Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-08-20 | 2017-08-22 → ↓
00:04 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-20#1701331 << for the curious http://linguafranca.mirror.theinfo.org/9209/culianu.html
00:04 a111 Logged on 2017-08-20 23:50 phf: one, Ioan Culianu, who was in turn killed in 91, some say over his criticism of romanian right, but of course we all know that he was dispatched by the occult interests over his research in that field.
~ 26 minutes ~
00:31 mircea_popescu hanbot yeah that's a point.
00:32 BingoBoingo Laments from the deaf http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=8704
00:34 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701361 << hey, it's not like herdemocracy happens on accident. insistently, persistently built why whole swathes of shitheads.
00:34 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 03:11 phf: and on and on and on. march of progress
00:36 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701362 << this probably captures the "stealing by name" pantsuit doctrine best.
00:36 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 03:13 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701357 << ftfy "ASDF __3__ was __re__designed to be self-upgradable __by me__ precisely so that etc"
00:38 mircea_popescu phf fwiw, culianu was actually killed by the national-socialist PCR (romanian communist party).
00:44 mircea_popescu anyway, eliade's iron guard affiliations are very far from a little known fact. i'd wager more people know about that than ever read any of his books, let alone understood such.
00:44 mircea_popescu and maitreyi is mandatory reading in highschool!
00:46 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo sounds more like dood is taking a (dramatic) vacation than anything.
00:56 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Likely he's in a high noise bubble
00:57 phf well, tbh i only just learned that the two knew each other. evola is mentioned in eliade's books, but only in connection to his books on subj, like "the yoga of power" and his study of pali canon
01:00 phf and the introductions to eliade's book don't go into apologism (unlike evola books, all the english translations require an mandatory disclaimer, that he was a racist, but only a little!1)
01:03 phf in other words i'm slowly discovering that there's life west of moscow, but before you hit berlin :o
~ 30 minutes ~
01:34 mircea_popescu lmao
01:36 mircea_popescu for the record, most of what orcs (ie, americans, russians, etc) think when they imagine "Great Ole European CULTURE!!" is actually exactly between moscow and berlin : 100% spritz and http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-09#1195397
01:36 a111 Logged on 2015-07-09 18:44 asciilifeform: !s царь-государь
01:37 mircea_popescu there was one major cultural power in the time uncultivated minds can furthest think back to, a time whose murmurs come to them through the great-grandparents, and that time wasn't napoleon 3's paris. it was vienna.
01:48 mircea_popescu phf also worth bearing in mind that point re introductions in the rothbard series. people more recent than the author daring to pen introductions are the exact equivalents of herostratus ; and to be treated no better.
~ 32 minutes ~
02:20 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/08/minor-pantsuit-apologizes-for-crime-against-trump/ << Qntra - Minor Pantsuit Apologizes For Crime Against Trump
02:21 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo wasn't serious, she put no btc on it.
02:22 BingoBoingo Well, zher democracy can't be that serious if they can't hold the line
02:22 mircea_popescu i thought that was the whole slippery point of zher, that there's a hole not a line.
02:23 BingoBoingo They can't even bend their own to follow the groupthink when targeted for the minute of hate
02:23 BingoBoingo Anyways, obeasts don't have proper holes. Gravity and all that.
02:23 mircea_popescu meanwhile in "no means yes" news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/21c5230f077f68c7f921beb9c304ffc9/tumblr_nwcnedWJl41thkzd8o1_500.gif
02:23 BingoBoingo Holes collapse on themselves
02:24 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo are you thinking of gas giants ?
02:24 BingoBoingo Means Means Anal!
02:24 BingoBoingo Hamplanets!
02:24 BingoBoingo Gas giants are what happens when you take hamplanets to Applebees
02:25 mircea_popescu lol
02:30 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/a-face-in-the-crowd/ << Trilema - A Face in the Crowd
02:31 BingoBoingo http://trilema.com/2017/the-story-of-friday/ << Remember
02:32 BingoBoingo Serious petrofood stink with those gas giants
02:35 BingoBoingo http://trilema.com/2017/a-face-in-the-crowd/#comment-122723 http://nation.foxnews.com/?q=health-care/2010/09/08/obamacare-destroys-andy-griffiths-approval-rating
02:40 mircea_popescu lol!
02:40 mircea_popescu eh wtf he cares, old fart with santa monica house.
02:41 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo amusingly, the "welfare state" / entitlement program is actually discussed in the film!
02:41 * BingoBoingo puts on list to see
02:41 mircea_popescu griffith is against. matthau comments importantly that "at least he has the courage of his ignorance".
02:41 BingoBoingo After tomorrow's obligatory watching of dragon consuming sun.
02:42 mircea_popescu matthau being a great actor and an utterly iconic libertard imbecile.
02:53 mircea_popescu and in other "us entrepreneurship" aka "the incredible productive assets and unlimited human ingenuity existing in America?", i give you https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyw3lZ8Jw7E
~ 4 hours 39 minutes ~
07:32 spyked phf, asciilifeform: re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-19#1701146 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-20#1701180 <-- thanks for all the refs. my initial plan was to start from whatever SECD papers I could find and better understand architecture specifics.
07:32 a111 Logged on 2017-08-19 23:57 phf: fwiw, if the goal is to put an existing lisp machine onto an fpga, then i don't think macivory is a particularly good target. the goal would be to run Genera, which is severely lacking sources for critical components.
07:32 a111 Logged on 2017-08-20 00:51 asciilifeform: failing this, could start with cadr and slowly backport bolix envir.
07:33 spyked also, is there any worth in trying to "physicalize" the virtual lisp machine stuff? genera runs on that from what I read.
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07:41 spyked !~later tell mircea_popescu re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-20#1701196 <-- yah, but does protecting the "proles" from own stupidity even make any sense as a statement? sorta relates to idea on Trilema on whether the empire wanted to arrive to this point (can't find it right now). enfranchisement of the stupid directly lead to that.
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07:41 a111 Logged on 2017-08-20 01:23 mircea_popescu: !~later tell spyked http://thetarpit.org/posts/y03/062-greenspan-assault-on-integrity.html << the problem with this view is that the pantsuits correctly intuit that all the imbeciles they enfranchised are sitll imbeciles. consequently it would be no harm to a business' reputation to sell them iguanas on a stick and call it prime beef. they will never know ; and casual perusal of tardstalk "investor" as well as "community disc
07:41 jhvh1 spyked: The operation succeeded.
07:45 spyked phf, slither.io is very similar to agar.io, which was similarly addictive back in the day. killed a lot of hours with it, so from that perspective, definitely wouldn't recommend trying it
07:53 spyked hey valentinbuza. you beat me to /join-ing #trilema. :)
07:54 spyked oh, btw
07:54 spyked !!rate mircea_popescu 4 master of three-lemmas, bludgeoner of sinners
07:54 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/7Ygyf/?raw=true
07:56 spyked !!v C629131A95F6D5771C913AE538CFB1B39FB07945A2BD411D3E2ED61EE9DE3A93
07:56 deedbot spyked rated mircea_popescu 4 << master of three-lemmas, bludgeoner of sinners
07:56 spyked !!rate asciilifeform 2 voice of sane computing
07:56 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/u3P5B/?raw=true
07:57 spyked !!v EA5F068678EEE9ECD16B49045910E1F3615062DDD3F9AAD21E52990B3F1F2980
07:57 deedbot spyked rated asciilifeform 2 << voice of sane computing
07:57 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701413 << to get the fuck off unix and pc. permanently.
07:57 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 11:33 spyked: also, is there any worth in trying to "physicalize" the virtual lisp machine stuff? genera runs on that from what I read.
07:57 asciilifeform rather than merely paper over them
07:59 asciilifeform a sane comp is a box with NO unix in it, anywhere.
08:00 spyked !!rate valentinbuza 3 fierce hacker, cracker with research mindset
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08:00 asciilifeform 1 level below, x86/arm/pci,sata,usb, etc play same role as unix and microshit -- accumulated layer of sewage
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08:00 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WNenm/?raw=true
08:01 spyked !!v 5D865AC4F5962CA4FBA83B49EA73346177A614AD1068AB4638006E5B90F145B1
08:01 deedbot spyked rated valentinbuza 3 << fierce hacker, cracker with research mindset
08:02 spyked asciilifeform, yeha agreed. was wondering whether it's worth using the virtual machine as a starting point.
08:02 asciilifeform inho not
08:02 spyked although I'm expecting the code to have its own hacks
08:03 asciilifeform *imho
08:03 asciilifeform for starters, it is buggy
08:04 asciilifeform ( as in - crashes )
08:04 asciilifeform whereas physical 'ivory' happily did multi year uptime
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08:05 spyked ok, so to sum up; 1. get ice40 fpga; 2. run fpga lisp machine (cadr?); work from that towards symbolics/ivory, or the other way around starting from symbolics.
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08:06 asciilifeform the other aspect, vlm is a massive bucket of c liquishit, and not at all a compact description of the arch
08:06 asciilifeform spyked: we have loooooong way to go - try and make a ddr controller first
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08:07 asciilifeform to do this, will need to make world's first ice40+ddr board -- none exist
08:07 asciilifeform and no , NOT a matter of 'take opencores hdl and port'
08:08 asciilifeform you gotta minimize the delay and specify gates MANUALLY for the specific fpga
08:10 asciilifeform after this, comes ethernet
08:10 spyked was trying to get a perspective on things. I haven't dabbled in hardware since 3rd uni year (that was almost 8 years ago). and even then... well, I got a lot to learn.
08:10 asciilifeform spyked: you will find that none of the existing literature is of any help
08:12 spyked asciilifeform, what do you think of minimal baremetal implementation of Lisp (RISC assembly only) on something like a MIPS core? I might be thinking this in too abstract terms, it's definitely not that easy. but I'm trying to find a middle way between working FPGA Lisp machine and Lisp on unix.
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08:13 spyked bbl
08:15 asciilifeform spyked: i tried this, it's a dead end because papers over idiot hardware rather than replaces. and does not yield hardware sovereignty-- you are at the mercy of the chipmaker's continued making of 100% compatible cpu & peripherals
08:17 asciilifeform and there must be NO non-taggedwords code physically anywhere in the machine.
08:18 asciilifeform and not a single flipflop of state that we didn't consciously put there.
08:18 * asciilifeform bbl
08:22 valentinbuza hi spyked. I just read the MP blog a week ago :) saw your old comments
08:23 asciilifeform spyked: i spend 7+ yrs on this approach, and my verdict is that 'middle way' is a DEAD END
08:24 asciilifeform you're welcome to spend 7 more. alternatively you can learn from my work.
08:24 asciilifeform a spoonful of unix in a barrel of honey -> barrel of shit .
~ 47 minutes ~
09:12 spyked asciilifeform, I see. I thought this would be a way to make the problem easier in the short/medium term. but I've had to deal with being at the mercy of X myself at another level so this makes sense.
~ 58 minutes ~
10:10 mod6 mornin'
10:10 asciilifeform heya mod6
10:10 mod6 how goes?
10:11 asciilifeform mod6: mostly snoar
10:11 mod6 werd
10:11 mod6 coffee time!
10:12 asciilifeform spyked: consider, the amount of arbitrary stupidity you import even ~by having pci bus~ is gargantuan
10:12 asciilifeform !#s dma
10:12 a111 89 results for "dma", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=dma
10:13 asciilifeform ^ some reading
10:13 asciilifeform and elsewhere, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-04#1694030 , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-04#1694068
10:13 a111 Logged on 2017-08-04 20:55 asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform took the chance made by the death of ssd in 'zoolag' to attempt netbsd. result : no boot. ( with or without 'no acpi' ) option, hangs at usb init.
10:13 a111 Logged on 2017-08-04 22:58 asciilifeform: possibly one could try building a netbsd that doesn't try to touch the usb chip at all. then enjoy setting up sans keyboard.
10:20 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
10:20 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4003.84, vol: 7627.72154380 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4018.3, vol: 30043.72095863 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4103.023498, vol: 11645.10190000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4019.978, vol: 4926.6004382 | Volume-weighted last average: 4034.60775192
10:21 BingoBoingo OMG, BRB: Dragon About To Consume Sun!
10:28 asciilifeform spyked: as for 'use off the shelf iron', see thread http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-04#1552690 and elsewhere.
10:28 a111 Logged on 2016-10-04 15:36 asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, PANZERS! pc engines 'apu2' (the board with the intel nics - vs. 'apu1', with realtek) , turns out, is crippled, hdt probe barfs with it, the cpu is reputed to have a drm fuse set.
10:28 asciilifeform see also the sad story of movitz
10:28 asciilifeform !#s movitz
10:28 a111 14 results for "movitz", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=movitz
10:41 spyked asciilifeform, lol, yeah, that's why I gave MIPS as an example. but actually, MIPS on FPGA + MIPS Lisp machine implementation might be more work than starting from CADR. that is, not even accounting for RAM and peripherals
10:41 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701443 << another little known fact, there are race conditions in genera itself, that manifest in higher clock environments.
10:41 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 12:04 asciilifeform: whereas physical 'ivory' happily did multi year uptime
10:42 spyked I'm still in the process of grokking the DMA+interrupts discussion.
10:43 phf i spent (mostly another whisperer and myself did) on getting vlm stable, and i'm unconvinced that some of the issues we encountered were purely "buggy vlm". there is, for example, a crash in floating point instruction that happens when you load document examiner on stock piratebay opengenera. i have no explanation for it still, because vlm code ~seems to do the right thing~. there are other similar instances
↖ ↖
10:48 asciilifeform spyked: forget mips
10:49 asciilifeform and other nontagged cpu.
10:49 asciilifeform they don't belong in the future.
10:49 asciilifeform phf: iron floatingpoint Must Die.
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10:49 phf now i didn't find out about race conditions myself, that data point came from dks, they discovered race conditions as part of the emulator rewrite, but they have the benefit of having access to the necessary low level bits
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10:50 asciilifeform ( and yes genera used it and yes you need it for historically accurate ivorytron. but dun belong in sanecomp. )
10:51 asciilifeform spyked: designing a reasonably sane ( a la 'scheme79' ) cpu is not actually the hard part.
10:51 asciilifeform reliable controller for usefully large ram, and peripherals ( the only strictly necessary periphs are nic and a reasonable ssd persistent storage )
10:51 asciilifeform are the hard part.
10:52 spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544148 <-- ah. precisely the discussion.
10:52 a111 Logged on 2016-09-17 17:05 phf: take movitz, take lice https://web.archive.org/web/20080624230234/http://www.emmett.ca/~sabetts/, add tcpip stack to it, add irc. what else one needs for tmsr-ing
10:53 asciilifeform spyked: didja miss the part where it runs on no modern nic ? or the thread where ALL modern nics are built to use dma, which gives the nic vendor access to every byte of your ram ?
10:53 spyked asciilifeform, yeah, it's right below phf's initial reply. the whole thing
10:54 asciilifeform sane comp is to be a fully granular description. i.e. if you can still get transistors, you can still build ENTIRE THING. no exceptions.
10:55 asciilifeform no magic 'available until we reversed it, then magically evaporates from market' chips.
10:56 asciilifeform ( as for 'ice' itself, if it were to vanish, we can have clones rolling off conveyor in 6mo or so for coupla hundred btc. not so for magical stateful nic etc )
10:57 spyked yeah, that makes sense.
10:59 asciilifeform phf: what you & dks et al observed is called complexity shitstack collapse.
10:59 asciilifeform it is not curable.
10:59 phf i still stand by this point, but with a disclaimer. i think that one of the advantages early hackers had was that they were working from inside their systems. linus was dogfooding linux, symbolics were using every lisp machine at their disposal to build better lisp machines. i think there's inherent folly in planning a revolution from the comfort of our bourgeois machines :p
11:00 asciilifeform phf: the notion is to build a box with sufficient ram, horse, capacity to drive xterm, so that you can sit down on it and edit the fpga config per se.
11:00 asciilifeform closing the ouroborus.
11:00 phf right, but you can already do that with, say, fpga cadr. it's not necessarily a shiny experience though
11:00 asciilifeform cadr sucks because it was designed around off the shelf alu and misc glue of the time.
11:01 asciilifeform nongranular.
11:01 asciilifeform the designers were crippled by the extreme transistorpoverty of the time.
11:03 asciilifeform there's NO reason to emulate, e.g., amd am2900, for all time.
11:04 phf sure, but chinual is extremely detailed and the ~architecture~ can be improved incrementaly. for example brad's cpu is, yes, implemented as an emulator for a discrete circuit. but at the same time it can be isolated from the bus, put into a determenistic harness, and rewritten from the cpu spec in chinual.
11:05 phf to some extent something like that was done in a transition from 36xx to ivory
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11:05 asciilifeform in other, slightly related lulz, http://www.vzpp-s.ru/production/catalog.pdf << ru clones of fairly recent altera fpga !!
11:05 phf i should clarify that rather architecture can be improved ~upon~ incrementaly
11:05 asciilifeform in production today.
11:05 asciilifeform suggests that d00dz have the spec ! somewhere.
11:06 asciilifeform phf: i am not convinced that cpu arch CAN be improved on incrementally.
11:06 asciilifeform the crud builds up, and you get x86-64.
11:06 phf pff, russian tech. spec is produced by kiril after sit in room with 2 fpga (such luxury, whole two!) and bread for three months
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11:07 asciilifeform 'для проектирования используется САПР ф.Altera − MAX+PLUS II или Quartus II' << pfff yea suggests brute force 'crystal, complete with 'when you care enough to steal the very best' easter egg banner' copy.
11:09 asciilifeform https://electronix.ru/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t68107.html << moar whiners >> 'Пообщался я тут немного с ребятами, которые эту ПЛИС уже некоторое время окучивают. В общем, впечатления не самые благостные. Обвяз для подключения на отечественных элементах занял примерно кор
11:09 asciilifeform пусов 20. Корпус выглядит отвратительно, выводы болтаются, отформовать нормально очень тяжело. Ну и на закуску - нумерация выводов НЕ СОВПАДАЕТ с фирменной альтеровской. Так что прежде чем рисовать схему я бы вам все-таки советовал попробов
11:09 asciilifeform ать получить хоть какую-то документацию официальным путем.'
11:16 * asciilifeform begins to suspect that these folx simply got a hold of american raw dies and make a killing mounting them in sov-era specced ceramic cases with gold pins, and calling it 'new production'
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11:17 asciilifeform ( in modern ru mil production chain, they still mandate ancient orcish pinouts and case dimensions, supposedly to prevent substitution with cheap imported chip with name sanded off )
11:17 asciilifeform examtakers -- optimize for examgrade.
11:17 asciilifeform today just as in ancient china.
11:19 phf i suspect there's still some amount of conformance with GOST. i personally think it could be a good practice if done right, but reading some usg account of it i can see how it can be turned into bureaucratic money maker
11:20 asciilifeform the orc packaging ain't a problem, imho it is The Right Thing to ban western smt spec
11:20 asciilifeform the problem is that it does not suffice to keep the producer honest.
11:21 asciilifeform ( and there is no way to verify that the chip was actually reversed, and produced in ru -- other than to present the specs, and a native clean toolchain ! but catalogue says 'use quartus from altera' )
11:21 asciilifeform now it is ~possible~ that the spec is disinfo, and in basement of kgb there is a rewritten alteratronic chain. but imho unlikely.
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11:22 asciilifeform either way, it helps us not a whit, these items dun seem to be any moar obtainable than 'elbrus'.
11:23 asciilifeform briefly thought 'hey they cloned altera, the specs must now be on the net somewhere'. turns out -- apparently no.
11:23 phf The Secrets of Meta-NSA by what's that guy from yesterday
11:24 asciilifeform culianu lol
11:24 phf hehe
11:25 asciilifeform incidentally in as far as i can tell, d00d was solzhenitsining for decade+, and very actively Musting Die from a very defensible imho pov
11:25 asciilifeform classic 'orc intellectual in emigration'
11:26 asciilifeform imho it is strange that the contract on him had to wait until ceaucescu dead
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11:31 phf right, i didn't even comment on that aspect, because everything should be obvious from that article i linked.
11:40 asciilifeform dunno re obvious -- but it is strongly suggested
~ 4 hours 27 minutes ~
16:07 BingoBoingo !~bcstats
16:07 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 481539 | Current Difficulty: 9.23233068448E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 481823 | Next Difficulty In: 284 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 13 hours, 22 minutes, and 53 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
16:07 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
16:07 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4006.43, vol: 8737.86217624 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4017.1, vol: 29708.56397392 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4095.153, vol: 13610.99210000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4035.231, vol: 4765.27338535 | Volume-weighted last average: 4035.67611666
16:09 BingoBoingo Today's adventure into the path of totality was very worthwhile, especially over merely vieing partial phase of eclipse. Based on traffic, traveling to the centerline of totality zone seems like it would have offered little additional benefit.
~ 1 hours 8 minutes ~
17:18 asciilifeform !~later tell spyked http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701446 >> on second thought, you probably could put this chore off, olimex sells a ice40-8k (largest available) with 512k of sram glued on. and this is theoretically enough to prototype . the more pressing matter is ethernet. ( afaik nobody sells an ice40 + ethernetmagnetics . and just as with ddr dram, answer is 'lattice wants you to use their larger fpgas, with THEIR toolchain'
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17:18 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 12:06 asciilifeform: spyked: we have loooooong way to go - try and make a ddr controller first
17:18 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
17:18 asciilifeform )
17:22 * asciilifeform just unpacked one of ^ units
17:23 spyked asciilifeform, was going to ask. is there particular ice40 you're recommending? it might be a while until I get one but I looked over the list and they had various types (ultralite etc.)
17:23 asciilifeform ( for n00bz : no, you can't breadboard at 100MHz. gotta have actual board. )
17:23 asciilifeform spyked: for n00bs i recommend 'icestick'
17:23 asciilifeform it has the programmator built in
17:23 asciilifeform and usb uart.
17:23 asciilifeform so no fiddling with wires, programmator dongles, etc. needed.
17:24 asciilifeform but the only ram you get is the 32k of sram on the crystal.
17:27 spyked so from ^ the "ultra"er models don't work with the open source toolchain? I was looking at one of the breakout boards earlier
17:27 asciilifeform 'icestick' is readily available for 10-20 usd wherever protojunk is sold
17:27 asciilifeform spyked: only the ice40 series
17:27 asciilifeform it has a plain matrix-of-LUTs structure, no built-in periphs
17:28 asciilifeform which made it a realistic reversing target, and it was apparently successfully reversed.
17:28 asciilifeform if you're used to working with, e.g., xilinx 'spartan' or 'virtex' series, it will feel VERY tight.
17:29 asciilifeform ( but, i will point out, is MUCH roomier than the xc9572 cpld used in FUCKGOATS )
17:30 * spyked hates xilinx with passion. if only because of the bloated software
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17:31 asciilifeform i last leeched the xilinx hog in 2011 and don't intend to ever update.
17:32 asciilifeform i will be phasing xilinx out of my product line entirely, also.
17:33 asciilifeform ice40 leaves a great deal to be desired ( it is VERY small, comparatively, and doesn't come in a no-flash version, and who knows for how long it will remain in print ) but is by far the closest thing that currently exists to the sane fpga.
17:38 spyked this is gonna be fun. asciilifeform, I haven't looked into hw since 2010, so there might be stupid questions coming your way once I start playing with this. btw, I don't mind getting my hands dirty with soldering, I just have very rudimentary tools for now.
17:38 asciilifeform spyked: unless you are VERY well-equipped, you will not be soldering ice40.
17:39 asciilifeform ( iirc the smallest package is a pqfp-64 )
17:39 asciilifeform largest, that is.
17:39 asciilifeform ( physically )
17:48 asciilifeform the 8k ( largest gate count ) is sold ONLY in bga.
17:48 asciilifeform https://www.digikey.com/products/en/integrated-circuits-ics/embedded-fpgas-field-programmable-gate-array/696?k=ice40&k=&pkeyword=ice40&pv1328=i960&FV=ffe002b8&mnonly=0&ColumnSort=-457&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25 << e.g.
17:50 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2B39A2F2FE4458177B4359D74EFD1A7A27CFA0B063D5815391C525882628EE98 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1419...0413 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '72.249.82.103 (ssh-rsa key from 72.249.82.103 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www.tlakeenterprises.com. US MO)
17:50 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2B39A2F2FE4458177B4359D74EFD1A7A27CFA0B063D5815391C525882628EE98 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1741...8967 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '72.249.82.103 (ssh-rsa key from 72.249.82.103 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www.tlakeenterprises.com. US MO)
17:51 asciilifeform ^ http://www.usapublicdata.com/business/cAbAbk/ << lulz, usg
17:52 asciilifeform !~later tell BingoBoingo https://archive.is/12eLH << qntra fodder ?
17:52 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
17:52 asciilifeform 'Ten US Navy sailors are missing after a US Navy guided-missile destroyer collided with an oil tanker east of Singapore early Monday, the fourth accident in Asian waters involving a US warship in 2017'
17:52 asciilifeform 'USS John S. McCain' didjaknow.
↖
17:54 asciilifeform 'The McCain is named for the father and grandfather of US Sen. John McCain.' lol!!
17:56 BingoBoingo ty asciilifeform
18:06 asciilifeform spyked: you don't need to re-voice unless you got unvoiced (typically from connection reset)
18:07 spyked thanks for the tip. didn't know, initially thought there was a time limit for that
18:07 asciilifeform spyked: nope, that's only for guests who get manually up'd by someone.
18:07 spyked anyway, I ordered three icesticks (because free shipping, and would rather pay for extra hardware than shipping)
18:09 asciilifeform yea they're 'party favour' cheap
18:22 hanbot say, where's the current list of trb nodes? http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html << accurate?
↖
18:23 asciilifeform hanbot: the 1st two are mine ( #1 -- zoolag, which is midway through a resyncing, on account of a dead ssd ; 2nd is dulap, which is humming along )
18:24 asciilifeform the rest, i have nfi
18:24 asciilifeform trinque's deedbot may be one of the remaining
↖
18:24 asciilifeform ( ask him re current ip )
18:26 asciilifeform iirc jurov has a working node in europe somewhere
18:26 ben_vulpes hanbot: .77 is mine
18:26 hanbot yeah, ty. i wonder if it wouldn't be wise to update that list monthly as part of reporting etc.
↖
18:26 hanbot aha
18:26 asciilifeform and BingoBoingo possibly also
18:26 asciilifeform hanbot: imho that'd be spiffy
18:28 asciilifeform iirc mircea_popescu has at least 1 public node
18:29 asciilifeform and possibly somebody else also ( shinohai ? )
18:31 asciilifeform i don't much like the phrase 'trusted nodes', when you connect to trb node, you get plaintext tcp, and 0 guarantees re who or what you're actually talking to.
↖
18:32 ben_vulpes republican outposts in the sea of shit
18:33 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: via mitmtron
18:35 ben_vulpes world is a fuck
18:35 asciilifeform chronically very frustrated enemy, in tilt, and he does whatever he can with his few hammers. in this case it happens to be slowing tx propagation.
18:36 asciilifeform ( several cases documented in the logs, by mircea_popescu and others )
18:36 asciilifeform all of the pattern 'have you seen this tx?' 'no...' 'but i sent it to your node and got an ack'
↖
18:36 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-21#1701601 << correct, 3rd item
18:36 a111 Logged on 2017-08-21 22:24 asciilifeform: trinque's deedbot may be one of the remaining
18:44 asciilifeform !~later tell ben_vulpes was it you who had a trb patch abolishing the idiotic truncation of block and tx hashes in debug.log ? where did it go ?
18:44 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
18:45 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: 'tis sitting in my workdir, did not imagine it to be useful to others
18:46 ben_vulpes or hm where did it go
18:46 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> and BingoBoingo possibly also << Yes, ip available to qualified inquirers
18:46 ben_vulpes anyways, trivial 2-liner
18:46 ben_vulpes if it were to be vpatched, it should abolish truncation everywhere in the codebase
18:47 ben_vulpes i struggle to imagine the poverty of system that behavior was intended to be useful on
↖
18:47 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: iirc it's 15-20 lines ( all ~same snip tho, in each, of the truncation )
18:47 ben_vulpes sounds right by my recollection
18:47 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: if you find it, plox to repost
18:48 ben_vulpes aye aye
~ 21 minutes ~
19:09 BingoBoingo Does anyone remember mp's piece on trilema where he talks about the capital crime of whiny bitch aggressing beyond his station?
19:11 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/08/us-warship-named-for-minor-dynasty-suffers-casualties-after-aggressing-against-30000-ton-ten-knot-commercial-vessel/ << Qntra - US Warship Named For Minor Dynasty Suffers Casualties After Aggressing Against 30,000 Ton, Ten Knot Commercial Vessel
19:14 BingoBoingo ^ ty alf
~ 36 minutes ~
19:50 asciilifeform !~later tell phf http://journal.iea.ras.ru/online/2008/EOO2008_4e.pdf << entomological various re culianu
19:50 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
19:57 asciilifeform !~later tell phf https://archive.is/fGAO9 << even moar entomologically, even higher quotient of crackpottery, but imho entertaining, re culianu.
19:57 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
20:03 asciilifeform !~later tell BingoBoingo https://archive.is/Repd7 << qntrafodder
20:03 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
20:04 asciilifeform 'man has been arrested for allegedly trying to plant explosives on a Confederate statue in Houston'
20:05 asciilifeform https://archive.is/a0McS << in same rag, photo of 'fender bendered' ship
20:05 asciilifeform or hm, nm, prev. ship
~ 57 minutes ~
21:03 mod6 evenin
21:04 mod6 <+hanbot> say, where's the current list of trb nodes? http://thebitcoin.foundation/trusted-nodes.html << accurate? << I do update it as people tell me.
21:10 mod6 To all who have nodes on this list: Please update ben_vulpes or myself if the IP or status changes of your node. Thank you.
~ 19 minutes ~
21:29 pete_dushenski hanbot: mine is fourth down on the 'trusted node' list
21:29 pete_dushenski !~later tell mircea_popescu yo back! :D
21:29 jhvh1 pete_dushenski: The operation succeeded.
21:31 pete_dushenski no one wants to dump bch / bcc eh ? weird. thought there'd be a line-up out the door. then again, maybe y'all already been there done that and my brokerage offer is late to the party ?
↖
21:32 pete_dushenski !#s felix salmon
21:32 a111 4 results for "felix salmon", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=felix%20salmon
21:32 mod6 and then http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-05#1497552
21:32 a111 Logged on 2016-07-05 22:17 trinque: mod6: 172.86.178.46 << deedbot
21:32 mod6 and that makes up the whole list.
21:34 pete_dushenski http://archive.is/LpbwN << "Are rich people presumptively bad?" is some grade aaa trolling. highly recommended for entemologists.
21:34 mod6 pete_dushenski: maybe people wanna short, gotta give these things time maybe 'eh?
21:34 pete_dushenski "ultimately, the only way that philanthropy is really going to be able to shed its aura of noxious elitism is if the rich give up the reins of control, and allow the poor to make many, many more allocative decisions." << i lolled
↖
21:35 pete_dushenski mod6: i'm just teasin' :)
21:35 mod6 ah, werd
21:37 pete_dushenski but i was as surprised as mike_c (to whom, wb btw!) that the bch --> btc market actually came through, at least for triple-digit btc sums. obv can't speak to mp-level six- or seven-digit sums.
21:38 mod6 ripe for the pickin' eh
21:38 pete_dushenski sure seems like it!
21:40 pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: a comment of mine on your latest blog post got scarfed, just a heads up in case you're not checking for pending comments regularly, or it got lost in spamola foldola.
21:42 pete_dushenski in other nodes, my latest 0-fullheight trb sync experiment was completed in a hair under two weeks. nb i say!
↖
21:42 mike_c !~bcstats
21:42 jhvh1 mike_c: Current Blocks: 481571 | Current Difficulty: 9.23233068448E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 481823 | Next Difficulty In: 252 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 4 hours, 6 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
21:42 mod6 pete_dushenski: hey, nice!
21:42 mike_c hi pete!
21:42 mod6 maybe that's encouraging news for mike_c who just started his sync adventure
21:43 ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: approved, ty
21:43 mike_c I'm at 292908
21:43 mod6 cool
21:43 pete_dushenski though i'll be damned if i can gather why it is that -connect'ing to 2+ nodes jams up every few hours whereas just 1 node sync beautifully with no issues for days on end.
↖
21:44 pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: cheers mate
21:45 pete_dushenski mod6: ya, it was ~half the time of the last 0-fullheight trb sync i tried maybe 18 months ago, but that was on hdd and this was on ssd :)
21:45 mike_c asciilifeform: I got some goats in the mail today. ty.
↖
21:46 mod6 pete_dushenski: yeah ssd helps
21:48 pete_dushenski http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-04#1693691 << re "car wheel drm" can't say i've ever lost one of the "special" nuts myself but they are indeed a thing and it's not overly surprising that the shops won't sell you new ones but if you just drop your car off there, flip them a $50 or whatever, i'm sure they can take care of it. or, y'know, just know a guy.
21:48 a111 Logged on 2017-08-04 03:21 ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: might know more
21:49 pete_dushenski mod6: hugely. i've now got a small stockpile of 'em seeing as asciilifeform is a few years ahead of the curve and is already reporting on their 2yrish lifespans. might as well have some on hand.
↖ ↖
21:50 mod6 werd, was helpful info indeed.
21:59 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701677 << congrats mike_c !
21:59 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 01:45 mike_c: asciilifeform: I got some goats in the mail today. ty.
22:00 asciilifeform mike_c: be sure to test'em
22:01 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701681 << be sure to enable 'trim'
22:01 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 01:49 pete_dushenski: mod6: hugely. i've now got a small stockpile of 'em seeing as asciilifeform is a few years ahead of the curve and is already reporting on their 2yrish lifespans. might as well have some on hand.
22:01 asciilifeform extends life 1.5-2x
22:02 asciilifeform ( put trimfs as daily cron job )
22:04 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701650 << i cannot speak for other folx but possibly i'm not the only one who isn't eager to divulge all-his-btc-addrs ( much as we like pete_dushenski , picture, say , his iron were to be stolen, ect)
22:04 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 01:31 pete_dushenski: no one wants to dump bch / bcc eh ? weird. thought there'd be a line-up out the door. then again, maybe y'all already been there done that and my brokerage offer is late to the party ?
22:04 asciilifeform *etc
22:04 asciilifeform dumping shitforkolade is in that sense a very private work, more than, say, proctology
22:05 mike_c trimfs, will do. thanks
22:07 asciilifeform alternatively can mount some fs ( e.g. ext4 ) with 'discard' flag, same thing
22:07 asciilifeform ( but continuous, at slight write speed penalty )
22:07 asciilifeform trimfs on other hand is a batch util, grinds disk to a halt for 10s or so
22:08 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: what means 'his'-btc-addrs ?
22:08 asciilifeform grrrrr fstrim
22:08 asciilifeform not trimfs
22:09 asciilifeform fstrim !
↖
22:09 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: consider what is involved in selling-all-your-forkolade
22:09 pete_dushenski who said anything about all ?
22:10 asciilifeform why the fuck would i want to keep any.
22:10 pete_dushenski let's just start with some, neh ?
22:10 pete_dushenski i dunno man, you're the one keeping is ~all~
22:10 asciilifeform lol
22:10 pete_dushenski it*
22:10 asciilifeform if i go through the bother of setting up the furnace, i'm certainly burning all.
22:12 pete_dushenski as the kids these days say, you do you man, you do you.
22:12 asciilifeform but i dun see how you could use someone else's help in this exercise, without disclosing your inner rectal seekritz.
22:13 pete_dushenski no different than paying for fg 'discloses your inner rectal seekritz'
22:13 asciilifeform mno
22:13 pete_dushenski coins gotta come from somewhere, go somewhere else
22:14 asciilifeform disclosing privs to empty addrs proves ownership to whoever finds them.
↖
22:14 * pete_dushenski quietly imagines that asciilifeform 's seekrit is that he's bigger holder than... mp!
22:14 asciilifeform lol
22:18 pete_dushenski but how would anyone but me know where the empty privkeys come from ? let's say i hand them off to another guy, who has no idea where they come from but via me, and then he sells on xchange, and then btc gets funneled back to you, what then ? when inquisitor comes (which he won't because he can't or he already would've) do all three of us own coins because we've each seen privkeys ?
22:18 asciilifeform because somebody somewhere would totally do that
22:18 asciilifeform pass privs to pig who passes to cow who passes to duck who.
22:19 asciilifeform and inquisitors apparently have iq of a broken dish and always give up at first chance, also...
22:19 pete_dushenski bbiab
22:20 asciilifeform also gotta say that the notion that pete_dushenski would subcontract out a job involving privkeys, is not very good advertisement for his service...
22:22 asciilifeform imho this hypothetical exercise falls under the banner of Do. Not. Share. Privkeyz. With. Anyone. It. Never. Ends. Well.
↖
22:22 asciilifeform not with mother, father, brother, fucktoy, nobody.
22:22 asciilifeform it's called 'priv' for a reason.
22:31 asciilifeform sharing privkeys, for any reason at all, is quite like sharing syringe needles
22:32 asciilifeform but with the added feature that it sets up a permanent wormhole between the sharers -- he gets hiv 20yrs later? now you do too.
22:39 asciilifeform putting your cock in the mains socket, is both wiser , more +ev, more pleasant, and less of a screaming abuse of the equipment and of the entire discipline that produced it, than sharing private keys.
22:39 asciilifeform even to 'empty' addr ( would you share an 'old' pgp key?! )
22:45 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-22#1701681 << before i fughet -- i will also point out, all else being equal , a ssd that is larger relative to the size of the blockchain -- will die more slowly ( trim MUST work for this to hold )
22:45 a111 Logged on 2017-08-22 01:49 pete_dushenski: mod6: hugely. i've now got a small stockpile of 'em seeing as asciilifeform is a few years ahead of the curve and is already reporting on their 2yrish lifespans. might as well have some on hand.
22:45 asciilifeform more ssdblocks total -> fewer writes per block per hour -> slower death
22:47 asciilifeform this being said, even respectably thick (500+ GB) ssd will burn out long before it fills.
22:48 asciilifeform it may prove more economical to run spinning disks with slice raid, vs ssd.
↖
22:48 asciilifeform though to date i've found the cost, to be similar.
22:49 asciilifeform and ssd is considerably more pleasant to have around in close quarters, and doesn't lead you to dive into machine cellar to swap dying drives bimonthly
22:50 asciilifeform ssd also more , obviously, compact, and lower current. e.g. zoolag is approx the size of my fist. and runs from a wall wart.
22:51 asciilifeform outperforms dulap, which eats half a kw or so .
~ 22 minutes ~
23:13 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> dumping shitforkolade is in that sense a very private work, more than, say, proctology << AHA, balance of bleeding!
~ 23 minutes ~
23:36 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: "another guy" can be read as no more than bch walletolade manufacturer. glhf auditing the code of the extant heaps required to sweep privkeys and send bch to xchange.
23:37 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: as i understand it's a couplea line patch to trb
23:37 asciilifeform ( 2mb and whatevers )
23:37 asciilifeform to sit down on the phorq
23:38 asciilifeform but ftr asciilifeform has not, personally, yet tried this.
23:39 asciilifeform i ain't putting privkeys ( even 'old' ones ) in a networkedclosedturd . for same reasons as i will not be sending them to whoever.
23:39 pete_dushenski mkay.
23:50 BingoBoingo So, Trump gave an Afghanistan speech where he promised to not talk about Afghanistan specifics. Also “We are not nation-building again, we are killing terrorists”
23:52 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> to sit down on the phorq << And once sat down on phork there is problem of who to talk to among the AWS sybils.
23:59 pete_dushenski !!key whaack
23:59 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/6326273b61a700af4cd95a7b8c6cab1924a64dec.asc
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