Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-07-17 | 2017-07-19 → ↓
00:27 BingoBoingo !!up punto
00:27 deedbot punto voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 24 minutes ~
00:51 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/668C9FD96F37AB8D564361C2DEEFE384CB10FBA941E794FAEF3166E9F2E159E7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1481...9079 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '217.141.129.51 (ssh-rsa key from 217.141.129.51 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host51-129-static.141-217-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT)
00:51 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/668C9FD96F37AB8D564361C2DEEFE384CB10FBA941E794FAEF3166E9F2E159E7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1566...1343 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '217.141.129.51 (ssh-rsa key from 217.141.129.51 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host51-129-static.141-217-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT)
00:51 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DC88B93752A72CE2F1E7537866EAD30B23F92A47E335E010486C735210A33A41 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1470...3053 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '89.110.156.63 (ssh-rsa key from 89.110.156.63 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (lucy.byrei.de. DE)
00:51 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DC88B93752A72CE2F1E7537866EAD30B23F92A47E335E010486C735210A33A41 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1594...4317 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '89.110.156.63 (ssh-rsa key from 89.110.156.63 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (lucy.byrei.de. DE)
01:03 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
01:04 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2225.0, vol: 27624.25877228 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2168.0, vol: 9172.94514 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2187.2, vol: 40989.87519083 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2234.845746, vol: 14348.85940000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2183.258, vol: 13560.2812637 | Volume-weighted last average: 2201.37537846
01:04 BingoBoingo OMG RECRASHING
01:04 mircea_popescu o noes i bought at 1950 should i sell ???
01:05 BingoBoingo I dunno must consult WAPO
01:06 mircea_popescu i only did it to get ethereum tokens
01:06 BingoBoingo WAPO Returns headline: "Swole Jeff Bezos Is Exactly the Meme the World Needed"
01:06 mircea_popescu are still available do ytou know ?
01:07 mircea_popescu could bezos swole russia ?
01:07 BingoBoingo Apparently according to his fake news outlet: "Most people know that online firearm sales create big loopholes that allow customers to bypass background checks—but who knew e-commerce pioneer Jeff Bezos was hawking guns like these?! The Amazon CEO and Washington Post owner showed up to an Idaho conference in a skintight T-shirt last week, displaying a set of arms most reasonable observers would classify as assault weapons."
01:08 mircea_popescu o we're down to "most people know" ? i thought usg shares were firmly at "everyone knows" ?
01:08 BingoBoingo Well, gotta probe vanity publishing ass further: "Bezos used to be a giant baby-faced, Kevin-Spacey-faced nerd who sold textbooks on a website and looked ecstatic merely to be alive. Now, he’s buying up bougie grocery stores and publishing a newspaper with a metal-ass tagline. He’s in the putting businesses out of business business, and he’s got the muscle and shaved head to prove it."
01:09 BingoBoingo Apparently pantsuits like to give the rimjob to the boss?
01:09 mircea_popescu did the guy's payola mcnuggets & happy meals not make it this month or wtf is their problem.
01:10 BingoBoingo Apparently they are sexually harassing the boss to get him fired? Or mebbe he used owning a newspaper to ghostwrite the thing.
01:16 asciilifeform lolwat, his own rag printed this?!
01:16 mircea_popescu see how independent it is ?
01:16 BingoBoingo Yes, and in 18 months Trump will go from equalling Bezos in Senator count to clearly passing Bezos
01:16 BingoBoingo So many Turkeys!!!
01:18 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: You gotta read it for what it is, appeal to his re-adolescent ego.
01:18 BingoBoingo i.e. Bezos is on Trenbolone
01:19 asciilifeform wai would a richd00d take ballshrinkelixir
01:20 mircea_popescu wai would he wear a tshirt.
01:20 BingoBoingo Because Bezos sees pantsuit in disarray and wants to become a bull in move to capture pantsuit for self instead of being its bitch boy
01:21 mircea_popescu the "appear hamplanet harmless" ploy not even bad approach to that goal.
01:21 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> wai would a richd00d take ballshrinkelixir << Apparently some users find shrank balls more comfortable, also HCG can be used to preven the shrink
01:23 mircea_popescu gives "going to the shrink" a whole new layer.
01:30 BingoBoingo Anyways wears shirt because horrifying cystic acne. t-shirt because cotton is absorbent
01:35 * BingoBoingo predicts trend of pantsuit boy CEO's getting into this sort of artificial masculinity and calling it "biohacking"
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01:35 mircea_popescu i can see it.
01:36 mircea_popescu the other half of the faux dilemma. "transsexual or biohacker ?"
01:36 mircea_popescu "gotta pick one or the other!"
01:36 BingoBoingo It's a trilema: transexual, biohacker, or transmayo unsexual
01:36 mircea_popescu no that's the faux dilemma for females.
01:37 mircea_popescu "lich or greaseblob ? MUST PICK ONE!!1"
01:37 BingoBoingo Nah, it's the third gender
01:37 mircea_popescu they're all tired fucking genders.
01:38 BingoBoingo Nah, trenbolone isn't lich sort of thing. Definitely a "burn brighter, faster" sort of thing. Cattle feedlot stuff.
01:39 BingoBoingo Gotta get the steers to put on size without getting tough
01:39 mircea_popescu ic
01:40 BingoBoingo A marginally life shortening "Who wants to be 90 anyways" deal
01:41 BingoBoingo Essentially boosting the engine's compression without upgrading the plumbing, promotes cardiac and psychiatric deaths
01:44 BingoBoingo In the feedlot the doped of course are in supermarket before those outcomes can happen.
01:44 mircea_popescu i kinda like the idea tbh.
01:45 mircea_popescu gotta cut the total male-years somehow, and chem cockcage prolly even cheaper than the steel item.
01:46 BingoBoingo Of all the fake testosterones, Tren is the one that doesn't require supplementing with testosterone in order to allow boners, so popular. Does work as male birth control though.
01:47 mircea_popescu can i donate so usians take this stuff ?
01:47 BingoBoingo Not yet.
01:48 mircea_popescu gotta get some free tren clinics going.
01:48 mircea_popescu it seems to me like it'd be a human right.
01:49 BingoBoingo Well, there's manosphere community corners that promote the artificial testosteroning as the exact thing girly birth control is. Except with cool weight gain.
01:49 trinque seems pretty gay, according to my brief googling. wall of faggy before / after pics.
01:49 BingoBoingo Anyways, it doesn't actually do magic swole imparting without at least some exercise.
01:49 mircea_popescu obviously, that'd be the idea.
01:49 trinque in that, best and lulziest eugenics
01:49 BingoBoingo trinque: Bodybuilding is super gay
01:50 BingoBoingo brb, sleep
01:51 trinque BingoBoingo: better wash out your mind's eye first with !#s in other news
01:52 mircea_popescu lol! in other speaking of whiches, http://68.media.tumblr.com/4ffab76fa0593af3ad614a5c1d1abf82/tumblr_ogvolangKO1ubsampo1_1280.jpg
01:52 trinque ah ah that's cheating!
01:53 mircea_popescu you think ? she looks just like duly owned property.
01:57 trinque nah I meant the segue variation; we're gonna need one of those google AIs nao
01:57 * trinque to bed also
01:57 mircea_popescu "p
~ 7 hours 30 minutes ~
09:28 asciilifeform http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170718/#143 << they're already 'eltsining' to death , with the good old bottle, no fancy dope needed necessarily
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09:28 scriba Logged on 2017-07-18: [05:45:01] <mircea_popescu> gotta cut the total male-years somehow, and chem cockcage prolly even cheaper than the steel item.
~ 25 minutes ~
09:54 shinohai http://archive.is/kBvoX <<< "We'll just roll back the chain, s'all good"
~ 35 minutes ~
10:30 mod6 mornin'
10:33 shinohai heya mod6
10:38 mod6 how goes today?
10:42 shinohai Not bad, another hot day already ... catching up on some reading, you?
10:45 shinohai !!up William_4042
10:45 deedbot William_4042 voiced for 30 minutes.
10:47 mod6 shinohai: yeah, been hot up here. horrid lately actually.
~ 2 hours 23 minutes ~
13:10 mircea_popescu meanwhile in gypsy looks, http://68.media.tumblr.com/2f7734de724346e85ecace86ffba0708/tumblr_ob1fscaSfj1v8ing6o1_1280.jpg
13:17 shinohai Buenas tardes Sr. Popescu
13:29 mircea_popescu hola. tho it's morn here.
13:39 shinohai Ah rite, you guys are 2 hours behind me ... (Stupid DST)
13:39 mircea_popescu :p
13:40 shinohai It is I, shinohai ....IM FROM TEH FUTURE1111
13:40 mircea_popescu ahaha
13:43 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/86CCDA0D8AEF376579A2C392E7C6DBB78E9EBDC78C7C454DFF90BF14183490AE << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1522...9987 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '81.19.55.234 (ssh-rsa key from 81.19.55.234 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown GB)
13:43 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/86CCDA0D8AEF376579A2C392E7C6DBB78E9EBDC78C7C454DFF90BF14183490AE << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1775...1423 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '81.19.55.234 (ssh-rsa key from 81.19.55.234 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown GB)
~ 16 minutes ~
13:59 BingoBoingo In other news, Trump's going to let Obamacare come to natural death and wait for new Senate after 2018 mid term. GOP primary season will now be VERY interesting.
13:59 mircea_popescu indeed
14:00 mircea_popescu correct play, too. he really has no interest in putting in the work to try and salvage the nonsense ; and the pantsuits will have a hell of a time arguing that "we put on the books laws that don't work because we expect they can be constantly patched as a matter of course -- and this is fine"
14:01 mircea_popescu next time -- write bugless code.
14:01 BingoBoingo Also there's more entertainers expressing interest in GOP contests. Pantsuit entertainers have horrid general election track record. GOP side though... Trumpreich.
14:01 mircea_popescu aha.
14:01 mircea_popescu hey, who knew conventionally-funny comics suck.
14:02 BingoBoingo And most GOP entertainers also value their brand enough to not sink it over giving mouth hugs to mommy state.
14:02 mircea_popescu that part remains to be seen. mebbe.
14:03 BingoBoingo Well, pantsuit has... Al Franken. GOP has Reagan, Sonny Bono, Etc.
14:03 mircea_popescu did he grab cher's pussy ?
14:04 BingoBoingo No idea, twat a different time. Hard to tell from that age's dense forests.
14:04 mircea_popescu lolz
14:05 BingoBoingo Pantsuit McCaskill is not seeking re-election in Missouri. Governor Greitens hasn't declared candidacy yet, but appears to be campaigning.
14:05 mircea_popescu was schwarzy republican or democrat in california ? i forget.
14:05 BingoBoingo Republican
14:06 BingoBoingo Well, GOP. No true Republicans get elected in the US. Not since Jefferson allegedly sired hundreds of farm implements himself.
14:07 mircea_popescu aha
14:07 mircea_popescu you know, back then it was the DEMOCRAT party running the poor-but-white blacks-are-farm-implements tickets.
14:08 BingoBoingo Switch happened in the 1950's through the 1970's. George Wallace was the last
14:11 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1685822 << i'm not sure what happened. i initially misdiagnosed the issue, and lost the state necessary to figure out alternatives. i'm pretty sure though that the configuration parameters got reset (how??) and the bot was happily sitting on a random test channel
14:11 a111 Logged on 2017-07-18 01:00 mircea_popescu: phf is a111 sick ?
14:12 mircea_popescu weird
14:12 BingoBoingo phf: Have you tried "beefing" a111 up with some Tren? Apparently works for AWS
14:12 asciilifeform phf: is that a usual fallback ?
14:12 asciilifeform ( test chan )
14:14 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170718/#143 << they're already 'eltsining' to death , with the good old bottle, no fancy dope needed necessarily << Not really, cars are too safe nowadays. With crumple zones it is hard to die as a drunk driver and the other alcoholic deaths take time. Also many of them ain't wired right to properly drink selves to death. Somehow their brains signal "drunk enough" and then they stop, I have no
14:14 scriba Logged on 2017-07-18: [05:45:01] <mircea_popescu> gotta cut the total male-years somehow, and chem cockcage prolly even cheaper than the steel item.
14:14 BingoBoingo idea how these aliens work.
14:15 mircea_popescu ^ word. i have seen kids drink these days. a) it's all beer and b) they think slightly buzzed = plastered.
14:15 mircea_popescu vast majority of female teenagers who go to school that i've encountered past years have never been drunk.
14:15 phf asciilifeform: so test chan is hard written in code, in a defvar, but there's a config (essentially a setq ...) that's supposed to override it. the config was missing (which i ~vaguely~ remember maybe accidentally doing myself). so in any case defvar should've stayed consistent no matter what. i'm not sure ~how~ it could get reset without a complete reload of an instance or an explicit setq
14:16 mircea_popescu phf really the only important knob after such event is to be able to set "likely bug" or "likely messed with".
14:17 asciilifeform phf: completereload (i.e. uininvited power cycle?) seems likely
14:18 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> ^ word. i have seen kids drink these days. a) it's all beer and b) they think slightly buzzed = plastered. << Fuckers were also sober when arriving to bar
14:18 phf asciilifeform: nah, definitely not. there's too much state in "screen", that's been the same since forever.
14:19 phf it's weird enough that i'm going to spin up a new btcbase instance. this would be a really weird way to mess with it (why not nuke everything, etc.) and i'm sure i could've done something carelessly a while ago, and the things only now caught up, but i'd rather not experiment further.
14:19 mircea_popescu the "really weird way" argument is not very productive because enemy is both inept and fearful.
14:19 mircea_popescu that's when people do really weird things.
14:20 asciilifeform log bot seems like a pathetic choice of target, also
14:20 mircea_popescu depends if you're trying to learn or do.
14:20 asciilifeform ( why not something that ain't duplicated in 4 places in real time )
14:20 asciilifeform and/or something with even 1 secret
14:21 mircea_popescu the problem with secrets is that the people who know where they are also know what they are.
14:22 asciilifeform i'm at a loss re what one can get from inside a111 that ain't easier to get from the upstream isp.
14:22 mircea_popescu "phf didn't notice"
14:23 mircea_popescu asciilifeform understand this bit of GT : the knowledge of all the things you don't know thereby constructs a sybil of you.
↖ ↖ ↖
14:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: plox to expand, this is too deep a koan for my small brain
14:24 mircea_popescu ok, let's start small. what's the one thing the lover needs to know in order to safely visit the cheating wife ?
14:24 asciilifeform when d00d is not home ?
14:24 mircea_popescu right.
14:25 mircea_popescu "in order to masquerade the husband, youthful aspirant needs knowledge of what... husband doesn't know"
14:25 mircea_popescu what is the basis of adolescent pretense to autonomy, independence and adulthood generally ?
14:25 mircea_popescu a keen awareness of... what their parents... don't notice.
14:25 mircea_popescu the things you don't know, if structured, become an alt-you.
14:25 mircea_popescu whether anyone steps into that form or not, the form IS.
14:26 mircea_popescu that is why it is so trivially easay for me to engage/defeat random pantsuit-minded kiddo straggling in here. his darkness is obviously structured.
14:26 mircea_popescu that's one statement as to why we dun wanna be socialist. I DON'T WANT MY ABSENCE OF MIND STRUCTURED MOTHERFUCKERS.
14:26 mircea_popescu etc.
14:28 trinque asciilifeform: doubtful it'd just be a111; my fail2ban.log is rather long too. and fwiw authlog appears to have fewer IPs when fail2ban's off, moar, when on.
14:29 mircea_popescu trinque say that last bit again ?!
14:29 asciilifeform yea i dun get it
14:30 * trinque had fail2ban off for a while, and looked like there were mostly just two "chinese" IPs chewing on the box. when I re-enabled fail2ban, got moar IPs chewing, either by happenstance or one turd circumventing fail2ban.
14:31 mircea_popescu is the intimation here that fail2ban somehow communicates to the enemy ?
14:31 trinque just that whichever auto-ssh-chewer sybils it up when a particular IP gets banned
14:31 mircea_popescu aaa
14:32 mircea_popescu this is likely, actuaklly, chinese white man's computer liberation farm only forks on ban
14:33 mircea_popescu (this btw is quite possibly actual govt project ; seeing how drastically -ev it is)
14:37 asciilifeform trinque: i get these 'chinese' every day
14:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform anyway, to continue upstream : education is an effort to resolve the unknowledge-sybil problem. you take in the girl and know full well what she doesn't know, whip her, fuck her, not necessarily in this order, until she gets to the place where you don't know what she doesn't know, at which point she's an adult slave.
14:37 asciilifeform contemplated setting up a honeypot for them to see what is the payload, but ars longa
14:39 mircea_popescu which strictly means that she carries an indelible if invisible brand now, ie, that you could pick her out of any number of identical body clones.
14:39 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the knowledge problem is not so simple as pictured here. husband may be at work but built camera into the floor long before he met the whore. phf may know re box but not care ( asciilifeform for instance regards contents of hdd of rental servers as sacrificial , esp after theft of the original dulap , etc )
14:40 mircea_popescu which is why it says "knowledge of what husband doesn't know".
14:40 mircea_popescu if he knows and you think he doesn't... guess what. now he'll sybil you.
14:40 asciilifeform unless 'husband' is stupid, this knowledge is in principle unavailable.
14:40 mircea_popescu because now HE knows what you don;t know. etc.
14:40 asciilifeform this yes.
14:40 mircea_popescu asciilifeform but this is the point of all art and all science -- to avoid being stupid.
14:41 mircea_popescu precisely because such knowledge is in principle unavailable, ie, if you got fucked it's always because you stumbled.
14:41 mircea_popescu know the joke ?
14:41 asciilifeform hm?
14:42 mircea_popescu rooster sees hen and runs towards her. hen reflexively starts running away. after a short space the hen thinks "if i stop he'll think me a slut, if i keep running he'll think me stupid... how about i stumble."
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14:42 asciilifeform ah this yea
14:42 mircea_popescu yeah.
14:42 mircea_popescu if you got fucked... at some point you "stumbled".
14:47 BingoBoingo Welcome back ag3nt_zer0
14:47 ag3nt_zer0 hey thanks BingoBoingo
14:47 BingoBoingo brb, sleep
14:48 asciilifeform trinque: fail2ban and similar, only help to unclutter logs
14:48 asciilifeform they give ~0 additional tightness unless your setup was catastrophically ill-conceived to begin with
14:49 trinque yep, no argument here. and agree re: rented boxes being rented toilets.
14:49 mircea_popescu turning off pw auth possibly unclutters them more
14:49 asciilifeform aha
14:49 trinque it's off.
14:49 mircea_popescu lol!
14:53 trinque anyhow the deedbot box has backups on archival dvd, deploy scripts to plop the thing onto another box, etc etc; I'm sure same goes for other infrastructure
14:53 trinque somebody's just making sure his boss's boss knows SERIOUS WORK is being done
14:53 asciilifeform i thought state of the art 'serious work' was... stealing boxes
14:53 asciilifeform 'that'll show'em'
14:53 trinque probably in aggregate, on some spreadsheet; i.e. X boxes were "SCANNED FOR VULNERABILITIES"
14:54 mircea_popescu oya.
14:55 ag3nt_zer0 might anyone help me with this question? I created a paper wallet using bitaddress.org transferred to little airgapped raspberry pi... not wanting to print on my wifi capable printer, I chose to write down the numbers. Now I am wanting to get my coins the hell off coinbase before the nonsense and am concerned that my private key is legit. so, I learned that I could go back on bitaddress.org, offline of course, and click "wallet de
14:55 mircea_popescu your line got cut.
14:56 ag3nt_zer0 will display the correspnding pubkey... if it did this and everything matched can I take this as absolute that I am controlling and privkey will work when I want to send in 10 years?
14:56 trinque ohey you found your passphrase eh?
14:56 mircea_popescu ag3nt_zer0 the point of a private key is that only you know it.
14:56 ag3nt_zer0 yes
14:57 ag3nt_zer0 but am i just to assume that ANY key generated is legitimate and will work when time comes?
14:57 mircea_popescu so you know, run a proper node, make a new address there, send whatever coinbase/bitaddress/whatever held funds to it and be done.
14:57 ag3nt_zer0 keypair sorry
14:57 mircea_popescu ag3nt_zer0 you are to assume that no "generated" key is legitimate or will work reliably at any point.
14:57 ag3nt_zer0 yeah
14:57 mircea_popescu get your own node going, have it keep your coin.
14:58 ag3nt_zer0 trinque it was just !!v instead of the old !v
14:58 mircea_popescu if this is too inconvenient/complicated/expensiuve whatever, sell your bitcoin, now, and put the fiat in a fiat bank.
14:59 ag3nt_zer0 mircea_popescu... yes I need to do this... is it more expedient for a newb like me to attempt this on my old G5 or should I try it on another rasbpi?
14:59 trinque ag3nt_zer0: really ought to keep up with the logs instead of doing these drive-bys
14:59 shinohai Generating keypairs, etc on trb node has worked reliably for me 100% of time since inception
14:59 trinque "I want to plan for my future, as expediently as possible." ?
15:00 ag3nt_zer0 trinque no just worried about getting them out at august first
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15:00 mircea_popescu ag3nt_zer0 if it doesn't take a ssd, prolly not useful for bitcoin node. otherwise i vaguely recall ppl trying the raspberry pi and blockverification taking too long
15:00 ag3nt_zer0 expedient no correct word
15:00 shinohai (Especially now there is importprivkey function)
15:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: anything takes ssd, i have msdos boxes with ssd...
15:00 mircea_popescu asciilifeform jus sayin' for his benefit.
15:04 ag3nt_zer0 ok thank you all kindly for the responses
~ 15 minutes ~
15:19 asciilifeform ag3nt_zer0: don't be surprised, if waiting for aug1 or whatever 'wediditreddit event' to get your coin out of a gox, if they only offer to give it back in shitcoin ( or not at all )
15:19 asciilifeform just say no to goxes.
15:20 ag3nt_zer0 yes I am trying to get out by tomorrow asciilifeform
15:26 ag3nt_zer0 all I can say is thank god I found this sanctuary of the guardians heh... otherwise who knows what I would be doing with my coins right now...
15:27 asciilifeform i actually never understood this, even before encountering mircea_popescu et al :
15:27 asciilifeform why is it that the early bitcoin folx had this 'burning hole in pocket' problem
15:28 asciilifeform from where comes the 'who knows what I would be doing with my coins right now' ?
15:28 floog i converted my btc to ltc until post-aug1
15:28 asciilifeform lol why?!
15:28 shinohai jenyus
15:28 mircea_popescu lol
15:29 floog thought it would be safe? apparently you all disagree
15:29 trinque asciilifeform: insufficent forebrain to override hindbrain's itch for instant gratification
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15:32 mircea_popescu asciilifeform elstards are educated from birth to value things only by reference to the herd. it is not important for them to have a great fucktoy at home ; but it is very important for them to take home the girl all the other dorks imagine would be a great accomplishment to take home.
15:32 mircea_popescu which is why when i showed something awful the "here, you can pay people to do things to themselves" it BURNEDDDDDDD
15:32 mircea_popescu not simply because it empowers rapist-racist-pre-trump-trump-me, annoying as that may be ; but because it puts in question the integrity of their valuation mechanism.
15:33 mircea_popescu "maybe mp paid everyuone around me to tell me they'd be all impressed if i married the hairbrush???"
15:33 mircea_popescu to which the only correct answer is the obvious, "of course he did lol"
15:34 mircea_popescu so now -- why owning a ferrari is nothing, unles you can DO things with it, such as ride it around a clump of "your friends" ?
15:35 mircea_popescu it's a strange perversion of capitalism (whereby if it's not useful it's not worth jack) into displayism (whereby if it's not being seen it's not worth having). so you gotta... DO things with your bitcoin for your bitcoin to exist (not individually, but categorically -- a store of value "does not exist" in this addled worldview.)
15:36 asciilifeform i thought it was from old fiatola habit ('spend it nao or it evaporates anyway')
15:36 mircea_popescu i do not think so. these schmucks never had any money, they're the poor generation. their parents, yes, but these are the djb street urchins not the djbs.
15:37 trinque every idiot you pass on teh street glued to the glass rectangle is doing this. "omg, I exist, look there are notifications on the rectangle for 'me'"
15:37 trinque well not mircea_popescu, but asciilifeform passes them
15:38 mircea_popescu trinque hey, you have no idea. so sunday was large celebration, including parade with literal 1k horses. the people ON the horses ?
15:38 mircea_popescu yep, you guessed it, at least a quarter of the riders were taping away at any point.
15:39 asciilifeform lol!!
15:39 asciilifeform and not 1 fell off ?
15:39 mircea_popescu this with the horse underneath! which you know, needs your attention.
15:39 mircea_popescu very fucking disconcerted horses.
15:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform notrly. horse is very loving, welcoming, girlfriend like animal. it's going to help you in whatever way it can / you need.
15:39 mircea_popescu but god damned...
15:39 trinque ah lol, too bad
15:40 mircea_popescu and in general you know, "i'm not interested in LOOKING at the horses, but where could i snap a selfie from ?"
15:40 mircea_popescu but the truly mindboggling thing, to me, was that they were all fine riders. somehow. i do not know how. feet correctly in the saddle, not one, all, the men, children, women, etc. proper grips on at least half the reins. and so on.
15:41 mircea_popescu and YET...
15:41 mircea_popescu see, cuz if they looked like "u of maryland goes on horseback", half the schmucks seated backwards or whatnot, then it'd make sense. but how did these people manage to acquire riding skills with the constant tapdistraction ?
15:41 mircea_popescu it must be from a time before, i've nothing else.
15:42 ag3nt_zer0 asciilifeform... I just mean there is a lot of noise and this place seems to be the clear signal... and I say "seems" simply because I don't understand it as well as I would need to dispose of that qualifier
15:42 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-15#1656354 << no sane authority, meaning erodes, can't create a self, masturbate in portable mirror?
15:42 a111 Logged on 2017-05-15 15:38 mircea_popescu: there is no possiblity of meaning outside of a structure of authority, and the authority can not be predicated on the meaning.
15:42 mircea_popescu obviously.
15:42 trinque mircea_popescu: I did see a rather long line at the McD's in San Jose when there
15:43 shinohai ag3nt_zer0: One needs to keep the antenna locked to receive the clear signal!
15:43 asciilifeform i suspect that moar folx in usa know how to fly plane, than to ride horse
15:43 ag3nt_zer0 asciilifeform: for instance, I may have traded my coins for doge or whateva
15:43 mircea_popescu o yeah, for some reason they think us stuff is great. my elite grocer, that stocks everything including fine french wines ? they think HORMEL is the best brand of cured meats.
15:43 asciilifeform lol original spam
15:43 mircea_popescu you know ?
15:44 mircea_popescu it's so disconcerting, pate de foie, hormel crap, greek olives, line-up. wtf.
15:52 asciilifeform is it because of escapees from usa among the buyers ?
15:52 asciilifeform sad to say, i bet the spam ~moves~
15:53 asciilifeform ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631922 )
15:53 a111 Logged on 2017-03-23 17:06 asciilifeform: not long ago i saw a photo of some american mega-rich d00d, forget who, and nobody cares, his refrigerator, was full of synthetic 'budveiser' beer
15:55 asciilifeform !!up user705
15:55 deedbot user705 voiced for 30 minutes.
15:56 trinque asciilifeform: no, lol, it was not american expats at the San Jose mcdonalds.
15:57 asciilifeform folx who grew up on 'vhs tape usa' then
15:57 trinque has to be.
15:57 asciilifeform though i'd imagine their population would be thinning by nao
15:57 asciilifeform ( actually taking a trip to usa is a ~guaranteed cure )
15:59 trinque possibly not. perhaps the monkeybrain prefers insane authority to none.
15:59 mircea_popescu and speaking of naught in particular, isn't it shocking there's no pornstar named "natasha kinksky" ?
15:59 trinque now there's a perverse state in which to be trapped; relying on the other's insanity to preserve the delusion of one's own sanity.
16:00 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i believe it's beause they very literallty and genuinely think the us crap is good.
16:00 floog http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-17#1685787 <<< blue book is going to take 3 weeks to ship. any tips of what to read up on/learn in the meantime?
↖
16:00 a111 Logged on 2017-07-17 23:44 mircea_popescu: you know, if it seems a good next step then it likely is.
16:00 mircea_popescu hormel prolly status symbol. i have record of "eating at mcdo every sunday" being top of list of old woman trying to sell convenience marriagfe to her poetic daughter.
16:00 mircea_popescu floog you saw the topic ?
16:01 mircea_popescu asciilifeform trip does not cure ; know plenty of girlies who studied "criminalisticologies" in us, came back laden with debt, trying to GET BACK.
↖
16:02 mircea_popescu which is hysterical on its face. you... had to leave... because... it ... didn't suck ?!
16:03 floog mircea_popescu write V implementation??
16:07 mircea_popescu for instance.
16:08 mircea_popescu or stand up a log bot, or whatever. run a trb node. run the ada implementation passed around recently of a big number calculator and produce 655356! to compare with the given values.
16:08 mircea_popescu the log is full of stuff to do.
16:08 mircea_popescu get a fg, run tests on it, report results, what have you.
16:09 mircea_popescu trinque that perverse state is called borderline personality disorder ; aka wrist sleeves. they generally end up playing enabler to all sorta nutty males.
16:11 user705 is there a way to do a trb node not on Linux?
↖
16:12 mircea_popescu can you compile c on the not linux ?
16:13 lobbes http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686119 << This was exactly my case. I have same appreciation towards folx here as ag3nt_zer0. I bought first btc at $20 for purposes of silk road back in early 2014. Price quickly shot up. Found tardstalk 'securities'. I thought "Wow, pretty graphs and charts. Lemme try and catch the next boat11!"
16:13 a111 Logged on 2017-07-18 19:29 trinque: asciilifeform: insufficent forebrain to override hindbrain's itch for instant gratification
16:13 lobbes Then I started reading the "trolls", then finally was lead here (I think it was pankkake that tipped me off). Then, it hit me like a "shit-ton of bricks (tm)": I'm retarded! The herd is retarded! I better stop, listen, learn from these evidently superior beings before I'm toast.
16:13 shinohai Sure, the foundation has trb.exe available on website
16:13 mircea_popescu it does ?!
16:13 shinohai /s
16:16 shinohai https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFCRY6xXUAAjbco.jpg "Invalidating idle private keys to force them to upgrade"
↖
16:16 shinohai I've seen it all now
16:16 mircea_popescu ahahaha wut
16:17 shinohai How long befire the BTC phork crowd says "WE SHOULD TOTALLY DO THIS!!!!!"
16:18 mircea_popescu zooko lol. dude's been a cock puppet since what, day 1?
16:18 user705 how would one define "idle"
16:18 mircea_popescu user705 "not on list usg.nsa gave zooko deniably" ?
16:19 user705 oh mike hearn had that bright idea a while ago
16:19 shinohai Seems zooko also started a new scam coin ... Imma hafta come out of retirement for these lulz
16:19 mircea_popescu hey, ustards perceive "they got names", and gotta burn 'em to cash in. it's the way of progress!
16:20 trinque user705: weird how different people all seem to push in the same direction eh?
16:20 trinque must be wisdom of the crowd or something
16:20 mircea_popescu user705 inasmuch as it's not an idea, yeah. they all have the same ideas, being the same item.
16:21 mircea_popescu meanwhile at the official slack hangout, http://68.media.tumblr.com/6ddc1031c2446d6b41f3a22987808a4c/tumblr_ofd3wt0Rfy1u9uov7o1_400.gif
16:21 user705 if ever there was a great price entry point is when people like them quit BTC
16:21 mircea_popescu define quit.
16:22 mircea_popescu stop talking about it ? won't happen. stop being meaningfully involved ? they never were. which of 0, infinity was your notion ?
16:23 user705 in his case "quit" was he sold it all or so he said and who knows how much "all" really was
16:23 mircea_popescu he never had any.
16:24 mircea_popescu all the usg experts, from gavin down, were from the get-go paid in fiat to see what they can do to further fiat interest in the republic ; no more.
16:25 mircea_popescu that vesseness could run his scam foundation a little longer by pretending to take donations "for paying gavin's salary" was simply an expedient cover-up. gavin was getting a nsa salary anyway. to pretend like "btc donations" from suckers paid for it was cheap enough a cover-up.
16:25 mircea_popescu this is how teh usg does things, and always has. it takes a special sort of idiot to actually buy into their web of nonsense
16:26 mircea_popescu but thart's ok, as they actually breed the requisite sort of idiot themselves.
16:26 shinohai The same lie Bruce Fenton tried to sell when attempting to resurrect it
16:26 mircea_popescu and why not. if it works it works so they get a little more juice, and if it doesn't work... not like anyone's going to jail.
16:27 mircea_popescu by the time they';re going to jail everyone is anyway, so, they are correctly judging -- better hang for the sheep along with the calf, we're all dead men anyway.
16:40 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686172 << blue book what ?
16:40 a111 Logged on 2017-07-18 20:00 floog: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-17#1685787 <<< blue book is going to take 3 weeks to ship. any tips of what to read up on/learn in the meantime?
16:41 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686176 << why would they want to go back?! eager to get back into debt peonage??
16:41 a111 Logged on 2017-07-18 20:01 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform trip does not cure ; know plenty of girlies who studied "criminalisticologies" in us, came back laden with debt, trying to GET BACK.
16:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the place caters very well to the lazy vanity of the inept.
16:41 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686184 << there were experiments with openbsd, but iirc it is not a currently supported os. so answer is linux unless you're willing to port.
16:41 a111 Logged on 2017-07-18 20:11 user705: is there a way to do a trb node not on Linux?
16:41 floog asciilifeform schneier's applied cryptography 1st edition
16:41 asciilifeform waiwat
16:41 mircea_popescu they "have rights" which is to say, debt peonage is never going to be the south east asian brothel bed, or the debtor's prison, or marylebone workhouse.
↖
16:42 mircea_popescu rather than put up with their manifest insufficiency and social inferiority at home, they find it preferable to go be "equal" to "everyone" in dumblandia.
16:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform he's ordered the early cycle schneier book, what.
16:42 asciilifeform aah
16:43 asciilifeform there is some confusion re subj, and i fear that i created it :
16:43 asciilifeform 1) schneier 'applied crypto' 1st ed : blue soft cover.
16:44 asciilifeform 2) schneier 'applied crypto' 2nd ed , 1996 : red cover
16:44 asciilifeform 2 is NOT censored edition, it is more or less same as 1.
16:44 asciilifeform but there also exists a 3 :
16:44 asciilifeform 'cryptography engineering' . dark blue/blackish cover
16:44 floog is 1st edition censored?
16:45 asciilifeform (2010). and it is ENTIRELY different book, largely fluff, 0 mathematics, thin
16:45 asciilifeform 1 and 2 are interchangeable for all purposes afaik
16:45 asciilifeform 3 is rubbish
16:46 asciilifeform 'applied crypto' is moar of an encyclopaedia than anything else
16:47 asciilifeform incidentally, the mega-b00k from which schneier et al plagiarize ~everything, is : 'handbook of applied crypgography', crc press
16:47 asciilifeform by vanstone et al
16:48 asciilifeform *cryptography
16:50 floog so, is vanstone > schneier?
16:50 asciilifeform imho.
16:51 asciilifeform heavier on the mathematics, lighter on the chitchat
16:52 asciilifeform ( contains, for instance, pretty good review of finite field arithmetic methods )
16:54 floog basically, i realized that i suck, and i want to suck less. so i plan to read schneier per ben_vulpes' blog post's recommendation. but maybe i should read vanstone instead?
16:54 mircea_popescu read both, what's the trouble.
16:54 asciilifeform they're encyclopaedias, read whichever sections pleases you
16:55 asciilifeform i started with ancient copy of schneier, later found the vanstone and realized that it is a superset
16:56 floog # of hours in the day
16:56 asciilifeform a very large fraction of ~both~ is devoted to rubbish (des, kerberos, dsa) which are of strictly archaeological/entomological interest
17:02 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686227 << in usa it is 'soft' peonage -- all it does is, if somebody pays you in electro-usgolade, they take ~80%; if you inherit property , they take whole thing
17:02 a111 Logged on 2017-07-18 20:41 mircea_popescu: they "have rights" which is to say, debt peonage is never going to be the south east asian brothel bed, or the debtor's prison, or marylebone workhouse.
17:03 mircea_popescu what's indigent to inherit.
17:03 mircea_popescu besides, she figures if she were to inherit shje'\d just run back home.
17:03 asciilifeform they have parents neh
17:03 asciilifeform well yes, back home where irs is waiting
17:03 mircea_popescu in costa rica ? lol.
17:03 asciilifeform mno, usa
17:03 asciilifeform i thought thread was re 'they want back to usa'
17:04 mircea_popescu under discussion was orc girl of no particular qualities aspiring to criminogogology degree from us.
17:04 asciilifeform aaaa
17:04 asciilifeform orc gurl aite
17:04 asciilifeform i thought subj were escapee from usa
17:04 mircea_popescu no. girl from here, goes there, gets "degree", HAS TO COME BACK
17:04 mircea_popescu somehow this is !== "degree sucks" in her head, wants to go back for another spin.
17:05 asciilifeform maybe another spin at 'mrs degree' ?
17:05 mircea_popescu this is how they get pregnant, normally, but the usg has managed to turn that innate female idiocy into actual demographic aggregator for it.
17:05 mircea_popescu she's basically raising cats.
17:05 mircea_popescu "costs nothing" and "love her". after a fashion, both of these.
17:06 whaack what's the point of learning crypto for plebians, the concepts are too hard to follow. there are so many traps in number theory, and the argument to believe that using a scheme like RSA is secure requires understanding so many lemmas. It's so easy to make a false proof, how can one not believe they're not being duped (intentionally or unintentionally) along the way to enlightenment. The one time pad is really the only thing I trust to t
17:06 whaack his day.
17:06 mircea_popescu the point of learning is learning, not immediate productivity.
17:06 mircea_popescu some people are curious ; some aren't.
17:07 whaack so it's just for the pleasure of learning?
17:08 mircea_popescu sure.
17:09 asciilifeform what's the point of learning aerodynamics for plebians, the concepts are too hard to follow, there are so many traps in flying, and the argument to believe that it is possible to safely travel in an airplane requires understanding so many lemmas. it is easy to get into a spin, how can one not believe they are not headed screaming into the ground along the way....
17:10 trinque eating a bullet would put an end to all this fretful uncertainty!
17:10 whaack aha
17:10 trinque of course what if it doesn't fire
17:10 asciilifeform better make it a 30mm flak round to be sure
17:10 shinohai lolz trinque
17:16 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686192 << that there's the endgame of all usgcoinisms, neh.
17:16 a111 Logged on 2017-07-18 20:16 shinohai: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFCRY6xXUAAjbco.jpg "Invalidating idle private keys to force them to upgrade"
17:16 asciilifeform is whole point.
~ 31 minutes ~
17:48 mircea_popescu well, whole point would be if the ugly fat kid would get the whole world to love him. but, fail that, picking and choosing which other's private keys can do what when will have to do as a substitute.
17:57 mircea_popescu anyway, to revisit whaack 's earlier lament : never trust the man who says "don't worry your pretty head, sweet" unless you're quite meaning to be whored out ; because meaning or not, it's gonna happen.
~ 39 minutes ~
18:37 whaack i'm not advocating one doesn't make an effort to learn, I'm just pointing out that the material covered does not "fit in head" (as alf puts it) very easily and thus the main thing gotten from that book, for me at least, is the deep complexity involved with some of these schemes
18:38 trinque loving mother nature says get a bigger head, or die
18:38 mircea_popescu what fits in head depends also on the structuring of the head.
18:38 mircea_popescu which you know, occurs through contact with complexity and labour upon it.
18:41 mircea_popescu for instance : alf gets so livid when certain classes of events occur because they contradict assumptions he's made upon which he built the particular head-fitter he uses. they'd better hold, or else the whole thing is in danger. specifically : a lot less could be fit in head.
↖
18:41 mircea_popescu the discussion as to height of towers and men in prison is apropos.
~ 16 minutes ~
18:58 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
18:58 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2281.99, vol: 26868.80278162 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2208.284, vol: 9938.34654 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2280.9, vol: 45477.77645019 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2342.845446, vol: 17924.89030000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2275.0, vol: 14988.9936529 | Volume-weighted last average: 2283.76057022
18:58 asciilifeform whaack is quite likely thinking of the bulk of the b00k, which consists of blockcipher liquishit which is complicated for no reason at all other than the religion where 'it is confusing to ME, author, and therefore Must Be Hard To Break'
↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖
18:59 asciilifeform it does not fit in any head because it is rubbish, specifically constructed to be difficult to analyze, but not by virtue of this any more secure in any sense you might care about
19:00 asciilifeform ( specifically it is secure ~against your analysis~, but not the nsa designer's )
19:00 whaack aha yes the blockcipher schemes always seem to be security-by-obfuscation
19:01 mircea_popescu they're really just tradition-wank
19:01 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686295 << mircea_popescu would enjoy surprises no moar than asciilifeform does if he did not have a thick layer of otherpeople to insulate own skin from them
19:01 a111 Logged on 2017-07-18 22:41 mircea_popescu: for instance : alf gets so livid when certain classes of events occur because they contradict assumptions he's made upon which he built the particular head-fitter he uses. they'd better hold, or else the whole thing is in danger. specifically : a lot less could be fit in head.
19:01 mircea_popescu "oh, enigma machine sucked, surely if we used computer to emulate one WILL BE SO MUCH BETTER"
19:01 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i was not proposing that as a flaw.
19:01 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aha, ALL, without exception, blockcipher and streamcipher, published to date, are ~enigma
↖
19:02 mircea_popescu arguably not as well made, either. the original had a lot of "boxes" and shit.
19:02 asciilifeform actually quite same.
19:03 asciilifeform ( today's, e.g. aes, have moar boxes still. but same principle, of rearrangement. )
19:08 mircea_popescu and in other lulz, best handle for masochistic subbie on bdsm site ?
19:08 mircea_popescu tvoyasovest.
~ 47 minutes ~
19:56 ben_vulpes in other toxic masculinity news, one of the guys i share the office with brought a set of olympic weights in
19:56 mircea_popescu is this bad for fiatcoin ?
19:57 ben_vulpes swole wot is bad for fiatcoin, yes
19:57 mircea_popescu a ok then
20:02 mircea_popescu funny that antiseptic masculinity should be deemed toxic by the very bugs it is there to exterminate.
20:02 mircea_popescu i could have not predicted this entirely surprising turn of events.
20:03 mircea_popescu should have listend when toupac told us all to get credit cards.
~ 16 minutes ~
20:20 sina hullo
20:20 shinohai how's sins?
20:20 sina asciilifeform: if you are about I have a question for the resident expert on constanttime stuff
20:20 sina hi shinohai! nb, and you?
20:21 shinohai Same
20:22 sina asciilifeform: basically I am wondering about the "threat model" of constanttime sidechannel stuffs. for example, let's say I want to write you an email with RSA encrypted body, or receive same from you, is there really a sidechannel there? I guess I'm asking in terms of async vs sync encrypted comms
20:22 mircea_popescu sina you mean, is there a side channel for constant time ops ? or for rsa as commonly implemented atm ?
20:23 sina as commonly implemented
20:23 sina I mean, I get that there are timing attacks you could perform if there was a synchronous stream of traffic happening
20:24 mircea_popescu as commonly implem,ented, yes.
20:24 sina but if I write an email on my box, encrypt it with RSA, then send it...what timing info can be derived?
20:24 sina can you give me an example situation mircea_popescu?
20:24 mircea_popescu actual key recovery via acousting channel has been demonstrated recently ; power lines both in draw and as antenna have long been known to leak key bits.
20:24 mircea_popescu etcetera.
20:25 mircea_popescu sina example situation, you decrypt your message in a room with an ipad, lose the key.
20:27 sina I lose the key because an adversary is nearby watching all my EMR?
20:27 mircea_popescu because the processor clicks slightly as it works ; and if you fork on secret bits you are thereby giving the secret bits away.
20:27 sina giving them away to whom? certainly not to a passive network adversary...right?
20:28 mircea_popescu to anyone who happens to listen.
20:28 sina "to listen" ...to...EMR...right?
20:28 mircea_popescu it is perfectly conceivable that by following eg your delay in response to pings on a network-routable box while a decryption is in progress, at least part of the key material can be derived.
20:29 asciilifeform sina: your question is in fact a repeat of old thread , which you participated in, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674790
20:29 a111 Logged on 2017-06-27 01:45 asciilifeform: EVERYONE eventually asks this
20:29 mircea_popescu sina doesn't have to be "emr". it can be the resonant behaviour of your power lines or the acoustic polution in the room or ping delays or anything else.
20:29 mircea_popescu cache hits to reference the recent rowhammer lulz, you name it.
20:29 asciilifeform the 'write an email on my box, encrypt it with RSA, then send it...what timing info can be derived' contention is merely a special case of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674800
20:29 a111 Logged on 2017-06-27 01:47 sina: any actual practical example of making it spill out of the time box? lets say two independent processes, one is preparing the payloads and putting them in an "outbox"
20:29 asciilifeform sina: do you know the story of the synchronized machine gun ?
20:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform apparently it didn't take.
20:30 sina asciilifeform: if you would consider this question as a continuation of that thread rather than repeat, I'd appreciate
20:30 asciilifeform in ww1, at first flyers had to be content with dropping caltrops, frags, firing revolvers, from the cockpit
20:30 sina however I would note that at the end of that thread it was still unclear to me how the final model I proposed was unsafe in any case
20:30 asciilifeform but this was quickly found to be a sad joke, folx wanted to mount machine gun
20:30 asciilifeform problem is, how do you aim.
20:31 asciilifeform can have a second man, but in the cardboard planes this was an expensive mass proposition.
20:31 sina right, I know the thing of synchronizing bullets with the propellor spins
20:31 asciilifeform so the coaxial -- with propeller -- was chosen
20:31 asciilifeform anyway, the 'modern' scheme, with the synchronized bolt, is a german invention
20:31 asciilifeform the french at first took the idiot path of... armouring propellers.
20:32 asciilifeform the 'release modular exponentiation result after time T' is an armoured propeller.
20:32 asciilifeform is it obvious how, or is it necessary to explain ?
20:32 sina I guess I should rephrase my question
20:33 sina what I'm trying to understand, is which adversaries can mount a timing attack, and which cannot, given async comms
20:33 trinque .. just gotta get the thing to leak your sleep timing too
20:33 asciilifeform sina: there is a ru proverb, pertinent, also : 'you cannot conceal an awl inside a sack'
20:33 asciilifeform your modularexp is an awl
20:34 asciilifeform the hypothetical 'time envelope' -- sack
20:34 asciilifeform it is enough for the awl to pierce the sack exactly once, anywhere.
20:34 sina what's awl
20:34 asciilifeform sina: sharp tool for sewing in leather
20:35 sina asciilifeform: so what software do you currently use for RSA encryption
20:36 sina my understandinf of your POV is that there is currently no adequate constanttime impl
20:36 asciilifeform sina: currently there is exactly 1 rsatron that anybody worth mentioning uses, gpg. which is a sad joke in 9,001 ways, and slated for replacement
20:37 asciilifeform the 1 constanttime implementation -- is mine
20:37 asciilifeform but it is right now in prototype phase
20:37 sina right. so you use it, despite it being as "awlish" as anything?
20:37 trinque there is even a historic copy of grandfather's pistol in deedbot
20:38 sina which is fine, and I guess my point, because you must understand there is some adversary which can read your keys and some which cannot and you as of current, accept the risk
20:38 trinque sina: what are you driving at?
20:38 trinque rubber stamp of your own use of gpg?
20:38 sina no
20:38 sina just, hopefully a list of adversary capability mapping to outcomes
20:38 sina for the purpose of proper understanding
20:39 sina e.g. asciilifeform uses gpg, even though he knows some adversary might read his key via timing attack, because the list of adversary which can do so, he has discounted
20:39 sina for now anyway
20:39 asciilifeform sina: our 18th ancestors' perspectives on hygiene are not advice to the modern thinking man.
20:39 asciilifeform ditto gpg.
20:39 sina again, it's understood
20:40 sina asciilifeform: "you cannot conceal an awl inside a sack" understood and accepted
20:40 trinque that you are on a field being mortared does not mean you've discounted the enemy
20:40 trinque just that you're there, so might get hit.
20:40 sina given that. what are the practicalities, today, on the ground
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20:40 trinque might think of moving, while you're still alive
20:40 asciilifeform sina: the practicalities are - that every time you unholster your gpg key, you broadcast a few bits of it.
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20:41 asciilifeform whether anybody happens to be listening is separate consideration.
20:42 asciilifeform the other practicality is that certain hypothetical uses of rsa -- such as specifically gossipd -- magnify this leak to the point where you are broadcasting the key at a few kHz
20:42 sina trinque: to extend your analogy. you are on a field, in a crater. you are ~impervious to horizontal machine gun attack thanks to the crater, but vulnerable to mortar attack
20:42 trinque there's this reaction to the NSA mindrape that ought to be pointed at directly. and more broadly the socialist mindrape.
20:42 trinque "yes things are that bad. have a great day!"
20:43 sina trinque: my question being, given a sina sitting in the crater, what is the list of things ~impervious to, what is the list of things not
20:44 trinque sina: you do not and likely will not know the manifold ways modern computing has been perforated for imperial tyranny
20:45 sina none of us do, and yet, tmsr uses "18th century hygeine" anyway. I am assuming because of considered evaluation of possible threats and their outcome
20:45 sina at least until 21st century hygeine comes along
20:45 sina no?
20:45 asciilifeform sina: what argument are you trying to make ?
20:46 sina no argument sir
20:46 sina only seeking of complete understanding
20:46 sina given observation of behaviours
20:47 sina feel free to say "it's a dumb question, go away"
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20:47 sina I ask here, because I feel here can give a useful answer
20:48 trinque not a dumb question, just already answered http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686394
20:48 a111 Logged on 2017-07-19 00:40 asciilifeform: sina: the practicalities are - that every time you unholster your gpg key, you broadcast a few bits of it.
20:49 sina trinque: given the quoted statement, what are the implications? for example, does it imply that a passive network adversary will not be in a position to mount a timing attack? or does it so?
20:49 sina can I safely state, if I want to email trinque RSA encrypted cake recipe, that asciilifeform can never read it?
20:51 asciilifeform if it's 500 recipes / sec for an hour, i'll read it
20:51 asciilifeform otherwise may or may not, but YOU DON'T KNOW which
20:51 sina or to ask alternatively, broadcast to whom?
20:51 asciilifeform there isn't a 'to whom', that's what word 'broadcast' ~means~
20:51 sina anyone who can ping my box? anyone in the world?
20:51 asciilifeform it's a 'to whom it may concern..'
20:52 asciilifeform to your neighbour, watching the room lights; to passer-by with antenna; to your isp; varies
20:52 asciilifeform to the other electronics, of various provenance, in your house. in your neighbour's house. to martians. etc
20:52 trinque to the antenna in your CPU! lets go full tinfoil.
20:52 asciilifeform to whoever sits on your pole transformer.
20:52 asciilifeform this list is arbitrarily long and NECESSARILY incomplete
20:53 asciilifeform and ill-conceived -- 'enumeration of badness'
20:53 asciilifeform but refusing to actually plug the leak at the source, dooms you to it
20:53 trinque !#s enumeration of badness
20:53 a111 2 results for "enumeration of badness", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=enumeration%20of%20badness
20:54 sina and yet, here we all are, encrypting, decrypting, signing ascii with some RSA stuff all the time, in spite of that
20:55 asciilifeform sina: i'll ask just this one more time : what is your argument ?
20:55 trinque sina: be brave and actually state what made you say that.
20:57 sina it's not an argument, only the next thought that pops into my head as a consequence of the discussion. all here seem on the same page re constanttime stuff, yet all here are using the tool in spite of that, so there must be some thought process which allows someone as reasonably paranoid as asciilifeform to do so, i.e. "I am not concerned with timing attacks of class X, Y, Z from adversary A, B,C when I
20:57 sina want to send my encrypted cake recipe to trinque"
20:57 trinque if standing on hot coals, I bet you'd run even though you'd only step on more coals, at least for a while.
20:58 trinque and meanwhile only sensible strategy would be to move quickly / step as few times as possible til off
20:58 sina otherwise asciilifeform would surely say "what is the point of encrypting, I am broadcasting my key to all, every time"
20:58 sina does my line of thought really make so little sense?
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20:59 sina again to reiterate I seek only understanding, not to make a point or argument
20:59 asciilifeform == 'what is the point of obeying traffic signals, i have a good chance of death in traffic anyway'
21:00 trinque sina: never been in a situation where you both had to act and there were no good options?
21:00 trinque (people gotta live more)
21:00 sina trinque: of course! and I ask, is there no value in understanding the consequences of a given act?
21:01 sina it seems the answer so far given is only "the consequence is always the worst, given this particular act"
21:02 sina but that is not congruent with actions taken, otherwise all here would treat their keys as compromised?
21:03 sina whereas I am asking, what is the gradient of consequence, given differing scenarios and adversaries
21:03 trinque how would you measure whether they are or not, other than acting in the world and seeing if you fail?
21:03 trinque and meanwhile refining methods seems sensible
21:04 sina trinque: does the general commit his troops to an action and see if he fails? or try and understand the enemy movement and tactics, to say "ok, crossing the bridge with enemy awaiting on farside, bad idea" without needing to act on it
21:05 sina and so it is, "do not encrypt 500 cake recipes a second"
21:06 trinque absent asciilifeform's expertise which gave ^ as output, one'd just turn that into a totem
21:06 asciilifeform sina: you DON'T KNOW that it's 500
21:06 asciilifeform could be 499. could be 4.
21:06 trinque and it wasn't a specific example
21:06 asciilifeform whereas if you simply DON'T MOTHERFUCKING LEAK, it doesn't matter if 500, 5,000,000, whatever.
21:06 trinque sorta like these guys that come through asking what to do with their raspberry pi wallet or w/e, life savings in dogecoin
21:06 asciilifeform i had nfi that this is a difficult concept.
21:07 sina alright. please let me attempt to summarise the discussion thus far, and correct any misconceptions
21:08 sina "today, until a constanttime solution is in place, gpg is the tool of choice for RSA encryption. any time you use it, you can't know whether you have completely compromised your private key. and we use it anyway."
21:08 mircea_popescu sina> just, hopefully a list of adversary capability mapping to outcomes << anyone who can listen in (ie, intercept acoustic band) within a mile or so of your machine, can derive your key that way. anyone who can measure your power draw (say, up to the pole) can derive your key that way. anyone who can route to your box, and measure delays, can idem.
21:09 mircea_popescu for as long as you're running the "awl" there are no solutions for this -- just mitigations. do not permit micrphones ; do not permit antennas ; use inductor&battery arrangements ; shoot anyone seen approaching the solitary hilltop fortress and so on and so forth ad infinitum.
21:10 mircea_popescu the costs of mitigation ever mount, which is why a proper solution is even contemplated.
21:10 sina mircea_popescu: if that is a complete list, then I am content with a useful answer.
21:10 mircea_popescu there can never be a complete list.
21:10 mircea_popescu it is a reasonably complete list.
21:11 sina then I am reasonably content :P
21:12 sina asciilifeform, trinque, no misconceptions in my summary?
21:13 trinque just the contentment!
21:13 sina trinque: to clarify, contentment in understanding, not of the status quo
21:13 trinque is joek
21:13 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686392 to this point : depends how much you're worth. if you're worth nothing, then you are thereby "safe" in this sense, that while protein rich i still don't eat the moths in my house.
21:13 a111 Logged on 2017-07-19 00:40 sina: given that. what are the practicalities, today, on the ground
21:13 mircea_popescu otherwise, in order of cheapness-effectivity : 1) get an isolated box for rsa ops. this shouldn't ever connect ot the internet. stuffing into it a stick which was in a net-connected machine counts.
21:14 mircea_popescu 2) get a proper power supply. this means -- that the power line should feed a battery, not your machine. you can measure leakage if you will, so this can be tweaked by hand to an arbitrary level.
21:15 mircea_popescu 3) get a n-p detector, armed guards, your own spying machinery, declare interdiction zones, etcetera.
21:15 mircea_popescu 4) infiltrate all conceivable enemies with your own agents
21:16 mircea_popescu 5) take over the crown.
21:16 sina mircea_popescu: only as a matter of curiosity, given your worth re above statement, do you take any of these actions?
21:16 mircea_popescu somewhere between 1 and 3 most people have enough bellyache. because, really, it's never fucking worth it to 5.
21:16 mircea_popescu sina yes. i actually infiltrate all conceivable enemies.
21:16 sina :D
21:17 sina it's a picture of mircea_popescu https://68.media.tumblr.com/916cb4ae6b1ff824fc27d1ffdca8e207/tumblr_n915c69LhG1snb6qwo2_r2_400.gif
21:18 mircea_popescu whossat ?
21:18 sina some actor playing the character of "Vizzini" in "The Princess Bride"
21:19 sina also a famous internet meme
21:19 mircea_popescu what's the intension ?
21:19 sina is joek
21:20 mircea_popescu i get that part, but what does it aim to, what's the tendency ?
21:21 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-16#1657137 << discussion of 5.
21:21 a111 Logged on 2017-05-16 19:52 mircea_popescu: romania incidentally has a long history of just this, it's called fanarioti period. hundreds of groups over 3-4 centuries did just this, kept taking over because pissed off with insolence of ex crown. discovered worse deal to be king.
21:21 sina oh. so in the movie Vizzini is the supersmart villain trying to kidnap this lady, and the good guy Dread Pirate Roberts keeps chasing him despite various obstacles Vizzini has created
21:21 sina whenever DPR does a thing, Vizzini is forced to say "Inconceivable"
21:22 sina http://princessbride.wikia.com/wiki/Vizzini
21:22 mircea_popescu ah that's who that was.
21:22 * mircea_popescu has seen the "you killed my father" a long time ago.
21:23 sina that is the one, although the book from which it derived is equally enjoyable
21:24 sina actually this quote seems like 100% mircea_popescu
21:24 sina "You only think I guessed wrong! That's what's so funny! I switched glasses while your back was turned! Ha ha, you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go against a Sicilian when death is on the line"! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha... "
21:24 sina I mean I can picture reading it in the logs
21:24 mircea_popescu i can't fwiw
21:24 trinque oh jeez.
21:25 sina http://btcbase.org/log/2015-12-28#1354883 << lellll
21:25 a111 Logged on 2015-12-28 01:23 mircea_popescu: the dictum "never get involved in a land war in asia" is mostly due to the fact that the portuguese were involved in a sea war in asia, and it worked splendidly for them.
21:25 mircea_popescu aha.
21:25 sina seek and ye shall find
21:26 mircea_popescu dja see the difference in quality ?
21:26 mircea_popescu not that i fault penny-an-hour hack/writer for not being able to reproduce reality in his fancy.
21:27 sina mircea_popescu: and yet it is so, the logs are the only place I can imagine such a sentence being discussed today
21:27 hanbot lol this poor guy's been trying to have a chuckle the last 20 mins...NOT ALLOWED!
21:27 mircea_popescu better chuckles!
21:27 mircea_popescu HA HA HA HA HA ha
21:29 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686409 << altogether not even much of a question.
21:29 a111 Logged on 2017-07-19 00:47 sina: feel free to say "it's a dumb question, go away"
21:29 sina anyhooz. patience from the usual suspects on RSA discussion greatly appreciated. must be off, have wonderful days all.
21:29 mircea_popescu the theory is that there's no "best practices", and deliberately. i'm pretty sure the practice follows the theory, but we'll definitely never know.
21:32 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-19#1686438 <<< yes, because you're applying the pretense of statics to a dynamic situation. trinque 's metaphore is very much factual : we were paradopped on hot coals, by the FAULT, inexcusable, and indelible, of our parents. they should have taken care that we do not get dropped on hot coals, as children barely able to move. they did not, and derelict in their first and practically speaking on
↖ ↖
21:32 a111 Logged on 2017-07-19 00:58 sina: does my line of thought really make so little sense?
21:32 mircea_popescu ly duty can never be forgiven.
↖
21:32 mircea_popescu and once there... well... there'll be more stepping on more coals to get away.
21:37 lobbes in other questions: Prompted by up-stack threads and after much log reading I've concluded that a SSD is a must for trb-ing. Would an external usb SSD be adequate, versus, say a SATA connection?
21:37 asciilifeform lobbes: generally no
21:37 lobbes okay
21:38 asciilifeform ( clogs the bus )
21:40 lobbes damn. looks like my plans for my old craptop being a trb node will have to wait until I secure better iron.
21:40 asciilifeform it doesn't hurt to try
21:40 asciilifeform but in my experience they make poor nodes.
21:41 lobbes I'll learn shit in the process, at least.
21:52 mod6 never hurts, get the kinks out early
~ 50 minutes ~
22:42 mircea_popescu meanwhile in the emaciated future, http://68.media.tumblr.com/94e47881942ed1fb6fa1349abd5841a5/tumblr_og8lhuAnZB1stijv1o1_1280.jpg
22:50 BingoBoingo <sina> whenever DPR does a thing, Vizzini is forced to say "Inconceivable" << Except irl, mircea_popescu is not short and DPR sits in sodomy box while mircea_popescu's muscle has titties
22:51 BingoBoingo <lobbes> damn. looks like my plans for my old craptop being a trb node will have to wait until I secure better iron. << Why can old craptop not eat SSD?
22:58 mircea_popescu possibly he doesn't want to pop the lid.
22:59 mircea_popescu a sentiment i can sympathize with -- no better way to ruin the day of cleanfreak chick than making her open up her years-old laptop.
22:59 asciilifeform pbfffffft
23:00 asciilifeform ( am i the only one who still cleans these regularly ? )
23:00 * BingoBoingo cleans
23:00 mircea_popescu well certainly people who don't know they come apart don't regularly anything.
23:01 mircea_popescu "i'm not only a virgin, but i never laid a hand on my slit" comes with a smegma guarantee.
23:01 mircea_popescu or in other words, innocence and drunkedness are, in that order, the superlative degrees of unhygienicity.
23:03 BingoBoingo Well, this is the story of how the puritains ruined America. "It dun work" "Have you tried cleaning it?" "STFU Imma not touch the filth" ... Disposable everythings
23:03 asciilifeform it isn't like you gotta clean it with own tongue
23:03 mircea_popescu keks
23:04 * BingoBoingo has met people who after touching granular pesticide barehanded tried to insist "hand sanitizer" was sufficient cleaning.
23:04 * BingoBoingo insisted STFU, GO HOSE!!!
23:06 * BingoBoingo wonders how reactive a hand santizer would have to be to reliably convert most organic compounds to "safe" forms. Likely would look like a hand solving vat of H2SO4 + H2O2
23:07 asciilifeform 'national razor' lol
23:10 BingoBoingo Product nothing seriously toxic, just permetherins and fuller's earth but still.
23:10 mircea_popescu you just wanted her to splash hose water on her tits.
23:12 BingoBoingo Nah, was old woman. Sent to hose herself.
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