Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-10-05 | 2018-10-07 → ↓
00:10 danielpbarron !!up anniez
00:10 deedbot anniez voiced for 30 minutes.
00:10 anniez hh
00:13 mircea_popescu will do.
~ 1 hours 45 minutes ~
01:58 deedbot http://bimbo.club/?p=43 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/03/2018
~ 8 hours 14 minutes ~
10:13 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858751 << my preferred method is to `ssh -D 8080 host` which sets up a socks proxy with port 8080 on your local machine and outbound on the `host`. you can then configure e.g. firefox to send everything through that proxy
10:13 a111 Logged on 2018-10-05 22:25 Mocky: a lot of sites are blocked in qatar and i don't know if I'll need it but I'd like to run a web proxy on my pizarro shared hosting just in case. can someone make a recommendation? do I need something like tinyproxy or squid, or is there a way to do it without installing anything?
10:14 Mocky right, ok
10:14 phf i assume in this case your proxy is as secure as your ssh, you can do it on demand, and you can also run it against any of your remote hosts.
10:15 phf it also helps to have a machine where you have ssh sitting on port 80, for when you are on e.g. hotel internet with a dumb firewall
10:16 mircea_popescu of course, if the place you're in makes this necessary, it is MUCH better to set ssh on port 80 on the local machine and just proceed.
10:16 mircea_popescu doh! i gotta take typing classes.
10:21 Mocky yeah mircea_popescu, your level of text output needs a boost...
10:22 mircea_popescu kids today and this sarcasm thing!
10:22 Mocky "kids"
10:23 mircea_popescu o yeah ?! WELL THE OCEAN CALLED...
10:25 phf Mocky: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/gmsRV/?raw=true you could set these options in firefox's about:config (there's probably a way to do it through gui), they are self explanatory. the last one ensures that dns is routed through socks. the first one can be either 1 or 0. i usually just go into about:config and toggle that to 1 when i need socks (there are probably extensions, etc. etc.)
10:25 mircea_popescu o hey, nice.
10:26 Mocky oh thx phf
10:26 mircea_popescu meanwhile in things that'll prolly need mirroring : https://backports.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Main_Page & http://drvbp1.linux-foundation.org/~mcgrof/rel-html/backports/ (lol).
10:27 phf i learned to jump through these hoops for the motherland
10:27 mircea_popescu brought about by y.t. fixing http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-26#1854603 through generous application of sewed out linux-wireless-compat-blabla. turns out the aeteron pci board included (mysteriously dubbed "revision 0032") works with cca 2015 vintage drivers, and them only.
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10:27 a111 Logged on 2018-09-26 00:18 mircea_popescu: in the end, useless hp box found new life as heroes 2 playstation.
10:28 mircea_popescu by the looks of it, wireless cards on laptops work with os wireless drivers from a 3 to 6 months period around their release. gotta get teh right timing.
10:30 mircea_popescu now, why the fuck would chamberlain choose to only publish a dozen or so of the compat modules, i couldn't guess. but the list there is woefully incomplete, the story goes back at least to 2.4 kernels.
10:31 diana_coman I'll soon do the regrind of eucrypt to move it on to keccak hashes; my plan is to keep the patches precisely as they are otherwise (i.e. including NO manifest until I actually added it at the end); the way I see it, it's just a swap-in-place of one hash for another; if anyone sees this sort of thing differently - since I'm hmmm,first to regrind a big project? - yell now !
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10:31 mircea_popescu seems fine diana_coman
10:33 mircea_popescu (nobody could really appreciate all the complex flavours of the shitpie that is linux until they learn that there 's ~an automated process~ to produce "compatibility" driver bundles for "old" kernels, out of the building blocks of two kernels and a driver. now -- ask to see the design papers of that item ?)
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10:36 mircea_popescu "but mp, you don't understand how the world works" "what is the meaning of '''new''' in the context of '''similar enough to old for this scheme to work''' "oh, it doesn't PROMISE to stay that way! this pile just works as long as it does!" "which isn't a promise ? and if it stops working, what, time for linux-backports-compat-compat, a set of scripts to update the set of scripts that updates...?" "YES!"
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10:37 mircea_popescu it's seem to me that by the semantics of the bizarro world these gnus inhabit, something working is a promise for that something to keep working. because the criteria by which they use things is "hey -- it works" ("we believe in rough consensus and working code", in in-universe terms), and therefore... everything that ever works thereby promises to keep on working indefinitely and for any possible usecase.
10:38 mircea_popescu now, why the fuck they'd use an implicit grammar-lexicon bundle like this, i have no fucking idea. but the fact that they ~shouldn't~ (which they should not) is NOT opposable to me! since they do, i have my argument!
10:38 diana_coman more like they don't have a notion of "working indefinitely" or even of more than tomorrow
10:39 mircea_popescu which makes the whole item self-contradictory.
10:39 mircea_popescu in the end, "foss" is not any more coherent, or intellectually respectable, than christianity.
10:40 diana_coman oh, was it supposed to be coherent and not self-contradictory? I missed that part,lol
10:43 mircea_popescu all the problems of computer "engineers" would be directly evident to any literary theorist / linguist / semiologist / gnoseologist / theorist of language / historian of philosophy / etcetera. except for the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1780289 problem, where they all preferred to chase the cuntherd instead of paying any attention whatsoever to the nonsense dribbling off the red stapler guys crowd.
10:43 a111 Logged on 2018-02-02 22:58 mircea_popescu: mod6 he has no idea ; it's not expensive considering what the actual cost per round is. add in all the capital costs, including the fact you're wasting your time there rather than diddling the local highschool girls' volleyball team...
10:44 mircea_popescu so everyone who has any clue as to how any of this shit works and why is busy derping about "intersectional queeritude" among the DD/lg crowd of paci sucklers,
10:44 mircea_popescu while humanity's greatest discovery slowly grow moss.
10:45 mircea_popescu the soviet-ness of this epic wastage of resources is mindblowing.
10:47 mircea_popescu anyway, to put some meat on the bones of "works with cca 2015 vintage drivers, and them only." : incorrect vintage drivers manage to literally fuck the chip, i have never seen dma errors before in teh logs, now have i seen chips refusing to turn back on and in general hardware level spew, "wrong mode d3", "error -5" etc.
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10:47 diana_coman perhaps; I'm not sure though that current theorist/linguist/semiologist/gnoseologist/etc necessarily knows what they are supposed to know
10:47 mircea_popescu i almost felt like an alf for five minutes before running away screaming to the numeric method.
10:48 mircea_popescu diana_coman the situation somewhat salvaged by the happenstance that you can't be any of those under about 60 years of age or so. (with exceptions, but they're rare enough).
10:48 asciilifeform lol
10:49 * asciilifeform misread earlier as 'seismologist' and scratched head for a while
10:50 diana_coman lol
10:51 mircea_popescu semiology, theory of signs, signifying and significance.
10:54 phf !#s umberto eco
10:54 a111 6 results for "umberto eco", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=umberto%20eco
10:54 asciilifeform yes i know
10:55 asciilifeform was waking up.
10:55 mircea_popescu phf no that is the other one. semiology is the a c de saussure thing.
10:55 mircea_popescu not that this distinction's with THAT much difference in context.
10:56 mircea_popescu anyway. 1800s tech, is the idea.
10:57 phf dangerous, restricted for your own safety
10:59 mircea_popescu amusingly enough, i could see the paralel between alf's (not entirely unsuported in practice) notions of "useful physics -- turn of the century, einstein-centric" and "useless physics -- string theory" and semiology/semiotics.
10:59 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858800 << they switched the userland abi, but 2.4 continued to live ( i've found that i still have at least 1 device in service where not only 2.4, but 2.4 that post-dates the release of 2.6 ) for many years, as it was moar compact and suitable for small iron than 2.6 ( which had better support for e.g. smp , but overall hog vs 2.4 )
10:59 a111 Logged on 2018-10-06 14:33 mircea_popescu: (nobody could really appreciate all the complex flavours of the shitpie that is linux until they learn that there 's ~an automated process~ to produce "compatibility" driver bundles for "old" kernels, out of the building blocks of two kernels and a driver. now -- ask to see the design papers of that item ?)
11:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i dun know if i have the keys to where they keep the real semiology ( if mircea_popescu says that it exists , i'll believe him ) ; as it is, i hear the word and think 'lacan' and reach for luger
11:00 mircea_popescu asciilifeform afaik another (not as clearly delineated) change between 2.6 and >3.3, because shit "mysteriously" stops working.
11:00 phf i didn't know yuri lotman was a semiotician, back in high school i had to go to sleep with lotman literary analysis books, like those vietnam conscripts with their rifles
11:01 mircea_popescu phf afaik the tartu school not heretical.
11:01 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: by my reckoning, some kinda pustule popped open at 2.7 and linus's merry men started taking liberties
11:02 mircea_popescu (large portion of what informs "cultural marxism" bla bla on social media today, but that's hardly their fault.)
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11:04 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587276 being little more than "one line summary of structuralism" and so on.
11:04 a111 Logged on 2016-12-21 18:32 mircea_popescu: because no, words don't "have meanings". your meanings for ANY WORD are a function of ALL THE OTHER WORDS YOU KNOW. which is why my definitions regularily blow out english dictionaries, wikipedia and other sources of "wisdom" out of the water - i know more words, and in this knowledge i know all the words i know ~better~. infinitely and irreproducibly so.
11:05 asciilifeform imho can tie the two threads together -- when linux folx stopped giving a shit about kernel size, they went to the same hell as when the physics people ditto
11:06 asciilifeform i.e. forgot commandment, 'first, do no bloat'
11:06 mircea_popescu this position is not without its merit. of course it also proposes literacy as the end of literature ("since they can write their shit to paper, they don't write anythingt worth remembering").
11:07 mircea_popescu but in the end -- no human invention was actually useful. just relatively useful.
11:07 phf i wonder if lotman's post-structuralism is same as the french, or if it's that only in a sense that it's post. anyway, this is cool and i'm going to pick up his other shit next time i'm in moscows
11:07 mircea_popescu phf i have nfi that such a thing as post-structuralism happened in ru. at any rate prior to nuland help.
11:08 mircea_popescu as far as i can discern, ru had delayed-structuralism, 50 years later.
11:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'nuland help' was going pretty strong in 1980s.
11:08 mircea_popescu something like that. but this -- more of a 60s thing.
11:09 phf mircea_popescu: i'm reading english pediwikia, i assume it's wildly wrong.
11:09 mircea_popescu well, you're reading the spew of a markov process with expectations of terminologic propriety ?!
11:09 mircea_popescu may i recommend #eulora also ?
11:10 asciilifeform lol!
11:11 mircea_popescu but anyway, to revisit the literacy angle... "congrats on creating the music recording box, mr. tesla. the side benefit is that in a short time there won't be any musicians worth recording left, because of the competition to their craft your time travelling device produces will destroy the very economic reason for their continued existence".
11:11 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858813 << this, btw, is quite ordinary picture in recent ~decade of iron. given as even humble nic is nao a multicore arm thing, and has own kernel, and sometimes whole MB of internal state, fulla vendor shitware; so yes, can wedge .
11:11 a111 Logged on 2018-10-06 14:47 mircea_popescu: anyway, to put some meat on the bones of "works with cca 2015 vintage drivers, and them only." : incorrect vintage drivers manage to literally fuck the chip, i have never seen dma errors before in teh logs, now have i seen chips refusing to turn back on and in general hardware level spew, "wrong mode d3", "error -5" etc.
11:11 mircea_popescu black culture used to create music at a time white culture was no longer for the same reason as the above : they were poor and retarded and didn't have music time-travel boxes.
11:12 mircea_popescu there's nothing intrinsically black about jazz new orleans, except for the part where the black people were the only poor enough to still have to entertain themselves.
11:12 mircea_popescu ditto harlem and so on.
11:13 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: as i understand, it was actually ~roll piano~ that nuked 'entertain self' music, rather than the scratchy phonograph of the time
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11:13 asciilifeform but overall picture correct
11:13 mircea_popescu right.
11:14 mircea_popescu tesla invented the car anyway, i was just making a point, ~in the structuralist style~.
11:14 asciilifeform ( radio -- welded the coffin shut )
11:17 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: also entertaining , to read the thoughts of the folx baking early television, '20s, 'errybody will watch great theatre!'
11:18 asciilifeform the porcine idjicy of 'mass', was imho quite evident long ago, but 'tech' folx lived in denial.
11:18 asciilifeform recall alan kay and his proto-ipad, 'if they get tabletron, children will learn to logic'
11:21 mircea_popescu cuz smart people keep doing this http://trilema.com/2016/why-is-that/#selection-221.55-225.273 thing, whereby http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686299 : "i, the all-important lone mind in the universe, can't summon up an image of how the universe'd go if it were took somewhere it never went before, and therefore -- any nonsense i come up with is valid!"
11:21 a111 Logged on 2017-07-18 22:58 asciilifeform: whaack is quite likely thinking of the bulk of the b00k, which consists of blockcipher liquishit which is complicated for no reason at all other than the religion where 'it is confusing to ME, author, and therefore Must Be Hard To Break'
11:21 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: imho simpler. the folx in question were labouring under ye olde christian delusion, where 'errybody got a soul'
11:22 mircea_popescu "what sort of blackguard would dare propose that if you give children dildos they'd put it in playdo ?! THAT IS NOT WHERE ID EVER STICK A DILDO! THIS IS WRONGOG!!!"
11:22 phf i wouldn't blame "children!" on alan kay though, he's a product of piaget's huge influence on post-hippie american academia
11:22 asciilifeform whereas it is the ~hindu~ who had the moar accurate picture -- that , sure, 'errybody soul', but some 70-90% have 'soul' from cockroach with 486dx upgrade pack
11:23 mircea_popescu phf "influence" in the sense of some morons that spoke neither french, nor german, nor italian. piaget was fucking swiss.
11:23 mircea_popescu if anyone dares talk of "mp's influence" in a century in fucking chinese, ima personally return with all my dead friends and feed them dead dumplings.
11:23 phf in russia they say "he hears the bells, but doesn't know where they are coming from"
11:23 mircea_popescu the dog ?
11:24 asciilifeform 'слышит звон да не знает где он'
11:24 asciilifeform ( rhyme in orig )
11:25 * mircea_popescu had heard this befoar as "the dog hears the bells, but doesn't understand where from".
11:29 phf i'm not sure the dog part fits
11:30 phf the idea is that if you don't know the particular location from which the bells are ringing you will misinterpret their meaning
11:32 phf if it's a human who's hearing then the stress is on the meaning, where if it's a dog the stress becomes on the location (i.e. the dog would want to seek out the source)
11:33 phf but yeah "influence" of piaget as reduced to "children learn best through play"
11:39 mircea_popescu dogs are notoriously incapable of sound location. cats and humans very capable.
11:40 mircea_popescu but possibly meaning was different -- best i can tell the idea was that receptor is incapable of decoding message for substantive lack. usually applied in school context, "class bells draw some kids to class, has no effect on others" sorta thing.
11:41 mircea_popescu which "children learn best through play" is even true, but the catch is -- children do nothing else anyway. if they learn at all...
11:46 mircea_popescu re-reading this log, jesus everything gets jumbled by proximity. so : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858837 they = the tartu school ; next line entirely unrelated to this thread, going back upstack to "if mp has keys" alf complaint.
11:46 a111 Logged on 2018-10-06 15:02 mircea_popescu: (large portion of what informs "cultural marxism" bla bla on social media today, but that's hardly their fault.)
11:57 mircea_popescu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jean_Piaget_in_Ann_Arbor.png << this pic of piaget-at-retirement-home perhaps best thing in context.
11:57 mircea_popescu dood's happy.
11:59 mircea_popescu ahh, this article. "Some examples [limited strictly to girls&faggots styles, because forcing the sisters to play victim in some sort of injuns&cowboys game is very much not what kids do first and foremost] of symbolic play include playing house, or having a tea party. "
12:00 mircea_popescu i kinda like the femtard rewrite of piaget. it's something i always wanted to see in my formative years, "what if there was a monastery of mongoloids somewhere, and they hand-copied the texts '''as best they cou;d''' ?". it'd have been solid gold for the anthropologist / historian of religion, back when he still cared. but... no such thing.
12:04 mircea_popescu until, of course, post-computerist age, when https://news.artnet.com/art-world/botched-restoration-of-jesus-fresco-miraculously-saves-spanish-town-197057 and of course wikipedia and so on.
12:06 phf hehe it's true, whatever learned through cliffsnotes, rewritten "in own words", with the originals on a bookshelf as totems of learning
12:07 mircea_popescu it';s something else.
12:08 mircea_popescu very much apropos, http://trilema.com/2013/so-are-they-really-about-to-fuck/
12:09 mircea_popescu because no, it's not such an idle question as all that -- there is a whole subset of four-five ish to maybe sixish year olds who genuinely look like they're just about to fuck but for the lack of functional organs and knowledge of function.
12:11 mircea_popescu children indeed do not nor ever do play "tea party" without insistent adult intervention -- and even then not long past its cessation. but children very much do play something errily akin to what today'd pass for "bdsm" accuplation, male dominated, female receptive sorta thing.
12:19 mircea_popescu and thanks fucking dog for the trilema, otherwise i'd be pretty hard pressed to make that whole 2013 point in the narrow space between two irc lines. or for that matter narrow time.
12:19 phf every "tea party" i've ever been invited to degraded very rapidly once parents were satisfied with their cursory inspection and left us alone. at the time i was convinced it was my doing, but now i realize that the cover up is the format
12:20 mircea_popescu just about.
12:23 mircea_popescu (the "best they could" line is, who could have ever guessed, a throwback to "il joue comme il peut, le pauvre" line in le petit baigneur. because i speak french, what! and "speak" dun mean "my hoovercraft is fulla eels", not here anyway.)
12:37 diana_coman phf, I've uploaded the updated keccak .vpatches for EuCrypt, let me know if there's any trouble: http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/#selection-39.0-41.16
12:39 phf diana_coman: kk, will test and upload
12:40 phf apropos i want to move vtools to keccak, but i'm not sure what's the best way to solve bootstrapping problem. a signed tar archive of a press that can be used to bootstrap or manual press instructions using gnu patch?
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12:41 phf open question for forum ^
12:42 mircea_popescu i frankly do not perceive we have a bootstrapping problem. bootstrapping occurs when you have to turn a primitive into an ulterior -- there is such a thing as a bootstrapping problem of the fetus into adulthood because all adults start as foetii.
12:43 mircea_popescu nevertheless, sha is historical accident, nothing starts as it, thence no boot. therefore -- just publish it self referentially and who dun like can go to hell.
12:43 asciilifeform phf: i dun see what's wrong with signed tar
12:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i gotta disagree re 'nothing starts as it', there is a history, and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851660 is a thing
12:45 a111 Logged on 2018-09-19 15:18 asciilifeform: diana_coman: i like the new v format, but i also very strongly wish to avoid coming to resemble the urbit people, with their 'aah we restarted the universe for the 7th time'
12:45 BingoBoingo I see not reason not to go with the tar seeing how gnupatch is enemy materials
12:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform but i mean, what's the boot sequence here contemplated ?
12:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: iirc phf previously had a thing that pressed with old v, to create the new. imho this is proper.
12:47 mircea_popescu can i have the boot sequence ?
12:47 asciilifeform but also gotta have a tar, there is no reason to force newcomers to set up ancient v prior to getting hold of the current.
12:47 mircea_popescu ikr.
12:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 2 boot sequences -- one for machines with old v ( and for dedicated historians who want whole history ) and other for the rest.
12:48 mircea_popescu but phf, who is the author of the thing, did not in fact lose his head and arm by the process of having released the "original" ie sha version. he can just as much authorship a "new" ie, keccak version. and it'll be EXACTLY as much a genesis as that was, in ALL respects.
12:49 mircea_popescu ie, that there's a relationship between "old" and "new" is a tenuous point, if by relationship is meant more than "phf wrote"
12:49 asciilifeform and it will be. but good chunk of the win from v, is to avoid offloading the work of 'is this the same or not' to meat, when it can be done 100% reliably by the mechanism.
12:50 mircea_popescu in the sense that you suspect he might be trustworthy in general, but a liar as to that specific narrowly construed topic ?
12:50 asciilifeform if it is actually same, this is trivially verified. but gotta have the simple mechanism there, rather than 'go write bash script'
12:50 mircea_popescu (notwithstanding how the narrow construction obviously reflects your own measuring tools and naught else ?)
12:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: a mechanically verifiable fact, when verifiable trivially, is superior to promise from anybody.
12:50 mircea_popescu if "phf signed" is ~not~ enough proof to you, then why is "phf signed" enough proof to you that his vtools doesn't come alive at night andf fuck my wife ?
12:51 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i do not agree that heuristic is useful.
12:51 asciilifeform phf can make mistake and sign a broken piece, just as asciilifeform on at least 1 occasion did
12:51 mircea_popescu and you want to build a State around protecting him thusly from himself ?
12:52 asciilifeform what state. simple mechanism, like pin.
12:52 asciilifeform or does mircea_popescu like those german grenades without pins.
12:52 mircea_popescu the best definition i currently have for "State" is "collection of simple mechanisms without actual function".
12:53 asciilifeform maintaining hard-continuity of history is nearly whole point, as i see it , of vtronics.
12:53 mircea_popescu this is true ; but in this case there's no continuity to be maintained. phf is the sole contributor of the entire tree.
12:54 mircea_popescu pretty much ~any~ regrind, regenesis, etc of this item bearing his signature is ~idempotent~ to extant material.
12:54 asciilifeform phf can, of course, release anyffing he likes, incl. to take an old proggy and make new genesis, and say 'any relation b/w this new and that there old, is happenstance'.
12:54 asciilifeform but imho this loses something valuable.
12:54 asciilifeform i try to avoid it when possible.
12:54 mircea_popescu kinda the "what exactly" delineation is the point of this discussion. obv the actual case is relatively unimportant.
12:55 mircea_popescu so -- what exactly is lost if phf just signs and publishes a new tree ?
12:55 mircea_popescu i could see the direct "well -- i had read his old one ; dun wanna re-read the new one, if it's same." but... i thought re-reading was one of our values ?
12:56 asciilifeform simple : that if i find that it doesn't work quite same as previous, i nao have to consider hypothesis that phf made a mistake.
12:56 asciilifeform and read whole thing, or at least diff it manually
12:56 mircea_popescu "yes mp, but best used other places, it's still expensive" "but if you think this is not the place, ie, trust phf... then why not trust him ?" "because i like to use the measuring tools i have whether needed or not" ?
12:56 asciilifeform rereading is great, but it isn't cost-free. if i sit down to reread trb , i'ma have to come back in a ~year
12:57 mircea_popescu right. then it follows, "but if you think this is not the place, ie, trust phf... then why not trust him ?". is your retort here what i imaginarily quoted, "because i like to use the measuring tools i have whether needed or not" ?
12:58 asciilifeform trust allah, but tie camel.
12:59 mircea_popescu i frankly don't see much problem with it either way ; but i will say that your lie-detectors suffer from a certain naivite, whereby they're tuned to catch reality lying (ie, something that has no reflexivity, will lie regardless of your apparatus). this is not so useful with people.
12:59 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in re regrinds in particular, i am more thinking of mistakes, than lies
12:59 mircea_popescu which is why the joib of research scientist and science educator diverges : you teach people by permitting them to get themselves caught. women, too.
13:01 asciilifeform asciilifeform does not have a stable of slaves to manually diff things. and so if at any point it appears to be necessary to hand-diff something, he is stuck doing it with own hands, and on that day, week, month, nuffing else of any use will come off conveyor.
13:01 mircea_popescu i somehow doubt re-reading his vtools is such a waste ; but anyways!
13:01 asciilifeform so from that pov , if it is possible to inexpensively avoid the situation, it is a win.
13:02 asciilifeform recall the thread with the tabs & spaces.
13:02 mircea_popescu alf did not go to school of scholarly beauty, "oh, that is the best one you've made so far, here, let me break it up for you and do it again".
13:03 asciilifeform this worx great for theorems, algos, but not so much for MB of coad soup
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13:03 mircea_popescu in diff life, alf will be convicted to be painter, go through above process, lose mind.
13:03 asciilifeform ( phf's item, in particular, incorporates a heavily cut but still pretty crufty ball of gnu c. this is not a stab at phf , but imho is a pertinent fact re 'cost of reading' )
13:03 mircea_popescu maybe the sadness of re-read forces you to fix some!
13:04 asciilifeform reread is great, but it is important for the work to actually be ~cumulative~
13:04 mircea_popescu as long as you patch on his keccak tree i can't see how it could not be.
13:05 asciilifeform cuz meat is a poor substitute for diff util. ( and diff util, in turn, is poor substitute for continuous v-sequence. )
13:06 asciilifeform even setting aside 'if phf made mistake', it is not physically impossible for bit to flip on his hdd at the moment of signing regrind.
13:07 mircea_popescu what's not physically impossible is that his code would greatly benefit from another read by an alf infuriated by the chore. but anyways!
13:12 asciilifeform tangentially on-thread, it still bothers asciilifeform that he was unable to represent the diff b/w mircea_popescu's bitcoin-0.5.3.tar.gz and the genesis as a vpatch ( neither orig v nor current is able to represent the deletion of binariolade... )
↖
13:12 asciilifeform ( either its deletion, or its insertion -- therefore impossible to encode the contents of that tar, as a genesis )
13:16 asciilifeform ... or, in same vein, the thing i ended up having to do in http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=fg case
13:17 * asciilifeform bbl,meat
~ 1 hours 7 minutes ~
14:25 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858905 -> why would you use gnu patch?
14:25 a111 Logged on 2018-10-06 16:40 phf: apropos i want to move vtools to keccak, but i'm not sure what's the best way to solve bootstrapping problem. a signed tar archive of a press that can be used to bootstrap or manual press instructions using gnu patch?
~ 1 hours ~
15:25 asciilifeform diana_coman: as i understand q was 'how to give n00b his 1st vtron'
15:27 diana_coman well, if it's "give" then it will have to be signed tar as far as I can tell, I still don't see why one would basically import gnu patch just in order to "give n00b" anything; the options are always either "take what exists i.e. on trust " (in which case archive) or "go and make your own" in which case what's the problem
15:28 asciilifeform diana_coman: i suspect idea was 'make him manually gpg --verify ... and then press by hand-gnupatch a la pre-v trb, better than signed tar'. but i'ma let phf clarify.
15:28 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/10/typhus-outbreak-in-los-angeles-california/ << Qntra - Typhus Outbreak In Los Angeles, California
15:31 asciilifeform diana_coman: both old and new-form vpatch can be pressed manually with gnupatch, sorta like old cars could be started with crank if you really had to
15:32 asciilifeform ( and i suspect it'll be a while before e.g. cuntoo is distributed entirely without gnupatch )
15:32 diana_coman the part I don't get is: what does "pressed manually with gnupatch" earn you vs "manually verify sig on this archive here"? (I assume the archive won't be 100MB of shit, ofc)
15:33 asciilifeform diana_coman: not having to have a separate signed-tar distribution, really is all.
15:34 asciilifeform keeping 2 separate forms of a nominally-identical proggy in sync, is a pain
15:36 diana_coman my understanding was that the starter would be just that, fixed minimal thing to get started, I don't see the need to change it and/or keep in sync
15:37 asciilifeform if it really is a certainty that the format will never change again -- then yes
15:37 asciilifeform but even if not changes, but minor refinements, e.g. the graph plotter -- n00bs will end up with old vtron, and then gotta press a newer
15:37 asciilifeform which is potentially headache
15:38 asciilifeform imho ideal case is when cuntoo is mature and errybody's expected to be on it, then the q resolves itself.
15:38 asciilifeform ( i.e. working vtron already present )
15:40 diana_coman in that case the "starter" is using cuntoo, sure
15:40 asciilifeform aha
15:41 asciilifeform way i picture it, is on cuntoo, equipped with wot keys, all you'd have to do is e.g. 'vmerge phf-v', 'vselect phf-v' and you get his latest.
15:43 asciilifeform ( i do not know if trinque is going with the old gentoo-flavoured terminology, but expect that process will be roughly similar )
15:44 trinque yeah, not being cute and renaming anything
15:44 trinque the thing's far too wrapped in on itself yet
15:45 asciilifeform trinque: was contemplating vtronic mechanism here, rather than 'cute' rename of the old emerge
15:45 trinque I do not intend to boil the ocean by replacing portage
15:46 trinque some other hero, can
15:46 trinque what I'm doing is replacing the "rsync ebuilds from server" mechanism
15:46 asciilifeform it was my understanding that it is eventually to happen. but i do recall that trinque's current item dun have it yet.
15:46 asciilifeform aha
15:47 trinque yep, I'm just making sure nobody expects more than "caught linux in working state at point in time" just yet
↖
15:47 asciilifeform right
15:47 asciilifeform 1st thing is to freeze the old tars, then slowly can vtronicize.
15:48 trinque mhm, perhaps source gets slurped directly into ebuild dirs as time goes on. open question yet how that step proceeds.
15:53 trinque also questionable whether there's such thing as a republican portage, or whether it all ought to be trashed for something gprbuild-based and with far less optionality.
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15:53 asciilifeform trinque: trashed, i'd hope, eventually
15:53 trinque same here.
15:54 trinque just a bridge off the infected island
15:54 asciilifeform trinque: i also have visions of integration with gossipd, where the thing, given a wot key, will know how to ask owner for $source item. but this is yet a bridge too far.
15:56 asciilifeform trinque: gprbuild is replacement for gnumake/autoconf liquishit, not so much for portagetron per se.
15:56 asciilifeform ( i have said before, would like to see the autoconf atrocity properly disappear into an unmarked grave )
15:57 trinque bsd ports tree uses exactly make for this
15:57 asciilifeform even from existing gnu liquishit, it is fairly easy, turns out, to remove ( e.g. as i did with the mpi that diana_coman made into the 1st half of eucrypt )
15:57 asciilifeform trinque: right
15:57 asciilifeform ( gentoo's did not )
15:58 asciilifeform imho gprbuild oughta stay separate item from vtron tho
15:58 asciilifeform ( i can't picture an integrated hybrid being less gnarly ; could be wrong about this tho )
15:58 trinque sure, vtron presses the ports tree, gprbuild builds
15:58 asciilifeform aha
16:02 asciilifeform ( my primary objection to a hypothetical hybrid, is that i often do work on boxes with no nic, and imho builder must not rely on connectivity )
16:03 trinque no need to chimerize where necessity doesn't force
16:03 asciilifeform aha. and it should be possible to operate a cuntoo box with sporadic, or no, net pipe.
↖
16:04 deedbot http://bimbo.club/?p=44 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/04/2018
16:05 asciilifeform 'Discussion regarding article about apple and amazon denied that Chinese spies implemented backdoor chips into hardware' << uhm, 'казнить нельзя помиловать'
↖
16:06 asciilifeform ( for non-ru folx -- traditional grammar school example of why gotta have correct punctuation, 'execute cannot spare' , toggleable opposite meanings with comma . anybody know of an engl-compatible version ? )
↖
~ 23 minutes ~
16:30 asciilifeform meanwhile, asciilifeform's pet volunteered a similar/popular engl example, 'the hookers hitler and stalin walked into the room'
16:32 trinque ah I was over here trying to figure out what webcomic that was, maybe oatmeal
~ 53 minutes ~
17:26 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859021 << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8_U68YXuqc&t=15m38s
17:26 a111 Logged on 2018-10-06 20:05 asciilifeform: 'Discussion regarding article about apple and amazon denied that Chinese spies implemented backdoor chips into hardware' << uhm, 'казнить нельзя помиловать'
~ 1 hours 8 minutes ~
18:35 asciilifeform phf: yes!!
18:35 asciilifeform ^ mega-classic
~ 38 minutes ~
19:14 mircea_popescu neither orig v nor current is able to represent the deletion << no FUCKING way.
19:14 mircea_popescu the whole fucking point of the entire new v was to be able to represent deletion of files.
19:14 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: binaries
19:14 asciilifeform neither gnudiff nor the new one, knows how to eat'em
19:16 asciilifeform recall the 'fg schematics' pain thread.
19:16 mircea_popescu we discussed this extensively, before phf even started. new vtools is perfectly capable of describing the deletion/movement/etc of ~any files~.
19:17 asciilifeform hm did it throw out the 'deletions must be reversible' thing ? now i gotta try it..
19:17 asciilifeform ( ~insertion~ of binaries still not representable afaik, in any known difftron )
19:18 mircea_popescu i really don't like this constant process you got in your head going sed -e 's/i don't know/doesn't exist/' everything-i-never-read.txt
19:18 asciilifeform i did say 'afaik' neh
19:18 mircea_popescu helps ~nothing.
19:20 * asciilifeform goes to experiment
19:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: sadly enuff, i was right in re the current phf-vdiff . observe : a) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/5ZYgF/?raw=true << example of deleting a text file. in fact uses same deletion representation as ordinary gnudiff, where entire payload is quoted. b) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/vl2Ca/?raw=true << attempt to represent deletion of 1MB from FG. result : same as in oldschool gnudiff.
↖
19:24 asciilifeform and i do recall that mircea_popescu specced this feature. but seems like it aint there yet.
19:24 mircea_popescu wtf.
19:25 asciilifeform try it yourself.
19:25 asciilifeform i am testing the version given in http://barksinthewind.com/2018/vtools-keccak-regrind/ .
19:32 phf asciilifeform is right, i dropped the ball on it. i prototyped it right after we had a conversation, and then i had the four months of fiat work, and i forgot that it was on my plate.
19:32 asciilifeform phf: didja ever discover an algo for doing this without breaking with classical diff format ?
19:33 asciilifeform or is this a perpetuum mobile
19:33 mircea_popescu tsk.
19:33 mircea_popescu asciilifeform we had solution to that, whole discussion with fully specified filenames, on it goes.
19:34 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: rright but afaik it does break format.
19:34 mircea_popescu i don't give a shit. let all format breakingds HAPPEN AT ONCE
19:34 asciilifeform ( recall, i did not have objection to breaking it thusly, imho oughta be able to represent bins )
19:34 mircea_popescu phf what the fuck are you doing to me!
19:34 asciilifeform aha !
19:35 asciilifeform this is why i was not hurrying to regrind, thought (turns out correctly) that the new vdiff ain't 100% yet
19:36 mircea_popescu oh this is why!
19:36 mircea_popescu motherfucker...
19:36 asciilifeform 1 of the 2 whys
19:36 asciilifeform then diana_coman & mircea_popescu say 'wtf your waiting for' so thought 'so it's done...'
19:38 asciilifeform diana_coman evidently did not test this ( not really criticism of diana_coman , iirc we did decide that republican proggies ought not to include raw binariolade )
19:38 phf format breaks only in a sense that gnu patch won't press it. current vpatches that don't delete/rename (since the feature is not there) will never the less work with any future changes to vtools
↖
19:38 asciilifeform phf: if binariola handler is added carefully, then yes, should not break existing patches
19:38 asciilifeform ( i suggested several ways of doing this )
19:38 mircea_popescu phf i am very not happy with the situation.
19:39 phf mircea_popescu: i understand, it's the height of idiocy on my part
19:40 asciilifeform phf: do ya think you can post the binaries-eating version soon-ish ? i'd like to regrind FG, for example.
19:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: do you have bins in eulora tree ?
19:45 asciilifeform ( graphics ? )
19:45 asciilifeform how is it that i'm the first to notice this hole.
19:47 phf asciilifeform: because binary we've been going back and forth on over many conversations over the past year. e.g. mp-wp was rewritten to not use binaries because around the time the resolution was to not pack binaries into vpatches and instead move in the direction of human readable formats
19:48 asciilifeform phf: rright but i distinctly recall that it was settled in favour of 'gotta have bin diffing'
19:49 asciilifeform phf: if you already have the coad for this, let's have it; otherwise i have a cl needleman-wunsch routine that i will adaize.
19:50 deedbot http://trilema.com/2018/minigame-smg-september-2018-statement/ << Trilema - MiniGame (S.MG), September 2018 Statement
19:51 phf asciilifeform: i don't have binary diffing even in prototype form, if you could adaize your needleman-wunsch i could add it to vtools, the way i did with diana_coman's keccak
↖
19:52 phf my first priority is to revive delete/rename though since i have algo and code for it
19:52 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: do we want bin ~creations~ or only deletions ?
19:52 asciilifeform if only the former, then what phf said
19:52 asciilifeform err, latter
19:52 asciilifeform ( if only deletions, than the file renameage thing will suffice )
19:54 asciilifeform also while mircea_popescu is awake : if you have the dest # for the 1-800 thing, plox to gpggram, i'ma bake it ( theoretically oughta be live in day or 2 from revv-up )
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19:55 phf there are three distinct options: deletions and renames (which is handled by mp algo), creations (that can be handled by e.g. <size><content in hex>) and diffing (which is top complexity, needing e.g. needleman-wunsch)
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19:57 asciilifeform phf: creations & diffs do not presently have a standard format; if mircea_popescu says that we need it, will have to make one.
19:57 asciilifeform ( creations & diffs for bins, specifically )
19:58 phf asciilifeform: right
19:58 phf i have couple of hours tomorrow, so i'll pick up the deletions and renames code either way, and either release it, or give an estimate for how long it will take me to bake it
↖ ↖
19:59 asciilifeform ty phf
20:01 asciilifeform phf: recall, this is why asciilifeform earlier wanted a non-linecentric diff representation. then would not need special cases for clean ascii & bins.
20:01 asciilifeform but nobody liked this, seems like errybody is addicted to lines.
20:02 phf asciilifeform: i think the divergent points were a lot more elaborate than this particular reduction
20:03 asciilifeform possibly, i'ma have to rewalk the pertinent l0gz when i get a chance
20:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform bins in mp-wp tree, hanbot expertly ascii-ized.
20:04 asciilifeform ah so no raw bins presently
20:04 asciilifeform not in eulora either ? also asciilzied ?
20:05 mircea_popescu you mean the client ? no-one's even bothered to genesis thart yet ; being replaced i expect.
↖
20:05 asciilifeform ah
20:05 mircea_popescu there was NO discussion of "bion diffing". nor will there be. there was specified support ~for deletion of files~, which is WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT
20:06 mircea_popescu stop fucking squigee-ing around for maximum damage. what you're damaging is your own fucking house.
20:06 asciilifeform if start of thread is http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858965 , then mircea_popescu is correct, deletions suffice
20:06 a111 Logged on 2018-10-06 17:12 asciilifeform: tangentially on-thread, it still bothers asciilifeform that he was unable to represent the diff b/w mircea_popescu's bitcoin-0.5.3.tar.gz and the genesis as a vpatch ( neither orig v nor current is able to represent the deletion of binariolade... )
20:07 asciilifeform phf then you dun need bin diff/create.
20:07 mircea_popescu right. phf was supposed to have ~support for deletion/movement/fullspecified filename~ baked in.
20:08 mircea_popescu i can't currently conceive how the fuck he even MADE a vtools without it, because it was a root node and nothing works without it anyway (eg, i expect all the hashes he calculates are wrong)
20:08 mircea_popescu but i am not currently in a position to take a day off and review poorly executed jobs in detail.
20:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i'm mapping out the size of the hole, rather than dancing on mircea_popescu's toes for phun; have patience, if i've found this earlier, yer toes would not hurt nao.
20:09 mircea_popescu phf when you calculate the file hash, do you take ~the full name~ plus "the content or just "the content" ?
20:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if he's stuck to the old gnudiff format, which per my test appears to be the case, names aint hashed at all ( they're covered by the gpg sig of given patch, but that's it )
20:10 mircea_popescu which is the fucking reason we even rewrote it.
20:10 asciilifeform i actually posted an experimental vtron that hashed the names
20:11 asciilifeform ( http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-March/000293.html ; http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-April/000296.html demo )
20:11 asciilifeform but afaik this did not make it to the spec table
20:12 phf mircea_popescu: the later, but i don't think that was the last iteration of your algorithm
20:12 phf i'm trying to find the relevant thread right now
20:12 mircea_popescu well now i'm reading through all dis, what can do. phf's four months at work resulted in same many months of rot, now we don't recall the spec, log is long, life is short, so on an' so forth.
20:13 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: didja ever post a eulora-style full spec for the thing btw ?
20:13 asciilifeform or only exists in log
20:13 mircea_popescu only in log.
20:13 asciilifeform this is dangerous, really oughta have spec, it's what sets us apart from teh apes
20:14 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-02#1792096 eg.
20:14 a111 Logged on 2018-04-02 23:57 mircea_popescu: at which juncture i suppose it'd pay to check, huh. hey phf, my memory of logs discussion includes this item whereby the above problem was fully resolved by declaring the path as inseparable part of the filename. you on the same page ?
20:14 mircea_popescu apparently didn't so much pay to check.
20:16 phf and later i say we're on the same page, and i have no idea why and how
20:17 mircea_popescu and ~i~ should have written a blog article about it ? wtf would i put in it ?
20:18 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-03#1792105 << closest i found to spec for mircea_popescu's algo .
20:18 a111 Logged on 2018-04-03 00:02 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the logged discussion on the topic was, "if hashes match but paths do not, the file was moved ; if hashes match and paths match, the file is untouched ; if hashes do not match but paths match the file was modified ; if hashes do not match and paths do not match the file was created/deleted"
20:19 mircea_popescu this is correct ; my above "hash the filename" was incorrect, or rather, inexact.
20:19 asciilifeform it's entirely workable .
20:19 asciilifeform ( in thread, mircea_popescu detailed how to make it go )
20:19 mircea_popescu right.
20:20 asciilifeform phf: i think errything you need, is in there.
20:21 phf yes, i remember the algo, and algo requires that the hash is just of content. i thought i was entirely insane, because immediately after "hash the name + content" i say "we're on the same page"
20:21 mircea_popescu phf "inseparable part of filename" != "hashed".
20:21 mircea_popescu as i say, my latter statement of the notion was misleading & vague.
20:22 mircea_popescu kinda what the problem is with these "brought back from the swamps of memory" items, the result takes some washing.
20:22 phf mircea_popescu: the next line after the one you quoted is "all files are identified by hashesof their name and content"
20:22 mircea_popescu i am aware.
20:23 asciilifeform it is my understanding tho that it is impossible to apply the algo in the thread if one were to make file name part of file's hash.
20:23 asciilifeform ( could no longer identify moved files automatically )
20:23 mircea_popescu right.
20:25 asciilifeform file names are covered by the gpg seal of given patch, tho, so it isn't as if people can get away with blindly renaming items in a patch. so if taking all of mircea_popescu's algo but the hashed-names part, you have a usable algo.
20:26 asciilifeform and it dun even break the ancient format.
20:26 phf asciilifeform: right, all the contemplated extensions were supposed to be backwards compatible. the ancient format allows for a lot of necessary leeway
20:27 mircea_popescu i recall the succesion of steps of 1. being very happy with solution that was all smiles and no bruises ; 2. being satisfied that the people involved understood 1 ; 3. unloaded it from head. now in the nightmare consequent of "4. wait, what was it ?"
20:29 mircea_popescu anyway, leaving aside the past half hour of chaos : how can it be simultaneously true that a) delivered item matches 3rd of april algo and b) http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859041 ?!
20:29 a111 Logged on 2018-10-06 23:24 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sadly enuff, i was right in re the current phf-vdiff . observe : a) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/5ZYgF/?raw=true << example of deleting a text file. in fact uses same deletion representation as ordinary gnudiff, where entire payload is quoted. b) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/vl2Ca/?raw=true << attempt to represent deletion of 1MB from FG. result : same as in oldschool gnudiff.
20:37 phf mircea_popescu: delivered item does not match 3rd of april algo. the algo was invented after delivered item was fully implemented with the idea that the algorithm can be added to the item transparently. but it was also around the time that i could no longer work on the item, so it remained unchanged since then
20:38 * asciilifeform bbl,food
~ 15 minutes ~
20:53 mircea_popescu well, we'll hafta do something here ;/
20:55 phf mircea_popescu: well, short of cutting my head off, or handing it over, i can add the missing bits
20:55 mircea_popescu please.
20:56 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859086
20:56 a111 Logged on 2018-10-06 23:58 phf: i have couple of hours tomorrow, so i'll pick up the deletions and renames code either way, and either release it, or give an estimate for how long it will take me to bake it
21:06 BingoBoingo As I await the board to approve the Pizarro report I bring a nugget from the research mines: "Just try to have a good time and work hard to find a better job. Budtending is nowhere land."
21:07 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858998 << as far as anyone knows, it's still ~experimental~ item anyway. not that it'd be nice for it to work, but really, expecting ? i ain't expecting it to. it's a wonder things like eg http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858794 worked, but i frankly was not expecting anything as lofty as "piece of hardware can be made to work"
21:07 a111 Logged on 2018-10-06 19:47 trinque: yep, I'm just making sure nobody expects more than "caught linux in working state at point in time" just yet
21:07 a111 Logged on 2018-10-06 14:27 mircea_popescu: brought about by y.t. fixing http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-26#1854603 through generous application of sewed out linux-wireless-compat-blabla. turns out the aeteron pci board included (mysteriously dubbed "revision 0032") works with cca 2015 vintage drivers, and them only.
21:07 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo wut is budtending ? serving budweiser ?
21:08 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: It's what the kids who weren't good enough to hussle on the corner call themselves when they work slinging redditized Monsanto behind a counter
21:08 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859002 << i can't say as i understand wtf portage even is ; and i nurse some doubts as to whether anyone (yes, yes, i know you know what you'd want it to be. however...)
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21:08 a111 Logged on 2018-10-06 19:53 trinque: also questionable whether there's such thing as a republican portage, or whether it all ought to be trashed for something gprbuild-based and with far less optionality.
21:08 mircea_popescu oh, like barristas for pot ?
21:09 BingoBoingo Yeah
21:09 BingoBoingo Pretense and all
21:12 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859019 << certainly.
21:12 a111 Logged on 2018-10-06 20:03 asciilifeform: aha. and it should be possible to operate a cuntoo box with sporadic, or no, net pipe.
21:13 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859022 << "woman without her man is nothing"
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21:13 a111 Logged on 2018-10-06 20:06 asciilifeform: ( for non-ru folx -- traditional grammar school example of why gotta have correct punctuation, 'execute cannot spare' , toggleable opposite meanings with comma . anybody know of an engl-compatible version ? )
~ 25 minutes ~
21:38 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859081 +506 7250 3898 (that + is 011 from us/cadana afaik).
21:38 a111 Logged on 2018-10-06 23:54 asciilifeform: also while mircea_popescu is awake : if you have the dest # for the 1-800 thing, plox to gpggram, i'ma bake it ( theoretically oughta be live in day or 2 from revv-up )
21:39 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859082 << are you saying creations are not handled by linked algo ?
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21:39 a111 Logged on 2018-10-06 23:55 phf: there are three distinct options: deletions and renames (which is handled by mp algo), creations (that can be handled by e.g. <size><content in hex>) and diffing (which is top complexity, needing e.g. needleman-wunsch)
21:41 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-07#1859095 << (important furtherance here : protocol as is being baked kinda removes all binary-ism from client tree, data to be received and cached as data rather than mangled into source tree as a sort of "divine cache" as currently practiced by ~all morons involved in gaming)
21:41 a111 Logged on 2018-10-07 00:05 mircea_popescu: you mean the client ? no-one's even bothered to genesis thart yet ; being replaced i expect.
~ 25 minutes ~
22:06 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-07#1859170 << that part of the discussion was about binary (the algo doesn't discriminate text or binary, but there's no support for binary creation in format), it was a panicked detour, that has been since resolved with "there's no binary in vpatch"
22:06 a111 Logged on 2018-10-07 01:39 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859082 << are you saying creations are not handled by linked algo ?
~ 15 minutes ~
22:21 mircea_popescu cool.
~ 22 minutes ~
22:44 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-07#1859159 << portage was the closest thing there was to 'where asciilifeform cribbed concept for v' -- except that it never worked well at all
22:44 a111 Logged on 2018-10-07 01:08 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859002 << i can't say as i understand wtf portage even is ; and i nurse some doubts as to whether anyone (yes, yes, i know you know what you'd want it to be. however...)
22:45 asciilifeform ( aside from rampant brokenness, in the years since gentoo author took 30 silvers from microshit and fucked it all ) would routinely get into circular wedges and fail in other 'interesting' ways
22:45 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-07#1859166 << how do i turn this into 2 possible sentences ? i only see 1...
22:45 a111 Logged on 2018-10-07 01:13 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859022 << "woman without her man is nothing"
22:47 mircea_popescu "woman, without her man, is nothing" "woman. without her, man is nothing"
22:48 asciilifeform aaa ~two~ punctuators aite
22:48 mircea_popescu only one changes.
22:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: how much traffic do you expect on the 800..? there's variant 14.49/0.07min and 17.99/0.066min where latter includes 223/mo
22:49 mircea_popescu not like my hand calc even can tell the diff of dust between 15 and 18 dubaloos.
22:49 mircea_popescu get the latter, why not. feel free to test it once on, also, give the girl a start.
22:49 asciilifeform aite i'ma get the slightly cheaper-per one, we can switch laters
22:50 mircea_popescu i dunno why we'd ever switch it lol. worst comes to worst, we use it like those old kgb stations, "voice of woman reading number sets"
22:51 asciilifeform lolyes
22:52 asciilifeform ok ordered
22:52 asciilifeform somebody's gonna call the # apparently
22:52 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: wake up the chix...
22:52 mircea_popescu she needs to say something or anything specific ?
22:53 asciilifeform unknown
22:53 asciilifeform 'Step 1 - An account manager will call you to confirm and activate your service'
22:53 mircea_popescu aok.
22:53 asciilifeform cheap enuff experiment.
22:53 asciilifeform if it eats my 'can of soda' coin, i'ma try another
23:01 asciilifeform hrm, acct worx, no #s showing yet
23:01 asciilifeform prolly pending confirm on bananistan end
23:01 mircea_popescu this is a coffeestan!
23:04 mircea_popescu this is a coffee, stan!
23:05 asciilifeform lol
23:08 asciilifeform 'One of our representatives will review your order and enable your account shortly'
23:20 mircea_popescu https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Reynolds's_Political_Map_of_the_United_States_1856.jpg << pretty great actuarial item on the bottom of this. who knew ohio was 2nd largest state, ~6 californias ? who knew florida was smaller than rhode island ?
23:23 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858859 << speaking of which, edythe baker!!
23:23 a111 Logged on 2018-10-06 15:13 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand, it was actually ~roll piano~ that nuked 'entertain self' music, rather than the scratchy phonograph of the time
23:35 mircea_popescu nicoleci your phone became the end point for the bitcoin foundation's 800 number. if anyone calls do teh professional, and report here any issues or q's.
23:36 mircea_popescu mod6 asciilifeform do you want her to prepare a script or anything ? fixed greeting ?
23:36 asciilifeform latest update -- they ate asciilifeform's 17bux, but did not disgorge a form for choosing the # yet
23:36 asciilifeform i suspect it's at least partially meat-powered shop : 'Please be advised that a sales (Account manager) will reach out to you at their earliest convenience .'
23:36 nicoleci mircea_popescu, yes, Master
23:36 mircea_popescu not like there's some rush.
23:36 asciilifeform tru
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