Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-09-07 | 2016-09-09 → ↓
00:12 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
00:12 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 613.23, vol: 4473.92758409 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 608.178, vol: 3866.27835 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 618.99, vol: 5902.85970551 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 612.465038, vol: 233710.90860000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 615.5, vol: 1011.87424192 | Volume-weighted last average: 612.579248193
00:14 hanbot i think tropar is solely for hymns about saints or religious occasions. otherwise there's all sortsa hymns (imnuri), iirc there's even one for some mental hospital
00:14 mircea_popescu aaand in other news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/bd4a525792f2c1f43c06b20ca45b2289/tumblr_od15foblaK1srkdaoo1_1280.jpg
00:15 mircea_popescu !~later tell asciilifeform it's either a short church hymn or (as used here) the "general rule".
00:15 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
00:21 BingoBoingo https://archive.is/i0vqq
00:22 mircea_popescu lol.
00:22 mircea_popescu riiight.
00:24 hanbot "Now I am my current weight" << I bet she calls it Her Weight.
00:24 mircea_popescu fatlogic. so fat woman isn't going to tell him all he wants ot hear ; this is a skinny chick skill only.
00:25 mircea_popescu somehow the fact that the skinny chick does all the talk the fat chick would gladly do in her stead AND ALSO HITS THE GYM is to escape our notice. because... shallow.
00:27 hanbot That is obsured. You need to open up your eyes if you wish.
00:27 mircea_popescu lol this dumb shit seriously exist ? "find a gold digger online dot com" ?
00:28 mircea_popescu https://archive.li/UXRrF/362bbd285be8fbabae6b2a2636e1d70ae78fb732.jpg My husband is my life, my mentor, my best friend, my partner in crime and he means the world to me. I am his priority and he lives to make me happy. Read more>>
00:29 mircea_popescu actually this thing might have the largest female population, simple because seeing pretty brunette with old looking rich dude is like salt in fatty's wounds. and what tru woman can resist salt in her wounds ?
00:31 BingoBoingo !up ascii_zimbabwe
00:31 mircea_popescu meanwhile at "i work hard for my keep" farm, http://66.media.tumblr.com/c1457195eb1d8fe956f913c4ea0dab97/tumblr_nxx05tgmXW1uo74i4o1_1280.jpg
00:32 BingoBoingo !!up ascii_zimbabwe
00:32 deedbot ascii_zimbabwe voiced for 30 minutes.
00:32 ascii_zimbabwe ty BingoBoingo .
00:33 ascii_zimbabwe fiber dead. zoolag and asciilifeform down until tomorrow noon at earliest.
00:34 mircea_popescu heh
00:36 BingoBoingo OMG and I, I live in a rural backwater?!
00:36 ascii_zimbabwe BingoBoingo: what's the record uptime on your node ?
00:37 BingoBoingo ~4 weeks
00:37 ascii_zimbabwe lol.
00:37 BingoBoingo And then goes down to back up blockchain and block index
00:38 ascii_zimbabwe why the hell would you back up a node ?
00:39 trinque because trb demons not fully enumerated
00:39 BingoBoingo Because paranoia?
00:39 ascii_zimbabwe 'dumpblock' it.
00:39 BingoBoingo ABout block index getting corrupted and resync hell if power blips in wrong way that exceeds otherwise ample batteries
00:40 ascii_zimbabwe (index regens when you 'eatblock')
00:41 BingoBoingo I have yet to bolt that on.
00:44 ascii_zimbabwe anyway i suppose it's probably time to build that mircea_popescutron.
00:44 ascii_zimbabwe (where failed pipe silently falls back on next pipe, and next, and so on.)
00:45 ascii_zimbabwe i dun have this now only because it doesn't play well with trb.
00:45 ascii_zimbabwe and not, as is not hard to guess, because lacking the pipes.
00:46 ascii_zimbabwe pipes - can be had.
00:46 ascii_zimbabwe popescutrons take actual sweat to build.
00:46 ascii_zimbabwe esp. since i dun use konsoomer - or ciscotronic - net hardware.
00:49 ascii_zimbabwe BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_and_now_we_have_block_dumper_corrected
00:49 ascii_zimbabwe anyway, laters.
~ 30 minutes ~
01:20 ben_vulpes buddy of mine builds, sells and operates linux boxes that mux net connections together for durable connections
01:20 ben_vulpes also leases you the line-of-sight for the top of your building, and that connection
01:21 ben_vulpes and can sell you the cell connection
~ 19 minutes ~
01:41 BingoBoingo Inception http://qntra.net/2016/09/black-man-shot-in-north-saint-louis-county/#comment-69578
~ 2 hours 55 minutes ~
04:36 Framedragger http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/from:62/to:62#62 << okay okay i'll disable the "be able to spit out multiple lines" thing on bot until a saner thing is conjured (like being able to send multiple lines to some user via privmsg). if you have to manually edit urls every time that's just crazy
04:36 scriba Logged on 2016-09-08: [00:39:18] <mircea_popescu> now ima have to police my urls o.
04:37 Framedragger ftr there's now a kind of deployment process so i have to make changes in dev branch, make a commit, and then pull from a separate repo which has the dev branch as its upstream. AND I LIKE IT THAT WAY!!1
04:40 Framedragger and btw still curious about http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160907/from:504/to:504#504
04:40 scriba Logged on 2016-09-07: [10:05:58] <Framedragger> incidentally, how would one go about doing development across branches in V? or is that fiat fancy to be banished from all that is good? :)
~ 1 hours 5 minutes ~
05:46 trinque Framedragger: your branches are merely pointers to different heads in a tree
05:46 trinque V asks you which head you'd like to press
05:51 trinque "automatic merging" meanwhile isn't even a thing. that two hunks in a file didn't collide has no bearing on whether they semantically ought to coexist.
05:52 trinque human's job
~ 33 minutes ~
06:26 Framedragger i do see your point. and, sure, branches are pointers to heads
~ 20 minutes ~
06:46 Framedragger okay, no more multi-line quotes, for now. http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160907/from:497/to:499#497
06:46 scriba Logged on 2016-09-07: [09:34:23] <Framedragger> to*
06:47 Framedragger also, anchor-based line specification is preferred over "from:" - http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160907/from:497/to:499#499
06:47 scriba Logged on 2016-09-07: [09:50:09] <Framedragger> !#hello
~ 2 hours ~
08:47 shinohai !~up GoldBoriska
08:47 jhvh1 shinohai: Error: I need to be at least halfopped to voice someone.
08:47 shinohai !!Up GoldBoriska
08:47 deedbot GoldBoriska voiced for 30 minutes.
08:47 GoldBoriska !!register 99F6B4D0DC13971D331B0FCFE4F1813EA44CB574
08:47 deedbot Import failed for 99F6B4D0DC13971D331B0FCFE4F1813EA44CB574.
08:48 GoldBoriska !register 99F6B4D0DC13971D331B0FCFE4F1813EA44CB574
08:48 shinohai GoldBoriska: sent you pm
08:59 mircea_popescu http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/#323 << do we even have an yumpblock, bro ?
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08:59 scriba Logged on 2016-09-08: [04:39:50] <ascii_zimbabwe> 'dumpblock' it.
09:00 Framedragger mircea_popescu: just so you know, no need to manually alter urls yourself anymore. unless you have a fetish for that, of course!
09:00 mircea_popescu and why not ?
09:01 Framedragger why no need?
09:01 Framedragger http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/from:352/to:352#352 and http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/from:352/to:354#354
09:01 scriba Logged on 2016-09-08: [10:47:11] <Framedragger> also, anchor-based line specification is preferred over "from:" - http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160907/from:497/to:499#499
09:01 Framedragger http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/from:352/to:354#354
09:01 scriba Logged on 2016-09-08: [10:47:11] <Framedragger> also, anchor-based line specification is preferred over "from:" - http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160907/from:497/to:499#499
09:02 Framedragger fuck
09:02 Framedragger http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/from:352/to:352#352
09:02 scriba Logged on 2016-09-08: [10:46:52] <Framedragger> okay, no more multi-line quotes, for now. http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160907/from:497/to:499#497
09:02 mircea_popescu http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/from:333/to:333#333 << if you use special order gear the correct move is to put it in the last layer. not like YOUR ROUTER is going down. having the collection of pipes work on heathen hardware is fine ; and until and unless you actually replace all internet infrastructure with s.nsa gear, your sweat used here is sweat wasted.
09:02 scriba Logged on 2016-09-08: [04:46:59] <ascii_zimbabwe> esp. since i dun use konsoomer - or ciscotronic - net hardware.
09:02 mircea_popescu learn to not waste sweat, be amazed at extra hands growing out of you!
09:03 mircea_popescu Framedragger tell you what, if i'm on any page like that and i right click an url it gives me a fucked up thing that dun work rather than a link to the thing i right clicked on. so i'm stuck processing them further.
09:03 mircea_popescu as seen yesterday
09:04 Framedragger mircea_popescu: gotcha. will simply things. unnecessary complexity indeed
09:06 mircea_popescu http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/from:345/to:345#345 << explain what you mean by "development across branches"
09:06 scriba Logged on 2016-09-08: [08:40:14] <scriba> Logged on 2016-09-07: [10:05:58] <Framedragger> incidentally, how would one go about doing development across branches in V? or is that fiat fancy to be banished from all that is good? :)
09:07 shinohai I thought the purpose of V was to excise git-think from the mind.
09:08 mircea_popescu yes, but ideally without leaving any root. so it's best to fully understand what he wants to do first.
09:09 mircea_popescu "don't go to frat party barefoot, here's a car" is a shitload better than "don't go to frat party barefoot, here's the bus to church"
09:10 mircea_popescu (and ftr : the "faster" angle is a minor concern here. human on foot ought to do ~10-12kph ; there's no guarantee car manages to do half that. meanwhile, the "not cutting your soles to shreds" IS a major concern.)
09:13 mircea_popescu and in other news, https://67.media.tumblr.com/3131badbb9a970a347ecb5425b4f9494/tumblr_mra65tJ8oI1qgv7t5o1_1280.jpg
09:14 Framedragger mircea_popescu: there is an implied assumption here of a "large enough" codebase (deliberately vague quantifier here). why i'm using it for scriba: 'cause i like it; and the latter's not a great argument. *but* if you have a large enough project with multiple people working on it, then:
09:14 mircea_popescu "i like it" is a great argument.
09:15 Framedragger 1) you may want to retain several versions of the thing you're developing - production, testing environment, development, some-large-feature-im-working-on-thats-currently-breaking-everything
09:15 Framedragger mircea_popescu: well... yeah, maybe :)
09:15 mircea_popescu you make special sigs for these cases.
09:15 Framedragger 2) while automatic merges mask deeper problems (as trinque may have implied) and may or may not be cancer, having many developers be able to work on the same codebase and later easily solve code conflicts is fucking *great*
09:16 mircea_popescu yeah. here's the thing :
09:16 Framedragger right. perhaps it's a matter of writing scripts to automate this stuff for V.
↖
09:16 mircea_popescu no, no. listen :
09:16 mircea_popescu V is a publishing mechanism. it allows people to interact that don't know each other. it is very much like bitcoin : to achieve this glorious ends it has some costs.
09:17 mircea_popescu you and your coworker will likely not need, or want to eat the overhead, of keeping track of who owes who coffee via blockchain. also we don'tgive a shit, sort it out yourselves.
09:17 Framedragger (i understand it's not supposed to make any wanna-be-git development easy)
09:17 Framedragger right.
09:17 Framedragger aha
09:17 mircea_popescu so collaboration, inasmuch as it's a private act (your tulpas, your friends, w/e) needn't be on v ; just like it needn't be on github, or on git. lots of code development happens on the holy napkin.
09:18 Framedragger shit, i just got what you're trying to say - i'm slow. it's only a publishing mechanism. how to collaborate internally is another matter. yes, nice separation of concerns. (though i suspect people have thought how to do proper collaboration in V as well - emails with vdiffs etc)
09:18 mircea_popescu all this said : if you are using v, then the correct way to use v for this purpose is, to make multi signatures. there's "his lordship framedragger, of the most serene republic". there can also be "this'll fuck you up".
09:18 mircea_popescu if people want to have a working product, or evaluate your person, they will put the first in their sig files.
09:19 mircea_popescu but if they want to work with you on X, there's nothing to keep them from putting the 2nd in a - presumably - different environment.
09:19 mircea_popescu the advantages of V remain, such as automatic conflict resolution.
09:19 mircea_popescu because it's impossible to write conflicts into V.
09:20 Framedragger right. i *think* i get it. i mean, fair enough. and i should try to publish with it huh.
09:20 Framedragger (multiple sigs, okok.)
09:20 mircea_popescu (incidentally - "conflicts", as a git/github concept are both a) a direct equivalent of doublespends and b) a very convenient and for this reason perhaps deliberate rock under which to hide from responsibility
09:21 mircea_popescu because wener kock's incredibly cheeky "i fucked it all up ha-ha!" is not coming out of the martian spaceship. it's coming out of - hey, we already "solve" conflicts hurr.)
09:22 mircea_popescu Framedragger is there a remainder ?
09:25 Framedragger mircea_popescu: you mean in the sense of a logical "third"? i'm not sure. i guess i get it conceptually, re. conflicts; but on a more mundane practical level, conflicts happen because, say, two people implemented some particular thing a bit differently; or their feature touched upon code from another place which was also being worked at; whatever
09:25 mircea_popescu no, in the sense "that's all nice and good, but here's what i still want to do and it's not covered"
09:25 Framedragger i don't see why this necessarily yields some kind of conceptual moral failure or whatever
09:25 Framedragger right
09:25 mircea_popescu ah, that sort of conflict is to be resolved talmudically : they both review the code, jointly issue a version./
09:26 Framedragger mhm.
09:26 mircea_popescu it takes a bit more time, but it guarantees a result MUCH better than current.
09:26 mircea_popescu the way i see it is, kids today are like, overexcited.
09:26 mircea_popescu they put in 80% of the effort, scoop out 20% of the ore.
09:26 mircea_popescu dude. add a 10%, get THREE TIMES YOUR CURRENT RESULTS
09:27 mircea_popescu i am willing to bet you that in any case as we imagine ehre, where two competent coders rushed like teenage athletes to stripper cunt and each implemented slighly variant solutions to the same problem,
09:27 mircea_popescu if they put in the extra half hour to write a joint statement of their individual solutions they'd produce code that'd shame gabriel.
09:27 mircea_popescu i don't mean laddel, i mean the other one.
09:28 Framedragger you may be just right; fwiw i have the same inkling feeling, hm
09:28 Framedragger "overengineering minutia and spending cognitive resources on bullshit" - maybe
09:28 * mircea_popescu is slowly turning into an ancient dragon of the "i hate your kind ; i just don't hate you personally. yet." persuasion.
09:29 mircea_popescu Framedragger if it's minutia why are you writing it ?
09:29 mircea_popescu the only definition of minutia acceptable here is "it's in the stdlib dude"
09:31 Framedragger well fwiw i'm not overusing it. i don't subscribe to the "resolve cosmetic conflicts by doing more redundant work" thing, either;and i don't do it
09:31 Framedragger i understand that i'd be more internally..consistent if i just ditched the *whole* thing, however.
09:31 mircea_popescu overusing who ? and what's a cosmetic conflict ?
09:32 thestringpuller ;;seen shinohai
09:32 thestringpuller is gribble not voiced?
09:32 shinohai !~seen shinohai
09:32 jhvh1 shinohai: shinohai was last seen in #trilema 24 minutes and 43 seconds ago: <shinohai> I thought the purpose of V was to excise git-think from the mind.
09:32 Framedragger cosmetic conflict = differently arranged lines or multiple implementations of some simplistic algorithm; overusing the whole "develop in multiple branches and merge things and stuff" thing. sorry - multitasking; trying to eradicate this habit fwiw.
09:32 mircea_popescu i multitask too, what. nothign wrong with it.
09:33 thestringpuller What happened to not banning gribble! Don't disenfranchise the nice bot!
09:33 mircea_popescu i didn't ban it ?
09:33 thestringpuller i'm jk'ing
09:33 thestringpuller y so srs
09:33 shinohai Nothing, mircea_popescu decided to light fire under shinohai 's ass with bickening article I suppose
09:34 mircea_popescu Framedragger i'm not the end all be all in project management for computer software. however, it seems to me "differently arranged lines" is a fucking weird problem to have. really, you can arbitrarily sort programs ? in what language, html ?
09:34 mircea_popescu in general people working on the same (large enough as you said) codebase should have the courtesy to use the same spacing and coding conventions etc.
09:35 mircea_popescu it is prolly best practice to have all serious V projects include a "conventions" file where to list all this. "1. tabs not spaces, bitch!" etc.
↖
09:35 mircea_popescu sort-of like css for the editor if you will.
09:35 mircea_popescu actually fuck, v projects should prolly come with emacs .el file
09:37 Framedragger mircea_popescu: no disagreement there; just pointing out that sometimes small arrangement disagreements still prop up; say, different order of variable initialization (which otherwise bears no actual significance); etc. of course one *could* have a convention spec so precise taht it would include things like "if there is arbitrary order of initialization of $x then default to alphanumerical order".
09:37 mircea_popescu for instance. it is, after all, coding. order is not contrary to results.
09:38 mircea_popescu the problems start when phf will get more people to do knuth style literature
09:38 mircea_popescu but hey, reading each other's novellas is the whole fucking point anywya.
09:40 mircea_popescu incidentally Framedragger the problem of "we'll just initialize in a soup" is a lot deeper than previously thought. in a merciless language like C, the fact that we're the first to come up with the "fucking initialize in alphabetical roder!" is indicative of the brain rot.
09:41 mircea_popescu how do i check if kth of n elements was or was not initialized ? read a list n-1 long ?
09:41 mircea_popescu this is kindergarten-level stupid.
09:41 mircea_popescu half the shit you do with c is check whether something was initialized properly. HALF!
↖
09:42 asciilifeform achtung, panzers!
09:42 asciilifeform mircea_popescu, trinque, et al:
09:42 asciilifeform http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/jxdrx/?raw=true
↖
09:42 mircea_popescu ("oh but mp, compiler should check!" "yeah, and your mom should have checked.")
09:43 Framedragger look at that one person knows to actually include human readable timestamp into the inside of a pgp signed message which deals with timing-sensitive info!!!
09:44 Framedragger mircea_popescu: that's a good point!
09:44 mircea_popescu lol they changed your pooled ip ? sad!
09:44 Framedragger nasa's coding manual (which doesn't allow recursive code - because the rovers are, you know, sorta far away, and you write in a turing complete language) may have it - i wonder
09:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it happens every year or so
09:46 asciilifeform theoretically i could pay to have it not happen, but for the same cost could get 2-3 more subscriptions to various isp...
09:47 mircea_popescu in other lulz, /me has profile on bdsm site. a good third of the others checking it out are self-styled dominant dudes.
09:47 Framedragger hahahahah
09:47 Framedragger they become submissive by entering mp aura zone
09:48 Framedragger that, i can imagine
09:48 mircea_popescu but to be perfectly fair - it's pretty much the mental default of bois, so. the 1 in 10ish or so dominant chick is probably a larger percentage of the respective population.
09:49 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537008 << oh ferfuxxsake, has mircea_popescu been drinking today or wat
09:49 a111 Logged on 2016-09-08 12:59 mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/#323 << do we even have an yumpblock, bro ?
09:49 scriba Logged on 2016-09-08: [04:39:50] <ascii_zimbabwe> 'dumpblock' it.
09:49 asciilifeform $s dumpblock
09:49 a111 54 results for "dumpblock", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=dumpblock
09:49 mircea_popescu btw Framedragger, you realise that once i link you, the bots will notice, and you'll eventually get the phf treatment, a month or w/e later ?
09:50 mircea_popescu trilema serves bout 10-20mn pages / month to bots.
09:50 Framedragger mircea_popescu: preparin' for it.
09:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform jus' sayin', it's a little more elbow grease to dump and eat the whole blockchain than to just make a copy
09:51 asciilifeform not really, no
09:51 asciilifeform i posted a bash 3liner a while ago
09:51 mircea_popescu how long does it take ?
09:51 Framedragger i heard there was, like, a way to, like, store results from a dynamic system, to be served in a static manner
09:51 Framedragger but in all seriousness, i'm a bit afraid, but it may be good education for me. not that i see this as a game to be fucked up at the first step
09:51 asciilifeform and we had this entire test where my node ate a total dumpblock of mircea_popescu's
09:51 asciilifeform recall?
09:51 mircea_popescu i do recall.
09:52 mircea_popescu mebbe you're right, this should be advertised moar.
09:52 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-30#1181921
09:52 a111 Logged on 2015-06-30 19:12 ascii_field: in other nyooz, 'dumpblock' for the sums.txt.gz mircea_popescu set 0..n and subsequent 'eatblock' in brand-new stator - works
09:52 asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turdsums/sums.txt.gz
09:52 mircea_popescu i have a flag about it but it doesn't link to anything apparently so i dunno what i was thinking.
09:53 asciilifeform see also 'blkcut'.
09:54 asciilifeform $s blkcut
09:54 a111 22 results for "blkcut", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=blkcut
09:54 asciilifeform http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-June/000105.html << 'eatblock'
09:54 asciilifeform 'One could even sync via 'netcat' from a trusted phriend...'
09:55 asciilifeform http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-June/000104.html << dumpblock with illustration.
09:55 mircea_popescu you're going to corrupt all my words people into code people, and then we'll have what, eliza write qntra ?
09:55 mircea_popescu you're a bad seed alfie.
09:55 asciilifeform phf's btcbase.org/patches has the canonical.
09:55 asciilifeform 'specialization is for insects' (tm) (r) (heinlein)
09:56 mircea_popescu this dictatorship has gone to shit.
09:56 Framedragger oh yeah that's a decent quote. quotebot?
09:56 mircea_popescu well, bash/quotebot rather than imdb quote db i think.
09:58 mircea_popescu so ever since i wrote that thing about argentine retards wearing hoodies, i have this ongoing debate with... some people. it mostly consists of stuff like, http://66.media.tumblr.com/47e87402c079d8364a48c9322417f012/tumblr_nh1hzo81x31tq5tbno1_1280.jpg
09:59 asciilifeform http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-July/000107.html <<<<< theeeere we go.
09:59 asciilifeform finally found it.
10:02 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537040 << you don't need automatics. separate v trees are simply kept in separate dirs, etc.
10:02 a111 Logged on 2016-09-08 13:16 Framedragger: right. perhaps it's a matter of writing scripts to automate this stuff for V.
10:02 asciilifeform the thing is deliberately designed 'ms-dos'-style
10:03 asciilifeform all changes in state are explicit (you vdiff ... > file.vdiff), etc.
10:03 Framedragger yeah that i really like. reminds of that bitcoin wallet spec - no non-ascii parts
10:04 mircea_popescu incidentally, asciilifeform : we'll end up with a v-stdlib won't we ? prolly starting with v-cryptolib as a nucleus.
10:04 * mircea_popescu really has little use for the shit currently shipping with c as a stdlib.
10:04 Framedragger dude, a first-on-the-planet decent cryptolib would be nice
10:04 mircea_popescu Framedragger he's working on it, if you didn't guess from all the "scriptable cryptosystem" talk.
10:04 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: at the moment musl is my stdlib.
10:05 mircea_popescu works.
10:05 asciilifeform it is by far the fastest horse in this glue factory.
10:05 Framedragger (there's djb's NaCl, but it's EC)
10:05 Framedragger FUNDRAISER FOR ALF
10:05 asciilifeform lelraiser
10:05 mircea_popescu Framedragger the very notion of a cryptolib being cryptoimplementation shows stupid at the seams.
10:05 mircea_popescu here's a stray thought : if i can't implement EC in a page on your cryptolib IT IS NOT A LIB!
10:06 mircea_popescu it may be a SHIB, but that's all.
10:06 Framedragger fwiw iirc that lib exposes abstracted parts; but, yeah, no easy way to change those internal parts
10:07 mircea_popescu "this is the tyre store" "do you have tyres ?" "yes, here's an apple audio jack" "this is not a tyre" "allegedly."
10:07 mircea_popescu "how about you know, an actual car tyre ?" "sorry bro. use the headphones or build your own store."
10:07 asciilifeform the old cryptolib, by this token, was gmp. as seen here, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1533
10:07 Framedragger also, while it's not exactly contradictory it's still funny what status bitcoin holds in tmsr's infrastructure, while being based on EC
10:08 mircea_popescu tell you what, if we're ever shipwrecked on a deserted island with hillary, we'll fuck hillary.
10:08 Framedragger but, yeah, shit code all over the place
10:08 Framedragger that does sound like a plan. total failover scenario #1 recorded, then
10:10 Framedragger asciilifeform: "Everything pertaining to Automake was nuked" - so nice. i used to doubt (or maybe i still do - in itself a healthy habit, perhaps) whether i didn't *get* something fundamental in modern s/w development. (maybe i still don't, of course). "shitloads of build targets and convoluted build chain? maybe there's no way more elegant? i must be a truly stupid person."
10:11 Framedragger psychologically harmful culture, this
10:11 mircea_popescu no, it's just the sad effect of runaway tolerance.
10:11 asciilifeform Framedragger: i went to war against the 'culture' long ago.
10:12 mircea_popescu take the alice character from earlier. the inclination of ~anyone, other than me/us/whatever would be to say "well, let her be, maybe who knows one day does something useful". except it does nothing useful, it only clutters things.
10:13 shinohai !!up GoldBoriska
10:13 Framedragger i think my tolerance levels are (finally) decreasing in some kind of accelerated fashion, hopefully in line with growing experience, but there's still ways to go. but yeah, war it is
10:13 deedbot GoldBoriska voiced for 30 minutes.
10:13 mircea_popescu there's no difference between random dude with bizarro identity issues and random lib with bizarro code footprint
10:14 asciilifeform Framedragger: the linked item is illustrative of how to flamethrower away automake.
10:14 mircea_popescu they're both things, devoid of "rights", or importance or anything of that nature. and they're both worse than useless, which is to say eat more than produce.
10:15 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537093 << we had a mega-thread.
10:15 a111 Logged on 2016-09-08 13:35 mircea_popescu: it is prolly best practice to have all serious V projects include a "conventions" file where to list all this. "1. tabs not spaces, bitch!" etc.
10:16 asciilifeform atm we're stuck with the extremely braindamaged style of the original author.
10:16 asciilifeform because ain't nobody gonna read the WHOLE THING just to audit a stylemorphed copy.
10:16 mircea_popescu you mean re bitcoin ?
10:16 asciilifeform aha.
10:16 asciilifeform strictly it.
10:16 mircea_popescu we were discussing new programs
10:16 asciilifeform new - then yes.
10:18 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537103 << see also >> http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3141310154691952@naggum.no.html
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10:18 a111 Logged on 2016-09-08 13:41 mircea_popescu: half the shit you do with c is check whether something was initialized properly. HALF!
10:19 asciilifeform 'the problem is that neither Unix nor Windows _actually_ support either C or C++, but they manage to make them work, with downright incredible effort. if you look inside the libraries and see how a system call actually works and how much it differs from the C calling convention and usage, you'd be a fool not to revise your opinion. and _does_ an operating system that forces the programmer to check to see whether the operating syste
10:19 asciilifeform m did what it was asked to do every damn time you ask it to do anything actually give any relevant form of support to anyone?'
10:20 mircea_popescu then again, trust-but-verify is the correct approach anyway.
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10:20 mircea_popescu outside of actula hard guarantees (v does not allow writing conflicts), that's all you have.
~ 19 minutes ~
10:39 mircea_popescu oh and in other news : meat is delicious! http://67.media.tumblr.com/0f852db83aa06e198914fe61336de00c/tumblr_obra4aaks81so15avo1_1280.jpg
~ 22 minutes ~
11:02 asciilifeform https://archive.is/J2ROj << lel
11:05 phf probably sci-hub defense
11:07 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> tell you what, if we're ever shipwrecked on a deserted island with hillary, we'll fuck hillary. << think she coughs now? wait until she chokes on all that dick!
11:10 asciilifeform https://archive.is/pibt2 << in other noose. (stein is a crackpot pres candidate in usa)
11:12 asciilifeform elsewhere, https://archive.is/oypYD << dude does 16y in american prison, let out, wants (yes) back in, they won't take him, so he shoots a few cops
11:18 asciilifeform more interestingly, https://archive.is/78NoN : 'Jund al Aqsa, an al Qaeda front group in Syria, has released a video showing one of its small drones dropping a bomb on Syrian regime forces in Hama province. The unguided bomb doesn’t appear to have been especially effective, but the video is noteworthy because it documents the Sunni jihadis’ further experimentation with explosives....'
11:19 asciilifeform ^ next-to-last photo esp. lulzy
11:19 asciilifeform (why is the thing horizontal??)
11:19 asciilifeform 'This video has been removed for violating YouTube's Terms of Service.' << also lul.
11:24 Framedragger hey-ho, how about some frivolous over-engineering: http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/irc_logging.txt
↖ ↖
11:25 Framedragger caching implied but not explicit
11:26 asciilifeform i like mircea_popescu's idea - of wholly-uncoupled redundant logtrons - moar.
11:26 asciilifeform there is no reason for all of these things to be plugged into one another.
11:26 Framedragger there could be multiple monstrosities like this, tho!
11:27 asciilifeform what i meant was that i see 0 reason why any 1 of the multiple items ought to be of this form.
11:27 asciilifeform but if Framedragger wants to make one - hey, why not.
11:27 Framedragger itch for over-machineering is a dangerous one
11:27 Framedragger i prolly agree asciilifeform
11:28 asciilifeform complicated mechanisms breed cockroaches.
11:28 mircea_popescu aand in other lelz, "I can't imagine any foreigner writing down 3 lines of non error text for my life of it. Greeks are not easy to be mastered and he is using them without a mistake. what is considered to be an exception even in between Greeks."
11:28 mircea_popescu learning. it's an impossible. so say the greeks.
11:29 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537207 << mircea_popescu when the girls bring you a cup of tea, how would you like to ALWAYS have to sniff first to make sure that it is tea and not liquishit or piss ?
11:29 a111 Logged on 2016-09-08 14:20 mircea_popescu: then again, trust-but-verify is the correct approach anyway.
11:29 mircea_popescu TRUST-and-verify.
11:29 asciilifeform well there is no room to 'trust' in c.
11:29 mircea_popescu and yes, i spot check the work of even the most senior girl.
11:29 asciilifeform SPOT check.
11:29 asciilifeform but, e.g., fopen(...) can ALWAYS return martian rubbish.
11:30 mircea_popescu trust-but-verify doesn't specifically mean "always check".
11:30 asciilifeform and so even a simple c proggy by a competent pair of hands is a MASSIVE ball of check-and-fail-as-such-or-such-or-such...
11:30 mircea_popescu but yes, part of hte problem with extant c, as a language but more importantly as a paradigm and society, is that there's no way to build trust.
11:31 mircea_popescu ie, young brazillian chick WILL have to have her cooking checked for shit, because apparently wash hands is not universally comprehended in brazil.
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11:31 asciilifeform i'd simply colour brazil brown on the big map in the map room and move on...
11:32 mircea_popescu why ? great gals.
11:33 asciilifeform great but shit on hands eh.
11:33 mircea_popescu it's a skill, she can learn that like anything else.
11:33 mircea_popescu you would be surprised how many girls have to be taught how to wash.
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11:33 mircea_popescu and no, northern hemisphere is not exceptional. us especially not exceptional.
11:33 asciilifeform actually i'm not surprised, i saw with own eyes.
11:34 mircea_popescu apparently people somehow assume younguns just know this, somehow, through osmosis.
11:34 mircea_popescu needless to say, the only thing that occurs through osmosis is an unwarranted conviction that she knows how to do it, and a block towards examination.
11:35 asciilifeform c (but more importantly, the c ~machine~, with its single hardware stack) encourages, and just about mandates the 'crashing is acceptable because there is NO practical way to handle ALL error conditions sanely' idiocy.
11:36 asciilifeform stroustrup ~perceived~ the problem, but did not, in his cpp, solve it - cpp has 'exceptions' but lacks, e.g., common lisp's 'unwind-protect' ( http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?UnwindProtect ) and so error conditions still result in rubbish
11:37 asciilifeform (because there is no way to guarantee cleanup)
11:38 asciilifeform nor does c-machine enable restarts (how many programming folk even ~CONCEIVE~ of the notion of meaningfully RESUMING a crashed proggy ?)
11:39 mircea_popescu young mps idea of what a compiler does was, "well it basically completely unwinds the code, so it's all flat, and then checks everything". then young mp saw the first "runtime error" and locked. then told teacher this isn't real programming and he's not interested.
11:39 mircea_popescu the position has, broadly speaking, endured.
11:39 Framedragger mircea_popescu: haha just found https://www.reddit.com/r/NSFWforhire - may pique one's fancy
11:39 asciilifeform young mircea_popescu , like many young folk, like, e.g., young-asciilifeform , and young-asciipet, all had this correct idea.
11:40 asciilifeform because it is a pretty obvious and sane thing.
11:40 Framedragger (ah, no, i take it back: mostly boring.)
11:40 mircea_popescu moreover, if it DOESN'T do that, then wtf does it do.
11:40 mircea_popescu this is like you know, "this coffee grinder - doesn't grind coffee". this is pretty serious - what the fuck does it do then ?
11:41 mircea_popescu "well... here's a list." "fuck you."
11:41 asciilifeform eh it grinds coffee. but also grinds fingernails, cockroaches, fingers.
11:41 asciilifeform whatever ends up in.
11:41 mircea_popescu and it's my job to find the grinds in the kitchen once it's done.
11:42 asciilifeform also sometimes tries to grind rusty nails and burns motor
11:42 mircea_popescu check it out, twenny bux bought me an egg hunt machine.
11:47 asciilifeform a c-grinder will also, should its lid come off, happily continue to fly (yes) around the kitchen, grinding whatever ends up in its path, drywall, chairs, people, van goghs, stradivaris, crates of ammunition, dogs, dildos.
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11:48 phf above is ascii's (rather respectable) list of important items and valuables
11:48 mircea_popescu "but mp, if you don't want ground ammo just don't keep crates of ammo in your kitchen" "o ya ? how about i don't keep a grinder."
11:48 mircea_popescu lmao.
11:49 mircea_popescu DCPvGSCoADD. << the list.
11:50 mircea_popescu dcp versus gsc or add.
11:53 asciilifeform ' fauns, beings of double sex, brutes with six-fingered hands, sirens, hippocentaurs, gorgons, harpies, incubi, dragopods, minotaurs, lynxes, pards, chimeras, cynophales who darted fire from their nostrils, crocodiles, polycaudate, hairy serpents, salamanders, horned vipers, tortoises, snakes, two-headed creatures whose backs were armed with teeth, hyenas, otters, crows, hydrophora with saw-tooth horns, frogs, gryphons, monkeys, dog-
↖
11:53 asciilifeform heads, leucrota, manticores, vultures, paranders, weasels, dragons, hoopoes, owls, basilisks, hypnales, presters, spectafici, scorpions, saurians, whales, scitales, amphisbenae, iaculi, dipsases, green lizards, pilot fish, octopi, morays, and sea turtles.' -- eco's 'name of the rose'
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11:53 asciilifeform ( http://english4success.ru/upload/books/1592.pdf << 31111117 w4r3z btw )
11:54 mircea_popescu for the curious, leucrota is what happens when a hyena fucks a lioness.
11:54 mircea_popescu this is no small matter, as lions will kill hyenas unprovoked.
11:55 asciilifeform well they do occupy overlapping meat niche
11:55 asciilifeform so, in 'western' parlance, 'there ain't room enough in this here town for the two of'em'
11:55 mircea_popescu (the animal doesn't actually exists outside of plinius, but still.)
11:55 mircea_popescu asciilifeform not only that, but hyena is the more efficient.
11:56 asciilifeform see also mega-classic ambroise pare's 'monstres et prodiges'
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11:56 asciilifeform there is an english for folks who need.
11:57 mircea_popescu anyway. hyenas are not cats, like lions are, but dogs. even if they've adapted into as much catness as possible. so the two aren't actually sexually compatible.
11:57 asciilifeform noshit.jpg
11:57 asciilifeform scorpion doesn't fuck lion on actual planet3 either.
11:57 asciilifeform but in medieval lysergic dreams...
11:57 mircea_popescu nah, the manticore is not the result of fux.
11:58 mircea_popescu incidentally, i'd be unsurprised if there's a market in africa for lion prostitution.
11:58 * mircea_popescu can readily see how the "african warrior" idi amin mentality would pay to fuck a lioness.
12:00 asciilifeform iirc they prefer to eat'em
12:03 asciilifeform pretty lulzy, motherfucking 16TH CENTURY b00k, is NOWHERE on the net.
↖
12:03 asciilifeform NOWHERE.
12:03 mircea_popescu the net has more important things to attend to.
12:03 phf we had this thread
12:03 asciilifeform derpy schoolboys' 'papers' on it - yes.
12:03 asciilifeform 1,001.
12:03 mircea_popescu aha.
12:03 asciilifeform the b00k - nope.
12:03 mircea_popescu wouldn't the book be unfair competition ?
12:03 asciilifeform apparently.
12:03 mircea_popescu hyena knows, alfie.
12:04 asciilifeform Memetically Uncomfortable!1111 (tm) (r) (alice_)
12:04 mircea_popescu how did that go, "by the claw we know this lion"
12:05 asciilifeform at some point i'ma scan the thing.
12:06 mircea_popescu incidentally : man and lion have rather comparable penii in size. except the cat, like most cats, has keratin penile spikes.
12:06 mircea_popescu amusingly enough, this condition also exists in humans, albeit rare.
12:06 asciilifeform aha, 'locking thread'
12:09 Framedragger http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/from:656/to:656#656 << out of curiosity, what book would that be? (not the fictional one within eco's name of the rose i assume??)
12:09 scriba Logged on 2016-09-08: [16:03:08] <asciilifeform> pretty lulzy, motherfucking 16TH CENTURY b00k, is NOWHERE on the net.
12:09 asciilifeform nono, that one was linked earlier.
12:09 asciilifeform pare's.
12:10 asciilifeform the one with sea monsters, two-headed children, etc.
12:10 asciilifeform leucrota.
12:10 Framedragger oooh, interesting, ok
12:10 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537284 <<
12:10 a111 Logged on 2016-09-08 15:56 asciilifeform: see also mega-classic ambroise pare's 'monstres et prodiges'
12:12 Framedragger ah damn i must have heard of him in a lithuanian context but i probably know nothing of him, even though evidently i should. /shame
12:12 Framedragger pretty epic dude
12:12 asciilifeform among first people to seriously study birth defects.
12:12 asciilifeform i have the tome here.
12:15 * mircea_popescu pictures someone who actually feels shame over not having read the references here. imagine! you got "i used to fuck lions in kindergarten" alf ; native russian poet afficionado and whatever else phf is, then there's the cinematic tradition, and the...
12:15 mircea_popescu o woe.
12:15 asciilifeform iirc asciilifeform was the one with the ru poets, phf - with french poets and lions, mircea_popescu - with cinematic. etc
12:16 asciilifeform but yes.
12:21 mircea_popescu what poets!
12:22 Framedragger eh, the chan is educational and therefore useful on that merit alone, and that's nice
12:28 mircea_popescu "Whilst the misguided follower climbs with pain mountains of whimseys, heaped in his own brain, stumbling from thought to thought, falls headlong down into doubt's boundless sea where, like to drown, books bear him up awhile, and make him try to swim with bladders of philosophy."
12:34 asciilifeform http://i-cdn.phonearena.com/images/articles/256205-thumb/AirPods-header.jpg << is it just me or do these look like... smokes ?
↖ ↖
12:35 asciilifeform ( this in re yesterday's http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-07#1536473 )
12:35 a111 Logged on 2016-09-07 19:27 asciilifeform: 'AirPods will use Infrared sensors to detect when they’re in your ears, playing only when they’re in your ears. The setup process is super easy — connect the AirPods once to your iPhone, and the AirPods instantly sync over iCloud to your other devices. From there, you never worry about them again.' >> oblig. >> http://www.loper-os.org/?p=752
12:45 asciilifeform in other olds, 'However, after two days of eating MealSquares, I was desperate for anything else. I wolfed down my tupperware of weird gruel almost immediately upon getting to the office on Wednesday morning. It was the opposite of the problem I'd had with the MealSquares, which took me so long to get down that I wasn't physically able to consume enough calories in one day to properly function.'
12:45 asciilifeform 'By this time the smell of any other food gave me hunger pangs; I walked past a pizza place and nearly cried.'
12:46 asciilifeform ( https://archive.is/IhleF )
12:46 asciilifeform !!up malcomxxx
12:46 deedbot malcomxxx voiced for 30 minutes.
12:47 malcomxxx How i can made btc ? can some one help me out ?
12:47 diana_coman malcomxxx, see #eulora
12:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/Uow3O << mega-lol: 'These air pod headphone things aren't visible enough to signal to men that I don't want them to talk to me'
12:51 asciilifeform and also: 'The beauty of the headphone cable is just like the beauty of a tampon string: it is there to help you keep track of a very important item, and help you fish it out of whatever nook and cranny it might have fallen into.'
12:51 mircea_popescu which is most of the reason chicks even get headphones.
12:57 * asciilifeform pictures the peter thiel call: t. cook's phone rings. thiel: 'ipnoje is not surveillatronic enough. hitler is displeased. the lien on your left ball will be called in.' cook: 'what do we do' thiel: 'well, you could make'em wear earphones with cameras' cook: 'brilliant, 360 degree coverage' thiel: 'it'd better be out by september'
12:58 asciilifeform incidentally i have nfi whether that dot is camera or just ir probe.
12:59 asciilifeform haven't yet sawed open a set of these.
12:59 asciilifeform anyone who has - please post here.
13:01 asciilifeform and, ahahahahaha,
13:01 asciilifeform at the 'pgp conference',
13:01 asciilifeform '16:45 – 17:00 Short talk: Analyzing Keyserver Data Hanno Böck'
13:01 asciilifeform this friday.
13:03 mircea_popescu curious if he ends up heckled.
13:03 asciilifeform doubt it.
13:03 asciilifeform afaik room full of hand-picked heathens there.
13:03 asciilifeform https://gnupg.org/conf/program.html .
13:03 mircea_popescu !!key nooblet
13:03 deedbot No such key.
13:04 asciilifeform if mircea_popescu knows anyone in or near cologne, could try to crash party.
13:05 mircea_popescu you seem to be ~the only one who cares about that particular fanclub though.
13:06 asciilifeform 'Plagiarize !! Let no one else's work evade your eyes ! Remember why the good Lord made your eyes ! So don't shade your eyes !' (tm) (r) (tom lehrer)
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13:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i do not regard the now-explicit cooperation of koch with boeck as uninteresting.
13:09 mircea_popescu sure, butthat's somewhat of a different kettle of fish.
13:09 asciilifeform previously the weevils were largely careful to avoid being seen in one room.
13:09 asciilifeform now - not so much.
13:09 mircea_popescu of course they gotta join forces. they stand no chance.
13:10 asciilifeform a while ago i briefly considered showing up at the 'pgp conference' but decided against. there is a difference between entomologist and those fellas who fuck wasp hives
13:13 mircea_popescu you know this exists btw ?
13:13 asciilifeform naturally
13:13 mircea_popescu cricket fuckers also.
13:13 asciilifeform it was posted here >1ce
13:13 mircea_popescu apparently the bestioles deliver quite the byte
13:13 mircea_popescu oh ?
13:13 asciilifeform (though for some reason i can't seem to turn up the log)
13:14 asciilifeform ru prison has miniature version also, upturned glass with single wasp/fly/whatever stings
13:14 PeterL speaking of books, mircea_popescu have you read "The Prince" by Machiavelli? I have been reading it and for some reason it made me think of you (though I expect you would read it in the original Italian?)
↖
13:14 asciilifeform (well, mug, there is no glass in the prison normally)
13:15 asciilifeform and does anyone else find it lulzy that boeck's talk is 15m long ?
13:15 mircea_popescu yeah i read it back in school at some point
13:15 asciilifeform even in american school 'the prince' is read. or, was.
13:15 trinque is.
13:16 trinque shit I'm old; was.
13:16 mircea_popescu i found the preface more interesting than the tome, myself.
13:16 mircea_popescu iirc this is even discussed on trilema somewhere.
13:19 asciilifeform btw, bock's talk was announced , it looks like, 7 hours ago.
13:19 asciilifeform such flattery.
13:20 asciilifeform the derps were seriously worried that... what ?
13:20 asciilifeform that mircea_popescu would send rocket full of weasels ?
13:20 asciilifeform rabid capybaras ?
13:21 asciilifeform in other noose, remember the 'riseup' derpatron? the one with the, what, dozen phuctur pops ? well, https://archive.is/PEVaX
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13:21 asciilifeform $s riseup
13:21 a111 16 results for "riseup", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=riseup
13:21 mircea_popescu not worried as much as you know, "they care about us" sorta delusion.
13:22 asciilifeform e.g., http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-30#1459571
13:22 a111 Logged on 2016-04-30 01:34 deedbot: [Recent Phuctorings.] Phuctored: 9 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'randomnoize (Tor relay operator) <randomnoize@riseup.net>; randomnoize (Tor relay operator) <randomnoize2009@googlemail.com>; ' - http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9319605DD9BFB5972272003BC0D6D2E999783C7256A75BF1BE08178A359F9542
13:23 asciilifeform and meanwhile, '"The Web-of-Trust is a geek's instrument", "Hard to explain" says Werner Koch'
13:23 trinque http://archive.is/y6ONu
13:23 trinque ahaha
13:23 trinque I don't know what they think this does.
13:23 trinque raises anti-awareness I suppose
13:24 shinohai Use our system, and leave the pesky key-handling to us!
13:24 asciilifeform elsewhere: esteemed mr boeck burns^H^H^H^H^Hdiscovers https://github.com/hannob/fritzbox-keys
13:25 asciilifeform 'private keys found on AVM Fritz!Box firmware images' << some router.
13:25 mircea_popescu in other but entirely similar news, https://archive.is/L3eYg
13:25 asciilifeform lol!
13:29 asciilifeform http://saweis.net/posts/most-cited-security-papers-2013-2014.html << academilulz.
13:30 asciilifeform https://archive.is/48A4D << cached.
13:31 asciilifeform the #1 entry is gut-bustingly lulzy to asciilifeform , because i spend ~half year auditing a multilinear-map thing for $rupturefarm, and even was sent to a 'conference' where 'serious cryptographers' did not even blink when someone walked in with a proof that whole thing was crock of shit
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13:32 asciilifeform #3 ditto.
13:32 asciilifeform and 5.
13:32 asciilifeform 13.
13:32 asciilifeform lel, half the list.
13:32 asciilifeform mass delusion, this.
13:34 asciilifeform http://blog.sec-consult.com/2016/09/house-of-keys-9-months-later-40-worse.html << herr boeck drops privkeys : 'The data we are publishing consists of 331 certificates including the matching private key as well as 553 individual private keys. We've also included the names of products that contain the certificates/keys. Cryptographic keys that were not found in Internet-wide scan data (Scans.io and Censys.io, HTTPS/SSH) are included as
13:34 asciilifeform well. These might be used in other protocols such as EAP/802.1X, FTPS etc. The data we are publishing allows researchers to reproduce the results of our study, find more cases or cryptographic key reuse, attribute cryptographic keys to specific vendors/products, but also to develop tools for detecting and exploiting this vulnerability class in the course of penetration tests. Releasing the private keys is not something we take light
13:34 asciilifeform ly as it allows global adversaries to exploit this vulnerability class on a large scale. However we think that any determined attacker can repeat our research and get the private keys from publicly available firmware with ease.'
13:35 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: looks like they're going for a 'догоним и перегоним' tack re phuctor etc.
13:36 phf asciilifeform: have you seen all those "hardware sources of randomness" devices that's been surfacing recently?
13:37 mircea_popescu aha
13:37 asciilifeform phf: they've been surfacing for 20 years.
13:38 asciilifeform phf: five bucks and a soldering iron buys you a very acceptable rng.
13:38 asciilifeform (if you're comfortable with arithmetic)
13:38 phf asciilifeform: https://github.com/waywardgeek/infnoise https://keithp.com/blogs/chaoskey/
13:39 asciilifeform phf: for some reason everyone insists on SAME kind of idiocy
13:39 asciilifeform no isolated power. usually no shield.
13:39 asciilifeform digital oscillators right next to analogue circuit.
13:39 asciilifeform virtually never any shield. etc.
13:40 asciilifeform 'whitening.'
13:40 asciilifeform $s whitening
13:40 a111 51 results for "whitening", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=whitening
13:40 asciilifeform 'Data coming from true random number generators is never 100% random. I am aware of no exceptions. Whitening is required in all cases before the data is suitable for use in cryptography.' << from first link
↖
13:40 phf asciilifeform: obviously above links are purely boekware entomology
13:41 asciilifeform from 2nd link : https://keithp.com/pictures/chaoskey-sch.pdf << illustrative of all of the ills
13:43 asciilifeform the interesting bit is that no servant of hitler ever need formally commision 'boeckware' - it is produced 'naturally', by herd of teenage imbecile alice_s
13:45 asciilifeform gotta love the UPGRADEABLE!11111 usb micros, too
13:46 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537219 << have you read trinque's logbot yet?
13:46 a111 Logged on 2016-09-08 15:24 Framedragger: hey-ho, how about some frivolous over-engineering: http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/irc_logging.txt
13:46 asciilifeform we have here an arguable case of 'что русскому хорошо, то немцу — смерть' -- they cannot risk to import sanity.
13:46 asciilifeform so all of the boeckian products are recognizably similar in their nonsensical dance around the question
13:48 trinque ben_vulpes: why would anyone read republican code when there are shithubs to pilfer and tape together
13:49 ben_vulpes fella probably doesn't know the source is kicking around
13:50 ben_vulpes of course he might! so i ask.
13:50 trinque he does.
13:50 ben_vulpes literacy means /literature/ trinque.
13:50 ben_vulpes not /code/.
13:51 trinque I. what?
13:52 trinque no, read vpatches or gtfo.
13:52 ben_vulpes no but hey this thing about kant
13:54 asciilifeform waiwat
13:55 phf i think it's an elaborate spoof of mp/ascii dialogues
13:56 * trinque has nfi which thing about kant
13:56 trinque but on the subj, I didn't put together a bot and the wot mechanics to like, run in there and make my name!
13:56 trinque Framedragger: ^
13:57 trinque it's plumbing work, and plumbing work we already lost once
13:57 asciilifeform ^^
13:58 trinque this is one of the blessings of V.
13:59 trinque if you *bother* to write something worth writing, you are free from that task thereafter
13:59 asciilifeform this pill, like other pills, only works if YOU TAKE IT however.
13:59 asciilifeform 'put between knees!' does not work.
13:59 asciilifeform as mircea_popescu helpfully pointed out.
14:00 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-23#1527828 << subj
14:00 a111 Logged on 2016-08-23 18:49 mircea_popescu: pretty ridoinculous seeing how half the time i fuck girl with knees together.
~ 20 minutes ~
14:20 Framedragger http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/from:798/to:798#798 << yeah i have! it's really neat. have you? :) the larger part of the code is in trinque's *ircbot*, btw. logbot plugs in very nicely. but fact of the matter is, http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/irc_logging.txt would be orthogonal, i.e. the two can be devleoped independently, to a degree
14:20 scriba Logged on 2016-09-08: [17:46:20] <ben_vulpes> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537219 << have you read trinque's logbot yet?
14:20 ben_vulpes oh teh snark
14:21 Framedragger well i'm just returning the snark eh :p
14:21 Framedragger the "but kant" homage to mp (maybe?) made me lol btw :D
14:23 * trinque has no idea what separating history citing and history collecting buys
14:23 trinque you do realize also that freenode might as well be owned by hitler
14:24 trinque having the www separate, yes
14:24 Framedragger not in terms of bigbro collection stuff, but in terms of making it more difficult to ddos
14:24 trinque also know that one properly configured nginx should be able to handle massive amounts of traffic
14:24 trinque it's text you're serving, not porn vids
14:24 trinque ^
14:25 trinque Framedragger: freenode rate limits messages; how am I going to ddos a bot
14:25 Framedragger of course of course; but as was stated multiple times, it's about making things more *difficult* / costly for adversaries. you can always slippery slope into "such powerful adversary with infinite motivation" and win the argument - and that's legit, sure
14:26 Framedragger find ip and ddos machine behind ip
14:26 Framedragger thru other services and just plain syn flood or w/e
14:27 Framedragger but, yeah, overthinking much? prolly....
14:28 shinohai !~later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/1l7D
14:28 jhvh1 shinohai: The operation succeeded.
14:28 trinque Framedragger: hostmask hides IP if you want that, so get hostmask for your bot
14:28 Framedragger it's not really reliable. but i may just be doing that slippery slope insane adversary thing myself here. :/
14:28 trinque aha
14:29 trinque better to clearly define the work, then solve simply and move on.
14:29 trinque you will not fix TCP/IP with teh botz
14:29 trinque ask asciilifeform
14:29 Framedragger *sigh*. "that's boring". no, you're right, i agree.
14:32 mircea_popescu and in other "what makes languages dumb",
14:32 mircea_popescu !~translate ro to en "ati fost destituit"
14:32 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: You have been dismissed
14:32 mircea_popescu aha. except there's no "you've been inmissed". the way words work in actual languages is that you institute (say a rule) and you destitute (eg a functionary).
↖
14:33 mircea_popescu meanwhile english is basically this language of some superficial twerps who noticed the effects (destitute, ie poor, right ? institute, ie, the building where they do them town things, right ?)
14:33 mircea_popescu !~translate ro to en "ati fost concediat"
14:33 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: You have been fired
14:33 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: degeneration to monkey is directly observable with naked eye among the englishers
14:33 mircea_popescu literally, you have been vacationed.
14:33 mircea_popescu and so on ad libitum
14:33 shinohai Would be funny to translate that as "You will now be destitute"
14:33 asciilifeform take their 'losing' various features
14:34 mircea_popescu shinohai lol. it's "you've been destituted" though. because you know, there's a functioning of past participle
14:34 mircea_popescu and generally speaking grammatical categories are first and foremost categories OF MEANING
14:34 mircea_popescu not arbitrary fucking labels and empty forms.
14:34 asciilifeform monkey inheriting man's tools rips the 'excess' knobs off, first thing.
14:34 mircea_popescu quite.
14:35 mircea_popescu and then ends up predictably stupid in a certain way. /me thinks "environment" is not properly said to be a large factor - other than poor genetics of being sheepfuckers in the first place - in the apparition of SUTO.
14:35 asciilifeform (man inheriting monkey land also spends time scraping off monkey turds, but process is only superficially similar)
14:35 mircea_popescu it's not "the environment" vaguely like that. it is, first and foremost, the language.
14:35 mircea_popescu english makes people stupid.
14:35 asciilifeform even orlov had a series re subj
14:36 asciilifeform it is a brain-melter to the poor natives, most of'em never get past own initial 'la la can't hear you' reaction
14:36 asciilifeform and resist any attempt at a cure.
14:36 mircea_popescu i'm not even sure there is a cure. "oh foreign languages are hard." "well of fucking course they're are, you frittered away your 3-5yo interval of brain plasticity on learning adspeak."
14:37 mircea_popescu at least hungarians know they've been cursed with stupid.
↖
14:38 shinohai speek Americunt
14:38 mircea_popescu then mp is all fucking annoyed, "wtf is with these idiots, they rip out some bit off culture, give it a name and strut around". doh. this is what the fucking language trains them to do in the first place.
14:39 mircea_popescu "noun". what the everloving fuck "noun". you mean substantive ? "oh no mp, that's an adverb". "doubleplusmata."\
14:43 mircea_popescu asciilifeform anyway, re the derp circus : as long as you publish on the internet, there's going to be some "businessman" trying to republish your content, and spam it around. none of this is particulary surprising or worth the mention or anything. not like original publication isn't firmly established. so let them beat up the wall until they've had enough or the bezzle runs out, whichever.
14:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i have 0 interest in garden-variety 'businessman of luxor', only in hitler's annointed poodles.
14:47 mircea_popescu how do you distinguish.
14:47 asciilifeform it is not especially hard to distinguish gavin from covertress
14:47 mircea_popescu really ?
14:47 mircea_popescu how ?
14:48 mircea_popescu ironically, both eth and whatever-that-was got raped. i'm all ears, you picked like the worst examples conceivable.
14:48 asciilifeform one starts on front page of völkischer beobachter and american tv, the other - sits in cafes sadly and wonders why it gets 51%ed for 7th time
14:48 asciilifeform *stars
14:49 mircea_popescu ie, one stars in random-lj-x, other in random-lj-y ; one sits in cafes and wonders, other sits in cafes and wonders.
14:49 mircea_popescu i see not this difference.
14:49 asciilifeform there is certainly a wide 'gray zone' of buterinade between gavin and covertress .
14:49 mircea_popescu gavin is ~a used cumsock.
↖
14:49 asciilifeform from the parking orbit of mircea_popescu's dirigible, somewhere past pluto, both look quite similar yes.
14:49 asciilifeform for earthlings - less so.
14:49 trinque one just won the hitler lottery
14:49 trinque doesn't distinguish it
14:50 asciilifeform trinque: there was no 'merit' implied in 'anointed poodle'
14:50 asciilifeform y'know, sorta like how a train wreck is just another train wreck, unless it's ~YOUR~ train wreck
14:50 asciilifeform and there's a chair up YOUR arse
14:50 PeterL http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537491 << you can say somebody was instituted into a position when they are given a job
14:50 a111 Logged on 2016-09-08 18:32 mircea_popescu: aha. except there's no "you've been inmissed". the way words work in actual languages is that you institute (say a rule) and you destitute (eg a functionary).
14:51 mircea_popescu the only difference being that khaleed started life pretending to, and here i quote, "I am one of the agents sent by the high priest to bring as many of those who are interested in becoming a member of the Illuminati to the great Illuminati temple,am a traditional herbalist healer and no problem without a solution to me but I was ones like you I could not evening feed my family what kind of life was that to live I lived in po
14:51 mircea_popescu verty until I saw an opportunity to be a member of the great Illuminati brotherhood and I took my chances and I have been a member for close to three years now and the higher you get the richer you become." whereas gavin started life pretending to be in charge of bitcoin.
14:51 mircea_popescu upon examination it came out that neither have any relation to the thing they were posturing in front of.
14:51 mircea_popescu 0 difference, really.
14:51 mircea_popescu PeterL yes, some vestiges of sanity still remain.
14:52 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you may find power analysis a useful tool in this discussion. what exactly CAN any of these do ?
14:53 mircea_popescu because powerless.1 === powerless.2 even from an orbit more interior than pluto's.
14:54 asciilifeform this leads into the sacramental question of why 'control the vertical and the horizontal! gott mit uns!111' is a thing at all.
14:54 mircea_popescu it barely holds together as a thing, and adversarially only.
14:55 asciilifeform the way i understand it, there is a population of folks susceptible to sanity. who, were they to show up here, by same happenstance, e.g., asciilifeform , did, would stand constructively on tmsr side.
14:55 mircea_popescu "we control the vertical and the" "how come i can't have a fucking gallon of gas ?" "oh sorry about that... nothing we can do."
14:55 mircea_popescu i doubt this.
14:55 asciilifeform the objective of enemy is to keep'em 'in the dark & eatin' shit'
14:56 asciilifeform which is what boeck et al are for.
14:56 mircea_popescu the folks "susceptible to sanity" are like the women "susceptible to porn queening". honey, if they were gonna they'd have been doing it already.
14:56 mircea_popescu the pretense that they may start any minute now is broadly speaking that - a pretense. who knows, maybe you send the advance fee.
14:57 mircea_popescu anyway. i don't buy into this "people good but evil govenrment corrupts". as near as i can see, "people suck and government does the best it can, as their product."
14:57 mircea_popescu ie, the dumb and deaf scion of a drunk and a whore.
14:57 asciilifeform 'people suck but for a few ppm'
14:58 asciilifeform boeck et al is to reduce the risk that taleb shows up here. etc
↖
14:58 mircea_popescu odds are that most of those "susceptible to sanity" are more or less caught in a prison of their own making, elliot style. would you blame isla vista for the guy's issues ?
14:58 mircea_popescu there's ~0 risk taleb shows up here.
14:59 asciilifeform the occasional prisoner does dig the proverbial spoon tunnel and makes a break for it.
14:59 mircea_popescu yes, but not aged 60+
14:59 mircea_popescu or to quote voltaire, "i'm too old to make new friends."
15:00 mircea_popescu same reason al schwartz doesn't make his way here ; and same exact reason i dunno, lew rockwell can't pass my idiot filter.
15:00 mircea_popescu being old sucks.
15:00 asciilifeform the other thing about the boecks is that hitler maintains - quite successfully - an atmosphere of despair and intellectual death
15:00 PeterL Guy in prison uses a spoon to dig tunnel out, pops up in a playground, jumps up and down shouting "I'm free, I'm free." A little girl walks up to him and says "So what? I'm four!"
15:01 asciilifeform lel
15:02 mircea_popescu asciilifeform dude gtfo. "hitler maintains". tell you what, if i fill a room with depressive thirty-yo-crisis chicks it's gonna be that "the room" has "an atmosphere". then if i kick them out and in the same atmosphere introduce happy-go-lucky nineteen year olds, suddenly the same room "has an atmosphere" of juvenile enthusiasm.
15:02 mircea_popescu wtf is this, "atmosphere". stop being an obnoxious bitch, that's the atmosphere.
15:02 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: every time some dude goes 'i could try and spend 20yr and maybe come up with a sane basis for crypto --- or there's that bottle of whisky. and it looks moar like a deal' hitler wins.
15:02 mircea_popescu wins what ?
15:03 asciilifeform another 1000 years of reich, wat.
15:03 mircea_popescu drunks' choices are theirs to make, what am i, borderline ?
15:04 asciilifeform british soldiers carting in convoy of rotgut barrels to distribute to australian abos, betcha, also said 'drunks' choices!'
↖
15:04 mircea_popescu the emotional color of "atmosphere" is exactly of the same origin as the "feelings" furries perceive in animals' eyes : psychogenic.
15:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yep. and they were right.
15:04 asciilifeform ya ya exceptional-individuals-are-unstoppable-whatever.
15:04 mircea_popescu idiots have no room in this world, which is why i hear their father got some real estate waiting for them somewhere else.
15:05 asciilifeform ya ya all these earthlings are idiots and only on this dirigible i'm d'artagnan ok.
15:06 mircea_popescu how do i enter into it again ?
15:06 asciilifeform well, invulnerable to 'atmosphere'
15:06 mircea_popescu these two aren't related.
15:07 asciilifeform i can already picture mircea_popescu as ww1 officer. green cloud rolls over trench, grunts coughing out their lungs, 'stop being obnoxious bitchez!111'
15:07 shinohai lolz
15:07 mircea_popescu eh gtfo. when did "atmosphere" of "depressive" suddenly catch protons and become physical chlorine.
15:07 mircea_popescu you ready to bring me a mol of "depression" gas ?
15:08 asciilifeform funnily enough usg spent decades in search of actual 'depression gas'
15:08 asciilifeform but no, that's not it.
15:08 mircea_popescu in retrospect i should prolly have said mole, but a well.
15:08 asciilifeform witness the stillbirth of cryptography as a scientific discipline.
15:09 asciilifeform i do not believe that it was a natural occurrence.
15:09 asciilifeform and cannot see how anyone with half a brain could conceive of this.
15:09 mircea_popescu the principal symptom of major depressive disorder is the delusional notion on the part of the patient that his self-enacted emotional state has some sort of physical existence independent of himself.
15:09 mircea_popescu dude... what scientific discipline isn't stillborn in the land of the suto ? seriously now.
15:10 asciilifeform epidemiology is not canceled simply on account of inability to point finger to a physical agent.
15:10 asciilifeform if 1 bloke rolls over and dies of meh - that's 1 weirdo fewer
15:10 mircea_popescu back in like...2005 iirc ? 2008 maybe ? a guy used foia to get ALL the studies on antidepressant medicine. because you know, everyone had to file them with the fda.
15:10 asciilifeform if 1,000,000,001 do - it is a proper subject of epidemiology
15:10 mircea_popescu guess what ? it turned out 30 years of research and a whole discipline was... stillborn.
15:10 asciilifeform and a result of a weapon firing.
15:10 mircea_popescu not so.
15:11 trinque what weapon fired in egypt?
15:11 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: eh, placebocin worx great.
15:11 asciilifeform trinque: u.s. dos.
15:11 trinque or did the idiots simply outfuck
15:11 trinque no the actual egypt
15:11 mircea_popescu trinque he has this constructed thing whereby "x must exist and the thing that must exist we call x".
15:11 asciilifeform trinque: dunno that anybody knows.
15:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it is the only practical alternative to 'electron moves because allah's farts push it'
15:12 mircea_popescu "we shall call allah x" ? that's your alternative ?
15:12 asciilifeform mno
15:12 mircea_popescu such alternative! i suppose next we call idiots something else also.
15:12 asciilifeform alternative is 'cut the thing or die trying'
15:12 Framedragger "North Korea bans sarcasm because Kim Jong-un fears people only agree with him ‘ironically’" http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/north-korea-bans-sarcasm-kim-jong-un-freedom-speech-a7231461.html
15:13 asciilifeform Framedragger: believe 0 of what comes out of south kr press
15:13 shinohai http://archive.is/30h6N <<< darpa news
15:13 asciilifeform which is the source of ~100% of '5 reasons north kr is CRAYYYYZEEE you MUST know'
15:13 Framedragger oh yeah. i'm there for the lulzy headlines. but you're right asciilifeform
15:13 mircea_popescu o look, the onion bought the independent
15:15 asciilifeform 'Third, develop a capability to eliminate unwanted engineered genes from environments and restore systems to their genetic baseline state.' << wat.
15:15 asciilifeform i cannot parse this document. it is output of a shannonizer.
15:16 asciilifeform in retrospect, the folks lysenko was shooting, had it good.
15:16 asciilifeform at least their opponents spoke HUMAN SPEECH
15:16 mircea_popescu allegedly.
15:16 shinohai <asciilifeform> i cannot parse this document. it is output of a shannonizer. <<< kek
15:18 shinohai I suppose ouput such as this is designed to get more $$$ in defense spending or somesuch
15:18 mircea_popescu http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/from:383/to:793#383 << lol wtf is with the derpage.
15:18 scriba Logged on 2016-09-08: [13:03:15] <mircea_popescu> as seen yesterday
15:18 mircea_popescu oh shit.
15:18 mircea_popescu Framedragger did i misread or did you say it's not doing this anymoar ?
15:18 asciilifeform iirc he turned the knob to 'spit 1 line'
15:18 asciilifeform which it did.
15:19 mircea_popescu yeah but the wrong one.
15:19 mircea_popescu http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/#793 <
15:19 scriba Logged on 2016-09-08: [17:40:27] <asciilifeform> 'Data coming from true random number generators is never 100% random. I am aware of no exceptions. Whitening is required in all cases before the data is suitable for use in cryptography.' << from first link
15:20 asciilifeform i know of ZERO exceptions to 'hey dudebroz, i built rng!111 and here's how i whitened, because MUST...'
15:20 mircea_popescu a well.
15:21 asciilifeform i find this particular mental block quite interesting
15:21 asciilifeform behind it hide many of the other pathologies in the cluster.
15:22 asciilifeform there is a fundamental (and solidly boecktronically-supported and propagated) misconception about what cryptography even IS
15:22 mircea_popescu "here's how we're being respectful to one another, because god forbid if someone should speak plainly we might hear about all those classes we skipped in college."
15:22 mircea_popescu gotta whiten, it's the cryptographical priviledge check.
15:22 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-05#1534723
15:22 a111 Logged on 2016-09-05 21:01 asciilifeform: trinque: who cribs, has not ~understood~.
15:23 asciilifeform if the indians were clever and looked as if they were at risk for discovering vaccination , quarantine, etc. and laughing off smallpox blankets, how might equally clever englishmen have countered ?
15:23 asciilifeform it is what usg did to crypto.
15:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: fwiw i skipped (well, quit ~2 wks in) crypto class in school.
15:24 asciilifeform it was barfalicious.
15:24 mircea_popescu the indians didn't stand a chance. if you think vaccination works in aboriginal population you're a very special sort of lovely.
15:24 asciilifeform well not these.
15:24 asciilifeform hypothetical alt-indians, lol.
15:24 mircea_popescu vaccination works, in yurpeans first and foremost, because we're whores. and always have been.
15:24 mircea_popescu lol, ie, french indians.
15:26 mircea_popescu (to explain the science involved : immunity works as a multi layered interplay of numerous proteins. some recognize specific bits of cells - hopefully, pathogens only, or else autoimmune response - some mark these recognitions, some others further mark, it's a whole shebang.
15:26 mircea_popescu all these proteins are created, mostly in the liver, on the basis of blueprints, which are encoded genetically. which means that if your father didn't have anywhere a marker for smallpox, and he had you with a woman who also, you are immune to vaccination : it won't express anything.
15:27 mircea_popescu vacciness work through stimulating the expression of pre existing genes/proteins/complexes, not by creating a magical forcefield around your dick.)
15:27 asciilifeform soooo mircea_popescu knows of a case of indian suffering smallpox 2+ times ?
15:28 mircea_popescu usually fatal the first time.
15:28 asciilifeform well yes.
15:28 asciilifeform but among the remainder ~10%
15:28 mircea_popescu but more's the pojnt : even in very genetically diverse populations (such as yurpeans, because colonialism! such as not redskins, because stoneage losers), a good portion of the population has poor vaccine response.
15:29 mircea_popescu they are protected however still, because "herd immunity", which is to say OTHER people not gettng it artificially reduces the "population density" from the pov of that pathogen.
15:29 mircea_popescu which permits them to live.
15:29 asciilifeform herdimmunity is kindergarten material aha
15:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i'm not prepared to go into microbiological details of smallpox. but even admitting vaccine saved 10, heck, 20% of the population. then what ?
15:30 mircea_popescu if the us lost 400mn heads tomorrow it wouldn't stand.
15:30 asciilifeform ( incidentally : for some reason nobody mentions the basic reason why savages drop like flies even from relatively mild epidemic: no slack in the gears! i.e. if no one gets out of bed for 2 weeks, EVERYONE starves )
15:31 mircea_popescu large part of how black death worked, sure.
15:31 Framedragger http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/from:995/to:995#995 << your requested citation link was http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/from:383/to:793#383 - both the anchro (383 - now preferred over from: ) and the from: point to 383, so it spits 383
15:31 scriba Logged on 2016-09-08: [13:03:15] <mircea_popescu> as seen yesterday
15:31 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if u.s. lost 400 mn heads, you will have a gaping black hole in which ~80 mn. randos will get immediately sucked in. or the like.
15:32 Framedragger but it appears the whole range thing fucks things up too much to be useful
15:32 asciilifeform >> http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-05#546998 << see also.
15:32 a111 Logged on 2014-03-05 02:44 mircea_popescu: bad wolf busts into snow white's cavern, offers her a simple deal :
15:32 mircea_popescu Framedragger meanwhile i figured out that if im careful to never use it, it won'\t mostly pop in again
15:32 Framedragger :)
15:33 mircea_popescu asciilifeform exactly what happened with indians, too. mn randos were sucked into indian lands / indian women / etc.
15:33 mircea_popescu Framedragger what's your notion of a difference between a public and secret bot ?
15:33 mircea_popescu eg, "~a111@unaffiliated/phf/bot/a111"
15:34 asciilifeform Framedragger: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/north-korea-news-latest-soldiers-nuclear-backpacks-kim-jong-un-tensions-us-south-korean-military-a7217401.html << typical gargle, '“Outstanding soldiers were selected from each reconnaissance platoon and light infantry brigade to form the nuclear backpack unit the size of a battalion,” the source from North Hamgyong province was quoted as saying. The supposed weapons were
15:34 asciilifeform said to weigh between 10 and 30 kilograms and be able to “spray radioactive material”, possibly uranium, on the enemy. It was impossible to verify the account given to Radio Free Asia, which is funded by the US government.'
15:34 mircea_popescu wasn't this ancient us army crap from like the 1950s ?
15:35 asciilifeform actual 1man nukes were a '70s item iirc.
15:35 mircea_popescu so fucking stupid. soviet workers shoveled dirt in the very core of the blasted ukrainian plant.
15:36 mircea_popescu wtf, they're going to carry a plant by the backpack so the enemy has to take 10 minute breaks after every two minutes of shooting ?
15:36 asciilifeform but if mircea_popescu was speaking of 'making up hilarious horseshit about north kr', yes, was american sport stating in '50s.
15:36 asciilifeform *starting
15:36 mircea_popescu who the fuck thinks this works. seriously now. trying to shoot the idiot is hard enough, but to disable enemy combatants by spraying "uranium" on them...
15:37 mircea_popescu !~search golania accident
15:37 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: (search <word>) -- Searches for <word> in the current configuration variables.
15:37 mircea_popescu !~google golania accident
15:37 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Goiânia accident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%25C3%25A2nia_accident>; The Radiological Accident in Goiânia - IAEA Publications: <http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/publications/PDF/Pub815_web.pdf>; Goiânia incident Brasil - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dfh-VqehmgCQ>
15:37 asciilifeform mircea_popescu had entire article about subj
15:37 mircea_popescu ^ actual spoonfull of straight cesium, complete with chereknov blue glow, handled. by hand.
15:37 Framedragger mircea_popescu: secret bot is an irc user in a channel which no-one knows to be a bot (or a bot of particular use). scriba also has that kind of hostmask (unaffiliated/framedragger/bot/scriba) but everyone knows what scriba is for.
15:37 Framedragger but i have to stop presenting ideas i do not really believe in myself. i guess i thought it may garner some useful feedback tho.
15:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it never ceases to amaze me.
15:37 asciilifeform >> http://trilema.com/2013/a-simple-example-as-to-why-fiat-institutions-cant-stand <<
15:38 trinque Framedragger: didn't it?
15:38 mircea_popescu lol
15:39 trinque the forum works.
15:39 Framedragger it did, it did! but i feel i may be wasting people's time by asking to look into half-baked ideas
15:39 trinque feel free to review some of my half-bakery from old logs.
15:39 mircea_popescu http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/from:840/to:840#840 << freenode kinda leaks ips, so the hostmask is not THAT strong a protection anywya.
15:39 scriba Logged on 2016-09-08: [18:26:30] <Framedragger> thru other services and just plain syn flood or w/e
15:39 Framedragger like, there's a line between stimulating the forum and trolling that should not be breached
15:40 Framedragger trinque: coolcool. and yeah thanks :)
15:40 PeterL one man's (alf's) half-baked idea is better than another's work of art
15:41 Framedragger !~bash 1
15:41 jhvh1 Last 1 lines bashed and pending publication
15:41 trinque provoke him bad enough and he might even teach you something.
15:43 mircea_popescu speaking of which, http://66.media.tumblr.com/972ca1e498f8ab9b5eb2e6855486116f/tumblr_od6l2tEkYa1uhn2lfo2_1280.jpg
15:44 asciilifeform l0l!
15:45 asciilifeform is that a 100amp mains cable feeding into the cow skull ?
15:45 mircea_popescu looks like it.
15:51 Framedragger from a friend mentioning release of iphone 7 and seeing this pic http://i.imgur.com/SAkZ0C4.jpg i just realized that apple didn't put a fucking 3.5mm jack into their newest shit"phone". srsly.
15:51 Framedragger hence alf's quotes above
15:51 Framedragger lol.
15:52 mircea_popescu iphone 7 ? srsly ?!
15:53 mircea_popescu by the time ice age 24 is available "only in select theatres" because nobody can be arsed to torrent it they'll be ready with iphone 17 ?
15:53 Framedragger i know right?
15:54 Framedragger "phone"
16:00 asciilifeform Framedragger: thread >> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-07#1536473 >> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537331
16:00 a111 Logged on 2016-09-07 19:27 asciilifeform: 'AirPods will use Infrared sensors to detect when they’re in your ears, playing only when they’re in your ears. The setup process is super easy — connect the AirPods once to your iPhone, and the AirPods instantly sync over iCloud to your other devices. From there, you never worry about them again.' >> oblig. >> http://www.loper-os.org/?p=752
16:00 a111 Logged on 2016-09-08 16:34 asciilifeform: http://i-cdn.phonearena.com/images/articles/256205-thumb/AirPods-header.jpg << is it just me or do these look like... smokes ?
16:10 ben_vulpes iVape
16:10 shinohai only uses crapple-flavoured e-liquid ?
16:12 ben_vulpes proprietary nico fix
16:21 shinohai ty BingoBoingo
16:22 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/09/well-fargo-fined-over-non-consensual-account-openings/ << Qntra - Well Fargo Fined Over Non-Consensual Account Openings
16:22 BingoBoingo !~ty shinohai
16:22 jhvh1 You are very welcome Daddy
16:22 shinohai sfy fiat lawz
16:30 mircea_popescu lol
~ 47 minutes ~
17:18 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/09/kim-jung-un-bans-sarcasm/ << Qntra - Kim Jung Un Bans Sarcasm
17:19 BingoBoingo ^ backdoor election update, in the pooper
17:21 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-30#1218462 & other threads.
17:21 a111 Logged on 2015-07-30 19:42 ascii_field: trinque: virtually everything printed in english re: north kr is a bold-faced lie out of the mouth of south kr
17:22 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Maybe, but from the lie flow many truths!
17:22 asciilifeform how's that
17:22 BingoBoingo Well, read past the headline for the other Kim Jung Uns
17:22 BingoBoingo The ones that don't require sarcasm
17:24 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-20#1025370 << see also.
17:24 a111 Logged on 2015-02-20 00:46 asciilifeform: if it takes a batshit king and world's thickest minefield to keep out 'mcdonalds', it might yet turn out to be worth it.
17:38 BingoBoingo !!up gabriel_laddel
17:38 deedbot gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
17:38 BingoBoingo Good afternoon Gabby
17:38 gabriel_laddel Hey there. On a much better connection today.
17:39 gabriel_laddel http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1536791 < they're not bad. ~A power bar you buy in bulk.
17:39 a111 Logged on 2016-09-08 02:09 asciilifeform: http://www.mealsquares.com << turns out - they do exist.
17:40 gabriel_laddel Soylent "food bars" are much tastier though.
17:40 trinque millenial hardtack!
17:41 trinque lol
17:41 BingoBoingo One can also buy "power bars" in bulk and not regret their life choices as they eat mostly read food with the occasional "power bar"
17:43 trinque gabriel_laddel: what's new in the mclim-mines
17:43 trinque *mcclim
17:44 gabriel_laddel I'm translating the spec from HTML to CLIM.
↖
17:45 gabriel_laddel http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-06#1535380 < also, glad to see someone reads the logs. These new n00bs don't seem to be aware of ~any past discussions.
17:45 a111 Logged on 2016-09-06 23:27 trinque: all roads lead to make 50 billion dollars, then cry as alf says it's not enough
17:45 trinque not enough "read 6mos of logs" beatings.
17:46 trinque ah not in that case though. mod6 has perfectly legitimate interest there, and so do I.
17:46 trinque thought it was another recent thread.
17:47 gabriel_laddel iirc it was pretty clear that mod6 needs to read loper-os, but what do I know.
17:48 trinque heh! I'd be careful with that, masamune-san!
17:55 gabriel_laddel O right, that's why I dropped in here the other day.
17:55 gabriel_laddel http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-07#1536499
17:55 a111 Logged on 2016-09-07 21:35 mircea_popescu: (apparently a badly balanced something or the other by steve yegge - you know, the supposedly notable derp behind http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com2006/04/lisp-is-not-acceptable-lisp.html and a whole load of java, ruby etc)
17:57 mircea_popescu oh that was the other thing! "soylent". ran by some douchy dood with all sorts of "gonzo" marketing ideas, vaguely reminescent of the airbnb clowns.
17:57 mircea_popescu anyway, eating trail mix for survival, in town. what's wrong with you know, cuisine.
17:57 gabriel_laddel Fucking Yegge and everyone else who was involved with CL, even tangentially did a huge disservice to the language. He (and rich hicky) complains and complains about issues that can be solved with a few macros.
17:58 mircea_popescu wait, the clim authoritative spec exists as a html ?!
↖
17:58 gabriel_laddel and a .pdf
17:58 mircea_popescu sigh.
17:58 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
17:58 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 623.88, vol: 4131.39162265 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 622.01, vol: 6582.60806 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 628.47, vol: 8206.62208263 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 622.275, vol: 220339.85000000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 626.63, vol: 1012.33540838 | Volume-weighted last average: 622.525278996
17:59 BingoBoingo ^ The silence is wonder
18:08 gabriel_laddel Does anyone know of / has created a database of hardware offerings from various vendors?
↖
18:17 deedbot http://trilema.com/2016/welcome-to-baluba-island/ << Trilema - Welcome to Baluba Island.
~ 16 minutes ~
18:33 BingoBoingo gabriel_laddel: What kind of hardware are you looking for?
18:37 trinque lol check it out, black superior seed fanfic
~ 32 minutes ~
19:09 mircea_popescu aaaand in other news, http://67.media.tumblr.com/c2ba427794f9125fa67e4c873463f556/tumblr_nrry0fyBYY1uwmvxto1_400.gif
~ 20 minutes ~
19:29 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/09/politician-who-audited-elections-board-security-sentenced/ << Qntra - Politician Who Audited Elections Board Security Sentenced
19:29 BingoBoingo ^ More other news
~ 15 minutes ~
19:45 mod6 We are pretty much at the point of starting V-ify these makefiles.
19:45 mod6 And in doing so, it kinda brings us back to a previous discussion.
19:46 * shinohai takes down the samovar to make tea for this discussion.
19:46 mod6 It was my first hunch, during a pre-emptive go around with this to not place the makefiles in with current source base -- as pressed out via V.
↖
19:47 mod6 We discussed this, it was Mr. P.'s hunch that these should belong together (I hope I'm remembering this correctly), and I saw the wisdom in that.
19:47 mod6 And we haven't discussed it since.
19:50 mod6 When creating a makefile vpatch (for examplehttp://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ebmj3/?raw=true), and then you press this out, you end up with something like this:
19:51 mod6 http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/xmr8g/?raw=true
19:52 mod6 The problem is here, that when you run `make`, it'll build everthing under: build/rotor/TEST2/bitcoin/src despite the fact that the source is really under src/
19:52 mod6 this is because the makefile process does it's own V press.
19:53 mod6 Anyway, I bring this up because if we're determined to stick with this plan; the Makefiles included with the bitcoin source, then there is another ball of wax that needs to be discussed.
19:55 mod6 I think that keeping the Makefiles as a separate V tree would keep things a lot more clean.
19:59 mod6 Altogether, since we have V, I like the idea of keeping things like makefiles and buildscripts out of the main source tree. One can get V, press the makefile project. Run a `make`, which will in-turn, press everything via V and then build with buildroot.
20:11 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537778 << be more specific plox?
20:11 a111 Logged on 2016-09-08 22:08 gabriel_laddel: Does anyone know of / has created a database of hardware offerings from various vendors?
20:12 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537788 << at one time rotor was not the only builder, and so i cut'em off
20:12 a111 Logged on 2016-09-08 23:46 mod6: It was my first hunch, during a pre-emptive go around with this to not place the makefiles in with current source base -- as pressed out via V.
20:12 asciilifeform now it has 0 reason
20:13 * asciilifeform brb, meat
20:18 mod6 I can't make heads or tails out out of what you're saying there asciilifeform.
20:18 mod6 When you come back, maybe we can discuss what you're trying to exactly say.
20:28 mod6 oh, if you're saying that the rotor is no longer needed, i can agree with that. to an extent anyway.
↖
20:29 mod6 the two .sh scripts you have in there can be integrated into the makefiles directly i think. however, we'll still need the openssl-004-musl-termios.patch and rotor_buildroot_dot_config
20:33 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-09#1537806 <<< noooo
20:33 a111 Logged on 2016-09-09 00:28 mod6: oh, if you're saying that the rotor is no longer needed, i can agree with that. to an extent anyway.
20:33 asciilifeform the OLD build is obsolete
20:33 asciilifeform the pre-musl 'stator'
20:34 mod6 oh yeah, we're not reall messing with any of that stuff. stator hasn't been a part of the 'orchastra' for some time now.
20:39 mod6 so, im not 100% off the top of my head, but getting rid of the two rotor build script and integrating that portion into our makefiles ~might~ resolve at least part of the source redundancy issue.
20:40 shinohai Seriously mod6 it's coming along great, today's makefile build was so easy these Eulora noobs could probably do it.
20:41 mod6 good to hear :]
20:44 mod6 Actually, I forgot, trinque already did that part. Makefile.rotor exists.
20:45 mod6 It would probably need some tweaks in there ... hmm.
20:49 mod6 Well, if it could be done without having to move anything that is already in place (as far as bitcoin is concerned), then it might work out alright.
20:51 mod6 Will try to work that out.
20:55 mod6 This hypothetical solution, even if it does work, wouldn't make it a one-button-push solution. Why? A person would need to get V + V.sig, verify, create a .wot dir, sync the patches + seals, manually or automatically, press the tree, then navigate into the pressed tree, and then `make`.
20:56 mod6 The simplest solution would be to perhaps have a deedified tarball of makefiles, much like trinque already has, get the deed, verifiy it, decode it, extract it, navigate to the make script and `make`.
20:57 mod6 Then let the makefiles do all the rest of the heavy lifting.
20:57 mod6 bbs.
~ 51 minutes ~
21:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform what ip was zoolag before ?
21:51 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 72.83.9.184
21:51 asciilifeform !!up boolcrap
21:51 deedbot boolcrap voiced for 30 minutes.
21:51 boolcrap yo
21:52 mircea_popescu i had 72.83.9.196
21:54 asciilifeform was definitely 72.83.9.184.
21:54 asciilifeform $s 72.83.9.196
21:54 a111 3 results for "72.83.9.196", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=72.83.9.196
21:54 asciilifeform old.
21:54 asciilifeform pre-dates the ~last~ fiber cut, heh.
21:54 mod6 i've got: 72.83.9.184 listed on the foundation site. is it back up now with different ip alf?
21:55 asciilifeform mod6: yes, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537106
21:55 a111 Logged on 2016-09-08 13:42 asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/jxdrx/?raw=true
21:56 asciilifeform boolcrap: how's the gulag ?
21:57 boolcrap pretty good
21:57 boolcrap its a solid gig
21:57 boolcrap they got lots of peanut bars and seltzer water
21:57 mod6 asciilifeform: verified, thanks!
21:58 mod6 & updated
22:07 mircea_popescu http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/from:998/to:1160#998 << so basically we got v running twice ?
22:07 scriba Logged on 2016-09-08: [19:19:02] <mircea_popescu> yeah but the wrong one.
22:08 mircea_popescu http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/from:998/to:1163#998 << so then every time you try to get software running you have to two two presses, one of makefiles, one of sourcefiles ?
22:08 scriba Logged on 2016-09-08: [19:19:02] <mircea_popescu> yeah but the wrong one.
22:08 mircea_popescu oh ffs
22:08 asciilifeform blergh
22:09 asciilifeform try in the classic log ?
22:09 mircea_popescu Framedragger can we stop having this "multiline" bs unless specifically togled on somehow ?
↖
22:09 mircea_popescu meanwhile http://66.media.tumblr.com/a2030738cf42c481f0ba7412b18b0c81/tumblr_oa73fsi0hH1v01y6oo1_1280.jpg
22:09 mircea_popescu and :
22:09 mircea_popescu http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/#1160 << so basically we got v running twice ?
22:09 scriba Logged on 2016-09-08: [23:52:51] <mod6> this is because the makefile process does it's own V press.
22:09 mircea_popescu http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/#1163 << so then every time you try to get software running you have to two two presses, one of makefiles, one of sourcefiles ?
22:09 scriba Logged on 2016-09-08: [23:59:57] <mod6> Altogether, since we have V, I like the idea of keeping things like makefiles and buildscripts out of the main source tree. One can get V, press the makefile project. Run a `make`, which will in-turn, press everything via V and then build with buildroot.
22:10 asciilifeform i admit that the thing where v is invoked from inside a make always bothered me.
22:10 asciilifeform invocations of v are meant to be ~conscious~
22:10 asciilifeform i.e. manual.
22:10 mircea_popescu myeah.
22:11 asciilifeform like firing a pistol.
22:11 mircea_popescu this isn't quite right as i understand it.
22:11 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160908/#1160 << so basically we got v running twice ? << yeah, which wont do. after my monologue earlier, I have a hunch that I might be able to get it down to a single press.
22:11 scriba Logged on 2016-09-08: [23:52:51] <mod6> this is because the makefile process does it's own V press.
22:11 mircea_popescu why does make run a v anywya ?
↖
22:12 mod6 well it's earliest implementation, was a clone of our build scripts, which, used V to pull and press the source.
22:13 mod6 anyway, i might be able to get it so that you press the tree, including the makefiles, and then just build.
22:13 asciilifeform ^ the right thing.
22:13 mircea_popescu ok let's approach it this way : what is so special about the make files that they get their own tree ? why not say, all .c files get their own, all .h files get their separate own ? inasmuch as you can't use the makefiles without the sources, they belong in the same tree as the sources.
22:13 mod6 (working on that / testing it now)
22:13 mircea_popescu right, exactly.
22:13 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: at one point we had 3 (then 2) quite separate types of builder.
22:14 mircea_popescu yes i know
22:14 mircea_popescu the early history of v is shrowded in chaos./
22:14 mod6 yeah, after discussing with myself in here mainly, i'm not in love with that solution either.
22:15 mod6 i could go on here.. but let's just say i didn't think it all the way through.
22:16 mircea_popescu in other news, who mentioned pull chord ? http://66.media.tumblr.com/a2030738cf42c481f0ba7412b18b0c81/tumblr_oa73fsi0hH1v01y6oo1_1280.jpg
22:16 boolcrap oh my
22:16 boolcrap she was bad
22:17 mod6 i'll see where i can get to with this new idea. however, a person would have to do this to build the entire thing: get v; verify v; put vpatches, seals, and keys in place; press; then navigate to pressed dir, then `make`.
↖
22:17 asciilifeform boolcrap: looks like anyone you remember from the old dayz ?
22:17 asciilifeform boolcrap: because i think she does.
22:17 boolcrap LOL
22:17 mod6 does this seem acceptable?
22:17 boolcrap ur right
22:17 boolcrap same hair same body type
22:17 boolcrap meanwhile in america https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=8105
22:17 asciilifeform boolcrap: i bet it was her.
22:17 boolcrap we can only hope
22:18 mircea_popescu mod6 make can't make from arbitrary dir ?
22:18 mod6 well, one would still need to press everything out, which includes the source and makefiles in this case.
22:19 mircea_popescu " then navigate to pressed dir, " << i mean.
22:19 mod6 which, seems to be the "pistols" way
22:19 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> " then navigate to pressed dir, " << i mean. << ah, ok yeah one ~might~ be able to do that. not an expert on make tho.
22:19 mod6 that's the easy part imho. the hard part is getting v, et. al., set up.
22:20 asciilifeform mod6: see my original rotor makefile. it chdirs to the dep dirs, makes there, etc.
22:20 asciilifeform not hard.
22:20 mod6 ok. that's a minor consideration.
22:20 mod6 not a problem then.
22:20 mircea_popescu yeah. minor point
22:21 asciilifeform was there a major point ?
22:21 mod6 the setup of v; verify v; place everything where it needs to go, etc.
22:21 mod6 for you and I, this is routine.
22:21 mod6 for most people, not so.
22:21 asciilifeform !!up boolcrap
22:21 deedbot boolcrap voiced for 30 minutes.
22:22 asciilifeform mod6: dunno that vtronic builds will ever be a 'most people' affair.
↖ ↖
22:22 asciilifeform it is more like flying than driving, if you will.
22:22 mircea_popescu aaanyway
22:22 mircea_popescu so i'd say sounds good, mod6
22:23 mod6 thanks Gentlemen. I'll keep polishing here. more to come, I'm sure.
22:23 asciilifeform good work mod6
22:23 mod6 thx asciilifeform
22:25 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537772 << before clim, common lisp's authoritative spec exists as... dead tree. while the version that ~everyone actually works from is html. because no, it is unusable without hyperlinking. >> http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front
22:25 a111 Logged on 2016-09-08 21:58 mircea_popescu: wait, the clim authoritative spec exists as a html ?!
22:27 asciilifeform ( most cl-using folk keep a copy on own disk. it is even a gentoo port . )
22:28 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537758 << i never understood why the thing was published as html and not as a sexpr thing that gets htmlificated when you like
22:28 a111 Logged on 2016-09-08 21:44 gabriel_laddel: I'm translating the spec from HTML to CLIM.
22:28 mircea_popescu for instance.
22:28 asciilifeform considering that we can be quite certain that this is what it began life as.
22:28 asciilifeform given as the thing PREDATES HTML
22:29 mircea_popescu the ~only possible interpretation is that people simply suck at knowing what they got.
22:29 asciilifeform in all fairness, the lisp world was hit by the equivalent of thermonuke war, and buncha stuff was lost / mixed up / dusted over.
22:29 phf fwiw dpans has a copy of tex source, first or second to last draft before the standard was sent over to ansi. there's two projects that cleanup that tex, one is dpans2texi which produces texinfo formatted (this is what i use from emacs) and another by some russians that produces a clean pdf with hyperlinks
22:29 mircea_popescu oh ?
22:30 asciilifeform phf: hilariously, i've been trying to buy the dead tree for eons
22:30 asciilifeform phf: tried many times to have it printed in oncie copy, but NOBODY will promise it in ONE COVER
22:30 asciilifeform because you can't get printondemand books on 'bible paper', only heavy laserpaper
22:31 asciilifeform some dude got to naggum's death library copy just before i did...
22:31 asciilifeform *before i could
22:31 phf i have an ansi copy, it's a piece of shit though
22:31 asciilifeform nth generation xerox in a 3ring, aha
22:32 asciilifeform forgetit
22:32 phf yeap
22:32 asciilifeform i want the thing printed on archival paper and bound in motherfucking human leather.
22:34 mircea_popescu speaking of http://66.media.tumblr.com/a2030738cf42c481f0ba7412b18b0c81/tumblr_oa73fsi0hH1v01y6oo1_1280.jpg
22:34 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i think boolcrap and i knew that chick in meatspace.
22:34 mircea_popescu which one ?
22:34 asciilifeform the one just linked
22:34 asciilifeform and again earlier
22:34 asciilifeform (same pic)
22:35 phf asciilifeform: i'm sure you've seen this version http://glyf.org/tmp/CL-ANSI.pdf
22:35 mircea_popescu o oops, wrong pic.
22:35 mircea_popescu meant http://67.media.tumblr.com/63a61ac5b255a869ae7da3262b671b4b/tumblr_oawqlhESbf1tplof1o1_1280.jpg
22:35 asciilifeform phf: yes. it's the one nobody can print into 1 b00k
22:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what's a bbc faggot
22:36 phf why is that? i've never tried
22:36 mircea_popescu dude watching airstrip one betamedia ?
22:36 asciilifeform phf: 1300 pg of laser paper takes up too much width
22:37 phf ah, i see. "bible paper vs laserpaper"
22:37 asciilifeform aha.
22:38 asciilifeform i dun need 1300 pg of laser paper anywhere. except possibly at my peine forte et dure !
22:39 asciilifeform clhs wants to live on the thin, glossy paper that bibles were once printed on.
22:39 asciilifeform naggum even noted this at some point in mid-'90s
22:39 phf one day orcs perhaps will use it to last through the night, as a kindle
22:39 asciilifeform lol yes
22:39 boolcrap lol
22:39 boolcrap hat picture
22:39 asciilifeform (though laser paper burns atrociously, it is treated with fire retardant so that to survive the fuser)
22:42 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-09#1537866 << aha, evolving from earlier build scripts but has to go
22:42 a111 Logged on 2016-09-09 02:11 mircea_popescu: why does make run a v anywya ?
22:42 trinque in no small part because V is utterly useful as a tool on its own
22:42 asciilifeform now to be fair, phf, that's 680 sheets of paper.
22:42 trinque needs to end up in /usr/local/bin/v handily
22:43 asciilifeform but that is still far too much. (consider how a single american pack of paper holds 500 sheets, and its dimensions )
22:43 phf asciilifeform: have you tried contacting one of the dedicated bible printing shops? they could possibly do a small batch for you. spend int, sell the rest through wot
22:43 asciilifeform phf: actual presses generally are nosy and ask copyrasty questions
22:43 asciilifeform but it's always worth a try.
22:43 phf hmm hmm
22:43 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-09#1537881 << presence of the sync command simplifies this neh?
22:43 a111 Logged on 2016-09-09 02:17 mod6: i'll see where i can get to with this new idea. however, a person would have to do this to build the entire thing: get v; verify v; put vpatches, seals, and keys in place; press; then navigate to pressed dir, then `make`.
22:44 asciilifeform ( down side is that it is too much like work )
22:44 trinque I use sync in my instructions for logbot
22:44 asciilifeform waitasec
22:44 asciilifeform wtf is 'sync'
22:44 asciilifeform that was not in my vtron.
22:44 phf asciilifeform: you don't want to know.
22:44 trinque now I did it
22:44 asciilifeform lol
22:46 trinque http://trinque.org/src/logbot/ << v.pl sync pulls from a URL structure like this one, populates patches and seals
22:46 trinque discuss!
22:47 asciilifeform what's wrong with pulling a tarball and using v like normal people ?
22:47 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-09#1537908 << this may point to the whole thing having too much "end user friendly" concern
22:47 a111 Logged on 2016-09-09 02:22 asciilifeform: mod6: dunno that vtronic builds will ever be a 'most people' affair.
22:48 trinque foundation signs release, shmoe on street uses
22:54 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-09#1537851 << omg teh bikeshedding!!!11!!1
22:54 a111 Logged on 2016-09-09 02:09 mircea_popescu: Framedragger can we stop having this "multiline" bs unless specifically togled on somehow ?
~ 24 minutes ~
23:19 mod6 <+trinque> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-09#1537908 << this may point to the whole thing having too much "end user friendly" concern << fair enough, but many moons ago it was requested that it be a one-button-push launch.
23:19 a111 Logged on 2016-09-09 02:22 asciilifeform: mod6: dunno that vtronic builds will ever be a 'most people' affair.
~ 28 minutes ~
23:48 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes it's not bikeshedding when i actually use it.
23:48 mircea_popescu mod6 i dun think the one button push got cancelled.
23:49 mircea_popescu nerways ill be back tomorro
23:50 mircea_popescu meanwhile i shall leave you with http://67.media.tumblr.com/d8015f0fb3262cd6466ba75c2a376949/tumblr_o9jf3wT0YF1vyji3fo1_1280.jpg
23:51 mod6 ah, ok then. have a good night.
23:52 mod6 cute girls.
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