Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-08-01 | 2015-08-03 → ↓
00:02 decimation http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Aspen-Colorado/ "Average price per square foot for Aspen CO was $909, an increase of 23% compared to the same period last year."
↖
00:03 decimation http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/11968-Southampton/ "Average price per square foot for homes in 11968 was $1,010, an increase of 81.7% compared to the same period last year. "
00:11 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35100 @ 0.00051961 = 18.2383 BTC [+] {4}
00:14 decimation http://woodbury-house.com/the-contemporary-art-market-trends-january-2015/ "Over the last ten years, the Art market has grown from $22bn in 2003 to $56,1bn in 2013. All in all, what will be probably reminded from 2014, are the astronics turnovers realized by Sotheby’s and Christie’s on Contemporary art auction in 2014."
00:14 assbot Woodbury House Gallery | The Contemporary Art Market Trends - January 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1MCToAr )
00:16 BingoBoingo This might be interesting workstation board http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182957
00:16 assbot SUPERMICRO MBD-H9SKV-420 Mini ITX Server Motherboard BGA 769 (FT3) AMD G-series SOC DDR3 1600 - Newegg.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1MCTBnt )
00:17 decimation no ecc?
00:17 BingoBoingo Damn, chip supposedly supports it, board doesn't
00:22 cazalla BingoBoingo, why not dual nvdia titans for eulora?!
00:23 BingoBoingo I'll prolly just wait for Eulora emacs edition. There's no source package floating around for cg toolkit so it won't openBSD unless I rip it out.
00:23 cazalla or maybe a VR system like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR-lxPhGunU
00:23 assbot The Future - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1MCUix0 )
~ 19 minutes ~
00:43 * BingoBoingo put a bitcent against rousey tonight on a shitbook for the lulz
00:45 decimation http://worldif.economist.com/article/8/what-if-the-panama-canal-gets-a-rival-trench-warfare-in-nicaragua "After all, what wouldn’t China pay to see one of its naval fleets one day emerging from the Central American jungle right under America’s nose?"
00:45 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1IgLQhG )
00:47 trinque BingoBoingo: http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-ufc-rousey-correia-20150801-story.html << damn correia's eyes alone make me want to see this fight
00:47 assbot Bethe Correia vows to take fight to Ronda Rousey in UFC title match - LA Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1IgM48i )
00:47 trinque also, that's a pretty reasonable vow
00:47 BingoBoingo trinque: I'm not watching if I hear it is interesting may acquire later. Otherwise, just liked the odds
00:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45534 @ 0.00050402 = 22.95 BTC [-] {2}
00:52 decimation BingoBoingo: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fe92x/im_ashley_barr_aka_adam_turner_the_first_mtgox/ < might be good for some lulz
00:52 assbot I'm Ashley Barr, A.K.A "Adam Turner", the first Mt.Gox employee, and alleged DPR (:/). AMA : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1MCWSDf )
00:56 BingoBoingo decimation: I've been following it a bit, but I dunno how much to trust the source
00:58 BingoBoingo By source I mean a long dead account on a social media site desperate for interactions
00:59 decimation yeah, I would take with a big cube of salt
01:02 BingoBoingo I just remember when the satosi@gmx.com email address was "revived"
01:12 BingoBoingo !up a3voices
01:12 BingoBoingo Hello a3voices
01:13 a3voices hi
01:13 BingoBoingo What bring you around these parts?
01:13 a3voices nothing specific, just looking for good channels
01:14 BingoBoingo cool
01:14 BingoBoingo If you want to keep voice prolly best to register with assbot
01:14 BingoBoingo !h
01:14 assbot http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot
01:24 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38632 @ 0.00050402 = 19.4713 BTC [-]
01:26 a3voices cool well now I have a pgp key for the first time
01:29 BingoBoingo Which version did you use roughly?
01:29 cazalla if ya ever wanted to know what australian welfare recipients were like, this is pretty spot on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s96drQkfpPI
01:29 assbot Damo and Darren 3 - 'Centrelink' - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1IgODXZ )
01:30 a3voices gpg (GnuPG) 1.4.13
01:30 BingoBoingo good a3voices
01:31 BingoBoingo !up pete_dushenski
01:35 BingoBoingo So, since everyone is apparently looking at db behavior in BTC now... A few hours ago I reset my BIOS clock back a full day. Rightly It refused to acknowledge blocks more than two hours into the future. Then I reset clock to be right. Client refused to correct itself all at once. However many block it scooped up in the verifying databases phase seems to be as far as it got before permawedgeing. Killing and restating fixed issue. B
01:35 BingoBoingo ehavior was on 0.7.whyamIdoingthis and I lack any idea for making a better report. Also vodka. This is definitely an edgecase. Killing and restarting Bitcoin until verify database phase of startup ate all blocks on disk seems to have remedied issue.
01:35 BingoBoingo !Up shovel_boss_
01:37 BingoBoingo Thing is at 368044 nao reports fully sync'd
01:39 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35300 @ 0.00050377 = 17.7831 BTC [-] {6}
01:40 BingoBoingo Test was not a planned test. Popped hard drive with weirdOS in laptop and it fucked BIOS clock.
01:41 BingoBoingo No idea of impact on TheRealBitcoin if any
01:45 BingoBoingo !up a3voices
01:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39250 @ 0.0005037 = 19.7702 BTC [-]
02:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27048 @ 0.00052254 = 14.1337 BTC [+] {3}
02:01 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4181 @ 0.00052255 = 2.1848 BTC [+]
02:12 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28850 @ 0.00052628 = 15.1832 BTC [+] {3}
~ 23 minutes ~
02:36 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17300 @ 0.0005379 = 9.3057 BTC [+] {3}
~ 34 minutes ~
03:10 cazalla BingoBoingo, did ya bet for or against rousey?
03:11 BingoBoingo cazalla: Against, but just a Bitcent, learning moderation
03:11 cazalla was rousey fav?
03:16 BingoBoingo By more than 10x
~ 43 minutes ~
04:00 gernika ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221791 << Built it. It runs and syncs.
04:00 assbot Logged on 02-08-2015 00:40:26; mircea_popescu: you could just rebuild for your platform.
04:00 gribble The operation succeeded.
04:04 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20097 @ 0.00053394 = 10.7306 BTC [-]
~ 1 hours 35 minutes ~
05:40 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12459 @ 0.00051591 = 6.4277 BTC [-] {4}
05:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9400 @ 0.00053705 = 5.0483 BTC [+]
~ 54 minutes ~
06:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29500 @ 0.00054019 = 15.9356 BTC [+] {5}
~ 37 minutes ~
07:20 scoopbot_revived F.MPIF July 2015 trading statement http://explo.yt/post/2015/08/02/F.MPIF-July-2015-trading-statement
~ 31 minutes ~
07:52 fluffypony lol davout
07:52 fluffypony reddit hates your comments :-P
07:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19150 @ 0.00054054 = 10.3513 BTC [+]
~ 19 minutes ~
08:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37550 @ 0.00054585 = 20.4967 BTC [+] {5}
~ 25 minutes ~
08:41 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00052824 = 7.1312 BTC [-]
08:47 chetty http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/currency/11777486/Executive-arrested-over-disappearance-of-390-million-in-Bitcoins.html
08:47 assbot Executive arrested over disappearance of $390 million in Bitcoins - Telegraph ... ( http://bit.ly/1fWcG6Y )
~ 31 minutes ~
09:18 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10220 @ 0.0005282 = 5.3982 BTC [-] {5}
09:19 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11144 @ 0.00051459 = 5.7346 BTC [-] {2}
~ 39 minutes ~
09:59 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18566 @ 0.00050924 = 9.4545 BTC [-] {5}
10:03 mircea_popescu gernika wd.
10:10 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221808 << ok, but the broad point is still "technology makes it easier". sure. to what ? to whatever. sure.
10:10 assbot Logged on 02-08-2015 01:30:55; asciilifeform: (which was, that www makes things very easy for the censor, much easier at any rate than rounding up 10,000 books to burn)
10:11 mircea_popescu is it easier for censor to censor documents if documents are deliberately created in easy to censor ways ? sure.
10:11 mircea_popescu is it easier for anti-censor to create documents in formats not easy to censor ? sure.
10:11 mircea_popescu etc.
10:12 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221813 << how is a 32 bit machine going to build for another platform if one doesn't deliberately put the "build for other platforms" code in there!
10:12 assbot Logged on 02-08-2015 01:32:00; asciilifeform: multilib not relevant!
10:12 mircea_popescu obviously c will compile for anything. but not by itself!
10:14 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221837 << on and off.
10:14 assbot Logged on 02-08-2015 01:47:14; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you still getting ^this on your nodes ?
10:20 ben_vulpes phf: http://paste.lisp.org/display/152826 << nifty!
10:20 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1IxKwpO )
10:21 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221842 << exactly. the behaviour itself can not be reproduced over lans.
10:21 assbot Logged on 02-08-2015 02:11:18; asciilifeform: it also ~never~ happens between directly-connected nodes on my lan, for example.
10:23 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1221858 << how the fuck does this work, 1k per sqft omfg.
10:23 assbot Logged on 02-08-2015 04:02:50; decimation: http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Aspen-Colorado/ "Average price per square foot for Aspen CO was $909, an increase of 23% compared to the same period last year."
10:23 mircea_popescu euro housing costs ~1-2 keuro per sqmp! that's a fucking degree of magnitude.
10:24 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00054026 = 22.0426 BTC [+] {3}
10:25 ben_vulpes http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/portland-oregon
10:25 ben_vulpes ehuhueeuhe
10:25 ben_vulpes gaze ye and weep
10:26 mircea_popescu i have no idea why anyone would do this.
10:27 mircea_popescu i point and laugh at the locals six digit price delusions for real estate in the dead centre of ba.
10:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20050 @ 0.00052554 = 10.5371 BTC [-]
10:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24900 @ 0.00054773 = 13.6385 BTC [+] {3}
10:42 mircea_popescu kakobrekla i just looked at online.net. nowhere does it advertise hosting illegal content. i'm not giving them any money.
10:42 kakobrekla hosting illegal content?
10:43 mircea_popescu to qualify for any payments, a host must prominently advertise hosting illegal content.
10:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10150 @ 0.00055022 = 5.5847 BTC [+]
10:43 mircea_popescu yep.
10:43 mircea_popescu i will not give money to derps who follow usg.
10:43 kakobrekla where does phoenixnap do that pls show
10:43 mircea_popescu you understand how grandfathering works right ?
10:44 mircea_popescu in any case : i will not pay any isp that fails to advertise ignoring "law".
10:44 kakobrekla you are worried about dmca?
10:44 kakobrekla i dont see phoenixnap doing it, so whatevs.
10:44 mircea_popescu i am worried about living in a world which contains isps that follow "law"
10:46 mircea_popescu and yes, it's a difficult principle to apply uniformly, and yes i don't universally managing atm. nevertheless, i'm not taking stuff back to the dumbass world. and yes i think it'd be just grand if everyone follows it wherever possible.
10:46 kakobrekla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-05-2015#1125737 < funny.
10:46 assbot Logged on 08-05-2015 21:46:38; asciilifeform: i guess my red-hot doug lenat k001 w4r3z stays on kako's box, l0l
10:47 mircea_popescu it's purely a pr thing. got to get people used to the idea that they MUST say they despise the usg.
10:47 mircea_popescu to get paid.
10:48 mircea_popescu none of this "people agree, rule of law, bla bla" nonsense any more.
10:48 kakobrekla this is all based on nothing.
10:48 mircea_popescu people happen to agree alright, it's just the other way.
10:48 kakobrekla dont worry, you can say its just too much css.
10:49 mircea_popescu kakobrekla you're a nihilist. everything's ultimately based on nothing as fatr as you're concerned, if you're willing to take the time and look.
10:55 chetty <mircea_popescu> it's purely a pr thing. got to get people used to the idea that they MUST say they despise the usg.// just the usg? lots of other places seem equally worthy of it
10:55 mircea_popescu nah, generally speaking.
10:55 mircea_popescu gotta get back to the good old 80s "if you follow the law you're unfuckable, an idiot and get lost"
10:56 mircea_popescu it's after all how the soviets ended.
11:01 mircea_popescu lulz of today : if one googles for bulletproof hosting stuff in the last month, the first 5 results are this dumbass trendmicro "report", and the rest references to it. like : "A new report from TrendLabs -- the research arm of security company Trend Micro -- uncovers the existence of what it calls 'Bulletproof Hosting Services' (BPHSs) which provide"
11:01 mircea_popescu fancy that, trendmicro discovered the hole in the donut!
11:13 asciilifeform <mircea_popescu> obviously c will compile for anything. but not by itself! << my point was that i put a complete kit in there. that will build x86_64 on whatever you like, x86-32, cray, pdp11.
11:13 mircea_popescu o i c
11:17 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: fortunately there is wildlife that lives on usg-free net, whose turds one can follow to find the forest. i speak, of course, of crapware artists and sp4mz0rz
11:17 mircea_popescu of course.
11:17 mircea_popescu but forget the discreet bs.
11:17 mircea_popescu mainstream all the things.
11:17 asciilifeform 100% mainstream in ru
11:17 mircea_popescu myeah.
11:18 mircea_popescu 100% mainstream anywhere outside of "my mother had me with a retard" land.
11:23 asciilifeform in other nyooz, incitatus still synced (along with the other two)
11:24 asciilifeform from a closer look, it appears to have been running into swap earlier
11:24 asciilifeform what is really needed is moar s00p3rn0d3 l1f3styl3!!! nodez
11:24 asciilifeform like dulap
11:25 asciilifeform though, strangely enough, the best-performing (e.g., fewest 'black hole' issues) node in my fleet thus far has been 'zoolag', which is sitting under my desk, on residential fiber
11:26 asciilifeform 50 connections, presently (dulap - 40; incitatus - 32)
11:28 mircea_popescu how long it's been on is the largest factor for that metric.
11:28 asciilifeform not only
11:28 asciilifeform but the 'black hole' effect, also.
11:29 asciilifeform https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fi92w/how_important_are_individual_full_nodes_and_how << check out the philippinos
11:29 assbot How important are individual full nodes, and how much does it benefit the network per individual? : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1E2oyu2 )
11:29 asciilifeform apparently - still in business
11:29 mircea_popescu doh.
11:41 asciilifeform ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/net.cpp#0526 << interestingly, these appear to be dead code. what were they meant for ?
11:41 assbot Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/net.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1IDYpY1 )
11:42 asciilifeform trinque's gcov paint these a very deep red (0 runs)
11:42 asciilifeform and indeed, i see no graph path to them
11:42 asciilifeform speaking of which, anyone ever get solrodar's graph into a readable form ?
11:46 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: mircea_popescu did iirc, via gimp
11:46 ben_vulpes but i never did.
11:47 mircea_popescu yea.
11:47 asciilifeform if it was what i saw, that wasn't readable !
11:47 asciilifeform fucking ball of yarn
11:47 mircea_popescu ...
11:47 mircea_popescu how would i decide that if.
11:48 asciilifeform well i just gave an example. can you tell from that picture whether it is theoretically possible for the 'subscription' routines to be called?
11:48 ben_vulpes readable, renderable...
11:48 trinque asciilifeform: that thing's a bit jacked
11:48 trinque split the results between the build dirs and the ourlibs dir
11:48 * asciilifeform used grep to answer the question, unambiguous 'no'
11:49 trinque I'm going to give that thing a few more shoves today and see if I can get it all in one tree
11:49 asciilifeform trinque: gcov is useful but doesn't prove code to be alive or dead, can only suggest
11:49 asciilifeform (wallet, for instance, would look entirely 'dead' on a gcov run where such was not used)
11:49 ben_vulpes i don't see any usage of anysubscribed at least, asciilifeform
11:49 trinque yep, makes sense
11:50 asciilifeform the place i'm trying to go with this is: dead code ought not be in The Book, except - in the one and only case where it pre-dates gavin et al, it could be shoved into an appendix
11:51 mircea_popescu asciilifeform let's keep it simple. have you loaded the svg in gimp and examined the picture painted.
11:51 asciilifeform link to latest version of this?
11:51 mircea_popescu i don't have one. lesee
11:51 mircea_popescu !s from:mircea gimp
11:51 assbot 8 results for 'from:mircea gimp' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea+gimp
11:52 asciilifeform http://cascadianhacker.com/bitcoin/callgraph ?
11:52 assbot Index of /bitcoin/callgraph/ ... ( http://bit.ly/1IDZBuh )
11:52 mircea_popescu http://cascadianhacker.com/bitcoin/callgraph/bitcoin-dot.svg
11:52 assbot Call graph ... ( http://bit.ly/1IDZFds )
11:53 asciilifeform yeah that was what i saw
11:54 asciilifeform incidentally, it is worthless if flattened into a bitmap
11:54 asciilifeform gotta be viewed in a graphical www browser, so you can search
11:55 trinque http://getspringy.com/demo.html
11:55 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1IDZVZX )
11:55 asciilifeform and, after you do this, aside from the nightmare of intersecting lines and bubbles light-years away from their ~only~ antecedent, etc,
11:55 trinque would be nice to grab a node and shake
11:56 asciilifeform you will see things like: 'CNode :: PushVersion' is connected! to whom?? to 'CNode :: CNode'.
11:56 trinque http://marvl.infotech.monash.edu/webcola/ << also looks neat
11:56 assbot cola.js: Constraint-based Layout in the Browser ... ( http://bit.ly/1IE0141 )
11:56 asciilifeform this conveys ~zero~ useful information. in particular, the fact that 'CNode :: PushVersion' is a deadcode island is no longer visually apparent.
11:56 trinque http://marvl.infotech.monash.edu/webcola/examples/browsemovies.html << in particular
11:56 assbot Incremental exploration of a large graph ... ( http://bit.ly/1IE03c9 )
11:57 asciilifeform the above observation is not a criticism of solrodar's work, but of the catastrophically inadequate existing tooling
11:59 mircea_popescu mkay. well....
11:59 trinque so... what about those JS things
11:59 asciilifeform trinque: the 'springy' thing is quite like the molecular strain sims i've used
12:00 asciilifeform except there is no reason to make it a clicking and dragging game
12:00 trinque yeah, best to just have some layout algo make it readable
12:00 asciilifeform can give the 'atoms' electrostatic-style charge, so they repel, and the bonds - 'strain', so they contract
↖
12:00 trinque clicking collapsed nodes to expand might be helpful
12:00 asciilifeform then simulated-anneal.
12:00 trinque yeah
12:01 asciilifeform at any rate, i originally wanted this as a wall poster
12:01 asciilifeform so it would have to be very clean to justify losing search
12:01 trinque http://marvl.infotech.monash.edu/webcola/examples/dotpowergraph.html
12:01 assbot Grid Layout ... ( http://bit.ly/1HiecpW )
12:01 trinque that helps my eyes a bit
12:01 ben_vulpes ;;later tell phf http://paste.lisp.org/display/152828#1 << do forgive my ignorance, but what am i missing about converting the "command" into a string? (Adlai, asciilifeform, your eyes'd be appreciated too)
↖
12:01 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HieixP )
12:01 gribble The operation succeeded.
12:01 trinque would need a legend or bigger boxes
12:01 asciilifeform ew
12:02 asciilifeform 'help the mouse find the cheese'
12:02 asciilifeform no thx
12:02 trinque lol
12:03 asciilifeform the most critical thing re: the graph is probably to make it reflect ~only function calls~ rather than class membership
↖
12:03 asciilifeform the latter is ~entirely irrelevant~ to a call graph!
12:04 punkman http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fggjj/someone_has_broadcast_a_transaction_with_20000/
12:04 assbot Someone has broadcast a transaction with 20,000 inputs! : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1IE0PG5 )
12:08 asciilifeform why the fuck are 0-valued outputs spendable !?
12:08 asciilifeform (or even valid in a block)
12:10 asciilifeform https://www.f2pool.com/pushtx << interesting
12:10 punkman plenty of pages like that
12:11 punkman https://bitbucket.org/pankkake/pushtx
12:11 assbot pankkake / pushtx — Bitbucket ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hig6XM )
12:11 asciilifeform punkman: the linked page is connected to a live pool. and demands password (presumably subscriptions are sold?)
12:12 asciilifeform reminiscent of what mircea_popescu suggested, but with moar duct tape and chicken wire
12:13 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1222073 << this is seriously, deeply 'un-lispy' code. it explicitly reads fields!!! what you oughta do is define the 'message' structure in the most minimal way you can think of, and then write a routine that snarfs any structure defined that way, whatever it may be.
12:13 assbot Logged on 02-08-2015 16:01:52; ben_vulpes: ;;later tell phf http://paste.lisp.org/display/152828#1 << do forgive my ignorance, but what am i missing about converting the "command" into a string? (Adlai, asciilifeform, your eyes'd be appreciated too)
12:14 ben_vulpes well how'd i know without putting myself up for the cane
12:14 asciilifeform then you will have a jewel in your toolbox that you can use 20 years from now
12:14 asciilifeform as it is, you have... perl.
12:15 asciilifeform http://www.cliki.net/binary-types << most famous example
12:15 assbot CLiki: Binary-types ... ( http://bit.ly/1IE26g9 )
12:15 ben_vulpes this has come up before, and i had forgotten.
12:15 asciilifeform https://github.com/frodef/binary-types << mirror
12:15 assbot frodef/binary-types · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1IE28om )
12:16 asciilifeform and yes, it seems like 50x more work, at first glance
12:16 asciilifeform because... it is.
12:16 asciilifeform but the whole point of a computer is that you do the 50, so you don't have to do the 50,000 over next 20 years.
12:17 asciilifeform re: binary-types, see esp. the mirror link, for example
12:17 asciilifeform it has definition of 'elf' (unix executable) format parser
12:17 ben_vulpes am reading, yes
12:19 trinque hm yeah, that's much cooler; it's a lot like you'd describe a grammar for a parser generator
12:19 trinque well fuck, it is that
12:19 trinque lol
12:19 * trinque finds coffee
12:21 ben_vulpes (but ascii - i /can/ mutate in place, therefore i /must/!)
12:22 asciilifeform wai wat
12:22 ben_vulpes just a joke
12:22 ben_vulpes "we can, therefore we must"
12:22 asciilifeform http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3236870273259433@naggum.net.html << obligatory
12:22 assbot Re: two questions about strings - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1IE2ZW8 )
12:23 asciilifeform (mainly last paragraph)
12:24 asciilifeform ;;isup trilema.com
12:24 gribble trilema.com is down
12:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu ^
12:24 mircea_popescu aha.
12:25 mircea_popescu shoulda read it yesterday, what is this.
12:25 mircea_popescu you read when you feel like ?!?!?!
12:25 asciilifeform prolly more of the usual
12:25 punkman every ;;isup trilema.com feeds the troll
12:26 asciilifeform the troll lives on sunshine
12:26 asciilifeform and big fat duffels of benjie from usg
12:26 mircea_popescu lol
12:26 mircea_popescu srsly, there;s nothing new there as opposed to yest.
12:27 trinque "Common Lisp is a big-city language. Spit out the hayseed, pronounce "shit" with one syllable and "shotgun" with two." << wahahaha
12:27 asciilifeform except that i linked to mircea_popescu's pgp key in a post
12:27 asciilifeform and clicked (by mistake) just now, noticed that no one can see it.
12:27 trinque people who don't like "mean" people have no appreciation for comedy
12:27 mircea_popescu aha.
12:27 mircea_popescu well, it exists as a signed thing in the hands of the conference participants.
12:28 asciilifeform aha.
12:28 punkman how do you pronounce shotgun with more/less syllables than two?
12:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i wrote a short post last night, linking to an archive.today of the phuctored list, and exhorting the folks whose names appear therein to write
12:28 asciilifeform (doubt it will have any effect. perhaps ought to consider spamming them?)
12:29 mircea_popescu fuck em, why would you care/bother ?
12:29 scoopbot_revived Doing "God's Work" http://www.contravex.com/2015/08/02/doing-gods-work/
12:29 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: would like to find what they have in common ?
12:29 mircea_popescu you're coming from tyhis weird place where we're all possessed of functioning brains here on this great internet and stuff. wtf.
12:29 asciilifeform what, ~nobody on the list~ has brain ?
12:29 asciilifeform not one ?
12:29 mircea_popescu they have in common being either dumb per se or else i nthe crosshairs of the manacling-with-dumb cannon.
↖
12:30 mircea_popescu neither class wants to talk to you about it, for different reasons.
12:30 asciilifeform i suppose now that their names have been 'googleable' for months, and still no reaction - this conclusion is nearly inescapable
12:30 mircea_popescu something like that.
12:30 punkman asciilifeform: did you email all of the already? I remember some mention of emails
12:30 mircea_popescu you got one schmuck exercising his right to be idiotic is the sumall.
12:31 asciilifeform punkman: nope. and it would almost certainly vanish in their spam filter, also.
12:31 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: yeah i recall. was it anvin? iirc
12:31 mircea_popescu some anon.
12:31 asciilifeform ah that one
12:31 mircea_popescu because hey, that's the way to do things.
12:31 asciilifeform that one didn't even sign his name!
12:31 mircea_popescu i'll take it a notch further : none of them had anything to sign. ever.
12:32 mircea_popescu this includes the pgp mailing list.
12:32 asciilifeform 'go to the place - where? no one knows, and bring me back that - which? no one knows' (tm)
12:32 mircea_popescu crazy as it may sound.
12:32 asciilifeform wai wut
12:33 asciilifeform as in, nothing ever changed from their signature being on it or not ?
12:33 mircea_popescu not.a.single.entry.on.your.list.ever.hand.any.legitimate.use.for.encryption.
12:33 asciilifeform well no shit.
12:33 mircea_popescu the impersonated ones, i mean.
12:33 mircea_popescu they just have no business here.
12:33 asciilifeform idk, the 'update signing key' people
12:33 asciilifeform had at least in their own planet, a use
12:33 mircea_popescu it's a case of, 12 yo girly playing a game she doesn't understand with toys that aren't really toys. except online and with boys.
12:33 asciilifeform and some of the maths students may have had something or other to say to someone or other
12:34 mircea_popescu heh.
12:34 asciilifeform and the folks releasing code (anvin? a few others?) did sign it
12:34 mircea_popescu i bet you, dollars to donuts, that they signed it for "wouldn';t it be cool if" reasons. an d the thing doesn't actually work / is not full lengthj /.trivially defeated on some op sec hole or other.
12:34 asciilifeform what i mean to say is, the folks selected for this special delicacy treat, were selected presumably for reasons ?
12:35 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: iirc linus checks sigs
12:35 asciilifeform (of anvin et all)
12:35 * mircea_popescu suddenly realised, sometimes last night, that the deep reason nothing works is simply that - all of it was made on a lark.
12:35 mircea_popescu not for serious.
12:35 asciilifeform but how often? between him and the gods. i wouldn't know
12:35 mircea_popescu orly ? i thought he just dumps code someone emailed him intop the kernel.
12:36 asciilifeform l0l
12:36 mircea_popescu for srs.
12:36 asciilifeform (if he did, by all rights 2015 ought to have happened in 2005, or 1995... ?)
12:37 mircea_popescu i vaguely recall some incident where precisely this happened.
12:37 mircea_popescu i suppose i should stfu if i can't link it.
12:37 * asciilifeform also recalls
12:37 asciilifeform but it may have involved freebsd
12:37 mircea_popescu anyway : there's this entire pretend culture, and it goes very deep. dunno how to properly illustrate it in its meta splendor.
12:38 asciilifeform http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/12/15/openbsd_backdoor_claim << rumour
12:38 assbot FBI 'planted backdoor' in OpenBSD • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1HilwSq )
12:38 mircea_popescu but i'm nothing oif not persistent, so lemme try.
12:38 asciilifeform and the 'pretend culture' at least in as far as it concerns public key crypto, was a very deliberate plank of the 'cypherpunk' folks - 'let's use crypto for every piece of shit, to defeat traffic analysis'
12:38 mircea_popescu case A : kid sees girl in bar. waits for moment when no-one's looking around 3am, kloinks her in the head with bottle, drags her dark alley outside, shreds her clothes and her virginity.
12:39 mircea_popescu case B : kid sees girl in bar, works up his courage until 3am, eventually approaches her and explains that he's into kinky stuff. which works out, because she always dreamed about being raped, so they meet in dark alley and have some great sex.
12:40 mircea_popescu and i posit that the entire fucking thing, "from the ground up", is B. all of it.
12:40 mircea_popescu "hey, woiuldn't it be cool if you could like... encrypt shit ?" "why ?" "so you cxould be like... a secre agent!"
12:40 mircea_popescu then they went about roleplaying their super-secret-agent kink for a while
12:40 mircea_popescu and then forgot about it.
12:41 mircea_popescu guitar hero for a different generation.
12:42 trinque sounds like the problem with letting most people define themselves on their own
12:42 mircea_popescu possibly the last time anyone did anything for serious with computers was in tyhe 80s.
12:42 trinque you're going to get fake representations out of most, if it cuts it with the people looking at them
12:42 mircea_popescu since then, everyone's just been trying to salvage utility out of the kids' roleplaying
12:42 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: industry exists
12:42 trinque I was fumbling for that idea the other day re: internal representations of identity
12:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform does it.
12:42 asciilifeform i know, this sound like 'martians live among us'
12:43 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: recall that pdp emulator fella ?
↖
12:43 asciilifeform somebody's buying that.
12:43 asciilifeform folks with beards as long as my arm.
12:43 mircea_popescu aha. exactly.
12:43 mircea_popescu those are hobbists not industrialists.
12:43 asciilifeform on whom the remnants of 'the west' stand, like on elephants on turtles.
12:43 asciilifeform not hobbyists. those use 'open source' emu
12:43 asciilifeform this one is intended for industrial plant
12:43 asciilifeform which still runs, yes, on pdp
12:44 mircea_popescu as someone's hobby.
12:44 asciilifeform (as do a great many american .mil systems, of the kind which still work)
12:44 mircea_popescu the "industry", such as it is, is fucking google, holding hackathons
12:44 asciilifeform no.
12:44 mircea_popescu trying to feed themselves out of used condoms left behind in dark alleys
12:45 asciilifeform the industry, in actuality, is grey beards maintaining code written in 1973, which keeps the water mains pressurized and the lights on.
12:45 asciilifeform and the condom injection molds going
12:45 asciilifeform etc
12:45 mircea_popescu aha. what's your definition of "industry" ?
12:45 asciilifeform easy: the ox
12:45 asciilifeform not the flies on his horns.
12:45 mircea_popescu because i suspect you go by ops whereas i go by financials./
12:45 mircea_popescu yea. okay.
12:46 asciilifeform if you go by financials, then the 'industry' is the u.s. fed.
12:46 mircea_popescu pretty much.
12:46 asciilifeform which prints the payola
12:46 asciilifeform and then gives it out to demented bums
12:46 mircea_popescu alrighty then. that was my sad storyt for today.
12:46 shinohai http://www.bbspot.com/News/2006/08/paris-hilton-tinkerbell-linux.html
12:46 assbot BBspot - Paris Hilton Releases Tinkerbell Linux ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hinhz7 )
12:46 mircea_popescu do not expect a girl with a collar is actually a slave - she probably thought it looks good for her facebook ; do not expect someone with a pgp key is a lord - they probably were just trying to impress someone.
12:47 asciilifeform Slutware Linux << win
12:48 asciilifeform iirc the 'cypherpunk' folks thought of themselves as anonymous soldiers trying to pave the way for 'lords' to use key without insta-flagging
12:48 shinohai LOL @ slutware
12:48 shinohai I should push a slackware release
12:49 trinque is that poor guy still maintaining it?
12:50 kakobrekla heh, re pdp, apparently http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/
↖
12:51 assbot Nuke plants to rely on PDP-11 code UNTIL 2050! • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1Hiobf3 )
12:51 kakobrekla i guess end of world is 2051
12:52 trinque jurov: how hard is it to dump maildir mail files from mailman?
12:52 trinque I wrote a python script last night that turds together maildir mail from the txt dumps, but it's a hack at best
12:53 trinque at least there are sigs; I don't really care about having identical mail headers to the originals
12:58 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6580 @ 0.00055022 = 3.6204 BTC [+]
13:00 asciilifeform i will add, btw, that yes, i know that 'code from 1973' is not 'maintained' in the modern idiot bottomless-barrel-of-bug sense
13:00 asciilifeform instead, it is, e.g., transplanted to a 486 using the emulator mentioned earlier, handwritten by a fella with prolly a metre-long beard
13:00 asciilifeform because if it were not - the water stops coming out of the tap
13:01 asciilifeform kakobrekla: it was officially proclaimed, at one point, that the sole remaining american land-based nuke delivery vehicle, 'minuteman', is 100% vax-powered
13:02 asciilifeform (in the rocket, a miniaturized variant; on land - the real thing)
13:03 asciilifeform 'PDP-11 assembler coders are hard to find' << what a pile of shit
13:03 * asciilifeform raises hand
13:03 asciilifeform but no, the unspoken qualification is the two-metre-long beard
13:03 asciilifeform and yes, i can understand why.
13:05 asciilifeform the thing that ~must~ be understood is that the ancient iron is maintained entirely, wholly, as a shield against microshitification
13:05 asciilifeform when a pc runs reactor - yes, that is the end.
13:05 asciilifeform yes, let's have winblowz, poettering, drepper, chinese capacitors, in reactor room.
13:05 asciilifeform it'll be grand.
13:06 jurov yes they do
13:06 asciilifeform just let me know the day before, so i can catch the last plane out.
13:06 kakobrekla out to where ?!
13:06 jurov in these parts most reactors reportedly run on win2k
13:06 asciilifeform 'away from here'
13:07 kakobrekla no such place.
13:07 asciilifeform http://www.kafka.org/index.php?aid=172 << obligatory
13:07 assbot The Kafka Project | English | My Destination (transl. Alex Flores) ... ( http://bit.ly/1HiriDN )
13:07 kakobrekla everywhere i go, im here.
13:09 jurov trinque it's easy, if you're subscribed you can publish it yourself
13:10 jurov i will, too. eventually.
13:16 trinque jurov: I missed a bunch of messages due to that tls thing, so I'm trying to grab all those
13:22 jurov http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/btc-dev.mbox.xz this one is from july 3
13:22 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HiuFKK )
13:22 trinque cool! thanks!
13:22 trinque that actually covers everything I needed, I think
13:26 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i guess that's a point yea.
13:35 mircea_popescu <jurov> in these parts most reactors reportedly run on win2k << why not me while at it.
13:40 jurov me is not properly certified
13:41 jurov can't even imagine what noise would austrians do if a reactor nearby would be allowed to run on something homebrew
13:42 jurov everything had to be modernized by siemens & co..
13:43 kakobrekla >I cooked up a multi-user general ledger system based on this hardware in '79. My client was a rural Iowa accountant who (what a prophet!) was afraid of hacks, so he insisted it NOT be compatible with anything else on the planet. So, though NorthStar DOS was way ahead of it's time, I had to ditch it. I burned my own boot EPROMs, wrote the whole thing using Ashley's assembler. You just can't do that anymore.
13:43 kakobrekla hehe
13:43 kakobrekla same problem in 79
13:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5960 @ 0.00052554 = 3.1322 BTC [-] {2}
~ 25 minutes ~
14:19 mircea_popescu in other news, https://i.imgur.com/TCjVzuQ.jpg
↖
14:19 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1MFXj0g )
14:23 shinohai LOL
~ 26 minutes ~
14:50 shinohai LOL BingoBoingo haz to update his article: http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/02/world/cecil-the-lion-brother-jericho-alive/
14:50 assbot Cecil the lion's brother Jericho is alive - CNN.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1HiMDgk )
14:53 punkman "Reportedly, Koko enjoys seeing human nipples and will request her female caregivers to show them to her on occasion. This has resulted in sexual harassment lawsuits by caregivers who have felt pressured by Patterson to show their nipples to Koko against their will. Attorney Jody Weiner, who previously represented KoKo in licensing agreements, writes that he should have recognized warning signs of a sex scandal. "
14:56 BingoBoingo shinohai: Nope. Jericho it turns out is not actually Cecil's brother. CNN is just listening to any crank who calls in.
14:57 shinohai I had hoped you could churn out another story based on that xD
~ 15 minutes ~
15:12 assbot [HAVELOCK] [BTR] 2949 @ 0.001135 = 3.3471 BTC [+]
15:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11565 @ 0.00052268 = 6.0448 BTC [-]
15:23 mod6 <asciilifeform> interestingly, incitatus synced and stayed synced today << ahh ok, thanks for the heads up
15:26 shinohai I m syncing the dark side's wallet, keeps crashing with CDB: Error -30974, can't open database
~ 29 minutes ~
15:56 mircea_popescu !up eric
15:56 mircea_popescu !up livegnik
15:56 mircea_popescu !up roasbeef
15:58 mircea_popescu asciilifeform> can give the 'atoms' electrostatic-style charge, so they repel, and the bonds - 'strain', so they contract << this is actually a pretty great idea. and then run iterations over the thing until stable.
15:59 mircea_popescu asciilifeform> so it would have to be very clean to justify losing search << technically speaking, needing "search" is a symptom that you've not yet learned it.
↖
15:59 mircea_popescu ie, fit it in head.
16:00 decimation 17:42 <+jurov> everything had to be modernized by siemens & co.. < jurov, but why does 'modernize' mean 'run on winblows 2k?'
16:01 decimation where's the german alternative to microsoft?
16:01 jurov ask siemens
16:02 mircea_popescu siemens is "german" in the sense tsipras is "greek" and so on. absolutely nothing to do.
↖ ↖
16:02 decimation agilent - runs spectrum analyzers on winblows. rohde & schwarz - same
16:03 decimation it's not like they sell enough of them for 'people to come to expect'
16:04 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1222307 << no shit. and if i'd learned it, wouldn't need the diagram.
16:04 assbot Logged on 02-08-2015 19:59:28; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> so it would have to be very clean to justify losing search << technically speaking, needing "search" is a symptom that you've not yet learned it.
16:05 mircea_popescu anyway, re punkman's reddit link - the tards miss the fruit and focus on the pit of that thing, as usual.
16:06 mircea_popescu <asciilifeform> (or even valid in a block) << they are not valid. they are spendable for reasons that have to do with what the protocol says, ie, unintentionally.
16:06 asciilifeform well sure
16:07 jurov decimation: perhaps you missed how my info how gigawatts of steam turbines are simulated and projected ... in excel
16:08 jurov (i mean, when they are installed, hopefully not when they are built. but not sure on that, either)
16:08 mircea_popescu or my info as to how the entire fucking house of cards came down chiefly bewcause some idiots were doing copula calculations
16:08 mircea_popescu also in excel
16:08 mircea_popescu (gauss copula, look into that sometime. if you want "pseudoscience that burned the world", global warming's nothing, witch hunts are nothing, this thing ruioned trillions)
16:09 asciilifeform jurov: the thing is, nothing is built from the ground up (except for the circus mentioned earlier just now by mircea_popescu) with 'excel'. the infrastructure is running on fumes
16:09 asciilifeform and i'd bet good money that there is, somewhere deep inside that win2k reactor, a real computer
16:09 asciilifeform largely autonomous from the shitputer
16:09 asciilifeform (which in turn is mostly a display of gui dials and gauges)
16:10 jurov like in iran?
16:10 asciilifeform jurov is almost certainly thinking of the refinery
16:10 asciilifeform where yes, winblowz
16:10 asciilifeform this is because the poor saps were stuck buying new
16:10 asciilifeform can't get the pdp new.
16:11 asciilifeform buy new, get 'siemens', run moar winblowz.
16:11 jurov um..er.. how is half of europe gonna get a whiff of pdp?
16:11 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1222312 << aha, international komy000nity!!!
16:11 assbot Logged on 02-08-2015 20:02:14; mircea_popescu: siemens is "german" in the sense tsipras is "greek" and so on. absolutely nothing to do.
16:11 asciilifeform jurov: ask the folks with the intact sov reactors
16:11 scoopbot_revived Line betting on BitBet, July 2015 http://thewhet.net/2015/line-betting-on-bitbet-july-2015/
16:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform your idea of nuke plants is more akin to a UP's big boy control hatch. this is not how they work, whole shit's run in java these days. for that matter - remember the recent airbus which had all 4 engines stop because counter smash issues ?
16:12 jurov ^
16:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 1) nothing realtime-reactive runs in java 2) the counter overflows after what was it, 8 months of continuous engine time ????
16:12 mircea_popescu i tell you. there are no professionals left. all children posing for the mirror.
16:12 mircea_popescu a world of play-pretend like they're adults and doing things
16:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform if i recall, maxint / 100 it was.
16:13 jurov and i strongly suspect the computers of yore aren't what alf imagines, either. have them eat a text with arbitrary linelengths and see
16:13 mircea_popescu ;;calc 8 *30 * 24 * 3600 * 100
16:13 gribble 2073600000
16:13 mircea_popescu seems about right
16:13 decimation http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-05-2015#1118863 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-05-2015#1118867
16:13 assbot Logged on 03-05-2015 03:39:28; decimation: asciilifeform: I have a friend who is an old graybeard EE, been working on actual circuitry since the 80's
16:13 assbot Logged on 03-05-2015 03:40:09; decimation: he said recently a sea change has come with kids coming out of school; they want to specify massive cpu, memory for very simple micro-controllers so they can run java
16:13 asciilifeform jurov: go feed it the text
16:13 hanbot deedbot- http://thewhet.net/han/mpifpc4_072015.txt.asc
16:13 deedbot- accepted: 1
16:13 mircea_popescu jurov or with locales :D
16:14 asciilifeform but jurov isn't wrong, per se, there probably ~is~ a reactor somewhere handled by four java boxes trying to cover for each other's garbagecollector pauses
16:14 mircea_popescu a nuclear reactor is a kind of flywheel
16:14 mircea_popescu you got plenty of time.
16:14 asciilifeform and you can tell from a distance when a sector of civilization has been consumed by the cancer
16:14 chetty feed the computer anything, with front panel switches
16:14 asciilifeform !s flashlight crash
16:14 assbot 4 results for 'flashlight crash' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=flashlight+crash
16:14 jurov all out email and else woes are due to text originally defined as "interspersed by cr in shorter intervals than any buffer wherever gets() is used"
16:15 jurov all else is binary by definition
16:15 asciilifeform jurov: don't confuse the retardation of unix&descendants for 'the real computer'
16:15 mircea_popescu i suspect this is actually the correct definition of "text" for computing.
16:15 decimation you guys realise we are gonna have to respecify email too right?
16:15 asciilifeform 'the real computer' was and is programmed in asm ab initio - yes, from entirely empty space; for every task.
16:15 mircea_popescu decimation how about respecifying email as null.
16:15 jurov asciilifeform: and your pdp example is?
16:15 asciilifeform ab initio.
16:16 decimation mircea_popescu: sounds good to me. file transfer a .txt
16:16 asciilifeform respecifying email as null << win
16:16 mircea_popescu imagine if every so often i had to click here to see if there's new lines
16:16 mircea_popescu then click on the lines indioviduallky
16:16 mircea_popescu FUCKING HELL WHO DID THIS
16:16 decimation actually you could argue that 'email' as a concept is 'let's pretend we are working at the post office'
16:16 mircea_popescu ^
16:16 decimation not 'let's build a system for reliably transmitting information'
16:16 mircea_popescu it makes as much sense as drawing horses on a car.
16:17 mircea_popescu it had its importance selling technology to the retards.
16:17 mircea_popescu but other than that, it's as useful as "wysiwyg" or "point and click" or "just works!"
16:17 mircea_popescu nonsensical gimmicks of the ilk of "stop fucking your sister or else santa won't bringf you presents" and "eat your veggies so you can overpower your sister and stick it in her"
16:18 asciilifeform l0l
16:19 decimation much of it stems from "need to hustle to make money, use what's on the shelf and make it fit"
16:19 decimation I was watching a 'banking' show on the BBC the other day. it featured a young afghan who managed to make it from goat-fuck-stan to the uk welfare state
16:21 decimation he complained that in afghanistan, everything is free - but people are poor and live in mud huts. they envy the english for their warm houses &etc. but now he works 12 hour days to try to make rent, pay bills - and never has time to enjoy his warm house
16:21 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: see also the idiocy of 'skeumorphism'
16:21 decimation because nothing is free
16:21 asciilifeform decimation: this and precisely this, is why i laugh at people who discuss compensation in terms of money
16:22 decimation yeah, it would be interesting for someone to interview people exactly like this: grew up orc, came to 'first world'
16:22 asciilifeform ~i don't give a fuck~ what you're paid, how much of it do you get to ~keep~, and how much time do you get to sit in the warm house and drink tea and not think of work
16:23 decimation later in the episode he managed to somehow get an offer from the uk govt - he could buy his flat for 20k pounds
16:23 asciilifeform very few orcs have the brains to even consider this formula
16:23 decimation but the minimum loan from the bank is 25k
16:23 decimation he was like 'what am I gonna do with an extra 9k and I have to pay interest!"
16:24 decimation the rest of the show featured idiots with 25k credit card balances trying 'refinance'
16:24 asciilifeform l0l
16:24 asciilifeform must have been filmed a while ago, these figures would probably have an extra trailing zero today
16:24 asciilifeform at least where i live.
16:24 decimation http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b061xf9j/the-bank-a-matter-of-life-and-debt-3-lending < can watch here if you manage to obtain uk ip
16:24 assbot BBC iPlayer - The Bank: A Matter of Life and Debt - 3. Lending ... ( http://bit.ly/1M5qb2h )
16:25 asciilifeform back to the earlier observation, the attachment orcs have to the myth of 'the west' is a truly religious affair
16:25 decimation yeah you could tell the guy was disappointed with his situation
16:26 asciilifeform not even being planted nose-first into the genuine pile of shit, has any curative effect
16:26 asciilifeform he will probably try to make his way 'moar west'
16:26 decimation http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/07/09/illegal-immigrants-exploit-channel-tunnel-closure/ < for example here
16:26 assbot Illegal Immigrants Exploit Channel Tunnel Closure - Breitbart ... ( http://bit.ly/1M5qfz5 )
16:26 asciilifeform to, say, canada, or usa.
16:26 asciilifeform where he can work 14 hour days for a flat with six of his kind
16:27 asciilifeform (or get into the jail, where, approximately, same)
16:27 decimation somehow people from Eritrea are convinced that if they only make it to the uk they can supports their entire families!
16:27 decimation not realizing the complete chumpatron they are entering
16:27 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=28-07-2015#1214974 << see also
16:27 assbot Logged on 28-07-2015 04:36:46; asciilifeform: 'hot', in this case, being the world of the coolie, and 'cold' being the world he aspires to enter (or at least send his children to, oxbridge and harvaprinceyaleton)
16:28 decimation usa was kinda like this in the 1800's
16:29 jurov yet no one goes back to afganistan
16:29 decimation east coast cities swelled with immigrants trying to get some monies
16:29 decimation but at least at that time they could buy a cheap farm in kansas
16:29 decimation jurov: good point
16:29 asciilifeform jurov: warm house is addictive. or whole 'west' circus would voluntarily rebuild afganistan at home
16:29 mircea_popescu decimation> yeah, it would be interesting for someone to interview people exactly like this: grew up orc, came to 'first world' << ie, half of romania under 50yo.
16:29 asciilifeform (they are anyway, but slowly)
16:29 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16425 @ 0.00052268 = 8.585 BTC [-]
16:29 mircea_popescu prolly 1/4 of russia or so, cause they're orc-er.
16:30 mircea_popescu and re the myth of the west, there was that trilema article linked from a recent one, "florida and other places".
16:30 mircea_popescu tis a sad thing.
16:30 asciilifeform jurov: it is the very meaning of the word 'addiction' as commonly used. (no one speaks of being 'addicted' to air, sunlight, etc)
16:31 mircea_popescu jurov actually plenty of people do go back to afghanistan.
16:31 asciilifeform if you want things that are ultimately doing you in in double time, and aren't even particularly fun - that is it
16:31 mircea_popescu heck, 50% of the 1st generation immigrants return home with the loot, marry and live there.
16:31 mircea_popescu the retards - stay.
16:31 mircea_popescu the rest just loot and leave.
16:31 asciilifeform when there is what to loot..
16:31 mircea_popescu which is ~why~ the libertard open border stuff doesn't work.
16:32 mircea_popescu asciilifeform for as long as china takes the coupons...
16:32 asciilifeform (in more recent times, the 'loot' is in the form of bait, handed out monthly at welfare office)
16:32 decimation it stands a prayer of working if someone gets nothing for 'just showing up'
16:32 mircea_popescu no, it does not.
16:32 decimation but that implies nobody gets paid just to exist
16:32 mircea_popescu because the people you want don't want you, and the people you want you nobody wants.
16:33 decimation yeah, there's some raw human truth there
16:33 mircea_popescu myeah.
16:33 decimation http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/28/us-finland-immigration-idUSKCN0Q22JJ20150728 < finland is going through this now
16:33 assbot Thousands rally in Finland against lawmaker's anti-immigration remark| Reuters ... ( http://bit.ly/1M5qxG5 )
16:33 mircea_popescu there hasn't yet in the history of mankind been a wealth marriage that was happy. and "free immigraton" is notexceptional just because large.
16:33 asciilifeform decimation: they envy sweden its great mosques
16:34 decimation some politicians suggesting that maybe it's not good to import africa wholesale in one generation isn't such a great idea
16:34 trinque against racism lol
16:34 decimation of course they are hateful racists for suggesting it
16:34 mircea_popescu finnish chicks want the cock, what.
16:34 mircea_popescu i can see it.
16:34 mircea_popescu what';d you have them to, wait on rpietilla ?
16:34 asciilifeform l0l!
16:34 jurov is there any successful example of resisting immigration?
16:34 asciilifeform Ze Supernoud Lifestyle
16:35 asciilifeform jurov: japan.
16:35 asciilifeform resists, to the bitter end.
16:35 asciilifeform like real men.
16:35 decimation ^ true
16:35 decimation except they are not reproducing
↖
16:35 asciilifeform wake me up when they reach 1900 level and still drop
16:35 mircea_popescu there's no resisting immigration. vienna fell. byzantium fell.
16:35 trinque that's the economic side's fault
16:35 asciilifeform what do we need the extra people post-1900 for anyway
16:35 decimation where's that rammstein 'amerika' song
16:36 asciilifeform ^
16:36 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1215885
16:36 assbot Logged on 29-07-2015 02:37:56; shinohai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxroiTRg7Tg
16:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'there is no resisting ants and flies, giraffe fell, elephant fell'
16:37 mircea_popescu quite so.
16:37 asciilifeform but not from flies.
16:37 mircea_popescu of course not.
16:37 mircea_popescu the idea that immigration is the problem is braindamage of the level of thinking the maggots made the corpse.
16:37 mircea_popescu somehow the immigrants weren't the problem back when azns were washing gold miner's shirts for a penny
16:37 mircea_popescu and the irish fought the blacks for who's gonna polish knob tonight
16:37 asciilifeform the only shred of logic in there is that the maggots sometimes do feast on living flesh
16:38 mircea_popescu never.
16:38 mircea_popescu in fact, fly maggots used to clean wounds.
16:38 mircea_popescu they like live flesh about as much as you like birdshit.
16:38 asciilifeform yes. and removed when they start to eat the living flesh
16:38 mircea_popescu "the humans sometimes feast on the bird shit". i guess ?
16:38 asciilifeform (they will, from lack of what else, eventually)
16:38 decimation http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/19/dirt-poor-haitians-eat-mu_n_168339.html
16:38 assbot Dirt Poor Haitians Eat Mud Cookies To Survive ... ( http://bit.ly/1M5qGJx )
16:39 asciilifeform decimation: i suppose they haven't any accordions to boil
16:39 mircea_popescu is this more jenkem journalism from the jenkem journals ?
16:39 decimation lol yeah where's jenkem
16:39 mircea_popescu huffpo huffed it.
16:39 mircea_popescu hence huffpopo.
16:39 decimation no look it's in real media too http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2008/01/31/haitians_trick_empty_bellies_with_dirt_cookies/
16:39 assbot Haitians trick empty bellies with dirt cookies - The Boston Globe ... ( http://bit.ly/1M5qKZK )
16:39 asciilifeform actually, iirc washpost huffed it
16:39 asciilifeform in the '90s
16:40 asciilifeform 'dirt cookie' was a favourite in chinese cultural revolution
16:40 asciilifeform (there is ~some~ nutritious matter in the earth)
16:41 mircea_popescu and vitamins!
16:41 mircea_popescu thing is - there's more nutritious matter in shit.
16:41 mircea_popescu especially if a rich dude shat it.
16:41 mircea_popescu (for the obvious reason - what do you think earth is after all. microorganism digested shit)
16:41 decimation re:immigrants -> it seems to me that there is a difference between "we have empty land that someone could show up and till" and "one more derp could survive on the scraps here"
16:42 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: usually in china they put it through a pig first. but yes.
16:42 mircea_popescu decimation the difference is whether you run pinkerton or welfare.
16:42 decimation https://suite.io/vic-sanborn/3des2zr
16:42 assbot Night-Soil Men, the Human Waste Collectors of Georgian London ... ( http://bit.ly/1M5qXvX )
16:42 asciilifeform ^ was big business esp. in the brief time when piss was boiled for nitrate
16:43 mircea_popescu most of classical london consisted of a majority of "recyclers".
16:43 mircea_popescu and a minority of tradesmen, moving goods on an abstract mercator map
16:43 asciilifeform world's biggest unsurprise. of what is there most in a city? shit
16:43 mircea_popescu well, these days it's "shitheads"
16:43 decimation now we are too rich to care, apparently, just dig up more fossilized shit
16:44 asciilifeform obligatory >> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2014#552444
16:44 assbot Logged on 09-03-2014 01:03:00; asciilifeform: 'Industry is the only true source of wealth, and there was no industry in Rome. By day the Ostia road was crowded with carts and muleteers, carrying to the great city the silks and spices of the East, the marble of Asia Minor, the timber of the Atlas, the grain of Africa and Egypt; and the carts brought nothing out but loads of dung. That was their return cargo. London turns dirt into gold. Rome turne
16:47 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo "as was the case with this one." << link missing ?
16:48 mircea_popescu "the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia authorized a search warrant" << for the record, this is not how it works. a judge authorises it, and im nary too enchanted by this tendency of individuals to hide behind imaginary shields.
16:55 decimation asciilifeform: was thinking about that 'pcb card' problem. what if you terminated each trace into its own tank circuit, and then 'probed' the circuit with a vna?
16:56 decimation each tank would resonate at a particular frequency, or not, if trace is not blown. could terminate into bnc
16:57 mircea_popescu if you're going to do this why not measure inductance/harmonics/etc.
16:57 mircea_popescu end up with a weird sort of ADC
16:58 decimation yeah that's what I'm suggesting (complex impedance - part of which is inductance)
16:59 decimation if one is clever, one could make the tank circuit out of pure pcb trace, making it cheaper. 'crosstalk' could be a problem though
16:59 jurov inb4 "multilevel ROM" by placing resistors
17:00 mircea_popescu ya lol
17:00 decimation yeah but placing/removing components is a pain and expensive
17:00 mircea_popescu what would be really great would be if your thing could somehow be made out of glass
17:00 mircea_popescu you buy 6x6 inch panbes of glass and crash them
↖
17:01 mircea_popescu thatr's your secret key
17:01 decimation heh
17:01 decimation the breakage geometry you mean?
17:01 mircea_popescu you plug the thing in whatever.
17:01 mircea_popescu and measure its remaining connections
17:01 decimation ah I see what you mean.
17:01 mircea_popescu much better than a pcb, if can be had.
17:02 asciilifeform decimation: crosstalk and rf
17:02 mircea_popescu so you know... some people generate their keys at the firing range. some people have a designated bat. some people make a new key after each domestic argument/divorce
17:02 decimation asciilifeform: sure, but those could be managed
17:03 asciilifeform decimation: look into why analogue computer went away.
17:03 decimation I get it, but I just wanna store some values, not compute derivatives
17:03 asciilifeform the 'crushed glass secret key' was picked up by academitards as 'physically unclonable function'
17:04 asciilifeform but it doesn't do any good unless there are 2 of'em (at minimum)
17:04 asciilifeform (goes without saying that it is only good for symmetric crypto)
17:04 asciilifeform break a glass rod.
17:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform just an exotic way to rng, is in the end what he was trying to build
17:04 mircea_popescu "take a pcb and scratch it"
17:04 asciilifeform then sure
17:04 mircea_popescu necessarily goes to "crush glass pane"
17:04 asciilifeform just don't be surprised when it stops working when it is wet/cold/hot in the room
17:04 asciilifeform or if different room
17:04 mircea_popescu yawell.
17:05 asciilifeform (see mircea_popescu's old 'dragonfly' article based on my conf-II chat)
17:05 asciilifeform very often, folks forget just how much analogue strange there is in the world, that is kept (mostly) out of their digital computer
17:06 decimation actually that gives me another idea: http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/lichtenbergs.html
17:06 assbot What are Lichtenberg Figures, and how are they Made? ... ( http://bit.ly/1OJ4XVi )
17:06 decimation could make a lichtenberg figure key and use a camera to distill down into bits
17:07 asciilifeform decimation: what is the point of it
17:07 asciilifeform once 'distilled to bits', that'd be your key
17:07 decimation asciilifeform: yeah I was thinking about generating key in a seperate machine and then 'hand-carving' the pcb to store key
17:07 asciilifeform the reason why 'physical function' is that it ought to be precisely a ~function~
17:07 asciilifeform that can be used as a one-time pad
17:08 asciilifeform so can 'ask' the glass a 64-bit integer, and get another
17:08 decimation I'm thinking about ways to manage key material that involve physical devices that can be inspected
17:08 asciilifeform and your partner behind enemy lines asks same, and gets same answer.
17:08 asciilifeform decimation: if that's all you want, get a 'sinclair'
17:09 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo "as was the case with this one." << link missing ? << That's a cazalla
17:09 decimation asciilifeform: well, also I want to be reliable
17:09 decimation sinclair uses floppies?
17:09 asciilifeform can use sd card, with a little soldering
17:09 asciilifeform incidentally,
17:09 * asciilifeform has been greatly enjoying http://www.zxdesign.info/book
17:09 assbot The ZX Spectrum ULA: How to design a microcomputer ... ( http://bit.ly/1OJ5wyk )
17:10 asciilifeform it is a priceless tour of 1980s chip design, among other things
17:10 decimation oh I thought they used 6502 like everyone else
17:10 asciilifeform z80
17:10 decimation ah
17:10 asciilifeform the other giant of the '80s
17:11 asciilifeform anyway, the book is about the i/o chip
17:11 asciilifeform not the cpu
17:11 asciilifeform man does not live by cpu alone !
17:11 decimation yeah the 'secret sauce' of the commadore was the video chip
17:11 asciilifeform it was not an era of elusive 'sauces'
17:12 asciilifeform but overall good design
17:12 decimation yes.
17:12 asciilifeform that doesn't reduce to 'xxxx chip'
17:12 decimation based on that 'bil herd' interview, it sounds like the board designers and chip designers worked in same building, with fab!
17:12 asciilifeform and consider also that, of all the toy computers, the one with the singularly worst design in every conceivable way, won.
17:12 decimation because cheap.
17:13 asciilifeform no, WAS NOT CHEAP
17:13 asciilifeform either.
17:13 asciilifeform but bezzle-annointed, yes
17:13 decimation cheaper than s/360
17:13 asciilifeform so it did not matter that it was a stinking pile of shit
17:13 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52911 @ 0.0005037 = 26.6513 BTC [-] {3}
17:13 asciilifeform wasn't competing with s/360
17:13 asciilifeform but with typewriter.
17:13 asciilifeform and secretary (who did the job 10x better, but...)
17:14 decimation true. people who wanted 'adult' computers in the 80's, had
17:14 decimation or at least could get access to one
17:14 asciilifeform http://www.oldcomputers.net/ibm5150.html << prices
17:14 assbot IBM 5150 Personal Computer ... ( http://bit.ly/1hdODl5 )
17:14 asciilifeform add a zero or so for modern usd.
17:15 decimation yeah my dad paid about $1500 in 1989 dollars for x86 pc... 'epson apex'
↖
17:15 asciilifeform the thing was, in every respect, a 'soviet' production in the stereotypical western sense of the word
17:15 asciilifeform it was made by folks who did not have any reason whatsoever to give a fuck re: quality or cost.
17:15 asciilifeform who ~knew~ that they were winners as soon as they popped out of the womb
17:16 asciilifeform and 'winners', naturally, win
17:16 asciilifeform the ibm pc, recall, was that abomination where they didn't even bother to use dram chips that passed qa
17:16 asciilifeform instead, 'deadbugging' several duds over one another
17:16 asciilifeform to get a close approximation of one working unit
17:17 decimation and yet still cost $3k 1981 dollars!
17:18 decimation about $8k 2015 dollars
17:20 mod6 All: I've put some steps together for installing ubuntu 10.04 & debian 6.0.10
17:21 mod6 I've tested installing the iso's indicated on a VM and went through my own steps 2x (once for each OS)
17:21 mod6 if someone with some spare time can validate my findings that would be great -- these are just the first two of a number of these that need to be discovered/defined
17:22 mod6 http://dpaste.com/1TMGCVA.txt
17:22 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1hdPty7 )
17:22 decimation https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/IBM_System_36091.sj.jpg < ascii, entire machine state visible for inspection
17:22 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1hdPtyj )
17:22 asciilifeform as on 'univac'
17:22 asciilifeform and no, not whole state
17:22 asciilifeform just the regs
17:22 decimation well, yeah no storage
17:23 shinohai mod6: I'll do a confirm this week.
17:23 mod6 shinohai: thanks!!
17:23 mod6 much appreciated
17:23 shinohai nw
17:24 shinohai I haven't got to build that latest yet though, still fails on boost every time.
17:26 asciilifeform mod6: have you had a chance to build 'rotor' ?
17:27 mod6 no, not since i couldn't get it to build before. i'll try it again this coming week for sure.
17:27 asciilifeform mod6: note that the toolchain and deps build only ever needs to be done once, per machine
17:28 asciilifeform after that, it is precisely the same as working with 'stator'
17:28 decimation http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/07/26/the_identity_crisis_of_the_modern_zoo/ < amusing: "“If you asked somebody in our profession 10 years ago, ‘Is the gorilla happy?’, they would get really upset and say, ‘Why would you ask such an anthropomorphic question?’ ” said Kagan, 57. “But these sort of things now are legitimately a part of scientific study and assessment.”"
17:28 assbot The identity crisis of the modern zoo - The Boston Globe ... ( http://bit.ly/1OJ7sXQ )
17:28 mod6 asciilifeform: ok, thanks. so noted.
17:29 mod6 i.e. I dont have to rebuild the buildroot & "universe" every time I want to add a patch, just rebuild 'stator'.
17:29 decimation you only really need to rebuild bitcoind if that's what you patched
17:30 asciilifeform aha
17:30 decimation just make sure you are using the correct paths
17:30 mod6 yeah, i was trying to say this: <+decimation> you only really need to rebuild bitcoind if that's what you patched
17:30 decimation one nice thing about 'rotor' system: only one choice of build environment
17:30 mod6 right.
17:30 mod6 i like the allure of this.
17:31 asciilifeform the main allure, for me, was 1) drepper goes to the furnace where he belongs; no glibc 2) can switch cpu arch by turning a knob
17:31 mod6 gotcha.
17:33 shinohai https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fg0jw/could_a_cartel_of_pool_operators_collude_to/ctoh97g
17:33 assbot luke-jr comments on Could a cartel of pool operators collude to 51%-attack the blockchain and/or change the protocol? ... ( http://bit.ly/1OJ7QFR )
17:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00052762 = 5.1707 BTC [+]
17:54 asciilifeform 'It is mid-boggling that a protocol that "handles assets worth billions of dollars" is defined only by a bloated C++ implementation -- maintaned by one company, that of course will not be responsible for any losses...'
17:54 asciilifeform lulzy
17:59 williamdunne jurov: What would you like on the Eurola website? Starting out with clisp so I'll see if I can get that done as my hello world project
18:00 jurov marketplace with orders managed from irc
↖
18:02 williamdunne Wanna do a brief or summin?
18:02 asciilifeform trinque, ben_vulpes, anyone else with 'clang' -- here's an idea, use the graph-walker solrodar used to determine the subset of openssl (see old thread re: same)
18:03 trinque asciilifeform: maybe discernable with better lcov output too?
18:04 asciilifeform trinque: see earlier thread today re: coverage
18:04 trinque the lcov stuff would probably be more helpful with a battery of tests run upon it such as mod6 has discussed
18:04 asciilifeform just because a line did not execute in ten billion hours does not mean that it could not
18:04 asciilifeform have to prove that it is unreachable.
18:04 asciilifeform before it can be cut.
18:04 trinque yeah, true, this would call for static analysis to know it can be cut
18:05 asciilifeform which is what i was talking about.
18:07 jurov doesn't openssl use function pointers?
18:07 asciilifeform does it ?
18:07 trinque odeary me
18:07 * trinque bbl
18:08 jurov just asking, i wouldn't put it past them
18:10 williamdunne jurov: I'm not sure how long I'll be around for, but if you drop me a doc outlining what you want I'll have a look at it tomorrow
18:10 asciilifeform jurov: this kind of thing is at the root of a very old disagreement i have with mircea_popescu
18:11 asciilifeform jurov: his position, if you recall, is that we are more or less stuck with the turds forever.
↖
18:11 asciilifeform because no one will ever fully nail down the function of the existing orchestra
18:11 asciilifeform in such a way as to guarantee 100% compatibility
18:12 jurov i remember
18:12 asciilifeform my position is that this is reasonable, but what is unreasonable is to ever have more respect for a program than its author did.
18:12 jurov williamdunne: eventually.
18:13 asciilifeform and that if you are using a pile of shit which fits in no one's head, don't be surprised when the inevitable happens
18:13 asciilifeform and that there is not a magical elixir that absolves you of the need to 'fit in head'
18:13 asciilifeform all works of man are either 'fits in head' or 'pile of shit', no exceptions
18:14 asciilifeform (note that i did not specify ~which~ head)
18:14 asciilifeform but there has to be... ~a~ head.
18:25 asciilifeform related...
18:25 asciilifeform 'Overriding and updating old information is something I have to work really hard at. The end result of the way I think and the way the standard is defined is that I immediately saw these massively complex ways to do things that "nobody" understood. Take HyTime and what it calls "architectual forms" -- I vividly remember a long walk around a quiet Tallahassee one summer night with the creator of this concept, when I questione
18:25 asciilifeform d some of the designs and how it would be implemented, and he was quiet for the longest time before he said that I was probably the first person to have understood what he was _really_ trying to accomplish. That would have been _such_ a great thing if it had been, say, rocket science, but it was not. It was a man-made complexity so great that it had required _months_ of brain-wracking to really get my intuition working. Tha
18:25 asciilifeform t was the first time I had really serious doubts about the wisdom of SGML's structuring process, because the massive complexity of it all is _completely_ pointless and a result of spreading the semantics so thin that you had to keep mental track of an enormous number of relationships to end up with an idea of what something should do or mean. It does not have to be that way. It was _profoundly_ disappointing to discover that
18:25 asciilifeform at the end of this long process of grasping something that looked intellectually challenging lie only a complexity that resulted from _rejecting_ simplicity of design at a few crucial points. Hell, it still took me years to figure out what alternatives they _should_ have picked up, and by then it was too late.'
18:25 asciilifeform ( http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3207878053204561@naggum.net.html )
18:25 assbot Re: XML and lisp - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1MEOrah )
18:28 asciilifeform '...But it is the same problem we find in C++. The question to be asked of massive complexity like that is not "what wonderful things did you find out that made this necessary", but "whatever did you _miss_ that made this so horribly complex"? You can sometimes see people who are really, really dumb go about some simple tasks in a way that tells you that they have arrived at their ways of performing it through an incredibly
18:28 asciilifeform painful process that they are loathe to reopen or examine at all no matter how hard it is to get it right for them.'
18:33 punkman asciilifeform: all works of man are either 'fits in head' or 'pile of shit', no exceptions << don't some things require more than a single head?
18:34 asciilifeform no
18:34 asciilifeform if something ~requires~ >1 head, it consists of separable things.
18:35 asciilifeform i happen to believe that we have not yet devised the means for truly separating - conceptually - computer programs
18:36 asciilifeform this is why, to return to earlier thread, pdp11 programmed by a single mind who writes every single instruction that the machine will ever execute, can be a jewel that is maintained for generations,
18:36 asciilifeform while pdp11 with unix - loses linefeeds
18:36 asciilifeform and evolves into what we have now
18:36 asciilifeform and is a bottomless pit of 'nobody could have foreseen's
18:38 asciilifeform observe the 'CRITICAL_SECTION' turds in bitcoind
18:38 asciilifeform are those the work of a fella who truly, deeply understood what the machine is doing?
18:38 asciilifeform who had a machine for which this claim could be made, even in principle ?
18:38 asciilifeform or are they something else.
18:43 punkman clearly not understood considering the number of results in https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/search?q=deadlock&type=Issues
18:43 assbot Search Results · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1MEREH5 )
18:44 asciilifeform it is a result of the kind of cargocultism driven by justified and maniacal fear that leads, e.g., c programmers to pepper their code with redundant parenthesis
18:44 asciilifeform (leading to a lifelong phobia of that key on the keyboard)
18:49 asciilifeform my point, incidentally, was not that satoshi was a tard (though it may be)
18:50 asciilifeform but that winblowz makes the kind of certainty needed to avoid the 'grasping for the handrails' described earlier, impossible
18:50 asciilifeform and unix - marginally less so
18:50 punkman Ada on bare metal then?
18:50 asciilifeform for example.
18:52 asciilifeform but also must be very particular, ~which~ metal
18:52 asciilifeform read the src to linux's bootloader some time
18:53 asciilifeform can you tell me which lines are actually necessary ?
18:53 asciilifeform betcha you can't
18:53 asciilifeform even if you took 'operating systems' at uni
18:53 asciilifeform for instance, the 'a20 gate' is almost certainly not actually implemented in your chipset
↖
18:53 asciilifeform yet it is in EVERY MOTHERFUCKING BOOTLOADER on the planet
18:53 asciilifeform even microshit's
18:53 asciilifeform because wat if you have a 386, aha.
↖
18:54 asciilifeform much of this crud is quite like satoshi's 'critical sections'
18:54 asciilifeform included because author has no fucking idea what is going on
18:54 asciilifeform and cut&paste, because 'people have come to expect'
18:54 asciilifeform or 'nobody was ever fired for making bootloader six bytes larger'
18:55 asciilifeform and this shit adds up
18:55 asciilifeform the notion that it doesn't, that it doesn't matter whether bootloader is six bytes of liquid shit heavier,
18:55 asciilifeform is the fundamental lie.
18:55 asciilifeform all of it - matters.
18:56 asciilifeform the fact that x86 cpu has idiot ibm-mandated instructions for doing binary-coded-decimal - MATTERS
18:56 asciilifeform the fact that there is no standardized chipset, and that x86 is really a loose collection of mostly-incompatible shitboxes that somehow pretend to run the same soft - matters.
18:57 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-04-2015#1086967 << see also.
18:57 assbot Logged on 03-04-2015 19:07:33; mircea_popescu: look. whatever whatever may be built as or not, i have two basic expectations. one is, for fucking machinery to behave the same way from night to next evening. the other, albeit weaker, is that if i get a "minimal work" thing i actually have to do minimal work.
19:04 kakobrekla The BIOS in many personal computers stores the date and time in BCD because the MC6818 real-time clock chip used in the original IBM PC AT motherboard provided the time encoded in BCD. < heh
19:05 kakobrekla compatible with the pyramids or what was it
19:08 mircea_popescu contemptible with the pyramids.
19:15 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2014/the-complexity-of-life-a-triad/ < dragonfly article.
19:15 assbot The complexity of life, a triad on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1LZbV9r )
19:17 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1222602 << fucking monitor was like 1200, cca 1985-86
19:17 assbot Logged on 02-08-2015 21:15:16; decimation: yeah my dad paid about $1500 in 1989 dollars for x86 pc... 'epson apex'
19:17 mircea_popescu or 120k of the romanian lei of the time. 50 or so salaries.
19:22 mircea_popescu heh Luke-Jr fighting a loser's battle with his "bitcoin core" matters twu faith.
19:23 mircea_popescu hey midnightmagic ask me things about things will you.
19:24 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1222651 << total win.
19:24 assbot Logged on 02-08-2015 22:00:29; jurov: marketplace with orders managed from irc
19:24 mircea_popescu if jurov finally gets a proper chat system built in, and we have a chat bot that does auction lists etc...
19:24 mircea_popescu eulora is suddenly more advanced than the state of new york.
19:26 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1222669 << the problem is this : you have to verify old blocks. all of them, al lthe way to genesis. if you do not, for whatever reason, you are on an alt. and if you're going to make an alt, better make it properly and deliberately rather than the idiot woman "i had too much too drink so things happened" approach.
19:26 assbot Logged on 02-08-2015 22:11:06; asciilifeform: jurov: his position, if you recall, is that we are more or less stuck with the turds forever.
19:29 mircea_popescu but that aside, naggum's via alf point re complexity being usually and generally as a safe bet the result of someone missing the thinkboat certainly stands resplendent on its own feet.
19:31 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1222718 << no, not "because what if you have a 386" but because a) does it work as is ? and b) do we know anyone who could cut it out and not introduce a bug ?
19:31 assbot Logged on 02-08-2015 22:53:44; asciilifeform: because wat if you have a 386, aha.
19:31 mircea_popescu same reason you have an appendix.
19:31 mircea_popescu "hurts nothing and too hard to take out"
19:32 scoopbot_revived The very very jealous with envy thing, part deux. http://trilema.com/2015/the-very-very-jealous-with-envy-thing-part-deux/
19:35 asciilifeform yes, yes appendix.
19:35 asciilifeform problem is, we're drowning in appendices
19:35 asciilifeform and they all have appendicitis.
19:35 mircea_popescu so it is.
19:36 mircea_popescu every generation has this, an overpowering, indomitable reason why the previous one fails to matter.
19:36 mircea_popescu for kids born in the 80s when talking to their parents it's "shut the fuck up, you fucked women in a single hole your entire life"
19:36 asciilifeform as for the deliberate alt, it is somewhat like the ancient discussion about whether one would rather be 'scanned in' and shot and ~then~ replaced by the robot running the sim, or to have a neuron at a time replaced with electric one
19:36 mircea_popescu and it stands. no man can look you in the face past that, for he's a sort of a toy.
19:36 asciilifeform same result, but many more takers for the latter than the former.
19:37 mircea_popescu but it goes all the way to the fucking celts, you knoiw, "you never had iron tools. everything you say, and everything you think you mean or stand for is therefore invalid"
19:37 asciilifeform ^ well no shit
19:37 mircea_popescu perhaps this is the next one.
19:37 mircea_popescu "you can't code. fuck you."
19:37 asciilifeform these words are uttered, yes, today. by childrenz who 'code' php...
19:38 mircea_popescu it's not fucking magic, yo. utterance is not the glue that makes it stick.
19:38 asciilifeform i see no glue, thus far. only the utterance.
19:38 mircea_popescu we're discussing the future.
19:38 mircea_popescu the reason you can not see the substance of the future should be apparent.
19:38 asciilifeform 'what did the future ever do for me' (tm) (r)
19:38 mircea_popescu >D
19:39 mircea_popescu off to eat bbl
19:48 kakobrekla It seems that evolution had not merely selected the best code for the task, it had also advocated those programs which took advantage of the electromagnetic quirks of that specific microchip environment. The five separate logic cells were clearly crucial to the chip’s operation, but they were interacting with the main circuitry through some unorthodox method < heh
19:49 kakobrekla 'Furthermore, the final program did not work reliably when it was loaded onto other FPGAs of the same type.' < fun
19:50 BingoBoingo https://archive.is/iFfGs
19:50 assbot losermcfail comments on A single political entity effectively has 57% control over Bitcoin's hashpower. What do we do about it? ... ( http://bit.ly/1N2UHGW )
19:51 hanbot sounds like what asciilifeform was talking about.
~ 15 minutes ~
20:06 punkman https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fk3p9/a_single_political_entity_effectively_has_57/ctpcsko lol
20:06 assbot ergofobe comments on A single political entity effectively has 57% control over Bitcoin's hashpower. What do we do about it? ... ( http://bit.ly/1N2WsUx )
20:08 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42196 @ 0.00054474 = 22.9858 BTC [+] {2}
~ 24 minutes ~
20:32 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31300 @ 0.00054499 = 17.0582 BTC [+] {3}
20:39 asciilifeform https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fk3p9/a_single_political_entity_effectively_has_57 << philippino up the thread, naturally
20:39 assbot A single political entity effectively has 57% control over Bitcoin's hashpower. What do we do about it? : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1IF68Fd )
20:42 mircea_popescu kinda sad roi really.
20:42 mircea_popescu but what do i know.
20:42 asciilifeform which i
20:42 mircea_popescu <
20:42 asciilifeform ah
20:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: re: earlier and recurrent mempool thread: consider this: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#2776
20:45 assbot Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1E3RUbz )
20:45 asciilifeform classical apparatus has a data structure, 'mapPriority', http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?_i=mapPriority
20:45 assbot Satoshi 0.5.3.1 identifier search: mapPriority ... ( http://bit.ly/1E3RTnX )
20:46 mircea_popescu dPriority /= ::GetSerializeSize(tx, SER_NETWORK);
↖
20:46 asciilifeform sum(valuein * age) / txsize
20:46 mircea_popescu right
20:46 mircea_popescu course this is mining priority neh ?
20:46 asciilifeform which is odd, does not correspond to the formula given
20:46 asciilifeform or hm, divided, yes
20:46 asciilifeform but anyway, it is used when conjuring up a block, aha
20:47 mircea_popescu dPriority += (double)nValueIn * nConf; << seems it does
20:47 mircea_popescu aha.
20:47 asciilifeform can just as easily use when 1) evicting 2) sharing inventory
20:47 mircea_popescu we don't give a shit about agwe
20:47 asciilifeform yes!
20:47 mircea_popescu i specifically chose to ignore this.
20:47 asciilifeform whole point of this conversation is that i wanted to say this
20:47 mircea_popescu a ok
20:47 mircea_popescu looky : there are parts where we may... ever so slightly... deviate.
20:48 mircea_popescu take what you can.
20:48 asciilifeform well, and one other thing - what does payware node feed non-payers ?
20:48 asciilifeform anything?
20:48 asciilifeform random ordering?
20:48 mircea_popescu i have been thinking about it.
20:48 asciilifeform same
20:48 mircea_popescu it's not a trivial question
20:48 asciilifeform was in a hammock for some hours earlier, thinking about only this.
20:49 mircea_popescu nothing may be it.
20:49 mircea_popescu has some historical support anyway
20:49 asciilifeform if nothing, how to ramp up?
20:49 mircea_popescu myeah.
20:49 asciilifeform (right now this would have the effect of essentially unplugging my node)
20:50 mircea_popescu of course it could fed the discarded txn
20:50 asciilifeform whereas if you feed the hobos when paying folks aren't bidding, you get essentially same situation as fees
20:50 asciilifeform where hobos 'come to expect'
20:50 asciilifeform and the overall friction of their presence is a permanent irritant
20:51 asciilifeform if we feed the hobos the pigshit end of the priority queue, they simply have an incentive to run away to any other node
20:51 mircea_popescu to make sure : your notion of "paying" includes "peers that relay txn that are worthy of going in our pool", correct ?
↖
20:51 asciilifeform which feeds unsorted
20:51 mircea_popescu so what's wrong with this incentive ?
20:51 asciilifeform leaving this conundrum aside
20:51 asciilifeform because it remains unspecified how to implement any notion of 'peers that bring good tx'
20:51 asciilifeform because peers have no identity
20:51 mircea_popescu ip.
20:51 asciilifeform ip is ephemeral
20:51 asciilifeform and comms are unauthenticated.
20:52 mircea_popescu ip!
20:52 mircea_popescu the "signed" option can be in v2.0
20:52 asciilifeform the buggerz already have infrastructure set up for diddling bitcoin net, all they gotta do now is drop in shit tx
20:52 mircea_popescu have a special, encrypted protocol. fix the "magic hole" issue too
20:52 asciilifeform that's sorta what i was doing in the hammock
20:53 mircea_popescu too soon, srsly.
20:53 asciilifeform in my head!
20:53 mircea_popescu alright.
20:53 asciilifeform the problem i ~would~ like to solve near-term is 'node demands infinite ram'
20:53 asciilifeform this has to die.
20:53 asciilifeform how - is secondary
20:53 mircea_popescu the most important point of military strategy is that a weak position which the enemy doesn't invest is not really weak in any sense. this is the meaning of napoleon's "never interrupt"
20:54 asciilifeform converse of this is that weak position enemy ~does~ invest in, means death.
20:54 mircea_popescu nah.
20:54 mircea_popescu you doin't actually want to kill.
20:54 asciilifeform 'what you don't know about will not only hurt you, but eat you for lunch and ask for seconds' (tm) (r)
20:54 mircea_popescu ever read any balzac incidentally ?
20:55 asciilifeform nope
20:55 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28150 @ 0.000545 = 15.3418 BTC [+] {2}
20:55 asciilifeform though iirc there is one in my queue
20:55 mircea_popescu he's worth a read, man had a knack for comprehendingsocial science.
20:55 asciilifeform on account of some earlier mircea_popescuism
20:55 mircea_popescu anyway, he has a story about doesn't matter what, in which the setting is that two groups have licenses to print newspapers in some small town
20:55 mircea_popescu one of them dominates, but takes care the other one (some widow, buncha incompetent losers) doesn't outright go out of business
20:55 mircea_popescu for the obvious reason.
20:56 asciilifeform microshit&apple, 1990s
20:56 asciilifeform aha
20:56 mircea_popescu the casual, obvious manner in which he treats this otherwise subtle point really stuck with me. 1800s! man got it.
20:57 mircea_popescu he also has an excellent depiction of the exact mechanics of inheritance in eugenie grandet
20:58 mircea_popescu it's quite simple : if you're old but somehow "owner", you will get so fucking raped you'll deplore the protections of that "ownership".
20:58 asciilifeform the gas/car dichotomy, aha
20:59 mircea_popescu pretty much every amateur thinker / world saver captive in english as his sole language would benefit immensely from reading balzac. whereas the clueful might really enjoy the elegant display he makes of things.
21:01 asciilifeform momentarily back to http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-08-2015#1222828 : at this point i very much regard the notion of 'so-and-so is an ip, and at this moment he is Worthy, and now let's try to calculate when he isn't...' as deeply mistaken.
21:01 assbot Logged on 03-08-2015 00:51:09; mircea_popescu: to make sure : your notion of "paying" includes "peers that relay txn that are worthy of going in our pool", correct ?
21:01 asciilifeform it has to run like normal wot.
21:01 mircea_popescu "has" . why has.
21:01 asciilifeform because crypto
21:02 punkman can just vpn?
21:02 asciilifeform because the comms have to be private and authenticated. and these concepts have no meaning when dealing with unknowns.
21:02 scoopbot_revived The 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9 Sunday event http://trilema.com/2015/the-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-sunday-event/
21:03 mircea_popescu can we carry this discussion in practical terms ?
21:03 mircea_popescu someone is going to steal my ip ?
21:03 asciilifeform not sure how to make it more intensely practical
21:03 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: no, someone will mitm the link
21:03 asciilifeform just as is happening to your box now, and mine
21:03 asciilifeform just that now they are contenting themselves with nulling the payloads.
21:04 asciilifeform do i have to describe here how mitm works? draw a picture ?
21:05 asciilifeform unlike the rest of bitcoin, mempool ~is~ sensitive to mitm and other real-time issues
21:05 shinohai with crayons perhaps?
21:05 asciilifeform yes, satoshi was concerned only that blocks are agreed on and that the constituent tx are genuine, etc
21:05 asciilifeform but we are speaking of nodes trading mempool sorted by minability value
21:06 asciilifeform this is inherently time-sensitive and diddlable (if only in the pure withholding sense)
21:06 mircea_popescu hm
21:07 asciilifeform not to mention the fact that the payload itself has value!
21:07 mircea_popescu i find no counters to summon.
21:07 asciilifeform as i understand now, we are converging on something quite like (what is known of) the chinese approach.
21:08 mircea_popescu indeed
21:08 asciilifeform where the peers actually drink beer (or what do they drink there?) together
21:08 mircea_popescu this is illusory, my well placed flies on the wall tell me.
21:08 mircea_popescu i nfact, they don't actually trust each other enough to share... ips
21:08 asciilifeform unsurprising. but they share tx?
21:08 mircea_popescu but yes, meta-chinese, whatever.
21:09 mircea_popescu they maybe do.
21:09 mircea_popescu oriental love.
21:09 asciilifeform i suppose meta-china is where they mine with actual nodes
21:09 asciilifeform instead of 'spv' or whatever thing named after herpes virus
21:09 mircea_popescu aptly named.
21:09 mircea_popescu fucking americans and their macdonalds.
21:09 mircea_popescu "oh you know what we could do to make this meal shittier ? shit in it!"
21:09 mircea_popescu no shit, sherlick.
21:10 asciilifeform china: 'we already discovered it 5,000 yrs ago. here, have some fried rat turd dumpling'
21:10 mircea_popescu spv nodes. because sometime you will want to pretend you're wearing a greatcoat and only have a q-tip
21:11 mircea_popescu and that sometime is right now and that someone is most everyone and this somehow matters now.
21:11 mircea_popescu "because we haven't joined the sv circus to not deliver huge numbers devoid of any content or meaning!!1" as hearn aptly put it.
21:12 asciilifeform the sheer monumental stupidity of this floored me, and i am still half-convinced that it is disinfo somehow
21:12 asciilifeform what, no one in cn can score a sat dish ?
21:12 mircea_popescu it's not anymore disinfo than the "civil rights movement"
21:12 asciilifeform and a contract with, fuck, norway ?
21:12 mircea_popescu you know, us faking its own death.
21:13 * asciilifeform was - until recently - labouring under the notion that cn was quite alive
21:14 mircea_popescu thin live layer at the top, exactly like the froth of 90s moscow.
↖
21:14 mircea_popescu peat underneath.
21:14 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19706 @ 0.000545 = 10.7398 BTC [+]
21:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22944 @ 0.00055531 = 12.741 BTC [+] {3}
21:18 mircea_popescu lol wikipedia thinks george sand was a "feminist" writer
21:18 mircea_popescu lawd have mercy.
~ 15 minutes ~
21:34 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2015/the-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-sunday-event/#selection-193.21-193.36 << got the sexpr ? hm ? HM ?
↖
21:34 assbot The 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9 Sunday event on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HjLEwj )
21:34 punkman !up alaricsp
21:40 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6350 @ 0.00055744 = 3.5397 BTC [+] {3}
~ 18 minutes ~
21:59 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14163 @ 0.00055771 = 7.8988 BTC [+]
22:03 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6306 @ 0.00054474 = 3.4351 BTC [-]
22:04 asciilifeform ben_vulpes, mod6, trinque: http://www.skynet.ie/~caolan/Packages/callcatcher.html
22:04 assbot callcatcher: collect functions/methods defined and subtract called/referenced ... ( http://bit.ly/1K0b0Bi )
22:07 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-08-2015#1222917 << wasn't aware that it was anything but the weevils eating carcass of dead dragon, top to bottom
22:07 assbot Logged on 03-08-2015 01:14:02; mircea_popescu: thin live layer at the top, exactly like the froth of 90s moscow.
22:08 asciilifeform what layer.
↖
22:10 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.00053881 = 10.8301 BTC [-] {3}
22:16 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00053792 = 10.9467 BTC [-] {3}
22:19 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28050 @ 0.00053682 = 15.0578 BTC [-] {3}
22:25 decimation 01:12 <+asciilifeform> the sheer monumental stupidity of this floored me, and i am still half-convinced that it is disinfo somehow < at some point we are gonna run our own mining corp too :(
22:29 asciilifeform decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-08-2015#1220100 << see also
22:29 assbot Logged on 01-08-2015 00:37:07; mircea_popescu: suppose we're in the park. "throw the crumbs over there" "but the birds won't see them" "doesn't matter, we're the only things that matter here" "but we don't cluck"
22:31 decimation heh
22:32 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34735 @ 0.00052119 = 18.1035 BTC [-]
22:41 decimation asciilifeform: related: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175695 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175696 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175697
22:41 assbot Logged on 25-06-2015 04:45:12; decimation: asciilifeform: why would ulbricht keep detailed records of his incriminating evidence on his laptop?
22:41 assbot Logged on 25-06-2015 04:45:22; asciilifeform: decimation: because retardation?
22:41 assbot Logged on 25-06-2015 04:45:26; decimation: exactly.
22:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.00050914 = 12.8812 BTC [-] {5}
22:51 decimation the longer I live, the more dubious I am of the initial assumption that 'enemy plays hand to his maximum advantage'
22:52 decimation granted, sometimes you gotta think that way for strategic reasons, but it often misleads
~ 18 minutes ~
23:11 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88950 @ 0.00050361 = 44.7961 BTC [-] {7}
23:24 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39400 @ 0.00050271 = 19.8068 BTC [-]
23:29 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24050 @ 0.00051505 = 12.387 BTC [+] {3}
23:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.00051755 = 10.6615 BTC [+]
23:49 decimation heh apparently the avro vulcan (famous uk nuke bomber) was based on german swept-wing research
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