00:03 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: funnily enuff, speaking of 2014, it's what asciilifeform spent good % of it doing -- discovering how to make a reliable unwhitened rng. |
00:03 |
asciilifeform |
surprisingly tricky (if no one to crib from , lol) |
| |
↖ |
00:05 |
asciilifeform |
funnilyx9000, afaik to this day there's no straight patch to make trb run off fg (or any other iron trng) |
00:06 |
asciilifeform |
( various folx threatened to 'separate the wallet' , afaik no one succeeded yet ) |
00:07 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: pest box (esp. after we've 'rekey') defo would win from a working trng. |
00:07 |
asciilifeform |
(as even stated in the spec) |
00:11 |
asciilifeform |
asciilifeform's proposed rekey algo, for reference : peer A takes 512bit sA from trng, sends sha512(sA) ('key offer') to peer B. the latter does same; sB; sends sha512(sB) to A. then A sends sA to B, who verifies that it hashes to the earlier hash; if yes, sends his 'key slice' similarly to A. new mutual key is sA ^ sB ^ the key they had the conversaion with. |
00:11 |
asciilifeform |
the output of the xor replaces the old key they were speaking with. |
00:12 |
asciilifeform |
this way : 1) neither A nor B can impose an arbitrary (possib. weak) key 2) the entropy of the new key is the max of sA, sB, and the old key. |
00:12 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. if either A or B has a proper trng, the new key is 'of trng quality'. |
00:13 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion ^ |
00:14 |
* |
asciilifeform still hasn't written the appropriate spec section. but the above is more or less a complete description of same. |
00:15 |
asciilifeform |
ideally all peers rekey at least erry 24h |
00:15 |
asciilifeform |
(or moar often when folx start piping e.g. warez over pest, and moar 'mileage wear' on keys) |
00:16 |
asciilifeform |
and of course one can still send a peer new key 'by hand' / pgpgram. |
00:16 |
asciilifeform |
really 'gold standard' is for key to travel rsa'd. |
| |
~ 1 hours 47 minutes ~ |
02:03 |
verisimilitude |
That does fix the issue I'd mentioned. If sA or sB be zero, it would no longer be disastrous. |
02:04 |
verisimilitude |
At worst, the current key is still used. |
02:10 |
signpost |
I separated the wallet, have a patch |
02:12 |
signpost |
rather, removed, and then used pycoin to make transactions |
02:12 |
signpost |
this variant of trb was part of the deedbot wallet stack |
| |
~ 1 hours 13 minutes ~ |
03:26 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: right, i recall. was speaking of the orig. 'cut trb in 2' concept there |
03:27 |
asciilifeform |
( not, turned out, at all simple, thing being a 1st class ball of yarn where literally erry wart interdepends on erry other ) |
03:30 |
signpost |
yep, didn't seem like productive use of time, when the full cut approached rewrite |
03:30 |
asciilifeform |
aaha |
03:30 |
signpost |
and if this, why still in c++ |
03:31 |
asciilifeform |
imho it is however entirely possible to transplant a sane db in place of bdb. |
| |
↖ ↖ ↖ |
03:31 |
asciilifeform |
ditto the cryptonumerics. |
03:31 |
asciilifeform |
aand the networking stack. |
03:31 |
asciilifeform |
(and then to throw out the remaining lint...) |
| |
~ 22 minutes ~ |
03:54 |
signpost |
tell you hwut, this vdiff inability to handle binary files is something of a barrier to jamming existing bootloaders into a vpatch |
03:54 |
* |
signpost just about ready to fart out a min-linux, but grunting through ^ |
04:03 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: what's wrong with e.g. echo DEADBEEF... | xxd -r -p > turd.bin ? |
04:04 |
asciilifeform |
(imho this or equiv. is the sane way to represent bins in a human-readable) |
04:04 |
asciilifeform |
DEADBEEF can be any length of hexolade req'd |
04:05 |
signpost |
yeah, will likely end up grunting through syslinux with that. |
04:05 |
asciilifeform |
if a binturd absolutely must be present -- this'd be how |
04:07 |
signpost |
and actually, better this, bootsector's readable in pressed state too, and not just in patch. |
04:07 |
asciilifeform |
aaha |
04:08 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. in place of a binturd, you have a binturd-generator, which can be diffed. or even macroasmed into sumthing like readability, and ~then~ diffed. |
04:09 |
asciilifeform |
even if all you can do to it w/out thorough reversemassage is to replace e.g. runs of 9000 0s with ZERO(9000) |
04:09 |
asciilifeform |
still makes for over9000x moar 'diffability' |
04:12 |
asciilifeform |
see from pov where in fact no one actually needs a bootloader, the thing folx need in reality is a proggy that will emplace a bootloader on given device |
04:12 |
asciilifeform |
said proggy can very well consist of human text. |
04:15 |
signpost |
was hoping to pull syslinux for this, but the thing not slim. but what one gets is boot from iso, efi, as well as bios boot. |
04:15 |
signpost |
lilo, simple, but hauls in nasm |
04:16 |
signpost |
whole space of bootloaders stinks of "nobody takes joy in this place" |
| |
↖ |
04:21 |
signpost |
maybe for efi I just use the kernel's efi stub and efibootmgr and call it a day. |
04:34 |
signpost |
https://wiki.syslinux.org/wiki/index.php?title=Doc/comboot << buncha these thingers just thrown in with the syslinux src in bin fmt |
04:35 |
signpost |
rather than an asm txt that is compiled to c32. |
| |
~ 23 minutes ~ |
04:58 |
signpost |
ah wait, it was bin86, not nasm, for lilo. |
04:58 |
signpost |
anyway, to bed I go. |
| |
~ 8 hours 37 minutes ~ |
13:36 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-11#1065351 << this is entirely so -- bootloader is 'unsexy', it either satisfies the bios (either legacy msdos-style, or 'modern' efi horror) and gets out of the way, or doesn't, not much room for 'high pilotage' |
13:36 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-11 23:16:08 signpost: whole space of bootloaders stinks of "nobody takes joy in this place" |
13:38 |
* |
asciilifeform very partial to stuffing kernel directly in rom, but this is tricky on current-day x86 irons. worx a++ on e.g. apu. |
13:41 |
asciilifeform |
interestingly, would be relatively simple (and 100% compat. with even the most 'evil' current x86 box) to keep it on 'option rom' of a pcie card. but afaik no one manufacturs such a card (ideally would have simply a hole for usb drive, to serve as the rom, and fpga to talk to the bus. update of kernel strictly by physically pulling the stick and writing to same) |
13:43 |
asciilifeform |
... then obv. would need no bootloader. |
| |
~ 45 minutes ~ |
14:28 |
punkman |
fun short story https://zerohplovecraft.wordpress.com/2021/07/07/dont-make-me-think/ |
| |
↖ |
14:28 |
asciilifeform |
wb punkman |
14:30 |
asciilifeform |
meanwhile concluding yest's recycling operation : ty shinohai ! net yield from 'bsv' recycling into piggy == 0.09461753 . after all recycling ops, piggy nao == 34.07754558 , and this'll be in the next broadcast ! |
| |
↖ ↖ |
14:30 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-11 14:37:43 asciilifeform: on shinohai's rec, trying that gox, hypothetically in ~day might see output |
14:30 |
asciilifeform |
( interestingly, the bsv eater demanded ~100~ confs ) |
14:31 |
shinohai |
gm asciilifeform ... yeah BSV has been 51% attacked several times in recent months, so most exchanges require many confirms. |
14:32 |
* |
shinohai recommended asciilifeform perform exchange himself in case shit hit the fan and his signing key was needed ... |
14:33 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: i expect this is 1st and last time asciilifeform will need to fiddle with shitcoins, lol |
14:34 |
shinohai |
But wait until the SuperExcellentRealRealBitcoin fork! |
14:34 |
asciilifeform |
the lemon is 100% squeezed nao ( incidentally that same gox eats 'btg' but i was unable to find a working client for same. so ~those~ bitcents can be considered lost , likely ) |
| |
↖ |
14:35 |
asciilifeform |
even booted up a malware mswin box and tried their 'official' one, it wouldn't connect. |
14:35 |
shinohai |
Likely 0 individuals running noads. |
14:37 |
asciilifeform |
well the changely gox thing claims to eat 'btg', so presumably runs one ? |
14:38 |
asciilifeform |
then again anyone can claim anyffin. |
14:42 |
shinohai |
Funny enuf in most BTC forks don't even bother changing ip's in `chainparamsseeds.h` so are still attempting connection to prb nodes hardcoded in. |
14:42 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: these at one time (perhaps still, haven't looked recently) regularly popped up an' try to feed liquishit to trb noades |
14:43 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-12#1065362 << seems to contain some kinda hieroglyphs i haven't installed in xorg, lol |
14:43 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-12 09:28:20 punkman: fun short story https://zerohplovecraft.wordpress.com/2021/07/07/dont-make-me-think/ |
| |
~ 22 minutes ~ |
15:05 |
punkman |
it's littered with emojis, can ignore/strip |
15:17 |
asciilifeform |
a |
15:17 |
asciilifeform |
prolly wants to be read on a crapple. i'ma save for later. |
| |
~ 1 hours 20 minutes ~ |
16:38 |
asciilifeform |
$ticker btc usd |
16:38 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $62832.74 |
16:38 |
asciilifeform |
!w poll |
16:38 |
watchglass |
Polling 17 nodes... |
16:38 |
watchglass |
185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect! |
16:38 |
watchglass |
84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect! |
16:38 |
watchglass |
176.9.59.199:8333 : Could not connect! (Operator: jurov) |
16:38 |
watchglass |
185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect! |
16:38 |
watchglass |
71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.093s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709399 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
16:38 |
watchglass |
213.109.238.156:8333 : Could not connect! |
16:38 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=709399 |
16:38 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709399 |
16:38 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.107s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=709399 |
16:38 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709399 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
16:38 |
watchglass |
54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.179s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709399 |
16:38 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.088s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=709399 (Operator: whaack) |
16:38 |
watchglass |
208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.225s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709399 |
16:38 |
watchglass |
54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.253s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709399 |
16:38 |
watchglass |
143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.245s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709399 |
16:38 |
watchglass |
103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.595s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=709399 |
16:39 |
watchglass |
192.151.158.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.) |
16:44 |
* |
cgra wears scoopbot mask and: "New post on cgra's: TRB Defect Exhibition - Two DoS Classics" |
16:44 |
asciilifeform |
ohey |
16:47 |
* |
asciilifeform commented, tho atm only re sect.2 |
16:54 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: in practice, is ~impossible to use 'cooked' faux-old blox to perma-wedge a node -- the victim would have to be connected to the perp and no one else. but they do waste substantial cpu time. |
17:06 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: why has to be connected to perp only? |
17:07 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: if yer connected to a genuine noad, eventually will reorg to proper chain |
17:07 |
asciilifeform |
then again nobody knows how long a reorg is actually possib. in practice. |
17:08 |
* |
asciilifeform not yet observed in the wild a noad wedged by being fed a constructed >pow fauxchain. dun mean it's impossible. |
17:08 |
cgra |
ah you mean can't fool into inhabiting an altchain, as in to believe were the main chain |
17:08 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: can, tho, as i understand, waste astonishing amt of cpu time & disk tho |
17:09 |
asciilifeform |
(esp. given as current trb stores blox that got reorg'd away) |
17:09 |
cgra |
just meant as another fill ram/disk DoS |
17:09 |
asciilifeform |
aha |
17:09 |
asciilifeform |
imho 'cement' is an adequate pill. |
17:09 |
asciilifeform |
still gotta be implemented tho |
17:09 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: yeah, should be easy to implement |
17:10 |
cgra |
how about user knob of 'how much work or height to past at most, considered valid'? |
17:11 |
asciilifeform |
hm? |
17:12 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: iirc you intended similar for nqb, the line between forever frozen blocks and possibly-reorging blocks |
17:12 |
asciilifeform |
aa |
17:12 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. permit operator to request a noad to consider 0...n blox as already cemented |
| |
↖ |
17:12 |
asciilifeform |
potentially risky, he has nfi what they are necessarily |
| |
↖ |
17:13 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: i suppose it's something the operator needs to keep an eye on, perhaps a runtime knob? |
17:13 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: indeed asciilifeform proposed a max realistic reorg for nqb, but strictly for allowing readonly o(1) blox db |
17:15 |
asciilifeform |
trb already has a max reorg length, we simply dun know what it is, lol |
| |
↖ ↖ |
17:16 |
cgra |
interesting point :) |
| |
~ 18 minutes ~ |
17:35 |
cgra |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-12#1065424 << to be exact, permit the operator to tell node how much recent work reorgable. this seems to me like it's a thing 'operator must operate' like periodic adding to the cement would be. if your comment still applies, can you elaborate? |
17:35 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-12 12:12:24 asciilifeform: i.e. permit operator to request a noad to consider 0...n blox as already cemented |
17:35 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-12 12:12:37 asciilifeform: potentially risky, he has nfi what they are necessarily |
17:36 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: imho there defo oughta be such a knob. simply noting that it aint a 100% substitute for 'cement' where can specify concrete known hashes. |
17:36 |
asciilifeform |
(incl. to massively speed up rejection of bogoblox during init sync) |
17:37 |
cgra |
right |
17:37 |
asciilifeform |
a cemented noad oughta sync at ~linerate -- it knows exactly what to ask for (and what to throw out w/out even reading) |
| |
↖ |
17:42 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: is 'line rate' assuming other block processing bottlenecks fixed, or hash optimism? |
17:45 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: main bottleneck historically is bogoblox per se |
17:46 |
asciilifeform |
(they aint even always bogus per se, simply 'not the next one') |
17:46 |
asciilifeform |
btw imho a noad oughta still verify a block normally even if its hash was found in 'cement' |
17:46 |
cgra |
asciilifeform: swallowing a block even on an intelist box, seconds/piece |
17:47 |
asciilifeform |
cgra: some up to minute+, on e.g. asciilifeform's apu1 noad |
17:48 |
asciilifeform |
replacing the db with proper o(1) nqb+cryostat would fix this, bdb is monstrously slow |
| |
↖ |
17:48 |
asciilifeform |
main bottleneck historically however is the low snr, so to speak, in incoming blox during init sync |
17:48 |
asciilifeform |
(i.e. not only is db slow, but most of the churn constitutes wasted cycles on unwantex blocks) |
17:48 |
asciilifeform |
*unwanted |
17:49 |
cgra |
yeah |
| |
~ 2 hours 52 minutes ~ |
20:42 |
asciilifeform |
hm thimbronion i'm on pestnet (testing a rubbish-sending variant of your current vdiff) and send a helloworld, but not showing up in pestlog |
20:44 |
asciilifeform |
the draft patch, for reference. |
20:47 |
asciilifeform |
oh lol it lost my keys didntit |
20:47 |
asciilifeform |
disregard patch, it is braindamaged, will need to redo |
20:50 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: ack |
20:50 |
thimbronion |
good to know you are working on such |
20:54 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: how on earth do i get current own nickname from inside 'server' ? |
20:59 |
asciilifeform |
the oopism is ultra-hobbling |
21:03 |
asciilifeform |
why aint there a send_broadcast which takes arbitrary payload ? |
21:03 |
* |
asciilifeform prolly oughta leave this alone until thimbronion gets a chance to sweep it a little |
21:04 |
asciilifeform |
atm mega-spaghetti (with all respect to author, who baked it in record time) |
21:04 |
* |
bonechewer is unqualified to write a debunking of the oopism present in nearly every introductory programming text, but would love to read a good one if it exists |
21:05 |
asciilifeform |
bonechewer: the most persuasive 'debunking' is an encounter with typical oop proggy, lol |
21:06 |
bonechewer |
yeah but hard to explain to the rank beginners that I work with just WHY they should ignore that chapter with the usual useless contrived example of "car" inheriting from "vehicle", etc, etc. |
21:06 |
bonechewer |
I've found oopism useful for GUI stuff, rarely if ever elsewhere |
21:07 |
asciilifeform |
bonechewer: oopism as typically encountered was pushed by salt mine types, and for logical reasons -- it ties the hands of the mediocrities they employ to try to limit the damage that can be done by a particular indian shudra |
21:07 |
asciilifeform |
(by isolating subsystems) |
21:08 |
asciilifeform |
rather like the plastic scissors given to american schoolchildren |
21:08 |
asciilifeform |
in very few places is oopism a net win from any other pov |
21:09 |
bonechewer |
that sounds about right, but doesn't explain why every damned learn-to-coad book feels obligated to posit oopism as essential core knowledge |
21:10 |
asciilifeform |
bonechewer: for simple reason. the books are largely written for aspiring 'indians' . |
21:11 |
* |
thimbronion has spent many an hour staring into the server.rb/client.rb spaghetti bowl |
21:12 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: if you're able to make a working variant of my patch, would be much appreciated. presently asciilifeform is at a loss re how, the req'd knobs aint in 1 obv. place. |
21:13 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: idea is to make use of the pingpong timer as a kludge for getting a minimal rubbish flow rate to keep ephemeral port from evaporating. |
21:13 |
thimbronion |
I will check out the patch. To get a nickname, you need to have access to a particular client instance. |
21:13 |
asciilifeform |
(a user-controllable timer would be Right Thing, tho) |
21:13 |
asciilifeform |
ugh ok |
21:13 |
asciilifeform |
that's what i meant re oopism |
21:13 |
bonechewer |
separately: wrt BTC-accepting colo, I have no personal experience with endoffice.com but some internet acquaintances recommend it as cheap and flexible. |
21:13 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-11 16:23:19 asciilifeform: whaack: i defo agree re nodes. plox to write in with recs if you know of reasonable quality btc-eating hosts (other than asciilifeform's, lol, cage) |
21:14 |
asciilifeform |
bonechewer: lol their www times out |
21:14 |
asciilifeform |
not a good sign |
21:15 |
PeterL |
asciilifeform: for something like this, how would you structure the program without using oopisms? |
21:15 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: imho there's no good reason to have a pest instance support >1 irc client. (i can guess why did this, but imho guest users are best implemented using an external proggy) |
| |
↖ |
21:16 |
bonechewer |
hmm, https://www.endoffice.com/minicolo.html works for me... though hopefully they have enough sense to host their www outside their own data center |
21:16 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: noted. I didn't add that capability in myself, just came with the irc server code I repped off, which naturally would support multiple clients. |
| |
↖ |
21:17 |
asciilifeform |
bonechewer: it dun load here |
21:17 |
asciilifeform |
at all |
21:17 |
bonechewer |
sigh |
21:17 |
asciilifeform |
$ curl -v https://www.endoffice.com/minicolo.html |
21:17 |
asciilifeform |
* Trying 207.55.251.136:443... |
21:17 |
asciilifeform |
* Connected to www.endoffice.com (207.55.251.136) port 443 (#0) |
21:17 |
asciilifeform |
* ALPN, offering h2 |
21:17 |
asciilifeform |
* ALPN, offering http/1.1 |
21:17 |
asciilifeform |
* successfully set certificate verify locations: |
21:17 |
asciilifeform |
* CAfile: /etc/ssl/certs/ca-certificates.crt |
21:17 |
asciilifeform |
* CApath: /etc/ssl/certs |
21:17 |
asciilifeform |
* TLSv1.3 (OUT), TLS handshake, Client hello (1): |
21:17 |
asciilifeform |
hangs. |
| |
↖ |
21:17 |
asciilifeform |
thimbronion: makes sense |
21:18 |
bonechewer |
well, that is indeed probably a bad sign. "works for me" is probably not the kind of routing one wants. |
21:18 |
asciilifeform |
bonechewer: prolly 1 of those morons who blocks half the planet because got ddosed at some pt |
21:23 |
* |
asciilifeform must bbl |
| |
~ 17 minutes ~ |
21:41 |
thimbronion |
asciilifeform: I see what you're doing with the patch. It conflicts with some changes that are underway. I will wrap those up and get a version of your patch in next. |
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21:48 |
billymg |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-12#1065481 << fwiw at the moment my pest instance has two clients, myself and the bot |
21:48 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-12 16:15:48 asciilifeform: thimbronion: imho there's no good reason to have a pest instance support >1 irc client. (i can guess why did this, but imho guest users are best implemented using an external proggy) |
21:53 |
shinohai |
I'm using to separate instances for my bot and self. |
21:53 |
shinohai |
s/to/two/ |
22:01 |
billymg |
shinohai: same box? |
22:01 |
billymg |
or different boxes also |
22:04 |
shinohai |
billymg: different boxes. |
22:06 |
billymg |
shinohai: gotcah |
22:06 |
* |
billymg needs more boxes |
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~ 1 hours 3 minutes ~ |
23:10 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-12#1065501 << thx thimbronion |
23:10 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-11-12 16:41:10 thimbronion: asciilifeform: I see what you're doing with the patch. It conflicts with some changes that are underway. I will wrap those up and get a version of your patch in next. |