00:29 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-30#1054745 << mega-dump today incidentally |
00:29 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-30 17:11:34 billymg: asciilifeform: yes, they've been 'firing on all cyclinders' lately, but i still don't think they can do this forever (like they do with gld) |
00:29 |
asciilifeform |
$ticker btc usd |
00:29 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $46884.17 |
00:30 |
asciilifeform |
( and they can do it for so long as waterfall runs ) |
00:31 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-30#1054737 << if asciilifeform exaggerates, is simply because 'death by 1000 cuts' of spiraling expenses (+ 100% fixed usd income, and largely stagnant -- in last 6mo -- not to mention 'unspendable' -- btc) is painful |
00:31 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-30 17:06:09 billymg: asciilifeform: that's hyperbole, even by your own account btc has done much much better than inflation |
| |
~ 20 minutes ~ |
00:51 |
pete_rizzo_ |
eureka |
| |
↖ |
00:54 |
asciilifeform |
welcome to #a, pete_rizzo_ |
00:54 |
pete_rizzo_ |
thanks for the invite |
| |
↖ |
00:54 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: don't forget about the logs. |
00:55 |
pete_rizzo_ |
yes, thanks. definitely intend to dig into those |
00:57 |
shinohai |
oh hai pete_rizzo_ ya made it |
00:57 |
pete_rizzo_ |
barely, but yes |
00:59 |
pete_rizzo_ |
half the time when i try to explore everything you guys have been up to, i admit, it takes me about 10-15 minutes to wrap my head around where I was previously... :) |
| |
~ 18 minutes ~ |
01:18 |
pete_rizzo_ |
Anyway, I guess I'll give you all the brief introduction I gave #asciilifeform via email. |
01:18 |
pete_rizzo_ |
I was one of the first writers at CoinDesk (now an Editor at Bitcoin Magazine). FWIW I largely now agree with all your respective criticisms of CoinDesk and it's failures over the years... |
01:18 |
pete_rizzo_ |
I now focus on putting together historical pieces for BM (https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/what-happened-when-bitcoin-creator-satoshi-nakamoto-disappeared) that are the products of some months of research. My hopes is these will actually add value to Bitcoin in some way, but I may be suffering from the usual human delusions in this regard... |
01:18 |
pete_rizzo_ |
I started researching Mircea pretty seriously back in April, as I've followed B-A tangentially over the years. My intent was to write up an overview of his life/work in the same vein as the article above (and other recent work). |
01:18 |
pete_rizzo_ |
I'm sure some of you will have reservations about talking to me given my past associations, but I guess to that, I would say, I think my Mircea obituary showcased I have an understanding of what bitcoin-assets was about (as much as any observer could at least) |
01:19 |
pete_rizzo_ |
anyway, sorry if that's long |
01:20 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: i rec to read the logs; may find that all of your questions answered already |
01:23 |
pete_rizzo_ |
That's fair enough (and probably true). I guess what I'm somewhat confused about is where they diverge (and why). I've now read Trilemma and MPOE-PR Bitcoin Talk archives linearly |
01:23 |
pete_rizzo_ |
So, I guess I've sorted out that Trilemma and B-A split here: http://trilema.com/2016/the-lordship-list-third-year-on-trilema-this-time/?b=recall%20the%20s&e=%20the#selection-95.1-95.48 |
01:23 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: the #t log encompasses all eras incl. #b-a |
01:23 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-07 13:55:52 asciilifeform: crib sheet: 'eta 0' -- above; 'era 1' - #b-a; 'era 2' -- trilemic period when phf had the only reliable logger; 'era 3' -- all fleanode log post-dating 2 (and to present day); 'era 4' -- dulapnet. |
01:27 |
pete_rizzo_ |
That's helpful thanks. I'm not quite sure I understand what the 'Era 1' is... Would that be bitcoin-otc, predating bitcoin-assets? |
01:28 |
pete_rizzo_ |
Sorry 'Era 0' |
01:28 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: correct |
01:31 |
pete_rizzo_ |
Ok. So, just trying something out... |
01:32 |
pete_rizzo_ |
MP has these early blogs with episodes of his Bitcoin-OTC chats (http://trilema.com/2011/fetele-bitcoin-ului-episodul-i/#selection-237.0-319.4 |
01:32 |
pete_rizzo_ |
). So, i should be able to just change the date on the above log link to 10-12-2011 and it will pull that log? |
01:36 |
pete_rizzo_ |
I guess let me know if I'm thinking about that wrong.. |
01:36 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: starts in april of '13. loox like era0 not imported yet |
01:36 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2013-04-25 pgp3: just looked at chart... shit... a couple hours can be an eternity in bitcoin land... |
01:39 |
pete_rizzo_ |
I see. I'd be interested I guess in the early B-A logs... According to MP's accounting on Trilemma that starts on APRIL 2, 2012, but I know also that who created that channel was the subject of some later dispute |
01:40 |
asciilifeform |
phf's era0 starts here |
01:40 |
asciilifeform |
(13 apr 2012) |
01:40 |
* |
asciilifeform was dead certain he had imported era0. apparently not, and only era1 atm. gotta fill it in. |
01:41 |
pete_rizzo_ |
Glad that was useful then :) |
01:41 |
asciilifeform |
fwiw asciilifeform had no part in era0 at all. |
01:41 |
asciilifeform |
(nor found the goings-on there of much interest) |
01:42 |
pete_rizzo_ |
Well I guess this at least gives you an idea of how i'm trying to go through the logs and that I do have some rough understanding of the timeline in order |
01:42 |
asciilifeform |
aha |
01:43 |
asciilifeform |
iirc the only fella who lived in era0 currently tuned in is kakobrekla (and no idea whether actually following in realtime) |
01:43 |
asciilifeform |
conceivably he could answer q's re the period. |
01:44 |
asciilifeform |
( unless i'm mistaken and punkman also was there ) |
01:45 |
pete_rizzo_ |
Since it's a bit late here, I guess the other question I'll broach is it's hard to get any semblance of tone from the Trilema blog... which by that I mean to say, since MP was prone to aggrandizement how seriously any of the events in the timeline I've sorted out. So, like a basic question I would have, that i'm not sure that the logs could answer, |
01:45 |
pete_rizzo_ |
is ... how seriously the Lordship list was taken and like whether you guys thought it was a fun thing or a VERY serious thing. Which i admit is a badly phrased question, but hopefully sympathetic on a human level |
01:47 |
pete_rizzo_ |
Anyway, I hope I haven't intruded too much for now. (And sorry I'm bad at IRC) |
01:47 |
asciilifeform |
( select t from loglines where speaker='punkman' order by t limit 1; >> 2014-01-15 12:35:06 . but again that's in mine, and turns out i don't have era0. ) |
01:47 |
asciilifeform |
btw pete_rizzo_ you can grab a copy of the db (link at bottom of log pg) for yourself. |
01:48 |
asciilifeform |
it's updated hourly. |
01:48 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: re lordship list -- can't speak for others, but asciilifeform took entirely seriously. |
01:51 |
asciilifeform |
e.g. asciilifeform spent large sums, used ~100% of his free time for years ; bingoboingo moved to uruguay when called upon by mp to do so ; various other folx similarly ( in late era 3, one fella went on fruitless expedition to qatar.. ) |
01:53 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: dunno how long you've been lurking/eating logs; for instance whether you're aware of the pizarro story. |
01:53 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-08 11:59:24 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: having trouble locating the thread on demise of pizarro isp; more specifically the "why" and the "how" |
01:54 |
asciilifeform |
so, depending what you think means 'serious' -- quite a few people were entirely serious. |
01:54 |
asciilifeform |
the noobs for whom 'was evening's entertainment' tended to last just that evening or 2. |
01:57 |
asciilifeform |
7+yrs of daily work will not fit in any kind of sound bite. so ideally pete_rizzo_ did not come for 'sound bite' but has very specific q's; then possibly asciilifeform et al can help. |
01:58 |
pete_rizzo_ |
how long I've been lurking... tough to say. I'm pretty sure the first thing I read from the group was The Hard Fork Missile Crisis by @thestringpuller. (Which is still one of the greatest bitcoin articles I've read). From there, I followed the Trilema blog and Qntra, but was never deep into the logs. In 2019 I read The Bitcoin Standard, realized it |
01:58 |
pete_rizzo_ |
was basically all based on MP and BA and went back and read Trilema, Stringpuller's blog and Dushenski's blog |
01:58 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: feel free to leave questions in the log, and then come back , i'ma have to get up shortly |
01:59 |
pete_rizzo_ |
sounds good. Yes, I'll be here for a bit. If y'all haven't read the history articles I've been putting together they are all told in the present tense of the time, so there's no, here's what so and so said years later... |
01:59 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: btw all of qntra is mirrored here. |
02:00 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: can you link plz to your articles here ? |
02:01 |
pete_rizzo_ |
Sure thing |
02:01 |
pete_rizzo_ |
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/the-battle-for-p2sh-the-untold-story-of-the-first-bitcoin-war |
02:02 |
pete_rizzo_ |
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/what-happened-when-bitcoin-creator-satoshi-nakamoto-disappeared |
02:02 |
pete_rizzo_ |
The first one is about the P2SH soft fork, the second one is about the Satoshi/Gavin transition |
02:02 |
asciilifeform |
a, so far seems to be about the forum people strictly. |
02:03 |
* |
asciilifeform will bbl |
| |
~ 17 minutes ~ |
02:21 |
bingoboingo |
vex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SacHyFb_j1o |
02:25 |
shinohai |
^ the girls listen to this shit xD |
| |
~ 49 minutes ~ |
03:15 |
bingoboingo |
shinohai Their friends all had at least one Insta story featuring Bzrp #36 around the new year? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OkiUUU3Odw |
| |
↖ |
03:28 |
verisimilitude |
Well, my chording journey will end soon, for now. |
03:28 |
verisimilitude |
I've ordered a buckling spring keyboard, and will begin using that, to compare. I'll have more details in an article. |
| |
~ 7 hours 19 minutes ~ |
10:47 |
punkman |
asciilifeform: is it possible to view log search in chronological order? |
| |
↖ ↖ |
10:48 |
punkman |
(or to have last page button) |
10:51 |
punkman |
even by end of 2014 some called it a "cult" http://www.contravex.com/2014/11/04/lets-cut-to-the-chase-is-la-serenissima-a-cult/ |
| |
↖ |
10:52 |
punkman |
there was a declaration of independence, which I can't find right now |
10:53 |
punkman |
bitcoin grew, #b-a grew, the cult grew, there was business happening, good times |
10:57 |
punkman |
then there was the bitbet debacle, and #trilema split with a brand new WoT, a lot of people fucked off, a new era for the cult began |
11:00 |
punkman |
and when I say cult, I tend to agree with asciilifeform's http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-01-18#1029526 |
11:00 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-01-18 15:06:05 asciilifeform: on this subj, and iirc asciilifeform addressed it before many times -- the reason why will NOT respect whiners about 'cults' -- is that there is NOT in fact such a thing as 'not being in a cult'. the saeculum is ALSO equally a cult. and an especially grotesque one |
| |
~ 27 minutes ~ |
11:28 |
punkman |
pete_rizzo: good example of how "lordship" was perceived, nubbins objection to being removed from third lordship list |
11:28 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2016-02-09 nubbins`: as a lord of bitcoin, tmsr~, cognizant of the responsibilities that my words thusly carry, i hereby solemnly rebuke any attempt to strip me of my lordship. |
| |
~ 1 hours 49 minutes ~ |
13:17 |
signpost |
http://deedbot.org/deed-2014-11-09-15-30-13.txt |
13:18 |
signpost |
first one I found |
13:19 |
signpost |
pete_rizzo_: I think you'll find varying views on *what* it was serious about, but yes, serious. |
13:21 |
signpost |
I was serious about the republic of free, thinking persons. much less so the "mp is god-king". |
13:21 |
signpost |
nor was it lost on me that the former and latter were in dissonance. |
| |
~ 51 minutes ~ |
14:12 |
pete_rizzo_ |
That makes sense @signpost. I wasn't asking that as a slight. I was more just trying to point out, reading older text, it's hard to appreciate tone and how something was perceived. So, it helps when looking at older events to have that gut check. I believe I understand the conceptual framework underlying B-A and hope it's obvious that is what i'm |
14:12 |
pete_rizzo_ |
interested in understanding in greater detail (as well as its impacts on bitcoin at large) |
14:13 |
pete_rizzo_ |
It's doubly-so with MP just because his writing style was ... well his writing style |
14:15 |
signpost |
yep no slight taken. |
| |
~ 46 minutes ~ |
15:02 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-31#1054944 << not currently, but it'd be trivial to add this reverse-gear |
15:02 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-31 06:43:09 punkman: asciilifeform: is it possible to view log search in chronological order? |
| |
~ 26 minutes ~ |
15:28 |
asciilifeform |
$ticker btc usd |
15:28 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $47314.12 |
15:28 |
asciilifeform |
!w poll |
15:28 |
watchglass |
Polling 17 nodes... |
15:28 |
watchglass |
185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect! |
15:28 |
watchglass |
84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect! |
15:28 |
watchglass |
185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect! |
15:28 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=698427 |
15:28 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=698427 |
15:28 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.081s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698427 |
15:28 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.109s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698427 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
15:28 |
watchglass |
71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.130s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698427 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
15:28 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=698427 (Operator: whaack) |
15:28 |
watchglass |
54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.220s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698427 |
15:28 |
watchglass |
143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.234s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698427 |
15:28 |
watchglass |
208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.220s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698427 |
15:29 |
watchglass |
54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.253s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698427 |
15:29 |
watchglass |
213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.347s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698427 |
15:29 |
watchglass |
103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.659s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=698427 |
15:29 |
watchglass |
176.9.59.199:8333 : (static.199.59.9.176.clients.your-server.de) Alive: (0.497s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=443359 (Operator: jurov) |
15:30 |
watchglass |
192.151.158.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.) |
| |
~ 54 minutes ~ |
16:25 |
punkman |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-31#1054944 << I posted a bunch of lines before this, seem to have disappeared |
16:25 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-31 06:43:09 punkman: asciilifeform: is it possible to view log search in chronological order? |
16:25 |
punkman |
weird, guess it was a client problem |
16:26 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: disconnected |
16:26 |
asciilifeform |
(unlike fleanode, asciilifeform doesn't have the ircd configured for aggressively tossing people who aint PONGing when it PINGs. the flip side of this is that sometimes you'll be talking into /dev/null ) |
16:26 |
busybot |
(unlike fleanode, asciilifeform doesn't have the ircd configured for aggressively tossing people who aint PONGing when it PONGs. the flip side of this is that sometimes you'll be talking into /dev/null ) |
16:27 |
asciilifeform |
oh hm shinohai how come this ln^ triggered the bot ? |
16:27 |
asciilifeform |
*PINGs |
16:27 |
busybot |
*PONGs |
16:27 |
asciilifeform |
lol that'd be why |
16:27 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai plz fix when you get a chance |
16:27 |
shinohai |
ahahaha |
16:28 |
shinohai |
o7 |
16:28 |
punkman |
pete_rizzo_: here's what I wrote to you http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=st-X |
16:31 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: do me a favour plz and paste'em in for permalog |
16:31 |
asciilifeform |
(will make it easier for rizzo to reply also) |
16:31 |
punkman |
<punkman> pete_rizzo: at some point #b-a was getting popular, and to stop randoms from spamming, a system was introduced, where if you had a rating from "assbot" on bitcoin-otc WoT, you could talk in the channel. |
16:31 |
punkman |
<punkman> mp observed that "This creates a de facto aristocracy" , which a few months later, became the first lordship list |
16:32 |
punkman |
<punkman> you could say it started off as a tongue-in-cheek thing. before the first list, pretty much anyone that was regularly active in the channel, was rated by assbot. |
16:32 |
punkman |
<punkman> and yes we joked about it, it was about as serious as those "buy a lord title from scotland" ads that have been around the internet for ages |
16:32 |
punkman |
<punkman> however, the "Web of Trust" was a serious thing. we thought reputation was important, in contrast to all the clowns involved with bitcoin, who thought they could fuck up and then come back 6 months later and nobody would remember |
16:32 |
punkman |
<punkman> at some point there was an incident with bitcoin-otc bot, and then the WoT split, and a new separate WoT was created, administered by kakobrekla/assbot |
| |
↖ |
16:32 |
punkman |
<punkman> so: we have de facto aristocracy, let's call it a lordship, we have a lordship, the lords need a republic! Thus, B,TMSR (Bitcoin, the most serene republic) / La Serenissima or just "the republic" was born. |
16:32 |
punkman |
<punkman> http://trilema.com/2016/cia-factbook-the-most-serene-republic/#footnote_0_68314 |
16:33 |
pete_rizzo_ |
thanks both |
16:38 |
punkman |
from my pov, there wasn't a lot of business happening after 2017 and the move to #trilema, so I was much less interested |
16:39 |
punkman |
there was mainly asciilifeform's useful work, some things supposedly happening with the Eulora game, the failed ISP |
16:39 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: i suppose you weren't interested in e.g. FG & the isp escapades ? |
16:40 |
punkman |
asciilifeform work is very interesting, the failed ISP a bit meh |
16:45 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: dunno whether you got to the point, in your log readings, where we manufactured hardware |
| |
~ 25 minutes ~ |
17:10 |
signpost |
yep, asciilifeform's vision for computing has to be credited for many of the folks that showed up, and much that got done. |
| |
~ 20 minutes ~ |
17:31 |
pete_rizzo_ |
also what happened to Pete Dushenkshi: http://www.contravex.com/2021/08/08/the-stickiness-of-culture/ |
17:34 |
pete_rizzo_ |
maybe i missed it but post above seems odd in the vein of his past writings |
17:35 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: fella was a loud, empty drum of a man from day 1 imho |
17:35 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-04-20 16:49:37 asciilifeform: shinohai: and since we're on subj, i'm not the least bit surprised that pete d. is huffing ether. |
17:36 |
pete_rizzo_ |
Hm. I see. So he mirrored and wrote interesting things that played around with presenting the values of the group, but largely parroting it seems? |
17:37 |
pete_rizzo_ |
Idk why that seems surprising, but i guess another example of how reading blogs gives a flat impression |
17:37 |
asciilifeform |
entirely parroting. (and didn't deny it) |
17:38 |
pete_rizzo_ |
how do you get from here: https://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/bitcoin-killer-of-nietzschean-nihilism/ to trading NFT frogs and being entitled about it |
17:39 |
pete_rizzo_ |
i mean if you want to make money on teh bubble til the end of the year, have at it, but there's no morality in it |
17:39 |
asciilifeform |
was a cardboard man, with cardboard soul, but then inherited a truckload of dough and loaded up on rolexes and similar junk, 'collectible art', etc. and began to prattle about 'financial' this and that |
17:41 |
asciilifeform |
meticulously collected other, more well-known lottery winners' prattles and in fact through that process latched onto mp. |
17:41 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-02-12 20:16:13 asciilifeform: there are few things on satan's green earth more noxious than a lottery winner cum judas goat 'teaching success'. |
17:44 |
pete_rizzo_ |
" I can assure you that someone like myself who tends to fall down rabbit holes now and again is perfectly capable of switching steeds when a faster horse comes along, and NFTs have waaaaay more potential for cultural impact and investment upside than Bitcoin at this point." |
17:44 |
pete_rizzo_ |
This is a literal quote from this person lol |
17:44 |
asciilifeform |
was always, imho , this. |
17:45 |
pete_rizzo_ |
hm. good to know i guess |
17:45 |
pete_rizzo_ |
Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/f88b4020685398682eb016bb1c78eb50/pasted.txt |
| |
↖ |
17:45 |
pete_rizzo_ |
I replied. still confusing |
17:46 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: consider a lulzy pete_d incident: in '17, he buys a FG, but unable to get it going, largely because he had purchased it simply as 'in-group signal' i suspect. in '19 turned his unit into a 'modern art' installation. |
| |
↖ |
17:48 |
asciilifeform |
( in between, he had apparently attempted, in secret, to make a reseller shop for FG, with 0 stock -- simply pass-through -- with the only value proposition apparently being a ~changed name~ ! ) |
17:48 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2017-04-27 mircea_popescu: you may think eg pete_dushenski is a little strange for desiring nothing other than you know, making a new website where to retell fuckgoats shop page "in his own words". but who does anything else, on that sad continent ? where ? when ? |
17:50 |
asciilifeform |
imho pete_d was a stereotypical extrovert, the kind who 'all about the personalities' and thinks of technical details as irrelevant fluff 'for lesser mortals' to bother with. while was in mp's darktriad orbit -- pushed (what he thought of as) bitcoinism. after expulsion -- went to next, in his mind's eye, 'strong horse'. and so still today. |
17:52 |
pete_rizzo_ |
@asciilifeform do you have the raw URL for the '17 blog. It seems like it's gone and now redirects |
17:54 |
asciilifeform |
pete's ? loads fine here |
17:55 |
asciilifeform |
https://archive.is/B3NQV and https://archive.is/XAQ56 if for some reason you can't see the original |
17:57 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-31#1055033 << lemme paste, for permalog : |
17:57 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-31 13:40:47 pete_rizzo_: Uploaded file: https://uploads.kiwiirc.com/files/f88b4020685398682eb016bb1c78eb50/pasted.txt |
17:57 |
asciilifeform |
'The points that you put forth here are largely confusing to me reading your past work also. The argument you advanced, so far as I understand it, was that Bitcoin makes money an inflexible mathematical law, and that the cause of advancing it over alternatives is a moral one owing to how this conflicts with the current make-up of global power structures. ' |
17:57 |
asciilifeform |
'It does seem rather odd given that Bitcoin has now popularly aligned with the ideas you previously helped popularize that you no longer support those views. So, naturally, I suppose I'm curious to understand why. ' |
17:57 |
signpost |
there are a couple archetypes of failed idiots that showed up. this one's the "I'm ahead of the curve" larper. |
17:57 |
asciilifeform |
( pete_rizzo_ ) |
17:57 |
signpost |
see also: I'm transgressive! and later "daddy hurt me" varieties. |
17:58 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: the key to the riddle, such as it is, is that some people are attracted to 'commotion' rather than technical merit of e.g. bitcoin. |
17:58 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-02-04 13:46:08 asciilifeform: mp was talented mountebank, a la barnum, and in #t maintained an addictive, to many folx, atmosphere of 'движуха' (untranslatable, but roughly 'errything in motion!!', 'happening!') |
17:58 |
asciilifeform |
for them, where 'commotion', there -- 'things are happening', 'let's be there' |
17:59 |
asciilifeform |
shitcoin (e.g. eth) pushers specialize concretely in creating this kind of atmosphere. the pete_d's follow like moths into light bulb. |
18:00 |
signpost |
probably another aspect worth mentioning. "this is not my real life". |
18:00 |
signpost |
I see a lot of escapist-porn in the old logs. |
18:01 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: imho is an occupational hazard of riding in what seems a 'to the moon!'(tm)(r) lift |
18:01 |
signpost |
not excluding myself by any means. |
18:02 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: it aint always coupled with a belief that 'one day, My Real Life Will Start' |
18:02 |
signpost |
the "real" away from the keyboard is still a slow-motion soviet-style collapse |
18:02 |
asciilifeform |
(for asciilifeform for instance was and is not. comfortable w/ the knowledge that not errybody gets 'a real life') |
18:03 |
* |
signpost still thinks the tech stack itself has merit, if probably late by now. |
| |
~ 19 minutes ~ |
18:22 |
* |
asciilifeform realizes that the earlier sentence fails parity check. s/.../asciilifeform was not and is not/. |
18:26 |
* |
punkman would gamble on cheap NFTs, but not about to pay $300 in fees to buy $50 item |
18:26 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: is there a sudden shortage of what to gamble on , that you'd consider such a thing ? |
18:26 |
asciilifeform |
pretty sure various 'satoshi dice' clones still exist. |
18:26 |
asciilifeform |
can gamble all you like there |
18:28 |
punkman |
I like some of the art, some of them come with physical item, etc |
18:28 |
thestringpuller |
did pete_d go full mEth head? |
18:29 |
asciilifeform |
thestringpuller: long ago |
18:29 |
thestringpuller |
Hilarious that he couldn't get the FG working and put it in an art piece and tried to sell it. |
18:29 |
thestringpuller |
for 5k |
18:29 |
asciilifeform |
thestringpuller: once you understand that he was buying 'religious' artifact, it makes 'over9000x' more sense |
18:30 |
thestringpuller |
then again I only used mine for generating private btc keys - nothing fancy by any means |
18:30 |
thestringpuller |
well the RNG to generate teh keys |
18:31 |
signpost |
I wager the dude had some mp hats and suits, or w/e he thought was the equiv. |
18:31 |
signpost |
note the rolex post that links back to FG post. |
18:31 |
asciilifeform |
thestringpuller: so you actually used the microscope as microscope, rather than hammer. pete_d -- as hammer. |
18:32 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: aha. imho fella was entirely consistent, in fact, under the surface. |
18:32 |
thestringpuller |
i mean that's like saying "here is electon microscope" and I used it for say, looking at 10th grade biology slides for class project |
18:32 |
asciilifeform |
is what most microscopes in the world used for, what of it. |
18:33 |
signpost |
asciilifeform: from where I sit the only difference between mp and pete is former had more cash, and a better education. |
18:33 |
asciilifeform |
schooling is perfectly legit. and in point of fact asciilifeform's 'beef' vs pete_d isn't that he 'misused FG' or somesuch. but simply that 'his lights were on, but no one was home' |
18:33 |
thestringpuller |
just saying, wasn't doing anything ground breaking with the ground breaking microscope |
18:33 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: entirely possib |
18:33 |
* |
signpost was an uneducated derp himself, until he noticed upon reading the classics that mp was filing off serials. |
18:34 |
signpost |
check it out, it's aristotle with more cock references |
| |
↖ |
18:34 |
asciilifeform |
aaha |
18:34 |
thestringpuller |
but I guess "fundamentals" are good to learn regardless |
18:34 |
signpost |
heidegger, nietzsche, etc etc |
18:34 |
asciilifeform |
thestringpuller: my point was that you at least realized that the thing is to look through rather than pound nails or stun fish. |
18:35 |
signpost |
which, pete_rizzo_, please avoid beatification of the guy. |
18:35 |
thestringpuller |
what is beatification? |
18:36 |
punkman |
friend was over for vacation, he would buy as many rolexes as they'd sell him (from specific set of models) to resell back home. he went to jewelry/watch shop, in swimsuite/flip-flops. and they would not sell any to him. |
18:36 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: lol, did they say wainot ? thought his money was fake ? |
18:36 |
signpost |
thestringpuller: retroactive purification by church, typically in the context of a pope declaring somebody (after death) was worthy of sainthood. |
18:37 |
punkman |
could be the looking like a bum, or he has theory about shops refusing to sell to known resellers |
18:40 |
punkman |
whole thing sounded like the upscale version of "limited edition plastic sneakers" |
18:40 |
thestringpuller |
signpost: the line "die hero or live long enough to become villain" comes to mind, although not entirely applicable |
18:41 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: all veblenisms imho largely interchangeable and follow same dynamics. |
18:41 |
asciilifeform |
thestringpuller: it's bullshit tho |
18:41 |
thestringpuller |
asciilifeform: never walked into a ferrari dealership in sandles and shorts? |
18:42 |
signpost |
heh, batman quote?!? |
18:42 |
thestringpuller |
signpost: if you saw my comic collection and how much I've paid my friend organizing it, you'd wonder why I don't use more of them XD |
18:42 |
* |
signpost chortles |
18:42 |
asciilifeform |
thestringpuller: did walk in (long walk in the sun and it had air conditioning..) and the salesfolx were immediately 'lemme show you xyz' |
18:42 |
thestringpuller |
basement basically a local comic shop now |
18:43 |
signpost |
if mp was doing anything in bitcoin, he'd have funded a few companies in the wot. |
18:43 |
signpost |
pretty much end of story. |
18:43 |
shinohai |
"Alfred, I had that dream again" .... "It's ok Sir, I'll wash the sheets again no problem!" |
18:43 |
thestringpuller |
asciilifeform: last time I tried they wouldn't even let me get in the car let alone test drive |
18:43 |
thestringpuller |
signpost: i remember he tried to buy a stake in XotikaTV but thickasthieves declined the offer |
18:44 |
signpost |
implication isn't it had to be me, either. the guy to fund was asciilifeform, and not with worthless mpex notional paper. |
18:44 |
asciilifeform |
thestringpuller: i'd guess you tried in 1972 or similar, when 'fancy auto' was still a 'for rockefellers' item rather than 'for plebes willing to max out creditcard' |
18:44 |
shinohai |
I was gonna outright make a deal to buy Xotika but couldn't get the guy to talk much about it. |
18:44 |
signpost |
xotika was another good business. look at the onlyfans shit now. |
18:44 |
signpost |
*potentially good business |
18:44 |
thestringpuller |
asciilifeform: it's probably cause I looked homeless at the time and not like a reputable member of society |
18:45 |
thestringpuller |
living too comfortably makes you ridiculously lazy |
18:45 |
signpost |
not all rich are lazy. |
18:45 |
signpost |
there are folks funding companies in this space. |
18:45 |
thestringpuller |
that's why i'm glad I wasn't rich in my 20s i'd probably have heart failure in my 30s |
18:45 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: funnily enuff (and hm i'm quite certain we had this thread.. but can't seem to excavate) 'not give people coin' was 1 of the mpisms that actually made sense to asciilifeform . |
18:45 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-06-29 15:58:20 asciilifeform: thimbronion: actually this part always made sense to asciilifeform . mp did not want to be surrounded with (what called) 'jobsworths'. wanted fanatics strictly. |
18:46 |
signpost |
juche business only then? |
18:46 |
signpost |
this isn't how it's done. |
18:46 |
asciilifeform |
tho in point of fact he did have salaried devs -- diana for instance. |
18:46 |
signpost |
right. |
18:46 |
signpost |
sure, don't give founders coin. give the company coin. |
18:46 |
thestringpuller |
signpost: i can't find a reason for why xotika shut down, it just vanished one day like some Atlas Shrugged shit |
18:46 |
signpost |
thestringpuller: imho the whole world needs the collapse we're headed for to buck up. |
18:47 |
signpost |
nobody's going to john galt us out of the death-terrified stupor. |
18:47 |
punkman |
there was also a certain lack of a business model that didn't involve shouting at all potential customers "go read 6 months log!!" |
18:47 |
thestringpuller |
Cause it was entirely closed loop when they released their statements. Hosting, paying the cam girls, etc. Everything 100% coin. |
18:47 |
signpost |
punkman: indeed. |
18:48 |
signpost |
thestringpuller: yep, again, there was *at least* an onlyfans-sized opportunity in there. |
18:48 |
thestringpuller |
Have no idea why it's not here still today? Maybe threats from the spooks? |
18:48 |
signpost |
the spooks sell drugs. they don't shut this kind of thing down. |
18:48 |
thestringpuller |
It did shutdown around the time of the pornhub thing with the sex trafficking. |
18:48 |
signpost |
sloth is right there as ample explanation. |
18:48 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: re upstack -- mp did 'give company coin'. the catch was that at no point was 'company' an entity distinct from his own whims. |
18:49 |
asciilifeform |
so only ever 'gave' coin in the sense of moving from own left pocket to right. |
18:49 |
thestringpuller |
ah yes. a game company that doesn't make games. |
18:49 |
thestringpuller |
it makes *check notes* server side cryptography for every client call |
18:49 |
signpost |
if he was actually a billionaire in the 1k bubble he had enough money to single-handedly build the entire bitcoin economy in the 20k bubble. |
18:49 |
asciilifeform |
thestringpuller: all mp companies actually were to make just one product; errything else -- incidental. |
18:49 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-25 12:56:02 asciilifeform: and secondarily, that what 'we' were doing primarily was stroking a maniac's ego, and that anything else was done -- strictly incidental byproduct. and at all times maniac was struggling to optimize for 'moar product, less byproduct'. |
18:49 |
punkman |
even rpietila had more playable game than minigame |
18:49 |
signpost |
fuck him, on those grounds. |
18:50 |
thestringpuller |
punkman: precisely; and when i logged into eulora it was harder to play than Eve, which is a nope from me dawg. |
18:50 |
signpost |
dorsey is creating where he got fat and drank. how bout that? |
18:51 |
thestringpuller |
i will spend my time self harming playing League of Legends instead |
18:51 |
signpost |
lol |
18:52 |
thestringpuller |
I don't know how to evaluate Dorsey's actions. All I know is the eth maxi's were hella mad when he said "he wasn't interested in ethereum" |
18:52 |
asciilifeform |
who's dorsey? |
18:52 |
shinohai |
The twatter guy |
18:53 |
thestringpuller |
Jack Dorsey the founder of twitter and square right signpost? I think we are talking about same person |
18:53 |
signpost |
correct |
18:53 |
pete_rizzo_ |
yes |
18:53 |
asciilifeform |
lemme guess, has own shitcoin? |
18:53 |
signpost |
nope. building on bitcoin. |
18:53 |
thestringpuller |
nah wants to integrate bitcoin into twitter |
18:53 |
pete_rizzo_ |
bitcoin only so far |
18:53 |
asciilifeform |
lol why not also into ferrari. and international mars station. |
18:53 |
thestringpuller |
and eth maxis were mad he wouldn't integrate nfts |
18:53 |
signpost |
and before we dur-hur about not really bitcoin, it's not the point. |
18:53 |
signpost |
the only people building anywhere near btc are dorsies, is the point. |
18:54 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: well by that token karpeles was building 'even nearer' btc |
18:54 |
thestringpuller |
the liability of not kowtowing to KYC is too high these days; too many people going to jail |
18:54 |
asciilifeform |
(unless i'm missing some detail?) |
18:54 |
signpost |
you are. the point is nobody is building *on* btc. |
18:55 |
asciilifeform |
thestringpuller: doesn't make a lick of diff. if you're 'kyc' -- you're simply working low wage job for usg. |
18:55 |
signpost |
they're bolting the empire to a fetish-of. |
18:55 |
asciilifeform |
aha |
18:56 |
signpost |
two possibilites if MP did not bother to build. 1) his "billionaire" status was the total notional value on MPEX times the exch rate, like any fractional reserve scam, or 2) worst person ever to live, in terms of opportunity vs execution. |
18:56 |
thestringpuller |
asciilifeform: irony that my college drug dealers have much more financial freedom... |
18:56 |
thestringpuller |
or maybe not ironic at all |
18:56 |
mats |
afaict he has no plans to build a permissioned bitcoin with aml kyc |
18:56 |
asciilifeform |
can say asciilifeform is thick, but not clear to him that ' all worthwhile things to be built on.' no one builds 'on' e.g. spoons, but spoons still useful. |
18:56 |
signpost |
the idea that there were no moves available to someone with 1mil actual BTC is not conceivable. |
18:57 |
thestringpuller |
asciilifeform: but i thought your main criticism is that the bedrock foundations are as flimsy as cardboard |
| |
↖ |
18:57 |
pete_rizzo_ |
I'm a bit confused. He helped list a lot of early companies on MPEX, no? Assuming he was a shareholder in many? |
18:57 |
shinohai |
His latest idea is to build a "decentralized" exchange. |
18:57 |
pete_rizzo_ |
I've gone back through the logs and don't understand the argument that MPEX didn't support the bitcoin ecosystem of the day. It seems like the only viable ecosystem of non-VC bitcoin businesses |
18:57 |
thestringpuller |
pete_rizzo_: all those companies folded except S.MG which technically still exists with 8k BTC equity; or maybe never existed at all |
18:58 |
signpost |
pete_rizzo_: yeah, he listed a few company NFTs on a scam exchange most of us didn't use, and those who did apparently were exit scammed. |
18:58 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: lulzy 'fried ice' |
18:58 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-10 12:46:11 asciilifeform: punkman: similarly here; you can call e.g. a gox 'decentralized'; doesn't make it so (or for that matter make 'decentralized gox' anything other than a joke, conceptually) |
18:58 |
signpost |
see logs for mats' episode of this. |
18:58 |
pete_rizzo_ |
Right, but a lot were shut down due to regulatory pressures no? |
18:58 |
thestringpuller |
S.DICE was probably the most successful and best MPEx IPO and Voorhees got spooked and delisted it. |
18:59 |
mats |
mpex is an unregistered exchange, theres no such thing as regulatory pressure |
18:59 |
thestringpuller |
everything else folded. Bitbet due to "management issues". S.WOL due to lack of betting volume, S.MPOE because I guess MP said "we were too stupid to trade options" |
18:59 |
pete_rizzo_ |
Right. It just seems like there was a period of BTC company building that was defined by MPEX, GLBSE and Gox, and of those, MPEX was at least the only one that never collapsed/lost money |
18:59 |
mats |
yes |
19:00 |
pete_rizzo_ |
I think you would have to look at it as a product of the time. GLBSE was much worse, so was Gox. |
19:00 |
thestringpuller |
S.QNTR was decent, but couldn't produce revenue. |
19:00 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: beg to differ. in may of '20 mp straight out robbed jurov and all of his 'coinbr' users. |
19:00 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-05-11 04:53:33 jurov: to make matters clear from my side: "withdrawals are possible except for people who ask" === "mpex is in default and thus coinbr too" |
19:00 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. went fullbore gox |
19:00 |
thestringpuller |
Oh yea and if you happened to have money on MPEx before after 2020 you were goxxed |
19:00 |
signpost |
correct, which suggests to me the thing didn't even have enough to cover what was in the notional piggy. |
19:01 |
shinohai |
I got 20K shares in S.MG left if anyone wants to buy >.> |
19:01 |
thestringpuller |
I remember mod6 saying he was worried MP ran off with his money and he had an MPEx account and that account was anonymous |
19:01 |
pete_rizzo_ |
Hm. I wasn't aware of the withdrawal problems on MPEX. But I didn't follow it to the point where it shut down. Are there references for when MPEX shut down? |
| |
↖ |
19:01 |
thestringpuller |
So I guess he lived long enough to become villain signpost ;) |
19:02 |
* |
signpost recalls a much earlier sfyl which lost somebody significant btc, but won't mention who unless he feels like it. |
19:02 |
signpost |
"oops lol this gpg key is 'expired'" episode. |
19:02 |
thestringpuller |
pete_rizzo_: I will let asciilifeform the oracle of logs do the honors of digging up the thread, since he seems to be able to navigate them as a second nature |
19:03 |
thestringpuller |
signpost: was that during the ROTA era? or was that with Wences |
19:03 |
asciilifeform |
thestringpuller: fwiw mp ~personally~ [https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/19NNyVDVqco5PRVZRqt9i7ECAP6CuyLZu4] wasn't the least bit broke when exited the stage. |
19:04 |
signpost |
sure, rich. I'm shitting on the "billionaire" thing. |
19:04 |
asciilifeform |
but mpex easily could've been, being pyramid in the style of mavrodi's MMM. |
19:04 |
thestringpuller |
asciilifeform: I don't doubt he had money, but the consequence of his actions are indistinguishable from karpeles |
19:04 |
thestringpuller |
jurov one of the most trusted if not most trusted bitcoin broker getting defrauded? |
19:04 |
asciilifeform |
thestringpuller: more pretensions than karpeles. and the latter did not create anything like the same calibre of gluetrap. |
19:05 |
thestringpuller |
jurov never lost a single satoshi of his customer's money |
19:05 |
signpost |
$45mil is not enough to be single-man VC fund and still live well off one's dividends. |
19:05 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: btw have you read asciilifeform's 2013 review of mpex ? imho pertinent. |
19:06 |
thestringpuller |
the prescient line at the end hits different now |
19:06 |
shinohai |
Agreed, jurov_ always was A++ person to do business with. |
19:07 |
pete_rizzo_ |
No. Here's that blockchain.info website on the wayback machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20191002091421/https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/19NNyVDVqco5PRVZRqt9i7ECAP6CuyLZu4 |
19:07 |
pete_rizzo_ |
The other link doesn't work for me |
19:07 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: are you in china or similar shithole where most www blocked ? |
19:07 |
asciilifeform |
this seems to be not first 'can't load' |
19:07 |
pete_rizzo_ |
i'm in the US |
19:08 |
asciilifeform |
odd |
19:08 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: what do you get as errorcoad? |
19:08 |
asciilifeform |
(in either case) |
19:08 |
signpost |
pete_rizzo_'s interdicted for consorting with problematic peoples |
19:08 |
asciilifeform |
lol |
19:09 |
shinohai |
I suspect pete_rizzo_ 's irc client adds a `]` to the end of link because of the way links work here. |
19:09 |
asciilifeform |
oh hm |
19:10 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_ : was it ^ ? |
19:10 |
pete_rizzo_ |
yup |
19:10 |
pete_rizzo_ |
added the bracket |
19:11 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-31#1055203 << never 'officially' shut down in point of fact. simply started 'confiscating' funds of people mp disapproved of. first mike_c, then jurov and his customers . |
19:11 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-31 14:57:06 pete_rizzo_: Hm. I wasn't aware of the withdrawal problems on MPEX. But I didn't follow it to the point where it shut down. Are there references for when MPEX shut down? |
19:11 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2019-12-16 mike_c: I pulled a MPEX statement in november, but post-dividend I have not been able to (getting the 'Unrecognized signature. Please email your public key first.') |
19:12 |
asciilifeform |
( see also ) |
19:12 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-05-13 09:48:38 asciilifeform: jurov: be sure to let yer customers know they weren't stolen from, but rather 'condemned to confiscation by the sovereign'. |
19:13 |
shinohai |
I almost forgot that my final S,QNTR shares were lost in that brouhaha, a bingoboingo kindly compensated me for their value (which he did not hafta do, but was gentlemanly nonetheless ). |
19:14 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: above link imho amply illustrates how mp died having thoroughly pissed all over what he had prev. claimed to believe. |
19:15 |
asciilifeform |
( see also ) |
19:15 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-05-13 13:06:15 asciilifeform: and imho, the folx who paid, got what they were paying for : 1000km of blog about 'majesty', 10GB of photos of naked chix eating caviar, etc. ( if they thought they were paying for 'like nasdaq but w/out confiscations', they were morons, it's a perpetuum mobile and there aint no such thing ) |
19:15 |
thestringpuller |
shinohai: dang. i had really high hopes for QNTR but could never seem to find a revenue stream. |
19:15 |
thestringpuller |
but i'm finding most journalism is bank rolled and isn't expected to make any money |
19:16 |
shinohai |
I think Qntra was one of the best Republican ventures at time, I certainly benefited from it immensely, financially and otherwise. |
19:16 |
asciilifeform |
thestringpuller: virtually all 'journalism' is simply advertising. |
19:16 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: i'd've happily continued writing for qntra if still existed. |
19:17 |
thestringpuller |
asciilifeform: although the domain doesn't exist the spirit can live on and [insert other hippie dippy optimism here] |
19:17 |
shinohai |
Same, though strangely when I returned in 2020 after conversing with BB, MP abruptly decides to shutter it. (No surprise) |
19:17 |
asciilifeform |
could still exist, even, if the denoument hadn't taken the wind outta bingo's sails |
19:18 |
thestringpuller |
hmm. making me want to restart it now. |
19:19 |
asciilifeform |
thestringpuller: it'd be rather like restarting, i dunno, 'iskra'. or 'der pimpf.' |
19:19 |
asciilifeform |
the culture is gone. |
19:19 |
* |
shinohai would gladly start writing again if a neo-Qntra existed but at present has only blog to suffice. |
19:20 |
thestringpuller |
asciilifeform: no need to be a dream smasher! |
19:22 |
thestringpuller |
granted the Qntra WP theme was never publicly released |
19:22 |
asciilifeform |
thestringpuller: if you really want it, ask bb nicely, maybe will share |
19:22 |
shinohai |
thestringpuller: y not start *new* enterprise with Qntra-esque news instead? |
19:23 |
asciilifeform |
scoopbot: qntra wasn't simply 'a news www' tho. |
19:23 |
asciilifeform |
grr |
19:23 |
shinohai |
kek |
19:23 |
asciilifeform |
fckig tabcomprlete |
19:23 |
thestringpuller |
top kek |
19:23 |
* |
asciilifeform cycles bolt on kvm |
19:23 |
thestringpuller |
til asciilifeform is human |
19:23 |
asciilifeform |
s/scoopbot/shinohai |
19:24 |
asciilifeform |
thestringpuller: there's prolly 1km+ in logs of asciilifeform elbowing kbd in various ways |
19:25 |
thestringpuller |
asciilifeform: to be fair I thought you were like guy from Snow Crash that is like 70% cyborg and plugged directly into his computer. |
19:25 |
mats |
the heavily disabled asian guy? |
19:25 |
thestringpuller |
mats: knows what's up |
19:26 |
asciilifeform |
thestringpuller: lol |
19:26 |
asciilifeform |
thestringpuller: in actual fact asciilifeform uses e.g. keyboard older than himself |
19:27 |
thestringpuller |
I would too, but a certain someone got mad at all the clickity clack |
19:27 |
asciilifeform |
( and, for instance, the most recently installed machine in the room asciilifeform currently sitting in, is a msdos box ) |
19:29 |
shinohai |
https://static.designboom.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/scorpion-chair-gaming-cluvens-designboom-1800.jpg <<< nah asciilifeform sits in one of these. |
19:29 |
asciilifeform |
lol i remember these ! same people who made 'imperator' |
19:30 |
* |
asciilifeform at one time actually considered to install an 'imperator', lol ; then realized that it'd likely destroy stairway here |
19:36 |
thestringpuller |
https://www.amazon.com/IWR1-IMPERATORWORKS-Gaming-Computer-Monitors/dp/B07BKT53K7 only 4300, may actually get this for the basement which is slowly becoming giant toy room for adults |
19:36 |
asciilifeform |
thestringpuller: if you do -- post about it; i don't presently know anyone who's used one |
19:36 |
signpost |
lol, needs moar grandma's boy. |
19:36 |
signpost |
insufficient number of screens. |
19:37 |
asciilifeform |
iirc there's hooks for 3 |
19:37 |
signpost |
ah! |
19:38 |
* |
asciilifeform traditionally prefers 'mesh' chairs to the leather stuff tho |
19:38 |
asciilifeform |
they don't wear through, more or less, at all. and 'arse breathes' |
19:38 |
mats |
aeron master race |
19:38 |
asciilifeform |
hey, 'cheap & angry' |
19:39 |
asciilifeform |
( foreigners may scatch heads. but in usa actually cheap, as there's ~inexhaustible supply of old ones from defunkt corps ) |
19:39 |
mats |
pff, msrp is like $1300 |
19:39 |
asciilifeform |
mats: no one but megacorp ever pays that stickerprice lol |
19:40 |
asciilifeform |
iirc the 1 i'm currently sitting in was ~300 , bought from the back of a truck (literally) |
19:46 |
asciilifeform |
before this gets lost -- the shit-foundations are trivial, in grand scheme of things, to fix. no 'mars missions' needed, no breakthroughs, simply coupla hundred man-hours. |
| |
↖ |
19:46 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-31 14:52:28 thestringpuller: asciilifeform: but i thought your main criticism is that the bedrock foundations are as flimsy as cardboard |
19:46 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-10-01 15:00:29 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: there's not a thing that'd rise to the level of 'plan'. asciilifeform in particular wrote 3 things: 'nqb', a largely-complete coder/decoder for the formats used in trb; ffa, with which possible to perform the cryptonumerics; and 'cryostat', to implement a o(1) db . |
19:48 |
asciilifeform |
software is shit simply because no incentives for the contrary. |
19:48 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-10-01 19:19:53 asciilifeform: there are (imho -- ~incurable) perverse incentives at work, which ensure that most of extant softs is liquishit, while the good stuff -- you will ~never hear about . |
19:48 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-10-01 19:19:53 asciilifeform: there are (imho -- ~incurable) perverse incentives at work, which ensure that most of extant softs is liquishit, while the good stuff -- you will ~never hear about . |
19:48 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-01-14 15:29:06 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: it only has 'incentive to work' if a) there's competition in the market b) competitors have, potentially, 'moar working' softs |
19:48 |
asciilifeform |
( grr #2 was supposed to be this ) |
19:48 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-12-02 13:45:39 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-12-02#1025708 << it aint about incompetence. e.g. tagged memory architectures existed in 1970s. instead, it's about this. there is 0 systemic incentive to release products which work 'now and forever' and require 0 'upgrades', 'mitigations', etc. |
19:51 |
asciilifeform |
asciilifeform would happily produce e.g. ada replacement for trb. but for whom? instead currently fixing bugs in a vast legacy [censored] for [outfit no one ever heard of], and similar. |
| |
↖ |
19:51 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. 'unsexy' plumbing for people who pay. |
20:05 |
billymg |
for anyone who's curious, this atk-bridge-2.0 shim worked for me. was able to emerge gtk+3 without pulling in any systemdisms, and from there was able to emerge my preferred text editor, 'sublime text' |
20:05 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-30 15:31:48 asciilifeform: btw apparently https://github.com/sabotage-linux/atk-bridge-fake exists. |
20:06 |
billymg |
someone also made an ebuild for it, which also worked and tricks portage into thinking it's installed |
20:08 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: neato! |
20:08 |
billymg |
luly bug report thread here: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=669234 |
20:08 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: somehow i thought 'sublime' were commercial/cloased |
20:09 |
billymg |
The reasons for why at-spi is not optional in gtk+:3 are: |
20:09 |
billymg |
* Upstream made the decision to make accessibility framework mandatory. |
20:09 |
billymg |
* It is used in unittests frameworks such as dogtail. |
20:09 |
billymg |
* We try not to diverge from upstream when there is no clear reason to. Avoiding dbus in the context of graphical applications was not, until now at least.Yy |
20:09 |
billymg |
nnn |
20:09 |
billymg |
ignore last few characters, getting used to weechat |
20:09 |
asciilifeform |
lol |
20:10 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: sublime requires putting an accept line in package.license, yes |
20:10 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: items like this are traditionally statically-linked tho |
20:10 |
asciilifeform |
so rather odd that it has deps |
20:11 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: not sure, but i know it wouldn't emerge prior to installing gtk+3 |
20:11 |
asciilifeform |
interesting |
20:11 |
asciilifeform |
'worst of both worlds' |
20:11 |
shinohai |
billymg: Did you build weechat using ebuild or manually from sources? I just recently tried to build manually with gcc and builds but segfaults. |
| |
↖ |
20:11 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: it might be open source, but still require commercial license? |
20:11 |
asciilifeform |
possib |
20:12 |
* |
asciilifeform not uses subj, doesn't know |
20:12 |
billymg |
i'm now running into other problems with both chromium and firefox |
20:12 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: what kinda problem? |
20:12 |
billymg |
i'll post relevant details here, currently churning through another attempt at firefox |
20:13 |
asciilifeform |
( if it's fonts -- i've the cure ) |
20:14 |
billymg |
chromium failed on some ninja mksnapshot thing, and looked like machine ran out of memory (despite having 32gb to work with) |
20:15 |
billymg |
some users reported similar issues, suggested building with -system-icu USE flag |
20:15 |
billymg |
then it ran into another bug with ninja and again looked like it ran out of memory |
20:21 |
billymg |
lots of forum posts pointing to nodejs version, or maybe it's icu version, or clang version, etc. etc. |
20:24 |
billymg |
seems, to me at least, equally 'spray and pray' approach as massaging css |
20:24 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-23 16:26:41 asciilifeform: cssism tricks ALWAYS, seems, break ~somewhere~ |
20:24 |
billymg |
and hey, look at that, firefox-91.0.2 built successfully, and works |
20:33 |
* |
billymg now has working browser so probably won't put too much more time into this, but is now building chromium again in order to reproduce the errors for the logs |
20:39 |
billymg |
and i'm building the version from this overlay, the upstream versions not fooled by atk-bridge shim, whereas this one makes atk optional provided you have working gtk+ |
20:39 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-30 12:58:15 billymg: asciilifeform: so i found this overlay which has an ebuild for chromium that makes dbus optional, but this depends on the atk use flag, and if disabled, no dbus, but then wants to use gtk3 |
20:45 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: this is the error with system-icu, running again to get the different error with -system-icu |
20:46 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: may want to try w/ -j1 instead of j9 |
20:46 |
asciilifeform |
(re: the oom) |
20:47 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: ok, will queue that variation |
20:48 |
* |
asciilifeform must bbl. |
| |
~ 25 minutes ~ |
21:13 |
verisimilitude |
Hello, pete_rizzo_; I enjoyed the two linked articles well enough. |
21:15 |
verisimilitude |
In the P2SH piece, the following using a feminine pronoun in what I regard an obnoxious way: ``A multisig user would pay for the added transaction size when she spent the coins, while the extra data required posed a smaller burden on the network.'' |
21:16 |
verisimilitude |
In the other, every instance of ``was'' in the first paragraph should be ``were'', as should that in the paragraph containing the phrase ``controlled anarchy''. |
21:17 |
verisimilitude |
There are other errors I don't deign to mention. |
21:31 |
verisimilitude |
Check the logs for my messages, pete_rizzo_. |
21:32 |
verisimilitude |
Check today's logs, that's. |
21:34 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: for when you return, the other error when attempting with -system-icu |
21:34 |
billymg |
will now go back to using system-icu and try with -j1 |
21:37 |
kakobrekla |
i see you guys having fun in history class |
21:40 |
kakobrekla |
what can i say, dont butcher it hehe |
21:43 |
asciilifeform |
wb kakobrekla . maybe add sumthing, if can spare the cycles. |
21:43 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: pete_rizzo_ is from some fishwrap iirc but doubt that he'll eat 9000+km of log from '16 |
21:46 |
pete_rizzo_ |
lol |
21:47 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: i expect you've already met kakobrekla in the era1 log. chair of bitbet. |
21:47 |
pete_rizzo_ |
I can read and index a lot of material. I try to make sure I have some guideposts for log digging. just so I have some guideposts and know where/what I'm looking at |
21:51 |
asciilifeform |
( for pete_rizzo_ and other log archaeologists -- beginning of the destruction of bitbet . ) |
21:51 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2016-03-01 mircea_popescu: sooo... it pains me to say that bitbet was just on the receiving end of a concerted miner withholding attack. |
21:52 |
kakobrekla |
what/who prompted you to dig through this obscure part of timespace pete_rizzo_ ? maybe i missed it somewhere |
21:53 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: background and start of thread. |
21:53 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-25 10:48:50 asciilifeform: meanwhile, this fella replies. if he appears while asciilifeform is out, folx, plox to set a table for him. |
21:53 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-30 20:47:11 pete_rizzo_: eureka |
21:55 |
kakobrekla |
ba was like obscure (and eod irrelevant) subsubculture of obscure bitcoin subculture, so remote that its not even mentioned in any of the writings covering bitcoin history. |
21:56 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: outta curiosity, who in yer mind 'relevant' ? karpeles ? |
21:56 |
kakobrekla |
asciilifeform im surprised you are not convinced somehow he is sent by the usg haha |
21:56 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: i have nfi who sent, lol |
21:57 |
asciilifeform |
log -- public; if e.g. clinton wants to read it, and ask q's -- wainot chew apart for him, may help noobs in future. |
21:57 |
pete_rizzo_ |
Gonna be kind of a long answer |
21:57 |
asciilifeform |
(to read it, that is) |
21:57 |
pete_rizzo_ |
I had reached out to MP in April or so (just prior to his passing). As I said above, I was Editor of CoinDesk (sorry!) from 2013-2019. At the end of 2017, I became pretty convinced bitcoin worked finally. So I left CoinDesk... and resolved to do something better for Bitcoin. I started researching the "block size wars," with the intent of writing |
21:57 |
pete_rizzo_ |
something like a compendium of that period. But I wasn't super satisfied with what I was doing... felt like I didn't know the people or that I had complete answers for what went on... |
21:58 |
pete_rizzo_ |
basically after a year of doing interviews for that decided to just go back to the start of Bitcoin Talk and revisit the logs. That resulted in two longer history-type articles that answered questions I had...The first on P2SH (or how bitcoin developer politics took shape post-satoshi). Then I did the Satoshi-Gavin transition (looking at how/why |
21:58 |
pete_rizzo_ |
that transition took place). I still kept just being really confused about where "bitcoin maximalism" began |
21:58 |
kakobrekla |
relevant, depends how you measure, but i dont see we did much impact. or maybe im just speaking of myself and you all did magical things somehow that resulted in meaningful differences in the world. |
21:58 |
pete_rizzo_ |
Looking at the development of bitcoin, it seems to me more and more that B-A was really important to establishing parts of the bitcoin ideology that are much much more mainstream, and that took a lot longer to permeate outward |
22:00 |
kakobrekla |
anyone read blocksize wars, the bitmex book ? i havent yet |
22:00 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: from 'can you see the diff in the tv?' lens -- 0. from asciilifeform's pov e.g. trb existing is an entirely different universe (1 in which asciilifeform is willing to use bitcoin) from one where doesn't exist, for instance. |
22:00 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: i.e. answer depends entirely on observer's pov. |
22:00 |
pete_rizzo_ |
For example, most of the people involved in the UASF seem to come from B-A. And the entire social stylings of teh movement seem based on 1) Node sovereignty and 2) Being outwardly hostile and soverign. So UASF increasingly just seems like a replay of what developed in B-A |
22:01 |
punkman |
whatever the influence of #b-a and MP, the bitcoin wizards are still moving forward and piling complexity on the protocol |
22:01 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: and here is e.g. asciilifeform 1) happily ignoring all of it 2) still able to transact |
22:01 |
pete_rizzo_ |
yeah but something did change. you can even see it with taproot, where there's a whole class of newer developers who internalized what happened in B-A through the UASF |
22:02 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: remind me what 'uasf' was |
22:02 |
pete_rizzo_ |
user-activated soft fork was the line in the sand against Jihan and the big blockers. It was a piece of code that would have had a certain subset of nodes just implement segwit |
22:02 |
kakobrekla |
asciilifeform my pov looking back is we rightfully not recognized of achieving anything meaningful. you can hate me now, if you havent yet. |
22:03 |
kakobrekla |
we are* |
22:03 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: i don't disagree re 'not recognized'; simply don't think that this reich.recognition ~does anything~ |
22:03 |
kakobrekla |
sorry, im super tired |
22:03 |
asciilifeform |
fact remains, asciilifeform is able to use classical bitcoin. despite 1e10$ worth of reich efforts. |
22:04 |
asciilifeform |
this is sufficient 'achieve' from asciilifeform's pov ( and not, lol , his 'achieve' alone ; dun matter any ) |
22:04 |
kakobrekla |
the empirical evidence that your work had anything to do with that is as strong as chinise miners collusion of bbet tx |
22:05 |
pete_rizzo_ |
hm. yeah sorry to hear that. just giving my perspective. I think the arguments for Bitcoin sovereignty, running a node, anti-developer sentiment, and the social stylings of bitcoin users as aspirationally soverign ended up being pretty foundational |
22:05 |
kakobrekla |
but if you wanna paint a pretty picutre for pete_rizzo_ etc imma just shutup |
22:05 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: i don't think you grasp my meaning. simply, bitcoin ~for asciilifeform~ would not exist if the only way to use it were the prb ball o'shit. it'd be simply yet anuther mswin idjicy to him. |
22:06 |
kakobrekla |
yeah but you dont actually use the goddamn thing |
22:06 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: how not ? i use. or what, there's a min. # of decimal placed req'd to count as 'use' ? |
22:07 |
asciilifeform |
*places |
22:07 |
kakobrekla |
paypal can do that |
22:07 |
asciilifeform |
mno |
22:07 |
pete_rizzo_ |
yeah @kakobrekla i'm sure you have a different perspective being inside the thing. It sounded like it all went really badly eventually with TSMR |
22:07 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: taxpal |
22:08 |
kakobrekla |
sea shells, cash in mail, food stamp idk whatever |
22:08 |
asciilifeform |
rright, teleporting seashels you can hide in yer brain |
22:08 |
asciilifeform |
(where can i buy some?) |
22:08 |
kakobrekla |
you are not moving anywhere, you said it yourself 100xtimes |
22:08 |
kakobrekla |
you dont need to hide in brain |
22:09 |
pete_rizzo_ |
maybe i'm overthinking it... but as far as I figure it, you start with the assumptions. What do people now believe to be true about Bitcoin. Where do those ideas trace back to and who popularized them (if not Satoshi). They have to come from somewhere |
22:09 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: i'm rather curious, why so invested in 'bitcoin is useless' in your head ? i'd imagine would be opposite, what with having a heap |
22:10 |
asciilifeform |
pete_rizzo_: 1st step to enlightenment imho -- forget about 'people believe'. most of what you see on the net re: subj aint from 'people', is instead from these.. |
| |
↖ |
22:10 |
punkman |
I don't see why using prb as "node" is that much different from trb. can craft transactions with many different tools and sign offline, send it whatever node. |
22:11 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: have you read erry line of prb ? |
22:11 |
asciilifeform |
( and formed accurate model of how behaves ? ) |
22:11 |
kakobrekla |
on average month i move a few mil usd worth of it, type of txes that traditional finance rails wouldnt approve of |
22:11 |
kakobrekla |
that is closer to 'using it' for me |
22:12 |
kakobrekla |
but whatever |
22:12 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: by that token mp 'even more used' when moved 1k from one pocket to another (he was in the habit of doing this, i suspect from some ill-conceived notion of obfuscation) |
22:12 |
kakobrekla |
i didnt come here to argue |
22:12 |
kakobrekla |
yeah im not doing that |
22:14 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: i'm not certain that we disagree re the facts. but re ideology. i reject the 'bitcoin sphere' -- y'know, the one that shilled for karpeles, and for bigblox, and segshit, etc. as a political act; without appeal to 'but xyz'. categorically. |
22:15 |
asciilifeform |
( could even make solid argument for 'bitcoin still not exists' because fits-in-head provably correct client not yet written, for that matter. ) |
22:15 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-31 15:42:03 asciilifeform: before this gets lost -- the shit-foundations are trivial, in grand scheme of things, to fix. no 'mars missions' needed, no breakthroughs, simply coupla hundred man-hours. |
22:16 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. trb is still too much of a prb. |
22:17 |
asciilifeform |
y'know, rather like jew does not care to hear about how great is hitler's autobahn; or hitler does not care to hear about jewish composers. political rejection, no appeal. |
22:18 |
kakobrekla |
you go to war with the army that you have, not the army you wish you had |
22:19 |
kakobrekla |
you sould to me like those leftist socio studies homeless hippies |
22:19 |
asciilifeform |
ultimately you go to war with own feet, and hands, is the thing |
22:19 |
kakobrekla |
sound* |
22:19 |
punkman |
this political rejection -> can't do business with anyone was a major problem |
22:19 |
signpost |
^^^ |
22:19 |
pete_rizzo_ |
Some of what you all have said is a bit above my head. But hopefully this brings a useful other perspecive and y'all understand where i'm at |
22:19 |
pete_rizzo_ |
not entirely sure if we're on the same subject |
22:19 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: can't speak for erryone, but e.g. asciilifeform entirely willing to do biz with anyone -- who gets in the wot! |
22:20 |
punkman |
what wot? |
22:20 |
signpost |
drunk uncle stumbles in and pisses on thanksgiving turkey, lol |
22:20 |
signpost |
howdy kakobrekla |
22:20 |
signpost |
pete_rizzo_: a fundamental issue of the failed political movement called tmsr is grunted at in this thread. |
22:20 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: my l1. |
22:22 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: your pov is 'having principles is for idjit hippies' or do i oversimplify somehow ? |
22:23 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-31#1055302 << before this is lost to the sands, I would really like to know what this costs. |
22:23 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-31 15:46:22 asciilifeform: asciilifeform would happily produce e.g. ada replacement for trb. but for whom? instead currently fixing bugs in a vast legacy [censored] for [outfit no one ever heard of], and similar. |
22:24 |
kakobrekla |
you can have ALL the principles, which means you need to choose which ones you have ... but oh thats not principled at all! well tough tits its as good as it comes |
22:24 |
kakobrekla |
cant have ALL |
22:24 |
kakobrekla |
ffs |
22:24 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: which, concretely ? |
22:24 |
signpost |
nqb. |
22:24 |
signpost |
sorry, finished ada-node. |
22:25 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: it costs asciilifeform never having to think about employment again; hence # not quoted. |
22:25 |
signpost |
lolk |
22:25 |
signpost |
this is the one contract you wont take eh? |
22:25 |
* |
asciilifeform deliberately left that 'pandora's box' closed , to avoid lulthread |
22:26 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: it'd require getting off the train of my multi-yr existing ones. which aint replaceable on-demand. |
22:26 |
* |
asciilifeform expects signpost , having been in the biz, to know how this worx |
22:27 |
signpost |
yep, wasn't sure if you were signaling slack to fit it in. |
22:27 |
* |
signpost doesn't expect asciilifeform to never sleep. |
22:27 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: wat's 'signaling slack' ? |
22:27 |
signpost |
"I have such and such quarter free to finish this thing" |
22:27 |
asciilifeform |
lol ifonly |
22:27 |
signpost |
at which point I'd be asking the assembled why we haven't started a fund to make that happen. |
22:28 |
asciilifeform |
'free' for asciilifeform simply means 'i have whole 3wk of evenings! omfg!' |
22:28 |
punkman |
bitcoinfoundation still has some coin, doesn't it? |
22:29 |
asciilifeform |
!q seen-anywhere jurov |
22:29 |
dulapbot |
jurov last seen in #asciilifeform on 2021-07-02 12:26:27: i read about mp yesterday, then said to myself stop procrastinating and check back |
22:29 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: theoretically yes (not spent any, iirc, at any pt) |
22:30 |
kakobrekla |
give it to alfie, he can then 'use the bitcoin' and retire |
22:30 |
kakobrekla |
will be poetic. |
22:30 |
asciilifeform |
( last known broadcast of jurov ) |
22:30 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: laff if you like , it wouldn't suffice even if asciilifeform somehow ate all of it |
22:30 |
kakobrekla |
meh i dont get any kicks anymore by laffing |
22:31 |
asciilifeform |
it's good for you, kakobrekla . learn to laff again |
22:31 |
asciilifeform |
so much to do it at |
22:31 |
punkman |
I don't see the point in reimplementing trb though. Might as well start from scratch, what help would trb-compatibility be in running node? |
22:31 |
* |
asciilifeform would've drowned long ago if couldn't laff |
22:31 |
kakobrekla |
asciilifeform your life is drama to me, not comedy |
22:31 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: what help is that then you aint building a shitcoin. |
22:31 |
signpost |
trb's just shorthand for what's now hilariously called "legacy" address transactions and that's it. |
22:32 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: pleased to be of service |
22:32 |
signpost |
I'd for example love something that ate blocks and txn, chattered same, stayed reliably at top of chain, and had a raw txn hole |
22:32 |
kakobrekla |
asciilifeform id rather see you roaming free, believe or not |
22:32 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: when asciilifeform says 'trb' is referring to the product consisting largely of pre-bitcoin-being-valuable cpp cruft. |
22:32 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: why ty. |
22:32 |
signpost |
sure, but as "somewhere in here there's perhaps a protocol" material. |
22:33 |
kakobrekla |
maybe the world would get that 'elephant trunk' already |
22:33 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: 90% of it already illustrated in 'nqb' |
22:34 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: you may find strange, but possibly asciilifeform is missing some mp gene or sumthing, but tends to think 'if people wanted x, they'd pay for x' etc |
22:34 |
punkman |
does asciilifeform use trb as wallet? |
22:34 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: of course -- what else to use as wallet |
22:35 |
kakobrekla |
asciilifeform if people know what they wanted, 1 button iphone wouldnt be a scandal when it debuted |
22:35 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: i suspect i do moar manual gearshifting when 'walleting' than most folx tho |
22:35 |
asciilifeform |
(i.e. charge up 'wallet' w/ privs before firing ) |
22:36 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: many yrs ago, asciilifeform younger and moar naive, put btc addr on his www. 'what if rockefeller wants to donate!' etc |
22:36 |
asciilifeform |
('surprise' : nope) |
22:36 |
kakobrekla |
yes naive. |
22:37 |
asciilifeform |
so then. anyone who 'oh i wish asciilifeform would finish $proggy' -- it's right there, at top of pg. |
22:37 |
asciilifeform |
right hand corner. |
22:37 |
* |
asciilifeform not professional beggar, so prolly 'doing it wrong' |
22:38 |
asciilifeform |
but figured, gotta try errything once. |
22:38 |
kakobrekla |
there is so much wrong with this i dunno where to begin, but can start by your statements of how cant turn btc into food so therfore its useless to you |
22:38 |
kakobrekla |
which brings me back to my previous point of how you are not using it at all |
22:38 |
asciilifeform |
( oblig lolcat ) |
22:38 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2014-02-07 asciilifeform: re: hallucinogen: http://img0.joyreactor.cc/pics/post/%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0-quotes-786200.jpeg (translation: most often, the words 'you ought to try everything in life' refer to dope and porn acting, but much more rarely to quantum physics and chemistry' |
22:39 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: can't turn $miniscule_bag into $nothavingtoworkagain. rather than 'can't turn any into food' lol. |
22:39 |
asciilifeform |
it aint hard to turn btc into food at 20-30% efficiency. |
22:39 |
kakobrekla |
so what int are you looking for, curious |
22:39 |
kakobrekla |
what do you mean 30% wtf |
22:39 |
kakobrekla |
maybe you should try prb |
22:39 |
kakobrekla |
can do with 99% there! |
22:40 |
asciilifeform |
kakobrekla: i thought was clear, referring to taxschwitz. |
22:41 |
kakobrekla |
what people in eu are doing, is getting those buttkorn powered debit cards and paying at pos at 0 tax |
22:41 |
kakobrekla |
idk if it works there |
22:41 |
signpost |
you're in a jurisdiction without cap gains? |
22:41 |
asciilifeform |
iirc germany neh |
22:41 |
signpost |
nb |
22:41 |
asciilifeform |
or hm that was jurov |
22:41 |
kakobrekla |
im not in germany |
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22:42 |
asciilifeform |
a |
22:42 |
asciilifeform |
slovenia ? |
22:42 |
kakobrekla |
not any more |
22:43 |
kakobrekla |
but if i were, slovenia has 0 tax on crypto |
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22:43 |
asciilifeform |
so this in all of europistan ? sell arbitrary coin , 0 tax ? |
22:43 |
asciilifeform |
seems difficult to believe |
22:43 |
kakobrekla |
but this is irrelevant really, what i describe everyone in europe is doing |
22:43 |
kakobrekla |
and if it doesnt hit bank account, its not on the radar |
22:43 |
asciilifeform |
aaaa this |
22:43 |
asciilifeform |
this we have in usa. and even in zimbabwe they have. |
22:43 |
asciilifeform |
'not caught, not thief' |
22:44 |
kakobrekla |
there is no way to report it, even if you wanted it |
22:45 |
asciilifeform |
mp worked like this -- bags of cash. suitcases. like mavrodi. ( and when he wanted to so much as top off a hosting acct, had to 'get by with a little help from his friends', get someone to use a reichbank . sometimes asciilifeform even. ) |
22:46 |
asciilifeform |
depending on what your interests are in life, can live like this. if you've the skills and 'right time, right place.' ( ftr the only asciilifeform expense payable in physical benjies is tomatoes at the market. ) |
22:48 |
asciilifeform |
the mp essay re usa having effectively 2 currencies, was factual. |
22:48 |
asciilifeform |
( and the part where they don't convert 1:1 , even ) |
22:49 |
* |
asciilifeform when in the past attempted to explain it to old world folx, usually met with disbelief |
22:50 |
mats |
huh? they still have parity |
22:50 |
asciilifeform |
mats: nominal parity. y'know, like soviet ruble was nominally 6 to a dollar |
22:50 |
asciilifeform |
(or argentine peso today etc) |
22:51 |
mats |
i also recall the mp piece saying its still convertible, but not for long |
22:51 |
asciilifeform |
mats: damn near anything is convertible to damn near anything else; q is at what cost. |
22:52 |
asciilifeform |
people who routinely need to convert 100+k of usd to/from benjie to/from electrical -- in practice pay considerable premium. |
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22:52 |
asciilifeform |
(incl. but not limited to officials, who otherwise would 'in rem' confiscate) |
22:53 |
mats |
i'm not aware of any fees involved in depositing a suitcase of cash at the local bank |
22:53 |
asciilifeform |
mats: 0 fees until you find yourself in fbi jail. then fees. |
22:53 |
mats |
i mean if you have the paperwork |
22:54 |
asciilifeform |
and paperwork -- free ? |
22:54 |
asciilifeform |
or say you got the 100k green by doing sumthing 'terrorist' , like, say, sold a coupla btc w/out giving usg half. |
22:54 |
mats |
if you operate a cash business then its a cost of operation, irs audits and all |
22:54 |
asciilifeform |
aha. so -- fees. |
22:55 |
asciilifeform |
that there's yer fee. |
22:55 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. you don't get out 100% of what went in. nowhere close. |
22:55 |
asciilifeform |
i.e. not 'fully interconvertible'. |
22:55 |
mats |
there's always a spread, even if its a few bips |
22:55 |
mats |
nobody works for free |
22:55 |
asciilifeform |
rright but in this case the spread may easily include yer arse |
22:56 |
asciilifeform |
(on top of 100% of the money, incl. whatever you buried that they know where) |
22:56 |
mats |
i thought you were going to refer to the mc/visa duopoly boosting prices, or the nontrivial fees in doing money orders and prepaid credit cards and whatever |
22:56 |
asciilifeform |
nah that's chicken change in comparison |
22:56 |
asciilifeform |
(i.e. ~arbitrary swift wire is <50bux ) |
22:57 |
asciilifeform |
the high fees are collected with fbi rifle butts at 0300 hrs in yer bed. |
22:57 |
asciilifeform |
and with soldering iron up arse at ftmeade. |
22:59 |
asciilifeform |
of course you can also try to pay'em in installments, as e.g. asciilifeform does. but sometimes still will get 'billed' in your bed. |
23:01 |
* |
asciilifeform not speaking emptily, but has been on receiving end of naggum treatment many times. |
23:01 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-25 14:47:05 asciilifeform: via Pernille Nylehn (his ex) : 'I don’t think I’m revealing a big secret when I tell you that Erik ran in to very serious problemes with the Norwegian IRS. Very serious. They claimed he had earned more than he’d reported to them, and he claimed he didn’t. I absolutely think he was innocent, he was very particular |
23:03 |
asciilifeform |
( usa, for folx who haven't been there, is a fascinating hellhole, where even to spend btc is de-facto illegal . naturally not 'evenly enforced' noshit ) |
23:03 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-25 10:42:23 asciilifeform: punkman: in usa, if you have any kind of official presence there, when you buy xyz for coin from a usg.corp, they file a 'form 1099' tax report to declare that you've 'sold' coin and received its usd equiv. as 'income' (whether or not it in fact sold in the usual sense) and you eventually get a bill for up to half (!) of the sum. |
23:05 |
* |
asciilifeform will bbl. |
23:05 |
mats |
i have no idea what you're talking about in this last line |
23:06 |
mats |
the tax thing |
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~ 18 minutes ~ |
23:24 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: same error with -j1, but at least since it was only one thread it made it easier to see the actual line it failed on |
23:25 |
billymg |
i always love these "what's asciilifeform's magic number" threads |
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23:26 |
billymg |
seems they occur about once per year |
23:26 |
billymg |
i too would love to know, and would pitch in |
23:26 |
shinohai |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-31#1055323 << I figured this out so nw billymg - turns out it linked to wrong tinfo library, with newer ncurses had to use `-ltinfow` |
23:26 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-31 16:07:02 shinohai: billymg: Did you build weechat using ebuild or manually from sources? I just recently tried to build manually with gcc and builds but segfaults. |
23:28 |
billymg |
shinohai: ah, sorry, i think i missed that logline earlier somehow. i built emerged weechat from portage, no special steps/flags were necessary |
23:28 |
billymg |
s/built emerged/emerged |
23:29 |
billymg |
shinohai: but potentially this is the same problem i'm running into with chromium now? |
23:30 |
billymg |
as in possibly fixable with -ltinfow? |
23:30 |
shinohai |
May be! Formerly I linked plain 'ol `tinfo` but gdb showed it was indeed "double linked" so that is what caused my segfault. |
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~ 18 minutes ~ |
23:49 |
billymg |
shinohai: hmm, toggling that flag doesn't seem to have any effect on chromium's build, it's ignored in the USE list |
23:53 |
shinohai |
I may have missed your last post on chromium woes, where does it currently fail? |
23:53 |
billymg |
shinohai: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=C8Pa |
23:55 |
billymg |
shinohai: and with -system-icu, a slightly different error: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=z6Re |
23:56 |
billymg |
it does look like it's just running out of memory, but running with -j1 didn't work either (still runs out of memory) |
23:56 |
shinohai |
You have plenty 'o swap ? |
23:57 |
billymg |
0 swap right now, but 1tb drive, so could add a large swap file |
23:57 |
billymg |
might try that next actually... |
23:58 |
shinohai |
In meantime will see if I dig up anything re: icu - when I did a "degoogled chromium" build from source there was some kind of bug with system icu on mine but I forgot what. |