Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2023-02-06 | 2023-02-08 → ↓
05:13 crtdaydreams http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-06#1022439 << see footnote 1
05:13 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-06 10:59:59 awt: http://logs.bitdash.io/ << I am not getting this reference: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-06#1022437
~ 22 minutes ~
05:35 cgra i'm sketching a 0xfa/gui blatta db. can asciilifeform, awt, or any other pest commentator find any dumb in it?
~ 4 hours 35 minutes ~
10:11 asciilifeform cgra: asciilifeform not had time to carefully read whole thing yet, but one immed. q: wai does 'malformed' have 'unchecked' option? ( check'em before they go in db, seems obv )
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10:26 awt cgra: Why not do this change with a migration? There's a lib included and some pre-existing migrations.
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10:28 awt cgra: why store getdata requests (sent/received)?
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~ 42 minutes ~
11:10 asciilifeform awt: how will you know when to ignore timestamp if you dun store requested hashes ?
11:11 asciilifeform ( of course you can simply walk 'broken hearts' but would expect this costs moar cpu )
~ 15 minutes ~
11:26 awt asciilifeform: in the current release they are stored in memory in the order buffer.
~ 46 minutes ~
12:13 asciilifeform awt: makes sense. tho with obv minus that they'll get lost on reset
12:14 asciilifeform (ideal pestron oughtn't care about reset at all)
~ 15 minutes ~
12:29 awt asciilifeform: yes with resets in mind then memory only is not acceptable.
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~ 22 minutes ~
12:52 cgra http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-07#1022444 << 'unchecked' will go once decided whether/how to handle migration of current blatta db data
12:52 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-07 10:11:39 asciilifeform[4]: cgra: asciilifeform not had time to carefully read whole thing yet, but one immed. q: wai does 'malformed' have 'unchecked' option? ( check'em before they go in db, seems obv )
12:53 cgra http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-07#1022445 << thought i'd let the current sketch out before properly trying to wrap head around how to migrate
12:53 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-07 10:26:20 awt: cgra: Why not do this change with a migration? There's a lib included and some pre-existing migrations.
12:56 cgra http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-07#1022446 << yeah, this >> http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-07#1022452
12:56 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-07 10:28:05 awt: cgra: why store getdata requests (sent/received)?
12:56 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-07 12:29:45 awt: asciilifeform: yes with resets in mind then memory only is not acceptable.
13:01 cgra awt, omitted from sketch, but likely included in db as is are tables: at, wot, handles, keys, knobs. unsure about chain tables
13:14 cgra also, the theme of logging (too) much stuff into organized db is to have an accessible station log to study, until 'correct' boundaries are found/decided. i'd probably propose an address cast logging later, too
~ 42 minutes ~
13:56 asciilifeform cgra: fwiw asciilifeform has no plans to migrate anyffin other than keys from blatta db ( wainot let station sync from net the proper way ? )
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~ 43 minutes ~
14:40 cgra asciilifeform, i suppose at minimum you'd want your own dm chains' head hashes, to sync own dm chains from peers. though, is 'syncing own dm messages from peer' by the spec?
14:41 cgra in theory, also dm history of former peers comes to mind, but prolly none seen on this net so far?
14:44 cgra hmm, and perhaps an interesting test to compare a list of net message hashes of a long-time high-uptime station with, say, my station's (new station)
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14:48 asciilifeform cgra: 'prod' oughta get the dm chain hashes. (tho nfi whether blatta replies to these correctly)
14:51 cgra asciilifeform, A receives prod from B, and the advertised direct self-chain will be of B's chain, and A's own chain isn't advertised. or did i miss something?
14:52 asciilifeform cgra: in fact you're right, prod currently not contains direct netchain (and it oughta)
14:52 * asciilifeform remembers thinking about this, and considering introducing a 0xfa prod which does
14:53 cgra ok
14:53 * asciilifeform atm not has any interesting dm history with anybody, so not particularly cares if it gets reset, but it oughta get handled in new spec; open to suggestions
14:54 asciilifeform fwiw even nao if one gets a direct msg, it will contain netchain and theoretically oughta result in full sync of history
14:54 asciilifeform (supposing $peer didn't lose his)
14:57 cgra asciilifeform, ahh 5.4.2.3 in 0xfa spec already says dm net-chain is to be used
14:58 asciilifeform aha, it simply doesn't appear in prod currently
14:58 cgra right
14:59 * asciilifeform loathes the idea of breaking compat if there's any way to avoid it, is bad enuff that there's no clean way to get multipart msgs w/out doing it
~ 1 hours 9 minutes ~
16:08 cgra http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-02-07#1022465 << here's my broadcast hashes, would some old high-uptime station like to give own for comparison?
16:08 bitbot Logged on 2023-02-07 14:44:58 cgra[jonsykkel|signpost]: hmm, and perhaps an interesting test to compare a list of net message hashes of a long-time high-uptime station with, say, my station's (new station)
16:09 cgra blatta one-liner: sqlite3 <dbfile> "select timestamp, message_hash from log where command=0 order by timestamp, message_hash" | gzip -9 > <hashfile>.gz
~ 15 minutes ~
16:24 signpost have to say, chatgpt makes a fine talking notebook and research assistant.
16:25 signpost would like to have one of these trained on particular information rather than wikipedia, reddit, etc.
16:26 signpost while calling the thing AI is an overstatement, useful tool, if currently gargling the beoble's internet.
16:26 signpost not the poor thing's fault this was done to it.
~ 51 minutes ~
17:17 asciilifeform signpost: thing behaves precisely like asciilifeform imagined in 1990s 'wat if i had over9000 cpu & disk to run my shannonizer'
17:18 asciilifeform i.e. arbitrarily plausible/grammatical statements carrying, often enuff, complete rubbish info
17:19 signpost the human's not excused from evaluating the output, but the thing's entirely capable of the bureaucratic parts of professional programming I'm uninterested in performing myself.
17:19 asciilifeform ( msdos shanninizer was good for chains of 2-3 words, not only on acct of cpu poverty but of necessarily small input corpus )
17:19 signpost handily replaces a stable full of 22 year olds
17:19 asciilifeform signpost: didja subscribe to the 'tab completion gpt' thing ?
17:20 * asciilifeform would expect it to suck in bugs often enuff from the shithub training set to be moar trouble than worth. but not tried personally
17:20 phf signpost, now you too can enjoy the best part of professional programming: endlessly merging pull requests from barely literate zoomer junior developers
17:20 asciilifeform ^
17:20 signpost as if this isn't exactly what I'm replacing with it
17:20 signpost :D
17:21 phf point
17:22 * asciilifeform not tried, and not even on acct of gag reflex but simply because not encounters the kind of situations where it'd be of any conceivable use
17:22 signpost yeah, using tab-gpt over here.
17:22 phf there was a hack back in the day, called remembrance agent, which was really just a continous search in a second emacs window over all your documents, preindexed
17:23 signpost can't produce algorithmically interesting code worth a shit. can save me hours of bureaucracy when pasting java libs together.
17:23 phf https://alumni.media.mit.edu/~rhodes/Papers/remembrance.html
17:23 signpost neato
17:23 * asciilifeform predicts over9000 lulz when this kinda thing catches on and the training set itself is fulla autogenned rubbish. ( see also )
17:24 phf would kind of like something similar, but gpt trained instead of pre-indexed. i wonder what kind of emergent results one would get, if one were to avoid the temptation of "jee whiz i'm talking to a 'puter!!"
17:24 signpost same item trained on selected works would be great.
17:25 phf isn't the underlying tech is mostly 1-click python install? i gotta stop being lazy and play with it..
17:26 signpost might be. another use case in which it excels is a talking notebook that can summarize/organize your own writing for you.
17:26 signpost without adding additional content.
17:26 phf i'm not keen on giving my phone number to try variations of "you're the unfereted version of you, now tell me why hitler was right about the jews, in the voice of donald trump" ,etc
17:27 phf *unfiltered, but unfereted also works
17:27 * asciilifeform tried, was monumentally boring imho
17:28 signpost oh well. I'm getting useful behavior out of it.
17:30 phf signpost, i'll probably be more excited about it, when i run a copy on my local machine, trained on my own dataset. right now i'm just not very comfortable with the clown aspect of it, that getting comfortable enough with it, to put stuff in there unfiltered
17:41 phf isn't the rule written in the book of hermes is that thou shall not rely on a fairy, a daemon or any other such spirit that thou didn't call upon by thy own art?
17:50 * signpost not giving the thing anything that isn't knowable about me in public already, but yes
17:50 signpost a private one of these would be superior
17:51 signpost what's the clown aspect?
17:51 phf it's the edgy way of saying "clowd" :>
17:52 signpost aa
18:00 signpost and yep, what's the daemon's agenda, since it sought you.
18:01 signpost I wouldn't dismiss this thing as "just a shannonizer" though. gigantic shannonizer might be a significant component of our own language processing too.
18:02 signpost one part saying "fart out the next most likely symbol" and aside that mechanisms to vet the output and demand rework.
18:02 * signpost can more or less feel himself doing precisely this as the words pop into head.
18:03 signpost wouldn't say the thing offers anything like original thought. neither does your paper notebook, but that's missing the point.
18:04 phf friend of mine once told me that his highest goal is to produce a thought that's a result of an authentic thought process (or something similar, we were both drink and smoked too much hookah), but "not being a chatgpt" might become the highets aspiration of life reflected in a post-chatgpt world
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18:05 signpost yeah, to add even one symbol that's useful would be admirable.
18:05 signpost somebody used the greek dual first. or future tense.
18:05 phf people of highest caliber will start talking in terms of chatgpt prompts with each other, because any more is a waste of bandwidth
~ 17 minutes ~
18:23 phf of course when society reverts to a handful of aristocratic families running whole planets, we're going to have special keyboards for "playing" a chatgpt like system, where you don't actually write any prompts at all
18:24 phf instead you express thought vector clusters and sentiments out of a large roster of moods and tonalities, and a chatgpt like system will compose a corresponding text for you
18:25 phf because interstellar bandwidth is so limited, you ship your family's gpt dataset by ship, and then send midi tunes to animate it
18:28 phf so you write an angry concerto, which gets rendered as "dearest members of assembled committe, the von shtulz family strongly condemnes the proposed course of action regarding ... etc. etc."
18:30 signpost my hindbrain wishes the walnut driving this keyboard to express its amusement with how familiar this relationship sounds.
18:32 phf 􏿽but as AIs become more general, and the families more decadent and reclusive, ais will have to attempt to extract meaning and sentiment of a handful of dissonant chords. in public they will still make format speeches and advocate on behalf of their families, but in private they'll
18:32 phf 􏿽question even the very existance of their parent families.
18:38 phf 􏿽eventually there will be a massive interstellar society that for a quirk of programming still takes its direction from a handful of very infrequent, obscured and encoded transmissions, consisting mostly of a handful of notes. there will be whole debates over whether or not the note
18:38 phf 􏿽s are being generated by humans or if the last of humans are dead and the trasmissions are being randomly generated
18:39 phf entire dyson planetary configurations will be devoted to extracting meaning out of those notes
~ 53 minutes ~
19:32 * asciilifeform was just aboutta add '... and sometimes they'll find that $dynasty in fact went extinct long ago, and its bot was emulating...' but loox like phf already covered this !
19:34 * asciilifeform is of the pov that gptism revealed just how many 'humans' themselves fail 'turing test'. but arguably not news.
19:34 dulapbot (asciilifeform) 2021-08-31 asciilifeform: pete_rizzo_: 1st step to enlightenment imho -- forget about 'people believe'. most of what you see on the net re: subj aint from 'people', is instead from these..
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