Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2019-07-18 | 2019-07-20 → ↓
01:36 mp_en_viaje asciilifeform, sucks.
01:37 mp_en_viaje the problem with your stance is tha tthey do not want your custom.
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01:38 mp_en_viaje fish shop without any fish does not need fish buyers who expett to get fish for any reason. does enough "trade" with "classic" "traditional" "typical" etc "customer" who merely talks about fish and fish buying. exactly like http://trilema.com/2014/business-whatever-that-may-mean/#selection-203.288-207.25
01:39 mp_en_viaje see the dudes standing around ? "userbase". "so how come you have no money ?" "ins'allah"
01:42 mp_en_viaje http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923443 << but of course. once precious cuntlet ends up importent into any process flow, you know for a fact it won't get undone willingly -- it's either burn it down or forget about it. (pc is this thing, you've surely seen it, the dumb chick who thinks she's got a "career" out of "following 3 ring binder". the exact other half of the dumb chick who thinks "nobody can call her a slut" because she's dressing poorly
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01:42 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 02:30 asciilifeform: aaand their reply .
01:42 mp_en_viaje and misbejaving sexually
01:42 mp_en_viaje the problem, of course, is that b) is still a slut, just, a very shitty one ; and a) still doesn't have a career, she just also doesn't have any friends.
01:44 mp_en_viaje http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923447 << so did linus. the problem with the behaviour standard is that pantsuit aligned agent can appear to behave sanely for lack of actual testing for any arbitrary length of time. eg, my clay pot also has behaved sanely as hammer for lo these past 3 weeks -- principally because i've not had need of any hammers 3 weeks straight.
01:44 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 02:59 asciilifeform: dunno, behaved sanely for 12+ years.
01:44 mp_en_viaje had you said "undo your process for my sake" at any point, you'd have discovered the same thing.
01:45 mp_en_viaje this is rather why i don't really deal with entities unwilling to go outside of their standard flow, it's like an initial test. because if they don't, i know what they are, and well...
01:47 mp_en_viaje eg -- some "self-serve" items will do table service for me, some will come over to tell me i gotta go to them, and run into the "you already walked here, now take out your pen". 100% DO NOT take out the pen, because if the precious cuntlet's dumb enough to actually march over to whine at me about her incronssequential worldview failing in practice, she's sure as fuck not about to drop it. she's
01:47 mp_en_viaje rather decided to matasareanu herself all over the altar of her precious cuntlet mattering in the world.
01:47 mp_en_viaje the fact that young girls do this a lot more than young boys, these days, is the principal reason of white man culture failure, btw.
01:50 mp_en_viaje http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923456 << yes but trb was last worked upon i dun even recall, 2015 ? when we decided we have to fix everything else first. in between then and now, medical science made some progress
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01:50 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 03:08 trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923105 << I followed the same model for depwads that don't belong to the republic as was followed in the trb build toolchain.
01:51 mp_en_viaje http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923461 << gb size PATCH yes, and is forbidden. GB sized GENESIS not the same thing at all. plox to not confuse vpatch and genesis! patch says, "this is a change i'm making to an item, plox judge ~the change~. not the item. the item is taken for granted". gensis says, "this is an item i'm proposing ; please judge it".
01:51 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 03:09 asciilifeform: trinque: imho GB-sized vpatch makes a mockery of very concept.
01:52 mp_en_viaje IF one does not want gb sized ~genesis~, then ONE MUST NOT USE THE ITEM. yes, usage against this is tolerated against. but the day will come when it's "sorry, your X can not interop with republic, either get rid of it or get lost yourself". and i fucking mean that, too, maybe not today and maybe not tomorrow, but it will fucking happen.
01:52 mp_en_viaje because that's the very correlate of republic, and of selectivity and of changing the world, as opposed to social club.
01:53 mp_en_viaje and so, given that we've decided "something like the item will have to exist" and also "the actual item may be just as good a starting point as anything, and in any case better than pen, blank paper, and alf's scheduler", thus therefore it follows, mandatorily and undisputably, that there will be a bunch of large genesises.
01:55 mp_en_viaje in fact, the above is actually happening ~even today~ : "
01:55 mp_en_viaje When version 5.6 is removed, I will have to pack up and leave. By imposing these changes, you will have lost a customer of 12 years. And probably not only one." says exactly the same thing.
01:56 mp_en_viaje http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923463 << this being why the wot system even exists : so ten dozen different worms can work together, digest mysql codebase or w/e, and produce a usable item. which yes, once it's made can be re-genesised into sanity and we can safely forget the name mysql. but until then, work.
01:56 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 03:10 asciilifeform: even 100MB is pushing it. i dunno if i, personally, will live long enuff to read 100MB of cpp.
01:56 mp_en_viaje http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923467 << it can not be "graft the src as territory is actually captured". it has to be "graft all the src in, start capturing among it".
01:56 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 03:11 trinque: yes, now graft in the src as territory is actually captured
01:57 mp_en_viaje http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923475 << aha, i recall this part of the orig. discussions
01:57 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 03:19 asciilifeform: possibly with granular billing ('femtobitcoin per cpu cycle' even, or the like) or not, but in principle possible.
02:05 mp_en_viaje http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-14#1922400 << meanwhile the cause for this was discovered : yui.yahooapis.com/2.5.2/build/yahoo/yahoo-min.js yui.yahooapis.com/2.5.2/build/event/event-min.js yui.yahooapis.com/2.5.2/build/connection/connection-min.js all 404 ; so whatever's your timeout that's how long pages take to spuriously load.
02:05 a111 Logged on 2019-07-14 08:12 mp_en_viaje: so since thelastpsychiatrist.com went all fucking stupid (cloudflare aside, and mountain of pointless js aside, there's a spurious 1min delay before any pageload also now!), i scraped the article list both from archive page and category page, and downloaded the list.
02:05 mp_en_viaje and what hapened's 100% what happened with "nearly free speech", linux and everyone else : they "upgraded", thereby breaking the abi, thereby destroying history -- because obviously the dead don't chase updates.
~ 54 minutes ~
03:00 mp_en_viaje in other such, cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/odd.html now dead.
03:01 mp_en_viaje http://archive.is/cD1NH << previous version, just as dead.
03:09 ave1 4096-bit RSA key, ID 14D30364, created 2017-05-18 "ave--"
~ 16 minutes ~
03:26 mp_en_viaje hm ?
03:40 feedbot http://trilema.com/2019/odd-comments-and-strange-doings-in-unix/ << Trilema -- Odd Comments and Strange Doings in Unix
03:54 ave1 mp_en_viaje: sticky keyboard or mouse
~ 24 minutes ~
04:19 feedbot http://trilema.com/2019/thelastpsychiatristcom-according-to-time-the-worlds-most-influential-person-is-adnotated/ << Trilema -- thel....com - According to Time, The World's Most Influential Person Is.... Adnotated.
~ 45 minutes ~
05:04 diana_coman BingoBoingo: make me a shared hosting account with wp installed please; bill it for one year and let me know if there's something else you need from me
05:05 diana_coman it turns out mulling will have to do its thing while action goes on.
~ 15 minutes ~
05:21 diana_coman I mean ofc mp-wp there.
~ 16 minutes ~
05:37 diana_coman BingoBoingo: in case you need it: the domain name for it is younghands.club
~ 1 hours 21 minutes ~
06:59 Mocky BingoBoingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/vHBpR/?raw=true
~ 1 hours 32 minutes ~
08:31 BingoBoingo diana_coman: ty, will get you set up today
08:42 girlattorney is luke jr high in this video about bitcoin future? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU6tGj5VdYw
08:44 girlattorney i saw also he was here on irc a couple of years ago
08:47 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923482 << pretty obv. from the answer, heh
08:47 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 05:37 mp_en_viaje: the problem with your stance is tha tthey do not want your custom.
08:48 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923485 << entirely troo, and worth to carve in stone somewhere..
08:48 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 05:42 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923443 << but of course. once precious cuntlet ends up importent into any process flow, you know for a fact it won't get undone willingly -- it's either burn it down or forget about it. (pc is this thing, you've surely seen it, the dumb chick who thinks she's got a "career" out of "following 3 ring binder". the exact other half of the dumb chick who thinks "nobody can call her a slut" because she's dressing poorly
08:50 trinque this "gb genesis is fine" thing comes as a surprise.
08:50 trinque in light of years of threads on the subj.
08:51 trinque my intent here was to have the vtree read as a history of the items as they have been understood, not as "here's the wad of shit diana_coman needed one day so we put it all in and signed it"
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08:51 asciilifeform trinque: it's 'gordian knot' that has to be cut ~somehow~. consider, as of yet asciilifeform cannot vtronicize that kernel patch, cuz... no kernel genesis.
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08:51 asciilifeform ditto gcc.
08:52 trinque we agree the work isn't done, but I fundamentally disagree that gb genesis is the move
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08:52 diana_coman trinque: the trouble is that you need to start from somewhere and that somewhere is "this wad of shit"
08:52 asciilifeform trinque: how wouldja do it ?
08:52 trinque moreover it would've been great to have someone raise this objection when I was posting alphas of the thing for months
08:52 diana_coman so how do you suggest to start? because even if I have this ebuild, I can't patch it because effectively, no sources so what am I patching exactly, just the ebuild script? how does that help?
08:53 trinque I told you what work would be necessary to make having the src in the tree do anything in the last thread.
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08:53 trinque "fuck you I deal only in platonic ideals" is not a way of interfacing with the world
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08:54 trinque there are several changes to portage that'd have to happen before it's going to build any src you make part of that tree
08:54 asciilifeform trinque: imho worth to write article re subj
08:55 asciilifeform atm trinque afaik is the only 1 who went deep enuff into the portage guts to know the detail
08:55 trinque diana_coman: did you yet read, understand, clean, and swear to the foregoing re: curl?
08:55 trinque or did you just need it?
08:55 diana_coman trinque: my experience is that portage will happily build sources that are locally in /cuntoo/distribution (iirc.); so I don't understand re "won't build"
08:57 diana_coman trinque: not cleaned no, not swearing either; hence mp_en_viaje 's earlier observation that I'm not vpatching but genesising and those are different precisely because genesis is a place to start (be it a wad of shit) not "this thing I can swear to "
08:58 trinque mk, so anything we don't feel like reading we just cram into the genesis for our children to swim in
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08:58 diana_coman I don't want curl in the genesis, lolz
08:58 diana_coman I want however A genesis from where to be able to start
08:58 diana_coman you know, I went into this+curl because you said oh noez, nobody is doing ebuilds etc
08:59 trinque sure. and if you disagree with my incrementalism, that's fine too.
08:59 trinque we did exactly "here are the filthy deps we don't understand and will probably abandon" in trb, recall
09:00 trinque we did it by hash reference
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09:00 trinque if you can graft in an understood curl somewhere ~and~ get portage to use that src I'll applaud
09:01 diana_coman trinque: I suppose I don't *understand* the incrementalism you see there; because there isn't something I can follow "from this genesis he did this vpatch cutting that out etc"
09:02 diana_coman or is your objection to using V for verifiable-incrementalism or what
09:03 BingoBoingo Mocky: ty
09:03 trinque my objection is that nobody here knew how to build a linux aside perhaps 3 folks.
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09:03 trinque my first step was to enumerate the wads of ??? needed
09:03 trinque now someone can read the genesis and know what goes into the recipe
09:04 trinque from there, yeah, learn about curl
09:04 trinque learn about runit or hell glibc
09:04 trinque musl, w/e
09:04 trinque but having crammed them all into the genesis ruins the "what's a linux" overview
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09:05 diana_coman but enumeration is not "know what wads goes" , how does this work? how is "a wad called soandso" enough?
09:05 trinque so as I said, if you can now vpatch in an ~understood~ curl, do it, and make portage build it, and show me how
09:05 trinque diana_coman: I'm going to have to leave. my final point is that this "do it all perfectly and yesterday" is a great way to never go anywhere
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09:06 diana_coman the "perfectly" is your addition
09:06 diana_coman and precisely what you are throwing back that "oh, but you want the shit in the genesis,no!"
09:07 asciilifeform trinque: the root of problem is how to do the GB-of-shit to kB-of-food conversion w/out genesising the shit
09:07 diana_coman as I get it, you want genesis to be only something-perfectly-understood; that is the perfection that is not possible and that nobody is asking for
09:07 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje evidently also had nfi how, and so prescribed 'genesis the GB of shite'
09:07 asciilifeform i also haven't any better idea atm.
09:08 asciilifeform e.g alternative of asciilifeform's 'here is my hash of mp's gpg-1.4.10' thing is fundamentally sinful , cuz not in fact vtronically contiguous w/ original
09:09 trinque I mean, if it's what's wanted, somebody else step up, and I'll trash the item I made.
09:09 asciilifeform in fact, recall how trb 'chicken' genesis was a hand-cranked recipe, cuz had to delete binary gif turds etc and vtron of the time could not autodigest such deletion
09:10 trinque asciilifeform: I really don't care what the perfectly preserved historic curl was, so long as the revised item passed through a single human head in my wot
09:10 asciilifeform trinque: sure. but you can't have vpatch w/out a genesis that actually puts the original on the machine, or what am i missing
09:13 diana_coman trinque: ftr there is no talk whatsoever of trashing the item you made, no idea where that came from
~ 16 minutes ~
09:30 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923544 - this is quite rich esp in light of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923569
09:30 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 12:53 trinque: "fuck you I deal only in platonic ideals" is not a way of interfacing with the world
09:30 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 13:04 trinque: but having crammed them all into the genesis ruins the "what's a linux" overview
09:31 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923496 << mno. let's walk a few. e.g. : 'aggression'. dec. 2017. ben_vulpes 'aggression'. dec. '17. ;
09:31 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 05:50 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923456 << yes but trb was last worked upon i dun even recall, 2015 ? when we decided we have to fix everything else first. in between then and now, medical science made some progress
09:31 a111 Logged on 2017-12-23 20:42 asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, PANZERS! : http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-December/000281.html
09:31 a111 Logged on 2017-12-24 22:54 ben_vulpes: mod6 asciilifeform et al: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-December/000282.html
09:31 asciilifeform asciilifeform's blackhole profilings. feb. '17 ;
09:31 a111 Logged on 2017-02-26 18:01 asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, PANZERS!
09:31 asciilifeform asciilifeform's 'wires' experiment. feb. '17
09:31 a111 Logged on 2017-02-23 23:52 asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, PANZERS!
09:32 asciilifeform 'makesnap'. oct. 2018 .
09:32 a111 Logged on 2018-10-20 01:47 asciilifeform: meanwhile: ACHTUNG, PANZERS! >> http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-October/000315.html
09:33 asciilifeform 'who-gave'. sept. '18
09:33 a111 Logged on 2018-09-29 22:11 asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, panzers!!! http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-September/000312.html << .
09:33 asciilifeform and prolly i missed a few by other folx (e.g. mod6 had at least 1 in recent 2y)
09:34 asciilifeform thing is, trb is imho mature in re 'knobs' , the time nao is to ~cut~, slice an' dice an' replace with adaistic prosthetics
09:34 asciilifeform certainly has NOT 'stood in place since 2015' tho. i would not want to use the trb of '15 in preference to the current.
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09:35 asciilifeform ( can't speak for all, but -- lacking 'aggression' , node 'zoolag' routinely was behind 100+ blox as often as not )
09:44 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923563 << not sure i'd even include self in this number, of yet. ported kernel to 'machine' that never before existed ( the 'cpu' is mips1, but the 'periphs' naturally correspond to no physically existing irons, of yet.. ) and this was entirely new puzzler to asciilifeform ; but not yet ported trinque's userland, and of yet nfi where to begin there
09:44 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 13:03 trinque: my objection is that nobody here knew how to build a linux aside perhaps 3 folks.
09:58 asciilifeform revisiting upstack : hey mod6 , did 'who-gave' ever make it into flagship vtree ? ( i dun see it there ... )
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09:59 asciilifeform ( imho 'makesnap' oughta also be considered, but admittedly may be of 'niche' interest )
10:03 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923538 << trinque if you have an alternative algo that avoids giga-genesis, i'd really like to hear about it asap, before we start genesising 100MB of kernelade complete with autoconfisms etc
10:03 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 12:52 trinque: we agree the work isn't done, but I fundamentally disagree that gb genesis is the move
10:13 diana_coman asciilifeform: as far as I understand it, trinque's algo is http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923467 aka in a way the precise opposite: we don't actually have cuntoo at all; we have (genesised) just a map and the rest is a sort of "for illustration purpose only"
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10:13 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 03:11 trinque: yes, now graft in the src as territory is actually captured
10:19 diana_coman fwiw, taking the above view, I can fully see his despair at "but why don't you have the sources in there?" ; the only puzzler is how exactly does he see the above as more practical and pragmatic than the plain "this wad of shit is what cuntoo is atm, worms and mud and all"
~ 22 minutes ~
10:41 mp_en_viaje http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923535 << well, i dunno, be specific as to where ? there's whole discussions as to how "make diff keys if you must", for instance.
10:41 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 12:51 trinque: my intent here was to have the vtree read as a history of the items as they have been understood, not as "here's the wad of shit diana_coman needed one day so we put it all in and signed it"
10:46 mp_en_viaje http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923543 << aside from the apparent divergence as to what means what / what is implied by what / etcetera, you seem to be developing a more biting divergence in thsi signalling thing. i let pass http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-14#1922463 in silence, but apparently it wasnt such a wise course. what do you mean, exactly, "i told you what work" ? it's not apparent that's a priviledged function for some reason, you can't
10:46 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 12:53 trinque: I told you what work would be necessary to make having the src in the tree do anything in the last thread.
10:46 a111 Logged on 2019-07-14 22:25 trinque: diana_coman: congrats. the next step would be to produce a vpatch which adds your curl ebuild atop the genesis.vpatch the bootstrapper produced.
10:46 mp_en_viaje just up and start "telling what work" in trilema, ESPECIALLY seeing how you've not so far done such an impressive job "telling what work" in #trinque, so as to, for instance, rescue ben_vulpes from his grave.
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10:46 mp_en_viaje you're aware of this flow, are you ? i allocated him to you so that he becomes more like you, not so that you become more like him.
10:49 mp_en_viaje there's approximately 0 need of telling what work, and immense need of the actual work. if you'd like to shine, shine that way ; you can start for instance with a http://bvt-trace.net/2019/07/todo-items-and-work-plan-jul2019/#selection-11.0-23.54 ,to cover the seven month old http://trinque.org/2018/11/27/cuntoo-bootstrapper/
10:49 a111 Logged on 2019-06-22 06:45 mp_en_viaje: leaving aside how a rate of progress of 0 items / week for week after week after livelong week puts extremely low demands on my time and attention -- far, far from requiring it be a central locus of my focus, republican 2019 as seen so far would have worked just as well if i gave it an hour biweekly, and i don't mean twice a week, i mean every other week -- there's just no need to keep the engine running on big brutus for the "j
10:52 mp_en_viaje http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923552 << exactly. it is marginally better than merely dropping portage on their head ; and it is ideologically defensible because guess what, if they don't like the genesis they don;t have to either patch on it or press it.
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10:52 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 12:58 trinque: mk, so anything we don't feel like reading we just cram into the genesis for our children to swim in
10:53 mp_en_viaje all discussion to shock and surprise aside, this is the fuck exactly how trb genesis happened, too. nobody wrote a good one, just picked an actual one and genesis'd that.
10:57 mp_en_viaje and yes, it included fucking bdb, as well as all sorts of stupid crap, which no, nobody swore to this very day ; not because nobody read, either. nor do i expect anyone will ever swear to bdb trb component.
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11:01 mp_en_viaje http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923558 << hash reference is useless for this purpose, because of the very meaning of a hash -- you can't get the hashed source back out of it. the hash worked well enough for trb because ~everyone has ~all versions and so it's a narrow and well documented domain. the hash will not work (and, experimentally, in plenty of cases you weren't involved with, failed to work, because the domain is 2+ degrees of magnitude v
11:01 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 13:00 trinque: we did it by hash reference
11:01 mp_en_viaje ast-er, and nobody stores it all, quite deliberately, because everyone fucking hates it, not loves it like they love bitcoin.
11:09 mp_en_viaje http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923563 << you keep struggling with this issue, and it's unseemly. looky, you didn't invent computers. you weren't there when ken thompson shocked himself on the pdp or when richie papercut himself with the unix manual or when etcetera. you're fifth generation, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. plenty of people hacked away at linux or at unix or at whatever the fuck else back when you were installing l
11:09 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 13:03 trinque: my objection is that nobody here knew how to build a linux aside perhaps 3 folks.
11:09 mp_en_viaje ego bricks around the house. this doesn't make them some kind of magic gurus, nor does it make your own understanding of the systems and processes involved somehow inconsequential. why does it constantly have to come back to this purely psychogenic, oh, nobody reads, oh, nobody can sit down a kernel, whatever the hell ? it's just not a way to go about things, nobody's achievement is diminishing your own nor does your achievement necessarily require
11:09 mp_en_viaje the putting down of others, aite ?
11:14 * asciilifeform sees trinque's pov, many times was wedged on a problem where 'i have 95% of solution but for the remaining 5 -- ugliest turd ever seen' . but must agree with mp_en_viaje -- you can't get orig text from a hash, and can't vpatch if you aint got orig
11:15 mp_en_viaje i can see his pov too, the only problem is that he picks some utterly terrible approaches.
11:18 mp_en_viaje there's this strange habit in many places in eastern europe, including romania, where peasant houses, even two room houses, get a "front room" which is never lived in. the family deposits "the good stuff" there, never uses it, goes in for two hours a year during easter or w/e.
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11:18 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923610 << i admit even considered possibility that the orig gentoo is heavy enuff and fulla stones and trinque broke teeth trying to eat. but cannot say definitively .
11:18 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 14:13 diana_coman: asciilifeform: as far as I understand it, trinque's algo is http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923467 aka in a way the precise opposite: we don't actually have cuntoo at all; we have (genesised) just a map and the rest is a sort of "for illustration purpose only"
11:19 mp_en_viaje whatever its merits from a religious pov, it's fucking insanely inconvenient. what am i supposed to say here, "oh, now that we have v, let's not use it, and instead work on everything outside of v" ? and what... let's design... u, for preparatory work for v ? and what, make it different from v /
11:19 asciilifeform at one pt i thought same re asciilifeform vs. trb . ( then mp_en_viaje unwedged me , he had bdb notes , '14 )
11:19 mp_en_viaje i recall.
11:20 asciilifeform ( for n00bz -- trb was 'tank w/out treads' for, iirc, 1st 6+ months, until this )
11:20 mp_en_viaje "works ok on railroad rails!"
11:20 asciilifeform aaha
11:21 asciilifeform if 'portage' cannot be cut into vtronicizable parts, it'll have to be thrown, tertium non datur
11:24 mp_en_viaje i might be wrong, but as far as i can see portage will work just fine on a pressed pile of code.
11:24 asciilifeform if accept '100MB genesis' , then most of 'portage' is actually redundant, and as i understand whole thing can be replaced with a slightly mechanized vtron
11:25 mp_en_viaje possibly.
11:25 mp_en_viaje i dunno dood, part of the problem of this is that until we see it we haven't seen it.
11:25 asciilifeform ( for folx innocent of classical gentooism -- the main function of 'portage' is to walk dependency chain ~between proggies~ and build'em in correct order. )
11:26 mp_en_viaje asciilifeform, it's entirely possible we'll end up with a ~pile~ of genesises.
↖
11:26 asciilifeform already have pile
11:26 mp_en_viaje yes.
11:26 asciilifeform q is whether also can have vtronic 'cartilage' to connect the stones in the pile.
11:26 mp_en_viaje and phf's drop down list is getting crowded
11:27 asciilifeform was 19 items last saw
11:28 mp_en_viaje in other sads, Berlekamp bit it back in april apparently.
11:28 asciilifeform ( lotsa things that oughta be in it, tho, aint -- e.g. ave1's gnat, my kernels, etc. cuz nuffin to patch against )
11:29 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: i recall finding that comba died right when was writing comba's algo.
11:30 mp_en_viaje the gardner set's pretty much gone
11:30 asciilifeform on bright side, 'lizard' set also thinning, e.g. last week -- perot
11:31 mp_en_viaje that, incidentally, is the worst stone to swallow, for me. say what i might about "oh, symbolics/whatever people were idiots", sure, why not. but these guys, they FUCKING TRIED getting math torch passed. and i know of no way it could've been done better.
11:31 mp_en_viaje but... not passed.
11:31 asciilifeform requires to have to-whom, neh
11:31 mp_en_viaje nfi.
11:31 mp_en_viaje supposedly there's always to whom. but ... in practice...
11:31 asciilifeform !#s rabbit hat
11:31 a111 21 results for "rabbit hat", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=rabbit%20hat
11:35 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923625 << was a sort of cheat tho, the genesis did not actually include bdb etc ~textually~ . so maintained illusion of 'trb is this 300kB of shitoshi'
11:35 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 14:57 mp_en_viaje: and yes, it included fucking bdb, as well as all sorts of stupid crap, which no, nobody swore to this very day ; not because nobody read, either. nor do i expect anyone will ever swear to bdb trb component.
11:35 asciilifeform which , i fear , gave folx unrealistic expectation
11:36 mp_en_viaje maybe.
11:36 asciilifeform at the time i dun think there was even thought yet of 'must confiscate gcc' etc
11:36 mp_en_viaje at the time there wasn't the need. notice how all the destructoforks happened just about the time we announced v.
11:36 asciilifeform then 'ada renaissance' and suddenly 'hey gnat dunwork' and so on
11:37 mp_en_viaje was multi pronged, there's me having meltdowns over eulora not compiling either, and so on.
11:38 asciilifeform fast-fwd to nao, when asciilifeform goes into what formerly 'obvious nuttery', i.e. 'let's genesis a whole machine arch'
11:38 a111 Logged on 2019-07-18 04:09 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-17#1923138 << yep, it's what's inhibiting my otherwise natural and arguably required "holy shit wtf is this weird, stop now" reaction.
11:39 asciilifeform cuz can't see how else to avoid 'so sad, asciilifeform , you thought could gnat errywhere? how about it dunwork on arm, bahaha'
11:39 a111 Logged on 2019-07-17 12:25 asciilifeform: the incident where i glued together rk pilot plant, to only ~then~ find out that nobody knows when the fuck proper gnat will actually build arm binaries w/ working threading, was instructive.
11:40 asciilifeform ( and then! then! last nail in coffin -- rk3328 goes outta print )
11:41 asciilifeform see also e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-26#1632664 .
11:41 a111 Logged on 2017-03-26 15:03 mp_en_viaje: basically a novel vector of imperial attack seems to be this "let's take republican items and ~EXPAND~ the downstream so that siberian river attack is then feasible".
11:42 mp_en_viaje http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923569 << ruins nothing, add it as a comment file "here's your blueprint". gets the incalculable benefit of proper tooling, can now reference meaningfully.
11:42 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 13:04 trinque: but having crammed them all into the genesis ruins the "what's a linux" overview
11:46 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923635 << funnily enuff , asciilifeform's parents have 1 of these, lol
11:46 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 15:18 mp_en_viaje: there's this strange habit in many places in eastern europe, including romania, where peasant houses, even two room houses, get a "front room" which is never lived in. the family deposits "the good stuff" there, never uses it, goes in for two hours a year during easter or w/e.
11:46 mp_en_viaje good for them ; but i don't.
11:46 asciilifeform me neither
11:46 asciilifeform 'nazi submarine' right off doorstep.
11:46 mp_en_viaje should be good enough.
11:48 asciilifeform guest: 'is that.. bear trap?!' a:'what's the problem'
11:49 asciilifeform there's a scene in 1 of mp_en_viaje's fictions where almost literally depicts asciilifeform's torture room
11:49 asciilifeform can't seem to find in O(1) tho
11:50 mp_en_viaje http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923572 << dood, nevermind the "yesterday" and dramatis persona generally. last i saw stuff from you it was A DIFFERENT YEAR. what yesterday ?
11:50 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 13:05 trinque: diana_coman: I'm going to have to leave. my final point is that this "do it all perfectly and yesterday" is a great way to never go anywhere
11:51 mp_en_viaje asciilifeform, well, any detailed specifics ?
11:53 asciilifeform was scene where 2 d00dz sitting by a table, and it is full of mobos, rifle optics, cpus, unspeakable wirings, etc
11:54 asciilifeform 1 sends for daughter to come and undress an' show its wares etc
11:55 asciilifeform this kinda thing aint a point of pride for asciilifeform , would rather sit in well-tidied workbench. but in fuckholeistan where real estate costs like on space station -- even commercial labs look same.
11:56 mp_en_viaje ah yes. titless.
11:56 mp_en_viaje http://trilema.com/2018/titless/#selection-29.0-37.0
11:56 asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2018/titless/#selection-25.0-29.442 << aha!!
11:56 asciilifeform there we go.
11:56 mp_en_viaje wh ythe fuck are our selections different ?!
11:56 asciilifeform was thinking same q this morning
11:57 mp_en_viaje holy fuck wtf
11:57 mp_en_viaje the dom is not stable enough to have meaningful count!
11:57 asciilifeform currently suspect sumthing to do with verticality of asciilifeform's display
11:57 asciilifeform cant think why else just yet
11:57 mp_en_viaje mmm
11:58 asciilifeform ( complete with 'danish butt', laugh if you will. i no longer eat'em, but gotta keep the screws, 74xxx, rejected FG components, ..., ..., somewhere! )
11:59 mp_en_viaje http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/js-selector-wtf.jpg >> what i see
11:59 mp_en_viaje asciilifeform, aha, i have a bunch of them ~same reason
11:59 asciilifeform at one time i made regular visits to tobacconist, even tho do not myself cigar. to buy : boxes.
12:01 mp_en_viaje cig metal tubes pretty good for all sorta uses. decent butt dildo in a pinch too.
12:01 mp_en_viaje disease of american capitalist.
12:01 asciilifeform i found one as a boy , had nfi what it was
12:02 asciilifeform brought it to usa. later found, 'romeo & juliet' cuban, circa 1970s
12:02 asciilifeform apparently in su they were sold at one time errywhere, but sat on shelves, ~no one wanted, no one knew how to smoke'em properly
12:03 asciilifeform ( untutored folx would try to smoke'em like cig, an' choke )
12:03 asciilifeform castro's payment for the rockets.
12:04 mp_en_viaje http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923602 << yes yes. i wasn't contemplating an indictment, i mearly meant, we, sometime cca 2015, discovered that any heavy lifting re trb gotta wait, for some terraforming work.
12:04 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 13:34 asciilifeform: certainly has NOT 'stood in place since 2015' tho. i would not want to use the trb of '15 in preference to the current.
12:04 mp_en_viaje which is why we're working on build toolchains and kernels and whatnot, in lieu of, eg, trbfs.
12:04 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: 'heavy' was pretty much all '15 aha
12:04 asciilifeform (e.g. orphanage snip, 'seeds' snip)
12:05 mp_en_viaje eventually hit a wall
12:05 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: frustratingly, i have the 'trbfs'. but grrrr gnat bugola
12:05 mp_en_viaje yeswell
12:05 asciilifeform ( the O(1) tx store . )
12:05 asciilifeform tho, tbf, most of it wrote in '17
12:07 asciilifeform ( it was only then that even devised the algo, during thread w/ mp_en_viaje re 'trbi' )
12:08 mp_en_viaje this extensive travel is going to make finding shit in a few years SO fucking painful. "i wonder, did i say mircea_popescu ? mp_en_viaje ?"...
12:08 mp_en_viaje wtf am i gonna do here ;/
12:08 * asciilifeform has same problem, from back when 'butugychag' etc
12:09 mp_en_viaje we'll hafta come up with something
12:09 asciilifeform i usually end up searching for what the folx who were 'at home' had said in $thread .
12:09 asciilifeform typically nails it.
12:15 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923618 << if i recall, they're sitting in same common grave / salt mine in tx somewhere, atm
12:15 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 14:46 mp_en_viaje: just up and start "telling what work" in trilema, ESPECIALLY seeing how you've not so far done such an impressive job "telling what work" in #trinque, so as to, for instance, rescue ben_vulpes from his grave.
12:16 mp_en_viaje well, the reason i don't really know what's going on would be that... never said.
12:16 asciilifeform ( i dun think the particulars were ever detailed , but evidently salt mine that dun leave much juice left when whistle blows in evening )
12:17 mp_en_viaje i guess so.
12:18 asciilifeform iirc ben actually had own shop, in the north, but then moved south for moarmoolah
12:18 asciilifeform but nuffin else was said.
12:18 asciilifeform 'golden age' of ben in re trb etc was when was in own shop .
12:30 mp_en_viaje http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-20#1827498 lol, historical bv
12:30 a111 Logged on 2018-06-20 00:43 ben_vulpes: and so the girlies shack up with other girlies, the boys retire to secular onasteries, and they all think it precisely tits.
~ 2 hours 58 minutes ~
15:28 mp_en_viaje in other sads, rotten.com is gone ?!
~ 26 minutes ~
15:55 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: since '17
15:55 asciilifeform was home of e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-08#1912124
15:55 a111 Logged on 2019-05-08 23:20 asciilifeform: grr i was gonna add that famous lathe meat-wind pic to this thread, but cannot nao find.
15:57 mp_en_viaje do you recall that arguably famous-er pic of the guy on the er table with hips turning cyanotic hugging a telephone pole up his ass ?
↖
15:57 asciilifeform almost certainly saw
15:58 mp_en_viaje seems it's gone also.
15:59 asciilifeform net o'brokenlinx
16:06 mp_en_viaje in other horrible news : it's confirmed, the selection thing is ~~~BROWSER SPECIFIC~~~
16:07 mp_en_viaje the fucking cuntheaded imbecile anti fucking human MORONS made it so you can't, actually, have in-page reference that works reliably.
16:07 mp_en_viaje selection thing works by counting dom elements, and, guess the fuck what, different browsers build the thing differently, resulting in different counts.
↖
16:07 asciilifeform it's a wonder that even displaying text worx reliably
16:08 mp_en_viaje what the fuck am i going to do
16:09 asciilifeform when i was sawing the thing apart , thought 'why not make selector search for start/end chars until finds unique, then sel displayer ditto' but did not get to trying this
↖
16:10 asciilifeform possibly someone handy with jsism could attempt ( lobbes ? )
16:10 mp_en_viaje what if i want to select the third duck in duckduckduck ?
16:11 asciilifeform if this is the ~only~ text on the page, then start='duck', end='duck' neh
16:11 asciilifeform ( if not -- 'xyzduck' and 'duckpqr' respectively, where xyz/pqr are context)
16:11 mp_en_viaje this completely the fuck fucked me over thoyugh, 100+ links, hand picked all, now useless.
16:11 asciilifeform not necessarily useless, could autoconvert to $form
16:11 asciilifeform i'ma defo do mine, if this is baked
16:12 mp_en_viaje fucking insanity.
16:12 asciilifeform mountain of insanity, 100km tall
16:12 asciilifeform is what www browserism is.
16:12 mp_en_viaje asciilifeform, so your idea is, recursive search ? user selects "duck" in abcduckefg, the script tries "c" sees if unique, if yes uses, if not tries bc, if unique uses if not abc etc ?
↖
16:13 asciilifeform ( after google bought opera & buried in cement, became 'de facto standard' microshit-style. nao behaves 100% like 1990s microshit, does whateverthefuck it wants )
16:13 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: correct
16:13 asciilifeform idea is, selector knows what the selection is, when it is made, ~that~ part worx errywhere
16:13 mp_en_viaje and it'd look like #selection-abc-efg
16:14 asciilifeform could possibly compress for link shortening, but yes
16:14 mp_en_viaje should prolly compress, to avoid comma in url.
16:15 mp_en_viaje who else is there, billymg ? Mocky ? either of you got a moment to do this ?
16:16 mp_en_viaje asciilifeform, if you compress, now stuck putting lzw, in js, on every page
16:16 asciilifeform who said lzw.
16:16 mp_en_viaje whartever compress you use.
16:16 asciilifeform simple run-length encode worx as well
16:16 mp_en_viaje i guess that's not so lengthy
16:17 asciilifeform coupla ln of jshit , i expect
16:18 * asciilifeform loox in his notebook and finds also 'hm why not let mp-wp highlight selects on server-end, so machines w/out js display highlights' but also never attempted this, notenuff phpfu
16:19 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: re select, potentially you can get away with storing only left side + character count
16:19 mp_en_viaje i honestly like this better.
16:19 asciilifeform e.g. 'duck+4'
16:19 asciilifeform tru, left+right makes for human-readable selector
16:20 asciilifeform potentially can decode on box where no js, by hand grep
16:20 mp_en_viaje highlight selects on server end, hmmmm
16:20 asciilifeform see, i fuckinhate js
16:20 asciilifeform have it switched off on most boxen
16:20 mp_en_viaje problem is, ss selection will look weird.
16:20 asciilifeform how so ?
16:21 mp_en_viaje now you're stuck with "how will fucktardedbrowser display"
16:21 asciilifeform no more so than w/ js selectism neh
16:21 asciilifeform make it look exactly same, if liek
16:21 asciilifeform i haven't yet found browser that doesn't render text colour when asked
16:22 mp_en_viaje local "select" behaviour is always defined, but afaik there's no exposed "make it look selected" call
16:23 mp_en_viaje asciilifeform, of course, if one's doing server side no need to grep, count start, count end
16:23 asciilifeform naturally not. you'd have to put in e.g. <span style="blah">....</span> or whatnot. and 'anchor' so thing scrolls to it.
16:23 mp_en_viaje the dom construction / abomination varies, but my articles are still mysql fields, unchanged
16:24 asciilifeform and correct, if server-end munge, you dun need the displayer js at all
16:24 asciilifeform only need js for select-maker
16:24 asciilifeform ( would do roughly same thing as presently, but munge the url in browser so when loaded, gives server-end selectified copy )
16:25 asciilifeform bonus, in machine log could see what readers like to select.
16:26 asciilifeform all of this may or may not be worth the effort. but perhaps worth to try.
16:26 * asciilifeform brb:teatime
~ 31 minutes ~
16:57 * asciilifeform peeks at the nfs forum crapola; nao with 'nya-nya' from peanut gallery, bonus.
↖
16:57 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 02:30 asciilifeform: aaand their reply .
~ 24 minutes ~
17:22 mp_en_viaje in continuing sads : /me attempted to spec the server side php job ; and it can be done, roughly, there exist primitives for, eg, "insert this after nth word and that after mth word". however : a) this interferes with the footnotes, because footnotes exist as z (( b)) and not as displayed on page ; and b) there's no good way to # and ? at the same time because of the way trilema handles title-urls.
17:22 asciilifeform i thought footnotes were html anchors
17:22 asciilifeform or is this in re the internal representation
17:23 mp_en_viaje the internal representation.
17:23 asciilifeform ugh
17:23 mp_en_viaje server side amirite.
17:23 mp_en_viaje a ((b)) c ((d)) appears as a b --- c d on-page.
17:24 mp_en_viaje and there's also no way to have trilema.com/article-title/?start=5&end=7#selection
17:25 mp_en_viaje can has trilema.com/article-title/?start=5&end=7 OR trilema.com/article-title/#selection but not rly both.
↖
17:25 mp_en_viaje this is so fucking broken ;/
17:26 asciilifeform could in principle trilema.com/article-title/5/7/#selection ?
17:27 asciilifeform cut it up on serv side into operands, do Right Thing
17:37 mp_en_viaje ah that's an idea huh.
17:38 * asciilifeform has nfi whether this is trivial to implement , or headache
17:38 asciilifeform the thing already cuts into /-separated chunks, tho, neh.
17:41 mp_en_viaje nfi either, but we find out soonish
17:42 asciilifeform upstack: imho best form would be 100% plaintext, sumthing like trilema.com/article-title/rubber/ducky/ . then! can also ~select~ by hand crank, without jsism, if want , on box w/out jsism
17:44 asciilifeform ( down side -- would need the backend to search with ignoring of spaces, commas, etc )
17:46 * diana_coman gave all computers around work to do for the next hours so she goes happily to sleep.
17:47 asciilifeform goodnight diana_coman
17:47 mp_en_viaje nn
17:47 mp_en_viaje asciilifeform, that'll never work though, because obviously it'll try to find an article by that name
17:48 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: why's that ? name is what's b/w the 1st 2 / , neh ?
17:48 asciilifeform /article/title/
17:48 asciilifeform err,
17:48 asciilifeform /article-title/
17:48 asciilifeform why would it matter what's after the 2nd / ?
17:48 mp_en_viaje afaik the name's hacked into an article via htaccess, which is yet another pointless and poorly specified scripting lang atop the shit tower
17:48 asciilifeform hrm
17:49 * asciilifeform tried several times, never got his htaccess thing to work correctly, hence why still has barbarian ?=xyz titles
17:49 mp_en_viaje consider some simple examples : http://trilema.com/pili works, takes one to http://trilema.com/2016/pili/ which is the cannonical form. http://trilema.com/pil also works
17:49 mp_en_viaje so does http://trilema.com/2016/pili/441222/ ; however neither http://trilema.com/2016/pili/441/222/ nor http://trilema.com/2016/pili/441-222/ work
17:50 asciilifeform unsurprisingly they dunwork ~now~ , but could be made ?
17:50 * asciilifeform does not know how, exactly, so will have to leave it there
17:51 asciilifeform the proposed format aint mathematically ambiguous, i can write it as regexp say. but whothefuckknows what the programmatic liquishit getting in the way might be.
17:52 mp_en_viaje well, here's the thing -- IF you move the "extract data from uri" into php, you lose... url replacement.
17:52 mp_en_viaje the ~only~ way to have that indirection layer, is to use htaccess
17:52 mp_en_viaje i mean obviously one could modify apache to be less fucked in the head, but ...
17:52 asciilifeform loox like finally a potential justification for spyked's thing
17:53 mp_en_viaje it does, at that.
17:53 mp_en_viaje as things stand, the ~only~ way to have user think url is "trilema/pili" while url really is trilema?p=65 or w/e it truly is, is via htaccess, which is like javascript written by monkeys in 1980
17:54 asciilifeform rright, just thinkin' about .htaccess makes asciilifeform's stomach go
17:54 asciilifeform pretty typical specimen of 'we ameritards, did it over friday beer an' pizza' kludge
17:55 mp_en_viaje in theory you could possibly htccess script-fu something like domain/a/b/c into domain?q=a&w=b&e=c ; HOWEVER, the problem is the domain space is currently narrow.
17:56 asciilifeform mp_en_viaje: what if sel operands were to go on ~left~ side ?
17:56 mp_en_viaje eg, trilema has implicit search, if you type in trilema.com/pus you instaget http://trilema.com/2018/pushing-the-soft-flesh-and-so-on-against-the-so-and-so-blades-of-the-immutable-machine-etcetera-second-installment/
17:56 mp_en_viaje and i use this ~extensively~
17:56 mp_en_viaje in fact, it might be the one thing on the web i most use.
17:56 asciilifeform e.g. trilema.com/rubber/ducky/2018/pushing-the-soft-flesh-and-so-on-against-the-so-and-so-blades-of-the-immutable-machine-etcetera-second-installment/
17:56 asciilifeform then narrow domain for'em, and can easily detect whether present
17:57 mp_en_viaje asciilifeform, admire the weird : http://trilema.com/2016/44/pili and trilema.com/2016/44/32/21/11/pili/ respecrtively
17:58 asciilifeform trilema.com/foo/bar/2016/44/32/21/11/pili/ btw loads even nao...
17:58 asciilifeform ~correctly~
17:58 asciilifeform nao all you'd need is to pluck out that foo and bar
17:59 asciilifeform and use'em to bake highlight
17:59 mp_en_viaje moreover, with prefix, what do you do with trilema.com/4 ? currently it (correctly) finds http://trilema.com/2012/40-vs-80/
17:59 asciilifeform ( iirc php gives you copy of full url ? )
17:59 mp_en_viaje asciilifeform, it does not load, it just wipes your string
17:59 asciilifeform ah so if the page renderer asks for url, it dun see foo, bar ?
17:59 asciilifeform (i.e. gets eaten by htaccessism ? )
17:59 mp_en_viaje o fuck me, it MUST see it
17:59 asciilifeform gotta, neh
17:59 mp_en_viaje ok this might be major breakthrough here
18:00 mp_en_viaje tjhis, incidentally, is EXACTLY how tower of shit was even built in the first palce
18:00 asciilifeform towers o'shit are cumulative, noose at 11..
18:00 mp_en_viaje now ima tell someone "look what weird shit we found, USE IT" and they won't dare say "why"
18:01 asciilifeform 'new shithouse will be built from bricks of the one we blew up'(tm)(r)(lenin)
~ 1 hours 45 minutes ~
19:46 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923536 << yes, and "cuntoo" would've contained it if I took the wad-of-shit-in-genesis approach.
19:46 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 12:51 asciilifeform: trinque: it's 'gordian knot' that has to be cut ~somehow~. consider, as of yet asciilifeform cannot vtronicize that kernel patch, cuz... no kernel genesis.
19:47 trinque I started from an item that was 900mb and that was just the ebuild tree.
19:50 trinque not having to be able to read vpatches is, lets say retrospectively declarative.
19:50 trinque at the very least I'd want to say "this is the one with kernel in it"
19:53 BingoBoingo So, it appears Iran took two British ships and released one with a warning.
↖
19:54 trinque at any rate no, I'm not doing a man-month of rework on the thing any time soon. not standing in the way of anyone else doing it either.
19:55 asciilifeform trinque: iirc we don't yet even have a vdiff that'd eat 900M
19:55 asciilifeform even if 'yes want'
19:56 asciilifeform i.e. it's a theoretical (if somewhat burning) q, rather than 'ohnoez, trinque Did It All Wrong'
20:05 trinque and I don't fault mp_en_viaje his ideological rigor. not in the slightest.
20:18 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923622 << the whole rest of history then requires this multi-gb genesis long after the resultant item has been carved to however many mb
↖
20:18 a111 Logged on 2019-07-19 14:52 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923552 << exactly. it is marginally better than merely dropping portage on their head ; and it is ideologically defensible because guess what, if they don't like the genesis they don;t have to either patch on it or press it.
20:19 asciilifeform trinque: indeed does. bitter pill. but sorta like bitcoin requires that 300GB (an' counting) of liquishit, 4evah
20:19 trinque rather than having a perforation point which can be torn off, preserving the references for whichever historian that cared, but *not importing the shitwad into the future indefinitely* was the point
20:20 trinque asciilifeform: the vtree for bitcoin is not and never will be 300gb
20:20 asciilifeform i meant the blox, trinque
20:20 asciilifeform it's the same thing, imho, the cost of being able to trace the history to birth of universe, is having to keep it around
20:21 trinque this regresses infinitely.
20:21 asciilifeform nao what i'd really like is to ditch the idjit unixdiff's reversible deletions
20:21 asciilifeform where if you snip a MB, ~that patch~ now weighs 1MB+
20:21 asciilifeform there's no fucking point to that, if we keep genesis of orig
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20:22 asciilifeform trinque: how does 'regress infinitely' ? plox to elaborate
20:23 trinque by way of example, why does your p not contain gnat
20:23 trinque and inb4 IT WILL, I know!
20:23 trinque why doesn't it today?
20:23 asciilifeform imho this is the real open q in the thread -- how to represent relation b/w nominally separate proggies
20:24 asciilifeform each of which by all logic wants to be sep. vtree, but are dependent functionally
20:24 asciilifeform if can solve this cleanly, can then be rid of portage, even, in principle
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20:25 trinque this I think correctly runs afoul of mp_en_viaje's "there is only one fucking tree, and it does not loop"
20:26 trinque see, I'm this perverse fellow that knows the scripture even.
20:26 trinque and agrees, yet sins
20:27 trinque asciilifeform: the point being yes, we can be rid of portage, but where are the steps between there and here.
20:27 trinque might as well say what I'm doing with my time lately, which is related. I'm horking down bitcoins by the $10k, what
20:36 asciilifeform i suppose beats alternative where burning life in salt mine and ~not~ piling up coin
20:41 trinque it's shitty, lol, but what am I going to hold when I'm 40.
20:43 trinque upstack, trying to capture linux in this manner might've been a fool's errand. might be that a muntzed kernel and a busybox-like are a saner beachball to eat.
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20:44 asciilifeform is actually all i got atm in the mips thing -- busybox
20:44 trinque I've lived in it, isn't so bad
20:44 asciilifeform ( + 'dhrystone' lol )
~ 34 minutes ~
21:18 BingoBoingo !Qlater tell diana_coman http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/XRfoU/?raw=true
21:18 lobbesbot BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
~ 36 minutes ~
21:54 asciilifeform trinque: thinking about it, 1 possible answer to the puzzler is to make an entire orchestra as 1 vtree.
21:54 asciilifeform trinque: the obv. toothbreaking stone is gnat.
21:57 asciilifeform iirc at one time mp suggested this, 'there oughta be ONE genesis'
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21:57 asciilifeform but iirc this was before we even gnat'd
22:06 trinque I'd be surprised if that stone doesn't haul in all the rest
22:09 asciilifeform trinque: to expand -- currently gnat srcball aint a complete description of gnat. i.e. it demands existing gnat. iirc was described pedantically in old thrd.
22:10 asciilifeform mipsism is a half-solution, of sorts, in that can build a mipsistic gnat and then will execute anywhere you can port the 12kB emu to
22:10 asciilifeform but not 'troo' solution
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22:10 asciilifeform afaik nobody has troo solution of yet.
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