Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-08-27 | 2017-08-29 → ↓
00:12 BingoBoingo !~bcstats
00:12 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 482307 | Current Difficulty: 8.88171856257E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 483839 | Next Difficulty In: 1532 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 9 hours, 57 minutes, and 43 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
00:16 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F56C06F50CA642FFEBE26155AE8715AA520DB5DA7D3F85021F43866AA14E1F69 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1021...0923 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '91.109.28.51 (ssh-rsa key from 91.109.28.51 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (s445.deinprovider.de. DE)
00:16 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F56C06F50CA642FFEBE26155AE8715AA520DB5DA7D3F85021F43866AA14E1F69 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1220...4639 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '91.109.28.51 (ssh-rsa key from 91.109.28.51 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (s445.deinprovider.de. DE)
~ 26 minutes ~
00:43 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C376A7AC72465727A5D5ECC12B096A812963EAEDD5896FD486D55178BA749249 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1367...8667 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '207.162.8.196 (ssh-rsa key from 207.162.8.196 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CA QC)
00:43 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/C376A7AC72465727A5D5ECC12B096A812963EAEDD5896FD486D55178BA749249 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1592...9353 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '207.162.8.196 (ssh-rsa key from 207.162.8.196 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown CA QC)
00:49 mircea_popescu neinprovider
01:00 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: dude scrollwork
01:00 ben_vulpes we're dying over here
01:01 ben_vulpes $girl in further stitches over panel seven of haft
01:01 ben_vulpes "this woman is a treasure"
01:01 mircea_popescu oglaf author ? totally.
~ 3 hours 21 minutes ~
04:23 mircea_popescu and speaking of satisfied adult women, http://68.media.tumblr.com/d8e4b46963d6b6d59cbd75901616b80c/tumblr_nmrks14w1M1revz5to1_500.gif
~ 6 hours 7 minutes ~
10:31 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703794 << i thought it was named for the obvious, der sturmer
10:31 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 02:25 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> which one was stormfront again ? << The forum for which the Weev Daily Stormer was named, but no relation
~ 42 minutes ~
11:13 shinohai https://twitter.com/LukeDashjr/status/901920245446832129
11:13 shinohai lulzy
~ 1 hours 2 minutes ~
12:16 asciilifeform shinohai: 'What's the latest on Mircea? I've not heard about him in a while.' 'I think his followers actually kind of excommunicated him after he lost their bitcoins. I don't pay much attention to them though.' << didjaknow !
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12:18 shinohai Some people shouldn't be allowed to think.
12:18 asciilifeform i dun see any thinking in there
12:26 asciilifeform !~later tell ben_vulpes http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Gy3K7/?raw=true
12:26 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
~ 1 hours 3 minutes ~
13:30 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: ack
~ 1 hours 59 minutes ~
15:30 asciilifeform in other lulz, https://archive.is/n1IbD >> 'The training of today’s SWOs was further eroded by the Pentagon’s focus on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Before 2010, many Navy officers who were expected to learn on the job were not on ships at all. During critical times in their professional development, they were taken away from their ships and sent to serve as individual augmentees with soldiers and Marines fighting in land-bas
15:30 asciilifeform ed operations.'
15:40 BingoBoingo Now that's Qntra worthy
~ 23 minutes ~
16:03 asciilifeform in other noose, https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/usenixsecurity17/sec17-tang.pdf >> http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Gw8Sr/?raw=true << ever wonder what 'power management' controller is actually for ? ( answer: fault injection, so nsa can help your, e.g., chineseremaindertheorem-using rsatron, shit out privkey )
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16:11 asciilifeform !!up kanzure
16:11 deedbot kanzure voiced for 30 minutes.
16:11 kanzure greetings
16:12 kanzure where precisely do i go to pitch mircea on eugenics 2.0?
16:12 asciilifeform here. when he wakes up.
16:12 kanzure alright well that's lame.
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16:12 asciilifeform or you can speak now and he'll read the logz and maybe answer.
16:12 kanzure i have begun to master the art of sleeptyping so sleep is no longer an inconvenience
16:13 asciilifeform kanzure: logs, incidentally, live at http://btcbase.org/log and elsewhere.
16:13 kanzure yeah maybe not appropriate for public logs at the moment
16:13 asciilifeform i'll also warn that neither mp nor most of the folks here, engage in 'private' conversation with folx they do not know.
16:14 kanzure should i be hurt that he doesn't know me?
16:15 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/08/exposed-us-navy-officer-corps-not-very-good-at-boating/ << Qntra - Exposed: US Navy Officer Corps Not Very Good At Boating
16:15 asciilifeform i can't speak for him, but i only very vaguely know you, kanzure , through n-th degree meatspace .
16:15 BingoBoingo kanzure: What's the worst that happens if you pitch in a public log?
16:16 kanzure basically i sat down and tried to figure out what is the most controversial idea i could possibly construct
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16:16 kanzure i am proposing an aggressive timeline like 100 designer baby genomes by 2030 and then 1 million designer babies by 2045
16:16 kanzure here's some background on plausible modifications that are aleady well known http://diyhpl.us/wiki/genetic-modifications/
16:19 kanzure so i guess to answer your question, ethnic cleansings?
16:19 asciilifeform re the linked piece, i'm not satisfied with the direction of the causal arrow having been established
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16:20 kanzure well in many cases the mutations listed on that page have not been documented (on that page) as impacting positively or negatively. so the document should not be considered a definitive lookup table.
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16:20 kanzure and also the effect size is minimal in many cases.
16:22 asciilifeform picture if some martian got a hold of a number of pc and gave them same treatment as the geneticists : 'mov rar, [ecx + ebx] at 0x40000000 associated with 0.5% increased memory allocator performance !!1111'
16:22 asciilifeform *rax
16:23 asciilifeform but somehow same thing does not appear ridiculous to literate folx, when done in meat ??
16:23 kanzure yes a lot of biology is stupid i'm not sure what your concern is
16:23 asciilifeform concern is that literally the entire document linked earlier, is ~content-free
16:23 BingoBoingo lol, this is their take on a common mutation: "The polymorphisms rs1800497 and rs2283265 (also known as the Taq1a polymorphism) near the dopamine receptor 2 (DRD2) gene are associated with improvements during working memory training. (rs1800497(C;C) better avoidance of errors). However this polymorphism comes with serious tradeoffs: antisocial, borderline, dissocial, and avoidant personality disorders, addictive and impulsive behaviors s
16:23 BingoBoingo uch as binge eating, pathological gambling, and drug abuse. (more)"
16:23 asciilifeform and that we know jack shit re the effects of the loci UNTIL SOMEBODY TOGGLES'EM AT WILL
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16:23 asciilifeform in man
16:23 kanzure yes well online interactive toggling is also a possible thing
16:24 asciilifeform lolwat
16:24 kanzure anyway, you don't need to focus merely on small mutations, you can also voluntarily delete chunks of chromosomes or whatever
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16:24 kanzure optogenetics is one way of interactive toggle (usuaully using neuronal receptors but there are other techniques such as light-sensitive cas9/recombinases/etc)
16:24 asciilifeform this happens ordinarily, neh
16:24 asciilifeform so far the volume of ~interesting~ result with meaningful pvalue, is -- afaik -- 0
16:25 asciilifeform which suggests that ~whole field consisted of 1 part 1980s tech ( largely working on ecoli ) to 99 parts hypolade.
16:25 kanzure wwc1 t/t carriers tend have >19% improvement in working memory performance
16:26 asciilifeform people over 2 metres tall, same
16:26 asciilifeform but where is the causative link ?
16:26 kanzure also, i am part of hgp-write (basically human genome project 2.0) one of our projects is removing 7 codons from the genome to render human biology impervious to all existing viruses.
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16:26 kanzure where's your "causual link" now
16:26 kanzure http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/hgp-write/2016-05-10/ultra-safe-cell-line/
16:26 kanzure http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/hgp-write/2016-05-10/synthesizing-a-prototrophic-human-genome/
16:26 kanzure http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/hgp-write/2016-05-10/recoding-ecoli-to-57-codons/
16:27 asciilifeform this was worked as ancient sf plot : breed 'nonvirusable' folx, then plaguenuke everybody else
16:27 asciilifeform i suspect -- difficult to reduce to practice.
16:27 kanzure well there's some ecoli results for you.
16:28 asciilifeform very, very easy, to make $tech work on... paper.
16:28 kanzure ecoli is an actual biology
16:28 kanzure thanks for playing
16:29 asciilifeform even ecoli is picky
16:29 * BingoBoingo suggests sticking to the basics. P53 overexpression, Myostatin inhibition, and let the dice go on everything else
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16:29 asciilifeform kanzure: i and ~50 other folx, lost jobs, because it proved ~impossible to persistently force $valuableprotein secretion in ecoli
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16:30 asciilifeform for our particular value of $protein
16:30 kanzure pore secretion?
16:30 asciilifeform kanzure: objective was to economically make (by the kg) a (modified) butyrylcholinesterase
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16:31 asciilifeform ( this is in the l0gz somewhere, ancient thread , if you give a damn )
16:31 kanzure i read all logs everywhere. it's sort of my thing.
16:31 asciilifeform at any rate, if kanzure knows how to make, e.g., transgenic muscle men, or thicker bone, etc. he should not settle for small change, go, make
16:32 asciilifeform the money bathtubs await
16:32 asciilifeform and learn chinese.
16:32 kanzure well i was thinking about just going for the heart of the whole thing (designer genomes/eugenics) and go after those bathtubs
16:32 asciilifeform 1st step, as i understand : chinese.
16:32 kanzure jihan has been quite friendly so far
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16:32 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/ << Trilema - The Day of Failure Trilemma
16:33 asciilifeform i have nfi who is jihan
16:33 kanzure just some guy it doesn't matter
16:33 asciilifeform oh here he is!
16:33 shinohai asciilifeform: He is one of Roger Ver's Chinese muppets
16:34 mircea_popescu i got a fucking headache.
16:34 mircea_popescu wassup
16:34 kanzure i don't know any hereditary magic tricks to eliminate headaches but that should be doable.
16:35 kanzure first you have to kill everyone who has ever had a headache...
16:35 mircea_popescu don't be ridiculous, it's cocktail flu.
16:35 mircea_popescu well, unless i am actually coming down with something.
16:36 * shinohai recommends 2 excederin and a bottle or 3 of Gatorade ....
16:36 mircea_popescu the problem with hanging out with sluts is well known to soccer moms. kids are fine, you're fucking dead.
16:36 mircea_popescu shinohai if i lived in a jivilized country with jews in it i'd just have some cabbage juice. sadly, no cellars here. too hot, too wet.
16:37 shinohai "Cabbage Jewz"
16:37 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: large peltier with drain hose ~cured my 'too hot, too wet'
16:37 asciilifeform might work foryou also.
16:38 mircea_popescu i guess. there's an inch of soil and under that basalt, you understand. there's a reason jungle soil is poor -- all of it gets washed into ocean.
16:38 mircea_popescu and in other shit i will now randombly whine about : i bought these coasters, right ? cuz i was in some random mall picking up some chick and we went in an "upscale" libreria and well, i dunno, i impulse bought some fucking coasters. she thought they were expensive.
16:39 asciilifeform they were golden, or wat
16:39 mircea_popescu here's the problems with "expensive, upscale" coasters : they're not a square of cut up cork, like you'd expect if they were you know, uncivilised, unglamorous, un-internet-of-things orcfare. no. they're a thin strip of cork glued to cardboard with some shiny drawings on top.
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16:40 mircea_popescu cuz i TOTALLY need pretty colorful pictures on my fucking coasters, lest my brain turns off or some shit.
16:40 * asciilifeform actually has some gold coasters. ( they're dud mitsui cd-r, gold, yes ! )
16:40 mircea_popescu now : the sheen on the top adheres to wet glasses, which in this climate is ALL of them. so you get floating coasters.
16:40 mircea_popescu AND the dumbass cardboard gets destroyed by water.
16:40 kanzure about to get unvoiced i think. could someone offer mircea_popescu a link to the right place in the logs for the eugenics war.
16:40 asciilifeform kanzure: you got 10min or so, why not let's have it ?
16:40 asciilifeform what've you got ?
16:41 kanzure oh my god i am bad at math
16:41 mircea_popescu THIS is what your money's fucking buying omfg, "i live in the country so i can spend 80k a year on renting a cardboard box and have nice coasters which are worse than a fucking pile of dried goat shit"
16:41 mircea_popescu kanzure i read the logs anyway.
16:41 kanzure wait my math is fine
16:41 mircea_popescu lol
16:41 mircea_popescu !!up kanzure
16:41 deedbot kanzure voiced for 30 minutes.
16:41 kanzure fuckers
16:42 asciilifeform tempus fugit..
16:43 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703817 << ahaha what is this dumb shit ?
16:43 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 16:16 asciilifeform: shinohai: 'What's the latest on Mircea? I've not heard about him in a while.' 'I think his followers actually kind of excommunicated him after he lost their bitcoins. I don't pay much attention to them though.' << didjaknow !
16:43 asciilifeform kanzure: mike w promised myostatin inhibitor to me in 2007 !!1111 where is it ?!
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16:43 mircea_popescu really, "i wonder what happened to the clouds, i've not been out of basement for a decade, poor clouds, they must be faring poorly"
16:43 kanzure asciilifeform: i have someone else working on a very similar project these days. it's in progress.
16:43 kanzure asciilifeform: turns out you have to actually pay people to do things
16:44 asciilifeform evidently that ain't enough, or, e.g., software would work
16:44 asciilifeform ( picture if programmers were only paid for ~working~ soft... )
16:44 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703832 << what's so lame about it ?
16:44 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 20:12 kanzure: alright well that's lame.
16:45 kanzure lame about sleep?
16:45 kanzure it's hell of a way to spend one's life, that's all.
16:45 mircea_popescu oh, that's what you meant.
16:45 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703842 << why ?
16:45 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 20:16 kanzure: basically i sat down and tried to figure out what is the most controversial idea i could possibly construct
16:46 kanzure one of the genetic changes i have proposed is something that seems to cause 4-5 hours/night to be sufficient rest
16:46 kanzure mircea_popescu: well actually the origin of the idea is that i am interested in genome engineering and human enhancement technology. but i also recognize that controversy is necessary to bring attention and funding.
16:46 mircea_popescu ah come on, designer baby purse, seriously ?
16:46 asciilifeform kanzure: realize that your entire corpus of 'knowledge' is of approx same grade as 'get married, grow taller!'
16:47 mircea_popescu i take it you don't know you never read http://trilema.com/2016/i-am-firmly-against-universal-franchise/ ? and don't know you should have read it ? and so on ?
16:48 kanzure mircea_popescu: correct. i've looked at it just now but i don't see how it changes anything. shouldn't you prefer people to be hard workers, even if they can't own property?
16:48 mircea_popescu kanzure the model whereby you "attract funding" for "your idea" is fundamentally broken. i don't mean a little broken, i mean fundamentally broken -- it makes it impossible to actually have an idea, which is why your "attempt to find the most controversial conceivable notion" ended up with "what bit of fashionable nonsense could i waste my life with in the optimisitc but ultimately baseless hope it'll be worthy my or anyone's
16:48 mircea_popescu time".
16:48 mircea_popescu kanzure read the whole thing.
16:48 mircea_popescu it gets to a ~functioning~ model for designer babies.
16:48 kanzure what if i claim that i'm illiterate
16:49 mircea_popescu no, i get it, you want to single play the WoWoW.
16:49 kanzure i'm looking i'm looking.
16:50 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> don't be ridiculous, it's cocktail flu. << The doctor prescribes Bloody Mary x2
16:50 kanzure mircea_popescu: i disagree with your evaluation of whether it's a waste of time, or that it is fashionable in the least. i simply recognize the value of controversy.
16:50 kanzure and the controversy stuff is a tacky add-on, i'll admit.
16:51 mircea_popescu aite.
16:51 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo you ever had the cabbage juice btw ?
16:51 kanzure i haven't internalized your post completely so i'm not sure what you are expecting me to extract from it.
16:51 mircea_popescu kanzure do you understand how current "genetic engineering" works ? specifically why it's done to corn not sheep ?
16:52 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo the way you make this is that in a dry and cold cellar you emplace a tun, 100 liters say. then fill it with whole cabbages. then add brine and some spices. then let it sit a few months.
16:52 mircea_popescu !~google "moare de varza"
16:52 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Explozie de SANATATE in zeama de varza . Bolile care pot fi tratate ...: <http://www.aktual24.ro/explozie-de-sanatate-in-zeama-de-varza-bolile-care-pot-fi-tratate-usor-cu-moare/>; Zeama de varză murată - 3 motive să o bei - CSID: <http://www.csid.ro/diet-sport/noutati-dieta-si-sport/zeama-de-varza-murata-3-motive-sa-o-bei-11877690/>; Varza murată şi beneficiile ei uimitoare pentru organism - (1 more message)
16:52 kanzure i understand many aspects of genetic engineering. i also understand why mammalian projects are more complex.
16:52 mircea_popescu kanzure as to the question asked specifically.
16:53 kanzure it's done to many mammals i'm not sure about sheep specifically. why would sheep matter?
16:53 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Never had the cabbage juice. Twas a big fan of curing hangovers with moar booze
16:53 mircea_popescu sigh. alright, here, let me give you a primer on genetics as a tehcnological consideration, so you can impress the "what happened to mp" ass-up-buttholes with your transcendental scholarship.
16:54 kanzure they actually know nothing about you
16:54 kanzure it's sort of weird. i asked and their answer was "he's angry". i am pretty sure they are idiots.
16:54 mircea_popescu so, originally genetic experiments were carried out on mammals, hence dolly the cloned sheep. it rapidly became obvious that the only available tech ("throw shit at wall, maybe something sticks") is a terrible fit for the complexity of mammals, and there's absolutely no hope of obtaining iondustrially usable results this generation there.
16:55 kanzure yes there are many tools that are necessary to make progress, such as order-of-magnitude cheaper dna assembly and synthesis technologies.
16:55 mircea_popescu so effort was instead moved to plants, which are three degrees of magnitude simpler. there, the approach works, you blast a square mile worth of soy with random nonsense and then select the few plants still standing. which is how the whole "glycosate-resistent" craze started : it's not DESIGNER plants.
16:55 kanzure my technique of favor at the moment is inkjet-based synthesis, a writeup is here but it's a well-known technique http://diyhpl.us/wiki/dna/synthesis/notes/
16:55 kanzure yes i am aware of mutagenesis and selection techniques
16:55 mircea_popescu it's plants which have been selected for the only hopefully-economically-useful trait available. which is already a very distant push.
16:55 kanzure my preferences regarding selective breeding are documented here with some project proposals http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/2017-02-03-beacon.pdf
16:56 mircea_popescu well so if you're familiar why don't you answer when asked.
16:56 kanzure i have no idea how to speak with you
16:56 mircea_popescu this is a problem.
16:56 kanzure many would consider the illiteracy to be the primary problem
16:56 mircea_popescu back on topic : you know what uncanny valley is ?
16:57 kanzure yea. the thing where people care what looks real.
16:57 mircea_popescu the thing where getting a "designer baby" be 99.9999% identical to an actual baby makes it less tolerable than a 99% or 80% similar result ; and not a little less tolerable, EXTREMELY intolerable.
16:57 mircea_popescu in other words : you don't have the technology to even dare hope you may create one monster per million tries. what designer babies ?
16:58 kanzure i agree that the technology is missing. it should be built.
16:58 mircea_popescu this is not how technology is built.
16:58 mircea_popescu the "We did it reddit" dork got pounded saturday, did you watch the fight ?
16:58 kanzure nah
16:59 mircea_popescu anyways. did you happen to read say http://trilema.com/2017/is-it-still-rape-if-i-write-science-on-my-penis-first/#footnote_4_71619 ?
16:59 mircea_popescu technology isn't "built" in that sense, from outside.
17:00 kanzure outside of what
17:00 asciilifeform from outside of yer own two hands.
17:00 asciilifeform with which you build things.
17:00 kanzure i would argue there is a knowledge component.
17:01 kanzure i am not really sure how your epistemology works
17:01 asciilifeform i did say 'two hands', not 'four hooves', neh
17:01 mircea_popescu kanzure the idea is that there's entirely no relation between shoulding and tech building. whether it should or shouldn't, it'll go at the same rate.
17:02 mircea_popescu science, research, technology are not political outputs. they are political inputs.
17:02 kanzure you know maaku's apoliticalism right?
17:02 mircea_popescu not as such. link ?
17:02 kanzure nah no links. he just has a deep hatred of politics.
17:02 kanzure i don't think he's written about it
17:02 mircea_popescu (i have a very deep dislike for modern derps putting their name on things, though.)
17:03 * asciilifeform never once heard of a maaku
17:03 kanzure ((but since you knew bitcoin people i thought you would know, but w/e, it doesn't matter.))
17:03 mircea_popescu anyway, there's no dislike here. just the factual matter.
17:03 BingoBoingo <kanzure> you know maaku's apoliticalism right? << BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH A clash of who remembers/knows who with predictabru results
17:04 mircea_popescu kanzure my survey of the online world mostly happens in the sense intel prepares summaries which i sometimes read, but generally looking for a laugh.
17:04 kanzure i agree that should or shouldn't doesn't factor into it, but rate does change with intellectual effort
17:04 mircea_popescu no such thing.
17:04 kanzure unless you're fucking eliezer yudzilla
17:04 kanzure in which case you don't get anything done
17:04 asciilifeform kanzure: civ1 lied to you: there ain't such a thing as a 'money to discovery converter' you can shovel freshly-printed benjies into, and get transgenic mighty man out
17:04 mircea_popescu it changes with intellectual ~discipline~. thisis not the same thing as effort.
17:05 mircea_popescu and yes there's some relation between discipline as a societal construct, and politics. but this is complicated and poorly understood.
17:06 kanzure so your model is disciplined folks haphazardly dwaddling along playing around with stupid technologies until they do something that turns out to be disciplined?
17:06 mircea_popescu mno. my model is that people who are disciplined enough to behave rigurously will discover things at the rate at which this happens.
17:06 asciilifeform the number of coolies illicitly removed from their chinese rice field and paid to 'publish or perish' cock-pulling adventure in usa, has 0 impact on anything.
17:06 BingoBoingo <kanzure> unless you're fucking eliezer yudzilla << The fanfic guy?
17:07 mircea_popescu discipline is a narrower set than effort, you understand. it seems "hard" ie efortful, especially for the noob. but it is not that hard once you internalize it. the effort-seeker howevere ends up mired in your sort of activity, "what's the most mentally painful activity, that'll be REALLY putting in some effort".
17:07 mircea_popescu it's not. it's just faking the exam.
17:07 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: thiel's catamite. he even bought him a harem, so he can pretend 'just like mp!'
17:08 mircea_popescu o ? is this the guy who brave brave brave sir robert put out a fanfic challenge, then trilema blew a hole in his head and he "never heard of it" a la buffett ?
17:08 kanzure BingoBoingo: yes the fanfic guy
17:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: crackpot with looong history, goes back to '90s
17:08 asciilifeform !#s yudkowsky
17:08 a111 60 results for "yudkowsky", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=yudkowsky
17:08 kanzure https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXARrMadTKk
17:08 kanzure he's basically the gmaxwell of fearmongering about x-risk/ai
17:09 mircea_popescu oh, oh, with the independent girlfriends and the ai thing ? and the something basilisk mega-pantsuit ?
17:09 kanzure (except useless because he doesn't actually do anything)
17:09 kanzure yea those morons
17:09 kanzure anyway, i call him "yudzilla" or "big yud"
17:09 mircea_popescu a well.
17:09 BingoBoingo kanzure: And what does maaku do again, recognize the identifier, but not anything identifiable
17:09 kanzure BingoBoingo: bitcoin core stuff. it's not important really.
17:10 mircea_popescu kanzure you also read the famous piece with the "Where's the rembrandts" i take it ?
17:10 kanzure mircea_popescu: i would say my approach has been focused towards disciplined centralized technology roadmapping and planning. and then personally financing some of the projects. although it turns out that stuff is expensive and stupid.
17:10 kanzure no
17:10 mircea_popescu o.O
17:10 kanzure did you not take my illiteracy seriously
17:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform link again plox ?
17:11 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: which
17:11 mircea_popescu you recall, "where's the south african rembrandts, same size as flanders"
17:11 mircea_popescu !!key kanzure
17:11 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/0E4CA12BE16BE69156F540C9984F10CC77169FD2.asc
17:12 mircea_popescu !#s from:mirc rate kanzure
17:12 a111 4 results for "from:mirc rate kanzure", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Amirc%20rate%20kanzure
17:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-07#1563426 ?
17:12 a111 Logged on 2016-11-07 16:53 mircea_popescu: recall the "where are the rembrandts then" argument ? the us fails to produce a philosopher worth the mention every other decade ; athens managed that much on 1/1000th the population.
17:12 mircea_popescu !!rate kanzure 1 old-new blood
17:12 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/b6NyJ/?raw=true
17:12 asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2014/fata-morgana-or-the-mirage-of-a-free-and-open-market/ << mircea_popescu
17:12 mircea_popescu um wasn't mine
17:12 mircea_popescu !!v 1B741BE33650B2139657BAFB37C451AC308F32FA71ED8B6062DAF4EB38DCEBE5
17:12 deedbot mircea_popescu rated kanzure 1 << old-new blood
17:12 mircea_popescu kanzure say !!up to deedbot in private then !!v to verify the string it gives you
17:13 asciilifeform !!rated kanzure
17:13 deedbot asciilifeform rated kanzure -1 at 2014/06/21 22:40:29 << minor-league quisling; inquire within
17:13 mircea_popescu https://static.pinboard.in/webstock_2014.htm << there we go. so kanzure : fine piece as any to explain the difference between "effort" and discipline.
17:13 asciilifeform lol
17:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform give him a reprieve wouldja ?
17:13 asciilifeform yeah why not
17:14 asciilifeform !!rate kanzure 1 rezident
17:14 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/c1stg/?raw=true
17:14 mircea_popescu !!gettrust deedbot kanzure
17:14 deedbot L1: 0, L2: 1 by 3 connections.
17:14 asciilifeform !!v 9B2D09B4E781D769A3ED96E4E8DCBDD4772EF823D6E966EE7F96F32D66DE9DB5
17:14 deedbot asciilifeform updated rating of kanzure from -1 to 1 << rezident
17:15 asciilifeform there kanzure , you oughta be able to voice. try to stay interesting.
17:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform thanks for the link, it was in there happily.
17:17 mircea_popescu anyway. the other good illustration re effort/discipline for our needs here is of course the observation re possible symmetries, and how the subhuman cultures never actually discovered all of them. why noit ? they had decorative arts too, effort went in...
17:18 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-30#1690893 <<
17:18 a111 Logged on 2017-07-30 03:43 mircea_popescu: https://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/WhyAntiInt.htm
17:18 mircea_popescu there isn't a "for every million clay pots you get another one of the 17 symmetries". the right guys need twenty pots to find all of them. the polynesians or the africans will NEVER find them like they never found fucking madagascar.
17:18 mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha!
17:18 BingoBoingo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXn4_JkVFVo
17:19 mircea_popescu !#s "walid"
17:19 a111 2 results for "\"walid\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22walid%22
17:19 mircea_popescu damn. am i the only khalid al-walid fan out there ? is this possible ?
17:20 asciilifeform not the only. but possibly only one who sprechens englisch
17:20 mircea_popescu hm.
17:20 mircea_popescu !#s "napoleon"
17:20 a111 148 results for "\"napoleon\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22napoleon%22
17:21 kanzure mircea_popescu: surely you don't follow the kurzweil philosophy of "sit around and wait for people to be productive on their own"?
17:21 mircea_popescu you know, dude was a better napoleon in the sense the term's usually used. he certainly didn'\t fucking forget about a whole army corps etc.
17:21 mircea_popescu kanzure no. i keep slavegirls, whom i produce out of free ranged girls through beatings and generally speaking torture.
17:21 mircea_popescu but the effort is in the sense of cleanning, not in the sense of pushing.
17:22 kanzure isn't that sort of limited
17:22 kanzure what?
17:22 mircea_popescu limited by what ?
17:22 kanzure what outcomes are you trying to effectuate precisely
17:22 mircea_popescu i am not trying to effectuate any outcomes whatsoever.
17:22 mircea_popescu causes ; not purposes.
17:24 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo ahahaha great
17:25 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Excellent tinkerer
17:25 mircea_popescu the look on the 2nd one, you know, total precious cat "fuck, they're doing the people magic bullshit again"
17:27 BingoBoingo for real, much better than the contrived knock off https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_tk-XrXFHo
17:28 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703847 << let's have a look at what "Documenting" would look like on a topic of interest (intelligence) : http://trilema.com/2015/the-genetics-of-intelligence/
17:28 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 20:20 kanzure: well in many cases the mutations listed on that page have not been documented (on that page) as impacting positively or negatively. so the document should not be considered a definitive lookup table.
17:29 kanzure "or at least, I think discipline is more correlated than effort. You can work _very_ hard at something and make no progress because your efforts are not directed."
17:29 mircea_popescu or am i expected to think "designer" isn't to be interpreted to mean i can want a smart baby ? after all i can buy designer bags, of whichever kind, the only bags i can't buy being bags that ARE ANY GOOD. something like that ?
17:29 kanzure i actually am not interested in intelligence genetics. i am more interested in things like working memory, memory capacity, etc.
17:30 mircea_popescu so is alf, as fate has it!
17:30 kanzure the difference between a monkey and a human is interesting. the difference between human and human, as measured by iq, is totally irrelevant to me. humans are idiots if you compare them only to each other.
17:30 mircea_popescu we never had a good outing of this theme ; but it is my (probably heretical) notion that memory size dun really enter into it.
17:30 kanzure well i don't really know if memory has an actual size (that concept might be bullshit)-- what about retention, is that the same thing as size
17:31 mircea_popescu the ~only important thing is if your knowledge is structured or not ; and how. hence that older observation re dictionaries, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587276 etc.
17:31 a111 Logged on 2016-12-21 18:32 mircea_popescu: because no, words don't "have meanings". your meanings for ANY WORD are a function of ALL THE OTHER WORDS YOU KNOW. which is why my definitions regularily blow out english dictionaries, wikipedia and other sources of "wisdom" out of the water - i know more words, and in this knowledge i know all the words i know ~better~. infinitely and irreproducibly so.
17:31 asciilifeform !#s myelin
17:31 a111 13 results for "myelin", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=myelin
17:31 asciilifeform kanzure ^ somewhere in there, we had a testable hypothesis.
17:32 mircea_popescu in any case ; i am notorious for a very poor memory, including complete inability to remember say actresses names.
↖
17:32 asciilifeform re (possibly all) extant variation in various cns 'horsepower'
17:32 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i subscribe, not a bad angle. in fact, possibly best available atm.
17:32 asciilifeform it handily explains the reflex speed 'g-loadedness', for instance.
17:33 asciilifeform model axon as 'leaky feeder coax'.
17:33 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i'm sure i told the story of the dog ?
17:33 asciilifeform aha.
17:33 mircea_popescu "memory", what's that. he got a bit of memory out of his own body through structuring the environment.
17:33 kanzure intelligence or specific mutation is in the weeds; i'm still stuck trying to figure out your sense of "discipline". my approach has often been: death ray made up of delibrate effort -> problem => solution.
17:33 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: that was dog's version of writing.
17:34 mircea_popescu kanzure when i was a kid, i had a friend. he built this shambling abomination of a bar, each layer a different style, floor after floor.
17:34 mircea_popescu it was in the early days of capitalism, and well...
17:34 kanzure what was his goal
17:34 mircea_popescu anyway. he'd hire student kids to do work for him. i once watched a dozen of them, try to demolish a wall with a 60kg hammer.
17:34 mircea_popescu do you know how much effort they poured into it ? hours later, the wall was undented.
17:35 mircea_popescu the pro got there, tore it all down without breaking a sweat.
17:35 kanzure could be anywhere from zero to a lot of effort, if they made no progress. but they might also be idiots.
17:35 mircea_popescu (spoiler : the idiots were trying to push the hammer. that's not how you tear down walls.)
17:35 mircea_popescu this is then what discipline is. gotta do it ~right~.
17:35 kanzure is swinging a hammer a form of effort here? i don't know man.
17:35 kanzure yes
17:35 mircea_popescu how not ?
17:36 mircea_popescu they were fucking sweatting bullets, if that's not effort what is.
17:36 kanzure they were sweating bullets from their sheer stupidity
17:36 mircea_popescu this machine eats the same 200 W any mouthbreather's windows eats. just, mine isn't putting any of that towards animated paper clips.
17:36 kanzure (sweat only weely correlates with effort)
17:36 kanzure ..weakly.
17:37 mircea_popescu then you misuse the term. how could sweat correlate weakly with effort, it's like saying gasoline consumption correlates weakly with distance travelled.
17:37 kanzure alright well anyway, discipline seems more like a reliable metric i suppose, but go back to your insistence on causes not outcomes
17:37 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2015/causes-and-purposes/ << there.
17:38 kanzure "I don't want anything, it's a factual observation." <-- this person is lying. he was communicating for a reason.
17:38 mircea_popescu you think ?
17:39 kanzure well i suppose this is your topic of the moment. processing...
17:39 mircea_popescu does the sun also come out for a reason ?
17:39 mircea_popescu you just happened to be there when it did, that's all.
17:39 kanzure "and as such they're not only infinite and uncountable, but even undefined" but isn't this what calibration is for. you communicate with people because you are trying to callibrate collective goal behavior shit.
↖
17:39 mircea_popescu bbs.
17:40 kanzure and if the behavior is not actually generating the desired results, you go do other behavior, etc.
17:40 kanzure (or change the desires appropriately if they were stupid)
17:41 kanzure why bother listening to someone if they are just spewing irrelevant noise? bleh
17:42 trinque indeed. go read the "causes and purposes" thing.
~ 16 minutes ~
17:59 mircea_popescu come to think of it, perhaps the best conversational definition for discipline would be "the opposite of WSOD".
18:00 kanzure "do it if you feel like it" is lazy and undisciplined.
18:00 kanzure (re: "causes")
18:01 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703846 << fine example of the item at work. and yes it's hard, but it's mostly hard AMONG THE IDIOTs, who want to herp derp and muh consensuses.
18:01 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 20:19 asciilifeform: re the linked piece, i'm not satisfied with the direction of the causal arrow having been established
18:01 mircea_popescu kanzure you think ? and pray tell what's satan to pay you so that you love him ?
18:02 kanzure communication error
18:03 mircea_popescu what OTHER fucking reason than feeling like it can there be!
18:03 kanzure because you are doing it regardless of feels?
18:04 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2014/pushing-the-soft-tender-flesh-of-a-friend-against-the-sharp-rotating-blades-of-the-immutable-machine/#selection-959.491-969.11 << satan paying you to love him reference.
18:04 kanzure do you memorize bookmars like i do?
18:04 kanzure bookmars
18:04 kanzure fuc
18:04 mircea_popescu nope
18:05 mircea_popescu someone needs a new eyboard.
18:05 kanzure i was once king of the nerdpeople http://www.seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=kanzure
18:09 kanzure 'Someone, somewhere, may well possess the secret of how to build a thermonuke using the materials of ordinary electronics.' *cough*
18:11 kanzure 15:10 < kanzure> i'm a little confused. i know the prepwork is really annoying and laborious in theory. perhaps he should just mean a low-effort nuke.
18:11 kanzure 15:11 < kanzure> oh right he doesn't believe in fucking effort
18:11 kanzure (not true. i'm teasing.)
18:12 kanzure "special thyratrons"
18:12 trinque the fuck does effort have to do with purpose and generally speaking (and charitably) what point do you have?
18:14 kanzure well originally my purpose (that's right i said it) of bringing this up with mircea_popescu was to query his preferences regarding thermonuclear war err i mean eugenics err i mean direct participation in technology development for genome engineering projects
↖
18:14 kanzure there are in fact things that i do not know so i figured i would go figure those things out
18:15 kanzure if things are so willy wonka in here that one cannot apply effort to directed intentional behavior then i'm not really sure how to communicate
↖
18:17 trinque that was in no way a response to my question, and this isn't "lets all shitpost our feelings to signal how smart we are"
18:18 trinque isn't it rather that in observing your own ignorance on a subject, you were moved to appear here?
18:18 trinque so, cause.
18:18 kanzure but it can't be a purpose? okay.
18:19 trinque what'd it mean if it were a purpose?
18:19 kanzure apparently it would be invalid. but not if it's labeled a cause. that's my understanding of the feedback so far.
18:20 trinque no sort of political labeling *of reality* is going on, only labeling of a particular failure mode of the mind.
18:20 trinque *there are not* purposes.
18:21 trinque yudsy's basillisk does not flow back through time in-order-to bring about itself.
↖
18:33 phf "intelligence" "humans are idiots" "kurzweil" "working memory" "genetics" "yudkowsky". it's funny at some point you don't even need to read the log, you can figure out the particular, previously observed failure mode of a person by keywords that stand out
18:33 shinohai lol
18:39 kanzure but i like neither yudkowsy nor kurzweil :(
18:42 mircea_popescu in other lulz, here asciilifeform i got one for you : drujba in romanian ? chainsaw. and because there was that whole 80s "ask a girl for her friendship" thingee, ... "he offered me his chainsaw".
↖
18:42 mircea_popescu phf did he fail yet ?
18:44 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703856 << moreover the "effects of loci" thing is rank nonsense of the level of "here's my thermometer-based debugging tool. who wants to measure cpu quadrant temperatures as software runs ???". there's no localisation in that sense.
↖
18:44 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 20:23 asciilifeform: and that we know jack shit re the effects of the loci UNTIL SOMEBODY TOGGLES'EM AT WILL
18:45 mircea_popescu consider a simple element of historical warfare, that the us army could not reproduce today : arrow messaging. now, what is the effect of forest guard locus #48 on the court getting news of battle at hartford ? toggle it to what, taller man ?
18:47 mircea_popescu "when all the 108 men in the 40 mile line were blond, the message came that the battle was won ; but later when two of them went to eat and were replaced by guys with green eyes, the message came through that lord monmouth's daugther ran off with the circus."
18:49 phf i don't think so, this is more like figuring out that something's broken in a car by the sounds that the engine is making. doesn't mean that the car's not working anymore. it seems reasonable though that causes and purposes would be the response, since that kind of eliadism is a natural counterpoint to above... that's just my impressions though
18:49 mircea_popescu yeah
18:51 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703860 << sure. say hello to http://trilema.com/2017/hela-matter/
18:51 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 20:24 kanzure: anyway, you don't need to focus merely on small mutations, you can also voluntarily delete chunks of chromosomes or whatever
18:52 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703868 << ahahahaha this was the best line of the day.
18:52 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 20:26 kanzure: also, i am part of hgp-write (basically human genome project 2.0) one of our projects is removing 7 codons from the genome to render human biology impervious to all existing viruses.
18:53 kanzure i should not claim to be related to the codon recoding, it's a subproject that was not proposed by me
18:54 mircea_popescu boeke iirc.
18:54 kanzure and church. etc.
18:54 shinohai Wherefore removal of condoms got us all in this mess
18:55 mircea_popescu anyway. are you pursuing a microbiology phd or something kanzure ?
18:55 kanzure i am not associated with academia
18:55 kanzure i read a bunch though: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/ http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/DNA/ http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ etc
18:56 kanzure also http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bitcoin/
18:56 kanzure we do mad science: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/hplusroadmap/
18:57 mircea_popescu mkay. here's the problem : on one hand there's lieberman's very stern "forbidden to have course on nonsense" ; on the other hand people can't fucking help it that they're clueless on topics, and the sort of lulzy doodle nonsense sprouted by boetke is not HIS fault. that's, truthfully, how little we know of genetics.
18:57 mircea_popescu this is an immense chasm, which will not see productive results in your lifetime. consequently the only options open to you are to either find something else to do ; or else go into welfare.
18:58 mircea_popescu the ~only useful point of the state at this micro level is that it leaks tax money, enough so as to support hopeless research in fields not favoured by industry.
18:58 kanzure is that a broad wlfare of survitude to wealthy patrons or what
18:58 mircea_popescu hm ?
18:58 kanzure is fundraising == welfare?
18:58 mircea_popescu as contemplated here yes.
18:59 kanzure k just checking
18:59 mircea_popescu patreon, gofundme or whatever. i forget what they're all called, angel list something.
18:59 kanzure crowdfunding doesn't work (if the crowd had money then they wouldn't need crowdfunding)
19:00 mircea_popescu in my view it worked superbly -- it made britney spears the LAST of these "stars" build out of mob spending power.
19:00 mircea_popescu good fucking riddance.
19:01 kanzure she was not blessed by the noodly appendage of pre-fame wealth?
19:01 mircea_popescu iirc she was trailer trash neh ?
19:02 kanzure no idea. what happened to you not remembering celebrities.
19:02 mircea_popescu i'm slightly better with teenagers.
19:02 kanzure fair enough
19:03 kanzure "productive results" in my book include cheap genome synthesis, the results of which are easily in reach (engineers haven't even bothered to optimize inkjet firing rate. "boo hoo it overheats and we haven't tried cooling").
↖
19:03 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1704196 << mno. 'druzhba' (friendship) was THE sov-era chainsaw.
19:03 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 22:42 mircea_popescu: in other lulz, here asciilifeform i got one for you : drujba in romanian ? chainsaw. and because there was that whole 80s "ask a girl for her friendship" thingee, ... "he offered me his chainsaw".
19:03 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703880 << if only dadan karambolo microbiology worked irl!
19:03 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 20:29 BingoBoingo suggests sticking to the basics. P53 overexpression, Myostatin inhibition, and let the dice go on everything else
19:03 asciilifeform so logical -- a la 'dumpster', 'xerox'.
19:03 mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha. that's why.
19:05 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1704198 << there do exist known single-locus items. just as 'flip this byte to nop and removes the derpy copyprotection' was a thing in manmade items.
19:05 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 22:44 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703856 << moreover the "effects of loci" thing is rank nonsense of the level of "here's my thermometer-based debugging tool. who wants to measure cpu quadrant temperatures as software runs ???". there's no localisation in that sense.
19:05 asciilifeform but there are very very few of these known.
19:05 mircea_popescu yes, but how far'll get you.
19:05 kanzure mircea_popescu: specifically do those causes just not interest you (health, lifespan, memory, gene therapy, etc), or is there some sort of confusion about actual feasibility, or what
19:06 mircea_popescu kanzure i doubt there's much confusion re feasibility.
19:06 kanzure certain things are more feasible than others. and there's a lot of morons out there causing lots of noise.
19:06 mircea_popescu it's not that it's not feasible, it's that stretching your anus to accomodate trains is more feasible.
19:06 mircea_popescu the noise part is sadly quite true.
19:06 kanzure so if your feasibility assessment is based on the stupid shit you've heard before, then that's understandable
19:06 kanzure there's signal that provides information about negative results. that's not noise.
19:07 mircea_popescu kanzure appreciate what you're saying here. "mp, you're spending millions to get bad intel". rly ?
19:07 kanzure i'm not that far yet, i'm just saying "if your superpowers are limited to writing blog posts then i'm not sure what you have to offer"
19:07 kanzure e.g. no knowledge of you spending millions on anything at all
19:07 phf it is certainly because you haven't found the right pdfs
↖
19:07 kanzure oh is that the problem
19:07 mircea_popescu wait, i was offering something ?!
19:08 kanzure mircea_popescu: your blog posts offer something yes. or are you just babbling for no reason?
19:08 shinohai Rich guys don't sit around in irc all day and make blog posts!
19:08 mircea_popescu well, actually, i'm the authority here, definitionally what i'm saying can't be babbling. you've upgraded your argument from "your intel is broken" to tmsr dun werk, it's a very dubious trek.
19:08 mircea_popescu take a more productive tack, like say something concrete.
19:09 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1704234 << my q for kanzure -- why not do this with own hands ? what do you need the heathens for ? just do it. iirc you even have money. and hands. so. do. it.
19:09 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 23:03 kanzure: "productive results" in my book include cheap genome synthesis, the results of which are easily in reach (engineers haven't even bothered to optimize inkjet firing rate. "boo hoo it overheats and we haven't tried cooling").
19:09 kanzure authorities definitionally can't babble? show me how that works.
19:09 asciilifeform cool the print nozzle, make transgenic muscle army, annihilate the derps.
19:10 asciilifeform i'll even buy a ticket to watch.
19:10 kanzure asciilifeform: insufficient money i think. although this might be a bad reason. i could accept that. nobody calls me on this type of thing.
19:10 mircea_popescu kanzure " Obviously there is no possiblity of meaning outside of a structure of authority, and the authority can not be predicated on the meaning."
↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖
19:10 mircea_popescu it's in the last link, re teh HeLa.
19:10 asciilifeform kanzure: terrible reason. you'd be surprised on what can be done for almost no money.
19:11 asciilifeform FUCKGOATS, for instance, obsoleted entire pseudoindustry.
19:11 kanzure well i'm not one to argue for inflated resources, sure
19:11 mircea_popescu so far it's not altogether clear what specirfically you're arguing for tbh.
19:11 kanzure no i'm still claiming your intel is broken
19:12 mircea_popescu yes but unless you make falsifiable statements of value it's not very useful.
19:12 kanzure dna is relevant. production of synthetic dna is relevant and feasible, even if nobody promises you shakespearen genomes on day 1.
19:12 asciilifeform i remember the first time i used a pcr thermocycler and was told 'costs 8k usd', and thought 'are you all retarded, peltier on my cpu cost 10bux'
19:12 asciilifeform and afaik TO THIS DAY the 'pro' machine costs 8k
19:12 asciilifeform ( though NOW with peltier in it )
19:12 kanzure yes and then people made cheapo thermocyclers. what's wrong with that?
19:12 asciilifeform because it ain't about results, the 'field' is about spending cheap usg spendolade
19:12 asciilifeform on sinecures
19:12 kanzure (openpcr actually isn't that cheap. it's sort of annoying.)
19:13 mircea_popescu ahaha there's an open-pcr ?
19:13 kanzure yea it sucks tho
19:13 kanzure it's like adobe air + an arduino
19:13 asciilifeform lol!!
19:13 mircea_popescu phf the more amusing thing here is that only last week i was wondering where the 3d printing folk went.
19:13 kanzure and then lasercut plywood because we're all hipsters and our eyes don't bleed
19:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you gotta see this thing.
19:13 kanzure asciilifeform: here's a little project of mine, recently. https://blog.kitmatic.com/2017/06/28/electroporation-is-now-quick-high-yield-and-commodity-priced/
19:14 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: whichthing
19:14 mircea_popescu the plywood pcr
19:14 mircea_popescu shit i wish we thought of this in the early days of "fpga mining".
19:14 kanzure http://openpcr.org/
19:15 asciilifeform ^ the lulzy bit is not that it exists ( it existed 10y ago ) but that it had 0 effect on the cost of 'pro' apparatus
19:15 mircea_popescu https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/930368578/openpcr-open-source-biotech-on-your-desktop << possibly better link
19:15 shinohai Handy pic of what someone that actually uses open-pcr might look like: http://openpcr.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Picture-9.png
19:15 asciilifeform when you have an expense acct from usg.academia, you not only dun give a fuq what the instrument costs -- but the option of 'use peltier' is not even on the table
19:16 kanzure that pic was actually taken from a volunteer birdhouse assembly workshop
19:16 asciilifeform shinohai: that thing exists so that beckman et al can justify their 5figs payola for ~same thing, 'looksy, them derps'
19:16 mircea_popescu credible.
19:17 asciilifeform the 'warhol, choose can of coke on left or right' system atwork.
19:17 kanzure anyway, the reason for "infeasibility" claims is because people try to do impossible things; there have not been infeasibility claims regarding genome synthesis or assembly.
19:17 asciilifeform kanzure: the fundamental confusion is actually very similar to the one in your earlier nanotech
19:17 mircea_popescu asciilifeform how does it go around you know, polymerase getting destroyed ?
19:17 kanzure my earlier nanotech?
19:17 mircea_popescu iirc it was temperature senstivie.
19:18 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: thermocycler is just this programmable chiller/oven item. follows a curve.
19:18 kanzure asciilifeform: i rescued a silly open-source nanotech cad program from being deleted and forgotten. however, i did not fund its original development. is this the thing you're tlaing about? https://github.com/kanzure/nanoengineer
19:18 mircea_popescu ahahahaha wait, they switched to termophillic bacteria polymerase ?! god help us.
19:19 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no i know. the problem with dna amplification with it is that (on tech i recalled) the required enzyme gets periodically destroyed.
19:19 mircea_popescu but apparently, they replaced it with some sea scum.
19:19 asciilifeform kanzure: see the earlier thread re subj, yes
19:19 kanzure you insert the reagents at the start of the reaction, the polymerase is not a permanent component of the machine.
19:20 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2013-12-10#414094 <<
19:20 a111 Logged on 2013-12-10 01:49 asciilifeform: if i ever strike lucky, i'll write 'fairycad.' create magical gadgets, just need pixie dust fabricator.
19:20 kanzure "normally the left derives semantic authority from threats of mob violence/witch hunts; what does mircea_popescu have?"
19:21 mircea_popescu apodictics!
19:23 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703884 << tsk. too uphill huh ?
19:23 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 20:30 asciilifeform: kanzure: objective was to economically make (by the kg) a (modified) butyrylcholinesterase
19:23 mircea_popescu you can get bacteria to do anything you want them to ; provided you want them to do something they were going to do already. gotta be a metabolic leftover.
19:23 kanzure no i just fed it to my bioreactor person to see what he would design for me. butyrylcholinesterase proposal will be forthcoming.
19:23 phf ah makes sense, for some reason i thought 3d printers went in the direction of spiroligomers, but hackerspace for which i was mocked is running a CRISPR project in their fridge so this is consistent
19:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: they also 'unlearn' as quickly as 'learned', the extra crud. it dun help'em survive in the welfarestat^H^H^H^H^Hculturevat . so they ditch it
19:24 mircea_popescu exactly.
19:24 asciilifeform was major problem for the biowar folx
19:24 asciilifeform ( virulence vanishes )
19:24 mircea_popescu there's no great advantage for "a flying stegosaurus with poisonous spines on every bone!!" sorta videogame items.
19:25 mircea_popescu poison is expensive as all shit.
19:25 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> it's in the last link, re teh HeLa. << For further reading ask Hussein Bahamas about the trechery of Big Headed Yakub.
19:25 mircea_popescu (speaking of which... if what you want is in the vein of yl-cholinesterase, maybe try engineering spiders ?
19:25 asciilifeform kanzure: reactor was pointedly not the problem. the trait simply wouldn't stick.
19:25 asciilifeform and nobody found out specifically why.
19:26 mircea_popescu or rather : specifically how.
19:26 kanzure http://gizmodo.com/why-bringing-back-a-wooly-mammoth-is-no-longer-science-1797099747
19:26 mircea_popescu the why is above.
19:26 kanzure "".. isn’t the only one working to clone a mammoth. There’s also Hwang Woo-suk’s Korean dog-cloning lab, Soaam Technologies [....] He was the one who claimed to clone human cells, but it turns out he had been forcing his students to donate their eggs, and secondly that his clone cells are fraudulent, so he’s trying to resurrect his reputation by being the first to clone ...
19:26 kanzure ...a mammoth.""
19:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the competition used goats. afaik eventually went broke, 0 result.
19:26 * asciilifeform misread as 'scam technologies'
19:27 mircea_popescu asciilifeform im strictly going by the above "woman will do anything you wanrt provided it is what she ewas goping to do anyway". afaik, spiders do actually make variants of it.
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19:27 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it also had to be a (mostly)human BchE. because injectable.
19:27 mircea_popescu oh.
19:27 kanzure please clarify why apodicticity is not philosophical wankery
19:27 mircea_popescu that old nonsense chemwar thing.
19:27 asciilifeform otherwise we'dve simply put mongeese through blender.
19:27 asciilifeform (waring co. makes appropriate-size blender.)
19:28 mircea_popescu kanzure calling something "philosophicval wankery" is a political act, no different from saying niggers dun belong in civilised society.
19:28 kanzure is "trying to figure out whether mircea_popescu is just babbling on a blog" also a "political act"?
19:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: funnily enough, BchE is ~the~ preantidote. inject couplea grams, and walk right through vx.
19:28 asciilifeform problem is, only known source -- human blood
19:28 asciilifeform by the tonne.
19:28 asciilifeform for 1 dose.
19:29 asciilifeform (well not quite tonne, iirc 100 litres or so per )
19:29 kanzure if this knowledge only enables you to feel alright about whatever cause passes your fancy for the moment then i would argue you're engaging in a lot of effort for a rather trivial outcome.
19:29 mircea_popescu kanzure the trying to figure it out, no. the expecting i'll justify myself, yes.
19:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform funny how that goes.
19:30 kanzure that's sort of rude isn't it. wouldn't it be less total noise to just answer instead of either one of us wasting our time?
19:31 mircea_popescu also funny, if not funnier : apparently nature very much favours the republican outlook. "divide teh people into two groups. blender one for the choline, vx the other."
19:31 * asciilifeform still doesn't quite grasp what the q was, that kanzure wants answerd
19:31 kanzure i don't really care if it's "justified" by you, i care about correctly understanding
19:31 mircea_popescu kanzure what'd i answer ?
19:32 kanzure you were arguing to me that directed effort is irrelevant (or something) so i'm trying to ascertain what your proposed alternative is
19:32 mircea_popescu i was not arguing at you. we were examining your model together, and it came out unconvincing, and then we were left trying to make something of the pieces.
19:32 asciilifeform kanzure: the alternative is amply illustrated in the logs : effort of actual people, without any trace of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-07#1640325
19:32 a111 Logged on 2017-04-07 20:17 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-07#1639964 << one of the (~the~ ?) advantage of tmsr work for intelligent folk is that there isn't a braindamaged/choiceless manager in the loop going "i know it's stupid but it must be done".
19:33 mircea_popescu you're more than welcome to go again, but you'll need a decent definition of effort and some sort of proof it's directable.
19:34 mircea_popescu anyway, in practical terms i am politically powerful because i've successfully protected a bunch of smart people from idiocy for years, and they have the (pewrhaps unwarranted) expectation this may continue.
19:35 kanzure you mean by (perhaps correctly) criticising everything right?
19:35 mircea_popescu because the political power is a super-2 exponential on smarts, whereas cost is a logarithmic on stupidity, it's very easy to be powerful hanging out with smart people. almost as easy as it is to go bankrupt hanging out with many people.
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19:35 mircea_popescu kanzure the "by" part is rather open-ended.
19:35 kanzure well fine.
19:35 mircea_popescu there's some work in the log re creating mechanical-mp, but mostly at the lulz stage.
19:36 kanzure i am trying to ascertain what you exercise power for
19:36 kanzure or if you don't.
19:37 kanzure other than blogging :-)
19:37 mircea_popescu what for.
19:38 kanzure it's just how i work, i internalize things
19:38 mircea_popescu power is a misnomer in any case ; it's arche as in greek not power as in latin.
19:38 mircea_popescu and the bad notation makes you go into walls, as per "since it's power it must have goal"
19:38 kanzure i'd settle for "observed tendencies or use of power that would probably fail without such power"
19:39 mircea_popescu aite.
19:39 kanzure you could safely argue it would look like a plot of the sha256 function against a graph, but i would also be surprised to hear that
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19:39 mircea_popescu funny you should mention that, there's also a discussion re rng and power in teh logs.
19:40 mircea_popescu meanwhile at the power driving happy club, http://68.media.tumblr.com/a533597cc4b5c9a0d8378a536f495797/tumblr_ntbr97L7LW1tr6tzco1_400.gif
19:41 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686026 << see also thread
19:41 a111 Logged on 2017-07-18 18:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform understand this bit of GT : the knowledge of all the things you don't know thereby constructs a sybil of you.
19:41 asciilifeform re 'if you're modellable, you are a mechanical part, not a power'
19:42 asciilifeform one of the aspects, imho, of serious power, is that it does not present itself in the form of an 'exam' that examgrinder derps can 'study' for an' finesse.
19:42 asciilifeform it's zeta, comes and impales your entire fucking village to make the point that NO, you can't model it.
19:42 mircea_popescu confucius disagrees!
19:43 asciilifeform the inventor of the original usg - yes - quite disagreed.
19:43 mircea_popescu hehe
19:45 kanzure alright so the argument is that to whatever extent there's a modellable aspect, that's a failure mode and not necessarily a preference
19:45 asciilifeform kanzure: kindergarten gametheory
19:45 mircea_popescu actually part of republican doctrine, there's no standard policies in all sorts of shocking places.
19:46 mircea_popescu like you know, what ratings mean for one.
19:48 kanzure so just hoard a bunch of power and don't provide much signal regarding its application or likely application. is this some sort of gmaxwell-level fear of "unintentionally causing others to agree with you, by unethically signaling to them an idea that they shouldn't have had in the first place" bullshit?
19:48 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703892 < http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-09#1695593
19:48 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 20:32 kanzure: jihan has been quite friendly so far
19:48 a111 Logged on 2017-08-09 00:40 asciilifeform: No one else did. Not theymos, not knighmb, not pirate, not silbert, not Jihan Wu. Not satoshi or asciilifeform.
19:48 mircea_popescu ha-HA!
19:48 mircea_popescu kanzure i lean on people all the damned time, what are you talking about.
19:48 kanzure i wouldn't know
19:49 mircea_popescu you're even voiced atm because i did lol.
19:49 kanzure http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/futurism/Who%20steers%20who%20steers%3f%20A%20note%20on%20identifying%20vulnerable%20moral%20propensities.pdf
19:49 mircea_popescu o god with the %20s
19:50 kanzure i have the best filenames
19:50 mircea_popescu anyway, i don't read pdfs, so put it in a pastebin ?
19:51 kanzure https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Who-Steers-Who-Steers-a-Note-on-Identifying-Vulner-Kaas-Rayhawk/3ac398a295bd468d936bc50092142e3cb2f60a71
19:52 kanzure bad abstract parse there. it ends half-way through.
19:53 mircea_popescu lessee
19:54 mircea_popescu lol "while this risk can not be avoided entirely... here's how im not giving up".
19:54 mircea_popescu sane person would have stopped there. "this risk can not be avoided ; abandon du travail"
19:56 deedbot http://www.contravex.com/2017/08/28/bob-lutz-on-why-ford-ousted-mark-fields-adnotated/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Bob Lutz on Why Ford Ousted Mark Fields, adnotated.
19:58 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703932 << ftr you realize out-and-out myostatin inhibition would result in a bad case of blindness if you're lucky. you might grow fucking horns.
19:58 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 20:43 asciilifeform: kanzure: mike w promised myostatin inhibitor to me in 2007 !!1111 where is it ?!
19:58 mircea_popescu soft, squishy, horns nevertheless.
19:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: d00d had some quite musculatured, and not otherwise mutilated ( as far as anybody could tell ) rat
19:59 asciilifeform but point being, never came remotely close to useful item in man.
19:59 mircea_popescu yeah, and if they grow enough they'll push your eyes ouyt.
20:00 asciilifeform either that, or 9,999 possible other 'i put an f1 engine in my trabant' failure modes.
20:01 mircea_popescu anyway. in my admittedly pedestrian clinical experience, it was NEVER the myokines that limit muscle mass. it's always kidney clearance, lung efficiency and liver capacity for glycogenesis in this order.
20:01 asciilifeform kanzure: re your link, do you know what gosplan was ?
20:01 mircea_popescu ie, when people who are out of shape get the fuck back in shape, it is THESE ORGANS that expand first, and most.
20:01 mircea_popescu which is why the fuck "exercise is healthy" in the first place.
20:02 asciilifeform '... we engage in a project to "drive while we drive": to strategically influence the main factors that will strategically influence the future.'
20:02 asciilifeform how can you read this without barfing, kanzure ?
20:03 mircea_popescu practice.
20:03 asciilifeform at least sov gosplan never rose to the megalomania of 'plan future of all man'
20:03 asciilifeform ( not, at any rate, explicitly )
20:03 mircea_popescu hehehe i was about to say.
20:03 mircea_popescu there was a lot of the nonsense floating about, esp cca 1940s and 50s. back when they belieft.
20:04 asciilifeform nothing, afaik, quite like this.
20:04 mircea_popescu this is always an unfair comparison for the esltards, because all other languages being spoken by man over time have built in ridiculous protectors.
20:04 mircea_popescu english is a doggerel, has nothing in it.
20:04 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: where was the 'game plan' thread
20:04 asciilifeform oh hah mircea_popescu linked it few min ago
20:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform amusingly, linked in my last. talk about premonitory.
20:05 asciilifeform indeed
20:05 asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2014/agency-and-other-notes/ ftr.
20:06 asciilifeform 'Mouthbreathers living in squalor all over the US are mentally preparing to solve the 3rd world's famine problems. Just in case. You never know when you suddenly become powerful. Fucking Cinderella syndrome, an entire generation of sleeping beauties.'
20:07 mircea_popescu heh.
20:07 mircea_popescu but isn't that what technologee is all about!!!
20:08 asciilifeform the interesting bit is that it wasn't, appears, the generation that played civ, that grew into these
20:08 asciilifeform but the next, that didn't
20:10 * asciilifeform has theory, that one of the fundamental and incurable psychodysfunctions of the ameritard is the picture, formed in childhood, of 'world of plenty', 'infinite resources', 'as soon said as done', 'just needs to be managed and komyoonitiorganized' etc
20:10 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1704153 << i can certify i've not used language in trhis manner sicne about 5th grade.
20:10 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 21:39 kanzure: "and as such they're not only infinite and uncountable, but even undefined" but isn't this what calibration is for. you communicate with people because you are trying to callibrate collective goal behavior shit.
20:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform always how this happens. it wasn't the generatio nthat slept in cow dung under the biting western wind that thought cowboy is tough guy
20:11 mircea_popescu but the next one.
20:11 mircea_popescu nobody thought himself a hero for being at verdun. more like an idiot, really.
20:11 asciilifeform to the wind generation, cowboy is normal d00d
20:11 asciilifeform doing normal things
20:11 mircea_popescu well... normal poor dood.
20:11 asciilifeform aha
20:12 mircea_popescu doing what can be done.
20:13 mircea_popescu anyway, amusingly enough that exact outlook, 'world of plenty', 'infinite resources', 'as soon said as done', 'just needs to be managed and komyoonitiorganized' resulted in the panic of 1837.
20:13 mircea_popescu i talked of it a little somewhere, it's very amusingly similar
20:13 mircea_popescu (the systemic shock then was the europeans, not the chinese, taking their gold back home. the us survived that one.)
20:14 asciilifeform 'we'll feed everybody by printing 10bil foodvouchers' is an eternal plague
20:14 asciilifeform the borderline-retarded buy it because retarded; the cynical grifters buy it because 'i'll be first to the trough'
20:14 mircea_popescu at the risk of splitting hairs, that's possibly a different strand of the same coli.
20:15 kanzure 10 billion food vouchers can be printed if you would like to shut them up the hilarious way
20:15 kanzure they could even eat the vouchers if you'd like
20:15 mircea_popescu lol. finally, 3d printing on biological material that matters! USE EXPANDED RICE!
20:15 kanzure oh print the voucher on the rice? i've been doing it wrong i guess.
20:16 asciilifeform the 'we can create 10bil plates of shitburger to go with the vouchers if only we KomyoonityOrganizeStoneSoup correctly' is simply slightly moar elaborate version of same.
20:16 mircea_popescu asciilifeform arguably the "world of plenty" "boundless bounty of this is our land" is one kind of nativist ; whereas assignats more of a frenchypoof thing.
20:16 mircea_popescu kanzure yes, the chinese fortune cookie see ? include the blessing with the meal. "by order of our most supreme government, you are obligated and alloweds to eat this"
20:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what's the operative diff ? -- other than where one places the 'world of plenty' hallucination in the present, and other -- in future..?
20:17 mircea_popescu asciilifeform now ask me what is the diff between polar and cartesian coord systems.
20:17 mircea_popescu there's a difference.
20:18 * asciilifeform brb, meat
20:18 * mircea_popescu can't help but visualize endless expanded rice cakes, painted with the required assignats drawings. sort of like e-stamps, only edible.
20:18 mircea_popescu fucking fabulous idea. make the ink HFCS caramel too.
20:19 mircea_popescu http://i.huffpost.com/gen/3932032/thumbs/o-RICE-CAKE-570.jpg << item's as close to paper as it gets. stores forever...
20:19 mircea_popescu nice and filling...
20:21 mircea_popescu kanzure 188 wpm sorta top speed ? that's pretty impressive.
20:21 kanzure it's a completely useless skill
20:22 kanzure i'm able to keep up with core developers as they babble on about stuff, though https://bitcoincore.org/logs/2016-05-zurich-meeting-notes.html
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20:22 mircea_popescu not completely useless, i don't think.
20:22 kanzure http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/2016-july-bitcoin-developers-miners-meeting/cali2016/
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20:22 mircea_popescu o hey, check that out, logs.
20:22 kanzure (these are real-time transcripts. nobody has time to go back and type. i just do it in real-time.)
20:22 mircea_popescu see ? useful enough.
20:23 mircea_popescu so what do you do for a living anyway ?
20:23 kanzure https://ledgerx.com/introducing-ledgerx/
20:23 mircea_popescu ah that's why he blacklisted you
20:24 kanzure i am honored. (who?)
20:24 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-27#898659 << raised what, 3years ago ?
20:24 a111 Logged on 2014-10-27 21:05 los_pantalones: mircea_popescu i can't believe how much $ the ledgerX guys raised
20:24 mircea_popescu kanzure asciilifeform
20:25 kanzure that was one month after i was onboarded
20:25 kanzure so yeah they did not have diligence until i showed up
20:25 mircea_popescu so which of https://ledgerx.com/management-team/ is you then ?
20:26 kanzure i never asked to be listed there
20:26 kanzure oh yeah, i'm not. ok.
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20:30 mircea_popescu wait, you are telling me you are working at company x BECAUSE you work there, not so that you're on the //heres-some%20stock-photos-stolen-from-internets.htmk page ?!
20:31 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1704181 << i'm not much of an engineer ; i don't even own any ikea desk converted into an open thermo-thingee.
20:31 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 22:14 kanzure: well originally my purpose (that's right i said it) of bringing this up with mircea_popescu was to query his preferences regarding thermonuclear war err i mean eugenics err i mean direct participation in technology development for genome engineering projects
20:34 mircea_popescu seems i'd be uniquely unqualified for teh job.
20:36 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1704183 << they are. resource allocation, including man hours, is not open to all comers ; it is not even open to "community" anything.
20:36 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 22:15 kanzure: if things are so willy wonka in here that one cannot apply effort to directed intentional behavior then i'm not really sure how to communicate
20:37 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1704192 << logically, shouldn't it terminate itself for that reason ?
20:37 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 22:21 trinque: yudsy's basillisk does not flow back through time in-order-to bring about itself.
20:37 mircea_popescu maybe that's why alf's ecoli were so uncooperative. basiliskation.
20:40 kanzure so far the only form of 'resource allocation' that i can peg you down for is re: something something 'protection of friendlines from idiocy'
20:40 kanzure *friendlies
20:41 kanzure and 'attention' maybe.
20:47 mircea_popescu i thought you read the logs.
20:48 mircea_popescu the republic fabricates its own hardware, building towards a complete stack. not to mention its own software, idem.
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20:48 mircea_popescu it's a state, like any other. well, better than most, at least in tech terms.
20:49 kanzure i was not aware of this.
20:50 mircea_popescu ever heard of eg phuctor ?
20:52 kanzure no
20:52 mircea_popescu aite, so it's this item that factors privkeys. has the whole db of pgp and ssh keys.
20:53 mircea_popescu you can teach yourself lisp by talking to candi_lustt
20:53 mircea_popescu there's all sorta things.
20:54 mod6 evenin'
20:54 mircea_popescu hola
20:55 * mod6 reads scrollback
20:56 mircea_popescu kanzure ftr, does your pdfparanoia thing also wipe the yellow printer dots ?
21:02 kanzure no just the ip address stuff
21:02 kanzure i do not have a sample of yellow printer dots in academic papers to work from. if you have a sample, i'll be happy to debug that.
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21:02 mircea_popescu why not ? woulda saved that chicks bacon, what was her name.
21:02 kanzure alexandra
21:02 kanzure so it turns out, i was the reason why she got doxxed
21:02 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo do we have the famous pdf unicorn-coconut or whatever took to the inept competition instead of bringing to qntra, resulting in a jail term for her ?
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21:03 kanzure i met her in 2010 at a harvard transhumanism conference. i recognized her profile pic (rotated) on a scihub site.
21:03 mircea_popescu heh.
21:03 kanzure and i said so on irc in 2013. and i think i doxxed her and now i kind of feel bad about that.
21:03 mircea_popescu kanzure are you capable of standing up a bot which takes a link to a pdf and responds with a http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/hello/?raw=true link containing the contents ?
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21:04 kanzure https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot
21:04 kanzure ( http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/ )
21:05 mircea_popescu not exactly what i want. it should work with arbitrary user provided links ; and it should specifically spit out the format required.
21:06 mircea_popescu (most of the heavy lifting consists of OCR, mind you. that's the core of the job.)
21:06 kanzure you'll have to find someone else to do as much
21:06 mircea_popescu aite.
21:08 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-29#1704526 << colour laser is fiddybux at junk store
21:08 a111 Logged on 2017-08-29 01:02 kanzure: i do not have a sample of yellow printer dots in academic papers to work from. if you have a sample, i'll be happy to debug that.
21:08 asciilifeform ( the dot pattern was reversed long ago, however , is public )
21:08 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i see the merit in using the actual item though.
21:08 asciilifeform which item ?
21:09 asciilifeform colour laser ? everybody who bought a FG, has a thick wad of yellowdotted printout
21:09 kanzure pdfparanoia strips the "YOUR IP ADDRESS IS 127.0.0.1" from the margins of pdfs.
21:09 mircea_popescu nah wtf was her name
21:09 asciilifeform ( i print'em on old clunker that definitely has them dotz )
21:09 kanzure alexandra elbakyan
21:09 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: realitywinner?
21:10 mircea_popescu yes! ty!
21:10 mircea_popescu dumbass usg naming styles.
21:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: chix renamed itself
21:10 asciilifeform supposedly.
21:10 mircea_popescu kanzure different chick. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-06#1666586
21:10 a111 Logged on 2017-06-06 18:15 BingoBoingo: So the politics of "Reality Winner" is a bottomless lulz spiral.
21:11 mircea_popescu asciilifeform what diff does that make. still the same dumbass FLUXBABBIT!!!11 nonsense
21:12 asciilifeform it does read quite like an nsalogical compartmentname, dunnit. REALITYWINNER.
21:12 mircea_popescu yup
21:12 asciilifeform ( somewhere, in another castle, there languishes a DREAMLOSER )
21:13 mircea_popescu yeah, totally another castle.
21:13 asciilifeform kanzure: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-29#1704513 >> see also http://nosuchlabs.com/hardware.html
21:13 a111 Logged on 2017-08-29 00:48 mircea_popescu: the republic fabricates its own hardware, building towards a complete stack. not to mention its own software, idem.
21:15 kanzure is this yours. it says mpex.
21:16 asciilifeform kanzure: mpex is mircea_popescu's emporium.
21:16 asciilifeform i expected you knew this.
21:16 kanzure nope
21:16 asciilifeform srsly?! must be 1st d00d ever to walk in, who did not.
21:16 mircea_popescu refreshing, at that.
21:17 asciilifeform pretty sure this is a historic first.
21:17 mircea_popescu what else did you miss, lessee, the 1k btc berkshire bet ?
21:17 kanzure huh?
21:17 asciilifeform probably also missed the phuctoring
21:18 kanzure i am really, really illiterate. i live in a different world.
21:18 mircea_popescu the lulzarmageddon on something awful, "oh bitcoin is useless" "really ? here's a dork shoving crayons in his ass for bitcoin" "OMFG porn and winning unpopular arguments are now bannable offenses on something awful" ?
21:18 asciilifeform and the demolition of ethertardium
21:18 mircea_popescu there's really a lot.
21:18 mircea_popescu no there was no proof re that.
21:20 asciilifeform probably never yet seen trb, either...
21:20 asciilifeform or v. or ffa. and what elses.
21:20 mircea_popescu possibly isn't aware how gavin lost a head also...
21:20 mircea_popescu aaanyway. ima bbl.
21:22 asciilifeform kanzure: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/phuctored << 1697 and counting rsa keys publicly raped.
21:23 asciilifeform kanzure: as for why you won't read about it in the lugenpress, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-20#1687903 << n00b review
21:23 a111 Logged on 2017-07-20 23:21 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: review, http://trilema.com/2015/full-disclosure-4096-rsa-key-in-the-strongset-factored , http://trilema.com/2015/more-factored-rsa-keys-and-assorted-other-considerations , http://trilema.com/2016/psa-hanno-bock-still-a-deceitful-shitbag
21:25 * asciilifeform bbl, meat
~ 21 minutes ~
21:47 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E0A97C08E2DA96685C3A9BB822E1D127FED0E923BB60549AA1628FB49EAA3688 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1554...7607 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '58.10.212.17 (ssh-rsa key from 58.10.212.17 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (cm-58-10-212-17.revip7.asianet.co.th. TH 74)
21:47 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E0A97C08E2DA96685C3A9BB822E1D127FED0E923BB60549AA1628FB49EAA3688 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1481...2719 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '58.10.212.17 (ssh-rsa key from 58.10.212.17 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (cm-58-10-212-17.revip7.asianet.co.th. TH 74)
~ 36 minutes ~
22:23 asciilifeform !~later tell kanzure http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-29#1704482 << realize, NOT ONE of these imbeciles, nor the idiocies they uttered, has a single thing to do with ACTUAL bitcoin. not the 'core dev' nsa tools, not the dan boneh ( http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/2016-july-bitcoin-developers-miners-meeting/dan-boneh ) nsa stooge; not the chinese derps.
22:23 a111 Logged on 2017-08-29 00:22 kanzure: i'm able to keep up with core developers as they babble on about stuff, though https://bitcoincore.org/logs/2016-05-zurich-meeting-notes.html
22:23 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
22:24 asciilifeform !~later tell kanzure elementary likbez : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-17#1685595
22:24 a111 Logged on 2017-07-17 21:24 mircea_popescu: let's approach the easier end of this. the necessary precondition for any fork succieeding on the bitcoin network was set forth last year : http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/
22:24 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
22:26 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-29#1704484 << another astonishing horror show. recommended to all dedicated entomologists.
22:26 a111 Logged on 2017-08-29 00:22 kanzure: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/2016-july-bitcoin-developers-miners-meeting/cali2016/
22:26 * asciilifeform read both links, 'holy mother of fuck, these people think... all of this matters'
22:31 asciilifeform massive, mind-boggling pile of 'roundtables', 'consensuses', 'preps for hardfork', 'plans for future of bitcoin'
22:32 asciilifeform 'I think we are interested in any and all opportunities to collaborate. We will try to setup a commercial circle. We hope that the Core developers will join. In the afternoon, we can come back after we visit Stanford. We have an hour gap and we can come back here. I have reserved the conference room for the whole day. We can still come back here. Googleplex is not very far from here. It takes 30min to get there or less. We can still
22:32 asciilifeform come back.'
22:34 asciilifeform 'Over the last few days, some Bitcoin developers and miners got together for a social gathering to improve communication, friendship, and to do some California sightseeing. We talked about where bitcoin is and where bitcoin is going. We learned a lot from each other. We also visited Stanford to attend a cryptography talk to learn more about potential improvements for Bitcoin, as well as the Google campus to give a presentation and ta
22:34 asciilifeform lk about Bitcoin. We had many informal discussions amongst ourselves about topics such as mining decentralization, evolution of the Bitcoin protocol, safety improvements and progress for both soft- and hard-forks...' didjaknow!!
22:34 asciilifeform 'safety improvements' didjaknow !
22:34 kanzure ya the miners were trying to propose a centralized organization.
22:35 asciilifeform y'mean legitimize the existing central cartel.
22:35 kanzure no i mean coercing me into saying things that i don't believe
22:37 asciilifeform kanzure: what, specifically ? ( and... why ? )
22:37 kanzure you're asking me why miners would want a central organization to control bitcoin....?
22:37 asciilifeform mno
22:38 asciilifeform what they 'coercing me into saying things that i don't believe' and why.
22:38 kanzure e.g. vouch for various hard-forks
22:39 mircea_popescu pretty lulzy.
22:40 mircea_popescu asciilifeform remember the days when "teh cartel didn't exist" ?
22:40 mircea_popescu "'I think his followers actually kind of excommunicated him after he lost their bitcoins." as opposed to "he actually blew up the early feelers of teh cartel a year ago, we're STILL butthurt about it".
22:41 kanzure block content is actually not sufficient. even if you include a nonce (like a private key) plus the previous block content, you don't actually get what you need there in the sha3 proposal.
22:42 kanzure one way i was thinking was something like, move the transaction merkle root out of the blockheader, eliminate the block header, full transaction list must be transmitted in order to verify PoW. unfortunately gmaxwell broke this in 3 seconds (because midstate).
22:55 asciilifeform kanzure: keccak dun have midstates.
22:56 kanzure uh
22:56 asciilifeform at any rate, kanzure , the latest word on subj was http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-01#1620661 thread.
22:56 a111 Logged on 2017-03-01 19:32 asciilifeform: ooook try this on for size : suppose fixed-width TX (as discussed earlier.) T(N) is the Nth tx, T(0) is the first tx in genesis block, etc. Tmax is the last tx in the currentheightblock.
22:57 kanzure can you riterate the value of proving they have a copy of the blockchain. what you really need is a proof that everyone else has a copy of the blockchain (e.g. all utxo owners sign the damn content).
22:57 asciilifeform i must invoke babbage here,
22:58 asciilifeform 'i cannot rightfully apprehend the confusion of ideas that could lead to such a question'
22:58 kanzure so, miners having a copy of an invalid blockchain is sort of irrelevant
22:58 asciilifeform mno, it ain't.
22:58 kanzure they can have many invalid things, as long as they choose to broadcast the valid thing
22:59 asciilifeform 'can't use bitcoin PERIOD' unless you have a proper, honest motherfucking node, with ALL the blocks' is the Right Thing.
↖
22:59 asciilifeform no 'prunings', no 'simplified' nonsense.
22:59 asciilifeform no 'i can't believe it's not fullblockchain' idiocy.
22:59 kanzure so, i had a proposal a while back where i pushed that question to the edges instead of to the miners; e.g. a bitcoin address scheme where it requires interactive querying to determine whether the recipient is actually running a node (because why would you send coins to a monkey that isn't running the bitcoin protocol).
23:00 asciilifeform full. history. of. the. world. -- or you can't play.
23:00 asciilifeform kanzure: if it's cheaply outsourceable, it proves shit.
23:01 kanzure well, i agree, however you can include a private key in the scheme, and if the user is outsourcing their private key they are dumb anyway
23:01 asciilifeform waiwat
23:01 asciilifeform private key?!
23:01 kanzure yea you can prove that they are hashing a value of blocchain content (or doing rule validation) with the presence of a secret nonce, etc.
23:02 asciilifeform known to whom ?
23:02 asciilifeform flesh this out
23:02 kanzure i think the most mature construction was one that was solely about utxo set and/or blockchain content, not rule validation (besides: they could be running a fake client that solely does these rule validation protocols or whatever, and then they don't actually run a node in the end)
23:03 asciilifeform 'utxo set' is of the heathens.
23:04 mircea_popescu kanzure you can't put that sort of burden on key generation. he has a point with the babbage quote, you're trying to put contraryt things in the same box.
23:05 asciilifeform ('utxo set' is a broken concept, thoroughly and to the bone : it implies that it is somehow acceptable to forget the history of all coin, i.e. the thing that proves that EVERY bitcent actually came from blockrewards as-specified, and not from magicking into existence a la fiatola )
23:05 asciilifeform !#s pruning
23:05 a111 66 results for "pruning", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=pruning
23:05 asciilifeform ^ see also
23:05 asciilifeform NOTHING is 'prunable' in bitcoin.
23:05 asciilifeform or ever will be.
23:06 asciilifeform if you 'pruned', you ain't running bitcoin.
23:06 asciilifeform yer running bernankecoin.
23:06 mircea_popescu asciilifeform something like pubkey = hash(hash(privkey+proofstring) . privkey). you publish the pubkey AND the hash(privkey+proofstring) component. then when spending they check that indeed the proofstring component was correct.
23:06 mircea_popescu this is rank nonsense, for the record.
23:06 asciilifeform (today, or 100yrs from now, when blockchain is petabyte. NO reprieve.)
23:07 mircea_popescu even without going into any discussion re what is a "proper" proofstring.
23:07 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: we had this thread. if 'pruning' is a thing -- monetary mass is no longer demonstrably capped.
23:07 mircea_popescu we're discussing different things.
23:07 asciilifeform nobody's ever conceived of a finesse around this, and i don't expect that anyone will.
23:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: which different thing
23:08 asciilifeform aah
23:08 mircea_popescu you are discussing the composition of said proofstring ; i was giving the ur-example of what he's talking about, "make USERS prove they have the blockchain, not miners".
23:09 asciilifeform ftr i dun see why not to make users also demonstrate possession of actual blockchain.
23:09 asciilifeform ( yer sig gets hashed and you get to luby in 3 tx from history... )
23:09 mircea_popescu for one thing because i want to be able to spend by hand.
23:10 mircea_popescu and in other lulz, * Topic for ##hplusroadmap is: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by lobsters everywhere, banned by the Federal Death Administration (5 times)
↖
23:10 asciilifeform how, with telegraph key?!
23:10 asciilifeform tididididahdahdah...
23:11 mircea_popescu user pays for tx via fee. that's 100% all he has to do. if he should pay more, let the fee be more. there's not going to be any tack-ons in kind, it's a monetary system not fucking 1800s serfdom.
23:11 asciilifeform somebody without a node is not a user, but a barnacle.
23:11 mircea_popescu the problem is not one of proof, here, and it is imperial nonsensemachine to misrepresent it in terms of proof.
23:11 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: funnily enough, BchE is ~the~ preantidote. inject couplea grams, and walk right through vx. << AHA, an innovation to revolutionize pest control!
23:11 mircea_popescu the problem is that the money users pay is pocketed by the miners for mining ; whereas it should be pocketed by miners + nodes for mining + noding.
23:12 mircea_popescu as oft discussed, the current system excists as does because satoshi was a lazy thinker.
23:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform someone with privkeys is someone.
23:12 mircea_popescu it is at his pleasure that nodes and miners labour.
23:14 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-25#1618589 << canonical, iirc, thread.
23:14 a111 Logged on 2017-02-25 23:22 mircea_popescu: basically nodes are the digital equivalent of women : men fuck them so the state can have babies. hurr durr, pill plox.
23:14 mircea_popescu kanzure is http://gnusha.org/logs supposed to not load ?
23:15 kanzure your interweb is broken
23:15 asciilifeform loads here
23:16 mircea_popescu o look at that, 3.5k long file.
23:16 mircea_popescu who designs these things.
23:16 asciilifeform e.g. http://gnusha.org/logs/2017-08-28.log
23:16 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the root is just shockingly lengthy.
23:17 asciilifeform '15:49 < jrayhawk> i feel like popescu is what happens when you confuse postmodernism with intellectualism and then read too much alt-right literature'
23:18 asciilifeform lul
23:18 mircea_popescu o.O
23:18 asciilifeform turns out goats really do think 'hey, it moves, has legs, IS ANOTHER GOAT'
23:18 mircea_popescu wtf is alt-right literature for my curiosity ? not ann raynd and such i hope ?
23:18 asciilifeform reddit?
23:18 mircea_popescu oh that's literature now ? god help us.
23:18 mircea_popescu asciilifeform did you run a grep on the site over my name or what
23:18 asciilifeform nope
23:19 asciilifeform just snarfed lastlog
23:19 asciilifeform was fulla pastes
23:19 mircea_popescu ah
23:19 asciilifeform kanzure: if it weren't clear, 'nuke with materials of electronics' means '0 fissiles'
23:20 asciilifeform as in, 0 grams of anything you can't sit down and order right now for with 0 questions asked.
23:21 BingoBoingo <kanzure> alright so the argument is that to whatever extent there's a modellable aspect, that's a failure mode and not necessarily a preference << Consider http://trilema.com/2011/arta-pedepsirii/
23:21 * asciilifeform is astonished at the elaborate dance of 'we dun get it' in $linked
23:21 mircea_popescu hey, for every single articulation there's multiple positions, and the shit we dabble in is many articulations long. combinatorial explody.
23:22 mircea_popescu so basically, this is a sort of republic-like, some people got together trying to do [what their idea of] good is. not nearly as dead as cat-v.org thing for instance.
23:22 asciilifeform '16:38 < jrayhawk> he needs verifiable/falsifiable examples, but i think i have already stopped caring' << winner
23:22 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: d00d had some quite musculatured, and not otherwise mutilated ( as far as anybody could tell ) rat << And time + selective breeding some well built bulls in Belgium
23:23 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: so far in my reading all i see is http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-16#1699409 .
23:23 a111 Logged on 2017-08-16 20:26 asciilifeform: 'whaddayamean you won't eat from the trough' 'not a swine? everybody's a swine, and you're an elitist swine' etc
23:24 mircea_popescu eh. think of it this way, if people didn't have barriers at all they'd be goo.
23:24 mircea_popescu not even gray. pink goo.
23:25 asciilifeform they spread leg^H^H^Hmembrane for thiel/yudkowsky/etc al on command tho
23:25 asciilifeform such barrier.
23:25 mircea_popescu every membrane will have a pore. it's only natural. dja know the joke with the horny bear ?
23:25 asciilifeform 18:39 < fenn> it doesn’t pass the self check and was probably broken while uploaded.
23:25 asciilifeform 18:39 < fenn> therefore probably nothing really happened."
23:25 asciilifeform didjaknow, mircea_popescu !
23:25 asciilifeform ( re phuctor, apparently )
23:25 mircea_popescu hm ?
23:26 kanzure if operatig the yudkowsy parody twitter account for five years is insufficient to convince you that i absolutely hate the person, then what would?
↖
23:26 asciilifeform 18:40 < yashgaroth> ah, that's a lot of people to dedicate to a dumb idea << usg.dtra, unclass. to the tune of couplea decamil.
23:26 asciilifeform public record.
23:26 mircea_popescu kanzure conviction is a rare material ; take it easy.
23:27 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the problem with the current crop of kids is that they're so used to have OTHERS pick their reading materials for them.
23:28 mircea_popescu be it in school, on reddit, whatever. as a result, have deeply nfi about relatively fundamental, basic stuff, and WAY too much familiarity with relatively irrelevant fringe extensions of minor alt-theories in obscure fields.
↖ ↖
23:28 asciilifeform 18:29 < kanzure> yeah i don't know anymore
23:28 asciilifeform 18:29 < kanzure> buncha noise
23:28 asciilifeform why did we voice d00d again..?
23:29 kanzure hash functions are supposed to look like noise you dolt
23:29 asciilifeform 17:17 < kanzure> could the atmosphere be flooded with gas + nutrients sufficient to feed a person if lungs weren't awful
23:29 mircea_popescu ie, "why do you know so much about string theory ?" "because im on this biker forum and this guy steve keeps posting articles about it" "yes but... it's neither that important nor interesting" "i dunno"
23:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform cuz we're patient and tolerant and i have a houseful of teenagers, mr grouch.
23:29 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo do we have the famous pdf unicorn-coconut or whatever took to the inept competition instead of bringing to qntra, resulting in a jail term for her ? << http://qntra.net/2017/06/reality-winner-arrested-for-leaking-to-omidyar-and-greenwalds-fake-qntra/
23:30 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo aha! it's like mp-berylium that thing, totally reflects my memory rays.
23:30 kanzure claiming that it's not supposed to look like noise (explicitly after saying that was your goal) is just insane
23:30 asciilifeform waiwat..?
23:31 kanzure well you didn't say it; but let's stick to the deriving-from-authority concept eh?
23:31 mircea_popescu kanzure fluid respiration does happen, and has happened since the 70s. it's not even that costly, biologically. lung NUTRITION however is impossibru.
23:31 mircea_popescu hydration is prolly going to emphysema-kill you in weeks at the most. sorta in-between
23:32 kanzure yeah i don't think existing lungs would be a good thing to subject to that. i haven't given it much thought.
23:32 mircea_popescu but ftr, lungs aren't awful. especially human lungs are jewels imo.
23:32 mircea_popescu i dunno if you ever had the opportunity to see lung tissue under good magnification, but it's a wonder.
23:32 kanzure "gas everyone with food" just seemed like an appealing thing to momentarily speculat eabout.
23:32 asciilifeform kanzure: i must've missed something : hash functions ?
23:32 kanzure asciilifeform: mircea_popescu seems to be better at reading logs than you :-)
23:33 mircea_popescu asciilifeform in summary, it's impossible to make sense of the leaves of a merkle tree that you don't have the root for, is what he's saying.
23:33 kanzure mircea_popescu: so do you just claim a monopoly on discipline or what
23:33 mircea_popescu kanzure not at all.
23:33 kanzure this was re: the power conversation
23:33 mircea_popescu i don't even claim to be particularly disciplined.
23:34 asciilifeform merkletree in bitcoin is a misfeature.
23:34 mircea_popescu i used the term metaphorically. the convo sounds like noise to you because you don't accept/have the priors. which priors he'd propose are a different authority structure.
23:35 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i was not able to discern these folx's priors -- other than 'we suck thiel's cock on command, like every good redditpilltaker'
23:35 kanzure yes i understand it's merely a metaphor; i think asciilifeform did too.
23:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i dunno, i didn't get very far in.
23:36 kanzure asciilifeform: the stuff about hash functions was re: what exercise of power does mircea_popescu historically engage in. and then you quoted things from the logs. it wasn't that long ago.
23:36 kanzure and then you come to me and argue that you guys aren't meant to look like noise....?
23:36 asciilifeform kanzure: didja read http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/ ?
23:36 mircea_popescu anyway, re lungs, as im a fan apparently : gas exchange happens through a wonderful bevy of yet poorly understood fluid/fluid phenomena. there's some true space tech going on in there.
23:36 asciilifeform i particular the sentence containing ' i will sink any ...'
23:37 asciilifeform *in particular
23:37 kanzure asciilifeform: ah you mean that is one such example. fine.
23:37 asciilifeform !#s missile crisis
23:37 a111 47 results for "missile crisis", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=missile%20crisis
23:37 mircea_popescu kanzure i'll tell you, i read the log every day, first thing, chiefly because it's the higherst snr item i know of. so not really noisy, no.
23:37 kanzure i don't mean the log i just mean your goals and behavior
23:38 mircea_popescu i actually dun have goals. if you measure an absence you'll get noise definitionally, what else.
23:38 kanzure that could explain it
23:39 kanzure so you are a leaf riding some gust of wind. fine.
23:39 asciilifeform ahahahahaha
23:39 mircea_popescu lol check it out, "slavery" manipulation. here, let's resolve this problem : http://trilema.com/2010/nsfw-mosu-cu-joarda/ << meet girl on the left ; girl on the right.
23:39 mircea_popescu there's plenty more.
23:40 mircea_popescu there's no semantic manipulation, i mean it quite literally. when i say chains i mean chains ; when i say whips i mean whips.
23:41 mircea_popescu <kanzure> so you are a leaf riding some gust of wind. fine. << http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575987
23:41 a111 Logged on 2016-12-01 20:37 mircea_popescu: A student told his friend, "My teacher has amazing powers. He moves a pen in the air and characters appear on a piece of paper held on the other side of the river. What does your master do?" His friend replied "My great master follows Zen. When he is hungry, he eats and when he is tired he sleeps."
23:42 kanzure alright so you're an instructor... just like 400 million other idiots.
23:42 mircea_popescu heh.
23:42 kanzure (actually it's not that bad. there's probably less than 400 million of them.)
23:47 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-29#1704721 << recall gabriel_laddel ? who slept through 'boring old' newton's laws, but is 'expert' on, what was it, string derpery, etc
23:47 a111 Logged on 2017-08-29 03:28 mircea_popescu: be it in school, on reddit, whatever. as a result, have deeply nfi about relatively fundamental, basic stuff, and WAY too much familiarity with relatively irrelevant fringe extensions of minor alt-theories in obscure fields.
23:47 asciilifeform pestilential, this.
23:47 mircea_popescu not specifically. but it's common, i see it lots.
23:47 BingoBoingo In other news, Taylor Swift released an awesome white power anthem https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tmd-ClpJxA
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