Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-11-07 | 2017-11-09 → ↓
00:11 mircea_popescu hear hear
00:12 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo ahahaha what the fuck, anyone even supports the "inclusive" pantsuit aggenda ?
00:13 BingoBoingo Only the cuntcovers industry does!
00:13 mircea_popescu amusingly, this is oddly reminescent of the whole http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-02#1259369
00:13 a111 Logged on 2015-09-02 00:34 mircea_popescu: (in kbr's case, it's not that they're stupid, it's that they were raped. the classic "we provide indemnity so now you may not not break the law as we tell you to" trick. "key is in your pocket" in legal parlance)
00:13 mircea_popescu "she has only to speak up and agree with us!!11"
00:13 mircea_popescu as fucking if ?
~ 15 minutes ~
00:29 BingoBoingo Srsly, thankfully she likes making money more than being friends with the rest of the Brittneychain
00:31 mircea_popescu which i expect is by now pretty butthurt out of sheer hunger.
00:37 BingoBoingo Well, benefits of corruption
~ 50 minutes ~
01:28 BingoBoingo In other lols, NYC just damned themselves to another DeBlasio term
~ 27 minutes ~
01:55 BingoBoingo !!Up cruciform
01:55 deedbot cruciform voiced for 30 minutes.
02:00 BingoBoingo In Trilema re-readings http://trilema.com/2013/this-country-is-so-weird/
02:03 cruciform I was reading Paul Sztorc's blog (truthcoin.info), surpised at his level of insight. Made sense once I got to one of many trilema references
02:11 BingoBoingo Well, he's been here before
02:11 BingoBoingo Failed at the "Keep coming back" part
02:11 cruciform yea, couldn't find him in the WoT
02:12 BingoBoingo Well, he failed at knowing to register when it was suggested to him
02:22 mircea_popescu ie http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-23#1283184
02:22 a111 Logged on 2015-09-23 03:26 mircea_popescu: ie Paul Sztorc ?
02:25 mircea_popescu speaking of "uses of virgin oil", http://78.media.tumblr.com/ab51d45a5f1948a77406927b7e2339b9/tumblr_nlzjn9B0L81qega1vo1_1280.jpg
02:35 BingoBoingo Excellent use of the oil
02:36 BingoBoingo One of the great shames is that now, when I plan on leaving th coop, the pretty girls seem to finally be sobering up
~ 3 hours 21 minutes ~
05:57 shinohai http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1733955 <<< Happy Independence Day mod6 y todos! ^.^
05:57 a111 Logged on 2017-11-08 03:37 mod6: Mr. Popescu, Lords, and General Assembly: Today, I'd like to take a moment to observe and congratulate The Most Serene Republic on it's Third Independence Day!
~ 34 minutes ~
06:31 shinohai http://archive.is/XObYm <<< This Combs guy is hilarious "teh ENCRYPTIONS"
~ 2 hours 58 minutes ~
09:30 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-06#1733223 << incidentally it occurs to me shinohai 's link is the definitive solution to the concentration camp problem. vacupacking the entire us population would probably cost < 1bn in materials.
09:30 a111 Logged on 2017-11-06 16:55 shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-06#1733204 Got you a native packed and ready to go: http://btcinfo.sdf.org/uploads/chinagirl.webm
09:30 davout http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1733955 <<< mazeltov
09:30 a111 Logged on 2017-11-08 03:37 mod6: Mr. Popescu, Lords, and General Assembly: Today, I'd like to take a moment to observe and congratulate The Most Serene Republic on it's Third Independence Day!
09:30 mircea_popescu build vacupack units, keep them fed with biomaterial (plastic, schmucks), dump the results at sea. a 100tdw ship should be able to carry 1mn of the shitheads at a time.
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09:31 mircea_popescu sea dumping in plastic wrapping ensures they dissolve over time, sort-of like a slow release pill for the ocean.
09:31 mircea_popescu and with that... problem solved.
09:31 mircea_popescu one summer or something.
09:32 shinohai Should I assemble a ship and crew?
09:33 mircea_popescu eh, what's the rush.
09:34 shinohai One could produce the plastic from corn, reducing costs perhaps and ensuring biodegradability.
09:35 asciilifeform they'll outgas, pop
09:35 mircea_popescu yeah.
09:35 asciilifeform needs relief valve.
09:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform plastic dun pop. hence your coca cola bottle.
09:35 asciilifeform bottle takes 2-3 atm
09:35 asciilifeform bag - prolly not
09:35 mircea_popescu can be made to, certainly.
09:36 asciilifeform ( anyone seen old films of elephant carcass rotting in the sun ? eventually explodes, spectacularly )
09:36 asciilifeform at any rate i have nfi why the bag. brick, chain. feed the fishes.
09:36 mircea_popescu there's more tolerance built into the pack you know, than into the skin
09:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you don't want to feed the fishes too much at a time.
09:37 shinohai Would cause a mess of algae!
09:37 mircea_popescu and a coupla kgs of plastic WAY cheaper than 10kg chain + 50kg brick
09:37 mircea_popescu redditard already buried more than his ass is worth in resources.
09:38 mircea_popescu this method allows perfectly dehumanizing death, safe transportation, slow release, it's the proper continuation of lime pit.
09:39 mircea_popescu can even have hello kitty or kek flag or whatever the fuck warhol can paint the dreamers require.
09:39 asciilifeform betcha decomposition in bauxite processor ( bzzzt -- pfff ) costs fewer joules than transport to sea.
09:39 mircea_popescu naaah. transport is cheap.
09:39 mircea_popescu few thousand bux per million.
09:40 asciilifeform did diesel cheapen while i slept
09:40 mircea_popescu nope.
09:40 asciilifeform tho i suppose it depends where in the sea, from where
09:40 mircea_popescu well what, you're not taking them on a fucking cruise. coupla hundred knots offshore.
09:41 mircea_popescu will replenish the cod off cape cod something fantastic, too!
09:41 shinohai As long as producing plastic from corn, perhaps biodiesel also
09:41 asciilifeform carcasses have annoying habit of sailing back to shore
09:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform not these. see, they only pop in 6 to 36 months when they're well outgassed.
09:42 asciilifeform pop yes , but they float 2-3 wks in
09:42 asciilifeform iirc.
09:42 mircea_popescu this might well be a problem. will require some research.
09:42 asciilifeform i suggest 'trocar'
09:42 asciilifeform ( mortician's needle )
09:43 asciilifeform for outgas valve.
09:43 mircea_popescu might well work yeah. stick in knee automatically at time of packaging.
09:43 shinohai Post on reddit "Free cruise on the S.S. TMSR! For details go to #trilema on freenode!"
09:45 shinohai (Though doesn't have to be Single-Screw steamship)
09:45 asciilifeform it goes in the gut, where most of the gas generation.
09:45 mircea_popescu normally. but this is exceptional time.
09:45 BingoBoingo Now is floating bag *really* a problem? Or a warning
09:46 BingoBoingo Hay mas futuro!
09:46 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo moar like a sign of victory.
09:46 mircea_popescu "i wouldn't live on a place where reddit bags aren't visible from shore"
09:46 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: if they simply float back, not much point in the boat, eh. may as well then stack'em as pyramid, like chingis khan
09:46 mircea_popescu end up on people's arms and shit.
09:47 mircea_popescu "my great-grandfather was clipper on a redditard disposition ship, beotch!!11"
09:47 shinohai lol
09:47 BingoBoingo Anyways, to make up for outgassing without floating, you'd just have to sink the bags deeper... if you really wanted to
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09:47 mircea_popescu anyway. let it be plainly stated that current idiot's expectation they'll be shot is about as ridiculous as 1940s jews'. who the fuck can be bothered.
09:48 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo depth just increases buoyancy.
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09:48 asciilifeform precedent -- french did not even bother with bags
09:48 mircea_popescu yes, depth pressure will keep the plastic from popping ; but not from floating.
09:49 BingoBoingo Ah
09:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's an ecological consideration. cheaper than burning etc.
09:49 asciilifeform speaking of them barges
09:51 asciilifeform !#s noyade
09:51 a111 2 results for "noyade", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=noyade
09:52 shinohai iirc Muslims prescribed lashing body buried at sea between two wooden planks, so that it might float ashore and be buried by fellow Muslim facing Mecca.
09:52 mircea_popescu the killing itself is a minor part of the problem. coupla cents budgeted at most.
09:52 mircea_popescu the majority of the expense goes to making the corpse "Safe", sterilizing it.
09:52 mircea_popescu something the "planning experts" germans never throught of.
09:52 mircea_popescu the problem with a dead idiot is that it converts upon dying from a large piece of excrement into a large piece of actual excrement.
09:54 asciilifeform biodiesel is promising imho field.
09:54 BingoBoingo Hey, people just want to be shitty
09:54 mircea_popescu maybe ; though all the bones and shit....
09:54 mircea_popescu biodisel would be winner if we were intelligent celenterates or gasteropodes. for mammals not so hot.
09:55 asciilifeform grind bones for fertilizer. iirc there was a thread.
09:56 mircea_popescu calcium not so much of a fertilizer.
09:56 mircea_popescu back in ro i used ash fertilizer, it was de-boned prior to packing.
09:59 asciilifeform the bauxite thing begins to look like a winner imho
09:59 mircea_popescu nah. the burning's resource-expensive.
09:59 asciilifeform ( you still gotta dump the ash somewhere tho )
09:59 BingoBoingo Yeah, bone meal's this thing used sparingly for tomatoes to prevent blossom end rot. Specialty stuff for picky plants. Otherwise it's just more salt.
10:00 mircea_popescu the correct move is to take the dreamers from the section of earth inhabited (land) to the section of land uninhabited (sea) with a minimum of dirt and contamination produced.
10:00 asciilifeform and naturally you do it somewhere with cheap mains current ( the bauxiteries are helpfully situated there already )
10:00 mircea_popescu there is no such thing as "cheap mains current". it's expensive universally.
10:01 asciilifeform cheap relatively to fueling the boat.
10:01 mircea_popescu dude...
10:02 asciilifeform and imho there's no particular reason there could not be 'market economy' in redditor disposal.
10:02 asciilifeform 'we do it cheaper!'
10:02 asciilifeform 'we do first 1,000 phree'
10:03 mircea_popescu asciilifeform understand, the per-kg energetic cost of incineration is > 1MJ. this means 100 tons cost you over 100 GJ, or in fuel terms about a ton of gasoline. you can't be spending 1% by mass ffs.
10:04 asciilifeform was speaking of arc furnace.
10:04 asciilifeform dun think it costs anything like MJ.
10:04 mircea_popescu because why, thermodynamics is your friend and suddenly corpse isn't ~= water soaked aerogel ?
10:05 asciilifeform !~calc 2260 * 50
10:05 jhvh1 asciilifeform: 2260 * 50 = 113000
10:06 asciilifeform kJ for 50kg patient
10:06 asciilifeform so mircea_popescu has it
10:06 mircea_popescu ahahaha what.
10:06 mircea_popescu meanwhile! container ship burns ~200 tons per day doing 25 knots. this means it covers 200 knots (go and return) out of 150 tons or so.
10:06 asciilifeform heat of vapourization of kg of water
10:06 mircea_popescu asciilifeform did you omit adding the heat to WARM water to vaporization ?
10:07 mircea_popescu !~calc 4360 * 80 * 50
10:07 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: 4360 * 80 * 50 = 17440000
10:07 mircea_popescu forgot this larger lobe right here.
10:07 asciilifeform what's the 80 ?
10:07 mircea_popescu i guess 63.4 would be more accurate.
10:07 mircea_popescu gotta take them from room temp to boiling.
10:08 asciilifeform speaking of dessication, why not sahara dump ?
10:08 asciilifeform as good as sea, neh
10:09 mircea_popescu conceivable, yes. but much more distant. gotta load and then unload, move on land, meh.
10:09 mircea_popescu ocean is conveniently located everywhere.
10:09 asciilifeform tru
10:09 davout http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1734050 <<< opposite actually
10:09 a111 Logged on 2017-11-08 14:48 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo depth just increases buoyancy.
10:10 mircea_popescu the deeper a mol of gas is, the greater the buoyant force experienced by the flexible container holding it.
10:10 asciilifeform depends on whether compressible object, neh
10:10 mircea_popescu not linearly, but yes.
10:10 mircea_popescu the reason deep things seem to raise "slowly" is because friction, which increases faster than the buoyancy force does.
10:10 davout the gas gets compressed, therefore moves less water, therefore less buoyant
10:10 mircea_popescu yes, but do teh math! doesn't get compressed ~enough~.
10:11 mircea_popescu gets somewhat compressed.
10:11 davout 1L of air gets to .5L at 10m depth, experiences mucho less force pushing it up
10:11 asciilifeform still net up.
10:11 davout yeah, obviously
10:11 mircea_popescu davout it's a log. you are looking at the wrong side of this.
10:12 mircea_popescu from 5km to 10km, loses 13% of volume, gains 2x force.
10:12 davout but upward force decreases as depth increases
10:12 davout its not linear obviously
10:12 mircea_popescu but that is the important part.
10:12 davout which is why most baro-traumatisms occur between 10m-0m when scuba diving
10:12 mircea_popescu right.
10:12 mircea_popescu but we're not shallow burrying idiots here
10:13 davout yeah, just saying "depth increases buoyancy" is not correct
10:13 mircea_popescu it is within the context it was used!!!11
10:14 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1734048 << deeper, as in deeper.
10:14 a111 Logged on 2017-11-08 14:47 BingoBoingo: Anyways, to make up for outgassing without floating, you'd just have to sink the bags deeper... if you really wanted to
10:14 davout yeah, marginal gains of depth do decrease
10:15 davout naive question, but why no burning?
10:17 davout wouldn't it self-sustain after a while?
10:17 mircea_popescu nah.
10:17 mircea_popescu to do the math properly :
10:17 mircea_popescu !~calc 4360 * 63.4 + 2260
10:17 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: 4360 * 63.4 + 2260 = 278684
10:18 mircea_popescu the cost of ~mere vaporization~ of the ~mere water~ in the "water soaked aerogel" composing a shithead is ~280kJ PER KILOGRAM.
10:19 mircea_popescu this disregards any losses due to the aerogel part, which insulates, and also any further losses from "boiling is not enough", as well as passive loss of heat into your apparatus etc.
10:19 mircea_popescu thereby a lowball estimate of "heat to dispose of one" is probably in excess of 30MJ per capita, as opposed to the 1MJ originally estimated above.
10:20 davout and how much energy does the burning generate once water is gone?
10:20 mircea_popescu at the outer margin half a mj ?
10:21 mircea_popescu there;s a reason all bodies rot and no bodies catch fire.
10:25 mircea_popescu cheap way to evaluate this is dietary calories (the conversion is based on ... heat capacity of water again). so basically 1 calorie is 4.2j and the caloric value of untrimmed carcass MAYBE 1 cal/gram. thereby... 100kgs = 420kj.
10:26 mircea_popescu (protein is ~4, sweets ~7, alcohol~9... so if you take a serious alcohol-only meal prior maybe reach the .5mj)
10:28 asciilifeform btw somewhere in the l0gz are the crematory manuals i linked few yrs back
10:28 asciilifeform they have detailed discussion
10:29 asciilifeform ( in particular re the effect of fat )
10:29 asciilifeform redditus may in fact be suitable for self-sustaining fire in a way ww2 folx were not.
10:31 asciilifeform ancient persia had an answer for the 'aerogel insulates' problem. they stuck wicks, of a sort, in the patient, and lit'em
10:43 mircea_popescu dirty and slow.
10:44 * mircea_popescu notices he had protein and sweets switched around. aaanyways
10:45 mircea_popescu !!pay diana_coman .75
10:45 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/67L86/?raw=true
~ 20 minutes ~
11:05 asciilifeform in other lulz, amazon co nao offering... i shit thee not, 'Not at home? Not a problem. As a Prime member, you can get packages securely delivered into your home without being there. Plus, grant access to the people you trust, like your family, friends, dog walker, or house cleaner—no more leaving a key under the mat.' << 'cloud'-controlled door lock.
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11:08 mircea_popescu heh.
11:08 mircea_popescu asciilifeform recall when post-war commies did the whole "you gotta take so and so people into "your" house because it's ours and we house people there" ? what gnashing of teeth, what anger it caused ?
11:09 mircea_popescu apparently all they had to do is call it "prime"
11:09 asciilifeform i suppose the breaking-doors thing was deemed arduous, traumatic, costly
11:09 asciilifeform better to train the cattle to open on own power.
11:10 mircea_popescu as per above discussion lol.
11:10 asciilifeform and what post-war
11:10 asciilifeform communal flats were a thing in su from 20s up
11:11 asciilifeform i even got to live in the (tail end) of one.
11:11 mircea_popescu well, i was talking about european countries.
11:11 mircea_popescu the "liberated"
11:12 asciilifeform well su naturally didn't happen in ro until post ww2 yea
11:12 asciilifeform incidentally asciilifeform is currently puzzled re what exactly happened in '45-'47 in ro
11:12 asciilifeform under king mihai
11:13 asciilifeform ( who, incidentally, last i heard was alive still )
11:14 mircea_popescu sure he is.
11:14 mircea_popescu well, what, shall i produce an ad hoc history lesson ?
11:14 asciilifeform link worx too
11:14 mircea_popescu you really think there exista another romanian scholar ?
11:14 mircea_popescu anyway, lessee
11:16 mircea_popescu romania had a great king, carol 1st. he was a scion of carol of hohenzollern and maria murat. romania also had three shitty kings : ferdinand, carol 2 and mihai, in decreasing order of shittytude -- the first one was like a librarian, inept but disciplined. these come off leopold and some portuguese infanta. MUCH worse material.
11:17 mircea_popescu the switch happened because the original carol didn't have children. which happened because "marriage", dumbest fucking shit ever. but we digress.
11:17 mircea_popescu the 2nd carol was very much a redditard. he quit to pursue his whoring interests, leaving the congenitally retarded mihai "on the throne". this is through and through power vacuum. eventually he returned, and tried to be a sort of local mussolini, tho it didn't so much catch.
11:18 mircea_popescu romania got meanwhile engaged on the eastern front by general antonescu, who was literally as he describes himself, a military man being sucked into a power vacuum and trying to do best could be done.
11:19 mircea_popescu entirely ineptly led german war effort, very poorly supplied, resulted in an untenable military situation at the don's bend : romanian forces were out of ammunition, out of fuel, out of anything. the russians counterattacked the two sections held by romanians, and killed a quarter million people.
11:19 asciilifeform to run out of fuel, for army of ~the~ petrostan of europe, is quite a feat
11:19 mircea_popescu german management.
11:20 mircea_popescu the reason specifically they did that had nothing to do with hating the romanians or thinking they suck (which they didn't, on the contrary, germans even had german troops under romanian command) was that general sanatescu gave out the whole order of battle + everything else to the russians.
11:21 mircea_popescu as a result, the victorious revolutionaries found themselves in '45 in a dubious situation : they had absolutely no political legitimacy. outside of mihai, who was mentally incompetent then as now, but whose two aunts were very willing to sell out ; and sanatescu, who didn't think much of them (for cause), they had ~no one in bucharest.
11:21 mircea_popescu so they cut a deal with mihai (an amusing episode in itself, mihai was very much krammer in that negotiation episode, "we offer free lifetime cappucinos and,,," "ILL TAKE IT!!!1", and made a govt with sanatescu.
11:22 mircea_popescu from there on they forged an alliance with petru groza, a sorta-maybe left (less so than today's xtian democrats for instance) with some popular appeal, pretended to have won the election on ~43% of the vote, then leaned on individual ministers to play along, then scoured the prisons for credible ministalins. picked gheorghe gheorghiu dej and that was mostly it, they withdrew.
11:22 mircea_popescu this is ~the whole story of soviet colonization of romania.
11:23 asciilifeform sounds almost exactly same story as hungary
11:24 mircea_popescu just about.
11:24 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/le-bal/ << Trilema - Le Bal
11:24 asciilifeform ty for the mini-article mircea_popescu . it makes sense.
11:27 mircea_popescu anyway. the russian secular view of romania is a sort of balanced chechenia-japan mix.
11:27 asciilifeform howsthat
11:27 mircea_popescu "fucking scary batshing insane barbarians of tiny size and austrian palaces. NIGGA WHAT?>!>!>!!!?"
11:28 asciilifeform dunno, at least from my perch common d00d's pov was 'europistan-lite', 'less retarded than us because at least slightly farther in magic compass direction'
11:28 mircea_popescu not altogether an un-understandable or for that matter incorrect view. moreover, owing to romania's incredible literary sterility as manifested as a long term sustained inability to meaningfully write themselves...
11:28 mircea_popescu asciilifeform im trying to condense together a period starting in 1850.
11:30 mircea_popescu including you know, the "pls halp" telegram, the turning of that war, the strange situation of ww1, the taking of odessa and march on rome, it's a complicated century.
11:32 asciilifeform 'literary sterility' in this case i suspect comes from being very new to 'being country' -- not so much literature from finland, for instance, likewise
11:33 asciilifeform if your best literators learn french and move to paris -- problem.
11:33 asciilifeform ( ionesco in particular comes to mind )
11:34 asciilifeform rather like the literary-sterility of, e.g., nebraska in usa.
11:34 asciilifeform what kind of literate man wants to stay in nebraska.
11:34 mircea_popescu this is nonsense, romania was culturally powerful before the us was discovered, in numerous instantiations.
11:34 asciilifeform folx living in what is today romania. but did they do it 'under flag' of romania ?
11:35 asciilifeform iirc in mircea_popescu's piece just the other day was 'caragiale didn't need no stinking flag'
11:35 mircea_popescu it wouldn't make a difference.
11:35 mircea_popescu i don't care dimitrie cantemir's writings were "under flag of moldavia" or "Wallachia" or "greater kekistan"
11:36 mircea_popescu anyway, the problem isn't creators, that romania has. the problem is romania itself, as dumbly impermeable as fresh clay.
11:36 asciilifeform common feature of all agraristans neh
11:37 mircea_popescu there's two prongs that drive to "i understand empire france by reading balzac" : 1. that balzac writes and 2. that the whole fucking world buys his foilletons.
11:37 mircea_popescu romania's problem is 2 not 1.
11:37 asciilifeform the english managed to solve 2 without making any dent in 1
11:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform very much so, yes, and especially of this worst agraristan of all, "we're still wearing same clothes as roman colonists 2000 years ago and really speak the same language and fuck you"
11:37 asciilifeform ( and nao their rubbish is everywhere to this day )
11:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform quite exactly.
11:38 mircea_popescu but trilema is many things, and among them a very pointed exercise in this discussion.
11:38 asciilifeform i could think of worse things to be than 'time capsule' of old roman periphery tho.
11:38 mircea_popescu i deliberately took to employing a classical renaissance procedure, of re-writing. that i rewrote a bunch of classical works and the whole set of "Specialists" did not find themselves under a life-or-death obligation to drop everything they were doing and pick up this is one thing
11:39 mircea_popescu but i, and on multiple occasions, rewrote the work of LIVING AUTHORS. with their knowledge, that never amounted to more than a piddly comment on the trilema article in question.
11:39 asciilifeform but somehow when old shakespeare does it , 'mega-writer'
11:39 mircea_popescu think of this for a moment -- you, joe schmoe, write something. and someone comes and changes it. and you... HAVE NOTHING TO SAY.
11:39 mircea_popescu this is the problem of 2, and it is as deep as it gets. mentally isolated, solitary lonely lost dorks.
11:40 mircea_popescu can't meaningfully interact with a dog, let alone their wife, let alone you know, chtulhu from the depths of the abyss.
11:40 asciilifeform from asciilifeform's pov this is what culture ~is~ -- when ben_vulpes writes own vtron, or mircea_popescu makes own jazz riff on asciilifeform's 'chumps' article, or the various other.
11:40 mircea_popescu ikr.
11:41 mircea_popescu 2 is 2.
11:41 asciilifeform the basic problem of agrarians -- insufficient fire under the heels
11:41 mircea_popescu on one of the trips, i had slut stop car on side of river while i took pics. fresh mud, inexperienced offroad driver, car got mudded.
11:41 mircea_popescu the wheel turned as well as ever ... but the car... it didn't move.
11:41 mircea_popescu mud, romania.
11:42 mircea_popescu very "conservative" and "tolerant" people, they call themselves. it's true, but the problem is the mud fits this definition.
11:42 asciilifeform lol
11:45 asciilifeform ( meanwhile, in very vintage lulz -- https://www.msk.kp.ru/daily/26735/3763226/ >> 'Когда милиция устраивала облаву, в доме вырубали электричество. Импортные видаки без света не отдавали кассету с запретным видео. А у ВМ-12 был привод на пружинке, работал без энергии. Поэтому хо
11:45 asciilifeform зяин салона успевал вынуть кассету с эротикой и спрятать - за показ таких фильмов давали три года.' )
11:46 asciilifeform ( re why folx bought sov-made vcr, in preference to better-quality sony. answ : it had spring-powered cassette ejector, cops cut mains current when busting 'pr0n house' but could still get rid of the tape, in sov vcr )
11:48 mircea_popescu ahaha
11:48 mircea_popescu wait, is pron house brothel ?
11:48 asciilifeform nah just folx partying with tapes
11:48 mircea_popescu ...
11:48 mircea_popescu you mean, folks over the age of 14 ?!
11:48 asciilifeform penalty nominally 3y imprisonment
11:49 mircea_popescu this is some of the dumbest shit i ever heard. why not have women ?
11:49 mircea_popescu whole story reminds me of http://trilema.com/2012/deci-ca-sa-va-incepeti-noul-an-intr-un-mod-adecvat/
11:49 asciilifeform ask the arabs ? or whatever monkeys just recently discovered pr0n
11:50 mircea_popescu i am (i guess?) proud to say that ro pron party included womenz to my knowledge. wtf is the point without, they jack off on the zacusci ?
11:50 asciilifeform ( process seems to resemble chukchas discovering vodka )
11:51 asciilifeform and i suspect that the story dwells on the cassette because being in a room full of chix, who may nor may not be whoring, was generally not an indictable crime
11:51 asciilifeform whereas 'magic tape' was .
11:51 mircea_popescu aaa
11:52 mircea_popescu thanks, i was having serious wtfx.
11:52 asciilifeform tho fwiw i have nfi whether they had chix in attendance , or sat like redditors in modern american dormitory, salivating . asciilifeform familiar with the period largely through myth & legend.
11:52 mircea_popescu anyway, wouldn't usually be room fulla chicks, unless in some narrow cases. generally the way this works is usualyl 2, rarely 1 if the men are poor or 3 if the men are showoffs, whores and however many men can stand each other, usually 8 +- 3
11:52 * trinque remembers a time from his youth when drunk, chick puts on porn in group mixed company, figures hey, we're gonna fuck, proceeds as such.
11:53 trinque much to the shock of all
11:53 mircea_popescu they drink, watch porn, gangbang. it's a "fishing trip"
11:53 trinque it was times like these I realized what a sad place I lived in
11:53 asciilifeform trinque: why sad ? sounds like happy memory neh
11:53 mircea_popescu trinque why ? didn;'t take ?
11:53 trinque nah bunch of liberal cunts "omg what? no!"
11:53 mircea_popescu so kick them out.
11:53 trinque wasn't my place; kicked myself out with one of their bottles
11:54 mircea_popescu also works.
11:58 trinque ben_vulpes has commented on this cognitive dissonance among the feminist cunts in portland. will go to the stripclub to signal lack of patriarchy something something, but find prostitution abhorrent
11:58 mircea_popescu um
11:59 mircea_popescu tell them it doesn't count untill they kiss the dancer's slit.
11:59 trinque lol
12:00 mircea_popescu one of the better lulz re this happened at c3, in ba. bucnha us at a large table at this dinner-and-tango places, someone brought along some blondy german chick, i dun recal who
12:00 mircea_popescu and she wanted a drink and the waiter came over to ask me and i said sure and she was all "why is he asking you ?"
12:00 mircea_popescu "why do you think ?"
12:00 mircea_popescu i'm guessing that scored one for teh patriarchy.
12:01 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-14#1655878 << inexcuably rude, not knowing how that works
12:01 a111 Logged on 2017-05-14 16:50 trinque: then two women at table wail "oh he didn't shake our hands"
12:02 asciilifeform lol iirc ben_vulpes's chix
12:02 mircea_popescu i can't recall now if this was the same chich some elements in the { ben_vulpes , davout } set might've fucked at some later point.
12:03 mircea_popescu since trinque had me re,read http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-14#1655881 << i am happy to report dood actually gave us a lift later on. his car was fulla various condiments.
12:03 a111 Logged on 2017-05-14 16:51 mircea_popescu: the (very indian) chef of great local place actually came out of kitchen to see these two people who were eating all the stuff i rodered ; but couldn't summon the courage to more than bow from a distance and scurry off.
12:03 mircea_popescu apparently he goes through the caudine forks to supply his kitchen with proper stuffs.
12:09 davout http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1734153 <<< it does beat "your house lock on the ethereum chain"
12:09 a111 Logged on 2017-11-08 16:05 asciilifeform: in other lulz, amazon co nao offering... i shit thee not, 'Not at home? Not a problem. As a Prime member, you can get packages securely delivered into your home without being there. Plus, grant access to the people you trust, like your family, friends, dog walker, or house cleaner—no more leaving a key under the mat.' << 'cloud'-controlled door lock.
12:09 asciilifeform davout: the distinction is lost on me
12:10 davout you're not missing much tbh
12:13 asciilifeform oh btw re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1733937 thread >> apparently it was a straight clone of hruschev-era 'Север' .
12:13 a111 Logged on 2017-11-08 01:43 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re 'fram, ursul polar' -- the ancient ЗИЛ-like fridge in 'museum of communist konsoomer' is a 'fram'
12:19 asciilifeform meanwhile, in the world of 31333337 w4r3z and trials in absentia, https://archive.is/SCF7O >> 'The American Chemical Society (ACS) has won a lawsuit against the pirate research-paper website Sci-Hub ... ordered Sci-Hub's operators to pay the ACS US$4.8 million ... The judge also ordered that any party “in active concert or participation” with Sci-Hub should “cease facilitating” access to the repository. This means that the AC
12:19 asciilifeform S could request Internet services including web providers, search engines and domain-name registrars to stop linking or to block access to Sci-Hub and the various domains it is hosted under.'
12:20 asciilifeform 'Such an order by a US court is exceptional, Carroll says. “In general, our federal courts do not have the power to issue orders against people or entities that were not part of the lawsuit.” But he adds that US federal rules for civil procedures such as this do sometimes allow injunctions against persons who are in ‘active participation’ with an enjoined party. The current lawsuit is an example of that, he says.'
↖
12:20 asciilifeform gold.
12:21 asciilifeform plus 'Commenting is currently unavailable.'
12:30 davout so apparently the segwit2x derps finally yielded https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-segwit2x/2017-November/000685.html
↖ ↖
12:31 asciilifeform lol!!
12:32 asciilifeform just when delish phreee giveaway of btc was so close!11
12:32 * asciilifeform muchly enjoyed the last idjitphork
12:33 ben_vulpes mthreat's chica i believa
↖
12:33 mod6 davout: thx for posting
12:33 asciilifeform !~seen mthreat
12:33 jhvh1 asciilifeform: I have not seen mthreat.
12:33 mod6 ben_vulpes: aha, yeah, i think that's correct
12:34 asciilifeform !#seen mthreat
12:34 a111 2017-04-01 <mthreat> ya the -800 is pretty new right
12:34 ben_vulpes but very friendly
12:34 ben_vulpes "the most natural thing"
12:36 trinque !!ticker market --all
12:36 trinque not even close eh
12:36 trinque !~ticker --market all
12:36 jhvh1 trinque: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 7650.89, vol: 15621.46032284 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 7730.0, vol: 56197.5670289 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 7655.1, vol: 4215.77288223 | Volume-weighted last average: 7709.59388188
12:36 ben_vulpes shit damn
12:40 mod6 aha
12:41 trinque https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/segwit2x/ << bwahaha
12:41 asciilifeform lol! still >0 !
12:42 asciilifeform what's the logic, gotta wonder, 'maybe they'll reconsider surrendering' ?
↖ ↖
12:43 asciilifeform !~ticker --market all
12:43 jhvh1 asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 7753.42, vol: 16000.49915005 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 7788.8, vol: 57699.4896064 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 7729.5, vol: 4246.09943359 | Volume-weighted last average: 7778.30696083
12:43 asciilifeform notbad.jpg
12:46 asciilifeform lol orig link ddos-dead
12:47 trinque now at $360.13 (-73.15%)
12:47 shinohai http://archive.is/BUktC
12:48 asciilifeform the brick has lost its wings.
12:49 mod6 thx shinohai
12:49 shinohai ^.^
12:51 asciilifeform !#seen mike_c
12:51 a111 2017-09-11 <mike_c> congrats! I did that a long time ago too. Good luck with it.
12:51 asciilifeform !#seen Framedragger
12:51 a111 2017-10-06 <Framedragger> yes but someone committing to the project without having the necessary time is not far away from malice, imho
12:58 asciilifeform 248...
12:59 trinque graph of folks that didn't get the news over time
12:59 asciilifeform to the antimoon!!
13:05 davout http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1734309 <<< logic is that on some platform that offered "prefork coin splitting" the prefork-SW2X-coinz are needed to merge with the prefork-actual-bitcoin in order to have a prefork-full-bitcoin
13:05 a111 Logged on 2017-11-08 17:42 asciilifeform: what's the logic, gotta wonder, 'maybe they'll reconsider surrendering' ?
13:06 davout people buying them do so in order to be able to withdraw from platforms immediately without waiting for the contract expiration on nov. 16th
13:06 davout therefore, nonzero value
13:06 asciilifeform lol 280, somebody... ~buying~
13:06 asciilifeform prolly for the reason davout explained. rerun of goxcoin.
13:07 asciilifeform ( whatever happened to goxcoin ? )
13:07 trinque sold mine to that btcbuilder bag holder for a huge haircut
13:07 davout will converge to perceived risk pricing of leaving buttcoin on a platform until contract expiration
13:07 davout goxcoin procedures still ongoing i hear
13:19 shinohai https://radkink.com/ <<< Some retarded feminists are giving away sex toys "because men orgasm more than women" or something
↖
13:19 shinohai Is this good for buttplugcoin?
~ 1 hours 44 minutes ~
15:03 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1734285 << and, evidently, anyone gives a shit what the usg does. because hurr.
15:03 a111 Logged on 2017-11-08 17:20 asciilifeform: 'Such an order by a US court is exceptional, Carroll says. “In general, our federal courts do not have the power to issue orders against people or entities that were not part of the lawsuit.” But he adds that US federal rules for civil procedures such as this do sometimes allow injunctions against persons who are in ‘active participation’ with an enjoined party. The current lawsuit is an example of that, he says.'
15:04 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1734288 << less thick than the previous set, i guess.
15:04 a111 Logged on 2017-11-08 17:30 davout: so apparently the segwit2x derps finally yielded https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-segwit2x/2017-November/000685.html
15:04 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1734292 << nah, brunette girl.
15:04 a111 Logged on 2017-11-08 17:33 ben_vulpes: mthreat's chica i believa
15:05 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1734309 << the logic of numbers someone printed on a website is "when did they last summon the energy to edit the file"
15:05 a111 Logged on 2017-11-08 17:42 asciilifeform: what's the logic, gotta wonder, 'maybe they'll reconsider surrendering' ?
15:06 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: the german?
15:06 mircea_popescu no, mthreat's girl.
15:06 ben_vulpes the german, who is under discussion, came with mthreat
15:06 ben_vulpes not necessarily 'his girl'
15:06 mircea_popescu ah ?
15:06 mircea_popescu you know what, i think you're right actually.
15:07 ben_vulpes will wonders never cease
15:08 mircea_popescu lmao
15:08 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1734336 << this is a fundamental property of sexuate species.
15:08 a111 Logged on 2017-11-08 18:19 shinohai: https://radkink.com/ <<< Some retarded feminists are giving away sex toys "because men orgasm more than women" or something
15:09 shinohai But hey free buttplugs!
15:10 mircea_popescu this is like "free hubcaps!!!". if i can buy a car i don't need anyone's hubcaps wtf.
15:10 mircea_popescu and in other similar lulz, http://trilema.com/2016/introducing-permanence/#comment-123499
15:12 shinohai lol
15:15 asciilifeform !~ticker --market all
15:16 jhvh1 asciilifeform: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 7241.03, vol: 22876.12064007 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 7164.3, vol: 88327.80680416 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 7204.6, vol: 5417.66588459 | Volume-weighted last average: 7181.22325251
15:16 asciilifeform !~calc 7241 * 11000
15:16 jhvh1 asciilifeform: 7241 * 11000 = 79651000
15:16 asciilifeform notbad.spam
15:16 mircea_popescu hey, modest man.
15:16 asciilifeform tho i suspect somebody hasn't updated his spamatron since 2010 or so
15:19 mircea_popescu asciilifeform registered on the 7th current ie yest
15:19 mircea_popescu firstvds.ru
15:19 asciilifeform then gotta wonder, wai only promise 80 megabuxorz worth of coin, why not 9000.
15:20 mircea_popescu Roman Pashkevich ul.Koshkina, d.15, kv.4 Moskva.
15:20 asciilifeform and how one even goes about picking such a figure.
15:20 mircea_popescu amusing fellow, also has "1-milion-rubley" and so on
15:21 asciilifeform lol that's less than a toyota
15:21 mircea_popescu (also published physicist of same name -- i suspect the father)
15:21 asciilifeform sad.
15:21 mircea_popescu tis the name that caught the eye
15:23 mircea_popescu https://archive.is/dMDOP <<>> https://archive.is/aWkOK << a study in usg-independent "technology".
15:24 mircea_popescu exactly like the silicon valley variant in all points.
15:26 shinohai Rather like http://btce.pro/
15:28 mircea_popescu shinohai nah, that's more sophisticated.
15:29 * shinohai likes how they bother with cloudflare, yet leak true ip due to mis-configured mail server
15:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i find amusing the, eg, "suv" toyota recently waxed and parked in mud in front of a cheap brick wall. evidently, "vehemently opulent pork sausages".
15:43 mircea_popescu shinohai sadly, nobody does any schooling with the independent minded young'uns.
15:43 mircea_popescu and in other lulz, eulora player complains about game generated name. "it sounds like a pornstar!"
15:43 mircea_popescu the name in question being, baldwin lushdrizzle.
↖
15:46 shinohai Googling `lushdrizzle` returns mostly lemon caek results, no pornstars.
15:46 shinohai I am disappoint.
15:46 mircea_popescu i would propose this is because pornstars lack imagination not because the name lacks suggestiveness.
15:48 shinohai I got pretty lucky with my generated Eulora name, was happy with it.
15:49 davout http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1734385 <<< such ai
15:49 a111 Logged on 2017-11-08 20:43 mircea_popescu: the name in question being, baldwin lushdrizzle.
15:49 mircea_popescu ikr
~ 16 minutes ~
16:05 lobbes note to n00bs out there: even if you had set your key to NOT expire, remember to *self-sign* both your pub AND your sub (and make sure people have copies of this updated pubkey))
16:06 lobbes thanks to trinque to his patience with me while I figured all that out the hard way
16:06 mircea_popescu what happened, your sub expired ? detailz.
16:08 lobbes all good now, but I had set my primary pub to not expire I think a year ago. But of course, I neglected to push this updated key to either keyservers or to, for example, deedbot
16:08 mircea_popescu ah
16:08 lobbes rookie mistake
16:13 lobbes and yeah, I overlooked that I apparently had to also remove expiration on the sub -explicitly- (via gpg --edit-key). Even though it was showing the sub as 'expiration: none' after I had removed expiration on the pub way back when
↖ ↖
16:16 mircea_popescu myeah, kinda unreliable apparatus.
16:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'Я их специально скрыл под замком, для того чтобы отсеять зевак и прохожих.' << lel
16:17 asciilifeform afaik we dun use 'key servers' for anything no moar
16:18 asciilifeform https://archive.is/4YKg5 << in other fritzchip lulz
16:19 mircea_popescu notrly, no. koch-gpg iotself though.
16:19 asciilifeform only if you pull by fp
16:19 asciilifeform which why wouldyou.
16:19 mircea_popescu huh ?
16:19 asciilifeform fpism is braindamaged.
16:20 davout what's wrong with long fps again?
16:21 asciilifeform fwiw i never pushed my final gpg key to sks, and have nfi if it's there or not
16:21 asciilifeform davout: it's a sha1
16:21 asciilifeform and cannot be changed per the rfc.
16:21 davout ah right
16:21 davout pull by full key then!11 genius!
16:22 asciilifeform pull by getting key... from people
16:22 trinque deedbot doesn't use keyservers no, so it didn't know he updated his key
16:23 davout asciilifeform: yeah, or use sane hash
16:23 asciilifeform this is The Right Thing
16:23 asciilifeform davout: YOU CANNOT USE SANE HASH WITH GPG FP
16:23 asciilifeform rfc specified sha1.
16:23 mircea_popescu at no point was this discussion about key identifiers. the fact that gpg reports "no expiration" FALSELY, as it reports all sorts of false or otherwise stupid, misleading etc non-facts is at issue
16:23 mircea_popescu koch-gpg is an unreliable apparatus in the vein of random-shooting pistols etc.
16:23 trinque 100%
16:24 asciilifeform it's approx on par with the old chinese leather cannon, even chance of exploding
16:24 davout asciilifeform: i'm not speaking about gpg as its currently-existing braindamaged implementation of a shaky protocol
16:24 asciilifeform davout: speaking in general of all even vaguely pgp-like compatibles
16:24 asciilifeform all stuck with sha1 4evah
16:25 asciilifeform there's no provision for changing the fp algo.
16:25 davout point is, if done properly fingerprints, when done properly, are a +ev proposition
16:25 asciilifeform i disagree
16:25 asciilifeform lemme dig out the thread
16:25 davout few days ago amirite
16:25 asciilifeform year+
16:26 davout ok, not same one then, plox to link
16:26 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-15#1698400 << most recent one
16:26 a111 Logged on 2017-08-15 22:24 asciilifeform: likewise we had the fingerprint thread
16:27 asciilifeform ( has links to earliers )
16:27 davout ok lol, will read
16:27 davout ty
16:27 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590895 + http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-09#1640824 for completeness.
16:27 a111 Logged on 2016-12-27 05:27 asciilifeform: the only sane 'fingerprint' is the entire modulus+exponent.
16:27 a111 Logged on 2017-04-09 14:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, the more i think about it the more i'm convinced the ONLY "fingerprint" for rsa key may be... the modulus. 4096 bits and fuck you, if you can't take 32 chars you don't belong here.
16:33 mircea_popescu 512 chars as the case may be, but anyway.
16:33 asciilifeform moar if people get to pick own exponent
16:34 davout 512 bytes, will be 1024 chars
16:35 davout + exponent as asciilifeform points out, which iirc is to be 'large' as well
16:35 asciilifeform 1024 byte all.
16:35 davout so 2048 hex chars
16:35 davout i do get the points about hashes being voodoo black boxes, but otoh 2048 hex chars is hardly practical
16:36 asciilifeform entirely practical.
16:36 asciilifeform get used to doing ~the actual thing~ instead of 'convenient' simulacra.
16:36 asciilifeform this echoes the ffa 'omfg slow' discussions.
16:37 davout furthermore, i disagree with http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590896 in that the hash function doesn't have to be a "single" hash function, let user specify, or even put multiple fingerprints
16:37 a111 Logged on 2016-12-27 05:28 asciilifeform: anything else puts a megatonne of weight on one single hash, a titanic reward for finding one single solitary collision, hashes (which are voodoo, in all variants, see friday's thread) are not built to withstand this kind of pressure.
16:37 asciilifeform yes indeed the Actual Thing costs moar than the plastic doll.
16:37 asciilifeform davout: it has to be a fixed in advance hash function.
16:37 asciilifeform and it doesn't matter what you make it out of.
16:38 asciilifeform hashes are voodoo, there is not a hash of demonstrable strength for the same reason there is not block cipher of same ( they are different sides of same medal, we had thread with elementary proof )
16:38 davout "my cunthash256 is abcd", what's wrong with that
16:38 trinque what's this practicality argument? the paste is longer?
16:38 asciilifeform davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1590896
16:38 a111 Logged on 2016-12-27 05:28 asciilifeform: anything else puts a megatonne of weight on one single hash, a titanic reward for finding one single solitary collision, hashes (which are voodoo, in all variants, see friday's thread) are not built to withstand this kind of pressure.
16:39 davout spotting small differences in a 2048 blurb subjectively sounds impractical to me
16:39 asciilifeform diff exists.
16:39 asciilifeform what spotting.
16:39 asciilifeform and you're welcome to hash on own end, 'in harem'. just don't refer to my key as its hash, it is unseemly
16:39 asciilifeform how you keep straight the contents of own household, is none of my business
16:39 asciilifeform but outside , my key is my key. not a hash.
16:41 davout how do you picture a key exchange, from a practical pov?
16:41 asciilifeform observe the mendacious idiocy of koch's signature code, where if sha1 hash collision is found , can forge sigs ~regardless of what sig algo hashing was set to~
16:42 asciilifeform davout: 1) in person 2) via secure channel from people who you already know, who know $person.
16:44 lobbes asciilifeform> afaik we dun use 'key servers' for anything no moar << at least for this exercise, I was using it for quick verification of what my exported pub looked liek imported on something that was not on my local machine.
16:44 lobbes But otherwise, even I can agree: no real use for key servers as-a-thing. And, as I've found out, expiration-as-a-thing idem
16:44 ben_vulpes and then send a few messages to your counterparty and get confirmation that they decrypt, and ask for the same
16:44 trinque I yet await the tale of the man who used the expiration field to his benefit.
16:44 ben_vulpes via mail, email, irc, paste
16:45 ben_vulpes shortwave!
16:45 ben_vulpes even the mail! gotta keep the lizards on their toes.
16:46 ben_vulpes and if it's not important enough to push a valid key through the cracks of the sybil wall, i guess it wasn't actually important enough.
16:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform there's no need to include the exponent. if ppl don't know what exponent to use for a certain modulus, let them find out.
↖
16:46 ben_vulpes (or, "be less poor")
16:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform unless the fucking fp can fit in irc, we're stuck building gossipd before using this "Actual thing"
16:47 mircea_popescu trinque the argument is that check this out :
16:47 mircea_popescu !!key trinque
16:47 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/FC66C0C5D98C42A1D4A98B6B42F9985AFAB953C4.asc
16:47 mircea_popescu what happens if FC66C0C5D98C42A1D4A98B6B42F9985AFAB953C4 is longer than a chat line ?
16:48 mircea_popescu yes, obviously we would use deflation, say baseblabla to fix this up to a point.
16:48 mircea_popescu but if you come up with the idea that "you know what, alf can have whatever kilometric hash and in my deedbot implementation ima use the first 100 chars and that's that" im not gonna bitch.
16:49 mircea_popescu which reduces to "there ARE practical limits to labels for things ; and they are unrelated to the sizes of the things, i expect the WORD for ant, dick, car and aeroplane to all fit the ~5.6 characters rule as universally enforced in alphabet"
16:50 trinque right, I could as well use nick for that, since it's a non-colliding namespace for those
16:50 mircea_popescu sure. but more generally, the names of things respect the rules of grammar, not the rules of mechanics.
16:52 mircea_popescu on which topic, i suppose also related http://trilema.com/2015/and-then-she-went-splat-on-the-asphalt/#selection-413.0-413.67
16:59 trinque bahaha
16:59 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1734480 << how are they to find out ? by same argument you could as easily say 'post first half of modulus, let'em look for other half'
16:59 a111 Logged on 2017-11-08 21:46 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's no need to include the exponent. if ppl don't know what exponent to use for a certain modulus, let them find out.
17:00 asciilifeform pub exponent isn't a function of modulus, it's an independent variable
17:00 asciilifeform change pubexp ? you get a different pubkey
17:00 mircea_popescu you are confusing the label with the contents.
17:01 mircea_popescu modulus completely identifies a key.
↖
17:01 asciilifeform nope
17:01 mircea_popescu this complete identification may not include automatically the irc name, or the exponent, or the user's dog's picture
17:01 asciilifeform review the algo.
17:01 mircea_popescu nevertheless, there's no doubt as to which key is in discussion.
17:01 mircea_popescu asciilifeform what, we're going to share Ns now ?
17:02 asciilifeform not deliberately, lol. but if you don't know my e , you can't encrypt to me.
17:02 mircea_popescu so i can't.
17:02 asciilifeform just same as if you did not know the n.
17:02 asciilifeform so they are both rightfully part of a pubkey.
17:02 mircea_popescu but a third party asked for N knows WHAT key is being discussed. which is the point of labeling keys.
17:02 asciilifeform the historic cheat was to standardize the e. which imho was retarded.
17:02 mircea_popescu make an effort and distinguish betwen the thing and the thing's name.
17:02 asciilifeform enemy can offer a diddled key with your n but his e, that he can decrypt encrypts to.
17:02 asciilifeform names are not involved.
17:03 mircea_popescu yes, koch fps are ineptly chosen names. yes there's value in having a biunivocal name-item relation by default.
17:03 mircea_popescu NO, this doesn't explode to where everey possible PROPERTY of the item is now also going to be detailed in the name.
17:03 asciilifeform re fps yes. re 'e is part of a pubkey' - it is.
17:03 asciilifeform not knowing the e has exactly same effect as not knowing half of the n.
↖
17:03 mircea_popescu whether e is or is not part of pubkey was not at any point discussed by anyone other than yourself ;
17:04 mircea_popescu much like whether fps are or are not useful wasn't discussed by anyone but yourself. the original problem was that gpg unreliably reported "key doesn't expire" to lobbes , when in fact it did expire.
17:04 asciilifeform it is relevant to the screaming wrongness of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1734499 statement.
17:04 a111 Logged on 2017-11-08 22:01 mircea_popescu: modulus completely identifies a key.
17:04 asciilifeform it does no such thing .
17:04 mircea_popescu it does.
17:04 mircea_popescu there can be no doubt as to which key is being referenced if the reference consists of modulus.
17:05 mircea_popescu that this reference is not functional, which is to say does not substitute for the thing it references, is a trivially true and entirely spurious observation.
17:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu's key with altered pubexp is a valid key, and not mechanically distinguishable from the original's in the absence of sigs.
17:06 mircea_popescu so trinque gets a notification that hey, you got the wrong ITEM stored under reference X.
17:06 hanbot mircea_popescu> i am (i guess?) proud to say that ro pron party included womenz to my knowledge. wtf is the point without, they jack off on the zacusci ? << issat a typo or is a jacuzzi fulla zacusca a thing?!
17:06 mircea_popescu this isn't something to be bruteforced through protocol. people can keep cabbage in pots labeled sugar all they want.
17:06 asciilifeform with this argument you could justify arbitrarily breakable fp, say.
17:06 mircea_popescu hanbot approximate russian plural.
17:06 asciilifeform 'can always find right key'
17:07 mircea_popescu asciilifeform we are currentrly using arbitrarily breakable fp.
17:07 mircea_popescu the detriment has yet to materialize.
17:07 asciilifeform has yet to materialize to naked eye.
17:07 mircea_popescu let's redo this exercise
17:07 mircea_popescu !!key asciilifeform
17:07 asciilifeform are we building a thousand year reich or not, lol
17:07 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/17215D118B7239507FAFED98B98228A001ABFFC7.asc
17:07 mircea_popescu if the above read, like ben_vulpes 's paste, five letters in base64, we'd be none the poorer.
17:07 asciilifeform 20-50k usd gets you another 17215D118B7239507FAFED98B98228A001ABFFC7-sha1 but diff modulus.
17:08 mircea_popescu so ?
17:08 asciilifeform that nobody saw it fit yet to do this in front of asciilifeform's face, is neither here nor there
17:08 asciilifeform you build bridge for 500 tanks, not for the wheelbarrows crossing river to date.
17:09 mircea_popescu $0 usd gets you a "boat" in the sense you contemplated back at http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-21#1672940
17:09 a111 Logged on 2017-06-21 14:33 mircea_popescu can buy used cars. CARS. because i bought and own hundreds. i can't buy fucking used boats, and i doubt you can (or would, or do for that matter) buy used cars.
17:09 mircea_popescu but somehow commerce hasn't come at astandstill by the fact that you can call a folded sheet of paper as well as a 100`000 ton transport item "boat"
17:10 trinque asciilifeform: what'd change in deedbot's key repository if somebody collided your key fp ?
17:10 asciilifeform the historic 'it wasn't visible broken in my face' can justify any kind of shitcrypto, the use of winblowz, whatever customary syphilis . i ain't buying.
17:10 mircea_popescu the four letter, base 26 hash works remarkably well.
17:10 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you're evidently buying, seeing how, let's do it the third time...
17:10 mircea_popescu !!key asciilifeform
17:10 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/17215D118B7239507FAFED98B98228A001ABFFC7.asc
17:10 mircea_popescu i woder what has to happen for it to stick.
17:11 trinque I'll go change to to encode the FP as repititions of the string "cocks" to signify
17:11 asciilifeform after bath (ffa) is built, i have 0 intention of continuing to rub against tree trunk to clean.
17:11 mircea_popescu so what does this practically do ?
17:11 asciilifeform dun matter for how long it was state of the art in my chukchistan.
17:11 * mircea_popescu was rather toying with the idea of standarizing ben_vulpes 's identifier thing across teh republic.
17:11 asciilifeform discussion is re permanent design for sane crypto.
17:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: why not take to logical conclusion : 1 bit : 1 == mircea_popescu , 0 == everybdy else, lol
17:12 mircea_popescu them 04YcZ or w/es are working splendidly well
17:12 asciilifeform the ham radio people still have iirc what, 5 letter names
17:12 asciilifeform ( they die faster than born , so no shortages )
17:13 BingoBoingo The cool ones four, at some point six+
17:13 asciilifeform however they don't use hashes, so no collisions
17:13 mircea_popescu the fact that we're still using a what was it, 400 char line protocol has some bearing on what we call things.
17:13 mircea_popescu i'm not even sure i want gossipd lines to be longer than irc.
17:13 trinque all deedbot is offering up is an identifier within its own namespace for the - yes - full key
17:13 mircea_popescu imo it's a schelling point found at considerable expense and of significant value
17:13 asciilifeform as i see it it's an arbitrary turd.
17:13 mircea_popescu i had nfi you object to names as a matter of principle.
17:14 asciilifeform mircea_popescu balked at 'unfragging udp is 512byte' but for some reason doesn't barf at irc
17:14 asciilifeform crypto sigs are to be unambiguous. is the entire point of'em.
17:14 asciilifeform like knife exists solely to cut.
17:14 mircea_popescu how do you even put up with "asciilifeform" in the first place ? shouldn't it be stanisalvborninodessaandflownbyparentsacrossseaatcostofsellingitemsfromhouseandalsodoesntlikewashingtondcandhasagirlandahouseblablabla ?
17:14 asciilifeform you can't sign with either.
17:14 asciilifeform the pubkey is the man. per mircea_popescu's own theory and practice.
17:15 mircea_popescu what's signing got to do with the discussion ?
17:15 asciilifeform because it is about pubkey ?
17:15 mircea_popescu not afaik ?
17:15 asciilifeform what then, instead, about fram, ursul polar ?
17:16 mircea_popescu well, at first it was about lobbes warning people not to rely on the "control dials" as provided by koch-gpg, for being unreliable ; then you wanted to talk about fps and then at some point and without warning anyone apparently pivoted to talking about pubkeys and signatures.
17:16 asciilifeform it's about asciilifeform reviewing for davout why http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-09#1640824 was on point
17:16 a111 Logged on 2017-04-09 14:45 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, the more i think about it the more i'm convinced the ONLY "fingerprint" for rsa key may be... the modulus. 4096 bits and fuck you, if you can't take 32 chars you don't belong here.
17:16 mircea_popescu aha.
17:17 mircea_popescu as i said, making the modulus be the name has its advantages.
17:17 asciilifeform above however was written prior to discarding 'let's all 4evah use 65537'
17:17 mircea_popescu but this dun include es, pictures, nicks, other comments. it includes N.
17:17 mircea_popescu we don't agree on how that changes anything.
17:17 mircea_popescu besides, some keys still use 3 or 17 or w/e.
17:17 asciilifeform because e is a free variable ?
17:17 mircea_popescu e always was a free variable.
17:20 mircea_popescu in any case. there's no requirement that you be able to use the word "car" to go shopping in it ; and similarily there's no requirement that you be able to use a key's fingerprint to sign, or check signatures with it. the intention of the fingerprint is to permit you to reference a specific key unambiguously to a third party, such as when asking for it.
17:20 asciilifeform if e is free variable ( vs. '65537 4evah 4all' ) then having n is having half a pubkey.
17:21 mircea_popescu well, and having "asciilifeform" or "17215D118B7239507FAFED98B98228A001ABFFC7" is having no portion of the pubkey.
17:21 asciilifeform the use of a hash ( i.e. item guaranteed not to be 1:1 mapping ) to 'reference unambiguously' to something, is a fractionalreserveism.
17:21 mircea_popescu they're just words denoting a certain pubkey.
17:21 mircea_popescu that's unrelated to this conversation. N is not a hash, it's the modulus.
17:22 asciilifeform does mircea_popescu know a proof that i cannot choose an alternate e that will result in a pubkey that 1) verifies some or all of the existing signatures made with his genuine e + 2) verifies another, which he did not produce ?
17:23 mircea_popescu i'm sorry ?
17:23 * asciilifeform finds that the l0gz do not currently contain a full description of rsa
17:23 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1704268 << seems entirely related. asciilifeform says no names because can't derive name from the math.
↖
17:23 a111 Logged on 2017-08-28 23:10 mircea_popescu: kanzure " Obviously there is no possiblity of meaning outside of a structure of authority, and the authority can not be predicated on the meaning."
17:23 mircea_popescu what's this "genuine e". rsa is based on p,q,N not on e's.
17:23 asciilifeform let's take interlude to review ?
17:23 mircea_popescu aite ?
17:24 asciilifeform 1) we plug in the FG. p, q are primes. n = pq.
17:24 mircea_popescu trinque well yes but the illiterate approach (which is what this is) rapidly devolves into orcdom.
17:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform go on.
17:24 asciilifeform 2) phi = (p-1)(q-1)
17:25 asciilifeform 3) choose e, 1 < e < phi , where gcd(e, phi) == 1
17:25 asciilifeform 4) compute seekrit d, 1 < d < phi, where e*d === 1 mod phi
17:25 asciilifeform ( can also write , d == e^-1 mod phi )
17:26 asciilifeform output is pub/priv pair; pub is tuble (n,e) , priv is (d, p, q) .
17:26 mircea_popescu right.
17:26 asciilifeform for completeness, let's also note the rsa op :
17:26 asciilifeform c = m^e mod n
17:27 asciilifeform m = c^d mod n
17:27 asciilifeform ( same exact op, but different colourings depending on whether encrypting or decrypting )
17:27 asciilifeform this omits all mention of paddings etc.
17:27 asciilifeform anyone see any typo ?
17:27 mircea_popescu so what's the problem ?
17:27 asciilifeform *tuple
17:29 asciilifeform what happens if you change e to e', e' != e ?
17:31 mircea_popescu whoever wants to decrypt will either know it or not decrypt.
17:31 mircea_popescu or verify sigs, whatever, same op.
17:31 * mircea_popescu shall bbl.
17:32 asciilifeform mircea_popescu may well be right incidentally, re the impossibility of somebody lying about the e in a key, doing any damage . but i cannot yet prove.
17:32 asciilifeform that's what bothers me, that i can't yet prove.
17:34 davout sounds to me as the same fundamental problem re hashes
17:34 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1734603 << names are cosmetic. q is re 'what is a complete pubkey'
17:34 a111 Logged on 2017-11-08 22:23 trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1704268 << seems entirely related. asciilifeform says no names because can't derive name from the math.
17:34 asciilifeform ( if tomorrow asciilifeform signs a message 'call me pile_of_cement nao plox' everyone will laugh, but his v-sigs will still stand )
17:34 trinque no, it wasn't.
17:34 trinque everyone present knows what constitutes a full pubkey
17:34 asciilifeform trinque: i apparently don't
17:35 trinque topic was what to use to reference one, if any
17:35 davout unambiguously
17:37 asciilifeform if tomorrow i sign a message with my key ' asciilifeform fleanode nick was compromised 2ks ago, ignore what the idjit said' -- also stands. names are clothing.
17:37 asciilifeform mechanically linked 'this fp IS the key' item, however, is more insiduous.
17:37 asciilifeform *insidious
17:37 asciilifeform it's a fundamental untruth. because somewhere in phase space, waiting to be found, is 1 ( or 2, or 9000 ) collisions.
17:38 trinque dare I go again?
17:38 asciilifeform the 2 aren't in any way similar.
17:38 trinque what happens to the interactions with deedbot if a collision occurs?
17:38 asciilifeform nuffin, because it doesn't use signatures.
17:38 asciilifeform v-on-gpg however is fucked.
17:38 trinque pretty sure all that was at question was convention for naming keys
17:39 asciilifeform incidentally , if trinque at any point imports the collision-key, it will overwrite the old, silently
↖
17:39 asciilifeform ( unsurprising koch mechanics )
17:40 asciilifeform ditto if faux-asciilifeform sends trinque a pgpgram, 'my new key is...' -- it will verify.
17:40 trinque yep. and so the thing will never do so. anytime someone lets his key expire I've grunted through the item with pgpdump
17:40 trinque *the new item
17:40 asciilifeform hats off to trinque , if he manually inspects moduli.
17:41 * asciilifeform does, whenever fielding new gpgtronic box
17:44 asciilifeform meanwhile, in heathendom, 'parody horizon' -- https://archive.is/cQItH >> 'Facebook tests fighting revenge porn by asking users to file nude photos first'
17:44 trinque looool
17:44 shinohai kek
17:45 asciilifeform betcha it will be unhappened before day is done
17:45 asciilifeform 'never happened, hoax, move along.'
~ 23 minutes ~
18:09 * mircea_popescu has made "varza calita" however you call it, cabbage carmelized with bacon, with CAYENNE paprika. holy shit this is a good idea, had to come to new world to discover.
18:10 mircea_popescu asciilifeform anyway, n without e is not a complete pubkey, hence the e,N,comment standard. nevertheless, N is a sufficient index of the e,N,comment line that properly constitutes a pubkey.
18:10 asciilifeform returning to the exponent thing, seems that mircea_popescu is right, nothing particularly interesting can be done by distributing a pub with e' . ( other than 'believe me , his e is 3' and then messages ~to that pub~ are breakable if padding is broken. but that' sit . )
↖
18:10 mircea_popescu and the fact that BOTH e and comment are arbitrary is not concerning.
18:10 asciilifeform ( it won't affect existing sigs by trooo key , etc )
18:12 asciilifeform and it's sufficient index until, i suppose , 5000 yrs pass and there are two old sages, each called himself mircea_popescu and each used modulus N, each left great body of alchemical works, but they had different, see, pub-e's.... lel
18:12 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1734650 << this is very much a koch-gpg problem in the vein of "lobbes warning people not to rely on the "control dials" as provided by koch-gpg, for being unreliable" and probably the most important example thereof.
18:12 a111 Logged on 2017-11-08 22:39 asciilifeform: incidentally , if trinque at any point imports the collision-key, it will overwrite the old, silently
18:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is a compromised key by definition, two people have the pq
18:13 asciilifeform hm.
18:13 asciilifeform afaik this is so.
18:13 mircea_popescu properly speaking, the two sages are the one sage.
18:15 asciilifeform i dun currently see any crack in this big enough for my crowbar.
18:15 mircea_popescu now to the saddest part of this all, whereby N being 512 bytes long, we can't actually fit them in irc lines.
18:15 asciilifeform i must say even sadder noose, i dun have an rsatron that fits in irc line either...
18:15 asciilifeform i even have a phriend whose postage addr barely fits in one...
18:15 mircea_popescu i suppose necessarily we'll reference them by eg bpaste ids, thereby going right back to the hash.
18:16 asciilifeform can reference by anything convenient. so long as not entertaining the seductive but very dangerous notion that the reference ~is~ the item.
18:17 mircea_popescu right. doing something like "fp is http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ququq/?raw=true" instead of "fp is FC66C0C5D98C42A1D4A98B6B42F9985AFAB953C4" has the advantage that the ad-hoc, by time of request hash does not purport any sort of relation with the contents.
18:17 mircea_popescu this is a right thing here.
18:18 mircea_popescu there's a lot of wisdom we ended up baking into teh whole paste thing.
18:18 asciilifeform iirc we had a similar thread re tx-id.
18:18 mircea_popescu which was that ?
18:18 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-05#1637598 << possibly here
18:18 a111 Logged on 2017-04-05 13:31 asciilifeform: thing is, there is NO sane (i.e. o(1)) way to index without demanding unique global txid.
18:19 mircea_popescu it's a recurrent topic.
18:19 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes how is it implemented btw ? not something directly breakable like "hash the microtime, put through base64 and truncate" is it ?
18:20 davout "how dja generate key paste URL?" "just SHA1 the key" :D
18:20 mircea_popescu lol
18:20 davout problem?
18:21 mircea_popescu ideally the url is not breakable*. (*limits apply)
18:21 davout breakable in what sense?
18:22 mircea_popescu in the sense that third party can predict (by eliminating some as impossible) future urls in whatever manner.
18:23 mircea_popescu ie "today is the 5th so all paste urls will sum to 05ff" or "this item is long therefore the paste will have more caps than small letters" etc
18:24 davout it's not immediately clear to me what this would enable
18:24 asciilifeform ideally the paste magick comes from s := get-string-from-FG followed by see-if-unexpired-paste-with-s-exists
18:24 asciilifeform ( if latter is true : make new one )
18:25 mircea_popescu davout not much ; asciilifeform well we don't yet have fg-capable isps.
18:25 asciilifeform we do as soon as asciilifeform parks a box !
18:26 asciilifeform but description is general , re 'how to make non-predictable gensym'
18:26 asciilifeform ( it can't be a function of the payload, or of the clock )
18:26 mircea_popescu and the problem is also general, nobody can apply our correct solutions.
18:26 asciilifeform can at least avoid applying the obviously deadly , incorrect one.
18:27 asciilifeform here's a possible idea : why not use mircea_popescu's poker .
18:28 asciilifeform ( when submitting url, can throw in optional value that gets xor'd with the server-generated . )
18:28 mircea_popescu over http ?
18:28 asciilifeform aha?
18:28 davout BYO entropy, can't possibly hurt
18:29 mircea_popescu lol
18:29 asciilifeform this was in old thread, re provably-fair pokerators , mircea_popescu shared the algo.
18:29 mircea_popescu i'm aware, but it works better there than here.
18:29 mircea_popescu poker is login site, bpaste isn't.
18:30 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1709684 <<
18:30 a111 Logged on 2017-09-02 00:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform seed is a combo of site-produced TRNG entropy and player-set (with defaults if playher doesn't feel like setting). you can change your portion at any time.
18:31 asciilifeform http POST takes >1 param, neh
18:31 asciilifeform e.g. payload=foo&turd=bar
18:32 mircea_popescu in other utter lulz : "La foule est son domaine, comme l'air est celui de l'oiseau, comme l'eau celui du poisson. Sa passion et sa profession, c'est d'épouser la foule. Pour le parfait flâneur, pour l'observateur passionné, c'est une immense jouissance que d'élire domicile dans le nombre, dans l'ondoyant, dans le mouvement, dans le fugitif et l'infini. Être hors de chez soi, et pourtant se sentir partout chez soi ; v
18:32 mircea_popescu oir le monde, être au centre du monde et rester caché au monde, tels sont quelques-uns des moindres plaisirs de ces esprits indépendants, passionnés, impartiaux, que la langue ne peut que maladroitement définir. L'observateur est un prince qui jouit partout de son incognito."
18:32 mircea_popescu who invented the redditard ? charles baudelaire described it cca 1863.
↖
18:32 shinohai lmao
18:33 mircea_popescu feeding the self the impression of being in the center of the world while at the same time remaining invisible to the world.
18:33 mircea_popescu this is what "anonimity" is hoped to provide to the online tard of 2010s.
18:34 asciilifeform d'épouser la foule << ugh
18:34 mircea_popescu oya.
18:34 mircea_popescu baudelaire is well deranged.
18:35 asciilifeform is this after opium caught on , or wat
18:35 asciilifeform or can we blame syphilis
18:35 mircea_popescu before opium caught on there was a brain there upon which opium will have caught on later on.
18:36 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-18#1726198
18:36 a111 Logged on 2017-10-18 17:10 mircea_popescu: stopping smoking doesn't reduce cancer, because the sort of shameful shitsacks that GET cancer will get it, whether from smoking or not. if not from smoking -- they'll find a different stressor.
18:36 davout http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-08#1734720 <<< bwhaha sainte merde
18:36 a111 Logged on 2017-11-08 23:32 mircea_popescu: who invented the redditard ? charles baudelaire described it cca 1863.
18:36 asciilifeform dunno that this carries universally -- could just easily say 'caesar should have grown his chitinous plate on his chest, so as not to be stabbed'
18:36 mircea_popescu indeed.
18:37 mircea_popescu lorica segmentata. it's a thing.
18:37 asciilifeform but re opium specifically mircea_popescu's idea is almost certainly troo : opium isn't actually fun for ~most people
18:37 asciilifeform ( nearly everybody at one time went to dentist, or whatever surgeon, got opiated . how many want to take it up ? )
18:38 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551908 << thread
18:38 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 19:15 asciilifeform: one of the interesting recurring motifs in dalrymple (british dude who worked for decades as prison doctor) re addicts is that they are not 'could be just anybody'
18:49 asciilifeform ( re physical handling of pubkeys : another possibly interesting old asciilifeform crackpottery : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-01#1664335 )
18:49 a111 Logged on 2017-06-01 18:03 asciilifeform: if you make a ~two~-diode reader, you can make it ignore 'unstraight' (from its pov) bars. and this opens you up to a method :
18:50 asciilifeform ( tldr : 13125 bytes on 2sided business card , after luby )
18:51 mircea_popescu asciilifeform is basically a cognitive arsonist.
18:51 asciilifeform lol!
18:52 mircea_popescu his greatest pleasure is to burn down some thing in this way.
18:53 asciilifeform but from ashes, we get magical bird, which then... or was that in another tale.
18:53 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: several java-"random" selections from a list of characters
18:54 ben_vulpes the thing predates my membership in thumbsdownforclojureclub
18:54 asciilifeform lol i thought ben_vulpes wrote clojure proggies for a living
18:54 asciilifeform ( or he does ? but 'with disgust' ? )
18:54 ben_vulpes cl and legacy pyshits mostly
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18:54 asciilifeform aa
18:55 ben_vulpes i'd rather write java than clojure
18:55 ben_vulpes compiler for the former is at least useful, goes beyond 'meh adequate'
18:58 ben_vulpes resisting the temptation to shit up the logs with clojure hate over here
18:58 BingoBoingo !~later tell shinohai http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/8fdt3/?raw=true
18:58 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
18:59 BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: I thought that was 2013-2014's logs. Just link some classics.
19:00 * ben_vulpes digs briefly through logs, finds only old sads
19:03 shinohai BingoBoingo: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/CGRtO/?raw=true
19:04 BingoBoingo tyvm
19:04 shinohai !~ty
19:04 jhvh1 You are very welcome Daddy
19:05 BingoBoingo Old meme is best meme
19:08 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: the two-diode crackpottery is definitely a favorite of mine
19:11 asciilifeform incidentally, quick experiment gives http://www.loper-os.org/pub/512_letter_a.png
↖
19:11 asciilifeform which reads just fine with my ancient 'blaster gun'
19:11 asciilifeform right off the lcd.
19:12 asciilifeform ( 4096bits )
19:13 asciilifeform or hm, the iso std says otherwise, it's 1 .. 4296 alphanumerics, but only max 2953 8bit bytes per iso-compliant qr.
19:13 asciilifeform so, eh, you'll need 2 of'em.
19:14 asciilifeform ( for standard qrtrons )
19:15 asciilifeform oh hm nm
19:16 asciilifeform 2953 ~bytes~
19:16 asciilifeform moar than enough for 4096b (512byte) modulus, same size exponent, and massive chunk of errorcode.
19:18 asciilifeform ( say, 1024byte (n,e) ; then 512byte signature , of a message, e.g., 'please call me pile_of_cement' )
19:20 BingoBoingo !~later tell mircea_popescu http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/7iLaV/?raw=true
19:20 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
19:20 BingoBoingo pile_of_cement: Do you have any luggage recommendations for rackmount boxes?
19:21 asciilifeform lol
19:21 asciilifeform look in music 'dj' catalogue, they make cases
19:21 asciilifeform but i prefer the crate the machine shipped in
19:21 asciilifeform is generally good packing.
19:23 BingoBoingo Does airline treat this as a bag or a something else
19:23 asciilifeform if you put it in a bag -- bag.
19:23 asciilifeform if not -- freight
19:24 BingoBoingo And if wrapped in nylon and strapped together in 70 lb units, still bags?
19:24 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo qntra would work fine as a vps off your vps machine im sure.
↖
19:25 asciilifeform afaik if you make it externally baglike (i.e. with handle) and it fits in mass/dimensions given by carrier -- they'll carry it
19:25 davout y u no freight?
19:25 asciilifeform presumably -- miser
19:26 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Cool. Mega opteron VPS box it is.
19:26 asciilifeform you also running opterons, BingoBoingo ?
19:26 BingoBoingo davout: Freight happens later as "household", that way duty free.
19:27 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Pricing boxes.
19:27 asciilifeform what's the duty on an ancient comp anyway
19:27 davout you'd need to actually move yourself for that to be an option, no?
19:27 BingoBoingo davout: That is plan
19:27 * asciilifeform recalls rolling crate of pogos, for c3, and paying 0 because nobody wanted to try to compute duty
19:28 davout aok, hence the .br residence permit talks
19:28 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Depends on what I call the computer. Uruguay however has actual charts.
19:32 BingoBoingo davout: And hence not Brazil parallel search becoming very attractive. Brazil is slow. Anyways the reason BingoBoingo has been condensing physical plant is that there are many compelling anti-reasons to operate ISP in US.
19:34 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
19:34 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 7419.67, vol: 24758.34621988 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 7380.0, vol: 97961.33501621 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 7426.5, vol: 6258.26612398 | Volume-weighted last average: 7389.8712454
19:37 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: there is not such a thing as a sane fiatolistan. but otoh it is difficult to do worse than usa.
19:40 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-09#1734789 << for that matter would work even better on a 'pcengines' or other small machine with GB nic + ssd .
19:40 a111 Logged on 2017-11-09 00:24 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo qntra would work fine as a vps off your vps machine im sure.
19:40 asciilifeform ( even, say, a pogo )
19:40 asciilifeform how much does the workingset weigh, BingoBoingo ?
19:40 asciilifeform ( is it even over 100 MB ? )
19:41 ben_vulpes in other news, vancouver washington elected a dead man to city council
19:41 BingoBoingo Prolly not going that small. Qntra may get own box E350 or similar AMD
19:41 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: More than that less than 1 GB. Document dumps and pictures, etc
19:43 asciilifeform pretty compact.
19:43 BingoBoingo Yes, but DB intensive.
19:44 asciilifeform fits in ram, and prolly will for foreseeable future.
19:44 asciilifeform so not really i/o-bound
19:45 * BingoBoingo will likely leave 1/2" drive socket kit behind
19:45 asciilifeform aaa ~that~ is what BingoBoingo meant by 'condense physicals'
19:46 asciilifeform asciilifeform likewise will have a rail car's worth of goodies to liquidate
↖
19:46 asciilifeform anybody want 1958 'britannica' ? 60 yrs of 'sci am' ? co2 laser ? lol
19:46 BingoBoingo You're leaving the LASER!
19:46 asciilifeform didja think it could come ?!
19:47 asciilifeform any idea what the thing weighs
19:47 asciilifeform or how breakable.
19:47 BingoBoingo No idea at all
19:47 asciilifeform sorta like a ming vase in a steel coffin ( sized for a 5 y.o. )
19:47 BingoBoingo ah
19:47 asciilifeform plus compressor, exhaust pump, water chiller.
19:47 ben_vulpes a 58 britannica?!
19:48 asciilifeform aha
19:48 asciilifeform with indices.
19:48 ben_vulpes glorious
19:48 asciilifeform and buncha else.
19:48 ben_vulpes we had a shit 90s
19:48 asciilifeform the lispm is finally gone tho.
19:48 BingoBoingo !~later tell pete_dushenski http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-09#1734821 << You want in on the alf firesale?
↖
19:48 a111 Logged on 2017-11-09 00:46 asciilifeform: asciilifeform likewise will have a rail car's worth of goodies to liquidate
19:48 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
19:48 asciilifeform 2 dec alphas remain, plus a megatonne of other yet-uncatalogued .
19:49 BingoBoingo <ben_vulpes> we had a shit 90s << My fambly poor. Grew up with bullshit Funk & Wagnalls
19:49 asciilifeform other notable junk includes.... cnc milling machine ( asciilifeform-built controller , brand-new steppers )
19:50 asciilifeform and i think this completes the list of items somebody in l1 might actually want.
19:52 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-14#1655937 thread
19:52 a111 Logged on 2017-05-14 17:29 asciilifeform: asciilifeform had a 1958 'britannica', made in usa, that he fished out of a dumpster as a boy. it was superb, as far as encyclopaedia goes, about on par with famous большая советская энциклопедия . but today it lives packed in a crate.
19:53 asciilifeform i suppose i oughta also mention 2 21-inch trinitrons, one of which -- brand-new, ~1hr of runtime.
19:55 asciilifeform buncha other various ( laser printers, photo equip, etc ) also , but really belongs at junkyard
19:58 asciilifeform at any rate, l1 folx firmly stuck in usa ( who... ben_vulpes ? mod6 ? ) invited to inquire re particulars.
19:59 asciilifeform kudos to phf for finding a fella who needed a lispm.
20:00 * asciilifeform bbl, meat
~ 22 minutes ~
20:22 mircea_popescu asciilifeform maybe run a giveaway on your blog.
20:25 mircea_popescu alternatively, simply buy them passage in a container. though that more reasonable when going to kekistans, i guess
20:30 asciilifeform i dun have any desire to give away to non-l1
20:30 asciilifeform may as well sell for fiatola, or leave for the vultures.
20:30 asciilifeform i'ma make a container, but prolly not 2 and defo not 3
20:31 asciilifeform most of my earthly goodz dun merit the cost.
20:33 asciilifeform ( ftr it ain't as if asciilifeform had a thing to move into yet. but may as well get all of the parallelizable balls rolling. )
20:39 ben_vulpes congrats on the new project
20:40 ben_vulpes i'm currently reevaluating my own exit timeline; project tinyhuman did not go particularly well this time through
20:48 asciilifeform failed checksum ?
20:53 ben_vulpes in broad strokes, yeah
20:56 asciilifeform if it ain't a seekrit, to where does ben_vulpes want to move ?
20:59 ben_vulpes somewhere i can launch autonomous subs under cover of learning to surf
21:00 ben_vulpes bits of rural costa rica look nice, was briefly looking at chile before i realized i'd probably end up at the same miserable latitude
21:00 asciilifeform same as where
21:01 ben_vulpes ~portland area. 45
21:01 asciilifeform not same microclimate
21:01 asciilifeform recall argentinistan
21:01 ben_vulpes this is possible! but i would muchly like to trade number of hours in longest summer day for...more summer days.
21:02 asciilifeform or for that matter , timis is same parallel as odessa but warmer, because in a 'kettle'
21:02 ben_vulpes arstan had thicker rain than portland, but i heard that it was not the soul-killing constant grey fog.
21:02 asciilifeform ( figs did not grow in o )
21:04 ben_vulpes oh also chilean ocean is fucking cold, forgot that criteria
21:05 asciilifeform your subs need warm ?!
21:05 ben_vulpes i've lived near cold bodies of water my whole life, have no insulation, and i would like to get in warm water on a whim
21:06 asciilifeform it's called bathtub, lel
21:06 asciilifeform i dun think i ever saw warm water outdoors.
21:06 ben_vulpes asciilifeform must have mondo bathtub with wavegenerator
21:07 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: where i'm from there's a layer of maybe 6 inches of warm water in the summer
21:07 ben_vulpes i hear this layer is deeper elsewhere
21:08 asciilifeform prolly yer path lies to the tropics, then, to mircea_popescu landia.
21:08 ben_vulpes you don't say
21:09 asciilifeform either that, or grow yer skin fat, like the finns
21:09 ben_vulpes !!reputation whaack
21:09 deedbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Pu6KK/?raw=true
21:09 asciilifeform then all water will seem warm.
21:15 ben_vulpes you know i have objected to skinny dipping more and more of late on the grounds that i will get cold and grumpy within five minutes so why don't you just strip and get in and i'll make a fire up here and catcall
21:16 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes coastal cr is hot and humid though.
21:16 mircea_popescu mountain cr kicks ass but obviously no subs there
21:16 mircea_popescu then again whole country can be walked across.
21:17 ben_vulpes i mean i'll drive a bit
21:17 ben_vulpes great excuse to buy mega truck in saturated american market of mildly depreciated truck
21:17 mircea_popescu personally went across the whole thing in a day. quite doable. especially if going at night. locals are pretty nuts with the timings, crowd within the same hours, are apparently petrified of driving at night
21:18 asciilifeform oblig mountain sub >> http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-21#1329005
21:18 a111 Logged on 2015-11-21 05:29 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-11-2015#1328928 << 'Подводная лодка В степях Украины Погибла в неравном Воздушном бою!' (tm) (r)
21:18 mircea_popescu then again understandable, very inept drivers.
21:18 trinque girl and I are looking seriously at singapore
↖
21:18 * mircea_popescu is curious how that goes.
21:18 trinque but I also have an accountant with thai wife, citizenship
21:19 trinque guy might be able to help there
21:19 mircea_popescu nice.
21:19 mircea_popescu thai seems to be favoured destination
21:19 asciilifeform lotta ru folx in thailandistan
21:20 mircea_popescu other than that, cr oceans are indeed warm.
21:20 asciilifeform if you have stomach for life in 'rice kingdoms', it is mega-destination.
21:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform by that logic costa rica is oil-fried flour-kingdom.
21:21 asciilifeform see china thread. white man phood scarce in we-dun-lactase land.
21:22 asciilifeform relatively.
21:24 * asciilifeform not yet been in person there, cannot speak to the practical acuteness of said problem.
21:25 asciilifeform but i'd be genuinely surprised to learn that there are, say, multitude of quality icecream vendors, in thailand.
21:25 mircea_popescu why ?
21:26 asciilifeform asians ? lactose-indigesting folx ?
21:27 trinque diameter of accountant suggests he's finding something to get fat on over there
21:27 asciilifeform that's doable anywhere.
21:27 ben_vulpes lol diameter of accountant
21:29 asciilifeform iirc thailand bans all land ownership by noncitizens. but this is prolly finessable mircea_popescutronically.
21:29 asciilifeform have you been there yet, ben_vulpes ?
21:30 asciilifeform or trinque
21:30 trinque haven't, but it's on the list
21:30 ben_vulpes nah not i
21:30 asciilifeform will be interesting to read .
21:30 ben_vulpes dunno why land ownership is such an important
21:30 trinque as far as land ownership, not too sure how much I want to marry a piece of real estate anyway.
21:31 asciilifeform you don't lease the chair you sit in, neh
21:32 asciilifeform but not 'married' it either
21:33 ben_vulpes chair not really burdened with pretentions of asset classhood
21:33 asciilifeform neither is a toyota's worth of orcland
21:34 asciilifeform but granted 'tco' optimization is a very personal thing
21:35 ben_vulpes lol mhm, just this month i had the gutters cleaned, various blinds replaced, wiring performed and all at zero cost to self
21:36 * ben_vulpes would rather make terrible noises on the guitar than gentoo fucking houses
21:36 asciilifeform unlikely to get this level of service from orc landlord, unless you're mircea_popescu
↖
21:37 asciilifeform ( and even him i seem to recall cursing the air conditioner people in b-a )
21:38 ben_vulpes pay commensurately less, get commensurately less.
21:38 asciilifeform and imho a house you haven't usefully 'gentooed' is merely... a hotel. may as well live in actual hotel
21:39 asciilifeform orc landlord aint building optic cablimg,
↖
21:39 asciilifeform antennae, cemented safes, etc.
21:39 ben_vulpes orc landlord also ain't gonna object to actual improvements.
21:39 trinque it's the kind of work that stays behind, too
21:40 asciilifeform no moar then my current one objects, lol
21:40 ben_vulpes fwiw this house came complete with cat5 in every room
21:40 asciilifeform but he gets to eat'em.
21:40 trinque oughta do it somewhere you can see yourself staying, or do without. or so the logic goes
↖
21:40 trinque my ancestors chose the states rashly in the 40s, look where that got them
21:41 asciilifeform where would you rather they had gone in 40s , lol
↖
21:42 asciilifeform instead of the only industrial empire not wrecked by the war.
21:43 trinque went from wealthy italian folks doing italian things to more or less "people of walmart" in 2 generations. lack of options doesn't excuse that.
21:44 asciilifeform not so much doing-of-italianthings happening back in okd italy any moar, neh
21:44 asciilifeform *old
21:45 trinque still, came to america, the air dissolved their wot, wot died
21:45 asciilifeform how did 'air dissolvd their wot' ? plenty of italians famiusly preserved their wot in usa
21:46 trinque for how long?
21:46 asciilifeform or you mean in present day.
21:46 trinque they had a great time in prohibition; where are they now?
21:46 trinque tell you where, shitty real estate in florida with hair on their backs
21:46 trinque owning franchises and shit
21:47 asciilifeform i can think of worse things to be in usa
21:48 asciilifeform e.g. owning 0
21:48 asciilifeform and in the swamp.
21:49 ben_vulpes salarymen and art critics
21:49 asciilifeform 'there's plenty of room at the bottom' (tm)(r)(feynman)
21:56 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-09#1734932 << landlady at one place bought me proper showerheads on her own initiative during her own trip to teh civilised world.
21:56 a111 Logged on 2017-11-09 02:36 asciilifeform: unlikely to get this level of service from orc landlord, unless you're mircea_popescu
21:56 mircea_popescu i say tis all in teh relationships. otherwise, ownership is illusory.
21:56 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-09#1734936 << you'd be surprised.
21:56 a111 Logged on 2017-11-09 02:39 asciilifeform: orc landlord aint building optic cablimg,
21:56 asciilifeform revisiting upstack, the other side of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-09#1734943 medal -- asciilifeform's ancestors, had fruit trees. but asciilifeform does not get to have fruit trees, and it makes him slightly sadder.
21:56 a111 Logged on 2017-11-09 02:40 trinque: oughta do it somewhere you can see yourself staying, or do without. or so the logic goes
21:57 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-09#1734945 << not terrible choice in the 40s, the damage roosevelt was doing was neither obvious nor its staying power clear.
21:57 a111 Logged on 2017-11-09 02:41 asciilifeform: where would you rather they had gone in 40s , lol
22:05 asciilifeform 40s usa was afaik by very long shot the best looking horse in the glue factory.
~ 22 minutes ~
22:28 BingoBoingo <ben_vulpes> bits of rural costa rica look nice, was briefly looking at chile before i realized i'd probably end up at the same miserable latitude << The problem with Chile is poor internet transit capacity.
22:30 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> neither is a toyota's worth of orcland << Toyota's worth of orland in Thailand will lack any centrality
~ 1 hours 17 minutes ~
23:47 mircea_popescu aaand in other "united states government what ? who are these schmucks nobody heard of ?" https://www.sec.gov/litigation/investreport/34-81207.pdf
23:53 asciilifeform 'The Commission has determined not to pursue an enforcement action in this matter based on the conduct and activities known to the Commission at this time' << lol!
23:54 mircea_popescu in other lulz, the lulzy tim swanson has a blog, on which he uses trilema notes, and derps insistently. i'm taking a bet nobody ever heard of it.
23:54 asciilifeform whossat
23:55 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2014-08-12#792148
23:55 a111 Logged on 2014-08-12 02:19 TimSwanson: Because that's how normal debates work
23:55 mircea_popescu rando aspie.
23:56 asciilifeform snoar
23:57 * asciilifeform back to bed
23:57 mircea_popescu nn
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