#trilema | 2017-06-27

Logged on 2017-06-27 03:28 mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2017/06/supreme-court-lifts-lesser-court-injunctions-against-trump-travel-bans/ << i take it asciilifeform had no comment ? :D

00:11

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674906 << ht is not a legitimate concept, like, e.g., pipelining, but instead an ill-conceived attempt to speed up 'winblows as it existed at the time'

00:11

Logged on 2017-06-27 03:53 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674511 <<< sadly this question is not unlike asking "has multiplication ever actually worked".

00:12

it does 0 to well-written code -- other than slow down, and -- behold -- sometimes breaks semantics entirely

00:16

code that is built with awareness of the pipeline ~cannot~ leave any room for ht to have any useful effect - elementarily

00:19

( for n00bs : 'hyperthreading' attemps to marshal 'resources unused by the current instruction' - say, the ALU during a memory fetch - into becoming, through sleight of hand, 'a cpu core' that is , while said resources are available, behaving as a cpu, executing instructions )

00:24

http://www.contravex.com/2017/06/26/racing-for-a-cure-6-edmonton/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Racing for a Cure 6 – Edmonton

00:29

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674592 << moreover, these are data containers, non reflective non recursive what's the similarity in tyhe fgirst6 place

00:29

Logged on 2017-06-26 17:29 asciilifeform: if 'full builds are infeasible', your tree is mis-structured.

00:32

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674605 << possibly one of the least visible pillars of tmsr for newcomers, because in world of socialist liquid shit everything is "mutable" ie liquid shit, and not accidentally. but because the only way socialism may masquerade as "sensible" is through rendering the past meaningless.

00:32

Logged on 2017-06-26 17:31 asciilifeform: no changing-of-the-past.

00:35

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674631 << "flash crash" lulz. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-22#1673315

00:35

Logged on 2017-06-26 18:05 shinohai: Dat nearly 20% drop of ETH in 24 hrs >.>

00:35

Logged on 2017-06-22 07:44 mircea_popescu: to satisfy http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-20#1672531 -- try and fuck with btc price, discover eth "price" was a joke all along.

00:37

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674638 <<< it's a good thing that the successful introduction of ipv6 rendered such considerations mute.

00:37

Logged on 2017-06-26 20:07 asciilifeform: from earlier, lulz, 'In April 2017, an unexpected and disruptive change was made to the MIT network: the sale of historically MIT-allocated IP address ranges to external entities such as Amazon. The sale wasn't announced to the MIT community until after it had taken effect. '

00:38

also amazon is only supporting python 3 with orcisms ; and other lulz.

00:39

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674641 << awww.

00:39

Logged on 2017-06-26 20:17 shinohai: http://archive.is/I9uUu #rekt

00:42

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674651 << while phf is right, nobody lasts forever, and linus is getting old.

00:42

Logged on 2017-06-26 23:02 phf: nah, that's your monthly occurrence.

00:42

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-25#1674323 << aha

00:42

Logged on 2017-06-25 17:01 mp-en-managua: apparently fucktards learned nothing of the doge slaughter, still believe "promotion" matters.

00:45

and in other disbeliefs, i can't imagine anyone'd fucking read that plaintive undisciplined-female-whining mailing list ffs. what the everloving fuck.

00:45

shit show

00:46

coding without v and without #t. how do they do it, i have nfi.

00:47

*

mircea_popescu lolzd at the whole shoe problem, because nicaragua has a healthy contingent of dumb white whores who went there to suck native cock and "get in touch with teh earth" paddling around barefoot in the streets and "learning" the "fascinating" how to twist a necklage together "antique traditional skills" sandy invented last decade.

00:47

but hey, at least they get buggered sore like a hobo's whore. that + gallo pinto > what they got at home.

00:48

heheheh

00:53

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674687 << this is very much so, and very much why both a) http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-17#1671529 and b) there not being an auto-signatron or decryptatron or so forth deployed anywhere in teh vast expanses of la serenissima.

00:53

Logged on 2017-06-27 00:57 asciilifeform: sina: one of the things gossipd needs is a constant-time-constant-space rsa. if you don't have one, enemy can derive your privkeys remotely based on timing.

00:53

Logged on 2017-06-17 18:07 mircea_popescu: doth not entertain me

00:56

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674709 << it's not clear to me what he means by session ; might be some internal-only thing (eg, lifetime of particular sig) which isn't breaking.

00:56

Logged on 2017-06-27 01:02 asciilifeform: for one thing, there IS NO SESSION in gossipd (either my concept or either of mircea_popescu's two essays)

00:59

http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1DD542B4BEF18F141C7B6941F77348DB7B711C2E59FD22B9BCF8389711074965 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1462...2939 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.24.157.30 (ssh-rsa key from 212.24.157.30 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (exchange.piccollo.cz. CZ)

00:59

http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1DD542B4BEF18F141C7B6941F77348DB7B711C2E59FD22B9BCF8389711074965 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1762...0867 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.24.157.30 (ssh-rsa key from 212.24.157.30 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (exchange.piccollo.cz. CZ)

01:07

<asciilifeform> more of a case of finely evolved nose. we can smell it at nearly ppb. << Worst part of smoking cessation is having a sense of smell again. Still not sure it's worth it.

01:08

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674940 << excepting the special case of the bots

01:08

Logged on 2017-06-27 04:53 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674687 << this is very much so, and very much why both a) http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-17#1671529 and b) there not being an auto-signatron or decryptatron or so forth deployed anywhere in teh vast expanses of la serenissima.

01:09

well, obv this is at teh ops option. but i'd have imagined that not excepting.

01:09

very trivial to make fixed time upping after all.

01:10

!!up hair_soup

01:10

hair_soup voiced for 30 minutes.

01:11

hair_soup

shenanigans!

01:11

aaand who might you be

01:11

hair_soup

oh, ben_vulpes

01:12

a ok

01:12

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674891 << i've been using that one for a while, with a https://www.amazon.com/CST2545-L-Trac-Wired-Performance-Trackball/dp/B00EEFK5QQ trackball in the middle. i'm pretty happy with that setup. i've figured out how to get the firmware out of the controller, so i'm hoping to customize some of the keys (that are otherwise useless)

↖ ↖ ↖ ↖

01:12

Logged on 2017-06-27 03:24 mod6: concave job. 'kinesis advantage 2'

01:13

!!up kcud_dab

01:13

kcud_dab voiced for 30 minutes.

01:13

!!up renart

01:13

renart voiced for 30 minutes.

01:13

hair_soup

aaaand there it goes.

01:14

that was some uber lag

01:15

mircea_popescu: unless the bot is to stay down until the op awakes?

01:15

*

BingoBoingo has a simulated alf in head that complains Supreme Court review is too slow for Trumpreich to overturn all of the shitty lesser courts on everything

01:15

ben_vulpes !!up and then !!v +5 mins ?

01:15

phf: nice, let me know if you get there. i'd like to re-map some of 'em too.

01:17

mircea_popescu: i mean to say in the case that the op is asleep when the bot goes offline, it'll stay that way until the op awakes

01:18

and i mean to say that if the bot always verifies after a fixed time there's... fixed time.

01:19

and must be an auto-decryptulator?

01:19

not necessarily, but how'd you know.

01:21

ah

01:24

!!up candi_lustt

01:24

candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.

01:24

deedbot: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/V2jvD/?raw=true

01:24

lol

01:24

*

ben_vulpes rolls eyes

01:24

ben_vulpes she should prolly move to control seq

01:25

aye

01:25

gonna need two while we're at it

01:25

lemme check where we're at

01:25

oh ffs now bots.contravex.com redirects to http://www.contravex.com/trilema-and-eulora-bots-directory/

01:25

ben_vulpes !W as lobbes got !Q

01:27

may i have R as well?

01:27

i see that http://trilema.com/2016/trilema-bot-spec/ -> http://www.contravex.com/trilema-bots-directory/

01:27

not sure if that helps.

01:28

ben_vulpes for the same bot ?

01:28

mod6: yeah, i bitched about that a day or so ago; now i have stale dns

01:28

mircea_popescu: nono

01:28

then yes.

01:28

ben_vulpes: ah, aight.

01:29

mircea_popescu: ty

01:29

pete_dushenski << add !W for candi_lustt and !R for mimisbrunnr

01:29

or was it the other way round

01:29

a nod's as good as a wink to a blind man

01:30

she's a sport ? ? ???

01:30

does she? does she?

01:31

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674737 << this is the fundamental problem here. if we're not really using encryption then we're not really using encryption.

01:31

Logged on 2017-06-27 01:11 asciilifeform: and if i can break 1, can break any and all.

01:31

there's a difference between encryption and obfuscation.

01:35

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674765 << well, without crypto and without gossip. but then again the latter not meaningfully possible without former anyway.

01:35

Logged on 2017-06-27 01:28 asciilifeform: irc is exactly 'gossipd without crypto'.

01:40

heh

01:42

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674809 << it does work, but at glacial speeds unfit for messaging. eg, !!v won't spill out of minutes-long windows.

01:42

Logged on 2017-06-27 01:50 asciilifeform: arbitrary 'don't report the answer for T units of time' doesn't work, because you have no hard assurance of no spill.

01:44

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674829 << your correct answer there was to say you use FG as a clock. which'd have totally sunk him, "my time comes in MB entropy chunks, ha-HA!"

01:44

Logged on 2017-06-27 01:55 sina: fine, what if we assume two independent computers

01:45

AHA scintillatored FG clock

01:45

As opposed to sintered FG cock

01:54

mircea_popescu: done.

01:54

ty

01:55

ben_vulpes: shoot me a list of all the commands for your bots when you have a min.

01:55

prolly in a few days thay

01:56

all good

01:56

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674872 << sorry I used the wrong term there, I meant the operator. what I ended up with re that query is approximately what you've got there, except it's a two step process. 1. gossipc --add-peer --name sina --host <host> --port <port> which furnishes you a pubkey you can exchange with that peer (and they vice versa with you) and a seperate command to set the peer key

01:56

Logged on 2017-06-27 03:12 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674379 << introductions aren't intended to be handled by gossipd. the correct way to do this is for me to say "add 8A56264EAD0BC4BD9CD7AC0086B488AB sina" which is a legitimate pubkey of your gossipd, AND for you to go whatever re mine. then they can talk, change keys etc. not before./

01:56

alright then

01:56

also, yes, stale page ben_vulpes. url back to orig.

01:56

pete_dushenski: it'll grow over time, i'll letcha know

01:57

as they do. but if you could summarise what you have to date i can tableise them and post.

01:58

mhm

01:59

!~ticker --market all

01:59

BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2447.5, vol: 22759.91542862 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2460.999, vol: 9149.36296 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2428.1, vol: 37045.18114702 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2717.274662, vol: 13794.94400000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2436.86, vol: 10020.0253678 | Volume-weighted last average: 2480.05106835

02:00

Hmmm markets seemed to prefer mp as a jaguar spirit

02:01

the love of great inca is a nasty habit to kick

02:02

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-06/24/c_136391168.htm << autonomous lulz. perhaps of interest to ben_vulpes

02:02

har har har

02:02

wire autocannon into carbot

02:02

"Volvo Australia's technical manager David Pickett told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) on Saturday that his company has been trying to solve the issue for 18 months. He said the way a kangaroo moves completely bamboozles the system -- a problem they haven't had with other animals around the world."

02:03

inb4 "you call that an autocannon, THIS is an autocannon" and roos shoot back

02:04

spiders

02:04

tank girl!

02:09

So the solution is invasivitize roo's to the rest of the world to stop GoogAppAzon

02:17

!!up candi_lustt

02:17

candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.

02:18

!W (mpfhf:mpfhf #*10101010101010101010101010101010101010 8)

02:18

ben_vulpes: #*10111011

02:18

ben_vulpes: log: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/v1lEX/?raw=true

02:18

candi_lustt wanna sex ?

02:18

ben_vulpes can it be pushed into single line by appending the log bit ?

02:19

pete_dushenski: "candi_lustt evals everything after !W in an SBCL environment with full access to the underlying host."

02:19

"do not break it."

02:20

needs saying?!

02:21

possibly. who knows, manuals.

02:21

look either you return the hooker in working order or kill her and hide the body and make yourself scarce.

02:22

word.

02:23

!W (ret "there is an atmosphere of toxic masculinity brewing in this channel!")

02:23

mircea_popescu: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/NFMtc/?raw=true

02:23

aok then

02:27

!W 5

02:27

ben_vulpes: 5

02:29

!W cat niggers.txt

02:29

BingoBoingo: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/FshDZ/?raw=true

02:30

candi_lustt: das racis

02:33

omg is lisp repl not fucking bash shell!!

02:34

*

ben_vulpes cranks one-armed bandit again

02:34

!!up candi_lustt

02:34

candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.

02:34

!W (mpfhf:mpfhf #*10101010101010101010101010101010101010 8)

02:34

ben_vulpes: #*10111011 (more: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qCFXe/?raw=true)

02:35

of course i need a space before the closing paren

02:35

of course

02:35

!!up candi_lustt

02:35

candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.

02:35

!W (mpfhf:mpfhf #*10101010101010101010101010101010101010 8)

02:36

ben_vulpes: #*10111011 (more: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ZzSOG/?raw=true )

02:36

!W (values 1 2)

02:36

figures.

02:40

http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=99

02:49

should be good now

02:53

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674880 << home orifice is another quarter or 4 months away yet; and the republic calls even in the dead of night

02:53

Logged on 2017-06-27 03:21 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674422 << consider that the damage you already did to modern man's most important joint is permanent. do not add.

~ 2 hours 20 minutes ~

05:14

ok so I implemented some p2p encryption for the gossipd thingo

05:14

but each peer can see the msg plaintext of the messages for now

05:15

mircea_popescu: is it intention that there should be encryption from author to recipient as well?

~ 3 hours 53 minutes ~

09:08

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675077 << there's no intention that there would be plaintext anything, wtf.

09:08

Logged on 2017-06-27 09:15 sina: mircea_popescu: is it intention that there should be encryption from author to recipient as well?

09:22

mornin'

09:22

hey

09:22

:]

09:32

hehe https://github.com/infobyte/spoilerwall/blob/master/server-spoiler.py >> https://www.shodan.io/host/138.197.196.144

~ 1 hours 4 minutes ~

10:37

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674958 << lol, are those f-keys rubber?!

10:37

Logged on 2017-06-27 05:12 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674891 << i've been using that one for a while, with a https://www.amazon.com/CST2545-L-Trac-Wired-Performance-Trackball/dp/B00EEFK5QQ trackball in the middle. i'm pretty happy with that setup. i've figured out how to get the firmware out of the controller, so i'm hoping to customize some of the keys (that are otherwise useless)

10:39

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675006 << there are side-channels other than timing, and some -- readable from considerable distance

10:39

Logged on 2017-06-27 05:42 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674809 << it does work, but at glacial speeds unfit for messaging. eg, !!v won't spill out of minutes-long windows.

10:39

( e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-17#1671565 )

10:39

Logged on 2017-06-17 19:45 asciilifeform: hypothetically i could even do it ( supposing your rsatron is mains-powered ) by observing the imperceptible dimming of the room lights, from 5km away

10:39

against these, 'time boxing' does 0.

10:41

hypothetically -- even ping time might well have enough of a correlation to cpu load, that you can distinguish 'remanent of time cushion' from 'still rsa-ing' and eliminate the cushion.

10:41

*remnant

10:43

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675008 << this is actually more likely to sink you than simply using a very large time cushion would.

10:43

Logged on 2017-06-27 05:44 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674829 << your correct answer there was to say you use FG as a clock. which'd have totally sunk him, "my time comes in MB entropy chunks, ha-HA!"

10:44

( why -- i will leave as an exercise )

10:45

hater!

10:45

lel

10:46

lulzily, it was mircea_popescu who originally taught asciilifeform this fact

10:46

i fughet when, might be in old l0gz

10:47

republican humour, man. it's a thing.

10:49

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674946 >> 'B2B BABY ... Chcete se stát naším obchodním partnerem?'

10:49

Logged on 2017-06-27 04:59 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/1DD542B4BEF18F141C7B6941F77348DB7B711C2E59FD22B9BCF8389711074965 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1762...0867 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '212.24.157.30 (ssh-rsa key from 212.24.157.30 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (exchange.piccollo.cz. CZ)

10:51

in other hilarities, http://www.rubos.com

10:52

e.g. 'MH has been found on Intel motherboards around 2007 – 2008 in Russia. Intel Corporation has never announced that it had or has a hypervisor in BMC system management software. We did not get any comments from the corporation after we provided a copy of the paper.'

10:53

d00d posted it to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674934 list and of course banhammered as 'off topic'

10:53

Logged on 2017-06-27 04:45 mircea_popescu: and in other disbeliefs, i can't imagine anyone'd fucking read that plaintive undisciplined-female-whining mailing list ffs. what the everloving fuck.

10:53

heh

10:53

asciilifeform tell him to maybe consider qntraing it ?

10:53

i dun post no moar

10:54

banned as veteran spammer, after phuctor thread

10:54

and, are the swine worth the pearls.

10:54

hm. BingoBoingo see if dood wants to write a qntra post ? http://trilema.com/2015/on-how-the-factored-4096-rsa-keys-story-was-handled-and-what-it-means-to-you and all that.

10:55

asciilifeform the problem with that eval is that you don't know until after they aren't worth the pearls.

10:55

tru!!

10:56

which is why on occasion i strap into the bathyscaph and go

10:56

anyway, getting the "unhappened" to at least know there's a name for it can't hurty anything

10:56

well, not anything worth caring about at any rate

10:58

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674948 << which bot here does secret key ops ?

10:58

Logged on 2017-06-27 05:08 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674940 << excepting the special case of the bots

10:58

( enciphering a challenge is not a secretkeyop )

11:00

asciilifeform they respond to deedbot

11:02

afaik deedbot is currently the only thing auto-signing ( inside its tx-issuing trb )

11:03

that's bitcoin style

11:08

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674920 << i took a 300+km trip by train, on east coast of usa, not long ago, and it was quite a sight - carcasses of dead factories, ex-trainstations belonging to ex-towns, and other 'dead past' that 'unhappened', plain for naked eye to see

11:08

Logged on 2017-06-27 04:32 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674605 << possibly one of the least visible pillars of tmsr for newcomers, because in world of socialist liquid shit everything is "mutable" ie liquid shit, and not accidentally. but because the only way socialism may masquerade as "sensible" is through rendering the past meaningless.

11:15

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674902 << there is a handy post-su word, 'распил' ('sawing-apart') to describe the process

11:15

Logged on 2017-06-27 03:49 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674489 << sounds entirely like The Drepperization. which is very much the only american technology style left.

11:16

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675118 << isn't deciphering a challenge an instance of a secret key op?

11:16

Logged on 2017-06-27 14:58 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674948 << which bot here does secret key ops ?

11:16

basic idea - a vermin gets control of, e.g., factory, and processes it as a raw-material base - carefully organizes the disassembly and stealing of what-can-be-stolen, systematically, piece by piece, replacing with 'cheap prothesis' when possible to keep the budget dripping in for as long as practical

11:16

hence 'hey d00dz, why is mit email suddenly in 'cloud' ??!'

11:17

and the evaporating ip blocks, etc.

11:17

hey, as socialism runs out of the agar, reverts to capitalism

11:17

gotta take whatever's left out of the hands of the redditards.

11:17

and into the hands of other redditards, lol

11:17

nicaragua awaits them, by the way. very awoke place.\

11:18

asciilifeform whoever steals from the stupid man is a cut above the stupid man, whatever his foibles.

11:19

Framedragger: deciphering challenge happens on ~your~ end, not deedbot's

11:20

ah, that's what you meant, yeah ok

11:20

(true, of course)

11:20

yeah i guess that's a nice thing with deedbot, it doesn't need secret key for most of the stuff incl. challenges..

11:25

mircea_popescu: it isn't clear to me that, e.g., the mit theft, involved any guile or initiative -- is simply the idiot inheritors disassembling their father's house

11:25

maybe. it doesn't matter : items must increase their market circulation. wife of socialist -> whore ; factory of socialist -> scrap iron, etcetera.

11:26

money doesn't need anyone to understand what it's doing.

11:26

is raven on battlefield, eating eyes of a corpse, 'a cut above' the soldier?

11:26

it's alive, innit.

11:27

for him the hour also comes.

11:27

but -- dead soldier had some proteins locked up. they're getting unlocked.

11:28

that's the whole thing : my keeping some women out of circulation is a reflection of my power.

11:28

everything gets unlocked.

11:28

gotta first have that power.

11:28

asciilifeform eventually, sure.

11:28

but the whole point of life is that retention, temporary as it may be.

11:28

aha.

11:29

we had the membrane thread iirc.

11:29

right.

11:30

in other recent lulzies, http://archive.is/B3QXF >> 'KMail’s ‘Send Later’ caused PGP encrypted private emails to be sent in plain-text'

11:31

Run Moar UserFriendlies

11:31

'This vulnerability led KMail to not encrypt email messages scheduled to be sent with a delay, even when KMail gave every indication that the email contents would be encrypted using OpenPGP.

11:31

'

11:31

lmao

11:32

'sorry for your plaintext sekrets'

11:33

why the fuck does it even have access to key

11:33

'i dun wanna raise an' lower the reactor rods by hand!111 too much exercise' 'ugh the indicator told me they lowered and turns out not!11 help'

11:34

mircea_popescu: idjits have this fondness for 'automate and transparentize pgp' etc

11:35

right, so as to maximally expose it to the earlier matters discussed

11:48

Good morning tmsr

11:48

TIL Russia is in Europe: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cyber-attack-idUSKBN19I1TD

11:49

shinohai: nono, see, the ukrs are Officially Nao Europe

11:49

'Path Towards Europe' (tm)(r) etc

11:51

lolz

11:53

meanwhile also in the fishwrap, http://archive.is/t9BoT >> 'Reputed New York gangster released from prison at age 100' << '... in and out of prison for much of his adult life ... most recently incarcerated, at the age of 93 in 2010, for a racketeering conspiracy involving the shakedown of New York strip clubs.'

11:54

Read that the other day, *own son* ratted on him at one point. Omerta is ded.

11:55

you kidding ? everyone wanna talk! they're just happy if anyone's even giving the appearance of listening.

11:55

facebookerta.

11:58

meanwhile lulz in ru world : their version of 'silkroad' , but the local custom is to use burial in public places, rather than parcels via the post. so various folx go and... dig 'for treasure'

12:00

not even bad idea

12:00

iirc we discussed it here, as a theoretical.

12:00

yeah.

12:00

and of course ancient idea, 'dead drop'

12:01

course ustards are too useless to dig anything

12:01

This is also known thing in city where one gets texted a "drop point" that requires recipient to find geocache of sorts

12:01

shinohai: is how spies worked, for century+

12:01

to this day, give or take.

12:01

'leave the film cassette betweeen 15th and 16th brick in such-such wall' etc

12:02

But of course, was merely adopted by friendly neighborhood street-corner pharmaceutical representatives.

12:02

the interesting bit re ru is that the dope parcels buried are so small that the operators make ~0 attempt to interfere with 'treasure hunters' who paid 0

12:02

% of loss considered acceptable, 'priced in'

12:03

not what it is. dealer always gives out freebies to interested parties who can wait.

12:03

tits optional

12:03

reportedly, the 'emplacers' regularly get picked up by police and sentenced to 20y, but this, naturally, does 0, new ones -- appear when needed

12:05

also reportedly parks, benches, etc in various towns became a comical sight , where diggers rummage in the earth, like truffle pigs, looking for ???

12:06

would be funny if all that's left of white civilisation in a century or two is a collection of inexplicable nutty habits, such as ^

12:06

and no more.

12:06

pressing ctrl-c ctrl-v in succession, buttons printed on a wall. etc.

12:08

arguably there already.

12:11

re 'buried treasure', i'm somewhat surprised that this approach did not (afaik) catch on in usa

12:11

where there is plenty of good landscape for such

12:11

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675181

12:11

Logged on 2017-06-27 16:01 mircea_popescu: course ustards are too useless to dig anything

12:12

dunno that this is so -- i routinely see folx with 'minesweepers' in, e.g., parks, looking for ???

12:12

nobody bothers'em either

12:12

consumers, dude. they're willing to say some magic incantations / "use the juice", but they ain't fucking willing to not use the post office.

12:12

ask one. to the fried up mind of the ustarded consumer, "that'd be tantamount to synthesizing the item myself"

12:13

you know, cuz he's seen a 3d printer once, so totally.

12:13

again, plenty of 'honest cunning' among the us folx. but you won't read of it in the beobachter reddit, no.

12:13

the latter will, yes, dwell on toy choppers etc

12:14

well, the druggies happen to be === the redditards, so.

12:14

there's a reason silk road failed to attract as much business as a lemonade stand.

12:14

( re '3d print pistol', i strongly suspect that whole thing is a psyop, to distract from cheap and effective cnc milling )

12:14

cnc milling takes work.

12:15

it's always the same thing with these shitstains. http://btcbase.org/log/2014-02-16#509011

12:15

Logged on 2014-02-16 22:04 asciilifeform: son: 'whatdoyamean i gotta dip them'

12:15

in fact '3d print' takes an astonishing amount of work. extremely finicky process, takes much 'babysit'

12:16

somehow that dun count.

12:16

~sold~, yes, as '0 work'

12:16

i suppose it's not patriarchy-racist or w/e

12:19

the moar interesting, imho, aspect of the ru buriedtreasure thing is that ( again, thirdhandedly ) it is managed as a pure 'btc-in btc-out' operation

12:20

i.e. operator sits far, far away, and pays lieutenant to obtain 500g of $substance and bury. then 'packager' gets coordinates, and excavates, then reburies in aliquots of 1g

12:20

and takes photos, records coords of ea.

12:21

then purchasers get coords, pick up.

12:21

operator never sets foot within 3000km of all of this. just sends, receives coin.

12:22

as for how the wotronics are managed -- i have nfi

12:22

but considering that the apparent arrangement stands and falls wholly on wotronics -- i'd guess pretty well.

~ 38 minutes ~

13:00

yes, bitcoin renders "the state" obsolete.

13:02

mircea_popescu: it does seem to call into question your 'there is ~0 market for milligrams' thing

13:02

it does ?

13:03

and, in same piece, the 'meatless contraband is a reddit trendoid thing and will vanish soon' thing

13:03

seems like there is massive set of dope aficionados that wants milligram AND wants no-face-meeting

13:03

i think you're supplementing by imagination all sorts of corners. there's a cost to bury.

13:03

unless whole thing is disinfo.

13:04

for all i know -- whole thing is a fabrication

13:04

and if i'm going to go dig up rabbit, im not digging up a spoonfull, im digging up enough to fill freezer.

13:05

if the 'dead drop dope' thing is actually true as reported -- it is a 'britneyization', the dealer replaces 1 mircea_popescu with 10,001 milligramderps

13:05

reddit trendoid thing is "omg 3d printing GUNZ!!!" as well as "OMG USPS DRUGZZ!!!" etc

13:05

for -- presumably -- +ev

13:05

where is such thing reported, other than your own reading.

13:07

!~google нарко закладки

13:07

asciilifeform: Закладки наркотиков в подъезде: как бороться? – Вопрос: <https://question.d3.ru/zakladki-narkotikov-v-podezde-kak-borotsia-573875/>; Закладки в подъездах! - Pikabu: <http://pikabu.ru/story/zakladki_v_podezdakh_2710822>; [УЖАС] Наркоманы ищут закладку (наркотики) перед детьми в ...: (1 more message)

13:07

meanwhile irl, if you cut a brick of coke 3:1 and bury the resulting miligrams indisivuallty you will be digging a million ditches.

13:07

beauty is -- not YOU will dig

13:08

but 1,001 expendable idiots.

13:08

link to the "about 1mn ditches per brick" piece.

13:08

asciilifeform this part exists entirely in the fantasticly fertile imagination that also has them on boats.

13:08

possibly made of frozen sawdust.

13:10

again , whole thing could be ~fabrication. but not mine, but of ru prosecutors. https://archive.is/8Gzus << example from 2016.

13:11

but i see nothing inherently fantastic about the notion that 1,001 derps each of whom buys a ??? of unknown purity for 1,001% markup, could be +ev vs conventional 'brick' buyer.

13:11

the million ditches.,

13:12

even if such a dig takes less than one hour of derp's time and no transportation, the fact remains that 1mn hours of minimum wage are > 1mn $ even in russhitia ; wheas a brick of anything is < 100k.

13:13

spammers work > for < pay..

13:13

there's better things to do with an army of obedient dorks ready to die than this.

13:14

farming them out to ourdemocracy "ngo"s comes to mind.

~ 16 minutes ~

13:31

<mircea_popescu> hm. BingoBoingo see if dood wants to write a qntra post ? http://trilema.com/2015/on-how-the-factored-4096-rsa-keys-story-was-handled-and-what-it-means-to-you and all that. << Which dude where?

13:31

the one that got bannered

13:32

*

BingoBoingo tried detangling logthread to figure out who got banned from what

~ 18 minutes ~

13:50

mircea_popescu: according to the $sources, they dun dig 'ditch', but very low-effort and laughably shallow holes, with, e.g., duct tape 'flag' sticking out; underneath park benches; etc

13:50

still gotta get there.

13:50

'there' turns out to be in public places, and both 'hiders' and 'seekers' routinely caught

13:51

but somehow still appeals.

13:51

so more like a game of childhood than anything

13:51

parks, lobby of apt house, similar

13:52

when i first heard of the practice, i also assumed 'in the forest, like gru agents' etc. -- but turns out, no, in park benches, rubbish bins.

13:53

whole thing imho interesting ~solely from the perspective of '1mn hours of labour, yes, but unpaid'

13:53

like spam.

13:54

the ample idle hours of homo redditicus ~will~ be harvested

13:54

one way or another. 'uber', dope treasure, whichever.

13:57

the other interesting aspect of '1,001 idjits vs 1 brick buyer' is that the former are somewhat accustomed to ~not finding anything~ in the indicated coords

13:57

and so '1 brick' is bezzlated into equiv of 1*K bricks, where K is a pos. constant

13:58

and separately from any dilutions of the customary kind (which are , presumably , also in play)

13:58

email sent

14:03

a nice. now lessee if anything happens huh.

14:03

<asciilifeform> dunno that this is so -- i routinely see folx with 'minesweepers' in, e.g., parks, looking for ??? << loose change

14:03

asciilifeform drugs are already bezzled to all hell

14:03

jew-elry etc

14:03

BingoBoingo: i can't picture the loose change thing being +ev

14:04

i thought you didn't think that mattered

14:04

i suppose there are nuts, for whom ~nothing matters

14:05

here's the thing : the per-hour value rummaging throughb park from finding drugz ~= from finding loose change.

14:05

i don't even fucking take coins.

14:05

incidentally it is in principle possible to make a ~cheap njd, that would fine moar valuable 'dropped item' in a day than a platoon of minesweepers

14:05

(e.g. lost pnojes, etc)

14:05

<asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: it does seem to call into question your 'there is ~0 market for milligrams' thing << milligrams isn't a market, its retail

14:05

mircea_popescu: it is quite astonishing that usg still bothers to mint coins

14:06

esp considering they doin't want them back

14:06

mircea_popescu: dope aficionados presumably dig 'for truffle' to ~eat~, rather than sell

14:06

when they run out of what to buy with

14:06

ie loose change.

14:06

anyway, it has a fine profile to reeducate idiots. "dig-find-love" or how did that "book"/"movement" go

14:07

mircea_popescu: your bananistan still mints coins also ?!

14:07

o ya.

14:07

nuts.

14:07

great coins here, too, total dubloons

14:07

of course the larger one is ~1 dollar

14:08

are they often met with ?

14:08

<mircea_popescu> meanwhile irl, if you cut a brick of coke 3:1 and bury the resulting miligrams indisivuallty you will be digging a million ditches. << 3000, who gets less than a gram of coke?

14:08

BingoBoingo he was on about mgs

14:08

AH

14:09

mircea_popescu: fwiw i have a very basic n00b level grasp of the constants in the equations - e.g. how much cocaine is eaten in a typical sitting, etc. so cannot comment usefully re grams

14:09

<asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: i can't picture the loose change thing being +ev << Well less ev if you get minesweeper at garage sale for 1/10th retail because initial purchaser realized -ev

14:09

typical sitting ? prolly a sugarbowl's worth

14:10

BingoBoingo: 'minesweeper' costs, what, 50bux new

14:10

like hammer.

14:10

not hightech.

14:10

nah, the better ones are hundreds

14:10

still not megacapital.

14:10

well now that all depends.

14:10

AHA and ~$5 to $10 at garage sale after original purchaser learns math

14:10

(i.e. less than typical ameritard's pnoje)

14:11

phone has functions!!!

14:13

anyway. cocaine is one of those items that don't produice leftovers. party will expand until all available consumed.

14:13

<asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: fwiw i have a very basic n00b level grasp of the constants in the equations - e.g. how much cocaine is eaten in a typical sitting, etc. so cannot comment usefully re grams << Typical cocaine use is gram after gram after gram after gram, I imagine mp or Tiger Woods level is sugar bowl or candy dish set out in advance

14:13

mircea_popescu: i have difficulty picturing the protagonists of $redditardmarket using 'at party'

14:13

~its only utility, really.

14:13

more plausibly they eat alone, while watching anime

14:13

going to parties, even

14:13

asciilifeform: They still use until consumed

14:14

asciilifeform that's more a ketamine thing.

14:14

Principal effect of cocaine intoxication is a desire for more cocaine

14:14

paging gabriel_laddel !!

14:14

BingoBoingo and nudity.

14:14

is there a gabriel_laddel in ze house

14:14

mircea_popescu: I thought that was more of a PCP thing

14:14

pcp goes mostly with the roids nuts afaik

14:14

~later tell btw gabriel_laddel you oughta have received the old comp by nao

14:15

!~later tell btw gabriel_laddel you oughta have received the old comp by nao

14:15

asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.

14:15

!~later tell btw Sup

14:15

BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.

14:18

in other non-noose, nobody yet bought orlol's ship

14:19

i wonder, how long these typically sit around and rust

14:19

( the photos suggest that there are possibly rustable parts in it )

14:20

Well, maybe it sucks?

14:20

also not long ago i was bored on a train and found myself reading the tech docs to the diesel in that thing ( apparently a very common model.) surprisingly ( to asciilifeform ) the 'water going into the tailpipe when motor not running' is still considered an open engineering problem...

14:21

BingoBoingo: by the paper specs it seems to be a steal for the price. possibly the problem mircea_popescu mentioned ('lemons') is the tru reason.

14:21

'lemon car' breaks down on interstate; 'lemon' ship -- 'to davy jones's locker'

14:21

Well, general with vehicles of any sort... At the point the price becomes a "steal" yes, ownership costs far more than price tag

14:24

at a certain price tag it'd be worth having just for lulz, and to ride within swimming range of land

14:24

... or possibly not, i have nfi what 'parking' costs for such a beast

14:25

speaking of which, i saw, i shit thee not, a child-sized motorcycle

14:26

entirely working thing, running on laptop (must be) battery, boy of ~8 was rocketing along on it..

14:26

i had nfi this existed.

14:26

not handcrafted thing, either, quite polished, likely - chinese

14:33

"dress your kids in plastic and train them on lipos"

14:33

fuckin idiots

14:34

asciilifeform: you've seen the gas powered 'minibikes' though, right?

14:37

not in boy size

14:37

and this thing did not at all resemble ordinary bicycle or 'moped' -- was miniature copy of 'kawasaki ninja' i think

14:38

at least kiddo was zooming, and had the opportunity to fall over

14:39

korean neighbor of mine was nervously pacing his kid in an electric 'lotus' knockoff last week

14:39

moving at no greater than 2 mph

14:39

oh god what's going to happen, he'll lose control and scramble out of the thing, falling all of six inches?

14:39

gimme a break

14:39

lol training for 'whale cart' as pictured in BingoBoingo's material

14:40

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675084 << apparently it's the wrong keyboard :o i used to use advantage back in the day, but now it's https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-for-mac/

14:40

Logged on 2017-06-27 14:37 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674958 << lol, are those f-keys rubber?!

14:42

i actually like advantage, but it encourages chording, which you hate. those rubber f-keys definitely don't help, but after a while that extra travel time to f-keys gets annoying anyway.

14:42

!#s arensito

14:42

3 results for "arensito", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=arensito

14:44

TomServo

hey asciilifeform they even got foot pedals!

14:44

who

14:44

kinesis ? i had theirs

14:44

TomServo

Oh.

14:44

imho sucked

14:44

cheapo rubbish

14:44

freestyle 2 lacks numpad, but has an extra two columns of keys on the right, sun style, which is unfortunately bound to a bunch of windows/mac functions (like cut/copy). i mostly figured out how to change what those keys send though..

14:45

i'd like to know where i can get a comp pedal that i can REST FUCKING FOOT on

14:45

rather than hover and give myself repetitivestress in joint that nobody even thought of doing it to previously

14:45

what kind of imbecile designs for 'hovering'.

14:46

phf: reminds me of sun's kbd

14:47

<asciilifeform> and this thing did not at all resemble ordinary bicycle or 'moped' -- was miniature copy of 'kawasaki ninja' i think << Pit bike. Where I grew up if my parents were cooler,tis likely a thing I could have played with

14:48

BingoBoingo: i dun think the battery existed then

14:48

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674678 << mine was written in cweb, i.e. the literate programming thing for c. i haven't finished it, but i got bogged on configuration management.

14:48

Logged on 2017-06-27 00:54 asciilifeform: phf has a very similar gossipd in commonlisp, for instance

14:48

aah

14:48

asciilifeform: Oh I thought we were talking awesome 2-strokes dirtbikes and pitbikes.

14:49

BingoBoingo: no, this was this tiny, ~silent thing, that still went at ~motorcycle speed

14:49

no 'vroom', no busybodies coming from miles around to see 'why is 8yo kid on a motorbike'

14:49

Well there in cooler days were loud things that went at motorcycle speed. Battery thing is for losers

14:50

BingoBoingo: for suburbia

14:50

in fact i think i'm going to rip out some of the messier linked lists etc. management parts and simply wire in shiva. obviously wouldn't want to use it in the field, but mostly as a thing in itself

14:51

phf: out of what didja make the rsa ?

14:51

oh it's the same design as sina, slinging openpgp "packets"

14:52

aah ok

14:53

of only interest, it's got a state machine that knows how to parse (and validate as far as allocation and "how big is it?") individual packets, byte by byte and collect them until passing them on to gnupg

14:53

ftr cweb is interesting

14:53

phf: i posted one of these for 'p' recently

14:53

it's the Right Thing.

14:54

http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/JPnpq/?raw=true << repost, for aficionados.

14:55

oh i missed that

14:55

<+a111> Logged on 2017-06-27 14:37 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674958 << lol, are those f-keys rubber?! << apparently the older versions were indeed rubber. they've since gotten rid of that, and are now plastic.

14:55

Logged on 2017-06-27 05:12 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674891 << i've been using that one for a while, with a https://www.amazon.com/CST2545-L-Trac-Wired-Performance-Trackball/dp/B00EEFK5QQ trackball in the middle. i'm pretty happy with that setup. i've figured out how to get the firmware out of the controller, so i'm hoping to customize some of the keys (that are otherwise useless)

14:55

they annoyme... but really all i use is the ESC key, which i've since replaced the windows key with a new normal esc key and remapped.

14:56

mod6: i like 'f' keys.

14:56

ascii friendly version of advantage would be "maltron"

14:56

use'em for, e.g., flipping buffers in emacs, etc

14:56

http://xahlee.info/kbd/i3/Maltron_keyboard-17420-s.jpg

14:56

phf: i saw maltron for first and last time in 1980s-era b00k on 'fun of computing' or sumthing

14:56

asciilifeform: ahh

14:56

phf: dunno whether they still made

14:57

mod6: 'midnight commander' also likes fkeys

14:57

yeah i wonder, i looked into it 10+ years ago, and punted at the $2000 or whatever price tag

14:57

hence why i consider a box without fat, easy-to-reach 'f's, ~unusable

14:57

2000 << lol!!

14:57

is custom machined to fit yer hands, of shitanium??

14:58

( if not -- why not?! for 2000 i can have own motherfucking kbd machined. out of steel. )

14:58

and at some point i might even do it.

14:58

http://www.maltron.com/store/p20/Maltron_L90_dual_hand_fully_ergonomic_%283D%29_keyboard_-_US_English.html apparently only $500

14:58

But will it be a very good keyboard?

14:58

BingoBoingo: the keys are the hard part, not the keyboard

14:58

( how to make buckling spring is not a secret )

14:59

has builtin trackball even, in the right place

14:59

looks like like in the b00k

14:59

pretty neat

14:59

i wonder what the switches are like

14:59

All sorts of botique business endavors are born thinking "Better materials!!!" are a panacea, then they build their product, and it turns out there are design considerations beyond material

14:59

the site seems to be silent re switches.

15:00

it's because their own design, "maltron switches". sometimes it's an option on those "mechanical keyboard" sites, so i wouldn't be surprised if the switches are good

15:00

http://www.maltron.com/cherry-mx-switches.html << looks like they use cherries nao

15:00

http://www.maltron.com/cherry-mx-switches.html

15:00

lol

15:01

*

asciilifeform not fond of cherry switch

15:01

they feel cheap, and they break.

15:01

and when they do you geeeetttttt thiiiiis

15:01

sadly they ( and taiwanese 'alps' clone ) are the ~only 'clickies' in new production afaik today.

15:02

the '50 million cycles' thing is a bold lie.

15:02

<+phf> has builtin trackball even, in the right place << this would be handy. mine doesn't have this. having to take my hands off the board gets annoying.

15:03

( or possibly a half-truth -- perhaps it really does go 50m cycles before ~open circuit~ failure. but 'bounce' begins looong before )

15:03

mod6: people have modded that advantage to have a trackball in the middle, with a variety of approaches. there's actually hollow space there

15:04

those maltron boards look nice. i didn't get one because it's nearly 2x as much as the kinesis.. and had no idea if i could even get used to the concave thing.

15:04

'Maltron keyboards are expensive by comparison and for many people represent a considerable investment. They are hand made from sheet materials which are formed and punched to make the shell or body of the keyboard. Cherry MX key switches are individually fitted by hand. The switch contacts are wired up into a scanning XY matrix by hand. In fact everything is done on an individual basis by hand. This does not result in a $5 product.

15:04

But is does result in a product that is reliable not just to start with, but in ten or more years time.' << sounds great, but hey folx, why not make buckling springs like normal people!111

15:04

phf: ah no shit huh?

15:05

i'd buy a several$k kbd if 0 plastic.

15:05

(and honest f-keys.)

15:05

ah, ya, you wanted metal one right?

15:05

stainless, ideally.

15:07

i've at some point went through a mechanical keyboard site and ordered 6 different boards with all the available switches from different manufacturers. while they look "retro", e.g. http://xahlee.info/kbd/i/modern_selectric_keycaps_50529.jpg they all universally felt cheap with light frame and unpleasant lateral travel

15:08

aha, i found 100% of post-1980s kbds to feel ~same, all like this.

15:09

yeah

15:09

currently i use one of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_F_keyboard#/media/File:Model_F_corrosion.jpg and it took eons to sand, deburr, paint, rf paint inside, ultrasonically clean the moving parts, reassembly takes ~day...

15:10

( you need carpenter's clamps )

15:10

there's several kg of steel in'ere

15:10

but keys -- still abs plastic.

15:10

yeah, i got two, i'm yet to do anything with them. (and yes, mine are steel and correct version etc.)

15:10

however it is worth noting that it accepts ibm 'm' keys, and so you can easily be rid of the martian terminal keys and replace with 'human'

15:12

i like the key mechanisms -- unlike 'ibm m', no membrane, no rubber anythings, no rivets.

15:12

spring buckles and conductive plastic 'foot' tips and moves just a little, changing the resonant freq of that row/column

15:15

yeah, i think we had a conversation about putting piano forte into the firmware. if you type it fff it'll automatically uppercase and add random !!! etc.

15:15

aha, theoretically quite possible.

15:16

i'd still like to resurrect the su-era gold standard, the magnetic reed switch kbd.

15:16

they were... eternal

15:20

my setup is so "modern" that i can't really worry about permanence

15:22

there of course is the -- quite valid -- mircea_popescu school of thought, 'furniture oughta be standard and expendable'

15:23

i have to say though, from ergonomic perspective i've realized a while ago that none of this particularly matters. it's all significantly offset by fitness regime or lack of

15:23

but given what % of time i spend in front of screen and touching kbd, the idea of using lusertronic rubbish has ~0 appeal

15:23

phf: now this -- tru!

15:24

https://starkcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/scan00211.jpg

15:24

and moreover, the mircea_popescutronic answer to 'rsi', is that one that i end up using: 'type less, fool'

15:27

yah

15:28

:p

15:33

in continuation of 'the best car -- is to already be at the destination' line of thought, 'the best keyboard is to simply not need to hit many keys'

~ 24 minutes ~

15:57

hmm, anyone wanna paypal 30bux for me ?

~ 41 minutes ~

16:39

https://archive.is/EHFoJ << in somewhat vintage cargocultisms.

16:39

pete_dushenski might enjoy ^

16:48

'Among the store’s roughly five thousand volumes were eight different books called “Talmud,” several of which listed Rabbi Tokayer as the author and included pictures of him inside their front covers. One version included “A Personal Message from the Author,” in English, in which Tokayer expressed his belief that “the Korean people and the Jewish people have so much in common, and share so many similar values.” '

16:48

didjaknow.

16:57

weird korean shit.

~ 24 minutes ~

17:21

!~later tell mod6 New makefiles test went smooth ... If you aren't head-banging over Ada I have question regarding Vim setup when you have time.

17:21

shinohai: The operation succeeded.

~ 26 minutes ~

17:48

So the first 3 results from the Google search "Roxanne Gay hamplanet" do not include the word hamplanet. Google Has either learned OR CENSORED RESULTS AGAIN!!!

~ 16 minutes ~

18:04

!~ticker --market all

18:04

BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2449.03, vol: 19229.41901269 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2403.893, vol: 7323.36006 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2402.0, vol: 33686.53303544 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2547.323739, vol: 14274.82870000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2436.806, vol: 9231.76895356 | Volume-weighted last average: 2441.57226253

~ 1 hours 9 minutes ~

19:14

lobbes

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675463 << in somewhat vintage cargocultisms. >> "Korean women want to know the secret. They found the secret in this book." << lol "You, too, can do 'it'!"

19:14

Logged on 2017-06-27 20:39 asciilifeform: https://archive.is/EHFoJ << in somewhat vintage cargocultisms.

19:15

lobbes

One of the oldest self-help b00ks, still kickin' to this day

19:15

Adding this smacktard to my "List of ppl that need to die" http://archive.is/Lz9f9

19:18

hi shinohai, glad to hear that the testing went well.

19:18

what's your question re vim

19:18

lobbes

"Many folks expect to have some way of viewing and using emojis" heh

19:19

If your sole contribution to computing is "adding fucking emojis" please die in a fire.

19:31

calling it: "serious linux desktop RCE discovered related to emojis" (memory mismanagement or related) (exact words in quote may differ)

19:31

*

Framedragger considers posting a bet re. this

19:42

it's indubitably there.

~ 35 minutes ~

20:18

btw maersk (some related ports) is down due to new "ransomware" (orange website says it's the same nsa "eternalblue" windows vuln)

20:18

not like they were needed anyway!

20:18

:p what, the shipping company? ha

20:18

just chinese crap anyway

20:19

healthy perspective to have, i guess

20:19

apple could buy china!

20:21

netflix interprets maersk as damaged and just routes around teh censor ships!

20:21

i got a whole silo fulla these btw, if you need.

20:23

i mean, scriba was supposed to have an mp emulator chatbot, so i'll keep it in mind :)

20:25

!$talk about "no such thing as too big"

20:25

=> "from which we surmise you never had sex"

20:25

lmao

~ 18 minutes ~

20:44

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675479 << #8======B~~~~~~~~ .

20:44

Logged on 2017-06-27 23:18 lobbes: "Many folks expect to have some way of viewing and using emojis" heh

20:45

in other, not wholly unrelated, lulz, '...out-of-bounds write in systemd-resolved in Ubuntu, which is possible to trigger with a specially crafted TCP payload. ... Certain sizes passed to dns_packet_new can cause it to allocate a buffer that's too small. A page-aligned number - sizeof(DnsPacket) + sizeof(iphdr) + sizeof(udphdr) will do this... A malicious DNS server can exploit this by responding with a specially crafted TCP payload

20:46

to trick systemd-resolved in to allocating a buffer that's too small, and subsequently write arbitrary data beyond the end of it.'

20:46

( 'CVE-2017-9445' )

20:46

heh.

20:47

"trick"

20:47

and, not wholly unrelatedly, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr0d2eRl2nE .

20:47

'song of msdos'.

20:50

'... И представил я: / Город наводнился вдруг разумными людьми: / Вышли все под DOS,...'

20:50

( https://lleo.me/pesni/text/dos.shtml << full text. )

20:51

by the author of, e.g., 'the random number merchant'

20:51

( http://lleo.me/arhive/2014/prodavec.htm )

21:03

http://lleo.me/arhive/humor/skazki.shtml << d00d's 'fairy tales'.

21:16

mornin tmsr

21:17

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675078 << my, I seem to have trouble phrasing my questions correctly :(

21:17

Logged on 2017-06-27 13:08 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1675077 << there's no intention that there would be plaintext anything, wtf.

21:17

mircea_popescu: patience appreciated while I attempt to rephrase question.

21:19

in current model, operator can write a message and claim it is from anyone and "publish" it to their own message store. when peers connect, the messages since last seen are delivered, each encrypted with a peer-pair unique RSA key. so as the message "progresses" between peers it gets encrypted, then decrypted and stored in each peers message store in plaintext

21:19

what I'm asking is, does that behaviour match the intent? OR

21:20

should the operator be encrypting the message for the final recipient and then publishing that ciphertext?

21:20

OR, both?

21:22

asciilifeform?

21:23

sina: how do the 2 models differ ?

21:23

sina: and what means 'final recipient' ?

21:23

intermediary peers won't be able to decrypt message in the latter model, asciilifeform

21:24

Framedragger: thanks, exactly what I meant

21:24

Framedragger: in mircea_popescu's gossipd algo, there are 2 types of messages, ordinary and private. the latter behave as described above

21:24

the former - as the 'stored, relayed'.

21:24

aha!

21:24

*

Framedragger recalls mircea_popescu's archaic use of "for" in context of gossipd

21:24

so the answer is "the program should allow for both behaviours"

21:24

?

21:25

sina: if you're asking re mircea_popescu's algo -- then yes

21:25

i thought this was pretty clear from the article.

21:25

asciilifeform: yesterday you mentioned 2 articles, but I had only seen one, if you recall URL can you link second one?

21:25

in fact i'd imagine that gossipd should ideally allow for arbitrary end to end encryption, would be up to operator?

21:26

Framedragger: all comms b/w any pair of nodes, properly rsa'd

21:26

no exceptions

21:26

*

Framedragger got confused from article, too (hence not opining re gossipd currently)

21:27

asciilifeform: sure, but (plz don't vomit from use of keyword) there should be a way to onion-rsa them, too (A encrypts to C's key, then encrypts to B's key and tells B to relay to C which is currently offline, or w/e)

21:27

1) original mircea_popescu's algo: http://trilema.com/2015/artifexd-a-better-ircd-rfc 2) the newer: http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document

21:27

imho

21:27

Framedragger: you get this 'for free' from the normal relay mechanism

21:27

if you think about it.

21:27

god it's like quoting talmud at this point :D (i mean the long comments etc)

21:28

right, eternal rsa gen process, rsa'd automatically, etc

21:28

asciilifeform: can you clarify, *all* comms? when I was implementing my first pass at encrypting comms yest, I found that at least the very first message when a peer connects as a client would be plaintext, i.e. "hi I'm A", otherwise the "server" would need to enumerate all its keys to find if it knows the peer?

21:28

sina: it enumerates.

21:28

ahh

21:28

and in fact goes through ALL OF THEM, to avoid leaking timing.

21:28

then is there a need for a challenge at all?

21:28

( this is not in mircea_popescu's article but is imho elementary. )

21:28

in fact that's a question i asked in comments, sina

21:29

answer is as asciilifeform said

21:29

just fyi

21:29

i even raised a (nonsensical) "but-t-t time complexiti!" concern re this

21:30

afaict gossipd model assumes that some rsa keys had been exchanged out-of-band. traditional challenge-response has been constantly critiqued by asciilifeform via "it's a DoS vector" argument (sorry if too curt, am in bed)

21:31

(which makes sense, hence lighthoused proposal)

21:31

in other mircea_popescuine treats, http://lleo.me/kamasutra/index.htm .

21:31

sina: (re. enumerate -- http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-121604)

21:31

and speaking of which i'ma bbl.

21:31

*

Framedragger too

21:32

ok thanks all

21:32

this will change my design a little bit

21:32

(ah in fact a bit up the stack, http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-121602)

21:38

asciilifeform: yest you said no sessions in gossipd, yet http://trilema.com/2015/artifexd-a-better-ircd-rfc/ clearly describes a session based proto

21:43

sina: to clarify (hopefully lol), that ^ is for all intents and purposes outdated. asciilifeform did say "original mp algo". that said, i'll agree if you say "you guys have a documentation problem omg"

21:43

(but then, the newer article clearly states "This is an up-to-date draft specification for gossipd", so i'm not too sure about that, either)

21:45

sina: fwiw (he can speak for himself but to save you time), asciilifeform does not like sessions [ever|anymore], and considers them ugly beasts which won't have a place in his gossipd bed

21:45

appreciated Framedragger

21:46

(i know it's a hella lot of comments under the newer article but iirc his "DoS magnet!!" points are addressed there)

21:49

I guess I'll wait for some clarification from mircea_popescu ? challenge/response is a session based concept even ignoring the older post

21:49

did you read the part about lighthouse based challenge, though?

21:50

"To craft a valid packet, a sender must collect a single auth string from the receiving node's lighthouse (via whatever means, can be a shortwave tuner), craft auth with it as described by Mircea Popescu earlier, encipher to receiver's RSA pubkey, and send." ?

21:50

that one?

21:50

tl;dr asciilifeform described a way for peer A to provide a challenge-response to peer B in a way which would not require any communication from B, hence not creating a DoS vector

21:51

yeah, though note that the lighthouse may for all intents be node C there

21:51

well, the next line is literally "This variant is not, incidentally, intrinsically incompatible with Mircea Popescu's - conceivably he might choose to hand out auth challenges to all-comers, while I operate lighthouse; while retaining the other basic mechanics."

21:51

hmm, right

21:52

note the important aspect which lighthouse introduces: constant stream of auth strings, "in all directions"

21:53

"in all directions" depends on medium. in radio, it's clear; in packet switched networks, could be a list of broadcast addresses to send auth strings to (constantly), etc

21:53

sorry if repeating what you already know

21:53

the point is that auth strings are sent regardless of whether the connecting peer (A) wants them

21:54

so there's no way to DoS peer B with "hi plox to send me an auth string, i'm totally legit non sybil node"

21:54

("well ok, let me generate this one just for you, and this for just for you", vs. "i'll generate this many auth strings per time unit, and distribute them to this set of destinations (or "shit them out via radio"))

21:55

so in that sense it's not your traditional challenge-response. again, sorry if repeating

21:55

no apologies necessary

21:56

Framedragger: can you bear with me for a few questions or were you going to bbl?

21:56

i may fall asleep but shoot

21:56

so we have a lighthouse thingo broadcasting some random bytes as challenge strings in plaintext

21:57

and nodes are receiving and storing those challenge strings

21:58

if I'm operator of peer A and want to send a message to peer B, what do I do? pick one of my stored challenge strings, sign it, send it along with my message?

21:59

yes i think so, and note that there is a time window there re. how recent challenge string has to be, to avoid replay. i.e., those strings expire. and yes that's how you send a msg to B iirc

21:59

A and B may then decide to enter some different "state" but the general gossipd design is stateless, i.e. there is no session

22:00

probably a dumb question

22:00

mircea_popescu had concerns re. "signed", but iirc the concept of "station key" (vs. "mega important owner key") helped there. not sure if entirely resolved, tho

22:00

but why can't A just sign any random bytes? why does it need to come from the lighthouse?

22:00

(btw the challenge strings may be in something else than plaintext, all depends on lighthouse and medium)

22:02

i believe this relates to asciilifeform's "traditional challenge-response creates DoS vector". so with a lighthouse auth string, one more important point is that a particular auth string cannot be reused.

22:02

oh nevermind, obviously if you sign any random bytes it can be replayed

22:02

yeah

22:03

yeah, so this avoid replay but also sets a limit to how much DoS exposure you have (one of the limits, at least)

22:03

avoids*

22:03

well i guess it's the same thing, kinda

22:03

another probably dumb question

22:04

why not just sign the current UTC timestamp

22:04

you can't replay timestamps outside of a certain window +/- 0.5s or something?

22:04

because you can predict the future of such a lighthouse, hence craft any number of packets in advance

22:05

let me recall why that is super important lol; but the unpredictability of the auth strings coming from lighthouse is important

22:05

*

Framedragger is "recall vs. just think about it" mode

22:05

Framedragger: really appreciate your patience, I get the feeling asciilifeform would be shouting at me again by now

22:05

nah folks are just busy

22:06

i guess he'd say "read the article [implying read the comments, too]"

22:06

I'm not sure I understand how you can craft packets in advance if they need to be signed

22:08

hold on, you're right

22:08

*

Framedragger reading how asciilifeform described the packets, if at all, because forgot

22:09

also I can't see how the model can be *completely* stateless, there will always be some kind of minimal session which is "hi, I'm A" followed by a response tailored to A

22:09

unless all responses are identical for all peers, which would make them plaintext

22:11

well now ima have to read this whole thang

22:11

sina: right, re future, i didn't make sense there

22:11

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675514 << yes.

22:11

Logged on 2017-06-28 01:19 sina: in current model, operator can write a message and claim it is from anyone and "publish" it to their own message store. when peers connect, the messages since last seen are delivered, each encrypted with a peer-pair unique RSA key. so as the message "progresses" between peers it gets encrypted, then decrypted and stored in each peers message store in plaintext

22:13

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675543 << yes, server looks through its keys.

22:13

Logged on 2017-06-28 01:28 sina: asciilifeform: can you clarify, *all* comms? when I was implementing my first pass at encrypting comms yest, I found that at least the very first message when a peer connects as a client would be plaintext, i.e. "hi I'm A", otherwise the "server" would need to enumerate all its keys to find if it knows the peer?

22:15

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675565 << the problem with the concept of a "session" is that it attempts to link machine state to world state. this is a very tenuous proposition, and the fundamental reason why sessionificatyion of (the correctly designed) stateless http protocol failed for 30 years straight and will continue to fail forever.

22:15

Logged on 2017-06-28 01:45 Framedragger: sina: fwiw (he can speak for himself but to save you time), asciilifeform does not like sessions [ever|anymore], and considers them ugly beasts which won't have a place in his gossipd bed

22:16

mircea_popescu: i fucking can't reckon right now why output of lighthouse has to be unpredictable. damn it :D *if* all packets are signed with peer keys that receiving peer already has, timestamp with defined validity window would avoid replay... (http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/#comment-119045)

22:16

you know, the lighthouse idea, while an idea, didn't actually get included.

22:17

prolly should separate the re-discussing of that from the guy trying to comprehend the spec

22:17

situation is different if the point is for peer A to newly introduce self to B. then (sina) "unpredictable lighthouse" is important because it sets a limit to how many auth strings can be used.

22:17

no peers introduce themselves though. at all.

22:18

(in fact maybe that's an important point as well: lighthouse shits at a fixed rate; there is a discrete amount of auth strings which can be used. i guess this is obvious, i'm slow)

22:18

mircea_popescu: right

22:18

the only way for A and B to be introduced, outside of the grandfatherly, A fucks B and they exchange bits of paper, is C tells A about B and B about A.

22:18

aha.

22:19

there's no peer discovery as a gossipd function ; at all times it knows already all the peers it will ever know. in lawyer speak this is called "never ask a question you don't know the answer to."

22:19

mircea_popescu: yeah lighthouse discussion does complicate matters, the fact of the matter is, it's the only current (written) alternative to DoS-prone traditional challenge-response (A asks B to plz send challenge, A then response to B with that challenge), within gossipd universe

22:20

right

22:20

also lighthouse concept didn't get properly included in spec because it's probably not yet finished, ha

22:20

possibly.

22:21

"Re 119 : You'll have to properly spec this if you want it." (you said it!)

22:21

mircea_popescu: while I appreciate the validty of issues about sessions, challenge/response dictates there must be something akin to a session, even if that isn't the most precisely fitting term

22:21

a

22:21

sina what challenge response ?

22:21

let's go through the process in detail.

22:21

pls

22:21

at t0, A encrypts plaintext P to key B1.

22:21

at t1, A remits P.B1 to B.

22:22

at t2, B is free to decrypt or not decrypt P.B1. it is supposed to make this decision on the basis of B1 and whatever other data it uses to make such a decision.

22:22

at t3, providing B has opted to decrypt P.B1, it is in possession of P. if P is a standard message, it contains a reference allowing it to respond.

22:23

if the operator of B opts to respond, at t4 A will receive a P'.Ai

22:23

Framedragger: recall, mircea_popescu and asciilifeform never came to a 'hey we have this 1 algo', so all q re 'gossipd' presume, imho, mircea_popescu's algo, which was actually called so

22:23

if the operator of B opts to relay, at t5 various nodes will receive a P.?j

22:24

asciilifeform exactly. nmot that i'm against further exploring the lighthouse thing, but gotta be separate item for nao.

22:24

sina so where's a session in there ?

22:24

and it was different from asciilifeform's, and did not include 'lighthouses', luby transform, a few elses

22:24

"a reference allowing it to respond." << is that not a session concept?

22:24

sina i imagine it's a keyid of some kind. that makes a session ?

22:25

mircea_popescu: I assume A generated that reference, and it is storing it until B has responded?

22:25

asciilifeform: ah, then i confused things by way of saying that "challenge-response needs to be ditched in gossipd model". hmm. i did think that the two items are not conceptually separable anymore

22:25

sina all keys are stored forever.

22:25

Framedragger: gotta distinguish mircea_popescu's algo from the MB or so of asciilifeform's commentz re same

22:26

mircea_popescu: well you did say "whenever operator feels like it, keys get nuked." (i guess that's not the same, tho)

22:26

mircea_popescu: ok that makes sense, you should consider updating the blogpost :P

22:26

Framedragger that is what "forever" means to machines.

22:26

because the blogpost has a challenge/response thingo

22:26

link me ?

22:26

http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/ III. Gossipd will receive inbound connectionsvii from identified clientsviii and on the basis of that identification produce an encrypted challenge string, which constitutes its response. If the other party responds with the proper challenge string, the connection is established ; otherwise it is dropped.

22:26

asciilifeform, some yrs before being introduced to mircea_popescu, wrote an (unpublished) algo, 'kapelle', that resembled mircea_popescu's gossipd. hence 'strong feelingz'

22:27

sina yeah that's amply misleading.

22:27

haha

22:27

this clarification is much appreciated, I do think I can rework what I've got to fit the above model

22:27

CONFUSE THE ENEMY

22:27

the idea was to report to the operator, "We have link with x". but conceptually, sessions as a fundamental building block of comms, are not used.

22:28

(had slightly different domain: botnet orbital control...)

22:28

there's a difference between my client showing alf as "online" and my client being built on the concept of sessions.

22:28

asciilifeform: i never got to comandeer one from irc channel, am sad

22:29

Framedragger: it 'gets old' quickly

22:30

alright

22:30

thankyall

22:30

time for some food and stuffs, I will spend time later trying to implement this

22:30

think of 'we have link' as if with, e.g, satellite

22:30

i'm in fact curious why in your model lighthouse has to be unpredictable, asciilifeform. maybe it's something very obvious

22:30

i.e. when was last time of contact

22:31

oh yeah, while we have you alf, can you answer above? why is lighthouse necessary if A can just sign current timestamp and B only accept timestamps within a small variance window?

22:31

Framedragger: because not signing but decrypting

22:31

think.

22:31

o

22:31

wait

22:31

( why does deedbot cookie gotta be random! )

22:31

yeah this is too densely compressed

22:32

asciilifeform: if the challenges are being broadcast by the lighthouse in the clear, and all the peers are storing N of them, can't evilguy X just encrypt all of them?

22:32

and send them at will?

22:32

i assumed that packets were signed by A

22:32

yeah

22:32

whereas in 'sign lighthouse' model, also gotta be unpredictable, but to prevent replay

22:32

without having to store anything

22:33

you can prevent replay by signing a timestamp and accepting only "current" timestamp within a window of +/- 0.X seconds?

22:33

i.e. a signed(S) could not have practically come into existence before you broadcast S, if the latter is a long rng turd

22:33

sina: didja read the clocks thread ?

22:33

obvously not

22:33

we don't ntp

22:33

fair

22:34

and disbelieve in the possibility of accurate synced clocks.

22:34

tmsr is a weird place

22:34

( sans ntp and similar imperial shenanigans )

22:34

ntp requires a hitler.

22:34

asciilifeform: but the main work by the receiving peer is in checking the signature of the other peer anyway (besides decrypting the message itself), no?

22:34

question is about unpredictability anyway

22:34

so more general

22:35

<+asciilifeform> Framedragger: because not signing but decrypting << I am not sure I understand this. Why is it decrypting? Considering everyone has the plaintext from broadcasts

22:35

and if the main work is in checking signature, how does a "could not have practically come into existence before you broadcast S" help with regards to DoS?

22:35

sina: say i take random string R and encrypt to pubkeys p1, p2,...,pN

22:36

if incoming message is *not signed*, then i understand - it sets a fixed horizon in terms of how much you can spam.

22:36

anyway, I guess this is a seperate question for smarter people, I will just stick to trying to update my thingo to match mircea_popescu description above

22:36

must food

22:36

sina: to get a window to speak to me, you come back with the plaintext of a recent R. proving that you are one of p1,...pN.

22:37

asciilifeform: ah, damn. is the point to prove to B that A holds A's key at time t? i feel dumb

22:37

aaaha

22:37

lol, umm, "duh", thanks for bearing

22:37

dun worry Framedragger , it does take some actual sweat, to puzzle out

22:37

but asciilifeform is happy to give a hand.

22:38

sina: point was to prove continued identity of A, continued ownership of A's private key, so to speak.

22:38

*

Framedragger appreciates

22:38

*

Framedragger and goes to sleep

22:38

('come back with the plaintext' of course means that you, e.g,, gimme a hash H(R + salt), or the like, not literally exposing it for world!)

22:39

goodnight Framedragger

22:43

btw note that 'decrypt mode lighthouse' is deedbot-like, the answerer proves that he holds one of p1,...,pN keys. rather than one in particular.

22:43

without distributing signed material.

22:44

aha.

22:44

this btw is also a major feature of mircea_popescu's (non-lighthousetronic) algo, and imho important

22:44

the problem with it, once ammended for the sign issue, was not exactly technical, more in terms of how expensiuve it is

22:45

not "it won't work" but rather "will it be worth working"

22:45

it can be as expensive ( broadcast to galaxy! ) or cheap ( request a turd in web form, which actually reduces to approx. mircea_popescu's original..! ) as desired.

22:46

smoothly.

22:46

conceivably.

22:46

i imagine most stations would do something in between.

22:47

( homework: calculate packet shitting rate necessary to hit every ipv4 at least weekly )

22:47

http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675603 << because this imports GPS into gossipd, or most of gossipd history will not contain GPS or anything like it.

22:47

Logged on 2017-06-28 02:04 sina: you can't replay timestamps outside of a certain window +/- 0.5s or something?

22:51

the weather is shit so I am just going to order a pizza and sit in the dark

22:51

enjoy ?

22:52

:D

22:52

oh yeah. I'm actually on holidays from work this week, that is why I'm around hassling y'all at all hours

22:52

hey, i like it.

22:53

sina: think also through the implications of 'no clock'. suddenly, chronological ordering is nontrivial.

22:54

asciilifeform: chronological ordering of messages?

22:54

('timestamp' has no factual meaning outside of hardware on your desk. and even there - 'fuzzy')

22:54

sina: aha, what-happened-before-whatelse

22:55

yeah, per the spec, peers are only storing messages with local timestamp they received them

22:55

yes, witness-time

22:55

ordering/conflict resolution is left up to the operator

22:55

einstein'd be proud

22:55

sina: point being, you cannot rely on timestamps of any form to distinguish old packets from new and filter replays

22:55

notice how it's not even POSSIBLE for the "same" message to be delivered via gossipd. for purely quantic reasons.

22:56

aha.

22:57

sina: i recommend to also review logs re 'protocolic vs promisetronic' concept

22:57

then when i say 'timestamps not produced by yourself are promisetronic' it will immediately click in your brain.

22:57

this is the root of the divergence so far, so not a bad reference. encountering a problem, sina tends to seek the "correct" dependency to bake in.

22:57

*

sina addes to notes

22:57

as a matter of habit.

22:58

this is very much not what tmsr ever does.

22:58

s/correct/desired/ pls

22:58

ideal ? community-approved ? you name it.

22:58

yeah

22:59

is it bad?

22:59

it's different.

22:59

it can work, depending, but it doesn't work by itself, it has to be a very strictly examioned thing.

22:59

there was an old sf tale, maybe 1940s, about a d00d in the Evil Future who is sentenced to death , but 'in house arrest', is put in a seemingly normal flat where common household objects are boobytrapped

22:59

I mean I *can* go off and do my own thing, but then I am making a sinathing not a tmsrthing

22:59

with proviso that if he lives for a week, he gets reprieved

23:00

this is roughly analogous situation to the daily life of tmsr software folx

23:00

does he in an explosion of shit as he sits on the toilet?

23:00

sina the problem with the non-tmsr things is that they are undependable. in the complete sense of that term : temporally, functionally, you name it.

23:01

sina: dies when 'reprieved' and turns door knob to leave, forgetting all caution: poisoned

23:01

the future is not all bad. I order pizza and can see its current progress in the store and GPS tells me its location en route

23:01

( spoiler!!!1 )

23:01

asciilifeform: haha

23:01

sina do you see how this is an extra cost, not an added benefit ?

23:02

my pizza just takes the my saying "yo, make pizza!"

23:03

mircea_popescu: my perspective is that I am just trying to implement what appears to be an interesting spec. for the reason of being interested in implementing that spec. so when I ask for tmsrthing clarification, it is just in terms of spec, not in terms of "making a thing" ...if that makes sense

23:03

sure.

23:03

Mircea Popescu: Pizza Whisperer

23:03

lel

23:03

but, and here's the beauty, for the same money today had salmon.

23:03

the pizza doesn't even exist, you just say "yo, make pizza" and flour assembles itself into dough, tomatos become paste, basil grinds itself

23:03

slavegirls!

23:04

we aren't all rich Romanians with slavegirls ok

23:04

aite, watch teh gps like it means something then!!!

23:04

BEOTCH

23:04

haha

23:05

mwahahahaha

23:06

computer pseudoscience may be the only engineering discipline in which the ancient solutions actually are better.

23:06

token ring?

23:07

slavegirl to run kitchen >>> gps to watch kitchen being run in

23:08

see, because if she is too slow, i don't just SAY she's too slow. she fixes it. and if she dun fix it fast enough i got whips to help along. what's the gps do ? it doesn't afford you any agency towards the pizzeria. yet you're wartching. so what do you do ? you turn inward, educate ~yourself~.

23:08

CRT monitors!

23:08

stupid fucking tool.

23:08

i don't want to grind myself by the measure of some 9.60 an hour mexicans in a kitchen somewhere.

23:09

mircea_popescu: this is AU, no Mexicans, mostly SE Asians

23:09

do you know how many soviets yelled at the television set ?

23:09

americans used to shoot at cinema screens

23:09

in the early days

23:09

aha

23:09

like birds, attacking reflection in window

23:10

i've seen some awesome bird-bird rape since i've been here btw. you have NO FDUCKING IDEA what birds do.

23:10

'that ain't another pigeon, idiot , it's yerself'

23:10

speaking of birds, I read this yest: https://archive.fo/bvoGR

23:11

if rat can learn to smoke.. why not bird.

23:13

re this http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-28#1675484 ...here is one funny fact I learned today!

23:13

Logged on 2017-06-28 00:18 Framedragger: btw maersk (some related ports) is down due to new "ransomware" (orange website says it's the same nsa "eternalblue" windows vuln)

23:14

"If you sign malware with a fake self-signed Microsoft certificate, several major AV's on VirusTotal will ignore it"

23:14

heh.

23:14

following affected: @kaspersky @arcabit @Malwarebytes @TrendMicro @Webroot @zonealarm

23:14

grep "begin signed" blabla

23:15

majority of infections have been in Ukraine, there are screenshots of lots of Ukranian stuff (grocery store terminals, train stations, etc)

23:15

whoever wrote it didn't suck like WannaCry authors and implemented lateral movement

23:15

so it can go inside the "crunchy on outside, soft inside" networks

23:16

nb

23:16

what is nb?

23:16

not bad, contraction

23:17

ah thx

23:17

also, unrelated is this: https://archive.fo/lr3iN

23:17

ikea made awesome solar concentrator for 5 fiat units

23:17

were you here for the "solar power" hax / lulz ?

23:17

don't think so

23:18

lemme fish it out i guess

23:18

OH YEAH, going back to the ransomware that hit Maersk

23:18

Chernobyl is running on manual monitoring after their systems got hit!

23:19

http://trilema.com/2017/the-incidental-humiliation-of-obamas-clean-energy-policies-marc-andreessens-internet-of-farts-and-other-such-comedic-gold-bricks/

23:19

see also that day in logs, lulz were had

23:21

ha that is interesting, but the ikea thing is just a $5 polished metal bowl that has been setting stuff in peoples houses on fire

23:21

will check logs for more lel

23:21

sounds liek a chiuldhood dream

23:22

live your dreams mircea_popescu! set all that stuff on fire :P

23:22

i do make a fire now and again.

23:22

got a whole bbq terrace thing by teh pool.

23:22

mmmm bbq I love me some bbq pork

23:23

well, no gps here so can't help you

23:24

makes sense, you only just made it to fire, still another 7000 years before GPS :D :P

23:24

hehehe

23:25

ok for real time to vegetate now, enjoy the day all, I will spend some time on rejigging gossipdthing later and probably be back with more dumb questions at that point

23:25

works

23:38

PeterL

Good evening Trilema

23:39