Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-06-25 | 2017-06-27 → ↓
00:16 ben_vulpes sina: you read http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=line+speed ?
00:17 ben_vulpes not to piss in cheerios, but to find shared basis.
00:19 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-22#1673500 << most folks who bitch in the manner of "oh noes, rising rents and stagnant wages" have not meaningfully pursued higher wages. not a matter of "rich as know how to get" but "thought this rich was enough forever" which is very foolish.
00:19 a111 Logged on 2017-06-22 19:48 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-22#1673487 << i find it lulzy that folx will happily say this to someone to whom they would ~not~ necessarily say 'kill yerself nao, slice lengthwise' . but at the same time the phrases have EQUIVALENT meaning, because at some point you are already as rich as you possibly know how to become.
00:21 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-25#1674337 << does, yes
00:21 a111 Logged on 2017-06-25 17:43 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-25#1674299 << i suspect if you manually upped mimisbrunnr (until he implements the self voice) it would quote now
00:24 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-25#1674299 << yeah, it suxx, i hear you. probably going do the right thing like phf and use timestamps
00:24 a111 Logged on 2017-06-25 16:07 mp-en-managua: ah, ben_vulpes' thingee dun read outloud huh. also the windows original product keys are a little lengthy.
00:28 sina heya ben_vulpes
00:28 sina thanks for the headsup on that, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-01#1418726 looks interesting but quite different from what I'm making :P
00:28 a111 Logged on 2016-03-01 03:53 asciilifeform: mats: the idea is, a kind of line-speed (GB ethernet) wall, where crud goes in, and valid in-wot gossipd out.
00:30 sina ben_vulpes: that is quite different from the spec :P
~ 36 minutes ~
01:07 ben_vulpes sina: consider your basis shared!
01:09 sina ben_vulpes: I'm not smart enough to make what's described there, just implementing the spec I saw for amusement
01:19 ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: broken link: http://www.contravex.com/trilema-bots-directory/
01:22 ben_vulpes from http://trilema.com/2016/trilema-bot-spec/
01:28 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-25#1674280 << don't forget that you can put a holy 2-stroke in the secret apu slot of the slavecycle at the ghetto craft table and walk away with the prized freedombike!
01:28 a111 Logged on 2017-06-25 06:30 BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Felt that. The thing is gotta learn the more mundane feelings to learn the novel ones
01:28 ben_vulpes *brapp brapp*!
01:39 ben_vulpes on the "laptops suck" thread, now that i'm using an adult workstation most of the time, my hands start hurting after a bare thirty minutes on a 13" laptop kb
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01:40 ben_vulpes and so, adieu
~ 37 minutes ~
02:17 BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: AHA
02:17 BingoBoingo chainsaw bike!
~ 17 minutes ~
02:35 BingoBoingo Or as an alternative there's a number of new manufacter 2-cycle scooters which do not require registration due to various "moped" exemptions. Needs to be under 50cc displacement which means riding machine with 1/4 of a lawnmower engine or twice a string trimmer engine.
~ 3 hours 23 minutes ~
05:58 sina alright. the gossipd thingo is 0.0.1 implemented. peers can communicate, each session (fetch messages) is mediated by deedbot style OTP with per peer-pair RSA keys (no GPG shell asciilifeform, using libtomcrypt). I wrote a tiny client to add peers, exchange keys, broadcast msgs and view stored msgs. there is a README.
05:58 sina if anyone wants to play https://github.com/sinner-/gossipd
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05:59 sina it's still a little rough around the edges so you can break it pretty easily if you disconnect during a session or send bad data or whatever like that.
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06:00 sina pytomcrypt is the only external dependency
06:03 sina tmsr trigger warnings: it uses sqlite, TCP, OOP but I tried to make it modular enough that those things could easily be changed. It isn't the lighthouse or linespeed thing asciilifeform has mentioned, I just tried to follow the spec on trilema.com
06:05 sina ~700 LoC
~ 2 hours 10 minutes ~
08:16 sina TL;DR: unfixed Skylake and Kaby Lake processors could, in some
08:16 sina situations, dangerously misbehave when hyper-threading is enabled.
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08:16 sina Disable hyper-threading immediately in BIOS/UEFI to work around the
08:16 sina problem. Read this advisory for instructions about an Intel-provided
08:16 sina fix.
08:17 sina https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2017/06/msg00308.html
~ 20 minutes ~
08:37 erlehmann sina have you checked all your input against a formal grammar today?
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08:41 erlehmann http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674429 << “of course i've validated my input, officer, i swear”
08:41 a111 Logged on 2017-06-26 09:59 sina: it's still a little rough around the edges so you can break it pretty easily if you disconnect during a session or send bad data or whatever like that.
08:41 shinohai lel
08:52 sina erlehmann: nope hehe
08:54 erlehmann sina http://langsec.org/occupy/
08:56 sina erlehmann: yup. if you look through the code you see I do validate inputs as they come in on the socket for example, but I noticed while I was developing that there are some more subtle edge cases and that's what I was referring to
08:58 sina erlehmann: for example https://github.com/sinner-/gossipd/blob/master/gossipd/cmd/gossipc.py#L68 ...it throws an error if you try to add a peer before an RSA key is available
08:58 sina I was just happy to get the OTP working for today and will continue to increment it
09:10 sina erlehmann: I do hope to be able to code a naughty host counter up, still thinking about that
~ 1 hours 17 minutes ~
10:28 mod6 mornin'
10:28 sina mornin mod6
10:28 sina I was just about to sign off for the night :)
10:28 sina hope you have a nice day
10:35 shinohai O hai mod6
~ 51 minutes ~
11:27 mod6 how goes shinohai ?
11:28 shinohai Not bad mod6 .... want to get with you later this evening on the new Makefiles thing if you have a few minutes to spare
11:30 erlehmann > Makefiles
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11:30 erlehmann shinohai http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/bin/redo-sh.html
11:32 shinohai Interesting erlehmann ....
11:33 erlehmann shinohai faster smaller and more reliable than make
11:34 erlehmann shinohai you can see here why redo is superior by far http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/posts/redo-gcc-automatic-dependencies.html#dependency-graph-visualization
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11:34 * shinohai likes anything that can be done better w/ shell scripting
11:35 erlehmann if your build-system is not recording two dozen dependency relationship for a simple hello world program, it is pretty much a non-build-system
11:36 erlehmann reading the text explains that statement
11:37 shinohai Hey the redo-dot dep graph thing is pretty nifty too!
11:38 erlehmann i have yet to see a build system that can do so much in so few lines of code
11:39 erlehmann shinohai for a massive real-world C++ workload, build https://github.com/linleyh/liberation-circuit
11:39 erlehmann it has cmake scripts and a makefile
11:39 erlehmann but the cmake scripts don't work well
11:39 erlehmann and the makefile only builds the project on every second invocation
11:39 erlehmann makelucz
11:39 erlehmann make lulz
11:51 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/06/supreme-court-lifts-lesser-court-injunctions-against-trump-travel-bans/ << Qntra - Supreme Court Lifts Lesser Court Injunctions Against Trump Travel Bans
11:56 BingoBoingo In not news, Buttstamp now introduce Litecoin trading to two cans and a string too
12:06 mod6 <+shinohai> Not bad mod6 .... want to get with you later this evening on the new Makefiles thing if you have a few minutes to spare << sure thing. did you get to try it out?
12:09 shinohai Haven't gotten to try it yet, but want to run the full suite of tests as soon as I get back home this afternoon. ;)
12:10 mod6 ok, np. there are a matrix of tests that can be extrapolated from the doc.
12:10 mod6 we can discuss later though.
12:12 shinohai kk, will ping you when I get back - sorry for the pm tag this weekend :/
~ 17 minutes ~
12:30 asciilifeform in other lulz >> https://archive.is/Iqf3R << see also ye olde 'fly in it? i won't ~walk under it~'
12:32 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674428 << fwiw i carefully read all of it. asciilifeform's verdict: very much a gabriel_laddel-ization of gossipd. does 0 of the necessary work, and drags in 5+GB of liquishit deps (python, sql, some derp's crypto lib.) the amount of this that would have to be rewritten, from the ground, is 100%. not even useful as illustration of anything, because NONE of the actually complicated moving parts of a
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12:32 a111 Logged on 2017-06-26 09:58 sina: if anyone wants to play https://github.com/sinner-/gossipd
12:32 asciilifeform proper gossipd, are in there.
12:32 trinque didn't a (temporarily) flying one catch fire the other week?
12:33 asciilifeform trinque: possibly, but i missed
12:34 TomServo In moar MIT lulz >> https://archive.is/NkP2Y
12:34 trinque asciilifeform: https://archive.is/FJtTL
12:34 asciilifeform TomServo: lulzy. see also the infamous light bulb.
12:35 trinque clearly needs to upgrade to the f35, it's 19 better.
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12:35 asciilifeform 'Ever since IS&T started to undergo "The Transformation", there has been a deliberate and systematic attempt to change Computing at MIT for the worse. Services that have been relied on for years have been discontinued and turned down, frequently without notice. Infrastructure critical to running MIT has been outsourced to cloud services during "emergency maintenance". Most of these changes had minimal impact on students and faculty,
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12:35 asciilifeform until IS&T suddenly and unceremoniously decided to renumber all of campus onto a private, NAT'd address space. Some buildings have already been migrated, with same-day notice, causing outages of services hosted in those buildings.'
12:36 asciilifeform gold.
12:36 TomServo asciilifeform: Tis what I was (obliquely) referencing with the 'moar'
12:37 asciilifeform hey, they gotta keep inmat^H^H^H^H^Hstudents from hosting warez/trb/etc terrorisms somehow!1111
12:37 asciilifeform 'Although the ranges sold initially were unused, IS&T announced that the entire upper half of MITnet would be sold, and that buildings would need to be renumbered.' << holy fuq mircea_popescu was right
12:38 asciilifeform they spent it all on... ethertardium?!
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12:38 asciilifeform picture 'upper half of british crown's jewels will be sold...' mentioned in passing in some unrelated crud
12:39 asciilifeform 'Instead of being renumbered into publicly-accessible IP ranges, IS&T is moving all of campus into RFC-1918 10/8 addresses, and enforcing the campus firewall, which will be made up of Palo Alto 7050 devices, which are best known for their deep-packet inspection feature, App-ID.' << ahahaha so it ~is~ about zapping unauthorized nonethertardium nodes etc
12:40 asciilifeform or, alternatively, desperate usg dod-like last gasp to keep massive fleet of winblows boxen properly declitorized and infibulated
12:40 asciilifeform great lulzfind, TomServo
12:41 asciilifeform ty for posting.
12:42 asciilifeform ( https://archive.is/Tr9PF , linked within, also interesting : 'Led by IS&T’s vice president, John Charles, the ambitious reorganization began in February 2015 and aims to spur innovation through agile software development practices adopted from industry. Charles emphasizes that this is not a typical reorganization, but rather a complete transformation of MIT’s IT department. ... Many longtime employees have resigned ... Charles,
12:42 asciilifeform who was interviewed over email for this story, said he “cannot comment on individual decisions and personnel matters,” other than to say that all personnel matters were “handled in accordance with Institute HR policies.”' )
12:42 asciilifeform )
12:46 asciilifeform erlehmann: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674460 << 'redo' is theoretically neat ( at least when compared to gnumake ) but - and i studied it, since you last mentioned it - it strikes me as a near-miss attempt to invent 'v'
12:46 a111 Logged on 2017-06-26 15:34 erlehmann: shinohai you can see here why redo is superior by far http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/posts/redo-gcc-automatic-dependencies.html#dependency-graph-visualization
12:46 asciilifeform gnumake is one of those turds that ~every serious user, eventually tries to rebuild, out of whatever is at hand, because of sheer barfalicity
12:47 asciilifeform but the generalized, correct incarnation of 'automatic dependency graph walker' is : v.
12:50 mod6 <+shinohai> kk, will ping you when I get back - sorry for the pm tag this weekend :/ << no worries at all
12:50 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674456 << thread: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema-mod6?d=2017-6-22#dcfcaad0-5fef-4672-8692-e8a69b9df2f5
12:50 a111 Logged on 2017-06-26 15:30 erlehmann: > Makefiles
12:53 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674434 << has hyperthreading ever actually worked ? ( see also... http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/hyper-threading )
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12:53 a111 Logged on 2017-06-26 12:16 sina: situations, dangerously misbehave when hyper-threading is enabled.
12:54 asciilifeform even on chips where it did not cause halt-and-catch-fire, it was always a sort of hardware equivalent of ye olde 'ramdoubler' scamola -- 'make luser think he has 2x the cores'
12:55 asciilifeform was introduced right when moore's law first was beginning to sputter out, and new ways of bamboozling idiot new-iron chasers were being devised - 'let's up the clock speed but cut the work per-cycle', etc
12:58 asciilifeform so intel shat out ht, aka 'i can't believe it's not a cpu core'
13:01 erlehmann asciilifeform i am curious, how does v walk dependencies and non-existence dependencies related to files?
13:01 asciilifeform erlehmann: what means to walk 'non-existence dependencies' ?
13:01 erlehmann i was of the impression that it presses a specific view of the world out of a) source code b) patches c) wot
13:02 asciilifeform if a vpatch refers to a hash of a nonexistent file, the process stops.
13:02 erlehmann so v is more like a reverse epigraph, in my understanding
13:03 asciilifeform thing is, nowhere is it written that a v program ~must~ be a gnudiff-like thing
13:03 erlehmann non-existence dependencies are leaf nodes, so tree-walking stops there
13:03 asciilifeform can easily have process invocations (e.g. compiler invokes) rather than filename-hash
13:03 erlehmann i see the overlap
13:03 asciilifeform and they'd trigger, if hash not found immediately. and so you get a maketron.
13:04 asciilifeform current vtrons assume that all of the signed nodes exist on disk already.
13:04 asciilifeform but this is not intrinsic.
13:05 asciilifeform ( so long as the signers, sign the hashes, and you still have a cryptographically healthy frozen history -- it is entirely acceptable to specify also how the inputs are to be produced. )
13:05 erlehmann apart from separation of concerns (tree-walking vs. invoked programs), what other gains are to be had by using a hypothetical v maketron instead of the existing redo maketron?
13:06 asciilifeform erlehmann: it isn't clear to me that these belong in separate programs, and that a system ought to have two tree walkers.
13:06 asciilifeform one - proper one - suffices. and it is easier to produce from a generalized vtron, than to produce a vtron from, e.g., 'redo'.
13:07 asciilifeform in general, the tumour mass of 'i have 200 utils that do ~same thing on my box, and not a single one ~quite~ works entirely' is to be flamethrowered.
13:07 erlehmann i understand completely
13:07 erlehmann i am willing to abandon my redo efforts if v maketron suits my needs better. does there exist a v implementation in <500 lines of shell?
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13:08 asciilifeform erlehmann: shell - afaik not
13:08 erlehmann i chose bourne shell specifically because redo runs everywhere and i consider it stupid to need a C++ compiler or python interpreter for building stuff.
13:08 asciilifeform ... but not to need bourne shell ?
13:08 asciilifeform i have systems here with no bourne shell.
13:09 erlehmann i have a single phone with no bourne shell and two others that have it.
13:09 asciilifeform but with c compiler.
13:09 erlehmann but that's my need. i was scratching my own itch.
13:09 asciilifeform nothing wrong with that.
13:10 erlehmann in terms of v, i have only produced this piece of questionable sanity http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/bin/vdiff
13:10 asciilifeform but gotta remember, erlehmann , that one man's 'this is ON EVERY SYSTEM, motherfuckers, not an optional shitlib' is another's optional shitlib.
13:10 asciilifeform erlehmann: that looks a lot like my original vdiff.
13:11 erlehmann same problem domain, simple problem, DON'T TASE ME BRO
13:11 asciilifeform lolk
13:11 erlehmann i think it's subtly wrong btw
13:11 erlehmann thinking about the grammar of vpatches made me come here
13:12 erlehmann asciilifeform i often do stuff in shell because major implementations fuck it up. this, for example: http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/bin/unicode
13:12 asciilifeform all in-band signalling is subtly wrong.
13:13 asciilifeform erlehmann: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-11#1581252 << see thread, for instance.
13:13 a111 Logged on 2016-12-11 18:53 asciilifeform: so i had two base64's png files in there,
13:13 erlehmann well, full recognition before processing.
13:14 erlehmann well, epigraph has a preamble that parses input http://news.dieweltistgarnichtso.net/bin/epigraph
13:15 erlehmann the part from “while read dt source tr _;” on is solely to prevent bad stuff happening
13:15 asciilifeform maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, but it'd take same, IF NOT GREATER, effort, for asciilifeform to ascertain the truth of this statement, as to rewrite the linked proggy
13:15 asciilifeform which is a problem.
13:15 erlehmann asciilifeform thanks for giving an example regarding +++
13:16 asciilifeform erlehmann: the +++ thing was actually a more serious problem than you might walk away thinking on first reading -- because it is physically impossible to fix it without MAKING NEWLINES SIGNIFICANT semantically
13:16 erlehmann actually, ++++ is a valid base64 input
13:16 asciilifeform it is indeed
13:17 asciilifeform so if you wanted to distinguish 'proper' vs 'bug' +++, you would have to make the grammar CONSIDERABLY more complicated, and transform the ENTIRE input text, and then un-transform it BACK, every time
13:17 asciilifeform see also gpg's '-' idiocy
13:17 asciilifeform and you would also have to not-disregard newlines
13:18 asciilifeform which in fact get mutilated by ~every piece of shit attached to the net
13:19 asciilifeform somehow LEAVE MY MOTHERFUCKING BITSTREAM ALONE is not an option if you're transmitting 'ascii text'
13:20 asciilifeform ( see also mega-thread , http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-29#901052 )
13:20 a111 Logged on 2014-10-29 01:36 asciilifeform: because plain ascii is like naked people
13:20 erlehmann ; printf '++++' | base64 -d | od -t x1
13:20 erlehmann 0000000 fb ef be
13:20 asciilifeform noshit.jpg
13:22 asciilifeform process-input-until-next-MAGICSTRING ( aka in-band signalling ) is inescapably and fundamentally braindamaged.
13:22 erlehmann asciilifeform there might be one detail why it is possible to make a v maketron, but no v redotron. does v try to work out all dependencies before processing?
13:22 asciilifeform erlehmann: indeed it does. read the source.
13:22 erlehmann i did and asked to clarify
13:22 erlehmann toposort
13:23 asciilifeform erlehmann: or at least read ben_vulpes's classic article re subj, http://cascadianhacker.com/07_v-tronics-101-a-gentle-introduction-to-the-most-serene-republic-of-bitcoins-cryptographically-backed-version-control-system
13:23 asciilifeform he explains it better than i ever did.
13:23 erlehmann the point of redo vs. make is that make does the same: build tree, walk tree. the problem is that this may need in a second treewalking phase and a third etc. pp. until the build becomes stable
13:24 erlehmann think of TeX requiring at least three compiles until layout becomes stable
13:24 asciilifeform erlehmann: i'm not sure the existence of partial-builds is even justified.
13:24 asciilifeform because i'm quite certain that the existence of large codebases is NOT justified.
13:24 erlehmann so redo turns the process on its head: build is atomic, but redo only claims to have a tree when all is built.
13:24 asciilifeform whereas small codebases build quickly enough that partial rebuilds are unnecessary.
13:26 erlehmann current number of files that OAMI converted and uploaded to wikimedia commons stands at 35646
13:26 asciilifeform wassat
13:26 erlehmann most of those are audio or video files. every format conversion is a build
13:27 erlehmann a bot i wrote, that travels PubMed Central open access publications, takes supplementary materials, fixes common errors in metadata, converts the files to other formats and uploads them.
13:27 asciilifeform what's that got to do with whether a maketron ought to be able to do partial builds ?
13:29 erlehmann well, full rebuilds are infeasible, in terms of time and computing power resources i have available
13:29 asciilifeform if 'full builds are infeasible', your tree is mis-structured.
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13:29 asciilifeform and there are things in it that ought to be separate trees.
13:30 erlehmann how would you structure it? programmatically, it does not matter if there are 3 videos or 30000, a “partial build” just converts the ones that need converting and uploading.
13:30 asciilifeform ( and noshit.jpg, 'entire works of mankind as 1 tree' leads to 'infeasible in terms of time and computing power available' )
13:30 asciilifeform erlehmann: you DON'T TOUCH THE ALREADY CONVERTED ONES omfg
13:30 asciilifeform they don't belong being visible !
13:30 erlehmann okay, but then one of the converted ones changes.
13:31 asciilifeform why the fuck would it CHANGE ?!
13:31 asciilifeform that's the thing with v : inputs NEVER CHANGE
13:31 erlehmann metadata cleanup, maybe.
13:31 erlehmann i see
13:31 asciilifeform immutable, motherfuckers, datastructure.
13:31 asciilifeform want change ? that'll be a new patch, and 1 or more new sigs.
13:31 asciilifeform no changing-of-the-past.
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13:32 erlehmann seems sensible
13:32 asciilifeform not only sensible, but thermonukes away entire, as you see, ~classes~ of misproblem.
13:32 erlehmann yet outputs can change based on e.g. newly introduced inputs
13:33 asciilifeform nope. outputs of presses to a given node on the flow - will NEVER change.
13:33 asciilifeform outputs of presses to ~new~ nodes, will, naturally, give unseen-before output.
13:33 asciilifeform but outputs of presses to OLD nodes -- will give same output 1000 yrs from now, as today.
13:33 asciilifeform this is essential to v.
13:34 asciilifeform immutable past is a prerequisite to ~authenticable~ past, and v gives it.
13:38 erlehmann do you have an opionion on GNU tsort?
13:38 erlehmann from coreutils
13:38 asciilifeform ( what's a 'misproblem' ? let's say it is a problem that only exists because of misapplied concepts earlier 'up the stack' . see also the immortal prof. kokkarinen's 'alien problem', http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-26#934852 thread . )
13:38 a111 Logged on 2014-11-26 01:11 asciilifeform: reminds of ilkka kokkarinen's 'alien problems':
13:39 asciilifeform erlehmann: yes
13:39 erlehmann care to extrapolate your onions?
13:39 asciilifeform erlehmann: 1) i have nfi what it does on corner cases 2) i have nfi how consistent is it across unixen, and how it misbehaves with, e.g., crapolade turdicode characters in the inputs
13:39 asciilifeform gnudiff, i found, in fact DID misbehave, on many a box
13:40 asciilifeform and produced differing orderings depending on the 'charset' set on the machine
13:40 asciilifeform which SHOULD NOT BE A THING
13:40 asciilifeform and i say this as an orc, who uses cyrillic
13:40 asciilifeform MY SHELL IS STILL SET TO THE KING'S ENGLISH
13:40 asciilifeform for fucks sake.
13:41 erlehmann i guess with immutable inputs, redo would not be necessary.
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13:41 asciilifeform certainly not in the form offered.
13:41 asciilifeform and the necessary bits -- reduce to a slightly generalized vtron.
13:52 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> they spent it all on... ethertardium?! << YES!!!
14:05 shinohai Dat nearly 20% drop of ETH in 24 hrs >.>
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~ 1 hours 17 minutes ~
15:22 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674627 << http://pbfcomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/PBF005-Billiards_in_heaven.png
15:22 a111 Logged on 2017-06-26 17:41 erlehmann: i guess with immutable inputs, redo would not be necessary.
15:29 asciilifeform lol
15:31 asciilifeform ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] has quit [shutting down] << lolwat
15:31 phf "[Global Notice] Hi all. We need to take services (NickServ, ChanServ and friends down for some quick database tweaking so they'll be unavailable for a few minutes. I'll update via WALLOPS when completed."
15:34 asciilifeform ahahaha
~ 33 minutes ~
16:07 asciilifeform from earlier, lulz, 'In April 2017, an unexpected and disruptive change was made to the MIT network: the sale of historically MIT-allocated IP address ranges to external entities such as Amazon. The sale wasn't announced to the MIT community until after it had taken effect. '
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16:08 asciilifeform gotta luvv the folx so slow on the uptake, who imagine being in 'a community' while having already been subsumed into usg faceless mass.
16:09 asciilifeform and that 'your' horse is somehow still 'your' AFTER you join kolhoz.
16:17 shinohai http://archive.is/I9uUu #rekt
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16:18 ben_vulpes > sold via OTC over the course of the next month, to ensure it will have a negligible effect on the market
16:18 ben_vulpes k
16:18 ben_vulpes shinohai: what is 'status'?
16:20 shinohai Just another Lame Ethereum ICO that raised millions and now gonna dump to pay for hookers, etc.
16:21 shinohai Apparently they made a "Mobile ethereum interface w/ encrypted messaging"
16:22 shinohai So (signal + ETH - Tor)
16:25 shinohai Plus another fine DDoS https://etherscan.io/txsPending?a=0x331d077518216c07c87f4f18ba64cd384c411f84
~ 1 hours 50 minutes ~
18:15 asciilifeform meanwhile, 'thief cries thief', https://archive.is/vgrDP << organized pantsuit ouster of linus t. slowly crystallizing...
18:16 asciilifeform https://archive.is/7bx0V << upstream in same thread << apparently he tried to draw a line, 'stfu with the monolithic unreadable patches'
~ 45 minutes ~
19:02 phf nah, that's your monthly occurrence.
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~ 44 minutes ~
19:46 mod6 evenin'
~ 1 hours 2 minutes ~
20:49 asciilifeform heya mod6
20:49 mod6 how goes toinght?
20:49 asciilifeform epoxying, i shit thee not, a paid of shoes
20:49 asciilifeform for the 3rd time
20:49 asciilifeform *pair of
20:50 asciilifeform because a) can't be arsed to go to town to get new one b) ain't like you can get nonchinese sandal anyway
20:50 mod6 haha. well, suppose you're getting good re-use out of them.
20:50 asciilifeform still depressing; my emulated mircea_popescu sat on my shoulder invisibly laughing
20:51 mod6 yah, if you want !b, gotta make them yourself, or hire a sandal artisan of sorts.
20:51 mod6 lol
20:51 asciilifeform i suspect he'd laugh even moar heartily if i were sitting and making own shoes
20:52 asciilifeform 'if yer making shoes, you oughta be a shoemaker'
20:52 mod6 aha
20:52 asciilifeform but say i also make own chair. then which must i be... shoe maker, or chair maker..?
20:53 asciilifeform because it isn't as if you can get decent chair here.
20:53 mod6 yeah, everything is made with sawdust and cheap screws & glue.
20:53 trinque gotta wedge the broomstick at the right angle, can sit and sweep simultaneously!
20:53 sina http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674480 << haha savage
20:53 a111 Logged on 2017-06-26 16:32 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674428 << fwiw i carefully read all of it. asciilifeform's verdict: very much a gabriel_laddel-ization of gossipd. does 0 of the necessary work, and drags in 5+GB of liquishit deps (python, sql, some derp's crypto lib.) the amount of this that would have to be rewritten, from the ground, is 100%. not even useful as illustration of anything, because NONE of the actually complicated moving parts of a
20:54 * asciilifeform pictures pogo stick stake
20:54 sina mornin all
20:54 asciilifeform sina: don't be discouraged
20:54 sina not at all sir
20:54 asciilifeform sina: but understand that the problem does not resolve to '200 lines of py' or would have been solved years ago and we'd all be using.
20:54 sina yeah
20:54 asciilifeform phf has a very similar gossipd in commonlisp, for instance
↖
20:54 asciilifeform and iirc trinque had another
20:55 asciilifeform and asciilifeform yet other
20:55 asciilifeform and... who knwos who else
20:55 trinque one's even a hideous bashball
20:55 trinque netcat and everything.
20:55 asciilifeform sina: at least a few folx were playing with very similar things even before mircea_popescu wrote his essay
20:56 sina I honestly didn't make it because I thought it would solve any problem, but only because I saw the spec and happen to be on holidays from work this week, thought it would be a good fun
20:56 sina (and it was so far!)
20:57 asciilifeform sina: one of the things gossipd needs is a constant-time-constant-space rsa. if you don't have one, enemy can derive your privkeys remotely based on timing.
↖
20:57 sina hows all today, is it time to rotate shift mod6?
20:57 asciilifeform sina: i've been writing one, for some months now.
20:57 asciilifeform !#s ffa
20:57 a111 40 results for "ffa", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ffa
20:58 mod6 <+sina> hows all today, is it time to rotate shift mod6? << hows that?
20:58 sina mod6: ah hehe you signed on just before I went to bed last night :P
20:58 mod6 ah, gotcha, hehe.
20:59 sina asciilifeform: can you elaborate on timing? in my impl each peer-pair has its own set of corresponding RSA keys and I was thinking of adding something like, at the end of each session a new keypair is generated and exchanged on each side
21:00 mod6 everytime I think of a shoemaker/cobbler, i think of that character from A Tale Of Two Cities who used to be a Doctor before he did 18 years in the Bastille.
21:00 sina well, not even generated, just assigned
21:00 asciilifeform sina: are you familiar with the concept of timing side channel ?
21:00 sina I am on the general points
21:01 asciilifeform sina: if some % of the time i can determine how long it took you to carry out a secret key op (incl. key generation) i can determine a few bits of key. over time, i get 1/4 of them, and that is == to getting the rest.
21:01 sina but do they not depend on measuring the timing over many operations?
21:01 asciilifeform sina: not necessarily very many.
21:01 sina but >1 ?
21:01 asciilifeform not even necessarily >1.
21:02 sina so my impl doesn't do this currently, but imagine it throws away the key after the session is established, no big deal then
21:02 asciilifeform even 1, cuts the amount of practical work necessary to break your key, considerably.
21:02 asciilifeform sina: again no
21:02 asciilifeform and if you don't understand why, you should not be using rsa
21:02 asciilifeform for one thing, there IS NO SESSION in gossipd (either my concept or either of mircea_popescu's two essays)
↖
21:02 asciilifeform there is rsa-only crypto.
21:03 asciilifeform this means ALL ciphertext is the output of rsa modular exponentiations.
21:03 sina session may be the wrong term. I just mean, in the spec http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/ "III. Gossipd will receive inbound connectionsvii from identified clientsviii and on the basis of that identification produce an encrypted challenge string, which constitutes its response. If the other party responds with the proper challenge string, the connection is established ; otherwise it is
21:03 asciilifeform ( unlike, e.g., gpg, ssl, the rest of the shit soup )
21:03 sina dropped."
21:04 asciilifeform not reusing the keys would do 0
21:04 asciilifeform i break ONE - i break whole chain.
21:04 asciilifeform same statistics apply.
21:06 asciilifeform sina: subject is considerably trickier than charlatans (e.g. schneier) let on. in fact, most of what is available on the net, is deliberate disinfo.
21:06 sina ok fair point, I get the general need for constant time constant space algo regardless of gossipd stuff anyway
21:06 asciilifeform sina: if you've been reading anything other than the logs, you have a great deal of catching up to do.
21:06 asciilifeform ( this should not horrify, but encourage. the logs are a very handy resource. )
21:06 sina I have been reading the logs, agreed they are handy
21:08 asciilifeform sina: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Zy27g/?raw=true << current ffa.
21:09 sina asciilifeform: if I'm not pestering let me throw a couple of questions. in my impl there are two secret operations, 1. key generation 2. challenge decryption. for #1, it runs in a different process on a random basis and marks a portion of the keys generated as bogus (per linked spec). that seems like it should sufficiently obfuscate against timing? for #2 is it possible to do some bogus ops in a similar
21:09 sina vein? e.g. perform 3 parallel decryptions
21:09 asciilifeform sina: this is a good q
21:09 asciilifeform sina: and the answer is, interestingly: no
21:09 asciilifeform ~no~ practical amount of noise adding is enough.
21:10 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-17#1671568 << see also thread
21:10 a111 Logged on 2017-06-17 19:50 asciilifeform: the imho interesting part of this tale is that ~time~ is the most, it turns out, difficult side channel to properly cement shut
21:10 asciilifeform and in particular http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-17#1671581 .
21:10 a111 Logged on 2017-06-17 19:56 asciilifeform: idea of pll is that you can indeed see a lit match from mile away in daylight if you know 'exactly when to look'
21:10 sina another thought, in my impl, even if you broke the key, all this nets you is the ability to have messages delivered to you from a single node
21:11 asciilifeform that's if i break 1
21:11 asciilifeform 1 ephemeral key. say i break the station key.
21:11 asciilifeform ( by timing decrypts of session establish )
21:11 asciilifeform and if i can break 1, can break any and all.
↖
21:11 sina sorry, define "station key"?
21:12 asciilifeform long-term key.
21:14 sina why would there be a long term key? I mean, right now in the impl the process to rotate a key is manual, but if you're using ephemeral key why not just "chain" them in the sense that at the end of the "session" you pass some ciphertext that includes the next ephemeral key, wait for delivery ack and then dump the old key?
21:14 sina so no key is ever retained beyond a single "session"
21:15 asciilifeform i can trivially tell when you've switched keys, strictly by looking at ciphertext ( is how rsa works. )
21:16 asciilifeform if this is a surprise to you -- i recommend getting familiar with the basic arithmetic
21:16 sina yeah no surprise
21:17 sina can I clarify something? when you say gossipd are you assuming that all traffic is enciphered?
21:17 asciilifeform now your homework : prove that an rsa-only channel MUST re-use every key at least once
21:17 asciilifeform unless it sends only 1 message and then both sides call it quits and never speak again.
21:18 sina I think we might be speaking at corss purposes and just wish to clarify that point before proceeding
21:18 asciilifeform sina: yes. and it is not a far assumption, nobody will send plaintext wtf omfg
21:18 asciilifeform sina: why do you think mircea_popescu mentioned rsa in his spec ? to keep the room warm with cpu heat ?
21:19 sina ok fair. see, the spec I was working from it only mentions encryption for the "session establishment" so I assumed that encryption of actual message payloads was to be with out of band encryption
21:19 sina and right now my impl does send everything except the challenge in plaintext!
21:20 asciilifeform wtf is the point of even having the challenge then !
21:20 asciilifeform if enemy can ALTER PLAINTEXT EN ROUTE AT WILL AND LIKEWISE READ ALL OF IT
21:21 sina I assumed it was deedbot style OTP thing
21:21 asciilifeform wtf is the point of writing a proggy that leads to this.
21:21 asciilifeform no, it'd be a nickserv, sina
21:21 asciilifeform 'ohai i authenticated and now lemme say [NSA INSERTS TEXT HERE] sincerely yours, mr.chump'
21:27 sina asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-08#1399525
21:27 a111 Logged on 2016-02-08 00:05 maqp: The point is, unless you encrypt the message, anyone might have created the plaintext
21:27 asciilifeform there is NO reason why enemy should be able to read and alter at will traffic b/w 2 nodes.
21:28 sina I got that impression from reading gossipd logs, obviously I didn't read everything ever because I only learned about the linespeed thing yesterday
21:28 asciilifeform if i want this -- i will use irc.
21:28 asciilifeform as in fact using now.
21:28 asciilifeform irc is exactly 'gossipd without crypto'.
↖
21:28 sina http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-08#1399535
21:28 a111 Logged on 2016-02-08 00:06 mircea_popescu: the only assurance to be had here comes from a gossipd model. where anyone could have written the plaintext, and for all anyone POORLY CONNECTED knows, they probably did.
21:28 asciilifeform you gain NOTHING from the crypto unless it is applied correctly - i.e. to whole channel.
21:29 asciilifeform sina: in the linked thread, mircea_popescu described why he did not want to use rsa ~signatures~
21:29 asciilifeform for gossipd auth
21:29 asciilifeform but instead ~decrypts~
21:29 asciilifeform !#s opposable
21:29 a111 17 results for "opposable", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=opposable
21:29 asciilifeform ^ see also mega-thread re subj more recently
21:29 trinque ^ great threads in there.
21:31 sina http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-07#1399508
21:31 a111 Logged on 2016-02-07 23:57 mircea_popescu: complete anonimity between peers more than one node removed ; complete secrecy outside of the node group ; no integrity or authenticity outside of the wot trust.
21:31 sina perhaps I misread
21:31 asciilifeform but INSIDE - must have integrity.
21:31 asciilifeform or you have irc.
21:31 asciilifeform this is elementary, and the fact that i have to, apparently, explain this, beggars the imagination
21:31 asciilifeform WE ALREADY HAVE IRC!!
21:32 asciilifeform and don't need irc-with-homeopathic-sprinkling-of-rsa for anything.
21:32 asciilifeform (if i can unglue the auth from the payloads, because the latter are plaintext -- IT IS HOMEOPATHIC)
21:33 sina asciilifeform: don't pop a vein, I absolutely get your point, I was trying to explain (erroneous or otherwise) the path walked
21:33 sina again, I'm not proposing my impl as "hey you should use this!", only wanted to ask you some questions re timing
21:35 asciilifeform sina: don't hesitate to ask
21:35 asciilifeform ( asciilifeform or whoever else. )
21:43 sina asciilifeform: how about this simpler model. Nodes only accept connections at interval N seconds, and during time between intervals it is preparing encrypted payload of all messages since last seen for each peer. so when A connects to B and says "Hi, I'm A", B responds with a pre-prepared payload encrypted for As key
21:45 asciilifeform EVERYONE eventually asks this
↖
21:45 asciilifeform re rsa
21:45 asciilifeform answer: no
21:45 sina can I ask how come no?
21:45 asciilifeform the only way to make guaranteed time bound is... constant-time arithmetic
21:46 asciilifeform because if i can make your thing spill out of the time 'box' which you made for it, i get >0 info re your key. again.
21:46 asciilifeform and the only way to make it so that i can't -- and ~probably~ so -- is to do your arithmetic in constant time.
21:46 asciilifeform i.e. no-branches-on-secret-bits.
21:47 asciilifeform *provably
21:47 asciilifeform not probably, lol
21:47 sina any actual practical example of making it spill out of the time box? lets say two independent processes, one is preparing the payloads and putting them in an "outbox"
↖
21:47 asciilifeform understand: if your scheme cannot be proven to work : it does not work.
21:48 asciilifeform say your time box is 1s
21:48 asciilifeform while your rsa, for sake of argument, is 200-300ms long.
21:49 asciilifeform now at some point your smm bios kicks in and spends 700ms adjusting fan speed. and i happen to know that this happens every whatever many seconds.
21:49 asciilifeform now i know that a certain % of the time your 'box' is spilled out of.
21:49 asciilifeform and it is == as not having the box.
21:49 asciilifeform if i have this knowledge.
21:50 sina I'm not sure I explained correctly. Please let me try one more time.
21:50 asciilifeform arbitrary 'don't report the answer for T units of time' doesn't work, because you have no hard assurance of no spill.
↖
21:50 asciilifeform certainly not on a pc.
21:51 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F26286E344AAD5DAC3259412DFD76A915DC0CA95AE6C819CC7F33B760D99DD19 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1593...2599 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '62.128.149.20 (ssh-rsa key from 62.128.149.20 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www.ecg.co.uk. GB)
21:51 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F26286E344AAD5DAC3259412DFD76A915DC0CA95AE6C819CC7F33B760D99DD19 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1542...2949 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '62.128.149.20 (ssh-rsa key from 62.128.149.20 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (www.ecg.co.uk. GB)
21:51 asciilifeform sina: making 'constant time rsa' by trying to bury the rsa in a fixed 'box' of time, only works if you can guarantee LOWER bound of how long the rsa ops (ALL of them, till the end of time) take, as well as UPPER
21:52 asciilifeform UPPER as well as LOWER, that is
21:52 asciilifeform you gotta say 'it will return answer in EXACTLY t units of time, no less AND NO MORE'
21:52 asciilifeform and the way to provably do this, is method called 'constant time arithmetic'
21:52 asciilifeform illustrated in the earlier link.
21:53 sina Imagine two independent processes. Process #1 is going through the list of peers and generating encrypted payload for unique peer key since last seen. When the payload is generated it places in outbox. Process #2 is running every N interval (1s example sure) to accept connections and deliver payloads from outbox. If for some reason Process #1 doesn't complete operation in time, it simply appears as if no
21:53 sina messages are to be delivered for a given peer or set of peers.
21:54 asciilifeform already you have made an assumption that is false on all extant hardware
21:54 sina which is?
21:54 asciilifeform it is not possible to make guaranteed-independent-timewise processes
21:54 asciilifeform on a pc
21:54 asciilifeform 1 ) you might have a box with 1 cpu
21:54 asciilifeform 2) you might have a box with 2+ cpu where the scheduler puts both of your processes on 1
21:54 asciilifeform 3) cache exists.
21:55 asciilifeform and memory accesses will take variant time based on recent operations, by any and all threads.
21:55 asciilifeform on any and all cpu cores.
21:55 sina fine, what if we assume two independent computers
↖
21:55 asciilifeform describe what they do, and how connected
21:56 sina same as above, but each computer houses 1 process respectively, connected over ethernet or whatever
21:56 asciilifeform if they are connected, and communicate, they are not time-independent
21:56 asciilifeform elementarily
21:57 asciilifeform it doesn't matter what they are connected with.
21:57 asciilifeform if you're sending bits from one to another, and using crypto that branches-on-secret-bits -- you are vulnerable.
21:57 asciilifeform this is like the perpetuum mobile. you cannot argue your way out of fundamental constraint.
21:59 * asciilifeform bbl.
21:59 sina vulnerable to what, exactly, is the question? I am struggling to see how timing can be ascertained from that kind of model, but it's only a thought experiment so I can steal your brain juices
~ 45 minutes ~
22:45 * mircea_popescu waves
22:45 sina howdy sir
22:46 mircea_popescu nb!
22:49 * mircea_popescu confirms that indeed js-of-mp and mp-en-managua are legitimate mps
22:53 sina have fun in Managua?
22:54 mircea_popescu after a fashion!
22:59 asciilifeform wb mircea_popescu !
22:59 mircea_popescu why ty
23:00 mod6 Hi mircea_popescu
23:00 mircea_popescu hola
23:00 sina alrighty, gonna go do some human stuff. have a good week all!
23:02 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-25#1674362 << speaking of bigots : so i'm walking with girl through utter shithole, true poverty area. stench of sewage in the air, houses made out of $200 in materials and so on. i spot a rabid dog by that sure sign of drooping salivation, so i go in between and keep my eye on it.
23:02 a111 Logged on 2017-06-25 22:30 erlehmann: BingoBoingo medusa magazine seems pretty reasonable, indeed https://medusamagazine.com/youre-a-bigot-if-you-wouldnt-have-sex-with-a-gay-friend
23:03 mircea_popescu some idle kids playing with rocks notice and one yells out "don bigote! don bigote! no muerde el perro!"
23:03 mircea_popescu and yes, the root is common.
23:03 asciilifeform lol!!
23:04 mod6 haha wth?
23:04 asciilifeform did the kidz also droop salivate
23:04 mircea_popescu tis true. bigots = fixated people with beards you couldn't convince of your reasonable position, such as "the rabid dog doesn't bite" on the grounds of it not having bit yet, or "marrying your first cousin is fine" on the basis of hey, cunt that doesn't scare me!
↖
23:04 asciilifeform or notyet
23:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform notyet.
23:05 mircea_popescu i expect the dysentery to get them first though, judging by certain anatomic details.
23:06 asciilifeform shit where-they-stood a la africa ?
23:06 mircea_popescu i don't think so.
23:06 asciilifeform which detail then
23:06 mircea_popescu ah ah. too much abdomen for how sad their ribcages were.
23:06 asciilifeform ah so you meant dystrophy, not dysentery, neh
23:07 asciilifeform 'auschwitz belly'
23:07 mircea_popescu well, various distended bellies.
23:08 mircea_popescu anyway, back to sewage : the thing civilised people generally fail to appreciate is just how insistently shit sticks to human agglomerations.
23:08 mircea_popescu it dun wanna go so easily, that's fo sho.
23:09 asciilifeform more of a case of finely evolved nose. we can smell it at nearly ppb.
23:10 mircea_popescu that, also.
23:12 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674379 << introductions aren't intended to be handled by gossipd. the correct way to do this is for me to say "add 8A56264EAD0BC4BD9CD7AC0086B488AB sina" which is a legitimate pubkey of your gossipd, AND for you to go whatever re mine. then they can talk, change keys etc. not before./
↖
23:12 a111 Logged on 2017-06-26 01:02 sina: but this presents a chicken/egg problem, where the peer "initiating" the addition will need to then advertise that key to the other peer and wait for a key back, and then initiate an update to the peer data to add in the advertised pubkey
23:13 mircea_popescu gossipd should hot be able to discover peers. (if you think about it, the ability to discover peers is another way to say "leaking data").
23:13 asciilifeform 'a discovered peer' == 'a sybil'
23:14 asciilifeform sorta like 'shit stuck to bottom of shoe' is 'shit', and never snack
23:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform see, kinda what i meant yest. while he's actually trying to implement, he discovers these things. the result may not be usable, but its building will have been useful. otherwise his only option is to nod along, not really comprehending what he's agreeing with, or to "rebel", and have "his own opinion", except also not really comprehending what he's talking about.
23:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: which is why i said to d00d, 'don't be disheartened '
23:16 mircea_popescu which is why we agree!
23:21 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674422 << consider that the damage you already did to modern man's most important joint is permanent. do not add.
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23:21 a111 Logged on 2017-06-26 05:39 ben_vulpes: on the "laptops suck" thread, now that i'm using an adult workstation most of the time, my hands start hurting after a bare thirty minutes on a 13" laptop kb
23:22 asciilifeform crapple kbd is egregiously, insidiously deadly, has ~0 'give', is rather like pounding a table
23:22 asciilifeform all day long...
23:22 mod6 it's the worst.
23:22 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674428 << i'll do this tomorrow, too displaced right nao for such werks.
23:22 a111 Logged on 2017-06-26 09:58 sina: if anyone wants to play https://github.com/sinner-/gossipd
23:23 mod6 i really like the new kb i've been using. took a little while to get use to, but hands feel good after all day typing.
23:23 asciilifeform mod6: which is this
23:23 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674439 >> ahahaha
23:23 a111 Logged on 2017-06-26 12:37 erlehmann: sina have you checked all your input against a formal grammar today?
23:24 mod6 concave job. 'kinesis advantage 2'
↖
23:25 asciilifeform mod6: even rubbish membrane kbd that came with my 486 -- beats crapple lappy
23:25 mod6 yeah, those are, like you said, like pounding on concrete
23:25 asciilifeform the latter must've been designed as an active fuckyou to people who actually enter text
23:26 mod6 mhmm
23:26 mircea_popescu you're prolly supposed to speak it or who knows what shambling idiocy.
23:26 asciilifeform hard to picture such exquisite torture implement arising through mere happenstance
23:27 mod6 yeah, seems like hardly an accident. supposed to talk to the goddamn thing. as if.
23:28 mircea_popescu http://qntra.net/2017/06/supreme-court-lifts-lesser-court-injunctions-against-trump-travel-bans/ << i take it asciilifeform had no comment ? :D
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~ 19 minutes ~
23:48 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674488 <<< for some reason the illustration featured a hercules, which is a prop not a jet, but w/e.
23:48 a111 Logged on 2017-06-26 16:35 trinque: clearly needs to upgrade to the f35, it's 19 better.
23:49 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674489 << sounds entirely like The Drepperization. which is very much the only american technology style left.
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23:49 a111 Logged on 2017-06-26 16:35 asciilifeform: 'Ever since IS&T started to undergo "The Transformation", there has been a deliberate and systematic attempt to change Computing at MIT for the worse. Services that have been relied on for years have been discontinued and turned down, frequently without notice. Infrastructure critical to running MIT has been outsourced to cloud services during "emergency maintenance". Most of these changes had minimal impact on students and faculty,
23:50 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674495 << it's a... haaaard....lyffe!
23:50 a111 Logged on 2017-06-26 16:38 asciilifeform: they spent it all on... ethertardium?!
23:53 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674511 <<< sadly this question is not unlike asking "has multiplication ever actually worked".
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23:53 a111 Logged on 2017-06-26 16:53 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674434 << has hyperthreading ever actually worked ? ( see also... http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/hyper-threading )
23:59 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674534 << you can definitely make this in an evening by simply translating the extant lisp/python iirc impls.
23:59 a111 Logged on 2017-06-26 17:07 erlehmann: i am willing to abandon my redo efforts if v maketron suits my needs better. does there exist a v implementation in <500 lines of shell?
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