Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-07-04 | 2017-07-06 → ↓
00:29 mircea_popescu lol!
~ 31 minutes ~
01:01 mod6 HEH
~ 24 minutes ~
01:25 deedbot http://thewhet.net/2017/yankee-doodle-henry-part-vi/ << The Whet - Yankee Doodle Henry, Part VI
~ 4 hours 23 minutes ~
05:48 * sina waves
05:49 sina evening tmsr
05:49 sina best twitter quote I saw today: "US is free as in mattress"
~ 5 hours 29 minutes ~
11:18 mircea_popescu sina i confess i don't get it. free mattress ?
11:19 mircea_popescu like what, the discarded mattresses people locate half a mile out of town or so to fuck randos on ?
11:25 phf doing full type annotation with (mp #*1010101001010011110000101000000000001101011100000001 (expt 2 14)) drops the time from 11s to 7s
11:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: presumably like discarded mattress in a rubbish heap
11:25 mircea_popescu ic
11:26 phf but requires a handful of unsightly (the ...) in a few places, so not really worth it
11:27 mircea_popescu phf worth to have, though.
11:27 mircea_popescu for typemaps and whatnot
11:30 asciilifeform * sageprobes has quit (Client Quit) << aww
11:39 phf dat, err := ioutil.ReadFile("./gpl-2.0.txt")
11:39 phf message := flag.String("message", string(dat), "message")
11:39 asciilifeform lolwat
11:39 phf sina: is that ^ a correct method?
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11:40 phf !~later tell sina http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-05#1679215
11:40 a111 Logged on 2017-07-05 15:39 phf: sina: is that ^ a correct method?
11:40 phf hmm
11:40 phf is something supposed to happen when i later tell?
11:40 phf asciilifeform: i don't know how to go
11:41 shinohai phf there was a space before your !~
11:41 asciilifeform phf: why would you even. what's next, building the microshit F# one ?
11:41 phf but i'm trying to reproduce "single threaded mpfhf-golang can provide a 32-bit mpfhf hash of GPLv2 in ~7m" on my machine
11:50 phf oh flag, lets you pass this stuff as a command line argument.. i guess this approach works too. i'm not sure why i can't just do message = string(dat) but i'm too lazy to figure it out
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11:51 phf asciilifeform: maybe if someone inwot were to build one, i'd consider it, at least
11:51 asciilifeform would consider java also ? how about nodejs ?
11:51 phf yes
11:51 asciilifeform or would alternatively consider adjusting wot.
11:51 phf not for the offense of using a heretic language
11:52 asciilifeform it ain't about crud languages
11:52 asciilifeform but camel's noses
11:52 asciilifeform i.e. introduction of genderfuckery crapolade into tmsr infrastructure
11:52 phf well, i agree that particular choice signifies
11:57 phf phuctor still in python i take it?
11:57 asciilifeform the www face of it is.
11:57 asciilifeform and quite a misery.
11:57 * phf cackles
11:59 asciilifeform it is the most laboriously dysfunctional proggy i had ever written, it is my albatross
11:59 mircea_popescu lol i was thinking, "original author hates lisp for some reason" but then i passed for it being too cruel
11:59 asciilifeform it gets a dedicated physical console here, and almost every week i gotta restart it by hand, see wtf , why is db gummed up etc
12:01 mircea_popescu phf no period, it's not " !" it's "!~"
12:01 mircea_popescu a too late soz
12:02 mircea_popescu asciilifeform can't keep a list of verboten camel noses.
12:04 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in practice nobody needs to keep exhaustive list, the nose suffices
12:04 asciilifeform if it stinks of sv -- to the furnace with it.
12:04 mircea_popescu cunt stinks of sv.
12:04 asciilifeform goland -- stinks.
12:04 asciilifeform *golang
12:04 mircea_popescu you saw that movie, incidentally ? the bad redo of le nom de la rose ?
12:04 mircea_popescu with teh credible character who hated laughter ?
12:04 asciilifeform sure did
12:04 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> sina i confess i don't get it. free mattress ? << disease vector metaphor
12:05 mircea_popescu it's not a tenable position. even if laughter was in aristotle. because, again, and i mean this most literally, the smell of cv is the smell of cunt.
12:05 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo ah ah
12:06 mircea_popescu hm, let's redo that for spealing.
12:06 mircea_popescu it's not a tenable position. even if laughter was not in aristotle. because, again, and i mean this most literally, the smell of sv is the smell of cunt.
12:07 asciilifeform again , it ain't about crud languages. it is about systems, and people. if, e.g., sina, wants to ADOPT golang, and maintain it, such that nothing that happens in tmsr is EVER subject to the whims of genderfuckers at google hq -- no python3isms, no 'language is evolving', no 'you need gcc7 to build this', no 'we no longer support ppc and 386, fuckyou' -- then it can be considered
12:07 mircea_popescu yup.
12:07 asciilifeform otherwise it is a camel's nose, an infiltration of enemy.
12:07 mircea_popescu camel toe.
12:08 mircea_popescu asciilifeform what's the problem with the traditional "use it while it works and then shoot her in a parking lot and leave her there to bleed a la jane fonda" ?
12:08 asciilifeform interestingly 'golang' is a pretty straight ripoff of 'D' (by digital mars co.)
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12:09 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the problem is that shooting the jane fonda doesn't cure the syphilis and hiv.
12:09 asciilifeform you get to live with it.
12:09 mircea_popescu the reason it's in discusison today is the manyear in engineering hours they put in to fix the hardware impedance
12:09 asciilifeform the way asciilifeform is still living with python
12:09 mircea_popescu so no, they could have picked forth and it'd have been trhe same thing.
12:09 asciilifeform mno. a forth is a few Kb and 0 deps.
12:09 mircea_popescu asciilifeform from experience men don't care about debilitating disease, just dun like the whinery.
12:09 asciilifeform and in fact doesn't need 'thousand man years to fix the mismatches' because it HAS no mismatches with the iron.
12:10 mircea_popescu try the D and see it take twice as loing ?
12:11 asciilifeform if speed is all you want, asm beckons.
12:12 mircea_popescu speed was the point in discussion, not all i want.
12:16 asciilifeform what we have in the golang thing, is a loaded camel for carrying multi-GB of heathen liquishit into tmsr intellectual infrastructure .
12:16 mircea_popescu one needn't fear the smell of cunt in his room.
12:16 asciilifeform i will not be 'adopting' and maintaining it and its deps, and so far no one has stepped up to the job
12:18 asciilifeform because it is a ludicrous proposition -- massive ball of shit, that makes gcc look compact and fits-in-head.
12:18 asciilifeform and the gain -- quite illusory.
12:18 mircea_popescu i had no idea anyone was even contemplationg that.
12:18 mircea_popescu let's get back to shoot her and let her to bleed out in a parking lot.
12:19 asciilifeform lulzily, i am not averse to experimenting with heathen whatevers, i even have an isolated leprosorium for infected winblowz.
12:20 mircea_popescu so then what are you talking about ?
12:20 asciilifeform but to date i have not even succeeded in building clang ! despite trying a number of times, because the lattice fpga thing needs it
12:20 asciilifeform it wants whole planet of liquishit, that apparently one is expected to simply get in binary (?) and swallow whole
12:20 mircea_popescu so cameltoelang ?
12:21 asciilifeform i keep having the thought that we had this thread already, in the past..
12:22 asciilifeform ( found, so far, only the 'baited hook', http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-19#1468576 )
12:22 a111 Logged on 2016-05-19 15:31 mircea_popescu: anyway, Framedragger golang is not liked here because we don't own it, and we don't like usg.google more than we like usg.anything, and because it seems quite well engineered to work as a baited hook for the usg chump works.
12:23 mircea_popescu sure.
12:25 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-19#1468551 << possibly here
12:25 a111 Logged on 2016-05-19 15:22 asciilifeform: golang --> straight to furnace.
12:26 trinque asciilifeform: still gotta let newbs fuck around / fuck up or you get a generation of idiot puritans, and nobody ever learns anything again.
12:26 mircea_popescu ^
12:26 asciilifeform let'em.
12:26 asciilifeform in cobol, even, if they feel like.
12:26 trinque can then point / laugh / educate and everyone's the better for it.
12:26 mircea_popescu asciilifeform here';s the thing : i didn't get that impression from what you were saying. and the substance of a scam is when the reader doesn't get that impression from the copy.
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12:27 mircea_popescu it's a dangerous way to work.
12:28 mircea_popescu i can sort-of decrypt the deadpan rhetorical overstatement to the point of absurdity device you practice about 2/3 of the time or so. but i'm a fucking trained decoder and honestly i dunno if there's another alive.
12:29 asciilifeform the way i see it, it is the duty of a serious n00b , who wants to become an adult practitioner of whatever black art , to learn a human lang like french, english, german, etc , rather than to expect the learned folx to learn his piglang, quechua, whichever...
12:30 mircea_popescu and what is harappan warrior to do, die ?
12:30 * trinque agrees, but arrived here with python, wrote a deedbot
12:30 asciilifeform either kill the funny looking white invader -- or learn his tongue, yes
12:30 trinque learned, wrote next thing in lisp
12:31 mircea_popescu asciilifeform so you could never everr, no matter what, go into their harappan little huts and lift the beaded clothes to find harappan cunt, and then explain to your host, "well, it's ok for a coupla hours i guess, but i wouldn't live here. BECAUSE..."
12:31 asciilifeform trinque: understand, asciilifeform's barf is not in response to 'd00d wrote a proggy in piglang' but to the notion that it is perhaps a thing to be considered for serious deployment, and an experiment that ought to be replicated by other folx who do not normally keep piglang on their iron
12:32 mircea_popescu no such thing was notioned other than in asciilifeform 's own head. it's not present in conversation, not even for the trivial "alf put it there to have a rant basis"
12:32 trinque I think that's the distinction between youth and wisdom, and youth is *meant* to go try to die, and see if it doesn't.
12:32 mircea_popescu moreover a large part of fun consists of doing stupid shit.
12:33 asciilifeform mircea_popescu, trinque: problem , imho, falls into the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674857 class.
12:33 a111 Logged on 2017-06-27 03:04 mircea_popescu: tis true. bigots = fixated people with beards you couldn't convince of your reasonable position, such as "the rabid dog doesn't bite" on the grounds of it not having bit yet, or "marrying your first cousin is fine" on the basis of hey, cunt that doesn't scare me!
12:33 * mircea_popescu does stupid shit all the time.
12:33 mircea_popescu like, for instance, talking that walk in the first place.
12:33 mircea_popescu you ever visited a brothel asciilifeform ?
12:33 asciilifeform nope
12:34 mircea_popescu because you're afraid you might die ?
12:34 asciilifeform again nope
12:34 asciilifeform just never met an appetizing one, yet.
12:34 mircea_popescu sooo then, you understand golang also.
12:34 mircea_popescu i don't imagien you're picketing brothels.
12:35 asciilifeform brothels ain't an organized effort to take a massive shit in my fits-in-headization of the comp.
12:35 mircea_popescu orly ?
12:36 asciilifeform rly
12:36 asciilifeform no moar so than bakeries, or cement factories.
12:36 mircea_popescu so what you're saying is that if you were a canon of the town church, you WOULD picket them ?
12:36 asciilifeform ( i have not ever visited a cement plant in person yet either )
12:36 asciilifeform i dun get it
12:36 mircea_popescu i have.
12:37 mircea_popescu but anyway, there's really no way to run for oneself. take jurov for instance : years later he's still struggling to come to terms with the specific portions of socialism he can't let go of. if people end up taking teh bait and going to bury themselv es ion google for the rest of their life, what exactly was lost ?
12:37 mircea_popescu win-win as they say.
12:38 asciilifeform very 'calvin' pov here, neh
12:38 mircea_popescu it is.
12:38 asciilifeform 'if d00d fell into sin, he was already hellbound'
12:38 asciilifeform i dun subscribe.
12:38 mircea_popescu the limit of what you can do for others is show.
12:38 mircea_popescu you can't save another.
12:38 asciilifeform now this is so.
12:39 asciilifeform i regard my duty of 'showing' to be fulfilled, when i state, without any strong emotion, that i will not run golang, nor encourage others to do so.
12:39 asciilifeform nor will 'aid and abet'.
12:39 trinque in order to have the human machine operate in self-sorting mode, can't have blanket prohibitions, or as mp said http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-11#1641810
12:39 a111 Logged on 2017-04-11 00:19 mircea_popescu: lobbes see, because they made the mistake of banning things instead of simply banning stupid.
12:39 mircea_popescu i don't, because it's meaningless as such. but fulfillment is a long way
12:39 trinque meanwhile, dog has been living with "put everything in my mouth" for how many million years, still here
12:40 mircea_popescu also developed a taste for own shit in the process.
12:40 mircea_popescu as one'd have to (children also have it, for the same reason.)
12:42 trinque not saying we want to take up turd-munching, but that "no system of global prohibition" can handle even it, easily
12:44 asciilifeform dunno how we ended up discussion 'prohibitions' -- asciilifeform hasn't the power or desire to confiscate d00d's keyboard for churning out whatever liquishit.
12:44 mircea_popescu because http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-05#1679297
12:44 a111 Logged on 2017-07-05 16:26 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here';s the thing : i didn't get that impression from what you were saying. and the substance of a scam is when the reader doesn't get that impression from the copy.
12:45 asciilifeform but just as honest surgeon will not point to bangladeshis drinking from rivers of shit and call it 'alternate hygiene, just as good' -- i also will not.
12:45 mircea_popescu this is at a considerable distance from what you actually said though.
12:46 asciilifeform i dun see it.
12:46 mircea_popescu well lessee here.
12:48 mircea_popescu what's the alfhf that goes from S = "phf: why would you even." to H = "just as honest surgeon will not point to bangladeshis drinking from rivers of shit and call it 'alternate hygiene, just as good' -- i also will not" ?
12:49 asciilifeform i dun see the disconnect.
12:49 mircea_popescu so they are ~the same thing ?
12:49 asciilifeform as i see it yes
12:49 mircea_popescu do you understand why ahm im sorry. do you have a working theory as to why the bangladeshis are drinking river of shit ?
12:50 asciilifeform orthogonal to the fact of them drinking it
12:50 mircea_popescu it is ?
12:50 asciilifeform it is.
12:50 mircea_popescu so they are devoid of agency ?
12:50 asciilifeform poor hygiene is not necessarily chosen
12:50 asciilifeform ( e.g. consider auschwitz )
12:50 mircea_popescu sooo then... you DO see why they would ?
12:51 asciilifeform which is why observation is not about the drinkers of shit, but re clean-shaved western idiots who point and call 'alternate hygiene, just as good if not better than ours'
12:51 mircea_popescu but where did this occur ?
12:51 * asciilifeform screws in fresh gas mask filter
12:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: where i ( and , as in linked threads, in the past, mircea_popescu also ) observe that golang is not 'simply another prog lang' but a carefully built intellectual gluetrap for the naive and energetic
12:53 mircea_popescu aha.
12:53 asciilifeform and the thing about glue traps, is that 'entry is a buck, exit -- two'
12:53 trinque meaning no disrespect to sina (and I figure he knows this from output) his pronouncements are not going to have the same effect on tmsr as a Lord's will
12:54 mircea_popescu asciilifeform and so the quality and composition of glue therefore can never be ascertained ?
12:54 trinque said himself he's doing it to learn and so on
12:54 trinque meanwhile what Lord is going to fear that a student's folly will affect anything but himself
12:54 mircea_popescu you know guns kill people and yet i being a people still know how they work and even took one apart once. as opposed to running in screaming terror
12:54 mircea_popescu like a "woman".
12:55 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it certainly oughta. but this was not the light in which i saw the thread.
12:55 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: y'know, toxicologists who insist on personally tasting every sample, generally do not have long, illustrious career
12:56 trinque ridiculous comparision, they *test each
12:56 mircea_popescu but phf has certainly earned himself the right to make that call ?
12:56 asciilifeform sure.
12:56 mircea_popescu so if he is legitimately bothered by "wtf, does this EVEN REALLY work faster ?" and he goes to look into it, why are you alarmed ?
12:56 mircea_popescu i'm glad to hear.
12:57 mircea_popescu because yes, someone certainly oughta and i couldn't in good conscience tell someone to go do it.
12:57 asciilifeform because if i see an l1 fella eating rat poison, even a very very sweet one, i'd like him to at least be aware of what it is he is doing
12:57 asciilifeform rather than 'hey this is great candy, but why do i feel funny'
12:58 mircea_popescu i am pretty sure he knows what golang is.
12:58 asciilifeform but does the n00b know.
12:58 mircea_popescu but you were talking to phf
12:58 asciilifeform about sina's proggy.
12:58 asciilifeform not, note, phf's.
12:58 mircea_popescu nevertheless.
13:02 asciilifeform ( somewhat unrelatedly , i find the fact of google and crapple each adopting a proprietary shitlang, to be a fascinating thing from 'labour politics' pov -- was it an attempt to put a damper on 'poaching' of workers ? or something else. )
13:02 mircea_popescu on some level i am sure it was. not just the management siude though.
13:03 mircea_popescu labour forcve stability works both ways, the drones wish security just as much as the dronemasters do.
13:03 mircea_popescu this is the fundamental force fucking up it corps in the first place.
13:03 mircea_popescu marginal bob at google figures if there's a shitlang involved that gives him some protective moat agfainst above average fred.
13:04 mircea_popescu meanwhile bob's boss bob figures shitlang being involbved protects him from his bobs going to fred's start-up
13:04 mircea_popescu and so on
13:04 mircea_popescu tivoization of heads, and the tivoheads are oif course lapping it up.,
13:04 mircea_popescu because, again, iot's not the martians that did it.
13:05 mircea_popescu there's piles of stupid everywhere principally because stupid piles so well. which is it's only property, really.
13:06 mircea_popescu like prions, stupid is that thing which has no properties besides piling well, and thereby accumulates.
13:07 asciilifeform http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3134574475962391@naggum.no.html << oblig naggum on subj
13:08 asciilifeform '...C/C++ are quite interesting languages from a marxist point of view, too (it being May 1 and all): they are so bad that any professional who wants to do interesting work needs to learn new tools all the time and have the employer pay for it. the means of production are thus removed from the hands of the owners into the hands of the workers in a very new way. if the employers were any smart, they would not use languages that remo
13:08 asciilifeform ved _all_ their investments in their people this way, because it is as unhealthy for a market with disproportionate power in the hands of employees as it is with disproportionate power in the hands of employers...'
13:08 mircea_popescu (and yes, that's also why their ~only concern is "how to reduce friction" ie make sure it piles as well as it posdsiblu could". gendercommits and nochildleftbehinds etc all follow.
13:08 mircea_popescu i don't mean the, give poor kids a free delousing and glasses part of no kid left behind. i mean the make smart kids dumber part.
13:09 asciilifeform it isn't clear to me that these can be cut
13:09 mircea_popescu which is these ?
13:09 asciilifeform 'delousing' and 'procrust'
13:09 mircea_popescu of course they can.
13:09 mircea_popescu da fuck is this chan if it is not that ?
13:10 asciilifeform hey i did not say 'they cannot be cut'
13:10 mircea_popescu and ftr if it's not that i want no part of it.
13:10 asciilifeform but that it remains an open problem.
13:10 mircea_popescu which is a good chunk of why mp doesn't idle in a buncha chans
13:10 mircea_popescu asciilifeform in the sense nutrition remains open problem.
13:11 asciilifeform aha, or transportation.
13:11 mircea_popescu right.
13:11 asciilifeform ( i.e. not a problem that reasonably gets a final solution, but rather shifting sets of engineering compromises )
13:12 mircea_popescu there's fundamental principles that are known
13:13 mircea_popescu for transport - 3rd law. for this, wot. etcetera.
13:15 asciilifeform ( found -- possibly -- the thread, though it wasn't re proglangs : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-28#1620042 )
13:15 a111 Logged on 2017-02-28 14:34 asciilifeform: sorta was the original point of a school, neh. a reasonably safe reservation where 'chix who have not yet learned to wash' can lean to wash, without creating dangers to self and others.
13:15 mircea_popescu the danger from reading teh torah comes from trying to read it alone, not from trying to read it at all.
13:15 mircea_popescu the wanna-be shards, similarily.
13:16 asciilifeform tru.
~ 15 minutes ~
13:31 ben_vulpes in shitantium lols, i submitted my nfc train fare card for inspection this am. portoscanner a: couldn't read through the leater of my wallet, b: came out of the fare inspector's pocket hung, c: unhung only to die for lack of batteries.
13:31 asciilifeform batteries?!
13:32 mircea_popescu too many power outages in the best possible socialism
13:32 mircea_popescu everyone's stuck with batteries.
13:32 ben_vulpes "sorry for the inconvenience sir, you have a good day now. you know they keep saying there's a patch coming that'll improve battery life for these things, but i haven't seen it yet." "heh yeah and i don't beliueve that it'll work."
13:32 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: it's a handheld
13:32 asciilifeform aaah aahh the ~reader~
13:33 ben_vulpes because turnstiles are racist or i don't even know what led to the system designed such that anyone can just wander onto the trains
13:36 asciilifeform we have this type of train here also, asciilifeform + pet ended up with free ride because conductor could not be arsed..
13:37 trinque ben_vulpes: I dunno that I ever once paid for a train or streetcar in pdx
13:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform do they do the "i am a black man fighting THE man therefore only white people gotta pay" thing ?
13:38 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: apparently not here!
13:38 mircea_popescu seems moar like urban legend than anything
13:38 asciilifeform now the ~reverse~ -- could be
13:40 ben_vulpes trinque: try riding ~every day, the statistics will catch up to you.
13:40 mircea_popescu he can't ride every day the truck parking at pdx statioons sucks
13:41 ben_vulpes it is though, obvious transit welfare for the homeless. "no i don't have id, no i don't have a place of residence, good luck getting the fine out of me"
13:41 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: outskirts of town have plentiful parking lots even trinque 's truck could fit into
13:41 ben_vulpes primo spots reserved for charging 'lectrical cars tho, natch
13:42 trinque gotta put a railgun in teh bed, charge that
13:42 mircea_popescu lol
13:46 ben_vulpes heh or just have a dummy cable snake out from under the hood
13:47 ben_vulpes confuse everyone
~ 4 hours 5 minutes ~
17:52 asciilifeform in other noose, asciilifeform found that mircea_popescu's hash has an upper bound of...
17:52 asciilifeform O(N^2).
17:52 asciilifeform and betcha mircea_popescu already found the proof of this.
17:54 asciilifeform ( the average-case is considerably ~below~ N^2. the reason for this will be apparent when reading the proof. )
17:57 asciilifeform this thing wouldv'e made a great olympiad problem, midnightmagic
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17:57 asciilifeform ggerrrrr
17:57 asciilifeform mircea_popescu,
17:57 * asciilifeform goes to shoot his irc client
18:00 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> and the thing about glue traps, is that 'entry is a buck, exit -- two' << Perhaps go and take local pesticide applicator licensing class? May improve your metaphors?
18:00 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i'ma learn from the greats, e.g., BingoBoingo , instead!11
18:01 asciilifeform and yes american ver. of the saying would probably be the thing where 'roach motel! check in, but never check out'
18:04 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> the danger from reading teh torah comes from trying to read it alone, not from trying to read it at all. << Same problems occurs with reading "Big Book" alone. People read selectively and get weird ideas. Hence the whole idea of sponsorship, tour guide through the text and steps.
18:05 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: i'ma learn from the greats, e.g., BingoBoingo , instead!11 << Mebbe an enjoyable part time gig comes out of it? Spend some weekends delousing locals? Covnert difference to benjies and ensuitcase for flight day?
18:06 asciilifeform 'doctor, first delouse thyself' or how did it go.
18:06 asciilifeform for now asciilifeform is satisfied with having solved own verminiferous problems.
18:06 BingoBoingo <ben_vulpes> because turnstiles are racist or i don't even know what led to the system designed such that anyone can just wander onto the trains << St Louis trains are like this, finally hit critical mass because "only white man pays" has turned train into war zone
18:07 BingoBoingo Until the next mammal with tenacity
18:07 BingoBoingo As opposed to Tenacity(TM)(R) which is great herbicide for blanching undesirable grassy weeds from cool season lawn.
~ 20 minutes ~
18:28 asciilifeform re mircea_popescu's hash, another observation : it is not ever necessary to actually invert S. ( i will leave the reason for this, again, as an exercise to readers )
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~ 26 minutes ~
18:54 asciilifeform and incidentally the bound on operations also binds S ( which grows either once or none times per. )
18:57 asciilifeform so it looks like the current algo lacks the properties 4 and 5 from mircea_popescu's article.
18:58 asciilifeform ( he will probably disagree, and say 'tight bound is not same as 'say how much memory and cpu'... but fact is, this is not quite the unpredictable game-of-life-style automaton contemplated earlier. )
18:58 asciilifeform *upper bound
18:58 asciilifeform not tight.
~ 35 minutes ~
19:34 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-05#1679457 << twas really your idea to begin with.
19:34 a111 Logged on 2017-07-05 21:57 asciilifeform: this thing wouldv'e made a great olympiad problem, midnightmagic
19:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform a binding of 8mb for 1024 bytes of M seems perfectly fine to me,
19:38 mircea_popescu "unbound within engineering constraints".,
19:41 mircea_popescu it's certainly not practical to simply say "i will just allocate lenM ** 2 bytes for s whenever hashing"
~ 44 minutes ~
20:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: where do you get this ?
20:26 asciilifeform S grows by 1 or 0 bits per cycle.
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20:27 mircea_popescu the bottle, apparently.
20:27 asciilifeform a cycle ( by mircea_popescu's own proof from other day ) is repeated ( i.e. rewound ) 1-2 times
20:27 * asciilifeform just came back with new bottle incidentally
20:28 mircea_popescu anyway, yes. bound.
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20:29 asciilifeform thing is, i'm quite sure that a hashtron satisfying the original ('make it maximally nasty, with provably no respite') condition CAN be made. i'ma come back to it when i wrap up my current megabacklog.
20:30 asciilifeform possibly something based on travelling salesman or similar.
20:30 mircea_popescu not too sure what your idea of maximally nasty is, but your complaint yest was already that this is unpracticably demanding.
20:30 asciilifeform yes but this could have a use !
20:31 mircea_popescu you want to make things that can't be used ?
20:31 asciilifeform mircea_popescu got me thinkin', about uses.
20:31 asciilifeform 'can't be used' is a flexible concept...
20:32 mircea_popescu as i've been witnessing
20:33 asciilifeform many, many years ago, asciilifeform wrote a ( and won't claim to be the only one who had this simple idea ) thing for evading censorware, that'd encipher a blob ( aes, iirc ) and package all but N bits of the key with the compressed ciphertext
20:33 asciilifeform decompressor would brute force the N
20:34 mircea_popescu what's that do ?
20:34 asciilifeform naturally there was nothing provable re aes -- but it served a useful end, which was to make machine evaluation of the contents en masse, impractical
20:34 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: got around antivirus
20:34 mircea_popescu a a a the five-points-fridge
20:34 mircea_popescu i keep forgettiong the tards are in bayesian "intelligence" mode.
20:35 asciilifeform maximally noiselike, if you will, polymorphism
20:35 mircea_popescu right
20:37 asciilifeform and likewise there is the 2 or so y.o. thread that all of this is a living branch of, the one with the np-hard boojums. that'd be the real mega-prize
20:37 mircea_popescu mya
20:43 asciilifeform (mostly) unrelatedly, asciilifeform bought some chinese $various , and , in the crate, discovered a phree goodie, a 'voltalert' tool, that supposedly tests for presence of mains current noncontactfully -- by looking for 50/60Hz electric field. but witness the surprise : it gives false negative on maybe 1/3 of the hot mains wires tried...
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20:43 asciilifeform hard to think of a more catastrophically useless tool
20:43 asciilifeform if one were to rely on it -- worse than no tools at all, certain demise.
20:44 mircea_popescu well .33 certaom
20:44 asciilifeform certain if you use it 3 times!111
20:44 mircea_popescu nope :D
20:44 asciilifeform .99999999....lel
20:44 mircea_popescu the chinese tool of probable demise.
20:45 asciilifeform and lulzily enough it is a copy of american item, by 'fluke'
20:45 mircea_popescu how can it miss the field anyway, wires are very hot emically.
20:45 asciilifeform is what i thought also!
20:46 asciilifeform possibly delicate balance, between finding it anywhere in the room ( as a poorly made amp will ) and nowhere
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20:46 mircea_popescu are you sure you read the manual correctloy ? maybe it's supposed to work after you grab the hot wire.
20:46 mircea_popescu wetware amplified detecting
20:46 asciilifeform i already have THAT one
20:46 asciilifeform ( tongue!11 )
20:48 asciilifeform i have a prehistoric variant of this tool that worx great, but it has a little ring that opens & clamps around wire
20:48 asciilifeform ( magnetic, rather than electric )
20:48 asciilifeform dunno wai this had to be 'modernized'...
20:48 mircea_popescu too many ppls ?
20:49 asciilifeform evidently.
20:49 * asciilifeform off to tend to $contents of $crate, bbl.
~ 32 minutes ~
21:22 ben_vulpes aaand at the crockchain opinion hour: http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/businessreview/2017/07/04/seven-signs-of-over-hyped-fintech/
21:34 mircea_popescu black chicks finjourna-ho-ing!
~ 15 minutes ~
21:49 asciilifeform 'Perhaps the best example of claiming credit for a problem that did not exist before is Bitcoin. Bitcoin enthusiasts claim it solved the “double spend” problem. A music MP3 can be copied multiple times so how do you stop digital money being spent multiple times? Very simple, you do not create a form of money that lacks a central authority.' << ahahhahaha
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21:49 mircea_popescu durr
21:49 asciilifeform 'if god meant man to bitcoinate, he'dve given'im wings' or how did it go
21:50 mircea_popescu as if "Central authority" is EVEN POSSIBLE outside of very temporary, geographically limited arrangements.
21:50 mircea_popescu fiatards are a fine example of claiming they resolved a problem by conceptual contorsion.
21:50 asciilifeform 'Regarding security, resilience, privacy, transparency to regulators. Those rules are generally there for very good reasons that do not simply become irrelevant because the technology changes.' << didjaalsoknow!!
21:51 asciilifeform trololol!
21:51 mircea_popescu heh. is it actually a negress signing ?
21:51 asciilifeform trolless
21:52 asciilifeform 'Martin Walker is Banking and Finance Director at the Center for Evidence-Based Management (CEBMa) and produces research for financial consultancy Finadium. He has extensive experience in investment banking IT and operations.... Dresdner Kleinwort and Global Head of Prime Brokerage Technology at RBS Markets. He also held roles at Merrill Lynch and HSBC Global Markets...' etc
21:53 mircea_popescu disappointing. keysha mac aleisha 'd have been so much more convincing.
21:55 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> hard to think of a more catastrophically useless tool << There a better an worse variants of this tool. Pretty much only the good ones sell for this reason.
21:55 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> dunno wai this had to be 'modernized'... << Faster!!! For the modern jobsite!!!
21:56 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: wet finger still faster..
21:57 BingoBoingo No money to be made from Phree wet finger in OSHA "work safety" racket
21:59 BingoBoingo Essentially an extortion racket centered around avoiding the healthcare extortion racket
22:00 asciilifeform interestingly, when asciilifeform was a cable runner he had a very cheap but effective similar-looking 'fox and hound' tool. i suspect that these are easier to get right , because the signal injected by the 'fox' is not 60hz and is not pestilentially everywhere in the house
22:01 BingoBoingo Well, those are used for actually DOING the work
22:02 asciilifeform they work as described in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-17#1671581
22:02 a111 Logged on 2017-06-17 19:56 asciilifeform: idea of pll is that you can indeed see a lit match from mile away in daylight if you know 'exactly when to look'
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