Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-07-03 | 2017-07-05 → ↓
00:00 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-04#1678949 << "mentally unstable secret service transgender charlie shoots president. VIOLENT COMPUTER GAMES MAY HAVE BEEN INVOLVED!!!!"
00:00 a111 Logged on 2017-07-04 03:22 BingoBoingo: January 2019 Trump will likely be Nixon proof. Pantsuit will have to resort to Kennedy solutions.
~ 22 minutes ~
00:23 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
00:23 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2612.22, vol: 13002.43778694 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2503.826, vol: 6281.94379 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2602.5, vol: 18638.3081568 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2691.995072, vol: 12614.50490000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2619.902, vol: 6754.02624087 | Volume-weighted last average: 2615.64317885
00:23 BingoBoingo This news is good for OMG CRASHING!!!
00:30 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E51426CFDA85B249F6D15DC1C02D7D376AC72762320584257E84D9FDE6DC1393 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1379...0579 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '89.250.54.58 (ssh-rsa key from 89.250.54.58 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FI)
00:30 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E51426CFDA85B249F6D15DC1C02D7D376AC72762320584257E84D9FDE6DC1393 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1623...1269 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '89.250.54.58 (ssh-rsa key from 89.250.54.58 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown FI)
00:39 lobbes !!deed http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2017/q1/hanbot_payment_receipt.txt
00:39 deedbot accepted: 1
00:39 lobbes !!deed http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2017/q2/hanbot_payment_receipt.txt
00:39 deedbot accepted: 1
~ 1 hours 5 minutes ~
01:45 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: was otherwise occupied; twas a teep just the teep
~ 17 minutes ~
02:02 hanbot any spanish speakers here have a decent translation for "match"? to place in a set, not pairing, not equaling, not anything else online dictionaries'd like to synonymize me with.
02:03 hanbot ^ shinohai ?
02:16 ben_vulpes not i
02:16 ben_vulpes nevertheless... http://68.media.tumblr.com/0fa6154fd3f3770ccb627406b0d2b6dd/tumblr_osjazdyYj81s2jikwo1_1280.jpg
02:24 mod6 nice sideburns
~ 18 minutes ~
02:43 mircea_popescu hanbot partido.
02:45 mircea_popescu ah im sorry, to match as in a set. conjunto fambly should suit you.
02:45 hanbot conjuuuunto. tyty!
02:46 mircea_popescu yw
~ 6 hours 40 minutes ~
09:26 shinohai !~later tell hanbot Ah sorry I missed your message, I was out at that time cojunto-ing with local girls. ;)
09:26 jhvh1 shinohai: The operation succeeded.
09:27 shinohai !~ticker --market all
09:27 jhvh1 shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2621.86, vol: 11540.22746202 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2537.349, vol: 6658.60169 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2607.0, vol: 18107.17109604 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2668.04853, vol: 8983.97320000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2619.031, vol: 6922.33937901 | Volume-weighted last average: 2613.50135031
~ 18 minutes ~
09:45 phf i wrote a hilariously bad common lisp version of fhf
09:47 phf ben_vulpes: i'm pretty sure your type annotations are doing nothing useful. cursory look i think only fixnum stuff is taking effect, but that's such a small overhead
09:49 phf i'm pretty sure biggest overhead is in using adjustable arrays, because you lose out on using sbit instead of bit. sbit expects (simple-array bit (*)) and apart from doing basic type check it has very little overhead.
09:50 phf and the other issue with adjustable arrays is that you're doing a lot of expands (and that's what mp's fhf does), you're generating n^2 garbage
09:50 phf *if you're doing
09:52 phf (funny thing re sbit vs bit, sbit generates immediate assembly, where's bit, in sbcl, calls out to a function named SB-KERNEL:HAIRY-DATA-VECTOR-REF. nuff said)
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09:59 phf sbcl is the original "modern"11! lisp. it gives "style warnings" on my code, but completely ignores type errors in ben_vulpes's code (compiling same code in cmucl gives a lot of warnings about the types being all kinds of confused)
10:04 asciilifeform now if cmucl actually worked, rather than compiling to crasholade...
10:05 phf yeah, it would've been neat if people carefully improved existing quality system instead of modernizing, alas. i hear wayland also works!!1
10:07 asciilifeform if it worked ( rather than tried to redefine 'work' ) ..
10:09 phf fhf implementation http://paste.lisp.org/display/350018, this one just races against ben_vulpes's, i'll see if i can beat go version once i get to building go environment..
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10:10 asciilifeform phf: there's a couple of order-of-magnitude imho obvious optimizations, but i dun wanna ruin the fun
10:11 asciilifeform but for some reason nobody said anything yet
10:12 asciilifeform one hint -- look at 'screw' as a modular congruence
↖ ↖ ↖
10:12 phf yeah, this version is straight spec implementation (in fact if you search for (fhf mp ...) that part should directly correspond to spec wording). only optimization i did was to keep the S reallocations down
10:13 asciilifeform other hint -- stop doing mem-access-per-bitflip omfg
10:13 phf right, but that would "break" the spec to code correspondence
10:15 asciilifeform phf: what does your rewind do if pos is 0 ?
10:15 phf part of spec as far as i understand it, that the (fhf mp ...) part is a canonical, but not the only implementation. so yeah you could write optimal version of mp's fhf, but it's not going to speak the same dictionary, and you won't be necessarily able to apply same optimizations to other (fhf ...). (or i guess you can, but require more cleverness than just etc.)
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10:16 phf gtfo.
10:16 asciilifeform lol
10:17 phf i mean, there's a bunch of macros that share state through referencing same symbols. if i were to post this to #lisp they would lynch me
10:18 asciilifeform reminds me of my 'nock' compiler
10:19 phf oh, that's actually good point re rewind, that's in the spec "except in the case our position is already 0."
10:19 asciilifeform aaha
10:27 phf man, dusseldorf airport soundtrack is like the best of the 90s that nobody listens to anymore, but used to back in the day. like they are playing bryan adams's "i do it for you" which i remember serenading to some girl. makes me heart tingle it does.
10:29 asciilifeform phf: hm, 'woods' turns out was in de ?
10:30 phf this is new woods
10:32 asciilifeform neato
10:37 phf http://paste.lisp.org/display/350021
10:39 asciilifeform dun need the <= phf
10:39 asciilifeform = will do...
10:40 phf that's true, and is closer to wording..
10:42 asciilifeform btw this proggy is nostalgiatronic in that i nao return in my head to ye olde naggumwank over 'if*'
10:42 asciilifeform ( he had an eternal and bitter feud with the author )
10:46 asciilifeform unrelatedly, i still have not thought of a proof that mphash terminates on all inputs.
10:46 asciilifeform ( and currently suspect that you can construct one where it doesn't )
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10:48 phf i wouldn't call it bitter, at least he didn't think of if* proponents as complete retards.
10:48 phf i wouldn't use it in my own code, but there are occasional cases where it "makes sense", particularly when you're writing potato code
10:49 phf http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3131012851256245@naggum.no.html http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3131062658198428@naggum.no.html
10:50 phf hmm, never mind his later rants on the subject contain a lot more vitriol
10:51 asciilifeform phf: potato?
10:51 phf https://divmod.readthedocs.io/en/latest/philosophy/potato.html
10:52 phf but i use it to refer to intentionally or unintentionally naive code. like the kind of stuff you would write in BASIC.
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10:53 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-04#1679041 << bwahahaha
10:53 a111 Logged on 2017-07-04 13:52 phf: (funny thing re sbit vs bit, sbit generates immediate assembly, where's bit, in sbcl, calls out to a function named SB-KERNEL:HAIRY-DATA-VECTOR-REF. nuff said)
10:53 mircea_popescu truth be told fhf was designed by a coder hater, and it shows. exactly typical ops a sane person would never even contemplate.
10:54 asciilifeform how's that
10:54 mircea_popescu "enlarge datastruct one bit at a time ? because your mother fed you artichokes whole or why!"
10:54 mircea_popescu "just tell me how large it ends up and stop wasting my time! WHAT THE FUCK IT CAN'T BE KNOWN IN ADVANCE!"
10:55 mircea_popescu and then there's the "screw". as phf sez, nuff said.
10:56 mircea_popescu phf whereas is not where's, etymologically or otherwise. i dunno if you know that.
10:56 asciilifeform the 'potentially infinite mem' and 'potentially not terminates' is the boojum, not exotic bit ops
10:56 mircea_popescu asciilifeform mp-fhf terminates, and in finite mem. of course, other fhfs might not.
10:57 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: picture 'i'd luvvv to verify this tx, but gotta buy some ram, and for 3rd time this week'
10:57 mircea_popescu oya.
10:57 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: didja prove ?
↖
10:57 mircea_popescu i did not prove ;/
10:57 asciilifeform that it terminates
10:57 asciilifeform lolk
10:57 mircea_popescu i am surrounded by looseleaf to the degree girl walked in said "you remind me a lot of mr happy" "whassat ?" "pet hamster i had when i was 5"
10:58 mircea_popescu but no prove.
10:59 mircea_popescu nevertheless, the reason it has those bojums flows from the atomic ops, not gift from god.
11:06 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-04#1679054 << this is a fine approach. "here's the per spec impl, here's the optimized impl. you can verify they agree wrt results ; and you can trivially verify the former is spec-accurate."
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11:06 a111 Logged on 2017-07-04 14:15 phf: part of spec as far as i understand it, that the (fhf mp ...) part is a canonical, but not the only implementation. so yeah you could write optimal version of mp's fhf, but it's not going to speak the same dictionary, and you won't be necessarily able to apply same optimizations to other (fhf ...). (or i guess you can, but require more cleverness than just etc.)
11:06 mircea_popescu in fact specified as opposed to farted code has this property, that you write two programs per spec like that. hence "agile" ie "code is the spec" ie "please shoot me" modernity.
11:06 mircea_popescu saves on paper! envirowhiny!
11:08 jurov http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-04#1678979 lol what do you smoke? what about numerous dividend mispayments, some resulting in a rollback?
11:08 a111 Logged on 2017-07-04 03:43 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mpex afaik never reverted trades either
11:08 mircea_popescu this is related ?
11:08 jurov dividends are not transactions?
11:09 mircea_popescu well depends what you mean and what you're talking about. some people call their http "transactions", and the "road ahead is clear" as they say to next propose mpex css ain't good enough to be nasdaq.
11:10 mircea_popescu but the discussion here isn't "naive perception of item x as compared to naive perception of item y". that'll be biased by the direct interaction. the discussion is "industrial item x vs y".
11:10 jurov "alrighty"
11:11 mircea_popescu if every time a broker advanced cash to a customer you took out nasdaq and shot it, it'd live microseconds each iteration.
11:11 jurov Yet it outlived bitbet.
11:12 mircea_popescu jurov nasdaq solution to bitbet problem is to take kako out and shoot him. that i'm a civilised fellow is not something you can oppose to me.
11:13 mircea_popescu on the contrary, in this context it is my merit and you're welcome to praise.
11:13 mircea_popescu in the sense that if you discuss it at all, all you may say is "mp is so fucking great, he put personal freedom above corporate continuance."
11:14 mircea_popescu yes this is a choice i've made repeatedly and threaten to keep making. it also happens to be fundamental to republican vs you know, imperial outlook.
11:17 phf in fact http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-09#1623811 :/ i was trying to remember recently but failed what it is that i was consistently using wrong
11:17 a111 Logged on 2017-03-09 18:06 mircea_popescu: phf you know it's whereas not where's.
11:17 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-04#1679049 awww i was waiting for that.
11:17 a111 Logged on 2017-07-04 14:12 asciilifeform: one hint -- look at 'screw' as a modular congruence
11:18 mircea_popescu phf what it was that i consistently ; not what it is that i consistently was :D
11:18 mircea_popescu russki! english has backwards tenses.
11:18 phf also articles are optional
11:19 mircea_popescu this is a very fine example, incidentally. it's in my mind right there with the oxford comma ("i had eggs, salmon and biscuits" interpreted as the speaker telling salmon and biscuits as an item that he had eggs) as anglo-antilogic in my head.
11:19 mircea_popescu which is why qntra style says "logical comma always". as opposed to oxfordian.
11:20 mircea_popescu anyway, it is logical to have the error permanent "what it is", and the self-reference tensed "i was". rather than pretend the error has no further substance than its past occurence, whereas the id is eternal and so therefore is.
11:21 mircea_popescu yet in english it's how they do it, and THIS is what they mean when they say the language it speaks will tell you a lot of a people.
11:21 mircea_popescu ie, there is no such thing possible as "a christian english-as-single-language speaker".
~ 15 minutes ~
11:37 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-04#1679072 << this i'd like to see
11:37 a111 Logged on 2017-07-04 14:46 asciilifeform: ( and currently suspect that you can construct one where it doesn't )
11:39 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-04#1679079 << i thought samagon was made out of chicken feathers not potatoes.
11:39 a111 Logged on 2017-07-04 14:52 phf: but i use it to refer to intentionally or unintentionally naive code. like the kind of stuff you would write in BASIC.
11:39 phf irishmen came up with that term, it's all about potatoes with those people
11:41 mircea_popescu lol
11:43 mircea_popescu "the great potato famine'd have been lots worse were it made out of wheat instead"
11:43 asciilifeform 'or if stalin did it and not brit crown'
11:44 mircea_popescu hehe.
11:45 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-04#1679092 << my current thinking is, the only way to resolve this within a lifetime is to see if a mpfhf cycle could be constructed. if it can, solved, if it provably can't then it is time&space finite, even as a statistical ceiling argument.
11:45 a111 Logged on 2017-07-04 14:57 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja prove ?
11:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: well yes
11:45 asciilifeform how else.
11:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform there are other ways. they work better on the exact type of hash fhf isn't.
11:46 mircea_popescu haven't yet managed to pin down what teh absolute requirement list for a cycle is though.
11:46 asciilifeform not necessarily cycle tho. if i can construct a 'for (i=0; i<maxint; i++) {}' then just as good
11:46 asciilifeform in terms of 'won't terminate before machine crumbles to dust'
11:47 mircea_popescu this is a point in practice, but not relevant re the finite-ness.
11:47 asciilifeform tru!!
11:47 asciilifeform recall the 'primes is in p' thread
11:47 asciilifeform ( buncha d00dz published a polynomial time primality test in early 2000s. but try and use it. )
11:48 asciilifeform *deterministic primality test
11:48 mircea_popescu kinda why we're even doing all the prof work on it, see that crumble to dust bit first.
11:48 mircea_popescu aha :D
11:51 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-04#1679046 << /me studies, + thread
11:51 a111 Logged on 2017-07-04 14:09 phf: fhf implementation http://paste.lisp.org/display/350018, this one just races against ben_vulpes's, i'll see if i can beat go version once i get to building go environment..
11:52 mircea_popescu asciilifeform god damned. check this out : 1. only way to cycle is through the rewind branch. 2. rewind branch only rewinds one, so to cycle must be run through every time. 3. the branch with a rewind always does a S in R screw, and a R flip. for cycle to happen therefore a) message bit must be 0 and b) S and R must be in such a state that screw and bitflip produce same bit in R.
11:52 asciilifeform well yes
11:52 asciilifeform how else
11:53 mircea_popescu asciilifeform BUT
11:53 BingoBoingo In other delusionariums, guide for ES(ingle)L Chinese Miners; A FANFIC: https://archive.is/tY0Ya
11:53 BingoBoingo Much better title than their bullshit
11:54 mircea_popescu eh bullshit, it crumbled.
11:54 asciilifeform oh ffs BingoBoingo , 'bitcoin magazine' ?!
11:54 BingoBoingo Hey, I labeled it fanfic
11:55 phf ben_vulpes: http://paste.lisp.org/display/350022 current version
11:55 BingoBoingo "OMG HARD DATES LISTED!!!" Ought to make the Shillbert fail more sweet than the GaVERToominium failures so far
11:56 phf i threw in a handful of type declarations (which eliminated generic-+ calls), but that as expected shaved less than half a second
11:57 asciilifeform phf: i can see argument for 100% unoptimized 'potato'. but if yer gonna optimize, may as well do it properly neh
11:57 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no. no. it's there. asciilifeform : "This operation consists of taking the bit count of either S or R, iterating over that value, at each step multiplying the iterator with the current position in M" << screw will always be m-position divisible. |If the bit in R found at the position equal to the remainder of the division of our position in M by the size of R is 0" << bit deciding rewind is ALWAYS touched by th
11:57 mircea_popescu e screw part of that branch. so we need a M/S/R that takes the 1, flips it to 0, so then the rewind flips it back to 1 again and so it couldf cycle.
11:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aha
11:58 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo they still wanking with bitpython v 3.0 or w/e it is ?
11:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i admit , i half-expected to have mircea_popescu pull the noncycling proof out of his hat, 'aha, someone finally thought to ask..'
11:58 mircea_popescu nope.
11:58 phf asciilifeform: there's different kinds of optimizations. you can nail down the types and get a complete type signature of your code. i don't think there's any shame in it
11:59 asciilifeform phf: i did not say 'shame' lel
11:59 mircea_popescu gah this is fucking frustrating
12:03 * asciilifeform bbl -- meat.
12:03 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Haven't fed it through pantsuit.txt parser yet, will after sleeping
12:13 mircea_popescu ok i fucking got it!
12:13 mircea_popescu the requirements for cycle : a M/S/R that takes the 1, flips it to 0, so then the rewind flips it back to 1 again and so it could cycle.
12:13 mircea_popescu these requirements can never be satisfied, because the branch in question EXPANDS s, and therefore it will never be the case that the position modulo R of S will be equal to the position modulo R of S+1.
12:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform ^
12:20 deedbot http://deedbot.org/bundle-473777.txt
~ 1 hours 6 minutes ~
13:26 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/61C5D4EF56CBBFBAFDE33BD7F870253F9F5898F82CD8BF8E6954CCDF8A70245E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1501...5889 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '91.90.148.18 (ssh-rsa key from 91.90.148.18 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (server4718.mivitec.net. DE)
13:26 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/61C5D4EF56CBBFBAFDE33BD7F870253F9F5898F82CD8BF8E6954CCDF8A70245E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1764...8029 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '91.90.148.18 (ssh-rsa key from 91.90.148.18 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (server4718.mivitec.net. DE)
~ 2 hours 8 minutes ~
15:34 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/no-such-labs-snsa-june-2017-statement/ << Trilema - No Such lAbs (S.NSA), June 2017 Statement
15:40 mod6 Good to hear that the lost units came back.
15:40 mircea_popescu yee
~ 47 minutes ~
16:27 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-04#1679046 << should beat that as well yeah
16:27 a111 Logged on 2017-07-04 14:09 phf: fhf implementation http://paste.lisp.org/display/350018, this one just races against ben_vulpes's, i'll see if i can beat go version once i get to building go environment..
16:29 ben_vulpes phf: illuminating, ty
~ 31 minutes ~
17:00 mircea_popescu in other usistani ideas : register "techrite" as a brand. then people can say "he's got the techrite" about your users.
17:06 mircea_popescu not to mention http://dickrite.com http://cockrite.com etc
~ 3 hours 14 minutes ~
20:20 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
20:20 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2586.4, vol: 9738.16797447 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2509.146, vol: 5957.60415 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2568.8, vol: 15703.98682071 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2672.89806, vol: 9377.74330000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2588.045, vol: 5887.51865475 | Volume-weighted last average: 2588.20440617
~ 2 hours 59 minutes ~
23:20 asciilifeform happy 2015phorqday folx
23:21 BingoBoingo Happy Phorking day to all you motherphorkers!
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