#trilema | 2017-07-06

pest - 11h 6m
trilema - 1020d

Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2017-07-05 | 2017-07-07 → ↓

05:03	mod6	mornin'
		~ 3 hours 44 minutes ~
08:48	mod6	wb
08:48	mircea_popescu	heya
08:49	mod6	power situation any better?
08:49	mircea_popescu	ah it wasn't the power, i have it set to disconnect at six in the morning deliberately.
08:50	mod6	ah, i mean, where the girls were carrying up buckets of water?
08:50	mircea_popescu	i think i even mentioned this in the logs at some point. perpetual connections are unsanitary.
08:50	mod6	maybe i imagined that lol.
08:50	mircea_popescu	ah, that was 3 hours, then
08:50	mod6	ah.
08:50	mircea_popescu	they got it back up same evening. (not universally, nicaragua was still without power the next day for instance)
08:51	mod6	gotcha
08:52	mircea_popescu	teh ticos (costa rican ethnonym) are actually very serious, dedicated people. like shorter, more pleasant californians let's say. the nicaraguans are dorks and the panamanians are all to a man this strange rendition of the frustrated shittier brother.
08:52	mircea_popescu	dunno if you've ever seen this in practice, 2nd born with a huge boner/inferiority complex.
08:53	mod6	ah, sure.
08:53	mircea_popescu	but anyway, if costa rica enlarges its airport because it gets tons of traffic and it HAS TO, panama will built an even larger one!!!! which nobody really needs wants or uses. but THEY ARE BETTER DAMNIT
08:53	mircea_popescu	poached the cr soccer coach, it's a thing
08:55	mod6	heh, funny
08:59	mod6	i didn't sleep a wink last night.
08:59	mod6	so now im like...
08:59	mod6	chugging coffee.
09:06	mircea_popescu	why not ?
09:06	mod6	i dunno. just one of those nights i guess.
09:06	mircea_popescu	a
09:08	mod6	can i also say that this whole lobbesbot thing is a pretty great model. does auctions, then he collects the fees (monthly?).
09:12	mod6	oh quarterly, looks like.
09:15	mircea_popescu	quarterly yea.
09:15	mircea_popescu	very useful item also.
09:16	mircea_popescu	the original plan was to tie in payments with deedbot payment system, and im sure that's how it'll work once that bit of infrastructure is ready.
09:16	mod6	werd. very cool.
09:16	mircea_popescu	then that can also handle deeding fees, and lo and behold, actual cryptoeconomy
09:29	mod6	outstanding
09:30	mircea_popescu	<D
09:35	deedbot	http://trilema.com/2017/minigame-smg-june-2017-statement/ << Trilema - MiniGame (S.MG), June 2017 Statement
		~ 50 minutes ~
10:25	deedbot	http://deedbot.org/bundle-474218.txt
		~ 24 minutes ~
10:50	phf	http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Diaries/2017-06.html << “So far as the question I opened with is concerned — "If we tried to use our nukes, would they work?" — I'm guessing the answer is "probably not."”
		↖
10:50	mircea_popescu	good thing mp is so wrong about things then!!!1
10:51	phf	right, corroborating point in logs
10:51	mircea_popescu	but anyway, they'll work just as well as everything else in the empire of stupid works. did "ourembargo" work ? sure, in the sense shittington post wrote about how it will, and then promptly forgot it ever happened
10:52	mircea_popescu	next issue of fiat paper will read Ourshit Dun Work instead of the racist/rapist in god we trust bit
10:52	phf	(although from the same diary page, http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Diaries/2017-06.html#07 entry named "bitcoin bites" is just amusing)
10:53	mircea_popescu	let me guess, rehash of original "stages" curtis yarvin "argument" ?
10:54	phf	nah, a very naive, outsider "somebody gifted me bitcoin, i logged into coinbase recently and the whole experience is a piece of shit, so bitcoin, shmitcoin, whatever"
10:54	mircea_popescu	speaking of which, very fundamentally libertard this "framing" approach, quintessentially what "progress" is all about. here's what happened, now let me hallucinate a string of pseudocauses and outcomes which you can believe in!
10:54	mircea_popescu	phf i kept telling the naive early adopter noobs that gifting coin is fucking dumb.
10:55	mircea_popescu	but by definition, naive early adopters have their own ideas.
11:08	mircea_popescu	revisiting the above "progress" great lie of socialism : just as eg wikipedia parasithizes (see alf/naggum re how this works) the encyclopedia space, turning whatever it can steal into "wearenotbegging for donations", just like github tries to accrete "wild" work into something they can sell down the road to the bezzlevestor, just so school in the socialist state (as designed by trotsky, stealing from bismarck) works also on
11:08	mircea_popescu	the same great lie fundamental to all socialism.
11:08	mircea_popescu	"here's what happened, and here's our story of a string of causes which we call purposes"
		↖
11:09	mircea_popescu	which is how every god damned kid that was sexually abused through the process of socialist schooling (which is all of them -- education is education, and socialist school is definitionally sexual abuse of all children involved) ends up with the idea that newton sat down TO discover whatever he did (unimportant, really) and THEREFORE he did.
		↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖
11:10	mircea_popescu	the replacement of causes with purposes in this sense is the ONLY point of "school" as the socialists do it. it's uninteresting to understand exactly what the theory of gravity is, says or does, or what a number is, or anything else of that kind
11:10	asciilifeform	!!up fromloper
11:10	deedbot	fromloper voiced for 30 minutes.
11:10	asciilifeform	fromloper: who goes there ?
11:11	mircea_popescu	what is important is for the kids to end up with the purposes idiocy implanted in their heads. and they do. which is how they end up thinking "modern medicine" has something to do with life expectancy changes. as opposed to sanitation.
11:11	mircea_popescu	and which is how they end up with all the rest of the dumb shit.
11:13	mircea_popescu	schooling for the purpose of convincing as many unexamining intellects as possible that "in the soviet union kids get icecream". if it takes putting the agitprop mechanism in the middle of the forest cuz that's where the peasants go... well, they'll mount it in a truck.
11:13	mircea_popescu	and if it takes a little incidental mention of the history of thought, fine, just as long as it's a) safely bowdlerized into nonsense and b) really, incidental to the great story.
11:14	mircea_popescu	in other words -- us schools don't work on purpose, not by accident. and like those, everything else, nukes, embargoes, name it.
11:21	asciilifeform	!~later tell phf didja change something on tehl0gz www recently ? it no longer fits on my displays w/out horizontal scrolling, is a headache
11:21	jhvh1	asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
11:22	asciilifeform	!~later tell phf nm, false alarm, problem was on my end
11:22	jhvh1	asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
11:25	mircea_popescu	lel
11:26	*	asciilifeform has all sorts of custom strange in his local loop, and this has costs
11:26	asciilifeform	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679600 << the bigger, imho, puzzler, is why they even bother to bring up newton
11:26	a111	Logged on 2017-07-06 15:09 mircea_popescu: which is how every god damned kid that was sexually abused through the process of socialist schooling (which is all of them -- education is education, and socialist school is definitionally sexual abuse of all children involved) ends up with the idea that newton sat down TO discover whatever he did (unimportant, really) and THEREFORE he did.
11:27	asciilifeform	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679599 << this is implicit to any forced (i.e. for feeding to dullnormal children) linearization of history, which is at the very basic a vtree
11:27	a111	Logged on 2017-07-06 15:08 mircea_popescu: "here's what happened, and here's our story of a string of causes which we call purposes"
11:28	asciilifeform	dun even matter by whom, communists, priests, ameritards
		~ 17 minutes ~
11:45	mircea_popescu	it's not for feeding the dullnormal, though.
11:45	mircea_popescu	quite on the contrary. that can be a pretext, if you're willing to eat it. and if not -- others available.
11:47	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it's for 'feeding' period. vtree is not fit for feeding to passive mouths, fella has to go out an' get it himself, i.e. the original concept of scholarship
11:47	mircea_popescu	ever since the early seeds of socialism showed up in paris (not so coincidentally, where syphilis also comes from), it's been one great race to re-construct human thought into socialistardation.
11:47	asciilifeform	'public schooling' is certainly not about scholarship.
11:48	mircea_popescu	yeah. it's not about anything besides "here's our socialist state, it is great and statal and socialist". absolutely nothing at all.
11:48	asciilifeform	'we are the greatest X, we are the greatest Y, nothing like us ever was' (tm)(r)
11:48	mircea_popescu	"and here's the list of necessary steps that lead to it!"
11:48	mircea_popescu	cunnigonde is ever so delighted.
11:49	mircea_popescu	(ie, voltaire shows antibodies, infection was clearly present in his environment.)
		~ 19 minutes ~
12:09	asciilifeform	infection was christianity.
12:09	mircea_popescu	only post schism
12:09	asciilifeform	( witness how the early church bureaucrats passed off a vpress of the newtestament as 'the whole thing was always linear' )
12:09	mircea_popescu	anyway ima bbl
		~ 44 minutes ~
12:54	shinohai	This is good for Microshit http://archive.is/0gyPU
12:55	asciilifeform	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679586 << lulzily from same, 'math corner' , in re ye olde http://trilema.com/2017/time-to-get-out-by-the-way/ >> http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Diaries/2017-05.html#20 ( motherfucker makes his pgs unlinkable individually )
12:55	a111	Logged on 2017-07-06 14:50 phf: http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Diaries/2017-06.html << “So far as the question I opened with is concerned — "If we tried to use our nukes, would they work?" — I'm guessing the answer is "probably not."”
12:56	asciilifeform	'You can't escape this garbage, even in the pages of respectable math journals. There are no safe spaces. We are doomed.'
13:08	asciilifeform	in other crackpotteries, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-21#1673058 >> http://www.migaloo-submarines.com << claims to sell 'submersible yachts'. asciilifeform watched the ad film, horrified, thing has WINDOWS
13:08	a111	Logged on 2017-06-21 15:10 mircea_popescu: rules to fucking live by, you know, "by the time you feel like you wanna live in a submarine, it's time to gtfo and find a better place."
13:09	asciilifeform	and... ACRYLIC pressure hull.
13:09	asciilifeform	didjaknow.
13:09	asciilifeform	and... '2 x 1200 kW, Li-Ion-Batteries' ahahaha
13:11	asciilifeform	in terms of separating moneyed idiots from the moolah -- this beats the 'chilean gulch' thing.
13:11	asciilifeform	in sheer audacity.
		~ 30 minutes ~
13:41	mod6	lol
13:44	asciilifeform	abuse of units, incidentally, if this were an actual spec it would read 'kW/H'
13:44	asciilifeform	quite obviously not proofread / no actual technical whatevers. involved in its making.
13:48	mod6	smh
		~ 2 hours 39 minutes ~
16:27	BingoBoingo	http://qntra.net/2017/05/fiat-wraps-up-miserable-may-as-malaise-reaches-new-lows/#comment-104453
16:31	asciilifeform	'even if i run the real bitcoin node, my bitcoins price are going to crash. you can try to isolate yourself with that software, but the price is subjected to whats going on outside.'
16:31	asciilifeform	gold
16:31	asciilifeform	apparently asciilifeform has been Doing It All Wrong
16:31	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform this is more complicated. original church was very much republic, much like original us presidency. then the socialistards got roosevelt in and broke it. similarily to how empire meant something, before napoleon.
16:31	asciilifeform	where do i download the client that makes usd exchange rate 1giga ???
16:31	mircea_popescu	the usual mo is this, very strictly antiauthoritarian, "we'll get our own schmuck emperor and then ruin the thing"
16:31	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: aha, 'taiwanization'
16:32	mircea_popescu	i suppose technically roosevelt broke the shattered remains left after monkeyboy lincoln, but still, general idea.
16:32	asciilifeform	and lincoln broke what monkeyboy washington/hamilton left
16:33	mircea_popescu	that part i'm not convinced of.
16:33	mircea_popescu	who was the proper rep there, jefferson ?
16:34	asciilifeform	him, and, iirc, gallatin
16:34	mircea_popescu	i don't really see it. jefferson, for all his popularity, was intellectually ~nil.
16:35	mircea_popescu	his "ideas" if you can call them that are all sorta broken.
16:37	asciilifeform	j wasn't an 'idea man', no
16:37	mircea_popescu	so then how can he rep
16:37	asciilifeform	but more notable for what he ~wasn't~ doing
16:37	asciilifeform	i.e. centralized megastate
16:37	mircea_popescu	in this sense the washington monument was the proper government lol
16:38	mircea_popescu	hamilton wasn't doping centralized megastate either. it's unclear what washington wass doing, as also not idea man, but probably ALSO not megastate judging by how if he were, he'd have been the king of united states literally.
16:38	asciilifeform	consider also shay's and 'whiskey' rebellions
16:38	mircea_popescu	what about them are we considering ?
16:40	asciilifeform	shay's was the start of usg's long and happy tradition of not paying debts when it dun feel like
16:40	asciilifeform	and, as side effect, put washington into presidency
16:41	mircea_popescu	veterans not getting paid what they thought was fair is an absolute part of all war.
16:41	mircea_popescu	this is the dark secret of gender disparity : after the deed's done, woman gets more than she expected, and man less.
16:41	asciilifeform	veterans in debt/starvation is generally part of ~loser~'s side of war
16:41	asciilifeform	not winner
16:43	asciilifeform	as for whiskey rebellion -- that's when usg first switched to collecting tax forcibly, vs tmsr-style. buncha 'uppity' folx didn't 'get the memo', hanged a few tax collectors, massacred.
16:43	mircea_popescu	now how is this relating to say hamilton in preference of say monroe ?
16:43	asciilifeform	hamilton was 'washington's brain'
16:44	mircea_popescu	recall (part of why i even republishedf that) -- hamilton was an original, and originally a lonely, voice in the "to spend -- you MUST first tax" camp.
16:44	mircea_popescu	this is very weak.
16:44	asciilifeform	( w was a quasiliterate )
16:45	mircea_popescu	also, "tmsr style" may be a misnomer. the republic receiving tax from the lords voluntarily is one thing, but there's nowehre in statute or custom where it says lord can't grind into paste any subhuman peons it gets his hands on, to extract whatever he extracts.
16:45	asciilifeform	at the risk of oversimplification -- washington & co were in favour of setting up 'an england'; j & co -- 'an italy'
16:46	mircea_popescu	leaving aside that "an italy" would have been utterly horrible, there's no significant difference between these in respects that interest us. neither wanted "a holy roman empire", and so...
		↖
16:46	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: that'd be 'a lord', rather than 'a crown purportedly acting in the name of all lords'
16:46	mircea_popescu	for the schmucks getting the sharp end of that stick, the difference will be negligible.
16:47	asciilifeform	turns out -- not so negligible. nobody in pre-unifications europe paid anything like modern peasant's tax rate
16:47	mircea_popescu	and "shoulda been in the forum a while back" will not parse to anything, either.
16:47	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform and nobody had anything like modern peasant's productivity, either.
16:48	asciilifeform	what's that to do with the theft rate ?
16:49	mircea_popescu	here's thje thing. if your capital good worth 100 btc produces 1 btc a year and you pay real estate tax of 0.5% and no income tax, you're payinfg half your income each year.
16:50	mircea_popescu	if your 100 btc capital good produces 1k btc a year, and you pay 1 bitcent in real estate tax and 50% income tax, you're paying... half your income each year, plus a bitcent.
16:50	mircea_popescu	inflation works this.
16:50	mircea_popescu	and yes they had re tax : to own a plot of land you produced knights.
16:51	mircea_popescu	very carefully weighed and so on, since before 1k ad, too.
16:51	asciilifeform	'your 100 btc capital good produces 1k btc a year' << where does the + come from in this scenario ?
16:51	asciilifeform	i dun get it
16:51	asciilifeform	( why would a $good that spews forth 1000, be valued at 100 ?? )
16:51	mircea_popescu	well, look at modern business. you throw up a bunch of vynil fresh off the boat, worth 40k if you're drunk that day, and call it a restaurant. then you expect revenue in the mn+ ayear.
16:52	PeterL	how about a shovel, costs 10 bucks, but you can make 10 bucks an hour wielding it?
16:52	asciilifeform	how's that to work, unless the thing is built on top of a petrowell, in the basement
16:52	mircea_popescu	medieval time, you built, out of stone, a tiny shop, cost about a hundred million in today's fiats, and got custom worth... you kjnow, 200 bux a day.
16:52	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform look into small business papers sometime ? waht can i tell yoiu, the bezzle's the bezzle, it's what it does.
16:52	asciilifeform	PeterL: the system in question is not the shovel, but you+shovel, and it'd sell for >10bux on slavemarket
16:52	mircea_popescu	it's why dorks like it, too. "wealth for everyone!"
16:53	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: smells of memoryleak
16:53	asciilifeform	'where is the + coming from'
16:53	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i was discussing capital goods not labour.
16:53	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the + is coming oiut of the fed imaginary account, which is cvurrently still credited by china.
16:55	mircea_popescu	anyway, PeterL has a solid point : you may think of whatever split between capital goods and labour, but fact is, at the time we are discussing the shovel owned oyu, not the other wayu around. if you owned a shovel you were god damned out there shoveling every day.
16:55	mircea_popescu	none of this, "i have these toys in my shop, which i play with today".
16:55	mircea_popescu	bitch, you had an harmonica you harmonicaed.
16:58	mircea_popescu	ie, historically more yous was the only thing they actually knew how to make. so they did. so... not much of a problem.
17:03	asciilifeform	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679687 << i'ma very curious nao, what mircea_popescu finds so horrible about the original disunified italies - y'know, the place that contained the original tmsr...
17:03	a111	Logged on 2017-07-06 20:46 mircea_popescu: leaving aside that "an italy" would have been utterly horrible, there's no significant difference between these in respects that interest us. neither wanted "a holy roman empire", and so...
17:03	*	asciilifeform brb, tea
17:03	mircea_popescu	the disunified italies contained the original argentina and no more.
17:04	mircea_popescu	buncha uppity "students" sitting around coffee tables and being idea men. fuck them with the boot shaped peninsula.
17:04	mircea_popescu	you can go to the acropolis right now, see the useless fucktarded greeks sitting around. ~same bs.
17:05	mircea_popescu	!~google tiganiada
17:05	jhvh1	mircea_popescu: Țiganiada - Wikisource: <https://ro.wikisource.org/wiki/%25C8%259Aiganiada>; Tiganiada - Ion Budai Deleanu - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DbJIT4LKDjV4>; Amazon.com: Tiganiada (Romanian Edition) (9786069830864): Ion ...: <https://www.amazon.com/Tiganiada-Romanian-Ion-Budai-Deleanu/dp/6069830865>
		↖
17:05	mircea_popescu	^ very much recommend. better history of italy than any italian ever could write.
17:07	mircea_popescu	for that matter, you can drink in tardstalk/reddit/what have you, have your fill.
		~ 20 minutes ~
17:27	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: lol, venice (tmsr!), genoa, florence, all shitholes in the parallel universe mircea_popescu apparently posts from?
17:28	PeterL	http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/S4MzV/?raw=true << mpfhf in python , I was thinking about http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-05#1679471 and flipping a single bit instead of going through the whole array
17:28	a111	Logged on 2017-07-05 22:28 asciilifeform: re mircea_popescu's hash, another observation : it is not ever necessary to actually invert S. ( i will leave the reason for this, again, as an exercise to readers )
17:28	mircea_popescu	what you said parsed as 1800 italy. which italy did you have in mind ?
17:28	mircea_popescu	you can't fucking reference the original, 1200 tmsr as "disunified italy" wtf is this.
17:28	asciilifeform	disunified - i.e. pre-garibaldi
17:28	mircea_popescu	that is 1800s.
17:28	asciilifeform	pre-washingtonization
17:29	mircea_popescu	if you had venice in mind, it'd be more proper to say original pre-unified european union.
17:29	asciilifeform	i.e. when 'italy' was a topographic name
17:29	asciilifeform	not 1800s, lol!
17:29	mircea_popescu	italy was used as a topographic name in the late empire (ie, 300s, italia) and else in the late 1800s
17:30	mircea_popescu	anyway, there's entirely no relation between garibaldi and say venice. you wanna talk d'este, sforza, zee germanz etc.
17:30	asciilifeform	well noshit.
17:31	asciilifeform	but garibaldization removes even possibility of venices.
17:31	asciilifeform	ditto washingtonization, bismarckization.
17:43	mircea_popescu	by the time garibaldi was even a thing, the lido had long been sanded.
17:43	mircea_popescu	i tihnk you have no appreciation of the fact that a thousand years is much MUCH wider than the piddly 5k kms making up the us sideways.
17:44	mircea_popescu	somehow in your mind these two things, one on mars, the other on alpha centauri, kinda meld into a single item
17:56	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: so argument is, no venice was possible ? why bash garibaldi then
17:57	mircea_popescu	i was not. i was stating the gypos then befouling the peninsula are not worthy of inclusion in the species.
17:58	asciilifeform	theoretically 'articles of confederation' america could've been moar venice than gypo.
17:58	asciilifeform	but washington/hamilton, with their bait'an'switch trick, nuked that.
17:58	mircea_popescu	not really. could have been more romiche reich than empire francais, at the very most.
17:58	mircea_popescu	that it wasn't is principally due to the germans being congenitally retarded, and no moar.
17:59	mircea_popescu	ye olde "live and let live" whereby the conservative is always in the end hung.
17:59	asciilifeform	picture if plantation states had managed to build a reasonable defensive army ( feodal-style; with purchased arms, mercenaries.. )
18:00	mircea_popescu	no. picture if plantation owners marched on washington in 1812, and hung a) all declared abolitionists ; b) any preacher of any kind ; c) any old women who did not applaud a and b.
18:00	mircea_popescu	THAT is what i mean by "ye olde "live and let live" whereby the conservative is always in the end hung.".
18:00	asciilifeform	well yes
18:00	mircea_popescu	well yes and no more.
18:01	asciilifeform	that's what 'defense' would've rightfully consisted of
18:01	asciilifeform	'good offense'
18:06	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: soo the 1812 thing - yer thinking of a separate 'southern' peace with britain..?
18:07	mircea_popescu	nope.
18:17	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the ~only morally or intellectually respectable character in italy, ie the 1800s thing, was to be founbd not in italy but in sicily, which is altogether a different place.
18:17	mircea_popescu	he is the continuator of the ancient military traditions of aristocracy, and he yielded the caudillo in south america. he yielded nothing in the southern us, principally because, agian, the germans are congenitally retarded.
18:17	mircea_popescu	in sicily he is known as the honorable man, ie mobster.
18:18	mircea_popescu	had the south managed to produce a de rosas, it'd have been a very different place. substantially, not just superficially.
18:18	mircea_popescu	but as it is -- 19.95 and would you like paper or pl;astioc bag ?
18:20	asciilifeform	de rosas was fighting other agrarians, neh
18:20	asciilifeform	rather than technologically superior 'martians'
18:20	mircea_popescu	england, france, the usual muck.
18:21	asciilifeform	england, france, were far
18:21	asciilifeform	getting materiel to sa was then almost as today is to orbit
18:21	mircea_popescu	closer than they were in 1812
18:21	asciilifeform	tru
18:22	mircea_popescu	and argentina much closer than japan.
18:22	mircea_popescu	or -- india.
18:25	mircea_popescu	much lower "perceived spoiliage value", however. and this because indians aren't worth jack shit in a fight ; whreas rosas kinda scared them
		~ 15 minutes ~
18:40	deedbot	http://qntra.net/2017/07/illinois-personal-income-tax-rising-13-over-governors-objections/ << Qntra - Illinois Personal Income Tax Rising ~1/3 Over Governor's Objections
18:40	BingoBoingo	^ In other CHIraqi failed states
18:41	mircea_popescu	1/3 whats ?
18:44	BingoBoingo	of what it was
18:44	mircea_popescu	so by ~1/3rd ?
18:44	BingoBoingo	ty fxd
		~ 43 minutes ~
19:28	phf	shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679724 i just noticed that jhvh1 seems to mangle urls with escape sequences in them on search
19:28	a111	Logged on 2017-07-06 21:05 jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Țiganiada - Wikisource: <https://ro.wikisource.org/wiki/%25C8%259Aiganiada>; Tiganiada - Ion Budai Deleanu - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DbJIT4LKDjV4>; Amazon.com: Tiganiada (Romanian Edition) (9786069830864): Ion ...: <https://www.amazon.com/Tiganiada-Romanian-Ion-Budai-Deleanu/dp/6069830865>
19:30	shinohai	Yeah phf ....it's the heathen google plugin that came with gribble. I haven't bothered to fix, sorry, since I have a rewrite in the worx
19:30	phf	actually, not sure what's going on, that youtube url has slashes escaped for some reason
19:31	phf	no worries, just didn't know if you knew
19:32	shinohai	While Limnoria is stable bot platform, the way it handles plugins does a lot of crazy shit I've never been able to fix. :/
19:38	mircea_popescu	do they have a chatroom for bugs and suych ?
		~ 18 minutes ~
19:56	shinohai	I was in there like maybe a year ago, it's definitely as dead as #b-a
		~ 22 minutes ~
20:19	mircea_popescu	sux
		~ 31 minutes ~
20:50	mircea_popescu	'Perhaps the best example of claiming credit for a problem that did not exist before is the marine chronometer. The marine chronometer enthusiasts claim it solved the timing at sea problem. Two men attempting to meat in front of Saint Paul's need to agree on a time of day, so how do you provide time for a ship at sea ? Very simple, you do not send out ships without a timetelling oracle onboard.'
		↖
20:52	mircea_popescu	babbage sleeps happily in his grave, serene in the empirical knowledge that the anglotards of today are just as fucked in the head as the anglotards of his day.
20:52	phf	wut is this even
20:52	mircea_popescu	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679531
20:52	a111	Logged on 2017-07-06 01:49 asciilifeform: 'Perhaps the best example of claiming credit for a problem that did not exist before is Bitcoin. Bitcoin enthusiasts claim it solved the “double spend” problem. A music MP3 can be copied multiple times so how do you stop digital money being spent multiple times? Very simple, you do not create a form of money that lacks a central authority.' << ahahhahaha
20:53	mircea_popescu	"very simple -- you reach backwards through time and jack your dad off!"
20:53	phf	aaah
20:54	phf	crafty, got a rise out of me!
20:54	mircea_popescu	:p
20:57	mircea_popescu	this is by no means singular derapage of one stray goat, either. "how do you check the correctness of a program ?" "very simple -- first, you build an universal corectness checker. then, you feed it your problem. done!"
20:59	mircea_popescu	cuz you know, dollars don't lack a central authority. somehow. because if we lalalala really hard pantsuit hilarity losing the elections didn't happen and totally the fed is in control of shit.
20:59	mircea_popescu	do they serve the two pump hurr durr mocha latte yet or still working on it ?
21:00	erlehmann	i wonder what “simple” in that sentence would mean. short? or “i have a beautiful solution but it does not fit into the margin of this input field”?
21:00	mircea_popescu	!~google site:trilema.com simple english
21:00	jhvh1	mircea_popescu: No matches found.
21:00	mircea_popescu	that's because you're retarded, dear google.
21:01	erlehmann	i remember reading an article about the trisectors
21:01	erlehmann	http://web.mst.edu/~lmhall/WhatToDoWhenTrisectorComes.pdf
		↖ ↖
21:01	mircea_popescu	http://trilema.com/2016/there-has-not-yet-been-seen-a-simple-thing-even-if-were-drowning-in-simple-people/
21:05	asciilifeform	the ' trisectors' piece is hilarious, erlehmann
21:05	asciilifeform	pure gold
21:05	mircea_popescu	is it the u dudley piece ?
21:06	erlehmann	y
21:09	erlehmann	> the author has never made a study of these branches of learning
21:09	erlehmann	i guess trisectorball cannot into hilbert space
21:11	asciilifeform	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-07#1679792 >> moar closely, oughta be '...simply do not send out ships out of sight of a clock tower!1'
21:11	a111	Logged on 2017-07-07 00:50 mircea_popescu: 'Perhaps the best example of claiming credit for a problem that did not exist before is the marine chronometer. The marine chronometer enthusiasts claim it solved the timing at sea problem. Two men attempting to meat in front of Saint Paul's need to agree on a time of day, so how do you provide time for a ship at sea ? Very simple, you do not send out ships without a timetelling oracle onboard.'
21:11	mircea_popescu	nope.
21:11	mircea_popescu	cuz now you've built a different kind of ship
21:11	asciilifeform	( laugh, but the brit royal society considered this... floating towers , cannon signals etc )
21:12	mircea_popescu	(clock towers -- notoriously innacurate, closer to billboards than to quartz watches)
21:12	mircea_popescu	moreover, the "central authority" bullshit is LITERALLY and quite exactly "time telling oracle"
21:12	mircea_popescu	there is no such thing as central authority, nor ever was. nor could ever be.
21:13	mircea_popescu	people pretending otherwise are pretending otherwise, like the girlies trying to get a husband by staring.\
21:13	asciilifeform	did the usg.ntp people ever get a signed version going, i wonder
21:13	asciilifeform	prolly closest stab
21:14	asciilifeform	( iirc they do finally have a signed private gps band )
21:15	asciilifeform	still won't save the receiver from.
21:15	asciilifeform	delay.
21:15	*	mircea_popescu reread his own version of dudley. are you aware fermat theorem proofs is in his list ?
21:15	mircea_popescu	kinda diminishes the piece in retrospect.
21:16	asciilifeform	nope, not diminishes
21:16	asciilifeform	recall that crackpots STILL send those
21:16	mircea_popescu	but one crackpot sent one that was correct.
21:16	asciilifeform	'elementary proofs of fermat's last'
21:17	asciilifeform	wiles, see, 'doesn't count' because 'too long and uses things not taught in kindergarten and wtf is this'
		↖
21:17	mircea_popescu	it counts to my read.
21:17	mircea_popescu	SPECIFICALLY because of that tail.
21:17	asciilifeform	yes but not to the 'trisectors'
21:18	asciilifeform	the ~same folx are to this day sending fermat proofs 3pgs long, with rotten algebra, as before wiles..
21:18	mircea_popescu	sure. and they will. but dudley's piece is now... just as pseudo, and just as crank, as theirs,
21:18	asciilifeform	map colouring proof also
21:18	mircea_popescu	o i had a lot of fun with that as a kid.
21:18	mircea_popescu	you know it got preteen girls REALLY going ?
21:18	*	mircea_popescu picked it out of an old gardner book.
21:19	asciilifeform	what about the dudley piece is in any way false ? the folx described therein, behave exactly as described, i have met them
21:19	asciilifeform	and they're still in business ( to an extent, old age took its toll, and new ones not being made )
21:19	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform but the proposition that a proof for fermat's conjecture is not worth reading past page four is not factual.
21:20	asciilifeform	~from rando with no symptoms of any mathematical study~ you betcha not worth reading !
21:20	asciilifeform	wiles was a known pro, 'in the wot', note.
21:20	asciilifeform	with known unrelated work, of quality
21:20	mircea_popescu	and the digit-of-pi dude ?
21:20	asciilifeform	ditto
21:21	mircea_popescu	i recall he was a grad student or such
21:21	asciilifeform	( he got perelmanned , yes )
21:22	erlehmann	perelmanned?
21:22	mircea_popescu	anyway, i don't per se dispute the piece can be rescued with liberal application of benevolent reading balm. i just don't seem inclined.
21:22	asciilifeform	i dun see the problem at all
21:22	mircea_popescu	well then good there's two of us.
21:23	asciilifeform	actual practitioners don't send unsolicited 'elementary proof of 1000yr problem '
21:23	erlehmann	asciilifeform wiles announced proofs at math conference, no?
21:23	mircea_popescu	i seem to recall you spending some lines discussing the problem of "unknown practitioner"
21:24	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it is theoretically a problem
21:24	asciilifeform	but has two edges.
21:24	mircea_popescu	and the faucet for when practical in your hand ?
21:25	asciilifeform	it is , i mean, problem not only for one side. as the linked piece is about.
21:25	mircea_popescu	anyway. his bad for inserting a conjecture among actually known shit. there's a difference between "we don't know if rsa is hard" and "we know you can't compress all files"
21:26	asciilifeform	interestingly we aren't (yet!!) awash in attempted proofs of 'rsa is hard'
21:26	mircea_popescu	i expect alf himself WILL voraciously read "proof" of former, no matter the source.
21:26	asciilifeform	or even of p!=np
21:26	mircea_popescu	of latter -- maybe 50% of the time
21:27	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform remember the "England -- implementation of logarithm" ? await ye till republic is actually where the idle seek their bread. then watch and be awashed art the deluge
21:28	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: if it were fashionable for folx with 3rd grade education to attempt such proofs, and i got one in the mail ( why., though, i dun work in that racket ) i might begin to do as subj link describes, and triage'em by symptoms
21:28	mircea_popescu	would you ?
21:28	mircea_popescu	allow me to quote :
21:28	asciilifeform	in practice, enthusiastic halfwits dun have much originality in their works.
		↖
21:29	mircea_popescu	"when a man grows old, and his balls grow cold, and the tip of his prick turns blue, he may in turn start do as the subj link describes, an' triage'm by symptoms"
		↖
21:29	erlehmann	asciilifeform crypto cranks need no proofs. take https://keybase.io/triplesec/ – money quote: “We don't have any exact proof of security for a cascade of block ciphers in CTR mode. But we're pretty sure”
21:29	erlehmann	WELL IF THEY ARE PRETTY SURE THAT IS GOOD ENOUGH RIGHT
21:29	mircea_popescu	keybase delivers.
21:29	asciilifeform	erlehmann: these are a snore and merit 0 brain cycles at all
21:30	mircea_popescu	i mostly like the intimation that while they may not have any exact proof, they do have sufficient inexact ones.
21:30	asciilifeform	'to the furnace. next.'
21:30	asciilifeform	inexactproof lel
21:30	mircea_popescu	a nudge is as good as fuckall to the blind bat.
21:30	erlehmann	about as useful as tingling feeling in butt
21:30	mircea_popescu	hey, this could be gay slang. "is your butt use-full yet, twink ?"
21:31	erlehmann	but then those are the ones urging ppl to upload ther private keys
21:31	erlehmann	because it's easier (trust us!!!111)
21:31	asciilifeform	erlehmann: there are societies devoted to encouraging emo teenagers to jump from roof. why not also for uploading privkeys.
21:31	mircea_popescu	in other news, i got one of those bar shot ladle things, for ease of delivery. it's a very useful implement.
21:32	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform there are ? you mean the japanese train jumping girly thing ?
21:32	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: nah in ru
21:32	asciilifeform	caused much scandalwank
21:32	mircea_popescu	amuysing factoid -- the japs got rid of the problem by making bereaved families pay fine + repairs.
21:33	erlehmann	i am glad such stuff exists, because association with it shows stupid. if i remember correctly, debian response to keybase fuckery was: we consider stuff showing up on keybase compromised, any keys showing up will be shot on sight.
21:33	mircea_popescu	apparently "don't step in front of subway, you will die" is a lot less comprehesible to 8 yo japanese girl than "if i end up having to pay a fine for it I WILL FUCKING KILL YOU!"
21:33	erlehmann	source?
21:34	mircea_popescu	just vafgue memories, nothing definhite
21:34	asciilifeform	erlehmann: pretty sure debian nao 100% keybase powered
21:35	asciilifeform	after murdock was 'suicided'
21:35	mircea_popescu	things that "just happen", inferior nonsense pseudotech gaining usg tendril adoption.
21:36	mircea_popescu	you know, like tor. sure symptom of "it's totally leaderless yah" http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-01#1678144
21:36	a111	Logged on 2017-07-01 15:38 mircea_popescu: yet these "measures of all things" exemplars of pure humanity, that honestly believe their heads are capable of any lifting, if they "just had the facts" hurr durr lol lol snort, nevertheless can't see far enough ahead to realise they're "leaderless" because their leaders are out and out bullshit, and for no other reason.
21:38	asciilifeform	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-07#1679878 << i'm curious, what's the non-blue alternative? read all?! then no time to eat, sleep... read 0? state-of-the-art solution, practiced by many. but sometimes crackpot proofs are novel in some entertaining way. hence 'triage'
21:38	a111	Logged on 2017-07-07 01:29 mircea_popescu: "when a man grows old, and his balls grow cold, and the tip of his prick turns blue, he may in turn start do as the subj link describes, an' triage'm by symptoms"
21:38	asciilifeform	just like folx kink entertaining heathen idiocies here.
21:38	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i am not protesting the passage of time, nor its effects. merely remarking on it.
21:38	asciilifeform	*link
21:39	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: if you were to get 9000 letters / d. would also ignore or triage.
21:39	mircea_popescu	i ignore and triage as it is.
21:39	asciilifeform	so whence the old blue cock
21:39	mircea_popescu	it's the sign of age, what!
21:40	mircea_popescu	!~google mark saldana, tokyo's human accidents jinshin jiko and the social meaning of train suicide
21:40	jhvh1	mircea_popescu: Tokyo's " Human Accidents ": Jinshin Jiko and the Social Meaning of ...: <http://digitalcommons.macalester.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1012%26context%3Danth_honors>; Tokyo : Earthquakes and train suicide . \| - Hong Kong Housewife: <http://hkhousewife.com/travel/tokyo-earthquakes-and-train-suicide/>; The Culture of Japan - Web Tome: <http://webtome.weebly.com/blog/the-cultu
21:41	mircea_popescu	^ erlehmann there's your source, courtesy of friendly birdy in my ear.
21:41	asciilifeform	incidentally we have these here
21:41	asciilifeform	with impressive frequency
21:42	asciilifeform	( naturally 0 , afaik, official count, but back when i rode the train daily, it was delayed 'for track problem', and telltale equipment visible later, every few mo. )
21:42	mircea_popescu	few a year isn't much of a frequency
21:43	asciilifeform	perhaps
21:43	asciilifeform	this is just along 1 particular route, note
21:43	asciilifeform	probably multiply by 20 to get estimate of whole washington.
21:44	mircea_popescu	do you know that salo joke, "hey, the muscovy went to space !" "all of them ?" "no, just one" "then what are you bothering me for"
21:44	asciilifeform	at any rate, the traditional ustard suicide, at least of grown man, is by auto. counts as 'accident' for insurance.
21:45	asciilifeform	( virtually without fail )
21:45	mircea_popescu	i wonder if the guy's cessna was insured.
21:45	asciilifeform	stack's ?
21:45	mircea_popescu	ya
21:45	asciilifeform	nfi. but recall the bernardino postal
21:45	asciilifeform	and the later wank
21:46	asciilifeform	'ohnoez, terrorists oughnt get insurance payout'
21:46	mircea_popescu	lel
21:46	mircea_popescu	except... they don't.
21:47	asciilifeform	well 'families of враги народа' (tm)(r)
21:47	mircea_popescu	bill of attainder eh.
21:47	mircea_popescu	such lolz, the kakobrelkas of today trying to deal with the logs of yesteryear.
21:47	asciilifeform	modern usg makes billofattainder with every fart
21:47	mircea_popescu	it's always an amusement to watch.
21:47	asciilifeform	for decades nao
21:50	mircea_popescu	!!up gribble
21:50	deedbot	gribble voiced for 30 minutes.
21:50	mircea_popescu	;;seen vragnaroda
21:50	gribble	vragnaroda was last seen in #trilema 4 years, 31 weeks, 5 days, 5 hours, 3 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <vragnaroda> Not until just now but that's fantastic.
21:50	erlehmann	> JR East, the line we were trying to take, is the most popular for suicides because it charges the bereaved families the least.
21:50	erlehmann	suicide tourism, lulz
21:51	mircea_popescu	good suicide will push bad suicide out of circulation!
21:51	erlehmann	shop around for a cheap death!
21:51	asciilifeform	i dun get it, why trains. why not roofs, bridges, etc
21:51	erlehmann	fear of heights? accessible places?
21:51	asciilifeform	even if street sweeper charges, what's it cost to hose a pavement.
21:51	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform people are not thinking agents. in deprs, transitions are a major consideration, much more so than any others.
21:51	mircea_popescu	trains provide numerous and precise transitions. rooftops do not.
21:52	asciilifeform	how not? climb, jump, splat..?
21:52	mircea_popescu	have you ever seen an idiot stop in a doorway ? because his brain simply shut down confronted with the transition ? "oh, room. outdoors. whoa!"
21:52	asciilifeform	actually no! i only ever read about mircea_popescu's argentines doing this
21:52	asciilifeform	and the fictional idiot in hanbot's 'yankee'
21:53	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform it just sits there. there's no transition on a roof. if anything, the lack of transitions is calming, which is why jumpers can notoriously be talked out of it. make no sudden gesutres, let him take in the outdoors, he';ll climb down.
21:53	asciilifeform	i thought only 'demonstrative emos' can be talked out
21:54	mircea_popescu	not really so much related.
21:54	asciilifeform	d00d with actual reason to call it quits - generally no
21:54	mircea_popescu	doesn't have to call it quits on calling it quits. just on calling it quits right then and there.
21:54	mircea_popescu	in practice, asciilifeform, there is.
21:55	mircea_popescu	anyway, the pretense some derp "reasoned" about suicide is ridiculous of the prime order. who exactly is so equiped that they may so reason ?
21:55	mircea_popescu	odds are he's not competent enough to reason about a cup of tea.
21:56	erlehmann	suppose people wanted to splat faster, terminal velocity for human in air is around ~200 km/h and is probably not achieved from standard issue rooftop.
21:56	mircea_popescu	erlehmann you know how to calculate this ?
21:57	mircea_popescu	!~calc (200 / 3.6)**2 / 9.8
21:57	gribble	Error: "~calc" is not a valid command.
21:57	jhvh1	mircea_popescu: (200 / 3.6)**2 / 9.8 = 314.9407911312673
21:57	erlehmann	mircea_popescu of course i have no idea how to calculate drag from human body and believe skydiver websites
21:57	erlehmann	oh wait, you meant something different
21:57	mircea_popescu	drag really dun matter in this discussion.
21:58	mircea_popescu	i just did the math to show you the thing you copy/pasted is nonsense -- surely someone jumping from 214 meters (about 100 floors) will still die.
21:58	asciilifeform	5th floor generally enough
21:58	erlehmann	ah, but terminal velocity is <--[drag]-- o\|< --[gravity]--> (rotate by 90 deg)
21:59	asciilifeform	( ~= auto wreck into stationary wall at typical usa highway speed )
21:59	erlehmann	mircea_popescu 100 floors is reasonably uncommon
21:59	asciilifeform	100 is a luxury!
21:59	mircea_popescu	erlehmann really ? what do you think drag is, magic ? where does "drag" hide all that energy, not like people splat in flames.
21:59	asciilifeform	skyscraper dun have openable windows, tourism decks also glassed in
22:00	erlehmann	i regret my remark
22:00	asciilifeform	gotta be one hell of a rich d00d, to jump from 100..
22:00	mircea_popescu	"drag" is aconsideration in this discussion for the sort of intellect that reads wikireddit and thinks haskell is a useful programming language.
22:01	mircea_popescu	http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-20#1672500
22:01	a111	Logged on 2017-06-20 16:30 phf: building wot for all comers will suffer the same fate as pgp. since nobody's using it, it turns into an arms race of easy to use, or "innovation" also known as masturbation over technical minutiae. i sort of realized this when i tried applying tmsr solutions to my cypherpunk friends: "no we don't need to research the difference between signal and telegram, just encrypt it to my gpg key and post it on dpaste or whatever." eliminated all the technical di
22:02	asciilifeform	'i need to jump but only got keys to 5th floor so no dice' said afaik nobody ever
22:02	mircea_popescu	on concrete, 5-6th floor are just about experimentally enough.
22:02	asciilifeform	'hey gotta eat pistol but all i got is 9mm' , picture
22:03	*	mircea_popescu witnessed splat left by woman jumping from 7th in tm.
22:03	mircea_popescu	there was no question of survival, indentification more a concern.
22:03	asciilifeform	more interesting when they fall on a car
22:03	asciilifeform	often looks superficially like 'died of nothing', car - 'total'
22:03	mircea_popescu	had the deency not to. plain asphalt, smooth, crushed ~every bone in her body.
22:04	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform the even worst is when the fucking moose does it.
22:04	asciilifeform	there, iirc was a chick who survived parachuteless fall from liner
22:04	erlehmann	guy in my school from parallel class suicided himself by highspeed train. there were no buildings around with more than three floors (excluding ground level).
22:04	mircea_popescu	power of queefs ?
22:04	erlehmann	like, years ago, of course
22:04	asciilifeform	( suffered from low pressure , so heart did not burst )
22:05	asciilifeform	but bones - liquid
22:05	erlehmann	this ends on a weirdo note http://hkhousewife.com/travel/tokyo-earthquakes-and-train-suicide/
22:06	erlehmann	> There’s a very scary trend online now where young people kill themselves online. How terrible is that?!
22:07	asciilifeform	pediwikidiots whine that 'ohnoez jp suicide rate' but really it is other countries that suffer from folx with excessive hanging on
22:08	asciilifeform	for what does homo redditicus remain alive?
22:08	erlehmann	upvotes, most likely
22:09	erlehmann	number goes up, mood goes up
22:09	mircea_popescu	!~google "i like to get the daily news"
22:09	gribble	Error: "~google" is not a valid command.
22:09	jhvh1	mircea_popescu: Seinfeld - George wasting his life - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DWaokRFqsdUM>; I Like to Get the Daily News \| Facebook: <https://www.facebook.com/pages/I-Like-to-Get-the-Daily-News/380623590858>; Contact Us - NY Daily News: <http://www.nydailynews.com/services/contact-us>
22:09	erlehmann	mircea_popescu thanks for link to article about social meaning of train suicide
22:10	erlehmann	for some reason the topic makes me think of the book “the queer art of failure”
22:10	erlehmann	but i can't really put it together
22:13	erlehmann	asciilifeform i think mircea_popescu may be onto something with awareness of transitions. there was this one organization for sucide help (something swiss) and many people who get greenlighted by them actually do not kill themselves.
22:14	erlehmann	dignitas, swiss non-profit for assisting with suicide
22:15	mircea_popescu	it's the state-of-the-art re the topic, from people who actually study it as opposed to uswank it.
		~ 1 hours 2 minutes ~
23:17	BingoBoingo	!~ticker --market all
23:18	jhvh1	BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2574.98, vol: 8534.13409713 \| BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2536.007, vol: 3411.41189 \| Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2563.0, vol: 9818.74684715 \| BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2616.894, vol: 6255.96960000 \| Kraken BTCUSD last: 2591.426, vol: 3428.32639488 \| Volume-weighted last average: 2577.142686

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