Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-03-01 | 2017-03-03 → ↓
01:21 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
01:21 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1222.0, vol: 5837.97674068 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1197.001, vol: 6466.22206 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1221.8, vol: 26110.22608067 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1151.3572, vol: 5485.60340000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1223.205, vol: 2296.66480145 | Volume-weighted last average: 1210.05927445
01:21 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all --currency eur
01:22 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCEUR last: 1158.8226, vol: 5837.69994068 | BTC-E BTCEUR last: 1147.846, vol: 94.73656 | BTCChina BTCEUR last: 1092.7196, vol: 5482.10340000 | Kraken BTCEUR last: 1154.1, vol: 8929.95910755 | Volume-weighted last average: 1138.88620387
01:22 ben_vulpes great
01:22 ben_vulpes again
01:22 ben_vulpes great
01:22 ben_vulpes again
01:27 BingoBoingo Make World Great Again!
01:35 BingoBoingo Make 2017 2013 Againe!
~ 46 minutes ~
02:22 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/03/fiat-currencies-appear-to-enter-period-of-sustained-malaise/ << Qntra - Fiat Currencies Appear To Enter Period Of Sustained Malaise
~ 26 minutes ~
02:49 ben_vulpes in other truly top notch lols, "Moreover, the executive order forces Oregon to violate its own laws against discrimination, frustrating Oregon's sovereign interest in providing a welcoming home to people from all over the world"
02:49 ben_vulpes oregon is a sovereign, dontchaknow! has...interests!
02:50 BingoBoingo 4 srs though, Oregon was founded to explicitly NOT be open to all
02:50 ben_vulpes tell a nigga bout it
02:51 ben_vulpes those interests are pretty much providing a home to the royal sons of whereverthefuckistan, and effete boys with which they frolic
~ 2 hours 56 minutes ~
05:47 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/pronouncements-on-camp/ << Trilema - Pronouncements on camp
~ 3 hours 17 minutes ~
09:05 asciilifeform in other noose, https://archive.is/D3jVT << 'An editor on the board of a journal published by the prestigious American Psychological Association (APA) has been asked to resign in a controversy over data sharing in peer review.
09:06 asciilifeform Gert Storms — who says he won’t step down — is one of a few hundred scientists who have vowed that, from the start of this year, they will begin rejecting papers if authors won’t publicly share the underlying data, or explain why they can’t.'
09:06 asciilifeform 'The journal's editor, Robert Greene, wrote back to say that Storms’s stance set “a terrible precedent” because it was unfair to the author of the paper and opposed the APA’s policies and the guidelines followed by other reviewers. “Given that your policy conflicts with that of the journal, I think that it's best that you step down from the editorial board,” he wrote.'
~ 1 hours 9 minutes ~
10:15 asciilifeform !!up bobbie_pasta
10:15 deedbot bobbie_pasta voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 22 minutes ~
10:37 shinohai http://archive.is/rcxIg <<< Run Bitcoin Unlimited!!!!
10:45 asciilifeform !~later tell mircea_popescu how do you picture tx fee working with non-divisible coin ?
10:45 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
~ 37 minutes ~
11:23 mircea_popescu i don't.
11:24 asciilifeform so it'd have to be one of those schemes where mining isn't even a thing; or at the very least has nothing to do with cementing tx
11:24 * asciilifeform does not know a working, even in principle, algo for these.
11:25 mircea_popescu how do you imagine tx fee working with "mining is a bug" ?
11:25 mircea_popescu no fees, no problem.
11:25 asciilifeform other than - possibly - the matrix thing
11:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the 'every user a currency issuer' is the only 'solution' i currently know to 'mining-is-a-bug'
11:25 mircea_popescu that is mathematically equivalent to "no fee".
11:25 asciilifeform and it rather resembles those infamous star drive engines, e.g., alcubierre's drive
11:26 mircea_popescu yep. i vituperated against the nonsesne in the 2011s, because well, nonsense.
11:27 asciilifeform one of the problems classical mined blocks solved was - universal event ordering
11:28 mircea_popescu quite. there's 0 incentive for people to stick to a chain otherwise.
11:28 asciilifeform ( and again i can picture a 'coin' lacking cemented event ordering . but it would not be a 'coin' in any reasonable sense of today. only a bag full of promises. )
11:28 mircea_popescu an ~unordered~ bag.
11:29 asciilifeform aha
11:29 mircea_popescu people fail to correctly comprehend the batshit insanity that is an unorderd bag because common reality graciously provides default orderings in all cases
11:29 asciilifeform without cemented ordering, the concept of 'double spend' cannot be defined
11:29 mircea_popescu this is a resource oft taken for granted
11:29 asciilifeform (which spend is 'the' spend? and which -- the double)
11:31 asciilifeform it is worth recalling the gedankenexperiment where it turns out that all you'd need to build 'martian bank' on earth, is if martians merely supplied an infallible 'martian clock', a service whereby they take a string S , at regular, say, daily, interval, and return its hash H
↖ ↖ ↖
11:32 asciilifeform then you have the ordering. and 'mining' can consist of, e.g., finding twin-primes and rsa-staking the claim to them, then submitting to martiandeedbot.
11:33 asciilifeform ( and a tx can be a once-per-Hinterval thing where you gotta roll in the previous interval's hash. and the day's tx form the day's H. )
11:33 asciilifeform this is quite trivial .
11:33 asciilifeform but there is no martian clock.
11:33 mircea_popescu and timekeeping for free doesn't seem to be a tenable proposition.
11:33 mircea_popescu not even the marine chronometer dudes aimed to make it COSTLESS
11:35 asciilifeform as phf's b00k illustrates, the cost of the chronometers remained a serious boojum well into 1900s
11:35 mircea_popescu aha.
11:35 asciilifeform but even the finest handmade chronometer does not approach in cost, the cost of ~synchronization~
11:36 mircea_popescu which is why there's a fee.
11:36 asciilifeform esp. synchronization in the face of enemy action
11:37 mircea_popescu no enemy can measure up to the voids.
11:40 asciilifeform for sake of argument, let's draw the engineless car, and then possibly one day can conceive of the engine. say all C coins exist at genesis. (how distributed to owners -- outside the scope here.) each consist of a lamport pubkey;
11:41 asciilifeform to spend a coin, its owner obtains (out of band) a new lamport pubkey from the new owner, and signs it.
11:41 mircea_popescu it's not clear what the meaning of "coin" is supposed to be without the owner.
11:41 asciilifeform then broadcasts this.
11:41 asciilifeform think of it as land.
11:41 mircea_popescu suppose i think of it as random strings.
11:42 mircea_popescu otherwise this too much resembles the ai problem of thought();
11:42 mircea_popescu well... "ai" at any rate.
11:42 asciilifeform now, this thing just sits and rusts, because it cannot move. there is no way to prevent anybody from signing multiple, conflicting transfers.
11:43 mircea_popescu there is no sane way to lay claim of ownership to random strings
11:43 mircea_popescu and no, "i was the first to mash 1 into the kbd eighty-nine million times" is not it.
11:43 asciilifeform right, because the only way to demonstrate ownership is to transfer it to the party being demonstrated to.
11:44 mircea_popescu right, within some sort of system
11:44 mircea_popescu pre-defined etc.
11:45 asciilifeform now this car has not only no engine, but no wheels, there is no incentive for ~anybody to even try to store a coherent history of the world.
11:45 asciilifeform much less to do so in real time.
11:45 mircea_popescu the circle stayed round this time around.
11:46 asciilifeform now to complete this sad picture, i have nfi where to get any such thing as an engine, or wheels, for this machine.
11:46 asciilifeform it is approx. as interesting as davinci's chopper.
11:46 mircea_popescu no, because he at least had talent as a draughtsman.
11:47 asciilifeform aha, you won't be seeing this one in any art gallery.
11:47 mircea_popescu this, incidentally, is the sum-total intellectual output of tardstalk "bitcoin theory" thinking for 2011.
11:48 asciilifeform so afaik we're solidly stuck with ye olde tx, blocks, PoW.
11:48 mircea_popescu myeah.
11:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i admit that i have not attempted to unearth and catalogue the 2011 folxs' attempts to square the circle.
11:48 mircea_popescu no loss whatever.
11:49 asciilifeform can only assume that if there had been some interesting find, someone here might remember it.
11:49 asciilifeform but afaik it summed to 0.
11:49 mircea_popescu i certainly would have.
11:51 asciilifeform and so it also appears that we're stuck living with cuttable coins.
11:52 mircea_popescu whether stuck or not remains debatable, but what's certain is that this gal's going straight home from the battered women shelter.
11:52 asciilifeform (barring some crackpotitude where you somehow buy 'casks' in bulk, a solid coin at a time )
12:02 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: do you have some -- rigorous or not -- idea of how 'remains debatable' ? because afaik you gotta square this circle if you want noncuttables.
12:02 mircea_popescu i have nfi. same way everything is done that we don't know how to do.
12:03 asciilifeform btw i have a terrible solution, that technically works, but is barfalicious
12:03 asciilifeform i wonder if by now mircea_popescu also guessed what it is.
12:04 mircea_popescu hm ?
12:04 asciilifeform morts.
12:04 mircea_popescu what, you want to sacrifice virgins ?
12:04 asciilifeform your 'fee' is a small positive probability of losing your entire tx to the miner.
12:04 danielpbarron heh, eulora style
12:04 mircea_popescu terrible profile for a paymeny medium.
12:05 asciilifeform danielpbarron: you folx did this?! lol!!
12:05 mircea_popescu but yes, eulora style.
12:05 * asciilifeform has ~nfi re eulora mechanics
12:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i'm involved, remember.
12:05 danielpbarron some clicks in eulora, you have no idea what comes out and most of the time you don't like it
12:05 shinohai ^
12:05 asciilifeform but yes, this is one way to pay a % of something that cannot be cut.
12:05 asciilifeform 'you'll lose 1 of N'
12:06 shinohai Eulora is the perfect engine of the cardinal rule of unfairness.
12:06 asciilifeform at any rate i have difficulty picturing users of coin swallowing this.
12:06 asciilifeform (though users of suitcases of benjies do. there is a certain P of losing the payload to usg en route)
12:06 asciilifeform or of the boat, to the sea serpents. etc.
12:07 danielpbarron that isn't to say there aren't ways to find clicks that work well, or that in the long run the seemingly bad ones don't pay off
12:07 mircea_popescu note that boats never became currency. almost everything else did.
12:07 mircea_popescu there's even a piece in the founding papers about it.
12:07 asciilifeform to this very day satellite industry lives with payload loss P that would have been familiar to columbus.
12:08 asciilifeform but yes,not currency.
12:12 asciilifeform but, upstack, afaik the cold equations have no mercy, if you want miners to deal with tx, gotta pay fee, and fee has to somehow come out of txer's pocket .
12:15 asciilifeform now iirc we touched on the crackpottery where a ~tx~ carries PoW, and tx issuers somehow have to get in a single-file queue to avoid orphaning one another, and at a certain point 'lucky winner' (in practice, folx with disproportionate - a la today's miners - hash power) crosses a threshhold PoW and gets to finalize a block.
12:16 asciilifeform a 'cask' system would make the queue at least thinkable. but still very painful.
12:16 mircea_popescu it's not clear the notion oflbock is actually useful outside of "no hash per tx" sort of collectivism.
12:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the ordering.
12:16 mircea_popescu a block is like a bus - eschews the need for every child and woman to maintain an engine.
12:16 mircea_popescu no, because you may require txn to include previous txn.
12:16 mircea_popescu tx-sized-block.
12:17 mircea_popescu there's no rule that this space fortress must seat > 1.
12:17 asciilifeform where do new coinz come from ?
12:17 asciilifeform ( if answer is 'nowhere, all coins exist at genesis' -- we're back to the rusting engineless thing )
12:18 mircea_popescu from difficulty.
12:18 mircea_popescu each txn gets its difficulty coins on top of whatever.
12:18 mircea_popescu 1 btc input 1.1 btc output 10mn difficulty txn checks out.
12:19 mircea_popescu monetary mass at all points = aggregate difficulty to date. it's even (sanely) inflationary.
12:20 mircea_popescu burn a watt, get a scrip coin.
12:20 asciilifeform what's the incentive to relay anything ?
12:22 asciilifeform ( other problem is that orphaning -- and, likely, of almost arbitrary length -- would be the rule, rather than the exception. )
12:22 mircea_popescu yea well.
12:23 asciilifeform it's another 'star drive'.
12:23 asciilifeform 'all you need is a miniature black hole and some duct tape! otherwise, 100% solid physics!1111'
12:24 mircea_popescu unrelatedly : both the "conservative" and the "nazi" candidates to french elections are being prosecuted by the "state" socialism for hallucinated misdeeds (they hired family members as assistents fictitiously|!11). the influence of inept obamaism and his kidnapping of french candidate last time around clearly left no scars, hurr.
12:24 mircea_popescu they're both pissing on the french legal system, of course. obviously trump left no marks either.
12:24 asciilifeform i seem to recall that it ~worked~
12:24 mircea_popescu speaking of which last bit, you should see how vocal macri is these days! he's suddenly found himself very opinionated and shit!
12:25 mircea_popescu everyone's on all fours after the republican electorate, somehow. INEXPLICABLY, i guess, because trilema rather than the new york times told them to, and of course everyone listens to one of those not the other!
12:25 mircea_popescu asciilifeform from an us pov it backfired miserably.
12:26 asciilifeform how's that? they wanted the d00d out of the fr election -- and he was out.
12:26 mircea_popescu no. they wanted sarkozy, and figured taking him out would help. taking him out propelled a) hollande and b) le pen.
12:26 mircea_popescu neither of these are good, and in any case the us' days in europe are numbered. trump is mostly saving face with all the rhetoric.
12:27 asciilifeform well sorta why usg is setting off the demolition charges (the syrian horde) in eu
12:27 asciilifeform 'we can't have it? aite, scuttling nao'
12:28 mircea_popescu sounds just about inept enough to have come out of the dept of state sewing circle.
12:28 asciilifeform the folx who could -- any day of the week -- give the order to have all 'migrants' met with flamethrowers - answer to exactly usg dos sewing circle
↖
12:29 asciilifeform and so they don;t.
12:29 mircea_popescu this is so naive i'm not going to entertain it. let's get back to cryptocoinz naivites.
12:31 asciilifeform aite. but i'm all outta circle-squaring methods, having listed all of the ones i presently know of.
12:32 * asciilifeform bbl.
~ 16 minutes ~
12:48 ben_vulpes can anyone recommend a paper or book with a rigorous definition of "computationally secure pseudo-random number generator"?
~ 20 minutes ~
13:09 asciilifeform ok i cannot resist answering ben_vulpes . because he will find answer in encyclopaedia, but it will not be an actual answer, but only a thought-extinguisher.
↖
13:10 asciilifeform the mandatory thread is here -- http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-01#1620768 ( and linked subthreads with mircea_popescu . )
13:10 a111 Logged on 2017-03-01 22:04 asciilifeform: it keeps coming back
13:10 asciilifeform a 'secure prng' is fundamentally THE SAME animal as the 'secure hash' and the 'secure blockcipher'.
↖ ↖ ↖
13:11 asciilifeform the prng has a time parameter, but it is spurious, it is really just the same as a hash, with same requirements
13:11 asciilifeform in both cases, you wish to prevent inversion of the function
13:12 asciilifeform in the hash's case, for anyone to go from H(S) to S ; in prng -- for anyone to go from any section of the output stream, to the seed .
13:12 asciilifeform you can see that they are the same, because an 'ideal' prng can be trivially turned into a ciphrator; or a hasher ;
13:13 asciilifeform ideal hasher - into a prng (as pictured in, e.g., casks piece intro) ; an ideal cipher - into either of the two others.
13:13 asciilifeform they are sides of the same triangle.
↖ ↖
13:14 asciilifeform however the triangle is imaginary, because -- as you will learn from the linked thread tree earlier (and not from any public literature ! elsewhere afaik) -- we know about complexity classes , as discovered by cook et al ; but we do NOT know of any means of generating ~instances~ of problems falling into given class with ~guaranteed~ average-case hardness.
13:16 mircea_popescu average case is a cop out.
13:16 mircea_popescu easiest case lower bound is the requirement.
13:16 mircea_popescu hardest case upper bound is the discussion literature
13:16 asciilifeform aha, hardest-case is ~entirely uninteresting in crypto
13:17 mircea_popescu they are discussing "how easy it is" and mislabel it as "how hard it is". but at no point is their discussion actually about how hard anything is.
13:17 asciilifeform however mircea_popescu , this is not quite right, the 'lower bound' is always O(1) for the d00d who knows the key !
13:17 asciilifeform and the d00d who does ~not~ know the key, has a nonzero P of guessing whole thing !
13:17 mircea_popescu easiest nondegenerate case lower bound
13:17 asciilifeform so it is always a matter of avg case.
13:18 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the value of a winning lottery ticket = the value of the prize. lucky guys are worth money.
13:18 asciilifeform what you want to prove (and nobody has, for any system) is that the necessary work is equivalent to brute force guess.
13:18 mircea_popescu that';d work.
13:19 asciilifeform ( according to maslennikov, kgb directorate of crypto struggled with the fundamental boojum and simply gave up, and turned to turd polishing )
13:20 asciilifeform logicgate-poverty, according to him, prevented asymmetric crypto from taking off in su, and so this ^ was the obsession. for a while.
13:22 asciilifeform upstack : ben_vulpes : the 'triangle' is aka 'trapdoor function', and it is not known whether they actually exist. ( folx go around pretending that they exist. does not make it so. )
13:23 mircea_popescu the entire story of the "olympiad problems" (the fly between trains thing et al) is a fine indication of just how hard this sort of thing is, irl.
13:23 asciilifeform much of academitard 'cryptography' is an elaborate dance around the fact that nobody knows, publicly, of any solid axioms that were unknown to von neumann.
↖
13:23 mircea_popescu which is why "solve problem x" is undergraduate work ; prove solution is optimal is lifetime work.
13:24 asciilifeform aha.
13:24 asciilifeform sometimes 'prove that a solution ~exists~ is lifetime work.
13:24 asciilifeform or 10 lifetimes.
13:24 mircea_popescu in other news im reading this hemingway interview and why the fuck was this guy such a dork and why does he only go out with ugly women.
13:29 shinohai I recently watched that new Hemingway movie .... it was mildly entertaining.
13:29 shinohai Coulda been the rum that made it palatable though.
13:32 mircea_popescu new ? hasn't he been dead for 50 years ?
13:38 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: ty, mircea_popescu's line that '(I suspect USGtards would call it a "PRNG")' had me thinking in that line
13:52 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: the few honest cryptographers that exist, will prove that your arse is staked on ~this here~ set of unproven conjectures, and nothing else.
13:53 asciilifeform but this is small comfort, just like to say that honest undertaker will at least make sure you are actually dead before burying
13:54 asciilifeform incidentally if you can prove that trapdoors exist, you've necessarily proven that P!=NP.
13:55 mircea_popescu incidentally, this discussion vaguely reminds me of pound
13:56 mircea_popescu "i will know what part of poetry can NOT be lost in translation."
14:02 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> in other news im reading this hemingway interview and why the fuck was this guy such a dork and why does he only go out with ugly women. << Beer goggles
14:03 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> new ? hasn't he been dead for 50 years ? << Ate an abercrombie and fitch shotgun, likely movie about the guy
14:03 mircea_popescu but pound didn't drink and did you see what fucking chinplowers he hang out with ?
14:03 mircea_popescu i dunno why they even make these women that are half chin.
14:04 BingoBoingo Well, chin is like an off switch
14:04 mircea_popescu ha
14:04 BingoBoingo Just apply torque!
14:05 mircea_popescu are you suggesting they're trying to capture more torque from environment ? adaptative megalochin ?
14:06 BingoBoingo Maybe? Maybe hemmingways select womyn for chin, because easy to turn off when aggitated?
14:06 mircea_popescu cuz blurry vision cuz whisky ?
14:07 BingoBoingo AHA, just like large print text
14:20 ben_vulpes https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-announce&m=148839684520133&w=2
14:20 ben_vulpes open bsd mitm
14:21 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i dun even grasp how this is a vuln, it isn't as if 802.11 has rsa-authenticated endpoints to begin with
14:21 asciilifeform 'toy crypto auth is slightly easier to forge than the usual five minutes', noose at eleven.
14:24 * BingoBoingo assumed WPA was routinely MITM'd for what it is
14:24 mircea_popescu incidentally re http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-02#1621225 : a large part of the stagnancy in applied number theory for the past ... o hey, it's a century soon! has to do with everyone wanting to do the work without doing the work.
14:24 a111 Logged on 2017-03-02 18:23 asciilifeform: much of academitard 'cryptography' is an elaborate dance around the fact that nobody knows, publicly, of any solid axioms that were unknown to von neumann.
14:25 mircea_popescu it seems altogether unlikely this particular truth will come out of more futzing with algebraic strucutres
14:25 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: spot on, as always
14:25 mircea_popescu but the lazy just won't let go of the holy ring. the idle complification, towards vector spaces, latices et all is just the toil of avoiding doing any work.
14:25 ben_vulpes also http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39140100
14:27 asciilifeform lel nato-lite
14:28 mircea_popescu lmao.
14:28 mircea_popescu i hope they're only drafting women, yes ?
14:28 ben_vulpes in which donny t demonstrates complete twitter mastery: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/836933725602656256
14:28 mircea_popescu why the fuck would a male as much as spit for sweden
14:38 shinohai !~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/PArAt/?raw=true
14:38 jhvh1 shinohai: The operation succeeded.
14:39 mircea_popescu in random lulz re the luminaries of this so called english literature and their chinxcavator belles : ezra pound had some 23yo named dorothy dropped on his head by her mother ; he also was fucking olga the violinist, who some friends dropped on his head when he was complaining he's been in paris for months and doesn't even have a mistress.
14:39 mircea_popescu olga got caught, and delivered a daughter in summer 1925, which she didn't really feel like raising. ezra told dorothy later that year ; she left for egypt *by herself* and came back next march. pregnant.
14:40 mircea_popescu kid, named omar, went to be raised in england.
14:41 mircea_popescu by you know, the rich mother of the wife-slut. other kid (mary) grew up without shoes in the house of a peasant, who was paid 20 bux a month for it.
14:42 BingoBoingo ty shinohai
14:42 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/03/hoaxtoshi-returns-with-fiatist-patent-wank-forgets-tissues/ << Qntra - Hoaxtoshi Returns With Fiatist Patent Wank, Forgets Tissues
14:43 mircea_popescu lmao
14:51 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
14:51 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1268.12, vol: 6613.32714439 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1251.287, vol: 8253.53327 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1269.9, vol: 29174.75084658 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1161.165852, vol: 6892.66030000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1260.493, vol: 2777.56509707 | Volume-weighted last average: 1252.38075479
14:51 BingoBoingo Dat stabilitit
~ 47 minutes ~
15:39 mircea_popescu and in other americana, http://68.media.tumblr.com/6775e30043c1371eb7e80f4eec3d372c/tumblr_mlbbe3Vl5q1rgz1hoo1_1280.jpg
15:42 ben_vulpes awwww ye
15:48 asciilifeform q for prbologists, entomologists : why is schnorr signature algo so attractive to the prb folx ?
15:49 asciilifeform ( iirc it is simply a variant of ecdsa. )
15:50 mircea_popescu simplest ?
15:50 mircea_popescu expired patent just about the time iirc
15:51 mircea_popescu there's this nonsensical view that recently-expired patents are better tech because you know, "newer" (than older expired patents, presumably, for whatever sense this makes)
15:51 asciilifeform why would a coin implementer give half a fuck re patents
15:52 asciilifeform what is this, the gif wars ?
15:52 mircea_popescu same reason he'd write against windows c.
15:52 asciilifeform nuts.
15:53 asciilifeform the 'let's use anything, ANYTHING but rsa' thing really grates on me.
↖ ↖ ↖
15:53 mircea_popescu on the face. there may be some merit to it in that : a) the chinese are mentally dull. i mean this specifically in the sense of chinese born baby ~= piece of furniture, funcially incapable of either finding a novel idea, evaluating it, or figuring out off own steam that should do this ; b) the euros are cuckolds. this means they're less likely to consider idea if the womenz boo hoo than if the womenz don't boo hoo ; c) the wo
15:53 mircea_popescu menz boo hoo certain things, so satoshi ends up following.
15:53 mircea_popescu it's inexcusable, but either a or b may explain.
15:54 asciilifeform usa is a mighty twin-engined lulzengine of a+b.
15:55 mircea_popescu ah listen, there's also http://eprint.iacr.org/2012/029.pdf
15:57 asciilifeform i'ma put this on the conveyor
15:58 asciilifeform but the result of reading this (spoiler!) for asciilifeform is usually mega-disappointment
15:59 asciilifeform 'based on these unproven conjectures, and one or more unproven conjectures on which our logic relies, and one or more circularly-defined conditions, this scheme is secure, for our toy definition of secure that we will not share'
↖
16:00 asciilifeform aaaaaanything, anything to avoid handing giving back the yet-unfucked-once pig back to the late von neumann, and going back to sweeping airport floor.
16:01 mircea_popescu better than most.
16:01 mircea_popescu iirc guy showes group homomorphisms offer no better.
16:02 mircea_popescu but decent overall discussion.
16:10 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: what means "giving back the yet-unfucked-once ping back to the late von neumann"?
16:10 ben_vulpes pig*
16:10 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: 0 provable improvements on otp.
16:10 asciilifeform oooh hey hey hey lbj. i finally found out why prb folx like schnorr.
↖ ↖ ↖ ↖
16:10 ben_vulpes ah
16:11 asciilifeform aaaapparently it is supposed to be homomorphic over multisigulation. i.e. you can glom multiple sigs of same string into 'one value'.
16:11 asciilifeform classic prbism -- where is the proof that this does not create a phantom n+1st 'signer' ?
16:11 asciilifeform ( who can then spend . )
16:12 asciilifeform ' but oh, we'll save some bits!! '
16:12 asciilifeform ' but of course not by abolishing 'scripts' or preventing spamolade tx, that'd be racist '
16:23 ben_vulpes https://gradybritton.com/advertising/engaging-political-action-brand-rising-noise-without-alienating-consumers-2/ solid chuckles
16:23 ben_vulpes the other day, one of these wha ads streaked across my vision and i was amused at how /female/ the campaign is
16:23 ben_vulpes "in the pussy? in the mouth? in the butt? YES."
16:24 ben_vulpes cracks in the edifice of ideological hegemony are starting to show, though: "You have the choice between standing for a cause or standing against whoever disagrees with you. One choice may result in a boycott. The other can build a bridge."
16:25 veen linked from above: http://www.breitbart.com/dumpkelloggs/ << "bigotry at your breakfast table" haw haw
↖
16:27 ben_vulpes "tearing libtards arms off and beating them to death with them since before you quit facebook"
16:33 trinque remember that country that cared whether a breakfast cereal company had a political opinion?
16:33 trinque neither do I.
16:33 ben_vulpes i like my highly-refined corn byproducts generously seasoned with WOKE
16:35 ben_vulpes it's how i differentiate myself from the basket of undesirables; their hrcb comes with penises which is just i can't even
16:37 trinque in other news, BingoBoingo's deed txn 771d53910d31b6cc038d457f57579ef60da9b29271a6e5f82df0ec8e9e32c50b has yet to confirm. I might have to increase deed fee a tad.
16:38 trinque this is shocking because I hear there's no fee market!11!1
16:38 trinque lol
16:48 veen in other outdoor recreation of yesteryear, http://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdycwgRQ1N1rlsqyto1_1280.jpg
16:49 danielpbarron mega-vibrator
16:52 ben_vulpes see also http://imgur.com/a/jiX1g
17:00 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes the stuff you read
17:01 mircea_popescu grady fucking britton ? holy hell.
17:03 mircea_popescu been in business for what, 50 years, NEVER did anything above "the Random Q Nobody Highschool 10 Year Reunion" complete set of flyers + leaflets PLUS those napkin paper rings!
17:04 veen they're on the map here for the 'planned parenthood by any other name' campaign
17:05 mircea_popescu they're on the map in new york as "those dumb broads from almost west coast". at some point people were writing fanfic they're so ridoinculous.
17:05 mircea_popescu WHAT WOULD GRADY BRITT DO!
17:07 mircea_popescu trinque> this is shocking because I hear there's no fee market!11!1 << zing
17:08 mircea_popescu veen you'd think the god damned bears of yesteryear would fucking shave before going within inches of a glorified lawnmower
17:08 mircea_popescu but naaaaw
17:08 mircea_popescu their mommy gave them that bush and by god they'll take it to paradise via the retirement home!
17:09 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: i am but a lol-sniffing pig of the web
17:10 mircea_popescu butt alol!
17:21 ben_vulpes i have no butt and i must lol
~ 20 minutes ~
17:42 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: might be interesting to add fee plot to your block viewer tool
17:42 asciilifeform ( how many satoshi/byte avg ? median ? how many free riders..? etc )
17:42 mircea_popescu ^
17:43 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-02#1621317 << january noose neh
17:43 a111 Logged on 2017-03-02 21:25 veen: linked from above: http://www.breitbart.com/dumpkelloggs/ << "bigotry at your breakfast table" haw haw
17:46 ben_vulpes yeah, that does sound useful
~ 15 minutes ~
18:02 asciilifeform in other lulz, https://kukuruku.co/post/the-collapse-of-the-unix-philosophy
↖
18:03 mircea_popescu o look, i can read the stuff from the chan on websites a few months later now! well done team andreesseen! totally made a difference!
18:03 asciilifeform the dung beetles, gotta roll dung
18:04 mircea_popescu "This article was written hastily, and I don’t want to further improve it. You’re lucky I wrote it. Therefore, I may provide some facts without source links." << i lolled. and also lost interest.
18:04 mircea_popescu !#s zuleika
18:04 a111 0 results for "zuleika", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=zuleika
18:04 mircea_popescu anyone familiar with the story of zuleika dobson ?
18:04 * asciilifeform isn't
18:05 mircea_popescu not entirely terrible early 1900s parody of early 2000s hollywood
18:05 mircea_popescu anyway, it's about a girl who can't take seriously any online dweebs who attempt to immitate her style without comprehending the substance and under the guise of a very thin excuse omit to address their thanks plainly. or something like that.
18:06 asciilifeform my stack overflowed parsing that
18:06 mircea_popescu kinda the point.
18:17 asciilifeform 'As we’ve already seen in the example with /etc/passwd, the widespread use of plain text can lead to performance problems. ' << and dynamically loaded crapolade, orc-glyphs-in-everything, dbus, et al -- don't, apparently ?!
18:17 * asciilifeform barfs the thing back out
18:18 asciilifeform ' It would be much easier if we used JSON or XML for system configs. Or maybe some binary format. Especially for those configs that are constantly read by different programs. As a result, they need a good read rate (it’s higher in binary formats).' << gold.
18:18 asciilifeform somebody help d00d install winblowz, apparently he had problem..?
18:19 asciilifeform 'We need LC_ALL here to be sure that the date will take exactly three words in the output of ls.' << this is exactly the plasma tv raft from mircea_popescu's article with the crazy woman
18:19 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524864 <<
18:19 a111 Logged on 2016-08-18 22:32 asciilifeform: 'The situation is somewhat akin to a retarded girlfriend trying to flood your apartment, that not only opens all the faucets and stops all the drains, but also takes the "extremely clever" measure of puncturing the water pipes, so she can then preciously inform you that "turning off the faucets won't help" and you must work with her to somehow create a raft out of your widescreen TV so as to navigate the marshy terrain that used to b
18:20 mircea_popescu hey that's a pretty good simile.
18:21 asciilifeform 'linux suxx because you will be covered in shit, that we made sure to smear on every floor time and furniture inside it, it should be more like microshit'
18:21 asciilifeform *floor tile
18:23 * asciilifeform maxed dosimeter. bbl.
~ 1 hours 14 minutes ~
19:37 ben_vulpes > I guess and I don't bother to check, so check it yourself
19:37 ben_vulpes nope and nope.
19:49 asciilifeform in other lulz, http://www.qsl.net/k/k0ff//old%20files/1C%20Working%20Copy/yyy/
~ 22 minutes ~
20:12 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5134FB86F39E49F32E728CE8F77F4767707BF27E853C9237FBC4323D63AFE9C1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1156...8047 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '178.254.50.147 (ssh-rsa key from 178.254.50.147 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (kachelofen-profis.de. DE)
20:12 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5134FB86F39E49F32E728CE8F77F4767707BF27E853C9237FBC4323D63AFE9C1 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1047...4447 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '178.254.50.147 (ssh-rsa key from 178.254.50.147 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (kachelofen-profis.de. DE)
20:15 mircea_popescu http://www.qsl.net/k/k0ff//old%20files/1C%20Working%20Copy/yyy/Cyclotron/TR%2030%20Cyclotron.htm << therer's something for alf
20:15 mircea_popescu looks like it might fit a double garage / yacht barn
20:17 mircea_popescu proven reliability and windows 2000
20:17 ben_vulpes > TR 30 uses the familiar Windows 2000 operating system with graphical representations of the entire radiochemical process
~ 16 minutes ~
20:33 deedbot http://www.contravex.com/2017/03/02/wasting-time/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Wasting time.
20:37 asciilifeform meanwhile, in monkeystan, https://southfront.org/steam-store-removes-syrian-warfare-game-because-its-too-pro-russian
20:40 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BB6C3A426BFB76932E8872E99E2D52B9D8DD7824FF6B1CE792294B78B122AD0C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1772...6483 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '218.189.190.58 (ssh-rsa key from 218.189.190.58 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown HK)
20:40 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BB6C3A426BFB76932E8872E99E2D52B9D8DD7824FF6B1CE792294B78B122AD0C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1400...9707 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '218.189.190.58 (ssh-rsa key from 218.189.190.58 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown HK)
20:46 mircea_popescu where "too pro russian" means about the same as "too pornographic" : there's ANY item where the eternally losing side irl fails to win in fantasy.
20:52 asciilifeform approx
20:52 asciilifeform linked mainly for the 'bitlove' approach
20:52 asciilifeform or what was it called, that derp
20:53 asciilifeform ( here , role was played by 'czech co' )
~ 31 minutes ~
21:24 shinohai http://mimisbrunnr.cascadianhacker.com/blocks/455450 <<< Boy does ViaBTC love mining dem empty blocks
21:25 shinohai !!up john_cocktail
21:25 deedbot john_cocktail voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 20 minutes ~
21:45 asciilifeform lol , 'fee market' aha.
21:47 shinohai Bitcoin Unlimited gonna fix all our problemz with "Parallel Validation" http://archive.is/664nt
21:47 john_cocktail lel
21:50 asciilifeform shinohai: lel, 'sibling blocks'
21:51 asciilifeform and, mega-unsurprise, 0 mention of the actual bottleneck (db)
21:51 john_cocktail who cares if takes a day to validate a block?
21:51 asciilifeform betcha mircea_popescu had nfi that there could be such a thing as 'sibling blocks' !111
21:52 asciilifeform john_cocktail: recall how difficulty is derived ?
~ 18 minutes ~
22:11 trinque asciilifeform: so you disagree with the diminishing block reward, or what?
22:14 asciilifeform trinque: no, consider what happens ( in bitcoin ) if block takes longer to verify than to produce .
22:14 asciilifeform consistently.
22:15 trinque I'm only commenting that it's factual that fees have been increasing for years
22:16 asciilifeform trinque: it is true! but at the same time they mine empty blocks, and blocks full of free-tx..
22:16 trinque dunno that it's the same "they". folks gunning for idiocies like "unlimited" might be mining empty blocks for political reasons
22:16 asciilifeform what i'd like to learn is, whether fee-per-ullage-byte has moved. and in what direction.
22:17 asciilifeform (i.e. fee earner by miners per available byte of space . )
22:17 shinohai trinque: that is precisely why ViaBTC does it.
22:18 trinque ah, idiots.
22:20 asciilifeform trinque: the full blox are also full 'for political reasons' ( usg spamolade )
22:20 asciilifeform quite likely why the old-coins-move-for-free thing still exists.
22:21 trinque having watched deedbot transactions for quite a while, I can at least say that once 0.001 fee confirmed almost immediately
22:21 trinque now it's looking like I'll need at least 0.0015 to 0.002 to get in
22:21 trinque asciilifeform: that rule is certainly idiotic, "coin age" wtf
22:22 shinohai Use the sooper-dooper tx accelerator ! https://www.viabtc.com/tools/txaccelerator/
22:22 asciilifeform trinque: if blocks were crowded on account of actual people, the free tx thing would be a distant memory
↖
22:23 asciilifeform as would the empties.
22:24 trinque hm. no, I see your point. the "market" being mostly determined by malefactors burning govt funding.
22:25 trinque though while difficulty increases (and block size stays the same) I don't see how even these will not be forced into paying higher fees.
22:25 trinque shinohai: lol wtf is this
22:25 trinque I can beg my way into one of their "unlimited" blocks?
22:27 asciilifeform trinque: they are paying, mainly, into own pockets
22:28 shinohai Their diatribe under the "Service Statement" is lulzy
22:28 asciilifeform ( the cost, to the attacker pools, of tape-painting tx, is supposed to be 'they forgo fees from actual people', but there is very little pressure from actual-people. ergo this 'cost' is ~0, i suspect. )
22:31 asciilifeform the conclusion asciilifeform draws from the continued existence of emptyblox and oldcoinfreetxen is 'most tx are usg-authored spamola'. other folx - can draw other conclusions, if they want.
22:32 asciilifeform i still remember when blox moved from ~200kB to ~full-but-often-null in ~day. and stayed there.
22:33 asciilifeform but we're expected to believe that it was simply martians taking a sudden liking to bitcoin that one day, aha.
22:33 asciilifeform ( that day and since ! )
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