#trilema | 2015-03-01

fat carbon for clarity

00:00

l0l

00:00

yeah everybody asks about fat carbon

00:00

everyone i ever showed it to

00:01

a lol k

00:02

actually my explanation is off, the center is topologically unique. but the thing meets none of the ochem textbook graph-theoretical definitions for chirality

00:03

but is optically non-superimposable on its mirror image

00:03

and, incidentally, there are other chiralanes possible (you can generate them as computer model, that is. there is, afaik, no known synthesis for any of them)

00:04

anyone who still gives a damn - read the paper.

00:05

http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/chiral2.gif http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/schwart3.png << for those who can do 'crosseye'

00:05

... ( http://bit.ly/1Cbytkp )

00:05

... ( http://bit.ly/1Cbytku )

00:05

and o hey

00:05

http://chemistry.stackexchange.com/a/9771

00:05

organic chemistry - what is the simple enantiomer in the powder form that one can get? - Chemistry Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1CbyBAs )

00:05

al's still kicking.

00:06

What Al would like to test is pretty simple. Is gravity mirror-symmetric? If it is, then you can drop two stereoisomers in a vacuum, and they'll fall at the same rate. We don't know that this is the case, and the universe actually violates mirror-symmetry on many scales. Perhaps a violation will be observable.

00:06

But you have to test it.

00:06

(people can't do "crosseye"?)

00:07

gabriel_laddel: the interesting thing, and important to explain mircea_popescu's puzzlement, is that the enemy has been studiously arranging experiments to avoid actually testing the effect in question and declaring it 'settled'

00:07

or rather, the question of nonexistence as 'settled'

00:07

eh get out already.

00:07

seriously

00:07

"the enemy" coudl as well be in korea.

00:07

The Eot-wash group won't test this. And the string theorist in that stackoverflow question is more than happy to state that because a large construction of molecules falls at the speed we expect it to, it couldn't possibly happen on a small scale.

00:07

they proclaimed 'settled' after 'carefully testing' left- and right-handed machine screws in a torsion balance

00:07

which is obviously horse shit

00:08

and failing to find difference

00:08

lysenko lives

00:08

left and right handed machine screws != chirality !11!

00:08

but the grant funding people don't know this

00:09

but this is not germane to the issue.

00:09

we're not discussing why some other blokes aren't testing it, we're discussing why the proponent isn't.

00:09

the actual matter here is 'what's one physical effect vs hundred thousand respectable careers of respectable people (tm)'

00:09

and the proponent can't be doing or not doing "because of other people" (tm)

00:10

mircea_popescu: he thought (as of our last at-length exchange, ~3 yrs or so) that he still had a chance to make the torsion balance owners see the light

00:10

mircea_popescu: but this is not germane to the issue. << Oh, but it is. These people are prepared to lie at every turn. See the stack overflow post, or the output of the Eot-wash group. If Al or Stan were make a mistake in the run, they'd never be able to test it again.

00:11

check this out http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/

00:11

HOME | The Eöt-Wash Group ... ( http://bit.ly/1CbzEAt )

00:11

incidentally, he mentioned that other folks also offered to arrange, and he held off for same reason

00:11

"1) Search for experimental signs of quantum gravity that violate Einstein's Equivalence Principle and/or the Newtonian inverse-square law."

00:11

fuckwads

00:11

aha see they are only interested in finding effect predicted by the usg-sponsored paper machine

00:11

if it doesn't exist, they'd rather not turn up anything

00:12

and certainly not a 'crackpot'-predicted boojum

00:12

gabriel_laddel exactly why not lol ?

00:12

the legitimacy of the whole shebang is at stake

00:12

As far as I can tell, it comes down to the basic strategic necessity of killing your enemy when you indend to.

00:12

...

00:12

If you're not strong enough now, retreat, lick your wounds and then strike when the time is right.

00:12

i never heard of this bizarro shamanistic approach to research.

00:13

the shit's hard enough without waiting for complex voodoo to allign.

00:13

!s cognitive dissonance

00:13

13 results for 'cognitive dissonance' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cognitive+dissonance

00:13

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=27-11-2014#937006

00:13

Logged on 27-11-2014 15:36:04; mircea_popescu: no wonder everyone in the us needs a college degree. there's no way native intelligence could deal with a tenth of the cognitive dissonance dished out on a daily basis.

00:13

just measure the damned thing. if it doesn't come out, either refine the machinery or give up.

00:13

the US is fucking nuts right now. you live in a bubble of sanity

00:13

mircea_popescu: let's gedankenexperiment. say we build the thing and it runs as predicted (see the last chemistry.stackexchange link for what we'd be doing, roughly)

00:13

if it does come out, put it on your blog and move on.

00:13

then what

00:13

who the fuck cares what anyone else does ?

00:14

asciilifeform that's it.

00:14

al doesn't, as i understand, agree. he wants it to keep walking from there

00:14

which takes a few $b in imperial money

00:14

you will notice that the scam foundation is being fucking buried. in spite of... welll... consensus.

00:14

this shit only works if you buy into it.

00:15

all this nonsense of little girl stuck on the trans side of maturity river, discussing whether she wants to cross or not, what if the cis side won't be all that it's cracked up to be etc. wtf.

00:15

maturity is not optional.

00:15

asciilifeform: walk where? wants grant money for himself as a result of the discovery?

00:16

have the thing pursued

00:16

well it's certainly closer to being pursued after being measured than before eh.

00:16

see if effect can be had somewhere -left- of the eigth decimal

00:16

for actual practical uses

00:16

(we discussed some)

00:17

imagine! "i won't accidentally discover clorophorm unless it can be used as an anesthetic!"

00:17

this meta cancer upon the modern brain. people spend so much time considering "the implications" of shit that never happened they have no energy left to do stuff.

00:17

what if chlorophorm cost what the 'difference engine' cost.

00:18

i suppose it's time to do a kickstarter.

00:18

l0l

00:21

*

mircea_popescu links http://trilema.com/2015/causes-and-purposes/ here, and then proceeds to quote from http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-deal-with-pseudoscience/

00:21

Causes and purposes pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CbBiC4 )

00:21

How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CbBkdf )

00:21

mircea_popescu: for some reason i thought you had a handle on the 'provenance' thing - that is, that al doesn't win unless his opponents actually lose by their own rules and surrender by their own free hand

00:21

"This flat, unyielding ignorance-as-the-forerunner-of-oblivion is both perfectly safev and exactly the adequate pill for the poison in dicussion, because it expends very little productive effort on the part of the productive members of society, while at the same time forcing upon the unproductive the exact Gordian knot they've been trying to talk their way around (and plenty, no doubt, hoped they had succeeded). That k

00:21

not is of course practice, which is to say : if I were to declare I am ignoring "all that Einstein jazz", all physics penned after 1900 or so, and then built a cathodic tube television that worked just fine without accounting for quantum effects, the trashing and bashing of Einstein fans would be all in vain : I'll just shrug my shoulders, keep building and selling my television sets and care not on whit of whatever th

00:21

ey may write."

00:21

that is, if one day we simply exterminate them, he still hasn't really won, just sat down in lysenko's throne

00:21

asciilifeform nothing keeps him from forking chemistry tho.

00:22

!s lab nigger

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2 results for 'lab nigger' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lab+nigger

00:22

al actually spent years battling idiots who 'forked physics' and 'forked chemistry' on usenet, in much the same style as mpoe-pr battled btc sc4mz0rz

00:22

it isn't really a concept he finds digestible

00:22

asciilifeform there is a fundamental difference between lysenko (nutter whose shit DIDNT WORK) and this (if it works)

00:22

Not as easy as it sounds. Life is finite, as exemplified by MP not reading Al's experiment spec, and Al not being MP

00:23

asciilifeform look, irrespective of all that : he can just do the thing.

00:23

except if the difference only becomes palpable a few $b and decades later, it does't really exist to the naked eye

00:23

so /

00:23

it is still a material step that way.

00:23

mircea_popescu: the conclusive test requires the torsion rotor

00:24

asciilifeform: would you mind explaining the exact logistics of the equipment you'd need to put together to run the experiment?

00:24

gabriel_laddel: there were two proposed experiments.

00:24

so as to demonstrate exactly why it isn't as easy as "just measure the thing"

00:24

the one i very nearly ended up participating in, is described (roughly) in earlier link

00:25

http://chemistry.stackexchange.com/a/9771

00:25

organic chemistry - what is the simple enantiomer in the powder form that one can get? - Chemistry Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/17Hc1SN )

00:25

or actually

00:25

only the feedstock is described therein

00:26

mircea_popescu: http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz4.htm#a5

00:26

PURSUING THE LIMITS OF FAILED SYMMETRY ... ( http://bit.ly/17Hc4OA )

00:26

see vi. parity calorimetry experiment

00:27

section 'VIII. Parity Molecular Rotors' was my demented suggestion

00:27

(suitably poured into the mold of the physically practical by al's expert hands)

00:28

notice specific predicted divergence in microwave spectrogram.

00:28

gabriel_laddel the problem isn't exactly of the equipment. the problem is that if you make new equipment, you don't know if you're measuring the new equipment vs the old equipment or an actual effect.

00:29

remember http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-09-2014#846621 ?

00:29

Logged on 27-09-2014 02:36:41; asciilifeform: 'If you're a defendant, you don't get to claim your fingerprints miraculously appeared at a crime scene... If you're a bookkeeper, you don't get to say money miraculously disappeared from your company...'

00:29

mircea_popescu: I don't know the cost associated with calibrating these instruments and can't speak to the truth of that

00:29

essentially, according to 'neutral' folks in physics, al simply doesn't -get to- make the instrument

00:29

well you asked as to the logisticsa.

00:29

it doesn't count if it's his

00:30

or, at this point, mine

00:30

or mircea_popescu's

00:30

in order for it to 'count' - yes, we have to 'fork physics'

00:30

mircea_popescu: well, I was asking Stan specifically becuase he could supply detailed information as to costs and political constraints

00:30

which you have hand-waved away

00:30

gabriel_laddel: i can only speak re: the costs of the component which i was to wangle time on

00:31

asciilifeform: well, as the resident expert, would you mind expounding on these costs?

00:31

asciilifeform here's a thought : if al spent the past five years measuring things rather than skulking, he'd be in a much better position todasy than five years ago.

00:31

just so we have a sense?

00:31

ya kno ?

00:31

incidentally, iirc i also suggested use of microbolometer (aka infrared camera chip die) as a cheapo version of microcalorimeter

00:31

mircea_popescu: he operates under constraints quite similar to mine

00:31

that is, works in jungle conditions

00:32

yeah, wellllll....

00:32

i even marvel that he managed to grow the benzil crystal without going to jail

00:32

why would he go to jail ?

00:32

i grew permanganate crystals, at least that's a meth precurso.

00:32

unlicensed possession of glassware, caustics, 'drug precursors', ...

00:33

intent to manufacture...

00:33

asciilifeform: it seems the polarization version of the experiment would be much easier to set up

00:33

!up kyuupichan

00:33

eh get out.

00:33

Hello, bitbet is stuck on the blockchain.

00:33

kakobrekla ?

00:34

!

00:34

Once it catches up please review submitted bets.

00:34

thx

00:34

if thjey got rejected you'll prolly have to resubmit.

00:35

Got rejected as no zeroconf but they were, so either reconsider or refund, but at the moment as you think zero was sent you won't be refunding anything right?

00:35

it'll refund once it catches up im sure.

00:37

Perhaps site needs an alarm where e.g. it's compared vs blockchain.info or blockr.io?

00:38

this might be an idea.

00:42

'A money-losing economy, like a money-losing restaurant, sucks. It sucks in all kinds of ways that have no apparent connection to finance. The entire dining experience is grim. This, indeed, is the experience of the entire "old economy" outside the little bubbles of Silicon Valley and Wall Street. My in-laws live in Columbus. Columbus sucks. Even with Chairman Ben's 85-billion-a-month bond-buying "recovery." It is more

00:42

and more palpably a Soviet restaurant.'

00:42

^ from mr mold's old post, dropped here for the record

00:43

why?

00:43

his problem, like al's, is quite arguably: that he hasn't fully accepted death yet.

00:43

and so tries to carve some corner for himself in the shadow of the seemingly-invincible thousand-year reich

00:43

Ah. I'd like to point out that Al, unlike Mr. M has done useful work in the interim.

00:44

what al does in his cellar, only the devil knows

00:44

From what I could tell, from reading his usenet posts, he continues to work at Occidental research corp.

00:44

i'll point out that publishing -everything- one does is generally a habit of mediocrities desperate for attention

00:44

the soviet restaurant thing is quite palpable here in argentina.

00:44

the places where usians go ? shit service, shit food.

00:45

the rest of the city ? great service, great food.

00:45

*

asciilifeform doesn't publicize so much as a fraction of a percent of what he spends time on

00:45

it's almost as if they deliberately constructed a home away from home, these people.

00:45

(same probably for everyone here)

00:45

i can't tell you how many times i've stormed out of a shithole, inexplicable in context.

00:45

mthreat saw a few instances.

00:46

mircea_popescu: the observation that usa tends to 'follow' the expats wherever they happen to congregate en masse, is an old one

00:46

there's even a chain of HORRIBLE icecream. in this town, that has the best icecream i have ever tasted, by a long shot, and abundantly supplied by numerous artisanal gelaterias

00:46

fred 'fred on everything' reed mentioned it in his books

00:46

the usians have a fucktarded chain selling the worst goop.

00:47

my brain melted the first time i learned that many folks in usa can't really make themselves eat actual food

00:47

and only feel the least bit comfortable eating the recycled kind

00:48

asciilifeform see, now tell me this : how does teh ussa follow teh expat masse ? shadow fuhrer directs it ?

00:48

I had a similar experience when I went to italy on holiday

00:48

or is it just, like the gestapo, simply the only shared figment of their infertile imaginations ?

00:49

there's a great ru line from, i think, 'dog's heart'

00:49

something like 'decay isn't this old witch who walks around, it's you and i having bad aim and missing the pisser'

00:49

in the major italian tourist cities, the 'inner ring' around the tourist sites are full of restraunts that are obvious chumpatrons targeting usians and germans

00:49

there's fruit, and it's grandiose. then there's "fruit", imported by supermarkets for the usian market. you can get quite startling contrasts by buying in both.

00:50

mircea_popescu: 'Что такое эта ваша разруха? Старуха с клюкой? Ведьма, которая выбила все стекла, потушила все лампы? Да ее вовсе и не существует. Что вы подразумеваете под этим словом? […] Это вот что: если я, вместо того, чтобы оперировать каждый

00:50

вечер, начну у себя в квартире петь хором, у меня настанет разруха. Если я, входя в уборную, начну, извините за выражение, мочиться мимо унитаза и то же самое будут делать Зина и Дарья Петровна, в уборной начнется разруха. Следовательно, р

00:50

азруха не в клозетах, а в головах. Значит, когда эти баритоны кричат «бей разруху!» — Я смеюсь. […] Клянусь вам, мне смешно! Это означает, что каждый из них должен лупить себя по затылку! И вот, когда он вылупит из себя всякие галлюцинации и

00:50

займется чисткой сараев — прямым своим делом, — разруха исчезнет сама собой. Двум богам служить нельзя! Невозможно в одно время подметать трамвайные пути и устраивать судьбы каких-то испанских оборванцев! Это никому не удается, докто

00:50

o.O

00:50

р, и тем более — людям, которые, вообще отстав в развитии от европейцев лет на 200, до сих пор еще не совсем уверенно застегивают свои собственные штаны!'

00:50

you'll get docked for spam!

00:50

mircea_popescu: I assume you saw this article http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/feb/21/a-feast-of-engineering-whats-really-in-your-food

00:50

Inside the food industry: the surprising truth about what you eat | Life and style | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/17HedcY )

00:51

i suppose i gotta translate it now

00:51

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50099 @ 0.00039606 = 19.8422 BTC [+] {3}

00:51

"The strapline for a product called Butter Buds®, described by its makers as “an enzyme-modified encapsulated butter flavour that has as much as 400 times the flavour intensity of butter”, sums it up in six words: “When technology meets nature, you save.”"

00:51

problem is, 'разруха' doesn't translate.

00:51

decimation i think it was here. i didn't care to check it out.

00:51

it's as depressing as you would think

00:51

approx. 'ruin' but also shades of 'decay', 'decline', general civilizational degringolade

00:52

"Over the past few years, the food industry has embarked on an operation it dubs “clean label”, with the goal of removing the most glaring industrial ingredients and additives, replacing them with substitutes that sound altogether more benign." "If you noticed that it contained an amino acid such as L-cysteine E910, your enthusiasm might wane, especially if you happen to know that this additive can be derived from animal and human

00:52

hair. But a range of new-wave yeast extracts is increasingly replacing E910. "

00:52

decimation there's a reason i don't live in "civilised" shitholes. i can taste their "feasts of engineering".

00:53

anyway, everything in that world devolves to spam, it's one and only true mother.

00:53

new! "contains" "natural" "ingredients"!! it's profitable for us and "ok" for you

00:53

"labels limit the shitification of food ? SPAM THEM!"

00:53

money prevents us from being stupid ? SPAM IT!

00:54

pretty much the only thing the west ever does is, "try and spam it!"

00:54

somehow the world should be impressed with this "progress", much in the manner parents should be impressed with "look, no hands!"

00:54

it smacks of 'all voice, no exit'

00:55

not to mention the "all metaconsiderations, no agency"

00:55

prolly the same exact fundamental.

00:55

mircea_popescu: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=tLsXBtS9 << passable 'pro' translation

00:55

... ( http://bit.ly/17HeAUV )

00:55

not mine

00:56

yeah in fact the reason the us succeeded as it were for the first hundred years was because there was much empty virgin territory, so people could 'express agency'

00:56

the story of individual america is basically one line : "there's no difference between the rich man and the poor man who hasn't yet decided what to buy".

00:56

as if. but somehow, a billion idiots picked this bit of shoeshiner's philosophy as their foundational line.

00:58

lettuce all sit forever and ponder the implications of asking the girl out, of measuring the fucking crystals, of spitting on the ant.

00:59

draw up the entire putative history eight nine steps removed in all directions, till the night comes and we go home.

01:00

*

asciilifeform still thinks the crystal thing made perfect sense in light of protagonist not being ready to 'fork physics'

01:01

better men later on.

01:01

but it's inescapable. everything's getting forked. gpg, linux, the world.

01:02

we, in spite of the sweat required, are the lucky fellas.

01:02

because don't need, at least for most of that list, $maxint

01:03

but what if your work is meaningless without $b synchrophasotron ?

01:03

build out of scrap iron in cellar ?

01:04

it is also not entirely clear to me where the 'better men' are to get the $b

01:04

and why they might like to throw it into a strongly -ev pit

01:05

fact is, 'basic science' is -ev when viewed through the lens of a typical human lifespan

01:05

"measuring the fucking crystals" << "MPEX is just a bitcoin security exchange, just like any other bitoin security exchange"

01:06

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 151550 @ 0.00041401 = 62.7432 BTC [+] {2}

01:08

asciilifeform: "-ev" < it's admittedly the case that 'basic science' seems to be advanced mostly through 'dumb luck'

01:09

in the sense that some crank comes up with an idea that happens to be right, rather than the result of some carefully arranged program of research

01:10

nein nein nein nein!

01:10

any who are inclined, as mircea_popescu seems to be, to think that 'any idea can be tested and developed in your cellar' should study the history of semiconductor

01:10

;; google John Von Numann

01:10

John von Neumann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann>; John von Neumann | Institute for Advanced Study: <https://www.ias.edu/people/vonneumann>; History of Computing Science: John von Neumann: <http://www.eingang.org/Lecture/neumann.html>

01:10

which was known for a rather long time prior to becoming an industrial product

01:10

;; google manhattan project

01:10

Manhattan Project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project>; The Manhattan Project [ushistory.org]: <http://www.ushistory.org/us/51f.asp>; Manhattan Project | United States history | Encyclopedia Britannica: <http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/362098/Manhattan-Project>

01:10

;; google symbolics inc

01:10

Symbolics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolics>; Symbolics.com : The first and oldest registered domain name on the ...: <http://symbolics.com/>; Symbolics, Inc.: <http://www.symbolics-dks.com/>

01:11

;; google Leonardo Da Vinci

01:11

Leonardo da Vinci - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_da_Vinci>; Leonardo da Vinci - Biography - Writer, Mathematician, Inventor ...: <http://www.biography.com/people/leonardo-da-vinci-40396>; Leonardo Da Vinci - The complete works: <http://www.leonardoda-vinci.org/>

01:11

It took 3 generations of masters to produce Leonardo

01:11

and countless derps before that

01:11

gabriel_laddel: who was the 'herri seldon' who foresaw the development of leonardo?

01:12

er, 'hari seldon'

01:12

decimation: afaik, no one predicted leonardo, but there were three generations of masters preceding him. He learned from their works

01:13

my point is that science does not advance "at random"

01:13

nor because of "cranks"

01:14

but the earlier masters couldn't have predicted the results of their erudition

01:14

of course not

01:14

but that doesn't make it random

01:14

can you predict exactly what a WoT enabled world will look like?

01:15

we know sorta-kinda how it is going to function, but I expect to be pleasantly surprised

01:15

I'm not using the word 'random' to mean 'acausal'

01:15

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2014#548254 << obligatory thread re: cranks

01:15

Logged on 05-03-2014 23:06:12; asciilifeform: the 'time microscope' thing is typical of aging inventors who, by virtue of being cut off from competent peers (either by having none alive, or being on the wrong side of a jail of one kind or another)

01:15

'crank' in this context is really anyone who 'forks science' and ends up an army-of-one

01:16

happily chugging along on his lonesome blockchain

01:16

(or not so happily, as the case may be)

01:16

sometimes this happens in unconnected pairs

01:25

*

ben_vulpes checks to see if a > 1mb block is floating around

01:26

and sometimes it happens through e.g., MIT, Stanford, library of Alexandria, Manhattan Project

01:26

"it's admittedly the case that 'basic science' seems to be advanced mostly through 'dumb luck'"

01:26

^ I don't see that this is true.

01:26

what 'basic science' did the manhattan project advance?

01:27

the effective use of computing machines iirc

01:27

(is this 'basic science'? What is basic science?)

01:28

(conceptually basic, atoms and the like, or basic in the sense of a starting point that is eventually abandoned, e.g., alchemy)

01:28

is that science?

01:29

basic in the sense of maximally distant from applications.

01:29

e.g., boolean algebra in the lifetime of g. boole.

01:29

in the same sense as the base of a tower is the point maximally far from its tip.

01:30

and on which the rest of the tower - stands.

01:30

http://rin.io/

01:30

math is art | "Discovery is the privilege of the child: the child who has no fear of being once again wrong, of looking like an idiot, of not being serious, of not doing things like everyone else." — Grothendieck ... ( http://bit.ly/1DF4iA9 )

01:30

^ here is a blog I've not gotten around to reading yet

01:30

this girl was given 100k by Pete Thiel to think.

01:30

she is doing category theory and physics research.

01:31

Does this qualify? will she produce anything of interest? I don't yet know.

01:31

Christopher Olah, Thiel fellow. Does research on conv. neural networks.

01:31

is this basic science?

01:31

he also funded mr mold's crap.

01:32

and?

01:32

'you go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had', thiel could reply, quoting mr bush

01:33

it seems to me that basic science is something that is only obvious in distant hindsight

01:33

my point is that this is an organized effort

01:33

and organized effords have existed in the past

01:33

they will exist in the future, assuming we don't end up glassing the whole planet

01:34

'you go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had', thiel could reply, quoting mr bush << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=28-02-2015#1035968

01:34

Logged on 28-02-2015 04:19:51; mircea_popescu: if you ask the slut, often enough it's because "he's the only one that asked, and i was getting bored"

01:34

in that sense, the ubiquitous state lottery is also 'organized effort'

01:34

thus far i know of no particular reason why thiel picked the folks he did

01:35

(he is attempting to fund basic science)

01:35

except for a vague 'flavour' of 'up&coming young'

01:35

and he is, in that sense, continuing the tradition of the equally boring 'mcarthur prize'

01:36

I'm not saying that I beneficiary agree with Thiel's funding decisions, but I am pointing out that there are people attempting to fund basic science, and that there are two specific people I've cited who can be vetted for their contributions.

01:36

(can you name, off the top of your head, a single person who was given the prize - which is intended to set promising young thinkers free from workslavery) who amounted to anything ?

01:36

Christopher Olah

01:36

no idea who that was

01:36

asciilifeform: but what if your work is meaningless without $b synchrophasotron ? <<< i thought it was 50k.

01:37

50k for the might-work calorimetric variant

01:37

so did the swiss patent office 'organize' to advance physics by paying einstein in exchange for clerk-serfdom?

01:37

http://colah.github.io/archive.html

01:37

Archives - colah's blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1BNXZNa )

01:37

decimation: no because serfdom

01:37

asciilifeform understand, i'm not proposing anyone's obliged to follow any particular flight of fancy.

01:37

but the proposition that one shouldn't or understandably wouldn't for it may turn out to be just fancy... that's nonsense.

01:37

gabriel_laddel: and to what does that thing amount ?

01:38

this is the very stuff of life, following our flights of fancy.

01:38

gabriel_laddel: what would we lose if it never happened

01:38

mircea_popescu: i did try to convince the fella.

01:38

asciilifeform: well, in Chris's case, some research on neural networks

01:38

asciilifeform i recall.

01:38

In Rin's case, idk yet

01:39

gabriel_laddel: i confess that thiel's experiment would be considerably more interesting if it were 100m not 100k

01:39

incidentally... olah is kinda how hungarians say romanian.

01:39

corruption of valah

01:40

100k buys half a garage where i live

01:40

A summary of my points. 1) there are some people attempting to fund basic science 2) I don't agree with all of their funding decisions 3) this isn't the first instance of this occuring in history

01:40

and two garages in alaska

01:40

but then he'd actually need a proper heuristic for choosing his 'soldiers'

01:40

but thiel wants web2.0 not a new nuke.

01:41

and he hasn't a prayer, and knows it

01:41

4) perhaps the fault lies with those attempting to peruse basic science, for not giving him a heuristic

01:41

specifically for that reason, yes.

01:41

gabriel_laddel: find someone whose heuristic isn't 'give it to -me-'

01:41

and then talk to thiel

01:42

lol

01:42

i'd guess that many folks can't even think about this subject without their brain melting from rage

01:42

'why should -this- piece of shit get 100k to enjoy life, while i sit on this stake...'

01:42

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037139 << of course. meanwhile the last attempt by some other kids to pretend this is the case just imploded ?

01:42

Logged on 01-03-2015 06:05:50; gabriel_laddel: "measuring the fucking crystals" << "MPEX is just a bitcoin security exchange, just like any other bitoin security exchange"

01:42

asciilifeform i suspect the idea wasn't that, but to educate thiel so he's less of a schmuck.

01:43

^ yup

01:43

people with money they don't know what to do with are the very definition of schmuckdom

01:43

i'm not certain that it is possible to give him a heuristic good enough that he can ditch 'r-strategy' and go with 'k-strategy', to use the zoologist's terms

01:43

if you watch thiels videos in particular you can see that he wants to fund interesting things but doesn't know how

01:43

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037142 << this is necessarily true, it directly flows from the definitions of the words you use.

01:43

Logged on 01-03-2015 06:09:13; decimation: in the sense that some crank comes up with an idea that happens to be right, rather than the result of some carefully arranged program of research

01:44

gabriel_laddel or what they are. or how to look for them. essentially he's a girl that'd like to fuck but never heard of clothes, or make-up or going out.

01:44

lol I know

01:44

thiel the nubile savage.

01:44

gabriel_laddel: he's stuck relying on 'legitimate' communities of 'domain experts' and is doomed to never see anything of genuine interest, which is 100% on crank islands

01:45

asciilifeform dude gtfo, nobody said management is required to be illiterate.

01:45

Eh, I read his startup notes, he has a brain.

01:45

and uses it

01:45

but not an education.

01:45

it remains to be seen if he'll grok bitcoin. if he does, he'll probably end up funding interesting things.

01:45

*

mircea_popescu quotes newman :

01:46

"the education which gives a man a clear conscious view of his own opinions and judgments, a truth in developing them, an eloquence in expressing them, and a force in urging them. It teaches him to see things as they are, to go right to the point, to disentangle a skein of thought, to detect what is sophistical, and to discard what is irrelevant."

01:46

gabriel_laddel: think of how you, yourself, came upon al schwartz's thing

01:46

yes?

01:46

gabriel_laddel: was it by speaking with 'legit' physicists ?

01:46

No.

01:46

*

mircea_popescu gleefully notices how alf is now using the "you yourself" device.

01:46

or with anyone to whom they might give the time of day?

01:46

Nope.

01:46

it was by hanging with sewer rats

01:46

lemme find the video

01:46

one sec

01:47

brown, grizzled, with monstrous teeth, no ?

01:47

in this line : "oh mp must be insane to spend all his time on irc, if i was rich i'd do [???]".

01:47

would thiel read, e.g., my site ?

01:47

for all the platinum-iridium toilet in the world ?

01:47

he might

01:47

nope. and you can take that to the bank

01:47

and you know this how?

01:47

asciilifeform what's the matter with it, you writing with different letters or something ?

01:48

gabriel_laddel, mircea_popescu: simply pointing out that most fiat 'barons' are more like herr buffett than mircea_popescu

01:48

but not for any structural reason, is the important point.

01:48

for the structural reason of preferring their familiar private kitchens to a sewer hatchway

01:49

that leads to hell knows where

01:49

whether most women in x population are more like californians or saudis has nothing to do wit ha cunt being a cunt.

01:49

and smells funny

01:49

<asciilifeform> i'd guess that many folks can't even think about this subject without their brain melting from rage << a good eighth of my time is spent talking smart young guys down out of a shartup-inspired rage attack

01:49

Youtube doesn't have grep, and I'm not going to troll through all these videos to find the one I'm thinking of. In any case, in one of them he states that "scientists have been replaced with baccarats" and that "MOOCs are not going anywhere"

01:49

01:49

Peter Thiel Was Right - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1BNYvux )

01:49

ben_vulpes it's pretty "disruptive" alright, huh. "what are we disrupting ?" "the moral fiber of society"

01:50

gabriel_laddel actually moocs are the superlative american college.

01:50

baccarats -> bureaucrats

01:50

*

ben_vulpes goes to buy a bottle of wine to fuel the ruby rage

01:50

*

asciilifeform was actually trying to picture casino game

01:51

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037154 << i have my doubts about this "productive" perspective.

01:51

Logged on 01-03-2015 06:11:21; gabriel_laddel: It took 3 generations of masters to produce Leonardo

01:51

asciilifeform: i appreciated your point about hating programming recently

01:51

asciilifeform gabriel_laddel i just parsed it as "a weird way to say mountebanks"

01:51

ben_vulpes: i'm not even fully certain if i hate only programming specifically or work in general

01:51

06:54 << becuase american college sucks

01:52

well... because it's "universal". once no kid's left behind, the boat's not sailing anywhere.

01:52

the very fucking point of academia is to sail away.

01:52

Yep. Which is my point. Thiel has detected this.

01:52

gabriel_laddel: thiel's spewing trendisms to work your hindbrain

01:52

Is he here in #b-a? No.

01:52

work requires only energy.

01:53

programming requires obscene mental contortions.

01:53

oh and dealing with the output of people who "like it".

01:53

asciilifeform: if he was spewing trendisms he'd be /supporting/ the MOOCs

01:53

ben_vulpes: i was speaking of work in the economic sense rather than physical

01:53

gabriel_laddel there are two threads here. one is "thiel is dumb". this is not being entertained. the other is, "thiel's uneducated". this is my position.

01:53

gabriel_laddel: he's selective re: which trendisms to employ

01:53

so as to work your hindbrain.

01:54

mircea_popescu: i'll add a third

01:54

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037147 << if memory serves industrial productness was no part of the discussion.

01:54

Logged on 01-03-2015 06:10:30; asciilifeform: which was known for a rather long time prior to becoming an industrial product

01:54

which is that herr thiel is operating on an understanding with the folks who allow him to exist

01:54

we're at the "known for a long time" hurdle yet.

01:54

that precludes certain things, and requires others

01:54

that's a null hypothesis.

01:54

for instance i said null hypothesis as part of a deal with my brain to allow me to continue to exist.

01:55

lol!

01:55

let's make it concrete

01:55

(by nh i mean, a statement which has no content)

01:55

what do you suppose would happen if herr thiel decided to pump every penny he had into buying btc ?

01:55

how far would he get before 'having problems'

01:56

indefinitely far.

01:56

would the folks who can zero his bank balance by pressing a button, let btc climb to 100k usd ?

01:56

in your craziest models you don't have a hitler lizard tribe capable to handle such sudden bends of activity.

01:56

or use a ten cent bullet

01:56

WE DONT KNOW

01:57

what you describe is a what, 3 sigma event ? there's not a plan in place for two sigma events even. banal shit like "they used plane as rocket"

01:57

this is more along the lines of the mircea_popescu article where 'buffett is not actually rich because his dollars can't be sent to isis'

01:57

^ which is entirely true, imho

01:58

so far my bitcoins are getting sent to the btc bears lol.

01:59

anyway, whatever would happen would come as a surprise to everyone, including in no particular order : a) the people running btc-usd exchanges ; b) you ; c) the friendly usg log reader delegate ; d) isabelle boring or w/e her name is ; etc

02:00

what WAS that chick's name ?

02:00

unless i catastrophically misunderstand, ^ the bears inevitably get the coin unless a fully bitcoinized supply chain materializes for mircea_popescu and others to use

02:00

;;google boring miss florida congressional aide made a derpy "bitcoin chamber of commerce"

02:00

No matches found.

02:00

sigh.

02:00

asciilifeform no, i meant the berkshire bet.

02:00

ah

02:01

*

asciilifeform confesses that he wondered if the purpose of that bet was not necessarily to win, but to soften a target

02:01

that is, to exhaust the resources of folks tasked with arranging mircea_popescu losing it

02:02

https://bitcoinpresscenter.org/presslist-filtered/spoken-arabic << this shit's so lulzy.

02:02

Bitcoin Press Center | A global media center for bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1zP24tZ )

02:02

and wtf is "rooteleven.com" anyway

02:02

;;calc sqrt(11)

02:02

3.31662479036

02:02

^ it

02:03

10:37 - who is that with Thiel, could it be the evil racist Charles Murray?

02:03

debating on the /same side/?!?!?!

02:04

That's not respectable at all!

02:04

anyway, back to the intelligence vs education thing. i wish i had words to express my meaning in intelligible english. let's try by saying that a good mark of one's education is what sort of thing he fills his space with.

02:04

*

asciilifeform won't give a damn if thiel appears with watson and putin also

02:04

"but honey, you can't marry this guy. his parents have no library in the house!"

02:05

asciilifeform: this is, as far as I can tell, roughly the equivalent of reading your blog.

02:06

gabriel_laddel: lol nope.

02:06

?

02:06

gabriel_laddel: you don't need to open a sewer hatchway to get to herr murray

02:06

or watson, or putin

02:06

Charles Murray, 1st Earl of Dunmore ?!

02:06

what murray is this ?

02:06

they're mainstream 'guiding lights', albeit - in the degenerate anglo world, with a 'minus' sign

02:07

mircea_popescu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Murray_(political_scientist)

02:07

Charles Murray (political scientist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1BNZ33v )

02:07

nah the other one

02:07

aha him

02:07

"Charles Alan Murray (born 1943) is an American paleoconservative and paleolibertarian leaning political scientist, author, columnist, and pundit."

02:07

what's "paleo" mean in wikipedia ?

02:07

he doesn't eat bread with conservatives ?

02:08

asciilifeform: so wait, would visiting e.g., Schwartz qualify for "stepping into the sewer"

02:08

it would

02:08

gabriel_laddel: try to see the pattern here

02:08

mircea_popescu: roughly, 'conservative' in america today means 'republican', which also means 'pro-state'

02:08

asciilifeform: I gotcha

02:09

finally.

02:09

so paleo is anti-state ?

02:09

not exactly, but he wouldn't be invited to any parties at cpac

02:09

do words have any meanings whatsoever anymore ?

02:09

THIS is a fine example of what i fucking mean by educated.

02:09

murray put his hands firmly on the 'third rail' in usa

02:09

it doesn't matter how intelligent us kids are.

02:09

in that cesspool they can't be anything but louts.

02:10

mircea_popescu: modern us politics is a sandpile built upon equivocation

02:10

mircea_popescu: you need a full body containment suit just to survive as a thinking man here.

02:10

as opposed to what, finance ?

02:10

mircea_popescu: preferably with closed filtration cycle

02:10

or to wha texactly. erotica ?

02:11

what part of english as a single language ISNT perpetual and universally equivocal synonymy

02:11

Murray's Law:

02:11

1. The Law of Imperfect Selection: Any objective rule that defines eligibility for a social transfer program will irrationally exclude some persons.

02:11

2. The Law of Unintended Rewards: Any social transfer increases the net value of being in the condition that prompted the transfer.

02:11

3. The Law of Net Harm: The less likely it is that the unwanted behavior will change voluntarily, the more likely it is that a program to induce change will cause net harm.

02:11

ok, that much makes sense.

02:11

no idea why this'd be "murray's law", but at least i see something.

02:12

!s cognitive dissonance

02:12

16 results for 'cognitive dissonance' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=cognitive+dissonance

02:12

the US is fucking insane

02:13

1. Any rule applied uniformly over a group with a view to some purpose will result in measurable contradiction of the purpose before it results in measurable achievement of the purpose.

02:13

people try codifying common sense to make it more palatable - doesn't work

02:13

generally, my understanding is that 'paleoconservatives' want to wind us society back to something resembling the 'cis-democracy' in that moldbug peice

02:13

2 is good as is.

02:13

3. too.

02:13

cool.

02:14

for the record, the earl dunmore was pretty cool too.

02:14

one of murray's books advanced the idea that the ruling us elite were cutting asunder all social mores and strictures that bound the masses

02:15

i dun think this is controversial.

02:15

one of the mega-lulz re: 'paleoconservatives' is that most of these folks (that i've had the fortune of reading) struggle with a mental bug - they yearn to roll back to some known-good state where various old-school religions were still strong, but don't personally subscribe to them

02:15

while they silently keep those mores alive amoung themselves

02:15

and openly profess to wish for a pill that would 'turn them catholic' or whatnot

02:16

mr mold once confessed that he might like an 'islamization pill'

02:16

george will sort of fits that description

02:17

i, (in my mental card catalogue, naturally) call this 'the green pill'

02:17

asciilifeform basically they yearn to be women.

02:17

adjunct to blue & red already in the pharmacy we know

02:17

(green for the colour of the prophet's banner, naturally!)

02:17

mircea_popescu has it

02:17

oh, murray also co-authored 'the bell curve'

02:17

which controversially asserted that jews were smarter than blacks

02:18

how did the ets do ?

02:18

based, iirc, on longitudinal (that is, lifetime progress) study of children, esp. adopted cross-ethnically at birth

02:18

the conclusions of which, interestingly, none of the establishment types bothered to attack directly

02:18

because it was bulletproof

02:18

*

gabriel_laddel *gasp*

02:18

instead they had to declare murry a public enemy and 'hitler'

02:18

no, but they strongly 'taught the controversy'

02:18

aha

02:19

how many children ?

02:21

~13,000

02:21

iirc

02:21

almost respectable.

02:21

i was all prepared to hear 300 and say "rubbish"

02:21

it wasn't rubbish.

02:22

that's why the solid wall of bullshit built around the subject by usg

02:22

almost impenetrable by the idly curious

02:22

ftr, i dun actually credit the race/intelligence theory. not that i have strong feelings either way

02:22

visit a university library; 'bell curve' is a little brick, the 'refutations' - a book case and climbing

02:23

but the whole thing strikes me like an attempt to establish a link between female beauty and hair color.

02:23

one datapoint "“The NLSY, administered in 1980 to by far the largest sample (6,502 whites, 3,022 blacks) in a national study, found a difference of 1.21 standard deviations on the AFQT.”"

02:23

AFQT means 'armed forces qualifying test'

02:24

if iq tests worked we'd have usable software.

02:24

mircea_popescu: can work without being any more than 'dismal science'

02:24

that tells you just how fucked you are

02:24

if iq tests worked we'd have usable software. << see symbolics inc

02:24

wait wut !?

02:24

mircea_popescu: as i gather, intelligence is only slightly heritable, but stupidity - is very

02:24

lol.

02:25

intelligence, in a strict sense of whatever, bus speed ? bus width ? ram ? cpu cycles ? frequency of parity errors ?

02:25

as are a thousand mental dysfunctions most of which haven't even a name

02:25

!s myelin sheaths

02:25

2 results for 'myelin sheaths' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=myelin+sheaths

02:25

is really the small part of the discussion. thiel is smart, and it doesn't help him

02:25

^ i had a physical, testable hypothesis

02:25

yes.

02:25

check back in 10,000 years when the cockroaches replace us

02:25

they'll test.

02:26

well... "testable" . you gotta kill people.

02:26

i don't expect it tested in mouse or man in own lifetime

02:26

'too much fun'

02:26

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037159 << your point actually fails under its own weight. are fractals random ?

02:26

Logged on 01-03-2015 06:13:09; gabriel_laddel: my point is that science does not advance "at random"

02:27

no

02:27

it advances at random to a random degree, is the thing.

02:27

from the book: “In any case, you are not going to learn tomorrow that all the cognitive differences between races are 100 percent genetic in origin, because the scientific state of knowledge, unfinished as it is, already gives ample evidence that environment is part of the story. But the evidence eventually may become unequivocal that genes are also part of the story. We are worried that the elite wisdom on this issue, for years

02:27

almost hysterically in denial about that possibility, will snap too far in the other direction. It is possible to face all the facts on ethnic and race differences in intelligence and not run screaming from the room: That is the essential message.”

02:27

which actually means a very good quality random.

02:27

decimation does it at any place say what it deems intelligence to be, this book ?

02:28

mircea_popescu: no, but it does go into the subject of stupidity

02:28

not a very good book eh.

02:28

http://youtu.be/xzTH_ZqaFKI?t=9m57s << neat, working software, with the foundations built by high IQ individuals

02:28

LiveCoding in CommonLisp. - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1BNZVVP )

02:28

mircea_popescu: it's a perfectly good epidemiological work.

02:28

why does it define stupidity and make statements about intelligence ? should stick to stupidity.

02:29

gabriel_laddel: eww opengl blackbox

02:29

*

asciilifeform saw five seconds, saw enough

02:29

gabriel_laddel it occurs to me the templeos guy is kinda high iq

02:29

see also link to classic thread re: 'cranks' coming 'untethered'

02:29

for good or ill

02:29

^

02:30

terry davis doesn't have to answer to a grant committee

02:30

lmao wtf was this, monkey @ lisp term ?!

02:30

and ends up with certain things, some interesting, some not, with a heavy flavour of jizzus jizzm

02:30

i, in his place, would come up with something quite else

02:30

you - yet else

02:30

etc

02:31

i dun see what "in his place" would mean.

02:31

his 'thiel fellowship' came from usg.

02:31

starvation pension, but enough to keep his computer lit

02:31

!s langton's ant

02:31

9 results for 'langton's ant' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=langton%27s+ant

02:31

"what is intelligence?"

02:31

"like beauty, but for men"

02:32

haha yeah

02:32

srsly.

02:32

mircea_popescu: 'his place' - thinking man who found, by accident or otherwise, an escape hatch from arbeit macht frei

02:32

i dun follow ?

02:32

he doesn't have to work a day job

02:32

so then im in his place ?

02:32

aha

02:32

mircea_popescu: perianne.

02:32

and you aren't ?

02:32

nope

02:33

ben_vulpes bless you.

02:33

the book has a whole chapter on the subject of defining intelligence

02:33

asciilifeform because you HAVE to ?

02:33

decimation anything good ?

02:33

mircea_popescu: aha

02:33

or just teachin' the controversy

02:33

mircea_popescu: to keep the lights on

02:33

monkey @ lisp term ?! << outside of that, have you ever seen any program written as "fluidly"? Which comes back to the original discussion of "what is intelligence"

02:33

asciilifeform mayhap that needs work ?

02:33

but essentially ends up with the 'classical' theory, which is 'this statistical thing that tends to pop out reliably on these tests'

02:33

"why prefer incremental compilation over batch?"

02:33

gabriel_laddel i dunno, i dun tend to spy on people writing code that much, i'm prolly the most ignorant in the room on that score.

02:34

mircea_popescu: wai wat ?

02:34

because its prettier

02:34

asciilifeform the "have to". if you were writing software it'd be a magic variabler.

02:35

iirc i described the kinds of thing i do for living..

02:35

asciilifeform no, that's not it. if i were in prison, would i HAVE TO be in prison to keep the lights on ?

02:35

ie, would it be my job ?

02:35

in ru prison circa 1951 - aha, job. want to eat? dig

02:35

just then ?

02:36

(or, if very talented, beat another fella into digging your share)

02:36

just then << 'peak stalin'

02:36

my point being, your have to is weak. not to any personal effect, but it does ruin our theory.

02:36

after he croaked, that kind of thing was - at least on paper - somewhat curtailed

02:36

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037164 << the important point here is that causes not purposes.

02:36

Logged on 01-03-2015 06:14:45; gabriel_laddel: can you predict exactly what a WoT enabled world will look like?

02:37

for all i care the wot world can result in the sky combusing.

02:37

mircea_popescu: this is true in that, technically, i could cough up tomorrow's lottery number and play and then 'not have to' and no physical law prevents it

02:37

combusting*

02:37

but this is not an algorithmic soluton.

02:37

*solution

02:37

asciilifeform or learn to eat air. or w/e.

02:37

aha air

02:37

unbeatable taste

02:37

well... maybe templeos guy did ?

02:37

not according to his account

02:37

and he'd know.

02:37

he gets usg pension.

02:38

because the first thing fish mentions is the water.

02:38

i've no reason to doubt the fact of it

02:38

plenty of folks do - simply that most of them don't write oddball os

02:38

if facts were facts debates would be silent observances.

02:39

must confess, i don't know him in person

02:39

but his self-portrait isn't in any way stretching belief

02:39

did i ever tell you about the naked gypsy girl ?

02:39

gets small pension from usg, lives alone in tiny flat, eats little

02:39

hm?

02:40

took some ppls to see the enchanted gypsy palaces in turda (romania). which, you know, are pretty elaborate.

02:40

took a wroing turn, ended up on mud street from 1750. down towards us, completely naked 9yo girl, rope tied around her waist. literally rope.

02:41

everyone's aghast.

02:41

but barefoot girl in the mud aside : she probably had parents, who similarly had to work to keep the lights on.

02:41

in the shape of the sun, i guess.

02:42

someone had to shape the mud into huts

02:42

unless the gurl photosynthesizes - yes, they have to, or starve.

02:42

no these are literally palaces.

02:42

lemme dig something up here

02:43

what 'work' means in the gypsy palace, i haven't any notion

02:43

;;google palate tiganesti turda

02:43

Palatele tiganesti din Buzescu - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHTBPhQcXCY>; case de tigani - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UQZ64SoDtw>; palatul lui Juliano radu - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7C00pWpDI8>

02:43

but whatever it is they do to keep the trucks coming

02:43

see the pics / whatevs.

02:43

at any rate, the "iq" thing seems more useful when applied on the population level

02:43

derivatives trading?

02:43

asciilifeform a long array of things, all more or less coney.

02:43

it might not tell you who to hire next, but it would explain why nobody in the city you are visiting has heard of plumbing

02:44

or why 400 years of plumbing school at gunpoint had no effect

02:44

decimation has it.

02:44

decimation would it now ? seems more a function of where htey were born, if they heard of plumbing or not.

02:44

omfg

02:44

(by 'plumbing' here mean 'not shitting where you drink')

02:45

aye

02:45

i doubt this is inborn.

02:45

wow those really are palaces

02:45

yes. and you should see the insides, furs and shit. it's really very azn

02:46

complete with wall carpets?

02:46

always good for a culture shock for usians, because somehow they think starbucks is luxury.

02:46

is this what they do with all the coins they manage to scrape together?

02:46

meanwhile these dudes fuck on tiger fur.

02:46

decimation well, some of those were built out of begging, some out of scrap metal theft, some out of who knows what.

02:47

eh betcha it's been deluxurized by chinese tiger farms

02:47

but basic point stands

02:47

anyway, i was cheating a little ( http://trilema.com/2010/nuditatea-la-copii-si-sugari/ << original article where scene above is described). it just so happens that in that culture, kids are supposed to be naked pre puberty.

02:47

Nuditatea la copii si sugari pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1wC5Aqy )

02:48

described in, among other places, orlov's

02:48

'5 stages'

02:48

but point remains : what man HAS TO do is never clear.

02:48

(he takes a strange fixation with the gypsies)

02:48

my usian upbringing causes me to conjure some dude living in a hovel or a wagon upon hearing 'gypsy'

02:48

decimation in fairness, most do. these are the rare exceptions not the bulk. recall orwell's "jew makes a dollar a day" thing

02:49

i can picture that if mircea_popescu ever opens a jail, all of the cages will open from the inside with a 32-bit combination lock. nobody will 'have to' sit in this jail

02:49

can always open the lock, no ?

02:49

quite.

02:50

32 bit may be a little short.

02:50

;;calc 6**27

02:50

1023490369077469249536

02:50

this, incidentally, might be a fairly good 'business model'

02:50

6 letter lock.

02:50

"let me tell you a story about a mouse I caught in a field..."

02:50

in that the occasional escaped maniac is outweighed by the folks who will sit for decades flipping digits

02:50

incidentally : this would be a great prison. judge doesn't give you a term. judge gives you a frequency count.

02:51

aha

02:51

you can get out once you're industrious enough.

02:51

i came up with this based on the more well-known 'schrodinger jail'

02:51

1:1024*2 for theft.

02:51

plus the prisioners would be occupied with something, instead of scheming how to spray bodily fluids on whoever happens by the slot

02:51

where you get a probability spread as sentence

02:52

and get days off your term for playing 'russian roulette'

02:52

!up shesek

02:52

decimation: aha, that'd be the point

02:52

lmao fucken dyslexia

02:53

;;calc 27**6

02:53

387420489

02:53

i was thinking wtf that many ?!

02:53

*

asciilifeform was thinking 'which six letters'

02:53

and 'why 27 of'em'

02:53

another variant: all the prisoners play 'WoW' - upon gaining some princely sum of gold they can be freed

02:53

decimation: sop in china

02:53

this is how china does it already.

02:54

hehe yeah

02:54

"rate jail best on ijail 5bn times, walk free!"

02:54

except afaik they do 'get to eat' instead of 'walk free'

02:55

maybe someone should make a bitbet for the date of the appearance of an official usg 'game'

02:55

how'd you specify it.

02:55

'america's army'

02:55

or some other kind of game meant here ?

02:56

wasn't it "army of one" ?

02:56

http://www.americasarmy.com

02:56

America's Army ... ( http://bit.ly/1BO23wG )

02:56

skinned counterstrike or some such?

02:56

*

mircea_popescu half expects to find some bad retailer on the other end

02:56

the purpose of the game would be to 'sink' hours of the otherwise idle usg employees

02:57

ben_vulpes nah, zynga something.

02:57

iirc it was freeware

02:57

"america's army products community" yep right on.

02:57

3d 'shooter' where you had to 'pass bootcamp', dig pits, die in ten minutes of firefight dropping like potato, etc

02:58

'realism'

02:58

was commissioned as a recruiting gimmick

02:58

"About Rin Im Cathe(rin)e Ray." not bad.

02:59

http://store.steampowered.com/app/203290

02:59

America's Army: Proving Grounds Beta on Steam ... ( http://bit.ly/1wC7PtG )

03:00

gabriel_laddel i sent her an email. iron a shirt in case shows up.

03:01

http://www.thielfellowship.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/fellowship-banners_about-1280x460.jpg << is it me or it's mostly guys and mostly white ?

03:01

... ( http://bit.ly/1BO2uY7 )

03:01

Not just you.

03:01

Also, lots of asian males.

03:02

mircea_popescu: these are the only folks for whom there isn't already $maxint in handouts

03:02

gabriel_laddel azn as in indian, but not chinese.

03:03

nah, some Chinese, Vietnamese too

03:03

but yes, there are a lot of indians, which I didn't previously notice

03:04

and blondy in black dress over there's almost hawt.

03:04

well... good for em.

03:04

(these being from the previous generations)

03:05

"Alum and current fellows have produced more than $100 million in economic activity including investments, exits, revenue, and grants. "

03:05

uh.

03:05

I, with the devil's own smile, invite them to take pictures

03:05

"If we show up at the border with That We're going straight to prison!"

03:05

"Fifty-eight organizations and startups have been founded by fellows, employing over 200 people, and creating new technologies that are being deployed around the world."

03:05

ahahahaha

03:05

wait, there's 40 people a year right ?

03:05

(From MPs gypsy girl story)

03:05

so basically they employ themselves ?

03:05

yeah

03:05

gabriel_laddel truth.

03:05

most of the companies are just pathetic in practice

03:06

mircea_popescu: the u.s. military technical term for this is 'self-licking icecream cone'

03:06

!s self-licking

03:06

10 results for 'self-licking' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=self-licking

03:06

the neat people in the Thiel fellowship are the mathematics kids, who are sort of the odd ones out

03:07

*

mircea_popescu was a recipient of something vaguely similar at a similar age.

03:07

it doesn't do much.

03:07

because it's a temporary parole, for one thing

03:07

if someone sent me 100k (magically, tax-free) i'd do... what? take 3 mo. off, spend the next 9 looking for next gig ?

03:08

you could ration it slowly if you lived in rural kansas

03:08

2 years to play with Mathematics sounds wonderfully useful to me.

03:08

ah, i a) didn't actually need the money ; b) wasn't really about the money per se anyway

03:08

well, in truth the Thiel fellowship doesn't even give it all away at once

03:08

which is fucking stupid

03:08

no, it's not.

03:08

they want them to play nicely with the world

03:08

fuck that

03:09

gabriel_laddel: play nicely ?

03:09

best way to get a bright kid killed is by giving him ten bricks of benjamins.

03:09

mircea_popescu: what, he buys bazooka ?

03:09

what if getting killed with honour is precisely what he wanted and needed

03:09

asciilifeform: they don't want them to e.g., make a napster

03:09

gabriel_laddel: wai wut

03:09

i thought that was the point

03:09

they dole it out a month at a time

03:09

make something thiel-flavoured

03:10

and check up on you

03:10

aha so kommisars.

03:10

asciilifeform kids. they'll find something to do.

03:10

gabriel_laddel: i didn't think the thiel thing could get -more- snoreworthy

03:10

but evidently i was wrong!

03:10

hehe

03:10

omg you buncha antisocial haters. you can't have a mentor or anything ?

03:10

it seems to me the model is to find smart, angry people, fund them and then when things go to shit, stand behind them and keep them out of trouble.

03:11

da fuck are some kids gonna suffer from talking to adults ?

03:11

but I don't know anything

03:11

what's wrong with enslaving yourself to someone better?

03:11

decimation: nothing - it's called army

03:12

if they dole it out month at a time - it's a fucking -job-

03:12

the 'adults' are not going to be happy about you writing a program that converts all books in libgen.info + all papers you can get of school networks into a useful format via a combination of OCR and heuristic hackery

03:12

which would actually be useful

03:12

asciilifeform it's called an annuity!

03:13

which is the better way to get a windfall anyway.

03:13

mircea_popescu: it's a job if you gotta do xxxxx to keep'em coming

03:13

gabriel_laddel how do you know this, sight unseen ?

03:13

and avoid doing yyyyy

03:13

asciilifeform how do you know this ?

03:13

only from gabriel_laddel's summary thus far

03:14

<mircea_popescu> and blondy in black dress over there's almost hawt. << reminds me of the intro line newcomers to pdx-burningman were subjected to without fail for years, presumably if the political correctness mob hasn't gotten to them yet still are: "are you hot?"

03:14

mircea_popescu: know what in particular?

03:14

gabriel_laddel thgat the adults are not going ot be happy.

03:15

Oh, I've teh insider information

03:15

ah.

03:15

i for one would like to know if any thiel folks have been 'fired'

03:15

and if so, for what.

03:15

you know blondy, too ?

03:15

i bet they're NDA'd etc. but if you turn the screws, can probably find out.

03:15

asciilifeform not a bad approach.

03:16

^ I know of one in particular...

03:16

ben_vulpes both genders ?

03:16

He presented someone else's program as his own. They didn't check, being fuckwits, but eventually found out.

03:16

mircea_popescu: everyone.

03:17

gabriel_laddel: i bet you could toss 19 out of 20 of'em for this

03:17

portland's a moderately kinky town.

03:17

gabriel_laddel why the fuck would he do that.

03:17

almost invariably 'high powered' kids in usa are simply cribbing mindlessly

03:17

ask a college prof

03:17

being a poorfag

03:17

ben_vulpes seems harmless enough.

03:17

mircea_popescu: sets the tone, you know?

03:18

*

decimation to bed

03:18

!down decimation

03:18

<asciilifeform> if someone sent me 100k (magically, tax-free) i'd do... what? take 3 mo. off, spend the next 9 looking for next gig ? << good grief your burn rate, man.

03:18

ben_vulpes at least his harem isn't 40k a month!

03:19

did i ever tell the tale of how i was once about to do a little consulting for an engineering prof, and discovered that the code that implemented 'his' algo was plagiarized wholesale by his students?

03:19

and what IS burning man but fuck club ?

03:19

and that the same happened again after he fired the first set and replaced entire staff ?

03:19

cribbed from public domain libs, quite unrelated to the actual project, passed off as 'new'

03:19

asciilifeform you didn't end up beaten as a result of this ?

03:20

*

mircea_popescu pictures kramer @ karate class.

03:20

mircea_popescu: i had to refuse the client

03:20

which was painful because he was a family friend and a man i respected

03:20

mircea_popescu: is that *your* harem's burn rate?

03:20

but he tried to convince me to participate in a sc4m4tr0n

03:20

knew about the 'little problem' and said nothing when commissioning the work

03:21

thought i wouldn't find out.

03:21

ben_vulpes nah merely reference to a discussion in logs a few days ago

03:21

!s 40k

03:21

93 results for '40k' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=40k

03:21

asciilifeform btw, what's the objection to macarthur prizes ?

03:21

mircea_popescu: no objection as such, aside from 'gimme'

03:21

125k a year for five years, beats thiel, but anyway

03:22

ah

03:22

just that none of the folks involved, afaik, coughed up anything i'd miss if it were thermonuked

03:22

all summed to zero.

03:22

imo it's pretty well designed.

03:22

designed to what ?

03:22

wolfram guy got it, didn't he ?

03:23

iirc he was already rich from scamming

03:23

that is, cribbed 'macsyma' and passed off as own work

03:23

*

asciilifeform doesn't like sc4mz0rz

03:23

anyway, for 500k, enough respectable names there.

03:24

yes but how many respectable -after- the prize and not before

03:24

as in, not at all before

03:24

street urchin

03:24

more than half.

03:25

Klainerman << fine example.

03:26

did he need it ?

03:26

or would've been golden with or without

03:26

romanian immigrant post revolution

03:26

whadda ya think ?

03:26

hm.

03:26

<decimation> what's wrong with enslaving yourself to someone better?, <asciilifeform> decimation: nothing - it's called army << do reconsider la serenissima in this light

03:26

*

asciilifeform not insisting it had a 0% coefficient of useful work

03:27

ben_vulpes: when do i get to die in a tank

03:27

and can it be a t-34

03:27

Norman Manea << another fine example.

03:28

mircea_popescu: iirc the way it worked (works? i think, still exists?) is via a kind of secret wot

03:28

which means that these folks weren't total islands

03:28

o look daniela rus too

03:28

no srsly, it's 3/3 so far.

03:29

asciilifeform yup. which is why i had a vague positive idea about it. never bothered looking.

03:29

but now that i did look, it seems clearly that the thing works.

03:29

asciilifeform: this is not the war you grew up idolizing. it's war, which means it's going to be horrible and unpleasant for all involved.

03:29

it has same problem as the aids test

03:29

MUCH better than the buffett out. "i leave my money to bil lgates"

03:29

ben_vulpes: it's got death, no ?

03:29

ben_vulpes: 'sexy' or not

03:29

so you claim.

03:30

ben_vulpes btw, daniela rus should be right up your alley.

03:30

same problem as aids test meaning here, that i'm much more interested in the folks left bugling in the dark

03:30

self reconfigurin robots etc

03:30

and i use extant academia as an antiwot

03:30

i.e. if you can get printed there, you're suspect

03:31

(at the very minimum - of being a snore)

03:31

mircea_popescu: i'm actually pretty disgusted with "modern" "robotics"

03:31

^

03:31

^^

03:31

a) it's all usg "tin woman" crap

03:31

mebbe look into this one ?

03:31

i'll *keep* looking

03:32

cursory inspection reveals nothing interesting.

03:32

wake me up when a roboticists asks me for the waveguide motor

03:32

i'm more interested in underactuated systems.

03:32

map servers and massively parallel SLAM

03:32

y'know, the one where you can have arbitrary jointless articulation without precision parts, lubrication, or freely moving parts at all

03:32

for the cost of a length of copper cable.

03:32

afaik the woman's idea was "hey, what if we made robots capable of altering their own geometry, that way they won't have to be pre-programmed"

03:32

which is a golden thought.

03:33

when somebody so much as asks, i'll believe there's life in 'robotics';

03:33

you still have to program the meta layer.

03:33

until then it's makework

03:33

and cargokultism

03:33

(yes i can buy a 4-axis arm from fujitsu, and it'll do same thing as in 1969, whoopie)

03:33

ben_vulpes or make more of them

03:34

^ ascii, I've mentioned this idea to 3 people - all reject it on grounds of "it can't be that easy, my school had all sorts people working on these problems and they never thought of it"

03:34

none took the time to test it out

03:34

mircea_popescu: doing any of it with mechanical articulation is a sad joke

03:34

especially and in particular the underwater stuff.

03:34

asciilifeform i think what was being contemplated was more akin to a synthetic amoeba than a mechanical sheep.

03:35

mircea_popescu: afaik the only place the required - non-negotiably - tech exists - is in my skullcase.

03:35

*

asciilifeform did look

03:35

so how would they ask ?

03:35

because i spilled it here, for one thing

03:35

may take a decade.

03:35

as a guy who's cobbled together the odd machine or two, the notion that you can have a million little bits cooperating to give you the power of a purpose-designed driveshaft one moment and slither through a keyhole the next strikes me as wankery of the first degree.

03:36

for another, spilled to various folks in periphery of academwot

03:36

ben_vulpes well, "cooperating".

03:36

ben_vulpes: what's your finger made of ?

03:36

purpose built mechanisms.

03:36

"if you're willing to pay for ten million of these, i can prove to you that in any conceivable situation no less than 3 will be useful to your purpose"

03:36

several joints, some tension mechanisms and some springs.

03:36

and good math to show it, too

03:37

grey goo pipe dreams.

03:37

anyway, this is a great convo but bed's better, so! tomorrow.

03:37

nightie

03:37

we don't even have computers that cooperate.

03:37

ben_vulpes: basic idea, if you recall, was same as in ordinary ac motor

03:37

that is, rotating field.

03:38

except you don't have a rotor or stator as such, they're dynamically 'moving' via phase shifting

03:39

this should be enough for chinese or north kr skunk works to build it.

03:39

and i sincerely hope they do.

03:39

perhaps same division that built al's thing.

03:40

superimposed waves traveling through wire applying force at arbitrary points?

03:40

aha

03:40

work it out yourself if you like

03:40

what's to work out?

03:40

the details

03:40

the ones where 'the devil lives'

03:41

realize, it flexes

03:41

(that being the point)

03:41

so geometry is not static

03:41

right, there's a recursive aspect to the problem.

03:41

only reason tesla didn't build it

03:41

didn't have a pc

03:41

otherwise all of the parts were available to him

03:42

aside from the sims.

03:42

(no, this is not in his materials, don't bother looking, merely pointing out that the fella who discovered rotating magnetic field application could have made the next step and went here)

03:43

this brings back my hankering for real time optimization problems.

03:43

i have a friend whom i see very rarely, and often asks about 'the elephant trunk'

03:44

and i say to him 'no, and probably never, need 1+ yr when i don't have to think about work even once;

03:44

'

03:44

ugh this conversation makes me downright mournful

03:44

the cockroaches take over - they will build.

03:44

morose*

03:44

do you know what i'm doing right now?

03:44

drink?

03:45

loading the "rails" stack into my head.

03:45

and yes - drinking. albeit lightly.

03:45

*

asciilifeform doesn't know precisely what is involved, but imagines that it's a rather dreary thing

03:47

i would rather be working on satoshi c++.

03:47

at least that bends somewhat to grep.

03:48

and... whatever that was.. doesn't ?

03:48

closed turd?

03:49

*

asciilifeform to bed

03:53

not...readily.

03:53

i must learn more incantations, apparently.

~ 16 minutes ~

04:10

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16389 @ 0.00040823 = 6.6905 BTC [-] {2}

04:11

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58718 @ 0.00038879 = 22.829 BTC [-] {2}

~ 17 minutes ~

04:28

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Frondizi_y_Kennedy_en_Estados_Unidos_1961.jpg

04:28

File:Frondizi y Kennedy en Estados Unidos 1961.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1BO6Uhr )

04:28

they look like trustworthy fellows

04:34

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24300 @ 0.00038818 = 9.4328 BTC [-]

~ 1 hours 6 minutes ~

05:40

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79150 @ 0.00040432 = 32.0019 BTC [+] {2}

05:41

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36200 @ 0.0004118 = 14.9072 BTC [+]

05:42

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36200 @ 0.0004118 = 14.9072 BTC [+]

05:43

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6344 @ 0.0004136 = 2.6239 BTC [+]

~ 1 hours 47 minutes ~

07:31

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31400 @ 0.00039253 = 12.3254 BTC [-]

07:33

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00041375 = 16.881 BTC [+] {2}

~ 33 minutes ~

08:07

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22847 @ 0.00039253 = 8.9681 BTC [-]

08:08

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23553 @ 0.00039181 = 9.2283 BTC [-]

~ 56 minutes ~

09:05

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100328 @ 0.00041223 = 41.3582 BTC [+] {2}

09:06

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74453 @ 0.0004198 = 31.2554 BTC [+] {2}

09:07

;;bc,stats

09:07

09:11

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2747 @ 0.00039181 = 1.0763 BTC [-]

09:12

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38353 @ 0.00038818 = 14.8879 BTC [-]

09:16

gabriel_laddel: the 'adults' are not going to be happy about you writing a program that converts all books in libgen.info + all papers you can get of school networks into a useful format via a combination of OCR and heuristic hackery << Plain OCR is normally sufficient for books without advanced mathematics as long as you are willing to liberate the pages from the spine. Test it with a sheetfed scanner sometime.

~ 49 minutes ~

10:05

http://aadrake.com/command-line-tools-can-be-235x-faster-than-your-hadoop-cluster.html

10:05

Adam Drake ... ( http://bit.ly/1wAlWFK )

~ 40 minutes ~

10:45

fluffypony: That is a great experiment. The PGN format is maximally user and machine readable. Amazing how the blockchain makes some stuff people try to pass as "big data" seem much smaller.

10:45

AMAZING COMPANY!

10:49

blockchain is not big data, not yet at least

10:50

everyone's wants to work on "big" data now, you use enough buzzwords you get a raise

10:50

yeah Hadoop != blockchain

10:50

punkman: Blockchain's awfully dense.

10:51

Hadoop doesn't have anything remotely resembling a blockchain

10:51

why would it

10:51

I dunno that hadoop does anything that can't be doen better with key value stores

10:51

it's also exceptionally powerful for analysing very large datasets

10:52

like in the multi-terabyte or multi-petabyte range

10:52

BingoBoingo: it *is* a key-value store

10:52

what it does better is that each piece of data is stored on at least 3 servers in the cluster

10:52

and then queries are distributed

10:53

so map->reduce works by sending the queries out to all the servers, they do the analysis, reduce it, and send the results back

10:53

and then all you're doing is re-assembling the small set of results you get and doing any final analysis on it

10:53

It sounds like if hadoop appears to solve a problem, then you have a number of other problems

10:54

well it's Java, so you are fucked

10:56

why? it's not accessible on the open Internet

10:56

because enterprise

10:59

maybe I've never seen the good Java

10:59

probably because it's buried in 132 subfolders :P

11:02

fluffypony: why? it's not accessible on the open Internet << or is it... https://www.shodan.io/search?query=hadoop

11:02

hadoop - Shodan Search ... ( http://bit.ly/1E66QIB )

11:04

badly configured anything is bad :-P

11:09

http://qntra.net/2015/02/tour-of-a-chinese-bitcoin-mine/ << so I tried this Path of Exile game mentioned in the article

11:09

Tour Of A Chinese Bitcoin Mine | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1E68nyk )

11:09

weird economy

11:14

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33538 @ 0.00038826 = 13.0215 BTC [+]

~ 37 minutes ~

11:51

!up AdrianoOliveira

11:52

AdrianoOliveira

thanks

11:57

http://oglaf.com/virgincobbler

11:57

The Virgin Cobbler ... ( http://bit.ly/1aHnkwi )

12:03

Ah jurov you found that oglaf before the bot could

12:07

by force of procrastination!

12:15

http://hpmor.com/chapter/113 lol yudkowski threatening the readers by "Otherwise you will get a shorter and sadder ending."

12:15

Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, Chapter 113: Final Exam ... ( http://bit.ly/1aHrOmp )

12:16

gotta start the monthly stuff now

~ 15 minutes ~

12:31

lol

12:33

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41400 @ 0.00040201 = 16.6432 BTC [+]

12:45

mircea_popescu: and what IS burning man but fuck club ? << not entirely this is about 1/3 of it. Another 1/3 is "Holy shit I'm on so many drugs what's even going on, how do I survive, OMG this is so fucking awesome I wanna run around and do nothing cause I have no obligations or worries at the moment." Another 1/3 is "Holy fuck that giant thing is burning holy fuck holy fuck that is fucking awesome." IMO Burns are probably the

12:48

probably not your cup of tea because it is an implementation of "communitas" or rather an existential communitas as Victor Turner explains.

12:53

http://democracyos.org/ << um why?

12:53

"With 2 million+ citizens, Buenos Aires is one of the most demanding cities in the world. All 16 political groups in power helped to make it the first one in Latin America to let its citizens have direct input on its bills." Uh huh.

12:55

fuck - with the thickest stake in the wallachian forests - the people who brand every idiot ubuntu rebrand as an 'os'

12:56

Looks like the founder is HQ'ed in B-A

13:07

asciilifeform: it's a web thingy, not ubuntu

13:07

punkman: even worse

13:10

basically forum software

13:10

totally gonna work "With a clear deadline, get everyone on board to reach a voted decision and say good bye to all the bikeshedding."

13:10

punkman: i think democracy and cryptofeudalism are incompatible

13:11

oh it has a blockchain too "Trust is deeply built into DemocracyOS using decentralized authority to certify every single decision made."

13:12

"But aware that in politics not everything happens online, we also created a new kind of political party: The Net Party. Its candidates are committed to always vote in Congress according to what citizens vote online."

13:13

*

asciilifeform head-desks

13:13

"The foundational document of The Net Party is its manifesto. Written in a collaborative process by the founding members, it consists of 60 expressions in tweet form so it can be easily shared in any kind of network. It expresses our deepest beliefs on how democracy and the net can help improve our institutions."

13:14

"The Net Party got 22.000 votes (1.2%) in its 1st election in Buenos Aires, October 2013."

13:14

myeah

13:16

asciilifeform: it's okay. it's not your fault.

13:16

lol, virtually undisguised usg muppetronics

13:16

but everyone loves Chuck E Cheese and Disneyland!!!

13:18

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=25-02-2015#1033086 "the administration is boosting efforts to counter ISIS on social media. The plan centers around a small State Department agency that pushes against ISIS and other groups' online propaganda."

13:18

Logged on 25-02-2015 10:37:23; punkman: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/02/17/state-department-spokeswoman-floats-jobs-as-answer-to-isis/

13:18

""We're getting beaten on volume, so the only way to compete is by aggregating, curating and amplifying existing content," Richard Stengel, under secretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs"

13:18

spam like a pro, usg.

13:19

good afternoon mr. popescu

13:19

hey

13:20

how are you?

13:20

not bad.

13:22

http://www.laverdad.es/gente-estilo/201502/16/detienen-mujer-masturbarse-cine-20150216133322.html

13:22

Detienen a una mujer por masturbarse en el cine con 50 sombras de Grey . La Verdad ... ( http://bit.ly/1zvBgOt )

13:24

pr piece.

13:24

^ was my guess

13:24

so fucking transparent by now. you seen the buzzfeed "great idea" ?

13:24

surprising that this isn't a more common tack for these

13:24

"great idea" << nope

13:25

they created permanent sessions for users, showed some a dress like so, others a dress like something else

13:25

then idiot usians had debates about the true dress and the biological causes of not seeing it right

13:25

because they're, by now, this fucking stupid.

13:26

i could scarcely conceive of an experiment to more convincingly verify the "our audience is entirely worthless" theory. it's verified alright.

13:26

wai wat

13:27

http://www.europapress.es/desconecta/curiosity/noticia-explicacion-vestido-cambia-color-genera-mas-27-millones-visitas-20150227184200.html

13:27

The Dress: La explicación del vestido que cambia de color genera más de 27 millones de visitas ... ( http://bit.ly/1AKWJYO )

13:27

there, to keep to the es theme.

13:30

!up lrak

13:30

!up mogreen

13:30

!up nijotz

13:31

!up so

13:31

!up Stellarflip

13:31

!up tsoulus

13:31

!up yrashk

13:33

;;later tell gabriel_laddel argentina has a fixation on electing newspaper men. mitre, frondizi, etc.

13:33

The operation succeeded.

13:36

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27800 @ 0.0003877 = 10.7781 BTC [-] {2}

13:36

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037936 << i played it maybe two years ago, was a decent diablo clone.

13:36

Logged on 01-03-2015 16:09:30; punkman: weird economy

13:37

the crafting's kinda fun

13:39

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037942 << i found one before too! your bot's like broken.

13:39

Logged on 01-03-2015 17:03:26; BingoBoingo: Ah jurov you found that oglaf before the bot could

13:39

!s from: oglafbot

13:39

0 results for 'from: oglafbot' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3A+oglafbot

13:40

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-03-2015#1036688

13:40

Logged on 01-03-2015 01:32:37; mircea_popescu: @ BingoBoingo : http://oglaf.com/rally/

13:44

kakobrekla

BingoBoingo i think you need to cut the space there

13:45

!s from:oglafbot

13:45

28 results for 'from:oglafbot' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Aoglafbot

13:45

ty kakobrekla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=23-02-2015#1029530

13:45

Logged on 23-02-2015 00:47:56; oglafbot: http://oglaf.com/rally/

13:46

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65247 @ 0.00038578 = 25.171 BTC [-]

13:56

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34350 @ 0.0003848 = 13.2179 BTC [-] {3}

13:57

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037950 << it's just "poor kids in college". roughly speaking salmon to the bear.

13:57

Logged on 01-03-2015 17:48:00; thestringpuller: probably not your cup of tea because it is an implementation of "communitas" or rather an existential communitas as Victor Turner explains.

13:58

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037958 i don't even want to get into a discussion of how barbarously stupid they are.

13:58

Logged on 01-03-2015 18:10:24; punkman: totally gonna work "With a clear deadline, get everyone on board to reach a voted decision and say good bye to all the bikeshedding."

14:00

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2015#1037971 << "i have an idea... let's pay isis people to tweet anti-isis messages instead of beheading our guys. a) it worked for the idiot usians and b) it's easier to do, right ? which is what the consumers have come to expect"

14:00

Logged on 01-03-2015 18:18:36; punkman: ""We're getting beaten on volume, so the only way to compete is by aggregating, curating and amplifying existing content," Richard Stengel, under secretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs"

14:00

this is pretty much the entire story of the us : let's pay everyone pretend money so they pretend we're important enough to invent money.

14:01

approximately the life plan of a sexually worthless, narcissistically superlative 15 yo priss.

14:07

mircea_popescu: "pay everyone pretend money" << reminds me of http://americandad.wikia.com/wiki/Red_October_Sky from american dad

14:08

"When Francine tells Stan she wishes he hadn't spent all their savings, he says he needed to spend money to make money. Francine then says that Stan didn't make any money, which Stan says implies that he didn't spend any money either"

14:11

o.O

14:11

what's this, the simpsons theatrical release ?

14:12

nah it's seth mcfarlane trolling amercians cause they're too dumb to realize what's really going on

14:25

mircea_popescu: It's a spin off of a spin off of a spin off, because when people develop a taste for a particular shit, why not enlist more orfices to produce it

14:25

mhm

14:25

for the record, i just started writing a solution to that harry potter thing.

14:26

solution?

14:26

i never read the damned books, but the challenge is interesting.

14:26

should be done in an hour.

14:38

http://hpmor.com/chapter/4 << Monetary system

14:38

Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, Chapter 4: The Efficient Market Hypothesis ... ( http://bit.ly/1aI0nsQ )

14:38

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104700 @ 0.00038341 = 40.143 BTC [-]

14:47

.

14:52

jurov http://trilema.com/2015/the-harry-potter-challenge/

14:52

The Harry Potter challenge pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1aI3CjT )

14:55

orly

14:55

yeh.

14:57

it's good. But not clear if voldemort going completely insane implies "allow Harry to evade immediate death"

14:58

he crushed the situation.

14:58

it never happened.

15:00

anyway, some comments in the general, for the aspiring writer : a) the most important weapon in the quiver of the scammer, which is what all fiction is, is misdirection. you were being misdirected into thinking harry potter should have agency by all the insistence on how he doesn't. (look up chekov's gun, while at it). the correct solution of a problem of agency is to attack the agent.

15:00

which is why it took me twenny minutes.

15:00

mircea_popescu: related field - stage magic

15:00

b) agency means growth. you can recast any actual situation into something that's a personal experience, and vice-versa. this is a major power.

15:00

asciilifeform quite.

15:01

unrelated, and for aficionados only: re: the old 'integrated circuits by hand' thread: http://www.155la3.ru/k240.htm

15:01

... ( http://bit.ly/1Dr4wYQ )

15:01

voldemort jacking off by himself to visions of a destroyed enemy is not unlike harry potter "studying magic really hard".

15:01

pictured device is a half-adder

15:03

when i was a boy, these were being sold, laid on carpets in the town market, right next to rabbits and dogs

15:03

i saw that kinda flea market

15:04

for some reason the theft of several examples of these curios by usg from sunken submarine is still considered a deep secret in usa

15:04

(ru sub, howard hughes and his record-breaking salvage boat, famous project)

15:07

if one were to read the data sheet (scan, http://www.155la3.ru/datafiles/2lb402_tu_1975.pdf ) will find that it had around 50-60 nSec propagation delay. which is pretty good for the period

15:07

... ( http://bit.ly/1aI7oK4 )

15:08

i should like to learn how these were assembled.

15:08

one can safely guess that it was pants-creamingly cheap

15:08

compared to american ic of the modern type, of that period

15:09

also notice the em cage around the package.

15:10

correction: first device pictured is a timer. second - half adder

15:10

or rather, eight half-adders

15:11

Full adders are cooler than half adders

15:11

need dat carry bit all day erryday negro

15:11

the timer appears, on cursory reading, to be a clone of the universally known '555'

15:12

but contains six of'em

15:12

anyway, posted here solely for the photos of 'what if we just had very small transistors and planted them down on very fine pcb'

15:12

discussed in last week's thread.

15:14

asciilifeform: you don't like IC's?

15:15

thestringpuller: thread was re: whether and how one could build a reasonable computer without access to ic fab or the output of one

15:15

that is to say, with the ability to arrange arbitrary logical elements

15:15

ah yes. log reference or search keyword?

15:15

i have pondered the same thing myself

15:15

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-02-2015#1022401

15:15

Logged on 17-02-2015 18:03:08; asciilifeform: it does no good to take extant ic fab practice and work 'down'

15:16

(thread above and below link)

15:17

I do wonder if we'll ever be able to print IC's without being millionaires or wholesalers.

15:17

wholesellers*

15:18

thestringpuller: if interested in this subject, read - at least that - thread

15:22

jurov what is this anyway ? i thought some woman wrote harry potter ?

15:22

who's yakudskty

15:22

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26323 @ 0.00040124 = 10.5618 BTC [+]

15:22

!s eliezer

15:22

4 results for 'eliezer' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=eliezer

15:22

!s yudkowsky

15:22

18 results for 'yudkowsky' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=yudkowsky

15:22

and yes, j.k. rowling aoriginally wrote it

15:23

we did yudkowsky here at least five times, iirc

15:23

but herr yudkowsky was apparently upset at harry's stupidity and wrote a fanfic

15:23

i dun get it.

15:23

oh oh i c.

15:23

jurov: nope. he wrote it as a propaganda device for his cult

15:23

and it works

15:23

ah, that too

15:23

so ima have two things out of this. first an arguent with alf, then once laddel and the rest of the proponents of "intelligence" wake up, ima have one with them.

15:24

asciilifeform: re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-02-2015#1022584 << So what is the "value" of interns?

15:24

so asciilifeform, do you see how the situation here maps exactly on the uncle al and the magical molecule situation ?

15:24

mircea_popescu: i read the foibles of al slightly differently. more as a failure to intellectually detach from usg

15:25

because, in his mind, there is no place to go

15:25

but have i just forked "the world" ?

15:25

i have no guarantee that this goes into the... canon, or w/e, fanon-type-45345

15:26

the way al saw his situation, there are precisely two choices for him - usg and its apparatchiks, and the world of unfiltered and unfundable idiot alchemists, astrologers, 'phree energy' imbeciles, and other usenet denizens which he spent all of the '90s recreationally hunting for sport

15:26

right. and here the same : paste your text as a "review", or publish it on your blog.

15:27

these figures living, as they do, in 'forked worlds'

15:27

like you know, all the other blogs.

15:27

except... not.

15:27

why not ?

15:27

he did publish on his www

15:27

in this perspective, al's lament reduces to tim sweeney's lament. "oh woe that not being in the wot my ideas hold no value"

15:27

the thing's been there since mid '90s

15:27

well... stfu and get in the wot. nobody, NOBODY is above the intern work for a year.

15:27

asciilifeform this is not how this works.

15:27

the equivalent of "story published on blog" is "50k calorimetry assay"

15:27

he wants to be in the wot of the folks with the machine

15:27

not "also published on blog"

15:28

the bloody machine

15:28

not ours.

15:28

fuck him. it's not about what he wants.

15:28

he does not want, he does.

15:28

this is the cornerstone.

15:28

people have to fucking realise, for once in their life, that a_) fuck them and b) it's not about what they want.

15:28

incidentally, upon rereading last night's log, i must publish a correction

15:28

i did emphatically did -not- invent or design the calorimetric test

15:28

but rather the feedstock for the spectroscopic test.

15:29

of similar difficulty and expense

15:29

aha

15:30

but back to the story : if your call on the y fellow is correct, he makes for an absoluely perfect model of "chemistry usg".

15:30

idea being, 'me: if gravity has chiral component, consider two propellers glued back to back as 'barbell'. ought to rotate in a particular direction depending on orientation. align using electromagnetic means, infer angular momenta' al: 'here's how'

15:31

*molecular 'propellers' that is

15:31

not, of course, macroscopic ones

15:31

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22530102.600-google-wants-to-rank-websites-based-on-facts-not-links.html#.VPN2taxx0xD

'barbell' rotates if propellers face in same dir

15:31

chetty

15:32

Google wants to rank websites based on facts not links - 28 February 2015 - New Scientist ... ( http://bit.ly/1DrcfGl )

15:32

but if not - bond strain increases - which you can also measure

15:32

chetty: based on phacts

15:32

chetty this has been going on for a while actually.

15:33

asciilifeform: re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-02-2015#1022638

15:33

^- didn't he end up eating green eggs and ham at the end of the book?

15:33

thestringpuller: http://www-psych.nmsu.edu/~linda/greeneggs/gepage1.htm

15:33

^ l33t w4r3z

15:34

and, spoiler: sure he did

15:34

chetty

<mircea_popescu> chetty this has been going on for a while actually.//it just sounds worse when the internet is a public utility

15:34

hehe

15:35

but seriously, wikipedia is returned because "fact:wikipedia is what we promote" rather than any "algorithmics"

15:35

and so are plenty of other things. the guardian and washpo and the rest of the buzzfeed carrion crawlers aren't up there because they favorably compete with qntra on some sort of machine basis

15:35

they're just "facts".

15:35

and once i get my hands around their throats, the "facts" will be slightly divers.

15:46

[MPEX] [S.BBET] 25000 @ 0.000065 = 1.625 BTC [-]

15:48

ben_vulpes: http://portal.tpu.ru/files/departments/publish/VK_AkylovBaydakovVasiliev.pdf << even if you don't know ru, you may find this interesting for the diagrams. use and engineering manual to famous ru 'igla' ('needle') rocket.

15:48

in other news, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak-wzUv_FvY

15:48

Physical Examination of the Vulva, Vagina and Cervix in the Mare - Towcester Equine Clinic - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Drgyl5 )

15:48

afaik no analogous american document exists in open literature

15:52

punkman: re: path of exile, i like that the economy is based around orbs (at least it was when i was playing) but i quit after my hardcore char died in lower 90s

15:53

for anyone that has not played it, orbs act a little similar to soj economy, but unlike d2, poe did away with gold drops and crap like that, pure barter system

15:56

the soj economy was rigged!

15:56

cazalla: was a dooper

15:56

!!!!!

15:56

jkjk

15:56

but srsly soj economy was so annoying. the rune economy was a bit better

15:57

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00040124 = 1.0031 BTC [+]

15:58

i didn't play much lod which from memory brought runes

15:58

i tried to sell orbs for btc in poe 2 years ago but noone had heard of bitcoin except 1 guy

15:59

baal runs made it easy to get that XP

15:59

just sit in corner level up

16:00

then go magic find on meph runs

16:00

LoD was dope

16:03

thestringpuller, poe map runs > baal runs

16:04

it's one thing they did really well but i think poe made it more noob friendly

16:04

D2 was kinda like crack. You played it, didn't know why, and before you knew it you were hooked.

16:05

problem with playing D2 from australia was that you could still only get dialup and it was better to play on a fake battle.net hosted at your isp

16:11

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32500 @ 0.00039199 = 12.7397 BTC [-]

16:23

"Background for non-transhumanists:

16:23

Transhumanists are not fond of death. We would stop it if we could. To this end we support research that holds out hope of a future in which humanity has defeated death. Death is an extremely difficult technical problem, to be attacked with biotech and nanotech and other technological means. I do not tell a tale of the land called Future, nor state as a fact that humanity will someday be free of death - I have no magic

16:23

al ability to see through time. But death is a great evil, and I will oppose it whenever I can. If I could create a world where people lived forever, or at the very least a few billion years, I would do so."

16:23

lmao this fucktard.

16:23

why are all these driven nuts so mentally simple anyway ?

16:24

mircea_popescu: it's bait

16:25

he's no imbecile, but cynical bastard who knows exactly what he's doing

16:25

if it is or if it isn't...

16:25

ancient device of immortality 'jam tomorrow' promise

16:25

reworked for homo redditicus

16:25

so he's another modlbug. what difference does it make ? still simple.

16:25

simple bait, works.

16:25

besides the point.,

16:26

"why are you spending your time with cockroaches ?" "i kill them" "yes. but you're still spending time with them."

16:26

^ life of programmers

16:27

imagine the horror of this. "i invented a machine which lets you live on for a billion years, so you can write stupid shit so that stupid people keep on powering it"

16:27

said every literary hack ever.

16:28

anyway. if there's anyone who actually had the patience ot read all this stuff and wishes to proffer a summary please do.

16:29

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=18-11-2014#927657

16:29

Logged on 18-11-2014 15:38:39; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu with regard to the 'abuse of statistical devices' outlined in note iii, the accomplished master of the art is a fellow named yudkowsky (search #b-a log). he isn't an idiot, bastard knows exactly what he's doing, and his cult is a veritable vacuum trap for thinking folks

16:29

i see the guy's been pouring out a coupla million words, which is more than moldbug, but i won't be bothering to actually read the shit, it's too stale.

16:29

asciilifeform aha.

16:38

CLOUD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk << at least I'm not him

16:43

asciilifeform: "igla" << why must you torture me

16:45

there's no reason why these things should cost $MAXINT, aside from the prohibition on owning the constituent materials for any not favorite son.

16:45

ugh your paradigms are infectious.

16:46

asciilifeform: homo redditicus << can I use this in future qntra articles?

16:49

asciilifeform: IFF mechanism << another application for asymmetric crypto.

16:51

asciilifeform: gorgeous diagrams. thank you.

16:54

http://qntra.net/2015/03/man-who-establishes-bounty-to-replace-vessennes-bitcoin-foundation-on-board/

~ 22 minutes ~

17:16

danielpbarron

!up indiancandy1

17:17

danielpbarron: you must be omnitwitteraware

17:17

second bb posted my article was downstaires getting moar beer

17:17

i see "You have 1 new twitter mention" on my phone

17:17

lolol

17:17

*

danielpbarron shrugs

17:18

indiancandy1

thanks daniel

17:27

oh.. no scoopbot :\ http://qntra.net/2015/03/silberts-bit-to-trade-on-pink-sheets/

17:27

Silbert's BIT To Trade On Pink Sheets | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1M0RMNn )

17:31

btw have you seen the "nyse to invest to CBSE" tidbit?

17:32

http://www.pymnts.com/news/2015/nyse-usaa-and-bbva-make-75m-coinbase-investment/

17:32

NYSE, USAA and BBVA Make $75M Coinbase Investment | PYMNTS.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1M0S1I6 )

17:34

!t m d.cbse

17:34

You had the last Philistine. This one's mine.

17:35

lol, assbot ate it

17:36

The total raised by Coinbase has now hit $106 million. Coinbase, a San Francisco-based company reports that there are 2.1 million bitcoin wallets from a customer base of 1.9 million

17:36

;;calc 106/1.9

17:36

55.7894736842

17:36

^ per chump

17:37

indiancandy1

oi

17:37

jurov, yeah that's old news now

17:38

haven't seen it discussed here

17:38

maybe i miss something but D.CBSE looks attractive

17:39

i think BingoBoingo wrote that up if memory serves

17:39

Old news, being repeated because google news sucks

17:39

jurov: attractive to short?

17:40

you don't believe they can IPO it at > 46 million?

17:40

that's what D.CBSE price implies

17:42

jurov: haven't they raised in the 100's of mn?

17:42

yes

17:42

SF, prosperity built on fake money.

17:43

so if they manage to IPO coinbase, it can raise so much, no?

17:43

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24666 @ 0.00039445 = 9.7295 BTC [+] {2}

17:43

they'd have to raise more than their "implied valuation" right? like 100 mn+ ?

17:44

so early investors can exit cleanly, aka the FB IPO scam.

17:44

For D.CBSE long investment to be even, it needs "only" $46m IPO or buyout

17:44

at current btcusd

17:44

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14984 @ 0.00040351 = 6.0462 BTC [+] {2}

17:44

and i'm curious why mircea thinks that won't ever happen

17:44

risky cause who knows if they ever IPO...

17:45

or get bought out.

17:45

imo they can't afford to wait either

17:46

(they=the bezzle investors)

17:47

jurov: what if the bezzle investors don't care tho?

17:47

you do bring up good question tho: what is the bezzle investors endgame (or what they have in mind at least)?

17:48

waterfall operators definitely care

17:49

yes, maybe they want just to drive it to the ground

17:50

i dunno, just asking. and don't want to tie more bitcoins for indeterminate time in D.CBSE, either.

17:51

!up indiancandy1

17:51

if company is run into ruins (i.e. MtGox)...it is moot issue

17:51

indiancandy1

hi mp

17:52

<jurov> you don't believe they can IPO it at > 46 million? << you realise this round was utterly dillutive right ?

17:53

75mn with btc at 250 means 300k extra btc worth of shares.

17:53

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14539 @ 0.00038341 = 5.5744 BTC [-]

17:55

yes, dilutive.. on other side, it increased the number of people interested to inflate it beyond all reason and then release it

17:55

right.

17:56

just because of btc/usd vagaries, the original investment (which happened at 1200) lost 85% of its value.

17:57

<jurov> that's what D.CBSE price implies << actually, no, the price implies they can't sell for over 350k btc at the time they sell.

17:58

ben_vulpes: gorgeous diagrams << that thing contains perhaps 80% of the info required to construct the rocket.

17:59

ben_vulpes: the algorithmics are not described in great detail, but the waveforms representing the proportional-control mechanism are shown, and at this point the 'multicopter' folks have rederived all of it and then some

17:59

very basic maths

17:59

they can't sell for over 350k btc.. << or else? you'll keep selling as many D.CBSE as necessary?

18:00

suppose in 2020 coinbase lists on nyse, 100mn shares, and they go for 50 bux each. that's 5 bn.

18:00

suppose at the same time btc/usd trades for 18`560

18:01

at that point, the coinbase listing has actually been a net loss for d.cbse holders.

18:03

ben_vulpes: some of the more interesting stuff is in the text - e.g., description of the molten-electrolyte battery; the sensor cooling system; the guidance loop per se

18:06

ben_vulpes: i'll add that the document is in fact a textbook for detachment commanders operating the rocket

18:07

published by tomsk politechnik university press

18:10

similar textbook for a cannon: http://portal.tpu.ru/files/departments/publish/VK_Machinko.pdf

18:10

jurov as an example, if someone bought 100 shares on mpex today at the 0.239 price paying 23.9 btc, he would control (if memory serves) 1% of the 1% f.derp stake in the origial coinbase. that'd entitle him to 0.01% of the value of 50/350 parts in the coinbase ipo, which would come to

18:10

;;calc 5000000000×50÷350×0.0001

18:10

Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)

18:10

;;calc 5000000000*50/350*0.0001

18:10

71428.5714286

18:11

71k usd is a great return for a 24 btc investment,

18:11

(yes, mircea_popescu would probably point out that it is not a cannon, but a heavy machine-gun.)

18:11

provided coinbase goes to 5bn while btc stays under

18:11

;;calc 71428.5714286 / 23.9

18:11

2988.64315601

18:12

otherwise, if coinbase opens for a mkt cap of 250mn in two years (accounting for inflation, basically)...

18:15

anyway, the utter chilling of d.* trade past while shows kinda plainly where that ship's going, imo.

18:15

i see

18:18

obv this is just napkin calcs, a definitive version'd come out once that unicorn stomps its foot.

18:22

https://www.quantcast.com/qntra.net << remarkably unsticky, dat social media "traffic"

18:22

Qntra.net Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1z30vvN )

18:24

oh and thx for shedding the light on d.cbse

18:26

(and all this neglecting their previous round, http://recode.net/2014/11/14/bitcoin-company-coinbase-raising-new-investment-at-400-million-valuation/ )

18:26

Bitcoin Company Coinbase Raising New Investment at $400 Million Valuation | Re/code ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZ4Wap )

18:27

basically, they're trying for a usg mpex. which... hey, fine, have fun trying.

18:27

mircea_popescu, yeah i think it was bb that said we'd be lucky to turn 1% of it into reg readers

18:27

!t m f.mpif

18:27

[MPEX:F.MPIF] 1D: 0.000207 / 0.000207 / 0.000207 (1000 shares, 0.21 BTC), 7D: 0.000207 / 0.000207 / 0.000207 (1000 shares, 0.21 BTC), 30D: 0.000206 / 0.00020657 / 0.000207 (1750 shares, 0.36 BTC)

18:29

mircea_popescu: they're trying for a usg mpex. << More like Reddit MPEX

18:29

thestringpuller no.

18:29

i thought it was a cardinal sin for it to be called anything other than MPEx? :P

18:30

although coinbase is a part of the waterfall only derps utilize it.

18:30

well, horowitz and the rest of the policy vehicles are on board, so.

18:31

this doesn't mean the customer base is anything other than homo redditicus

18:32

although MPex has it's idiots (see: http://trilema.com/2013/because-most-people-are-idiots-in-spite-of-never-manning-up-and-admitting-to-it/) don't think it's near the same percentages as coinbase users

18:32

i have nfi why you imagine the userbase is important in this discussion.

18:33

but in other news, http://i.imgur.com/kqxF9Mo.jpg

18:33

... ( http://bit.ly/1AZ665V )

18:35

and incidentally that must be a typo, 1.9mn users 2.1mn accounts. more like 190k.

18:35

seems improbable even that many actually sent the ridoinculous "kyc" paperwork.

18:39

cazalla the "usg mpex" comment was chiefly because there's no conceivable need a webwallet operator could have for even 1mn.

18:39

somewhat mirroring the "mpex is worth a billion dollars ?!?!?!" thing.

18:39

mircea_popescu: i have nfi why you imagine the userbase is important << I don't but the inevitabilibty of such an endeavor (i.e. http://qntra.net/2015/02/us-political-crisis-may-impoverish-homeland-security-department/#comment-11399), doesn't seem like a good thing

18:40

mebbe so.

18:40

particularly with "those people" involved

18:40

im moreover curious if they're going to actually try and rescue the scam foundation or just make a new and "real" one.

18:41

kinda win-win situation, if they try to rescue the scam foundation they will fail, if they don't you know we scare them.

18:41

what if they just let foundation die and then try again?

18:41

thestringpuller the only "people involved" by now are horowitz and the us fed.

18:41

there is no endgame for them launching a foundation.

18:42

or resucing existing one

18:43

if there's one thing we 'know' about the undead, it is that they can walk indefinitely until physically scattered

18:43

into smallish pieces

18:43

consider the 'silent circle' and 'redphone' crap by the subverted zimmerman

18:43

anal opening a mile wide is found? no matter, carries on exactly as before.

18:43

asciilifeform: we also know undead are more "effective" when there are lots of them.

18:44

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-06-2014#700916

18:44

Logged on 04-06-2014 00:08:26; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the buggers' traditional defense is to pretend that the event was a non-event - or, if this is impractical, to continue living in an imaginary world where they 'scooped' the story first, and all of the 'unsanctioned' discussion never happened.

18:44

asciilifeform notice how none of the coverage included a "this C round utterly dilutes naive investors from the previous B and A rounds"

18:44

heck, the B round's not even mentioned AT ALL.

18:44

mircea_popescu: because that's SOP !

18:44

also sop

18:45

that'd be like coverage of an assassination describing the exact mechanical workings of the rifle

18:45

yeah well...

18:45

'and then the hammer hit the firing pin, and the...'

18:45

so some derp on reddit wanted to know "why do we even want to kill banks then" in the blockchain subversion debate.

18:46

well... this is why : so this sort of shit stops washing.

18:46

not so that random redditard can buy his porn for 0 fees.

18:46

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38850 @ 0.0003979 = 15.4584 BTC [+]

18:48

( http://trilema.com/2015/and-then-she-went-splat-on-the-asphalt/#footnote_5_60229 ref)

18:48

And then she went splat! on the asphalt. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZ8Cck )

18:49

'why spent time with roaches ?'

18:49

i eat them.

18:49

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37739 @ 0.00040159 = 15.1556 BTC [+] {2}

18:49

chinese school, i see.

19:03

http://explo.yt/post/2015/03/02/F.MPIF-February-2015-trading-statement

19:03

F.MPIF February 2015 trading statement - serialized delusions ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZbhmt )

19:04

mircea_popescu, for sake of thestringpuller and mine private conversation, have you ever bedded a north korean woman?

19:17

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70700 @ 0.00038261 = 27.0505 BTC [-] {2}

19:19

!s my face is a pancake

19:19

1 results for 'my face is a pancake' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=my+face+is+a+pancake

~ 16 minutes ~

19:35

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35550 @ 0.00040421 = 14.3697 BTC [+] {2}

19:36

<asciilifeform> very basic maths << so much so that even i did them in 'uni'

19:37

there is a reason i call this kind of document torture.

19:38

i could make these things.

19:38

but...

19:38

"one year, no distractions."

19:39

ben_vulpes: betcha one could do considerably better - from first principles - with modern tech

19:39

ben_vulpes: the rocket described in the book is older than i am

19:39

ben_vulpes: the originals didn't even contain microprocessor.

19:40

ben_vulpes: and does one even need a rocket against a rotating-wing machine, or would a swarm of multicopters suffice.

19:40

(disposable, of course)

19:41

asciilifeform: well yes, improvements in performance and reductions in cost exercises for not even terribly alert reader.

19:42

anyways, armsmithing for the next engagements is terribly interesting and entirely impossible to do from where i am.

19:42

those who do in these parts - aren't interested in novel strategies or applications of commodity technology

19:42

can still think.

19:42

dream.

19:42

and write down for the ones who make it out alive.

19:43

nah.

19:43

these designs have value.

19:45

the *real* value though, is in the strategist given free reign to be creative.

19:45

ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-02-2015#1022459

19:45

Logged on 17-02-2015 18:16:06; mircea_popescu: in any case, strategically speaking, it will be a lot easier, cheaper and blood-economical to unseat the fiat atrocity supporting the welfare state by destroying the "industrial" paradigm.

19:45

similar discussion in old thread

19:45

the rocket, just as the modern ic, was designed by and for industrial system.

19:46

that is, to be produced en masse via the traditional processes for manufactured goods

19:46