#asciilifeform | 2021-10-01

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-30#1060285 << tbh this is an exceptional way to live.

01:00

Logged on 2021-09-30 18:35:37 dpb: there's also an alternative to solitude, which is if you must be around other people, be around people who are your delight

01:01

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signpost does not live by his favorite people, so travels to them.

01:03

incidentally my interest in erasure codes has much to do with being able to huck packets to loved ones should this stop being possible.

01:03

at any rate I find no pleading in asciilifeform's statement. it's fact. we're probably all doomed.

01:04

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signpost recalls a hilarious episode where he saw a woman frantically buying vegetable seeds at home depot at the beginning of covid.

01:04

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asciilifeform gotta get the uwb-hf derivations to signpost before folds.

01:04

Logged on 2020-04-27 23:24:36 asciilifeform: roughly speaking, 'uwb' over 0-30Mhz .

01:05

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signpost would greatfully read anything on subj

01:06

should elaborate on doomed. why be sad? did you think you were going to get out of here alive?

01:06

this is the most liberating fact if fully absorbed.

01:06

one's ephemerality may be spent any way he chooses.

~ 21 minutes ~

01:28

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-30#1060310 << canonical text. rather dry tho, and inaccessible to english folx, and there is no equiv. in eng.; asciilifeform's notion was to translate key bits and publish w/ demo system.

01:28

Logged on 2021-09-30 21:05:16 signpost: would greatfully read anything on subj

01:28

(trilema) 2018-07-22 asciilifeform: oh almost forgot, for thread-completeness : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-22#1837154 << >> http://www.loper-os.org/pub/astanin_kostylev.djvu << for the serious aficionado.

~ 3 hours 26 minutes ~

04:55

scoopbot

New post on A Syndication of Verisimilitudes: Determinism can be Inefficient

~ 3 hours 40 minutes ~

08:36

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-30#1060281 << it follows from this statement, which I agree with, that the lives of

08:36

Logged on 2021-09-30 18:31:15 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: imho life ends when you can no longer think, not when no longer take a shit.

08:37

a few million Americans over the last three decades were ended during their childhood as a result of coercive drugging.

08:48

I still haven't fully recovered from the cocktail of drugs which I was forced to consume during my early teenhood.

08:50

as consequence, my ability in math reached plateau at age of 13. I have learned nothing new since.

08:54

I was eligible for early entry into college before that, but I had parents who were anti-Nerd, as were most teachers.

09:02

I have had some difficulty following asciilifeform's FFA tutorials, owing to my general impairment in math, but he has a talent

09:02

for being able to explain concepts in ways which make sense for gifted ten year-olds like myself.

09:05

had this discussion with mats ~year ago. he responded with some variant of: misfits are resented in all societies, not just America.

09:09

common response. true, but tautological. it does not follow from that statement that "misfits" should be determined based on

09:11

possession of "nonverbal comm. skills." that is a post-WW2 Americanism. in any case, I wish you all luck in escaping the mouth of the Lion.

09:17

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-30#1060244 << you are more fiscally responsible than the best of them. I am sure 95%

09:17

Logged on 2021-09-30 15:44:43 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-30#1060229 << fwiw asciilifeform expects to starve. and not 'in lifetime sometime' but in next coupla yrs.

09:18

of the popl. will starve before you, at very least; even in worst case, please consider working for Chinese employer. China needs ppl. like you.

~ 2 hours 36 minutes ~

11:55

PeterL

most people can live on mcPhood and netflix, it will take them a long time to starve

~ 52 minutes ~

12:47

lulz https://twitter.com/rleshner/status/1443730726751506432

12:48

https://cointelegraph.com/news/compound-supply-bug-mistakenly-rewarded-users-with-70m-in-tokens

12:50

shinohai

lol punkman .... best part to me was one of the developers telling folks on twitter to send funds back or get reported to irs!

~ 1 hours 34 minutes ~

14:24

PeterL has it

14:26

gregory5: i dunthink i've ever heard of the chinese hiring white man to do anything, even to sweep street. they have more than enuff of their own, from sweepers to atomicists, for any conceivable need.

14:32

they do hire white people, mostly for decoration though

14:33

punkman: e.g. harvard stuffed shirts? prolly, in small qtys

14:36

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060329 << i dun recall where you live, gregory5 , but will note that what i suspect you think of as 'responsibility' in the reich is punished heavily.

14:36

Logged on 2021-10-01 05:17:27 gregory5: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-30#1060244 << you are more fiscally responsible than the best of them. I am sure 95%

14:36

gregory5: ... with e.g. confiscatory taxation, destruction of savings with inflation and unemployment, and many other ways.

14:36

Logged on 2021-09-20 20:59:30 asciilifeform: ( e.g. asciilifeform doesn't get to write off anything substantial. taxed at effectively ~50%. because working, rather than dividend-drawing , doesn't borrow money, doesn't speculate )

14:41

I think term of art is "white monkey job" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi5JEZo2KT0

14:42

basically, actor

~ 54 minutes ~

15:36

acting is a legit profession. simply, not mine

15:39

asciilifeform must live a certain way.

15:41

thimbronion: hm?

15:45

asciilifeform: it's a meme. For ex: https://twitter.com/dagosupremacy/status/1443758031490146309. Only way I can explain your predicament to myself.

15:45

thimbronion: 404

15:46

or hm stray '.' nm

15:46

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asciilifeform not sure he gets the meaning of the lolcat but does not insist

15:47

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asciilifeform not often in fat restaurants, as seems to be the picture, nor has ever been to 'posh tropics' as seems to be the other implication.

15:48

Nothing to do with those in particular. Here's more: https://twitter.com/search?q=I%20must%20live%20a%20certain%20way&src=typed_query

15:50

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060337 << might be worth mentioning, Slavs are their own category in China. not white per se.

15:50

Logged on 2021-10-01 10:26:44 asciilifeform: gregory5: i dunthink i've ever heard of the chinese hiring white man to do anything, even to sweep street. they have more than enuff of their own, from sweepers to atomicists, for any conceivable need.

15:50

ftr asciilifeform's only (by local standards) 'luxury' is simply a 90 m^2 non-communal box.

15:51

gregory5: correct, they go to sweep street, fix motors, etc, the pay beats east ru's

15:51

asciilifeform: also has the luxury of not dealing in filthy webdev.

15:52

thimbronion: asciilifeform deals in far worse things than www dev

15:52

gregory5: if you know any chinese companies looking for a token white guy lmk.

15:53

asciilifeform: the fact that Vitalik Buterin was ethnic Russian, not white per se, was heavily emphasized by the tech. news.

15:53

gregory5: not being fan of subj, cannot comment

15:55

can I convince you to at least visit Harbin sometime?

15:56

gregory5: what did asciilifeform lose in harbin ?

15:59

the northeast of China might be a major destination down the road for Sino Slavic partnership.

16:00

gregory5: you prolly knew this , but asciilifeform doesn't hava a ru passport

16:13

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-04-08#1448889 << was always curious what asciilifeform means by "honest-work"

16:13

(trilema) 2016-04-08 asciilifeform: a) there is ~0 demand for the things i know how to do among honest-work folks

16:14

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signpost chuckles

16:14

gregory5: ccp isn't looking so healthy these days either.

16:16

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-29#1060181 << as I reflect on this, I suspect a double-bind. fundamental cost on the one end, complexity limit on the other.

16:16

Logged on 2021-09-29 20:34:06 asciilifeform: i'ma say it straight -- the 1950s usa which so many folx masturbate to -- was a communist country. exactly like sovok, britain, france. similar 'great inca' structure already in all of them, and for ~fundamental~ civilizational-stage reasons imho.

16:18

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060320 << http://trinque.org/2019/09/02/quetiapine/

16:18

Logged on 2021-10-01 04:37:13 gregory5: a few million Americans over the last three decades were ended during their childhood as a result of coercive drugging.

16:18

in other words, if you don't get up, that's your fault, not theirs.

16:19

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060321 << I recognize the struggle in this, but succumbing to it is learned helplessness.

16:19

Logged on 2021-10-01 04:48:07 gregory5: I still haven't fully recovered from the cocktail of drugs which I was forced to consume during my early teenhood.

16:19

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060323 << "nerd" is an american construction used to keep the intelligent from being dangerous. seems the chinese learned it also, much earlier.

16:19

Logged on 2021-10-01 04:54:31 gregory5: I was eligible for early entry into college before that, but I had parents who were anti-Nerd, as were most teachers.

16:21

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060326 << misfitness is orthogonal to intelligence. has much to do with inept parenting.

16:21

Logged on 2021-10-01 05:05:10 gregory5: had this discussion with mats ~year ago. he responded with some variant of: misfits are resented in all societies, not just America.

16:22

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signpost finds the idea that the intelligent should be by nature fearful loathsome. it's what a grunt does to you to make sure you're mentally hobbled before you're grown.

16:23

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060331 << fucking lol. china will fall first, more centralized.

16:23

Logged on 2021-10-01 05:18:31 gregory5: of the popl. will starve before you, at very least; even in worst case, please consider working for Chinese employer. China needs ppl. like you.

16:23

in fact, china's fall will probably drag the world into ww3 as it scrambles for resources and Lebensraum.

16:24

theres a whole train of these people in r/sino, unhappy chinese expats who wanna go home to a place they dont know at all

16:24

yeah, and I want to go home to goldwater america in my mind.

16:30

china's population is falling fast, i'd bet on india as the next powderkeg

16:31

i.e. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3150699/chinas-population-could-halve-within-next-45-years-new-study

16:31

and https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/by-2030-world-will-have-8-6-billion-people-1-5-billion-of-them-in-india/articleshow/59277566.cms

16:33

wouldn't assume they don't panic on the way down, but yeah, perhaps india and pakistan get frisky?

16:34

suppose china and the middle east continue to get friendly. how does that affect india?

16:34

at any rate my comment to gregory5 is that the commies always look good from the outside.

16:34

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-12-24#1004333 << modi has successfully turned the rage inwards, with raping of muslims etc, but the day might come soon when this rage is directed outwards

16:34

Logged on 2019-12-24 13:19:28 mats: if i had to guess what their greatest challenge will be in 20y, it wouldnt be collision with the west but their age demographics problem with old folks, and india’s comparatively much younger, poorer, and angrier population

16:34

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060374 << I've also had big sleep improvement with vitamin d + magnesium. having to wake to alarm clock is also a big problem, trying to rigidly schedule your sleep makes every late night worse.

16:34

Logged on 2021-10-01 12:18:08 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060320 << http://trinque.org/2019/09/02/quetiapine/

16:35

yup, I use timed red-shifted lights

16:35

the best outcome for india is probably to come to a compact with cn/pk, so they can drive east, but there'll always be a gun pointed at the back of their head

16:35

and my diet and nutrient intake is better than ever. no remaining effects of any "medicine"

16:35

signpost: asciilifeform has a 26hr circadian cycle. so none of the 'hacks' do jackshit

16:36

either way, they have hundreds of millions of men without money, food, water, but! smartphones to watch gangrape pron of white women and how good everyone else in the world has it

16:37

india quietly pacified kashmir over covid, as a possible start to an era of indian expansionism

16:38

yeah, I might've had Lebensraum needs on the wrong side of the border there.

16:39

mats: makes me curious how much is caused by the skew toward boys in china

16:39

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signpost jokes with his wife that he's just a jar of cum with legs; she's a whole human factory.

16:39

way costlier to lose those

16:40

(and that does still sound like war. plenty of expendable men in china, even if total population is headed down)

16:41

errybody's expendable

16:42

sure, but loss of women impacts population growth more.

16:42

running an expeditionary military on single children is pretty risky

16:44

man and woman marriage holds up ~10 people: dads, mas, grandparents, maybe a couple kids

16:44

signpost: already ~500x moar walkers than anyone has a use for

16:45

http://trinque.org/2019/09/02/quetiapine/ << unless you insist on an Objectivist interp. of events, I think you were pretty clearly the

16:45

victim of a conspiracy, but I am glad to see that you managed to escape.

16:46

what does this do for me, if I decide that "I" contains victimhood?

16:52

signpost: under Victorian British social worldview (which is what American Conservatism is based on) probably very little,

16:54

mighty chinese of you to address me in the plural like that.

16:54

but under Dualist worldview, you could pray to God to avenge you against the evil kingdom, and fight for the good kingdom.

16:55

the more amusing thing is I'm spouting appropriated asian philosophy.

16:56

and apparently you, european. this is multicultural as all hell.

16:56

china has a weird fixation on internalising western philosophy

16:57

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060422 << Europe has had both unitary and Dualistic philosophical schools.

16:57

Logged on 2021-10-01 12:56:01 signpost: and apparently you, european. this is multicultural as all hell.

16:57

when moderns praise "Western civilization" as a single unit (incl. BAP and Peterson) they usually mean the unitary strain of Western thought.

16:58

yup, I'm a big fan of Heidegger.

16:58

Thomas Carlyle for instance is part of the unitary school.

16:58

Logged on 2021-05-01 16:12:09 gregorynyssa: I noticed a distrubing trend that when people say they value "Western traditional thought" without qualification, they basically just mean that they are huge fans of Thomas Carlyle.

17:02

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060387 << last time that I checked, there were very few Chinese citizens on /r/sino.

17:02

Logged on 2021-10-01 12:24:15 mats: theres a whole train of these people in r/sino, unhappy chinese expats who wanna go home to a place they dont know at all

17:03

unless by "expat" you mean anyone who is of Chinese descent.

17:03

perhaps explain what you mean by the macro carlyle here?

17:04

because I spent much of my time eating nietzsche and those in his wake.

17:04

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060384 << TBH I think the entire world is in danger.

17:04

Logged on 2021-10-01 12:23:03 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060331 << fucking lol. china will fall first, more centralized.

17:04

agreed.

17:05

yeah yeah, sino diaspora

17:05

the question of Toqueville-style decentralization vs. "bureaucracy" is not the only axis of fitness.

17:06

though I agree that "bureaucracy" and centralization have their weaknesses.

17:07

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signpost issues macroexpand again.

17:08

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060433 << Burke, Carlyle (and more recently, Dr Jordan Peterson) represent an

17:08

Logged on 2021-10-01 13:03:30 signpost: perhaps explain what you mean by the macro carlyle here?

17:09

intellectual tradition which views history as a battle between order and disorder.

17:09

this isn't terribly interesting to me, nor representative of the contents of my skull.

17:11

now I'll macroexpand Heidegger and Nietzsche; they were both working to classify the mental dysfunction of modern men, and to construct a philosopy which from first principles rebuilt the sanity of man.

17:12

heidegger in particular I think will be best understood by whomever (in 500yrs) creates real AI.

17:13

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060446 << I never quite understood the problem which they are trying to solve.

17:13

Logged on 2021-10-01 13:11:53 signpost: now I'll macroexpand Heidegger and Nietzsche; they were both working to classify the mental dysfunction of modern men, and to construct a philosopy which from first principles rebuilt the sanity of man.

17:13

would you mind giving a statement of what the problem is in the first place?

17:14

"man-judged-before-god operating system broke irreperably. what do we do now?"

17:14

I recall that you alluded to this earlier, when you mentioned the Bicameral Mind theory, and how you think it applies to the 19th century.

17:16

can't remember what about the 19th century, but bicameral mind is a halfway-decent grunt towards a taxonomy of mind. jung's project also. nietzsche's (though possibly incidental to the fact that mental content stands in starker relief when going mad)

17:16

heidegger's.

17:16

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060451 << but how is it broken? I am a believer myself. about half of America are believers (though not of my particular religion/denomination).

17:16

Logged on 2021-10-01 13:14:14 signpost: "man-judged-before-god operating system broke irreperably. what do we do now?"

17:17

where early heidegger is an investigation into mind as a static universal, late heidegger acknowledges that it's a "strange loop" into which w/e may be declared.

17:18

gregory5: half of america are believers in a personal narcissist god that whispers authorization for whichever infantile urge strikes them at the moment.

17:19

this is not the same god as *authored* by Aquinas, Augustine, so on.

17:20

signpost: how can you be sure that ~all denominations are corrupt, and not merely those with direct ties to Christian Revivalism?

17:21

much of American Christianity is indeed tainted by Revivalism. this much is admitted by many religious historians.

17:22

you're glossing over my "authored". it's a core point.

17:23

so what do you mean by authored?

17:24

I would encourage you to read What is Called Thinking by Hedegger, pulled from notes of his lectures.

17:24

are you suggesting that 20th and 21st century people view the very notion of "authorship" differently?

17:25

if so, I believe that too, in fact. this is one of the underpinnings of my own cosmology.

17:25

half the book deals with his repeated translation of a single sentence from Parmenides. Hedegger calls this exact sentence the bootstrap of modern consciousness.

17:25

*that it was authored and known* created it.

17:25

sure, I will have a look.

17:26

are you fluent in German, by any chance?

17:26

I'm sadly not.

17:27

I should correct that someday.

17:27

I was wondering, in case you had a recommended translation.

17:28

I read Nietzsche through Kaufmann, but he is not well regarded by some Nietzscheans.

17:28

I think you will find the "ancient wrong turn" Hedegger describes familiar as a Christian.

17:29

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060466 << go on?

17:29

Logged on 2021-10-01 13:25:20 gregory5: if so, I believe that too, in fact. this is one of the underpinnings of my own cosmology.

17:31

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060476 << one of the greatest cultural shifts during the 20th century was the break-down of what I call Authorialism.

17:31

Logged on 2021-10-01 13:29:45 signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060466 << go on?

17:33

what I mean by Authorialism is: a person's authority to determine what his own thoughts and feelings are.

17:34

instead, we transitioned into a society which heavily emphasizes the "reading" of others,

17:35

and which regards with cynicism and skepticism the ability of people to know, and to accurately describe their own thoughts and feelings.

17:36

this has had many consequences, incl. the break-down of a person's right to control the interpretation of his own statements.

17:38

this has led to the habit of accusing others of Racism and Sexism over strained interpretations of their reamrks,

17:38

I'd rather say that folks shifted from having mostly shared authorities to yes, many different ones, and that wokeness and shitlordism indicate the urge to return to shared authority.

17:38

and not letting them explain themselves; treating Racism and Sexism is diseases which must be diagnosed rather than confessional positions.

17:38

I don't see where in history there was ever someone who was the primary author of his own mind.

17:39

(wokeness and shitlordism in america of course.)

17:39

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060487 << belief in mind/body separation used to be stronger. Authorialism naturally follows from such.

17:39

Logged on 2021-10-01 13:38:44 signpost: I don't see where in history there was ever someone who was the primary author of his own mind.

17:40

yes, and even if you believe in such a soul. who authored its contents, you or god?

17:41

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060491 << the assertion behind Authorialism is that you cannot know the contents of others' minds/souls unless they tell you.

17:41

Logged on 2021-10-01 13:40:54 signpost: yes, and even if you believe in such a soul. who authored its contents, you or god?

17:42

or... "I want to be an objectivist individualist just like Rand authored"

17:42

it is not that the mind/soul created itself, or that God cannot see through any mind/soul.

17:42

this doesn't make you chuckle?

17:42

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060494 << Rand denied mind/body separation though. this was evident in her views on sexual ethics.

17:42

Logged on 2021-10-01 13:42:06 signpost: or... "I want to be an objectivist individualist just like Rand authored"

17:42

not being able to know is not tantamount to their having ex nihilo created all the content

17:42

not the point.

17:43

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060499 << I very much agree.

17:43

Logged on 2021-10-01 13:42:48 signpost: not being able to know is not tantamount to their having ex nihilo created all the content

17:44

we've reach the core of the dysfunction as I see it. this concept of separateness has destroyed us.

17:44

however we wrangle with definitions, the point is that I don't think people before the 20th century believed in nonverbal communication.

17:45

during the 20th century, you can find a massive increase in sensitivity/attention toward nonverbal communication, facial expressions, etc.

17:46

you really think "he looked at me wrong" is 20th century invention?

17:47

heck, the "evil eye" is ancient

17:47

but I think I grok why gregory5 thought to bring this up.

17:47

what's more primal than nonverbal communication

17:47

for commoners, this happened in mid-to-late 20th century. among elites, it happened 15-30 years earlier.

17:48

lemme see if this is a fair restating. "humanity has stopped submitting to the word, and is doomed by it"

17:48

not being trite here. I can expand every part of that sentence.

17:48

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060507 << evil eye doesn't count IMO, because it was based on the scientifically incorrect understanding that the eye can shoot out beams of light. it isn't a facial expression.

17:48

Logged on 2021-10-01 13:47:02 signpost: heck, the "evil eye" is ancient

17:49

sounds like post hoc rationalization of THAT FACE IS SPOOKY

17:49

in ancient times, many people thought that the eye worked by shooting out beams of light which then reflected off objects.

17:49

anyway. religion is submission to a particular language-denoted operating system, right?

17:49

whether the productions in that system relate to reality in any way, or don't.

17:50

sure, but we're meandering.

17:50

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060511 << this sounds quite close to my view, yes.

17:50

Logged on 2021-10-01 13:48:05 signpost: lemme see if this is a fair restating. "humanity has stopped submitting to the word, and is doomed by it"

17:50

we're not even far apart on that. I say men write these operating systems, *and they are essential*

17:51

in some of my writings, I even use the word "submission," as you have above.

17:51

Duty and death, and maybe a cigar inbetween https://twitter.com/FourFourths/status/1443305597709946880

17:52

http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-10-01#1060516 << if anyone here wants to look into this further, it is called the "extromission theory of vision." fascinating stuff.

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Logged on 2021-10-01 13:49:36 gregory5: in ancient times, many people thought that the eye worked by shooting out beams of light which then reflected off objects.

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or "emission theory of vision"

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punkman: bahahaha. lawn chairs come in handy. got 'em in the truck.

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gregory5: yep I'm familiar.

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