Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2021-09-29 | 2021-10-01 → ↓
00:01 asciilifeform mats: printing press go brrrrrrr!
00:01 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-13 14:38:51 asciilifeform: theft by lizards of the very little remaining that they have not yet stolen from people.
00:01 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-13 14:39:30 asciilifeform: it's a classic arson+theft. burn down economy, loot what little savings anyone had.
00:01 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-13 15:03:19 asciilifeform: never seems to happen. for the imho obv. reason that 'soft theft' via inflation is much cheaper (and less risks war) than 'hard theft' via open force
00:01 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-13 15:03:19 asciilifeform: never seems to happen. for the imho obv. reason that 'soft theft' via inflation is much cheaper (and less risks war) than 'hard theft' via open force
00:01 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-29#1060078 << I'd happily live in an America with such wonders.
00:01 dulapbot Logged on 2021-09-29 11:49:05 asciilifeform: signpost: bbn co. was 1 of the great american wonders of the world, right up there w/ bell labs & parc. and such crater nao.
00:02 asciilifeform signpost: metoo!
00:03 signpost at the moment not super impressed that these let the place fall to communism.
00:03 signpost I thought that was most of the point, to not.
00:03 asciilifeform signpost: the funnier thing is that bell labs & friends were ~themselves~ products of, well, what else to call it, communism
00:04 asciilifeform i.e. megamonopoly in the role of stalinist state
00:04 signpost perhaps that essential contradiction produces much of the problem.
00:04 asciilifeform indeed does
00:05 thimbronion asciilifeform: probably out of my depth here but weren't they monopolies that were broken up by proto-commies?
00:06 asciilifeform thimbronion: created by 1 gen, broken by anuther
00:06 asciilifeform the orig at&t could not have existed in anyffin like its actual form without the megastate granting concessions & rights-of-way
00:08 asciilifeform the '82 divestiture was a lulzy move similarly to later, in su, gorby's 'cooperatives' -- lizards were under the notion that it'd result in cheaper upkeep of infrastructure.
00:09 asciilifeform ( from short time pov -- did; bell labs spun off & 'properly managed' into oblivion as lucent co.; and the current game plan is to sell the 100$B of legacy copper to scavengers and convert to yachts )
00:12 asciilifeform for ref./comparison : the traditional pov re demise of at&t.
00:14 asciilifeform ftr asciilifeform is partial to alex rosov's cosmography, which offers a hypothesis explaining the demise not only of bell labs but of parc etc.
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00:14 dulapbot Logged on 2021-03-02 12:22:32 asciilifeform: ru writer alex rosov takes the thesis further -- he gives (fairly solid) argument that a decision was made (by bluebloods of 'civilized' world) in 1968 to halt technical progress. ( and, consequently, to nail sovok, because otherwise it'll eat'em, not having 'gotten the memo' that r&d must stop )
00:15 asciilifeform lizards corrected their 'mistake'.
00:15 dulapbot Logged on 2021-03-02 12:23:39 asciilifeform: semiconductor 'escaped' (again per this cosmography) because a) underestimated and poorly understood by the 'deciders' b) required minimal insight, was pushable 'forward' by sheer 'chinese' plodding, as still (to an extent) happening
00:20 asciilifeform it also explains why reich had to organize the (2nd!) destruction of japan, for instance.
00:20 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-11 16:13:19 asciilifeform: mats: do you recall when usa 'decided' to torpedo its industrial base? (80s) and jp didnt feel like following along off the cliff ? what did usg do
00:20 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-11 16:19:05 asciilifeform: gregory4: it was a hamstringing, jp never recovered, '5th gen computing' project vanished like a dream, 'sarariman for life' and the 'trad-family' it enabled -- mostly also vanish, and so forth
00:20 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-11 17:53:11 asciilifeform: very much sees modern jp as a country destroyed -- by the lizards -- with weapon of financialization. where suddenly somehow doesn't matter that your craftsmen polish $object for 5years and 'put soul' in it, all that matters is derivatives-fuckwaddery and pyramids of funny moneys
00:28 asciilifeform signpost: the possibility of 'non-communism' at the 20th c. tech level is imho an illusion -- a beautiful dream, if you like.
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00:28 dulapbot (alethepedia) 2020-12-15 asciilifeform: thimbronion: capitalism (of the kind popularly wanked to) died in ww2. after it, various forms of socialisms for erryone, whether like or not, and of the nazi flavour. simply because (as summarized by orwell) 'who cannot manufacture airplanes in large numbers, it does not matter what his other politics' or how it went.
00:29 asciilifeform it was possible at earlier tech levels, and may be, in principle, possible at moar advanced ones. but not at the 'planes in large numbers == sovereigty' one
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00:30 asciilifeform ... or the si fab one, for that matter.
00:30 dulapbot (trilema) 2015-07-26 asciilifeform: the coveted 'garden of eden' situation where ~there isn't a microshit~, when there is not a usg department-of-computing that has its tentacles in every orifice - won't be coming back until some quasi-mythical breakthrough decentralizes chip fabbing
00:30 dulapbot (trilema) 2018-10-25 asciilifeform: imho the classical fab is an overwhelmingly incatronic tech, it centralizes unhealthily.
00:30 dulapbot (trilema) 2019-04-17 asciilifeform: it's the most massively centralized industry that exists. there are actually moar independent satellite launchers than e.g. <= 70nm fabs.
00:31 asciilifeform *sovereignty
00:34 asciilifeform i'ma say it straight -- the 1950s usa which so many folx masturbate to -- was a communist country. exactly like sovok, britain, france. similar 'great inca' structure already in all of them, and for ~fundamental~ civilizational-stage reasons imho.
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00:34 asciilifeform nao, communist country with '2.5 room house in suburbs and mustang', 'protestant ethic', etc. but fundamentally, structurally -- same thing.
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00:35 asciilifeform just like a '747' and a 'mirage' are fundamentally same thing, even if differently shaped and built by different folx for different uses etc.
00:36 asciilifeform kingdom where the crown is the principal economic actor, dwarfing all others -- is an inca empire. aka communist.
~ 54 minutes ~
01:31 asciilifeform in other noose,
01:32 * asciilifeform updated pest 0xFD draft, in particular s. 1.2.7 and 1.2.8.
~ 1 hours 42 minutes ~
03:14 vex 1.2.8 is the squid ink pest-like thing new?
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03:21 vex lulz re mr didn't ingest. now if alf isn't the biggest troll in his own castle, I'll sober up
03:34 vex one even wonders which mistakes he puts in textbooks to catch something thinking
03:39 vex I suspect they're usually happy mistakes, or however it goes in cn gregor
~ 1 hours 42 minutes ~
05:22 vex I'm reminded of the jp concept of stolen lessons. Ostenibly the papprentice creeps into the master's library while he's sleeping. only to find the book isn't there
05:30 vex I've prolly got it wrong again, just checking if gregor can splain it
05:41 vex you've prolly got the top guy for groking humanlang there alf
~ 15 minutes ~
05:57 vex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIb6AZdTr-A
06:09 * vex feels an audit comin g on. lemme have a look
06:13 vex hanbot & bimbos' loss is so unfathomable. i'm stiil reeling
06:18 vex i didn't see him die, so I won't suggest any butt secks
06:25 vex that said. you're welcome to cry
~ 17 minutes ~
06:43 punkman you ever go fishing vex?
06:43 punkman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsJU-HQR8dE
06:45 vex I get blufin sometiema
06:45 vex drag it to tokyo. .25 bc
06:46 vex I frefer to eat it raw
06:47 vex How';s the shaking going?
06:48 vex people gte the snapper off the reef, i liek sailing about trolling for a tuna
06:49 vex reel starts reeling. wakes erryone on board
06:51 vex squealing at th eI might catch a black marlin
06:53 vex I keep my boat specced
06:57 vex any tsunami. i'm 2 mninutes off
07:00 vex motorbike stays home, i'm fucking off coastal
07:00 vex fuck the hills
07:01 vex Ill punch it thru the surf
07:02 vex wtaerworld ftw
07:07 vex see me in london. nice to see you back punkman
~ 7 hours 8 minutes ~
14:16 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-29#1060173 << yep, the "future was here, just unevenly spread" when industry was integrated for global war. no argument to the contrary here.
14:16 dulapbot Logged on 2021-09-29 20:28:09 asciilifeform: signpost: the possibility of 'non-communism' at the 20th c. tech level is imho an illusion -- a beautiful dream, if you like.
14:17 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-29#1060175 << probably 300 years of cat-and-mouse from here between p2p cryptoculture and the industrial war machine, yes
14:17 dulapbot Logged on 2021-09-29 20:29:29 asciilifeform: it was possible at earlier tech levels, and may be, in principle, possible at moar advanced ones. but not at the 'planes in large numbers == sovereigty' one
14:19 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-29#1060182 << spreading is taking care of the difference.
14:19 dulapbot Logged on 2021-09-29 20:34:56 asciilifeform: nao, communist country with '2.5 room house in suburbs and mustang', 'protestant ethic', etc. but fundamentally, structurally -- same thing.
14:20 * signpost wagers politics doesn't change much until one can cheaply escape planet 3, and I'm not holding my breath.
14:23 signpost asciilifeform: https://loper-os.org/http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-29#1060184pub/pest/pest_draft.html#128-nothing-to-the-snoop << one of my own napkin scribblings contains this, but stations all blast a fixed stream of noise to one another continuously
14:23 dulapbot Logged on 2021-09-29 20:36:59 asciilifeform: kingdom where the crown is the principal economic actor, dwarfing all others -- is an inca empire. aka communist.
14:24 signpost intent was to make sending nothing, sending A->B, and sending A->B->C indistinguishable.
14:26 signpost a thought occurs, that if one wanted to make the graph of connections unintelligible, these could be scheduled. i.e. my station blasts asciilifeform's on a regular schedule whether-or-not it has anything important to say.
14:26 signpost if it has, packets get on the train; otherwise train runs empty
14:27 signpost obfuscation of the social graph was one of the things high on my list, but it might be a next-layer-above-pest thing.
14:29 signpost applicable also to radio.
14:29 * signpost fully expects to lose free access to internet within his lifetime.
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14:40 PeterL these aspects (whether and when to send junk/ignore packets) are left to the operator and do not need to be in the specification
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14:48 signpost PeterL: it's much more interesting when you put how you arrived at a conclusion in the logs.
14:49 signpost (ftr I agree, and said exactly that with "next-layer-above", i.e. a proggy which sits atop pest)
14:52 PeterL you could send garbage to random IP addresses each second, or you could sit silently most of the time, but this does not affect how other people handle your packets
14:53 signpost certainly where it's unclear what the optimal defensive posture is, oughta give degrees of freedom to the operator.
~ 24 minutes ~
15:18 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-30#1060230 << this is asciilifeform's pov, which is why i did not specify in the logs how & when to generate chaff. prolly oughta be marked moar clearly to this effect tho.
15:18 dulapbot Logged on 2021-09-30 10:40:06 PeterL: these aspects (whether and when to send junk/ignore packets) are left to the operator and do not need to be in the specification
15:18 asciilifeform *in the logs or in the doc
15:19 asciilifeform it depends heavily on the bw of your station, that of your peers (folx on gsm 'pay-per-byte' may wish you wouldn't send chaff and certainly won't wish to send any themselves, i expect) etc
15:20 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-29#1060187 << nope, was in original 0xFF draft even
15:20 dulapbot Logged on 2021-09-29 23:14:25 vex: 1.2.8 is the squid ink pest-like thing new?
15:33 signpost is it just me or is vex getting more intelligible as time goes on?
15:42 asciilifeform signpost: he did say sumthing re: drinking less iirc
15:43 signpost wd
~ 4 hours ~
19:44 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-30#1060229 << fwiw asciilifeform expects to starve. and not 'in lifetime sometime' but in next coupla yrs.
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19:44 dulapbot Logged on 2021-09-30 10:29:29 signpost: fully expects to lose free access to internet within his lifetime.
19:45 asciilifeform cost of living in past ~yr, ~doubled.
19:49 * asciilifeform ftr worx 12-14h/d, 7d/w. for this gets, mostly, moar tax.
~ 25 minutes ~
20:15 PeterL Why not just say things will take twice as long, work half the hours?
20:17 asciilifeform PeterL: i suppose that'd work if asciilifeform were the 1 and only slave on the galley, lol
20:17 asciilifeform there's over9000 willing to take his place, tho
20:18 asciilifeform at any rate it aint a problem w/ the salt mines, but with costs.
20:19 asciilifeform 1 side of ledger goes up ~geometrically, the other ~not at all
20:19 PeterL we are going to have to start putting "inflation adjustment" into employment contracts?
20:20 asciilifeform PeterL: they traditionally already have laughable-usg-official-inflation adjustment
20:20 asciilifeform but it simply is to add insult to injury
20:20 asciilifeform ( think, what'd be the point of organizing inflation if you then had to actually adjust for it ! )
20:21 PeterL "official rate" is something around 2%, I am not sure how they torture the numbers to get that result
20:21 asciilifeform there's not 1 locale on planet3 where official-inflation is within order of magnitude of the ~actual~
20:21 asciilifeform PeterL: by exclusing housing, medical, etc
20:21 asciilifeform in usa, that is, can't comment re elsewhere,
20:21 asciilifeform but they exclude errything other than mcfood.
20:22 asciilifeform *excluding
20:30 * asciilifeform concretely wishes to apologize to folx expecting pest spec/implementation, phuctor resurrection, new trb, and any other wunderwaffen; nfi how many, if any, will be able to do in the time remaining.
20:34 * asciilifeform not interested to 'emo', but weighed the question and decided is Right Thing to tell folx in advance, rather than 'surprise' later
20:34 * asciilifeform bbl
~ 1 hours 29 minutes ~
22:03 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-29#1060091 No; with my correct usage, it should be a hint as to how I pronounce that acronym.
22:03 dulapbot Logged on 2021-09-29 14:39:23 PeterL: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-27#1059873 << shouldn't that (in your quirky usage) be "mine SHA" since it starts with a vowel sound?
22:07 verisimilitude I don't see any issue with socialism; I use my public library occasionally, and a fire department is another public good.
22:08 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-30#1060244 Well, that makes most of my problems seem insignificant.
22:08 dulapbot Logged on 2021-09-30 15:44:43 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-09-30#1060229 << fwiw asciilifeform expects to starve. and not 'in lifetime sometime' but in next coupla yrs.
22:09 verisimilitude While I don't live each day as if it could be my last, as I'd die with unfinished work, I'm trying to live a lifestyle where I wouldn't be extremely disappointed at dying without warning in ten years or so, not that I'd be able to feel disappointment anyway.
22:10 verisimilitude Still, it's an empty sentence, since I still don't actually expect it. Surely there'd be some way to avoid starving, asciilifeform.
22:19 asciilifeform verisimilitude: not afaik.
22:20 verisimilitude Sell the LispM if necessary.
22:20 asciilifeform verisimilitude: that's <1mo of run.
22:22 verisimilitude Move in with someone here, perhaps?
22:22 asciilifeform lol!
22:30 asciilifeform verisimilitude: i suspect you do not know what means 'starving'. the mind dies long before the body.
22:30 * asciilifeform has never valued anything more than solitude, and values it ftr far more than physical survival.
22:30 verisimilitude I read it literally, yes.
22:31 asciilifeform verisimilitude: imho life ends when you can no longer think, not when no longer take a shit.
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22:31 verisimilitude While I also value solitude, I don't yet have it to the extent I'd prefer.
22:32 verisimilitude Here's some recommended reading for maintaining solitude without money.
22:33 asciilifeform verisimilitude: not for me, ty
22:35 dpb there's also an alternative to solitude, which is if you must be around other people, be around people who are your delight
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22:36 asciilifeform dpb: i have exactly 1 of these already, ty
22:37 dpb i don't mean ship more people to where you are. I mean find people you like and ship yourself to them
22:38 asciilifeform i aint shipping self anywhere, dpb , and not interested in debating this.
22:38 asciilifeform not looking for advice, pity, etc, etc. simply wanted to give folx a heads-up.
22:38 asciilifeform y'know, sorta like giving notice at a salt mine.
22:38 verisimilitude It's only natural one's acquaintances would try to help, without offering money, asciilifeform.
22:40 asciilifeform verisimilitude: sure. i suspect asciilifeform poorly phrased the orig statement, provoking folx.
22:40 verisimilitude I'd like to meet asciilifeform in-person, at least once, so I suppose I must try to do so within the next year or so.
22:41 asciilifeform verisimilitude: i'd swear that i aint interesting at all in person, but you won't believe anyway
22:42 verisimilitude Alright; I'd like asciilifeform to meet me in-person, at least once.
22:42 asciilifeform maybe we'll meet in dpb's hell, verisimilitude
22:43 verisimilitude Wouldn't we both have far more interesting people to talk to, then?
22:45 verisimilitude After all, most interesting people would be in his hell, right?
22:48 verisimilitude This conversation has reminded me of those whom I despise, and who live long lives in this awful world.
~ 19 minutes ~
23:07 shinohai asciilifeform & verisimilitude ... be sure to stop by shinohai's booth in hell. I'll have ladies and lemonade.
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