Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-01-06 | 2015-01-08 → ↓
00:00 mircea_popescu lmao that sounded like a divisive question.
00:00 scoopbot New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/01/devianttwo-aka-robert-christophers-december-arrest-flies-under-the-radar/
00:00 mircea_popescu o.O
00:00 asciilifeform ergo he did not play ball.
00:01 asciilifeform at some point, somewhere.
00:01 asciilifeform so his chain was reeled in.
00:01 mircea_popescu i dunno, he was kinda dumb.
00:01 mircea_popescu woudn't surprise me if legit pedo.
00:01 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2014#749841
00:01 assbot Logged on 09-07-2014 00:04:59; asciilifeform: pierce << ideal example of the animal described on one of mircea_popescu's essays - he could be packed into prison for life, any time, based on what's in his file. so he does as instructed.
00:01 asciilifeform not even necessary that he not be 'legit paedo'
00:01 mircea_popescu aite.
00:02 asciilifeform but parsimonious hypothesis, imho, is that he was a chained, leashed paedo.
00:02 mircea_popescu seems to me on the contrary, it's just "random redneck doing various shit online like scams and pedophilia got nicked"
00:03 * asciilifeform laboured under an impression that 'actual paedo' is a rather uncommon thing, and hence their over-representation in sc4mz0rd0m is something in need of a logical explanation
00:04 mircea_popescu guy had a scamrecord a mile long, and always dumb shit like https://bitcointa.lk/threads/devianttwo-scammer.122455/
00:04 assbot Devianttwo SCAMMER | Bitcointa.lk ... ( http://bit.ly/13ZsFuM )
00:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform actual pedo irl yes. among the online scum that makes up a good chunk of the "bitcoin community" on places like forums etc, common enough.
00:04 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: earlier link concerned my working hypothesis as to why.
00:05 asciilifeform (it being, they get 'annointed' by handlers specifically for being thus malleable)
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00:05 mircea_popescu mebbe.
00:05 mircea_popescu doubt it tho, seeing how many they are and how ignominously they labour.
00:06 asciilifeform there is the added difficulty of everyone and anyone in usg-dom being 'a paedo' retroactively on the mere request of a preet.
00:06 asciilifeform вредители.
00:14 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: is it merely my puny brain, but i still don't grasp the 'signed-default is bad because preet can steal a key.' if preet gets a hold of my key, he may as well have put a bullet through my hide, stuffed the corpse, and proceeded to live on as it
00:14 asciilifeform signed gossipd or not.
00:14 mircea_popescu for my curiosity, people who run torrents : how many connections is common ? 10 ? 20 ? 40 ? 80 ? 160 ?
00:14 asciilifeform depends on torrent for what.
00:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform not because "preet can steal a key"
00:14 mircea_popescu i just meant, generally. i dun care for what, trying to see how this works in practice.
00:15 artifexd The torrents that I have run get 15-20 connections
00:15 asciilifeform just strikes me as a peculiar retreat from the whole 'let's bring an end to eternal september' thing
00:15 mircea_popescu it's exactly that tho!
00:15 mircea_popescu it actually puts an end to it.
00:15 asciilifeform how?
00:16 asciilifeform as it is, you're relying on the next hop node's operator to sign your words.
00:16 mircea_popescu suppose you're an average derp. what do you do ?
00:16 asciilifeform watch tv until die ?
00:16 mircea_popescu problem solved, september ended.
00:16 mircea_popescu i meant, what do you do to gossipd obvbiously.
00:16 asciilifeform hm
00:16 artifexd !s gossipd
00:16 assbot 0 results for 'gossipd' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gossipd
00:16 asciilifeform cajole a 'l33t3r' friend to give you an 'in', perhaps
00:16 mircea_popescu artifexd i ended up referring to your project as that.
00:17 mircea_popescu asciilifeform then you piss me off, i frown at your friend, you're out.
00:17 asciilifeform what did 'derps' do in 1991 ?
00:17 mircea_popescu you made it 3 days.
00:17 mircea_popescu now what ?
00:17 asciilifeform this is the ideal working of the scenario, yes
00:17 mircea_popescu ok, i frown at your friend, he demures, i delink him, you both are out.
00:17 mircea_popescu 2 derps, 3 days.
00:17 asciilifeform in practice, derp can often masquerade as simply an underenthusiastic or overworked 'actual person' for a spell.
00:18 mircea_popescu ok...
00:18 mircea_popescu in practice derps never manage this, if we're to go by history, but anyway.
00:18 asciilifeform just recalling various guests in #b-a, and how long it took each to work his (often her) way out of the alimentary canal
00:18 mircea_popescu who, specifically ?
00:18 * asciilifeform digs log
00:18 asciilifeform saffron
00:18 asciilifeform ?
00:19 mircea_popescu as far as i recall, for as far as my own chatlog is concerned, it took them exactly an hour longer than it took me to decide it's enough.
00:19 asciilifeform indian candy
00:19 mircea_popescu now, why shouldn't this be the situation to everyone ?
00:19 mircea_popescu i wouldn't mind seeing either of those.
00:19 asciilifeform merely examples of people who took weeks, rather than days
00:19 asciilifeform aha but walked off rather than killfiled
00:19 mircea_popescu was thinking more like xmj and his ilk.
00:19 asciilifeform aha right
00:19 asciilifeform better example
00:20 asciilifeform or, what if herr pankkake had made things more difficult by slowly doing... his thing, rather than swapping uniforms in one fell swoop
00:20 mircea_popescu i dun see how any of these are serious avenues to attack gossipd.
00:21 mircea_popescu literally, all it takes is a one line edit.
00:22 asciilifeform not so much 'attacks', but i for one was hoping to see this experiment as a beginning of the 'wot internet'
00:22 mircea_popescu so it is.
00:22 mircea_popescu imo, quite exactly.
00:22 asciilifeform where eventually derps will not be able to send a packet, period.
00:22 mircea_popescu but it's EXACTLY what it is!
00:22 asciilifeform not if individual quanta aren't signed
00:22 mircea_popescu they still need a friend to let them in.
00:23 asciilifeform in mircea_popescu's current scheme, they still are signed, i'll point out. but ad-hoc, by the next hop node
00:23 mircea_popescu you understand this ? nobody can police a list of 2bn ip addresses.
00:23 mircea_popescu anyone can police the 200 people he himself knows.
00:23 asciilifeform keys
00:23 asciilifeform not people. or ip addresses
00:23 mircea_popescu same thing.
00:23 mircea_popescu blacklisting doesn't work, and whitelisting should be done locally, and responsibly.
00:23 * asciilifeform does not disagree with this at all
00:24 mircea_popescu but you disagree with the implementation of ewxactly this ?
00:25 asciilifeform just not really grasping why we need the 'deniability' thing.
00:25 artifexd nor I
00:25 asciilifeform it seems to fly in the face of better-living-through-crypto
00:26 mircea_popescu it's odd because to me it seems exactly opposite.
00:26 mircea_popescu as in, why add clunk that actually harms and hinders, except to perpetuate what we generally agree is a harmful meme.
00:27 asciilifeform how is message-is-standalong-quantum-that-traverses-the-net-on-its-authors-signatures-merits added clunk ?
00:27 mircea_popescu excactly like that.
00:27 asciilifeform *standalone
00:27 artifexd Other than some extra bytes, how is it clunk? How does it harm or hinder?
00:27 mircea_popescu ok, let me try and make the whole story.
00:28 mircea_popescu currently : 1. friend to friend relations are entirely cryptographically secured. 2. unknown-to-unknown relations are not secured, and must proceed through a friend of either party to even happen.
00:28 mircea_popescu what you propose : 1. friend to friend and unknown to unknown relations are the same thing.
00:29 * asciilifeform is at a loss to see how this follows
00:29 artifexd Uh... no.
00:29 mircea_popescu this harms because : it gives unknowns a weight they should not have ; it removes the incentive for users to police at their local level ; it allows third parties to construct undeniable chatlogs that they had no business in.
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00:29 mircea_popescu anmd there's plenty more, but srsly... how much is needed.
00:30 asciilifeform incidentally, in no holy book is it written that a pubkey is readily pinnable on a particular creature walking this earth
00:30 mircea_popescu so ?
00:30 asciilifeform one can have 'anonymity' or 'deniability' or whatnot, as commonly imagined, at the same time as signed-everything
00:30 mircea_popescu and when you say no what do you mean no.
00:31 artifexd It doesn't give weight to unknowns. It gives continuity do unknowns should they desire it.
00:31 mircea_popescu asciilifeform not naturally.
00:31 mircea_popescu artifexd that is weight.
00:31 mircea_popescu the existence of unknowns should be entirely at the mercy of the knowns. no exceptions and no way out.
00:31 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: by what mechanism do 'unknowns' transmogrify into 'knowns' in your cosmography ?
00:31 mircea_popescu by whatever mechanism anyone chooses to use.
00:32 mircea_popescu THEY have no power,
00:32 mircea_popescu which is to say no obligatory mechanism exists.
00:32 artifexd No. It is continuity. I assign weight to what they say by my judgement. They assign continuity to what they say by signing it.
00:32 mircea_popescu artifexd it is not up to them. it is up to you.
00:32 mircea_popescu the moment you add them to your list, they have continuity.
00:32 mircea_popescu before that , they are ephemereal.
00:32 mircea_popescu not their option. yours.
00:32 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: at present time, an 'unknown' can generate a pgp key and carry on 'continuity' with it over whatever channel. we can't exactly prevent it
00:32 mircea_popescu because we don't work for the group here. we work for the individual.
00:32 asciilifeform nor have any good reason to try
00:33 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is a problem
00:33 artifexd it allows third parties to construct undeniable chatlogs << while true, I don't see the issue with it
00:33 mircea_popescu it is not an advantage.
00:33 asciilifeform and here is where i'm puzzled
00:33 asciilifeform how not advantage
00:33 mircea_popescu artifexd i do. it's the equivalent of making a weirdo reality where anyone who eavesdrops also has a recording device.
00:33 mircea_popescu none of their fuckinbg business. if they weren't invited to participate they can not RELY on the discussion.
00:33 mircea_popescu not to the detriment o the participants, in any case.
00:34 asciilifeform but, carrying on with the analogy, recording machines exist.
00:34 asciilifeform this is like a late-medieval knight wishing that cannon had not existed.
00:34 asciilifeform fact is, they do
00:34 mircea_popescu no. making it not exist.
00:34 mircea_popescu fact is, they only do if you wish to implement them. i do not.
00:34 mircea_popescu i don't see much has improved since the recording machine era. do you ?
00:35 asciilifeform if specifically aiming for anonymity, deniability, one ends up designing a widget akin to 'tor'
00:35 asciilifeform is this the intended shape ?
00:35 mircea_popescu this specifically aims for reconstructing sane chat, online.
00:35 asciilifeform i won't argue that a working 'tor' would not have its uses, but it is a very different animal from an 'adult' rebirth of internet circa 1989
00:35 mircea_popescu rather than some conveniently diddled , horrible implementation designed for the needs of the nsa
00:35 mircea_popescu (more generally, of the state)
00:36 * asciilifeform sees the genuine dilemma here. but sees it as a dilemma, not an open-and-shut case in favour of soft-anonymity
00:36 mircea_popescu do tell.
00:36 mircea_popescu i dun see any sort of dilemma.
00:37 asciilifeform mircea_popescu does not like the notion of nsa goon having a non-deniable tape of anything he catches. (i don't much, either...) asciilifeform does not like that it is generally customary to speak unsigned, and thereby nsa goon can put words into his mouth, and a certain number of people will believe them
00:38 mircea_popescu what the clueless "believe" can not ever be your concern.
00:38 mircea_popescu it is folly to even consider this point. focus on what is within your control.
00:38 asciilifeform it is when they lead me to the electric chair
00:38 mircea_popescu not even then.
00:38 mircea_popescu a screening of "a man for all seasons" is in order here.
00:39 asciilifeform until the magic dawn when the last idiot is strangled with the guts of the last scammer, there will be ones who believe the crap.
00:39 mircea_popescu quite exceptional walk through the very points involved.
00:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform that is neither here nor there.
00:39 mircea_popescu fundamentally your argument reduces to a deep seated "all peoples matter"
00:39 asciilifeform how ?
00:39 mircea_popescu to the tune of monty pytrhon's every sperm is sacred. no, they do not.
00:40 asciilifeform this inference is perplexing. i don't see how it follows.
00:40 mircea_popescu asciilifeform because whythe fuck do you care what some people you doin't know say on any topic ?
00:40 asciilifeform how does a bomzh, stinking in the street, who happens to have generated a pgp key, 'matter' ?
00:40 mircea_popescu well since you're concerned with what he might say or believe, it seems he does.
00:41 asciilifeform i'm concerned only in the particular corner case that he is actually my friend, who has been reduced to that condition by malefactors, but still remains in possession of his key.
00:41 mircea_popescu i do not care what "buts" and "ifs" you add.
00:41 mircea_popescu what remains is... you are concerned.
00:42 asciilifeform i'd say 'generic bum' and 'mircea stripped of his clothing and cast adrift in shanghai' are different scenario, no ?
00:42 mircea_popescu so how is this germane ?
00:42 mircea_popescu obviously, if we're connected, you know my key.
00:42 mircea_popescu at issue is your proposal to make this a reality for people you don't know.
00:43 asciilifeform nope. i fully understand that the latter is neither possible nor desirable
00:43 mircea_popescu so then what is the dilemma ?
00:43 asciilifeform 'who signs'
00:43 mircea_popescu you know my key, you directly verify my client is signing correctly, what is keft ?
00:43 mircea_popescu left*
00:44 asciilifeform in the scheme as presently described, your client is also signing (for the record of the hypothetical nsa goon, among others) a fairly arbitrary set of messages.
00:44 mircea_popescu it is not signing them, no.
00:44 mircea_popescu it is merely passing them along.
00:44 asciilifeform it signs the session whereby they are given right to travel the net
00:44 mircea_popescu "this is what i heard"
00:44 asciilifeform well, yes
00:45 mircea_popescu that, it does. but it makes no representation they are from me.
00:45 mircea_popescu in fact, it speciically says they are not.
00:45 asciilifeform and what is the intended mechanism for propagating a message which -does- make this claim ?
00:45 asciilifeform laborious external signature, as at present time ?
00:45 mircea_popescu for instance.
00:45 mircea_popescu or, if you prefer, elevating the source to the rank of a connect.
00:45 mircea_popescu thereby doing it all automatically.
00:46 asciilifeform please briefly describe 'rank of connect'
00:46 mircea_popescu the same relation as between you and me, in the scenario.
00:46 mircea_popescu you have his key in the initfile, and so on.
00:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the tidbit that escapes me is how you came upon the idea that default-signed would empower, rather than lower into pederasty, the 'anonymous derp'
00:48 mircea_popescu well that's the clou of the entire thing now innit.
00:48 asciilifeform aha
00:48 asciilifeform if i can grasp this, perhaps it will all make sense to my head.
00:48 mircea_popescu i think i explained it half a dozen different ways, to exhaustion, but am at a loss as to why what seems obvious is not communicating itself.
00:49 mircea_popescu let's go the other way. why do you think it would so lower them ?
00:49 asciilifeform did i misunderstand, or did you say earlier that it would be a good thing if the street bomzh could not use pgp ?
00:49 asciilifeform (and gain continuity thereby)
00:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00061581 = 2.2785 BTC [-]
00:49 mircea_popescu ok, let's work a different way. let us compare two scenarios.
00:50 mircea_popescu in both cases, we are discussing user Panopticon, who sees all and says nothing. now, in spec as is, it is true that user P will know... nothing. correct ? whereas in your proposed spec, he would know... everything. correct ?
00:50 mircea_popescu how is giving the bum EVERYTHING lowering him in any sense ?
00:50 asciilifeform everything ?
00:50 mircea_popescu and whence and wherefore should he have anything but nothing ?
00:50 mircea_popescu well yes. all the signed chats of everyone = everything. absolutely as 1 = 1.
00:50 asciilifeform if he truly knows 'everything', he can unmask the 'deniable' speakers likewise.
00:50 artifexd I guess I like the default sign because I see myself as Panopticon. I don't talk much. But I watch and listen. Default-sign helps me.
00:51 asciilifeform no need for signatures.
00:51 mircea_popescu artifexd you might discover it hurts you, much like the low level usg employee who thinks the fed helps him would soon discover his lot would be better without that bit.
00:51 mircea_popescu asciilifeform how ?
00:52 asciilifeform if he truly knows 'everything' he can elementarily determine which earthly carcass crapped out which words.
00:52 mircea_popescu not so.
00:52 mircea_popescu for all he knows, they're all in cahoots, sending him lulz.
00:52 mircea_popescu he can not determine this.
00:52 asciilifeform presumably some earthly not-quite-everything was meant, rather than a 'divine' Everything
00:52 mircea_popescu everything in the network duh.
00:53 asciilifeform then mircea_popescu is correct
00:53 asciilifeform hitler does know considerably more under the all-signed scenario than alternative.
00:53 mircea_popescu more importantly, hitler IS a lot more in that than he would be in this.
00:53 asciilifeform but if we actually want to go in that direction, the logical result is a gadget like 'tor', with bounces, mixes, etc.
00:53 asciilifeform rather than lukewarm step in that direction, no?
00:54 mircea_popescu this is paid for, somewhere, by someone. who is paying but me ? even if i can't show where it leeches me, it does. why should i ?
00:54 mircea_popescu there's nothing lukewarm about this.
00:54 mircea_popescu it is, unlike the tor etc bs, actually efficient.
00:55 asciilifeform just seems like an attempt to build a stove-refrigerator hybrid. yes, can be done, yes, in some sense these are complementary machines. but - challenge.
00:55 mircea_popescu nothing of the kind.
00:55 asciilifeform (combination of 'tor'-like apparatus with 'wot', in particular)
00:56 mircea_popescu the tor bs is an attempt to "fix" in implementation problems to whose existence it not merely contributes, but moore! whose existence it actually postulates.
00:56 mircea_popescu it is fundamentally broken and will never work exactly because it simply presumes the adversary wins.
00:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5070 @ 0.00062134 = 3.1502 BTC [+]
00:56 asciilifeform speaking of the 'platonic' tor, rather than the cthonian horror of the actual proggy
00:56 mircea_popescu wheras as proposed, gossipd makes the enemy outright impossible.
00:56 mircea_popescu not even deliberately, just, as a side effect.
00:56 mircea_popescu asciilifeform even the platonic.
00:56 mircea_popescu structure it and i'll show you how it assumes it.
00:57 asciilifeform well, 'platonic tor' is simply that a large number of people agree to 'play non-broken telephone' between me and a destination.
00:57 asciilifeform thereby obscuring the existence of the conversation, within certain limits.
00:57 mircea_popescu a destination you know nothing about.
00:58 asciilifeform a destination you may or may not know something about out-of-band
00:58 mircea_popescu so the fundamental statement is "the group is more important than the individual"
00:58 mircea_popescu and you wish to know why it is broken by design ?
00:58 mircea_popescu that's why.
00:58 mircea_popescu once that's in there, of course fucking nsa.
00:58 asciilifeform (e.g., i may know that it is a machine at ip p.q.r.s with rsa pubkey K)
00:58 asciilifeform well yes. nsa comes inevitably in because you are trusting three strangers whom you know nothing about, to form the circuit.
00:59 mircea_popescu derp.
00:59 mircea_popescu now apply the same analysis to gossipd.
00:59 asciilifeform gossipd proposes a scheme more akin to the traditional 'cell' organizations of revolutions, etc
01:00 asciilifeform (i dare suggest that a node be referred to as 'cell', for extra lulz)
01:00 mircea_popescu quite.
01:00 mircea_popescu historically, the closer a relation, the more direct.
01:00 asciilifeform aha
01:00 mircea_popescu this is not some sort of random contrivance of boredom.
01:00 asciilifeform it is the inevitable construction that stands.
01:00 mircea_popescu this is specifically because, historically, the individual is more important than the group
01:00 asciilifeform like bridge truss.
01:00 asciilifeform (triangles)
01:01 mircea_popescu which is how humanity managed to inch its way to this sad time when it's about to kill itself a thousand different ways
01:01 mircea_popescu all born the same stupid place.
01:02 asciilifeform which, in this context, place ?
01:02 mircea_popescu "group is more important than individual"
01:02 mircea_popescu a mental place.
01:02 asciilifeform ah that.
01:02 mircea_popescu myeah
01:03 mircea_popescu i must say, incidentally, i thoroughly enjoyed this discussion.
01:03 mircea_popescu heck, haven't felt so alive in weeks.
01:03 asciilifeform srsly ?
01:03 mircea_popescu yes.
01:03 * asciilifeform pictured mircea_popescu breaking keyboards, etc
01:03 artifexd "How many times do I have to explain this shit!"
01:03 mircea_popescu so did the pets peeking in online. but no.
01:04 artifexd This pretty much prevents one-way relationships, right?
01:05 artifexd If you and I are online, unless we are both in each other's list, we will never direct-connect.
01:05 mircea_popescu this part is finnicky. it shouldn't, ideally, but i don't see how it could be done.
01:05 artifexd We have to both agree to trust each other.
01:05 mircea_popescu right.
01:06 mircea_popescu more importantly, connections on the internet don't work unilaterally.
01:06 mircea_popescu so im guessing this is going to be forced by the medium.
01:06 artifexd They do via UDP
01:06 mircea_popescu if we were onm a purely broadcast network, it'd work right
01:06 mircea_popescu myeah.
01:06 mircea_popescu but udp is hard.
01:07 artifexd No argument
01:08 mircea_popescu im not entirely sure it is actually to any purpose important.
01:08 asciilifeform udp is trivial!
01:08 asciilifeform damnit.
01:08 asciilifeform tcp is hard.
01:08 mircea_popescu tcp is hard to employ usefully.
01:08 artifexd upd is trivial for sending information if you don't care if they received it
01:09 artifexd If you want a back and forth connection, you end up duplicating tcp yourself.
01:09 asciilifeform artifexd: for sufficiently simple quanta, it is very easy to 'verify received' without duplicating all the cruft of tcp.
01:09 mircea_popescu artifexd you will notice the spec is broadcast-oriented.
01:09 mircea_popescu you don't really need to hear anything back from anyone.
01:10 * asciilifeform believes the future to hold many one-way links
01:10 asciilifeform shortwave radio, castaway bottles, obelisks.
01:10 mircea_popescu artifexd nevertheless, since output is always encrypted to a key,
01:11 mircea_popescu unilateral relations are really hard.
01:11 mircea_popescu (i mean, as opposed to soft. it's not like twitter, follow X. it's the opposite, "send to X")
01:14 decimation it occurs to me that one ought not design low level features into a communication system unless absolutely necessary
01:14 mircea_popescu this about which bit ?
01:15 asciilifeform decimation: that particular point of contention was about a kind of thing not readily retrofitted.
01:15 asciilifeform it is a grave misconception that 'anything can be retrofitted.'
01:15 asciilifeform if it were so, existing net protocols would suffice...
01:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform explain transsexuals then.
01:16 asciilifeform decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-01-2015#967274
01:16 assbot Logged on 07-01-2015 01:22:05; asciilifeform: with udp, you can make the 'friend or foe?' decision upon receipt of a single (!) packet.
01:16 asciilifeform transsexuals ?
01:16 mircea_popescu they get gender bits retrofitted. it's a joke.
01:16 asciilifeform lol
01:16 asciilifeform actually very pertitent
01:16 asciilifeform good example of clumsy and very threadbare attempt at 'retrofit'
01:16 mircea_popescu and impertinent at the same time!
01:16 asciilifeform l0l
01:17 mircea_popescu i might be especially thick, but i don't actually understand what decimation is saying.
01:17 mircea_popescu which is the low level function ?
01:17 decimation this was from a paper that was written by folks who designed early 80's network protocols
01:18 decimation http://web.mit.edu/saltzer/www/publications/endtoend/endtoend.txt
01:18 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1ADtgPX )
01:18 * asciilifeform happens to be a crackpot specializing in the subject of 'abstractions being interchangeably paperable over is a mega-lie, foundations matter forever'
01:19 asciilifeform you will -never- get single-packet friend-or-foe with tcp or tcp-like apparatus.
01:19 asciilifeform (nor an immediate transposability to shortwave/message-in-bottle)
01:20 decimation I don't see why one couldn't route ircd on top of ascii's udp-wot-internet
01:20 decimation (the new ircd being proposed here)
01:20 mircea_popescu ah ah that's what you mean.
01:20 mircea_popescu yes, once that happens, they could.
01:21 mircea_popescu not before tho.
01:22 mircea_popescu decimation did you actually read the whole discussion ?
01:22 * asciilifeform is about to sleep, and recommends to friends also about to sleep, to read 'petrified world.'
01:22 asciilifeform good story before sleep.
01:22 adlai what's this?
01:22 asciilifeform http://pastebin.com/w5VYjyBu
01:22 assbot THE PETRIFIED WORLD (Robert Sheckley) - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1IomhL9 )
01:22 asciilifeform (quite pertinent to this evening's thread)
01:22 mircea_popescu are you 12 ?
01:23 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i think i read this.
01:23 asciilifeform aha srsly ?
01:23 decimation I did. I find myself liking ascii's hardened bedrock
01:23 asciilifeform hypothetical, sadly, bedrock
01:23 mircea_popescu decimation how was the experience ?
01:23 * asciilifeform does not have a battlefield-ready apparatus to offer
01:24 decimation it was a good discussion, I also found it stimulating
01:24 decimation but I do see the problem of broadcasting signed messages everywhere
01:24 mircea_popescu cool.
01:25 asciilifeform !s six words honest man
01:25 assbot 0 results for 'six words honest man' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=six+words+honest+man
01:25 asciilifeform damn.
01:25 asciilifeform 'If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him.' (richilieu)
01:26 adlai is this udp-over-wot concept "too long to fit in the margin", or have you sketched something about about it somewhere?
01:26 mircea_popescu yes, well, this is more a function of louis than anything.
01:27 asciilifeform adlai: described it at some length in #b-a at various points in the past month; also in a few comments on mircea_popescu's site.
01:27 adlai !s udp wot from:ascii
01:27 assbot 0 results for 'udp wot from:ascii' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=udp+wot+from%3Aascii
01:27 decimation the interent, as exists, is like tor - in the sense that the group is trying to solve the individual's problem
01:27 adlai !s udp from:ascii
01:27 assbot 0 results for 'udp from:ascii' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=udp+from%3Aascii
01:27 asciilifeform adlai: must note that it is originally entirely unrelated to mircea_popescu and artifexd's project
01:27 decimation the only real method of escape is layer 1 routing
01:28 asciilifeform !s udp
01:28 assbot 22 results for 'udp' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=udp
01:28 asciilifeform enjoy
01:28 mircea_popescu !s udp from:asciilifeform
01:28 assbot 12 results for 'udp from:asciilifeform' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=udp+from%3Aasciilifeform
01:28 adlai sure, this "ircd" thingy is just the latest in an uncoordinated herd of attempts to attack this same general problem
01:29 asciilifeform adlai: the way i understand it, we have at least three people right here who came up with very similar - but different in important respects - attempted solutions.
01:30 * adlai . o ( one could say that mpex simulates udp on top of tcp )
01:30 mircea_popescu one could say that, and be uncharitable.
01:30 adlai not enough "quantum"?
01:30 mircea_popescu lol
01:30 asciilifeform mpex was not the inspiration for my version of the concept, but was the impetus for my coming to believe that it is buildable and worth confessing to people about
01:31 adlai how so?
01:31 asciilifeform proving the point that stateless, medium-agnostic 'connectionless' comms are the only solid way to go.
01:31 adlai I guess it's an example of something which could work equally well over udp, and just happens to use tcp for convenience
01:32 asciilifeform i imagine mpex as consisting of three gurlz, in a box, in shifts, and a console.
01:32 mircea_popescu no, that;'s bitbet.
01:32 asciilifeform console can be connected to tcp or to radio set on valves
01:32 asciilifeform or pigeon cage.
01:33 mircea_popescu the kittens eat pigeons, so... no 1149
01:33 asciilifeform mark twain's cat'n'rat system, lol
01:34 adlai what about mpex needs tcp?
01:35 adlai I guess serving up data
01:35 * adlai is thinking too much like his code
01:37 decimation asciilifeform: medium could also be morse code, slowed down by a factor of 100, in order to achieve redundancy and low bandwidth http://www.w0ch.net/qrss/qrss.htm
01:37 assbot QRSS - Very Slow CW ... ( http://bit.ly/1Iopcn8 )
01:38 asciilifeform decimation: i'd classify all 'one way radio' as a single category for purpose of the discussion re: algorithmic basics.
01:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform afaik no "two way" exists
01:38 mircea_popescu not anymore than true love,anyway.
01:38 decimation yes, except physics categorizes these things naturally, in terms of propagation
01:38 asciilifeform 'one way' in the customary (numbers-station-to-spies) sense
01:38 mircea_popescu aha.
01:39 mircea_popescu just saying, kind of an engineering convention. no point in seeing too much metaphysics behind it
01:39 asciilifeform 'two way' would refer to, e.g., a microwave horn link between two montain top fortresses
01:39 asciilifeform that is, can pass back-n-forth in something resembling 'real time'
01:40 decimation if a receiver is capable of swallowing large power without desensitization, one can listen while one transmits arbitrarily
01:40 asciilifeform in one particular physical system ('passive rfid') one arguably has genuine 'back and forth'
01:42 asciilifeform in the sense of the signal in one direction being a modified, phase-shifted version of the continuous signal in the other.
01:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the price for this, of course, is immutability :)
01:42 decimation asciilifeform: like the 'soviet embassy bug': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thing_(listening_device)
01:42 assbot The Thing (listening device) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1ADxuqQ )
01:43 asciilifeform decimation: the original 'rfid', yes
01:43 asciilifeform !s theremin
01:43 assbot 7 results for 'theremin' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=theremin
01:45 decimation lol theremin was a zek when he 'invented' it
01:48 * asciilifeform thought that this was well-known
01:51 decimation ascii you could go visit it in person apparently
01:51 decimation 'the thing' I mean
01:51 asciilifeform it is kept in a museum, yes.
01:51 asciilifeform or at least a good copy.
01:52 asciilifeform there are some historical documents that suggest the original was destroyed by clumsy inspectors.
01:54 asciilifeform a somewhat younger, livelier usg had a multitude of copies produced, and used in utmost secrecy, almost immediately after the find.
01:55 asciilifeform one must appreciate the kind of technological leap it was, in that period
01:55 asciilifeform at that time, a typical 'bug' was not a small 'pill', easily concealed, transmitting (or recording) audio for weeks or months - the way one thinks of them now
01:56 asciilifeform rather, it was a microphone, often at least as large as, say, a thimble, and a very long wire
01:56 asciilifeform connecting it to either a tape recorder (no smaller, even in the most 'golden toilet' variant, than an auto pistol) - or to an actual set of headphones on a head.
01:57 asciilifeform theremin's 'bug' was, from this point of view, sheerly 'martian' technology.
01:57 decimation yeh it is a clever idea
01:58 asciilifeform in my 'death notebook' there is a design for a purely-chemical 'bug'.
01:58 asciilifeform perhaps when i am hanged, it will be manufactured somewhere.
02:00 asciilifeform ('chemical' in the sense of having no appreciable electrical currents flowing, nor conductors, except in a residual, ionic sense, nor semiconductors, inside.)
02:01 asciilifeform retrieve, develop (as in photograph), extract audio with simple analogue computer.
02:02 asciilifeform point of fact, i think i may have said quite enough just now, such that one may construct it.
02:02 asciilifeform good exercise 'for alert reader.'
02:02 decimation asciilifeform: a moving 'polarid' under a modulated light would do it
02:02 decimation but that would have a current
02:03 asciilifeform moving parts (except in the bare minimum of diaphragm) are a no-no.
02:03 ben_vulpes ah that's rich
02:04 asciilifeform but it is not especially hard to set up a chemical reaction that acts as a travelling 'record needle.'
02:04 Naphex thanks o/
02:04 ben_vulpes no wavefronts are a thing
02:04 ben_vulpes f'n bril, asciilifeform.
02:04 asciilifeform ben_vulpes gets it
02:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform weren;t you going to bed ?
02:04 asciilifeform was. probably will soon enough
02:04 asciilifeform sent woman to bed already
02:05 ben_vulpes matter of fact listening to you and mircea_popescu and artifexed go on has been educational and illuminating in any number of ways
02:05 mircea_popescu haha you know the rickjles joke ?
02:05 ben_vulpes much obliged
02:05 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes o you had fun ?
02:05 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: glad you took some interest in it. take the time later to write some comments?
02:05 asciilifeform rickjles ?
02:05 mircea_popescu "we were going to make it, so i told the wife, go ahead and get started, i'ma grab a paper"
02:06 mircea_popescu perhaps too ny jewish joke.
02:07 ben_vulpes <mircea_popescu> "fun" << myeah something like fun
02:07 ben_vulpes <asciilifeform> i like 'unscannable for', not because of any derping re: 'anonymity', but from sheer delight in the morale hit to enemy << this one in particular
02:20 ben_vulpes <mircea_popescu> [] and if i am in your list and you in mine the same is preserved by gossipd. << means that if you want everything you say on the record, operate a server for your identity.
02:20 ben_vulpes how to preserve the serenissima log semantics though? if all "chat lines" are wholly deniable, the notion of a public forum in which to do business publically falls apart.
02:21 ben_vulpes !up asciilifeform
02:22 ben_vulpes it only works for us, and sort of right now (?!?!?) because once upon a time assbot relied on the "authedness" of users via the "gribble" service.
02:22 ben_vulpes ;;ident
02:25 ben_vulpes <asciilifeform> [] that is an ad-hoc, bug-ridden reimplementation of the blockchain! << yeah but only half
02:26 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes how does it fall apart ?
02:26 ben_vulpes how does it maintain any sort of relevance, if it can be polluted by...
02:26 ben_vulpes ah i guess the log only makes sense as maintained by someone in a wot
02:26 mircea_popescu by ?
02:27 mircea_popescu take the eutherium short as a good working example.
02:27 mircea_popescu this identity, which may be me unless i deny it, proposes he will sign a contract so and so.
02:27 ben_vulpes by anyone who cares to transmit with a bogus "from"
02:27 mircea_popescu you agree to the terms.
02:27 mircea_popescu the contract is forthwith produced.
02:27 mircea_popescu now it's unrepudiable.
02:27 mircea_popescu no contract appears. well... now you cantell whoever you see me through that wtf is this bs.
02:27 mircea_popescu seems perfect.
02:28 ben_vulpes i was commenting at the point in the discusison at which messages were unsigned. did messages become signed?
02:28 mircea_popescu it is also EXACTLY how it worked,
02:28 mircea_popescu except once the few derps flaked, i had nobody to complain to.
02:28 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes no but recall the thing itself i refer to. a pastebin contract was in fact proferred.
02:28 ben_vulpes sure
02:29 mircea_popescu that.
02:29 ben_vulpes forgive the dunce cap hanging over my eyes, but i'm entirely failing to see how this makes for an unrepudiable log of the forum.
02:29 mircea_popescu it does not.
02:29 mircea_popescu it only makes for an unrepudiable log of what matters.
02:30 ben_vulpes "what matters" << to a keyset though, not "to everyone"
02:30 mircea_popescu because "everyone" does not matter.
02:30 mircea_popescu no more overhanging mega-group.
02:30 mircea_popescu people. just and only.
02:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21100 @ 0.00061581 = 12.9936 BTC [-]
02:31 ben_vulpes not a record of all strings sent to "#b-a", but a record of all strings sent to "#b-a" as seen by the lN of "assbot".
02:31 mircea_popescu that exists, for each item in l(N).
02:31 mircea_popescu and for them only.
02:31 * mircea_popescu finds it funny how the same one stump trips erryone.
02:32 ben_vulpes it's because we're all distracted by the hyperattractor 30d above the horizon and 15 deg port!
02:32 mircea_popescu wait wut
02:32 ben_vulpes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcjB2qN0TxM << hyperattractor
02:32 assbot Cat Chasing Laser Pointer - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1BxPpPS )
02:33 ben_vulpes bad joke; disregard
02:34 ben_vulpes <asciilifeform> [] probably quite a few folks. but the thing that distinguishes fermat from wot is that wot needs to be at least quasi-'hot' to really work as intended, imho. << strikes me that a series of "rating" messages should be parsed to build a rating history.
02:36 ben_vulpes <asciilifeform> [] i won't argue that wot moves ought to be retained for all eternity; but will say that some automatic caching is necessary << wotchains, perchance?
02:38 BingoBoingo * mircea_popescu finds it funny how the same one stump trips erryone. << Had to watchh for a while, but it clicked all at once
02:38 mircea_popescu wots are trivially doublespent. as part of normal functioning.
02:39 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo o it did ? makes sens enow as a whole ?
02:40 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Yeah. the skeleton in the RFC wasn't as revealing as the conversation was. gossipd putting the emphasis on Relay in IRC
02:42 mircea_popescu maybe you should write a restatement ? curious how it'd read.
02:44 BingoBoingo Needs more time to coalesce on brain. Might be on the order tomorrow.
02:45 scoopbot New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/fderp-december-2014-statement/
02:45 mircea_popescu no rush really.
02:50 BingoBoingo The challenge is the edge cases in the discussion really make the thing click.
02:53 mircea_popescu anyway, on contemplation i actually see this as my finest work to date.
02:53 mircea_popescu in any field.
02:53 mircea_popescu this is the only kind of youth one could possibly wish for themselves.
02:56 BingoBoingo And it's the kind of youth one has to be older than 30 to experience.
03:00 mircea_popescu i had the feeling when i was 16 :D
03:02 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15350 @ 0.00062031 = 9.5218 BTC [+] {2}
03:03 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14114 @ 0.00062638 = 8.8407 BTC [+]
03:04 BingoBoingo !up Vexual
03:05 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16874 @ 0.00062849 = 10.6051 BTC [+] {2}
03:08 Vexual y'all are fixing irc? better close that copper shoert.
03:11 Vexual what does rfc mean?
03:13 Vexual oh
03:14 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2010/nsfw-ingaduiti-mi-sa-va-impartasesc/
03:14 assbot NSFW - Ingaduiti-mi sa va impartasesc pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/14u5t9g )
03:14 Vexual nice
03:16 mircea_popescu that belt type, by the way, with themetal rounds ?
03:16 mircea_popescu absolute best type for belting butts.
~ 15 minutes ~
03:32 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18450 @ 0.00063015 = 11.6263 BTC [+]
03:43 fluffypony http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20150103.png
03:43 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1DwA6q8 )
03:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14400 @ 0.00062239 = 8.9624 BTC [-]
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04:08 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13388 @ 0.00063097 = 8.4474 BTC [+] {2}
04:15 cazalla holy fucking logs
04:16 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6098 @ 0.00064548 = 3.9361 BTC [+]
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04:33 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48100 @ 0.00064567 = 31.0567 BTC [+] {2}
04:42 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1609 @ 0.00064648 = 1.0402 BTC [+]
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05:17 fluffypony shock and horror
05:17 fluffypony http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2rkevr/cointerra_is_in_default/
05:17 assbot CoinTerra is in default : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1IpcEfm )
05:17 fluffypony such a surprise
05:17 fluffypony who knew
05:17 fluffypony /thread
~ 16 minutes ~
05:34 fluffypony !up punkman1
05:34 fluffypony punkman1: gribble is still offline
05:34 fluffypony !up punkman
05:43 scoopbot New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/01/changetip-spam-moves-beyond-twitter-youtube-reddit/
~ 27 minutes ~
06:10 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1548 @ 0.00079219 = 1.2263 BTC [-] {6}
06:21 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.00064648 = 7.7578 BTC [+]
06:33 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00064585 = 5.1668 BTC [-]
06:41 cazalla damn, how does a woman become such a milf with this shit in her life? http://youtu.be/Iu7C5clA4q0?t=4m36s
↖
06:41 assbot Broken Nights and Lost Days: Inside World of Severe Autism - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1wUcgPc )
06:56 cazalla !up RagnarDanneskjol
06:57 cazalla well, no longer auth'd so no help to you sorry RagnarDanneskjol
~ 19 minutes ~
07:16 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23550 @ 0.00063763 = 15.0162 BTC [-] {2}
07:23 jurov holy log
07:23 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00062183 = 19.5876 BTC [-] {2}
~ 38 minutes ~
08:02 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00063719 = 6.2445 BTC [+] {2}
08:09 jurov !up Vexual
~ 32 minutes ~
08:42 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41447 @ 0.00064778 = 26.8485 BTC [+] {2}
08:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22053 @ 0.00065249 = 14.3894 BTC [+]
08:51 thestringpuller http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2rji9f/looking_before_the_scaling_up_leap_by_gavin/cngsj0b
08:55 thestringpuller trilema is down
08:59 mod6 http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2rji9f/looking_before_the_scaling_up_leap_by_gavin/cngsj0b << ``OH GAVIN, DO YOU WANT SOME BUNNY COINZ?! WHERE CAN WE ALL LINE UP TO FELLATE YOU FOR BREAKING BITCOIN?''
08:59 assbot gavinandresen comments on Looking before the Scaling Up Leap - by Gavin Andresen ... ( http://bit.ly/1DxlYNe )
09:00 mod6 shit makes me so mad i want to punch two birds in the face: http://media.coindesk.com/2014/04/Gavin-with-cockie1.jpg
09:01 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dxmbjr )
09:01 thestringpuller Prepare for war boys.
09:01 mod6 prepare?
09:01 mod6 lol.
09:02 thestringpuller He declared war on us!
09:02 thestringpuller "A minority is opposed"
09:02 thestringpuller >:(
09:02 mod6 Since like 2014.10.22 I've been stabbing derps.
09:02 thestringpuller chyeeeaaauh
09:03 mod6 :D
09:03 thestringpuller mod6 run da streetz and gets no sleeep
09:03 thestringpuller CHEEEEEYYYEEEAAAUH
09:03 thestringpuller MAH NIGGAS WAR READY!
09:03 thestringpuller llololol
09:03 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13600 @ 0.00065249 = 8.8739 BTC [+] {2}
09:07 mod6 thestringpuller: Last Of A Dying Breed
09:08 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21997 @ 0.00065316 = 14.3676 BTC [+] {2}
09:14 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24200 @ 0.00065363 = 15.8178 BTC [+]
09:18 jurov cue thestringpuller chest thumping in full gear
09:22 jurov someone pls up nubbins`
09:22 jurov i cannot anymore :(
09:22 mod6 !up nubbins`
09:22 nubbins` ty
09:22 nubbins` wanted to share this, thought you guys might appreciate
09:22 nubbins` http://catimes.net/
09:23 nubbins` it just pulls news stories from other websites and does blind word replacement on the articles, to make them seem original
09:24 mod6 ``Error establishing database connection''
09:29 nubbins` nod guess 3 of us at once is too much
09:30 mod6 heh :]
~ 15 minutes ~
09:46 fluffypony lol nubbins`
09:46 fluffypony "A self-murder bomber pushing a minibus full of explosives killed during slightest 30 people Wednesday morning as cadets collected nearby a military academy in a heart of Yemen’s capital"
09:46 fluffypony "Skydivers burst to reserve before craft crashes"
09:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00065364 = 4.6082 BTC [+] {2}
10:04 jurov Police were called. They contend a 35-year-old Angus, Ont., male was inebriated and incompetent to scrupulously caring for himself.
10:05 jurov "competent to scrupulously care for oneself" lol this is CV material
10:06 jurov "Lovers of all things sly gathered to move on a holiday cheer, tell a few jokes and lift income for cats with no place to call home." indeed
10:10 thestringpuller jurov: haha. not so much cyrus from "The Warriors"
10:10 thestringpuller "CAN YOU SUCKAS COUNT"
10:11 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20400 @ 0.00064564 = 13.1711 BTC [-]
10:13 TomServo !up saifedean
10:14 saifedean Good evening, gentlemen, how goes it?
10:16 TomServo 'evening. It goes well, aside from the gribble vacation.
10:17 saifedean word on the street is that the noob ddosing subsided, so i dropped by
10:18 thestringpuller "CAN YOU SUCKAS COUNT"
10:19 jurov http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2716278 rip http
10:19 assbot HTTP/2.0 - The IETF is Phoning It In - ACM Queue ... ( http://bit.ly/1s5hcFt )
10:22 jurov lots of derp tho
~ 30 minutes ~
10:53 thestringpuller !up HeySteve
10:55 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1850 @ 0.00064498 = 1.1932 BTC [-] {2}
10:55 thestringpuller !t m s.qntr
10:55 assbot [MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0.00015 / 0.00015 / 0.00015 (7703 shares, 1.16 BTC), 7D: 0.00015 / 0.00015 / 0.00015 (7703 shares, 1.16 BTC), 30D: 0.00015 / 0.00015 / 0.00015 (7703 shares, 1.16 BTC)
10:55 thestringpuller !l m S.qntr
10:55 assbot Last trade for S.QNTR on MPEX was at 0.00015 BTC [-]
11:01 thestringpuller good morning mr. chairman
11:04 mircea_popescu "Not everyone who wants an immediate confirmation will be able to get it, regardless of how much they pay. If there's more people wanting next-block confirmation than there are slots in the block, it's mathematically guaranteed that people will miss out. As network usage grows, the percentage of unsatisfied users will grow linearly with it."
11:04 mircea_popescu check out the idiocy lol.
11:05 mircea_popescu "i want it" "are you paying for it ?" "no, but i still want it" "because ?" "because i say so, damn it" "this isn't fiat, billy" "fuck you stop opressing me"
11:05 thestringpuller that's a good way to put it
11:05 thestringpuller like a kid having a temper tantrum in a store because mommy won't buy him gummy bears
11:06 mircea_popescu anyway, i kinda enjoy all this acting as if they have an option in the matter.
11:06 * mircea_popescu really hopes he will actualyl get to rape this crowd.
11:06 mircea_popescu damn it'll be so sweet.
11:08 thestringpuller that's kublai/ghengis khan talk there
11:08 thestringpuller so who declared the war?
11:09 thestringpuller Gavin is provoking war, for what reason?
11:10 mircea_popescu he's just doing what told. "for democracy".
11:11 mircea_popescu whatever mini-nuland is in charge does not understand that there are forces more powerful on the field, who "do not understand how the world works"
11:12 thestringpuller but even so any fork at all needs to be killed immediately. it splits network power and lowers security.
11:12 thestringpuller ideally killing the fork before it's even a thing.
11:12 mircea_popescu i do not see this.
11:13 mircea_popescu the expensive and painful slow roasting of idiots is a very valuable output.
11:13 thestringpuller care to elaborate?
11:13 mircea_popescu their cries of pain and outrage should be preserved for posterity, to teach others.
11:13 thestringpuller heh.
11:14 thestringpuller benevolent AND merciful
11:14 mircea_popescu the fact that no lord ever wanted whoever he punished to ever die is directly apparent if you look at two things : their artists made hell be eternal torture ; the bodies lay in the gibbet at the gate for much longer than the dude inside survived.
11:14 mircea_popescu so no, if it lasts forever and it's nothing but a hellish cried of the tortured all the better.
11:15 mircea_popescu sadly this won't be possible here, like it's not possible generally, but in spirit.
11:16 thestringpuller i'm visualizing a classroom full of students pointing and laughing at Gavin while he struggles to find emotions and reactions
11:27 PeterL hi
11:27 mircea_popescu how goes.
11:28 mircea_popescu btw, you know scoopbot website is not werk ?
11:28 PeterL yeah, I know, I need to fix it
11:28 PeterL I think my server is blocked from trilema?
11:29 mircea_popescu pm me ip. did it make a ton of requests ?
11:32 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-01-2015#968556 << kid is practically begging to be beaten, they won't oblige.
11:32 assbot Logged on 07-01-2015 11:41:56; cazalla: damn, how does a woman become such a milf with this shit in her life? http://youtu.be/Iu7C5clA4q0?t=4m36s
11:34 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18350 @ 0.0006522 = 11.9679 BTC [+] {2}
11:41 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20250 @ 0.00064326 = 13.026 BTC [-]
11:42 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo cazalla here's a pretty good tip for qntra :
11:43 mircea_popescu nejc/bitstamp crew allege that hacker somehow got into their system, stole privkeys for their addresses, AND THEN deleted their copies. magically. they were all online or something, who knows.
11:43 mircea_popescu HOWEVER. one of those addresses is http://bitbet.us/stats/1QJRfCctSz7BLriE7CiF5LefBXJgm6Jcax/
11:43 assbot BitBet Stats ... ( http://bit.ly/141NVQw )
11:43 mircea_popescu in continuous use from dec 18th.
11:44 thestringpuller whoa
11:44 mircea_popescu now is the theory here that what, the haxxor is using on bitbet the same address that nejc was using on bitbet prior to the "hack" ? because why ?
11:44 asciilifeform ty mircea_popescu
11:45 mircea_popescu my pleasure.
11:45 thestringpuller sorry to hear you got the flu asciilifeform
11:45 thestringpuller the joys of slave labor in US eh?
11:47 asciilifeform if i knew how to earn bread without leaving home, i would
11:47 asciilifeform perhaps i ought to attend spam school.
11:48 PeterL my father-in-law earns a living at home in his pajamas, programming
11:48 mircea_popescu "Piketty, some would say, is king. I say Piketty has shown, like Gibbon, what is possible. "
11:48 mircea_popescu is this the french commie ?
11:58 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22200 @ 0.00065392 = 14.517 BTC [+] {3}
12:12 mircea_popescu ahhh the fact reddit is so in favour of this hardfork business is so great :D
12:12 mircea_popescu hot damn i hope they go through with it
12:13 mod6 tie them to the radiator and grape them in the mouth
12:14 mircea_popescu lol
12:15 fluffypony what hardfork business?
12:15 mircea_popescu fluffypony but the logs!
12:16 fluffypony it's holiday season :-P
12:16 mircea_popescu http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2rji9f/looking_before_the_scaling_up_leap_by_gavin/cnhdze7?context=3 << check it out, hashname perseveres.
12:16 assbot 0749dddfaecad1445f66 comments on Looking before the Scaling Up Leap - by Gavin Andresen ... ( http://bit.ly/141WUBo )
12:16 mircea_popescu fluffypony links for you there, as it happens.
12:16 fluffypony ah ok
12:17 mod6 http://youtu.be/Ow7pwIDhl5c
12:17 assbot Whitest Kids U Know - I am gonna grape you in the mouth - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/141Xdfz )
12:22 mircea_popescu nubbins`: it just pulls news stories from other websites and does blind word replacement on the articles, to make them seem original <<< there's a million of these.
12:23 mircea_popescu who the fuck is Taylor Swift
12:24 mircea_popescu "american singer-songwriter and actress"
12:24 assbot Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0DHN10G.txt )
12:24 thestringpuller !b 1
12:24 mircea_popescu why am i so surprised.
12:24 assbot Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/31JVZ88.txt )
12:24 thestringpuller !b 4
12:26 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6450 @ 0.000655 = 4.2248 BTC [+]
12:30 mircea_popescu "The IETF, obviously fearing irrelevance, hastily "discovered" that the HTTP/1.1 protocol needed an update, and tasked a working group with preparing it on an unrealistically short schedule. This ruled out any basis for the new HTTP/2.0 other than the SPDY protocol. With only the most hideous of SPDY's warts removed, and all other attempts at improvement rejected as "not in scope," "too late," or "no consensus," the IE
12:30 mircea_popescu TF can now claim relevance and victory by conceding practically every principle ever held dear in return for the privilege of rubber-stamping Google's initiative."
12:30 mircea_popescu heh. quite.
12:30 mircea_popescu as if irrelevance can ever be averted by this sort of thing.
12:30 mircea_popescu it's like making dogs blind to your fear by shaking uncontrollably.
12:36 mircea_popescu jurov: lots of derp tho << i kinda liked his piece tbh.
12:36 jurov ncfaci meant the bits where he promoted self-signed certs
12:37 mircea_popescu are they bad ?
12:37 mircea_popescu ;;ud ncfaci
12:38 jurov lol that's just keyfart
12:39 asciilifeform if using the ssl crock of shit at all, being your own signing authority (instead of swallowing the master key bullshit and extortionary fees of the 'authorities') is the only way to go
12:39 mircea_popescu oh
12:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform is what i thought too.
12:39 asciilifeform elementarily true
12:39 mircea_popescu after all "self-signed" cert can be edged into proper gpg signed matter, and it's all good.
12:39 asciilifeform and if a 'luser' won't read or can't remember the genuine fingerprint, and won't write it down, whatever - he has no business owning computer
12:40 mircea_popescu obviously "one has no way of knowing" if a self signed cert is good. but if there's also a .asc on the server... i'd say it's a damned sight better than "Verizon certifies"
12:40 asciilifeform in case anyone needs to be reminded of this - ssl remains a crock of shit - as in, the entire protocol stack is porous and comically maldesigned
12:41 mircea_popescu no contest.
12:42 mircea_popescu jurov im curious to hear the self signed cert reasoning tbh.
12:42 asciilifeform the traditional party line is 'oh noez you'll be mitm-ed if your browser doesn't refuse self-signed'
12:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2300 @ 0.00064884 = 1.4923 BTC [-] {2}
12:43 mircea_popescu sure, but i has a high regard of jurov.
12:44 asciilifeform jurov: what did you have in mind ?
12:44 kakobrekla unfortunately things people call browsers dont like to swallow self signed.
12:44 asciilifeform kakobrekla: this is because the browsers are usg projects.
12:44 asciilifeform in certain cases, directly
12:45 mircea_popescu check this out : http://www.westernjournalism.com/breaking-12-killed-french-islamic-terror-attack-real-story/
12:45 assbot Breaking: 12 Killed In French ISLAMIC Terror Attack. The REAL Story… ... ( http://bit.ly/1424mfR )
12:45 mircea_popescu IT CAN NOT BE TERRORISM!!!
12:45 jurov i believe self-signed certs are usable only for private use
12:45 jurov and even they they are PITA
12:45 kakobrekla yes they are so cause browsers.
12:46 jurov so they are not "almost zero cost"
12:46 mircea_popescu jurov what's private use ?
12:46 mircea_popescu allah hates comedy. who knew.
12:46 jurov inside a company for example
12:46 asciilifeform yes, usg succeeded in setting up the situation where every luserplebe's browser will ring bells, flash lights, if a cert didn't come with a hitler signature
12:47 asciilifeform some of the newer browsers, iirc, won't even give him the option of swallowing
12:47 jurov i don't contest that
12:47 mircea_popescu asciilifeform they also managed this situation where all the shit online carries a "5000 derps that don't really exist LIKE THIS"
12:47 mircea_popescu because yes, absolutely, moar democracy.
12:48 asciilifeform demoocracy aha.
12:48 mircea_popescu jurov so you mean, it only works for sessions where the user knows/trusts the source, as opposed to whatever, random drive-by publishing ?
12:48 mircea_popescu would work for a bank, wouldn't work for a newspaper sort of thing ?
12:48 jurov i'm looking forward how are they going to solve it in libressl, if ever
12:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16700 @ 0.000656 = 10.9552 BTC [+] {2}
12:50 jurov i don't see how every time i'm accessing anything via https/smtps i'm going to think whether this is the right cert
12:50 jurov tools like surl don't save it like ssh
12:50 jurov *curl
12:51 mircea_popescu jurov my browser allows me to save cert for later ?
12:51 mircea_popescu checks against it as if it were verizon'd, no difference
12:51 mircea_popescu is this minority behaviour ?
12:51 jurov i am not talking about browser, that's lost cause
12:51 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> now is the theory here that what, the haxxor is using on bitbet the same address that nejc was using on bitbet prior to the "hack" ? because why ? << I don't see any new bets after the 4th. COuld just be a derp who wanted to "win" to his Bitstamp deposit address?
12:51 mircea_popescu curl similarily imports certs ?
12:52 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo wasn't the actual breach prior to the 4th ?
12:52 mircea_popescu as opposed to announcement thereof ?
12:52 jurov it annoys me to no end when i install self-signed cert and even if i try to distribute it between machines, some dam curl-like tool breaks
12:53 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Bitstamp's line is the 4th and they didn't announce before then. so if it was earlier still time for customers to get fucked pertending deposit addressses are theirs.
12:53 jurov also, email clients. it was *not* possible to make all them work with self-signed cert
12:53 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo i guess that works out then, prolly a customer.
12:53 mircea_popescu a well.
12:53 jurov it's just all lost cause. self-signed certs yes, but only after ssl/tls is ditched.
12:54 mircea_popescu jurov well ok, by and large for any expectation it won't be possible to make "all" work. because anyone can anything, and well...
12:54 mircea_popescu but i see whatcha mean. "not politically favoured, so not as well ironed out, so harder to use"
12:54 jurov it's much easier with ssh for example
12:54 mircea_popescu well yes, partly because ssh has no verizon.
12:54 mircea_popescu you gotta put your key in
12:55 mircea_popescu whodda thought, you know, that NOT invoving an us company is better.
13:00 BingoBoingo http://news.slashdot.org/story/15/01/07/1440253/gunmen-kill-12-wound-7-at-french-magazine-hq
13:00 assbot Gunmen Kill 12, Wound 7 At French Magazine HQ - Slashdot ... ( http://bit.ly/14288py )
13:02 BingoBoingo thestringpuller: The atlantic doesn't know you exist http://t.co/uHfcEi8KRg
13:02 assbot Why Are So Few Black People Using Bitcoin? - The Atlantic ... ( http://bit.ly/1428soe )
13:02 mircea_popescu lol
13:03 BingoBoingo https://twitter.com/pete_dushenski/status/552862307307782144
13:03 assbot The Atlantic: Why Are So Few Black People Using Bitcoin?http://t.co/SEd8fZWC37
13:04 BingoBoingo pete suggested: "Maybe they are better at keeping it on the down low".
13:05 mircea_popescu what atlantic really means is "why are there so few black scammers in bitcoin, because that's all we know about anyway". and the reason couldn't possibly be "because they're just more honest than whitey"
13:06 thestringpuller hah!
13:06 thestringpuller hahah!
13:06 mircea_popescu tis true.
13:06 thestringpuller except for Lamar
13:06 thestringpuller of Pheeva
13:06 thestringpuller pretty sure he's taking bitpay cock up da butt knowing the implications
13:07 mircea_popescu you keep going. you'll run out before i'm done enumerating pasty ass.
13:07 thestringpuller hahaha! i thought only black people used "pasty white person" phrasing
13:07 mircea_popescu im also black
13:07 thestringpuller gotta love pasty white girls who are afraid of the sun like vampires tho ;)
13:07 mircea_popescu in my spare time.
13:08 thestringpuller o i kno
13:08 thestringpuller MP is og
13:08 mircea_popescu anyway, i have no problem with dudes going "oh, blacks do all teh crime!!!" if that's what they believe, and start running off stats about it. big whoop. but it's funny how nobody happens to fucking noticing the OTHER stats.
13:08 thestringpuller mir-dizzle to the popes-rizzle
13:08 mircea_popescu "black on black violence in the ghetto is so and so!!1". fine. and white on white scamming in bitcoin is how ?
13:09 assbot Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3TTCAS7.txt )
13:09 BingoBoingo !b 1
13:09 asciilifeform i'm told that there is - somewhat lower-tech - traditional 'black on black' sc4mz0r1ng - 'numbers games' run in back alleys, etc.
13:09 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yeah. the shit run by jews in 1935.
13:09 asciilifeform the very same
13:09 mircea_popescu and by italians in 1955.
13:10 mircea_popescu probably on the same damned exact stones.
13:10 asciilifeform quite likely.
13:10 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> i'm told that there is - somewhat lower-tech - traditional 'black on black' sc4mz0r1ng - 'numbers games' run in back alleys, etc. << Replaced by same game with different operator "Lottery"
13:10 mircea_popescu i went to school in this huge, what you'd call super-preppy thing.
13:10 mircea_popescu and i have this distinct memory of a kid being pissed of at some chick, and going to carve "X is a whore" in the wall
13:10 BingoBoingo Exurb
13:10 mircea_popescu except... there was that ALREADY carved there. easily 50 years old.
13:10 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: the interesting thing is that usg has not succeeded in entirely displacing the native, ethnic 'lotteries'
13:10 mircea_popescu same name, same exact string.
13:13 mircea_popescu ;;later tell pete_dushenski "Their habitual attacks on forums is usually" << are.
13:13 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1273 @ 0.00079999 = 1.0184 BTC [-] {4}
13:15 mircea_popescu "But what of it? How does this effect you? Well, it effects" affects you. afect is another name for sentiment. to affect is to cause an effect upon something. to effect, confusingly enough, is to cause the execution of something. so, you effect legislation, and that legislation affects people.
13:21 saifedean hai there, mp, thanks for the voice
13:22 mircea_popescu np
13:22 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.00065626 = 9.7126 BTC [+]
13:25 TomServo https://twitter.com/Bitstamp/status/552875687137525760
13:25 assbot Our temporary website didn’t feel quite like home - so we gave it a little refresh while we work on restoring full services.
13:25 kakobrekla win
13:25 mircea_popescu "Keep up the good work!"
13:26 kakobrekla temp site looking good!
13:26 TomServo very nice shade of green!
13:26 kakobrekla all green, nicely done. Safe choice of colors.
13:26 mircea_popescu when are they bringing the fractional reserve back up ?
13:29 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22202 @ 0.00065626 = 14.5703 BTC [+]
13:31 asciilifeform 'got fish? nope, this is the meat counter. fish is what they don't have at the fish counter.'
13:31 mircea_popescu lol
13:32 mircea_popescu in other news, http://cdn.collarspace.com/photos/2173196p03.jpg?01072015085027
13:32 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/17jarXj )
~ 21 minutes ~
13:54 mod6 kakobrekla: lol!
13:54 kakobrekla as safe as their hot wallet
13:54 * asciilifeform reread last night's thread, and grasped mircea_popescu deniable-transmissions scheme.
13:55 mircea_popescu better on 2nd pass huh ?
13:55 asciilifeform aha
13:55 asciilifeform also better when awake
13:55 mircea_popescu cool!
13:55 mircea_popescu lol
13:55 mircea_popescu saifedean answered.
13:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47600 @ 0.00063408 = 30.1822 BTC [-] {6}
13:57 mircea_popescu by the way, requiem for a dream. good film.
13:57 * asciilifeform saw, some years ago, liked
14:06 kakobrekla btw bitstamp is moving operations to us (prolly sf).
↖
14:06 kakobrekla you heard it here phirst.
14:06 asciilifeform l0l!
14:07 mike_c interesting. they must be retaining UK incorporation, no? I would think it would be legal shitstorm otherwise.
14:07 kakobrekla i dont think so but dont have the details.
14:08 mike_c they should come to NYC. very bitcoin friendly. just drop all your coins off at lawsky's office on the way into town.
14:08 BingoBoingo Mebbe they think legal shitstorm is to their benefit for filing bankruptcy?
14:10 mircea_popescu kakobrekla so they can "cover" by being bought.
14:10 mircea_popescu something tells me they have nfi how to write a term sheet, and there's about 50-50 odds of the financer backing out.
14:10 mircea_popescu tl;dr : this won't end well.
14:11 mircea_popescu watch how in a few short months it won't be possible to buy bitcoin at any price.
14:12 mircea_popescu i guess ima have to bring an exchange online willy-nilly.
↖
~ 18 minutes ~
14:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21700 @ 0.00065305 = 14.1712 BTC [+]
14:32 BingoBoingo "Attacks cell walls" You know just what penicillin and the rest of the beta-lactams do: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2015-01-07/antibiotic-breakthrough-ends-25-year-discovery-drought.html
14:32 assbot Antibiotic Breakthrough Ends 25-Year Discovery Drought - Bloomberg ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dynz5m )
14:33 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7345 @ 0.00024059 = 1.7671 BTC [-] {3}
14:35 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 22000 @ 0.00023561 = 5.1834 BTC [-] {3}
14:40 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30200 @ 0.00063652 = 19.2229 BTC [-] {2}
14:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15750 @ 0.00062815 = 9.8934 BTC [-]
14:49 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15093 @ 0.0002001 = 3.0201 BTC [-]
~ 19 minutes ~
15:08 asciilifeform wai wat, mircea_popescu with an exchange ?!
15:08 * asciilifeform will fly to conf3 on a pig, if this happens
15:10 BingoBoingo * asciilifeform will fly to conf3 on a pig, if this happens << The Fairchild "WartHog"???
15:12 artifexd mircea_popescu: Regarding gossipd, do you have any preference for the data flowing over the wire as binary or text?
15:14 artifexd Binary would mean shorter messages because fingerprint a would only take up 20 bytes (instead of 40) and keys would not have to be armored. Text would make the flow easier to read/debug but the data would necessarily take up more space.
15:20 jurov artifecd did you research some existing ideas?
15:21 jurov i liked http://twistedmatrix.com/documents/8.2.0/api/twisted.protocols.amp.html but did not try it in practice
15:21 assbot twisted.protocols.amp : API documentation ... ( http://bit.ly/14pFQG2 )
15:21 BingoBoingo http://media.bnd.com/smedia/2014/12/19/06/56/1jjiYD.AuSt.98.jpg
15:21 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/14pFSxE )
15:29 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.00062034 = 2.7295 BTC [-]
15:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24353 @ 0.00065628 = 15.9824 BTC [+] {2}
15:49 cazalla mircea_popescu: HOWEVER. one of those addresses is http://bitbet.us/stats/1QJRfCctSz7BLriE7CiF5LefBXJgm6Jcax/ <<< isn't this just a case of someone using their bitstamp deposit address for bitbet payouts, even kakobrekla mentioned this http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-01-2015#965903
15:49 assbot BitBet Stats ... ( http://bit.ly/14pPh8o )
15:49 assbot Logged on 05-01-2015 15:10:48; kakobrekla: im now getting "my output address is bitstamp hot wallet" emails from bitbet users.
15:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23300 @ 0.00065933 = 15.3624 BTC [+] {2}
15:51 thestringpuller mircea_popescu: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2rkt1u/coinbase_give_us_the_right_to_run_your_credit/cngz6fs a voice of reason
15:57 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40570 @ 0.0006355 = 25.7822 BTC [-] {4}
15:58 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45530 @ 0.00061195 = 27.8621 BTC [-] {3}
~ 15 minutes ~
16:13 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22500 @ 0.00061774 = 13.8992 BTC [+]
16:16 cazalla BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Bitstamp's line is the 4th and they didn't announce before then. so if it was earlier still time for customers to get fucked pertending deposit addressses are theirs. <<< and there is still the issue of what amount of coins will not honoured by bitstamp after the annoucement
~ 18 minutes ~
16:35 asciilifeform artifexd: text?! wtf
16:37 asciilifeform jurov: and what is that gnarly pythonism.
16:39 * asciilifeform wonders if he woke up in some alternate universe #b-a full of www-dev folks
16:41 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33300 @ 0.00065025 = 21.6533 BTC [+] {3}
16:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00066312 = 7.5596 BTC [+] {4}
16:46 mircea_popescu artifexd it's always encrypted, so what do you mean text ?
16:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/01/lawmakers-facebook-rant-threatens-media-for-unauthorized-use-of-his-name << turns out we have these here.
16:50 assbot Lawmaker’s Facebook rant threatens media for “unauthorized” use of his name | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1zURjpq )
16:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.000664 = 3.32 BTC [+]
16:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9276 @ 0.000664 = 6.1593 BTC [+]
17:03 Apocalyptic "mircea_popescu:i must say, incidentally, i thoroughly enjoyed this discussion." // so did I, thanks for the priceless logs
17:05 mircea_popescu cazalla seems so, yes.
17:05 mircea_popescu thestringpuller not bad. invite them over.
17:06 mircea_popescu Apocalyptic cool!
17:07 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8224 @ 0.00065749 = 5.4072 BTC [-]
17:18 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2015/oil-theory/#comment-111275 perhaps of broad interest seeing the fork war context.
17:18 assbot Oil theory pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1zUVnGp )
17:18 mircea_popescu last para at any rate.
17:23 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29650 @ 0.00066537 = 19.7282 BTC [+] {3}
17:23 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'Let them have scrip, will be good enough for them...' << usd is not already scrip ?
17:23 mircea_popescu quite.
17:24 asciilifeform admittedly, a peculiar kind of scrip, for which one can get certain things overseas (for the time being)
17:25 asciilifeform at some point, usd will no longer be a 'convertible' unit. completing its transition to equivalent of the soviet ruble.
17:26 asciilifeform really the definition, if there is one, of 'scrip.'
17:26 asciilifeform just like you can't spend subway tokens outside of the subway.
17:27 mike_c ^ it is also illegal to sell them.. such bullshit.
17:27 undata "and then the ashes of their apps were all that remained"
17:32 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'The notion that gold supply does not increase a lot is predicated on obsolete technology. Gold supply would increase quite a lot, and in really harmful ways involving cyanide, if it seriously became monetized.' << iirc, cyanidation was SOP since 1890s.
17:32 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: now, harmful methods involving - neutrons? yes.
17:32 mircea_popescu sure.
17:32 mircea_popescu just, lemme fish this out
17:33 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2010/hai-sa-facem-si-noi-de-astea/
17:33 assbot Hai sa facem si noi de-astea pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1s6wee4 )
17:33 mircea_popescu that's one of those large excavators
17:33 mircea_popescu THAT was not sop in 1890s
17:33 asciilifeform aha.
17:34 asciilifeform butugychag rennaissance is inevitable anyway
17:34 asciilifeform quite a few increasingly scarce strategic minerals, all across mendeleev table.
17:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13168 @ 0.00066552 = 8.7636 BTC [+] {2}
17:37 undata asciilifeform: seems like an economic meltdown would also decrease the demand for those for new iPhones
17:38 asciilifeform for pNohes - down. for bolometers used in heat-seeking rocket - up.
17:39 asciilifeform it's an elementary 'who at this table starves last' situation
17:41 BingoBoingo I'm pretty sure pNohe sellers could find a way to make resistive touchscreens fashionable again.
17:42 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: In is not the only scarce mineral.
17:44 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Sure.
17:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'Currency generally is in the hands of a selected few, this situation where every man woman and child holds some is an exception, and I suspect coming to an end.' << i recall being shown, as a boy, an 1890s ru coin that 'would feed a family for a month!111!!'
17:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this kind of thing worked in 'tribal' structure, where most folks are reasonably 'close to the soil' and grow/kill the necessities of life personally. i suppose it also works in a concentration camp - though, iirc, these also typically have a kind of scrip and so aren't entirely free of currency.
17:47 mircea_popescu it will work fine in the world of the future
17:47 mircea_popescu independence is predicated on something other than being a redditor.
17:47 asciilifeform i'd guess more of a #2 than 1
17:48 asciilifeform does 'reddit' really differ in any fundamental way, as a basic urban treadmill, from 1700s english gin, or roman circuses ?
17:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4226 @ 0.00065749 = 2.7786 BTC [-]
17:51 BingoBoingo Only really differs in that some outside idiots consider things that emerge from there as worthy of consideration as virtue, instead of vice as in the case of English gin.
17:52 ben_vulpes <mircea_popescu> [] o look, 1k lines by 4 am. ben_vulpes will so much love this. << lord am i
17:52 ben_vulpes 100% serious
17:52 BingoBoingo http://reason.com/blog/2015/01/07/the-white-house-on-charlie-hebdo-then-an
17:52 assbot The White House on Charlie Hebdo, Then and Now - Hit & Run : Reason.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1s6yAK7 )
17:53 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-07-2014#772767
17:53 assbot Logged on 27-07-2014 19:19:35; mircea_popescu: chetty: II 5. France took Algeria, hoping for a country to eat cassoulet and instead France is now eating couscous. << this is what happens when small penis messes with big penis.
17:56 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Naturally. I still wait for California's Seirra Nevada range to be inverted in the quest for rare minerals and to create H2O reservoir capacity to sustain the prisons and work farms.
17:58 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00062969 = 2.8966 BTC [-]
17:59 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i'm expecting to end up in an inca-style, rather than soviet-style, camp
18:00 ben_vulpes !up mats
18:00 ben_vulpes wb mats
18:00 asciilifeform that is, there is a fence to keep folks from leaving; they are left to fend for selves for food and water within the confines; and if the weekly quota of $metal is not brought to the gates in timely manner, there are public educaxecutions
18:01 asciilifeform perhaps we should refer to this as 'belgian' method
18:01 BingoBoingo Belgian method sounds about right.
18:01 BingoBoingo Leopold, that man had ideas.
18:01 asciilifeform what ideas. spain was there long first.
18:01 ben_vulpes someone up mats plz
18:01 BingoBoingo Leopold tried on a harsher continent.
18:01 asciilifeform and the basic notion of working folks to death in a mine - is ancient.
18:01 BingoBoingo !up mats
18:02 ben_vulpes wait are we actually using altgribble for auth now?
18:02 asciilifeform who?
18:02 BingoBoingo Leopold's flavor also came with an exit strategy.
18:02 BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: I've just stayed connected.
18:02 ben_vulpes me too.
18:02 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: everything comes with 'exit strategy'
18:02 asciilifeform just not necessarily the one you might like
18:05 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu and kakobrekla have been voicing folks by hand.
18:05 ben_vulpes yeah but how come BingoBoingo gets to !up and not me
18:05 * ben_vulpes stomps foot petulantly
18:06 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes cause he kept an uninterrupted connection and assbot still sees him
18:06 BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: Maybe your connection just needs to be less wonh
18:06 ben_vulpes when did assbot come back?
18:06 ben_vulpes ;;ident
18:06 ben_vulpes you know what?
18:06 asciilifeform assbot, afaik, never died
18:06 ben_vulpes i don't actually care.
18:06 mircea_popescu <BingoBoingo> Only really differs in that some outside idiots consider things that emerge from there as worthy of consideration as virtue, instead of vice as in the case of English gin. <<< there;'s tons of "gin as virtue" songs and oral liuterature.
18:06 asciilifeform it's simply rudderless w/out gribble
18:07 ben_vulpes derp, i meant gribble.
18:07 mircea_popescu it was not preserved in writing because the mps of the time did not see itworthy of their wot.
18:07 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15300 @ 0.00066554 = 10.1828 BTC [+]
18:07 asciilifeform 'work is the curse of the drinking class' !
18:08 mircea_popescu <ben_vulpes> wait are we actually using altgribble for auth now? << no.
18:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: iirc, a good bit of that stuff -was- preserved in writing - of a kind. e.g., 'broadside ballads'
18:08 mircea_popescu sure.
18:12 ben_vulpes <asciilifeform> [] hitler does know considerably more under the all-signed scenario than alternative. << your sought "morale hit"
18:13 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i did, later, grasp mircea_popescu's deniable-transmission algo
18:13 kakobrekla ben_vulpes you can speak cause you have ops not cause authed with gribble and assbot.
18:13 kakobrekla and you cant !up, but you can +voice
18:14 ben_vulpes confession time, i know nothing about the arcana of irc modes
18:14 mircea_popescu join the club.
18:14 ben_vulpes gossipd when
18:14 mircea_popescu as soon as artifexd gets exactly drunk enough ?
18:14 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: trick is that two directly-connected cells may as well be exchanging signed msgs. but relayed msgs (in, e.g., cells a -> b -> c, from a to c) are 'gossip' - that is, 'deniable.'
18:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform precisely
18:16 ben_vulpes clever, neh?
18:16 ben_vulpes i imagine we'll all be running our own cells initially.
18:16 mircea_popescu permanently ?
18:16 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: how do you propose to use the hypothetical gizmo without running a cell ?
18:16 mircea_popescu i suppose once webchat is enabled you could use that.
18:17 ben_vulpes how does someone relay a message to a cell and from a cell to another cell?
18:17 mircea_popescu dude just read it first lol;
18:17 mircea_popescu ask after.
18:17 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: manually configured peers
18:17 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: do read mircea_popescu's article, it is very concise.
18:19 ben_vulpes forgive the extremely poorly articulated comment.
18:19 ben_vulpes i imagine a steady-state future where people operate gossipd cells in much the same way that ircd's are operated on fleanode.
18:20 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: rather more like bitcoin - in that you introduce messages into the net by loading them into your own cell
18:20 asciilifeform which then propagates to your peers
18:21 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: https://blockchain.info/pushtx
18:21 assbot Broadcast Transaction - Blockchain.info ... ( http://bit.ly/1s6D7Mt )
18:21 asciilifeform (i forget if this was mircea_popescu's terminology in the original article, or not)
18:21 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: aha but you cannot really have this, unless you - in particular - or one of your peers - wants to create a public toilet for spam and give it peerage
18:22 ben_vulpes it *will* happen.
18:22 ben_vulpes the structure of the thing implies many wots.
18:22 asciilifeform if one carries on with such, may find himself on a rather smaller and lonelier gossipnet
18:22 asciilifeform than before.
18:22 ben_vulpes doubtful, see the ever prolix reddit.
18:23 asciilifeform incidentally i don't recall if any of you lot suggested this, but: max-graph-degrees knob.
18:23 asciilifeform for when you want a 'louder', 'more new blood' sort of experience - crank clockwise.
18:24 asciilifeform for the radio aficionados among us, let's call it 'squelch'
18:24 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes there's no value in imposing values for poeople.
18:24 mircea_popescu just as long as i can isolate the redditd from my machine, the people who want to be in there are more then welcome to their own choices.
18:24 mircea_popescu freedom is this, not something else.
18:25 ben_vulpes i'm not suggesting any values be forced on anyone.
18:25 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i thought it's implicit in the spec, in the "receiver decides if to relay" : you can configure a client to pass, to user or other clients, whatever you wish
18:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in a way, it is. but sort of left as an exercise.
18:26 mircea_popescu yea. well honestly most everything is so left.
18:26 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes granted. i just mean... so they do,more power to em.
18:27 * ben_vulpes intends to run an open relay node - openly disclosed as such for those in the mood to twiddle knobs
18:27 ben_vulpes cell, excuse me.
18:28 mircea_popescu sure
18:30 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: "hashname" << have ye unleashed the valkyrie on reddit?
18:31 mircea_popescu i dunno who it is
18:31 mircea_popescu but some youthful enthusiast,i got a few offline pms.
18:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6450 @ 0.00066554 = 4.2927 BTC [+]
18:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00066593 = 8.2575 BTC [+] {2}
~ 16 minutes ~
18:59 thestringpuller !up tsp_2
19:12 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4331 @ 0.00064543 = 2.7954 BTC [-]
19:21 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1393 @ 0.00081683 = 1.1378 BTC [-] {5}
~ 30 minutes ~
19:52 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12200 @ 0.00064543 = 7.8742 BTC [-]
19:53 mircea_popescu sooo... apparently "text" mysql blobs are limited to 65535 characters ?
20:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/artifexd-a-better-ircd-rfc/#comment-111278 << perhaps should be a separate article ?
20:05 assbot [Artifexd] A better ircd [RFC] pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1BJK9GN )
20:05 mircea_popescu it is incredible just how broken wordpress is.
20:13 BingoBoingo http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/14/muslim-gangs-continue-to-terrorize-55-neighborhoods-police-powerless/
20:13 assbot Muslim Gangs Terrorize 55 Neighborhoods, Police Powerless | The Daily Caller ... ( http://bit.ly/1BJLo90 )
20:14 asciilifeform ^ mega-lol!
20:15 asciilifeform when does the actual gov of se (northern caliphate) send replacement embassy to washington.
20:21 BingoBoingo Question is will they ever care to.
20:21 asciilifeform !s yi yi zhi yi
20:21 assbot 13 results for 'yi yi zhi yi' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=yi+yi+zhi+yi
20:21 asciilifeform ^ alternate hypothesis
20:23 BingoBoingo In that case embassy lives in the shadows
20:24 asciilifeform very simple formula: the 'barbarians' are in fact employees of the swedish (french, british, american - each case) government, aka usg, in good standing.
20:25 asciilifeform their purpose is to terrorize the native population, for a variety of useful purposes (bolster seekoority state; keep real estate prices in less-afflicted zones high; etc)
20:26 asciilifeform in many cases these folks are literally 'employed' to create chaos - as in, they get a pension, in return for... doing just that
20:26 asciilifeform but this is a subject covered in painstaking detail in many other places.
20:27 mircea_popescu i suppose this is not the best time to bring up the barbecuran.
20:27 asciilifeform l0l
20:27 mircea_popescu isn't it sort-of strange how this works ?
20:28 asciilifeform only if mircea_popescu wants to test the turrets.
20:28 mircea_popescu sure.
20:28 asciilifeform they do need occasional testing.
20:28 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16300 @ 0.00064046 = 10.4395 BTC [-] {2}
20:29 mircea_popescu more's the point : ever wonder how these dudes pick ?
20:29 asciilifeform http://frallik.livejournal.com/904117.html << 'they faked'
20:29 assbot Varnish Error 503 Service Unavailable ... ( http://bit.ly/1BJNOEp )
20:29 asciilifeform that was fast.
20:30 mircea_popescu i can see it
20:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9805 @ 0.00065157 = 6.3886 BTC [+]
20:34 mircea_popescu anyway, which kind of evil sand niggers were these ? the irani like or the saudi like ?
20:35 asciilifeform not, afaik, specified
20:35 mircea_popescu only an important point when discussing which side to give arms to ?
20:35 asciilifeform sunni is well-funded iirc.
20:36 mircea_popescu they'reall well funded.
20:36 mircea_popescu heck, they're better funded than wasps.
20:36 asciilifeform shia could use a better operating system.
20:37 cazalla damn, the shooters in France don't fucking hesitate, down under it took almost 24 hours for the shooter to fire off a round https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSMJb0fcWt4
20:37 assbot Charlie Hebdo magazine police officer shot in head - CLOSE UP! - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1BJOU31 )
20:40 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.00065157 = 5.7338 BTC [+]
20:43 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: incidentally, this is just after president hollande suggests pulling out of ru sanctions thing
20:43 mircea_popescu lol
20:43 mircea_popescu so it is sunni then
20:45 asciilifeform then or generic theatre.
20:45 mircea_popescu kinda pleasant to watch europe from distance.
20:45 mircea_popescu ovbiously, the result of this is not concentration camps for all muslims indiscriminately, because... well...
20:45 mircea_popescu "can't generalize".
20:52 decimation right, becuase all muslims are peaceful
20:52 mircea_popescu Al-Azhar University in Cairo, Sunni Islam's leading centre of learning, called the attack "criminal" and said "Islam denounces any violence".
20:53 mircea_popescu so it WAS sunni.
20:53 decimation so it seems to me that this 'cell' topology is vulnerable in the sense that it is obvious who is relaying packets
20:53 decimation third parties (required for routing packets) would know whose necks to squeeze
20:54 asciilifeform decimation: you can't decrypt a single packet until a cell peers you
20:55 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3650 @ 0.00064096 = 2.3395 BTC [-]
20:55 mircea_popescu decimation the graph is very flat, with 100s of connections. you will have to squeeze a large fraction to disrupt anything.
20:55 decimation asciilifeform: right, but the intervening routers know the ip addresses of the cells
20:55 asciilifeform decimation: or did you simply mean the proverbial future of the gasenwagen, where the mere act of transmitting cryptostrange is a gassing offense
20:55 mircea_popescu only of the closest
20:55 decimation it's true that if the network can be scaled this is less of a concern
20:56 asciilifeform decimation: of some cells. no info on who they belong to (what keys), who the peers are, etc
20:56 decimation it would be beneficial if nodes could connect via multiple 'ports' (vpns, etc)
20:57 asciilifeform decimation: if you use udp, like i proposed, you can even have the mindfuck of a 'bar-bell shaped' cell - a 'multihomed' machine receives on one ip and transmits on another
20:57 asciilifeform the receiver is, to anyone lacking a peerage key, just a black hole.
20:57 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this works on tcp too
20:57 decimation asciilifeform: indeed. perhaps even hundreds of connections
20:57 mircea_popescu decimation what difference does the port make.
20:57 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: nope. does not work on tcp.
20:58 asciilifeform because tcp establishes a connection
20:58 mircea_popescu receiving on one ip and sending on another ? sure, why niot.
20:58 asciilifeform that - yes
20:58 asciilifeform but the receiver being indistinguishable from an empty wall plug - no.
20:58 decimation mircea_popescu: receiving on one ip and rxing' on another is what I'm calling a 'port'
20:58 mircea_popescu try the experiment, send handskakes to random hosts on port 1337
20:58 mircea_popescu plenty answer.
20:58 mircea_popescu what of it.
20:58 asciilifeform call it a goldbox.
20:58 mircea_popescu decimation ah i thought you meant specifically :x
20:59 asciilifeform that's what the 'phreak' version (bridge of two telephone lines) was.
20:59 decimation well, there's also the thought of puttint it all on tcp port 80 and putting fake http headers
20:59 mircea_popescu Le troisième homme recherché, âgé de 18 ans, s'est rendu dans la nuit au commissariat de Charleville-Mézières, dans les Ardennes.
20:59 mircea_popescu one surrendered.
21:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20266 @ 0.00065389 = 13.2517 BTC [+] {2}
21:00 mircea_popescu decimation really, this entire anonimity thing is moot. what exactly is going to happen ?
21:00 mircea_popescu people still run torrents to this day.
21:00 asciilifeform that part is just a bonus.
21:00 decimation might as well wear a mustache while wearing fake glasses
21:01 mircea_popescu "Selon le procureur, deux policiers ont également étés tués par les assaillants. L'un, le brigadier Franck Brinsolaro, du Service de la protection (SDLP, ex-SPHP) était chargé de la sécurité de Charb, selon des sources syndicales policières. L'autre, Ahmed Merabet, a été tué à l'extérieur, alors que les assaillants prenaient la fuite."
21:01 mircea_popescu check it out,they killed another muslim guy. is this allowed ?!
21:01 decimation !up pete_dushenski
21:01 decimation !up decimation
21:02 pete_dushenski ty!
21:02 decimation we are in jungle mode
21:02 pete_dushenski hm so it seems
21:02 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu that is/are correction, where was that from? i couldn't place it
21:03 mircea_popescu http://www.contravex.com/2014/10/02/thank-your-lucky-trolls/ ?
21:03 assbot Thank Your Lucky Trolls | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1BJSGti )
21:04 pete_dushenski a merci!
21:06 pete_dushenski corrigé!
21:06 pete_dushenski some new material: http://www.contravex.com/2015/01/07/some-people-can-retire-and-some-people-cant-a-story-about-carrots/
21:06 assbot Some people can retire and some people can’t: A story about carrots. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1xH5PUO )
21:06 pete_dushenski http://www.contravex.com/2015/01/08/its-called-the-soviet-harvard-illusion-for-a-reason-and-that-reason-is-joshua-greene/
21:06 assbot It’s called the Soviet-HARVARD illusion for a reason and that reason is Joshua Greene. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1xH5UI9 )
21:06 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the russian guy's wrong in pretty much all the particulars. they ran into tons of police. http://www.liberation.fr/societe/2015/01/07/attaque-contre-charlie-hebdo-ce-que-l-on-sait_1175371
21:06 assbot Il est 11h30, deux hommes tirent «en rafale» dans «Charlie Hebdo» - Libération ... ( http://bit.ly/1xH5Xnb )
21:07 * asciilifeform was not there and did not count the police.
21:08 mircea_popescu «face aux préjugés, l'importance de se réunir» commie president is at least retarded.
21:08 mircea_popescu hey, prejudice exists specifically because you're "reunited".
21:12 asciilifeform 'Here is a question for Minister Stoltenberg: Do appeals to (and enforcement of) tolerance make repeats of such incidents more frequent or less frequent, and, if so, why?' (old orlov article, http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2012/07/politics-of-unconscious.html )
21:12 assbot ClubOrlov: Politics of the Unconscious ... ( http://bit.ly/1BJU2nP )
21:13 mircea_popescu i dunno dood. do appeals to "ignore" the crying child rather than smack him over the head make crying children less common or more common ?
21:13 pete_dushenski hey, prejudice exists specifically because you're "reunited". << heh. i made a similar point in the soviet-harvard article
21:14 pete_dushenski basically, pluralistic/cosmopolitan cities are fashions, not some morally superior imperative
21:14 mircea_popescu who's joshua greene \again ?
21:14 pete_dushenski they can work, but not by default
21:14 mircea_popescu that's a good point.
21:14 pete_dushenski "Professor of Psychology and Director of the Moral Cognition Lab at Harvard University"
21:15 mircea_popescu also, they can not work without well organised oppression.
21:15 mircea_popescu heh mkay.
21:15 asciilifeform see turkish example for how.
21:16 pete_dushenski sure, the point being that there are an infinite number of ways they cannot work, and a few that they can
21:16 mircea_popescu sure.
21:16 pete_dushenski but the solutions involve, yes, strong leadership
21:16 pete_dushenski and also modification of the physical environment
21:16 mircea_popescu i really like these "academics" whose contribution to the world consists on "this model is supported by the fact that brain area activation"
21:16 mircea_popescu phrenology 2.0
21:16 pete_dushenski not, as greene suggests, with typical progressive socialist lenses, "improving out thinking"
21:16 mircea_popescu at least the computing turdmeisters don't (yet) prove systemd superiority by photographic cpus with tomograph units
21:17 mircea_popescu photographing*
21:17 pete_dushenski lol "the picture tells us..."
21:17 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the 'brain activation' folks are simply a somewhat more 'photogenic' version of the rest of usg academia, where virtually every physical science 'result', almost without exception, concerns some spurious correlation of this and that
21:17 pete_dushenski they're far better served "reading" mattise than body scans
21:18 asciilifeform at least the computing turdmeisters don't (yet) prove systemd superiority by photograph << actually.
21:18 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i guess.
21:18 mircea_popescu i get really indignant when marketeers try to sell spuriousness,
21:18 mircea_popescu but in fact all of academia does it, for much more money.
21:18 pete_dushenski and for "les prix"
21:19 pete_dushenski like kim jong un's generals
21:19 asciilifeform i make regular trips to my university maths/physical sciences library. there is a substantial comp-sci/discretes section there. i pull out, seriously, a book, one in three, random page - a graph. for almost precisely this, the comparison between the warm and the soft.
21:19 mircea_popescu nah, themarketing cocksuckers give themselves tons of trophies
21:19 mircea_popescu it's like porn minus the lube, seriously.
21:19 asciilifeform great heuristic for what not to bother flipping through, but very frustrating re: how much space these take up on the shelves.
21:19 pete_dushenski sounds... burny
21:20 asciilifeform ('graph' of the microshit office, 'comparison of efficiencies', vs graph theoretic kind)
21:21 scoopbot New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/01/paypal-australia-regulate-bitcoin-businesses-not-individuals/
21:22 mircea_popescu this discussion is reminding mircea_popescu to go check on the "oh, we are economists, looking before we leap, there's a small minority disagreeing" crowd
21:25 mircea_popescu lmao -dev is almost as retarded as the forum by now.
21:25 mircea_popescu dgenr8how about using the world's biggest bloom filter to prevent address reuse? it wouldn't add much to storage requirements
21:25 mircea_popescu blockbitsCan't wait until we have 20MB blocks. I've developed a easy to use web front-end for people to upload files to the blockchain, using scriptsigs to store data. they can retrieve files by simply pasting any TX. I've put aside a few hundreds thousand dollars to pay mining pools to mine my non-standard tx's for free. I was hoping we can increase the block size to 200MB... please make it as big as possible, my dat
21:25 mircea_popescu a storage busin
21:25 mircea_popescu etc,
21:26 pete_dushenski lol!
21:27 pete_dushenski maybe we should also make mining free, and use the scrypt fairness algorithm
21:27 pete_dushenski http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/07/technology/intel-budgets-300-million-for-diversity.html?_r=2 << more lulz
21:27 assbot Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1BJWkU1 )
21:27 pete_dushenski because that's what profit is for, reinvestment
21:27 pete_dushenski ... in diversity
21:27 BingoBoingo Seriously though what is this forced prevention of address reuse bullshit. Spz I recieve at address, spend from and input there, happen to recieve there again... Anything that prevents spending the later balances recieved is an attack.
21:29 mircea_popescu meanwhile, gavin hasn't been on #bitcoin-dev in the past two weeks, and was mentioned maybe a coupla times in the interval.
21:30 mircea_popescu methinks the fake foundation derps are having a serious palatial moment these days.
21:30 BingoBoingo bitcoin-dev exists better as a mailing list anyways.
21:30 pete_dushenski palatial moment?
21:30 BingoBoingo !up ziishu
21:30 mircea_popescu curious what shall come out of this.
21:30 BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: You know from that movie plot Mp mposted to trilema
21:30 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski you know when the retarded horse discovers that the pigs are actually having fun in the pig room ?
21:31 ziishu greetings, any change of a bb wager for blockchain hardfork
21:31 ziishu chance*
21:31 mircea_popescu why not ? spec it.
21:31 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu BingoBoingo i see i have some reading to catch up on :)
21:31 BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: http://trilema.com/2014/the-idea-for-a-great-film/
21:31 assbot The idea for a great film... pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1xHa9DA )
21:31 ziishu lazy :) I was just thinking it would be a good idea
21:31 mircea_popescu sure lol.
21:32 * mircea_popescu reads bb's link to see what this is!
21:32 mircea_popescu oh. that also works lol.
21:32 pete_dushenski i actually read that one!
21:32 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Emperor Eunuch and the Barbarians
21:32 * pete_dushenski thinks mp and bb are thinking of different articles
21:33 mircea_popescu but i was thinking more of the moment when the color revolutionaries discxover their leader is really a sort of adonis.
21:34 BingoBoingo That one's just my default thought when MP says palace or palatial, because we all know MP prefers a bunch of apartments spread around town to a single palace. Decentralize all of the residence!!!
21:34 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski i was refering to animal farm.
21:34 mircea_popescu you know when the "guard of the revolution" discovers that their supreme leader isn't really into the revolution at all ? that thing.
21:34 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu aha yes
21:35 mircea_popescu palatial moment. when the derps in -dev discover that well... gavin isn't really into bitcoin.
21:35 assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/09Z19TD.txt )
21:35 BingoBoingo !b 3
21:35 mircea_popescu painful times.
21:35 pete_dushenski i only saw the play. and while it was a splendid rendition, it was also some time ago. but i gets it nao!
21:36 pete_dushenski anways, i must sadly depart. good evening to all!
21:36 mircea_popescu if you've seen american century x, there's that moment when norton's character finds out the old dude was really in prison for fraud.
21:36 BingoBoingo And yet... the noise does not abate, but grows, and as it grows there's silence growing in the great hall too, under the marble arches, over the limpid pools. The emperor bids his guests eat, but they swallow knots, he bids them merry, but the one courtly concubine that starts to talk, trying to tell a joke, runs hoarse. And then, a centurion busts in, a different sort of man. Rugged, bearded, covered in soot and dried blood, he
21:36 BingoBoingo screams that the West gate fell, and this is the last hour.
21:37 mircea_popescu ahh, gripping huh.
21:38 BingoBoingo Basically the story of everyone finding about Roger Ver's firecrackers and Uncle Shrem's bong.
21:38 mircea_popescu well, i dunno how many people were seriously taking ver for some sort of leader.
21:39 mircea_popescu maybe, i guess.
21:41 BingoBoingo I dun imagine too many people of the kind in a position to support a leader. Still hurts when Ver blows his credibility on Gox's final days giving the scammer crowd room to pretend ther are Bitcoin 'Murica old hands.
21:41 mircea_popescu is a point.
21:43 BingoBoingo I mean fucking Jared Kenna having a renaissance and Homero Garza stepping in fresh off of ripping some New England mountain towns for WiFi?
21:44 mircea_popescu heh.
21:44 BingoBoingo !up PeterL
21:44 PeterL thanks
21:44 BingoBoingo I mean even matonis seems kind of repentant about getting hooked into playing with Vessenes
~ 17 minutes ~
22:02 BingoBoingo !up WolfGoethe
22:02 WolfGoethe hello
22:02 BingoBoingo Hello. Any thoughts on events that have transpired since your last visit?
22:04 WolfGoethe events?
22:04 WolfGoethe the dropping of the price?
22:05 PeterL when was your last visit?
22:05 WolfGoethe month or two ago
22:05 BingoBoingo Well, that or ButtStamp. Or any number of things.
22:06 WolfGoethe no idea about bitstamp or paycoin
22:06 WolfGoethe i have been pondering the possiblity of banker meddling in the bitcoin price
22:06 BingoBoingo Well, dollars are cheap
22:06 mircea_popescu lol
22:07 BingoBoingo "Buy high, sell low" works for oil
22:07 WolfGoethe clearly they are attacking gold and silver desperate to keep the dollar high, they attacked the russian economy by working with opec to lower oil prices
22:07 mircea_popescu i always thought WolfGoethe = vexual
22:07 WolfGoethe not too far out of scope to see them messing with bitcoin just to keep the lid on how worthless the dollar is
22:07 BingoBoingo Why work with all of Opec when you can just deal with the House of Saud's gerontocracy and that rogue state of North Dakota?
22:07 PeterL who is "them"?
22:07 WolfGoethe also if Russia answered their attack with chinese help we could very easily have $1,000,000 bitcoin in a month
22:08 mircea_popescu PeterL the lizard tribe doh.
22:08 mircea_popescu WolfGoethe no because captain planet would intervene.
22:08 WolfGoethe the house of Saud is a completely controlled puppet government yes
22:08 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: The reptilians. The DDoS people ruined the lizard word like all marketers do.
22:08 BingoBoingo WolfGoethe: Nah, it is just old.
22:08 mircea_popescu i think the reptilians are just a ruse.
22:09 mircea_popescu i mean sure, they did wtc, but what've they done for us since ?
22:09 WolfGoethe i do not want to get into the spiritual stuff, as that is way to deep for most folks
22:09 BingoBoingo Patriot act?
22:09 WolfGoethe clearly all this has spiritual roots, only an intergenrational intelligence and master arcitect could have perverted everything 180 degrees
22:10 mircea_popescu the meta dougornay ?!
22:10 mircea_popescu (it only rhymes with nowai because it's true)
22:11 WolfGoethe i really think bitcoin could spike to a million bucks if Putin worked with China to answer the us economic attack. putin could just say he refuses to pay back their loans because of the sanctions and he could ask china to call in their us debt... the fed could just print cash to buy it up... but if china sold that debt to foreign governments... the fed could NOT print foreign currency.. so... overnight the dollar would collapse... not a shot
22:11 WolfGoethe fired
22:11 WolfGoethe Putin doesn;t wanna go there tho. he is sitting back
22:11 BingoBoingo WolfGoethe: Why would they fire though before USMS "auctions" the last silk road parcel.
22:11 mircea_popescu it all depends on cuba
22:12 BingoBoingo repost from earlier http://media.bnd.com/smedia/2014/12/19/06/56/1jjiYD.AuSt.98.jpg
22:12 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Au9iIL )
22:12 WolfGoethe cuba sold putin out, the idiots... they will get a color revolution soon. the moment fidel dies
22:12 mircea_popescu color red ?
22:12 WolfGoethe the usa wants to hit russia and china first with a nuke attack before they get their mutual defense up
22:12 BingoBoingo No entirely right. Obama surrendered to Raoul Castro.
22:12 WolfGoethe obama surrendered???
22:13 BingoBoingo To Cuba.
22:13 WolfGoethe what? are you being sarcastic?
22:13 BingoBoingo Why would USSA. USSA first strike would require just about all of the H-bombs that still work.
22:13 BingoBoingo Not at all.
22:13 mircea_popescu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOR38552MJA
22:13 assbot Blame Canada - South Park: Bigger Longer & Uncut (3/9) Movie CLIP (1999) HD - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Au9urm )
22:13 WolfGoethe the usa mvoed in because cuba and russia were getting to close. putin foragev 32 billion bucks of cuba debt.. and wanted a prescense on the island
22:13 WolfGoethe this was a geopolitical move to cut russia off
22:14 WolfGoethe their goal is to cut off venezula and the bolivarian revolution and then encircle brazil
22:14 WolfGoethe this is geopolitics 101 not complciated
22:14 BingoBoingo WolfGoethe: No. It was to appeal to the democratic base lest 'Murica's other socialist party do it in 2017.
22:14 WolfGoethe .... boingo.. r u serious?
22:15 WolfGoethe lol.. ok brah.. yeah.. thats the ticket
22:15 WolfGoethe i am a fool
22:15 WolfGoethe thinking it had something to do with russia and full spectrum domiannce
22:15 WolfGoethe it is just so obama can get some mo votes for his pal... hilary
22:15 WolfGoethe lol
22:15 BingoBoingo Yeah, Obama has sold a large part of America's electorate on Cuban style socialism and he want's to let them know he's stronger than the R-socialist party to making friends with cuba
22:15 mircea_popescu anyway, this has been good enough for nao.
22:18 BingoBoingo Well, it's the sort of diversion gossipd will render largely irrelevant.
22:19 BingoBoingo The burden of impressing to get a connect to a gossipd node for the casual I imagine will be much higher than getting a !up nao.
22:19 mircea_popescu prolly depends where
22:19 mircea_popescu im sure there's going to be skankier nodes
22:20 mircea_popescu actually thinking of it... cautions will probably be common.
22:20 mircea_popescu "pay me 1 btc, if youdon't say anything stupid for a whole month you get it back"
22:20 BingoBoingo Prolly. It's just this increment voice evolution seems to be proceeding at a humanly sane pace.
22:20 mircea_popescu mhm
22:21 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> "pay me 1 btc, if youdon't say anything stupid for a whole month you get it back" << The way I understand gossipd... fair collateral seems closer to 15-20 BTC
22:21 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13250 @ 0.00065884 = 8.7296 BTC [+] {2}
22:22 asciilifeform "pay me 1 btc, if youdon't say anything stupid for a whole month you get it back << perfectly happy to run a blockchain telegraph gateway.
22:22 mircea_popescu well... there's going to be skankier nodes
22:22 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11704 @ 0.00066806 = 7.819 BTC [+] {3}
22:22 mircea_popescu asciilifeform how do you mean ?
22:22 BingoBoingo A current trust slut doesn't have the gossipd burden of getting its owner's actual orfices pounded.
22:23 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: as described in my article by the same name
22:23 * mircea_popescu wonders how the artifexd residence looks.
22:23 mircea_popescu piles of scribbled notes and thrown matter
22:23 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i got that part. but the relation ?
22:23 artifexd nope
22:23 mircea_popescu o hai
22:24 BingoBoingo !up PeterL
22:24 PeterL ok, I think I got it working again: http://bablogs.btcscoop.com
22:24 assbot #bitcoin-assets blog posts ... ( http://bit.ly/1wWqSO7 )
22:24 artifexd My woman keeps the place in excellent order.
22:24 mircea_popescu props to her
22:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ah, simply suggesting that one could allow folks to speak on a cell by blocktelegraphing in
22:24 mircea_popescu cool PeterL
22:25 PeterL but it seems to be missing trilema posts.
22:25 mircea_popescu sooo... tat gave up his blog too ?
22:26 PeterL which is tat?
22:26 BingoBoingo http://devilsadvocate.biz/ << TaT'
22:27 assbot The Devil's Advocate | Telling it like it might be. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Aubpfs )
22:27 asciilifeform gave up << it seems to still be there ?
22:27 nubbins` PeterL tat was the neobee guy.
22:27 mircea_popescu PeterL yeah nothing from trilema, how come ?
22:28 mircea_popescu asciilifeform october ?
22:28 PeterL I seem to be getting an error trying to process unicode characters in python
22:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: mine - june!
22:28 nubbins` PeterL he ran a bunch of passthroughs and other sucker games on the various scamsites before retiring
22:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: and there are many gaps at least that long
22:29 mircea_popescu aha
22:29 mircea_popescu im more of a daily sort of guy
22:29 BingoBoingo https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6zBy9lCYAIX9pP.jpg
22:29 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1AubGPL )
22:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12550 @ 0.00067067 = 8.4169 BTC [+] {2}
22:31 decimation PeterL: unicode is kinda gay
22:31 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: speaking of which, whatever happed to the marvelous british invention of the 'pig burial' ?
22:31 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Very good question.
22:32 ben_vulpes <mircea_popescu> sooo... apparently "text" mysql blobs are limited to 65535 characters ? << perhaps someday consider the use of the alien technology "postgresql"
22:32 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes for wordpress ?
22:33 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: can't see why not.
22:33 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I hear it can be forced.
22:33 mircea_popescu all this stemmed from hanbot's comment on the gossipd article which was supposed to be like 120kb.
22:33 mircea_popescu why not ? because i won't fucking rewrite wordpress wtf.
22:34 ben_vulpes lord wordpress needs a rewriting to work with other databaxen?
22:34 mircea_popescu i am sure.
22:35 asciilifeform http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/57793 << related
22:35 assbot Swine: Secret Weapon Against Islamic Terror? - Inside Israel - News - Arutz Sheva ... ( http://bit.ly/1wWs9Vm )
22:35 artifexd The simple solution would be to alter the table to change the column type from TEXT to LONGTEXT. That will give you 2**32 characters of space
22:35 BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: There are tales of WP working with Postgre and others in off the shelf configuration, much as there are sightings of a loch ness monster with feathers.
22:35 mircea_popescu PeterL what unicode does trilema spit out that chokes your script ?
22:36 mircea_popescu artifexd it got changed to something like that but a diff name
22:36 asciilifeform http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/32749#.VK37NHW9_fs << ru pigburial
22:36 assbot Chechen Terrorists to be Buried in Pigskin - Latest News Briefs - Arutz Sheva ... ( http://bit.ly/1wWsjMw )
22:36 ben_vulpes wai
22:36 ben_vulpes wai web so shit
22:36 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/britain-first-extremists-plot-pig-burial-halt-controversial-dudley-mega-mosque-1474294
22:36 assbot Britain First Extremists Plot Pig Burial to Halt Controversial Dudley Mega Mosque ... ( http://bit.ly/1wWsnMn )
22:36 PeterL just a sec, let me find it again
22:37 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: slightly different gambit there
22:38 mircea_popescu "Britain First represents everything we disagree with and they represent the worst of all worlds, by putting on a patriotic face while promulgating division."
22:38 asciilifeform https://github.com/luanjunyi/gossipd << lol
22:38 assbot luanjunyi/gossipd · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1wWsNlN )
22:38 mircea_popescu gotta be unionized!
22:39 mircea_popescu "Gossipd is an implementation of MQTT 3.1 broker written in Go. MQTT is an excellent protocal for mobile messaging."
22:39 mircea_popescu sounds like it went faor
22:40 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7650 @ 0.00067017 = 5.1268 BTC [-]
22:45 BingoBoingo !up PeterL
22:53 decimation asciilifeform: you might find this amusing http://www.myhdl.org/
22:53 assbot MyHDL ... ( http://bit.ly/1wWw6tj )
22:57 undata decimation: here have this https://node-os.com/
22:57 assbot Node OS ... ( http://bit.ly/1AufJLV )
22:58 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7080 @ 0.00021001 = 1.4869 BTC [+] {3}
22:58 BingoBoingo WHY!!!!!
22:59 BingoBoingo "Let's do Google's Android, but somehow make it suck MOARRRR!!!!!"
22:59 decimation lol nodejs
22:59 undata it's that imitative mind
23:00 decimation node.js is run by that joyent mafia
23:00 undata JS is widespread, therefore good. Operating Systems are hard and people who make them are well known. I should sculpt my one shitty skill into hardthing and be well known.
23:01 BingoBoingo Knife is hard, but ribmeat is soft!!!
23:02 decimation http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-12-2014#946746 < node.js, etc
23:02 assbot Logged on 06-12-2014 02:50:54; decimation: apparently they kicked the guy off the project because of his refusal to commit a pronoun patch
23:03 BingoBoingo ^ 4d26f9ff93d05876c1cd67dfc27de7b925949274
23:07 undata already handled in logs, but ye gods the bile it summons
23:07 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30299 @ 0.00065177 = 19.748 BTC [-] {3}
23:07 * undata goes back to poking his own web monstrosity with a stick
23:07 BingoBoingo https://twitter.com/BBoingo/status/553040022631632896
23:07 assbot Reply to /izakaminska Financial Times blog post on Bitstamp hack.http://t.co/CpzamTHqm1/hashtag/bitcoin?src=hash /hashtag/bitstamp?src=hash /hashtag/crypto?src=hash
23:08 BingoBoingo undata: I count this past new years as successful as I fot to see my bile on January second. That means this is going to be a fun year.
23:08 undata groundhog day at the vomitorium?
23:09 BingoBoingo undata: Except actually ahs indicative power in my experience.
23:10 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Apparently something unfortunate happened to your neighbors during their game of "almost golf" https://twitter.com/IllinoisLoyalty/status/553040601542053889/photo/1
23:10 assbot http://t.co/LmDnn6XL0j
23:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16594 @ 0.00064096 = 10.6361 BTC [-]
23:18 BingoBoingo !up cardigm
23:18 BingoBoingo Hello cardigm
23:18 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00063672 = 11.1426 BTC [-] {3}
23:21 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i must confess that i do not know how, and with what, the game of 'almost golf' is played; or how it relates to what is happening in the photo.
23:22 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: So You take a bunch of people, 5 on the field of paly at a time. Goal is putting a bouncy ball through a hoop of fixed height.
23:23 asciilifeform lol
23:23 BingoBoingo The major advantage in playing the game comes from a player being as close to the hoop's height as possible.
23:23 * asciilifeform would prefer to see the aztec 'basketball'
23:23 mod6 yeah, with the hoop on the side.
23:23 mod6 and a ball of stone
23:24 mod6 murder-ball
23:24 asciilifeform by some account, not stone
23:24 mod6 ah. maybe a stuffed goat bladder or something
23:24 asciilifeform head of captain of former champion team.
23:24 * BingoBoingo actuall prefers American football for the ways it stays truer to the spirit of indigenous sports.
23:24 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30350 @ 0.00063289 = 19.2082 BTC [-] {2}
23:25 mod6 modern american football is a joke compared to what it used to be, its basically unwatchable these days.
23:26 BingoBoingo mod6: NFL, totally unwatchable. College game. This bowl season a coach broke his nose. Running back shat his pants... and these were the more normal anomalies.
23:26 mod6 yeah, college is better. the plays they do are "creative" too.
23:26 mod6 hockey is about all i can really get into as far as pro sports.
23:28 mod6 lol, did you see Chris Christie during the Cowboys/Lions game? DEEERRRP
23:28 BingoBoingo Hockey and Baseball are the pro sports I watch.
23:28 BingoBoingo Nah
23:28 BingoBoingo NFL. Did not watch.
23:28 mod6 omg. it was embarassing
23:29 mod6 but ya, the NFL is just brutal. its an abortion of what it used to be 25+ years ago
23:31 mod6 are you a blues fan?
23:33 BingoBoingo mod6: Nominally. I like hockey in the way that I'd rather see a good game than follow a team.
23:33 mod6 werd
23:34 mod6 blues have been a good team for last number of years.
23:34 BingoBoingo Baseball, I get territorial.
23:34 mod6 cards fan 'eh :)
23:34 BingoBoingo Blues have always hovered somewhere between making the playoffs and missing a championship.
23:35 BingoBoingo Cards though... Imma give Matheney all of the explatives for only making the playoffs.
23:35 mod6 Remember when they had Brett Hull? They were pretty good back then too.
23:35 BingoBoingo !matheney
23:35 BingoBoingo mod6: They were
23:35 BingoBoingo Had Gretsky too for a time
23:35 mod6 that's right!
23:36 BingoBoingo mod6: Even mircea_popescu Hates matheney's coaching though http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2014#543439
23:36 assbot Logged on 03-03-2014 22:19:37; mircea_popescu: matheny needs to be out of a job.
23:37 BingoBoingo This was back when Carlos Martinez's twitter account consisted of a wall of vaginas he'd enjoyed
23:37 mod6 haha.
23:37 mod6 the Twins finally ditched Gardy.
23:38 mod6 a likeable guy, but just lost control of that team a few years back.
23:38 BingoBoingo I saw. Chicago Cunts changed managers yet again too.
23:38 mod6 ya
23:38 BingoBoingo Cubs hired the guy who used to coach in the #BitcoinBowl stadium
23:39 mod6 the Twins built that Target field for $1bn bezzle bucks. and if you step outside to smoke the fascist asswads wont let you re-enter.
23:40 BingoBoingo They let you re-enter at Busch Stadium built with mostly private money...
23:40 BingoBoingo Because the Los Angeles Rams fucked over the StL teams
23:41 mod6 They let you re-enter at Fenway too.
23:41 mod6 and they sell some killer brats. and old guys walk around and sell hot cups of "clamchowdah"
23:42 mod6 'GET YA HOT CHOWDAH!'
23:42 BingoBoingo When I go to the cards games most I eat there is a hot dog. Gotta make hose $6 beers work.
23:43 mod6 yeah, lol. they're like $8 or something at Target field. its bananas. mind as well get a mixed drink.
23:44 BingoBoingo Oh, mixed drinks at Busch cost nothing less than rape.
23:44 mod6 haha. they grape you in the mouth 'eh
23:44 BingoBoingo !s molina
23:44 assbot 9 results for 'molina' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=molina
23:44 mod6 *bloop* irssi just told me that i've passed my #b-a byte allotment for the year.
23:45 mod6 :D
23:45 BingoBoingo Happens
23:46 BingoBoingo Even MP has an idea of Yadi http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2014#540564 that is true sports celebrity http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-03-2014#540564
23:46 assbot Logged on 01-03-2014 18:16:44; mircea_popescu: so which'd be the yadier-molina-est guy in that pic ?
23:46 assbot Logged on 01-03-2014 18:16:44; mircea_popescu: so which'd be the yadier-molina-est guy in that pic ?
23:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22386 @ 0.00064692 = 14.482 BTC [+] {3}
23:47 mod6 ah
23:47 mod6 yeah.
23:48 BingoBoingo Like every winning team the Cardinals preach family values when called for yet shank people in the alley when necessary.
23:49 BingoBoingo !up cardigm
23:49 mod6 heheh
23:50 mod6 i was following the twins closer until a certain $100M player came down with "bi-lateral leg weakness"
23:50 mod6 it's like $100M!?
23:50 BingoBoingo One economic problem I will never get is dual sports players in college declaring for the NFL draft and skipping the MLB draft (looking at you rapin Jaimis)
23:52 BingoBoingo For the average to exceptional player the NFL offers more moneyper year over less years, while MLB offers more total money over a longer period of time.
23:52 BingoBoingo SOme serious cult mentality there.
23:52 mod6 ya.
23:53 mod6 sports would be better if these knuckleheads just had to play for their meal ticket
23:53 mod6 and "glory" or w/e
23:54 BingoBoingo Or if they'd think economically. Bo Jackson could have had another decade of professional playing time... If he didn't let the NFL cripple his body.
23:54 mod6 Bo Jackson was awesome.
23:54 BingoBoingo Indeed
23:55 mod6 I think i have a rookie card of his somehwere around here.
23:55 * BingoBoingo is kind of aggrevied Mussina didn't make the HOF this year in spite of inventing much of contemporary successful pitching.
23:57 mod6 think they'll ever give in and let Rose into the HOF?
23:58 BingoBoingo Eventually, probably on a reconcilliation ballot or some shit. I don't see a need for them to though. Their denial has only made his legend stronger.
23:59 mod6 How is it that MLB is regulated by Congress?
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