Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2015-06-23 | 2015-06-25 →
00:03 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80506 @ 0.00041514 = 33.4213 BTC [-]
00:10 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70329 @ 0.00040621 = 28.5683 BTC [-]
00:18 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00040657 = 12.807 BTC [+]
00:22 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84800 @ 0.00040408 = 34.266 BTC [-] {2}
~ 27 minutes ~
00:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52500 @ 0.00039714 = 20.8499 BTC [-] {2}
~ 28 minutes ~
01:18 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75300 @ 0.00039377 = 29.6509 BTC [-]
01:28 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 106950 @ 0.00040878 = 43.719 BTC [+] {2}
01:34 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75300 @ 0.00040534 = 30.5221 BTC [-]
~ 26 minutes ~
02:00 phf hello, i had some free time so i built bitcoind with patches up to "ver 5_4" on os x 10.8
02:00 phf it's doing all the right things, i.e. wouldn't connect until explicitly given addnode, discurding bastard blocks, hovering at 62mb. block count 129821 right now
02:00 phf can anyone confirm that this looks like a complete list of patches to date http://paste.lisp.org/display/150429? (afaik those marked as U have been rejected on ml)
02:00 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1LAxifh )
02:13 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40965 @ 0.00040534 = 16.6048 BTC [-]
02:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59850 @ 0.00041015 = 24.5475 BTC [+] {4}
02:19 BingoBoingo Oh phuctor passed a million moduli http://nosuchlabs.com/stats
02:33 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49300 @ 0.0004008 = 19.7594 BTC [-] {2}
02:34 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41800 @ 0.00039344 = 16.4458 BTC [-]
02:34 BingoBoingo phf: It doesn't look wrong
~ 16 minutes ~
02:50 BingoBoingo Commenters need to step the game up http://qntra.net/2015/04/obama-orders-war-on-computing-and-bitcoin-with-new-emergency-order-full-text/#comment-28596
02:50 assbot Obama Orders War On Computing And Bitcoin With New "Emergency" Order (Full Text) | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gygv8r )
02:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58332 @ 0.00041271 = 24.0742 BTC [+]
02:58 BingoBoingo http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/former-white-house-chef-walter-scheib-drowned-accidental-death-autopsy-n380636
02:58 assbot Former White House Chef Walter Scheib Drowned in Accidental Death: Autopsy - NBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1GygRMj )
02:58 BingoBoingo ^ For the nailgun chronicles
03:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116900 @ 0.0003968 = 46.3859 BTC [-] {3}
03:14 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 112850 @ 0.00041425 = 46.7481 BTC [+] {2}
03:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00041737 = 4.3406 BTC [+]
~ 20 minutes ~
03:46 punkman http://1g1uem2nc4jy1gzhn943ro0gz50.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/retention_graph_average.png
03:46 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1FAqQj7 )
03:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 164850 @ 0.0003948 = 65.0828 BTC [-] {2}
03:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 244489 @ 0.00041601 = 101.7099 BTC [+] {4}
~ 21 minutes ~
04:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 120900 @ 0.00040884 = 49.4288 BTC [-]
04:24 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61100 @ 0.00042029 = 25.6797 BTC [+] {2}
04:31 cazalla looks like google has shitcanned confederate flags https://www.google.com.au/webhp?&gfe_rd=cr&ei=rGqKVbPaEcf98wedmIHwDg#q=confederate+flag&tbm=shop
04:31 assbot Google ... ( http://bit.ly/1KbZCr7 )
~ 29 minutes ~
05:01 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41750 @ 0.00041219 = 17.2089 BTC [-]
05:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24000 @ 0.00041835 = 10.0404 BTC [+]
~ 41 minutes ~
05:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 83249 @ 0.00041835 = 34.8272 BTC [+]
~ 19 minutes ~
06:07 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69200 @ 0.00041305 = 28.5831 BTC [-] {3}
06:14 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 154900 @ 0.000423 = 65.5227 BTC [+] {4}
06:18 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 103400 @ 0.00042664 = 44.1146 BTC [+] {2}
~ 26 minutes ~
06:45 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47900 @ 0.00041344 = 19.8038 BTC [-]
06:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 148074 @ 0.00041362 = 61.2464 BTC [+] {2}
06:52 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51447 @ 0.0004274 = 21.9884 BTC [+] {2}
06:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 190603 @ 0.00042824 = 81.6238 BTC [+]
06:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38438 @ 0.00042824 = 16.4607 BTC [+]
~ 16 minutes ~
07:11 cazalla BingoBoingo, looks like they finally had the coins made one of your articles mentiond a few months back http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11694838/Islamic-State-mints-its-own-Islamic-Dinar-coins.html
07:11 assbot Islamic State mints its own 'Islamic Dinar' coins - Telegraph ... ( http://bit.ly/1SJsZCJ )
07:14 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52500 @ 0.00042676 = 22.4049 BTC [-]
07:22 mircea_popescu <BingoBoingo> Oh phuctor passed a million moduli http://nosuchlabs.com/stats << age, cave, tace!
07:22 mircea_popescu 500mn digits worth of P too.
07:26 jurov did anyone with phuctored key write to you?
07:27 mircea_popescu at least a coupla wrote to me to derp, back during the slashdot censorship days
07:28 mircea_popescu punkman1 i'm frankly surprised at the hefty chunk left in the 90 days range. i think that graph is bogus, and the real graph is a lot more like f'(x) = f(x)^3.something, where we take probabilities as from 0 to 1.
07:29 mircea_popescu cazalla aww i was looking for a "as BingoBoingo said...". shame on 'em.
07:32 mircea_popescu and what a shitty design.
07:33 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 107860 @ 0.00042756 = 46.1166 BTC [+] {2}
07:34 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45682 @ 0.00042853 = 19.5761 BTC [+] {2}
07:35 mircea_popescu "Councillor Karen Danczuk, wife of Labour MP for Rochdale, Simon, has been tweeting selfies that show her cleavage. The 31-year-old councillor for Kingsway, who also runs a deli with her husband, has uploaded photos of her cleavage in a bikini and another of her bare legs."
07:35 mircea_popescu o noes, the bare legs of some rural wench. england prevails!
07:39 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 223000 @ 0.00041603 = 92.7747 BTC [-] {3}
07:43 mircea_popescu "With its subversive political allegory - including a terrorist as the leading man - and clear-cut leftist sensibilities, V for Vendetta is the kind of movie that the conservative right will have a field day with."
07:43 mircea_popescu ahahaha WUT.
07:43 mircea_popescu check it out, idiots imagine everything that happens is by idiots, about idiots, for idiots.
07:43 mircea_popescu such a novel development.
07:47 mircea_popescu more on point, http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2010/11/kevin-deanna-england-prevails/
07:47 assbot England Prevails | The Occidental Observer - White Identity, Interests, and Culture ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kckoqx )
07:47 mircea_popescu "The problem, of course, is that this is also the United Kingdom in the world we live in right now."
07:47 mircea_popescu nazi[onal] socialism being, of course, just another socialism.
07:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102900 @ 0.00041892 = 43.1069 BTC [+]
08:01 cazalla so where are the pics?
08:02 cazalla http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article4307576.ece/ALTERNATES/s1227b/Karen-Danczuk.jpg
08:02 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1KcmgQc )
08:04 cazalla and another https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHrrhMDWEAAFx5u.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CG_NXShXAAA9Hs8.jpg
08:04 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1GpDe7r )
08:04 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1GpDe7v )
08:05 jurov anime fangirls would kill for these eyes
08:05 cazalla she appears to be posting more pics in response to that article.. https://twitter.com/KarenDanczuk/media
08:05 assbot Photos et vidéos de Karen Danczuk (@KarenDanczuk) | Twitter ... ( http://bit.ly/1GpDl2O )
08:07 cazalla mircea_popescu, i forgot to ask.. did the spammer login with the password or hammer login with various passwords until he got in?
08:07 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 73273 @ 0.00040923 = 29.9855 BTC [-] {2}
08:07 mircea_popescu the latter. there's two different things killing you if you try too many times.
08:08 mircea_popescu from the logs, at some random point he just shows up, logs in and fills my buffers.
08:08 mircea_popescu jurov right huh.
08:08 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146077 @ 0.00040723 = 59.4869 BTC [-] {2}
~ 20 minutes ~
08:28 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48600 @ 0.00041171 = 20.0091 BTC [+]
08:32 funkenstein_ https://mrtalented.wordpress.com/
08:32 assbot Mr. Talented | 🇺🇸 America has taught Me that each Human being has 36,000 days to do something extraordinary. In less than 2,000 days, I've independently launched a start-up, wrote a book, obtained celebrity contacts & most importantly reached YOU. Here's my business card: MrTalented.org 30-sec ... ( http://bit.ly/1HgcObW )
08:33 funkenstein_ blogger claims feelings matter, doesn't know travel or whores exist, kills self
08:39 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 140122 @ 0.00041511 = 58.166 BTC [+] {2}
08:39 cazalla "Everyday people hurt my feelings and its not fair. " lol k
08:40 mircea_popescu nuts.
08:40 mircea_popescu mr talented is now my an hero.
08:42 cazalla damn, he was 0 for 1500 with asian women
08:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38074 @ 0.00040388 = 15.3773 BTC [-] {2}
08:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 90961 @ 0.00040165 = 36.5345 BTC [-]
~ 17 minutes ~
09:04 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-06-2015#1174018 << he did speak of wanting wife, not whores..
09:04 assbot Logged on 24-06-2015 12:33:27; funkenstein_: blogger claims feelings matter, doesn't know travel or whores exist, kills self
09:06 funkenstein_ asciilifform, good point
09:07 funkenstein_ despite his inability to adjust strategy, he has 1) identified a common stupidity 2) taken action
09:08 asciilifeform wai wut
09:08 funkenstein_ i grasp at straws here this morning
09:09 asciilifeform http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/man-wanted-attacks-asian-women-found-hanging-reports-article-1.2267393 << claims - him
09:09 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HgkPxJ )
09:13 funkenstein_ Next time, Teach English in Guangzhou
09:14 asciilifeform http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/wrongly-convicted-inmate-spend-1-weekend-prison-article-1.2248022 << other lulz from same fishwrap
09:14 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1GpMPuT )
09:18 asciilifeform http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/police-japan-seize-shoes-sold-upskirt-cameras-article-1.1950476
09:18 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HgmSSn )
09:21 mircea_popescu asciilifeform whores make the only sort of wife worth having tho.
09:22 asciilifeform apparently mr elevator did not think so..
09:23 mircea_popescu what did he know.
09:23 * asciilifeform tries to find example of similar hanging in the literature, but can only recall the 1890s electromechanical contraption built in new york prison by one fella, for his own (official!) hanging
09:27 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-06-2015#1174034 << idk if this is still a thing. (who wants to 'marry the u.s. passport' today?)
09:27 assbot Logged on 24-06-2015 13:13:53; funkenstein_: Next time, Teach English in Guangzhou
09:27 asciilifeform or perhaps he didn't care for ~that~ kind of whore either
09:28 mircea_popescu wife not being much of a whore is a little like husband not being much of a soldier.
09:29 asciilifeform how's that work
09:30 mircea_popescu !up Eulorian
09:30 mircea_popescu hello there.
09:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform which part ?
09:30 asciilifeform 'not much of a whore like not much of a soldier'
09:31 mircea_popescu they're both a sort of selflessness.
09:31 mircea_popescu selfish people don't marry well.
09:31 Eulorian good
09:31 Eulorian in spanish please
09:32 mircea_popescu habla espanol ?
09:32 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-06-2015#1173979 << probably time to throw it back into phuctoring gear soon. i was gonna wait for 1M submissions.
09:32 assbot Logged on 24-06-2015 11:22:33; mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> Oh phuctor passed a million moduli http://nosuchlabs.com/stats << age, cave, tace!
09:32 Eulorian si
09:32 asciilifeform 292336/1298527 presently (sks set, walking backwards from end)
09:32 mircea_popescu yo tambien, un poco.
09:32 Eulorian entre porque me llamo la atencion un titulo en la web
09:33 mircea_popescu aha ?
09:33 Eulorian que decia bitcoin y mmorpg
09:33 mircea_popescu ah, si, Eulora.
09:33 Eulorian pero veo que el juego es para linux o estoy errado
09:33 mircea_popescu ay windows tambien.
09:33 mircea_popescu http://explo.yt/post/2015/06/05/Eulora-for-Windows <
09:33 assbot Eulora 0.1.0 for Windows - serialized delusions ... ( http://bit.ly/1HgqYd8 )
09:34 Eulorian donde puedo entrar porque entre a una web que solo tenia archivos tar.gz
09:34 Eulorian que creo q son extensiones linux
09:34 Eulorian a bien
09:34 Eulorian y popescu quien eres?
09:34 Eulorian es tuyo el juego?
09:34 mircea_popescu yo ?
09:35 Eulorian si
09:35 mircea_popescu ;;google mircea popescu
09:35 gribble Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/>; Romanian Bitcoin baron 'stumps up $20k to keep OpenBSD's lights ...: <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/01/20/openbsd_bailed_out/>; MPEx - Bitcoin Wiki: <https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/MPEx>
09:35 mircea_popescu ^ ver aya
09:35 Eulorian ok gracias
09:35 mircea_popescu np
09:38 kakobrekla nemos problemos?
09:38 mircea_popescu hahaha nemos.
09:38 mircea_popescu dja mean "no mas" = not any more, or do you mean nema, as in, none ? :D
09:39 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 146018 @ 0.00041443 = 60.5142 BTC [+] {3}
09:39 kakobrekla nfi
09:39 mircea_popescu ;;google Nema Problema
09:39 gribble Croatian Phrases - Nema Problema - Croatia Report: <http://www.croatiareport.com/crophrases2.html>; Nema problema (1984) - IMDb: <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0180867/>; Nema problema (1984 film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nema_problema_(1984_film)>
09:39 mircea_popescu anyway, funny how slavic spanish is. i suppose it's due to them both starting with s.
09:39 kakobrekla lol
09:40 mircea_popescu which is a small amount of con-fusion.
09:46 punkman https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9771219 "They value "the right technical decision" over human relationships and it doesn't seem to occur to them that the right outcome might be the one that makes someone else happy, or is the most diplomatic, even if it isn't "technically right"."
09:46 assbot Ask HN: Do you work with dogmatic, stubborn developers/sysadmins? Are YOU one? | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ni42er )
09:46 punkman maybe if you stopped breaking things they'd like you
09:47 mircea_popescu ^
09:48 mircea_popescu this reads to me exactly like http://trilema.com/2014/the-definitive-tract-on-sociopathy/#selection-101.300-101.317
09:48 assbot The definitive tract on sociopathy on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HguqVk )
09:49 mircea_popescu anyone who values "personal relationships" / "people themselves" / whatever other feel good idiotarianism over "abstract rules" / "technical" / blabla is ipso facto an idiot.
09:49 mircea_popescu the entire trade is predicated on "in the contest between what's right and what's pleasant - i pick the pleasant"
09:50 mircea_popescu and when the fuck did "hacker" news turn into pink collar support group already. if you don't like working with the people that make the things you like to use, go webcam.
09:51 mircea_popescu and complain about how the speed of light is unfair and the camera view should be less made out of straight lines.
09:54 jurov yes, for example chetty should stubborny say that eulora codebase stinks and she must redo it completely?
09:55 midnightmagic looks like a high-quality HN trollpost
09:56 mats usual hn fare...
09:56 jurov i got an impression mp reels against something different that the OP
09:56 mircea_popescu jurov haha ask chetty sometime how many times this redo completely already happened :D
09:57 midnightmagic lol look at his post history. dude's a deliberate troll man
09:57 mircea_popescu i think the loot code was rewritten fully about four times. this doesn't count all the times it got partially rewritten.
09:57 mircea_popescu midnightmagic you know that theory that past a certain level of stupidity the two are indistinguishable yes ?
09:59 mircea_popescu what she means when she says things like " she did not really know this part/the client thing in that much detail" is simply that well... she didn't have to rewrite it three-four times yet
09:59 punkman I don't see this deliberate trolling you mention
09:59 midnightmagic The other markers of stupidity are absent; his grammar is nearly perfect, and the observations are ironic and deeply philosophical -- *as troll posts*.
09:59 * mircea_popescu is too meh over the entire ycombinator kaboodle to go look at hn.
10:01 punkman https://www.nsa.gov/public_info/news_information/2015/NSA_Farmers_Market.shtml
10:01 assbot 2015 News and Information - NSA's Farmers Market ... ( http://bit.ly/1HgwP2i )
10:03 mircea_popescu in other news : http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8k9jflVbH1rcqfsko1_1280.jpg
10:03 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HgxqkD )
10:03 mircea_popescu sunglasses in the bath!
10:04 mircea_popescu punkman ahaha someone should just replace the pics with pot and stuff, then republish it.
10:05 punkman I see your sunglasses and raise you a monkey https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIRBn3qUYAAsoLc.jpg
10:05 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1HgxTmO )
10:07 mircea_popescu haha what's that on the monkey's shoulder
10:10 midnightmagic sunglasses in the bath would work better if there was actual sunlight which made the sunglasses a requirement
10:12 mircea_popescu or if there wasn't steam, which is the bane of every glasses wearer.
10:13 punkman dude sucks at tying rope too
10:13 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91014 @ 0.00041185 = 37.4841 BTC [-]
10:15 mircea_popescu finally, smoking in a steamy room also sucks. both because wet tobacco and because the steam-smoke mixture is like... ew.
10:16 mircea_popescu basically, he is very bad at everything he attempts, and attempts a lot of things at the same time.
10:16 mircea_popescu he should be a web developer.
10:16 punkman probably is
10:16 mircea_popescu looks more like an internet marketard to me.
10:17 punkman same thing, no?
10:17 mircea_popescu shit.
10:31 punkman http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/24/russian-troll-factory-sued-underpayment-labour-violations-vladimir-putin
10:31 assbot Russian 'troll factory' sued for underpayment and labour violations | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1HgEPQO )
10:34 mircea_popescu oic. shame on them for hiring locally. there are some washington "civil servants" married to "entrepreneurs" that'd eagerly sell russia on the same process gavincoin used!
10:35 mircea_popescu worked so well, too. and it wasn't even too expensive!
10:40 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 173210 @ 0.00040944 = 70.9191 BTC [-] {3}
10:41 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 165000 @ 0.00041609 = 68.6549 BTC [+] {2}
10:44 jurov that would require more middlemen, with money leaking out at every step
10:45 mircea_popescu heh.
10:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116150 @ 0.00040347 = 46.863 BTC [-] {2}
10:47 jurov joint american/russian embezzlement force.. now that's something to behold
10:48 jurov !mpif
10:48 assbot BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021444 B (Total: 426.05 B). Delta: 0.09 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000207 BTC [+]
10:53 jurov ;;calc 0.0002144/1.05
10:53 gribble 0.00020419047619
10:53 jurov ;;calc 0.0002144/1.01
10:53 gribble 0.000212277227723
10:53 jurov ;;calc 0.0002144*1.01
10:53 gribble 0.000216544
10:55 jurov ;;calc 0.0002144*1.05
10:55 gribble 0.00022512
11:10 punkman https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIQhLaxWsAAkwoq.jpg
11:10 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1TNfqnc )
11:12 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 99900 @ 0.00040165 = 40.1248 BTC [-]
11:13 shinohai When you forget to hire a proofreader ....
11:14 jurov more like proofthinker
11:14 punkman http://rt.com/news/269314-anti-russian-propaganda-netherlands/
11:14 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1TNfval )
11:18 thestringpuller https://xkcd.com/1270/
11:20 jurov pedophile lobby spreading anti russian propaganda, news at 11
11:24 mircea_popescu not terribly inaccurate a drawing, either.
11:27 kakobrekla https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10358559_10153439794977372_1199518205687241080_n.jpg?oh=29b7b6afd2418d30e96a3bc4be7b211b&oe=562E871B
11:27 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1TNfNhw )
11:33 thestringpuller mircea_popescu: re redditards doing math part 2 >> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3ay0j6/block_size_userbase_size_1_mb_275000_users/
11:35 mircea_popescu they're welcome to it.
11:37 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: re http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169689 any suggestions for 'starter' isolation transformers ?
11:37 assbot Logged on 20-06-2015 18:17:10; asciilifeform: (yet another reason to run on a double-converter 'ups' or at least an isolator transformer!)
11:37 pete_dushenski i can't tell them apart and some are $100, some $300
11:37 lobbes 'Also in order to have all 7 billion people use the blockchain directly' << hehe good one
11:37 pete_dushenski and the double-converters ups are all $1k+ !!1
11:39 mircea_popescu lotta metal in em
11:39 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: and any thoughts on mitigating this concern http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169693 are also welcome
11:39 assbot Logged on 20-06-2015 18:18:35; asciilifeform: did i write here re: how a keyboard (esp. a decent 1980s 'ps/2' one) can be 'heard' from across the street ?
11:39 pete_dushenski assuming 'model m' falls into the aforementioned camp
11:40 kakobrekla it does
11:40 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: no doubt they're worth it
11:40 mircea_popescu we had some arguments re kbds, came to not much.
11:40 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: but seems like overkill for home desktop
11:41 mircea_popescu tho i suspect the cheapo plastic bump kbds are a little quieter than the model ms
11:41 pete_dushenski audibly quieter, perhaps not electromagnetically ?
11:42 kakobrekla neg
11:42 mircea_popescu i meant the latter.
11:42 mircea_popescu kakobrekla oh, not at all ?
11:42 mircea_popescu a well, there goes the irony.
11:43 kakobrekla no, the usb is quiet(er)
11:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91600 @ 0.00040165 = 36.7911 BTC [-]
11:43 mircea_popescu than ps2 ? lower voltage ?
11:45 kakobrekla pete_dushenski https://www.blackhat.com/presentations/bh-usa-09/BARISANI/BHUSA09-Barisani-Keystrokes-SLIDES.pdf
11:45 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1TNg7gb )
11:45 pete_dushenski kakobrekla: cheers
11:49 kakobrekla perhaps a ps2 isolatior or batter powered kboard
11:49 kakobrekla battery
11:49 pete_dushenski what about effect of basic ps2-usb converter ?
11:50 pete_dushenski kakobrekla: or is that what you mean by 'ps2 isolator' ?
11:51 kakobrekla if its made properly it should be good afaik but dont take my word for it
11:51 scoopbot_revived Ok, so what is Eulora disrupting ? http://trilema.com/2015/ok-so-what-is-eulora-disrupting/
11:52 mircea_popescu i doubt battery powered antenna is any weaker than mains powered antenna
11:52 pete_dushenski ^heh i was thinking about this eulora question, time to test my answers against the back page !
11:52 kakobrekla pete_dushenski the leak is happening via gnd, so if gnd is directly connected to usb gnd, i think the leak continiues
11:52 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski haha jit.
11:53 pete_dushenski kakobrekla: right..
11:53 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: lol the window was probably a few weeks. tops.
11:54 kakobrekla i havent tried but it not impossible a different cable would fix this
11:55 kakobrekla at least to a some degree
11:55 kakobrekla dunno, not the expert.
11:55 pete_dushenski kakobrekla: nor am i, i appreciate the input.
11:55 pete_dushenski http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Hammond-Isolation-Transformer-171F-110V/111690504230?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140211132617%26meid%3Dd0028792a72c431aaa20fa7e8b9c16fb%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D271849441378%26clkid%3D7089658866830618468&_qi=RTM2067268 << made in canuckistan
11:56 assbot Hammond Isolation Transformer 171F 110V | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1TNgmrA )
11:57 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85518 @ 0.00041396 = 35.401 BTC [+]
11:58 kakobrekla pete_dushenski just wait for ascii to piss on my suggestions.
11:59 pete_dushenski such is the risk of conversing where experts can see you.
11:59 pete_dushenski i'm sure he'll take a megaton dump on that little canadian ebay toy
12:05 pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-06-2015#1173976 << look like the result of one of those souvenir penny-pressing machines at zoos, museums, etc.
12:05 assbot Logged on 24-06-2015 11:11:14; cazalla: BingoBoingo, looks like they finally had the coins made one of your articles mentiond a few months back http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11694838/Islamic-State-mints-its-own-Islamic-Dinar-coins.html
12:06 pete_dushenski eg http://www.pennymachinesusa.com/Products.html
12:06 assbot Penny Machines USA Products ... ( http://bit.ly/1TNgCqv )
12:06 pete_dushenski lulzy thing is that these machines still exist in canada even though 'penny' was phased out last year
12:06 pete_dushenski because inflation !
12:07 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 179400 @ 0.00040162 = 72.0506 BTC [-] {2}
12:11 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: 'And this is what I cal disruptive.' <<
12:11 pete_dushenski !up ascii_field
12:13 ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-06-2015#1174168 << i had a 'Sola EPC 210-60.' then replaced with gigantic doublecoverter ups, 'liebert'
12:13 assbot Logged on 24-06-2015 15:37:13; pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: re http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169689 any suggestions for 'starter' isolation transformers ?
12:13 pete_dushenski eg http://www.ebay.ca/itm/SOLA-EPC-210-60-ELECTRONIC-POWER-CONDITIONER-120V-AC-1000VA-B463951-/291262820966?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43d09df266
12:13 assbot Sola EPC 210 60 Electronic Power Conditioner 120V AC 1000VA B463951 | eBay ... ( http://bit.ly/1dgs2l6 )
12:13 ascii_field if getting the latter, find a secondhand unit with missing or rotten battery, replace by yourself (100 to 200 usd, assemble the pack manually)
12:14 ascii_field ^ it
12:14 pete_dushenski ascii_field: thoughts on the 'hammond' unit linked above ?
12:15 pete_dushenski that sola's $155 just to ship :(
12:15 jurov well... sure it does not have blown output? can it be returned if so?
12:15 ascii_field pete_dushenski: the hammond thing looks like just isolator, not stabilizer
12:15 ascii_field (no gigantic caps)
12:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23750 @ 0.00041396 = 9.8316 BTC [+]
12:15 ascii_field why did you want this again ?
12:16 pete_dushenski so that meta-lisard-nsa doesn't read my keystrokes through the mains ?
12:16 ascii_field pete_dushenski: they're reading them from black van, cheaper atm
12:16 jurov (i have replaced battery in my cheapo ups, tested it with 40W bulb... in shock watched the visible jitter, and it put out ~160V instead of 220)
12:16 ascii_field ^ l0l
12:17 pete_dushenski ascii_field: and what about tmrw, when this moment has come and gone ?
12:18 * pete_dushenski wants to plan ahead, prepare for future, build warchest.
12:19 * ascii_field always thought 'warchest' meant gigantic bag of money (or, at least, ammo)
12:19 pete_dushenski that's 'treasurechest'
12:20 pete_dushenski and it's for one-eyed pirates with x-marked maps
12:27 ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-06-2015#1174181 << they aren't.
12:27 assbot Logged on 24-06-2015 15:41:10; mircea_popescu: tho i suspect the cheapo plastic bump kbds are a little quieter than the model ms
12:27 ascii_field it's the scan matrix that is 'heard'
12:27 ascii_field 100% same in all pc keyboards.
12:29 punkman how would you mitigate that?
12:30 ascii_field punkman: there is no 'off the shelf' consumer appliance that will do a lick of good here.
12:30 ascii_field you could make own keyboard using fiber strain gauges, for instance.
12:30 punkman that sounds like a pita
12:31 ascii_field if want 'not pita' - surrender now.
12:31 ascii_field surrender is the ultimate 'user friendly' (2nd only to death)
12:32 BingoBoingo Muh Oppression as a 'Dukes of Hazard' fan
12:32 BingoBoingo White Fandom matters
12:33 ascii_field wai wat
12:34 ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-06-2015#1174201 << in the linked article, yes. in old thread of mine, i was describing conventional radio leak
12:34 assbot Logged on 24-06-2015 15:52:32; kakobrekla: pete_dushenski the leak is happening via gnd, so if gnd is directly connected to usb gnd, i think the leak continiues
12:35 ascii_field (linked article also describes optical snooping using mechanical vibration & reflections of sunlight etc)
12:35 ascii_field i will describe what is probably the cheapest way to make a 'stealth keyboard' . but no one will like it.
12:36 kakobrekla rf from ps2 cable ?
12:36 pete_dushenski laser keyboard !
12:36 ascii_field no
12:36 ascii_field no
12:36 kakobrekla rf from switches
12:36 kakobrekla aite
12:36 ascii_field kakobrekla: from scan grid
12:37 ascii_field so, consider a kaleidoscope. copper barrel, like victorian telescopes etc. eyepiece - glass, indium oxide (scavenge from old lcd; electrically conductive)
12:37 ascii_field inside - led matrix 8x8, non-scanned, displays one letter.
12:38 ascii_field device picks where in alphabet to start - at random (trng)
12:38 pete_dushenski https://www.flickr.com/photos/usnationalarchives/sets/72157653877789929/page1 << coupla boys havin a gay ol' time
12:38 assbot Vice President Cheney with President George W. Bush, Part 2 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! ... ( http://bit.ly/1fBvoAW )
12:38 ascii_field user peers in eyepiece, turns wheel
12:38 mircea_popescu why not just have an array of em
12:38 ascii_field when correct letter appears, presses it.
12:38 mircea_popescu and just press the one you like
12:38 ascii_field it is important that nothing can be determined by looking at user!
12:38 ascii_field from outside
12:38 ascii_field because you do not know where in the alphabet it began, each time.
12:38 mircea_popescu how about getting a picture of a whole keyboard rather than a key then
12:39 ascii_field what's the point of having so many pixels
12:39 mircea_popescu so they're enough for everyone
12:39 ascii_field 8x8 non-scanned is practical. beyond that (e.g. graphical lcd) you now have a scanning matrix!
12:39 ascii_field these are rf-noisy.
12:39 ascii_field and hardly fit in telescope.
12:40 ascii_field brass captain's telescope.
12:40 kakobrekla im sure they will come, but would be funny if they will come with the unlikely usb sniffer instead of ps2 while the gang makes noise on ps2. sorta what happened in bosnia > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_F-117A_shootdown
12:40 assbot 1999 F-117A shootdown - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1dgv9tf )
12:40 * ascii_field ~did warn~ that no one will like this keyboard.
12:40 ascii_field but it is 'secure'
12:40 ascii_field !
12:43 mircea_popescu kakobrekla the part where the serbs were breaking nato codes is never given much airplay.
12:43 asciilifeform !up ascii_field
12:43 ascii_field it also would be logical for whatever consumes the sooper s33kr17 text string (e.g., salted password hasher) to actually live in that brass tube.
12:44 kakobrekla mircea_popescu true, id say its more likely nato self leak, but anyway, the radar thing is quite lulzy
12:45 ascii_field phun phakt: detecting 'stealth' airplane is easier today than ever
12:45 ascii_field because of the cell tower shadow it creates
12:47 mircea_popescu "stealth plane" is a dead idea.
12:48 ascii_field still works great for original purpose for which was built (siphon of usg budget to good ol'boys, what did you think it was)
12:48 BingoBoingo http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-06-2015#1173963 << Muh culture is being oppressed!
12:48 assbot Logged on 24-06-2015 08:31:34; cazalla: looks like google has shitcanned confederate flags https://www.google.com.au/webhp?&gfe_rd=cr&ei=rGqKVbPaEcf98wedmIHwDg#q=confederate+flag&tbm=shop
12:49 mircea_popescu ascii_field a magical toothpick works just as well for that purpose.
12:49 ascii_field mircea_popescu: http://skepdic.com/quadro.html << it
12:49 assbot Quadro QRS 250G Detector - the Quadro Tracker - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1dgwf8v )
12:50 ascii_field (magic toothpick, approximately)
12:50 ascii_field state of the art re: minimality, short of plain old $trillion-in-paper-cash-'missing'-in-iraq sort of siphon
12:51 mircea_popescu pretty good.
12:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.00040827 = 6.0424 BTC [-]
12:55 williamdunne For those that still use Twitter
12:55 williamdunne https://twitter.com/scoopbotrevived
12:55 assbot Scoopbot The Third (@ScoopbotRevived) | Twitter ... ( http://bit.ly/1dgwYX6 )
12:55 williamdunne Will publish anything that he posts here on twitter also
13:03 scoopbot_revived ISIS About to Introduce Altcoin into Circulation http://qntra.net/2015/06/isis-about-to-introduce-altcoin-into-circulation/
13:04 mircea_popescu loller
13:08 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo i don't get this distinction you propose. so "unlike the cryptocurrency Bitcoin, Gold seized immediately preserves its full exchange value.", what's this mean, that people paid less for faux Bitcoin the USMS was pretending to be selling than for faux Bitcoin pirate was pretending to be going to pay them ?
13:08 mircea_popescu no such thing.
13:09 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 127750 @ 0.00040827 = 52.1565 BTC [-]
13:10 BingoBoingo It means that if you seize some bitcoin and send it immediately to herpity derp service they might turp their way into "returning it" out of some misguided notion of ownership. Gotta at least use a solid mixer like BitBet
13:11 mats this is not comprehensible
13:11 ascii_field ^
13:12 BingoBoingo See http://qntra.net/2015/06/coinjar-coo-ryan-zhou-caught-impersonating-dice-sites-developer/ where BTC-E "returned" coins a dice site gave away
13:12 assbot CoinJar COO Ryan Zhou Caught Impersonating Dice Site's Developer | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1dgz4Gt )
13:12 BingoBoingo It isn't an actual property of Bitcoins. It is a failing of the social structuring of the stupid.
13:13 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo it makes no sense at all.
13:13 BingoBoingo Mebbe I need to think about this moar
13:13 mircea_popescu someone could steal your gold after you sent it just as well, what's that to do with the gold ?
13:13 mircea_popescu most of the gold the spanish sent to spain ended up in london.
13:14 * BingoBoingo rereads original ISIS article
13:14 mircea_popescu !up ascii_field
13:16 BingoBoingo Ah, I was refering to the need to get the keys or the coins, as in you can't take a laptop "full of Bitcoin" and have seized the coins: "Bitcoin on the other hand demands not only mere physical possession, but actual control of a set of keys necessary to transfer value. While gold is vulnerable to a simple change of possession, Bitcoin requires a more difficult but possible intellectual change of possession."
13:16 BingoBoingo ANd in there is a link to http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1061
13:16 assbot Loper OS » Practical Cryptoanalysis of Elliptic Curve DSA. ... ( http://bit.ly/1dgzFIl )
13:17 mircea_popescu do you basically mean that bitcoin can not be held without tools, whereas gold can, or at least to a higher degree ?
13:17 mircea_popescu this is a very different thing.
13:18 ascii_field pretty easy to 'hold without tools'
13:18 ascii_field brainwallet.
13:25 mircea_popescu yeah, but there's a minimum brain size required.
13:25 mircea_popescu there isn't a minimum hand size required by gold.
13:25 ascii_field on the contrary
13:25 ascii_field gold needs bigger fist than anyone has.
13:25 ascii_field (to hold with same tightness as btc)
13:25 mircea_popescu this is true. nevertheless, bitcoin is very elitist by its nature, which flows from this.
13:26 mircea_popescu ie, it enforces a "must be this tall to ride" limit rather than allowing people to delude themselves about it
13:26 ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=10-06-2015#1159370
13:26 assbot Logged on 10-06-2015 17:00:45; ascii_field: it is the ultimate 'iq test'
13:28 ascii_field speaking of 'brainwallet', mircea_popescu's picture of usg prison where 'lifetime pension' is probably not long for this world.
13:28 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> do you basically mean that bitcoin can not be held without tools, whereas gold can, or at least to a higher degree ? << At the time more physical possession of gold is different from possession of bitcoin
13:28 ascii_field it will be replaced - question of ~when~, not ~if~ - by something like an oubliette with a vending machine
13:28 ascii_field a meal costs, say, 5-10btc
13:29 mircea_popescu hahaha good luck with that.
13:30 ascii_field it won't be for ~every~ schmuck
13:30 ascii_field just for the ones 'too kewl for school'
13:30 mircea_popescu i don't buy from paypal, you expect me to trade with your vending machine ? wtf is this, "free market the way we like it" ?
13:31 ascii_field machine will be marked 'mean - 5btc. skipped arse dilation session - 10.'
13:31 ascii_field or somethinglikethat
13:31 mircea_popescu for the record, that system already exists, for wall street pencildicks.
13:31 ascii_field yeah but this'll be 100% automated
13:31 ascii_field no need for fallible human torturer
13:31 mircea_popescu about half the people currently working there have this episode in their life, "give us all your money and we'll agree to not let you work for x years"
13:31 mircea_popescu it's pretty automated as it is. look through wall street "prosecutions" sometime.
13:32 mircea_popescu the reason there's nothing left there but crooks is precisely that the onl;y deal available is "i try to steal as much as i can, if you catch me you get it and i take a vacation"
13:32 ascii_field today 'vacation', tomorrow - esp. if they suspect you haven't in fact given 'it all' - the vending machine.
13:32 ascii_field this is what being a prisoner ~means~ - you are a plaything for someone else's amusement
13:33 ascii_field to use in laboratory for experiments, if they like.
13:34 mircea_popescu heh. you have a very idealized view of marriage.
13:34 mircea_popescu never works that way in practice.
13:35 ascii_field worked great in cn (jp jailers experimenting with 'what internal organs does this fella ~really~ need' etc)
13:35 ascii_field and in germany
13:36 ascii_field 'vending machine' is inevitable because, unlike torquemada's chambers, it ~can be built by 'pencil dicks'~
13:37 ascii_field like washing machine. throw schmuck in, get btc out, eventually remove dessicated corpse, rinse, repeat.
13:38 ascii_field everybody stands a risk of being taken alive, and ought to be prepared mentally for this device.
13:40 mats voluntold organ harvesting is still an ongoing thing in cn
13:41 ascii_field mats: works great with above setup. optionally jailer doesn't wait for you to starve, a few wks without any signal from vending machine & you go to the harversing table (wide awake naturally)
13:41 ascii_field *harvesting
13:42 mats makes a lot of economic sense. why waste good meat.
13:42 ascii_field aha
13:42 ascii_field but in the future, death in captivity will be mainly about being 'helped to remember' brainwallets.
13:43 ascii_field and only secondarily about meat
13:46 asciilifeform !up ascii_field
13:47 ascii_field for famous (or otherwise 'ransomable') folks, machine will have an externally-advertised btc addr
13:47 ascii_field perhaps painted on outside wall of the jail
13:48 mats lol
13:48 chetty ascii_field should write sci-fi
13:49 ascii_field nah, hanbot ought to write this one
13:49 ascii_field prequel to 'shall be delivered' perhaps
13:50 ascii_field i don't have a prayer of doing half as good a job as hanbot on this one.
13:50 mats 'donate 4btc to 1Alf153X to rotate asciilifeform's cell over shark pit'
13:50 mats '5btc for quadrant with dogs'
13:50 ascii_field '2btc for snakepit'
13:51 ascii_field ^ this'll be for candidates for 'national 5 minute hate'
13:51 ascii_field infamous 't3rr0r1st4s' etc
13:51 mircea_popescu voluntold lol
13:52 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 417693 @ 0.00040776 = 170.3185 BTC [-] {5}
13:52 mircea_popescu anyway, nothing scifi here, it's more like emofi
13:52 mircea_popescu clarke wrote scifi. orwell wrote emofi. not the same thing at all.
13:53 ascii_field it's like orwell's 'telescreen' thing. inevitable tech
13:53 ascii_field was well-obvious even then.
13:53 thestringpuller didn't tv's exist in 1948?
13:53 ascii_field aha
13:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34900 @ 0.00040157 = 14.0148 BTC [-]
13:55 ascii_field incidentally, usg - like the regime portrayed by orwell - spends $maxint on attempts to 'read minds'. not always even laughably stupid - the mri 'has seen this object or not before' trick appears to actually work
13:55 ascii_field and could, in combination with something like the letter wheel described earlier, 'help remember wallet'
13:57 ascii_field (and before someone chimes in with 'so don't use brainwallet' - ~every~ wallet that you can get to, but mr schmuck can't, because you know where you buried it, etc. is in fact a 'brainwallet')
14:02 ascii_field i'd much like to hear a persuasive argument re: why all of the above won't happen.
14:04 mats my memory palace is dark and full of terrors
14:15 ascii_field ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: can anyone recall why http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20141218/bitcoin-v0_5_3-rm_checkpoints_41327b9a962e6d27869f4d361d742ab5c7061ede.5.patch didn't make it in ?
14:15 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1GyQq8Z )
14:16 punkman because it blows up trying to verify all transactions
14:16 ascii_field if it doesn't verify, it didn't happen in bitcoin ?
14:16 ascii_field does the ~genuine~, honest blockchain actually contain blocks that never verified ?
14:17 ascii_field (how?!)
14:17 punkman they verified at some combination of bitcoind and openssl
14:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 91944 @ 0.00041442 = 38.1034 BTC [+] {2}
14:19 jurov !up ascii_field
14:21 ascii_field http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/0.5.3-todos << probably ought to be either updated or tossed ?
14:21 assbot 0.5.3-todos [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6TYAO )
14:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 142985 @ 0.00040156 = 57.4171 BTC [-] {3}
14:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 190400 @ 0.00041989 = 79.9471 BTC [+] {2}
14:31 mod6 ascii_field: re: checkpoints: the patch worked fine to remove checkpoints, but it was tabled for the time being. the main discussion around this was that it could be helpful to hvae checkpoints in there to prevent spamming of blocks from timestamps before a checkpoint.
14:32 mod6 at a later time when we have everything setup for a checkpoint configuration file, then we can revisit.
14:32 ascii_field i'm all for having them in there minus the 'skip checks prior to checkpoints' thing
14:33 ascii_field skipping sig verifications ever, for any reason, is braindamaged
14:36 mod6 wher is this now?
14:37 ascii_field mod6: the original (in there now) checkpoint code
14:37 mod6 the part you're talking about is in main.cpp right?
14:38 ascii_field http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#0936
14:38 assbot Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1GyS0Ie )
14:39 mats http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/white-americans-are-biggest-terror-threat-u-s-study-n380931
14:39 assbot White Americans Are Biggest Terror Threat in U.S.: Study - NBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1GyS4aS )
14:39 punkman http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#0936 << when I removed the IFs there it blew up before block 150k, wonder if it works for anyone else
14:44 mod6 ascii_field: so you're saying you'd like to just git rid of line 939?
14:45 ascii_field aha
14:45 ben_vulpes where does fblock get set?
14:45 mod6 where it's called
14:45 ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=04-02-2015#1005892
14:45 assbot Logged on 04-02-2015 04:26:05; asciilifeform: is the only place where fBlock is true
14:45 mod6 check out line 435
14:46 mod6 yeah, line 1099 sets it to true.
14:46 ben_vulpes hyu
14:47 ben_vulpes what happens if the blockchain contains invalid blocks?
14:47 ben_vulpes coffins for everyone involved with checkpoints?
14:47 ben_vulpes not that they're not zombies already, but...
14:47 ascii_field they already earned the coffins
14:47 ben_vulpes my point is that they're still walking.
14:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130100 @ 0.00039889 = 51.8956 BTC [-] {3}
14:48 ascii_field at the very least i want to know ~why~ invalid block made it into the chain
14:49 ascii_field and cui bono
14:49 ascii_field and whether it is actually cryptographically invalid, or only protocol-invalid
14:50 ascii_field (i.e. invalid on account of a field that can be corrected today without changing validity of signature)
14:50 thestringpuller !up ascii_field
14:52 ascii_field iirc this got lost in the noise of the great wedge thing at the time
14:52 ascii_field and was forgotten when bdb locks patch discovered
15:01 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 369950 @ 0.00041903 = 155.0201 BTC [+] {5}
15:04 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 153350 @ 0.00042356 = 64.9529 BTC [+] {2}
15:06 mod6 So anyway, we'll have to remember this when we revist the Checkpoints issue. My patch will be rejected then, and we'll come up with something that gets rid of line 939 as well as pulling the checkpoints themselves out of checkpoints.cpp and into a separate config file.
15:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 236211 @ 0.00039808 = 94.0309 BTC [-] {2}
15:22 mod6 !up ascii_field
15:32 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 169700 @ 0.00039689 = 67.3522 BTC [-] {2}
15:35 Naphex https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-7xfBrjSA0
15:35 assbot Bananas, Sardines and Sharks - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1CtGBZl )
~ 37 minutes ~
16:12 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 173300 @ 0.00041641 = 72.1639 BTC [+]
16:15 trinque http://www.wsj.com/articles/nato-ramps-up-response-to-russia-1435174136 << "Breedlove" ... life imitates art?
16:15 assbot NATO Ramps Up Response to Russia - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1LozQiB )
16:20 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 122100 @ 0.00041673 = 50.8827 BTC [+] {2}
~ 22 minutes ~
16:42 mircea_popescu fluffypony http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?368748-New-Blender-Foundation-Transparency-Blog&p=2892541&highlight=#post2892541
16:42 assbot New Blender Foundation Transparency Blog - Page 16 ... ( http://bit.ly/1LoDZDq )
16:42 mircea_popescu should be interesting.
16:46 fluffypony oh good
16:47 jurov lol
16:47 jurov on slightly related note, we hatched with thestringpuller a scheme for poor USians to take hold of X.EUR
16:47 jurov when it works, we'll let you know
16:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44991 @ 0.00039617 = 17.8241 BTC [-] {3}
16:48 jurov (or you can inquire within if impatient)
16:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92200 @ 0.00041363 = 38.1367 BTC [+]
16:52 mircea_popescu i think that's gonna be the bitcoin thing - we're here to surprise you.
16:53 mircea_popescu re rm_checkpoints, iirc mod6 has it.
16:54 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes> coffins for everyone involved with checkpoints? << this is necessarily true. bitcoin hardforked once.
16:57 asciilifeform !up ascii_field
16:57 thestringpuller secret hardfork?
16:57 nubbins` is testnet still forked?
16:57 mircea_popescu nothing secret about it, satoshi did it.
16:59 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95755 @ 0.000396 = 37.919 BTC [-] {2}
16:59 ascii_field btw any reason not to amputate 'testnet' ?
16:59 nubbins` nah
17:00 nubbins` with no wallet, what's the worst you'd do to it?
17:00 nubbins` relay a tx?
17:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23317 @ 0.00039559 = 9.224 BTC [-]
17:00 mircea_popescu the mystery of meat : http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7nmzvFXMC1rvaz2uo1_1280.jpg slut in seethrough outfit looks better than naked.
17:00 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1LoHeKX )
17:01 ascii_field nubbins`: in point of fact, therealbitcoin includes wallet
17:01 mircea_popescu ascii_field iirc the agreement was that it can go, as it serves no useful purpose nor has for a long time - but not a priority. we're atm working on getting the priorities in AND RUNNING
17:01 nubbins` ascii_field don't mind me 8)
17:01 ascii_field mircea_popescu: no argument
17:02 ascii_field mircea_popescu: other than the observation that shorter -> simpler -> everything is slightly less retarded and easier to make sense of
17:02 mircea_popescu the and running part includes incontrovertibly a step where a page exists online that is substantially identical to http://www.eulorum.org/Installing_Eulora#Ubuntu
17:02 assbot Installing Eulora - Eulorum ... ( http://bit.ly/1LoHwRZ )
17:02 mircea_popescu the "navigate to /bitcoin" pointers y compris.
17:02 mircea_popescu jam - tomorrow. today, this.
17:04 thestringpuller it will be interesting the posts on reddit when you kill gavincoin just like doge mircea_popescu
17:04 thestringpuller i wonder if they'll call you a tyrant
17:05 punkman mircea_popescu: re:blender, why send paypal instead of btc (or even a wire)?
17:05 mircea_popescu i've been a girl before.
17:05 nubbins` hm
17:05 mircea_popescu punkman because a) when i first asked, their idea was "buy a mug" ; b) the link i finally fished out did not include any reference either i or fluffypony found (see it in logs) - they have A DIFFERENT unlinked page for this purpose
17:05 nubbins` thought it was the other way around
17:06 mircea_popescu and c) wire for 50 euro seems iffy, to me.
17:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 432300 @ 0.00039423 = 170.4256 BTC [-] {5}
17:06 mircea_popescu nubbins` s/girl/called a girl/ mr nubbins bedalins!
17:06 nubbins` nubbins bedalins, is that like amelia bedelia?
17:07 mircea_popescu aye
17:07 thestringpuller they are pushing the blender cloud service pretty hard these days
17:07 punkman what's the cloud service for, rendering?
17:07 mircea_popescu yeah. makes a lot of sense, from what i've seen.
17:08 mircea_popescu anyway - this is what the vanishing 1% intelligent gpu bitcoin miners did with their rigs.
17:08 thestringpuller punkman: no it's like MSDN but for blender revolging around an open source movie
17:08 nubbins` http://i.imgur.com/bmMPEbw.png
17:08 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1LoIXA4 )
17:09 punkman thestringpuller: dafuq
17:09 nubbins` it's like adobe CC but for blender?
17:09 mircea_popescu thestringpuller wut ?
17:09 thestringpuller Blender Cloud is a high quality web service in which we share all data of our previous films, all our training videos and files, and a continuous stream of data from the Gooseberry project.
17:09 thestringpuller Blender Cloud subscribers can watch the creation progress closely, share this with others, learn from it, and even contribute back to it.
17:09 punkman derp
17:10 mircea_popescu gah
17:10 trinque it's like... facebook, but for blender users, y'see
17:10 mircea_popescu im pretty sure i saw rendering prices etc.
17:10 nubbins` o
17:10 nubbins` so it's like dvd extras
17:10 nubbins` cool, where'd i put my money
17:10 nubbins` ;/
17:11 mircea_popescu https://render.st/
17:11 assbot Blender & V-Ray rendering on a fast Render Farm - Render Street ... ( http://bit.ly/1GIFMQc )
17:11 mircea_popescu apparently that was unrelated.
17:11 mircea_popescu dude...
17:15 cazalla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-06-2015#1174461 <<< bananas cheap? they were around $15/kg a few years ago down under (on account of storms destroying the banana growing regions and the fact bananas cannot be imported into australia)
17:15 assbot Logged on 24-06-2015 19:35:01; Naphex: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-7xfBrjSA0
17:15 mircea_popescu o.O ?!
17:15 mircea_popescu dude bananas are like 1 dollar / kg worldwide.
17:17 cazalla about $2.99/kg atm but every few years the storms destroy the plantations and up the price goes
17:18 cazalla that is for cavendish, lady fingers are around $7.50-$10/kg
17:18 williamdunne mircea_popescu: What is the drink you have in your blender picture?
17:19 mircea_popescu ugh
17:19 mircea_popescu that is actually a mexican sundae. except with cognac.
17:22 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 98200 @ 0.00041306 = 40.5625 BTC [+]
17:22 williamdunne That sounds pretty nice
17:23 nubbins` "My boss wouldn't accept Bitcoin. I have since quit my job"
17:23 williamdunne On that note:
17:23 williamdunne bitcoin-logo-plainBitcoin
17:23 williamdunne Blender Foundation can receive Bitcoin donations made using the following address:
17:23 williamdunne 17orEh51ab8HoU7g8Ezwcp76jCpeL7PabJ
17:23 * nubbins` weeps as his sides crumble and fall
17:24 nubbins` "My boss wouldn't accept Bitcoin. I have since quit my job, set up a competitor"
17:24 nubbins` your poor boss ;p
17:24 williamdunne Yeah that was about as derpy as it gets
17:24 nubbins` of course the fucking dog dick is a "web designer"
17:25 nubbins` someone should do a browser extension that changes all instances of "boss" in /r/bitcoin to "parents"
17:26 mircea_popescu lol im sure his parents took bitcoin
17:26 mircea_popescu also leaves, bits of their own front yard, inept 6yo drawings on bits of wallpaper etc
17:27 williamdunne In fairness, unemployment rates are sub 10% while the rates of loozers are well over 50%
17:27 trinque "mom you stupid whore! where's my hot pocket?!"
17:27 asciilifeform !up ascii_field
17:28 thestringpuller my mom woulda put me in the ground had I spoken like that to her as a kid
17:28 ascii_field http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-06-2015#1174561 << wai wat?! we're swallowing usg stats now ?
17:28 assbot Logged on 24-06-2015 21:27:00; williamdunne: In fairness, unemployment rates are sub 10% while the rates of loozers are well over 50%
17:28 williamdunne ascii_field: nah, but USG stats are what, 4%? I reckon 10% is about right
17:28 ascii_field (usg counts as 'employed' anyone of working age who isn't collecting state-funded 'unemployment pension')
17:29 williamdunne 5.5%
17:29 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 129574 @ 0.00040386 = 52.3298 BTC [-]
17:30 nubbins` out of work and not looking? you're not unemployed.
17:30 nubbins` STATS FTW
17:32 trinque thestringpuller: I'm a firm believer in post-natal abortion rights.
17:36 williamdunne nubbins`: Wouldn't that be fair anyway?
17:36 williamdunne I always thought the stat was meant to reflect those looking for work who can't find it
17:37 mircea_popescu i thought unemployed is "hasn't made 1mn clicks on fb stuff this month"
17:43 williamdunne Thats employed, surely?
17:43 mircea_popescu hm
17:44 mircea_popescu better get the pm request special powers to investigate the content of people clicks
17:44 mircea_popescu otherwise we will never be able to answer this dilemma.
17:45 nubbins` i think that's included in the next omnibus bill
17:45 nubbins` gotta get it going before mulcair gets elected
17:51 mircea_popescu lol
17:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 162940 @ 0.00041371 = 67.4099 BTC [+] {3}
17:58 lobbes !up ascii_field
17:59 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47806 @ 0.00039302 = 18.7887 BTC [-]
17:59 pete_dushenski trinque: that's called 'infanticide' and will apparently kill your chances with teh ladies
17:59 pete_dushenski not unlike williamdunne telling them they belong in the kitchen, i suppose
18:00 trinque pete_dushenski: so I hear, yet primate infanticide is most certainly a thing.
18:01 pete_dushenski insect too
18:02 pete_dushenski throughout the animal kingdom, really
18:04 williamdunne ahaha
18:04 williamdunne Yes, infanticide might be slightly better
18:06 trinque I've seen more than a few things published on whether "sudden infant death syndrome" (obviously a questionable concept on its own) is a more palatable "diagnosis" for infanticide
18:09 pete_dushenski trinque that'd make sense y'know
18:09 mircea_popescu !up kenburnes
18:09 mircea_popescu eh from what i've heard, they convicted a buncha women for what actually was bona fide kids dying
18:09 mircea_popescu in here kenburnes
18:10 kenburnes hi
18:10 mircea_popescu how goes.
18:10 kenburnes ok
18:12 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu go figure that the courts would find personal responsbility where there is none to counterbalance their continued lenience when it's actually there, as with 'insanity' pleas.
18:13 trinque yeah, I can see how the thing resembles other media-fueled panics
18:13 mircea_popescu i suppose on the surface "sudden infant death" seems insanity, as adults don't do anything like that.
18:13 mircea_popescu nevertheless, spontaneous abortion is a thing, and obviously children inhabit some sort of continuum between that and adulthood, so...
18:13 mircea_popescu who knows, nature's complex enough.
18:16 pete_dushenski and the scope of science such as it exists currently is woefully inadequate to study the matter
18:16 mircea_popescu not that inadequate. iirc it's the leading cause of death in small children in the western world.
18:17 pete_dushenski i can see the epidemiology headline now : "sids linked to living in suburbia"
18:17 mircea_popescu but so far most of the productions on the topic are "smoking is bad and vaccines good mkay"
18:18 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72900 @ 0.00042345 = 30.8695 BTC [+]
18:19 pete_dushenski trying to control variables in any such sids experiment would require insane amounts of data and coordination
18:19 cazalla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-06-2015#1174589 <<< they kill other people's kids, not their own though yeah?
18:19 assbot Logged on 24-06-2015 22:00:51; trinque: pete_dushenski: so I hear, yet primate infanticide is most certainly a thing.
18:20 punkman dunno about humans, but baby goat is delicious
18:21 mircea_popescu baby sheep's even better.
18:22 * mircea_popescu spent his decade or so of acquaintance with indian cuisine eating pretty much nothing but lamb.
18:23 BingoBoingo Goat and lamb both delicious, as are suckling pigs
18:26 punkman kinda hard to distinguish baby goat/lamb after cooking, at least for my taste buds
18:29 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 121839 @ 0.00042345 = 51.5927 BTC [+] {2}
18:30 BingoBoingo punkman: The difference is in the preparation that takes it to that point.
18:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30046 @ 0.00042656 = 12.8164 BTC [+]
18:39 pete_dushenski BingoBoingo "the later is simply for hire" << two t's
18:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11950 @ 0.00042656 = 5.0974 BTC [+]
18:58 BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Fixed
19:04 pete_dushenski cool beans. i'm outie. laters!
19:10 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41980 @ 0.00042725 = 17.936 BTC [+] {2}
19:11 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 281592 @ 0.0004296 = 120.9719 BTC [+] {8}
19:14 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-06-2015#1174609 << it was.
19:14 assbot Logged on 24-06-2015 22:17:37; pete_dushenski: i can see the epidemiology headline now : "sids linked to living in suburbia"
19:15 asciilifeform ;;google sarah blaffer hrdy
19:15 gribble Sarah Blaffer Hrdy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Blaffer_Hrdy>; Sarah B. Hrdy — Anthropology: <http://anthropology.ucdavis.edu/people/sbhrdy>; An Interview with Sarah Blaffer Hrdy on Mother Nature - Scientific ...: <http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/primate-diaries/raising-darwins-consciousness-an-interview-with-sarah-blaffer-hrdy- (1 more message)
19:16 asciilifeform ^ has book, 'mother nature', where the thesis is laid out. recommended.
19:17 asciilifeform http://bradhicks.livejournal.com/328184.html
19:17 asciilifeform ^ mega-review
19:18 asciilifeform ^ i posted it to 'reddit' when the latter was still readable, in '07, and for a while it held, i think, the 'vote' #1 record on that site
19:19 phf so i'm running thermonuked version: at 180k blockcount, i got 44526 bastards, 44007 of which have been eventually accepted with an average 3 minute delay.
19:19 phf bitcoind keeps rerequesting same bastard blocks before there's enough blockchain to accept it, on average i got 3-4 rejections for the same block, with a few worst cases of ~100 rerequests
19:20 asciilifeform phf: read the src. bitcoind never 'requests bastard block', it requests 'next blocks' and ends up with a great many that aren't the precise next block we want
19:20 asciilifeform 'So she gave a preliminary paper on the subject in 1976, suggesting that more research was needed to explain how this behavior could possibly have evolved in primates, only to be interrupted in mid talk by an audience member, a prominent expert in her field. He stood up, tried to stop her from finishing reading her paper, announced that primate females absolutely do not ever murder their own children, and that if she had obser
19:21 asciilifeform ved a primate colony in which primate females were killing their own children, it could only be because of something she had done to them; she must have committed some horrible breach of experimental ethics that so deranged these monkeys that she had driven them insane enough to do something that no monkey had ever done before. He then stormed out of the talk and went directly to the scientific press to denounce her for whatev
19:21 asciilifeform er it was that she had done to that monkey colony, so it probably is a good thing that she was already planning on changing fields, no?'
19:21 phf asciilifeform: that's how i understand it, just poor wording on my part
19:21 asciilifeform phf: so it works precisely as one might expect.
19:22 mircea_popescu phf am i reading what you're saying correctly , "thermonuked more efficient network utilization" ?
19:23 ben_vulpes hi phf!
19:23 ben_vulpes good to see you again.
19:24 ben_vulpes phf: is this on os x?
19:24 ben_vulpes !rated phf
19:24 assbot You rated user phf on 16-Apr-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: lisper..
19:25 phf asciilifeform: right, no surprises there so far. i thought that maybe as blockchain grows the cumulative delay will increase, but i don't see that happening yet
19:26 phf ben_vulpes: heya! yeah, i quit my previous job, so i have a lot more time for avocation
19:26 asciilifeform phf: out of curiosity, what was the logic behind this hypothesis ?
19:29 phf asciilifeform: a hunch, but also poor understanding of how blocks are requested. i thought that maybe bastards will compete for bandwidth with legitimate blocks
19:29 asciilifeform phf: in the sense that they are uselessly occupying the pipe while they're moving - they do
19:30 asciilifeform but 'bastard' from the perspective of a node is simply any block for which the immediate antecedent is not already on disk
19:30 asciilifeform almost always it is a legit (main chain) block
19:30 phf right
19:31 phf bastard in this case is something that's will eventually be joined onto blockchain
19:31 asciilifeform ... or not
19:31 asciilifeform (in cases of genuine crud blocks)
19:32 asciilifeform understand, the entire sync mechanism as-we-have-it is profoundly retarded
19:32 asciilifeform but there is no especially attractive way of fixing this, presently
19:33 asciilifeform all that can be done is to have a node that 1) syncs, eventually 2) allows others to sync from self 3) doesn't go around writing blank cheques for the system resources of the box it runs on and handing them out to street scum
19:34 asciilifeform it was in the interest of (3) that i amputated the 'orphan tx' cache as well.
19:34 asciilifeform phf: both patches are presently considered 'experimental' and not yet ratified by therealbitcoin.
19:34 phf mircea_popescu: i guess thermonuked is less efficient network utilization, but per asciilifeform better then less efficient memory utilization which was the case pre thermonuke
19:35 asciilifeform it is demonstrably less efficient than if there were a cache
19:35 phf right
19:35 mircea_popescu phf do you intend to publish results of your run anywhere ?
19:35 asciilifeform but we presently lack a non-retarded implementation of such a cache
19:35 mircea_popescu !up execut3
19:35 asciilifeform (this is trickier than it appears, on account of, e.g., memory fragmentation effect)
19:36 phf mircea_popescu: yes, will post here, once i have closer to complete blockchain
19:36 mircea_popescu cool.
19:36 mircea_popescu !rated phf
19:36 assbot You have not rated phf.
19:36 mircea_popescu !rate phf 1 New blood
19:36 assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/e5ce49af6a3fe867
19:36 phf asciilifeform: memory fragmentation effect?
19:37 asciilifeform !s fragging
19:37 assbot 17 results for 'fragging' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=fragging
19:37 phf thx
19:37 mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.phf.1:a15501b9b874c832d39da21bd66e77d5c726136d1695025a7edffba5998423ff
19:37 assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for phf with note: New blood
19:37 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=28-05-2015#1147075
19:37 assbot Logged on 28-05-2015 19:48:57; asciilifeform: 2) tiny turds, stored and then reclaimed, lead to fragging
19:37 asciilifeform ^ shortest explanation
19:40 mircea_popescu http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?370981-Blender-s-future-on-Mac-is-in-jepordy-and-we-re-looking-for-support
19:40 assbot Blender's future on Mac is in jepordy and we're looking for support ... ( http://bit.ly/1BBxgmZ )
19:40 mircea_popescu "Mac has never been a viable platform for professional production 3d work"
19:41 mircea_popescu the things one finds on the internet. i thought mac survived principally because graphics shitheads.
19:41 ben_vulpes illustrator != blender
19:42 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: mno. that was '90s apple (the actual apple, prior to its death and devourment of corpse by 'next' corp.)
19:42 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes nah, apparently the problem is that whatever actual driver support they had, marginal as it was, they're chucking in the new osx
19:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113288 @ 0.00042687 = 48.3592 BTC [-] {2}
19:43 asciilifeform today it survives principally because it is the only remaining commercial unix workstation vendor.
19:43 ben_vulpes the graphics shitheads were illustrator users, not blender users.
19:43 mircea_popescu apple wants to be a "mobile platform". because it worked so well for nokia, and for samsung, and for fucking blackberry.
19:43 asciilifeform (why mac survives, i mean. rather than apple corp.)
19:43 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: design happens on macs.
19:43 ben_vulpes i went to parsons. i know.
19:43 mircea_popescu well, it can only happen if the damned thing works./
19:43 ben_vulpes i work with the 'agencies'. design happens on macs.
19:43 asciilifeform design of what ?
19:44 mircea_popescu does it ?
19:44 ben_vulpes 'works' means different things for people who use computers vs program them.
19:44 mircea_popescu oris it just the thing chicklets derping on facebook and calling themselves designers favour ?
19:44 ben_vulpes creation of advertisement assets.
19:44 mircea_popescu different things these.
19:44 mircea_popescu mno, works means works.
19:44 ben_vulpes "photoshop runs" means works.
19:44 mircea_popescu but runs as in what ? "can't access the driver, here's a nice welcome box" ?
19:44 asciilifeform 'run commercial apps' + 'not microshit' == 'mac'
19:45 asciilifeform approximately.
19:46 asciilifeform more or less what ben_vulpes said;
19:46 mircea_popescu if you want to process say a shader and it takes you half hour on mac and five minutes on gentoo then by this standard one would i guess say it doesn't work.
19:46 asciilifeform it's a machine for running photoshit without being submerged in boiling cauldron of microshit
19:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: as far as these folks are concerned, gentoo may as well be a particle accelerator at dubna, ru
19:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79400 @ 0.00043133 = 34.2476 BTC [+]
19:47 mircea_popescu those folks, whatever they may think, or wish the worlkd to be, still have to eat.
19:47 mircea_popescu eating still comes out of work
19:47 mircea_popescu eos
19:47 asciilifeform aha, they eat via photoshit.
19:47 asciilifeform which runs, yes.
19:48 mircea_popescu apparently it's not going to. i dunno whence this idea comes that something can run magically-like.
19:48 asciilifeform wai wat
19:48 mircea_popescu if they don't have decent driver suport they COULD make some in house abomiation circumvent it all, and so on
19:48 mircea_popescu but it is hardly a viable solution.
19:48 asciilifeform what was the thread about, i'm having trouble telling
19:48 asciilifeform somewhere a mac shipped with an unsupported graphics card ?
19:48 mircea_popescu as the costs to prop it up just keep on growing and eventually tyhe whole "ecosystem" collapses
19:49 asciilifeform (apple does not sell such a thing)
19:49 mircea_popescu apparently they are unable to support opengl properly
19:49 mircea_popescu let alone cuda
19:49 asciilifeform iirc shaders are not part of 'classical' opengl ?
19:49 mircea_popescu supporting "classical" opengl = not working.
19:50 asciilifeform address hate mail to nvidia co. ?
19:50 asciilifeform or whoever apple's current gpu buttbuddy is
19:50 mircea_popescu no, apparently not their fault.
19:50 asciilifeform wai wat
19:51 kakobrekla http://www.techeye.net/news/us-navy-spends-millions-to-stay-low-tech
19:51 assbot US Navy spends millions to stay low-tech | TechEye ... ( http://bit.ly/1BBxESy )
19:51 kakobrekla >The Navy tried to sail away from XP in 2013, but it seemed to hit some headwind with the project as of May this year it still had approximately 100,000 workstations running XP or the other software.
19:51 mircea_popescu looks more like, "neither nvidia nor amd were willing to go into a intel-ms deal with fucking apple, because who the fuck do those assholes think they are and it's about time they figured out a) jobs is deads and b) if he weren't he'd be in jail ; meanwhile apple won't talk to intel or asus etc because they think they're too good to deal with lesser babka, and so they're saying fuck you to the entire modern computing g
19:51 mircea_popescu fx stack"
19:52 mircea_popescu at least that's what i got out of it.
19:52 asciilifeform result will likely be that apple begins shipping arm-macs with their in-house gpu.
19:52 mircea_popescu that will suck.
19:52 asciilifeform (they are already shipping this chip in the pocket comps)
19:52 mircea_popescu and no, i don't believe cook has the guts to even try.
19:53 mircea_popescu they'll just pretend like the poroblem doesn't exist and will go away, like any mcdonalds.
19:53 asciilifeform (how much it sucks is a question for serious apple aficionados, not for me)
19:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: they don't need much gut here, the chip was designed under herr jobs and exists now
19:54 mircea_popescu the need for guts comes in exactly too sizes :
19:54 mircea_popescu immense and not too much.
19:54 mircea_popescu they're the same size.
19:54 mircea_popescu anyway. jobs could have pulled something like this off, maybe, as an outlier result. mostly, he'd have failed miserably while denying it all along.
19:54 mircea_popescu anyone else they have left there won't even try
19:55 asciilifeform apple's trajectory for years has been to merge 'iphonism' into their entire product line
19:55 asciilifeform this'd be a logical conclusion.
19:55 asciilifeform mac would turn into 'ipad' 'with keyboard.'
19:55 mircea_popescu they'll make excellent gameboys in a decade.
19:56 asciilifeform they could make almost anything and folks will buy so long as it is vaguely computer-like and doesn't run winblows.
19:56 asciilifeform see the point re: 'sole remaining commercial unix ws vendor'
19:57 mircea_popescu what idiots do isn't really in the scope of this discussion.
19:57 mircea_popescu there are people with myspace accounts still.
19:57 mircea_popescu heck, yahoo briefcase apparently had users, when it closed.
19:58 asciilifeform not speaking of these. but of the folks who want a posix box that fits in a rucksack, where, e.g., 'suspend to ram' works, etc
19:58 asciilifeform just ask ben_vulpes...
19:58 mircea_popescu "And that article Richard posted just seems to exist to stroke Apple's ego. I don't think I know a single artist who would choose to buy one of the new Mac Pros for their work, especially considering the premium you pay and their reliance on AMD hardware in a field dominated by nV and CUDA."
19:58 mircea_popescu there.
19:58 asciilifeform ^ must be microshit shill
19:59 mircea_popescu heh
19:59 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109181 @ 0.0004228 = 46.1617 BTC [-] {2}
19:59 asciilifeform thing is, 'not microshit' is a hard criterion for many, many folks
19:59 asciilifeform including myself
19:59 mircea_popescu "The crappy 3D support on Mac OS is in direct conflict with that goal. Furthermore, as a non-Mac OS user, I would kindly request that no disproportionate developer effort be spent on such an inadequate and developer-hostile platform.
19:59 mircea_popescu Sent from my iPad."
19:59 mircea_popescu how about that.
20:00 asciilifeform 'mac' ~can~ be treated as something like an irix or solaris box, as a funny-looking frame around a bourne shell and x11 terminal
20:00 asciilifeform winblows - not.
20:00 mircea_popescu "Pixar does NOT use Apple computers to make 3D for their movies (modeling, animation, render, shaders, etc.). They use Linux, just like everyone else in the industry. Now they might use a Mac to paint a background or texture something but all feature animation is done in Linux (Disney, Dreamworks, Sony Animation, Blue Sky, etc. etc.). That's also true for SFX shops like ILM, Weta, Sony Imageworks, DD, etc. etc. All Lin
20:00 mircea_popescu ux."
20:00 mircea_popescu i had no idea.
20:01 asciilifeform why would anyone use anything other than linux boxen for a headless render farm
20:01 asciilifeform ?
20:01 assbot [HAVELOCK] [BTR] 1117 @ 0.00111 = 1.2399 BTC {2}
20:01 mircea_popescu "modeling, animation, render, shaders"
20:01 asciilifeform they, likely, have proper card specs from nvidia etc. under nda
20:01 mircea_popescu why would someone use something other than the car to go shop ? "oh, this is for work!!1"
20:01 mircea_popescu so it is.
20:02 asciilifeform 'pixar' does not live by same constraints as us mortals
20:02 asciilifeform if they want the gpu datasheet - they get.
20:02 asciilifeform (perhaps minus the 'nsa chapter' but enough to run shader.)
20:04 mircea_popescu anyone can get the mafia to embed an engineer if they have money.
20:05 asciilifeform sure. but why would the 'anyone' make the result available gratis to his competition ?
20:05 asciilifeform (incidentally, the success history of ussr attempting this was spotty, to say the least.)
20:06 mircea_popescu your ideas of competition come from this world with scarce work and plenty of high skilled folk to do it. this is not the case.
20:06 mircea_popescu there's an endless mountaineous heap of work, and the last time i talked to someone even halfway competent was last week.
20:06 asciilifeform 'embed engineer' sounds simple, but he has to be permitted near the jewels, know what's worth stealing, ~and~ continue working for ~you~ rather than the nice fella who now signs his bonuses
20:07 * mircea_popescu waves hand
20:07 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174799 << i live there!
20:07 assbot Logged on 25-06-2015 00:06:08; mircea_popescu: your ideas of competition come from this world with scarce work and plenty of high skilled folk to do it. this is not the case.
20:07 mircea_popescu there's absolutely no value in software. let him steal.
20:08 asciilifeform the shortage is of work that 1) pays 2) doesn't make you want to shoot yourself in the head immediately
20:08 asciilifeform 1 or 2 alone - so plentiful that 'you can eat with your arse'
20:09 asciilifeform 1+2 - 'unicorn'
20:09 asciilifeform and there is no shortage whatsoever of 'skilled folk.' there is only shortage at a particular price point.
20:11 asciilifeform while (!hired(bid++)); << convenient algo.
20:11 williamdunne Is this DPB? http://cointelegraph.com/storage/uploads/view/f42abf63ce15666be179844d74acfa74.jpg
20:11 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1BByC18 )
20:12 mircea_popescu williamdunne folk with beards all look the same to you don't they
20:13 williamdunne Possibly
20:13 williamdunne In my defence though, two bitcoiners who look pretty similar
20:13 williamdunne https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIRaK8aUcAAdXlR.jpg
20:13 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1BByFdt )
20:14 williamdunne With the same bear
20:14 williamdunne *beard
20:14 williamdunne I'm pretty sure it is dpb
20:18 mircea_popescu doesn't look like him to me, but hey. danielpbarron is it or ain't it ?
20:19 mircea_popescu is blondy swallowing a casino chip ?
20:20 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 102300 @ 0.00040995 = 41.9379 BTC [-]
20:21 williamdunne Putting her money where her mouth is supposedly
20:22 * asciilifeform wonders if mircea_popescu's idea of 'competence' approximately equals 'willing to dig in chernoble reactor for 2 rubles / hour'
20:23 asciilifeform these - yes, good luck finding.
20:23 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no dude. it's "go do something useful". after interval, person has done something useful.
20:24 mircea_popescu really very low bar, in any other time than the present
20:24 asciilifeform not hard - yes, today - if ~pay~
20:24 asciilifeform this is ~not~ like the scarcity of, e.g., 'real computer', where ~it doesn't matter if you're rich, it doesn't exist~
20:25 mircea_popescu and yet <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: as far as these folks are concerned, gentoo may as well be a particle accelerator at dubna, ru
20:25 asciilifeform well yes, because all of the things one can't even dream of affording 'look quite alike'
20:25 mircea_popescu no amount of pay is going to deretardify reddit.
20:25 asciilifeform no amount will put out the sun either
20:25 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> oris it just the thing chicklets derping on facebook and calling themselves designers favour ? << Largely this. I know a person who "Does Video" for a and I am not making this up: "Storytelling Consultancy" or at least he did. Not sure atm what that douche is doing.
20:25 asciilifeform i was speaking of problems that are at least theoretically worth solving
20:26 asciilifeform e.g., laying down shaded pixels
20:26 asciilifeform or getting $proggy built as-so
20:26 mircea_popescu there's more pixels needing laying down than there are people who can do it. period.
20:26 mircea_popescu infinite pay per capita would not fix this
20:27 asciilifeform in the sense of 'this is like protein folding' - sure
20:27 asciilifeform there is infinite appetite
20:27 mircea_popescu that's the ACTUAL bargaining chip of the sv firms : if you ACTUALLY want us to pay market rate, market rate's infinity and we're paying it. get printing.
20:27 asciilifeform sv pays in counterfeit money
20:27 mircea_popescu it has to!
20:27 mircea_popescu there's no way to pay five people to do six jobs!
20:28 mircea_popescu for pay to work as you expect there's a strict requirement that jobs < people.
20:28 asciilifeform if mircea_popescu wants to remove a pair of hands from sv, all he'd have to do is pay in actual money
20:28 mircea_popescu o, wait, "actual money" = "fixed percent of all the money that'sd ever going to exist" ?
20:28 asciilifeform aha
20:28 mircea_popescu tyvm. but... what fixed percent of all the money that's ever going to exist is microsoft worth ?
20:28 mircea_popescu 0.0001% say ?
20:28 mircea_popescu if that ?
20:28 mircea_popescu so ima pay what, 10 btc for all of redmond ?
20:28 asciilifeform microshit is worth what mosquitoes are worth
20:28 asciilifeform i.e. with negative sign bit
20:29 mircea_popescu this is getting pretty complex.
20:29 asciilifeform what is the removal of the last mosquito 'worth'
20:29 mircea_popescu and i mean that literally. a + bi
20:29 asciilifeform if there were, e.g., a martian in orbit, known for his impeccable honesty, who offered to vaporize every last employee of microshit, present and past, for 10 btc - mircea_popescu would decline ?
20:29 mircea_popescu yes.
20:30 asciilifeform 'not worth bullet' ?
20:30 mircea_popescu for one think, iirc that'd do mike_c in.
20:30 asciilifeform l0l
20:30 * mircea_popescu is too old to fall for "progress" and "future" tricks. i'm not paying for that.
20:30 asciilifeform fair
20:30 asciilifeform and who's to say what weevils will breed in the crater
20:31 mircea_popescu and on it goes.
20:31 asciilifeform but as gedankenexperiment re: what a great blight is 'worth'
20:31 mircea_popescu forget your own opinion, the thing trades on exchanges, worth what, 100bn ?
20:31 mircea_popescu yes, i would trade 10 btc for 100bn "worth" of engineering work.
20:31 asciilifeform sumthinglikethat
20:31 mircea_popescu that's what, two million man-years ?
20:32 asciilifeform measuring software dev in 'man-time' is ~how we got a planet with microshit in the first place~
20:32 mircea_popescu you're the one forcing me to use nonsensical terms to humor you
20:32 asciilifeform l0l
20:32 mircea_popescu now you bitch about their nonsensicalness ?!
20:33 asciilifeform was trying to walk on tightrope between lunacy and sense
20:33 mircea_popescu glwt!
20:33 mircea_popescu it's simple, really : when jobs < people, you can pay. when jobs > people, you gotta let em volunteer. no other way.
20:33 mircea_popescu yes, you gotta distribute resources back out somehow, but it can only be via equity.
20:34 mircea_popescu fnance is what it is, its own kind of thermodynamics, off of which it is actually derived.
20:34 asciilifeform when will mircea_popescu be volunteering for rat shooting detail in the abandoned factories of leningrad ?
20:34 mircea_popescu you don't get to say what you'd like it to be like.
20:34 asciilifeform more rats than shooters atm
20:34 asciilifeform hence 'all must volunteer' ?
20:34 mircea_popescu well clearly no-one's payin' em ?
20:35 mircea_popescu anyway, the problem exists because it's global. not because "in this tiny island of rust beltlandia so and so rats".
20:35 mircea_popescu this is the first seriouys problem we ran into, ever since this globalization paradigm.
20:35 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174884 << i can't pretend to any divine revelation re: the numbers, but what i do see is folks who pay lawyer $xxxxx to solve their problem, and offer programmer $xxx. and then wonder why their programmatic problems remain unsolved. they answer 'lawyer is a man and programmer is a monkey. and the latter gets monkey wage.' answer: you paid for monkey. so that's what you get.
20:35 assbot Logged on 25-06-2015 00:34:08; mircea_popescu: you don't get to say what you'd like it to be like.
20:37 mircea_popescu this scenario only plays out in your own mind (admittedly poisoned by a lot of interaction with idiots). in reality it's like this : there are more jobs than people. the system where you pay people a salary only works when there are more people than jobs. when there are more jobs than people you essentially create a large excavator of sense on a large mountain of problems, and divy up the results somehow. such as they
20:37 mircea_popescu are.
20:37 mircea_popescu this is what i mean by equity.
20:37 mircea_popescu and yes this means people working can end up not making anything. it does. necessarily.
20:38 mircea_popescu in theory it works out to better pay and better working coinditions than the alternative, but
20:38 asciilifeform this is an approachable problem
20:38 mircea_popescu generally when people compare the present with the option they imagine, they take selected bits of each.
20:38 asciilifeform once you discover the hidden variable - that most of the creatures masquerading as 'people' are actually apes - you are left without one side of the equation
20:38 asciilifeform ditto the 'problems'
20:38 asciilifeform most of them are not actual problems
20:38 mircea_popescu there's no option here, however. no way will be devised where the systematically wrong model can be employed. it's, essentially, what a scam is : the proposition that we've temporarily turned thermodynamics off.
20:39 asciilifeform but the stink of ape-man shit
20:39 mircea_popescu i am not sure this simplification works as you intend it to.
20:39 mircea_popescu you're cutting off T on one side with dT on the other side.
20:39 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: nobody turned thermodynamics off, but it is entirely possible to have a room full of lunatics mumbling 'vroom, vroom'
20:39 asciilifeform which is what the 'computing industry' is largely about.
20:39 mircea_popescu this while true, makes the problems not an iota smaller.
20:40 mircea_popescu if your house is fulla shit, the realisation that an idiot shat your floor does not clean it any.
20:40 asciilifeform it reduces the 'ocean of problems' to one particular - scientifically formulatable - problem.
20:40 mircea_popescu arguably intellectual problems, such as software, are easier to clean for being virtual rather than physically embodied
20:40 mircea_popescu but still not that much.
20:42 asciilifeform people ask why 'computing is different' and answer is that the field had the misfortune to appear at the same time as the great 'democratization' shit-lathering of the 20th c.
20:42 mircea_popescu not even true. computing appeared in the 50s.
20:42 asciilifeform if, e.g., aeronautics had waited until such a time, 'airplane' would be synonymous with 'f-35'
20:42 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: as did the rest of the rot.
20:42 mircea_popescu rest of the rot, imo, appeared in the 80s.
20:43 asciilifeform but computing in the modern, interactive-terminal sense came later.
20:43 * asciilifeform distinguishes act of 'computing' from 'calculating'
20:43 * asciilifeform bbl, off to pet pet
20:44 mircea_popescu anyway. lawyering is only "different" because of your perception. most lawyers die in debt, still not having paid their college costs
20:44 mircea_popescu and that's not even counting for the currently alive set.
20:44 mircea_popescu generally, the prospect of being a lawyer is strictly speaking dimmer than the prospect of being a programmer.
20:44 mircea_popescu there's no lawyer that walks away with a bn from a successful buyout.
20:44 mircea_popescu there used to be but... in the 50s!
20:45 mircea_popescu as far as they are concerned, getting an even bummer deal than code monkeys. plus they have the family dynasties stuff to make it more painful.
20:45 mircea_popescu "my grandfather was a senator, and my father made a billion, and i'd better do another line of cock^H^Hke before i think about this too muc"
20:48 williamdunne The best off lawyer I know, made very little of his money directly from being a lawyer
20:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.00042239 = 8.7012 BTC [+]
20:49 mircea_popescu there are two overlapping misguiding things here. one is, the tournament market. you wouldn't imagine singer/songwriters are better off than you because britney spears, would you ? nor would you imagine "pundits are rich" because oprah, or limbaugh or whatever.
20:50 mircea_popescu in fact. most of these girlies are in the shitter, consider http://trilema.com/2014/holy-shit-technical-analysis-is-real/#selection-85.0-89.62
20:50 assbot Holy shit! Technical Analysis is real! on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Lpjm9Z )
20:50 mircea_popescu the other one is that, the government. yes, fucktards like shrem end up selling the house to pay "the lawyer".
20:50 mircea_popescu the same would have been true if they were fighting cancer as is true when they are fighting the usg.
20:50 mircea_popescu nevertheless, THE DOCTOR isn't seeing jack of all that.
20:50 mircea_popescu nor is the laywer.
20:51 mircea_popescu might as well say "you programmers don't need any money anyway, look at what google revenue is!"
20:52 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> once you discover the hidden variable - that most of the creatures masquerading as 'people' are actually apes - you are left without one side of the equation << Ah, the Roof problem. Rook shot up nine respectable civilized folk. If he really cared to address his precieved problem his target ought to have been a crack house.
20:52 mircea_popescu and so here is the (designed, by the way! deliberately, by the way!) impasse before the free world : one percent of the money spent on $profession actually goes to ~the individual members of $profession~, and then of that, 99% goes to the display monkeys, who are five people, and the remainder however many split the remainder 1%, which generally means they pay to participate.
20:53 mircea_popescu then coders (unlike doctors! or lawyers! and the lawyers would JUMP at the chance, if it were somehow feasible - but so far it's only feasible in banking and finance, mostly) get the option to work for equity, but
20:53 mircea_popescu well.. "why can't it be like it was for oprah!!11"
20:53 mircea_popescu well duh baby. because it never was, that's why.
20:53 BingoBoingo Because Oprah's a hamplanet
21:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70387 @ 0.00042707 = 30.0602 BTC [+]
21:00 mircea_popescu and with math, too : if social expenditure for field is one trillion, and the headcount employed is one million, that means one million get to divy up a hundred million, thus making a whooping 100 a head. that's not even the fabled dollar a day.
21:01 mircea_popescu and yes, the trillion spent means the govt got to offset 990 billion off another whatever indescript entry in its ledger,
21:02 mircea_popescu and yes the trillion spent also means five people got two billion a pop give or take to be paraded across the country with a large jam tomorrow sign affixed.
21:02 mircea_popescu cool, but what does it do ?
21:02 mircea_popescu not like they can spend two billion to buy a hundred thousand aks and ammo for them and shoot the whole charade into the ground
21:03 mircea_popescu because their 2bn is conditionally theirs on the understanding not that it won't get used "for terrorism",
21:03 mircea_popescu but that it won't be used at all.
21:03 mircea_popescu o, nm, you can "donate it".
21:04 mircea_popescu just as long as it's a meaningless act, carefully sterilized, pointless and ineffectual.
21:05 mircea_popescu meanwhile, i'll listen sympathetically to any programmer that can't feed himself ; and i'll be amused at any programmer that "but oprah!". the field's over there, and it takes all comers. don't mind the manure.
21:10 mircea_popescu and in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7p2qfBWlJ1rbog77o1_1280.jpg
21:10 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1LpmpPr )
21:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52850 @ 0.00043114 = 22.7857 BTC [+] {2}
21:20 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50650 @ 0.0004229 = 21.4199 BTC [-]
21:20 * asciilifeform back
21:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu's summary is essentially correct re: 'software industry'
21:26 asciilifeform but to bring it back to the 'dirty house, cleaners want wheelbarrow of gold, so must stay dirty' - i doubt mircea_popescu is suffering from any software problem that, say, terry davis (deliberately not nominating any of the folks here for this gedankenexperiment) couldn't or wouldn't fix for, say, 50000btc
21:28 asciilifeform and yes, the 'software industry' is so utterly rotten that an individual act of deretardification has to be contemplated on own merits, rather than as 'market action', modellable with the usual rules. sorta like buying a russian nuke. sui generis.
21:32 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174939 << the magic of bitcoin is that 100% can go to the fella who is willing to dive in a pressure suit below five kilometres of liquid shit and retrieve grandmother's dishes from the sunken h.m.s. shitanic
21:32 assbot Logged on 25-06-2015 00:52:54; mircea_popescu: and so here is the (designed, by the way! deliberately, by the way!) impasse before the free world : one percent of the money spent on $profession actually goes to ~the individual members of $profession~, and then of that, 99% goes to the display monkeys, who are five people, and the remainder however many split the remainder 1%, which generally means they pay to participate.
21:32 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97800 @ 0.00043133 = 42.1841 BTC [+]
21:33 asciilifeform but it'd have to be 100% of ฿escape_rocket, yes
21:33 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13250 @ 0.0004229 = 5.6034 BTC [-]
21:38 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174921 << i don't single out lawyers from naive 'but mine has mercedes!' observation, but because the lawyers who ~actually reliably magic away problems~ are not dying in debt. or worrying about rent.
21:38 assbot Logged on 25-06-2015 00:44:04; mircea_popescu: anyway. lawyering is only "different" because of your perception. most lawyers die in debt, still not having paid their college costs
21:39 asciilifeform ditto for surgeons who specialize in the nearly-impossible, etc
21:41 BingoBoingo Lawyers who can reliably contain problems don't const $maxint. The only lawyers who charge $maxint aren't charging for their lawyering, but marketing. Hence Ulbricht hiring the maliciously incompetent Dratel snake.
21:43 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: to be fair, we don't know what he paid. perhaps d. agreed to work for considerable discount..
21:44 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Dratel from what I understands works until open ended fundraiser is exhausted.
21:44 BingoBoingo Pure chumpatron to drain actual Ulbricht supporters of resources
21:44 asciilifeform plus lawyer was quite possibly the wrong tool for the job. ulbricht needed to hire 'blackwater' rather than lawyer.
21:44 mircea_popescu i suffer from such a problem, yes.
21:45 mircea_popescu !s $maxint
21:45 assbot 168 results for '$maxint' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=%24maxint
21:45 mircea_popescu according to you, at least.
21:45 mircea_popescu apparently they'd have to bake a whole new silicone process.
21:45 * asciilifeform did not say 'new process' !
21:45 asciilifeform just new standard cells
21:46 mircea_popescu and i wouldn't give 50k to random unknown schmuck without a wot for the obvious reasons, regardless what they can or could do.
21:46 asciilifeform and any undergrad 'ee' student can draw you the muller gate standard cell in cmos.
21:46 asciilifeform after that, it's merely a matter of 'build skyscraper'
21:46 mircea_popescu anyway. people who actually magic away problems, in any field, name their own terms.
21:47 mircea_popescu asciilifeform and the dratel example is particularly on point. what that man did was the equivalent of a bitdaytrade "platform".
21:48 asciilifeform the solution of very expensive problems with no precedent is quite possibly a lemon market, yes.
21:48 mircea_popescu this is perhaps not painfully obvious to you on account of some version of the memory hole effect, but it can not be readily put into code, the degree of braindamage. perhaps a field full of gotos with no other instructions
21:48 mircea_popescu "this program does nothing" "yes, but it takes some time - like any other program!"
21:49 asciilifeform i see dratel as a pretty obvious case of usg mole
21:49 mircea_popescu <BingoBoingo> Pure chumpatron to drain actual Ulbricht supporters of resources << and the fact that kid would sign off on this - pretty disgraceful.
21:49 mircea_popescu but THEY know what they're doing. they are doing exactly tyhis : make the chumps helpless.
21:49 mircea_popescu "what's the point of donating - prolly go straight to a lawyer snake anyway"
21:49 mircea_popescu nice.
21:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform me too. the problem is - this was one of the more successful ones.
21:49 BingoBoingo This is why for my still to be litigated misdemeanor charge attorney is still working off of his flat $150 pre-trial fee.
21:51 asciilifeform herr ulbricht didn't have a 'lawyer problem,' he had a military problem. or could a sufficiently expert german lawyer have exonerated, say, the 'july plot' folks who failed to nail the fuhrer
21:51 mircea_popescu you're misrepresenting things.
21:51 mircea_popescu the goal here is not to "Exonerate"
21:51 mircea_popescu the goal here is to do maximal damage to the system.
21:52 asciilifeform leaving aside the fact that poor u. wanted to save own sorry hide, rather than 'damage system,' there is precedent.
21:52 mircea_popescu oleander blosom doesn't run outof your mouth, plant itself back on tree.
21:52 asciilifeform ted kaczynski ('unabomber')
21:52 mircea_popescu oleander blosom sees to it that's the last time YOU're running anywhere.
21:52 asciilifeform read transcript of his trial some time
21:52 mircea_popescu what of it ?
21:52 asciilifeform fella was brilliant, and devoted entire trial to making 'rule of law' look as ridiculous as it is
21:52 asciilifeform 'max damage to system'
21:52 asciilifeform ended with: muzzle.
21:52 mircea_popescu indeed.
21:53 asciilifeform and lifetime supermax
21:53 asciilifeform (ditto with muzzle)
21:53 mircea_popescu also ended with us here.
21:53 asciilifeform and the 'damage' was a tiny scratch on the bumper
21:53 asciilifeform need a microscope to see it.
21:53 mircea_popescu or dja regard the present as unconnected ?
21:53 mircea_popescu i beg to differ, i see it quite plainly.
21:53 asciilifeform not certain how connected
21:53 asciilifeform open to seeing the logic ?
21:53 mircea_popescu i don't think the connections will ever be certain.
21:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101400 @ 0.00040995 = 41.5689 BTC [-]
21:54 mircea_popescu but broadly, "if the rule of law didn't suck, or if it did and nobody'd bother showing it - what then ?"
21:55 mircea_popescu anyway. see the married men article. they who wish to be exonrated left,long ago. those who stay ALREADY MADE the choice to max damage.
21:55 mircea_popescu turning back on one';s choices later is not another's problem. i am not held to explain why the guy that changed his mind failed both ways.
21:55 asciilifeform what is this 'left', when the bottle has no outside.
21:55 asciilifeform or is there a colony of 'left' on mars.
21:55 mircea_popescu tough.
21:56 mircea_popescu nobody said you get to make all the choices you might wish to.
21:56 mircea_popescu and yes, it's a choice even if you didn't get to make it.
21:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35750 @ 0.00040995 = 14.6557 BTC [-]
21:56 asciilifeform yes, but mircea_popescu mentioned something like 'those who wished, left'
21:56 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> the goal here is to do maximal damage to the system. << This. On my misdemeanor charge which it was suggest I settle organizational incompetence on the part of the police and prosecution seems to be scuttling whatever case they may or may not have had. Because people normally plea evidence was never collected or lost according to intel. Alleged "victim" is reportedly now a joke subject to taunts from coworkers wit
21:56 BingoBoingo h any ability he might have had to use "powers of office" effectively castrated.
21:56 mircea_popescu observably some people left.
21:57 mircea_popescu Because people normally plea evidence was never collected or lost according to intel << lmao.
21:58 BingoBoingo Seriously people were like "It's a misdemeanor don't fight it." I'm like "It's a misdemeanor and I'm white. They prolly don't anticipate having to prosecute it"
22:01 asciilifeform back to thread where we http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174986 >> demonstrably false in a sharashka.
22:01 assbot Logged on 25-06-2015 01:46:57; mircea_popescu: anyway. people who actually magic away problems, in any field, name their own terms.
22:02 asciilifeform in sharashka, the very best rocket designer's terms are 'i get to eat'
22:02 mircea_popescu notrly. reread your source material.
22:02 mircea_popescu people naming their own terms were in there - provided, of course, they got to magic away problems.
22:02 asciilifeform well, he gets caviar while the worst gets beans, sure
22:02 mircea_popescu this is strictly different from "jewish princesses imagining themselves special in own mind"
22:02 asciilifeform just like sharashka where i live.
22:02 mircea_popescu no.
22:02 mircea_popescu do i need to quote verse and chapter to you ? because if i do you're eating crow.
22:03 asciilifeform of what? solzhenitsyn?
22:03 mircea_popescu sure.
22:03 asciilifeform let's have actual, vs fictional personages ?
22:03 asciilifeform say, korolev
22:03 mircea_popescu pick one, they all have it, as part of being credible.
22:03 asciilifeform did k 'name own terms' ?
22:04 asciilifeform what if he has asked 'i want to live in manhattan as a free man' as 'terms' ?
22:04 asciilifeform on the contrary, at the peak of his career, he had two goons stationed outside of his apartment door at all times.
22:05 asciilifeform just to make sure that he doesn't - to manhattan (and, at least officially , that manhatten doesn't ~him~)
22:05 mircea_popescu so we're switching "fiction as written by a respected source" to "fiction as alf feels like recounting it for the purpose of current convo" ?
22:05 asciilifeform naturally i wasn't there, saying hello to k. in person
22:05 asciilifeform if this means 'fiction' i should like to know where is reality.
22:06 mircea_popescu in any case i'll score s above a, if you don't mind ?
22:06 mircea_popescu at least he WAS there.
22:06 asciilifeform ;;google хлопнут без некролога
22:06 gribble Sergei Korolev - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Korolev>; First get your facts straight... - RationalSkepticism.org: <http://www.rationalskepticism.org/pseudoscience/first-get-your-facts-straight-t46146.html>; How To Think Critically - RationalSkepticism.org: <http://www.rationalskepticism.org/general-debunking/how-to-think- (1 more message)
22:07 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32547 @ 0.0004182 = 13.6112 BTC [+] {2}
22:07 asciilifeform s. is approx. the same kind of guide to the subject as svetonius and '12 caesars' is to his.
22:07 asciilifeform yes, he was there...
22:08 BingoBoingo Maybe this is the wrong epoch's fiction being contrasted. Maybe 'Uncle Tom' and 'Gus' the christmas ornament would cover a larger range of outcomes.
22:08 mircea_popescu well then we can't really say much can we.
22:09 asciilifeform http://maxpark.com/community/4375/content/1932238 << primary sources
22:09 assbot Арестованный №1442, он же — великий конструктор | АНТИСОВЕТСКАЯ ЛИГА ... ( http://bit.ly/1eIdf4t )
22:09 asciilifeform incl. letter of k. to beria
22:09 asciilifeform re his treatment
22:09 BingoBoingo Gus the Christmas ornament of course being one of the antagonists in the original blockbuster film
22:10 mircea_popescu i dunno that primary sources escape the suetonius objhection.
22:10 mircea_popescu after all, he wrote with a purpose.
22:10 BingoBoingo From an era before Whitey invented suburbia to concede sexual prowess to the african american
22:10 asciilifeform incidentally k. did 'win from not signing the papers,' in a way. after recanting his confession (given under torture, which mutilated him in ways which ultimately led to his death) his death sentence was commuted to life-at-hard-labour
22:10 asciilifeform (from which was eventually promoted to sharashka)
22:17 decimation http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174805 < lol software is the only game that pays
22:17 assbot Logged on 25-06-2015 00:07:18; mircea_popescu: there's absolutely no value in software. let him steal.
22:18 mircea_popescu yes, pays. like all knowledge. let him steal.
22:19 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27750 @ 0.0004248 = 11.7882 BTC [+]
22:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform amusingly enough, five minutes ago :
22:20 mircea_popescu <waylow> I'm on mac so I couldn't figure out how to install the game
22:20 mircea_popescu <mircea_popescu> oh macs. yeah that's been a pain. a binary for it is still being worked on, but it's slow going. if you have an ubuntu anywhere, from what i hear it's pretty smooth. also windows binaries work.
22:20 mircea_popescu <waylow> I do - but it's been a while since I've run linux. no windows for me
22:20 mircea_popescu teh exact customer you were talking about.
22:21 decimation in theory bsd and mac should be similar
22:22 decimation the problem is all the graphics shit
22:22 mircea_popescu "all girls are similar until they strip"
22:23 decimation heh
22:23 decimation in theory you could make an X11 version if it already works on X
22:23 decimation but performance would be shit
22:25 BingoBoingo It's something of a pity that Mac survived and Amiga died
22:26 BingoBoingo <decimation> in theory bsd and mac should be similar << BSD isn't all that similar to other BSD
22:26 BingoBoingo They even all have their own libc
22:26 mircea_popescu the difference is minute. amiga, just as bad assholes.
22:27 decimation http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1174989 < https://github.com/xoreaxeaxeax/movfuscator
22:27 assbot Logged on 25-06-2015 01:48:21; mircea_popescu: this is perhaps not painfully obvious to you on account of some version of the memory hole effect, but it can not be readily put into code, the degree of braindamage. perhaps a field full of gotos with no other instructions
22:27 assbot xoreaxeaxeax/movfuscator · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcNaoV )
22:27 mircea_popescu there's in fact a heap of identical assholes that never made it, which nobody seemsd to ever know about.
22:27 decimation not quite goto but similar idea
22:29 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> the difference is minute. amiga, just as bad assholes. << Sure. The biggest difference was Amiga paid more for parts on each box so they could get the niche live video production market. All the assholes, reamed on their chosen niches
22:30 mircea_popescu http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?368748-New-Blender-Foundation-Transparency-Blog&p=2892923&viewfull=1#post2892923 << le lulz.
22:30 assbot New Blender Foundation Transparency Blog - Page 16 ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcNKCV )
22:31 decimation http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175076 < actually whitey moved the black folk into the cities - to push out 'white ethnic' voting blocks
22:31 assbot Logged on 25-06-2015 02:10:44; BingoBoingo: From an era before Whitey invented suburbia to concede sexual prowess to the african american
22:31 mircea_popescu we find the following things suspicious : romania, paywalls, and bitcoin.
22:33 BingoBoingo decimation: Your problem is you assume a monolithic whitey
22:33 mircea_popescu everyone else does, why single him out for it.
22:33 mircea_popescu whites are like the jews, amirite ?
22:33 decimation no, I don't
22:33 BingoBoingo Because goddammit muh culture is bein oppressed
22:34 decimation generally 'whitey' in this case are old-fashioned anglican wasps
22:35 BingoBoingo decimation: Only when sane pale folk say whitey. When SJW's and the lower class blacks say whitey they mean poor whites.
22:35 BingoBoingo Mostly poor rural whites, southern optional.
22:36 decimation and those poor whites were largely the targets of black immigration to cities
22:36 decimation having a large block of voting catholic irish - had to be crushed
22:36 BingoBoingo Liberal palefolk assume whitey mean Bushes, Clintons, and Rothschilds. Radical whites and non-graduating blacks assume whitey is trailer trash.
22:36 trinque BingoBoingo | It's something of a pity that Mac survived and Amiga died << heard "microkernel wank" a couple times round here, but I was a huge BeOS fan back in the day
22:37 trinque ultra-stable, high performance, was miles ahead of the game re: graphics in its time
22:37 BingoBoingo trinque: BeBox was the next gen victim of Mac survival
22:37 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-06-2015#1175101 << there was! but it is a mistake to lump in amiga. cbm was still under delusion that it sold ~computers~ rather than 'system' (that is, complete slave planet like apple, where peripheral makers pay danegeld, etc)
22:37 assbot Logged on 25-06-2015 02:27:05; mircea_popescu: there's in fact a heap of identical assholes that never made it, which nobody seemsd to ever know about.
22:37 trinque BingoBoingo: yeah
22:37 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53600 @ 0.0004248 = 22.7693 BTC [+]
22:38 asciilifeform cbm shipped ~schematics~ with machines. apple sold... yes, a key, with which the 'annointed' could open the b&w mac chassis
22:38 BingoBoingo In Motorola era Amiga crushed. In PPC era BeBox crushed
22:39 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> cbm shipped ~schematics~ with machines. apple sold... yes, a key, with which the 'annointed' could open the b&w mac chassis << You mean apple provided a target for the drill
22:39 asciilifeform (there were really four outfits under name 'apple' - the folks who sold apple ii series; the folks who sold 'mac' until '99; rebranded 'next corp.' under herr jobs; the present-day zombie.)
22:39 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: point was not that it was difficult to drill. aftermarket 'keys' appeared almost immediately. point was the symbolic meaning of this abomination
22:39 decimation note that 'next' is basically modern osx
22:39 decimation on top of bsd
22:40 asciilifeform decimation: pre-'next' apple is as gone as cbm
22:40 decimation yeah
22:40 asciilifeform there is literally no trace of it remaining.
22:40 BingoBoingo decimation: But on top of msot weirdo bsd
22:40 asciilifeform in any of the products sold by that firm
22:40 decimation c64 was probably better in its day anyway
22:40 mircea_popescu than amiga ? definitely.
22:41 asciilifeform c64 was unthinkably good for its day.
22:41 mircea_popescu amiga sucked about as much as apple.
22:41 asciilifeform did mircea_popescu ever see an amiga alive ?
22:41 mircea_popescu they stand in my mind because when i first heard of apple i thought "hey... this is like... amiga ?"
22:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes. friend had one.
22:41 asciilifeform compare in the flower of their youth, rather than, say, '93 when cbm was a vegetable
22:41 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39982 @ 0.0004248 = 16.9844 BTC [+]
22:42 asciilifeform ferphuxxsake amiga had what we'd call a gpu today
22:42 asciilifeform when apple sold b&w thing
22:42 mircea_popescu no, im comparing the amiga i knew (early 90s) to the apple i saw (late 90s onwards)
22:42 asciilifeform and it was ~documented~
22:42 mircea_popescu and while i agree with you re the distinction, i believe it's without a difference.
22:42 BingoBoingo Apple II's apple's swan song the IIGS was a great machine
22:42 asciilifeform the difference is that cbm did not sell a cult, it sold machinery
22:42 mircea_popescu apple managed to somehow remain THE SAME assholes in spite of changing everything around jobs
22:42 * punkman vaguely recalls some amazing Amiga games
22:42 assbot AMAZING COMPANY!
22:42 decimation asciilifeform: c64 was cheaper than apple ii as i recall
22:43 asciilifeform afaik cbm did not ever attempt to extort tribute from peripheral makers, or software devs
22:43 asciilifeform nor tied user's hands in any particular way
22:43 BingoBoingo <decimation> asciilifeform: c64 was cheaper than apple ii as i recall << c64 was easily cheaply stamped product, Amiga was not
22:43 asciilifeform it just sold boxes.
22:43 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i dunno how documented it was, not caring for such thing at that age. i know however that the amiga guy never made anything like a game.
22:43 mircea_popescu we did, they sucked, how it goes.
22:43 asciilifeform i'm ~still~ playing amiga games now
22:43 asciilifeform (at least was, a few yrs ago, on emul.)
22:44 asciilifeform quite comparable to mid-90s msdos, in terms of pure technical 'effect'
22:44 mircea_popescu eh, shitty early playstation. fuck it.
22:44 * BingoBoingo has never found a working Apple IIGS at an acceptable price. Played with one for a bit Phree then...
22:44 asciilifeform again, it was a computer, sold as a computer, with 'anyone can write for this' and proper docs
22:45 asciilifeform how this can be compared to 'playstation' i cannot fathom
22:45 decimation http://www.theamphour.com/241-an-interview-with-chuck-peddle-charismatic-chipmaking-coryphaeus/ < chuck peddle claimed that 'basic' was the real selling point of the c64
22:45 assbot An Interview With Chuck Peddle - Charismatic Chipmaking Coryphaeus | The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcPP1U )
22:45 decimation he was probably right about that
22:46 asciilifeform the death of cbm is a pretty well-documented subject, and revolved around their one and only unforgivable sin - royally pissing off their c64 install base by breaking compatibility
22:46 asciilifeform eventually they diverted revenue into making items like 'c128' but it was too late.
22:46 asciilifeform !s jack tramiel
22:46 assbot 5 results for 'jack tramiel' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=jack+tramiel
22:46 asciilifeform ^ iirc we had a cbm thread here
22:47 mircea_popescu asciilifeform well ? THAT is how.
22:47 BingoBoingo decimation: And warm climate agricultual labor was the selling point of involuntary immigration of Africans, but only because Mestizos were too expensive at the time.
22:47 decimation yeah the other problem was jack tramiel left
22:48 decimation because the commodore board was full of retards apparently
22:48 mircea_popescu in other news : apparently blender has this official "marketplace" thing, which lists various assets for sale. so I go for a 16 bucks buy, on the theory that let's check it out. coinbase, of course. my payment is uncredited. they have a support email for just this case, i write to them... my email is rejected.
22:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43244 @ 0.00042203 = 18.2503 BTC [-] {2}
22:49 mircea_popescu apparently I'm the shady one for not using paypal and being romanian.
22:49 mircea_popescu running off with payments and then blocking emails is a perfectly legit strategy.
22:49 mircea_popescu im entirely certain they actually THINK THIS, too.
22:49 mircea_popescu "weird bad, stupid good! for weird is weird and stupid smells like the home stable!11"
22:49 decimation ^ note that thier perception of what is 'weird' is purely what usg smiles upon
22:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: email rejected ?
22:50 asciilifeform as in bounce ?
22:50 trinque it occurs to me that the fraud dept of paypal may look very much like some soviet bureau's office did
22:51 trinque but we're free! because anyone can have their own dismal bureaucracy
22:51 trinque they probably have a script they go by which includes something like "third world" on it
22:51 mircea_popescu SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<support@cgcookiemarkets.com>:
22:52 mircea_popescu 554 5.7.1 ACL dns_rbl; Client host [188.68.240.159] blocked using
22:52 mircea_popescu sa-ip4tset.blagr.emailsrvr.com=127.26.0.2 Cloudmark CSI. Please visit
22:52 mircea_popescu http://csi.cloudmark.com/reset-request for more information on why this message
22:52 assbot CSI IP Reputation Remediation Portal ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcQMqX )
22:52 mircea_popescu could not be delivered
22:52 mircea_popescu the odds of me "visiting" some random agent in the "danegeld to email" scamring ? zilch.
22:52 mircea_popescu interesting how the twerps keep changing name, too. i don't seem to recall this particular extortionist.
22:52 decimation "The disagreement between Tramiel and Gould was so bitter that, after Tramiel's departure, the Commodore magazine was forbidden to state any of Tramiel's famous sayings or even mention his name."
22:52 asciilifeform jwz!
22:52 asciilifeform (y'know, the fella who said 'why aren'tcha using gmail, terrorist')
22:53 mircea_popescu well not exactly. he was more into the "why should i punish google for google fucking up my email ?!?!?! i just want email to work!!11"
22:53 asciilifeform phun phakt: tramiel sat in auschwitz.
22:53 decimation !s damnatio memoriae
22:53 assbot 7 results for 'damnatio memoriae' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=damnatio+memoriae
22:54 decimation asciilifeform: not auschwitz, Ahlem according to la wik
22:54 decimation ah no he started in auschwitz
22:54 mircea_popescu meanwhile irl, Checking 188.68.240.159 against 95 known blacklists... Listed 0 times with 0 timeouts
22:54 decimation "Like many other inmates, his father was reported to have died of typhus in the work camp; however, Tramiel believed he was killed by an injection of gasoline. " nasty
22:54 mircea_popescu the world totally needs 95 of these things.
22:55 asciilifeform http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/12/local/la-me-jack-tramiel-20120412 << tramiel didn't give a rat's arse re: computing 'big picture.' he was running a manufacturing concern, in the old 19th. sense in his mind, complete with 'muntzing'
22:55 assbot Jack Tramiel obituary: Founder of Commodore computers dies at 83 - latimes ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcReWb )
22:55 punkman did the qntra spam affect the other domains too?
22:55 decimation asciilifeform: the electronics industry is still largely in that mode
22:55 mircea_popescu punkman http://mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx << not really.
22:55 assbot Network Tools: DNS,IP,Email ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcRhBh )
22:55 asciilifeform decimation: if only. the 'intellectual property!!!111!!!!!' cancer has eaten most of it
22:56 asciilifeform go and try getting full docs for anything larger than a full adder.
22:56 decimation heh yeah
22:56 decimation what I mean is that intel, for instance, just puts all their chips on the 'let's shrink dies' side
22:56 decimation no one is re-thinking big picture
22:57 decimation not that we would know it anyway, because of the nda problem
22:57 asciilifeform actually the thing they put 'all their chips' is collaboration with microshit and the entire criminal pyramid
22:57 asciilifeform the 'shrink dies' thing is pure sideshow.
22:57 decimation it yields a few percent per year
22:57 asciilifeform it is done ~solely~ so that microshit gets to release winblows $year
22:58 asciilifeform with 20% more empty loops
22:58 asciilifeform and 'indian' code
22:58 decimation note that microsoft has dropped price of windows to $0
22:58 decimation even though it's really worth negative
22:58 asciilifeform eventually will have to pay folks to touch it
22:58 mircea_popescu and they will.
22:58 mircea_popescu perfect way for the living wage introduction.
22:59 decimation the only thing I use winblows for is to record tv shows, because they give free listing service
22:59 mircea_popescu "pay people to use windows, to better technologee"
22:59 decimation this was dropped in new windwos
22:59 mircea_popescu exact equivalent of mcdonalds
22:59 mircea_popescu which is the eventual fate of all government agencies.
22:59 mircea_popescu fed to pleb fake money conveyor.
22:59 asciilifeform this is already happening. but, as william gibson wrote, 'the future is here, but not evenly distributed.'
22:59 mircea_popescu right
22:59 asciilifeform i have winblows box. solely to run malware. which is one of the things i am paid for.
22:59 decimation heh
22:59 asciilifeform so in effect i am 'paid to touch it'
23:00 mircea_popescu and you will be telling me about how hard it is to escape, right, because moving off windows will require "someone to provide the lost income"
23:00 decimation asciilifeform: you almost need real metal box, because of all the vm detection
23:00 mircea_popescu and i will just nod and carry on.
23:00 asciilifeform decimation: aha
23:00 asciilifeform decimation: of course they are specially designated physical boxes.
23:00 asciilifeform decimation: i actually work for a firm which builds computers solely for this purpose
23:01 asciilifeform believe or not.
23:01 decimation ideally someone would make one with a button to freeze and dump all registers
23:01 asciilifeform and guess what.
23:01 mircea_popescu this must exist.
23:01 asciilifeform it does.
23:01 asciilifeform i built it.
23:01 mircea_popescu haha cool.
23:01 decimation I believe it, you could make lots of headway against malware if you can control its hardware environment
23:01 mats would love to read that secret sauce
23:01 asciilifeform decimation: thing is, we discovered that not many folks are really eager to 'make headway against malware'
23:02 asciilifeform they just want to collect the bezzle
23:02 mats have dreamed of a usable reversible debugger for many moons
23:02 mircea_popescu curious if mats gets hired now.
23:02 decimation sure, why bother actually finding malware when people will pay you to pretend
23:02 asciilifeform not many ~want~ to find
23:02 asciilifeform because when you ~find~ strange, now you have to properly reverse it, document...
23:02 asciilifeform and then it turns out to be usg-authored, and then what
23:02 asciilifeform (who pays?)
23:02 decimation heh
23:03 decimation you could sell to another arm of usg
23:03 asciilifeform so far, they ain't buying.
23:03 mircea_popescu o yeah. definitely already here but not evenly distributed.
23:03 mircea_popescu usg on usg love.
23:03 asciilifeform for same reason, e.g., microshit isn't
23:04 decimation asciilifeform: a large reason why this problem exists is becuase you can't sue microsoft for damaging your shit
23:04 asciilifeform decimation: naturally
23:04 mircea_popescu o yea.
23:04 asciilifeform decimation: but only proximately.
23:04 mats externalizing costs is how software engineers have jobs
23:04 asciilifeform yes, they exempted software 'industry' from ~all~ consumer liability laws in '80s.
23:04 asciilifeform but if only this. since then, an entire class of vermin sprang up
23:04 asciilifeform who pretend to 'write software'
23:04 mats much unlike a civil engineer responsible for faulty bridgeworks...
23:04 decimation and now the 'rats run the ship'
23:05 asciilifeform the notion that any kind of animal is even possible other than rat, is held to be a lunatic fringe thing
23:05 decimation even simple programmers know what it would take to write bug-free code
23:05 decimation about 100x less 'production' and 100x more 'thinking'
23:06 decimation in fact, to even seriously consider writing software for which you are liable is to instantly consider dumping the existing c-machine
23:07 mats while i'm on the subject here is there useful reversible debugging you're aware of, asciilifeform?
23:07 mats gdb can kinda do it, but its slow and buggy.
23:07 asciilifeform decimation: the folks who have 'must work' as hard requirement still prefer the whole 'spend ten years with magnifying glass' to 'rethink computing'
23:07 mats rr is neat but limited... reversedb is limited to linux.
23:07 mircea_popescu https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/572468782057013248/WtdCdJXG_400x400.jpeg << /me notices how this guy is always in this quad double-dating sort of situation, but apparently always with a different gal.
23:07 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcT5tU )
23:07 mats vmware got rid of record/replay after vmware 7
23:07 mircea_popescu swingin' london.
23:07 asciilifeform mats: what, precisely, do you need reverse-gear for ?
23:08 asciilifeform mats: what's wrong with rewinding by running proggy again
23:08 mircea_popescu mats gdb is what eulora uses if that makes you feel any better.
23:08 asciilifeform to whatever breakpoint
23:08 mats slow
23:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: gdb is what the entire free world uses
23:08 asciilifeform at least in one form or another
23:08 decimation asciilifeform: my own experience is that it's way more difficult to paper over shitty hardware in software than to make reliable hardware
23:08 mats i want to easily see the values of all registers (as noted before) including bit flags, fp registers, ...
23:08 asciilifeform mats: my favourite graphical skin on gdb is... ida.
23:08 asciilifeform yes, ida.
23:08 mats figures
23:08 mircea_popescu ha
23:09 decimation mats: you could probably do this with valgrind too
23:09 asciilifeform it speaks 100% compliant gdb wire protocol
23:09 asciilifeform decimation: valgrind is not a debugger
23:09 decimation yeah but it does emulate x86, I gotta think someone has integrated debug
23:09 asciilifeform mno. doesn't emulate anything
23:09 asciilifeform must be confusing it with somethig else?
23:10 asciilifeform mats: ida is a total monopoly on the kind of thing that it is, bar none. i don't know of any other product category anywhere in modern industry where there is ~ONE~ thing
23:10 asciilifeform possibly 'mpex'
23:10 asciilifeform that's pretty much it.
23:10 asciilifeform the two of them.
23:10 decimation ah yeah http://valgrind.org/docs/manual/manual-core-adv.html#manual-core-adv.gdbserver
23:10 assbot Valgrind ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jk8H14 )
23:10 mats asciilifeform: i don't have anything specific in mind. have been developing my talents in exploitation but i'm kind of stuck as to how to move forward
23:11 decimation but anway if you want to reverse software you need ida
23:11 asciilifeform decimation: whatddayaknow, there is emulator.
23:11 asciilifeform neato
23:11 mats asciilifeform: i should probably sign up to be jr malware analyst or some such thing.
23:11 asciilifeform mats: if you have the stomach !
23:11 decimation mats: i think there's a free version of ida for download
23:11 decimation ancient
23:11 mats i'm from the internets, why settle for free
23:11 decimation well, I'm also sure there's warez too
23:11 mats plenty of working license files floating
23:12 mats or however that works.
23:12 asciilifeform reasonably recent ida (having, e.g., 'hexray' plugin, more or less mandatory, and support for weird cpus, etc) is notoriously scarce on warez
23:12 asciilifeform why? story is: irfan guilfanov builds custom copy for each buyer.
23:13 asciilifeform who 'leaks' - is damned publicly and never dealt with again, has to buy support via shills
23:13 decimation heh
23:13 asciilifeform ilfak guilfanov.
23:13 mircea_popescu if only the guy could join teh wot.
23:13 asciilifeform ask'im
23:13 asciilifeform but iirc he sold the firm years ago
23:13 mircea_popescu i dun know 'im
23:13 asciilifeform now sits in belgium, angry
23:13 decimation this sounds like the best mechanism for trying to enforce 'copyright' I've heard of
23:14 mats its pretty easy to say 'well i got hacked plz gief another one'
23:14 decimation asciilifeform: I bet you could control valgrind gdb with ida
23:14 mircea_popescu mats same could be said re btc.
23:14 decimation set breakpoints on mem leaks, etc
23:14 asciilifeform the folks who own it now are profoundly aware of their position. you pretty much have to beg repeatedly to so much as be given an address to which to mail the cheque
23:14 asciilifeform to buy a copy
23:15 asciilifeform mats: 'got hacked' gets same treatment as 'leaked deliberately'
23:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform maybe wot is the pill to no longer be angry.
23:15 asciilifeform maybe
23:15 * asciilifeform doesn't know the chap personally, can't help find him
23:15 * mircea_popescu waves in the general direction of the ethers
23:15 decimation asciilifeform: once you add a few more zeros to your bank account, probably can't be bothered with a few extra $k
23:15 asciilifeform incidentally, 'ida' is a beast quite like 'bitcoind'
23:15 mircea_popescu so i hear.
23:15 asciilifeform terrible, monumentally stinking cpp turd
23:16 asciilifeform to which there is no realistic alternative
23:16 mircea_popescu /you are not expected to understand this
23:16 asciilifeform decimation: understand, every 'legit' corp. on the planet which employs reverse-engineers, incl. the arms of usg, buys ida.
23:16 mats most of the serious dudes i know have non-attributed ida licenses
23:16 asciilifeform sure.
23:17 mats which can be easily done by setting up a shell corp, or just lie.
23:17 asciilifeform didn't say they buy one for each man!
23:17 decimation why bother with attribution?
23:17 asciilifeform thing is, it's attributed whether it displays your name or not
23:18 decimation yeah, unless you are sending envelope of cash, he has your checking account
23:18 asciilifeform vendor knows for whom the build (with particular order of static linked internals, etc) was built
23:18 asciilifeform to really deal with this, would have to obtain a number of builds, and unravel the scheme
23:18 asciilifeform afaik no one has ever bothered (why?)
23:19 decimation because it would be like paying for the sun
23:20 asciilifeform phun phakt: ~explotable~ crashes have been discovered in (some versions of) ida.
23:20 asciilifeform *exploitable
23:21 decimation as in, malicious?
23:21 decimation or as in, can be exploited if reversing the wrong warez?
23:21 asciilifeform as in arbitrary code exec as result of crafted sample
23:21 decimation heh
23:22 asciilifeform this did not annoy folks as much as it should have because until recently (linux ver. is new) everyone ran it on a designated turdbox with the other wincrap
23:22 decimation asciilifeform: if you had a winblows computer for malware, it would also be useful to hit another button and display a complete diff between running state and 'known good' state
23:22 asciilifeform ...and guess what..
23:23 decimation and a third button that reverts machine to known state
23:23 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9958 @ 0.00041107 = 4.0934 BTC [-]
23:23 asciilifeform and guess what.
23:23 decimation already implemented?
23:23 asciilifeform aha
23:24 decimation on a vaguely related note, I found an amusing show on 'the weather channel' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1gZSNdkajY
23:24 assbot Prospectors | S01E01 | Breaking the Dry Spell - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NcVGEr )
23:24 asciilifeform a bit oversimplified description, but yes, we make this.
23:24 decimation apparently there are people who spend their time trying to find minerals on federal land
23:25 asciilifeform l0l what do they get? tax break ?
23:25 decimation but since nobody is printing crystals, etc they can make $$
23:25 decimation asciilifeform: no mainly through nobody's doing, apparently it is still legal in the us to 'claim' federal land for mining
23:25 decimation land open to this is mainly west of the mississippi
23:25 asciilifeform wait till somebody finds something worth stealing
23:26 asciilifeform then - poof.
23:26 decimation yeah that's a whole episode
23:26 decimation trying to get usg to care about your 'property rights'
23:26 asciilifeform see and i didn't even need to watch it
23:27 decimation in fact, it seems to me that claiming the land is counterproductive, just because it shows 'where to dig'
23:27 decimation although it keeps the big obvious infringers off 'your' land
23:28 asciilifeform why would i care ~which~ thief steals everything from me ?
23:28 asciilifeform what difference if usg, or chinese emperor
23:28 decimation asciilifeform: depends if thief is using hand ax or 300 ton earthmover
23:30 decimation I saw a real-life gold mine the other day, saw a truck carrying 300 tons of rock
23:30 decimation was about 20 ft wide and 40 ft tall
23:30 decimation like house moving down the road
23:30 asciilifeform back to the debug thing (because imho it is very educational) - it is very difficult to sell something which actually solves a problem, on account of the whole meatwot thing
23:31 asciilifeform it is just like the 'programmers' thread from hour ago
23:31 asciilifeform you get to an 'uncanny valley' effect where the better the thing works, the worse off you are, because 'not believable'
23:31 decimation that and everyone copies
23:31 asciilifeform and it can even come to where you have to lie, understate capability of product, even
23:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00041107 = 11.5922 BTC [-]
23:32 asciilifeform and copies. so you're stuck where you end up selling time on the machine, in somewhat circumscribed use cases
23:32 asciilifeform because if you actually sell the thing full-bore, you are now 'asking money for the sun'
23:33 decimation the apple model is to try to convert your software into hardware
23:33 asciilifeform the apple model works if you're usg
23:33 asciilifeform and have crown franchise to do the whole schmuck-herding thing
23:33 asciilifeform where your idiocies have the force of law
23:34 decimation asciilifeform: kinda related are the eda tools for designing chips
23:34 asciilifeform 100% usg-controlled
23:34 asciilifeform afaik.
23:34 decimation well, they are also useless if you don't have $1mil to get 'note from stalin' to make chips
23:35 decimation and that's for one iteration
23:35 asciilifeform typically takes a dozen or more.
23:35 asciilifeform (iterations)
23:35 asciilifeform at least, once did
23:35 decimation asciilifeform: you might find this guy mildly interesting http://www.theamphour.com/254-an-interview-with-andreas-olofsson-adatevas-ampliative-abacus/
23:35 assbot An Interview with Andreas Olofsson - Adateva's Ampliative Abacus | The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1Jkakvz )
23:35 decimation he describes this process
23:36 decimation tried to sell 'new processor' idea on kickstarter, ended up hating kickstarter
23:36 asciilifeform afaik those folks are arm licensees
23:36 asciilifeform ergo, did not design 'new processor'
23:36 asciilifeform but just 'riff on old tune'
23:36 decimation asciilifeform: no, they use arm for board i/o control
23:36 asciilifeform hm.
23:37 decimation but they have their own silicon to perform dsp 'MAC' operation
23:37 decimation the guy was a dsp designer and became disillusioned by all the shit that was stuffed into dsp chip
23:38 asciilifeform wake me up when somebody bakes a turing-complete gadget with no winblows used ANYWHERE in the brain-to-silicon road
23:38 asciilifeform (other than chuck moore. who did this, yes. but he is old, and not sure if his thing is even still made)
23:38 decimation apparently it uses opencl program
23:38 asciilifeform then turd firmly cemented in.
23:38 decimation I think chuck moore's 'colorforth' runs on windows
23:38 asciilifeform it runs on whatever
23:38 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 119292 @ 0.00040964 = 48.8668 BTC [-] {3}
23:38 asciilifeform incl. bare z80
23:38 asciilifeform iirc
23:39 asciilifeform point is, he 'licenses' nothing.
23:39 decimation I tried to use it once, confusing as hell and also barely documented
23:39 asciilifeform 100% own-code
23:39 asciilifeform right, why document when you know all of it
23:39 asciilifeform because 1 user.
23:39 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42850 @ 0.00041054 = 17.5916 BTC [+]
23:39 decimation yeah the same podcast interviewed vic antonic fellow, who was serb who made his own 8-bit computer back in the 80's
23:40 asciilifeform i have no idea what funds 'greenarrays'
23:40 asciilifeform perhaps it's his personal coin from sofa cushions.
23:40 asciilifeform the silicon equivalent of 'vanity press authors'
23:40 decimation he said that he felt when writing anything higher-level than assembly, he feels like the code 'isn't his own'
23:40 asciilifeform and he's right.
23:40 decimation asciilifeform: the greenarrays site seems to imply they are in production
23:41 decimation who knows how long they will last before they dry up and blow away
23:41 asciilifeform who buys, last i saw, was a mystery
23:41 asciilifeform perhaps mircea_popescu, to run his bitcoind-in-forth
23:41 asciilifeform perhaps some other mircea_popescu
23:41 asciilifeform ('not shakespeare, but man by the same name')
23:41 decimation probably some arm of usg
23:42 asciilifeform if usg, probably just buying it to sink in the ocean
23:42 decimation nah, probably because someone who knew what they were doing made it work
23:42 decimation now usg is stuck forever
23:42 asciilifeform like symbolics lispm.
23:42 decimation precisely
23:42 asciilifeform (there's one lab at ft. something-or-other that has ~eternal~ support contract with symbolics co.)
23:43 decimation usg 'collects' technology in exactly this way
23:43 asciilifeform this is public.
23:43 decimation mainly through its defense-contract departments like lockheed, etc
23:44 trinque asciilifeform: it just clicked into place that these computers are precisely those field radios, as you pointed out.
23:44 asciilifeform i'd be surprised if archaeologists ever turn up a 'greenarrays' in usg gear
23:44 asciilifeform but stranger things have happened
23:44 decimation asciilifeform: the parallella guy was complaining that fpgas have 'eaten' the dsp market
23:45 asciilifeform of course. whole point of dsp was for 'annoyingly custom' problems
23:45 decimation and he did confirm that it costs about $1m to do a chip rev, if you go through the fab's preferred 'agents'
23:46 decimation apparently his eda tools were a special 'deal' for startups, with the understanding that he pays later
23:46 asciilifeform the other things, that $m is pure sunk cost if what you get in the post is a dud that doesn't even power
23:46 asciilifeform which is not unheard of
23:46 decimation yep, he did 4 revs
23:46 decimation tried to simulate on fpga as best as he could
23:46 decimation apparently they make massive 64-way fgpa boards to simulate a full chip
23:47 asciilifeform more.
23:47 asciilifeform up to 'refrigerator' size
23:47 decimation which cost ~$100k themselves
23:47 decimation or more
23:47 asciilifeform 100k is 'cheap'
23:47 asciilifeform multi-$m is normal
23:47 asciilifeform plus 'support'
23:47 asciilifeform not really sold in the usual sense. more of a lease, like the old ibm mainframes
23:47 decimation and note that doesn't help you completely with silicon, as you have pointed out before
23:48 asciilifeform and god help you if your thing has to interact with components that you can't simulate (because you didn't design them, and what, other vendor is going to share its logic? dream)
23:49 decimation plus third party 'ip cores'
23:49 asciilifeform aha
23:49 asciilifeform the whole 'chip business' is in many ways ~inherently usgizing~
23:49 asciilifeform because there is no way to effectively amortize the astronomical costs without running a scam of one kind or another.
23:50 asciilifeform ideally - a scam directly on the folks who print money
23:50 decimation yeah he said that his business is very difficult because any kind of processing that he could do with his chip - can be done with a specialized asic
23:50 asciilifeform why would folks who print money buy a device for saving a little money ?
23:50 asciilifeform the basic dilemma here
23:50 decimation so for any kind of an open standard - it is impossible for 'generic' solution to beat specialized asic
23:51 decimation thus, closed-turd asic eats everything
23:51 asciilifeform only thing it can beat it on is cost, and the folks who give a fuck re: cost can't afford ~it~ either.
23:52 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48017 @ 0.00040741 = 19.5626 BTC [-] {2}
23:52 decimation it's the hardware equivilant for the software phenomenon - first turd to market wins
23:53 decimation hardware in general makes so little money it's a wonder anyone even bothers
23:54 asciilifeform because it is necessary to enable other rackets
23:54 asciilifeform 'wintel' gets to exist for strictly, strictly that
23:54 decimation yeah, good point
23:54 decimation it becomes a vanity project for those who can print money
23:54 decimation which is pretty much silicon valley
23:55 asciilifeform this is why i believe that the discovery of integrated circuit was a serious 'degutenbergization' from which we have not even begun to recover.
23:55 decimation yeah and the 'die shrink' has only made things worse
23:56 asciilifeform ic put the mega-org (in practice, arm of the state) in the driver's seat in much the same way as nukes once did (if you ask mircea_popescu) or still do
23:57 asciilifeform even ~neglecting die shrink~
23:57 asciilifeform no one makes 'intel 4004' in their kitchen any more than he can make 'pentium'
23:57 decimation yeah, it is a real problem for society when you literally need 10's to 100's of $bil to even try to 'make new ideas'
23:58 decimation so everyone derps in playground that can be had for $1k
23:58 asciilifeform in practice, it means that, e.g., cpu world is as conservative as ancient egypt
23:59 asciilifeform where archs that would look entirely familiar to folks in 1960s are still considered 'state of the art'
23:59 asciilifeform because literally no one can afford to take a risk
23:59 decimation asciilifeform: nearly all the 'evolution' in modern cpus can be considered to be reincarnating things ibm did in the 60's
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