02:52 |
scoopbot |
New post on Bingology - The Blog of Aaron 'BingoBoingo' Rogier: Adventures In Video |
| |
~ 1 hours 5 minutes ~ |
03:58 |
thimbronion |
Very cool to see bingoboingo in moving picture format |
03:59 |
bingoboingo |
thimbronion Thank you, definitely substantial room for improvement. |
04:02 |
bingoboingo |
And if it isn't clear "consumers have come to expect" is driving the decision to record the video in a vertical format. |
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↖ |
| |
~ 7 hours 20 minutes ~ |
11:22 |
punkman |
"Over the last 60 years, Visa has built a collection of historic commerce artifacts - from early paper credit cards to the zip-zap machine. Today, as we enter a new era of NFT-commerce, Visa welcomes CryptoPunk #7610 to our collection." |
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↖ |
| |
~ 3 hours 24 minutes ~ |
14:46 |
thimbronion |
$ticker btc usd |
14:46 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $49762.15 |
| |
~ 1 hours 41 minutes ~ |
16:28 |
PeterL |
!s update |
16:28 |
PeterL |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-22#1053342 << added |
16:28 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-22 07:40:14 cgra: PeterL: by me, you may add it to the scoopbot roll, http://cgra.net/feed |
| |
~ 20 minutes ~ |
16:48 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-22#1053344 << correct. |
16:48 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-22 12:41:24 thimbronion: asciilifeform: in your scheme is there a field in the packet that indicates whether or not it should be relayed? |
16:49 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-22#1053343 << still haven't tried this item, but fully intend to! |
16:49 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-22 12:34:50 scoopbot: New post on Thimbron: Alcuin 9996: Testnet and Bugfixes |
16:51 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-22#1053348 << ftr asciilifeform still suspects that 'lolcatvids' could just as effectively be served via a torrent-like mechanism, with 0 centralized cachefarms etc req'd |
16:51 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-22 23:57:42 bingoboingo: And if it isn't clear "consumers have come to expect" is driving the decision to record the video in a vertical format. |
16:52 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-21#1053332 << wb shinohai |
16:52 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-21 19:13:16 shinohai: Good to be back home. |
16:52 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-23#1053349 << wtf is a 'cryptopunk' here ? |
16:52 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-23 07:18:03 punkman: "Over the last 60 years, Visa has built a collection of historic commerce artifacts - from early paper credit cards to the zip-zap machine. Today, as we enter a new era of NFT-commerce, Visa welcomes CryptoPunk #7610 to our collection." |
16:52 |
asciilifeform |
$ticker btc usd |
16:52 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $49423.18 |
16:52 |
asciilifeform |
!w poll |
16:52 |
watchglass |
Polling 17 nodes... |
16:52 |
watchglass |
185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect! |
16:52 |
watchglass |
84.16.46.130:8333 : Could not connect! |
16:52 |
watchglass |
185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect! |
16:52 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=697216 |
16:52 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.141s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=697216 |
16:52 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=697216 (Operator: whaack) |
16:52 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.153s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=697216 |
16:52 |
watchglass |
54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.171s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=697216 |
16:53 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.150s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=697216 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
16:53 |
watchglass |
143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.234s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=697216 |
16:53 |
watchglass |
208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.220s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=697216 |
16:53 |
watchglass |
54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.331s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=697216 |
16:53 |
watchglass |
213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.389s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=697216 |
16:53 |
watchglass |
103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.614s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=697216 |
16:53 |
watchglass |
71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.897s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=697216 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
16:53 |
watchglass |
176.9.59.199:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length! (Operator: jurov) |
16:54 |
shinohai |
asciilifeform: A cryptopunk is where you sell .jpg copy of a head from a 1988 Nintendo game for thousands/millions in ETH |
16:54 |
watchglass |
192.151.158.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.) |
16:56 |
punkman |
in 2014 terms, cryptopunks are an implementation of "colored coins" |
16:57 |
punkman |
with people pretending a jpg is equivalent to painted canvas and can be owned/traded |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
17:13 |
asciilifeform |
aa these |
17:14 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: any idea what made that liquishit return ? ( or -- never entirely disappeared at all ? ) |
17:27 |
billymg |
weren't the "cryptokitties" in 2017 the same thing too? i think they just rehash it during each hype cycle to distract from btc and divert funds from btc into eth |
17:30 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: pyramids, i suspect, 'will be with us always'. |
17:30 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-05-05 19:32:50 asciilifeform: sergey mavrodi of 'mmm' was at 1 pt richest man in orcistan. and even sat in parliament. still died broke and folx came to shit on his grave. |
17:30 |
asciilifeform |
a possibly moar interesting observation is that the 'stupid will lose their coin to the smart' prophecy of mp et al did not (detectable) come to pass. |
17:31 |
asciilifeform |
'smart' may be a null set. |
17:31 |
asciilifeform |
(or at any rate among bitcoinists...) |
17:31 |
asciilifeform |
*detectably |
17:33 |
punkman |
asciilifeform: is passing just fine |
17:34 |
punkman |
we can see coins parked at "cold" addresses at increasing rate |
17:34 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: how wouldja distinguish this from the commonplace 'luser loses his keys' ? |
17:35 |
asciilifeform |
( or the also not uncommon 'dies capt.kidd-style w/out sharing key with heir' ) |
17:35 |
punkman |
I'm talking about kilocoin addresses |
17:36 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: how does mass enter into it ? |
17:37 |
asciilifeform |
plenty of kilocoin addrs w/ lost (by all indications) keys, incl. likely shitoshi's |
17:37 |
punkman |
because "microstrategy" is quite less likely to lose key than derp in 2014 |
17:38 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: that microstrategy ? did they publish their addrs ? (why would do this?) |
17:38 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-07 19:35:18 mats: microstrategy llc, has the biggest btc stash among public corps https://bitcointreasuries.net |
17:38 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2020-10-27 13:54:19 thimbronion: asciilifeform: the claim is that the btc is now in cold storage, in the posession of Microstrategy. They haven't published their storage scheme. |
17:43 |
punkman |
I'm seeing the addresses accumulate, seeing the news of "microstrategies" buying kilocoins, perhaps the correlation is imagined. |
17:43 |
punkman |
but my bet is that big players are indeed accumulating |
17:45 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: imho is interesting to contemplate the q of the theoretical limits of (any) organization's seekrit-keeping capacity. |
17:46 |
punkman |
the derp that lost 500 btc to "pirate", is losing maybe 0.5 btc to "pirate2021" |
17:46 |
asciilifeform |
arguably prior to bitcoinism, absolutely no bitstring was of a 10k-2021-btc 'bearer instrument' worth. |
17:47 |
asciilifeform |
(not even a hypothetical 'pill for rsa' kept at ft meade underneath pillow of lizard hitler's throne, perhaps) |
17:48 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: re pirate -- probably factual, but presupposes that 'pirate' himself will not lose to anyone |
17:48 |
punkman |
the derp of integer btc, is not derp of integer bitcent |
17:48 |
punkman |
*now |
17:49 |
punkman |
pirate can lose to usg or whoever else, and a bit later it's in hand of "microstrategy" that doesn't play dice or throw away usb key |
17:50 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: right; so q is, whether microstrategy et al are qualitatively different kinds of organization with somehow infinite secret-keeping ability |
| |
↖ |
17:51 |
asciilifeform |
and 100% airtight electronics |
17:51 |
asciilifeform |
and 100% loyal employees; etc |
17:53 |
asciilifeform |
( the song & dance w/ 'multisig' and its pre-btcism equivalents is just that -- for one thing, often enuff a privkey physically exists ~somewhere~ prior to being 'split' ; for other thing, just about erry organization uses some form of 'unprincipled exceptions'; or else 1 or 2 plane crash -> total loss potentially ) |
18:00 |
asciilifeform |
... there's, imho, an inherent 'engineering contradiction' b/w the traditional 'organizational continuity' of an item like microstrategy or nsa, and the approach req'd to hold on to coin on a decade+ timescale. |
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↖ |
18:00 |
punkman |
for organization of many people, could say btc is quite like storing physical item worth millions, with the added downside of being much easier to sneak out the building |
18:01 |
asciilifeform |
... and impossible to return |
18:01 |
asciilifeform |
... and virtually impossible to say (if it were done with even half a brain) who did it or how. |
18:02 |
asciilifeform |
not to mention that traditional 'xyzmillion dollar items' (e.g. rembrandts) were NOT bearer instruments |
18:02 |
asciilifeform |
and generally ~useless to steal |
18:02 |
asciilifeform |
(try fence a rembrandt for anywhere close to its Official value) |
18:03 |
asciilifeform |
whereas a 10kbtc privkey is worth 10kbtc. |
18:05 |
asciilifeform |
other interesting aspect (if obvious one) is that the circle to whom a btc privkey is useful, is of almost planetary width ( janitor finds -- he can use) unlike the proverbial h-bomb plans , seekrit formulae etc |
18:11 |
punkman |
we'll see how the big stashes of 20/21 fare, maybe chinese spies get them like all those "trade secrets" they've been stealing |
18:12 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: maybe 'we find out', maybe not |
18:12 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-09 06:14:47 punkman: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-08#1050664 << good example of "didn't find out, after all". what did we "find out later" about 9/11? even talking about it 20 years later, sort of makes you a weirdo |
18:15 |
asciilifeform |
(for the thick readers -- just because coin 'moved' does not mean that it changed hands; and conversely, simply because ~hasn't~ moved, does not prove that there is not a second party in possession of privkey... ) |
| |
↖ |
18:25 |
punkman |
when loss happens, there will be the SFYL |
18:25 |
punkman |
conversely, if there was no SFYL, did loss even happen |
18:26 |
asciilifeform |
'the bezzle'(tm)(r) |
18:26 |
asciilifeform |
(happened, but 'lazy-evaluated') |
18:28 |
punkman |
doesn't that guy make the point that "hasn't actually happened before point of evaluation" |
18:29 |
asciilifeform |
galbraith ? |
18:29 |
punkman |
yeah |
18:29 |
asciilifeform |
was his contention, yes |
18:31 |
asciilifeform |
(imho sophistry. it 'happened' when it happened, just like yer shot when shot, not when fall down) |
18:37 |
* |
asciilifeform won't be surprised if eventually reich mandates and attempts to enforce key escrow for 'organizational' (i.e. reich-registered orcs) held coinz |
| |
↖ |
18:38 |
asciilifeform |
*orgs |
18:42 |
punkman |
a utxo visualization https://utxo-stats.com/ |
18:42 |
punkman |
if I'm reading the blue part correctly, it's concentrating |
18:51 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: 'Updated August 03 2019, 16:18 at block height 588457' << rip ? |
18:52 |
punkman |
seems like I might have to make my own |
18:53 |
asciilifeform |
' Each pixel represents a block, where each row is 300 blocks (~50 hours). The orange image displays the number of unspent transaction outputs per block, and the blue shows the combined value in BTC of those outputs.' |
18:53 |
asciilifeform |
^ not clear from this that 'concentrating' (at least, per the picture) |
18:53 |
asciilifeform |
seems opposite -- dispersing ? |
18:54 |
asciilifeform |
if 'number of unspent outputs per block' -- increasing (as the graphic implies) |
18:54 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: perhaps whaack could easily make a similar graphic, iirc he recently completed a wwwistic trb block browser |
18:55 |
punkman |
https://www.blockchain.com/charts/utxo-count from 8mil utxo in 2014 to ~80mil now |
18:56 |
punkman |
yes the previous visualization is kinda useless |
18:56 |
asciilifeform |
soo, then where's the 'concentrating' ? |
18:57 |
asciilifeform |
( can't deny that it may be happening from avail. evidence -- but cannot say that it is, necessarily, likewise ) |
18:57 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-23 14:11:20 asciilifeform: (for the thick readers -- just because coin 'moved' does not mean that it changed hands; and conversely, simply because ~hasn't~ moved, does not prove that there is not a second party in possession of privkey... ) |
18:57 |
asciilifeform |
if anything -- seems entirely opposite |
18:57 |
asciilifeform |
wb bingoboingo |
19:09 |
billymg |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-23#1053423 << this property of bitcoin seems like cause for optimism (if you can survive long enough). it would also undermine these kinds of schemes by the reich |
19:09 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-23 13:56:08 asciilifeform: ... there's, imho, an inherent 'engineering contradiction' b/w the traditional 'organizational continuity' of an item like microstrategy or nsa, and the approach req'd to hold on to coin on a decade+ timescale. |
19:09 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-23 14:33:24 asciilifeform: won't be surprised if eventually reich mandates and attempts to enforce key escrow for 'organizational' (i.e. reich-registered orcs) held coinz |
19:10 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: 1 caveat is that only ~actual~ bitcoin has this property; papercoin, otoh, behaves similarly to erry other previously known type of paperism |
19:11 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: right, but this concedes there's an advantage to the individual vs. the organization |
19:14 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: unrelated, i'm trying to configure dulap with xorg and dwm but one of the deps for xorg isn't found on your repo, 'app-eselect/eselect-mesa-0.0.10-r1' |
| |
↖ |
19:14 |
billymg |
i can't remember if dulap is meant strictly as a headless distro or can be configured with dwm |
19:16 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: there was a box 'with head' among the machines which collectively went into that repo; but it had ancient x |
19:18 |
* |
asciilifeform recently completed a gentoo box w/ xorg and using circa-2021 packages strictly, save for gcc (where 4.9) and w/out any systemdisms which crept in since the '16 cut date of dulap-gentoo ; so can confirm that it is possible. but sadly no time to document the process atm |
| |
↖ ↖ |
19:19 |
asciilifeform |
there was a considerable amt of manual fiddling w/ USE flags for individual builds. and mesa defo was on this list. |
19:20 |
asciilifeform |
here's 1 link re subj; will eventually post the rest |
19:20 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-05 15:41:05 asciilifeform: 'Get ride of systemd-tmpfiles' |
19:21 |
asciilifeform |
... the process took 2+wks of nights/weekends ftr. |
19:21 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-01 21:26:37 asciilifeform: blew days on trying to transplant 'AMDGPU' to dulap-gentoo. so far w/out success. |
19:26 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: https://g3ngr33n.github.io/systemd-openrc/index.html << this is for excising any remaining traces of systemd from "stock" 2021 gentoo? |
19:35 |
billymg |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-23#1053471 << also if the output of this effort is ~= to a "2021 dulap" i'd pay to have a copy |
19:35 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-23 15:13:39 asciilifeform: recently completed a gentoo box w/ xorg and using circa-2021 packages strictly, save for gcc (where 4.9) and w/out any systemdisms which crept in since the '16 cut date of dulap-gentoo ; so can confirm that it is possible. but sadly no time to document the process atm |
19:45 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: i'ma repeat the exercise 'from 0' a la 2016 when i get a chance (if lucky -- december!) and make a new repo w/ the resulting /usr/portage/distfiles and instruction. |
19:46 |
asciilifeform |
( if someone beats me to this -- will not be sad, quite opposite ) |
19:47 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: looking forward to it, i really like dulap for its ease of installation |
19:47 |
asciilifeform |
fwiw contrary to asciilifeform's expectation -- did not need to resort to gcc5 or later for any package (tho is possible to eselect and use evil gcc if req'd; evil-gcc's do build w/ godly one ) |
19:47 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: if you consider disk image as 'easy installation' lol |
19:48 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: regarding the css for your logger theme, what was the goal for the table? have it always stretch to full width rather than size of elements and centered? |
19:48 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-20 15:34:20 asciilifeform: ( to be clear -- is asciilifeform's 'fit width' kludge which turns to soup, rather than billymg's css fix from yest. ) |
19:48 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: wanted to fill width, but to cleanly spill to N rows if req'd |
19:49 |
billymg |
seems to sort of be working that way, at least in chromium |
19:49 |
asciilifeform |
seems to work on e.g. x86 chrome ; but on crapple pnojes etc -- crumples into wreck |
19:49 |
billymg |
ahh |
19:49 |
billymg |
and what are the reqs for lynx rendering? |
19:50 |
asciilifeform |
that all links are legible, elementarily |
19:50 |
asciilifeform |
under all browsers. |
19:50 |
asciilifeform |
imho is not overly ambitious for simple item like this. |
19:51 |
asciilifeform |
legible and without horiz. scrolling. |
19:51 |
asciilifeform |
horizontal scrolling is to be killed with fire and sword. |
19:51 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: right, but iirc it was also a requirement of yours that the channel links be displayed in a horizontal row in lynx |
19:51 |
asciilifeform |
one or more horiz rows. |
19:51 |
asciilifeform |
as req'd to fit'em all. |
19:52 |
asciilifeform |
(this currently only concerns 'show all' mode obv.) |
19:52 |
billymg |
right |
19:52 |
billymg |
ok, i see the problem in ios now lol |
19:52 |
billymg |
kind of an amusing result |
19:53 |
asciilifeform |
atm asciilifeform has 1) no idea why breaks on crapple 2) not remotely the time to try to find out. but if anyone does -- plz write in. |
19:54 |
asciilifeform |
i suspect that The Right Thing there would be to actually crank out multiple tables, w/ say 3 entries each max. and that nuffin short of this will cover 100% of possible browser idiocies. |
19:54 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: going back to lynx, i can't think of how you'll ever achieve something different than what you have now, since all CSS is ignored |
19:54 |
asciilifeform |
cssism is arguably bogus approach |
19:55 |
billymg |
so it's gonna render based off your <table> tag structure only |
19:55 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: lynx wraps lines tho |
19:55 |
billymg |
iow works as you want out of the box? |
19:55 |
billymg |
if so, that's good |
19:55 |
asciilifeform |
hrm now looks like in lynx -- 1 chan/line |
19:56 |
asciilifeform |
so no, not as it oughta be |
19:56 |
asciilifeform |
(in fact entirely wrecked under lynx -- there are not correct line breaks b/w the last-change times and chan names) |
19:57 |
* |
asciilifeform brb |
19:59 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: i think that was a result of your latest css changes, see http://logs.bitdash.io in lynx |
| |
↖ |
20:00 |
billymg |
(i switched it to the classic theme with <table> chanlist layout temporarily to test this) |
20:04 |
billymg |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-08-23#1053516 << sorry, i meant a result of your latest html changes (CSS has absolutely 0 effect on lynx) |
20:04 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-23 15:55:06 billymg: asciilifeform: i think that was a result of your latest css changes, see http://logs.bitdash.io in lynx |
20:05 |
billymg |
looking at the patch though it looks like you tried a similar approach to what i attempted back when i was working on these themes |
20:07 |
billymg |
where you keep the channel together with their last active timestamps together in respective table cells (which imo is semantically and ordinally the right approach) |
20:08 |
billymg |
but breaks in lynx because of its limited table rendering capabilities |
20:10 |
* |
billymg fought with this for quite some time actually, until eventually gave up and provided two separate chanlist templates, one based on <table> to work with classic.css and to asciilifeform's specs in lynx, and one based on <ul> which renders as a stacked list in lynx (and however you want in graphical browsers, depending on the css) |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
20:27 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: i suspect that the Right Thing would be to throw out 'table' and simply hardcode N (e.g. 3) chan/time per line, with paragraph markers, and styled to fit screen width. |
20:27 |
* |
asciilifeform sadly does not have the cycles to experiment atm |
20:27 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: i'm happy to help with this |
20:27 |
asciilifeform |
why ty billymg |
20:27 |
* |
asciilifeform will try out patch if billymg comes up w/ one |
20:28 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: not sure how that hardcoded approach would help with lynx though |
20:28 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: it does seem to faithfully render paragraph breaks. so i expect it would |
20:28 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: right, but does it send e.g. "viewport width" to the server so the server can calculate the right number of lines to send back |
20:29 |
billymg |
i was assuming your solution was a server side solution |
20:29 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: correct -- notion would be to simply stuff e.g. 1st 3 chans/times into a para, then 3 more, etc. generated on server end. |
20:29 |
billymg |
is 3 arbitrary? |
20:29 |
billymg |
or based on width of client (if server can somehow know this) |
20:30 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: conservative guess of 'how many would fit in every known horiz screen width w/out spillage' |
20:30 |
billymg |
ahhh |
20:30 |
billymg |
that makes it easy at least |
20:30 |
asciilifeform |
at this pt i'm convinced that there is not a clean, cross-browser solution to this or to anyffin else, that doesn't reduce to 'pretend it's 1993' |
20:30 |
billymg |
ok, gonna switch my logger back to its default theme |
20:31 |
asciilifeform |
cssism tricks ALWAYS, seems, break ~somewhere~ |
| |
↖ |
20:31 |
asciilifeform |
and unpredictably. |
20:31 |
asciilifeform |
and if not today, then tomorrow. |
20:31 |
asciilifeform |
whole concept of 'web standards' is a malignant crock of shit. |
20:33 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: not disagreeing, but i do know (as a result of being paid to know) how to work around most of these issues |
20:33 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: i switched mine back to my theme, take a look in lynx and see if you still hate the vertical stacked chan list |
20:33 |
asciilifeform |
right, but the workarounds have a strong flavour of voodoo -- they consist of incantations which are tested empirically, via brute force, and when they fail -- no rational explanation for why fail (or conversely -- when do not fail) appears to exist anywhere |
20:34 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: still stacked. (but now -- correctly paired chan/time , at least... ) |
20:36 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: yup, this is my personal preference for lynx. would you be opposed to that for your theme? (if so can nuke chan-list-table.html and users only need to switch css file to go between themes, not also the template file) |
20:37 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: is improvement over previous. (so long as not changes how graphical browsers display) |
20:37 |
punkman |
unspent coinbase outputs quite stable around 2mil BTC https://checkonchain.com/btconchain/minerbalance_pricing_usd/minerbalance_pricing_usd_light.html |
20:38 |
asciilifeform |
punkman: linked graphic seems to concern specifically block reward addrs, neh ? |
20:38 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: wish you would've told me that months ago when i was working on it! lol |
20:38 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: i thought q was re porting the lynx fix to asciilifeform's theme |
20:39 |
asciilifeform |
( asciilifeform does not like sidebarism in any form and will not use it in his logger instance ) |
20:39 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: it is, i had baked a classic.css theme that worked with this html |
20:39 |
asciilifeform |
right, my current item is based on same |
20:39 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: my vpatches are built on top of your item, i thought this was clear |
20:41 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: yes, was clear, but my patch had two html variants for the chanlist: 'chan-nav-table.html' vs 'chan-nav-list.html' |
20:41 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-08-23 16:05:46 billymg: fought with this for quite some time actually, until eventually gave up and provided two separate chanlist templates, one based on <table> to work with classic.css and to asciilifeform's specs in lynx, and one based on <ul> which renders as a stacked list in lynx (and however you want in graphical browsers, depending on the css) |
20:41 |
billymg |
your theme works with the table-based, mine works with the list-based |
20:42 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: a hm, i thought the list-based piece only worx w/ the sidebaristic 'dark' theme |
20:42 |
billymg |
this was because i assumed the vertical chan list in lynx was a hard req, and due to lynx's limitations could not get timestamps to sit under chan names without doing two rows (and having a weird tab order of chan, chan1, chan2, chan_ts, chan1_ts, etc...) |
20:42 |
* |
asciilifeform will have to reread whole thing |
20:43 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: nope, in fact had a css ready to go that would render in graphical exactly the same as you had on your theme prior |
20:43 |
asciilifeform |
hmm i thought this ~was~ 'classic.css' |
20:43 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: it is. two separate considerations: graphical rendering and lynx rendering |
20:45 |
asciilifeform |
btw asciilifeform must confess that he does not actually use lynx with any serious frequency. simply insists that any wwwtronic item of his ~must~ behave sanely in it, because in practice this ensures reasonable behaviour across graphical browsers. |
20:45 |
asciilifeform |
it is a kind of procrustean bed for www crapola. |
20:45 |
billymg |
to keep that 100% 1:1 with your previous theme (in lynx), had to keep the table. in graphical browsers, can switch to <ul> based and render exactly how you had it (and even make the improvements you want, such as auto wrapping) |
20:46 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: i.e. different browsers would get different html ? ( that's specifically not what asciilifeform wants ) |
20:46 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: no, same html, always |
20:46 |
asciilifeform |
a |
20:47 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: the lynx/graphical differences are just a result of lynx completely ignoring any and all css |
20:47 |
* |
asciilifeform possibly confused re what in the current vpress corresponds to the item in question |
20:48 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: your latest patch, style_fixes, did away with the two-row chanlist (where, roughly: <tr> chans... </tr> <tr> timestamps... </tr>) |
20:48 |
billymg |
which is what broke the lynx styling |
20:48 |
billymg |
i saw you added <br> tags, but lynx ignore those if used inside tables |
20:48 |
asciilifeform |
billymg: correct. so far i've not found a way to make a multi-row table 'wrap' |
20:49 |
asciilifeform |
anyways if billymg has an alternative variant, i'ma test it (reasonably quickly) |
20:49 |
* |
asciilifeform must bbl |
20:50 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: and in lynx you probably never will, lynx table rendering appears to be meant strictly for tabular data, not for layout tweaking |
20:51 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: my alt variant that i recommend is what you can see currently on my logger (in lynx, in graphical would be identical to your current theme but with properly wrapping rows) |
20:55 |
billymg |
asciilifeform: end result would be: 1, in lynx: what you see now on logs.bitdash.io, 2, in graphical: what you see now on logs.nosuchlabs.com. all clients (lynx, chromium, phones, etc.) would receive the same html, no server side tricks |