Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2019-08-24 | 2019-08-26 → ↓
00:00 asciilifeform there's defo a... market, for vpnism, just like there is a market for 'mail drops' to relay goods bought with stolen cc's, etc. just not clear that it's a market you'd want to be involved in.
00:05 asciilifeform observe that a literate user leasing a whole box, can trivially use it to forward his packets wherever. but turn-key 'service' of this, draws 9000 units of fire for erry unit of profit, by attracting the redditus. there's a reason why all existing vpnisms are honeypots , underwritten by usg moar or less directly.
↖
00:08 asciilifeform trinque: that being said, mircea_popescu's 'uci' is prolly closest thing to 'sane vpn'. but not exactly in scope of piz, we dun have a fleet of 1e6 pwned boxen or anyffin of the kind.
↖
00:13 trinque you should build for from whom you wish to take money, not yourself
00:13 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930840 << this is interesting enuff to merit own answer. on 3Ghz opteron, and with bvt's asm , could perhaps get even 28 kbaud ! of rsa..
00:13 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-24 23:57:09 trinque: I'm not addressing whether he actually needs a VPN, but how hard is it to take p crypto and make a VPN?
00:15 asciilifeform trinque: re 'build for from whom', i cannot possibly disagree. but extremely skeptical that vpnism ~can~ be supplied economically by honest (i.e. not subsidized by washington) vendor, even in principle.
00:17 trinque current limiter is the lack of fat pipe, eh?
00:18 asciilifeform most immediately yes. current pipe would comfortably seat -- and that's if it were otherwise empty -- perhaps 4 or 5 warez leechers
↖
00:19 asciilifeform each of whom would be willing to pay perhaps even equiv of 20bux/mo. i.e. collectively not even 10% cost of that pipe ..
00:21 asciilifeform this also touches so far strictly cost of pipe, and omits cost of disposal of the 1st 'genius' who starts serving 'pedo club' or spam emporium or whatever other attractive nuisance via his acct
00:22 asciilifeform ( and if yer running a vpnism that tries to fulfill promise of 'no logs', you won't even know which user it was on acct of whom the upstream plug pulled )
↖ ↖
00:25 asciilifeform i entirely wouldnt mind trying to serve that market; but suspect that it would need to be done from pyongyang, rather than montevideo.
00:26 asciilifeform ( aand w/ errybody involved having already left 'the big zone'. )
00:29 trinque this is possible. I'll think on it more.
00:29 trinque going to turn in for now, night.
00:29 asciilifeform nighty trinque
00:30 asciilifeform ty for picking up the puzzler. fwiw i think erry day about it, but not made anyffin that could be termed breakthrough.
00:30 * asciilifeform also bbl,meat
~ 2 hours 13 minutes ~
02:44 diana_coman !!up ave1_away
02:44 deedbot ave1_away voiced for 30 minutes.
02:45 ave1_away diana_coman: thx! I'm currently in the carpathian mountains, enjoying nature here
↖
02:46 diana_coman oh hey, nice! going to Ro too?
02:46 ave1_away so yes, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-24#1930659, but I should be back next week
02:47 ave1_away No, unfortunately not on this trip. Ukrainian part is big enogh for now
02:47 diana_coman heh, big but also nearby :P
02:48 ave1_away I'm thinking of going here by car next year, wich would make us a lot more flexible
02:48 ave1_away Or see about renting something big, the way these orcs drive
02:51 diana_coman ave1_away: taxis shouldn't be all that expensive either
02:52 ave1_away My days this week will be very much; get up / shower, enjoy big breakfast, enjoy long walk in the mountains, swimming, nice meal from wood fire, get to bed and fall asleep immediately
02:53 ave1_away even with all the walking, I'm fattening up nicely
02:55 diana_coman sounds like a very restful break at least
02:58 ave1_away taxis are not expensive at all, but I did not yet find one I would trust to drive me more than 100km
03:01 diana_coman hm, not sure I follow what's the breakpoint of drive-trust at 100km
↖
03:01 diana_coman strictly on the face of it, you'd just move by 100km per taxi then, lol.
03:03 ave1_away well, drive locally where they know their way vs drive further, 100km simply magical cutt-off in my brain
03:04 ave1_away most taxis here, cars from early nighties, non working suspension, no belts etc.
03:05 ave1_away Currenlty we've been using the train for long distance
03:05 diana_coman heh, comes with nice meal from wood fire (and the smoke too, came instantly to mind )
03:07 ave1_away yes, train definitely sovjet experience
03:10 ave1_away as for sjlj + gnat, I've been thinking about it more. Next week I'll bite the bullet and genesis gcc firt.
↖ ↖
03:11 ave1_away The build script will then be based on this genesis
03:12 diana_coman sounds clear and a firm starting point to work from at least
03:15 diana_coman !!up ave1_away
03:15 deedbot ave1_away voiced for 30 minutes.
03:21 ave1_away somehow, I was think that I should genesis the build script first
03:21 ave1_away and then have diffs of patch files
03:22 diana_coman ave1_away: well, the build script requires all sorts so it makes sense to have as genesis a complete starting point if possible
03:22 ave1_away but then, while walking I thought, no, it needs to be the other way around
03:24 ave1_away first genesis all the parts, next build scripts (if at all needed by then)
03:24 diana_coman makes sense
03:33 ave1_away well, breakfast ready, so bbl
03:44 diana_coman enjoy!
03:45 diana_coman !!up ave1_away
03:45 deedbot ave1_away voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 3 hours 45 minutes ~
07:30 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930823 << this is the golden ticket here.
07:30 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-24 23:45:07 trinque: moreover are there enough customers that care?
07:31 mircea_popescu this "Solve problems as you run into them, anything else is premature optimization" groove's apparently very easy to slip out of, but it is TRT.
↖
07:31 mircea_popescu re awstats : there's no rule you gotta run it on the machine i nquestion. awstats will process ~any~ log in most standard formats, can just have an awstats box.
07:31 mircea_popescu all it wants is the hitlog.
07:32 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930831 << yes, but there's WAY the fuck better payoff for that "week or two" of effort than wiping a pizarro disk
↖
07:32 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-24 23:50:19 asciilifeform: atm bar is set scandalously low. pretty much anyone can format hdd (or subtler vandalism) of a shared linux box he has any form of acct on, with week or 2 of effort.
07:33 mircea_popescu all they need to say is hi!
07:34 * mircea_popescu is rater on alf's side re vpn product notion ; though this may be borne of ignorance, i don't think i ever bought one.
07:36 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930853 << naah. when i set up my experimenta lfilm server, i had 1gpbs dedicated to it, and... FILLED.
↖
07:36 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-25 00:18:11 asciilifeform: most immediately yes. current pipe would comfortably seat -- and that's if it were otherwise empty -- perhaps 4 or 5 warez leechers
07:37 mircea_popescu (yes, believe it or not, i ran a "all films reviewed on trilema" server for like... a year. to see if anything interesting happens. major pipe and everything, came to high four figures all told, mostly hardware, soem sweat to get it up.
↖
07:37 mircea_popescu NOTHING interesting turned up. i don't mean, "low five figures' worth of interesting". not a benjie's worth. feeding the-horde-that-expects-to-be-fed is not merely -ev. it is 0ev.)
↖
07:39 mircea_popescu it was, i guess, sorta pleasant to see the thing keep the pipe full at all times, 100s of conns, if you do the math that's 4232690270208000 bytes' worth of good films i contributed to the ethers.
07:41 * mircea_popescu chalked it up against his mitzvah account an' moved on.
07:45 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930856 << yes. the empire of stupid may be ~ultimately~ stupid, but up to there it's constructively stupid, can't just wade in head on
07:45 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-25 00:22:59 asciilifeform: ( and if yer running a vpnism that tries to fulfill promise of 'no logs', you won't even know which user it was on acct of whom the upstream plug pulled )
07:46 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930866 << you wanna have a cuppa coffee in timisoara sometime this coming week ?
07:46 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-25 02:45:24 ave1_away: diana_coman: thx! I'm currently in the carpathian mountains, enjoying nature here
07:47 mircea_popescu oh. keks, we missed each other in ukrlands. how didja like kiev ?
07:48 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930878 << well, you get out of urbanity ? im guessing.
07:48 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-25 03:01:02 diana_coman: hm, not sure I follow what's the breakpoint of drive-trust at 100km
07:49 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930885 << sweet.
07:49 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-25 03:10:54 ave1_away: as for sjlj + gnat, I've been thinking about it more. Next week I'll bite the bullet and genesis gcc firt.
08:00 spyked http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930885 <-- imho the right thing would be to eventually steal "everything". i'ma definitely do that for hunchentoot, tho I expect it'll take a while, given that I keep stumbling upon binaries and utfisms in these coads
08:00 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-25 03:10:54 ave1_away: as for sjlj + gnat, I've been thinking about it more. Next week I'll bite the bullet and genesis gcc firt.
08:00 snsabot Logged on 2019-07-27 12:51:02 mp_en_viaje: as far as your practical example : do not genesis parts ; include the 12 things in yoru genersis if they are needed.
08:01 mircea_popescu aha
08:07 spyked http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930601 <-- the way I read mircea_popescu's comment re. blog was "if you're doing something interesting, then it's worth documenting". e.g. I know zilch about making red cents and would read if trinque found it worthwhile to write about his experience.
08:07 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-24 09:53:42 trinque: on the blog front, I've got some weird brewing in response to the tlp seroquel annotation.
08:07 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-24 00:28:22 trinque: it's not IRC trivia that drives me away from you lot. it's the bizzare godman worship with *no intent whatsoever* to put in the work to make a red cent.
08:07 mircea_popescu there's no specific rule that documentation must be limited to success.
08:07 mircea_popescu documentation attaches ~to activity~.
08:08 mircea_popescu that's the logic : if it's worth doing, it's worth doing human-ly, which is to say reviewably ; and since one can't claim entire classes of fundamentals aren't wroth doing, the absence of X or Y topic is significant of weakness.
08:10 mircea_popescu i suppose this "document success only" heuristic is the one most poisonous gift society has to offer.
↖
08:11 spyked IMHO examination of failure also counts as "interesting"; mircea_popescu has plenty examples of that on trilema
08:11 mircea_popescu yes, it is true, illo tempore, in ages long past, with expensive paper process, this was a useful approach. but today, it is counter-productive.
08:12 mircea_popescu spyked, it's just the secular, momentuous change of detaching documentation from success and attaching it to activitry plain and simple that's the major significance of current it.
08:21 spyked mircea_popescu, agreed. it's also what newton et al. used as a method and what academia could (I guess) have been if it hadn't devolved into the current shitshow.
08:21 mircea_popescu just about.
08:21 mircea_popescu but yes, historically, this was the longest held and dearest desire of all thinking men buried before we came :
08:21 mircea_popescu that they might have ink and paper to write their things down
08:22 mircea_popescu npow, we do.
↖
08:22 mircea_popescu it's the pinnacle of stupid to go "now that we do, we dun wanna".
~ 1 hours 8 minutes ~
09:31 mircea_popescu !!withdraw 0.09776 1KQ6jRPaa9RneTYMppJiMCsd1RqMeQM8H
↖
09:31 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SoUGl/?raw=true
09:31 mircea_popescu trinque, ^ plox
09:35 mircea_popescu and lemme say i can't recommend namesilo enough. they turned out to be exactly the needed pill, but their bitcoin integration is actually so good, it interfaces with deedbot directly!
09:35 mircea_popescu if every wanna-be corp out there actually followed their model, shit would actually work!
~ 32 minutes ~
10:08 mircea_popescu !!rate -10 princessnell http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924146
10:08 mircea_popescu !!ledger
10:08 mircea_popescu !!received-invoices
10:08 deedbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/VeSsB/?raw=true
10:08 mircea_popescu !!sent-invoices
10:08 deedbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wr2Xq/?raw=true
10:08 deedbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4ulEq/?raw=true
10:17 mircea_popescu hm
10:17 mircea_popescu !!rate -10 princessnell http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924146
10:18 mircea_popescu is the rating broken ?
~ 36 minutes ~
10:54 trinque nah, just swap it around
10:55 trinque ack re: above
10:55 trinque and I'm using a namesilo too per your recommendation, great service!
~ 30 minutes ~
11:25 mircea_popescu o ic
11:26 mircea_popescu !!rate princessnell -10 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924146
↖
11:26 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qtGzK/?raw=true
11:27 feedbot http://thewhet.net/2019/08/localbitcoins-cracked-corn-and-i-dont-care/ << The Whet -- Localbitcoins cracked corn, and I don't care.
~ 48 minutes ~
12:15 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930902 << not always TRT (and in fact is how we ended up with x86 etc)
12:15 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-25 07:31:06 mircea_popescu: this "Solve problems as you run into them, anything else is premature optimization" groove's apparently very easy to slip out of, but it is TRT.
12:16 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930905 << 'format hdd' was merely example, did say 'or subtler vandalism'
12:16 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-25 07:32:56 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930831 << yes, but there's WAY the fuck better payoff for that "week or two" of effort than wiping a pizarro disk
12:17 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930909 << even 1 leecher will 'fill' if you have no ration cap, lol. i was speaking of how many could even be served, at something like reasonable bw, by given pipe.
12:17 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-25 07:36:13 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930853 << naah. when i set up my experimenta lfilm server, i had 1gpbs dedicated to it, and... FILLED.
12:18 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930912 << approx same as feeding pigeons in the park
12:18 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-25 07:37:57 mircea_popescu: NOTHING interesting turned up. i don't mean, "low five figures' worth of interesting". not a benjie's worth. feeding the-horde-that-expects-to-be-fed is not merely -ev. it is 0ev.)
12:21 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930934 << sorta why asciilifeform elaborately documented an' genesised e.g. 'M'
12:21 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-25 08:10:15 mircea_popescu: i suppose this "document success only" heuristic is the one most poisonous gift society has to offer.
12:21 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930942 << nao, shortage is instead time, in which to read, rather than ink.
12:21 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-25 08:22:04 mircea_popescu: npow, we do.
12:24 feedbot http://ossasepia.com/2019/08/25/the-new-old-vilnius-of-2019/ << Ossa Sepia -- The New Old Vilnius of 2019
12:34 mircea_popescu "to automate and opiate" eh ? notbad.
12:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, that it is ; which is how you end up with entire swathes of maculature (usg "scientific research" or "news media" as prime examples) rejected out of hand.
12:47 mircea_popescu but this is a good thing!
12:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: wasn't even thinking of the maculature, but of e.g. fact that thus far only asciilifeform has signed the logger . shortage of time does not disappear once subtracted the maculature.
12:51 mircea_popescu also tru
12:53 diana_coman asciilifeform: while ^ is true, signatures seem to be more than "lack of time" though; afaik you read EuCrypt and actually satisfied yourself re MR implementation for instance but I don't recall any signatures from you - or did I just miss them?
12:53 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930963 << dug through logs, tryin' to recall whothefuck was princessnell and how merited this 'honour', found ~0 -- must've been in 'era 1'
12:53 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-25 11:26:07 mircea_popescu: !!rate princessnell -10 http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-22#1924146
12:53 mircea_popescu zzzing
12:54 asciilifeform diana_coman: this aint even the most egregious example, there's trb patches ~by asciilifeform~ that have since been reground that iirc i haven't signed yet
12:54 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, mentioned recently, now writes stultifying government copy re "immigrants" at la times.
12:54 asciilifeform diana_coman: backlog on conveyor 1000km long
12:56 diana_coman well yes, that is pretty much a given as soon as one starts doing useful stuff; but it still implies that signatures on *other people's* stuff are back of the queue while at the same time you see lack of signatures on your stuff as "nobody reads!"
12:57 diana_coman to link it also to earlier trinque's thread "nobody reads"
12:57 asciilifeform diana_coman: the tree trunk in asciilifeform's eye, the mote in other's, simply examples!111
12:57 mircea_popescu lmao
12:59 BingoBoingo http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930818 << asciilifeform I don't have AWS installed anywhere, but we do have an access.log
12:59 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-24 23:38:39 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo when you wake up -- do we have site stats ?
13:02 mircea_popescu fwiw awstats is iirc a perl script
13:02 BingoBoingo http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1930847 << This is my understanding of the VPN thing. It's a market that demands Germany's subway tunnels of fiber because folks want to eat all the torrents they can through them.
13:02 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-25 00:08:42 asciilifeform: trinque: that being said, mircea_popescu's 'uci' is prolly closest thing to 'sane vpn'. but not exactly in scope of piz, we dun have a fleet of 1e6 pwned boxen or anyffin of the kind.
13:07 BingoBoingo http://archive.is/wPG7p << 3.33 USD monthly paid annually from the USG folks that stick their ads everywhere that should know better
13:10 diana_coman asciilifeform: lolz; but leaving the examples aside a bit, it seems to me that there is currently a lack of incentive to signing; basically people perceive it more as a liability (perhaps: I signed that and...what if I'm wrong/made a mistake??) than a gain;
13:10 diana_coman other people's signatures are good and wanted but that's about as much as it seems to go so far.
13:17 mircea_popescu but that's the fucking gain. "o look, i made a mistake".
13:17 mircea_popescu how the fuck is that a negative ?
13:19 diana_coman mircea_popescu: I should have said: what if I get negrated for having signed it while it still contains a mistake/something I overlooked; basically a too-perfect-vision of it or how to put it
13:19 mircea_popescu aha.
13:20 mircea_popescu i dun think anyoen's getting negrated for being imperfect.
13:20 BingoBoingo http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wyswl/?raw=true << Their list of gateways shows what one would come to expect from shitgnomes. Clustered around places where USG already clusters their stuff, which... is probably the only way to build a VPN service that offers speed. This means UCI, sucking off the enemy, or a sad indefensible inbetween.
↖
13:20 mircea_popescu so far the bar seems more in the vein of the exact opposite, "seeking to hide imperfection"
13:22 diana_coman indeed it does
13:25 diana_coman but it's a more difficult thing to catch as it were: as above, it's unclear if "no signature" is a sign of "seeking to hide imperfection" or of "no read" or wtf already
↖
13:25 mircea_popescu myeah
~ 47 minutes ~
14:13 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1931008 << for extra lulz, no e.g. ru in the list. ( and in fact whole list consists of a) nato reich b) quasi-satellites, e.g. brazil/india )
14:13 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-25 13:20:14 BingoBoingo: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wyswl/?raw=true << Their list of gateways shows what one would come to expect from shitgnomes. Clustered around places where USG already clusters their stuff, which... is probably the only way to build a VPN service that offers speed. This means UCI, sucking off the enemy, or a sad indefensible inbetween.
14:24 asciilifeform ftr asciilifeform is solidly convinced that vpnism, aka 'hide my ip!1111' derpery, is a fundamentally braindamaged 'solution' to a fundamentally misconceived problem. (to which the 1 and only possible ~actual~ solution is a 100% gossipd-style net which treats the older ip net the way the latter treats ethernet & co.)
14:25 asciilifeform all the pseudo-solutions reduce to variations on the tired old theme of 'tor'.
14:29 asciilifeform btw, for n00bz : try some time and actually subscribe to a 'vpnism'. you'll quickly see 9000 spam/day offering other products for the irredeemably-gullible, same as if you order 'colloid silver' or similar snake oil. it's a conveniently-affixed leper's bell on obvious, broad-daylight scamola of erry kind, they trade lists of chumps
14:31 trinque you're again describing products you would use
14:31 asciilifeform see also re 'lists'.
14:31 snsabot Logged on 2016-08-07 12:36:39 a111: Logged on 2014-11-26 04:23 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: at one point i needed some conductive cloth (the kind with silver strands) for an experiment. to my great surprise, i discovered that there is a large manufacturer in usa, and they do brisk business with folks suffering from precisely the kind of phobia described in decimation's link.
14:31 trinque there are not enough yous to fill a bowling hall
14:31 mircea_popescu actually, it's not altogether clear there is another one.
14:33 asciilifeform trinque: do you recall mircea_popescu's piece where 'offensively stupid poor' ?
14:36 asciilifeform trinque: dun mistake asciilifeform's pos. for 'it is loathesome, ergo i want no part in selling'. rather, describing why the product only even appears to exist because is convenient bait for usg fish hooks in the 1st place. consider, how could supply a warez bandwidth for people who expect to pay 3 $ / mo ? i dun even know if possible to supply a length of rope with which they can hang selves, for 3 $ !
14:48 asciilifeform trinque: i haven't even touched on the ethical q of whether one ought to help usg herd the illiterate 'weevs' into gasenwagen by peddling faux-'anonimities'. disputing rather the very idea that ~anyone~ actually turns a profit in 'vpnism' other than by cashing cheques directly from washington.
14:52 trinque there's a thread right this moment on one of the heathen pits on which vpn should I use
14:53 trinque as for the "checks from washington" I think you bring your soviet experience into these things without first going and looking
14:54 asciilifeform trinque: maybe i'ma tard ? where in free world do i buy for 3 $ the GB/s bandwidth i can then sell to a weev for 3 $ ?
14:54 mircea_popescu asciilifeform, the part you're missing is that the entire array is not made out of the one-worst-apple
14:54 trinque I'm criticizing the approach.
14:54 trinque not telling you where to source.
14:54 mircea_popescu most people buying a vpn spent 5-10 bucks a month on 12 cents or so worth of usage
14:55 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: rright, all except for the inevitable customer who opens 'pedo paradise' and incurs 12,000 $ worth of bill
14:55 trinque I'm not trying to insult you, but this is exactly the "and anyway if I did" loop.
14:56 mircea_popescu by this logic, can't have a cup of coffee. too risky.
14:56 mircea_popescu COULD be poisoned
14:56 trinque most likely is, because satan has control of all vessels of darkness
14:57 asciilifeform mircea_popescu had a piece where 'if malpractice suits cost 100,000 $ and chance is 0.1%, procedure aint ever costing anywhere close to 100 $ '
14:57 mircea_popescu it's not clear to me what we're discussing here.
14:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the economics of selling vpnism relays
14:58 mircea_popescu you're allowing yourself to be misdirected. just get the peopel looking for the item called "vpn" in empire universe on a rk or w/e the actual item is
14:58 trinque ^
14:59 trinque and control w/e fraction of the pipe they get to use
14:59 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: is what i said in beginning of thrd, neh.
14:59 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-25 00:05:14 asciilifeform: observe that a literate user leasing a whole box, can trivially use it to forward his packets wherever. but turn-key 'service' of this, draws 9000 units of fire for erry unit of profit, by attracting the redditus. there's a reason why all existing vpnisms are honeypots , underwritten by usg moar or less directly.
14:59 mircea_popescu just because they call it x in their fantasyworld has ~little bearing.
14:59 trinque no, there is no market of you
14:59 trinque this would make me sad if I felt like being sad, and I don't.
15:00 mircea_popescu "a literate user" is nonsense in this context.
15:00 asciilifeform trinque: what means 'of you' ? setting up packet relay on a leased box aint exactly high arcana
15:00 mircea_popescu basically alf is willing to do anything whatsoever but sell.
15:00 trinque you really need to hang out with some early 20s kids.
15:00 trinque if it isn't a red dot they tap and that's it, they're not doing it. and you have nobody else to farm.
15:02 asciilifeform trinque: could easily offer e.g. rk w/ preconfigged whatevers. but do you suppose these '20s' will pay 70 $ for 10kB/s , instead of lulazon's 3 $ / 100MB/s ?
15:02 mircea_popescu in a word, yes.
15:02 asciilifeform then wainot !
15:03 mircea_popescu cuz you're nto talking to them
15:03 mircea_popescu people, by and large, WILL DO WHAT YOU TELL TJHEM TO.
15:03 mircea_popescu not "what you'd do in their place", not "what's good for them", "logical" or otherwise.
15:03 trinque the "it'll all be pedo traffic" is the other end of the "my precious children, can't let 'em bike down the street"
15:03 mircea_popescu people do what told to do.
15:03 trinque there are statistically no pedos
15:04 asciilifeform trinque: i'm not even convinced that 'pedos' in the contemplated sense , physically exist. it's simply the costume usg puts on when bulldozing isps.
15:05 mircea_popescu it is quite unlikely anything like the usg socio-politico-legalo-wankist notion of "pedophile" exists in reality, yes.
15:05 mircea_popescu then again black dudes regularly come out ~average wrt penis sizes, seems to do nothing for the meme.
15:06 asciilifeform spammers, however, sadly do exist, and pose the obvious headache, the vendor that'll supply bw for ~arbitrary~ packets, no matter of what, does not afaik exist (outside of perhaps pyongyang]
15:06 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-25 00:22:59 asciilifeform: ( and if yer running a vpnism that tries to fulfill promise of 'no logs', you won't even know which user it was on acct of whom the upstream plug pulled )
15:07 mircea_popescu neveryoumind that part, jeez.
15:07 mircea_popescu the last time anyone came even vaguely remotely close to anything like that, danielpbarron got his walking papers and the problem went away the same day.
15:08 asciilifeform troo
15:08 mircea_popescu why do you stubornly refuse to see, internalize and use the working process, notwithstanding it was both explained and displayed for your examination
15:08 mircea_popescu and isntead sit there and wank idiotically about what is little mroe than "what i read in playboy letters".
15:09 trinque if I can go briefly upstack, the proposal from me is to try things. vpn is just the first thing that came to mind.
15:09 mircea_popescu in the EXTREMELY unlikely case you actually get a user you don't want, can just rate and move on.
15:09 trinque if it's proved there's no market there, great, then you iterate moar
15:09 mircea_popescu but this'd be a marked improvement over the stiuation where you got no user at all.
15:09 trinque average derp has no idea what a box is, let alone what to do with it
15:09 trinque but average derp can install a vpn client by clicking on something.
15:10 mircea_popescu ONLY thing is, gotta talk to people. and tell them "here, is a thing, USE IT!".
15:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: for my education, work through example where vpn customer starts sending spam. how do i even determine ~which one it was~ w/out loudly and publicly breaking the promise to the customers which makes the idea of relay appealing to start with ?
15:10 mircea_popescu sending it from where ? a rk box ?
15:11 asciilifeform if each 1 gets own rk, it'd have to cost at least same as what rk presently priced.
15:11 mircea_popescu nobody handles email by hand anymore, wtf, everyone is on google. if some douche wants you to install smtp on the shared server you just frown.
15:11 asciilifeform i thought idea (of orig thrd) was re how to monetize a large monolithic multicpu box.
15:11 trinque yeah, http(s) is the only thing anyone does
15:11 mircea_popescu why the fuck would you put smtp on it ?!
15:11 trinque the kids don't even torrent anymore
15:11 trinque they want to watch HBO from lithuania or w/e
15:12 mircea_popescu ^
15:12 mircea_popescu this is kinda the bw-intensive use, and obv uy is no good for this
15:12 asciilifeform trinque: and you think this can be done via a 200MB/s pipe in BingoBoingostan ??
15:12 mircea_popescu "fake in-reich ip"
15:12 asciilifeform aha
15:12 mircea_popescu aka miami-for-rent
15:12 asciilifeform it'd be ideal use for a 'uci' net, yes
15:12 trinque asciilifeform: I want to have a discussion that takes longer than the enumeration of your preconceptions.
15:13 * asciilifeform in fact encountered several working cases of 'uci'-style nets, set up by various folx, for this
15:13 trinque the lulzy thing is your contempt for the lulcow could be reoriented *around* the milking, instead of lactose-intolerance
15:13 mircea_popescu huh ?
15:14 trinque I dunno man, that metaphor went way off the rails
15:14 trinque lol
15:14 asciilifeform trinque: i'm 100% through enumerating, lol. will go into read mode for a spell, if trinque has specific 'get this obv. $item through yer thick head!' i will read.
15:14 trinque he doesn't want to talk to the stinky poor
15:14 * asciilifeform gotta go into meat chore shortly
15:14 mircea_popescu i don't think he wants to talk to anyone, in general.
15:14 trinque trying the vpn thing is cheap, could be done easily while you still have coffers to try something else
15:16 asciilifeform trinque: i'm actually all for offering it as a preconfigged variant of rk . my objections were 100% re the traditional variant, where all packets nominally become part of an indistinct outgoing soup via 1 shared ip.
15:16 trinque I am not prescribing implementation.
15:17 trinque maybe you, the operator of the service, do know what happens on it. maybe your covenant is to *not* share pipes with pedobearpig. it's all about muh datas and muh privacies, you see.
15:17 asciilifeform me neither (and if anyone can think of a 3rd variant that i've omitted, plox to write in.)
15:18 mircea_popescu just.talk.to.people.
15:18 mircea_popescu holy hell...
15:21 trinque on that subj, going to sit down and write for a bit
15:32 BingoBoingo <trinque> they want to watch HBO from lithuania or w/e << More to the point they want to watch US HBO/Netflix/etc from wherever rather than the local mirrors on their own ISP's network
~ 3 hours 37 minutes ~
19:10 mircea_popescu http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930814 << heh, from back when i was rooting for debian / wanted to believe.
↖
19:10 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-24 23:35:44 asciilifeform: meanwhile: today's trilemalotto .
~ 1 hours 35 minutes ~
20:45 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-25#1931115 << i suppose it was your 'gentoo', heh. ( as i understand, debian perished approx. at same time as gentoo. )
20:45 snsabot Logged on 2019-08-25 19:10:26 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-24#1930814 << heh, from back when i was rooting for debian / wanted to believe.
20:46 asciilifeform ~'07-08.
20:48 asciilifeform ( iirc ian m. wasn't shot till '15. but was already long vegetable by then )
~ 46 minutes ~
21:34 trinque not even an unreasonable gentoo at a certain time.
21:34 trinque had the src build story
21:35 asciilifeform trinque: iirc author went quisling in '08
21:37 trinque gentoo guy called his memberberries "funtoo" if it tells us anything.
21:37 trinque that's what was lost y'see, the fun
21:43 * asciilifeform vaguely aware of a 'funtoo' but never personally touched.
21:45 trinque it's the original dood after he gave gentoo over to the committee
↖
21:45 asciilifeform a.
21:46 asciilifeform had, apparently, the nerve, to 'after', lol
~ 15 minutes ~
22:01 BingoBoingo "Technology should be fun, powerful and free." << from funtoo.org
22:02 BingoBoingo And right below that: "Keychain helps you to manage SSH and GPG keys in a convenient and secure manner. It acts as a front-end to ssh-agent and ssh-add, but allows you to easily have one long running ssh-agent process per system, rather than the norm of one ssh-agent per login session."
22:09 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: almost interesting how monotonously 'same' these 'funtoos' are.
22:10 asciilifeform from 'i lost mah keez!111 and pgp obsolete!' zimmerman, to this.
22:23 feedbot http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/charting-the-charlotte-bdsm-scene-part-one-capex/ << lobbesblog -- Charting the Charlotte BDSM Scene, Part One: CAPEX
~ 56 minutes ~
23:20 trinque > What was the meaning of the action?
23:21 trinque man I find lobbes such an entertaining character, and not in some kind of diminutive way.
23:22 trinque lobbes: I'm not even ripping on you
23:22 trinque you just have this comical precision regarding which I'm too inarticulate to define why I'm amused
23:24 trinque > and also ingesting the ashes throughout as he puffed it down
23:26 trinque meanwhile I'm over here writing this denuding, batshit piece. I think what's funny to me about lobbes is he may be the exact counterpoint to my narcissism
↖
← 2019-08-24 | 2019-08-26 → ↑

Random(trilema) | Download hourly DB snapshot | Get Source Code

Theme: Light | Dark | System Default