#trilema | 2019-02-05

pest - 1d 14h
trilema - 1026d

Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2019-02-04 | 2019-02-06 → ↓

00:05	verisimilitude	What?
		~ 24 minutes ~
00:29	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i sent him to reg w/ deedbot an' try voicing, deliberately, d00d spoke at my explicit invitation.
00:30	mircea_popescu	why's he voice himself on a different nick then ?
00:30	mircea_popescu	anyways.
00:42	verisimilitude	If you're referring to my earlier disconnect, that was an accident.
		~ 1 hours 32 minutes ~
02:14	verisimilitude	I'm looking through more of these Ada links you provided earlier, asciilifeform; do you not use Ada 2012?
02:29	mircea_popescu	!!rate verisimilitude -1 children, seen and not heard.
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02:29	deedbot	Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4ZZTh/?raw=true
02:29	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform Would you do me a favour and drill into the randos some basics of etiquette before inviting them over / rating them ?
02:29	mircea_popescu	There's really no need for pompous assholes vomiting their self importance all over the log. Dude hasn't read at the very least the basics, can't ~possibly~ be fucking welcome here, let him go to reddit or whatever an' be happy there.
		~ 6 hours 12 minutes ~
08:41	asciilifeform	'where they cut off yer lips when they don't like yer smile!'(tm)(r)(disney)
08:42	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i gotta admit i'm baffled, d00d asked re whether i used ada2012, that's breach of etiquette ?
08:44	asciilifeform	maybe coupla thou noobs with working hands alive; i catch 1 in the wild, and mircea_popescu uses for target practice, i dunget.
08:50	diana_coman	asciilifeform, I must admit I fail to see what did the guy actually contribute; moreover he asked as far as I can see signalling questions, nothing more; granted, they were related to Ada but that's about the only positive I can find in the whole log I had to go through; perhaps it's simply too early for him to be here? maybe first have something done and only then come and show it?
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08:51	asciilifeform	diana_coman: it's a teachable n00b, as suggested by his www. similar to e.g. bvt .
08:51	asciilifeform	i dun recall having myself walked in with a mega-contribution on day1 either
08:52	diana_coman	for one thing it's not that year anymore, perhaps that's the missing bit there
08:52	asciilifeform	diana_coman: i.e. we have all the hands we'll ever want ?
08:53	diana_coman	asciilifeform, no, how do you jump to that?
08:53	diana_coman	there is both need and space for more hands; but their training is to happen in the castles-channels, not directly in #trilema; that's my current understanding at least
08:54	asciilifeform	i'ma wait till mircea_popescu speaks for himself and clarifies, but that seems to be his position
08:54	asciilifeform	also will ask mircea_popescu to expand re when, exactly, one oughta invite folx from castle.
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08:55	asciilifeform	( once they have magnum opus and not prior ? )
08:57	diana_coman	asciilifeform, for my curiosity: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892640 -> how is this ANY different from all the other "hey guise, I'ma signal nao" ; by now the "what do you think of X" is almost a signal in itself
08:57	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 01:40 verisimilitude: Let's seque to a related topic: What do you think of the Suckless crowd, asciilifeform? I read their mailing list and it's interesting to see how everything UNIX already provides is good and natural and how anything that violates the sacred tenants whatsoever is evil and bloat.
08:58	asciilifeform	diana_coman: so apparently he hadn't read all 7 yrs of log. tho mircea_popescu did not say that this was why got the boot.
09:00	diana_coman	fwiw my current (even recently updated!) rule for "when to invite" is ~ "when they are either asking intelligent questions in side-chan already OR have made something useful OR have a concrete, interesting proposition explored first in side-chan"
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09:00	diana_coman	not suggesting there might not be other cases or anything but so far that's what I see
09:01	diana_coman	asciilifeform, mno; quite sure we already had this thread already though so I'll let it rest
09:01	diana_coman	and at any rate if it needs stating: I'm talking for myself here, not for mircea_popescu
09:03	asciilifeform	eh if mircea_popescu says 'you aint ready to graduate kindergarten' i aint about to dispute an' 'no, let's graduate'im to 1st grade'. was curious re the logic, is all.
09:05	asciilifeform	asciilifeform's kindergarten currently is permissive (so long as folx are reasonably low-traffic) on acct of not being particularly packed.
09:06	diana_coman	but that's the point: side-channels are permissive, #trilema is not; and on the sharp end of it, coming in too early can result in negrate
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09:08	asciilifeform	i dun have a dispute re the principle, it's The Right Thing.
09:14	asciilifeform	diana_coman: posssibly i oughtn't to graduate'em till they solve all the ffa homeworks.
09:14	asciilifeform	( in all srsness )
09:15	diana_coman	that sounds not bad at all really
09:15	asciilifeform	can't see how could go wrong with that.
09:16	asciilifeform	the puzzlers aint actually that painful imho.
09:29	asciilifeform	re ada2012, that was actually a good q, and i'll answer it for the log : ffa in fact uses preconditions, a 2012 knob.
09:30	asciilifeform	( theoretically will build on a 2005 or prior adatron, if they are removed, if one must. )
09:32	asciilifeform	truly vintage (ada-83) won't eat ffa, there is use of 'in out' parameters.
09:33	asciilifeform	this can be worked around, but would add gnarl, and i won't touch it unless someone gives a compelling argument re why oughta build on a -83.
09:34	asciilifeform	-83 won't build diana_coman's proggy either, there was no tasks annex in -83.
09:37	diana_coman	yes, I need Ada 2012
09:37	asciilifeform	diana_coman: fwiw i didn't end up on 2012 blindly, actually walked the feature ladder and consciously picked.
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09:40	diana_coman	well, I really started with 2005 but then I had to upgrade, hence my "I need". It's not blindly,no.
09:40	asciilifeform	wasn't implying that diana_coman picked with dartboard, lolno.
09:41	asciilifeform	diana_coman: i orig had mine set to '05 also.
09:43	asciilifeform	re preconditions : theoretically they allow for certain optimizations ( mythical 'sufficiently smart compiler' could infer that various range checks cannot be violated if precondition holds ) but afaik our gnat doesn't do this, and i'm not certain that i'd like it if it did
09:43	asciilifeform	they do make elementary mistakes in calling coad 100x moar obvious tho, and therefore are a win imho.
09:44	asciilifeform	i.e. they're the 'suspenders' in a 'belt and suspenders' tandem.
09:49	asciilifeform	on that subj, attentive ffa reader will notice in certain places asciilifeform marked in comment 'cosmic ray resistance' . this indicates mechanisms where there are two or more separate pieces that ensure a correct computation (or death with alarm bells) if somehow bit flips , when this is inexpensive.
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09:52	asciilifeform	( typically this is where an arithmetic has been proven not to overflow, the overflow is connected to a Word of 'NoCarry' type, i.e. whose range is 0 .. 0 . )
09:53	asciilifeform	in the 'battlefield' release, all exceptions will be caught by handler that prints 'iron is damaged, replace immediately'
09:54	asciilifeform	( this is ~already~ true, simply not yet connected to the bell. )
09:56	asciilifeform	on hardwarized ffa variants, this output is to be connected to either an actual bell, or at least red 'sad' lamp.
09:57	asciilifeform	incidentally this is a feature that used to be standard on 'adult' comps, but was lost in the pc babel of 1980s
09:57	asciilifeform	gotta indicate to owner when a piece of iron has realized that it is going south.
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		~ 19 minutes ~
10:16	lobbes	!!v 1D7DFBBE5095A736915C2E489F51D7A8E3D26076C2EEF9897A31EFF62B55A459
10:16	deedbot	lobbes rated lobbes_field 1 << my handle for when I'm in the $saltmines
		~ 1 hours 12 minutes ~
11:29	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform no but listen, this "republic ?! we ain't heard of no stinkin' republic here in bedford, indiana!" quaintness might've been at some point even tolerated -- but it was always ~tolerated~, and in the terms of "oh, check out this moron".
11:29	mircea_popescu	like you'd tolerate illiteracy in five year olds, or more generally http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-20#1882319 slash http://bingology.net/2019/02/04/ring-lardner-and-confronting-my-own-inner-hayseed/#selection-57.0-63.103
11:29	a111	Logged on 2018-12-20 00:45 asciilifeform: y'know full well that engineers can't find own head from arse in 'fields easier to observe'
11:29	mircea_popescu	besideswhich, that "some point", whenever it was, certainly was not later than say http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-14#1834669 -- a year ago is ancient history at the rate we go.
11:29	a111	Logged on 2018-07-14 16:50 asciilifeform: oh hey woodchipper day
11:29	mircea_popescu	#trilema is the forum of the most serene republic, not "an irc channel" or whatever other http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-03#1869074 -bred nonsense / "consumers have come to expect", and i don't give shit one whether the yokels think they have or think they haven't one in "their" town.
11:29	a111	Logged on 2018-11-03 15:04 mircea_popescu: there he sits, remote in hand, "checking to see if there's anything interesting on the tv". are we ready to entertain him yet ? or does he come back later ?
11:30	mircea_popescu	the republic both wholly owns and actually made "their town", as well as themselves and everything else. the relationship is exactly of the nature of http://trilema.com/2018/heres-something-you-dont-see-nearly-often-enough/#selection-119.75-119.401
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11:33	mircea_popescu	now you tell me how you distinguish between case http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892453 and case ~everything this dood spewed. there's http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876356 on the record, and i wasn't kidding then, either.
11:33	a111	Logged on 2019-02-04 22:13 mircea_popescu: much unlike naggum's mythical perl, doods sit around doing nothing all day with their reward circuitry so blownout, they literally fail to understand that no, "your message was too long" is an inacceptable reaction to the situation where "my phone is uselessly broken"
11:33	a111	Logged on 2018-11-30 04:52 mircea_popescu: next shit out of your dumb mouth fails to string match apologizing for being quite so fucking stupid, i'ma fix the negligence whereby you can still speak here.
		~ 17 minutes ~
11:51	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: fair'nuff
11:52	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i'ma bring larvae in strictly once they pupate, as discussed earlier with diana_coman .
11:52	asciilifeform	( haven't grown any to pupae yet, but whoknows, possibly 1 day )
11:59	asciilifeform	meanwhile, in 'thought we hit bottom but then heard knock from below' in heathendom, https://archive.is/lFXpf << a chowdhra type Officially calls for nobus to be made Official doctrine
12:00	asciilifeform	'Without an available fix it seems irresponsible to disclose such a vulnerability ...' etc
12:05	mircea_popescu	but of course.
12:08	mircea_popescu	http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892747 << this is a proper question, if not one easy to answer. i believe spyked is correct in http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/082-tmsr-schedule-i.html#selection-55.152-55.393 ; i will not go as far as to say "noob must only be invited at senate once he, like bunyan's hero, understands this is literally the only that does or could matter". nevertheless, it is evidently premature to invite any
12:08	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 13:54 asciilifeform: also will ask mircea_popescu to expand re when, exactly, one oughta invite folx from castle.
12:08	mircea_popescu	one before they even understand this thing at all is.
12:09	mircea_popescu	people visit the senate as a museum all the time, even schoolkids manage it alright. but they do it ~knowing where they are~, it seems to me you do an orc grave disservice if you don't even mention a thing such a town may exist, then take him there. obviously naive extension of whatever shiteating passes in his wilderness will get him thrown out.
12:10	mircea_popescu	the only thing*
12:10	mircea_popescu	hey phf ben_vulpes and, i guess Framedragger : can i prevail upon you to have (just one) logotron recognize [url][anchor] syntax and render it as <a href=url>anchor</a> instead of the literal ?
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12:10	asciilifeform	some folx seem to know how to grow n00bs that walk in and set to work right off ( iirc diana_coman had one ) but asciilifeform not achieved this wonder of yet
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12:11	mircea_popescu	did you mention teh matter at all in conversation ?
12:11	asciilifeform	which matter
12:12	asciilifeform	how to behave ? it aint codified as such anywhere afaik. read noob's www, assumed -- cultured.
12:13	mircea_popescu	no. that this here is the republic, which is the all-sovereign, whereas the "united states government" is a tax dodging unrecognized group of social misfits, and so following.
12:14	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: usually i give'em a link to the log, where can read this & other likbez at leisure.
12:15	mircea_popescu	and then they don't, because http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/ still very much a thing, and slaveworld mindset very much still http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892453 and so on.
12:15	a111	Logged on 2019-02-04 22:13 mircea_popescu: much unlike naggum's mythical perl, doods sit around doing nothing all day with their reward circuitry so blownout, they literally fail to understand that no, "your message was too long" is an inacceptable reaction to the situation where "my phone is uselessly broken"
12:15	mircea_popescu	if you want to change anything, change the thing where you fail to mention to kids that there's such a thing as sex until well after they've either been undone by it or somehow, through no fault of your own, survived.
12:17	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu had a http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/ , since marked obsolete. i suspect state of the art is still 'read log for year and come back if grasped'
12:19	mircea_popescu	for lack of a better entry point i'll stick with http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892214 ; unless someone wants to write a purpose-cut item
12:19	a111	Logged on 2019-02-03 21:04 mircea_popescu: spyked nice article! it might even end up the current linkpoint for the various http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-25#1889920 lost souls, "here, we know the future" item.
12:26	mircea_popescu	http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892739 << this is no small matter ; i ~expect~ a number of my own slaves to read each and every fucking line of this here log. it "takes nothing" to read a line until you start multiplying the lines and the readers. but what choice do they have, right, they're my slaves, if i order them that's an end to the matter.
12:26	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 13:50 diana_coman: asciilifeform, I must admit I fail to see what did the guy actually contribute; moreover he asked as far as I can see signalling questions, nothing more; granted, they were related to Ada but that's about the only positive I can find in the whole log I had to go through; perhaps it's simply too early for him to be here? maybe first have something done and only then come and show it?
12:26	mircea_popescu	THEN there's all the people who aren't my slaves, who STILL fucking read each line of this here log. also "doesn't take anything" ?
12:27	mircea_popescu	eventually you have to compare the marginal gain from "1 of maybe coupla thou noobs with working hands alive" with the marginal cost from "if i read one more redditline in the tmsr log ima tune it out".
12:28	mircea_popescu	this is why even the whole castle thing ever exists, to decouple the "well, kid needs to be able to practice his restaurant eating skills sometime" with the obvious "if there's one single further kiddy squeal out chez maxim half the seats will empty up"
12:28	asciilifeform	can't find what to dispute, tho will note that redditus-detector like any other detector oughta stay in calibration, if it's set off by gust of wind, it's not a detector at all
12:29	mircea_popescu	you propose this is what happened or you just talkin' in teh general ?
12:29	asciilifeform	general
12:29	mircea_popescu	quite agreed.
12:30	mircea_popescu	then again, 0 apparent awareness of the tmsr -> usg relationship is as fine a symptom as can be had, to the best of my knowledge.
12:35	asciilifeform	i still dun see an obv 'entry point' for noob in log tho. 'no royal road.'
12:35	asciilifeform	unwashed heathen who reads e.g. spyked's post, will understand 0.
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12:36	mircea_popescu	i suspect this is true.
12:39	mircea_popescu	and a valid concern, at that, education's an important part of the function of oxford.
12:47	asciilifeform	educable folx seem to be pretty thin on the ground tho.
12:48	mircea_popescu	in no small part because of the misperception that education is something that'll bend to fit them
12:48	asciilifeform	if there's a seekrit reserve of'em somewhere, asciilifeform not found yet.
12:48	mircea_popescu	once that's off the ground, as many as one third of the girlies are perfectly educable.
12:49	asciilifeform	we already iirc did the a:'so how many solved the ffa puzzlers' m : 'i wouldn't waste a precious trained gurl on such dirty works' thrd, dun have to replay.
12:50	mircea_popescu	doesn't seem a very fair summary.
12:50	asciilifeform	corrections welcome.
12:53	asciilifeform	i aint about to try an' tell mircea_popescu how to use his trained meats. but will remain skeptical that any trainable in the sense asciilifeform contemplates, until see with own eyes, is all.
12:58	mircea_popescu	are we talking here of "educable, as the process" or are we talking here of "educable, as to a certain goal" ?
12:58	mircea_popescu	whether he ever ends up euler or not, 5yo child is math-educable, provided that every time his mother goes "oh, poor darling shouldn't have to" she gets a black eye.
12:58	asciilifeform	narrow sense of educable-as-in-ave1 , i.e. capable of contributing to asciilifeform's load of heavy-lifting in particular.
12:59	asciilifeform	i cannot speak for that of other folx.
12:59	mircea_popescu	why would you be the one to set other's goals like that ?
12:59	mircea_popescu	educable as in positive delta over time, not educable as in, reaches ishtar gate before i get bored waiting.
13:00	asciilifeform	can't propose so far as to 'set goal', but will observe that the net # of mechanical moving parts currently fielded that came out of harem, is afaik 0.
13:00	asciilifeform	and yes if/when nicoleci or new one etc sends in an optimization for ffa arithm, i'ma take it back.
13:01	mircea_popescu	in the sense of, "the only surviving island of non-(engineeridiocy) is this here harem, and further, as part and parcel of my continued and systematic efforts to ensure failure, not only do i perceive this as a substantial lack of everyone else, but instead i'll propose that taking a sufficiently narrow view of the matter, it could almost be said the lacking parts don't even exist" ?
13:02	mircea_popescu	except the situation is exactly reversed : it's not nicoleci that's expected to improve on ffa, it's you that's expected to improve on http://trilema.com/2018/how-things-have-changed/#selection-489.0-501.257
13:03	asciilifeform	so my summary was 100% on, 'harem is crystalline perfect, and who are you to even suggest to sully it with dirty work'.
13:03	mircea_popescu	our problems currently flow around the strong rocks of "there's a bunch of engineers and 0.epsilon businessmen", and the solution to them eminently will not be in the vein you contemplate.
13:03	mircea_popescu	i still don't think so.
13:07	mircea_popescu	rather a) harems are by their nature private, and consequently the ~outermost limit~ of your interaction with another's will be along the lines of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851696 discussion.
13:07	a111	Logged on 2018-09-19 16:22 mircea_popescu: think of the whole opposability angle, will you. 1. alf : "your summaries suck" 2. bimbo "master, is this true ?" now i'm stuck. i'm not going to do a 3.b. "yes, because i like him" and i can't do a 3.a. "yes, because ~SOMETHING~" as the something's an undefined symbol.
13:07	asciilifeform	also if mircea_popescu says harem consists of sales genius , i'ma believe; but i haven't any direct evidence of subj.
13:08	mircea_popescu	and then b) why and wherefore is "work" defined in terms of "ffa improvements" ? thing's not even supposed to be ~improvable~.
13:08	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: also speaking of harem in the general case ( rather than strictly mircea_popescu in particular ), observation is narrowly 'no one yet reported that he trained a harem chix to work on mechanicals'. afaik.
13:08	*	mircea_popescu says no such thing ; but rather the things he says.
13:09	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform and why do they have to ?
13:09	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: ave1 managed to deliver a 50% cut in cpu cost, nonetheless (fixed inlining).
13:09	mircea_popescu	so ?
13:09	mircea_popescu	not that it's not a great achievement and hurray for ave1 ; but that, why's it to do with what we're talking about ?
13:10	asciilifeform	so, what's the implication, why do we even need working tech, why not sit around and smell own farts like aristotle & co ?
13:10	mircea_popescu	the implication is not re what we need, but re what they need.
13:10	mircea_popescu	education is this process whereby people are sharpened, not changed. if girl has it in her to outwrite your ffa, she conceivably will, and if not, she will not. why's this something i'm to fret about ?
13:10	asciilifeform	i dunthink i've the req'd yoga level of yet to make sense of this.
13:11	mircea_popescu	in short : the point here is that we control ~the process~ of education, not ~the outcomes~ of education.
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13:11	mircea_popescu	because we're still causes not purposes and all that. who the fuck gives a rat's ass about "what will be".
13:12	asciilifeform	'control outcomes' is red herring, i dun even know how to 'control outcome' of potted tomato plant.
13:12	mircea_popescu	precisely.
13:12	asciilifeform	can still observe that nobody's yet afaik grown truffle 'in captivity' tho.
13:14	mircea_popescu	where truffle is macro-expanded to "fixed my ffa" ?
13:14	asciilifeform	it's a concretization. dun have to be 'fix xyz', could be e.g. 'find how to grow working ic inside a metre^3 box' or any 1 of 9000 unsolveds.
13:15	asciilifeform	or for that matter the direly needed biznisgenius.
13:16	mircea_popescu	and how'd you discern if anybody did so grow or did not so grow ?
13:16	asciilifeform	can directly observe only that array of $problem remains open.
13:17	asciilifeform	whether 'not grown', or 'not deigns to show face', cannot discern.
13:18	asciilifeform	( in selected cases, e.g. where bernstein prefers to smoke crack rather than showing up , can discern. but their song is sung , not much to add to'em )
13:19	asciilifeform	to take 1 instance, say, the 'penetrate china' problem.
13:20	mircea_popescu	so, ultimately, the logic here goes thusly : 1) of all the parts of living animal, i choose spleen to be defined as "only relevant part", arbitrarily. because i really like spleens and i don't really understand anything besides them nor do i wish to or see why i should have to ;
13:20	mircea_popescu	2) none of those other cells like intestinal cillia, or muscle smooth and striated, or neuron, axon, whatever does anything measurable to enlarge the spleen. 3) thus therefore it can be concluded that properly speaking, the only things growing spleen are the spleen itself.
13:20	mircea_popescu	i don't even see the problem with this. though i must confess midly curious as to why it manages to occupy your time.
13:20	asciilifeform	happens, when you work on spleens for 20y.
13:22	mircea_popescu	you know, when it comes to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892810 hanbot 's actually the champ so far.
13:22	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 17:10 asciilifeform: some folx seem to know how to grow n00bs that walk in and set to work right off ( iirc diana_coman had one ) but asciilifeform not achieved this wonder of yet
13:22	mircea_popescu	not counts ?
13:22	asciilifeform	defo counts
13:22	asciilifeform	asciilifeform's score is ~0 to date tho.
13:22	asciilifeform	iirc all of mine died, like that chinese silkworm on moon.
13:23	mircea_popescu	but died leaving behind actionables!
13:23	asciilifeform	they did ??
13:23	asciilifeform	what did e.g. adlai leave
13:23	mircea_popescu	for instance, you discovered, much to your own surprise, that in fact you were treating republican discussion with your noobs exact way parents were treating discussion of fucking.
13:23	mircea_popescu	"will mention it no sooner than it no longer makes any difference!"
13:24	asciilifeform	i suppose they left dissectable corpses
13:24	mircea_popescu	indeed so.
13:24	mircea_popescu	but anyway, on the other lobe, if it does make a difference i will declare that i'm absolutely not wilfully persecuting alf descendants.
13:24	*	asciilifeform believes !
13:24	mircea_popescu	however it may seem from whatever angle howsoever chosen.
13:25	asciilifeform	btw at one pt i tried to read the pile of strange gabriel_laddel left in his smoking crater. was not able to make sense.
13:25	asciilifeform	was mostly comments tho, at least man knew how to write comments !111
13:25	asciilifeform	by the megabyte, even..
13:26	mircea_popescu	!!up lobbes_field
13:26	deedbot	lobbes_field voiced for 30 minutes.
13:26	lobbes_field	danke
13:26	asciilifeform	hm lobbes_field didntcha rate the field nick earlier ? ougtha work on own steam >
13:26	asciilifeform	?
13:26	lobbes_field	http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892833 << fwiw I've been (slowly) baking a "Why TMSR?" (In style of Mocky's 'why ada?') post that is to be aimed at a heathen audience.
13:26	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 17:35 asciilifeform: unwashed heathen who reads e.g. spyked's post, will understand 0.
13:26	asciilifeform	lobbes_field: neato
13:26	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i honestly don't think poor success rates with clinically relevant levels of self absorbed morons is necessarily something you'd be too worried about.
13:27	lobbes_field	asciilifeform I did rate, but away from any keys atm
13:27	mircea_popescu	that you tried, good. but to go, oh, adlai g_l etcetera O NOES... it's a little much.
13:27	mircea_popescu	lobbes_field i'll defo read!
13:27	lobbes_field	Anyways, I generally agree that there exists the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-22#1804603 problem (though, I'd argue the experience is not exclusive to pantsuit, but for anyone brought up in the usual 'amatuer' environment of usgistan)
13:27	a111	Logged on 2018-04-22 18:25 BingoBoingo: To pantsuit all of #trilema has to read as vexual as vexual reads to us
13:27	mircea_popescu	i believe.
13:29	mircea_popescu	it's becoming in any case quite fucking apparent.
13:29	mircea_popescu	it also happens to be exactly the inverted image of success, culturally.
13:30	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: verily, if you try an' bake an item that 'fits in ALL heads', end up with marx, christianity, etc
13:30	mircea_popescu	something like that.
13:30	asciilifeform	who wants ~that~ success, can go across the street and buy by the bucketload
13:30	lobbes_field	The difficulty to be able to give 'just the gist' is a good sign of something of substance
13:31	mircea_popescu	thinking about it, lobbes ' distinction actually stands. pantsuit included in amateur set, but not exclusively.
13:32	asciilifeform	funnily enuff , the verisimilitude fella's parting words were approx 'but wtf IS tmsr, can you give me gist at least!'
13:32	mircea_popescu	entirely avoidable beheading. mention it first, not last.
13:34	*	asciilifeform previously tried in the style of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892794 , but heathen's transformer windings tend to saturate and 'wtf, didja escape from nuthouse' and convo dun move no moar after that.
13:34	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 16:30 mircea_popescu: the republic both wholly owns and actually made "their town", as well as themselves and everything else. the relationship is exactly of the nature of http://trilema.com/2018/heres-something-you-dont-see-nearly-often-enough/#selection-119.75-119.401
13:35	mircea_popescu	is this a bad thing ?
13:35	asciilifeform	not for so long as we dun need the new spleen cells for anyffin.
13:36	mircea_popescu	but let's compare outcomes. 1) alf talks to noob, elides any mention of republic, noob passes whatever lite-qualifications, comes here, gets negrated ; 2) alt talks to noob, mentions republic, noob runs off screaming.
13:36	mircea_popescu	seems both produce the same amt of noob, ie , 0, but 2 produces less negratings. still better neh ?
13:36	asciilifeform	#2 beats 1, at least economizes log space.
13:37	asciilifeform	i'ma stick to 2 unless somebody suggests a viable 3.
13:37	mircea_popescu	so then. "convo dun move no moar after that" means ~little. spyked was reading trilema early enough, as evident in the various antiqua he can drag in. then... convo moved no more after that... for what, eyars ? and then it moved.
13:38	asciilifeform	tru
13:38	mircea_popescu	this "convo moves" thing is as decidable as "computer never halting"
13:38	asciilifeform	also tru. i have nfi for instance re whether e.g. Framedragger , halted
13:39	mircea_popescu	me either.
13:39	asciilifeform	or eaten by sea serpent or what.
13:41	mircea_popescu	i am not saying here you must always lead with the http://trilema.com/2016/cat-vorg-adnotated/#selection-145.1-145.46 (tm) or the equally celebrated http://trilema.com/2018/heres-something-you-dont-see-nearly-often-enough/#selection-25.0-25.85 (tm).
13:41	mircea_popescu	i happen to prefer excluding hard and early, but it's entirely my business, not some kind of universal model.
13:43	asciilifeform	seems like mircea_popescu's method beats the 'soft' 1 tho -- better that heathen shits himself outside of the gate than in
13:43	mircea_popescu	but still, by the time the one important thing, important to the exclusion of all others, was NEVER mentioned... something's wrong. i mean, just like http://trilema.com/2018/the-republic-without-mp/ except in the flavbour of... the republic without republic ? what possible sense does this make ?
13:43	asciilifeform	how does one go about mention without an agreed prior ?
13:44	mircea_popescu	whether you're willing to confront this or not, it's still factual that ~you~ wrote ffa at least ~in part~ because republic, and left to your own devices entirely you'd conceivably be http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892360 to this very day!
13:44	a111	Logged on 2019-02-04 17:18 asciilifeform: back when asciilifeform was spending his days putting robot arm through glass doors etc
13:44	asciilifeform	can say 'republic' but it's just a string to'em
13:44	mircea_popescu	this is very much a point. gotta find a prior, and to find you must look for it.
13:44	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: not only , but took 3+y of republic to wake up to that particular job needin' doin
13:44	lobbes_field	Fwiw when I first started reading logs/trilema in 2014, I alternated between lost/confused/disturbed/intrigued. Then I stopped reading entirely for almost 6 months. Then finally it "hit me like a shit ton of bricks (tm)" and I realized I -had- to start doing (i.e. there was no choice if I wanted to actually make a mark on the world)
13:44	mircea_popescu	three years is not a small number of years.
13:45	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: recall, i actually thought it was avoidable somehow
13:45	mircea_popescu	you know ?
13:45	mircea_popescu	men are but boards, rats are but water etc.
13:46	phf	mircea_popescu: is the idea that message like logotron will render it as just "logotron" in html?
		↖ ↖ ↖ ↖
13:46	lobbesbot	phf: Sent 1 week, 0 days, and 15 hours ago: <asciilifeform> plox to snarf ch.16, ty
13:46	mircea_popescu	phf linked, yes.
13:46	asciilifeform	ohai phf
13:46	*	phf waives
13:47	mircea_popescu	lol
13:47	mircea_popescu	waves, you silly!
13:48	phf	it feels more sophisticated with an "i" in there
13:48	asciilifeform	lol
13:48	mircea_popescu	a okiey
13:49	*	lobbes_field back to mines, bbl
13:52	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform reviewing history, there's a lot of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1853976 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854006 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854010 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-25#1854019 and so following. now, as a factual matter, the dood DID NOT give a shit, september to february. may i ask for my own curiosity what informs the "teachable" part in "teachable noob" ?
13:52	a111	Logged on 2018-09-25 00:21 mircea_popescu: !!up verisimilitude
13:52	a111	Logged on 2018-09-25 00:30 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: ever read the #trilema logs ? or just this minute found it
13:52	a111	Logged on 2018-09-25 00:32 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i highly recommend it, right now you're in approx the position of that random fella who sat down in a cargo plane and took off on a lark
13:52	a111	Logged on 2018-09-25 00:34 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: i have quite a few items in own notebook similar to yours, from decade+ ago. lemme guess, were you stuck on uninhabited island ?
13:53	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i read through his www, when he reappeared, and assumed that showed up on acct of having eaten log and having clue.
13:53	asciilifeform	evidently nope.
13:53	mircea_popescu	but why assume when could ask ?
13:53	asciilifeform	still puzzled re why reappeared if never bothered to read log.
13:54	mircea_popescu	precisely for the stated reason, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-03#1869074
13:54	a111	Logged on 2018-11-03 15:04 mircea_popescu: there he sits, remote in hand, "checking to see if there's anything interesting on the tv". are we ready to entertain him yet ? or does he come back later ?
13:54	BingoBoingo	<asciilifeform> also tru. i have nfi for instance re whether e.g. Framedragger , halted << iirc hooked on socialism?
13:54	*	asciilifeform suspects that his mental model of heathen is actually ~deteriorating~ with time
13:54	mircea_popescu	i believe this may well be true.
13:55	mircea_popescu	as you never put any deliberate effort into studying such, your only model is built passively and as you've been spending less and less time in the soup...
13:55	asciilifeform	even prior to republic, asciilifeform had a rudimentary compass, where 'comp would be a nifty item if it actually worked, nao where are there any people with half a brain who might care to see it fix'
13:56	asciilifeform	what i never had ~any~ grasp on is the folx without ~any~ compass.
13:56	mircea_popescu	i beg your pardon, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-01#1838623
13:56	a111	Logged on 2018-08-01 03:03 douchebag: I'm in AT&T Hall of Fame
13:56	asciilifeform	wat do they ~do~ when wake up ? drag to the slop bucket like prikoke ?
13:57	BingoBoingo	What, the JWZ's just wanna be, wanna get along
13:57	mircea_popescu	erryone got a compass. however, the two most widely sold models point squarely to Mom and own dick.
13:57	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: how does that scratch the itch of life tho. if 'want to get along', why not eat pistol sooner rather than later
13:57	mircea_popescu	takes some intensity to off self.
13:57	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: hence prikoke
13:57	BingoBoingo	Hedonistic adaptation, they always itch. Can't care
13:58	mircea_popescu	this is a good point. heroin addict cold turkey itches INSIDE THE VEINS.
13:58	mircea_popescu	what scratch ?
13:58	asciilifeform	dose 'scratches' neh
13:59	mircea_popescu	soothes, but not scratches. the problem with scratching is that the loop completer is only implemented in skin.
13:59	mircea_popescu	~all~ nerve terminations can itch ; only skin nerve contains the "scratched" response.
13:59	asciilifeform	is this how folx end up lopping off own limbs etc ?
13:59	mircea_popescu	yup.
14:00	asciilifeform	( only to then contract 'phantom' )
14:00	mircea_popescu	"defective". which, technically, it is.
14:00	asciilifeform	iirc g_l & his leg etc
14:01	mircea_popescu	i dunno what that was, very livresque reference to elliott, the whole foot thing.
14:02	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: I suspect it would do you well to carve out some time this week or next to take in the tract on America. The off season devolution models this very much and can't fairly be summarized.
14:05	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: i'ma get to it at some pt. currently hands full with 1) ffa 16b & 17 2) looking into to whom we gotta http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-03#1892227 3) speccing components for 2nd rk plant
14:05	a111	Logged on 2019-02-03 22:58 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: When do you anticipate having brain space/time available to revisit the mechanization thread?
14:06	asciilifeform	1000 pounds'a shit in 10 pound bag.
14:06	asciilifeform	ftr ch17 is mostly written, btw.
14:06	asciilifeform	it's where 'peh'.
14:07	asciilifeform	i.e. 'adult' prog lang, with functions, variables, loops (with capped # of max ticks) etc.
14:07	mircea_popescu	http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892752 << very much self-solving, "by the time they ask things that result in discussions you regret not having in #trilema"... well... why regret.
14:07	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 14:00 diana_coman: fwiw my current (even recently updated!) rule for "when to invite" is ~ "when they are either asking intelligent questions in side-chan already OR have made something useful OR have a concrete, interesting proposition explored first in side-chan"
14:08	mircea_popescu	eg http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-02#1891844 happened specifically because "hm, this private convo... shouldn't die in smg boardroom". not the first time, either.
14:08	a111	Logged on 2019-02-02 21:00 mircea_popescu: now, it seems to me the case that since there's little benefit in having more threads than cores, it is perfectly acceptable (in this situation) to hold these in an array set as to whatever maximum is reasonable. 32 or 64 or whatever count.
14:08	mircea_popescu	this doesn't map directly, but if diana_coman were a noob that'd be the time i'd be like, "btw guise..."
14:08	mircea_popescu	and it works equally well with the dead, it's the time when eg lardner ended up in log. and so on.
14:08	asciilifeform	lol 'if grandmother had balls'(tm)(r)
14:09	mircea_popescu	hm ?
14:09	asciilifeform	'if diana_coman were noob'
14:09	mircea_popescu	lol!
14:09	asciilifeform	i do wonder what diana_coman was like as a noob tho
14:09	mircea_popescu	she'd have no trouble at all getting an invite, huh ? such is the payoff of hard work!
14:09	asciilifeform	i dun actually know the orig story of diana_coman
14:10	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform actually, i can show you : http://trilema.com/2009/castiga-1000-ron-de-craciun/#comment-11652
		↖
14:10	asciilifeform	iirc was init eulora player
14:10	asciilifeform	aa so apparently pre-dates.
14:10	asciilifeform	oh hm interesting, ancient diana_coman www
14:11	asciilifeform	lol i've been trying ~not~ to collect moar http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892390 fodder, will have to shelve for laters.
14:11	a111	Logged on 2019-02-04 20:00 mircea_popescu: i guess ima put this in the report, "lost cto to binge reading ancient html site"
14:12	mircea_popescu	keks.
14:12	mircea_popescu	the problem with asking questions in here.
14:21	mircea_popescu	http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892758 << i specifically ~don't~ read them, among other real or imagined reasons specifically so i don't end up galled by some random infantilism and then carry it about.
14:21	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 14:06 diana_coman: but that's the point: side-channels are permissive, #trilema is not; and on the sharp end of it, coming in too early can result in negrate
14:21	mircea_popescu	allegedly i gall easily.
14:21	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu already teaches meat kindergarten, i dun expect he'd want moar for anyffin
14:22	mircea_popescu	that also.
14:34	mircea_popescu	re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892771 recall ye olden days of http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-26#1034672 / http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-26#1034674 ?
14:34	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 14:37 asciilifeform: diana_coman: fwiw i didn't end up on 2012 blindly, actually walked the feature ladder and consciously picked.
14:34	a111	Logged on 2015-02-26 19:35 punkman: asciilifeform: should I be looking at ada 2012 flavour?
14:34	a111	Logged on 2015-02-26 19:36 asciilifeform: none of the post-95 features are likely to be usable on a bare-metal build
14:35	mircea_popescu	but anyway, for completeness, the matter was more or less disposed may 2016 : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-04#1462227
14:35	a111	Logged on 2016-05-04 00:56 mod6: <+asciilifeform> in other nyooz, my 'ada 2012 ref man.' is here. << that's neat. thought we were leaning towards the '95 standard?
14:39	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: iirc Mocky actually captured all of the old ada threads in his review
14:39	mircea_popescu	aha.
14:39	mircea_popescu	you're right, that'd be the correct entrypoint.
14:39	diana_coman	http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893028 -> ha, 10 years!
14:39	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 19:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually, i can show you : http://trilema.com/2009/castiga-1000-ron-de-craciun/#comment-11652
14:39	mircea_popescu	mazel tov!
14:40	*	mircea_popescu looking back has had SUCH a strapping good time!
14:44	*	asciilifeform recalls in '16 reading slowly in hammock https://www.ada-ru.org/V-0.4w/index.html
		↖ ↖
14:44	asciilifeform	( there's a built-in pun in the title, Адское ~= 'from hell' )
14:45	asciilifeform	imho ~still~ the a++ best intro text.
14:46	asciilifeform	the barnes b00k is a veeerry distand 2nd
14:46	asciilifeform	*distant
14:50	diana_coman	feeding into the earlier discussion re noobs: of those 14 accepted entries to that competition (+6 failed entries and supposedly out of ALL the Romanian blogs), only 7 still exist online and anyway stopped writing in 2011 -2014
14:52	*	diana_coman can't quite make her mind: already/only TEN years ?
		~ 36 minutes ~
15:29	mircea_popescu	c'est la vie!
		~ 27 minutes ~
15:56	diana_coman	http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893054 -> that must be THE way to learn languages: 2 at a time, russian+ada in one go to not feel like wasting time
15:56	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 19:44 asciilifeform recalls in '16 reading slowly in hammock https://www.ada-ru.org/V-0.4w/index.html
15:58	asciilifeform	diana_coman: lol, didnt mircea_popescu once mention that he did landau & fr in 1 shot
15:58	diana_coman	I don't recall
15:58	asciilifeform	!#s landau
15:58	a111	25 results for "landau", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=landau
16:03	asciilifeform	hrm, dun seem to be in the log.
16:04	asciilifeform	pretty sure i didn't dream it tho.
16:05	diana_coman	speaking of Barnes' Ada book: it IS very useful and I certainly do go back to it quite often still for all sorts but it still has at times such ideas that I can't stand; e.g. "The reader will probably feel that the activation mechanism is somewhat elaborate. However, in practice, the details will rarely need to be considered. They are mentioned in order to show that the mechanism is well defined rather than because of their everyday import
		↖
16:05	diana_coman	ance." (p.531, Programming in Ada 2012)
16:06	asciilifeform	diana_coman: it's a pretty dubious b00k. problem is, i dun have anyffin to recommend to engl. readers other than it
16:06	asciilifeform	( and the standard docs, but go an' try to learn lang from those )
16:08	diana_coman	myeah, true; just wanted to point out this sort of rakes for potential noobs out there
16:09	asciilifeform	i'd even say that 80+% of the thing consists of rakes, by mass
16:09	asciilifeform	that whole chunk of the lang that one is simply better off ignoring
16:10	asciilifeform	i ate http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893054 cover to cover, but read maybe 4 ch of barnes.
16:10	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 19:44 asciilifeform recalls in '16 reading slowly in hammock https://www.ada-ru.org/V-0.4w/index.html
16:10	asciilifeform	and dun intend to touch the remainder .
16:11	diana_coman	to know what to ignore, that's the...skill
16:11	diana_coman	hmmm, is it really THAT good?
16:12	asciilifeform	diana_coman: it wasn't actively 'break out in hives' allergenic, is all.
16:12	diana_coman	ah
16:12	asciilifeform	d00d knew how to avoid bloating.
16:13	asciilifeform	some folx write to kill tree, others -- to actually get the material across to reader.
16:15	diana_coman	the logarithmic/exponential model? http://ossasepia.com/2018/12/24/a-week-in-tmsr-10-16-december-2018/comment-page-1/
16:15	asciilifeform	aha.
16:15	asciilifeform	it.
16:16	diana_coman	since you were asking re "noob diana_coman": while at Uni, 2nd year or so, I had this outburst at some point: wtf IF only you'd recommend a GOOD book ffs instead of all the bullshit
16:17	asciilifeform	lol i had this ~erry time i walked into a course
16:17	asciilifeform	i can't speak for europistans, but in 'new world' this is a dire problem, there largely ~aint~ any good book.
16:18	asciilifeform	e.g. brin elder would've luvved to assign e.g. kurosh as the textbook, i suspect, but could not , it dun exist afaik in eng
		↖ ↖
16:19	diana_coman	well yes, the noob part being that a. I had not realised that a good book was actually something rare - I had just put it all on the teachers' incompetence/lack of interest in recommending something useful b. it took me that long to realise fully the difference between the bullshit stuff that was abundantly provided and something useful
16:19	asciilifeform	( what little of use that ~does~ exist in eng, is 'ancient' and 'wouldn't do!11' to assign, cuz threadbare faculty would rather pad own pockets and send chumpers to buy ~their~ dead tree rubbish )
		↖
16:20	asciilifeform	i went to what at the time was supposed to be a 'decent' public uni in usa, and do you think anyone assigned knuth ?
16:20	asciilifeform	(spoiler -- nope)
16:20	diana_coman	just in case anyone wonders: it was anyway all in English, not like one had much in Romanian on the topic (and to this day, reading CS in Romanian is just not worth it)
16:21	asciilifeform	of course there was 1 at the library (at the time, naodays library mostly hollowed out), the tomes stuck together from age, just like the lenin on the 4th floor
16:21	diana_coman	oh, huh; at least they DID mention Knuth to us
16:21	diana_coman	later than my outburst :D
16:22	diana_coman	it's actually even translated to Ro, I still have the volumes on my shelf though I go and read...the English version :D
16:22	asciilifeform	i actually picked up a ru transl, which i had nfi existed until found in a skip (!) at same uni
16:22	asciilifeform	( seems like a ru maffs prof keeled over / retired, and all of his shelf was tossed )
16:23	asciilifeform	i went in with duffelbags and pocketed it all.
16:24	diana_coman	pitty you didn't find the prof before finding only his...remains as it were
16:24	asciilifeform	i found some prior to them expiring, didnt make much diff
16:24	asciilifeform	by the time i got to'em already mostly eaten by termites inside.
16:24	diana_coman	well, then still only...remains
16:25	asciilifeform	they had this d00d, who was chief of sov space ministry at the time of venera probe.
16:26	asciilifeform	he ended up hiring undergrad-asciilifeform to... sit in a (princely) locking (!) office and read mountain of treatise re ion engines.
16:26	asciilifeform	but d00d was , idk, 80+ y.o., and forgot what step 2 was...
16:26	diana_coman	sad really
16:26	asciilifeform	quite.
16:27	diana_coman	http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893092 -> honestly, I don't see it: if he luvved to then WHY not recommend it? in martian if that's what it is in, wtf
16:27	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 21:18 asciilifeform: e.g. brin elder would've luvved to assign e.g. kurosh as the textbook, i suspect, but could not , it dun exist afaik in eng
16:27	asciilifeform	cuz to ~whom~ recommend.
16:27	asciilifeform	'here, have this mega-opus in martian'
16:27	diana_coman	set the brighter students to translate it if need be, but anyways, recommend it
16:28	asciilifeform	i get away with it here, mostly, but usg.prof prolly not .
16:28	diana_coman	yes, it has to be here, top of the list if it's tops; it's not "recommend for X's and Y's capabilities" but "recommend for Z topic" , isn't it?
16:28	asciilifeform	funnily enuff, to close the circle, yrs later i actually ran into kurosh ed. in 100% king's english
16:29	asciilifeform	'mir publishing' 1990 or near.
16:29	diana_coman	it has nothing to do with what student might or might not be able to do; if you have a course on X and the main reference is Z then Z is the main recommended book regardless of anything else, what
		↖
16:29	asciilifeform	i'm guessing diana_coman never spent much time in anglotardistan
16:30	diana_coman	well, not in the US (got once to Boston for a conf. and that's all) and not in English education system at any rate, true
16:30	asciilifeform	lucky, too
16:30	asciilifeform	nuffin here is healthy or whole, it is like living on those tomatoes they grow in chernobyl exclusion zone
		↖
16:32	asciilifeform	errything is subtly poison. and not merely the air, water, food ( these -- so obv. that even the localtards understand, generally ) -- but the ~thought~
16:33	asciilifeform	iirc mircea_popescu at one pt walked around in usa for coupla ~yrs~ and then noticed and took the first plane out and never set foot again
16:34	asciilifeform	erry time asciilifeform gets a chance to walk out, going back feels rather like back to insane asylum.
16:35	asciilifeform	except that i dun think anywhere in civilized world keeps the insane in anyffin resembling the conditions.
16:36	diana_coman	hmmmm, a tiny Diana loved those well-written children stories; and then she re-read them at age 12 or so and was so shocked to see how much propaganda they were....; my point being: I doubt there is any place which is not "subtly poison" of one sort or another
16:36	asciilifeform	which were these, diana_coman
16:36	asciilifeform	( o'henry ? twain ? )
16:37	asciilifeform	diana_coman: strontium is in the milk of erry cow alive, but still wouldntcha rather drink from cow in ro than from chernobyl.
16:37	diana_coman	some Romanian author, lemme see, www.anticariat-unu.ro/vorba-buna-inteleptul-de-al-gheorghiu-pogonesti-1980-p98305
		↖
16:37	diana_coman	it's even precisely the cover I remember, lol
16:38	asciilifeform	( incidentally, 80+% of that very strontium is there on acct of ameritards having their fireworx )
16:38	asciilifeform	from 'bikini' to mid-90s
16:40	diana_coman	thing is: it's ~never about what you'd "rather" but ~always about what you'd NOT stand
16:40	asciilifeform	diana_coman: can barf at the communist kid b00kz, but seems to me that even there result is considerably closer to human and farther from bonsaikitten of disney princess etc.
16:40	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: There were a couple dirtier uncontained Nevada tests than 'bikini' The 'Ploughshares' series was especially salty
16:41	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: correct, approx at the time they started optimizing for neutron yield
16:41	diana_coman	asciilifeform, you know, I do NOT barf at all at Neznaika and at Nosov in general and yes, I read them as a child an in Romanian and loved them; and I re-read them at 12 and at 19 and at 25 and STILL loved them
16:41	asciilifeform	same.
16:42	asciilifeform	btw didja ever read 'neznaika on the moon'
16:42	asciilifeform	the 1 where they go to where capitalism.
16:42	BingoBoingo	Well, also they were doing the advanced nuclear chemisty INSIDE copious dirt to kick up.
16:42	diana_coman	so no, I'm not barfing at communist kid bookz but at propaganda fed while one's too young to even notice it
16:42	asciilifeform	hilarious item, almost 'tardstalk btc investments' in storybook form.
16:42	diana_coman	asciilifeform, no; now I must find it, lol
16:43	asciilifeform	if anybody turns this item up in eng, plox to write in
16:43	asciilifeform	in '90s ru, there was joke that went around where eltsin had sworn on a copy somehow instead of bible
16:43	asciilifeform	( and magicking as result the privatizationlulz into being )
		↖
16:45	diana_coman	ahhh, if at it, asciilifeform one thing I really try to get hold of and couldn't, perhaps you have it: some offline audiobooks read by this Samoilov Vladimir?
16:45	asciilifeform	diana_coman: 'radio zvezda' has a bunch on their www iirc.
16:46	asciilifeform	i'ma look in the warez chest an' see if got any there also.
16:46	diana_coman	I've found it online but not for download, and in piecemeal fashion rather than full thing
16:46	*	asciilifeform brb,ttime
		~ 42 minutes ~
17:28	feedbot	http://pizarroisp.net/2019/02/05/pizarro-january-2019-report/ << PizarroISP -- Pizarro January 2019 Report
		~ 30 minutes ~
17:58	feedbot	http://qntra.net/2019/02/belgian-minister-forced-off-the-job-for-pointing-out-obviously-organized-protest-was-organized/ << Qntra -- Belgian Minister Forced Off The Job For Pointing Out Obviously Organized Protest Was Organized
18:01	mircea_popescu	http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893094 << quite like the medicine. oh, sulfa NO GOOD. let's not even start on http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-12#918823 lest we end up straight with http://trilema.com/2011/ecologistii-cei-mai-ipocriti-dintre-paminteni/#selection-47.1-51.521 "why EXACTLY is philiphs paying govts to ruin 3rd world's manufacturing"
18:01	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 21:19 asciilifeform: ( what little of use that ~does~ exist in eng, is 'ancient' and 'wouldn't do!11' to assign, cuz threadbare faculty would rather pad own pockets and send chumpers to buy ~their~ dead tree rubbish )
18:01	a111	Logged on 2014-11-12 20:50 mircea_popescu: and since we're on it, methotrexate is used as an abortifacent, notwithstanding that ethacridine lactate is cheaper, can be used without needing a hospital visit and much safer.
18:02	mircea_popescu	can't locate now the discussion of danone giving out "free baby formula" to moronic (aka "aspirational") orc females just for long enough to suspend natural lactation, and etcetera.
18:02	mircea_popescu	denied middle, yes.
18:04	asciilifeform	iirc was nestle co
18:04	asciilifeform	but possible elsewhere also
18:04	asciilifeform	ameripharma is just tip of the iceberg.
18:05	mircea_popescu	http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893123 << for all the wank re "science of education", entire field is exactly at shaman stage, something as basic as http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1892871 entirely undiscovered arcana.
18:05	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 21:29 diana_coman: it has nothing to do with what student might or might not be able to do; if you have a course on X and the main reference is Z then Z is the main recommended book regardless of anything else, what
18:05	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 18:11 mircea_popescu: in short : the point here is that we control ~the process~ of education, not ~the outcomes~ of education.
18:05	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: far as i'm concerned, walking bodies who can't languages into a higher maffs classroom is == lunacy to walking in ones who never learned arithmetic
18:05	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform weirdly that doesn't yield either. i coudl've sworn we had a logthread on african "career women" and euro powdered milk.
		↖
18:06	asciilifeform	iirc was a trilema piece.
18:06	mircea_popescu	http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893127 << you have no idea. should see them butcher the classics, "proust expert", "let me read you some latin", jesus f christ.
18:06	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 21:30 asciilifeform: nuffin here is healthy or whole, it is like living on those tomatoes they grow in chernobyl exclusion zone
18:06	mircea_popescu	at least math stays mathy.
		↖
18:08	mircea_popescu	http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893136 << ha, never seen that1 b4.
18:08	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 21:37 diana_coman: some Romanian author, lemme see, www.anticariat-unu.ro/vorba-buna-inteleptul-de-al-gheorghiu-pogonesti-1980-p98305
18:09	mircea_popescu	http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893154 << if you're into these, the story of the west india trading co and the corp boom, the involvement of said newton, and of the king's finance dept is well worth a study.
18:09	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 21:43 asciilifeform: ( and magicking as result the privatizationlulz into being )
18:10	mircea_popescu	http://btcbase.org/log/2013-10-10#347200
18:10	a111	Logged on 2013-10-10 15:01 mircea_popescu: ;;google "a company for carrying out an undertaking of great advantage, but nobody to know what it is"
18:10	asciilifeform	... east india ?
18:11	mircea_popescu	nah, the dutch item.
18:11	asciilifeform	aa
18:20	BingoBoingo	<asciilifeform> iirc was nestle co << Same organization different places
		~ 28 minutes ~
18:48	feedbot	http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2993 << Loper OS -- Lost Technology: The PQ3QI-01 Sunl...able Display.
18:52	asciilifeform	http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893178 << you oughta see how they 'teach' it tho.
18:52	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 23:06 mircea_popescu: at least math stays mathy.
		~ 28 minutes ~
19:20	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2011/ecologistii-cei-mai-ipocriti-dintre-paminteni/#selection-55.432-55.777
19:23	asciilifeform	in re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-05#1893174 that is
19:23	a111	Logged on 2019-02-05 23:05 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform weirdly that doesn't yield either. i coudl've sworn we had a logthread on african "career women" and euro powdered milk.
19:23	*	asciilifeform bbl,meatsystems
		~ 1 hours 7 minutes ~
20:30	mircea_popescu	a there it was!
		~ 1 hours 48 minutes ~
22:18	BingoBoingo	In milestones, Qntra sitting at 2400 posts and 2500 comments
		~ 25 minutes ~
22:44	hanbot	gentooers: looking @ thebitcoin.foundation/gentoo-stage3-amd64-nomultilib-guide.txt, i direct myself to the distfiles @ gentoo.ussg.indiana.edu and find noffin' for i686; do we not have a gentoo frozen for it?
		~ 36 minutes ~
23:21	trinque	hanbot: hm, this got right past me. the cuntoo builder is 64bit only at the present.
		↖
23:26	trinque	I don't plan on porting the bootstrapper to other architectures; it'll be better once the bridge has been crossed to crosscompile for various other archs (arm, i686, toaster)
23:26	*	trinque actually has tooling for this sitting on his workbench, suitable for e.g. stamping out small linux firmwares w/ busybox
23:27	asciilifeform	trinque: baked from buildroot or entirely new item ?
23:27	trinque	new item, aims portage at folder and "buildroots" in it
23:28	asciilifeform	neato

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