Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2013-10-09 | 2013-10-11 → ↓
00:09 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.96001 BTC [+]
00:17 jaj_ how do I buy active mining right now?
00:17 jaj_ sorry I meant ASICminer
00:21 pankkake kakobrekla> only could afford for one whore? => yeah, terrible
00:21 pankkake renting a nice car and a few whores isn't that expensive
00:22 pankkake lyrics suck too, though title was promising
00:22 Vexual :)
00:23 pankkake his main line is "group of whorish whores"
00:24 Vexual http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CanWljri1tQ&feature=watch_response
00:24 pankkake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FULpplzOy8U
00:24 kakobrekla tell him one whore is not a group
00:24 Vexual dont watch that if youre liquidating silk road stock
00:26 Vexual antidote
00:26 Vexual http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-PTxCwUas0
00:27 pankkake I fail to understand what is going on
00:27 pankkake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdnBTJiUVDQ
00:31 Vexual thats not industrial hardcore
00:31 pankkake because 808? :)
00:31 Vexual because my lost industy tapes
00:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2800 @ 0.00085138 = 2.3839 BTC [-]
00:32 pankkake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU7ZIzEklzc
00:32 Vexual sturting into the goth club no fee coz your suit is nice
00:33 Vexual ponty beard like a crust explorwer
00:35 Vexual play some more i like that dubstep
00:35 Vexual its fresh
00:35 KRS- check out skrillex-voltage, the youtube video version that shows a white mercedes
00:35 Vexual isnt skrillex a homo?
00:35 KRS- thats the best version of that song and imo its great
00:35 pankkake he is
00:36 KRS- he prolly is but makes some damn good music
00:36 pankkake he makes homogay music
00:36 pankkake though I won't deny brostep is a guilty pleasure of mine
00:36 KRS- like i'd want to pick on him if he were around..he's odd.
00:36 Vexual case in point
00:37 KRS- other good joints of his are bangarang and kyoto
00:37 KRS- thats dubstep right?
00:37 pankkake the "call 911 now" sample is cool
00:37 KRS- yeh
00:37 Vexual how old are you krs1?
00:37 KRS- 41
00:38 Vexual let me give you a tip about the devil
00:38 KRS- too old to be up this late too..gotta get up in a few hours.
00:38 KRS- night
00:38 pankkake it's 6:38 AM here
00:38 KRS- Somalia?
00:39 pankkake I wish! I have a government :(
00:39 KRS- hahha word..
00:39 Vexual sleep well
00:39 KRS- thx..l8r
00:41 pankkake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-2sqx-Z6is
00:46 Vexual http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xftcdn5YUkk
00:47 Vexual diesel
00:54 Vexual thats how you do an 808 and a synth, keepo in bangin
00:58 Vexual i get in free becasue i can make the sun explode
00:58 Diablo-D3 [12:36:02] <KRS-> he prolly is but makes some damn good music
00:58 Diablo-D3 not really
00:58 Diablo-D3 skrillex is a pretty lackluster dubstep artist
00:59 Diablo-D3 not that I would consider dubstep actually music, mind you
00:59 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.96000101 = 4.8 BTC [-]
00:59 Diablo-D3 but he came in long after dubstep became a thing and then did virtually all of his music by the forumula
01:01 Vexual play something good
01:02 Vexual diablo
01:03 Diablo-D3 what
01:03 Vexual play a good one
01:03 pankkake Vexual makes sense like 10% of the time
01:03 Diablo-D3 pankkake: thats a high estimate
01:03 Vexual im a drunk
01:04 Diablo-D3 being drunk isnt paleo
01:04 Vexual dont get me started on that shit again
01:04 Vexual it is where im from ok
01:05 pankkake being a paleonazi isn't paleo
01:05 pankkake also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=138AnFonZMg
01:05 Vexual thats not vene a notawrod word
01:05 Vexual la roux, redhead madness
01:06 Vexual genetic anomalies
01:06 Vexual is this dubstep? i like it
01:06 pankkake real dubstep
01:07 Vexual fuck yeah cunt
01:07 Vexual love it
01:08 Vexual bangs like a diesel
01:09 Vexual youre coming to my goth club pannake
01:09 pankkake it's arguably closer to dnb, like most *step I enjoy
01:09 pankkake are there goth sluts?
01:10 Vexual yes
01:10 pankkake I'm coming then!
01:10 Vexual so much yes
01:10 kakobrekla a group or .. ?
01:10 pankkake hahaha
01:10 pankkake but really, goth sluts are best sluts
01:10 Vexual no the owner is a right old badman
01:10 pankkake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdwZJrWfBVU
01:10 Vexual i wont say hisdayjob
01:10 Vexual wait this song isnt over
01:11 Vexual im not sure he even exists in the day
01:11 pankkake vampire probably
01:12 Vexual i guarantee mp dont pay
01:23 Vexual you can play d&b
01:32 Vexual are you fat pancake?
01:32 pankkake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyBiAq9nPhs
01:33 pankkake no, I have the ideal BMI I guess
01:33 Vexual good mix, i was justy playing aphrodite
01:38 Vexual cop this
01:38 Vexual http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajeL87l3prM
01:40 Vexual http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKpB_w8t0U0
01:45 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5750 @ 0.00085336 = 4.9068 BTC [+] {3}
01:47 zacm goth sluts are the fattest sluts is more like it, sick
01:49 Vexual nice one dallas
01:49 Vexual you're doing it wrong
01:49 Vexual http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j-Tji1DueU
01:49 pankkake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5w7ZuRgk-g
01:50 Vexual more better
01:58 Vexual http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCPVLjrHDTs
01:59 pankkake nice
02:03 Vexual http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTxythHY09k
02:04 Vexual #gothchicks
02:04 pankkake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMyeJHcmzqM
02:04 pankkake The uploader has not made this video available in your country.
02:04 pankkake also, mainstream
02:06 Vexual where the fuck do you live?
02:07 pankkake France
02:07 Vexual well imn on a france prxoy, so youll have tyo use your ast powers of dedution
02:09 Vexual you could call yourself crepe
02:11 pankkake crèpes are much better than pancakes
02:11 Vexual well, theyre thinner, thats a surity
02:13 Vexual as for better i cant say, my sweet tooth is non existant. i eat meat
02:14 Vexual give me a fish or a duck
02:14 pankkake ducks are the best
02:14 Vexual they totally are
02:14 Vexual asnjd france cooks the best duck
02:14 pankkake yep
02:14 pankkake southern-west france
02:14 Vexual i had one with a cherry sauce, so good it was naughty
02:15 Vexual yes yes
02:15 Vexual cahors or somewhere
02:15 Vexual excpept more villagey
02:17 Vexual and theres no waitress becuase all the girls are off having fun
02:19 Vexual just the fat fuckin chef thats eaten more duck than ive drunk beers
02:20 Vexual state of the art; is the phrase that comes to mind
02:24 Vexual peking aint got nothing on southern france
02:30 Vexual http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0SyUgw98tE
02:34 Vexual and thjis again
02:34 Vexual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=138AnFonZMg
02:34 Vexual thjanks pankake
02:34 pankkake :)
02:35 mod6 ;;bc,stats
02:35 gribble Current Blocks: 262694 | Current Difficulty: 1.8928124928103292E8 | Next Difficulty At Block: 264095 | Next Difficulty In: 1401 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 7 hours, 59 minutes, and 59 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 221130389.971 | Estimated Percent Change: 16.82636
02:36 Vexual :)
02:39 Vexual http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onxOOWuAtk8
02:39 Vexual i made 0 bitcoin today, but i drank so much vodka
02:41 Vexual evens out in th wash
02:45 Vexual http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LHmXMvfikuk
02:54 Vexual http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHcyJPTTn9w
02:54 Vexual hwos got the keys to the jeep
03:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00084843 = 3.5634 BTC [-]
03:08 Vexual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kVJR4BaQNQ
03:13 Vexual san fran
03:13 Vexual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q4foLKDlcE
03:26 b0n1 man its crazy how down just dice is atm...
03:27 b0n1 pankkake, I just saw your forum post, you are still in?
03:27 pankkake about?
03:28 b0n1 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=242962.msg3300520#msg3300520
03:28 pankkake yes, I have no reason to divest
03:28 pankkake !jd
03:28 assbot Just-Dice stat: 1458 BTC profit, 52.4k BTC invested, 165.91 mio bets, 4.03 mio BTC wagered
03:29 Vexual my bot takes money most days
03:30 b0n1 what is your bot doing Vexual ? When does it divest and when reinvest?
03:31 Namworld I left. -27 BTC
03:31 Namworld Had other stuff to do with those funds
03:32 b0n1 Well, thats so strange... what is the reason for that seemingly continuous down... :( The random generator is biased?
03:32 Namworld No idea
03:33 b0n1 It seems that the majority of investors made loss instead of profit
03:35 Namworld yes
03:43 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 17 @ 0.96617647 = 16.425 BTC [+] {2}
03:47 Vexual no invest just martingale with 50 hundred million tip bet
03:48 Vexual 1 satoshi versus 300 btc is not a casino
03:49 Vexual 30 rolls in a row neve hapopens
03:54 dub ;;goxlag
03:54 gribble MtGox lag is 1121.656154 seconds. During this time, light travels 2.24778637393 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin from the Sun to Ceres (in the main asteroid belt) (2.77 AU).
03:55 dub goxxed
03:56 pankkake ;;premium mtgox bitstamp
03:57 gribble mtgox premium over bitstamp is currently 12.0922752586 %.
~ 30 minutes ~
04:27 Namworld 30 rolls in a row will happen
04:27 Namworld ~ 1 in a billion odds
04:29 Namworld If you started with 10 BTC martingaling with 1 satoshi initial bet, good chance to lose 30 in a row and lose 10 BTC before doubling that 10 BTC.
04:30 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 0.1005 BTC [-]
04:31 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 2 @ 0.1002 = 0.2004 BTC [-]
~ 16 minutes ~
04:47 Vexual yes that why i dont do it too oft
04:49 Vexual youll also only ear 1 centibit per day average on a 1 satoshi start
04:50 Vexual bit a 3 second roll you can do a lot of days b4 maybe losing
04:51 Vexual nakowra was insane, you cant tak e that much every day
~ 24 minutes ~
05:16 b0n1 Vexual, check the expected value of your strategy and you will recognize its negative...
05:25 Vexual i know
05:26 Vexual theta why im only up 0.05
05:26 Vexual but the same goes for investors
05:30 Vexual while the minimum bet is so far from th maxmum bet so unlike all traditional casinos that are a business, i don't see any success for jsust diice in any kind of time fram relevant to bitcoin
05:30 Vexual people gonnna see the money worth twice as muc and they gonna divest before a profit
05:31 Vexual maybe you canleavr it for years but the risk is too high
05:32 Vexual its not a thing just gambling
05:33 Vexual theres a reason all them casino put all them bet minimum so close to the maxi
05:33 Vexual coz you have to get a money evry day to eat
05:34 Vexual they dont look on a year or a week
05:37 b0n1 good point, but a clever investor invests in a way to exploit the law of large numbers and will keep the investment long enough
05:38 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 154 @ 0.00217001 = 0.3342 BTC [-]
05:38 Vexual yeah if it lasts 5 years you win, but the model of a real casino wins more often
05:39 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 564 @ 0.00215582 = 1.2159 BTC [-] {3}
05:39 Vexual satoshidice was protected by the blockchain
05:40 Vexual no casino with any lifespan accepts one chip bets with 20 billlion on the table
05:41 b0n1 Vexual, why 5 years? There are so much bets going on atm, i dont think the frame will be that huge
05:41 Vexual cool, i like maths too
05:42 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.954 BTC [-]
05:42 Vexual nakowra dint even do that, he did a thing that couyld be done in vegas
05:42 b0n1 Vexual, you are right, traditional casinos make much more money with their limited max and maximized min bets
05:44 b0n1 what did nakowra do and why isn't he doing it further?
05:44 Vexual he did something called oceans 88
05:44 Vexual a high rolling chinese comes to a casino, plays, and wins
05:46 Vexual with no recourse of whisky and whores, the casino kicked him out and took a loss
05:47 b0n1 without knowing the strategy, why isn't he still doing it?
05:49 Vexual coz they taught him hed won
05:49 Vexual statoshi dice would have kept rollling on the chain
05:50 b0n1 what did they do?
05:50 Vexual satoshidice?
05:51 b0n1 no, just-dice i mean
05:51 Vexual they ate a dick basically
05:51 b0n1 but why don't they do it again
05:51 Vexual i dont think they liked the taste
05:52 b0n1 lal... so they found a way to forbid the strat?
05:52 Vexual he was lukcy
05:52 Vexual and he kept pumping like a pimp
05:53 b0n1 so he actually should have lost?
05:53 Vexual no he won
05:54 b0n1 you said he was lucky so i suppose that he should have lost, but won instead
05:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 950 @ 0.00084843 = 0.806 BTC [-]
05:54 b0n1 well... i think im gonna read that up
05:54 Vexual well the casino is still up
05:57 Vexual http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iwC2QljLn4
~ 18 minutes ~
06:15 assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.43 = 1.72 BTC [+]
06:25 pankkake http://trilema.com/2013/snsa-first-product-the-cardano/#comment-95493 +1 especially the revocation certificate, which I forgot existed (though I have mine somewhere…)
06:39 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 86 @ 0.00217233 = 0.1868 BTC [+] {2}
~ 1 hours 16 minutes ~
07:55 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 8 @ 0.1001375 = 0.8011 BTC [-] {2}
08:00 assbot [HAVELOCK] [XBOND] [PAID] 0.69348300 BTC to 1`386`966 shares, 50 satoshi per share
08:01 mircea_popescu http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/09/the-many-flaws-of-dualecdrbg.html
08:01 mircea_popescu shit one learns from one's blog.
08:02 davout yo
08:03 mircea_popescu ello.
08:03 davout so i was reading your reply
08:03 davout i concur when you say the fact the private key is never exported is a feature
08:03 mircea_popescu "and i hate you now"
08:03 mircea_popescu a ok
08:04 davout nah, i never hate :-)
08:04 davout but regarding the revocation cert it's still useful to have
08:04 davout push it to keyservers, everybody gets notified
08:04 mircea_popescu maybe. the one constraint in there, you have to appreciate, is that since we're not doing asics for this,
08:05 mircea_popescu there's just so much space available for code
08:05 mircea_popescu so iot's a game of well what can we fit of what we need to have
08:05 davout ofc
08:05 mircea_popescu if we ever end up selling these by the 10's of ks then an asic run becomes more reasonable and it probably will present a muchly different picture
08:05 davout i'm just saying you're forgetting the main point of the revocation cert (in this specific context) in your answer
08:06 mircea_popescu well, see, the cardano is principally to be used with people you are in contact with.
08:07 mircea_popescu it's ideal usecase is not this, post pubkey on your blog, 20 years later still get encrypted email to that key (you've long lost)
08:08 davout hmm
08:08 mircea_popescu lermme quote here
08:12 mircea_popescu well i can't find it. somewhere phil zimmermann was saying that people still send him pgp encrypted email but he long since doesn't have the key so he usually responds to ask ppl to send it plainly
08:13 mircea_popescu which he figures they might think it's a little strange.
08:13 mircea_popescu anyway. that sort of thing isn't the usecase here, not really. a classic pc implementation works much better.
08:17 davout yeah so it isn't really supposed to be "The safe vault for your precious keys"(TM)
08:17 davout i see
08:17 mircea_popescu nah, it's supposed to be the unbreakable instagpg item.
08:17 mircea_popescu the mothership probably needs a different solution. this is what the xwingers use while in flight
08:25 davout i'm off, gonna build my mini GPG keychain with a raspberry pi and a betamax casing
08:29 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00085224 = 2.7272 BTC [+]
08:36 bitesak Matthew Green seems a good candidate to review the entropy of Cardano?
08:39 mircea_popescu bitesak sure, if he wants to
08:40 mircea_popescu davout lol
08:44 Rulother_ well that script didn't work
08:58 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 1 = 3 BTC [+]
08:59 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1550 @ 0.00085105 = 1.3191 BTC [-]
09:13 mircea_popescu lol
09:18 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 140 @ 0.00998569 = 1.398 BTC [+] {5}
09:19 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 37 @ 0.00998799 = 0.3696 BTC [+]
09:20 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 1.05624924 = 4.225 BTC [+] {3}
09:21 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.06499999 BTC [+]
~ 15 minutes ~
09:36 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.00900001 = 0.18 BTC [-] {2}
09:37 davout clear
09:37 davout whoops
09:43 davout http://usgovdownforeveryoneorjustme.com/
09:43 mircea_popescu lol
09:44 Rulother nice
09:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3219 @ 0.00085602 = 2.7555 BTC [+] {3}
09:48 jurov hi davout, how long should the b-c verfication take?
09:49 jurov i'm waiting almost a week
09:51 davout our financial partner is really slow
09:51 mircea_popescu who you working with ? i forget
09:52 davout they're called lemon way
09:52 davout i'm not sure they know about the lemon party
09:53 mircea_popescu youi mean the start-up ?!
09:54 mircea_popescu the "your phone # is your acct #" folks ?
09:54 davout lol yeah
09:54 mircea_popescu yes you do
09:54 mircea_popescu jeez. well this won't last long.
09:55 davout why is that ?
09:55 mircea_popescu cause clueless imo.
09:56 davout let's say that they understand fast, but you gotta speak slowly
09:56 mircea_popescu heh. anyone ELSE work there outside of that burlet fellow ?
09:57 davout yup, witnessed it first hand
09:57 davout you know him?
09:57 mircea_popescu not personally
09:58 davout well, don't go out of your way
09:58 mircea_popescu lol. im sorry, but i have to rely on reams of intel. i can't personalyl know everyone.
09:58 mircea_popescu anyway. mebbe it works out for you, but i'd keep on toes.
10:02 ThickAsThieves http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanmac/2013/10/09/living-with-ross-ulbricht-housemates-say-they-saw-no-clues-of-silk-road-or-the-dread-pirate-roberts/
10:03 Diablo-D3 of course they'd say that
10:03 Diablo-D3 its a combination of a) opsec, and b) THEIR opsec
10:04 mircea_popescu "kept to himself and spent full days buried in his laptop."
10:04 mircea_popescu dude... kids today. long time on a laptop is fucking egonomics suicide.
10:04 mircea_popescu why. why do they do it.
10:05 jurov is there anything else to do?
10:05 mircea_popescu use a desktop!
10:05 jurov touche
10:06 ThickAsThieves egonomics, invented by mpex
10:06 mircea_popescu i suspect it's quite possible none of the recent kids ever got to use desktops and simply don't know the glory of comfort.
10:06 mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves lol
10:07 ThickAsThieves might be a good name for the blog
10:07 mircea_popescu i meant ergonomics! i swear!
10:08 ThickAsThieves popescuian slip
10:08 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5543 @ 0.00085746 = 4.7529 BTC [+]
10:08 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 41 @ 0.009001 = 0.369 BTC [+] {2}
10:09 mircea_popescu i suppose i'll have to write the book now.
10:09 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 21 @ 0.00900001 = 0.189 BTC [-]
10:09 ThickAsThieves lol: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=308861.msg1521109;topicseen#new
10:09 ThickAsThieves "You are already rich god damn it."
10:10 ThickAsThieves what the world needs now, BTCT code open-sourced...
10:10 jurov burnside's not sure if he can reliably wipe all passwords
10:11 ThickAsThieves ?
10:11 jurov remember bitcoinica?
10:11 ThickAsThieves before my time
10:11 pankkake "i suspect it's quite possible none of the recent kids ever got to use desktops and simply don't know the glory of comfort." yup
10:11 pankkake they do learn, though. in pain
10:11 jurov ftfy: in vain
10:12 ThickAsThieves maybe that;s why they are such jerks
10:12 ThickAsThieves all this decntralized exchange talk is driving me batty
10:13 ThickAsThieves i started actually responding and making points, but it doesn't help of course
10:13 ThickAsThieves "Direct shares is the only way forward, at this point. The fact that you have not put together a direct share system shows the short-sightedness of management."
10:13 jurov ThickAsThieves: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93074
10:13 pankkake the other response could be "shut up and code"
10:13 pankkake instead of circlejerking on how colored coins are the future
10:13 ThickAsThieves or, Fuck you.
10:14 ThickAsThieves lastpass, lol
10:15 pankkake "I'm posting my idea here since it hasn't gotten much attention in the Project Development forum (0 replies)"
10:15 ThickAsThieves mp, please write a Here's Why Everyone That Wants Decentralized Exchanges is Moron post
10:16 ThickAsThieves assuming you havent already
10:17 jurov there was kinda such discussion with asciilifeform's proposal on this topic
10:17 davout clear
10:18 jurov davout ?
10:19 ThickAsThieves prepping the defibrillator?
10:19 jcpham flatline
10:20 mircea_popescu skinnkavaj hasa a very interesting take on the world :D
10:21 skinnkavaj mircea_popescu: What?
10:21 mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves the relevant bit there is, after the third time bitcoinica was raped, the "bitcoin consultancy" group of dorks self proclaimed into importance & relevance decided to shut it down.
10:21 mircea_popescu after which one of them, the fabled amir taaki, stole the code and published it
10:21 LorenzoMoney yes, a decentralized stock exchange would be wonderful, wouldn't it
10:22 mircea_popescu in what his foggy brain represented as "open sourcing",
10:22 mircea_popescu supposedly if you torrent some movie you're also open sourcing it, cause you don't need a license in the first place to cede rights.
10:22 skinnkavaj mircea_popescu: Did you respond to my comment i just made in neobee thread?
10:22 LorenzoMoney and why are they morons? oh becauseyou area fascist
10:22 LorenzoMoney yes, bet you love Heinlein also
10:22 mircea_popescu anyway. the code contained a lot of good bits including enough info to reconstruct a pw.
10:22 mircea_popescu which resulted in some [more] lost btc.
10:22 mircea_popescu skinnkavaj no it was about the btctc "you're already rich" thing
10:23 skinnkavaj mircea_popescu: Isn't it true?
10:23 skinnkavaj Does burnside need the money?
10:23 mircea_popescu no, it's not true.
10:23 mircea_popescu burnside is poor now, for one. his btct never made anything for the mention, for the other.
10:24 skinnkavaj mircea_popescu: Didn't both litecoinglobal and btct have very huge fees?
10:24 mircea_popescu moreover, poor idiots should not have access to code that SEEMS like it's doing something of that nature.
10:24 mircea_popescu because they'll just fuck their lives up.
10:24 skinnkavaj Ofc burnside is rich.
10:24 mircea_popescu skinnkavaj they had very huge fees. he is not rich. go figure.
10:24 mod6 ThickAsThieves: http://trilema.com/2013/why-i-nixed-p2p-colored-coins-and-all-that-jazz/
10:24 jurov and this is not abut burnside. now there's at least some technical barrier to keep your average noob/scammer to start his own exchange
10:24 mircea_popescu ^
10:25 skinnkavaj jurov: Yeah like a free market hurts
10:25 skinnkavaj LOL
10:25 mircea_popescu to start his own WEBSITE which he misrepresents as an exchange.
10:25 skinnkavaj and you are into bitcoin
10:25 skinnkavaj because its sold to a company?
10:25 mircea_popescu a collectiojn of idiots being confused about what they do != a free market.
10:25 skinnkavaj So your argument is like, with open source everything that comes out is just crap?
10:26 pankkake "LorenzoMoney> yes, bet you love Heinlein also" wat
10:26 skinnkavaj And you are using bitcoin
10:26 mircea_popescu no.
10:26 skinnkavaj Lmao
10:26 skinnkavaj Maybe we should sell bitcoin to a company
10:26 mircea_popescu my argument is that you are ill equipped to consider things, as displayed by the very dubious generalisation you just tripped yourself with.
10:26 skinnkavaj Genius
10:28 jurov skinnkavaj: i have seen myself some offers on freelancer "build me a bitcoin exchange", they were obviously clueless on first read
10:28 jurov it's just better for everyone if they don't
10:29 ThickAsThieves mp your colored coins article doesnt address many other problems
10:29 skinnkavaj So what? With a free markey, people will choose where to go. Which one sets up the best BTCT clone will win in the end.
10:29 mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves so point them out.
10:30 mircea_popescu anyway, "<jurov> burnside's not sure if he can reliably wipe all passwords" << no, just not sure how to cleanly remove the "give scammers fake btc to fake their volume" code.
10:30 ThickAsThieves the argument of course shifts depending on what problem it is people are trying to solve with decentralization
10:30 jurov skinnkavaj: nope. the one who will manage to keep the bitcoins safe will win
10:31 mircea_popescu of course.
10:31 skinnkavaj jurov: Exactly what i said but in other words
10:31 ThickAsThieves your points are mostly technical, involving the blockchain as being impractical
10:31 ThickAsThieves i'd argue the concept itself is a unicorn
10:31 mircea_popescu skinnkavaj no, not exacvtly what you said at all.
10:31 mircea_popescu forum retards move to what SEEMS TO THEM a better alternative.
10:31 mircea_popescu then they lose their btc.
10:31 mircea_popescu which is ok because new retards come in.
10:31 ThickAsThieves powers will always become ordered, dismantled, ordered, etc
10:31 mircea_popescu if this process is allowed to become "what Bitcoin is" then Bitcoin will never be anything.
10:32 skinnkavaj No, people use the service because its good. Thats the free market. Do you realize why everyone is abonding mtgox?
10:32 mircea_popescu and a bunch of rich powerful people are here to fuck you in the mouth until you bleed
10:32 mircea_popescu rather than let that happen.
10:32 mircea_popescu i dunno how it can be made clearer. "free market" indeed.
10:32 ThickAsThieves i see another conversation is happening sorry
10:32 mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves no, im done with the "free market of retards" concept. anyway, re the colored coins :
10:33 mircea_popescu the blockchain is fundamentally a solution to the bizantine problem
10:33 mircea_popescu that problem exists like gravity exists. if you have it you gotta solve it. which is why the article focuses on the blockchain : if you're doing distributed anything, you have the bizantine poblem.
10:34 ThickAsThieves admittedly, it doesnt seem to be the colored coin style developers making wild claims, but the people flocking to these ideas
10:34 ThickAsThieves what i mean is
10:34 ThickAsThieves people see exchanges closing
10:34 ThickAsThieves and that decentralized things are now a solution
10:35 ThickAsThieves colored coin type developers are merely trying to make an accountable ledger
10:35 ThickAsThieves these are not the same things
10:35 mircea_popescu explain the difference ?
10:36 ThickAsThieves well the devs are just trying to make a thing
10:36 mircea_popescu i mean other than "Well different implementations of the same concept"
10:36 ThickAsThieves while the cheerleaders are searching for a replacement for exchanges
10:36 pankkake colored coins do not provide a solution for decentralized *trades*
10:36 mircea_popescu so you envisage a distributed replacement that's NOT at the same time an accountable ledger ?
10:36 ThickAsThieves no
10:36 ThickAsThieves i despise the whole idea
10:36 mircea_popescu not what i meant
10:37 mircea_popescu i meant as a pure concept. could such a thing be conceived
10:37 ThickAsThieves i simply believe any such pursuit is a waste of time
10:37 mircea_popescu pankkake that's you know, like "cancer will get you" for the gunshot wound patient
10:38 ThickAsThieves i see the securities market as an ideal system involving 4 major parties
10:38 mircea_popescu anyway. something like ripple (and tf's abuse thereof) clearly showed what the problems are with trying to get a distributed trust model going.
10:38 ThickAsThieves the Exhange/Platform, Investment Bank/Issuer, Investor, and the issued Business/Financial Instrument
10:38 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 81 @ 0.00997734 = 0.8082 BTC [+] {3}
10:39 ThickAsThieves having all 4 allows the alignment of interests
10:39 ThickAsThieves and balance of power/trust
10:39 mircea_popescu this is at least the proven=to=work italian model the modern system is copying.
10:39 mircea_popescu and now i shall be off scarfing smoked salmon and fresh apple pie seasoned with free market tears. bbs.
10:39 ThickAsThieves these powers are made useful/profitable/covenient in their vert centralization
10:39 ThickAsThieves very*
10:40 ThickAsThieves to attempt to "decentralize" merely amounts to breaking things into less useful pieces
10:40 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 19 @ 0.00997981 = 0.1896 BTC [+]
10:41 ThickAsThieves thus all my problems with the decentralization of securities movement are conceptual
10:41 pankkake I hereby decentralize ThickAsThieves
10:41 pankkake you are now thick, and a thief
10:41 ThickAsThieves lol
10:41 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00997981 = 0.499 BTC [+] {2}
10:42 ThickAsThieves if you pile on mp's technical arguments about the blockchain's limits in providing a decentralized solution it only makes decentralization that much worse of a pursuit
10:44 ThickAsThieves circling back to, i'd love to see blog article from mp that supported what ive just described
10:44 ThickAsThieves although i guess no one would care much
10:44 ThickAsThieves certainly not the forums
10:45 ThickAsThieves "Such terms is rather ridicules and im sure they wont hold up in court in many country's"
10:45 pankkake I'm not well versed in trade engines, but I don't see how you could execute them in a decentralized way
10:45 pankkake even with only trusted nodes
10:45 pankkake execute trades*
10:46 ThickAsThieves i'm not inclined to find out :)
10:47 ThickAsThieves another area people think decentralization addresses is circumventing SEC and other regulation
10:47 ThickAsThieves this might be possible for nondescript financial instruments
10:47 ThickAsThieves but not actual shares in companies
10:47 pankkake unless the company is a scam, then it can work :)
10:48 ThickAsThieves true
10:59 jurov i dont undersstand, how it can work? i mean, how it protects said comapny from SEC?
10:59 ThickAsThieves it doesnt
10:59 ThickAsThieves thats the point
11:00 mircea_popescu pankkake it's a hell of a problem.
11:00 jurov so to what you said "true" then? i'm confused
11:00 ThickAsThieves scammers would be safe
11:00 ThickAsThieves since they would never say who they really are
11:00 ThickAsThieves thus a decntralized service would make their lives easier
11:01 mircea_popescu ;;google "a company for carrying out an undertaking of great advantage, but nobody to know what it is"
↖
11:01 gribble South Sea Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sea_Company>; Mackay, Charles, Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and ...: <http://www.econlib.org/library/Mackay/macEx2.html>; The Extraordinary Popular Delusion of Believing What You Read ...: <http://blogs.wsj.com/totalreturn/2011/11/11/the-extraordinary-popular-delusion-of- (1 more message)
11:02 ThickAsThieves it's not a normal word?
11:04 jurov no its not, especially if used like: unless the company is a scam, then it can work
11:04 jurov i understood it the opposite way
11:04 jurov like "if the company is a scam, then it can work"
11:05 ThickAsThieves thats correct intepretation
11:05 ThickAsThieves r
11:05 jurov er... i mean.. fuck it
11:05 ThickAsThieves hehe
11:06 jurov maybe it's just perl-induced braindamage
11:08 ThickAsThieves "I think decentralized is the only way to go as this will happen to any other centralized exchange. Looking into the Namecoin code to create a decentralized exchanged. As was said above it can be merged mined with Bitcoin. We could uses our own miners to get it going." Ken Slaughter
11:12 mircea_popescu rather than getting some pmbs that don't melt.
11:12 mircea_popescu because everyone gains when nobody does his job well because he's too busy trying to do poorly the jobs of others.
11:12 mircea_popescu fucking garzik syndrome.
~ 19 minutes ~
11:32 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2013/and-now-i-shall-be-off-scarfing-smoked-salmon-and-fresh-apple-pie-seasoned-with-free-market-tears-or-why-a-collection-of-confused-retards-does-not-amount-to-a-free-market/
~ 30 minutes ~
12:03 samson_ If shares were issued on their own blockchain and could be freely moved between the various available trading sites / 'share wallets' there would be no real difference in trading a share to trading an altcoin. Something like this would provide no decentralised exchange but it provides a way to hold and move shares independently of any trading platform. Just like Bitcoin.
12:05 jborkl Who would approve- dissaprove securities - The only person I have seen competent in theis matter already has an exchange
12:07 jborkl and do not sat the commnity, because a group of retards approving something is still a group of retards making a decision
12:11 samson_ If anyone can create a security then I don't see the big deal. The approval process would happen automatically if people started trading them for Bitcoin. Take these new alt currencies which appear to be created daily - they're not all traded on exchanges hence they're not 'approved'. They still exist but that is irrelevant.
12:12 samson_ I guess my take on it is the shares could do with decentralisation, not so much the exchanges.
~ 16 minutes ~
12:28 ThickAsThieves you'd prefer the stock market to more resemble the altcoin markert?
12:28 ThickAsThieves wasnt it close enough already with labcoins and activeminingcoins
12:29 Jere_Jones lol
12:29 Jere_Jones Were those really things?
12:29 ThickAsThieves they behaved much the same...
12:29 ThickAsThieves lots of people focusing attention on them like a bitcoingem
12:30 ThickAsThieves then bagholders left to be determined
12:30 Jere_Jones I admit that I, at one time or another, owned shares of both.
12:30 ThickAsThieves hordes of ingoramuses asking what is a labcoin and how do i get them?
12:30 ThickAsThieves anxious to hold their thread of the bag
12:31 ThickAsThieves then poof the network disowns it
12:31 ThickAsThieves threads unravel
12:31 ThickAsThieves the bag is empty
12:31 ThickAsThieves at least no one had to waste any GPU power
12:31 samson_ It would be nice if we could withdraw shares from an exchange just like a coin.
12:32 ThickAsThieves why
12:32 samson_ It would end reliance on 'the exchange' so when it closes down they could be traded elsewhere.
12:32 ThickAsThieves you rely on the issuer
12:32 ThickAsThieves not the exchange
12:32 ThickAsThieves the exchange is a platform
12:33 ThickAsThieves just because you can "withdraw" your share, doesnt mean it will have usefulness in the same ways
12:33 ThickAsThieves realize that in such a system you'd end up with more friction
12:33 ThickAsThieves in time, in cost, etc
12:34 ThickAsThieves me for example, you think i would manage a ledger system for free?
12:34 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 64 @ 0.00935 = 0.5984 BTC [-]
12:35 ThickAsThieves even a decentralized system needs a point of issuance
12:35 samson_ This is true, I'm not saying it's simple
12:36 ThickAsThieves but you are saying you want it
12:36 ThickAsThieves i'm saying you shouldnt
12:36 ThickAsThieves professional service providers are useful
12:36 ThickAsThieves anarchy is not
12:37 samson_ I think it would be an evolution on current uses of blockchains without going down the whole coloured coins route
12:38 ThickAsThieves there are still plenty other issues to address
12:38 ThickAsThieves time is better spent pursuing running legitimate services
12:38 ThickAsThieves imo at least
12:45 mircea_popescu basically the very primitive understanding of freedom has serious trouble coming to terms with the ancient procedure of labour division
12:46 mircea_popescu on the basis of this we could say "the community" is sometime between 12k and 7k BC
12:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 750 @ 0.00085423 = 0.6407 BTC [-]
~ 27 minutes ~
13:16 jborkl With respect to the capacitors, an investigation has been undertaken with Anotherhost.se, as they have suffered the issue with all their boards.
13:16 jborkl KNC says all the caps blowing is due to the corsair ps
13:16 mircea_popescu all ?!
13:17 mircea_popescu wait a second. ALL ?!
13:17 jborkl that is what it says
13:17 jborkl It appears that a reasonable solution has been reached in that all the boards this has occurred to seem to have been used alongside the exact same PSU; The Corsair HX850.+
13:18 mircea_popescu dude it's not the power get out.
13:18 jborkl Basically there is an issue with excessive current being applied, after the PU cuts out and the device is turned back on, causing the cap to pop.
13:18 mircea_popescu if all the boards burn its not the capacitors, it's not the power, it's the board.
13:18 jborkl I know, that is a bad diagnosis- it is just wrong
13:19 kakobrekla hum
13:19 kakobrekla but caps exploded / went on fire
13:19 jborkl A better guess- they are drawing too much off the ps- it cuts off to protect itself and the caps pop
13:19 kakobrekla not just poped
13:19 kakobrekla one can overload cap for a short while
13:20 kakobrekla that seems to me like something that happens while under load for some time
13:20 jborkl it has been reported minutes after plugin
13:20 mircea_popescu kakobrekla the current theory i'm crediting is that the boards have bad metal masks in a spot, and it slowly melts the insulation
13:20 mircea_popescu after which it shorts.
13:20 kakobrekla well minutes in an eternity for electricity
13:21 jborkl that is a good theory mp
13:21 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 164 @ 0.00259998 = 0.4264 BTC [-]
13:21 jborkl it makes sense- the KNC theory is just flat out wrong
13:22 mircea_popescu jborkl originally it looked like caps just popped but the history since then does nto bear it out
13:22 jborkl The heavy scorch marks some of the boards are showing indicates more than a cap also
13:23 mircea_popescu and moreover it seems the majority of people i showed the pics to say those aren't electrolytic but ceramic
13:23 mircea_popescu which don
13:23 mircea_popescu t pop that way
13:23 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.04987999 BTC [-]
13:24 asciilifeform alternative: solder bridge (short) under the smt ceramic cap.
13:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform nah because burned boards w/o such bridge were seen
13:24 jborkl EDIT: I should add that KnC are using Corsair V850s themselves, and haven't had an issue with any of them. That said apparently they almost supplied their entire hosting with the HX, but due to the HX being out of stock for the volume required, they bought the V850. Which in hindsight is a wonderful thing.
13:24 jborkl I just saw that
13:25 asciilifeform bridge (accidental short, glob of solder where it doesn't belong) would vaporize in this case
13:26 jborkl so, the entire hosting is being blamed on Corsair
13:26 mircea_popescu asciilifeform vaporize is perhaps an overtstatement.
13:29 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 217 @ 0.0026 = 0.5642 BTC [+]
13:33 jborkl capacitors can't be damaged by having current applied "before they've discharged their load"
13:33 jborkl heh, but I can
13:34 mircea_popescu lol the erotic capacitor theory.
13:41 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 15 @ 0.00935334 = 0.1403 BTC [-] {2}
13:43 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.022 BTC [-]
13:52 kakobrekla http://www.memecreator.org/static/images/memes/1833214.jpg
~ 26 minutes ~
14:19 kleeck Beautiful.
14:24 mircea_popescu kakobrekla http://bitbet.us/bet/548/ross-william-ulbricht-will-be-convicted-of-three/#c1587
14:25 kakobrekla dunno if serial but mkay
14:26 mircea_popescu super cereal!
14:28 kakobrekla i need to find a way to avoid this happening for b4x, cause i know it is
14:28 kakobrekla im more skeptical for bb sine theres all these odds in the air that you wont get your money back
14:28 mircea_popescu why's it a bad thing anyway ?
14:28 kakobrekla why is it a good thing?
14:29 kakobrekla more liability for nothing
14:31 mircea_popescu hm
14:31 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.9601 = 1.9202 BTC [-]
14:32 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.96 BTC [-]
14:33 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 66 @ 0.00899757 = 0.5938 BTC [-] {4}
14:41 Namworld Hmm, did something change with MPEx? pyMPEx doesn't work it seems.
14:41 mircea_popescu Namworld more specifically ?
14:42 kakobrekla did ya load the new key?
14:42 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.96 BTC [-]
14:44 Namworld ugh, new key eh...
14:44 Namworld I use the .exe port of pympex
14:45 Namworld I have to use an hex editor to change key I believe
14:45 mircea_popescu ouch.
14:45 mircea_popescu who compiled it ?
14:46 Namworld No idea, can't remember who it was who made the port.
14:46 Namworld But an hex editor usually works fine for changing the url or key to use
14:47 mircea_popescu http://mostodd.wordpress.com/2011/03/10/pando/
14:47 ozbot 50. Pando the Trembling Giant | Most Odd - Facts of Interest
14:47 mircea_popescu alright, that may work then
14:48 Namworld What server is the key on?
14:48 mircea_popescu Namworld http://trilema.com/2013/mpex-status-report/ read that thing
14:50 Namworld That works too, thank you
14:54 jurov http://tofspot.blogspot.sk/2013/10/9-great-ptolemaic-smackdown-from.html i just lost there myself for cople hours
14:54 ozbot The TOF Spot: 9. The Great Ptolemaic Smackdown: From Plausible to Proven
14:54 jurov oh this is the begining: http://tofspot.blogspot.sk/2013/08/the-great-ptolemaic-smackdown.html
14:54 jurov muchly recommend
14:55 asciilifeform i second the rec
14:56 asciilifeform Mike Flynn is an odd fellow. very much 'anti-Enlightenment (TM)'.
14:56 qxzn is there a decent writeup somewhere of that Ripple "demonstration" TradeFortress made?
14:56 mircea_popescu the first article is largely factual
14:57 mircea_popescu qxzn probably not past a number of scammer threads on the forum.
14:57 qxzn aw, that's a shame, it was such a good story
14:57 mircea_popescu yeah i guess so. maybe one of the bloggers recounts it sometime.
14:58 Namworld bah, doesn't work
14:58 Namworld To hell with this
14:59 mircea_popescu Namworld in honestly hexediting seems a little hardcore
15:01 Namworld It worked before when MPEx moved to MPEx.co
15:01 Namworld Those things are plaintext
15:01 Namworld In any hex editor
15:02 mircea_popescu you did also resubmit your pubkey right ?
15:03 Namworld Nope. Would explain it.
15:05 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 12 @ 0.008961 = 0.1075 BTC [-]
15:06 Namworld Pubkey has been emailed.
15:08 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 75 @ 0.00259998 = 0.195 BTC [-]
15:11 mircea_popescu http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/09/rsa-warns-developers-against-its-own.html
15:11 ozbot A Few Thoughts on Cryptographic Engineering: RSA warns developers not to use RSA products
15:11 mircea_popescu for a little lol
15:12 mircea_popescu best part is the "Sam is the boldface" bit lol
15:23 Namworld I see you re-added my key. Thank you.
15:34 mircea_popescu so your evil plan to hexedit an exe compile actually worked ?
15:34 KRS1 Effective October 28, 2013 at 4pm CT, Dwolla will be withdrawing its service offerings to virtual currency exchanges and virtual currency related services.
15:34 mircea_popescu KRS1 didn't they do this like... 3 times already ?
15:35 Namworld Yes, it worked
15:35 KRS1 I think so, but they're still working with exchanges like campbx.
15:35 KRS1 this is probably it
15:35 Namworld Key to use and url to submit appears as plaintext in the compile.
15:38 KRS1 Virtual currency is slowly becoming a bad word.
15:39 Namworld Because virtual = Does not exist in people's mind.
15:40 Namworld People just need to learn their bank account statements are just as virtual.
15:40 Namworld If they want something not virtual, they can just hold physical gold and silver or such thing.
15:40 KRS1 someone needs to show them that lesson
15:42 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 1.03639999 = 5.182 BTC [+] {4}
15:43 KRS1 Dwolla says Virtual Currency customers/merchants are 0.1 percent of their customer base..Hmm.
15:43 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00945598 = 0.4728 BTC [+] {3}
15:52 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 5 @ 0.098002 = 0.49 BTC [-] {2}
15:54 mircea_popescu dwolla has a customer base now ?!
15:55 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 1st time i heard of dwolla, the consonant cluster made me think it was a nigerian spam bank.
15:56 mircea_popescu it's a venture circuit scam thing, which is homologuous.
15:56 KRS1 one of the only tools people have to move cash in/out of the system
15:57 mircea_popescu for some values of "people".
15:57 mircea_popescu anyway, i guess few are aware, but as per genius satoshi design the main way to move cash into bitcoin is mining
15:57 mircea_popescu (via electricity consumption).
15:58 mircea_popescu this was always the case to date.
15:58 mircea_popescu the 2nd way is... also mining. through miner production.
15:58 KRS1 so take fiat out of the equation..are bitcoins actually worth anything then? I dont know of anything you can do with them besides get some goods and services, best case.
15:58 mircea_popescu yes, they are.
15:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if only this worked in reverse gear.
15:59 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the reason it can't work in reverse gear is that fiat is worthless.
16:00 asciilifeform i was thinking more along the lines of btc to watts, rather than dollars
16:00 KRS1 I apparently stepped into a chat room on another planet.
16:00 asciilifeform KRS1: nah, that's at #urbit
16:00 KRS1 lol for real
16:00 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i expect we will have brtc to watts.
16:00 KRS1 but what about the Nigerian Sperm bank?
16:00 mircea_popescu recently i had a wire fail to a supplier, and they were "well, send me bitcoin ?"
16:04 Namworld Supplier of what?
16:05 Namworld Wish everyone did that
16:05 mircea_popescu electronic parts.
16:06 mircea_popescu course, electricity is a monopoly in most places for good physical reasons, so i guess the btc to watt thing will be one of the later parts.
16:06 mircea_popescu but this changes little really.
~ 17 minutes ~
16:23 jurov http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1o5enf/just_got_this_insane_email_from_bitstamp/
16:25 mircea_popescu "Bitcoins will be transferred only after conversion into a currency."
16:25 mircea_popescu herp
16:25 mircea_popescu We kindly ask you to withdraw your Bitcoins to a wallet outside of Bitstamp.net. If you do not withdraw your Bitcoins in 24 hours as instructed in the previous paragraph, please provide us with a valid bank account held in your name in a reply to this Account Termination Notice so Bitstamp can proceed with your Account termination and send you the currencies credited to your Account within 14 business days after your
16:25 mircea_popescu Account has been terminated.
16:25 mircea_popescu pretty illogical.
16:26 kakobrekla does the css look good?
16:26 mircea_popescu "You must have mentioned Fiat Banking."
16:26 jurov OP says below it's not a scam cuz they did close the acct
16:26 mircea_popescu that made it worth it lol
~ 16 minutes ~
16:42 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 397 @ 0.001229 = 0.4879 BTC [-]
16:55 jurov ;;bc,stats
16:55 gribble Current Blocks: 262818 | Current Difficulty: 1.8928124928103292E8 | Next Difficulty At Block: 264095 | Next Difficulty In: 1277 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 10 hours, 47 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 228440874.109 | Estimated Percent Change: 20.68859
16:56 jurov heh right on track
16:58 jurov maybe it will produce 1278th block on oct 17, 00:00:01 and CB.IDIFF-E holders will eat me alive :D
17:02 jborkl "KNC support just emailed me back saying that 440 ghash (what 50btc reports), 900 watts from the wall, and chip temps of 65-72c in a 58F room are 'within spec'...Not awesome."
17:03 jurov dip it in lube
17:03 jurov er.. oil
17:04 kakobrekla ;;calc 440/900
17:04 gribble 0.488888888889
17:05 mircea_popescu i forget what the spec was supposed to be
17:05 kakobrekla dunno
17:05 jurov >350GH/s, <1KW for Jupiter
17:06 jborkl Mineral oil is so expensive, I have thought about it many times-
17:09 jurov and it can't be changed for water cooler, can be?
17:11 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00968748 = 0.9687 BTC [+] {6}
17:11 jborkl I would have to look at it and see what would fit it, otherwise that could get really expensive - it also might too big of a system to cool it
17:12 jborkl ight be too
17:12 jborkl m
17:12 kakobrekla watercooling is prolly not worth it
17:17 jborkl I thinnk I am going to dnk a blade in mineral oil and see how it does on temps - just for the hell of it
17:18 mircea_popescu so then 900 watt 440 gh is indeed in spec neh ?
17:18 mircea_popescu jurov nah, you need special oil pumps.
17:19 kakobrekla for water cooling a pc? not rly
17:19 jurov i'm no expert.. supposedly it works with normal pc (except hdd), but 1kW is prolly too much
17:20 mircea_popescu jborkl nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1437.pdf‎
17:20 jurov i mean, submerging it into oil
17:20 mircea_popescu make sure you know what you're doing with that.
17:21 mircea_popescu it has a slight but present fire hazard and is toxic if it burns.
17:21 mircea_popescu also a bitch to extinguish
17:22 jborkl hmm, well maybe not then
17:22 kakobrekla you can test if the blown cap can set it on fire
17:22 mircea_popescu lol
17:23 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2013/and-now-i-shall-be-off-scarfing-smoked-salmon-and-fresh-apple-pie-seasoned-with-free-market-tears-or-why-a-collection-of-confused-retards-does-not-amount-to-a-free-market/#comment-95504
17:23 ozbot And now I shall be off scarfing smoked salmon and fresh apple pie seasoned with free market tears, o
17:23 mircea_popescu this is turning into quite the argument
17:31 jborkl I wonder how the KNC hosting center is holding up to 900 w per unit? Reptilla should take trip to the sauna in there
17:31 jborkl considering they bought 850 w power supplies, as per the photos
17:31 mircea_popescu good AC should be able to pump out something in the .1 to 1 MW per floor
17:32 mircea_popescu o
17:34 jurov good PSU's can supply more than rated but still something's fishy
17:36 mircea_popescu it is possible the unit just works with whatever power it's being fed.
17:36 mircea_popescu the knc ppl are slightly underfeeding it,w hich is why it doesn't pop as much ?
~ 15 minutes ~
17:51 jurov which is why it doesn't pop as much ? lol
17:51 mircea_popescu well they said theirs don't explode right ?
17:54 jborkl http://imgur.com/a/s44NM
17:54 ozbot KNC Jupiter - Imgur
17:54 jborkl nice shipping
17:55 nanotube mircea_popescu: http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/09/fatal-crypto-flaw-in-some-government-certified-smartcards-makes-forgery-a-snap/ <- make sure your s.nsa product isn't stupid like this. :)
17:56 mircea_popescu im just here to collect the praise. admonitions go to asciilifeform :D
17:59 mircea_popescu anyway, someone should make a web key checker already
17:59 jurov As many of 10,000 of these smartcards may provide little or no cryptographic protection despite receiving two internationally recognized certifications.
17:59 jurov ^ the web checker would be no better than these certifications
18:01 jurov and i don't see how would devote hours to try cracking all submitted keys like the researchers did
18:01 mircea_popescu jurov it couldn't identify a good key, but it could identify a bad one
18:03 jurov nosuchagency can provide it.. as a marketing tool
18:03 mircea_popescu perhaps.
18:11 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.00085104 = 2.6382 BTC [-]
18:15 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 246 @ 0.0024189 = 0.595 BTC [-] {2}
18:17 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 400 @ 0.00223127 = 0.8925 BTC [-] {6}
~ 32 minutes ~
18:50 ThickAsThieves ;;nethash
18:50 gribble 1768924.77853
18:50 ThickAsThieves ;;bcstats
18:50 gribble Current Blocks: 262831 | Current Difficulty: 1.8928124928103292E8 | Next Difficulty At Block: 264095 | Next Difficulty In: 1264 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 8 hours, 26 minutes, and 31 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 228797587.534 | Estimated Percent Change: 20.87705
18:55 KRS- Hey vexual you might like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwGdzkJD5N8
~ 1 hours 26 minutes ~
20:21 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 450 @ 0.00084959 = 0.3823 BTC [-]
20:32 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7500 @ 0.00084917 = 6.3688 BTC [-] {2}
20:34 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2960 @ 0.00019003 = 0.5625 BTC [-] {4}
20:35 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4897 @ 0.00019002 = 0.9305 BTC [-] {3}
20:36 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 6058 @ 0.00019 = 1.151 BTC [-] {3}
~ 29 minutes ~
21:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00084776 = 1.6107 BTC [-]
~ 25 minutes ~
21:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 607 @ 0.00084806 = 0.5148 BTC [+]
21:34 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4350 @ 0.00085276 = 3.7095 BTC [+]
21:34 BingoBoingo So... I think math is broke. Apparently the public key for one of my addresses can hash into a different addresss.
21:38 mircea_popescu that's odd. you mean with a different hash ?
21:42 nanotube mircea_popescu> im just here to collect the praise. admonitions go to asciilifeform :D <- in that case... good idea, that cardano thing! :)
21:42 mircea_popescu ty ty
21:43 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Yeah. I'm working on a report. The report will probably be in the form of a post titled "Fuckity Fuck Fuck" as I GPG sign a revocation of a certain address's message signing privileges.
21:44 pankkake BingoBoingo: it's actually very common for gpg (the short pub key)
21:44 mircea_popescu try and reproduce the behaviour first.
21:44 pankkake it happened to me too
21:45 pankkake that's why people should give the full fingerprint
21:45 Jere_Jones BingoBoingo: Bitcoin addresses are hashed public keys, right? The private key that corresponds to that public key actually has two public keys. A compressed version and a noncompressed version.
21:45 BingoBoingo pankkake: This isn't GPG. It is RIPEMD 160 being able to assign a public key two (maybe more) bitcoin addresses.
21:46 Jere_Jones Well, yeah.
21:46 Jere_Jones 256 bits doesn't fit into 160 bits.
21:46 BingoBoingo Fucking NSA bullshit undermining the Integrity of Mathematics.
21:46 Jere_Jones I imagined it to be exceedingly rare though.
21:46 pankkake oh
21:46 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo that's not possible.
21:47 mircea_popescu multiple privates might hash to the same one address, but that's insanely rare.
21:47 mircea_popescu the same private having ambiguous results however is impossible.
21:47 mircea_popescu the first would be a collision. the second would be a case of 4+5 being sometimes 8, sometimes 9
21:47 Jere_Jones BingoBoingo, are you saying the same 256 bit public key ran through RIPEMD160 gave you two different answers?
21:49 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Jere_Jones It is just a standard Bitcoin address's underlying public key. mircea_popescu I'm not sure what to think anymoar. I will say fuck vanitygen.
21:49 mircea_popescu you using a web based service to make the keys ?
21:50 mircea_popescu they're shit. i could never get them to make usable addresses.
21:51 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: The key wasn't generated on a web based service, but a web based service turned the public key into an unexpected address.
21:51 mircea_popescu because they're broken lol
21:51 mircea_popescu retry with the original method.
21:52 Jere_Jones If you have the private key, turn that into the other public key and see if that gives you the address you're looking for.
21:52 BingoBoingo 1LC9GzYK1zjrG9zAvMPExcwHTP8aPYPMyY apparently is an imposter for my beloved 1LvCuntsJyFFQsLuJhBXBPokbQa7SAyMr4 address in the message signed on my contacts and credentials page. I'm trying more messages at the moment, but it looks like GPG is going to have to save the day.
21:53 Jere_Jones I can help you but you need the private key.
21:53 mircea_popescu i think you're jumping to conclusions.
21:53 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Maybe.
21:54 BingoBoingo Maybe I should go to #bitcoin-dev or wherever the muppets live and troll them up a bit with this.
21:54 mircea_popescu use a proper process to turn privkey into pubkey then hash that and see what you get.
21:54 mircea_popescu wherwe website != proper process
21:54 dexX7 mind to give out some samples like messages + signatures for both addresses?
21:55 BingoBoingo dexX7: plug the message and signature here http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/contact-and-credentials/ into http://brainwallet.org/#verify
21:56 Jere_Jones 1LC9GzYK1zjrG9zAvMPExcwHTP8aPYPMyY
21:56 dexX7 i see, sec
21:58 BingoBoingo The problem is that 1LC9GzYK1zjrG9zAvMPExcwHTP8aPYPMyY could have signed the same message. Maybe it could have signed a more malicious message. Fuck. Just because elliptic curves are sexy doesn't mean they should be used everywhere.
21:59 mircea_popescu i bet you 1LC9GzYK1zjrG9zAvMPExcwHTP8aPYPMyY could not have signed the same message.
22:00 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Maybe. Maybe it is just some odd intersection and I need to go back to adding giberish at the end of everything I sign.
22:00 Jere_Jones I'm not showing that message verigying with 1LvCunts
22:04 mircea_popescu i tell uyou, the brainwallet implementation is borkt.
22:04 mircea_popescu might be because of how javascript runs on some systems
22:04 BingoBoingo Jere_Jones: At the most charitable where there isn't a collision it ought probably assumed at a minimum Bitcoin address signing merely sucks and is poorly implemented. If you are the sort who goes for minimums.
22:05 Jere_Jones It doesn't verify in bitcoin-qt
22:05 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Maybe. You'd think they could at least verify things right.
22:05 dexX7 hehe odd
22:05 dexX7 1HF8us88HGVh7gYEJpjxXS79AW2vDyZiAp
22:05 dexX7 is the address that is resolved for this msg/signature
22:05 mircea_popescu ha!
22:05 mircea_popescu so that's a third.
22:05 BingoBoingo Maybe the problem isn't the signature or the message. Maybe Bitcoin Address signing is just fucked.
22:05 dexX7 the other two are invalid
22:05 mircea_popescu listen, use a witness signature implementation and check.
22:05 mircea_popescu the site is whack.
22:06 dexX7 verified with stock btc client + some php lib that i'm using to resolve (msg, sig) -> addr
22:06 dexX7 but it actually should work with "1LvCuntsJyFFQsLuJhBXBPokbQa7SAyMr4"?
22:06 Jere_Jones Yep. bitcoin-qt verified it with that address.
22:08 dexX7 not for me
22:09 Jere_Jones I meant 1HF8us
22:09 BingoBoingo Jeff Gazarizadickbag can suck mine.
22:09 dexX7 http://i.imgur.com/GLnJGZ9.png
22:09 dexX7 ah k
22:09 mircea_popescu hm
22:10 mircea_popescu they have some bug in the sig implementation ?
22:10 mircea_popescu anyone willing to make 1k keys, sign 1k messages and see if the signed messages actually resolve to the proper keys ?
22:10 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Probably they have a bug, in the least bad imagining of things.
22:11 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo are you sure you didn't sign with that other address tghrough some process involving for instance vodka ?
22:12 lol
22:12 Are you sure you even signed it and didn't copy the sig from someone else?
22:13 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Rather sure. I don't have a key for that other address in any of my wallets. The pages on the blog were some of the few things I remember making sober.
22:13 mircea_popescu apparently sober is bad luck for you. anyway, this warrants some testing.
22:14 not really
22:14 address signing isn't a replacement for gpg signing
22:14 mircea_popescu no, but if address signing works so you sign with one address and it verifyes with another i'd like to know
22:15 Why?
22:15 mircea_popescu because there's enough lols in there to keep us going through a day or two even
22:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1600 @ 0.0008514 = 1.3622 BTC [-]
22:15 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Yeah, in the meantime: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/contact-and-credentials/ I'll be watching BitBet rather closely to sweep any winnings to safer addresses.
22:15 has AM listed on MPEX yet?
22:15 mircea_popescu mnop
22:16 q
22:16 mircea_popescu ;;ident BingoBoingo
22:16 gribble Nick 'BingoBoingo', with hostmask 'BingoBoingo!~BingoBoin@unaffiliated/bingoboingo', is not identified.
22:16 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Let me gribble real quick
22:17 mircea_popescu just wanted to see if you made an accct
22:17 mircea_popescu whoa!
22:17 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I finally made a nickserve account
22:17 mircea_popescu i just got pointed out to me that 1LC9GzYK1zjrG9zAv >>MPEx<< cwHTP8aPYPMyY
22:18 mircea_popescu all your itams are belong to me ?
22:21 Jere_Jones I wonder if Havelock is being DDOS'd or if they just can't handle the load of being the stock exchange that receives the most traffic.
22:21 BingoBoingo ;;ident BingoBoingo
22:21 gribble Nick 'BingoBoingo', with hostmask 'BingoBoingo!~BingoBoin@unaffiliated/bingoboingo', is identified as user BingoBoingo, with GPG key id 309BB8D7F3251143, key fingerprint ADD7A9A28F85E5EF1F51904F309BB8D7F3251143, and bitcoin address None
22:21 BingoBoingo I have updated http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/contact-and-credentials/
22:22 mircea_popescu Jere_Jones not that much trading for all that traffic.
22:22 Jere_Jones I *know*!
22:25 BingoBoingo It's kind of funny I registered with gribble months ago, yet on I only registered with nickserv last week.
22:27 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu asciilifeform: Is there a rough estimate on how the Cardano will be priced?
22:28 mircea_popescu well surely there is, but it's not public.
22:31 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I'm a bit curious because the Cardono seems like something a person would purchase a few of.
22:31 mircea_popescu one for each gf!
22:35 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: One for each girl. One for each dude providing muscle. The possibilities are endless. General Patraeus would have had a career if only he could have given his side bitch a Cardano.
22:35 mircea_popescu aptly put
22:36 BingoBoingo I imagine a Cardano gift set with lacey panties and a digital camera and a second gift set with a Cardano and a blackjack.
22:36 mircea_popescu anyway, to quote the main man, <asciilifeform> here
22:36 mircea_popescu <asciilifeform> shaving pennies off the draft design
22:37 Jere_Jones BingoBoingo: It appears that the people with the expertise you need aren't paying attention in #bitcoin-dev. I'd try back in 12 hours.
22:38 BingoBoingo Jere_Jones: Honestly it doesn't seem like a matter where I need their expertise so much as they need my accident. I mean if they know how this IRC thing works they will know to scroll up.
22:40 BingoBoingo Jere_Jones: If they don't know to scroll up or check logs why are they on the internet and not Facebook.
22:41 Jere_Jones They will, honestly, need more details. A bug report without replication steps is fairly useless.
22:43 mircea_popescu that's a point.
22:44 BingoBoingo Jere_Jones: Well I'm not offering the private key until at least the last BitBet associated with that address resolves. Maybe some elliptic surves intersected at the point of that message. Maybe it is something worse. It is honestly more their problem than mine though I will be happy to offer them information short of the private key. The replication steps are surprisingly short and I imagine unhelpful.
22:45 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo you wouldn't offer the private key tho
22:46 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Of course not, unless someone was paying out more for it than the outstanding BitBet Bets paying to the derived address.
22:47 mircea_popescu can you sign another message with that address btw ?
22:48 mircea_popescu you could do this as a succession of screenshots. here i sign X with address Y
22:48 mircea_popescu here i try to check it and it checks to address Z
22:50 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Sure, just for shits and giggles I will hope it isn't some PRNG problem.
22:51 dexX7 1. ’ is the source 2. ’ != ´ 3. strlen("’") = 3 x_X 4. it creates a not matching signature every time, if you use ’ + more than 250 other chars
22:52 mircea_popescu wait what ?
22:53 dexX7 yup
22:53 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: http://bitbin.it/kChBkUKd dexX7 Are you implying Bitcoin address signatures are more worthless than I though?
22:53 mircea_popescu dexX7 let me say this myself to see.
22:54 mircea_popescu if using particular characters such as ´, the signing goes bonkers creating signatures that go with random addresses instead of the correct address ?
22:55 dexX7 only if you add >= 250 other chars
22:55 mircea_popescu wow.
22:55 mircea_popescu how do you know this ?
22:56 BingoBoingo Fuck this is why Bitcoin needs a mother fucking Spec.
22:57 dexX7 i tested it by shortening the message and replacing the chars with others
23:00 BingoBoingo dexX7: Still, there is no reason why Bitcoin address signed messages can't have a container like GPG signatures do. It would be so much easier to demonstrate this is broken or solid if only there were a standard container for signed messages.
23:01 dexX7 like ----BEGIN ...?
23:03 BingoBoingo dexX7: I don't know if that is sarcasm, but yes. That is actually incredibly useful to have.
23:04 dexX7 i see. yes, it is.
23:06 BingoBoingo dexX7: For better or worse the GPG armored format lets idiots import keys and signatures. I contrast the bitcoin address format has not container and simply solicits information. Apparently that information can often be wrong.
23:06 mircea_popescu dexX7 well wd.
23:06 mircea_popescu this is so much derp i have trouble believing it.
23:06 dexX7 did you test it?
23:07 mircea_popescu i don't even dare imagine what'd have happened should anyone have taken garzik's alternative exchange seriously and puit money/effort into that
23:07 mircea_popescu only to discover 6 months later that well...
23:07 BingoBoingo I'm probably just going to watch this for a few times, cum, and then take a relaxing walk. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdJRafNcfkw
23:08 mircea_popescu dexX7 nope, i don't have software that does the signature stuff.
23:08 dexX7 no standard btc client?
23:08 mircea_popescu nothing recent.
23:08 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I've also started and aborted a tor study.
23:09 BingoBoingo Box got owned. Nothing subtle at all.
23:09 mircea_popescu lol
23:09 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: care to elaborate ?
23:10 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: I'm authed on gribble /msg me and I will offer some things on a more disposable venue
23:14 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: If you want a lot of details use http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/pgp/ directed at bingoboingo357@gmail.com
23:16 KRS- nice video
23:31 ;;ident
23:31 gribble You are not identified.
23:31 lies!
23:31 ;;ident
23:31 gribble You are identified as user imsaguy, with GPG key id 7D7EA76776E6CE48, key fingerprint A1398F4C58AC3D387F012AFA7D7EA76776E6CE48, and bitcoin address 1Hf5qWZzd2WsrDwLhkykNc4uXPAkykg9PM
23:32 now someone send some dust to that address ^
23:32 I gotta try something out
23:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2842 @ 0.00084966 = 2.4147 BTC [-] {2}
23:59 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 153 @ 0.00970521 = 1.4849 BTC [-] {6}
23:59 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.965454 = 5.7927 BTC [-] {5}
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