Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2013-10-08 | 2013-10-10 → ↓
00:00 mircea_popescu thestringpuller link to that bet ?
00:01 Namworld Isn't it odd? Bitfinex still around. It's Bitcoinica 2.0 pretty much.
00:01 Namworld Guess they managed to outdo their predecessor.
00:02 Lennix1 well namworld I don't want to disillusionate you, but it seems that the only thing Ukto is doing, is watching his pile of bitcoins grow and grow
00:02 Namworld Now to see how long it lasts. I'm curious
00:02 kakobrekla outdo by time
00:02 kakobrekla not by volume
00:03 Namworld Yeah. Well volume is reasonable, but not amazing I guess?
00:03 assbot AMAZING COMPANY!
00:03 kakobrekla ass has it
00:03 Namworld Ukto has been bleeding money on lawyers lately, or so I've heard.
00:04 Namworld And he'll fix the thing and refund fees, any mishaps like this costs him in credibility and trading volume.
00:04 mircea_popescu Namworld in the catatonic state it's in it can last indefinitely. icbit.se is still around too.
00:04 Namworld He had trades working back in order in less than 10 minutes from being notified.
00:05 mircea_popescu was it actually going for the entire day ?
00:05 Namworld Now he has to fix trading fees that were charged
00:05 Namworld Well not the full day. I guess for like a few hours, not sure.
00:05 Namworld Maybe like 6-8 hours
00:05 mircea_popescu couldn't have been that many trades anyone, someone'd have noticed/bitched.
00:05 mircea_popescu anyway*
00:06 Namworld Bitfinex volume isn't that low. There's like 1 million usd and 2000 BTC loaned out for margin trading right now.
00:07 Namworld It's bigger than icbit.se if I'm not mistaken.
00:08 Namworld icbit.se volume is incredibly low AFAIK?
00:09 kakobrekla aha finex has a new page
00:09 Namworld They changed the interface. It's quite decent now.
00:10 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 1.239 = 12.39 BTC [-]
00:10 Namworld Volume is a bit bigger than before. I'd say it's decent.
00:10 Namworld Well there's enough liquidity for it to work for any margin trader.
00:10 Namworld I'm just too afraid to use it knowing they used Bitcoinica's source code.
00:11 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 1.20246666 = 10.8222 BTC [-] {2}
00:11 Namworld Also pretty much stole their source code...
00:11 mod6 dont get zhou tonged
00:12 Namworld Pretty much
00:12 Namworld Still, I'm impressed
00:12 Namworld They didn't get owned so far
00:16 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.17 BTC [-]
00:17 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00290019 = 0.58 BTC [-] {5}
00:18 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 400 @ 0.001055 = 0.422 BTC [-] {2}
00:18 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2700 @ 0.00083991 = 2.2678 BTC [-] {2}
00:18 dub do they have backups?
00:18 Namworld I put like 12000 USD back in April selling at 150-160, made a few hundreds in interest, bought back BTC at 90-95 USD, withdrew BTC. Now I have a few hundreds USD in lending lol.
00:18 Namworld Arf, forgot about that
00:19 Namworld They claim daily backup and offline wallet
00:19 dub I had forgoten btc on ozcoin until it got stolen
00:19 mircea_popescu Namworld i can confidently say their volume is < 100 btc.
00:19 mircea_popescu anyone can print any numbers they want on their own website.
00:20 Namworld They have 10000 BTC according to their website stats (1 million USD + 2000 BTC)
00:21 Namworld Would it really be surprising considering the scam IPOs which collected far more?
00:21 dub story checks out
00:21 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.0029 = 0.58 BTC [-]
00:22 Diablo-D3 heh
00:22 Diablo-D3 well, I guess thats the end of the DMC buyback.
00:22 kakobrekla go back to glbse
00:23 mircea_popescu except the scams didn't collect far more, they claimed to have collected far more.
00:23 mircea_popescu which is generally and universally a very easy claim to make.
00:23 Namworld What happens with that?
00:23 kakobrekla they did collect more than 10k
00:23 kakobrekla the scams
00:23 mircea_popescu anyway, im off to bed. nn & gl.
00:24 Namworld True, true. Like LetsDice IPO
00:24 kakobrekla cya
00:24 Namworld Probably most of the BTC was invested by owners
00:24 Namworld "invested"
00:24 kakobrekla !jd
00:24 assbot Just-Dice stat: 1191 BTC profit, 56.1k BTC invested, 162.93 mio bets, 4.01 mio BTC wagered
00:24 Namworld Just fake demand
00:25 Namworld JD has 40x Coinroll's BTC wagered and like 1.25x Coinroll's profit on same house edge.
00:25 Namworld Nakowa took it all
00:26 kakobrekla anyone got a clue how is sdice doing
00:27 Namworld idk, make a script and scout the blockchain for said clue
00:27 kakobrekla i think theres new phishing email going around
00:28 kakobrekla >This mail was sent your account. FBI Shuts Down 'Silk Road' Online Now Bitcointallk.org Warning Situation Your donation can support this https://bitcointalk.org Now that this news is true we need the help of people who are willing to help us with your donation, you can do this and to support our staff at a time that is happening now, we are in need during the donation and therefore call and ask for help much as you can for technical updat
00:28 kakobrekla > improvements to our Projects and support the future of Scene Bitcoin Bitcoin: 1YiyQPSR656jLZAU7oEnpcxBZTvAFU8uU Litecoin: LfDKcZHUuQKrr14pt5iBuPnsWRUiFcSzYo if you send just 0.1 or some btc to wallet you very help us Your donation can support this peace thanx for sent your btc
00:29 dub loool
00:30 dub sad part is if these fucks could find someone that speaks english that shit would probably yield with 80% of the forum tards
00:32 Namworld Any scam mails would yield like 100x better results if proper English was used...
00:32 Namworld I guess illiteracy and staying poor goes hand in hand.
00:32 CopperWireBeard You no right!
00:42 nubbins` ;;later tell mircea_popescu check your email when you get a chance; further evidence as to why i leave the artwork to others ;(
00:42 gribble The operation succeeded.
00:42 nubbins` oh hey a new personal message from the bitcointalk.org forums!
00:42 nubbins` i better get some btc ready to send
00:46 nubbins` oh, it was actually a legit message, now i feel silly
00:56 KRS1 Idk scammers from Nigeria do rather well.
00:56 KRS1 and they're actually quite pleasant and polite. Can't say the same for those form Somalia.
00:58 kakobrekla yeah those are snakes!
00:59 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00084793 = 2.7982 BTC [+] {2}
01:00 nubbins` time for bed!
~ 15 minutes ~
01:15 Diablo-D3 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=130117.msg3302045#msg3302045
01:15 ozbot [BitFunder] Asset Exchange Marketplace + Rewritable Options Trading
01:15 Diablo-D3 can someone tell me where hes quoting that from?
01:17 Diablo-D3 oh I found it
01:17 Diablo-D3 its actually on the damned website
01:22 dub I like how theymos hasn't mentioned the hack or recommended changing passwords in any comms to users
01:22 dub dude is a stand up guy
01:23 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 1.135 = 2.27 BTC [-] {2}
01:34 mod6 well if he doesn't mention it, i guess it never happened.
01:36 Diablo-D3 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77469.msg3304465#msg3304465
01:36 ozbot [BitFunder] Diablo Mining Company [shifting gears]
01:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00084451 = 5.8271 BTC [-]
01:56 Diablo-D3 dub: because there wasnt a hack
01:56 Maraneth Hello
01:56 Diablo-D3 it was just government interference
01:58 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00083952 = 5.7087 BTC [-] {2}
01:59 Maraneth Does anyone know how to change passthrough shares into direct shares?
02:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 766 @ 0.00083949 = 0.643 BTC [-]
02:21 dub Diablo-D3: wat
02:27 Namworld Void? What about the holdings? You can't pocket them for yourself.
02:34 Namworld This logic is flawed. Any entity wishing to comply to regulations should attempt to close properly. Which certainly doesn't entail voiding existing contracts and pocketing assets. That may only hurt your plans.
02:35 Namworld Auction assets and do a forced buyback.
02:35 Namworld Should be short and expeditive.
02:38 Namworld Complying involves typically excluding further investments from non-eligible investors and proper closure. Not voiding and keeping assets.
02:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 400 @ 0.00083921 = 0.3357 BTC [-]
02:47 Namworld Isn't your identity known? If you just pocket DMC's assets like that... Not going to look nice.
02:48 Namworld That kind of behavior would actually look really bad...
02:49 dub what assets?
02:50 Namworld Should be around 300 ASICMINER-PT left among others
02:51 Namworld Was a 11 DMC to 1 ASICMINER-PT conversion and should be good for about all outstanding shares
02:51 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 150 @ 0.00106601 = 0.1599 BTC [-] {3}
02:51 Namworld Plus some other assets that could be considered pretty much valueless.
02:52 dub I guess thats something
02:53 Namworld Something like 40'000 USD
02:53 dub you're right about the rest though, the days of play exchanges are over
02:53 Namworld I recommend liquidation and payout to all holders and close.
02:54 Namworld Easy to sell ASICMINERs and auction the other stuff.
02:58 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 1448 @ 0.00113839 = 1.6484 BTC [+] {4}
~ 34 minutes ~
03:33 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1600 @ 0.00025 = 0.4 BTC [-] {3}
03:34 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 622 @ 0.00024992 = 0.1555 BTC [-] {2}
03:37 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3104 @ 0.00023489 = 0.7291 BTC [-] {4}
03:41 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2043 @ 0.00021474 = 0.4387 BTC [-] {5}
03:42 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 7957 @ 0.00020005 = 1.5918 BTC [-] {3}
03:45 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 644 @ 0.00019997 = 0.1288 BTC [-] {2}
03:52 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2747 @ 0.000185 = 0.5082 BTC [-] {3}
03:54 Diablo-D3 [02:27:41] <Namworld> Void? What about the holdings? You can't pocket them for yourself.
03:54 Diablo-D3 Namworld: no, but the company is free to keep them in the company's pocket.
03:55 Diablo-D3 Namworld: dont worry, DMC has not been critically injured in vain.
03:55 Diablo-D3 It'll be back.
03:56 Diablo-D3 Namworld: and if you're worried about your shares of your asset, you can have them.
03:57 Diablo-D3 Namworld: all 106 shares of BTC-MINING are yours.
03:57 Diablo-D3 its what you wanted, anyways, and I dont see amazingrando ever being brought to justice
04:09 dub lol
04:10 Diablo-D3 Namworld: if you think Im just going to run from the SEC, Im not.
04:11 Diablo-D3 Namworld: but DMC was never created merely to make money. It was created for much grander purposes.
04:11 Diablo-D3 Namworld: oh, dont get me wrong, it made lots of money, all of which ended up in investor's hands
04:12 Diablo-D3 Namworld: but dont say shit like "you're running off with company assets"
04:12 Diablo-D3 No, I'm funding a war against those who want to see Bitcoin fail.
04:12 dub DMC: The war against failure
04:14 pankkake are you saying DMC won't Run?
04:16 phish lol
04:20 Diablo-D3 pankkake: at least you used that for a joke
04:21 Diablo-D3 I mean, where DMC is going, we don't need roads.
04:21 pankkake hehehe
04:22 ThickAsThieves off a cliff?
04:23 Diablo-D3 ThickAsThieves: no, but I tend on pushing the SEC off one
04:23 pankkake don't be mean, Diablo might cry
04:24 Namworld You still can't take DMC's assets
04:24 Diablo-D3 Namworld: good. Im not.
04:24 Diablo-D3 DMC is retaining them as per the shareholder contract.
04:26 Namworld No, because you're voiding shares. It's effectively theft.
04:28 Diablo-D3 Namworld: no, effectively the SEC has done this.
04:28 Diablo-D3 I'm only complying.
04:29 Namworld You can't arbitrarily void them. SEC would agree it wasn't done properly. But you can't void past actions.
04:30 ThickAsThieves While I wasn't around for the earlier offenses, it does seem that DMC always manages to find a the worst way to manage its assets
04:30 Diablo-D3 No, but shareholders also have no right to the assets as per the contract.
04:30 Diablo-D3 ThickAsThieves: not at all. for the majority of DMC's life, its been almost entirely invested in AM
04:30 ThickAsThieves So, tell me, what will this move afford you for DMC's future?
04:30 Namworld No right to assets, but you don't either.
04:31 Diablo-D3 ThickAsThieves: the only failures have been Namworld's BTC-MINING and yochdog's BTCMC
04:31 Namworld You can keep it running as it is right now or liquidate and force buyout.
04:31 ThickAsThieves just auction the assets
04:31 ThickAsThieves pretty simple
04:32 Diablo-D3 ThickAsThieves: not viable.
04:32 Diablo-D3 ThickAsThieves: and theres virtually no assets lefct
04:32 ThickAsThieves i assume anything other than what youve chose is 'not viable'
04:32 Diablo-D3 Namworld helped amazingrando run off with 106 BTC
04:32 ThickAsThieves chosen*
04:32 Namworld There's ASICMINERs left.
04:32 Diablo-D3 yochdog is in the process of liquidation
04:33 ThickAsThieves meh, i'm not sure why i got into this conversation
04:33 ThickAsThieves surely it will only be a chore
04:33 Diablo-D3 ThickAsThieves: I dont know either. You dont own any DMC afaik.
04:33 Diablo-D3 Namworld: you clearly think the contract says something it doesn't.
04:34 ThickAsThieves http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Reasonable+man+theory
04:34 ozbot Reasonable man theory legal definition of Reasonable man theory. Reasonable man theory synonyms by t
04:34 dub <DMC> its like that, and thats the way it is
04:34 Namworld It doesn't need to. If you sell share in a company and then void shares and get away with it all...
04:34 Namworld It's theft.
04:35 Namworld The no rights to asset clause is merely an indication that we can't directly make a claim on the asset. Not that the manager can take those assets for himself/other endeavours.
04:36 Namworld They remain in DMC and DMC holders are entitled to income/profit. Or in case of activity ceasing, 100% of liquidation value.
04:38 ThickAsThieves ;;ticker
04:38 gribble MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 137.72001, Best ask: 138.49968, Bid-ask spread: 0.77967, Last trade: 137.72001, 24 hour volume: 8146.15003935, 24 hour low: 135.80000, 24 hour high: 139.50000, 24 hour vwap: 137.54397
04:38 ThickAsThieves ;;nethash
04:38 gribble 1605753.10322
04:39 Namworld That's certainly not a proper way to close down.
04:42 Namworld Liquidating and distributing would probably greatly reduce liabilities.
04:42 Namworld Voiding those shares is a silly idea.
04:44 ThickAsThieves particularly if he expects anyone to ever invest in his efforts in the future
04:44 ThickAsThieves though that ship has likely sailed
04:46 Namworld Well I assume it would have to be non-BTC investors. But good luck pulling it off using stolen assets to jumpstart it.
04:47 ThickAsThieves hmm, shouldnt DMC be frozen at this point?
04:50 Namworld Probably
04:51 Diablo-D3 Namworld: it already is afaik
04:51 Diablo-D3 er, ThickAsThieves
04:51 Diablo-D3 I think ukyo said hes freezing all american assets
04:52 ThickAsThieves you need to freeze it yourself
04:52 ThickAsThieves he's not doing that stuff til the 1st
04:52 Namworld Diablo-D3, you can't close DMC like that and you know it.
04:52 Diablo-D3 dont think I can
04:52 Diablo-D3 Namworld: as per the contract, I actually can.
04:52 ThickAsThieves Issuer > Edit Profile > Options
04:52 Namworld As per the contract, you can't
04:53 Namworld There's no clause allowing you to reallocate assets to other people or void shares.
04:53 Namworld You're killing off any chance you have at DMC 2.0
04:54 Diablo-D3 Namworld: assets have not been reallocated.
04:55 Diablo-D3 Namworld: nor has DMC been closed.
04:55 Namworld They have. Shares have been voided.
04:55 Diablo-D3 You seem to be confused.
04:56 Diablo-D3 Shares of DMC do not make DMC exist.
04:56 biteesak ;;bc,24hprc
04:56 gribble 127.94
04:56 Diablo-D3 DMC exists independently of shares existing.
04:56 Namworld If DMC doesn't exist, the transfer of funds for that inexisting company sure took place.
04:57 Diablo-D3 If DMC doesn't exist, then what are we discussing exactly?
04:57 Diablo-D3 Because I'm pretty sure it exists.
04:58 ThickAsThieves without the shares and holdings, DMC arguably does not exist
04:58 ThickAsThieves since it does nothing
04:58 Namworld I said "If", which is not the case. Even if DMC wasn't properly registered, the contract exist and is valid.
04:58 Diablo-D3 ThickAsThieves: companies that do nothing frequently exist.
04:59 Diablo-D3 Namworld: yes, and the contract states shares have no claim to the assets unless the company is closing, thus assets would be liquidated
04:59 Diablo-D3 Namworld: DMC is not closing.
04:59 Namworld It occured. Your identity is known. There's tracks of the whole ordeal. You're arbitrarily voiding DMC 1.0 shares and taking the assets to start and sell shares in DMC 2.0
04:59 Diablo-D3 Namworld: no, no shares in DMC 2.0 will ever exist.
04:59 Diablo-D3 that would just be playing into the SEC's game
05:00 Namworld Well funding will exist.
05:00 Diablo-D3 Yes, funding by people who meet SEC accreditation.
05:00 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1979 @ 0.00286784 = 5.6755 BTC [-] {7}
05:00 Diablo-D3 Which I believe no one in the Bitcoin community can meet.
05:01 Diablo-D3 Namworld: I dont think you realize how dangerous the SEC currently is to America.
05:01 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 521 @ 0.00285103 = 1.4854 BTC [-]
05:01 Namworld One complaint about it and good luck managing to get any funding for DMC 2.0 in any sort of legal way. The fact DMC 1.0 shares were sold to non-accredited people doesn't give you any legal basis to void them.
05:01 Namworld You know it.
05:02 Diablo-D3 Namworld: You can claim what you want.
05:02 Diablo-D3 But DMC has no USD denominated assets, nor physical assets.
05:03 Diablo-D3 What DMC has is virtual assets paid for using virtual money.
05:03 Namworld Doesn't matter that there's no USD assets. That just means it might be hard/impossible to seize. Not that no wrongdoings would be found.
05:03 Diablo-D3 Paid for by people who I believe were in on this scam from the beginning.
05:04 Diablo-D3 And then dragged me into it using lies.
05:04 Diablo-D3 So, I'm washing my hands of this.
05:04 Diablo-D3 When the SEC comes, it will be all up to the rest of you to deal with.
05:04 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.0028018 = 2.8018 BTC [-] {7}
05:05 jurov http://www.theonion.com/articles/national-parks-closed-for-annual-remajestification,17484/ the onion prescient as always
05:05 ozbot National Parks Closed For Annual Remajestification | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
05:05 Diablo-D3 Namworld: I mean, you don't even have a right to even have this argument with me
05:05 Diablo-D3 "amazingrando stole all the money, oh well"
05:05 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1499 @ 0.0027001 = 4.0474 BTC [-] {6}
05:05 Namworld That Nefario lied to you doesn't discharge you from responsibilities to DMC 1.0 holders. You know it. What's been done is done.
05:06 Diablo-D3 You owe DMC 106 BTC, far more than your shares in DMC are worth.
05:07 biteesak http://venturebeat.com/2013/09/23/crowdfunding-with-jobs-act-title-ii-the-web-will-eat-financing-and-investing/
05:07 ozbot Crowdfunding: With JOBS Act Title II, the web will ‘eat financing and investing’ | VentureBeat
05:07 Namworld I owe only what BTC-MINING has in assets, nothing. You can go after me for mismanagement or whatever else.
05:07 Diablo-D3 bitesak: people close to the matter have already admitted its going to be worthless
05:07 Namworld Just like you owe DMC 1.0 holders DMC 1.0's assets.
05:07 Diablo-D3 Namworld: but you dont get it, do you
05:08 Diablo-D3 Im not going after you because I've admitted that you were in on it.
05:08 Namworld in on what?
05:08 Diablo-D3 Same with yochdog, he knew what he was going to do since day one
05:08 Diablo-D3 who knows how much money he made off with.
05:09 Namworld Ah, accusations, you say?
05:09 Diablo-D3 But DMC's two largest assets? btc-mining and btcmc.
05:10 Diablo-D3 two of which can never be liquidated because, frankly, they don't exist.
05:10 Diablo-D3 And I don't think they ever did.
05:10 ThickAsThieves http://bitbet.us/bet/487/dms-will-still-be-traded-at-the-end/
05:10 ozbot BitBet - DMS will still be traded at the end of 2013
05:10 Diablo-D3 But I'm washing my hands of this
05:10 Diablo-D3 DMC cannot afford to sue.
05:11 Namworld They did exist. They all do. What you propose is theft, pure and simple.
05:11 Diablo-D3 What I propose has already been completed after a year of babysitting it.
05:11 dub whats DMS?
05:12 Diablo-D3 Namworld: I'll tell you one thing though
05:12 Diablo-D3 Namworld: when the SEC asks you to do something, you don't discuss it with others, you just do it.
05:12 Diablo-D3 Namworld: and its in your best interest to just do it.
05:14 ThickAsThieves SEC told someone to do something?
05:14 Diablo-D3 ThickAsThieves: the SEC has told a lot of someones to do something.
05:14 ThickAsThieves so wise, this man
05:14 Namworld Well the SEC might disagree with you arbitrarily voiding shareholders who sent you funds. SEC wants compliance, they don't say "Well all that occured without us never existed, don't sweat it."
05:15 Diablo-D3 Namworld: This discussion is over.
05:15 ThickAsThieves reeeow
05:15 Diablo-D3 The shareholder contract has not been violated, more than 100% of shareholder funds have been returned.
05:15 Namworld To some, while others get nothing?
05:16 Namworld You get away with all the extra DMC 1.0 made?
05:16 Namworld If I'm not mistaken, DMC 1.0 as per contract is entitled to all those profits that were made over initial investment.
05:16 Diablo-D3 Namworld: DMC has made no extra, and ends in debt.
05:16 ThickAsThieves I used to trade and hold DMC, then I read trilema articles from back in the day
05:16 Diablo-D3 Namworld: you are in error.
05:17 Diablo-D3 ThickAsThieves: yes, like, mp knows anything about stocks.
05:17 Namworld In debt? How so?
05:17 Diablo-D3 Namworld: money owed to DMC exceeds what DMC has in "assets" (if you can call them that)
05:18 ThickAsThieves ...
05:18 Namworld Unless DMC "OWES SOMETHING TO SOMEONE", it's not in debt.
05:18 Namworld That's the reverse, some are in debt to DMC, DMC is not in debt.
05:18 Namworld DMC made a profit.
05:19 Diablo-D3 DMC made a very small profit.
05:19 Diablo-D3 And it took over 2 and a half years to even get that far.
05:19 Diablo-D3 DMC ends in failure.
05:19 Namworld Still a profit. Holders are entitled to it.
05:19 Diablo-D3 Thats just the way it is.
05:19 Diablo-D3 Yes, and holders were paid it, in full.
05:19 Namworld No, assets remain
05:19 Namworld They were not paid in full.
05:20 Namworld In fact, some weren't repaid at all.
05:20 Diablo-D3 Read the contract.
05:20 Namworld I read it already.
05:22 Diablo-D3 Each share represents 0% of the ownership in the company assets. In the event of liquidation, 100% of the revenue from sales of the assets and 100% of the growth fund, minus any expenses incurred from the operation or liquidation of the company will be paid to shareholders.
05:22 Diablo-D3 So tell me, Namworld, what does that paragraph say
05:23 Namworld No liquidation occured. So assets remain with DMC and still pay out dividends. Hundreds of ASICMINER left.
05:23 ThickAsThieves it says you will liquidate assets and payout the profit
05:24 Diablo-D3 Namworld: notice the line about dividends
05:24 Diablo-D3 1) 50% of all mining revenue will be distributed to shareholders in the form of dividends (henceforth referred to as "dividends"). These dividends will be paid monthly, split evenly among all shares regardless of class or issuing date.
05:24 Diablo-D3 There has been no mining revenue... ever.
05:24 Diablo-D3 In the history of DMC.
05:25 Namworld Well then, DMC's assets are stuck in DMC, idling. You still can't repurpose them for DMC 2.0
05:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3947 @ 0.00083997 = 3.3154 BTC [+] {3}
05:25 Diablo-D3 Namworld: I can repurpose them for DMC to remain in DMC.
05:25 Namworld Then you can't void DMC 1.0 holders
05:25 Diablo-D3 Nothing in the contract prohibits that.
05:26 Namworld Nothing in the contract allows you to either.
05:26 biteesak this does not seem very honest..
05:26 Namworld Thus you cannot void 1.0 holders arbitrarily.
05:26 Diablo-D3 bitesak: what the entire community has done isnt very honest
05:27 biteesak so the opportunity to stick out is rather big
05:27 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4550 @ 0.00084191 = 3.8307 BTC [+] {3}
05:28 Diablo-D3 Namworld: Fine, hows this.
05:28 Diablo-D3 DMC is now closed. The expenses incurred from the operation and liquidation of the company is the current value of all assets.
05:29 Diablo-D3 I shall now pay out the final sum total of BTC: 0.
05:29 Diablo-D3 It has now been paid.
05:30 Namworld So, could you please tell me what those expenses are? Because I know there's ASICMINERs left and liquidating those on the market would cost almost nothing.
05:30 Diablo-D3 Namworld: payment to the CEO for doing his job.
05:30 Diablo-D3 Which makes me the lowest paid CEO in the history of business.
05:31 biteesak is that the best you can do ?
05:31 Namworld I'd have to say, quite possibly the worst move one could do if they want to start a proper business requiring the funding you're seeking.
05:32 Diablo-D3 Namworld: Im not even sure if Im going to.
05:32 Diablo-D3 Namworld: making a profit means basically 60% of the money goes to the government
05:32 Diablo-D3 unless you're just so large you can get away without paying taxes
05:32 Diablo-D3 which I doubt any company in this industry will ever become
05:33 Diablo-D3 Namworld: so whats the point of building a company if the rich can just steal it all anyhow
05:33 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2628 @ 0.00083919 = 2.2054 BTC [-]
05:34 Diablo-D3 Namworld: I just don't see the point of the startup game anymore.
05:34 Diablo-D3 The government changes the rules to suit themselves, everyone is out to cheat steal and lie, and a tiny fraction of a percent ever win.
05:34 biteesak so might as well do the same whenever possible
05:35 Diablo-D3 Namworld: I'm sorry DMC did not succeed, but thats the way it is.
05:36 Namworld So your answer is to act like the government but against government regulation to open DMC 2.0 as per government regulation??
05:36 Namworld That's a bit fucked up.
05:36 Diablo-D3 Namworld: like I said, DMC 2.0 may not happen.
05:36 Diablo-D3 This whole experience has left a bad taste in my mouth.
05:37 Namworld And if DMC 2.0 does not happen, why not close down by liquidating what's left and doing a forced buyback as per contract?
05:37 dub its the libertarian dream
05:37 dub fuck everyone because taxes
05:37 Namworld I know it's been bad. But I haven't taken any salary either for fixing the aftermath as best as I could.
05:38 Diablo-D3 Namworld: Because I have decided, thanks to you, that this is the cost of DMC in the end.
05:38 Diablo-D3 It doesn't pay to be the nice guy always trying to do the right thing.
05:39 Namworld I'm richer now and trusted. I've made back my losses with amazingrando because people seem to appreciate working with me.
05:39 Namworld I'd say it pays to be nice.
05:39 Diablo-D3 So then pay DMC the 106 BTC you owe through BTC-MINING.
05:40 Namworld I can't afford to pay over 1500 BTC.
05:41 Diablo-D3 Then thats the way it is.
05:42 Namworld The difference being, in this case, you're admitting to yourself taking the remaining assets.
05:42 Namworld Either keeping for yourself as salary or for DMC 2.0 or whatever.
05:46 Namworld Do as you please, but that's low, compensating yourself like that when shit happen and leaving the others. I hope remaining holders aren't too damaged by that.
05:47 Namworld If you're fed up and just want to take it, no need to feed bullshit arguments that don't hold any credibility.
05:47 Diablo-D3 whats the current value of an AM share anyhow?
05:47 Namworld 1 BTC
05:48 Namworld At 1000 AM and 11 DMC to 1 AM trade, there should be a bit over 300 AM or 300 BTC left.
05:48 Namworld With over 3000 DMC left outstanding
05:49 dexX7 Namworld: it's 430 AM according to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77469.msg3289371#msg3289371
05:49 Namworld Wow, more than I thought.
05:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1622 @ 0.00083919 = 1.3612 BTC [-]
05:50 Namworld It's no effort auctioning/selling the remaining assets to highest bidder and paying out liquidation to current shareholders for a closing as per contract.
05:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5225 @ 0.00084096 = 4.394 BTC [+] {2}
05:56 Diablo-D3 Namworld: there, I edited the final notice as per your requests.
05:57 Namworld Suit yourself
05:57 Diablo-D3 Namworld: how many shares of DMC do you have left?
05:58 Namworld Not sure.
05:58 Diablo-D3 go find out.
05:58 Namworld 456
05:58 Namworld Yes, that's what I was checking.
05:59 Diablo-D3 go find out if you can still transfer shares to me while the asset is locked
06:00 Namworld I haven't had a single holder before today which claimed that I owed them something, that made accusations or complained at all.
06:00 Diablo-D3 Ill trade you them for 42 AM.
06:01 Namworld Hmm, let me do a counter proposal...
06:01 Namworld I'll transfer them to you, nothing asked in return, on the condition you liquidate and payout the remaining holders.
06:01 Namworld I want to see DMC's assets be properly liquidated and paid out.
06:02 Diablo-D3 Namworld: nope, Ill do it for 11:1 AM.
06:02 Diablo-D3 which Im still offering to shareholders.
06:02 Namworld You're still offering it? You said all shares were void if I'm not mistaken.
06:04 Diablo-D3 did you not read the edit?
06:04 Namworld Ah, I see the corrections. Assets will not be repurposed for DMC 2.0 hmm
06:04 dexX7 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77469.msg3289371#msg3289371 was edited to "As per the shareholder contract, DMC is now closing and liquidating."
06:04 ozbot Diablo Mining Company
06:05 Namworld Yes, that's satisfactory.
06:05 Diablo-D3 Namworld: but whats left of DMC _will_ resolve its debt to me.
06:06 Namworld BTCMC/unclaimed AM trade-ins?
06:06 Diablo-D3 yes, unless someone offers something worthwhile for the BTCMC
06:07 Namworld I'd quite prefer a proper liquidation.
06:07 Diablo-D3 I seriously doubt anyone will offer anything for BTCMC that even comes close to what is owed or what yochdog claims is left
06:07 Namworld I suppose only AM holds any actual value right now.
06:08 Namworld Very well.
06:08 Diablo-D3 I think I calculated that if yochdog cant find a buyer for the hardware, its basically worth about 1.5BTC
06:08 Diablo-D3 maybe 2 or 3 if he does
06:08 Namworld You should probably mention the 11:1 trading prominently however.
06:11 Diablo-D3 Namworld: cant mention it any more prominently than it is
06:13 Namworld Shares transfered.
06:13 Namworld Well it is more prominent now indeed.
06:13 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4750 @ 0.00084316 = 4.005 BTC [+] {2}
06:15 Diablo-D3 there, I think thats the final edit.
06:16 Diablo-D3 Namworld: whats the email you gave to friedcat/
06:16 Namworld I have none I think. Well I auctioned my ASICMINERs long ago...
06:16 Namworld Not sure if he still has it.
06:17 Namworld Let me PM the email to you anyway.
06:17 Diablo-D3 k
06:21 Namworld ok, well I'm off for now. This has dragged on quite late. Good night.
06:21 Diablo-D3 Namworld: I sent the PM to friedcat
06:22 Namworld Thank you.
06:22 dexX7 Diablo-D3: considering you wanted to void all shares, i must say it's a honorable move to change your mind and offer the 1:11 exchange
06:23 ThickAsThieves good on him, but to be fair that is the way it was before
06:23 dexX7 that's a different topic
06:23 Diablo-D3 I have no clue how long I can offer it though
06:23 Diablo-D3 At the very most, its less than 30 days (nov 1st)
06:24 Diablo-D3 but bitfunder could just glbse tommorow
06:24 Namworld Well if they keep to their word, only purchasing more assets will be halted for US residents.
06:24 ThickAsThieves that already is the case
06:25 Diablo-D3 Namworld: prepare for the worst.
06:25 ThickAsThieves it's the selling that goes dark on the 1st
06:25 Namworld Withdrawing/redeeming shares/etc will be accomodated with as much as possibe.
06:25 Namworld Hopefully it works long enough for things to close down as best as possible.
06:25 Diablo-D3 btw, Im wondering what the biggest remaining shareholders will do
06:25 Diablo-D3 one guy has 550, one guy has 1774
06:26 Diablo-D3 those two could put a serious dent in the remaining shares
06:27 dub they could put a serious dent in the evolutionary process if allowed to breed too
06:27 Namworld They can claim 211 AM
06:27 Diablo-D3 Namworld: you missed the point
06:27 Namworld Ah, you mean in outstanding shares
06:28 Diablo-D3 ;;calc 3947 - 1774 - 550 - 456
06:28 gribble 1167
06:28 Diablo-D3 that seems wrong
06:28 Diablo-D3 there isn't enough left
06:29 Diablo-D3 ;;calc 1167 - 144 - 100 - 91
06:29 gribble 832
06:29 Diablo-D3 yeah, theres no way theres 832 left
06:29 Diablo-D3 ;;calc 1167 - 144 - 100 - 91 - 107
06:29 gribble 725
06:29 Diablo-D3 yeah no way
06:30 jurov http://www.forexminute.com/bitcoin/inside-bitcoins-conference-to-be-held-in-las-vegas-jered-kenna-will-be-keynote-speaker-18934
06:30 ozbot Inside Bitcoins Conference to Be Held in Las Vegas, Jered Kenna Will be Keynote Speaker | Forex Minu
06:30 Diablo-D3 Namworld: Im going to laugh if I find out bitfunder fucked up the count
06:30 jurov "With 20mission, Jered Kenna aims to foster a collaborative living environment for startup executives, developers, designers and artists." sooo gay
06:31 ThickAsThieves "He is one of the most eloquent speakers in the Bitcoin economy."
06:31 Diablo-D3 ;;calc 3947 - 456
06:31 gribble 3491
06:32 Diablo-D3 ;;calc 430 - 32
06:32 gribble 398
06:32 Diablo-D3 ;;calc 430 - 42
06:32 gribble 388
06:33 dexX7 ;;calc 430 - 3947 / 11
06:33 gribble 71.1818181818
06:34 dub who ever heard of living with the people you work with anyway
06:34 Diablo-D3 dub: yeah, thats like
06:34 dub its an entirely retarded prospect
06:34 Diablo-D3 marrying your cofounder
06:34 dub unless you market is homeless fucktards like taaki
06:35 Diablo-D3 YO DAWG, I HEARD YOU LIKE WOMEN AND COFOUNDERS, SO I MADE YOUR COFOUNDER A WOMAN, SO YOU CAN FUCK HER WHILE YOU GIVE HER THE SHAFT
06:35 mod6 haha
06:44 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.00084415 = 3.461 BTC [+] {3}
~ 30 minutes ~
07:15 BingoBoingo So, Buttfunder is dead before I could even make money on a Bitbet for that shit.
07:15 Diablo-D3 basically
07:16 Namworld Correction, until further notice, it only stops servicing US customers and requires ID.
07:16 Namworld I guess that's synonymous to dead tho
07:17 Diablo-D3 yup
07:18 Namworld Well I've had enough of all this. Off to sleep. Will probably close my PTs and the rest and only leave my loan active, perhaps.
07:19 Namworld I prefer to manage only something on which I have a clear 100% responsibility on no matter what.
07:19 Namworld Easier and straightforward
07:19 Namworld Good night.
07:21 BingoBoingo Eh, It's taken me too long being on IRC to find the right Buttfunder joke. I'm kind of enjoying the Irony that 'Muricans that despise MPEx and MP that despises 'Muricans seem like they are going to have to get along some way. Probably in a way that involves 'Muricans learning options because MPEx ain't getting LabCoin, but still.
07:21 BingoBoingo It is Fall 2012 all over again.
07:21 Diablo-D3 yup
07:21 Diablo-D3 happens about every year
07:23 BingoBoingo Diablo-D3: I wouldn't be surprised if it accelerates in the next year where even moar dispoasable exchanges pop up.
07:29 BingoBoingo It seems at this rate Meni Rosenfield will be able to raise 5KbTC capital on UsagiFunder before Thanksgiving.
07:33 mircea_popescu whee
07:34 mircea_popescu in other news : today we will have the S.NSA first product announcement.
07:34 bitesak great
07:36 KRS- Meni makes a lovely Musaca.
07:39 mircea_popescu every pirate ship needs a good cook ?
~ 21 minutes ~
08:00 assbot [HAVELOCK] [XBOND] [PAID] 0.69348300 BTC to 1`386`966 shares, 50 satoshi per share
08:04 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Please I've been waiting on it. I have already bet on it. Only donation m blog received so far got rolled into the Yes of this: http://bitbet.us/bet/545/no-such-labs-higher-market-cap-than-s-mg/ because fuck invesitng or hedging. Let the betting begin,
08:04 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 1.11001 = 2.22 BTC [-]
08:05 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo lolwhat a concept.
08:06 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I don't have enough fingers to count how many bitbets I have been nearly all of both sides. I don't know what pankkake is smoking about yall abing slective.
08:06 mircea_popescu wait srsly ?! betting with yourself ?
08:07 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Yes, That is the beauty of mutual betting. Betting with myself until other people in the market correct the odds as they do so well.
08:08 mircea_popescu interesting. is it productive over all these many bets ? or even been keeping track ?
08:08 mircea_popescu i guess it wouldn't take that much to cover the 1% bitbet rakes.
08:10 BingoBoingo The latest example is here where I am all of the yes and a good portion of the no. I could lose on a no, but it would be covered by http://bitbet.us/bet/113/bitbet-will-we-worth-more-than-satoshi-dice/ winnings.
08:10 BingoBoingo By here I mean and forgot to link http://bitbet.us/bet/151/st-louis-cardinals-will-win-the-2013-world/
08:12 BingoBoingo Linking errors and mistypes are a peril, but for whom?
08:13 mircea_popescu for everyone involved
08:13 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo o right, you were doing sports picks on your blog i recall
08:14 mircea_popescu well, bitbet can certainly use more of that.
08:15 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Well, If the Cardinal win the World series... I can probably find some BitBets on Bowl Games.
08:16 BingoBoingo Then again I've also spoiled the line bets on forum advertised picks because I was too late. Also because fuck bookies.
08:23 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 37 @ 0.0094001 = 0.3478 BTC [-]
08:25 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: I did sports picks on the blog, but my method is strictly just eyeballing match ups before I have the opportunity to form a real opinion. I may be a shutty method, but it has served me well. Who knows what I could achieve if only I had a monkey and a dart board.
08:25 mircea_popescu lol
08:26 mircea_popescu go to the bookies in your town, get one to back you.
08:26 mircea_popescu maybe throw in a dartboard
08:28 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5450 @ 0.0008408 = 4.5824 BTC [-] {2}
08:29 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: LoL, I'd have to go to Vegas... This whole Illinois and/or Missouri being the most corrupt state in the union deal. They won't allow house edges lower than the sanctioned lotto offers. And so I plan to keep doing to line betting sites what it did to that Blockbet.net place which mysteriously disappeared sometime around the NCAA basketball tournament.
08:30 mircea_popescu heh.
08:32 BingoBoingo Pretty sure I didn't kill it with basketball though.
08:37 BingoBoingo If my ever so faulty memory serves me right they lifted lines from Vegas books for the World Baseball Classic. They completely forgot the part where the house vig was supposed to cover their trouble and not be a contributing factor to money they would bleed when the serious gamblers caught them in the ncaa tournament.
08:38 BingoBoingo I file the incident under reasons I don't buy mining equipment.
08:40 mircea_popescu lol
08:41 mircea_popescu so basically wait wait just a second here.
08:41 mircea_popescu are you saying the site FAKED its supposed bust, because it was betting its own book and lost ?
08:44 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Honestly that is how I think Blockbet.net went down.
08:45 mircea_popescu wow.
08:45 mircea_popescu add another reason to "why not use random line betting btc site sprouted after last week's rain"
08:45 mircea_popescu i did think the "bust" was a little suspicious.
08:46 BingoBoingo If I were into Bitcoin both earlier and stupider I can't say I wouldn't have tried something similar, but GPG contacts and all
08:50 BingoBoingo If dorks ever realized how much power they could get from simply having old, long GPG keys...
08:55 BingoBoingo I also ripped into solar wind mining again, because it is their fault http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2013/10/09/a-sample-gpg-signature/
08:57 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13400 @ 0.0008476 = 11.3578 BTC [+] {6}
09:01 bitesak http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2013/10/07/the-nsas-hugely-expensive-utah-data-center-has-major-electrical-problems-and-basically-isnt-working/
09:01 ozbot The NSA's Hugely Expensive Utah Data Center Has Major Electrical Problems And Basically Isn't Workin
09:03 BingoBoingo Who would have anticipated giant Faraday cages could also be giant antennas?
09:05 BingoBoingo Also apparently Google has been hiding their GPG wizardry this whole time: https://services.google.com/corporate/publickey.txt
09:08 kleeck .d
09:08 ozbot 189281249.28103 | Next Diff in 1517 blocks | Estimated Change: 17.4643% in 8d 16h 39m 31s
09:08 mircea_popescu bitesak lmao
09:09 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo that's not new by any means.
09:11 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Maybe not to you, but I've been wondering why the gmail address I dump all my ciphertext to isn't getting cipher text in my notifications from them.
09:11 mircea_popescu a well. dif story :)
09:12 mircea_popescu so basically the nsa has created the world's largest bug zapper
09:13 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Aren't they all. Except that pointless and whitless one?
09:13 mircea_popescu and is using it on its own techs
09:13 mircea_popescu bugs that they are.
09:13 mircea_popescu superb.
09:13 jurov if nsa repurposed the DC to bitcoin mining, no wonder
09:13 BingoBoingo I'm just wondering how much data their zapper lst that they actually wanted.
09:15 BingoBoingo Like Tor I imagine it wasn't all of it, but enough of it to clear two or three people.
09:17 BingoBoingo I've seen yesterday's posts about random wanabee deaers getting busted. I wanted to make a post about retain a fucking lawyer now. Everystory I read about actual Silk Road people involve to much stupid though.
09:18 nubbins` why retain a lawyer when you can just sell a bunch of coke instead?
09:19 BingoBoingo nubbins`: Case you can get a lawyer to just make bail for cheap. Then if you get busted have the good one keep you out of jail.
09:19 nubbins` i was joking :(
09:20 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 1.11001 = 2.22 BTC [-]
09:20 nubbins` i know a guy who got busted a couple of years ago
09:20 BingoBoingo nubbins`: This is IRC everyone is joking, or incredibly serious.
09:20 nubbins` he didn't retain a lawyer
09:20 nubbins` and now he's not allowed to drink, do drugs, or leave his house
09:21 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 10 @ 0.011 = 0.11 BTC [+]
09:21 BingoBoingo nubbins`: Fuck him them. My drive through law trick must be a miracle man then (and this is the dude I didn't trust beyond making my bail).
09:24 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.11001 BTC [-]
09:24 BingoBoingo Have any of yall been on TradeFortress's network CoinChat, because I am running out of ways to call RealSolid and scammy fuck and Mcxnow something to avoid at all costs.
09:25 bitesak somehow I feel the next announcement on s.NSA will inspire more than the bug zapper NSA story
09:26 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo http://trilema.com/2012/why-its-not-actually-in-your-best-interest-to-allow-a-hired-third-party-to-speak-for-you-in-criminal-proceedings/
09:26 mircea_popescu best learn teh law.
09:27 bitesak mircea_popescu, have you stopped using twitter for mpex feed ? seems last trade was in june
09:27 bitesak https://twitter.com/MPEx1
09:27 BingoBoingo thank you mircea_popescu
09:27 ozbot MPEx (MPEx1) on Twitter
09:28 BingoBoingo bitesak: all of the payment addresses to yes on this bet http://bitbet.us/bet/545/no-such-labs-higher-market-cap-than-s-mg/ actually go to me.
09:29 mod6 bitesak: i've got a twit feed going @bitotter
09:30 bitesak thanks
09:32 bitesak BingoBoingo, you mean in the sense you are taking care of the NO side and will reap the YES?
09:33 BingoBoingo bitesake: That is what I have set up now. I am th only yes on that bet, and I could win it simply in the week after IPO.
09:35 mircea_popescu bitesak twitter basically decided i'm spamming them
09:36 mircea_popescu i had been trying to get it "sorted out" but they're kind of unhelpful so... what can i do.
09:37 BingoBoingo bitesak: Let us not forget this gem I sextupled my money on http://bitbet.us/bet/113/bitbet-will-we-worth-more-than-satoshi-dice/ by having simply identified in December Erik was too unreliable to spearhead a public asset backed by a GPG signed contract. For every other bet it is just the same sort of eyeballin'
09:40 bitesak how does that compare to buying shares in S.Bitbet and S.NSA rather than the bitbet venue as the depth seems way bigger the S. way
09:40 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Aparently some other asshole has a twitter account in the name BingoBoingo, so I'll have to settle for BingoBlog or something when I get to it.
09:41 mircea_popescu it's not such a great name anyway
09:41 mircea_popescu (contrary to what you may think)
09:41 BingoBoingo bitesak: No particular way other than a gambler. If people want to hedge fuck them because I'm gambling this shit.
09:42 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Nothing apparently is a good enough name to break some brain wallets.
09:43 mircea_popescu :p
09:47 mircea_popescu http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/166580-researchers-find-new-ultra-low-level-method-of-hacking-cpus-and-theres-no-way-to-detect-it
09:47 ozbot Researchers find new, ultra-low-level method of hacking CPUs – and there’s no way to detect it |
09:47 mircea_popescu asciilifeform for your lolz ^
09:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00084947 = 2.1237 BTC [+]
09:51 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: It apparently seems that Tor exits have to be honeypots. I've been running on for half of a week and been getting nothing but boring througn MITM attacks. No matter what bandwidth I offer Tor exits, the tor seems to adapt n a way that either recognizes me attacking its exits or suggests it is sucking some NSA dick.
09:54 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 72 @ 0.011 = 0.792 BTC [+] {2}
09:54 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.1010375 BTC [-]
09:55 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 6 @ 0.1005001 = 0.603 BTC [-]
09:58 assbot [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 24 @ 0.007 = 0.168 BTC [+]
09:58 BingoBoingo Maybe the next few days will offer something else, but so far I'm finding little more than Iranians who would probably rather the US get their story if only it wasn't so boring.
10:00 kleeck .d
10:00 ozbot 189281249.28103 | Next Diff in 1513 blocks | Estimated Change: 17.2608% in 8d 16h 27m 18s
10:09 BingoBoingo I mean how wide does the "tor foundation" advertise their exit bandwidth being? There is not way I get all of the fringe cases exiting and nothing else if this shit ain't random. I'm probably burning some logs and just advertising Tor as more compromised than imagined.
10:18 mircea_popescu ;;later tell bingoboingo maybe do a full study of the matter and publish the results.
10:18 gribble The operation succeeded.
10:21 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 37 @ 0.011 = 0.407 BTC [-]
10:31 nubbins` sweet! doing a zine workshop next tuesday
~ 16 minutes ~
10:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2000 @ 0.0008474 = 1.6948 BTC [-]
10:48 assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.36101001 BTC [-]
~ 17 minutes ~
11:05 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.2759999 BTC [+]
11:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2300 @ 0.000849 = 1.9527 BTC [+]
11:14 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 1.2759999 = 5.104 BTC [+]
~ 16 minutes ~
11:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2612 @ 0.00084947 = 2.2188 BTC [+]
11:41 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 51 @ 0.01100001 = 0.561 BTC [-]
11:42 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 26 @ 0.011 = 0.286 BTC [-]
11:44 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 16 @ 0.01000003 = 0.16 BTC [-]
11:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15953 @ 0.00085049 = 13.5679 BTC [+] {5}
12:00 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3325 @ 0.000183 = 0.6085 BTC [-]
12:13 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 10694 @ 0.000183 = 1.957 BTC [-]
12:16 bitesak http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131008/18300324805/london-police-order-registrars-to-shut-down-bunch-websites-without-any-legal-basis-threaten-registrars-if-they-dont-comply.shtml
12:16 ozbot London Police Order Registrars To Shut Down A Bunch Of Websites Without Any Legal Basis; Threaten Re
12:18 nubbins` wow
12:21 bitesak conspiracy to defraud seems like an extremely large concept
12:22 nubbins` bitcoin is a pretty large concept
12:23 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 1.275999 = 7.656 BTC [-]
12:25 bitesak easydns claims to be a NSA-Free Zone :) and actually seems to be standing up to this farce
12:30 bitesak on the bright side, all this inspires the likes of MP & co to develop S.NSA products
12:34 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.12 BTC [-]
12:35 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 13 @ 1.10230769 = 14.33 BTC [-] {2}
12:40 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 1.085 = 5.425 BTC [-]
12:44 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 1.060001 = 4.24 BTC [-]
12:50 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 29 @ 0.01118 = 0.3242 BTC [-]
12:54 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 15 @ 0.01000268 = 0.15 BTC [-] {2}
12:57 nubbins` joke's on you if S.NSA products have backdoors
13:04 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.01 = 0.4 BTC [-] {3}
13:14 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.01000001 = 0.2 BTC [+]
13:20 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.01 = 0.2 BTC [-] {2}
13:28 _mjoiii Guys a plea for help...
13:28 _mjoiii Anyone know of a method for tracking the transfers to Havelock?
13:29 topace tracking tranfers ?
13:29 _mjoiii The lack of liquidity there is killing me and I don't see any improvement after recent news.
13:29 _mjoiii Won't us traders be transferring shares there?
13:29 topace quite possibly
13:30 _mjoiii Not 1:1 tacking but just an indication of the progress
13:30 topace to initiate share transfer, follow the instructions for the specific assets
13:30 topace we arent doing any transfers automatically
13:31 _mjoiii No no not me, I've been w Havelock all along and happy to have a Canadian option. Just can't buy or sell much without affecting prices.
13:32 _mjoiii So really looking forward to having more company there.
13:33 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 637 @ 0.00085195 = 0.5427 BTC [+]
13:36 nubbins` _mjoiii: are you trying to buy or sell? ;)
13:38 _mjoiii Both generally, today thinking of selling some neobee.
13:39 _mjoiii Take look at that book. Sell 2t and it drops to 0.001
13:39 _mjoiii Sorry, 25
13:40 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.01 = 0.4 BTC [-] {2}
13:40 nubbins` yeah, volume is the problem with anything btc-related
13:41 nubbins` only two funds have a 7-day volume > 100 btc
13:42 nubbins` i suppose people coming over from bitfunder & btctctctctctc will change that somewhat
13:43 _mjoiii That is my hope too.
13:44 ThickAsThieves Don't expect too much change
13:44 ThickAsThieves the factbeing that people are moving assets
13:44 _mjoiii Why not?
13:44 ThickAsThieves not coins
13:44 ThickAsThieves this is a turtle market
13:44 kakobrekla "buttfunder & btctctctctctc" - sounds like some strip joint
13:45 nubbins` i always get confused as to what letter it ends on
13:45 nubbins` their fault for putting half the name in the tld
13:46 kakobrekla yeah its extra confusing
13:46 ThickAsThieves so now that we caught up on processing all the migration data, we encountered a technical limitation with Bitfunder and we will have to require ALL TAT.ASICMINER migrators from BTCT to resubmit their info using a Havelock account
13:46 nubbins` oof
13:46 kakobrekla will you still be doing passthroughs?
13:47 ThickAsThieves we haven't made any hard decisions in that regard
13:47 ThickAsThieves we have a decision tree we have to climb through
13:48 ThickAsThieves which requires meetings with various parties about various nuances
13:48 ThickAsThieves there's no simple way to proceed
13:48 kakobrekla i guess that comes with diligence
13:48 ThickAsThieves in the meantime the immediate issues are the shareholders in limbo, and dividends
13:49 ThickAsThieves i have no problem saying that Bitfunder has not made this easy
13:49 ThickAsThieves whereas Havelock has
13:50 kakobrekla Want to play bitcoin? Step 1: Move out of US. Step 2: Done.
13:50 ThickAsThieves it's not even that simple
13:50 ThickAsThieves but that's within the decision tree
13:50 topace :)
13:51 ThickAsThieves we've been working hard behind the scenes to legitimize our role into a real bitcoin investment bank
13:51 ThickAsThieves we have a plan we've been executing
13:51 ThickAsThieves but it does sorta require exchanges to do the same
13:53 robitnik Does "we" include Neo?
13:53 robitnik Or LMB
13:55 Jere_Jones ThickAsThieves: "turtle market"? As in "turtles all the way down"?
13:55 ThickAsThieves we is me, my partner, our team, and our lawyers
13:56 ThickAsThieves turtle as in, hiding in its shell
13:56 ThickAsThieves i figure "bear" market isnt quite fitting
13:56 Jere_Jones Ah. Ok.
13:56 Jere_Jones Nope. Still don't get it.
13:57 ThickAsThieves what do turtles do when they are scared?
13:57 ThickAsThieves shrink into their shell
13:57 Jere_Jones Yes
13:57 ThickAsThieves dont dwell on it too much
13:57 ThickAsThieves ;)
13:57 Jere_Jones I think I get it now. Maybe. Back to work for me. :)
14:09 nospinzy you think people would invest in webproperties from flippa
14:11 kakobrekla in wha?
14:11 nospinzy anything
14:11 nospinzy anything that is a good price
14:11 nospinzy and has income
14:11 nospinzy let me find an example
14:12 _mjoiii Does that mean websites?
14:12 nospinzy yes
14:12 nospinzy a fund to buy websites
14:12 nospinzy active websites
14:12 nospinzy https://flippa.com/2978742-pr-3-affiliate-reviews-site-for-as-seen-on-tv-products-2k-month-profit
14:12 ozbot yourenotstupid.com - Website for Sale on Flippa: PR 3 Affiliate Reviews Site for As Seen On TV Produ
14:12 nospinzy like that for example
14:15 _mjoiii Is the idea to bundle profitable sites and sell units?
14:17 nospinzy no the idea is to run the sites
14:17 nospinzy and pay out a dividen
14:20 zoinky that site brings in 2k a month?
14:21 kakobrekla 2k page views [via bots]
14:21 kakobrekla :>
14:21 nospinzy dollars
14:22 nospinzy its an example
14:22 nospinzy i wouldnt invest in that
14:23 zoinky which would you invest in?
14:24 _mjoiii Would be interesting to see portfolio/projections.
14:25 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 138 @ 0.002 = 0.276 BTC [-]
14:25 ThickAsThieves so basically flippa is website templates pretending to be businesses
14:25 mike_c it is affiliate websites that have stopped being profitable for their owners.
14:25 _mjoiii Except those that are monetized and apparently profitable.
14:25 mike_c who are now trying to make one last buck off them.
14:26 zoinky pretty much
14:26 zoinky its buying toxic websites
14:27 _mjoiii Wondered about that in the past. If their sales pitch is correct, why are they selling?
14:28 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.00085206 = 6.9017 BTC [+] {2}
14:29 ThickAsThieves it's a tricky area, as i myself have been in a position before of having profitable things i no longer wanted
14:29 ThickAsThieves sometimes people just wanna move on
14:30 ThickAsThieves or make better money on other things
14:41 ThickAsThieves "Keith, the very first guy Sean's Outpost fed with Bitcoin Died last night"
14:41 ThickAsThieves that's some headline
14:44 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 370 @ 0.001161 = 0.4296 BTC [+] {2}
14:44 pankkake conclusion: don't eat Bitcoins
14:45 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 544 @ 0.00085209 = 0.4635 BTC [+]
14:45 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 98 @ 0.00199 = 0.195 BTC [-]
14:49 ThickAsThieves "Ulbricht's public defender said Ulbricht would not protest his detention as he awaits his transfer to New York. He retains the right to pursue bail after he arrives in New York."
14:49 ThickAsThieves public defender?
14:49 ThickAsThieves the thot plickens
14:50 kleeck Jeeze man.
14:50 kleeck Crack that wallet and get some representation.
14:51 pankkake if impossible he could probably easily raise funds for his defense. weird
15:04 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2950 @ 0.0008511 = 2.5107 BTC [-]
15:07 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 61 @ 0.010002 = 0.6101 BTC [-]
15:14 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.0589 BTC [-]
15:29 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00084995 = 3.2298 BTC [-] {3}
15:34 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 1.01575714 = 7.1103 BTC [-] {4}
15:34 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00085209 = 2.9823 BTC [+] {2}
15:35 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.95775 = 3.831 BTC [-] {2}
15:47 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 16 @ 0.0100021 = 0.16 BTC [+]
15:51 assbot [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 98 @ 0.00207 = 0.2029 BTC [+]
15:53 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.951 BTC [-]
16:00 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] [PAID] 32.48744832 BTC to 6`684 shares, 486048 satoshi per share
16:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 487 @ 0.0008521 = 0.415 BTC [+]
16:13 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.92476999 = 9.2477 BTC [-] {6}
16:15 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 10 @ 0.01117 = 0.1117 BTC [+]
16:23 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 900 @ 0.0008521 = 0.7669 BTC [+]
~ 26 minutes ~
16:50 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 1004 @ 0.00118994 = 1.1947 BTC [+] {5}
17:02 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 53 @ 0.0100021 = 0.5301 BTC [-]
17:04 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 54 @ 0.09661668 = 5.2173 BTC [-] {4}
17:05 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 695 @ 0.00963942 = 6.6994 BTC [-] {18}
17:14 kakobrekla Meni Rosenfeld. has a new thing
17:14 kakobrekla http://bitblu.com/
17:14 ozbot Bitblu - crypto investment management
17:14 kakobrekla and ripple guy
17:15 kakobrekla from https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=308581.0
17:18 pankkake wait they have a job offer for a third "founder and c?o" lol
17:18 ThickAsThieves hrm
17:19 mircea_popescu lol good one
17:20 ThickAsThieves i bet the salary = you get to be a founder!
17:20 mircea_popescu is that the ceo salary ?
17:21 mircea_popescu sometimes it looks like every aluminum siding, vacuum & bible and car salesman is now doing bitcoin.
17:22 ThickAsThieves you'll get a kick out of the headshots for the vegas conference
17:23 ThickAsThieves http://www.mediabistro.com/insidebitcoins/speakers.asp
17:23 mircea_popescu if they get shot in the head they won't be able to have open casket funerals.
17:25 kakobrekla The vision of bitcoin is going to be set at conferences like this.
17:25 kakobrekla —Alan Safahi of ZipZap tells The Wall Street Journal.
17:26 mircea_popescu lmao. jerkoffs will jerkoff.
17:26 mircea_popescu also, zipzap = ziggap or zipzap = clueless fuckwits who have no idea history exists ?
17:26 Scrat circlederp
17:27 mircea_popescu Scrat dude, the "vision". the vision matters! herpes!
17:27 jborkl "More bad luck! My power supply just died! I highly recommend not buying this power supply! http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817152044
17:27 jborkl Off to the store to hopefully find one that isn't an arm and a leg on such short notice."
17:27 jborkl KNC Supernova
17:27 mircea_popescu supernova. nice name.
17:27 kakobrekla lool
17:27 jborkl Ty ty
17:27 kakobrekla zipzap is this it seems http://www.zipzapinc.com/
17:28 kakobrekla dunno how is it related to btc
17:28 mircea_popescu so here it is :
17:28 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2013/snsa-first-product-the-cardano/
17:28 ozbot S.NSA first product - The Cardano pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
17:29 mircea_popescu also, mpex deposits flushed if anyone was waiting.
17:30 jcpham if only my internets worked
17:30 jcpham i could read trilema
17:31 mircea_popescu well, get a government that's not shutdown
17:31 mircea_popescu then maybe your internets'd work.
17:32 Kleeck_ yes, the government runs the internetz
17:33 mircea_popescu everything, outdoor monuments, the internets, rain...
17:33 Kleeck_ haha
17:33 mircea_popescu best & biggest government in teh whole world! real power rangers those people.
17:33 Kleeck_ the fuckin Ocean
17:34 Kleeck_ The USG is spending more money trying to prove that the "shutdown" is a big deal.
17:34 mircea_popescu pls to not suggest the govt doth not help and doth not matter,
17:34 mircea_popescu or it's the booby hatch for you.
17:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4258 @ 0.00084941 = 3.6168 BTC [-] {3}
17:35 Kleeck_ I wasn't suggesting that at all.
17:35 Kleeck_ But the booby hatch sounds nice.
17:35 mircea_popescu that's because you don't know what a boobie is.
17:35 Kleeck_ I... I thought I did...
17:36 mike_c what's the target cost for the cardano?
17:36 mircea_popescu it's a... bird.
17:36 mircea_popescu mike_c tba :)
17:36 Kleeck_ Yes, and a breast.
17:36 Kleeck_ Of, possibly, a female.
17:36 kakobrekla i miss the option of forcing my own key innit
17:37 mircea_popescu kakobrekla yup
17:38 mircea_popescu the 0 1 8 problem. if you can so can someone else. no good.
17:39 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1500 @ 0.00084933 = 1.274 BTC [-]
17:39 kakobrekla 0 1 8?
17:40 mircea_popescu ;;google zero one infinity
17:40 gribble Zero one infinity rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_one_infinity_rule>; Zero One Infinity Rule: <http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ZeroOneInfinityRule>; Zero-One-Infinity Rule - Catb.org: <http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/Z/Zero-One-Infinity-Rule.html>
17:42 kakobrekla id live with the fact someone can replace it
17:42 kakobrekla but not read it
17:43 mircea_popescu why's your key so great you want to keep it anyway ? i bet you it wasn't gen'd on hardware rngs for instance.
17:45 kakobrekla its not that i want to keep it
17:45 kakobrekla i just want to define it
17:45 mircea_popescu but whay ?
17:45 kakobrekla so i can keep it!
17:46 jborkl he meant defile it
17:46 pankkake 0 1 ∞
17:46 mircea_popescu you mean keep it as in backup it ?
17:46 Namworld So he can keep using it/store it/transfer it to a replacement device
17:46 Namworld Assuming he got an offline backup
17:46 mircea_popescu one problem i see with this directly is that people will keep insecure copies and then go "o noes someone hacked my cardano and stole my key!11"
17:46 Namworld And keep the Cardano while on the move
17:47 mircea_popescu i think the better solution is to use a master and sign a cardano for the move.
17:47 kakobrekla my copy is on paper and on a safe place
17:47 mircea_popescu sorta use the cardano as a subbie in that context.
17:47 kakobrekla and i want to keep that backup
17:47 Namworld What if the master cardano breaks?
17:47 mircea_popescu kakobrekla well i didn't mean you. i meant people!
17:47 Namworld You're kind of screwed
17:47 mircea_popescu Namworld master doesn't have to be a cardano necessarily.
17:47 Namworld True
17:48 mircea_popescu it can be, sure, but if you don't trust it you can just use it as a sub to your main key which you keep traditionally.
17:48 Namworld Well I suppose that could work
17:48 Namworld Definitly
17:48 kakobrekla yet you cant use it for mpex if you dont have main key
17:48 kakobrekla except if you reg a new key
17:48 mircea_popescu you can as long as you reg it there.
17:49 kakobrekla which is 'disposable'
17:49 kakobrekla which sux
17:49 mircea_popescu hm ?
17:49 kakobrekla no way to have backup to mpex acc then
17:49 Namworld If the cardano breaks, you're out of shares and need to pay for a new account.
17:49 kakobrekla if the device breaks
17:49 Namworld No backups
17:51 mircea_popescu well yes, using a device of this type for that purpose seems like you're asking for trouble.
17:51 mike_c the cardano should backup the private key to the cloud.
17:51 mike_c (kidding)
17:51 kakobrekla lol
17:51 mircea_popescu sorta like carrying cats in your pant pocket
17:52 mircea_popescu anyway, we'll get a better idea as to how reliable the things are after they've been in the wild a year or two. atm all i can say is they should be pretty reliable.
17:52 Vexual prp?
17:53 kakobrekla yeah its a serious device for serious security but its so serious you cant have backups and so its not usable for serious stuff.
17:53 kakobrekla :p
17:53 mircea_popescu it's so secret you can't have backups.
17:54 mircea_popescu this is a frontline itam. you go into enemy territory with it.
17:54 mike_c still.. a straight up better replacement for securID?
17:54 mircea_popescu mike_c i think so.
17:54 mircea_popescu also much better scp than scp.
17:54 mircea_popescu also much better 2fa.
17:54 Vexual i like the faraday cage bit
17:55 mircea_popescu in principle you could design your garage door/house door to take a usb stick
17:55 mircea_popescu and just open them with a purpose cardano.
17:55 Vexual a thin lead case perhaps, so one can be sure it's in ones pocket
17:55 mircea_popescu whiuch, even if someome smacks you over the head, can't be cloned
17:55 mircea_popescu because no backup
17:56 kakobrekla so they just terminate you on spot
17:56 kakobrekla without giving you a chance!
17:56 kakobrekla pft!
17:56 mircea_popescu carry a bigger stick.
17:56 mircea_popescu Cardano on a stick!
17:57 Vexual my solar storm has begun
17:57 mike_c another question you won't answer yet (even though potential investors would love to know), target release date?
17:57 mike_c 2013? 14? 15?
17:57 mike_c well, not 13.
17:58 mircea_popescu mike_c should be here before xmas, so you can all make nice gifts to peopkle.
17:58 mike_c no way
17:58 mike_c wow
17:58 mircea_popescu yup/
17:59 Vexual how much?
17:59 mike_c he's not saying yet
18:00 bitesak Good evening ! will these devices be assembled in Romania?
18:00 mircea_popescu bitesak they shall be assembled at a secret & undisclosed set of locartions
18:00 Vexual made in notchina
18:00 mircea_popescu for teh obvious reasons.
18:01 jborkl http://175btc.com/
18:01 mircea_popescu Vexual nah, it's not oursourced.
18:01 mircea_popescu we're actually making it.
18:01 Vexual wise
18:01 jborkl mircea - you in the pool with those guys
18:01 mircea_popescu jborkl umm i can't read that stuff, what's it say ?
18:02 jborkl I am just looking at the picture'
18:02 mircea_popescu lol.
18:02 mircea_popescu yeah. im the duck.
18:04 jborkl I wonder why it is 3 white dudes and one mexican dude mining at a chinese pool?
18:05 jborkl with martinis
18:05 jborkl and a rubber ducky
18:05 Vexual not a mexican, just a rich dude with a tan
18:06 jborkl that one has the least amount of btc
18:06 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 12 @ 0.0088 = 0.1056 BTC [-]
18:07 Vexual so it seems
18:08 mircea_popescu lmao jborkl
18:09 mircea_popescu the mexican is there to bean flavour the sausage soup they're making.
18:09 jborkl They are all staring at each other and appear to be wearing lipstick :/
18:10 jborkl ok, who p2pd in the pool
18:10 pankkake at least it wasn't a whale taking a dump
18:17 bitesak would one be able to order and pay via fiat or is this strictly through bitcoin ?
18:18 Vexual lol
18:18 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 601 @ 0.00853068 = 5.1269 BTC [-] {10}
18:20 mircea_popescu bitesak bitcoin.
18:21 bitesak this will help make GPG more accessible and usable
18:22 mircea_popescu hopefully.
18:22 mircea_popescu i would think you know, if anyone that groks gpg gives one to their numerous gfs
18:22 mircea_popescu gpg could take over the world.
18:23 bitesak precisely, I was speaking about GPG with my gf and this would be a good christmas gift
18:25 mircea_popescu yeah cause very easy to use, very hard to fuck anything up.
18:25 bitesak :)
18:26 bitesak and thanks to Bitcoin_
18:26 jborkl http://forum.kncminer.com/album/4173-anyone-hashing-in-the-datacentre-yet
18:26 ozbot anyone-hashing-in-the-datacentre-yet
18:27 jborkl 2 jupiters for 350gh - bam tearing it up
18:29 mircea_popescu howlong have those been up ?
18:29 mircea_popescu curious if anyone ran a knc thing for more than a week or so by now
18:30 Vexual look for smoke signals
18:36 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.94 = 1.88 BTC [+]
18:38 FabianB mircea_popescu: so this is a simplified and bigger version of http://www.gnupg.org/howtos/card-howto/en/smartcard-howto-single.html ?
↖
18:39 mircea_popescu as best i can see it has little in common really.
18:40 mircea_popescu need not go any further than http://www.gnupg.org/howtos/card-howto/en/smartcard-howto-single.html#id2507296
18:40 mircea_popescu that thing's a joke, really.
18:41 Vexual will the girlfriend christmas package include lingerie, your email and a digital camera?
18:41 mircea_popescu Vexual we're working on something.
18:41 Vexual good, i like drama
18:43 FabianB mircea_popescu: maybe, but there seem to be 4096 versions too, and can handle kakobreklas wish for programmability (which of course decreases security)
18:43 mircea_popescu which kinda is the point.
18:44 asciilifeform anybody make one with a zapper?
18:44 mircea_popescu as best i can see the smartcard is a sort of fun and games project, let's play with smartcards. it doesn't have the critical features such as separation of key from slate.
18:44 mircea_popescu such as hardware rng, such as the zapper yes,
18:44 mircea_popescu it's a laundry list.
18:44 asciilifeform only people I know who include the zapper are, well, classic NSA. and they don't have a retail store.
18:45 mircea_popescu they do, but they only sell to iran
18:46 FabianB what's a zapper?
18:46 Vexual cyanide pill?
18:47 asciilifeform Vexual: if you were to introduce key importation, the zapper would have to come with cyanide.
18:47 asciilifeform whereas the answer to the inquisitor's 'where are the other copies' is correctly 'nowhere.'
18:48 Vexual what is zapper?
18:48 Vexual rom write?
18:48 bitesak the ability to destroy the key?
18:48 asciilifeform bitesak: we have a winner.
18:49 asciilifeform see 'How does it work ?' section 'D'.
18:50 bitesak good night !
18:53 pankkake well, I get the point of the device, but no backup is a dealbreaker for me
18:53 FabianB mircea_popescu: hmm.. but could gpg's smarcard api be used with cardano for signing/encryption instead of copying files?
18:53 jurov asciilifeform: you have not considered adding a display? it's the thing i like about trezor
18:53 jurov so that stuff to be signed can be verified right on the device
18:53 mircea_popescu FabianB perhaps. i'll have to look into that.
18:53 mircea_popescu jurov he tried, but couldn't get it past me.
18:54 pankkake also how do you communicate with it? you will need some software on the host?
18:54 jurov pankkake: it's in tfa
18:54 mircea_popescu pankkake nah, just normal stick
18:54 jurov mircea and why not?
18:54 Vexual add a discharge cap to smoke the usb hub just for fun
18:54 mircea_popescu jurov cause i'm that kind of asshole.
18:55 pankkake oh, you put your thing it its filesystem. clever
18:55 jurov didn't you violate contract with this executive meddling?
18:56 mircea_popescu no. my contract clearly states all employees must have unprotected sex with me.
18:56 mircea_popescu it's written in blood.
18:56 Vexual tansylvania style
18:56 pankkake I guess you can write software using it, of course, but it's clever
18:56 jurov poor stanislav...
18:57 mircea_popescu pankkake yeah the idea is, you can make a simple bash script to backup sites
18:57 mircea_popescu without relying on any outside protection.
18:57 mircea_popescu that's a good usecase, you know ?
18:57 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2750 @ 0.00085157 = 2.3418 BTC [+] {2}
18:57 pankkake how would it work, to encrypt a, say, 4 GB file?
18:58 mircea_popescu the encrypt is not handled by the cardano
18:58 mircea_popescu decription admittedly may take a minute at that size.
18:58 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3450 @ 0.00085214 = 2.9399 BTC [+] {2}
18:58 pankkake oh I'm dumb. you only need the pubkey for that
18:58 mircea_popescu :p
18:58 pankkake but yeah, the decryption then…
18:59 pankkake it would have to work in a "streaming" way
18:59 pankkake and I don't think you can do that with a filesystem
18:59 mircea_popescu why ?
18:59 mircea_popescu (why streaming)
18:59 pankkake does the cardana have gigabytes of storage?
18:59 pankkake cardano*
19:00 mircea_popescu C) Working slate ROM. This Flash ROM is removable, and may be inspected or replacedx by customers either before deploying the unit or at any point during.
19:00 mircea_popescu if it doesn't you can solder your own in.
19:00 mircea_popescu o wait. no need to solder, cause nsa made it replaceable.
19:01 pankkake ROM is Read Only Memory right? so I don't get it
19:01 mircea_popescu it's the same thing you find if you crack open any usb stick
19:02 pankkake I wouldn't call it ROM
19:02 mircea_popescu ><
19:02 mircea_popescu but then again you're french.
19:02 Vexual cdr is rom
19:02 pankkake well you're ROManian…
19:02 jurov mircea_popescu: really, what happens if i put on it 4GB file to decrypt? where will it put the decrypted file?
19:02 mircea_popescu jurov well hopefully it has a 8gb slate, it puts it right there
19:03 mircea_popescu pankkake no srsly, it's what they're called.
19:03 jurov especially if gpg compressed it while encrypting
19:03 pankkake I guess (looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory)
19:03 pankkake but you will confuse people. Flash memory could be clearer
19:03 mircea_popescu ram is volatile, rom is not volatile. it's what the words mean.
19:04 mircea_popescu if it confuses people it's because people gotta learn what the words mean.
19:04 pankkake anyway, I think an optional, streaming interface would be good
19:04 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 26 @ 0.0089858 = 0.2336 BTC [+] {3}
19:04 Vexual 3 letter? didn't read, too long
19:05 mircea_popescu pankkake maybe, but it'd be a diff product. this one separates itself from computer when touching the key,
19:05 mircea_popescu so as to rpotect from a variety of snooping techniques such as diff analysis from the host.
19:05 pankkake it doesn't have to be different - it would simply be another service provided by the device; and would probably provide less attack vectors than the filesystem
19:06 pankkake I mean, it can perfectly provide both
19:06 jurov oh, and have you considered safely erasing decrypted stuff once it is used?
19:06 mircea_popescu jurov the writing scheme is most-used rather than least-used
19:07 mircea_popescu consequently, you can trash the bits yourself by repeatedly copying/deleting a file to it.
19:07 pankkake jurov: there is actually a better way: use a one-time-encryption key for the filesystem. each time you reboot it, it is effectively erased
19:07 mircea_popescu pankkake it's never rebooted.
19:07 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 43 @ 0.008989 = 0.3865 BTC [+]
19:07 pankkake then unmount/remount
19:07 pankkake just forget the password
19:08 mircea_popescu something like that.
19:08 Vexual call it solid state, it sounds more expensive than rom or flash
19:08 jurov hmmmm... cuz safely erasing today's wear-levelled flash memory is non-trivial endeavor
19:08 pankkake it's less IO expensive than erasing the data (but more CPU expensive as anything written is encrypted)
19:08 jurov or you use something custom?
19:08 mircea_popescu jurov which is why this is optimised the opposite way. it will wear down the bits.
19:08 mircea_popescu yes, tis custom.
19:10 pankkake custom how?
19:10 mircea_popescu custom as in, it optimises for maximum wear.
19:10 mircea_popescu as opposed to how commercial flash drioves work (optimised for least wear)
19:10 pankkake doesn't really respond to the "is the decrypted data recoverable"
19:11 jurov ^this
19:11 mircea_popescu it does. if you are concerned about this point, copy a file repeatedly until the bits die, and so then it won't be.
19:11 mircea_popescu if you're not, you're not.
19:12 pankkake that sucks, and as stated, you have ways to make the concern go away *and* not wear the thing
19:12 mircea_popescu sometime life sucks.
19:13 pankkake your product is flawed, there are easy ways to fix it and yet… no?
19:14 mircea_popescu the product is fine. you have an issue being somehow convinced you can design stuff while simultaneously not having a clue what rom is.
19:14 mircea_popescu this issue is not of the world.
19:15 pankkake and I'm only getting evasing responses now. pathetic
19:15 mircea_popescu mkay.
19:15 Vexual associates seeking similar outcomes leaving earth
19:16 jurov Vexual: it's your brainwallet?
19:16 Vexual whoops wrong window
19:16 mircea_popescu if it is he has no btc ;/
19:16 Vexual ASSOLE
19:16 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1050 @ 0.00085235 = 0.895 BTC [+]
19:19 nubbins` heuristic outcomes
19:20 Vexual nice. i couldnt think of a suitable h
19:20 jurov pankkake, we'll see when the design will come out...
19:20 pankkake it's not hard to give clear answers
19:20 jurov if it really it will be required to run shred /dev/sdf; mkdosfs /dev/sdf every time
19:20 jurov then i guess bigger animals than us will start making fun of it
19:21 mircea_popescu jurov there's a lot of sales copy there but i dunno how it's supposed to work/be implemented.
19:21 mircea_popescu so i have no idea.
19:21 pankkake "I don't know" is a better answer than "it's fine" when it's not
19:22 mircea_popescu pankkake listen man, sometimes you will confront this situation where your imagination does not meet reality. people will tell you this, you will have to somehow digest it.
19:22 mircea_popescu there's no way around it, and petulence certainly ain't it.
19:23 jurov whose petulance?
19:23 mircea_popescu the definition of petulence is "i've not done anything to date but i will declare your item "flawed" because i am upset that you don't agree with what i think is the case".
19:24 pankkake again, if your product has no instand erase of its decrypted contents, it loses a great deal of attractivity - telling users they have to shred themselves is far away from the goal of having an easy secure device
19:24 mircea_popescu can you quote where this goal you imagine for me was stated ?
19:25 jurov <mircea_popescu> yeah cause very easy to use, very hard to fuck anything up.
19:25 mircea_popescu hardly a goal. but anyway, let's go throuigh the thing to make sure we're all on the same page, har har.
19:26 mircea_popescu if you have remote control of the connected pc, but no physical control of the stick,
19:26 pankkake and the worst thing is, it's not a big deal to fix. there is no reason to start going all like "it's not a problem"
19:26 mircea_popescu you can't read the deleted part of the work slate.
19:26 mircea_popescu if you have physical control of the stick, you can remove the working slate, but still can't read it, because it has a cypher.
19:26 pankkake you can read the raw filesystem of usb sticks
19:27 mircea_popescu if you are real good and manage to extracrt the cypher out of the chip and decode the working slate, you might be able to read whatever's not been destroyed on the drive.
19:27 mircea_popescu the definitive protection to this is a) don't lose physical control of the stick and b) destroy the slate.
19:27 mircea_popescu this is how the thing is intended to work. there aren't and won't be unrelated cases glued on because people think they're cool.
19:28 mircea_popescu because this isn't a cool thing, this is a useful thing.
19:28 pankkake no, you can simply read the whole filesystem silently, when it is plugged
19:28 mircea_popescu and you know this because ?
19:28 pankkake because that's how USB Mass Storage works
19:28 mircea_popescu right-o.
19:28 asciilifeform ok I should probably chime in here. Easy answer:
19:29 asciilifeform we have a session block cipher key for working slate in SRAM
19:29 mircea_popescu bah ruining all my fun.
19:29 pankkake asciilifeform: wow, so… that what I was proposing!
19:29 pankkake see? don't deny the issue, especially if it is already fixed
19:29 mircea_popescu eh get out
19:29 mircea_popescu i gotta make this guy sign an nda.
19:31 mircea_popescu pankkake : did you read the "At the end of this procedure, the working slate will have been re-formatted, and will appear empty - as Cardano no longer possesses the old block-cipher key." part ?
19:31 asciilifeform without saying much more, the quick answer is: if some part of the draft spec seems illogical / bizzare / 'couldn't physically wurk', the answer is generally 'the obvious fix.'
19:31 pankkake no. I TL;DRed it. but that was no reason to say that my concern was invalid - it was valid, and actually taken care of
19:32 mircea_popescu which means it's invalid.
19:32 pankkake ugh…
19:34 Vexual sscience
19:35 Vexual can i get a 9 pin plug instread of usb? :)
19:35 pankkake you mean a 9 in plug?
19:36 asciilifeform Vexual: for your VT-100?
19:36 Vexual yeah im saving up for a new computer
19:37 nubbins` hey! my bitbet was accepted
19:37 nubbins` thrilling
19:38 mircea_popescu how did that happen!
19:39 mircea_popescu and i gave clear orders no futher bets to be accepted!!1 the entire system is breaking down!
19:39 nubbins` lel
19:39 Vexual whats the bet?
19:39 nubbins` http://bitbet.us/bet/552/havelock-will-announce-us-restrictions-by-guy-fawkes/
19:39 ozbot BitBet - Havelock will announce US restrictions by Guy Fawkes Night
19:40 nubbins` it's en vogue these days
19:41 Vexual are you the no nubs?
19:41 nubbins` not sure how to answer
19:41 nubbins` oh!
19:41 nubbins` lel
19:41 nubbins` no
19:42 nubbins` i thought you were asking if i didn't have any nubs
19:42 pankkake while the "ASICMINER weekly dividend drops below 0.005 per share in 2013" was getting rejected it is now too late, as the last one was 0.004
19:42 kakobrekla http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/10/09/oops-azerbaijan-released-election-results-before-voting-had-even-started/
19:42 ozbot Oops: Azerbaijan released election results before voting had even started
19:43 nubbins` hah
19:43 Vexual private fibre
19:43 asciilifeform speaking of Azerbaijan, has anyone here done the TOR exercise suggested in MP's comments?
19:44 nubbins` which exercise is that?
19:45 mircea_popescu lol azerbaijan govt is truely efficient.
19:45 asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2013/dear-guardian-stop-being-retarded/#comment-95409
19:45 ozbot Dear Guardian : stop being retarded. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
19:45 nubbins` someone mentioned it earlier today
19:46 pankkake given I know people who had police visits quickly after running exit nodes, I won't
19:46 asciilifeform don't do it on a residential pipe.
19:47 pankkake and probably don't do it on your name, but with some kind of legal shield
19:47 assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.36110131 BTC [+]
19:47 pankkake I mean, legal entity
19:47 Vexual more 802.11s!
19:47 asciilifeform it is best done under the flag of an organization existing for some other not entirely related purpose.
19:48 asciilifeform with the commander's approval, naturally
19:48 asciilifeform or if you're a cheapo you can just rent an Amazon EC2 instance.
19:48 asciilifeform they Officially love TOR.
19:48 pankkake won't Amazon rat you out?
19:49 asciilifeform last i checked tor exits were explicitly permitted in their TOS
19:49 assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.42999999 = 0.86 BTC [+] {2}
19:49 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 33 @ 0.11248786 = 3.7121 BTC [-] {8}
19:49 asciilifeform the fact of them sneaking a peek at your results if they feel like it is another matter.
19:50 pankkake having the server pulled off isn't the real concern, the real concern is them giving your personal info to the police
19:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform don't you find that amazon love quite damning ?
19:50 asciilifeform and if you diddle traffic in an easily detected way, TOR foundation will add your node to its blacklist.
19:50 pankkake there are many other providers who explicitely say TOR is OK
19:50 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 22 @ 0.10165454 = 2.2364 BTC [-] {5}
19:50 assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.43 = 0.86 BTC [+]
19:50 mircea_popescu pankkake like who ? (i've not been watching this any)
19:50 pankkake some others that automatically shut you down (I know one who monitors for both TOR and Freenet)
19:51 asciilifeform there is no shortage of damning. TOR's authors really love it when you run it on VPS hosts, saves them some $ on running their own diddled nodes.
19:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00085235 = 0.8524 BTC [+]
19:51 pankkake https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/GoodBadISPs
19:52 pankkake I'm running a relay on an EDIS node
19:52 mircea_popescu Arvixe (hosting) Openly and respectfully state that while they dont permit a TOR exit on shared hosting accounts, you are very welcome to run one on a VPS account.
19:52 mircea_popescu nice.
19:52 asciilifeform 'shared hosting' typically means no persistent processes
19:52 asciilifeform so, no IRC either, etc
19:53 pankkake hehe, I remember when you could rent "shells" and the number of resident processes was limited
19:53 pankkake for the same price you can probably get a dedicated server now
19:54 asciilifeform my advice to anyone who does the exercise is to look up what happened to the Swedish fellow who did likewise and published the results in an academic paper.
19:54 asciilifeform and then draw appropriate conclusions.
19:55 Vexual you can kiss those 4 centibits goodbye nubbins
19:55 pankkake anyway, the tor list of isps is a good source even if you don't care for TOR
19:56 asciilifeform the TOR source is a good source even for those who don't care for TOR
19:56 asciilifeform it is one thing to say 'gotta be a honeypot, bureaucrats wrote it' and another to see just how the pot is intended to function
19:56 asciilifeform and under what conditions it is usable as something else.
19:57 pankkake http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2007/11/swedish-researc/ him?
19:57 ozbot Tor Researcher Who Exposed Embassy E-mail Passwords Gets Raided by Swedish FBI and CIA | Threat Leve
19:57 asciilifeform yes, him.
19:57 Vexual no wait, the other ways around
19:57 pankkake the tor project explicitely says you should not trust exit nodes
19:58 asciilifeform it says quite a few things
19:58 asciilifeform such as, for instance, that a healthy person should eschew Winblows
19:58 asciilifeform words are cheap.
19:58 pankkake TBB ships with HTTPS anywhere, not that it is enough…
19:59 pankkake actually, even torbrowser on linux is quite risky
19:59 pankkake unless you forbid any non-tor traffic, like Tails does
20:00 asciilifeform anyone who even thinks of 'browser' when thinking about TOR, etc. is already in a state of damnation.
20:01 pankkake what do you mean?
20:02 asciilifeform refer to the 'dumb users' section of the latest TOR dirt leak (even if you believe that the 'leak' is disinfo, the section applies to most users.)
20:02 asciilifeform so consider the case of a TORist who proceeds to log into gmail, etc. while on a circuit
20:03 asciilifeform game over.
20:03 asciilifeform or the similar case of 'cookies' enabled
20:03 pankkake right
20:04 pankkake that's why Tails is great: use it to do your thing and this only
20:05 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.9530003 = 1.906 BTC [+]
20:06 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 42 @ 0.00866 = 0.3637 BTC [-]
20:07 blastbob1 i was dreaming about a irc based exchange on the tor network
20:07 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.9530002 BTC [-]
20:08 pankkake hmm and you would put orders through bots?
20:08 blastbob1 yea
20:08 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.953 BTC [-]
20:08 pankkake I like it - tor or not
20:08 blastbob1 faster than any web on tor atleast
20:09 kakobrekla assbot speaks mpex
20:09 pankkake I don't like websites or browsers, so :)
20:09 mircea_popescu blastbob1 you are aware this is how mpex works yes ?
20:09 kakobrekla :p
20:09 blastbob1 heard some rumours yes
20:09 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2013/the-many-ways-available-for-talking-to-mpex/
20:10 ozbot The many ways available for talking to MPEx pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
20:10 mircea_popescu there, spec. why live on rumors.
20:11 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 51 @ 0.00867 = 0.4422 BTC [+]
20:12 blastbob1 Can you accually buy and sell with it also?
20:12 mircea_popescu yup
20:13 pankkake $proxies
20:13 mpexbot pankkake: ["http://mpex.co", "http://mpex.ws", "http://mpex.bz", "http://mpex.coinbr.com", "http://mpex6.coinbr.com"]
20:16 kakobrekla i hear rumours?
20:16 kakobrekla http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJJnJJFCyl4
20:16 ozbot Awesome - Rumours - YouTube
20:17 Azelphur proxies? have places started blocking mpex? XD
20:17 pankkake simply prepare for the worst
20:17 Azelphur ah
20:19 kakobrekla most of those are offline
20:19 kakobrekla proxies
20:19 pankkake is that indented?
20:19 pankkake intended
20:19 kakobrekla i doubt
20:19 Azelphur mircea_popescu: I spot a kivy screenshot
20:19 Azelphur :)
20:20 nubbins` Vexual: not my bitcents! i'm in it to win it
20:20 Vexual yes well you must have seen snl last week too nubbins
20:20 nubbins` sadly, no :(
20:21 Vexual the thinking persons merican news and currnt affairs
20:21 nubbins` i thought that was the onion
20:22 Vexual no thats just to confuse old people
20:22 nubbins` ah! i have so much to learn
20:22 nubbins` i get most of my news through the glorious red lens of the canadian broadcasting corporation
20:23 Vexual the red lens is the bc bud?
20:23 nubbins` i was referring to their strong slant to the left
20:24 nubbins` although i think i recall that in other places red is the right-wing color of choice?
20:24 nubbins` hard to keep track
20:24 mircea_popescu Azelphur hm ?
20:24 Azelphur in your blog post
20:25 Azelphur I spy python+kivy
20:25 mircea_popescu o.
20:25 Azelphur http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/mpex_droid.png
20:25 mircea_popescu yeh
20:25 mircea_popescu some people don't know the glory of perl
20:27 Azelphur you mean, the terribleness
20:28 mircea_popescu :p
20:28 mircea_popescu im in such a trollish mood today
20:28 Vexual tell that to a t1000 terminator, theyre all perl
20:29 nubbins` i thought they were written in RPG IV
20:32 pankkake you can run a kivy application on a desktop too?
20:32 nubbins` sure
20:32 mircea_popescu you can run anything on linux.
20:32 mircea_popescu that is what the word means.
20:34 pankkake I knew it mostly as a way to write Android applications in Python. if it can run without the android crap, it's great
20:35 mircea_popescu i think it's pretty much useful as a way to write for smartphones, but it does run in linux.
20:35 mircea_popescu which means it can be run on the toaster oven or w/e.
20:37 mircea_popescu Vexual http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_T1000 ?
20:37 pankkake well I'm on a project where most of GUIs suck, and we only support one dead mobile platform. kivy was on our radars
20:38 mircea_popescu jesus that sounds bad.
20:38 pankkake not really. we're like mpex, mostly CLIs :p
20:38 Vexual also not actualy self aware
20:39 mircea_popescu aok
20:41 pankkake looks like no java required for kivy on desktop. yay
20:42 mircea_popescu nope. it's a decent tool.
20:50 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 32 @ 0.00881 = 0.2819 BTC [-]
20:50 mircea_popescu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_that_most_frequently_use_the_word_%22fuck%22
20:50 mircea_popescu apparently wikipedia has one good article on it.
20:53 nubbins` "This is a list of non-pornographic, English language films"
20:53 pankkake FPM is a good unit
20:54 pankkake there's also youtube videos with only the fucks
20:55 mircea_popescu the fuckdebit
20:55 nubbins` f/m^2 as the fucks accelerate
20:56 pankkake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jSMTcx69-Q
20:56 ozbot Jay And Silent Bob Strike Back: The F*cking Short Version - YouTube
21:02 mircea_popescu english is so banal. i can only imagine what that'd have sounded like in romanian.
21:03 pankkake indeed, I wonder if other language have such a popular curse worse
21:05 pankkake word*
21:05 pankkake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM8Mq4yz2Hw (though the joke is also the translation)
21:05 ozbot fuck you - YouTube
21:05 mircea_popescu m'embeterai
21:05 mircea_popescu lmao
21:06 pankkake it's funny because it's true. French translations are pretty tame
21:07 pankkake saperlipopette !
21:08 mircea_popescu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNOdcBUJ3eU
21:08 ozbot injuraturi - YouTube
21:08 mircea_popescu this is one of the better romanian strings.
21:08 mircea_popescu interestingly, the chick is actually french and she doesn't speak romanian. learned it phonetically.
21:08 pankkake nice
21:09 mircea_popescu (Marthe Felten)
21:10 Vexual http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6dgOu6sj9Y
21:10 ozbot Hercules Returns: "Testiculi's father".. Part 1 - YouTube
21:11 nubbins` huh, virtex is issuing debit cards now
21:11 nubbins` cool
21:11 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 26 @ 0.008989 = 0.2337 BTC [+]
21:12 Lennix any updates from ukto regarding refunding the bugged fees?
21:12 pankkake https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYoeBn247CU that movie is an insult goldmine and a classic
21:14 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 34 @ 0.009 = 0.306 BTC [+] {3}
21:14 mircea_popescu According to Pileggi, Scorsese cold-called the writer and told him, "I've been waiting for this book my entire life." To which Pileggi replied "I've been waiting for this phone call my entire life".
21:20 pankkake I'm becoming addicted to zero fee transactions. it's like gambling except you eventually win
21:26 kakobrekla coincontrol build is perfect for that
21:26 kakobrekla you can easily add bloat btc to make it free
21:26 kakobrekla or select apropriate input
21:27 pankkake it's how I chose the amounts I bitbet usually, I take a full input :)
21:28 mircea_popescu it does have a cost tho
21:28 kakobrekla you can do 1 satoshi tx and attach 100 btc to it for bloat and its free
21:28 Vexual a satoshi saved is a satoshi earned
21:28 mircea_popescu in the sense that old coinbase are worth that many btcdays
21:29 pankkake indeed. I was actually thinking of how a service could try to lower its fees by coinbase optimization
21:29 kakobrekla have one big input of 1k btc and shave off btc
21:30 kakobrekla change address always self
21:30 pankkake if the change address is self, then it's still considered old?
21:30 Vexual no
21:30 kakobrekla nop
21:30 pankkake that's why I thought of having multiple old coinbases, of many values
21:31 kakobrekla just make it big enough
21:31 Vexual 1000 btc ages quickly
21:31 pankkake oh, the bigger it is, the faster it ages?
21:31 kakobrekla "btcdays" is the unit
21:31 kakobrekla 1 btc per day
21:32 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.13085 BTC [+]
21:32 assbot [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 29800 @ 0.00018099 = 5.3935 BTC [-] {4}
21:32 kakobrekla 0.5 btc would take 2 days
21:32 kakobrekla 2 btc would take half a day
21:32 pankkake I see. cool. I wasn't able to find a good documentation on the matter earlier
21:33 kakobrekla ;;calc (60*60*24)/1000
21:33 gribble 86.4
21:33 kakobrekla looks like 86 seconds for a 1k
21:34 kakobrekla a sendtomany every block easy
21:40 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 14 @ 0.008821 = 0.1235 BTC [-]
21:40 Vexual hows the 250k block gonna work in 5 years?
21:41 Vexual plebs will only be able to send coins using services affiliated with mining conglomerates?
21:42 mircea_popescu pretty much
21:45 Vexual cool, im gonna buy noumea so i can learn improper french properly
21:49 assbot [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.43 = 2.15 BTC [+]
21:52 pankkake ;;bc,stats
21:52 gribble Current Blocks: 262659 | Current Difficulty: 1.8928124928103292E8 | Next Difficulty At Block: 264095 | Next Difficulty In: 1436 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 1 hour, 37 minutes, and 4 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 220202781.137 | Estimated Percent Change: 16.33629
21:58 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 85 @ 0.009 = 0.765 BTC [+] {2}
22:02 nubbins` anyone feel like fielding a couple of questions about coloured coins?
22:07 Jere_Jones Anyone know what's going on whty Ukyo lately?
22:07 Jere_Jones s/whty/with
22:09 Vexual hes maybe moving to okinawa
22:09 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 40 @ 0.009 = 0.36 BTC [+]
22:10 Vexual waiting on a visa for his cat
22:10 Jere_Jones He seems to be MIA for over a week now.
22:10 Vexual biosecurity is pretty big in japan
22:13 mircea_popescu ;;seen ukyo
22:13 gribble ukyo was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 3 days, 20 hours, 26 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <Ukyo> So speculate all you want. :)
22:13 mircea_popescu ;;seen ukto
22:13 gribble ukto was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 2 days, 17 hours, 12 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <Ukto> yeah. there are easier ways. :)
22:13 nubbins` after an admittedly short search, i wasn't able to find a whole lot of technical info on the theory behind colored coins, but i found this odd snippet in a paper:
22:13 mircea_popescu hm
22:14 Vexual im joking people, hes moving to tokyo
22:14 nubbins` "A valid Bitcoin transaction which does not follow the special colored format, will be recognized by the Bitcoin network, but not as a legitimate color-preserving transaction by the colored coin network. The color of these coins will be lost, and hence users and software clients need to be careful to avoid doing this and losing their value."
22:14 Vexual cat is true
22:14 nubbins` but why the fuck would you design it in such a way that the "color of the coins" (i.e. your shares in company x or whatever) could ever be lost?
22:14 nubbins` it boggles me
22:14 Vexual otherwise its racist?
22:15 Vexual couloured coins isn't even a thing
22:15 nubbins` that's it
22:15 nubbins` it's because shit like i pasted doesn't make sense
22:15 nubbins` and things that don't make sense don't get implemented
22:15 pankkake why even use the bitcoin blockchain?
22:16 nubbins` hash power!
22:16 pankkake merged mining!
22:16 nubbins` separate blockchain would be vulnerable to 51% attacks
22:16 pankkake well, ok, you have to add incentives to merge mine it
22:16 nubbins` but let's say i own 100 shares in company x
22:16 Vexual le nuage
22:17 nubbins` why can't i just send pankkake a dust transaction with "xfer 100 S.GEM" in the note field?
22:17 mircea_popescu nubbins` because idiots.
22:17 mircea_popescu see also
22:17 mircea_popescu ;;google why i nixed
22:17 nubbins` i mean, if the idea behind colored coins is that you have to make this huge tree of transactions that have some sort of magic dust in them
22:17 gribble nixed - definition of nixed by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus ...: <http://www.thefreedictionary.com/nixed>; Why I nixed p2p, colored coins and all that jazz pe Trilema - Un blog ...: <http://trilema.com/why-i-nixed-p2p-colored-coins-and-all-that-jazz>; Why I Nixed the Knicks | The New York Observer: <http://observer.com/2012/11/why-i-nixed-the-knicks/>
22:17 nubbins` why not tie the shares to the address, not to any particular coins?
22:18 nubbins` i send a dust tx to address 1abc, with note "xfer 100 s.gem", so address 1abc is assumed to always possess those 100 shares, permanently
22:18 nubbins` no losing them
22:18 nubbins` until they send a dust tx to someone else saying xfer 50 s.gem or whatever
22:19 pankkake from what I understand, colored coins aren't much better than asicminer-style direct shares
22:19 nubbins` tying assets to individual coins and not addresses doesn't make any sense
22:19 nubbins` the only thing direct shares need is a way to post bids and asks
22:19 nubbins` without relying on a website
22:21 mircea_popescu because the handkling of fixed addresses is poorly understood because, again, idiots.
22:22 pankkake I'm still waiting for any technical insight on colored coins, so far I only see circlejerks (like the reddit shirt fundraiser)
22:23 nubbins` nothing that couldn't be trivially implemented in any desktop or web-based bitcoin client
22:23 nubbins` another tab next to "receive money" on your blockchain.info account
22:24 mircea_popescu nubbins` here's the thing : if you do it with addresses you don't really need the blockchain, might as well do it to gpg signatures.
22:25 mircea_popescu which reduces to a slightly braindamaged reimplementation of mpex.
22:26 nubbins` mpex servers melt tomorrow, no trading; i can still send a dust tx to transfer my colored address shares
22:26 Vexual you got a dude with an ak guarding your private key?
22:27 nubbins` i'm assuming you keep records of who owns what? suppose you didn't have to
22:27 nubbins` Vexual: don't we all?
22:27 Vexual few do
22:27 mircea_popescu nubbins` you can, but you have an escrow problem each time you do.
22:28 nubbins` escrow is a problem?
22:28 mircea_popescu yes, escrow is a problem.
22:29 nubbins` multi-sig transactions
22:29 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 58 @ 0.009 = 0.522 BTC [+]
22:30 mircea_popescu multi-sig txs are not a solution to the escrow problem really.
22:30 Vexual og blockchain is the gold standard, accept no substitutes
22:30 mircea_popescu they;'re a useful tool in some contexts, but you still need to have an escrow agent
22:30 mircea_popescu if that agent melts down... no transactions.
22:30 mircea_popescu which brings you back to exactly where we started.
22:31 Vexual whats the point?
22:31 nubbins` if the transacting parties agree, there's no need for the escrow agent at all, but you're correct in that the system would hinge on having a supply of readily-available escrow agents
22:31 mircea_popescu yeah.
22:31 nubbins` although
22:32 nubbins` it's trivial to verify a legit tx
22:32 mircea_popescu depends on the state of the blockchain at that time
22:32 mircea_popescu if it's forked, it may be impossible.
22:32 nubbins` well, if it's forked, lots of things are impossible
22:32 mircea_popescu not for mpex.
22:33 mircea_popescu moreover, you will have a sensible delay in all trades. what's better, one day a year of no trading or half hour lost to settle each individual trade ?
22:33 nubbins` hm
22:35 mircea_popescu today is like design 101 day
22:35 Vexual got a logo yet?
22:35 pankkake from what I see, this is going the way of the decentralized facebook
22:36 nubbins` y'know, i think everything but the delay could be worked around
22:36 mircea_popescu just about. decentralised trust is about as clever as decentralised cunt.
22:36 mircea_popescu you got nothing to rub against.
22:36 mircea_popescu in unrelated news, http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2013/10/08/are-anti-bullying-programs-having-an-opposite-effect/
22:36 pankkake are anti-whatever programs having an opposite effect? yes
22:38 mircea_popescu Vexual logo for what you mean ?
22:38 pankkake colored coins?
22:38 pankkake it's the first step to any successful project!
22:38 nubbins` the logo looks horrible in my head
22:38 Vexual nothing to rub against, that bests beans in the sausage soup
22:38 Vexual lmao
22:39 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 600 @ 0.00123997 = 0.744 BTC [+] {3}
22:39 Kleeck_ LOL: oops! http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/10/09/oops-azerbaijan-released-election-results-before-voting-had-even-started/
22:39 pankkake http://mpex.co/favicon.ico even MPEx has a logo!
22:41 pankkake http://bitcoin-assets.com/static/mpex-248x50.png eh, still horrible
22:42 Vexual i mean logo for beardy italian gpg stick
22:42 people still use favicon?
22:42 nubbins` faviconcoin
22:42 pankkake why wouldn't you have favicons?
22:43 nubbins` having no favicon implies boorishness
22:57 Vexual if i may suggest, a bearded italian
22:57 Vexual im pretty sure theres no copywrite on those images
22:58 mircea_popescu which ?
23:00 Vexual the name of the guy, who your gpg key is named after, whos name i forget becuase i didn't know of him before
23:00 asciilifeform Vexual: he is also known for inventing... the crankshaft.
23:00 Vexual really?
23:01 Vexual i must have really skimmed wikipedia that time
23:01 mircea_popescu i have no idea what's going on...
23:01 asciilifeform well, the modern version thereof
23:02 Vexual whats the name again?
23:03 asciilifeform err, not the crankshaft, the gimbal shaft
23:03 asciilifeform as in this one - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_joint
23:03 Vexual like some trustless gyroscope
23:04 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1 BTC [+]
23:04 mircea_popescu o you mean the cardan joint ?
23:04 asciilifeform right
23:05 asciilifeform but I first learned of him because of 'Cardano's Grille'
23:05 asciilifeform possibly the most fun low-tech cipher machine possible
23:06 mircea_popescu which suggests a great line to me : whenever someone wants to featurecreep me, i shall go "we're doing a cardan joint not a thomson coupling here"
23:06 Vexual you know rastas replace the word vital with ital
23:07 Vexual and italians improved had made hash production in the himilayas
23:07 Vexual they are very good at first principals
23:07 asciilifeform the obsolete crypto method in question: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardan_grille
23:08 asciilifeform who knew it was on pediwikia
23:09 Vexual a beautiful culture in tune with an old language, great for thought
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23:12 mircea_popescu ome free time, why not try something new? Vibrators.com has been giving away this free vibrator for years as a bonus gift with customers’ orders and it receives great reviews. It is fairly powerful, quiet, and uses a single AA battery (not included). It is 5 inches long and 1 inch in diameter, a smaller vibe. It is emblazoned with the Vibrators.com logo on one side, so that you will forever remember our generosity.”
23:14 Vexual i remember something an old italian man told me, ingenious, i have to poke it in with a stick
23:24 Vexual its probaly funnier when you've seen his wife
23:24 asciilifeform gimbal joint built into the stick, or the wife?
23:25 Vexual whats latin for gspot?
23:26 mircea_popescu punto g ?
23:30 Vexual sounds like a diesel
23:33 KRS- somoene's wife sounds like a diesel?
23:34 Vexual if you're doing it right
23:44 Vexual http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pjs7lGPCKE
23:44 ozbot AlKpote - Bande de p****** de sales p**** - Clip officiel - YouTube
23:45 KRS- lol true i guess never thought about it haha
23:47 KRS- hmm..good song..my whole house is vibrating because of my HiFi
23:48 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 0.11909998 BTC [+]
23:49 kakobrekla only could afford for one whore?
23:51 Vexual lots of speakers is best life
23:53 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.96000101 BTC [-]
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