#trilema | 2018-08-20

pest - 1d 1h
trilema - 1017d

Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2018-08-19 | 2018-08-21 → ↓

07:49	asciilifeform	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-19#1842911 << BingoBoingo plox to do as we did with prev rk, put the disk in dulap and ping asciilifeform when did.
07:49	a111	Logged on 2018-08-19 16:51 BingoBoingo: <mod6> BingoBoingo: Tomorrow (the 20th) you may arrage the nuke/pave of mircea_popescu's rented rockchip with asciilifeform. << Aite
		~ 2 hours 29 minutes ~
10:18	mircea_popescu	good morning republicans!
10:20	Mocky	good morning, how goes?
10:21	mircea_popescu	oh great, got a buncha'bandoned eggs. and >20k flotsam. life's great when you have a bot.
10:26	Mocky	when I went opened comp this morning half expected chat window to be flashing with with ping "bot dun work!"
10:26	mircea_popescu	mnop. you got it.
10:32	mod6	mornin' mircea_popescu
10:32	mod6	thanks asciilifeform && BingoBoingo
		~ 47 minutes ~
11:19	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: ack, caffinating and then heading over
11:27	deedbot	http://trilema.com/2018/the-sovereign-power-of-the-republic/ << Trilema - The sovereign power of The Republic
11:32	mod6	thumbsup
		~ 18 minutes ~
11:51	Mocky	mircea_popescu, in the latest trilema piece I can't resolve the selection at the "ammends"(sic) link: http://trilema.com/2014/maramu/#selection-161.1-165.92
11:51	mircea_popescu	why not ?
11:51	mircea_popescu	o i c ty
11:53	mircea_popescu	doesn't it link "Si nu-i da canoane multe ca cu mine is facute si nu-i da canone grele ca pacatile-s a mele." for you ?
11:55	asciilifeform	best trilemabanner to date , btw, imho
11:55	mircea_popescu	a rly ?
11:55	mircea_popescu	i actually like the ones with girls, myself.
11:55	asciilifeform	i like with the teeth.
11:56	mircea_popescu	lmao
11:56	asciilifeform	i picture the camera pov as that of hogtied prisoner derp, and mircea_popescu whispers 'you dun even know what fun lies ahead'
11:56	mircea_popescu	this is not at all that far off. i do a lot of that.
11:57	mircea_popescu	but it is genuinely fun -- even if it doesn't seem so to the victim in the moment, it does retrospectively.
11:59	asciilifeform	btw is pizdeț in ro roughly ~= пиздец ?
11:59	Mocky	no, i get something like http://trilema.com/2014/maramu/#selection-165.47-160.1
11:59	mircea_popescu	it's pizdet, an animal collective term for young females. ~cattle.
11:59	asciilifeform	hm then not same
12:00	mircea_popescu	Mocky it dun happen on my system ;/ wut do ?!
12:00	asciilifeform	пиздец is multipurpose, but roughly a mythical ragnarok where world is swallowed by enormous cunt
12:00	mircea_popescu	right. but no, in ro -et is collective noun derivative. storfet, the group of cheap whores, from stoarfa, cheap whore.
12:00	mircea_popescu	pasaret, collection of birds, from pasare, bird.
12:01	mircea_popescu	(this being the ur-case. older, and no doubt the model for the others)
12:01	asciilifeform	so then approx пиздня
12:01	mircea_popescu	yes.
		~ 17 minutes ~
12:19	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Swapped
12:19	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: can go eat, i'ma reflash disk, will take <1hr.
12:19	BingoBoingo	ty
12:21	asciilifeform	lulzy, btw, by all indications box was not touched since end of may
12:22	BingoBoingo	lol
12:36	mircea_popescu	surprising no one in particular.
12:39	asciilifeform	d00d never even made homedir for self, ran as root...
12:45	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: ok to re-emplace disk and power up 'A' , plox to signal when powered.
		~ 18 minutes ~
13:03	mircea_popescu	in other items of perhaps interest to the medievalist, https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/sbook2.asp
13:05	mircea_popescu	half molded already, eg boetius' consolatione, https://www.lib.virginia.edu/etext/latin/boethius/boephil.html
13:06	asciilifeform	oh hey notbad
13:07	asciilifeform	lotsa lotsa broken linx tho, e.g. 'Alpamysh, a Central Asian, Turkic epic, [At ukc.ac.uk] and here [At Kansas] ' -- both dead
13:08	asciilifeform	holyfuq even 'canterbury tales' has deadlinx
13:09	asciilifeform	council of trent -- dead
13:09	asciilifeform	dafuq
13:09	asciilifeform	mega-archive.
13:09	asciilifeform	i think i misparsed 'half molded' lol
13:09	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu this thing is ~100% molded.
13:09	mircea_popescu	what can you do. 1990s item
13:13	asciilifeform	this item , with '9000' others, is well illustrative of the idiocy of the whole idea of the purely external link
13:14	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform tis the fate of classical text, whadda ya want
13:14	asciilifeform	troo hyper-document oughta contain snapshots of all linkage. ( sure if external entity updates, viewer can be offered later ver, at ~his~ discretion. but oughta preserve linked material at time of linkage, the era of 'disk costs too much to store human text' went long ago)
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13:14	mircea_popescu	this is what "classical" means -- some peasants lost it meanwhile.
13:14	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i thought whole point of the elaborate electrical echafaudage were , to try an' get around these headaches
13:14	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform if you feel like patching mp-wp to do just this, i'd very much run it.
13:15	mircea_popescu	god knows the logbot auto-archival is wunderbar.
13:15	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: on 'conventional' www this reduces to 'munge the shitstack' problem, afaik still not satisfactorily solved ( and i dun expect a solution ). gotta have remake of www.
13:15	mircea_popescu	and mp-wp hjas a special folder for this.
13:15	asciilifeform	where it is possible to e.g. cleanly parse N-deep linkage.
13:16	asciilifeform	and get at the unadorned text easily.
13:16	mircea_popescu	no need for n deep. just save copy of the item linked.
13:16	mircea_popescu	can be improved later.
13:16	asciilifeform	you'll want linkable passages, trilema-style, at all depths
13:16	asciilifeform	and possibly other refinement
13:17	mircea_popescu	gotta start somewhere
13:17	asciilifeform	lessee what the veteran www-wranglers ( trinque ? ben_vulpes ? ) say about this.
13:18	asciilifeform	( 1-deep archivator suffers from , for instance, the misery of 'paged' texts. you get snapshot of page 9001, and... oops , the rest evaporated. etc )
13:20	mircea_popescu	speaking of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-17#1842466 : http://braythwayt.com/2013/10/04/the-freedom-to-pay-thirty-bux.html (meanwhile at https://github.com/raganwald/braythwayt.com/blob/gh-pages/_posts/2013-10-04-the-freedom-to-pay-thirty-bucks.md because, in the derp's own words, "i am an imbecile".)
13:20	a111	Logged on 2018-08-17 13:53 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in other shoelace-and-gum copies of tmsr artifacts, http://edgecase.net/pages/how_to_buy_edgecase_credits << d00d with a kinda blog, tried to copy mircea_popescu's old paid-articles scheme (spoiler : dunwork) -- ( http://edgecase.net has coupla possibly-interesting items, compiler-wranglings, translations of old lit, btc tx likbez of sorts, etc )
13:21	asciilifeform	i have this vague memory of 'raganwald' appearing in-chan, but apparently not
13:22	asciilifeform	( http://raganwald.com seems to be full of snoar )
13:23	asciilifeform	'But you can also choose to pay. And every time a reader like you does business with me and chooses to pay even though they have an alternative, we see the real worth...' << shareware's been around since '80s, nuffin new here
13:24	asciilifeform	whatever happened to the name, tho, i dun recall seeing it in print for , idk, 20y nao
13:25	asciilifeform	shareware, that is
13:25	mircea_popescu	i suppose on list of inca taboos. share != star-e.
13:26	asciilifeform	gotta be
13:27	mircea_popescu	which somehow reminds me -- the general reaction of the average retarded gringo ("retired" here because "Rich" etc dontcha know) upon running across my peculiar domestic arrangements ("she's my slave") is to propose they're hip to the whole scene, and mention swinger's clubs.
13:28	asciilifeform	'in my chukcha village we have flight also, shaman gives flight mushroom'
13:29	mircea_popescu	like, we totally gotta go there someday. because the fact that their local "girlfriend" who "isn't a puta" but "you support, you know, financially" and "don't know if she'll be around in six months, or for that matter two" is immediately gravitating to my girls has ~0 to do with the fact they've been here years and speak less spanish than my bmw, and with the fact that the REASON they never learned it is because they fucking
13:29	mircea_popescu	have nothing to say, and like the fat loser in http://trilema.com/2017/cemetery-junction/ ~rely~ on the woman not understanding them in the most mechanical of senses.
13:29	asciilifeform	i'll admit to a bit of surprise re the recurrence of the 'retireded gringo' in mircea_popescu's field reports, i was under impression that these were rare outside of reservation
13:30	mircea_popescu	so by this logic, the obvious thing i'd want to do is go to the place where idiots just like him take whores hired for the weekend, to trade my decade+ committed personal whores for their mercenary randos. because totally, i can't hire my own weekend whores if i feel like it, i gotta participate in the best buy of cunt.
13:30	asciilifeform	lol cunt kolhoz
13:31	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform they're ubiquitous. nobody with any sense stays in the ustard lands ; which is why the us is so overpoweringly stupid. suffers from the africa effect -- everyone who's still there, still there FOR A REASON.
13:32	asciilifeform	it isn't clear to me that old folx who cash their usg pension in bananistan instead of miami in any meanigful sense 'left'
13:32	asciilifeform	but who am i to say.
13:32	mircea_popescu	that's rarely wghat this is.
13:33	asciilifeform	oh hm, i thought it were
13:33	asciilifeform	what then is it usually
13:33	mircea_popescu	what it usually is, is dork made some $$$ and instead of going the http://trilema.com/2013/fried-chicken/#selection-21.0-27.251 route (ie, aspiring to local politics) went the offshore route.
13:34	asciilifeform	aa
13:34	mircea_popescu	usually males, and usually after a divorce, whence they discovered that the land is utterly hostile.
13:34	asciilifeform	so esr tank runs dry in 15 y instead of 5, big fat diff, neh
13:34	mircea_popescu	whereas the females (generally enriched by a divorce, more rarely by a "career" ie stealing from men via tax/administrative apparatus rather than via "alimony"/court apparatus) stick and try to hilary.
13:35	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform what can you do.
13:36	asciilifeform	lol, if asciilifeform knew 'what can do', would be buying plane ticket and going, doing it...
13:37	asciilifeform	in 'su 2.0', deceptively easy to physically leave
13:37	mircea_popescu	you keep telling yourself this story, whatever.
13:37	mircea_popescu	it's fucking easy to leave, and you're a moron for staying this long.
13:38	mircea_popescu	but then again, everyone gotta fuck his own ass in his own bed of nails, or w/e it is.
13:38	asciilifeform	[insert the mandatory mircea_popescu thread here]
13:39	mircea_popescu	too bad miss piggy's illiterate, her story'd have made a great read in context.
13:39	asciilifeform	i'm sure it would be great read
13:39	asciilifeform	dun think there is much in the practicals for asciilifeform & similar zeks to learn from the gurlz tho.
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13:40	mircea_popescu	nobody ever learns from another other than in a metaphorical sense.
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13:40	asciilifeform	also nao i'm curious, why illiterate
13:41	asciilifeform	where exactly is misspiggy from
13:41	mircea_popescu	well, she graduated with honros from college, apparently that does it.
13:41	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform purdue.
13:41	asciilifeform	aaah usa
13:41	asciilifeform	makes sense then.
13:43	mircea_popescu	anyway, yes, "it makes me so nervous but i trust you" explains the difference -- slave's well advantaged wrt zek. who's a zek to trust, he's supposed to be something entirely else.
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13:44	asciilifeform	hey it says 'не верь, не бойся, не проси' right in zek handbook!111
13:44	mircea_popescu	kinda PRECISELY why http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-17#1842421
13:44	a111	Logged on 2018-08-17 01:42 mircea_popescu: but the notion that anyone ever wanted a male is the most ridiculous nonsense ever. other than for steaks, xy has no use.
13:44	mircea_popescu	goes right in there with the whole http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22prophete%22 discussions etc.
13:47	asciilifeform	this is not , afaik, a particularly shocking/controversial observation
13:47	mircea_popescu	right.
13:48	asciilifeform	and hence http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-20#1843033 . even dumbest male zek understands, nobody is waiting with open arms for him , unless in role of 'bullock', cheap protein on the hoof.
13:48	a111	Logged on 2018-08-20 17:39 asciilifeform: dun think there is much in the practicals for asciilifeform & similar zeks to learn from the gurlz tho.
13:48	mircea_popescu	now how is it that BingoBoingo manages ?
13:49	*	mircea_popescu is strategically "fortunate", no longer has to ask "now how is it i manage" a few years later. this, of course, happenstance.
13:49	asciilifeform	cuz asciilifeform & co sent him, lol, with lander capsule.
13:49	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: powered on
13:50	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: danke schon ! lemme test fire it, brb
13:51	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yet rather http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-04#1809171 & http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-05#1781729
13:51	a111	Logged on 2018-05-04 16:30 BingoBoingo: more heavily to the end of the year? As it is I am still effectively paying out of my diminishing savings to live amongst the retards.
13:51	a111	Logged on 2018-02-05 23:50 mircea_popescu: aww poor bb lost weight! how you holding up down there ?
13:55	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: worx! and kernel upgraded !
13:57	mod6	hey nice! Thanks Gentlemen.
13:58	asciilifeform	mod6: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/QK9Mg/?raw=true
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13:58	asciilifeform	rk 'A' ready for new tenant.
14:00	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: feel free to go on whatever yer next agenda item were.
14:00	asciilifeform	this box is habitable.
14:01	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform ty
14:05	asciilifeform	revisiting upthread : if mircea_popescu , or even say wykeham professor of logic , tells me 'yer a tard, problem is very simple' i'ma yes, nod, and not try to somehow argue that not. but it dun magically grow asciilifeform moar brain, can only go and think, and possibly one day think out of paper bag, how else.
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14:06	asciilifeform	for instance brin the elder told me ~20y ago that 'yer a tard', i did not argue then also.
14:06	asciilifeform	and still to this day working through how.
14:08	asciilifeform	better like this, than like that : http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-19#761495
14:08	a111	Logged on 2014-07-19 03:17 mircea_popescu: there for all eternity, to confront generations of bright teenagers that'll take about five minutes to figure out she's a furniture, and maybe not torture her for it. maybe.
14:12	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i see no problem with it.
14:13	mircea_popescu	the other side of "it works if you work it" being obviously that you gotta work it till it works.
14:14	asciilifeform	i'd rather go straight to the very bottom of the deep sea, than to be 'saved' like the chix in that story was 'saved' ( not that noncuntbearing folx run much risk of this kind of fate, but there are cases on record )
14:15	mircea_popescu	and why ? \
14:16	asciilifeform	lol i had nfi this needed a why
14:16	mircea_popescu	lol.
14:16	mircea_popescu	hey, doesn't need it, but can take it.
14:18	deedbot	http://qntra.net/2018/08/south-africas-first-targets-in-farm-seizure-program-are-private-hunting-reserves/ << Qntra - South Africa's First Targets In Farm Seizure Program Are Private Hunting Reserves
14:18	asciilifeform	i'm not in the habit of retrofitting a why to where there wasn't one. i suppose i have one set of jumper settings, she -- another, or i'd be in #darpa or wherever the capons and kanzures live, and not here
14:19	mircea_popescu	no tulpas for you, eh ?
14:20	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: the correct thing to do, from pov of the 'kulaks', would be to 1) have nuke waste from ru flown in , and spread generously on nao-'government' land 2) for btc
14:20	asciilifeform	'hunting reserve' lol.
14:20	mircea_popescu	at least we have a working model of how this whole "psychological transsexualism" business work. "trapped" my fucking left foot.
14:21	*	mircea_popescu will confess he always found it suspicious how a buncha derps who "never heard of trilema" somehow magically decided they're really women trapped in wrong bodies the VERY FUCKING MOMENT male market value dropped to nothing at all.
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14:22	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: doubt that's it, the 'market value' of postoperative strange is ~= 0 in either male or female 'hut'
14:22	asciilifeform	tho i suppose as pure cargo cult, hypothesis floats
14:23	mircea_popescu	somehow unknown in the days of Denn träf jede Kugel apart ihren Mann wo kriegten die Könige ihre Soldaten dann?
14:23	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform but ~mentally~ see... psychologic mechanisms resolve psychological problems, not real.
14:23	asciilifeform	it'd be 1 thing if they were all makin' their way, on anyffing that floats or flies, to thailand or wherever the aficionados live
14:23	asciilifeform	but afaik they aint
14:23	mircea_popescu	because this isn't a practical consideration.
14:24	mircea_popescu	the first and foremost task before every would-be "intelligence", artificial or otherwise, is to silence the johnson noise.
14:24	mircea_popescu	how about that! isn't that the greatest pun that ever lived ?
14:24	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: frederick's men were likewise free of sr-90 in bones, and corn syrop fat, and 9000+ else. i have nfi specifically what to pin whichever diff on, therefore.
14:25	mircea_popescu	right. i pick heuristically rather than systematically.
14:26	asciilifeform	re 'johnson noise', absolutely troo, and can't think how could disagree
14:28	*	trinque dying over here over johnson noise
14:29	asciilifeform	re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-20#1843083 item, i suspect it is same general psychopathology as prisoners who bang their heads, blow up own feet with blasting caps, etc to get a stint in hospital as break from butugychag uranium vein tunnel, 'care' from medics, etc
14:29	a111	Logged on 2018-08-20 18:21 mircea_popescu will confess he always found it suspicious how a buncha derps who "never heard of trilema" somehow magically decided they're really women trapped in wrong bodies the VERY FUCKING MOMENT male market value dropped to nothing at all.
14:30	asciilifeform	afaik in german camps nobody chopped off own hands, feet, there was no +ev in it
14:32	asciilifeform	folx who wanted curtain call, jumped the wire, got shot fulla holes, errybody else -- not, no choppings or other oddities, nobody particularly eager to lie down in mengele's hospital.
14:32	mircea_popescu	rather, tis the necessary blossom of bogart's "all that dun ammount to a hill of beans in this crazy world". the necessary result of the "rationalist" fallacy (seen sprawling in say http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-22#1828645 ) and the century reversal of the penile fixation (from stuffy vienna's "civilised world" anxiety of "what if dad cuts it off" to today's stuffy washington's "civilised world" anxity of "what if it plays t
14:32	a111	Logged on 2018-06-22 04:08 mircea_popescu: btw, did we do the "you too can be novelist, buy our narrative card deck and kit" 1800s us entrepreneurialism ?
14:32	mircea_popescu	he same role as the chunk of wood on dog's collar, prevents it from going through the bars"
14:32	mircea_popescu	which it pointedly is, in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-20#1843041
14:32	a111	Logged on 2018-08-20 17:43 mircea_popescu: anyway, yes, "it makes me so nervous but i trust you" explains the difference -- slave's well advantaged wrt zek. who's a zek to trust, he's supposed to be something entirely else.
14:33	mircea_popescu	the notion of this imaginary "perfectibility" of the individual human had to crash eventually.
14:33	mircea_popescu	and it crashes precisely with the bang of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-20#1843065
14:33	a111	Logged on 2018-08-20 18:05 asciilifeform: revisiting upthread : if mircea_popescu , or even say wykeham professor of logic , tells me 'yer a tard, problem is very simple' i'ma yes, nod, and not try to somehow argue that not. but it dun magically grow asciilifeform moar brain, can only go and think, and possibly one day think out of paper bag, how else.
14:34	mircea_popescu	because, at the risk of repeating ourselves, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-20#1843034
14:34	a111	Logged on 2018-08-20 17:40 mircea_popescu: nobody ever learns from another other than in a metaphorical sense.
14:36	asciilifeform	hey i have nfi what is this mythical 'perfectability', on my home planet we have 'горбатого могила исправит' instead
14:38	mircea_popescu	there's this nonsense that emerged as a replacement jolly-joker philosophy out of the french revolution. they had a major problem picking something to believe in, and eventually settled on "humanism" in the "enlightenment" sense of the term.
14:39	mircea_popescu	much like the united states were stuck because the only king they had avaialble didn't want the job, ended up enthroning a length of poster.
14:40	mircea_popescu	basically, "all humans could be any other humans, and if they aren't it's because NOT YET". much better than whatever marat believed in, or the jacobins, or etc. and here by "better" we mean both a) inconsequential, improductive, entirely steriole and b) flashy, marketable
14:41	mircea_popescu	in short, it's better because it produces no things and lots of words -- the ideal state for the jwz. that's what neil simon wants of life, yes, a situation where no things issue but as many words as possible.
14:42	mircea_popescu	then "consumerism" is the perfect hidey hut for this state of affairs -- "oh, we're dedicated to the production of things" "yes, for as long as they lack any substance".
14:48	mircea_popescu	i suppose the best illustration for this problem is ye olde bullet. as proper a quanta of civilisation as one might ever pick.
14:48	asciilifeform	absolutely proper
14:48	mircea_popescu	do you realise less than one in a million hits anything these days ?! never has the quarry/bullet relationship been this tenuous.
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14:49	asciilifeform	recall the 'small bullet'/'covering fire' thread aha
14:49	mircea_popescu	in a sense, there's never been things that were contained of as little thingness. really, 1ppm or less ? such performance takes surprise, fear and a fanatical devotion to the pope.
14:51	mircea_popescu	and so let's talk about which can of pepsi etc.
14:51	asciilifeform	with auto rifle comes 'spray and pray, why learn to aim', with TB disk -- 'why care how many kb is 'hello world'', etc
14:51	asciilifeform	seems inevitable
14:52	asciilifeform	there's a d00d on my street who goes on, i shit thee not, 10 minute long car trips. 8 or so times in a day. ( i think, to buy mcfood ) but just picture this .
14:52	asciilifeform	painful to think on what most petrol in usa is used. i suspect -- this.
14:56	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it isn't clear to me that jacobins etc actually believed in anyffing other than 'let's burn shit down'
14:56	asciilifeform	( and also not clear that it didn't desperately need burnin' down, for that matter )
14:58	asciilifeform	'first kill the inca, then we think what next' is imho 100% legit programme.
15:05	mircea_popescu	even if that were so, it's a different belief from impotence-on-wheels.
15:05	mircea_popescu	but in any case, jacobin stands today for "an immoderate search for truth, more liable to burn shit down than discover any truths".
15:05	mircea_popescu	immaturity, if you will, most intelligent small children are consumed by a desire to destroy their toys to see what's inside.
15:06	*	asciilifeform destroyed unspeakably fine toys by the crateload, to the great frustration of his elder brother
15:07	mircea_popescu	right ?
15:07	mircea_popescu	jacobin stage.
15:07	asciilifeform	speaking of this, if any l1 folx wants the c101pa carcass, probes and all, and the spare MBs etc, plox to write in
15:09	mircea_popescu	weren't you going to do an inventory of your midden, to finance something or the other at some point ?
15:09	asciilifeform	to free up space, lol
15:09	asciilifeform	i dun expect it'll add up to financing-anyffing
15:11	*	asciilifeform doesn't own much in the way of toys with aftermarket value
		~ 44 minutes ~
15:55	mircea_popescu	lol alfie, maybe one day you're famous enough for http://logs.minigame.biz/2017-12-18.log.html#t20:44:22
15:56	asciilifeform	lol
15:56	asciilifeform	'shards of the true cross'(tm)(r) eh
15:56	lobbesbot	Logged on 2017-12-18 20:44:22: <lobbesbot> AUCTION # 163 has ENDED: The very notebook displayed in http://trilema.com/2017/of-ducks-and-lameness/ ! Free shipping anywhere in the world included. SOLD to danielpbarron for 1mn coppers. Attn: mircea_popescu
15:57	mircea_popescu	incidentally, for they interested in "price theory" : the above is an exemplar of an interesting class of economic objects, anti-metropolitan let's call them.
15:57	asciilifeform	hm wassat
15:58	mircea_popescu	because the actual item delivered (something + ~shipping~) varies according to who buys it, there's actually a larger incentive for agents located ~at the periphery~ to buy it. ie, if you live in paris and shipping is 1 ecu, a bit of 100 ecu means you're paying 99 ecu for the item. if you live however in christchurch and shipping is 99 ecu, a 100 ecu bid means you're getting the item for 1 ecu.
15:59	mircea_popescu	obviously people bake in the cost of their peripheral-ness in their price judgements, which is why i'm willing to pay 10 bux a pound for cherries here, whereas in romania they're ~free for the picking.
15:59	asciilifeform	FG was also fixed-shipping-cost also neh
15:59	mircea_popescu	consequently, this sort of auction actually favours the shipping, especially of choice goods, AWAY from the city.
15:59	mircea_popescu	ie, "all good things flow ~away~ from the town", reversal of ye olde greek observation.
15:59	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform afaik. and mostly sold to non-metropolitans, because those are fucked in the head and have "fashions" to explain why they suck.
16:00	asciilifeform	this is troo of just about all industrial goods tho
16:00	mircea_popescu	in any case, let it not be said economy is ~necessarily~ centralizing. if one uses the strand of centralizing devices, it can be. one doesn't have to.
16:00	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform no. notice how amazon carefully charges the shipping separately.\
16:01	mircea_popescu	but yes, it could be. if not specifically suppressed ~by policy~, the major-est market for german machinery would have been russia, and the biggest buyers of machineguns the zulu etc.
16:01	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: you may find it interesting that back in its native orcistan , lulazon appeals largely by playing subscription games with shipping
16:01	mircea_popescu	as it is, the politics carefully (and secretly) constraining it, all that's left visible is harmless nonsense, a la "saudis buyers of luxury cars"
16:01	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform right.
16:01	mircea_popescu	kinda my point here.
16:03	asciilifeform	the only reason i even use lulazon for anyffing, 'pay 80bux/y and the rest of the yr can order 3 m3 screws and two metres of #10 copper shipped sameday for 0 extra' etc
		↖
16:03	mircea_popescu	anyway, in the general, a most important chore of the republic is to destroy the economic basis of "paris", ie the notional metropolis,
16:04	mircea_popescu	using the sort of devices which make inca's seat an added tax, as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-17#1842669 , rather than a natural bonus, as in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-18#1842837
16:04	a111	Logged on 2018-08-17 20:17 mircea_popescu: "you want diplomatic relations, first you pay 10x what we think you broke should be valued at, then maybe"
16:04	a111	Logged on 2018-08-18 22:49 mircea_popescu: anyway, ~this~ is the "network effect" advantage : that should amazon's cart fail for three minutes, amazon would lose ~0 dollar value -- those schmucks will just come back. this is the niche the empire ever hopes to inhabit, and that it works is directly evident in the decrease of quality of life the zeks permitted over the past century. great-grandfather of ustard, ozlander or argentine lived A LOT better than the grandfath
16:05	mircea_popescu	in general, "sell the policeman an apple for twice what you'd sell it to an orc" is sounder policy than alternatives.
16:05	asciilifeform	lulazon is inca-centralizing to an extent lolmart et al could only have dreamed of -- ~0 competition in described space
16:05	asciilifeform	( see e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-11#1812485 thread )
16:05	a111	Logged on 2018-05-11 20:37 asciilifeform: ( incidentally, if you think m3 ~screw~ is impossible to find in shops here -- try a ~tap~. one time asciilifeform broke a m3 tap and wanted a replacement quickly, and like complete idiot tried to buy ~in shops~. result : wasted weekend )
16:06	asciilifeform	'the giant sat down in chair' or how did mircea_popescu put it in the old piece
16:07	asciilifeform	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-11#1812516 in particular.
16:07	a111	Logged on 2018-05-11 21:01 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: astronomical rents, i suspect, also play a part. it is ~impossible to stay open if you stock anything that doesn't move continuously. specialist shops are the first to die.
16:10	asciilifeform	the unfortunate bit tho is that industrial production (not even speaking of laboratory experimentation) is agonizingly centralized; if i had to set up FG production in bananistan, would prolly still be stuck sourcing resistors, and tearing out hair, like kurt tank in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-04#1839406
16:10	a111	Logged on 2018-08-04 14:14 asciilifeform: kurt tank tore out his hair, iirc 'they don't even know how to make machine screws'
16:11	asciilifeform	( usa is pretty far along this zimbabweization continuum, and definitely sliding as we speak, but it is still possible to get parts there in day or 2 , reliably. for nao... )
16:13	asciilifeform	the end of that road loox something like BingoBoingostan, where if you want to get something other than pile of goat shit or a 'samsung' lcd tv, gotta smuggle it past the border in anal pouches
16:21	mircea_popescu	just about.
16:21	mircea_popescu	in fact the us is pretty much there, it's just you don't live in "midwest".
16:21	asciilifeform	midwest ~= africa, just about, by nao, yes.
16:21	mircea_popescu	but yes, world of monkeys reverts to monkey world.
16:27	asciilifeform	some monkey reservations still sitting on result of 100+y of human activity; others -- not; is the only real diff.
16:29	asciilifeform	this goes even for the asian industrial titans. last i knew, chinese ic fabs still were using gear from siemens etc
16:29	asciilifeform	( the remnants of ru ic capability -- definitely known to. fughet even ic, even kalash in izhevsk made on german mills. )
16:31	mircea_popescu	ye olde hope of the "democratic" "paficist" panworldism : if nobody can as much as fart without involving ~everyone else, "world peace".
16:31	asciilifeform	well, s/everyone else/inca . but yes
16:32	mircea_popescu	very much a direct translation of "throwing the curve", ie, "if http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-16#1842058 then therefore prof MP can't flunk as all for not having had done the homework"
16:32	a111	Logged on 2018-08-16 16:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the probable "cause" for there not being sane dict for living langs, you realise, is that there IS such a thing as a cannonical body of greek, but "who is to say what anglovomit does not make the cut".
16:32	mircea_popescu	very much that and nothing at all else.
16:32	mircea_popescu	"if everything's uncomputably large then therefore i no longer have to be able to say 7 * 69 = 483 within a second or so"
16:33	asciilifeform	the red man, destroyed with firewater, ru indigenous ic factories -- with siemens gear, and pdp11. worked .
16:33	mircea_popescu	"why should anyone have to notice 69's but a 7 under 70"
16:35	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: you should try this 'riddle' on fresh off the boat usian gurlz, btw. i shit thee not, they dun teach the 'times table' nomoar
16:36	mircea_popescu	oh, i know.
16:36	mircea_popescu	how do you think i came up with it.
16:36	asciilifeform	lol suspected
16:39	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform i get to read, you realise, the A papers of contemporary valedictorians and whatnot. the incas' brightest and bravest, career women to the last soul and whatnot.
16:40	mircea_popescu	and what a sight it is.
16:40	BingoBoingo	lol
16:40	mircea_popescu	then idiots wanna talk about "what'd millionaires do with their time". certaintly, certainly not this, taking apart the heart of one's enemies so not on the list.
16:51	ben_vulpes	eyy, anyone want to guess what i found in the toothpaste?
16:52	mircea_popescu	an earring.
16:53	mircea_popescu	what, i guessed ?
16:54	ben_vulpes	triclosan!
16:55	mircea_popescu	heh.
16:56	mircea_popescu	try bilka. sounds lulzy, but it's ok bulgarian "homeopathic" producer.
16:57	ben_vulpes	"homeopathic"? almost but not quite exactly ersatz ersatz or what
16:57	mircea_popescu	find out just how well the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-20#1843161 pipe dream works.
16:57	a111	Logged on 2018-08-20 20:03 asciilifeform: the only reason i even use lulazon for anyffing, 'pay 80bux/y and the rest of the yr can order 3 m3 screws and two metres of #10 copper shipped sameday for 0 extra' etc
16:58	mircea_popescu	ben_vulpes this is how things go in lulzistan : "nutty" ideologies that survive do so because pick up the practical slack of soviet idiocy.
16:58	asciilifeform	lol seems like they stock the bulgarian thing!
16:58	mircea_popescu	hence mormons, "we belive in weird shit, bless our underwear ~~~AND DON'T TOLERATE ANNOYING WOMEN~~~".
16:58	mircea_popescu	hence whatever, orthodox jews, "we wear weird hair AND OUR FOODSTUFFS ARE EDIBLE"
16:59	mircea_popescu	this is where "homeopathic" ended up : "want some toothpaste without mint, sugar or fluoride ? aaaaaahahahah, here you go."
16:59	*	asciilifeform wonders what goes in 'homeopathic' toothpaste -- clostridium ?!
16:59	mircea_popescu	just normal toothpaste.
		↖
16:59	asciilifeform	why pitched as homeopathic then
16:59	mircea_popescu	it HAS to be "strange" and "weird", otherwise can't make it in the ocean of "woke" shit.
16:59	mircea_popescu	because reddit did it.
16:59	asciilifeform	aaa
17:00	mircea_popescu	this is at the heart of soviet survival -- "we call it this but really it does that" aka http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-01#1561507
17:00	a111	Logged on 2016-11-01 22:03 mircea_popescu: phf no, they just didn't have fish at the fish shop ; the meat they didn't have at the meat shop.
17:01	asciilifeform	lulzily i documented this in the past , in http://btcbase.org/log/2015-09-03#1260586 , http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-15#1406177
		↖
17:01	a111	Logged on 2015-09-03 01:37 asciilifeform: the other interesting thing is that the market is segmented in such a way that anyone who doesn't want mcfood ends up paying for ~all~ the alt-crackpotteries, not merely the logical ones
17:01	a111	Logged on 2016-02-15 17:58 asciilifeform: specifically how there is no place in usa where one can 'i will pay double for non-monsanto but i don't give a fuck about 'gmo' and i sure as fuck don't want to see homeopathic crud in the shop'
17:02	mircea_popescu	right.
17:02	mircea_popescu	if you think of it as a potentials map, suddenly it becomes evident : large cancerous accretion mass drives all other things closer together
17:03	mircea_popescu	"from outer space, paris right next to berlin"
17:03	asciilifeform	sometimes reaches riotous heights of lulz, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-26#935089
17:03	a111	Logged on 2014-11-26 04:23 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: at one point i needed some conductive cloth (the kind with silver strands) for an experiment. to my great surprise, i discovered that there is a large manufacturer in usa, and they do brisk business with folks suffering from precisely the kind of phobia described in decimation's link.
17:06	asciilifeform	for a laugh, look some time for spectrum analyzer on lulazon. will find 9000 'homeopathic' boxes for 'finding the cia mind control rays'.
		↖
17:06	mircea_popescu	you know those are actually a whole subculture ?
17:06	asciilifeform	( funnily enuff, at least a subset of these, ~are~ a kind of orcish spectral analyzer. but missing massive chunks of spectrum , 0 provision for external antennae , mostly display johnson noise )
17:07	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: no, i know, to my grief
17:07	mircea_popescu	stuff to do in the "den" for the sort of retard who can't figure out by looking whether charger cord reaches the socket or not, gotta try it out
17:07	asciilifeform	try an' buy any of a coupla basic things, and before you know it you're knee deep in the liquishit
17:10	asciilifeform	https://archive.is/l96tM << typical specimen.
17:11	asciilifeform	approx same 'analyzer' that you'd get simply by connecting a germanium diode across a hardware shop voltmeter.
17:11	mircea_popescu	generally the "intuitive" interface gives it away.
17:11	mircea_popescu	"push this button to detect" sorta lulzitems.
17:12	asciilifeform	aha, blinkenlights, 'guarantees', 3-4fig price, the lot.
17:12	mircea_popescu	kinda in the manner windows-only interface gvies away the george supran-style "scientists", the kind that researches community consensuses.
17:13	asciilifeform	sadly enuff i've personally used a $1mil mass spec with win95 on it
17:13	asciilifeform	you'd be disgusted if saw what runs typical 'pro' gear.
17:14	asciilifeform	( 1 time asciilifeform took such a piece of industrial gear, carefully stripped off the microshit, wrote replacement, and tried to sell as product... but this tale is in the l0gz somewhere )
17:16	asciilifeform	if i had known that the real problem is the win95 that runs in natotards' ~heads~, would have saved coupla yrs of life and be somewhat less poor nao...
17:20	trinque	poor guy. I had the good fortune to watch half a hardware startup get laid off at 16.
17:20	asciilifeform	lol why only half
17:20	trinque	(somehow... didn't can trinque)
17:21	asciilifeform	the rest boiled accordion and lived another month ?
17:21	trinque	asciilifeform: don't worry, other half had to get raped on stock options prior to subsequent sale
17:21	mircea_popescu	"pro" is not meaningful in and of itself.
17:21	asciilifeform	ha, made a sale. that's much farther than asciilifeform got..
17:21	trinque	sale for debt afaik, investors also fucked.
17:22	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform you'd be surprised what % of trumpeted "great soviet financial coups" are exactly of the substance and consistency of forum investors' victories.
17:23	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: afaik ~100%
17:23	asciilifeform	'groupon' et al.
17:23	mircea_popescu	rare exceptions, a la http://trilema.com/2014/lets-do-mark-cuban/ ; mostly from the early days of the chumpatron
17:23	mircea_popescu	back when the gaskets leaked.
17:24	asciilifeform	point upstack being, 100% of what i've touched with own hands of 'adult' heavy equip without microshit or systemd etc in it somewhere, was 1980s vintage or earlier.
17:26	asciilifeform	typically even these have a greybeard 'attached' to the thing, lovingly tends the msdos 5.0 on old scsi disk, etc
17:26	*	mircea_popescu believes
17:26	asciilifeform	then he retires and it goes to scrapyard, and replaced with 'modern', lol.
17:27	asciilifeform	the bolix item where subj was documented in l0gz in detail, was merely 1 example.
17:29	asciilifeform	dun even have to go far into 'exotica' to witness this. 1 slave galley had a spiffy $maxint automatic book digitizer, that was a paperweight for decade+ because lost its greybeard and the ancient crapple it was tethered to
17:30	asciilifeform	( 'it dept' carted away the 'obsolete' early-90s crapple, leaving the nao-useless scanner thing to sit sadly , occupying good chunk of a room )
17:32	mircea_popescu	don't use crapple.
17:32	asciilifeform	nao if somebody had seen it fit to tell the machine builder that !
17:33	mircea_popescu	mmyeah.
17:33	asciilifeform	( heavy gear, incidentally, typically ships with the tethered comp, as a set )
17:33	asciilifeform	the comp per se is tiny % of the bill.
17:33	mircea_popescu	right.
17:34	mircea_popescu	and slides in under the "who'd pull a stink over 0.85%"
17:34	asciilifeform	naturally. it's somewhere down with the table legs.
17:34	mircea_popescu	then you're stuck maintaining a whole "it department", the idiotic airs of "superiority" by the dweebs involved y compris, because gotta interface all that junk.
17:34	mircea_popescu	im so fucking sick of the 80s...
17:34	asciilifeform	90s
17:35	mircea_popescu	the 90s is when this shit ~mostly died.
17:35	asciilifeform	afaik in '80s the comp was responsibility of instrument man, no 'dept' yet.
17:35	mircea_popescu	it was an item continuously, since the days of chet tryina get 3 different shit packages to work by excruciating them on a wide wooden plank
17:35	mircea_popescu	all the way to typographic nonsense in the 80s, which is why crapple even exists today.
17:36	mircea_popescu	fuck all that shit, two generations of castrated morons thinking they have something to say to this world.
17:36	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: this was, believe , a u.s. army shitshow. and we had locking doors simply to separate the valuable gear from 'it dept'
17:36	mircea_popescu	where's that trilema piece with the "baby turtles would have eaten you for breakfast" thing
17:36	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the 'square holes' one
17:37	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/the-squares-and-the-holes/#selection-647.0-659.1
17:40	*	asciilifeform brb,meat
17:50	mircea_popescu	aty
		~ 1 hours 3 minutes ~
18:54	mircea_popescu	!!key kaniini
18:54	deedbot	Not registered.
18:54	mircea_popescu	kaniini you gonna get with the program or get lost ?
		~ 38 minutes ~
19:32	mircea_popescu	in other lulz, https://pleroma.dereferenced.org/
19:35	asciilifeform	dafuq's that
19:35	mircea_popescu	if i had to guess, perl.
19:35	asciilifeform	.erl
19:35	asciilifeform	nah, ... erlang
19:36	asciilifeform	http://erlang.org/doc/man/gen_server.html << for expert entomologist. subj.
19:36	asciilifeform	!#s erlang
19:36	a111	61 results for "erlang", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=erlang
19:36	mircea_popescu	who the fuck would want to compile every time a web hits
19:36	asciilifeform	dour swedish 1980s industrial item, with a very brief ameri-renaissance in 2000s
		↖
19:37	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: nobody, it's presumably bugola
19:38	asciilifeform	seealso old http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-30#1634747 , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-30#1634769, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-30#1634714 threads
19:38	a111	Logged on 2017-03-30 14:43 asciilifeform: anyway erlang is imho only worth discussing as part of a larger pattern -- industry after industry independently discovered that c -- and its entire approach to logic -- is poison
19:38	a111	Logged on 2017-03-30 14:50 asciilifeform: trinque: erlang wasn't simply about 'uptime', or even 'no pointer arithmetic', it also was the only case i know of where process migration actually worked
19:38	a111	Logged on 2017-03-30 14:38 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i will also nitpick : 'erlang' does not belong in the list, it was a 1980s product that worked quite well in its industrial niche (large telco switches) but was later stolen and used as a totem by the folx from yesterday's thread ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633873 )
19:40	mircea_popescu	mod6 can you spin me up a mp-wp instance on the shared item, see if we can counteract the illiterate part ?
19:52	mircea_popescu	and to continue the lulzparade, https://masstagger.com/
		~ 52 minutes ~
20:45	asciilifeform	'handy little tool here to identify potentially harmful users of the reddit community' << lol!!
20:45	asciilifeform	по просьбе трудящихся (tm)(r)
20:48	mircea_popescu	incidentally asciilifeform http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/JpZ5S/?raw=true
20:49	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: possibly
		~ 41 minutes ~
21:31	mod6	asciilifeform BingoBoingo : Can you guys address Mr. Popescu's request above here ^. I haven't the slightest idea on that stuff.
21:38	mod6	http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-20#1843060 << ack. looks good! thanks guys.
21:38	a111	Logged on 2018-08-20 17:58 asciilifeform: mod6: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/QK9Mg/?raw=true
21:39	*	mod6 goes to catch up on ze l0gz
		~ 43 minutes ~
22:22	BingoBoingo	Sure can do. Does she have an SSH pubkey?
		~ 15 minutes ~
22:38	mod6	Ok, so I think I can help with this here too -- as soon as we have an SSH key. There is a script to do at least the useradd part of this, which I can attempt to run with the given key.
22:39	mod6	Whomever the user is, must also be in the wot as part of the script requires that the executor to enter in a password for the user, then PGP encrypting that temporary password to the user in the WoT.
22:40	mod6	I'm not sure if this is all that is required to setup wpmp though. I'm going to guess not.
22:40	mod6	ben_vulpes: can you fill in the gaps here ^?
22:41	*	mod6 goes back to reading the log
		~ 40 minutes ~
23:22	BingoBoingo	In other mine finds, "Redactora Freelance" is a things n>=1 girl uses to describe her latina job
		~ 26 minutes ~
23:48	mod6	finally caught up here.

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