Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-06-12 | 2017-06-14 → ↓
00:13 BingoBoingo !!up Guest497
00:13 deedbot Guest497 voiced for 30 minutes.
~ 50 minutes ~
01:03 mircea_popescu and speaking of html : im currently very impressed with http://dragoneternity.com
01:03 mircea_popescu buncha russians made a flawless browser game, it's something else.
~ 49 minutes ~
01:53 diana_coman that dragoneternity game actually looks good
01:53 mircea_popescu considering the terror that working with browsers is in the first place, dudes are wizards.
02:03 diana_coman still: "latest Flash Player version is required for the client to function properly"
02:03 mircea_popescu myeah.
~ 3 hours 32 minutes ~
05:36 shinohai !~ticker --market all
05:36 jhvh1 shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2748.08, vol: 32981.09395675 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2690.001, vol: 14567.0408 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2666.6, vol: 48856.8198473 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2865.6474, vol: 25657.15940000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2743.689, vol: 10699.8473025 | Volume-weighted last average: 2734.08931823
05:45 sina https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/6gtrmd/freewalletorg_scam_millions_stolen/
05:49 shinohai Nah, funds are safe there. They store funds in a multi-signature cold storage with a bank level security grade!
05:52 sina bank level is the best security grade
05:53 shinohai This is obviously a step above - I'm willing to bet all passwords are secured with military grade encryption too, since they are so professional.
~ 1 hours 33 minutes ~
07:27 mircea_popescu shinohai mindboggling
07:32 shinohai ikr? I saw that item yesterday but didn't seem Qntrable to me as the "scam" appeared to be related to the Ethereum network self-DDoS.
07:32 mircea_popescu most wtf part is the notion those dorks actually had k's in btc
07:32 * mircea_popescu can't quite bring self to believe.
07:33 shinohai Well, if you don't have the private keys to an address to prove ownership, you really don't have anything at all, no matter how many imaginary numbers you are told you hold on a site.
07:34 * shinohai thinks the numbers are oft exaggerated on reddit to make the wheel squeakier .....
07:37 mircea_popescu must be
07:38 mircea_popescu typical half ounce a week "Drug dealer" gets robbed, thieves make away with 17k in cash and some cheap fake jewelry. "MULLIONS MISSING!!!"
07:38 mircea_popescu exactly how "drug busts" work, come to think of it.
07:38 mircea_popescu in case anyone still wanted indicia as to where the fish rotten from. it was the fucking "law enforcement".
07:41 shinohai Case in point: http://archive.is/fH2Hz - Where fentanyl you can buy all day in an DN market for $2-3 gram is suddenly worth $10k per
07:42 shinohai feeb maths
07:42 mircea_popescu a yeah, don't even remind me of the """major player""" silk road, that somehow was a big deal in spite of not being able to place one pound over xmas-new year's. TWO WEEKS!
07:43 mircea_popescu you can throw a rock in a la hotel and hit a waitress that's more of an "international drug market"
07:45 mircea_popescu if i were a judge i'd throw the book at this so-called "government" so help me. lie to me do one month in the can, no questions asked. so if it takes fifty da's it'll take fifty da's.
07:46 mircea_popescu given the current state of the rot i'd prolly convict 2/3 "law enforcement" 1/3 private citizens.
07:48 shinohai mircea_popescu will make America great again
07:48 mircea_popescu no he won't.
07:48 mircea_popescu i'd rather teach sheep torah.
07:49 shinohai lel
07:50 * shinohai found the commenter's name, SAM, to be suspect: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-13#1669434
07:50 a111 Logged on 2017-06-13 03:01 BingoBoingo: Questions http://qntra.net/2017/06/ethereum-blocks-way-the-fuck-too-big-smart-contract-ddosing-own-initial-coin-offering-to-blame/#comment-101819
07:50 mircea_popescu ya think ?
~ 2 hours ~
09:50 mod6 mornin'
09:51 mircea_popescu heya
09:53 shinohai Mornin mod6 ... anything cool brewing in your lab?
09:54 mod6 Mornin' shinohai
09:54 mod6 peted sent his getpeerinfo vpatch to the ML. so that's out there.
09:54 mircea_popescu o hey.
09:55 mod6 and I started working on ticket #36 for trb, possible move of the deps folder for trb
09:55 mod6 i got it to work lastnight, but im not satisfied with it yet.
09:56 shinohai That reminds me ....
09:57 shinohai !~later tell pete_dushenski Tested your patch, built fine, running on the dev box as I write this.
09:57 jhvh1 shinohai: The operation succeeded.
09:57 mod6 cool, thanks for the testing shinohai
09:58 shinohai np, glad to help and love to see trb progressing and more peeps contributing.
09:58 mod6 indeed!
~ 58 minutes ~
10:57 mircea_popescu asciilifeform very funny that jew thing you dug out. literally, the ENTIRE argument is "hey, let us scam you, because that's what goverments do, and if the goyim see us scamming you they'll believe w r government".
↖
10:57 mircea_popescu how statists actually manage to live in their mental latrine is anyone's guess.
10:57 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aha, is why i posted it
10:58 mircea_popescu entertainment value well worth teh read.
10:59 asciilifeform the altalena thing still , i'm told, smoulders, there are folx who have not forgotten the replacement of terrorist-republic-israel with usg-alt-israel
10:59 mircea_popescu myeah
11:02 asciilifeform ( hey adlai !! whaddayathink )
11:02 mircea_popescu da fuck is some shithead 20something going to think.
11:03 asciilifeform dunno, but he's marched under the colours, and asciilifeform has not, so automatically 'gotta ask'
11:03 mircea_popescu nonsense.
11:03 mircea_popescu might as well ask the kfc colonel his professional opinion re fort sumter.
11:13 shinohai http://archive.is/cWlpR <<< By Gavin logic, moar ETH nodes = good while less BTC nodes = A OK
11:13 mircea_popescu he's in feeder phase.
11:13 asciilifeform wassat
11:14 mircea_popescu the hanno boecks always work in the same cycle. feeder phase where they "seem reasonable" and chumpatron phase where they shed the half-hour-horizon idiots who bought it.
↖
11:15 mircea_popescu the ur-model of this is "modern" ourdemocracy currency. while they can falsify it, YOU can't. this means they can prop its value up for as long as it takes for idiot-you to buy into the theory that "usd is actually valuable", after which they can turn on the printing.
11:16 mircea_popescu which is why "eth has market value". the entire market value of ethereum (all chains) is under a grand. but the lizards will keep buying it, for all the fiddy bux a week that costs, to prop up the pretense. if it catches, they got "millionz" and if not they're out five coffees for a dozen losers who were getting that coffee off social security anyway.
11:17 mircea_popescu and this model ENTIRELY explains all of the "luminaries". werner koch worked the feeder-chumper cycle. stallman worked the feeder-chumper cycle. curtis yarvin worked the etcetera.
↖
11:19 asciilifeform where's the cut between 'worked cycle' and 'turned traitor' ?
11:19 asciilifeform 'worked' seems to imply cynical fraud from t=0
11:19 mircea_popescu cycle, definitionally, is multiple iterations.
11:19 mircea_popescu gavin worked btc, got kicked out, is now working eth, etcetera.
11:19 asciilifeform aah
11:21 mircea_popescu the fiat word is "serial entrepreneur" or whatever.
11:21 asciilifeform rms afaik is not a serial anything, had exactly 1 thing
11:22 mircea_popescu and that was emacs ?
11:22 asciilifeform lolno
11:22 mircea_popescu well ?
11:22 mircea_popescu 2 things.
11:22 asciilifeform ( emacs pre-dates rms )
11:22 asciilifeform hurd.
11:22 mircea_popescu but he worked the cycle on emacs first.
11:23 mircea_popescu then he worked it on software, and THEN he worked it on hardware.
11:23 * mircea_popescu still can't forget the "i have a laptop that doesn't exist" bs.
11:23 mircea_popescu "so where is it" "they stole it"
11:23 asciilifeform not sure if that one can be pinned on rms per se -- he was already in his ambulatory mushroom phase at that point
11:23 mircea_popescu get some crayons and color me shades of impressed.
11:25 shinohai In other democracy news: http://archive.is/3wCQw
~ 30 minutes ~
11:56 asciilifeform meanwhile, in other excavations, https://www.security.nl/posting/505769/Random+Bit+Generator+voor+zelfbouw >> 'Het ontwerp is volledig open source, het geleverde product is te verifiëren zodat je kunt zien dat er niets is toegevoegd of weggelaten, de randomization is wiskundig verifieerbaar. Er zijn drivers voor eigenlijk alle gangbare operating systems, zelfs voor OpenBSD, en dat voor een prijs van USD 40. Die onderbouwing zie ik n
11:56 asciilifeform iet bij nosuchlabs. En nee, er is totaal geen sprake van meer spreekwoordelijk alufolie, integendeel. Geen drivers, aansluiting via een niet meer aanwezig medium (seriele poort), beperkte hoeveelheid random data en ga zo maar door.'
11:57 asciilifeform ^ d00d pushing 'onerng' over FUCKGOATS, with argument that the former 'is open source, mathematically verifiable, ...drivers for all current os, even openbsd...' while the latter 'no drivers, connection using obsolete medium - serial port, limited entropy'
11:57 mircea_popescu ...
11:58 mircea_popescu isn't "onerng" the thing captain bullshit was pushing in that dumb chan ?
11:58 asciilifeform one of'em yes
11:58 mircea_popescu how did that quote abnout a confederacy of dounces go
12:02 asciilifeform nfi
12:03 asciilifeform linked mainly for the 'drivers' lul
12:04 mircea_popescu "you can always recognize a fuckgoats by that sure sign, that all the dounces in the county are arrayed in a confederacy against it."
12:04 asciilifeform aah yes.
12:05 mircea_popescu and here i sat and thought naively that open source is all about "hey, i perceive the need for these so called drivers, item dun has them, I WILL MAKE MYSELF"
12:05 asciilifeform gotta luvvv all the nitwits who think that pc has any business being able to talk TO an rng box
12:05 mircea_popescu isn't THAT what the douche was supposed to publish on his stupid blog ?
12:05 asciilifeform ( which is what connecting via non-unidirectional interface entails )
12:07 mircea_popescu but no, instead every two bit twentysomething shithead importantly sits on an imagined throne and JUDGES THE WORLD!!11
12:07 mircea_popescu rather than try and fix it, and in the process learn a thing or two about just how utterly fucktarded they are.
12:07 mircea_popescu go, write fg drivers. what
12:07 mircea_popescu thje everloving fuck will they do ?
12:07 asciilifeform better still, to read the docs and think for 30sec and realize that THING USES NO DRIVER
12:08 mircea_popescu no but all the peripheral boxes he ever saw had the bullet point there.
12:08 mircea_popescu anywya, maybe we can talk diana_coman into borrowing us a manager class.
12:08 mircea_popescu better than driver.
12:08 asciilifeform wassat
12:08 mircea_popescu which one
12:09 asciilifeform managerclass
12:09 mircea_popescu i have no fucking idea.
12:09 asciilifeform aaah a burbulator
12:09 mircea_popescu but everything has a bunch of them so
12:09 asciilifeform ( http://btcbase.org/log/2016-06-19#1485129 )
12:09 a111 Logged on 2016-06-19 05:35 asciilifeform: the next morning, commander tours the base, says to sergeant: 'everything seems ok, but what is this nonsense, they showed me the scrapyard and your men threw out a perfectly fine burbulator!!!'
12:11 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> might as well ask the kfc colonel his professional opinion re fort sumter. << "Lincoln was a war criminal" is the response I got
12:11 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: iirc we had a thread even here where somebody whined that FG doesn't work as a 'totem' where you 'plug in and forget and it just becomes your /dev/random' and that it has to be actively ~used~
↖
12:12 mircea_popescu it's still not clear to me dumping it into the pool is a bad move.
12:12 mircea_popescu seeing how the alternative is koch-hashes.
12:12 asciilifeform it isn't that it is necessarily bad move
12:12 mircea_popescu i suppose "driver" in context might mean a kernel patch to feed /random from fg
12:13 asciilifeform but that the ~correct~ move is proggy that takes a /dev/foo1,/dev/foo2... as command line params and eats rng from ~there~
12:13 mircea_popescu yes but they already got their userland, and it's a) shit and b) unrecompilable.
12:14 asciilifeform 'need to know principle', if you will -- kernel has no business having centralized 'and these here are rngs'
12:14 asciilifeform not to mention a proggy that eats rng oughta be periodically tested using ~known~ bits
12:14 asciilifeform to see if the expected output results
12:14 asciilifeform ( known-and-previously-untried )
12:14 mircea_popescu yes. the idea being that your methiod while correct requires fixing all the shit programs. which ain't gonan happen. nor can it.
12:15 mircea_popescu whereas just feeding it into the kernel pool might help to some degree and is actually feasible.
12:15 asciilifeform cat /dev/yourfg > /dev/random &
12:15 mircea_popescu basically it's the eternal culture shock. "i protest that this tmsr item is ideologically incompatible with the shitempire i inhabit" "blow it out your ass" "TERRORISM!"
12:18 asciilifeform ( incidentally astute students of FUCKGOATSology will notice that the principle is applied INSIDE the device as well - FG has nfi what is plugged into rng jacks, actual analogue rng boards or tester jig )
12:28 asciilifeform relatedly, at one point i considered a FG add-on that'd turn it into a ps/2 'keyboard' eternally pissing out, e.g., d0bc05f466024f14... which, e.g., xxd will happily eat & turn into binariola
12:29 shinohai Ledger branching out to pgptronics: https://github.com/LedgerHQ/blue-app-openpgp-card
12:29 asciilifeform keyboardization gives even greater 'nonspecificity of diddling', at the cost of 'can't have it plugged in 24/7, must use in bursts' ( as most os don't work with >1 kbd correctly )
12:30 asciilifeform shinohai: add to the loooong list of 'tardanos'
12:36 shinohai Quite
~ 17 minutes ~
12:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the koch episode was actually illustrative of the futility of 'just fix /dev/random'. it'd have done ~zero~ against the koch rng poisoning thing.
12:54 asciilifeform if you can't recompile ( or better still, use sane proggy ) you're fucked, there is no pill.
12:55 mircea_popescu yup
12:56 mircea_popescu there's a reason the "security.nl" maggots say what they say.
12:56 mircea_popescu "use these things thatr won't do anything"
12:56 mircea_popescu "they're...easier!"
~ 1 hours 9 minutes ~
14:06 mod6 <+asciilifeform> ^ d00d pushing 'onerng' over FUCKGOATS, with argument that the former 'is open source, mathematically verifiable, ...drivers for all current os, even openbsd...' while the latter 'no drivers, connection using obsolete medium - serial port, limited entropy' << limited entropy?! herp.
14:07 mod6 these cows just don't care they they have an NSA fist in their asses. never did, never will.
14:08 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7BD81DECC6EBEB3D6B64A8BB042AF3DEBE41F28F7BC5DD0CC2768C84A5297453 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1568...0739 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '94.156.19.254 (ssh-rsa key from 94.156.19.254 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (nagios2.telecablenet.com. BG 13)
14:08 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/7BD81DECC6EBEB3D6B64A8BB042AF3DEBE41F28F7BC5DD0CC2768C84A5297453 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1792...6587 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '94.156.19.254 (ssh-rsa key from 94.156.19.254 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (nagios2.telecablenet.com. BG 13)
14:09 mod6 "m00" "oh your butt hurts" "m00!" "maybe get that fist out of your ass..." "n000!"
14:16 asciilifeform mod6: elementarily, 'limited entropy', 'respectable mainstream' turd can put out whatever it wants, GB/s, of prng
14:16 asciilifeform 'whitening'
14:16 asciilifeform ( why to bother with hardware, if resorting to prng , remains a mystery )
14:17 mod6 m0001
14:17 asciilifeform whereas harvesting actual entropy is painful, esp. if you want an engineering margin ( e.g. 2x in FG )
14:18 asciilifeform 2x temporal, that is. on top of 4x spatial.
14:18 asciilifeform ( each analogue board has 2 independent subunits, see schematic )
14:20 asciilifeform mod6: you will notice that no fg hits >8kB/s at room temp, while the theoretical max is 14.4kB
14:20 mod6 sure.
14:23 asciilifeform there simply ain't moar to be had ( safely, that is -- you can use a faster-slewing op amp, in this collection scheme, but you will be harvesting power supply artifacts, 'voice of america', switching transients.. )
14:24 asciilifeform all 'electric' schemes for trng have the basic problem of 'breathing own fumes'.
14:26 asciilifeform von neumann's debias algo, and xor fold, are the two legit methods of dealing with this, but they have considerable cost ( each application of either , burns away 50% of incoming bits )
14:26 mod6 then that's what it is.
14:26 mod6 fuck 'em
14:27 asciilifeform ( part of the appeal of 'atomic' trng is that the 'fumes' concern evaporates. )
14:30 asciilifeform !$ssh 94.156.19.254
14:30 scriba ssh banner of 94.156.19.254 as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.7p1 Debian-8ubuntu1
14:30 asciilifeform aw
14:31 mod6 one of these times you're gonna pop it
14:31 asciilifeform which it
14:31 mod6 what does that ssh thing do?
14:32 asciilifeform mod6: spits out the banner that Framedragger forgot to put in the original conversions
14:32 mod6 oh
14:32 mod6 ok
~ 59 minutes ~
15:31 mircea_popescu so how's tricks in mod6 castle
15:35 mod6 sweet
15:35 mircea_popescu glad to hear
15:37 mod6 gathering some things up in eulora.
15:37 mod6 having fun with that.
15:39 mircea_popescu ah i saw lel. how long has it been for you, 2 years now ?
15:44 mod6 na, not quite that long. it ~has~ been at least since xmas or so since I popped in last tho.
15:45 mod6 this whole year has been nuts. i feel like im constantly behind. all that stuff with my mom just sucked up so much time.
15:45 mircea_popescu ah
15:45 mircea_popescu yeah can rtake it out of one
15:52 mod6 ya for sure
~ 1 hours 34 minutes ~
17:27 jurov asciilifeform: sorry to be shitharbinger, just writing to /dev/random is not enough https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/141197/why-writing-to-dev-random-does-not-make-parallel-reading-from-dev-random-faste
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17:27 jurov it needs "yes i am sure" ioctl
17:27 asciilifeform lol!
17:28 mircea_popescu ah that's right isn't it
17:28 asciilifeform motherfucking kochs.
17:28 mircea_popescu heh
~ 22 minutes ~
17:51 BingoBoingo Best Korea get it's own huffing currency siphon http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2017/06/13/dennis-rodman-returns-north-korea/
17:54 mircea_popescu it's !??!?!?!
18:08 BingoBoingo FUCK, no way to fix in lawg
18:08 mircea_popescu lol
18:09 mircea_popescu you gotta sit and meditate, it's getting ridoinculous
18:09 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
18:09 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2700.35, vol: 17108.73242076 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2663.11, vol: 6150.18051 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2694.2, vol: 24703.98366288 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2827.998971, vol: 10709.68020000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2704.2, vol: 7649.42853527 | Volume-weighted last average: 2715.66268137
~ 26 minutes ~
18:35 asciilifeform in other 3-years-and-continuing lulz, https://archive.is/kGc6w >> '...I've been trying to build these style tools for around 10 years, on and off, and they have never built correctly for these targets and any attempt to put in a bug report about it is a waste of time as someone comes along states it works and closes it, even though it doesn't.'
18:35 mircea_popescu open sores.
18:36 asciilifeform it will have to be confiscated from the monkeys, like trb was.
18:36 asciilifeform asciilifeform has stabbed on and off at the problem, for a very long time.
18:36 mircea_popescu by now, pretty much foregone conclusion. if we need it, they can't have it.
18:37 asciilifeform end result is to be a vaguely msdos-like thing that understands how to configure x64 page table, put/get blocks of disk, and speak over rs232 port. and on top of this, a self-building gnat.
↖ ↖ ↖
18:37 asciilifeform but this is yet far.
18:38 mircea_popescu in general, seems dos model is the winner. i dunno wtf unix is even supposed to be, honestly.
18:38 asciilifeform single-tasking, grim wartime thing.
18:38 mircea_popescu on preponderence of evidence seems rather 1950s equivalent of historical "craftsman secrets" bs.
18:38 asciilifeform nothing like what asciilifeform wanted, decade ago, to spend his life making.
18:38 mircea_popescu ie, low level labour strife, "how to make capitalist incapable of using his own capital goods without feeding us"
18:38 asciilifeform but it will have to be made.
18:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform how did yo9u want to spend life decade ago ?
18:39 asciilifeform lispm
18:40 mircea_popescu ah. yea.
18:40 mircea_popescu there's no absolute reason most of the dos thing can;t actually be lisp
18:40 asciilifeform inadequate iron.
18:41 mircea_popescu yes, but so far i am rather impressed with the demonstrated interop.
18:41 asciilifeform which interop
18:41 asciilifeform ah
18:41 mircea_popescu say between whatever phf runs log on and the log itself ; or whatever ben_vulpes runs the bot on and so forth
18:42 mircea_popescu they didn't turn into very sad shriveled raisins of pain for trying.
18:42 asciilifeform problem is that a language with nonhardrealtime gc is unsuitable for cryptography.
18:42 asciilifeform 0 way to guarantee constant-time-anything
18:42 asciilifeform or to police branch-on-secrets
18:42 mircea_popescu this is shapinbg up to be the achile's heel for lisp huh
18:42 asciilifeform on c-machine -- yes.
18:42 asciilifeform sorta why asciilifeform has written 0 lisp for 3+ yrs
18:43 asciilifeform well, ~0
18:46 asciilifeform at any rate at this point imho it is obvious that the confiscation of computing from the enemy cannot proceed on linux.
18:46 mircea_popescu i am persuaded.
18:46 asciilifeform or bsd.
18:46 mircea_popescu unixanything.
18:46 asciilifeform aaaha.
18:47 mircea_popescu the reasons are plurious, there's not jhust this line
18:47 mircea_popescu there's also the "bunch of retards who think themselves competent and will wish to '''help'''" as per older threads re flies.
18:47 mircea_popescu and others.
18:47 asciilifeform the reasons, at this point, are not a mega-secret to anyone here.
18:47 asciilifeform for the 'helpers' -- the sharp end of a trench shovel.
18:52 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> unixanything. << ditto
18:52 asciilifeform re os : i've observed before , that the only peripheral that unconditionally ~must~ work, is rs232 port.
18:52 asciilifeform everything else, even disk, is optional frill.
18:52 mircea_popescu the model is fundamentally broken. you do not actually want a multi-user machine, ever, period.
18:52 mod6 yeah. back to dos-like sys
18:52 asciilifeform it is possible to accomplish useful work on a box where only cpu, memory, and serial ports, work.
18:52 mircea_popescu it's a stupid thing, like a multi-driver-wheel bus.
18:52 mod6 haha
18:53 mircea_popescu "instead of making ten cars we made this bus with ten driver seats. talk it out among yourselves. there's bulletproof glass in some parts."
18:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it'd even not be wholly ludicrous to have 1 doslike thing per cpu core, and a standardized means whereby master (of which there is to be ONE) can drive the slaves
18:53 asciilifeform but beyond this - nothing.
18:53 mircea_popescu asciilifeform in an ideal world we just hijack intel management engine to do that job.
18:54 asciilifeform no need for any such thing, conventional pc arch is quite enough.
18:54 mircea_popescu no need maybe, but it's what you get lel
18:54 asciilifeform ( to carry on N independent instruction streams )
18:55 asciilifeform the other bit, is that we are picturing a box without a nic. ( it may come equipped with one, but it dun get plugged in )
18:55 mircea_popescu no, no, nick over port!
18:55 asciilifeform strictly serial. if you want to speak via a nic, that goes on 2nd box
18:56 mircea_popescu the chineze had it.
18:56 asciilifeform the 'nic can dma, haha' thing evaporates.
18:56 asciilifeform nic sits on 2nd box, and if it gets 'magic packet', the most that enemy gains is the contents of the buffer kept there.
18:57 asciilifeform at any rate this is a pretty obvious scheme.
18:57 asciilifeform merely cumbersome. but if contemplating a return to 'msdos with bigger addr space', it is also fitting to discuss other cumbersomes.
18:58 asciilifeform ( and any such return entails a 'from whence the drivers', for which the magic pill is... we haven't any. rs232, motherfuckers. )
18:58 mircea_popescu the experience with making / using the fg turns out most useful, really.
18:58 mircea_popescu both in terms of exposing the idiocy of the enemy in very specific terms, and in terms of providing solutions to teh problems.
19:00 mircea_popescu whaack stop fucking around join/parting and nicking already.
19:00 asciilifeform mauser first, questions later!111
19:01 mircea_popescu fucking lazy to op self.
19:01 asciilifeform lol
19:03 asciilifeform incidentally, a dick^H^Hsk-less pc makes for another interesting feature, a known-starting-state.
19:04 asciilifeform ( i had a pogo going like this for a while )
19:04 asciilifeform it asks 'gimme a running state plox' via the talking port on warmup. and then runs.
19:06 asciilifeform ( i.e. disk can be a tele-operated item in exactly same way as nic. )
19:13 asciilifeform >> http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/lBzDS/?raw=true << from the archives of asciilifeform : simple c example of The Only Driver
↖
19:13 asciilifeform ( worx on all known pc chipsets, incl. mircea_popescu's 286. )
19:14 asciilifeform tested on, e.g., 'pcengines apu1'
19:14 asciilifeform a number of other opterons also.
19:14 asciilifeform ancient intel boxes from scrapyard.
19:14 asciilifeform and many, many boat anchors.
19:15 asciilifeform ^ n00bs : don't try to build an' run on a unix, it won't wurk.
19:21 ben_vulpes this promises to be fun
19:22 ben_vulpes but proposed is not to exhume dos but run an ada os thinger?
19:22 mircea_popescu historical dos is only a very general design model
19:23 mircea_popescu to illustrate teh point
19:23 * ben_vulpes nods
19:23 * mircea_popescu is not very keen for eg on "tsr" insta-kerne-patch-from-userland bs
19:24 asciilifeform rom kernel.
19:24 asciilifeform ( nao if only one could actually execute anything at all from rom on modern x86 !! )
19:24 asciilifeform but can still write ~as if for~ rom.
~ 43 minutes ~
20:08 shinohai !~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/QCtCP/?raw=true
20:08 jhvh1 shinohai: The operation succeeded.
~ 39 minutes ~
20:47 mircea_popescu !!up phillipsjk
20:47 deedbot phillipsjk voiced for 30 minutes.
20:48 phillipsjk changed channels, I see.
20:48 mircea_popescu !!key phillipsjk
20:48 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/EB149E5BF80C1F2D3EBE0A2FB3DE81FF7B9D5160.asc
20:50 mircea_popescu phillipsjk who might you be then ?
20:52 phillipsjk I am the one with the horrible resume.
20:52 mircea_popescu ahahaha o really ?
20:53 phillipsjk maybe I can find it in the logs...
20:54 mircea_popescu use the search!
20:56 mircea_popescu !#s phillipsjk
20:56 a111 149 results for "phillipsjk", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=phillipsjk
20:57 phillipsjk http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-06#1009384
20:57 a111 Logged on 2015-02-06 00:00 mircea_popescu: "this is, without a doubt, the worst resume i have ever seen."
20:58 mircea_popescu lol. so did you fix it ?
20:59 phillipsjk Thought you might be interested to know that transaction fees are finally having an effect.
20:59 phillipsjk mircea_popescu, not yet.
20:59 mircea_popescu well there's time.
20:59 mircea_popescu phillipsjk oh they are ? thanks for letting me know!1
21:00 mircea_popescu at first, when i received your letter, i at once said : surely, transaction fees are having an effect.
21:01 mircea_popescu but then, like a doubt occured to me. what if transaction fees aren't having an effect after all ?
21:01 phillipsjk On june 8th, Kraken sent out an e-mail saying that Bitcoin withdrawal fees would rise to 0.0025 XBT
21:01 mircea_popescu but then at once i told myself -- no, transaction fees are definitely having an effect!
21:02 phillipsjk Then on june 10th, they sent a follow-up email, saying in part:
21:03 phillipsjk "Many clients have said they prefer a lower bitcoin withdrawal fee even if it means slower transactions. Accordingly, we are now sending withdrawals together in batches to reduce cost. This allows us to reduce the bitcoin withdrawal fee to: 0.001 XBT"
21:03 mircea_popescu "the price of two strings tied to one can goes up to bla bla" ?
21:03 mircea_popescu ah i see.
21:04 mircea_popescu this makes exactly absolutely no sense whatsoever. fees are per byte.
21:06 phillipsjk Presumably transactions with many outputs are more efficient than dual input/output transactions. They may be able to eliminate an arbitrary number of round trips through their hot wallet as well.
21:08 mircea_popescu yeah, from 25 to 1, ie 95%
21:09 mircea_popescu i've been sitting here trying to recall which irrelevant scam "exchange" kraken is, can't really come up with much. was in the one the tradehills scammers made in their doomed but cheeky attempt to "come back" the usual coupla years later ? or was the one named after a pirate-era mpoe-pr post ?
21:09 mircea_popescu history will never know. but anyway.
21:09 phillipsjk I found the concept of V interesting. I worry it may have hidden fragility though. I may port it to BSD when I have time.
21:10 phillipsjk mircea_popescu, they bought up CAvirtex, that is why I am getting e-mail.
21:10 mircea_popescu well, just as soon as you can be specific re that fragility, i'm, all ears.
21:11 phillipsjk You model assumes that people are able to review the code. It may not scale to large code-bases.
21:11 mircea_popescu what large code bases ?
21:12 phillipsjk That may be an orthogonal problem though.
21:13 phillipsjk Your solution in the logs is to replace unix with DOS to avoid that problem.
21:13 mircea_popescu moreover, it'd seem on the first pass that the "possible hidden fragility" of disallowing "large codebases" aka piles of crap nobody's ever read is preferable to the VERY LOUDLY OBVIOUS vulnerability of running black boxes
21:13 mircea_popescu today's dos discussion is entirely unrelated to this.
21:13 phillipsjk I believe code should be proven correct, so that abstraction leakage does not bite you in the ass.
21:14 mircea_popescu o ? and how do you prove large code bases correct ?
21:14 phillipsjk You prove the interface matches the documentation. repeat all the way up the stack.
21:15 mircea_popescu please tell me this "proven correct" isn't just anotgher idle handwave, "let that wizard over there do it"
21:15 mircea_popescu phillipsjk do you have handy a graph depicting the relation between x and e^x ?
21:16 mircea_popescu if people can't review the code nobody's proving anything. ever.
21:17 phillipsjk That is why I said the concern may be orthogonal. Lost keys are a concern.
21:18 asciilifeform lost key ~= death
21:18 mircea_popescu what lost keys ?
21:18 asciilifeform and is as it should be.
21:18 asciilifeform !!up phillipsjk
21:18 deedbot phillipsjk voiced for 30 minutes.
21:18 mircea_popescu asciilifeform aww i was gonna check this lost key thing
21:18 mircea_popescu !!gettrust deedbot phillipsjk
21:18 deedbot L1: 0, L2: 0 by 2 connections.
21:19 mircea_popescu 0 by 2 eh ?
21:19 mircea_popescu !#s "rate phillipsjk"
21:19 a111 1 result for "\"rate phillipsjk\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22rate%20phillipsjk%22
21:19 shinohai lol
21:20 mircea_popescu mmm am i doing this baxwards ?
21:20 mircea_popescu !!gettrust phillipsjk deedbot
21:20 deedbot L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
21:20 phillipsjk I think it would be useful to be be able to resign patches after running a computer-assisted proof checker )or just test cases) against them.
21:20 mircea_popescu trinque can you explain wtf this is ?
21:20 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-05#1008139
21:20 a111 Logged on 2015-02-05 07:37 danielpbarron: !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.phillipsjk.-1:162b44943bc0180c83a6648fa5aaaa3cbbeb78a4506a70bcbddccf8766452878
21:20 asciilifeform what it is, is the bug where nonpublic ~rates are permitted.
21:20 phillipsjk However that may be out-of-scope for what V is supposed to do.
21:21 mircea_popescu phillipsjk oh, the "wizard does it" thing emerges yes ? tell you what, loading up a label maker you put a "computer" label on with "correctes check passed" labes does nothing useful for everyone.
21:21 mircea_popescu stop "thinking" like that, it's not thought and it's not socially acceptable in adult males, either.
21:21 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it should still see mine.
21:21 mircea_popescu or wtf. /me goes to read.
21:22 asciilifeform http://wot.deedbot.org/EB149E5BF80C1F2D3EBE0A2FB3DE81FF7B9D5160.html << seems to work there
21:22 mircea_popescu oh oh oh i see, 1 from me -one from daniel ok, i got confused. sorry trinque nothing unusal here.
21:23 mircea_popescu phillipsjk what's keeping you from re-signing anyway ?
21:23 phillipsjk wizard as in wise person yes. Last estimate I saw said about 160 people are do the work world-wide (mainly for the US military). (they want to know war-only weapon modes will actually work as intended)
21:23 mircea_popescu no, "computer assisted proof checker" is jsut another way to say "i wave it before my cat and see if it mews".
21:24 asciilifeform phillipsjk: i was one of these people, for a spell, hi.
21:24 phillipsjk mircea_popescu, you have to re-review the code, do you not?
21:24 trinque !!reputation phillipsjk
21:24 deedbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/XjSzS/?raw=true
21:24 trinque ^ handy
21:24 mircea_popescu the "assisted" part simply signifies trhat the lazy operator intends to not do any work and still pretend like he has something to say.
21:24 asciilifeform phillipsjk: i hate to disappoint but : it's astrology.
21:24 mircea_popescu you have to READ the code. multiple times. multiple. many many times.
21:24 mircea_popescu HUNDREDS OF TIMES.
21:25 asciilifeform not to say that there isn't a handful of very narrowly useful 'proof' mechanisms -- some of them appear in, e.g., ada's Spark
21:25 asciilifeform but they are not a replacement for Fits In Head
21:26 asciilifeform and certainly not a mechanized path to 'spec guaranteed to fit the proggy'
21:26 trinque one sec. phillipsjk wasn't your resume about washing dishes and something volunteer pirate ?
21:27 phillipsjk pretty much.
21:27 trinque k
21:28 mircea_popescu phillipsjk so how has teh interval treated you ?
21:28 phillipsjk well, I guess I am out for the night.
21:28 shinohai Those dishes won't wash themselves.
21:28 asciilifeform nooo, i wanna hear about how v is 'fragile'!!1
21:28 mircea_popescu laters.
21:28 mircea_popescu danielpbarron do you recall why you negrated the dood ?
21:29 phillipsjk mircea_popescu, ran out of money for my Bitcoin node. doing back-taxes should help.
21:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform give the man some toime, eh, he said might be, and so on.
21:29 asciilifeform aite.
21:30 asciilifeform twist : phillipsjk is the illustrious xiah lee
21:30 asciilifeform ( d00d was last seen working as dish washer )
21:30 mircea_popescu on the internet no one knows you're a xiah lee!
21:31 asciilifeform err, xah lee
21:31 mircea_popescu phillipsjk i have nfi what that's supposed to mean, if you care. what back taxes and how does it help ?!
21:32 phillipsjk I make little enough money that the government tops me up a bit if I actually file.
21:32 mircea_popescu ah
21:32 mircea_popescu that... doesn't sound too happy.
21:33 phillipsjk even with Bitcoin appreciation
21:33 mircea_popescu in other lulz, bitcent > blowjob nao.
21:47 asciilifeform what's an ansi std. blowjob equal to ?
21:47 asciilifeform ( iso ? )
~ 34 minutes ~
22:22 mircea_popescu asciilifeform back alley girl squatting ?
22:34 danielpbarron mircea_popescu> danielpbarron do you recall why you negrated the dood ? << no i do not
22:34 danielpbarron !!v 1B5E2D36528BED0978D79E31C9C406CFC7677431A5B92E7BDD304915529A7907
22:34 deedbot danielpbarron unrated phillipsjk.
22:46 mircea_popescu meanwhile http://68.media.tumblr.com/15e339af5045b6bc9365f154377b454a/tumblr_onf1s41lRT1w30roao1_1280.jpg
22:59 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> "the price of two strings tied to one can goes up to bla bla" ? << Nah, this is rising cost of tin solder driving higher price of toucans
23:00 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> i've been sitting here trying to recall which irrelevant scam "exchange" kraken is, can't really come up with much. was in the one the tradehills scammers made in their doomed but cheeky attempt to "come back" the usual coupla years later ? or was the one named after a pirate-era mpoe-pr post ? << The USG created "Goxcatcher" created mostly to have a place to receive the legal effigy of MtGox
23:00 mircea_popescu ah
23:01 BingoBoingo <phillipsjk> I found the concept of V interesting. I worry it may have hidden fragility though. I may port it to BSD when I have time. << Already works on any OS with a runtime for a language V is implemented in. Can run on OS/2 Warp
23:01 asciilifeform speaking of, lulzy how they 'freed' karpeles so that he can help 'establish precedent' re 'we owed btc but will repay in usd per ancient exchange rate'
23:02 mircea_popescu hey, fatass did nothing wrong!
23:02 asciilifeform 'only following orders'
23:02 mircea_popescu he can gang together with shrem and come with some "proposal"
23:03 asciilifeform already did, possibly. subj : https://archive.is/WnxWG
23:03 mircea_popescu i can't be bothered.
23:03 mircea_popescu whole menagerie of early losers isn't worth the kako it's printed on.
23:04 asciilifeform '...bitcoin claims are pegged at an exchange rate of one bitcoin to $485.50, the price the day before Gox declared bankruptcy, by order of a Japanese court. ' didjaknow.
23:04 asciilifeform 'It’s a far cry from the man who controlled the center of the bitcoin economy just four years ago. “I’m working on quite a few projects,” he says. “But hey, got to make a living.”' didjaalsoknow.
23:04 mircea_popescu i had nfi japan abandoned they en
23:05 mircea_popescu the yen*
23:05 mircea_popescu controled my pubic hair jesus.
23:05 asciilifeform jp enmouthed the cock long, long ago
23:05 asciilifeform in '45.
23:05 mircea_popescu where i come from it's not even legal for a court to make orders re foreign currencies.
23:07 mircea_popescu but that technicality aside, you can fully expect a "court" of the fiat type to judge that "it's not fair" to have to repay THE THGING YOU STOLE. because "unjust enrichment" something something they're all stupid and ugly and their mothers should be ashamed of themselves.
23:07 BingoBoingo ty shinohai, punched it up a little for historicity's sake
23:09 mircea_popescu ahahaha coinbase srsly trying to pretend mp parity ? when did this happebn
23:09 asciilifeform eh if mr plebe gets caught stealing a doorknob from usg post office, he's in for 10k 'worth' of it plus prison
23:09 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/06/coblee-and-coinbase-quit-each-other/ << Qntra - Coblee And Coinbase Quit Each Other
23:10 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it's only injust enrichment if individual gets what he was promised. when government outright steals that's just "legitimacy".
23:10 asciilifeform noshit.jpg
23:11 asciilifeform it's what 'rule of law' gargle is made of.
23:11 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> phillipsjk i have nfi what that's supposed to mean, if you care. what back taxes and how does it help ?! << Generally a perk of dishwashing is that doing one's taxes means the government pays dishwasher. Very import subsidy supporting the ApplebeesMcHoulihams chemical industry.
23:11 asciilifeform 'when WE steal, it's Legitimate, and stfu terrorist'
23:12 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> hey, fatass did nothing wrong! << FAT IS WRONG!
23:12 mircea_popescu "rule of law" : if govt owes then http://trilema.com/2013/the-endless-story-of-korea/ ; if individual owes then he's a criminal for having had sometging in the first place!
23:12 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo no he stood up. fathealthy.
23:13 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aaaha, if plebe has >subsistence, he must have withheld Legitimate spoils from spoils-collector. iron logic.
23:13 asciilifeform see also the rembrandt thread.
23:13 BingoBoingo I haven't seen a single Karpicturales de-karpicting from head all the way to foot on floor without scaffolding to support weight
23:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform basically, there isn't at the present time one single stupidity of the soviet republic that's not implemented by the anglotard empire. not ONE thing.
23:14 mircea_popescu all the shit they were whining about and importantly burbling, human rights, property rights, a future, bla bla bla, ALL OF IT.
23:15 asciilifeform aaactually the seeds of all of this, were not merely planted but sprouted when lenin was not yet even born
23:15 mircea_popescu yes but as late as the 80s they were pretending they know better.
23:16 mircea_popescu the mothers of the current crop of useless cunts with delusions of journalism were just as their daughters, importantly neighing about "obviously" and "everyone knows" bullshit they couldn't spell.
23:16 asciilifeform tell the folx expropriated by usg-cum-'private'railroads ( live <10mile of new tracks ? lose land ) about 'property right' , etc
↖
23:16 asciilifeform 1880s.
23:16 asciilifeform or hey why not also the plantators.
23:16 mircea_popescu afaik that was paid fer.
23:16 asciilifeform 'paid'
23:16 * mircea_popescu has nfi
23:17 asciilifeform part of why usa has absolute shit rail today -- is the remembered hatred
23:17 mircea_popescu other than a vague awareness that it was pretty good business, buying land from usg at dollar an acre prices, then selling it back a month later to railway
23:18 asciilifeform 'property right' was always a... flexible.. concept , in usa
23:18 mircea_popescu i dunno dood, the whole reason "Cowboy" was even possible at all was that chicago canneries (where all the cowboys were headed) got rail link to new york, where all the corned * got et.
23:18 asciilifeform well yes.
23:18 mircea_popescu but otherwise, hey, sons of indians.
23:19 mircea_popescu although contemporary notation (say, clemens) does support a very healthy, tmsr-esque understanding of property rights in eg mining booms.
23:19 asciilifeform usa had periodic localized bubbles of sanity
23:19 mircea_popescu then the preachers moved in and "cleaned" the town up.
23:19 asciilifeform sorta why we're sprechen englisch
23:20 asciilifeform preachers, 'abolitionists', various.
23:20 mircea_popescu remind me btw, if i ever end up ruling a new fledged us of a cca 1800, the law will be to shoot all preachers and to hang all menopausal women.
23:20 mircea_popescu "humanitarians" are getting the tepes treatment.
23:22 asciilifeform 'humanitarians' may well resemble mircea_popescu's model of 'aids british'
23:22 asciilifeform i.e. appear where there is already a smell of gangrene
23:22 mircea_popescu "officious intermeddler" aka concern troll.
23:23 mircea_popescu by comparison to the schmuck telling a what to do for b's sake, the scammer is actually quite frequentable.
23:24 asciilifeform 'intermeddler' is a variant of scammer neh
23:24 mircea_popescu hence why preachers (what to do for god's sake!) == abolitionists (what you should do for negro's sake!!) == etc.
23:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform in the sense stupidity is a variant of laziness.
23:24 mircea_popescu sometimes it's just brain damage.
23:25 mircea_popescu amusingly, the fact that the great-grandfathers ofd today's "free" maryland blacks had it way the fuck better as slaves is somehow un-known to "scholarship".
↖
23:25 asciilifeform incidentally it's not wholly , imho, nonsensical to consider a picture where 'intermeddler' is actually providing a useful service -- a sync signal, if you will.
23:25 mircea_popescu just like EVERY SINGLE OTHER FUCKING TIME. there is no case known to history where the officious intermeddler's schemes didn't blow up ; nor has this ever been fucking admitted to, ever.
23:26 asciilifeform the advocated idiocy may be just that -- but the need to cut a buncha throats, is not illusory
23:26 asciilifeform it is always there
23:26 mircea_popescu asciilifeform in the sense that woman has an inborn whiny tone through which it signals it's not been beaten in too long ?
23:26 asciilifeform aha
23:27 asciilifeform it's loud, clear, you can almost tune it in with a crystal set when standing next to one!111
23:28 asciilifeform in asciilifeform's crackpot limonovesque hypothesis , ~societies~ also emit this squeal
23:28 asciilifeform 'kill, pleeees kill us, by the railcar'
23:28 asciilifeform 'we've gone too long between culls'
23:31 asciilifeform 'we will carry on as obscenely obese, impudent swine who have never seen the knife!'
23:32 asciilifeform asciilifeform is not the first nor the last to observe that - e.g. su - croaked ~exactly when the last ww2 vets left public life there
23:34 asciilifeform and for all i know, usa began to sink when the last ww2-gen d00d checked into alzheimer home
23:36 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> incidentally it's not wholly , imho, nonsensical to consider a picture where 'intermeddler' is actually providing a useful service -- a sync signal, if you will. << Downside o smoking cessation, loss of nicotine timing signal
~ 19 minutes ~
23:56 BingoBoingo And it appears 21.co killed their node tracker
↖
23:56 mircea_popescu was this the thing that kept pretending anyoen gives a shit abotu whatever bitcoin v 1650.2 ?
23:57 BingoBoingo It the "How many nodes run X software, that derp herp can our software find"
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