Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-10-02 | 2016-10-04 → ↓
00:09 deedbot http://www.contravex.com/2016/10/02/on-the-ultimate-justification-of-the-ethics-of-private-property-by-hans-hermann-hoppe-adnotated-part-4/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - On the Ultimate Justification of the Ethics of Private Property by Hans-Hermann Hoppe, adnotated. Part 4.
~ 7 hours 18 minutes ~
07:28 shinohai !~later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/1sIY
07:28 jhvh1 shinohai: The operation succeeded.
~ 1 hours 31 minutes ~
09:00 mircea_popescu !!up mepian
09:00 deedbot mepian voiced for 30 minutes.
09:00 mepian Hello and thanks for the voice
09:01 mepian I was reading Trilema for a while and decided to visit you here
09:03 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Choppied that piece up a bit.
09:03 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> that magenta thing had me in stitches though. masterfully done. << tyvm
09:05 mircea_popescu cheers.
09:06 mircea_popescu and in other workplace training, http://66.media.tumblr.com/888cc827651ff69149b312944b2d5d75/tumblr_mf7aci4gaY1rx0ocqo1_500.gif
09:08 deedbot http://trilema.com/2016/a-guide-for-torturing-cats-recently-voted-most-likely-to-psychopath-article-on-trilema-by-anonymous-and-otherwise-anodyne-romanian-speaking-derps/ << Trilema - A guide for torturing cats. Recently voted most likely to psychopath article on Trilema by anonymous and otherwise anodyne Romanian speaking derps.
09:19 mepian after reading about the plight of asciilifeform trying to implement a driver for gigabit NIC http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544183 I wonder if rolling your own NIC on FPGA in this fashion https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:19005/FULLTEXT01.pdf would be less insane
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09:19 a111 Logged on 2016-09-17 17:36 asciilifeform: i hunted for years and found what imho is the simplest GB/s-capable nic, the rt8168. here is the linux driver, https://github.com/mtorromeo/r8168/tree/master/src
09:26 jurov mepian: because drivers/interfaces for recent enough FPGAs are yet higher level of closedturdedness
09:32 PeterL !!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/e51yx/?raw=true
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09:32 deedbot accepted: 1
09:33 PeterL ^ I converted lamport paper to ascii, took some hand cranking to clean up after the machine gave it a try.
09:35 asciilifeform mepian: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551507 << please read the xilinx threads .
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09:35 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 13:19 mepian: after reading about the plight of asciilifeform trying to implement a driver for gigabit NIC http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544183 I wonder if rolling your own NIC on FPGA in this fashion https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:19005/FULLTEXT01.pdf would be less insane
09:39 asciilifeform e.g., http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-17#1165927
09:39 a111 Logged on 2015-06-17 13:17 asciilifeform: you can pick up a textbook and write a dram controller for fpga from first principles - and it won't work. because, for starters, only a small number of output cells in the chip can function on both rising and falling edge of clock cycle (what 'ddr' means) and only xilinx's closed turd knows where they are in the routing fabric;
09:42 asciilifeform and http://btcbase.org/log/2014-12-11#950467
09:42 a111 Logged on 2014-12-11 01:52 asciilifeform: decimation: notice that all known fpga manufacturers (xilinx, altera, lattice, a few others) have the same business model
09:43 asciilifeform and on at least six other occasions. somebody regularly shows up and asks re fpga.
09:43 asciilifeform a subject which i wasted years on.
09:45 asciilifeform (e.g., http://www.loper-os.org/?p=702 )
09:50 asciilifeform mepian: what i want to make is a ZERO-closed-vendor-turd machine, among other things. and no existing fpga gives you this.
~ 16 minutes ~
10:07 mircea_popescu PeterL ahaha nice work.
10:07 mircea_popescu !!up mepian
10:07 deedbot mepian voiced for 30 minutes.
10:10 shinohai http://archive.is/X4eIQ <<< a poor copycat of http://trilema.com/2016/my-first-bitcoin-or-how-do-i-get-some-satoshi/, 4 of the entires are the exact faucets trilema warns of dicking around with.
10:10 trinque http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-October/000237.html << seems like the ml eats "Re: " at the front of a message
10:10 trinque *subject
10:10 mod6 mornin'
10:10 trinque mod6: how goes it?
10:12 asciilifeform in other noose, https://archive.is/YvrAP
10:13 asciilifeform 'This C64C used by a small auto repair shop for balancing driveshafts has been working non-stop for over 25 years! And despite surviving a flood it is still going...'
10:13 asciilifeform 'No FUCKING Windows updates! No VIRUSES! No blue screens. Not even a "Guru Meditation" or 3 bombs... Just a working horse. That's what a computer supposed to be for you.'
10:19 mod6 trinque: good! looks to be a busy week.
10:19 mod6 you?
10:19 trinque same and same.
10:20 adlai mircea_popescu: cheers! now i, too, can tell #cat-v that "there's no way that's the REAL mircea because ..."
10:22 mircea_popescu because ?
10:26 mircea_popescu shinohai apropos of which, http://67.media.tumblr.com/f27e143774ad80af9845927899645d06/tumblr_mtdy1lT0Ko1qgp9ipo1_1280.jpg
10:26 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/10/ethereum-developers-reach-violent-part-of-huffing-binge-with-come-at-me-bro/ << Qntra - Ethereum Developers Reach Violent Part Of Huffing Binge With "Come at me bro"
10:27 mircea_popescu shinohai BingoBoingo ITS authors omygerd.
10:28 BingoBoingo sry, fxd
10:28 adlai doncha remember, "sl_ seriouslt this is not mircea ... i saved the emails last year from when mircea donated for my thinkpad"
10:29 trinque heya phf, did you ever take on that sbcl arm port (and which arm was it) ?
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10:30 mircea_popescu incidentally, at some point you gotta do the "sorry for your lues"
10:30 trinque phf: my google tentacles found that in foreign lands
10:32 trinque I encounter asciilifeform, phf, or gabriel_laddel tracks semi-frequently :P
10:32 BingoBoingo urls containing "drive.google.com/open?id=" now on qntra blacklist.
10:33 trinque !!rate gabriel_laddel 1 mega-helpful clim-splainer
10:33 deedbot Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/h1qka/?raw=true
10:33 trinque !!v DC2C216469620467DE71979B63F754FE244DB479EC7FA4349392136A74595FE9
10:33 deedbot trinque rated gabriel_laddel 1 << mega-helpful clim-splainer
10:34 trinque guy even sent me a detailed email in response to a query.
10:34 mircea_popescu he's rather nice.
10:37 mircea_popescu PeterL for the record, traditionally "not equal" is marked as != not /= because ! is the logical negation and also because / has other meanings ; while "less than or equal" is =< or <= or somesuch, not _<. why invent unexpected symbology ?
10:37 PeterL yeah, that makes sense.
10:39 PeterL could also use =/= ?
10:43 jurov despite my orientation, i prefer <>
10:45 deedbot http://deedbot.org/bundle-432671.txt
10:46 shinohai jurovs's favorite tar.gz double-clicker from yesterday just asked me if he could just wget all his dependencies.
10:46 * shinohai bangs head on desk
10:49 adlai /= is a [common]-lispism
10:49 PeterL what does it mean in lisp?
10:49 adlai "The value of /= is true if no two numbers are the same in value; otherwise it is false." http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_eq_sle.htm
10:50 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551510 << neato PeterL -- did you do this with bare hands ?!
10:50 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 13:32 PeterL: !!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/e51yx/?raw=true
10:51 PeterL well, I copy/pasted out of pdf, then with bare hands had to fix just about every symbol (and for some reason it lost all the "a"s)
10:52 asciilifeform sounds like titanic labour
10:52 PeterL took ~hour or so
10:52 asciilifeform and i cannot help but wonder, did PeterL end up grokking the paper in the process of massaging it
10:52 PeterL but it also gave a chance to thouroughly read paper
10:52 PeterL I grok it much more now than before task
10:52 asciilifeform the parallels with medieval copyists invite themselves...
10:54 * shinohai is disappointed PeterL didn't use vellum
10:54 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/10/colombian-electorate-votes-to-continue-war-against-farc/ << Qntra - Colombian Electorate Votes To Continue War Against FARC
10:55 PeterL deedbot does not eat vellum
10:55 shinohai ^.^
10:56 BingoBoingo <PeterL> deedbot does not eat vellum << He might if you ask trinque to feed it to him
10:56 PeterL that was essentially my task, getting deedbot to eat paper
10:57 * jurov force feeds deedbot clay tables
10:58 phf trinque: i added your sig to btcbase
10:58 asciilifeform it is a curiously-inverted but still quite medieval situation, today we rescue ~paper~ by turning it into ascii.
10:58 asciilifeform i suspect that when mircea_popescu wakes up he will at least feel temptation to write up a 'modern school of comp sci' thing where 'you must find a paper and asciify it...' etc
10:59 asciilifeform (at least this is what my emulated mircea_popescutron is currently running with)
10:59 BingoBoingo http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=5353
11:00 PeterL as far as mathematical/scientific papers go, asciiifying this one was not too bad.
11:01 asciilifeform PeterL: aha, the pieces from the age of the typewriter are, interestingly, easier.
11:01 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: for some odd reason i cannot picture lafond in my mind as anything other than the character in the pathetic film 'the wrestler'.
11:01 * BingoBoingo has not seen
11:01 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551486 << was it interlisp or maclisp that let you close multiple parenthesis with a single final one, like (do ((foo 1) (bar 2)) (blah (foo) == (do ((foo 1) (bar 2)) (blah (foo)))
11:01 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 03:18 asciilifeform: {a {b (1 2} (c d (e f} эквивалентно (a (b (1 2)) (c d (e f)))
11:02 asciilifeform phf: interlisp
11:02 asciilifeform and it is a braindamaged idea
11:02 asciilifeform and perhaps one of the few things ~not~ worth taking from it, imho.
11:02 asciilifeform i dare say it removes most of the fucking point of using sexprs in the first place
11:02 asciilifeform (to explicit the ast)
11:02 phf i was looking at some mit cadr source and they do some totally insane stuff with parenthesis closing/opening
11:03 phf i think it was a thing in vogue at some point, back when fexprs were still in the back of everyones minds
11:03 asciilifeform to be fair, they did not have some of the things we have
11:03 asciilifeform e.g., colour terminal, where you can colourize parens
11:03 asciilifeform or boxes fast enough to reindent 1000-line+ blocks every time the carriage return is hit
11:04 asciilifeform phf: i don't see how this is needed for fexprs
11:04 phf true, or the fact that simple half a second "match opening paren" is pain, when you're typing )))) in a row
11:04 asciilifeform now i COULD see mapping a key on kbd to 'shit out enough ) to balance'
11:05 asciilifeform but to place it in the code, destroys the homoiconicity.
11:05 phf asciilifeform: well, in a sense that it wasn't immediately obvious that read-delimited-list is a fundamental concept
11:06 phf for how cavalier cadr is with parenthesis, all of that is gone by the time of genera
11:06 asciilifeform phf: this is largely because they introduced proper editing
11:07 asciilifeform and also because genera was a product of adults, rather than children, it is a sin specifically of the latter to obsess over very dubious 'optimizations' like 'super-paren {}'
11:08 phf in before clojure and special [] :>
11:09 asciilifeform that was one of the off-putting things, actually, re the clojure people, why did they have to clobber every key on the keyboard
11:09 phf and then not give you readtable!
11:09 asciilifeform obligatory >> http://www.loper-os.org/?p=103
11:09 asciilifeform i like having the [], {}, etc. available for readtableisms.
11:10 asciilifeform sometimes a localized bit of custom notation is the only reasonably-compact abstraction.
11:10 asciilifeform (in linked example, we get a transformation of commonlisp into a language with entirely different syntax and evaluation rules, 'while you wait!111')
11:13 asciilifeform phf: interlisp had a graphical 'structure editor', i have never used it, and now i wonder if the {} thing was slightly less braindamaged given the context of having it.
11:13 phf fwiw they had a graphical editor going back to mit cadr, and it flashes and highlights
11:14 asciilifeform but does it reindent ?
11:16 phf hmm, fair question, but i don't remember, i can't remember if tab even indents to the right place, i'll check in a bit
11:20 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551544 << sbcl already has an arm port, courtesy of nyef. i am doing the same work for cmucl, but i'm very far from actually getting there. i'm going by armv7 with vfpv3-d16, mostly because that's what ccl does and their code is imho most readable
11:20 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 14:29 trinque: heya phf, did you ever take on that sbcl arm port (and which arm was it) ?
11:21 phf needless to say, i have no idea what i'm doing(r)(c)
11:21 trinque was particularly curious about armhf threads, which sbcl lacks
11:21 trinque arm64 has 'em
11:22 trinque clozure cl seems to work for what I need
11:22 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/10/dam-panic-spreads-among-environmentalists/ << Qntra - Dam Panic Spreads Among "Environmentalists"
11:22 trinque I have no idea whether ccl is a good idea (tm) (r)
11:28 asciilifeform for n00bz and perhaps also for mircea_popescu , i will add the note here, that lisp folk don't generally ~read~ the parens, they read the indentation. this requires proper tools, such that the possibility of encountering misindented crapola is ~= 0.
11:29 mircea_popescu lmao
11:29 trinque they are there as blessings!
11:30 PeterL why not just use python? indentation enforced!
11:30 mircea_popescu asciilifeform> the parallels with medieval copyists invite themselves... << it's called scholarship, hater.
11:31 asciilifeform who said i did not like.
11:31 mircea_popescu hm.
11:33 asciilifeform 'medieval' in my mind is not an insult.
11:33 asciilifeform think 'old version.' if there existed a medieval gcc, i'd at least consider it.
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11:34 mircea_popescu alrigh alright, you're not a hater, you're just a strange lover.
11:34 asciilifeform lolk.
11:34 mod6 heheh
11:35 shinohai I consider asciilifeform the republican authority on impalement methods
11:35 phf heyo
11:36 asciilifeform shinohai: nah, that'd be mircea_popescu
11:36 asciilifeform (who is actually king vlad himself, posting via a time wormhole)
11:36 mircea_popescu o.O
11:36 shinohai So that's what that stick he is carrying in the new trilema banner is for.
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11:37 mircea_popescu it may be illustrative to point out at this juncture that well over half of player time in eulora is spent with the character superimposed on a very pike like thing.
11:37 mircea_popescu (because mining)
11:37 mircea_popescu oh yeah, anyone figured what that thing in my hand is ?
11:37 shinohai I can't make it out, looked very close to a dried bovine penis for all I can tell.
11:38 mircea_popescu lol.
11:38 mircea_popescu it's actually a very fine machete. hecho en colombia.
11:38 shinohai oooh nice
11:38 mircea_popescu 180 pesos. ~15 bux.
11:40 asciilifeform looked like umbrella when i saw
11:40 asciilifeform quite ambiguous pic.
11:40 mircea_popescu aha.
11:40 mircea_popescu quite useful device, also. wrap it in newspaper, crack anyone's skull open.
11:41 asciilifeform 'In my opinion, sir, any officer who goes into action without his sword is improperly dressed.'
11:41 asciilifeform (colonel 'mad jack' churchill)
11:42 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> it's actually a very fine machete. hecho en colombia. << Very cool.
11:42 mircea_popescu i suppose a machete esp in the rula style as seen there is a very credible cavalry sword.
11:43 mircea_popescu (the word itself comes from "manliness" if anyone's curious)
11:44 mircea_popescu anyway. only way to open coconuts.
11:53 asciilifeform in other lulz, http://inf.ufrgs.br/~vbuaraujo/blog/?entry=20160519-c-identity-crisis
11:53 asciilifeform ( also of interest, to certain folks, by same: http://inf.ufrgs.br/~vbuaraujo/blog/?entry=20160528-lisp-without-cons-cells )
11:54 mircea_popescu this is the first time i hear c had an identity.
11:55 mircea_popescu i thought it was like the romanian language, a subjective superset of all languages.
11:55 asciilifeform you'd be surprised, there are folks who are convinced that they've been 'programming in c' for 30+ yrs.
11:55 mircea_popescu as opposed you c++ you mean ?
11:56 asciilifeform as opposed to 'in unix' or 'in winblows'
11:56 mircea_popescu but...
11:56 mircea_popescu yeahok.
11:56 asciilifeform at least the cpp folk are - typically - aware that their retarded horror has broad swath of vendor-specific behaviours and miscellaneous strange.
11:57 * asciilifeform incidentally currently cpp's for money, and has much that could be said on the subj, but naggum already said it
11:57 mircea_popescu one node higher from that : i was unaware anyone involved actually had the subjective mechanism of indentity. it works like this "don't do that, only gypsies do that, we're not gypsies". that's identity. whereas who in c ever said anything of the kind ?
11:57 mircea_popescu the ~only thing they produce is "oh yeah, those other people do that other thing ? SO DO WE!"
11:57 mircea_popescu this is not identity but the opposite thereof.
11:58 * asciilifeform is out of telepathic-psychoanalytic pills, is ill-equipped to answer the q of what 'c programmer's concept of identity' may be.
11:59 mircea_popescu you ever saw a "this should not be in c because it's stupid" in the past 30 or so years ?
12:00 mircea_popescu all the various "c-with-serials-filed-off-because-i-wanna-john-smith-all-over-the-place" inherit this bizarre property.
12:00 phf that second link looks like alternative take on cdrcoding, but since the first post started with "i read on twitter from discussion on hacker news"..
12:01 mircea_popescu no you don't understand, "Software, lingüística, mitologia nórdica e rock'n'roll". a true renaiswitter man.
12:01 asciilifeform the issue in subj link is quite real though.
12:01 asciilifeform even if the peanut gallery has shat all over it.
12:03 asciilifeform e.g., 'Pointer arithmetic. In the good old times, an int and a pointer used to have the same size. People happily used ints as array indices. Array indexing is just pointer arithmetic, and in some architectures (like x86), you can often perform the pointer arithmetic plus load in a single instruction. Then came 64-bit architectures. For reasons I don't really get (compatibility?), on x86-64 and other 64-bit architectures ints remaine
12:03 asciilifeform d 32-bit even though pointers became 64-bit. The problem now is that transformations that assumed integers and pointers to be the same size don't work anymore, because now their point of overflow is different.'
12:04 mircea_popescu i dunno man. "This looks (to me) as good C code as it gets. However, this code triggers undefined behavior: after the first iteration of the loop frees the node pointed to by head, it is undefined behavior to perform the tmp != head comparison, even though head is not dereferenced." << if this looks like good c to him he would have flunked my higschool class.
12:04 mircea_popescu because YOU MAKE A COPY and compare with it.
12:04 asciilifeform aaaaaahahaha
12:04 mircea_popescu absolute minimum defensive coding for unix ; taught as such decades ago in fucking romanian.
12:04 asciilifeform 'make a copy' and put it WHERE ??
12:04 mircea_popescu in your spare pocket.
12:05 mircea_popescu "may not use the datastructs you are dereferencing in any control code involving the dereferencing. F."
12:13 asciilifeform from comments, '...there are many processor features that are not directly available in C even though they are available in a wide variety of processors (the overflow flag is a prime example). A similar situation that comes to my mind now is that 32bit*32bit multiplication results in a 32-bit integer in C even though most processors yield a 64-bit result...'
12:13 asciilifeform ^ this is a personal hatred of asciilifeform's, when dealing with bignumatrons
12:14 mircea_popescu why the fuck do 64 bit platforms even bother with 32 bit ints ffs.
12:14 mircea_popescu i spent 100s of engineer-hours fixing the idiocy of "int" not being 64 bit ; it's a disaster for human productivity directly comparable to the black death.
12:14 mircea_popescu worst fucking idea ever and who the fuck came up with it.
12:15 asciilifeform well let's say that we redefined int as 64b. then the headache would simply be 'why does c not give us the 128-bit mul result that pentium happily disgorges when we mul rax, rbx'
12:15 asciilifeform (which are 64bits)
12:16 mircea_popescu i suppose these are unrelated complaints.
12:16 asciilifeform c is fundamentally braindamaged in 1,001 ways, even in light of its nominal purpose as 'fancy macroassembler'
12:16 asciilifeform the arch it ~was~ 'fancy macroasm' for no longer exists
12:16 asciilifeform and has not existed since... 1982 or so.
12:20 asciilifeform i will give example here, to nail in the point:
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12:21 asciilifeform let's say i'd like to add two 128-bit ints together.
12:21 asciilifeform say [edi] points to one
12:22 asciilifeform 64-bit, rather
12:22 asciilifeform so,
12:22 asciilifeform add dword [edi], 0xAABBCCDD
12:22 asciilifeform adc dword [edi+4], 0x1234567
12:22 asciilifeform adc dword [edi+8], 0
12:23 asciilifeform ( we are on a 32-bit box in this example ) and we add 0x12345678AABBCCDD , a 64-bit int, to another 64-bit int, to get a 128-bit result.
12:24 asciilifeform because we have this great thing called 'adc', add-with-carry.
12:24 mircea_popescu i'd say we are adding two ints to two consecutive memory maps, but w/e.
12:24 asciilifeform we also have things like shift-with-carry,
12:25 asciilifeform shl dword [num], 1
12:25 asciilifeform rcl dword [num+4], 1
12:25 asciilifeform rcl dword [num+8], 1
12:25 asciilifeform jc overflow
12:25 mircea_popescu and if your first add overflows then what ?
12:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: that's what add-with-carry is for
12:25 mircea_popescu ...
12:25 mircea_popescu add/adc
12:25 asciilifeform it adds the overflow bit (which can physically be 1 or 0, think about it) to the next add.
12:26 mircea_popescu is something supposed to be processed backwards here or what ?
12:26 asciilifeform nope.
12:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu want me to work it out pedantically ?
12:26 mircea_popescu <asciilifeform> add dword [edi], 0xAABBCCDD << say edi = 0xAABBCCDD. the contents of edi+4 after this will be 0.
12:27 asciilifeform the contents of edi+4 is unaffected by the first instruction, mircea_popescu .
12:27 mircea_popescu so what happens if the first instruction overflows ?
12:28 mircea_popescu add dword 0xAABBCCDD, 0xAABBCCDD = 557799BA
12:28 asciilifeform you get a carry bit set to 1, and [edi] is 0x557799ba .
12:28 asciilifeform try it yourself.
12:28 mircea_popescu oh and then adc pops the carry bit ?
12:29 asciilifeform http://x86.renejeschke.de/html/file_module_x86_id_4.html << aha.
12:29 mircea_popescu myeah ; color me satisfied. i thought you have to use adc to pop it and push it both.
12:29 asciilifeform nono, this is quite elementary.
12:29 asciilifeform and works similarly on all cpu.
12:29 asciilifeform (all cpu you might ever encounter, at any rate.)
12:30 mircea_popescu myeah. except the one in my head ; cuz if i had made cpus then add dword 0xAABBCCDD, 0xAABBCCDD = 557799BA and adc dword 0xAABBCCDD, 0xAABBCCDD = 557799BA + set carry bit. but then again i dun make them.
12:30 asciilifeform so to continue the tale, NONE of these ops (add-with-carry, shift-with-carry, etc) map to any conceivable c code !
12:30 asciilifeform (the reverse is not true, of course)
12:30 mircea_popescu none of these map to any code other than asm ; chiefly because fixed memory like this is not even used anymore.
12:31 asciilifeform it is used in every box you can presently buy. pretenses to the contrary.
12:31 asciilifeform 'fixed memory' is what you get when you buy ram. no other kind is sold.
12:31 mircea_popescu ok. chiefly because the fashion in kink high this season is to pretend that fixed memory like this is not even used anymore.
12:31 asciilifeform fashion aha.
12:32 asciilifeform but underneath the emperor's robe, there is same bare arse as everyone else has.
12:33 mircea_popescu i suppose the solution everyone uses is to declare a special class made of arbitrary length bitfields and define procedures on it such as these.
12:33 mircea_popescu pretty sure that's what gfx people do, for instance, some of the fellows that first encountered 128 bit, 256bit and so forth overflowing ints.
12:33 asciilifeform mircea_popescu knows very well what they do
12:34 asciilifeform massive bags of hand-asm inline.
12:34 mircea_popescu myeah.
12:35 asciilifeform (and plenty of 'special' cpu instrs, which operate on large fixnums, e.g., 128-bit xmm regs)
12:35 asciilifeform all of this retardation is because c semantics are very much inhospitable to working on variably-sized, non-register-sized operands
12:35 asciilifeform among other caltrops.
12:36 asciilifeform as for the 'kink high' aspect, the rubes are approaching the retardation in much the same way medieval folk approached the plague
12:36 asciilifeform hygiene-via-parfumery.
12:36 mircea_popescu hey, it's what built the united states
12:37 asciilifeform does it still stink? NEED MOAR SPRAY
12:37 mircea_popescu (a demand for tobacco powered by europe's elite aiming to protect itself from diseases through smoke permitted richmond to be a thing.)
12:37 asciilifeform aha.
12:37 mircea_popescu otherwise, florida had 500 people in 1770.
12:40 asciilifeform point earlier was, the 'c is THE close-to-the-metal language' is a half-truth
12:41 mircea_popescu no argument there
12:41 BingoBoingo Best untruth moar leik.
12:41 mircea_popescu the only valid statement of it is that "all other languages bootstrap in c". see recent discussion with phf.
12:41 mircea_popescu so it's more of a fashion / kink high consensus thing than a real matter.
12:42 asciilifeform to our grief, it is very very easy to write a (sad, inefficient, but working) c compiler.
12:42 asciilifeform which is how the disease perpetuates itself.
12:42 mircea_popescu hey, you just wrote a c complier for addition above! :D
12:43 asciilifeform well no, that was 'compiler' for sane-people addition
12:43 asciilifeform (where the operands can be of any size you like)
12:43 asciilifeform quite unlike c.
12:43 mircea_popescu no dude. the reason the disease perpetuates itself is the functionally illiterate product of the stunted intellectual life in the colonies ; whereby there's this outpour of idiots who imagine "what i can do" is an acceptable limit of "what i shall do". so they'll be writing things in c "because that's what i know".
12:43 mircea_popescu as if that's the fucking criteria, what you know.
12:44 mircea_popescu "i will now make apple pie out of turnips, because here in new york all we have is turnips. mmmmm delicious apple pie, new-york style. the angel morni told me so!"
12:44 mircea_popescu moroni*
12:44 asciilifeform well if all you got is turnip.
12:44 mircea_popescu no.
12:44 asciilifeform then menu is a) turnip b) dirt.
12:44 mircea_popescu if all you got is turnip beat the women to death.
12:45 asciilifeform c ) get on a boat and MAYBE come back 20 yrs later.
12:45 asciilifeform possibly also with only turnip.
12:45 asciilifeform and syphilis
12:45 mircea_popescu i'm not eating fucking turnip pie.
12:45 mircea_popescu "but mp, we'll season it. with cilantro."
12:45 mircea_popescu *rage*
12:46 mircea_popescu how is it that the republic can do just fine progressing at the clip of its own progress, no faster than that, nor slower ; and that while we don't specifically wnat to "do things" or set goals, nevertheless we do things and achieve (other people's) goals ?
↖
12:46 mircea_popescu there's a fucking right way to do things, and this arbitrary "i shall now be a becoming actress" ain't it.
12:53 asciilifeform thing is, 'right way to do things' is not in practice available to engineer, who always and ~without exception labours inside a cage made of his predecessors' retardation.
12:54 asciilifeform now ~how much retardation to create himself~ is often within his control, and sometimes he can manage a 0
12:54 asciilifeform but in all cases the idiocy is cumulative.
13:00 asciilifeform now also, the effect of 'babelization' is instructively pertinent.
13:00 asciilifeform as per the immediately previous thread, some operations are actually SIMPLER, conceptually, to express in x86 asm than in c !
13:00 asciilifeform e.g., anything pertaining to bignums - as hopefully is abundantly clear from the example.
13:01 asciilifeform but C remains popular not merely because 'c compiler is the first thing to be ported to any new iron' but also because it is 'lowest common denominator.'
13:01 asciilifeform so, if we said 'this here x86-64 asm is canonical bignumatron', it will be quite useless to phf with his armhf box, or whatnot.
13:01 asciilifeform (or on pogo. or,or.)
13:07 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551637 << we're going to end up with frozen gcc, lynx, sbcl at this rate
13:07 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 15:33 asciilifeform: think 'old version.' if there existed a medieval gcc, i'd at least consider it.
13:13 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: iirc we already had frozen gcc
13:13 asciilifeform as of rotor.
13:14 asciilifeform for so long as you are still using traditional trb, you are stuck with some variant of this.
13:14 asciilifeform otherwise one day you discover 'surprise', gcc6 or whatever won't build trb, or worse, builds-with-boojum
13:15 asciilifeform (some new, or removed, 'optimization' that gives exploitable overflow in this or that.)
13:21 ben_vulpes "you
13:21 ben_vulpes bah
13:21 ben_vulpes "you're not a c programmer, you're a gcc programmer"
13:21 asciilifeform nobody is a c programmer.
13:21 asciilifeform or ever was.
13:22 asciilifeform there are gcc programmers, gcc-and-microshit programmers, etc.
13:22 asciilifeform nintendo and supernintendo, etc.
13:22 asciilifeform even gcc-to-bare-mips is quite different animal from gcc-to-x86-linux
13:22 asciilifeform arguably more different than nintendo vs x86.
13:23 asciilifeform there does not exist such a thing as 'a c program', even the schoolbook 'hello world' relies on a megatonne of os crapola simply to load and produce human-readable out.
13:26 trinque $s is lisp dying
13:26 trinque !#s is lisp dying
13:26 a111 12 results for "is lisp dying", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=is%20lisp%20dying
↖
13:27 asciilifeform http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3141310154691952@naggum.no.html << ?
13:28 asciilifeform 'it's appropriate to make a machine print "hello world" to verify that everything works after all the mind-boggling nonsense has interfered with the real purpose of a computer, and you never know which part of booting up will fail due to a minor bug. the delight in a C programmer's eyes when his machine thus booted typed "hello world" back at him would probably parallel that of a Common Lisp programmer when the satellite communicati
13:28 asciilifeform ons subsystem he designed beams back "hello world" after an almost-aborted launch, a navigation jet which misfired, and the solar panels sustained some damage by space debris. normally, it's unnecessary to have confirmations of basic operations, but it makes perfect sense under C.'
13:28 trinque aha
13:28 asciilifeform (whole thing worth reading.)
13:28 trinque knew it was already in l0gz
↖
~ 39 minutes ~
14:08 deedbot http://cascadianhacker.com/base58-encoding-in-common-lisp << CH - Base58 Encoding in Common Lisp
~ 15 minutes ~
14:23 mircea_popescu http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161003/#340 << yes. as we speak diana_coman is busy at work making snapsnots of linuxen. because it's obvious from practice that the way this goes is "i can't install eulora on linux" "we tested this" "but i can't". then upon extensive and expensive research it turns out... THEY CHANGED THE FUCKING DISTRO. breaking software. because why not.
↖
14:23 scriba Something went wrong while attempting to read the log.
14:23 scriba Exception: ['utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 6698: invalid start byte]
14:23 mircea_popescu so we'll just have people run historical snapshots and that's that.
↖
14:24 mircea_popescu this, of course, means no fixes.
14:25 ben_vulpes "year of the linux desktop!"
14:25 mircea_popescu yawell. it dun work.
14:25 * shinohai curses Debian for whatever crapolade is in newest release
14:25 ben_vulpes this gulf between computers as toys and computers as devices to be used by people who can patch, understand what the machine is doing stretches wider every day.
14:25 ben_vulpes not that i'm claiming to understand what the machine is doing.
14:25 mircea_popescu at least observably wider.
14:26 mircea_popescu if anyone is inclined to maintain forks of any linux distro (much in the manner of trb - to clean, not to "support"/utf/systemd/etc) we can prolly work something out.
↖
14:27 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: we already do ~this with buildroot.
14:27 asciilifeform (if you add a kernel and busybox to mod6's config, you get a linux.)
14:28 asciilifeform ( what ELSE do you really need, on top of kernel+shell+gcc, to count as 'a linux' ? 'xpenguins' ?! )
14:29 shinohai Well I certainly learned the merits of preserving an older gcc this weekend
14:34 trinque Framedragger: I can help you fix that python error; ping me when available.
↖
14:38 PeterL so I am working on porting the parachute scripts to python, does this look better as multiple or single line? http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/z1jyt/?raw=true
14:39 asciilifeform the former.
14:40 trinque even when using generator exprs could at least hit enter once in a while :p
14:40 PeterL I guess there is something to be said for not doing everything at once, makes it easier to understand
14:47 asciilifeform PeterL: aha.
14:48 deedbot http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1862 << Loper OS - Still Tenser, Said the Censor.
14:50 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551829 << i run into 1,001 instances of this whenever trying to build nearly ANYTHING i-didn't-write-myself from source.
14:50 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 18:23 mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161003/#340 << yes. as we speak diana_coman is busy at work making snapsnots of linuxen. because it's obvious from practice that the way this goes is "i can't install eulora on linux" "we tested this" "but i can't". then upon extensive and expensive research it turns out... THEY CHANGED THE FUCKING DISTRO. breaking software. because why not.
14:50 scriba Something went wrong while attempting to read the log.
14:50 scriba Exception: ['utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 6698: invalid start byte]
14:50 asciilifeform urgh
14:51 asciilifeform Framedragger ^ ?!
14:52 mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha.
14:52 ben_vulpes and in today's "shooop or nooot?" http://66.media.tumblr.com/cf3b2fcaa400b04c14aa2deea94c98a7/tumblr_oegpvpBf541qjjis9o1_1280.jpg
14:53 mircea_popescu genuine, i;m sure.
14:53 asciilifeform source is mcafee.
14:53 asciilifeform fwiw.
14:54 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i need an interpretation guide for your last post. what am i seeing ?
14:55 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: pg & co. are kind enough to mark '[FLAGGED]' when they hand-delete one's post on their thing (visible only to the user)
14:55 mircea_popescu seems it's all qntra huh.
14:56 asciilifeform aha.
14:56 mircea_popescu i suppose not enough faux "women in tech" to satisfy teh libtards.
14:56 asciilifeform gawker - a-ok; qntra - verboten.
14:56 asciilifeform esp if subject concerns diddled keys.
14:56 mircea_popescu shall be their undoing.
14:56 mircea_popescu there are some drugs you don't win the war on.
14:57 mircea_popescu vaguely related, it turns out that the per capita price for polish children cca 1942 was 25 zloty.
14:59 asciilifeform before or after boiled for soap ?
14:59 mircea_popescu fully functional.
14:59 mircea_popescu maybe slightly used.
15:00 asciilifeform and what was that, anyway, in white man's money..?
15:00 mircea_popescu bout a dollar.
15:01 asciilifeform (does it even make sense to ask exchange rate of zloty in '42? currency of defunct crown)
15:01 mircea_popescu incidentally, the demolished man is an excellent piece, inasmuch as it's pretty much an exact description of both the ideal as well as the practical implementation of "modern democracy, civilised & globalized" as teh bureaucrats perceive it.
15:01 asciilifeform noshit.
15:02 mircea_popescu it's literally what hillary clinton thought she was doing with her derpy email server. and still thinks this.
15:02 mircea_popescu "protecting esper l3 comms from terrorists who don't understand how demolished world works."
15:02 asciilifeform konsensoos reality is one hell of a drug.
15:03 mircea_popescu (note that the ~only punishment described is... having to leave "the country". as if not smelling the fucking farts of ustards is the worst fate.)
15:03 asciilifeform the toilet chick from mircea_popescu's photo earlier -- has substantial edge over these folks. she at least ~knows~ that she is hooked on dope.
15:04 mircea_popescu this is altogether dubious, from experience.
15:04 mircea_popescu much like hillary, she thinks it merely enhances her life and she could quit at any time, if the balance turned -ev
15:04 asciilifeform dunno that 'rock bottom' folks still have the 'can quit anytime!111' notion
15:04 mircea_popescu womne almost never hit rock bottom. this is almost entirely a male phenomenon.
15:05 asciilifeform (but not living in their company, i have deeply nfi.)
15:05 mircea_popescu women generally just die.
15:05 asciilifeform eh if dope folk 'just died', we'd see many fewer of'em
15:05 asciilifeform but death, generally, takes work.
15:06 mircea_popescu there's some biological factors to account for this, both directly (shittier metabolism ; stronger response to neurotransmitters ; the venereal 50/5 trap etc) and indirect (through the workings of sexuate reproduction women are always vandable) ; but i'm pretty sure there's also psychological factors involved.
↖
15:07 asciilifeform vandable?
15:07 mircea_popescu specifically, that male self-hate tends to reject the world (which is what "i hit rock bottom" always is - it is insanity to imagine the addict understands the world in your terms, and "Has seen reason" ; no such thing, he just activated a peculiar, and reasonably well understood, psychological process. no rationality involved) whereas in females tends to reject the self.
15:08 mircea_popescu vandable, which can be sold.
15:08 asciilifeform ah vendable
15:08 asciilifeform hm ok.
15:08 mircea_popescu right.
15:09 mircea_popescu apparently it's actually vendible.
15:11 asciilifeform doesn't their lim($marketvalue - $costofdopehabit) ---> -inf as t--->+inf though ?
15:12 mircea_popescu addiction limits that t very narrowly closer to inf. if you get her started in college she'll die before her tits sag if we're talking eg meth.
15:13 mircea_popescu and the beauty is, the only true boundry on the $costofdopehabit is the ceiling on t.
15:13 mircea_popescu if you're willing to die tomorrow you can have five pounds of your choice of dusts, seeing how yo ugo rob a bank.
15:14 asciilifeform quite conceivably dope is a beneficial thing, by this light, if it helps folks who are candidates for BingoBoingo's 'scooty' photos to die (relatively) cheaply, and quickly, rather than slowly and expensively decades later
15:14 mircea_popescu surely. dope is still the best way to open up china for "trade" ; as it is the best way to get that snotty chick with "plans for the future" open for... hm. "partying".
15:15 asciilifeform one of the interesting recurring motifs in dalrymple (british dude who worked for decades as prison doctor) re addicts is that they are not 'could be just anybody'
↖
15:15 asciilifeform most folks off the street, if given whatever dope you like, will not - apparently - take to it.
↖
15:15 mircea_popescu he mostly studied men. there's a marked difference between the genders.
15:16 asciilifeform tru
15:16 mircea_popescu but yes, humanity being what it is - this isn't a complete solution. given a large enough population, you'll find individuals capable to survive anything ; hiv even has innate immunity believe it or noit.
15:17 asciilifeform (consider, perhaps most adults in industrialized countries - and elsewhere - have at one point taken an opiate, but how many became morphinists ? )
15:18 mircea_popescu we are discussing very unlikely situations here. back when i was a kid, codeine as a phosophorous salt was the child cough remedy ; i took plenty ; so did other kids. did ~nothing.
↖
15:18 asciilifeform aha, same
15:19 mircea_popescu it was safe mostly \because lacking the social context.
15:19 asciilifeform so - hypothesis is that you need the 'opium den' >
15:19 asciilifeform ?
15:20 mircea_popescu well, opium adiction is very slow. you need to actually get addicted.
15:20 mircea_popescu as that pacino character aptly points out, "i'm chippin'"
15:20 mircea_popescu think of starting a wood fire. "many trunks in the forest, including mine and friends' i saw, had zippo lighter approached to trunk - nothing happened"
15:21 mircea_popescu sure darling. suppose you're a) dry enough and b) in a furnace, ok ?
15:21 PeterL what is the difference between a zippo and a hippo? One is very heavy and the other is a little lighter!
15:21 asciilifeform or napalmed, lol
15:21 mircea_popescu lol.
15:22 mircea_popescu PeterL has this decided "kids interests" streak in him. he knows all the shit 12yos are liable to find cool.
15:23 PeterL well, I hang around with a 10 yo girl a lot, sometimes it rubs off
15:23 mircea_popescu did you ask her the sphinx's challenge ?
15:24 PeterL I think she knows that one already
15:24 mircea_popescu a
15:26 mircea_popescu so girl bought "brazilian grapes". they're indescribably aptly named. colored this luscious black, like a brazilian chick's tone ; big, and round, and tough and sweet.
15:33 ben_vulpes !~later tell pete_dushenski 'no ceilings' isn't a /bad/ mixtape, on review
15:33 jhvh1 ben_vulpes: The operation succeeded.
~ 29 minutes ~
16:02 shinohai http://archive.is/JrAnI <<< so like colored coins, but better?
↖
16:04 mircea_popescu !#s sergio demina lerner
16:04 a111 0 results for "sergio demina lerner", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=sergio%20demina%20lerner
16:04 mircea_popescu this is odd.
16:05 mircea_popescu anyway ; like colored coins except with a different dood pretending to authorship.
16:07 shinohai "We propose a soft-fork that defines a new opcode (redefining a NOP opcode) as the OP_COUNT_ACKS using the segwit script versioning system"
16:08 mircea_popescu but w/e, after the total rout of the gavin forks in 2015 and the political rather than technological defeat of the summer of forks earlier last year the remaining hole - which is also not going to get plugged - is exactly in this vein (segwit is no different), where all comers are more than welcome to define magic versions, script meanings and paralel chains ; which everyone else is more than welcome to ignore.
16:08 mircea_popescu this both satisfies the desire of github rats to feel connected to bitcoin even though they aren't ; as well as bitcoin's necessity to be rid of the "talented" young minds.
16:08 mircea_popescu so it's stable, and can continue indefinitely. they have not the power to change the situation at any rate.
16:15 jurov http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551832 << Good luck. Just in few years, newest videocard will cease to be supported in your medieval kernel or xorg version...
↖
16:15 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 18:23 mircea_popescu: so we'll just have people run historical snapshots and that's that.
16:15 asciilifeform jurov: this is 'the iron problem' and we discussed it, what, 20+ times.
16:15 asciilifeform it has exactly 1 long-term solution - to make own hardware.
16:15 asciilifeform yes, from mineral.
16:16 jurov Is mircea going to do this for eulora? I missed it.
16:16 asciilifeform it also has a broad spectrum of short-term half-solutions (use minimal subset of the iron's functionality; stockpile old amd; etc)
16:17 asciilifeform jurov: i wouldn't put it past him to sell a 'game console' for it at some point
16:17 asciilifeform but i have nfi, i am not the one to ask!
16:18 jurov You see, I was asked to operate eulora vendor channels, and just gave up exactly bacause of this. It needs team of monkeys to keep up.
16:20 mircea_popescu jurov hey, this isn't from a good life.
16:20 adlai holy logs.
16:21 mircea_popescu but from what i see, ~nobody has "newest" video card.
16:21 mircea_popescu moreover "new" video cards make about as much sense as "14nm cpu".
16:21 trinque now that is the stuff of sci-fi dreams. republican game console brings political and computing salvation to teh youth.
16:21 asciilifeform actually ~everybody who walks into a shop and buys a lappy gets a newest minus a year or two video card.
16:22 mircea_popescu the moore is dead. it's just as dead here as it was when i killed gavin with it. dead is dead, and objective reality means universal properties.
16:22 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it being dead has not discouraged chip vendors from shuffling the cards every year.
16:22 mircea_popescu asciilifeform except anyone who walks into a shop to buy a lappy walks out with ipad anyway.
16:23 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what are your players playing on ? i personally have very little idea, except that i notice that you support winblows and ergo some substantial number of them are lusers. and may well be 'walking into shop, buy lappy'
16:23 mircea_popescu shocking vastity of 32bit systems, for one thing.
16:23 mircea_popescu and my 2004 vintage card is not even the oldest ; not by a long shot.
16:23 asciilifeform this is artifact of the turd world being ~decade behind the planned-obsolescence curve.
16:23 mircea_popescu i guess.
16:24 adlai http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551646 << actually my first association was "type softly and swing a big stick"
16:24 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 15:36 shinohai: So that's what that stick he is carrying in the new trilema banner is for.
16:24 asciilifeform point being that next year, their cards will eventually be whatever was common in usa in '07, roughly. and the next - '08. etc
16:24 mircea_popescu maybe.
16:24 jurov Oh, windows is completely other can of nastiness. You can count on directx being kinda stable, but the incessant updates are prone to break anything else.
16:25 mircea_popescu actually i'm currently chasing a major performance degrading bug which seems to be related to directx version > 8.
16:25 asciilifeform every-six-months-incompatible-chip had ~0 to do with moore's law before, and has 0 now.
16:25 asciilifeform it is done SPECIFICALLY to keep US out.
16:25 mircea_popescu and by "major performance degrading" i mean that same machine, same os, same code runs at 150 fps with pre and ad 1.5 fps with post. no otehr symptoms.
16:26 asciilifeform (lusers who get auto-updated 'new kernel' etc do not notice the new chip. which often is sold with the same laser markings, even, as the old, not even speaking of the actual model number)
16:26 mircea_popescu anyway ; a large portion of these problems (there's also a threading fuckup or two, and other things) have to do with the miserable quality of the legacy codebase (like http://trilema.com/2016/minigame-smg-september-2016-statement/#selection-931.0-931.47 miserable).
16:26 mircea_popescu i expect as we clean that up i'll be in a better position to make sense.
16:27 asciilifeform i was addressing jurov's more general http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551943
16:27 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 20:15 jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551832 << Good luck. Just in few years, newest videocard will cease to be supported in your medieval kernel or xorg version...
16:27 mircea_popescu to be honest, i do not think the current "open source" has five years left in it.
16:28 mircea_popescu i suspect that by 2020, ~everything will cease to be supported
16:28 mircea_popescu so it's kind-of a moot point anyway.
16:28 mircea_popescu and again - not from a good life.
16:29 asciilifeform gpu on linux ~never actually ~worked.
16:29 asciilifeform with open, i mean, driver.
16:29 mircea_popescu right.
16:30 asciilifeform one of the reasons i'm not playing eulora.
16:30 mircea_popescu and it seems the high water was cca 2010, not improving.
16:32 asciilifeform btw this is one of the potential uses for ice probe
16:32 asciilifeform reversing winblowz drivers.
16:32 mircea_popescu yeah but which card.
16:33 asciilifeform card of the day.
16:33 mircea_popescu myeah. that's the other thing - once the "r&d" pretense goes away, vidcards will definitely go the way of ram, as hdds went before it. ie, centralization, 1 place in asia where they're all made, all the same.
16:34 mircea_popescu at which point making a proiper driver for the bn unit singleitem will make sense
16:34 asciilifeform you either -- make your own cards, or reverse somebody else's, tertium non datur.
16:34 mircea_popescu like it makes sense now to reverse z80
16:34 mircea_popescu no point wasting effort with the current variety ; unless one's trying to learn.
16:34 adlai http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551821 << after reading preceding thread (and i must say: machine code logs > all other logs), i now wonder if i'm not a lisp programmer, nor a cl programmer, nor even an sbcl or ccl programmer, but a "ql:quickload programmer"
16:34 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 17:26 a111: 12 results for "is lisp dying", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=is%20lisp%20dying
16:34 asciilifeform adlai: from reading your published material, it would seem like this is so.
16:35 mircea_popescu lol.
16:35 mircea_popescu it's always cute when one discovers this.
16:35 adlai http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551827 << correct me if i'm wrong, but does "logs" include http://www.xach.com/naggum/* ?
16:35 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 17:28 trinque: knew it was already in l0gz
16:35 adlai sorry, 'l0gz'
16:36 * adlai finds himself pining for that one server where s/foo/bar/ actually works
16:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this commoditization - it did not happen by magic.
16:36 mircea_popescu invisible handmagic!
16:36 adlai asciilifeform: unfortunately, it's pretty much impossible to 'tradebot' without this
16:37 adlai even if you want to atomic-swap trb against etc, you're stuck shelling out, so you're at best "sbcl/ccl programmer"
16:38 adlai (at worst - tinyscheme matchstick-and-glue-bridger)
16:46 adlai http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551909 << in this case, i'm gonna "blame the mice", or in other words -- and i can't find the exact 'logs' here, but it's iirc Leary -- "you can meditate for ten years and achieve nothing, but take a decimated milligram of lysergic acid dimethylamide, and something interesting is guaranteed to happen"
16:46 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 19:15 asciilifeform: most folks off the street, if given whatever dope you like, will not - apparently - take to it.
16:46 adlai s/m//
16:46 * trinque predicts adlai will evade but...
16:47 trinque define acheive, and ... something.
16:47 adlai does it count as evading if i explain my paraphrase rather than citing strunk and white?
16:48 trinque I've done acid something like 10 times. Where was the something interesting?
16:48 adlai ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HOW MANY TIMES have you meditated daily for ten years?
16:49 mircea_popescu who the fuck meditates.
↖
16:49 adlai the gist of the paraphrase is that some chemicals have an effect on the human brain which is not reducible to "now you will be less inhibited"
16:49 trinque !#s ordeal
16:49 a111 20 results for "ordeal", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ordeal
16:49 trinque !#s from:trinque ordeal
16:49 a111 2 results for "from:trinque ordeal", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Atrinque%20ordeal
16:50 trinque that's all it is, and woe upon you that your culture has none worthwhile to put you through.
16:50 adlai http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1543757 << old idf proverb: "what does not kill you, makes you stronger; what does, makes mom stronger"
16:50 a111 Logged on 2016-09-17 06:15 trinque: ordeal is therapeutic; psychdelics maybe if they cause a beneficial ordeal
16:50 adlai interestingl, hebrew has a single word for "does not kill you"
16:50 adlai makes this proverb actually poetic, as opposed to my english translabutchering
16:50 mircea_popescu and the word is something like "mis'r" ?
16:50 mircea_popescu lol
16:51 asciilifeform adlai: thread was re 'addiction dopes'
16:51 asciilifeform vs your favourite swizzle stick for mental blocks
16:51 adlai mekhashel. means roughly, "makes you stronger, short of the irreducible strength attained by having your obituary written"
16:51 * adlai has yet to find a chemical which truly makes him more productive, long term. so far they've all been 'addiction'
16:51 trinque adlai: you still didn't define the fucking precise benefit
16:52 trinque am I supposed to buy homeopathic cures from you on the same grounds?
16:52 adlai by which count ( http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-19#1327189 )... i'm not a person!
16:52 a111 Logged on 2015-11-19 16:19 mircea_popescu: specifically, that there are two kids of people : the addicts, who aren't people, and the actual people.
16:52 mircea_popescu shell out bitch!
16:52 adlai benefit of what, doing things you've never done before?
16:52 adlai define "ordeal"
16:52 trinque this borderline slut right here
16:53 mircea_popescu ordeal is what your mom doesn't want to happen to you.
16:53 adlai looks like i'm too fuck to drunk, i'll http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-25#1529463
16:53 a111 Logged on 2016-08-25 22:58 mircea_popescu: i think it is past your bedtime, yes. come back fresh tomorrow.
16:53 mircea_popescu later.
16:54 adlai goodnight and shana tova to all the kikes reading along
16:54 ben_vulpes shana tova
↖
16:54 ben_vulpes on a different topic am i crazy or are bitcoin /pubkeys/ serialized in the blockchain big-endianly and /ripmd160 pubkey hashes/ serialized little-endianly?
16:55 mircea_popescu for all the respectable folk who like me do not even wish to entertain ben_vulpes ' crazy shit stick, here's http://66.media.tumblr.com/9d05f4cbccceb87877c4c1e8d693b456/tumblr_inline_n4vcjtU6Px1qjk6pl.gif
16:55 asciilifeform lol!
16:55 ben_vulpes hah HAH
16:56 ben_vulpes harumph.
16:56 mircea_popescu "hey honey, is this deserialized yet ?"
16:56 trinque henceforth working on trb was known throughout the land as "doughfucking"
16:57 ben_vulpes yeah, fuck satoshis dough.
16:57 ben_vulpes fudgepacker, not in the sexual sense but in the sense of going overboard packing shit too tightly where it didn't matter and not thinking rigorously about ~anything that did
16:57 trinque lel
16:57 ben_vulpes perhaps unfair, but i am irked.
16:58 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: see also the 'c thread' from earlier today, for more of same.
16:58 mircea_popescu hey, to revisit the previous discussion,
16:58 mircea_popescu ah yes, exactly. alf keeps stealing my ideas and then passing them off as his!
16:58 asciilifeform (c programmer assumes that 'i am sitting on the metal' and ergo anything he is not seeing, is not in the picture)
17:01 * ben_vulpes saw, refilled the backup wtf tank
17:08 asciilifeform https://archive.is/03JXi << in other lulz. AAAANYTHING but using actual crypto!
~ 27 minutes ~
17:35 asciilifeform !!up gabriel_laddel
17:35 deedbot gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
17:36 gabriel_laddel $$ later tell dina_corman gentoo distfile backups
↖
17:36 gabriel_laddel http://bbgentoo.ilb.ru/distfiles/
17:36 gabriel_laddel http://ftp.nluug.nl/os/Linux/distr/gentoo/distfiles/
17:36 gabriel_laddel http://fi.archive.ubuntu.com/gentoo/distfiles/
17:36 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: if you make a new pgp key, i will rate you
17:36 gabriel_laddel http://funtoo.neu.edu.cn/distfiles/
17:36 gabriel_laddel asciilifeform: noted.
17:37 gabriel_laddel dina_corman: I don't have the disk space to download all of them, but if you could get all the funtoo stage3 tarballs too, would be great.
17:37 gabriel_laddel http://build.funtoo.org/
17:41 trinque * diana_coman
17:41 gabriel_laddel ty
17:42 diana_coman will have a look gabriel_laddel
~ 37 minutes ~
18:19 asciilifeform 'We define algorithmic proxy custody as the automatic custody of cryptocurrency by a set of parties, where the release of cryptocurrency in custody is at least partially controlled by approval signals generated by programs run by these parties, and where programs base their approvals on the observation of a consensus for the release in another secondary blockchain, and the secondary blockchain has authoritative responsibility to comm
18:19 asciilifeform and the release. Once the command is produced, it is fully authoritative and proxy custodians must obey.' << ahahahaha will this idiocy never die
18:20 asciilifeform >> http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-13#920116 << oblig.
18:20 a111 Logged on 2014-11-13 19:06 asciilifeform: bip64, aside from complicating the protocol and giving relevance to the gavin shitgang, is also a jam-tomorrow chumpatronic engineering structural element
18:21 asciilifeform the enemy is dull, but not so dull that he does not grasp the most hospitable place on the tank's armour to stick the mine onto. i.e. lock up as much coin as possible behind chastity belts of whatever possible kind.
18:22 asciilifeform the second prong of this, as described in the leaked mit slides last year, is to declare unbelted coin 'terrorist' and simultaneously shitcoin it from use at coinbase, bitpay, etc.
↖
18:23 asciilifeform !#s permissioned
18:23 a111 6 results for "permissioned", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=permissioned
18:23 asciilifeform ^ see also.
18:25 pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: aha. listened to 'no ceilings' maybe 6 months ago for the first time and was relatively unimpressed. on the other hand i just found an unlabeled cd in my car that turned out to be 'drought iii' and i'm currently quite enjoying the walk down memory lane.
18:26 ben_vulpes opening is okay
18:26 ben_vulpes good lines scattered about. otherwise, entirely meh.
18:26 pete_dushenski cars, computers, and rap apparently all peaked between '07-'10
18:28 ben_vulpes "how come every joint on point like a harpoon"
18:28 ben_vulpes classic shit.
18:29 * pete_dushenski is quite enjoying "jay"'s 4.6l all-aluminum v8 atm now that he's commuting more. a radar detector is now near the top of the shopping list (yes, they're legal here)
18:30 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: enjoy it while it lasts, here in mordor speed ticketing is ~100% camera-on-wheels
18:33 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: my early research indicates that premium radar detectors a la valentine1 detect 'camera-on-wheels' on k and ka bands
↖
18:33 pete_dushenski if perhaps with less warning than manned radar gun
18:34 pete_dushenski https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7F7TVM8m95Y << your b-minor for the day
18:34 ben_vulpes lmk if you want to commission a laser jammer pete_dushenski
18:34 pete_dushenski o ?
18:35 ben_vulpes been thinking about 'em for a while now.
18:36 ben_vulpes those little 30W modules asciilifeform found could take one out permamently.
18:38 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1552100 << sorry pete_dushenski , this is a physics-nope.
18:38 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 22:33 pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: my early research indicates that premium radar detectors a la valentine1 detect 'camera-on-wheels' on k and ka bands
18:38 asciilifeform thing works by having 2 cameras, each with licenseplate ocr
18:39 asciilifeform if you appear on camera b too soon after appearing in camera a, you get ticket.
↖
18:39 pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: what do you need to get started on the commission ? time, money, both ?
18:40 ben_vulpes it's be a pretty pricey project, i don't really expect anyone to fund it.
18:40 asciilifeform (i will point out, it is not necessary for camera 'a' and 'b' to be sprouting from the same cabinet, though afaik they usually do)
18:40 ben_vulpes part of the 'catalogue of hardware for asymmetric statal combat'
18:40 ben_vulpes doubles as tire-popper!
18:41 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: from my own experiments, and i hate to be the one to rain on the 'cheap blaster' parade - ir laser does not go far outdoors in the air. unless said air is peculiarly dry.
18:41 asciilifeform (it is absorbed by water.)
18:42 asciilifeform ben_vulpes however must not take my word for this, ought to set up a tube and camera etc.
18:42 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: http://radartest.com/Photo-Radar-Test.asp
18:42 asciilifeform at the very least because mircea_popescu will only believe it if somebody other than asciilifeform says 'won't work'
18:43 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: tire's emissivity implies decent conversion of non-ir wavelengths to heat, is this mistaken?
18:43 ben_vulpes (s/tire/rubber)
18:43 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: the linked item appears to feature a normal radar thing
18:43 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: conversion long before reaching target.
18:43 asciilifeform makes for an impressive 'scifi' blaster beam though.
18:43 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: this is exactly 'camera-on-wheels'
18:44 asciilifeform (think, when you can see the beam, the light is not reaching the victim)
18:44 pete_dushenski 'camera-on-pole' is a differnt beast, ofc.
18:44 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: nope, your item is camera-cum-radargun-on-wheels
18:44 asciilifeform which is obsolete.
18:45 asciilifeform there is an imho interesting dynamic in speedtraps though, where the enforcement is never permitted to become ideal, or folks will simply drive very slowly and commerce grinds to a halt
18:45 asciilifeform so they are given 'sporting chance'
18:46 asciilifeform several years ago, a massive toll road opened where i live. if you go on it from one end to the other, you go through a dozen or so rfid arches.
18:46 asciilifeform (there is no other way to pay the toll, and license plate cameras look for deadheads)
18:46 asciilifeform so they could in THEORY bill 100% of the speeders
18:46 asciilifeform i.e. folks who reach arch N too quickly after reaching arch 1.
18:46 asciilifeform BUT they do not do this.
18:46 asciilifeform instead, there are 6 police cars working in shifts, with TRADITIONAL radar...
18:47 asciilifeform the 'sporting' aspect.
18:47 ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: in other "peak hip hop": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOzt_uPV-xA feat a young nikki and wayne sampling his own damn self
18:48 asciilifeform (incidentally, this principle is applicable - fundamental theorem of calculus!111 - to all speed traps - police could simply observe that your license plate appeared on street S1 too soon after it was seen on street S0 ! BUT observe, this is done in no city anywhere.)
18:49 pete_dushenski ben_vulpes lol she even ~sounds~ like a (much) lil(er) girl
18:49 ben_vulpes "fuck i look like? i'm lookin for a bitch that can fuck right, cook right. and if not, then left foot, right, get to steppin, yeah bitch walk like."
18:52 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: lol you're joking rite. no city ? anywhere ? try THE ENTIRETY of airstrip one. the whole thing. it's one big trap of 'time from a to b should be =<x or else ticket mailed to house'
~ 17 minutes ~
19:09 ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4Tv7lAt3r4
19:10 ben_vulpes if you're in a hurry, jump to 17:45
19:11 pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: diggin it. not even a huge wu-tang fan either.
19:11 mircea_popescu http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161003/#607 << just in time for "nobody uses banks anymore anyway"
19:11 scriba Something went wrong while attempting to read the log.
19:11 scriba Exception: ['utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 6698: invalid start byte]
19:12 pete_dushenski in other panics, https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/sep/30/nasa-new-zodiac-sign-ophiuchus-astrology-space
19:12 mircea_popescu http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161003/#618 << it's diana not dina ; it's coman not corman and its !~ not $$. but otherwise totally lol.
19:12 scriba Something went wrong while attempting to read the log.
19:12 scriba Exception: ['utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 6698: invalid start byte]
19:13 mircea_popescu http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161003/#624 << well not for as long as you keep linking it
↖
19:13 scriba Something went wrong while attempting to read the log.
19:13 scriba Exception: ['utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 6698: invalid start byte]
19:13 mircea_popescu oh for chrissakes.
19:14 pete_dushenski http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551791 << no quarterly forecasts. no 'double-digit growth estimated'. and yet... there's growth aplenty. in spades.
19:14 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 16:46 mircea_popescu: how is it that the republic can do just fine progressing at the clip of its own progress, no faster than that, nor slower ; and that while we don't specifically wnat to "do things" or set goals, nevertheless we do things and achieve (other people's) goals ?
19:15 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1552088 << which will result in a swift going under of bitpay.
↖
19:15 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 22:22 asciilifeform: the second prong of this, as described in the leaked mit slides last year, is to declare unbelted coin 'terrorist' and simultaneously shitcoin it from use at coinbase, bitpay, etc.
19:18 pete_dushenski http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1552051 << shan-to-the-ah, tov-to-the-...-also-ah
19:18 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 20:54 ben_vulpes: shana tova
19:19 ben_vulpes who all is even in l1 right now?
19:19 * ben_vulpes does not feel like combing through deedbot's sexpr output at this moment
19:20 mircea_popescu and in other rap news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/56c2e25b663d2159e09edaadb9191b8e/tumblr_nb24e741rw1qc2yxpo1_1280.jpg
19:20 ben_vulpes rerun!
19:21 mircea_popescu jus' like wayne.
19:21 * ben_vulpes cocks head, scratches chin
19:21 pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: http://trilema.com/2016/the-lordship-list-third-year-on-trilema-this-time/ ?
19:21 ben_vulpes yeah, reading that pete_dushenski
19:22 trinque !!ratings deedbot
19:22 deedbot http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/h55xw/?raw=true
19:23 trinque ben_vulpes: ^
19:23 trinque no combing necessary.
19:23 pete_dushenski !#s from:mircea_popescu meditate
19:23 a111 10 results for "from:mircea_popescu meditate", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Amircea_popescu%20meditate
19:23 pete_dushenski ^ re : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1552021
19:23 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 20:49 mircea_popescu: who the fuck meditates.
19:23 ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: plz to add ratings to bots.contravex
19:23 * trinque checks his own docs
19:24 ben_vulpes trinque: should i be looking somewhere besides http://deedbot.org/faq.html ?
19:24 trinque isn't in mine; gimme a bit and I'll ping you, pete_dushenski.
19:24 ben_vulpes ah no, help
19:24 ben_vulpes trinque: didn't see that.
19:24 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski fine!
19:24 pete_dushenski trinque: kk
19:24 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: lol gotcha
19:24 trinque isn't on there though, gimme sec ben_vulpes
19:26 ben_vulpes it's in the deedbot link on faq
19:26 ben_vulpes hey can we kill dns yet?
19:26 trinque you can kill dns any time
19:26 mircea_popescu almost.
19:27 ben_vulpes i'm fair loathe to make more entries in an informal, non-republican dht
19:27 pete_dushenski bots directory updates with !!ratings
19:28 mircea_popescu be specific ?
19:29 pete_dushenski *updated
19:32 trinque I didn't write docs for it yet
19:32 trinque the damn horses, hold them.
19:33 pete_dushenski sorry, nelly got away from me there
19:34 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1552155 << it was re: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551934 .
19:34 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 23:13 mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161003/#624 << well not for as long as you keep linking it
19:34 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 20:02 shinohai: http://archive.is/JrAnI <<< so like colored coins, but better?
19:34 scriba Something went wrong while attempting to read the log.
19:34 scriba Exception: ['utf-8' codec can't decode byte 0xfc in position 6698: invalid start byte]
19:35 pete_dushenski bbl. !!ratings removed from directory until further notice from trinque.
19:35 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1552161 << isn't bpay powered by zombie tears already ?
19:35 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 23:15 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1552088 << which will result in a swift going under of bitpay.
19:36 mircea_popescu yeah, but atm still hopes of future.
19:37 shinohai so is coinbase/gdax
19:41 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu asciilifeform BingoBoingo diana_coman hanbot trinque mod6 danielpbarron mike_c asciilifeform davout phf jurov http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/nd2t0/?raw=true
19:42 mircea_popescu also http://66.media.tumblr.com/7540848024c312cf08fbb578f2104385/tumblr_niooo0lwXg1rhw4clo1_250.gif
19:43 ben_vulpes and in other recent lolz, a block just came through with 2 transactions in it including the coinbase
19:44 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes all i see is your blog ?
19:44 ben_vulpes if you hit the ip raw that's all you'll get
19:45 mircea_popescu oh for chrissakes
19:45 asciilifeform aha i did same thing
19:45 asciilifeform imho this is lame
19:45 asciilifeform (the access control mechanism, not the tool, the tool is spiffy)
19:45 ben_vulpes moar subdomains?
19:45 mircea_popescu there's better ways to handle passwords than to ask people to alias things
19:46 ben_vulpes ain't a password.
19:46 mircea_popescu think about it.
↖
19:46 asciilifeform i dun like turning the missile key unless there is good reason.
19:47 trinque how otherwise to abandon using DNS?
19:47 ben_vulpes ^
19:47 mircea_popescu mmm
19:48 mircea_popescu ie, the ip sharing aspect of dns you mean ?
19:49 trinque aha
19:50 mircea_popescu i confess i never thought about that
19:50 * mircea_popescu just buys whole ip blocks.
19:50 trinque guess it could be "folders"
19:51 trinque whole thing is broken until gossipd-year-0
19:51 mircea_popescu i have plenty spare ; i guess in my head it's a thing in the vein of the megawatt standard.
19:51 ben_vulpes i can get more ips, did not expect this caltrop
19:51 mircea_popescu trinque yeah thinking about it i am not sure we actually wish to salvage that particular aspect altogether. do we ?
19:52 * ben_vulpes bbl, bike
19:54 trinque it's a second place for namespacing aside the URL, which ~is simply wwwcruft
19:55 trinque atop gossipd I think the *entire* "this website" thing goes, replaced by "I would like the thing identified by hash ..., do my friends have it?"
19:57 trinque the browser and "cache" is replaced by a proper database which stacks these items and creates a www locally. whether items were retained would be a matter of implementation (perhaps some measure of proximity to one's own wot, or the operator having given the item his V-tronic seal)
19:58 trinque er, not www-locally, a web. :P
20:01 trinque going over it again, it appears to reduce to gossiping vpatches and seals of a format which can reference vpatch hashes.
20:02 trinque this handily solves the "I linked this motherfucking item in this state" not "well y'know, it used to be over here ..."
20:15 mircea_popescu no, evidently it works fine in gossipd
20:16 mircea_popescu the wonderment is how much of the crap to preserve on the way there and in which order
20:18 mircea_popescu in other lulz,
20:18 mircea_popescu "I am Mr. John Forbes Kerry, United States Secretary of State by profession. This is to inform you officially that after our investigations with the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and other Security Agencies in the Country for the year ended 2015, we discovered that you have not receive your fund."
20:18 mircea_popescu ( Subject: U.S Department of State 2201 C Street NW Washington, DC 20520. Contact phone number (+709 701-4615) )
20:19 asciilifeform mother africa cries!11111111
20:20 mircea_popescu for a moment there i thought kerry was diagnosed with cancer and is leaving his diamonds to orphans or somesuch
~ 30 minutes ~
20:51 trinque pete_dushenski: http://deedbot.org/help.html << updated
20:52 deedbot http://trilema.com/2016/the-latest-lolz-from-the-department-of-state/ << Trilema - The latest lolz from the Department of State
~ 27 minutes ~
21:20 mircea_popescu and in other highschool, http://67.media.tumblr.com/70eae367a99ceeb30555b43e865a227f/tumblr_n6e73uWk1q1r6lsuho1_400.gif
~ 25 minutes ~
21:45 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551840 << here's a thought - mircea_popescu , didja ever consider having the game come on ~bootable dvd~ ?! 1980s this-floppy-is-game-and-its-os style.
21:45 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 18:26 mircea_popescu: if anyone is inclined to maintain forks of any linux distro (much in the manner of trb - to clean, not to "support"/utf/systemd/etc) we can prolly work something out.
21:46 asciilifeform you could use trb-rotor almost as-is, if you went to this.
21:46 asciilifeform game in kernel!
21:46 shinohai That's an interesting though .....
21:47 shinohai *thought
21:47 asciilifeform 'control vertical and horizontal' (tm)(r)
21:48 adlai (s) pls
21:49 asciilifeform also does the thing really ~need~ gnu, or would mesa on a fast cpu suffice
21:50 asciilifeform (does mircea_popescu's circa-'04 gpu actually beat mesa-on-intel7 , say?)
21:50 asciilifeform *need gpu
21:50 asciilifeform gpu.
21:50 adlai Real Software Needs FPGA(tm)(S)(r)
21:50 asciilifeform adlai: sober yet?
21:50 adlai lol fuckno
21:51 adlai i wake up dronk!
21:51 asciilifeform ffs adlai
21:51 * adlai has tasks to accomplish, pls to not disturb -- https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-wizards/
21:52 adlai or should i -- save the page again {KLIK} -- http://archive.is/wnKMH
21:53 adlai ... that's a long-to-archive /stream!
21:53 asciilifeform wallowing with the eagles, i see
21:54 adlai the eagles saved sam and frodo (in that order -- who even even gave a shit about the ringbearer?)
21:54 * adlai really owes some meatwot guy the spamatron, could use an excuse to build it
↖
21:55 adlai (ftr - guy paid me to write it, i didn't, sent back coin, he sent back 1/3 coin for the "research" i did thus far, and wants it completed someday)
21:56 asciilifeform adlai: fyi kanzure is in my meat l1. he self-confessedly serves evil.
21:57 * adlai knows that he works for 'ledger x'
21:57 adlai s/ks/ked/
21:57 * adlai should maybe write regexbot before spamatron! definitely a lower branch.
21:57 asciilifeform i have nfi re the other whizzards.
21:58 adlai well, the bsmprimeprimeprimeprimeprime guy has been publishing reasonably intelligent material for a while
21:58 adlai he's trying to fix the latency issue. i'm not sure it can be fixed, but he's trying.
↖
21:58 asciilifeform sooo why ain't he here.
21:58 asciilifeform if 'intelligent'
21:58 adlai because i'm a better troll than publicistL
21:59 adlai s/L/L/
21:59 adlai s/L/?/ did i just prove my point
21:59 asciilifeform *meat l2
21:59 adlai aha!
21:59 adlai there's a worldova difference between L1 and L2
22:00 adlai for this reason, btw, i'm quite pissed that ben_vulpes deeds his shit at deedbot's L1
22:00 asciilifeform i tend to count from 0 in my head,
22:00 asciilifeform always.
22:00 adlai i meat, wtf. has ben_vulpes even met, ie, ... pete_dushenski ?
22:00 asciilifeform afaik nobody here has, yet
22:00 asciilifeform other than himself
22:00 adlai well i like his blog, it's spiffy!
22:01 asciilifeform also ~what~ latency issue
22:01 asciilifeform .
22:01 asciilifeform ?
22:02 * adlai suddenly corrects himself -- pete_dushenski was not part of the highlight. whether he was a member of the can-encrypt set, is a matter too deep to reversee in /me's current state
↖
22:02 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes.
22:02 asciilifeform aaaah which yes ?
22:03 mircea_popescu as well as making a text-only client to obviate the obnoxious gfx thing
22:03 mircea_popescu but ... takes time
22:03 mircea_popescu "bootable dvd"
22:03 adlai well... i'm not certain that bsmblahblah can produce an algorithm which will be softforked by existing btcminers, and never revoked (ie, miners fired) by existing holders; but he's trying to give a more-quantifiable "confirmation" value
22:03 adlai currently, the confirmation value has a resolution of ~minuties
22:03 adlai minutes
22:03 asciilifeform adlai: waiwat
22:03 adlai hours, if you care about a binary value
22:04 * adlai doesn't sell coin irl for less
22:04 asciilifeform none of this makes sense, adlai
22:04 trinque he's fucking drunk and rambling.
22:04 asciilifeform conf is denominated in blocks
22:04 asciilifeform neh?
22:04 adlai correct.
22:04 asciilifeform so what minutes adlai ?
22:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: text client a la '80s mud ?
22:05 mircea_popescu just about
22:05 asciilifeform that would rock.
22:05 mircea_popescu adlai i think you deeply misunderstand deedbot.
22:06 mircea_popescu why am i reading this shit anyway. /me skips it.
22:06 adlai AIUI (and that's capitalized for a reason -- he may disagree with me, as might any other educated reader of his papers and drafts) , there could be a system wherein clients publish blocks at some frequency, wherein some of the blocks are not valid "bitcoin-according-to-satoshi" blocks, but you still get a sense of how likely is the apparance of the next "bitcoin-as-in-satoshi" block
22:06 asciilifeform WHY
22:07 adlai ask him!
22:07 asciilifeform should this be a thing
22:07 asciilifeform HE isn't here
22:07 adlai /pm bsm117532 or whatever his nick is today :(
22:07 * adlai is quite pissed that the man/child actually changed nicks to "prove a point"
22:07 asciilifeform so i ask adlai . who saw it fit to convey this nonsense to us here
22:07 adlai do i need to pretend to go to sleep again?
22:08 asciilifeform pray tell adlai , why should this be a thing to consider
22:08 adlai do i need to pretend to go to sleep again?
22:08 asciilifeform nono, i'd like to know
22:09 asciilifeform adlai: you could answer 'entomological', but i read the link, and it would seem like you see something in there as a worthwhile idea. and i would like to know what..
22:09 adlai because http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-04#1552277 -- and incidentally, i'm curious as fuck what exactly the WoT relationship between asciilifeform and kanzure is, since it sounds like maybe you know (irl!) somebody who knows him, or somesuch
22:09 a111 Logged on 2016-10-04 01:54 adlai really owes some meatwot guy the spamatron, could use an excuse to build it
22:09 asciilifeform adlai: correct
22:09 adlai what is correct? too many antecedents
22:10 asciilifeform adlai: i went to uni with a meat friend of his.
22:10 adlai define 'friend'
22:10 adlai has 'friend'
22:10 adlai has 'friend' signed his pgp fingerprint? the full shit, not the eight ascii chars
22:10 * trinque finds this whole thing deeply irritating
22:11 mircea_popescu yeah. adlai go to bed.
22:11 adlai better yet, the entire key
22:11 * adlai sighs
22:11 asciilifeform adlai: i have nfi why you might care, but the fella vanished long ago. and was never enwotted.
22:11 adlai which fella?
22:11 asciilifeform dude who introduced me to kanzure originally.
22:12 adlai so you met kanzure irl?
22:12 * adlai has seen him on youtube, this is roughly the same?
22:12 adlai meeting some shmuck irl means ~nothing
22:12 asciilifeform nope. and wouldn't care to.
22:13 adlai ok, so he's not in your "L2", he's in your "L-finite"
22:13 adlai as opposed to L-planet
22:13 asciilifeform i did say 'meat'.
22:13 adlai so what?
22:13 adlai you live in mordor, bro!
22:13 adlai hitler is in your L-meat
22:13 asciilifeform probably
22:14 * adlai bbl, writing spamatron
22:16 asciilifeform !!rated kanzure
22:16 deedbot asciilifeform rated kanzure -1 at 2014/06/21 22:40:29 << minor-league quisling; inquire within
22:16 asciilifeform ^ re subj.
22:16 mircea_popescu !!rated kanzure
22:16 deedbot mircea_popescu has not rated kanzure.
22:17 asciilifeform kid was cursed, at very young age, with being 'esr rich'
↖
22:17 asciilifeform now the dough is running short
22:17 asciilifeform so off he went, in search of cock to suck
22:17 asciilifeform and found usg's welcoming zipper open
22:17 mircea_popescu name's vaguely familiar
22:18 asciilifeform he is omnipresent in the circle adlai linked to
22:18 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Akanzure
22:19 asciilifeform he is currently employed, or last i knew, providing 'mathematical' flavouring to 'power rangers' of various stripes.
22:19 adlai sorry for reappearing so soon after "bbl", but - what does 'esr rich' mean? i struggled not-too-longago with a friend telling me "oh yes, that's shit that 'people with money' have in their house" (over random crap my idiot dad had), so... pray, what is "esr rich"?
22:20 asciilifeform #!s esr
22:20 mircea_popescu the reference is to eric raymond
22:20 adlai "struggled" = wanted to yell at him, "you idiot, what do you mean by that, i'm just as poor as you" - but realizing that i'm less poor than him, but... still poor.
22:20 adlai yeah i know who esr is
22:20 adlai what is 'esr rich', though?
22:20 * adlai has won no startup lottery
22:20 asciilifeform #!s surprised by wealth
22:20 asciilifeform grr
22:20 asciilifeform !#s surprised by wealth
22:20 a111 9 results for "surprised by wealth", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=surprised%20by%20wealth
22:21 * adlai decides to ignore kanzure thread, keep musing on spamatron
22:21 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2016/asscience/#selection-193.73-197.16 << esr rich.
22:21 adlai arguably - spamatron is the most important "bitcoin 2.0" app
22:22 asciilifeform adlai: do not envy lottery winners. car wreck victims have better, as a rule, outcomes.
22:22 adlai dude i've lived^H^H^Hread the trilema article on suacide
22:23 asciilifeform still living it, it looks to me
22:23 adlai and that's not a fucking typo, in case you don't know the joke -- "how did arafat die? suacide"
22:23 asciilifeform get rid of the bottle, adlai .
22:23 adlai b-b-but i just opened the second!
22:23 asciilifeform eh.
22:23 mircea_popescu if you ever wondered what uppity tortilla'd have been like if born intelligent.
↖
22:24 mircea_popescu but in the end, it all comes down to arguably the most important etc.
22:24 * adlai corks it, for now at least, and goes back to musing on spamatron
22:34 adlai fwiw - and bottle is still corked! - mircea's link doesn't cover folks who can live off of fiat wot, however short a time that lasts... ie, /me mostly lives off charity from $whatever-wot, but doesn't have to sell his btc. does this make him evil?
22:34 adlai this situation is remarkably identical to that of gabri^Idamnit
22:40 trinque put another cork in whichever hole is leaking your internal monologue
~ 54 minutes ~
23:34 * adlai wonders why the _v_ in http://thebitcoin.foundation/trb-howto.html when invoking v.pl
23:42 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1551914 << Prodrug, requires metabolism to be activated. Much more gentle phamakinetic curve this way, low abuse potential.
23:42 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 19:18 mircea_popescu: we are discussing very unlikely situations here. back when i was a kid, codeine as a phosophorous salt was the child cough remedy ; i took plenty ; so did other kids. did ~nothing.
23:46 adlai deedbot: http://dpaste.com/2EX9RJF.txt
23:47 adlai !!deed http://dpaste.com/2EX9RJF.txt
23:47 deedbot accepted: 1
23:54 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-03#1552110 << VASCAR 2.0!!!!
23:54 a111 Logged on 2016-10-03 22:39 asciilifeform: if you appear on camera b too soon after appearing in camera a, you get ticket.
23:56 mod6 adlai: what was your question?
23:56 adlai mod6: the shit fails, i'm trying to figure out why, but meanwhile, it's deeded - whatever that's worth
↖
23:56 mod6 what seems to be the problem?
23:57 adlai Expected: 9c1e59cf1a30c33950cf5d6ffc202437bff08724cba0d4c07ed7390a6fa17bb5451a96ec2bde1b87b2b137bb0c908c32d985deea918d7b28767ed5db489de649
23:57 adlai Actual: eed44c23a600b00eb70f3c7998d579c86bb62eb4018cd95934cdf56fdde70dc3500053e7816768605dcb5e3063505d0dbea6e4a604b02014eed210a112a38001
23:57 adlai Pressed file hash did not match expected!
23:58 pete_dushenski !!reputation
23:58 deedbot http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/p5bvs/?raw=true
23:58 mod6 adlai: can you run `./v.pl f` and wotpaste it?
23:59 adlai http://dpaste.com/1R0SW2N.txt
23:59 pete_dushenski cool beans. http://bots.contravex.com updated, trinque.
23:59 trinque sweet.
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