Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-03-06 | 2016-03-08 → ↓
00:23 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28200 @ 0.00054332 = 15.3216 BTC [+] {2}
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00:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16000 @ 0.0005396 = 8.6336 BTC [-] {4}
00:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00053958 = 6.367 BTC [-] {2}
00:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22780 @ 0.00053958 = 12.2916 BTC [-]
00:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.0005387 = 10.9625 BTC [-] {4}
00:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39753 @ 0.00053843 = 21.4042 BTC [-] {3}
00:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44948 @ 0.00053743 = 24.1564 BTC [-] {2}
00:57 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22778 @ 0.00053734 = 12.2395 BTC [-] {3}
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01:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38000 @ 0.00054122 = 20.5664 BTC [+] {2}
01:28 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41500 @ 0.00054285 = 22.5283 BTC [+] {2}
01:37 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4143 @ 0.00054122 = 2.2423 BTC [-]
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01:59 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22863 @ 0.00053687 = 12.2745 BTC [-] {3}
02:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27522 @ 0.00053685 = 14.7752 BTC [-] {3}
02:19 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31800 @ 0.00053673 = 17.068 BTC [-] {4}
02:26 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18435 @ 0.0005363 = 9.8867 BTC [-] {2}
02:27 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21065 @ 0.00053618 = 11.2946 BTC [-] {2}
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02:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19700 @ 0.00053576 = 10.5545 BTC [-] {4}
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03:04 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18900 @ 0.00053646 = 10.1391 BTC [+]
03:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16150 @ 0.0005357 = 8.6516 BTC [-] {4}
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04:01 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57254 @ 0.00053547 = 30.6578 BTC [-] {2}
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04:45 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33150 @ 0.00053668 = 17.7909 BTC [+] {2}
04:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44200 @ 0.00053547 = 23.6678 BTC [-]
04:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54877 @ 0.00053544 = 29.3833 BTC [-] {2}
04:57 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27300 @ 0.000537 = 14.6601 BTC [+]
~ 18 minutes ~
05:16 punkman "You are using GnuPG version 1.4.12, which is not supported anymore. Enigmail requires GnuPG version 2.0.7 or newer. Please upgrade your GnuPG installation, or Enigmail will not work"
05:16 punkman not like I used it anyway but annoying
~ 34 minutes ~
05:51 deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b136
~ 55 minutes ~
06:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57600 @ 0.0005346 = 30.793 BTC [-] {4}
06:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22700 @ 0.00053427 = 12.1279 BTC [-] {2}
~ 17 minutes ~
07:05 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52257 @ 0.00053565 = 27.9915 BTC [+]
07:09 nubbins` morning folks
07:09 nubbins` http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424380 << against better judgment, i figured i'd go back and re-read sturles' conversation just in case i'd missed something
07:09 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan.
07:10 nubbins` all i see is mp and alf complaining loudly that sturles' node shouldn't work the way it does because it's improper
07:10 nubbins` but, of course, it does
07:10 nubbins` if that's a "theory falling apart", i'd like to see you guys take on gravity, or germ theory
07:11 nubbins` "little tiny bugs shouldn't be able to hurt a hyooman!"
07:14 nubbins` !rate mircea_popescu -1 tinpot dictator, throws tantrums when embarrassed. petulant and unwilling to admit error in the face of overwhelming evidence. a poor example of how a lord should behave. great for milking a few BTC from, but otherwise avoid.
07:14 assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/f72bd9d5b92dba3d
07:15 nubbins` !v assbot:nubbins`.rate.mircea_popescu.-1:c4b87f050b85b49aada6a81e8e32c6367bd53b43f88ada62c95a94b10e8e417d
07:15 assbot Successfully updated the rating for mircea_popescu from 2 to -1 with note: tinpot dictator, throws tantrums when embarrassed. petulant and unwilling to admit error in the face of overwhelming evidence. a poor example of how a lord should behave. great for milking a few BTC from, but otherwise avoid.
07:16 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46350 @ 0.00053421 = 24.7606 BTC [-] {2}
07:26 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62443 @ 0.00053565 = 33.4476 BTC [+]
07:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8999 @ 0.00053609 = 4.8243 BTC [+]
07:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56600 @ 0.00053791 = 30.4457 BTC [+] {4}
07:48 shinohai ;;ticker --market all
07:48 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 410.5, vol: 5166.35971885 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 412.934, vol: 7021.9455 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 410.5, vol: 13974.58828093 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 408.0, vol: 1.20992211 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.4288, vol: 52510.01710000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 408.494, vol: 1300.31356398 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 410.81265, vol: 235.90882398 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
07:49 shinohai ;;more
07:49 gribble 416.52671852
07:51 nubbins` weird that the chinese mining cartel revealing themselves hasn't affected the exchange rate
07:51 nubbins` you'd think it'd be a big deal
07:52 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21620 @ 0.00053609 = 11.5903 BTC [-] {2}
07:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00053609 = 3.699 BTC [-]
08:00 nubbins` maybe the market got confused and accidentally dumped 500btc worth of MPOE over the last 24 hours instead of dumping all their btc
08:03 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33495 @ 0.00053609 = 17.9563 BTC [-]
08:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.0005392 = 2.5882 BTC [+] {2}
08:21 danielpbarron nubbins`, it looks like you're the one throwing a tantrum, and it "shouldn't work that way" is the general complaint in here against bitcoin for some time now. this event was more like the last straw kinda thing
08:23 nubbins` nah, just making quips
08:24 nubbins` and "shouldn't work that way" does not mean the same thing as "did not happen"
08:24 nubbins` http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424380
08:24 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan.
08:24 nubbins` ^ did it, though? feel free to link.
08:24 kakobrekla i dont think it did.
08:25 nubbins` that's because it didn't
08:25 nubbins` but mp hears what he wants
08:27 nubbins` in fact, no rebuttal to sturles' explanation was offered -- just a lot of gnashing about "but that's crazy!"
08:28 assbot [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 396 @ 0.00271748 = 1.0761 BTC [-] {2}
08:31 * nubbins` is a bit surprised that more lords aren't concerned about mp's shame leading him to proposing an altcoin as the way forward
08:32 danielpbarron i'm not interested in bitcoin if he's not interested in it
↖ ↖
08:33 danielpbarron it's not like the code is something wonderful to behold. The only thing it had going for it was that some important people found a use in it for a time
08:33 shinohai Not a lord here, but I have a lot of time invested in trb and I agree with danielpbarron.
08:34 shinohai Eventually one has to stop building with legos and mve on to more robust materials.
08:34 nubbins` if mp no longer finds a use for btc, i'm eagerly awaiting the liquidation of all mpex assets
08:35 nubbins` danielpbarron if your interest in a subject is predicated on who else is interested in it, then i have no sensible response
08:35 kakobrekla actually this somewhat fixes "bitcoin is too accessible" as the requirements to include tx in a block are having your own block producing setup
08:36 asciilifeform kakobrekla: except - cartel. go, make a block.
↖
08:37 kakobrekla obv its not accessible to me!
08:37 nubbins` http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424380
08:37 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan.
08:37 nubbins` asciilifeform care to offer an opinion on ^
08:38 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32150 @ 0.00053591 = 17.2295 BTC [-] {4}
08:38 nubbins` kako and i seem to agree that nothing about sturles' theory "fell apart upon examination", although we'd both be eager to hear your thoughts on the topic
08:39 nubbins` bbl coffee/breakfast
08:39 asciilifeform nubbins`: the point re: mpex is valid imho.
08:39 nubbins` asciilifeform first things first, sturles' theory: fell apart upon examination or no?
08:40 asciilifeform it did not explain mircea_popescu's observations though
08:40 asciilifeform gotta explain the resurrected tx, no?
08:41 asciilifeform i saw same thing when sending a lee sedol bet a few wks ago
08:41 punkman gotta explain why the 0fee tx wasn't visible in anyone's mempool for days, although I don't know how exactly mp examined the mempools and of which nodes he was connecting to
08:41 shinohai Also has been seen by outside source according to: http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47975
08:41 assbot A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1U4Gyyn )
08:42 asciilifeform (and here was even the high-S thing also involved)
08:42 nubbins` http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424336
08:42 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 02:49:05; nubbins`: advertising 0-fee tx's in a mempool flood is a DOS attack
08:42 punkman the fact it was resurrected is not surprising if you ask me
08:42 nubbins` my node wouldn't have broadcast A1 until the backlog subsided
08:42 nubbins` i'll broadcast 0-fee tx's when it suits me, not the other way around
08:42 asciilifeform punkman: he has, iirc, a thing that tries to connect to 'anyone who's anyone' as determined by his intel
08:43 asciilifeform punkman: i have nfi , ask him when he wakes up
08:43 nubbins` <+asciilifeform>punkman: he has, iirc, a thing that tries to connect to 'anyone who's anyone' as determined by his intel << seems his intel connected him to a shit set of nodes
08:43 asciilifeform !s reactor test
08:43 assbot 2 results for 'reactor test' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=reactor+test
08:44 asciilifeform ^ see above.
08:45 punkman anyway if someone can replicate the experiment with similarly old coins, that would not favor the bitbet-screwed-by-miners theory
08:46 nubbins` i could, as i've got an enormous amount of coins that haven't moved in a very long time
08:47 nubbins` but i have extremely low incentive to help mp exorcise his ghosts
08:47 nubbins` shinohai re: the link you posted
08:47 nubbins` how'd the mempool look when that guy's tx was sent out?
08:47 nubbins` homework for ya
08:48 jurov i can offer coinbr users' coins for the experiments... seems using users' funds is en vogue
08:48 nubbins` lel
08:48 asciilifeform one more thing. careful readers of the logz will have noticed that the cn miners have openly admitted collusion
08:49 asciilifeform i.e. gatherings for whatever purpose
08:49 nubbins` asciilifeform do note that collusion on tx relay nodes in the form of "don't broadcast 0-fee tx's if the mempool is > x" would explain observed behaviour
08:49 asciilifeform all but the resurrection
08:50 nubbins` obviously ant/f2 have node farms as well as mining farms
08:50 nubbins` if there was 60 live nodes last year, it seems extremely improbable that a mining cartel wouldn't rent out a data center and stuff it with nodes
08:50 nubbins` once that's in place, whatever rules they set are essentially universal
08:50 asciilifeform this was one of mp's accusations actually
08:50 nubbins` right.
08:51 nubbins` but that's not "deliberately withholding bitbet's tx"
08:51 nubbins` that's "withholding all 0-fee tx's during a backlog"
08:51 nubbins` which is not retarded
08:51 asciilifeform no?!
08:51 nubbins` if ant/f2 own 500 nodes out of an available 560, how in the fuck are you gonna see a transaction that they're not broadcasting?
08:52 nubbins` ESPECIALLY if you're only connected to your favourite whitelisted nodes?
08:52 asciilifeform that was his point, no? that the scum took over.
08:52 nubbins` do you have any idea how many 0-fee transactions i could make, today, with higher priority than A1?
08:53 nubbins` i could've kept A1 in limbo for a month if i'd wanted to
08:53 asciilifeform try, make? except that spamola temperature seems to be low today
08:53 nubbins` 6k unconfirmed tx's right now
08:54 asciilifeform nubbins`: most of them are spam
08:54 nubbins` A1 was spam.
08:54 asciilifeform and in fact chained crud
08:54 asciilifeform nubbins`: how so?
08:55 nubbins` 0-fee tx followed by 3 double-spend attempts in the midst of a mempool backlog
08:55 asciilifeform did it have unconfirmed inputs? No
08:55 nubbins` no, it didn't
08:55 nubbins` neither did the 20,000 transactions ahead of it with higher priority
08:56 asciilifeform how does something that ~follows~ a tx make it spam?
08:56 nubbins` how does a node operator distinguish between the 50,000 spam 0-fee tx's and bitbet's 0-fee tx?
08:57 asciilifeform the usual way?
08:57 nubbins` calling A1 spam was a stretch and not correct, but calling A1 anything other than the absolute lowest priority is unreasonable
08:57 asciilifeform age of inputs ?
08:58 asciilifeform i have nfi, btw, what the age was. did you look into it?
08:58 nubbins` again, i could create 10k tx's right now with older inputs than A1
08:58 nubbins` and i wouldn't even have to crack open two cold wallets
08:58 nubbins` asciilifeform the age of A1's inputs ranged from a couple days to a couple months iirc
08:58 asciilifeform sure. but do we have a reason to think this was done?
08:58 nubbins` do we have a reason to think which was done?
08:59 asciilifeform if it actually had 'days old' input, then this was reactor test.
09:00 asciilifeform but the resurrection still has to be explained.
09:00 * asciilifeform bbl
09:03 davout asciilifeform: any bitbet recipient had a strong incentive to rebroadcast, as soon as the second transaction actually paid them
09:03 davout not sure what makes you say that the tx reappearing needs any kind of explanation other than "people like extra money"
09:04 nubbins` look: i receive A1 when it's first broadcast, i hold onto it but i DON'T RELAY IT because my backlog is too big.
09:04 nubbins` once my backlog has been eliminated, i have no qualms about relaying A1
09:04 nubbins` but if i have a massive backlog, no 0-fee bum is gonna get a free ride
09:05 nubbins` davout +1
09:06 nubbins` if you think the relaying of A1 was triggered by B, you're daft
09:06 nubbins` an actor doing it on purpose, sure
09:07 nubbins` what bitbet payout recipient wouldn't want free coins
09:07 nubbins` hell, maybe the "bitbet stole my coinz" guy relayed it
09:08 nubbins` but a cabal saying "OK guise, he paid out from a new source, let's get A1 back out there!".... c'mon
09:08 nubbins` don't insult your own intelligence
09:10 nubbins` hmm i wonder if mp putting me on ignore means he's gotta filter me from his logs as well
09:10 nubbins` he's gonna find conversations really hard to follow
09:11 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31575 @ 0.00053402 = 16.8617 BTC [-] {2}
09:14 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9474 @ 0.00053402 = 5.0593 BTC [-]
09:15 danielpbarron asciilifeform> i have nfi, btw, what the age was. did you look into it? << http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47581
09:15 assbot A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1StXq1F )
09:17 danielpbarron nubbins`> again, i could create 10k tx's right now with older inputs than A1 << isn't this a "glass canon" as in, can only be fired once? How many nubbins` are out there with cannons? It costs money to assemble this weapon in short order. You have it from years of doing business.
09:29 shinohai http://gizmodo.com/nyc-district-attorney-conducts-biased-unsecure-survey-1762948174
09:29 assbot NYC District Attorney Conducts Biased, Unsecured Survey About How Encryption Hurts Police  ... ( http://bit.ly/1StZgjh )
09:30 shinohai "Anyone can access it and submit answers, which means that anyone can impersonate a police officer, prosecutor, or other law enforcement official."
09:33 nubbins` danielpbarron don't pretend to assume you know how many glass cannons i have
09:34 danielpbarron i'm just going by what you said
09:34 nubbins` also, don't change the argument into how feasible it is for a lowly shoemaker to pull it off
09:35 nubbins` it's irrelevant
09:35 danielpbarron that wasn't my implication. I meant "
09:35 danielpbarron "how many nubbins`" in an endearing way
09:35 nubbins` you meant that in general it's an expensive attack and would require lots of old coins
09:36 danielpbarron yes
09:36 nubbins` do you suppose there are any miners out there who'd be interested in generating a large mempool backlog for any given reason?
09:36 nubbins` do you suppose any large-scale miner would be anything but a complete fucking idiot if they haven't been socking away a percentage of each block reward for use when old coins are needed?
09:37 danielpbarron i suppose that there are plenty of groups, including miners, who would like to interfere with #bitcoin-assets properties
09:37 nubbins` i suppose you grossly overestimate what you're a part of
09:38 nubbins` look: how many new coins each day?
09:38 danielpbarron if what i'm a part of isn't as big as my estimation, I don't care for bitcoin anyway. So whatever.
09:38 danielpbarron you got your bouquinism and I got my Bible. I just hope other people have their things or it can get pretty depressing
09:40 nubbins` 3600 new coins per day, give or take
09:40 danielpbarron regarding this hypothesis that miners are socking away a percentage, why then do most coin bases have a single output?
09:41 danielpbarron as far as i know, the only pool taking advantage of the ability to create as many outputs as you want in a coin base is Luke-Jr's Eligius
09:41 nubbins` uh, you know you can move the coins again, right?
09:41 nubbins` they're not trapped in place
09:41 danielpbarron yeah but why not just do it in the first place? even older.
09:42 nubbins` easier bookkeeping, for starters
09:42 nubbins` why don't you see pool-mined blocks split the reward into a million outputs?
09:43 nubbins` because it's retarded to chop up a reward before you have to
09:43 danielpbarron well that's what Eligius does, or did last i looked into it
09:43 nubbins` this doesn't preclude the fact that /any/ individual pool miner can have 10%, or 50%, or 100% of his daily take socked away immediately into long-term storage
09:43 davout danielpbarron: just because Luke-Jr does it doesn't necessarily make it sensible
09:43 adlai p2pool does this, too
09:43 mircea_popescu and welcome to the wonder of halfway logs. sigh.
09:43 mircea_popescu davout whatever happened to xeur bot yest
09:44 nubbins` ;;echo sounds like you thought this whole ignore thing through about as much as you thought through your cartel conspiracy
09:44 gribble sounds like you thought this whole ignore thing through about as much as you thought through your cartel conspiracy
09:44 davout danielpbarron: also splitting coinbases directly hurts the miner's bottom line
09:44 nubbins` ;;echo enjoy following the convo
09:44 gribble enjoy following the convo
09:44 nubbins` davout +1
09:45 adlai splitting coinbases only makes sense for pools which actually have multiple workers
09:45 nubbins` why do extra work when the timer's counting down? adding a single extra output could mean the difference between mining a block and not
09:45 adlai (in which case, it *helps* the bottom line, sparing the cost of payout txen)
09:45 davout mircea_popescu: not sure what you're referring to?
09:46 mircea_popescu !s marketmaking from:jurov
09:46 assbot 5 results for 'marketmaking from:jurov' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=marketmaking+from%3Ajurov
09:46 nubbins` given that age is a factor in propagating tx's, it seems implausibly short-sighted to assume that miners don't keep a portion of their earnings untouched to build up age
09:46 davout mircea_popescu: these weren't me
09:47 nubbins` given that any rational miner would save old coins, it seems implausible to think that a small number of miners would be unable to create a huge mempool backlog
09:47 mircea_popescu ...
09:48 nubbins` given that it's trivial to create a large backlog of old coins, it seems implausible to think that mp's relatively new coins could not simultaneously be high enough priority to be kept in mempool but low enough priority that it's one of the last tx's to be cleared
09:49 davout bot was down last night too obviously
09:49 danielpbarron you got a blog, go investigate the age of flood inputs and write it up; i'll read it
09:50 nubbins` given that miners who run node farms aren't fucking idiots, it seems implausible to assume that halting rebroadcast of lowest-priority tx's until the backlog is cleared is not a thing that would happen
09:50 nubbins` danielpbarron why in the fuck would i do that? i'm not so cheap that i can't afford a dime for fees
09:50 mircea_popescu hence my question :)
09:50 * nubbins` has never, ever, ever had a stuck tx and is baffled as to why anyone w/ money ever would
09:51 mircea_popescu jurov approved.
09:51 nubbins` a dime. actually nine american cents at the time of the incident.
09:54 danielpbarron nubbins`, you should write it up for the sake of changing the minds of people who are so far not impressed with your unsubstantiated claims in the channel
09:55 nubbins` no, i really shouldn't
09:55 nubbins` i should just state the obvious explanation and let whoever wants to sing about cartel collusion do so
09:56 mircea_popescu check it out, 3 minute inclusion.
09:56 mircea_popescu this is novel, even for 600byte txn with above-average fees and 10^10 size inputs aged halfyear+
09:56 nubbins` idgaf about some 17btc transaction, only to point out that if someone touts targeted collusion as the most likely answer, they're probably selling something
09:57 nubbins` i actually think it's beyond mirthful that mp lost 17 btc of bitbet's money
09:58 nubbins` and is so hotly ashamed that he's resorted to this
09:58 trinque who the fuck cares what amuses you, and how does that illuminate the issue?
09:58 trinque this level of discourse is what's shameful.
10:00 mircea_popescu so yes, for the sake of keeping the record straight - it is not possible for miners to include my (high-S, btw!) txn in blocks within 2:55 if in fact running a chain head delayed reporting scheme. either it got turned off or it never existed in the first place, anyone's call.
10:01 nubbins` trinque agreed. mp's ludicrously false statements set the bar really low
10:01 nubbins` http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424380
10:01 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan.
10:01 nubbins` still waiting for someone besides mp to agree that this is what happened
10:02 nubbins` preferably with, y'know, a link to where it happened
10:02 nubbins` rather than blankly stating it to be so
10:02 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10850 @ 0.00053622 = 5.818 BTC [+]
10:04 nubbins` anyone?
10:04 nubbins` we all read the logs, yes?
10:05 nubbins` anyone else who wishes to bring up the subject of shameful discourse is welcome to revisit the logs where i began speaking on this topic
10:07 nubbins` and see who was interested in speaking like an adult and who was interested in speaking like a child
10:09 trinque regardless, it's a fine way to go forward.
10:09 trinque I've read all the l0gz
10:09 nubbins` i know everyone else likes to just let idiocy happen
10:09 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15773 @ 0.00053402 = 8.4231 BTC [-]
10:09 nubbins` i was forced by my own sanity to actually call this one for what it was
10:10 mircea_popescu adlai there's some historical charge in there : bitcoin's first and largest ponzi ran a "mining" whatever, for the obvious and transparent purpose of acquiring freshly minted coins to pay out the idiot "investors". this was a major contributor to the early crystalisation of what came to be known later as "mining pools" which is what eventually in due time coallesced into today's problem. whether it was avoidable at all
10:10 mircea_popescu or not is dubious, but that aside pirate's gpumax certainly played a major early role.
10:10 mircea_popescu people didn't use to split coinbases because they preferred to sell them, for 103% or w/e.
10:10 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13027 @ 0.00053399 = 6.9563 BTC [-] {2}
10:11 nubbins` did you guys also like how the 17 btc of mp's own money that he lost is going to be taken from shareholder dividends?
↖
10:12 nubbins` not sure how kakobrekla feels about that, but if i worked for a company where my boss gave away 17 btc of his own money and then recouped it from the company's dividends, i'd call the cops
10:13 nubbins` (bitbet, being a 0-asset corporation, did not own the funds contained in transaction B; they were ostensibly owned by mp. any funds disbursed via B are not the responsibility of bitbet in any way, shape, or form)
10:14 nubbins` in fact, the entire S.BBET february statement is fraudulent, based on this
10:14 nubbins` unfortunately, mp's gonna have to wait until he catches up on the logs to read that ^
10:15 nubbins` trinque, danielpbarron, other assorted fans?
10:16 nubbins` shinohai, kakobrekla?
10:19 shinohai !s S.BBET february statement
10:19 assbot 2 results for 'S.BBET february statement' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=S.BBET+february+statement
10:20 hanbot nubbins' your projectile posturing isn't particularly useful. mp told you, i count two? three times? yest how to form your thoughts into something reviewable.
10:20 trinque this is what I meant about the level of discourse. I have not declared myself a "fan" of anything.
10:21 hanbot you fucked that up, what, you figure more spewing is the answer?
10:21 trinque there is a scientific way to criticize a claim.
10:31 danielpbarron hi dooglus
10:31 dooglus hi
10:31 dooglus I was looking at trb, and trying to sync it from my bitcoin core node
10:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37083 @ 0.00053694 = 19.9113 BTC [+] {3}
10:32 mircea_popescu -addnode ?
10:32 dooglus I notice core won't talk to it for long before cutting it off
10:32 dooglus is this a known issue?
10:32 mircea_popescu what version is this ?
10:32 dooglus it has a lot of 9's
10:32 mircea_popescu no, the "core"
10:33 dooglus "receive version message: /therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/: version 99999" and - um - 0.12?
10:33 mircea_popescu hm. and you have these two running on the same machine, or within a local net ?
10:33 dooglus core doesn't like messages bigger than 2MB, and trb sends ~7MB messages
10:34 dooglus that's why it's getting disconnected. both on the same machine
10:34 mircea_popescu something which may be related if not outright this is known here as blackholing
10:34 mircea_popescu !s blackholed
10:34 assbot 24 results for 'blackholed' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=blackholed
10:34 dooglus (with -port and -rpcport, on separate users)
10:34 mircea_popescu it'd be interesting if you managed to reproduce it in the lab.
10:34 trinque could also be the malleus patch if that version of prb issues heathen commands
10:34 dooglus see main.cpp: int nLimit = 500 /* + locator.GetDistanceBack() */ ;
↖
10:34 mircea_popescu mod6 trinque asciilifeform ^ prob of interest.
10:35 mircea_popescu trinque but he said it cuts the other way.
10:35 dooglus commenting out that part fixed it for me - they talk happily now
10:35 trinque ah
10:35 mircea_popescu !rated dooglus
10:35 assbot You have not rated dooglus.
10:35 mircea_popescu no wai ?!
10:35 dooglus GetDistanceBack() is huge, causing it to try requesting 100k's of headers at once
10:35 dooglus you unpersoned me because CLAM
10:36 mircea_popescu !rate dooglus 2 ran one of the best dice sites of all times, before being torpedoed by fiat government posturing. trb testing.
10:36 assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/95b0d7d96dadf30f
10:36 mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.dooglus.2:3c6c25e386479486e1de0e81ec42ca24bfd40f96aa16d1252b39ca9e7d5e8af3
10:36 assbot Successfully added a rating of 2 for dooglus with note: ran one of the best dice sites of all times, before being torpedoed by fiat government posturing. trb testing.
10:36 mircea_popescu utter pity what happened to jd.
10:38 dooglus oh, I was also wondering - is it normal that the trb build process downloads and builds the linux kernel?
↖
10:38 dooglus 'cos it did...
10:39 trinque dooglus: yep, it is using buildroot to have a deterministic build environment
10:39 mircea_popescu !up TrueBanker
10:39 nubbins` <+hanbot>you fucked that up, what, you figure more spewing is the answer? << you don't seem to get that me spelling the entire thing out again in long form is zero on my list of priorities, but i appreciate you switch-hitting for mp because it'd really look silly if he responded himself
10:39 mircea_popescu dooglus yeah. it's fully encapsulated, initial idea was to run it on pogos.
10:40 mircea_popescu well.. actually that's still the idea, just we ended up running around with all sorts of subquests that turned mainline.
10:40 shinohai I still have faith that one day my pogo will sing.
↖
10:41 mircea_popescu i sitll have crates of the things in storage that will one day sing.
10:42 nubbins` dooglus: are you saying that trb nodes are eventually ignored by core nodes simply due to trb passing enormously large messages?
10:43 nubbins` mircea_popescu, kakobrekla : http://pastebin.com/raw/6d72j4jZ
↖
10:43 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1SubXdN )
10:43 dooglus nubbins`: yes, I believe so. this appears to fix it: http://dpaste.com/0FFDMQT
10:43 assbot dpaste: 0FFDMQT ... ( http://bit.ly/1Suc0WT )
10:43 nubbins` also deed-ified here: https://blockexplorer.com/address/1EyQFmKg6PtARLgN2bKtNuDY28um1nbfFr
↖
10:43 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Suc1u5 )
10:43 deedbot- [Trilema] Eulora auction, March 13th - http://trilema.com/2016/eulora-auction-march-13th/
10:43 shinohai mircea_popescu: I wound up buying 3 thanks to mats, had considered more lol
10:43 nubbins` which oddly confirmed almost right away because i blew a whole quarter on the fees
10:44 nubbins` dooglus how 'bout that!
10:44 nubbins` one has to wonder if bitbet is using this boojum in production
10:44 hanbot nubbins' what again? didn't you just bitch at someone over not giving a link to what they claim happened? take a breather, preferably a long one, and figure your own shit out. you're smelling.
10:44 mircea_popescu fortunately with that asshole mp killing moore's law, not terrible danger of pogos ever not being worth the 10 bux or w/e they cost.
10:44 nubbins` oh, you need a link to the bitbet listing agreement?
10:44 shinohai lol
10:44 nubbins` http://mpex.co/?mpsic=S.BBET
10:44 assbot S.BBET last 3000@0.00008301 ... ( http://bit.ly/1SucmwO )
10:44 hanbot jesus already. get lost.
10:45 nubbins` you'll find the text for section 3.2 (h) under section 3.2 (h)
10:45 nubbins` you fuckin get lost.
10:45 nubbins` running the mouth
10:45 nubbins` struggling harder than mod6 was just to get a gentoo install running
10:45 nubbins` then daring to enter into a conversation about technical issues
10:46 dooglus see commit 85ea8b4f4380dac803d43cd0b7829b107cc09e38 in core : "Limit getheaders to a hard 2000" - fixes the issue there
10:46 mircea_popescu well... really, it CREATES an issue.
10:47 mircea_popescu it just turned a mild magic number ("get all the headers no less than 2000) into a fucking protocol limit. "only get 2k". this is utter nonsense.
↖
10:47 nubbins` ;;echo http://pastebin.com/raw/6d72j4jZ creates an issue
10:47 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1SubXdN )
10:47 gribble http://pastebin.com/raw/6d72j4jZ creates an issue
10:47 mircea_popescu and any "node" running that crap is ipso facto and for this non-compliant with bitcoin
10:48 dooglus this isn't creating the protocol limit of 2MB - that's elsewhere
10:48 mircea_popescu of course not.
10:48 mircea_popescu this is breaking bitcoin in some other edge.
10:48 danielpbarron nubbins`, http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/deedbot
10:48 assbot irc_bots:deedbot [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1NQw0l8 )
10:48 nubbins` hanbot check the rules before opening your word-hole again: http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-assets-rules-and-regulations/
10:48 assbot #bitcoin-assets rules and regulations on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1k32ZX6 )
10:48 dooglus but ... but ... the protocol is whatever core does! didn't you hear?
10:49 nubbins` danielpbarron there were too many iterations of deedbot so i rolled my own. i can share the code, but it should be compatible
10:49 mircea_popescu never heard.
10:49 mircea_popescu possibly on account of all the heralds of that idiocy getting shot.
10:49 nubbins` "You are free to be as offensive, annoying, disparaging, crass, crude or indecorous you feel the need or inclination to be. This includes any and all comments that in other, non-professional venues may be regarded as racist, sexist, chauvinist, fascist or whatever else. Pros don't give a shit, it's the clueless twits and assorted pretenders that do"
10:49 trinque nubbins`: got an axe to grind with everyone now?
10:49 * shinohai pops popcorn.
10:49 nubbins` yeah, "now". maybe you should read the rules too, or shut the fuck up and get out
10:50 nubbins` everyone QQing because nubs is a meanie
10:50 nubbins` trinque "Professional means that you respect your elders, on account of their superior experience, which makes them better people than you. "
10:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22709 @ 0.00053452 = 12.1384 BTC [-]
10:56 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424721 << this is not actually correct, it should build only gcc and toolchain, then trb.
10:56 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 15:38:44; dooglus: oh, I was also wondering - is it normal that the trb build process downloads and builds the linux kernel?
10:56 asciilifeform something likely went wrong with his buildroot bringup.
10:58 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424728 << if we plug the 1) blockindex crap (see logz) and 2) idiot tx-sticks-around-forever leaks - pogos sing.
10:58 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 15:40:39; shinohai: I still have faith that one day my pogo will sing.
10:59 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424731 << how this will be settled ? pistols at dawn ? gladiators ?
10:59 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 15:43:08; nubbins`: mircea_popescu, kakobrekla : http://pastebin.com/raw/6d72j4jZ
11:00 mircea_popescu asciilifeform which blockindex was this ?
11:00 shinohai Nothing says Republic like gladitorial combat! :D
11:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: my experiment where i determined that :
11:00 asciilifeform !s 300 bytes
11:00 assbot 4 results for '300 bytes' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=300+bytes
11:01 asciilifeform this was the smaller leak. in the sense where i quantified it ~exactly~, algebraically.
11:01 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14562 @ 0.00053523 = 7.794 BTC [+] {2}
11:01 nubbins` asciilifeform ideally it'd be settled by mp admitting he was grossly incorrect and revising the statement
11:01 mircea_popescu ah ah
11:01 nubbins` asciilifeform but something tells me that s.bbet is going to be a "scam investment" from here on out.
11:01 mircea_popescu unbound memory yeah.
11:01 mircea_popescu ;;bc,stats
11:01 nubbins` after all, 17 btc is one thing, pride is another
11:01 gribble Current Blocks: 401587 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 1612 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 9 hours, 36 minutes, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
11:02 mircea_popescu ;;calc 300 * 401587
11:02 gribble 120476100
11:02 mircea_popescu that's a large pogo rigt there.
11:02 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: recall eatblock ?
11:02 mircea_popescu yeah
11:02 asciilifeform i created it for this test.
11:03 mircea_popescu anyway. 2 has a much more obvious solution, if as discussed not exactly trivial and wtf are fibonacci stacks.
11:03 mircea_popescu this however - you will conceivably need some sort of block indexing mechanism.
11:03 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2016#1421938
11:03 assbot Logged on 04-03-2016 19:57:56; asciilifeform: http://staff.ustc.edu.cn/~csli/graduate/algorithms/book6/chap21.htm
11:04 * nubbins` is curious to hear opinions of others re: bitbet fraud, but fears that he'll be the only one sticking up for the investors
11:04 mircea_popescu i meant it figuratively!
11:04 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: permanently parking things in ram is retarded.
11:04 mircea_popescu well it's certainly voiding the warranty, as that's not what the ram is for.
11:04 asciilifeform ram exists as cache of disk.
11:05 mircea_popescu (imagine, as a subtopic, the wonder of computing if hardware came with guarantee "unless used for uinappropiate purpose" and then coders had to write code that didn't void any warranties.)
11:05 asciilifeform if warranties were still a thing.
11:05 asciilifeform they sorta died away when hardware became largely disposable crud.
11:07 asciilifeform nubbins`: imho the shareholders have a legit complaint re: the reactor test, and ought to be told why/what/etc. but i'm not a s.bbet shareholder, and nobody asked me (tm) etc.
11:07 PeterL for the record, I agree with nubbins` about bitbet transction
11:08 asciilifeform i'm wondering if mircea_popescu is not in a position similar to the familiar murder mystery detective, where he ~knows~ that dr. evil did the deed, but cannot prove.
11:08 asciilifeform (or cannot prove without blowing up a glass cannon)
11:09 nubbins` either way, introducing a private debt to s.bbet is plainly breaking the listing agreement, and the method by which mp has proposed to discharge it is also plainly breaking the listing agreement
11:09 nubbins` it's interesting to see a man's will fight cold logic
11:10 * asciilifeform goes and reads the bbet broadcast
11:10 asciilifeform nubbins`: were you heare for the onetimepad thread ?
11:10 asciilifeform *here
11:10 mircea_popescu the shareholders can have all the legit complaints they want, about anything that happens whatsoever. we can all hold hands and sing kumbaya about our legit complaints that bitcoin doesn't work, and we would like it to, and it should be fixed by other people at their expense so we can continue our lifestyle undeterred. meanwhile - nonvoting shares can be sold, and if there's a single icann in the lot with enough actual
11:10 mircea_popescu gumption to put together a hostile takeover package, i'll certainly consider it.
11:10 nubbins` asciilifeform not sure
11:10 PeterL mircea_popescu made a stupid mistake, and now he makes the shareholders pay for it
11:11 nubbins` yeah
11:11 mircea_popescu and i suppose i'm going to have my own legit complaints about how much this thing costs to run, and start billing by the hour, and in fiat, and the legit complainers can run off to the bank with their bitcoin and pay, or somesuch nonsense.
11:11 nubbins` ;;echo "don't like fraud? sell your shares"
11:11 gribble don't like fraud? sell your shares
11:12 mircea_popescu PeterL when the ceo of a company makes a stupid mistake, the company pays for it. there are exactly no exceptions to this rule, nor will there ever be. morever, even when what the ceo does isn't a stupid mistake, the shareholders still pay for it.
↖
11:12 nubbins` ;;echo don't like fraud? shut the fuck up or i'll vastly inflate expenses
11:12 gribble don't like fraud? shut the fuck up or i'll vastly inflate expenses
11:12 mircea_popescu this is the definition of these terms.
11:12 nubbins` this is so fucking rich
11:12 nubbins` lel
11:12 nubbins` "when the ceo of a company makes a stupid mistake, the company pays for it"
11:12 nubbins` not when the ceo makes a mistake on his own time, out of his own pocket, the company doesn't
11:13 nubbins` fucking idiot
11:13 PeterL and when the ceo of a company consitently makes mistakes, he gets fired
11:13 mircea_popescu by all means. hence, " and if there's a single icann in the lot with enough actual gumption to put together a hostile takeover package, i'll certainly consider it."
↖
11:13 asciilifeform where is kakobrekla ? i thought he was ceo of bbet ?
11:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the way it worked, from the beginning, was that he did the site and i did admin and payouts.
↖
11:14 asciilifeform ah
11:14 nubbins` asciilifeform kakobrekla is probably wondering what the future holds for him, as he is currently being forced to decide between PGP signing a fraudulent financial statement or losing his livelihood. i envy him not.
11:14 nubbins` sadly, it will be mp's ego that costs him the loss either way
11:15 nubbins` although i guess if s.bbet can break its listing agreement with impunity, it can also stop providing signed financial statements to MPEx with impunity
11:15 nubbins` so it probably won't be delisted
11:15 nubbins` after all, it's more about ego than logic or facts
11:15 nubbins` pathetic, really
11:16 * nubbins` sidesteps a tumbleweed
11:17 PeterL nubbins` yes
11:17 dooglus I'm new to this whole bitbet payout mess, but read somewhere that the 'B' transaction was made after receiving advice to do so. Who advised it, and why?
11:17 mircea_popescu wasn't publicly shared.
11:17 dooglus oh, ok
11:18 mircea_popescu but the somewhere'd be prolly qntra i'd guess.
11:18 nubbins` dooglus it would seem that mp did it on his own accord. bitbet is a "zero asset" corporation, and thus doesn't own any capital; there was nowhere for a second 17btc to come from.
11:18 asciilifeform from the sturles thread, i learned that most idiot nodes are set up to ignore what they think is 'double spend' on purely chronological what-i-saw-first grounds. and mircea_popescu was mighty pissed, and i also (to me, this was new, i do not habitually track prbism)
11:18 nubbins` at any rate, being a 0a corp, the funds from B weren't bitbet's. regardless of who owned them.
11:19 dooglus I expect so. I was also trying to find the 16% referenced in http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2016#1421022
11:19 assbot Logged on 03-03-2016 16:18:56; mircea_popescu: in any case, at the time this was discussed in the logs, the miner priority was in the 9th decile, about 16% of the global mempool.
11:19 nubbins` asciilifeform mp's anger morphed into "this theorem was disproven" in his broken brain
11:19 PeterL there is no spec, they can order transactions in whichever way they want
11:19 mircea_popescu this is a minor point. there are better bits. such as - that an transaction known but not advertised constitutes the simple definition of "transaction withholding".
11:19 deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b138
11:19 mircea_popescu also a minor point, but at least relevant re protocol discussion.
11:19 dooglus because it seems unlikely to be true. A1 had an uncommonly high priority, way over 100 million
11:20 PeterL nubbins` I guess bitbet is not keeping a 100% reserve of bets now?
11:20 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: imho the relevant bit here is that we (at least i) do not know ~who~ withheld it, and then exhumed and transmitted it, and why
11:20 asciilifeform it could have easily been a node operator.
11:20 nubbins` PeterL A1-A4 had bitbet's inputs. A1-A4 went awol. B had mp's personal inputs.
11:20 asciilifeform when mircea_popescu said 'miners' i assumed he had intelligence pointing in that direction.
11:20 nubbins` bitbet keeps a 100% reserve, not a 200% reserve, which is why we know B's inputs had to have been mp's personal funds.
11:20 mircea_popescu initially i thought that "nodes" is a meaningful term, but what i see now is a large ball of node with a bunch of sattelites that have ~ no importance flattering themselves into thinking they're part of a network.
11:21 PeterL so B should not be counted against bitbets funds if it was not bitbet money
11:21 mircea_popescu sort-of like us electoral process works.
11:21 nubbins` asciilifeform when you assume someone has intelligence...
11:21 nubbins` PeterL yes, precisely. section 3.2 (h) of bitbet's listing agreement forbids this.
11:21 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i thought this was quite apparent long ago
11:21 nubbins` that's the basis of my as yet unanswered fraud accusation
11:22 asciilifeform ball of node + dryer lint
11:22 mircea_popescu besides the point - it is a factual matter now.
11:22 mircea_popescu somehow the difference between this and that keeps getting elided.
11:22 mircea_popescu as if everyone's a little bit everything and it all evens out or something, dunno.
11:23 asciilifeform nubbins`: consider this:
11:24 * nubbins` bends an ear
11:24 mircea_popescu but in any case, there is a substantial difference between "i think X on the basis of my personal experience" and "mp said x on the basis of bitbet experience as documented on qntra". exactly of the sort and caliber as the difference between "i think there exist alien" and "here's pictures of man walking on the moon", in fact.
↖
11:24 asciilifeform you are on a nuke sub. captain, having been informed by six different crew members that reactor coolant has been replaced with pisswater, and the valve gaskets - with chewing gum, gives in to the temptation to run a test.
11:24 PeterL the qntra article is illogical and jumps to the conclusion you want, ignoring the simplest explanation
11:24 nubbins` i wouldn't put too much weight behind mp's bitbet experience
11:25 asciilifeform the thing begins to melt.
11:25 mircea_popescu PeterL this statement would be a lot less ridiculous had the "simplest explanation" been actually formed as the article even encourages the reader to do!
11:25 asciilifeform want to fight with captain? pump bilgewater to cool down the rods ?
11:25 asciilifeform i have nfi. i'm not even on the sub.
11:25 nubbins` asciilifeform maybe the captain can just refund the gum and pee for gaskets and coolant, the ship's financial officer OKs it, life goes on, ego bruised but the sub still floating?
11:25 nubbins` we've got all the coolant and gaskets RIGHT HERE
11:26 nubbins` the only reason we'd need to sink is if cappy's too proud to use em
11:26 mircea_popescu but, time's not wasted, go forth and write down your proposed simplest explanation.
11:27 nubbins` PeterL i think he's hinting that text is too hard and he needs an infographic
11:27 mircea_popescu with any luck it'll be something like "miner cartel, what a ridiculous idea - not like the anon derps involved are a) known to be idiots and b) have certain incentive do do exactly this! moreover, the much simpler explanation is that... uh... uh... mp conspiracy! and scam! and fraud! and he doesn't care about bitcoin! and i'm an idiot that'll show him!!11"
11:27 mircea_popescu wtf is this shit even.
11:27 nubbins` ^ as you can see, lots of hand-waving and rhetoric is the best response mp can dig up when under fire
11:27 nubbins` still not a word re: blatant fraud
11:27 PeterL can you not see sturle's comment, seems the most logical to me?
11:28 mircea_popescu we discussed this that same day he made it. plox to check your copy of the logs.
11:28 nubbins` ah, right.
11:28 nubbins` http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424380
11:28 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 02:59:17; mircea_popescu: sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan.
11:28 nubbins` no such "falling apart" was witnessed, upon review of the logs by ALL parties present.
11:28 nubbins` what did happen was mp got very upset and the topic changed
11:29 PeterL 0fee txn, nodes hold onto it (but don't rebroadcast), later when backlog is smaller they broadcast it
11:29 nubbins` yep.
11:29 nubbins` incredibly simple explanation.
11:29 nubbins` it's what my node does
11:29 nubbins` baffled that most don't
11:29 nubbins` ...or maybe they do!
11:29 mircea_popescu congrats, you've formed a theory about a selection of the facts on record.
11:29 mircea_popescu wanna try for the whole thing ?
11:29 PeterL and "the code is the spec", so the spec says first txn see overrides any later (regardless of fees)
11:29 nubbins` ^ this is what you'll get as a response no matter how well thought-out your explanation is
11:29 nubbins` sauce and hyperbole
11:30 PeterL which facts does it miss?
11:30 mircea_popescu it also says txn get thrown out of pools after x days.
11:30 PeterL how do you know?
11:30 mircea_popescu PeterL they're in the qntra piece.
11:30 mircea_popescu how do YOU know what the code says ?
11:30 nubbins` and you wonder why i have zero interest in "doing up a blog post" or whatever masturbatory navel-gazing bullshit is somehow better than explaining it real-time
11:30 PeterL did you go look into the mempool of every node?
11:30 nubbins` hahaha
11:30 nubbins` mp has node x-ray goggles.
11:30 mircea_popescu i looked into whatever i looked sufficient to satisfy myself.
11:30 nubbins` he sends a special packet and the node dumps its mempool, json format
11:31 nubbins` that way he can tell what transactions other nodes are aware of but are not rebroadcasting
11:31 nubbins` oh, wait, that's fucking retarded
11:31 PeterL it would only take one node holding onto the txn for it to be rebroadcast
11:31 mircea_popescu and instamined.
11:31 kakobrekla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424891 < this is not so. it was not bitbet experience (for example i was not even aware of any of it) and publishing your interpretation on qntra does not assert absolute truth, it just tells everyone who reads it what you think.
↖ ↖
11:31 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 16:24:11; mircea_popescu: but in any case, there is a substantial difference between "i think X on the basis of my personal experience" and "mp said x on the basis of bitbet experience as documented on qntra". exactly of the sort and caliber as the difference between "i think there exist alien" and "here's pictures of man walking on the moon", in fact.
11:32 mircea_popescu kakobrekla it does not tell everyone what "i think", it tells everyone what i saw.
11:32 PeterL and maybe that node was connected when you broadcast the first time, turned off, and reconnected 8 days later, at which point it rebroadcast the txn?
11:32 mircea_popescu but, sure, "experience of that fraction of bitbet that does payouts", is right.
11:32 mircea_popescu PeterL possibly, sure.
11:32 nubbins` PeterL imagine how high the priority would be on A1 by the time it makes it to the front of the mempool queue
11:33 nubbins` why, it'd instantly be included in a block!
11:33 mircea_popescu also trivially meets the definition of "withholding txn", but w/e.
11:33 nubbins` oh, wait, that lines up with the fucking facts
11:33 PeterL withholding txn, sitting on txn, not the same thing
11:33 nubbins` ;;echo no, it tells everyone what you think you saw, and as we've seen today, what you think you saw couldn't fill a hat.
11:33 gribble no, it tells everyone what you think you saw, and as we've seen today, what you think you saw couldn't fill a hat.
11:34 dooglus maybe that node was connected when you broadcast the first time, turned off, and reconnected 8 days later << or maybe one of the winners of the bet saw he had been paid and rebroadcast A1 so he could get paid again; that seems like the most obvious motivation for rebroadcasting A1
11:34 mircea_popescu also possible.
11:34 nubbins` dooglus logic has no place in this discussion
11:34 mircea_popescu HOW did they see it ?
11:34 mircea_popescu at that time, it was yet invisible.
11:35 PeterL what was invisible?
11:35 mircea_popescu ~nobody saw it, somehow, hence questions about bitbet payouts.
11:35 mircea_popescu A1.
11:35 nubbins` you're assuming the bitbet broadcast node is covert.
11:35 nubbins` that's probably a stupid assumption
11:35 dooglus the winners wouldn't have seen A1 vanish after 48h or whatever the mempool lifetime is; for them A1 credits one of their addresses and so it sticks around forever for them
11:35 PeterL A1 you sent out to the world, everybody listening saw it
11:35 mircea_popescu except nobody did, somehow.
11:35 mircea_popescu this is integral.
11:36 nubbins` ^ you have no way of proving that
11:36 mircea_popescu see, the problem with assumptions is - making them.
11:36 dooglus everyone you sent it to saw it. Didn't you broadcast it to ~100 nodes?
11:36 mircea_popescu i thought i had, yes.
11:37 PeterL mircea_popescu you seem to be making some big assumptions and plugging your ears whenever anybody questions them
11:37 dooglus they won't tell you they saw it - it was 0 fee, so won't be relayed to anyone
11:37 nubbins` PeterL that's sort of the way it is
11:37 nubbins` dooglus i've been saying this since the first minute, but he just won't listen
11:37 mircea_popescu depends what code they run, but this could well be.
11:37 nubbins` it's actually mind-boggling
11:37 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40962 @ 0.00053446 = 21.8926 BTC [-]
11:38 mircea_popescu so far, we're with the assumption that "bettor with incentive was running one or more of the nodes mp connected to".
11:38 mircea_popescu this - should be given a %.
11:38 mircea_popescu as it isn't, per your theory, the case that "Whole world saw". just the set in question.
11:38 nubbins` ;;echo remove bettor from the statement, it's falsely constricting
11:38 gribble remove bettor from the statement, it's falsely constricting
11:39 deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 10.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b139
11:39 nubbins` ^ just to put everyone at ease even though payouts are on indefinite hiatus, here's a 10 btc house bet
11:40 nubbins` yes, that's right, payouts are on indefinite hiatus because paying 9 cents tx fee isn't a solution
11:40 dooglus "bettor" could be replaced by "anyone who wants to fuck MP over" I guess if you want to increase the probability somewhat
11:40 nubbins` dooglus +1
11:40 mircea_popescu well... if it's not a bettor then "for them A1 credits one of their addresses and so it sticks around forever for them" doesn't stick anymore.
11:40 nubbins` yeah, how could a non-bettor have a watch-only address in his wallet?
11:41 nubbins` surely he couldn't just add the pubkey.
11:41 nubbins` dooglus if you're wondering, mp ignored me in a fit of rage yesterday
11:41 PeterL so there are what, 23 outputs or so? and it would take just one of them seeing the txn to hold onto it
11:42 nubbins` PeterL one person watching one of the 23 outputs, yes
11:42 mircea_popescu all the outputs go to bet winners.
11:42 mircea_popescu let's move on to the next step. THEN, MP broadcast A2, which HAD a fee. to a non-overlapping set of nodes. the disjunction of the two sets had a perfectly valid txn they... also didn't broadcast, because magic reasons.
11:42 nubbins` except for B, where one of the outputs went back to you because it was your money, not bitbet's
11:42 mircea_popescu and then we do this a coupla more times, and so on.
11:43 nubbins` "to a non-overlapping set of nodes" -- aha! he's found an out that he hasn't used yet -- the nodes weren't overlapping now, see?!
11:43 PeterL well, there is probably a large overlap between bettors and people running nodes, since these are people who have an interest in the bitcoin network working so they can get paid
11:43 mircea_popescu by this measure, there's a large overlap between all sorts of things. maybe there is, sure.
11:43 nubbins` large overlap between blatant fraud and mp right now
11:43 nubbins` still no response to allegations!
11:44 nubbins` shareholders of all mpex assets must be shitting
11:44 mircea_popescu anyway, ima bbl.
11:44 nubbins` can't simultaneously invent complicated lies and hold a convo
11:44 nubbins` cheers
11:45 nubbins` weird, still no signed bitbet statement
11:45 nubbins` hope there's nothing wrong with the financials
11:45 nubbins` that'd be turbo embarassing
11:45 dooglus if A1 and A2 went to non-overlapping sets of nodes then A2 should have been accepted and mined, right?
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11:46 nubbins` dooglus in the absence of proof, i'd assume that they were sent to the same nodes
11:46 PeterL <mircea_popescu> by this measure, there's a large overlap between all sorts of things. maybe there is, sure. << it only takes one, and I bet and have a node, therefore it might have been me too
11:47 nubbins` hey, i bet and have a node too
11:47 PeterL so maybe it was you!
↖
11:47 nubbins` maybe we should open a node cartel!
11:47 nubbins` maybe bitbet shouldn't be sending 0-fee transactions when there's a massive mempool backlog!
11:48 nubbins` maybe mp shouldn't have put a personal expenditure on bitbet's books!
11:48 PeterL maybe just never send 0fee txn, because customer payouts should be a priority?
11:48 nubbins` all these maybes, and more, to be left unaddressed -- stay tuned!
11:48 dooglus I suspect that's the client's fault - used to be that high-priority inputs meant you didn't need a fee
11:48 nubbins` PeterL i think it's fairly obvious that customer payouts are zero priority, given the 0-fee payout attempt followed by a payout embargo
11:48 asciilifeform nubbins`: my current hypothesis is that he did not intend a reactor test, but simply allowed the transmitter to calculate a default fee, which turned out to be 0, and sent.
11:48 PeterL but how is mircea_popescu going to address the concerns if he ignores the people who raise them?
11:49 nubbins` PeterL i don't think you understand how this place works
11:49 nubbins` mp does not address concerns, flaws, mistakes, or errors. ever.
11:49 nubbins` the hilarity that's ensued today is me proving this to the point of ridiculousness
11:50 PeterL asciilifeform but sending the second txn was pure idiocy, since he had no way of knowing the first would not also be mined
11:50 asciilifeform nubbins`: this is not true, see the onetimepad thread, mp admitted that he made an arithmetical mistake once !
11:50 nubbins` asciilifeform if i send $7,000 cash in the mail, i don't let the post office choose the delivery standard
11:50 adlai nubbins`: couldn't the inputs of B have been from other bets? maybe not how "bettors have come to expect" payouts would work, but not strictly speaking funds which don't belong to s.bbet
↖
11:50 nubbins` asciilifeform well then!
11:50 asciilifeform PeterL: what, i am curious, would you have done ?
11:50 asciilifeform so he sends A1, and notices that it is in limbo.
11:50 asciilifeform now what.
11:50 PeterL well, either wait for the first transactio
11:50 asciilifeform or what?
11:51 nubbins` or send another turbo low fee transaction 12 hours later.
11:51 nubbins` with the same inputs.
11:51 asciilifeform didn't he ?
11:51 nubbins` while the backlog is still huge.
11:51 nubbins` yes, he did
11:51 PeterL or double spend the outputs (and get a miner to include) before sending txn B
11:51 nubbins` unsusprisingly, nothing happened
11:51 asciilifeform and then do what? eat pistol ?
11:51 nubbins` if he'd gone straight from A1 to A4 we'd probably all be drinking soda together now
11:51 asciilifeform what was bbet (or mircea_popescu at the console, or imagine youself there instead) do instead ?
11:51 nubbins` or, y'know, fucking waited
11:52 nubbins` it's not like prompt payouts have ever been a priority
11:52 asciilifeform nubbins`: i thought your objection was precisely to a4
11:52 nubbins` don't make me dig up examples of bets that took a week to resolve
11:52 PeterL but in any case not send txn B until txn A has been resolved
11:52 asciilifeform where he had to use mysterymeat input of his own
11:52 nubbins` B was mysterymeat input
11:52 nubbins` of his own
11:52 nubbins` A1-A4 was bitbet's money
11:53 asciilifeform anyway i have no idea if mircea_popescu send the 'doubles' because he was pissed and mashing keys, or if he forgot that most of the node network is run by imbeciles who go by chronology to 'resolve doublespend', or what. ask him, not me.
11:53 * adlai tries rebroadcasting http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425031
11:53 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 16:50:24; adlai: nubbins`: couldn't the inputs of B have been from other bets? maybe not how "bettors have come to expect" payouts would work, but not strictly speaking funds which don't belong to s.bbet
11:53 nubbins` even if it'd worked, he still would have been introducing a private expense to bitbet's books and then paying himself back from A* inputs, which still breaks the listing agreement
11:53 davout were A2, A3, A4 ever published?
↖
11:54 nubbins` adlai i don't think that mixing bets like salad paints a prettier picture.
11:54 nubbins` and there's a name for an operation that pays cashouts from more recent takings
11:54 asciilifeform nubbins`: what does the listing agreement say re: what to do, as a shareholder, if you think mp has been afflicted by martian brain parasites and broke the agreement ?
11:54 nubbins` it shares many letters with the word pizza
11:55 adlai nubbins`: it does change the picture from "fraud! abdication! blood of tyrants!" to "mp made a mistake when acting as coin-handler for a corporation"
11:55 nubbins` asciilifeform unsurprisingly, it says zilch.
11:55 nubbins` adlai yes, the refusal to admit the mistake is what's constituting the fraud.
11:55 nubbins` as it stands, mp's debt is bitbet's debt.
11:55 nubbins` http://trilema.com/2016/the-greatly-anticipated-bitbet-sbbet-february-2016-statement/
11:55 assbot The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1LamWrs )
11:55 nubbins` see with your own eyes
11:55 PeterL nubbins` payout from inputs is good for transparency, but it would be perfectly legitimate for bitbet to send all funds to one address and then make all payouts from the same address
11:56 kakobrekla davout afaik no.
11:56 * adlai is fairly certain bitbet has been "mixing bets" for ~ever. isn't this how the whole "bitbet as tumbler" story was supposed to work? ie, the blockchain tells a different story than the addresses listed on the site
11:56 nubbins` wait, no
11:57 nubbins` Should BitBet fail to execute this Agreement, as for instance by but not limited to breaching 3.2.h above, MPEx will notify the named individuals of their breach and may, at its sole discretion, suspend the asset from trading thus activating the liquidation of the asset.
11:57 BingoBoingo http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424487 << ORPHAN!
11:57 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 13:36:34; asciilifeform: kakobrekla: except - cartel. go, make a block.
11:57 nubbins` so if mp defrauds bitbet, mpex has the OPTION of liquidating it.
11:57 kakobrekla BingoBoingo show me.
11:57 nubbins` any bets on whether that'll happen?
11:58 BingoBoingo kakobrekla: Might take a while...
11:58 kakobrekla Thats what they said for Jesus.
12:00 davout kakobrekla: pls to do so, i'm looking through my nodes logs to see if and when i heard about them
12:00 PeterL and by the way, how did we jump to the conclusion that the collusion is from "Chinese miners"? (And why is the disclaimer on bitbet so tiny and discreet?)
12:00 kakobrekla davout i dont have that information.
12:00 nubbins` it's so tiny so people won't stop betting.
12:01 nubbins` turbo scammy
12:01 nubbins` and "we" jumped to the conclusion because there's a not-insignificant amount of worry in the ecosystem right now about chinese monopoly, so it's an easy lie to sell
12:01 PeterL kakobrekla is there an estimated timeframe for when bet payouts will resume?
12:01 asciilifeform PeterL: i have nfi how mircea_popescu concluded that miners were involved. the only clue i have is that it has recently come out that the top cn miners have formed a derp committee of some kind, apparently for purposes of negotiated separate peace with the enemy
12:02 davout ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425061
12:02 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 16:53:56; davout: were A2, A3, A4 ever published?
12:02 gribble The operation succeeded.
12:02 nubbins` go to qntra article and see how long it takes for someone to even MENTION the obvious cheapo explanation
12:02 nubbins` by the time it's raised, you can barely read it for the noise about "bitcoin has been forked"
12:03 asciilifeform nubbins`: i ~really~, very much, hate the miners. but i do not have the smoking gun that tells us that they were at fault.
12:03 nubbins` asciilifeform bush didn't have the smoking gun but he still went to iraq
12:03 asciilifeform mircea_popescu's observations best fit the 'there is no longer a reliable network' model.
12:03 nubbins` agreed with caveats
12:03 asciilifeform rather than 'miner cartel' model.
12:03 kakobrekla asciilifeform there never was.
12:04 thestringpuller nubbins`: "Why is Bush so convinced Iraq has weapons of mass destruction?" Negrodamus: "Because he has the receipt."
12:04 asciilifeform kakobrekla: mircea_popescu sent the first tx. noticed that it has apparently vanished from the fact of the earth. what is the thing to do in that case ?
12:04 asciilifeform *face of
12:04 thestringpuller ^-patience?
12:04 davout asciilifeform: do a double spend, manage to get a conflicting tx mined
12:05 nubbins` so, where do we go from here? we have an mpex listing where the owner's introduced fraudulent expenses and the other owner won't sign the financial statement. the only party who has recourse of any sort is mpex, but of course the conflict of interest involved will preclude mpex from resolving the situation to honest satisfaction
12:05 asciilifeform davout: which is what he did ?
12:05 davout asciilifeform: no, the tx he sent was not conflicting
12:05 nubbins` ^ true
12:05 jurov asciilifeform: why was he ever sending zerofee tx?
12:05 asciilifeform davout: 'A second transaction was broadcast, spending the same inputs as A1, including a fee of 0.0001'
12:05 nubbins` jurov incompetence
12:05 PeterL nubbins`> go to qntra article and see how long it takes for someone to even MENTION the obvious cheapo explanation << if you look at the timestamps, it was just a couple hours before we started complaining, which was pretty much as soon as I got around to reading the article in question
12:05 nubbins` PeterL fair nuf :)
12:05 davout asciilifeform: it's the "manage to get mined" that's the important bit here
12:06 asciilifeform seems to me like he did a reasonable thing, which is to transmit a doublspend with moar fee
12:06 asciilifeform but forgot that the network is now run by aggressive imbeciles
12:06 nubbins` still not enough fee, by his own admission.
12:06 asciilifeform who will drop the tx on the floor
12:06 nubbins` so A1 and A2 were bad judgment calls, we can all agree there
12:06 kakobrekla asciilifeform certainly not sign more parallel transactions to same effect and broadcast them like nothing happened
12:06 nubbins` ^
12:06 nubbins` a thousand times this
12:07 asciilifeform but what instead ?
12:07 nubbins` this is like ordering pizza from 2 different shops, eating the one that shows up first, and acting surprised when you see both charged to your credit card
12:07 davout asciilifeform: try harder?
12:07 kakobrekla asciilifeform see the agreed upon solution for future bets payouts
12:07 nubbins` asciilifeform the "what instead" has been stated to be "use a fee of 9 cents" more than once.
12:08 asciilifeform kakobrekla: from the statement ?
12:08 nubbins` maybe 10 cents if you're feeling brave.
12:08 kakobrekla asciilifeform yes.
12:08 davout bbl
12:08 asciilifeform kakobrekla: it sounds reasonable. except that i suspect that most of the users will cry, 'how do i transmit a tx?111 waaah'
12:08 nubbins` most of the users will cry "this place is fucked"
12:08 nubbins` "i have to push my own tx because bitbet can't afford a tx fee"
12:09 nubbins` "what are they sniffing?"
12:09 nubbins` etc
12:09 kakobrekla i dont think this will be a problem. notice the 'double-check' guy from comments.
12:09 nubbins` seriously. "the stupidest tx ever was slow to propagate, therefore all payouts are suspended"
12:10 nubbins` sounds reasonable
12:10 nubbins` anyone who supports this gibberish shames themselves
12:10 kakobrekla nubbins` re 0 fee ; see first few lines http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47629
12:10 assbot A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/24BzVIP )
12:11 nubbins` kakobrekla seems like you've got a good understanding of the likelihood of each explanation
12:12 asciilifeform [02:07:54] [mircea_popescu] ALL these ~happened~ to somehow drop out of mempools ? << from the document << later we learn that prb DROPS what it deems 'doublespend' SOLELY based on chronology.
12:12 nubbins` turns out "somehow" is "here's how:"
12:12 asciilifeform which handily explains why A2-A4 vanished.
12:12 nubbins` agreed
12:13 PeterL does trb do replace by fee?
12:13 nubbins` and a desire to not propagate shit tx's handily explains why A1 was retained but not relayed by nodes, agreed?
12:13 asciilifeform PeterL: what's that ?
12:14 kakobrekla 'replace by fee' is a new thing that has not been ported
12:14 PeterL if trb sees A1 and A2, which does it keep?
12:14 PeterL (A1 is 0fee, A2 has fee, same inputs)
12:15 asciilifeform hm
12:15 asciilifeform http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0844
12:15 assbot Satoshi asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1LaoiSM )
12:15 asciilifeform ^ apparently whichever it sees 1st.
12:15 asciilifeform which is a bug.
12:15 nubbins` so we can explain why A1 was held for so long before being mined, and we can explain why A2-A4 vanished, and we can explain why mp thought that sending B was a good idea, but we now see that it was simply not a good idea because mp did not understand the payment protocol as well as he thought he did, and now we've got a 17 btc fraudulent expense on bitbet's ledger
12:16 BingoBoingo 'replace by fee' USED to be how double spends were typically resolved by miner implementations
12:16 asciilifeform nubbins`: incidentally i have nfi what mpb does, i have never seen it and don't expect to
12:16 nubbins` asciilifeform agreed
12:16 nubbins` if there are any omissions or corrections to be made to my summation above, now would be the time
12:16 nubbins` i'm all ears
12:16 PeterL maybe mircea_popescu can tell us how his own implementation works?
12:17 nubbins` maybe he can defraud bitbet investors too
12:17 asciilifeform nubbins`: i fully expected that mircea_popescu would cover the 17 from the coin stuck in his toenails
12:17 nubbins` asciilifeform seems odd behaviour for a wealthy man, no?
12:17 nubbins` especially considering the shitstorm that this egregious fraud has blown up
12:18 asciilifeform but i have nfi, i'm not his mother, cannot answer why he does things! l0l!
12:18 nubbins` maybe he needs a loan. hanbot seems like she buys lots of stuff
12:18 PeterL asciilifeform I was suprised when he decided to stick it onto bitbet's books
12:18 nubbins` i was shocked
12:19 nubbins` i guess we should put his lordship to a vote in a few days if he hasn't resolved things satisfactorily
12:19 nubbins` TMSR~ can't afford to harbour scammers or fraudsters
12:20 asciilifeform nubbins`: it is possible that mircea_popescu is holding a drill.
12:20 asciilifeform in his place, i would do it regularly
12:20 nubbins` ?
12:20 PeterL If I send a txn to the addresses listed on a bitbet page, will that expense be put on the bitbet books too?
12:20 nubbins` i'm afraid your metaphor escapes me
12:20 nubbins` PeterL only if you own 25% of the shares
12:20 PeterL asciilifeform a scammer drill? to see if we call out an negrate scammers in a timely fasion?
12:21 nubbins` oh, that type of drill, not a power tool
12:21 nubbins` doubt it
12:21 PeterL and if we blindly follow him then he knows we are all derps?
12:21 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50243 @ 0.00053577 = 26.9187 BTC [+] {2}
12:21 nubbins` PeterL i don't know how much of the logs you've read, but it's mostly derps
12:21 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-03-2016#1423312 << see also.
12:21 assbot Logged on 05-03-2016 22:35:15; asciilifeform: except i admit that i only expected 'this' to happen after cia murdered mircea_popescu and took his coin...
12:22 nubbins` i could count the individuals i'd consider intellectual peers on one hand
12:22 PeterL it's mostly mircea_popescu and asciilifeform bickering back and forth?
12:22 nubbins` they don't bicker much, and alf's a smart guy
12:22 nubbins` but by and large, this place is an intellectual wasteland
12:23 nubbins` take the situation of poor bitcoinpete: his underwear probably smells like mp's dick
12:24 nubbins` a less-loquacious parrot regurgitating half-understood conceits
12:24 PeterL are Canadians allowed to talk about each other so impolitely?
12:24 nubbins` or mod6, by all accounts a great guy, head of TRB, almost quit in the first week because he couldn't get a gentoo install up and running.
12:24 nubbins` and felt unfit to lead.
12:25 PeterL each of us have our warts
12:25 nubbins` yep. and a quick "you got it buddy" to mod6 and "you're really good at typing things up, you're wasting your talents at the loading bay" to dpb and you've got two more sets of undies smelling like mp's dick
12:26 trinque I don't get these shots at mod6; he wrote up a fine guide to building a gentoo...
12:26 nubbins` didn't even have to pay bingo to stick around, just bought him a domain and some text-only
12:26 nubbins` trinque not a shot, merely stating facts
12:27 asciilifeform nubbins`: when you were a boy, didja ever lead a band of other boys to raise hell ?
12:27 asciilifeform do you recall how it's generally done ?
12:28 thestringpuller a clockwork orange this is not
12:28 nubbins` asciilifeform i waited until adulthood to start raising hell, nobody listens to kids. but i smell a story coming
12:28 asciilifeform or, similar example, do you know how famous sov. circus trainer kuklachev trained housecats to perform ?
12:28 PeterL figure out which way they are running, jump in front and say "this way, boys!"?
12:28 asciilifeform PeterL: not quite.
12:28 nubbins` asciilifeform i'll venture a guess that it's the same way mp trains derps to stick around and parrot the party line
12:28 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21298 @ 0.00053763 = 11.4504 BTC [+] {2}
12:29 asciilifeform nubbins`: i dun think he needs the parroting for anything
12:29 nubbins` put some wet food on the other side of the hoop and dole out a few head scratches
12:29 asciilifeform it is like the vroom of a racing engine
12:29 asciilifeform yes, it goes with the engine.
12:29 nubbins` asciilifeform agreed which is why i think pete annoys me so much
12:29 asciilifeform but it does not move the car.
12:30 nubbins` like a small child holding a hot wheels shouting "vroom!"
12:30 asciilifeform nubbins`: fwiw pete_dushenski and i are not huge fans of one another.
12:30 nubbins` asciilifeform if we're calling spades spades, i think he's a piece of shit, but one has to wonder what weight MY opinion holds in such matters
12:30 thestringpuller all this before civil war II
12:31 asciilifeform nubbins`: why piece of shit? i think he's a snore, and he - likely thinks i am a snore. but why the mega-rage, l0l
12:31 nubbins` don't conflate strong feelings with rage, i'm having a great day :)
12:31 nubbins` as to why, i find his worldview repulsive
12:31 nubbins` and his personality lacking
12:31 nubbins` but this is off-topic
12:32 nubbins` fwiw, i also think mp is a piece of shit, but it was easy enough to idle in here and fleece some money out of him now and again. that time's obviously passed since all of his ventures are either spinning wheels or outright fraud shops
12:32 asciilifeform afaik pete_dushenski is this canadian fella who likes to race cars, and also occasionally reads the logz and writes summaries, in something like stalin's radio caster (levitan) voice.
12:32 asciilifeform i don't much care for them, myself.
12:32 asciilifeform i got enough of that as a kid.
12:32 nubbins` +1
12:32 nubbins` of course, one can converse with pieces of shit just fine, and even occasionally work together on common goals
12:33 nubbins` but when the shit turns sour and starts liquefying and spreading around, well, it'd be remiss of me to not try to contain it
12:33 asciilifeform nubbins`: do you actually think he was trying to personally fleece you ?
12:33 asciilifeform (or anybody ?)
12:33 nubbins` asciilifeform goodness no
12:33 asciilifeform mircea_popescu works as a pope.
12:34 nubbins` you got it backwards
12:34 asciilifeform does nubbins` understand why this is a painful job ?
12:34 nubbins` because the gold crowns are really heavy?
12:34 asciilifeform aha.
12:34 asciilifeform they ~are~.
12:34 nubbins` ...?
12:35 nubbins` what i was saying is that i came here and stuck around to make money
12:35 asciilifeform nubbins`: recall the quantum computer thread ?
12:35 nubbins` i'm not here to make friends and brown-nose some random dude
12:35 nubbins` i'm here to get paid and call bullshit
12:35 BingoBoingo http://www.kuklachev.ru/eng/repertoir/2/
12:35 assbot Moscow Cats Theatre - Repertoir ... ( http://bit.ly/1nrH3FX )
12:37 nubbins` and mp is spraying bullshit like a fountain
12:37 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1402247
12:37 assbot Logged on 10-02-2016 17:08:22; mircea_popescu: alowing the possibility that this scam is actually worth taking seriously costs the people who follow what i say whatever it may cost them.
12:37 asciilifeform nubbins` ^
12:37 asciilifeform being pope is not easy.
12:37 asciilifeform he can't simply say 'oops!'
12:38 nubbins` lol.
12:38 nubbins` he can't simply admit his unquestioned fraud?
12:38 nubbins` strange temple you've built here, stan
12:38 asciilifeform l0l me?
12:38 nubbins` you're the one saying he can't just say oops
12:39 nubbins` of fucking course he can. what planet is this?
12:39 asciilifeform well that is my current understanding.
12:39 nubbins` "sorry guise, turns out, as you ALL KNOW, i made a mistake that would be interpreted as fraud if it stands"
12:39 nubbins` i can't tell if you're advocating letting the fraud stand as the only sensible option
12:39 asciilifeform what does kakobrekla have to say ?
12:40 nubbins` he's probably too busy worrying about bitbet vanishing
12:40 asciilifeform i dun think kakobrekla is congentalyl capable of worry
12:40 asciilifeform he had that muscle removed in the war.
12:40 nubbins` put his job on the line and see if he worries
12:41 nubbins` bitbet is a scam site if this stands, unequivocally. i dare you to declare otherwise, and if you so choose, please PGP sign it for us all
12:41 nubbins` make a history for ourselves
12:41 asciilifeform nubbins`: i'ma wait for mircea_popescu to wake up and admit he was conducting a drill.
12:42 asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning << as per.
12:42 assbot The Hour Of Reckoning on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Laq9r0 )
12:42 nubbins` what's the upper bound on the amount of time you'll wait?
12:42 nubbins` you can't leave it open-ended, that's just not gonna fly
12:42 nubbins` pick a timeframe and we'll see
12:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7032 @ 0.00053633 = 3.7715 BTC [-] {2}
12:43 nubbins` wanna give him a month? next bitbet statement should be out by then
12:43 asciilifeform nubbins`: idk, if this carries on, i might have to take up his offer and visit in person (and perhaps disappear into whatever gulag they put the real mircea_popescu in !1111)
12:43 nubbins` and if that statement doesn't cover march AND february, then s.bbet has failed reporting requirements as per mpex regs
12:43 nubbins` currently, no signed financial statement for feb 2016 exists
12:44 nubbins` 1-month absences are allowed if the missed statement is rolled into the next
12:44 asciilifeform nubbins`: you did not complain when mine was late ?
12:44 nubbins` yours didn't have a $7,000 private spending spree on the books
12:45 nubbins` did it?
12:45 asciilifeform read it, it's up
12:46 nubbins` asciilifeform looks all A-OK to me
12:46 thestringpuller it has a $200 expense for phuctor
12:46 thestringpuller that will be recurrin
12:46 asciilifeform anyway nubbins` i srsly have nfi why the 17 was put in as bitbet expense, ask mircea_popescu, i'm not his mother.
12:46 asciilifeform and yes if i were bbet shareholder i'd be going ???.
12:46 asciilifeform but i;m not.
12:47 asciilifeform if i had to guess (why?) - say - drill.
12:47 thestringpuller asciilifeform: Are you familiar with the Dark Knight Returns?
12:48 asciilifeform nope.
12:48 nubbins` asciilifeform if you'll recall, i'm unable to ask mp because he has me on ignore; i've asked him via gribble ;;echo but he has deigned not to respond, save only through his girlfriend, who had nothing sensible to say
12:48 asciilifeform nubbins`: i think you did a perfectly fine job of putting the argument in the logz.
12:49 nubbins` asciilifeform thanks, it's refreshing to learn that at least one other person present is able to obtain information from words that have not been packaged up into a "blog post"
12:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35400 @ 0.00053446 = 18.9199 BTC [-] {2}
12:50 nubbins` just as long as we're all on the same page here that the 17 btc is fraudulent and mp is refusing to admit his fraud, i don't really have anything else to add, aside from shredding the ridiculous rebuttals put forth so far
12:50 nubbins` kakobrekla do you think you could make the "PAYOUTS CANCELLED FOREVER" text a bit smaller? it's taking over the whole page
12:51 nubbins` brb lunch
12:56 * shinohai waves at #b-a from his hot air balloon powered by todays logs.
13:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33792 @ 0.00053402 = 18.0456 BTC [-] {3}
13:00 nubbins` i can't see bitbet staying around as a going concern if mp doesn't eat crow
13:00 nubbins` seriously: outstanding bets that are in the system RIGHT NOW will be heading to mp's pocket later, to pay him back for his personal loss
13:00 nubbins` why the fuck would you use such a site?
13:01 nubbins` kakobrekla is gonna be pissed when he realizes that under mp's proposed terms, kako doesn't see a dime of dividend payouts until mp is made whole again
13:02 nubbins` even hanbot must be ashamed of him
13:05 PeterL anybody want to guess as to whether one of the winning bets on the JebBush bet was owned by mircea_popescu? who got the extra 7btc payment?
13:07 nubbins` nah, although i think it's fairly boilerplate that if there's x to be made by betting y on a late bet, it happens
13:07 nubbins` rubes wouldn't normally wager 7 btc to earn 0.4, but if you hold the keys, it's less of a gamble
13:07 PeterL yes, large late bets are common, but it could be mp doing it
13:08 nubbins` sure. why not / who cares?
13:08 PeterL just saying
13:08 nubbins` i always assumed it was so
13:08 nubbins` https://bitbet.us/bet/791/s-mg-above-2x-par-on-october-1st-2014/
13:08 assbot BitBet - S.MG above 2x par on October 1st, 2014 :: 1.18 B (8%) on Yes, 14.07 B (92%) on No | closed 1 year 5 months ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1LarJZV )
13:08 nubbins` see 8btc final bet
13:13 nubbins` i should make a bet, "mp will attempt once more to remove nubs from lordship list by march 9"
13:13 nubbins` oh, wait, payouts are on hold
13:27 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22496 @ 0.00053357 = 12.0032 BTC [-]
13:29 nubbins` mpoe sinking like a stone since mp falsely claimed a chinese cartel fork
13:29 nubbins` guess investors finally had enough crazy
13:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25804 @ 0.00053357 = 13.7682 BTC [-]
13:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20550 @ 0.00053357 = 10.9649 BTC [-]
13:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58100 @ 0.00053342 = 30.9917 BTC [-] {3}
13:55 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00053332 = 2.4533 BTC [-]
14:00 jurov !rate nubbins` 2 voice of sanity
14:00 assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/0a8571dc1513d7d0
14:00 jurov !v assbot:jurov.rate.nubbins`.2:e0d6b842084c5b88117ec108fc92582260506c5b83c14a923a960458fb9655fb
14:00 assbot Successfully added a rating of 2 for nubbins` with note: voice of sanity
14:09 deedbot- [Qntra] Google Tries Juicing Ad Sales WIth Appeal To Vanity - http://qntra.net/2016/03/google-tries-juicing-ad-sales-with-appeal-to-vanity/
14:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00053357 = 2.5078 BTC [+]
~ 20 minutes ~
14:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30807 @ 0.00053357 = 16.4377 BTC [+]
14:41 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00053357 = 11.5251 BTC [+]
14:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3023 @ 0.00053332 = 1.6122 BTC [-]
14:52 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50129 @ 0.00053332 = 26.7348 BTC [-]
14:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44783 @ 0.00053329 = 23.8823 BTC [-] {4}
15:07 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40600 @ 0.00053357 = 21.6629 BTC [+]
15:13 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00053357 = 1.7074 BTC [+]
15:18 asciilifeform so i reread the log, and,
15:18 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424835 << is important point.
15:18 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 16:12:01; mircea_popescu: PeterL when the ceo of a company makes a stupid mistake, the company pays for it. there are exactly no exceptions to this rule, nor will there ever be. morever, even when what the ceo does isn't a stupid mistake, the shareholders still pay for it.
15:19 asciilifeform if mircea_popescu pulled the reactor control rods out because he had a drink too many, the shareholders, per the spec, have precisely two options - to forgive him, or to sell
15:19 asciilifeform as far as i can tell.
15:21 asciilifeform and this is not a mega-surprise, it is quite how the 'separation between the man and the uniform' thing works.
15:22 asciilifeform there is nothing in the bbet listing concerning 'if officer blows up the reactor, he will pay for it out of his lunch money'
15:22 asciilifeform because we are not in the soviet air force.
15:22 nubbins` there is, however, a thing in the bbet listing about not putting private expenses on the books.
15:22 asciilifeform aha
15:22 asciilifeform there is.
15:23 nubbins` a private expense being, e.g., mp spending his own money out of free will
15:23 nubbins` aka tx B
15:23 asciilifeform actually i have no idea where B came from
15:23 asciilifeform perhaps it was freshly-incoming bbet meat.
15:23 asciilifeform or change. or whatnot.
15:24 nubbins` that's worse.
15:24 nubbins` that's taking new funds to pay off an old debt
15:24 nubbins` aka a ponzi
15:24 asciilifeform well in that case it wouldn't be 'his own money', but legit operating meat, no?
15:24 nubbins` ask madoff about legit meat
15:24 asciilifeform why ponzi ?
15:24 asciilifeform i dun get it
15:24 jurov i'm rather curious if the point 3.2d was fullfilled, i.e. kakobrekla agreed with whole crapolade
15:24 jurov ?
15:24 nubbins` asciilifeform B was money for another bet payout -- from what will B's winners be paid? C?
15:25 deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.11995078 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b141
15:25 nubbins` D?
15:25 asciilifeform nubbins`: recall, mircea_popescu said something to the effect of that he was putting out a fire.
15:25 asciilifeform with whatever was in reach.
15:25 nubbins` jurov iirc no; let me find link
15:26 nubbins` http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424941
15:26 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 16:31:53; kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424891 < this is not so. it was not bitbet experience (for example i was not even aware of any of it) and publishing your interpretation on qntra does not assert absolute truth, it just tells everyone who reads it what you think.
15:26 nubbins` he did it behind kako's back
15:26 nubbins` that's 3.2 (d) and (h) busted
15:26 jurov well, we have breach of conract then
15:26 nubbins` yes, doubly
15:27 nubbins` unfortunately, in the case of breach of contract:
15:27 asciilifeform nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-03-2016#1424847 << suggests that it was not 'behind back' but the normal operation of bbet
15:27 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 16:13:55; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the way it worked, from the beginning, was that he did the site and i did admin and payouts.
15:27 nubbins` 4.3. Should BitBet fail to execute this Agreement, as for instance by but not limited to breaching 3.2.h above, MPEx will notify the named individuals of their breach and may, at its sole discretion, suspend the asset from trading thus activating the liquidation of the asset.
15:27 nubbins` ,"may", "at its sole discretion" do nothing, also
15:27 nubbins` asciilifeform then the listing agreement is extremely poorly written
15:27 kakobrekla asciilifeform things of far lesser importance were normally discussed by 'the board'.
15:28 jurov but i wouldn't call it ponzi, at least till bitbet has equity
15:28 nubbins` <+asciilifeform>with whatever was in reach. << madoff was putting out fires with whatever was in reach, too
15:28 asciilifeform i admit that i don't see the ponzi aspect here.
15:28 nubbins` nothing noble in the act, in and of itself
15:29 nubbins` jurov i wouldn't either; i don't believe B was from another bet
15:29 nubbins` ponzi is the alternative explanation, if B was not mp's funds but was funds from another bet
15:30 nubbins` so your choices are ponzi or fraud, served with a side of breached contract
15:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36014 @ 0.00053448 = 19.2488 BTC [+] {4}
15:30 nubbins` my guess is fraud; alf's suggestion that B was nipped from another bet is suggesing ponzi
15:30 asciilifeform i am also sympathetic to the argument that the currency chair broke when he sat down on it and wtf.
15:31 nubbins` but i don't think this is necessarily alf's position
15:31 nubbins` oh, me too. i'm not sympathetic to children playing at adult games tho
15:31 asciilifeform so chair collapsed and he grabbed whatever pipe was within reach.
15:31 nubbins` "their money, my money, whatever"
15:31 jurov stfu you redditor!!11
15:31 nubbins` heh
15:32 nubbins` that was mp's strongest rebuttal
15:32 asciilifeform anyway i have nfi, will let mircea_popescu explain whether his chair collapsed, which pipe, if any, he grabbed, what kind of reactor coolant came out, etc.
15:32 asciilifeform rather than trying to telepath.
15:32 asciilifeform which i am not any good at.
15:32 * nubbins` is still curious how kako feels about being denied his dividends until mp gets 17btc worth
15:33 nubbins` that's gonna take like a year or two, man
15:33 nubbins` long time to work for free
15:35 asciilifeform incidentally, i also have nfi how the 'zero asset' thing works. i.e., what was the plan if somehow bbet had lost x btc through some other misfortune.
15:36 asciilifeform somehow i can't picture that 'zero asset' means 'dies if the wind farts on it'
15:36 asciilifeform does it ?
15:37 nubbins` not my story, i have nfi.
15:38 nubbins` i guess the plan was for mp to bail it out and trawl the divs for x months
15:38 nubbins` he could've picked a better month to try it
15:38 nubbins` also seems a fairly retarded way to run a business, now that this has happened
15:39 nubbins` just think: if bitbet had socked away the 10btc that the random dude said it stole from him, there'd only be a 7 btc fraudulent expense on the books
15:39 nubbins` https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339544.0 << aka the death knell of bitbet
15:39 assbot BitBet Stole ~$7,000 from me (10 BTC) ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCqtie )
15:39 asciilifeform nubbins`: if he had wanted to bail it out, he could have trivially - and anonymously - throw in however many coin.
15:39 asciilifeform and it would have been 'donation to shareholders'
15:40 nubbins` yep
15:40 nubbins` instead, he chose to...
15:40 asciilifeform and no one would even have noticed that any was lost.
15:40 asciilifeform but he did not do this because he is a ~principled~ fella.
15:40 nubbins` lol.
15:40 asciilifeform think.
15:40 nubbins` i resent the implication that i haven't been
15:40 asciilifeform nubbins`: you eminently also have been.
15:41 nubbins` you're not passing this off as being principled
15:41 nubbins` not happening
15:41 asciilifeform why would an unprincipled mp ~not~ anonymously fill in the hole ?
15:41 nubbins` why would judas rat out his buddy?
15:42 nubbins` |0|
15:42 asciilifeform you think mircea_popescu actually ~needs~ the 17 for something ?
15:42 nubbins` no, i don't
15:42 asciilifeform i think he uses more than 17 btc of toilet paper whenever he shits.
15:42 asciilifeform (with gold leaf.)
15:42 nubbins` sure, why not
15:42 nubbins` which is why it's insane that he didn't shrug off the loss
15:42 nubbins` and instead chose to breach a contract
15:43 nubbins` egregiously and unapologetically
15:43 asciilifeform the way i'm reading it, he was trying to make a point, that the currency is broken (and it is), and that he refuses to be held to answer for ~it being broken~
15:43 nubbins` oh, so he didn't know it was broken before this?
15:43 nubbins` hadn't taken a look at the rat's nest?
15:43 asciilifeform not to this degree ?
15:44 nubbins` in fact, he pushed out A1 knowing precisely the spaghetti-mess it was being pushed into
15:44 nubbins` ten american cents would have effortlessly done the job
15:44 asciilifeform i hold myself responsible for some of mircea_popescu's rage. and think that it is justified. because the thing ~is~ br0k3n.
15:44 nubbins` but he said:
15:44 nubbins` fuck everybody, i am mp. a 0-fee tx "should" work in my ideal utopia, so it's everyone else's fault if something weird happens
15:46 nubbins` asciilifeform guy said himself A1, A2 should never have worked.
15:46 nubbins` didn't give a fuck, tried em anyway
15:46 asciilifeform nubbins`: if i had to guess, a1 was sent with default knobs.
15:46 nubbins` because wooooo spring break
15:46 nubbins` default knobs!
15:46 nubbins` did he send it from his windows box?
15:46 nubbins` or his ipnohe?
15:47 asciilifeform mpb prolly.
15:47 asciilifeform which i know ~0 about.
15:47 asciilifeform for all i know (and i have said this) it runs on kremvax.
15:47 nubbins` "the default settings should be good enough, even though an iota of thought would reveal that they're not"
15:47 nubbins` right
15:47 nubbins` so you're blaming the black box?
15:47 asciilifeform nubbins`: default settings worked on every day prior to day x.
15:47 nubbins` sure about that?
15:48 nubbins` wait, right, black box.
15:48 asciilifeform again i have nfi, but this is the most parsimonious hypothesis
15:48 asciilifeform based on what mircea_popescu said in his article.
15:48 nubbins` most persnickety
15:49 asciilifeform nubbins` carefully inspects his chair every day before he sits down in it ?
15:49 asciilifeform every time ?
15:50 asciilifeform and let's say the chair breaks one time, and nubbins` finds out that it was because of something a bunch of subhuman scum did.
15:50 asciilifeform what will he say ?
15:50 kakobrekla its not only that chair broke. he deliberately sat on it again (more precisely sat bitbet on it) after he noticed it was broken.
15:50 nubbins` if the chair accepted fees to better ensure my ass stayed sat, yes, i'd examine the chair very carefully when sitting for free.
15:50 nubbins` or, y'know, just pay the chair a reasonable fee
15:51 nubbins` say, nine cents.
15:51 nubbins` to sit $17,000 worth of ass
15:51 nubbins` back to the analogy drawing board
15:51 nubbins` kakobrekla he sat bitbet on it, then broke his own chair too, then billed bitbet for two chairs
15:52 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> nubbins` carefully inspects his chair every day before he sits down in it ? << This is inspiring a yard project. I have a tall yet narrow tree to take down. Will make a tree stake before gone forever!
15:52 nubbins` cannibal holocaust remake?
15:52 BingoBoingo nubbins`: Nah, just craft project. Not film project
15:52 nubbins` even better
15:53 danielpbarron maybe the 17 btc should be donated to bbet by s.nsa? If indeed the whole point was to make a point about the brokenness of bitcoin.
15:53 * BingoBoingo may have to make the jump to power tools. Crosscut saw has given arm a beating.
15:53 nubbins` danielpbarron hahaha now we're thinking outside the box
15:54 asciilifeform danielpbarron: how do the shareholders of s.nsa feel about such a thing ?
15:54 asciilifeform any happier than the bbet ones ?
15:54 asciilifeform jurov ?
15:54 nubbins` asciilifeform i think it's clear that the shareholders are happy eating salted shit
15:54 jurov asciilifeform: i do check the mempol stats before sending small tx
15:55 asciilifeform nubbins`: well danielpbarron was asking about s.nsa shareholders
15:55 jurov and ALWAYS add at least 0.00001,
15:55 danielpbarron heh i'm a shareholder of both, although not a very big one. full disclosure : i have more invested in bbet than nsa
15:55 nubbins` asciilifeform and his suggestion provoked a hearty lel from me
15:57 nubbins` for its novelty as well as its impropriety
15:57 nubbins` jurov i've never sent a 0-fee tx
15:58 asciilifeform danielpbarron: i must confess that if mircea_popescu was conducting an experiment to demonstrate the brokkenness of bitcoin, under the banner of s.nsa, he would have put it as expense in s.nsa statement.
15:58 nubbins` bitcoin's not for poor people
15:58 asciilifeform which we signed. and notice, there is not such a thing there.
15:58 asciilifeform so even though mircea_popescu is not here, i can say with some certainty that he was not conducting an s.nsa experiment that day.
15:58 jurov i have mostly (and painfully) divested from s.nsa, but think two wrongs does not make right
15:59 jurov (i.e. taking from s.nsa money for something it was not involved with at all)
15:59 nubbins` i don't think anyone's seriously floating that as a solution
15:59 asciilifeform danielpbarron suggested it, so i was curious re: his logic.
16:00 nubbins` in fact, the only rational exit is for the 17 to come out of mp's couch cushions
16:00 danielpbarron just seems like more of an nsa themed thing, but I'm no expert in these matters and I'm not married to the idea
16:01 nubbins` danielpbarron you're assuming this was not borne of incompetence
16:01 nubbins` i don't know why
16:01 nubbins` but it was
16:01 asciilifeform danielpbarron: this would, then, have the unpleasant flavour of the car wash folks, who wash you at a red light and then ask for pay.
16:02 asciilifeform which i do not think was meant here.
16:02 nubbins` bitbet got washed at a red by mp
16:02 nubbins` cost for 1 windshield: 17 btc
16:02 danielpbarron i'm not saying you haven't made some sound points nubbins` , but I trust Mircea more than I trust you, and that's that.
16:03 nubbins` danielpbarron as is your perogative; however, in a battle of trust vs facts, i'd rather stick with facts
16:03 punkman was this even the first time bbet double paid?
16:03 nubbins` speaking as a man of no religion, you understand.
16:03 nubbins` everyone's slice is buttered differently
16:03 punkman wow mega backlogs
16:03 nubbins` punkman sorry, 80% me
16:03 trinque I butter mine on both, use as a transportation device
16:04 nubbins` cool, do you get on the bread, drop it on the floor, and thusly get the fuck out?
16:04 asciilifeform at any rate, mircea_popescu is prolly off sitting in the war room recrunching the numberz, and will come back and either show us that we're idiots, or apologize and 'gracious donation to shareholderz.'
16:04 asciilifeform but imho it is not a very interesting thread without him.
16:04 punkman bitcoin runs on drama!
16:05 asciilifeform thus far this is reminiscent of the otp thread.
16:05 jurov asciilifeform: lol 'war room', do you remember he did accounting mistakes wrt bitbet divs almost every month?
16:05 trinque nubbins`: bawww
16:05 jurov and we all know discussing what mp should and should not do is in vain, but he's not alone in there. i'm looking forward to see how kakobrekla follows with this
16:05 asciilifeform jurov: i have nfi, i admit that i do not typically follow the subject
16:05 danielpbarron as to whether the listing agreement was violated, I hope for the sake of myself and other shareholders that bbet isn't liquidated at the specified price of 0.00001 btc per share
16:06 asciilifeform recall, i am here for slightly different reason than other folks, i'm not really an 'assets' fella
16:06 trinque nubbins`: you have an embarassing habit of throwing jabs at everyone in a room when you have a problem with one
16:06 asciilifeform i have no assets and no net work, i just like maths.
16:06 asciilifeform *net worth
16:06 nubbins` trinque take one on the chin, why don't ya
16:06 danielpbarron asciilifeform, you ~are~ an asset <3
16:06 asciilifeform l0l
16:07 trinque awwww
16:07 asciilifeform i think i am what mircea_popescu terms a 'shoemaker.'
16:07 asciilifeform which is fine with me.
16:07 asciilifeform (this is a term in ru also.)
16:07 nubbins` accounting mistakes wrt bitbet divs almost every month? << iirc there was an s.mg that had an error around my stock warrant too
16:07 danielpbarron i'm a shoe shipper hehe
16:08 nubbins` wow, he called me a shoemaker as an insult earlier
16:08 nubbins` MAYBE IT WAS A COMPLIMENT
16:08 jurov better than shoe polisher at any rate
16:08 danielpbarron well i don't masquerade as a finance expert while making my shoes..
16:08 nubbins` http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424381
16:08 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 03:01:31; mircea_popescu: !rate nubbins` -1 more or less shoemaker insistent on derping above the crepidam.
16:09 nubbins` danielpbarron this isn't expert finance, my buddy
16:09 nubbins` simple logic
16:09 * danielpbarron shrugs
16:10 nubbins` mp shrugged too, sux for everyone i guess
16:10 * nubbins` shrugs
16:10 nubbins` anyone else?
16:10 danielpbarron i'm baking an article about this for my blog, fwiw
16:10 nubbins` i won't read it, fwiw
16:12 asciilifeform i will read.
16:12 danielpbarron on a related note, neither is worth much
16:13 nubbins` heh
~ 18 minutes ~
16:32 davout oh god, such mega-drama
16:35 asciilifeform nah, this is mere kilo-drama.
16:36 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424706 << this got lost in the noise and i would like to come back to it.
16:36 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 15:34:51; dooglus: see main.cpp: int nLimit = 500 /* + locator.GetDistanceBack() */ ;
16:38 dooglus see also: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/951 -- if it's not illegal to post github links in here ;)
16:38 assbot Limit getheaders to a hard 2000. by TheBlueMatt · Pull Request #951 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1U0bTn3 )
16:38 asciilifeform i have to agree with mircea_popescu on this one , http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424756
16:38 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 15:47:24; mircea_popescu: it just turned a mild magic number ("get all the headers no less than 2000) into a fucking protocol limit. "only get 2k". this is utter nonsense.
16:38 asciilifeform dooglus: when trb disagrees with prb, prb is ipso facto wrong.
16:38 asciilifeform because wtf goats do not get to decide human questions.
16:38 dooglus sure
16:39 asciilifeform so this answers it.
16:39 asciilifeform if your client barfs when working with trb, patch your client.
16:40 dooglus I saw MP's "a cartel of Bitcoin miners is deliberately and systematically withholding blocks for an interval of about 20 minutes to a half hour" and was sceptical
16:40 dooglus then remembered prb's 0.12 release writes the current block height into the locktime of transactions it creates
16:41 dooglus see http://dpaste.com/0FCJN2C
16:41 assbot dpaste: 0FCJN2C ... ( http://bit.ly/1U0cchP )
16:41 dooglus weird distribution of current block heights there
16:41 asciilifeform dooglus: mircea_popescu does not use prb.
16:41 dooglus doesn't matter
16:42 nubbins` everyone else does
16:42 nubbins` and everyone else is who relays tx's
16:42 asciilifeform nubbins`: yeah but he baked the tx
16:42 nubbins` he baked his fucking betting website
16:42 asciilifeform so prb tx-baking behaviour would not influence matters
16:42 dooglus most people don't use prb - most transactions don't have a non-zero locktime - but lots do
16:42 nubbins` BingoBoingo how do / can i submit a qntra piece?
16:42 nubbins` it would be remiss for readers to miss out on a summation of this action
16:42 dooglus many other transactions in that block *do* have block heights baked into them
16:43 asciilifeform ah this is re: whether blocks are being withheld as per mircea_popescu's hypothesis.
16:43 pete_dushenski in other matters of discrepancy vis-a-vis bitbet, https://bitbet.us/bet/1217/bitcoin-main-net-block-size-to-increase-before/#c5748 https://blockchain.info/block-index/1087033/000000000000000006ee25df43ce4b44f6ee4f67032da09bba60001c34437017 http://blockr.io/block/info/401585
16:43 assbot BitBet - Bitcoin main net block size to increase before July 2016 :: 3 B (58%) on Yes, 2.18 B (42%) on No | closing in 2 months 3 weeks | weight: 40`287 (100`000 to 2`000) ... ( http://bit.ly/1U0ctRQ )
16:43 assbot Bitcoin Block #401585 ... ( http://bit.ly/1U0cwx7 )
16:43 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1U0cu8i )
16:43 dooglus right. the majority of txs which do have a height baked in were created 10 blocks before that block
16:44 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: what are we looking at here ?
16:44 pete_dushenski re links : number of txen, fees, hash, merkle root match - size of block and number of coins transacted do not match
16:44 danielpbarron nubbins`, http://trilema.com/2015/lacessiveram-editor/
16:44 assbot Lacessiveram editor on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1GY9tv0 )
16:44 nubbins` ty
16:45 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: dunno if this is a common occurrence, just noticed it because it was raised in bb comment.
16:46 pete_dushenski i haven't the patience to compare every listed tx. perhaps someone else has script or program for this
16:47 pete_dushenski nubbins`: for your (two)dogged persistence, cheers.
16:50 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: i do not. but this'd be a good beginner project
16:50 asciilifeform (write block disasmer that can take output of 'spitblock')
16:50 asciilifeform dumpblock, rather
16:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59550 @ 0.00053315 = 31.7491 BTC [-] {4}
16:51 asciilifeform and this is really appropriately a shiva project.
16:52 dooglus pete_dushenski: that block is 999962 bytes long, which is 976.5254 * 1024 - so that's the discrepancy
16:52 asciilifeform and now that i think about it, phf had a block disasmer in commonlisp.
16:52 thestringpuller ;;calc 976.5254 * 1024
16:52 gribble 999962.0096
16:52 asciilifeform but i have misplaced the link, and cannot find it in the logz
16:53 dooglus echo $((($(bitcoind getblock $(bitcoind getblockhash 401585) false | wc -c) - 1) / 2))
16:54 pete_dushenski so bc.info suddenly forgot that there are 1024 bytes in a kb, like the girl who thinks that her 3 months old son is '12 weeks old' ?
16:54 pete_dushenski strange.
16:55 dooglus they also think kB is spelled with a capital K. whenever blockchain.info disagrees with another block explorer, it's wrong
16:56 nubbins` pete_dushenski no hard feelings, i swear!
16:57 asciilifeform !up Chicago
16:57 nubbins` okay, pretty sure this qntra submission conforms to standard
16:57 nubbins` BingoBoingo what's next?! signed & ready to go
16:57 dooglus then there's this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibibyte telling me there are 1000 bytes in a kilobyte and 1024 bytes in a kibibyte...
16:57 assbot Kibibyte - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1OXTXBC )
16:58 shinohai dafuq?
16:58 nubbins` dooglus kibi/mibi/gibi has been the bane of many
16:58 nubbins` FWIW, this is why "1 terabyte = 1,000,000,000,000 bytes"
16:58 nubbins` because it actually does
16:59 * nubbins` always chalked it up to americans not using the metric system, in which kilo is 1000 by definition
17:00 asciilifeform i side with tradition and honest ram vendors vs. consistency and scummy hdd makers.
17:00 thestringpuller ram vendors are honest?
17:00 nubbins` fwiw, the "bi" is short for "binary", because -- yep, you guessed it -- 1024 is a tidy 2^10
17:00 asciilifeform thestringpuller: in the sense that they 1024.
17:00 nubbins` abusing SI prefixes is honest?
17:00 asciilifeform yes.
17:00 nubbins` no metric unit is 1024 anything
17:01 asciilifeform because those who stopped, stopped so that they could scam consumers.
17:01 thestringpuller 2^10
17:01 thestringpuller ;;calc 2 ** 10
17:01 gribble 1024
17:02 danielpbarron nubbins`> BingoBoingo what's next?! signed & ready to go << link the signed encrypted thing as a text file (on dpaste or your own site) in a later tell to Bingo
17:02 pete_dushenski nubbins`: lol is 'piece of shit' a term of endearment on your end of the globe ? i have a hard time keeping track of all the different culture nuances in this vast and expansive country of ours
17:03 danielpbarron make sure it's encrypted and not just signed.. otherwise the web crawlers get to read it first
17:03 pete_dushenski cultural*
17:03 pete_dushenski http://dpaste.com/0FCJN2C << v. interesting, dooglus
17:03 assbot dpaste: 0FCJN2C ... ( http://bit.ly/1U0cchP )
17:04 dooglus pete_dushenski: yeah, but what does it mean?
17:04 pete_dushenski i'm not qualified to say what it means !
17:04 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: hey there's no rule proclaiming that everybody has to be friendz.
17:05 asciilifeform nubbins` and pete_dushenski are entirely welcome to sit on opposite ends of the bar and give mean stares or whatnot.
17:05 nubbins` <+asciilifeform>because those who stopped, stopped so that they could scam consumers. << two wrongs make not a right
17:06 nubbins` [18:26:01] <+nubbins`>pete_dushenski no hard feelings, i swear!
17:08 BingoBoingo <nubbins`> BingoBoingo how do / can i submit a qntra piece? << sign/encrypt a document and pass it to me somehow
17:08 dooglus pete_dushenski: http://dpaste.com/382FKCJ
↖
17:08 assbot dpaste: 382FKCJ: blocks either side of 400739 show a similar pattern too ... ( http://bit.ly/1U0eX2G )
17:08 nubbins` tyvm, please see pm from gribble
17:08 nubbins` BingoBoingo LMK if you plan to not publish
17:09 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: to be sure.
17:09 pete_dushenski nubbins`: i gotcha ;)
17:09 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425662 << this very readily suggests to me a malleus-II
17:09 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 22:08:22; dooglus: pete_dushenski: http://dpaste.com/382FKCJ
17:09 asciilifeform that will refuse to relay tx where locktime is set.
17:09 BingoBoingo nubbins`: will let you know, but it seems rather long
17:09 nubbins` succinctness is not my strong point
17:12 BingoBoingo nubbins`: also wasn't encrypted
17:12 nubbins` lol why i gotta encrypt?
17:12 BingoBoingo seems a bit early to do a piece on this.
17:13 nubbins` breaking news, buddy. your loss
17:13 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113593 @ 0.00053404 = 60.6632 BTC [+] {5}
17:14 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34008 @ 0.00053225 = 18.1008 BTC [-] {3}
17:16 deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b142
17:18 davout dooglus: any interpretation for the data you posted? i fail to see anything meaningful to conclude from it
17:18 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55350 @ 0.00053615 = 29.6759 BTC [+] {3}
17:18 davout curious why you'd say "that's a weird distribution - 70 transactions were made when block 400728 was the current block, and only 16 were made at a later point in time" when the majority of the referenced transactions have a 0 locktime
17:19 davout am i missing something ?
17:19 nubbins` also, FWIW, S.BBET has officially missed the Feb 5th deadline for publishing a (signed) feb 2016 statement.
17:20 nubbins` according to the listing agreement (3.2 (g)), this can only happen once per year, and it's march 7th
17:20 nubbins` *march 5th deadline
17:20 nubbins` seems early to be using your lifeline
17:21 nubbins` guess it took a couple days to work up the courage to introduce that private expense
17:21 nubbins` unfortunately, by the logic of the listing agreement, feb 2016 statement is null and void no matter if kako signs or not
17:21 nubbins` better luck next month with the feb+march statement
17:21 asciilifeform nubbins`: gonna also apply to snsa ?
17:21 nubbins` asciilifeform i haven't read over s.nsa listing agreement in depth
17:21 asciilifeform did i ever even once publish a broadcast exactly on time ?
17:22 nubbins` dude, it even says "solemnly promise and warrant".
17:22 nubbins` 5th of the month.
17:22 nubbins` idgaf if they're published or not, but:
17:22 nubbins` The representatives of BitBet solemnly promise and warrant that complete and accurate Revenue and Net Revenue statements for each calendar month will be published by them no later than by the fifth day of the new month.
17:22 nubbins` instead, we have an incomplete, unsigned, inaccurate statement published on the 7th
17:23 nubbins` again, doesn't affect me, just saying. pretty cavalier.
17:23 thestringpuller are there any NSA statements published after the 5th?
17:23 nubbins` thestringpuller homework for ya
17:24 thestringpuller ain't nobody got time 4 that
17:25 nubbins` no kidding, i can only fit one broken contract in my head at a time
17:26 nubbins` i've made promises that are more thorough than this thing
17:27 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48350 @ 0.00053629 = 25.9296 BTC [+] {2}
17:34 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55800 @ 0.00053104 = 29.632 BTC [-] {5}
17:38 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00053067 = 10.2419 BTC [-] {2}
17:41 mircea_popescu in other news, http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1877403-stiuso-amenaza-para-cristina-y-desafio-para-macri
17:41 assbot Stiuso, amenaza para Cristina y desafío para Macri - 07.03.2016 - LA NACION   ... ( http://bit.ly/1QH5ZS5 )
17:41 mircea_popescu "El fiscal Alberto Nisman volvió a ocupar el centro de la escena. La investigación sobre su muerte está tomando una orientación, cuyo desenlace se puede prever: Nisman fue víctima de un asesinato en el que participó el gobierno de Cristina Kirchner, en combinación con agentes iraníes."
17:42 mircea_popescu looking for the low down on argentina ? read it in qntra today, or in the argentinian mass media a week later.
17:42 BingoBoingo lol
17:43 asciilifeform mircea_popescu !
17:43 mircea_popescu hm ?
17:44 asciilifeform see logz. reactor meltdowns, folks shat pants, etc.
17:44 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425011 << they should have been. except if the "non overlapping" sets of miners DO in fact overlap, in the sense of being merely meaningless facades of the same one thing, in which case they wouldn't necessarily know that they can be trivially fingerprinted by the symptom of "hey, apparently they know about a txn they shouldn't know about".
17:44 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 16:45:54; dooglus: if A1 and A2 went to non-overlapping sets of nodes then A2 should have been accepted and mined, right?
17:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform is there anything more than random derp of tenuous association with b-a has a total meltdown when he realises that b-a is not fiat, the republic not a democracy and i don't give a shit about "people themselves" ?
17:45 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425015 << you think so. but in reality, you're not actually part of the relay network.
17:45 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 16:47:14; PeterL: so maybe it was you!
17:45 mircea_popescu you just don't know enough about this sort of thing to find this out.
17:46 asciilifeform see log. jurov, kakobrekla, and i all wondered wtf mircea_popescu thought he was doing when he programmed a1
17:46 asciilifeform and i think nubbins` has gone to drink
17:46 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/BBoingo/status/706973928007151618
17:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform see above neh ?
17:47 asciilifeform i have nfi, and might be a shoemaker.
17:47 nubbins` told ya he was just gonna carry on like nothing's happened
17:48 asciilifeform how is nubbins` 'tenuous' ? i thought he was a serious stockholder, long before i even came here.
17:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform suppose there's nodes N1... Nn advertising themselves on the network. suppose you send txn X to all nodes Nk where k is divisible by 2, which has the properties that a) it would not be broadcast to any further nodes, and b) it would prevent transaction Y from being accepted in the mempool. suppose you verify that nodes Nk where k = 2i do not in fact advertise X. suppose you broadcast Y to nodes Nm where m
↖ ↖
17:49 mircea_popescu =2i+1. suppose you verify that nodes Nm do not advertise Y. is this proof sufficient to you that nodes N1... Nn is a charade, and they are all node N ?
17:49 nubbins` no need to defend my character, just note that the attack is ad hominem and not addressing any of the various logical fallacies projected by the attacker
17:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i seem to recall he failed both tests for continued lordship and was basically not on the list of names to be cleared because he asked not to be.
17:50 mircea_popescu this'd be my definition of tenuous.
17:50 asciilifeform he did ask
17:50 asciilifeform and deedbotted it iirc.
17:50 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-02-2016#1401640 << sometime there
17:50 assbot Logged on 10-02-2016 02:24:16; nubbins`: speak now if you believe a lord that has contributed TRB patches, who owns the second-largest s.mg stock warrant, who trades in the only physical collectibles that are priced solely in BTC, who pays the bill for eulora.org, who is the republic's de facto minister of letters awaiting with bated quill the whittling-down of a codebase fit to publish, should be stripped of his title; speak your treason now, th
17:51 asciilifeform or was this a different nubbins`
17:51 nubbins` nope, nickserv would not allow
17:51 nubbins` ;)
17:52 davout http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425729 <<< did you actually do this when broadcasting A1...4 ?
17:52 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 22:49:27; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform suppose there's nodes N1... Nn advertising themselves on the network. suppose you send txn X to all nodes Nk where k is divisible by 2, which has the properties that a) it would not be broadcast to any further nodes, and b) it would prevent transaction Y from being accepted in the mempool. suppose you verify that nodes Nk where k = 2i do not in fact advertise X. suppose you broadcast Y
17:52 mircea_popescu myeah.
↖
17:53 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425729 << yes.
17:53 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 22:49:27; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform suppose there's nodes N1... Nn advertising themselves on the network. suppose you send txn X to all nodes Nk where k is divisible by 2, which has the properties that a) it would not be broadcast to any further nodes, and b) it would prevent transaction Y from being accepted in the mempool. suppose you verify that nodes Nk where k = 2i do not in fact advertise X. suppose you broadcast Y
17:53 mircea_popescu minus the magic numbers, but this.
17:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is standard syblic detector.
17:53 mircea_popescu and so no, one who things "well there's nodes, so it's a p2p network" is utterly flattering himself. no such thing in bitcoin. there's a supernode, and a bunch of whatevers.
17:53 nubbins` <+mircea_popescu>asciilifeform i seem to recall he failed both tests for continued lordship and was basically not on the list of names to be cleared because he asked not to be. << memory failing you once again
17:53 mircea_popescu asciilifeform right.
17:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: if you actually did this experiment, and this was the result, then you just nailed a set of sybils, yes
17:53 asciilifeform but we knew that it was infested, no ?
17:54 nubbins` http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425743 mnope.
17:54 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 22:52:54; mircea_popescu: myeah.
17:54 asciilifeform all of my experiments pointed at precisely this conclusion.
17:54 mircea_popescu the chief problem with trying to communicate things is that there's always going to be a set of idiots / lazy thinkers who want a specific outcome out of the conversation, and then proceed to parasitize it with their half-assed sententious bullshit.
17:54 mircea_popescu anyway. to my eyes this is specifically and precisely said in the qntra piece, but w/e, more passes never hurt anyone, i guess. except if the passes are beatings or something.
17:54 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: well you also had a hypothesis concerning miners
17:55 asciilifeform which is what got folks rioting
17:55 mircea_popescu that's also in there. different part.
17:55 mircea_popescu let's just say that i lifted the rock and i saw every type of heresy in there.
17:55 nubbins` asciilifeform he spent all afternoon "napping" by throwing together some maths and deciding to switch stories
17:55 mircea_popescu which yes, on the sheer strength of the abundance and precision, "dang, this better be a nightmare"
17:55 nubbins` i guffaw loudly at the continued refusal to discuss 17 btc bitbet fraud
17:55 nubbins` and call shame upon mp
17:57 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i've been lifting the rocks for a while. but i do it with sapper's spade , but as i understand you did it with bbet's foot ?
17:58 nubbins` suppose i run two nodes, one a member of Nk and one a member of Nm. As long as my nodes are running proper sanity checks on each other (i.e. passing tx's between them), which obviously they should be because i'm not running SPV nodes, mp's "mathematical" argument falls apart at the seams
17:58 nubbins` nice try tho
17:58 asciilifeform nubbins`: what he was asking is, why would the nodes that he did NOT transmit a1 to, reject a2.
17:58 asciilifeform if they aren't relaying a1.
17:58 nubbins` numbers aren't your strong suit, maybe stick to doing the dark andreas antonolololopous schtick, it's what you're good at
17:58 asciilifeform this is a logical question.
18:00 asciilifeform nubbins`: they are, however, my strong point. and mircea_popescu asked an entirely logical q.
18:00 davout asciilifeform: i don't see how one could conclusively assert that A1 has not been relayed by the node one originally broadcast it to
18:00 nubbins` because two entities control most of the mining, and it's absolutely retarded for those same entities to not have a similar amount of control over nodes?
18:00 mircea_popescu anyway, if anyone had anythong intelligent to say that got buried in the spew, feel free to restate. i'm not wading through that pile of idiocy.
18:00 asciilifeform davout: if it ~was~ relayed, it would be mined.
18:00 mircea_popescu what has the log done to be reduced so!
18:01 nubbins` "feel free to restate"
18:01 nubbins` stating an argument once is insufficient
18:01 mircea_popescu davout because one can connect to it again and see what it says.
18:01 nubbins` you must then write a blog post
18:01 davout asciilifeform: a transaction being relayed does not imply it will be mined by anyone
18:01 nubbins` and restate on irc once more
18:01 nubbins` guffaw
18:01 asciilifeform davout: so a1 was rejected by miners because ????. and a few hundred nodes, a day later, showed no symptoms of knowing about it.
18:01 davout mircea_popescu: true
18:02 asciilifeform then ages later, it gets unearthed. by whom, and how?
18:02 davout asciilifeform: i have nfi, but absence of proof isn't proof of absence
18:02 nubbins` i also flatly disbelieve that mp sent A2, A..n to completely different nodes, because it's extremely, extremely relevant and didn't come out until his original argument shit the bed
18:03 nubbins` which by that time he'd been accused of thieving 17 btc
18:03 mircea_popescu a statement of fact is a statement of fact. it only becomes a proof if used in a reasoning. a fact and a proof are very different items : one's a realia, the other ideal.
18:03 nubbins` and generally royally fucking up
18:03 asciilifeform nubbins`: the most plausible scenario i can think of is that mircea_popescu's network has been boxed in by sybils.
18:03 nubbins` so, no, there's no Nm set of nodes.
18:03 asciilifeform aha, he's under a dome.
18:03 asciilifeform or however you say it in engl.
18:03 davout ftr i checked my own logs, and what they say is that my node heard about A1 around march 1st
18:04 mircea_popescu davout that was 2nd pass.
18:04 davout obviously
18:04 nubbins` ^ 2nd pass = A1 or A2?
18:04 mircea_popescu its sudden appearance was discussed in these very logs - even for that brief interval before it made it into a block.
18:04 davout now, i'm quite curious to actually see A2...4 with my own eyes, and check those too
18:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is obviously always possible. except it'd be bitbet, raqther than mp. i've been otherwise unmolested throughout.
18:05 mircea_popescu how are you going to see them ? they never made it.
18:05 dooglus davout: curious why you'd say "that's a weird distribution << when mining block N, I have my pick of all the transactions broadcast while block N-1 was the newest block. some of those will have decent fees. transactions broadcast while block N-10 was the newest block that haven't already been mined are probably not very attractive to mine now. so why is block N including so many transactions created 10 blocks ago and so few created 1 block ag
18:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: as discussed earlier, it is uniquely easy to do this to bbet.
18:05 nubbins` the most plausible scenario i can think of is that, like dooglus concurred, a shit-fee tx took forever and then got relayed
18:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no argument. in which it becomes entirely a bitbet's swamp, which bitbet has to drain.
18:05 davout mircea_popescu: i like to check stuff, maybe there's stuff to learn if i find out they somehow were relayed to my nodes at some point
18:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is so far imho the best argument for why it had to be bbet's foot on the mine.
18:06 mircea_popescu i'm willing, on general goodwill, to help. i am certainly not willing to underwrite an open ended personal support for some venture i happen to manage.
18:06 asciilifeform i'm not a bbet shareholder or for that matter anything at all, but am willing to help
18:06 mircea_popescu it is unclear what the help'd be at the present time, however. i see exactly no signs of any of the observed behaviours discussed in teh qntra piece anymore.
18:06 asciilifeform and so far my verdict is that bbet was sybilled into going under a dome.
18:07 asciilifeform but it is entirely unclear to me that miners had anything to do with the observables here.
18:07 mircea_popescu but, generally speaking, sybil testing on purported bitcoin nodes are a good idea, especially if carried out in secret and uncoordinatedly.
↖
18:07 asciilifeform (miners ~are~ misbehaving, as, e.g., i witnessed with my lee sedol bet. but this is separate.)
18:07 mircea_popescu asciilifeform how does a transaction that shouldn't even be relayed GET relayed, and then mined, in short order ?
18:08 mircea_popescu davout> asciilifeform: a transaction being relayed does not imply it will be mined by anyone << especially a 0fee one.
18:08 asciilifeform trivially: the sybilnet has a pet miner.
18:08 mircea_popescu but a pet miner is not good enough.
18:08 asciilifeform one of those block-a-day things.
18:08 asciilifeform perhaps the 'telco 241' or what was it.
18:08 mircea_popescu it is an intricate discussion, and one i'm unwillingto carry in the full detail, but on the basis of what i have seen, it is my considered opinion that at the time in discussion, the miner cartel was running a ~half hour block delay thing.
18:09 mircea_popescu and they put it in, at the ~same second they "broadcast" it to the hanger-on nodes.
18:09 nubbins` "one i'm unwillingto carry in the full detail" lololol.
18:09 nubbins` SFYL everyone
18:09 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i assumed that you had nonpublic intel that led you to say this.
18:09 davout dooglus: so in other words: block witholding
18:09 mircea_popescu i also said as much at that exact time, in this very chan.
18:09 asciilifeform but i have to say, it is not supported by the incident described in the article, and so this is giving folks indigestion, fwiw.
18:09 mircea_popescu and there are VERY GOOD game theoretic reasons for a miner cartel to do this.
18:09 asciilifeform because it looked like '1,2,3, ....magic happens, ... --> ergo x.'
18:09 mircea_popescu specifically because it allows them the only possible moat against competition
18:10 asciilifeform and very clearly there are mighty good gametheoretical reasons for the cartel.
18:10 asciilifeform it is half of why i believed that a cartel exists.
18:10 mircea_popescu asciilifeform when you say "it is not supported", what do you mean ?
18:10 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16477 @ 0.00053067 = 8.7438 BTC [-]
18:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the incident with bbet, can be explained without miner cartel.
18:10 asciilifeform evil nodes suffice.
18:10 mircea_popescu specifically the "sudden mining of an old 0fee tx" ? how ?
18:10 asciilifeform you just need 1 coopted miner.
18:11 mircea_popescu "pet miner". if pet miner has 1% of hash, the observed phenomena occur 1% of cases.
18:11 asciilifeform of modest stature.
18:11 mircea_popescu and if it doesn't find a block that day ?
18:11 davout http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425817 <<< the "sybil testing" part is not documented in the qntra piece or did I miss it?
18:11 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 23:07:12; mircea_popescu: but, generally speaking, sybil testing on purported bitcoin nodes are a good idea, especially if carried out in secret and uncoordinatedly.
18:11 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what makes you think they haven't been squeezing the trigger for 100 shots
18:11 asciilifeform until this finally fired.
18:11 asciilifeform i can easily see that this pistol might shoot 1% of the time the trigger is pulled.
18:11 mircea_popescu i've been watching. this is 1.5 to maaaaybe 2.
18:11 asciilifeform this, perhaps, was 100th.
18:11 mircea_popescu i had been watching. this, and many other things.
18:12 nubbins` the all-seeing eye
18:12 nubbins` shoulda been watching the mempool size when you pushed out a 0-fee
18:12 nubbins` this, and many other things!
18:13 nubbins` !rate mircea_popescu -1 basic scammer, no accountability
18:13 assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/286b8513cf86618b
18:13 mircea_popescu but anyway, yes, if you believe 1 in 100, they yes, you don't need cartel, just persistent miner.
18:14 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is my current picture.
18:14 nubbins` !v assbot:nubbins`.rate.mircea_popescu.-1:dbed451e84f3cd09d7ae986fa83201a1562d21d299af2619c70317009d6f5c28
18:14 assbot Successfully updated the rating for mircea_popescu from -1 to -1 with note: basic scammer, no accountability
18:14 nubbins` wow, was -1 already? lel
18:14 asciilifeform nubbins` i think you already did this earlier
18:15 nubbins` right, yes, much less succinct
18:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform by this logic tho, are there also 99 bitcoins we don't know about ? 99 linuxen ? 99 gccs that statically link ?
18:15 nubbins` the other one said something about "petulant and unwilling to admit error in the face of overwhelming evidence"
18:15 davout thinking about it, I interpret the fact that A1 did not (on first attempt) get relayed to my node as indicative of nodes *not* being merely facades for some sort of 'super-node'
18:16 mircea_popescu davout how do you figure ?
18:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: waiwut
18:16 nubbins` davout all it takes is a default setting of relayshitzerofeetransactions=FALSE
18:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: my hypothesis was that it suffices for the enemy to have a pistol that does this, e.g., per every N trigger pulls, and that the number came up.
18:16 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you know, and we for whatever reasons just see the 1 in 100 gunshot.
18:16 asciilifeform aha
18:17 asciilifeform much about the turdnet is stochastic, and so this is mega-unsurprise.
18:17 davout mircea_popescu: if everyone's actually the same node, broadcasting to one node is actually broadcasting to everyone, and it follows that it should have relayed properly. I guess it can also be the sign of your connections all actually being to the same sybilling node
18:18 asciilifeform davout: issue is that 'everyone knew' SOLELY for the purpose of rejecting a1...n but NOT for relay to miner!
18:18 davout nubbins`: for the tx not to relay at all it has to be 'false' for everyone
18:18 asciilifeform aha.
18:18 mircea_popescu davout i don't think you take my meaning. the situation that you imagine is, "hey, whatever, summertime and a bunch of us are at the beach". the situation in reality is, "a moroccan clan and some fat frenchies at the beach". guess how likely you are to a) find out the price of dried fruit and b) find out that you aren't finding out the price of dried fruit.
18:19 mircea_popescu or if you prefer, see phf's example with "my friend, the kgb agent"
18:19 nubbins` or, if you prefer, here's some gibberish in lieu of content
18:20 nubbins` ;;echo but where does that leave the 17 btc of your own funds that you put on bitbet's liability sheet?
18:20 gribble but where does that leave the 17 btc of your own funds that you put on bitbet's liability sheet?
18:20 mircea_popescu you think you're running a node, because, symptomatically, in the windows definition of running code (hey, click items till it works) you are. but the sense of running code contemplated for bitcoin is negative, not positive, and you don't know how to check for that nor do you specifically care.
↖
18:20 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is sorta sheckley's hour of battle thing.
18:20 mircea_popescu in a sense.
18:21 nubbins` ;;echo omg you guize i think he's actually just gonna pretend he hasn't defrauded bitbet and breached two sections of the contract
18:21 gribble omg you guize i think he's actually just gonna pretend he hasn't defrauded bitbet and breached two sections of the contract
18:22 davout asciilifeform: it might also very well be that most nodes use similar relay policies and that A1 simply didn't satisfy the relaying rules
18:22 mircea_popescu anyway, i've been thinking about your theory ever since, but i don't credit it asciilifeform. for one thing, it's unstable. seriously, supernode and miniminer ? it'd get torn apart.
18:22 mircea_popescu back in the day bitcoin mining was healthy, after a fashion, pools came and went. they've been stable for a long time now.
18:23 asciilifeform davout: if it did not satisfy relaying rules, WHERE DID IT COME FROM on day x !?
18:23 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: tell how not stable ?
18:23 asciilifeform some bastard is running 3000+ sybils. what's unstable here.
↖
18:23 mircea_popescu because the other miners would have an incentive to destroy the miniminer's supernode, and there's jackl the miniminer could do to protect it.
18:23 nubbins` <+asciilifeform>davout: if it did not satisfy relaying rules, WHERE DID IT COME FROM on day x !? << once the backlog was cleared, it satisfied relaying rules once again?
18:23 mircea_popescu a supernode only grows in the shade of miner cartel.
18:24 asciilifeform the other miners are amoeba ?
18:24 mircea_popescu i'm not saying what you're saying is provably impossible. i am saying to my eyes - it is very improbable.
18:24 davout asciilifeform: i do not claim I know where it came from, but do note that 'not being relayed by most nodes' is absolutely not conflicting with 'some dude rebroadcast it because he felt like it'
18:24 asciilifeform it is quite unclear to me that they have the brains of a teenager writing trojans in vb in murmansk.
18:24 mircea_popescu but i dunno how to carry that particular discussion in a way that'd dispose.
18:24 asciilifeform collectively.
18:25 mircea_popescu well... this is hard to argue against.
18:25 nubbins` so's a fraud accusation
18:25 nubbins` just as well to ignore
18:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 171492 @ 0.00053048 = 90.9731 BTC [-] {5}
18:25 mircea_popescu it is also the first time i've seeing you err on THIS side ever before.
18:25 mircea_popescu so i guess you do balance, after all !
18:26 nubbins` [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 171492 @ 0.00053048 = 90.9731 BTC [-] {5} man, i think my zinger triggered that one
18:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i conduct own 'intel', and yes, i don't have a radiotelescope like mircea_popescu's, only eyes.
18:26 davout http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425886 <<< well, I *am* running a node in the sense that I receive and broadcast transactions (with the occasional double-spend) just fine
18:26 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 23:20:09; mircea_popescu: you think you're running a node, because, symptomatically, in the windows definition of running code (hey, click items till it works) you are. but the sense of running code contemplated for bitcoin is negative, not positive, and you don't know how to check for that nor do you specifically care.
↖
18:26 mircea_popescu my telescope, in it being man made not god given, is not much more than a tool.
18:26 mircea_popescu davout that's what i mean by positive. yes, "it works".
18:27 mircea_popescu this is very different from the negative, "it doesn't not work".
18:27 asciilifeform at any rate i am broadly unconvinced that network sybil octopus needs any kind of miners other than a small share of standard hashrate.
18:27 asciilifeform in order to wreck things.
18:27 asciilifeform sybil octopus can get between victim and miners as a whole. and yes, this is enabled by the concentration of hash power in a shithole kingdom.
18:27 mircea_popescu asciilifeform but in order to maintain itself!
18:28 mircea_popescu i mean... miners can just... ban it.
18:28 asciilifeform how do they identify the pseudopods ?
18:28 mircea_popescu "not our own" ?
18:28 davout mircea_popescu: well, it also "doesn't not work" in the sense that I sometimes have got transactions stuck because I'm a cheap zero-fee jew, that I got unstuck by issuing a double-spend
18:28 asciilifeform the miners gotta accept tx from white devils
18:28 asciilifeform because that's who does the bulk of tx-ing
18:29 davout now i'm unsure how to further go into negative bitcoin definition
18:29 nubbins` i'll leave you guys to your non-reality-based distractions, feel free to ping me if mp decides to address his fraud in any fashion.
18:29 asciilifeform they cannot plug the hose from their arse into their mouths and sustain themselves.
18:29 mircea_popescu davout i don't mean it as an attack or anything. and the question of exploring the negative is open now and will remain open until spec.
18:29 nubbins` asciilifeform i still need your mailing address
18:29 asciilifeform nubbins`: i will attend to this as soon as i get home.
18:29 nubbins` k
18:29 asciilifeform nubbins`: i am on the stake.
18:29 nubbins` hey, at least you didn't commit fraud
18:30 davout nubbins`: absence of proof isn't proof of absence yo
18:30 asciilifeform nubbins`: i'm about to commit gluttony and lust.
18:30 davout :D
18:30 * trinque fist-bumps asciilifeform
18:31 mircea_popescu asciilifeform even so, i don't think banning sybil reduces to "unable to talk to white devils".
18:31 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i suspect that they, supposing there were brains anywhere involved, ~tried~ to fight the octopus but eventually lost.
18:32 mircea_popescu i've encountered to signs of this animal, and this is such an unlikely event if there were a battle even ?
18:32 asciilifeform where, incidentally, do most tx fodder for cn miners originate ? i do not have good data for this.
18:32 mircea_popescu used to come straight out of bluematt's arse.
18:32 asciilifeform i am not in the habit of eating from arse.
18:32 mircea_popescu "lighting network"
18:33 asciilifeform so i have ~no data.
18:33 mircea_popescu or somesuch
18:34 asciilifeform at any rate, i have long seen nodes as an astonishingly weak point, which is why i pressed the whole pogo thing
18:34 mircea_popescu in any case : some degree of proxying is absolutely unavoidable in bitcoin relay , because ... ddos.
18:34 asciilifeform the whole orchestra does no one any good if there is reliably amoebic scum between your console and the free world.
18:34 mircea_popescu well yeah, had we had the pogos deployed last year or somesuch this might have been a very different story.
18:34 mircea_popescu but... no pogos. because no static linking in gcc. because etc.
18:35 asciilifeform the sad part is that i fixed pretty much all of the cthonic hell-pits that prevented pogo,
18:35 asciilifeform aside from the two listed earlier.
18:35 asciilifeform (the blkindex and mempool exhaustion)
18:35 mircea_popescu re prev point : so yeah, most strong nodes will have multiple interfaces they look at. so most people (who know, as opposed of feeling like they know) aren't necessariyl surprised by ~some degree~ of sybiling.
18:35 mircea_popescu which is what everyone (at least previously) told himself is happening to go to bed and not wake screaming
18:36 asciilifeform recently i contemplated doing a rotor port to a chinese tv box, 1G of ram, available for ~30 usd in qty. infinite. but when the fuck would i do this, a student ought to do this
18:36 mircea_popescu asciilifeform hey, don't feel bad, one can only try.
18:36 asciilifeform i have 256 fingers but they are all in some orifice.
18:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'g' is another angle of attack against the octopus.
18:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i'm sure nubbins` will be done derping idly, dump the ugly broad, get the fuck out of the meaningless paper products shuffling, get back in math school and generally make himself useful. any day now.
18:37 asciilifeform which is actually why i invented it.
18:37 mircea_popescu looking forward to the nubbins 1g box so he can be a lord on his own merit for once.
18:37 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you said chix can be taught anything. teach >= one to partake in this.
18:37 asciilifeform i would much appreciate.
18:38 asciilifeform ever see picture of the 19th c. german one-man band things ?
18:38 mircea_popescu do i charge s.nsa ? what's the shareholders think ?
18:38 asciilifeform a bloke with drum, tuba, etc.
18:38 mircea_popescu the long suffering s.nsa shareholders lol
18:38 asciilifeform that's me right now.
18:39 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i almost forgot that nubbins` was a math grad!?
18:39 asciilifeform but hm, iirc he was.
18:41 * asciilifeform will bbl, removing stake from arse, driving home.
18:43 cazalla now this is podracing! nice logs
18:44 pete_dushenski podracing ? like the episode i thing ?
18:45 cazalla it's a me me pete_dushenski
18:45 mircea_popescu curious how long before alf buys one of those self-driving cars so he can irc while he idles.
18:45 mircea_popescu ;;ud podracing
18:45 gribble http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Pod+Racing | When you jerk off two dicks at once. The dicks must be on each side, so it looks like you're pod racing.
18:45 mircea_popescu no homo.
18:45 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2543 @ 0.00053211 = 1.3532 BTC [+] {2}
18:46 cazalla ahah
18:46 pete_dushenski wasn't there a southpark about that ?/
18:46 pete_dushenski kyle's dad and a hot tub or something
18:46 cazalla nfi, have not watched many of the more recent seasons
18:46 cazalla don't recall that one in anycase
18:47 nubbins` "dump the ugly broad" is the best popescu can come up with as a rebuttal to legitimate accusations of fraud
18:47 nubbins` here's a quip for you, ya fuckin idiot
18:47 nubbins` [12:27:57] <nubbins`>look: true or false: mp is fraudulently entering 17btc into bitbet's liabilities
↖
18:47 nubbins` [12:28:04] <kakobrekla>correct
↖
18:47 nubbins` [12:28:23] <kakobrekla>i am not arguing that.
↖
18:48 * shinohai sighs
18:48 nubbins` sigh as loud as you want, he's not gonna read it or respond to it in any way
18:48 nubbins` because he's jsut a scammer
18:49 nubbins` always was shady, always was more about bluster than substance, but this abandons pretense
18:50 pete_dushenski cazalla: aha! http://southpark.wikia.com/wiki/Two_Guys_Naked_in_a_Hot_Tub
18:50 assbot Two Guys Naked in a Hot Tub - South Park Archives - Wikia ... ( http://bit.ly/1p3odpI )
18:50 pete_dushenski "Randy asks Gerald if he'd ever had a gay fantasy and Gerald explains that he has always thought of watching another guy masturbate. The fantasy then becomes a reality."
18:51 nubbins` http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425993
18:51 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 23:47:43; nubbins`: [12:27:57] <nubbins`>look: true or false: mp is fraudulently entering 17btc into bitbet's liabilities
18:51 nubbins` http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425994
18:51 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 23:47:43; nubbins`: [12:28:04] <kakobrekla>correct
18:51 nubbins` http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1425995
18:51 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 23:47:43; nubbins`: [12:28:23] <kakobrekla>i am not arguing that.
18:51 nubbins` ;;echo just for you mp
18:51 gribble just for you mp
18:51 cazalla fwiw, and isn't worth much, i think nubbins` has legit cause for complaint, shame to see the fangs and then venom flow though
18:52 cazalla pete_dushenski, never seen pod racing used in that context though, guess ill find a new me me
18:52 nubbins` cazalla understand that in the face of abject fantasy, i have no choice
18:52 pete_dushenski cazalla: gotta have fangs and venom, or else it's just huggy reddit...
18:52 nubbins` asciilifeform and others who have partnered up with mp should keep a close eye on things from here on out
18:53 nubbins` kako's straight-up getting scammed
18:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18800 @ 0.00053622 = 10.0809 BTC [+]
18:54 danielpbarron nubbins`, we get it already. I don't think spamming and circumventing other people's ignore help your case..
18:54 nubbins` i don't think you do get it
18:54 danielpbarron what should I do? /part ?
18:55 nubbins` no, you should stick around and say what you think
18:55 nubbins` precious little of that happening
18:55 cazalla pete_dushenski, sure, but sometimes a dry bite is all that's needed
18:55 deedbot- [Daniel P. Barron] Are you thankful? - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/are-you-thankful/
18:55 danielpbarron on that note..
18:56 nubbins` cazalla you'll notice that mp still has yet to address the fraud claims that kako's verified
18:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28307 @ 0.00053622 = 15.1788 BTC [+]
18:56 * pete_dushenski can't help but wonder if nubbins` has s.mpoe or s.bbet shorts. and if he didn't before, is now looking . if he just wants to "fleece some money out of [mp]", why not eh ?
18:56 pete_dushenski danielpbarron: glad to see you're blogging btw :)
18:56 nubbins` pete_dushenski that well's gone dry. mp only pays hangers-on in shares these days
18:56 danielpbarron and if my wwwtron dies again, i just archived it..
18:59 pete_dushenski nubbins`: but surely you could find someone who would sell you options
18:59 nubbins` pete_dushenski i'm long s.mg!
18:59 pete_dushenski last!
19:00 nubbins` i wonder how mp's gonna cash out my stock warrant if he's got me on ignore?
19:00 nubbins` "this stock warrant is valid forever or until you are mean to me"
19:00 cazalla nubbins`, mp did say you are more than free to have another lord relay any messages
19:00 hanbot jurov> !rate nubbins` 2 voice of sanity << jurov seriously, is yest/today's spewage what sanity is to you? are you out of yer mind?
19:01 nubbins` cazalla i care little for what that scammer says
19:01 * danielpbarron is fairly heavily invested in Eulora via his character who is one of the richest players in the world
19:01 nubbins` he's free to wrap his head in plastic
19:01 nubbins` hanbot weren't you told to shut up?
19:01 nubbins` adults talking here
19:01 cazalla nubbins`, sure, but now you're misrepresenting other issues
19:01 nubbins` cazalla like..?
19:02 jurov hanbot surprise surprise i happen to agree with the "spewage" ant i asked similar questions
19:02 nubbins` surprise surprise, jurov's questions were ignored too
19:02 cazalla he won't cash your stock warrant as he has you on ignore? it's clear such a request can be relayed to him if required
19:02 nubbins` cazalla lighten up pal!
19:02 cazalla nubbins`, tell me what you really think of me! lol
19:03 nubbins` i think you're a raw cunt
19:03 hanbot jurov you asked questions. all i see from nubbins is ~24hrs of rabbling, at pretty much anyone who tries to engage him.
19:03 nubbins` but that's just one man's opinion. liked your writing on qntra
19:03 nubbins` hanbot most adult speak sounds like gibberish to children
19:03 cazalla nubbins`, raw cunt is quite endearing to an australian :)
19:03 punkman imho, bitbet can decide to spend its future profits on whatever they want, advertising, servers, or 100% bonuses to random bettors. it doesn't make me want to buy more bitbet shares of course.
19:04 jurov hanbot rabbling is better than silence
19:04 nubbins` hanbot you'll notice that the adults in the chan actually engaged me in conversation: jurov, kako, alf, and others. it's only mp that's wagging his jaw and QQing
19:04 pete_dushenski ;;ud qqing
19:04 gribble http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=qqing | Top Definition. qqing. Whining/crying about something. From QQ. "Stop being sexist!" "Stop qqing." by A Person Who You Don't Know October 27, 2013. 13 7.
19:04 nubbins` fucking embarassing for both of you, really
19:04 hanbot okay, but is it -sanity-?!
19:04 nubbins` you're not fit to judge that
19:05 nubbins` pete_dushenski 2 big eyes w/ tears leaking out
19:05 jurov hanbot so tell us your opinion, is it sane what mircea did, without even telling kakobrekla, when contract demands unanimous agreement on such thing?
19:06 danielpbarron nubbins`, i'm trying to give you an out to the negative rating i fear i will eventually have to give you, and I don't mean that as a threat, just that at a certain point what you are doing is spamming, and i like to read this log every day and have the power to at least turn the nozzle two clicks towards the off position
19:06 pete_dushenski nubbins`: makes me think of japanimation
19:06 mircea_popescu cazalla everyone has very legit cause for complaint. the problem is that [the subsection of everyone who thinks the us is the world] imagines that the thing to do when you got legit cause of complaint is to try and identify a kulak and get him to admit his mistakes.
19:06 nubbins` danielpbarron if it's any comfort, i usually come here in bursts
19:06 mircea_popescu no idea why he imagines that'll carry, but whatever. it ain't gonna. he doesn't like bitcoin - he can either fix it or stick to cad.
19:06 nubbins` i thought it was mp who doesn't like bitcoin
19:07 nubbins` because it's been forked by chinese miners, his exact words were
19:07 mircea_popescu wanna complain, go negrate the set of power rangers that made this idiocy possible, da fuck already.
19:07 nubbins` http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47586
19:07 assbot A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCR1jt )
19:07 hanbot jurov hehe what're you doing with such loaded questions? mind you, i'm not suggesting you're wrong for disagreeing or asking or anything of the sort. i'm just curious about your judgment of what i see as a guy on full tilt.
19:07 jurov i like guys on full tilt!
19:08 hanbot lol
19:08 nubbins` danielpbarron also, as a lord, your clicks don't put me towards the off position at all
19:08 mircea_popescu i like guys on fult tilt too, is the weird thing.
19:08 danielpbarron hm.. idk if that's ever been tested actually
19:08 mircea_popescu ;;seen eskimobob
19:08 gribble eskimobob was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 years, 35 weeks, 2 days, 17 hours, 17 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <EskimoBob> no idea how executions are shown on btct
19:08 mircea_popescu wow it's been 3 years already ? too long, even.
19:08 nubbins` danielpbarron L1: 1
19:09 danielpbarron yeah but ability to self voice is through ~L2~
19:09 nubbins` jurov notice how hanbot didn't answer your question
19:09 nubbins` because it's obviously not sane but she can't just SAY SO
19:09 * nubbins` chuckles
19:09 nubbins` imagine finding yourself in such a spot
19:09 deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Ethereum to top $1 billion market cap before 2017 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1248/ethereum-to-top-1-billion-market-cap-before/#b22
19:10 mircea_popescu jurov contract demands unanimous agreement on dispositions of bitbet. if it's sold, say. it doesn't demand, nor has in practice been ever the case that its sought in all matters.
19:10 nubbins` jurov ask him about the putting a private expense on the books! see if he dodges it! ;p
19:10 mircea_popescu i had no idea he even wants or wanted the liability - but my guess is no, he didn't.
19:10 jurov 3.2h solemnly concerns *expenses*
19:10 mircea_popescu he also has had at all points ~0 say in how bets are resolved, for instance.
19:11 nubbins` maybe explicitly ask about the inputs of B: whose money? BitBet's? MP's?
19:11 mircea_popescu "t, that all expenses charged against BitBet will exclusively reflect expenditure in good faith resulting from the operation of its business"
19:11 nubbins` it seems you need to ask explicit, short, direct questions to allow mp's mind to absorb them
19:11 mircea_popescu this is what this is.
19:12 nubbins` lol he selectively quoted so bad that he got half a word at the start.
19:12 nubbins` quote the whole 3.2 (h) maybe?
19:12 nubbins` where it says you can't just donate 17 btc to the public and expect bitbet to pick up the tab?
19:12 jurov Well. 1.who and when decided to send zerofee tx 2. how is that evver acting in good faith?
19:13 mircea_popescu how is this open to your inquiry ?
19:13 nubbins` ^ stop asking questions, in other words
19:13 nubbins` how dare you call a fraudster a fraudster
19:13 nubbins` it was his right to introduce a private expense to the business
19:13 jurov *rolls eyes*
19:13 nubbins` his right as, uh.. whatever he is
19:13 mircea_popescu yes ?
19:13 nubbins` asasshole in a suit who can't count
19:14 jurov Yes.
19:14 mircea_popescu you think who and when decided what in a private corp is open to your inquiry because you have the ability to roll your eyes ?
19:14 jurov Yes.
19:15 mircea_popescu this is nice, but i don't credit it.
19:15 BingoBoingo <pete_dushenski> kyle's dad and a hot tub or something << Kyle's dad and Randy's dad. 2nd part of 3 that includes Jew Scouts
19:15 nubbins` lol
19:15 nubbins` jurov pathetic :(
19:15 jurov Others who are directly involved in the agreement may credit it.
19:15 jurov Or not, of course.
19:15 mircea_popescu i guess then they can answer or w/e.
19:16 pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: bingo.
19:16 nubbins` well, i guess this is what MPEx has been reduced to
19:17 nubbins` scam exchange
19:17 nubbins` no accounting standards
19:17 nubbins` sign the statements, don't sign em, whatever
19:17 nubbins` your money, my money, who cares
19:17 mircea_popescu jurov> hanbot rabbling is better than silence <<< not really. see the jirinovski problem. an idiot spewing makes the discussion that much harder for saner people with meaningful things to say.
19:17 nubbins` nobody seems to have anything meaningful to say but me
19:18 nubbins` and jurov
19:18 jurov mircea_popescu: well, if the discussion got so hard now, where are all the negrates?
19:19 mircea_popescu what do you mean ?
19:19 jurov if #b-a thinks nubbins` should not have a voice, let's negrate him
19:19 nubbins` lel
19:20 mircea_popescu looky, a republic is not a democracy no matter on what face you turn the democracy pebble.
19:20 nubbins` mp did negrate me, if you'll recall
19:20 nubbins` for all the good it did, being a lord and all.
19:20 nubbins` turns out he can only do so much
19:20 nubbins` doubt he ever thought his clubhouse'd end up like this
19:21 nubbins` if i had a satoshi for every time mp said "looky" when he'd lost an argument, i'd be able to donate a tx fee to bitbet
↖
19:21 nubbins` ^ that one was for you hanbot
19:21 nubbins` call me, k?
19:23 mircea_popescu but that aside, i did mean about the ugly broad and the general waster attitude. who knows, maybe discovering how little credit he carries with the people he likes and who he flattered himself into seeing as equals provides the much needed impetuus to make something of himself.
19:24 mircea_popescu this whole "nubbins, the guy who made some funny observations" thing is certainly punching below his weight.
19:24 nubbins` ad hominem attacks: often used by people who have valid arguments and can defend them on merit alone
19:25 nubbins` wait...
19:25 nubbins` FTR, calling my wife an ugly broad hurts just about as much as calling my left elbow a bicycle
19:25 nubbins` meanwhile, MP's girl with calves thicker than pete's thighs
19:26 pete_dushenski notpossibru
19:26 hanbot jurov i'll be doing that; ignoring him clears the shit from my client but not the nice logs, and after two attempts to get the guy to speak rather'n spew (just mine, mind you), we find the guy figures he's my "elder" because i asked some questions about gentoo, of all things.
19:26 * BingoBoingo awaits allegations of lasers
19:26 nubbins` pete_dushenski photographic proof!!
19:26 nubbins` http://www.loper-os.org/wp-content/tri2.jpg
19:26 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCT1Ip )
19:26 hanbot anyway i'm not sure if i oughta take jurov's rating as a wholesale endorsement. advise as ya like.
19:26 pete_dushenski nubbins`: let's just say i coulda done long track speed skating ;)
19:26 nubbins` heh
19:27 nubbins` never too late
19:27 nubbins` hanbot i'll take that as an apology, you're probably not so bad underneath that rough exterior
19:30 shinohai I must say hanbot - awesum outfit.
↖
19:30 nubbins` sucks about the scammer she's shacked up with huh
19:31 * danielpbarron sighs
19:31 danielpbarron !rated nubbins`
19:31 assbot You rated user nubbins` on 30-Jun-2014, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: He's good for a trade in the 1 bitcoin range..
19:31 danielpbarron !gettrust assbot nubbins`
19:31 assbot Trust relationship from user assbot to user nubbins`: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 10 via 12 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=nubbins%60 | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/nubbins%60/
19:31 danielpbarron !v assbot:danielpbarron.rate.nubbins`.-1:5a354a1ffe0871d83743d45093803fc184c2e412a326a17fe4b049761b7be9ad
19:31 assbot Successfully updated the rating for nubbins` from 2 to -1 with note: for the purpose of turning the spam nozzle two clicks towards the off position, and in the interest of discovering whether a lord can be silenced or not
19:34 nubbins` can he?
19:34 danielpbarron well that was only 2 clicks, 8 more to go
19:35 danielpbarron !gettrust assbot nubbins`
19:35 assbot Trust relationship from user assbot to user nubbins`: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 8 via 12 connections. |http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/trust/?from=assbot&to=nubbins%60 | http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/nubbins%60/
19:35 nubbins` 8+1
19:35 danielpbarron that remains to be seen
19:35 danielpbarron anyway, easy go easy come; I think you have some valid grievances, just going about it the wrong way
19:36 nubbins` hey, ya don't like the argument, it's your choice to tune it out. doesn't make it invalid
19:36 danielpbarron i don't like you abusing the bots to get around an ignore
19:36 nubbins` out of curiosity, what's the "right way" to go about airing my grievances?
19:37 nubbins` danielpbarron in fairness nanotube probably doesn't like it either
19:37 danielpbarron write a blog article, deedbot your formal accusation, say whatever ~once~ in the log (not 20 times)
19:37 trinque probably not firing off a "fuck you" to everyone you can think of in one conversation, l0l
19:37 trinque free to do it
19:37 nubbins` i did actually deed my formal accusation.
19:37 trinque but it's not persuasive
19:38 nubbins` http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424735
19:38 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 15:43:19; nubbins`: also deed-ified here: https://blockexplorer.com/address/1EyQFmKg6PtARLgN2bKtNuDY28um1nbfFr
19:38 danielpbarron i can actually did yours for you if you don't feel like figuring it out (it's very simple)
19:38 danielpbarron deed yours*
19:38 nubbins` sure, go ahead, it's here: http://pastebin.com/raw/6d72j4jZ
19:38 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1SubXdN )
19:38 nubbins` you owe me a satoshi if it feeds the same address as mine
19:38 danielpbarron deedbot- http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xCF2950F23C844002
19:38 assbot Public Key Server -- Get "0xcf2950f23c844002 " ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCU6A2 )
19:38 deedbot- Bad URL or network outage.
19:39 trinque erm no
19:39 trinque I would bet his key's already in there
19:39 trinque deedbot-: http://pastebin.com/raw/6d72j4jZ
19:39 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1SubXdN )
19:39 deedbot- accepted: 1
19:39 trinque ^
19:40 nubbins` what's the url for the deed log again?
19:40 nubbins` been so long
19:40 trinque deedbot.org
19:40 danielpbarron deedbot- http://pastebin.com/raw/6d72j4jZ
19:40 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1SubXdN )
19:40 deedbot- accepted: 1
19:40 nubbins` i think i last used it three iterations ago
19:40 danielpbarron there ya go
19:40 danielpbarron ah crap
19:40 trinque nubbins`: been about a year and a month, and I don't have any plans to shut it down
19:40 trinque danielpbarron: I will remove the dupe
19:40 nubbins` rad
19:40 * danielpbarron hangs head in shame
19:40 nubbins` trinque good to hear
19:41 nubbins` danielpbarron guess i coulda done it myself huh
19:41 nubbins` what's the refresh on the frontend?
19:41 BingoBoingo ;;google hugelkultur
19:41 gribble hugelkultur: the ultimate raised garden beds - Richsoil.com: <http://www.richsoil.com/hugelkultur/>; The Many Benefits of Hugelkultur | Permaculture Magazine: <http://www.permaculture.co.uk/articles/many-benefits-hugelkultur>; Hugelkultur - Inspiration Green: <http://www.inspirationgreen.com/hugelkultur.html>
19:41 danielpbarron yes that is what i told you around the time you just linked from the log
19:41 nubbins` 1 block i guess huh
19:41 trinque nubbins`: it'll fart at the hour, upload at the 15
19:41 nubbins` great
19:42 nubbins` anyway, my deedify script generated a pubkey of 1EyQFmKg6PtARLgN2bKtNuDY28um1nbfFr
19:42 nubbins` that was compatible with one of the early iterations
19:42 nubbins` wonder if it's still the case
19:42 * nubbins` awaits with bated breath
19:43 danielpbarron i think it depends if any other deeds get bundled with it
19:43 nubbins` right
19:43 trinque this one sha256's the bundle (all messages of that hour separated by single \n), uses that as privkey
19:43 nubbins` anyway, i deeded the thing myself earlier
19:43 nubbins` and posted the PGP-signed text in chan
19:43 nubbins` if that's not good enough for mp, well, bully.
19:43 nubbins` he can wait for the new deed and ignore that one too
19:46 nubbins` maybe toss a few more gem insults my way about my radiant wife or the fact that i'm financially unencumbered and spend my days in leisure
19:46 * pete_dushenski off to train the next generation of would-be long track speedskaters
19:47 * nubbins` off to smoke weed and count money
19:52 hanbot !v assbot:hanbot.rate.nubbins`.-1:001b32f62b0e9367cf7b1300337c3a35571273ba07885b35c1bd4fc70e900e0b
19:52 assbot Successfully added a rating of -1 for nubbins` with note: Thinks screaming at the dike plugs the hole. See http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424682 .
19:53 asciilifeform oh buggerall.
19:53 asciilifeform what does gentoo even have to do with it?!
19:53 asciilifeform nubbins`...?
19:54 BingoBoingo alf has boat, hanbot has dike, /me wonders what next metaphor for the waters BTC precariously insulates from will be
19:54 hanbot lol
19:54 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: btc is the good ship aurora.
19:54 asciilifeform y'know, the one with the cement bottom.
19:54 asciilifeform in the leningrad harbor.
19:55 trinque lol
19:55 BingoBoingo ah
19:55 asciilifeform https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heRWXcIkAFo << oblig.
19:55 assbot Что тебе снится, крейсер "Аврора" - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1QyYOgT )
19:56 shinohai dam
19:57 asciilifeform 'what are you dreaming, cruiser aurora '
19:58 asciilifeform http://www.amara.org/en/videos/PQ5XOPWfQ08Y/en/100549 << english.
19:58 assbot What are you dreaming of, Cruiser Aurora? with subtitles | Amara ... ( http://bit.ly/1QyZ6Ez )
19:58 asciilifeform anyway.
20:01 BingoBoingo In other news, is that a dick on the right side? https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Geomar-43-days-640x410.png
20:01 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCW5UV )
20:04 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1426161 << fwiw, some of the folks i showed that picture to, i suspect, literally creamed their pants
20:04 assbot Logged on 08-03-2016 00:30:14; shinohai: I must say hanbot - awesum outfit.
20:05 asciilifeform in unrelated nyooz, my rom emulator is here.
20:05 asciilifeform and holy shit, the chassis is ~steel~
20:05 asciilifeform 'made in usa'
20:05 shinohai O.o
20:05 asciilifeform i can almost imagine i live in 1980.
20:06 shinohai pics?
20:07 asciilifeform https://www.eetools.com/images/products/eerom_accessaries.jpg
20:07 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCWAP1 )
20:07 asciilifeform ^ it
20:07 asciilifeform pretty common unit.
20:08 shinohai That looks fun. :D
20:11 shinohai BingoBoingo: did you see what they called in to get that hamplanet off the truck today? https://vid.me/2Z7A
20:11 assbot 2016-03-07 170122000 4A542 iOS - vidme ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCX1bW )
20:12 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15146 @ 0.00053398 = 8.0877 BTC [-]
20:12 BingoBoingo shinohai: Can you give me a quick ;tldw
20:13 shinohai 'twas a special "HEavy Rescue Unit"
20:13 shinohai I kek'd
20:13 BingoBoingo lol
20:14 mod6 haha
20:15 shinohai I almost felt sorry for the cops tasked with detaining her.
20:15 BingoBoingo she prolly pooped in the car
20:22 shinohai I was actually surprised the roof of the truck didn't collapse under the weight.
20:30 BingoBoingo Beetus https://i.sli.mg/0fDvlN.png
20:30 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1p3z9DU )
20:33 shinohai Well at least you won't have to worry about her running around on you!
20:45 mod6 haha shinohai
20:47 asciilifeform mod6: mega-l0gz
20:51 mircea_popescu <assbot> with note: Thinks screaming at the dike plugs the hole <<< wait, did i just get called a fat homosexual woman ?
20:53 mircea_popescu asciilifeform> i can almost imagine i live in 1980. << the things one yearns for
20:53 * mircea_popescu thought the 80s fucking sucked. then again, back then hadn't seen the 90s. 00s. 10s. etc.
20:54 mircea_popescu shinohai no, that is PRECISELY what you'll have to worry about : her running around ON you.
20:54 asciilifeform everyone thinks this. until the world is replaced with brittle plastic.
20:54 asciilifeform and half-working machinery.
20:54 mircea_popescu absence of cool is no cooling of absence tho. 80s still fucking sucked.
20:55 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45410 @ 0.00053198 = 24.1572 BTC [-] {2}
20:55 mircea_popescu what was it, cher on every channel and the velvet fog on every radio ?
21:04 * asciilifeform goes, and looks up, what was a cher, and what is a velvet fog.
21:05 mod6 <+asciilifeform> mod6: mega-l0gz << oh yeah, been reading all day.
21:05 BingoBoingo cher is a sort of kaiju
21:05 asciilifeform wats a kaiju
21:05 * BingoBoingo assumes velvet fog is a tropical illness
21:06 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: a kaiju is one of those japanese monster from the films with the people in the suits
21:06 mircea_popescu sometimes if you crack open an acaju nut, a tiny girl comes out, and you feed her various comestibles and eventually grows up into a slavegirl.
21:06 asciilifeform godzilla?
21:06 BingoBoingo godzilla, cher, et al
21:06 BingoBoingo yes
21:06 mircea_popescu and this my dear alf is how slaves are born on the planet gor.
21:06 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i thought this was how you got momotaro, the peach pit samurai.
21:07 asciilifeform who slays ogres.
21:07 mircea_popescu also.
21:08 mircea_popescu ;;google velvet fog best of in autoplay format that can't be turned off. ever.
21:08 gribble Preview Unreal Engine 4.11 Preview [Archive] - Unreal Engine Forums: <https://forums.unrealengine.com/archive/index.php/t-94321.html>; 2015 Chrysler 300: <https://www.chrysler.com/assets/pdf/brochures/2015_chrysler_300_reveal.pdf>; Wednesday, November 01, 2006 - Zone Doubt (aka Surreal Я Us): <http://www.alestrel.blogspot.com/2006_11_01_alestrel_archive.html>
21:08 mircea_popescu holy shit ?!
21:10 mircea_popescu asciilifeform anyway, cher was a teenage pop singer chick that successfully pivoted into a sort of softcore burlesque career pre dita von teese. also married to sony bono.
21:11 mircea_popescu and the velvet fog aka mel torme was this very soppy lounge act / singer mostly on the old vegas circuit.
~ 25 minutes ~
21:36 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 147450 @ 0.00053198 = 78.4405 BTC [-]
21:48 BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all
21:49 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 413.9, vol: 5713.29998851 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 414.216, vol: 7342.69249 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 413.65, vol: 14857.74689053 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 422.0, vol: 3.54660738 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.047083, vol: 46801.24770000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 410.288, vol: 1164.83181327 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 417.484368, vol: 34.89035527 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
21:53 BingoBoingo ;;more
21:53 gribble 417.001259016
21:55 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1947 @ 0.00053397 = 1.0396 BTC [+] {2}
~ 23 minutes ~
22:18 mircea_popescu and in other news, treeforts! http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3t0uiZva01r4p8klo1_1280.jpg
22:18 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ypu459 )
22:21 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: One nugget you may have missed in the log shitting is that weather permitting this week I will attempt to do the tree to stake conversion for the art
22:21 mircea_popescu whassat ?
22:22 BingoBoingo Well, there's a ~15-20 foot tree that grew up as a weed and was neglected. Before taking it all the way down will convert it to pointed stake as I believe alf suggested as an idea in much earlier discussion
22:23 mircea_popescu lmao.
22:23 mircea_popescu inb4 city fine for zoning violation.
↖
22:24 mircea_popescu but bonus points if you do conversion with really large pencil sharpener
22:24 BingoBoingo Will only stay in that condition long enough to take a picture.
22:24 BingoBoingo Was going to do it with arm powered crosscut saw, but probably picking up a reciprocating saw tomorrow.
22:24 * BingoBoingo is getting old
22:25 BingoBoingo Can't landscape amish style forever
22:26 asciilifeform betcha tepes had a giant sharpener.
22:27 * BingoBoingo hasn't sharpened pencils with sharpener in a long time.
22:28 hanbot BingoBoingo stick a ragdoll-Muhammad on it!
22:28 BingoBoingo lol
22:28 BingoBoingo someone around here prolly makes ragdoll muhammads
22:38 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1426328 << mebbe he's zoned for impalement, l0l!
22:38 assbot Logged on 08-03-2016 03:23:51; mircea_popescu: inb4 city fine for zoning violation.
22:40 danielpbarron http://danielpbarron.com/pawns/
22:40 assbot pawns – Daniel P. Barron ... ( http://bit.ly/21UsGNi )
22:40 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Well just down the hill from here there is an arena where motor vehicles and farm equipment engage in gladatorial combat
22:44 BingoBoingo Anyways here the only zoning ordinances seriously enforced without neighbor complaints are those on commercial signage, because marketing sucks
22:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36723 @ 0.00053374 = 19.6005 BTC [-] {3}
22:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3277 @ 0.00053173 = 1.7425 BTC [-]
22:58 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24850 @ 0.00053089 = 13.1926 BTC [-] {4}
22:59 TomServo Pretty disappointing show 'round here today.
22:59 mod6 got that right
~ 18 minutes ~
23:18 ben_vulpes TomServo: in what way?
23:21 TomServo ben_vulpes: I'm not even sure where to start.
23:21 TomServo Lotza motza balls hanging out there.
23:23 BingoBoingo lol
23:24 deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 2.00000000 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b148
23:29 * asciilifeform rereads log
23:29 asciilifeform holy shit did nubbins` really put 10 on alphago ?!
23:29 asciilifeform out of spite ??
23:29 asciilifeform (how does this work?)
23:37 ben_vulpes [02:12:30] [mircea_popescu] so then, upon advice, i sent it separately. and it went through within half hour. AFTER WHICH somehow the txn was magically found, and… this time it wasn't dropped from mempool ? what changed since last week, mempool is even bigger now. << most underexamined line in this whole saga to date.
23:38 ben_vulpes http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-03-2016#1420397 << tastes great woth
23:38 assbot Logged on 02-03-2016 18:06:28; mircea_popescu: you know how it sometimes happens that a platoon gets sent on a random patrol, ends up surprising a moving contingent of enemy, a flurry of radioing and reinforcing and whatnot happens and suddenly the front is in a new place ?
23:38 ben_vulpes with*
23:38 ben_vulpes *undeservedly underexamined*
23:41 ben_vulpes what out-of-wot advice is this? and why send the wire twice instead of calling your drinking buddies who /use the same bank/ to ask if /their/ wires are in the habit of simply not showing up and what they've done in the past in the circumstances
23:43 ben_vulpes near as i can tell, mircea_popescu went to pop a mining cartel and only caught a sybil.
23:43 ben_vulpes 'tis quite obvious why this had to be done with poor kakobrekla's property and not his own.
23:45 asciilifeform apparently not ?
23:53 ben_vulpes bitbet's addresses are not so much public as waved eagerly to the world, and mpex' barely advertised, and i'd split my sides laughing at the notion there was only the one public mpex address
23:54 trinque I think ben_vulpes has it
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