Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2016-03-05 | 2016-03-07 → ↓
00:22 BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all
00:22 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 398.78, vol: 14818.59620292 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 402.739, vol: 8168.53208 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 397.0, vol: 45355.82363454 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 421.99, vol: 3.36559647 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 408.59049, vol: 61049.54870000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 395.593, vol: 3988.1908336 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 397.030903, vol: 137.36785246 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
00:22 BingoBoingo ;;more
00:22 gribble 402.806764405
00:26 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52800 @ 0.00054986 = 29.0326 BTC [+] {6}
~ 19 minutes ~
00:45 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2014/ill-pay-for-your-tits/#comment-116709 << lose a kingdom, gain another, or how did that go.
00:45 assbot I'll pay for your tits on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1SrkpdO )
00:46 BingoBoingo http://qntra.net/2016/03/leaked-voicemails-show-donald-trump-clinton-cozy-with-liberal-media/#comment-47903 << Much insult to MP
00:46 assbot Leaked Voicemails Show Donald Trump-Clinton Cozy With Liberal Media | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1Srkqyc )
00:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2623 @ 0.00054902 = 1.4401 BTC [-] {3}
00:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20891 @ 0.000549 = 11.4692 BTC [-]
~ 17 minutes ~
01:04 BingoBoingo ;;bc,stats
01:04 gribble Current Blocks: 401379 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 1820 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 0 hours, and 0 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
01:14 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00055237 = 3.8114 BTC [+] {2}
01:23 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7755 @ 0.0005509 = 4.2722 BTC [-] {2}
~ 44 minutes ~
02:08 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22239 @ 0.00055238 = 12.2844 BTC [+]
02:15 * ben_vulpes eagerly anticipating mircea_popescu's bitcoin eulogy
↖
02:26 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: how would you limit the number of addresses/coinbases in a pow-for-addr scheme?
↖
02:28 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10639 @ 0.00055426 = 5.8968 BTC [+] {2}
02:29 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37261 @ 0.0005496 = 20.4786 BTC [-] {3}
02:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23365 @ 0.00054866 = 12.8194 BTC [-] {3}
~ 39 minutes ~
03:11 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42000 @ 0.00055282 = 23.2184 BTC [+] {2}
~ 33 minutes ~
03:44 ben_vulpes http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116712 << asciilifeform, mod6, jurov, PeterL, mircea_popescu, kakobrekla (in moderation, hopefully passes the bowels of mircea_popescu's wprexen soon)
03:44 assbot The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QWvD4x )
03:49 ben_vulpes http://cascadianhacker.com/trilema_comment.txt << in case anyone is waiting on mp
↖
03:49 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1QWwaDt )
03:51 ben_vulpes if it's possible to confirm that the contents of `sig` corresponded to the *single* `addr` to which the block subsidy+fees (eg first transaction) pays out, i believe that the addidional `addr` header field could be omitted.
03:54 ben_vulpes duh yeah `addr` field not necessary
04:07 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38050 @ 0.00055298 = 21.0409 BTC [+] {3}
04:13 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7750 @ 0.00055282 = 4.2844 BTC [-] {2}
04:18 ben_vulpes http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-capacity-nightmare-fees-reality/ << annals of "don't mention qntra whatever you do"
04:18 assbot Bitcoin's Capacity Issues No 'Nightmare', But Higher Fees May Be New Reality - CoinDesk ... ( http://bit.ly/1p8htrn )
04:18 ben_vulpes unknown actor lol
04:25 ben_vulpes i think that the above change would necessitate a new genesis block, as i suspect that difficulty is far too high for the hardware capable of hashing as described to generate a single block in any sort of reasonable time
~ 38 minutes ~
05:03 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15550 @ 0.00055128 = 8.5724 BTC [-] {3}
~ 36 minutes ~
05:40 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423470 << trivially: an addr is valid if a coinbase some time fed it, and not otherwise. (in this hypothetical alt)
05:40 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 07:26:07; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: how would you limit the number of addresses/coinbases in a pow-for-addr scheme?
05:40 asciilifeform want an addr, mine a block.
05:43 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423477 << the way to kill pools is to hash he WHOLE BLOCK, rather than header. but as mircea_popescu pointed out, it is not merely ~pools~ that are colluding, but actual ~miners~, so it solves nothing.
↖
05:43 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 08:49:19; ben_vulpes: http://cascadianhacker.com/trilema_comment.txt << in case anyone is waiting on mp
~ 42 minutes ~
06:26 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67029 @ 0.00054915 = 36.809 BTC [-] {5}
~ 46 minutes ~
07:12 asciilifeform ;;ticker
07:12 gribble Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 405.45, Best ask: 405.47, Bid-ask spread: 0.02000, Last trade: 405.45, 24 hour volume: 43906.29639634, 24 hour low: 389.0, 24 hour high: 406.15, 24 hour vwap: None
07:13 asciilifeform ^ usg says 'ty mp, have moar fine fresh printolade'
07:15 asciilifeform 'got any moar of that sole known antiinflatronium you don't want? we'll buy!'
07:18 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72750 @ 0.00054749 = 39.8299 BTC [-] {7}
07:18 asciilifeform ^ shouldn't mpex be denominated in gold pieces-of-eight now?!1111
07:19 asciilifeform wb nubbins`
07:19 nubbins` ty
07:20 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.00054629 = 10.9804 BTC [-] {2}
07:20 * nubbins` went and built a computer from parts
07:20 nubbins` somewhat inexplicably, first time i've done so in my 34 years
07:20 asciilifeform congrats! Z80 or 6502?
07:21 nubbins` sadly, i went for the modern comforts of an i5 (i know)
07:21 asciilifeform urgh
07:21 nubbins` but it was beterrn that and the 6502 for a while
07:21 nubbins` between, even
07:21 nubbins` it's a "work machine", so i'm more concerned about how it runs illustrator than how well it protects the private keys that aren't on it
07:23 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16906 @ 0.00055082 = 9.3122 BTC [+] {2}
07:24 nubbins` speaking of work, i have a large number of S.NSA t-shirts still taking up space in my basement
07:25 nubbins` mircea_popescu the current lease on floor space expires April 30 2016; property will be considered to be abandoned if arrangements not made by that point
07:29 * asciilifeform had nfi
07:29 nubbins` going on 2.5 years now
07:29 nubbins` in retrospect, prob pulled the trigger a bit early on ordering tees
07:29 asciilifeform i'd buy'em but money broke.
↖ ↖
07:30 nubbins` they're already paid for 8)
07:30 asciilifeform dun work no moar.
07:30 nubbins` no?
07:30 asciilifeform see yest. logz.
07:30 nubbins` alf left the straight path to live the life of the boheme?
07:30 * nubbins` wanders off to read
07:30 asciilifeform not me
07:30 asciilifeform it.
07:31 asciilifeform !s from:mircea_popescu divesting
07:31 assbot 3 results for 'from:mircea_popescu divesting' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+divesting
07:31 asciilifeform ^
07:41 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20850 @ 0.0005535 = 11.5405 BTC [+]
07:45 assbot [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 465 @ 0.00260635 = 1.212 BTC [+] {8}
07:46 jurov !t m x.eur
07:46 assbot [MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.00254491 / 0.00257652 / 0.00262899 (1006 shares, 2.59 BTC), 7D: 0.00254491 / 0.00259324 / 0.00262899 (2053 shares, 5.32 BTC), 30D: 0.00253517 / 0.00272634 / 0.00332476 (10278 shares, 28.02 BTC)
07:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10308 @ 0.0005535 = 5.7055 BTC [+]
07:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53200 @ 0.00054568 = 29.0302 BTC [-] {4}
07:57 nubbins` ah
07:58 nubbins` asciilifeform i thought it was fairly obvious that MP had been divesting since he lost his shirt w/ MPOE?
↖ ↖
07:59 nubbins` or did you guys just assume that bitbet divs and a vidya game were enough to keep it all together
↖
07:59 deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 4.00000000 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b130
08:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109650 @ 0.00054457 = 59.7121 BTC [-] {8}
08:01 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423537 << you forgot mpex subscriptions
08:01 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 12:59:16; nubbins`: or did you guys just assume that bitbet divs and a vidya game were enough to keep it all together
08:02 nubbins` right, yeah
08:02 nubbins` i "forgot" those
08:02 asciilifeform ( easily 95+% of it all iirc )
08:02 nubbins` easily actually a thing that's real too
08:03 asciilifeform real vs what ?
08:05 nubbins` O.O
08:06 nubbins` made-up
08:06 nubbins` (what other vs did you expect?!)
08:07 asciilifeform i mean, if nubbins` thinks that mircea_popescu runs an arse-mouth system and buys own subscriptions, what does he pay divs from?
08:07 asciilifeform gifts from god?
08:07 nubbins` 6 vs half doz
08:07 nubbins` http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423412 << just so i can suggest appropriately, this is money you don't need/want for practical use?
08:07 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 02:44:42; *: asciilifeform all ears for ideas re: on what to blow a modest (~10kusd) worth of coin while it is still worth something.
08:07 asciilifeform nubbins`: didja catch up with the log?
08:08 nubbins` yeah, more or less. everyone QQing about the fyootur
08:08 nubbins` lords tossing themselves from the parapets
08:08 nubbins` anguished wails of those who have lost hope
08:09 nubbins` what i'm asking is if toilet paper is a good suggestion, or if a motorcycle is a good suggestion
08:09 nubbins` there
08:09 asciilifeform neither
08:09 nubbins` 's a reaosnable variety of ways one could blow $10k
08:10 asciilifeform didja miss the part where i refuse to give ANY of it to usg?
08:10 nubbins` well your other option is to keep it
08:10 nubbins` how else to ensure?
08:10 asciilifeform it can't at any point become usd.
08:10 nubbins` send it to 1bitcoineater.
08:11 asciilifeform well question was re how to usefully burn it.
08:11 nubbins` buy something with it. oh wait, the seller may convert it to usd.
08:11 asciilifeform buy what?
08:11 nubbins` guess you'll have to un-usefully burn it
08:12 asciilifeform there is literally nothing to buy
08:12 nubbins` buy some of my art books
08:12 mircea_popescu * asciilifeform had nfi >> you recall, we made a t-shirt design, he agreed to print for a very nice rate, ended up storing them for us.
08:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ah right
08:12 mircea_popescu nubbins` in honesty at this point i see ~0 chance we'll deliver in any sort of human timeframe, or for that matter have any use for 3 to 25 year old tshirts.
08:12 mircea_popescu thanks for your kind help in the matter - feel free to distribute the remaining tees to whosoever you feel like and that'd be that.
08:13 nubbins` understood. thanks for the work!
08:13 nubbins` was not insignificant for our fledgling business at the time
08:13 * asciilifeform still has a few sealed ones in crate
08:13 mircea_popescu ah, even better then!
08:13 mircea_popescu i don't even recall how many we ended up distributing, was it like 10% ? 25% ? 1% ?
08:14 thestringpuller oh man i'm getting old.
08:14 * thestringpuller just turned 28
08:14 nubbins` i think something around 20-30% of them left my hands
08:14 mircea_popescu oh, well then really - this is above industry average.
08:14 nubbins` thestringpuller you're technically still a child at 28
08:14 nubbins` mircea_popescu we've been moving the biz away from textile printing and towards paper/fine art printing
08:14 nubbins` margins way better
08:15 nubbins` storage easier
08:15 mircea_popescu see what you did that
08:15 mircea_popescu aha.
08:15 thestringpuller nubbins`: oh well cool. i guess I'll just wait for the big 3-0
08:15 nubbins` fucking up a t-shirt print = $6 wasted. fucking up a poster = $0.70 wasted
08:15 thestringpuller nubbins`: lithography?
08:15 nubbins` serigraphy, in fact
08:15 mircea_popescu i see what you did thar*
08:16 nubbins` flat stock is something people put on their wall & admire -- see "Imagine a game" bitcoin posters
08:16 thestringpuller you must really like screen printing! lol
08:16 nubbins` t-shirt is something people spill mustard on & get cum all over
08:16 mircea_popescu i think he does!
08:16 nubbins` indeed i do
08:16 nubbins` http://www.pinkeyeprints.com/product/a-whale-and-other-disorders-4
08:16 assbot A Whale and Other Disorders #4 / PINK EYE PRINT COMPANY ... ( http://bit.ly/1QCStii )
08:16 nubbins` our latest tome
08:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56500 @ 0.00054386 = 30.7281 BTC [-] {5}
08:17 thestringpuller i eneded up framing that print you gave me as bonus when I ordered shirts
08:17 nubbins` FTR i've been teaching myself hardcover bookbinding and TRB.book would have been gorgeous
08:17 nubbins` thestringpuller can't quite recall the print
08:18 mircea_popescu 18<nubbins`> buy something with it. oh wait, the seller may convert it to usd. << he got the exact answer, but wouldn't take it, because reasons.
↖
08:18 danielpbarron nubbins`, how much to send me a couple of those shirts :)
08:18 thestringpuller it has a cloud on one side and scissors in in the desert on another side
08:18 nubbins` danielpbarron PM with mailing addy and i'll get a shipping quote
08:19 nubbins` thestringpuller ahh yes, from pepa chan
08:19 nubbins` she has a piece in book linked above
08:19 asciilifeform 'On what grave, is carved the name of the self you lost?' -- from nubbins` link
08:19 nubbins` for whom does the night paint the dawn?
08:20 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423610 << why would i care what ~seller~ does with it.
08:20 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 13:18:04; mircea_popescu: 18<nubbins`> buy something with it. oh wait, the seller may convert it to usd. << he got the exact answer, but wouldn't take it, because reasons.
08:20 mircea_popescu no idea.
08:20 asciilifeform problem is that nobody's selling anything i need.
08:20 mircea_popescu but - eulora copper. not only exact answer, but provably the only one.
08:21 nubbins` no, problem is we don't know what you need because you're not telling us
08:21 * nubbins` can't imagine alf in a department store
08:21 mircea_popescu wait, the criteria is "buy something useful with bitcoin" && "seller may not give btc to usd" ?
08:21 mircea_popescu my dear alf, not even cardano would qualify!
08:21 asciilifeform dun need these for anything. i don't even own iron that could run eulora.
08:21 asciilifeform and again no
08:21 mircea_popescu maybe specifying the problem you're trying to solve would help.
08:21 asciilifeform ~i~
08:22 asciilifeform dont want to see usd.
08:22 mircea_popescu so, "buy something useful with bitcoin - must be physical item or service that i can use"
08:22 mircea_popescu ?
08:22 asciilifeform AHA
08:22 mircea_popescu SFYL.
08:22 nubbins` heh.
08:22 nubbins` waste it on shit
08:22 nubbins` what odds
08:22 mircea_popescu bitcoin, after night on a decade of empty posturing, has exactly no sort of useful anything on offer.
08:23 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16332 @ 0.00054385 = 8.8822 BTC [-] {2}
08:23 nubbins` shit, sorry, "what odds" is a newfy-ism
08:23 asciilifeform nubbins`: ~which~ shit
08:23 nubbins` asciilifeform that's what i've been trying to ask you and you've been steadfastly not answering
08:23 asciilifeform because that was my very puzzle!
08:24 nubbins` "what can i buy" as a process of elimination isn't something i'm interested in participating in
08:24 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4195 @ 0.00054361 = 2.2804 BTC [-]
08:24 thestringpuller mircea_popescu: it's a good place to store money when it's not in use...
08:24 mircea_popescu used to be, at any rate.
08:24 thestringpuller only good thing to sell BTC for is fiat, but whats the point in that if your income 99% fiat
08:24 nubbins` https://www.instagram.com/p/BCGPGdXERqU/
08:24 assbot Instagram ... ( http://bit.ly/21Pu7MV )
08:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu, as far as i can tell, is right, and there is nothing to buy.
08:24 nubbins` ^ my latest tome
08:25 asciilifeform thestringpuller: i won't sell for fiat because it gets taxed.
08:25 asciilifeform scorched motherfucking earth.
08:25 thestringpuller If you're paid in fiat why would you ever sell bitcoin at all?
08:26 asciilifeform thestringpuller: because it's going to 0?
08:26 thestringpuller going to 0 as in game over? or going to 0 for a minute then we'll be back to $X price.
08:27 asciilifeform the former.
08:27 asciilifeform see log.
08:27 nubbins` deal when we signed up was 0 or oo
08:28 nubbins` we all knew it
08:28 asciilifeform aha.
08:28 nubbins` asciilifeform there's always bullion
08:28 asciilifeform who in wot sells it?
08:29 asciilifeform IN MY WOT
08:29 asciilifeform and i'm not interested in it being scanned in usg mail, either.
08:29 nubbins` well that excludes ME from selling it to you
08:29 asciilifeform or 'lost'.
08:30 asciilifeform plus wtf do i need metal for.
08:30 * nubbins` sent a $17,000 package via fedex last year
08:30 asciilifeform would be again stuck with what useful thing to trade it for.
08:30 nubbins` you need metal to convert btc-usd without notice
08:31 nubbins` wait, you don't want usd or something
08:31 asciilifeform metal gets waterfalled with usg paper gold.
08:31 nubbins` too useful to pay rent or w/e
08:31 asciilifeform nubbins`: i don't want any of my btc to feed usg.
08:32 nubbins` you don't get to control what happens to it once it leaves your hands
08:32 asciilifeform nubbins`: you don't get it.
08:32 nubbins` apparently not
08:32 nubbins` try actually explaining this time
08:33 asciilifeform what i don't want is its motion to add to my detectable usg taxability in any way.
08:33 nubbins` right.
08:33 nubbins` so, obviously usg is reading this right now
08:33 asciilifeform which is why i won't accept usd wires from people, etc.
08:33 asciilifeform usg reads everything.
08:34 nubbins` right
08:34 asciilifeform recall kolhoz inmates refusing to plant?
08:34 asciilifeform killing own livestock?
08:34 asciilifeform well.
08:34 nubbins` what broad categories of goods or services would you accept in return for your btc?
08:35 nubbins` in a perfect world where the transfer of such goods or the provision of such services was able to take place in absolute secrect
08:35 nubbins` within the bounds of credulity
08:35 nubbins` take your time, i gotta shit
08:35 thestringpuller asciilifeform: then why business as usual if bitcoin is dead?
08:36 asciilifeform escape from my concentration camp, for one thing. But that costs 1000x what i have.
08:36 asciilifeform thestringpuller: ?
08:37 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16850 @ 0.00054361 = 9.1598 BTC [-] {2}
08:39 thestringpuller asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: BTC just failed, now what? << It seems business as usual tho...or is #b-a closing shop?
08:44 nubbins` lel
08:44 nubbins` alf the absolutist
08:44 nubbins` he can't just move out of DC, he has to do it on a carrier fleet
↖
08:44 nubbins` w/ air support
08:47 * nubbins` can't imagine the sort of mindset required to believe that the only two viable options for one's future are stasis or a $10mn windfall
08:47 nubbins` but this may be a failing on my part
↖
08:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2138 @ 0.00054842 = 1.1725 BTC [+] {2}
08:48 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2016/no-such-labs-snsa-january-february-2016-joint-statement/#comment-116714 << was this discussed ?
↖
08:48 assbot No Such lAbs (S.NSA), January - February 2016 Joint Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZOwNp )
08:51 nubbins` https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/496v30/so_it_was_a_fee_event_and_everyone_was_screaming/d0pk4vm
08:51 assbot Tibanne comments on So it was a Fee Event? And everyone was screaming and I was still confused. ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZOJQT )
08:51 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116715
08:51 assbot The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZOJjK )
08:53 nubbins` http://collectivelyconscious.net/articles/oscar-winning-star-wars-animator-admits-he-took-lsd-while-working-on-return-of-the-jedi/
08:53 assbot Oscar-Winning Star Wars Animator Admits He Took LSD While Working On Return Of The Jedi ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZOTaX )
08:53 nubbins` lule
08:53 nubbins` shit article, don't click
08:53 nubbins` but this quote is ok
08:53 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423469 << this is a while out yet.
08:53 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 07:15:37; *: ben_vulpes eagerly anticipating mircea_popescu's bitcoin eulogy
08:54 nubbins` “I took LSD when I was working on ‘Return of the Jedi,’ and it’s fine. It was, like, very calming. And so I decided to go back to work. When I walked into the blue-screen stage, it was like, ‘Ahhh.’ I took way too much,”
08:56 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423491 << hashing whole block significantly weakens the protocol against attacks from non-bitcoin actors however. think your conn rst sufferences on a large scale.
↖
08:56 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 10:43:36; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423477 << the way to kill pools is to hash he WHOLE BLOCK, rather than header. but as mircea_popescu pointed out, it is not merely ~pools~ that are colluding, but actual ~miners~, so it solves nothing.
08:57 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423517 << if you actually want them you prolly can have them for the cost of sheeping.
08:57 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 12:29:48; asciilifeform: i'd buy'em but money broke.
08:58 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423536 << obvious or not, not really the case. last i did something like this was when i said "100 is good enough" and people insisted on running up to 1k.
08:58 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 12:58:05; nubbins`: asciilifeform i thought it was fairly obvious that MP had been divesting since he lost his shirt w/ MPOE?
08:58 nubbins` heh
08:58 mircea_popescu and yes, i can readily credit myself retrospectively with saving bitcoin through that, but why even bother.
08:59 nubbins` nihilism ftw
08:59 nubbins` <+mircea_popescu>http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423517 << if you actually want them you prolly can have them for the cost of sheeping. <<< he's right
09:00 nubbins` wait now.
09:01 nubbins` alf is simultaneously saying he can't afford to get a box of shirts shipped to him, AND that he can't find anything to spend $10k bezzlars worth of btc on?
↖
09:01 mircea_popescu alf lives in a complicated world.
09:01 nubbins` in fairness, i'd ship the box via canada post.
09:01 mircea_popescu oh, why not bitcoin post ?
09:01 mircea_popescu you quisling you.
09:02 nubbins` no coverage in my area
09:02 mircea_popescu aw shit. i forgot.
09:02 nubbins` does virgin airlines take btc?
09:02 nubbins` or just the outer space one
09:02 mircea_popescu you could airdrop them from orbit on alf's house. seeing how he lives next door to obama's rural cousin #5460580, prolly give norad a good wake-up.
09:03 nubbins` that would require entering US airspace, which is on my verboten list
09:03 nubbins` ever since the nudie scans at the airports were deemed non-optional
09:03 thestringpuller oh man what an interesting birthday.
09:03 mircea_popescu heh
09:04 thestringpuller i figured node warfare would become a thing.
09:04 nubbins` just imagine how interesting it'll be in two years
09:04 nubbins` node warfare sort of is a thing already
09:04 * thestringpuller has a feeling he will be depressed when reading upcoming s.bbet statement
09:04 nubbins` just this upcoming one?!
09:04 nubbins` man, you guys must've missed me
09:05 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423707 << definitely discussed. there is deliberately no simple way of refirmwaring the thing.
09:05 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 13:48:35; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2016/no-such-labs-snsa-january-february-2016-joint-statement/#comment-116714 << was this discussed ?
09:05 asciilifeform so it's, at least without laboratory instruments, a once-per-device thing.
09:05 asciilifeform (i would even use antifuse roms but they are NOT SOLD)
09:05 mircea_popescu not the substance of the q as i see it.
09:05 mircea_popescu will the thing be buildable by others on a v process.
09:05 asciilifeform which then
09:05 asciilifeform yes.
09:06 asciilifeform this is key.
09:06 nubbins` http://i.imgur.com/VdqDetk.jpg
↖
09:06 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZQ5uU )
09:07 mircea_popescu aite.
09:07 nubbins` https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/495vr7/tifu_by_inquiring_to_apple_about_ibutt/
09:07 assbot TIFU by inquiring to Apple about iButt : tifu ... ( http://bit.ly/1oZQddZ )
09:07 * nubbins` commits seppuku
09:08 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423702 << i'm not interested in becoming an even poorer and lower peon in a shittier country. it's living-off-capital or death plox.
09:08 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 13:44:29; nubbins`: he can't just move out of DC, he has to do it on a carrier fleet
09:08 asciilifeform this is referred to as 'breaking out of gravity well'
09:09 thestringpuller asciilifeform: reminds me of affluent guy who ends up in witness protection washing rental cars for a living
09:09 nubbins` alf, i don't think you quite understand how few shittier countries exist than the one you're in
09:09 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yeah well for living off capital it helps having capital, and it helps even more (say H(N^2)) to be the kind of spirit that is helped by capital
09:09 mircea_popescu usually evidenced by having the capital in the first place.
09:09 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: no shit
09:10 * nubbins` flatly doesn't believe alf is "poor" in any reasonable sense of the word
09:10 asciilifeform nubbins`: as poor as any wretch. work-a-day-eat-a-day poor.
09:10 thestringpuller asciilifeform: do you live off food stamps, or drink 40's on the stoop?
09:10 nubbins` that's a function of how much you spend, not how much you make.
09:10 asciilifeform thestringpuller: understand what 'poor' means
09:10 thestringpuller how many black people live within 300 yards of oyu?
09:10 nubbins` thestringpuller he lives in DC
09:11 thestringpuller how many people do crack on your street?
09:11 asciilifeform thestringpuller: at least 20
09:11 nubbins` heh
09:11 asciilifeform how the hell would i know what dope my neighbours take ?
09:11 nubbins` for alf, "poor" means he can't stop working permanently
09:11 asciilifeform i don't take it with them.
09:11 asciilifeform nubbins` has it.
09:11 nubbins` that's a slave's definition
09:11 nubbins` enjoy yr chains
09:11 thestringpuller asciilifeform: you should move to projects for a year an live like the actual slave negros.
09:12 asciilifeform nubbins`: being a slave, it would be stepping outside of my competence to attempt the use of any other kind of definition.
09:12 * nubbins` lols, makes masturbatory gesture
09:12 nubbins` do go on
09:12 asciilifeform thestringpuller: the very poverty consists in the sort of things i do to ~not~ live 'in the projects', with roommates a la nubbins`, or eat recycled food, etc.
09:13 nubbins` more realistic is that you're just fucking terrible with money
09:13 thestringpuller asciilifeform: it's better to be a light skinned house-boy than to work the fields...
09:13 thestringpuller you get to eat wholesome meals instead of chitlins
09:13 nubbins` besides, i've sworn off roommates.
09:14 nubbins` a temporary situation, no longer required
09:14 asciilifeform thestringpuller: i must wonder if you would still agree if you knew what i do to pay for the 'get to'.
09:14 asciilifeform nubbins`: iirc we had this thread. you paid off the house.
09:14 nubbins` no b'y
09:14 nubbins` $180k outstanding
09:14 asciilifeform srsly could've sworn nubbins` paid off a house...
09:14 * nubbins` shrugs
09:14 nubbins` P
09:15 nubbins` 's house is halfway there
09:15 nubbins` could blank out the mortgage tomorrow, but dat capital gains tax.
09:15 thestringpuller asciilifeform: slavery is slavery, however i must admit house niggas were treated better than the outdoor field niggas.
09:16 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423732 << does nubbins` know how taxation works in usaschwitz ?
09:16 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 14:01:07; nubbins`: alf is simultaneously saying he can't afford to get a box of shirts shipped to him, AND that he can't find anything to spend $10k bezzlars worth of btc on?
09:16 nubbins` prob similar to how it works here in canadia
09:17 asciilifeform the way it works is that if i sold, e.g., 10k of coin, i get to give 4k to usg immediately.
09:17 asciilifeform fuck that.
09:17 asciilifeform i'd rather burn it.
09:18 nubbins` uhhh.
09:18 nubbins` 40%?
09:18 thestringpuller asciilifeform: why do you not launder money as to avoid taxation?
09:18 nubbins` wait, btc is money in the USA, isn't it?
09:18 asciilifeform thestringpuller: could've sworn we had this thread.
09:19 thestringpuller asciilifeform: we have, but I think you overestimate the facilities required to execute such a plan...
09:19 * nubbins` would get to give 1k to revenue canada if liquidating 10k of coin
09:19 asciilifeform nubbins`: we have something called 'tax brackets' here.
09:19 nubbins` we do here too, and capital gains are taxed at 11% across the board
09:19 asciilifeform oh and if usg decides that you did not pay enough, you get charged double-triple post-facto.
09:20 thestringpuller asciilifeform: if your rent is can be paid by money order, you can take bag of benjies and buy multiple US postal mondey orders...
09:20 thestringpuller you can launder up to $1200 at a time no questions asked
09:20 asciilifeform thestringpuller: it is not.
09:20 asciilifeform it is paid in electronic insta-tax usd.
09:20 asciilifeform solely.
09:20 * nubbins` sighs
09:20 * thestringpuller sighs
09:20 nubbins` without actual dollar figures these arguments are absolute fucking wankery
09:21 nubbins` and smth tells me alf would find it vulgar to quantify these vagaries
09:21 thestringpuller should be making "free asciilifeform" t-shirts and protesting the white house
09:21 asciilifeform l0l you'd have to free the other 10 mil rapemeat caste folk.
09:21 asciilifeform there is nothing particular about asciilifeform.
09:22 nubbins` there's nothing particular about anyone, pre-action
09:22 thestringpuller you are a unique snowflake asciilifeform
09:22 asciilifeform where was mircea_popescu's forks photo
09:22 nubbins` nothing particular about cluny macpherson until he invented the gas mask
09:22 asciilifeform >> http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/basini-unique.jpg << here we go
09:22 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1TjhHYN )
09:23 nubbins` (born 1879 st. john's twodogland, natch)
09:23 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423721 << can hear more about this plox ??
09:23 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 13:56:16; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423491 << hashing whole block significantly weakens the protocol against attacks from non-bitcoin actors however. think your conn rst sufferences on a large scale.
09:24 asciilifeform because i utterly don't get it
09:24 asciilifeform the conn rst thing is because we're talking to strangerz and using idiot unauthed plaintext.
09:24 nubbins` https://www.google.ca/maps/place/65+rennie's+mill+road/@47.5713426,-52.70955,3a,75y,251.39h,89.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4HAkVDP7JL-X-LtA-3TypA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xe5ce28b603c71da!6m1!1e1
09:25 assbot Google Maps ... ( http://bit.ly/1TjhV25 )
09:25 nubbins` ^ home of inventor of gas mask
09:25 nubbins` do a 180 and see the park where nubs plays frisbee and smokes dope
09:25 asciilifeform nubbins`: the venetians had gas masks.
09:25 nubbins` "modern" gas mask
09:25 asciilifeform ah
09:25 asciilifeform neato
09:25 nubbins` first general-issue mask for british troops
09:26 mircea_popescu asciilifeform think about it - decentralized, but no strangers ? how's this design supposed to even go ?
09:27 asciilifeform strangers when-there-is-room.
09:27 asciilifeform otherwise you talk to the other folks in your terror cell.
09:27 asciilifeform gossip.
09:27 asciilifeform (they - to theirs. etc)
09:27 mircea_popescu right. so now, internet overlord decides to rst all conns that are trying to move block-sized items back and forth.
09:27 asciilifeform how does he know you are moving block-sized item ?
09:27 mircea_popescu you can break bitcoin w/o breaking the internet, which is a problem.
09:28 asciilifeform all you have is a box spewing 512b packets at 100/sec.
09:28 asciilifeform forever.
09:28 asciilifeform or pick a number each hour.
09:28 asciilifeform this is 1960s tech.
09:28 mircea_popescu not currently made use of by teh bitcoin.
09:28 asciilifeform we don't even have a currently.
09:28 mircea_popescu lol point.
09:28 asciilifeform discussing hypothetical new pistol.
09:28 mircea_popescu so you want to have a proper meld here, gossipd-bitcoin
09:29 asciilifeform it is what i've been quietly laying out, yes.
09:29 nubbins` i'mma leave you guys to it
09:29 asciilifeform parachute.
09:29 mircea_popescu cheerios nubs.
09:29 nubbins` anyone else wants NSA tees for cost of shipping, send me a line
09:29 asciilifeform ;;later tell nubbins` how many can i get for 1btc.
09:29 gribble The operation succeeded.
09:30 mircea_popescu if you get them in one package, should prolly be "all of them", ie a crate. esp if no hurry.
09:30 asciilifeform nubbins` packs well, it was a mondo crate last time
09:30 mircea_popescu he does yeah.
09:30 * mircea_popescu has no complaints at all re nubs subcontracting, aaa would hire again.
09:30 * asciilifeform same.
09:32 shinohai ;;ticker --market all
09:32 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 408.03, vol: 13949.55909627 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 408.982, vol: 7682.02106 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 405.92, vol: 42128.66710141 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 421.99, vol: 3.36559647 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 414.38523, vol: 62416.85380000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 401.879, vol: 3457.6833331 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 395.964, vol: 256.64245295 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
09:33 shinohai ;;more
09:33 gribble 410.26856075
09:33 mircea_popescu asciilifeform for your own peace of mind : i would ~definitely~ support a beedog coin, irrespective of how cartel mining impasse is resolved or the eventual fate of current-bitcoin.
09:33 mircea_popescu we needed a 2nd for a long time anyway, wtf is this ripple eth ltc doge bs.
09:34 asciilifeform afaik there was not yet, to date, a from-scratch thing
09:34 asciilifeform even as crackpottery
09:34 asciilifeform everybody had chunks of rotting satoshade in there.
09:34 mircea_popescu yup.
09:35 mircea_popescu and there is a very good vp on the table. gossip + proper hashes and ciphers + correct pow + proper relay/mine design + + +
09:35 thestringpuller mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/ << well there was this, and then ATC failed around that time
09:35 mircea_popescu thestringpuller indeed.
09:35 mircea_popescu was a very instructive experiment.
09:35 asciilifeform thestringpuller: it was straight satoshi with new genesis iirc.
09:35 mircea_popescu yup.
09:35 thestringpuller for next experiment: remove satoshi and his dope from the equation completely
09:35 asciilifeform thestringpuller: what i was trying to say is that no one, afaik, has ever proposed and implemented entirely novel mechanism.
09:37 asciilifeform the one problem that i was not able to solve, now just as a decade ago when i started thinking about it, is 'initial allocation.' satoshi's solution, as can be seen now, was retarded.
09:37 asciilifeform but afaik there is not a plausible alternative.
09:38 mircea_popescu if mining works correctly (ie, as he naively intended it would) the initial allocation as designed is fine.
09:38 mircea_popescu i'll put some boxes to it as a seed, whosoever wants to do the same can do the same and it can take it from there.
09:38 asciilifeform well, he naively thought that nobody would throw $maxint at it.
09:39 mircea_popescu that was at no point the problem.
09:39 mircea_popescu bitcoin was fine, and would continue to be fine, as is, for any maxint.
09:39 mircea_popescu the weakness in the pow and the poor mining/relayer design created perverse incentives not directly apparent in the design phase, however.
09:40 asciilifeform this is so.
09:40 asciilifeform but the 51% thing was apparent from beginning, it was even in the paper.
09:40 mircea_popescu this is not a problem of scaling, even if it is a problem made apparent by scaling
09:40 mircea_popescu lettuce not blame the bearer of bad news.
09:42 asciilifeform did we ever do a thread on chiral miners ?
09:42 thestringpuller ah this makes me wanna finish my fictional story about plutonium coin
09:42 mircea_popescu !s chiral miners
09:42 assbot 0 results for 'chiral miners' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=chiral+miners
09:42 thestringpuller a coin which requires nuclear power plants worth of energy to mine single blocks
09:42 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this being, where you have two or more types of miners, who have inherently opposed interests
09:42 asciilifeform perhaps we called it sexed miners
09:42 asciilifeform i forget.
09:42 mircea_popescu this is "pools under another name"
09:43 asciilifeform how's that
09:43 mircea_popescu ipso definition, individual women in any gendered species are in the pool of womanhood ; and respectively males.
09:43 asciilifeform do wolf and deer make pools ?
09:43 asciilifeform (i.e. come to agreement)
09:43 thestringpuller asciilifeform: alpha wolf kills all the other males and takes women for himself
09:44 mircea_popescu the chief problem of human society is pool collusion in this view.
09:44 thestringpuller or is that lions...
09:44 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: my notion was that bitcoin suffered from a ~game-theoretically~ poor design.
09:44 asciilifeform in that there was no built-in incentive for defecting from a miner cartel.
09:44 mircea_popescu males trying to get together to gangrape individual females ; females getting together trying to create wailer choruses to keep the male group at bay, everything we don't like about society reduces readily to "it's not made up of individuals", ie, poolmined.
09:45 asciilifeform precisely.
09:45 asciilifeform hence you need defection-incentive.
09:45 mircea_popescu this is nonsense. you needn't balance the desire of syphilis to defect from syphilisdom by injecting my with tb ffs.
09:46 asciilifeform picture that you were newcomen and built a cruddy steam engine.
09:46 mircea_popescu so yes, bitcoin does suffer from game theoretical poor design, but this problem specifically can not be resolved by "adding another bug somewhere else, they'll cancel out".
09:46 asciilifeform piston - came loose.
09:46 asciilifeform ergo, engine came to equilibrium.
09:46 mircea_popescu the problem is that margin-driven mining creates centralisation necessarily.
09:46 asciilifeform but you do not want equilibrium.
09:46 asciilifeform you want ~dynamic~ equilibrium.
09:46 mircea_popescu trust me, unlike you that doesn't play, i ~created~ a homeostatic game world.
09:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: not 'bug somewhere else', but a payoff matrix that doesn't equilibrate at 'herd'
09:47 mircea_popescu and i'm telling you, the solution to a broken knee is not to break an elbow.
09:47 mircea_popescu well you'll have to be a lot more detailed then
09:47 asciilifeform if had detail, we would be testing a proggy.
09:47 asciilifeform rather than thinking.
09:47 asciilifeform !s axelrod
09:47 assbot 5 results for 'axelrod' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=axelrod
09:48 mircea_popescu lemme say that schelling points exist PRECISELY because ~irrational~ behaviour is an UNDEFEATABLE solution to your matrix.
09:48 asciilifeform !s prisoner's dilemma
09:48 assbot 7 results for 'prisoner's dilemma' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=prisoner%27s+dilemma
09:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it is a 'solution' in the sense that there is no exact pill against it, but is -ev for the player.
09:48 mircea_popescu ie, humans have a very lengthy, selected ability to centralize against the possibility of a nice world.
09:49 asciilifeform (i know of no system where random moves are reliably +ev)
09:49 mircea_popescu you're kicking the can. -ev for the player +ev for the group, we're buiolding the soviets omfg fuckme
09:49 asciilifeform l0l!
09:52 asciilifeform anyway the original point stands, bitcoin had no fewer than ~3~ types of animal - miner, node, tx-er. and they were supposed to stay in racul, broasca si o stiuca
09:52 asciilifeform but did not.
10:00 mircea_popescu not so. bitcoin had 3 types of animal, minerS, nodes, owners. notwitstanding the very problematic weakness of nodes, the minerS unicellular molds merged in one major piece of dogvomit.
10:01 asciilifeform isn't that what i just said ?
10:01 mircea_popescu this is what most molds do under environmental stress - which is exactly what the environment was designed to do to them.
10:01 mircea_popescu asciilifeform well, not exactly what you said :)
10:01 asciilifeform l0l
10:01 asciilifeform or we can lift from a mircea_popescu article, 'Another aspect is that new blocks are mined by one group (miners) but have to be stored in perpetuity by another group (nodes). This creates a situation where X (users) pay Y (miners) to inconvenience Z (nodes), which is unsustainable not to mention sheer nonsense.'
↖
10:02 mircea_popescu aha.
10:02 mircea_popescu purely for exploratory reasons - how far are you willing to take the gossipd ?
10:03 asciilifeform what does this question mean ?
10:03 mircea_popescu specifically what i mean - how about quantum money ? (yes sum X settled as Y in subgrapg S1, but as Z in subgraph S2. problem ?)
10:03 asciilifeform not only is it not a problem, but it is not escapable
10:03 mircea_popescu the [fundamentally centralzising] question of "tell me the one and only god-given truth as to ownership" dissolves in a cloud of acceptances.
10:03 asciilifeform ^
10:04 mircea_popescu ie, THEY think i paid you 5 btc, but THOSE OTHERS see that same 5 btc going to him. and well.. it's just how it is.
10:04 asciilifeform see also http://kyristor.com
10:04 assbot kyristor ... ( http://bit.ly/1OnKvZl )
10:04 mircea_popescu this notion of money is disjunct enough from the commonly held to be scary.
10:04 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20150 @ 0.00054575 = 10.9969 BTC [-] {2}
10:05 asciilifeform the quantum spiked dildo eases in less painfully when you realize that the interfering electrons etc were ~always~ there under the newtoniana.
10:05 mircea_popescu i don't expect this realisation to be within common reach.
10:06 mircea_popescu "non-inflationary, non-traceable" suddenly means something very different.
10:06 asciilifeform how much 'common reach' today for electrodynamics ?
10:06 asciilifeform and money, as i stole from another mircea_popescu article, 'is a function of the forum'
10:06 asciilifeform which means...
10:06 asciilifeform this.
10:06 mircea_popescu why do i always run into people nuttier than myself ?
10:07 mircea_popescu you're supposed to be a stabilizing influence in my life, world! wtf is this!
10:07 asciilifeform l0lZ!
10:07 asciilifeform well for some reason you sent hanbot to turn over dumpsters in alleys and find'em. so here i am.
10:09 mircea_popescu so basically, forking is +ev for participants until everyone's on his own chain. how does anyone transact this assperger coin ?
10:09 asciilifeform it is +ev in the same sense as being hikikomori and starving to death is +ev.
10:09 mircea_popescu yup.
10:09 asciilifeform is it ?
10:09 mircea_popescu apparently.
10:10 asciilifeform for the folks for whom it is.
10:10 mircea_popescu from a "critique of pure reason" standpoint, it is.
10:10 asciilifeform fortunately the 'pure reason' folks are yet only a subset.
10:10 asciilifeform and there are still people who get out of the house, cut steel pipes, etc.
10:10 mircea_popescu so the option is "either create a money that drives a government, or else create a money that drives a crazy" ?
10:11 asciilifeform somethinglikethat.
10:12 asciilifeform what we have now is an ad-hoc (2), the exhaust heat from which drives (1).
10:12 mircea_popescu ok, take the nonsense practically : there's A, as illustrated yesterday, the group of six nude ladies ; there's B, b-a. i hope you folks aren't nude atm ?
10:12 mircea_popescu now - person X comes to me with a 5 BTC which he wants to spend on milk. B sees the 5 as valid ; A, as invalid. i know both A and B. does this mean i have to choose ?
10:14 asciilifeform manually?!
10:14 mircea_popescu huh ?
10:14 asciilifeform choose
10:14 mircea_popescu at all.
10:15 mircea_popescu not being a superposition of eigenstates myself, but a resolved one, i can't both credit and not credit the 5btc. would seem i have to choose one.
10:16 asciilifeform well, gotta cut into detail. why, in this universe, does b see the 5 as valid, and a as invalid ?
10:16 asciilifeform i.e. why do their ledgers differ to begin with ?
10:16 mircea_popescu because B mined on the basis of the chain that it saw ; and A idem. there's no guarantee these would stay coherent, and so they didn';t.
10:16 mircea_popescu now the chains are split.
10:17 asciilifeform so when they meet, they reconcile the ledgers. and if one or more of the parties refuses to, they now have to march off into parallel worlds.
10:17 asciilifeform and never transact.
10:17 mircea_popescu why would they ever meet ? they're not meeting. ask your pet.
10:17 mircea_popescu and why would they reconcile ever if they met ? have you seen nude women together before ?
10:17 asciilifeform sorta like what happens today when mircea_popescu meets somebody who disagrees with him re: what 2+2 equals.
10:17 asciilifeform by 'meet' i specifically mean 'have to agree on something'
10:17 mircea_popescu <mircea_popescu> purely for exploratory reasons - how far are you willing to take the gossipd ? << how about quantum money ?
10:17 mircea_popescu what did you think i meant ?
10:17 asciilifeform this.
10:18 mircea_popescu so why would it require they "agree" ?
10:18 asciilifeform well, if we're going full-bore, the transaction takes two matrices and yields a third.
10:18 asciilifeform rather than a scalar.
10:18 mircea_popescu i dunno about your or anyone else's experience, but i personally have spent my entire life to date in the company of people whose takes were fundamentally irreconcilable. ever since a wee tyke doing double time between the upper crups exclusive school and the criminal underworld.
10:18 asciilifeform aha!
10:19 asciilifeform and so now we have money for them.
10:19 mircea_popescu so then. what do i do with the 5btc ?
10:19 asciilifeform well, it's no longer 5btc scalar. it is now... [[5 0] [0 0]] or the like.
10:19 mircea_popescu and you can not specify the bytesize of this item.
10:20 asciilifeform can you specify bytesize of old btc tx ?
10:20 mircea_popescu up to 1mb.
10:20 asciilifeform and this also up to 1mb. if you like.
10:20 asciilifeform which limits the size of the world, but nobody asked for an infinite world.
10:20 asciilifeform (happily)
10:20 mircea_popescu (notwithstanding all the idiots who "read" the code - it is there, specified. de facto, irrespective of intention, and besides the guy's intentions scarcely either made sense or made it into practice.)
10:21 asciilifeform sure is.
10:21 mircea_popescu so you're going to bake in a magic number which is the largest number of groups that may ever exist in anyone's view
10:21 mircea_popescu or is it "in everyone's view" ?
10:21 asciilifeform this is avoidable.
10:22 asciilifeform there are files in existence larger than your hdd. this bothers you ?
10:22 asciilifeform it does not bother me. if i need to create or receive such a thing, i buy moar disk. or tell the other fella 'make smaller files'
10:22 asciilifeform it stands to reason that folks would have some incentive to collapse their coinmatrices to manageable size
10:23 asciilifeform by reconciling groups when possible.
10:23 asciilifeform and arbitrageurs would buy 'heavy' coin for 'light'.
10:24 * asciilifeform dislikes 'magic numberz'.
10:24 mircea_popescu perhaps. let us leave this very dark tunnel for now.
10:24 * asciilifeform off to meatspace, unpacking fig trees from their winter tarps, bbl.
10:25 mircea_popescu try another : every morning when i wake up now, i read the log. this, i like. if i were using your coin, every morning when i woke up, i would conceivably be greeted by a list of notifications : "group X has now split. in five. would you like to name the shards or ignore the shards, for each shard ?"
10:25 asciilifeform ok we'll do this one.
10:25 asciilifeform why would you ever do this ?
10:25 asciilifeform does your linux box tell you 'your inode xxxx has split, would you like to ....... ' ?
10:26 mircea_popescu because if biulbiul has an argument with fatme, i am still fucking both.
10:26 asciilifeform but now you can. all that happens is that the matrices grow by a few bit.
10:26 mircea_popescu ;;search biulbiul fatme
10:26 gribble (search <word>) -- Searches for <word> in the current configuration variables.
10:26 mircea_popescu ;;google biulbiul fatme
10:26 gribble No matches found.
10:26 mircea_popescu pff.
10:26 mircea_popescu asciilifeform so i'd have to constantly see this.
10:27 asciilifeform ideally - never.
10:27 mircea_popescu pfff.
10:27 mircea_popescu what are you, satoshi ? plox no dumbo.
10:27 asciilifeform this is one of those things that will have to be built in a mechanical model, like maxwell's eq.
10:27 asciilifeform to be the least bit convincing.
10:27 mircea_popescu many questions remain, but the discussion has been interesting.
10:28 asciilifeform !s from:asciilifeform scalar
10:28 assbot 14 results for 'from:asciilifeform scalar' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Aasciilifeform+scalar
10:28 asciilifeform we already established that ~trust~ is not, in any reasonable model, a scalar.
10:28 asciilifeform why should money be ?
10:29 mircea_popescu not a question of ought, a question of is.
10:29 asciilifeform well yes.
10:29 mircea_popescu money IS. whether it'll ever be what it ought or not - welll, that's what engineers are for.
10:29 asciilifeform why would we imagine (aside from our newtonian tunnel vision) that it ~is~ a scalar.
10:29 asciilifeform was my question.
10:29 nubbins` asciilifeform: indeed, you can get all of them and more for 1 btc.
10:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform because convention. why do i imagine putting girl on knees is humiliating ?
10:29 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2014#456922 , http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-01-2015#967475 , etc
10:29 assbot Logged on 24-01-2014 04:36:33; asciilifeform: eventually people's brains will grow and they will stop thinking of market value as a scalar.
10:29 assbot Logged on 07-01-2015 02:35:36; asciilifeform: the notion of 'trustworthiness' as a scalar is fundamental to scamatrons of all stripes.
10:30 asciilifeform and yes, convention. newton's laws also make fine convention. until they don't.
10:30 mircea_popescu still do for most applications.
10:30 asciilifeform aha.
10:30 mircea_popescu not a question to be handwaved away.
10:30 asciilifeform as i think anyone living outside africa knows
10:31 asciilifeform anyway bbl, there are trees.
10:31 mircea_popescu later.
~ 17 minutes ~
10:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00054754 = 10.5675 BTC [+] {2}
10:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11306 @ 0.00054518 = 6.1638 BTC [-] {3}
10:59 shinohai prb v0.12.0 crashes my computer every time I start it up :/ (QT version anyway)
11:11 mircea_popescu this is good for bitcoin.
11:13 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24950 @ 0.0005441 = 13.5753 BTC [-] {3}
11:22 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12541 @ 0.00054323 = 6.8126 BTC [-] {4}
~ 37 minutes ~
11:59 punkman /me fixed toilet float with a toothpick
12:00 punkman I wonder wtf the last guy used to secure the float's lever because it must have dissolved
~ 18 minutes ~
12:19 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00054297 = 17.1036 BTC [-] {3}
~ 20 minutes ~
12:39 oglafbot http://oglaf.com/chamber/
12:39 assbot Chamber of Commerce ... ( http://bit.ly/1QXuZ6X )
12:50 shinohai Enjoyed the Qntra story spin too BingoBoingo
12:51 BingoBoingo shinohai: ty, but it's not spin. It is measured outrage.
12:51 BingoBoingo Seriously get a blog and practice.
12:51 BingoBoingo !up linton_s_dawson
12:57 punkman http://qntra.net/2016/03/correction-takes-bitcoin-network-difficulty-down-3-1/ << "total network hashrate estimates around 1.2 TH/s" only two orders of magnitude off
12:57 assbot Correction Takes Bitcoin Network Difficulty Down 3.1% | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1QXxgPz )
12:58 shinohai I am slowly losing any interest in Bitcoin besides a medium for buying drugs.
12:59 thestringpuller why can't we just have nice things...
12:59 shinohai ikr
13:02 BingoBoingo BITBET NOT ALONE http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47975
13:02 assbot A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1U4Gyyn )
13:09 punkman https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zRX5Wt4jHfA/VtUy3ieUilI/AAAAAAAAFcA/lOgxSl7orOo/s1600/0_table_29022016.png
13:09 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1U4HJ0W )
13:11 punkman https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xtHFMtrXHRk/VtUzs6lRPKI/AAAAAAAAFcY/WFiZG4Ei9Rc/s1600/3_pcnetworkHeatmap2016-02-29.png
13:11 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1QXzj60 )
13:18 * mod6 is finally caught up
13:19 mod6 interesting discussion today
13:23 thestringpuller mod6: pm
13:33 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.0005422 = 6.9944 BTC [-]
13:34 mod6 <+shinohai> prb v0.12.0 crashes my computer every time I start it up :/ (QT version anyway) << i lel'd.
13:36 * BingoBoingo after much gnashing and wailing beginning to see remaining utility in BTC almost exclusively as bridge to what comes next
13:38 BingoBoingo Whether next thing be beedog coin or arse wallet coin
13:39 mod6 i saw beedog coin mentioned earlier, is this just a madeup name for next-coin?
↖ ↖
13:40 BingoBoingo It seems to look like name for discussing attributes of hypothetical actual Coin
13:41 mod6 As shitty as all of this is, I think we're in a unique position now to actually resolve all of these issues that have been plaguing us from the beginning.
↖
13:41 mod6 I feel better about that.
13:43 BingoBoingo Seriously. The initial shock was unnerving, but then again what the fuck else had all the things qntra'd about added up to.
13:45 BingoBoingo Also exciting to se pogo dream may be resurrected.
13:52 mod6 I like the idea of possibly incorporating gossip into the mix.
13:58 * BingoBoingo especially fond of potential to avoid getting locked into cpp-isms
14:02 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21000 @ 0.00054354 = 11.4143 BTC [+]
14:06 mod6 BingoBoingo: yah, this too
14:07 BingoBoingo V-ified from actual completely gavin-free origin
14:07 BingoBoingo So what if it takes 5-10 years to gain mass traction as opposed to the couple hours a hardfork crisis would resolve in
14:14 mod6 Sure.
14:15 BingoBoingo brb gotta learn programmaring so can be of use when prototype emerges from a fever dream
↖
14:15 mod6 :]
14:16 mod6 asciilifeform: did you ever mention a de-facto ADA book?
14:19 danielpbarron http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-02-2015#1031708 << this?
14:19 assbot Logged on 24-02-2015 04:28:49; asciilifeform: just got 'ada 95: the language, reference manual, and standard libraries' ansi/iso/iec-8652:1995 in the post
14:20 asciilifeform mod6: the standard.
14:20 mod6 hey thanks
14:20 mod6 and as far as 'compilers', you suggest 'red dragon' as opposed to second edition 'purple dragon'?
14:21 asciilifeform ok to get the 2012 or earlier (but not 1983)
14:21 * mod6 mind-as-well round out the library
14:21 asciilifeform dragon or appel
14:21 asciilifeform i prefer dragon (red, with knight)
14:22 mod6 ok cool, first edition then.
14:23 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424125 << iirc that would be... asciilifeform
14:23 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 18:39:43; mod6: i saw beedog coin mentioned earlier, is this just a madeup name for next-coin?
14:25 asciilifeform i forget why.
14:25 asciilifeform !s beedog
14:25 assbot 3 results for 'beedog' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=beedog
14:26 * mod6 looks
14:27 mod6 yah.
14:27 shinohai >.>
14:30 thestringpuller dragon book is a hard read...
14:38 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10300 @ 0.00054376 = 5.6007 BTC [+]
14:38 asciilifeform i also considered standard-ml
14:38 asciilifeform instead of ada.
14:43 mod6 any particular reason(s)?
14:44 asciilifeform in logz
14:44 asciilifeform !s standard ml
14:44 assbot 3 results for 'standard ml' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=standard+ml
14:46 * mod6 reads
14:48 asciilifeform i like that there is more than one implementation
14:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00054376 = 4.3501 BTC [+]
14:55 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27708 @ 0.00054394 = 15.0715 BTC [+] {3}
14:56 mod6 now that this all happened, i kinda wish there was c4 this year.
↖
~ 21 minutes ~
15:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38350 @ 0.00054478 = 20.8923 BTC [+] {2}
15:26 deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b133
15:27 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15550 @ 0.00054289 = 8.4419 BTC [-] {2}
15:27 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424171 << lol what could we do that we can't do here..?
15:27 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 19:56:34; mod6: now that this all happened, i kinda wish there was c4 this year.
15:27 asciilifeform i suppose we could sync onetimepads.
15:28 mod6 ah yeah this ^
15:28 mod6 but would be cool just to meet and get around and discuss these things infront of a blackboard or whatever.
15:28 mod6 i guess we can do all of this here.
15:28 mod6 but something to be said for all of us in same room.
15:29 * asciilifeform was half-considering visiting mircea_popescu for tea one weekend, as he suggested last night
15:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32875 @ 0.00054289 = 17.8475 BTC [-]
15:30 mod6 ya, saw that and was thinking the same
15:30 asciilifeform mod6: actually i admit that ~all of us~ in same room always made me a bit uneasy.
15:30 asciilifeform phat target.
15:30 mircea_popescu yeah, not exactly wise.
15:31 mod6 fair enough.
15:31 asciilifeform various outfits - e.g. intel - forbid it to key folks.
15:31 asciilifeform even usg used to have such a custom.
15:36 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424125 << bee-dog was originally a joke re very summary vision (because bees see large pixels and dogs don't see colors). see : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=24-02-2016#1413916
15:36 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 18:39:43; mod6: i saw beedog coin mentioned earlier, is this just a madeup name for next-coin?
15:36 assbot Logged on 24-02-2016 04:23:11; mircea_popescu: omfg alf sees the world like a bee-dog : in black and white and all pixelated.
15:36 mircea_popescu somehow it became a term of endearment for alf and especially alfisms.
15:37 mod6 ah
15:37 mod6 thx
15:38 mircea_popescu the joke being of course that any serious designer is exactly a bee-dog.
15:39 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12483 @ 0.0005422 = 6.7683 BTC [-] {2}
15:39 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424127 << this would be correct.
15:39 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 18:41:13; mod6: As shitty as all of this is, I think we're in a unique position now to actually resolve all of these issues that have been plaguing us from the beginning.
15:40 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424138 << yeah but learn a good programming.
15:40 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 19:15:25; BingoBoingo: brb gotta learn programmaring so can be of use when prototype emerges from a fever dream
15:45 mircea_popescu anyway, the weather in b-a fixed itself, tis very pleasant, the steaks still here, by all means.
15:46 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo i must confess i don't get the latest qntra. wut ?
15:47 BingoBoingo Entering into the record the end of pretending US minor socialist party is a thing.
15:47 mircea_popescu but i mean.. what shooting ? what ?
15:48 BingoBoingo shooting?
15:48 BingoBoingo Oh 2nd most recent, the san bernadino ISIS derps
15:48 mircea_popescu http://qntra.net/2016/03/frontier-county-prosecutor-alleges-circle-jerk-iphone-carries-cyber-pathogens/
15:48 assbot Frontier County Prosecutor Alleges Circle Jerk iPhone Carries "Cyber Pathogens" | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1YjCjQ7 )
15:49 BingoBoingo mundane case of guy and his wife shooting up their workplace
15:50 mircea_popescu oh
15:50 BingoBoingo Why be another allah snackbar weather event when one has a plague to spread is the point?
15:50 mircea_popescu kinda bizarre.
15:50 BingoBoingo California, bizarre by definition
15:53 BingoBoingo Supposedly they are getting a 100 inches of snow soon. Can't fall into the ocean soon enough
15:58 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423705 << not all can bee-dog like the pros!
15:58 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 13:47:13; nubbins`: but this may be a failing on my part
16:06 mircea_popescu and in other bitcoin news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/17e2293db4434f81bc5aa68d643c8c85/tumblr_mgs749gbFs1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
16:06 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1TC2dzC )
16:19 asciilifeform !s yoga master
16:19 assbot 1 results for 'yoga master' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=yoga+master
16:19 mircea_popescu aha
16:20 asciilifeform 'gotta start small!111'
16:29 nubbins` asciilifeform PM mailing address, probably will cost 0.33 BTC tops to get tees delivered
↖
16:34 punkman https://forum.transmissionbt.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17834
16:34 assbot OSX.KeRanger.A malware in 2.90? - Transmission ... ( http://bit.ly/1TC5AXa )
16:34 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16126 @ 0.00054229 = 8.745 BTC [+]
16:35 punkman http://researchcenter.paloaltonetworks.com/2016/03/new-os-x-ransomware-keranger-infected-transmission-bittorrent-client-installer/
16:35 assbot New OS X Ransomware KeRanger Infected Transmission BitTorrent Client Installer - Palo Alto Networks BlogPalo Alto Networks Blog ... ( http://bit.ly/1TC5HCf )
16:36 nubbins` lule
16:37 nubbins` that's up there with linux mint serving up bogus ISOs
16:38 nubbins` "The KeRanger application was signed with a valid Mac app development certificate; therefore, it was able to bypass Apple’s Gatekeeper protection."
↖ ↖
16:40 nubbins` certificate was from this company: http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapid=47015181
16:40 assbot Polisan Boya San. ve Tic. A.S.: Private Company Information - Businessweek ... ( http://bit.ly/1TC6iUo )
16:41 nubbins` which prob had a developer account for pushing bespoke apps to company handsets
16:53 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424225 << ty nubbins` , will do when i get home
16:53 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 21:29:36; nubbins`: asciilifeform PM mailing address, probably will cost 0.33 BTC tops to get tees delivered
16:54 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424233 << costs all of 100 usd.
16:54 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 21:38:23; nubbins`: "The KeRanger application was signed with a valid Mac app development certificate; therefore, it was able to bypass Apple’s Gatekeeper protection."
17:00 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1423761 << nubbins` will be pleased to learn that this is pet's favourite 'ever' thing from the logz.
17:00 assbot Logged on 06-03-2016 14:06:31; nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/VdqDetk.jpg
17:04 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14599 @ 0.00054221 = 7.9157 BTC [-] {3}
17:14 ben_vulpes http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116719 << sig(digest, pkey). this does nothing for the transacting protocol, but ensures that the device that mined a block /also/ has the privkey for the block subsidy.
17:14 assbot The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TYjVgd )
17:24 nubbins` <+asciilifeform>http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2016#1424233 << costs all of 100 usd. << indeed
17:24 * nubbins` was "ios developer" for short stint, earned a free ipad from sales of app
17:31 nubbins` !up CrazyTruthYakDDS
17:34 nubbins` wow, i've been an ebay member since 1999
17:40 nubbins` https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1142879.msg14088674#msg14088674
17:41 assbot KLYEMAX T-Shirt Fundraiser ... ( http://bit.ly/1RvB2jG )
17:41 nubbins` "really proud of klye for [selling t-shirts calling himself a fuckup in an attempt to recoup blistering losses from an earlier scam]"
17:41 nubbins` fuck this planet
17:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40300 @ 0.0005433 = 21.895 BTC [+] {4}
17:57 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35900 @ 0.00054211 = 19.4617 BTC [-] {4}
18:06 deedbot- [Qntra] Ransomware Comes To OSX Bittorrent Client - http://qntra.net/2016/03/ransomware-comes-to-osx-bittorrent-client/
~ 36 minutes ~
18:42 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11704 @ 0.0005439 = 6.3658 BTC [+] {2}
18:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32608 @ 0.00054531 = 17.7815 BTC [+]
19:04 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84475 @ 0.00054571 = 46.0989 BTC [+] {2}
~ 35 minutes ~
19:40 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40000 @ 0.00054572 = 21.8288 BTC [+]
19:44 thestringpuller "Using 21's bitnodes service, we determined that 1037 classic nodes are hosted using Amazon's AWS. "
19:45 mircea_popescu the two buck bitcoin fork.,
19:45 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/jurov-slime.png < jurov asciilifeform phf and other lisp aficionados.
↖
19:45 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1p0RO2U )
19:45 mircea_popescu check it out - someone is using lisp for something!
19:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40114 @ 0.0005453 = 21.8742 BTC [-] {2}
~ 18 minutes ~
20:12 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42300 @ 0.00054519 = 23.0615 BTC [-]
~ 17 minutes ~
20:30 deedbot- [Trilema] The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement - http://trilema.com/2016/the-greatly-anticipated-bitbet-sbbet-february-2016-statement/
20:32 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00054299 = 22.154 BTC [-] {2}
20:36 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69200 @ 0.0005421 = 37.5133 BTC [-] {4}
20:41 jurov TIL eulora reached homeostasis? LOL
20:48 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-03-2016#1424263 << looks neato
20:48 assbot Logged on 07-03-2016 00:45:43; mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/jurov-slime.png < jurov asciilifeform phf and other lisp aficionados.
20:49 asciilifeform but i have nfi what it does...
20:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28100 @ 0.0005421 = 15.233 BTC [-] {3}
20:54 jurov it sometimes crashes, of course :D
20:55 jurov but in the course of this, i got an idea, is there a small lisp/scheme implemented in ada?
20:55 jurov that would be some bedrock
20:58 jurov because on C mechine, succumbing to various kinds of magic colored pointer unions is practical necessity.. so ada type safety should help
21:03 jurov !up p15
21:14 nubbins` http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47702 << FTR i thought this was obv the case upon reading the article and was baffled as to why it took so long for someone to mention.
21:14 assbot A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1xhvU )
21:17 deedbot- [BitBet Bets Bets] 3.85477620 BTC on 'Yes' - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match - http://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march/#b134
21:22 nubbins` <mircea_popescu> does this come with an absolute guarantee that i am not responsible for anything past raw tx, and if it never gets included, bettor is out the money, because i will not under any circumstances repay it ? << lel better not stick with 0-fee tx if you're gonna go that route.
21:23 nubbins` "bitbet, where payouts are literally the lowest priority"
21:25 nubbins` "bitbet, where we don't have nine cents to spare"
21:25 nubbins` whoever constructed A1 should be relieved of their duties
21:26 danielpbarron fee is not required if inputs are sufficiently old enough, which in this case they appear to have been
21:28 nubbins` sure, if the mempool hadn't been olympic sized
21:28 nubbins` nexus pass is not required if there's no lineup at the airport
21:29 nubbins` still gotta fight through the crowds to get to the gate
21:29 nubbins` if you're traveling on xmas
21:29 danielpbarron i guess this falls into the "well what the heck is the protocol, oh right there isn't one" category. How do you know a miner will choose a high fee tx over a high priority tx?
21:30 nubbins` you know after the fact, it turns out
21:31 jurov cuz satoshi coded it so?
21:31 jurov and miners haven't touched it?
21:31 jurov is that tooo far fetched notion?
21:31 nubbins` if there's only so much space in a block for 0-fee tx's, and the mempool is overflowing, obviously it's gonna take days for your 0-fee tx to get put into a block, even if everyone knows about it
21:32 nubbins` and since it's in the queue, you can make as many As as you like
21:32 nubbins` Aoo, even
21:32 BingoBoingo http://trilema.com/2016/the-greatly-anticipated-bitbet-sbbet-february-2016-statement/#comment-116722
21:32 assbot The greatly anticipated BitBet (S.BBET) February 2016 Statement on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TYAbOv )
21:32 nubbins` all will be discarded because A1 is waiting for the cheap seats
21:37 jurov !t m x.eur
21:37 assbot [MPEX:X.EUR] 1D: 0.00256252 / 0.00259952 / 0.00262899 (553 shares, 1.44 BTC), 7D: 0.00254491 / 0.00259055 / 0.00262899 (1903 shares, 4.93 BTC), 30D: 0.00253517 / 0.00272634 / 0.00332476 (10278 shares, 28.02 BTC)
21:37 nubbins` a 0-fee tx during a mempool flood is like expecting to hitch a free ride from turkey to macedonia
21:38 jurov ;;calc 1/0.00370358
21:38 gribble 270.009018301
21:38 jurov whotf puts these asks on x.eur
21:40 danielpbarron i don't see how a "mempool flood" should effect a high priority transaction.. or was the flooder sophisticated enough to have created all the inputs long ago so that they too would be high priority?
21:40 jurov mkay, flipped. this ersatz marketmaking is quite ejoyable
21:41 nubbins` listen, i'm a high priority customer at Mr. Rooter
21:41 nubbins` but if three other high priority taco lovers clog their toilets first, i'm waiting in line
21:41 jurov <ad break>You could have got x.eur from me with only 2% fee over vwap and flipped them at these insane prices!</ad>
21:42 danielpbarron jurov, how to do that? ask you here?
21:43 jurov i am accepting transferwise
21:43 danielpbarron ah actual euros
21:43 jurov for wot members
21:43 jurov yes, send me 102 euros, get 100 x.eur
21:43 danielpbarron well it's pretty obvious to me what caused the insane prices. "divestment"
21:44 nubbins` or, y'know, a cartel blowing their cover by fucking with bitbet payouts.
21:44 nubbins` SEEMS JUST AS LIKELY.
21:44 danielpbarron not people who want euros, so much as they ~don't want~ bitcoin, and don't want to touch actual fiat
21:44 jurov lmao. but they could have pestered davout to get much better price from his bot instead
21:45 nubbins` i feel bad carrying on but this is seriously the highest lelevator i've ever been in
21:45 nubbins` i cannot see the ground!
21:45 mircea_popescu nubbins`> http://qntra.net/2016/03/a-miner-problem/#comment-47702 << FTR i thought this was obv the case << because it's neither obvious nor the case.
21:45 assbot A Miner Problem | Qntra ... ( http://bit.ly/1p1xhvU )
21:46 nubbins` how ya figure, because the logic doesn't follow
21:46 nubbins` ("you don't get to say what the logic is! &c")
21:46 mircea_popescu but congrats on being the nth lazy thinker who has a simple theory in his head, cut ~80% of the facts or so that fit it, and is ready to reddit about the matter.
21:46 mircea_popescu i'm sure it'll bring greatness to canada or w/e.
21:47 nubbins` you're sniffing glue if you think a cartel withholding bitbet payouts is the simplest explanation
21:48 mircea_popescu nubbins`> all will be discarded because A1 is waiting for the cheap seats << except the part where these nodes would also advertise it, which they didn't do. and except for the part where nodes that keep txn forever are am yth. and except for anything actually to do with reality, as opposed to some cartoon someone saw last year on tedspeak or w/e.
21:48 mircea_popescu nubbins` we had this thread. make your own theory, CROSSING ALL THE POINTS.
21:49 nubbins` advertising 0-fee tx's in a mempool flood is a DOS attack
↖
21:49 mircea_popescu as opposed to "here is what i opine - i know all about huffing glue because, practically speaking, it's what i do all day".
21:49 nubbins` accepting but not advertising them -- isn't
21:49 mircea_popescu w/e.
21:49 nubbins` and nodes don't have to keep tx's "forever", we're talking two days max between rebroadcasts.
21:49 mircea_popescu the facts are there, write your explanation for them and spare me.
21:50 mircea_popescu we're talking about ~8 days.
21:50 nubbins` yes, 4 tx's over 8 days
21:50 nubbins` ;;calc 8/4
21:50 gribble 2
21:50 nubbins` ^
21:50 mircea_popescu so a1 blocked a2, then a2 blocked a3 then a3 blocked a4 ?
21:50 nubbins` haha
21:50 nubbins` jesus
21:50 nubbins` no.
21:50 nubbins` use your reading comprehension skills
21:50 mircea_popescu so a1 blocked a2, 3 and 4 because it sat in pool for 8 days because reasons ?
21:50 nubbins` a1 blocked a2
21:51 nubbins` then a1 blocked a3
21:51 nubbins` then a1 blocked a4
21:51 mircea_popescu because a1 was still around 4 days later ? whyssat ?
21:52 nubbins` because there was a lineup for the cheap seats because of the mempool flood
21:52 mircea_popescu ...
21:52 mircea_popescu that made no sense. try again using meaningful words this time.
21:52 nubbins` no
21:52 nubbins` you try again
21:52 mircea_popescu right.
21:52 nubbins` like talking to a bag of hammers
21:53 mircea_popescu apparently the way the internet works [according to idiots] is that one guy that knows about things by virtue of being one of the guys that actually do things describes some facts, and is now obliged to entertain the half-baked idiocy of any random opiner.
21:53 nubbins` ^ stopped reading after "according"
21:53 mircea_popescu whatever. keep your ideas, i don't want them nor do they carry any value.
21:53 nubbins` do you suppose maybe there were other 0-fee high priority transactions floating around at that time? hmm? check out a graph of the mempool size
21:54 mircea_popescu dude... seriously, stick to printing or w/e it is you understand.
21:54 nubbins` i like how when you run out of logical rebuttals it's all "dude" and "srsly, just w/e"
21:54 nubbins` try another one!
21:55 mircea_popescu there's no "logical rebuttal". you have some facts, go write a theory. maybe i'll bother reading it. seeing who it comes from, probably not. that's all.
21:55 nubbins` "no, you don't get it, MY zero-fee transaction should have taken priority because reasons"
21:56 nubbins` lel, "go write a theory"
21:56 nubbins` sturles wrote it
21:56 nubbins` i tried putting it in simplified english for you, but it didn't take
21:56 nubbins` no big surprise
21:58 nubbins` or, y'know, bitcoin is dead because a chinese mining cartel is selectively blocking BITBET PAYOUTS.
21:58 nubbins` occam weeps
21:58 nubbins` bbl i need a drink
21:59 mircea_popescu sturle's theory fell apart upon examination in chan.
↖ ↖ ↖ ↖ ↖
22:01 mircea_popescu !rate nubbins` -1 more or less shoemaker insistent on derping above the crepidam.
↖
22:01 assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/b8271fc2324071f8
22:01 mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.nubbins`.-1:2f86f1e0d27e296c65d393c3735b6596cc002265d63e3fc387f97968b5b46f24
22:01 assbot Successfully updated the rating for nubbins` from 2 to -1 with note: more or less shoemaker insistent on derping above the crepidam.
22:02 mircea_popescu you'll be on my ignore list. if you actually have something to say find a lord to play telephone, but ideally spare me.
22:05 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33300 @ 0.00054113 = 18.0196 BTC [-] {3}
22:05 jurov that escalated quickly
22:06 mircea_popescu if i wanted to talk to redditards i'd make a reddit account.
22:10 nubbins` lel
22:10 nubbins` behold your king!
22:10 jurov So, w're back to mp and alf being 80% i guess.
22:11 nubbins` sorry guys, anyone who thinks MP's explanation makes more sense needs their head checked at a trauma hospital
22:11 mircea_popescu plenty o' room for idea guys all over the webs.
22:11 nubbins` seems pretty obvious that in a huge backlog of transactions, one of them is going to be the lowest priority
22:12 nubbins` aaaand ftr i meant what i said about being relieved of duties, imagine sending a 17btc tx out into the wild and then /sending the same amount of money again from a different address/
22:12 nubbins` if ever there was an indication that mp stopped giving a fuck about anything but spending the usd he cashed his btc out into, this is it
22:13 nubbins` anyway. peace. asciilifeform feel free to leave your particulars with gribble for me
22:18 mircea_popescu in more practical news - jurov here's one for you. https://bitbet.us/bet/1247/parties-smer-sd-and-sns-to-win-supermajority-in/ is to be resolved. problem is the res source gives vote % and not a word re seats, and the bet is re seats.
↖
22:18 assbot BitBet - Parties SMER-SD and SNS to win supermajority in Slovak parliament :: 0.87 B (38%) on Yes, 1.42 B (62%) on No | closed 3 days 3 hours ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1QweIc2 )
22:19 mircea_popescu is there a good source to document how you convert from these ?
22:19 jurov doh, they are incredibly slow.. there is "allocation of seats" link but they have not done it yet.
22:20 mircea_popescu alrighty. so then it waits.
22:20 mircea_popescu not to even speak of https://bitbet.us/bet/1185/mariano-rajoy-to-remain-pm-of-spain-after/
22:20 assbot BitBet - Mariano Rajoy to remain PM of Spain after December Election :: 0.21 B (78%) on Yes, 0.06 B (22%) on No | closed 2 months 3 weeks ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1QweQIw )
22:20 mircea_popescu believe it or not IN FUCKING MARCH the spanyards do not yet rightly know whether that fucktard won or not the december election.
22:21 * trinque settles in to catch up on a weekend of l0gz
22:22 jurov trinque: prepare several buckets of popcorn
22:23 BingoBoingo and gnashing and wailing, bargaining, depression, and finally acceptance. Also touch of denial mixed in.
~ 25 minutes ~
22:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00054054 = 12.054 BTC [-] {3}
22:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35351 @ 0.00054005 = 19.0913 BTC [-] {4}
22:49 jurov mircea_popescu: to mpex pls
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