Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-04-10 | 2015-04-12 → ↓
00:00 Chillum and you better stop, because it won't for you
00:00 Chillum people are spoiled by elevators that stop at the bottom all by themselves
00:00 Chillum making them all soft
00:01 asciilifeform l0l, looks like me www is under ddos
00:01 asciilifeform so, http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZdeGe4yclnoJ:www.loper-os.org/%3Fp%3D388+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
00:01 assbot Loper OS » Steam Lisp ... ( http://bit.ly/1HdKdUk )
00:04 asciilifeform let's hear it for d3m0cr4cy, where every packet, even from idiots, 'counts', aye ?
00:06 asciilifeform i'll take one guess, that it relates to http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1096078
00:06 assbot Logged on 11-04-2015 00:04:38; asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> ... dude, why so disdainful ? if you don't trust people you don't know on the basis of what they write << because i can see the hallmarks of educated mendacity. the man, whoever he is, knows that i know the history. and pretends otherwise, and that he has some sort of 'lesson' for old ignorant me. i know the type, they infest (or once did) my comments section.
00:06 Chillum asciilifeform: tcp/ip layer or application layer?
00:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 160700 @ 0.0002813 = 45.2049 BTC [+]
00:06 Chillum application layer is my favorite
00:06 asciilifeform Chillum: no idea at present
00:06 Chillum different server fail to different things
00:06 Chillum pause for 5 minutes between the header name and header value works for a lot
00:06 asciilifeform not paying enough for this info to be readily available to the naked eye.
00:06 Chillum then forget about the connection on your side and open another
00:07 Chillum another trick is to send 1 byte every second to keep the connection open
00:07 Chillum very hard to mitigate short of load balancing
00:07 asciilifeform Chillum: we all read 'spam like a pro in 21 days' (TM)
00:07 mircea_popescu malcom gladwell ?
00:07 asciilifeform aha
00:07 Chillum what does ddos have to do with spamming? I have not read that
00:08 mircea_popescu !up Armand
00:08 asciilifeform Chillum: mythical book, which i imagined, telling the 'secrets' of 'k00l d00dz' the world around.
00:08 Guest64542 Mr. Popescu: Is your website offline? Or overloaded?
00:08 decimation asciilifeform: lol why ddos you?
00:08 Chillum there are tools, but the servers are patched for the tools
00:09 Chillum it is about fiddling around with custom scripts
00:09 decimation works for me
00:09 asciilifeform decimation: why ddos anything
00:09 Chillum there are so many ways to fuck with a web server that they can't get them all
00:09 Chillum you just have to do something original
00:09 decimation ;;isitdown loper-os.org
00:09 gribble loper-os.org is up
00:09 Chillum which is hard but not that hard
00:09 mircea_popescu Guest64542 nah, inept dc caved over a fraudulent dmca notice. will be skinning them for it, next week.
00:09 Chillum that is the difference between a script kiddie and someone who is actually doing stuff
00:10 Guest64542 do you expect the site to be back up soon?
00:10 mircea_popescu yeah prolly by tomorrow.
00:10 Chillum the nice thing about application layer DDOS is that it does not require significant bandwidth and can work with high latency
00:11 mircea_popescu and i guess ima hammer the shit out of fetlife now, anyway.
00:11 Chillum which means you can do it through tor
00:11 Chillum it is the smart subtle ddos that can run from a raspberry pi on a dail-up
00:11 decimation Chillum: but who would give a fuck about your hammering?
00:11 Chillum spammers
00:11 Chillum shut down the website they are advertising
00:11 asciilifeform Chillum: why use a proxy net that has canonical exit ip list for any sysadmin with half a brain to add to drop list ?
00:12 Chillum half a brain is the key point
00:12 decimation maybe they have an alternative position on jovian science
00:12 Chillum they don't
00:12 Chillum if they do have an alternative position on jovian science they will have to go through me to get it told!
00:12 mircea_popescu "[W]hen a writer’s education on a topic consists in interviewing an expert, he is apt to offer generalizations that are banal, obtuse or flat wrong." << in romanian this is known as "a waiter at one of these places where university professors gather can actually soak up a lot, often enough to pass himself for one"
00:13 Chillum (kidding, I try to be very neutral on wikipedia)
00:13 mircea_popescu or something like that.
00:13 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this actually is a two-layered shit sandwich
00:13 Guest64542 Mr. P: what's that all about with FetLife anyway?
00:13 asciilifeform pinker was covering, making excuses for gladwell's lack of even the most elementary education or curiosity
00:13 Chillum when writing a tertiary source like an encyclopedia one must rely on experts only, original research is forbidden. It is meant to document the information that already exists without adding opinion
00:14 Chillum original research is of course great, but out of the scope of an encyclopedia
00:14 mircea_popescu Guest64542 derps ennumerated their db rather than hashing it.
00:14 Chillum we get experts all the time and we have to tell them that they can only use what they know if they have sources
00:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i noticed. ridiculous.
00:14 decimation moldbug would say that pinker would gladly suck the cock of a nyt writer so he can be published in the 'grey lady'
00:14 mircea_popescu presenting rank ignorance as, rather than humiliatory, a sort of "problem". it's no problem.
00:15 Guest64542 so you just scraped the data? I don't see what the big deal is
00:15 mircea_popescu Chillum everything even remotely worth reading is out of the scope of a wikipedia.
00:15 asciilifeform Guest19244: see also the case of weev.
00:15 mircea_popescu also, every encyclopedia consists of original research of its editors
00:15 mircea_popescu which is what the term means.
00:15 Chillum First we stored the password and that was stupid, then we hashed it but people could build rainbow tables so we added salt, then things got faster. Now we harden by hashing many times
00:16 mircea_popescu Guest64542 internet is large, and mostly inhabited by the clueless.
00:16 Chillum mircea_popescu: it is nothing more than a starting point for understanding
00:16 mircea_popescu it's a starting point for misunderstanding, which wouldn't be a big deal
00:16 Chillum any serious academic knows an encyclopedia is not a reliable source and is just a tool for laymen to get a basic understanding of a subject
00:16 mircea_popescu but it packages it with a very dangerous false sense of competence.
00:17 Chillum if you think an encyclopedia is more you are sure to be disapointed
00:17 mircea_popescu no, iut's a tool for laymen to bolt down their ignorance in such a way that they'll never ever become good, at anything.
00:17 * asciilifeform goes to dig for the trilema summarizing mircea_popescu's conference-ii speech re: this, but remembers that his www is down
00:17 mircea_popescu i happen to know what things are, having had the good fortune to exist before wikipedia did.
00:17 Chillum tools are tools, people can use them right or bolt themselves to the floor
00:17 Chillum not the tool's fault
00:17 mircea_popescu this is not a tool.
00:17 mircea_popescu a tool is something that does something useful.
00:17 Chillum give a fool a hammer and a nail and they will stick their ear to the floor
00:17 asciilifeform Chillum: know the difference between a tool and a boobytrap
00:17 asciilifeform which is also a kind of tool
00:17 mircea_popescu this is a rube goldberg cube. entertaining, for us. wasteful, for the random derp/.
00:17 asciilifeform but not for the 'user'
00:18 Chillum I know a boob using a tool wrong
00:18 asciilifeform the correct way to 'use' an antipersonnel mine...
00:18 asciilifeform is to bury it and walk away
00:18 Chillum really if you don't know how much confidence to give a given data source then that is a failure to comprehend
00:18 asciilifeform not sing, dance on it.
00:18 decimation your www is up for me ascii
00:18 Guest64542 Mr P: I don't understand why you are picking a fight with them
00:18 mircea_popescu you seriously believe that if you split up the value wikipedia added to human society over the years, in "making experts laugh" and "everything else", the 2nd bit would be anything even remotely comparable to the 1st ?
00:18 Chillum Wikipedia says clearly it is not a reliable source and it never pretends to be
00:18 mircea_popescu im not sure it's even 1%
00:18 asciilifeform decimation: up/down, variably
00:19 mircea_popescu Guest64542 actually, they are picking a fight with me. i generally end fights.
00:19 Chillum it is all we can do to keep the pages from just saying "U R GAY LOLOLOLO)(!"
00:19 mircea_popescu i honestly believe ed is actually a better wiki than wikipedia.
00:19 Chillum from chaos great things emerge
00:19 mircea_popescu or was. is it still online ?
00:19 Guest64542 OK. But how did the conflict get started? Why are you interested in their DB?
00:19 Chillum ed?
00:19 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: e2 ?
00:19 decimation Chillum: precisely, so how do 'you' spare the cycles to prevent the more insideous defacement?
00:20 Chillum erectile dysfunction?
00:20 decimation encyclopedia dramatica
00:20 asciilifeform ah
00:20 * asciilifeform prefers lurkmore.to
00:20 mircea_popescu Guest64542 i ended up making a profile at some point. read some "build from the ground up with security in mind" verbiage from the baku character, sounded exactly like the bitcoin scammer broken record.
00:20 mircea_popescu then i saw the horror.
00:20 mircea_popescu thing looks like it was coded by armandi character.
00:20 Chillum decimation: I have a javascript snipet that shows me pages in the "attack page" category. Every so often someone makes a page describing what a fag some other person is and an editor markes it as an attack page
00:20 mircea_popescu decimation has it
00:21 Chillum I delete it and usually block the person who made it
00:21 menahem sorry to interrupt, is trilema down for you ?
00:21 Chillum unless they can provide a reliable source to back it up
00:21 mircea_popescu menahem yes yes discussed above. come back tomorro!
00:21 menahem lol kk thank you. :)
00:21 mircea_popescu np np
00:22 mircea_popescu asciilifeform what's lurkmore.to
00:22 asciilifeform !s lurkmore
00:22 assbot 11 results for 'lurkmore' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lurkmore
00:22 asciilifeform ^ it
00:22 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-09-2014#847860
00:22 assbot Logged on 27-09-2014 15:41:18; dignork: mircea_popescu: on a concept level lurkmore is a copy of encyclopedia dramatica, but they do much better job imho
00:22 mircea_popescu oh russki thing. yea
00:23 Guest64542 so is your objective to point out flaws in the website? or something else? what are you trying to accomplish?
00:23 mircea_popescu im not trying to accomplish anything. hm... what exactly is your interest in this thing ?
00:24 mircea_popescu !s Ittay Eyal
00:24 assbot 0 results for 'Ittay Eyal' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=+Ittay+Eyal
00:24 mircea_popescu heh.
00:24 Guest64542 I have a profile at FetLife, and I have seen a rather lively debate there about this. But I haven't formed an opinion yet. I thought it would be interesting to talk directly with you about instead of relying on a lot of chatter
00:25 asciilifeform Guest19244: in the seek00r1ty business, there is a concept called 'full disclosure'
00:25 mircea_popescu Guest64542 so you're entirely foreign to the bitcoin space, then ?
00:25 mircea_popescu no idea who i am, what trilema is, anything ?
00:25 asciilifeform which boils down to: imagine there is a derelict house occupied by alcoholic bomzhes. the city condemned it, but the occupants refuse to leave.
00:25 asciilifeform they even persist in bringing friends over.
00:26 asciilifeform so after umpteen many warnings, the king's men roust all the bums that can be rousted, and dynamite the place.
00:26 Guest64542 I know what bitcoin is. I have not actually used it. Before logging into this IRC, I read a little bit about who you are. So I have some idea
00:27 mircea_popescu aite. so basically, i saw something, said something. fetlife misjudged itself, and sent a spurious "trademark infringement" claim to the dc.
00:27 mircea_popescu i pointed out to the dc that if it abuses dmca notice process in this way it'll end up liable, and linked them to caselaw.
00:27 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: l0l, not even copyrasty ?!
00:27 mircea_popescu some dude claiming to be "from fetlife" made a proper dmca notification, which i counter-notified
00:28 mircea_popescu waited ten days, reinstated the content, forgot all about it.
00:28 mircea_popescu this was... i dunno, weeks ago.
00:28 Guest64542 before your site went offline, I did have a chance to read the DMCA takedown notice and your response
00:28 decimation i can see how the dc is in a tough spot
00:28 mircea_popescu today the dc nulled that ip, which brings them into liability over the matter, as the complaint is clearly spurious,
00:28 mircea_popescu and so ima sue them for all they got and move the blog.
00:28 mircea_popescu bout it.
00:28 mircea_popescu once it's back, im also going to dump the whole db,
00:29 mircea_popescu as a warning for later muppets on the score of "fuck with people you don't know"
00:29 mircea_popescu internet brigading is a great way to deal with nobodies, but you run the risk of stepping on the tail of someone who is actually powerful, on occasion, at which point the whole thing backfires.
00:29 Guest64542 I'm not an expert on DMCA, but I do kind of get the idea that all you did was post links to the profiles, and I don't see how that would be a copyright violation
00:29 mircea_popescu i think this roughly brings us to date.
00:30 mircea_popescu wait until you read into the statutory damages for dmca fraud.
00:30 * asciilifeform knows of no serious cases of such damages having been imposed, but - ianal!
00:31 Chillum The study of security is interesting, but the study of insecurity is fascinating.
00:31 mircea_popescu asciilifeform $100k. remember the bezzleword ?
00:31 mircea_popescu this is a federal statute.
00:31 asciilifeform yes but has anyone lost and paid it ?
00:31 mircea_popescu well, dc kinda has trouble running away.
00:31 asciilifeform or is dmca precisely what it appears to be - a bludgeon for riaa/mpaa to use, and anything else is incidental noise.
00:32 mircea_popescu oh, i'm not suing some bankruipt derps in canada, who cares about them.
00:32 mircea_popescu asciilifeform dmca is EXACTLY and specifically drawn so large players can squash annoyances, but also minor players trying to do the same get totally raped.
00:32 asciilifeform 'large' in the buffett, usg-large sense
00:32 mircea_popescu if you have any experience with contemporary us law, this should be a familiar pattern
00:32 mircea_popescu quite.
00:32 asciilifeform is my (admittedly surface) understanding
00:34 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i predict that the case will hinge on whether 'fetlife' is a tendril of usg in good standing
00:34 mircea_popescu anyway, it's a sad state of affairs for actual providers. they're stuck in the middle. can't really pay good lawyers, can't really exactly judge when customer is going to turn around and bitchslap them with a ten ton hammer...
00:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i don't intend to pursue some dubious "start-up" in canada on the strength of the declarations of some otherwise proven liar / confused internet person.
00:34 asciilifeform (it is probably not enough for tendril status, to merely be in the mythical 'guild of all sc4mz0rs')
00:34 mircea_popescu there is such a thing as joint and several liability. let the dc sue them.
00:35 asciilifeform i have yet to hear of a dc being nailed for yanking the machine of a victim of copyrasty
00:35 Chillum severed?
00:35 Guest64542 Mr. P: Forgive my ignorace, but who is DC? Are you referring to the provider that hosts your site? Or some sort of third-party abritraitor? And what do you mean by "tendril of USG"?
00:35 mircea_popescu Guest64542 the datacenter, yes.
00:35 decimation heh
00:36 mircea_popescu and i didn't use that term. he did.
00:36 decimation yeah asciilifeform, what do you mean "tendril of usg"
00:36 mircea_popescu yeah asciilifeform !
00:36 decimation heh
00:36 Guest64542 ok sorry I wasn't looking at the user ID
00:36 asciilifeform decimation: what i meant was: a lawsuit in an american court is won or lost at the pleasure of usg.
00:36 Chillum do irc client reveal what type they are like web browser's user agent?
00:37 * Chillum should read the IRC protocol RFC
00:37 decimation mircea_popescu: couldn't the dc simply claim that you were violating their tos?
00:37 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=13f9814f-b56e-4314-8e1b-95215ce60a6d
00:37 assbot Using a DMCA takedown notice to assert a trademark claim may lead to section 512(f) liability - Lexology ... ( http://bit.ly/1Duf0ed )
00:37 asciilifeform as in the 'nuclear iran' case recently - can even be magicked away without explanation.
00:37 mircea_popescu enjoy.
00:37 mircea_popescu Chillum depends how you set yours up, i guess.
00:37 mircea_popescu some answer to ver ctcp messages.
00:37 Guest64542 what does usg stand for?
00:37 mircea_popescu united states government
00:37 Chillum huh. One would think it is either part of the protocol or not
00:37 Guest64542 ok
00:37 mircea_popescu Chillum the irc is an old beast chills.
00:37 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'refused to dismiss counter-claim.' but how did the case end?
00:38 * asciilifeform doesn't know
00:38 * Chillum should REALLY read the IRC protocol RFC
00:38 Chillum mircea_popescu: I know I was using it before the web
00:38 mircea_popescu generally these end in settlements, to avoid the ever balooning costs.
00:38 Chillum just never learned the protocol under the client
00:38 mircea_popescu !up Guest64542
00:38 Chillum mircea_popescu: "chills" is what they called me in high school
00:39 Chillum I was very relaxed
00:39 mircea_popescu cool.
00:39 Chillum weed
00:39 decimation asciilifeform: yeah I suspect that anyone who has standing to assert section 512(f) probably will get a settlement
00:39 * Chillum is grooving the Thelonious Monk's - Monk's Dream with a puff of smoke
00:39 mircea_popescu decimation the dc could claim absolutely anything they wish. the standard still is preponderence of evidence.
00:39 * asciilifeform assumed 'chilam', the traditional smoking instrument
00:39 Chillum yup
00:39 Chillum that is right
00:40 Chillum the high school nickname is a coincidence
00:40 Guest64542 Mr. P: is it possible that scraping data is a violation of FetLife's TOU?
00:40 Chillum used to go by HighInBC
00:40 mircea_popescu the dmca does not provide for an avenue to enforce anything you wish.
00:40 mircea_popescu misusing it in this manner is a misdemeanor, and more importantly, a path to civil liability.
00:40 decimation mircea_popescu: true, but I suspect that the dc could 'find you violating' without asserting anything w.r.t. dcma claims
00:41 mircea_popescu they already did.
00:41 decimation but that would be something for a judge to sort out I suppose
00:41 mircea_popescu exactly.
00:41 Guest64542 ok I get that. DMCA is not the proper mechanism for enforcement
00:41 mircea_popescu "uh... we just ... didn't wanna do it anymore your honor." "shut up. sit down. "
00:41 Chillum DMCA make a lot of things illegal but does not provide an easy path to conviction
00:41 mircea_popescu conviction ?
00:42 Chillum a toothless old lady shrieking at people
00:42 mircea_popescu im not about to put anyone in prison. this is about money Chillum .
00:42 decimation Chillum: it's a civil claim
00:42 Chillum oh
00:42 Chillum then I am talking about the wrong part of DMCA
00:42 decimation mircea_popescu is performing a service for folks too poor to afford a lawyer
00:42 mircea_popescu essentially.
00:43 mircea_popescu what started as a service for folks too simple to understand why they do not wish to be /user/1004555
00:43 mircea_popescu turned into a service for folks too poor to afford a lawyer.
00:43 asciilifeform !b 4
00:43 assbot Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0KA8PKP.txt )
00:43 Chillum is this like that guy who used a college network to download shitloads of public domain but held by private companies court records?
00:43 mircea_popescu but seriously, they're total fucking idiots. i even had a lengthy comment explaining to the derp in charge how to salt and hash
00:43 decimation the CrossFit thing is hilarious too. it's the latest fad amoung youth
00:43 asciilifeform Chillum: yeah. they hanged him
00:44 Chillum it is amazing how much information not encumbered by copyright is held for ransom by private companies
00:44 assbot AMAZING COMPANY!
00:44 asciilifeform danced the hempen jig, he did.
00:44 mircea_popescu Chillum notrly, no.
00:44 Chillum I am looking at you JSTORE!
00:45 Chillum mircea_popescu: as usual the conversations here require context that takes time to learn
00:45 mircea_popescu myeah.
00:45 Chillum part of what makes this channel intersting
00:45 Chillum at first I stayed for the spectacle, after that for the intrigue
00:46 menahem also the reason why I stfu until I know backstories from trilema.
00:46 Chillum like a movie by some twisted director that keeps you watching in abject confusion/horror
00:46 mircea_popescu lol menahem
00:46 menahem :)
00:47 decimation crossfit is the 1920's 'strong man' circus act, reinvented for today's youth
00:47 decimation which is why claims to originality are doubly amusing
00:48 mircea_popescu but seriously, you're all tech savvy people. who the fuck claims to have, you know, "built the site with security in mind" then makes the db trivially iterable because couldn't be bothered to hash the anything ? would something like user/F2xWjk been so very hard ?
00:48 mircea_popescu gotta absolutely have /10001 so the next one is /10002 ?
00:48 mircea_popescu nuts, i tell you.
00:48 Guest64542 Mr P: Sounds like your real dipute at this point is with the dc
00:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it is a more or less plain case of 'i have the right to wear this rape dress'
00:49 mircea_popescu Guest64542 as far as i'm concerned, there's a crowd of silly people somewhere on the web that tricked a dc into bankruptcy. yes.
00:49 asciilifeform 'why -should- we have to be solid. the world should not contain pointy things'
00:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform well...
00:50 mircea_popescu i like a challenge as much as the next fellow, i guess.
00:51 * asciilifeform was kinda surprised, he admits, to learn that mircea_popescu even hosts in a part of the world which even pretends to honour dmca etc.
00:51 mircea_popescu why not ?
00:51 asciilifeform because annoying idiots ?
00:51 mircea_popescu i also like free money as much as the next fellow
00:52 asciilifeform exploding hard disks ?
00:52 mircea_popescu uh... i'm not particularly annoyed ?
00:52 mircea_popescu yeah well.
00:52 mircea_popescu i still dunno that's related.
00:53 mircea_popescu asciilifeform anyway, i guess this makes me the first of that evil species of barristish sticklers that you all love to hate that you ever met.
00:53 * asciilifeform wonders how many readers purchased a spot welder after hearing of this
00:53 asciilifeform (the drives, that is)
00:53 Guest64542 Mr P: Thank you for sharing your perspective on this
00:54 mircea_popescu Guest64542 you know about the log ?
↖
00:54 Guest64542 Mr P ummm I am not sure what you are talking about LOL
00:54 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097182
00:54 assbot Logged on 11-04-2015 04:54:00; mircea_popescu: Guest64542 you know about the log ?
00:55 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: we - or at least i - knew that you're fond of courtroom challenge. but i can't help but also remember the various folk who tried this in ussr.
00:55 mircea_popescu ussr wasn't built on the bezzle tho.
00:55 asciilifeform where - not everyone now remembers, but - believe or not, there were also courts and jurists.
00:55 decimation re: the gray journal: vintage moldbug > "Of course, they can't do much. You can't submit to the gray journal. There is no formal review process. You simply have to know someone who knows someone who... and who is on the end of this chain? Five or ten very ordinary people, with no particular expertise in anything, perhaps a BA in some science or other. Who happen to have gotten themselves assigned, through whatever feat of
00:55 decimation bureaucratic mastery, to the "science beat" at the Times."
00:55 mircea_popescu asciilifeform remember the power of the "people's denouncing" in there ? that's the equivalent.
00:55 Guest64542 ok I see that there is a record of our conversation
00:56 asciilifeform aha
00:56 mircea_popescu god fucking help you if i stand up in the "political meeting" and ask you about X.
00:56 mircea_popescu Guest64542 since you use the web platform andso prolly don't have a local log.
00:56 decimation I thought that the 'political meeting' was for the party to tell people what to think, not vice versa
00:56 mircea_popescu decimation you'd be surprised.
00:56 asciilifeform decimation: enforcement of norms is always - in practice - 'peer to peer'
00:57 asciilifeform nothing else even begins to scale.
00:57 mircea_popescu decimation the problem with a "democracy", aka representative democracy aka people's soviet is that the victory is always to the fearless.
00:57 mircea_popescu feudalism empowers he with most knights, the rest - he wight less concern.
00:58 decimation I suppose the only 'norm' that moscow really cared about was 'nominal submission to moscow'
00:58 asciilifeform decimation: nah. that'd be, e.g., the khanate.
00:58 mircea_popescu not exactly. more important in practice - the need to cut the grass.
00:58 mircea_popescu lest it gets too tall.
00:58 asciilifeform ^
00:58 decimation ah I see
00:58 mircea_popescu and so a position "of power" was a terrible curse no one wanted.
00:58 asciilifeform chingis khan, yes, he only cares that you submit & pay tribute.
00:58 mircea_popescu which is how the thing actually failed.
00:59 decimation one sees exactly the same phenomenon in usg today
00:59 mircea_popescu quite.
00:59 asciilifeform modern mega-state - micromanages.
00:59 asciilifeform aka 'playing civ-1'
00:59 mircea_popescu they even use the same word - "responsibility"
00:59 mircea_popescu soon the same old jokes from the 70s are going to begin to circulate once more.
00:59 mircea_popescu "promotion = much more responsibility, not much more money" etc.
00:59 asciilifeform 'nah, we're out of meat. fish is what they lack at the fish monger's.'
01:00 mircea_popescu lol
01:00 mircea_popescu you know that still has me chuckling ?
01:00 decimation and 'responsibility' means 'yer ass is on the line now', not 'you can choose to do as you wish'
01:00 mircea_popescu decimation it means, "try and leech as much as you can off the young and impressionable females before a determined and disinterested young male gores you."
01:01 mircea_popescu rather sad state. of affairs.
01:01 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i had an eerily 'sovok' experience the other day. went to a shop that sold, among other items, wooden planks. needed one sawed to fit in car. waited for whole hour, while clerk after clerk inquired, where, where is the one and only man authorized to use saw (kept under lock and key)
01:01 asciilifeform he was nowhere
01:01 mircea_popescu drunk, no doubt, out of existential crisis.
01:01 decimation ^ note that the hippies in the 60's were the 'young male', and now they are trying to 'maintain responsibility'
01:02 decimation asciilifeform: was it a home depot? I've had exactly the same experience
01:02 asciilifeform it was.
01:02 mircea_popescu decimation this is an angle alf does not wish to see (deliberate engineer's blindness), but in fact compare the afore-mentioned weev with the unfortunate da prosecuting. is weev a lazy bum ? yes. did the poor da work butt off through law scool ? yes. still not paid debt ? yes.
01:02 mircea_popescu conviction overturned. is da fucked ? yes. is weev feasting on his corpse ? yes.
01:03 mircea_popescu pay a lot to gain very little vs pay nothing to gain whatever you take for yourself. hmm....
01:03 asciilifeform occasionally, ant kills elephant.
01:03 mircea_popescu welll... let's hope you're patriotic.
01:03 asciilifeform but does the smart money bet on ant ?
01:03 mircea_popescu asciilifeform in the soviets ? ALWAYS.
01:03 mircea_popescu elephant is not allowed to move.
01:03 mircea_popescu ant wins every time it cares.
01:03 mircea_popescu to*
01:04 mircea_popescu the problems the social security system has are not limited to the social security system. they are endemic, and that because they are systematic.
01:04 asciilifeform i take elephant's retort, 'i did not care to crush the ant', seriously -while elephant remains alive-.
01:05 mircea_popescu asciilifeform ask someone whom you know in the civil service what does an overturned conviction do.
01:05 mircea_popescu or ask them what % they must maintain.
01:05 mircea_popescu or whatever, ask about how the job sucks.
01:05 * asciilifeform knows
01:05 mircea_popescu so then... alive ? yeahok.
01:05 asciilifeform even in the godforsaken patent office
01:05 decimation I'm not sure said da really profits by keeping his job
01:05 asciilifeform overturned patent - not so good.
01:05 mircea_popescu decimation if i was sure, i'd recommend it to bright young things.
01:05 mircea_popescu but i don't.
01:06 mircea_popescu it's a rather precarious existence.
01:06 decimation how does getting $60k salary with $200k in college debt 'make sense'
01:06 mircea_popescu 60k salary as long as you know, 65k expended.
01:06 asciilifeform how does 60k with 200k house debt make sense
01:06 asciilifeform how does all debt peonage 'make sense.'
01:07 mircea_popescu asciilifeform "but you own the house"
01:07 asciilifeform you 'own the sheepskin' also.
01:07 mircea_popescu same way you "own" the da office.
01:07 mircea_popescu see, medieval kings were a lot more honest.
01:07 asciilifeform simony.
01:07 mircea_popescu da actually did own his office.
01:07 decimation 'but it's the people's office'
01:07 decimation well, moldbug would say that the improvement was that there was an actual human the da 'was responsible' to
01:07 mircea_popescu never.
01:08 mircea_popescu what king do you think ever talked to the baillifs ?!
01:08 decimation not king, but his wot
01:08 mircea_popescu they didn't even speak a mutually comprehensible idiom.
01:08 mircea_popescu heh.
01:08 decimation lord/duke/baron whoever knows the score, king trusts him to keep a handle on things
01:09 * asciilifeform tries to recall mircea_popescu's post re: how modern notion of 'chain of command' applied to medieval structures is simplistic; remembers that www is down
01:09 menahem :(
01:09 mircea_popescu incredible how useful trilema actually is huh.
01:09 mircea_popescu sorry bout that.
01:09 menahem big tyme
01:10 menahem no apologies needed. site is pure gold.
01:10 decimation well, my understanding is that in early english monarchy that the king was more of a 'first amoung equals' rather than 'strict commander'
01:10 mircea_popescu pre normans, this ?
01:10 decimation yeah
01:10 mircea_popescu it's all poppycock. they didn't even keep records.
01:10 mircea_popescu the later imperially-ambitious english retconned a bunch of shit into their record
01:10 mircea_popescu so victoria isn't inferior to wilhelm.
01:10 decimation heh they had a quilt somewhere
01:11 mircea_popescu (british-german rivalry goes back a long time. as long as there was a germany, really.)
01:12 * menahem wonders if we could get a quick lesson on modern chains of command compared to medieval structures ?
01:13 mircea_popescu "In fact if an attacker waits until he sees another block on the network, the attacker can be sure that a majority of hashpower is now working on successors to that already published block, and not the one the attacker has kept hidden. The result is not a toss-up, but a distinct advantage to the honest nodes who have published their blocks already. "
01:13 mircea_popescu this is a rather valid point.
01:13 mircea_popescu that "instantly" is rather iffy.
01:15 mircea_popescu ;;later tell funkstein_ not bad.
01:15 gribble The operation succeeded.
01:17 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: not mystery
01:18 * asciilifeform head-desks over the kind of things which might constitute 'revelation' to folks who used bitcoin without looking into how it worked
01:18 decimation this goes to the thread re: how to distinguish 'trusted nodes'
01:18 decimation it strikes me that it would be desirable to operate a node under a 'wot signature'
01:18 asciilifeform decimation: once you are even speaking of 'trusted nodes' something went horribly wrong
01:19 asciilifeform the original conversation, iirc, was about usg sibyls
01:19 asciilifeform decimation: operate a node under a 'wot signature' << ultimately ip-over-gossip yes
01:26 mircea_popescu alf has it. the notion of "good node" is akin to the notion of "clean bitcoin"
01:26 * asciilifeform sometimes wonders what hanbot does these days instead of working over the old tardphorum with a plasma gun as in the old days.
01:26 mircea_popescu if you think in these terms you're either in an alt-universe where bitcoin can not exist, or you have woefully misunderstood the present one.
01:26 asciilifeform 'clean electricity'
01:26 mircea_popescu well, that exists.
01:27 mircea_popescu POSITIVE electricity tho...
01:27 * asciilifeform pictures flowing positrons
01:27 mircea_popescu nono, not in that sense.
01:27 decimation but the electric company has no way to much delay the flow of electrons to your house
01:27 mircea_popescu SQUARE ELECTRON-CITY
01:28 asciilifeform decimation: seekreet d4rk kn0wl3dg3: electrons don't move all that much.
01:28 mircea_popescu "perpetually even coordinate electron-icity"
01:28 decimation asciilifeform: aye
01:28 asciilifeform but this is like, 1870s state of art
01:28 asciilifeform we're not there yet.
01:36 mircea_popescu http://daddyslittlewankbait.tumblr.com/post/102596211799/she-was-a-dumb-bitch-who-just-wanted-to-make-her ru pronz ?
01:36 assbot She was a dumb bitch who just wanted to make her... | Teen Wankbait ... ( http://bit.ly/1z58Z28 )
01:45 Chillum mircea_popescu: I found this: http://tim.jagenberg.info/2015/01/18/low-power-esp8266/ the sleep mode power consumption is 78 microamps and it can wake up and transmit packets in < 2ms
01:45 assbot Low Power ESP8266 – Sleeping at 78 micro Amps | tim.jagenberg.info ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5adKT )
01:45 Chillum if you designed your application right it could sleep the vast majority of the time
01:46 Chillum with wake-up times that fast it can sleep over 99% of the time and scan every few seconds
01:47 Chillum The gps chip I have can operate itself at 50ma and communicate on demand to the ESP8266
01:47 Chillum 2 AA at that level of draw will last near a week
01:48 Chillum both use 3.3v
01:48 Chillum aw crap just dumped an ashtary on my keyboard and naken body
01:48 Chillum s/naken/naked/
01:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130300 @ 0.00028083 = 36.5921 BTC [-] {2}
01:49 menahem that is the last thing i wanna picture. going back to the link mircea posted..
01:50 Chillum I look grey but I am not!
01:50 Chillum it is ashes!
01:51 Chillum FYI I am always naked when on IRC
01:51 menahem lol wtf.
01:51 mats ;;gettrust Chillum
01:51 gribble Currently authenticated from hostmask Chillum!~highinbc@wikipedia/Chillum. Trust relationship from user mats to user Chillum: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mats&dest=Chillum | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Chillum | Rated since: Thu Feb 26 23:32:23 2015
01:52 Chillum you wanna do business mats?
01:52 Chillum you got any gold?
01:52 mats im about to neg rate you if this spam keeps up
↖
01:53 Chillum okay well try talking to me first
01:53 mats we just did.
01:53 Chillum Okay buddy
01:54 mircea_popescu chillum it is an impressive little thing.
01:54 mircea_popescu <Chillum> aw crap just dumped an ashtary on my keyboard and naken body << proof wikipedia is a nudist colony.
01:55 mats have a nice day
01:56 mircea_popescu anyways. tomorrow!
01:56 menahem likewise, ciao!
~ 25 minutes ~
02:21 gabriel_laddel !rate mats 1 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-04-2015#1091700 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097334
02:21 assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/691eaa1ffd3b556f
02:21 assbot Logged on 08-04-2015 02:25:15; mircea_popescu: !rate mats 1 Lotta paralegal work on http://trilema.com/2013/so-whos-running-the-courts-circus/
02:21 assbot Logged on 11-04-2015 05:52:49; mats: im about to neg rate you if this spam keeps up
02:25 gabriel_laddel !v assbot:gabriel_laddel.rate.mats.1:af274b559672ad59e75e9980aa8d67558cdb50339e2cab5747d1fcc90c50c0bd
02:25 assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for mats with note: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-04-2015#1091700 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097334
02:29 gabriel_laddel !up menahem
02:30 menahem off to bed.. wanted to say: with no trilema, it feels like the net is down. dunno where to surf.
02:31 gabriel_laddel menahem: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/
02:31 assbot The Last Psychiatrist ... ( http://bit.ly/1FJvzSU )
02:31 gabriel_laddel menahem: http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/pseudosc/whyantiint.htm http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/hbaker/hakmem/hakmem.html
02:31 assbot Why is there Anti-Intellectualism? ... ( http://bit.ly/1FJvAX9 )
02:31 assbot HAKMEM -- CONTENTS -- DRAFT, NOT YET PROOFED ... ( http://bit.ly/1FJvDSD )
02:32 gabriel_laddel http://jmc.stanford.edu/articles/neutrinos.html
02:32 assbot Neutrinos ... ( http://bit.ly/1FJvC13 )
02:32 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 138450 @ 0.00029365 = 40.6558 BTC [+]
02:33 menahem szick, thanks!
02:38 * menahem realizes you've given him some great fuel. gracias & night.
~ 21 minutes ~
03:00 mats http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-04-2015#1094268 << so much fraud. like claiming credit for the Rule 110 proof of Turing completeness.
03:00 assbot Logged on 09-04-2015 21:25:19; ascii_field: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20141104/NEWS04/141109944/mathematicas-wolfram-sued-accused-of-secretly-recording-calls << l0l! apparently he's still sc4mz0r1ng folks
~ 25 minutes ~
03:25 gabriel_laddel !up Vexual
03:26 gabriel_laddel !up hktud0
03:26 gabriel_laddel !up joecool
03:26 gabriel_laddel !up CheckDavid
03:26 Vexual hey
03:34 Vexual alf: electrons that don't all move much
03:34 Vexual has anyone actually found a pencil small enough to mark one?
03:34 gabriel_laddel !down Vexual
03:37 joecool gabriel_laddel: bored?
03:37 gabriel_laddel joecool: story of my life.
03:37 gabriel_laddel !s so sick of asciminerism I can't even begin to tell all
03:37 assbot 0 results for 'so sick of asciminerism I can't even begin to tell all' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=so+sick+of+asciminerism+I+can%27t+even+begin+to+tell+all
03:38 gabriel_laddel http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=so+sick+of+I+can%27t+even+begin+to+tell+all
03:38 assbot 1 results for 'so sick of I can't even begin to tell all' - #bitcoin-assets search
03:38 gabriel_laddel http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-12-2014#948253
03:38 assbot Logged on 08-12-2014 15:50:58; mircea_popescu: im so fucking sick of asicminerism i can't even begin to tell it all.
03:38 gabriel_laddel /s/asicminerism/earth
~ 55 minutes ~
04:34 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105700 @ 0.0002942 = 31.0969 BTC [+] {3}
04:35 gabriel_laddel #bitcoin-assets distro update:
04:35 gabriel_laddel I've made little to no progress on the codebase recently short of cleaning it up and ensuring that if, for some reason I'm interrupted, that someone else will be able to pick up where I left off if necessary. The sources, coupled with http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html provide enough detail for one to know what I have in mind and why. http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html provides an overview of the
↖ ↖ ↖
04:35 assbot A Realistic Solution to the Education Problem (DRAFT) ... ( http://bit.ly/1ykf3Js )
04:35 assbot Masamune ... ( http://bit.ly/1ykf3Jw )
04:35 gabriel_laddel project. I would suggest that no one waste their time working on this for the time being, I've simply cleaned things up on the off chance that I end up in alphabet soup or the like. The remainder of hacking that needs to be done is of the flavor described here: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/gabriel-laddel/masamune/master/browser/conkeror.lisp
04:35 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1ykf6oH )
04:35 gabriel_laddel Adlai ben_vulpes mats ^
04:37 assbot [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 458 @ 0.00451914 = 2.0698 BTC [+] {2}
04:38 gabriel_laddel http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1096338 << The docview program for Emacs converts .pdfs into .png files for viewing. Use this in 'batch mode' to prep for OCR. Then use ML to extract images, alignment information, resolve citations, authors.
04:38 assbot Logged on 11-04-2015 01:11:43; Chillum: the tech has improved only a little(mostly optimizations) since machine learning was invented
04:39 gabriel_laddel The programmatic object returned then can be used on top of something like e.g., CLIM
04:39 gabriel_laddel Which would be sane, and teh hotness.
04:41 gabriel_laddel http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-02-2015#1012802 << Seriously looking at linux has convinced me that this must wait until after a stable #-assets distribution and wotnet.
04:41 assbot Logged on 08-02-2015 19:54:52; mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel you seriously thinking of implementing a sane pgp ?
04:41 gabriel_laddel !up the_scourge
04:43 the_scourge gabriel_laddel: don't need to up me every 30min i'm just lurking on a rainy morning. plus i've got a bunch of coding do to so i won't want to have voice ... i'll end up chatting too much :)
04:44 the_scourge plus look at the logs i've been kickbanned
04:44 gabriel_laddel !down the_scourge
04:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 247900 @ 0.00029453 = 73.014 BTC [+] {2}
04:50 gabriel_laddel http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=25-03-2015#1069268 << for the record I was not attempting to "pass off" anything, but rather clearly define what it is that I'm talking about. I'm rather happy to have second-guessed that decision because the correct answer is that the lordship isn't clearly defined outside of what has been posted to trilema and as one who isn't a lord I have no buisness calling it anything other
04:50 assbot Logged on 25-03-2015 00:25:57; nubbins`: or, what was it the guy tried to pass off? "the peerage"
04:50 gabriel_laddel than "the lordship".
04:51 gabriel_laddel http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-03-2015#1054484
04:51 assbot Logged on 17-03-2015 02:24:27; asciilifeform: thing was called 'flare'
04:52 gabriel_laddel ^ Amazing that this shmuck (Yudkowsky) has funding.
04:52 assbot AMAZING COMPANY!
04:54 gabriel_laddel http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=12-03-2015#1050100 << \o *high five sound*
04:54 assbot Logged on 12-03-2015 12:07:24; Adlai: o/
~ 54 minutes ~
05:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 184600 @ 0.0002859 = 52.7771 BTC [-] {2}
~ 25 minutes ~
06:15 Bet placed: 10 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/ Odds: 9(Y):91(N) by coin, 10(Y):90(N) by weight. Total bet: 155.16184834 BTC. Current weight: 64,464.
~ 26 minutes ~
06:41 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 273500 @ 0.00029479 = 80.6251 BTC [+] {2}
~ 1 hours 5 minutes ~
07:47 cazalla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095085 <<< wake up before it goes off :P least that is what i've been doing
07:47 assbot Logged on 10-04-2015 18:16:14; ascii_field: i - age two weeks every time my alarm clock rings.
07:58 cazalla RE: collapse and motor vehicles, seriously now, ya'll want a dirt bike, what fucking use is a car going to be? dirt bike can go anywhere
~ 1 hours 1 minutes ~
08:59 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 230750 @ 0.0002949 = 68.0482 BTC [+] {3}
09:04 * Adlai reads the gabriel_laddel manifesto
~ 50 minutes ~
09:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51900 @ 0.00029075 = 15.0899 BTC [-]
~ 39 minutes ~
10:34 mats windows server 2003 EOL in under a hundred days
~ 35 minutes ~
11:10 Chillum Good morning
11:20 Apocalyptic !up Michail1
11:21 Michail1 Heard people in here play with pogoplug. True?
11:21 asciilifeform !s pogo
11:21 assbot 377 results for 'pogo' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=pogo
11:21 Michail1 Thanks.
11:22 asciilifeform Michail1: see also http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev starting from feb.'15
11:23 Michail1 http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev -- redirects to: http://ml.therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/ and then times out.
11:24 Apocalyptic Michail1, yeah same here, looks like the server is down
11:24 asciilifeform works here
11:24 asciilifeform jurov: ?
11:24 Michail1 Ok, you're sucking up all the BW. Let Apocalyptic and me in. :P
11:30 Michail1 Strange. works if I go directly to: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/
11:30 assbot The BTC-dev Archives ... ( http://bit.ly/1NqxN0p )
11:30 Michail1 Ok, found the issue.
11:30 Michail1 Your link was to: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev <~~~ no trailing /
11:31 Michail1 So, it redirects to: http://ml.therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/ instead of: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/
11:31 assbot The BTC-dev Archives ... ( http://bit.ly/1NqxYsC )
11:31 Michail1 http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev does not work.
11:31 Michail1 http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/ does work.
11:31 assbot The BTC-dev Archives ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nqy7w5 )
11:31 asciilifeform jurov ^
11:32 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 172850 @ 0.00029063 = 50.2354 BTC [-] {2}
~ 40 minutes ~
12:12 mats http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/national/2015/04/fbi_man_plotted_suicide_bomb_attack_at_kansas_military_base_0 USG exploits another mentally unwell person
12:12 assbot FBI: Man plotted suicide bomb attack at Kansas military base | Boston Herald ... ( http://bit.ly/1aivASy )
12:17 Adlai https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3275k9/daily_discussion_saturday_april_11_2015/cq8ll5j "What is China's trading area called, Great Wall Street?"
12:18 assbot selectorsam comments on [Daily Discussion] Saturday, April 11, 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1aiwCxT )
~ 41 minutes ~
12:59 funkenstein_ mats, sounds like "the secret agent" by joseph conrad
13:08 mats nothing fictional or derivative about it
13:09 mats this kinda con is on chapter one in the playbook
↖
13:20 mats a shit tsunami of tcpip.sys bugs lies in wait for server 2003 EOL
~ 32 minutes ~
13:52 mats http://recon.cx/2014/slides/Recon%202014%20Skochinsky.pdf intel me overview
~ 1 hours 2 minutes ~
14:54 ben_vulpes mats: go to sleep
14:55 ben_vulpes ;;later tell gabriel_laddel interdasting, i'll look over this
14:55 gribble The operation succeeded.
15:00 ben_vulpes holy hell this is a manifesto
15:02 ben_vulpes ;;later tell gabriel_laddel why are you in particular doomed for the alphabet soup?
↖
15:02 gribble The operation succeeded.
15:10 ben_vulpes 'lo, sir
15:10 gabriel_laddel good afternoon
15:11 funkenstein_ afternoon
15:11 funkenstein_ sorry i didn't get through reading the references in the references in the start of your material <-- how slow i am
15:11 ben_vulpes gabriel_laddel: i was under the impression you were in the process of curating a distro, was i mistaken
15:11 gabriel_laddel ben_vulpes: no
15:12 gabriel_laddel the distro has been curated - the development on top of that has not been finished
15:12 gabriel_laddel http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097455 << I'm not "doomed to it" anymore than anyone else. But I am looking for someone in the silly valley to pay my bills. When I explain what it is that I'm doing, let's say that this individual truely understands the implications of
15:12 assbot Logged on 11-04-2015 19:02:01; ben_vulpes: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel why are you in particular doomed for the alphabet soup?
15:12 gabriel_laddel "A single procedure call being all that is necessary to bundle the entirety of the (possibly heavily modified) sources into a redistributable bootable USB stick installer or network download. Coupled with meaningful extensibility, the unsophisticated interests that have taken ahold of the bureaucratic process of all linux distributions are bypassed. Imagine hunting down 1000s of individuals distributing a less crapp
15:12 gabriel_laddel y linux kernel via sneakernet produced by ? who didn't interface with the kernel devs and originally uploaded his modifications from several drones abandoned on coffee shop rooftops."
15:13 gabriel_laddel They are guaranteed to have an agent one or two handshakes away.
15:14 ben_vulpes nobody's coming after distro authors.
15:14 ben_vulpes the most that'll happen is that you'll get patches regendering the codebase.
↖
15:14 gabriel_laddel I'm not saying that it will happen, merely planning for the unlikely
15:15 trinque regendering << what a time to be alive
15:15 ben_vulpes gabriel_laddel: plan for victory, hedge appropriately.
15:16 gabriel_laddel yep.
15:16 ben_vulpes gabriel_laddel: have you heard of la serenissima's insurance policy?
15:16 gabriel_laddel nope, do tell
15:16 ben_vulpes bigger deal than the declaration of sovereignty.
15:16 ben_vulpes http://deedbot.org/350404-1BguzAaZR1j1j3EaAipNtt4xJoroy8V25o.txt
15:16 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1Fyfb57 )
15:17 ben_vulpes ey trinque, d'you have time to get the legacy deeds in this weekend?
15:17 gabriel_laddel impressive.
15:17 ben_vulpes it's be stellar to have them in place before con3.
15:17 ben_vulpes it'd*
15:17 trinque ben_vulpes: yeah I have time today
15:18 trinque doing some work atm but I'll make sure that happens this afternoon
15:18 ben_vulpes thank youuuuuu
15:18 trinque ben_vulpes: as I understand it I'll just take the old deeds and re-bundle them?
15:18 trinque is that what's desired, or should I involve the old transactions somehow
15:18 ben_vulpes buuh you and his popescuity have a better handle on the thing
15:18 ben_vulpes hm
15:19 ben_vulpes well the embedding transactions already went out
15:19 * ben_vulpes looks at deedbot.org
15:19 trinque embedding?
15:19 trinque arguably this is the first time this deedbot has seen any of these docs, so I don't think it makes sense to use old transactions as the timestamp
15:19 ben_vulpes do you think it'd be adequate to publish the block, the address and the bundle in the same table on deedbot.org?
15:20 ben_vulpes sure, *your* deedbot.
15:20 mats is there a direct equivalent for docview in vim?
15:20 trinque ben_vulpes: I could just make another deed with the original transaction data too
15:20 ben_vulpes sure
15:21 ben_vulpes seems like a waste of btc, but w/e
15:21 ben_vulpes no, actually no.
15:21 trinque I'm saying all as one bundle
15:21 ben_vulpes no no no
15:21 trinque publish them like they're new docs, and put an additional doc in there saying "hey here are the original txns for these"
15:21 ben_vulpes those deeds were published in certain blocks
15:21 trinque ben_vulpes: what what what
15:21 ben_vulpes the block in which a deed was published is actually important
15:21 trinque I am aware of that
15:22 mircea_popescu yeah, they were published in certain blocks, you/re not re-deeding them
15:22 ben_vulpes more rows at the bottom of the table, with block, addr and bundle.
15:22 trinque I'll just add a "from" address column, which is always the same for new bundles, but will be the old address for these
15:22 ben_vulpes did the encoding of deed bundle -> addr hash change between your and punkman's versions of the thing?
15:23 trinque shouldn't have
15:23 mircea_popescu i don't get why you'd do anythin other than a db import
15:23 ben_vulpes why is the "from" address necessary?
15:26 trinque ben_vulpes: strictly speaking it's not, except to answer the question "were these supposed to come from a different address?"
15:28 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097382 o.O
15:28 assbot Logged on 11-04-2015 08:35:04; gabriel_laddel: I've made little to no progress on the codebase recently short of cleaning it up and ensuring that if, for some reason I'm interrupted, that someone else will be able to pick up where I left off if necessary. The sources, coupled with http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html provide enough detail for one to know what I have in mind and why. http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html provides an
15:28 mircea_popescu uhh..
15:28 mircea_popescu the address they COME FROM dun matter, just the address they GO TO
15:28 mircea_popescu and that is constructed procedurally, for a reason
15:29 mircea_popescu remember ? people can spend the dust ? so you or anyone knows what address proves any claim ?
15:31 ben_vulpes yes yes yes
15:31 trinque I get it
15:31 trinque I just didn't run the old one, so was going to maybe mark these as having come from the old thing
15:31 ben_vulpes if you want to, deliniate with an <hr /> and a note.
15:32 trinque it's not a big deal
15:32 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you gotta have a look at http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097382
15:32 assbot Logged on 11-04-2015 08:35:04; gabriel_laddel: I've made little to no progress on the codebase recently short of cleaning it up and ensuring that if, for some reason I'm interrupted, that someone else will be able to pick up where I left off if necessary. The sources, coupled with http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html provide enough detail for one to know what I have in mind and why. http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html provides an
15:32 ben_vulpes at the same time...it's la serenissima's list of deeds. the notary in question is somewhat irrelevant.
15:33 mircea_popescu craftsman allowed to put a history mark in there, <hr /> is quite reasoanble actually.
15:33 trinque ^
15:33 mircea_popescu no need for a knote. who knowsn knowsn and who doesn't know better go suck some cocks to find out.
15:33 trinque not saying the old one didn't work, just wasn't my work
15:33 trinque easy to verify whether it did too
15:33 ben_vulpes is the dust getting collected?
15:33 mircea_popescu !rated gabriel_laddel
15:33 assbot You have not rated gabriel_laddel.
15:34 trinque ben_vulpes: it's still all out there
15:34 trinque afaik
15:34 ben_vulpes ibd
15:34 mircea_popescu !rate gabriel_laddel 1 http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html so basically this asshole once decided he'll eat an exercise ball.
15:34 assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/5e6532f9ff1c1706
15:34 assbot A Realistic Solution to the Education Problem (DRAFT) ... ( http://bit.ly/1ykf3Js )
15:35 assbot Masamune ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nrogq5 )
15:35 mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.gabriel_laddel.1:571f1ba6498d6c3fdb57a76a9bceb507251f88ce8977775e25f165ecfb533340
15:35 assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for gabriel_laddel with note: http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html so basically this asshole once decided he'll eat an exercise ball.
15:37 mircea_popescu ;;later tell gabriel_laddel "If you're reading this on github there is a more attractive HTML version here." but "here" IS on github. subdomain.gutrot.io
15:37 gribble The operation succeeded.
15:37 mircea_popescu mebbe i dun understand teh terminologies.
15:37 ben_vulpes i think it's a note for people reading via the repository browser
15:37 gabriel_laddel ^ correct.
15:38 gabriel_laddel unless I give someone the direct link, as in here they'll only see it from that code path.
15:38 mircea_popescu oh
15:38 gabriel_laddel anyways, that is confusing and I'll update it
15:38 mircea_popescu was masamune the "good" sword or the bad sword ?
15:39 mircea_popescu funny that all the west knows of a millennium of craftsmanship perfection and perhaps the matrix for all human accomplishment is "but which was the bad one".
15:39 gabriel_laddel It is the good sword. However in the game I stole the reference from - it was the sword of the villain.
15:39 mircea_popescu because yeah, totally, good-evil duality, most important thing that happened. was tom cruise in that ?
15:40 gabriel_laddel yeah, him and Bruce Willis
15:40 mircea_popescu asciilifeform if you wish to blame someone for the new jersey approach, blame constantine. it is HIS fault he stopped throwing idiots to the lions.
15:40 mircea_popescu the nj dudes were just wasps, an irrelevant, far removed margin of the idiocy pie.
15:41 mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel "MOOCS (massively open online courses and the like) have failed due to fundamental issues with their technical perspective - a perspective shared by nearly the entire fiat world. New frontiers have opened, Masamune provides a technical foundation for mission critical programmes of the future."
15:41 mircea_popescu this is vague, and in being vague is shit.
15:41 mircea_popescu what is wrong with "moocs" ?
15:42 gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: have you tried to use one?
15:42 gabriel_laddel mircea_popescu: or seen their completion rates?
15:43 mircea_popescu seems besides the point, but no and yes.
15:43 gabriel_laddel they're failures.
15:43 mircea_popescu in the "completion rate" sense, esp if ill defined, b-a is a failure.
15:44 mircea_popescu i don't see how it matters. a school which takes 100 7yos, produces 86 dead 18 yos and 14 sane 18yos is best school.
15:44 gabriel_laddel Completion rate is really irrelevent, the problem is that they've created this new "format" and books are still superior.
15:44 mircea_popescu appalling completion rate, but fuck their mothers.
15:44 mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel show, don't tell.
15:44 gabriel_laddel kk, will do
15:44 mircea_popescu and show me right here, at that.
15:45 mircea_popescu alternatively, i could tell you what's fundamentally broken with them :
15:45 gabriel_laddel Let's say that you sign up for a course. You cannot possibly learn anything interesting because they've got to execute all code in the browser, or barring that, you're aping youtube videos.
15:45 mircea_popescu they purport to be learner-driven. this is as idiotic as it gets. education works in the following stages : learner picks a teacher TO SUBMIT TO, blindly. teacher rapes the learner. this is education.
15:46 mircea_popescu in trying to insulate the learner from the hot core of education (the rape), moocs succeed in educating the learner from education altogether,
15:46 gabriel_laddel but what about autodidacts?
15:46 gabriel_laddel I've never had a formal teacher.
15:46 mircea_popescu becoming something in the style of wikipedia : a great way to batten down the ignorance of users. after a mooc they're just as ignorant as before, but now it's much harder to fix.
15:46 gabriel_laddel (well, one that I learned from)
15:46 mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel autodidacts are a case of split personality
15:47 mircea_popescu in those cases where they exist.
15:47 mircea_popescu look at mats, nut can't even sleep.
15:48 mats hey nao, i got 7 hours yest
15:48 mircea_popescu see, THAT is fundamental. what you're describing is not fundamental in any sense, but merely technical. which may be whats' wrong with them, for that matter
15:48 mircea_popescu mats how's life feel
15:48 gabriel_laddel While I think that the whole submitting to a teacher thing is important in some cases, we have 100ks of people running through e.g., introductory chemistry courses. There are only so many paths to walk.
15:48 gabriel_laddel One should be able to pick up a computer and learn
15:48 mircea_popescu the path analogy is very misleading, imo.
15:49 mats its a relatively nice spring day in new england
15:49 mircea_popescu irl, there exists such a thing as gravity. you can't float broadly over a path. gravity pushes you down into it.
15:49 mircea_popescu in abstract fields, no gravity to be your cruel mistress.
15:49 mircea_popescu same must be provided for you elsewhere for your learning to be a path.
15:49 mircea_popescu this can not be fixed by making the path itself different. it is outside the path. yes chemistry is the same.
15:49 mircea_popescu for a learner to learn it, it's not enough for chemistry to "be".
15:50 mircea_popescu mats nice spring here too, which means cooler o.O and for some reason they call spring autumn.
15:51 mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel if you wish the path analogy, moocs are like tourists : they go "to a foreign country", spend their time between local mcdonalds and local starbucks in the "idiot foreigners" quarter.
15:51 mircea_popescu travel is not tourism. travel is when you have pregnancy scares with local women that do not speak your language.
15:52 mircea_popescu which brings us back to my point : tourist in kenya is not more knowledgeable on "the country of africa" than obama. guy that went through "mooc introduction to chemistry" has NOT been introduced to chemistry.
15:52 mircea_popescu he's been introduced to not ever knowing chemistry.
15:53 mats autumn? weird.
15:53 mircea_popescu take enough of these you will never ever know anything.
15:53 mats i'm headed out in a bit to check out some MIT exhibits
15:54 ben_vulpes ask them to wire a lightbulb up
15:54 mats where you at whaack
15:55 mats yall don't give MIT kids enough credit. just sayn.
15:55 mircea_popescu for that matter, another important hook is the scientific method. (kuhn's book on the topic is absolutely required here, and really it's 100 pages or some shit.)
15:56 trinque mats: the US is literally idiocracy throughout
15:56 mircea_popescu the scientific method exists to provide support for research BY DENYING RESEARCH. that's all it does : marks wide swaths of perfectly valid human inquiry with a tar brush reading "STUPID SHIT WE DONT CARE LALALA"
15:56 mircea_popescu this is of course silly, in the abstract. in practice, it's the only way to have research, by cutting paths out of the unknown.
15:56 mircea_popescu the kid who wants to go "in all directions" just ends up making wall pizza
15:56 ben_vulpes eerie parallel to the "disqualifying bad teachers" thread.
15:56 mircea_popescu exactly.
15:58 mircea_popescu but anyway, moocs are made for the wiki generation of broken heads, and a necessary outgrowth from the brokedness baked in the pseudo-encyclopedism.
15:58 ben_vulpes "Regular expressions cannot respect a language's syntax (detect false positives short a full parser)" << this strikes me as a special case of the "cannot simulate a universe without a universe" claim.
↖
15:58 mats trinque: underestimating dangerous people is how clever folks get killed all the time.
15:58 trinque eh?
15:58 mircea_popescu mats how's the mit grad dangerous ?
15:58 ben_vulpes lol mit kids are dangerous now?
15:58 mircea_popescu well... "danger to himself and others"...
15:59 trinque my comment was sarcastic; I'm sure there are those at MIT that can manage a lightbulb
15:59 ben_vulpes the notion that google/facebook/mentorgraphics/ibm feeder schools produce dangerous individuals is *laughable*
15:59 mats i know more than a few grads that have gone on to accept offers with outfits like Palantir.
15:59 ben_vulpes precisely.
15:59 ben_vulpes feeder schools for the meatrobot farms.
15:59 ben_vulpes MIT killed Schwartz.
15:59 mircea_popescu uh. this is like saying "these drama nerds are very sexy, i know one writing for sex in the city"
15:59 mircea_popescu that's... not how it works.
15:59 mircea_popescu !up sinetekVII
16:00 ben_vulpes all of the other smart kids now know - MIT murders those who step out of line.
16:00 mats presuming there is not one functioning brain in the lot is fantasy.
16:00 ben_vulpes best go to reed or something.
16:00 ben_vulpes "not one functioning brain" << oversimplification
16:00 mircea_popescu mats the presumption is merely that any remaining brains are there IN SPITE of mit
16:00 mircea_popescu not because of it. that's all.
16:01 ben_vulpes moreover, MIT isn't producing more "functioning brains"
16:01 mircea_popescu but less.
16:01 ben_vulpes but simulacra that pass the sniff test at palantir and other usg sinecure production theaters
16:01 mircea_popescu fuck knows what palantir actually does.
16:02 mircea_popescu dubious if even the head has a clear picture. mebbe,
16:02 trinque persuade the usg to cut them fat checks
16:02 ben_vulpes procures and doles out usg cash. what else does one need to know?
16:02 mircea_popescu well, that's the function, financially, whatever. i mean you know, in its own privacy.
16:02 mats what i know is that i encountered the single largest number of talented folks with skills in weaponizing exploits at MIT
16:03 ben_vulpes writes haskell, wanks in ever more theatrical ways, no doubt.
16:03 mats and its nothing to scoff at. even for a second.
16:03 mats underestimate at your own peril
16:04 mircea_popescu so i should be careful with my windows 7 - ready laptop around them ?
16:04 ben_vulpes zing
16:04 mircea_popescu i've been there yo. i lived half a year in lowell, mass. i ate half my meals in the house of professors there. i know the place, as it happens.
16:05 mircea_popescu unless they found some sort of unction in the intervening decade, you can't find a single soul on the entire communist autonomous enclave of cambridge that can speak latin.
16:05 mats lowell is the anus of greater boston, yo.
16:05 ben_vulpes gabriel_laddel: 6.2.3 has some bogus character formatting
16:06 mircea_popescu lol is it ?
16:06 mircea_popescu at the time they were spending massively on some sort of "re-whatever" urban thing. turned a bunch of the old mills into artist lofts and whatnot
16:07 mircea_popescu (middlesex college has better tail, btw).
16:08 mircea_popescu http://mxcc.edu/future-students/ < http://mxcc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Benefits-of-Community-College-You-May-Not-Have-Thought-About-300x228.jpg
16:08 assbot Middlesex Community College - Middletown, CT ... ( http://bit.ly/1FynCxh )
16:08 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1FynEoX )
16:08 mircea_popescu shit, wrong one. wtf.
16:09 ben_vulpes trinque: http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html << 6.2.5 speaks to our shared visions of corporation as research/engineering labs
16:09 assbot A Realistic Solution to the Education Problem (DRAFT) ... ( http://bit.ly/1FynIFh )
16:09 mircea_popescu https://www.middlesex.mass.edu/ sadly no lulzy picture of words.
16:09 assbot Middlesex Community College - Homepage ... ( http://bit.ly/1FynQ7E )
16:13 trinque ben_vulpes: this writeup is triggering my end-user-programming ptsd
16:14 mircea_popescu he really got something there.
16:14 mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel i hope you appreciate i hit you over the head because i like you.
16:14 ben_vulpes i've gleaned some useful stuff from this.
16:14 ben_vulpes mostly that curating a distro and then building a lispy "os" on it is a bugger of a task.
16:15 ben_vulpes (also that SLY exists)
16:15 trinque ben_vulpes: 6.1 was eric's thought on the matter as well
16:16 trinque that the right computing environment would just naturally de-derp the user
16:16 trinque I have my doubts
16:16 mircea_popescu "The technical apartheid."
16:16 trinque mircea_popescu: my old boss called it the "end-user/developer divide."
16:17 mircea_popescu ^ lulzy. naturam expellas furca, tamen usque recurret
16:17 mircea_popescu so... you do in fact agree self directed doesn't work, and the shit has to be stomped out. just don't wanna say it.
16:18 trinque I agree 100%
16:18 mircea_popescu trinque there's definitely something to it. taking people out of a social context which forces and incentivizes them to be stupid usually results in shock, and then significant improvement.
16:18 ben_vulpes #b-a in a nutshell.
16:18 trinque anything I know is because I had mentors yelling at me and/or my work over my career so far
16:18 mircea_popescu kinda how "brainwashing" in the harem works. or body washing, for that matter.
16:18 mircea_popescu "i can't believe i'm losing all this weight. i am eating way more than b4"
16:19 trinque how could the student know how to construct a scenario which will teach him something he does not yet know
16:19 trinque maybe accidentally, but that's about it
16:20 mircea_popescu ... rather than provide for him the illusion that he has something new while saving him the effort by merely renaming the old shit in his head.
16:20 mircea_popescu self directed learning is like declaratory gender. "i am a woman now". "i am a chemist now". wd eh.
16:21 mircea_popescu " oil, refineries " << spurious comma at least.
16:23 mircea_popescu footnote 2 is at best confused, and fails to make its point.
16:23 mircea_popescu regarding the following questions: [basic, sensible questions] … doth not work, for one.
16:23 mircea_popescu " Prior to this, the IRS scandal, and currently the administration is refusing to take action on the illegal immigration problem. " << the main clause lost its verb.
16:24 mircea_popescu whole thing looks to me like so much emotion flailing to find expression.
16:24 mircea_popescu Googling "Leeland Yee", "California IOU", "Keith Jackson" or "mexican gangs" paints a rather grim picture. << i thought the web was broken.
16:25 trinque I think this self directed learning thing is just a reaction against having shitty universities; I know that's what motivated me to work on something similar
16:25 mircea_popescu ow sheit look at that. linking to... "the myspace anyone can edit" from your foundational document ? what happens if tomorrow that thing reads "laddel eats c0ks lawl" ?
16:26 mircea_popescu trinque yeah, which i insist on the score. the way the brokedness system has propagated itself since at least hamilton, ie two centuries ago,
16:26 mircea_popescu is the carefully managed "reaction to".
16:26 mircea_popescu if you think about how a split is driven into wood, i mean the newtonian mechanics underlying the process, you have the model ready : each advancement of the split is a "reaction to" one side or the other overbalancing.
16:27 mircea_popescu you can waltz straight to the devil on x axis by bouncing from -1 to +1 on the y axis.
16:30 mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel " I've assembled some quotes from Wikipedia which paint, from what I could tell, an accurate picture," what is the meaning of "from what i could tell" in that sentence ? because the follow-up, "I've lived in the US for 22 years and heard nothing about" seems essentially an appeal to ignorance. but that aside, how does the "From what i could tell" construct emerge here ?
16:30 mircea_popescu people don't want to sign code, even code they've written. trinque doesn't want to vouch for bundles he inherited. yet you're willing to vouch for this. why and how come ?
16:35 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: "this" the distro?
16:35 mircea_popescu no, this the excerpt.
16:36 ben_vulpes ah
16:39 mircea_popescu "africa is still trying to work around the genetic/epigenetic/cultural relationship that leads the inhabitants to destroy anything resembling order."
16:39 mircea_popescu africa is actually, at least from what i've observed, extremely ordered.
↖
16:39 mircea_popescu kinda the subhuman indolence discussed in http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/pseudosc/whyantiint.htm is its problem. not teh "violent disorder".
16:39 assbot Why is there Anti-Intellectualism? ... ( http://bit.ly/1DUukCU )
16:40 mircea_popescu rhodesia is the informative example on this topic. the white guys could survive the attack of outside blacks with the support of the inside blacks, even as the outsiders were being sponsored by the usual "helpers".
16:41 mircea_popescu if you can spend half your tiem on your farm and half the time shooting socialists in the head and still be a region leader, clearly the region's not much of a challenge in the first place.
16:41 mircea_popescu !up williamdunne
16:41 mircea_popescu an' all that's really missing is someone willing to go to the trouble.
16:45 mircea_popescu !up ascii_modem
16:47 mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel see, the djikstra quotes are great. because they are SOMEONE.
16:48 mircea_popescu i propose, broadly, that nobody ever cites wikipedia, in any context. for this exact reason : source needed.
16:48 mircea_popescu "knowledge" without source is gunk. ideally the source is a pgp signature. absent that, it may be a name pre 1980.
16:48 mircea_popescu but people we don't know from before 1980 MAY NOT EVER BE CITED unless they get in wot.
16:49 ascii_modem in old town dc / seppukuras bloom / but no sword have we.
16:49 ascii_modem ben_vulpes: what did mit do, eat your cat?
16:49 mircea_popescu to go with the "how to fight pseudoscience : ignore it" stuff on trilema.
16:49 mircea_popescu lol maybe his pussy.
16:49 mircea_popescu I once knew a girl, she was very smart. she went to mit, and never came back.
16:50 mircea_popescu no wait.
16:50 williamdunne mircea_popescu: What about using citations found on WikiPedia from somewhat credible sources (post 1980) that lack PGP sigs?
16:50 mircea_popescu I knew a girl once, she was very smart. She went to mit, then returned but never came back.
16:50 mircea_popescu williamdunne someone late may not be credible if they do not get in the wot.
16:50 mircea_popescu someone early may be excused because the word did not exist, is all.
16:51 mircea_popescu "exactly like the bible was driven. before was before, but this is after."
16:54 mircea_popescu "During the last decades the American Departments of Computing Science have severely suffered from a discrepancy between what society asked for and what society needed, but, be it slowly, the gap seems to be closing."
16:54 mircea_popescu heh.
16:55 mircea_popescu mr d is fortunate to have never considered "social studies" seriously.
~ 40 minutes ~
17:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 163250 @ 0.00029545 = 48.2322 BTC [+] {2}
17:46 trinque \\
17:57 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 150120 @ 0.00029247 = 43.9056 BTC [-]
18:01 whaack MIT duped a bunch of old guys to give us ~1,000 coins. Sure there are many "bad apples" but MP is definitely hating. Idk what's up with the lightbulb video it is a selected subset for the segment IMO
~ 18 minutes ~
18:20 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 172100 @ 0.00029703 = 51.1189 BTC [+] {3}
18:20 mircea_popescu whaack for all we know it's actors.
18:20 mircea_popescu i've never irl met anyone who couldn't actually light a bulb.
18:21 whaack right, that is not realistic
18:22 mircea_popescu still - ars longa, vita brevis. betting on ignorance is always safe.
18:23 mircea_popescu the problem is that they are selling themselves wrongly : as an achievement rather than as an attempt. which is what allows stuff like that video to *denote*, whether it describes or not.
18:23 mircea_popescu and that problem is present, and that problem is the deep reason i despise mit as an intellectual approach.
18:23 mircea_popescu im pretty sure it's why everyone else here, too.
18:23 mircea_popescu you follow ?
18:24 whaack oh definitely, that is a great way to word how I feel about MIT too
18:24 mircea_popescu so there we go.
18:26 whaack it's marketed that way due to the widespread lack of self-confidence in the community
18:27 mircea_popescu now what might be the cause of that.
18:27 mircea_popescu sure, to a certain degree the problem with the world is that idiots are cock sure while mit graduates are full of doubt.
18:28 mircea_popescu to a sadly larger degree however, the mit graudates' professed confidence rings hollow, like the posturings of the tiny dicked.
18:29 mircea_popescu the important part of that video isn't even (to my critical eye) the "light a bulb" segment. the important part is the opening sequence. a dweeb dweebing about how "we are the premiere bla bla". o yeah ?
18:30 mircea_popescu well for one, rhetorics is more than praxis, it's also the voice. that is NOT how you speak, if you even know what speech is.
18:30 mircea_popescu but he doesn't. why does he do it then ?
18:30 mircea_popescu oh, shall we excuse him because well... he didn't say premiere humanities, he said premiere technical, and this distinction is actually a thing ?
18:31 mircea_popescu if we shall excuse him for this, then why is he speaking at all ? he should show, right ? he's a technical guy, riught ? how come the only way his technical achievement reaches me is through rhetorics ?
18:31 mircea_popescu it's a sort of self-parody, that thing. the lightbulb segment merely drives this point home to people who aren't accustomed withj judging discourse : the guys are making total fools of themselves. the way they do it reminds the way the original guy did it.
18:34 mircea_popescu it's really a very well constructed piece, what with this classical parts of discourse, reinforcements of thesis etc approach. the guy that made it handshakes with me, and that's why i believe the piece to be important. it's not a matter of the wikified "was it or wasn't it", totalitarian superficialism. it's that the guy that made it clearly knows what he should be saying, and how.
18:34 whaack well for starters the person who winds up on the podium is going to be the one who spent his time trying to make sure he was on the podium instead of doing something interesting, so he/she will always be amongst the least interesting people at MIT
18:34 mircea_popescu and this can possibly excuse mit ?
18:34 mircea_popescu sounds a lot more like an indictment.
18:38 whaack also, he is likely stating this to try to fight against "sure, to a certain degree the problem with the world is that idiots are cock sure while mit graduates are full of doubt." Whether or not he's having an internal struggle and displaying it or trying to help others with their internal struggles idk, probably the former lol
18:38 mircea_popescu i do not read in the original speaker even the faintest glimmer of intellectual life.
18:39 mircea_popescu he is simply making stuff out of masticated wood pulp, like a wasp
18:39 mircea_popescu "because it's what's done. because it's what was always done. citation needed."
18:40 mircea_popescu a more grievous insult to what mit aims to pretend it is could not be devised. even if they invited elena ceausescu to hold that podium.
18:41 mircea_popescu an earthworm taped to an empty box at the grocer's is at least unrelated to academia, rather than the exact opposite of it. they would have been better served by the earthworm.
18:44 whaack right, but you collect a lot of people into the group "mit" The people who are in charge of running the quasi-religious graduation ceremony are logically always going to be the ones who are not pursuing interesting shit
18:45 whaack About half the students don't show up to this stuff, and when they do it's just because it's a place to socialize while someone is rambling in the background
18:45 mircea_popescu why logically ?
18:45 mircea_popescu that's the crux here. why "logically" ?
18:46 whaack because if you are deeply invested in research you have no time for the podium shenanagins, so it logically follows that those who are not deeply invested in research are the ones who do have time for podium shenanagins
18:47 mircea_popescu so now we're split in three, technical, humanities AND podium shenanigans ?
18:48 mircea_popescu division of labour is one thing. thought however... now that's indivisible.
18:49 whaack so now we're split in three, technical, humanities AND podium shenanigans ? << I'm confused what you're saying
18:51 mircea_popescu i am saying that historically kids that could add were excused from having to express themselves on the very flimsy grounds that "hey, not like they went to vassar, they're technical minds". hence the humanities-technicals division.
18:51 mircea_popescu now we're going to excuse everyone on the grounds that hey, no matter how badly the perceptible mit sucks, there's a really cool meta-mit ?
18:51 mircea_popescu like alf's meta-nsa ?
18:52 whaack now we're going to excuse everyone on the grounds that hey, no matter how badly the perceptible mit sucks, there's a really cool meta-mit ? << basically, yes
18:52 mircea_popescu like, you know, "my real self hasn't shown up yet" ?
18:52 mircea_popescu seems a diseased state.
18:53 mircea_popescu imo society would be better off with a lot of conjugally abused women ("but you don't know him like i do!") and functioning institutions
18:53 mircea_popescu than with no conjugal arrangements to speask of and institutionally abused people ("but you don't know mit like i do!")
18:53 mircea_popescu wtf even is all this cancer.
18:53 mircea_popescu ssergorp or something.
19:01 hanbot brandworld problems. the moment people care more about being associated with the group than doing the group's work, groupname is a lost cause.
19:02 mircea_popescu used to be. not anymore, thanks to wot etc, but myeah.
19:03 mircea_popescu still, a significant bias against anyone that offers their being a mit graduate does attach. one necessarily thinks "so this kid is dumb or what."
19:03 mircea_popescu even if they appear smart, that flaw is hard to wash. "he's dumb at least some times, apparently..."
19:05 whaack So... do you hold it against me for even revealing that I'm a student there?
19:06 mircea_popescu i don't particularly care, but doesn't it make you yourself wonder ?
19:09 mircea_popescu anyway, to answer the general question : biases are a statistic concept, they are meaningful when discussing groups, not individuals. for all i know you're there to troll them, or the only pipe you can get water to your house in happens to be rusted, what are you to do, be without water at all ? gotta wash etc.
19:09 mircea_popescu moreover,without specific cause, why would i judge the affairs of another to begin with ?
19:10 mircea_popescu you can be the dean of aids-is-cured-by-raping-virgin-infants university of harare for all i care.
19:11 whaack so revealing I go to MIT, for the most part, commands the respect of ignorant people
19:12 whaack so instead of "he's dumb at least some times, apparently.." you may want to think "is this fucker insulting me?"
19:12 mircea_popescu well if you do it inappropriately it may well command the disdain of thinking people.
19:12 mircea_popescu everyone's dumb at least some of the time.
19:13 mircea_popescu what exactly would be insulting about you going to mit ?
19:13 mircea_popescu i go to fratelli icecream parlour, does that insult you ?
19:13 whaack I'm saying that some ignorant people exalt those who go to MIT
19:14 whaack so, if for whatever reason I want the respect of an ignorant person, I may reveal to them that I go to MIT
19:15 mircea_popescu well, kinda poisoned. you don't generally want the respect of ignorant people on their own terms, but on yours.
19:15 mircea_popescu if you allow them to respect you on their own terms you end up buying into their stupidity sooner or later.
19:15 whaack right this is something I've realized / been coming to terms with only recently
19:16 whaack (sadly)
19:16 mircea_popescu you got plenty of time,
19:16 mircea_popescu for tomorrow, you die.
19:18 whaack your words hit hard, gonna copy that one
19:19 mircea_popescu !up e63
19:19 whaack ((changes resume to name, bitcoin address, and gpg key))
19:20 mircea_popescu great conversation piece
19:27 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097448 << sadly.
19:27 assbot Logged on 11-04-2015 17:09:13; mats: this kinda con is on chapter one in the playbook
19:29 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097470 << werd.
19:29 assbot Logged on 11-04-2015 19:14:20; ben_vulpes: the most that'll happen is that you'll get patches regendering the codebase.
19:30 mircea_popescu and if you don't put them in, hell, you'll sit and wodner why is it eliezer potterboy "gets funding" and why is it that the retarded seem to be particularly offended at whatever you happened to write last.
19:30 mircea_popescu sort-of like the bear wondering why he's not getting any milk and the shepherd dogs bark.
19:31 mircea_popescu "if only you were a sheep" "but i'm to big to be a sheep!" "nevertheless" "but sheep don't get milk anyway" "well... they're in the general area of where cheese is made..."
19:31 mircea_popescu logic.
19:33 mircea_popescu "So what is power? According to our friend Thomas Hobbes: servants, friends, riches, reputation, success, affability, nobility, eloquence, and being handsome." sheeit i had forgotten that definition.
19:33 mircea_popescu it actually is not even half bad.
19:33 mircea_popescu SFRRSANE&BH
19:33 mircea_popescu sfrr, sane & bh.
19:34 mircea_popescu (much funnier in romanian, where sfrr is an onomatopeia for sizzle, as in a steak's sizzle, and thus implicitly a pars pro toto reference to "servants, friends, riches, reputation", ie the steak's sizzle.)
19:35 mircea_popescu with expressions like "nici o sfiriala" =lit "no sizzle" = no big deal.
19:39 * ben_vulpes reviews the logs
19:39 ben_vulpes it's the mircea_popescu show!
19:39 mircea_popescu lol
19:41 mircea_popescu irc is the largest challenge to blogging i ever saw.
19:41 ben_vulpes anyways nonzero odds my grandmother passes during con3
19:41 mircea_popescu well... "irc". assbot-wot-irc.
19:42 ben_vulpes specifically #bitcoin-assets, and that only this year.
19:42 mircea_popescu myeah.
19:42 * mircea_popescu is out of grandparents.
19:43 ben_vulpes this is the last biological one i have
19:43 ben_vulpes and the second to pass while i'm in argentina, if things do play out that way.
19:44 mircea_popescu well here's to not.
19:44 ben_vulpes had an amusing conversation with a "transhumanist" the other day about life extension. counterparty had the notion that somehow we'd seen the limits of the body but not the limits of the brain. i asked if this person had actually ever watched an elderly person go through terminal decline, and the answer was of course "no".
19:44 mircea_popescu See, 3D Labs was a dying company. Their expensive GPUs were being marginalized by NVIDIA's increasing pressure on the workstation market. And unlike NVIDIA, 3D Labs did not have any presence in the mainstream market; if NVIDIA won, they died.
19:44 mircea_popescu Which they did.
19:44 mircea_popescu So, in a bid to remain relevant in a world that didn't want their products, 3D Labs showed up to a Game Developer Conference wielding presentations for something they called "OpenGL 2.0". This would be a complete, from-scratch rewrite of the OpenGL API. And that makes sense; there was a lot of cruft in OpenGL's API at the time (note: that cruft still exists). Just look at how texture loading and binding work; it's semi
19:45 mircea_popescu -arcane.
19:45 mircea_popescu dude...
19:45 ben_vulpes somehow to this person body and brain are separate things. this person who's never actually watched the terminal trainwreck of cascading failures.
19:45 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes and this person was under 30, and had never taken a virgin asshole, or planted a tree or butchered as much as a rabbit, couldn't put together a disassembled weapon of their choice if they had the whole day
19:46 mircea_popescu and aspires to a job to be obtained through an interview with hr.
19:46 ben_vulpes heh mas o menos
19:46 mircea_popescu (pro tip : if you get your job from the hr dept you suck. real men get their jobs from the ceo.)
19:46 ben_vulpes does actually know how to leverage meatwot for work, could probably put a bolt action together, but that's about it.
19:47 mircea_popescu and to never pass on a good sexist joke : real women, too.
19:48 ben_vulpes <mircea_popescu> well here's to not. << happens to all of us, no sense derping about when or under what conditions.
19:48 mircea_popescu there is that.
19:50 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 187450 @ 0.00029744 = 55.7551 BTC [+] {2}
19:51 ben_vulpes <whaack> ((changes resume to name, bitcoin address, and gpg key)) << you only have the one addr, and plan to tell folks about it?
19:54 ben_vulpes <ascii_modem> ben_vulpes: what did mit do, eat your cat? << 'tis a tentacle of the beast slithering out of the lake, seeking to fasten its suckers onto and drag under those who'd otherwise fight by my side
~ 54 minutes ~
20:49 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: what are your current thoughts on initial nodes for RI's running on the pogo?
20:49 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 449 @ 0.00251001 = 1.127 BTC [-]
20:50 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu, mod6 (others tracking the DNS seed thread as well): i'd like to hear from you all as well
~ 15 minutes ~
21:06 mircea_popescu that js at google "leaked email" thing is retarded.
21:07 mircea_popescu first off, the ios bs is no thread to the web. second off, the web's reach was never a major factor. third off, the web is failing, on its dismerits, but those have exactly nothing to do with javascript.
21:07 mircea_popescu fourth, js was never a significant or worthy of mention part of the web, at no stage in its lifecycle and certainly not during "infancy".
21:07 mircea_popescu fifth, the "web designer community" is ~= vc bezzle. it has exactly nothing to do with the web, relevancy, the future or anything else.
21:08 mircea_popescu and i could go on but whatevs. not like we're writing the encyclopedia of stupid.
21:10 mircea_popescu !up williamdunne
21:10 mircea_popescu !gettrust assbot williamdunne
21:10 assbot Trust relationship from user assbot to user williamdunne: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/assbot/williamdunne | http://w.b-a.link/user/williamdunne
21:10 williamdunne Thank you
21:10 mircea_popescu !rate williamdunne 1 new blood
21:10 assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a22aaa1730ad9108
21:11 mircea_popescu !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.williamdunne.1:6f842a3ee562affa0e377e4854d8c2a068b5464a0bb241fec1ff5a28c232aa96
21:11 assbot Successfully added a rating of 1 for williamdunne with note: new blood
21:11 williamdunne So the b-a WoT is separate to the b-otc WoT
21:11 mircea_popescu yes.
21:12 williamdunne And yeah, JS has always been about sacrificing security/performance for UX
21:13 mircea_popescu "ux".
21:13 williamdunne Well yes, most of the time they take it overboard and it ends up being a suicidal ordeal
21:13 mircea_popescu dux, more properly said. "interface with the stupid users". while i see a clear reason why all women should twerk, whether they like to or not, i see no reason any computer should ever twerk, whether women want them to or not.
21:14 mircea_popescu currently this situation is ass-backwards.
21:14 williamdunne "how do i use mpex - i think the css is broken1"
21:15 mircea_popescu i should probably put a "if you don't see the css, please get the latest version of your browser"
21:15 mircea_popescu drive people nuts.
21:15 williamdunne "please install internet explorer 6"
21:16 mircea_popescu "mpex is from the future. you need internet exploder 28 to view its css v 9 1/3"
21:16 williamdunne However that sort of tomfoolery might lose you your "slightly smoky dragon" award
21:17 mircea_popescu " The ability to incrementally develop programs (featured in the first video) has been a cornerstone feature of Lisp since the 80s (or earlier). " << you know this is the only way i like to program in the rare cases i actually do ?
21:17 mircea_popescu lol
21:20 williamdunne Yes I can remember reading something by you about the stupidity of beautiful code
21:20 williamdunne Or at least of having beautiful code being prioritized over functional code
21:21 mircea_popescu mebbe
21:26 assbot [MPEX] [FN] [F.MPIF] 10000 @ 0.000206 = 2.06 BTC [-]
21:27 williamdunne Oh, I was wondering the other day. What caused the removal of options from MPEX?
21:28 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 157550 @ 0.00029285 = 46.1385 BTC [-] {2}
21:35 mircea_popescu once the blog's back remind me an' i'll link you.
21:36 williamdunne Thank you
21:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 301100 @ 0.00029719 = 89.4839 BTC [+] {2}
~ 15 minutes ~
22:04 williamdunne Is the source for the WoT available? If I have some free time I'd like to take a crack at making it more readable
22:07 felipelalli !rate mircea_popescu 2 "his articles are great and fully of truth"
22:07 assbot Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/a198584104efc51a
22:09 felipelalli williamdunne: "Oh, I was wondering the other day. What caused the removal of options from MPEX?" << I wonder the same.
22:10 felipelalli williamdunne: this was for me the icing on the cake.
22:10 williamdunne Gotta love some hedging
22:22 asciilifeform re: the mit thing:
↖
22:22 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-09-2014#846759 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-09-2014#846760
22:22 assbot Logged on 27-09-2014 03:19:43; asciilifeform: sussman, surrendering to decay:
22:22 assbot Logged on 27-09-2014 03:19:44; asciilifeform: 'You have to do basic science on your libraries to see how they work, trying out different inputs and seeing how the code reacts.'
22:22 williamdunne If anyone is looking for a keybase.io invite hit me up
22:22 asciilifeform ^ see his article on why he allowed his iconic 'structure and interpretation of computer programming' course to get the axe.
22:22 asciilifeform williamdunne: we don't want invite to coprophagic restaurant either...
22:23 williamdunne To each his own, while its certainly not a WoT it seems useful to me
22:24 williamdunne (It is not meant to be WoT)
22:24 asciilifeform williamdunne: keybase and friends (usg in the broadest possible sense) can read your mail and sign as you.
22:24 asciilifeform if this satisfies you, why are you even bothering with crypto
22:24 williamdunne I don't store by GPG keys on Keybase...
22:25 asciilifeform to continue with mit thread: and to answer whaack's question: yes being associated with modern mit (vs 1980s and prior) is a serious strike against you. especially if you 'succeed' there. or, heaven help you, employed therein
22:25 asciilifeform to anyone who does not immediately apprehend the reason for my position, i invite a look into the 'mit press' catalogues for the last decade or so.
22:26 asciilifeform virtually 100% envirowhinerism, 'solutions' for the turd world, or 'accomplishments' of the Officially Sad
22:26 asciilifeform nothing even remotely SICP like.
22:26 asciilifeform since 1990 or so.
22:28 asciilifeform and yes i wanted to probe ben_vulpes before saying all of this.
22:28 asciilifeform see how much his picture overlapped with mine.
22:29 asciilifeform but i presently believe that it is the -duty- of any literate man of science today to despise mit and everything it now stands for, just as, e.g., an honest historian or anthropologist must despise harvard.
↖
22:29 asciilifeform and wish to see it demolished, the earth - salted, the inhabitants - lowered into pederasty
22:30 asciilifeform folks who went there - either of these or any other top academies of usg - by all rights ought to pretend to have spent their youth in jail or army.
22:31 williamdunne Both of which cost less
22:31 asciilifeform suppose you meet a chemist who enthusiastically studied and 'succeeded' - top marks! - under elena ceausescu.
22:31 asciilifeform or a biologist - under lysenko.
22:31 asciilifeform what kind of respect does either 'top student' deserve ?
↖
22:35 asciilifeform mircea_popescu:asciilifeform you gotta have a look at http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097382 << gabriel_laddel has good summaries of things, but i must confess that i am not particularly interested in 'lispy unix' as i consider it coprophagic pizza.
22:35 assbot Logged on 11-04-2015 08:35:04; gabriel_laddel: I've made little to no progress on the codebase recently short of cleaning it up and ensuring that if, for some reason I'm interrupted, that someone else will be able to pick up where I left off if necessary. The sources, coupled with http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html provide enough detail for one to know what I have in mind and why. http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html provides an
22:36 asciilifeform trimming down a unixlike to run therealbitcoin and other traditional proggies that we're stuck with - is one thing
22:36 asciilifeform to envision a 'wave of the future' that includes c and unix - entirely other.
↖ ↖
22:38 mats 22:22:28 <+asciilifeform> ^ see his article on why he allowed his iconic 'structure and interpretation of computer programming' course to get the axe. << link?
22:38 asciilifeform mats: linked shortly below in one of the linked log threads
22:40 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: he's been introduced to not ever knowing chemistry. << a more or less complete description of most american 'education' on most-any subject today.
22:40 asciilifeform not just at university level, either.
22:40 asciilifeform mats: i know more than a few grads that have gone on to accept offers with outfits like Palantir. << i imagine you know what takes place there.
22:41 mats its not linked, but i did find it by querying the fragment http://wingolog.org/archives/2009/03/24/international-lisp-conference-day-two
22:41 assbot international lisp conference -- day two -- wingolog ... ( http://bit.ly/1GXDJsm )
22:41 asciilifeform (palantir holds the title for best nameable candidate for meta-nsa. in that they are known to produce the tools which actually work, and - not being part of civil service hierarchy - are free to actually pay programmers something like real money)
22:43 asciilifeform when i say 'meta-nsa' - again it does not meant that every bipedal amoebal 'success organism' drawing pay there is a brilliant master
22:43 asciilifeform most folks in any large organization whatsoever are chaff.
22:43 mats yes, thats why i mentioned it. as a word of caution about respecting the enemy.
22:44 mats sometimes i wonder if folks in here have spent too much time battling midgets and have forgotten what its like to fight a man.
22:45 whaack to anyone who does not immediately apprehend the reason for my position, i invite a look into the 'mit press' catalogues for the last decade or so. << as was expressed in my conversation with mp, mit's press facade is different than its internals. Much like bitcoin
22:45 asciilifeform mats: man appears to fight mainly by swinging midgets like hammer
22:45 asciilifeform (why - ask him, not me)
22:45 mats lol.
22:45 asciilifeform whaack: ultimately 'you are what you pretend to be, so choose carefully what to pretend to be'
22:46 asciilifeform this applies to mit, usg, rome, whoever.
22:46 decimation mats: http://madsciencedefense.com/2014-hand-to-hand-study/ < turns out us military has used hand-to-hand more often than one might think
22:46 assbot The 2014 Hand-to-Hand StudyMad Science Defense ... ( http://bit.ly/1GXEpy1 )
22:46 decimation "216 out of 1,226 Soldiers (19.0%) reported using hand-to-hand combat skills in at least one encounter. The Soldiers’ descriptions indicated that hand-to-hand combat occurred in a variety of tactical situations "
22:46 mats of course. USG spent the last decade in iraq fighting in hovels.
22:47 asciilifeform how to take out sentry in any way that doesn't count as 'hand' ?
↖
22:47 mats 'combatives' are an essential part of training. especially in MOUT.
22:47 decimation “The second lesson incorporated from the PAIs was that Soldiers in OEF and OIF reported that their hand-to-hand combat encounters revolved around a contest over the Soldier’s weapon (e.g., rifle). It appears that a Soldier’s opponent regularly attempted to wrest control of the Soldier’s weapon during hand-to-hand combat encounters.”
22:47 mats (military operations in urban terrain)
22:48 asciilifeform mats: what i know is that i encountered the single largest number of talented folks with skills in weaponizing exploits at MIT << i find it peculiar that anyone would expect to encounter any concentration of such folks in the flesh, for the most part anywhere
22:48 mats i didn't expect it, i sought them out
22:48 asciilifeform what -does- concentrate at mit, and this was a pervasive-enough problem even in the golden days, as attested to by old hands - is concentration of braggarts and showmen
22:49 asciilifeform prestige farms draw narcissists, 'news at 11.'
22:49 mats if not to learn from them, then to identify useful assets
22:50 decimation asciilifeform: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2015/03/campbell_harvey.html < a wider indictment of academia
22:50 assbot " + soundfiledesc + " ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBi8Wn )
22:50 ben_vulpes ;;ticker
22:50 gribble Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 237.73, Best ask: 237.89, Bid-ask spread: 0.16000, Last trade: 237.82, 24 hour volume: 18095.46381514, 24 hour low: 233.72, 24 hour high: 240.58, 24 hour vwap: None
22:50 decimation "So the sort of papers that are published in psychology, over 92% of them are, 'Oh, here's a hypothesis; I did an experiment; and I get support.' So that is a problem. Because it leads to people essentially data mining to find a result to find a result and then getting it published. "
22:51 asciilifeform decimation: iirc they recently abandoned the very concept of 'p-value' in its entirety.
↖
22:51 asciilifeform because 'our pheeeelingz matter'
22:51 asciilifeform damnatio memoriae.
22:51 asciilifeform everyone responsible - straight to butugychag.
22:51 decimation "What worries me is that some of these findings that are found with the big data and the data miners, that people look at the findings and then only after the finding, they concoct a story or a theory, develop ex post some intuition, as to why this should work. And I think that's dangerous. I prefer to work on the basis of first principles: what is reasonable."
22:52 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i've not your experience nor your eloquence on the topic of MIT, but I do know they waste oodles of money via usg 'science', supply the meatrobots responsible for breaking everything, and glorify the breaking of everything under the auspices of 'patriotism'.
↖
22:52 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: it is merely the top concern among such meat processing plants, just as mcdonalds is a leader but sole player in the recycled-food field.
22:53 whaack what -does- concentrate at mit, and this was a pervasive-enough problem even in the golden days, as attested to by old hands - is concentration of braggarts and showmen << my point is the showmen are simply the loudest
22:53 asciilifeform i choose to place the fall of mit as the moment when sicp fell
22:53 asciilifeform just as the fall of rome is pinned to the particular overthrow where it is traditionally pinned
22:54 asciilifeform though both edifices were rotten quite thoroughly to the core long prior.
22:54 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i labored a bottom-tier version of same. if that place was as it was, MIT must be even more so.
22:54 ben_vulpes at* a
22:55 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: my first gig out of school was at an abominable usg-contracting salt mine where little gurlz straight out of mit, for that fact alone, were promoted, repeatedly, over everyone else's head
↖
22:56 asciilifeform revoltingly studious think-in-the box bitches, just as you might imagine
↖
22:56 * ben_vulpes can readily see it
22:57 ben_vulpes i studied with many of the like. getting them to think outside of the box was not worth the time as there was no prerequisite dicksucking going along with it.
22:57 asciilifeform it was even more of a circus:
22:58 asciilifeform as you may know, i live nowhere near mit. there were two offices. one, in cambridge, contained these masturbators, where they played with (largely nonfunctional) robots all day. whereas ours did the - predominantly deadly boring - work which actually paid the bills.
22:59 asciilifeform but enough of salt mines. i mention it because it was my first wake-up call that something happened to the mythical 'mecca' which i respected for 'having produced lisp machine and sicp'
22:59 asciilifeform before this, i only knew of mit at all from books.
22:59 asciilifeform it was a quasi-mythological animal in my mind, like library of alexandria
23:01 asciilifeform *not sole player in recycled food
23:01 decimation asciilifeform: example of such an mit gurl > http://fab.cba.mit.edu/classes/MIT/863.08/people/nadya/
23:01 assbot how to make almost anything ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBj5Ot )
23:01 asciilifeform decimation: no shortage of these
23:02 decimation she apparently spends her time coming up with python code to control motors
23:02 decimation as a 'graduate student'
23:02 asciilifeform decimation: have you -met- a modern graduate student ?
23:02 asciilifeform if the code is not plagiarized wholesale, this puts her above 99% of'em.
23:03 decimation heh good point
23:05 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: the most that'll happen is that you'll get patches regendering the codebase. mircea_popescu: and if you don't put them in, hell, you'll sit and wodner why is it eliezer potterboy "gets funding" << a large part of the purpose of current mit is to produce the folks who will produce these patches.
23:06 asciilifeform they are not, as someone might suppose, dead weight;
23:06 asciilifeform rather, they are politruks.
23:06 asciilifeform and there is to be one in every office, lab, bus, train, - elevator.
↖
23:07 asciilifeform never out of earshot of a Party member.
23:07 felipelalli mircea_popescu: I love this article: http://trilema.com/2014/guidance-there-is-no-such-thing-as-bitcoin-taint/ do you keep this opinion?
↖
23:07 assbot Guidance : There Is No Such Thing As Bitcoin Taint. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ca77d8 )
23:07 asciilifeform ;;isup trilema.com
23:07 gribble trilema.com is down
23:08 felipelalli it's not just you! http://trilema.com looks down from here.
23:08 assbot Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1A8nPcr )
23:08 asciilifeform felipelalli: it was unplugged (see mircea_popescu's explanation last night) and evidently not yet rehosted.
↖
23:11 felipelalli asciilifeform: thanks.
23:11 felipelalli !gettrust asciilifeform
23:11 assbot Trust relationship from user felipelalli to user asciilifeform: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 7 via 6 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/felipelalli/asciilifeform | http://w.b-a.link/user/asciilifeform
23:11 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: and aspires to a job to be obtained through an interview with hr. << i have never once found work through an 'hr'. this is not uncommon among my meatwot. (not a magical feat by any means at any rate.)
23:14 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what are your current thoughts on initial nodes for RI's running on the pogo? << the initial nodes must be us.
23:14 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: can't speak for others, but i refuse to consider the leaking turd usable in any sense whatsoever.
↖ ↖
23:16 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 160000 @ 0.00029166 = 46.6656 BTC [-] {2}
23:18 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel: https://github.com/gabriel-laddel/masamune/blob/master/browser/conkeror.lisp << why?!>!!?
23:18 assbot masamune/conkeror.lisp at master · gabriel-laddel/masamune · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBkHrs )
23:20 mircea_popescu <williamdunne> Is the source for the WoT available? << if you mean, how to interact with assbot ? it's in wiki.
23:20 mircea_popescu !h
23:20 assbot http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot
23:21 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097925 << not that bad if you're black, tho.
23:21 assbot Logged on 12-04-2015 02:29:20; asciilifeform: but i presently believe that it is the -duty- of any literate man of science today to despise mit and everything it now stands for, just as, e.g., an honest historian or anthropologist must despise harvard.
23:23 decimation ben_vulpes: looks like they rolled ERC into the new emacs (24.5)
23:23 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-10-2014#853306 ?
23:23 assbot Logged on 01-10-2014 11:58:20; mircea_popescu: if i were black in the us i would be fucking worried for my children. being ~10% of the population and >50% of the public discourse is how the hasidim suddenly disappeared from history.
23:23 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097931 << one of the brightest minds in an XX body i ever met had finished her thesis under romania's most inept "logician", cca 1988. the woman was not significantly harmed by a half decade's internship with that bootmaker in disguise.
23:23 assbot Logged on 12-04-2015 02:31:41; asciilifeform: what kind of respect does either 'top student' deserve ?
23:24 mircea_popescu the thing is, romania at the time had a very specific atmosphere, one that protected such people in such situaitons like al oxides protect the al.
23:24 asciilifeform happens!
23:24 asciilifeform i, for instance, happen to believe that soviet mathematics will not be equalled for the next 500 years.
23:24 asciilifeform (yes, pulled number from my prophetic sphincter.)
23:25 asciilifeform and it worked on precisely this 'oxide' principle.
23:25 mircea_popescu which is why despising mit as a group is so important : people who despise their inept professors may survive them even when forced by events to work there.
23:25 * asciilifeform can only with great difficulty picture anyone 'forced' to partake of mit, but allows for the sake of argument.
23:25 mircea_popescu similarly, but in the other direction, abject slaves that nevertheless unwholesomely despise their superior masters remain abject irrespective of time spent in slavery thereof.
23:26 mircea_popescu asciilifeform so don't have children. problem solved.
23:26 * asciilifeform thinks it will be a hilarious cosmic joke if the sharashka he is worked to death in happens to be built at mit.
23:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: which problem
23:27 mircea_popescu seems only fare. i mean fire. i mean pharoh.
23:27 mircea_popescu fair, whatever.
23:27 mircea_popescu the children problem. ten lines up.
23:27 asciilifeform aha that one.
23:28 asciilifeform i would observe that everyone presently in good favour of usg by virtue of their 'passport data' - skin, gonads, etc. - runs the risk of ending up weimar-jewed
23:28 asciilifeform if events take a sudden turn.
23:29 mircea_popescu ironically, the jewish situation... oh gawd. at the time of the holocaust, the hasidim were arguably the most advanced troop in the world. certainly > 90% of jewry by cultural and intellectual weight, if 50% or so by mass. for all the squalor of the old manhattan, which is what eastern europe was, the place rocked.
23:29 mircea_popescu then the nazis wiped them, modern jewry is in this situation where someone cut the flower, kept the stalk in a vase.
23:29 mircea_popescu not only very very sad as it decays... but also mindboggling.
23:30 asciilifeform is the last yidish newspaper in brooklyn out of print yet?
23:30 mircea_popescu either a decade ago or a decade hence, but yeah.
23:30 * asciilifeform was last there in '01, shortly pre-bigboom, and it was in business
23:30 asciilifeform mainly shipped to old folks' homes though
23:31 mircea_popescu yeah, but in 2001 you could not find a better newspaper in new york.
23:32 mircea_popescu and that was 2001. long, long before the greenwaldization, long long before the pr-intern and dumb-blonde-chick-from-minessota that eventually yielded its own bastardized meta-story eventually apotheosized in that horseface dumbass...
23:32 mircea_popescu pretty decayed, yes, but nowhere near today's.
23:32 asciilifeform the seeds of all of it were not only in the ground, but long sprouted and budding leaves.
23:32 mircea_popescu sure, no argument. nevertheless, there was still ground.
23:32 asciilifeform al schwartz observed the signs in '94 up
23:32 mircea_popescu and on that ground that there was, nyt could not compete.
23:34 mircea_popescu funny that newspapers survived mad koontz but did not survive vint cerf.
23:34 mircea_popescu btw, was http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-31450389 here ? i forget.
23:34 assbot Google's Vint Cerf warns of 'digital Dark Age' - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1DV78o6 )
23:35 asciilifeform iirc
23:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116387 @ 0.00028979 = 33.7278 BTC [-] {2}
23:35 asciilifeform insulting to the intelligence of anyone who watched google usenet archive decay
23:35 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097935 << it's a draft, eh.
23:35 assbot Logged on 12-04-2015 02:36:29; asciilifeform: to envision a 'wave of the future' that includes c and unix - entirely other.
23:36 mircea_popescu asciilifeform what, you think usenet was salvageable ?!
23:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: hybrid of oxcart and airplane, where we progressively remove pieces of the ox yoke - uninteresting to me.
23:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: salvageable in the preserve-in-ice sense
23:36 mircea_popescu ok, one at a time.
23:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i am at this point convinced that google killed it deliberately.
23:36 whaack to end the discussion of mit O, "MIT Technology Review" http://www.technologyreview.com/view/524666/bitcoin-lacks-the-properties-of-a-real-currency/
23:36 assbot Bitcoin Lacks the Properties of a Real Currency | MIT Technology Review ... ( http://bit.ly/1DV7kDG )
23:36 mircea_popescu the guy's draft : nothing has been construted. let him draw.
23:37 asciilifeform the folks who were making fools of themselves on usenet now want to be usg brass
23:37 asciilifeform so it was time to desaparecer the spew.
23:37 mircea_popescu the usenet : you can not "preserve in ice". this requires two naive presupositions : one that the text is self contained, the other that the text is fixed. neither is true.
23:37 mircea_popescu much like any living organism, the text can only be interpreted in its environment (here - the people who wrote it), and only as a functional, living thing.
23:37 mircea_popescu otherwise...
23:38 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: fact is, there was a pretty useful and fairly complete snapshot in the ice. and now i look in the cryostat and find rotting gibblets and alive with flies.
23:38 asciilifeform there were no flies before.
23:38 mircea_popescu this is true of the lenin mausoleum as well.
23:38 asciilifeform and -considerably- more flesh
23:38 mircea_popescu it is a property of the ice.
23:38 asciilifeform and the process was -not- continuous, as in lenin's case.
23:38 mircea_popescu the perceptible part was not.
23:38 asciilifeform the thing stopped being searchable roughly two years ago.
23:38 mircea_popescu again - the supposition that the entire text is given in itself is naive.
23:39 mircea_popescu just as much a part of it is invisible, and that invisibly decayed.
23:39 asciilifeform i have copies of several groups day-by-day of own making.
23:39 asciilifeform google's snapshot was 99+%, for them.
23:39 mircea_popescu they only exist because you saved the unsaveable as well,
23:39 mircea_popescu if unintentionally.
23:39 asciilifeform unsaveable lol
23:39 mircea_popescu myeah.
23:39 mircea_popescu think in variety speak terms. for it's what it is.
23:40 asciilifeform if what mircea_popescu is alluding to is that the design of usenet allowed for the possibility of 'parallel universes' where folks carry on a conversation that never reached my server - then yes.
23:40 asciilifeform it is true.
23:40 mircea_popescu not in the slightest.
23:40 mircea_popescu what i am saying is that preconceived notions must be shared, for the text to be readable. these preconceptions melted.
23:41 asciilifeform 'xxxx is not yet dead, while we still live' (TM)
23:41 mircea_popescu careful with that "we".
23:41 mircea_popescu it does not mean what it appears to mean.
23:41 asciilifeform well, just me.
23:41 mircea_popescu well, so there you have it.
23:41 mircea_popescu everyone that can read it may keep a copy, and no one else.
23:41 mircea_popescu however they may try.
23:41 mircea_popescu and by "can read it" i mean, of course, "could have written it"
23:42 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: let's suppose. then, when precisely did the flame go out ?
23:42 mircea_popescu probably dotcom bust rattled enough of the people that they wanted to forget.
23:43 asciilifeform i mean, i grasp that mircea_popescu is referring to cultural death.
23:43 mircea_popescu it may be that they wanted to forget for the reason you suspect, but i do not think so.
23:43 mircea_popescu rarely do people wish to forget for a purpose. it's almost always for a cause
23:43 mircea_popescu and that cause almost always is, "i can not believe how stupid i've been"
23:43 asciilifeform the 'digital vellum' think is maddening precisely because of the idiot scholasticism implied
23:43 mircea_popescu myeah.
23:44 mircea_popescu he's going to freeze the text AND THE OS dontcha know.
23:44 asciilifeform sorta like the monks who copied geometric tracts without any comprehension at all, or any regard for the actual content
23:44 asciilifeform but only the pretty pictures, perverted to taste
23:44 mircea_popescu tyvm. meanwhile, i can't fucking remember where the tread on X is. so what do i do ? i ask here. and someone remembers and links.
23:44 mircea_popescu freeze that.
23:44 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 180400 @ 0.00028431 = 51.2895 BTC [-] {3}
23:45 asciilifeform http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32270655
23:45 assbot Capitol Hill locked down as gunman shoots himself - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBn6Cu )
23:45 asciilifeform mega-l0l
23:45 mircea_popescu the problem with ascii being like naughty bits is merely a reflection of the much larger problem : everything about a text is like that. by itself.
23:46 asciilifeform i walked right by, saw no more than the usual amount of stormtroopers.
23:46 mircea_popescu introducing the gossipd style of comms changes nothing at all, merely makes this divide palpable, like that famous japanese butcher's following of the lines already there.
23:46 mircea_popescu otherwise, the same string from different hands is different, irreducibly.
23:46 mircea_popescu links right into why one can't have "ideas" and all that.
23:47 mircea_popescu incidentally, why do they not say "gunmanorwoman" ?
23:47 asciilifeform l0l guess.
23:47 mircea_popescu "Confirmed: self-inflicted gunshot by neutralized subject," Capital Police spokeswoman Kimberly Schneider said in a statement.
23:47 mircea_popescu uh...
23:48 mircea_popescu this language...
23:48 asciilifeform my mental image was inevitably a hog-tied fella, extracting a little pistol from his arse houdini-style, to end it all and avoid the torture chambers.
23:49 mircea_popescu i thought houdini couldn't get it up.
23:50 * asciilifeform not familiar with this detail.
23:50 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097958 << arbalest.
23:50 assbot Logged on 12-04-2015 02:47:09; asciilifeform: how to take out sentry in any way that doesn't count as 'hand' ?
23:51 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: or these well-known items, http://world.guns.ru/ammunition/russian-special-cartridges-r.html
23:51 assbot Современное стрелковое оружие мира - Специальные Российские патроны ... ( http://bit.ly/1JBnHEg )
23:52 asciilifeform ^ produced even today.
23:52 mircea_popescu for the obvious reason. bette than a knife
23:52 mircea_popescu in fact, most sentires do not even realise they've been shot at if you miss before you reload.
23:53 asciilifeform subsonic, aha.
23:53 mircea_popescu and anyone (tm) should be able to sever a cervical spine at twenty paces.
23:53 asciilifeform http://www.megasword.ru/index.php?pg=815 << original, afaik, example of the principle.
23:53 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1DV8Cij )
23:55 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-04-2015#1097977 << stanford is the patriotic one.
23:55 assbot Logged on 12-04-2015 02:52:11; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i've not your experience nor your eloquence on the topic of MIT, but I do know they waste oodles of money via usg 'science', supply the meatrobots responsible for breaking everything, and glorify the breaking of everything under the auspices of 'patriotism'.
23:55 asciilifeform in gurevich's system, there was no iron piston, as in the later 'СП'. instead, there was a small quantity of... water.
23:56 mircea_popescu mit is the "for the economy" one.
23:56 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: actually mit subdivision 'lincoln labs' - and several smaller orgs - serve top tier .mil and intelligence contractors.
23:56 mircea_popescu also for the economy.
23:57 asciilifeform what then happens in the 'patriotic' zoo ?
23:57 mircea_popescu mmm... obama.
23:58 mircea_popescu see, they're all selling the same snake oil, but! harvard is "for humanity', stanford is "patriotism", mit is "for the economy", the chicks one whatever it's called is "for the arts" etc.
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