Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-09-26 | 2014-09-28 → ↓
00:00 BingoBoingo In the courtroom, who doesn't want a pipe hitting member of the tribe on their team?
00:02 decimation these days I doubt you would find much difference between 'mainstream' Christianity and 'mainstream' Judaism
00:02 danielpbarron https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+11%3A19-24&version=NKJV
00:02 assbot Romans 11:19-24 NKJV - You will say then, Branches were - Bible Gateway
00:02 decimation therefore I am dubious that folk would be able to differentiate
00:03 decimation danielpbarron: how many Christian churches actively proselytize the Jews?
00:04 danielpbarron how could I know such a thing?
00:05 BingoBoingo http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/23-20.htm
00:05 assbot Ezekiel 23:20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
00:06 decimation danielpbarron: I'm not accusing you of anything - I am just tired of nominal Christians in the us kowtowing to Israel
00:07 danielpbarron i'm not worried about Israel -- God will do as he pleases
00:09 * asciilifeform likes to suggest pondering theological implications of a glassed middle east
00:10 decimation Ted Cruz sure does http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/why-christians-are-criticizing-ted-cruz-and-israel/
00:10 assbot Why Christians Are Criticizing Cruz—and Israel | The American Conservative
00:10 danielpbarron I doubt it very much, since the city of Jerusalem is literally God
00:11 danielpbarron the hypothetical nuking of Israel, that is.
00:11 BingoBoingo * asciilifeform likes to suggest pondering theological implications of a glassed middle east << With sufficient yields can make spotting the oil easier
00:12 danielpbarron but try to nuke God; see what happens.
00:12 asciilifeform if you get the same old crater - perhaps he lives elsewhere
00:13 assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1GRQRW0.txt )
00:13 BingoBoingo !b 2
00:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16522 @ 0.0007522 = 12.4278 BTC [+] {3}
00:20 BingoBoingo Looking at his last century and spz. a sense of humor... perhaps god lives in Spain's sewers?
00:30 BingoBoingo !up Mrstickball
00:30 BingoBoingo !up hguux
~ 42 minutes ~
01:13 BingoBoingo Fuckers better win this baseball game
01:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00074941 = 7.2693 BTC [-] {2}
01:27 BingoBoingo !up w0ot
01:28 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00074785 = 4.4123 BTC [-]
~ 1 hours 15 minutes ~
02:43 thestringpuller silent as fuck tonight
02:47 BingoBoingo WTF??? http://www.coindesk.com/diamond-circle-launches-first-cashless-bitcoin-atm/
02:47 assbot Diamond Circle Launches First Cashless Bitcoin ATM
02:50 bounce because compared to that evil cash, visa and mastercard are so much better propositions... for the customer.
~ 19 minutes ~
03:09 xmj another day
03:09 xmj two more bash CVEs
03:09 xmj :)
03:10 thestringpuller two more?
03:10 thestringpuller this is sorta terrifying
03:11 xmj CVE-2014-7186 CVE-2014-7187
03:11 xmj but, they're with moderate impact
03:12 xmj thestringpuller: that's what happens when people actually start reading bloated software. same thing with openssl after libressl fork.
03:14 cazalla BingoBoingo, these things almost alwawys come out down under
03:16 thestringpuller !up moriarty
03:16 moriarty visa and mastercard rules as a duopoly
03:17 xmj there's american express, too
03:17 moriarty they target the upper segment of the market
03:17 moriarty but they're being crowded out by more prestigious but newer players
03:17 xmj whom?
03:17 xmj also: not the only difference.
03:18 BingoBoingo Walmart has american express branded "financial products"
03:18 xmj VISA + MasterCard provide the infrastructure but not the credit carts itself
03:18 xmj banks need to refurbish Visa+MC.
03:18 xmj AmEx does that directly
03:18 moriarty JP Morgan Palladium for one
03:21 moriarty sure, Visa and Mastercard are actually a consortium of banks that came together to merge their electronic funds transfer networks into one
03:21 moriarty or two in this case
03:22 bounce bleh, yet another marketeering vehicle
03:23 moriarty so Visa came about from the now defunct IBANCO and Mastercard's counterpart is ICA
03:23 moriarty and cards came about as a tabs based system between banks and departmental stores or oil companies
03:23 moriarty so if you were a customer at a bank and you shopped at a departmental store, you could use such a card to settle your transactions
03:24 bounce the problem is that the whole thing is optimised for appearance, not substance. technically the whole credit card thing doesn't work very well.
03:24 moriarty and of course that's how American Express got its name
03:24 moriarty because it was mainly dealing with postal deliveries in competition with the USPS
03:24 moriarty so what you perceive as exclusivity today came from very humble beginnings :)
03:24 fluffypony bounce: its because they were designed when ancient and crummy infrastructure was still a thinf
03:24 fluffypony Thing
03:26 moriarty lol thank god for the k-line
03:26 moriarty it's about time such abuses were prevented
03:26 bounce more specifically, the banking system is now so unavoidable (yet) and so privacy unfriendly that it's quickly becoming more of a hazard than a boon for the clients.
03:27 moriarty bounce, there's always a tradeoff between convenience and security/privacy never forget that
03:27 bounce tangentially, the more money and/or (benign) visibility you have, the easier it gets to right certain wrongs, perversely supporting broken systems like this.
03:27 bounce that's a false dichotomy and therefore rationalisation bullshit
03:28 moriarty bounce, and what's wrong with that
03:28 moriarty if you're rich, then chances are you're doing something right
03:28 moriarty and that offsets whatever you did wrong
03:28 bounce we can do so much better, yet aren't doing it. we're making unnecessary tradeoffs and are telling ourselfs it's the best we can have so suck it up
03:28 moriarty if you're poor then, well, you need to get started on balancing all the red in your ledgers
03:28 moriarty :)
03:28 moriarty bounce, it's the new world where if you've done nothing wrong, you've got nothing to hide
03:28 bounce hi paris, congratulations on having stopped being poor
03:29 moriarty paris has superior genes
03:30 bounce will you donate the money for gene therapy against poorness to any and all poor who come asking?
03:31 moriarty bounce, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYLon-rki10
03:31 assbot Paris Hilton - Stars Are Blind HD - YouTube
03:31 xmj you're evil, moriarty
03:31 moriarty bounce, haha you're hilarious
03:31 bounce logical conclusion from your own troll, dear
03:32 moriarty xmj, at least i'm not google, i don't pretend to do no evil :) and then rape everyone
03:32 moriarty xmj, it's funny how google and NSA have the same objectives as organisations
03:32 xmj bounce: the cheaper option is to prevent dysgenics..
03:32 xmj moriarty: one is private company
03:32 thestringpuller Vidya games
03:32 xmj moriarty: at least, google does not rely on government-granted monopoly of force
03:32 moriarty xmj, both collect all data on everybody and exploit it
03:32 moriarty xmj, same difference
03:32 xmj moriarty: yes
03:33 xmj moriarty: difference: you can buy GOOG stock and benefit from it
03:33 xmj can't do that with NSA Inc.
03:33 moriarty bounce, well, i am not against genetic therapy, as long as it's a permanent change and not a superficial treatment
03:33 moriarty bounce, if you can fix your genes to be permanently superior, then i'm all for it
03:33 moriarty i.e. when you pass it on to some offspring, you don't have to fix it again
03:33 xmj http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Pages/default.aspx
03:33 assbot Welcome to the City of London Corporation
03:33 bounce if everybody does that then they're no longer superior
03:33 xmj City of London Corporation
03:33 xmj in case you were confused.
03:33 moriarty xmj, with NSA, you can as well
03:34 moriarty xmj, just buy the USD
03:34 xmj moriarty: not the same thing
03:34 moriarty xmj, sure it is
03:34 xmj USD does not represent equity in the US government.
03:34 xmj at best, it's foreign capital
03:34 BingoBoingo Bah, moriarty You've gone some broken ideas on how stratification works
03:34 bounce but the takeaway ought to be that you (ie, those in power) are rigging the system then blaming the victims for having let the system end up being rigged against them.
03:34 xmj BingoBoingo: assortative mating works differently :)
03:35 xmj bounce: that's a perfectly valid strategy
03:35 xmj -- if you're sociopath
03:35 moriarty xmj, oh you want a more direct implication? invest in Boeing, CSC, Northrop Grumman, Booz, SAIC
03:35 moriarty need i say more? :)
03:35 xmj moriarty: still not US Government equity
03:35 moriarty xmj, you thought the NSA was designed for something other than economic superiority?
03:35 moriarty xmj, oh you want something more direct, try t-bills
03:35 BingoBoingo The point is if you are a Hilton that sucks, you can make porn or Biodiesel.
03:35 xmj certainly: risk mitigation
03:36 xmj moriarty: WHICH PART ABOUT EQUITY ARE YOU NOT GETTING GOD DAMNIT
03:36 moriarty BingoBoingo, heh what's your view point on stratification?
03:36 xmj jesus fucking christ.
03:36 moriarty xmj, Boeing has no equity? :)
03:36 fluffypony moriarty is best troll
03:36 fluffypony <3
03:36 moriarty do you realise the extent of NSA's contractual dishouts?
03:36 xmj fluffypony: yeah, he's currently driving me up the walls.
03:36 xmj <3
03:36 xmj i may learn from him
03:37 moriarty it's to the tune of 8 billion yearly
03:37 xmj but first, i have to finish porting GitLab to FreeBSD, it'll be done by tonight.
03:37 BingoBoingo moriarty: Aristocracy is great, but... You've got to maintain a position in it. If you suck it doesn't matter that you're a Borgia.
03:37 moriarty lol then again i don't think many people in here know too much about stocks or ##econometrics
03:37 xmj BingoBoingo: assortative mating.
03:37 moriarty so why am i wasting my breath on the uninitiated?
03:37 moriarty BingoBoingo, agreed, but aristocracy is based on flair and looks :)
03:37 xmj BingoBoingo: recently I read a paper on how English peers in the 14th through 16th century mated.
03:38 moriarty BingoBoingo, if you're ugly or keep offending people, then chances are you won't last very long on that throne
03:38 bounce where?
03:38 xmj BingoBoingo: assortative mating is where it's at
03:38 xmj :3
03:38 xmj thankfully, good genes are heritable.
03:38 xmj My plan is to become rich and marry a non-stupid model. :)
03:38 moriarty brilliance in a super model
03:38 moriarty lol that's the quintessential nerd's dream
03:39 moriarty like that ever makes a difference when you're busy banging the broad
03:39 bounce depends on what you're calling brilliant.
03:39 xmj moriarty: everyone loves a good unicorn
03:39 moriarty bounce, lol
03:39 xmj moriarty: once you factor in genetics, you obviously want the unicorn.
03:39 moriarty xmj, personally i prefer my broads dumb
03:39 bounce well, you just all but declared your interest in ms. hilton, didn't you?
03:39 xmj fluffypony: how long have you screened until you found your charming girl? :p
03:39 moriarty bounce, of course :)
03:40 moriarty bounce, wanna see my new girlfriend?
03:40 xmj marrying rich is the other alternative..
03:40 fluffypony xmj: met her when I was 28
03:40 moriarty marrying rich is indicative that your spouse-to-be is not as bright as you claim you'd be attracted by
03:40 xmj fluffypony: screened long enough, then?
03:40 moriarty if they're marrying down, then they're not being very efficient
03:41 bounce that depends entirely on what they themselves define to be efficient
03:41 xmj moriarty: or you're showing promise to be rich on your own
03:41 fluffypony xmj: yeah, call it 10 years or so:-P
03:41 xmj fluffypony: :)
03:41 moriarty bounce, evolution has a pretty standardised template on that
03:41 moriarty xmj, promise is not the same as track record
03:41 xmj yeah, well, promise is promise
03:41 moriarty xmj, seems i have to dumb everything down for you
03:41 moriarty xmj, yeah you can promise me the moon, doesn't mean jack
03:41 bounce IOW, what they want out of life. definitions of "success" differ markedly across various people.
03:41 xmj moriarty: water is wet, did you know?
03:41 moriarty show me the money, xmj
03:42 moriarty bounce, success as defined by evolutionary survival
03:42 xmj bounce: tru dat. certain people consider 5+ children as success
03:42 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18970 @ 0.00075176 = 14.2609 BTC [+] {2}
03:42 bounce some think a few kids but a giant nest egg would serve them better
03:42 moriarty defining your own success metrics means nothing in the face of being a top-ranked hustler in society
03:42 moriarty it's all about how high you climb in society in terms of status, power and fortune
03:43 bounce some think dumb women are easier to handle and therefore a surer way to success
03:43 moriarty :) and with that comes the implicit requirements for looks, intellect and social grace
03:43 moriarty bounce, i like dumb women because they know how society functions
03:43 moriarty bounce, the smart women are the ones who have trouble adapting to society
03:43 bounce why haven't you moved to some islamic country yet?
03:44 moriarty bounce, heh there's a difference between being dumb, and being dumb
03:44 bounce sure, invent arbitrary differences to support your "argument"
03:44 moriarty it's arbitrary to someone who does not get the nuances of popularity, status and how society functions
03:45 bounce girls /might/ learn to read there, but that's it. no education, instant knowledge how society functions. there you go.
03:45 moriarty when i say dumb, it's not as simple as academics
03:45 moriarty lol dumb is someone in the words of Deng Xiaoping, cherish obscurity, hide brilliance
03:45 bounce that's no models for you then
03:46 moriarty well how big is China's economy now?
03:46 moriarty :)
03:46 moriarty some model
03:46 bounce nononono, models derive existence and proceeds from being seen
03:46 bounce you can't have both here
03:48 bounce same with trophy wives, for that matter
03:52 xmj 10:42:57 <+moriarty> it's all about how high you climb in society in terms of status, power and fortune
03:53 xmj ultra-calvinist point of view
03:53 xmj it's about creating a Legacy.
04:00 BingoBoingo !up moriarty
04:04 moriarty bounce, well, the effects are visible without having to explicitly state one's own brilliance
04:05 moriarty i think that's what is meant when someone aspires for an intellectual girl
04:06 moriarty i.e. someone who explicitly shows off her intellectual prowess, and while that's welcome, it is the more subtle girl who exerts her intelligence socially that is probably someone i admire more, moreover because social mastery is something more elusive than academic
04:07 bounce "dumb" isn't the right word for that, not even close.
04:07 moriarty and a girl who is confident in her intelligence need not always be so nerdy about it, i.e. she can act like a normal human being without telling me about the intricacies of quantum field theory and the fundamental tradeoffs between continuous/discretisation of spacetime continuum binded together by the graviton or loop quantum gravity
04:09 moriarty sure, on outward appearance she appears dumb because she likes all the conventional things that a popular girl likes :) hair straighteners, mixers, proms, but i value such a girl who can master social situations and get people to do what she wants implicitly
04:10 moriarty and academic mastery is trivial at this point :) so she need not flaunt it because well, flaunting your intellectual superiority is a surefire way to arouse envy and be at odds with having social grace
04:10 moriarty so yeah quintessentially dumb :)
04:10 moriarty but my kind of girl
04:11 bounce think your definition of "not dumb" is a bit too narrow. there's such a thing as kinds of intelligence (we know this inasmuch as we know what intelligence is anyway, which we don't, not really), and what you're rooting for is "social intelligence", something girls tend to be better with than boys
04:12 moriarty xmj, well if calvinism is attributable as a predecessor to capitalism then i don't see what's so bad about it
04:12 bounce whereas your definition inasmuch as it is one also includes girls that have no intelligence whatsoever, of any kind. those exist too, you know.
04:12 moriarty with regards to paving the way for making usury and profit-taking more acceptable socially
04:13 thestringpuller where did fluffypony go?
04:13 bounce out to pasture
04:13 moriarty bounce, exactly :) well, i am alluding to the typical profiling of dumb vs non-dumb girls
04:13 fluffypony I'm still here
04:13 moriarty bounce, the perception that comes with what constitutes a dumb girl and an intellectual girl is more deceptive than first sight
04:13 xmj moriarty: check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protestant_Ethic_and_the_Spirit_of_Capitalism
04:13 assbot The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
04:14 fluffypony Jusr not paying much attention to the convo
04:14 fluffypony Cause on iPad
04:14 bounce sorry to hear that
04:14 * xmj gives fluffypony keyboard
04:14 fluffypony lol
04:15 moriarty xmj, sure i'm aware of how calvinism leads to capitalism in response to some hindering medieval positions of how we cannot contribute to our own betterment
04:15 moriarty xmj, and i'm all for that :)
04:16 bounce curious how some religions cause people to better themselves and others to mostly kill everybody else
04:16 moriarty xmj, the model of self-reliance is a good model to have, it dispels away with all the illnesses and perversions that comes with a more fatalistic view of society, think conspiracy theorists, suicide bombers, basically people who perceive their own destinies are unchangeable and thus resort to such desperate measures or justification of reality in order to make life more livable
04:16 xmj bounce: protestantism lead to betterment mostly via increasing the literacy rate
04:17 moriarty bounce, well, religion is basically philosophy
04:17 xmj you can actually track that throgh earlier, higher, GDP growth.
04:17 moriarty bounce, ultimately the superior philosophy prevails
04:17 moriarty bounce, that's why some countries are superior to others
04:17 xmj especially if you compare against catholic parts of countries/countries
04:17 moriarty philosophy underpins constitutions, and if you set up your nation proper, then you will get a thriving economic powerhouse
04:17 moriarty set it up wrongly, and you are doomed permanently
04:17 moriarty my viewpoint is people's elections of leadership is missing the point
04:17 bounce there's a bunch busily proving you wrong there
04:17 BingoBoingo <moriarty> bounce, well, religion is basically philosophy << Bold claim
04:18 moriarty if your constitution is fucked, then you're better off emigrating
04:18 moriarty BingoBoingo, how's that?
04:18 bounce for one because religion tends to contain a lot of "shut up and do what I say"
04:18 BingoBoingo moriarty: Religion generally requires Spz. additional dependencies that philosophy per it self doesn't
04:18 BingoBoingo Things like faith, etc.
04:18 moriarty BingoBoingo, sure, and philosophy doesn't require faith? :)
04:19 BingoBoingo Not in all of its forms.
04:19 moriarty BingoBoingo, what do you think all the axioms require in a philosophical model if not faith?
04:19 BingoBoingo Who needs axioms?
04:19 moriarty BingoBoingo, even science requires faith
04:19 moriarty everything needs axioms as Godel would have you know
04:19 moriarty :)
04:19 bounce nothing requires you to believe the axioms.
04:19 moriarty bounce, then you cannot build any system of belief without it
04:20 moriarty or any logical system even
04:20 BingoBoingo There was a great gulf between Euclid and Pythagorus
04:20 bounce building on axioms goes like "IFF these are true THEN it follows that...", bit of a difference from "these things ARE TRUE regardless of what reality says BECAUSE GOD TOLD ME SO"
04:21 moriarty bounce, well it's no different then saying, IFF God tells me so THEN it follows that...
04:21 bounce you really see no difference in that?
04:21 moriarty bounce, nope
04:22 bounce then philosophy is dogma to you, innit
04:22 BingoBoingo No difference at all?
04:22 moriarty bounce, pretty much :)
04:22 moriarty bounce, are you familiar with Godel's incompleteness theorem?
04:22 BingoBoingo I don't know what confusion of ideas can lead to this conversation.
04:22 moriarty tell me in a one-liner what you think the first incompleteness theorem is espousing
04:23 moriarty let me help clarify your confusion, BingoBoingo
04:23 moriarty the first incompleteness theorem states that under the proper conditions, there are statements that are true but not provable
04:24 moriarty and these are a result from a non-isomorphic model as proven by Lowenheim-Skolem in first order logic
04:25 moriarty the second part of Godel's exposition states that under proper conditions, a strong formal system cannot prove its consistency
04:25 moriarty think axiom of choice, or Zorn's lemma being equivalent over the ZF set theory as such attempts and the findings prove as much
04:26 BingoBoingo And yet the Moon rocket worked.
04:26 bounce that still doesn't require belief. let me give you a simile.
04:26 moriarty the power of ##econometrics and mathematics leads you to such mind-clarifying conclusions :) never underestimate the power of knowledge to distill the world with such ease
04:27 moriarty BingoBoingo, sure, or that a bitcoin trader profited
04:27 moriarty what does that tell you? not a lot
04:27 moriarty are his axioms or beliefs correct? maybe, maybe not
04:27 moriarty it's the classical Humean induction dilemma
04:28 moriarty bounce, sure, go ahead
04:28 BingoBoingo moriarty: Well what happen to poor Cantor in the end after meditating on Cardinality so long?
04:28 BingoBoingo How bored as a lens grinder did SPinoza have to be to develop his system?
04:29 bounce consider, if you will, philosophy to ideas as math is to numbers; you can start with axioms and build on top of them. you can admire the building, you can refine it, you can start over and build something else. nothing requires to believe in your own bullshit, though if you'd like, you can at your own peril. probably going to get you some scorn from other philosophers if you do.
04:29 moriarty BingoBoingo, how much fun did Feynman have as raconteur, playboy and bongo player :)
04:30 BingoBoingo How funny are fundamentals, when you consider the anatomic fundament?
04:30 moriarty BingoBoingo, how wealthy did Newton die off in the end and the power he amassed politically and economically?
04:30 moriarty for every ludicrous example you have there are more counterexamples :)
04:30 bounce in comparison and contrast, religion typically starts with teaching you about a building constructed aeons ago, likely by confused shepherds high on whatever it was they were smoking, and requires you to live by its tenets. quite possibly at the peril of your life, if not at least at the peril of your eternal soul.
04:32 bounce equate them and you'd be equating brazilian slums to downtown london or something. it's a little confused.
04:33 BingoBoingo !up Feynman, Newton worked on problems with applications. Cantor, Spinoza drowned in fundamentals.
04:33 BingoBoingo !up moriarty
04:37 moriarty bounce, religion is basically at its most simplest an assortment of teachings on how to live life optimally within the constructs of society at that point in time
04:37 moriarty bounce, this is not too dissimilar from constitutions of today which are viewed with such sacred respect
04:37 xmj fun fact: ideology is virtually indistinguishable from religion
04:37 moriarty bounce, and as such is impossible to modify the tenets of
04:37 xmj every ideological sect has its pope.
04:37 moriarty xmj, exactly!
04:38 moriarty took the words right out of my mouth
04:38 xmj including the anarchists
04:38 moriarty righto
04:38 moriarty BingoBoingo, the fundamentals elucidate the applications
04:38 moriarty BingoBoingo, fact is, without fundamentals, you cannot achieve any sort of meaningful application, you're as good as monkeys with typewriters
04:39 moriarty with fundamentals, it becomes glaringly obvious how to apply and optimise a fit-for-purpose invention
04:39 xmj bounce: if you're not perceived as believing in your own philosophy, you'll a) not sell it and b) be considered hypocrite
04:39 moriarty that's how it is with technical analysis vis-a-vis ##econometrics :-) heh
04:39 xmj why develop a philosophy if you don't believe in it?
04:39 moriarty in one, you do lots of application, in the other you do applications too, but you understand the fundamentals driving your model
04:39 moriarty ask any TA-er what they understand
04:39 moriarty you'd find very little if anything
04:40 BingoBoingo !up blast
04:40 moriarty xmj, because the mind is a playground
04:40 moriarty xmj, playing devil's advocate has never been funner :) it exercises your otherwise bored mind and allows you to travel from one ideology to another and have fun with them
04:41 xmj moriarty: devil's advocate requires taking someone else's ideology, putting it into a jail/sandbox, examining it
04:41 fluffypony Funner is not a word
04:41 xmj you can't play devils advocate on your own philosophies
04:41 xmj you cannot conceivably play devil AND devil's advocate in one person UNLESS maybe you're really multiple.
04:41 xmj or schizo
04:41 fluffypony lulz
04:42 xmj fluffypony: shush
04:42 moriarty xmj, lol the world is not dichotomous and neither should individuals be :)
04:43 xmj vague inapplicable statement is vague inapplicable
04:43 moriarty xmj, and sure you can, it's not too dissimilar from the film Divergent :)
04:43 xmj moriarty: if you want, i can spam you with vague statements that are technically correct and don't mean shit.
04:43 xmj please don't do this.
04:47 moriarty xmj, let's try a little credo, i see ideologies as part of a continuum, many of the questions i am interested in lies in the intersection, i tend to think in terms of probability distributions rather than dichotomous epistemic categories
04:48 moriarty xmj, does that clarify things better now?
04:48 moriarty sorry i tend to assume people know what i'm talking about
04:48 xmj lies in the intersection of WHAT?
04:48 moriarty ideologies
04:48 moriarty is that clear?
04:48 xmj you really really suck in terms of language preciseness, did you realize that yet?
04:48 moriarty do you understand now?
04:48 moriarty :)
04:49 moriarty well, i tend to assume people are well-read
04:49 moriarty so when i use certain phrases, it elucidates certain concepts and principles from famous books and works
04:49 moriarty but hey if you need me to espouse further i'm always happy to oblige
04:51 xmj you know, you're a dickhead.
04:51 xmj "I tend to assume people are well-read"
04:51 moriarty hehe
04:51 xmj yeah, i'm well-read
04:51 xmj and yeah, you suck at communicating precisely.
04:51 xmj stop being a dickhead.
04:51 xmj be precise from the beginning
04:51 moriarty precision takes time
04:51 moriarty that's why culture exists
04:52 moriarty when you make a joke, you don't want to explain the entire innuendo and corresponding nuances associated to be precise about your joke
04:52 moriarty it's the imprecision that captivates, makes you giggle
04:52 moriarty and if you don't get the joke, well, explaining it would kill the joke
04:52 moriarty :)
04:52 bounce therefore, you are the joke
04:52 moriarty the double, triple, quadruple entendres
04:52 * bounce kills moriarty
04:52 moriarty lol bounce
04:52 * moriarty dies
04:52 moriarty owh
04:52 moriarty :'(
04:53 xmj ...
04:53 * bounce sets mode +rumpelstiltskin on user moriarty for channel #bitcoin-assets
04:53 moriarty pshaw
04:56 moriarty xmj, but in short, philosophies are nothing more than gedanken experiments designed to hypothesize what would happen in a given closed loop system, and then society tests them
04:56 moriarty xmj, and generally the optimal solutions lie at the intersections, which ironically if you think about it is the textbook definition of creativity
04:56 xmj that's like saying
04:56 xmj sex is nothing more than a theory, and then people fuck
04:56 moriarty the intersection of factoids in our minds is the hallway of creativity
04:56 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.14300002 = 0.858 BTC [-] {2}
04:56 xmj do you realize how inconsistent you think?
04:56 RagnarDanneskjol hah
04:56 moriarty when you transcend one discipline with a concept, and apply it in another discipline, that's creativity in a nutshell
04:57 moriarty xmj, maybe english is not your first language
04:57 xmj well, duh.
04:57 moriarty so it seems imprecise, but every different word has a slightly different implication
04:57 moriarty and simplifying statements would not make it easier to understand them
04:57 xmj moriarty: maybe thinking is not your best activity.
04:57 moriarty you lose the meaning actually
04:57 bounce even so, you're making a right hash of things
04:57 xmj holy cow
04:58 xmj see, and this is why i like talking to people on the autistic spectrum when it comes to philosophy.
04:58 xmj at least they're FUCKING PRECISE about things.
04:58 moriarty lol you mean people whose backgrounds in philosophy are as shallow as yours?
04:59 moriarty because every concept representable by a phrase or term in philosophy has books written supporting it
04:59 xmj FUCK OFF.
04:59 moriarty and to drill down what those concepts are about precisely is to have a conversation extending to years
04:59 xmj holy crap.
04:59 bounce shush xmj
04:59 bounce moriarty, don't be an ass please
04:59 moriarty you think i'm joking?
04:59 xmj plonk /ignore -replies moriarty
04:59 moriarty lol you think Heidegger exists in isolation?
04:59 moriarty the whole of philosophy is a continuous conversation dating back to Aristotle
05:00 xmj No time for wishy-washy blabla.
05:00 bounce yes, but you're using that as a load of rationalising crap for your own shoddy use of language. call it somewhat self-serving.
05:00 moriarty the problem with autistic people or my understanding of the crowd you're referring to, is that they are used to neat and concise models that exist inscience
05:00 moriarty in science*
05:00 moriarty no such models exist in philosophy
05:01 moriarty i don't know if any of you have ever done any humanities
05:01 RagnarDanneskjol oh god
05:01 moriarty but the classic distinction with the liberal arts is that they tend to require an exponential effort in reading material
05:01 xmj ?
05:01 xmj RagnarDanneskjol: sup?
05:01 bounce so what's the exponent?
05:01 RagnarDanneskjol this guy
05:01 moriarty bounce, lol what?
05:02 xmj me?
05:02 bounce see? you're using terms of art and when called upon them go like "lol what?"
05:02 RagnarDanneskjol no
05:02 xmj k
05:02 moriarty bounce, i said exponential, not exponent
05:02 bounce hmhm
05:03 moriarty when i was involved in finance, my amount of reading went up hundred-fold, sure, there was a lot of overlap, but they cover different situations, and it's a bit like chess, you read all the possible moves and what you can do from there
05:03 moriarty that's the arts
05:03 moriarty there is no simple equation that governs most scenarios
05:03 moriarty the same it is in philosophy or law
05:04 xmj some people have their precision removed and think they don't
05:04 xmj happens all the time.
05:05 bounce law is a good case in point for what xmj was saying; you need to be very precise in what you say. a misplaced comma can easily cost millions of dollars.
05:05 RagnarDanneskjol vaguely precise even will do
05:05 bounce sure it's a lot of reading and sure there are a lot of people saying confused things, perhaps even deliberately confusing issues.
05:06 bounce but that doesn't change the basic fact that if you actually do say exactly what you mean you still typically have a better chance of getting the point across
05:07 RagnarDanneskjol it helps
05:14 xmj bounce: precisely
05:14 xmj explicit > implicit
05:14 xmj precise > vague
05:21 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.00074835 = 8.2319 BTC [-]
05:22 * jurov is looking forward to the fateful day when someone suceeds in feeding of all humanitites to a computer and creating an ontology
05:32 jurov http://paste.lisp.org/display/143864 "standing on the shoulders of giants"
05:35 jurov or rather, piling of chairs
05:36 bounce "nobody told them the input they passed wouldn't be taken as data but as code, yet it's their fault anyhow"
05:37 bounce maybe the writer thinks there's great value into twisting logic like this, but he surely does not have much appreciation for the cost.
05:39 jurov everyone took the environment variables at face value for 15 years... that's beyone assinging the blame
05:39 jurov *beyond
05:41 jurov interesting that zsh does nothing like bash with env vars, just passes them around
05:41 RagnarDanneskjol !up deedBot
05:41 jurov someone must have decided about it when coding zsh, yet nobdy realized
05:41 RagnarDanneskjol !up MolokoDesk
05:42 RagnarDanneskjol hey jurov, wanna see the deedbot
05:42 jurov hi deedbot
05:42 RagnarDanneskjol .deed http://pastebin.com/QzPGJbj6
05:42 assbot deedbot test 9.26.14 - Pastebin.com
05:43 deedBot KeyID: B98228A001ABFFC7 deed with 1 signatory.
05:43 deedBot KeyID: 35D2E1A0457E6498 deed with 1 signatory.
05:43 deedBot deed keyID: B98228A001ABFFC7 trust: 12 nick: asciilifeform (valid and scheduled for next bundle)
05:43 deedBot deed keyID: 35D2E1A0457E6498 trust: 3 nick: RagnarDanneskjol (valid and scheduled for next bundle)
05:43 RagnarDanneskjol now we wait until the top of the hour
05:43 MolokoDesk Cyc was/is supposed to be somewhat like that. I think it doesn't handle what linguists call scripts or scenarios, but Lenat and OpenCYC are aware of the issues.
05:43 RagnarDanneskjol hmm
05:44 MolokoDesk (talking about feeding humanities into a computer and creating an ontology)
05:46 MolokoDesk heh. I was reading about Alain Badiou last few days. He counterposes ontologies with "events" that break the ontology. His stuff is peculiar. Philosophers seem to be looking for/looking at things like unfalsifiable hypotheses, and areas where logic breaks down, the nature of paradoxes and at various limiting cases of systematized thought.
05:46 MolokoDesk stuff currently outside the envelope of "understandabilty" or "logical resolution".
05:47 MolokoDesk anyway, ragnar suggests it's feasible to poll or access gribble via an http interface of some sort without going through IRC/freenode.
05:47 MolokoDesk I was initially scraping bitcoin-otc's web of trust search tools to get the trust metrics.
05:48 RagnarDanneskjol yes that - for this context
05:48 bounce openpgp in javascript. oh dear.
05:48 RagnarDanneskjol at least
05:48 MolokoDesk apparently that's not "trusted" here. not sure why. I know gribble is the software agent that maintains the bitcoin-otc WoT data structure.
05:48 punkman MolokoDesk: you can keep a local copy of gribble's database, update once a day or something
05:49 jurov or ask how assbot is doing it
05:49 RagnarDanneskjol opengpg java is 'just' as secure as anything else assuming its totally isolated
05:49 MolokoDesk ok. one scenario I was talking about a few minutes ago was someone vandalizes the bot and has their rating lowered below access threshold, but they're still trusted by deedBot and deedBot keeps getting vandalized.
05:49 MolokoDesk the other scenario is someone urgently needs to register contracts to they're up-rated to +2 to access the bot, but it won't recognize their new rating because it "already has" that info.
05:50 MolokoDesk so right now I'm looking up the trust metric for each batch of incoming contracts. it's not that much overhead.
05:50 MolokoDesk making a resident agent that sit's in IRC and relays requests coming in over HTTP to gribble would work.
05:51 MolokoDesk make a tiny webserver combined with a very limited IRC bot.
05:51 MolokoDesk the webserver only has to open sockets and fork() a process occasionally.
05:51 MolokoDesk it's like a 20 line program if even that.
05:51 MolokoDesk not that I want to do that.
05:51 MolokoDesk heh.
05:52 MolokoDesk if there's an http interface to gribble's database that would work too. some SQL-ish RPC-ish thing.
05:52 punkman http://bitcoin-otc.com/otc/ you can grab raw data here
05:53 assbot Index of /otc
05:53 MolokoDesk if there's confidence that the bitcoin-otc website /WoT site is not insecure I can just use my old code to get trust metrics over the web. It's the same database.
05:53 MolokoDesk thanx, punkman. clue.
05:53 MolokoDesk heh. the database is smaller than most image files.
05:54 punkman I don't think you need to worry about vandalism or urgency
05:54 MolokoDesk i wonder how often those are update.
05:54 RagnarDanneskjol 15 mins i think
05:55 MolokoDesk .calc 24*15
05:55 deedBot 24 * 15 = 360
05:55 MolokoDesk i shouldhave known that from celestial navigation. each hour is 15 degrees of arc.
05:55 RagnarDanneskjol all that celestial navigation you do
05:56 MolokoDesk "SQLite format" ... header in RatingSystem.db
05:57 MolokoDesk yeah, writing all the SQLishness to query that database for a few people seems overkill.
05:57 MolokoDesk scaling to bitcoin-otc though it would make sense.
05:59 RagnarDanneskjol might be worth finding out exactly how nano uses the db to inform gribbl
05:59 punkman it's on github
06:00 punkman https://github.com/nanotube/supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor
06:00 assbot nanotube/supybot-bitcoin-marketmonitor GitHub
06:00 RagnarDanneskjol i thought only sourcedforge
06:00 MolokoDesk just getting set up to read that .db file could take all day
06:00 RagnarDanneskjol i thought that was just one gribble's modules
06:01 punkman why? sqlite is easy
06:01 MolokoDesk SQLite dependencies, and associated system adminstration.
06:01 MolokoDesk yeah, it's easy if you want to get involved in all that.
06:01 punkman you are confusing sqlite with other beasts perhaps
06:01 MolokoDesk if it's importable into mySQL it would be easy.
06:02 MolokoDesk well.. let's see.. first you have to apt-get SQLite and hope it runs...
06:02 MolokoDesk assuming you have sudo access on the server it's going to run on...
06:02 MolokoDesk I think you see the problem
06:02 MolokoDesk something can be easy but take a week to get working.
06:02 MolokoDesk especially something I already have two solutions to.
06:03 MolokoDesk but yeah, there's the data on a platter.
06:03 MolokoDesk and it's good to know about.
06:03 RagnarDanneskjol MolokoDesk - tracking bundle in other chan
06:04 punkman yeah just query gribble on demand and be done with it
06:05 punkman but you should try sqlite when you get a chance, it's good stuff
06:05 punkman (for some other project that is)
06:05 RagnarDanneskjol .dump
06:05 deedBot time=1411812358 LAST_BUNDLE_TIME=1411812025 elapsed=333
06:05 deedBot TRACKING: BUNDLE_PENDING-12e5euoDVvFGoS2V2QY1CB1mn97ETfVfSM.txt = (address = 12e5euoDVvFGoS2V2QY1CB1mn97ETfVfSM) (mtime = 1411812018) (ctime = 1411812025)
06:05 deedBot DEEDBOT_CHAN=#cex-squawk ERROR_CHAN=MolokoDesk INTERVAL=3600
06:05 deedBot Undefined offset: 2 deedBot.php LINE 1860 Sat 2014-Sep-27 08:31:53 UTC (1 errors)
06:05 deedBot (switching DEEDBOT_CHAN from #cex-squawk to #bitcoin-assets)
06:06 MolokoDesk deedBot needs to be.. ok. yeah, told that it's now operating in this channel using .dump
06:06 RagnarDanneskjol .balance
06:06 deedBot deedBot BTC available balance: 0.00140000 in wallet 1NTSD9jVvumurTotaW7Crqe5DfRxBrJzqu
↖
06:06 deedBot deedBot unconfirmed sent: -0.00011000
06:06 MolokoDesk i may use SQLite instead of mySQL eventuall.
06:06 MolokoDesk y
06:07 * MolokoDesk checks to see if SQLite is already installed.
06:07 MolokoDesk postalrocket
06:07 MolokoDesk oops
06:08 MolokoDesk wrong window.
06:08 deedBot Deed bundle published to filename: 322765-12e5euoDVvFGoS2V2QY1CB1mn97ETfVfSM.txt
06:08 deedBot see: http://www.postalrocket.com/DEEDS/?FORM=x&SORT=x
06:08 assbot DEEDS
06:09 MolokoDesk gosh. it is installed.
06:11 punkman they have pretty good docs too http://www.sqlite.org/docs.html
06:11 assbot SQLite Documentation
06:12 RagnarDanneskjol !up MolokoDesk
06:12 RagnarDanneskjol !up deedBot
06:13 RagnarDanneskjol hey punkman, this is my friend MolokoDesk - do you mind rating him so he can self voice?
06:14 punkman ;;rate MolokoDesk 1 made deedbot
06:14 gribble Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user MolokoDesk has been recorded.
06:14 RagnarDanneskjol yhank
06:16 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3177 @ 0.00074943 = 2.3809 BTC [-]
06:18 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2050 @ 0.00074943 = 1.5363 BTC [-]
06:21 MolokoDesk (well. so far none of the command line commands work in sqlite on a linux box with RatingSystem.db listed as the "main" database. won't show the tables etc.
06:23 punkman are you using sqlite3?
06:23 MolokoDesk oh. that's because sqlite destroyed the file when I opened it with sqlite.
06:23 bounce sounds useful
06:23 MolokoDesk no. it's 2.8.17 I don't admin this box so I can't change that.
06:24 MolokoDesk I'm sure this totally works if you're used to using it.
06:24 punkman and it destroyed the file? that sounds improbable
06:24 punkman you probably have sqlite3 installed as well
06:26 MolokoDesk sqlite> open ?RatingSystem.db?;
06:26 MolokoDesk SQL error: near "open": syntax error
06:27 MolokoDesk it's like it thinks it's opening a new database with that name and zeros the file.
06:31 MolokoDesk laff. nevermind. I was in the wrong directory, so it was, in fact, creating the database file.
06:34 MolokoDesk ok. got it. sqlite3 RatingSystem.db then .output FOO.txt then .dump .quit cat FOO.txt
06:34 MolokoDesk now I have the SQL command file to create the database.
06:34 RagnarDanneskjol !down MolokoDesk
06:35 MolokoDesk ok.
06:36 MolokoDesk anyway, I don't wanna spam a bunch of newb sqlite3 agony here. Thanks for the suggestion regarding a new tool.
06:39 bounce how's your command of SQL in general?
06:42 MolokoDesk I've been doing it for a long time off and on. since like uh... 1980s
06:42 MolokoDesk it's probably a turing-complete language, though I've never used it that way.
06:43 MolokoDesk also one needs to know about various exploits that can get through various "...real_sql_string()" filters
06:43 MolokoDesk and a buncha other stuff.
06:43 RagnarDanneskjol !up deedBot
06:43 bounce it is if you include the recursion extensions. how about relational algebra?
06:44 MolokoDesk yeah, I'm kind of a math head, SQL looks sort of like COBOL or something. it works.
06:44 MolokoDesk I use regular expressions frequently.
06:44 xmj RagnarDanneskjol: haha for downing him and failing
06:45 RagnarDanneskjol heh
06:45 MolokoDesk knowing when to use various joins and such to reduce the computational load of searches or relations between tables.
06:45 MolokoDesk when to index.
06:45 bounce plenty people using "sql" turn out to've little inklink of the theory backing the thing and so aren't very good at using it what it's for--expressing relations between data. then you end up with a glorified key/value store, which is a waste of all that complexity. such people think mysql is a good idea.
06:46 MolokoDesk oh yeah, designing the database to reflect how it's going to be used and the semantics of the data and the relations between the tables etc.
06:47 MolokoDesk there are a lot of high level skills involved that wouldn't be reflected in the language reference card.
06:47 punkman bounce, and people that know a lot of the theory tend to come up with shitty schemas
06:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42441 @ 0.0007537 = 31.9878 BTC [+] {4}
06:48 MolokoDesk heh.there are conflicts of interest having to do with actually having to write and maintain a program. Many developers have no long term relationship with the results of their work, so they're concerned with optmizing return on their time with a customer they're probably only going to work with once.
06:48 MolokoDesk so you get this quick and dirty code that's kind of awful in such a case.
06:49 MolokoDesk some people get paid for coding instead of thinking.
06:49 MolokoDesk essentially.
06:49 bounce some people even get paid too much to write good code, so they write shitty code instead. too expensive to do it right.
06:50 MolokoDesk open source may have remedied that culturally. If everyone is going to see your code it matters what it does, how it does it and what it looks like.
06:50 bounce still plenty of awful open source code Out There
06:51 punkman not awful is the exception
06:51 MolokoDesk there are all kinds of oblique proverbs about commercial software development like: "good, fast and cheap, choose any two"
06:51 punkman like sqlite :P
06:53 MolokoDesk there's relative awful and absolute awful. Absolute awful would be something that does a join using a loop and a bunch of separate lookups. You'll see people who use declarative languages and aren't aware of the judo available in SQL. They often have no idea what the computer is actually doing, just what the language constructs accomplish in terms of final output.
06:53 bounce two things I dislike about sqlite really. its lack of type checking, and it having become a bit of a hype, a "must have" in certain circles.
06:54 punkman who hypes sqlite?
06:54 MolokoDesk another uh delusion, I guess, is that SQL is supposed to make it easier to program. Every few years there's some software putsch that claims "you'll never have to program again, our language is so user-friendly and intuitive" I think SQL was originally promoted that way. It was going to be some 4th generation language.
06:54 MolokoDesk code generator products.
06:59 MolokoDesk http://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/ you may find this amusing. I hope this is the one I'm thinking of. it gets increasingly gnarly in describing these computer-science diasters intrinsic to php.
06:59 assbot PHP: a fractal of baddesign / fuzzy notepad
06:59 MolokoDesk I use php a lot though, as a sketchpad language for rapid prototyping. it lets one do a lot without thinking about the details.
06:59 MolokoDesk it's very weakly-typed.
06:59 MolokoDesk I think it has implicit type conversion inconsistencies too.
07:00 deedBot (One hour since last deed bundle scan: Sat 2014-Sep-27 11:00:27 UTC)
07:01 punkman best to minimize the number of lines deedbot prints
07:02 MolokoDesk this is verbose deedBot. nothing but a terse summary of what it decided about the contract in your pastebin bundle at the beginning, and an announcement of where it publishes the hourly bundles will show eventually/soon/next
07:03 MolokoDesk the cuckoo clock announcement at the top of the hour... I'll turn that off now. and reload the bot. if nobody's waiting for a bundle to track to the blockchain.
07:03 RagnarDanneskjol noone's waiting
07:06 punkman mm some rain, finally
07:07 punkman tea time
07:07 MolokoDesk .dump
07:07 RagnarDanneskjol !up deedBot
07:08 MolokoDesk .dump
07:08 deedBot time=1411816106 LAST_BUNDLE_TIME=1411815600 elapsed=506
07:08 deedBot DEEDBOT_CHAN=#bitcoin-assets ERROR_CHAN=MolokoDesk INTERVAL=3600
07:08 MolokoDesk just wanted to check something: that you can't set the main channel to a nick.
07:08 MolokoDesk (you can't)
07:11 punkman .deed http://dpaste.com/3WT0JW5
07:11 assbot dpaste: 3WT0JW5
07:11 punkman .deed http://pastebin.com/7ZHFZCPE
07:11 assbot -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 What words say does not last. - Pastebin.com
07:11 deedBot KeyID: 33588BE08B232B13 deed with 1 signatory.
07:11 deedBot deed keyID: 33588BE08B232B13 trust: 8 nick: punkman (valid and scheduled for next bundle)
07:13 cazalla betting league tonight BingoBoingo?
07:14 cazalla panthers v bulldogs big game
07:23 RagnarDanneskjol !down deedBot
07:23 RagnarDanneskjol !up deedBot
07:23 RagnarDanneskjol !up RagnarsBitch
07:24 MolokoDesk it handled an SHA1?
07:24 MolokoDesk hmn.
07:25 MolokoDesk I wonder if you created a collision with two deeds that close together.
07:26 MolokoDesk I probably need to add the queue we were discussing, ragnar.
07:27 MolokoDesk or a refractory period where it rejects a barrage of fast deed requests.
07:27 RagnarsBitch Its always done sha1 fine
07:27 RagnarsBitch What is prob
07:27 MolokoDesk I think the sha1 test case I was using wasn't in WoT at the time is why I've never noticed one before.
07:28 RagnarsBitch I think you were. Still what's the issue?
07:28 MolokoDesk I think if it's in the process of waiting for gribble and you dump another incoming deed bundle, the unbundler is asynchronous and can stomp on the chain of gribble dialogs and force a new one to start.
07:29 MolokoDesk the obvious solution is to put the pastebin tokens into a queue and handle them one at a time regardless of how fast they come in.
07:29 RagnarsBitch Again, where do you see it as an issue
07:30 MolokoDesk if someone sets the expiration time on a pastebin to 1 minute that might not be so swell. Nobody should do that though.
07:30 RagnarsBitch Last deed is fine
07:30 MolokoDesk It may have just been an issue. what if two people just happen to want to .deed something at the same instant?
07:30 RagnarsBitch Not a big concern
07:30 MolokoDesk or someone writes a bot to spew a few deeds they have laying around.
07:31 RagnarsBitch well that is a gribbl prob too
07:31 MolokoDesk notice that punkman did 3WT0JW5 then did almost immediately 7ZHFZCPE
07:32 MolokoDesk and didn't get an acknowledgement from deedBot about the first one ... 3WT0JW5
07:32 MolokoDesk or... was deedBot not voiced?
07:32 RagnarsBitch Right, first one is like a popup text thingy
07:32 RagnarsBitch It couldn't be read
07:32 MolokoDesk oh duh. it's dpaste not pastebin my bad.
07:32 RagnarsBitch Yea
07:32 MolokoDesk ok.
07:33 MolokoDesk thanks, shows how I skim text in IRC.
07:33 MolokoDesk I wouldn't run a trading exchange without an incoming queue.
07:33 MolokoDesk you'd lose orders.
07:34 MolokoDesk this is more like a xerox machine that signs in blood.
07:34 MolokoDesk if it doesn't work the first time you make another copy.
07:34 MolokoDesk nah, I'm going to fix that.
07:35 MolokoDesk it creeps me out that there's no incoming queue.
07:35 MolokoDesk dunno when though.
07:35 MolokoDesk ok. it's stopped raining here and I have some chores to run out there.
07:35 MolokoDesk back in a while.
07:35 RagnarsBitch Take your time
07:43 RagnarsBitch punkman - if you wanna see deed confirmation, need to keep bot voiced for next hour. Awaiting direction on who's to register/ hold the keys for it
07:51 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.14210001 = 0.5684 BTC [-] {3}
07:54 punkman !up deedBot
08:00 deedBot SPEND_TO_UNSPENT_BUNDLES: SPENDING ENABLED = 1
08:00 deedBot BTC SPENT: amount_withdrawn = 0.00011000 TRACKING: BUNDLE_PENDING-1EURX82WPk2Yv6TLQMXGxwYJpaUsDs6tvj.txt
08:00 punkman .dump
08:00 deedBot time=1411819259 LAST_BUNDLE_TIME=1411819216 elapsed=43
08:00 deedBot TRACKING: BUNDLE_PENDING-1EURX82WPk2Yv6TLQMXGxwYJpaUsDs6tvj.txt = (address = 1EURX82WPk2Yv6TLQMXGxwYJpaUsDs6tvj) (mtime = 1411819202) (ctime = 1411819216)
08:00 deedBot DEEDBOT_CHAN=#bitcoin-assets ERROR_CHAN=MolokoDesk INTERVAL=3600
08:05 deedBot Deed bundle published to filename: 322774-1EURX82WPk2Yv6TLQMXGxwYJpaUsDs6tvj.txt
08:05 deedBot see: http://www.postalrocket.com/DEEDS/?FORM=x&SORT=x
08:05 assbot DEEDS
08:07 punkman ;;balance 1EURX82WPk2Yv6TLQMXGxwYJpaUsDs6tvj
08:07 gribble 0.0001
~ 1 hours 3 minutes ~
09:10 MolokoDesk !up deedBot
09:21 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17597 @ 0.00075121 = 13.219 BTC [-]
~ 22 minutes ~
09:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21850 @ 0.00075383 = 16.4712 BTC [+] {2}
~ 32 minutes ~
10:15 mircea_popescu myriadgetsmehard: ben you are acting like the dinosaurs i get enough shit from man :) << the age old solution tried first by the infant confronted with the unimpressed adults ? make an infant support group!
10:16 mircea_popescu this is why beatings are so important for education : people will do the right thing just as soon as all apparent alternatives have been exhausted. if children are isolated and beaten into submission, you wil have poetry and scientific research.
10:16 mircea_popescu if children are allowed to form support groups from reality, you will have reddit.
10:17 mircea_popescu the problem being, of course, that once this fork has been passed there's no way back. there isn't a phase transition from manchild seeking support from reality to adult. there's just a choice, at a narrow band of time during preadolescence somewhere.
10:18 mircea_popescu if you learn japanese when you're 1 yo, you're a native speaker. if you don't, you might be able to learn some semblance later on, but for most people it'll never happen, and for a tiny minority it will still overwhelmingly never be as good.
10:20 mircea_popescu once this support seeking habit forms, overwhelming it is nigh on impossible, and in any case overwhelming it would require the one thing that its existence prevents : a working mind.
10:21 mircea_popescu dub: get back to me when you've stood in a cold noisy DC on a con call to mumbai for 15 hours <<< virgin after her first time : "hey, fucking is kinda fun!" old whore : "get back to me after you've had to clean two dozen sailor pricks honey"
10:26 mircea_popescu asciilifeform: also lol, mircea_popescu getting his boxes off dhcp just today...? < no, actually, "you had one job" woman forgot to pay netbill, ended up plugging their wifi into one of my spares so they can has interwebs they don't deserve.
10:27 mircea_popescu dignork: they do have something commercial, but I did not look too close <<< then people wonder why there's a bubble. why hello sir, when people can't be bothered with even looking at the "products" their name is so bad, i suspek perhaps it may be the case there's going to be problems achieving cashflow. just a hunch.
10:28 mircea_popescu but don't mind me, by all means, please continue, advertise to the social media crowd, that's where the power is lmao.
10:28 mircea_popescu o hey! MolokoDesk hit me.
10:29 mircea_popescu lol wunderwaffle should totally be a thing.
10:29 chetty http://www.caseyresearch.com/cdd/lessons-argentine
10:29 assbot Lessons from the Argentine | Casey Research
10:29 mircea_popescu jesus everyone's been busy on a friday night! how am i to have a lyf with you peoples!
10:30 mircea_popescu chetty are these the shills for that desert project selling $500k houses on land that costs $500k per square mile ?
10:30 dignork mircea_popescu: it is a thing: http://lurkmore.to/%D0%92%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%84%D0%BB%D1%8F
10:30 assbot Lurkmore
10:31 MolokoDesk !up deedBot
10:31 mircea_popescu dignork cool then!
10:31 mircea_popescu http://lurkmore.so/images/thumb/b/b1/82mmmoto.jpg/300px-82mmmoto.jpg ahahh
10:31 mircea_popescu gatling tank!
10:31 kakobrekla http://lurkmore.so/images/1/1b/Rasmerimeet.jpg
10:31 kakobrekla dicktank
10:31 MolokoDesk checking to see if deedBot meets the "it has to work" criterion.
10:32 mircea_popescu dignork "Где Кошевой?! Пионэpы вундеpваффе пpитащили!" < ?
10:32 mircea_popescu MolokoDesk got the command list anywhere ? does it have funds ?
10:32 MolokoDesk what's the wonder-wafer meme about?
10:32 MolokoDesk nevermind, I'll do my homework on wonderwafer.
10:33 dignork mircea_popescu: some fido period reference, i didn't have a computer then
10:33 mircea_popescu o wow wunderwaffe mockery from ww2 ? definitely older than i thought
10:33 MolokoDesk it has funds, ragnar put in the latest tranche, I put in the first tranche. a few bucks.
10:33 MolokoDesk .balance
10:33 deedBot deedBot BTC available balance: 0.00129000 in wallet 1NTSD9jVvumurTotaW7Crqe5DfRxBrJzqu
10:33 MolokoDesk or uh milliBTC.
10:33 MolokoDesk waffe. ah.
10:33 mircea_popescu MolokoDesk ok, and what are the commands ?
10:34 MolokoDesk just .deed pastebin-link
10:34 MolokoDesk there are some diagnostics.
10:34 MolokoDesk .dump
10:34 deedBot time=1411828456 LAST_BUNDLE_TIME=1411826420 elapsed=2036
10:34 deedBot DEEDBOT_CHAN=#bitcoin-assets ERROR_CHAN=MolokoDesk INTERVAL=3600
10:34 mircea_popescu and .balance apparently ?
10:34 kakobrekla <mircea_popescu> o wow wunderwaffe mockery from ww2 ? definitely older than i thought < yes, germans DO have the best scripts in porn.
10:34 MolokoDesk that will probably go away .dump it switches the channel to the primary notification channel.
10:34 MolokoDesk yeah.
10:35 MolokoDesk there are some temporary commands to make it join the channel, but I'll set #bitcoin-assets as the primary channel and that will never be needed.
10:35 MolokoDesk invite works too, but I may shut that off to prevent botjacking.
10:35 chetty mircea_popescu, not sure about their land stuff, some little I saw did look a bit Gaults Gulchy but guy does make some decent observations about Argentina in general
10:35 mircea_popescu .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=jBLJUfRA
10:35 deedBot KeyID: 8A736F0E2FB7B452 deed with 1 signatory.
10:35 deedBot deed keyID: 8A736F0E2FB7B452 trust: 27 nick: mircea_popescu (valid and scheduled for next bundle)
10:36 mircea_popescu o hey.
10:36 MolokoDesk it's still mildly verbose.
10:36 MolokoDesk .dump
10:36 deedBot time=1411828577 LAST_BUNDLE_TIME=1411826420 elapsed=2157
10:36 deedBot DEEDBOT_CHAN=#bitcoin-assets ERROR_CHAN=MolokoDesk INTERVAL=3600
10:36 mircea_popescu someone else pls put a something signed in
10:36 mircea_popescu quickly!
10:36 MolokoDesk when elapsed>= interval it bundles and spends and tracks to blockchain.
10:37 MolokoDesk the filename uses block height since blockID seems arbitary and duplicated.
10:37 MolokoDesk most/all blockchain tools on the web use block height
10:37 mircea_popescu problem is you don't know the block height when you save the file, do you ?
10:38 MolokoDesk no the file is saved named BUNDLE_UNSPENT-1BITCOINADDRESS.txt
10:38 MolokoDesk when it's time to spend which is usuallly the next 60 seconds it changes the name to BUNDLE_PENDING...
10:38 mircea_popescu aha
10:39 mircea_popescu aite.
10:39 MolokoDesk and when the blockheight confirm comes in it's changed to 34234-1BITCOINADDRESS.txt and published to a web-accessible directory
10:39 MolokoDesk and announced.
10:39 mircea_popescu and if there's a block reorg ?
10:39 MolokoDesk doom
10:39 mircea_popescu no good.
10:40 mircea_popescu that's why i wanted the txid. txids are fixed per tx
10:40 MolokoDesk ok. we need a definition of what the absolute location of a block is.
10:40 mircea_popescu irrespective of the block they end up in
10:40 MolokoDesk I noticed that inclusion in an orphan block would mess this up... there are often several blocks with the same blockID, at least using some tools.
10:40 mircea_popescu it was never a question of block id, whatever that is
10:40 dignork .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=GNuUsAjF
10:40 deedBot KeyID: 7E1DC6F7BDD75CD6 deed with 1 signatory.
10:40 deedBot deed keyID: 7E1DC6F7BDD75CD6 trust: nick: (seems bogus - Discarded)
10:40 MolokoDesk searching the blockchain backwards for the first occurrence of the address would do it.
10:40 mircea_popescu ;;gettrust assbot dignork
10:40 gribble Currently authenticated from hostmask dignork!~dignork@gateway/tor-sasl/dignork. Trust relationship from user assbot to user dignork: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 4 via 4 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=dignork | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=dignork | Rated since: Fri Oct 18 12:20:18 2013
10:41 mircea_popescu MolokoDesk why did it discard ?
10:41 MolokoDesk the blockchain tracker I'm using only flags confirmation when the block is on the main chain.
10:41 mircea_popescu chains can and do reorg.
10:41 MolokoDesk uh, whose keysig is that?
10:41 dignork mircea_popescu: this key is chained, not the same key that gribble knows i suppose
10:41 mircea_popescu dignork ah, use same pls ?
10:42 mircea_popescu MolokoDesk i guess, but why make it fluffy ?
10:42 mircea_popescu you get a tx id once you make the payment, that's invariant, use it.
10:42 MolokoDesk ;;gpg info -getkey 7E1DC6F7BDD75CD6
10:42 gribble (gpg info [--key|--address] <nick>) -- Returns the registration details of registered user <nick>. If '--key' option is given, interpret <nick> as a GPG key ID.
10:42 mircea_popescu why depend on things outside of your control.
10:42 MolokoDesk ;;gpg info -key 7E1DC6F7BDD75CD6
10:42 gribble (gpg info [--key|--address] <nick>) -- Returns the registration details of registered user <nick>. If '--key' option is given, interpret <nick> as a GPG key ID.
10:42 mircea_popescu lol
10:42 mircea_popescu ;;gpg info --key 7E1DC6F7BDD75CD6
10:42 gribble No such user registered.
10:42 mircea_popescu but he already said used different key
10:42 MolokoDesk oops
10:42 MolokoDesk that's why
10:42 mircea_popescu yup
10:43 MolokoDesk still wondered what deedBot actually saw
10:43 mircea_popescu yeah. okay.
10:43 MolokoDesk it rejects for assbot level1+level2 trust <2
10:43 mircea_popescu that's no good.
10:43 mircea_popescu a) l2 = 1 should be enough ; b) l1 = 1 and l2 = 0 is stil valid.
10:44 MolokoDesk oh. it only has to be one?
10:44 MolokoDesk ok.
10:44 mircea_popescu make it reject for !((l1 > 0)||(l2 > 0))
10:44 MolokoDesk maybe it's doing that. let me look at the code briefly.
10:44 MolokoDesk if that was your spec that's what it's doing.
10:44 MolokoDesk lemme certify this. looking.
10:44 mircea_popescu so as to identify : http://blockchain.info/tx/26591d8fc00356374e63320f1c6b5539947300378f84ad8063ef92740823fd95 << consider that. the tx is identified, whether it ends up in this block or that.
10:44 assbot Bitcoin Transaction 26591d8fc00356374e63320f1c6b5539947300378f84ad8063ef92740823fd95
10:45 mircea_popescu the hash in question you get from whatever agent you use to broadcast the tx
10:45 MolokoDesk if($SIGSDONE[$DEED_KEYID]['trust']>0)
10:45 MolokoDesk ok. it's 1
10:45 mircea_popescu works.
10:45 MolokoDesk that's early code. also I was thinking assbot voice.
10:46 MolokoDesk considered using transactionID
10:46 kakobrekla <mircea_popescu> make it reject for !((l1 > 0)||(l2 > 0)) < l1+12 > 0 is simpler
10:47 mircea_popescu kakobrekla you are right.
10:47 MolokoDesk it's already summing aggregate trust.
10:47 mircea_popescu pls sign something put it in ?
10:47 kakobrekla also different though
10:47 kakobrekla as one level can be negative
10:47 kakobrekla and the fucks up the other
10:47 kakobrekla then*
10:47 kakobrekla so dunno
10:47 kakobrekla i use what mp wrote iirc
10:47 MolokoDesk oh. that's signfiicant.
10:48 mircea_popescu MolokoDesk notrly.
10:48 mircea_popescu the case where assbot trusts someone the broader b-a does not is quite the failure mode anyway.
10:48 mircea_popescu we'll be having bigger problems.
10:48 mircea_popescu so this'd count as a canary.
10:48 punkman mircea_popescu: I posted a deed earlier, http://www.postalrocket.com/DEEDS/
10:48 assbot DEEDS
10:48 MolokoDesk are there cases where someone who should have access to deeds has a negative rating relative to assbot and assbotdirects?
10:49 mircea_popescu MolokoDesk nope
10:49 mircea_popescu punkman wait is this a concurrent implementation or what ?!
10:50 punkman no that's deedbot's
10:50 mircea_popescu o hey. spiffy
10:50 kakobrekla whichever is goin to be it should prolly be consistent with assbot or what
10:50 dignork .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=wEfSrr2E
10:50 deedBot KeyID: 8334BB7B5BDFA126 deed with 1 signatory.
10:50 deedBot deed keyID: 8334BB7B5BDFA126 trust: 5 nick: dignork (valid and scheduled for next bundle)
10:50 mircea_popescu MolokoDesk the web interface looks splendid.
10:50 punkman MolokoDesk: when does a deed have 2 signatories?
10:51 MolokoDesk if a bunch of people have cryposigned it. I'm counting the signatures.
10:51 mircea_popescu .dump
10:51 deedBot time=1411829476 LAST_BUNDLE_TIME=1411826420 elapsed=3056
10:51 deedBot DEEDBOT_CHAN=#bitcoin-assets ERROR_CHAN=MolokoDesk INTERVAL=3600
10:51 MolokoDesk I had considered validating all the signatures.
10:52 MolokoDesk it requires peeling off the ascii armor and replacing gaps in the delimiters. it's kind of tedious.
10:52 kakobrekla .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=d2gP5rh8
10:52 deedBot KeyID: 27AF75321F2489E8 deed with 1 signatory.
10:52 deedBot deed keyID: 27AF75321F2489E8 trust: 18 nick: kakobrekla (valid and scheduled for next bundle)
10:52 kakobrekla can you make it also work with dpaste
10:52 dignork so if anybody has to deal with multiple subkeys, proper syntax is "gpg -u 8334BB7B5BDFA126! --clearsign file" , notice the key>!< notation, seems to be not so documented
10:52 mircea_popescu MolokoDesk maybe with a later upgrade. atm not useful or wanted.
10:52 mircea_popescu dignork ppl on mpex ocasionally have this issue. the other approach is to mark a key as default.
10:53 mircea_popescu kakobrekla im sure it takes any url ?
10:53 kakobrekla a ok
10:53 punkman it doesn't
10:53 mircea_popescu why not ?
10:53 MolokoDesk it's only pastebin right now. I can loosten that contraint.
10:53 mircea_popescu any url works.
10:53 MolokoDesk or I can spell loosen correctly.
10:54 mircea_popescu this is only intended to be used from here, by voiced people.
10:54 mircea_popescu so not really all that exposed to random spam
10:54 MolokoDesk ok.
10:54 MolokoDesk people will have to use raw= for pastebin then.
10:54 kakobrekla .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=d4u0BXQU
10:54 deedBot KeyID: 27AF75321F2489E8 deed with 1 signatory.
10:54 deedBot deed keyID: 27AF75321F2489E8 trust: 18 nick: kakobrekla (valid and scheduled for next bundle)
10:54 MolokoDesk it's parsing out the token in non-raw pastebin references.
10:55 kakobrekla so much for random spam!
10:55 MolokoDesk .dump
10:55 deedBot time=1411829714 LAST_BUNDLE_TIME=1411826420 elapsed=3294
10:55 deedBot DEEDBOT_CHAN=#bitcoin-assets ERROR_CHAN=MolokoDesk INTERVAL=3600
10:56 MolokoDesk dpaste is doable. any URL is doable.
10:56 mircea_popescu coolness.
10:56 MolokoDesk I'll make it indiscriminate and see how that goes.
10:56 kakobrekla a little discrimination never hurt anybody
10:56 MolokoDesk there maybe ram limits to filesize. a 1 gig file can overflow the php address space.
10:56 mircea_popescu MolokoDesk : can all the data published on webpage be bundled say daily into a tar and linked somewhere for dld ?
10:57 MolokoDesk oh wait, I'm not doing it that way.
10:57 MolokoDesk file goes to gpg
10:57 MolokoDesk oh yes I am. I have to hash the file to make the bitcoin address.
10:57 MolokoDesk so it has to fit in memory.
10:57 mircea_popescu don't put anything of unknown size into gpg.
10:57 MolokoDesk heh. buffer overflow attack?
10:57 mircea_popescu a hardcoded 64kb limit should be fine btw.
10:58 mircea_popescu this is intended for human readable input, not dumping of indiscriminate data.
10:58 mircea_popescu if people have mbs to do, let them do a cert and insert the cert.
10:59 mircea_popescu actually, not just fine. it's a requirement post facto. MolokoDesk discard anything in the url past the 64kb.
10:59 MolokoDesk truncate, or reject?
10:59 mircea_popescu truncate.
10:59 MolokoDesk head -c64000 file.ext
10:59 chetty .deed http://pastebin.com/5hjTV4yg
10:59 assbot Eulora may have a release when the goalposts stop moving! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNAT - Pastebin.com
10:59 deedBot No signed deeds were found in: http://pastebin.com/5hjTV4yg
10:59 assbot Eulora may have a release when the goalposts stop moving! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNAT - Pastebin.com
11:00 mircea_popescu i have been derping for long enough about how reform in the modern state shoudl consist of a fixed number of characters for all laws, and if you want a new one must erase an old one.
11:00 MolokoDesk there may be other ways to do that... wget, whatever.
11:00 deedBot SPEND_TO_UNSPENT_BUNDLES: SPENDING ENABLED = 1
11:00 mircea_popescu time to put that idea to work. the largest last will&testament you can have is 10k words. figure it out.
11:00 deedBot BTC SPENT: amount_withdrawn = 0.00011000 TRACKING: BUNDLE_PENDING-17nXdzdWdrLP5nqMJxJGC7ANqWQkqL2G5N.txt
11:00 MolokoDesk .balance
11:00 deedBot deedBot BTC available balance: 0.00118000 in wallet 1NTSD9jVvumurTotaW7Crqe5DfRxBrJzqu
11:00 deedBot deedBot unconfirmed sent: -0.00011000
11:00 MolokoDesk .dump
11:00 deedBot time=1411830050 LAST_BUNDLE_TIME=1411830029 elapsed=21
11:00 deedBot TRACKING: BUNDLE_PENDING-17nXdzdWdrLP5nqMJxJGC7ANqWQkqL2G5N.txt = (address = 17nXdzdWdrLP5nqMJxJGC7ANqWQkqL2G5N) (mtime = 1411830022) (ctime = 1411830029)
11:00 deedBot DEEDBOT_CHAN=#bitcoin-assets ERROR_CHAN=MolokoDesk INTERVAL=3600
11:00 deedBot rename(,): No such file or directory deedBot.php LINE 1634 Sat 2014-Sep-27 14:59:57 UTC (3 errors)
11:00 mircea_popescu chetty need the raw
11:01 mircea_popescu chetty http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=5hjTV4yg << use that url
11:01 MolokoDesk it should have gotten the raw from the unraw pastebin link. there's a special for that.
11:02 mircea_popescu MolokoDesk useful, good idea.
11:02 punkman it didn't like the text before the sig
11:02 chetty .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=5hjTV4yg
11:02 MolokoDesk there's no -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED DOCUMENT---- header on that.
11:02 mircea_popescu punkman so you two been working together on this or what ?
11:02 MolokoDesk it ignores pure signatures
11:02 dignork !up deedBot
11:02 punkman mircea_popescu: nope
11:02 mircea_popescu chetty yeah seems you missed the header.
11:03 mircea_popescu punkman oh the logs. nm me :)
11:03 punkman but I'll write a verifier for the deeds
11:04 chetty .deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=yYbT4Tiu
11:04 mircea_popescu what's a verifier do ?
11:04 deedBot KeyID: BD7C5558DD9EFA14 deed with 1 signatory.
11:04 deedBot deed keyID: BD7C5558DD9EFA14 trust: 5 nick: chetty (valid and scheduled for next bundle)
11:04 punkman mircea_popescu: it drinks from the faucet :P
11:04 chetty I learn slow, but I learn
11:04 mircea_popescu knock yourself out :)
11:04 MolokoDesk it makes sure I'm really computing the hash address properly. If I verify that myself, and I'm making a mistake, I'll just be making the same mistake in the verifier.
11:04 punkman also, to make sure this is verifiable
11:04 mircea_popescu good idea pman
11:06 punkman ;;tslb
11:06 gribble Time since last block: 2 minutes and 11 seconds
11:07 punkman ;;balance 17nXdzdWdrLP5nqMJxJGC7ANqWQkqL2G5N
11:07 gribble 0.0001
11:07 MolokoDesk .deed //http://pastebin.com/BrkxYBrh
11:07 MolokoDesk !up deedBot
11:07 mircea_popescu / ?
11:08 MolokoDesk .deed //http://pastebin.com/QzPGJbj6 (ALF,RD)
11:08 MolokoDesk interesting.
11:08 mircea_popescu wut ?
11:08 kakobrekla .deed { :; }; echo 'ble'
11:08 MolokoDesk there can be issues if gribble dies in the middle of a transaction
11:09 MolokoDesk the gribble dialog is the gnarliest part.
11:09 mircea_popescu mark it as unchecked and redo later ?
11:09 MolokoDesk I'll look to see what's in the queue
11:09 mircea_popescu ;;tslb
11:09 gribble Time since last block: 5 minutes and 43 seconds
11:10 mircea_popescu asciilifeform: prayer mill ? << shit boys, there you go revealing supersecret eulora later game content ;/
11:11 MolokoDesk I'm retaining the microsecond timestamps of gribble requests and their fulfillment so... I can implement a timeout reset if gribble dies.
11:11 MolokoDesk ohhh.
11:11 MolokoDesk ok
11:12 MolokoDesk gribble bans anyone for 5 minutes if they make more than 12 requests in a 60 second interval. that probably happened while deedBot wasn't voice.
11:12 mircea_popescu can you practically limit work to that volume ?
11:12 MolokoDesk there's no appeal against that. I'll have to pace requests by any of various methods.
11:12 mircea_popescu i can appeal it but i'd rather not if it's not absolutely necessary.
11:12 MolokoDesk an incoming URL queue is the most reasonable.
11:12 kakobrekla this has turned into brain surgery
11:13 mircea_popescu in general the 60 minutes of a block would currently take a maximum of 720 deeds at that rate. unless we're actually processing 500...
11:13 MolokoDesk yeah, I wasn't going to suggest any mods to gribble even if nanotube would do them because everyone else's stuff would stop working.
11:13 mircea_popescu kakobrekla some people like to work, unlike slovens :D
11:13 MolokoDesk for example, the information about which KEYID or NICK you're asking about disappears if it's not found in WoT. Gribble just says not found there.
11:13 mircea_popescu MolokoDesk can always jus get an exception ; always a great idea to only ask for exceptions when you need them
11:13 MolokoDesk so I already have to pace and sequence the request to gribble.
11:14 punkman MolokoDesk: why wasn't 17nXdzdWdrLP5nqMJxJGC7ANqWQkqL2G5N published?
11:14 MolokoDesk ok. if gribble can grant deedBot unlimited requests thats the solution.
11:14 MolokoDesk it hasn't appeared on the main blockchain yet.
11:14 MolokoDesk .dump
11:14 deedBot time=1411830877 LAST_BUNDLE_TIME=1411830029 elapsed=848
11:14 deedBot TRACKING: BUNDLE_PENDING-17nXdzdWdrLP5nqMJxJGC7ANqWQkqL2G5N.txt = (address = 17nXdzdWdrLP5nqMJxJGC7ANqWQkqL2G5N) (mtime = 1411830022) (ctime = 1411830029)
11:14 deedBot DEEDBOT_CHAN=#bitcoin-assets ERROR_CHAN=MolokoDesk INTERVAL=3600
11:14 deedBot rename(,): No such file or directory deedBot.php LINE 1634 Sat 2014-Sep-27 15:02:16 UTC (6 errors)
11:14 MolokoDesk ew
11:14 MolokoDesk haw.
11:14 punkman says 2 confirms
11:14 MolokoDesk unlink()
11:14 MolokoDesk interesting.
11:15 mircea_popescu MolokoDesk ok. if gribble can grant deedBot unlimited requests thats the solution. << that's not the solution yet. it wil be the solution once we process a lot of volume. atm the soluition is to queue.
11:15 punkman if there's a lot of volume, best to keep local copy of OTC database
11:15 MolokoDesk queue is more robust against various other collision events. I intend to queue incomings.
11:15 MolokoDesk nobody would run an exchange without queueing orders. you'd lose orders.
11:16 mircea_popescu aite.
11:17 MolokoDesk http://www.postalrocket.com/DEEDS_TEST/wotFreq_01.html messing about with the WoT RatingsSystem.db earlier, punkman.
11:18 punkman I suspected "smooth" as the most common adjective in ratings
11:20 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 718 @ 0.00074943 = 0.5381 BTC [-]
11:20 MolokoDesk deedBot is sniffing the top block once 60 seconds. if a freakishly fast block mining event happens back to back it could miss the inclusion in the block.
11:20 mircea_popescu so if anyone knows anything about growing cactuses, get back to me. i got a tiny something, which i believe is armatocereus godingianus. he seems happy enough and is growing, but the shoots are all spindly. ie, the base like 6 strands each an inch thick, each shot this inch long, 1/8th of an inch wide things.
11:20 MolokoDesk I may have to track back to detect block inclusion in that case.
11:20 mircea_popescu is this how it grows ? is it upset with the light ?
11:20 mircea_popescu MolokoDesk these freakishly fast blocks happen a lot actually.
11:21 mircea_popescu can it sniff the top 6 blocks ?
11:21 bounce what about gloves?
11:21 MolokoDesk etiolation due to low light. also cactus seedlings have cotyledons like most other dicots.
11:21 punkman start sniff from last deed block
11:21 mircea_popescu ^ punkman has it
11:21 MolokoDesk block mining collisions, yeah.
11:22 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 150 @ 0.15508879 = 23.2633 BTC [+] {16}
11:23 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 22 @ 0.15877999 = 3.4932 BTC [+] {2}
11:24 MolokoDesk sure. I was considering looking for block height increments of more than 1 and then scanning back. alternatively, scan backwards to the first block with a date before the incoming file creation date.
11:25 MolokoDesk scanning back would allow the tracking interval to be longer than a minute or 5
11:25 MolokoDesk .time Texas
11:26 MolokoDesk ok. I need to tighten a few things up in deedBot. It's possible that's going to run into October.
11:27 MolokoDesk just a heads up.
11:28 MolokoDesk I think starting from last deed bot would load things down some, doable, but deeds may only be coming in every 6 hours.
11:28 mircea_popescu well hurry up!
11:28 MolokoDesk srsly
11:29 MolokoDesk well, unless we can break it some more today... I can get on this. I've been up rather a while today.
11:30 MolokoDesk any mid-course corrections other than so far?
11:31 mircea_popescu the txid instead of block height ; the queing of gribble requests
11:31 mircea_popescu that seems all realy.
11:31 MolokoDesk !up deedBot
11:31 MolokoDesk oh, are you going to register deedBot with WoT or should I do that or, leave it indeterminate. I can export the keys and give you a copy.
11:32 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 218 @ 0.00446292 = 0.9729 BTC [+] {10}
11:32 MolokoDesk the risk now is that someone will nab the name.
11:32 mircea_popescu is it nickserv reg'd ?
11:32 MolokoDesk yes. oh sure. can't WoT without auth
11:32 MolokoDesk ok. no rush.
11:32 mircea_popescu so it can sit.
11:32 dignork MolokoDesk: somewhat of a hack, but electrum has getaddressbalance function, which returns balance for any address (unlike bitcoind)
11:33 mircea_popescu dignork it also happens to be the correct way to handle this. the "wallet" nonsense still boggles my mind.
11:33 MolokoDesk electrum is the gold standard for this sort of thing (pun intended) but that's a serious dev/admin/maintenance thing on this end. If I had electrum RPC already at the start of this I may have done it that way. it's still on the desirable things to do list.
11:34 MolokoDesk the less reliance on 3rd party APIs the better in most cases.
11:34 MolokoDesk I have fallback capability in the bot but it's not active. I can track with two different website APIs. there's only one wallet, but more can be added.
11:34 mircea_popescu MolokoDesk nah i don't think it's all that desirable. ideally no dependencies etc.
11:35 MolokoDesk it makes it hard to move if it has to co-reside with electrum.
11:35 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 108 @ 0.00501896 = 0.542 BTC [+] {9}
11:36 MolokoDesk also I'd be setting up binary buffers and cryptosigning them and all that. it's a chore.
11:36 * MolokoDesk sounding like a bitcoin dev wuss.
11:37 MolokoDesk ok. I'm out for the day.
11:37 dignork MolokoDesk: you need a local copy of electrum wallet without QT mess, it's a plain python
11:38 dignork alternatively, just hack out the part talking to electrum servers, few pages of python code
11:38 mircea_popescu http://www.postalrocket.com/DEEDS/ << aww not updated.
11:38 assbot DEEDS
11:38 mircea_popescu such a teasing!
11:38 MolokoDesk moving this to python was an intention eventually, that make electrum seem more sensible.
11:38 MolokoDesk yeah, there's a pending item stuck in the queue because it missed (probably) it's block.
11:39 mircea_popescu "Каждая вундервафля выглядит так, что Юнг и Фрейд, обнявшись, заплакали бы от радости." lol not bad
11:39 mircea_popescu MolokoDesk aite see you tomorrow
11:41 dignork mircea_popescu: on a concept level lurkmore is a copy of encyclopedia dramatica, but they do much better job imho
↖
11:41 mircea_popescu ahahaah epic. "every fifth opponent was a cross between a tank with a watchtower and every previous boss"
11:41 mircea_popescu now i gotta play this thing
11:45 mircea_popescu "If the country can continue operating as smoothly as it does for another year, I'll be surprised." << you can tell casey research his bet is on.
11:45 mircea_popescu fucktards these people.
11:46 mircea_popescu why am i even reading this crap, jpg "signatures" and no comment section for crying out loud.
11:48 ben_vulpes <asciilifeform> what is rms holding in the photo? << toe jam?
11:51 mircea_popescu ;;later tell MolokoDesk anyway, the ideal here is to have everything in order to i can put the various sept reports on it.
11:51 gribble The operation succeeded.
11:52 mircea_popescu asciilifeform: as far as anyone can tell - equal to 'c' <<< the idea being that "the speed of light" is not "of light" in any sense other than the champagne is champagne
11:53 mircea_popescu "that's where the limit on interaction debit first became apparent"
11:53 mircea_popescu turns out the universe itself works on a queue
11:59 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.09651464 BTC to 15`116 shares, 7254 satoshi per share
12:00 deedBot SPEND_TO_UNSPENT_BUNDLES: SPENDING ENABLED = 1
12:00 mircea_popescu asciilifeform: lol that turd reads like it was a 'mad libs' product << three steps to take to avoid making any sort of meaningful change : a) stick to obama & the libertard's mickey mouse version of "change" ; b) pretend like disaster is unlikely and so the possibility can be safely ignored while it's not happened yet ; pretend it's "overwhelming" as so best ignored as it happens and shortly thereafter ; c) make sure y
12:00 mircea_popescu ou don't read trilema or any other venue where people who know more than you are likely to call you and your friends idiots.
12:00 deedBot BTC SPENT: amount_withdrawn = 0.00011000 TRACKING: BUNDLE_PENDING-16kWvtsQukxKp8nKY8hSUgca9nm96cFqUC.txt
12:00 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 2.94396928 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 256 satoshi per share
12:00 mircea_popescu o hay deedsy.
12:02 mircea_popescu !up deedBot
12:03 asciilifeform !s lurkmore
12:03 assbot 7 results for 'lurkmore' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=lurkmore
12:04 asciilifeform ^ that thing of beauty - was discussed here in the past...
12:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i am notorious for taking more than one pass through the material to grok it, more than one set of lips on the tool to spill it etc.
12:05 mircea_popescu i'm a multifarian.
12:05 asciilifeform lol
12:05 mircea_popescu anyway, ru version of ed reads like mostly adult male, as opposed to mostly preteen female.
12:06 asciilifeform good eyes - accurate.
12:08 asciilifeform before even i forget - kakobrekla, mircea_popescu - where's my lenat turd mirror ?
12:09 mircea_popescu uh
12:09 mircea_popescu i have that queasy feeling i musta missed something
12:10 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-09-2014#845498
12:10 assbot Logged on 26-09-2014 00:53:22; mircea_popescu: email ill put on trilema
12:10 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-09-2014#845583
12:10 assbot Logged on 26-09-2014 01:50:54; asciilifeform: http://64.85.171.71/lenat-leaks.tar.gz
12:10 mircea_popescu oh! damned.
12:10 mircea_popescu brb.
12:10 mircea_popescu i was like "let others hit it first ill go later to not herdkil the server"
12:10 mircea_popescu then promptly forgot.
12:11 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3597 @ 0.00074835 = 2.6918 BTC [-]
12:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the how & why of the whole thing: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-09-2014#845694
12:12 assbot Logged on 26-09-2014 03:11:57; asciilifeform: there are two versions of the lenat story
12:12 mircea_popescu no i know that part
12:12 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1253 @ 0.00074785 = 0.9371 BTC [-]
12:12 asciilifeform (given that i don't have a proper rant written yet to go with it, above will have to do for now)
12:23 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21957 @ 0.0007478 = 16.4194 BTC [-] {2}
12:24 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3226 @ 0.00074732 = 2.4109 BTC [-]
12:31 ben_vulpes <MolokoDesk> i may use SQLite instead of mySQL eventuall. << try postgres if ye've yet to. nicely done db.
12:33 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 300 @ 0.01494324 = 4.483 BTC [-]
12:33 thestringpuller ;;ls
12:33 gribble What do you think I am, a shell?
12:34 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8000 @ 0.00074725 = 5.978 BTC [-]
12:34 thestringpuller i cant get sql lite data into postgresql
12:35 ben_vulpes thats why start with pg
12:39 ben_vulpes !up daybyter
12:39 daybyter Thanks!
12:39 daybyter I use HyperSQL...
12:49 penguirker New blog post: http://contravex.com/2014/09/27/on-the-stupidity-of-biometric-security-for-smartphones-and-smartwatches/
12:49 penguirker New blog post: http://trilema.com/2014/three-steps-to-take-three-steps-and-other-tales-from-the-shitswamp/
13:01 kakobrekla asciilifeform try http://files.bitcoin-assets.com
13:01 assbot Index of /
13:01 mircea_popescu "the Russians are from three to five years ahead of the US in the field of atomic aircraft engines and they will move even further ahead unless the US pressed forward with its own program"
13:01 asciilifeform kakobrekla: neat. but i was hoping for individual turdlets that i could link to.
13:01 mircea_popescu from aviation weekly, 1958
13:02 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: laugh, but the recently released 'glomar explorer' howard hughes ru. submarine plunder reports...
13:02 asciilifeform stated that u.s. engineers pissed pants at some of the integrated circuitry found therein
13:02 asciilifeform most of the 'why' pissed - censored
13:02 asciilifeform but the fact thereof - not.
13:07 kakobrekla asciilifeform try now
13:07 asciilifeform kakobrekla: neat. thx
13:07 kakobrekla np
13:08 kakobrekla i plan to put some stuff there myself, such as log dump etc
13:08 kakobrekla would you like to have your own folder
13:08 asciilifeform sure.
13:10 kakobrekla done
13:10 mircea_popescu ;;isitdown https://blockchain.info
13:10 assbot Bitcoin Block Explorer - Blockchain.info
13:10 gribble https://blockchain.info is up
13:15 mircea_popescu decimation: what I find inexplicable is that you find folks in the us who absolutely hate everything about usg policies, in terms of how it mismanages wealth, fails to jail criminals, etc, and yet are willing to serve the military side <<< similarly, the wild animals that hate everything about the government will still traipse around on "government property"
13:16 mircea_popescu in spite of there being numerous posters in full view saying "by traipsing around here you agree to blablabla"
13:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the u.s. army installation i once worked in had the biggest, fattest herds of deer i've ever seen in person...
13:17 mircea_popescu military service of some sort or another is a required stage in male maturation.
13:17 mircea_popescu who claims to own it... whatever, im sure the fish acting as host for whatever parasite's obligate fish phase are "owned" by someone, at least according to them.
13:17 mircea_popescu ownership is a convention, meaningless outside the convenants.
13:19 mircea_popescu decimation: usg is the unintentional beneficiary of a great deal of "I want to make a difference" altruism << so no, it's not altruism. unrelated to that, there's a lot of "usg is the only obvious recipient for a bunch of faking of the <i want to not have sex but for everyone in school to think i do> sort."
13:20 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it is also, in a fairly large geographic zone, the only readily-accessible sponsor of many activities a thinking man (or 'man of action') would like to take up.
13:20 mircea_popescu quite my point.
13:21 mircea_popescu you gotta kill some people. avenue A is like so, avenue B is like so... hmm... well ok, let's go with B
13:21 asciilifeform there are other sponsors - but most of them require an 'in.' (ethnic, familial, whatever kind of 'in'). only one sponsor has press-gangs on the streets, taking all-comers.
13:21 mircea_popescu because it's obviously not military SERVICE. it's MILITARY service. killing people.
13:22 mircea_popescu asciilifeform actually two. the mob is still there.
13:22 asciilifeform this applies not only to the killing arts, but even something like - chemistry.
13:22 chetty last I heard military in ussa wasnt aking all comers
13:22 mircea_popescu chetty was this before or after they started paying terrorists for the safe return of deserters ?
13:23 chetty well when did that start? or do you mean when it got to be public and all
13:23 asciilifeform chetty: i was speaking more generally of employment with usg rather than proper soldiering as such
13:24 chetty ah yes, different matter asciilifeform
13:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform: then squadron with stone megacock can feel victorious, vindicated. << methinks this view is a little too convenient.
13:24 mircea_popescu seriously, lisp tripped on banana peel ?
13:24 mircea_popescu nobody could have foreseen ?
13:24 asciilifeform though, i've been told that even actual enlistment is now open to folks of fairly advanced age and shoddy physical condition, with the proviso that you will 'fly a desk'
13:25 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it was easy to foresee. but what alternative, when you gotta have the wealthy prince?
13:25 asciilifeform even if wealthy prince has an advanced crack habit
13:25 mircea_popescu no.
13:25 asciilifeform it's him - or starve
13:25 mircea_popescu these aren't the same strength.
13:25 asciilifeform ?
13:25 mircea_popescu rms's tortured existence is proof as to their uneven strength : neglecting the "gotta" works better than baking it in.
13:26 mircea_popescu in general, not doing something stupid "you got to do" is better on the long term than doing it.
13:26 mircea_popescu and if your project is long term... well there you go.
13:27 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: notice that rms will not speak of lisp to this day. the demise of lmi cut him off from the genuine machines (there was no possibility of baking one by his lonesome, or with his band of ragged dervishes, any more than they could launch a mars mission)
↖
13:27 asciilifeform all he had left was his embarrassing 'emacs lisp' erzats.
13:27 mircea_popescu rigt
13:28 mircea_popescu but unlike the other fucktards involved, he didn't go away into the night, and his efforts are at the root of why we even pose a problem to the usg today in the first place.
13:29 asciilifeform as far as i can tell, rms was defeated in his original life. and ended up performing almost the equivalent of a seppuku - had to retool and rescue some very small thing that could be salvaged, and turned it into another life.
13:29 mircea_popescu not in any sense.
13:30 mircea_popescu he just woke up to the concept of "never do something stupid, no matter how much you "gotta" "
13:30 mircea_popescu this is a major cause of the foss taking so very long to be killed.
13:31 mircea_popescu asciilifeform: if you had a truly clean break with the age of turdware - there would be a market for about six machines. << this is diletante business analysis. you really only need one, provided it works. look into the early history of ford cars.
13:31 mircea_popescu ford ignored a patent.
13:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26900 @ 0.00074718 = 20.0991 BTC [-] {3}
13:33 mircea_popescu decimation: it is because of the dynamic range allowed in a single blob <<< this is nonsense. the "range" is not intrinsic to the blob. the blob will only hold as much as it physicall can. what its concents mean to you, is entirely up to you
13:33 mircea_popescu to tell me that range is included in the item is nonsense of the first degree.
13:33 asciilifeform ford was able to capitalize, somehow, because ultimately any idiot can appreciate a car.
13:33 mircea_popescu asciilifeform do something useful. hence "if it works".
13:34 mircea_popescu forget "hearts and minds", that's the telltale preoccupation of a dying empire. concern yourself with the ground under their very feet and let them figure it out.
13:34 mircea_popescu they'll go on to reddit to discuss how X Y and Z are betting websites for as long as they can still find coins in mom's cushions to pay for the pizza.
13:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ahahaha, yeah, that'll buy me a silicon fab and decade of paid free time, sure.
13:37 mircea_popescu right, because that's what ford did o.o
13:37 asciilifeform picture if ford wanted moon lander instead
13:38 mircea_popescu you figure it's specifically the item in question ?
13:38 mircea_popescu the only relevant change there is that the car is history and the moon lander is not.
13:38 asciilifeform the type of item.
13:38 mircea_popescu obviously i can appreciate your position : for all the banality of sex, it's still a big deal to the virgin.
13:38 asciilifeform mass appeal - marketable. requires 500-year time horizon - less so.
13:38 mircea_popescu but let's stick to history. car or parabolic mirror to put ships on fire
13:39 mircea_popescu or washing your hands before delivering a woman
13:39 mircea_popescu etc.
13:42 asciilifeform sure
13:43 mircea_popescu not random examples. car : used individually, useful if used by a lot ; parabolic mirrors : used globally, useful if used at all. washing hands : used individually, useful if used at all.
13:43 mircea_popescu etc
13:45 asciilifeform also matters what kind of process is necessary to bring the item.
13:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00075064 = 8.5573 BTC [+] {2}
13:47 mircea_popescu no, because it is always going to be the same : industry.
13:47 mircea_popescu homo artifex.
13:47 asciilifeform except the item in question cannot be produced by industry. it's a craftsmanship item.
13:47 asciilifeform like samurai sword.
13:47 asciilifeform at least, ser. no #1.
13:47 chetty You think farnsworth had a clue what TV would become? or cared?
13:48 asciilifeform chetty: farnsworth didn't need a decade of free time. raster scan, fortunately, was a fairly simple item.
13:49 asciilifeform (despite this, he became the poster child of 'inventor starves, sponsor wins')
13:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform industry as thje human activity.
13:49 asciilifeform ok
13:49 mircea_popescu also, focus on the simple items.
13:49 mircea_popescu forget the meta game
13:50 chetty was it? from his point of view, at the time? I have trouble trying to imagine some of the early stabs at tech
13:50 mircea_popescu problem of mod\ernity is everyone trying to meta the shit out of their lif
13:53 * asciilifeform (not directly related) answered door and tool delivery of a nice japanese test dial, http://imgur.com/cvaJnWo << with hidden pin-up.
13:53 assbot wtf - Imgur
13:54 punkman asciilifeform: what's the difference of the non-test variety?
13:57 asciilifeform punkman: http://www.toolstop.co.uk/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/51831_PDG01I.jpg << test gauge. needle moves vertically.
13:57 asciilifeform *dial gauge
13:57 asciilifeform damnit
13:57 asciilifeform dial.
13:58 asciilifeform http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/attachments/f45/34689d1306308192-dial-test-indicator-repair-procedure-1.jpg << dial test gauge. needle moves horizontally.
13:58 asciilifeform or rather, in an arc.
13:58 asciilifeform and, normally, considerably more sensitive
13:58 asciilifeform (it is virtually impossible to touch with finger and make less than full circle on readout)
~ 16 minutes ~
14:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i must disagree exactly '180 degrees' about rms. he in fact did do a 'gotta' species of forced mistake. specifically, chose to accept eternal unix-clone retardation as gospel, because no alternative (in his mind, at the time)
14:16 asciilifeform forced, because it (or something entirely like it) is the only way to build a software ecosystem on scrapyard hardware.
14:17 asciilifeform but there is no phase space transition from cuban scrapyard cars to mazerati.
14:18 asciilifeform incidentally!
14:18 asciilifeform this mirrors the (almost-contemporary!) soviet mistake
14:18 asciilifeform of choosing to abandon all own research & clone u.s. hardware (to run u.s. warez eternally)
14:23 chetty http://www.androidauthority.com/consumer-reports-bend-test-531016/
14:23 assbot One (M8) comes last, Note 3 first in Consumer Reports bend test
14:24 chetty speaking of scrapyards of hardware ...
~ 15 minutes ~
14:39 asciilifeform chetty: smear job, just like 'antennaegate'
~ 19 minutes ~
14:59 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 39 @ 0.01494324 = 0.5828 BTC [-] {3}
~ 20 minutes ~
15:20 asciilifeform http://extropians.weidai.com/extropians.4Q99/3352.html << guess: the bugger went there, destroyed it.
15:20 assbot extropians: EURISKO article obtained
15:22 ben_vulpes chetty: looks like an actual bend test, with fixtures and all
15:24 asciilifeform how many popular, costly portable objects would pass this test?
15:24 asciilifeform e.g. 'glock' pistol?
15:24 asciilifeform 'doctor, it hurts when i do that.' - 'don't do that.'
15:32 ben_vulpes it's pathetic the things can't even open a beer.
15:32 ben_vulpes that* the things
15:33 asciilifeform nails, microscopes
15:35 kakobrekla you might not hammer a nail with your microscope but i do it with my phone.
15:35 ben_vulpes hm, probably want to look at bending moments and beam constraints too.
15:38 asciilifeform http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e3/d9/75/e3d9758fe7aedd433860caaf1a834ed1.jpg << kakobrekla's hammer phone ?
15:39 kakobrekla http://magboss.pl/pubs/uploads/74h01900-00m-obudowa-tylna-htc-desire-s-saga-s510e-(oryginalna),516ec2ca94fa3.png
15:39 kakobrekla i also got the insides, but thats the point.
15:41 kakobrekla (first day i had it, it flew about 3m vertically on a concrete floor)
↖
15:54 asciilifeform 'certain aspects of the NVIDIA graphics processor chip will only be available to... ...firmware images that have been signed by NVIDIA.'
15:54 asciilifeform http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTc5ODA
15:54 assbot [Phoronix] NVIDIA Alerts Nouveau: They're Starting To Sign/Validate GPU Firmware Images
~ 24 minutes ~
16:19 kakobrekla trading stream from exchanges will be down for a short while.
16:32 mircea_popescu asciilifeform perhaps.
16:38 mircea_popescu <pete_dushenski> asciilifeform: is this buono or male? <<< suppose your roommate goes "certain aspects of the appartment are only available with my permission".
16:38 mircea_popescu are you still room ~mates~ ?
16:39 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: hm quite. i guess i misunderstood what "signed by nvidia" meant.
16:40 pete_dushenski it's not "verified excellent" as much as "for british eyes only"
16:40 mircea_popescu it means exactly what signatures ever meant : nvidia wants to be sovereign on its own [inasmuch as it produces them] chips
16:40 mircea_popescu you probably want to be sovereign on your own [inasmuch as you bought them] chips
16:41 mircea_popescu you both can't be sovereign, so you got yourselves a problem now.
16:44 mircea_popescu decimation: apparently sabu of anonymous was living in a usg welfare apartment << the great "we infiltrated them for once" success story ? myeahg.
16:44 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: the turdware spreadeth across the land
16:44 mircea_popescu !up JimDowJo2es
16:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform: a professional scammer not scamming usg also, would be like a pro mechanic who won't fix own car << these words.
16:44 pete_dushenski to evenly distributed like rising floodwaters
16:45 pete_dushenski until someone makes an ark!
16:45 pete_dushenski i nominate mp for noah.
16:46 mircea_popescu decimation: I don't get the jews. why do they care about jews? They are just a small subset of europeans among the unwashed masses of europeans <<< you should learn yidish to see the things some jews think about some other jews.
16:46 * pete_dushenski wonders why his mind so readily leans towards old testament references…
16:46 mircea_popescu it's quite amusing, and will put the entire "secret cabal" thing into such perspective...
16:46 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski sign of getting old perhaps ?
16:46 mircea_popescu !up unbalanced
16:47 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: lol bring on the wisdom of the ages!
16:48 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: yiddish is full of adjectives that describe people, far more than of those that describe things
16:48 pete_dushenski why? because there weren't many things
16:48 mircea_popescu lol
16:48 pete_dushenski it was a rather critical tongue
16:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform: we could start with his idea of 'young and old men ought to live in separate countries.' << they do, mostly.
16:49 mircea_popescu women being the border.
16:49 bounce so, a people of scolds, then
16:50 pete_dushenski hm. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com is bringing up "flush dns" error
16:57 mircea_popescu bounce: but the takeaway ought to be that you (ie, those in power) are rigging the system then blaming the victims for having let the system end up being rigged against them. <<< this is exactly right. how else would anything work ?
16:59 mircea_popescu dude reading this moriarty fellow interact with xmj is like watching a drunk clown trying to ride a cow with k-j, except the clown is really a cow in clown costume and the cow really a clown in cow costume and again adn again.
17:00 bounce the card racket's profits do mean it's not going to be replaced. also the convenient fobbing off of risks to everyone else. (chargebacks to the merchants, privacy problems to the "consumer")
17:00 mircea_popescu but hey, props for trolling bounce into a frenzy, i never saw him talk this much b4
17:01 mircea_popescu bounce well, they won't go anywhere for as long as the system that spawned them lasts.
17:01 mircea_popescu this is for sure. they're a part of it, like the hair styles of the late empire are part of the late empire.
17:01 mircea_popescu but that doesn't make them anything other than styles.
17:05 mircea_popescu anyway.
17:06 mircea_popescu ;;rate xmj -1 Derp just won't shut up.
17:06 gribble Rating entry successful. Your rating of -1 for user xmj has been recorded.
17:08 xmj ohh, lovely
17:08 xmj some fucktard I ignore and haven't dealt with gave me a -1 rating
17:10 bounce hmno, I don't think rigging the system is a good long-term strategy. it shouldn't be necessary, and if you think it is, you're venturing into empire territory.
17:11 mircea_popescu rigging the system is pretty much the only strategy. give an example of something else at work.
17:11 xmj bounce: which lovely person rated me negatively? :)
17:11 mircea_popescu airlift is achieved through "rigging the system" of dynamic equilibrium
17:11 mircea_popescu the carnot cycle is rigging the system of thermodynamics
17:12 bounce uhm. I think you misread the context of the comment then.
17:12 mircea_popescu possibly. what'd i miss ?
17:14 bounce at the end of the complaint would be something much akin to your "bring back pecunia non olet" argument
17:15 mircea_popescu but that can't work in the current system.
17:15 mircea_popescu and if the system is uprooted, you really think something like its coiffure fashions a la mastercard would somehow survive ? how.
17:16 bounce oh I don't mind them going the way of the dodo. the thing was rather moriarty was rationalising their existence as "best possible (evar)", which I disagreed with
17:17 mircea_popescu well sure. lots that guy stil needs to read.
17:19 asciilifeform ;;rate xmj -1 habitually pulls down #bitcoin-assets SNR.
17:19 gribble Rating entry successful. Your rating of -1 for user xmj has been recorded.
17:20 mircea_popescu !down xmj
17:20 mircea_popescu hallelujah.
17:20 pete_dushenski http://www.sbjf.org/sbjco/schmaltz/yiddish_phrases.htm
17:20 assbot Yiddish Phrases
17:23 ben_vulpes ;;gettrust assbot ben_vulpes
17:23 gribble Currently authenticated from hostmask ben_vulpes!~user@unaffiliated/benkay. Trust relationship from user assbot to user ben_vulpes: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 12 via 12 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=ben_vulpes | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=ben_vulpes | Rated since: Sun Mar 10 13:57:45 2013
17:26 mircea_popescu asciilifeform http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/lenat-leaks/ if you still want a backup
17:26 assbot Index of /wp-content/uploads/2014/09/lenat-leaks
17:27 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: neato. now one of these days i actually write the turdifesto to go with these.
17:28 asciilifeform as for herr lenat himself - looks like he's finally settled into island fortress, or the like: http://www.informatik.uni-trier.de/~ley/pers/hd/l/Lenat:Douglas_B=
17:28 assbot dblp: Douglas B. Lenat
17:28 pete_dushenski looks like asciilifeform
17:28 pete_dushenski oops
17:28 asciilifeform though this '08 piece is somewhat interesting - http://www.aaai.org/ojs/index.php/aimagazine/article/view/2106
17:28 assbot The Voice of the Turtle: Whatever Happened to AI? | Lenat | AI Magazine
17:29 pete_dushenski looks like asciilifeform's вредителями has a yiddish equivalent: nudnik
17:29 pete_dushenski for those who prefer latin characters
17:29 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: nah, that's just 'annoying bugger'
17:29 mircea_popescu nudnik is pest not wrecker
17:29 asciilifeform (russian loan word)
17:30 asciilifeform who wants yiddish, here: http://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibitions/music/vilna_partisans_zog_nit_keyn_mol.asp
17:30 assbot Heartstrings. Music of the Holocaust
17:30 mircea_popescu o nm, wrong russian :)
17:30 mircea_popescu вредительство, вредителями, what the hell's the difference.
17:30 pete_dushenski perhaps shtunk
17:31 asciilifeform ^ 'wreckery', 'by way of the wreckers'
17:31 asciilifeform ^ declansions
17:31 asciilifeform *declensions
17:31 mircea_popescu :D
17:31 mircea_popescu point remains. pest (annoyance) != pest (plague bearer)
17:31 asciilifeform 'wrecker' isn't even an exact translation. originally, 'pest', really, as in agricultural - or the rats and mice in kitchen
17:32 mircea_popescu right]
17:32 mircea_popescu the small thing that brings doom
17:32 asciilifeform english somehow wrapped many words into single box, in many cases. orwell even laments this in one essay
17:32 asciilifeform 'bug' for all insects, 'bird' in general usage for all birds
17:32 asciilifeform this was less of a thing in 19th c. and prior educated english text, and he noticed the changeover
17:32 mircea_popescu asciilifeform if you gonna pretend like the peasants are people, you're stuck pretending language as they speak it is language, and that fifty words should be enough for everyone
17:32 mircea_popescu and other things
17:33 asciilifeform hence then 'pest' for both flea and plague rat.
17:33 asciilifeform ^
17:33 asciilifeform this, yes.
17:46 pete_dushenski https://twitter.com/pete_dushenski/status/515980358928846848
17:46 assbot ./jordanr1000 helped set up a fake computer to entice hackers. This is who showed up: http://t.co/RZLaXg52T9 http://t.co/dxkZd6ikMU
17:46 bounce bit of a difference between "rigging something up" (building something, say making good use of known principles such as laws of nature) and "rigging the system" (which recurses, say, playing the SEC)
17:47 pete_dushenski https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/515963941592518656 << for bathhouse julia.
17:47 assbot The namedropper tries to have prominent friends; the righteous will have prominent enemies.
17:49 pete_dushenski https://www.facebook.com/13012333374/photos/a.10150109720973375.279515.13012333374/10152488919783375/?type=1 << taleb on information theory's centrality.
17:50 pete_dushenski the different between information theory and epistemology? some mathematical rigour here and there.
17:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18076 @ 0.00075112 = 13.5772 BTC [+] {3}
17:53 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2587 @ 0.00056039 = 1.4497 BTC [-] {21}
17:54 bounce that doesn't feel quite right
17:54 jurov <pete_dushenski> http://www.sbjf.org/sbjco/schmaltz/yiddish_phrases.htm << is this troll or yiddish is really so close to german?
17:54 assbot Yiddish Phrases
17:55 pete_dushenski jurov: no trolmo
17:55 pete_dushenski yiddish is a cross between hebrew and german
17:55 pete_dushenski sounds like hebrew but with german alphabet
17:56 jurov GAY SHLAFEN lmao
18:10 bounce http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/09/27/man_too_busy_looking_at_ipad_sparks_security_alert/
18:10 assbot iPAD-FONDLING fanboi sparks SECURITY ALERT at Sydney airport The Register
18:11 bounce guy wasn't looking where he walked and so walked right by the security checkpoints. obvious answer? evacuate the whole airport.
18:24 mircea_popescu jurov no it's reallyclose to german
18:25 mircea_popescu bounce they were just looking for an excuse to derp on their own ipad
18:33 mats_cd03 i find myself wishing there was an assbot in every chan i idle in
18:34 mircea_popescu mats_cd03 ikr?
18:34 mircea_popescu same thing here.
18:34 guruvan lol mats_cd03 assbot is one of my favorite bots
18:34 mats_cd03 i have felt the compulsion to reproduce its features on occasion
18:37 mats_cd03 http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-navajo-nation-settlement-20140924-story.html lol
18:37 assbot U.S. settlement with Navajo Nation is largest ever for a tribe - LA Times
18:37 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12650 @ 0.00074977 = 9.4846 BTC [-]
18:44 guruvan more settlements like that likely on the way too
~ 17 minutes ~
19:01 thestringpuller where is my 40 acres and a god damned mule
19:01 mats_cd03 free 0day: msctf!CTsfTextStoreManager.
19:08 mats_cd03 not mine, but i'm told its unreliable.
19:09 mats_cd03 www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xmk4a76CXTw
~ 20 minutes ~
19:30 kakobrekla !mpif
19:30 assbot BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021861 B (Total: 478.05 B). Delta: -2.17 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.00020614 BTC [-]
19:30 * danielpbarron slaps assbot around a bit with a large netsplit
~ 18 minutes ~
19:48 kakobrekla jesus.
19:49 kakobrekla changed the engine only to figure out brake was on.
19:56 penguirker New blog post: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/09/27/where-are-those-baseball-bitbets-now-oh-some-are-still-open/
20:06 BingoBoingo http://hotpenguin.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/repurpose-reuse-old-stuff-27-600x454.jpg
20:12 assbot ADutchGamer +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
20:12 bounce !up ADutchGamer
20:13 bounce !up ADutchGamer
20:13 ADutchGamer thanks
20:13 ADutchGamer is anyone working on the log and bash yet?
20:14 ADutchGamer I'm trying to catch up but all they show is flush dns
20:14 ADutchGamer as in: just htis text: 'flush dns'
20:19 * bounce reloaded named and it still shows up with the same thing. possibly a SOA problem. oh well.
20:19 bounce can stick 178.62.225.203 in hosts for a temporary solution
20:20 kakobrekla not all dns records were updated yet but i put that on anyway so it looks like its not my fault
20:21 assbot Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/34QF9NN.txt )
20:21 BingoBoingo !b 1
20:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.00075165 = 4.2844 BTC
20:26 ADutchGamer So it's just a matter of waiting a few hours and then it will work?
20:27 kakobrekla or edit hosts file
20:32 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22100 @ 0.00075113 = 16.6 BTC [-] {2}
20:33 ADutchGamer it works now, thanks :)
20:33 kakobrekla yw!
20:38 bounce until the next record change
20:39 kakobrekla :)
20:39 bounce tablet-optimised layouts, how I loathe thee
20:39 kakobrekla doesnt change that often - this is the first time.
20:40 bounce may want to drop ttl a bit beforehand
20:41 mircea_popescu <kakobrekla> changed the engine only to figure out brake was on. << loller
20:42 kakobrekla or proxy it or whatever else but its not like you guys cant take a couple of hrs off
20:45 bounce clearly not
20:47 BingoBoingo Basically Mpex's week+ summer vacation is the equivalent of assbot being down a few hours.
20:47 BingoBoingo Well not assbot, but the logs, bash and other bot ass output
20:47 thestringpuller !ticker m s.mpoe
20:47 assbot [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00074715 / 0.00075076 / 0.0007539 (480877 shares, 361.03 BTC), 7D: 0.00074485 / 0.00075039 / 0.00075684 (4158000 shares, 3,120.16 BTC), 30D: 0.00059659 / 0.00076292 / 0.00086605 (15660113 shares, 11,947.42 BTC)
20:48 thestringpuller assbot you my only friend
20:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16000 @ 0.00074941 = 11.9906 BTC [-] {2}
20:51 BingoBoingo ;;rated assbot
20:51 gribble You rated user assbot on Fri Apr 11 14:42:06 2014, with a rating of 10, and supplied these additional notes: !up Periscope.
20:51 BingoBoingo ;;rate assbot 10 friend
20:51 gribble Rating entry successful. Your rating for user assbot has changed from 10 to 10.
20:54 BingoBoingo This is a way to handle a troublesome District Attourney http://www.alternet.org/outrage-mans-health-insurance-holding-his-liver-transplant-hostage
20:54 assbot Outrage: Man's Health Insurance Is Holding His Liver Transplant Hostage | Alternet
20:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19000 @ 0.00074843 = 14.2202 BTC [-]
20:56 BingoBoingo Sent out to sea on the same sort of red tape they put in front of decent people who simply disagree with them on matters of justice
21:02 mats_cd03 i'll be your friend. :)
21:06 bounce then this is the end
21:07 mats_cd03 there's no end where we're going.
~ 21 minutes ~
21:28 asciilifeform from navajo link: http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-pennsylvania-eric-frein-update-20140924-story.html
21:28 assbot Trooper-ambush suspect spotted several times in manhunt, police say - LA Times
21:29 asciilifeform this is the n-th desperado, of only the public ones, in kn years, for some pos. int. k.
21:29 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: This shutting down an entire Geographic area is what they practiced in Boston, yes?
21:29 asciilifeform SOP by now.
21:33 mats_cd03 i wonder if hes enjoying himself
21:34 asciilifeform probably.
21:34 asciilifeform although the arse grenade (if he has any brains, has one) probably chafes.
21:34 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.0007481 = 18.4781 BTC [-] {2}
21:36 TheNewDeal pardon my ignorance, but logs are in reboot stage?
21:37 BingoBoingo TheNewDeal: DNS is repropagating
21:37 BingoBoingo kako put on his surgeon's gown today
21:39 asciilifeform 'Frein may see the manhunt as a game, police said, and likely has supplies and a bunker hidden in the woods. Police have found soiled diapers, Serbian cigarettes and other clues that he remains in the area, but are proceeding with caution in part because they believe he may have explosives.'
21:40 asciilifeform mega-lulzies
21:42 asciilifeform 'Authorities said Friday that the hard drive of a computer used by Frein provides evidence he had been planning an attack for years. They said Frein's Internet searches included sites on how to avoid police manhunts.'
21:43 asciilifeform menu: herr frein is 1) an imbecile 2) elementarily framed 3) fictional persona
21:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5111 @ 0.00074774 = 3.8217 BTC [-]
21:43 bounce http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Matthew_Frein nice list of toys they're throwing after him
21:43 assbot Eric Matthew Frein - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
21:47 asciilifeform after someone.
21:47 asciilifeform http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/topten
21:47 assbot FBI — Ten Most Wanted
21:48 asciilifeform ^ third place. nice.
21:49 BingoBoingo "Authorities speculate that Frein, driving with his lights off on Pennsylvania Route 402, failed to see a T-junction and drove into the swamp, then may have traveled 15 to 20 miles on foot to Canadensis, Pennsylvania, where his parents live." << Lesson here
21:51 asciilifeform lesson << ditch a car, confuse idiot bureaucrats ?
21:52 BingoBoingo Lights might make a car visible, but crashing it because you kept them off, suspect!
21:52 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: care to hazard a guess re: the diapers?
21:53 asciilifeform u.s. army snipers have been known to wear them, now that i recall.
21:53 bounce didn't that stalking astronaut get caught with diapers due to long drive?
21:54 BingoBoingo the diapers are probably a cargo cult thing, because the pros do it that way
21:54 TheNewDeal So on bitbet, I know if you send a tx to an address for an open bet, the address is reserved for you for the entirety of the bet. But is the addr supposed to hold the btc until the bet closes, or no?
21:54 asciilifeform that's the intended implication, at any rate.
21:55 BingoBoingo But if you are driving a car around the backwoods under the cover of night, use the fucking headlights
21:55 asciilifeform 'The Monroe County District Attorney's Office filed 15 search warrants since the hunt for Frein began about two weeks ago to search various buildings, but Bivens declined to comment on the warrants.'
21:55 asciilifeform aha now some meat.
21:56 asciilifeform 'The Monroe County District Attorney's Office filed 15 search warrants since the hunt for Frein began about two weeks ago to search various buildings, but Bivens declined to comment on the warrants. He acknowledged the substantial, and growing, cost to state and federal agencies.'
21:56 asciilifeform anyone here ever read eric frank russell's 'wasp' ?
21:57 asciilifeform damn broken paste
21:57 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12813 @ 0.0007472 = 9.5739 BTC [-] {2}
21:57 asciilifeform 'Bivens estimated that the force hunting Frein has included the "high hundreds to 1,000" members of law enforcement agencies.'
21:57 BingoBoingo For all we know Frein is just a Richard Jewell who has simply retreated to jack off in the woods for a few weeks and has no idea what is going on.
21:58 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4690 @ 0.00074826 = 3.5093 BTC [+]
21:58 bounce they're having a field day, then
22:00 bounce I suspect an expert would gather a few good trackers and catch the guy in a week with ~30 people or so.
22:00 decimation asciilifeform: so I tried to install gentoo in a vm last night, was disappointed that it wanted me to install systemd. apparently one should install 'minimal' and then bootstrap software stack
22:00 asciilifeform http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/26/diaper-sniper-eric-frein_n_5887694.html
22:00 assbot Eric Frein Manhunt: 'Diaper Sniper' Reportedly Phoned Parents (LIVE UPDATES)
22:00 asciilifeform ^ svd!
22:00 asciilifeform decimation: the fortress falls!
22:01 asciilifeform decimation: although - wiki indicates is optional. did you ask for 'gnome' and forgot?
22:02 decimation no I installed 'kde' profile
22:02 decimation in retrospect I should have installed hardened/minimal
22:02 asciilifeform quite a few things have been trying to suck it in under the cover of 'dependencies'
22:02 decimation if the guy is such a brilliant woodsman why is he leaving trash for others to find?
22:02 TheNewDeal ;;bc,stats
22:02 asciilifeform decimation: because he's fictional.
22:02 BingoBoingo I might have to read 'Wasp'
22:03 gribble Current Blocks: 322863 | Current Difficulty: 3.466142592397694E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 324575 | Next Difficulty In: 1712 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 7 hours, 35 minutes, and 49 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 33502089229.0 | Estimated Percent Change: -3.34475
22:03 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: wasp << highly recommended.
22:03 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: especially for you.
22:03 decimation asciilifeform: yeah that appears to be the situation. I don't understand how a gui desktop 'requires' a particular init system
22:03 asciilifeform decimation: because... and this reminds me:
22:03 asciilifeform mircea_popescu, others who know who flondor was
22:03 BingoBoingo decimation: systemd temps the desktop systems with login handling
22:03 asciilifeform perhaps it is time for a lustration list.
22:04 decimation although according to the boycottsystemd webpage, it sounds like systemd 'wants' to take over much of unix userland
22:04 asciilifeform kept, possibly, in the deeds register
22:04 asciilifeform of all the sniveling shilling shits who took part in hearbleed insertion, propagation of 'systemd', the like.
22:05 asciilifeform these people are walking around, alive, and worst of all - continuing to churn out code. which unwitting chumps will actually use.
22:05 decimation I nominate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering
22:05 assbot Lennart Poettering - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
22:05 decimation pulseaudio, systemd, avahi, all turds
22:05 asciilifeform it's time for the 'nazi playing cards'
22:05 asciilifeform with names, faces.
22:06 asciilifeform lennart p. isn't even a top candidate for the playing cards, because just about everyone already knows what he is.
22:06 mircea_popescu <asciilifeform> although the arse grenade (if he has any brains, has one) probably chafes. << why ?
22:06 mircea_popescu what's the most they're going to do ? pay 20k a year for his support ?
22:07 asciilifeform the hidden little shitgnomes like author of heartbleed - they are the ones who needs the lethal sunlight rays the most.
22:07 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: notice i said 'arse grenade' not 'cyanide tooth.'
22:08 bounce you think heartbleed was intentional?
22:08 asciilifeform specifically in light of the historic re-enactment role he's supposedly playing.
22:08 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> what's the most they're going to do ? pay 20k a year for his support ? << Incarceration, especially at the federal level is rarely so inexpensive for the jailers
22:08 asciilifeform bounce:
22:08 asciilifeform !s miracles
22:08 assbot 46 results for 'miracles' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=miracles
22:08 decimation asciilifeform: the next step: somehow get a unix distribution that completely excludes contributions from the lustration list
22:08 asciilifeform decimation: yes.
22:08 kakobrekla and then we can start pretending.
22:09 asciilifeform bounce: i posit that it must be presumed intentional. the shitgnomes hide behind the impossibility of logically proving their guilt.
22:10 decimation the problem is that nearly all hardware vendors would be on the list too
22:10 asciilifeform decimation: gotta start somewhere.
22:11 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12960 @ 0.0007495 = 9.7135 BTC [+]
22:11 bounce we could use better hardware, too
22:11 asciilifeform decimation: at the moment, proven, proud, unrepentant вредители are 'respected faces of the komyooniti', doing as they please.
22:12 bounce but an overly large list would be counter-productive; a valid concern.
22:12 kakobrekla nah. basically everyone should just drop their keyboards and stop coding until there exists a platform where not guilty by default (of using it)
22:13 kakobrekla dare to continue as is, you will, sooner or later, find yourself on the list.
22:13 decimation kakobrekla: a worthy dream, but the problem is that if everyone did that, then nobody would make such a platform
22:13 * bounce didn't catch on to hiding behind lame excuses with the openssl folks, but if so that ought to be enough to get the s/w booted entirely, not just revamped.
22:14 asciilifeform kakobrekla: if the item i am presently working on is not easily provable honest to an educated reader, then i will deserve to be placed on the list.
22:14 asciilifeform kakobrekla: and, in fact, should be presumed dead, and the fellow walking around with my key - ought to go on list.
22:14 bounce tangentially, shouldn't it be feasible to get decent performance out of a suitably open-and-accessible-microcode cpu running on some fpga or other these days?
22:15 asciilifeform bounce: all the extant fpga have tightly closed architecture
22:15 decimation yeah there's a spectrum between 'honest mistake' and 'massive fuck-up'
22:15 asciilifeform bounce: search channel logs re: at least three separate discussions of how this came to be
22:15 kakobrekla and heres the fourth.
22:15 bounce you'd at least have access from the gate design on up, already a bit more than COTS CPUs give you
22:16 decimation bounce: ultimately you are still trusting the fpga maker
22:16 asciilifeform bounce: nope. most fpga work is carried out in units considerably larger than 'gate', from considerations of efficiency.
22:16 asciilifeform you get a supply of adders, shifters, multipliers, etc.
22:17 decimation they have little 'units' of logic glued together, with a little look-up table to determine how each one functions
22:17 bounce boo. oh well. back to ttl then (magic-1.org)
22:17 asciilifeform the vendors (there are exactly two worth mentioning, 'xilinx' and 'altera' - the others sell miniscule turdlets, most often with zero linux toolchain support) also play fast & loose with the word 'gate'
22:18 asciilifeform counting a shifter as 'xxx gates' worth
22:19 asciilifeform fpga is still interesting
22:19 asciilifeform partly because, the amount of damage a dishonest vendor can do is actually minimal
22:19 asciilifeform as far as i can tell
22:20 asciilifeform let's say you purchase an fpga from satan.
22:20 bounce printable electronics getting closer, should be an interestin proof-of-concept though I wouldn't expect to even get full mipsen out of it.
22:20 bounce s/tin/&g/
22:20 asciilifeform bounce: 'printable' is a word you can safely place in your spam filter.
22:21 asciilifeform it's a leper's bell for grantsmanship and chumpatronics of the most tedious sort.
22:21 asciilifeform none of the 'printing' brouhaha places integrated circuit any closer to manufacture in your kitchen.
22:21 decimation satan's fpga could have a bugged embedded cpu
22:22 asciilifeform let's say it does.
22:22 asciilifeform now what.
22:22 decimation satan would have to know a great deal about you design
22:22 asciilifeform yes.
22:22 decimation satan would give up and bug the toolchain
22:23 asciilifeform in fact, even if satan lifts the entire netlist of your design, he will have to sweat a great deal to understand which bits to flip.
22:23 decimation thatnisntrue
22:23 asciilifeform if satan is merely listening to your i/o, this is a listening device in the ordinary sense, and not really fpga-specific diddling
22:23 decimation heh s/n/ /
22:24 asciilifeform likewise, when people ponder 'chip boobytraps' they are normally thinking of a one-transistor turdlet that creates an 'evil instruction' or whatnot
22:25 asciilifeform an unexpected cpu in the middle of fpga LUT fabric would stand out even under optical microscope.
22:25 asciilifeform so the turd has to be subtle
22:25 asciilifeform what can one accomplish on fpga, knowing nothing about your opponent's future purpose for it, with a small turd ?
22:25 asciilifeform (i don't insist there is no interesting answer to this question, just confess that i don't know one)
22:26 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46803 @ 0.00074671 = 34.9483 BTC [-] {2}
22:27 decimation yeah point taken. presumably satan will have your netlist anyway, if you want your part to be open to inspection
22:27 asciilifeform i can take an educated guess, however.
22:27 asciilifeform it is virtually impossible now to buy a pure fpga.
22:27 asciilifeform almost always there are 'convenient' things rolled in - like pci-e support
22:27 asciilifeform or sdram controllers
22:27 decimation or serdes or cpu
22:27 asciilifeform or.
22:27 asciilifeform it would be fairly simple to include a pattern match for 'magic bus cycle' or 'magic instruction' on built-in-cpu that will, e.g., short supply to ground.
22:28 asciilifeform release magic smoke
22:28 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7647 @ 0.00074656 = 5.7089 BTC [-] {2}
22:28 asciilifeform to make long story short, there are exactly two vendors of 'high-density' fpga, and their products are almost exactly alike - more so even than 'coca cola' and 'pepsi.'
22:28 asciilifeform both, afaik, market primarily to usg and subsidiaries
22:29 asciilifeform 'xilinx' in particular brags of 'nsa certified' whatevers.
22:29 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23253 @ 0.00074645 = 17.3572 BTC [-] {2}
22:29 decimation http://press.xilinx.com/2011-08-31-NSA-Approved-Defense-Grade-Spartan-6Q-FPGA-in-Production-for-Highest-Level-Cryptographic-Capabilities-Strengthens-Xilinx-Secure-Leadership
22:29 assbot NSA Approved Defense-Grade Spartan-6Q FPGA in Production for Highest Level Cryptographic Capabilities Strengthens Xilinx Secure Leadership - Aug 31, 2011
22:29 asciilifeform neither is 'open' in any sense whatsoever.
22:31 decimation "Key to the NSA's approval is the ability of the Spartan-6Q device to isolate user functionality within a single device while maintaining tamper proofing. The NSA completed a fail-safe analysis effort on the Spartan-6Q family to confirm that the individual regions of the FPGA are isolated from each other in the event of failure. "
22:32 asciilifeform decimation: understand that this had no bearing on usg-triggered surprises.
22:33 decimation no, and I think that particular chip isn't available to regular humans
22:33 asciilifeform decimation: yes, bureaucrats demand some electrical tests to show that 'black' won't short to 'red' by accident.
22:33 asciilifeform decimation: available. 'ebay' for example.
22:33 asciilifeform buy as many as you want.
22:34 mircea_popescu soiled diapers, Serbian cigarettes <<< dude wtf.
22:35 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: Official Truth holds that he's a ww2 reenactor gone off the spools
22:35 decimation wow you can buy cheap fgpa dev boards on ebay
22:35 asciilifeform decimation: i've never bought them anywhere else.
22:35 mircea_popescu i don't get it. so you just take a piss.
22:35 mircea_popescu why would you wear devices to make the piss cling to you ?!
22:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: u.s. army issues diapers. ask them - not me
22:36 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> why would you wear devices to make the piss cling to you ?! << This is why I suspect a bit of cargo cult happening
22:36 asciilifeform mats_cd03 << did you wear them ?
22:36 decimation it is amusing that ebay has effectively become 'amazon for shenzhen'
22:37 mats_cd03 yes
22:37 mircea_popescu so there's this theatre right outside my windo, where a derpy guy does i dunno what dances.
22:37 asciilifeform mats_cd03: what's the rationale for diapers ?
22:37 mircea_popescu there's been teenage girl wailings pretty much non stop for an hour
22:37 mats_cd03 diapers + baby wipes are god's gift to men in the field
22:37 mircea_popescu what the fuck, minor celebrity
22:37 kakobrekla 'amazon for shenzhen' < isnt that aliexpress or smth
22:37 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8900 @ 0.00074881 = 6.6644 BTC [+]
22:37 mircea_popescu mats_cd03 why would you wear diapers ?
22:37 mircea_popescu the wipes i ee.
22:37 decimation I guess I haven't used either of those
22:38 mats_cd03 my usual undergarments were soiled and crusty after 2 weeks in the field
22:38 decimation whenever I load an alibaba page it makes me feel certain I'm about to be scammed
22:38 BingoBoingo <kakobrekla> 'amazon for shenzhen' < isnt that aliexpress or smth << Basically the Alibabba thing gets its fame as where American small and medium businesses get their entire inventory
22:38 mats_cd03 worst part was... they were only crusty when they weren't being worn.
22:38 mircea_popescu <bounce> I suspect an expert would gather a few good trackers and catch the guy in a week with ~30 people or so. << what trackers. this is 2014.
22:39 mats_cd03 turns right back into shit after a few hours
22:39 mats_cd03 its not really necessary. depends on the person
22:39 mircea_popescu mats_cd03 help me out here. so you wore the same underwear for two weeks,
22:39 mircea_popescu and if you're going to do that, best make it pampers ?
22:39 decimation http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Tracking "The Stalking merit badge was one of the original 57 merit badges issued by the Boy Scouts of America in 1911; it was discontinued in 1952."
22:39 assbot Tracking (Centennial merit badge) - MeritBadgeDotOrg
22:40 mats_cd03 they're comfy man, i don't know what to say
22:40 mircea_popescu decimation and they were never ver ygood at it either.
22:40 mircea_popescu mats_cd03 aite.
22:40 decimation probably not, but they aren't even trying anymore
22:41 mircea_popescu <decimation> asciilifeform: yeah that appears to be the situation. I don't understand how a gui desktop 'requires' a particular init system <<< join the conga line heh.
22:41 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it 'requires' whatever the shitgnomes place in the 'requires' list.
22:41 asciilifeform that's - how.
22:41 decimation what I find interesting is that systemd has become standard in redhat enterprise 7
22:41 mircea_popescu <asciilifeform> kept, possibly, in the deeds register << feel free.
22:42 decimation redhat enterprise is famous for have 5 year old revs of everything ... except new init script hotness?
22:42 asciilifeform decimation: this is how you find them.
22:42 mircea_popescu decimation look, the plan to turn open source into windows lite is proceeding apace.
22:42 asciilifeform decimation: just as a cockroach in your kitchen means, inescapably, that not far from it there is a seething brown mass of his brothers.
22:43 mircea_popescu avahi, incidentally, was an atrocious piece of shit
22:43 mircea_popescu it's incredible anyone seriously takes its author for a coder.
22:43 asciilifeform another heuristic that invariably tells us where to dig.
22:43 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu> avahi, incidentally, was an atrocious piece of shit << But it copies the also compeltely unwanted Bonjour piece of shit so well
22:44 mircea_popescu <decimation> asciilifeform: the next step: somehow get a unix distribution that completely excludes contributions from the lustration list << i still think the correct solution is a github that does signed reads
22:44 mircea_popescu then let people filkter it out by their own criteria.
22:44 mircea_popescu we got the wot, let's use the wot.
22:44 asciilifeform heuristic: 1) piece of shit? 2) mysteriously ubiquitous? 3) quickly? 4) author is socially connected to other derpers pushing similar items that match 1-4 ?
22:44 decimation yeah I agree
22:44 decimation 'filter software by all known contributors' would be useful
22:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform mind that heuristics don't work well when lustration lists are involved.
22:45 mircea_popescu decimation not contributors. filter by the people who read and signed off on this code.
22:45 mircea_popescu nobdy gives a shit about the author. writing software is like taking a shit, worthless.
22:45 TheNewDeal ;;calc .00000001*3500
22:45 gribble 3.5e-05
22:45 mircea_popescu tasting othe rpeople's shit is a valued skill
22:45 asciilifeform today - no list. today all we have is loud, proud enemy, bragging about his deeds
22:45 asciilifeform not even pretending to bother to hide.
22:45 mircea_popescu asciilifeform we got the infrastructure. the guilotine, so to speak, is built.
22:46 mircea_popescu that derps prance around it and pretend to be making light of its powerlessness...
22:46 mircea_popescu that's the privilege of sheep.
22:46 mircea_popescu any pig may take a piss on the blade late december. whether he does or does not, come christmas...
22:46 decimation right, for instance someone in redhat said "yes, let's use poettering's turd in our next distro'
22:47 mircea_popescu <decimation> the problem is that nearly all hardware vendors would be on the list too << how i this a problem ?
22:47 bounce you know, I've always had an instinctive disliking of avahi, without even having to read the code. some code really can smell right through everything.
22:47 mircea_popescu bounce isn't it incredible how readily a circlejerk is formed
22:47 mircea_popescu "great minds think alike and idiots seldom differ", was it.
22:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: guillotine << after years of searching, i finally found that ancient tale: http://www.asstr.org/files/Collections/snuffstories/Honda-Matic/TheVibrotine.html
22:48 mircea_popescu asstraffoc ?!
22:48 asciilifeform 'This gift certificate entitles the bearer to 1 (one) of our latest model of our most popular sexecution device the VibrotineTM 6000 GSP.'
22:48 asciilifeform asstr where else
22:48 decimation oh, poettering is employed by redhat - someone hired him
22:48 bounce hard to tell who's doing the circle jerking though.
22:49 mircea_popescu <bounce> but an overly large list would be counter-productive; a valid concern. << counterproductive in what sense ?
22:49 mircea_popescu we have an ample overabundance of both humans and capital goods. why is excluding all the vendors or all the social mediated shitheads a cost ?
22:49 mircea_popescu it's a benefit.
22:50 bounce if you have unlimited procuring power and so can order whatever you want from whichever custom shop can deliver it
22:50 mircea_popescu <kakobrekla> dare to continue as is, you will, sooner or later, find yourself on the list. << this is a valid concern.
22:50 asciilifeform professional hazard of guillotine operation, yes.
22:50 TheNewDeal whens the next #ba meetup?
22:50 Vexual nao
22:50 mircea_popescu * bounce didn't catch on to hiding behind lame excuses with the openssl folks, but if so that ought to be enough to get the s/w booted entirely, not just revamped. << it is.
22:51 decimation oh, poettering is employed by redhat - someone hired hi
22:51 TheNewDeal like the irl one
22:51 mircea_popescu de raadt made the same call
22:51 mircea_popescu $conference
22:51 empyex mircea_popescu: Next conference starts in 6 months and 20 days. Estimated cost today: 3.27056492 BTC (Details: http://trilema.com/2014/the-conference-third-edition/ )
22:52 bounce well, not entirely. they started kicking out "cruft" but keeping the general structure and core code
22:52 mircea_popescu <asciilifeform> bounce: search channel logs re: at least three separate discussions of how this came to be << you know, giving terms like "xilinx" is better than an empty search entreaty. he doesn't know what to search for.
22:52 asciilifeform xilinx.
22:53 mircea_popescu bounce it gets complicated, obviously. tbh i don't have atm an opinion on the libre thing
22:54 BingoBoingo http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/03/09/20_freescale_employees_missing_on_mh370/ << 0.o
22:54 assbot 20 Freescale staff on vanished Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 The Register
22:54 mircea_popescu <asciilifeform> counting a shifter as 'xxx gates' worth << how the fuck does that work. bit register shifting ?
22:54 bounce ultimately the APIs it offers need to go since they're badly designed and tricky to use correctly. but you can't exactly do that for a drop-in replacement. this is a low-hanging fruit approach. though the new crew is IMO a better deal than throwing money at the guys that made such a mess of it, as google et al did.
22:55 decimation BingoBoingo: some companies have rules about how many staff can travel on one flight
22:55 TheNewDeal wasn't the last conference like 5 btc entry?
22:55 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: they could it as however many gates it is made of. and conveniently forget to mention that they can't be rewired using the switching matrix (only a rather smallish number of 'generic' gates can)
22:55 mircea_popescu TheNewDeal something like that. but that was in 2013.
22:55 asciilifeform *count it as
22:55 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu> bounce it gets complicated, obviously. tbh i don't have atm an opinion on the libre thing << My read. Watch the chopping for a year or two and see what happens.
22:55 Vexual yeah, the costs of throwing a can of jolt at a $2000 lcd have gone up too, and you need better aim
22:55 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo quite.
22:56 TheNewDeal vexual, what's the drink count at tonight?
22:56 mircea_popescu not so smart making calls on babies, either. l;et them grow first.
22:56 bounce the immediate risk is that they'll be insufferable for a goodly while.
22:57 asciilifeform linked: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/07/15/megumi_igarashi_cuffed
22:57 assbot Japanese artist cuffed for disseminating 3D ladyparts files The Register
22:58 mircea_popescu still this boring woman ?
22:58 * asciilifeform must have missed the first part, if 'still'
22:58 mircea_popescu it's so sad to see the libertard behaviour trying to take hold in otherwise pleasant countries.
22:58 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> not so smart making calls on babies, either. l;et them grow first. << What I like about Deraadt is while Pottering came to make Lindows, De Raadt's came into *nix fascinated with process separation http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/10/07/1097089476287.html?oneclick=true
22:58 assbot Staying on the cutting edge - Technology - theage.com.au
22:58 mircea_popescu there's this failure that aspires to be an artist through pr.
22:58 mircea_popescu she's been doing this for a while now.
22:58 asciilifeform aha, 'pussy riots'
22:59 mircea_popescu not even.
22:59 mircea_popescu at least those are bangable.
22:59 mircea_popescu this tard's like 50.
22:59 asciilifeform !
22:59 asciilifeform lol
22:59 mircea_popescu nubile young women being too stupid to live is almost expected
22:59 mircea_popescu definitely makes one suspicious if they aren't.
23:00 mircea_popescu but by the age of infertility one'd expect even a libertard to wisen up a little.
23:00 asciilifeform suspicious of what ?
23:00 mircea_popescu that's not how suspicious works.
23:01 BingoBoingo decimation: Interesting place to put a limit
23:01 asciilifeform BingoBoingo, decimation: usg has a famous, traditional limit for number of top bureaucrats in one square km.
23:02 decimation my personal opinion is that something bad happened on the jet, oxygen got sucked out before anyone could do much, becomes 'death ship'
23:02 decimation has happened before http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522
23:02 assbot Helios Airways Flight 522 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
23:08 mats_cd03 asciilifeform: http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/qnk18t/we-may-have-problems--but-at-least-we-re-not-jailing-artists-for-3-d-printing-their-vaginas
23:08 assbot We May Have Problems, But at Least We're Not Jailing Artists for 3-D Printing Their Vaginas - The Daily Show - Video Clip | Comedy Central
23:19 mats_cd03 i used to attend these sexual harassment briefings while in .mil
23:20 Vexual dont take your diaper off in polite company?
23:20 mats_cd03 it would typically tend with the audience half-asleep, horrified, or angst-ridden
23:20 asciilifeform mats_cd03: lol, they herded us (contractors) in for the claptrap, too
23:20 mats_cd03 topics included consent while inebriated, with the tag-line often being 'if you're drunk and she's drunk, neither of you can consent, so you're rapin each other up in here'.
23:20 asciilifeform mats_cd03: the only funnier mandatory timewaster was the 'counter-intelligence' one
23:21 Vexual meanwhile the japanese girl is advancing hydrodynamics without even trying
23:21 TomServo 22:20.16 +mats_cd03 | it would typically tend with the audience half-asleep, horrified, or angst-ridden
23:21 mats_cd03 a contractor i worked with had a hearing implant
23:21 mats_cd03 he told me once he would sometimes tune the speakers out... such jealousy
23:22 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26800 @ 0.00074641 = 20.0038 BTC [-]
23:23 mats_cd03 there were a lot of those time wasters.
23:24 decimation I had a friend who was white, married a black woman. he still had to go to the mandatory racial sensitivity class
23:24 mats_cd03 lets see... sexual harassment. counterintelligence. resilience. suicide prevention. equal opportunity.
23:26 mats_cd03 and of course... change of command ceremonies. weekend safety briefs. area beautification.
23:27 mats_cd03 they really don't cover the janitor/babysitter roles in the Army of One commercials.
23:27 asciilifeform mats_cd03: glorious things. esp. when being marched in despite having no conceivable role in the proceedings.
23:27 mats_cd03 i developed a talent for checking out with my eyes open while standing up, though.
23:28 decimation it seems to me that these are fundamentally religious in nature
23:28 mats_cd03 oops... not Army of One anymore. Be All You Can Be? nah that was before. i think its Army Strong now.
23:29 decimation in ancient Rome the equivalent would be how to consult the entrails of a chicken to see if the gods are pleased
23:32 decimation these whiners about bendy iphones are hilarious. we want our iphones paper thin but NOT BENDY!
23:34 mats_cd03 apple's burning cash building a new campus next to cupertino village
23:36 decimation you know, if apple (and the rest of the silly-con valley band) really want to save money, why not relocate to des moines?
23:36 mats_cd03 because they've managed to create a talent vortex in SV
23:36 asciilifeform why would they want to save money ?
23:36 mats_cd03 not a very good one, by some accounts, but still
23:37 decimation asciilifeform: that gets to the root of the problem. I have no idea
23:37 asciilifeform !s stotting
23:37 assbot 2 results for 'stotting' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=stotting
23:37 decimation why does zuckerberg want to beg usg for cheap slave labor?
23:38 Vexual ;;date
23:38 gribble Error: "date" is not a valid command.
23:38 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27268 @ 0.0007463 = 20.3501 BTC [-] {3}
23:39 mats_cd03 i thought it was about getting cheap, _excellent_ slave labor
23:39 mats_cd03 after all, universities in the us are just not producing the candidates they want
23:39 decimation (at the price they like)
23:40 Vexual cheap and subsidised are two different things
23:40 mats_cd03 i would not be surprised if 90% of us CS graduates are unemployable
23:40 Vexual CS?
23:40 Vexual oh
23:42 decimation http://www.asee.org/papers-and-publications/publications/college-profiles/2011-profile-engineering-statistics.pdf
23:42 Vexual yeah knowing what you want is the hardest part
23:43 decimation the us only graduates ~15,000 b.s. degrees in electrical or computer engineering
23:43 Vexual pa?
23:44 Vexual and how many from 15k are worth a pinch of shit?
23:44 Vexual pls interpret this infographic for me
23:45 decimation well, for the price of one whatsapp, facebook could have hired 6 years worth of graduates, pay them each $100k salary and $100k to do something interesting
23:45 Vexual ;;calc 6*15000
23:45 gribble 90000
23:45 asciilifeform !s merit washing
23:45 assbot 11 results for 'merit washing' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=merit+washing
23:45 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.00074619 = 15.8938 BTC [-]
23:46 decimation ;;calc 90000*200e3
23:46 gribble Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
23:46 asciilifeform ^ or propose another explanation for, e.g., reviving 1990s 'man in the iron mask' virtual oculars
23:46 decimation ;;calc 90000*200000
23:46 gribble 18000000000
23:47 decimation asciilifeform: that's a pretty likely hypothesis
23:47 decimation it would explain the derping for immigrants too, if one interprets as 'noblesse oblige'
23:55 Vexual do they still do compuer science degrees?
23:56 asciilifeform Vexual: which 'they' ? here - yes. (though, continuously diluted in the requirements)
23:56 Vexual did you study computer science?
23:56 asciilifeform yes.
23:56 Vexual like 6 months of pascal with a pen?
23:57 decimation Vexual: cs degrees were excluded by the earlier pdf, because it was focused on engineering
23:57 decimation not that I could clearly delineate computer engineering and 'computer science'
23:57 asciilifeform pascal was fashionable when i was in grade school, which is where it was taught
23:57 asciilifeform (it was actually inflicted on my by sibling much earlier)
23:58 Vexual and so you prolly enhanced your university with new concepts?
23:58 asciilifeform ??
23:59 Vexual advanced the cirriculem and all?
23:59 Vexual were you good at it?
23:59 decimation in my experience undergrads were generally ineligible to advance anything
23:59 decimation they are the lowest members of the education bureaucracy
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