Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2018-11-09 | 2018-11-11 → ↓
09:07 asciilifeform ohai Mocky
09:07 Mocky good morning asciilifeform
09:10 Mocky another 9 hours of sleep. now I feel like I'm back to life
09:10 Mocky took the bike out for a spin. had to bundle up, bit of cold shock to my system
09:10 * asciilifeform finally finished rereading ffa, nao preparing ch12 + estimate of just-how-long-to-battlefield promised earlier
~ 21 minutes ~
09:32 asciilifeform in other noose, yet-another http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869662 found : 108.170.1.134
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09:32 a111 Logged on 2018-11-05 22:12 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869615 << aaand anothr, 99.242.113.183
09:32 asciilifeform this makes 7 known.
~ 1 hours 33 minutes ~
11:06 deedbot http://ossasepia.com/2018/11/10/smg-comms-chapter-7-readwrite-serpent-keysets-tofrom-serpent-messages/ << Ossasepia - SMG Comms Chapter 7: Read/Write Serpent Keysets to/from Serpent Messages
~ 20 minutes ~
11:27 mircea_popescu !!rate Mocky 4 ἀποκρισιάριος دولة قطر‎
11:27 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/suPUk/?raw=true
11:28 mircea_popescu !!v CD62A36D1DC3CAB02144BC12622048BC7311B59FC823613AB0A3863CD38B6735
11:28 deedbot mircea_popescu updated rating of Mocky from 3 to 4 << ἀποκρισιάριος دولة قطر‎
11:28 mircea_popescu pai nu ?!
11:30 * asciilifeform lulzily, was actually able to make sense of this mega-orcogram
11:36 asciilifeform diana_coman: ' I admit I am still not 100% sure of the actual, exact representation of such a record containing itself parametrized records since my understanding is that Ada will allocated maximum space (i.e. space to fit potentially the largest structure) ' >> i dug into this when baked 'nqb'. what it does is exactly this, recursively ( for ~each~ subrecord, allocates the maximum possible size ; ditto any subrecords. ) the represen
11:36 asciilifeform tation is exactly as one expects, but if you want the size params to live inside the record and appear in the raw bitz, you gotta make'em members
11:37 asciilifeform diana_coman: imho mircea_popescu's protocol is simple enuff , however, that it doesn't make a gigantic difference that you walk the records explicitly, in re complexity of proggy
11:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform win.
11:40 asciilifeform the parametrized record thing i found to be helpful when eating/shitting gnarly heathen datastructures, in nqb in particular (the block/tx representations) but even there i had to do some explicit serialization
11:41 asciilifeform ( cuz ada is deliberately a 1-pass parser, it does not permit gnarly interdependency between record members that can't be resolved in 1 walk )
11:42 asciilifeform this kinda thing can be frustrating, but imho it helps to remember that ada is ~deliberately~ 'not a haskell', it does not try to 'think for you', but rather leans to 'must be obvious to reader what proggy does'
11:43 mircea_popescu diana_coman is the structure actually problematic ?
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11:48 asciilifeform diana_coman: btw the LSB/MSB/LMSB thing can be made slightly clearer / less-ctronic by actually making'em into 1-bit members of the record; gnat will do The Right Thing re padding
11:49 mircea_popescu elegant takes a single l while at it.
11:49 mircea_popescu (i agree, it makes no sense, it's a strong l. but english has no conception.)
11:52 asciilifeform diana_coman: and while we're nitpicking, Serpent message types can be an enumeration (see barnes)
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11:53 asciilifeform ( http://www.adaic.org/resources/add_content/standards/05rm/html/RM-3-5-1.html )
11:56 asciilifeform also how come you need procedure Cast_LE( LE: in out Raw_Types.Octets ) ? i thought the algo was 'if message invalid, flip endianism in whole thing and re-eval before discard'
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11:56 asciilifeform that way needs 0 awareness of native endianism ( or remote )
11:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu what do you see when you grep for Shift_Right(Result ?
11:58 asciilifeform i think there's a html inbandism booby in there ( but possibly only in graphic browser ? )
11:59 mircea_popescu $ curl http://www.adaic.org/resources/add_content/standards/05rm/html/RM-3-5-1.html | grep "Shift_Right(Result"
11:59 mircea_popescu % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current
11:59 mircea_popescu Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed
11:59 mircea_popescu 100 10178 100 10178 0 0 2621 0 0:00:03 0:00:03 --:--:-- 26925
11:59 mircea_popescu ie, nothing.
11:59 asciilifeform nono
11:59 asciilifeform in diana_coman's article
11:59 mircea_popescu Result := Shift_Right(Result, <img src='http://ossasepia.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> xor
12:00 mircea_popescu diana_coman your guy has smileys kek.
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12:00 asciilifeform lol
12:00 asciilifeform i had nfi this was in mp's-wp!11
12:01 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you can define hooks for replacement. i suspect this might be a theme thing. mine replaces gpg code with fixed format... apparently her theme replaces :)
12:01 asciilifeform aa yea i recall, for signed comments
12:02 mircea_popescu right.
12:02 asciilifeform ( i backported this to my wp, incidentally , so far the only mpwp item i did this for )
12:02 mircea_popescu pretty fucking useful.
12:02 asciilifeform verily
~ 1 hours 26 minutes ~
13:28 mod6 hola
13:35 BingoBoingo Comó andas?
13:36 mod6 Bien.
13:37 mod6 y tu?
13:39 BingoBoingo Tranquilo
13:40 mod6 :]
~ 15 minutes ~
13:56 deedbot http://qntra.net/2018/11/malibu-burns/ << Qntra - Malibu Burns
14:07 mircea_popescu because it's totally "normal" for your fucking house to burn, dumb piggy, and it's "an event" which "happens", and there's no such thing as agency in zeklands and so on.
14:07 mircea_popescu in another decade, "find out which celebrity hasn't had running water this week"
14:09 BingoBoingo Sure it'll take that long. This is KKKalifornia
14:10 mircea_popescu nuts.
14:11 BingoBoingo Could be two years and their new governor Gavin decides no water for anyone
14:12 mircea_popescu water is too white amirite.
14:12 mircea_popescu new pepsi black, has what plants crave.
~ 15 minutes ~
14:28 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870620 -nitpick away! I actually DID consider that and I decided it's not really fitting because think of it: if I make it enumeration that *also* means you can actually go succ and prev which however isn't something that makes sense for message types; it's not like they are an actual ordered thing
14:28 a111 Logged on 2018-11-10 16:52 asciilifeform: diana_coman: and while we're nitpicking, Serpent message types can be an enumeration (see barnes)
14:29 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870634 -> lol, I'll fix
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14:29 a111 Logged on 2018-11-10 17:00 mircea_popescu: diana_coman your guy has smileys kek.
14:31 mircea_popescu i honestly don't understand why ada doesn't have native support for structured data.
14:32 mircea_popescu diana_coman would it be smart if i defined the count types narrowly ? ie, bitwise ?
14:32 mircea_popescu "no fucker, this isn't an "int", this is a 15 bit counter"
14:33 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870616 - I don't think the structure in itself is problematic; I think it's simply the serialize-in-one-go that doesn't mix well with any flexibility at all
14:33 a111 Logged on 2018-11-10 16:43 mircea_popescu: diana_coman is the structure actually problematic ?
14:33 * mircea_popescu is not at all adverse to permitting ada metasyntactic considerations leak into the protocol. there's no rule specwork gotta happen in meta-c.
14:34 diana_coman I'm not sure what would the bitwise thing buy exactly?
14:34 mircea_popescu point in case, defining variable in "bitsize". why am i not simply saying "this is a counter from 1 to 19" or w/e ?
14:34 mircea_popescu then the "it allocates whyole counter" becomes nonproblem.
14:34 diana_coman well, that IS what I said though, lol
14:34 diana_coman at implementation time that is how I define the counter for keyset for instance
14:34 diana_coman it isn't a "8-bit value"
14:35 diana_coman but 1 to 40
14:35 mircea_popescu diana_coman specifically, why doesn't http://trilema.com/2018/euloras-communication-protocol-restated/#selection-195.0-195.48 simply say "from 1 to 15" or w/e it is ?
14:37 mircea_popescu then a) ada should allocate this as a 4 bit value and b) ada allocating space for 15 records is entirely fine anyway. with a being a very minor point but b being a major point because we've reoriented ourselves to where features of the language are indistinct rather than inconvenient. this is very much the http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1505418 thing.
14:37 a111 Logged on 2016-07-19 14:07 mircea_popescu: the basic, and really only, rule of hermeneutics is : that then you've understood a text when, far from its shortcomings appearing inexplicable errors, they become the actual pillars upon which the damned thing is constructed, and what originally seemed to you sensible and structural takes its true place as accidental.
14:37 diana_coman you're asking me? lol; look at implementation that it becomes exactly that: http://ossasepia.com/2018/11/10/smg-comms-chapter-7-readwrite-serpent-keysets-tofrom-serpent-messages/#selection-71.1721-71.1777
14:40 diana_coman mircea_popescu, the problem (if there is one) is not space in itself for sure
14:41 diana_coman for one thing the solution as implemented is perfectly fine; sure, not a one-line record'write or something like that but not a terrible thing either
14:42 diana_coman for the other I really don't see how exactly to have at the same time flexible size (specifying n and then n* IS flexible size) AND record'write
14:42 diana_coman basically the only way is that: put always max and just write somewhere how much of that is actually meaningful
14:43 diana_coman in which case fine, it can perhaps even work like that for most messages except stuff that has max>message size and/or stuff that has meaningful data *after* this variable part
14:49 mircea_popescu diana_coman the reason n is there is to tell you how much data is useful. what if you fixed n to max at depack size, and then delivered n=max records to application, and it is ITS job to discard the extras ?
14:49 mircea_popescu or does this just move the problem really ?
14:50 diana_coman this is what I had in mind; it helps but: diana_coman> in which case fine, it can perhaps even work like that for most messages except stuff that has max>message size and/or stuff that has meaningful data *after* this variable part
14:51 diana_coman i.e. it should be the last thing in the message
14:51 mircea_popescu why ?
14:51 diana_coman so that the "not meaningful" is essentially padding
14:51 diana_coman uhm, maybe I don't get what you mean then
14:51 diana_coman if you have n and then n*x and then something else
14:52 diana_coman it's not going to fit "max", is it?
14:52 mircea_popescu otoh i don't really want all the structure at one side of message for crypto-shamanistic considerations.
14:52 diana_coman if you have however n and then max and then whatever then sure, yes
14:52 mircea_popescu the idea was to define n as a ada-style var, "from 1 to 19"
14:52 mircea_popescu not as a c-style var, "6 bits"
14:54 diana_coman that in itself doesn't solve the issue
14:55 diana_coman in implementation it gets defined as such although it still gets represented on 8 bits because thus specified; logically speaking it shouldn't be on 8 bits to represent ...40 max so yes, it makes sense to say, pack
14:55 diana_coman but the issue was re what follows
14:55 diana_coman if it is described as a variable length i.e. n* ... then it's variable, what can I do
14:56 diana_coman the only other option is to say it's always nmax*...
15:05 mircea_popescu right. and you can make it always nmax
15:05 asciilifeform diana_coman: it's perfectly permissible to define, e.g., subtype foo 1 .. 40 of a 2**5 modular type that lives in 5bits; and catch the out-of-range eggog when reading it
15:05 mircea_popescu because whatever is there extra is padding. so instead of returning 6 correct records and discarding 2 records' worth of padding, you return 8 records, and let the application asking for records figure out that "6" means it needn't process 7 and 8
15:06 diana_coman yes, that's what I had in mind; and I think it does solve the problem because it effectively fixes the size, yes
15:12 mircea_popescu only question is if this gains anything or just pushes some garbage downstream
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15:12 asciilifeform btw diana_coman , i repeatedly refer to 'nqb' but it not yet got genesis'd, i did however gnathtml-ize it for reference : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/nqb/index.htm fwiw
15:14 diana_coman mircea_popescu, myeah, whether there IS a problem really or not quite
15:18 mircea_popescu tbh this is a fundamental issue here anyway. data serialization, we haven't invented, it isn't going away. gotta set down a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1764004 thing for "how we expect you to serialize".
15:18 a111 Logged on 2018-01-04 17:38 mircea_popescu: anyway, absent this logical rule, we'll do what, add "wordwrap(magicnumber" in the unloved v style manual ?
15:18 mircea_popescu to be used generally, eg when we replace php lol.
15:19 mircea_popescu prolly should've been less of an asshole, linked http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865314 instead. but anyway.
15:19 a111 Logged on 2018-10-23 06:31 mircea_popescu: slowly but surely a republican ada style manual is shaping up (and through the exact http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-23#1865304 process, at that!)
15:19 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: fwiw i've found that the ada standard serialization, with the streams, does in fact work as specified. however i have not used in battlefield, remains to be properly exercised.
15:21 mircea_popescu moreover, THIS is what a language.io stdlib should even fucking be in the first place.
15:21 asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/pub/nqb/varints__adb.htm is example. ( actually worx )
15:21 mircea_popescu "do it like this because smarter people than you sat down once and figured it ALL out, and go read logs if you have issues"
15:24 asciilifeform ( for ref -- 'nqb' in last test ate the 1st 500k blox, correctly recomputed their tx hashes; then subjected it to random bit-flippage, correctly barfed in each test )
15:34 diana_coman http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870659 - as far as I can tell it's actually a WordPress "feature" where it converts text smileys to graphic images (the 8) is "cool") ; I disabled it now from Settings->Writing, if anyone else runs into this shit
15:34 a111 Logged on 2018-11-10 19:29 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870634 -> lol, I'll fix
15:35 mircea_popescu Mocky_ incidentally, now that you've rested, spending a few weeks publishing fleshouts / completing things / etc will be invaluable.
15:35 mircea_popescu get that memory in bit format before it volatiles away.
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15:37 mircea_popescu http://mocky.org/Log-Reference-Why-Ada/ << did we ever discuss this ? :D
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15:51 diana_coman I suppose this http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870622 is linked to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-14#1850462 but I fail to see/recall some agreement that "we now first try as it is, then if it fails, try flipped"
15:51 a111 Logged on 2018-11-10 16:56 asciilifeform: also how come you need procedure Cast_LE( LE: in out Raw_Types.Octets ) ? i thought the algo was 'if message invalid, flip endianism in whole thing and re-eval before discard'
15:51 a111 Logged on 2018-09-14 17:09 mircea_popescu: iirc we even had a discussion re standardizing a byte order ; though from the fact that i don't recall the results i take it i got shown broken cats.
15:53 diana_coman I suppose better link is http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-14#1850415
15:53 a111 Logged on 2018-09-14 16:27 asciilifeform: to round out thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-14#1850330 << in my orig udp attempt, i dispensed with the traditional 'gotta be in network byte order (tm)' doctrine, in favour of 'if packet doesn't pass muster, THEN flip the endianism and try again 1ce'
15:56 mircea_popescu diana_coman screw that, what "tries"
15:57 diana_coman I also don't get why to do that really, hence current code that doesn't do it, no; (what it does is to simply check if local machine is big endian in which case it flips octets of anything on more than 1 octet)
15:58 diana_coman I suppose the idea there was to *not* specify byte order at all
15:58 diana_coman hence try because you ..don't know in which byte order it is
15:59 diana_coman so perhaps I get the *why* but I don't buy it for a communication protocol, just why to "not know"
16:06 asciilifeform iirc it was mircea_popescu who orig suggested the algo to me
16:06 * asciilifeform digs in l0gz..
16:07 asciilifeform so far found http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-14#1850460 thrd
16:07 a111 Logged on 2018-09-14 17:09 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-14#1850418 << yes, none of that.
16:08 asciilifeform formula was, there are 2 possible states, 'as it came' and 'flipped', and at most 1 of these can ever pass checksum
16:08 asciilifeform so you find which one does, and beyond that there is no reason to ever think about endianism
16:08 asciilifeform ( i.e. 2 boxes with opposite endianisms, can speak , via this algo, without any other endian-specific logics )
16:09 Mocky http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870721 >> aye
16:09 a111 Logged on 2018-11-10 20:35 mircea_popescu: get that memory in bit format before it volatiles away.
16:10 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870722 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-22#1816466
16:10 a111 Logged on 2018-11-10 20:37 mircea_popescu: http://mocky.org/Log-Reference-Why-Ada/ << did we ever discuss this ? :D
16:10 a111 Logged on 2018-05-22 03:57 asciilifeform: !!rate Mocky 1 'why ada'
16:10 asciilifeform ( excellent log walk, imho )
16:19 * asciilifeform recently had the pleasure of rereading Mocky's 'why ada'. turns it the walk to ada was longer/thornier than asciilifeform remembers it being
16:20 mod6 An update on Pizarro's statement for October: BingoBoingo has a draft, of which I've poured through. We seem to have more BTC on hand then is adding up at the moment. So we're going to be auditing some previous statements to see where the problem might be.
~ 18 minutes ~
16:38 mircea_popescu mod6 coming on the heels of the misspecced auction and so on, this looks terrifying.
16:39 mircea_popescu are you going for the mismanagement triple crown or what is it with you ?
16:39 BingoBoingo It's a grind
16:40 mircea_popescu the grind is going the wrong way. from "you realise these dudes haven't managed to publish a report on time yet" the expectation is "well, next month they will", not "and next month -- new math!"
16:52 asciilifeform mod6: he's right, y'know. and at this point i would not be averse to spending some coin and hiring an l1 accountant, if the necessary hero arises ( jurov ? hanbot ? )
16:54 asciilifeform incidentally what's the status of ben_vulpes ? is he still spending all of his time building fence around old house, or what was it
16:54 asciilifeform !#seen ben_vulpes
16:54 a111 2018-11-04 <ben_vulpes> will be making new contacts in the next month to find a shared cab for racking the foundation machine i lugged across the continent
16:54 mircea_popescu at some point along the way mod6 has turned from "heart of reliability, solid fellow" to "everything this guy touches will explode in shocking ways and half the time silently". i wish to identify when this happened ; i wish to indentify how and why it happened. and i wish it fucking fixed, preferably right the fuck immediately what the fuck.
16:55 * asciilifeform brb,meat
16:58 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> mod6 coming on the heels of the misspecced auction and so on, this looks terrifying. << Yeah, I screwed up the auction. I apologize. We had hoped to get some oversight on the last months statement from pizarro but it didn't happen. It might not even be incorrect, and BingoBoingo's draft might not be even incorrect.
16:58 mod6 I just have very little clue on this accounting stuff. And other things, it's apparent.
16:58 mircea_popescu oversight from whom ?
16:58 mod6 ben_vulpes was going to look it over, but I don't think he had a chance.
16:59 mod6 jurov didn't want to touch pizarro or its accounting. so that's out, I tried to hire him months ago.
16:59 mircea_popescu right.
16:59 mircea_popescu in the traditional structure of business, the manager is the manager and the board provides oversight. if the ~board~ itself needs oversight, well, generally it gets reshuffled. cuz that's what it is, the final overseer.
17:00 mod6 mircea_popescu: I'm sorry you've lost faith in me, and if I could some how fix it, I would. The only thing I can figure that is wrong here is that I'm in way over my head.
17:00 hanbot fwiw mod6 still figures as "heart of reliability, solid fellow" in my book. he stepped up to some (afaik alien to him) challenges lately and while it may be rough going, i've never seen a drop in commitment from the guy. just sayin'.
17:00 mircea_popescu hanbot the idea of this here republic isn't "the cult of wearing blessed pants". that's mormonism. nor is it "the cult of all reading the new yorker". that's pantsuitism. the idea of this republic is, "we're going to GROW WITH IT".
17:01 mircea_popescu it started as a modest token on a "magic : the gathering" exchange, and it is moving to take over the world. it requires GROWTH.
17:01 mircea_popescu gotta learn new things, and be damn good at them. gotta go new places. gotta master new things. it's entirely what it is. all it is.
17:03 mod6 I am trying to learn all of this stuff ; It has been difficult as some things come easy for me, but a lot of what is important in what I think you're frustrated with has not come easy.
17:03 hanbot mircea_popescu: surething. i'm saying i don't think growing pains == unreliability in any sense.
17:04 mod6 The acution for instance, was just a careless oversight on my part. But the accounting stuff, this is something pretty far out of my wheelhouse.
17:04 mod6 I'm trying to get both BingoBoingo and myself better at this -- but as it is, it's like the blind leading the blind.
17:04 mircea_popescu mod6 i'll tell you, it is fucking painful to have to argue n times over the "here's auction system fucking use it". alf in his worse days, years ago, presented similar challenges. makes me feel like i'm fucking pushing the grain into the chicken, why the fuck would i, let it fucking starve.
17:05 mod6 (no offense to BingoBoingo who's doing as good of a job as can be expected with not much to go on)
17:05 mircea_popescu it's infuriating to see movements a la "oh, ima hijack this foundation thingee to crash your standards process", whether meant as that or not.
17:05 mircea_popescu and in general, i can't fathom as we stand right now whence your troubles come.
17:06 mod6 what do you mean about the 'hijack the foundation standards process' ?
17:06 mircea_popescu in a most remote, theoretical principle it'd be something like "well, he's either a) lazy or else b) committed to not getting out of a confort zone he delineated silently and that's that or c) he's overwhelmed". now which of these is it ?
17:07 mircea_popescu i said hijach ~the foundation~ to crash ~my~ standards process.
17:07 mod6 is this in reference to the keccak vtree?
17:07 mircea_popescu yes.
17:08 mod6 I think this was just a misunderstanding, poor communication on my part.
17:08 mircea_popescu having your hands on the levers of power means that, "whether meant as such or not", what you do is what you do.
17:08 mod6 I want to do this, and get a keccak vtree. I think I said as much at the time, just wanted to ensure that keccak was in working order before we moved to it. I thought that to be the most prudent thing to do.
17:08 mircea_popescu i get it, not meant as such.
17:09 mircea_popescu moving on : which of the three is it then ?
17:10 mod6 Well, I think I have a lot on my plate, and we've discussed that. So I'd say 'c'. Overwhelmed. Too much to work on, and not enough time/hands to do it in.
17:10 mod6 But maybe others disagree. I don't think it's 'a'.
17:10 mircea_popescu do me a favour and publish a week's timetable retrospective and the coming week's prospective on your blog ?
17:11 mircea_popescu gotta get into the nitty gritty of this, because i gotta tell you, i publish, on time and for years, 3x or more of the report count you have, and it's a few hours' worth if that.
17:11 mircea_popescu gotta find what exactly is fucking you over before it actually does fuck you over.
17:12 mod6 Well, in regards to the statement, specifically, I only got the draft of the statement from BingoBoingo on the 7th. And been going through it since then.
17:13 mircea_popescu "what i have been doing, nov 4th - november 11th" ; "what i intend to be doing, nov 11th - nov 18th".
17:15 mod6 Alright. I'll put together a blog post.
17:16 mircea_popescu ty.
~ 1 hours 35 minutes ~
18:51 deedbot http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2735 << Loper OS - Finite Field Arithmetic Projected Release Timeline.
18:51 asciilifeform ^ mircea_popescu , diana_coman , other potential ffa eaters ^
18:52 mircea_popescu asciilifeform my problem with "trying" is that you're stuck trying your serpent keys on stuff.
18:52 mircea_popescu nice!
18:55 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: serpent's constanttime tho
18:55 mircea_popescu but slow.
18:55 asciilifeform is it ?
18:55 asciilifeform hm
18:55 mircea_popescu in order to support diff endianism i gotta pay the cost of processing twice.
18:55 mircea_popescu i dunno i like alt-endian systems enough to support them\
18:55 mircea_popescu besides -- let them build in converters.
18:55 mircea_popescu cost on them.
18:56 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you only gotta 'process twice' for rubbish packets ( if legit fella has bigendian, he gets 'twiced' once and flag is set for his connection ) but yes
18:56 mircea_popescu (speaking of -- tmsr.net will be sane endian, not historical-endian, also)
18:56 asciilifeform this is legit, ' mircea_popescu's server is little-endian and if your client aint, flip ~yours~ )
18:56 asciilifeform '
18:56 mircea_popescu one of the few advantages of the client-server model.
18:56 asciilifeform ftr i still dun have a bigendian box to even try any of this with.
18:57 mircea_popescu nor diana nor can i be arsed to dig through mp's packed museum
18:57 asciilifeform ( i got one coming in a week or so, tho, for ffa exhaustive tests )
19:03 asciilifeform !#s 46.4.97.119
19:03 a111 0 results for "46.4.97.119", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=46.4.97.119
19:03 asciilifeform ^ yet-another http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-10#1870599 -ism
19:03 a111 Logged on 2018-11-10 14:32 asciilifeform: in other noose, yet-another http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-05#1869662 found : 108.170.1.134
19:04 asciilifeform btw if nobody indicates giving a damn, i'ma leave off cataloging these, i can't think of any use for'em
19:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: re 'bigendian box' -- i invested in one of them 'asic emulator' mega-fpga thingies, it so happens to come with 2 ppc cores on board, can double as bigendism test system.
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19:10 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: after ffa/p beta rollout, i'ma be at yer service for the next thing ( fg2? tmsr.mips ? radio ? or other, take yer pick )
19:10 asciilifeform plenty of time to think.
19:13 mircea_popescu you don't feel like moving to uruguay, trying to get a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-24#1844323 off the ground i take it ?
19:13 a111 Logged on 2018-08-24 18:39 mircea_popescu: a shop of used computer parts is a great complement for a dc op.
19:14 asciilifeform not just yet
19:14 asciilifeform ( and imho it's a somewhat dubious item, it isn't clear to me that anyone outside of us in BingoBoingostan actually ~uses computer~ )
19:15 mircea_popescu at that level of abstraction, leaking the empire's artefacts selectively into the frankistans is god's work.
19:15 asciilifeform there were quite tall piles of iron at the flea market, and nobody was buying ( i walked for ~4h and it appears to have moved not an inch )
19:15 mircea_popescu yes but oddly he can never seem to source anything locally.
19:16 asciilifeform besides, if i make my escape to BingoBoingostan, who will ferry the irons from ebayistan in suitcases.
19:16 mircea_popescu you lol.
19:17 mircea_popescu contrary to your "i have no marketable skills" claims, it turns out you were quite successful at nontrivial task.
19:17 asciilifeform erry dog knows 1 trick, heh
19:17 mircea_popescu considering that the average-without-you was pretty sorry indeed.
19:17 asciilifeform now if them monkeys actually knew what to do with comps...
19:19 asciilifeform i'm thinking the terraformed-c101pa is potentially saleable tho.
19:20 mircea_popescu alternatively, you could do a mocky, but @shenzen.
19:20 asciilifeform ( and even the serpent disk thing, even, if we ever get around to baking it )
19:23 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: presently i have a quite rare & advantageous ( 0 commute ) saecular throne i'd rather not yet vacate
19:23 asciilifeform but shenzhen is attractive, gotta learn moar hieroglyphs tho
19:24 mircea_popescu otherwise you're rather in the position of the fellow who's dedicated his life to studying catholic architecture but never visited spain.
19:24 asciilifeform indeed
19:24 asciilifeform or classicist who never turkeyed
19:24 mircea_popescu and so on
19:24 asciilifeform verily
19:25 asciilifeform i knew it is in the cards when we first spoke seriously of baking ic, tho, so picked up (cutting through considerable loathing for hieroglyph..) the subj, a while back.
19:26 mircea_popescu im not even so sure hieroglyphs per se are either arequirement or even useful.
19:26 asciilifeform now i'm curious. how wouldja propose to get by without'em ? ask for contracts etc in the king's engl ?!
19:27 asciilifeform i thought the basic winning theorem of orc-craft was to go in as a properly-literate, vs. 'idjit englisher'
19:27 mircea_popescu all the useful anthropological information (such as http://mocky.org/Zombies-Gamers-and-Lost-Souls/ ) will not be found in the http://trilema.com/2018/actual-anthropology-yet-another-minor-function-of-the-functioning-harem/#selection-89.21-89.37 morons' spew.
19:27 mircea_popescu the squigglies, like garnish, once you're in consolidation phase.
19:27 mircea_popescu asciilifeform in their own eyes englisher is supremely literate.
19:28 asciilifeform there is a considerable, btw, number of ru folx working with cn . possibly also angle.
19:29 * asciilifeform quite ill-versed, presently, in matters cn, this will have to be corrected
19:31 mircea_popescu prolly great angle, really.
19:31 mircea_popescu use ru to dig in.
19:31 mod6 http://mod6.net/2018/November/10/timetable_first_half_nov.txt
19:31 asciilifeform from ru folx's reports 'from the ground' , would seem that it is less of a 'miamistan' than Mocky's arabs, typical folx, even moneyed, not deeply into english. but ru is diff matter.
19:31 mircea_popescu i could see why.
19:31 asciilifeform oh wow mod6's diary
19:32 mod6 The times that I've put in there are a bit subject, my irc client runs on UTC time, and the logs the same, and we've had DLST here this week. I've tried to be as honest with the thing as I can be.
19:32 * asciilifeform takes off hat
19:33 * mircea_popescu was mostly looking for republican hours, rather than everything, but nothing wrong with item as is.
19:33 asciilifeform mod6 i marvel that you are able to do anyffing! mine consists largely of 'eat','sleep','fuck','xx hours at console'
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19:34 mod6 As I said, I do not have much time. I do what I can. But I know it's not good enough.
19:34 asciilifeform tho i did have to clear jungle today, it was approaching impassable
19:35 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> there were quite tall piles of iron at the flea market, and nobody was buying ( i walked for ~4h and it appears to have moved not an inch ) << asciilifeform has a hell of an eye, the local ebayazon suggests richer variety of golden junk in Argentina
19:35 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> yes but oddly he can never seem to source anything locally. << Slowly improving
19:36 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: recall mircea_popescu's minitower in argentina ?
19:36 BingoBoingo And on this note at the end of the month girl will be visiting her Tía in Argentina. Anyone have shopping list items they want investigated?
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19:36 asciilifeform recall what passes for a comp there
19:37 mod6 BingoBoingo: I'm gonna look at your invoice numbers now.
19:37 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: 8tb hdds; preferably 'seagate'
19:37 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: For example if you want a PPC machine to test big endian, all your choices in Uruguay are notebooks with old firehazard batteries. Argentina has "Mac Mini G4"
19:38 asciilifeform mod6: plz dun assume that i am ignoring your mails ! was tied up with straightening own '10 pounds of shit in 1 pound bag', will attend to them asap
19:39 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i'm presently unconvinced that crapple iron with the horsepower of a rk but the footprint of pc, belongs in the rack ( tho will listen to reason if anybody wants to argue the opposite, or for that matter contract to colo one )
19:39 mod6 asciilifeform: alright
19:40 mircea_popescu so to summarize : 1. one hour (!?) wrangling with auctionbot on the 4th (the result still wrong) ; 2. 2 hours handling three conflated processes (why do you keep notes as an intermediate step ?) on the 5th ; 3. 1 hour reading logs on the 6th ; 4. half hour reading logs on the 7th ; 5. 1.3 h mostly brainstorming on the 8th ? ; 6. half hour doing... i don't know what on the 9th ; 7. 4 (four ?!) hours doing i still don't know wh
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19:40 mircea_popescu at ; 8. 2 hours preparing and publishing some data to give base to future rescue op.
19:40 mircea_popescu is this correct then ?
19:41 mod6 Let me work through it here...
19:41 mircea_popescu because it'd seem to me your week consists by this logic of 12 to 13 hours of, making the timetable (15%), reading logs (13%), and it's not clear to me what (75%).
19:42 mod6 #1 was halfhour. i remember it being not 3 seconds because I had to look up the bot commands and try to get that correct, etc. despite the fact that I made it for the wrong amount.
19:42 mircea_popescu how you manage to cram a week's worth of logs in an hour and a half for instance is anyone's guess, god knows my girls don't manage -- it eats in excess of 10 hours weekly, and noobs such as the bimbo are well over the 25 hour mark week in week out.
19:42 mircea_popescu what's anyone's experience btw ? cca how long does it take to ~keep current~ with logs on a weekly basis ?
19:42 mod6 Well, as for the logs, I read what I can on the train.
19:43 mod6 So usually that leaves 30min-1hour per night, sometimes more depending on the size. Sometimes I fall down a well in the logs if i'm looking for something specific related to any number of things: pizarro, foundation, ada, ffa, who knows.
19:43 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i 'cheat' by having logs on dedicated panel in peripheral vision at all times when awake. but when waking up sometimes 20-30min catchup, ditto when venturing into meatspace and returning (for as much as whole day ) can be >hr
19:43 mircea_popescu happens to me also.
19:43 mircea_popescu both of these lol.
19:44 asciilifeform i also have a portable gsm heathen thing that displays logs (but i do not like to speak through it)
19:44 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> what's anyone's experience btw ? cca how long does it take to ~keep current~ with logs on a weekly basis ? << I do anywhere from 2 to nearly 4 hours a day on logs when rabbitholing is factored in
19:44 mircea_popescu god knows i sank hours into documentary wells for various edge discussions (bout half of which end up published, mostly because i'm fascist with "in other news" style segues ; but many do not, as it's "yup, was right" or such)
19:45 mircea_popescu mod6 it seems a necessary that you're overwhelmed, if your time budged to do TWO board jobs AND logs is about half what people use to do just the latter part.
19:45 mod6 for #2: We keep the notes so we know what's going on with all the customer accounts, our ledgers, and general information about on-goings of the business. This is necessary so we don't have to log-spelunk everything. Logs don't work all the time, like right now, the logging for #pizarro is down.
19:46 mod6 brb, being called awayh
19:47 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: iirc mod6 has 2 ( 3? 4? ) children, even. but soldiers on.
19:47 mircea_popescu i am not impugning the man.
19:48 mircea_popescu now about this missing payment... did i not pay something ?
19:48 mircea_popescu !!received-invoices
19:48 deedbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Riwj5/?raw=true
19:48 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: You have an open invoice for the S.MG test machine
19:49 asciilifeform btw the inventory shows that disks are available for that machine, if mircea_popescu & co want it fully en-disked.
19:49 BingoBoingo The disks are indeed available
19:49 mircea_popescu a dang, sorry about that.
19:50 mircea_popescu i seriously ate hours of your combined time because forgot to send a v ?
19:50 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: My inclination is to wait and ping when we send the next round of invoices, but the man is overwhelmed
19:51 mircea_popescu !!pay-invoice BingoBoingo 2
19:51 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Yu9L8/?raw=true
19:51 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo seems entirely reasonable to me tbh.
19:53 mircea_popescu is this the "accounting issue" then ? or was there more to the mystery ?
19:55 mod6 for #3 Again, yeah, I'm sure I did it, may have been an hour. More or less. Those two days (6th and 7th), I recall being pretty busy, but other than the usual stuff, I can't really what I got distracted by.
19:55 mod6 *can't really recall what I got distracted by
19:55 BingoBoingo The accounting issue is mod6 has more Pizarro cash than the October draft statement calculated by applying the net change to the previous month's cash account says he should.
19:55 mod6 Which also covers #4
19:56 mod6 # 5: Yes, that's pretty much accurate
19:56 * asciilifeform bbl, cycling through the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-11#1870866 register
19:56 a111 Logged on 2018-11-11 00:33 asciilifeform: mod6 i marvel that you are able to do anyffing! mine consists largely of 'eat','sleep','fuck','xx hours at console'
19:57 mircea_popescu mod6 the two prongs of the problem seem to be, principally that you have a lot less time available for this than ~most everyone else, by a factor of 2 or more ; and secondarily that elementary tasks that should take an hour or thereabouts take you multiples, by a factor of 3 or 5 or who knows.
19:57 mod6 #6 Yes, what I did is in the blog-post there.
19:57 mircea_popescu given this articulation, i agree with asciilifeform , it's a wonder you can keep functioning / managed as long as you have.
19:57 mod6 #7 yes, is accurate.
19:58 mod6 I'm fairly busy, yea.
19:58 BingoBoingo When I started helping mod6 transition out of the intermin management responsibility, I erred judging that keeping mod6 in charge of the cash account would distribute stress instead of amplifying it. My bad.
19:59 mod6 Normally I do tend to work slow so I ensure that my work is accurate, despite recent fuck-ups, which I agree with MP, are not my normal thing. But yes, I'm way overloaded. And it's been hard to keep up with anything foundation related since Pizarro. Especially since Ben left.
20:00 mod6 I'd have to say, I was just doing enough to get us by with the Foundation (library) stuff before Pizarro. Much less, even getting a Stanford and world-class embassy.
20:02 mod6 I have the hunger to do much. But I fear that I've bitten off more than I can chew -- especially with things that are not in my wheelhouse that really take-away time, or slow down other progress. This being accounting things, or other management stuff.
20:03 mod6 I remember when keeping up with the logs + trb + v really felt like a ton of stuff. But that stuff has been wholesale replaced + some even, by pizarro.
20:03 mod6 The sad part is, I was good at the former stuff, not so good at the latter stuff.
20:11 BingoBoingo mod6: With respect to Pizarro, you probably ought to just focus on reconciling the cash account to account for the surplus. As you have time to spend on that task.
20:13 BingoBoingo But as overstuffed as your agenda is, that pressure can't help your error rate.
20:26 mod6 Yeah, I'm gonna try to stick to the schedule I posted, and get some food now. When I get back, I'll work on the accounting surplus.
20:34 BingoBoingo Once the surplus is accounted for, make your next Pizarro priority a beach vacation before fall hits and the water gets cold. Arrive on a Friday or Saturday to get your odinsleep, we'll hit up the Feria Sunday and tour the rack Sunday or Monday. After you comfort yourself through seeing the hardware I'll put you on a bus to see all those cool beaches on the east coast I hear so much about but don't have the opportunity to check out
20:34 BingoBoingo myself.
20:37 BingoBoingo The familial relationship of Concubine is recognized under Uruguayo law. I am pretty sure the icy north recognizes Shariah law (as established in Rotterdam) by now, so if the local government frowns upon the relationship you develop with a Chileña you can tell them to respect your cultural differences.
20:42 BingoBoingo Maybe you bring some hardware down, but keep it low stress if you do.
20:44 BingoBoingo Also, ice cream.
20:52 BingoBoingo AND NOW WE HAVE UNEXPLAINED FIREWORKS STORM
20:55 BingoBoingo Not New Years quality, but Christmas quality
20:55 mircea_popescu mod6 the problem with "accounting things" is that they're a fundamental life skill ; i can scarcely imagine how you get through the days of your life without as much accounting as is here required. think that you're not asked to upload in head the many volumes of gaap arcana, but merely some very basic "this plus that is the other" sorta stuff, and the complaint sounds somewhat like gravedigger's disdain of readin', takes tim
20:55 mircea_popescu e away from diggin'.
20:55 BingoBoingo Definitely more than for any World Cup round
~ 34 minutes ~
21:30 mod6 mircea_popescu: fair enough. ben said something to me on the phone, "double entry accounting". I don't even know what that is. But, my guess is that I'm supposed to know.
21:31 mod6 At one point, I could balance my checkbook. Now, I don't even do that, computer does it for me.
21:31 mod6 So my accounting skillz, are basically epsilon.
21:32 mod6 Got a lot to learn I guess. But this is totally something I've never even thought about before.
21:36 mod6 I wanted to hire an accountant / CFO / whatever for the work, even back when ben was working on Pizarro -- so he could focus more on sales. But no takers.
21:36 mod6 But, well, here we are.
21:36 mod6 Anyway, i'm gonna be looking for that error.
~ 59 minutes ~
22:36 lobbes mod6: the key idea behind double-entry accounting is that for every transaction you are involving at least two accounts. E.g. If you pay your water bill from your checking account you'd record a decrease (credit) to your checking account, and record an increase (debit) to your water bill expense account
22:36 lobbes benefit being that over time you have all of your various things accounted for in different piles. Can answer business questions like "how much did I pay for water between time t0 and t1?" really easily
22:37 BingoBoingo lobbes: How does your schedule look over the next 3 months?
22:39 lobbes I'ma be doing the holiday travel thing for a week this month and a week next month. Other than that, just the usual $saltmine 9-5 and then squeezing in republican workload where able
22:52 BingoBoingo lobbes: I ask because it is clear Republican outreach has dropped since cazalla retired and danielpbarron turned hard towards his other cult
23:01 trinque mod6: you don't need a CFO to count the amount of money you guys are moving
23:02 trinque you need to quit circumambulating and run some ads, contact folks you think might be good candidates for clients, literally anything
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23:05 trinque and more fundamentally, consider that when you persist in doing things the wrong way (like, do you even have a spreadsheet for this thing) you're probably caught in an avoidance loop of the "I don't even want to be doing this" variety
23:05 lobbes gnucash ftw!
23:06 lobbes BingoBoingo: on the other hand, we have Mocky who just returned from some serious outreaching
23:06 BingoBoingo lobbes: we do have that indeed
23:08 BingoBoingo trinque: We have a text file.
23:10 trinque is there some kind of christian purity involved in the tool choice?
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23:10 trinque or does that conveniently suck time from productive activity
23:11 trinque I ftr don't see why BingoBoingo doesn't run the thing, as mircea_popescu has also amply wtf'd
23:11 * trinque bbl
23:14 lobbes mod6: I also recommend getting a proper mp-wp up and running. As someone who also tried to stick with the 'manual html' route, I vastly underestimated the communicative power of a proper blogotron (the speed-up-to-post, the catagorizing, the deedbot announces, comments, pingbacks, etc etc)
23:14 BingoBoingo trinque: We have a legacy hairball to untangle. I encouraged mod6 to continue on with managing the cash account, decentralizing and in the process creating a bigger mess.
23:16 mod6 Ok, so I'm gonna call it a night. What I do know at this point is the ``surplus'' that we're seeing in the statements goes back at least through the August report. However, I'm not even certain at this point if what I'm seeing is actually incorrect, as I said earlier. Or if I just don't understand what I'm looking at. There's a strong chance that I just don't understand it.
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23:17 mod6 Perhaps I can convince ben_vulpes to help take a look at it with us.
23:17 * mod6 is out
23:17 BingoBoingo Whatever you do mod6 don't nightmare about the accounting when you sleep. Have sweet dreams of Cabo Polonia, the lobos marinos, and the brasileras
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