Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-07-10 | 2017-07-12 → ↓
00:01 mod6 now that i've got that part in my head, now can tackle the rest tomorrow.
00:04 mod6 damn, i wanna be on whatever deck she's on.
~ 31 minutes ~
00:35 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/07/credibility-of-us-universities-falling-as-desire-for-great-again-takes-lead-in-culture-war/ << Qntra - Credibility Of US Universities Falling As Desire For "Great Again" Takes Lead In "Culture War"
~ 57 minutes ~
01:32 deedbot http://www.contravex.com/2017/07/10/the-wallet-inspectors-promise-v-ico/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - The Wallet Inspector’s Promise v.”ICO”
~ 8 hours 4 minutes ~
09:37 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6B3CA2F9FC994FCEF29102187AA563F096485E5B262AADFA403E301E941AC291 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1570...7077 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '210.86.180.160 (ssh-rsa key from 210.86.180.160 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (210-86-180-160.static.asianet.co.th. TH 10)
09:37 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/6B3CA2F9FC994FCEF29102187AA563F096485E5B262AADFA403E301E941AC291 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1407...5429 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '210.86.180.160 (ssh-rsa key from 210.86.180.160 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (210-86-180-160.static.asianet.co.th. TH 10)
09:46 asciilifeform http://210.86.180.160/ << lol, readable dirs
~ 2 hours 42 minutes ~
12:28 mod6 mornin'
12:29 ben_vulpes ola
12:29 mod6 how goes?
12:30 ben_vulpes self-administered "remedial binary arthmetic with practical applications" course is very educational; going well
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12:30 ben_vulpes yrself?
12:31 mod6 good!
~ 2 hours 44 minutes ~
15:15 asciilifeform in other 'news', '-gnatG' flag is very very spiffy
↖ ↖
15:15 asciilifeform barfs raw ast out of gnat
15:16 asciilifeform pretty great for debugging failures of, e.g., pragma Restrictions(No_Implicit_Conditionals);
15:16 mod6 cool
15:17 asciilifeform so for instance i throw in pragma Restrictions (No_Exception_Propagation); and see "Constraint_Error may result in unhandled exception" and then wonder where,
15:20 asciilifeform and /me considered pasting the example, but turns out it potentially fires in every single line, lol
15:21 mod6 ah.
15:23 asciilifeform mod6: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/Ibqes/?raw=true << example with w_mul
15:23 mod6 ok neat, i just ran it against my V stuff, seems to dump out all of the symbols or whatnot
15:24 mod6 ah, that's sweet asciilifeform
15:25 asciilifeform ikr?
15:26 asciilifeform see the classic, https://lwn.net/Articles/629259/ , and the rms thread, re why this is not available for c/cpp gcc
15:30 asciilifeform ( http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-10#971993 << thread. possibly elsewhere also. )
15:30 a111 Logged on 2015-01-10 05:46 mircea_popescu: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-01/msg00205.html
15:32 * mod6 reads the rms thread
15:45 mod6 lol
~ 18 minutes ~
16:04 asciilifeform !!up fromdeedbot
16:04 deedbot fromdeedbot voiced for 30 minutes.
16:07 fromdeedbot !!wot
16:07 deedbot http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/xlTE7/?raw=true
~ 16 minutes ~
16:24 phf bold move
~ 16 minutes ~
16:41 trinque omg, smash and grab
~ 17 minutes ~
16:58 asciilifeform http://gcc-melt.org << of potential trbological interest.
16:58 asciilifeform mod6 et al ^
16:59 ben_vulpes pretty excellent website
17:01 shinohai nifty!
17:01 * asciilifeform has not tried $subj
~ 19 minutes ~
17:21 * mod6 looks
~ 38 minutes ~
18:00 mircea_popescu and in percussion engine news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/fa600ff8d20f4ebbca0145e436639b74/tumblr_oaobhtXoVg1tarv7io1_500.gif
18:01 shinohai Such efficiency
18:02 mircea_popescu every stroke is precious, every stroke is good
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18:02 mircea_popescu iof a stroke is wasted god gets quire irate
~ 25 minutes ~
18:28 BingoBoingo In other news: Fake news attacking idiot son (Donald Jr.) for trying to impress father because shut out of campaign as an idiot
~ 16 minutes ~
18:44 shinohai fake news is where the $ is at these dayz
18:48 BingoBoingo Try telling that to CNN
~ 16 minutes ~
19:04 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/07/fake-news-washington-post-changes-tune-on-russian-collusion/ << Qntra - Fake News Washington Post Changes Tune On Russian Collusion
19:09 BingoBoingo ^ misc corrections applied.
19:23 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-11#1681522 << how's teh fhf perfing coming along ?
19:23 a111 Logged on 2017-07-11 16:30 ben_vulpes: self-administered "remedial binary arthmetic with practical applications" course is very educational; going well
19:26 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo espicially
19:27 mircea_popescu "As recently as earlier today, the Fake News empire turned idiot son Donald Junior's gullibility with respect to a phishing scheme1 into their latest headline of the day which they will use to sell loyal consumers of their fiction product on the "certain end" of the 8 year Trumpreich in spite of all the actual evidence running to the contrary of their narrative supported instead by a complete lack of evidence."
19:27 mircea_popescu this is not a sentence.
19:28 mircea_popescu wtf, newswriting not dictionary boating accident
19:29 asciilifeform meanwhile in the land of toy crypto, https://eprint.iacr.org/2017/655 >> '...Inmarsat satellite phones... the 64-bit encryption-key... recovered in around 0.02s on average'
19:31 asciilifeform elsewhere, 'karpeles pleads notguilty'
19:32 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: slowlybut surely, expanding the horizon of things i understand, taking the time to make sure i understand each part.
19:32 mircea_popescu aite
19:32 asciilifeform ...but confesses to tape-painting bot
19:33 ben_vulpes byte arrays to integers for the m+1, m+2, coercions for byte arrays to integers, bit arrays for flipping random bits,
19:33 mircea_popescu karpeles and carl force "trials", parallel lulz constructions.
19:35 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes here's a high pay grade question for you : of the two models of "controlled de-entropy" i spawned in a week, specifically a) count of randomly placed flipped bits, as in the discussion with you re that and b) string of randomly initiated, n bit long SET bits, as discussed in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-10#1681268 which does the bitcoin foundation regard as a better candidate for standardization as "the republic'
19:35 a111 Logged on 2017-07-10 19:50 mircea_popescu: which incidentally brings us to a very workable and very useful tmsr definition of entropy quality : take a FG string. flip a number of consecutive bits to 1. the result is your entropy quality, such as 100/1mb if you flipped 100 bits.
19:35 mircea_popescu s measure of de-entropied bitstream" ?
19:35 mircea_popescu and, of course, "and why ?".
19:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i'd like to see an expanded algo for ^
19:36 mircea_popescu which ?
19:36 asciilifeform 'take a FG string... 100bits'
19:37 mircea_popescu let M = FG[1Mb] ; let P = rnd(0, 1Mb) ; let M[P..P+100] = 1.
19:37 asciilifeform what means 'flip a number of consecutive bits to 1' ?
19:37 asciilifeform ( for what does this operation use the original values that came out of the rng ? )
19:37 mircea_popescu for the other 1048476 bits
19:38 * asciilifeform unable to parse an implementable algo out of the above
19:38 mircea_popescu what's the rub ?
19:38 asciilifeform i have nfi what 'rnd(0, 1Mb)' does
19:39 mircea_popescu produces a random number between 1 and 1048576
19:39 asciilifeform what's FG[1Mb] do ?
19:39 asciilifeform fills 1048576 bits with rngolade?
19:39 mircea_popescu produces a bit-addressable array of 1048576 bits from FG
19:39 asciilifeform and then we take Pth to P+100th bits and.. what then
19:40 mircea_popescu set them to 1.
19:40 asciilifeform what's that do ?
19:40 mircea_popescu it degrades the entropy of M' so obtained.
19:40 asciilifeform aite, and what to do with M and M' ?
19:41 mircea_popescu M' is now a "known low entropy bitfield". we know it to have degraded by 100/1Mb or w/e the case may be
19:41 mircea_popescu then we feed it into entropy-dependent processes (say the rabin miller test, as discussed yest) and see what comes out.
19:41 asciilifeform so this's a 'meta' test of a given dh-style test ?
19:42 mircea_popescu in a sense. it has multiple utilities, it allows you to try and guess (numerically) whether for instance better entropy or more passes are useful for rabin miller
19:42 mircea_popescu which allows you to correctly balance your tester irl.
19:42 mircea_popescu as in, balance it according to a calculation, rather than according t oa feeling.
19:42 asciilifeform incidentally if there's a vonneuman filter in the pipe, setting consecutive bits does 0
19:43 asciilifeform btw, fun project for FG owners -- connect the analogue hoses to something other than the included boards, and see what you get
19:44 mircea_popescu asciilifeform there is that, yes. but we're doiong this for instrumentation in teh lab not for any other purpose. it's a tracer for entropy, like the shit they make you swallow to see your stomach.
19:44 mircea_popescu they -- also do 0 if not used as prescribed
19:45 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> wtf, newswriting not dictionary boating accident << Cleanup ongoing. Probably ought to write before baking brain in heat or sleep and proofread before publishing. /me resets "Days since linguistic boating accident" sign back to 0 days
19:45 mircea_popescu :p
19:45 * shinohai likes mircea_popescu 's barium enema analogy
19:45 shinohai or cocktail as case may be
19:45 asciilifeform iirc the d00d who found the koch whitening lulzgem used a proggy that worked quite like 'barium enema'
19:45 mircea_popescu shinohai :p
19:45 mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha!
19:45 asciilifeform traced operand flow
19:46 mircea_popescu poor ben_vulpes has been silent since the blessing of wtf 10 minutes ago.
19:46 ben_vulpes gonna hafta think about it, for sure
19:46 mircea_popescu open question.
19:47 mircea_popescu (ie, i dun have an answer for it myself, nor know how to get one.)
19:48 asciilifeform the possibly paradoxical answer, afaik, is there does not actually exist such a thing as good entropy. only bad and worse.
19:48 mircea_popescu as alf points out, a is "better" in the sense v-n debiaser kills b, if this is a better. unclear.
19:49 mircea_popescu a is also twice as strong, because obviously b will flip on average half the bits it sets. but is this ACTUALLY half ? ie, how do yo umeasure unrandomness ? b is much more strongly patterned than a.
19:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no that's exactly what we're doing. controlledly-bad-level entropy.
19:49 asciilifeform there is no mechanical test that, e.g., 'bitflipped digits of pi' does not also pass.
19:49 mircea_popescu the whole discussion is, given a stream of perfect entropy, how to construct known-degree-of-badness out of it.
19:50 asciilifeform even moar outrageously, adding the 100 1s does not in fact 'turn it bad', the P of these 100 1s appearing in a uniform distrib is >0
19:50 mircea_popescu it turns it... WORSE :D
19:50 asciilifeform aha.
19:50 mircea_popescu those curious -- straight to your ent, see.
19:51 mircea_popescu and in the process see also that ent is not a very good measurement tool.
19:51 asciilifeform dijkstra's 'testing reveals presence of bugs, but not absence' applies just the same to rng.
19:52 asciilifeform ( statistical tests only reveal broken rng , but never a working one )
19:52 mircea_popescu pass-fail tools notoriously horrendous measurement instruments.
19:52 asciilifeform any test whatsoever, past or future.
19:52 asciilifeform passfail or 1024bit number, dun matter.
19:52 shinohai http://archive.is/OBRuJ <<< Another scammer (soon to turn stripper)
19:53 mircea_popescu asciilifeform understand this isn't a matter of testing specified bitfields, but specified ~processes~
19:53 asciilifeform e.g., aes(0, 1, 2, ...., maxint) is perfectly uniform by all known tests.
19:53 mircea_popescu FG + de-entropizer =>
19:53 mircea_popescu shinohai she looks camwhoreable.
19:54 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i actually considered something that is arguably a variant of your test, when designing FG,
19:54 mircea_popescu "thousands of dollars" for maximal lulz.
19:54 ben_vulpes shinohai: "thousands of dollars!"
19:54 shinohai Would be a lulzy Qntra BingoBoingo
19:54 mircea_popescu next the usg is going to get off its ass, discover the whole rapereum "ecosystem" was $7600.
19:54 asciilifeform i.e. a lamp whose brightness is proportional to how close (bits emitted from vonneumann filter per sec) / ( bits entering same, per sec) is to 1
19:55 mircea_popescu asciilifeform practically same thing, just physical.
19:55 asciilifeform eventually i derived that this is equivalent to the equation seen in the 'watchdog' circuit in fg.v
19:55 asciilifeform so we actually have it, in there, nao.
19:55 asciilifeform ( recall the sheet of paper that came with your FG. )
19:56 mircea_popescu so which did you end up implementing, a or b ?
19:56 mircea_popescu superficially sounds like a.
19:57 asciilifeform ( for the intrepid: see http://btcbase.org/patches/fg-genesis#L276 , http://btcbase.org/patches/fg-genesis#L378 , http://btcbase.org/patches/fg-genesis#L475 . )
19:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: b, as i understand, isn't even physically possible without a buffer
19:58 asciilifeform so naturally it's moar 'a'
19:59 mircea_popescu why buffer ?
19:59 mircea_popescu gate, switches on at some point pisses 100 1s, switches back
20:00 asciilifeform as i understand, this doesn't test entropy
20:00 asciilifeform but rather tests a proposed test of entropy.
20:00 mircea_popescu well yes,.
20:02 asciilifeform we ain't got any tests in FG, other than 'von neumann filter has not emitted 8 bits in past 0.5msec -- lamp is red'
20:03 asciilifeform ( how the constant here follows from the circuit -- is an exercise for the reader )
20:08 BingoBoingo shinohai: Escriba?
20:09 shinohai I'm in a state of temporary retirement until market conditions improve.
20:12 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes, as a practical matter. i was just discussing the "must have buffer" theoretical point.
20:13 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: for just about any statistical test ( other than von neumann in/out proportion ) you need a buffer.
20:13 asciilifeform even ~counting to 100 per se~ needs 7+ bits...
20:14 mircea_popescu now this is interesting. there is no... state machine entropy tester ? ynot!
20:14 asciilifeform well they're all statemachines
20:14 asciilifeform q is , how bit
20:15 asciilifeform *big
20:15 asciilifeform von neumann's is the smallest that's worth anything
20:15 mircea_popescu i suppose the state goes in what's a buffer.
20:15 asciilifeform a 'value of pi' needs a couplea dozen bits, at least
20:15 asciilifeform you can devise others, in principle, that use however many bits of flipflop you got to work with.
20:16 asciilifeform i deliberately wrote FG for the smallest commercially available cpld that would hold vonneumann + uart
20:17 asciilifeform initially targeted the '9532' but it dun even fit the uart. so it had to be the next size up.
20:18 asciilifeform we use 63 of the 64 available LUTs.
20:18 mircea_popescu aha!
20:18 asciilifeform ( it is normally ~impossible to actually use whole thing, because of routing constraints )
20:19 mircea_popescu somehow the dorks going on "nsa running out of moneyz!" never seem to notice such points in their expert analyseses. "dude, corp that can stuff the cpld like that will NEVER run out of anything."
20:20 asciilifeform !~google krakevisa
20:20 jhvh1 asciilifeform: Krakevisa | The Elder Scrolls Mods Wiki | Fandom powered by Wikia: <http://tes-mods.wikia.com/wiki/Krakevisa>; Kråkevisa - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kr%25C3%25A5kevisa>; Leaves Eyes - Krakevisa - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DO7Eu7DX1s2c>
20:20 asciilifeform grr
20:20 asciilifeform well, 2nd link. but really you want the text, of this old folk song.
20:21 asciilifeform (unless you speak .no)
20:21 asciilifeform '... and the man who cannot use a crow like this, does not deserve to find one'
20:22 mircea_popescu haha ayep
20:23 asciilifeform http://freya.theladyofthelabyrinth.com/?page_id=512 << heeeere we go.
20:23 asciilifeform full text, with englischization
20:23 asciilifeform ( well-known crackpot chix's www btw )
20:24 mircea_popescu is this a reference to the "lady of pain" ruler of sigil ?
20:25 asciilifeform deeply nfi
20:28 mircea_popescu and in other competencies, http://68.media.tumblr.com/342d94f3bf432444b840ab02029fa4dd/tumblr_onp3juIQNh1uormd9o1_400.gif
20:31 asciilifeform 9536 not 32 lol
20:32 asciilifeform and 71 of 72, not 63/64 lol
20:32 asciilifeform ftr!
20:47 asciilifeform oooh upstack, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-11#1681525 >> '-gnatD' gives MUCH moar readable per-file ast
20:47 a111 Logged on 2017-07-11 19:15 asciilifeform: in other 'news', '-gnatG' flag is very very spiffy
20:47 asciilifeform mod6 et al : http://docs.adacore.com/gnathie_ug-docs/html/gnathie_ug/gnathie_ug.html is useful
20:48 asciilifeform sect. 3 in particular.
20:56 asciilifeform mod6 et al : in other noose, i have a working experimental build with No_Implicit_Conditionals, No_Implicit_Heap_Allocations, No_Implicit_Dynamic_Code, No_Secondary_Stack, No_Exception_Propagation, No_Tasking, No_Protected_Types, No_Delay, No_Allocators, No_Dispatch restrictions.
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20:57 asciilifeform interestingly this gives ~0 performance boost. gcc optimizer, turns out, is notbad.jpg.
20:58 asciilifeform ( 'but there was a protected type!' alert reader will ask. the pill is the obvious one, i will reveal it later. )
~ 30 minutes ~
21:29 mod6 nice!
~ 19 minutes ~
21:48 mod6 <+asciilifeform> oooh upstack, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-11#1681525 >> '-gnatD' gives MUCH moar readable per-file ast << ah werd.
21:48 a111 Logged on 2017-07-11 19:15 asciilifeform: in other 'news', '-gnatG' flag is very very spiffy
21:50 mod6 yah, seems to output .dg files for each
22:01 mircea_popescu mod6 incidentally, it occurs to me : it might be a good idea for the foundation to have some kind of policy whereby people interested can donate servers ? exactly like freenode, in theory, except they fuck it up so uttertly in practice it's not even funny.
22:01 mircea_popescu but their being retarded doesn't mean we can't do it right.
~ 31 minutes ~
22:33 mod6 Ok, that'd be nice; especially if we can audit the hardware somehow.
22:34 mod6 (fwiw, I have no clue how freenode does this either)
22:34 mircea_popescu they only get nsa-approved diddleware from privateinternetaccess.com
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22:35 mircea_popescu dba variously as usg's very own honeypot for cypher-dorks.
22:35 mod6 It could be something along the lines of how I've envisioned the foundation mirrors. someone in L1 can start their own after a discussion with either of us. could be similar maybe.
22:35 mod6 They, of course, need to be in good WoT standing, etc.
22:36 mircea_popescu ideally it could take anonymous donations.
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22:37 mod6 Perhaps for test hardware if they were in very good trust standing, they could send us keys to a host we could use. Not sure otherwise how we would receive such hardware.
22:38 mod6 As far as production hardware, not sure how we could vet such an environment. But maybe I can just think on this a bit.
22:41 mircea_popescu yeah, i don't have an obvious pill either. but for instance for running nodes ? what do you care if it's evil. doesn't pay to evil.
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22:45 trinque as it stands I'm already the host for the trb deps.
22:45 trinque gladly, can call it a donation to the foundation for sure.
22:45 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> dba variously as usg's very own honeypot for cypher-dorks. << AHA, dedicated Thermos sodomizer
22:45 mod6 mircea_popescu: aha, i see.
22:50 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-12#1681720 << unfortunately-- wrong; sure does pay. hence the few thou. sybils currently masquerading as btc nodes
22:50 a111 Logged on 2017-07-12 02:41 mircea_popescu: yeah, i don't have an obvious pill either. but for instance for running nodes ? what do you care if it's evil. doesn't pay to evil.
22:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this is a poor indicator. ~nothing the usg does pays.
22:51 mircea_popescu but yes, idiots with daddy's money can do stupid shit thart doesn't even pay.
22:51 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-12#1681717 is how you get http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-12#1681713 , every time
22:51 a111 Logged on 2017-07-12 02:36 mircea_popescu: ideally it could take anonymous donations.
22:51 a111 Logged on 2017-07-12 02:34 mircea_popescu: they only get nsa-approved diddleware from privateinternetaccess.com
22:52 mircea_popescu sooner or later the republic will run hardware that nobody can identify the owner of.
22:53 asciilifeform hey this worx great so long as the secrecy of the contents, or the reliability of the computation, dun matter at all
22:53 mod6 Perhaps, something could be devised, but it'd be a bit complex. As such, someone could "donate a node" in lieu or some credit to their yearly taxation obligations, and to receive such credit we would need to have some basic requirements met. 1) The node is running trb. 2) It is "caught up". 3) Is available and connected for >95% of the time. 4) Can be independently checked/verified that it is up by some sor
22:53 asciilifeform ( even to the extent of whether it happens )
22:53 mod6 t of bot that we have to keep track of such things.
22:54 trinque dunno they're accurately termed "obligations"
22:54 trinque it's a voluntary tax
22:54 mircea_popescu asciilifeform 1000 unreliable whores still make a brothel.
22:54 mircea_popescu it is, after all, how hot topic / starbux / sephora / whatever ustard outlet even stays in business.
22:55 mod6 "com/deed/9ULZPc7yeZ9fQEA1aZ73H6mcv1s2C4gYFAbNTb5urovj ) as the sole and complete public contribution that may be required of him ; that such payment satisfies the total burden of taxation upon him, and no further payments may be required, in any form nor for any reason or under any title or pretense, by anyone ; that the satisfaction of this obligation is a moral requirement, and outside of the oppinion of
22:55 mod6 the sovereign people it will not be enforced."
22:55 mod6 bah.
22:55 mod6 sorry.
22:55 BingoBoingo http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=8274&pr=1
22:55 asciilifeform depends in which way unreliable. e.g. say they all , on command, simultaneously reveal to be d00dz and pick up rifles. then battalion, whereas yesterday - brothel
22:55 mircea_popescu trinque turns out iffier than that.
22:55 mircea_popescu asciilifeform there is that.
22:56 asciilifeform that's the thing with sybils: what you thought were independents, turn out to be an aggregate
22:56 mircea_popescu no, i know.
22:57 trinque mircea_popescu: meant that turning the foundation into a tax man with income tax records seems wrong-headed
22:57 BingoBoingo http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=8272&pr=1
22:58 mircea_popescu trinque yeah, should be up to teh forum really.
22:59 mod6 I'm not even sure that Mr. P. suggested that -- I only mentioned that as it is yet undefined weather such donation is "obligation free for the foundation". i.e. we hand back nothing in return.
22:59 trinque mod6: nope, was responding to you
23:00 mod6 And I only use the word "obligation" as this is the language of the taxation outline within the DoS.
23:00 trinque guy can donate in public, and deem everyone sees he donated, and decide himself to deduct that from tax
23:01 mod6 That's fair in the circumstance that said dontation was made public, indeed.
23:02 mod6 Anyway, I think this might be a bit off-topic from the original ; ``consider how to accept hardware donations''.
23:03 mircea_popescu fact is : we will slowly and over the years migrate to a situation where control of hardware will not relate to any sort of "paying for it".
23:03 mircea_popescu certainly not in fucking usd ; but moreover - at all. hardware, much like cunt, belongs to he who knows how to use it well, not to he who inherited a herd of sheep.
23:04 mircea_popescu let the shepherd herd his sheep and make cheese out of them. computers are for intelligent people and no one else.
23:13 lobbes !!deed http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2017/q1/Birdman_payment_receipt.txt
23:13 deedbot accepted: 1
23:13 lobbes !!deed http://lobbesblog.com/billing/2017/q2/Birdman_payment_receipt.txt
23:13 deedbot accepted: 1
23:14 lobbes !!rate Birdman 1 valued customer
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23:14 deedbot Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4EZae/?raw=true
23:14 mod6 Perhaps people can donate hardware for whatever purpose trb, uci/gossip via deedbot; then could be accounted for by some process while under our control; maybe even listed as "asset"?
23:14 mircea_popescu possibru
23:15 lobbes !!v 50422E169DE682AB8DAA0F4F94D5A38074FFD57F41A413D7089F263B484FADCF
23:15 deedbot lobbes rated Birdman 1 << valued customer
23:15 asciilifeform the ancient dream of the fungible cpu cycle keeps coming back. but sadly still - a dream
23:15 asciilifeform ( 1024 chickens!11 )
23:15 mod6 mircea_popescu: thanks for the suggestion, I shall think on it.
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23:16 mircea_popescu asciilifeform gotta decorporealize teh hardware alfie.
23:16 asciilifeform not that it's necessarily physical impossibility.
23:16 asciilifeform just that neither asciilifeform nor anybody, afaik, else, knows how.
23:17 mircea_popescu anyway, let it be pointed out that by-capital allocation of computing power is both a) immensely, ridiculously ineffectual and b) not really practiced, not even by the "obviously right way" de facto proponents (usg)
23:18 asciilifeform what means 'by-capital' ?
23:19 mircea_popescu the contortions they came up to "justify" the disconnect are also pretty lulzy. really, bitch, "silicon valley" ? "investors" ? what the fuck else ? "univeresity grants for research" ? reheheheheally ?
23:19 mircea_popescu asciilifeform just that -- have $100, get $100 worth of computer ; not have - not get.
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23:20 asciilifeform lol, that happens as often as buying 100 $ of waterfront
23:20 mircea_popescu currently they're "selling" it by, iirc, the half dollar. hence amazon and all that cloudy bs.
23:20 asciilifeform ( 'lease space inside nostril' aws et al also exists, uninterestingly )
23:21 asciilifeform aha
23:21 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: right but they sell it at, what , 1000x margin.
23:21 mircea_popescu anyway, there's two problems with the by-capital allocation. one is that various lusers (microsoft, govt offices, hospitals, etc) end up buying computers they can afford monetaerily, but can not afford intellectually. then it's all "antivirus companies" and "hackers" and their dumb, drunk-fucking mother on a stick.
23:22 mircea_popescu the other one is that poisonous/poisoned minds end up dedicating their time to navigating the impedance mismatch. so you end up with nsa and "hackers" and "digital crimes" and what have you.
23:23 mircea_popescu none of this nonsense is necessary ; just let go of the notion that dumb kid / arabic speaker / whoever on a stick may touch a machine in his born days.
23:23 mircea_popescu for the cheap added benefit of no further fucking wiki-reddit-washpo-whatevers.
23:23 asciilifeform when asciilifeform toiled in usg salt mine, on some days the Official shitbox would be ~unusable: ~no cycles left over from 'antivirus'
23:24 mircea_popescu obviously the only end state of "man who bought himself wife he could afford money-wise but not really penis-wise" is ... yellow rabid jealousy.
23:24 asciilifeform and during this, thought 'you could easily get folx installing 'virus' wholly voluntarily, if it eliminated this & other crapola in a silent-to-brass way'
23:25 mircea_popescu asciilifeform kinda the idea here.
23:25 mircea_popescu no more all-comers computing.
23:25 asciilifeform i fully expect that most 'uci' install would be by hand.
23:25 asciilifeform upclose an' personal
23:25 mircea_popescu possibly.
23:25 mircea_popescu in any case -- let the fucking bureaucracy get back to paper already, it's where it belongs.
23:26 trinque hell I installed far less interesting items all over the place in high school
23:26 asciilifeform this uci thing, is one of those items that is wholly trivial but for ONE unsolved boojum, quite like, e.g., roomtempsupercon
23:26 asciilifeform 'first, steal a chicken..'
23:27 mircea_popescu amusingly -- the chicken stealer (ro gainar, each language that saw them has its own word) is the lowest level of gypsy male qualification. a sort of transient baccalaureat if you will.
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23:28 asciilifeform modern equiv prolly 'bike thief'
23:28 mircea_popescu not really, because the gypsies were/are serious about it. sort of like injun "totem animal" thing
23:29 asciilifeform ( usaschwitz inmate could live 100yrs without once seeing a live chicken )
23:29 mircea_popescu (note that in gypsy culture it is not a qualification for theft specifically. just independent operation, not being too dumb to live sorta thing. not a bad test for that, as it turns out.)
23:30 mircea_popescu (and yes -- for girls it IS prostitution. works exactly like black girl booty shaking, if there's music they WILL move. which is how you get 12yos throwing passes at all passers by.)
23:39 asciilifeform possibly we had this thread, but asciilifeform's unpublished, failed stab 'at bitcoin' decade+ ago was , more or less, 'uci running martianbank'
23:40 asciilifeform plugging the funnel at wrong end, so to speak.
23:41 asciilifeform and to this day afaik nobody has anything like a sybilproof way to glue 1024 unreliable chickens into a simulacrum of a pc
23:42 asciilifeform even if you cut the problem domain down to simple storage - turns out, tricky
23:42 asciilifeform ( ever use 'mule' w4r3znet? that's still the state of the art... )
23:50 mircea_popescu i guess mostly open problem huh
23:51 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> modern equiv prolly 'bike thief' << In my experience people taking bikes dun really get attached to them. Bike was there and they could use it to go drug faster.
23:51 mircea_popescu ^
23:51 mircea_popescu ~same as hopping subway turnstile
23:52 BingoBoingo Girls tend to get the opportunity to graduate to "tampering with motor vehicle" i.e. stealing man's car to drug faster and man staying pissed long enoug to file charges, but not long enough to press for Grand Theft Auto
23:53 BingoBoingo So "tampering" charge is all that's left for oppression apparatus to pursue
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