Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-05-23 | 2017-05-25 → ↓
00:51 BingoBoingo !~later tell shinohai ty, published
00:51 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
00:53 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/05/still-no-consensus-supporting-bitcoin-hardfork-barry-silbert-pretends-otherwise-to-his-peril/ << Qntra - Still No Consensus Supporting Bitcoin Hardfork – Barry Silbert Pretends Otherwise To His Peril
00:53 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: 4 -- loose
00:54 BingoBoingo ty fxd
01:06 mircea_popescu that silbert schmuck is on his what, 5th "oh, i will change the world" hear him roar only to be used as a cum rag ?
01:07 mircea_popescu i suppose if you're going to be an ustardian empire spearhead, it helps to have no shame and no memory.
01:11 BingoBoingo And to not be spearhead, but Petrus branded spear sheath
01:11 mircea_popescu myeah
~ 2 hours 12 minutes ~
03:23 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
03:24 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2320.26, vol: 15251.95166263 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2287.001, vol: 10267.24658 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2310.7, vol: 24441.24751909 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2319.857349, vol: 19171.30910000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2290.001, vol: 8037.75254521 | Volume-weighted last average: 2309.55537833
03:27 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/05/bitcoin-network-difficulty-up-6-42-percent-for-another-all-time-high/ << Qntra - Bitcoin Network Difficulty Up ~6.42 Percent For Another All Time High
~ 5 hours 41 minutes ~
09:09 asciilifeform in other http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-22#1660095 lulz, https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAhfSVJXsAA4uId.jpg
09:09 a111 Logged on 2017-05-22 14:57 mircea_popescu: nah, uk leads the shitshow.
~ 46 minutes ~
09:55 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A1D29A0A878115F4491A43E6C6E4AD444DD6EE3AD2A0AAFD586568D8BB34633B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1721...4413 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '175.158.32.99 (ssh-rsa key from 175.158.32.99 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ip-175-158-32-99.cbn.net.id. ID JK)
09:55 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A1D29A0A878115F4491A43E6C6E4AD444DD6EE3AD2A0AAFD586568D8BB34633B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1447...1599 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '175.158.32.99 (ssh-rsa key from 175.158.32.99 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ip-175-158-32-99.cbn.net.id. ID JK)
~ 1 hours 33 minutes ~
11:28 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-24#1660775 << lovely
11:28 a111 Logged on 2017-05-24 03:36 asciilifeform: https://archive.org/details/cu31924004127696 << believe or not
~ 50 minutes ~
12:19 Framedragger /r/mtgoxinsolvency is full of "this is sufficient for end of insolvency" and (quoting) "Karpeles is working on a solution!"
12:19 mircea_popescu idiots.
12:19 Framedragger because of the bull run, yknow
12:20 mircea_popescu the internet really made it obvious i actually don't like people.
12:20 mircea_popescu what fucking part of "usg stole all bitcoin you gave to mtgox long ago" isn't quite plain.
12:20 trinque yeah, when somebody steals my wife, whores her out, then keeps money, returns wife, that's whole.
12:21 mircea_popescu trinque someone's gotta pay for the hospital bills eh.
12:21 asciilifeform returns not wife, but the shit of the pig that her corpse was fed to
12:21 Framedragger dude karpeles just took a large loan on that frappuccino https://blog.bigterminal.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/protest-confronts-karpeles.jpg
12:21 Framedragger he's gonna pay yuge interest and settle this
12:21 Framedragger he's an honestman.jpg
12:21 * mircea_popescu is working on a solution to end world stupid.
12:22 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: asteroid ?
12:22 mircea_popescu basically, what's going on here is, the STORY of life wouldn't make sense, ~as a story~, ie it wouldn't be put on tv, if there wasn't a twist here.
12:22 Framedragger lul magicaltux is actually responding on reddit (for gasmask folks, https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/6cwd82/plz_vote_mr_kobayashi_we_the_mtgox_creditors/)
12:23 mircea_popescu and as far as these idiots are concerned, 100% of "life" experience comes from tv and such stories, and therefore it logically follows that yes, pretty good ods heel to face turn etc.
12:23 mircea_popescu asciilifeform nothing specific. just likew "Karpeles is working on a solution!". what, i can run for miss dumbland just as well as a fat fuck.
12:24 asciilifeform and i had nfi that there were reddit terminals in jp jail
12:24 mircea_popescu eh, jail. here's a secret : nobody wants to keep anyone ion jail, it's expensive.
12:25 mircea_popescu "jail" is this theoretical construct for online dorks.
12:25 Framedragger released on bail
12:25 trinque the lawyers keep you perpetually in court
12:25 trinque maximal extraction
12:25 Framedragger http://themerkle.com/mark-karpeles-twitter/
12:25 Framedragger amazing headline
12:25 mircea_popescu the lengthy pile opf chairs that is "our democracy" falls apart the moment you kick any prior out.
12:28 asciilifeform i still dun get why the usd exchange rate of btc would matter to the mtgox proceedings
12:28 asciilifeform even in theory
12:28 mircea_popescu fictive living.
12:28 trinque the idiots propose they be paid USD at prior value for their imaginary once btc holdings
12:28 mircea_popescu this is how they argue with their insignificant others : "oh, i was miss ohio state when i married oyu! i want a couch!"
12:31 asciilifeform also what would one have to smoke, to believe that there's any btc, usd, zimbabwe dollars, dubloons, etc. left in the smoking ruin.
12:31 mircea_popescu no, no, they don't care about the physical reality. the mental articulation is "1. i have claim ; 2. mommy makes good".
12:31 trinque you don't understand. there should be, so there is.
12:32 mircea_popescu see, they never lived this experience where they go on horseback, run into vienna, rape some girls.
12:32 mircea_popescu they had this experience where their computer game crashed and mommy bought them another one, because it was their xmas gift or w/e, ie they had THE CLAIM. and then made whole.
12:33 mircea_popescu that's the mechanism, very fundamentally imago-logic. this for that, this stands for that, etc.
12:33 mircea_popescu the physical realisation of the socialist/idiot's dreamed world is NO CONCERN OF HIS.
12:33 mircea_popescu all the has "to show" (that's how they talk, too) is the claim ticket.
12:35 mircea_popescu and this follows very strioctly ands quite necessarily from the workings of moderity / ourdemocracy. what do you need to get into the train ? not the physical ability, the PRIOR CLAIM. restaurant ? anything. and this on top of very extensive "parenting" in the form of mothering.
12:35 mircea_popescu 18 years is excessive, yet they regard it as nearly criminally short. 25 more the norm.
12:36 mircea_popescu the mtgox idiots frankly don't see why their situation should be any different from the situation of those fyre festival idiots. why are THOSE getting refunds and free tickets "next time" ?
12:36 trinque and when the handful of accidental males start bouncing off the walls at 15, pills
12:37 trinque tbh most of my friends from that age ended up drugged
12:37 mircea_popescu well yes, because... cheaper than jail, lol. which is cheaper than, you've guessed it, trying to actually live in physical world.
12:37 mircea_popescu gotta be teh dreamers, that's the only way the batshit insane expectations of 8 bn heros in their own stories can be "satisfied" after a fashion.
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12:37 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2016/what-lasts-forever/ << mandatory reading at this juncture.
12:38 asciilifeform physical world 'ain't made of rubber'
12:38 mircea_popescu and rubber ain't nearly good enough.
12:38 asciilifeform only so-much room. and long time no worldwar.
12:39 * mircea_popescu will now fishj out conversation with lulzy chick in this vein. a second.
12:41 mircea_popescu http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/j2mgG/?raw=true << this chick seriously imagines ima... actually let's take it by parts. this chick imagines that the fact she's not held an actual conversation ~is someone else's fault!~. she imagines someone's going to cut his beard for her dumb ass, not even as a hope but as an expectation, and she imagines she'll get free tickets.
12:42 mircea_popescu why the everloving fuck ? because yet another pancakeface "working in" bullshit she absolutely does not understand / has no business fucking with ?
12:42 mircea_popescu yes. in so many words, exactly, and i also bet you that not only she didn't read the link, but she imagines that if she had read it she'd be doing me a favour, and more properly speaking she should be paid to read it.
12:43 mircea_popescu i don't mean, "read and comprehend and allign mental space to it", no way. just the comprehend would be extra, in the sense of i dunno, a fucking ferrari. no, just you know, clicking on it and then forgetting about the tab. something like that.
12:43 mircea_popescu then idiots make business plans including advertising budgets. to reach these psychos. why ? how's it supposed to even work ?
12:44 mircea_popescu (and yes, it's literally psychosis, complete and utter derealisation + delusions of insertion)
12:44 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: where do you find these ??
12:44 mircea_popescu i have a specialized service.
12:45 asciilifeform i suppose you can have weekly-fresh-cunts XOR only-ever-talking-to-people-who-are-people
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12:45 mircea_popescu i'm not that into fresh tbh.
12:45 asciilifeform then why in satan's name interface with 2legged cockroaches
12:45 mircea_popescu but, the reason i'm not nearly as "entomology"-inclined as moist folks here is because i have a very heavy undercurrent of "hey mr p! you gotta talk to his one."
12:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform same reason you so eagerly read the $crud.
12:46 mircea_popescu what, am i going to become them ? take a more expensive, more exquisite path to the same derealization ? noty.
12:52 trinque http://trilema.com/2016/what-lasts-forever/#footnote_0_70544 << makes me think about one's own mind. if no large, esteemed node among the graph of meaning, psychosis.
12:53 trinque fascinates me then, what a king creates in his own mind.
12:54 mircea_popescu anyway. so now imagine ~half of all the chicks her age are also blessed with her mentality and it should be plain obvious there's NO POSSIBILITY of satisfying them in any other way than through netflix. because, even if you bougth them all ferraris, through buying half a billion of the thing they wouldn't be veblen goods anymore and so no longer serve the purpose. because they don't want all this shit for itself ; they just w
12:54 mircea_popescu ant it to try and use it to somehow plumb the endless depths of the chasm yawning inside, the horrid void of inexistence.
12:54 mircea_popescu trinque it's what games are FOR. unlike trying to "gameify" reality for chrissakes, this is actually what games are for.
12:58 mircea_popescu trinque that footnote relates directly to the earlier discussion re possiblity of meaning ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-15#1656354 ) specifically in the sense that war is unavoidable because... the agents can't... understand each other anymore.
12:58 a111 Logged on 2017-05-15 15:38 mircea_popescu: there is no possiblity of meaning outside of a structure of authority, and the authority can not be predicated on the meaning.
12:59 mircea_popescu "when trade stops war starts" is just an heuristic in this same vein. obviously if you can't negotiate prices you no longer have a meaningful basis.
12:59 trinque clearly so. and behold, phf and I can't seem to parse messages, probably both wondering what the fuck the other intends by the character
12:59 trinque the whole thing was instructive
12:59 mircea_popescu this happened historically on trilema like on its first year of existence, even wrote about it.
12:59 mircea_popescu two respectable gents called each other idiots etc.
13:00 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2010/nu-exista-prosti-online/ ha! found it.
13:02 * trinque might be a dumb guy, but can't remember the last time I lied.
13:02 trinque whole matter came down to that, most recently. whole republican structure is a machine out of which flows truth, meaning, what have you
13:02 mircea_popescu anyway, the whole tjhing with the "bretton woods agreement" / "our democracy peace and un" is an attempt to predicate the meaning on an authority predicated on the meaning, through the avenue of "we hate war". nice and good but can't work, and so it surprisingly does not work.
13:02 trinque arranged symbols
13:02 mircea_popescu quite.
13:03 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A737DDF0E6CA96DDF6EA3F3FBFCC9D6E801C42849FF49AF36297B7870965177B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1574...7043 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.42.120.210 (ssh-rsa key from 195.42.120.210 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (hc120210.tuxtools.net. DE)
13:03 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A737DDF0E6CA96DDF6EA3F3FBFCC9D6E801C42849FF49AF36297B7870965177B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1596...5923 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '195.42.120.210 (ssh-rsa key from 195.42.120.210 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (hc120210.tuxtools.net. DE)
13:03 trinque phf: ftr, if ya stop the "now I think you're lying" when I'm an idiot, could shake your hand.
13:03 mircea_popescu but the big deal is that it's not just bitcoin which, even in its sad prototype form, is a much better alternative to "currency" as understood currently ; it's that tmsr is actually a much better replacement for the united nations.
13:03 trinque macrocosm of a sane mind
13:06 asciilifeform meanwhile, in the world of sad prototypes : asciilifeform discovered ( and why did it have to be ' asciilifeform discovered ...' when other folx were nominally also testing...) that trb node with 'wires' still happily falls behind by 100s of blox, and never catches up,
13:06 asciilifeform because why would it. iirc we had this thread, node ONLY CHECKS IF BEHIND when BOOTING !!
13:06 mircea_popescu asciilifeform check out the dividends of intelligence. discussion with random brat was not worth having, until i had it, and then recounted it, and now it's worth it -- plenty of people who want to be writers or bloggers or whatever but the head doesn't help them would gladly pay moneyz for such "Content" as idle chatter hath produced.
13:07 asciilifeform at all other times, blox are a 'push' mechanism. and naturally ~100% of all incoming pushing is prb idiocy
13:07 mircea_popescu asciilifeform why do you think you discovered something we thoroughly discussed in chan lol.
13:07 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: link?
13:07 mircea_popescu the thing, with the falling behind!
13:07 asciilifeform no, speaking here of 'wires' patch
13:08 mircea_popescu wires patch is not different ; still same trb.
13:08 asciilifeform turns out, the random 'push new blocks to peers' thing does not in fact work, aha, because they don't 'stay new' for very long
13:08 asciilifeform so perma-connects by themselves make 0 measurable diff.
13:08 mircea_popescu right.
13:08 mircea_popescu though honestly this was the conclusion about a week in, also.
13:09 asciilifeform hypothesis != conclusion
13:09 mircea_popescu no. the "wires patch does little more than spam the log" conclusion was had about a week into the wires experiment.
13:10 asciilifeform lol where ? on mircea_popescu's box, where he had nonstandard sshd and couldn't connect at all ?!
13:10 mircea_popescu pretty sure you said so yourself, but kinda loath to dig through logs rightnao.
13:10 asciilifeform sometimes i gotta wonder why i even bother to do experiments, when we could just write down mircea_popescu's hypothesis as result.
13:11 mircea_popescu dood, no need to butthurt, i'm not proposing something liek wires should not exist.
13:11 asciilifeform back to subj: a proper incarnation of 'wires' would , on both ends, ask 'what's yer height?' and in case of discrepancy, trade blox
13:12 asciilifeform until this exists, asciilifeform does not recommend the use of 'wires' branch in battlefield.
13:12 asciilifeform or further experiment with same.
13:12 asciilifeform mod6 et al ^
13:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you dun recall you said ~same (ie, "dun use") coupla months ago or such ?
13:14 mircea_popescu anyway ; the whole thing with block management hasta be redone, there's no way to separate strands. which is why work is ongoing from the other end, trying to figure out the proper foundation for storing blocks, and creating a storage engine model etc, ben_vulpes 's stuff.
13:15 mircea_popescu once that is in place, a proper p2p mechanism can be built and trb will work way the fuck better than prb ever could.
13:15 mircea_popescu starting this from the networking angle with a pastiche of ssh-perl is a bad idewa
13:17 asciilifeform this was how i ended up entirely setting bozo bit on shitoshi's cpp turd.
13:17 asciilifeform and incidentally i have the storage thing .
13:18 mircea_popescu the parallels with diana_coman eating away at the ps atrocity for minigame are striking, by the way.
13:18 mircea_popescu it's almost as if the same people made both. which... they have.
~ 1 hours 7 minutes ~
14:26 asciilifeform meanwhile, from the dept. of can-also-have-problems : http://archive.is/dDrH7
14:27 mircea_popescu who is this again ?
14:29 BingoBoingo Seth Rich is the alleged wikileaks source that the DNC killed
14:30 mircea_popescu o ? how\'d they kill himn ?
14:30 BingoBoingo Got a black man to shoot him
14:31 mircea_popescu lemme guess, pantsuit clown hitmen ? (in subsidiary, how can something be "discredited" "Conspiracy theories" before i even got to hear about it ? there's no minimum interval for discreditation ?)
14:31 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo an' lemme guess, some kulak elements, at putin's behest, are intermeddling in the legal attempts to bury the whole thing ? tsk tsk.
14:32 BingoBoingo Oh my, how did you ever guess?
14:33 mircea_popescu it was in a fortune cookie in my besta pizza.
14:33 mircea_popescu it's a sad day indeed for ourdemocracy when the panstuit clown can't even get away with her extrajudicial murders anymore
14:33 mircea_popescu SHE WAS IN THE SITUATION ROOM!!11
14:34 asciilifeform # of arkencides prosecuted: still 0
14:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform how are you going to prosecute "black man" ? collective personage.
14:35 BingoBoingo To be fair what's the # of arkensexwithpigs prosecuted
14:35 asciilifeform could likewise suggest prosecuting the bullet
14:35 asciilifeform or the hole
14:35 mircea_popescu by now the usgtronic bestiary is getting pretty well fleshed out. "black man" assassin and "latino hotel maid" lying-under-oath and so on.
14:35 mircea_popescu various types o' witnesses, on it goes.
14:35 mircea_popescu asciilifeform trump was an idiot for not putting her in jail day one.
14:36 mircea_popescu fox could have run the whole story as martha stewart 2 and that's it.
14:36 mircea_popescu there are some jobs for which old men are never fit, turns out.
14:36 asciilifeform he's occupied with keeping own arse out of jail, lol
14:36 mircea_popescu yes, this is how losers lose.
14:37 asciilifeform # of successful appeals agains hawaiian judges overturning executive orders : 0
14:37 asciilifeform # of nsa operatives publicly hung on meathook : 0
14:37 asciilifeform etc.
14:37 mircea_popescu could just have him shot. what, black men work for pay.
14:37 asciilifeform only for dnc pay
14:37 mircea_popescu orly.
14:37 asciilifeform apparently!
14:37 mircea_popescu aaanyway, let dorks figure out their own shit, what am i, free consultancy inc ?
14:39 diana_coman mircea_popescu> the parallels with diana_coman eating away at the ps atrocity for minigame are striking, by the way. <- ha, catching up with the logs and I wanted to say precisely that!
14:39 mircea_popescu lel. myeah.\
14:49 mircea_popescu anyway, re the hawaii "judge" lulz, /me is already preparing the popcorn for when the shoe will be on the other foot and libertards will be frothing at the mouth as to how THIS IS NOT ALLOWABLE!!! only democratic when does it for democratic party!!!1
14:50 * mircea_popescu still recalls the 3 months of "oh, electoral college, bulwark of democracy" pre november, to be followed by endless stream of "oh, antiquated institution, holds back ourdemocracy paradise" hence.
14:51 asciilifeform patient only got 1 foot
14:53 mircea_popescu anyway, the ratchet's been going one way only. the whole pretend-republic is ever less sustainable. the rest...
~ 34 minutes ~
15:28 ben_vulpes just overheard from veen: "consumer does not have access to self. my favorite error message."
15:28 asciilifeform where'd he go, anyway
15:28 asciilifeform !~seen veen
15:28 jhvh1 asciilifeform: I have not seen veen.
15:29 asciilifeform !#seen veen
15:29 a111 2017-03-16 <veen> the man-handling happened at the helm of the challenger, much much smaller airframe
15:29 deedbot http://www.contravex.com/2017/05/24/a-few-alternatives-to-nice/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - A few alternatives to “nice.”
15:30 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: mostly up in the atmosphere
15:43 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: i dun normally even say anything re rubbish posts, but this one is worthy of reddit.
15:43 asciilifeform ftr.
15:43 asciilifeform i want my 3 minutes back.
15:52 pete_dushenski wat. gotta teach the kids how to talk. not everyone went to asciilifeform's kindergarten in the clouds.
15:53 pete_dushenski if you heard 'nice' 60k times a day in conversation you'd make a cheatsheet too. my teeth can't take much more grinding.
15:56 pete_dushenski this is asciilifeform's problem with his understanding of blogs. 'i don't talk about traveling on my blog because that's not the theme' isn't how contravex works. i talk about whatever the fuck i'm interested in or thinking about or want to remember for later, regardless of whether or not the same 10 ppl are glued to their monitors adoring every word.
15:59 ben_vulpes pete dushenski really oughta offer remedial middle school writing classes
15:59 ben_vulpes cover cliches, overuse of a limited vocabulary
15:59 ben_vulpes the worx
16:00 ben_vulpes "how to spot a thesaurus abuser"
16:00 pete_dushenski sounds like a decent retirement plan. offer sex ed classes on the side. the way education is SUPPOSED TO WORK!
16:03 pete_dushenski then again, what retirement ? what plan ?
~ 44 minutes ~
16:47 BingoBoingo !~ticker --market all
16:47 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 2440.01, vol: 20384.37982678 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 2434.052, vol: 10823.33567 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 2420.8, vol: 27332.24503955 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 2510.376551, vol: 22318.73000000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 2424.999, vol: 8878.10955333 | Volume-weighted last average: 2449.4563463
16:48 BingoBoingo OMG crashed all the way from $CURRENTYEAR to $STARTREKYEAR, Looking forward to $YUCCAMOUNTAINREPOSITORYPLANNEDFAILUREYEAR
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16:54 pete_dushenski probably won't hit $JOOYEAR on this run but there's always next one (5777 currently)
17:04 asciilifeform asciilifeform doesn't win ~anything from 'to the moon', but is happy for pete_dushenski et al
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17:05 asciilifeform ( ftr asciilifeform has never sold a bitcoin for reichmoney. but had lost some on bbet, and never had much to begin with. )
17:06 ben_vulpes goodness i tell you it is downright impossible to buy bitcoin stateside
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17:06 ben_vulpes nobody i know owns a single satoshi either, asciilifeform
17:06 asciilifeform did the usg exchanges finally give up the ghost ?
17:06 trinque eh, you can transfer them out of the state run things.
17:06 asciilifeform been ages since i tried to use one
17:06 ben_vulpes trinque: no it is impossibry
17:07 trinque o o rite, yes impossibru
17:07 ben_vulpes yes yes impossibru
17:07 asciilifeform say, 'coinbase', 2y or so ago i bought some coin there ( to then lose on bbet... ) and it came out
17:07 ben_vulpes the great inca has won, bitcoin is impossible to buy or own in the states
17:07 asciilifeform so at one time it worked
17:07 ben_vulpes grand tragedy
17:07 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: what means 'impossible to own' ?
17:07 asciilifeform the bits magically evaporate from your hdd ?
17:07 trinque ben_vulpes: you didn't wink enough.
17:07 ben_vulpes yes the nsa gets them!
17:08 trinque also lack of nudging.
17:08 ben_vulpes trinque: ey so does your lady you know you know
17:08 trinque does she.. go?
17:08 ben_vulpes does she ey ey?
17:09 danielpbarron coinbase still works last i checked earlier this year
17:09 ben_vulpes i thought asciilifeform was the one winking and nudging trinque
17:10 danielpbarron maybe it doesn't work for any substantial amount of money. but a few k here and there..
17:11 asciilifeform yeah if you give'em a megabux's worth, they'll probably simply swallow it
17:11 asciilifeform ( because... why not )
17:11 ben_vulpes so be thou a mosquito
17:11 ben_vulpes if you actually have megabuxx to wire, your wot can provide
17:12 ben_vulpes assuming you have one!
17:12 danielpbarron i always wait till the actual bitcoin is in a real block in my address before i initiate another buy
17:12 * ben_vulpes sadly does not, either wot or megabuxx
17:12 ben_vulpes ergo will die destitute, stateside
17:12 asciilifeform speaking of which, last i recall mircea_popescu was still trading secularbux for coinz, if you're willing to get on a plane
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17:12 trinque ben_vulpes: naw just predatory oligarch, come on!
17:12 asciilifeform ( he can correct if this is no longer so )
17:13 ben_vulpes trinque: ah yes, i will have a million children and drain them all
17:13 asciilifeform lol if ben_vulpes is destitute, what am i
17:13 trinque monk! scholar!
17:13 asciilifeform vow of poverty!111 lol
17:13 pete_dushenski at least not chastitty
17:14 danielpbarron don't feel too bad; it's very difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God anyway
17:26 jurov best to structure some instrument to make one poor at moment of death
17:26 pete_dushenski if only asciilifeform had bet on eth (against mp) instead of lee sedol, he could probably afford parachute. 2.5btc was it ?
17:27 asciilifeform by same logic 'if only bought btc at 2cents' lol
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17:27 pete_dushenski !~calc 0.078/0.0002*2.5
17:27 jhvh1 pete_dushenski: 0.078/0.0002*2.5 = 975
17:27 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: nah, because you were in the right place at the right time for one and not the other
17:28 asciilifeform lee sedol was quite educational tho
17:28 asciilifeform taught asciilifeform perma-lesson
17:28 asciilifeform never bet on any even you haven't rigged yourself.
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17:28 asciilifeform *event
17:28 pete_dushenski no one offered you (or me) coins at $0.10. i caught wind at $0.90 but was too young and naive to grok. thought btc was paypal alternative.
17:29 asciilifeform dafuq means 'no one offered'
17:29 pete_dushenski means you're in a irc channel and someone says 'i'll give anyone here 10k btc for pizza or 5000eth/btc' and you raise your hand or don't.
17:30 pete_dushenski 'no one offered' is pretty much everything else.
17:32 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: i dun have this excuse, i was aware of the thing almost from beginning
17:32 asciilifeform and was not esp. interested in forking over reichsbux for any, because thought it was a terribly designed , by idiots, item, and used, by avaricious idiots
17:32 asciilifeform and still it is largely so even today.
17:33 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: you're a man ahead of your time, even if your idealism keeps you from seizing golden opportunities.
17:34 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: it also kept me from losing my last pennies in 'investments'
17:34 asciilifeform which is what happened , as i understand, to most of the 'believer' folx.
17:34 pete_dushenski there is that.
17:34 jurov ben_vulpes: i do sell coins to muricans, via transferwise
17:35 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-24#1660973 << it's not really crashing! fiat is solid, only other things can crash! vote pantsuit 2440!
17:35 a111 Logged on 2017-05-24 20:48 BingoBoingo: OMG crashed all the way from $CURRENTYEAR to $STARTREKYEAR, Looking forward to $YUCCAMOUNTAINREPOSITORYPLANNEDFAILUREYEAR
17:35 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: anyways, i get the distinct impression that you don't want to be particularly rich and see no obvious merit or advantage to wealth. so what else is there to say.
17:36 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: i gotta ask how you arrived at this impression
17:37 asciilifeform 4 destroyed keyboard's worth of asciilifeform griping about working for money, apparently flew right by pete_dushenski .
17:37 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-24#1660975 << nsa appreciates along with everything else.
17:37 a111 Logged on 2017-05-24 21:04 asciilifeform: asciilifeform doesn't win ~anything from 'to the moon', but is happy for pete_dushenski et al
17:37 asciilifeform sure.
17:37 mircea_popescu the ~8k in s.mg coffers went from ~10mn to ~20mn yes.
17:38 mircea_popescu ie, minigame is the most profitable game publisher ever, in relative terms and so on.
17:38 ben_vulpes hah someone getting a salary cut soon?
17:38 mircea_popescu possibly.
17:38 asciilifeform it had salary?!
17:38 mircea_popescu minigame ? sure.
17:38 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: does not read reports!?
17:38 * asciilifeform goes, reads
17:38 mircea_popescu anyway, i'm not terribly happy about the "congrats on completion of death march, here's the salary cuts figures."
17:39 asciilifeform sure enough ! ben_vulpes .
17:39 asciilifeform lol
17:39 mircea_popescu it's how it fucking works though. bitcoin is backshit-fuckwards.
17:39 ben_vulpes wow great coinage
17:39 mircea_popescu ha. not bad huh.
17:40 ben_vulpes nah, just joking in re salary cuts to the last time this happened; "only economy in which salaries go down!"
17:40 mircea_popescu truth.
17:41 mircea_popescu anyway. the delta means we could buy a coupla reddits or slashdots or w/e.
17:41 mircea_popescu (not gonna, no panic.)
17:42 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-24#1660977 << must need get out more. thouigh from what i hear they charge peons 10% by now.
17:42 a111 Logged on 2017-05-24 21:06 ben_vulpes: goodness i tell you it is downright impossible to buy bitcoin stateside
17:44 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-24#1661008 << not particularily. was just moving dollars into argentina under the hallucinatory delusion that it's the government rather than the country that's broken.
17:44 a111 Logged on 2017-05-24 21:12 asciilifeform: speaking of which, last i recall mircea_popescu was still trading secularbux for coinz, if you're willing to get on a plane
17:44 mircea_popescu meanwhile hung the whore, shit still broken.
17:44 asciilifeform i'd still like to buy a ticket to nonbroken country somewhere
17:44 mircea_popescu i'm happy with cr so far.
17:45 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: would probably like unbroken programming lang too
17:45 mircea_popescu very good work ethic, these people. they wanna work.
17:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it looks pretty broken in the pics
17:45 ben_vulpes sounds happiest with ada, which is p. funny
17:45 mircea_popescu asciilifeform specifically ?
17:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: e.g. http://trilema.com/2017/america
17:46 mircea_popescu is it that you don't wanrt to live in a country where mcd exists at all ; or where ruined old houses exist at all ?
17:47 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: the job of programming system is not to make operator squeal with orgasmic joy, but to behave ~predictably~
17:47 asciilifeform exactly like, e.g., bulldozer
17:47 asciilifeform so far i've found that ada -- does
17:47 * mircea_popescu should take you for a walk in barrio mexico. somehow everywhere the "barrio mexico" is this batshit insane / utterly pictoresque agglomeration of hovels. totally bohemian, all inclines and strange angles and shit.
17:47 mircea_popescu rolled today past this "entrance" at a 30 degree angle from the wall, two feet wide. whole place looks like hobbits built iut.
17:48 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-24#1661019 << two dollars. A WHOLE SUMMER.
17:48 a111 Logged on 2017-05-24 21:27 asciilifeform: by same logic 'if only bought btc at 2cents' lol
17:49 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i have 0 against ruins, or whatever abomination 'exists somewhere', but so far no buenosaires-like pics from mircea_popescu-in-cr
17:49 phf i take it for asciilifeform unbroken means exactly cr or certain parts of mexico or southern india even, but with existing infrastructure to support his electron microscope. having to build that infra himself is mp'ism and is unacceptable
17:49 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-24#1661025 << lol starting to sound like confirmed mobster lmao
17:49 a111 Logged on 2017-05-24 21:28 asciilifeform: never bet on any even you haven't rigged yourself.
17:49 asciilifeform phf: funnily enough i dun have the infrastructure ~here~ either
17:49 asciilifeform so that can't be it
17:49 mircea_popescu phf definitely can get an electron microscope here.
17:50 mircea_popescu and in the same vein, just came from accountant, who moved offices because whatever, fambly dispute over property etc. his new place, downtown san jose, is something like 2k sqft for 900 a month.
17:50 asciilifeform asciilifeform is from vaguely-european-looking, architecturally, city, and simply likes the aesthetic, and considers everywhere where it ain't to be found, a monkeystan, is all.
17:50 asciilifeform (incl. most of usa)
17:51 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the difference is that you could buy such a thing here.
17:51 mircea_popescu but yes, costa rica mostly "colonial" style. which i like, myself, but i can see the "if it ain't small streets and vienese palaces everywhere it ain't the old country". guess not.
17:51 asciilifeform i dunno that i personally could buy so much as doghouse. outside of perhaps namibia.
17:52 mircea_popescu coupla millions, what. newlywed couples routinely indulge in frisco.
17:52 asciilifeform i dun think i own a couplea million of anything, even shoestrings.
17:53 ben_vulpes s.nsa stock mebbe?
17:53 mircea_popescu well, be poor for a few more years, sell a coupla s.nsa shares, then you'll have.
17:53 mircea_popescu lol.
17:53 asciilifeform ben_vulpes lol
17:55 pete_dushenski speaking of s.nsa, why does mpex not list website for it ? or for s.mg for that matter ? s.qntr lists.
17:55 asciilifeform so far it's pretty hilarious, i build a box that actually solves $problem, and not even close to 'megabestseller', all the meanwhile 'people' paying, supposedly, multi-$k for usg rng.
17:56 mircea_popescu not sure, possibly nobody gave a shit.
17:56 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: your device will be multi-$k before you know it!
17:56 mircea_popescu asciilifeform we shoulda hotglued a chinese singing thing inside a shoebox.
17:56 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: clearly!111
17:56 mircea_popescu gotta serve teh markkit!!1
17:57 mircea_popescu o shit, will prolly have to reprice those things huh. what is it by now, benjie per ? more ?
17:57 asciilifeform i'd be barfing harder if i hadn't 'seen this exact movie before', with ye olde robot
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17:58 asciilifeform ( the last time, long ago, when asciilifeform solved-problem-and-nobody-bought )
17:58 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 0.0495
17:58 phf asciilifeform: your thing is existentially terrifying, it demands a lot from the "user" (not sure it even accepts the notion of user) when they look at it, they see a glimpse of own mortality
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17:59 asciilifeform incidentally ( and this is not a seekrit, is clearly readable from the broadcast ) it was barely +ev after postage.
17:59 asciilifeform phf: wat, folx buy bare boardz all the time
17:59 mircea_popescu no, he's on to something.
17:59 mircea_popescu the item smells like the end of them. which it is. so... scary as all shit, yes.
18:00 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: mine were over $100 cad each fwiw. and that was 3 weeks ago.
18:01 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: now that you mention it, did these arrive intact ?
18:01 pete_dushenski yessir. thanks for checking.
18:01 * asciilifeform doesn't ask FG buyers anything, by default, unless they ask 1st
18:01 mircea_popescu sound policy.
18:08 asciilifeform phf: i can see what you mean, but i dunno that the problem (if you can call it one) is addressable. thing ain't 'friendly' any moar than a claymore mine is friendly.
18:08 mircea_popescu which is why no attempt to "address" it is made.
18:08 asciilifeform aha
18:10 mircea_popescu but captain breezay ain't happy.
18:10 asciilifeform the only improvement currently in the worx is the scintillator thing, which should give 1000x entropy debit ( and consequently 1000x faster testing, which is significant to asciilifeform who assembles and tests EACH UNIT BY MOTHERFUCKING HAND ) but that's really it.
18:11 asciilifeform (mechanical) assembly, fasteners, packaging, etc.
18:12 mircea_popescu total collector's item
18:14 asciilifeform incidentally, if there were such a thing as an honest ic fab, the scintillator-cum-photodiode-cum-debiaser could easily be an ic
18:14 asciilifeform optically inspectable, too.
18:14 asciilifeform single-crystal MB/s rng.
18:16 asciilifeform previously i thought that you could not have an auditable single-crystal rng, but possibly this is not so : if you make it so that only co-incident (on 2 detectors) gamma is picked up, you can 'yoke'-audit 2 units by placing back to back around test source.
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18:16 asciilifeform anyway iirc i described the basic scheme of this previously.
18:19 asciilifeform for extra rage, http://cs.ucsb.edu/~koc/cren/docs/w06/trng.pdf >> http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/3qKlv/?raw=true << described the multi-$k usg rngs, and the 'unsolved problem' etc etc
18:19 asciilifeform ( afaik it is the broadest and most complete survey of subj, fwiw, when was written )
18:19 mircea_popescu so drop guy a line.
18:20 asciilifeform http://www.irb.hr/eng/People/Mario-Stipcevic
18:20 asciilifeform hey folx who aren't asciilifeform ! why not try ? maybe score a success ???
18:20 mircea_popescu ...
18:21 asciilifeform not. one. of the folx i wrote to, answered usefully, to date.
18:21 mircea_popescu so ?
18:21 mircea_popescu what, you wanna die a virgin ?
18:21 asciilifeform so, maybe i'm doing-it-wrong
18:21 mircea_popescu well, maybe doing it wrong is no excuse from having to do it.
18:21 Framedragger asciilifeform: do basically want to invite him to audit FUCKGOATS?
18:21 asciilifeform aha?
18:21 * Framedragger can write tomorrow, for kicks
18:22 Framedragger you*
18:22 Framedragger ok then will, can't hurt. but expect same success rate (0)...
18:22 mircea_popescu the success is in the writing!
18:23 mircea_popescu as per teh "whisperers" discussion : after you write, it's his problem. before you do, however, murkier.
18:23 Framedragger there is that. moves the demarcation line
18:24 mircea_popescu quite so. /me is not terribly currious what mario $rando says or does or whatever anyway.
18:25 asciilifeform fwiw d00d actually works (as academic) on optical rng
18:26 asciilifeform has various ( imho quality ) articles on subj.
18:26 asciilifeform doesn't advocate whitening, or any other obvious liquishit, which is a jawdropping rarity.
18:26 mircea_popescu this is kinda why you're stuck doing the writing -- you're the only one who can tell him from adam. i dun care. Framedragger is polite and everything, but that goes so far.
18:27 mircea_popescu can't ask other boys to talk to the girls that interest you, it's just not how this whole talking business works.
18:28 asciilifeform aite, i'ma write..
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18:28 * Framedragger is content with politness-instrumental-role in this context, but not certain if even that helps (being more confrontational (if that's the word) from the get-go ain't a bad thing, etc...)
18:29 Framedragger asciilifeform: this'll sound stupid, but have you checked whether mail from your mail server does not get marked as spam by various heathen systems (gmail e.g.)?
18:29 * Framedragger happened to me
18:29 asciilifeform Framedragger: i typically send these ~from~ a gmail
18:29 asciilifeform kept for the purpose
18:30 Framedragger ah, yeah makes sense
18:30 asciilifeform mail from my actual mail server no longer gets through ~anywhere
18:30 asciilifeform and i've mostly abandoned it
18:30 asciilifeform usg owns email.
18:30 mircea_popescu mine did, all the way to when i dropped the shit altoghether.
18:30 asciilifeform i do not unfortunately have this luxury.
18:31 Framedragger now picturing sending a physical letter with an invite to irc. possibly gpg fingerprint, too
18:31 mircea_popescu did take wringing some necks of the "antispam" mafia, but they wring surprisinglky easily.
18:32 asciilifeform ok sent
18:32 Framedragger cool
18:33 mircea_popescu (the threat of being sued in romania and then getting in trouble when going to french conbference or w/e is remarkably powerful.)
18:34 Framedragger nice...
18:35 mircea_popescu ~only benefit of the whole eu thing.
18:36 mircea_popescu romanian law has this wonderful device, successor of the ancient writ of mandamus, "obligatia de a face". you can sue for the court to force specific performance out of people.
18:37 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what's this look like in typical practice ?
18:38 mircea_popescu most of the time, it's a method of review of administrative activity that's not well served by equity redress (special court for that). i got say the ro immigrations obliged by court to issuye work permits etc.
18:38 mircea_popescu but it can also be used in private practice, such as the obligation of guy who owns the gate to give you a key because you have a right of egress, or w/e such.
18:38 asciilifeform lol hey we have this in usa, court obligated immigration ministry to let in allahsnackbar that mr.t wanted to keep out...
18:39 mircea_popescu i'm sure.
18:39 asciilifeform what are courts even about, if not ordering folx to do x, cease y
18:39 mircea_popescu us is really very "liquidated damages"-y. rather than mandate performances.
18:42 asciilifeform tru
18:42 asciilifeform they're big on fungibility-of-everything.
18:44 mircea_popescu yeah.
18:44 mircea_popescu except bitcoin, of course.
18:45 asciilifeform aaha
18:52 asciilifeform to revisit upstack : i'd still like to find this shangri-la, between britney-rubbish and FG, where actual money is to be made.
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18:53 mircea_popescu nobody ever encountered this problem in the history of life on earth.
18:53 mircea_popescu there's not even poems about it or anything.
18:53 asciilifeform lol
18:53 asciilifeform and hey, nowhere is it written that it even has an answer, maybe folx simply dun need gadgets.
18:54 mircea_popescu yeah, only need tablets.
18:54 asciilifeform and mcd
~ 18 minutes ~
19:12 asciilifeform in other crackpotteries, http://quidnon.blogspot.com/2017/05/a-boat-for-reluctant-sailor.html >> orlol's boat thing, 'To be sure, some people found the project fascinating and, based on the blog stats, went and read all about it. And some of them wished me and the project the very best luck. But the most vocal people were also the most negative. In all, it appears that most of the people who responded did so because QUIDNON rubbed t
19:12 asciilifeform hem the wrong way in any one of several ways: it doesn’t fit the glamorous image of yachting, it is useless for either sport or ostentation, and it shows people the way to live and enjoy themselves on the water for very little money. Anathema!'
19:20 mircea_popescu um
19:21 mircea_popescu how about it's just a stupid idea by a clueless moron who pointedly refuses to acknowledge his ignorance because he figures if he fixes it he just becomes the normal unremarkable dork his mommy made him, whereas in militant idiocy he feels unique ?
19:22 mircea_popescu or is that just more of "he robbed me of the glamour of yachting as seen by a cat inside a cardboard box" ?
~ 35 minutes ~
19:58 mircea_popescu oh, in other lulz : laura codruta kovesi, ro axe handle and for ~decade very insistently presented by usg media as a sort of hero of the fight against "corruption" (aka, non-usg capital) is now sought by police because "somehow" disappeared just as various legal proceedings started.
19:58 mircea_popescu something tells me no hotel maid in new york is gonna complain she tried to rape her, yes ?
20:04 asciilifeform i disagree that the ugly boat is intrinsically bad idea
20:04 asciilifeform it's poor-misanthrope tech and i'm for it, to the hilt.
20:04 asciilifeform fuck payingrent.
20:05 asciilifeform but iirc we already had this thread.
20:14 asciilifeform iirc also mircea_popescu's technical objections were, imho, intellectually lazy ('pipe fittings will cost their weight in gold, because boat and they can' -- by same token rng MUST cost 10k $, because raytheon's does; 'must drag it to shore to paint bottom' -- also fixable, make the bottom from inconel or hastelloy ; etc )
20:15 asciilifeform technical problems admit technical solutions. but i suppose political problem ( mircea_popescu simply loathes the idea , Answer Lies In The Sewers - style, ohnoez folx with modest means living rent-free ) does not ..?
20:18 mircea_popescu eh, my recollection of the discussion is, "there's houseboat and there's yacht. there's no batshit-nonsense for the ~same reason there's no golf club cum baseball bat cum tennis racket."
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20:18 mircea_popescu and no, it isn't some sort of brilliant idea to "you know, like swiss army knife, for sports handhelds!"
20:18 mircea_popescu just more of the same tedious, lazy, loathsome "reasoning" by simile.
20:21 mircea_popescu but otherwise -- no further than last year i sat and drank on a "QUIDNON". it was large and well furnished, built specifically for being casino. sat, logically, ON RIVER, beause no waves. and so forth.
20:22 mircea_popescu i need some roto'n culo to "invent" the houseboat for me like i need some indigent farmer to invent a new religion on the basis of "reading" tablets fallen from the sky.
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20:23 mircea_popescu (in passing let it be said that the universal and fundamental quality of snake oil is just this swiss army knife appearance, it's supposed to be everything for everyone but nothing in particular to no particular anyone.)
20:27 mircea_popescu oh, yeah, and the whole "rent free" nonsense bit a huge girder once i pointed out to you what the proper solution for this boating bs is ; then it turned out the whole thing was more of an exercise in inverting naggum's matrices "to see if it could be done" than anything specific.
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20:30 phf intuitively any rent free arrangement must necessarily cost more, because it's not subsidized by the master
20:31 mircea_popescu if you factor into this "rent free" what tomahawks copst anbd what they do for that money, you're sunk.
20:32 mircea_popescu the reason merchant class even appeared in medieval europe was because it's cheaper to rent a house in castle than it is to produce it. sucker's play, and that's how aristocracy bled to death.
20:32 mircea_popescu not like it wasn't fucking obvious, hence the whole "student" vagabond class, already well entranched by the time of villon.
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20:43 phf we're so far away from that division, that it's hard to reason about it, but on reflection it makes sense
20:53 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661225 << has approx same to do with modern rent racket, as with mars
20:53 a111 Logged on 2017-05-25 00:32 mircea_popescu: not like it wasn't fucking obvious, hence the whole "student" vagabond class, already well entranched by the time of villon.
20:54 mircea_popescu inexplicable, you know (never said maximillian) how i owe money to merchants for armies to defend/acquire the very fucking towns in which these merchants live. how is it that max owes fugger rather than fugger owing max ?!
20:56 asciilifeform those aristos died of stupidity-- thinking that they were exempt from having to learn about money, similarly to modern brahmins 'exemption' from crypto
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20:56 mircea_popescu i suppose.
20:57 phf asciilifeform: the specifics of rent racket are different, but same principles apply to escaping modern rent racket in any kind of real sense, beyond "don't you hate paying rent??? what if i told you you don't have to pay rent ever again!1" snake oil
20:57 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661219 << d00d never claimed to invent anything -- just publishes design, like FG is published, wat
20:57 a111 Logged on 2017-05-25 00:22 mircea_popescu: i need some roto'n culo to "invent" the houseboat for me like i need some indigent farmer to invent a new religion on the basis of "reading" tablets fallen from the sky.
20:58 mircea_popescu yes, yes.
20:58 mircea_popescu where do i buy it ?
20:58 mircea_popescu it's not like fg is published ; it's like escher is published.
20:58 asciilifeform afaik it was not released as of yet
20:58 mircea_popescu yaya
21:00 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661221 << old iron-bottomed ( built to be disposable ) diesels are no solution to anything but scrap business .
21:00 a111 Logged on 2017-05-25 00:27 mircea_popescu: oh, yeah, and the whole "rent free" nonsense bit a huge girder once i pointed out to you what the proper solution for this boating bs is ; then it turned out the whole thing was more of an exercise in inverting naggum's matrices "to see if it could be done" than anything specific.
21:01 mircea_popescu you will have to decide what your problem is. do you want cheap ? do you want made in kitchen ? do you want "looks like my wife's cunt" ? what, specifically, do you want ?
21:01 asciilifeform cheap + as close to 0 recurring cost as possible.
21:01 mircea_popescu you will never EVER be able to beat for price the discounted products of an industrial process through artisanal craftsmanship.
21:02 asciilifeform FG exists. so -- plainly false.
21:02 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yeah, you know what, giving your skill in formulating problems, i suspect orlov may have a solution justr for you.
21:02 asciilifeform when industry has 0 interest in your problem domain -- it's artisanal, or nuffin'
21:03 mircea_popescu the problem domain of "item that sails" is wel lcatered to. the problem domain of "doods feel like they're not personally interesting enough", never will.
21:04 asciilifeform item that sails ~for kalash budget~ is not well catered to. afaik.
21:04 mircea_popescu hey, i got a pair of two dollar shoes to sell you also.
21:04 asciilifeform these are products of mass industry, mircea_popescu
21:05 asciilifeform artisan, on otherhand, can make 2 $ shoes that will outlast mircea_popescu's 2$k
21:05 asciilifeform if he puts in the time.
21:05 mircea_popescu well, no, seeing how $ also product of mass industry. but yes, slavegirls make me all soreta things for free
21:05 mircea_popescu and they also don't pay rent.
21:05 mircea_popescu so maybe something more in that vein would satisfy.
21:06 asciilifeform same idea. orlol's, or gentoo, or almost all of asciilifeform's equipment, is of this type
21:06 asciilifeform 'be own slavegirl'
21:06 mircea_popescu the problem is that fg can be bought, and escher's drawings can not be bought. orlol is of the latter type.
21:07 asciilifeform this could very well be true, but imho oughta be approached as ~technical~ question
21:07 mircea_popescu it was, then you just raise it six months later as if it hasn't.
21:07 phf item that sails for kalash money exists, miss rockaway armada likes to build those
21:07 mircea_popescu mebbe just re-read discussion, offer specific objections ?
21:08 asciilifeform phf: sails+livable ?
21:08 phf asciilifeform: actually, yes, on both accounts, but you should perhaps image search miss rockaway armada
21:08 * asciilifeform puts on conveyor
21:09 mircea_popescu "livable" you know. the colonization of polynesia is living proof that man can live on a plank.
21:09 asciilifeform umm phf these dun look like oceanic vessels
21:09 asciilifeform disingenuous to compare
21:09 phf kalash money though
21:10 asciilifeform monkey living.
21:10 * mircea_popescu vaguely regrets he's not harun al rashid, sends sipahi over orlol's place, give him a year to make the damned thing and force him to sail in it.
21:10 asciilifeform i fully expect that he'll sail in it
21:11 phf reading orlol i thought he already had a sailable device? why aren't there plans&details for what he already allegedly has
21:11 mircea_popescu and i fully expect that as he drowns you'll find some other equivalent nonsense to fully expect will work.
21:11 asciilifeform phf: he had, then, like idiot, got a wife
21:11 mircea_popescu she beleeted the internets ?!
21:12 phf last time orlol's sail boat came up i linked some detailed plans by digital nomads for living houseboats. those were decidedly not built on kalash budget (mostly funded by alphabet companies, because choke full of electronics)
21:12 asciilifeform phf: the old boat, he sold, it was an off-the-shelf item
21:12 mircea_popescu wait. he had an oceangoing vessel on "kalash budget" he bought off the shelf ?
21:12 mircea_popescu wtf is this!
21:13 asciilifeform phf: if not open-ocean capable, it's rubbish, because fails at the elementary task of putting distance b/w operator and otherpeople
21:13 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in fact. iirc it cost him 10k usd or so, originally, in 2007ish
21:13 mircea_popescu what other people ? the other people who will grow your fucking food and do your laundry ?
21:13 asciilifeform yes, them
21:14 mircea_popescu this makes as much sense as any hobbyst discussion. ima check out.
21:14 asciilifeform also i dunno re mircea_popescu , but machine does my laundry
21:14 asciilifeform and would generate my food, if it could.
21:15 mircea_popescu if you have the laundry.
21:15 asciilifeform 100% physically closed cycle, motherfuckers, on mars, if i could!1111
↖
21:15 phf ^ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6_oEmG7DzU
21:15 mircea_popescu asciilifeform isn't death a cheaper altenrative ?
21:15 asciilifeform it's free!11
21:16 mircea_popescu "i don't want to die, i just want to go into a bottle."
21:16 asciilifeform but not nearly as fun
21:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu doesn't even consider introversion as anything other than insanity, does he.
21:16 mircea_popescu why not you know, get used to talking to mario $rando instead ? way the fuck easier than growing linen on the open ocean.
21:17 mircea_popescu actually, introversion per se is one thing. much like jumping on one foot is one thing. when you actually miss a leg it's a different story, and should regrow it!
21:18 asciilifeform at one point folx were used to typhus and everything, incl. houses of great lords ( see last night's plumbing b00k link ) stinking of shit. then came the tech to stop.
21:18 mircea_popescu anyway. i fully confess i am simply too lazy to grow cash crops on mars, prefer to just you know, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-24#1660854
21:18 a111 Logged on 2017-05-24 16:45 asciilifeform: i suppose you can have weekly-fresh-cunts XOR only-ever-talking-to-people-who-are-people
21:18 asciilifeform and it wasn't, somehow, any longer a thing to which 'you simply gotta get used to '.
21:18 mircea_popescu you want to technologize talking to people out of the equation of living ?
21:19 asciilifeform make optional. the way having children is.
21:19 mircea_popescu how is it not optional now.
21:19 asciilifeform it is optional now but veeey expensive.
21:20 mircea_popescu mmm. i dunno. i mean in the sense condoms are three bux or w/e, break the "Student"'s budget
21:20 asciilifeform if i were to pay 10x less rent, would have more than 10x the unwanted hyoomancontact.
21:20 mircea_popescu from experience or from extrapolation ?
21:20 asciilifeform experience.
21:21 mircea_popescu aite then.
21:25 asciilifeform fwiw i'd like to solve what i see as the solvable problem, of minimizing living expense without having to live among scum
21:26 mircea_popescu why not increase income ? it's the traditional approach.
↖
21:26 asciilifeform ( and in fact i considered lafondlandia, even, and did go there, and haggle with realtors, chitchat with the criminally insane locals, etc. and concluded that it was just short of +ev )
21:27 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: why not jump very high, and go to mars, aha
21:27 mircea_popescu there's a reason ~everyone applies that method. the reason being 10 overbids 9 whereas 8 does not.
21:28 mircea_popescu it's better to have more money than to pay less rent.
21:28 asciilifeform mega-insight
21:28 asciilifeform fact is that it is the most effective way to 'get moar money'
21:28 mircea_popescu with you i don't always know what'sa obvious.
21:28 asciilifeform to give less of it to rentseekers.
21:28 mircea_popescu this is actually not true.
21:28 mircea_popescu just make sure they deliver more than what they take.
21:29 mircea_popescu obligatory link to http://btcbase.org/log/2015-02-21#1026639
21:29 a111 Logged on 2015-02-21 01:19 mircea_popescu: "she's been going through 6-7k each month since autumn, but i get to go visit p diddy whenever i feel like it. it's a wash"
21:29 asciilifeform i'd happily move to a planet with no pdiddy.
21:30 mircea_popescu nevermind that. consider this : my living arrangements, were they to be separated as an independent profit center, were in the green pretty much every year for the past 20.
21:30 mircea_popescu the correct approach to "live rent free" is to work it as a business. the rest is poppycock.
21:30 asciilifeform this is possible when you're mircea_popescu and have leverage.
21:31 asciilifeform ( and jurisdiction-shopping )
21:31 mircea_popescu mp was born in a country where 20 dollars was a monthly salary. leverage is not so simple as all that.
21:32 asciilifeform and asciilifeform born where ~nobody knew what dollar looked like, lol , what of it
21:32 mircea_popescu i'm just saying, leverage isn't this magical thing from the sky.
21:32 asciilifeform it's not magical, no, but comes with having capital, vs subsistence living
21:33 mircea_popescu subsistence living has a peculiar meaning in romania of the 80s.
21:33 mircea_popescu lemme dig out a pic.
21:34 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2010/piinea-amara-a-baietasilor-de-cartier/ << 1st image there. ro "hip hop" band (ro terminology), ie gangsta rap. they ACTUALLY have the creds tho, comiong from the actual hood.
21:34 mircea_popescu which is what soviet style econom,ies were, cca 1990.
21:34 asciilifeform i dun see anything peculiar in the pics..
21:35 mircea_popescu hm. maybe it's one of those things where it doesn't denote, it connotes. anyway, first one is a fine indication of subsistence living in question.
21:37 asciilifeform i'll point out that su built massive economic base , on the plunder of which the 'civilized' west ~ to this day ~ runs
21:38 mircea_popescu that may be ; but there exists no ghetto in all of the us today that can compare to eg ghencea, or whatever other "urban development".
21:38 mircea_popescu lafond is hallucinating, those people live in luxury.\
21:38 asciilifeform visit bmore, mircea_popescu
21:39 mircea_popescu for one thing -- can actually buy meat. CAN. could.
21:39 asciilifeform incognito, if you must
21:39 asciilifeform orly
21:39 mircea_popescu sure. heck, there's even supermarkets they can borrow it from.
21:39 asciilifeform recall asciilifeform's 'food depo' photos ?
21:39 mircea_popescu yea ?
21:40 asciilifeform that meat ain't meat, it's whatever they scrape from the floor at meat plant, + corn starch
21:40 mircea_popescu get back to me when you find a household making it on 30 dollars a month.
21:40 mircea_popescu with the women making clothes by hand out of stolen scraps, and all the complexities of soups etc.
21:40 asciilifeform they're in afgan, where rent is 20
21:40 mircea_popescu india, ghetto. the us ? heh.
21:41 asciilifeform they also have living capital, in india etc : people who, e.g., still know how to make cloth, and can live N to a room without killing self or each other
21:41 mircea_popescu for that matter, get back to me when any of them actually work a field, by hand, to make 100 dollars in 6 months of oxen labour.
21:42 asciilifeform what field, lol
21:42 asciilifeform and whence the ox.
21:42 mircea_popescu THAT is what qualifies, not the butthurt bullshit of wanna-be princeses upset some other dorks they cant' distinguish themselves from got a cooler car.
21:42 mircea_popescu asciilifeform no ox. let them pull the plow.
21:42 asciilifeform and while suffering aids and ebola!111
21:43 mircea_popescu was ~no aids in romania. but i have personally seen woman pulling man pushing plow.
21:43 asciilifeform sounds inefficient
21:43 mircea_popescu very.
21:43 mircea_popescu which is the fundamental point of poverty.
21:43 asciilifeform why not both pull
21:43 mircea_popescu cuz then the blade just goes out ?
21:44 asciilifeform hm, point
21:44 mircea_popescu plowing tractors have special hydraulics to keep it in. lot of force, more than the pull.
↖
21:45 asciilifeform i thought mass was enough..
21:45 mircea_popescu i suppose you could just put a huge rock on it, but then the horse'll die.
21:45 * asciilifeform not expert on subj
21:47 asciilifeform !!up gabriel_laddel_p
21:47 deedbot gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
21:48 gabriel_laddel_p http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-24#1661195 < have you tried selling FG to data science / machine learning types? IE the only group of young people with disposable income.
21:48 a111 Logged on 2017-05-24 22:52 asciilifeform: to revisit upstack : i'd still like to find this shangri-la, between britney-rubbish and FG, where actual money is to be made.
21:49 gabriel_laddel_p On the basis that FG won't rest on some portion of the state space when you train your model
21:49 mircea_popescu eh, we're not trying to requalify him into a salesman over here.
21:49 gabriel_laddel_p and will give a better prediction / faster convergence than PRNGs
21:49 mircea_popescu let the man do his ada rsa
21:49 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: we even had a thread about this
21:49 gabriel_laddel_p asciilifeform: what, the geiger counter NN training, or another one?
21:49 asciilifeform fwiw worx great . but they'd rather use intel's.
21:50 asciilifeform because , for instance, they already have one.
21:50 gabriel_laddel_p asciilifeform: and you say this with what basis?
21:50 gabriel_laddel_p asciilifeform: you specifically talked to who?
21:50 gabriel_laddel_p asciilifeform: do you have numbers for convergence with FG vs intel PRNG?
21:50 gabriel_laddel_p for MNIST or the like?
21:50 gabriel_laddel_p I was planning on selling FG using this, but have a lot on my plate
21:51 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: interested in selling on commission perchance
21:51 asciilifeform ?
21:51 gabriel_laddel_p asciilifeform: not in my present state, and certainly not without numbers
21:52 gabriel_laddel_p I'm happy to compute myself, but am having a hard time convincing ppl to buy me FG
21:52 gabriel_laddel_p have tried, and tried and tried
21:52 gabriel_laddel_p no no, they'd rather buy several months worth of soylent
21:52 gabriel_laddel_p fucking retards
21:52 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: want couplea GB of output
21:52 gabriel_laddel_p jesus fuck
21:52 mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel_p can just use eg mod6 's dataset ? should be ~6gb i expect
21:52 asciilifeform theoretically you dun need a physical unit, for such a test
21:52 asciilifeform aha !!
21:53 gabriel_laddel_p mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: capital idea!
21:53 asciilifeform paging mod6
21:54 mircea_popescu now to see if he deleted it lol.
21:54 asciilifeform i or he or even mircea_popescu can make moar..
21:55 asciilifeform and whole buncha folx here
21:55 gabriel_laddel_p asciilifeform: diva send the x61? I have someone waiting on me to deliver a masamune atop it
21:55 gabriel_laddel_p and have already taken 300 of his dollars
21:55 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: it's crated but not out yet
21:56 asciilifeform busy week.
21:58 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: FG does, ftr, ~7kB/s.
21:58 asciilifeform ( slightly more, or slightly less, depending on room temp )
21:59 asciilifeform there is also some variation in the analogue components.
22:01 gabriel_laddel_p http://btcbase.org/log/2017-05-25#1661215 < the end of this thread was MP noting that if you wanted a boat, buy it when the Korean shipping firm imploded, else stuff.
22:01 a111 Logged on 2017-05-25 00:18 mircea_popescu: eh, my recollection of the discussion is, "there's houseboat and there's yacht. there's no batshit-nonsense for the ~same reason there's no golf club cum baseball bat cum tennis racket."
22:01 gabriel_laddel_p *stfu
22:03 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: i dun need an iron thing built to last for 10y and eating $1000 diesel to move 10km, for anything
22:05 asciilifeform why not suggest an old boeing, while at it.
22:05 phf can presumably spec out the thing by noting all the instances of "omg, i definitely not don't need X that does Y what are you stupid" and building a constraint rules out of them
22:06 asciilifeform phf: i specced 'sub-50kusd machine in which one can live and NOT near scum', i dun care if boat, could be an orbital capsule if such existed.
22:06 asciilifeform or teleporter, ditto
22:07 asciilifeform and live like man, not monkey
22:08 asciilifeform which means, yes, 'q' size bed, at minimal, and desk, and hermetic seal, etc
22:09 asciilifeform this may or may not be feasible with current tech. but is imho a legit technical problem.
22:09 asciilifeform rather than a 'stfu, idiot, you asked for philosopher's stone'
22:10 gabriel_laddel_p http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1506447
22:10 a111 Logged on 2016-07-19 22:30 mircea_popescu: if the sheep found a way to graze on rafts, the wolves would ride around in speedboats.
22:10 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: ocean is pretty big.
22:10 asciilifeform don't be a sheep, don't flock.
22:11 asciilifeform mean free wolf path will be long.
22:13 asciilifeform fact remains, pirate density is higher on land, than at sea.
22:13 asciilifeform afaik everywhere.
~ 20 minutes ~
22:34 phf i don't have enough experience with open ocean sailing, but the ocean is not as big as you think, as far as pirate avoidance is concerned, because of the currents. you have stable streams, that are essentially mandatory for long distance travel. piracy has been traditionally carried out at various locations where these currents terminate or switch. if you're primarily relying on wind (and there's only so much gas your little boat will carry), you will
22:34 phf be at huge disadvantage if you're attempting to avoid slipstreams.
22:35 phf so you basically have a choice between traveling along known paths (that will connect land to land, or near land)
22:36 phf or sitting without wind and current in the middle of nowhere, praying that you have enough gas to take you to a closest stream
22:37 phf (all of this is pretty obvious, if you ask yourself, how did you have so many skirmishes during the age of exploration, given how big the ocean is and how few vessels compared to now were on the surface)
22:38 asciilifeform phf: there is also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-05#1596880
22:38 a111 Logged on 2017-01-05 03:32 mircea_popescu: famous russian gun commentator guy explains this cannonicaly, imo. "thief - wants to get loot. not to die with you there."
22:39 asciilifeform afaik modern pirates deal in tankers, which are valuable ( and insured + unarmed ) and not car-sized yachts, likewise
22:40 asciilifeform incidentally this here is another possible minus of 'old tanker as houseboat' idea. picture the pirates. they might shoot you out of sheer frustration...
22:41 asciilifeform 'wtf, this thing is empty'
22:41 phf considering that the thing is designed for fambly, shooting will be a mercy
22:42 asciilifeform btw orlol never mentions kingstons, and imho they are the most important control on any serious boat!111
22:44 asciilifeform incidentally if you're gonna diesel, it ought to be in a sub ( or at least 'narco sub', no moar than half metre above water )
22:44 asciilifeform i know of 0 subs overtaken by pirates of any description...
22:46 phf yes, but what about the kraken
22:47 asciilifeform the kraken is sadly inescapable.
22:51 mircea_popescu phf the "constraint" resultant strictly determines the item as a psychological rather than physical constructy.
22:53 mircea_popescu he wants to pay ~what pvc costs per the weight for an ocean-going item. it's not unlike me speccing "i want computer made out of seminole grain. they can make pasta out of it, why not computer."
22:55 mircea_popescu not tom ention the part where it's "Car-sized" on the outside and "q-bed sized" on the inside.
22:58 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> not sure, possibly nobody gave a shit. << iirc no websites for either existed at the time of listing.
23:06 mod6 <+asciilifeform> paging mod6 << +gabriel_laddel_p, I've got 'em.
23:08 mod6 !~later tell gabriel_laddel_p Let me know how much entropy you'd like, I'll run ent test & dieharder against it, let you decide if you want it. I'll ask 0.1 BTC per Gb. What is your bid?
↖ ↖
23:08 jhvh1 mod6: The operation succeeded.
23:11 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the yacht i visited recently had 2 ~q - beds and was externally not larger than three BingoBoingo-trucks stacked vertically
23:11 asciilifeform 'car-sized' is flexible thing. car-footprint.
23:14 asciilifeform and yes, i'd expect to pay ~materials by weight~ cost, considering that thread was about a hypothetical boat that ~one builds with own hands~
23:15 asciilifeform ( because it is intrinsically 'antisheep' item and will NEVER exist as industrial output )
23:16 asciilifeform exactly like how mircea_popescu gets food finer than the finest, costliest cook could reliably make for him for money
↖ ↖
23:17 asciilifeform there is ~nothing~ that can remotely hold a candle to craftsmanship-with-your-own-hands-for-your-own-fucking-self
↖
23:18 mod6 asciilifeform: also, re 'wires', indeed, just experiment at this point, not for battlefield use.
23:18 asciilifeform even, for instance, the keyboard asciilifeform is using at this moment, took a man-month of asciilifeform
23:18 asciilifeform and cannot be had for any price at all
23:18 asciilifeform anywhere
23:19 asciilifeform and i'm quite satisfied with it, and wouldn't trade it for any industrially-produced supposedly-equivalent item.
23:19 asciilifeform ditto gentoo.
23:19 asciilifeform there is no substitute, i will probably die still using my current gentoo.
23:19 asciilifeform and certainly no 'one size fits all' jobsworth-made substitute
23:19 asciilifeform is even in principle possible, or worth contemplating
23:20 * mod6 recently gotn kinesis advantage 2
23:20 mod6 it's got the cherry mx reds. been using it for a month. im getting used to it.
23:21 * asciilifeform can't stand cherry switches
23:21 mod6 which ones does alf like?
↖
23:21 asciilifeform ibm 'F'
23:21 asciilifeform or, at the very worst, 'white alps'
23:22 asciilifeform (veeery distant 2nd)
23:22 mod6 is there any specific model you use/prefer?
23:23 mod6 i.e. 3179, 3270, ... etc.
23:23 asciilifeform F.
23:24 asciilifeform https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/IBM_Model_F_122.png << subj
↖
23:24 asciilifeform not to be confused with a certain visually-identical model-m
23:24 asciilifeform this one has 0 rubber in it.
23:24 asciilifeform and 0 rivets.
23:25 mod6 ah
23:25 asciilifeform if you ever manage to get hold of one, it'll need 1) paint strip 2) paint job, on 6 pieces 3) entirely new electronics 4) ultrasonic cleaning 5) calibration
23:26 asciilifeform mine also got rf-shield paint on all internals, for good measure (wai not)
23:26 asciilifeform oh and i oughta mention, getting the thing together requires woodworker's clamps and just-so nudge'shove, takes 5-6 tries, during each of which all 122 keys fall out and separate into spring, anvil...
23:27 asciilifeform not for faint-of-heart..
23:28 phf mod6: i used that one for a long time with arensito layout (http://www.pvv.org/~hakonhal/main.cgi/keyboard). still the most pleasant typing experience i've had, but was also entirely antisocial, i.e. couldn't use any other keyboards at all
23:28 asciilifeform the up-side : 1) incomparable ( at least i cannot describe it in words ) feel of 'click' 2) theoretically eternal board. there are NO electrical contacts exposed, it works on electric fields.
23:28 asciilifeform you can bathe it..
23:29 asciilifeform phf: that resembles naggum's layout
23:29 asciilifeform interesting.
23:29 asciilifeform ( he had 'special' chars in middle column )
23:30 mod6 phf: aha. even with qwerty on the kinesis, it still messes me up a bit now on regular staggard row layouts. i never tried alt layouts such as dvorak since a friend went through the same thing. always found himself having to switch everyone elses keyboard to dvorak just to "use" their keyboard for a minute.
23:30 phf yeah, there's actually some "modern" qwerty modification that puts special chars on middle column
23:31 phf but the big insight of arensito is to move all the special chars into an additional mode. so parenthesis are for example on altgr-k altgr-l etc.
23:31 asciilifeform this sounds like agony
23:31 phf not on kinesis
23:31 asciilifeform modes == agony
23:32 * asciilifeform doesn't vi, either
23:32 phf your modifiers are under your thumb, and you chord
23:32 asciilifeform why not have 10-key chorder then.
23:32 asciilifeform if yer gonna chord.
23:32 asciilifeform as it is, sounds like worst of both worlds.
23:32 phf ~sounds~ is the keyword here
23:33 asciilifeform i had a keyboard where you had to press 'fn' to turn numbers into Fs
23:33 asciilifeform it was a misery
23:33 asciilifeform and never, ever stopped.
23:33 phf yes, but it's nothing like the item in question
23:33 asciilifeform how does this chord differ ?
23:33 mod6 i vi/m, and i have to say that with the kinesis, the tiny ESC key bugs me. so i remap ESC to the right thumb ctrl key, and the 'OS' key to ctrl.
23:33 asciilifeform the only legit justification for chords is not-having-to-move-fingers-laterally
23:34 asciilifeform hence 10key kbd
23:34 phf you already chord to get to any of the special symbols, when you press shift
23:34 phf unless you have unchorded specials, and you use number keypad for numbers, but then you have hell of lateral travel
23:34 asciilifeform i remap '[' ']' to '(' ')' when lisp
23:34 asciilifeform phf didn't ?!
23:34 phf sure, but the rest
23:35 asciilifeform other specials not so useful in lisp
23:35 phf but you chord.
23:35 asciilifeform i also chord to get greek, sure
23:36 asciilifeform but i would stop if i could!
23:36 phf well, it's a trade off between that, and travel distance
23:36 asciilifeform would happily have 3 'stories' of kbd, like organ.
23:36 asciilifeform for a while i had pedals. threw'em out because mechanically infuriatingly poor quality
23:37 asciilifeform ( and -- perhaps like oceanic boat -- this is a MUCH trickier object to hand-craft than you might think )
23:38 asciilifeform key modes, imho, are like the topmost shelf in bookcase in a house with proper (19th c euro) ceiling height -- a place for rarely-used things
23:38 phf you're either chording or traveling. there's only enough space for alphabet there. naggum's hack is that he puts opening parts of { [ ( pairs on the middle row, but he still has to chord for closing. (he presumably uses electric mode)
23:39 asciilifeform iirc he had ( and ) both in there. but could be wrong.
23:39 asciilifeform ( if he didn't, i have nfi why not ! )
23:39 phf not enough space!
23:40 asciilifeform throw out some rubbish
23:40 phf like?
23:40 asciilifeform $ .
23:40 asciilifeform or @ .
23:40 asciilifeform or ; .
23:40 phf those are chorded AND you have to travel
23:41 asciilifeform what did he have in there ? phf do you have the original article handy ?
23:42 phf no, and i think it was in emacs group, so no xach archive
23:42 asciilifeform to revisit upstack : imho naggum's mega-insight was that the hands have 0 business being so close together as they typically are, and that the space ~between~ them oughta contain specials
23:42 asciilifeform phf: afaik xach has all usenet posts from naggum in all public groups
23:42 asciilifeform and certainly the keyboard
23:43 phf definitely not "all public groups" but maybe the keyboard is there
23:44 phf he basically just took the naggum posts from ron garret's complete(-ish) archive of comp.lang.lisp
23:45 asciilifeform >> http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3244633165773164@naggum.no.html <<
23:45 phf Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
23:46 phf “ and then you tell your keyboard driver og X or whatever that you have placed the parens {} [] () and <> (unshifted and shifted) in what used to be the 6YHN colum”
23:46 asciilifeform funnily enough, my 'f' gives me 24 'extra' keyz, of which i've only to date used a few ! ( to make the missing f11, f12, esc, printscr, scrollock )
23:46 asciilifeform the rest, yet unused, because in a shithole, rather than where i want'em
23:46 mod6 speaking of special keys in the middle, i suppose one could remap all of the maltron keys into the middle.
23:46 asciilifeform this even with not having to use x configs for anything, as i have custom micro in there with custom fw
23:48 asciilifeform not being able to physically relocate the keys, is frustrating.
23:48 mod6 i considered getting one of these, but i wanted to try the concave thing first on something ~half the cost.
23:49 asciilifeform ( i would , for instance, put a whole column of -- yes, modal!111 -- bitsetter 'metas' b/w the left-F block and `/tab/ctrl/shift/ctrl
23:49 asciilifeform )
23:50 asciilifeform e.g. 'greek', 'graph', 'rus/lat'
23:52 asciilifeform while we're on 'ideals', it'd be also spiffy to have a kbd with ~0~ plastic anywhere.
23:52 mod6 like all alum or steel?
23:53 asciilifeform stainless.
23:53 asciilifeform or better yet, inconel.
23:53 mod6 if anyone could make one, it'd be you.
23:54 asciilifeform well not me, but a similar d00d who lives longer.
23:54 asciilifeform and with money.
23:55 asciilifeform funny how folx will spend quadrillions on idiot veblenisms and 0 on actual quality.
↖
23:55 asciilifeform and then pete_dushenski et al are mega-surprised when they buy porche and it's plastic.
23:56 mod6 looks like they make stainless keyboards for industrial use
23:56 asciilifeform rubber domes inside, mod6
23:56 asciilifeform i have one in storage.
23:57 asciilifeform they are used in 'internet kiosks' etc.
23:57 mod6 ah
23:57 asciilifeform idea being 'vandal-proofing' rather than finest-kbd-money-can-buy
23:57 mod6 gotcha
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