Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2017-04-25 | 2017-04-27 →
00:31 ben_vulpes https://blog.buoyant.io/2017/04/25/whats-a-service-mesh-and-why-do-i-need-one/ << "everything must run over http" monomania in full effect
00:33 ben_vulpes parts of it have an odd feel, as though i were reading altcoin propaganda from another dimension
~ 33 minutes ~
01:06 mod6 Ladies and Gentlemen of The Most Serene Republic: My Second Offline Eatblock Sync Test is complete (with DB Read Wait Stats): http://www.mod6.net/eatblock-test/
01:07 mod6 I have updated all the statistics, charts, and commentary in place.
01:08 mod6 Thanks to diana_coman for the help with gnuplot!
01:14 mircea_popescu o hey
01:17 mircea_popescu mod6 maybe i'm thick, but where's the per-line timing per block ?
01:23 mod6 hi
01:24 mod6 if you're looking at this chart: http://www.mod6.net/eatblock-test/trb_offline_eatblock.png
01:25 mod6 this is built from this line in the debug.log, for example: "ProcessBlock (res == 1) took : 2901ms; db write wait: 313ms; db read wait: 155ms "
01:25 mod6 the red lines are the first number after "took", so in the case of the example above, ProcessBlock took 2901 milliseconds.
01:26 mod6 is that what you're asking?
01:34 mod6 It wouldn't take much more effort to add the AcceptBlock values into the trb_offline_eatblock.png if that's wanted.
01:35 mircea_popescu what i was looking for was, supposing the whole of trb looks like : http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/YOK7i/?raw=true then something like : http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/qGO07/?raw=true
01:35 mircea_popescu literally, time per line of code per block.
01:36 * mod6 looks
01:36 mod6 ah. ok.
01:37 mircea_popescu kinda give a time heatmap for the whole codebase, as it were.
01:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform "specifically made to" means a lot less than it appears to, for reasons such as euler's equality etc. pi is a fundamental constant, it's everywhere.
01:39 mod6 sure. i missed that point completely - was just putting some stats together from alf's timer/odometer vpatches. i think something along the lines of what you're referring to takes deeper, or much more extensive instrumentation / profiling.
01:40 mod6 asciilifeform: unless I'm missing something major from one of your vpatches? (i've also posted my debug.log -- please take a second to see if I'm missing something major if you have a spare one)
01:41 mod6 but, in any case, I could work on further analysis like that, mircea_popescu
~ 6 hours 33 minutes ~
08:14 asciilifeform mod6: you didn't miss any patch
08:15 asciilifeform mod6: and mircea_popescu seems to br asking for gprof raw out
08:15 asciilifeform this is easy to get, but he ouhta read http://yosefk.com/blog/how-profilers-lie-the-cases-of-gprof-and-kcachegrind.html first.
08:16 asciilifeform *be asking
08:23 asciilifeform and fwiw i did not use gprof when i determined where to put the timer -- i used an actually clueful initial hypothesis, and an outer timer ( on ProcessBlock, which was the item of interest ) to compare the output of various inner ones against.
08:23 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-26#1648004 << no i know, but it can't hurt to have
08:23 a111 Logged on 2017-04-26 12:15 asciilifeform: this is easy to get, but he ouhta read http://yosefk.com/blog/how-profilers-lie-the-cases-of-gprof-and-kcachegrind.html first.
08:24 mircea_popescu moreover, there's not that many published large codebase sort of thing. in fact, this may be the largest ever.
08:26 asciilifeform 1 snag is that -- afaik -- gprof doesn't work with static bins, or musl.
08:27 mircea_popescu mm. doesn;t it ?
08:27 asciilifeform iirc.
08:29 asciilifeform https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~sugih/pointers/gprof_quick.html << gprof likbez, if anyone wants to try.
~ 36 minutes ~
09:06 mod6 aha, ok thanks for the info alf.
09:06 mod6 will start looking into that. no reason why I cant set that up and do another run.
09:07 mircea_popescu mod6 he has a point, it is a pit of vipers, but at least we'd know.
09:09 mircea_popescu asciilifeform for one thing, the yossi kreinin piece doesn't EVEN USE an actual program. and this "let's imagine" fluff is pretty much peak data in this "field" of "cultured folks". naimean ?
09:13 mircea_popescu (for the record, his "proper fixation" quote is opaque. fixation is generally used in medicine, but histopathology branch thereof, to denote preparation of microscope slides. if he means "tying up the person", i'd guess that'd be proper affixation or something (not really affixation, that's a grammar term of art), though it's entirely disused.)
09:14 mircea_popescu proper affixion*
09:17 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: unfortunately the d00d is quite correct in his description of the mechanism. gprof doesn't work in the obvious, sane way ( a mechanized version of what i did -- per-routine timer ) but using randomized sampling.
09:17 mod6 ah, herp. missed that part about the statics & musl
09:18 shinohai Was in a discussion this morning with someone regarding mircea_popescu 's "How to take control of your provider" piece and was shown this horror: https://twitter.com/SarahDiAvola/status/857214088471953409
09:18 mircea_popescu asciilifeform ah no dispute as to the theory. just ... practice kills us.
09:19 mircea_popescu shinohai on a scale of 1 to nuts, that's not even cashews.
09:20 mircea_popescu also, ask her for me how does she know to open "the ones with $" without reading the rest.
09:20 mircea_popescu "i read a book i like twice, but books i don't like i don't read at all!11"
09:20 shinohai I had never seen that particular device, and boy have I seen some strange ones.
09:21 mircea_popescu she's got a very nice bj, actually. who dunnit ?
09:21 asciilifeform reminds me of the dream i just woke up from -- where i found a way to send a bit backwards in time
09:23 shinohai Most of the girls won't answer their DM's unless sent > $20 fee. Answering these emails for select ladies could be profitable for me if they'd only pay in Bitcoin.
09:24 mircea_popescu twitter takes a fee ?
09:25 shinohai Nope, the findom girls do tho.
09:29 asciilifeform https://archive.is/NieCy << in other lulzies
09:32 mircea_popescu shinohai how does she know what to read ?
09:32 mircea_popescu asciilifeform imbecile somehow missed the point that last reverted "upgrade" got "majority" within a week.
09:33 mircea_popescu !!rate rick falkvinge -10 doddering imbecile, entirely unqualified to speak publicly on any matter.
09:35 shinohai I dunno yet for sure, seems each of the greedy bitches has a different method. I'm sure eventually I can automate this too.
09:37 mircea_popescu basicallty, their method is lie();
09:37 mircea_popescu though some just use pretend()
09:38 shinohai The whole of their twitter empire is an illusion, not that I care how much they lie as long as *my* payment is forthcoming.
09:39 shinohai But yes, pretend makes up majority of shitposts in attempt to make themselves appear in demand.
09:39 mircea_popescu the whole "findom" business is a rather funny comment on female behaviour and the nature of the human brain. so out of all the services freeranged cunt could provide to substitute the wife in man's daily economy, "taking his paycheck" is certainly the least useful. but then again as far as the woman's concerned, it's why she got married in the first place.
09:40 mircea_popescu so... let's offer the... service of... doing what we wanted to do anyway. this is a business proposition, now.
09:40 * shinohai recalls one girl who used fakeinvoicegenerator.com or somesuch to make it appear subs were paying.
09:40 mircea_popescu and "it works" because IT HAS TO, because hey, americans, wholly brain rotten, "can do anything". and if you can you must and therefore let's claim and nobody'll give us the lie because everyone's in the same rut.
09:40 shinohai Didn't bother to crop the url from screenshots
09:40 mircea_popescu shinohai it happens, but it happens like it happens in browser games.
09:40 mircea_popescu ie, you get lucky. most don't.
09:42 mircea_popescu then those who do lord it over the ones who don't, irrespective of how they had ~no merit in it, then those who don't get frustrated and double down their efforts because hey, it's personal now, and that's how women judge their self worth, and so on and so forth.
09:43 mircea_popescu if the academia scam weren't there to extract the ones with iq > room temp from "street lyfe", we'd be stuck fishing this end of the lulz pond rather than campuses.
09:43 shinohai lol
09:46 shinohai I'm rather willing to bet 99% of these "dommes" would be flipped in an instant on arrival to mp's harem.
09:46 mircea_popescu how would such arrival work ?
09:47 mircea_popescu no, i expect something more along the lines of http://trilema.com/2011/deci-de-revelion-acum-niste-ani/ ; ie providing they somehow landed in they'd identify a situation according to their own mental furnishings, which'd have nothing much to do with the actual situation, then proceed to "Strategize" on that basis and the girls would toy with her for as long as that's funny before chewing her up and spitting her out.
09:48 shinohai That would be even *more* entertaining.
09:49 mircea_popescu possibru
09:50 shinohai http://archive.is/oOYD8 <<< Supports segwit, hates scams. Noted.
09:53 mircea_popescu shinohai lol "like they did with etc".
09:53 mircea_popescu dorks.
09:56 shinohai If only anyone actually gave a shit about Litecoin.
09:56 mircea_popescu asciilifeform anyway, either approach discussed is ridiculous. i don't need valgrind to emulate a processor and then guess how long things' take ; i don't want gprof's sampling either. just awk the codebase to add a printf after each instruction spitting out time and recompile. that's it.
09:57 mircea_popescu shinohai well, if they keep talking about it as if someone does, certainly someone one day will.
09:57 mircea_popescu financial domination!!11
09:57 shinohai Something, something, LTC
09:57 shinohai I'm rich.
10:01 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: good luck parsing cpp grammar (yes, all of it...) in awk.
10:01 mircea_popescu it still uses semicolons yes ?
10:01 asciilifeform think.
10:02 mircea_popescu ask me to do something i'm good at!
10:02 asciilifeform can't put printf in , e.g., declarations.
10:02 mircea_popescu aren't those in .h ?
10:03 asciilifeform not exclusively.
10:03 mircea_popescu heh.
10:05 mircea_popescu anyway, point still remains, the way to do this is printf time&line each line.
10:06 mircea_popescu awk oneliner may not be available, but in point of fact "find the lines" is a ~solved problem, even for borland ide.
10:06 asciilifeform sadly, again nope
10:06 asciilifeform see callgraph thread.
10:06 mircea_popescu eh!!!
10:07 mircea_popescu in other DOH, "people who write bad code will misuse profilers also" ~yosefk.
10:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu decided ahead of time to barf -- and did so
10:08 mircea_popescu no i was quoting this as a right and proper observation.
10:08 mircea_popescu wasn't a protest.
10:09 asciilifeform i disagree that there is anything fundamentally misleading in the linked piece.
10:09 mircea_popescu i think he's making an important point.
10:09 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i'm not saying there is ; i am saying i don't care for either method of profiling he discusses for this usecase.
10:10 asciilifeform aah
10:10 mircea_popescu if you're interested in either gprof or valgrind's callgrind, or both or whatever, his thing is useful. but i'm not. specifically because bitcoin is too large and slow to be run on valgrind-simulated cpu, and moreover if we could do that we wouldn't have any of the problems we currently approach anymore.
10:10 mircea_popescu and gprof is just not useful, with the sampling and etc.
10:11 asciilifeform valgrind doesn't simulate cpu
10:11 asciilifeform it does approx what mircea_popescu asked for
10:12 mircea_popescu afaik it does.
10:12 asciilifeform and result is 500x slowdown.
10:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: doesn't simulate cpu -- read the src/docs
10:13 asciilifeform but does insert probes.
10:13 mircea_popescu dude...
10:13 mircea_popescu first fucking line. "cachegrind simulates"
10:13 asciilifeform cachegfind
10:13 asciilifeform Grr
10:13 mircea_popescu http://valgrind.org/docs/manual/cg-manual.html <
10:14 asciilifeform cachegrind
10:14 mircea_popescu yes. it is a valgrind plugin is it not.
10:14 mircea_popescu "valgrind [when used for this purpose through this module] simulates" etc.
10:14 asciilifeform this yes
~ 1 hours 30 minutes ~
11:45 mircea_popescu http://logs.minigame.bz/2017-04-26.log.html#t15:22:21 << perhaps of republican interest.
11:45 lobbesbot Logged on 2017-04-26 15:22:21: <mircea_popescu> puts the whole "only fate of average mankind is harem slavery" rhetoric quite into focus.
~ 20 minutes ~
12:05 phf gprof interrupts the program every few ms and saves the backtrace, the whole family is called "sampling profilers" because it only knows of functions that it saw during the interrupt. functions with runtime < interrupt ms show up with wrong estimates
12:06 phf valgrind i take it from what asciilifeform is saying instruments the code, in an equivalent of putting printf after every statement
12:06 mircea_popescu phf functions with any runtime that average about the interval PER CALL show up all over the place.
12:06 phf cachegrind is something else entirely :o
12:06 mircea_popescu cachegrind is a valgrind plugin eh.
12:07 phf right
12:19 shinohai !~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/yBR9C/?raw=true
12:19 jhvh1 shinohai: The operation succeeded.
~ 33 minutes ~
12:52 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4D1E6E444832FBBE0092F39A459F03112F0D8F32637F1DC8B8245A86C16578B7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1778...3099 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '81.170.222.10 (ssh-rsa key from 81.170.222.10 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (h-81-170-222-10.NA.corp.bahnhof.se. SE D)
12:52 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4D1E6E444832FBBE0092F39A459F03112F0D8F32637F1DC8B8245A86C16578B7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1413...1427 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '81.170.222.10 (ssh-rsa key from 81.170.222.10 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (h-81-170-222-10.NA.corp.bahnhof.se. SE D)
12:52 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/308C79ED32BB1D28E5F59EC4ADB2E56B1ED16614D3B4C737238FC3D169AF94B0 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 15 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Robert J. Hansen; Robert J. Hansen <rjh@sixdemonbag.org>; '
12:52 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/DB096A7B64B9F4A9CE82785D9AF80E50E2AAE4BCC607BF6BFDACDD92BF65873C << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 15 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'PGP Global Directory Verification Key; '
12:52 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5377DC3F52C67DB02FB2F4CBC7391DDD471AF66B9AFF37F4A5FB782434DC1748 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 15 divides RSA Moduli belonging to 'Shell Arkell <shell@zenrio.net>; '
12:52 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/49636881FF5C8C4B95D9CA4B2AB73D5C13B35FF5D9AB0DA41B9E8EC1231F33E5 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 15 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '46.45.142.230 (ssh-rsa key from 46.45.142.230 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (voip.istanbuldc.com. TR)
12:54 shinohai lol @ turkish one
12:55 asciilifeform in other lulz, 'Korean Bitcoin Exchange Yapizon Loses 3,831 BTC Due To Hack'
12:55 asciilifeform 1) collect btc from chumps 2) 'get hacked' 3) profit
12:55 asciilifeform apparently works same today as in 2011.
12:56 shinohai ^ will add to shitcoin roundup
12:57 asciilifeform voip.istanbuldc.com << this and 1,001 other voip crapolades. gotta wonder why usg is so fixated on voice telephony.
12:58 shinohai Must have fingers in all teh telcom pies. (See upcoming Qntra for more telcom lulz )
~ 21 minutes ~
13:20 BingoBoingo ty shinohai
13:21 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/04/g-inflation-continues-in-fiat-rf-allocation-with-austin-texas-getting-fifth-g/ << Qntra - G Inflation Continues In Fiat RF Allocation With Austin, Texas Getting Fifth G
13:21 shinohai ty BingoBoingo I have another one in limbo
13:22 BingoBoingo good luck
~ 3 hours 13 minutes ~
16:35 asciilifeform in other lulz, https://v.teknik.io/v/MlDDG << 'FUCKGOATS unboxing' ( pankkake ! )
16:36 asciilifeform <pankkake> if I knew there would be goatse, I would have bought earlier
16:36 asciilifeform lulzy.
~ 30 minutes ~
17:06 pete_dushenski http://archive.is/yzAMq << "Grayscale Investments plans to launch the first-ever private fund focused on ethereum classic"
17:07 shinohai http://www.antbleed.com/ lel
17:07 asciilifeform ahahahahahaha
17:07 pete_dushenski i badly wish silbert's latest fund were a late apr1 joke. just seems too cruel to be true!
17:08 pete_dushenski https://grayscale.co/ethereum-classic-investment-trust/
17:09 pete_dushenski "Annual Fee: 3% (includes Development Contribution)*"
17:09 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-08#749741 << see also
17:09 a111 Logged on 2014-07-08 23:51 asciilifeform: if you can stop all miners but yours - for a given interval - you can plunder blocks at far below the expected energy cost
17:09 asciilifeform + http://btcbase.org/log/2014-07-08#749717
17:09 a111 Logged on 2014-07-08 23:48 asciilifeform: if you can arrange for, say, the entire crop of 'bfl' units to spin their wheels fruitlessly during known time intervals, your own miners (presumably exempt) can be scheduled to run then and precisely then
17:09 pete_dushenski "* The Sponsor intends to direct up to one-third of the Annual Fee, for the first three years of the Trust's operations, towards initiatives that support development, marketing, and community activities of the Ethereum Classic Network."
17:10 shinohai haha I was searching for that tidbit in the logs asciilifeform, thought you had said this previously.
17:11 asciilifeform for ze l0gz: 'The firmware checks-in with a central service randomly every 1 to 11 minutes. Each check-in transmits the Antminer serial number, MAC address and IP address. Bitmain can use this check-in data to cross check against customer sales and delivery records making it personally identifiable. The remote service can then return "false" which will stop the miner from mining.'
17:12 phf beautiful call
17:12 asciilifeform 'backdoor allows Bitmain to shut off a large section of the global hashrate (estimated to be at up to 70% of all mining equipment). It can also be used to directly target specific machines or customers.'
17:14 pete_dushenski "Even without Bitmain being malicious, the API is unauthenticated and would allow any MITM, DNS or domain hijack to shutdown Antminers globally. Additionally the domain in question DNS is hosted by Cloudflare making it trivially subjected to government orders and state control.
17:14 pete_dushenski "
17:14 pete_dushenski tragicomedy gold
17:15 jhvh1 No one could have predicted!
17:23 shinohai Apparently there is remote code execution exploitation in this backdoor as well: "unexploitable out-of-buffer read access in if(strstr(rec,"false")) as rec may not be zero-ended if 1024 bytes are received."
17:25 * shinohai goes to shithub to see what else might actually be in there
~ 1 hours 18 minutes ~
18:44 asciilifeform pete_dushenski et al : there is no particular reason to suppose that subj is the ~only~ back door, also.
18:55 shinohai BingoBoingo: http://archive.is/Jhv2t
18:56 BingoBoingo lulzies, should have refused service. This is a srs warning to funeral home insurers
18:57 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-10-19#883002 << oblig
18:57 a111 Logged on 2014-10-19 03:18 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 500 lb. body causes fire at Henrico crematory << one time i spent an evening reading cremator manuals (for no particular reason. happened to stroll by a modern crematory on evening walk in new street, was curious.) every manufacturer has special instructions for the peculiarly fat 'clients.'
19:00 BingoBoingo Aha, yes. This keeps happening enough that the only final solution here is refusing service. This must be driven by insurers unless Obama care has perverted the meaning of insurance in the post-health industry too.
19:00 asciilifeform or cremate in open air pyre, like hindus.
19:01 asciilifeform ( where moar fuel --> merrier )
19:01 asciilifeform or on a barge, like viking.
19:01 asciilifeform many possibilities.
19:02 BingoBoingo No, only solution is force the obest to slow cremations on manure pile.
19:04 shinohai If burned in barged, what ensures complete combustion so the remaining fats don't seep into the water supply and pollute ?
19:04 shinohai *in barge
19:05 asciilifeform shinohai: ever boil water in a paper cup ?
19:05 shinohai Can't say I have.
19:05 asciilifeform try it some time
19:06 mircea_popescu does microwave do it ?
19:06 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: yes, but not interestingly.
19:06 asciilifeform point is that it won't burn until water boils out.
19:07 pete_dushenski pete_dushenski: it'd be more surprising if it were the only backdoor. like ferrari factory authorised odometer rollback (this recently too!) would be surprising if it were only sketchy business practice that $RACE engaged in.
19:07 pete_dushenski lol ^ asciilifeform
19:08 pete_dushenski i could at least ping one of my own sockpuppets eh
19:10 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-26#1648125 << because empire of idiots. actually believes bottom is best.
19:10 a111 Logged on 2017-04-26 16:57 asciilifeform: voip.istanbuldc.com << this and 1,001 other voip crapolades. gotta wonder why usg is so fixated on voice telephony.
19:17 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-26#1648148 << trivially bypassed, though. i expect more of a "checking if anyone's awake" sort of thing.
19:17 a111 Logged on 2017-04-26 21:12 asciilifeform: 'backdoor allows Bitmain to shut off a large section of the global hashrate (estimated to be at up to 70% of all mining equipment). It can also be used to directly target specific machines or customers.'
19:19 asciilifeform every booby is 'trivially bypassed' AFTER YOU FOUND IT lol
19:19 mircea_popescu it's not so hard to fucking notice your box is dialing out.
19:19 asciilifeform afaik nobody till now ever admitted to having noticed. fwiw.
19:20 mircea_popescu now imagine instead of "false" it actually wanted the time signed.
19:20 mircea_popescu well yes, mining business is secretive.
19:20 asciilifeform imho biggest surprise is that there still is such a thing as a not fully vertically-integrated mining op.
19:20 mircea_popescu this is doubtful.
19:21 asciilifeform it'd appear to follow trivially from the noose item ( why would ant sabotage ~own~ iron. )
19:22 asciilifeform unless subj concerned a stolen/otherwise 'with legs' item. which is possible, i have nfi.
~ 15 minutes ~
19:37 mircea_popescu they're chinese, they don't make sense. but anyway.
19:44 mircea_popescu "My own experience here is depressing – nobody, not even the smartest folks, is willing to read anything unless they came specifically to read. If they came for any other purpose, forget it. When you're a tutorial, you can tell things to people and they listen. When you're an error message, people read you to the extent necessary to make you go away but no further. And when you're a warning, people simply ignore you. It suc
19:44 mircea_popescu ks to be a warning. People also don't expect things to be complicated enough to warrant a tutorial, so they won't allocate time specifically to read one, on any topic, for any reason. They're wrong, of course, but they won't ever find that out, to the best extent of their abilities."
19:45 mircea_popescu ^yossi, paraphrased slightly.
19:45 mircea_popescu he's pessimistic about big red warnings, i'm pessimistic about the ~possiblity~ of an english-language culture.
19:53 mod6 werd to that
19:59 mircea_popescu its hard
~ 1 hours 23 minutes ~
21:23 shinohai http://archive.is/oub2t "Järlström is now suing the state board .... arguing that it's unconstitutional to prevent someone from doing math without the government's permission"
21:36 mod6 lol
21:39 mod6 maga, tell me more.
21:39 mod6 burn. it. all.
21:42 * shinohai hands mod6 some matches....
21:50 trinque sorry; someone already filed a patent on combustion.
21:50 trinque hope you've got an army of lawyers for that match.
21:57 mircea_popescu pretty cool name though
21:58 mod6 ya
21:58 mod6 typical usg insanity tho.
21:59 mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2015-01-27#993638
21:59 a111 Logged on 2015-01-27 04:51 mod6: We regret to inform you that your republic has termites.
22:00 mircea_popescu anyway, this has all the makings of adventure
22:06 mod6 it certainly seems like it.
22:07 mod6 i mean, i had a recent foray into all kinds of nonsense since my mom got sick. the whole thing is just ... b0rk3d. fubar.
22:08 mod6 the chance for honest reform came and went at least 20 years ago. probably more like 40.
22:08 mod6 now there is only "hope it implodes"
22:09 BingoBoingo I dun think anyone gave Oregon as it presently exists much hope for much mercy when The Great Again comes
22:10 mod6 yah, we see this type of feckless, coercive shit everwhere you look these days
22:11 trinque try hiring someone in this environment.
22:11 mod6 none of this is limited to Oregon. At least they have their heads screwed on straight with "Right-to-Die" or whatever.
22:11 mircea_popescu trinque slave economy only.
22:11 trinque or selling the most trivial of "tech" (read: some fuckin website)
22:12 mod6 mircea_popescu: yah, certainly seems to be headed in the direction like your #eulora log link earlier.
22:12 BingoBoingo shinohai: Are you still interested in doing TMSR Journal of Whorticulture?
22:12 mircea_popescu such a great name.
22:12 mod6 heheh
22:12 shinohai BingoBoingo: I am. Still in research phase though :/
22:13 trinque mod6: yeah but the "right to die" thing grows out of trying to cut socialist costs
22:13 mircea_popescu mod6 it's just... outside of extremely exceptional cases, the bar for trust needed to hire someone far exceeds the bar of trust needed to have them live with your other girls. it's just nonsense like that.
22:13 mircea_popescu basically the talktards have managed to give away EVERY.SINGLE.GAIN of three centuries of industrialization.
22:14 BingoBoingo shinohai: About how long until a live site spins up? Some agriCulture news is dropping tomorrow and Qntra isn't the right venue. Can go on personal blog if the journal is not yet publishing, but... content will be available if the venue exists.
22:14 mod6 trinque: well, whatever the impetus, it still beats "you must suffer because you can't self-terminate. life is precious(tm)"
22:14 * mircea_popescu went to business school here today, spent five minutes listening in on what evidently was the graduation project of some 4th year kid. do you know what he had ?
22:14 trinque mod6: certainly.
22:14 mircea_popescu he had a succession of slides (uncredited) depicting mostly obscure sportsmen and singers. he wanted to know what the audience thought they had in common.
22:15 mircea_popescu his answer ? exito. (success).
22:15 BingoBoingo !~bash 4
22:15 jhvh1 Last 4 lines bashed and pending publication
22:15 mod6 haha
22:15 mircea_popescu his project was a loose talk on the topic of "entrepreneurialness as a sport", and it was through and through pre-literare juju worship.
22:15 mircea_popescu "these here bears have the fighting spirit, i want to be great warrior, i worship bear totem"
22:16 mircea_popescu white man used to have a literate culture built atop a capitalist society etcetera etcetera. the fucking africans have won, it's all gone by now.
22:16 mircea_popescu five centuries building, fifty years squandering.
22:16 shinohai BingoBoingo: I'd say publish for now on personal blog, will republish on new site when I get the kinks out.
22:17 mod6 mircea_popescu: just reckless beyond all comprehension. quite interesting times, these are.
22:17 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-27#1648225 << organ market. the belgian scum admitted to it quite recently.
22:17 a111 Logged on 2017-04-27 02:13 trinque: mod6: yeah but the "right to die" thing grows out of trying to cut socialist costs
22:18 trinque ah, profit center even.
22:18 asciilifeform 'unhappened' , of course.
22:18 mircea_popescu what else are they good for ?
22:18 mircea_popescu and plox don't tell me "creativity" thx.
22:19 asciilifeform 'if you can, you must' (tm)(r)
22:20 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-27#1648229 << folx were cashing in their chips long before 'legal', the 'reform' is about something very much else. see above.
22:20 a111 Logged on 2017-04-27 02:14 mod6: trinque: well, whatever the impetus, it still beats "you must suffer because you can't self-terminate. life is precious(tm)"
22:22 mod6 well, i only use that as an exception
22:23 mod6 it recently felt pretty fucking awful to watch my mom wither away infront of my eyes while suffering. not allowed to die, she doesn't have permission.
22:23 mod6 i'd have killed her myself if they'd let me.
22:24 mircea_popescu mod6 afaik the white man custom is, doctor prescribes whole month of sedatives, she accidentally takes them.
22:24 mod6 it ~basically~ comes down to that.
22:24 mircea_popescu well how'd you have it work ?
22:24 mod6 BUT, you have to have insurance or whatever to get that.
22:24 trinque whatever else, the old/infirm without question belong to whatever next of kin
22:24 trinque if they're not still paying own way
22:24 mod6 they were all like. "OMG SHE DOESN"T HAVE 24 HOUR CARE AT HOME?!?!?"
22:25 mod6 "NO. WE TOLD YOU THIS 69,000 YOU COCKSUCKERS."
22:25 mircea_popescu trinque and the king belongs to the kingdom and what else ?
22:25 mod6 "WHAT IF SHE WONDERS OFF AND FREEZES TO DEATH?!"
22:25 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: Other traditional solution is "making comfortable" where narcotics perscribed for pain increases in steps until amount is incompatible with life
22:25 mod6 "WHAT IF?!"
22:25 mircea_popescu mod6 she could walk off ?
22:26 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo aha, bout same.
22:26 mod6 they made us take her home when we said that we were not going to treat her cancer.
22:26 mircea_popescu the hospital you mean ?
22:26 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: aha, just the color of "medical necessity"
22:26 trinque mircea_popescu: king would still be paying own way, eh?
22:26 mircea_popescu who counts the paying ?
22:27 mod6 yeah, the hospital.
22:27 * mod6 burns with rage
22:27 mircea_popescu do hookers pay their own way ? subquestion : i know this woman who pays a dude to rent from her, and also has to suck him off. is she paying her way ?
22:27 mod6 the entire thing i went through in the last 90 days just affirms to me how truly fucked up this shit is.
22:27 mircea_popescu mod6 the idea being that they're in the business of treating, gotta be treatin' or not there.
22:28 mod6 which is fine. everyone is obviously entitled to make a profit.
22:28 mod6 that's not the problem.
22:28 mircea_popescu im not even sure it's the profit, prolly shortage of specialist beds.
22:28 mircea_popescu i don't think i've ever seen a jurisdiction where oncology beds weren't short. ever.
22:28 mod6 they then turned around on us and tried to get the state involved saying that we were being neglectful of a vulnerable adult.
22:28 mircea_popescu kinda says it's own sad story about the state of postindustrial world, this.
22:29 trinque well that's the whole thing, as I see it
22:29 mod6 she had 4 days fully covered. and about 40% of the other three days... mind, she was only at home for 20 days.
22:29 trinque adult incapable of self-care belongs to either gutter or own family
22:29 mod6 anyway, it never came to anything, because then we got her into a charity hospice.
22:29 * trinque incidentally had a family friend die of same type of cancer last week
22:29 mod6 but if it wasn't for that! then what?
22:29 mod6 sorry trinque :[
22:30 mircea_popescu sucks.
22:30 mircea_popescu mod6 yeah, it's an iffy thing all around. most hospices are a) insanely expensive considering what that same dollar'd get you in say vegas and b) really worse conditions than ~anything seen in civilian housing.
22:31 mod6 yah for sure. this place she went was actually pretty damn good, considering, free.
22:31 mod6 but man, $5k up front to walk in the door for any non-free place.
22:31 mircea_popescu got lucky, i'd say.
22:31 asciilifeform usg is involved -- so naturally $1k bedpans, $200k bedpan-emptying-specialists.
22:31 mircea_popescu from what i hear it's actuallyh on the mend, was significantly worse cca 2000s, but anyway.
22:31 BingoBoingo <mod6> yeah, the hospital. << Grandpa had to move from hospital with excellent rehab program and pallative care to "speciallist" rehabilitation nursing facility, and the day he made the move was when his post-stroke decline became unrecoverable.
22:31 mod6 and then it's like something like $5k a week for room/board after that + medical expenses.
22:32 mod6 mircea_popescu: we got uber lucky. that's the point. you shound't have to get lucky when something like this happens.
22:32 mircea_popescu mod6 20k a week gets you the penthouse at the taj mahal + your personal dozen hookers.
22:32 mircea_popescu and they wanna tell me one sixth of a fat woman and some moldy upholstery is "market competitive" ?
22:32 mircea_popescu 20k a month, i mean.
22:33 mod6 yah its crazy
22:33 asciilifeform mmno 20k/mo doesn't even get you a 4star suite in chicago.
22:33 mircea_popescu ...
22:33 mod6 BingoBoingo: sorry to hear that :/
22:33 BingoBoingo Small town hospital had room service and pastoral service with nuns coming through for communion every day. "Rehabilitation nursing" facility had "fall alarms" allegedly addressed eventually.
22:34 mod6 Anyway, i shake my head. I mentioned it during the whole thing a month or so ago. It was total chaos at best.
22:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the peninsula is ready to give you teh grand deluxe room at 500/night. half price for a whole month. call them.
22:34 mod6 BingoBoingo: sounds familiar. my mom hated the alarms. she set them off one day, few days before she died, and fought two young nurses over it.
22:35 mod6 punched one in the face.
22:35 BingoBoingo Anyways, lesson from the story is get terminal in small town with excellent Catholic hospital and have the good luck to die before discharge.
22:35 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: y'sure you aren't operating with pre-2001 prices ?
22:35 mircea_popescu http://chicago.peninsula.com/en/room-types/grand-deluxe-room
22:35 mircea_popescu i just got a bunch, so you happen to have hit hot cache.
22:36 mircea_popescu 500sqft being larger than about half of the "apartments" "engineers" dwell in, at that.
22:36 asciilifeform lol , mircea_popescu on expedition to 'windy city' ?!
22:36 BingoBoingo mod6: The hospital did have the alarms, but they were SILENT in the patient room for sanity promotion reasons.
22:36 mircea_popescu not personally.
22:37 mod6 BingoBoingo: see, now that makes some sense.
22:37 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i liked 'palmer house', ~same rate. gilded age relic.
22:38 mod6 Ladies and Gentlemen, I just don't know. Mr. Popescu has it, we were lucky. And it feels like such a shitty, actually, horrible way to have to feel about such a damn tragedy.
22:38 mircea_popescu i will note that chicago is terrible market, badly developed. las vegas is hugely oversupplied, you can get terrifying deals (if they know you)
22:39 mircea_popescu mod6 i can see what you mean.
22:39 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you can always 'get terrifying deals if they know you', even from penguins in antarctica.
22:39 mircea_popescu there is also that.
22:40 BingoBoingo Also hospital had morning and evening visits with physical and occupational therapists. Patriarch managed to get back to walking ~100 ish feet. First day at nursing facility somehow collarbone was broken and no narcotics were administered for days because "bad for recovery". Yes narcotics are bad for recovery generally, but also 91 years old is 91 years old and entire right side brain ischemia is entire right side brain ischemia.
22:40 mircea_popescu tsk
22:40 mircea_popescu that's pretty terrible.
22:41 asciilifeform mod6: 1 day of wasting away in cheapo hospital costs 5k, and y'know why? it's so that the lizards can get your house, supposing you owned one.
22:41 BingoBoingo Anyways the nursing profession's ineptitude was enabled by the unhealthy relationship my mom's sister has with human mortality
22:41 mod6 asciilifeform: oh, it's certainly an unspoken truth
22:42 mod6 BingoBoingo: sorry. yeah, that sounds awful.
22:42 mircea_popescu "nursing profession" much like the various other "social science" experts, social workers etc are about as qualified as their weight in earthworms.
22:42 mod6 you know the damnable misery of the whole thing? i woudln't have let my dog go through the same suffering.
22:43 mircea_popescu kinda the problem with all the makework positions, "teachers", "daycare specialists" and on it goes.
22:43 mircea_popescu mod6 no, i think they're on top of that. pretty sure i saw pet hospice advertised.
22:43 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> "nursing profession" much like the various other "social science" experts, social workers etc are about as qualified as their weight in earthworms. << it was the social workers that were the ones who raised questions on us, after countless conversations about post-hospital care.
22:44 mod6 these people will not go unaccounted for.
22:44 mircea_popescu there's basically this large-is (~14%) subset of population with no certain skillset and vastly inflated impression of self-importance.
22:44 BingoBoingo <mircea_popescu> kinda the problem with all the makework positions, "teachers", "daycare specialists" and on it goes. << If the "makework" doesn't include lift and move materials as needed for paying customers it's more welfare
22:44 mod6 mircea_popescu: anyway, as far as dog, 100 years ago; your dog got cancer? you take it out and shoot the poor thing.
22:45 mod6 same with horse, etc.
22:45 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo it is, the problem with it is that 10% or less of the payola is paid out as bezzle usd ; the remaineder 90% or more is paid out as pats on the back, empty and baseless congratulatory verbiage and generally speaking psychotronic noise.
22:46 mircea_popescu average "social worker" makes 500k a year, of which 35k paid in cash and 465k worth of ass blowing.
22:46 mircea_popescu teacher makes like a million (27k in cash or w/e it was)
22:46 BingoBoingo Around here teacher makes about 45k-120k
22:47 BingoBoingo before ass blowing
22:47 mircea_popescu what, 10k a month ? when the fuck did that happen
22:47 mod6 ugh, the social worker cretins.
22:47 mod6 actually, so 7 were horrible. one helped me get my mom into the charity hospice.
22:48 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: When the teachers stopped retiring because muh pension and the union "length of service" raises kept happening
22:48 mod6 but not until i basically lost my marbles about the whole thing.
22:48 mircea_popescu ahaha holy shit look at that, avg illinois suburban teacher made 80k
22:48 mod6 a nurse was browbeating me about a bunch of shit... and then I just went off the deep end.
22:48 mircea_popescu dude, and srsly the inflation is single digit ?
22:49 mod6 80k
22:49 mircea_popescu mod6 this isn't your way of telling us you got six dead hookers in your shed is it ?
22:49 mod6 wtf is happening.
22:49 trinque mod6: every narcissistic whore I ever knew in highschool went into nursing school, just about
22:49 mircea_popescu trinque better than beautician, neh. + she loves children.
22:50 mod6 mircea_popescu: lol, no. i did't have to hurt anybody or anything. i just lost my cool.
22:50 BingoBoingo 80k is mostly inflated by Chicago where the cost of living is in line with the rest of the state but for some reason state employees generally get 10-20k a year more for "cost of living"
22:50 mod6 i stayed pretty pro throughout the entire affair, actually.
22:50 mod6 that was the only time that I needed to give someone a piece of my mind.
22:50 mod6 strangely, it was effective. typically, you start barking shit at someone and you dig your own grave.
22:51 BingoBoingo $400/mo apartment is possible in City of Chicago, then not really again until you go to the south pole of Illinois
22:52 mod6 trinque: werd. and from what I can tell, because of the nursing unions etc, they basically run the place now.
22:52 mod6 doctors are there, but nurses run the show.
22:52 shinohai Dammit, I know I got my nursing degree in here somewhere: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-YmRkuWsAAjlXF.jpg
22:53 mircea_popescu and in future nurses, did we do https://68.media.tumblr.com/603b50d8351a3ff3b54e4f4ffdc8c702/tumblr_n8nbfqqovl1spdf5ao1_1280.jpg already ?
22:53 mod6 lol
22:53 mod6 Anyway, thanks for being an ear.
22:53 shinohai An entire triage unit!
22:54 mircea_popescu there;s a joke in there
22:54 mircea_popescu anyway, fancy this wonder, avg chicago schoolteacher makes more than jack warner averaged over his career.
22:55 mircea_popescu BUT THERE HAS BEEN NO INFLATION!!!
22:55 mod6 today i bought lunch for me & perf lady today. $22.50.
22:56 mod6 that's nearly 50 cheeseburgers in 1992 dollars.
22:57 mod6 ok, not 50. 37.5. my bad (@0.60 each)
22:58 mircea_popescu where was that pic
22:58 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/ciggs-60cents.jpg
22:59 mod6 ah yah, Mitch!
23:00 mircea_popescu that was a pretty great film, actually.
23:01 mod6 yah, nb.
23:02 mod6 So, anyway, back to business here..
23:02 mod6 I've been meaning all month to get to do some ticket reorg for trb. I'm still going to try to it this week here.
23:03 mod6 I appreciate TMSR's patience while I dealt with these other irl things.
23:03 mod6 Wasn't a total loss this month being able to do some FG testing and eatblock testing.
23:18 BingoBoingo testing is work
23:18 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/04/trump-unveils-plans-for-massive-tax-cut-benefiting-the-working-poor-in-us/ << Qntra - Trump Unveils Plans For Massive Tax Cut Benefiting The Working Poor In US
23:21 mod6 BingoBoingo: werd. 'tis useful anyway.
23:21 mod6 this morning's convo re profiling brings up some good points.
23:26 mod6 was wondering what we might do about such things with Ada or trbi
23:26 mircea_popescu well ideally we won't need so much jungle profiling with properly written code.
23:27 mod6 that's fair.
23:27 asciilifeform ^
23:27 mod6 me and this lady wrote this performance framework to put this app under load and do simulations etc.
23:28 mod6 was considering something of the same. but maybe it's not nearly as hard to get trbi or whatever we have under load; just hook it up, see what happens.
23:31 mod6 will cross that bridge when we get to it. many other bridges ahead of it anyway.
23:32 asciilifeform properly-written proggy is worth > 1001yrs of debuggery.
23:33 mod6 incomplete/buggy app isn't even worth performance testing anyway.
23:33 asciilifeform e.g. i got bignumatron core down to ~500ln, and this is without any 'cleverness' or 'idiomatic' liquishit.
23:35 mod6 that's super exciting. trying to do pre-optimizations of code rarely works out well. just keep it simple, and if any optimizations are required, made later.
23:36 mod6 i think there's a knuth quote somewhere about know where the 3% of the code is that is performance-significant 'optimize that, not everything'.
23:36 mod6 (paraphrasing here)
23:37 mod6 "We should forget about small efficiencies, say about 97% of the time: premature optimization is the root of all evil. Yet we should not pass up our opportunities in that critical 3%"
23:37 asciilifeform the unspoken corollary, is that sometimes there is ~no~ speed-critical component. at which point you can optimize for something else entirely.
23:37 asciilifeform in this case, correctness & fits-in-head.
23:38 mod6 yeah. this is pretty landmark stuff here alf.
23:40 asciilifeform it'll make sense when you read the code.
23:40 asciilifeform ( sorta whole point... )
23:43 asciilifeform in other lulz, http://www.oregonlive.com/rosefest/index.ssf/2017/04/organizers_cancel_82nd_avenue.html >> '"You have seen how much power we have downtown and that the police cannot stop us from shutting down roads so please consider your decision wisely," the anonymous email said, telling organizers they could cancel the Republican group's registration or else face action from protesters. "This is non-negotiable."'
23:44 asciilifeform ben_vulpes ^
23:49 trinque this fits my pet caricature of the antifa folks just fine.
23:49 trinque behold, mother, we have... disrupted part of a parade about flowers or something.
23:50 trinque far cry from that guy's "the left is willing to crack heads, unlike the right"
23:51 trinque the narcissism prevents them or anyone else on teh continent from organized behavior
23:55 mod6 "everyone must share our opinion! 2+2=5!"
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