Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2017-01-12 | 2017-01-14 → ↓
00:26 mircea_popescu yeh
00:27 mircea_popescu !~google salina turda
00:27 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Salina Turda - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salina_Turda>; Salina Turda Salt Mine: <http://salinaturda.eu/%3Flang%3Den>; Salina Turda amusement park in Romania - Business Insider: <http://www.businessinsider.com/salina-turda-amusement-park-in-romania-2015-7>
~ 2 hours 28 minutes ~
02:56 davout in other false pope news http://yournewswire.com/pope-francis-global-central-bank/
02:56 davout sorry, antipope
~ 3 hours 33 minutes ~
06:29 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-13#1602076 << tyvm!
06:29 a111 Logged on 2017-01-13 00:12 pete_dushenski: Framedragger: no worries, it's updated.
~ 1 hours 19 minutes ~
07:49 mircea_popescu nooow then, let's continue with this lisp thingee.
~ 1 hours 2 minutes ~
08:52 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E7AD433551E8685B6C4269A2AA6E66E19F80FB175F3F0A4DE9756009B0D8166F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1673...8977 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '77.245.149.177 (ssh-rsa key from 77.245.149.177 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host177.b6.trdns.com. TR)
08:52 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/E7AD433551E8685B6C4269A2AA6E66E19F80FB175F3F0A4DE9756009B0D8166F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1509...9469 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '77.245.149.177 (ssh-rsa key from 77.245.149.177 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host177.b6.trdns.com. TR)
08:57 mircea_popescu i guess they're mostly going to be double bangs from now on huh.
09:00 mircea_popescu !~calc 30!
09:01 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: 30! = 2.652528598121911E32
09:01 mircea_popescu !~calc 16!
09:01 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: 16! = 20922789888000
09:01 mircea_popescu !~calc 8!
09:01 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: 8! = 40320
09:02 mircea_popescu !~calc 20!
09:02 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: 20! = 2432902008176640000
~ 1 hours 19 minutes ~
10:21 asciilifeform in other lulz -- https://archive.is/WxWgs << run moar weirdo closed chats
10:25 mircea_popescu digging through the logs to find a point of reference for " phf that actually goes back to a thread long time ago" i found http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-09#1320422 instead. how did the proposed solution work out for you phf ?
10:25 a111 Logged on 2015-11-09 04:39 phf: which brings me to the point that i have folders for all but "make new hardware" item in that list of b-a scope in various states of disarray, and it would be great if there was some prioritization, like it was the case with eulora "oh we need this done, you do it".
10:25 mircea_popescu and otherwise, anyone recall the link to the big array/list discussion cuz i can't fucking find it
~ 56 minutes ~
11:21 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-02#1444246 ?
11:21 a111 Logged on 2016-04-02 01:12 phf: Nah, universally. A significant property of arrays shared across languages is that they give you some guarantees about access time, space utilization
11:21 mircea_popescu lessee
11:22 mircea_popescu very much.
11:22 mircea_popescu ty. howdja get it ?
11:22 asciilifeform it was memorable
11:22 asciilifeform because compact, correct description of 'what is array'
11:22 mircea_popescu nice. wanted to re=read it anyway.
11:23 * mircea_popescu is preparing lisp mega-article. only 30k words or so.
11:24 asciilifeform http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3236870273259433@naggum.net.html << possibly related, re the 'resources' thing
11:24 asciilifeform 'Common Lisp is a big-city language. Spit out the hayseed, pronounce "shit" with one syllable and "shotgun" with two. You're not in Kansas, anymore. C is the language of the poor farmer village where the allocation of every seed and livestock matters, where taxes are low and public service non-existent.'
11:26 asciilifeform ^ actually a discussion of cl strings!
11:35 mircea_popescu this makes me loathe lisp and prefer c.
11:35 mircea_popescu there is no future, for the record, for the "big city" understood as rules of pronounciation, high taxes and "public services".
11:36 asciilifeform this goes back to the 'tallest tower' thread.
11:36 mircea_popescu much like his "car going off road is bad mkay" made my skin crawl. why the fuck would i ALWAYS go anywhere there's a road, what am i, too young to grow a beard ?
11:36 mircea_popescu asciilifeform there is NO RELATION between civilisation and impotence.
11:37 asciilifeform why does 'city with paved roads and indoor plumbing' necessarily equate to 'impotence' ?
11:37 mircea_popescu phf for instance, is shockingly delicate, specifically because he's more from russia than you. and the japanese folk, ESPECIALLY back in the days when misspeaking to samurai == beheading, were remarkably delicate also.
11:37 asciilifeform i must've missed one hell of a thread. where, e.g., phf was 'delicate'..?
11:37 mircea_popescu so no, civilisation doth exist irrespective of "follow the road and wear breeches"
11:38 mircea_popescu it doesn't shock you, the man's delicacy ?
11:38 asciilifeform are we talking of same d00d? because the phf i recall sleeps in a tent, in arizona desert, surrounded by 48 virgins
11:38 asciilifeform or what was it.
11:39 mircea_popescu i meant in demeanor.
11:39 asciilifeform dunno, maybe he sat in kresty, and just weighs words veeery carefully.
11:39 mircea_popescu which is the point, somewhat.
11:39 mircea_popescu "big city" is very specifically NOT the big city where naggum dreamed to move, as depicted in sex and the city.
11:40 asciilifeform actually from my reading naggum's 'city' is simply 'place where the mains sockets work, the roads are smooth, and vehicle can be mercedes and not necessarily mule'
11:40 mircea_popescu big city as in, new orleans, with low taxes and slaves. not as in new york, with high taxes, "public services" and "pronounce words this way"
11:40 mircea_popescu this is a generous read to the point of wishful thinking, i suspect.
11:41 asciilifeform 'public service' does not necessarily mean 'communist', just means that it is available to folks within the walls. can have price of admission, as in medieval germany, it is not specified how 'public road' is paid for.
11:41 mircea_popescu but in any case there's absolutely no progre monopoly on civilisation. on the contrary.
11:41 asciilifeform naggum, for instance, used payware lisptrons that cost megabux.
11:41 mircea_popescu asciilifeform define "public service" if you will ?
11:41 asciilifeform 'available ad libitum to those within the walls'
11:42 mircea_popescu naggum evidently intends restrictions as to shape AND USAGE. this you don't see because you opt to, but in his world, as constructed from his words, it is legitimate for someone to come and tell you "this isn't a proper use of the public service", and it is illegitimate for you to retort "tough"
11:43 asciilifeform it so happens that i read all of the material from the naggum archive. and apparently d00d lived in oslo, a very strongly socialist hellhole, and hated it for all of the right reasons.
11:43 asciilifeform (tax on auto, for instance, was 100k usd iirc)
11:43 mircea_popescu ironically, i'd make the auto tax 100x yearly average income.
11:47 asciilifeform the lulzy bit is that places like oslo, bangkok, etc. with draconian auto tax, still have jams.
11:47 asciilifeform just not of car.
11:49 mircea_popescu i have a solution for that, too! http://trilema.com/2016/an-immodest-proposal/
11:55 deedbot http://www.contravex.com/2017/01/13/mothers-and-fathers/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Mothers and fathers.
12:06 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B216777E530792039BCD01CA8DB5D3834CAF576E9FCA906E9DB886AEF9CD7851 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1514...3553 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '88.200.63.156 (ssh-rsa key from 88.200.63.156 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown SI)
12:06 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B216777E530792039BCD01CA8DB5D3834CAF576E9FCA906E9DB886AEF9CD7851 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1639...7709 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '88.200.63.156 (ssh-rsa key from 88.200.63.156 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown SI)
~ 40 minutes ~
12:46 thestringpuller !~seen jurov
12:46 jhvh1 thestringpuller: jurov was last seen in #trilema 23 hours, 23 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <jurov> http://www.livescience.com/57461-army-wants-biodegradable-bullets.html << reality can outdo both onion and qntra
~ 34 minutes ~
13:21 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/my-three-days-of-ai/ << Trilema - My three days of AI
13:25 mircea_popescu speaking of which : ben_vulpes would you join candi here and set everyone in l1 to its eat list ? i deem you've satisfied contractual obligations re support ; if you'll be kind enough to bring it back within a day or two should it get knocked off that's entirely fine by my lights. and everyone else : have fun with the lisp repl, but don't abuse.
~ 46 minutes ~
14:12 BingoBoingo In old news, bear food riot http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL22583868
~ 54 minutes ~
15:06 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/01/womens-march-alienating-white-women-with-platform/ << Qntra - "Women's March" Alienating White Women With Platform
15:08 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: you have a key for her?
15:08 ben_vulpes !!up candi_lustt
15:08 deedbot candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.
15:08 candi_lustt ben_vulpes: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/KON9K/?raw=true
15:08 candi_lustt deedbot: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/i4aUD/?raw=true
15:08 ben_vulpes cool
15:08 ben_vulpes (+ 1 1)
15:09 ben_vulpes (say "hi")
15:09 phf (progn *users*)
15:09 candi_lustt ("asciilifeform" "ben_vulpes" "bingoboingo" "danielpbarron" "davout" "diana_coman" "hanbot" "jurov" "mike_c" "mircea_popescu" "mod6" "phf" "trinque")
15:10 candi_lustt i'm alive
15:13 ben_vulpes candi_lustt http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/yXCkU/?raw=true eat
15:13 candi_lustt ben_vulpes: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/v147r/?raw=true
15:13 ben_vulpes (+ 1 1)
15:13 candi_lustt 2
15:13 ben_vulpes (paste "butts")
15:13 candi_lustt error: #<undefined-function paste {10070D62E3}>
15:13 ben_vulpes (mpbot:paste "butts")
15:13 candi_lustt error: #<sb-int:simple-reader-package-error "The symbol ~S is not external in the ~A package." {10070E98E3}>
↖
15:13 ben_vulpes (mpbot::paste "butts")
15:14 candi_lustt "http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ToMuj/?raw=true"
15:14 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: you have a key for her?
15:16 ben_vulpes (mpbot:paste "butts")
15:16 candi_lustt error: The symbol "PASTE" is not external in the MPBOT package.Line: 1, Column: 72, File-Position: 72Stream: #<sb-impl::string-input-stream {10071B3B53}>
15:17 ben_vulpes betta
15:18 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: many of your parens escapes did not work in ai post
15:18 trinque ben_vulpes: if you princ that error iirc it wont fart out the format string
15:19 ben_vulpes also http://trilema.com/2017/my-three-days-of-ai/#selection-3947.0-4087.77 would be worth preserving whitespace in to make the point
15:19 ben_vulpes (mpbot:paste "butts")
15:19 candi_lustt The symbol "PASTE" is not external in the MPBOT package.Line: 1, Column: 72, File-Position: 72Stream: #<sb-impl::string-input-stream {1007504E23}>
15:19 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-13#1602256 <<
15:19 a111 Logged on 2017-01-13 20:13 candi_lustt: error: #<sb-int:simple-reader-package-error "The symbol ~S is not external in the ~A package." {10070E98E3}>
15:19 phf (mpbot::paste "butts")
15:20 ben_vulpes deeeeebugger
15:20 ben_vulpes heap exhausted game over
15:20 trinque heap inflation pls
15:21 phf oh somebody mentioned candi_lustt in a message, i think a111, and that triggered mp's code, which in turn has some exciting exponential properties
15:21 ben_vulpes aok
15:22 ben_vulpes > exciting
↖
15:22 ben_vulpes so i guess in five minutes or so i'll restart her when freenode wakes up to the dead socket?
15:23 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2017/my-three-days-of-ai/#identifier_10_71072 << busted
15:29 ben_vulpes standby 2
~ 15 minutes ~
15:44 asciilifeform in re shannonizer lulz, http://www.onthelambda.com/2014/02/20/how-to-fake-a-sophisticated-knowledge-of-wine-with-markov-chains/
15:46 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/01/under-pressure-domestic-margin-trading-at-chinese-fiatbitcoin-interfaces-folding/ << Qntra - Under Pressure Domestic Margin Trading At Chinese fiat/Bitcoin Interfaces Folding
~ 26 minutes ~
16:12 ben_vulpes !!up candi_lustt
16:12 deedbot candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.
16:12 candi_lustt ben_vulpes: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/P87lX/?raw=true
16:12 candi_lustt deedbot: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/TZkq1/?raw=true
16:12 ben_vulpes (+ 1 1)
16:12 candi_lustt 2
16:14 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes i was thinking she gets upt in half hour intervals
16:14 mircea_popescu no good ?
16:16 ben_vulpes your call really
16:16 ben_vulpes anyone with eval permissions could register the nick, so may as well do it yourself.
16:16 mircea_popescu sluts gonna slut.
16:17 mircea_popescu fixed footnote. lisp dun mix well with the footnote system
16:18 ben_vulpes you're telling me
16:18 asciilifeform iirc i recently tried to mix something entirely else with it, and also got barf
16:18 asciilifeform it was... less-than sign ?
16:19 mircea_popescu asciilifeform comments don't allow < semantically because it's the start of a html tag ; articles have problems parsing (( and )) because it's footnote convention
16:21 asciilifeform aah
16:22 mircea_popescu could set the footnote to arbitrary anything, but meh. and i see no good way out of the comment thing, because it ~is~ stuck parsing the comment.
16:22 asciilifeform mp-wp supports footnotes ~in comments~ ?!
16:32 mircea_popescu nah.
16:32 mircea_popescu though it prolly should huh.
16:32 asciilifeform !~later tell BingoBoingo what the hell does one use to get gap-sealing foam off skin ? my hands look like 'advance leprousy' after two dozen washes with 4+ solvents..
16:32 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
16:33 mircea_popescu ahahaha
16:36 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Has it cured yet?
16:36 asciilifeform of course!
16:36 BingoBoingo And why weren't you using nitrile gloves?!
16:36 asciilifeform and with liberal admixture of dirt and insects
16:37 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: didn't feel like climbing down from ladder to get'em.
16:37 BingoBoingo Well, sandpaper works
16:38 BingoBoingo acetone sometimes works on hard surfaces...
16:38 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: yeah, got most of it off with wet sand, still remains the conformal crud.
16:38 asciilifeform acetone failed.
16:38 BingoBoingo Aha, you've got a rather solid cure then
16:38 asciilifeform very solid, a++++
16:38 BingoBoingo Well pretty much limited to mechanical removal nao
16:39 BingoBoingo Wait 24 hours
16:39 BingoBoingo then try lava soap
16:40 mircea_popescu asciilifeform just wait. your skin exfoliates naturally, they will come off.
16:40 mircea_popescu WAY better than giving yourself contact dermatitis.
16:40 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: well noshit. is what i normally do.
16:40 mircea_popescu there is ~no good chem solution for your problem as it is.
16:40 asciilifeform q was about 'exists faster method?'
16:40 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i am currently satisfied that this is so.
16:41 mircea_popescu carbon sulfide, which is carcinogenic.
16:41 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: and funnily enough, first thing i did was (knockoff) lava soap.
16:41 asciilifeform i keep it in the work room.
16:41 BingoBoingo Anyways pumice and time
16:41 asciilifeform (there is no running water there and so it is the only wash..)
16:41 candi_lustt The variable is is unbound.
16:41 asciilifeform lol! how did ^ happen
16:41 BingoBoingo if still tacky you can cover foamskin with powder
16:41 asciilifeform parentheses ??
16:41 asciilifeform ( )
16:41 candi_lustt nil
16:41 asciilifeform lol
16:41 mircea_popescu aw fuck
16:42 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes can it only retort if its name is on the line ? otherwise this will become problematic
16:43 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: it needs to be fed your brain
16:43 ben_vulpes !!up candi_lustt
16:43 deedbot candi_lustt voiced for 30 minutes.
16:43 candi_lustt ben_vulpes: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kQeDo/?raw=true
16:43 candi_lustt deedbot: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/3IAka/?raw=true
16:43 ben_vulpes ^^
16:43 ben_vulpes if you want a default that'll persist over reboots so she does at least something, i can jam that in there
16:44 mircea_popescu candi_lustt eat http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/jO4Hu/?raw=true
16:44 candi_lustt mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/PSAht/?raw=true
16:44 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes i don't want her to do anything specifically, but she also can't answer to a single-open-parens control sequence
16:44 mircea_popescu i guess can have !( for it and you wipe ! ?
16:45 ben_vulpes foo(+ 1)
16:45 ben_vulpes can't the lords be trusted to shut her up when they're done playing?
16:45 mircea_popescu (+ 1 "no good")
16:45 candi_lustt The value "no good" is not of type number
16:46 asciilifeform why not have the thing answer to its own name strictly
16:46 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes iffy, too promisetronic will cause a bunch of hurt fingers.
16:46 mircea_popescu yeah.
16:46 asciilifeform then no need to switch it on/off, other than for maintenance
16:46 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes the idea is for this to be a toy-level learn-lisp item ; can't add a "AND IF YOU DO ARCANE THING YOU DIE" coda.
16:46 ben_vulpes hehk
16:48 ben_vulpes !( , yes?
16:49 ben_vulpes if we wanted to be cute it could be ,(
16:49 mircea_popescu sure.
16:49 mircea_popescu nah, stick to !
16:49 ben_vulpes k
16:49 phf asciilifeform: there are two incompatible eating methods, "eat" function and the ^( mode. i added the latter for my own convenience, because number of times i want to type a sexp is way higher than a literate string that opens with paren. obviously doesn't scale to a channel full of people, who have much less need for a repl bot
16:50 asciilifeform phf et al : i still don't get why not simply candi_lustt (+ 2 2)
16:50 candi_lustt asciilifeform: error, see: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/BwzNj/?raw=true
16:50 asciilifeform lel
16:50 mircea_popescu phf if usage goes wai up we'll figure something out.
16:50 mircea_popescu so far mostly trying to tease out practical utility.
16:51 mircea_popescu both wanting a clean channel and wanting a repl bot are legitimate wants, neither necessarily has to yield to the other, we see how it goeth.
16:52 phf asciilifeform: just look at the chainstate log. that's how it was. but on one hand it became impractical to prefix every time. and the other reason is that c*ndi_lustt is not a repl bot by original design. "BRAIN" function supposed to take arbitrary text, and process it. in order to actually get to repl you have to use "c*ndi_lustt eat <url>"
16:53 mircea_popescu aha.
16:53 ben_vulpes !(princ "done")
16:53 candi_lustt "done"
16:53 asciilifeform ! ((lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))) (quote (lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x)))))
16:54 mircea_popescu (+ 2 2)
16:54 asciilifeform !((lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))) (quote (lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x)))))
16:54 candi_lustt ((lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x))) (quote (lambda (x) (list x (list (quote quote) x)))))
16:54 mircea_popescu !(+ 2 2)
16:54 candi_lustt 4
16:54 mircea_popescu ! (+ 2 2)
16:54 mircea_popescu ((+ 2 2))
16:54 mircea_popescu call it good.
16:54 ben_vulpes pls no more fuzzing
16:54 mircea_popescu lol poor vulpes.
16:55 mircea_popescu didja have fun ?
16:55 phf !(loop for i from 1 to 1000 collect i)
16:55 candi_lustt (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 ...)
16:55 ben_vulpes the fun parts were fun, i learned rather a lot, i have a deeper hate of irc than i did a week ago...
16:56 mircea_popescu phf if you feel like it, you can do a weekly lisp class by appointment, look in the log when there's usually holes and intersect with your schedule and there you go.
16:56 mircea_popescu "weds 14:00 to 16:00, phf's lisp class".
16:56 ben_vulpes you only need a phf to teach noobs if the noob is you
16:56 mircea_popescu heh.
16:57 mircea_popescu you laugh ben_vulpes , but consider that a 15yo mp, much more imperious, much less sexually and otherwise pacified, had to go to school. PUBLIC school.
16:58 asciilifeform didn't mircea_popescu only show up for exam day or the like
16:58 mircea_popescu i showed up for ~40% of classes. which was about the most either me or the system could carry.
16:58 phf that's not a bad idea
16:58 mircea_popescu but the teachers were still petrified.
17:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: imho at some point we oughta pick up again the 'big city' thread, because the engineering tradeoffs of, e.g., gc, (esp. on hardware that does 0 to help) are very real.
17:00 mircea_popescu go right ahead.
17:01 asciilifeform it isn't even a subj particular to lisp.
17:01 mircea_popescu certainly not.
17:01 asciilifeform imho best thread re same was the 'unix vs msdos' one
17:02 asciilifeform where, yes you can run >1 proggy on 1 box, but there are very real costs.
17:02 asciilifeform they dun get to talk to the iron directly, etc.
17:02 mircea_popescu how's this relate to imperial vs republican big city ?
17:02 asciilifeform well that's what i'd like to study from mircea_popescu .
17:03 asciilifeform because 'republican city' is not a subj i am deeply familiar with.
17:03 asciilifeform i only know 2 types of city -- today's, and stereotypical-medieval
17:03 asciilifeform in the latter, you dump shit out of window, and rivers of piss fill the streets
17:04 mircea_popescu it's not clear to me that any engineering issues are in fact involved. all i see are purely psychogenic issues improperly welded to the foregoing. you don't need nor can have any meaningful implementation of "public servicves", not ever. getting oneself to believe the contrary is a strange exercise in contorsionism
17:04 asciilifeform what's the sewer then
17:04 asciilifeform or the water.
17:04 mircea_popescu there are known from history many numerous models of cities.
17:04 asciilifeform will tell me that rome's aqueduct was not 'public service' ? is 'public service' only idiot traffic cop ?
17:04 mircea_popescu asciilifeform when i had you define "public good" you said "endlessly abundant item". this is nonsense, nothing is endlessly abundant.
17:05 asciilifeform when'd i say 'endless'
17:05 asciilifeform said 'ad libitum', i.e. not individually+transactionally dispensed
17:05 mircea_popescu <asciilifeform> 'available ad libitum to those within the walls' << this means there's an infinite supply.
17:05 asciilifeform only if you have a miniature black hole, with endless appetite, in your city.
17:06 mircea_popescu this is a fiction, which may be convenient for personal reasons. but nothing is like this. note above : we have an infinity of chatlines, literally, avaailable each day. nevertheless, the bot is vaguely constrained.
17:06 mircea_popescu "if it looks like it's running out, we'll do something about it."
17:06 asciilifeform we do not however have an infinite of brain cycles. hence banishments of low snr folk etc
17:06 mircea_popescu ie, not qs.
17:06 mircea_popescu yes. nothing can be qs, not in this world, which is why your definition of "public good" is not a definition.
17:07 mircea_popescu (qs i will remind stands for quantum sufficit, or else satiem. satiem is the word that gave sated. the presumption here, etymologically-amusing as it is, is that something can be qs only if there's no "black hole" of appetite. mmkay.)
17:08 mircea_popescu this is also how banking works, "you can have all the money you don't need you could wish -- but don't ask for money when you need it!"
17:08 asciilifeform qs is exactly what i was thinking! ty mircea_popescu
17:08 mircea_popescu asciilifeform used to be written on medicine bottles. back before medicine became rationalized.
17:08 asciilifeform and yes it is a somewhat promisetronic thing. no need even to go as far as bank. go an' see what happens if you want 1000 amps from your mains connection.
17:08 asciilifeform on short notice.
17:09 mircea_popescu ok so then. stop using strings for concepts. what do you mean by "public good" ?
17:10 asciilifeform perhaps: item that is impractical to withhold from freeloaders, but nevertheless must be paid for.
17:11 mircea_popescu ie, bullets ?
17:11 asciilifeform in the sense of 'bullets will fly but whether you paid determines the direction' ?
17:11 asciilifeform not quite what i had in mind, no.
17:11 mircea_popescu no, in the sense it's impractical to not shoot them, but still the bullet is produced.
17:12 asciilifeform this is somewhat arcane and my gas mask is clogged, can haz expanded ver plz.
17:12 * mircea_popescu looks at kresty prison overhead pic, notices that building set on its right is painted in international color of courthouse. mmkay.
17:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i was just observing shooting is a public good by your definition. not practical to keep it from freeloaders, still has a cost.
17:14 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: shooting thieves in the street, or rabid weasels, etc. definitely 'public good' -- they remain dead for all the misers who hadn't paid for exterminator service aha
17:14 mircea_popescu i was thinking more in the lines of, shooting obama. puts him out of his misery of pretending like he's a person.
17:14 mircea_popescu going to all that trouble etc.
17:14 asciilifeform any rabid weasel works equally well for this one.
17:14 asciilifeform large, small.
17:15 mircea_popescu yes, except the rabid weasel does not seem to WANT this public good.
17:15 asciilifeform noshit.
17:15 asciilifeform if shit could talk, it probably would not want to be flushed either.
17:15 mircea_popescu which is somewhat counterintuitive. so i was examining if you're going to stick with the definition or redefine in face of it.
17:15 asciilifeform it doesn't strike me as counterintuitive at all, is actually the exact thing i was thinking of.
17:16 asciilifeform clean street, or dead politicians, etc. remain 'working' for the nonpaying folx.
17:16 mircea_popescu yes, but what does it mean "it's not practical to withhold" ?
17:16 asciilifeform well you can't , afaik, set up world where the payers get to live obummer-free but the cheapskates get another 8 yrs of him.
17:16 mircea_popescu (i beg forgiveness if i just snap yoru words to classical discourse on the topic, it's for the greater good)
17:16 mircea_popescu asciilifeform why not ? split up.
17:17 asciilifeform if you can properly and surgically cut it, and sell piecemeal, then it is not 'public good' but normal workaday commercial good.
17:17 * mircea_popescu would pay to see in practice the equivalent of salic electoral law, considering how lulzily salic inheritance worked irl. enough of this angevin bs. you vote in electiosn, then each side gets half the country. and so going each 4 years.
17:17 mircea_popescu soon enough, 1024 countries of manageable size.
17:18 asciilifeform sorta like how monkey troopy divvy up the jungle, neh
17:18 asciilifeform iirc africa presently works like this.
17:18 mircea_popescu more or less yea
17:18 asciilifeform and sooner or later the other africa also will.
17:18 asciilifeform just -- not yet.
17:18 mircea_popescu in the absence of a forum, it's the only workable way.
17:18 mircea_popescu which brings the problem back home : most of the problems you discuss have a huge language externality.
17:19 asciilifeform forum! another publicgood.
17:19 mircea_popescu take fucking. the women are pregnant for all, irrespective how many fuck them.
17:19 mircea_popescu yet somehow THIS particular public good is never too problematic
17:19 asciilifeform sunlight is ~the~ good but also not problematic, because it dun give a fuck whether anyone asked for it or not, and there is no credit card slot to pay into for it.
17:20 asciilifeform just as you also do not have to pay for arithmetic to work.
17:20 mircea_popescu but in point of fact, whether mp alone is repsonsible for half us live births this year, like it works in africa / oceania ; or not -- live births there will be.
17:20 asciilifeform so these are not 'public goods' as contemplated here.
17:20 mircea_popescu well... you will need a new definition then
17:20 asciilifeform why?
17:20 asciilifeform i did mention 'but still has to be paid for'
17:20 mircea_popescu what do you mean why. because you want to exclude items that match it.
17:21 mircea_popescu fucking is paid for.
17:21 mircea_popescu and depends how you define "paid for", sun may also be.
17:21 asciilifeform if it will happen just the same if not paid for , then does not match condition 'must be paid for'
17:21 mircea_popescu the price for its light is a definite limit in time ; it will eventually grow hot.
17:21 mircea_popescu asciilifeform seems dubious.
17:26 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-13#1602276 << lol. they're FACTORIAL not exponential. plox to be serious here, no exp can match this.
17:26 a111 Logged on 2017-01-13 20:22 ben_vulpes: > exciting
17:26 mircea_popescu as good a statement as any re why moore law can't ever produce ai.
17:27 asciilifeform ^ doesn't seem like a notion in particularly dire need of disproof tho. just as 'why bricks cannot birth rats'
17:27 mircea_popescu yes. but i think it's very informative to examine it from angles.
17:31 asciilifeform ( re 'public good', the removal of the 'great stink' from 1850s london, by the construction of the -- very costly -- sewer system, finest at the time in the world, is imho instructive. they DID first try every possible method of 'eliminate the problem strictly for mircea_popescu !' -- parliament soaked curtains in lime, folx walked around with cloth masks, etc. but eventually queen barfed when sailing in pleasure boat, and that was t
17:31 asciilifeform he limit, apparently )
17:31 mircea_popescu london sewer was not by any means first in world ; but how do you distinguish between the l1 of london building sewer and ben_vulpes making me slut bot ?
17:32 asciilifeform def. not first!
17:32 asciilifeform rome -- 1st.
17:32 mircea_popescu "why didn;t they do it sooner!" "cuz they didn't feel like it!" "but why did they do it at all!" "cuz they felt like it!"
17:32 asciilifeform and iirc rome got one for ~same reason.
17:32 mircea_popescu ah finest. i read first soz.
~ 29 minutes ~
18:01 ben_vulpes wyrdmantis: that's three reconnects today, stoppit
18:16 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes http://cascadianhacker.com/rogue-one#comment-144 << sadly i have nfi who that is.
18:19 ben_vulpes star wars arcana
18:19 * asciilifeform somehow happened upon http://www.romanianwriters.ro/book.php?id=14
18:20 asciilifeform 'In one queue (assembled by the well known false alarm of “the meat lorry is coming,” which used to bring people out from all over the place, causing them scurry about like ants), my seventy‑five year‑old grandfather stood for twelve hours : on the street corner from six in the morning until six in the evening. When he got home, with an empty bag (that day, the lorry had not turned up), he started to feel unwell, leaned on th
18:20 asciilifeform e bed and collapsed. This former interbellic country gentleman – vineyard owner and horse breeder in the foothills of the Leaota Mountain, denounced by a friend, arrested and beaten by the Securitate in the time of Dej because he had hidden some “cockerels” – had now exhausted all his energy for the sake of a bit of meat on the bone. Later, struck down with sclerosis and bedridden with semi‑paralysis, he was to come round o
18:20 asciilifeform nce every few days, to ask the family he had once provided for : “Bread ? Is there bread ?”'
~ 20 minutes ~
18:40 asciilifeform elsewhere, http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7294 << shitlang lulz ( via jurov )
18:41 asciilifeform from comments, lulzgold, 'The Hivemind is fully committed to systemd for service management, Wayland for graphical display, and PulseAudio for audio, which is why it doesn’t matter if you personally find them distasteful, they will become the de facto standard. For systems programming, Rust looks increasingly like it will be the Hivemind’s choice to replace C, as it has the backing of the Mozilla organization, is being used for r
↖
18:41 asciilifeform eal work (the servo engine), and meets the necessary criteria of being a strongly-typed, non-GC’d, safe, bit-level language that supports generic programming.'
~ 26 minutes ~
19:07 * mircea_popescu tried to watch "her", which supposedly is a movie. it is not. it's a fucking "movie 2.0". it's like these contemptible imbeciles agreed everything in cinema must have rounded corners now. the same inept muzak, a dude on a cello or a piano or a single instrument going SINGLENOTE SINGLENOTE SINGLENOTE SINGLENOTE SINGLENOTE. this is now music.
19:08 mircea_popescu the same fucking BEIGE. everything gotta be beige, that's how you know it's the future. the same inept fucking "actors", the same literotica-level scripts, the same blergh.
19:08 mircea_popescu fucking drop dead already, bollywood's better by now.
19:09 asciilifeform watching glue dry is better nao.
19:09 mircea_popescu a decade ago this shit used to be a bad joke at best. now it's all the maga that's left.
19:10 mircea_popescu re the soros book : it's not terrible, there's a certain political bent to it but i expect you're immune. like how human doesn't catch most rat viral strains.
19:11 asciilifeform actually that was my primary interest in linked piece. ~which strain!~
19:11 mircea_popescu this is high arcana.
19:12 asciilifeform 'soros' half-gives it away
19:12 asciilifeform but i'd like to know how.
19:12 mircea_popescu not exactly ; there's a particular vein of competent orc being developed here.
19:13 mircea_popescu roughly speaking the gambit would be described as "knowledge is evil in that it bestows power, only through neutering the power element may it be rendered pure", something after this fashion.
19:14 asciilifeform nao i'm really curious. how, for instance, does one make, e.g., an arithmetic, with 'neutered power element' but still in some sense 'knowledge' ?
19:16 mircea_popescu well, it's complicated. and obviously nonsensical on the face of it, which is why it's being approached very gingerly. and also why the poster child of the whole movement, its sam altman if you will, is this ex physicist turned "philosopher".
19:16 mircea_popescu turned being the operative word.
19:16 mircea_popescu !#s patapievici
19:16 a111 1 result for "patapievici", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=patapievici
19:16 mircea_popescu im pretty sure i mentioned him before.
19:18 asciilifeform aha, the voice synth thread
19:18 mircea_popescu right, for sure ; possibly before.
19:19 mircea_popescu anyway, it's impossible to hide the albright from any of this. but then again they don't specifically aim to hide it from us, secure in the knowledge that the orcs it's addresses to entirely lack the receptors in the first place. which is true.
19:20 asciilifeform it has ~same flavour as various material intended for ru orc export in '90s and now, yes
19:20 mircea_popescu russian stuff was somewhat finer.
19:20 asciilifeform naaaah
19:20 mircea_popescu or maybe just i don't read it so well.
19:20 asciilifeform it was ~all 'gulag gulag gulag and oh hey didjaknow gulag?'
19:21 asciilifeform 'we, people of mcdonalds, blue jeans, and 'terminator', shall teach you, gulag monkeys, how to live'
19:22 mircea_popescu that's a different thing.
19:23 mircea_popescu i find it quite amusing that esr tried to do ~exactly what i just did, except with much more rudimentary tools and with much less interesting results. idiots living among idiots ALSO has a cost eh.
19:23 asciilifeform it is interesting, more so they made it for ~themselves~ than even for the orcs. you go to a 'hip' washington b00kstore, and 'russia' section, 100% gulag, with a few ivan iv.
19:23 asciilifeform and maybe 1 or 2 about peter and how he liked to chop heads.
19:23 mircea_popescu asciilifeform yes ; moreover i'm talking about a very specific "intellectual" thing. not in any sense intended for mass consumption. intended for perenity.
↖
19:24 asciilifeform oh, yes, not at all for 'masss', for mass -- 'terminator', 'star wars'.
19:25 mircea_popescu afaik it spawned actually straight out of the whole "hide caches of $stuff in yurp" programme.
19:25 asciilifeform (incidentally in ru net it is not uncommon to meet with derisive reference to american soldier, 'jedi')
19:25 asciilifeform gladio?!
19:25 mircea_popescu same resources, same offices even in places. same people, mostly.
19:25 asciilifeform lol!
19:25 asciilifeform and yes, brzezinski et al
19:25 mircea_popescu intelligladio.
19:26 mircea_popescu there's intelligentsia and intelliglantsia. both equally bankrupt pseudointellectual endeavours, although on superficial examination "opposite". therefore, lettuce teach the controversy!
19:26 mircea_popescu that right there is the whole shebang in one reference-ladden sentence.
19:27 mircea_popescu and fwiw my reading of orlov is very much in this vein, which is how he keeps evaluating to below 0 in my hands. perhaps counterintuitively for more neutral readers.
19:28 asciilifeform i'm considerably more immediately allergic to his strange cocktail of 'noble savage' luddism, enviro-whinerism
19:28 mircea_popescu i don't care about stupidity per se ; organised stupidity of any kind however is a different matter.
19:29 asciilifeform ah but this type is quite certainly organized.
19:29 asciilifeform (the organized-deindustrialization thread)
19:29 mircea_popescu we might mean different things by organised. i don't mean what is meant by "systematizing" in eg "systematizing delusion"
19:30 mircea_popescu at issue isn't whether they're systematic or systemic ; but whether they're projective.
19:31 asciilifeform he devotes, for instance, entire chapter to defending 'fission power is -ev' by... guess... counting 'regulatory cost' as a constant! as if it were fact of nature
19:31 mircea_popescu heh
19:32 mircea_popescu what's with all the idiots counting "regulatory cost" as a thing in the first place ?
19:32 asciilifeform and, somehow half-admitting that this is crock of shit, proceeds to factor in 1,001-year waste storage cost as constant! also! as if killing bureaucrats has to be expensive (use barges with drowning-hatches, say) and for fuck's sake breeder reactor.
19:32 asciilifeform but he carries on in this project to convince audience, by lying through omission, that no such thing was ever invented
19:32 mircea_popescu usg came up with idea of hiding the tax burden under spurious headings, dorks imported it somehow. then ten years later "obamacare is not a tax". sa mori tu ?
19:33 mircea_popescu asciilifeform random nonsense aside, i also don't believe fusion is +ev in a practical sense. obviously if you can be arsed to gather together enough hydrogen you get your own star for free. but that's about it.
19:33 asciilifeform folx from whom 'the sense of being stolen from was stolen', develop these peculiar leprosies
19:34 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: no +ev controlled fusion had ever been discovered, or even proposed on any kind of logical foundation, afaik.
19:34 mircea_popescu right.
19:34 asciilifeform fission, however, is easily 10,001 yrs +ev if you kill the orlovs and the soroses.
19:35 mircea_popescu wait, he was discussing... fission ?!
19:35 asciilifeform aha!
19:35 mircea_popescu o ffs.
19:35 mircea_popescu there is ~no source of energy available in any sense outside of that.
19:35 mircea_popescu either sunbathe or nuclear reactor. end of story.
19:36 asciilifeform orlov is a (sometimes entertaining) stooge, but not of moscow. of 'agenda 21' or whatever it is called now.
19:36 asciilifeform turner's thing.
19:36 mircea_popescu the cnn-made alt-"putin" that the us invaded itself by ?
19:37 asciilifeform the nyt-made alt-stalin. but approx., yes.
19:38 asciilifeform i will omit the 'genetically modified evils' chapter, to preserve appetites
19:38 mircea_popescu it's funny how each little churchlet of the "reason&science" persuasion has a very carefully not named devil or two.\
19:39 asciilifeform (it contained the familiar ~deliberate~, not at all a result of intellectual sloppiness, conflation, of 'genetically modified' and 'monsanto')
19:39 mircea_popescu "evil ai" or "genetically modified" or you know, something.
19:39 asciilifeform aha. cast out them devils. but also don't forget to cast out the pennies in yer pockets, your reactors, diesel engines, and give'em all to $huckster.
19:40 asciilifeform because mother gaia cries.
19:40 mircea_popescu i think i might have heard this play before.
19:41 asciilifeform fwiw i think he enjoys playing the circle of idiots he 'works' in meatspace. (the funkenstein_ types).
19:42 mircea_popescu what type is that ?
19:42 asciilifeform he devotes page+ to how important it is that people carry fleas again. and how important to bring back shamanic medicines 'in time for inevitable disappearance of pharma industry'. i'd quite like to begin with orlov, and his wife, son
19:42 mircea_popescu wtf fleas ? what ?
19:42 asciilifeform yes, fleas.
19:42 mircea_popescu because why, the only pick-up line he knows comes from dunne ?
19:43 asciilifeform something 'wasted potential for carrying parasite load' something
19:43 asciilifeform and who knows, even that, possible.
19:43 mircea_popescu "how little that which thoud deniest me is!"
19:43 asciilifeform 'and larger fleas, to go on !'
19:43 mircea_popescu i don't get it. wasted potential to what ?
19:44 asciilifeform iirc it was re 'potential' to exist in crowded, low-tech hovels without complaint, or the like
19:44 asciilifeform 'potential' to 'use fewer resources'
19:44 mircea_popescu there is no crowded low tech.
19:44 asciilifeform why not then put them in mass grave, even fewer resources.
19:44 asciilifeform ah i oughta add that he was praising the traditional ru peasant hut. crowded lowtech.
19:45 mircea_popescu such bizarro notions. really, because dork can't think it then follows that mp can't be right and nature will go out of its way to accomodate ?
19:45 mircea_popescu density is a function of tech and strictly that.
19:45 asciilifeform sit 'round smoky fire all winter long in windowless hell, you, mother-in-law, and the livestock.
19:45 mircea_popescu which is this ru crowded low tech thing ?
19:45 mircea_popescu i seem to recall early modern ru having one of the lowest capita per area of all the world.
19:46 asciilifeform who the fuck cares 'per area' of forest
19:46 mircea_popescu um.
19:46 asciilifeform we're talking bodies-per-square-metre-of-indoors.
19:46 mircea_popescu why did you get the idea ru peasant spent time "indoors" ?
19:46 asciilifeform because there is this thing called winter.
19:46 mircea_popescu even so.
19:47 asciilifeform i can't speak for others, but it was always ~that~ part that turned my stomach, reading about olden timez.
19:47 asciilifeform winter with the goats.
19:47 mod6 evenin'
19:47 mircea_popescu heya mod6
19:47 asciilifeform evenin,mod6!
19:47 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i think your reading there maps more to feeling than to history.
19:48 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: no contest. 1st rule of history vs feeling, is that the folx who inhabited 'history', largely didn't give half a fuck
19:48 asciilifeform which is why we're here.
19:48 mircea_popescu myeah
19:49 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> "weds 14:00 to 16:00, phf's lisp class". << this would be pretty cool actually. i'd attend if I could get the timing right...
19:49 mircea_popescu i figure if he sticks to it people will slowly migrate their schedules.
19:49 mod6 Yah, probably so.
19:50 asciilifeform 1400 which time belt..?
19:50 mod6 While implementing automated tests for the wot-variant changes for V (99994) last night, I ran into an issue.
19:50 mircea_popescu i picked a random number, not to be taken seriously
19:51 mod6 I've created some new tests and all of which have been looking good. But then I noticed what seems like a problem on the last, new test, to implement. In fact, it was the last step of the last new test.
19:52 mircea_popescu specifix ?
19:53 mod6 So basically, the deal is, that when using TRB, I have one user in my wot, say "mod6", and I drop out a vpatch from the flow, say "asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip.vpatch" by moving it's seal to "asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip.vpatch.mod6.sig.foobar", then I expected a few things to happen.
19:54 mod6 Referring to this DAG: http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/vpatch-nodes.html
19:54 mircea_popescu ok
19:54 mod6 I expected "asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip.vpatch""asciilifeform_zap_hardcoded_seeds.vpatch", and "asciilifeform_zap_showmyip_crud.vpatch" to be removed from the flow.
19:54 mircea_popescu because they depend on the foregoing
19:54 mod6 Yeah.
19:55 mod6 Now, my flow, as currently coded in V (99994) actually does exactly what I expected above. ^
19:55 mircea_popescu cool
19:55 mod6 However, when I try to press, I realize that this is actually incorrect, or I ~think~ it is incorrect.
19:56 mircea_popescu whyssat
19:56 mod6 You see, when I've tested this in a single edge graph system -- a simple test vpatch set, this problem doesn't occur. a->b->c->d->e, remove 'c', and you just have a->b -- my current implemntation does this fine.
19:57 mircea_popescu aha
19:57 mod6 So, the problem.
19:57 mod6 This vpatch can not press correctly: http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/patches/asciilifeform_dns_thermonyukyoolar_kleansing.vpatch
19:57 mod6 Even though the flow is correct, it depends on changes that are no longer there for files such as init.cpp...
↖
19:58 mircea_popescu uh
19:59 mod6 So basically what I'm seeing is that, once I discover my proper decendants, I also need to reverse check the graph for ~existing~ antecedents to ensure that a proper press can happen.
19:59 mircea_popescu on trying to check out phf 's nice graph i discover btcbase.org/patches redirects, to btcbase.org/patches/nil
↖
19:59 mircea_popescu what was teh link ?
19:59 mod6 His graph doesn't show all of the edges, and as this correctly highlights, I believe to be less than perfect.
↖
20:00 mircea_popescu hm
20:00 mod6 Since this is a multi-edge edge case (for lack of a better way to put it), this happens.
20:01 mod6 There is an edge betwee"bitcoin-asciilifeform.4-goodbye-win32.vpatch" and "asciilifeform_dns_thermonyukyoolar_kleansing.vpatch" which causes my V to think that "asciilifeform_dns_thermonyukyoolar_kleansing.vpatch" still belongs in the flow.
20:01 mircea_popescu mod6 is your presser looking for "one" vs "all" antecedents ?
20:01 mod6 And for that one edge, it does make sense, but since that vpatch changes more than one file, this causes a problem when the files being changed do not aligh.
20:02 mod6 *align
20:02 mod6 So my code finds all the decendants, then topographically sorts them. Then press based on the flow.
20:03 mod6 So I'm thinking that I need to add an additional check to ensure that every vpatch has a corresponding, existing, antecedent in the current flow.
20:03 mircea_popescu theoretically the patch you indicate only depends on zap_showmyip
20:03 mircea_popescu and if that's not pressed (as you removed its seal), then this shouldn't either.
20:04 mod6 ah, since there are more than one graph edge, it must be clobbered as well, "asciilifeform_dns_thermonyukyoolar_kleansing.vpatch", I mean.
20:04 mod6 (and anything else that depends on init.cpp downstream from that as well)
20:04 mircea_popescu well its antecedent is clearly "asciilifeform_zap_showmyip_crud.vpatch"
20:04 mod6 and "net.cpp"
20:04 mircea_popescu if that's removed from the flow, how could it still press
20:05 mod6 so technically, yeah, "asciilifeform_dns_thermonyukyoolar_kleansing.vpatch" has four antecedents.
20:06 mod6 and removal of one doesn't, in my current implementation, ensure it's removal, as there are three other antecedents for this.
20:06 mircea_popescu yeah but you should do "all" rather than "any"
20:06 mod6 so I propose that I need to ensure of its removal by reverse checking every decendants antecedents.
20:07 mircea_popescu a patch can only apply if ALL of its antecedents are present ; not if ANY of its antecedents are present
↖ ↖
20:07 mod6 aha, got it.
20:08 mod6 this makes sense in theory, and mechanically because otherwise, unable to press.
20:08 mircea_popescu in other lulz, me reads " Eric, a year ago I came to similar conclusions. Watching the chaos on the mailing lists and IRC channel,", proceeds to join #rust, is shocked by the sound of utter silence. maybe the guy meant join/part spam, who knows. nice going anyway.
20:09 mod6 Anyway, wanted to spend a few minutes elaborating on my latest battles; I'm making progress, but still need some time to get it straightend out.
20:09 mircea_popescu which are the 4 antecedents for my curiosity ?
20:09 mod6 Once I have that part correct, will update and continue wrapping up the automated tests. Then further testing will begin, etc.
20:10 mod6 one sec.
20:12 mod6 bitcoin-asciilifeform.4-goodbye-win32.vpatch, asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip.vpatchasciilifeform_zap_showmyip_crud.vpatchgenesis.vpatch
20:12 mod6 whoops, missed a space & comma above
20:12 mircea_popescu i don't get how you built this list, fwiw.
20:12 mod6 http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ZcTCa/?raw=true
20:13 mircea_popescu either it depends on the whole tree up to it, ie genesis, asciilifeform.1, rm_rf, asciilifeform.2, asciilifeform.4, dnsseed_snip, zap_hardcoded
20:13 mircea_popescu or else just on the last one.
20:13 mircea_popescu how did you end up with 4 ?!
20:13 mircea_popescu and i thought win-32 is actually a codependency for ver_now_5_4 alongside thermonyukyoolar.
20:14 mod6 so those four, are vpatches that touch the same files that "asciilifeform_dns_thermonyukyoolar_kleansing.vpatch" touches.
20:14 mircea_popescu well yes but this isn't necessarily a criterion is it ?
20:14 mod6 i don't know how the mechanical hash matching would work otherwise.
20:14 mircea_popescu oh i see what you did!
20:15 mircea_popescu ok so you pruned the theoretical tree for only things that touch same file. ok, makes sense in my head now
20:15 mod6 Ok :]
20:15 mircea_popescu yeh yeh right you are.
20:17 mircea_popescu ahahaha steve klabnik. roflmao where the fuck do they dredge up all the amir taakis
20:18 mircea_popescu in other lulz : blog.rust-lang.org went away. there is a https://archive.is/pwdGh however.
20:19 mod6 mircea_popescu: thanks for talking me through it though. Even though for some out there, this might be painfully obvious stuff, but it's not, at least for me. So it's worth going over in detail.
20:19 mircea_popescu hey, it's not for me either, so the sentiment is mutual.
20:20 mod6 I'll work on getting axiom into place in the code, will update further if I hit another issue or need further discussion/direction:
20:20 mod6 asciilifeform_dns_thermonyukyoolar_kleansing.vpatch
20:20 mod6 bah
20:20 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> a patch can only apply if ALL of its antecedents are present ; not if ANY of its antecedents are present << this.
20:21 mod6 o7
20:21 mircea_popescu aha
20:28 mircea_popescu aqnyway, the "hive mind" is fucking comedic already. FIVE YEARS with the subverted python, got them nowhere. close to five years pushing rust, nothing to show for it. systemd is still mostly a joke, and the hatred is growing exponentially while the pustule is growing logarithmic at that. meanwhile the republic cracked open the heartbleed in quite the painful fashion, no matter how much effort went into "rehappening" it. not t
↖
20:28 mircea_popescu o mention ancient strongholds of usgism such as kock-gpg, tor or (again) openssl are being butchered left and right. the attempted anti-bitcoins failed to catch on.
20:28 mircea_popescu situation is fucking dire and the winter is coming, in the sense of it being late november, there's frosts at night.
20:29 mircea_popescu MAKE LIBERTARD PROGRE GREAT AGAIN!!11
20:29 mod6 haha
20:30 mircea_popescu yeah, really. mozilla hanging on to dear life, mostly through its actual workspace having been cannibalized by google at great expense, because holy shit people are going to give up "web" altogether and nobody cares about the tablets in the long run.
20:31 mircea_popescu all the bad hbo productions cranking up to 11 a theoretical future in which everything is "mobile" and "intelligent" by default ain't gonna make the fad not be a fad.
20:37 asciilifeform mod6: afaik the 'edge case' here behaves 100% correctly in my vtron.
20:37 asciilifeform you gotta check the antecedents recursively, as i did.
20:38 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-14#1602666 << YES!!
20:38 a111 Logged on 2017-01-14 01:07 mircea_popescu: a patch can only apply if ALL of its antecedents are present ; not if ANY of its antecedents are present
20:38 mod6 aha.
20:38 mod6 sounds good alf.
20:39 mircea_popescu recursion sounds like perfectly workable aproach yes
20:39 mod6 The good news is, it sounds like we're all aligned on this.
20:40 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-14#1602699 << joke, joke, but go an' download a nonbastardized cd-installable linux.
20:40 a111 Logged on 2017-01-14 01:28 mircea_popescu: aqnyway, the "hive mind" is fucking comedic already. FIVE YEARS with the subverted python, got them nowhere. close to five years pushing rust, nothing to show for it. systemd is still mostly a joke, and the hatred is growing exponentially while the pustule is growing logarithmic at that. meanwhile the republic cracked open the heartbleed in quite the painful fashion, no matter how much effort went into "rehappening" it. not t
20:40 trinque alpine linux is still pretty good
20:40 asciilifeform so from their pov 'it's our way or highway', 'systemd, winblows, crapple, or go write own device drivers'
20:40 trinque but there are only a few gems out there left
20:41 trinque alpine is musltronic even.
20:41 asciilifeform trinque: what's its package system like ?
20:41 asciilifeform can i install x11tronic emacs ?
20:41 asciilifeform ..without dbus ?
20:41 trinque nah, anyone wanting that level of control, straight to gentoo
20:41 trinque only way
20:41 asciilifeform trinque: even on gentoo, nontrivial.
20:42 asciilifeform but my q was in re 'does it properly ban the poetteringization'
20:42 trinque aha, upstream tightens the web of interdependencies by the day
20:42 asciilifeform a respectable linux will include a knife for mercilessly cutting through this 'web'.
20:42 asciilifeform gentoo at one point could have been described this way.
20:43 asciilifeform (today, only mine, and trinque's, and maybe 5 other d00dz have 'personal' gentoos that still behave this way. fueled with unicorn cunt juice.)
20:43 asciilifeform i soured almost totally on openbsd when i labouriously set up a box, with all of the proggies i rely on for daily use, and found that emacs COULD NOT be de-poetteringized without eschewing the ports system entirely
↖ ↖
20:44 whaack mircea when you got a sec could you give me a Eulora account?
20:44 asciilifeform i.e. thing was less sanitary, by long shot, than the shoddiest gentoo.
20:44 * asciilifeform bbl
20:45 trinque I have still on my disk a semi-working portage on openbsd
20:45 trinque but have a hard time justifying the effort to myself any more than other half-measures.
20:45 trinque started reading the python source for portage, barfed.
20:53 mircea_popescu asciilifeform why tge fuck would i DOWNLOAD it! wtf am i, new ? this is like going "go google something and see if you can find something besides wikipedia". dude... srsly, i'm googling things now ? let me try this, oh, let's google "mathematics" see what happens, I NEVER THOUGHT OF THIS BEFORE
20:53 mircea_popescu ffs.
20:53 mircea_popescu there's no future for english speaking children. we knew this already.
20:55 mircea_popescu whaack oh didn't you have one already ?
20:55 whaack i asked for one a long time ago but i never got the game working and didn't save the dpaste message unfortunately
20:56 mircea_popescu ...
20:57 mircea_popescu whaack http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/QIKmG/?raw=true
21:00 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: there is 'download', and there is 'distill from unicorn juice', and i suppose there is, in mircea_popescu's case, 3rd button on the dial, 'ask friend to do it'. but i do not know of a 4th button.
21:01 whaack ty
21:03 mircea_popescu how about "i have disks from before 2016 because I WAS NOT BORN YESTERDAY"
21:04 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: for so long as you don't attempt install of ANYTHING not found on selfsame disks -- worx
21:05 asciilifeform in ~that~ sense, my copy of os/2 warp still worx.
21:06 mircea_popescu "for as long as you weren't born yesterday, not being born yesterday worx".
21:06 mircea_popescu wtf would i install ? "oh i wonder what these new things called ides are, how about i install one and try it out"
21:06 asciilifeform mno
21:06 mircea_popescu what the fuck is there i may not know about and wish to have ? list ?
21:07 asciilifeform eulora?
21:07 mircea_popescu eulora is very carefully engineered to work properly.
21:07 mircea_popescu and will work properli-er in future.
21:07 asciilifeform it'll build on my student-era bsd 4.7?
21:07 * asciilifeform a bit skeptical
21:08 trinque guy said before 2016...
21:08 mircea_popescu this is what you work on, "student era bsd 4.7" ?
21:08 asciilifeform eh that's too easy and includes most of the extant crapola, trinque
21:09 mircea_popescu point is - either you're an adult or you aren't. if you're an adult you don't find out where your asshole goes from googling assholes. if you're not an adult there is no hope for you anyway, no matter what.
21:09 mircea_popescu there's nothing that'll turn taaki into a human being.
21:10 mircea_popescu so the point is essentially moot. yes, if anyone gave a shit "they'd form their whole worldview through watching cnn". the problem is that the people watching cnn aren't goingto ever form a worldview anyway, and the people who will ever have formed a worldview don't watch it.
21:10 mircea_popescu so it's a bit of a pointless victory of the imaginary kind.
21:10 asciilifeform to briefly revisit my actual complaint re openbsd -- if i want emacs but NOT dbus, i am reduced to, more or less, 'make own unix', rather than using openbsd as such.
21:10 asciilifeform and yes, ~adult~ knows how to do this
21:10 asciilifeform but life is short.
21:10 trinque not an entirely accurate picture of it
21:10 trinque it didn't take me longer than 5min to copy the openbsd emacs makefile and remove everything I didn't want
21:11 trinque the ports makefile system is pretty clear
21:11 trinque it does lack the "dbus is haram" across packages, which is certainly an omission.
21:11 asciilifeform 'surgery on makefile, remove what you do not want' is same as having NO ports tree!
21:12 trinque no, it's not
21:12 trinque no matter how many !!!
21:12 asciilifeform it means that i have to manually fiddle with the motherfucker every time.
21:12 asciilifeform trinque: elaborate plox
21:12 trinque so, socialist bureau of portage community is supposed to be there always?
21:13 asciilifeform trinque: i'd actually rather it all went away.
21:13 asciilifeform the pretense is annoying.
21:13 * trinque knows asciilifeform would like to nuke it all
21:14 trinque point being it may not be unreasonable system tuning work to modify the build process of packages; what openbsd has is quite close to having portage feature parity
21:14 asciilifeform just say, honestly, 'the year of our lord is motherfucking 1975 and there is no such thing as autoloading of proggies from network, what is this, science fiction'
21:14 trinque the thing lacking is people using the exact same "flavor" names (flavors being analogous to use flags)
21:14 trinque and then one could rather trivially modify the thing to blacklist flavors
21:15 asciilifeform this is one of those items that needs curator.
21:15 asciilifeform alternatively-- vtronic portage.
21:16 trinque certainly in the case of both portage and bsd ports, "I got my patch past one community organizer idiot" is no standard of merit
21:16 asciilifeform but ~somebody~ is stuck with the thankless chore of determining which package gotta ./configure with --no-herp, which -- --no-derp, etc
21:17 trinque aha, and though doomed to accrete fewer hairy workarounds, doomed still.
21:18 asciilifeform i will confess, at one point i contemplated a 'vtronic bsd', but i have difficulty mustering any further enthusiasm for keeping unix on life support
21:18 asciilifeform let it die. bury it.
21:19 mircea_popescu "autoloading" of proggies "from network" is basically javascript.
21:19 mircea_popescu go, autoload.
21:20 mircea_popescu autofucking of girlies "from grindr" is a) trap and b) herpes.
21:21 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aha, 'modern computing' folx are essentially characters from lem's 'futurological congress', thinking that they have all kinds of neato tech, e.g., robot servants, but the latter are just d00ds doped up to think they are robots, and those served -- doped up also, to think they own robots, etc.
21:22 mircea_popescu so then it is entirely unclear what your position is after all.
21:22 mircea_popescu beyond "i disagree with what mp just said because my tooth hurts and i agree with him"
21:23 asciilifeform aah but in order to agree, i would have to figure out what mircea_popescu's was!
21:23 asciilifeform other than 'hey if you're an adult and weren't born yesterday, Things Work'
21:23 mircea_popescu but at the risk of repeating myself, here it is again : esr, fabled luminary of the "blabla programming style" failed to get his thing done in a week. mp, fabled terrorist, managed to get his thing done in a week.
21:24 mircea_popescu and i'm not about to stand for any "it doesn't counts because".
21:24 asciilifeform what was the thing of esr?
21:24 asciilifeform i missed it
21:25 mircea_popescu so : if you're EVER GOING TO BE an adult, the idiocy outside doesn't matter. and if the idiocy outside matters, you weren't ever going to be an adult anyway. entirely disjunct sets
21:25 mircea_popescu and yes sucks for anyone born in 1990s, but so it goes.
21:25 mircea_popescu it sucked for anyone born in 1910 also.
21:25 mircea_popescu asciilifeform tried to try out rust. he gets no bots, has to make his own irc server, there's no phf etc.
21:26 asciilifeform i thought -- 1920
21:26 asciilifeform (1920s folx -- straight into meatgrinder)
21:27 mircea_popescu well imagine those schmucks, born in 1910, starved duyring puberty, while orphaned by influenza, then spent their adult years at war, by the time they were 40 they had a cot of their own and enough fleas to satisfy their dog best friend, because woman was old and ugly already when they met.
21:27 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: hm, interesting. though no one ought to be surprised to not find a phf & co. for $randomshitlang
21:28 mircea_popescu the fact that no one is surprised is an argument for what i was saying.
21:28 mircea_popescu yes, no one is surprised. of course not.
21:30 mircea_popescu so, yet again : either you know computers, today, in which case you don't need the "open source" usgtards ; or else you don't know computers, today, in which case YOU NEVER WILL. period. no escape, no buts, no nothing. you NEVER WILL. and consequently it fucking does not matter one diddly what you do, be it github or reddit or writing lengthy missives to asciilifeform
21:30 asciilifeform the 1 place i must disagree is 'idiocy outside does not matter to adult. the sweat i put in to remove the fleas from trb, but also from many other things so that i could even attempt that work, was quite real.
21:31 asciilifeform the idiots had very real impact,
21:31 asciilifeform the amount of flamethrower fuel they cost me, is considerable.
21:31 mircea_popescu this has not so much to do with them and a lot to do with satoshi being a derp.
21:32 asciilifeform not only him.
21:32 asciilifeform rms also.
21:32 asciilifeform linux
21:32 asciilifeform linus
21:32 asciilifeform all of'em
21:32 asciilifeform why did i have to saw dbus out of emacs? ~why was it there??!~ to begin with.
21:33 mircea_popescu every once in a while it'll happen that a retard has a good idea and fucks it up in the implementation. this is unavoidable, and some dirtying of hands will occur.
21:33 trinque emacs is already a monstrous amalgamation itself, before dbus
21:33 trinque they were just continuing the theme
21:33 asciilifeform do you recall the integer bug in motherfucking gcc?!
21:33 mircea_popescu yeah should be curious to see when did alf like dbus. rms ? pre ? post ?
21:34 asciilifeform at one point i had no substantial quarrel with rms.
21:35 mircea_popescu in other holy shit wtf is wrong with people - mp decides to examine wtf are these dorks doing to his xmlrpc.php. so he writes in serialize($_POST), which is apparently how you're supposed to do this. but which also promptly fucks something up
21:41 asciilifeform speaking of shitware lelz, i have here a toy comp that logs in 'with finger', and after the incident with the cement, guess wat!!
21:42 asciilifeform (btw cemented what? squirrel holes in roof eaves)
21:43 mircea_popescu lol
~ 24 minutes ~
22:08 mircea_popescu this is utterly incomprehensible. so there's this bunch of bots that keep making empty post requests, identify as googlebot. here's a sample :
↖
22:08 mircea_popescu s:15:"HTTP_USER_AGENT" s:47:"Googlebot/2.1
22:08 mircea_popescu (+http://www.google.com/bot.html)" s:12:"QUERY_STRING" s:0:"" s:13:"191.101.6.178" s:14:"REQUEST_METHOD" s:4:"POST" s:11:"REQUEST_URI" s:11:"/xmlrpc.php" s:18:"REQUEST_TIME_FLOAT" d:1484362254.992538928985595703125 s:12:"REQUEST_TIME" i:1484362254 s:4:"argv" a:0:{}s:4:"argc" i:0 }
22:09 mircea_popescu leaving aside the idiocy of ... seriously, you're going to specify BOTH request time and request time float to be passed around through each request forever ?!?! ... wtf is this ? empty posts to xmlrpc.php. why.
22:09 mircea_popescu if anyone can explain this wonder to me i'd be indebted.
22:13 mircea_popescu at first i thought they're trying to spam trilema, and doing it from central ip but inept enough to not realize that the custom error message trilema spits if you try this is NOT a success (ie, matching for failure, and failing to move on). ie, stupid.
22:13 mircea_popescu but as the months wore on (no fucking kidding, half a year +, 2-3-5 a minute, every minute, no exception, i've seen by now 10`000s of ips doing THIS and this only) i started thinking maybe i'm the stupid one here ?
22:14 mircea_popescu so i thought long and hard wtf it could be, and it finally occured to me maybe they're using the pingback checking trilema does to "drive traffic", ie, dorks "buy traffic", spammer asks list of wordpress installs to check if dork has pingback, dork thinks he's getting "uniques".
22:15 mircea_popescu but no, you can't do this with an empty post, it'd have to include dataz.
22:15 * mircea_popescu is entirely confounded.
22:21 mircea_popescu oh unsurprisingly enough rust has a "code of conduct". this is getting to be signal-positive : if $item has "code of conduct", $item is comprised of idiots, imbeciles and their handlers.
22:24 mircea_popescu "Your free speech is not our problem. We recognize that this policy is a restrictive political stance. That is the intent. If you want a room with different rules, go create one."
22:24 mircea_popescu hurr. stomp a sjw face today.
22:28 mircea_popescu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gExZMLrIvWI << pretty lulzy as far as entomology goes. tl;dw : infantile beta male with a history of derping about how "boyish" everyone else is.
~ 23 minutes ~
22:52 ben_vulpes CoC has been a warning flag forever
22:56 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> watching glue dry is better nao. << How are the urethane warts doing?
~ 16 minutes ~
23:13 mircea_popescu lmao
23:14 mircea_popescu anyway, /me tires of #rust. there's been 500 join/parts and strictly one line ("<clmg> How do I borrow a vector mutably while iterating over that vector? Is it possible?") in the past 3 hours.
23:16 mircea_popescu (you may be excused from thinking that's a stupid question, as it is, but nevertheless the rust lingo is insane in this vein. "why can i not borrow a boxed vector content as mutable" ie let's make up a whole lingo of nonsense)
23:18 mircea_popescu https://archive.is/Gnziq <<< powering the ethereum revolution, among other unheretoforeheardof lulz
23:21 mircea_popescu https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ <<< guess what else is gone.
↖
23:29 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-14#1602836 << they shit in phuctor's mouth also
23:29 a111 Logged on 2017-01-14 03:08 mircea_popescu: this is utterly incomprehensible. so there's this bunch of bots that keep making empty post requests, identify as googlebot. here's a sample :
23:30 ben_vulpes i went a-hunting for an 0.8.6 binary for a friend recently
23:31 ben_vulpes completely gone.
23:31 ben_vulpes stripped from web.
23:33 BingoBoingo Oh my
23:34 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i might have one
23:34 asciilifeform why do you need a binary anyway
23:34 asciilifeform (and for what?)
23:35 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: lel, maidsafe?! in there. i had nfi still existed
23:40 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-14#1602856 << that link -- loads
23:40 a111 Logged on 2017-01-14 04:21 mircea_popescu: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ <<< guess what else is gone.
23:40 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: well, 'need'. went looking.
23:41 ben_vulpes wasn't in the mood for trbquest on civvy machine
23:41 ben_vulpes normie cucks gotta normie cuck, you know?
23:42 asciilifeform dunno
23:42 asciilifeform why not subscribe him to mtgox then.
23:42 asciilifeform this friend of yers.
23:43 ben_vulpes man has to understand what he's dealing with.
23:43 ben_vulpes "ohey look, the dipshits took down the legacy bins." "...oh. that's not good."
23:43 asciilifeform with mtgox, he will, if he has half a brain, understand that he has 0 btc, but buncha promises. but with prb, might have delusion of control
23:44 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: i appreciate the concern. nobody in my wot's operating under the delusion that modernly available bitcoin clients will move their coins safely.
23:45 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: did the prbistas even distribute bins for anything but winblowz ?
23:45 ben_vulpes aye, there were macos bins.
23:45 asciilifeform ah with the qt thing
23:46 ben_vulpes mhm
23:47 ben_vulpes so is 'echo' really how you get values from php to html?
← 2017-01-12 | 2017-01-14 → ↑

Random(trilema) | Download hourly DB snapshot | Get Source Code

Theme: Light | Dark | System Default