Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2017-01-06 | 2017-01-08 →
00:38 deedbot http://cascadianhacker.com/rogue-one << CH - Rogue One
00:43 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/01/weakened-kryders-law-kills-bit-company/ << Qntra - Weakened Kryder's "Law" kills Bit-company
00:46 ben_vulpes http://harpers.org/archive/1964/11/the-paranoid-style-in-american-politics/?single=1 << "Moreover, we need not dismiss out of hand as totally parochial or mean-spirited the desire of Yankee Americans to maintain an ethnically and religiously homogeneous society nor the particular Protestant commitments to individualism and freedom that were brought into play."
00:46 ben_vulpes my how times have changed
00:47 trinque "the international bankers" in scare quotes. how quaint
00:53 trinque asciilifeform: thought wasn't that the shooting was the hangout, but the leak of "they made me watch ISIS vids" to press
00:55 trinque all the right rags trumpeted that detail rather quickly.
~ 1 hours 16 minutes ~
02:12 deedbot http://www.contravex.com/2017/01/07/introducing-prince-waterbath/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Introducing Prince Waterbath.
~ 4 hours 20 minutes ~
06:32 mircea_popescu nice find mod6
06:33 mircea_popescu trinque it's not "didn't work". in the economy of the narcissist mind lashing out at untouchable target never is about ~the target~.
06:33 mircea_popescu which is why stories about "the aliens" always have in clinical practice a little coda about one's father in law or w/e.
06:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha, until someone deigns to rein in the html soup and implement one...
06:35 mircea_popescu (of course as far as the spec goes, the bot saves archive.is + base64 blobs of all pages, so there is that, as inconvenient as it is)
06:36 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski nice qntra.
~ 19 minutes ~
06:56 mircea_popescu http://qntra.net/2017/01/fuck-white-people-pack-of-native-chicagoans-torture-captive-white-boy/ << lmao. did they hate him because handicapped (utterly natural impulse, this, btw) or because trump won ?
06:59 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes any chance of getting last articles and last comments on your sidebar ?
~ 1 hours 5 minutes ~
08:04 mircea_popescu in other lulz, https://archive.is/qhUdp (trump meets with conde nast, new york times can barely contain its desperate enthusiasm "see ? we are still relevant! mp was wrong!!11"
08:09 mircea_popescu in other lulz, "In 2008, the three broadcast networks, in their nightly news programs, devoted over the entire year a total of three hours and 40 minutes to issues reporting (defined as independent coverage of election issues, not arising from candidate statements or debates). In 2016, that plummeted to a grand total of just 36 minutes."
08:10 mircea_popescu and that "entire year" is 365*24*60=525600 minutes ; NOT prime-time minutes. if you only count those, it's been 0.
08:11 mircea_popescu us state media managed to catch up with the usg's dept of human feeding's record : hamburger with meat ~70 ppm, news with meat ~70 ppm, it's all good and all the same.
08:15 mircea_popescu "Would it matter if the mainstream media did a better job? Or do we live in a post-truth age in which we are so distrusted that our investigations will be dismissed, if they are seen at all? I’m not sure, but we must at least try."
08:15 mircea_popescu epic.
08:16 mircea_popescu kristof can;t quite bring himself to say "everyone reads trilema anyway ; we're dogfood", gotta talk about facebook nonsense instead.
08:16 mircea_popescu must suck to be 57 and in the wrong boat.
08:25 mircea_popescu https://archive.is/9H2mQ << and especially so after having been 42 and in the right one.
~ 52 minutes ~
09:18 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/rH53s/?raw=true
09:18 mircea_popescu if too long say an' i'll trilema it instead.
~ 15 minutes ~
09:33 mircea_popescu !!up netmonk
09:33 deedbot netmonk voiced for 30 minutes.
09:35 netmonk hello thank you mircea_popescu
09:35 netmonk and happy new years everyone
09:35 mircea_popescu sure. you kenny yu ?
09:36 netmonk no im not
09:36 mircea_popescu aite.
09:36 netmonk he is an impostor holding netmonk.com
09:36 netmonk :)
09:36 mircea_popescu ic.
09:37 netmonk i was netmonk long before him ! :)
09:37 mircea_popescu so what brings you in these here parts ?
09:42 netmonk the masochistic pleasure to read your prose :)
09:42 mircea_popescu lol i c
09:43 mircea_popescu well so !!register your key and have fun.
09:43 netmonk yeah
09:43 netmonk !!register
09:43 deedbot Import failed for netmonk.
09:43 mircea_popescu what did you say to it ?
09:43 netmonk gpg or btc ?
09:43 netmonk !!help register
09:43 deedbot http://deedbot.org/help.html
09:43 mircea_popescu gpg
09:43 netmonk damn i need to find my smartcard :)
09:44 netmonk found
09:44 mircea_popescu http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/4266702410F18D010B594265172DA77CFDAC402DFB9D2953199D4D6DC8B9D690
09:44 netmonk isn't it linked to gribble ?
09:44 netmonk im already registed on it
09:44 mircea_popescu what's it ?
09:44 mircea_popescu !!gettrust netmonk
09:44 deedbot L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
09:44 netmonk for #bitcoin-otc
09:44 mircea_popescu ah yes you are.
09:45 mircea_popescu !!rate netmonk 1 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598041
09:45 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 14:42 netmonk: the masochistic pleasure to read your prose :)
09:45 deedbot netmonk is not registered in WoT.
09:45 mircea_popescu lmao trinque which is it ?
09:45 trinque !!key netmonk
09:45 deedbot No such key.
09:46 mircea_popescu netmonk if you registered with gribble after the split, you're not in there.
09:46 trinque that isn't registered
09:46 mircea_popescu trinque aha, it just returns 0 yeah.
09:46 trinque netmonk: it just wants your fingerprint without spaces after !!register
09:46 mircea_popescu is it possible to return "not registered" instead ?
09:46 trinque sure
09:46 mircea_popescu ty
09:47 netmonk !!register 0x15F6BC08DC5EC056
09:47 deedbot 6FD9603CAEDCB7638EFBE9D115F6BC08DC5EC056 registered as netmonk.
09:47 mircea_popescu o.O that works even ?
09:47 mircea_popescu !!rate netmonk 1 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598041
09:47 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 14:42 netmonk: the masochistic pleasure to read your prose :)
09:47 deedbot Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/5fwGs/?raw=true
09:48 mircea_popescu !!v CCD39ED41E126F5F5B3C89DDD7BFBDA16580B41B9EBF480933B00E932DA04556
09:48 deedbot mircea_popescu rated netmonk 1 << http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598041
09:48 trinque yep if recv-key will take it, works. then there's the supply-via-paste method too.
09:48 mircea_popescu netmonk now you can !!up yourself. and how's the soul of the internet doing ?
09:51 Framedragger btw trinque i don't think my gpg key has all the associated ratings in your wot.deedbot.org wwwtron. but mebbe the latter isn't finished anyway, so i'm jumping ahead of myself :)
09:51 netmonk strange i cannot decode the message
09:52 trinque netmonk: might you have used the wrong key ID?
09:52 mircea_popescu lmao
09:52 Framedragger trinque: ( http://wot.deedbot.org/E2DF986D58A0D3876BA165FACC0510AAFD8AF4B7.html vs http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/8iXWh/?raw=true )
09:52 trinque Framedragger: I decided to eat a beach ball whaddayawant
09:52 mircea_popescu trinque how does it transform a short fp into the whole thing ? "15F6BC08DC5EC056" is insecure enough.
09:52 trinque jk, lemme set the thing to regen per hour
09:53 trinque mircea_popescu: however gpg does; I'm just passing it as argument to --recv-key
09:53 Framedragger amazing phraseologism
09:53 mircea_popescu tsk. how about disabling sub-fp search altogether. kock0gpg is evil.
09:53 netmonk master key
09:54 netmonk !!register 0x62F6E94CB8BEC891
09:54 deedbot netmonk is already registered.
09:54 netmonk arg
09:54 trinque that's not a fp
09:55 netmonk i gave my master key id instead of subkey encrypting
09:55 netmonk !!register 62F6E94CB8BEC891
09:55 deedbot netmonk is already registered.
09:56 netmonk erfg
09:56 mircea_popescu !!key mircea_popescu
09:56 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452.asc
09:57 mircea_popescu me too.
09:57 trinque mircea_popescu: is there a setting for that? otherwise gonna have to wait a bit
09:57 mircea_popescu in gpg you mean ? nah, and i wouldn't trust it anyway. ok to wait, it waited for a year before masochist guy found the rake in grass to step on
09:57 trinque lol
09:58 trinque would it be a terrible breach of ethics to help this guy re-register?
09:59 mircea_popescu nah, seeing how a) it's the first time and b) he's nobody anyway
09:59 netmonk :)
09:59 mircea_popescu re-registering a nick with ratings on it can't be done, but unrated they're all equally the same.
09:59 netmonk man i will have to load my master private key
09:59 netmonk wich is offline :(
09:59 mircea_popescu netmonk well alternatively you could also know what your policies are and follow them neh ?
10:00 netmonk why the bot didnt find the subkey used for encryption
10:00 trinque it used the key you told it.
10:00 trinque we're not much about "do what I mean" around heah
10:00 netmonk right
10:01 trinque netmonk: I've deleted your registration; feel free to re-reg when you have the right key in hand
10:01 netmonk thank you
10:02 netmonk !!register 0x62F6E94CB8BEC891
10:02 deedbot 6FD9603CAEDCB7638EFBE9D115F6BC08DC5EC056 registered as netmonk.
10:02 * mircea_popescu will wait for self upping to rate. o wait, that doesn't work does it. A WELL!!1
10:02 mircea_popescu !!rate netmonk 1 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598041
10:02 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 14:42 netmonk: the masochistic pleasure to read your prose :)
10:02 deedbot Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/SzgT8/?raw=true
10:03 mircea_popescu !!v 49495EEDAC84BA490E236AF5CB0A220CD691D7E9D665512F9FE7271B1F189AD9
10:03 deedbot mircea_popescu rated netmonk 1 << http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598041
10:06 trinque netmonk: send !!up to deedbot in a private message, then decrypt the response, and reply to deedbot with !!v <your OTP here>
10:07 mircea_popescu this may be the least inclusive place in existence. imagine, trinque , the guy is long time linux sysadmin, specializes in assembly cycle shaving.
10:08 mircea_popescu and in other news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/594d569be7627987cbc14dcd32f451be/tumblr_o3x2e3puKD1ut5gyro1_1280.jpg
10:11 mircea_popescu but here's what i don't understand : the substring 62F6E94CB8BEC891 is not found within 6FD9603CAEDCB7638EFBE9D115F6BC08DC5EC056 ; and moreover http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598125 == http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598076
10:11 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 15:02 deedbot: 6FD9603CAEDCB7638EFBE9D115F6BC08DC5EC056 registered as netmonk.
10:11 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 14:47 deedbot: 6FD9603CAEDCB7638EFBE9D115F6BC08DC5EC056 registered as netmonk.
10:11 trinque not a bad sort algorithm. most intolerant of an obstacle remaining in his path gets in first.
10:12 trinque I have no evidence yet that using that key ID works, or what other heinous acts gpg undertakes when handed one
10:12 trinque which is why the docs told the guy to use his fp
10:12 mircea_popescu myeah.
10:14 mircea_popescu !!up netmonk
10:14 deedbot netmonk voiced for 30 minutes.
10:14 asciilifeform !!key netmonk
10:14 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/6FD9603CAEDCB7638EFBE9D115F6BC08DC5EC056.asc
10:18 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: he has two moduli in there, one with shortfp of 0x83689A8469C299B1 , another -- 0x15F6BC08DC5EC056 .
10:18 mircea_popescu aha.
10:18 asciilifeform (this in re 'why not substring')
10:19 mircea_popescu no i know. the point being - insanity contradicts expectation. i'm not importing koch.
10:19 mircea_popescu and entirely unrelatedly : anyone willing to stand up an irc bot for me (as a service for hire deal) and expose some kind of programmable interface that can read messages to it, process and push out a reply ? bonus points if i don't have to learn crazy-shitstick-"$modernlanguage".
10:20 * mircea_popescu kind-of has a hankering to dick around with "ai", but no time to fuck with linux eigenstates.
10:22 netmonk hum
10:23 mircea_popescu what did you do, netmonk ! using md5 for hashing gb-sized packages was not bad enough, now you've done fucked your keythings!
10:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: iirc somebody here had an eliza/shannonizer bot thing ready to fire
10:24 mircea_popescu visit #trilema for an hour, soak up shame to last many years!
10:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform ya but who
10:24 netmonk you see ! :)
10:24 netmonk im not much into gpg stuff
10:24 netmonk anyway ! :)
10:25 mircea_popescu that's like saying "i'm not much into clean linens". your personal taste in the matter is a relatively secondary concern. the primary thing is they don't let you inside oxford unless you wash.
10:25 netmonk well i too old for oxford
10:25 mircea_popescu it's not calvesford.
10:25 netmonk and i hope my bad reputation wont transfer to my child :)
10:26 mircea_popescu this monkery is a scam.
10:26 netmonk so buy fingerprint
10:26 netmonk do you mean
10:26 netmonk gpg --list-keys --fingerprint ?
10:26 mircea_popescu 40 byte fingerprint, yes.
10:27 netmonk space included ?
10:27 mircea_popescu no.
10:27 netmonk and which one ? masterkey of encrypting subkey ?
10:28 netmonk s/of/or/
10:28 mircea_popescu im not even sure what this difference is supposed to mean, but anyway. my own key uses the master and i've not had any problems, so there's that.
10:30 netmonk ok
10:30 netmonk ;;register 6FD9603CAEDCB7638EFBE9D115F6BC08DC5EC056
10:31 netmonk this is my master key fingerprint
10:31 mircea_popescu !!key netmonk
10:31 deedbot http://wot.deedbot.org/6FD9603CAEDCB7638EFBE9D115F6BC08DC5EC056.asc
10:31 mircea_popescu alright then
10:33 netmonk lets try the otp then
10:34 netmonk !!up
10:34 deedbot Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/F0wVU/?raw=true
10:34 trinque netmonk: of course when not already voiced you'd have to do that in a private message to the bot
10:35 netmonk ;;v 8C3DABE6E76AE5C4F3B0D4CF20FB3D0970BC3477AD728E353903F234B702E67E
10:35 netmonk trinque: understood
10:36 netmonk i least i was succesfull to decrypt the otp :)
10:36 netmonk so things seems to work so far, thank you !
10:37 mircea_popescu netmonk !!v
10:38 netmonk !!v 8C3DABE6E76AE5C4F3B0D4CF20FB3D0970BC3477AD728E353903F234B702E67E
10:38 deedbot You are now voiced in #trilema
10:38 mircea_popescu wd.
10:38 netmonk seems to be good
10:38 netmonk :)
10:38 trinque netmonk: welcome
10:38 netmonk thank you
10:38 mircea_popescu now then, were you looking for stuff to do ? other than reading the log that is.
10:38 netmonk i will try to improve my gpg skills
10:39 netmonk well i still have all the backlog from one year ago to read
10:39 mircea_popescu aite.
10:39 netmonk when i was idling here
10:39 netmonk under another nick :)
10:39 mircea_popescu lol!
10:39 netmonk !!reputation netmonk
10:39 deedbot http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/aHmNo/?raw=true
10:40 mircea_popescu !#s plonky
10:40 a111 35 results for "plonky", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=plonky
10:42 netmonk see :)
10:42 netmonk http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=hegemoOn
10:42 netmonk even mode with this one
10:43 netmonk danielpbarron still around :)
10:43 netmonk s/mode/more/
10:46 netmonk mircea_popescu: do you have some work to propose ?
10:47 mircea_popescu there's both the profiling of large db indexes stored as ext4 or xfs ; and the implementing of the fabulous mp hash in asm and cycle counting it.
10:49 mircea_popescu and in bowling today, http://68.media.tumblr.com/e508eb3b6a2d0c590f7e90354675603b/tumblr_o817i21evc1uifa4mo8_1280.jpg
10:55 netmonk mp for minimal perfect ?
10:58 mircea_popescu no, for my name.
10:58 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2017/towards-a-better-hash-function/ < this thing.
~ 43 minutes ~
11:41 netmonk interesting
11:42 netmonk but not much time for that currently
11:42 mircea_popescu aite.
11:42 netmonk you listen reggae ?
11:42 mircea_popescu on occasion.
11:43 netmonk "aite" reminds me some jamaican slang
11:43 mircea_popescu it's what it is.
11:43 netmonk boomboclot
11:43 mircea_popescu i'm an utter linguistic slut, if it wasn't screamingly obvious.
11:44 mod6 mornin'
11:44 mircea_popescu hola mod6
11:45 mod6 hola mircea_popescu
11:45 mod6 I like that MARC thing. seems useful.
11:46 mircea_popescu aha
11:46 mod6 be neat to have a tmsr mirror of that; probably yuuuge tho.
11:46 mircea_popescu mostly text so can't be that huge. and yes.
11:47 mircea_popescu iirc it was made for a very tmsr-like reason - kde people wanted to save their mailing list
11:47 mod6 yeah, seems like it. then they just kept adding other archives. very helpful.
11:50 mircea_popescu "First of all, we were then and continue to be impressed by MySQL, for its stability, performance, range of features, and price" << https://marc.info/?q=about
11:53 mircea_popescu and in other "competing with africa" news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/5d918039dab081143fd78f7b0e4e6b0b/tumblr_o2u4g9AyWj1qh70jeo1_1280.jpg
12:04 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598017 << i too would like this very much!
12:04 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 11:59 mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes any chance of getting last articles and last comments on your sidebar ?
12:04 ben_vulpes but you must content yourself with http://cascadianhacker.com/comments/feed for now
12:05 ben_vulpes i'm one more 'undefined is not a function' away from moving to boring and raising cashmere goats
12:06 ben_vulpes fixing my wp template heinous though it definitely is is not anywhere near the top of my list of things to do
12:07 ben_vulpes aaand trilema down! a+, yahoo.
12:07 ben_vulpes er
12:07 ben_vulpes tumblr
12:07 ben_vulpes coffee nao
12:20 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: you probably know this but each post has an rss feed for its comments as well
12:21 ben_vulpes augh gabriel_laddel_p i'm formatting your comment into sanity
12:21 ben_vulpes plx to blockquote
12:28 trinque this shit where g_l is replying to me in your fucking blog
12:29 trinque I'm not using networkmanager; where's my lisp nic?
12:29 asciilifeform trinque: it's in yer gizmo2, lel. just gotta write the driver!111
12:29 trinque lel
12:31 * trinque must quote asciilifeform to g_l
12:31 trinque !#s hire cheapest
12:31 a111 17 results for "hire cheapest", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=hire%20cheapest
12:32 ben_vulpes do eet on muh blergh
12:32 asciilifeform trinque: eh he's a veeery speshul trainflake, managed to read (if one is to believe) my compleateworx, and learn 0
12:33 trinque ben_vulpes: I made the statement here, will wait for the day g_l shows up permanently and raises the thread
12:33 trinque this dancing about like he gets to define how the logs work is out
12:34 ben_vulpes i kid, i kid.
12:34 asciilifeform trinque: it's the national folkdance of 'i am young and GENYOOS and californian and hip and here comes me'
12:38 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes thing is, i land on your page, i have no easy way of knowing what moves.
12:38 asciilifeform 'Until I can buy a lisp nic, I'll be networkmanagering it up thank you very much.' << lel
12:38 trinque because there is nothing beneath! fucks sake
12:38 trinque can't just talk to wpa_supplicant no
12:38 asciilifeform trinque: you can tell that d00d took 0 trouble to read, e.g., the pogo archives
12:39 asciilifeform (y'know, where i stuffed bootable linux kernel + userland + trb into 5MB with 0 drepperola or poetteringola)
12:39 asciilifeform on a godforsaken motherfucking toy arm.
12:39 trinque aha, or your or my gentoo recipes
12:39 asciilifeform or.
12:41 asciilifeform 'Gentoo can PRACTICALLY be improved by slowly & surely eliminating it from Masamune. There are plenty of people who can, and have written lisp bootloaders. The only problem with this (and all related projects) is that they're incomplete, due to lacking a working lisp environment one can integrate with. People write code using the _stable_ abstractions at hand.'
12:42 asciilifeform you can tell here that gabriel_laddel either does not know, or care, what sort of herculean labour is involved in undoing years of design braindamage
12:42 asciilifeform how or why, for instance, it took most of a year to arrive at a 100% static and embeddable trb
12:42 trinque all I can say is, take part in the forum. it'll rid you of that american megalomania, or get rid of you, real quick.
12:43 asciilifeform but notice, he won't, like vampire avoids the sun
12:43 mircea_popescu wait, was trilema down !?
12:43 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: not afaik
12:43 mircea_popescu a ok
12:44 asciilifeform also gabriel_laddel inspired me to invent new type of aircraft propulsion system. take ordinary house, and SLOWLY & SURELY excavate a few km of earth from underneath it !
12:45 mircea_popescu lol
12:45 asciilifeform who needs wings, engines, etc.
12:45 mircea_popescu alf's scathing is getting ever more acidic week by week.
12:46 asciilifeform eh i had more than the appropriate measure of sympathy for the poor bugger because laboured under the impression that he, fwiw, was a monster i had an indirect hand in creating
12:46 asciilifeform but all patience is finite.
12:46 mircea_popescu so ?
12:46 mircea_popescu this is ridoinculous, the paternal fallacy. "oh he sucks but i made him". doh ? do you do the same with code, also ?
12:47 asciilifeform it is ridiculous, and i swore it off.
12:47 mircea_popescu more sympathy by a large margin is owed to the things no one made, than to the suspected fruits of anyone's loins.
12:49 asciilifeform i dunno how mircea_popescu cuts the knot of distinguishing (say, among his pets) 'slow learner' from 'militant ignoramus'
12:49 asciilifeform afaik it is an open problem, and reduces to 'set knob to arbitary place you can live with'
12:49 mircea_popescu anyway, i'm not entirely up to speed re sad state of lisp world. i expect it's in the shitter, but not exactly clear how. is there any merit to the nude assertion that "lisp is a shittier thing than trb, because trb at least has SOMETHING that can be made into a musl ; whereas lisp does not" ?
12:50 mircea_popescu asciilifeform death distinguishes. i literally beat them until they either die or reform.
12:50 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the 'lisp trb' is sussman's 'scheme83' chip.
12:50 asciilifeform published design, and not only design, but the mask generator (runs on, i shit thee not, itself, also)
12:50 asciilifeform it is slightly older than asciilifeform .
12:51 mircea_popescu so lisp exists, as a factual matter.
12:51 asciilifeform aha.
12:51 mircea_popescu (it is, believe it or not, entirely not evident from the activity of "lisp people" whether it does or does not exist, the object of their work/preoccupation.)
12:52 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: clarify "what moves"?
12:52 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: in this century 'lisp people' tend to resemble holyromanempire's 'roman people'
12:52 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes "if ch approximates an immutable datastruct over the interval lastvisit - currentvisit".
12:53 trinque ^ aka took me a minute to find g_l's reply to me
12:53 mircea_popescu in practice i come to understand now, after thousands of articles / years blogging, that in fact the frontend to a blog should really be as close to a... vdiff patch! as practicable.
12:53 trinque which was probably intentional on his part
12:53 mircea_popescu and let's pass in silence over the circumstance that i'd have never figured that out if i kept blogging by itself.
12:54 asciilifeform 'At one point in time I reviewed ALL CL codebases.' << d00d read & fit-in-head all of macsyma ? i'd luv to see.
12:54 ben_vulpes smells rather strongly of "read" == "rolled eyeballs over"
12:55 trinque it could be said that insofar as the CL standard does not specify a machine, it is drastically incomplete
12:55 trinque and that lack leads directly to the present day diaspora, and the ghettos, on other systems
12:56 mircea_popescu the idea being c passively specifies the machine ?
12:56 asciilifeform considering that the standard was a product of a truce between competing lispm vendors, it is not mega-surprise. but trinque is right.
12:56 trinque mircea_popescu: indeed
12:57 asciilifeform trinque: c fails even at this, consider the atrocity of 'endianism', word sizes, and 101 other variations that break a c proggy
12:57 mircea_popescu yeah i was thinking... hm.
12:57 mircea_popescu it does not specify it in the sane sense. but his contention is not baseless.
12:58 trinque then the failure of outer specification makes the inner nigh meaningless
12:58 asciilifeform trinque: zetalisp (nonstandardized but exceptionally well-documented smbx lispm lisp) ~was~ specified from low-level machine model
12:58 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598150 << i would be happy to stand a trinquebot up for you
12:58 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 15:19 mircea_popescu: and entirely unrelatedly : anyone willing to stand up an irc bot for me (as a service for hire deal) and expose some kind of programmable interface that can read messages to it, process and push out a reply ? bonus points if i don't have to learn crazy-shitstick-"$modernlanguage".
12:59 asciilifeform trinque: it was an interesting document, at one point i linked it here
12:59 ben_vulpes trinque: any action on recording all message lines or is that a patch i should cook?
12:59 trinque please do if you like
12:59 trinque but lets discuss; I've got idears
12:59 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes what'd i script it in, lisp ?
12:59 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: sql, lisp if you like
13:00 mircea_popescu great opportunity for me to learn / everyone to lol at my learning lisp!
13:00 mircea_popescu how much for a year's worth of hosting it + the occasional reboot ?
13:00 ben_vulpes ooh pricing exercises
13:02 ben_vulpes let's say 2 btc, and that'll cover the patch to record all protocol lines as well
13:02 mircea_popescu the patch to who ?
13:02 ben_vulpes the patch to the trinquebot
13:02 mircea_popescu yes but to ?
13:03 ben_vulpes currently trinquebot only logs vanilla messages in its channels
13:03 mircea_popescu and what are protocol lines ?
13:03 ben_vulpes not eg privmsg and action
13:03 trinque dunno if that's needed for this
13:03 trinque it does log privmsg
13:03 ben_vulpes ah that's right
13:04 trinque privmsg is used for both channel messages and pm
13:04 trinque what it doesn't log is every protocol line that goes to/fro; it logs parsed message lines only
13:04 ben_vulpes mhm. it's the ACTION lines that it doesn't catch.
13:04 ben_vulpes protocol lines include server banners etc
13:04 mircea_popescu ah. the way i was thinking this'd work would be : the bot answers to any lines where its name is mentioned ; and i can update its "brain" with a !^ url style command. whereby it replaces its "ai" code with the content of the file.
13:04 trinque well, doesn't parse. those are still privmsg iirc
13:04 mircea_popescu i've no interest in action and other such
13:05 ben_vulpes oh then it'd work for you as-is
13:06 mircea_popescu nice. so as an example, my first task would be to figure out how to instruct it to respond to messages only if there've been less than 12 lines spoken the past 15 minutes. that sort of thing.
13:06 trinque ben_vulpes: what I do need to do is release logbot-service.genesis
13:06 mircea_popescu subquestion : does teh esteemed lordship find itself inclined to tolerate the exercise ?
13:06 trinque and you'd extend that class for this
13:06 ben_vulpes trinque: aye
13:07 asciilifeform !#s popescutron
13:07 a111 13 results for "popescutron", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=popescutron
13:07 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: i'd rather read your experiments in lisp than php
13:07 ben_vulpes :D
13:07 mircea_popescu lol
13:07 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes nah the idea is, bot will attempt to learn from conversation. with, eg, you.
13:07 asciilifeform i had this itch 2+ yrs ago but my evil plan was to make it simply eat the collected works of mircea_popescu rather than explicit rules
13:08 mircea_popescu asciilifeform see, the sentiment is mutual - i want mine to eat you lot.
13:08 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: i mean to say "if it gets mircea_popescu to write and think in lisp its a worthwhile use of lines"
13:08 asciilifeform theoretically ought to work on anybody with large body of text. in practice, certain text works better than other
13:08 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes so therefore considering that you don't have to rewrite trinque's bot nor is a vps more than a few bux a month, dja got a counteroffer ? :D
13:08 asciilifeform (best if you have 'hooks', in this case infrequent words and phrases to latch onto)
13:09 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the idea is not without merit ; but i was gonna try an interactive slut.
13:09 asciilifeform also neato
13:09 mircea_popescu best i can tell the two aren't blocking each other in any way.
13:09 trinque ben_vulpes: so sounds like we should still consider doing the patch for raw messages, such that we don't have to build this atop out-of-date logbot-service
13:09 trinque I can give it some time next week
13:10 mircea_popescu ill go harvesting parantheses in the meanwhile so i have a few stacks
13:10 trinque loller
13:11 trinque deploying other people's code into a logbot service sounds pretty UCI to me
13:11 trinque I like it.
13:11 mircea_popescu chipping that way
13:11 * trinque afk for a while
13:12 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: counteroffer impending, rescuing dog food from child
13:12 mircea_popescu but... why
13:12 mircea_popescu gotta be cheaper than usual diet.
13:12 ben_vulpes nanners are pretty cheap
13:13 mircea_popescu this exercise promises in any case to be hopefully one of many in a new trend : $item for extremely intelligent people.
13:14 mircea_popescu enough with the "for idiots" bullshit.
13:15 mircea_popescu (i would like to thank the academy, the harem sluts, and phf / ben_vulpes discussions for inspiring me to come this far!)
13:15 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598258 << you know those guys that periodically stop by lisper venues, and they don't really program, but they want to use LISP to build an AI, because metacircularity of code is data is giving them mystical visions..?
13:15 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 17:32 asciilifeform: trinque: eh he's a veeery speshul trainflake, managed to read (if one is to believe) my compleateworx, and learn 0
13:16 phf presumably also read ~something~
13:16 asciilifeform phf: probably hofstadter
13:17 ben_vulpes lol omfg rescue dog food from child, only to be blessed by cries of anger when dog takes banana from child
13:18 ben_vulpes trainflake nice missed that on the first pass
13:18 mircea_popescu ahaha
13:18 mircea_popescu you're really better off letting them sort out their food themselves.
13:18 mircea_popescu just provide kanana an bibbles qs.
13:21 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598294 << scheme83 is like a "canticle for leibowitz" artifact. "published design" is overstatement of the century. scraps of published memos and reports spread over out of print conference proceedings, the bulk of actual technology needed to recreate probably somewhere on a TAPE. i don't know where you got that mask generator runs on scheme83. the entire production stack was for mit cadr
13:21 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 17:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'lisp trb' is sussman's 'scheme83' chip.
13:22 asciilifeform phf: yer wrong. i have whole thing in a 3ring here.
13:22 mircea_popescu blog it ?
13:23 phf are you talking about aim-514?
13:24 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598383 << reminds me of how i first chanced upon lisp. i was eighteen, more pretentious than now, and had eaten my first hashcake half an hour ago. i was reading esr, jumped to topic of lisp and homoiconicity, and was like... d0000d. this is how you penetrate the universe. knowwhatimsayin.
13:24 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 18:15 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598258 << you know those guys that periodically stop by lisper venues, and they don't really program, but they want to use LISP to build an AI, because metacircularity of code is data is giving them mystical visions..?
13:24 Framedragger luckily enough i realized i was on hash before i could quickly set up a blog in haskell and start writing stupid words about the singularity
13:25 Framedragger iirc same evening included me "really getting" dark side of the moon, "like really getting it you know?"; but eh, it was beautiful so can't complain.
13:26 mircea_popescu and speaking of canticle : anyone looking to write a sf piece in the a c clarke vein willing to model what'd happen if a lead comet the size of ceres showed up on a slow orbit ? at first, comet observed somewhere past kuipier belt, it's slow and dim. then, is it a comet or an asteroid ? then, measurements indicate it's much too dense. then, in timescales ever narrowing, its orbit turns out to be unsafe. then, as it collapses
13:26 mircea_popescu into the sun (which ideally should be done "safely", ie, perpendicular to planetary plane and away from earth-at-the-time, it... moderates it! so the sun cools. which is significant. story goes on.
13:26 mircea_popescu correctly modelling "what would happen to sun if chunk of lead hit it" is more of a "learn qm exercise" than most resources available.
13:27 mircea_popescu Framedragger i "really got it" coupla nights ago, out walking, splendid full moon with abendstar in opposition. and it was SO OBVIOUSLY a fucking planet, lit by the star in part that i really had nfi what people had been doing prior. it's fucking obvious omg!
13:28 mircea_popescu not like you can't SEE the whole sphere, and the dark part is dim but visible.
13:29 phf asciilifeform: because i have a paper by shrobe from 1982 vlsi conference (i could only find a hardcopy, been meaning to scan it), that explicitly says that data path generator was written for mit cadr, and that it opts the DPL code out of a gui environment. i haven't seen complete listing for DPL for the cpu either.
13:30 ben_vulpes in related occlusions: http://68.media.tumblr.com/f9c61a195d1bb7b6e3ed3a4dcc404f79/tumblr_ohozg1Qm4a1r6pbcio2_500.jpg
13:31 mircea_popescu the phase of the ovaries ?
13:31 ben_vulpes howl at the blood moon or something i have no iea
13:31 Framedragger mircea_popescu: ah, that's pretty cool. i see what you mean - you can see craters and the dark side still being the moon... collective delusion / cognitive dissonance something something! (and btw i meant the album but both work well in this instance..) :)
13:32 mircea_popescu incidentally, /me is not a great fan of tattoos, by which i mean the meaningless optional bs, not the actual tribal/prison stuff. however, from a purely aesthetic perspective, isn't there something fundamentally wrong with the blocky ones (ie, the ones with large monocolor chunks) ?
13:33 ben_vulpes aside from bespeaking poverty of taste and pocket?
13:33 mircea_popescu right.
13:34 phf they always look like somebody laid paint too thick while painting a metal shed
13:35 ben_vulpes subject of painting metal sheds, i just discovered "papercrete"
13:36 mircea_popescu phf and the effect is especially negative when the girl overdoes the make-up lines, as some girls do.
13:37 mircea_popescu "hey, wanna see my tattoo ?" "o wow, it looks like you did it yourself!"
13:38 ben_vulpes but stick and poke is so hip
13:38 ben_vulpes i'm down for scarification, but only the high-entropy kind that comes of abrading self against road
13:39 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: you want your code to run on every new message?
13:40 mircea_popescu if it includes bot's name.
13:40 cunnigonde !#s cunnigonde
13:40 a111 0 results for "cunnigonde", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=cunnigonde
13:40 cunnigonde should be safe enough.
13:45 asciilifeform phf: i'ma get back re subj after digging through the dead trees
13:47 phf asciilifeform: kk
13:49 Framedragger unrelated: http://flashbak.com/yugoslavian-computer-magazine-cover-girls-of-the-1980s-90s-370271/
13:50 Framedragger this one could be titled "the terror of the c machine" http://flashbak.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Ra%C4%8Dunari-1993_03_001.jpg
13:50 phf because ultimately chip was manufactured out of DPL files (described in aim-598) the whole deflayout/defregtype/defconst thing. i haven't seen ~that~ published anywhere
13:50 mircea_popescu Framedragger pet plus!
13:54 asciilifeform phf: i excavated my binder and found the item you had just linked. where dpl is described in approx same level of detail as eurisko's 'rtl' was in the lenatleaks thing. but i am now beginning to suspect that it got 'symbolicsized', e.g., subsumed into the properties they licensed from mit
13:54 asciilifeform and remains buried in indiana jones vault.
13:55 asciilifeform also it would astonish me if the build process did NOT depend on having a working cadr around
13:55 asciilifeform as the scheme83 chip was never put into commercial production and afaik existed never more than in handful qty.
13:56 phf well, shrobe went on to work at smbx, and used the evolution of the same stack to make an ivory. i wouldn't be surprised that's where the licensing went
13:57 asciilifeform iirc one of the 'death of symbolics' treatises went on at length about the follow of them NOT having made any attempt to market their chip synthesis stack as a commercial offering
13:57 phf (he i think published another paper on the subject of making lisp cpus, but with smbx as his @)
13:57 asciilifeform i have that paper. it was ~2pgs and about as useful as their sales brochure.
13:58 phf right, i think i was going to source it for completeness, but never bothered because of abstract.
13:58 asciilifeform it was not a wholly bad read, had chip die porn etc.
13:58 asciilifeform incidentally did phf ever post any of his smbx finds ?
13:59 phf i have a second trip scheduled for second week of march to finish the process
13:59 asciilifeform *about the folly of them
13:59 asciilifeform phf: neato
14:00 phf i'm treating it as an avocation, so i'm resigned to glacier speeds that all these people require
14:01 asciilifeform phf: no rush, it is not as if we had a chip fab in which to make clones, or even particularly want to make clone (i have 0 interest in perpetuating 20 years of mit undergrad young cocklet crapolade code)
14:01 phf problem is that our man never really had the code (certainly no "rights" to code), since i think that the asset split went something like "you get the body and you get the soul", and the guy with the soul is keeping it in his garage to "turn into millions one day one i retire" sort of thing.
14:01 asciilifeform some details of the low level arch might be interesting though.
14:02 asciilifeform all i got, for the most part, is what is in the wall-o-deadtree manuals, and what i gleaned from reversing 'snap4' binary in ida.
14:02 asciilifeform having the physical 3620, was, interestingly enough, ~useless.
14:03 asciilifeform phf: and i'm pretty sure that mallery is an nsa asset.
14:03 mircea_popescu what the fuck does he want the millions for.
14:03 mircea_popescu don't tell me "to sit on them for later"
14:03 asciilifeform he's sitting on'em for massah.
14:04 asciilifeform (a good chunk of the logistics code in u.s. dod that actually ~works~ runs on smbx. TO THIS DAY.)
14:05 asciilifeform the other d00d, who asciilifeform and phf both met, is schmidt, and he's a salt-of-the-earth mechanic sort of fella
14:05 asciilifeform 0 theory.
14:05 asciilifeform there is also a 3rd d00d, kalman reti, who i have not met nor know anyone who has
14:05 asciilifeform he's got the emulator src.
14:06 asciilifeform them 3, plus the 'customer' (handler) at fort somethingorother, makes all of modern-day symbolics corp.
14:06 asciilifeform afaik.
14:06 phf well, result of my work will be basically one step removed from useless :} no need for a logic analyzer, but still a gargantuan effort to make sense of architecture. smbx has opposite problem from scheme stack. there's the DPL, but there aren't any AIM-514 equivalents
14:06 asciilifeform at one point there was a probate judge involved also
14:06 asciilifeform but iirc that ended.
14:07 asciilifeform phf: i have indirect clues that there ~were~ docs, and superb ones at that
14:07 asciilifeform but all in indianajoneswarehouse nao.
14:08 mircea_popescu phf can you explain briefly and in short simple words management may be suspected of comprehending why do you think this is worth doing ?
14:16 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: customization aside, .13 for a year of hosting and .17 for a year of support and reboots?
14:16 mircea_popescu it's yours. addy ?
14:16 deedbot http://trilema.com/2017/postcards-from-retardistan/ << Trilema - Postcards from Retardistan
14:20 ben_vulpes http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/g5HjP/?raw=true
14:20 ben_vulpes i gotta do a food and battery run before these roads ice over, bbl
~ 29 minutes ~
14:49 netmonk for how long am i voiced ?
14:56 phf netmonk: you've upped yourself at some point, you should be voiced indefinitely
14:58 netmonk got it
15:00 gabriel_laddel_p http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598276 < because my connection gets dropped.
15:00 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 17:43 asciilifeform: but notice, he won't, like vampire avoids the sun
15:01 gabriel_laddel_p I was online ~everyday idk, ~2 years ago?
15:01 ben_vulpes gabriel_laddel_p: get with Framedragger just fix it
15:01 ben_vulpes deeds not words
15:01 gabriel_laddel_p yeah that's never going to happen.
15:01 ben_vulpes pardon?
15:02 gabriel_laddel_p I'm never going to use his bouncer.
15:02 gabriel_laddel_p Talk to you in a few months then.
15:03 phf mircea_popescu: it gives me a way to bring my knowledge and skill on par with people who invented computing, both on cs and ee sides. i keep one eye on a possiblity that i will be able to restart their work. in entirely hypothetical scenario of somebody coming to me and going "we want to build a personal computer that follows stan's 7 laws etc." i simply want to be able to do it from first principles. at worst there's going to be some
15:03 phf historical record of some of the systems decisions symbolics made, that somebody else might use.
15:03 Framedragger whatyougonnado.jpg ; fwiw gabriel_laddel_p i'd lend you a vps for a month for free (i wouldn't have access to it) just so that you'd stop pissing people off, but your call of course
15:03 mircea_popescu so archeology, basically.
15:04 netmonk i can provide shell
15:04 gabriel_laddel_p Framedragger: thanks, but pass. I don't deal with computers I cannot physically touch.
15:04 netmonk for 0.2 btc/y
15:04 mircea_popescu :)
15:04 phf basically :p
15:04 netmonk on freebsd
15:04 Framedragger admirable approach, but not very pragmatic. then again, pragmatic things can lead to bad places, too...
15:05 netmonk gabriel_laddel_p: you can touch the server if you can fly to paris
15:05 Framedragger (i don't really see why you'd have to trust this intermediary node, though)
15:05 netmonk and access dc3 equinix datacenter
15:06 ben_vulpes confuse ye not the promiscuous devices with the chaste devices or what was it
15:06 gabriel_laddel_p http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598267 < Thanks for reminding me. I don't trb, so went looking for them last time I was working on the LiveUSB, failed to find them and then continued working using the strategy I was prior.
15:06 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 17:38 asciilifeform: trinque: you can tell that d00d took 0 trouble to read, e.g., the pogo archives
15:07 ben_vulpes well having failed to extract the battery from the dead car i must now do the aforementioned food run but also to get a 10mm deep socket
15:08 davout win
15:08 ben_vulpes hola davout
15:08 davout bonjour!
15:09 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598485 << fwiw it is exactly why i was doing it, likewise.
15:09 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 20:03 phf: mircea_popescu: it gives me a way to bring my knowledge and skill on par with people who invented computing, both on cs and ee sides. i keep one eye on a possiblity that i will be able to restart their work. in entirely hypothetical scenario of somebody coming to me and going "we want to build a personal computer that follows stan's 7 laws etc." i simply want to be able to do it from first principles. at worst there's going to be some
15:09 asciilifeform medieval-style preservation.
15:10 netmonk and for 0.3 more i can provide openvpn
15:10 phf i think we should draw a line at illuminated schematics though
15:10 asciilifeform lolk
15:10 asciilifeform atm i'd settle for ~any~ useful schematics..
15:10 gabriel_laddel_p http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598292 < this is _the_ problem in the lisp world. Each and every lisper painfully recreates a sorta-similar environment over the course of years.
15:10 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 17:49 mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm not entirely up to speed re sad state of lisp world. i expect it's in the shitter, but not exactly clear how. is there any merit to the nude assertion that "lisp is a shittier thing than trb, because trb at least has SOMETHING that can be made into a musl ; whereas lisp does not" ?
15:11 asciilifeform phf: i also have some dead smbx 'xl' boards i got to decap & photo dies, but also never did it, and probably won't live long enough
15:11 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: for so long as the x86 idiocy persists, this will remain.
15:12 gabriel_laddel_p No? Because now Masamune exists and we can begin to address the other issues (such as x86) like adults?
15:13 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: did you ever get it to the point where it installs on hdd ?
15:13 gabriel_laddel_p asciilifeform: no
15:13 gabriel_laddel_p all installs are done by hand
15:14 asciilifeform uh
15:14 asciilifeform ok...
15:15 gabriel_laddel_p ^ Roughly my feelings on the matter, however CLIM is sufficiently enjoyable to distract from this.
15:18 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: while we have you on the line, plz consider taking a few min to explain the rationale for 'product is ready for selling' but at the same time 'video is not ready for public eye'
15:20 gabriel_laddel_p asciilifeform: I'm doing my best to keep it from the hands of idiots.
15:20 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: it gives an impression that , i suspect, you do not want
15:20 gabriel_laddel_p That being said, I should drop a version in here for the lordship
15:20 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: what do you suppose might happen if idiots were to get hold of a copy ?
15:21 gabriel_laddel_p asciilifeform: an ubuntu+sbcl+clim "masamune" gets released and promoted by the whole "lisp community" that lacks sources, macsyma, MJRCALC, MGL, etc
15:22 gabriel_laddel_p I prefer to have access to an untainted market.
15:22 asciilifeform why do you care what the idiots who would consider bastardized product may or may not do ?
15:23 asciilifeform if you ~actually need~ their money, your business model is already catastrophically ill-conceived.
15:23 gabriel_laddel_p I want every penny of commercial lisp code to be directed to republican pockets.
15:24 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: you want someone among the people here to work as your sales rep ? or wat
15:24 gabriel_laddel_p ???
15:25 netmonk damn i just realise it still exist people coding in lisp
15:25 asciilifeform well you did use phrase 'republican pockets' rather than ' gabriel_laddel_p's pockets '
15:25 netmonk awesome
15:26 gabriel_laddel_p asciilifeform: once I figure out how to do this USB replication things, I aim to see every that every lord / notable republican has a Masamune + the ability to replicate it.
15:26 danielpbarron http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598350 << I love it. babble bots are my favorite kind of bots
15:26 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 18:06 mircea_popescu: subquestion : does teh esteemed lordship find itself inclined to tolerate the exercise ?
15:26 gabriel_laddel_p Thus, they can sell Masamune and pocket whatever they're able to make.
15:26 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: entirely leaving aside the particulars of your product, i must confess that i get an impression that gabriel_laddel_p is not himself entirely certain yet how it is that he wants to do business, and with whom, on what terms.
15:27 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: consider posting, publicly, the ad film. if this enables 'idiot' to immediately replicate your work, then there was not so much to it, neh ?
15:28 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: notice, for example, that complete schematic, cpld, etc. for FUCKGOATS is posted on www.
15:28 gabriel_laddel_p asciilifeform: yeah, but FUCKGOATS has _lots_ of text, whereas this is a video.
15:28 gabriel_laddel_p idiots have an easier time with the latter.
15:29 gabriel_laddel_p Anyways, will encrypt a copy to the lordship and drop it in here today.
15:29 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: understand that 'this product is not for the public, it is for YOUR VEEERY SPESHUL EYES' patternmatches scamolade.
15:29 gabriel_laddel_p http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598267 < if you could point me to this archive it would be very helpful.
15:29 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 17:38 asciilifeform: trinque: you can tell that d00d took 0 trouble to read, e.g., the pogo archives
15:29 gabriel_laddel_p http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598270 < idem
15:29 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 17:39 trinque: aha, or your or my gentoo recipes
15:30 asciilifeform there is a very long history of this kind of nonsense that is ~very~ difficult to overlook.
15:30 gabriel_laddel_p asciilifeform: tough.
15:30 davout i really don't get this fascination with whatever idiots will do
15:30 gabriel_laddel_p davout: you've never wanted to do anything even remotely similar to what I aim to do.
15:30 gabriel_laddel_p if you want to discuss this in more detail, find me a blog I can post comments on without people bitching
15:31 asciilifeform gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-03#1421109 << the gentoo recipe thread.
15:31 a111 Logged on 2016-03-03 17:24 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://dpaste.com/3YZ2895.txt << preliminary crib sheet
15:31 asciilifeform diana_coman , iirc, tested.
15:31 asciilifeform possibly others.
15:31 mircea_popescu phf illuminated schematics with tits seems like a winning strat.
15:31 davout gabriel_laddel_p: i have no interested in taking part in anything for which whatever idiots do or do not do has any kind of bearing
15:32 asciilifeform !~later tell trinque repairs on phuctor are complete and the rss feed again consists strictly of genuinely-phuctored mods. the werker will be re-enabled tonight. it is safe to switch the feed back on.
15:32 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
15:32 davout http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598557 <<< this reduces to "i'm special, also reasons"
15:32 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 20:30 gabriel_laddel_p: davout: you've never wanted to do anything even remotely similar to what I aim to do.
15:32 gabriel_laddel_p davout: lol, you're french right?
15:33 davout no i'm a bot
15:35 mircea_popescu these aren't mutually exclusive.
15:36 netmonk :)
15:36 davout a bot that could randomly go on strike i guess
15:37 netmonk davout: from what i hear you left
15:37 netmonk France not so long ago
15:37 davout yes.
15:38 mircea_popescu i am surprised you two don't know each other.
15:38 mircea_popescu o, wait.
15:39 davout i don't know, maybe we do?
15:40 davout some peeps i meet irl but don't have a mapping to a nick
15:41 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598513 << the cause for this ridiculous situation, however, is very much described by the above discussion re symbolics. those were also people who aimed to install all lisp machines, by hand, in their own garage.
15:41 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 20:10 gabriel_laddel_p: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598292 < this is _the_ problem in the lisp world. Each and every lisper painfully recreates a sorta-similar environment over the course of years.
15:45 gabriel_laddel_p mircea_popescu: idk about that. Symbolics was a different beast with a different set of problems. But then again, I don't know that much about the people involved with Symbolics, so perhaps you are right.
15:46 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598536 << the btcbase logs run on lisp for instance. in fact #tmsr is afaik the largest lisp codebase in actual use (ignoring for a moment whatever portions of AWOG alf may wish to bring up).
15:46 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 20:25 netmonk: damn i just realise it still exist people coding in lisp
15:46 mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel_p well, let's put it this way - not a page of symbolics supposedly superb documentation did make it to republican coffers after all.
15:47 gabriel_laddel_p indeed.
15:48 gabriel_laddel_p I contend that the current "lisp community" is a bunch of fundamentally broken people, and that symbolics was a bunch of fundamentally broken people, but they're broken in different ways.
15:48 mircea_popescu anyway, entertaining the thing as you describe at face value : if indeed your concern is a sort of bastardization as conceptually constructible from the foregoing, then the correct move is to build your masamune on musl and attach a license that forbids the empire (such as for instance the trb license ; or else one stating to use must be in l2, or rated by you, or any such thing). this will mostly protect you both technically
15:48 mircea_popescu and legally, and i estimate the barriers would hold.
15:49 mircea_popescu then alf can run the thing ; and altman can't run the thing, both because he doesn't know how to and because he doesn't see any point in trying.
15:49 gabriel_laddel_p Sigh. Altman is probably going to end up with a version in his hands before alf.
15:49 mircea_popescu now, it may be that you don't know how to do this, but that's easier to solve than any other problem.
15:50 mircea_popescu netmonk did you see ben_vulpes 's lisp implementation of V ?
15:52 mircea_popescu kinda neat concept this, incidentally : "license is hereby granted to run this software to and only to those parties who have been wot-rated by $author".
15:55 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598539 << i'm curious how this'd work.
15:55 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 20:26 gabriel_laddel_p: asciilifeform: once I figure out how to do this USB replication things, I aim to see every that every lord / notable republican has a Masamune + the ability to replicate it.
15:55 mircea_popescu might be ~same as the above musl, i suppose on a curated gentoo.
15:57 mircea_popescu truth be told we're so far into it i can't say in confidence i even fully understand what masamune ~actually is~. this is a sad state of affairs.
~ 16 minutes ~
16:13 ben_vulpes "awog" == "america was once great"?
16:14 ben_vulpes !!up gabriel_laddel_p
16:14 deedbot gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
16:14 danielpbarron http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598562 << i have tested many many times. works very well
16:14 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 20:31 asciilifeform: possibly others.
16:15 ben_vulpes gabriel_laddel_p: you may continue to comment on my blog, others may continue to bitch, there is no pleasing everyone
16:16 netmonk mircea_popescu: im discovering it
16:18 gabriel_laddel_p asciilifeform: check your PMs.
16:19 netmonk i used to program in RPL on my hp48 back in the day, does that count ? :)
16:19 phf (in unrelated tooling, mc is handy. i can see why asciilifeform still uses it. you can go pretty far with the whole ofm paradigm, combine it with unix underneath, etc.)
16:21 gabriel_laddel_p phf: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bznn0f9Mk3KAZTc3blZPVVg2QU0/view?usp=sharing
16:21 phf ty
16:22 gabriel_laddel_p ^ the whole lordship should be able to decrypt it on the off chance you're curious.
16:26 gabriel_laddel_p pete_dushenski: what do you think of the recent porsche cayennes?
16:33 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes exactly.
16:34 mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel_p so what is this stick business, a tailored gentoo + masamune ?
16:34 gabriel_laddel_p mircea_popescu: "stick business"? You are referring to the analogy from ascii earlier?
16:35 mircea_popescu no you said you're trying to get a stick replication ?
16:37 gabriel_laddel_p Oh right. Masamune is a gentoo (no systemd) curated for (sbcl) lisp development only. It offers graphics, CAS & other mathematical libs all in the same lisp process.
16:37 gabriel_laddel_p One of the features I need to complete is replication, which is to say: "A single procedure call being all that is necessary to bundle the entirety of the (possibly heavily modified) sources into a redistributable bootable USB stick installer or network download. "
16:38 mircea_popescu and this is for some reason mroe than a dozen lines of bash, for instance ?
16:38 gabriel_laddel_p Yes. For one, I can't create a working livecd. Secondly, it should not touch your personal files when replicating.
16:39 gabriel_laddel_p If you know the dozen lines of bash that will do this, do tell.
16:39 mircea_popescu holy hell ?!
16:39 gabriel_laddel_p I was working from https://www.phenix.bnl.gov/~purschke/RescueCD/
16:40 mircea_popescu are you using what, grub ?
16:41 gabriel_laddel_p syslinux/extlinux
16:41 mircea_popescu for a bootloader i meant
16:43 mircea_popescu in my own mind, it's just unsquash the image, impose a portage on it / make other customisations and resquash it. at least that's how it ~should~ work what the everloving fuck.
16:43 gabriel_laddel_p syslinux is the bootloader
16:43 gabriel_laddel_p and it works fine. The problem is in this "image" business.
16:44 gabriel_laddel_p I cannot create an image that comes with all the required goodies without breaking something or other.
16:44 * mircea_popescu never used syslinux
16:44 mircea_popescu oh, as in dependency hell ?
16:45 mircea_popescu and in other "bad posture nudity", http://68.media.tumblr.com/aa8ea46ba42d57de36de74c7e0746ddf/tumblr_o2u4g9AyWj1qh70jeo9_1280.jpg
16:47 gabriel_laddel_p mircea_popescu: something like that. There are a whole slew of issues: the init that Martin ships works fine, but if I substitute my own init - breaks. Among a million other things I have don't understand, such as
16:47 mircea_popescu it might be a good idea to write all these down ; there's a decent chance people here may read, and a not negligible chance at least one knows why it fails.
16:47 gabriel_laddel_p when creating my image, why must I copy using cp -dpR /somedir/* /someotherdir/ rather than the -a flag?
16:49 mircea_popescu i suspect because of full/relative dirnames.
16:49 mircea_popescu -a = -dR
16:51 BingoBoingo ty mircea_popescu about maximally long but oh so lulzy
16:51 mircea_popescu accepted ? cool.
16:52 BingoBoingo acceptit
16:52 mircea_popescu no sauce for it, either, because well... sikrit infoz.
16:52 deedbot http://qntra.net/2017/01/the-fourth-reich-grips-berlin/ << Qntra - The Fourth Reich Grips Berlin
16:52 mircea_popescu which only adds to the amusement -- got data about what they plan to do in case data leaks which has been now leaked.
~ 19 minutes ~
17:11 asciilifeform lol germanpublic
17:12 asciilifeform which one 'won't stand for it', the bearded d00dz enjoying themselves on rapesafari, or the chix ?
17:13 asciilifeform or is there a storehouse with actual germans still in it, in cryostorage, next to the nazi ufo and atomic bell ?
17:17 mircea_popescu how should i know!
17:17 ben_vulpes gentoo car quest complete
17:17 ben_vulpes battery tie nuts were so solidly adhesed to the ties that the rod snapped
17:17 ben_vulpes joy
17:18 mod6 rusted?
17:18 ben_vulpes yeah
17:18 ben_vulpes even the mighty pblaster could not free them
17:18 mod6 ah
17:18 ben_vulpes granted it's 30F out
17:19 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: do you want an ircbot to play with "now" and migration to trinque's new shiny be damned or do you want to wait for the new shiny?
17:20 mircea_popescu no rush.
17:20 ben_vulpes new shiny entails capture of everything that comes out of irc servers and service/command module
17:20 mircea_popescu i only have a vague idea of what im gonna do with it anyway, will clarify in time.
17:20 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes i really only need it to see when it's highlighted and talk back.
17:21 ben_vulpes sure, gotcha
17:23 ben_vulpes bbl spawn awakens
17:27 mircea_popescu BingoBoingo : s/Washington alone/<a href=http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-19#928005>Washington alone</a>/ ?
17:27 a111 Logged on 2014-11-19 01:50 decimation: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-23/german-gold-stays-in-new-york-in-rebuff-to-euro-doubters.html << " “The Americans are taking good care of our gold,” Norbert Barthle, the budget spokesman for Merkel’s Christian Democratic bloc in parliament, said in an interview. “Objectively, there’s absolutely no reason for mistrust.” " lol
17:33 netmonk no reason for mistrust
17:34 netmonk but trust isnt mutually excluded with control
17:34 mircea_popescu feminine pov. if you're a herd animal, trust === control.
17:35 mircea_popescu which is exactly what a colony is : a female state.
17:43 gabriel_laddel_p http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598397 < if you think haskell is of the same family of lisp you understood nothing.
17:43 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 18:24 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598383 << reminds me of how i first chanced upon lisp. i was eighteen, more pretentious than now, and had eaten my first hashcake half an hour ago. i was reading esr, jumped to topic of lisp and homoiconicity, and was like... d0000d. this is how you penetrate the universe. knowwhatimsayin.
17:44 gabriel_laddel_p also rust is for retards.
17:44 gabriel_laddel_p less hash, more sitting at a lisp REPL
17:45 Framedragger take it easy friend, things can be said and appreciated in jest :)
17:45 gabriel_laddel_p no, it can't
17:45 gabriel_laddel_p die painfully
17:52 Framedragger this reminds me of when i earnestly tried to pull a "do you even positivism" russell's teapot "prove it" on mp re. his claims on Tor
17:52 gabriel_laddel_p !!down Framedragger
17:52 deedbot gabriel_laddel_p may not !!down Framedragger.
17:55 Framedragger well, i'm sorry if i angered you, did not intend that :)
17:56 gabriel_laddel_p !!rate Framedragger -10 useless
17:56 deedbot Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/2hBgV/?raw=true
17:56 gabriel_laddel_p !!v 09D7D2552E4291B91E5F21B3D7554D23373D9A2A44FF5B185ED693978F70E818
17:56 deedbot gabriel_laddel_p rated Framedragger -10 << useless
18:05 gabriel_laddel_p http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598584 < google flights probably has a bigger LoC count.
18:05 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 20:46 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598536 << the btcbase logs run on lisp for instance. in fact #tmsr is afaik the largest lisp codebase in actual use (ignoring for a moment whatever portions of AWOG alf may wish to bring up).
18:06 gabriel_laddel_p http://rigetti.com/ < USG.MAGA also uses CL, though I'm not clear on the particulars atm
18:08 gabriel_laddel_p my mistake: usg.altman, not usg.maga
18:14 gabriel_laddel_p http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598589 < http://btcbase.org/log/2015-05-23#1144189
18:14 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 20:48 mircea_popescu: anyway, entertaining the thing as you describe at face value : if indeed your concern is a sort of bastardization as conceptually constructible from the foregoing, then the correct move is to build your masamune on musl and attach a license that forbids the empire (such as for instance the trb license ; or else one stating to use must be in l2, or rated by you, or any such thing). this will mostly protect you both technically
18:14 a111 Logged on 2015-05-23 06:52 gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes in particular it's unclear to me how wise the "licenses" angle is for a serenissima derivative. while i declined to anull IP when diametric asked earlier, i am very very far from any sort of belief that the current model of that stack of stupidity has any sort of hope for survival. << i figured (perhaps stupi
18:14 gabriel_laddel_p adlai: bored and want to do something useful?
18:14 adlai sure, why not
18:15 gabriel_laddel_p adlai: got a gentoo machine sitting around?
18:15 adlai no, and my trb node never finished syncing either
18:15 gabriel_laddel_p adlai: mk. what distro do you use?
18:15 adlai the haemorraging-edge one, dome linoks
18:16 adlai and some sorta bsd but i don't own the iron
18:16 gabriel_laddel_p adlai: what runs on the machine that is actually sitting on your lap
18:16 adlai gabriel_laddel_p: read my lisp: arch linux
18:17 adlai also, don't laptop literally, that literally kills the sperm
18:18 gabriel_laddel_p adlai: well it seems I can't have you do what I had in mind. Could you instead please review http://homepage.divms.uiowa.edu/~jones/ternary/ and work out some basic ternery circuts for the eventual loper machine?
18:19 gabriel_laddel_p All simulations should be written in CL.
18:20 gabriel_laddel_p adlai: some further food for thought
18:20 gabriel_laddel_p https://web.williams.edu/Mathematics/sjmiller/public_html/105Sp10/addcomments/Hayes_ThirdBase.htm
18:20 gabriel_laddel_p http://www.mortati.com/glusker/fowler/ternary.htm
18:21 gabriel_laddel_p http://www.mortati.com/glusker/fowler/ternary.htm
18:21 * adlai hopes gabriel_laddel_p has no dead line in mind
18:21 gabriel_laddel_p err,
18:21 gabriel_laddel_p https://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2014/08/11/optalysys-and-optical-computing/
18:22 adlai (also you seem to vastly overestimate my competence, which is fine - a common mistake. others here seem to have a better idea of it)
18:22 gabriel_laddel_p adlai: what is a deadline?
18:22 mircea_popescu ah google has an airfinder thing too ? had no idea. apparently written in cl indeed.
18:22 * adlai tells that one story about the math teacher that drew a line on the blackboard, then fisted it to uproars from the audience
18:22 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: they bought it (acquihire) for ~$1B
18:23 gabriel_laddel_p adlai: you're plenty smart, and could be useful if you'd work on useful stuff.
18:23 asciilifeform a while ago.
18:23 adlai gabriel_laddel_p: what is a use?
18:23 gabriel_laddel_p nevermind
18:23 gabriel_laddel_p !!down adlai
18:23 deedbot gabriel_laddel_p may not !!down adlai.
18:23 gabriel_laddel_p !!rate -10 adlai useless
18:23 * deedbot hands you a broomstick.
18:23 mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha. doesn't seem to be going anywhere, iirc they also bought matrix, and never integrated
18:24 adlai gabriel_laddel_p: protip, don't drink and rate
18:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the air tickets thing -- worx, i've used it many times, fwiw.
18:24 mircea_popescu i generally use either girl-who-works-at-agency or else expedia.
18:25 adlai mircea_popescu: iiuc qpx is the ~one~ proggy google did not rewrite in blub after it landed in their laps
18:26 adlai gabriel_laddel_p: fwiw, i intend to finish the hardcopy of hacker's delight that landed in my life before properly digesting the links you sent me, but out of politeness, i will skim them first.
18:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: according to dan weinreb (who died a couplea years ago; was one of the key smbx folx, and then -- much later -- also the orbitz air tickets thing) wrote (on his www, that is now vanished, though archive.org might have snapshot),
18:28 adlai !!v 41106D515B449ED8C50D122247FA7FD94F5EFBBB021FD9CEDF6E9A9D8FD72EF4
18:28 deedbot adlai rated gabriel_laddel_p 1 << likely impostor until verified otherwise, still needs a bouncer; otoh, talks plenty smart.
18:28 asciilifeform that orbitz was only 1 foot in lisp planet, and had the most cpu-intensive piece in cpp.
18:29 phf wut
18:29 asciilifeform aha.
18:29 * adlai has lots of logs to catch up before amending the rating.
18:32 gabriel_laddel_p adlai: anyways, iirc hackers delight is a bunch of tricks for binary machines. I see no reason why you shouldn't just skip it.
18:33 gabriel_laddel_p also, if you could locate the precise knuth book where he discusses balanced ternery, and then find me a warez copy, that would be useful
18:33 gabriel_laddel_p chop chop.
18:34 netmonk not so difficult to find taocp on bittorrent
18:35 gabriel_laddel_p netmonk: I've been ignoring everything you've said because it is clear you've not read 6 months of logs.
18:35 phf actually it would be nice if somebody were to warez the cross referenced version of taocp that was produced by tug. stuff that's on bittorent is junk
18:35 gabriel_laddel_p netmonk: start here: http://trilema.com/2014/a-compendium-of-basic-points-about-bitcoin-for-the-benefit-of-various-confused-noobs/
18:36 netmonk gabriel_laddel_p: that's a valid reason currently
18:36 ben_vulpes chop chop lol the stones on this guy
18:36 gabriel_laddel_p netmonk: then come back after a month or so and we'll see if we can have an actual conversation.
18:37 netmonk gabriel_laddel_p: alright, but still, it's not so difficult to find it on bittorrent
18:37 gabriel_laddel_p netmonk: try reading my message again.
18:37 gabriel_laddel_p netmonk: also, I can't torrent anything atm
18:38 gabriel_laddel_p netmonk: I don't want all of them (well, I do, but nevermind that) - I want the specific book & page number where knuth discusses balanced ternery.
18:38 gabriel_laddel_p netmonk: and a copy of the book
18:40 netmonk gabriel_laddel_p: first part of your request is basic google search : https://www.google.fr/search?espv=2&biw=2131&bih=998&tbm=bks&q=the+art+of+computer+programming++balanced+ternery&oq=the+art+of+computer+programming++balanced+ternery&gs_l=serp.3..30i10k1.2454.6331.0.6536.14.13.1.0.0.0.327.1357.10j2j0j1.13.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..1.6.461.HHB-vlpZ1EQ
18:48 adlai http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-06#1597346 << 09:13:20 adlai | one could argue a lot of things, such as "miners should voluntarily reduce the block size, to drive up fees, and then increase the block
18:48 a111 Logged on 2017-01-06 06:27 ben_vulpes: eh, the leaving of free money on the ground baffles me.
18:48 adlai | size gradually enough that users don't realize they can pay lower fees again"
18:50 asciilifeform adlai: there is an even simpler plausible hypothesis - that it is simply easier to build the massive blockwithhold-chains the cartel builds, if one does ~not~ include wild tx-en in'em
18:51 asciilifeform (easier in the sense that the perpetrator does not risk having his withholdchain invalidated by a 'wild' tx being included twice (dun ask me why this would be a concern, but we DO know that they program with arse muscles) or conceivably mined by another
18:51 asciilifeform )
18:51 adlai how's it go... "hidden are the devil's machinations" (rough transation of "nistarot hen darkei ha'el")
18:59 gabriel_laddel_p http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598709< jesus fuck. I somehow misread this as anything other than "deadline".
18:59 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 23:21 adlai hopes gabriel_laddel_p has no dead line in mind
19:01 gabriel_laddel_p adlai: anyways, to that point, there is no deadline for any of this, but your updates should be ~weekly and you should be working on it 6hrs+ a day if you want your life to amount to anything.
~ 32 minutes ~
19:33 mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel_p it's ternary not ternery.
19:34 gabriel_laddel_p Godamnnit. I fucking _hate_ whiteboards and these stupid fucking "air fresheners" they stick all over the place.
19:34 phf gabriel_laddel_p: have you tried resurrecting (?) beirc, seems like a proper tmsr machine needs an irc client
19:34 gabriel_laddel_p What _exactly_ was so wrong with blackboards that they had to be done away with?
19:34 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the mined by another is probably the operative concern.
19:34 gabriel_laddel_p that they worked?
19:35 mircea_popescu gabriel_laddel_p people get exposure chalk dust allergy.
19:35 * gabriel_laddel_p can barely resist the urge to stick "google toxic encephalopathy" under each air freshener I find.
19:36 gabriel_laddel_p for the record, does anyone know of an intelligent person who uses air fresheners/fabreez?
19:37 gabriel_laddel_p phf: it works fine.
19:38 gabriel_laddel_p phf: ships with masamune.
19:38 phf ah, k. i just keep seeing kiwiirc in your quit
19:38 gabriel_laddel_p phf: you dun want to know about my life situation...
19:39 gabriel_laddel_p phf: anyways, I have suggested using a +v irc channel + CL-FTP + beirc as a "CLIM-web" so we can ditch the browser tomorrow
19:39 gabriel_laddel_p Framedragger was supposed to put this together, but (surprise) has not.
19:39 gabriel_laddel_p adlai: ^ another thing you can do. The patch to fix CL-FTP is in the logs.
19:40 Framedragger i was not supposed to do anything gabriel_laddel_p. stop with the passive aggressive tone already, it's annoying
19:41 phf wait how does cl-ftp ties into ircing?
19:41 adlai gabriel_laddel_p: please don't give me makework, it's more than enough to have received a rootset of (what's the word that means what 'people' actually mean when they say 'hopefully'?) useful material.
19:42 gabriel_laddel_p phf: instead of having "web applications" we have a +v, invite only irc channel where our CL programs communicate. Well-formed messages are treated as FTP endpoints to download arbitrary information.
19:42 gabriel_laddel_p ditch the whole stupidity of "caching" the web, local storage etc
19:42 gabriel_laddel_p just download the DB along with the UI.
19:42 * adlai thinks gabriel_laddel_p would make an excellent phb
19:43 adlai nothing passive nor aggressive about this, just plain old fact.
19:43 gabriel_laddel_p and a bot you can "deedbot" a networked program to
19:44 phf heh
19:45 adlai http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598410 << at the risk of furthering the thread on harmonic interferometry, you don't "get" dsotm until you "hear" (not with teh ears, but in the heart, or wherever the pineal gland lives these days) the 251
19:45 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 18:31 Framedragger: mircea_popescu: ah, that's pretty cool. i see what you mean - you can see craters and the dark side still being the moon... collective delusion / cognitive dissonance something something! (and btw i meant the album but both work well in this instance..) :)
19:47 adlai gabriel_laddel_pm | http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598715 < also, it sounds like you might have been sorely miseducated your entire life. << whaddya want, he was a populist; yet in his defense, he was my first math^H^Harithmetic teacher who... how do i put this, had a mentor relationship with his charges rather than just "these are the numbers, these are their sums"
19:47 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 23:22 adlai tells that one story about the math teacher that drew a line on the blackboard, then fisted it to uproars from the audience
19:47 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: mnemnion_ is back
19:48 adlai oh, the right word is 'algebra'. dude taught me algebra.
19:48 ben_vulpes beirc shits itself when i run it naively. complaints re no generic function for cl-irc:nickname or the like
19:49 phf ...
19:49 ben_vulpes i have nfi dude
19:50 * adlai ceasefires re:glp until he has something to show for himself (all for antecedent superpositions are valid)
19:51 adlai !~later tell gabriel_laddel_p and fwiw, i have somewhere in my desk-mess a whiteboard+eraser that make beatiful love without any solvents
19:51 jhvh1 adlai: The operation succeeded.
19:56 mircea_popescu dude srsly ?
19:58 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598778 << how did you get this idea then ?
19:58 a111 Logged on 2017-01-08 00:39 gabriel_laddel_p: Framedragger was supposed to put this together, but (surprise) has not.
20:01 Framedragger i told gabriel i'd be interested in reviewing clim-web etc.; he sent me a very nice email with instructions incl. setup; this was 20 dec; i didn't have time to look at it.
20:01 mircea_popescu a ok.
20:04 Framedragger ("supposed" and "putting this together" is really stretching it, but i agree that "hey i didn't commit to anything" is a really shitty attitude, of the same kind as "i hacked up loggotron but it's bad lol")
20:05 mircea_popescu i dunno why he expects "i'll act like mp" will work for him, but i guess it's worth a shot.
20:07 ben_vulpes not necessarily that shitty of an attitude in this case Framedragger
20:08 ben_vulpes anything other than "yeah i'll get right on it" is a "no" in my book
20:08 Framedragger true. and treating it differently leads to mismatched expectations.
20:09 ben_vulpes now if gabriel_laddel_p has returned to say "omfg you said you would" the fun continues!
20:09 ben_vulpes !!up gabriel_laddel_p
20:09 deedbot gabriel_laddel_p voiced for 30 minutes.
20:09 phf slow night on tmsr
20:09 mircea_popescu more voice more voice have a look 'an here we go
20:10 ben_vulpes hey ovh why does it take more than fifteen seconds to charge a cc? what do you use, bitcoin?
20:10 * adlai is confused, can't the _p-erson up itself?
20:10 gabriel_laddel_p http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598796 < if only there were some system you could buy where everything worked out of the box.
20:10 a111 Logged on 2017-01-08 00:48 ben_vulpes: beirc shits itself when i run it naively. complaints re no generic function for cl-irc:nickname or the like
20:10 ben_vulpes gabriel_laddel_p: omg come back with a reproducible build
20:10 gabriel_laddel_p mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1570093 < and here
20:10 a111 Logged on 2016-11-18 21:39 Framedragger: gabriel_laddel: i don't have much free time now, either. maybe end of next week, at this rate. re. CLIM web - any notes / writeup to help? as in, 20min of your time to save some hours of my time while helping you?
20:10 mod6 evenin'
20:11 mircea_popescu buenas tardes senor
20:11 mod6 Hola Senor Popescu!
20:11 gabriel_laddel_p http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598800 < proof by counterexample works I suppose.
20:11 a111 Logged on 2017-01-08 00:51 adlai: !~later tell gabriel_laddel_p and fwiw, i have somewhere in my desk-mess a whiteboard+eraser that make beatiful love without any solvents
20:11 mircea_popescu donde son los albondigalitas
20:12 mod6 It's like 7 deg. F., but I just grilled some awesome cheddarworst on the grill. Damn they were good.
20:12 Framedragger ben_vulpes: iirc with ovh, paypal sometimes doesn't clear till next business day. possibly same with CC. needs to be checked manually. if you raise a ticket with them they'll tell you that, and nothing will get fast-tracked. :/
20:12 mircea_popescu everything i hear about ovh makes me think it's a french company.
20:13 gabriel_laddel_p ben_vulpes: you realize that there will be a price hike after this is complete correct?
20:13 gabriel_laddel_p ben_vulpes: it was 200, then 300, now 410
20:13 mod6 what about for me? can i still pay 200?
20:13 mod6 :D
20:14 ben_vulpes gabriel_laddel_p: you realize that every day you continue faffing about like this the odds anyone here will pay one red cent for masamune goes down?
20:14 phf mod6: will be selling it on ebay for 5k "collector edition ma-sa-mu-ne" in 40 years
20:14 Framedragger verifying ovh downtime is sometimes a matter of deciphering french tweets from this octave guy https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000515962445/dbcf2529f787de1233a72011d216d992_400x400.jpeg straight from french cinema
20:15 ben_vulpes it was low, then you lost your key, now i don't even wat
20:15 mod6 i actually kinda wanna test this guy out
20:16 mod6 but yah, wtf with the key, etc?
20:16 mircea_popescu Framedragger butter sauce. i can tell by the liver-shot eyes and the wattle.
20:16 gabriel_laddel_p ben_vulpes: it wasn't for sale at any point when I had the old key, but I suppose that's just "faffing"
20:16 gabriel_laddel_p ben_vulpes: incidentally, if I'm wasting my time here with Framedragger and adali, can you also negrate them so they can be put !!down?
20:17 ben_vulpes gabriel_laddel_p: you're the one damaging snr tonight
20:17 mircea_popescu wait, he's actually serious ?
20:17 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: it boggles.
20:17 gabriel_laddel_p mircea_popescu: but of course
20:18 mircea_popescu listen, take a break. all this "work" you do on computers is getting in the way of your life.
20:18 mircea_popescu it'll still be here next year.
20:20 mircea_popescu and in other boating girls, http://68.media.tumblr.com/2088dfe8c6c6bbf2200fbfeb3706c352/tumblr_o2u4g9AyWj1qh70jeo10_1280.jpg
20:22 mod6 someday...
20:24 mod6 but yeah, im not gonna live on some boat like rud00d, but would be into taking her out for daily runs of piracy and vaginal stabbings
20:25 mircea_popescu boat is never as cramped as when the four resident girls get their cramps.
20:25 mod6 yah, im with you. i don't think i could deal with being at sea, indefiniately.
20:25 ben_vulpes lotsa jewesses today mircea_popescu
20:25 mod6 for a short trip, fuck yea. otherwise, no.
20:26 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes can you tell by the length of the penis ?
20:26 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski ahahaha waterbatgh eh ?
20:30 mircea_popescu mod6 as friend once said, "solitary confinment is just great - i take one just about every time i go to the john."
20:30 mod6 hahah
20:34 mod6 when reading "Snow Crash" this year, and after Hanjin went bankrupt, was thinkin, "sure, could buy some of those things... tie 'em together and start an ``ark''". but who would wanna basically live at sea for years on end?
20:34 mircea_popescu well it has the advantage that you can piss out the window.
20:35 mod6 aha, ya, well, 'tis true.
20:36 mircea_popescu also in red cup news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/0511676a0cdec1e72600da644c703a8d/tumblr_nxy4dmDkF21uw9prro1_1280.jpg
20:37 mod6 I like this Red Cup news.
20:37 mod6 also, is that Col. Kilgore?!
20:37 mircea_popescu may be the antivirus guy
20:38 mircea_popescu what was his name
20:38 mircea_popescu mctoffee or something
20:38 mod6 ah ya
20:41 mod6 Anyway, nice chatting for a minute ... but I better get back to work :]
20:41 mod6 will check in later.
~ 18 minutes ~
21:00 ben_vulpes phf: consider making http://btcbase.org/patches/*/seal/ return a plaintext list of seals?
21:00 phf like all the seals?
21:01 ben_vulpes for the * patch
21:02 phf sounds good
21:02 ben_vulpes also if you'd be so kind as to add http://cascadianhacker.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/2017_cleanup.vpatch to your tree i'd be much obliged. if the hopper is working again just let me know and i'll dump vpatches in there
21:02 ben_vulpes the link with both patch and seal is http://cascadianhacker.com/overall-improvements
21:02 ben_vulpes thank yew!
21:05 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: haha yup, the wild west needs a wittle washing ;) and ty for the qntra ups, might've been the first time BingoBoingo actually used my suggested title!
21:06 phf ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/patches/2017_cleanup
21:07 pete_dushenski !~later tell gabriel_laddel_p "what do you think of the recent porsche cayennes?" << if you're thinking of one as a residence, i could see it.
21:07 jhvh1 pete_dushenski: The operation succeeded.
21:07 phf i still have an issue of global namespace for vpatches. i'm not yet sure that they need namespacing. it's sort of inconsequential for when you do your own press, but in terms of permanent urls you have the first come first served problem..
21:08 ben_vulpes phf: saw it, gracias!
21:08 ben_vulpes phf: aye
21:08 pete_dushenski also, dear republic, laocoon (62.113.203.216) is back online, relaying better and more widely than ever. sorry for any inconvenience.
21:10 ben_vulpes heh
21:10 ben_vulpes i left -verifyall in my node's boot script for some reason, took me a minute to figure out why it was taking forever to reboot the other day
21:11 ben_vulpes strace showed LOTS OF FUCKING READS which got me thinking in the right direction
21:12 pete_dushenski Framedragger: can you shed some light on how exactly scriba archives ? wondering if my little 'medium trick' has any merit at all or is merely a duplication of effort if links are dropped in-chan
21:13 pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: how much faster is boot w/o --verifyall ?
21:15 ben_vulpes couldn't tell ya, i killed the process and ran it again without the flag in question
21:15 ben_vulpes did you ever grok what i said about kill -9?
21:15 ben_vulpes you can nuke a stuck node in place without having to restart the whole machine.
21:15 pete_dushenski o ya, sorry for not answering directly but yes, grokked
21:15 ben_vulpes groovy, nbd
21:16 phf (psa: will corrupt data with higher probability)
21:16 ben_vulpes didn't like the thought of you wasting your time on operating system reboots
21:16 pete_dushenski phf: which will ?
21:16 ben_vulpes yeah phf makes a point: kill -9 can hose data.
21:16 phf well, both
21:17 ben_vulpes ah
21:17 pete_dushenski sure
21:17 phf i think if you shutdown kernel will give a grace period to stuck userspace processes and then kill 9 it anyway
21:21 pete_dushenski in other groks, http://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/japans-new-business-language-english
21:22 pete_dushenski "Japan's population is ageing. Our economy is slowing. We are not producing enough coders and digital gurus. The only way we can catch up and restore growth and dynamism is by looking outside our borders for talent.
21:23 pete_dushenski " << doesn't quite jive with mackenzie's experience as to the availability of coders but gotta sow the seeds of propaganda that 'japan is falling behind' when in fact seiko, toyota, yonex, panasonic, and more are all leading their fields globally
21:25 pete_dushenski one can only attribute the electronic reliability of toyotas and hondas to the availability of ~the right kind~ of coders in japan. compare and contrast with those of us or germany, it'd be a hoot.
21:27 phf that gwern's paper that i linked indirectly explains what's "right" kind of coder, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-08#1580059
21:27 a111 Logged on 2016-12-08 23:21 phf: and on the subject of japan and doing things right, gwern wrote about internet culture in japan http://www.gwern.net/The%20Melancholy%20of%20Subculture%20Society#japan-and-the-internet he got everything wrong, but the subject is interesting
21:27 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598886 << in general it should be tree_author_arbitraryname ; that resolves the namespace issue i expect
21:27 a111 Logged on 2017-01-08 02:07 phf: i still have an issue of global namespace for vpatches. i'm not yet sure that they need namespacing. it's sort of inconsequential for when you do your own press, but in terms of permanent urls you have the first come first served problem..
21:28 mircea_popescu so that it's trb_mod6_doesgirlsonboats.vpatch vs vtron_phf_addsnamespaces.vpatch. no conflict possible.
21:31 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski verifyall actually rechecks the chain. takes potentially hours.
21:32 mircea_popescu phf ben_vulpes : it won't corrupt anything if the berkley db is ran in "detached" mode, which it prolly should be. i don't recall if we put this in the trb or not.
21:32 adlai http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-06#1597363 << please excuse the nitpick, but given this thread, 'tree' is a misnomer.
21:32 a111 Logged on 2017-01-06 06:36 mircea_popescu: anyway, the problem of "how to sort two patches which alter entirely disjuncts subsets of the file set" is not exactly clear. unless they declare how they prefer to be sorted.
21:32 mircea_popescu how do you reason ?
21:34 * adlai should probably provide an example instead of babbling, but: it's possible to produce distinct antecedents for the same patch
21:34 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski fortunately nobody gives a flying fuck what esl speakers say on any topic. this is very deeply difficult for the selfsame esltards to grok, but it DOES explain why trilema is more widely read than nytimes.
21:35 pete_dushenski linguistic sluts ftw
21:35 mircea_popescu adlai in general, patch says who its antecedents are.
21:35 ben_vulpes ah, the "roots" thread?
21:35 phf the read part of the story is vapid, but the unread part is more interesting, and therefore will be completely missed by the target audience of that article: somewhere in the world, there's a corporation that can change its ~internal communications language~ because the ceo said so
21:35 mircea_popescu no, this'd be different ; that was about adding references ~in the files~ as comments ; this is about the patches (ie, diffs)
21:36 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: patch says what antecedent file hashes it stemmed from, no?
21:36 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes nah, different layers.
21:36 adlai patches state what state their antecedents must produce, but they don't commit to the antecedent itself
21:36 phf adlai: i agree, it's a general graph, rather than a tree, has loops etc.
21:37 mircea_popescu phf this has happened before. specifically the guy recently named in log, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584020
21:37 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 13:42 mircea_popescu: incidentally, speaking of nothing in particular, everyone heard of carlos ghosn ? quite the fellow.
21:37 mircea_popescu adlai yes, in that formulation it could be linked to the antecedent-in-file thread.
21:39 mircea_popescu anyway, the reason it's a tree is ~because we say so~, not because in and of itself it ~is~. there's no way for a pile of code to be a tree outside of the will of the people writing code.
21:40 pete_dushenski phf: aha cheers. saw the link but didn't read the gwern piece. will now.
21:41 phf pete_dushenski: just the linked appendix, rest requires even more entomological equipment.. :p
21:42 mircea_popescu meanwhile in accidental vulva accidents, http://68.media.tumblr.com/83278159c3180a1620e23653612bfa07/tumblr_o85u04w8pZ1qzhjh2o1_1280.jpg
21:43 * pete_dushenski is more enthralled with japanese culture by the day. intends to construct a house (and garage) stocked with their finest products.
21:47 BingoBoingo mircea_popescu: ty fxd
21:48 ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: ganbatte
21:49 pete_dushenski heh
21:53 Framedragger pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2017/01/05/a-quick-trick-to-save-medium-articles-before-they-go-bye-bye/#comment-53750
21:55 Framedragger (tl;dr right now, scriba only submits to archive.is (with no local retention of requested site); the "did archive.is actually accept the submission" check has been improved, and can be used via the `!$ getarchive` command. local retention should take place eventually though, imo.)
21:56 asciilifeform phf: the part where jp is pathologically, direly, trapped in winblowzland, is actually true.
21:56 Framedragger (and in regards to duplication of effort, technically yes, i think (though you're advising web.archive.org'd sites to be then submitted to archive.is, right?), but that can't be a bad thing. additional prudent advice could include "how to save local copy with images and stylesheets" note, i guess..)
21:57 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598387 << Just set a jar of peanut butter between then and let them sort it out
21:57 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 18:17 ben_vulpes: lol omfg rescue dog food from child, only to be blessed by cries of anger when dog takes banana from child
21:58 asciilifeform i at one point wanted to use the mighty 'super-H' (ss in sega) chip, salivated over the manual, but turned out, all the dev tools from vendor are microshitian, and even the ~example sources~ wouldn't unpack without some microturd
21:58 Framedragger pete_dushenski: i haven't checked, but `wget --page-requisites $URL` may be enough for the latter.
21:58 asciilifeform *as in sega
22:00 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: likely less amusing than you'd expect, scarcity is key to conflict
22:00 pete_dushenski Framedragger: comment answered, cheers :) /me didn't have much success with wget and, eg. tlp, but other sites may be more amenable to it
22:00 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598945 << afaik the problem of how to archive remains open. i've though about truly dr.mengele-grade solutions: e.g., spin up os-cum-graphic-wwwbrowser in emulator, capture the rendered payload as bitmap, then destroy the universe, each time. treat www as nintendo rom!
22:00 a111 Logged on 2017-01-08 02:55 Framedragger: (tl;dr right now, scriba only submits to archive.is (with no local retention of requested site); the "did archive.is actually accept the submission" check has been improved, and can be used via the `!$ getarchive` command. local retention should take place eventually though, imo.)
22:01 asciilifeform *thought about
22:01 BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: I didn't think dogs, especially big dogs had a concept of "plenty" when it came to peanut butter.
22:01 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: child will get distracted by the wonder that is a fistful of pb tho
22:01 ben_vulpes ah which reminds me, gotta go lubricate the child
22:02 Framedragger asciilifeform: actually what i also like about archive.is (don't get me wrong, i agree that trusting a service run by some d00d not in wot isn't super future-proof, ahem) is that it *does* save a bitmap rendered image for the site, too
22:02 asciilifeform it is not only closed-rando, but takes eons.
22:02 asciilifeform (a standard heathen browser loads same crud in a fee sec)
22:02 asciilifeform *few sec
22:03 ben_vulpes should be a paid service, really, debiting the accounts of whomever pastes the link
22:03 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598955 << problem is solved problem, just requires work. at the very least we can easily replicate archive.is functionality
22:03 a111 Logged on 2017-01-08 03:00 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598945 << afaik the problem of how to archive remains open. i've though about truly dr.mengele-grade solutions: e.g., spin up os-cum-graphic-wwwbrowser in emulator, capture the rendered payload as bitmap, then destroy the universe, each time. treat www as nintendo rom!
22:03 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: i'm not pulling out the fucking launch codes to sign a beobachter url omfg
22:04 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: from the log!
22:04 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: i think ben_vulpes intends to say that deedbot's forthcoming payment service could keep track of invoicing
22:05 asciilifeform if we were on mars and paid a buck a byte for bw, it'd almost make sense
22:05 ben_vulpes and whoever !!up's someone is on the hook for the cost of archiving their links.
22:05 ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: needs no dependency on deedbot
22:05 Framedragger asciilifeform: there's that station-key vs. identity-key idea of yours, perhaps the former could could be allowed to go a few cents into debit, though this is maybe a road to complexity madness..
22:05 ben_vulpes oh ffs
22:06 asciilifeform Framedragger: mircea_popescu had a more recent discussion re 'sybil constellations'
22:06 asciilifeform but presently we have no such thing
22:06 ben_vulpes we have a log attributing lines to wot members whence this nonsense i ask you
22:06 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-21#1558085
22:06 a111 Logged on 2016-10-21 21:42 phf: they are using Qt webkit integration, either through a hacked up version of phantomjs, or something handwritten. there's enough hooks in qt, that you can figure out what was loaded, where it got stored in local cache and where it's being used.
22:07 asciilifeform phf: this method has a problem
22:07 Framedragger ben_vulpes: i think asciilifeform hates the idea of trusting fleanode to maintain nick-to-identity mappings. the !!up/down model was *supposed* to eliminate gribble-like state anyway, right?
22:07 asciilifeform if your www renderer has a hole...
22:07 phf asciilifeform: i said ~at least replicate archive.is~
22:08 asciilifeform phf: a public www toilet ideally would have guaranteed isolation of universes.
22:08 ben_vulpes Framedragger: we're talking usgpennies here
22:09 * pete_dushenski to pizza
22:09 asciilifeform replicating a.is would not be all that hard, could even use an instrumented civilian browser
22:09 asciilifeform but quite unhygienic.
22:09 phf right, just nobody dun it :>
22:09 Framedragger ben_vulpes: suresure, i agree that it'd be fine, but i expect someone could concoct a "sybil account keeps draining pennies" argument.. but eh. yeah.
22:09 phf instead they's splitting bitcents between em :p
22:09 asciilifeform nobody wants to preside over the syphilitic bordello that would result.
22:11 asciilifeform and yes i have nfi what is with this preoccupation with charging each other pennies for a ~0-cost pipeline
22:11 asciilifeform reminds me of the scene in b00k 'atlas shrugged' where the zillionaires in the invisible magic valley give each other gold coins when borrowing cup of sugar
22:13 Framedragger well, you mentioned sybil. this may help avoid sybil url submission spam. granted, the latter may be avoided by "only people currently voiced / currently in l2 / l1" filter, etc..
22:13 asciilifeform Framedragger: 'sybil' in that thread meant something rather nonstandard
22:14 asciilifeform it was about folks like asciilifeform having multiple keys that are used for different things, but wot-connected as if they were people
22:14 Framedragger ahh.
22:14 ben_vulpes could just be for wot, point is nothing for allcomers
22:14 Framedragger creating an impression of a strong wot and so on, i see.
22:14 ben_vulpes bbl
22:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu proposed this as a somewhat cleaner solution to the vectored-sig problem
22:15 asciilifeform and i am quite convinced now that no cleaner answer will be found.
22:16 * Framedragger off to sleep, damn you west-of-ocean peoples!
22:16 asciilifeform (thread was iirc originally about a vtronic gentoo cleanup, and i noted that nobody with half a brain would sign a gig of dubious rubbish code with their naked, unvectored lordly key)
22:17 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: just don't autoarchive pastes by tempvoiced folx
22:17 asciilifeform problemsolved.
22:18 Framedragger ahh. so you'd e.g. have a 'weaker' key (with a certain limited degree of trust) which could sign those kinds of abonimations. pretty elegant! (also disregard my "impression of strong wot" comment, i had misunderstood)
22:22 asciilifeform one of the minuses imho is that it will increase the cost of ferreting out cases of http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-make-money-on-the-internet-while-pretending-you-know-what-youre-talking-about-and-accumulating-a-legion-of-mindless-followers-for-fun-and-profit/ .
22:23 asciilifeform (then again, maybe not)
22:29 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598911 << apparently while i slept in my cave, jp went down the same toilet as everybody else: honda had a ~firmware bug~ recall recently , power steering controller crashed while in motion, users instructed to reboot motherfucking auto! on roadside
22:29 a111 Logged on 2017-01-08 02:25 pete_dushenski: one can only attribute the electronic reliability of toyotas and hondas to the availability of ~the right kind~ of coders in japan. compare and contrast with those of us or germany, it'd be a hoot.
22:30 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598613 << Until you get a mailing address a better question is "What are the dealbreakers I should look for on a 2003 Saturn L-series?"
22:30 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 21:26 gabriel_laddel_p: pete_dushenski: what do you think of the recent porsche cayennes?
22:31 asciilifeform (at least the thing wasn't a 'fly by wire', it remains physically possible to steer sans hydraulics, but the sudden wtf may well get you crunching under oncoming traffic or off a bridge )
22:32 asciilifeform BingoBoingo : if/when my auto gives up the ghost, i'm getting another ~2003, and not because cheap, but because wtf omfg firmware?!
22:33 asciilifeform some of the recent machines are rumoured to contain winblowz, even.
22:33 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: AHA! Yes.
22:34 asciilifeform 'no comp' is a moherfuckng FEATURE
22:34 asciilifeform iirc even recent 'cessna', for instance, had 0 cpu
22:35 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-07#1598655 << Oh my? And what happened when you hit breaker bar with mallet? That's when things revealed their defects?
22:35 a111 Logged on 2017-01-07 22:18 ben_vulpes: even the mighty pblaster could not free them
22:35 asciilifeform 100% carburetted.
22:35 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: for passenger car engine control computer for fuel injection is nearly necessary due to the ethanol dabacle
22:36 asciilifeform the z80 in my old toyota -- worked for 20+ yrs and probably worx even nao
22:36 asciilifeform 0 crashes.
22:36 asciilifeform 0 detectable bugs.
22:37 BingoBoingo But now "new" includes fucking MSWindows dorkathon instead of actual Radio!
22:38 BingoBoingo And turdscreen is plugged into fuel injection computer
~ 15 minutes ~
22:53 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: no breaker bar necessary, these were 10mm fuckers
22:54 ben_vulpes battery tie down rod simply failed under torsional load: "that...didn't feel like the rust giving way. jesus /fuck/."
22:57 ben_vulpes hah fml my v implementation presses into the same directory as that as which contains the patches and seals
23:00 phf can make vpatches that generate vpatches! it's metacircular
23:01 ben_vulpes if only it could also evaluate itself
23:01 ben_vulpes OH WAIT
23:01 ben_vulpes ;)
23:02 phf you just put the lisp code in the same folder
23:08 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598770 << Dust kills computer fans as well.
23:08 a111 Logged on 2017-01-08 00:35 mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel_p people get exposure chalk dust allergy.
23:09 BingoBoingo http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598772 << Cleanliness is the better than coverup, but OMG PineSol's active component is turpentine! Think of the wonder VOCs!
23:09 a111 Logged on 2017-01-08 00:36 gabriel_laddel_p: for the record, does anyone know of an intelligent person who uses air fresheners/fabreez?
23:12 adlai such puns
23:13 asciilifeform for non-usaschwitzinmates, who have nfi what gabriel_laddel_p was on about: the medieval idiocy of hygiene-via-parfumery is alive and well in this monkeystan
23:14 asciilifeform it is especially entertaining to asciilifeform that this was brought up, because in so far as i can tell the entire masamune thing is precisely an instance thereof, in its domain.
23:15 BingoBoingo lol
23:15 asciilifeform (and yes i watched the film)
23:15 asciilifeform apparently nothing has changed since last saw clim !
23:16 asciilifeform i can still WATCH the fucking scrollbars draw.
23:16 * BingoBoingo does not have time to watch advertising videos unless they are selling black girl pussy.
23:19 asciilifeform (i will admit that until watching the film i held out hope that g_l ACTUALLY fixed the thing. but turns out -- no dice.)
23:20 BingoBoingo Anyways new Pinesol sucks because "reformulated" now just another perfumed mess of detergents
23:20 asciilifeform and since he's asleep i will predict what he would say, 'stfu, the perfume smells great, even if it is exactly same one you smelled decade ago without me, and i'll get the bubonic plague underneath out later!'
23:24 asciilifeform !~later tell gabriel_laddel_p didja ever write down publicly what it was precisely that you did to clim ~other~ than to carve your initials into its flesh ?
23:24 jhvh1 asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
23:26 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598946 << i thought that was more of a south korea / banking driven thing, not so much japan
23:26 a111 Logged on 2017-01-08 02:56 asciilifeform: phf: the part where jp is pathologically, direly, trapped in winblowzland, is actually true.
23:26 asciilifeform also jp.
23:27 * mircea_popescu has nfi, i'll believe.
23:28 phf fwiw i wouldn't say they are "trapped". as i don't think they care about anything else. they don't keep up to date with microsoft modern and bestest. they still release ms stack software with xp compatibility for example
23:28 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598955 << just download the fucking archive.is archive zips already omygerd.
23:28 a111 Logged on 2017-01-08 03:00 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1598945 << afaik the problem of how to archive remains open. i've though about truly dr.mengele-grade solutions: e.g., spin up os-cum-graphic-wwwbrowser in emulator, capture the rendered payload as bitmap, then destroy the universe, each time. treat www as nintendo rom!
23:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: i tried, recall, this.
23:28 asciilifeform got garbage about half the time.
23:29 asciilifeform curl, wget, whichever. same result.
23:29 mircea_popescu you did ? hm. i somehow dun recall.
23:29 asciilifeform forgot the magic-zip thread ?
23:29 asciilifeform july.
23:29 asciilifeform still unsolved enigma.
23:29 mircea_popescu all i recall from it was "alf got problem couldn't be replicated".
23:29 asciilifeform i dun recall anybody but mircea_popescu trying the replicate
23:30 asciilifeform but otherwise yes
23:30 asciilifeform this aside, the most recent thread began with archive.is being ~down~
23:30 phf i was playing along. i think could unpack it with pkzip, but not the open source equivalent
23:31 asciilifeform lol!
23:31 asciilifeform which one didja use phf -- the msdos one ?!
23:32 mircea_popescu asciilifeform what he says is what happened, you had broken unzipper wouldn't fix it. which is fine, but also no basis for discussing anything.
23:32 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: holy fuck, 'broken', using same one for decade+ with zero incident.
23:32 asciilifeform and fwiw the turd wouldn't unzip on winblowz or crapple either.
23:32 mircea_popescu i vaguely recall tracing the problem towards unzip version but giving up under barrage of strange.
23:33 asciilifeform did mircea_popescu or anybody else get MY hashed zip to unpack ?
23:33 asciilifeform link to log plox ?
23:33 asciilifeform (and i meant MY zip, as in what came out of my wall plug, and not what-mircea_popescu-got-from-curl)
23:33 mircea_popescu eh.
23:34 phf crapple uses open source code for unzipping. where's i believe pkware eventually open sourced their code too. so now there's two competing versions floating around.
23:34 mircea_popescu but why would i/anyone do that ?
23:34 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: because my working hypothesis was that my copy came from mitmtron.
23:34 mircea_popescu well ok, but what's that do.
23:34 mircea_popescu just get it over diff connection.
23:35 asciilifeform i still have nfi exactly what. it's been backburnered since.
23:35 asciilifeform but it remains that relying on that one rando's box to create the zips, is a dubious thing.
23:36 asciilifeform i'm not certain how it beats, for instance, google.
23:36 asciilifeform or archive.org. or any other creature of heathendom.
23:36 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-08#1599001 << no dude, this suffers of apocriphal bible issue by now. point was that outsider ~can't distinguish~ between "different" identities in the sense of bit-different or cock-different.
23:36 a111 Logged on 2017-01-08 03:14 Framedragger: creating an impression of a strong wot and so on, i see.
23:36 mircea_popescu asciilifeform it beats it in that it's there.
23:37 asciilifeform well today, for instance, it WASN'T there.
23:37 asciilifeform when it was needed.
23:37 mircea_popescu not everything has or needs a deeply philosophical answer. archive bot should save the urls and get the zips. big whoop.
23:37 mircea_popescu and if they're mitm'd, it's even more valuable, now we get a collection of strange zips.
23:37 mircea_popescu how could that POSSIBLY be an argument against.
23:38 asciilifeform is mircea_popescu really defending a single point of failure being presided over by wotless heathen ?
23:38 mircea_popescu asciilifeform dude the whole discussion was what happens if archive ~goes away~. NOT what happes if archive is down.
23:38 mircea_popescu stop mixing everything together ffs.
23:38 asciilifeform and, iirc, the very same wotless heathen who was responsible for the fate of dulap-1.
23:38 mircea_popescu i have nfi what you're on about on either of these.
23:38 asciilifeform the 'we'll unplug nightly' thing.
23:39 mircea_popescu what about it ?
23:39 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: you think he did not know ?
23:39 mircea_popescu who's he!
23:39 asciilifeform the archive.is d00d.
23:39 asciilifeform who was subcontractor for that box.
23:39 mircea_popescu look. i dunno what set of assumptions/convictions/determinations of fact you're operating under ehre, but to be plain, the situation as observed from my chair is as follows :
23:42 mircea_popescu a) alf wrote a first version of phuctor, which wasn't very good. this is excusable in that it was a first version, and altogether irrelevant ; b) alf's version being not very good was accidentally exposed through ordinary course of business ; c) alf got very butthurt at this circumstance, and kept whining about it in the logs ; d) having had enough of the whine at some later point, i presented him with the choice of either fi
23:42 mircea_popescu xing his code or going away ; e) so butthurt was alf over his code being no good in some particular and not terribly relevant way, he decided to go away. this caused phuctor to be offline for about a year. f) at some later point, getting a machine in the same datacenter if memory serves, alf declared that remnants from archive.is were found i dun recall how or where. this is entirely possible, and in any case i've not invest
23:42 mircea_popescu igated.
23:42 asciilifeform it was absolutely not-very-good.
23:43 asciilifeform ran in O(N^2).
23:43 asciilifeform but you're missing a letter between c and d, which is where the hoster found out about the particular weakness and started unplugging the box.
23:43 mircea_popescu now - wut of all of this ? maybe it was the same guy, i guess, maybe there was a conspiracy to reboot the server, i guess, maybe etcetera. i'm unconvinced nor do i see it matters any.
23:44 mircea_popescu i guess.
23:44 asciilifeform and granted if this had not happened, i probably would not have gotten off arse and rewritten the thing, and it would be ~useless nao.
23:44 mircea_popescu a cheap explanation would be for instance
23:44 asciilifeform but the perpetrator was still no friend.
23:44 mircea_popescu holy shit check out this idiot.
23:44 mircea_popescu a cheap explanation would be for instance - that archive people hosted in same place, and left for same reason.
23:44 mircea_popescu or whatever thousand others. i have nfi.
23:45 mircea_popescu well i dun think anyone's a friend, including the baker. i've not yet geiger-countered the flour.
23:45 asciilifeform granted that i do not know, if he left, if he stayed, what role he played. at least partly because d00d is not in the wot! and never speaks in the forum.
23:45 asciilifeform which was 100% of my complaint really.
23:46 mircea_popescu i think i shot him an email once which he replied
23:46 mircea_popescu o yeah, cuz i lifted the js for text selection from his site.
23:46 mircea_popescu and iirc reported a bug or something. anyway.
23:47 asciilifeform at any rate i did not say d00d is enemy. only 'not friend.'
23:47 asciilifeform but 'tmsr has no friends but its army and navy' or how did it go.
23:47 mircea_popescu right. anyway, to dispell the possible implication - it's not that i like secretly know whoever runs archive.is
23:48 mircea_popescu i have nfi, item seems to work is the entire extent of the thing ; and i don't specifically know him to be a hitler crony, like i do specifically know archive.org to be a hitler crony.
23:48 * asciilifeform believes.
23:49 mircea_popescu and i see no problem with any other or only other services be used - which iirc i even said when bot spec for archival was drawn, that everyone making one should ideally use a diff service
23:49 asciilifeform speaking of rusty infrastructure, mircea_popescu -- the link to wot on your www appears to still point to mike_c's
23:49 mircea_popescu but for some reason nobody seems to have an alt preference. such as for instance because they don't exist or i have nfi
23:49 mircea_popescu asciilifeform iirc i was waiting for trinque to ok it.
23:49 asciilifeform aah ok
23:50 asciilifeform !#seen trinque
23:50 a111 2017-01-07 <trinque> afk for a while
23:50 asciilifeform lol, just when i needed him!1111
23:51 * asciilifeform will plug the shiny new rewritten phuctorwerker back in when trinque's rss baselinesyncs
23:51 asciilifeform it was tested until it screamed, worx 100%.
23:51 asciilifeform also db scrubbed of all spurious factors.
23:52 asciilifeform (strictly matching the rule of 'f == m and f is not factor of any other m'
23:52 asciilifeform )
23:53 BingoBoingo !~later tell gabriel_laddel_p Are you ready to take step 1 yet?
23:53 jhvh1 BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
23:58 mircea_popescu cool. anyway, what's teh rush.
23:59 asciilifeform no rush.
23:59 * asciilifeform to bed.
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