Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2016-12-15 | 2016-12-17 →
00:00 * pete_dushenski to study for compsci final exam tmrw morning.
00:02 trinque I don't think much of luck, so I'll say do well instead!
~ 1 hours 21 minutes ~
01:24 trinque in other python 2 was already shit... all([]) -> True yet any([]) -> False
01:28 trinque http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19601802/how-does-all-in-python-work-on-empty-lists/19601813#19601813 << great fucking scott, the towering minds.
01:33 davout lulzy
01:40 trinque All of Elliot's no girlfriends fucked him all night. -> True.
01:40 trinque yeah I guess it checks out.
~ 2 hours 26 minutes ~
04:07 Framedragger WRQReflectionforSecureIT_7.0 << hahahahaha
04:07 Framedragger epic lulz.
04:09 Framedragger trinque: that's sorta fuckin' weird. "empty set as first class citizen" something something...
~ 28 minutes ~
04:37 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-15#1583663 << two small notes: 1. i've now deleted the uncompressed *.log's, everything's in archive format (and raw logs still available of course). just not to waste disk space.
04:37 a111 Logged on 2016-12-15 16:07 Framedragger: (and @all, http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/ is the canonical URL for all data gathered from the ssh scans. includes raw stderr logs from ssh-keyscan utility, e.g. http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/banners/s1/1_err_scan.log ; scripts for processing these are http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/banners/write_ssh_banners.py and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/banners/process_all_banners.sh )
04:37 Framedragger and 2., re. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-15#1583653 << asciilifeform: fyi internal line order does *not* map to order of openpgp files - sorry about this. but the filenames and numbers *do* map to parcels previously given. just to be clear.
04:37 a111 Logged on 2016-12-15 15:54 Framedragger: (numbers in filenames and internal line order maps to openpgp files i gave you, fwiw)
04:39 Framedragger oh and, http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s1_scan.tar.bz2 and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s2_scan.tar.bz2 (note, large files) are the stdout of ssh-keyscan and contains the public keys in raw log format. just for completeness' sake. #actualscientificreplicabilitymotherfuckers
04:40 Framedragger (and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s1_ip.tar.bz2 and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s2_ip.tar.bz2 are all the 15`646`188 ssh IPs for anyone interested.)
04:49 Framedragger http://qntra.net/2016/12/ubuntu-crash-reports-allow-remote-code-execution/ << good stuff. fwiw Donncha is cool. here's him fucking around with coinbase: https://donncha.is/2013/06/coinbase-owning-a-bitcoin-exchange-bug-bounty-program/
~ 55 minutes ~
05:45 * Framedragger just discovered http://trilema.com/2012/the-mpex-rota/ - pretty neat. i take it this expensive experiment had been thus discontinued :)
05:46 Framedragger mircea_popescu: obtw, re. http://trilema.com/2016/internet-census-2016/#selection-21.0-21.13 it should probably say "Back in June", as it was june. the second scanning event was in july, but all of phuctor's finds thus far have been from the first scan in june
05:52 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583915 << whoops, correction: these contain all the >20M IPs answering to port 22. (otherwise these would be redundant cf. banner CSVs).
05:52 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 09:40 Framedragger: (and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s1_ip.tar.bz2 and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s2_ip.tar.bz2 are all the 15`646`188 ssh IPs for anyone interested.)
05:52 Framedragger /me done with logspam
~ 21 minutes ~
06:13 Framedragger https://i.imgur.com/QC51FZz.png
~ 47 minutes ~
07:00 mircea_popescu Framedragger ah i c.
07:03 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583891 << ah great then! ima write post announcing it today, what time works for you ? 17:00 ART ?
07:03 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 04:31 pete_dushenski marks off time on calendar.
07:08 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583902 << this is actually strictly speaking correct. an empty set is whole even if it has no elements.
07:08 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 06:24 trinque: in other python 2 was already shit... all([]) -> True yet any([]) -> False
07:09 mircea_popescu but i can see why this is practically obnoxious.
07:11 mircea_popescu "are {} all the elements of the empty set ?" "yes." "name one such element." "there isn't one."
07:13 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583906 << yup. this goes nicely with http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-01#1575797
07:13 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 06:40 trinque: yeah I guess it checks out.
07:13 a111 Logged on 2016-12-01 18:44 mircea_popescu: the sad fact of the matter is that the brain is not a reasoning engine. in a very purely naturalistic, bio-logical way, this is sensible. the practice of "talk to the text, not context or subtext" has become established through moo practice
07:16 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583914 << btw, i'm hosting a copy of the whole file, so you don't get hammered too badly.
07:16 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 09:39 Framedragger: oh and, http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s1_scan.tar.bz2 and http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/s2_scan.tar.bz2 (note, large files) are the stdout of ssh-keyscan and contains the public keys in raw log format. just for completeness' sake. #actualscientificreplicabilitymotherfuckers
07:18 mircea_popescu all_internet_ssh_banners.txt.tar.gz 109 0 11.16 GB 102.38 MB so far ; not the end of teh world.
07:18 Framedragger mircea_popescu: ah, that's cool and useful, ty
07:19 mircea_popescu actually, 2nd largest bw eater this month, i also served 12 GB worth of http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/lit.txt
07:19 mircea_popescu but that's been #1 pretty much since april.
07:20 mircea_popescu Framedragger it's an iffy thing from my pov, because on one hand you know, you did it i should link it ; but on the other i dunno how many people'd click and how well you're set-up for it. anyway if you'd like a blog linked or something do say.
07:22 Framedragger mircea_popescu: thanks. in point of fact a blog is now in actual plans, not only oneday-maybewaybe. :) re. capacity to handle, at least the connection is unmetered, and it's just static nginx. but it's not anything big. so this is useful and appreciated.
07:22 mircea_popescu cool deal.
07:23 * mircea_popescu checked, about half of that was in the first half hour (thanks god for delayed rss otherwise it'd prolly be within five minutes eh!) so that's like 3MB/s jus' there.
07:24 shinohai "Let's ALL scrap GPG, getting too hard to spy on peeps" https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2016/12/giving_up_on_pg.html
07:26 mircea_popescu Framedragger not so much a matter of the webserver itself, the load on that is minimal for large file transfers ; but from experience most hosters offer 1Mbps to 1MBps links unless actually specified. and this is outide of any "intelligent" throttling at the router interface etc.
07:26 mircea_popescu shinohai ironically we're also giving up on gpg, for the exactly opposite reason.
07:26 mircea_popescu there's a lesson in this, where being a jwz dun pay. gotta pick sides, loud and clear.
07:27 shinohai I shall make haste to leave these walls the day you recommend using signal+tor
07:27 mircea_popescu the incredible audacity of the usg assets. really, they are STILL pushing tor ?
07:27 mircea_popescu it's about equivalent to mit still pushing ethereum.
07:29 Framedragger mircea_popescu: yeah, good point. well the hosting provider is ~shitty and quality of bw offered is not great (OVH), but it *does* make a more-or-less successful attempt at providing an actual full duplex 100 mbps, which isn't a lot, but still decent to my liking. so at least there's that.
07:29 Framedragger even Framedragger doesn't push tor anymore. *and that's telling you somethin'* :D
07:29 mircea_popescu lol
07:30 mircea_popescu i honestly don't know anyone (who is someone, i don't mean kids with no money, no power and no value dicking about ; and who isn't actually nsa) is still using the thing.
07:31 mircea_popescu so it is somewhat moot. they might as well advertise microsoft powerclip + yahoo briefcase as a solution, for all the difference it'd make.
07:31 mircea_popescu and god knows both those "corporations" need it badly.
07:32 mircea_popescu Framedragger you actually saw this in action ? ie, served 40ish GB in any given hour or anything like that ?
07:32 Framedragger (i use tor to access things like library genesis while still in airstrip one, but that says more about airstrip one than anything else.)
07:32 mircea_popescu !~google library genesis
07:32 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Library Genesis / LibGen - The Meta Library - Sites - Google: <https://sites.google.com/site/themetalibrary/library-genesis>; Library Genesis - Reddit: <https://www.reddit.com/r/libgen/>; Libgen.cc: <http://libgen.cc/>
07:32 Framedragger mircea_popescu: well, didn't *serve*, but benchmarked myself. i can try again tho, that was long ago
07:32 mircea_popescu ah, same thing.
07:33 mircea_popescu note though that sub-hour benchmarks are meaningless.
07:33 Framedragger (oh oh, and also trying out masscan (the first-stage scanner, i.e. the one which sends TCP SYNs) with maybe 30-100k packets per second stable))
07:33 mircea_popescu if you do it for say 10 seconds, well doh, they allow it.
07:33 Framedragger yeah sure.
07:34 * Framedragger will consider testing it. would be useful knowledge, i.e. OVH *is* cost effective for not-super-important "lower grade hardware ok" deployments
07:38 mircea_popescu which is why like half of malware is hosted there
07:38 Framedragger certainly. (also while on topic, large part of tor relay network. "decentralization!!!")
07:38 mircea_popescu lol. right.
07:39 mircea_popescu this is a fucking issue ffs. if the world worked like FOSS ~pretends it worked~ then we'd have LIKE HALF A DOZEN ssh protocol definitions ; which'd still interoperate ; and from hundreds to just one implementations of each of those. by distinct people in distinct teams.
07:40 mircea_popescu irl, there's ssh 2.0 and ssh 2. 0 ; and ~one implementation, by a known-bad team.
07:40 mircea_popescu what fucking foss. there is no foss. microsoft is the natural structure of ustards and everyone taking after them ; which is to see in a hurry to see results and in no particular mood to examine the quality thereof.
07:42 Framedragger in unrelated newz, while installing an ubuntu package,
07:42 Framedragger > 173 new root certificates were added to your trust store.
07:42 Framedragger uh. how about, fuck your mother
07:42 mircea_popescu the third most commonly seen ssh protocol is a misspelling of the most common one pushed out by mistake years ago!
07:43 mircea_popescu Framedragger lol but you get free stuff for your store!
07:43 mircea_popescu is your trust store on etsy ? :D
07:43 Framedragger i don't even
07:43 mircea_popescu where is this trust store even, now i'm curious.
07:43 Framedragger i'm actually pissed, which just means that i was too optimistic about ubuntu. *i was installing a simple image editor*
07:44 Framedragger wait i'm checking. there's a chinese root authority there... maybe package name denoted something else... still, who in their right mind?...
07:44 mircea_popescu ftr it's /usr/share/ca-certificates ; and i got like... 7
07:45 Framedragger `sudo apt-get install pinta` << is what i did. default ubuntu repos, default ubuntu install fwiw.
07:45 mircea_popescu dude just get gedit.
07:46 Framedragger k@burokas:/usr/share/ca-certificates/mozilla$ find . | wc -l
07:46 Framedragger 174
07:46 mircea_popescu i swear gedit is like the emacs of the art world. once you learn how to use its lisp parts you can never leave.
07:46 Framedragger "i wanted to try something new, and now i have sharks."
07:46 mircea_popescu do yourself a favour learn how to use gimp.scheme ; you will never look at graphics with the same eyes again.
07:46 Framedragger hm! interesting advice
07:47 Framedragger apparently i'm behind on linux graphics software
07:47 mircea_popescu actually i would propose it's a very fine way if not the best way to learn lisp.
07:47 Framedragger normally i'd just fool around with gimp
07:47 Framedragger aha!
07:47 * Framedragger lunch, bbl
07:47 mircea_popescu not only does it mirror how we learned programming as kids (i did circles in a for loop in basic, obtained a nice worm guy!) but it gives an immediacy to lisping absent ANYWHERE else.
07:47 mircea_popescu literally, for the cost of installing gimp you get what ammounts to a visual repl.
07:51 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583917 << it was expensive especially in human terms ; broke a few fingers off people who otherwise were well meaning and willing to try and help.
07:51 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 10:45 Framedragger just discovered http://trilema.com/2012/the-mpex-rota/ - pretty neat. i take it this expensive experiment had been thus discontinued :)
07:51 mircea_popescu sadly this can't entirely be avoided it turns out.
07:52 shinohai !!rated ben_vulpes
07:52 deedbot shinohai rated ben_vulpes 3 at 2016/12/11 03:11:16 << http://cascadianhacker.com/ #trilema trb lisp
07:52 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583919 << wait, what ? which 20mn ?
07:52 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 10:52 Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583915 << whoops, correction: these contain all the >20M IPs answering to port 22. (otherwise these would be redundant cf. banner CSVs).
~ 23 minutes ~
08:16 Framedragger mircea_popescu: the 20M or so servers which responded to TCP SYNs sent to port 22. however, out of those, about 5M (or however many) did not respond to ssh handshakes, hence the lower number in the banners and phuctor payloads.
08:16 mircea_popescu ah right right.
08:17 Framedragger i guess one should standardise terms here. the larger number corresponds to "something's running there" servers, found via 1st scan phase. the lower 15M number corresponds to "actually speaks ssh protocol" servers, found via 2nd (ssh-keyscan) scan phase.
08:18 Framedragger i would avoid inducing all of this confusion if i wrote all of this shit up in place - mea culpa. will be done eventually.
08:18 Framedragger in one place*
08:18 mircea_popescu no big deal, it'd be confusing if we didn't know what this is.
08:19 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583998 << will try this - very useful pointer.
08:19 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 12:47 mircea_popescu: literally, for the cost of installing gimp you get what ammounts to a visual repl.
08:20 mircea_popescu can be your first blog post! "here's me trying gimp repl"
08:21 Framedragger "adventures in procedural cock drawing, vol 1"
08:22 mircea_popescu lol
08:23 mircea_popescu i didn't know you were a girl.
08:24 Framedragger hey that vc dude apparently likes to call everything cocks, and it's working out for him
08:29 mircea_popescu yes but that's because he's a girl.
08:42 mircea_popescu incidentally, speaking of nothing in particular, everyone heard of carlos ghosn ? quite the fellow.
08:44 Framedragger hah busy fella!
08:47 mircea_popescu fortune "gave him" some "best in business ~OUTSIDE OF US~" title, in typical byzantine style of "our nose's so upturned if it rains we drown" ; but then both gm and ford begged him to take them on (and he didn't. why didn't he ? is it because no great again possible in the us according to the people who specialize in great agains ?)
08:48 mircea_popescu incidentally, the greatest skill in the world isn't to you know, get named head of michelin south america reporting directly to francois michelin and then turn it around in a coupla years.
08:49 mircea_popescu the greatest skill is to turn down byzantine crap a la gm or ford. "oh great opportunity". heh, for THEM, maybe. they want to suck your juju, to extend their lifespan for a few short extra weeks WITHOUT CHANGING substantially. that's the fucking problem.
08:49 mircea_popescu never take on a slave who's not aware she's abject refuse.
08:53 Framedragger "In the first year of the Nissan Revival Plan, Nissan's consolidated net profit after tax climbed to $2.7 billion for fiscal year 2000, from a consolidated net loss of $6.46 billion in the previous year. Twelve months into his three-year turnaround plan, Nissan had returned to profitability, and within three years it was one of the industry's most profitable auto makers, with
08:54 Framedragger operating margins consistently above 9%—more than twice the industry average." << wow
08:54 mircea_popescu he's big in japan.
08:55 Framedragger gotta love the empire's press and resulting ignorance
09:02 mircea_popescu meanwhile they give professional company sinkers credit. carly fiorina, this tracy lorde of us business, singlehandedly destroyed two functional companies.
09:04 Framedragger amusing.
09:04 Framedragger https://www.schrauger.com/the-story-of-how-wosign-gave-me-an-ssl-certificate-for-github-com << ffs i have these jokers in my ca list now. need to go through it and remove shit.
09:04 mircea_popescu just take everything out.
09:04 Framedragger yea.
09:04 * mircea_popescu doesn't even HAVE mozilla directory in ca-certs because wtf.
09:05 Framedragger well there's no cert *outside* mozilla dir. maybe it's the ubuntu's organized. fresh install, don't ask...
09:05 Framedragger mircea_popescu, what do you have in cert list if you don't mind me asking?
09:05 Framedragger the way*
09:06 mircea_popescu debconf.org, that sort of thing.
09:06 Framedragger aha right.
09:08 mircea_popescu (btw, mind that * in rm -f doesn't match dotfiles)
09:08 Framedragger hm, good reminder...
09:08 mircea_popescu {*,.*}
09:09 Framedragger yeah. ridoinculous ca shitpile, wtf
09:13 davout http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583997 <<< c'est pas tombé dans l'oreille d'un sourd
09:13 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 12:47 mircea_popescu: not only does it mirror how we learned programming as kids (i did circles in a for loop in basic, obtained a nice worm guy!) but it gives an immediacy to lisping absent ANYWHERE else.
09:13 mircea_popescu cool
09:19 shinohai !~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/jbIJB/?raw=true
09:19 jhvh1 shinohai: The operation succeeded.
09:21 mircea_popescu Framedragger there's a lot of interesting stuff at the "western world" - japan interface. japan being, of course, the only non-european industrialised country. but it doesn't stop there - when the whole socialist world went up in flames in the 20s, japan was doing absolutely fine ; even made a bundle speculating the loser's currencies.
09:22 mircea_popescu this has A LOT to do with the mechanisms discussed in http://trilema.com/2013/digging-through-archives-yields-gold/ ; and so unsurprisingly the us marxists came up with all sorts of funny theories as to what "japan was really like" economically.
09:22 mircea_popescu it's a topic worthy of investigation.
09:23 Framedragger hey scriba catch this http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@metzdowd.com/msg09968.html
09:27 mircea_popescu he was wrong on one point, re the "political suicide". not that the niggers aren't PRETENDING of course, but their pretense aside my credit's evidently better than clinton's.
09:27 mircea_popescu so far it was political suicide - for her ; not for me.
09:29 mircea_popescu on which note i should wish to muchly encourage the ~competent~ youth to not fear "suicide" of this nature. it's a control artefact implanted by the socialist motherhood for their detriment, a sort of imaginary pain box of the bene gesserit. there's no reason to even HAVE a "group of women who don't fuck" as a political entity, let alone ridoinculous imaginary boxes.
09:29 mircea_popescu worry not about "political suicide".
09:29 asciilifeform well '20s jp ~did~ get bulldozed.
09:30 asciilifeform (though it did give usg a good run for its money, first)
09:30 mircea_popescu right.
09:31 mircea_popescu japan got buldozed chiefly because of the utterly immoral attitude of thinking people at the time.
09:31 mircea_popescu who, incidentally, mostly all figured out what a horrible sin it was to deliver the socialists the bomb.
09:31 mircea_popescu except, in typical "i'm a thinker not a doer" puppy style, figured out after.
09:32 asciilifeform as if anybody but the socialists could have paid for the bomb.
09:32 mircea_popescu not really the point, is it.
09:32 mircea_popescu "i just want to" i get it, i get it. it's stupid and disastrous.
09:33 asciilifeform is the point though. someone was to end up with it, and that someone would have been a socialist throne of whichever colour.
09:34 mircea_popescu !~google nishina
09:34 jhvh1 mircea_popescu: Yoshio Nishina - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshio_Nishina>; Shima Nishina - MyAnimeList.net: <https://myanimelist.net/character/130094/Shima__Nishina>; History | RIKEN Nishina Center: <http://www.nishina.riken.jp/about/history_e.html>
09:35 mircea_popescu (guy who correctly identified us nuclear programme in 1939)
09:36 Framedragger "It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to which Baghdad could be given as a parameter."
09:36 mircea_popescu heh
09:36 Framedragger in my quotes file, as a reminder...
09:37 mircea_popescu there's no way to fix this other than "don't work for https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/fe/de/d0/feded087bb5b76da57473b6e7078ffaf.jpg )
09:47 Framedragger (it may however be noted that lacking material wealth, the extreme case of the above appears to be gabriel_laddel (http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1570190); and i *do* prefer to have a friggin' mailing address; and there are places to work which do not do heaven-important things, but are not microshit, either; i.e., there's a spectrum.)
09:47 a111 Logged on 2016-11-18 22:00 gabriel_laddel: Framedragger: fuck participating in the usg web / github / CC economy etc.
09:49 Framedragger (that being said, /me considers working part-time in the future to come, and working more on personal/worthy projects on the side. i don't know how asciilifeform is tmsr-productive while doing other stuff full-time - maybe i should go on a modafinil diet heh)
09:50 asciilifeform 'professional ethics' in usg schmuckdom is a ball of lulz. for instance, when asciilifeform was slaving for usg, he worked in the chemical weapons program. which of course he could not have worked in, because nixon cancelled it, and asciilifeform was never 'security cleared' !!11111 but oh, apparently ~antidotes~ are not weapons! despite the obvious use for the type of antidote that was funded (eat it, release gas, then fight without
09:50 asciilifeform masks while enemy suffers in full body suit)
09:54 Framedragger :(
09:56 mircea_popescu hey, ethics is not mandatory, just a guideline,
09:57 mircea_popescu asciilifeform at least they're coherent, "anti-missile shield is not a nuclear weapon". sure it isn't.
09:58 mircea_popescu such nonproliferation indeed.
09:58 Framedragger i agree, and there is the whole utilitarian framework to be considered in specific instances, such as, "make bloodmoney now, to be invested for quantifiably more good later", etc.; still, it's a nuanced thing...
09:58 asciilifeform the hilarious part is that the ~actual~ impetus for the funding was lizards who understood that eventually someone ~will~ find a way to gas'em; and as soon as it became clear that the antidote will not remove all sequelae from gassing, the funding -- evaporated.
09:59 mircea_popescu heh
09:59 mircea_popescu still chasing perpetual youth up there in the tower of dreamsong huh.
10:00 Framedragger funny you should say that, much-upvoted HN frontpage article right nao: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/15/science/scientists-say-they-can-reset-clock-of-aging-for-mice-at-least.html?referer=https://pay.reddit.com/r/science/comments/5ijdkz/in_the_first_attempt_to_reverse_aging_by/
10:00 Framedragger oh lol @ referer field
10:00 mircea_popescu pay ?!
10:00 mircea_popescu they actually get paid dun they.
10:00 asciilifeform Framedragger: see thread !
10:01 asciilifeform !#s telomerase
10:01 a111 6 results for "telomerase", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=telomerase
10:01 Framedragger oooh nifty asciilifeform
10:01 deedbot http://trilema.com/2016/lauctionne-des-tooleries/ << Trilema - L'Auctionne des Tooleries!
10:02 Framedragger http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-20#1059324 << :p
10:02 a111 Logged on 2015-03-20 04:11 asciilifeform: no prizes for guessing how much use came of this.
10:04 Framedragger mircea_popescu: that subdomian forces https on traffic, was originally intended for 'reddit gold' (sic) users, but is available to all nowandgodwhydoiknowthis
10:06 mircea_popescu (and in the list of "great western pravda" achievements : japan requested uranium oxide from germany (the great blessings of shinto - japan has no fucking resources of any kind), who shipped it via sub, except the sub surrendered once germany surrendered. and the us agitprop claimed it was... "catalyst for use in the production of synthetic methanol for aviation fuel". because totally, the zeros flew on methanol. (uranium dio
10:06 mircea_popescu xide can work as redox catalyst, can oxidize methane).)
10:08 asciilifeform we had thread
10:08 mircea_popescu o we did ?
10:08 asciilifeform it was the load that made up the shortfall from the idiot calutrons.
10:08 asciilifeform that gen. groves proclaimed, correctly, would not supply even a test bomb until '46.
10:09 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-31#1473944
10:09 a111 Logged on 2016-05-31 01:17 asciilifeform: there is, in archive, a letter from general groves to truman stating, plainly, that there will not be REMOTELY enough U for bomb.
10:09 mircea_popescu so we did.
10:09 asciilifeform aha.
10:11 asciilifeform funnily enough, uranium carbide + water == some qty of passable petrol.
10:11 asciilifeform ( -ev , no shit )
10:13 mircea_popescu for the same money, pornstar + biofermenter == electricity enough for some microseconds of porn watching
10:18 mircea_popescu anyway, all this is becoming ever more interesting as the great again summoning will probably imply something that to the japanese will seem like us unreliability creating a disparity with china wrt nukes.
10:30 phf http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583902 << http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/f_everyc.htm where (every (lambda () nil) ()) => t (some (lambda () t) ()) => nil. this is a functional equivalent of and/or macros, where (and) => t and (or) => nil
10:30 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 06:24 trinque: in other python 2 was already shit... all([]) -> True yet any([]) -> False
10:31 mircea_popescu logic is but one.
10:32 phf surprisingly! fwiw at moscow state evening math school you didn't start with programming. for a couple of years the classes were physics, math and boolean logic. programming in C with frbrgeorge was considered an advanced class and the only ~actual touching of computer~ class
10:33 mircea_popescu i don't teach math by computer either. it's like teaching cooking by washing socks.
10:33 mircea_popescu yes, there's some flavour involved but good lord.
10:34 mircea_popescu either functional analysis or set theory are sound basis for mathematical study, rather than applied algorithmics or w/e you'd call it.
10:42 thestringpuller i thought most engineering schools wouldn't allow you to use calculators for math classes? We weren't allowed to use anything but our brains for all Math even DiffEq. I think statistics was the only class where there was an exception.
10:53 asciilifeform in other noose, https://zifra.tech << yet new tardano!1111
10:58 BingoBoingo CardanObama!
11:00 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B6EE2D514424C138EC086E5840C712BFEA64874871CDB7D082605E69F709710B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1589...9383 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '66.193.153.122 (ssh-rsa key from 66.193.153.122 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US HI)
11:01 deedbot http://qntra.net/2016/12/coinbase-targeted-in-cryptsy-class-action/ << Qntra - Coinbase Targeted In Cryptsy Class Action
11:02 Framedragger (fwiw UK unis appear to decently cover basics of ZF set theory in CS classes, too, so at least there's that)
11:02 Framedragger (well, that's an overgeneralization i guess)
11:10 mircea_popescu Framedragger the point is, what do you build the discipline ~around~. it's a linguistic choice, of the level of "we'll write this in basic or php".
11:11 mircea_popescu math ~in terms of~ set theory ; or functionals (as the math thing, not as the cs thing) ; as opposed to computering.
11:13 Framedragger sure.
11:14 * Framedragger wonders how "let's axiomatize from set theory, frege/russell style" would go for 1st year students tho :p
11:14 mircea_popescu splendidly, if you don't expect most to make it to 2nd year.
11:18 mircea_popescu (also you're not held to be more rigorous than the attendance supports, irl)
11:27 * BingoBoingo thinking about building new, proper editor's desk in late Q1 or Q2 next year. Debating between oak, structural grade "southern yellow pine", and mixed wood
11:27 mircea_popescu totally oak, it ages well can auction later.
11:30 BingoBoingo Finishes easier too
11:30 mircea_popescu aha.
11:30 BingoBoingo But heavy, so harder to pick up and beat intruders with
11:32 * BingoBoingo also would consider hickory if it can be sourced
11:33 phf dropbox is finally discontinuing public folder. "we’ve built even better ways for you to share securely and work together with your team." what a load of shit. literally the best feature they had was unmediated ~/pub/. the "better ways" they are referring to is a web 2.0 style "USE DROPBOX CLIENT (or click here to download directly like some kind of loser)"
11:35 mircea_popescu what is this, like an empire wotpaste ?
11:35 shinohai phf is the nifty dragon you put between log schism still there?
11:36 * BingoBoingo atm leaning towards mixed wood. Perhaps a walnut top and Douglas fir (maximally pink boards) structral components.
11:36 phf mircea_popescu: kind of like a transparent rsync to a shared folder, with ~/public linked to public web url
11:36 mircea_popescu right.
11:36 phf shinohai: of course!
11:36 * shinohai can't seem to find dragon, checks dates
11:37 phf ohno i wonder if i broke it
11:37 mircea_popescu speaking of which ben_vulpes : how would you feel about adding a rsync-like interface for wotpaste through rsa sessions ?
11:39 shinohai I spoke to him about that too actually xD
11:39 mircea_popescu o ?
11:39 phf shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-03-28#1440673
11:39 a111 Logged on 2016-03-28 13:11 mircea_popescu: upon consideration, i see no reason to continue supporting or otherwise encourage kakobrekla's bizarre worldview. on the contrary, i view further involvement with the nonsense as considerable moral hazard, and a miserable thing to do altogether.
11:40 shinohai weird, my browser didn't render it
11:40 Framedragger lol
11:40 phf shinohai: is it still broken? it's possible that hr background is not portable..
11:41 mircea_popescu i see it.
11:41 shinohai I do now, my img block was on ;p
11:41 Framedragger same (FF 50.0.2 linux x64)
11:42 mircea_popescu "dear abby - i noticed today that while wearing my chastity belt, i can't seem to have sexual intercourse. please advise."
11:45 shinohai !~display 162.243.124.182
11:45 jhvh1 shinohai: No GeoIP information found for 162.243.124.182
11:45 Framedragger ^ digital ocean
11:46 shinohai http://directorybooks.me/tmsr-btcbase.html <<< attempts to serve you weird pdf?
11:46 mircea_popescu there's a bunch of these.
11:52 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584114 << that's fine, except that the empty list is nil which is used as false.
11:52 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 15:30 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583902 << http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/f_everyc.htm where (every (lambda () nil) ()) => t (some (lambda () t) ()) => nil. this is a functional equivalent of and/or macros, where (and) => t and (or) => nil
11:52 mircea_popescu the problem comes back to the very naive christian notions of the moral value of the void.
11:53 phf trinque: i don't get it
11:54 * trinque also now digesting mp's statement
11:55 trinque from where I sit one can't ask a question of nothing regarding properties nothing doesn't have.
11:55 trinque were ther a distinction between nil and false, I would expect (and) -> nil (and f) -> f
11:56 mircea_popescu but nil isn't on the possible results list.
11:57 mircea_popescu trinque aha, that lulzy "nature abhors a vacuum" theory hottie is shown demonstrating for yul brenner's "children" comes from right here.
11:58 phf trinque: you're very confused
12:02 trinque muh feelings.
12:02 Framedragger re. asking questions involving properties which do not exist, hah this is something that russell was actually battling with. what is the truth-value of the statement "the present king of france is bold"? some would say it does not have a value (because the term "present king of france" does not have a referent); russell would say "false".
12:02 mircea_popescu it is false.
12:02 mircea_popescu truth-value can not be nil.
12:03 Framedragger so all statements have truth-values, then?
12:03 trinque so then, I just said "is every element in this set true" and got a true on the empty set.
12:03 Framedragger (ruseell's theory of definite descriptions says "yes", other frameworks say "not necessarily")
12:03 Framedragger "bagumpa is blerpy" has truth-value?
12:03 mircea_popescu Framedragger if your semantics allows for it. whether they do or don't is not the same as the truth-value BEING nil however.
12:04 mircea_popescu i know it's commonly taught as equivalent, but saying "x doesn't have an y" is not the same as saying "x's y is nil"
12:05 trinque is this a "the void has all properties" thing ?
12:05 Framedragger note, strawson, frege would say that the king of france *expression* fails to provide a *(logical) proposition*. i.e., it does not have one. imho this is a valid thought, i.e. the matter is not 100% clear.
12:06 mircea_popescu note however that many languages (which aren't english) allow purely constructive usage ; such as adjectival forms constructed from nouns, the noun of a verb and the verb of a noun and so following. depending on semantics bagumpa is blerpy could well have a truth value - if say your definition of is includes an equivalency class for all elements starting with the same letter.
12:06 * Framedragger would like to carry on with phi of lang but will resume later, need to move self body
12:07 mircea_popescu trinque perhaps the cheapest way to visualise the difference between nil and falsehood is to contrast "ex nihilo nihil" with the value table for false-implication.
12:07 trinque so how do we get across the bridge from "the empty set has no members" to "every member of the empty set had blue hair" being true?
12:08 mircea_popescu all sentences spring from a false ; but nothing springs from the nil.
12:08 trinque I understand the difference, was saying lisp *should* have a separate false.
12:09 mircea_popescu ianale.
12:09 trinque nil is used everywhere to mean false, not say "this question can't be answered"
12:11 mircea_popescu well part of the problem is that nil can't be used to mean anything other than nil./
12:11 Framedragger (imho lisp's use of nil as false *is* incorrect, even if you disagree with "every member of the empty set had blue hair" having to be true. it *is* an unholy confusion, falsehood != nil.)
12:11 trinque aha
12:11 trinque SQL gets it right here.
12:13 mircea_popescu as to the blue hair issue : if you can't produce a member which has non-blue hair, the proposition stands ; and if i can prove you can't (which i prove by showing there's no elements in the null set) then the proposition evaluates to true.
12:13 trinque ah!
12:13 trinque proceeding from falsification I can understand.
12:14 Framedragger suddenly karl popper in set theory? :O *suspicious*
12:14 Framedragger but, consistent.
12:16 Framedragger that's all well and good when you can enumerate countable set elements exhaustively / have firm grasp of a term's extension, but what if you don't - any predicate stands true until shown otherwise?
12:17 trinque it feels practically wrong while logical
12:18 Framedragger maybe there could be an empirical-tmsr-set-theory thing :) but for logical analysis, that's weird imo. for one, ontological arguments in regards to god's existence may gain more grounds.
12:18 trinque if one proceeds from there the definition of truth gets pretty squashy
12:24 mircea_popescu Framedragger a proposition ~stands~ until falsified. and is true once it can be showed it can't be false.
12:24 mircea_popescu if i were to endeavour to prove all primenumbers larger than 2 are odd, you'd count yourself satisfied if i showed a number that's prime and larger than 2 can not exist, yes ?
12:25 phf you're not asking for falsehood, when you're asking for nil-ness, so semantic confusion that arises from using same symbol for both concepts is almost always a theoretical problem. and when it's not, like in other situations of semantic ambiguity you can choose to be more precise. luckily people who like to solve theoretical problems of thinking-computing mismatch have moved away from lisp and are doing haskell now
12:25 mircea_popescu the proposition "four is a prime number" doesn't stand, because a factor is known ; the proposition "this and this rsa key is made of two primes" stands, but is not known to be true.
12:25 mircea_popescu lol phf up in arms.
12:28 mircea_popescu anyway, the problem generally is that "all things" have an ontology and a gnoseology, which is separate and so trivially separable even the greeks were privy to it (hence plato's ideal objects) ; except for the void, which is AT THE SAME TIME the absence of ontology and the plenarity of gnoseology. which is to say, the same "thing" at the same time doesn't exist (ie, as nil) and implies everything (ie, as "false").
12:28 mircea_popescu this duality then makes it a fine candidate for a "prime mover", which bothered the scholastics immensely, because they, much like the scholastics-lite version of smith in the us say, wanted to intercede their own agent in there, so he could do things and therefore their derpitude could matter.
12:29 phf i just found this thing, and this should've been that, and that should've been the other, va a fare in culo! :E
12:29 mircea_popescu fortunately, the people who like to solve theoretical problems of though/action mismatch moved on from logic and are doing "policy" nao.
12:30 * trinque should bitch about programming moar often; what a ride
12:33 mircea_popescu anyway. for completeness let it be stated that perceived problems of thought-computing mismatch are thoroughly a matter of perception, and in principle can not be fixed (other than fixing the perception). it's the fundamental problem of "ai", as derided often enough here (see the "what if you name the procedures something other than "understanding" etc ; see also chomski's attacks on "ai" centered on the constructed repeating
12:33 mircea_popescu strings)
12:34 mircea_popescu ((and mp was never as unimpressed with chomski as he was when the guy tried to deploy a cantor proof lite without saying so.))
12:34 mircea_popescu the core of it being that computing is not thought.
12:35 asciilifeform one problem that purveyors of sad-schmuck 'maths' chronically suffer from is the expectation that a consistent model has to mesh with naive child's conception of 'N apples' arithmetic.
12:36 asciilifeform see, e.g., the cantor crackpot i linked in last week's l0gz. 'oh noez, infinities!11'
12:36 mircea_popescu i still love the captatio of that sort of guy. it always reduces to "here we show this is controversial". as if THIS has some sort of merit or value.
12:43 deedbot http://www.contravex.com/2016/12/16/i-came-to-buy-a-smile-today/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - I came to buy a smile today.
12:47 Framedragger that's swell guys but a bit of a non sequitur neh. that being said, yea "if you try to formalize fleshworld, you're gonna have a bad time" :)
12:47 Framedragger (inb4 mp quotes last sentence from tractatus logico philosophicus) :D
12:47 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584175 << This kind of thing ftr is pointedly useless tweeting of one's feelings.
12:47 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 16:58 phf: trinque: you're very confused
12:47 trinque what was never volunteered in the thread is the practical usefulness of the behavior as seen in the programming language mentioned
12:48 trinque "If everyone agrees to fire the nukes, fire them."
12:48 trinque then your list of everybody was empty because squashy world. then nukes fire.
12:49 * Framedragger agrees. (but fwiw i don't think it's legit even in terms of logical analysis, even before practical considerations)
12:49 phf oh, shit, we've got a reddit consensus over here
12:51 mircea_popescu kinda fine illustration of why consensus can never be a sound basis for action
12:51 Framedragger another non sequitur
12:51 Framedragger without addressing points herein
12:51 mircea_popescu "the avoidance of suffering can never be a point of policy, seeing how the simplest solution is immediate mass extermination." AND "consensus can never be the basis of action because the null set always agrees."
12:51 trinque "all" in python is a control structure around a loop, not a term in a boolean statement
12:53 trinque !!v F9F77A40226329ADB52E978F9C046D702962EFA3BDBA76168CCA8DA883792E32
12:53 deedbot trinque unrated phf.
12:53 Framedragger wtf is this shit anyway. even if it's a logical operator, and then, look: it's an AND underneath. and you all know the very-noncontroversial truth-table for AND. true iff for every member, predicate applies. NOT vice-versa falsification goofyness.
12:53 Framedragger jeebus, chill
12:53 trinque it's ok, guy can only type so much with one hand on keyboard.
12:54 asciilifeform lolwatisthis
12:54 mircea_popescu a dramatic development!
12:54 asciilifeform pythagoras's boat or wat.
12:54 mircea_popescu Framedragger what's the definition of every for null set ?
12:54 Framedragger !$ prop7
12:54 scriba Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen.
12:54 mircea_popescu so then, goofyness.
12:55 Framedragger mircea_popescu: notice, the "all" in python takes a predicate
12:55 trinque aha.
12:55 mircea_popescu hey, i'm not here to defend extant programing language design choices.
12:55 mircea_popescu but i shall discuss logic with you, if you do not appease us.
12:55 Framedragger uh? how'd *you* define "all" in that case?
12:55 * trinque appreciated the discussion, learned.
12:56 mircea_popescu i think it's a fabulous testament on the very matters at hand that the ~only guy who has a very introspective, quiet, slow and complete approach to thinking/speaking got derated for emotionals.
12:57 mircea_popescu HAD HIGHER EXPECTATION FROM YOU phf !!!
12:57 Framedragger hey i thought trinque unrating phf was a stupid reactionary thing. don't use this as a red herring.
12:57 mircea_popescu but it's only red inasmuch as it's a herring
12:57 * Framedragger adjusts tone
12:57 Framedragger :D
12:59 Framedragger anyway, i agree that there is a way to construct an "every" so that given a null set, it spits out true. however, "every" of what? usually there's a predicate, and then the way you'd test "every" with a predicate is that you run that predicate on every element encountered. and you test that it *obtains*, not that it *does not obtain*.
12:59 mircea_popescu "every nonexistent thing"
12:59 mircea_popescu amusingly all null sets are the same set.
12:59 Framedragger ^ true re latter, sure.
12:59 asciilifeform and hey remember when cantor and kronecker derated each other..
12:59 mircea_popescu lol
13:00 Framedragger but then if you want to entertain the latter "check if any *does not obtain*", you will have a "empty set if holder of *all* properties"
13:00 mircea_popescu you can't test for all properties.
13:00 Framedragger ( and amusingly under classical ontological argument, empty set will be god :D )
13:00 mircea_popescu yes i said that!!1
13:01 mircea_popescu also practical, at that. god can stay god for as long as gets in no one's way.
13:01 Framedragger *internal framedragger thought process*. "ok, so, maybe mp is empty set.. and he wants to be god.. AHH" :D
13:01 BingoBoingo !!v F82354639AF453DA437A70D37194DEF5F5BB2B10AECAC839DC5A64AD0793FA9E
13:01 deedbot BingoBoingo rated phf 2 << Kiln dried, solid work wrapping Republican proceedings with webs
13:01 phf i usually just switch context when stupid shit is said, but this time i politely pointed it out, which tbh produced an opposite effect of what i expected. in polite circles when somebody goes as far as to point out that somebody is confused, it's an invitation for further introspection, not to loudly double down.
13:02 asciilifeform ^
13:02 mircea_popescu eh russkis.
13:03 BingoBoingo trinque is Texan where confused is a synonym for sucking cocks. It's a cultural soft spot.
13:03 BingoBoingo Just not a polite word in his culture
13:03 mircea_popescu holy shit we are now having diversity in tmsr.
13:03 Framedragger hmmm. so we have both http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584200 *and* http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584272 ; i think this entails a logical explosion of "everything is true" :p
13:03 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 17:13 mircea_popescu: as to the blue hair issue : if you can't produce a member which has non-blue hair, the proposition stands ; and if i can prove you can't (which i prove by showing there's no elements in the null set) then the proposition evaluates to true.
13:03 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 18:00 mircea_popescu: you can't test for all properties.
13:04 mircea_popescu does it ?
13:04 Framedragger well, okay, i'm not sure. but all predicates obtain in null set.
13:04 Framedragger i don't know how a logician can entertain the latter. well, many things can be entertained, but it's not exactly.. how shall i put it.. ontologically economic?
13:04 trinque it wasn't reactionary at all. now all my ratings of phf are 10.
13:05 Framedragger :D this thread
13:05 mircea_popescu dude what are you on about. ontological economy of the null set ?
13:06 BingoBoingo trinque: Just 10, or Aleph(10) ?
13:06 Framedragger null set is sorta fat under your view
13:06 Framedragger nobody likes fatsos
13:06 Framedragger q.e.d
13:06 asciilifeform also folx regressing to the use of wot as reddit upvote ?
13:06 * davout quietly popcorns
13:06 mircea_popescu don't stereotype alf, we're doing diversity day.
13:06 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Nah, I just forgot to ever rate phf for his work.
13:06 asciilifeform not you, BingoBoingo .
13:07 asciilifeform microscope --- bestest hammer.
13:07 mircea_popescu i really appreciate though that this topic can still get the blood going. you should see what it did to the monks of 1016.
13:07 asciilifeform or the pythagoreans
13:07 Framedragger mircea_popescu: just to clarify so you don't think i'm trying to fuck around, i mean that all predicates would be true under null set. i don't find that to be a good idea. that's all
13:08 mircea_popescu there's an ancient quote about the wine vessel aleph of a party, with 3+ being the breaking of furniture
13:08 mircea_popescu considerations of null set clearly are better than wine.
13:08 BingoBoingo lol
13:08 BingoBoingo Framedragger: Then don't linger in any null sets?
13:08 mircea_popescu Framedragger you don't so far find it to be an idea altogether, as best it can be determined.
13:09 Framedragger here's a compressed internal model: "mircea_popescu wants truth-conditions of predicates in set theory to abide by a kind of falsification-based criterion."
13:10 mircea_popescu this isn't actually what i said though.
13:10 mircea_popescu i just pointed out the method works ; didn't say it's the only approach.
13:10 Framedragger (and just for the record, i'm interpreting any remarks by anyone here charitably, assuming no snide, and trying to be snide'y myself.)
13:10 Framedragger okay, fair.
13:10 asciilifeform how come nobody barfs from multiplications by 0 yielding same result no matter what is the multiplicand, but predicates being true under the null set -- different matter ??
13:10 mircea_popescu asciilifeform this distinction stands at the very root of naive notions of "i'm creative" vs "i'm good with math"
13:11 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: expand ?
13:11 mircea_popescu ok.
13:12 Framedragger because first of all these are not the same thing. we would first have to introduce, say (as an example), peano arithmetic atop set theory, and go from there. "multiplication" is a diff beast. why not division? etc etc.
13:12 mircea_popescu it's not just that computing isn't thought ; what happens in the brain is also not reason. as far as the logic is concerned things may be whatever they are, but in the objective development of the subject there's an i-ontology and a world-ontology. this disjunction is or is not resolved in time ; but from the subjective development it was never a problem in the first place.
13:13 mircea_popescu Framedragger we need no such thing, "0" means the same in the language of the commutative ring R as "nill" means in the natural language above.
13:13 mircea_popescu it's just whether one is inclined to allocate either both of these domains to i-ontology, or just one of them.
13:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform does that answer ?
13:14 Framedragger waitwait, algebra, okay [i'm trying to actually follow]
13:15 Framedragger mircea_popescu: as regards that particular point, you are probably right. but what do you mean by "i-ontology"? the latter becomes wibbly-wobbly
13:15 Framedragger seriously, i'll write an mp-bot with markov model to rebuke any arguments people throw at me. i'll reap ca$h.
13:16 mircea_popescu i mean there's a set of expectations (this is what an ontology, ie, list of items and predicates, always is) for the self ; and ANOTHER one for the world.
13:17 mircea_popescu what some psychologists then turn around and measure as "integration". but in any case, it's trivially evident that ~the world~ may be good or bad, but not the subject. observable at all scales, from the freeranged girlfriend of your choice to the us propaganda discussing aleppo/mosul.
13:17 Framedragger okay. can you give an example? "for the self" is too continental-philosophy ;)
13:18 mircea_popescu yes. derps at dept of state GENUINELY BELIEVE that they "did what they had to" in mosul and the russians are being evil criminals in aleppo.
13:18 asciilifeform nobody afaik tries to play table tennis by tying racket to his cock, but for some odd reason various folx walk around mathematicizing with the same undisciplined organ they hallucinate the self with
13:18 mircea_popescu if girl a sees girl b drop a vase girl a thinks girl b is clumsy ; if girl a sees girl a drop the same vase girl a tihnks the vase is slippery.
13:19 Framedragger mircea_popescu: re. "integration", heh have you by any chance read any of jean piaget? iirc he did quite a bit of "logical system development in children, integration" etc. may be a curious read.
13:19 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you may be surprised by that rocket thing ; iirc i posted a guy attached to a car.
13:19 mircea_popescu yes.
13:21 * Framedragger off, bbl. plox to be kind
13:21 mircea_popescu in any case - mental models of logic, as with mental models of anything found in nature -, are approximations. the same mechanism that allows a guy to isolate 0* from null.predicate allows one all sorts of psycho-imunological responses that are rather requisite to maintain the subjective notion of the self ~in a format comprehensible to itself~!
13:21 mircea_popescu that's the major restriction, and the deep source of alf's comment above
13:21 mircea_popescu (ie, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584223 )
13:21 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 17:35 asciilifeform: one problem that purveyors of sad-schmuck 'maths' chronically suffer from is the expectation that a consistent model has to mesh with naive child's conception of 'N apples' arithmetic.
~ 29 minutes ~
13:51 trinque I did not have a crisis of self over learning the reasoning behind the current design of WoT db.
13:51 trinque nor here.
13:52 * mircea_popescu believes.
13:52 trinque if we're doing "where I come from", "shut up about your feelings regarding the person and get to the meat", was it.
13:53 * trinque appreciates the mircea_popescu whallopings because they are immensely educative.
~ 54 minutes ~
14:48 BingoBoingo Gold: "A Feminist World"—an future energy company, the Feminist Alternative Potash Corporation, wishes to mine for salts in the WIPP site. Although the team comes across the warning signs, once it becomes clear that they were written by a group consisting of mostly older white men, they dismiss them."
14:48 BingoBoingo ^ From DEO Report on nuclear waste security
14:48 BingoBoingo *DOE
14:48 mircea_popescu wut ?!
14:50 BingoBoingo From a group hypothesizing ways a nuclear waste site could be breached in the future.
14:50 mircea_popescu oh i see, the old "chucka hunter-gatherer party warms self on rtg innards"
14:51 BingoBoingo Other scenarios include compulsively drilling robots, and Roger Verian treasure seekers.
14:51 mircea_popescu good to know feminist is how you say chucka in usian
14:51 BingoBoingo Final possibility is in 10,000 years theme park erected on site and site not having been breeched is a sucess.
~ 19 minutes ~
15:11 asciilifeform ahahahahaha the 'we'll pretend breeder reactor never happened so to prop up petroworld' folx.
15:11 asciilifeform they are always great for a lolball.
15:11 asciilifeform (for n00bz/readers -- long-lived nuke waste is ~optional~)
~ 24 minutes ~
15:36 Framedragger asciilifeform: as in, nuclear waste storage is a propped-up issue/narrative? interesting
15:40 asciilifeform Framedragger: correct. it is possible to carry on fission with < ~100 yr.-halflife exhaust. But It Would Be Wrong (tm) (r) because ohnoez, 'reactor indistinguishable from weapons cycle' and ohnoez nonpetropowered world.
15:42 Framedragger ahh. i guess in the same vein, "stop what you're doing iran because it's weapons, and wrong"
15:46 mircea_popescu tis not so plain an' simple as all that alfie. notwithstanding that yeah, prolly breeder reactors are going to take over as we run out of space to put the waste ; nevertheless they're more expensive an' complicated and etc. simply larger bar.
15:47 mircea_popescu current used types are yet cheaper ; mostly because uranium turned out to be more plentiful than anyone realised in the 50s, and because the cost of waste storage is not properly accounted.
15:47 mircea_popescu that 2nd lobe will change the economics, but in decades from now.
15:48 asciilifeform very much cheaper, esp. since cost of breeder, properly accounted, includes obliteration of usg AND petrolizards
15:49 asciilifeform which ain't cheap
15:49 mircea_popescu yeah well ; to create a new set of miners.
15:54 mircea_popescu anyway. the problem of very long lived actinides (like iodine 129) is certain to eventually drive burner designs. even if they're run as two separate installatiosn as currently the case for some insane reason (really, germany burns up uranium in light water reactor, then ships the leftover by train to france to be reburned in a special burner. could have done all in one place but hey.).
15:57 mircea_popescu anyway. afaik both russia and japan still run significant (ie gigawatt) breeder designs
16:03 BingoBoingo Oh, the joys of living in small town land. In anticipation of freezing rain, the "city" sprinkled the good BLUE ice melt on hills.
16:14 Framedragger http://i.imgur.com/Dz73av4.jpg << lul
16:16 mod6 that ice-rain stuff is the worst.
16:20 BingoBoingo Nah, it's normal
16:21 mod6 you like everything being coated in ice? it's rare here, since it just usually snows, but when it does, power outage everywhere.
16:22 mircea_popescu yeah it can be brutal. had my patio furniture turned to sculptures once ; it looked damn pretty but everything was soldered in place.
16:25 mod6 yeh, it is very pretty actually. but just awful beyond that factor. haha.
16:27 BingoBoingo It's not enjoyable, but it is normal. Far from being "the worst"
16:29 BingoBoingo The summertime plague of "100 and 100" is worse by far.
16:31 trinque the peace of nobody else being outside is - at least for a city dweller - lovely. no such respite in the south.
16:32 BingoBoingo Aha, trinque gets it. The outdoor null set!
16:33 trinque lol. see this thing gets clearer and clearer.
16:37 BingoBoingo Nah, eventually the ice cracks, refreezes, and gets cloudy.
~ 18 minutes ~
16:56 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: carlos ghosn is understandably well known in the auto industry. he's a true lebzilianenchman (lebanese-brazilian-frenchman), meaning he has a strong aesthetic sense but he's also quite the fierce deal-maker. only in the last 5 years has akio toyoda risen to ghosn's level as an overall strategist, product developer, and brand manager. alan mullaly and martin winterkorn were the only other two
16:56 pete_dushenski of that same visionary calibre, but these latter two stepped down in the last couple of years (from ford and vw, respectively). i'm not persuaded that the rest of the lot, even say sergio marchionne, are anything more than bankruptcy artists slithering from swindle to swindle.
16:56 pete_dushenski but yea, ghosn's quite the boss.
16:58 pete_dushenski in addition to his dual-ceo jobs at renault and nissan, ghosn also recently took over managing the fumbling mitsubishi, of which his alliance now owns a third.
16:58 mircea_popescu aha!
16:59 * pete_dushenski was always one of those weird 'car guys' who fancied the machinations of the industry more than the greasy bits.
16:59 mircea_popescu and some ru misventure.
17:01 pete_dushenski 'avtosvaz' wtf that is.
17:01 pete_dushenski not gaz, not zil, not trabant, that's all i know
17:01 asciilifeform trabant?!
17:02 asciilifeform sometimes i get impression that folx are posting from a parallel world
17:02 * asciilifeform pulls out balalaika to adjust reactor and turn the bear in to the kgb
17:02 mircea_popescu trabant would actually be a great brand under which to roll up all the vc/sv "revolutionary tech"
17:03 * pete_dushenski sees that avtovaz makes lada, scolds himself for ignorance.
17:04 pete_dushenski !~google electric trabant
17:04 jhvh1 pete_dushenski: Sadly, It's True. The Electric Trabant Is Real. | WIRED: <https://www.wired.com/2009/09/electric-trabant/>; Trabant nT - The Project - Trabant nT: <http://www.trabant-nt.de/365/en/the-project.aspx>; Trabant nT - The Project - Your Opinion: <http://www.trabant-nt.de/375/en/the-project/your-opinion.aspx>
17:04 pete_dushenski ^^
17:06 pete_dushenski anyways, looks like ukrainians, peruvians, chileans and bolivians can buy new lada. even republic of south ossetia!!! but not can, usa, arg, etc.
17:07 asciilifeform cheap cars are banned in usa.
17:07 asciilifeform have been for decades.
17:07 pete_dushenski eh bull. you've got $8000 hyundai and mitsu shitboxen.
17:07 asciilifeform auto loan is one of the whales on which the elephants stand, right down there with real estate racket.
17:08 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: where do i buy these
17:08 pete_dushenski so not quite $5k dacia logan, admittedly, or tata nano, but ustards literally pay less for cars than anywhere else in the world accounting for currency.
17:08 pete_dushenski (if not accounting for ppp)
17:08 ben_vulpes http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584149 << would you elaborate?
17:08 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 16:37 mircea_popescu: speaking of which ben_vulpes : how would you feel about adding a rsync-like interface for wotpaste through rsa sessions ?
17:09 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: link to the 8k auto plox, i could use this
17:09 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: you've heard of car dealerships ? they're like computer stores, except for cars.
17:09 pete_dushenski wonderful things.
17:09 asciilifeform yes and there are no 4figure price tags there
17:09 asciilifeform haven't been since i was a boy.
17:09 asciilifeform not at a ~new~ auto lot anyway.
17:09 phf cheapest i found was 18k for some of the kia models
17:09 asciilifeform ^^
17:09 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes i'm not altogether certain how it'd work, but basically i'd like it if mimisbrunnr allowed me to buy storage on wotpaste. i could pay from trinque 's deedbot once it's done ; and i should be able to buy by the gb of storage or by the tb of traffic.
17:10 mircea_popescu maybe it could give me credentials on !%cred ?
17:10 ben_vulpes uci by any other name...
17:10 mircea_popescu very limited, storage / web only.
17:10 mircea_popescu gotta start somewhere.
17:11 mircea_popescu basically all you have to get together is a rsync-like and an elastic store/web infrastructure.
17:12 ben_vulpes "rsync-like" has rather a few assumptions baked in
17:12 mircea_popescu enumerate plox.
17:13 ben_vulpes transport, and auth for two.
17:13 mircea_popescu well evidently the tmsr-rsa isn't ready, so i'm guessing ad interim a scheme like this could work
17:14 ben_vulpes i may be thick, by 'rsync-like' implies to me some amount of shell access for l*
17:14 pete_dushenski phf: asciilifeform my research says that the nissan micra less than cad$10k, which is about $usd7.5, but sadly for you both, our good friend carlos ghosn saw fit not to sell it to you lot. sfyl ?
17:14 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: and in india, 4k, even more 'sfyl' etc
17:15 mircea_popescu 1. user says !%cred ; 2. mimisbrunnr replies with link to rsa-encrypted user/pass/url combination for, eg, a ftp session ; 3. if i share the url, i share the url, with whoever i want ; 4. you meter and bill ; 5. !%destroy kills it
17:15 asciilifeform as i said -- usa bans cheap auto. because usury.
17:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: seems like you want 'g' after all
17:15 mircea_popescu which one was g ?
17:15 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: there's also this idea, prevalent and very much the norm in car industry, of 'dealer may sell for less'.
17:15 asciilifeform (i described exactly this scheme , in march iirc )
17:15 mircea_popescu link ?
17:16 asciilifeform 1s
17:16 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes ideally 4 works like, billed on 5 or else when X qty of btc is due, say 0.1 or w/e.
17:16 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it was the thing that touched off the block ciphers thread
17:17 mircea_popescu and evidently you'd have to have a !%prices
17:17 * mircea_popescu checks if !% is someone already lol
17:17 pete_dushenski tbot!
17:17 mod6 yeah
17:17 mircea_popescu so it is. heh. !W
17:18 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski wtf happened to !Q ?
17:18 ben_vulpes why no more top-row bot trigger combinations?
17:19 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes it's concentric from !
17:19 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-02#1394069 << thread re subj
17:19 a111 Logged on 2016-02-02 15:53 ascii_butugychag: so there's a proggy i've been testin'
17:19 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: concentric?
17:19 pete_dushenski !#s iQ
17:19 a111 230 results for "iQ", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=iQ
17:20 mircea_popescu pete_dushenski i mean in the bot thing on your site.
17:20 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes yes, !A is closer to ! than !&
17:20 BingoBoingo <pete_dushenski> eh bull. you've got $8000 hyundai and mitsu shitboxen. << Maybe in Double Norte Americano, but in Single Norte Americano those left in the 1990's
17:20 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: o i know, i just thought we gave it out.
17:20 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: a man with two hands upon the kb will more easily type !)
17:20 ben_vulpes !+ even
17:20 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: go and try and sell 8k auto when ~mandatory~ airbag is ~3k
17:20 mircea_popescu asciilifeform aha, like that.
17:21 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes don;t you hold shift with the right ?
17:21 pete_dushenski mircea_popescu: lobbesbot
17:21 mircea_popescu ah kk ty pete_dushenski
17:21 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: don't you hold shift with the left?!
17:21 pete_dushenski http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-14#1541939
17:21 a111 Logged on 2016-09-14 18:57 lobbes: Aight. I'll set lobbesbot to !Q
17:21 pete_dushenski lol i just mistyped !Q as iQ is all.
17:21 mircea_popescu nope. when typing commands i use the right for the right shift, the fuck finger for ! and the index for whatever else.
17:22 mircea_popescu therefore bot commands will be known as fucksticks.
17:22 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: AHA, these things pete_dushenski is raving about are stricly Canadian thing.
17:22 * pete_dushenski also uses right shift for commands
17:22 ben_vulpes and you two are strictly talking about irc interfaces?
17:23 mircea_popescu actually on meditation i almost never use left shift. cuz my left thumb is on ctrl/macro
17:23 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'g' was result of my frustration with trb's plaintext tcp
17:23 * ben_vulpes has a whole wad of key chords, irc a vanishingly small fraction
17:23 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes well no, i get a ftp and a wwb for the trouble.
17:23 mircea_popescu asciilifeform you wanna give him the code or what ?
17:24 pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: it's mostly that we just get shittier models here, eg. micra. but obv. with weaker currency we pay more for same model. this is thankfully compensated by being richer in btc/localfiat terms.
17:24 mircea_popescu www* not wwb
17:24 ben_vulpes control, escape, meta these are all swappable between hands on my setup
17:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it needs tmsr-rsa (i ain't releasing anything with aes or koch's idiocy)
17:24 mircea_popescu eh it'll be fine.
17:24 asciilifeform and tmsr-rsa needs rng.
17:24 mircea_popescu when that happens, we can upgrade.
17:25 BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Anyways the solution to the "wheels for alf" problem is he needs three 1990's Lexus IS 300's from which to construct a one superior example.
17:25 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: it so happens that i have a working auto
17:25 mircea_popescu i bet he drives like, a honda.
17:25 pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: <pete_dushenski> eh bull. you've got $8000 hyundai and mitsu shitboxen. << Maybe in Double Norte Americano, but in Single Norte Americano those left in the 1990's << is mexico null norte americano in bb's paradigm ?
17:26 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Then why seeking 8k new auto
17:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: almost
17:26 mircea_popescu husqvarna ?
17:26 asciilifeform it's an ancient 'acura'
17:26 BingoBoingo Kubota?
17:26 pete_dushenski ties in nicely to earlier mega-thread!
17:26 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes do you get the idea ?
17:26 asciilifeform but i'd sure like to not have to pay 5figs for its replacement when it finally crumbles.
17:27 BingoBoingo pete_dushenski: Mexico is Median Americano
17:27 ben_vulpes of the rsync-alike? somewhat. the fucksticks, i do not see.
17:27 mircea_popescu gotta be moar patriotic, alf. buy gm, help the great again along.
17:27 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Just get two more identical cars for parts!!!
17:27 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: anyways, don't get hung up on initial capital outlay, even if you're thinking of financing. tco (total cost of ownership) is the name of the game. ask ben_vulpes.
17:28 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes eh, the command codes are inconsequential. i mean the rsync.
17:28 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i barely have where to keep 1
17:28 * trinque actually in the market for new vehicle as of yesterday.
17:28 ben_vulpes trinque: finally ded, eh?
17:28 mircea_popescu try and eat dropbox market why not :)
17:28 ben_vulpes what was the last straw?
17:28 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Then assemble the best of the parts into best possible car sooner?
17:28 trinque vw wagon finally gave up the timing chain ghost, also exhaust blew into coolant system
17:28 ben_vulpes hoho
17:28 trinque it was just old as shit and drove in too many different climates
17:28 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i haven't anywhere where to assemble
17:29 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: 0 pavement that isn't a city street.
17:29 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: interesting idea, i'll chew on it
17:29 BingoBoingo How much is one of those garage sized "self storage" things go for around your parts?
17:29 mircea_popescu worx
17:29 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: $maxint
17:29 pete_dushenski trinque: what has two thumbs and loves the car shopping for other people game ? this guy!
17:31 ben_vulpes trinque: get a lotus elise
17:31 * trinque seriously contemplating used 4runner with low mileage
17:31 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: when mine rusts away, i might not even replace it, 20k usd buys a great many cab rides. probably more than i'd need in the 5yrs that a 20k-usd machine costs now.
17:31 trinque driving up mountains / on beaches > *
17:32 asciilifeform *lasts
17:32 BingoBoingo trinque: Just break down and get 5 Saturn L-series
17:32 ben_vulpes pickup + elise
17:32 ben_vulpes itt: excellent advice
17:32 trinque lol
17:32 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: if only you lived back in great ru motherland, you could have perfect post-apocalyptic people's 4x4 : http://www.lada.ru/en/cars/4x4/3dv/tth.html
17:32 mircea_popescu maybe in buenos aires. in wash dc 20k buys like 150 cab rides
17:32 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: ~200
17:32 asciilifeform depending on to where
17:33 asciilifeform and that's about how many times i leave the house in 2-3 yrs.
17:33 mircea_popescu 2-3 not 5 yo.
17:33 asciilifeform yes. but it approaches !
17:33 mircea_popescu meanwhile here, cab from city end to city end is like 20 bux
17:33 asciilifeform and perhaps i could leave house -- less yet.
17:33 mircea_popescu AND these people drive like monkeys on jenkem
17:34 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: "amazon prime nao!"
17:34 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: aha, such as.
17:34 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Here is your next vehicle, took ~4 minutes to find https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/5905446961.html
17:34 ben_vulpes for some, there are few joys like burning petrol with friends.
17:34 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i never understood the point in buying these
17:35 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: see the earlier 'total cost' point
17:35 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: low maintenance costs
17:35 trinque if I were in an area with trains I'd go without a car for a while. wouldn't be the first time.
17:35 asciilifeform low if you have a garage.
17:35 trinque PDX is perhaps one of the best places for this.
17:35 BingoBoingo Low insurance costs
17:35 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: high 'randomly stuck places' cost.
17:35 BingoBoingo What?
17:35 pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: have you tried installing eulora on a mac ?
17:35 ben_vulpes trinque: recent 'snowpaclypse' affected me /not one whit/, as i could stroll to the train and be in city center more-or-less on domenad
17:35 asciilifeform littoral combat car.
17:35 ben_vulpes pete_dushenski: once a very long time ago
17:36 ben_vulpes phf is your man for that
17:36 pete_dushenski mhm. k. i'll bug him.
17:36 ben_vulpes i don't think it's quite as simple as 'brew install eulora', although it was close
17:36 trinque ben_vulpes: this among the things I miss.
17:36 BingoBoingo Find other alf car candidate https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/5922091027.html
17:36 ben_vulpes trinque: 'tis a wonder of socialist engineering
17:36 BingoBoingo Only $500 more
17:37 asciilifeform BingoBoingo compulsively collects 'lemons' or wat.
17:37 ben_vulpes neighbor of mine was whingeing about the cost of the light rail, "o noes it'll never pay for itself" "my man, it got me to move to this neighbhorhood. give it a decade and you'll make the difference up personally with home value increase."
17:37 BingoBoingo Car is not lemon just because it turns 13 years old. In Cuba car is still young at that age!
17:38 pete_dushenski BingoBoingo: but car ~is~ lemon if 13yo ford. esp explorer
17:38 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: a 2000s auto is a lemon after 5-7 yrs.
17:38 * ben_vulpes looks at 04 pilot about to crack 200k outside
17:38 ben_vulpes nope
17:39 asciilifeform eh ben_vulpes is not a civilian, he gentoos his autos
17:40 ben_vulpes possibly 'lemon' if you can't get in a car and hear mid diff wobble, possibly lemon if you don't do the sale at a dealership and pay 100 for the safety inspection before purchasing, possibly lemon if all sorts of 'civilian'
17:40 ben_vulpes alternative is 'new tax'.
17:42 BingoBoingo $2350 https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/cto/5922271737.html
17:44 ben_vulpes > 202k mails
17:44 mircea_popescu lol!
17:45 ben_vulpes fuck, buddy
17:45 ben_vulpes that's a good lookin truck
17:46 BingoBoingo If $2500 dollar car lasts 5 years averages to $500 per car/year. Would take much unexpected bullshit to make expensive.
17:51 ben_vulpes srs
17:52 ben_vulpes "you know, babe, instead of a single car that cost 35K, we could have.../35k of cars/"
17:54 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: i'd actually rather have a trabant, if they could be had, at least they were cheap, than these monstrosities that drink petrol like airplane and die without warning in traffic
17:54 BingoBoingo Put on a camper shell and you have a FUCKGOATS transporter
17:54 ben_vulpes http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/5919119785.html << be still my heart
17:54 BingoBoingo What die without warning? Plenty of warnings!
17:55 pete_dushenski http://bringatrailer.com/auctions/ << plenty of solid, well-cared-for metal for under 10k here alf. as the lots cover the continent, you can even make a road trip (blog story!) out of the adventure. also gives you a chance to play autions without playing eulora.
17:55 shinohai Oh gawd ben_vulpes ... the trunk on those things can sleep 6!
17:55 ben_vulpes shinohai: all the more room for cleats and helmets
17:55 ben_vulpes why drive a minivan when you can drive an EIGHTIES CADILLAC i aska you
17:55 * shinohai agrees
17:55 asciilifeform http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3145342016203910@naggum.no.html << see also
17:56 asciilifeform ' I recently bought a fountain pen. it cost the equivalent of about 1500 throw-away ball pens. 1500 ball pens would have made me very frustrated, but this sleek, elegant pen made me happy.'
17:56 ben_vulpes back on cadillac tindr
17:57 ben_vulpes omg or this deville http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/5912437603.html
17:57 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: it is not enough to buy a lemon, i should also travel to some shithole to do it?!
17:58 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: dude, walking out your front door is 'travelling to some shithole'. and no one will bring new car to you! so might as well live a little. remember how fun chicago was ? or ba ?
18:00 asciilifeform problem is that i dun actually ~like~ 'car ricing'. auto is best when it is forgotten about every day except when there is no way to escape driving somewhere, best when it 'stfus', like one's appendix.
18:00 * ben_vulpes has several hondas, they are precisely this.
18:00 * trinque wonders if after USocalypse, he too will think everything is terrible.
18:01 pete_dushenski http://archive.is/QDzJl << ben_vulpes will like. a fleetwood piece penned by my older pal / newer sparring partner jack baruth
18:01 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: ~several~ ?!
18:01 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: toyota then. lexus if you sell a million fuckgoats.
18:01 asciilifeform everyone but asciilifeform collects rustbuckets?!
18:02 trinque "teh yankees have always produced plastic blue jeans"
18:02 trinque lel
18:02 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: sell a couple, buy airplane, those at least are actual fun
18:02 trinque the shit works both ways y'see!
18:03 BingoBoingo Anyways since it is clear alf needs to stick to Jap metal https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/ctd/5922156298.html
18:03 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: btw the kazakh d00d on junkbay actually has mig engine nao
18:03 asciilifeform iirc you needed one
18:04 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: well, tbf, you put all your rust ~in your house~ with all those old pdps and alphas. at least we put ours in garages.
18:04 * asciilifeform has never ftr owned a pdp
18:05 asciilifeform but yes, unlike you rich folx, all of my rusty anchors have to fit in small space.
18:06 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: capital equipment is not for 'fun'
18:06 ben_vulpes mig engines are for 'fun'
18:07 BingoBoingo What about STFU buy used screams rich folk? If 2005-later cars suck the solution is buy older!
18:09 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: classic 'gentooist' mistake in thinking: to forget to factor in the costs, not insignificant, of garage space, of time spent dealing with the finicky rusty bucket
18:09 asciilifeform of being stuck in roads, parking lots
18:10 asciilifeform of hunting for parts
18:10 asciilifeform you're still paying ~= what new auto costs, just more slowly, painfully
18:11 asciilifeform unless you are already 'grease man' and so it seems 'free'...
18:11 ben_vulpes "this dress took me thirty minutes and ten years to make"
18:11 asciilifeform aha.
18:12 ben_vulpes theorems to prove, belts to change...
18:12 ben_vulpes fwiw, i find car-swearing-time doubles as excellent design/thinking time.
18:14 asciilifeform i know a d00d who reassembles '50s 'golden age of usa' autos. has machine shop, and even multiple houses , which he rents out except for garage, in each - keeps 1-3 of these museum pieces
18:14 pete_dushenski "Uber relies on location services to ensure safe and accurate rides. In this latest version of the app, you’ll now be asked to allow location information collection from the time you request a ride through up to five minutes after it ends. This helps identify better pickup and dropoff points and helps customer service if you ever need to contact us about a trip. You’ll always be in control over what
18:14 pete_dushenski location information is shared and can adjust this at any time in your device settings." << from latest version update. one wonders, why only 5 minutes ? why not perma-on ? perhaps "coming soon" (™). also, this is alf's alterna-car! THIS!!!1
18:14 asciilifeform at one point i wanted to rent one of his houses, but learned that every single garage is in use !
18:14 asciilifeform so 0 plus over my current one...
18:15 ben_vulpes with the new monstrosity abutting the property line next door, i think i've finally bumped carport up on the list of shit to build
18:15 ben_vulpes omg may i relate how bad a job next door is doing
18:15 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: i used 'uber' a number of times, it is a very mixed bag
18:15 ben_vulpes so the vinyl, stamped-with-wood-grain siding showed up and was applied to the house
18:16 ben_vulpes and maybe 2 boards out of the whole 150' house length per row are matched at the ends
18:16 ben_vulpes which is particularly amusing, as this stamped material is designed to line up perfectly for the whole run
18:23 pete_dushenski asciilifeform: i've generally had very positive experiences with it. 95% excellent drivers. 75% decent cars. proper taxi flips those two figures but also costs 20% more and wait times are unreliable.
18:23 pete_dushenski ben_vulpes: sounds gnasty.
18:24 BingoBoingo <asciilifeform> you're still paying ~= what new auto costs, just more slowly, painfully << Nah at some point you just break up with car and get new $2500 car for another few years.
18:24 asciilifeform pete_dushenski: it's the picking-up part that works half the time.
18:25 BingoBoingo ben_vulpes: Problem is after stamped plastic leaves factory
18:25 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: when booting anode in 'solipsistic test network' mode with gen=1 and genproclimit=some reasonable fraction of local cores, i should see a few cores go to 100% utilization immediately, no?
18:26 ben_vulpes BingoBoingo: noshit.png
18:26 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: problem is anyhing that introduces 'will it start tomorrow??' into my workflow.
18:26 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: theoretically
18:27 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: In that case you want a 90s honda civic or 90s lexus 300
18:27 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: 'getinfo' is telling me '0 hashes per sec', which is troubling
18:27 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: that converts it to 'yes it started, but will it stop before i finish going to $place'
18:28 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: you have empty blockchain ? (genesis only ) ?
18:28 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Max cost of brake work on such a vehicle tops out at ~900 to ~1200 to replace entire "make car stop" system.
18:28 BingoBoingo Some expenses actually have a maximum
18:29 asciilifeform replace with ~what~ ?
18:29 asciilifeform where do i buy a NEW 80s merc motor.
18:29 pete_dushenski as someone who just oversaw ownership of early 2000s lexus is300 that put on 40k km in a year, i'm not sure i'd recommend it unless you're pretty handy. not hard to work on, but parts aren't super cheap, it's a bit dicey in the winter, it's a ~very~ firm ride, and it's soooo hard on consumables (gas and oil).
18:29 BingoBoingo new pads, calipers, rotors, drums, cylinders...
18:29 ben_vulpes asciilifeform: genesis only
18:29 BingoBoingo Oh, I thought you meant "will car stop when I press pedal" misread
18:30 BingoBoingo And we are not talking 80s merc motors unless pete_dushenski, we are talking 90s honda motors of which there are LEGION!
18:30 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: no, i meant 100% deterministic operation, starts when i turn key, stops -- when i unturn it, and never else.
18:30 asciilifeform BingoBoingo: new ones?!
18:30 BingoBoingo In which case 90s honda is solid choice
18:31 BingoBoingo asciilifeform: Rebuilt and remanufactered ones
18:31 asciilifeform not same.
18:31 BingoBoingo It's Honda, quintessential "idiot proof" car
18:32 asciilifeform 'dun worry, when your lemon dies, you can assemble a new one with parts from other lemons'
18:32 BingoBoingo Brand new anything gets problems too
18:32 BingoBoingo But more expensive ones because loan keeps "throw it away and replace" from being option
18:34 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: describe plox your experimental setup (node)
18:36 asciilifeform iirc you need '-gen' not '-gen=1'
18:37 ben_vulpes in bitcoin.conf?
18:37 ben_vulpes can be stuffed in cli
18:37 ben_vulpes np
18:37 ben_vulpes a recently compiled bitcoin node, running in its own directory, booted as `LC_ALL=C ./bitcoin -datadir=<local_data_directory> -debug -printtoconsole -gen'
18:38 asciilifeform http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/init.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#0398
18:39 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: what does getgenerate rpc call return .
18:39 asciilifeform ?
18:39 ben_vulpes getgenerate returns true, but fGenerateBitcoins is 0 at boot
18:40 asciilifeform it is always 0 at boot
18:41 ben_vulpes ah
18:41 asciilifeform there's 1 more thing
18:41 asciilifeform how the fuck do you intend to generate a block without any tx
18:42 asciilifeform iirc you need at least 1 on trb
18:42 asciilifeform in mempool
18:42 ben_vulpes first hundred and seventy went fine
18:42 ben_vulpes COOL
18:42 asciilifeform 170 of what
18:42 ben_vulpes blocks.
18:43 ben_vulpes first hundred and seventy only paid out to satoshi iirc.
18:43 asciilifeform and then stopped ?
18:43 ben_vulpes no then he sent some somewhere?
18:43 asciilifeform satoshi was not mining on trb eh
18:43 ben_vulpes true nuff
18:44 * ben_vulpes bbl, child has self-aborted nap
18:44 asciilifeform i have nfi presently what 0.1 or whatnot did re mining.
18:44 * ben_vulpes will read miner source for the site of this brilliance
18:44 ben_vulpes miner should work just fine without a tx in mempool wtf
18:46 asciilifeform btw, ben_vulpes , http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp?v=asciilifeform_add_verifyall_option#2790
18:46 asciilifeform it also dun work unless you have 1+ peer, apparently
18:46 asciilifeform (dun ask me why)
18:46 ben_vulpes ah
18:47 ben_vulpes dumb
18:47 asciilifeform this part of trb is completely virginal 0.5.3 btw
18:48 asciilifeform btw phf do you think we could get a src viewer in your vtron that makes this kind of thing apparent to naked eye?
18:49 asciilifeform like jurov's lxr, but vtronic.
18:49 asciilifeform (shows from where in the vflow is each line)
18:49 ben_vulpes neat idea
18:50 asciilifeform see, in my head, i can see who last touched what, but this continue forever, is not a substitute for actual tool
18:50 asciilifeform *cannot continue
18:51 * ben_vulpes bbl for real this time
18:52 asciilifeform btw i was mistaken, you don't need nonempty mempool
18:52 asciilifeform but you ~do~ for some perverse reason need a peer.
18:52 asciilifeform at least until we clean this piece up.
18:56 BingoBoingo latest rental box has crossed 300,000 in sync!
18:59 asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1583922 << ahahahaha i almost missed this gem
18:59 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 11:13 Framedragger: https://i.imgur.com/QC51FZz.png
18:59 BingoBoingo sync not being done for any great technical reason other than to remind self I'm getting old.
~ 27 minutes ~
19:27 mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584633 << tried it exactly once because in weird hipster company. they proposed i wait something like i dun recall 40 minutes ? i just called a guy.
19:27 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 23:15 asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i used 'uber' a number of times, it is a very mixed bag
19:30 mircea_popescu and holy shit that github retardation... people actually put up with this shit ? really ?
19:30 mircea_popescu fucking retards...
19:31 mircea_popescu i don't get it, how can anyone admit to having a github myspace nowadays ?
19:31 * asciilifeform has an ancient one with buncha fpga crud
19:32 * mircea_popescu is going to ask kids this from now on. "oh, you have a github ? aren;t you ashamed of yourself ?"
19:35 asciilifeform https://github.com/asciilifeform << believe or not.
19:36 mircea_popescu eh im not going there.
19:36 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: believe me -- you aren't missing anything
19:37 asciilifeform (unless you have an old cypress chip on something. in which case you are, lel)
19:39 mircea_popescu ill live.
~ 25 minutes ~
20:05 phf asciilifeform: would be pretty easy if it's just press with highlight and blame. xref a little bit more complicated
20:05 phf i guess one step at a time
20:06 mircea_popescu the blamebutton
~ 16 minutes ~
20:22 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/56D56D14AB5ED377D1CBEE0B27EB0D059473CA4C46DF9D4847CD06E024EE3967 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2726...8313 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.71.195.193 (ssh-rsa key from 80.71.195.193 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (getweb01.epte.fi. FI)
20:31 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/B6EE2D514424C138EC086E5840C712BFEA64874871CDB7D082605E69F709710B << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2694...4299 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '66.193.153.122 (ssh-rsa key from 66.193.153.122 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown US HI)
~ 28 minutes ~
21:00 asciilifeform in other lulz, https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/215-press-releases-2016/1460-statement-on-requests-for-additional-information-on-russian-interference-in-the-2016-presidential-election
21:04 trinque I suppose Julian Assange is KGB, too.
21:05 trinque if you truly believe he is still alive!1!!1
21:08 mircea_popescu nuts.
21:11 asciilifeform in other lulz, yet another honeypot, https://www.sigaint.org/incidents.html
21:11 asciilifeform 'Pay Shield, SIGAINT's Bitcoin mixer, is on separate infrastructure and was in no way affected. SIGAINT's Monero server is on separate infrastructure and was in no way affected. SIGAINT also runs 4 Tor middle nodes in support of the Tor network, these machines are also on separate infrastructure and were in no way affected.'
21:11 asciilifeform and moar 'we weren't raped!1111 really'
21:11 phf trully, хомячки закопошились. in unrelated lulz the phrase top hit is logs
21:12 asciilifeform nowai
21:12 phf (re senate)
21:12 asciilifeform aaaah i thought re хомячки
21:13 phf well, no the hamster thing is re senate, the top hit is re hamsters
21:13 mircea_popescu im confused.
21:16 phf i was saying re senate in the second phrase in reference to hamsters in first phrase, which was in reference to senate in the asciilifeform url, but the phrase itself was top hit for logs, which is referenced in the second phrase as top hit, and in the first phrase as unrelated lulz. how can this be any clearer
21:16 mircea_popescu this helped.
21:16 mircea_popescu could i now have it in haskell ?
~ 23 minutes ~
21:39 * mircea_popescu has completed some research, turns out the jewz did nyc and the russkis did trump 2016!
21:40 mircea_popescu is there no room for law abiding everyday americans anymore than you.
21:41 mircea_popescu but seriously, watching the great unracists trying to sell xenophobia in a desperate-if-doomed attempt to deny their own irrelevance is slightly surreal.
21:43 asciilifeform http://www.standard.net/Our-View/2016/12/07/DonaldTrump-AirForceOne-costs-Boeing-F35-HillAirForceBase-Utah-RobBishop-OrrinHatch-editorial.html << related
21:43 asciilifeform '...if Trump’s already calling for the cancellation of the Air Force One program, he could just as easily target the F-35 — and that’s a potential disaster for Northern Utah.' << ohnoez, 1,000,001 leeches might starve!
21:44 mircea_popescu heh
21:44 mircea_popescu f35 getting scrapped seems quite likely as it stands now.
21:45 trinque either before or after shot down.
21:45 asciilifeform no seeee it's the world's only bulletproof airplane
21:45 asciilifeform (...won't get anywhere near battle)
21:45 mircea_popescu sounds like the perfect item to supply the us carriers
21:46 mircea_popescu which idem, won't go anywhere near a warzone later than 1990s
21:54 phf relevant http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-this-is-how-the-carriers-will-die/all/1/
21:55 mircea_popescu myeah.
21:58 trinque http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584282 << I'm seeing that this "lowered into pederasty" thing is as endemic to the russian sphere as elliotism is to the states.
21:58 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 18:03 BingoBoingo: trinque is Texan where confused is a synonym for sucking cocks. It's a cultural soft spot.
21:58 trinque phf, where I got offboard with you was http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-16#1584235
21:58 a111 Logged on 2016-12-16 17:49 phf: oh, shit, we've got a reddit consensus over here
21:58 trinque I think I've long demonstrated that I don't cling to a disproved belief.
21:59 mircea_popescu i didn;'t think that was about you.
21:59 asciilifeform i reread the log twice and still at a loss re wtf that was about
21:59 mircea_popescu gents gotta remember though, teh r word's a fightin' word.
22:00 mircea_popescu anyway, i thought he was ribbing Framedragger because how dares he agree or something.
22:00 trinque it's on the record. I don't need to make more hay of it.
22:01 phf and yet you do
22:01 mircea_popescu lol this sounds like the beginning of a beautiful.
22:01 trinque I was going to leave it there. Did you have more nubbins 4th wall breaking in you yet?
22:01 trinque the appeal to the crowd there, and yet I'm the collectivist.
22:02 asciilifeform ...we have a crowd??
22:04 phf trinque: you lost your shit, cause i ruffled your feathers a bit, ~uncharacteristically~ you were ranting, in the popular style of the channel, but without any of the substance. you unrated me literally for busting your balls, the only reason is we're still on speaking terms is because you helped me out with the gpg key issue
22:07 phf this is the last thing i'm going to say on the matter, if anybody ~else~ has personal issues with me over what transpired i will address those only
22:08 mircea_popescu honestly i kinda enjoyed the day.
22:09 mircea_popescu of all the times in my life i had to explain to a sober judge in the morning wtf the fight was about, this'd have easily been my preferred choice
22:09 * trinque had a fine day; would've been better with drinks.
22:10 mircea_popescu "there was some disagreement over the true nature of nul lsets, and things went from there". way the fuck better than anything life served me up with.
22:10 mircea_popescu trinque i thought your car was on the fritz
22:11 trinque such is the burden of a volkswagen owner.
~ 55 minutes ~
23:06 deedbot http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/56D56D14AB5ED377D1CBEE0B27EB0D059473CA4C46DF9D4847CD06E024EE3967 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1588...0267 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '80.71.195.193 (ssh-rsa key from 80.71.195.193 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (getweb01.epte.fi. FI)
~ 27 minutes ~
23:34 shinohai http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-17#1584786 <> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2wilTC5Cs0
23:34 a111 Logged on 2016-12-17 03:11 trinque: such is the burden of a volkswagen owner.
23:43 trinque if it ran at all I'd offroad the thing until it blew up.
23:44 shinohai I imagine trinque more the baja buggy type?
23:48 trinque upside of texas beaches being shitty is nobody cares if you get drunk and do donuts on them.
23:49 trinque would've been pretty entertaining to be the only station wagon among the trucks
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