---

search trilema search all chans

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00:57	BingoBoingo	;;ticker--market all
00:57	gribble	Error: "ticker--market" is not a valid command.
00:58	BingoBoingo	;;ticker --market all
00:58	gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 399.37, vol: 10882.56721678 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 400.3, vol: 8384.13004 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 397.5, vol: 36247.56345948 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 382.2, vol: 6.22430836 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 399.00304, vol: 88223.39620000 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 414.544176, vol: 125.53458151 | Volume-weighted last average: 398.740525367
		~ 17 minutes ~
01:16	BingoBoingo	!up jimmy16
01:17	ben_vulpes	ugh cpp
01:17	ben_vulpes	fucking pointers and in place mutation
01:18	*	ben_vulpes breathes through the nausea
01:20	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33850 @ 0.00055963 = 18.9435 BTC [-]
01:21	ben_vulpes	AND NOW I BLESS THEE WITH THE HOLY BIGNUM THIS FUNCTION PASSES ALL AROUND ITSELF
		~ 30 minutes ~
01:51	BingoBoingo	https://lolcow.wiki/wiki/File:Gamerfruit.png
01:51	assbot	File:Gamerfruit.png - Lolcow Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ku4Ydl )
02:00	assbot	[MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 415 @ 0.00263136 = 1.092 BTC [+]
02:05	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57067 @ 0.00055677 = 31.7732 BTC [-] {3}
02:07	ben_vulpes	"As always when a large group of people without prior exposure to Jace are introduced to his world, every single existing theory on his authenticity was brought up and discussed in great detail, as were questions concerning the state of mental health care in the United States, the situation of veterans, and the practicality of using a Prius in a street race." << ladies and gentlemen, i present...my peers in the eyes of american law.
02:07	ben_vulpes	https://lolcow.wiki/wiki/Operation_Wu-Pocalypse
02:07	assbot	Operation Wu-Pocalypse - Lolcow Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1K0GgGH )
02:11	BingoBoingo	lol
02:12	*	BingoBoingo just stumbled upon this lulz catalog yesterday after getting my quarterly fix of CWC updates
02:15	ben_vulpes	"the reason why cops call it the web is because, The online is a 'Web' of lies and/or Computers are Satans kingdom on earth"
02:29	punkman	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1380404 nothing, it's a comedy sketch
02:29	assbot	Logged on 21-01-2016 23:23:04; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1380386 << da fuck does that even mean
02:41	BingoBoingo	Basically Ironman's that movie where batman finally spends enough Hodl to build a suit that lets him do all the things superman does
02:43	assbot	[MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 401 @ 0.00263798 = 1.0578 BTC [+] {2}
02:54	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53500 @ 0.0005567 = 29.7835 BTC [-] {3}
02:54	punkman	http://kuow.org/post/amazon-hires-homeless-workers-and-everyone-ends-disappointed
		↖ ↖
02:54	assbot	Amazon Hires Homeless Workers – And Everyone Ends Up Disappointed | KUOW News and Information ... ( http://bit.ly/1RCQmA0 )
03:01	BingoBoingo	http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=3692
		↖
03:01	assbot	JL: Insane Welfare Whore Alliance ... ( http://bit.ly/20isW4C )
		~ 15 minutes ~
03:17	BingoBoingo	punkman: from same wrap http://kuow.org/post/goat-rentals-take-seattle-first-day-amazon-home-services
03:17	assbot	Goat Rentals Take Off In Seattle On First Day Of Amazon Home Services | KUOW News and Information ... ( http://bit.ly/20itWpe )
03:23	danielpbarron	http://www.fastcompany.com/3055510/these-vibrating-yoga-pants-will-correct-your-downward-dog >> For example, if your hip is rotated too far inwards in warrior pose, a vibration will move across the hip in an outwards direction, like the guiding hands of a yoga instructor. When everything’s aligned, the tights give off a gentle "om" hum.
03:23	assbot	These Vibrating Yoga Pants Will Correct Your Downward Dog ... ( http://bit.ly/20iuqM2 )
03:26	danielpbarron	>> The Nadi tights, which were announced at CES and will be available for pre-sale in May, can survive up to 25 washes. << planned obsolescence, now for pants!
03:29	BingoBoingo	lol
03:29	punkman	you know there are clothes that can survive 0 washes
03:31	punkman	http://static1.squarespace.com/static/510e844de4b0837c157cabb1/t/569a060876d99c4f391154fe/1452934668171/Kayla_Varley-09.jpg
03:31	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1S8RSsr )
03:41	punkman	http://www.tilera.com/products/?ezchip=585&spage=614<< these would be fun for "industrial-strength node", at least after some parallelizing
03:41	assbot	500 - Internal server error. ... ( http://bit.ly/1S8SCO7 )
03:44	punkman	https://www.streakwave.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=CCR10098GS1S-PC&eq=&Tp=&o1=0
03:44	assbot	MikroTik&nbspCCR1009-8G-1S-PC - Cloud Core Router w/ 9 core Passive Cool ... ( http://bit.ly/20ivRKx )
		~ 19 minutes ~
04:03	BingoBoingo	http://www.oncaremedical.com/products/fall/liftSeat.oncare
		↖
04:03	assbot	OnCare LiftSeat - Powered Toilet Lift - OnCare ... ( http://bit.ly/20ixh7U )
04:17	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 158150 @ 0.00055619 = 87.9614 BTC [-] {4}
04:30	punkman	"The OnCare™ LiftSeat® Powered Toilet Lift™ features LiftTek™ core assistive technology" "patent-pending drop-in commode bucket"
04:33	punkman	http://www.oncaremedical.com/products/wound/dolphin.oncare pretty cool
04:33	assbot	Dolphin Fluid Immersion Simulation - Therapeutic Bed & Mattress - OnCare ... ( http://bit.ly/20izFeH )
		~ 43 minutes ~
05:16	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00055672 = 13.751 BTC [+] {2}
05:24	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43650 @ 0.00055903 = 24.4017 BTC [+] {2}
05:28	BingoBoingo	Hello TheNewDeal
05:30	TheNewDeal	oh hi there
05:30	BingoBoingo	How have you been?
05:32	TheNewDeal	so so, how bout you?
05:33	BingoBoingo	Not to bad
05:34	BingoBoingo	*too
05:43	BingoBoingo	They still out to get you?
05:44	deedbot-	[Qntra] FBI Begins Negotiations With Oregon Liberators - http://qntra.net/2016/01/fbi-begins-negotiations-with-oregon-liberators/
		~ 20 minutes ~
06:04	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31250 @ 0.00055672 = 17.3975 BTC [-]
06:06	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37350 @ 0.00055704 = 20.8054 BTC [+]
		~ 15 minutes ~
06:21	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49600 @ 0.00055751 = 27.6525 BTC [+] {4}
		~ 1 hours 4 minutes ~
07:26	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380835 << yeah well, that's sheer insanity. i wouldn't.
07:26	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 04:16:03; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my objection was to the notion of reading 600kB patches of spaces-to-tabs-every-line
07:40	mircea_popescu	my one question, and not to mod6 in particular, is : can unsigned int nSize = ECDSA_size(pkey); be trusted to not fuck up the size ?
07:42	mircea_popescu	and also, since we're taking out memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); in favour of, from what i understand, unsigned char *pos = &vchSig[0]; are these actually and in fact equivalent ?
		↖
07:42	mircea_popescu	especially after hanging out here i trust c++ about as much as php with these sorts of things
07:47	mircea_popescu	the wisdom seems to be that "don't fucking memcpy by hand, the compiler inlines (or even register-moves) most assignments itself and unlike you it fucking knows when to do it", but hey.
07:47	mircea_popescu	i can't help myself but suspect there may have been a good reason for the weird, even given the immense piles of pointless insanity scattered throughout the code.
07:54	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00055695 = 12.0301 BTC [-]
07:57	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380926 << did cosmo kramer (ex ceo, kramerica industries) end up hired as vp for fluentization and finally got to push through his pet project of homeless-driven rickshaws in new york or something ?
07:57	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 07:54:42; punkman: http://kuow.org/post/amazon-hires-homeless-workers-and-everyone-ends-disappointed
07:59	mircea_popescu	"If there is someone at this point who can look at Jace's insane rambling during this event and take it as a credible threat to Brianna Wu's life, they are either willfully misconstruing the facts or being intentionally alarmist to the point of complete credibility loss. " mno. they are being obtuse to the point of well adjusted, functioning ustard. how the fuck else does anything work in that country ? look at a dumb
07:59	mircea_popescu	lazy kid and write down "student", look at a weirdo babbling and write down "threat report", the whole meta-state survives out of categorical confusion of this sort.
08:01	mircea_popescu	"The number of video views rose to almost 40,000 within a day" << sigh. this is notable in what fucking alt-world ? i remember the earlier days of "omaigerd teh interwebs matter" when the numbers destined to impress the reader were in the millions. by now it's as if "consensus" has been achieved around the proposition that such a statement is impressive period, and the number's irrelevant. 40k people viewed every singl
08:01	mircea_popescu	e fucking concrete support in every town that has a subway that same day. what of it!
08:02	mircea_popescu	"On GamerGhazi, comments explaining that Jace was little more than an elaborate hoax were deleted, because they did not fit Wu's harassment narrative." <doh.
08:02	mircea_popescu	aaanyway.
08:06	deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 2.44000000 BTC on 'No' - BTC price to rise above PM price of 1oz of gold before Oct 2016 - http://bitbet.us/bet/1235/btc-price-to-rise-above-pm-price-of/#b16
08:15	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380928 << actually i'd say this is his best one yet. slowly a sort of milleresque dickensian balzac may emerge out of that fellow.
08:15	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 08:01:50; BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=3692
08:15	mircea_popescu	but in any case the improvement over time is marked.
08:21	mircea_popescu	Steevo moaned, “I can’t even afford a pizza for the wife and kid on Friday night << the depth of the fucking disconnect. i wouldn't even eat what he calls pizza, if it were free. in fact i'd have serious compunction giving it to some begging dude.
08:21	mircea_popescu	there must be some exaggeration involved, somewhere.
08:28	mircea_popescu	but, in other news, http://49.media.tumblr.com/1b5f941158bb4e3e22703dbaed3a75a8/tumblr_nllissMVc81upsme5o1_400.gif
08:28	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1OBThoZ )
08:29	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58350 @ 0.00056236 = 32.8137 BTC [+] {4}
		~ 16 minutes ~
08:45	punkman	http://3lproject.org/ lisp OS vaporware
08:45	assbot	The 3L Project ... ( http://bit.ly/1OBVpgo )
08:46	mircea_popescu	in other news : the title for stealing the highest traffic website doesn't go to the derps you'd expect, but to the russkis equivalent. http://jw.org
08:46	assbot	Jehovah’s Witnesses—Official Website: jw.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1OBVrFb )
08:47	punkman	huh?
08:48	mircea_popescu	dig jw.org
08:48	mircea_popescu	;; ANSWER SECTION: jw.org. 3471 IN A 212.1.224.74
08:48	gribble	Error: "ANSWER" is not a valid command.
09:02	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00056678 = 12.4692 BTC [+] {2}
09:03	shinohai	also known as the creepy people that stalk you in city subway terminals hawking magazines.
09:06	mircea_popescu	aha. apparently verboten in russia.
09:07	shinohai	Does that apply to all proselytizing though?
09:08	mircea_popescu	i'm sure if they could.
09:11	shinohai	http://i.imgur.com/DXUmKLZ.png?1
09:11	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1OBYJbq )
		~ 33 minutes ~
09:45	mircea_popescu	supposedly 4chan accepts bitcoin payments.... except when you go to pay them, they take paypal and the ccs. what sorta bs is this, are these people living in 2011 or somesuch ?
09:55	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13836 @ 0.00056535 = 7.8222 BTC [-]
09:56	jurov	http://www.newstarget.com/2016-01-21-biotech-scientists-now-raising-human-animal-chimeras-on-u-s-farms.html
09:56	assbot	Biotech scientists now raising human–animal chimeras on U.S. farms ... ( http://bit.ly/1WASQOL )
09:57	mircea_popescu	this has been going on for decades now.
09:57	mircea_popescu	lots of bunnies grew ears on their back etc
		↖
09:58	mircea_popescu	also someone tell newstarget.com that hostgator is stealing their 404s
10:00	PeterL	Biotech scientists now raising human–animal chimeras on U.S. farms ... << wasn't there already a thread about sheepfucking?
10:01	mircea_popescu	lol
		~ 28 minutes ~
10:29	thestringpuller	So Victoria from changetip in her youth: http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=97ef9c62-b97d-43bf-afe4-7dfc06d20559
10:30	mod6	morning!
10:31	mod6	<+mircea_popescu> my one question, and not to mod6 in particular, is : can unsigned int nSize = ECDSA_size(pkey); be trusted to not fuck up the size ? << Not very "warm and fuzzy" on the openssl trust factor either. Would some tests or debugging help around this part?
10:31	mircea_popescu	the problem with tests is that you can't test for something not happening.
		↖
10:37	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43900 @ 0.00056372 = 24.7473 BTC [-] {3}
10:41	mod6	!up ascii_butugychag
10:42	ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381007 << these were not chimeras ! but immunocompromised beasts
10:42	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 14:57:50; mircea_popescu: lots of bunnies grew ears on their back etc
10:43	mircea_popescu	yawell.
10:43	ascii_butugychag	in exactly the same sense that man who eats chicken is not a man-chicken chimera.
10:44	ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380965 << how could this possibly be true ?
10:44	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 12:42:36; mircea_popescu: and also, since we're taking out memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); in favour of, from what i understand, unsigned char *pos = &vchSig[0]; are these actually and in fact equivalent ?
10:44	mircea_popescu	hm ?
10:45	ascii_butugychag	these statements don't even refer to the same destination
10:45	ascii_butugychag	am i missing something ?
10:46	mircea_popescu	mmm nah just me being sloppy
10:46	ascii_butugychag	hm ok
10:48	mircea_popescu	da fuck is this.
10:49	mircea_popescu	memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); << so this takes nsize bytes from pchsig and copies them over where vchsig lies.
		↖
10:49	ascii_butugychag	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380926 << this kind of sad is well-known from the 'hired welfare fella and now he's poorer' thing
10:49	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 07:54:42; punkman: http://kuow.org/post/amazon-hires-homeless-workers-and-everyone-ends-disappointed
10:49	mircea_popescu	unsigned char *pos = &vchSig[0]; << this takes the pointer pos and points it to what vchsig is
		↖
10:49	mircea_popescu	right ?
10:49	ascii_butugychag	can just say vchSig
10:50	mircea_popescu	so i wasn't being sloppy.
10:50	mircea_popescu	my question is : are these two in fact equivalent. because we can end up with surprises in this sort of change.
10:50	ascii_butugychag	which is the other ?
10:50	ascii_butugychag	(other side of the equivalence)
10:51	mircea_popescu	dawg.... http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381029 and http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381032
10:51	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 15:49:10; mircea_popescu: memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); << so this takes nsize bytes from pchsig and copies them over where vchsig lies.
10:51	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 15:49:34; mircea_popescu: unsigned char *pos = &vchSig[0]; << this takes the pointer pos and points it to what vchsig is
10:51	mircea_popescu	c++ is fucking impossible to follow.
10:52	ascii_butugychag	both statements are correct
10:52	ascii_butugychag	but they are not equivalent
10:52	mircea_popescu	ok but aren't they intended to be functionally equivalent by the patch ?
10:53	*	ascii_butugychag goes to read the patch
10:53	mircea_popescu	http://dpaste.com/2EZJVXA.txt is what i'm working on atm
10:53	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1RXGjpF )
10:53	ascii_butugychag	aha already found it
10:53	ascii_butugychag	these are only marginally easier to read than to write...
10:54	ascii_butugychag	(which is why i normally like to write'em)
10:54	mircea_popescu	heh.
10:54	mircea_popescu	from what i hear from people who'd know, tis a common affliction.
10:54	mircea_popescu	nevertheless, the bit is in the horse's mouth : trb will be more read than wrot.
10:55	*	ascii_butugychag notices that boss is mysteriously missing
10:55	ascii_butugychag	perhaps he did not want to get marooned in this tower.
10:56	ascii_butugychag	(there is supposed to be a snow fall tonight in this part of the world, train stations will close, etc)
10:57	mircea_popescu	someone should someday write the anthropological study about the impact of katrina in the media. it's when derping pointlessly about the weather went from ridiculous to social expectation.
10:59	kakobrekla	since when do trains stop working if its snowing?
10:59	ascii_butugychag	i would have ignored it but there was much noise about preemptive closing of the trains
10:59	ascii_butugychag	which is a new thing
10:59	ascii_butugychag	lived here since '92 and it never happened.
10:59	mircea_popescu	kakobrekla since the infrastructure hasn'\t been maintained in 30 years.
10:59	ascii_butugychag	also they sent usg home
10:59	ascii_butugychag	even white house apparently skeleton-crewed
11:00	ascii_butugychag	(no word on whether obamitler is buttoned up inside or went off to the tropics)
11:00	mircea_popescu	meanwhile in the other best korea, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb1i-h-m3G4
11:00	assbot	Crazy Russian Snow Plowing - Train Snow Plowing - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpztRH )
11:01	ascii_butugychag	i suspect that usa isn't ~long~ enough to feature this scene
11:01	ascii_butugychag	(you need not only snow but rails that aren't traversed regularly)
11:02	mircea_popescu	a proper snowstorm can drop ten feet overnight.
11:03	thestringpuller	ascii_butugychag: shouldn't you be at home. you don't want to get stranded in the uranium mines.
11:03	ascii_butugychag	thestringpuller: nobody cancelled the uranium mines.
11:04	PeterL	what does DC get, like a half an inch at a time and they shut down? Up north here we don't blink at a foot of snow.
11:04	ascii_butugychag	PeterL: normally. result is that the place is grossly underequipped for anything like reasonable snow, and traffic grinds to a halt
11:04	ascii_butugychag	when there actually is some
11:04	ascii_butugychag	(which happens every coupla years)
11:05	PeterL	y'all are a bunch of pansies, afraid of a bit of snow
11:05	thestringpuller	PeterL: You guys have more than 1 snowplow for the whole state.
11:05	thestringpuller	PeterL: your roads are also the worst thing to drive on ever.
11:06	punkman	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuX4G3znpDE pretty cool
11:06	assbot	Rotary Snow Plow - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpArxo )
11:06	PeterL	just don't drink the water if you are driving through Flint
11:06	ascii_butugychag	doesn't help that d.c. roads are packed to 110% even without any snow or rain etc
11:07	ascii_butugychag	as for why they'd close the trains, i cannot say except that the latter are in a historic state of disrepair.
11:07	ascii_butugychag	every day one gets stuck, rails crack, various joys
11:08	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41798 @ 0.00055672 = 23.2698 BTC [-] {2}
11:09	ascii_butugychag	and dc metro dept. pulls interesting tricks - retains ~half the staff actually needed so that the remaining can work mandatory overtime and earn ~200K-usd
11:09	mircea_popescu	PeterL> y'all are a bunch of pansies, afraid of a bit of snow << ho i knew took a (well earned) vacation to morocco in the middle of the carpathian winter once. her fondest memory was that there was a tiny bit of snow just as she got ou of the bus, and everyone in sight was on their ass. "they have no idea how to walk on snow, the africans!"
11:12	mircea_popescu	!up terminal
11:13	PeterL	is that terminal as in cancer or terminal as in computer, or as in train station?
11:14	terminal	good question
11:14	thestringpuller	Grand Central Terminal is the train station
11:14	thestringpuller	Grand Central Station is the post office
11:14	terminal	it's cool and ambiguous
11:14	terminal	who knows
11:15	PeterL	ah, but who are you?
11:17	terminal	I'm a guy who's thinking about buying a significant amount of ETH
11:17	thestringpuller	Why?
11:17	thestringpuller	Guaranteed loss.
11:17	mircea_popescu	wow check it out, the things that exist.
11:17	shinohai	O.o
11:17	PeterL	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-01-2016#1376728 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-01-2016#1376731 << Later I realized why I missed the isomer joke: L is isomer of D, R is isomer of S, not quite interchangeable
		↖
11:17	assbot	Logged on 19-01-2016 13:40:52; *: adlai notes, as a humorous aside, that someday there needs to be a rock-off between PeterL and PeterR
11:17	assbot	Logged on 19-01-2016 13:41:39; mircea_popescu: lol no idea ? your isomer ?
11:17	terminal	Why a guaranteed loss?
11:18	thestringpuller	PeterL: you're a chemist right?
11:18	PeterL	yeah
11:18	mircea_popescu	PeterL hey, best humour is sloppy!
11:18	terminal	I'm a software developer who is interested in the ecosystem, I see a lot of practicality in ethereum. Mostly I'm just looking for longterm gains
11:19	mircea_popescu	terminal well, get in the wot and let us know how your trade went as far as long term gains.
11:19	terminal	wot?
11:19	terminal	Why the negative sentiment about ethereum here?
11:20	mircea_popescu	!s ethereum
11:20	assbot	529 results for 'ethereum' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ethereum
11:20	mircea_popescu	can start reading teh logs.
11:20	punkman	terminal: just salty that we didn't buy mp's cheap eth
		↖ ↖
11:21	mircea_popescu	hehehe
11:21	shinohai	kek
11:21	terminal	Thanks for that mircea
11:24	punkman	hey ETH's back to 0.00387
11:24	mircea_popescu	!up sergiohlb
11:25	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26700 @ 0.00056678 = 15.133 BTC [+] {2}
11:30	thestringpuller	punkman: so the suckers took the bait...
11:31	mircea_popescu	!up AdrianG
11:31	AdrianG	thx.
11:31	AdrianG	ethereum could have short-term momentum due to investors interest, its far more preferable to mention it in corporate pitches vs bitcoin.
11:32	thestringpuller	that's because investors seem to be borderline scandalous these days.
11:33	PeterL	obligatory http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/
11:33	assbot	The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies" on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1fsGWG5 )
11:33	thestringpuller	Bitcoin isn't yieling what they have come to expect, so lets through fiat at Ehtereum and see what happens.
11:33	AdrianG	terminal: scandalous how?
11:33	mircea_popescu	AdrianG if what you aim is to make money out of the vc circus, you're very much in the wrong spot.
11:34	thestringpuller	;;google site:trilema.com the problem of too much money
11:34	gribble	The problem of too much money on Trilema - A blog by Mircea ...: <http://trilema.com/2012/the-problem-of-too-much-money/>; Money, fucking and lying on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2014/money-fucking-and-lying/>; Let's dig a little deeper into this entire deflation "problem" on Trilema ...: <http://trilema.com/lets-dig-a-little-deeper-into-this- (1 more message)
11:34	thestringpuller	AdrianG: ^-obligatory
11:34	mircea_popescu	like every fashion-driven scam, gotta keep ahead of the wavefront, not sit behind.
11:34	AdrianG	i remember at the peak of btc 2013 heights, litecoin was something around 11% of the btc marketcap
11:34	thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: guess that's how TaT made bank on the ASICMINER scam.
11:34	AdrianG	some spillover is inevitable
11:35	mircea_popescu	heh, the usg can't afford to throw away half a bil just for this.
11:35	mircea_popescu	some spillover, sure.
11:35	thestringpuller	AdrianG: if you are trying to extract fiat profits from Bitcoin, you've got some learnin' to do.
11:35	AdrianG	thestringpuller: as for bitcoin not doing what investors expect, ethereum can be shoehorned into their needs much more easily
11:35	mircea_popescu	certainly.
11:35	thestringpuller	AdrianG: and this is good thing because?
11:35	mircea_popescu	the only problem with their "needs" is that their needs are a certain path to their own doom.
11:36	AdrianG	thestringpuller: good is subjective. its just a perception.
11:36	thestringpuller	AdrianG: there is sanity and insanity. You don't try to run a business with insanit expecting it to function.
11:37	thestringpuller	Most Bitcoin VC cirus shows are like watching a very long episode of the Profit without Marcus Lemonis.
11:37	AdrianG	why is using something like ethereum insanity?
11:37	thestringpuller	because Buterin has a big head.
11:37	mircea_popescu	what's your idea of "using" ?
11:38	AdrianG	thestringpuller: he's just very skinny
11:38	thestringpuller	They said that about Dib from Invader Zim and he obviously didn't amount to much.
11:38	thestringpuller	Just the insane musings of a derp with too big of a head.
11:39	AdrianG	mircea_popescu: i think a programmable ledger has legitimate uses. unfortunately for ethereum holders, those ledgers are going to be private and inaccessible from outside.
11:39	mircea_popescu	i have no idea why you think this is a use.
11:39	AdrianG	that it has uses?
11:39	mircea_popescu	the comet W52C2 also "has legitimate uses".
11:39	mircea_popescu	who's using it ?
11:39	AdrianG	banks are drowning in legacy code. anything that helps them to move away from it is useful.
11:39	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19100 @ 0.00056679 = 10.8257 BTC [+]
11:39	mircea_popescu	this is a very naive view.
11:39	AdrianG	even as just an experiment, really.
11:40	mircea_popescu	an unhappily married woman is drowning in sorrow
11:40	mircea_popescu	any cock rubbing on her is useful ?
11:40	mircea_popescu	what are we, 15 ?
11:40	mircea_popescu	malformed, dysfunctional, self-contradictory, defeated propositions aren't better than the currently chosen broken one. the broken one hasn't been chosen on technical merit.
11:41	AdrianG	what makes you so certain it has no uses whatsoever?
11:41	mircea_popescu	this is exactly why all the "oh, bitcoin needs x" "oh, bitcoin must or else Y will" bla bla is meaningless.
11:41	AdrianG	thats a very broad view
11:41	mircea_popescu	i like broads.
11:42	thestringpuller	AdrianG: you're failing to realize how terminal the system is right now.
11:42	AdrianG	thestringpuller: i never argued against that.
11:42	mircea_popescu	take your window, on the presumption that you are currently located in a room with one. this window of yours COULD be used as a door, to a larger degree than ethereum could be used to anything.
11:42	mircea_popescu	neveretheless... have you used it as a door ? will you ?
11:43	thestringpuller	AdrianG: Yes but you are arguing for trying to teach a sickly man to learn how to dunk a basketball.
11:43	AdrianG	why do you guys only speak in strawmen?
		↖
11:43	mircea_popescu	o.O
11:43	thestringpuller	Just because with cybernetics "he could" but should he?
11:43	mircea_popescu	illustrate this!
11:44	AdrianG	cryptographically signed txn ledger will simplify parts of audits
11:44	mircea_popescu	o noes they terminated terminal! YOU BASTIDS
11:44	mircea_popescu	AdrianG how does this make the window a strawman ?
11:44	AdrianG	they can just basically automate a lot of regulatory compliance and cut out humans
11:44	mircea_popescu	of course, the other way to automate regulatory bs is to ignore it until it goes away.
11:44	thestringpuller	^-this
11:44	mircea_popescu	seems much cheaper.
11:45	PeterL	<AdrianG> cryptographically signed txn ledger will simplify parts of audits << why do they need etherum for this? just sign bits of the normal ledger as they are made, why do you need to involve cryptocurrency?
11:45	AdrianG	PeterL: it would have nothing to do with cryptocurrency ofc.
11:46	AdrianG	ethereum as a cryptocurrency itself is probably useless.
11:46	thestringpuller	PeterL: better yet http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-01-2016#1374612
11:47	AdrianG	PeterL: it would be just a private instance, or a federated peg at best.
11:47	mircea_popescu	o.O
11:47	mircea_popescu	so...
11:48	AdrianG	and signing the normal ledger, is just a small part, programmability gives you a lot more flexibility to code business logic in.
11:48	thestringpuller	AdrianG: how does this not differ from: "it works by ben_vulpes, sultan of brunei, and king of saud, sending each other pgpgrams with signed chits of how many tonnes of plutonium each owes the other."
11:48	thestringpuller	Buterin's view of how a contract works is highly skewed.
11:48	AdrianG	thestringpuller: it differs in that an implementation already exists.
11:49	thestringpuller	except ethereum assumes all individuals in a contract act as machines. Better yet why not make them all machines!
11:49	mircea_popescu	AdrianG implementation is not per se valuable, for the sad reason that it is much cheaper to write code than to read it.
11:50	AdrianG	mircea_popescu: people tend to re-use existing stuff.
11:50	mircea_popescu	anyone in business will prefer to write de novo rather than audit the dubious code of the crowd of idiot kids gathered around that buteriun dude.
11:50	mircea_popescu	NOBODY reuses anything. this has not happened yet.
11:50	mircea_popescu	it's a delusion, born fundamentally out of a lack of business experience.
11:50	AdrianG	banks' software depends on thousands of libraries written by random hobos
11:51	AdrianG	it wouldnt be anything new
11:51	mircea_popescu	i guess by this argument we shall invest in hobos.
11:51	thestringpuller	AdrianG: actually it's mostly a lot of java/vb code written by indian d00ds.
11:51	mircea_popescu	thestringpuller he's technically correct, they just stole it and delivered it, but anyway.
11:52	thestringpuller	aha
11:52	thestringpuller	i've invested in hobos. not really an investment as much as charity.
11:53	thestringpuller	it's also better to pay them in 40s than actual money
11:54	AdrianG	thestringpuller: sure, random indian d00ds
11:54	AdrianG	its not qualitatively different from code written by random hobos
11:54	mircea_popescu	well, so get in the wot, look into v and be happy.
11:55	mircea_popescu	better investment than chasing cephaloids' dubious fortunes at mit.
11:56	PeterL	does trb debug.log grow infinitely?
		↖
11:56	AdrianG	look into v?
11:56	punkman	PeterL: it compacts on startup iirc
11:57	PeterL	so should I do something to it while it is running?
11:57	mircea_popescu	!v ascii_butugychag
11:57	assbot	Invalid verfication string.
11:58	punkman	PeterL: I guess you could rotate the log
11:58	mircea_popescu	o.O
11:58	mircea_popescu	!up ascii_butugychag
11:58	mircea_popescu	AdrianG http://trilema.com/2016/the-v-manual-genesis/
11:58	assbot	The V Manual Genesis on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NgC7ZS )
11:58	ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: i've been wondering, what the nazi variant of 'v' might look like
11:58	mircea_popescu	more links in thar.
11:58	ascii_butugychag	or does it even make sense to suppose that usg uses anything of the kind
11:59	punkman	probably involves smartcards?
11:59	ascii_butugychag	they have a bastardized pgp, for instance
11:59	mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag ever met a govt employee that welcomed accountability ?
11:59	ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: no, but i've met hordes who just ~loved~ faux-accountability
11:59	mircea_popescu	quite.
11:59	mircea_popescu	so what would the paper car look like ?
11:59	mircea_popescu	well... as much as a car without combustion as possible.
11:59	jurov	they do try at NASA, but they do it in meritocracy way
12:00	mircea_popescu	didn't nasa get its funding cut for this ?
12:00	jurov	i.e. ennumerating mistakes, not people
12:00	mircea_popescu	lol, because mistakes, rather than people, are finite. gg.
12:00	jurov	dunno about funding, but it's nice example to avoiding accountability
12:01	mircea_popescu	i still recall the feynman conundrum. to me it's the archetype for this.
12:01	ascii_butugychag	it is not enough, for a classic bureaucrat, to avoid accountability; he has to put in scar tissue that gives the appearance thereof
12:01	mircea_popescu	remember ? the o rings ?
12:01	trinque	ascii_butugychag: sounds like a centralized CVS/SVN repo where sigs "vote" for what constitutes the master branch
12:01	ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: i think everybody remembers the o-rings
12:01	mircea_popescu	trust, but verify!
12:01	ascii_butugychag	it was when feynman became a popular cult figure
12:01	jurov	oh i meant pirely software development
12:01	mircea_popescu	o ?
12:02	jurov	no idea about possiblility of signing hardware
12:02	*	mircea_popescu privately bets alfie will mention the three russian stooges thing.
12:02	ascii_butugychag	i think i already mentioned them in the logz
12:02	mircea_popescu	aok
12:03	ascii_butugychag	interestingly, i did some digging,
12:03	ascii_butugychag	turns out that the '3' system was possibly saharov's idea
12:03	ascii_butugychag	and borrowed by korolev
12:03	ascii_butugychag	rather than vice-versa
12:04	ascii_butugychag	but i'm probably the last one alive who gives half a shit
12:04	mircea_popescu	seeing how the men in question were unfortunate to die befgore the bible.
12:04	mircea_popescu	i suppose in the future there will be the principal cause of war :
12:04	mircea_popescu	different branches in the wot disputing which earlier node to be credited with x.
12:04	ascii_butugychag	as in sunni vs shia ?
12:05	mircea_popescu	quite, but with crypto verification.
12:05	ascii_butugychag	l0lzies
12:05	mircea_popescu	!up terminal2
12:05	mircea_popescu	terminal2 http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/ and for that matteer
12:05	assbot	What the WoT is for, how it works and how to use it. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NpJ1vR )
12:05	mircea_popescu	!help
12:05	assbot	http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot
12:06	kakobrekla	help isnt adequate for joining wot really, this is better http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets
12:06	assbot	first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets [bitcoin assets wiki] ... ( http://bit.ly/1J73Z7o )
12:07	mircea_popescu	ah kk.
12:07	mircea_popescu	can we has !wot ?
12:07	kakobrekla	prolly
12:08	terminal2	Thanks mircea
12:08	PeterL	can we has !wot <nick> where the links get sent from assbot to <nick> instead of dumping in chan?
12:09	PeterL	proly want to limit the number of times assbot responds to stop spam vector?
12:09	kakobrekla	noobs are often blind to pms
12:10	PeterL	oh, nevermind then
12:10	mircea_popescu	it doesn't hurt anything being linked in chan anyway.
12:10	mircea_popescu	gets indexed better.
12:11	mircea_popescu	but if you';re sick of seeing it you should be able to config your client to ignore that line.
12:13	terminal2	I've never had a GPG key before lol. I will make one tonight. On ETH: While I don't see a reason for established companies to re-use ethereum - I think you need to account for all the companies nerd kids will create ontop of it - which will grow
12:13	terminal2	Migrating a DAO off of ethereum would not be an easy thing to do in most cases
12:13	terminal2	It's a very sticky platform
12:14	PeterL	all the "companies" will be amazing
12:14	assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!
12:16	terminal2	Only takes a couple of breakout successes to make ETH take off I think
12:20	thestringpuller	terminal2: oh like ASICMINER
12:20	mircea_popescu	terminal2 by this reasoning you really should invest in toilets.
12:21	terminal2	Don't know anything about ASICMINER
12:21	mircea_popescu	think of all the growth the kids will create on top of their parent's food!
12:21	terminal2	Toilets would have been great to invest in before they were owned by everyone
12:21	terminal2	Now everyone has a toilet
12:22	mod6	<+mircea_popescu> my one question, and not to mod6 in particular, is : can unsigned int nSize = ECDSA_size(pkey); be trusted to not fuck up the size ? << Just to touch back on this again - I'd like to see more of this. If you happen to be reading through the code, and there is a question, ask - let's discuss.
12:23	thestringpuller	terminal2: ASICMINER actually delivered on their IPO, their stock skyrocketed. However due to insane management that seems to be very common in the mining world, the company imploded.
12:23	mod6	And 'you' in the sense of all of us. Not just Mr. P.
12:23	mircea_popescu	mod6 kinda what my thinking is.
12:24	mod6	I think it's vital that we all gain a good grasp of what the intricacies are in this code - myself included.
12:24	thestringpuller	d00d. once you hit block 280k it chugs so slow.
12:24	mod6	ya it happens.
12:24	thestringpuller	100k blocks to go ~_~ eta like 1 more week
12:24	thestringpuller	and this is a decent PC.
12:24	mircea_popescu	mod6 the thing is, that 10`000 we took out - while very sensible to be out and belongs out - could very well had been covering up for say an openssl bug.
12:25	mircea_popescu	like it or not this is the level of scrutiny that patches have to face, even if it makes develoipment slow.
12:25	thestringpuller	well openssl will eventually need to be excised as well, what to replace it with, I don't know.
12:26	mircea_popescu	while cutting out crud we could get away with less poring, but as we add / change / etc it becomes ever more problematic.
12:27	thestringpuller	mircea_popescu: wouldn't unit testing coverage prevent some of this from becoming a problem?
12:27	ascii_butugychag	no.
12:27	mircea_popescu	it will catch all the bugs it catches
12:27	mircea_popescu	and not catch all the bugs it doesn't catch.
12:28	ascii_butugychag	!s dijkstra testing
12:28	assbot	1 results for 'dijkstra testing' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=dijkstra+testing
12:28	mircea_popescu	nono, i prefer my own quote! http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381014
12:28	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 15:31:49; mircea_popescu: the problem with tests is that you can't test for something not happening.
12:28	mircea_popescu	!up ascii_butugychag
12:28	thestringpuller	so what? like bug that exists that needs to exist?
12:29	mircea_popescu	no, like bug whose wot you're not in.
12:29	thestringpuller	If you have expected behavior there should be a way to measure if that behavior changes due to something introduced into the system.
12:30	thestringpuller	i don't know in practice how "unknown unknowns" affect the system.
12:33	ascii_butugychag	there are exactly three mechanisms known for creating correctness:
12:33	ascii_butugychag	in order of decreasing idiocy,
12:34	ascii_butugychag	1) fits-in-head. also known popularly as 'knowing precisely wtf you're doing'
12:34	ascii_butugychag	2) mathematical proof
12:34	ascii_butugychag	3) testing.
12:35	ascii_butugychag	increasing idiocy.
12:35	ascii_butugychag	l0l
12:36	trinque	the goddamned deedbot node would not sync no matter what... untli I changed his external IP
12:37	ascii_butugychag	trinque: if it's not a seekrit: why does deedbot use a heathen bitcoinatron ?
12:37	trinque	because his new trb node is at 152k
12:37	trinque	*352k
12:37	ascii_butugychag	ah hm
12:41	mod6	<+mircea_popescu> like it or not this is the level of scrutiny that patches have to face, even if it makes develoipment slow. << i very much agree with this methodology.
12:42	mircea_popescu	trinque i suspect this is what drove alf's ideas of you know, deliberate sabotage against trb nodes.
12:42	mircea_popescu	you're not the first to see such wonders.
12:43	trinque	I have seen ample evidence to suggest it in deedbot's logz
12:49	trinque	in related news, deedbot- will be back when I figure out why it can no longer connect to freenode, having only changed his external IP
12:49	ascii_butugychag	here's a riddle. why no straight tcp ddos against any of'em ?
12:49	ascii_butugychag	why this wankery.
12:50	ascii_butugychag	what, usg botnet only works on trilema ?
12:50	ascii_butugychag	i suppose the theory is that we are morons, and will conclude that 'trb is broken, can't sync' ?
12:52	trinque	ascii_butugychag: http://dpaste.com/1R6PACY.txt << for example
12:52	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1OLyQDK )
12:53	ascii_butugychag	that looks like a full relay ?
12:56	trinque	ascii_butugychag: was there something else I was supposed to say aside from NICK to get going?
12:59	trinque	!up ascii_butugychag
12:59	ascii_butugychag	PASS and USER ?
12:59	ascii_butugychag	e.g.,
12:59	ascii_butugychag	PASS none
12:59	ascii_butugychag	NICK luser
12:59	ascii_butugychag	USER blah
13:02	punkman	terminal2: Now everyone has a toilet << not true, and good chance you'll make more money investing in toilets than ETH
13:04	punkman	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380943 BB even shared toilet investment opportunity earlier
13:04	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 09:03:57; BingoBoingo: http://www.oncaremedical.com/products/fall/liftSeat.oncare
13:06	ascii_butugychag	i prefer mircea_popescu's idea
13:06	ascii_butugychag	have been thinking about it
13:07	ascii_butugychag	it would probably look something like a nagant cylinder turned up
13:07	ascii_butugychag	(7-seats variant ?)
13:07	mircea_popescu	ascii_butugychag incidentally, i suspect you'll find the latest quite very interesting, if you manage to wade through it all.
13:07	ascii_butugychag	but really in his harem scenario i'd imagine he would build something more like a horseshoe shape, so the users can face one another
13:07	ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: the grep output ?
13:08	mircea_popescu	no, on trilema\
13:08	*	ascii_butugychag reads
13:13	thestringpuller	Can we get a graph like this: https://camo.githubusercontent.com/43c79ffbe5c5db49c01d5546ce1b57b2f1e83b21/687474703a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f6f62634c6a44442e706e67?
13:13	thestringpuller	subtract the question mark at the end :(
13:15	mircea_popescu	does 0.12 even do any validation anymore ?
13:17	thestringpuller	no.
13:17	thestringpuller	I want to see where the "churn" is in TRB.
13:17	thestringpuller	I might do another sync just to construct a graph.
13:18	thestringpuller	the above option wasn't using --verify-all
13:18	mircea_popescu	heh.
13:18	mircea_popescu	so in that sense, my os copies files a lot faster than that.
13:18	mircea_popescu	seriously, 10 hours for 100gb ? what is this, maxtor days ?
13:19	trinque	well. I certainly didn't change the configuration to get that to connect.. merely the origin
13:20	mircea_popescu	trinque see, problem fixed.
13:20	trinque	AWS being the host was certainly a problem.
13:21	mircea_popescu	no i meant sarcastically, cus it parted.
13:21	trinque	o lol
13:21	trinque	he'll be back again shortly
13:23	ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: that article makes me think of (i entirely forget the source) - approximately - 'every man's life has a time when things were working correctly'
13:23	mircea_popescu	heh
13:23	thestringpuller	trinque: you found a new host?
13:23	mircea_popescu	so you suspect it's me, do you ?
13:24	trinque	thestringpuller: yep, though not one I've passed any judgement on yet, other than "is elsewhere"
13:24	ascii_butugychag	the observation about 'girl is not annoying because it is a girl' is spot-on
13:24	ascii_butugychag	i verified it experimentally at minimal cost
13:24	ascii_butugychag	one does not need to be mircea_popescu to test this.
13:24	mircea_popescu	thanks god.
13:26	ascii_butugychag	reading mircea_popescu's recollections of the '90s porn set feels a little like another one of my predilections, memoirs of su physics/math folk
13:26	ascii_butugychag	same feel of 'alas sunken atlantis'
13:26	thestringpuller	!s girl is not annoying because
13:26	assbot	0 results for 'girl is not annoying because' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=girl+is+not+annoying+because
13:27	ascii_butugychag	thestringpuller: this was re: the latest trilema article
13:27	thestringpuller	aha
13:27	mircea_popescu	i don't think anyone sane was seriously thinking the situation may survive. it was painfully obvious we're riding a self-limiting wave.
13:27	mircea_popescu	then again, granted, most of those involved were pretty nuts.
13:28	ascii_butugychag	'gold rush' is always quite similar, no ?
13:29	mircea_popescu	pretty much, yeah.
13:29	mircea_popescu	!up ascii_butugychag
13:36	ascii_butugychag	mircea_popescu: the observation about 'camgurlz are a magnet for the attention of subhuman bois' seems unsurprising
13:36	mircea_popescu	they drive otherwise "normal" boys into subhumanity.
13:36	ascii_butugychag	... isn't that sorta like 'toilet is a magnet for shit' ? yes, sometimes people plant flowers in one. but speaking as to its purpose.
13:37	ascii_butugychag	srsly?
13:37	mircea_popescu	this isn't a castigation of them. but the system is a chute down not a chute up.
13:37	ascii_butugychag	how does that work ?
13:37	mircea_popescu	let's see. suppose a land, fertile but unimproved. to get anything, you have to actually get it.
13:38	mircea_popescu	we know this does promote all the industries - people will hunt and make farms, and then need lumber and tv sets.
13:38	mircea_popescu	suppose now a desert with small pellet dispensers, where a little food can be had.
13:38	mircea_popescu	we know this promotes all the africas - people will sit around and invent ways to insure they don't upset the gods.
13:39	ascii_butugychag	ensure?
13:39	mircea_popescu	myeah
13:39	mircea_popescu	both, really, but myeah.
13:39	ascii_butugychag	and farmers do their share of 'must not upset the gods'
13:39	mircea_popescu	there is necessarily no ensuring "the gods". just you know, transactional insuring 'em.
13:39	ascii_butugychag	because land doesn't actually behave so differently from a food dispenser
13:39	mircea_popescu	granted.
13:40	mircea_popescu	yet the effects of tiny modulation in environment are indisputably major in the mold that grows out
13:41	ascii_butugychag	i'd conjecture that 'africanization' is at its height when the 'food dispenser' ~responds to human buluceala'
13:41	ascii_butugychag	~
13:42	mircea_popescu	and here it does.
13:42	ascii_butugychag	(it isn't about whether the pellets are small, as in a zoo, or large, as in a harvest season - but that zoo ~answeres prayers~ and rewards wheedling)
13:43	mircea_popescu	the size of the pellet is imo the important part.
13:43	ascii_butugychag	how so ?
13:43	mircea_popescu	consider. the first major invention that "revolutionized" mankind was... agriculture. it reduced the societal bolus from "whole bison, if you get it" to "a fraction of a crop, if you well save it".
13:44	mircea_popescu	this reduction similarly took the world from greece to rome, give or take.
13:44	thestringpuller	;;ticker
13:44	gribble	Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 382.58, Best ask: 382.82, Bid-ask spread: 0.24000, Last trade: 382.6, 24 hour volume: 46720.82048297, 24 hour low: 378.77, 24 hour high: 414.49, 24 hour vwap: None
13:44	mircea_popescu	or if you prefer, from sioux to irish.
13:45	mircea_popescu	the next one, actual industry, reduced the bolus further (the chinese never developed industry because yes, their goverment had already reduced it to "one bowl of rice")
13:45	mircea_popescu	degradation of society generally follows the success of technology in reducing the size of the minimal harvest.
13:45	mircea_popescu	which is why we're to expect all sorts of wonders from micropayments ; all of which wonders begin and end with caged ratpeople.
13:46	ascii_butugychag	small pellet leads to thinking of next pellet always. as in the professor who described to me how crack is smoked
13:46	ascii_butugychag	this makes sense.
13:46	mircea_popescu	more importantly, small pellet makes it LESS important to live.
13:48	mircea_popescu	the hunter didn't fear death ; the farmer feared death only, not drudgery ; the factory worker can't even think death, fears drudgery, not anonymity.
13:49	mircea_popescu	then finally the "literate" or "white collar" or however you call the despicable postmodern otaku, intellectuals I suppose ? can't even comprehend drudgery, fears anonimity, i can scarcely look down to see what's next.
13:50	ascii_butugychag	whaddayamean can't comprehend drudgery
13:50	mircea_popescu	just that.
13:50	ascii_butugychag	we got drudgery on tap
13:50	ascii_butugychag	in every godforsaken cube farm tower
13:50	mircea_popescu	anyone bothered by it ?
13:50	mircea_popescu	anyone even seem to notice ?
13:50	ascii_butugychag	everybody?
13:50	mircea_popescu	ha-ha.
13:50	ascii_butugychag	why do you suppose just about all of these people kill themselves ?
13:51	ascii_butugychag	(usually slowly, with drink etc. but.)
13:51	mircea_popescu	i would not presume these people do anything.
13:51	mircea_popescu	as the expression goes, "it happened"
13:51	mircea_popescu	why does it happen to them that they died ? no one knows, for drudgery can't be thought.
13:51	ascii_butugychag	i can readily observe at least a subset of things they choose to do, when i find myself readily able to avoid doing them
13:51	ascii_butugychag	ergo they choose to?
13:52	mircea_popescu	im not so sure.
13:52	ascii_butugychag	for instance, drinking yourself into catatonia every friday is optional
13:52	mircea_popescu	to quote, " Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?"
13:52	mircea_popescu	what's your model for optionality ?
13:53	mircea_popescu	for me and for the waitress, showing up at the restaurant is optional, right ? and so it is for the cat.
13:53	ascii_butugychag	for eater - optional
13:53	ascii_butugychag	for waitress and cat - perhaps less so ?
13:54	mircea_popescu	well, you'll need a model.
13:54	mircea_popescu	maybe for cat most of all. how about the beef ?
13:54	ascii_butugychag	the beef is not a playing character...
13:54	mircea_popescu	but the waitress is ?
13:54	mircea_popescu	why, cuz you never fucked a cow ?
13:54	ascii_butugychag	is, if only residually
13:55	ascii_butugychag	i must admit this glaring omission. i have not.
13:55	mircea_popescu	how about a waitress ?
13:55	ascii_butugychag	approxim.
13:55	mircea_popescu	well then, that explains it :D
13:58	ascii_butugychag	but i find a good bit of what these people do to themselves to be readily optional, at least in the sense that eating one's nagant is optional
13:58	mircea_popescu	"the beef is not a playing character for not having escaped from its pen ; the waitress is a playing character for not having escaped from its pen." << shall need some more sandbags. why hate the cow, what, if you prick it does it not bleed ?
13:58	mircea_popescu	if you poison it, does it not die ?
13:59	ascii_butugychag	i've never seen a human woman land by mistake in a cow pen and end up processed for beef
13:59	ascii_butugychag	while i have seen thinking people end up waiting tables etc
13:59	ascii_butugychag	wasn't it in mircea_popescu's recent article where 'common man must be pumped through a sewer tunnel but oughta have a small escape hatch' ?
14:00	mircea_popescu	yeah, well, as a matter of fact some cows do make it out!
14:01	mircea_popescu	http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/67793636.jpg << cow cowrdashian
14:01	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Pb4uOI )
14:04	thestringpuller	"Apollo astronauts called their urine dumps "The Constellation Urion" and said it was very beautiful."
14:06	thestringpuller	latest from the gavin-stooge: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/426nee/ambitious_protocol_limits/
14:06	trinque	deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/3F7B0EF.txt
14:06	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1lCSSs0 )
14:07	thestringpuller	SMTP's limit is 99mn terabytes!!!! Why do we need limit on blocksize guise?!?!?
14:07	punkman	https://blockchain.info/block/00000000000000000603cba76274b479a7507ef9585518b06e192f1a6255b5b8 cool mil in this block
14:07	assbot	Bitcoin Block #394456 ... ( http://bit.ly/1lCSXMi )
14:09	trinque	deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/3F7B0EF.txt
14:09	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1lCSSs0 )
14:14	punkman	https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/01/19/more-u-s-military-drones-are-crashing-than-ever-as-new-problems-emerge/
14:14	assbot	More Air Force drones are crashing than ever as mysterious new problems emerge - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pb6qH9 )
14:18	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80150 @ 0.00056996 = 45.6823 BTC [+] {4}
14:18	trinque	deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/3F7B0EF.txt
14:18	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1lCSSs0 )
14:18	deedbot-	accepted: 1
14:18	trinque	cool.
14:19	trinque	deedbot-: http://dpaste.com/3F7B0EF.txt
14:19	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1lCSSs0 )
14:19	deedbot-	accepted: 1
14:20	trinque	deedbot-: wb.
14:20	trinque	deedbot-: !services
14:20	trinque	!services
14:20	thestringpuller	Ugh. Can Roger Ver just go the fuck away, this prick is more of a douchebag than Weev.
14:20	thestringpuller	"I'm against war, but I love selling guns."
14:20	mircea_popescu	gavin is not very itnelligent, is he.
		~ 19 minutes ~
14:40	thestringpuller	seems evoorhees is no better
14:40	thestringpuller	he's basically on reddit wanting Core to become bitcoin politicians
14:40	thestringpuller	so now he's gone from being bitcoin businessman to bitcoin politician
14:41	thestringpuller	everyone wants to be in office!
14:44	BingoBoingo	When we got our snow earier this week I was the only person the on our street civilized enough to shovel his drive way. Now that there's been a few days for it to melt and refreeze neighbors are complaining they can't get into or out of theirs because they've become too slick. Also precious few sidewalks have been shoveled in town.
14:51	punkman	!up drnet
		~ 32 minutes ~
15:23	funkenstein_	BingoBoingo, nordic system looking better and better innit?
15:23	BingoBoingo	funkenstein_: Not really
15:24	funkenstein_	how else you gonna get around in the winter?
15:24	funkenstein_	pin to win
15:26	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo sucks huh.
		~ 19 minutes ~
15:45	BingoBoingo	Usually get around with car in winter, sufficient wild snowplows here
15:46	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Used to not be this way. Sometime 10-15 years ago the torts think scared people out of taking responsibility for clearing winter weather
15:46	mircea_popescu	either that or sheer lazy.
15:46	BingoBoingo	The tort justifies the lazy
15:47	*	mircea_popescu recalls enjoying doing it, the one year he ended up seriously snowed upon
15:47	BingoBoingo	It's not spectualarly fun, but its a way to be outside in the cold without feeling cold
15:49	BingoBoingo	What I don't get though is the people so lazy they won't do their own driveway and end up housebound three days after the last snow falls
15:50	BingoBoingo	We only got 3 or 4 inches of snow. Yet rather than remove it derps drive over it until it refreezes into a slick that doesn't remove so easily
		↖
15:50	mircea_popescu	i got a foot an a half.
15:51	mircea_popescu	and then by the time i cleared it, there was a slight melt an d i got a futher two tons off the roof.
15:51	BingoBoingo	Ah, the big snows are much more fun. Only been through a couple snows between 18-24 inches.
15:53	mircea_popescu	gives you plenty of time to practice jr high maths.
15:54	BingoBoingo	Also when done a well earned sense of superiority over other locals who are less accomplished in the clearing
15:57	mircea_popescu	true.
16:04	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37495 @ 0.00056658 = 21.2439 BTC [-] {3}
16:10	mircea_popescu	and speaking of toilet bowls, http://41.media.tumblr.com/f807573edb2b0f7a29f5ff72d97f83c1/tumblr_nhoc41C1Bp1r539hzo1_1280.jpg
		↖
16:10	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1nEllPO )
16:11	mircea_popescu	;;nethash
16:11	gribble	856935770.399
16:14	BingoBoingo	;;bc,stats
16:14	gribble	Current Blocks: 394516 | Current Difficulty: 1.1335429980147113E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 395135 | Next Difficulty In: 619 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 13 hours, 52 minutes, and 22 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
16:20	BingoBoingo	http://trilema.com/2013/the-bitchslapping-of-2013/ seems awfully prescient as now Erik seeks to appease all the pinoy spamzors https://archive.is/aQX5h
16:20	assbot	The bitchslapping of 2013... on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1nEmNl5 )
16:20	assbot	IMHO, BTC price will be weak until Core demonstrates competency in social consensus. : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1nEmNBD )
16:20	mircea_popescu	opinions being like assholes, whether humble or not.
16:21	BingoBoingo	"Unlike me, Erik tries to be nice, to everyone, all the time. The downside of his approach is that he is treated like dirt, by everyone. Not every time, but every time it actually matters. (You are invited to review the logs of the #bitcoin-dev channel [cached] and make up your own mind on the subject.) "
16:21	*	BingoBoingo definitely bullish on 2013 flashbacks this year
16:24	*	BingoBoingo waits for flashbacks to http://trilema.com/2013/strategic-superiority-the-saga-continues/
16:24	assbot	Strategic superiority - the saga continues on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1nEnpam )
16:25	pete_dushenski	;;later tell ben_vulpes i'd avoid all chrysler products (including jeep) like the plague. land cruiser/4runner, tahoe/suburban, and explorer/expedition are all worth considering and all fit the "mega-suv with low tco and reasonable maintenance prospects for an american family" niche. that being said, you'd probably be just as well, if not better, served by the 00-06 escape or 97-02 cr-v, both of which should be quiet
16:25	pete_dushenski	easier to park, better on fuel, and have lower tco. whichever way you go, driving them each and finding a used car with known providence (receipts!) are the two most important factors.
16:25	gribble	The operation succeeded.
16:26	pete_dushenski	for those at home, tco = true cost to own
16:27	BingoBoingo	Ah, yes. J.e.e.p. Just empty every pocket
16:29	BingoBoingo	Dodge Magnum though could make interesting baby wagon. Just high risk of being stolen because "urban favorite"
		↖
16:32	pete_dushenski	magnum r/t for sure. probably less than $10k for a decent one.
16:33	pete_dushenski	chrysler has definitely taken the crown of "piece of cobbled together shit that only lasts as long as you're making payments on it", which fiat had through the 80s. fitting that fiat came back to north america in 2012 under chrysler proprietorship, really.
16:34	BingoBoingo	Meatspace friend had boring v6 one for a while. Beat it all to hell then "upgraded" to one of the daewoo crossovers rebadged as a chevy.
16:35	BingoBoingo	He mentioned not missing the covetous looks he got driving the magnum around the city
16:36	pete_dushenski	aha. the lulz of an "american" truck or car being designed and built in the firstest bestest southest korea. truly one of america's most glorious embarrassments.
16:37	pete_dushenski	http://dodgeforum.com/articles/dodge-charger-and-challenger-among-americas-most-stolen-cars/ << lel. til.
16:37	assbot	Dodge Charger and Challenger among America’s most stolen cars - DodgeForum.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1nEp1kx )
16:37	BingoBoingo	I mean it was understandable when they did it with the Aveo because they wanted a bottom end car to scare people into buying up.
16:39	pete_dushenski	the only way i could explain dodge thefts topping the charts is that only poorfags ~report~ thefts, in much the same way as "all the rapes that happen on us campuses are committed by varsity athletes"
		↖
16:39	pete_dushenski	it's like the most believable pick-up line in the hood : "i'd pick you up at 8, hun, but my charger srt8 got stolen last week and i'm still trying to track down the basterds who dun it."
16:40	pete_dushenski	maybe this works ?
16:41	pete_dushenski	BingoBoingo: the only problem with that aveo theory is that... it was better than the cobalt.
16:41	pete_dushenski	or at least just as terrible
16:41	pete_dushenski	for 5k less
16:42	BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: A lot of the charger/etc thefts are from rental agencies
16:43	BingoBoingo	The aveo and cobalt were different kinds of terrible
16:44	asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381533 << wtf is that
16:44	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 21:10:19; mircea_popescu: and speaking of toilet bowls, http://41.media.tumblr.com/f807573edb2b0f7a29f5ff72d97f83c1/tumblr_nhoc41C1Bp1r539hzo1_1280.jpg
16:44	pete_dushenski	breakfast wut
16:44	asciilifeform	i mean, what substance
16:44	pete_dushenski	sugarpops
16:45	BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: The cobalt was basically a cavalier refresh which was a familiar, dependable kind of shitty. The aveo was an alien kind of suck.
16:45	asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381552 << i never understood this idea - what is wrong with a normal passenger car ? you can fit even 2x as many children as adults in it
		↖
16:45	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 21:29:45; BingoBoingo: Dodge Magnum though could make interesting baby wagon. Just high risk of being stolen because "urban favorite"
16:45	pete_dushenski	BingoBoingo: and you'd be amazed how many buyers preferred the alien. i sold 10x aveos as cobalts in my day.
16:46	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Magnum is a good old fashioned station wagon.
16:46	pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: you're not progressive enough to get it
16:46	BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: You also are Canadian. Locally cobalts are common. Aveos are what Chinese restaurant workers drive.
16:46	ben_vulpes	thank you pete_dushenski!
16:46	asciilifeform	i see this idea, colleagues had children, 'must buy gigantic truck!1111'
16:46	asciilifeform	but... why?
16:47	asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: i thought 'progressive' enviro-whinerism would demand a ~smaller~ car
16:47	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Crash resistance. Truck is only way to get body on frame construction. Also favorable height differential in crash.
16:48	asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381561 << who the everliving fuck ~doesn't~ report the theft? 'oh i don't need the insurance money, just keep it' ?
		↖
16:48	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 21:39:10; pete_dushenski: the only way i could explain dodge thefts topping the charts is that only poorfags ~report~ thefts, in much the same way as "all the rapes that happen on us campuses are committed by varsity athletes"
16:48	pete_dushenski	ben_vulpes: avec plaisir :D
16:50	pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: not only are you not a progressive now, but you've clearly never been one either. while it's true that some fall into the 'prius/tesla' camp, others fall into the 'i'd never drive a sedan or wagon because that's what my parents did and that's old-fashioned and/or otherwise bad mkay' camp
16:51	pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: as to thefts, the point of the rape parallel is that the act (of ownership or sex) never actually happened.
16:52	asciilifeform	i dun get it, ~somebody~ had title to the wheeled coffin
16:52	asciilifeform	so what does this mean, 'ownership never happened'
16:52	asciilifeform	it was on the lot? the dealer (or bank, etc) owned.
16:53	pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: as BingoBoingo points out, that most of the 'thefts' happened on rental lots indicates exactly this. namely, fraud.
16:54	BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: No. Thefts are rentals that just don't get returned. Talked to a couple people who did the scary work of "rental car recovery"
16:54	pete_dushenski	or car "disappeared" from and ended up at employee's step-brother's house, "somehow"
16:54	pete_dushenski	BingoBoingo: i guess there's that too eh
16:54	asciilifeform	l0l
16:54	jurov	rental agencies don't report that?
16:55	asciilifeform	it is interesting that a zimbabwe would even get to have such a thing as car rental lots.
16:55	jurov	!up gabriel_laddel
16:55	BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: What typically was the worst case was car renter took car to region under "sovereign flag" like certain areas of North St Louis that precluded recovery when lojack revealed the car to be there.
16:55	pete_dushenski	jurov: sure they do, possibly even over-report.
16:56	gabriel_laddel	Does anyone have experience with North Star Micro Electronics?
		↖
16:56	BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: Apparently at that point recovery efforts became limited to driving by to verify the car was there and making it insurance company's problem
16:56	gabriel_laddel	I found 20 XC6216-2HQ240Cs
		↖
16:57	gabriel_laddel	Very reasonably priced too.
16:58	asciilifeform	gabriel_laddel: gonna build own dragonflytron?
16:58	pete_dushenski	BingoBoingo: bwahaha. "how much does your enemy need to pay you for you to answer the call in his time of need ?"... indeed. why shouldn't "recovery" guys be on the same side as "thieves" ?
16:58	gabriel_laddel	asciilifeform: We shall see. I would like to put 8 of them in your hands. S.NSA needs a R&D project.
16:59	asciilifeform	gabriel_laddel: got six or so 'r&d project' depending on how you count.
16:59	gabriel_laddel	Though I'd need to see some designs first..
16:59	asciilifeform	gabriel_laddel: this one's yours.
16:59	asciilifeform	gabriel_laddel: try something easy at first, e.g., evolve a bit-counter
16:59	BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: Not necessarily on side of theives. Company just did not want life insurance premiums to bankrupt them so placed sane limits on what could be recovered from where.
17:01	deedbot-	[BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump gets Republican Nomination - http://bitbet.us/bet/1206/donald-trump-gets-republican-nomination/#b78
17:01	ben_vulpes	pete_dushenski: know anything about the honda passport model?
17:02	pete_dushenski	that it's korean
17:02	pete_dushenski	also not sold in canada afaik
17:03	ben_vulpes	what does 'korean' mean for build quality and lifetime?
17:03	pete_dushenski	very, very bad things.
17:03	pete_dushenski	there's a good reason you don't see many 15-20 year old hyundais on the road
17:04	ben_vulpes	hm.
17:04	asciilifeform	i question that any wheelbox sold now will be on the road in 20 years, even if the road is still there then
17:04	ben_vulpes	all the good cars have miserable lines.
17:04	ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: 'sold now' is not under consideration.
17:05	pete_dushenski	korean shitboxes tend to rattle and groan like very poorly maintained vacuum cleaners at 15-20 years of age and find themselves in the scrap yard as a result
17:05	BingoBoingo	ben_vulpes: Gas is cheap. Just get a Ford Excursion and be done with it.
17:06	pete_dushenski	ben_vulpes: honda pilot > passenger
17:06	BingoBoingo	Just imagine how much bandwidth it would have when full of tapes!
17:06	pete_dushenski	https://portland.craigslist.org/clc/cto/5403309932.html
17:06	assbot	2003 Honda Pilot LX 4WD ... ( http://bit.ly/1KvhBoG )
17:06	pete_dushenski	" Will trow set of massa 23inch wheels if pay full price." <<< !!!
17:07	pete_dushenski	hear that ? he'll "trow" in some spangly dubs tooo !!
17:07	pete_dushenski	bbias
17:08	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95400 @ 0.00056372 = 53.7789 BTC [-]
17:08	BingoBoingo	This looks easy on the HODL https://portland.craigslist.org/clc/cto/5404505284.html
17:08	assbot	2003 Suburban Z71 ... ( http://bit.ly/1KvhSYv )
17:15	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49650 @ 0.00056398 = 28.0016 BTC [+] {3}
17:18	ben_vulpes	BingoBoingo: i grew up in a suburban
17:18	ben_vulpes	great vans
17:18	asciilifeform	living in it?!!
17:19	ben_vulpes	certainly felt like it, driving across town to school and back every day.
17:19	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Bigger than some apartments
17:19	BingoBoingo	Can roll the window down and jsut drop a turd on the highway
17:20	mod6	my specialty
17:20	mod6	'-has a couple songs in the rear bumper' wat?
17:21	BingoBoingo	mod6: How can one not want to investigate that mystery?
17:21	mod6	right?
17:22	BingoBoingo	There's prolly also got to be aftermarket plate armour kits for the thing
17:31	BingoBoingo	https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZU3lfeWEAADlIV.jpg
		↖
17:31	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1S03PCx )
17:31	BingoBoingo	!up gabriel_laddel
17:35	BingoBoingo	https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/808993
17:35	assbot	Ruston's Guide to Spotting and Avoiding Fatfishing | fatpeoplehate ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kvm8ay )
17:36	asciilifeform	BingoBoingo: what is a 'bingo wing' ?
17:36	asciilifeform	(mentioned in link)
17:37	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Arm fat, usually associated with older ladies that frequent Bingo halls. Now Obesity is prevalent enough the young and under exercised frequently have them. The arm fat in a bingo wing typically "flaps" when moving hence "wing"
		↖
17:38	asciilifeform	ugh.
17:38	asciilifeform	for some reason my first thought was the old viking punishment, 'making the bloody eagle'
17:38	BingoBoingo	Ah, not yet.
17:38	asciilifeform	(evisceration from behind, lungs would flap out the back like wings)
17:40	BingoBoingo	Can then hang as trophy like "angel"
		↖
17:41	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381575 << he likes to shop for shelf stable stuff at sam's club, once or twice a quarter. needs the space.
17:41	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 21:45:32; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381552 << i never understood this idea - what is wrong with a normal passenger car ? you can fit even 2x as many children as adults in it
17:42	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381586 << not everyone's insured. these are old cars, worth relatively little.
17:42	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 21:48:51; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381561 << who the everliving fuck ~doesn't~ report the theft? 'oh i don't need the insurance money, just keep it' ?
17:42	asciilifeform	i do similar, with normal car
17:42	asciilifeform	the extra space of all but the most gigantic 'suv' is largely illusory
17:43	BingoBoingo	But in the most gigantic, overwhelming space
17:43	asciilifeform	in garbage truck, yet moar space!11
17:43	BingoBoingo	^
17:44	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381604 << iirc, recycler.
17:44	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 21:56:13; gabriel_laddel: Does anyone have experience with North Star Micro Electronics?
17:44	asciilifeform	(anyone ever throw a party in a converted garbage truck? and then see if guests piss themselves when you show that the hydraulics STILL work ??)
17:44	BingoBoingo	lol
17:45	BingoBoingo	Will have to remember that if relapse
17:52	asciilifeform	i still think 'babywagon' is a constructed meme, like the diamond ring idiocy
17:55	BingoBoingo	Well. might actually make sense when children get to school if personally delivering them. May deter other parent's driving aggression if their baby wagon is insuffiecient to take yours in a fight for space.
17:56	BingoBoingo	Could also be a reflection of how many 'Muricans go planetary after birth requiring truck suspensions to hold their ass.
18:04	pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381651 << ok i lollered
18:04	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 22:31:22; BingoBoingo: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZU3lfeWEAADlIV.jpg
18:04	asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381663 << obligatory ancient uncle al: 'i sat down the angel on top of the christmas tree... i think... she ~liked~ it!!11'
18:04	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 22:40:27; BingoBoingo: Can then hang as trophy like "angel"
18:06	pete_dushenski	"Of the 269 Predators purchased by the Air Force since then, about half have been destroyed or badly damaged in accidents, records show." <--> "The Predator has been our most effective weapon in our campaign against the global jihadists,” said Michael G. Vickers, the Pentagon’s former top civilian intelligence official"
18:07	asciilifeform	what, one wonders, are the stats for other flying machines ?
18:07	pete_dushenski	when your ~most effective~ weapon costs you more to build, maintain, and operate than it causes in damage to your enemies, you're deeply defeated.
		↖
18:07	asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: actually these are cheap, esp. in that when they explode, nobody's widow gets a pension
		↖
18:08	pete_dushenski	not so. a pension is just a promise, a predator costs money today, in today's dollars
18:08	asciilifeform	about what a truck costs
		↖
18:09	pete_dushenski	widow from vietnam can have 350/mo forever, can't afford cauliflower
18:09	pete_dushenski	$4 mn for a truck ??
18:09	asciilifeform	quite possibly. (truck delivered to afghan)
18:10	pete_dushenski	see freight costs atm. here to shanghai for the cost of the containers.
18:10	asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: you would be surprised to learn what seemingly pedestrian items cost when purchased on usg dime
18:10	asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: shanghai is a 'special' place.
18:11	pete_dushenski	"In March, the Air Force’s program manager for its Reaper fleet filed a report with the Pentagon noting that there had been “a dramatic increase” in starter-generator failures since 2013." <--> "General Atomics spokeswoman Kimberly Kasitz said the firm “stands behind the proven reliability” of the Reaper."
18:12	pete_dushenski	this shit's just too lulzy. honestly.
18:12	pete_dushenski	i greater display of circuitous wankery one could scarcely imagine.
18:12	asciilifeform	l0l perhaps they're using the starters of the same make as in my old 'subaru'.
18:13	pete_dushenski	takata ? famous for poor airbags.
18:13	asciilifeform	incidentally, what happens to that thing if the starter croaks? how many hours of battery for guidance system
18:13	pete_dushenski	"“Once the battery’s gone, the airplane goes stupid and you lose it,” said Col. Brandon Baker, chief of the Air Force’s remotely piloted aircraft capabilities division. “Quite frankly, we don’t have the root cause ironed out just yet.”"
18:14	pete_dushenski	^
18:14	asciilifeform	l0lzy
18:14	pete_dushenski	also, "The Reaper carries an emergency battery backup system. But the batteries last only for about one hour. If a malfunctioning drone needs more time than that to reach an airfield, it is in trouble."
18:14	pete_dushenski	this shit's better than usgavin, i swear
18:15	asciilifeform	i'ma guess these are built without redundant tandems
18:15	asciilifeform	(unlike manned machine)
18:15	asciilifeform	~deliberately~.
18:15	asciilifeform	they are seen as inventory, to be churned
18:15	asciilifeform	like rockets.
18:16	pete_dushenski	just imagine the conversation at lizard hitler hq : "sir, we have reports that the bitcoin xtcoreclassic team isn't providing adequate lulz to our enemies at #b-a. we've expended all the resources we had at our disposal and it still isn't enough. they're indefatigable sir!" "send in... the drones. it might not be a perfect plan, but it's all we have right now. at the very least, it'll buy us some time." "right away,
18:16	pete_dushenski	lizardliness!"
18:16	asciilifeform	recall also that 'predator' et al are not aerial combat machines, but roasting-defenceless-people machines
18:17	mircea_popescu	quite.
18:17	asciilifeform	by design.
18:17	asciilifeform	they are not built to survive so much as one bullet.
18:17	pete_dushenski	relevant : https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*u0cOcOtNDobvT8ZsWzfzXA.png
18:17	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1SacMY1 )
18:17	mircea_popescu	much like everything else usg
18:17	mircea_popescu	"works fine if you roll over"
18:19	asciilifeform	incidentally 'predator' is a very slow machine, a toy chopper could quite likely catch up with it
		↖
18:19	asciilifeform	quite odd that nobody has yet (afaik) demonstrated this.
		↖
18:20	asciilifeform	the payload could be as humble as one shotgun round.
18:20	pete_dushenski	in lab, no, but the results would seem to support your theory, particularly as heathens with slingshots seem to be picking them off like flies buzzing around yesterday's leftovers
18:20	asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: what makes you think that the heathens have picked them off ?
18:20	asciilifeform	the most likely scenario is takeoff/landing 'oopses'
18:21	asciilifeform	as with ordinary planes.
18:21	pete_dushenski	wait, really ? you think ~half~ of their fleet "had accidents" ?
18:21	asciilifeform	aha.
18:21	pete_dushenski	like they're some kind of total ceo ?
18:21	asciilifeform	recall also the other kind of usgistic accident, as with the car rental lots,
18:21	asciilifeform	'i want a new one. let's oops this'
18:22	pete_dushenski	i'm not persuaded that the front-line gameboyers think that there's an unlimited supply of these machines.
18:22	asciilifeform	sorta like a fella i once knew who had a 'new computer if this one dies' warranty, and had a handy electrostatic wand'o'death he built for new-computer-gettin'
18:22	pete_dushenski	what if you break xbox... and it was last one ?
18:22	pete_dushenski	asciilifeform: lol.
18:22	asciilifeform	what if you break yer paycheque and it were the last one...
18:23	asciilifeform	nobody thinks this.
18:23	*	pete_dushenski wasn't raised by wolves, can't confirm
18:35	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 168000 @ 0.0005599 = 94.0632 BTC [-] {4}
18:36	asciilifeform	!up polarbeard
18:36	polarbeard	hi
18:36	asciilifeform	who might you be, polarbeard ?
18:36	mircea_popescu	ello
18:36	polarbeard	I don't know if you'll find this interesting or horrible :)
18:36	polarbeard	but I'll share anyway
18:37	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381658 << i went to a bingo hall for the first time in my life recently. made it for like half an hour. mostly in dazed bewilderment that people actually DO this.
18:37	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 22:37:55; BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Arm fat, usually associated with older ladies that frequent Bingo halls. Now Obesity is prevalent enough the young and under exercised frequently have them. The arm fat in a bingo wing typically "flaps" when moving hence "wing"
18:37	polarbeard	I've been toying with trb's building scripts, and I've managed to do a whole build, including sig verification and pressing by generating a makefile
18:37	mircea_popescu	for any innocents : bingo is this activity where you get a bit of paper printed with numbers, there's a loudspeaker saying numbers, and you cross out the matches.
18:37	polarbeard	look here: https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/90d9a921f084ed4ae942
18:37	assbot	Makefile · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1SaebxK )
18:38	mircea_popescu	apparently someone does this voluntarily! i expect to see prison camps next!
18:38	polarbeard	the makefile there is generated from the script on top
18:38	mircea_popescu	polarbeard good for you. now get in the wot.
18:38	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: no more astonishing than the fact that folks played, e.g., 'everquest', voluntarily
18:38	polarbeard	I'm there
18:38	mircea_popescu	at least that's with graphics
18:38	mircea_popescu	!rate polarbeard 1 Managed a V press.
18:38	assbot	Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/e0b87e28121f253c
18:38	polarbeard	but unrated
18:39	polarbeard	thx
18:39	mircea_popescu	!v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.polarbeard.1:8a5bdee1eb6f2d33a59c6a5c2f83bc35d2934888e7e09fc6c99cbe2480d8c241
18:39	assbot	Successfully added a rating of 1 for polarbeard with note: Managed a V press.
18:39	polarbeard	I'll stay around
18:40	asciilifeform	polarbeard: how did you come upon your interest in trb ?
18:40	polarbeard	we have similar interests, for what I read in the public log
18:40	polarbeard	and is nice that you cleaned it up
18:41	mircea_popescu	actually that's a neat little script. what dja think trinque mod6 ?
18:41	trinque	polarbeard: I posted some makefiles to the ML recently. How does what you've done here compare to it?
18:41	mircea_popescu	similar, maybe shorter.
18:41	polarbeard	trinque: I used your makefiles to build the script actually, you sped up the process :)
18:42	polarbeard	this script generates a single makefile to verify, press and build, without using v
18:42	mircea_popescu	to look at that press enum... shit you people've been busy.
18:42	trinque	polarbeard: cool man. I'll read it in detail later this evening.
18:43	asciilifeform	press enum ?
18:43	polarbeard	thanks! is still under heavy testing, but it works
18:44	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform he included a test suite, and a list of its outputs, which is impressive.
18:44	mircea_popescu	see L 170>
18:45	asciilifeform	neato except for the 32bit key fps
18:45	asciilifeform	those need fixin'
18:45	asciilifeform	(ln. 186-7)
18:45	polarbeard	oh, yep
18:45	polarbeard	those will not be imported if you already have them
18:45	polarbeard	but right
18:47	asciilifeform	polarbeard: in case you did not know, you can browse the almost-current trb using www browser, http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source?v=asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected
18:47	assbot	Satoshi asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected/ ... ( http://bit.ly/1SaeKaR )
18:47	asciilifeform	very helpful for wrapping one's head around.
18:47	polarbeard	asciilifeform: bookmarked, thx
18:47	asciilifeform	likewise mod6's chart: http://thebitcoin.foundation/misc/vpatch-nodes.html
18:47	assbot	VPATCH_GRAPH ... ( http://bit.ly/1KdVBAp )
18:47	asciilifeform	^ it is mechanically generated but not yet in real time
18:48	asciilifeform	polarbeard: you can click on the patches and see exactly what has changed.
18:49	polarbeard	neat
18:50	mircea_popescu	so why would we find this horrible ?
18:50	polarbeard	because you built v in first place
18:50	mircea_popescu	well yes but for this reason afaiu.
18:51	polarbeard	yep, this is quite experimental anyway, I don't know make's limits
18:51	polarbeard	maybe if you feed it too much targets i'll die
18:52	polarbeard	*it
18:52	jurov	lol
18:52	mircea_popescu	that'd be a sight.
18:52	jurov	!b 4
18:52	assbot	Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/08RVY1R.txt )
18:52	asciilifeform	polarbeard: what do the 'hunks' do ?
18:52	mircea_popescu	"make has a 100000 targets limit written into the code"
18:52	polarbeard	after verifying, patches are split into hunks
		↖
18:53	polarbeard	so make can resolve them
18:53	mircea_popescu	uh
18:53	asciilifeform	why?
18:53	mircea_popescu	look at that, it's like we're back to .rar torrents.
18:54	polarbeard	why split or why make has to resolve them?
18:54	asciilifeform	why the latter
18:55	asciilifeform	v is guaranteed to apply all vpatches in the correct order.
18:55	polarbeard	there is no v
		↖
18:55	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381687 << the definition of "effective" under which he operates is both peculiar and self-defeating. he wants to get something (in this case, anything, whatsoever) for nothing (in this case, no casualties, the one thing usg can't afford is coffins). so in that sense, his insanity is sensible.
18:55	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 23:07:35; pete_dushenski: when your ~most effective~ weapon costs you more to build, maintain, and operate than it causes in damage to your enemies, you're deeply defeated.
18:55	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform he wrote a makefile maker
18:55	polarbeard	it helps with parallelization but there was another reason I forgot
18:55	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i can see this
18:56	mircea_popescu	so technically it doesn't need the v once the output has been generated.
18:56	asciilifeform	i actually considered implementing v this way, and decided against it
18:56	mircea_popescu	yes but all possibility space WILL be explored.
18:56	asciilifeform	you lose a good bit of important side functionality, and become dependent on a gigantic gnuturd
18:56	asciilifeform	(it is bad enough that we rely on gnu diff)
18:56	mircea_popescu	well, he wants to find out if he can crash make.
18:56	polarbeard	true, it's just an experiment
18:56	polarbeard	you get a signable build process though
18:57	polarbeard	mircea_popescu: right :)
18:57	asciilifeform	signable?
18:57	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform yes, as per github tradition. if you trust your computer and v implementation, you can sign the output.
18:57	asciilifeform	i suppose if a megatonne of hardcoded hashes can be called 'build process'...
18:57	mircea_popescu	how do you thinkg everything else that's signed out there is signed ?
18:58	mircea_popescu	and rly i should say "As per git tradition"
18:58	mircea_popescu	debian was never anything else, etc.
18:58	asciilifeform	i'm still not certain why the patches had to be broken down into patchons
18:58	polarbeard	its just intermediary state though
18:59	mircea_popescu	;;google pat & patachon
18:59	gribble	Pat & Patachon by Thomas Staedeli: <http://www.cyranos.ch/pata-e.htm>; Soundtrack #7 Pat und Patachon | Eric Frantzen Chor & Orchester ...: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPnbYp35myQ>; Pat und Patachon | Eric Frantzen Chor & Orchester | Bulimie Song ...: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHPipIUbjXY>
18:59	polarbeard	like it is on memory using v
18:59	polarbeard	hunks is generated by the script after verification
19:01	asciilifeform	polarbeard: care to give an example of how this was run ?
19:02	asciilifeform	let's say i want to press to the latest
19:02	polarbeard	you probably need to specify some paths, wot, patches and sigs
19:02	polarbeard	and that's it
19:02	polarbeard	sigs is what you call seals
19:03	polarbeard	you need the diff splitter, splitdiff
		↖
19:03	BingoBoingo	<mircea_popescu> for any innocents : bingo is this activity where you get a bit of paper printed with numbers, there's a loudspeaker saying numbers, and you cross out the matches. << Aha, yes. It's like lottery as in person activity.
19:03	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381690 << nah, they're 2-3 tons at 5-10k a kg. a truck is 5-10 tons at maaaybe a few hundies a kg.
19:03	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 23:08:54; asciilifeform: about what a truck costs
19:04	asciilifeform	polarbeard: and i notice that this thing relies on grep
19:04	polarbeard	from the patchutils package
19:04	asciilifeform	ugh
19:04	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo i dunno, it looks more like a job (and a shitty one at that) than entertainment to me.
19:04	polarbeard	right, you have to feed all the targets
19:04	mircea_popescu	:D
19:04	asciilifeform	polarbeard: this is neat, in the sense that an eiffel tower built from toothpicks is neat
19:04	polarbeard	that's why I said I don't know wether this will hit make's limits
19:04	polarbeard	I know :)
19:05	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: Gotta consider the people wo were playing. "Big prison" is already pretty well engrained into their "living"
19:06	asciilifeform	i thought 'bingo' was largely played by children ?!
19:06	asciilifeform	and folks in insane asylums
19:06	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform definitely the best introduction i've seen to date, tho. beats http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-01-2016#1377854 by quite the margin.
19:06	assbot	Logged on 19-01-2016 23:27:04; buZz: i am me
19:06	BingoBoingo	asciilifeform: Mostly here played by the elderly
19:06	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: i liked 'jinglebutt' introduction
19:06	mircea_popescu	tho i suppose some of the gentlemen may prefer swedes.
19:06	mircea_popescu	aha.
19:07	mircea_popescu	uh... which was that one ?
19:07	asciilifeform	!up polarbeard
19:07	mircea_popescu	polarbeard you can self-voice, say !up to assbot in private.
19:07	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it was some chick, you quoted it as 'as the name implies, i am jinglebutt. now remove me from this list' or the like
19:07	mircea_popescu	o.O
19:07	mircea_popescu	actually, that one reporter wasn't bad, however long ago.
19:08	polarbeard	mircea_popescu: thanks for the tip
19:08	mircea_popescu	i guess ima make a top nao. brb.
19:22	BingoBoingo	;;ticker --market all
19:23	gribble	Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 383.64, vol: 14814.48883594 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 388.887, vol: 10333.26836 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 382.56, vol: 62542.28941267 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 352.0, vol: 12.8786204 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 386.2852, vol: 97365.99530000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 384.3099, vol: 519.12550084 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 389.786203978, vol: 69.32396777 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)
19:23	BingoBoingo	;;more
19:23	gribble	average: 384.957436949
19:23	deedbot-	[Qntra] NACDL Amicus: Silk Road Warrant Unconstitutional According To 4th Amendment - http://qntra.net/2016/01/nacdl-amicus-silk-road-warrant-unconstitutional-according-to-4th-amendment/
19:24	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-06-2015#1178377 << oldies but goldies.
19:24	assbot	Logged on 26-06-2015 22:00:59; ielo: mircea_popescu, i'm just sick of your shit you've independently claimed like 3 people i know are scammers and your life is literally gossiping on the internet
19:25	asciilifeform	who even was that
19:26	BingoBoingo	Prolly an Israeli Jew
19:26	BingoBoingo	Just judging by demographics
19:27	asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-06-2015#1178421 << l0lparticle from linked day in logz
19:27	assbot	Logged on 26-06-2015 22:13:17; mircea_popescu: anyway, ascii_field, apparently the dean is asking some questions eh ?
19:27	asciilifeform	interesting how this came to nothing.
19:27	mircea_popescu	i don't even recall what that was ?
19:27	BingoBoingo	U Maryland
19:28	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: it was this, http://trilema.com/2015/on-the-elaine-shi-and-andrew-miller-scam-ring
19:28	assbot	On the Elaine Shi and Andrew Miller scam ring on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZSVkgK )
19:28	asciilifeform	https://cs.umd.edu/~amiller << graduated
19:28	assbot	Andrew Miller phd@umd ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZSVtkv )
19:29	asciilifeform	no signs of lowering into pederasty
19:29	pete_dushenski	except for "Currently on the job market"
19:29	asciilifeform	http://elaineshi.com << still employed
19:29	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1ZSVwg8 )
19:30	asciilifeform	pete_dushenski: that is implied under 'graduated'
19:30	mircea_popescu	myeah. dey doubled down on stupid didn't dey.
19:30	asciilifeform	she's teaching at cornell now
19:30	asciilifeform	upgraded to junior nomenklatura, apparently.
19:31	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform not THAT implied. most employers of uni derps are unis.
19:31	asciilifeform	crime - pays.
19:31	mircea_popescu	yeah, until it doesn't it keeps paying.
19:32	asciilifeform	my point is that it went down exactly how i knew it would - dean looked at the books and understood where the payola comes from, and did not ask further questions of anybody.
19:32	asciilifeform	nobody throws out $8M in nsf grantola
19:32	mircea_popescu	8mn is actually lowish.
19:32	asciilifeform	quite enough to feed two derpatronicists and a dozen slave labourers
19:33	asciilifeform	and to leave plenty over for the common piggy
		↖
19:33	asciilifeform	https://www.cs.umd.edu/article/2014/02/elaine-shi-awarded-2014-sloan-research-fellowship << prize winner !!11111
19:33	assbot	Elaine Shi Awarded 2014 Sloan Research Fellowship | UMD Department of Computer Science ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZSW1H1 )
19:34	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: 8MN is par for feeding some classes of derp
19:35	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-07-2014#758493 << since i'm going through history.
19:35	assbot	Logged on 16-07-2014 21:20:07; gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: No one terribly interesting.
19:35	asciilifeform	as a former participant in the racket, i will say that 8m - even in ~today~'s watered-down usg - is a princely grant bag.
19:35	asciilifeform	quite enough to run a large lab for a year+.
19:37	asciilifeform	the other takeaway is that ~nsf~ specifically is a magical thing in that the dean had nothing whatsoever to worry about, even if the grant were for reprocessing babies into lollipops, he would never be answerable for it - washington ~signed~, aha
19:38	mircea_popescu	lol epic logs. "who are you ?" "princessnell sent me"
19:39	BingoBoingo	!up polarbeard
19:39	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-04-2014#597433 << lol is this early danielpbarron ?
		↖
19:39	assbot	Logged on 01-04-2014 16:55:28; mircea_popescu: who are you ?! and why are you determined to feed my ignore list ?
19:39	asciilifeform	;;google "ken sent me"
19:39	gribble	Leisure Suit Larry: Reloaded - Part 9 - Ken sent me - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M98S9omMfAo>; Fouk - Ken sent me - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws0jnqNoGsg>; Cosmic Space Jorma - Ken Sent Me - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6GvXtrdXL0>
19:40	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2014#562094 << lmao.
19:40	assbot	Logged on 16-03-2014 18:47:15; mircea_popescu: that's maybe what are you doing. who are you ?
19:42	pete_dushenski	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-03-2014#562097 << heh. dead links.
19:42	assbot	Logged on 16-03-2014 18:49:24; datz_: i run https://peercover.com and sponsor http://openxrptalk.com
19:44	pete_dushenski	;;seen nubbins`
19:44	gribble	nubbins` was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 5 weeks, 1 day, 9 hours, 7 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <nubbins`> <+mircea_popescu> in other news, chick on okcupid : "porque no me escribis en castellano << they say castellano in peru too, but if i'm not mistaken this is not universal in south america?
19:44	pete_dushenski	and then there was one canuckistani
19:44	asciilifeform	!s ;;seen nubbins`
19:44	assbot	210 results for ';;seen nubbins`' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=%3B%3Bseen+nubbins%60
19:45	pete_dushenski	i guess there was the wikidood what was his name...
19:45	asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-12-2015#1336882 << record not yet broken!111
19:45	assbot	Logged on 05-12-2015 14:33:39; gribble: nubbins` was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 7 weeks, 2 days, 12 hours, 34 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <nubbins`> autographs for only 5 tx fees
19:46	BingoBoingo	pete_dushenski: From what I understand nubsy occasionally has things to do like reveal laser fraud and print.
19:47	pete_dushenski	;;seen mike_c
19:47	gribble	mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 11 weeks, 0 days, 23 hours, 35 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: <mike_c> let's get that thing out the door and get alf some goddamn bitcoin already
19:47	asciilifeform	;;seen artifexd
19:47	mircea_popescu	he has a point dun he.
19:47	gribble	artifexd was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 39 weeks, 2 days, 2 hours, 30 minutes, and 40 seconds ago: <artifexd> I'm comfortable calling it a review. Not just of what it is but what it was and how it got to where it is.
19:47	mircea_popescu	;;seen fiat500
19:47	gribble	fiat500 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 years, 4 weeks, 2 days, 5 hours, 43 minutes, and 54 seconds ago: <fiat500> protein with a side of agony
19:47	mircea_popescu	ha-HA!
19:47	asciilifeform	;;seen moiety
19:47	gribble	moiety was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 13 weeks, 6 days, 13 hours, and 4 seconds ago: <moiety> i have to go, it was nice to see yous
19:47	pete_dushenski	lol.
19:48	pete_dushenski	mike_c has br0ken previous record : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=11-01-2016#1366012
19:48	assbot	Logged on 11-01-2016 03:49:35; gribble: mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 9 weeks, 3 days, 2 hours, 38 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <mike_c> let's get that thing out the door and get alf some goddamn bitcoin already
19:50	mod6	;;seen vragnaroda
19:50	gribble	vragnaroda was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 years, 30 weeks, 4 days, 10 hours, 29 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <vragnaroda> I'm American.
19:51	mircea_popescu	sheesh
19:51	mod6	ikr?
19:51	mircea_popescu	and it's still here, you know, four years later.
19:51	mircea_popescu	what the fuck lasts this long on the internet.
19:52	mod6	not much
19:52	mircea_popescu	back then digg > reddit even.
19:52	polarbeard	mircea_popescu: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/14/server_retired_after_18_years_and_ten_months_beat_that_readers/
19:52	assbot	Server retired after 18 years and ten months – beat that, readers! • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1ORItnW )
19:53	mircea_popescu	nb.
19:53	mircea_popescu	BingoBoingo https://voat.co/v/fatpeoplehate/comments/808993 << lotta that dumb shit on okcupid too. "oh how strange, she has 20 pics in the same exact angle"
19:53	assbot	Ruston's Guide to Spotting and Avoiding Fatfishing | fatpeoplehate ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kvm8ay )
19:54	BingoBoingo	mircea_popescu: OKC is where a lot of fatfishing happens
19:56	pete_dushenski	btc-e trading higher than bistamp, which is itself trading higher than bitfinex... don't think i've ever seen that before.
19:56	pete_dushenski	must be a blue moon
19:57	mircea_popescu	or a red one.
19:57	pete_dushenski	soviet moon is best moon
19:58	shinohai	o7
19:58	pete_dushenski	from the mines : "Make no mistake. Shinola watches are battery-powered, quartz movement watches. They’re not automatics. One could question whether or not a battery-powered watch justifies a $550-$1,000+ price. However, the quartz movements are made by their Swiss partners, Ronda AG, and then are sent to the 30,000 square foot Detroit factory where Shinola created dozens of jobs for Americans. Each Shinola watchmak
19:58	pete_dushenski	ndergoes intense, strict training. None of them had any watchmaker experience before. In short, not only did Shinola create jobs, they gave Detroit natives the training to do those jobs. That’s a pretty fucking noble cause, if you ask me."
19:59	pete_dushenski	who wouldn't want an over-priced timepiece manufactured by hobos ? not ~real~ americans !!!1
19:59	mircea_popescu	uh. weren't q&q quartz timepieces like 10-20 bux since forever ?
19:59	mircea_popescu	what 500.
19:59	pete_dushenski	"made in detroit" (tm) (r)
20:00	pete_dushenski	the only major city with rents under $1/sqm lend untold credulity and providence
20:01	mircea_popescu	"As for having fat pets, this shows that they have no concept of portion control. An animal will eat anything you put in front of it." << this is nonsense.
20:02	mircea_popescu	what is the animal, a pig ?
20:02	deedbot-	[Trilema] The top 3 best self-introductions in #bitcoin-assets to date - http://trilema.com/2016/the-top-3-best-self-introductions-in-bitcoin-assets-to-date/
20:08	polarbeard	what an honour
20:09	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381724 << if anyone in afghanistan etc were not fully employed in countig rocks and fucking goats thus managing to find their way here, i'd definitely finance a project to fly a quad to a drone and use the old komet trick
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20:09	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 23:19:28; asciilifeform: quite odd that nobody has yet (afaik) demonstrated this.
20:09	mircea_popescu	(photodiode interrupted electic firiing, fly under enemy, boom)
20:10	BingoBoingo	!up polarbeard
20:10	BingoBoingo	polarbeard: You know you can voice yourself now?
20:11	polarbeard	yes, thanks
20:14	BingoBoingo	!help
20:14	assbot	http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot
20:14	BingoBoingo	^instructions there
20:14	BingoBoingo	!down polarbeard !up thyself
20:20	pete_dushenski	off to the cinema. g'nite !
20:21	mircea_popescu	https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*u0cOcOtNDobvT8ZsWzfzXA.png << this is actually pretty good.
20:21	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1SacMY1 )
20:26	ben_vulpes	woof
20:26	ben_vulpes	i think that i hate managing projects.
20:27	ben_vulpes	in bezzleland at least.
20:27	ben_vulpes	glorified secretarial work.
20:27	mircea_popescu	ever seen glengarry glenn ross ?
20:28	mircea_popescu	"What are you, you're a secretary, John. Fuck you. That's my message for you."
20:29	ben_vulpes	i have.
20:30	ben_vulpes	the salesmen are also entirely interchangeable.
20:31	ben_vulpes	except for the ones who are not and who don't want anything to do with my asbestos gloves.
20:32	mircea_popescu	quite.
20:32	mircea_popescu	then again john was quite a miserable manager.
20:32	mircea_popescu	all of the defense (you know, picking up when people steal toilet paper), none of the offense, none of the good stuff, like making the team not suck dicks.
20:34	ben_vulpes	i don't see the problem with embezzling a reasonable amount of toilet paper. it's a valid business expense, and the staff don't get taxed for it.
20:36	mircea_popescu	well, it's your fucking toilet paper and what sort of people are these.
20:37	ben_vulpes	hey man i'm just trying to get cash in the kids pockets while paying as little taxes on it as possible
20:37	ben_vulpes	tax*
20:38	mircea_popescu	sounds ever more like a co-op :D
20:38	ben_vulpes	heh
20:38	ben_vulpes	funny you should mention that
20:38	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49654 @ 0.00055672 = 27.6434 BTC [-] {2}
20:38	ben_vulpes	the insane fucking rules around ESOPs. i tell you.
20:39	ben_vulpes	wall street and congress got a hold of the notion and now there are all sorts of arcane bezzle-quirements like "must get valued by a state-blessed valutron", "must be investment grade paper" etc.
20:40	mircea_popescu	the problem here, and it's a fundamental problem, is that the derps that get employed aren't usually investor grade.
20:40	ben_vulpes	ofc not
20:40	mircea_popescu	they didn't want to make a simple "stock ownership for employees is STRICTLY reserved for employees making over 500k a year and over the age of 50" for obvious reasons
		↖
20:40	ben_vulpes	i had to explain how buy-and-hold of non-dividend-paying-stocks the other day wasn't forgoing compounding.
20:41	mircea_popescu	the result is that they have to make an endless array of rules to approximate "not entirely fucktarded teen".
20:41	ben_vulpes	fucktarded teen still gets hoodwinked with worthless paper regularly.
20:41	mircea_popescu	they perceive they gotta try.
20:42	mircea_popescu	the only correct solution is to pay in stock only. you do get alf moaning about his sad fate as an owner of his own fate,
20:42	mircea_popescu	but the alternative is drinking straight crazy from a toilet bowl.
20:42	ben_vulpes	and as a result, my equitizing the staff is miserably difficult.
20:42	mircea_popescu	imo you're trying to make a copper-iron thermostable alloy.
20:42	mircea_popescu	desist.
20:43	ben_vulpes	explain the parallel in a little more detail?
20:44	mircea_popescu	there is absolutely no reason people who make 30 an hour should own stock ; and if they did it certainly shouldn't be yours.
20:45	mircea_popescu	their needs (represented by copper in this diagram) and the realities of owning stock in a small venture (represented by iron in same) have very different reactions to a change in financial context (represented as temperature)
20:45	mircea_popescu	you're trying to meld two things together that will never, ever stay put as temperature varies.
20:46	mircea_popescu	even if through whatever arcana you get it "good enough" for the current context you happen to inhabit, such as your room.
20:47	ben_vulpes	i just had the weirdest experience
20:47	mircea_popescu	whassat
20:47	ben_vulpes	i realized that the shartup bezzletron actually got this right
20:47	mircea_popescu	it did.
20:48	mircea_popescu	well, better than throwing darts anyway.
20:48	ben_vulpes	anyways, thanks for the insight.
20:49	mircea_popescu	hey, they don't pay me $infinity + bonuses + golden dirigibles for nothing.
20:49	ben_vulpes	lol golden dirigible
20:50	ben_vulpes	anyways this place is amazing
20:50	assbot	AMAZING COMPANY!
20:50	mircea_popescu	hey, i started low on the dirigible scale.
20:50	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28650 @ 0.00055705 = 15.9595 BTC [+]
20:51	ben_vulpes	years of slaving for nuggets of insight once or thrice a quarter
20:51	ben_vulpes	i wonder what alf gets out of it, so competent as he is.
20:51	ben_vulpes	rubs the wrath itch?
20:51	mircea_popescu	yes but see, you get them as you need 'em. lyf.
20:52	ben_vulpes	life would be more like you don't get them when you need them.
20:56	ben_vulpes	i am now confronted with the difficult question of what the fuck i'm doing even owning my own stock.
20:56	mircea_popescu	now you are truly welcome.
20:57	ben_vulpes	relatedly, how does one grow worthy of the golden dirigible? kill everyone between you and it? does this hold for the smith? what about brunel?
		↖
20:58	ben_vulpes	clearly, there's no 'worthy' but 'demands'.
		↖
21:03	asciilifeform	brunel was in the up elevator
		↖
21:03	ben_vulpes	what is this 'up elevator'
21:03	asciilifeform	as was, e.g., tesla
21:03	asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: living in a rising, rather than falling, empire
21:04	ben_vulpes	ah
21:04	ben_vulpes	well that's novel and depressing
		↖
21:04	asciilifeform	rewards slightly different sorts of folk
21:06	*	asciilifeform reads thread, and falls down, srsly, ben_vulpes pays his monkeyz stock ?
21:06	asciilifeform	why?!
21:07	ben_vulpes	lol you didn't read the thread didja
21:07	ben_vulpes	toilet paper, and i ain't talkin equity!
		↖
21:07	asciilifeform	something about tax dodges, aha
21:07	asciilifeform	'clever was the turkey, but ended in the soup anyway'
21:07	asciilifeform	(tm) (r)
21:08	ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381525 << same exact story here. californians and it only happens once per year.
21:08	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 20:50:17; BingoBoingo: We only got 3 or 4 inches of snow. Yet rather than remove it derps drive over it until it refreezes into a slick that doesn't remove so easily
21:08	ben_vulpes	well it doesn't actually work, asciilifeform
21:08	ben_vulpes	apparently i'm so scary i'm the only one taking the wine^H^H^H^Htoilet paper home
21:09	asciilifeform	oh and you're not running a proper sov-collapse shop until the workers have to bring own shitpaper
21:09	ben_vulpes	dude heaven forfend
21:10	ben_vulpes	i can see it though
		↖
21:11	asciilifeform	there are tales of truck stops in finland being picked clean, early '90s, even of fixtures like mirrors and toilet paper ~holders~, for a while. then they were re-equipped sov-style to have nothing worth taking
21:12	ben_vulpes	heh
21:12	asciilifeform	in a sufficiently intense collapse one might expect the toilets themselves to disappear, eventually
21:12	ben_vulpes	good old anemic hand dryers
21:12	ben_vulpes	"wipe your hands on your pants, plebe"
21:12	ben_vulpes	it's good for the envirowhatever
21:13	ben_vulpes	(tr) (m)
21:14	asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382055 << you kill the queen of the hive and eat the royal jelly. this gives you five extra appendages, with which to kill other pretenders, and +5 vorpal sword of virility, and a +3 willpower.
21:14	assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 01:57:53; ben_vulpes: relatedly, how does one grow worthy of the golden dirigible? kill everyone between you and it? does this hold for the smith? what about brunel?
21:14	danielpbarron	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1381924 << yes and I'm glad I had the sense to stfu after that line
21:14	assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 00:39:42; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-04-2014#597433 << lol is this early danielpbarron ?
21:15	ben_vulpes	wow
21:15	ben_vulpes	time flies
21:16	asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382021 << around here, there is no shortage of 500k/y,50y.o. mortgaged to the hilt, who would die ~faster than i would~ if income cut to 0
21:16	assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 01:40:55; mircea_popescu: they didn't want to make a simple "stock ownership for employees is STRICTLY reserved for employees making over 500k a year and over the age of 50" for obvious reasons
21:17	asciilifeform	a 500k/y chump is just a slightly higher-powered chump
21:17	asciilifeform	and by no automagic means 'investor-grade' humanoid.
		↖
21:18	asciilifeform	he ~could~ put the 500 in his pocket instead of mortgaging his anal virginity to a 10m cardboard 'house'.
21:19	asciilifeform	BUT these folks are typically 'bred to be eaten', heavily selected in the first place for the kind of behaviours that preclude 500k-in-pocket.
21:19	asciilifeform	at least here in the reservation, this is so.
21:20	asciilifeform	also
21:20	asciilifeform	also i am quite amused thinking about how ben_vulpes quasi-offered me work in a shop where the toilet paper is supposed to be an appealing perk
21:21	ben_vulpes	again with the not reading the threads omg!
21:21	asciilifeform	what did i miss now.
21:22	ben_vulpes	'tis in the logs.
21:22	asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382067 << do i misinterpret this ?
21:22	assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 02:07:25; ben_vulpes: toilet paper, and i ain't talkin equity!
21:23	ben_vulpes	yes. that's a joke about stock in startups.
21:23	asciilifeform	ok so you ~were~ speaking of stock.
		↖
21:23	ben_vulpes	i was talking about several things!
21:24	asciilifeform	re: paying non-investorgrade folks (as in, people who need to ~work to eat~) in stock, do you know the soviet voucher story ?
21:24	ben_vulpes	no, go on
21:24	asciilifeform	!s privatization
21:24	assbot	12 results for 'privatization' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=privatization
21:25	asciilifeform	de-sovietized affairs of all kinds, from oil&gas to factories, etc. were turned into stock, 'vouchers', parcelled out among the peeeeeple
21:25	asciilifeform	and pretty much all ended up sold for nanopennies
21:25	asciilifeform	so that folks could eat a little in the hungry '90s
21:25	ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381688 << 'tis just a step on the road to the obvious solution of entirely disposable versions of all the above
21:25	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 23:07:57; asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: actually these are cheap, esp. in that when they explode, nobody's widow gets a pension
21:26	asciilifeform	... ditto the flats, which were now owned by the residents, making 'insta-millionaires'
21:26	asciilifeform	but somehow most ended up bought up by folks who didn't have to worry about eatin'
21:27	asciilifeform	and now the rest, pay them rent.
21:27	asciilifeform	mega-unsurprise
		↖
21:27	asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-05-2014#654954 << see also.
21:27	assbot	Logged on 02-05-2014 03:15:33; asciilifeform: basic course on russian privatization. 'your formerly state-issued flat is now yours. you are a millionaire!' - 'neato. but my salary hasn't been paid in a year. gotta buy something to eat. what does dinner cost?' - 'half a million.'
21:27	ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381723 << which is mind-boggling given the thing has a what turbofan?
21:27	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 23:19:18; asciilifeform: incidentally 'predator' is a very slow machine, a toy chopper could quite likely catch up with it
21:28	asciilifeform	thing is also large and draggy
21:28	ben_vulpes	we have yet to arrive at state-issued flats for all but the most deeeeeserving of poor.
21:28	ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: japanese for-placement-only netdrones could probably snag one
21:29	asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: and not actually similar, even where exist. american 'sec 8' leprosoria are not in any sense whatsoever owned by the inhabitants
21:29	asciilifeform	whereas sov flat inhabitant could only be dislodged by death or prison term
21:29	asciilifeform	a much stronger ownership than ANYBODY in usa has of ANY real estate
21:30	ben_vulpes	https://gist.github.com/polarbeard/90d9a921f084ed4ae942#file-buildgen-L30 << enough with the aligned shits
21:30	assbot	Makefile · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1K1WJKy )
21:30	ben_vulpes	you can smell the users of fashionable editors a mile away
21:30	ben_vulpes	i'd wager this one uses Atom
21:31	ben_vulpes	or Sublime Dicks
21:31	asciilifeform	bawawhat
21:31	asciilifeform	i thought 'atom' was a www syndicatron thing
21:32	asciilifeform	sublime dicks, on the other hand, is mega-popular for some reason, colleagues had it and i lullzed seeing the nag popup interrupt their session
21:32	ben_vulpes	some "we're going to revolutionize editing text by pretending emacs was never a thing"
21:32	ben_vulpes	lol over there too?
21:32	ben_vulpes	i routinely mock users who have the escape wired into their brains
21:32	asciilifeform	emacs is a thick enough, barbed enough broomstick, that this is not hard to pull off
21:32	ben_vulpes	"what, can't afford 10 dollars for your text editor?"
21:33	ben_vulpes	(or two man-years, yes)
21:33	asciilifeform	doubly lulzy when you're all pro re folks who 'ida' all day long
21:33	asciilifeform	and too lazy to bust the idiot nagware
21:33	ben_vulpes	the mind, it doth boggle.
21:34	polarbeard	lol, sublime
21:34	polarbeard	I use the only and true editor
21:34	asciilifeform	'ed' ?
21:34	ben_vulpes	nano!
21:34	polarbeard	notepad.exe
21:34	ben_vulpes	editor of the dirigible
21:34	asciilifeform	pair'o'wirez+teeth
21:35	ben_vulpes	electron beam and a good set of sights
21:35	polarbeard	aggresive looks to the keyboard
21:35	ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381809 << what? no.
21:35	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 23:52:58; polarbeard: after verifying, patches are split into hunks
21:36	ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381817 << what? what?!
21:36	assbot	Logged on 22-01-2016 23:55:19; polarbeard: there is no v
21:36	polarbeard	again, hunks = intermediate state
21:36	ben_vulpes	why.
21:37	polarbeard	the script is 300 lines, not hard to review
21:37	polarbeard	again, experiments, do not use
21:37	ben_vulpes	if so easy to review, similarly easy to explain.
21:37	polarbeard	ask
21:37	ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1381849 << more dependencies, and again i ask /why/
21:37	assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 00:03:11; polarbeard: you need the diff splitter, splitdiff
21:37	ben_vulpes	why?
21:38	polarbeard	make is a build tool, it can build the press
21:38	asciilifeform	i read the whole thing, still can't figure out the 'why'
21:38	polarbeard	why implementing toposort for the nth time
21:38	ben_vulpes	why split the patches, polarbeard, quit dodging the question.
21:38	polarbeard	linear dependencies
21:38	asciilifeform	wait till polarbeard finds out what ~else~ we intend to implement for the n+1th time
21:39	ben_vulpes	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1381913 << and that's eating the capital of all sins
21:39	assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 00:33:02; asciilifeform: and to leave plenty over for the common piggy
21:39	ben_vulpes	polarbeard: should reimplementing toposort be impossibly painful for you...
21:39	polarbeard	lol, k
21:40	asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: folks who have enough capital to eat the drawn dividends, eat that, and never eat capital. the rest of us, eat whatever falls into the hopper
21:40	asciilifeform	see the su privatization thread again, if this does not make sense.
21:40	ben_vulpes	polarbeard: look at my contribution history. it is very nearly 100% reimplementations of that which asciilifeform or mod6 or trinque have written first.
21:40	ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: i care not why whoever sins however.
		↖
21:41	ben_vulpes	whomever?
21:42	*	ben_vulpes is the undereducated american today as every day
21:42	asciilifeform	i can't speak for ben_vulpes, but the idea that folks who what they do for some explicable reason, rather than because of daemonic possession, was - imho - an advance.
21:42	ben_vulpes	asciilifeform: in reference to?
21:42	asciilifeform	in re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382183
21:42	assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 02:40:39; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i care not why whoever sins however.
21:42	ben_vulpes	oh, whichever sins?
21:43	ben_vulpes	this is like me giving a shit about what gavin and company do and derp about on reddit.
21:43	asciilifeform	the islamic world, for instance, never moved beyond this, and it shows
21:43	asciilifeform	'electron moves because allah willed so'
		↖
21:44	ben_vulpes	the dependency chain of "well i work for satan because i got this useless phd that i got because i had a masters i didn't know what to do with because i got a bachelors that i similarly didn't understand the purpose of because i was told to go to college and" it never fucking ends and i don't really give a shit about the root cause for whatever retardation.
21:44	ben_vulpes	and no this is not "electron" this is why did isaac fuck ahmeds goat
21:45	ben_vulpes	i literally do not care and the spending of time figuring out why the derps do what they do is best left as an exercise to good men like mister backtick who actually enjoy hanging out on bitcointalk.org all day
21:45	ben_vulpes	and for the umpteenth time polarbeard /why/ split the damn patches and introduce a million new dependencies?
21:46	polarbeard	what dependencies?
21:46	ben_vulpes	"i didn't know any better" is, for the record, an entirely acceptable response.
21:46	ben_vulpes	diffsplit
21:46	polarbeard	*splitdiff
21:47	polarbeard	it's a neat tool
21:47	ben_vulpes	but more importantly the patches
21:47	polarbeard	I aliased it to 'spliff'
21:47	ben_vulpes	why won't you answer that one
21:47	polarbeard	linear dependencies, easier to handle
21:48	polarbeard	intermediate state is all about optimization
21:48	ben_vulpes	violates principles of v, though.
21:48	ben_vulpes	this is 'yagni' optimization.
21:48	polarbeard	you didn't read the script
21:48	ben_vulpes	i have to admit, my eyes glazed over.
21:49	ben_vulpes	i saw some turds, asked some questions, am not entirely thrilled with answers.
21:50	*	ben_vulpes has now filed reports with whip-crackers, can go home to die in sweet embrace, will be off shortly
21:52	ben_vulpes	anyways, interesting thing, polarbeard, perhaps i shall test it some day along side the tools written by people i trust like mod6 and trinque and asciilifeform.
21:52	ben_vulpes	in the meantime, try to understand why we use 'v', and why your failure to do so has lead me to stomp on the ground like a petulant child.
21:52	ben_vulpes	led*
21:58	asciilifeform	ben_vulpes: apparently fella wanted to reimplement v in gnumake (as i once considered doing) but made some peculiar design decisions along the way
21:58	asciilifeform	(no, you don't ~have~ to split the patches into patchons, to do this)
21:58	asciilifeform	also it appears that his version requires you to manually munge it every time a new patch is added
21:58	polarbeard	I would have to implement a hash table in bash
21:58	polarbeard	meh
21:59	polarbeard	to keep track of multiple parents
21:59	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80950 @ 0.00055893 = 45.2454 BTC [+] {3}
22:00	asciilifeform	which is how i ended up ~not~ doing it in gnumake
22:00	polarbeard	that's right, I shouldn't have released it this early anyway
22:00	polarbeard	just wanted to get some love
22:00	asciilifeform	but overall, dependency on ~more~ unix tools is a bad thing, and dependency on ~more complicated~ and less-likely-to-be-reimplemented-by-wot-folk-soon tools, likewise
22:01	asciilifeform	polarbeard: why not try your hand at, say, a tx debugger? sorely needed item
22:01	polarbeard	what do you want from a tx debugger
22:01	polarbeard	I wanted to instrumentalize trb a bit, btw
22:01	polarbeard	a tx debugger sort-of-fits in my plans
22:02	polarbeard	feed me :3
		↖
		~ 15 minutes ~
22:18	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48400 @ 0.00055818 = 27.0159 BTC [-] {3}
22:24	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382057 << who's brunel ?!
		↖
22:24	assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 02:03:27; asciilifeform: brunel was in the up elevator
22:24	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382056 << i have nfi. i think it's a lot of "how does one get a gf". not being worthy, per se. not demanding $randomfemale submit, per se. not that far off, either.
22:24	assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 01:58:10; ben_vulpes: clearly, there's no 'worthy' but 'demands'.
22:25	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382062 << but it does make a lot of difference. a rising tide lifts all boats, there was no admiral nelson of the mughal empire. certainly not at that date.
22:25	assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 02:04:27; ben_vulpes: well that's novel and depressing
22:28	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382077 << it happened.
22:28	assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 02:10:21; ben_vulpes: i can see it though
22:32	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382094 << you deeply misunderstand what "investor grade" means in this context. the point is that he is RARE. you understand this ? the fundamental property of capital control in any functioning society without exception possible is that it must be concentrated.
		↖
22:32	assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 02:17:41; asciilifeform: and by no automagic means 'investor-grade' humanoid.
22:32	mircea_popescu	so, if that guy fucks up, as no doubt he will, his distress is merely amusing from a societal pov. and perhaps instructive., but mostly amusing.
22:32	mircea_popescu	and "you only have yourself to blame".
22:33	mircea_popescu	when plebs "own stock", the problem becomes unsolvable, because the ready answer is, "i can't blame myself, for i'm nothing - so i'll just blame the gods"
22:33	mircea_popescu	you can't blame the gods and live to see the morn.
22:34	BingoBoingo	for alf https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZXFI7GU8AAo4jj.jpg
22:34	assbot	... ( http://bit.ly/1Pc6m9Y )
22:35	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382106 "and the moon changes ever as his mind!"
22:35	assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 02:23:28; asciilifeform: ok so you ~were~ speaking of stock.
22:38	mircea_popescu	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382120 << there's no other way out of the idiocy of equality.
22:38	assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 02:27:13; asciilifeform: mega-unsurprise
22:38	mircea_popescu	two step process : a) make everyone ACTUALLY carry the burden of being the lord he was seeing himself as and b) allow the scum to shirk away.
22:39	mircea_popescu	then they'll rant and rave about "dupa ce i-a cheltuit vor merita sa devina muncitori ! Nu mai au nici o scuza ca au devenit saraci!"
22:40	mircea_popescu	the people who don't care if they life or die either live or die. the people who do care - end up paying rent to the ones that live.
		↖ ↖ ↖
22:41	mircea_popescu	this is the cornerstone of any possible sociology.
		↖
22:42	asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382234 << isambard kingdom brunel. quite possibly greatest engineer of all time - built first modern bridges, world's largest ships of his century, for britain
22:42	assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 03:24:11; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382057 << who's brunel ?!
22:42	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 236958 @ 0.00055614 = 131.7818 BTC [-] {6}
22:43	danielpbarron	;;later tell mod6 i think your twatter bot died again
22:43	gribble	The operation succeeded.
22:43	danielpbarron	i like to retweet those greaterthan 100 btc trades
22:43	mircea_popescu	oh oh
22:45	asciilifeform	http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382257 << this'd be rather like a pirate proposing that piracy is the only possible structure. if it were, what would there be for him to plunder ?
22:45	assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 03:41:20; mircea_popescu: this is the cornerstone of any possible sociology.
22:45	asciilifeform	su existed.
22:45	asciilifeform	for the privatizatory to carve up
22:45	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform prison term didn't dislodge. people came back to their own flats.
22:45	mircea_popescu	prison term FOR WHOLE FAMILY
22:45	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: not if 'sentenced to 100th km'
22:46	mircea_popescu	even those got rescinded.
22:46	asciilifeform	on occasion, yes
22:46	mircea_popescu	right. but generally fambly kept the place, for mere conviction. it had to be political-wrathful to dislodge.
22:47	mircea_popescu	anyway - the exact same sort of people sifted to the top in the su as do anywhere else all the time. which is why yeltsin didn't survive and putin did.
22:48	asciilifeform	history is not, fortunately or otherwise, an endless loop of the same thing
22:48	mircea_popescu	pfff.
22:49	mircea_popescu	history is precisely an endless loop of the same thing. also, it has to be.
22:49	asciilifeform	it is the job of the inventor to not permit the endless loop.
22:49	asciilifeform	otherwise, yes, 5000 yrs of egypt.
22:49	mircea_popescu	the inventor is in this matter very closely related to the fashion designer.
22:50	mircea_popescu	they work hard at lipsticking the pig.
22:50	mircea_popescu	fortunately or otherwise, few live the millenia required for most of it to wear off.
22:51	asciilifeform	wake me up from my grave when, e.g., the gunpowder fashion, dies down.
22:51	mircea_popescu	also you'll be very hard pressed to argue that 5000 years of egypt were less than 5000 years hence.
22:51	mircea_popescu	(if for instance your aim is "population", mind that they started on a very narrow base. hard to beat.)
22:51	mod6	danielpbarron: thx for the heads up
22:52	asciilifeform	mircea_popescu: the egypt point is in re: the fact that the 3000th yr was quite like the 4000th and entirely possibly indistinguishable even to pro archaeologist
22:52	asciilifeform	perhaps a better example would've been the 10,000 yrs of australian abo.
22:52	mircea_popescu	you flatter yourself if you imagine there's more difference here than there, to an archeologist so distant in the future.
22:52	mircea_popescu	their shit keeps better than your shit does.
22:53	asciilifeform	no doubt.
22:53	asciilifeform	and the fossilized skeletons of the jurassic keep better still.
22:54	mircea_popescu	besides, the discussion in civilisational terms is besides the point. i guarantee that there was an alf in upper egypt bemoaning the vagaries of fate in the following exact terms :
22:54	mircea_popescu	"Whether 'tis nobler in the mind, to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, or to take up arms against a sea of troubles and by opposing, end them ?"
22:58	asciilifeform	quite possibly.
22:58	asciilifeform	but meanwhile somebody wiped arse with the papyrus.
22:58	asciilifeform	so we're stuck guessing.
22:58	mircea_popescu	so what did not repeat ? the shape of the woman's pants ?
22:58	mircea_popescu	who cares, it's the same ass.
22:59	asciilifeform	telegraphy ?
22:59	trinque	they used to have feet. so what?
22:59	mircea_popescu	telegraphy is not a thing.
22:59	asciilifeform	i know full well that mircea_popescu can arbitrarily redefine 'a thing' for there to be none.
23:00	mircea_popescu	do you miss the things that'll be discovered after you die, perhaps ? nobody cares. you happen to have seen telegraph. they saw the complex calculation of how to pi, and counted them very civilised for it. big whoop.
23:00	trinque	it's simply staring at the tool and thinking of it in isolation, rather than inside the human process in which it is used
23:00	asciilifeform	i can boot up fortran and set 1 to equal 2 also.
23:02	asciilifeform	and i suppose 'human processes' didn't change a lick since pharaonic egypt. aha, right.
23:02	mircea_popescu	quite.
23:02	mircea_popescu	there's exactly nothing to change. what'd you change ?
23:02	mircea_popescu	you still value what you lost more than what you gain by that loss. you still need stimuli to grow geometrically for subjective sensation to progress arithmetically.
23:03	asciilifeform	and my arse still takes up space in 3 dimensions, big whoop
23:03	mircea_popescu	your eyes' cablature still crosses behind your nose.
23:03	mircea_popescu	quite.
23:03	*	trinque notes the former SU guy's fixation on novelty
23:03	trinque	HA!
23:03	mircea_popescu	lol
23:03	*	asciilifeform pictures mircea_popescu blasting off to mothership, tells chums 'this planet is a mega-snore, nothing ~ever~ changes there, let's get outtahere'
23:03	mircea_popescu	i don't mind.
23:04	mircea_popescu	i expect change like you expect nonsense. it comes out of young / silly people.
23:04	asciilifeform	and asteroids.
23:04	mircea_popescu	hardly.
23:05	mircea_popescu	you ever read that thing on the latin language ?
23:05	asciilifeform	'the 80th latin' or what was it
23:05	asciilifeform	on trilema ?
23:05	mircea_popescu	yeah that.
23:05	asciilifeform	aha
23:05	asciilifeform	spiffy
23:06	mircea_popescu	so asteroid. what sort of novelty is that ?
23:06	mircea_popescu	the only news in the world is the history you didn't know and the measurements you took incorrectly.
23:07	mircea_popescu	not like photons went you know what ? this planck constant's boring, let's get a new one.
23:07	asciilifeform	i suppose if asteroid cleaned everybody's clock but the hydrothermal vent microbes, mircea_popescu would (from his dirigible!) still say, 'nothing novel, planet still crawling with whatevers, snore'
23:07	mircea_popescu	pretty much.
23:07	asciilifeform	i cannot say to this, but only take off my hat.
23:08	asciilifeform	*say anything
23:08	mircea_popescu	your earlier mistake was to suppose it's UP TO THEM.
23:08	mircea_popescu	it isn't up to them. some people dont' care. some do. they can't change this anymore than you can be a woman.
23:08	asciilifeform	wai wut? up to whom ?
23:08	mircea_popescu	now, it's true that miseducation can bring one up to think himself the other kind, whichg CAN be remedied.
23:08	mircea_popescu	but this is not unlike retarded mother bringing boy up in skirts.
23:09	mircea_popescu	eventually, if nothing was cut off, duck in the yard can no longer resist the call of ducks in the sky and takes off.
23:09	mircea_popescu	asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1382256
23:09	assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 03:40:38; mircea_popescu: the people who don't care if they life or die either live or die. the people who do care - end up paying rent to the ones that live.
23:10	asciilifeform	this is also how we get http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-01-2016#1381984
23:10	assbot	Logged on 23-01-2016 01:09:02; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381724 << if anyone in afghanistan etc were not fully employed in countig rocks and fucking goats thus managing to find their way here, i'd definitely finance a project to fly a quad to a drone and use the old komet trick
23:10	mircea_popescu	how would you know this ?
23:11	trinque	mircea_popescu │ eventually, if nothing was cut off, duck in the yard can no longer resist the call of ducks in the sky and takes off. << I'm going to go ahead and carve this one into the inside of my skull.
23:11	asciilifeform	in approx same way and to same degree as i know that electron exists.
23:11	asciilifeform	(no, i did not see one with naked eye.)
23:12	mircea_popescu	so what did you see to make this equivalence stick ?
23:12	mircea_popescu	for instance, charge of electron can be measured even from white noise of antenna.
23:12	asciilifeform	aha
23:12	mircea_popescu	and from molar mass / speed of reaction
23:12	asciilifeform	and the sheer mega-virility of pashtun can be likewise measured in 1,001 ways.
23:12	mircea_popescu	and from a number of other things.
23:12	mircea_popescu	but that's not your thesis.
23:13	asciilifeform	thesis is that 'the spartan speaks with his sword', untempered, results in goatfuckistan.
23:13	mircea_popescu	but no. your thesis is that "can only result in" goatfuckistan.
23:13	asciilifeform	as amply confirmed experimentally as anything i'd care to think of.
23:13	mircea_popescu	and this has nothing to stand on.
23:13	mircea_popescu	such as actual sparta ?
23:14	asciilifeform	has same to stand on as 'communism results in misery' etc
23:14	asciilifeform	the totality of the record.
23:14	mircea_popescu	not so.
23:15	asciilifeform	wake me up when the he-men create so much as a 'aa' battery.
23:15	mircea_popescu	there's another great difference, which may be easier to ford. socialism - sacrifice now for later paradise. this - is enjoyable. now. so much so i have not the least care if paradise or no paradise, or as the old man of the mountain said to allah,
23:15	mircea_popescu	"you can keep your virgins"
23:16	mircea_popescu	"i already ate".
23:17	asciilifeform	this being said, i wouldn't mind visiting limonov's (or mircea_popescu's for that matter) planet where folks practice bare-handed head-chopping from sunrise to noon, and measure neutron cross-sections, compose symphonies, after dinner
23:18	asciilifeform	followed by a good ol'fashioned chess-boxing match on weekend.
23:18	asciilifeform	i might get eaten as a snack on said planet, but it'd be almost worth it
23:18	BingoBoingo	!b 3
23:18	assbot	Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/00A35XD.txt )
23:19	mircea_popescu	teh stubborn is strong with this one :D
23:20	asciilifeform	unrelatedly, not long ago had a brain-melting mindfuck, browsed maths crud on 'amazon' rec list, and noticed b00k, 'wait a sec, where did i see the author' - turns out, in email box
23:20	asciilifeform	(at wurk)
23:20	mircea_popescu	this is common neh ?
23:21	mircea_popescu	publish or shittish.
23:21	asciilifeform	personal first
23:21	mircea_popescu	eh, period in my life, i'd go to a party and inexorably leave with a half sack of books.
23:21	asciilifeform	interestingly, never happened when i actually was involved in academic racket
23:21	mircea_popescu	possibly a contributing factor in my distaste with the damned things.
23:22	assbot	[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 108150 @ 0.00055877 = 60.431 BTC [+] {3}
23:22	asciilifeform	my father had a world-class library, left it behind, today cannot stand the idea of amassing any such thing
23:22	trinque	why is the egyptian man's desire for food, a place to shit, and women to fuck different from mine? and if it isn't, whence this idea that my motivations are manifold (and advanced!), his few?
23:22	*	trinque brb
23:22	asciilifeform	i suspect that i will go the same
23:22	asciilifeform	the b00kz become associated with thing-that-anchors-you, i suspect
23:23	mircea_popescu	trinque well, an argument can be brought that yours are a lot more cleaved. like, you know, you can separately desire to lay with the woman as in cuddle, to lay with the woman as in fuck her brains out, to lay with the woman as to impregnate her and so on. whereas poor simple he, just lay with the woman.
23:23	mircea_popescu	now, whether a natural tongue or one surgically bifurcated is a change worth the mention... well... i suppose we must leave this up to the inventor.
23:24	mircea_popescu	lest the academic has to publish to justify his high station, an' the inventor must invent, hence so many new inventions all the time.
23:24	asciilifeform	i'd put the bifurcation as the whole of the man-monkey divide
23:24	mircea_popescu	you would.
23:24	asciilifeform	sure as hell, monkey has one fuck mode
23:24	mircea_popescu	this doesn't explain why young men are so undistinguishable from monkeys.
23:25	asciilifeform	not bifurcated far
23:25	mircea_popescu	"not along - across!"
23:25	asciilifeform	l0lz!
23:25	mircea_popescu	anyway. the difference between man and monkey is that man realises it's not actually worth the hassle.
23:25	mircea_popescu	ie, contemplation, not invention.
23:27	mircea_popescu	or to put it in more familiar terms, you know why the german goes bald arouind the corona, and the romanian arfound the forehead ?
23:27	asciilifeform	speaking of 'indistinguishable from monkeys', i observed that approx 1 train car in 5 has a loud, rambling nutter in it
23:28	asciilifeform	or at least a black fella singing loudly along to his headphones, without a care
23:28	asciilifeform	in a car otherwise full of dour folk making angry eyes
23:29	asciilifeform	so why the german goes bald ... ?
23:29	mircea_popescu	it's a visual joke. imagine me saying "hmm, i wonder how best to do this" whille scratching the top of my head
23:30	asciilifeform	ah!
23:30	mircea_popescu	and then "omfg what have i done" slapping forehead
23:30	mircea_popescu	contemplation. that's the divide. reflexivity. once the hardware started doing recursion, it split.
23:30	mircea_popescu	monkey-human divide cybernetically equivalent to non-recursive / recursive systems.
23:30	asciilifeform	aha, as pictured in hofstadter and minsky
23:30	mircea_popescu	mebbe ? i dun recall
23:31	asciilifeform	(the former wrote a whole mega-l0ltron re: same, 'i am a strange loop')
23:31	asciilifeform	and i suppose the egyptians must have known this
23:31	asciilifeform	or we'd have a... new idea
23:32	mircea_popescu	i'm sure we also have a new language!
23:32	mircea_popescu	such novel!
23:32	mircea_popescu	this conception of "novelty" is not so dissimilar to creationist's conception of darwinism. "he said my auntie's a dog!"
23:33	asciilifeform	i am picturing, one day measured value of plank's constant shifts, mircea_popescu goes back to sleep, says 'this shift was implicit all along, could not otherwise happen.' and will sleep until the very integers get up and walk around.
23:33	asciilifeform	this is not curable.
23:33	mircea_popescu	catch me doing that first, wouldja ?
23:33	mircea_popescu	so far the score's about a trillion to 0 the other way.
23:34	asciilifeform	aha, which is why lulzy
23:35	mircea_popescu	(actually the only sane model of physical cosmogony i know doth require shifting planck constant, if ever so shyly)
		~ 15 minutes ~
23:50	BingoBoingo	;;bc,stats
23:50	gribble	Current Blocks: 394567 | Current Difficulty: 1.1335429980147113E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 395135 | Next Difficulty In: 568 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 8 hours, 11 minutes, and 17 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
23:52	mircea_popescu	(the problem, in the simplest terms, is that for h to be constant energy and spacetime must stay coupled. as such, it's impossible to have an original singularity (aka the big bang) seeing how everything solves neatly for a radius of 0, yielding a pretty field of 0's and a pile of nondetermined constants. conversely : in planck terms, the age of the universe is about 10^61, its radius about 10^61 and its energy about 1
23:52	mircea_popescu	0^61, which is one hell of a coincidence that it should allign so right now! (same results can be expressed looking at the schwarzschild radius, too). )

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