Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2015-06-19 | 2015-06-21 → ↓
00:00 decimation !up gares
00:01 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45950 @ 0.00042306 = 19.4396 BTC [-] {3}
00:04 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14080 @ 0.00042495 = 5.9833 BTC [+] {2}
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00:28 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10592 @ 0.00043002 = 4.5548 BTC [+] {2}
00:41 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40421 @ 0.00043264 = 17.4877 BTC [+] {2}
~ 40 minutes ~
01:22 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17818 @ 0.00043329 = 7.7204 BTC [+] {2}
01:23 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2405 @ 0.00042738 = 1.0278 BTC [-]
01:24 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80426 @ 0.00042129 = 33.8827 BTC [-] {3}
~ 31 minutes ~
01:56 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51550 @ 0.00042833 = 22.0804 BTC [+]
02:07 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12750 @ 0.00041552 = 5.2979 BTC [-]
~ 18 minutes ~
02:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17292 @ 0.00042351 = 7.3233 BTC [+] {2}
02:32 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16274 @ 0.00041552 = 6.7622 BTC [-]
02:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12819 @ 0.00041541 = 5.3251 BTC [-]
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02:57 mats http://h30499.www3.hp.com/t5/HP-Security-Research-Blog/There-and-back-again-a-journey-through-bounty-award-and/ba-p/6756465
02:57 assbot There and back again: a journey through bounty awa... - HP Enterprise Business Community ... ( http://bit.ly/1GpcGCp )
02:57 mats > the team is disclosing full details of the Microsoft Internet Explorer research submitted after receiving confirmation that Microsoft does not intend to patch the Address Space Layout Randomization (ASLR) flaw involved.
03:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50000 @ 0.00041541 = 20.7705 BTC [-]
03:15 mats http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/enlisted/2015/06/18/combat-engineer-specialty-opens-to-women/28916319
03:15 assbot Combat engineer specialty opens to women soldiers ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gpf8sl )
03:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31150 @ 0.00041541 = 12.94 BTC [-]
03:26 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36450 @ 0.00041117 = 14.9871 BTC [-] {2}
03:31 mats http://www.defenseone.com/threats/2015/06/pentagon-building-cruise-missile-shield-defend-us-cities-russia/115723
03:31 assbot Pentagon Building Cruise Missile Shield To Defend US Cities From Russia - Defense One ... ( http://bit.ly/1GphuYu )
03:36 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96796 @ 0.00042048 = 40.7008 BTC [+] {3}
03:39 punkman lolwut
03:44 punkman http://en.people.cn/n/2015/0620/c90882-8909341.html
03:44 assbot Walnut too hard for cellphone screen - People's Daily Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1GpjkZb )
~ 26 minutes ~
04:11 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12950 @ 0.00041201 = 5.3355 BTC [-]
~ 20 minutes ~
04:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10268 @ 0.00041188 = 4.2292 BTC [-] {2}
04:33 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12632 @ 0.00041466 = 5.238 BTC [+] {2}
04:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 138900 @ 0.00040736 = 56.5823 BTC [-] {4}
04:45 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18000 @ 0.00040519 = 7.2934 BTC [-]
~ 21 minutes ~
05:07 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17900 @ 0.00040519 = 7.2529 BTC [-]
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05:22 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54900 @ 0.00042043 = 23.0816 BTC [+] {5}
05:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11050 @ 0.00040363 = 4.4601 BTC [-] {2}
~ 23 minutes ~
05:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14107 @ 0.00042078 = 5.9359 BTC [+]
~ 47 minutes ~
06:41 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00041834 = 4.8109 BTC [-]
06:53 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00042078 = 4.2499 BTC [+]
07:03 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38850 @ 0.00042143 = 16.3726 BTC [+] {2}
07:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32000 @ 0.00041815 = 13.3808 BTC [-] {2}
07:19 punkman http://www.tau.ac.il/~tromer/radioexp/
07:19 assbot Stealing Keys from PCs using a Radio: Cheap Electromagnetic Attacks on Windowed Exponentiation ... ( http://bit.ly/1QIbdSA )
07:24 jurov hush, lest you cause alf to start measuring cardano emanations and delay the project 10 years
07:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31200 @ 0.00042437 = 13.2403 BTC [+] {2}
07:45 mircea_popescu punkman antenna has to be very close and the reason they use it on laptops is that it doesn't actually work on metallic chassis desktops.
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07:47 mircea_popescu (not even going into the details of how running bitcoin in the background provides nearly perfect defense for all this, because good luck distinguishing)
07:51 mircea_popescu "In order to extend the attack range, we added a 50dB gain stage using a pair of inexpensive low-noise amplifiers (Mini-Circuits ZFL-500LN+ and ZFL-1000LN+ in series, 175$ total). We also added a low-pass filter before the amplifiers. With this enhanced setup, the attack can be mounted from 50 cm away. Using better antennas, amplifiers and digitizers, the range can be extended even further."
07:51 mircea_popescu yes, further, but logarithmically. the next 1k spent adds 10 cm. the next 100k spent adds another 10 cm. etc.
07:52 mircea_popescu "Q5: What if I can't get physically close enough to the target computer?
07:52 mircea_popescu There are still attacks that can be mounted from large distances. Laptop-chassis potential, measured from the far end of virtually any shielded cable connected to the laptop" << tells you all you actually wanted to know.
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08:00 PeterL who is running scoopbot_revived ?
08:00 mircea_popescu williamdunne
08:01 mircea_popescu how's the new job ?
08:01 PeterL it's going good, but keeps me pretty busy
08:02 mircea_popescu ;;google anastasia the make-up mogul
08:02 gribble Looks created by Jazmin Makeup Moguls on Pinterest | Bobbi ...: <https://www.pinterest.com/makeupmoguls/looks-created-by-jazmin-makeup-moguls/>; Makeup - Anastasia Beverly Hills: <http://www.anastasiabeverlyhills.com/makeup.html>; Anastasia Beverly Hills | Sephora: <http://www.sephora.com/anastasia-beverly-hills>
08:02 mircea_popescu o.O
08:02 mircea_popescu all these things which exist...
08:04 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19750 @ 0.00042548 = 8.4032 BTC [+]
08:04 PeterL ;;later tell williamdunne want me to give you the nick "scoopbot" for your bot?
08:04 gribble The operation succeeded.
08:11 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28250 @ 0.00042592 = 12.0322 BTC [+] {2}
08:15 mircea_popescu "[How is it possible for an adult American to need to spend full-time maintaining a 20-year-old house? I got some insight into this the other day. << holy shit the us has turned into 80s romania.
08:18 PeterL link?
08:18 mircea_popescu http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2015/06/17/home-school-shanghai-school-and-american-k-12-all-in-one-conversation/
08:18 assbot Philip Greenspun's Weblog » Home school, Shanghai school, and American K-12 all in one conversation ... ( http://bit.ly/1fnFENk )
08:18 mircea_popescu was in the log earlier
08:22 mircea_popescu anyway, the comments on that article are particularly retarded. one schmuck that can barely spell brings the entire "football team fan" argument, without a trace of irony or even the faintest hint of self awareness. he honestly believes that since "technology" today is better than 100 years ago, while the math kids could do out of highschool back then was 10x harder, it then follows that studying hard has no payoff.
08:23 mircea_popescu some other schmuck by the name of "jim" explains that he would really really want everyone to beliueve that hte children of special people are not in fact special by this fact, but merely indistinct mass, because everything's equal, and moreover that kids who didn't go through the everything's equal idiocizer "lack the ability to empathize with their peers", which is codetalk for "do not credit the idiotic propositiopn
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08:23 mircea_popescu that everyoner's equal"
08:24 mircea_popescu i have no fucking clue how greenspun keeps from going on a shooting rampage, living with these idiots.
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08:28 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51630 @ 0.00042824 = 22.11 BTC [+] {2}
08:29 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58820 @ 0.00043053 = 25.3238 BTC [+] {2}
08:30 mircea_popescu all i can see is
08:30 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2014/the-definitive-tract-on-sociopathy/#selection-75.345-75.434
08:30 assbot The definitive tract on sociopathy on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1fnGysY )
08:34 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15909 @ 0.00041799 = 6.6498 BTC [-]
~ 15 minutes ~
08:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32747 @ 0.00043423 = 14.2197 BTC [+] {3}
09:01 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29294 @ 0.00044143 = 12.9313 BTC [+] {3}
~ 22 minutes ~
09:23 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21850 @ 0.00042196 = 9.2198 BTC [-]
09:32 mircea_popescu "Nevertheless, if at issue is to find out if FartFarer was the DukeDickwalker's father or uncle one can always trust the wikidorks got it right."
09:32 mircea_popescu so im binge-reading trilema and shit i love myself.
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09:38 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45800 @ 0.0004199 = 19.2314 BTC [-] {2}
09:43 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18400 @ 0.00044058 = 8.1067 BTC [+]
09:45 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18255 @ 0.0004448 = 8.1198 BTC [+] {3}
09:52 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53900 @ 0.00042428 = 22.8687 BTC [-] {2}
~ 16 minutes ~
10:09 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.00041799 = 2.487 BTC [-]
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10:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38574 @ 0.00041562 = 16.0321 BTC [-] {2}
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10:49 mircea_popescu !up Drhelmut
10:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00041267 = 2.93 BTC [-]
10:51 Drhelmut Yo guys
10:51 Drhelmut thx mircea
10:55 danielpbarron http://lastrhodesian.com/data/documents/rtf88.txt << allegedly by the church shooting guy
10:55 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1K2MYcm )
10:56 danielpbarron > Yet when we learn about anything important done by a black person in history, it is always pointed out repeatedly that they were black. For example when we learn about how George Washington carver was the first bobbaer smart enough to open a peanut.
10:59 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18420 @ 0.0004223 = 7.7788 BTC [+]
11:00 mircea_popescu rhodesia eh ?
11:01 danielpbarron > I dont pretend to understand why jews do what they do. They are enigma.
11:01 mircea_popescu The event that truly awakened me was the Trayvon Martin case. I kept hearing and seeing his name, and eventually I decided to look him up. I read the Wikipedia article and right away I was unable to understand what the big deal was. It was obvious that Zimmerman was in the right. But more importantly this prompted me to type in the words �black on White crime� into Google, and I have never been the same since that
11:01 mircea_popescu day.
11:04 mircea_popescu anyway, as a present day slave owner that thing makes for a pretty amusing read.
11:10 mircea_popescu "A horse and a donkey can breed and make a mule, but they are still two completely different animals. Just because we can breed with the other races doesnt make us the same. " << this is actually a flawed argument on multiple levels. first off, the mule is sterile. second off, the ability to conceive is a very good measure of species proximity. thirdly, there's no proposition of "identity", there's no such thing as bio
11:10 mircea_popescu logical identity, or for that matter identity in nature.
11:10 mircea_popescu the multicultural proposition is idempotence, not identity.
11:14 mircea_popescu "I think that if we could somehow destroy the jewish identity, then they wouldnt cause much of a problem." bwahaha dude...
11:14 mircea_popescu why the fuck ?
11:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32300 @ 0.00042732 = 13.8024 BTC [+] {2}
11:18 mircea_popescu "I will say this though, I myself would have rather lived in 1940's American than Nazi Germany, and no this is not ignorance speaking, it is just my opinion." << holy shit, by the time a guy with serious respect for opinions as a mental construct and a preference for historical us over nazi germany goes shooting up the police station you know the sops problem hath come full circle.
11:19 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00042467 = 5.1597 BTC [-]
11:19 mircea_popescu chomsky warned it will, there's http://trilema.com/2013/the-sops-or-what-might-you-expect-from-government-clerks/#selection-349.0-349.11
11:19 assbot The SOPS, or what might you expect from government clerks on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1K2Phfq )
11:19 mircea_popescu the us is no longer governable. they can do all usual the song and dance about how "crazy" etc the guy was,
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11:20 danielpbarron this isn't the police station guy
11:20 mircea_popescu but there's no stopping the flood of them.
11:20 danielpbarron i guess there were two shootings recently; the church one is all over the news and apparently the police station guy isn't
11:21 mircea_popescu there's going to be weeks with a thousand shootings,
11:21 mircea_popescu if the old whore has enough in her to take it.
11:22 mircea_popescu and ten thousand, and a hundred thousand.
11:22 mircea_popescu "Unfortunately at the time of writing I am in a great hurry and some of my best thoughts, actually many of them have been to be left out and lost forever. But I believe enough great White minds are out there already."
11:23 mircea_popescu the minds are scarcely the problem. which is part of why i credit so little the entire "iq" verbiage. if iq were the determining factor in anything we'd be living on the moon already.
~ 28 minutes ~
11:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41961 @ 0.00043737 = 18.3525 BTC [+] {3}
11:57 TheNewDeal ;;bc,stats
11:57 gribble Current Blocks: 361783 | Current Difficulty: 4.969238635489384E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 362879 | Next Difficulty In: 1096 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 1 day, 4 hours, 17 minutes, and 54 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
12:04 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49689 @ 0.0004489 = 22.3054 BTC [+]
~ 31 minutes ~
12:35 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00044459 = 5.2906 BTC [-]
12:40 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00045217 = 6.1947 BTC [+]
12:41 mats http://news.stanford.edu/news/2015/june/mass-extinction-ehrlich-061915.html
12:41 assbot Stanford researcher says sixth mass extinction is here ... ( http://bit.ly/1IVwTDJ )
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12:42 pete_dushenski "Using fossil records and extinction counts from a range of records" << not the most complete picture, this. sorta hard to draw conclusions on how many cheeses there are in the world based on the ones at your local grocery store
12:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @ 0.0004383 = 9.0728 BTC [-]
12:49 pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169575 << that laptops are only marginally more sane and secure than smartfones, and that proper computing is desktop computing.
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12:49 assbot Logged on 20-06-2015 11:52:26; mircea_popescu: There are still attacks that can be mounted from large distances. Laptop-chassis potential, measured from the far end of virtually any shielded cable connected to the laptop" << tells you all you actually wanted to know.
12:52 pete_dushenski http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169607 << haha. any other gems to share with the class ?
12:52 assbot Logged on 20-06-2015 13:32:44; mircea_popescu: so im binge-reading trilema and shit i love myself.
12:54 pete_dushenski ;;ticker
12:54 gribble Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 243.91, Best ask: 243.92, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 243.8, 24 hour volume: 30090.14772989, 24 hour low: 240.0, 24 hour high: 247.81, 24 hour vwap: None
12:57 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11750 @ 0.00043425 = 5.1024 BTC [-]
13:02 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8500 @ 0.0004383 = 3.7256 BTC [+]
13:04 pete_dushenski been following that spandrell character that decimation put the chan onto a few weeks back and i have to say that i enjoy and appreciate his historical research and perspective, but it's a shame how badly the kid still cowers in fear of his own shadow
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13:04 pete_dushenski talking about how "we need to coordinate to protect from sjws"
13:05 pete_dushenski i left him a comment trying to wipe the shit from his eyes but i dun think it was particularly effective
13:05 pete_dushenski https://bloodyshovel.wordpress.com/2015/06/17/public-speech-is-a-bad-idea/#comment-6724
13:05 assbot Public speech is a bad idea | Bloody shovel ... ( http://bit.ly/1IVyXvE )
13:07 pete_dushenski i still keep reading him. but he really ought to show up here. i'll have to invite him around one of these days.
13:11 pete_dushenski "The French generals were a lot tougher and better educated than almost anyone in US uniform today. They'd started off doing Jedburgh team jumps into occupied France in WW2, went on through the meat grinder of Indonesia (many through Dien Bien Phu) and Algeria. In the meantime, they'd gotten real educations, not degrees in Business Management from West Dickhole State like your typical US officer."
13:12 pete_dushenski "I understood that a career spent in a careerist organization has the effect of undermining character and training/selecting for poor moral courage, and that nobody in the US military with the rank and position to plan and launch a coup had the courage to do so successfully."
13:13 pete_dushenski encouraging, no ?
13:14 pete_dushenski a buncha unmotivated, uneducated, unincentivised, uncivilised deskjockeys make up the most 'powerful' arms of the firstbestlargestfastest state in the world
13:16 pete_dushenski if there is a lizard hitler, he's struggling for air beneath his 1000kg cloak of redditardation
13:16 pete_dushenski last two quotes from http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=2540
13:16 assbot JL: ‘A Career Spent in a Careerist Organization’ ... ( http://bit.ly/1IVA2DJ )
13:17 pete_dushenski and it's too beautiful to not be outside right now so ima be gone with the wind !
13:19 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 133850 @ 0.00042284 = 56.5971 BTC [-] {4}
13:32 thestringpuller i'm real tired of your shit gavin andressen
13:33 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18100 @ 0.00043831 = 7.9334 BTC [+] {2}
13:34 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.00045217 = 1.9443 BTC [+]
~ 31 minutes ~
14:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105300 @ 0.0004292 = 45.1948 BTC [-] {2}
14:13 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27914 @ 0.00041573 = 11.6047 BTC [-]
14:14 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29500 @ 0.00042197 = 12.4481 BTC [+]
14:15 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169637 << 'not governable' is when the tax receipts dry up, and the cities burn. not when schmuck #xxxxxx fires a few pot shots at cop and dies same day
14:15 assbot Logged on 20-06-2015 15:19:52; mircea_popescu: the us is no longer governable. they can do all usual the song and dance about how "crazy" etc the guy was,
14:16 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169570 << actually works great on desktops. peripheral wiring (and power line) - excellent antennae
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14:16 assbot Logged on 20-06-2015 11:45:17; mircea_popescu: punkman antenna has to be very close and the reason they use it on laptops is that it doesn't actually work on metallic chassis desktops.
14:17 asciilifeform (yet another reason to run on a double-converter 'ups' or at least an isolator transformer!)
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14:17 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169656 << see above
14:17 assbot Logged on 20-06-2015 16:49:14; pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169575 << that laptops are only marginally more sane and secure than smartfones, and that proper computing is desktop computing.
14:18 punkman yeah I'd rather do airgap on laptop with battery than desktop
14:18 asciilifeform did i write here re: how a keyboard (esp. a decent 1980s 'ps/2' one) can be 'heard' from across the street ?
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14:18 asciilifeform pretty sure that i did.
14:20 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169653 << orlov is obsessed with that fella
14:20 assbot Logged on 20-06-2015 16:41:04; assbot: Stanford researcher says sixth mass extinction is here ... ( http://bit.ly/1IVwTDJ )
14:24 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169594 << i read that comment differently - that genetic garbage will not turn into something else regardless of where schooled
14:24 assbot Logged on 20-06-2015 12:23:56; mircea_popescu: some other schmuck by the name of "jim" explains that he would really really want everyone to beliueve that hte children of special people are not in fact special by this fact, but merely indistinct mass, because everything's equal, and moreover that kids who didn't go through the everything's equal idiocizer "lack the ability to empathize with their peers", which is codetalk for "do not credit the i
14:25 asciilifeform in the past, there was a great deal of noise esp. in usa re: how slum children, in their rookeries, were the way they were solely on account of lead poisoning. well, where is the lead now? and how are the rookeries ?
14:25 asciilifeform ditto for public schooling vs whatever other kind
14:26 * asciilifeform ran into a number of 'home school' veterans at uni. did not notice anything peculiar about them as people, neither for better or worse.
14:28 asciilifeform incidentally, 'children of special people' ~do~ tend towards 'indistinct mass.' yes, dynasties of thinking folks existed, e.g., the bernoulis, etc. but most are more like feynman's daughter
14:28 asciilifeform nothing to write home about
14:28 asciilifeform 'regression to the mean' ~is~ a thing
14:29 asciilifeform (there is an apocryphal story where feynman was invited to spoodge into william shockley's 'sperm bank of genius.' and he said 'you have the wrong address! go call my father'
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14:29 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78592 @ 0.00043403 = 34.1113 BTC [+] {4}
14:29 asciilifeform )
14:29 TheNewDeal (tm)?
14:32 thestringpuller (r) (c)
14:32 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33858 @ 0.00041595 = 14.0832 BTC [-] {2}
14:33 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169664 << pretty sure i met herr spandrell at handle's party
14:33 assbot Logged on 20-06-2015 17:04:21; pete_dushenski: been following that spandrell character that decimation put the chan onto a few weeks back and i have to say that i enjoy and appreciate his historical research and perspective, but it's a shame how badly the kid still cowers in fear of his own shadow
14:33 asciilifeform unless i have him symlinked mentally with a similar fella
14:34 asciilifeform (these 'alt right' folks have blended into 'indistinct mass' in my head, sadly)
14:41 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169596 << smart folks understand futility very well. which is why 'postals' tend to be played out by borderline tards, to no long-term effect whatsoever
14:41 assbot Logged on 20-06-2015 12:24:13; mircea_popescu: i have no fucking clue how greenspun keeps from going on a shooting rampage, living with these idiots.
14:47 mircea_popescu i doubt it has anything to do with smart.
14:48 mircea_popescu imo, eunuchs understand... futility. and for bonus lol points, fut is the present indicative of to fuck in romanian.
14:49 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: so where are the non-retarded 'postal' ?
14:49 asciilifeform blacked out from news ?
14:49 mircea_popescu i do not think this guy is retarded.
14:50 asciilifeform or, on other end of the spectrum, 'isis' et al - also run by & for tards (and usg stooges)
14:50 mircea_popescu i actually think he is more respectable than pretty much every surviving american.
14:50 asciilifeform respectable perhaps in the chechen 'died a good death' sense
14:50 asciilifeform but what permanent dent did he make in anything?
14:50 mircea_popescu whatever you will call it.
14:50 mircea_popescu yes.
14:50 mircea_popescu he has.
14:51 mircea_popescu obama has left no mark on the world. this man - has.
14:51 mircea_popescu his name i will record, everyone else's - no call.
14:52 * asciilifeform digs for the original link / stats / corpse count
14:54 mircea_popescu you have to dig no further than right here. the fact that you feel teh need to sell me on the idea he never happened is pretty much good enough.
14:55 asciilifeform i'd like to believe that 'happened.' but want to know ~how~. e.g., are there fewer usg cops today than last week? is the fed printing fewer usd ? what, precisely, is this mark.
14:56 mircea_popescu myeah.
14:56 mircea_popescu but the problem is, there's no promise the how will be approachable.
14:56 mircea_popescu otherwise the buddha'd be a cooking recipe.
14:56 asciilifeform so we have 'partizan died for the motherland' situation.
14:57 mircea_popescu i dun think so.
14:57 asciilifeform job of partizan, however, is not simply to 'die with honour', but take some of the scum with him to hell
14:58 mircea_popescu i dun think any of these actually works in this context.
14:58 * asciilifeform is grasping for so much as a hint of what works in this context..
14:58 mircea_popescu let's return to gorgo, the woman that allegedly "spartan women can rule men because they can squeeze them out". her husband famously told her to "mary well and serve her man". also, partizan motherland ?
14:59 asciilifeform sure.
14:59 mircea_popescu well then it's a meaningless concept.
14:59 mircea_popescu ie, applies to everyone dead.
14:59 asciilifeform i get the idea that 'many raindrops -> flood.' but where is the flood ?
14:59 asciilifeform and what is to be flooded
15:00 mircea_popescu nono, the idea is that calling everything the same thing is the opposite of trying to understand. you can't analyse by synthetic means.
15:00 mircea_popescu if your observation about a fact is a word that applies to all facts, you've not even attempted to study the peculiar of the fact.
15:00 asciilifeform i'm balking at the idea that the 'how' is this mystical thing that one cannot even attempt to apprehend
15:01 mircea_popescu one certainly can not attempt to apprehend the death of cesaria evora by saying "niggers"
15:01 mircea_popescu yes, she was black. nevertheless...
15:01 asciilifeform even the 'jihad' folks don't work this way
15:01 asciilifeform they have concrete aims, however simplistic
15:01 mircea_popescu no. i don't think your idea of "aims" actually applies to them.
15:02 mircea_popescu they do not have concrete aims in your definition of such.
15:02 asciilifeform 'the scum must die' is an example of an actionable doctrine
15:02 mircea_popescu it is ?
15:04 * asciilifeform is labouring under a very palpable feeling of failing to get his teeth around the enigma here
15:04 asciilifeform perhaps best comparison is to the mouse in the jar
15:05 asciilifeform say he had beaten his brains out against the glass, while attempting escape. while in a sense this is 'honour', what has mouse accomplished ?
15:05 mircea_popescu but look : the standard european mecanicism is not a universal ideology. actually, plenty of people have never even heard of it. they regard things - often the same things, yes - but that does not necessarily mean they see themwith the same eyes.
15:05 asciilifeform well sure
15:05 mircea_popescu take the easier to digest example of the child who earnestly thinks milk comes from the supermarket.
15:06 mircea_popescu you may think "he eats because hungry - just like me", and he agrees.
15:06 mircea_popescu what if - to him, hungry is the subjective sense of lack induced by watching tv without a milk glass in hand like ... every single case of people watching tv he's seen on tv ?
15:06 mircea_popescu is this, properly, "hunger" ?
15:07 asciilifeform 'philosophical zombie' (tm) (r) ?
15:07 mircea_popescu not even. merely, "european mecanicism zombie"
15:07 mircea_popescu ie, a being not informed by the rote assumptions of your culture.
15:07 asciilifeform btw it is no accident that this term appeared around the same time that these creatures were actually brought into being
15:08 mircea_popescu the ascendancy of ideology does not actually bring anything into being but its own zombies.
15:08 mircea_popescu the rest of the world - unchanged.
15:08 mircea_popescu so the word's backwards.
15:08 asciilifeform so pashtun is actual human, civilized man - zombie ?
15:09 asciilifeform (orlov's '5 stages' book, as well as of course 400 yrs of euro 'wish i were an amerind' material, ends with just this)
15:10 asciilifeform as does limonov, etc.
15:10 mircea_popescu well, not exactly.
15:10 mircea_popescu one's sane and the other mentally ill.
15:11 mircea_popescu because what a dead and decaying civilisation does to the brain is indistinguishable from the early stages of mental illness.
15:11 asciilifeform what planet can i visit to meet sane+civilized ?
15:11 mircea_popescu but the comparison can not be properly carried in civilisational terms - there aren't any. the only common ground is natural, and that's what yields there.
15:11 * asciilifeform readies launcher
15:11 mircea_popescu sane + civilised is only available at times when a civilisation prospers. these aren't these atm.
15:12 mircea_popescu arguably it's right here, but i think it's early for that.
15:12 asciilifeform ergo the closest thing to sane man in civilization is, today, the wrecker ?
15:12 mircea_popescu in my reading.
15:12 asciilifeform even from this perspective, mr postal is ineffectual
15:12 asciilifeform with his pea shooter
15:12 mircea_popescu effectual is not a consideration.
15:13 mircea_popescu the man who doesn't steal - also "ineffectual".
15:13 mircea_popescu as he caught no thieves.
15:13 jurov btw, when it was prospering? in manifest destiny times?
15:13 mircea_popescu definitely the gilded generation.
15:13 asciilifeform jurov: perhaps, at the latest, when it feasted on the ashes of the remaining planet it burned in the world wars ?
15:13 mircea_popescu 1890 probably closest available. it IS possible china is prospering atm, i am blind and clueless
15:14 mircea_popescu asciilifeform the only marginal avenue for all that is claiming mussolini's claimed italian revival was genuine. i speak the language and do not believe the theory, in agreement with the vast bulk of native speakers.
15:14 asciilifeform speaking of, mircea_popescu fan of j. evola ?
15:15 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00041573 = 8.4601 BTC [-]
15:15 mircea_popescu hitler&gobbles' inane insanities certainly do not constitute more of a nordic system than the current socialism.
15:15 asciilifeform (afaik evola is only available in original it and in ru)
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15:15 mircea_popescu i wouldn't go as far as fan
15:18 mircea_popescu asciilifeform let me approach the matter this way : you have an infestation of badgers in your living room. so you set down a dozen traps. overnight, two traps have sprung.
15:18 mircea_popescu the infestation is no longer.
15:19 asciilifeform re: the question of 'when prospered', little story. today i went again to the argentinian fella (who was thrilled that i had visited his home town) to get major work on my car. took a while, and as i always do, went to the antique shops which surround the place for miles around. and, as before, noticed that the artifacts are chronologically upper-bounded around 1955.
15:19 asciilifeform that's when 'prosperity' upper bound.
15:19 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 96000 @ 0.00041484 = 39.8246 BTC [-] {3}
15:19 asciilifeform when the nostalgiacs stop.
15:19 mircea_popescu at that time the first trap to ever spring sprung, and the second had not : a) were the other eleven effectual or ineffectual ? b) was the one that sprung effectual or ineffectual ? note that still badgers around, AND FROM THE POINT O VIEW OF THE BADGERS, every item is just as much a trap as the traps.
15:19 mircea_popescu the man who has not shot an invader in his livingroom is not by this a man who will not. just a trap no invader has stepped on yet, is all.
15:20 mircea_popescu the man that has so shot one, is not by this ineffectual, even if invaders left.
15:20 asciilifeform this'd be if he had shot the usg polizei repossessing his house, or the like
15:20 asciilifeform but he did what, break a window ?
15:20 asciilifeform at random station?
15:20 mircea_popescu im not entirely sure i have enough data to build a chain as you propose.
15:21 mircea_popescu i can but shrug.
15:21 asciilifeform what i'm seeing with the 'postals' is something like what tlp saw
15:21 asciilifeform fools acting out 'hollywood' revenge with small arms
15:21 asciilifeform rather than quietly cooking trotyl for years
15:21 asciilifeform or the like
15:22 mircea_popescu this is what all they who disagreed with chomsky and agreed with civilisational narrative re joe stack also saw.
15:22 mircea_popescu it is the siren song of britni spears.
15:22 asciilifeform 'killdozer' fella was better example, imho
15:22 asciilifeform even herr stack could have done well with his little flying bomb
15:22 mircea_popescu iirc he stacked it with extra fuel or something.
15:22 asciilifeform (why did he wait for the usg snakepit to empty?)
15:23 mircea_popescu anyway, it is no argument to say of the badger trap "but it shot no laser"
15:23 mircea_popescu ie, this may be a valid discussion of trapmakers, as it discusses how much of a trap it is, but not at our level, where we discuss what is is.
15:23 asciilifeform so far best i can think of is 'solzhenitsyn's axe' argument
15:24 asciilifeform yes, if every man with axe, then game over
15:24 asciilifeform but it is never 'every man'
15:24 asciilifeform not even among the pashtuns.
15:24 mircea_popescu well no. you are in the unique position where someone killed himself, and you say "his death was not effectual - as it didn't resolve his problems. lo, they are still here!"
15:24 asciilifeform and 'every man with spear' did not help the zulu.
15:24 mircea_popescu well yes, they are. so are you. so what of it ?
15:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15748 @ 0.000437 = 6.8819 BTC [+]
15:25 mircea_popescu in any case : people who don't steal do not become by this better thieves. they do instead become part of a different world.
15:25 mircea_popescu tho thieves often think in terms of "o look, a slow scam is being set up!!1"
15:25 asciilifeform what of it is that folks who are really in a hurry to commit suicide with an optional small side dish desert of small-scale homicide are not partizans.
15:25 mircea_popescu which i guess makes sense. to them, anyway.
15:26 mircea_popescu asciilifeform they are, however briefly. the others often never get around to it.
15:27 mircea_popescu you know, once ceausescu was finally killed, it came to light there have been thousands of people plotting his demise, allegedly. to hear them talk, some of these had gone on for decades.
15:27 mircea_popescu the response was usually ridicule.
15:27 asciilifeform ditto in post-war fr
15:28 mircea_popescu right.
15:28 asciilifeform but notice he was not killed by lone 'nutter'
15:28 mircea_popescu he nearly was,
15:28 asciilifeform but by crowd that reached 'schelling point'
15:28 mircea_popescu and ww1 was started by exactly such.
15:29 mircea_popescu the notion that human agency is ever "effectual" is such rank nonsense to begion with, that a pretense of "saving action for optimal effect" can only be regarded in psychogenic terms
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15:29 mircea_popescu ie, check out this guy's excuse.
15:30 asciilifeform my original observation was that the folks who have the mental chops to bring about four, five-figure body counts - do not.
15:30 asciilifeform and why
15:30 mircea_popescu because they proceed of causes, not towards purposes ? who yet even cares per se of body count ?
15:30 mircea_popescu they're not playing counterstrike
15:30 asciilifeform partizans - cared
15:30 asciilifeform one fewer german, one fewer train, tank
15:31 asciilifeform at the very least, enemy cannot simply shrug and ignore burned train
15:31 mircea_popescu live partizans cared.
15:31 mircea_popescu if this man were here talking, i would make the same exact observation.
15:31 mircea_popescu as you do, i mean.
15:31 mircea_popescu "hey, this isn't the best plan i ever heard"
15:32 asciilifeform when i say 'ineffective,' my thought is 'usg can survive as many of these as are ever likely to appear'
15:32 mircea_popescu but note that at no point would him getting killed be part of a best plan, so
15:32 asciilifeform without a visible dent
15:32 mircea_popescu it's already a given he's taken at most a local maximum
15:32 mircea_popescu in which case...
15:33 mircea_popescu asciilifeform understand, by subjective criteria as you employ, the english empire still survives.
15:33 mircea_popescu confederate us survive
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15:33 asciilifeform english empire survives!
15:33 mircea_popescu white china survives, and the fucking hittite empire to boot
15:33 asciilifeform usg bought it at fire sale
15:33 mircea_popescu ya ya.
15:36 asciilifeform to rephrase, elephant can be killed by hunter - with bullet, or spear even. but there are not enough chimps in all of africa to kill it by throwing own shit at it, even were all of the chimps to agree to this plan.
15:36 asciilifeform elephant - laughs.
15:36 asciilifeform (or i imagine that it would, if it could)
15:37 jurov i can easily imagine elephat drowning in shit
15:37 jurov *elephant
15:38 mircea_popescu this is only about the elephant for the elephant.
15:38 asciilifeform ;;later tell BingoBoingo today i saw the classic 'mosin' for sale; costing roughly 3x what i last remember seeing...
15:38 gribble The operation succeeded.
15:38 mircea_popescu you're discussing the matter in inadequate terms, as if you were to try and judge software by what happens with the table.
15:39 asciilifeform well, is it possible for me to apprehend the correct terms, whatever they might be, or do i need some of nubbins's lsd ?
15:40 asciilifeform the lsd naturally secreted in my skullcase, apparently does not suffice
15:41 mircea_popescu now that i dunno.
15:42 mircea_popescu i did think teh present conversatiuon made it plainly clear.
15:42 asciilifeform perhaps go back to the observation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=19-06-2015#1169229
15:42 assbot Logged on 19-06-2015 23:26:40; mircea_popescu: mats and cats have had millions of years to develop fishing implements.
15:43 asciilifeform cats 'act from cause, never from purpose' but still have not invented fishing pole.
15:43 mircea_popescu i've yet to see a cat in desperate need of overthrowing the imposition of catdom upon it, however.
15:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: http://www.abelard.org/e-f-russell.php << mega-relevant
15:45 assbot 'And Then There Were None' by Eric Frank Russell ... ( http://bit.ly/1GyXHZL )
15:45 asciilifeform ^ classic, on subject
15:45 asciilifeform has pretty much the same point as mircea_popescu's explanation earlier
15:45 mircea_popescu well i guess ima read it
15:45 asciilifeform and results in equal amount of 'what am i, the single ant, to do, wtf' after reading.
15:46 * asciilifeform wanders off to pet pet
15:56 mircea_popescu ‘Is that so?’ The other eyed him speculatively, had another pick at his teeth. ‘And what makes him excellent?’
15:56 mircea_popescu ahaha
16:11 mircea_popescu !up SirJacket_
16:13 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00041267 = 4.1267 BTC [-]
16:27 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49500 @ 0.00041213 = 20.4004 BTC [-] {3}
16:31 shinohai Interesting read: https://securelist.com/analysis/publications/70673/uncovering-tor-users-where-anonymity-ends-in-the-darknet/
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16:31 assbot Uncovering Tor users: where anonymity ends in the Darknet - Securelist ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gz2OsY )
16:35 shinohai dat netsplit
~ 37 minutes ~
17:13 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76945 @ 0.00041275 = 31.759 BTC [+] {4}
17:14 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30385 @ 0.00040927 = 12.4357 BTC [-] {2}
17:21 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46554 @ 0.00042843 = 19.9451 BTC [+] {3}
17:24 mircea_popescu ahaha
17:24 mircea_popescu ‘Nonsense!’ declared Gleed. ‘There is no such thing. There is no weapon inventable that the other fellow can’t employ once he gets his hands on it and learns how to operate it.’
17:24 mircea_popescu ‘Are you sure about that?’
17:24 cazalla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169801 <<< there are english translations (reading ride the tiger atm)
17:24 assbot Logged on 20-06-2015 19:15:29; asciilifeform: (afaik evola is only available in original it and in ru)
17:28 mircea_popescu that quote is exactly the http://trilema.com/2015/why-representative-democracy-doesnt-work-and-doesnt-make-sense/#selection-151.258-157.105 observation
17:28 assbot Why "representative democracy" doesn't work and doesn't make sense on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1GdnKDj )
~ 21 minutes ~
17:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16376 @ 0.00041009 = 6.7156 BTC [-]
17:53 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169903 << deadly boring on account of none of the material being in any way new (to anyone with even a faint interest in the subject) whatsoever.
17:53 assbot Logged on 20-06-2015 20:31:36; shinohai: Interesting read: https://securelist.com/analysis/publications/70673/uncovering-tor-users-where-anonymity-ends-in-the-darknet/
17:53 mircea_popescu anyway, i will say for the record that a) the "economic" model contemplated by the naive socialist pseudo-anarchists cooking up the story is broken and b) anyone aged 16 who can't figure out how to extract value out of it should go hang.
17:54 asciilifeform wai wut
17:54 asciilifeform extract out of what
17:55 shinohai @ asciilifeform therefore I post for newcomers to understand why tor is smacktarded.
17:55 mircea_popescu http://www.abelard.org/e-f-russell.php < that thing.
17:55 assbot 'And Then There Were None' by Eric Frank Russell ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gdr6GB )
17:55 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: what i meant was, extract a lesson from the story, or extract the juice from the folks portrayed therein
17:56 mircea_popescu it would take me about a month of "earth time" to own one of their townlets, i reckon.
17:56 mircea_popescu and i'm not even jewish.
17:57 asciilifeform author would probably answer 'jew lands and will die of problems before he gets so much as a gram rather than pound of flesh'
17:57 mircea_popescu yaya
17:57 asciilifeform (on earth, we know that this does not happen, sure.)
17:58 mircea_popescu it does not happen period. the "floating value of coin" model gets reliably thundered into the dirt by fixed value coins and arbitrage.
17:58 mircea_popescu it's what built the roman empire, the solidus
17:58 asciilifeform anyway linked piece on account of 'magic power of saying fuckyou no' subject
17:58 mircea_popescu before they fucked it all up, which is what ended it.
17:58 asciilifeform rather than recipe for life
17:58 mircea_popescu aha,
17:58 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17974 @ 0.00041009 = 7.371 BTC [-]
17:59 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: also the implication in the story was that the 'gands' lived in dunbar-number villages
17:59 asciilifeform hence the informal 'coin'
18:00 mircea_popescu i am aware. this makes it not work quite specifically.
18:00 mircea_popescu you ever seen the pawnbroker btw ?
18:00 asciilifeform no?
18:00 mircea_popescu Jesus Ortiz: Say, how come you people come to business so naturally?
18:00 mircea_popescu Sol Nazerman: You people? Oh, let's see. Yeah. I see. I see, you... you want to learn the secret of our success, is that right? Alright I'll teach you. First of all you start off with a period of several thousand years, during which you have nothing to sustain you but a great bearded legend. Oh my friend you have no land to call your own, to grow food on or to hunt. You have nothing. You're never in one place long enou
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18:00 mircea_popescu gh to have a geography or an army or a land myth. All you have is a little brain. A little brain and a great bearded legend to sustain you and convince you that you are special, even in poverty. But this little brain, that's the real key you see. With this little brain you go out and you buy a piece of cloth and you cut that cloth in two and you go and sell it for a penny more than you paid for it. Then you run right o
18:00 mircea_popescu ut and buy another piece of cloth, cut it into three pieces and sell it for three pennies profit. But, my friend, during that time you must never succumb to buying an extra piece of bread for the table or a toy for a child, no. You must immediately run out and get yourself a still larger piece cloth and so you repeat this process over and over and suddenly you discover something. You have no longer any desire, any temp
18:00 asciilifeform (and the impression i got was that the dunbaricity was the ~only~ thing that made the mechanics halfway plausible..?)
18:00 mircea_popescu tation to dig into the Earth to grow food or to gaze at a limitless land and call it your own, no, no. You just go on and on and on repeating this process over the centuries over and over and suddenly you make a grand discovery. You have a mercantile heritage! You are a merchant. You are known as a usurer, a man with secret resources, a witch, a pawnbroker, a sheenie, a makie and a kike!
18:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16100 @ 0.00043154 = 6.9478 BTC [+]
18:00 mircea_popescu Jesus Ortiz: [long pause] You really some teacher, Mr. Nazerman. You really, really 's the greatest.
18:01 mircea_popescu it is as plausible as the notion that "mecanicity" makes perpetuum mobile more plausible.
18:01 mircea_popescu sure, plausible, if you're the plausing kind.
18:01 asciilifeform l0l
18:02 asciilifeform incidentally, the final nail in the coffin of perpetuum mobile wasn't really driven in until emmy noether..
18:03 asciilifeform so it is not the best example of 'plainly impossible to any thinking person'
18:03 mircea_popescu it wasn't intended as that.
18:05 asciilifeform mainly speaking from an ancient pet peeve of mine, where folks who slept through noether and even carnot often map '2nd law of thermo' to a childhood-received 'who does not work, does not eat' and think of it as a 1:1 map
18:05 asciilifeform whereas it is anything but
18:07 mircea_popescu yes well, the understandings of the crowd as to the justification of rules is made for the comprehension needs of the crowd, not for the expressive needs of the rules.
18:07 mircea_popescu ask someone why shouldn't they fuck their sister next time you want an angry puzzled man.
18:08 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: my understanding is that folks who didn't get 'westermack-effected' for whatever reason, having sisters, are busy fucking them at this very minute
18:08 mircea_popescu doubt it tbh
18:08 asciilifeform (as pictured for mass pr0nification in 'game of thrones' etc.)
18:09 asciilifeform there was a reddit 'ama' thread linked here last year, where sisterfuckers chimed in by the battalions
18:09 mircea_popescu next you're gonna be quoting wikipedia at me.
18:09 mircea_popescu what is this, the future ?
18:09 asciilifeform (unless they are all philipinos...)
18:10 mircea_popescu how about they were all bitcoin experts from "the community" of derps that never saw a bitcoin ?
18:10 asciilifeform this particular subject being 'phillippinized' would be almost equally strange as were the reports genuine
18:12 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49000 @ 0.00043412 = 21.2719 BTC [+] {3}
18:12 asciilifeform at any rate, i'm not an inquisitor and cannot comment re: whether the sisters were fucked in reality, or in imagination, and if so, whos
18:12 asciilifeform only that the subject is of perennial interest to homo redditicus
18:13 asciilifeform (and to fans of 'thrones')
18:13 mircea_popescu which leads back to the point.
18:14 mircea_popescu perpetuum mobile is also of perennial interest to the same apeish overaged teen mind.
18:14 mircea_popescu for the exact same reasons, too.
18:14 asciilifeform at least once was.
18:14 mircea_popescu right, fashions change.
18:14 asciilifeform what reasons specifically ?
18:15 mircea_popescu specifically eh ? what do you want of me.
18:15 asciilifeform 'for the exact same reasons'
18:15 mircea_popescu what reasons specifically drive children to immitate speech sounds ?
18:15 mircea_popescu ah that. well, poking around at the world, right ? same reason they stick things in their mouth.
18:15 asciilifeform i was expecting an analogy between receiving free energy from the aether and hypothetical easy short-circuit solution to problem of what to fuck
18:16 mircea_popescu fucking is not easy by definition.
18:16 asciilifeform 'easy' is perhaps not right word
18:16 asciilifeform 'accessible' ?
18:18 mircea_popescu if you think about it, men tend to value "fuck me then i take off" girls the most, coworkers less than that and wives even less.
18:18 mircea_popescu who the fuck would want a sister on his head.
18:19 asciilifeform might want to ask the aficionados
18:19 * asciilifeform has no sisters
18:19 mircea_popescu ah, no, we're discussing economics here. the ship goes uphil like any othjer ship going uphill.
18:19 mircea_popescu affections not related.
18:20 asciilifeform speaking of!
18:21 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7973 @ 0.00043809 = 3.4929 BTC [+]
18:21 asciilifeform when i moved here, as a boy, i was constantly puzzled as to why whole wash.,d.c. region is covered in signs depicting... a ship going uphill! >> http://www.lehi-ut.gov/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/snap.a1.gif
18:21 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1GdubX2 )
18:21 asciilifeform poor sailboat is just short of sailing off the cliff.
18:22 asciilifeform (edge of the earth?)
18:22 asciilifeform (turned out, the sign means 'neighborhood watch!' and depicts a crossed-out 'spy vs spy' figure)
18:23 asciilifeform back to the sisters, my understanding is that if 'westermarck' fails, they work just as well as arranged-wives and the like
18:23 asciilifeform (female, for whatever reason isn't successfully escaping, etc.)
18:23 * asciilifeform not expert
18:26 mircea_popescu i dunno about that.
18:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54409 @ 0.00040788 = 22.1923 BTC [-] {2}
18:30 shinohai Music to code by: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2UEyF1wjvU
18:30 assbot Andrés Segovia - Old Recordings (Bach,Scarlatti,Sor,Granados,Tàrrega,Malats,Mendelssohn) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gdvrtm )
18:30 decimation yeah I don't get how this 'black church postal' guy accomplished anything
18:31 asciilifeform decimation: iirc thread was about 'police station postal' of about the same time
18:31 asciilifeform (mostly newsblackouted)
18:31 decimation the linked diatribe was the black church guy
18:31 decimation since yanked but here https://web.archive.org/web/20150620135047/http://lastrhodesian.com/data/documents/rtf88.txt
18:31 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1GdvC7L )
18:32 decimation his logic went somethingl ike 1.) found out black people suck 2.) "We have no skinheads, no real KKK, no one doing anything but talking on the internet. Well someone has to have the bravery to take it to the real world, and I guess that has to be me.
18:32 decimation "
18:32 decimation 3.) now what?
18:32 cazalla profit
18:32 decimation I guess
18:32 asciilifeform 3) ??? 4) profit!!11!!
18:34 decimation even if all he wanted was to increase the 'white team' 'score' at the expense of the 'black team' - it's not at all obvious that this was accomplished
18:34 cazalla having read his little manifesto, the kid is without a doubt a /pol/ack (muh rhodesia, jews etc etc)
18:35 decimation cazalla: it's like someone read moldbug but was unable to comprehend the parts about how this kind of action is hopeless
18:36 mircea_popescu oh i thought it was the police station guy
18:36 decimation if anything, this only gives the 'witch hunters' even more ammo
18:36 asciilifeform decimation: the 'alt right'-sphere's fixation with rhodesia is - afaik - definitively traceable to mr mold
18:36 decimation agreed
18:37 mircea_popescu srsly ?
18:37 decimation in modern times, I suspect that's the case, yes
18:38 asciilifeform decimation: i was arguing even beyond 'unable to comprehend the parts about how this kind of action is hopeless' to 'clinically retarded'
18:38 cazalla you can always find a national anthem of rhodesia thread on /pol/ too, lyrics and all lol
18:38 decimation asciilifeform: yeah I would agree with that too
18:38 asciilifeform for instance, it is widely (afaik) known that the highest-scoring 'postal' in usa used a bottle of ordinary petrol as the weapon
18:38 decimation is that the guy in the 1930's
18:38 asciilifeform yet the schmucks insist on demonstrating their (lack of) marksmanship with grandfather's pistol or whatnot
18:38 asciilifeform decimation: 90s
18:39 mircea_popescu decimation http://trilema.com/2013/a-very-unfair-perspective/ count ?
18:39 assbot A very unfair perspective. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEvasv )
18:40 trinque bahaha this meme that if any whites suck, it's the fault of teh blacks
18:40 trinque I read about as much of his little manifesto as I could be bothered to
18:40 decimation mircea_popescu: I think that was after moldbug's article
18:40 trinque sorry, blacks didn't do walmart and country music
18:41 decimation I always figured you were inspired by him
18:41 asciilifeform trinque: notice that it does not even occur to the tard to kill one of the ~actual~ architects of his misery
18:41 decimation http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2008/04/open-letter-to-open-minded-progressives.html < moldbug mentions here
18:41 assbot Unqualified Reservations: An open letter to open-minded progressives (part 1) ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEvozY )
18:42 trinque asciilifeform: of course not; guy's capable of "everything is because of the outgroup" and nothing more
18:42 decimation asciilifeform: yeah that's my point, even if he has decided black people suck, it's quite a leap to think that randomly murdering them is going to help anyone's lot
18:42 trinque is that not the most primordial rationale of all time?
18:42 asciilifeform mr mold is an incorrigible subscriber to the particular flavour of mental wankery described as 'resistance through culture' in one of mircea_popescu's articles
18:43 decimation yeah he certainly does not advocate 'resistance through action'
18:43 trinque asciilifeform: is that where I protest the patriarchy by wearing a skirt?
18:43 decimation which is why it was so amusing that he was booted from that programming conference
18:44 asciilifeform mircea_popescu might say that it is because mr mold has no balls. i would say that i cannot comment on whether he has balls, but will point out that having a brain is a handicap if contemplating active resistance to usg, without support of foreign army, from inside its walls
18:44 decimation http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/08/country-that-used-to-exist.html < here was yarvin's big article on rhodesia
↖
18:44 assbot Unqualified Reservations: The country that used to exist ... ( http://bit.ly/1GdxjCf )
18:45 decimation asciilifeform: yes, if 'having a brain' means seeing about two moves ahead - would put a damper on 'action'
18:46 asciilifeform i will describe, for the benefit of n00bz, the typical career path of 'let's resist usg through action' in usgland: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-04-2014#623044
↖
18:46 assbot Logged on 13-04-2014 22:27:18; asciilifeform: the 'a) wanna buy strela? b) fuck off c) really, dontcha? b) ok sure c) off to jail' thing has been going so long that it doesn't even make national news every time now.
18:46 asciilifeform the non-retarded version of this, where a fella spends 20 years in his garage building the 'strela', afaik has not yet happened.
18:46 decimation asciilifeform: of course that man would probably meet a similar end
18:47 decimation but is more likely to achieve some of his ends
18:47 asciilifeform end result, best case, probably would resemble http://trilema.com/nobody-could-have-foreseen-their-using-a-plane-like-a-rocket
18:47 assbot Nobody could have foreseen their using a plane like a rocket on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEvZl2 )
18:47 asciilifeform best-known instance is probably 'killdozer'
18:47 asciilifeform and notice, there was no army of killdozers to follow heevmeyer.
18:48 decimation is that the police station guy?
18:48 asciilifeform !s killdozer
18:48 assbot 4 results for 'killdozer' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=killdozer
18:48 asciilifeform http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-05-2014#691525
18:48 assbot Logged on 28-05-2014 00:38:27; punkman: as far as rampages go, the bulldozer guy was pretty cool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZbG9i1oGPA
18:49 decimation oh yeah him heh
18:50 asciilifeform fact is, there is not any meaningful resistance to usg on own turf. there are criminals who imagine themselves resisting, e.g., mexican mafia, but actually live in symbiosis with 'war on drugs'
18:50 asciilifeform just as there were smugglers in ussr
18:51 asciilifeform some of whom imagined themselves 'resistance'
18:51 decimation asciilifeform: no, in fact said mexicans end up justifying budgets for even more usg
18:51 mircea_popescu decimation not that i know. link to what inspired me maybe ?
18:52 mircea_popescu oh there it is ty.
18:52 decimation yeah the second one in 2007
18:52 mircea_popescu holy shit man. a quote from wikipedia and the next mention of the word in comments ?!
18:53 mircea_popescu this guy's got a pretty fantastic racket. i hope i won't next hear i've heard about bitcoin from curtis yarvin.
18:54 decimation mircea_popescu: look at this link: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1170054
18:54 assbot Logged on 20-06-2015 22:44:56; decimation: http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/08/country-that-used-to-exist.html < here was yarvin's big article on rhodesia
18:54 mircea_popescu <trinque> asciilifeform: is that where I protest the patriarchy by wearing a skirt? << it's a very specific locus to east european "anticomunism" of the contemptible kind.
18:54 mircea_popescu not so unlike all the people who were planning to kill hitler, but never got around to it.
18:55 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: a few months ago, i reread a selection of mr mold, and it struck me as loudly, profanely stinking of 'resistance through culture'
18:55 mircea_popescu decimation aok
18:55 mircea_popescu asciilifeform understand, nothing in nature comes without a cost. flying bugs are not by this fact more fit than worms. even if flying is kinda cool.
18:55 asciilifeform almost like he was laying groundwork to turn into a top contender for 'was planning to kill hitler' after the fact
18:55 mircea_popescu intelligence also comes at a cost.
18:55 mircea_popescu ones in charge of managing it.
18:56 mircea_popescu asciilifeform apparently that's working, at least to some degree, if people seriously consider him an influence on anything.
18:57 mircea_popescu decimation ah ok i see what you mean.
18:57 mircea_popescu alright, fine assumption, but i had no idea.
18:59 asciilifeform mr mold could be described as a founder of a very depressive sort of 'dismal science' - where a great many folks with no cultural literacy to speak of, no remotely-plausible avenue for constructive action, were led to realize approximately how their civilization anally raped itself
18:59 asciilifeform granted he only shows a kind of silhouette of the monster (all he personally is able to see with own eyes)
18:59 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10900 @ 0.0004106 = 4.4755 BTC [+]
18:59 asciilifeform but the tentacles are painted clearly enough
19:00 mircea_popescu like "In fact, what Power really means is that a government "cannot survive indefinitely" if it defies the wishes of the international community. Ie, of, well - Power. Here we have the ultimate cause of Rhodesia's destruction. I believe this is a clear and undisputed fact."
19:00 asciilifeform mr mold was raised by diplomats and knows well what 'international community' shibboleth actually means
19:00 asciilifeform this is clear from the rest of the body of work
19:01 decimation yeah, if anything his strongest indictments are against usg's foreign policy 'complex'
19:02 mircea_popescu Todd, basically, was the Universalist to end all Universalists.
19:02 mircea_popescu ahahaha what!
19:02 mircea_popescu ok the similarities are unnerving
19:02 mircea_popescu what the fuck happened here.
19:04 mircea_popescu so i write an article with a cultural grounding introduction referencing newman and proceed to the historical discussion, some guy writes (a decade prior) an article using tacitus in thesame function and casually mentioning garfield todd
19:05 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: next you'll complain of melted brain on account of ancient chinese having had, almost word for word, euclid's gcd algo
19:05 mircea_popescu one'd thing there is some room for personal taste in praxis and stylistics already
19:06 decimation well, as yarvin himself wrote, "he truth, being true, is accessible to all - though not all will get it all."
19:06 asciilifeform i for one, when first encountered mircea_popescu's articles, scarfed'em up on account of a feeling of 'like mr mold but without the latter's impotent thrashing and cultural illiteracy'
19:07 mircea_popescu the telegraph obligingly deleted the linked reference to how the senator's daughter was raped by the praetorian guards, so now there's no reference.
19:07 mircea_popescu fucktarded press
19:07 mircea_popescu "What would Tacitus make of this? Frankly, I'm not sure he could even process it." << hot damned...
19:07 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00041447 = 9.1183 BTC [+]
19:08 mircea_popescu i think tacitus lived in a marble tub his entire life, in a museum in illyricum.
19:08 asciilifeform moldbug, i will point out, speaks not one language save his native engl. that he was able to reconstruct even a semblance of coherent picture of anything while sitting in the anglo junkyard, is remarkable by itself
19:08 decimation asciilifeform: yes, what you describe is roughly what attracted me to #b-a
19:09 mircea_popescu that is a point.
19:10 mircea_popescu "the battle between missionaries and settlers, which ended of course in the victory of the former, was the great conflict of colonialism." << this is broadly coirrect. in the us, decolonialization took the form of "dry states", the missionaries fought against settlers brandied as "the bar lobby" there.
19:10 mircea_popescu i wonder where he picked up the tidbit.
19:12 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: his entire thesis is that the more demented sects of puritanism merged together, shed the unnecessary legs and wings, and turned into usg as we know it (or rather, the original intellectual underpinnings thereof)
19:12 mircea_popescu (and yes, i fundamentally do not like the guy because he reads exactly like andrei plesu, gabriel liiceanu or an entire smattering of entirely identical superficially "cultured", inept and impotent romanian "intellectuals" of the "Resistence throguh culture" brand).
19:12 decimation asciilifeform: I kinda arrived at this thesis from a theological perspective earlier, which is also why moldbug appealed
19:13 mircea_popescu asciilifeform as in http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com.ar/2007/05/bdh-ov-conflict_07.html ?
19:13 assbot Unqualified Reservations: The BDH-OV conflict ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEyCU7 )
19:13 mircea_popescu i remember reading that at some point and not being impressed. prolly the log has my expletives, ima look.
19:13 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the question that is of interest perhaps only to me, is whether mr mold has this 'smell' on account of character defect, or because he lives in a plesu-shaped box that he found no way of escaping
19:14 mircea_popescu oh, you know the guy ?
19:14 asciilifeform from mircea_popescu's articles
19:14 mircea_popescu oh oh
19:14 mircea_popescu did you read the one about the german/romanian nobel prize woman debate ?
19:14 asciilifeform dont think so
19:14 mircea_popescu it was such fine closure.
19:14 mircea_popescu ;;google site:trilema.com herta muller
19:14 gribble критика и самокритика on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D0%B8-%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0>; Tipologiile homosexualitatii on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/tipologiile-homosexualitatii>; October 2010 on Trilema - A blog by (1 more message)
19:15 mircea_popescu da fuck
19:15 asciilifeform thing about mr mold is that the impotent thrashing is very much that of the prisoner 'turning inward', as pictured in 'chess novella'
19:16 asciilifeform the 'cost of intelligence', as mentioned earlier by mircea_popescu, is that the clever fella is not ever content to buy rifle, weld some steel on an old van, shoot out a police station window, and die
19:16 asciilifeform because any moron can do that
19:17 mircea_popescu ^
19:17 asciilifeform but no, he wants to use what the gods gave him.
↖ ↖
19:17 mircea_popescu it's not cowardice per se, even though the drill sargeant thinks so. and the opposite view is not "deliberate stupidity"
19:17 mircea_popescu asciilifeform well it was here site:trilema.com herta muller
19:17 mircea_popescu oops i mean here : http://www.romanialibera.ro/cultura/dialogul-herta-muller-gabriel-liiceanu--moment-istoric-pentru-cultura-romana-200986
19:17 assbot Romania libera - stiri iesite din tipar - actualitate, investigatii, politica, cultura, diaspora, video, anunturi de mica publicitate ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEyZ0R )
19:17 mircea_popescu but meanwhile it got beleeted. because press, ofcourse.
19:18 asciilifeform memoryholed.
19:18 mircea_popescu yeah. woman wiped the floor with the guy.
19:18 mircea_popescu and this was obviously not acceptable, being how inept as he may be, and a fraud as he may be, nevertheless he is the palatial "scientist"
19:19 mircea_popescu a less interested, more naive me kept no records.
19:19 asciilifeform 'palatial scientist' only function on own turf, where he has a direct line to the palatial executioner. like lysenko did
19:19 mircea_popescu well it is a romanian newspaper.
19:23 * jurov runs crying to mircea_popsecu "i broke eulora again and chetty isn't around!!!"
19:23 mircea_popescu now you've done it!
19:23 mircea_popescu gotta wait till she comes by.
19:23 jurov :)
19:24 mircea_popescu i'm not gonna run it up myself because she was instrumented to test i dun recall what and i fear messing it up.
19:24 mircea_popescu in other news, a more powerful me today has the intel dept ready to fix it for him! ha-HA! https://archive.is/Tpk6O
19:24 assbot Dialogul Herta Muller-Gabriel Liiceanu, moment istoric pentru cultura română | Romania Libera ... ( http://bit.ly/1NegGLB )
19:24 jurov yea, we'd miss chetty
19:24 mircea_popescu asciilifeform ^ if you feel like it.
19:25 asciilifeform neato!
19:25 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22750 @ 0.00041447 = 9.4292 BTC [+]
19:25 jurov how you instrumented her?
19:25 mircea_popescu who what ?
19:25 mircea_popescu asciilifeform guy notably claims that he was resisting communism by not registering his typewriter.
19:26 mircea_popescu fancy that.
19:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: would you believe, that type of character existed in su by the battallion
19:26 jurov how did you instrument chetty?
19:26 mircea_popescu im sure the fed is resisting socialism by not reporting all it prints to washington
19:26 mircea_popescu jurov she did, the server
19:26 asciilifeform and the basic root is http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1170141
19:26 assbot Logged on 20-06-2015 23:17:19; asciilifeform: but no, he wants to use what the gods gave him.
19:26 mircea_popescu asciilifeform course i'd believe. even met some
19:26 jurov i was jesting
19:27 mircea_popescu but you weren't instrumented for it!
19:27 jurov :(
19:27 asciilifeform thinking folks, faced with 'chop wood in magadan or prostitute for the party' tend to end up 'getting down on knees, ready to please'
19:27 decimation asciilifeform: yes, imagine that you were a 'closet dissenter' working for the fed. the most 'reform' you could get away with would be symbolic at best
19:27 asciilifeform the exceptions - we don't even get to hear about.
19:27 asciilifeform (because - how?)
19:28 mircea_popescu asciilifeform in any case, i had to spend half my fucking life yelling at people that "the difference between stupid and smart is that stupid can't be smart, BUT SMART CAN BE STUPID. IF YOU'RE UNWILLING TO EVER BE STUPID YOUR SMART'S JUST ANOTHER FLAVOUR OF DUMB!1111"
19:28 decimation but I would also note that 'come be an inside reformer' is also a usg recruitment trick
19:28 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: for how long would you personally be willing to 'run stupid on emulator' ?
19:28 asciilifeform keep in mind that this is considerably more than is ever asked of stupid folks
19:28 mircea_popescu for how long would you personally be willing to run a chip on the breadboard ?
19:29 asciilifeform not sure how analogous
19:29 mircea_popescu and no, stupid folks are perpetually asked to run smart on emulator, and they don't even have one.
19:29 mircea_popescu hence "<mircea_popescu> yes well, the understandings of the crowd as to the justification of rules is made for the comprehension needs of the crowd, not for the expressive needs of the rules."
19:30 mircea_popescu if intelligence is not an option, it is not intelligence.
19:30 asciilifeform vulp!
19:30 mircea_popescu lol
19:30 mircea_popescu vulp', all hipster like
19:30 asciilifeform pronounced the way davout did, or more like 'gulp' ?
19:30 mircea_popescu it's pronounced "phtephen"
19:31 asciilifeform !up ben_vulp`
19:34 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: fact is, folks who are placed in the unenviable position of 'emulate stupid' still try to use their mind. just like a prisoner in solitary cell, who theoretically does not really need legs for much of anything, will still wiggle them around
19:34 asciilifeform the result, in best case, tends to be something like mr mold.
19:34 mircea_popescu just as long as he doesn't wiggle them into kicks to his shn
19:35 mircea_popescu your type of intelligent person is not unlike the guard that shoots himself on the third day, because bored.
19:35 asciilifeform phun phakt: when i worked in u.s. army, a guard on the campus did just that
19:35 asciilifeform whether it was on account of boredom, i never learned
19:37 mircea_popescu not a very good guard.
19:37 asciilifeform the difficulty of 'emulate stupid for the rest of your life' is likely the reason for the infamous u.s. police dept. which figured in a lawsuit where some schmuck was rejected from police academ for scoring too high on 'iq test'
19:37 mircea_popescu the difficulty's not in question. the difficulty of finding wet cunts biweekly for the rest of your life is even more burdensome
19:37 mircea_popescu what of it.
19:38 asciilifeform incidentally, here in usaschwitz we have a plague called 'overqualification'
19:39 asciilifeform where god help you if you have, say, uni degree and history of serious technical work, and suddenly need to make ends meet by digging trenches, washing dishes, etc
19:39 mircea_popescu amusingly, it existed on the porn sets too.
19:39 mircea_popescu most people wouldn't hire girls what went to school for the longest time.
19:39 asciilifeform -- unless you can fabricate a convincing 'blue collar' work history and biography (in which case, work for cia...) you're phucked
19:40 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2014#813861 << the previous pass through that thing if anyone gas.
19:40 assbot Logged on 29-08-2014 00:38:19; mircea_popescu: "This should be reason enough for anyone to avoid taking up cudgels on behalf of either."
19:42 asciilifeform ^ speaking of which, brings back to the point of whether mr mold is a disinfo agent. not that i can say definitively, but imho the best argument that he is not, is the difficulty of formulating a picture of a hypothetical 'moldbug minus the restraint' who does ~not~ advocate inaction
19:42 asciilifeform what would this even look like?
19:42 asciilifeform the question of why he is still alive and walking free in usaschwitz would naturally invite itself
19:43 asciilifeform (leaving aside, even, the question of just ~what kind~ of non-inaction he would advocate..)
19:44 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2013/why-i-am-not-a-white-nationalist/#selection-933.0-933.687 << related, mostly because of the "The world belongs to the active, not to the thoughtful."
19:44 assbot "Why I am not a white nationalist" on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEBrV7 )
19:44 mircea_popescu yes, it is better to be smart and active than it is to be stupid and active.
19:44 mircea_popescu but otherwise, being smart embodies no benefit.
19:45 asciilifeform e.coli may not be very clever, but they have 'active' down pat.
19:45 asciilifeform so perhaps world belongs - to them.
19:45 asciilifeform (or to cockroaches?)
19:46 mircea_popescu i don't seem to be much bothered by either, but sure.
19:46 decimation only bothered if they manage to overpower your similiarly active immune system
19:47 mircea_popescu which is in no part active because an intelligent being somewhere has failed to feed it crap for decades now
19:48 mircea_popescu no small part*
19:48 asciilifeform which brings back to the 'die in the van' thing
19:48 asciilifeform and, for that matter, last week's question about coherent laser light
19:49 mircea_popescu "Ian Smith could never have achieved any political prominence in prewar Britain, because his origins were decidedly middle-class": what, unlike Ramsay MacDonald, who was the bastard son of a farm servant, and twice PM?
19:49 asciilifeform (as in, what makes it more interesting from an engineering perspective than white light)
19:49 mircea_popescu first comment, too.
19:49 mircea_popescu must suck to not have a clue.
19:50 asciilifeform and the question of what differentiates a proper war from an idiot jaquerie
19:50 asciilifeform (of which europe saw fuck knows how many, and all ended exactly the same way)
19:53 mircea_popescu ever read caragiale's story of 1907 ?
19:53 asciilifeform dont think so
19:55 mircea_popescu it is excellent, on one hand because the man is supremely qualified - he is, no doubts about it, he who wrote romania's software, since the kingdom days - and because he actually lived it and saw it, and its context. top notch historical primary source.
19:55 mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2012/o-bucatica-de-istorie-sau-1907-din-primavara-pina-in-toamna-de-ion-luca-caragiale/
19:55 assbot O bucatica de istorie, sau 1907 din primavara pina in toamna, de Ion Luca Caragiale on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TECwfC )
19:55 mircea_popescu it was memory holed at the time, and not well known since.
19:56 mircea_popescu !up cosmo
19:56 cosmo my what great service
19:57 jurov yes, amazing
19:57 assbot AMAZING COMPANY!
19:57 mircea_popescu huh ?
19:57 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50208 @ 0.00040752 = 20.4608 BTC [-] {3}
19:58 cosmo is bitshares legit
19:59 mircea_popescu !s bitshares
19:59 assbot 30 results for 'bitshares' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=bitshares
19:59 cosmo i like what they're doing but i'm not sure how their 'shares' or coins or whatever are minted/distributed
20:00 mircea_popescu you're too new here to say "i"
20:00 cosmo :( okay
20:01 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17750 @ 0.00040558 = 7.199 BTC [-]
20:03 cosmo all in on ppc
20:05 cazalla cosmo, whether bitshares, ppc, ethereum's ether etc etc, they all have one thing in common
20:05 cosmo and what's that cazalla ?
20:06 cazalla its creators and followers are super keen to sell their 2.0 creation for bitcoin
20:06 cosmo :D
20:07 cosmo bitshares seems to be doing an interesting job with pegged assets
20:07 cosmo and btc-e minting 5m ppc? something's up, i'll ride along
20:07 mircea_popescu that reads like it was written by cosmo.
20:07 mircea_popescu put some substance in the vapid verbiage oy.
20:07 cosmo at least you're not the kickban type
20:09 cazalla mircea_popescu, lol so is the contined "x is doing something interesting"
20:09 mircea_popescu myeah.
20:09 cazalla continued even.. anyway cosmo forget the rest.. get ur bitcoin on
20:11 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4650 @ 0.00040558 = 1.8859 BTC [-]
20:14 trinque asciilifeform: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=531268 << "Ugly hack was added to dieharder-3.31.1-r1." hehehe
20:14 assbot Bug 531268 – app-crypt/dieharder-3.31.1 - In file included from bits.c:7: /usr/include/unistd.h:1043:20: error: unknown type name 'intptr_t' ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEE9tE )
20:15 trinque I'm beginning to see that mathemetician-code is a thing.
20:15 asciilifeform what am i looking at
20:15 asciilifeform (other than corpse of 'diehard'. which is obvious)
20:15 trinque asciilifeform: I lobbied the maintainer to patch the thing so it'd build
20:16 asciilifeform all ~i~ know is:
20:16 asciilifeform $ ls -l /usr/portage/distfiles/dieharder-3.31.1.tgz
20:16 asciilifeform -rw-rw-r-- 1 portage portage 1149780 Oct 14 2011 /usr/portage/distfiles/dieharder-3.31.1.tgz
20:16 asciilifeform it built on by box and runs there.
20:16 trinque older glibc?
20:16 asciilifeform at some point since - i'm told - stopped
20:16 asciilifeform so culprit is to be found, and fed into woodchipper
20:16 asciilifeform all other solutions are half-measures.
20:18 trinque sounds like the build system for it is totally fucked
20:18 asciilifeform glibc belongs in woodchipper regardless
20:18 trinque one more on the pile of "needs to be rewritten by non-mathemetician"
20:18 asciilifeform it has been praying, begging for it, for years
20:18 asciilifeform fuck that. 'mathematician code' or not, it FUCKING WORKED IN 2011
20:18 trinque doesn't mean it was any good then
20:18 asciilifeform and does ~not~ today on no fault of its own
20:18 mircea_popescu "Large areas of X, including entire major cities, have been ethnically cleansed by the departure of class-B people fleeing class-A violence."
20:19 mircea_popescu fucking bullshit. the dicklets are fleeing to escape their own ~sexual~ impotence.
20:19 trinque asciilifeform: ah I don't buy that; the hairbrained thing it was doing is in that bug thread, I think
20:19 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: come to usa incognito (parachute?) sometime, i'll take you on a tour of 'what they escaped'
20:20 * asciilifeform took the 'grandest' version of this tour once, in an old armoured wagen
20:20 mircea_popescu you recall, i traveled the polace by bus ? hung out with black dudes in the back of greyhounds ?
↖
20:20 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: boston?
20:20 mircea_popescu i dun need you to show me the port quarter. can find on own
20:20 asciilifeform do find.
20:21 mircea_popescu the incident in question where they assaulted some schmuky blond kid (and the police had to come - i wouldn't have bothered) was iirc alabama
20:21 mircea_popescu maybe south carolina. thereabouts
20:21 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14200 @ 0.00040558 = 5.7592 BTC [-]
20:22 mircea_popescu they are running away from their own sexual impotence.
20:22 asciilifeform breaking everything not made of unbreakables and pissing/shitting/throwing fast 'food' garbage where one stands is 'sexual potence' ?
20:22 mircea_popescu saying "nigger" is trolling ?
20:22 mircea_popescu depends where.
20:23 mircea_popescu violence got nothing to do with it, it's a convenient scapegoat. like 13 yo girls claiming they don't want to associate with boys because they smell, rather than the obvious "my vagina's not yet developed enough"
20:24 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: didja visit the charred ruins left over from the folks for whom 'violence has nothing to do with it' burned to the ground ?
20:25 asciilifeform i can admit some explanation of 'why burned' but to say that 'had nothing to do with it' is a tall glass to drink
20:25 mircea_popescu i honestly, if i had to pick, would side with the "evil niggers" and beat the shit out of the pesky internet-addled "civilised" folk.
20:25 mircea_popescu they're abominable.
20:25 asciilifeform welcome to zimbabwe ?
20:25 asciilifeform iirc they did this
20:25 mircea_popescu nah, different demographics.
20:25 asciilifeform how? slower modems ?
20:25 mircea_popescu ironically, in zimbabwe i'd have definitely shot some mugabewites.
20:26 mircea_popescu no, the boers were the hardy folk there.
20:26 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00040558 = 2.8796 BTC [-]
20:26 mircea_popescu shoulda shot the whole lot of niggers up.
20:26 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: thing is, taking a side requires there ~being~ a side.
20:26 mircea_popescu myeah.
20:26 asciilifeform ussr tried to take 'the black side', result was comical
20:26 mircea_popescu the discussion i'm derrinding, with "A's and B's" pretends there is
20:27 mircea_popescu and i am pointing out that in that story... the author's side is abominable, and the story doesn't even credibly flow as he claims.
20:27 asciilifeform mr mold, for his part, does eventually admit that the black mobs were an instrument of somebody quite else
20:27 asciilifeform (a thesis he stole from 'the death of the american city')
20:27 mircea_popescu im fully unconvinced by all this complicated, farcical, cinquecento-ish "string of instruments" puppet theatre.
20:27 mircea_popescu i read italian, but i'm not an italian.
20:28 mircea_popescu amusingly, plenty of usians are becoming quite end-of-world italians these days
20:28 cazalla http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-06-2015#1170296 <<< perhaps this explains the recent avalanche black cock tumblr images?
20:28 assbot Logged on 21-06-2015 00:20:25; mircea_popescu: you recall, i traveled the polace by bus ? hung out with black dudes in the back of greyhounds ?
20:28 mircea_popescu cazalla was like a decade ago.
20:29 cazalla well what do they say? abscence makes the heart grow fonder? :P
20:29 mircea_popescu lol
20:30 mircea_popescu look, there is absolutely no way you will sell me on the theory that the leaving male is anything but the sexual inferior.
20:30 mircea_popescu nature doesn't change while i sleep.
20:31 mircea_popescu sure, every individual can do whatever the fuck they please for whatever random reasons, but when you're trying to discuss migration in statistical terms like he tries to discuss it - it's always a sexual matter.
20:31 cazalla reminds me of the hamstrung kid in high school who hits back at his bullies but is inevitably bullied by teachers as well for responding
20:31 mircea_popescu forget for a moment all the counting of "how many niggers ate white babies" or w/e and riddle me this :
20:31 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: it isn't a boxing match if one of the fellas in the ring has a pistol. the hordes had usg on their side
20:31 decimation so moving to the ghetto and having your children play with needles on the street is what a real man would do?
20:31 mircea_popescu how many white boys got sent upstate and ended up pimping out the female guards ?
20:32 mircea_popescu and how many black boys are doing a shrem impersonation with "of course plea bargain" etc ?
20:32 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: aaaactually quite a few
20:32 mircea_popescu decimation yes. a real man would make more children.
20:32 decimation heh yeah
20:32 decimation okay.
20:32 asciilifeform !up wiz_
20:32 asciilifeform ^ winner
20:32 mircea_popescu it is pretty by definition. what else ?
20:33 decimation I'm making children
20:33 mircea_popescu a real cuisinart would make more cake batter.
20:33 decimation but I have no reason to see them raised in a seething cesspool of crime
20:33 asciilifeform again you folks all lose and e.coli wins
20:33 mircea_popescu im not judging you in any sense. this is a sociology argument
20:33 mircea_popescu why not ?
20:33 mircea_popescu let them go into the cesspool and die.
20:33 mircea_popescu make more, you'll end up with some better ones.
20:33 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: 'die' is not worst outcome of this hypothetical
20:34 cazalla to make this many kids though one would need to engage in a little rape eh
20:34 mircea_popescu you're not their mother. your job is to get them killed.
20:34 mircea_popescu cazalla you'd be surprised how many women are ready to go, in places like teh usistan.
20:35 cazalla you're gonna wanna double wrap it with such women though? defeats the purpose of fucking them to begin with
20:35 mircea_popescu lmao
20:35 mircea_popescu well, jack off next to them and release flies from your flies jar then
20:36 asciilifeform l0l did we do the fly jar here?
20:36 mircea_popescu might not be a real man, but it is pretty awesome crab-like
20:36 asciilifeform i distinctly recall!
20:36 mircea_popescu wonky freenode today eh
20:37 asciilifeform monkey at ft meade was slow to change blown fuse.
20:37 mircea_popescu i saw the hardware kind recently. was a surprise
20:37 mircea_popescu they were russian made.
20:37 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: edisonian 'screw fuse' ?
20:38 mircea_popescu yuppers
20:38 asciilifeform or the resetable kind
20:38 mircea_popescu exact same ceramic and cheap zamac caps
20:38 asciilifeform guess what, until recently i lived in a dwelling in usa with ~just such~ fuse
20:39 asciilifeform located at the top of a stairwell to nowhere in a deep cellar, top of staircase bricked up (near the base, a ~working~ toilet in the middle of bare cement, incidentally)
20:39 asciilifeform plenty of folks here still live in such places, because just about every shop sells these fuses.
20:40 mircea_popescu odd
20:40 mircea_popescu the automatics are both better cheaper and easer to use
20:40 asciilifeform but someone would have to install them
20:40 mircea_popescu they even sell screw-in automatics
20:40 asciilifeform in those 1920s shitpits
20:40 asciilifeform the screw-ins tend to be taller than edisonians, and panel won't close
20:40 asciilifeform this is illegal per building code.
20:41 mircea_popescu bwahahaha
20:41 mircea_popescu get out.
20:41 asciilifeform mircea_popescu knew story would come to just such an observation, didn't he
20:41 mircea_popescu so they inspect ?
20:41 asciilifeform i witnessed inspections. did not know if 'fuse box closes' was on the list.
20:42 mircea_popescu you have to appreciate i come from a land where a fire drill would have been laughed out of town
20:42 mircea_popescu and moved to a similar one.
20:42 asciilifeform aha
20:42 mircea_popescu i recently discussed matters of student housing with a girl the right age from there
20:42 mircea_popescu and i explain that yes, at the time girls just lived in whichever room, usually moving around for a day or a week or whatever by their friendship or allegiances or who had bfs over
20:43 mircea_popescu romanian campus, hs and college, was always basicalyl one large slumbert party.
20:43 mircea_popescu apparently in the us this wouldn't ever work because... inspections
20:43 mircea_popescu and at that point my film broke. nigga... say wut ?! who's going to go knocking on your door ?!
20:43 mircea_popescu and she was like... whywould they knock
20:43 mircea_popescu such is the weird of socialism.
20:45 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the dorm i lived in still had relics from the time of sex-segregated floors of bldg: bathrooms tiled in the traditional sickly pink or blue signifiers
20:45 asciilifeform (in my time the separation was by left-right wings of floor)
20:45 mircea_popescu generally the buildings are segregated, yes.
20:45 asciilifeform as in whole bldg ?
20:45 mircea_popescu i suspect this is mostly because human males do not actually wish to sleep with human females.
20:45 mircea_popescu yes.
20:45 asciilifeform this went out of style in usa some 50yrs ago
20:46 asciilifeform but is sop in sov world, yes
20:46 mircea_popescu i doubt to anyone's benefit, but okay.
20:46 * asciilifeform did not cancel it himself, only watched
20:47 asciilifeform actually mircea_popescu has mega-point:
20:48 * asciilifeform lived for a spell as 'illegal agent' in the gurlz' wing, was not esp. quiet place
20:49 mircea_popescu i don't think there exists a culture in which boys past the age of sexual maturity show any preference whatever to sleep with the women, just like girls of all ages much prefer to.
20:50 mircea_popescu !up JPT
20:50 mircea_popescu !up decimati1n
20:52 mircea_popescu !up ericp4
20:54 mircea_popescu reading comments on unqualified reservations, it occurs to me the main reason this guy got to be popular was being so amply wrong about so many things.
20:54 mircea_popescu gives people something to talk about
21:00 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00040352 = 1.3316 BTC [-] {2}
21:15 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169687 << not really for this purpose. needs the cpu noise.
21:15 assbot Logged on 20-06-2015 18:16:21; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169570 << actually works great on desktops. peripheral wiring (and power line) - excellent antennae
21:16 mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169705 << pretty great
21:16 assbot Logged on 20-06-2015 18:29:13; asciilifeform: (there is an apocryphal story where feynman was invited to spoodge into william shockley's 'sperm bank of genius.' and he said 'you have the wrong address! go call my father'
21:16 asciilifeform only if cpu is the objective
21:16 asciilifeform if kbd, ethernet, etc - no
21:17 asciilifeform in other nyooz, i'm at the tail end of some very gnarly therealbitcoin surgery
21:17 mircea_popescu well sure.
21:17 asciilifeform no one should even dare to think of using what i'm about to drop in the ml, anywhere close to the front lines, without ~several~ literate folks having first read it.
21:18 asciilifeform (this goes for all patches, but most of all this one. it affects virtually every major subsystem)
21:18 mircea_popescu so then why make it ?
21:18 asciilifeform also presupposes dns-zappers part 1 through 3, without which it is meaningless
21:19 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the objective is total removal of dns such that static build becomes possible.
21:19 mircea_popescu that ends up touching everything ?!
21:20 asciilifeform see for yourself. grep your tree, case-insensitively, for 'dns' and then for 'lookup'
21:20 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.00040987 = 1.7624 BTC [+]
21:21 ben_vulpes <asciilifeform> !up ben_vulp` << 'tis the french pronounciation
21:26 ben_vulpes <mircea_popescu> yes, it is better to be smart and active than it is to be stupid and active. << balanced against that "impotent activity"
21:27 mircea_popescu the thing is, derp sitting at home and seeking supportive subreddits for his drawings is never going to figure out he's fucked in the head.
21:27 mircea_popescu meanwhile guy trying to piss on electric fence won't stay stupid long
21:27 mircea_popescu one way or another.
21:28 * ben_vulpes has lost track of all the zappings from unexpectedly electrified...trees
21:29 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15952 @ 0.00040778 = 6.5049 BTC [-] {2}
21:35 asciilifeform aaaand...
21:35 asciilifeform achtung, panzers!
21:35 asciilifeform http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-June/000100.html
21:35 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1ez99vv )
21:35 asciilifeform '(EXPERIMENTAL) Full DNS Thermonuke!'
21:36 ben_vulpes ooh
21:37 asciilifeform fully static build should now be theoretically possible.
21:38 mod6 oh nice.
21:38 * mod6 looks
21:38 asciilifeform needs testing
21:38 asciilifeform not simply 'does it fetch blocks' (it does)
21:38 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00041447 = 1.9895 BTC [+]
21:39 asciilifeform but specifically of several affected pieces such as -addnode
21:39 mircea_popescu asciilifeform if the irc falls over for whatever reason this thing is dead.
21:39 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: not meant to rely on rc
21:39 asciilifeform irc
21:39 asciilifeform but to use as we discussed
21:39 asciilifeform with config file
21:39 mircea_popescu aha.
21:40 mircea_popescu so this is actually something of purely academic interest - shoud not be run as is period.
21:40 asciilifeform irc is only in there because presently this is very easy means of discovering mostly-ungavinized nodes
21:40 mircea_popescu ya
21:40 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: actually this is the only version that could conceivably function on uclibc/pogo
21:40 mircea_popescu but only after we get a seed list
21:40 asciilifeform hence we need seeds
21:41 asciilifeform it is also one minor patch away from having all magic/hardcoded net addrs stripped away
21:41 asciilifeform and hence long-term rom-weaponizable.
21:41 mircea_popescu nb,
21:42 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes would the foundation spin up an aws and run this ?
21:43 asciilifeform ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: you now have homework. it being, to read & actually grok the sequence of 4 'dns thermonuke' patches.
↖
21:43 asciilifeform (1st 3 are rather simple)
21:44 mircea_popescu basically it takes out fNameLookup and forces a function to always return false.
21:44 asciilifeform not only.
21:44 asciilifeform also excises the cruft that was invoked when the latter was true
21:44 asciilifeform and also removes hardcoded hostname from irc.cpp
21:44 asciilifeform and removes dns disable flag from args parser
21:44 mircea_popescu CAddress addrIRC("irc.lfnet.org", 6667, true);
21:44 mircea_popescu ya
21:44 asciilifeform anyway no point in recounting the lines of the patch here
21:45 asciilifeform who wants - go, read
21:45 asciilifeform ferphuxxsake read.
21:45 asciilifeform after satisfied with this patch, therealbitcoin folks ought to try the static build again
21:45 mircea_popescu CAddress addrConnect("92.243.23.21", 6667); // irc.lfnet.org << would it be wiser if we spin up an ircd special for this purpose ?
21:45 asciilifeform and see if the libnss idiocy goes away quietly
21:46 mircea_popescu that way it can be fuzzed
21:46 ben_vulpes wouldn't be the foundation mircea_popescu so much as my personal account
21:46 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: the irc module has begged to be fuzzed long ago
21:46 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes i'd donate teh cost
21:46 asciilifeform there is some gnarly string handling in there, and i quite suspect it is exploitable
21:46 mircea_popescu asciilifeform makes two of us.
21:46 asciilifeform which is why i'd kinda like to lose the irc thing eventually
21:46 mircea_popescu fuzz it first.
21:46 ben_vulpes ooh fuzzing
21:46 asciilifeform right now it is simply a very convenient spot to find pre-gavinization nodes
21:47 mircea_popescu or fuzzers.
21:47 asciilifeform aha.
21:47 asciilifeform i must now confess that i began this a while ago, but never had time to properly pursue.
21:47 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: if you're willing to donate the cost, why not run it through the bitcoin host?
21:47 mircea_popescu rechristian it as the bitcoin foundation too ?
21:48 ben_vulpes eh, pardon?
21:48 mircea_popescu to which part ?
21:48 ben_vulpes the rechristening
21:48 ben_vulpes rechristen la serenissima's bitcoin host as the bitcoin foundation?
21:49 mircea_popescu if the bitcoin host is the go-to thing for this job, it's the bitcoin foundation.
21:49 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5550 @ 0.00041485 = 2.3024 BTC [+] {2}
21:49 asciilifeform i think mircea_popescu is trying to say that jurov ought to break open the piggy and pony up
21:49 mircea_popescu a not at all.
21:49 asciilifeform if bitcoin-host is to host this
21:50 mircea_popescu contrariwise - that why we have teh foundation is centrally so it participates in this sort of activity
21:51 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes would the foundation spin up an aws and run this ? << I can test this with my aws, sure. unless you guys are proposing something else i.e. spinning up our own ircd
21:51 ben_vulpes mod6: i think the ask is for a long-running public node.
21:51 mircea_popescu mod6 how valuable and how difficult dja think spinning an ircd compatible with lfnet would be ?
21:51 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes no, this is a temporary test thing, to see just how bad alf's latest butchery affects things
21:52 * asciilifeform hoses off chopping block
21:52 * mod6 thinks
21:52 mircea_popescu in other news, https://gist.github.com/bcoles/982695
21:52 assbot monitors irc.lfnet.org:6667#bitcoin and extracts user details ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWsC8p )
21:52 ben_vulpes aha well i'll be testing it on my own checkbook's back anyways
21:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: betcha 10,001 folks wrote some version of this
21:53 asciilifeform mircea_popescu : i certainly had one
21:53 mircea_popescu aha
21:53 mod6 well, i've run ircd hybrid many times myself. ran one for /years/. but not sure what lfnet is about really. need to look into that. but whatever it might be, it'll need to be resistant to getting packeted, unless just run for a short time for testing.
21:54 mircea_popescu you run it closed loop, with your own bitcoin-as-snipped above
21:54 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: though for some odd reason the linked script joins #bitcoin rather than #bitcoinXX (where XX in {0, 99})
21:54 mircea_popescu part of it is to see how well bitcoin holds up by being hosed from the irc side.
21:54 mircea_popescu part of it is to have a backup in case lfnet is a piece of shit / the enemy. which is pretty likely.
21:55 asciilifeform as far as i can see, there is nothing nonstandard about lfnet
21:55 asciilifeform channels #bitcoin00 through #bitcoin99 must exist or auto-create
21:55 mircea_popescu asciilifeform i think they run more or less basic ircd ya
21:55 asciilifeform that's more or less it.
21:56 asciilifeform i will repeat my observation that the irc seeder thing ~does not belong in the client~
21:56 mod6 CAddress addrConnect("92.243.23.21", 6667); // irc.lfnet.org << would it be wiser if we spin up an ircd special for this purpose ? << i think we should make this ip non-static, configurable from a file. these IPs can change at anytime/be honeynet, etc.
21:56 asciilifeform if someone wants to extract seeds from that thing in real time, and forward them to therealbitcoin - that'd be grand
21:56 mircea_popescu mod6 we've not yet put the entire that change in yet, apparently, because one per.
21:56 asciilifeform but the gnarly piece of shit irc.cpp gotta go.
21:56 asciilifeform mod6: i deliberately left that out
21:56 asciilifeform (as explained on ml)
21:57 decimation why not ircd that is linked to assbot wot?
21:57 mod6 <+mircea_popescu> mod6 we've not yet put the entire that change in yet, apparently, because one per. << makes sense. just wanted to "voice" that concern.
21:57 asciilifeform mod6: i am trying to set a kind of example for how one ought to do the patches
21:57 mod6 I like it.
21:57 asciilifeform that somewhat flies in the face of the tradition of 'all in one pot'
21:57 asciilifeform because we are not running 'chinese restaurant'
21:58 mircea_popescu decimation gossipd is not ready yet. freenode you mean ?
21:58 mod6 yeah, it's good. breaks things up a bit, easier to read.
21:58 decimation I guess I mean something like gossipd
21:58 asciilifeform gossipd is strictly necessary - if only for authenticable nodes
21:58 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00042177 = 4.8082 BTC [+]
21:58 asciilifeform (at the moment, enemy controlling routing backbone can silently diddle virtually everything)
21:59 mod6 So currently, I'm trying to get gcc patched to see if we can even build the R.I. with gcc/uclibc. Would it be prudent to finish that work before moving on to testing this DNS amputation?
21:59 mod6 I think that would be the best course of action.
21:59 asciilifeform mod6: not sure how you intend to build a dns-using thing with uclibc
21:59 mircea_popescu mod6 depends on how advanced the work is. how advanced is it ?
21:59 decimation asciilifeform: did you see those gcc bugs?
21:59 asciilifeform decimation: i saw a number of gcc bugs
22:00 decimation http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-06-2015#1160207
22:00 assbot Logged on 11-06-2015 03:34:37; decimation: https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2015-02/msg00410.html < gcc patch that maybe fixed the issue
22:01 decimation something about weak symbols being optimized out under certain conditions
22:01 mod6 I, with trinque's help, need to patch gcc 4.8.4 with gentoo using /etc/portage/patches via ebuild flag(?). If that works, then I can test that the R.I. will link properly. If that works, maybe we finally have static apple pie.
22:01 mod6 Probably need a week to sort it out -- might take rest of month.
22:01 decimation might explain mod6's weird ulibc link shit
22:02 mod6 For me, doing this first is imperitive as even if the DNS amputation works, if we can't compile it with uclibc, it doesn't matter anyway.
22:03 decimation at any rate, I'm going on a geologic tour tomorrow, I need to catch some sleep
22:03 mod6 night
22:03 asciilifeform goodnight decimation
22:03 decimation good luck with debugging gcc
22:03 mircea_popescu mod6 aite.
22:03 mod6 Does that make sense? Or am I off course here?
22:03 asciilifeform mod6 et al: what order to try things in is up to you lot
22:03 mircea_popescu this thing is not so much an emergency as something that needs to be done. if it sees the light of box this month say it's perfect.
22:04 mod6 Ok, no prob. :]
22:04 mod6 I'll put it in the list. We'll revisit all of this soon.
22:06 mircea_popescu anwyay. there's no argument that the irc thing has to go.
22:06 mod6 <+asciilifeform> mod6: not sure how you intend to build a dns-using thing with uclibc << this is a chicken/egg problem yeah. maybe we can't get it fully built because of the whole gethostbyname libnss bullshit. but if we can at least ensure that it'll link properly, that's huge. then, even if it's not fully statuc because of that, we can amputate dns with your patches and retry.
22:08 mod6 by "link properly", i mean overcoming this:
22:08 mod6 /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-gentoo-linux-uclibc/4.8.4/../../../../x86_64-gentoo-linux-uclibc/bin/ld: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-gentoo-linux-uclibc/4.8.4/../../../libc.a(jmp-unwind.os): relocation R_X86_64_PC32 against undefined symbol `__GI___pthread_cleanup_upto' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
22:09 mod6 decimation: https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2015-02/msg00410.html < gcc patch that maybe fixed the issue << i just really hope this applies cleanly, and "works".
22:09 assbot ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWuded )
22:09 mod6 if not, we might have to McGuyver our own patch.
22:09 asciilifeform incidentally,
22:10 asciilifeform why aren't we using a period gcc ?
22:10 mod6 or upgrade to a much more uplevel version of gcc to test and see if that works instead. iirc, version 5.x included a fix for this? maybe 4.9.x did too.
22:10 asciilifeform anyone tried 3.x ?
22:10 mod6 period gcc? as-in, something very recent?
22:10 asciilifeform mno
22:10 mircea_popescu as in of 2011
22:10 mircea_popescu not a bad idea
22:10 asciilifeform aha
22:10 mircea_popescu 3.7 ?
22:11 asciilifeform somebody wanna go down into cellar and fetch a 2011 (or prior) gcc tarball, hash, sign ?
22:11 mod6 ah, hmm. sure, we could give that a shot instead if you think its worth my/our time.
22:11 ben_vulpes more vendored dependencies!
22:11 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: compilator is ~the~ dependency
22:11 asciilifeform all else - small change, in comparison.
22:11 * ben_vulpes nods
22:13 mircea_popescu mod6 yeah, definitely. esp if current one giving you trouble.
22:13 mod6 So, I think I'm gonna stay the course on trying to patch 4.8.4... if we get into a giant hassle with it, we'll cut bait for the time being and try to build something like 3.7 and try that.
22:14 mircea_popescu aha.
22:14 mod6 I think trinque and I need like 2 evenings of working on it to find out how ugly its gonna be.
22:14 trinque mod6: I'll be home in roughly an hour btw
22:14 trinque I have no strong opinion regarding uclibc vs glibc, as I haven't used the former at all before this
22:15 asciilifeform mircea_popescu et al: btw, irc is still in there for another reason: how node gets own external ipv4
22:15 mod6 either have I, but glibc is full of trickery.
22:15 asciilifeform this, too, will have to find a new home
22:15 mircea_popescu config file.
22:15 mircea_popescu computers get their public names the same way women do : owner states it.
22:15 asciilifeform logical place for it
22:16 asciilifeform except gets gnarly with dynamic ip boxes
22:16 mircea_popescu bitcoin, not for the very poor.
22:16 mircea_popescu C block allocation was, last i checked, <100 a year.
22:17 asciilifeform afaik no u.s. residential isp has any place to plug these in
22:18 asciilifeform (this is minor annoyance where i live, my ip changes 1-2x/year)
22:18 trinque ^same
22:18 trinque or cumcast will sell you one for 10-15 extra per month
22:18 mod6 yeah i think my /27 used to be like ~$10/mo
22:18 mircea_popescu srsly, 10 bux.
22:19 asciilifeform 'verizon' fiber will not sell static in residential zone for any price.
22:19 * asciilifeform tried
22:19 trinque verizon are known scamz0rz
22:19 mircea_popescu i guess you're stuck servicing the things
22:19 asciilifeform also known as only supplier of reasonable net pipe in the entire region
22:19 asciilifeform (for residential zones)
22:20 mod6 yeah that /27 was through Qwest (now CenturyLink (usg isp)), now 1 static is included from cumcast "out of the box" iirc.
22:20 trinque cronjob curl and icanhazip.com lol
22:20 mircea_popescu well... you don't plan on being there long anyway, so.
22:20 * trinque starts driving
22:21 asciilifeform btw am i the only one who thinks it to be utterly retarded that the protocol requires a node to know own external ip ?
22:21 mircea_popescu i don't think so.
22:21 asciilifeform say i connect to remote machine. it ought to know where i connected from
22:21 mircea_popescu what's so retarded about it ?
22:21 asciilifeform by virtue of my having connected
22:21 mircea_popescu why ?
22:22 asciilifeform just how ip works
22:22 mircea_popescu not so, hence proxies.
22:23 asciilifeform requiring folks to have reasonable nat-traversal arrangements would not be insane, i think
22:23 mircea_popescu more insane than requiring machines to know their name.
22:24 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6866 @ 0.00042177 = 2.8959 BTC [+]
22:26 ben_vulpes myeah this gets back to my question about the necessity of the IP address in the protocol.
22:26 ben_vulpes a) how is this an actually necessary thing
22:26 ben_vulpes and
22:26 ben_vulpes no, no b.
22:27 ben_vulpes by virtue of the socket being opened, the receiving node should be able to just write to that (file descriptor, i think is the abstraction?) and let the NIC handle the package addressing - correct?
22:27 ben_vulpes packet*
22:28 ben_vulpes i might be colossally retarded this is always possible
22:29 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?_i=addrLocalHost << where used.
22:29 assbot Satoshi 0.5.3.1 identifier search: addrLocalHost ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWvMcg )
22:30 asciilifeform http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?_i=addrMe << see also.
22:30 assbot Satoshi 0.5.3.1 identifier search: addrMe ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWvPEY )
22:30 asciilifeform http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#1816 << and yes, it's retarded
22:30 assbot Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/main.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWvQZn )
22:31 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00042177 = 2.1932 BTC [+]
22:31 asciilifeform http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/net.h#0363 << see also.
22:31 assbot Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/net.h ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWvRMX )
22:32 ben_vulpes i'm rusty on this particular bit of logic
22:33 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: linked lines show where thing indeed shits out 'here is my ip' in-band
22:33 ben_vulpes myes, i see that. what i'm not 100% on is the impact to the receiving node of having garbage in that field.
22:33 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: they will answer to the garbage
22:35 ben_vulpes what do you mean "answer": attempt to talk to the provided IP instead of the connection abstraction provided by the machine?
22:36 asciilifeform iirc yes
22:37 * asciilifeform digs in the pile of shit
22:37 ben_vulpes b-b-but that's insane
22:37 ben_vulpes why not just talk on the open connection?
22:38 ben_vulpes http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/net.cpp#0395 << this implies the connection isn't dependent on the broadcasted IP at all
22:38 assbot Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/net.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1I7lemO )
22:38 ben_vulpes but whaddoino
22:40 mod6 yeah, the network stuff (having read Stevens' stuff (UNIX Network Programming Vol 1&2)) makes me cringe.
22:42 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6050 @ 0.00042177 = 2.5517 BTC [+]
22:46 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24795 @ 0.00042177 = 10.4578 BTC [+]
22:47 asciilifeform http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/net.cpp#1332 << l0l, stray turd
22:47 assbot Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/net.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWwyWz )
22:48 asciilifeform ben_vulpes: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/net.cpp#1364 << here, i think, is your boojum
22:48 assbot Satoshi 0.5.3.1/src/net.cpp ... ( http://bit.ly/1dWwDtm )
22:51 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11750 @ 0.00042177 = 4.9558 BTC [+]
22:52 hanbot cazalla http://dpaste.com/3QSDKP7
22:52 assbot dpaste: 3QSDKP7 ... ( http://bit.ly/1I7mXsu )
22:56 mircea_popescu i still don't see the problem you two see
22:56 mircea_popescu of course it talks to whatever it's told to talk to.
22:56 asciilifeform mircea_popescu: study any other classical protocol (e.g., ftp)
22:56 asciilifeform nothing like this appears therein
22:56 mircea_popescu so ?
22:56 asciilifeform i don't see any 'win' from it
22:57 asciilifeform given how it lives in protocol, cannot really be removed. but still retarded.
22:57 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13387 @ 0.00042007 = 5.6235 BTC [-]
22:58 asciilifeform once a tcp socket is opened, there is two-way communication.
22:58 asciilifeform without any intrinsic need for either side to say 'and here is my ip'
22:59 mircea_popescu so ?
22:59 asciilifeform (for socket to happen, at least one of the ends had to know the other's, yes)
22:59 mircea_popescu this sounds like an argument against assfucking. "because there's a cunt there"
23:00 asciilifeform more like earfucking
23:00 mircea_popescu i mean, what is it, just because it's different ?
23:00 asciilifeform nosefucking.
23:00 mircea_popescu so bitcoin does earfucking.
23:00 asciilifeform of own sisters.
23:01 mircea_popescu i am inclined to believe this is more likely the result of original author having nfi how tcp works rathger than having an idea about some obscure weakness he's deliberately mitigating
23:01 asciilifeform well sure.
23:01 mircea_popescu nevertheless, "it's strange" is not much of an arghument is it ?
23:01 asciilifeform hence 'retarded'
23:01 mircea_popescu no, retarded is a different degree. has to be actively dysfunctional somehow
23:01 mircea_popescu rather than just ignarous.
23:02 asciilifeform dysfunctional in that it was the glass that glued the 'showmyip' thing in there
23:02 mircea_popescu hoiw the fuck do you even say this in english
23:02 mircea_popescu apparently ignare is actually an english word
23:03 cazalla hanbot, published (good read)
23:03 asciilifeform the 'speak own ip' thing did indeed drag in a whole mess of crap that had no business being in bitcoin
23:03 mircea_popescu can you see any reason he'd suspect the ip provided by the socket ?
23:04 asciilifeform if you're at the stage of suspecting a diddled socket, time to use actual asymmetric crypto
23:04 mircea_popescu myeah
23:04 asciilifeform weird kludge adds nothing
23:04 mircea_popescu i dunno. i don't understand internets - which is common, admitting it is rare
23:04 mircea_popescu who the fuck knows what ddos.
23:05 asciilifeform '"We tried to get him mental help numerous times, but the system failed him, because he was declared 'sane'," his family has said.' << mega-l0l!
23:05 mircea_popescu innit.
23:06 mircea_popescu double ratios for tyhe hero's family
23:06 mircea_popescu they can have jam today.
23:06 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9600 @ 0.0004186 = 4.0186 BTC [-] {2}
23:08 * asciilifeform just now realized that mr. death-van ~bought~ rather than built the thing
23:09 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu: it's a subtle kind of malevolence wherein needless complexity is all of a sudden necessary because of a subtle misunderstanding of the bedrock
23:09 ben_vulpes subtle subtle subtle subtle
23:10 ben_vulpes i can't words good today.
23:10 mircea_popescu ben_vulpes yeah.
23:10 mircea_popescu still, the conservative approach in unknown terrain has yet to be beaten in the field.
23:11 asciilifeform ^ i'll sign under this with proviso that terrain is indeed ~unknown~
23:11 mircea_popescu daring acts of bravado belong to they in possession of a map.
23:14 ben_vulpes or the bravely foolish.
23:27 mod6 who knows why satoshi put that in there. i kinda find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have understood IP headers. perhaps he was trying to ensure that every connecting node was indeed a real host, not some spoofed packet magic.
↖
23:29 mircea_popescu that could not spoof the ip address ?
23:30 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15543 @ 0.00042164 = 6.5536 BTC [+] {2}
23:30 mircea_popescu not like messages are signed or anythinmg
23:30 mod6 yeah, no clue.
23:31 mod6 just grasping at straws. maybe the simplest answer is the correct one: he just didn't know.
23:34 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12300 @ 0.0004173 = 5.1328 BTC [-]
23:42 assbot [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11514 @ 0.0004146 = 4.7737 BTC [-] {2}
23:51 ben_vulpes do we even know that that part of the wire protocol is his handiwork?
23:52 ben_vulpes unrelatedly, is there a good reason why bitcoind had to be a multithreaded proggy?
↖ ↖
23:57 mod6 good point, i shouldn't speculate about weather satoshi wrote that or not without looking at MP's submission of the original bitcoin. (http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000047.html)
↖
23:59 mod6 anyway, im /exausted/. have a good night!
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