00:00 |
asciilifeform |
i can hardly imagine the circuit fooling anything but the most dull power analysis device |
00:00 |
asciilifeform |
considering that solenoid is an inductive load, and resistor is - well - resistive. |
| |
↖ |
00:00 |
asciilifeform |
(resistor - no effect on phase) |
00:00 |
asciilifeform |
think about it. |
00:00 |
decimation |
heh yeah there's gonna be 'clicks' |
00:00 |
asciilifeform |
i am inclined to believe that something is missing from the schematic. |
00:01 |
asciilifeform |
(why? ask him not me) |
00:01 |
decimation |
apparently there was a 'russian-only' version of the machine: http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/fialka/m125_3/rus.htm |
00:01 |
assbot |
M-125-3M ... ( http://bit.ly/1al8QlS ) |
00:01 |
asciilifeform |
of course there was |
00:01 |
asciilifeform |
how could there not be. |
00:04 |
asciilifeform |
http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/fialka/psu/img/300125/086/full.jpg << mega-l0l. this, internally, and geometrically - is almost identical to my (u.s.-made) ferroresonant stabilizator. |
00:04 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1al9C2c ) |
00:05 |
decimation |
yeah, bigass 'autotransformer' |
00:06 |
asciilifeform |
http://imgur.com/zrmHTMR,OzgNDNH#0 << that one |
00:06 |
assbot |
Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1al9Y8V ) |
00:06 |
asciilifeform |
not same as autotransformer |
00:06 |
asciilifeform |
relies purely on energy in magnetic field for 'inertia' |
00:08 |
decimation |
heh even the russian version is a slightly more advanced 'enigma' machine http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/fialka/m125_3/index.htm |
00:08 |
assbot |
M-125-3 ... ( http://bit.ly/1alarYU ) |
00:08 |
asciilifeform |
all the rotor machines were much alike. |
00:09 |
asciilifeform |
interestingly, vernam (which we today call 'one time pad') coexisted with all of them |
00:09 |
asciilifeform |
and to the extent folks used it - correctly - their crypto worked. |
00:09 |
asciilifeform |
but 'omg11111111111111!1!!11!!11 not convenient!!' |
| |
↖ |
00:09 |
decimation |
aye, actual humans must handle keys |
00:10 |
nubbins` |
asciilifeform do you have libssl.so, libcrypto.so on your system? (/usr/lib64, perhaps?) |
00:10 |
asciilifeform |
to the extent they did not use it (and swiss 'cryptoag' etc marketed rotors until late '80s!! and possibly now) - usg and its merry men had their fun with the payload. |
00:11 |
asciilifeform |
nubbins`: sure |
00:11 |
nubbins` |
are they symlinked to .so.1.0.0 like mine are? |
00:11 |
asciilifeform |
nubbins`: libssl is |
00:12 |
nubbins` |
and if you: $ openssl version |
00:12 |
asciilifeform |
1.01j |
00:12 |
asciilifeform |
1.0.1j |
00:12 |
asciilifeform |
why ? |
00:12 |
asciilifeform |
i mean, it didn't get pulled in to the static build |
00:12 |
asciilifeform |
just as it was meant -not- to |
00:12 |
asciilifeform |
that part works. |
00:13 |
nubbins` |
hm k |
00:13 |
asciilifeform |
the attempted ssl was the one included with auto.sh (release) |
00:13 |
asciilifeform |
it - did not build. |
00:13 |
asciilifeform |
(see log) |
00:13 |
* |
nubbins` sees log |
00:13 |
nubbins` |
oh ffs |
00:13 |
* |
nubbins` sees log1 |
00:17 |
asciilifeform |
decimation: http://www.dansdata.com/gz039.htm << re: ferroresonators |
00:17 |
assbot |
Power struggle ... ( http://bit.ly/1CzuL1B ) |
00:17 |
asciilifeform |
http://www.dansdata.com/images/powerconditioner/lidoff1024.jpg << pretty simple. |
00:17 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1CzuM5M ) |
00:19 |
decimation |
yeah it's kinda the magnetic equivalent of a bigass flywheel |
00:20 |
asciilifeform |
aha. |
00:20 |
asciilifeform |
more of gigantic pendulum |
00:20 |
asciilifeform |
if we want an exact analogy |
00:20 |
asciilifeform |
but yes. |
00:22 |
asciilifeform |
http://www.dansdata.com/gz083.htm << unrelated but interesting re: ancient 'copy protection' |
00:22 |
assbot |
Meet the new DRM, same as the old DRM ... ( http://bit.ly/1CzvMa6 ) |
00:22 |
asciilifeform |
' Then, after the tape had been professionally rewound, you could rent it again, if you liked.' |
00:25 |
decimation |
heh |
00:25 |
decimation |
that actually sounds pretty effective, assuming the listener didn't have a recorder |
00:28 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.00025344 = 5.2209 BTC [-] |
00:28 |
decimation |
la wik' seems to imply that the "system 3" punch card was the most densely packed card in common use |
00:28 |
decimation |
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/System_3_punch_card.jpg |
00:28 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1Czx0lA ) |
00:28 |
decimation |
^could hold 64 byte |
00:29 |
decimation |
you would still need many of those cards to hold a standard gpg key |
00:29 |
asciilifeform |
evidently not the one featured in the rhyme; |
00:30 |
asciilifeform |
'He died at the console, / Of hunger and thirst. / Next day he was buried, Face down, nine-edge first. / And the last bug in sight, / An ant passing by, / Saluted his tombstone, / And whispered, Nice try.' |
00:30 |
decimation |
heh |
00:32 |
decimation |
one of the reasons why the "PC" was such a success (as in the commodore, etc) was because many universities had taken to putting their computers behind a locked wall |
00:32 |
decimation |
with strict controls on access |
00:33 |
decimation |
obviously 'actual people' were not exactly thrilled with the idea of being treated like criminals while calculating |
00:34 |
asciilifeform |
instrument which costs $maxint - of course locked. |
00:34 |
decimation |
so there was a hunger to 'own' said machine |
00:34 |
asciilifeform |
last i checked, i can't waltz in to my local uni and use their mass spectrometer or nmr |
00:34 |
asciilifeform |
(i asked) |
00:34 |
decimation |
yeah, similar idea I guess |
00:34 |
decimation |
but it was made worse because apparently the hippies of the time took to 'attacking' the machines |
00:35 |
decimation |
because they were seen as a symbol of 'the man' |
00:35 |
asciilifeform |
decimation: this was not only for computer. |
00:36 |
asciilifeform |
decimation: my first paying job was at nih. and found it odd that only select few had the clearance to see where the live animals were |
00:36 |
asciilifeform |
i was told they were under 24/7 heavily armed guard |
00:36 |
asciilifeform |
underground, behind a tunnel with multiple doors |
00:36 |
asciilifeform |
but that this had not always been so, and old-timers remembered when you could keep the cages in the lab |
00:36 |
asciilifeform |
*i found it odd |
00:37 |
decimation |
yeah because the hippies want to 'set free' |
00:39 |
decimation |
socialist dumbfuckery is like pollution, it ruins everything |
00:40 |
asciilifeform |
complicated. |
00:40 |
asciilifeform |
what was the alternative for these folks? |
00:40 |
asciilifeform |
i mean, it sounds odd, to ask |
00:40 |
decimation |
for who, the 'pro-animal' hippie? |
00:41 |
asciilifeform |
but what -could- they have been doing, that was equally entertaining as setting rabid chimps free ? |
00:41 |
decimation |
ah. indeed. |
00:41 |
asciilifeform |
it was yet another generation asked to eat stale doughnuts |
00:41 |
asciilifeform |
to borrow mr mold's expression |
00:41 |
asciilifeform |
so they went apeshit when offered chances. |
00:41 |
asciilifeform |
because still had balls. |
00:42 |
asciilifeform |
now, for the man who likes physics, maths, etc - it was golden age. |
00:42 |
asciilifeform |
for instance! |
00:43 |
asciilifeform |
contrary to popular image of rms, he was - at the time - the very example of a 'straight lace square' |
00:43 |
asciilifeform |
playing with the 'big iron' at usg expense. |
00:43 |
asciilifeform |
clean-shaven, even, iirc. |
00:43 |
decimation |
yeah, the 60's were definitely a golden age of the hard sciences in the us |
00:44 |
decimation |
many low-hanging fruits were picked |
00:44 |
asciilifeform |
it is a mistake, to call them low hanging |
00:44 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 213700 @ 0.00024903 = 53.2177 BTC [-] {4} |
00:44 |
asciilifeform |
they could be put on the tree today and would stay unpicked. |
| |
↖ |
00:44 |
decimation |
perhaps. it's hard not to see things taught to undergrads as 'not obvious' |
00:44 |
decimation |
but it's true that they weren't |
00:56 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00025344 = 4.8914 BTC [+] |
00:57 |
decimation |
;;ticker |
00:57 |
gribble |
Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 246.68, Best ask: 246.75, Bid-ask spread: 0.07000, Last trade: 246.75, 24 hour volume: 22636.38523189, 24 hour low: 239.21, 24 hour high: 248.71, 24 hour vwap: None |
| |
~ 36 minutes ~ |
01:33 |
BingoBoingo |
;;bc,stats |
01:33 |
gribble |
Current Blocks: 350334 | Current Difficulty: 4.671754964470642E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 350783 | Next Difficulty In: 449 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 3 hours, 21 minutes, and 23 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 49676319200.2 | Estimated Percent Change: 6.33331 |
01:38 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 226900 @ 0.00026234 = 59.5249 BTC [+] {4} |
01:47 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 194848 @ 0.00026405 = 51.4496 BTC [+] |
01:51 |
BingoBoingo |
!up bagehot |
01:54 |
bagehot |
Hey, thanks for the up |
02:03 |
bagehot |
Why do folks here consider bitcoins tradeable for other goods? |
02:03 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 261100 @ 0.00025801 = 67.3664 BTC [-] {2} |
| |
~ 25 minutes ~ |
02:29 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 192161 @ 0.00026396 = 50.7228 BTC [+] {3} |
02:36 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87059 @ 0.00025743 = 22.4116 BTC [-] |
02:37 |
|
Bet placed: 3.84713728 BTC for No on "Bitcoin above MtGox $266 high 2 years on" http://bitbet.us/bet/1126/ Odds: 26(Y):74(N) by coin, 56(Y):44(N) by weight. Total bet: 13.22859233 BTC. Current weight: 16,339. |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
02:54 |
BingoBoingo |
;;later tell bagehot Do you know any better money? |
02:54 |
gribble |
The operation succeeded. |
02:56 |
BingoBoingo |
Axe time is starting awfully slow, I was expecting more... fluids |
03:00 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85750 @ 0.0002513 = 21.549 BTC [-] |
03:11 |
BingoBoingo |
!up hktud0 |
03:14 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109200 @ 0.0002513 = 27.442 BTC [-] |
03:18 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65950 @ 0.0002513 = 16.5732 BTC [-] |
03:23 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67443 @ 0.00025318 = 17.0752 BTC [+] |
03:33 |
BingoBoingo |
;;ticker |
03:33 |
gribble |
Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 245.89, Best ask: 245.99, Bid-ask spread: 0.10000, Last trade: 245.78, 24 hour volume: 22946.51481821, 24 hour low: 239.21, 24 hour high: 248.71, 24 hour vwap: None |
03:34 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 246950 @ 0.00024837 = 61.335 BTC [-] {4} |
03:34 |
mircea_popescu |
http://trilema.com/2015/the-definitive-sovereign/ < updated, because i can't sleep now, because of this stroke of brilliance. |
03:34 |
assbot |
The definitive sovereign pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6L2Qg ) |
03:34 |
mircea_popescu |
really the similarities are many and varied. |
03:37 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083737 < nsa. |
03:37 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 03:26:39; decimation: asciilifeform: one wonders what the openssl authors use as a 'baseline os' |
03:37 |
mircea_popescu |
it's easy when you're on stupid team. |
03:37 |
mircea_popescu |
your shit doesn't have to actually work. |
03:39 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083756 << yeah your hole was, to my grief, readily reproduced. |
03:39 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 03:29:10; asciilifeform: ok so nubbins` has what i have. |
03:39 |
mircea_popescu |
once i was done screaming so people could ask questions. |
03:40 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083766 << this option is not unlike proving you didn't fuck a goat by proving you impregnated it. |
03:40 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 03:34:34; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu:fork the chain or maintain the historical copy. << third option: make new apparatus, prove idempotence. |
03:40 |
mircea_popescu |
in that "proof of idempotence" has generally been orders of magnitude more successful at proving the proving party has no idea what proving means, |
03:40 |
mircea_popescu |
rather than the intended result. |
03:42 |
mircea_popescu |
also speaking of " dns providers" : http://0pointer.de/lennart/projects/nss-mdns/ |
03:42 |
assbot |
nss-mdns 0.10 ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6LQos ) |
03:42 |
mircea_popescu |
"Please note that due to security reasons from this release on the minimal mDNS stack included in nss-mdns (dubbed "legacy") is no longer built by default. Thus, nss-mdns will not work unless Avahi is running!" |
03:45 |
mircea_popescu |
also https://www.openhub.net/accounts/mezcalero if anyone's actually that curious. |
03:45 |
assbot |
Lennart Poettering : Lennart Poettering - Open Hub ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6M6nd ) |
03:49 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform dude how did you dig up the fialka thing. |
| |
~ 18 minutes ~ |
04:08 |
|
Bet placed: 2.10372615 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $150 before July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1133/ Odds: 20(Y):80(N) by coin, 21(Y):79(N) by weight. Total bet: 6.08572615 BTC. Current weight: 95,148. |
04:12 |
|
Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) to drop under $35 before June " http://bitbet.us/bet/1129/ Odds: 10(Y):90(N) by coin, 12(Y):88(N) by weight. Total bet: 12.8656096 BTC. Current weight: 74,132. |
04:21 |
mircea_popescu |
http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/fialka/psu/img/300125/019/full.jpg gotta love that crazy shit. |
04:21 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1GOkKAG ) |
04:28 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform and speaking of it : http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/fialka/psu/img/Tempest.png doesn't look like the exceptionally advanced thing the article promised. seems to me the solenoid-driven switching would create so much echo as to make it readily measurable. |
04:28 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1GOlIwW ) |
04:28 |
mircea_popescu |
i suppose "works according to what we know how to do" is the one standard of tradecraft. |
04:29 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083796 << exactly. |
04:29 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 03:51:47; asciilifeform: i can see this being given to unreliable warsaw pact nations to -amplify- their tempest emanations |
04:30 |
BingoBoingo |
!up asteric |
04:30 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083827 i guess i should just read logs lol |
04:30 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 04:00:21; asciilifeform: considering that solenoid is an inductive load, and resistor is - well - resistive. |
04:31 |
mircea_popescu |
why the fuck not put in there... some "carefully chosen" solenoids of the right fucking charge. |
04:31 |
mircea_popescu |
how hard is it to reproduce a coil of wire with... another coil of wire! |
04:32 |
* |
BingoBoingo did not expect axe time to offer this much lead to work the whetstone before sword time |
04:33 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083849 << dude what the fuck is so very convenient about all the rotor bs i dunno. |
04:33 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 04:09:37; asciilifeform: but 'omg11111111111111!1!!11!!11 not convenient!!' |
04:47 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78350 @ 0.00024829 = 19.4535 BTC [-] |
04:56 |
mircea_popescu |
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060558/ << hory sheit!! |
04:56 |
assbot |
Jesse James Meets Frankenstein's Daughter (1966) - IMDb ... ( http://bit.ly/1GOpu9w ) |
04:56 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 233444 @ 0.00024885 = 58.0925 BTC [+] {2} |
05:05 |
mircea_popescu |
"To view a downloaded movie, you double-click it. And then you're watching it. Stick a recent commercial DVD into your player, though, and you'll probably have to sit through lengthy, un-skippable warnings about how dastardly is the piracy in which you did not just engage." |
05:06 |
mircea_popescu |
"if kids continue to not show up for class, the class will continue to get detention!" |
05:18 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 127646 @ 0.00025424 = 32.4527 BTC [+] {2} |
05:18 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083930 << this seems exceedingly likely, especially with stuff like the "oh open source is more secure because million eyes" million examples fresh in memory. |
05:18 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 04:44:24; asciilifeform: they could be put on the tree today and would stay unpicked. |
05:19 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50198 @ 0.00025644 = 12.8728 BTC [+] |
05:20 |
mircea_popescu |
BingoBoingo you not getting enough fluid ? :D |
05:32 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 204700 @ 0.00024694 = 50.5486 BTC [-] {2} |
05:39 |
|
Bet placed: 6.10372615 BTC for No on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) to drop under $35 before June " http://bitbet.us/bet/1129/ Odds: 7(Y):93(N) by coin, 8(Y):92(N) by weight. Total bet: 18.96933575 BTC. Current weight: 74,045. |
05:51 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47665 @ 0.00025118 = 11.9725 BTC [+] |
06:05 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 180450 @ 0.00024481 = 44.176 BTC [-] {2} |
06:10 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 189800 @ 0.00024445 = 46.3966 BTC [-] {2} |
06:18 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54150 @ 0.00025118 = 13.6014 BTC [+] |
06:29 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72887 @ 0.00025519 = 18.6 BTC [+] {2} |
06:35 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 250947 @ 0.00024327 = 61.0479 BTC [-] {4} |
06:36 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46753 @ 0.00024238 = 11.332 BTC [-] |
| |
~ 40 minutes ~ |
07:16 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46414 @ 0.00024386 = 11.3185 BTC [+] |
07:18 |
nubbins` |
morn |
07:23 |
Apocalyptic |
!up neverending |
07:26 |
nubbins` |
today's auction-end day :o |
07:29 |
nubbins` |
http://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahjeong/2015/04/01/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-unsealed-silk-road-docket/ |
07:29 |
assbot |
What You Need to Know About the Unsealed Silk Road Docket - Forbes ... ( http://bit.ly/1CAOSN1 ) |
07:29 |
nubbins` |
In April 2014, BitStamp representatives messaged Force, asking him why he was accessing his account through Tor. He responded through the support ticket: “I utilize TOR for privacy. Don’t particularly want NSA looking over my shoulder :)” |
07:29 |
nubbins` |
BitStamp management found this message to be, well, incredibly weird. |
07:29 |
nubbins` |
yep. INCREDIBLY WEIRD, this. a guy using tor. |
07:38 |
nubbins` |
!up menahem |
07:39 |
nubbins` |
so i get woken up 3:30am last night by the guy next door POUNDING on the wall |
07:39 |
nubbins` |
after a few minutes of this, my doorbell rings, so i go grab a chunk of wood to cave the guy's face in with |
07:39 |
nubbins` |
and it's my piece of shit roommate who lost his keys |
07:40 |
nubbins` |
because, y'know, if you lost your keys three days ago, you should come home drunk to a locked house at 3:30am |
07:40 |
nubbins` |
with no plan |
07:42 |
Adlai |
sounds like his plan was "pick a time when nubbins`'s probability density is most concentrated within the home" |
07:43 |
nubbins` |
or, since i am generally always home, pick a time when any normal person is precisely in the middle of a night's rest |
07:43 |
* |
nubbins` can't wait to reduce the head count in here |
07:50 |
nubbins` |
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/dead-dolphin-found-on-roadside-in-bay-roberts-1.3018170 |
07:50 |
assbot |
Dead dolphin found on roadside in Bay Roberts - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1xD1Ivh ) |
07:52 |
nubbins` |
obligatory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au1AN_MC6Rg |
07:52 |
assbot |
Dolphin found on public beach in Newfoundland - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1xD2eco ) |
07:52 |
Adlai |
breaking news: not all interspecies interactions are beneficial for both parties, or even either! |
08:01 |
nubbins` |
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/nypd-detective-caught-on-video-berating-uber-driver-reassigned-1.3018889 |
08:01 |
assbot |
NYPD detective caught on video berating Uber driver reassigned - World - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1xD4BMt ) |
08:02 |
nubbins` |
hahaha man i hate cops. |
08:04 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130550 @ 0.00024349 = 31.7876 BTC [-] |
08:05 |
nubbins` |
mircea_popescu i guess we're technically two-and-a-half-dogland: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/labradoodle-marketing-fetches-2-500-puppy-price-1.3018419 |
08:05 |
assbot |
Labradoodle marketing fetches $2,500 puppy price - Calgary - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1xD5BAe ) |
| |
~ 17 minutes ~ |
08:22 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 197550 @ 0.00024212 = 47.8308 BTC [-] {3} |
08:29 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82450 @ 0.00024379 = 20.1005 BTC [+] {2} |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
08:45 |
funkenstein_ |
mornin' nubbins |
08:46 |
funkenstein_ |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BWGzrhKKi0 |
08:46 |
assbot |
Immortal Technique - Live From New York Footage - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1BTqPGH ) |
08:53 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 265900 @ 0.00024162 = 64.2468 BTC [-] {3} |
08:54 |
funkenstein_ |
!up diana_coman |
08:59 |
danielpbarron |
height=309336 vs height=219658 |
09:02 |
funkenstein_ |
danielpbarron, what are the height numbers? |
09:02 |
funkenstein_ |
!up smidge |
09:16 |
mike_c |
funkenstein_: blockchain sync progress on a SSD vs. 5400 rpm platters. |
09:17 |
funkenstein_ |
mike_c, thank you |
| |
~ 17 minutes ~ |
09:34 |
lobbes |
I posted obamaz magic decree to my facebook. Quite expectedly, no one cares. |
| |
↖ |
09:34 |
lobbes |
I feel the cynicism growing inside me |
| |
~ 20 minutes ~ |
09:55 |
Chillum |
obama is magical? I knew it1 |
09:55 |
Chillum |
! |
09:55 |
funkenstein_ |
muggle controlled by death eaters, news at 11 |
09:58 |
punkman |
http://www.latimes.com/la-oe-ehrenstein19mar19-story.html |
09:58 |
assbot |
Obama the 'Magic Negro' - LA Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1P2pjel ) |
10:00 |
nubbins` |
<+lobbes> I posted obamaz magic decree to my facebook. Quite expectedly, no one cares. <<< no one, including you |
10:00 |
Chillum |
some sociologists are magical twits |
10:00 |
nubbins` |
golly gee, you shared a whole link on bookface? |
10:00 |
nubbins` |
YOU ANARCHIST |
10:01 |
lobbes |
yes yes, I deserve that |
10:01 |
nubbins` |
put another way: maybe all your bookface friends care just as much as you do |
10:01 |
nubbins` |
i.e. they care enough to share a link |
10:02 |
nubbins` |
but you did it first, so "*shrug* w/e" |
10:02 |
lobbes |
hmm I see what you mean |
10:02 |
nubbins` |
caring != sharing. |
10:02 |
lobbes |
no real action |
10:02 |
nubbins` |
not even fake action. |
10:02 |
lobbes |
just 'hey, "be aware"' |
10:02 |
nubbins` |
the slightest twitch of a finger. |
10:02 |
nubbins` |
yes, and awareness has done wonders so far 8) |
10:03 |
lobbes |
so are the only real options: 1) gtfo 2) wait for the eventual hanging? |
10:04 |
nubbins` |
no, but i'll leave the other options for you to figure out |
10:04 |
nubbins` |
some things you can't be shown, neh? |
10:05 |
lobbes |
I'd like to believe if I just focus on myself and amass enough wealth I can weasel my way through time |
| |
↖ |
10:05 |
lobbes |
some things you can't be shown, neh? << agreed. Trial by fire, eh? |
10:06 |
nubbins` |
well, i'd like to believe this is all an illusion and i'll eventually wake up, my 16-year-old self, sweating through the mattress in a fever dream |
10:06 |
nubbins` |
wait, that would be horrible |
10:15 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37376 @ 0.0002408 = 9.0001 BTC [-] |
10:25 |
nubbins` |
asciilifeform mod6 ben_vulpes and others: on a side note, auto.sh doesn't put the openssl headers in /ourlibs/ |
10:27 |
nubbins` |
build failed on gentoo using gcc-4.4.7: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=qhb7ZT3x |
10:27 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1P2udYC ) |
10:27 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104314 @ 0.0002408 = 25.1188 BTC [-] |
10:32 |
nubbins` |
if i manually move the headers over, back to uint32_t errors: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=taiiWaYc |
10:32 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1P2v4bK ) |
10:33 |
nubbins` |
with both of alf's patches applied: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=7qRa7CnL |
10:33 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1P2vijl ) |
10:34 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139750 @ 0.00024073 = 33.642 BTC [-] {3} |
10:37 |
nubbins` |
with "-std=c++03" from portatronic patch removed: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=50XwKjsy (precisely the same as before patching) |
10:37 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1P2vXkG ) |
10:43 |
funkenstein_ |
power rangers added more int types later like arith_uint256 |
10:44 |
funkenstein_ |
but 10.0.1 release no longer has that class |
10:44 |
nubbins` |
after renaming all uint32_t to boost::uint32_t: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=D7XGyGna |
10:44 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1IUiEhQ ) |
10:44 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 180800 @ 0.00024325 = 43.9796 BTC [+] {3} |
10:44 |
nubbins` |
after renaming all int32_t to boost::int32_t: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=A2M3kkZL |
10:44 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1IUiOpD ) |
10:45 |
nubbins` |
"canot find -lssl, -lcrypto" |
10:45 |
funkenstein_ |
*0.10.1 |
10:45 |
nubbins` |
*cannot |
10:47 |
funkenstein_ |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083447 <-- looks like you got here |
10:47 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 01:18:00; decimation: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2725255/create-statically-linked-binary-that-uses-getaddrinfo <glibc uses libnss to support a number of different providers for address resolution services. Unfortunately, you cannot statically link libnss, as exactly what providers it loads depends on the local system's configuration. |
10:47 |
mats |
http://awards.acm.org/infosys/ |
10:47 |
assbot |
ACM - Infosys Foundation Award in the Computing Sciences - ACM Award ... ( http://bit.ly/1IUjPhm ) |
10:53 |
nubbins` |
!s libnss |
10:53 |
assbot |
0 results for 'libnss' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=libnss |
10:53 |
nubbins` |
!s nss |
10:53 |
assbot |
5 results for 'nss' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=nss |
10:54 |
nubbins` |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083738 |
10:54 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 03:26:58; nubbins`: "glibc uses libnss to support a number of different providers for address resolution services. Unfortunately, you cannot statically link libnss, as exactly what providers it loads depends on the local system's configuration." |
| |
↖ |
10:54 |
nubbins` |
:D |
10:54 |
nubbins` |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083741 |
10:54 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 03:27:23; decimation: nubbins`: no that's a different issue, not critical |
10:54 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 124700 @ 0.0002459 = 30.6637 BTC [+] |
10:54 |
mats |
http://syssec.rub.de/media/emma/veroeffentlichungen/2015/03/28/COOP-Oakland15.pdf |
10:54 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1P2zcIM ) |
10:54 |
mod6 |
yeah, what we need now is a build environment as discussed yesterday. or we really can't move forward. |
10:54 |
nubbins` |
i know qemu was bandied about in the past |
10:55 |
nubbins` |
!qemu |
10:55 |
nubbins` |
er. |
10:55 |
nubbins` |
!s qemu |
10:55 |
assbot |
18 results for 'qemu' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=qemu |
10:56 |
nubbins` |
^ read |
10:56 |
mod6 |
are you talking to me? |
10:57 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101750 @ 0.00024853 = 25.2879 BTC [+] {3} |
10:57 |
mod6 |
i thought everyone wanted to create a common gentoo configuration. |
10:58 |
mod6 |
anyway, that's the deal. we need something that we can work with; one supported environment, blessed by alf. |
10:58 |
funkenstein_ |
mats, can you summarize the COOP scoop? |
10:58 |
asciilifeform |
'Boneh, in joint work with Matt Franklin, constructed a novel pairing-based method for identity-based encryption (IBE), whereby a user's public identity, such as an email address, can function as the user's public key. Since then, Boneh's contributions, together with those of others, have shown the power and versatility of pairings, which are now used as a mainstream tool in cryptography. The transfer of pairings from theory t |
| |
↖ ↖ ↖ |
10:58 |
asciilifeform |
o practice has been rapid. Organizations now using pairings include healthcare, financial, and insurance institutions. Over a billion IBE-encrypted emails are sent each year.' << ahahahahahaha. |
10:58 |
asciilifeform |
http://awards.acm.org/award_winners/boneh_4125431.cfm ^ from mats's link |
10:58 |
assbot |
Dan Boneh - Award Winner ... ( http://bit.ly/1P2A14C ) |
10:59 |
asciilifeform |
'Identity-based encryption is a type of public-key encryption in which any arbitrary string (such as a users email address) can be used as a public key, enabling data to be protected without the need for long, randomly generated keys or certificates. Today, there are numerous standards for IBE based on Bonehs work, including IEEE P1363.3 and several IETF RFCs.' << from the press release. |
| |
↖ |
10:59 |
asciilifeform |
what a crock of shit! |
| |
↖ |
10:59 |
asciilifeform |
and it has the full blessing of american academia, yes. |
11:00 |
asciilifeform |
'Dan Boneh is professor of Computer Science and Electrical Engineering at Stanford University, and leads the applied cryptography group there. He has written extensively on cryptography and computer security, publishing more than 150 refereed conference and peer-reviewed journal papers. Boneh served as an editor of ACM Transactions on Internet Technology (TOIT), Journal of the ACM (JACM), and Journal of Cryptology. He has serv |
11:00 |
asciilifeform |
ed as program chair or general chair for several academic conferences and as member of more than 30 conference program committees.' |
11:01 |
asciilifeform |
^ now we know what EACH AND EVERY ONE of those institutions, the papers this cheap clown refereed, the conferences he chaired - are worth. |
| |
↖ |
11:01 |
* |
danielpbarron already knew they weren't worth much |
11:01 |
asciilifeform |
no but this is how it works. |
11:01 |
funkenstein_ |
smells like cryptography as a service |
11:02 |
asciilifeform |
this is how usg killed -actual- academic crypto |
11:02 |
asciilifeform |
any wonder they banned shamir from usa? |
11:02 |
asciilifeform |
!s shamir |
11:02 |
assbot |
25 results for 'shamir' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=shamir |
11:02 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116052 @ 0.00025208 = 29.2544 BTC [+] {2} |
11:03 |
nubbins` |
uh |
11:03 |
nubbins` |
you don't generate a public key from an email address, you generate it from a private key |
11:03 |
nubbins` |
what's the private key here? |
11:03 |
nubbins` |
the fucking email address? |
11:04 |
funkenstein_ |
nubbins i can hold the private key for you don't worry |
11:04 |
nubbins` |
k thx |
11:04 |
nubbins` |
i'll pm my email password |
11:04 |
nubbins` |
you just get it set up |
11:04 |
funkenstein_ |
lol |
11:04 |
asciilifeform |
<mircea_popescu> in that "proof of idempotence" has generally been orders of magnitude more successful at proving the proving party has no idea what proving means << didn't say it would be easy. or that the existing 'state of the art' is any kind of guide. |
11:05 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: ... dude what the fuck is so very convenient about all the rotor bs i dunno << short keys |
11:05 |
nubbins` |
ugh i need lunch |
11:06 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: does that remind you of arguments in favour of any modern cryptosystem? how about ecdsa, aha |
11:06 |
asciilifeform |
What You Need to Know About the Unsealed Silk Road Docket << i do so hate these 'what you need to know' titles. implication is that no serious person would need to know anything else |
| |
↖ |
11:07 |
asciilifeform |
and -of course- it proclaims 'this malefactor was caught thanks to our glorious know-your-customer crapolade!' |
11:09 |
asciilifeform |
<nubbins`> because, y'know, if you lost your keys three days ago, you should come home drunk to a locked house at 3:30am ..with no plan << http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-04-2015#1083000 >> what do you suppose i was talking about. |
11:09 |
assbot |
Logged on 01-04-2015 22:18:14; ascii_field: nubbins`: but even something like living in a dwelling without the company of strangers is a titanically expensive luxury in most of the world |
11:09 |
nubbins` |
HAHAHA |
11:09 |
nubbins` |
hey, pothing's nerfect. |
11:09 |
nubbins` |
anyway i gave said idiot the boot |
11:10 |
nubbins` |
he's got til the 30th |
11:10 |
asciilifeform |
<nubbins`> with "-std=c++03" from portatronic patch removed << might not actually make a difference |
11:11 |
asciilifeform |
<nubbins`> "canot find -lssl, -lcrypto" << note! it finds the system's headers, like a moron, and builds with them, then notices no local ssl was built (it wasn't) |
11:12 |
asciilifeform |
nubbins`: he's got til the 30th << so you didn't need the money? or will replace him with a fresh idiot ? |
11:12 |
nubbins` |
i think the openssl build has some problems |
11:12 |
nubbins` |
asciilifeform his bedroom is being turned into a paper-printing studio |
11:12 |
asciilifeform |
neato. |
11:12 |
nubbins` |
pink eye will make up the rent shortfall |
11:12 |
nubbins` |
yeah :D |
11:13 |
asciilifeform |
'Using 'getaddrinfo' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking' << wtf are we even using getaddrinfo for. |
11:15 |
asciilifeform |
objdump -t src/obj/nogui/*.o | grep getaddrinfo |
11:15 |
asciilifeform |
0000000000000000 *UND* 0000000000000000 getaddrinfo |
11:15 |
asciilifeform |
it's in there all right |
11:15 |
asciilifeform |
motherfuckers. |
11:15 |
nubbins` |
incidentally i tried a non-static build of openssl, auto.sh barfs w/ same error |
11:16 |
asciilifeform |
nubbins`: which error |
11:16 |
nubbins` |
cannot find -lssl, -lcrypto |
11:16 |
asciilifeform |
because it was given the local ssl as a search path, yes |
11:16 |
asciilifeform |
of course couldn't find. |
11:16 |
asciilifeform |
no surprise here |
11:17 |
asciilifeform |
ahahahaha guess what |
11:17 |
asciilifeform |
my dns seed snip patch never made it in the realease, did it |
| |
↖ |
11:17 |
nubbins` |
nope |
11:17 |
asciilifeform |
quite possibly this is where the getaddrinfo crap is from! |
11:17 |
nubbins` |
oh ha is that what's using it! |
11:21 |
asciilifeform |
BingoBoingo: http://cryptome.org/2015/04/ulbricht-227-228.pdf << the unsealed material |
11:21 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1P2EjZM ) |
11:22 |
asciilifeform |
i just can't get over the lulziness of usg proclaiming that stealing/extorting from an outlaw constitutes 'theft of government property' |
11:24 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 138238 @ 0.0002428 = 33.5642 BTC [-] {2} |
11:25 |
asciilifeform |
mats: http://syssec.rub.de/media/emma/veroeffentlichungen/2015/03/28/COOP-Oakland15.pdf << aha. recommended reading for all, quite pertinent. |
11:25 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1BRwE6s ) |
11:27 |
nubbins` |
wow, the latest DDOS attack against the forum seems to have reinstated the ability to change/add avatars |
| |
↖ |
11:27 |
nubbins` |
;p |
11:28 |
mats |
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-32157342 |
11:28 |
assbot |
Kenya Garissa students taken hostage by al-Shabab - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1P2FGYh ) |
11:29 |
mats |
funkenstein_: read the extract |
11:32 |
* |
nubbins` takes this opportunity to make his avatar look meaner |
11:33 |
mats |
http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2015/04/truecrypt-report.html |
11:33 |
assbot |
A Few Thoughts on Cryptographic Engineering: Truecrypt report ... ( http://bit.ly/1P2GLiM ) |
11:34 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 211200 @ 0.00024533 = 51.8137 BTC [+] {2} |
11:36 |
danielpbarron |
A problem in Truecrypt is that in some extremely rare circumstances, the Crypto API can fail to properly initialize. When this happens, Truecrypt should barf and catch fire. Instead it silently accepts this failure and continues to generate keys. |
11:37 |
nubbins` |
ha |
11:37 |
mats |
For example: the most significant issue in the Truecrypt report is a finding related to the Windows version of Truecrypt's random number generator (RNG), which is responsible for generating the keys that encrypt Truecrypt volumes. |
11:37 |
ben_vulpes |
<mod6> [14:57] anyway, that's the deal. we need something that we can work with; one supported environment, blessed by alf. << asciilifeform, what's the One True Build Target for La Serenissima? |
11:37 |
nubbins` |
more like Falsecrypt |
11:38 |
nubbins` |
gentoo on amd64, but the shit don't work |
11:38 |
ben_vulpes |
if it doesn't work how is it a candidate now? |
11:39 |
nubbins` |
whatcha wanna use, windows? |
11:40 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 210462 @ 0.00023945 = 50.3951 BTC [-] {2} |
11:40 |
nubbins` |
gentoo is ostensibly used by alf because it's the sanest. the fact that bitcoind doesn't compile on it doesn't necessarily mean that the OS is the problem, nor does it mean a turd should be adopted as the OTBT |
11:40 |
nubbins` |
but... |
11:40 |
nubbins` |
\o/ |
11:41 |
nubbins` |
i don't know nearly enough about gcc to be of much further use atm |
11:41 |
* |
nubbins` is good at figuring things out but is currently in position of "doesn't know what questions to ask" |
11:41 |
ben_vulpes |
tell me about it. |
11:43 |
ben_vulpes |
anyways, we need a build target. one. not the accidental build target of debian 6 that fell out of my archaeology project. |
11:43 |
ben_vulpes |
talk about unexamined assumptions... |
11:47 |
jurov |
ubuntu!!! |
11:48 |
jurov |
(context: i was hired to patch android system. had to create nigbuntu lxc container for its monstrous build system) |
11:49 |
ben_vulpes |
oh yeah. i did a continuous integration thinger for an android project recently. |
11:50 |
ben_vulpes |
('here, let me duct tape a bunch of libs together so you get emails when your derps break the cpp compiled into the android code') |
11:50 |
ben_vulpes |
surely my finest work |
11:54 |
nubbins` |
heh |
11:55 |
nubbins` |
well, alf's not gonna go for anything w/ systemd |
11:55 |
nubbins` |
what *has* 0.5.3.1 worked on so far? debian, darwin, that it? |
11:57 |
thestringpuller |
systemd is the best thing ever |
11:57 |
thestringpuller |
so fast |
11:57 |
thestringpuller |
much secure |
11:57 |
nubbins` |
ah get out |
11:58 |
thestringpuller |
rich boy sellin' coin broke niggaz wanna jack this just bought a debian "THROW SOME SYSTEMD's on dat bitch" |
11:58 |
thestringpuller |
amirite? |
11:58 |
ben_vulpes |
out, you |
11:58 |
ben_vulpes |
thestringpuller: are you coming to con3? |
11:59 |
thestringpuller |
no. i'm going to have to cancel for family reasons related to finance |
| |
↖ |
11:59 |
thestringpuller |
haven't been able to contact cazalla |
| |
↖ |
12:00 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 136300 @ 0.00023901 = 32.5771 BTC [-] {2} |
12:00 |
thestringpuller |
"It's all fun and games until someone jokes about systemd" lol |
12:01 |
mod6 |
<+nubbins`> what *has* 0.5.3.1 worked on so far? debian, darwin, that it? << what's blowing my mind is why i was able to build just fine on aws Gentoo AMI. Unless it was packed full of stuff in there that we don't want to begin with. Which must be the case. |
12:03 |
mod6 |
here's the build log: http://thebitcoin.foundation/gentoo-x86_32-bitcoind-static.txt |
12:03 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1P2NE3B ) |
12:03 |
nubbins` |
i know nothing about aws, can you pull an image of that machine down locally? |
12:04 |
nubbins` |
mod6 ah 32bit |
12:04 |
nubbins` |
tried 64? |
12:04 |
* |
nubbins` has a suspicion that this is somehow related to 32bit vs 64bit libs |
12:05 |
mod6 |
yeah, I believe I did. But I can't find a build log for it. |
12:05 |
asciilifeform |
<ben_vulpes> what's the One True Build Target for La Serenissima? << why asking -me-, l0l |
12:05 |
asciilifeform |
what if i said 'posix' |
12:05 |
mod6 |
I also seem to recall, and maybe I should dig for it, someone else built for gentoo before anyone was discussing 32bit. |
12:05 |
mod6 |
like... say.. 3-4 weeks ago when we were testing stuff. |
12:06 |
nubbins` |
asciilifeform then i'd mention again that i built it on POSIX-compliant os |
12:06 |
asciilifeform |
general rule is that i should be able to at least obtain the build target using -the compilers i presently have- and a set of sourceballs. |
12:06 |
nubbins` |
that happens to be made by crapple |
12:06 |
asciilifeform |
that is, i should not have to download any binaries. |
12:06 |
asciilifeform |
nor should nubbins`, or ben_vulpes, or the rest. |
| |
↖ |
12:06 |
asciilifeform |
<nubbins`> well, alf's not gonna go for anything w/ systemd << damn right |
12:06 |
nubbins` |
one of the solutions floated for the "no lssl, lcrypto" thing was to download precompiled bins |
12:06 |
nubbins` |
i lel'd |
12:07 |
mod6 |
asciilifeform: can you make a repeatable build environment for The Foundation to use going forward? Something put together by you, blessed by you, so we're all building/testing/using something that "fits in head"? |
12:07 |
nubbins` |
"can't untie the knot in your laces? cut em off and apply glue-backed velcro" |
12:08 |
asciilifeform |
mod6: i suggested this some time near day 1 if anyone recalls |
12:08 |
nubbins` |
yeah, see !s qemu |
12:08 |
asciilifeform |
but do folks really want to pass a multigig bag of shit around ? |
12:08 |
nubbins` |
mod6 in fairness my gentoo was installed using the official docs, and it's reacting precisely the same as alf's |
12:08 |
asciilifeform |
^^ |
12:08 |
mod6 |
What I was hoping for is maybe a build script. Would that be muti-gig? |
12:08 |
nubbins` |
"build script" is sorta the install guide :P |
12:09 |
asciilifeform |
mod6: build script is what we have now |
12:09 |
asciilifeform |
and see the result. |
12:09 |
asciilifeform |
no, it would have to be a disk image for an emulated machine |
12:09 |
asciilifeform |
to be 100% replicable across time and space |
12:09 |
asciilifeform |
regardless of whether you have a 'pc' or 'elbrus' |
12:09 |
nubbins` |
mod6 ^ |
12:09 |
asciilifeform |
or hypertrophied nintendo |
12:09 |
mod6 |
Ok, so say that you have installed via offical docs, bla bla bla. Ok, then our release doesn't work. But we need to fix defects, and I refuse to have this happen going forward. So we need something repeatable. |
| |
↖ |
12:09 |
* |
nubbins` has a virtualbox .VDI with gentoo installed |
12:10 |
asciilifeform |
nubbins`: i'd rather have something that isn't as dependent on pc |
12:10 |
asciilifeform |
virtualization of pc arch only works on pc arch. |
12:11 |
nubbins` |
yeah |
12:11 |
nubbins` |
well. |
12:11 |
asciilifeform |
try to understand why i am hesitant to put out a binary image for folks to run |
12:11 |
mod6 |
i don't want a binary. |
12:11 |
mod6 |
i want a script that will build all of the "accepted"/"blessed" versions of the things it needs; gcc, etc, etc, etc. |
12:12 |
mod6 |
we have to get to some sort of common ground here. |
12:12 |
asciilifeform |
mod6: say i publish a recipe for constructing said image (runs on, e.g., qemu-system-mipsel). and then you do it, and we learn that your disk image differs from mine which differs from nubbins` which differs from mircea_popescu's etc |
12:12 |
asciilifeform |
what then. |
12:12 |
asciilifeform |
mod6: i want a script that will build all of the "accepted"/"blessed" versions << notice that this is where we were with bitcoind ? |
12:13 |
asciilifeform |
let's rephrase a bit |
12:13 |
mod6 |
ok. im not sure if we have a way forward on this project. or if there is, I don't know what it is. |
12:13 |
asciilifeform |
the only -canonical- parent of a given build on my box is my particular hardware plus my particular disk contents |
12:14 |
asciilifeform |
given that i do not especially feel like publishing the entire contents of my disk, nor could you replicate my machine easily (most of the components are no longer produced) - the next best thing is to somehow create an equivalent |
12:14 |
asciilifeform |
with, yes, maximally detailed instructions made publi |
12:14 |
asciilifeform |
c |
12:14 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 167100 @ 0.00023779 = 39.7347 BTC [-] {2} |
12:14 |
asciilifeform |
the other non-negotiable requirement is that it be -small- |
12:14 |
jurov |
can't be some supported-till-2020 distro used for now? gentoo is good, but moving target |
12:14 |
asciilifeform |
because we -would- have to eventually audit the binaries. |
12:15 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: 'supported' means what ? |
12:16 |
nubbins` |
before we dig too deep, is it fair to say that qemu is worth using for hosting dev environment? |
12:16 |
nubbins` |
leaving aside the question of OS for now |
12:16 |
asciilifeform |
nubbins`: i have used it for dev work for many years. |
12:16 |
nubbins` |
ok |
12:16 |
asciilifeform |
it is a simple enough beast |
12:16 |
nubbins` |
so maybe we can start there |
| |
↖ |
12:17 |
asciilifeform |
there -are- even simpler emulators |
12:17 |
asciilifeform |
like gxemul |
12:17 |
nubbins` |
what's the simplest we could get away with? |
12:17 |
asciilifeform |
these do not focus on any -physical- machine that existed in life |
12:17 |
asciilifeform |
but a 'textbook' mips plus bitmap graphics |
12:17 |
mats |
http://hmarco.org/bugs/AMD-Bulldozer-linux-ASLR-weakness-reducing-mmaped-files-by-eight.html |
12:17 |
assbot |
AMD Bulldozer Linux ASLR weakness: Reducing entropy by 87.5% ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6vG8d ) |
12:17 |
asciilifeform |
i use gxemul in cardano work |
12:17 |
mod6 |
i dont want to rely on an emulator if possible. i'd like to have: a URL to an ISO of gentoo that's "acceptable", a script that pulls down tar balls of required tools and builds them |
12:18 |
jurov |
mhm...how do you ensure you'll hav exact versions of stuff once gentoo moves on? |
12:18 |
asciilifeform |
mod6: again, iso for what box |
12:18 |
mod6 |
x86_64 |
12:18 |
nubbins` |
uh does gxemul emulate x86? |
12:18 |
asciilifeform |
if you have physical hardware, you do not control all of the variables |
12:18 |
asciilifeform |
<nubbins`> uh does gxemul emulate x86? << very much not! |
12:18 |
nubbins` |
:D |
12:18 |
asciilifeform |
only a textbook 'ideal' mips cpu that never existed |
12:18 |
asciilifeform |
but we're cross-compiling anyway |
12:18 |
nubbins` |
right |
12:19 |
asciilifeform |
(gcc doesn't care what it runs on) |
12:19 |
asciilifeform |
all compilation is cross-compilation, really |
12:19 |
mod6 |
ok so we're stuck with using an emulator only. |
12:19 |
nubbins` |
not stuck |
12:19 |
asciilifeform |
not stuck. just gives a golden reference |
12:19 |
mod6 |
how does one then build on an emulator then run it on their desktop or vps or w/e? |
12:19 |
nubbins` |
i wouldn't ascribe "stuck" to having clone-able metal available |
12:19 |
asciilifeform |
you can still take the code and build elsewhere - if you know how |
12:19 |
asciilifeform |
mod6: cross compile |
12:20 |
asciilifeform |
like we now do for 'pogo' |
12:20 |
nubbins` |
i fear this'll add complexity from the start because you won't know if the cross-compile is failing because it's a cross-compile or because the code's borked |
12:20 |
asciilifeform |
if the cross-compile is failing because it's a cross-compile << cross-compile is the gold standard for correctness |
12:20 |
asciilifeform |
why? -- because you know it cannot be using the system's libs |
12:21 |
asciilifeform |
thinkaboutit |
12:21 |
nubbins` |
ah, this is correct |
12:21 |
asciilifeform |
does not make the code smarter, no |
12:21 |
nubbins` |
cross-compile failing would probably be a canary |
12:21 |
asciilifeform |
but eliminates several holes-through-which-the-night-walks-in |
12:21 |
nubbins` |
other pros/cons for qemu vx gxemul? |
12:21 |
nubbins` |
might as well get em all laid out now |
12:22 |
asciilifeform |
http://gxemul.sourceforge.net |
12:22 |
assbot |
GXemul ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6wdHc ) |
12:22 |
asciilifeform |
it has simplified hardware, not copied from any physical machine sold. quite like many similar emulators used in schools |
12:23 |
asciilifeform |
and mips is a very simple and well-defined cpu arch. |
12:23 |
asciilifeform |
qemu on the other hand emulates many physical machines |
12:23 |
asciilifeform |
including i386 and x86_64 |
12:23 |
asciilifeform |
which you can physically get. |
12:23 |
asciilifeform |
but is a more complex beast |
12:24 |
asciilifeform |
the third choice, included for completeness, is that we do none of this |
12:24 |
asciilifeform |
and carry on with our old approach. |
12:24 |
asciilifeform |
of trying to get to the bottom of why the thing built for some folks |
12:25 |
nubbins` |
aha |
12:26 |
nubbins` |
welp |
12:26 |
nubbins` |
based on this, i think qemu is the third choice |
12:27 |
asciilifeform |
aha lol |
12:27 |
asciilifeform |
fourth then. |
12:27 |
nubbins` |
okay, so. |
12:28 |
nubbins` |
if anyone reading feels like being tasked |
12:28 |
nubbins` |
do a run-through (or 10) of getting gxemul set up, and make a guide |
12:29 |
nubbins` |
i'm assuming the built environments can be swapped around from person to person? |
12:29 |
asciilifeform |
nubbins`: yes, that's the whole point. |
12:29 |
nubbins` |
ok |
12:29 |
* |
nubbins` asks "sanity check" questions more often than most |
12:29 |
asciilifeform |
38108c7e4f1332bf80046a63e4a7c5e0fbce7f83a62fdeaa4518ef02947d7de83aac20b0307d286b7eb5d9c721b8400d449d4f244b2bc9358a2502fa21f56b73 /usr/portage/distfiles/gxemul-0.6.0.tar.gz |
12:30 |
asciilifeform |
^ my snapshot |
12:30 |
asciilifeform |
dated feb. 14 2010 |
12:30 |
nubbins` |
current stable is only 0.6.0.1 |
12:31 |
nubbins` |
welp |
12:31 |
nubbins` |
my path forward is prolly gonna be (a)gxemul (b) gentoo on same (c) 0.5.3.1 on same |
12:32 |
nubbins` |
i do feel that we'll run into precisely the same issues as we're having with our current gentoo installs |
12:32 |
asciilifeform |
deedbot- http://dpaste.com/11V97ED |
12:32 |
assbot |
dpaste: 11V97ED: gxemul ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6xMVL ) |
12:32 |
nubbins` |
but hey. the plural of anecdote is proof, yes? |
| |
↖ |
12:32 |
asciilifeform |
deedbot...? |
12:32 |
nubbins` |
!up deedbot- |
12:32 |
jurov |
will it be able to run or even debug bitcoind? |
12:33 |
asciilifeform |
nubbins`: not gentoo for the (so far, hypothetical) emulated machine |
12:33 |
asciilifeform |
buildroot |
12:33 |
nubbins` |
o, rite |
12:33 |
jurov |
otherwise no one will use that for development |
12:33 |
asciilifeform |
we don't need to upgrade it ever |
12:33 |
asciilifeform |
or add packages |
12:33 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: clearly this is part of the spec, it must build for a) self b) other archs |
12:33 |
asciilifeform |
or cannot be used. |
12:33 |
asciilifeform |
i am also open to using a bsd of one kind or another |
12:34 |
jurov |
building and usefully running are two disticnt things |
12:34 |
nubbins` |
BingoBoingo messed w/ 0.5.3.1 on bsd? |
12:34 |
nubbins` |
i'll be afk-ish, one last color to lay down on these business cards |
12:34 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: the good thing about an emulator is that you can emulate machine of any size, providing you have one 20x or so that size. |
12:34 |
asciilifeform |
is deedbot dead ? |
12:34 |
jurov |
even openbsd prefers to maintain racks of obsolete hardware to running emulators |
| |
↖ |
12:35 |
nubbins` |
deedbot- afasdfasdfgwre |
12:35 |
nubbins` |
deedbot- http://dpaste.com/11V97ED |
12:35 |
assbot |
dpaste: 11V97ED: gxemul ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6ycv7 ) |
12:35 |
deedbot- |
Bad URL or network outage. |
12:35 |
jurov |
so i'm not very keen on this |
12:35 |
nubbins` |
deedbot- http://dpaste.com/11V97ED.txt |
12:35 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1F6ydPH ) |
12:35 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: openbsd is solving a rather different problem, 'waltzing' it on variety of archs |
12:35 |
deedbot- |
accepted: 1 |
12:35 |
nubbins` |
asciilifeform ^ |
12:35 |
nubbins` |
raw txt |
12:36 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: i can't say i'm creaming my pants with excitement over the idea of doing this. but so far the alternatives have been disappointing |
12:36 |
nubbins` |
jurov openbsd keeps a room of shit hardware because it's expected to run on that shit hardware in the real world |
12:36 |
nubbins` |
not on emulators of the shit hardware |
12:37 |
nubbins` |
<+nubbins`> i'll be afk-ish, one last color to lay down on these business cards |
12:38 |
asciilifeform |
if using gxemul, i was speaking specifically of http://gxemul.sourceforge.net/gxemul-stable/doc/machines/machine_testmips.html |
12:38 |
assbot |
GXemul - Documentation (0.6.0.1) ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6yySC ) |
12:38 |
asciilifeform |
(it supports other, more realistic archs too, which i actually forgot because never tried) |
12:39 |
asciilifeform |
and before anyone asks, the ram is adjustable! |
12:39 |
asciilifeform |
or it would be a joke |
12:39 |
nubbins` |
HAHA i was about to. |
12:39 |
nubbins` |
how 'bout the cpu speed ;p |
12:39 |
asciilifeform |
adjustable by buying faster physical cpu, lol |
12:40 |
asciilifeform |
i think everyone here knows what an emulator is |
12:40 |
asciilifeform |
and what the serious tradeoffs are. |
12:40 |
nubbins` |
i know i'd sure as fuck rather play Super Spike V-Ball on an actual NES |
12:40 |
asciilifeform |
i wouldn't. fucking hate ntsc and 60hz flicker |
12:41 |
jurov |
why not use jvm? </troll> |
12:41 |
nubbins` |
hue |
12:41 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: dotnet! |
12:41 |
nubbins` |
asciilifeform i wonder how well it works w/ modern tvs |
12:41 |
* |
nubbins` has NES, but in storage |
12:41 |
asciilifeform |
nubbins`: most tv sets still come with ntsc jacks |
12:42 |
asciilifeform |
last i checked |
12:42 |
* |
asciilifeform has not been to a tv store in a very long time |
12:42 |
nubbins` |
yeah they still come w/ RCA in |
12:42 |
nubbins` |
incidentally, the fact that NES has RCA out is amazing |
12:42 |
assbot |
AMAZING COMPANY! |
12:43 |
asciilifeform |
nubbins`: why ? |
12:43 |
asciilifeform |
how else would it output |
12:43 |
asciilifeform |
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/urbit-dev/zhMRI9hn4KI/bMYtcr9o5QkJ << unrelated mega-l0l |
| |
↖ |
12:43 |
assbot |
Google Discussiegroepen ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6zdnb ) |
12:44 |
asciilifeform |
http://cryptome.org/2015-info/dragoon/dragoon-ride.htm << wtf |
12:44 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1F6zjet ) |
12:45 |
asciilifeform |
^ eu welcomes reich IV as it welcomed III |
12:46 |
nubbins` |
asciilifeform via stupid RF adapter |
12:46 |
nubbins` |
plugged into coax input |
12:46 |
asciilifeform |
aha those. |
12:46 |
asciilifeform |
i remember those. |
12:46 |
nubbins` |
yeah |
12:46 |
nubbins` |
my atari 2600 one had a switch for CH 2/3 |
12:46 |
* |
asciilifeform never had 'nes' but had 'commodore 64' |
12:47 |
asciilifeform |
anyway it was usually the tv which lacked rca in |
12:47 |
asciilifeform |
commodore, for instance, had the out |
12:47 |
nubbins` |
back then, yeah. a rarity. |
12:47 |
nubbins` |
imagine, future-proofing a video game console in 1983 :0 |
12:48 |
asciilifeform |
http://cryptome.org/2015-info/dragoon/pict21.jpg << very special l0lsauce |
12:48 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1F6zR3T ) |
12:49 |
asciilifeform |
wonder if the muppet ever wondered why his pissant kingdom was ever occupied by ru. |
12:49 |
nubbins` |
hahahahaha is he holding a fucking pint of draft? |
12:50 |
asciilifeform |
and ahahaha we know, it was because it lacked a 'big daddy' to cry to |
12:50 |
nubbins` |
oh wow there's another almost-empty glass behind the other side of the banner |
12:50 |
nubbins` |
o.O |
12:50 |
nubbins` |
together we will *hic* |
12:50 |
nubbins` |
TOGETHER WE WILL *HIC* [SIC] NOT ALLOW... |
12:52 |
punkman |
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/education/learning-curve/american-students-head-germany-free-college |
12:52 |
assbot |
American students head to Germany for free college | Marketplace.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6Anz0 ) |
12:54 |
punkman |
this girl I know moved to germany to work at some tech company, 800eur salary for first 2 years or something. |
| |
~ 25 minutes ~ |
13:20 |
nubbins` |
woo, done, nicest cards yet |
13:20 |
* |
nubbins` wanders away to void himself |
13:23 |
punkman |
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/32157624 |
13:23 |
assbot |
Woman reported for flashing Google Street View car in South Australia - BBC Newsbeat ... ( http://bit.ly/1CVQCSh ) |
13:27 |
punkman |
http://m0.joe.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/30094607/Nazi.gif |
13:27 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1CVS72X ) |
13:27 |
punkman |
" balaclava-clad goon attempts to burn a fire-resistant EU flag" |
13:27 |
jurov |
together we will *hic* ...so? let's have fun |
13:30 |
jurov |
alf takes his usaschwitz suffering too seriously |
13:33 |
asciilifeform |
;;later tell mircea_popescu http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1181853joe_sacco_buffoons_tale.png << l33t w4r3z scan. this comic was probably not intentionally about the collapse of fiat world, but is a good parable for it regardless. |
13:33 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1CVUKlf ) |
13:33 |
gribble |
The operation succeeded. |
13:41 |
assbot |
[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 77 @ 0.01505727 = 1.1594 BTC [+] {6} |
| |
~ 21 minutes ~ |
14:02 |
asciilifeform |
'hey hey, ho, ho,' dns in bitcoind 'has got to go!!' |
14:14 |
mircea_popescu |
good mornin'! |
14:20 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 439400 @ 0.00025376 = 111.5021 BTC [+] {2} |
14:27 |
ben_vulpes |
ein popescu! |
14:27 |
jurov |
morning! |
14:27 |
mircea_popescu |
ja! |
14:28 |
jurov |
damn, i realized took me half day to get through last 24h logs |
14:28 |
jurov |
should be doing sth else |
14:29 |
asciilifeform |
l0l |
14:32 |
ben_vulpes |
dude these logs are dense |
14:32 |
mircea_popescu |
heh. as in stupid ? |
14:32 |
ben_vulpes |
it's not the number of lines but the maaaadness described herein |
14:32 |
jurov |
BingoBoingo: interested in "Weekly #b-a"? i need at least someting useful to come out of this |
14:32 |
mircea_popescu |
ahahaha wut! |
14:33 |
mircea_popescu |
jurov yes actually, summaries have been sought and hoped and desired for year+ |
14:33 |
ben_vulpes |
every 2 lines i have to hare off to the internet - "buildroot" "qemu" |
14:33 |
mircea_popescu |
ben_vulpes that's only because you're a young fox. |
14:33 |
asciilifeform |
there breatheth a man who has not heard of 'qemu' ? |
14:33 |
ben_vulpes |
up yrs, asciilifeform |
14:33 |
jurov |
^ |
14:33 |
mircea_popescu |
apparently. EVEN I!!!! had actually seen the thing used. |
14:34 |
mircea_popescu |
and honestly, i should be the king noob here. |
14:34 |
ben_vulpes |
naw, you're too old to be a noob anymore. |
14:34 |
mircea_popescu |
but i never put any serious effort into electrical engineering! |
14:34 |
mircea_popescu |
point in case : that's how you say "computing" imh. |
14:34 |
jurov |
s.qntr arrived |
14:34 |
mircea_popescu |
jurov just sent it yeah. was about to notify you |
14:34 |
jurov |
who wants to get'em first? |
14:34 |
mircea_popescu |
but then I GOT CAUGHT IN A BA CONVO |
14:34 |
ben_vulpes |
"imh" << in my house? |
14:35 |
mircea_popescu |
head |
14:35 |
ben_vulpes |
ah |
14:35 |
jurov |
lol |
14:35 |
mircea_popescu |
i was going to, but then i got caught in conversation! |
14:35 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu> but i never put any serious effort into electrical engineering! << said the chap with his own bitcoind running on soviet trinary comp |
14:35 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform you will notice it is not my effort tho. |
14:35 |
mircea_popescu |
i have put plenty of ope, as you may well be aware of from unrelatedlandia. |
14:36 |
asciilifeform |
haha aha. |
14:36 |
asciilifeform |
<jurov> s.qntr arrived << my broadcast also coming soonish |
14:36 |
* |
asciilifeform presently lightly occupied with a couplea unrelated things |
14:36 |
mircea_popescu |
we should start our own cockney. coupla unrelated things = fleas. |
14:37 |
asciilifeform |
'flee,' said the fly; 'fly,' said the flea... |
14:37 |
bitstein |
mircea_popescu, mod6: The deed link at the bottom of http://thebitcoin.foundation/declaration.txt redirects to a weird domain registration site. |
14:37 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1Gkw3A7 ) |
14:38 |
mircea_popescu |
ugh |
14:38 |
ben_vulpes |
linkrot! |
14:38 |
mircea_popescu |
hot damn... |
14:38 |
mircea_popescu |
kakobrekla any idea why http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/ redirects to unregistry.com ? |
14:38 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1GkweLY ) |
14:38 |
trinque |
perfect time for me to point out that current incarnation needs friendly hosting |
14:39 |
mircea_popescu |
oh wait it is not kako's fault |
14:39 |
mircea_popescu |
TRINQUE |
14:39 |
trinque |
is not |
14:39 |
trinque |
I don't run whatever URL that is |
14:39 |
mircea_popescu |
a) put the fucking history in and b) fix your 404 scheme |
14:39 |
trinque |
that's not hitting the current one, wherever it's going |
14:39 |
mircea_popescu |
what happens is that http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/9ULZPc7yeZ9fQEA1aZ73H6mcv1s2C4gYFAbNTb5urovj gets -> to deedbot.org/ deed/9ULZPc7yeZ9fQEA1aZ73H6mcv1s2C4gYFAbNTb5urovj |
14:39 |
assbot |
Domain Names - New gTLDs | Uniregistry ... ( http://bit.ly/1GkwmLc ) |
14:39 |
mircea_popescu |
which... |
14:40 |
bitstein |
mircea_popescu: http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/ redirects to http://deedbot.org/ for me. It's that specific deed link that is redirecting to unregistry.com |
14:40 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/19NfCjn ) |
14:40 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/19NfCzN ) |
14:40 |
mircea_popescu |
right. |
14:40 |
trinque |
http://deedbot.org/deed/9ULZPc7yeZ9fQEA1aZ73H6mcv1s2C4gYFAbNTb5urovj << normal aws 404 |
14:40 |
assbot |
404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/19NfJv7 ) |
14:40 |
trinque |
and I don't know what that registry is |
14:40 |
trinque |
never heard of her |
14:40 |
mircea_popescu |
weirdness. |
14:41 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 188050 @ 0.00025508 = 47.9678 BTC [+] {3} |
14:41 |
mircea_popescu |
> Host: deeds.bitcoin-assets.com |
14:41 |
mircea_popescu |
> Accept: */* |
14:41 |
mircea_popescu |
> |
14:41 |
mircea_popescu |
< HTTP/1.1 302 Found |
14:41 |
mircea_popescu |
< Server: nginx/1.2.1 |
14:41 |
mircea_popescu |
eyah ok. |
14:55 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72500 @ 0.00025193 = 18.2649 BTC [-] |
| |
~ 31 minutes ~ |
15:26 |
mircea_popescu |
<trinque> perfect time for me to point out that current incarnation needs friendly hosting << fucking hell someone start that hoster already. |
15:26 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 169700 @ 0.00024797 = 42.0805 BTC [-] {2} |
15:30 |
jurov |
trinque what specs? |
15:30 |
trinque |
minimal |
15:30 |
asciilifeform |
if we do the emulatron thing, it will -definitely- need hosting |
15:30 |
mircea_popescu |
you need what, python for the bot ? |
15:30 |
trinque |
python and go |
15:30 |
asciilifeform |
i'd rather not put a multigig turd on my puny hostatron |
15:30 |
trinque |
and some space for the blockchain |
15:30 |
mircea_popescu |
some space aka 50gb |
15:30 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000000 @ 0.000257 = 257 BTC [+] {8} |
15:31 |
jurov |
interesting, what it needs blockchain for? |
15:31 |
trinque |
has its own node |
15:31 |
asciilifeform |
naturally deedbot has node |
15:31 |
asciilifeform |
how else. |
15:32 |
nubbins` |
<+punkman> " balaclava-clad goon attempts to burn a fire-resistant EU flag" <<< protip: spray paint the corner of the thing before lighting |
15:32 |
jurov |
i see |
15:32 |
mircea_popescu |
pretty much means server for it can't have ssd. |
15:33 |
mircea_popescu |
nubbins` or squirt 190 proof alcohol on it |
15:33 |
asciilifeform |
ssd isn't -really- 'disposable' |
15:33 |
jurov |
so, we can bootstrap on aws and move to iron later |
15:33 |
asciilifeform |
lasts about as long as the shitty mechanical disks sold in past 5 yrs |
15:33 |
asciilifeform |
neither is worth anything except in heterogeneous tandem. |
15:33 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform just meant for size. server ssd 100gb is expensive as shit |
15:33 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1245983 @ 0.00026371 = 328.5782 BTC [+] {8} |
15:34 |
jurov |
trinque any specific distro? |
15:34 |
mircea_popescu |
jurov i think he is on aws already |
15:34 |
trinque |
currently gentoo which is my preference |
15:34 |
nubbins` |
mircea_popescu i'd say that man drinks the 190 proof |
15:35 |
nubbins` |
prob drinks the paint too, i mean, that 'clava doesn't even fit him! it's like 3x too big! |
15:35 |
mircea_popescu |
wait he's dressed in a pastry ? |
15:36 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 168200 @ 0.00026831 = 45.1297 BTC [+] {2} |
15:36 |
nubbins` |
heh |
15:36 |
nubbins` |
"the man donned his baclava" |
15:36 |
nubbins` |
oh hey, 10 minutes left in this auction: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=975256.msg10963734#msg10963734 |
15:36 |
assbot |
Casascius 0.5 BTC Silver Series-2 physical bitcoin: NO RESERVE, 30-DAY AUCTION ... ( http://bit.ly/1BV27pl ) |
15:36 |
asciilifeform |
unrelated: |
15:36 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: http://thesemenette.com/home.html |
15:36 |
assbot |
The Semenette® : : : Even Better than the Real Thing ... ( http://bit.ly/1BV29xp ) |
15:36 |
nubbins` |
if you wanna see people be loose with money, that's the place to go |
15:36 |
asciilifeform |
(don't ask how found this, l0l) |
15:37 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 585817 @ 0.00027037 = 158.3873 BTC [+] {5} |
15:38 |
jurov |
trinque are you interested in running it on pogoplug? |
15:38 |
trinque |
jurov: the bot part I think I will |
15:39 |
trinque |
mircea_popescu: what do you think about the deeds being added to the wiki? |
15:39 |
trinque |
jurov: I have a pogo here |
15:39 |
hanbot |
.deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=CmWcr0iw |
15:39 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1BV33df ) |
15:40 |
mircea_popescu |
trinque added to the wiki how ? |
15:40 |
mircea_popescu |
which one ? |
15:41 |
nubbins` |
hanbot try "deedbot- http://blah" |
15:41 |
nubbins` |
and also: |
15:41 |
nubbins` |
!up deedbot- |
15:42 |
hanbot |
deedbot- http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=CmWcr0iw |
15:42 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1BV3xjC ) |
15:42 |
deedbot- |
rejected: 1 |
15:42 |
nubbins` |
man you guise. /nick nubbot |
15:42 |
hanbot |
lol |
15:43 |
nubbins` |
maybe deedbot should be auto-voiced by assbot? dem silent fails |
15:43 |
trinque |
that'd be quicker than waiting for me to give it fancy auth-to-assbot code |
15:44 |
nubbins` |
!gettrust assbot deedbot- |
15:44 |
assbot |
deedbot- is not registered in WoT. |
15:44 |
nubbins` |
well |
15:44 |
jurov |
anyone interested in hosted pogoplugs w/2 terabyte hdds? or 2x100G ssd? |
15:45 |
* |
nubbins` has 3 pogoplugs and 2 more in the mail |
15:45 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: didn't you predict that someone would manufacture automatic impregnatrons ? i distinctly recall an essay concerning such |
15:45 |
nubbins` |
i'm gonna need babysitting, not hosting ;D |
15:45 |
trinque |
hanbot: it does not know your public key, which is added in the same fashion |
15:45 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform aha. |
15:46 |
nubbins` |
man i'm outta touch w/ this new deedbot |
15:46 |
nubbins` |
i gotta pastebin my public key? |
15:46 |
mircea_popescu |
the lulzy part is that they try to make it sound feminine :D |
15:46 |
mircea_popescu |
"The Semenette® is unique because it offers the ability to replace the embedded plastic tubing with each use, eliminating sanitary concerns about mixing liquids you choose to put into the tube." |
15:46 |
BingoBoingo |
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you not getting enough fluid ? :D << I survived log catch up time |
15:47 |
mircea_popescu |
somebody had equal-opportunity thermodynamics class. |
15:47 |
asciilifeform |
also i predicted a very different machine, that would include the chinese donor 'milking' box in the next room |
15:47 |
asciilifeform |
in real time |
15:47 |
mircea_popescu |
mp |
15:47 |
mircea_popescu |
mp's rule of the junkworld : no machine may be roomsized. |
15:48 |
asciilifeform |
not room sized in its crate! |
15:48 |
mircea_popescu |
if orc can't carry it, it already has problems. |
15:48 |
asciilifeform |
but set up with a wall, or else what is the point |
15:48 |
mircea_popescu |
free the crates11! |
15:48 |
asciilifeform |
(what the actual point is, is probably only comprehensible to u.s. pheminist types) |
15:48 |
mircea_popescu |
i don't think you exactly understand how envy that wears a coat and hides in the hallways works. |
15:49 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: it could be packaged in a large suitcase, containing a reel of hose. |
15:49 |
mircea_popescu |
imagine there was a breed of marginally intelligent rabid dogs, and they attacked cars |
15:49 |
mircea_popescu |
because... can't carry one. |
15:49 |
nubbins` |
ahaha man this is great. |
15:49 |
nubbins` |
people putting bids in with 60 seconds left |
15:50 |
mircea_popescu |
this is kind-of what online action has come to mean i thought. |
15:50 |
nubbins` |
i'm gonna pretend that wasn't a typo |
15:50 |
nubbins` |
because this truly is action |
15:50 |
nubbins` |
anyway, late bids extend the end time by 15 minutes |
15:50 |
nubbins` |
so it's just people being silly |
15:51 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113700 @ 0.00027094 = 30.8059 BTC [+] {2} |
15:51 |
hanbot |
deedbot- http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=yRW6nuuQ |
15:51 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1GkHOqc ) |
15:51 |
deedbot- |
imported: EA0FAD90985B3025576A5061454B0FC0BC07B87E |
15:51 |
mircea_popescu |
lol |
15:51 |
hanbot |
deedbot- http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=CmWcr0iw |
15:51 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1BV3xjC ) |
15:51 |
deedbot- |
accepted: 1 |
15:52 |
hanbot |
ty trinque, nubbins :) |
15:52 |
trinque |
np |
15:53 |
asciilifeform |
envy that wears a coat and hides in the hallways works << also wai wat |
15:53 |
asciilifeform |
what kind of coat does envy wear ? |
15:53 |
mircea_popescu |
allow me to show you. |
15:54 |
mircea_popescu |
http://www.demotivation.us/media/demotivators/demotivation.us__ENVY-It-Wears-a-Coat-and-Hides-in-Hallways-1.jpg |
15:54 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1BV6yAs ) |
15:54 |
asciilifeform |
l0l |
15:54 |
asciilifeform |
what even is that |
15:54 |
asciilifeform |
can't tell if fatchick or hippie guy |
15:55 |
mircea_popescu |
that is the socialist of tomorrow. |
15:55 |
mircea_popescu |
neither can anyone else tell if fatchick or metrosexual. |
15:55 |
mircea_popescu |
but there clearly must be some regulation about all this unsanctioned mirror picture taking by self |
15:56 |
asciilifeform |
what's this to do with impregnatron, though |
15:57 |
asciilifeform |
(or perhaps i can guess what) |
15:57 |
mircea_popescu |
there's a reason you can't have a roomsized machine. |
15:57 |
mircea_popescu |
same reason people attacked big iron and lab cages. |
15:57 |
mircea_popescu |
which people ? these people. |
15:58 |
asciilifeform |
only posited 'room' to allow for the lesbianz to avoid seeing the spooge-supplier |
15:58 |
mircea_popescu |
there's a reason stuff must be ipad even if crapple does not work : orc wants things it can carry |
15:58 |
asciilifeform |
i'm engineer not psychiatrist. |
15:58 |
mircea_popescu |
there's no such thing as an engineer that's not a psychiatrist. |
15:58 |
asciilifeform |
point |
15:58 |
mircea_popescu |
THIS is what psychiatry actually is |
15:58 |
nubbins` |
mega point |
15:58 |
mircea_popescu |
what ballas does is more akin to theatrics. |
15:58 |
asciilifeform |
'build me a harness for efficiently tossing nun from helicopter.' -- 'what size nun?' -- 'a number-five.' |
15:59 |
mircea_popescu |
lol wut ?! |
15:59 |
asciilifeform |
^ example |
15:59 |
mircea_popescu |
now i'm lost lol. explain in simple words ? |
15:59 |
asciilifeform |
'mine is not to question why, mine is but to do and die' |
15:59 |
mircea_popescu |
oh lol |
16:00 |
asciilifeform |
assumed that apparatus for delivering fresh spoodge into a lesbian is necessary |
16:00 |
asciilifeform |
proceeded from there. |
16:00 |
mircea_popescu |
you can't proceed. "this harness is no good" "Why not ?" "it's yellow. duh." |
16:00 |
mircea_popescu |
ever ran into this ? |
16:00 |
asciilifeform |
every time. |
16:00 |
mircea_popescu |
so then stop pretending and learn psychiatry :D |
16:00 |
* |
asciilifeform learns. |
16:02 |
* |
mircea_popescu points out that his entire life he's been a transaltor, and perhaps the most successful/best paid/dearliest loved translator ever. started off translating the law to a bunch of burly dudes, then later translated romania to foreigners, then later translated psychiatry to engineers |
16:02 |
mircea_popescu |
today translating bitcoin to everyone. |
16:02 |
nubbins` |
lo siento pero no entiendo |
16:03 |
nubbins` |
i mean uh |
16:03 |
mircea_popescu |
you know thats funny ? |
16:03 |
nubbins` |
no speako spanisho |
16:03 |
BingoBoingo |
jurov: BingoBoingo: interested in "Weekly #b-a"? i need at least someting useful to come out of this << I see no reason why not |
16:03 |
asciilifeform |
<mircea_popescu> today translating bitcoin to everyone. << the book. it must be printed! |
16:03 |
mircea_popescu |
cause lo siento means sorry, but it also means i hear you in a very unspanish ethymological approach |
16:03 |
mircea_popescu |
nubbins` call it castejan, suddenly you're refined. |
16:03 |
nubbins` |
unless you replace the two L's with a J |
16:04 |
asciilifeform |
'castejan' is castellano with mouth full ? |
16:04 |
nubbins` |
if i wanted to be refined, i'd decompose under pressure into hydrocarbons! |
16:04 |
mircea_popescu |
that's the fuck they do here. |
16:04 |
nubbins` |
parts of colombia do this too |
16:04 |
mircea_popescu |
they read ll like it were ascii. |
16:04 |
nubbins` |
medejin |
16:05 |
asciilifeform |
'The one L lama, he's a priest The two L llama, he's a beast ...' |
16:05 |
nubbins` |
tried alpaca meat, never tried llama |
16:06 |
mircea_popescu |
me either. |
16:06 |
nubbins` |
while i'll advance that it was "good", peruvian standard is to beat any steak with a maul before grilling |
16:06 |
nubbins` |
so i can't really say if it's actually as tender as it seemed |
16:06 |
asciilifeform |
and what of guinea pig meat ? |
16:07 |
nubbins` |
cuy? never tried. |
16:07 |
asciilifeform |
it was always no. 1 in my 'travel to south americas' mental list |
16:07 |
nubbins` |
was told it's too much work for the amount of meat |
16:07 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.QNTR] 6415 @ 0.00037719 = 2.4197 BTC [+] |
16:07 |
mircea_popescu |
i dunno anyone offering either of these o.O |
16:08 |
nubbins` |
both popular in peru |
16:08 |
asciilifeform |
iirc in peru |
16:08 |
asciilifeform |
aha |
16:08 |
nubbins` |
viva el peru glorioso! |
16:09 |
hanbot |
<mircea_popescu> i dunno anyone offering either of these o.O << my butcher sells llamaburgers |
16:09 |
mircea_popescu |
nuts. |
16:09 |
mircea_popescu |
are they any good ? |
16:10 |
hanbot |
i'm not as curious |
16:10 |
nubbins` |
anything burger-ified is generally edible |
16:10 |
* |
nubbins` has admittedly made "lamburger helper" more than once :( |
16:10 |
mircea_popescu |
hanbot no cuy ? |
16:10 |
trinque |
nubbins`: sounds... delicious |
16:10 |
nubbins` |
trinque lamb is ++ |
16:11 |
trinque |
yeah, I tend to encounter it via greek food |
16:11 |
mircea_popescu |
lamb yes. |
16:11 |
trinque |
love it |
16:11 |
mircea_popescu |
i mostly eat indian food lamb. |
16:11 |
nubbins` |
i should make donairs ("doner kebab" for you non-eastern-canadians) with actual lamb soon |
16:11 |
nubbins` |
beef's good, but i mean |
16:14 |
nubbins` |
saw this on a wall in a "love park" in lima, stays with me: http://imgur.com/2smAiq6 |
16:14 |
assbot |
Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1BVbVQf ) |
16:15 |
asciilifeform |
do any of you lot have an x86 or x86_64 bitcoind built -with debug symbols still- in ? |
16:15 |
asciilifeform |
i'd like one for a quick experiment. |
16:16 |
asciilifeform |
ideally dynamic build |
16:16 |
nubbins` |
not i |
16:16 |
nubbins` |
er hm |
16:16 |
nubbins` |
i don't think i have debug symbols built in. easy way to check? |
16:17 |
asciilifeform |
nm found one |
16:17 |
nubbins` |
young nubs in the amazon: http://imgur.com/gl4vfmS |
16:17 |
assbot |
Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1BVcKs3 ) |
16:19 |
nubbins` |
oh man, that was the year i burned my hand! you can see the scar |
16:19 |
* |
nubbins` reminisces |
16:20 |
asciilifeform |
let's rephrase |
16:20 |
asciilifeform |
does anyone have an output of the latest release build |
16:20 |
asciilifeform |
but with -dynamic- |
16:22 |
asciilifeform |
... or not. |
16:24 |
* |
nubbins` is running latest release build, but assuming static |
16:25 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: I am building one on amd64 gentoo for ya |
16:25 |
hanbot |
mircea_popescu hello sir! no cuy at all i tell you! |
16:25 |
mircea_popescu |
lmao |
16:25 |
mircea_popescu |
nubbins` well... "static". |
16:25 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114900 @ 0.00027158 = 31.2045 BTC [+] {2} |
16:25 |
mircea_popescu |
e-static it should be called. |
16:26 |
nubbins` |
yeah |
16:26 |
nubbins` |
staticky |
16:26 |
nubbins` |
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=975256.msg10963987#msg10963987 <<< the winning bid |
16:27 |
assbot |
Casascius 0.5 BTC Silver Series-2 physical bitcoin: NO RESERVE, 30-DAY AUCTION ... ( http://bit.ly/1BVfHJn ) |
16:27 |
nubbins` |
meat for dinner tonight |
16:28 |
asciilifeform |
holy everliving phuck, is auditing a cpp-built bin a pain. |
16:29 |
mats |
found yerself a greater fool eh |
16:29 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu said that pets can be trained to do anything - make them do this. |
16:29 |
mircea_popescu |
you know asciilifeform, i don't hate them. i love them. |
16:30 |
asciilifeform |
then train'em to do it with love. |
16:30 |
mircea_popescu |
lol |
16:31 |
asciilifeform |
anyway, for the record, my experiment concerned the question of how to create a mapping between a source tree and sections of resulting bin |
16:31 |
nubbins` |
http://imgur.com/jCUBrdF <<< man i got really skinny after two weeks of diarrhoea |
| |
↖ |
16:31 |
assbot |
Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1BVgNES ) |
16:31 |
asciilifeform |
graph-colouring problem. |
16:32 |
nubbins` |
asciilifeform five colours should be enough for everyone 8) |
16:32 |
nubbins` |
also, you brit-spell?! |
16:32 |
asciilifeform |
wat |
16:33 |
trinque |
he's referring to your dirty communist spelling of "color" |
16:33 |
nubbins` |
quick: what's the word for the people who live in the houses around you |
16:33 |
nubbins` |
don't think, just type |
16:33 |
asciilifeform |
l0l |
16:33 |
asciilifeform |
i dun spell, me fingerz spell |
16:33 |
asciilifeform |
nubbins`: schmucks? |
16:33 |
nubbins` |
bahaha |
16:33 |
nubbins` |
smarty |
16:33 |
nubbins` |
neigh*r |
16:33 |
asciilifeform |
Ah |
16:34 |
* |
nubbins` genuinely curious |
16:34 |
asciilifeform |
ou |
16:34 |
* |
nubbins` applauds softly |
16:34 |
nubbins` |
wd |
16:34 |
asciilifeform |
i mean, if we're gonna zap vowels why not let'em all go |
16:34 |
asciilifeform |
like the semitic langs |
16:34 |
asciilifeform |
nghbrs |
16:34 |
mircea_popescu |
neighbour. |
16:35 |
mats |
http://www.ics.uci.edu/~perl/ndss15_opaque_cfi.pdf |
16:35 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1P3qlH3 ) |
16:35 |
nubbins` |
asciilifeform then a couple thou years from now you've got people taking guesses as to the True Name of mrc ppsc |
16:35 |
nubbins` |
YMMV, YHWH |
16:35 |
asciilifeform |
mats: is it just me or do 'aslr' and related items give a feeling of 'plugging the wrong end of the funnel' ? |
16:36 |
mats |
well, yes. |
16:36 |
asciilifeform |
mats: as in, 'why is the enemy supplying instructions for your cpu to execute in the first place' |
16:37 |
asciilifeform |
aslr is sorta like building a labyrinth in your house to slow burglars |
| |
↖ |
16:37 |
asciilifeform |
between rooms |
16:37 |
mats |
fun fact: i played starcraft with the guy that patented ASLR. |
16:38 |
asciilifeform |
mats: how about the guy who patented the stone axe ? |
16:38 |
mats |
he also went on to write the Control Flow Guard code. |
16:38 |
nubbins` |
heh |
16:38 |
nubbins` |
iirc there's an hg wells story about the guy who invented the stone axe. |
16:38 |
nubbins` |
not a bad read |
16:38 |
asciilifeform |
it boggles my mind that aslr could be patented |
16:38 |
asciilifeform |
what year filed ? |
16:39 |
mircea_popescu |
anything can bve patented |
16:39 |
mircea_popescu |
and as peole stupidify, more and more tyhings will be. |
16:39 |
mats |
2006 iirc |
16:39 |
trinque |
there's a patent on having a database of products and modifiers which dates to 2000s sometime |
16:39 |
mircea_popescu |
stuff that was ridiculous to patent in 1850, such as "how to make bread" definitely meets the bar today. |
16:39 |
asciilifeform |
mr mold, of all people, has watertight prior art from, iirc, '94 |
16:39 |
asciilifeform |
it was his one and only academic paper. |
16:39 |
mats |
http://www.google.com/patents/US7831791 |
16:39 |
assbot |
Patent US7831791 - Method of address space layout randomization for windows operating systems - Google Patents ... ( http://bit.ly/1BViSki ) |
16:39 |
trinque |
the twist was "synchronizing the data between multiple terminals |
16:39 |
nubbins` |
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/27365/27365-h/27365-h.htm#Page_59 |
16:39 |
assbot |
The Project Gutenberg eBook of Tales of Space and Time, by H. G. Wells ... ( http://bit.ly/1BViSAK ) |
16:39 |
nubbins` |
if anyone's interested |
16:39 |
asciilifeform |
l0l mentions winblows by name |
16:40 |
asciilifeform |
at uspto these are called 'wall hanger patents' |
16:40 |
asciilifeform |
as in, the only thing they are good for is office decoration |
16:40 |
trinque |
sure that and dragging every entity smaller than a billion plus in revenue into court to die by starvation |
16:41 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: you need at least a basic troll-grade patent for that |
16:41 |
asciilifeform |
not any old schizo rant will suffice |
16:41 |
asciilifeform |
contrary to popular belief |
16:41 |
trinque |
til there's an even lower tier of "valid" patents |
16:41 |
trinque |
I've seen insane, *insane* cases in the hospitality software space |
16:41 |
asciilifeform |
'designpatent' ? |
16:42 |
trinque |
prior art from the dawn of computing type patents |
16:42 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform it occurs to me that if you spend some time now designing and patenting gasenwagens |
16:42 |
mircea_popescu |
you may end up controlling that space |
16:42 |
asciilifeform |
prior art, if can be authenticated, invalidates patent. retroactively. |
16:43 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: except that usg owns the patents (war trophies!) |
16:43 |
nubbins` |
heee |
16:43 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: jury of "peers" |
16:43 |
trinque |
this prior art thing if it actually worked would burn like a grease fire through 99.9% of software patents |
16:43 |
asciilifeform |
100% |
16:43 |
trinque |
the standards for "novel" seem trivial |
16:44 |
asciilifeform |
anyway patents are a passenger on the burning atomic dirigible of usg |
16:44 |
asciilifeform |
all of'em. |
16:45 |
mircea_popescu |
not all of them. |
16:45 |
mircea_popescu |
seeing how you called whatever phrase a mpism |
16:45 |
asciilifeform |
unless a patent is so poorly constructed as to be thrown out immediately, any patent litigation in usaworld is a contest of bank accounts. |
16:46 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: i didn't say 'authorships' but -patents- as we know'em. |
16:46 |
asciilifeform |
as in the weirdo crown monopolies. |
16:46 |
mircea_popescu |
well that. |
16:48 |
asciilifeform |
incidentally, did anyone read the 'buffoon's tale' link ? |
16:48 |
asciilifeform |
perfect allegory for usg. |
16:48 |
asciilifeform |
and its works. |
16:49 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: current release busts for me on uint32_t as well |
16:50 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: patched? and if so, how ? |
16:50 |
trinque |
have not made any attempt to fix it yet; have to attend to something else first |
16:50 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: post barf plz. |
16:50 |
trinque |
k |
16:50 |
asciilifeform |
along with os/gcc/etc |
16:51 |
mats |
;;seen FabianB |
16:51 |
gribble |
FabianB was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 17 weeks, 6 days, 4 hours, 35 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <FabianB> not down but very slow it seems |
16:52 |
mircea_popescu |
scoopbot fetch |
16:52 |
mircea_popescu |
scoopbot -fetch |
16:52 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/01HWQYM.txt |
16:52 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1BVmpz3 ) |
16:53 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/1V47S94.txt |
16:53 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1BVmylR ) |
16:53 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: aha, precisely what happens to the published (without weirdo patches) release on my boxes. |
16:53 |
asciilifeform |
nubbins` et al ^^^^^^ |
16:54 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: do you use a hardened toolchain? |
16:54 |
asciilifeform |
hardened how ? |
16:54 |
trinque |
gentoo hardened profile |
16:54 |
asciilifeform |
nope |
16:54 |
trinque |
dunno why that would magically poof in a header defining that type |
16:54 |
asciilifeform |
wait, did it ?! |
16:55 |
trinque |
no, saying I don't know why that would be relevant |
16:55 |
asciilifeform |
because your dump is quite the same as mine |
16:56 |
trinque |
mine is busted as yours |
16:56 |
asciilifeform |
incidentally, i don't like 'selinux' |
16:56 |
trinque |
wondering what's different about the debian |
16:56 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: yeah I don't use it |
16:56 |
mats |
do you like grsec? |
16:56 |
asciilifeform |
i invoke mircea_popescu's maxim that 'if there is anything good in it, it will have to be reinvented naively' |
16:56 |
trinque |
hardened here just means having things like stack protection turned on |
16:56 |
mats |
and why don't you like sel |
16:56 |
mats |
selinux |
16:57 |
asciilifeform |
mats: guess. |
16:57 |
trinque |
in my case it seems like a vast, complex surface to deal with |
16:57 |
trinque |
seems also that within that complexity you could hide nefarious things |
16:58 |
mats |
i know why i don't like selinux, but i have a feeling we don't intersect |
16:58 |
mats |
lemme guess: NSA? |
16:58 |
asciilifeform |
aha. |
16:58 |
asciilifeform |
but not merely the fact of. |
16:58 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084056 << why would fb care ?! |
16:58 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 13:34:48; lobbes: I posted obamaz magic decree to my facebook. Quite expectedly, no one cares. |
16:59 |
asciilifeform |
mats: grsec >> but the sheer nonsensicalness of pretending that kernel can limit what kernel can do. consider this claim: 'Through PaX's UDEREF and KERNEXEC features, grsecurity forces any userland data access to go through an approved accessor and rejects any attempt to execute userland code in kernel context.' |
16:59 |
trinque |
nobody I know cares |
16:59 |
trinque |
cept those here and a handful of clever meatspace guys |
16:59 |
asciilifeform |
mats: i can trivially make mincemeat of this by issuing raw dma cycles. |
| |
↖ |
17:00 |
asciilifeform |
mats: selinux and similar are exemplary of usg approach to 'seek00r1ty' - add layers of 'granular' bureaucracy to the os |
17:00 |
asciilifeform |
as if this did something tangible beyond making it even -less- fit-in-head. |
17:01 |
asciilifeform |
and even further discouraging genuine audit, as if this were possible or even necessary |
17:01 |
mats |
i dunno about that second part, but in general i agree with you |
17:01 |
asciilifeform |
it isn't just 'voodoo taint' from nsa. |
17:02 |
* |
asciilifeform doesn't practice voodoo |
17:03 |
trinque |
this seems to be why openbsd just has chroot, bsd has fancy jails or whatever, and now linux has Containerz (TM) |
17:03 |
trinque |
just make fucking chroot work |
17:03 |
trinque |
that and a working firewall |
17:03 |
asciilifeform |
but overall, folks who unrepentantly spout nonsense about one thing, damage their credibility re: other things. |
17:03 |
mircea_popescu |
you can't make chroot work |
17:03 |
asciilifeform |
^ |
17:03 |
trinque |
whysat |
17:03 |
mircea_popescu |
that's the dirty secret behind 20 years of "linux" |
17:03 |
trinque |
oh on linux |
17:03 |
mircea_popescu |
because, conceptually, it is nonsense. |
17:03 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: actually it is the dirty secret behind 40 yrs of unix |
17:03 |
asciilifeform |
but yes. |
17:03 |
mircea_popescu |
there's a deep reason permissions don't fucking work |
17:04 |
mircea_popescu |
that reason is that intelligent people do not wish to spend their time working on idiocy |
17:04 |
mircea_popescu |
and they do wish to tell themselves that they can ever work on "something else" |
17:04 |
mircea_popescu |
because hey, engineers not psychiatrists, right ? |
17:04 |
asciilifeform |
unix perms are the proverbial 'pissing-section in swimming pool' |
17:05 |
trinque |
lol, I understand |
17:05 |
trinque |
makes sense. |
17:05 |
mircea_popescu |
that's what the jwz dood quite typically told me : that he "doesn't care about whatever political bone i have toi pick" |
17:05 |
asciilifeform |
for those who don't follow the antics of lunatics: usg is -obsessed- with domain segregation |
17:05 |
mircea_popescu |
as if that's what happened, i was sitting on an exercise ball one day and spontaneously decided hey, let me make a political party and pick bones! |
17:05 |
asciilifeform |
to the point of commissioning $maxint cpu archs that pretend to do it |
17:06 |
trinque |
ah that makes it very clear. |
17:06 |
asciilifeform |
^ to a muppet, any deviation from his muppetology is a schizo paroxysm of irrational |
17:06 |
trinque |
"pretend to do it" << is exactly the useful thing there |
17:07 |
asciilifeform |
to jwz et al, google simply 'is' - like the sun. |
17:07 |
mircea_popescu |
right. |
17:08 |
asciilifeform |
to briefly return to thread, it is not a -total- waste of time to learn what usg imagines 'security' - for its private uses - means. |
17:08 |
asciilifeform |
even if from purely psychiatric view |
17:08 |
asciilifeform |
!s what colour are your bits |
17:08 |
assbot |
0 results for 'what colour are your bits' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=what+colour+are+your+bits |
17:08 |
asciilifeform |
http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23 |
17:08 |
assbot |
What Colour are your bits? - Ansuz - mskala's home page ... ( http://bit.ly/1BVqe7l ) |
17:08 |
asciilifeform |
^ that |
17:08 |
asciilifeform |
and we -did- it here |
17:09 |
asciilifeform |
'In Paranoia, everything has a colour-coded security level (from Infrared up to Ultraviolet) and everybody has a clearance on the same scale. You are not allowed to touch, or have any dealings with, anything that exceeds your clearance. If you're a Red Troubleshooter, you're not allowed to walk through an Orange door. Formally, you're not really supposed to even know about the existence of anything above your clearance. An |
17:09 |
asciilifeform |
yone who breaks the rules is a Commie Mutant Traitor, subject to the death penalty. Much of the game revolves around the consequences of the security levels. For instance, Friend Computer might assign a team of Red Troubleshooters to re-paint a hallway that ought to be Orange but was painted Yellow by mistake the Commie Mutant Traitors. It's quite likely in such a case that the Troubleshooters will all end up shooting each o |
17:09 |
asciilifeform |
ther for treason against Friend Computer, since none of them are allowed to touch the paint, go near the hallway, or talk about their mission, and they're all charged with enforcing the rules on one another.' |
17:09 |
asciilifeform |
^ for the record. |
17:10 |
mircea_popescu |
lol notbad. what is this ? |
17:10 |
asciilifeform |
the colour essay |
17:10 |
asciilifeform |
!s monolith |
17:10 |
assbot |
9 results for 'monolith' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=monolith |
17:10 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu even wrote an essay on the subject. |
17:12 |
BingoBoingo |
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--cfqe4JUp--/fqceoem5sfd8khvzkpkc.jpg |
17:12 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1BVrkju ) |
17:13 |
mircea_popescu |
lol first time this decade ? |
17:13 |
cazalla |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084247 <<< to be fair, you didn't try until 4-5 hours ago |
17:13 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 15:59:59; thestringpuller: haven't been able to contact cazalla |
17:14 |
BingoBoingo |
mircea_popescu: Apparently he set the record |
17:15 |
mircea_popescu |
nice lordosis on the chick... that babe knows how to party. |
17:16 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46800 @ 0.0002719 = 12.7249 BTC [+] |
17:17 |
asciilifeform |
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-10-2014#883664 |
17:17 |
assbot |
Logged on 19-10-2014 18:32:52; asciilifeform: engineers, who (as shown by the 'monolith' gedankenexperiment, search logs) often do not really apprehend how lizard-reich and its subordinate bureaucracies really think. |
17:17 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084081 <<< this, for the record, is kinda ridiculous. |
17:17 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 14:05:13; lobbes: I'd like to believe if I just focus on myself and amass enough wealth I can weasel my way through time |
17:17 |
mircea_popescu |
might as well make your strategy "to get really really fat" |
| |
↖ |
17:17 |
asciilifeform |
'too fat to hang' |
17:18 |
asciilifeform |
(some prisoner in usa got a temporary stay of execution on this argument.) |
17:18 |
asciilifeform |
'i wus sentenced to hang not heads-off' |
17:18 |
cazalla |
!rate thestringpuller 1 overpromised and underdelivered on task he set himself for qntra |
17:18 |
assbot |
Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/0e2233d7dfc2e173 |
17:20 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084116 << whoever the fuck came up with this "binary module loading" bs should be found and named. |
17:20 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 14:54:13; assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 03:26:58; nubbins`: "glibc uses libnss to support a number of different providers for address resolution services. Unfortunately, you cannot statically link libnss, as exactly what providers it loads depends on the local system's configuration." |
17:20 |
mircea_popescu |
i can see why this would be useful as an alternative method for very peculiar situations |
17:21 |
mircea_popescu |
but otherwise, in vast majority of cases, libnss SHOULD JUST CONTAIN ALL! |
17:21 |
mircea_popescu |
like fucking code is supposed to do. |
17:21 |
asciilifeform |
many things 'should' xxxxx. |
17:22 |
mircea_popescu |
no. |
17:22 |
asciilifeform |
but the list of 'should but doesn't' appears to grow, grow, every time we turn over a rock. |
17:22 |
cazalla |
!verify assbot:cazalla.rate.thestringpuller.1:16ae1454fd113b8cc0c781069043ec4cfadbdd32f55f8f028415f9d88daa29df |
17:22 |
assbot |
Successfully updated the rating for thestringpuller from 2 to 1 with note: overpromised and underdelivered on task he set himself for qntra |
17:22 |
asciilifeform |
to no surprise of mine |
17:22 |
mircea_popescu |
that you don't randomly stick binary in my ass is not a "many things" |
17:22 |
mircea_popescu |
this is rape. |
17:23 |
asciilifeform |
reminds me |
17:23 |
asciilifeform |
iirc i killed 'loadable modules' on pogotron but forgot to disable the now-useless mod utils. |
17:23 |
asciilifeform |
oughta be in the next patch. |
17:24 |
mats |
2M s.mpoe buy wall @ 0.00027 |
17:24 |
asciilifeform |
(loadable modules are good for kernel dev work and really not much else.) |
17:25 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform do you even have a clue why the fuck libnss is made that way ? |
17:25 |
mircea_popescu |
is it to fit it on w/e arm shits ? |
17:25 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: in so far as i can tell, the problem in question is entirely shot in the head by my dns removal patch. |
17:25 |
mircea_popescu |
is it to load whatever early ityeration of nsa diddle in systems ? |
17:25 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: i cannot fathom why it was made this way, other than for the usual reasons. |
17:25 |
asciilifeform |
there is no conceivable technical justification for it, beyond sloth. |
17:26 |
mircea_popescu |
who did this ? |
17:26 |
asciilifeform |
there is also the overall 'rust' resulting from no one ever building static anything whasoever for years. |
17:26 |
mircea_popescu |
if whoever the fuck is responsible for this crapever shows up in wot he's getting my -. |
17:28 |
asciilifeform |
one day we will have a simon wiesenthal of crapware. |
17:28 |
mircea_popescu |
pure anomie, this shit. idiots "doocracying" with no conception of right and wrong whatsoever. |
17:28 |
asciilifeform |
hunt the gnomes and drag them kicking, screaming, to the stake. |
17:28 |
mircea_popescu |
"i have tried and so nobody should criticize the steaming pile of dumb dung " |
17:30 |
|
Bet placed: 10 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/ Odds: 10(Y):90(N) by coin, 10(Y):90(N) by weight. Total bet: 142.30184834 BTC. Current weight: 73,553. |
17:30 |
|
Bet placed: 3 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $150 before July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1133/ Odds: 13(Y):87(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 9.61572615 BTC. Current weight: 94,475. |
17:30 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: don't expect them to walk in voluntarily |
17:30 |
mircea_popescu |
i don't expect anything. |
17:30 |
asciilifeform |
^ the correct thing to expect. |
17:31 |
mircea_popescu |
"unfortunately, the way we made this foss software is that it behaves exactly like windows" |
17:31 |
asciilifeform |
i actually find it interesting how astonishingly well-clustered the 'digerati' set is. |
17:31 |
mircea_popescu |
"there's nothing wrong with pki, it just fixes dns." |
17:31 |
asciilifeform |
zawinski lives next to lanier in my head and this is not accidental nor misleading |
17:31 |
asciilifeform |
even if they never met in the flesh |
17:31 |
mircea_popescu |
you KNOW this shit even got to be used in the first place because usg said so. |
17:32 |
mircea_popescu |
"why do we have dns ? it sucks! " "yes but that's how nsa could figure out how to diddle via libnss" |
17:32 |
mircea_popescu |
"so why are you all pushing pki ? it's fucktarded beyond reason" "no look, it has a whiff of salami right in this spot!" |
17:33 |
asciilifeform |
in many cases (quite arguably dns included) the turd was an ad-hoc hack from the days of arpa but was cemented in place because guess-why. |
17:33 |
asciilifeform |
this is a fine point but not unimportant zoologically |
17:34 |
asciilifeform |
because it is uncommon for the enemy to -invent- a turd ab initio |
17:34 |
mircea_popescu |
and that, incidentally, is the objection ot poettering : it's not a matter of "doing". the man simply has no conception of right and wrong. |
17:34 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: so there's u_int32_t defined in sys/types.h but not uint32_t; I would be interested to see what sys/types.h holds for the other folks |
17:34 |
asciilifeform |
it is normally fished out of a pre-existing latrine. |
17:34 |
mircea_popescu |
he might as well be a monkey. |
17:34 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform just pick one of the preexisting sluts and then prevent washing, sure. |
17:34 |
trinque |
comment above: /* But these were defined by ISO C without the first `_'. */ |
17:34 |
mircea_popescu |
i will have the heads of the ab-initio people tho. |
17:35 |
asciilifeform |
there's u_int32_t defined in sys/types.h but not uint32_t << ahahahahaha. |
17:36 |
asciilifeform |
someone actually wrote that. |
17:36 |
asciilifeform |
with a straight face. |
17:36 |
asciilifeform |
and, would probably come up with 'reasons' |
17:36 |
asciilifeform |
i wonder what would be his 'reasons' after a few days of hanging upside-down over a cobra pit. |
17:37 |
asciilifeform |
(or insert a more appropriate prelude to a punishment to fit the crime) |
17:38 |
* |
trinque begins a debootstrap to see what it craps in sys/types.h |
17:38 |
asciilifeform |
soooooooo many ways to arrange four bytes. |
17:38 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: stop trying to stifle people's creativity |
17:41 |
asciilifeform |
'friar sank to his knees! sacred sensation! miracle proclaimed! blessed defecation!' |
17:42 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: said poettering to the porcelain, parting is such sweet sorrow |
17:43 |
trinque |
debootstrap failed mysteriously the first time |
17:43 |
asciilifeform |
trinque: from earlier link |
17:43 |
asciilifeform |
failed how |
17:43 |
trinque |
I was just being creative |
17:43 |
asciilifeform |
l0l |
17:43 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: couple files didn't download |
17:43 |
trinque |
reran, went better |
17:44 |
jurov |
http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/Name-Service-Switch.html#Name-Service-Switch |
17:44 |
assbot |
The GNU C Library: Name Service Switch ... ( http://bit.ly/19MOLU5 ) |
17:44 |
jurov |
nss was added to "remove hacks" |
17:44 |
jurov |
hahaha |
17:44 |
asciilifeform |
mega-l0l! |
17:46 |
mircea_popescu |
i don't think nss per se is the problem here however |
17:46 |
mircea_popescu |
the idea of loading binary modules and breaking static builds is not exactly = to nss. |
17:46 |
mircea_popescu |
you could have it implemented sanely just as well. |
17:46 |
asciilifeform |
could. |
17:46 |
asciilifeform |
just as you could have north america ruled by a sane ottoman empire. |
17:46 |
asciilifeform |
or whatnot. |
17:47 |
jurov |
i guess they wanted to avoid running standalone process and whatnot |
17:47 |
mircea_popescu |
you don't even ened a motherfucking process. |
17:47 |
mircea_popescu |
dude holy hell, no configured file ever existed before ? |
17:47 |
asciilifeform |
jurov: appreciate that what we are attempting with static build is like digging out one of those lugers ru kids routinely find in the ground and trying to fire it |
17:47 |
asciilifeform |
it's solid rust |
17:47 |
asciilifeform |
can barely make out which way the barrel points |
17:48 |
jurov |
butbutbut we need to support dns resolving with mongodb(r)(tm)!!! |
17:49 |
mircea_popescu |
nuts. |
17:49 |
mircea_popescu |
and that this made it into c... |
17:49 |
jurov |
and without(gasp) recompiling libc or running dns servers! |
17:49 |
mircea_popescu |
FFS! |
17:50 |
asciilifeform |
fortunately we don't have to fill this swamp today |
17:50 |
asciilifeform |
apply dns-zap patch. |
17:50 |
asciilifeform |
bitcoin does not need dns for anythign! |
| |
↖ |
17:53 |
nubbins` |
http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000040.html |
17:53 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/19MPtAN ) |
17:53 |
nubbins` |
for those just catching up |
17:53 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.QNTR] 4470 @ 0.00037719 = 1.686 BTC [+] |
17:53 |
nubbins` |
now, lemme give this a whirl |
17:54 |
asciilifeform |
careful with that one |
17:54 |
asciilifeform |
once you dump dns seeder, you gotta have some live nodes (!!!) in the seed list |
17:54 |
asciilifeform |
which, in turn, should not be the hardcoded idiocy |
17:54 |
asciilifeform |
but passed on commmandline |
17:54 |
asciilifeform |
i never got around to shitting out a patch to remove the hardcoded seedz |
| |
↖ |
17:55 |
asciilifeform |
ALSO |
17:55 |
asciilifeform |
now that i read that patch, i notice that it does not eliminate -all- occurrences of the dns crapolade |
17:55 |
* |
nubbins` perks ears |
17:55 |
asciilifeform |
there is yet another |
17:55 |
asciilifeform |
iirc, in the spot where the thing learns own ip. |
17:56 |
asciilifeform |
bbl, gotta buy food. |
17:56 |
nubbins` |
what's it sending a POST request to whatismyip.com? :D |
17:56 |
asciilifeform |
^ dns query !! |
17:57 |
trinque |
holy shit no one knows why there's both a u_int32_t and a uint32_t |
17:57 |
trinque |
the latter is defined in c99 |
17:57 |
nubbins` |
prob because one asshole somewhere along the line had a build error |
17:57 |
nubbins` |
and "this seems to fix it" |
17:58 |
trinque |
all I can find is derps going "just include ..." |
17:58 |
trinque |
NO SHIT |
17:58 |
nubbins` |
i suppose github could tell you who committed it the first time |
17:58 |
nubbins` |
i don't keep a list of this type of person, mp may be interested enough to look |
17:59 |
jurov |
may have been satoshi himself |
| |
↖ |
17:59 |
nubbins` |
may have been there from the beginning |
18:00 |
trinque |
this forum post thing where people pop off with some tape fix rather than explaining what's going on |
18:00 |
trinque |
blowtorch |
18:01 |
cazalla |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084788 dude, what's in your ear? |
18:01 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 20:31:31; nubbins`: http://imgur.com/jCUBrdF <<< man i got really skinny after two weeks of diarrhoea |
18:02 |
trinque |
asciilifeform: could boost be pulling or not pulling this type in based on some kind of config magic? |
18:02 |
cazalla |
lucky i am not otw to conf, i would so attach a padlock to your ear :P |
18:03 |
nubbins` |
you could try |
18:05 |
trinque |
in my /usr/include I see for example this "nettle" thing doing typedef u_int32_t uint32_t; |
18:06 |
nubbins` |
o.O |
18:08 |
nubbins` |
http://i.imgur.com/hOH0HCLl.png << silkscreened biz cards on 160# black paper |
18:08 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/19MQIzU ) |
18:08 |
trinque |
nubbins`: those look great. |
18:08 |
nubbins` |
ty |
18:08 |
nubbins` |
really nice texture on the black parts too |
18:08 |
nubbins` |
dat subtle relief |
18:11 |
punkman |
s |
18:13 |
nubbins` |
ok alf i'm applying all 3 of your patches to a fresh 0.5.3.1, should know one way or another in an hour or so |
18:17 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36956 @ 0.0002719 = 10.0483 BTC [+] |
18:21 |
danielpbarron |
!up wpalczynski |
18:21 |
danielpbarron |
nubbins`, nice card |
18:22 |
nubbins` |
thanks, hand-printed |
18:22 |
* |
trinque can suddenly not paste into chrome |
18:23 |
nubbins` |
typedef paste u_paste32_t; |
18:23 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64650 @ 0.00027024 = 17.471 BTC [-] {2} |
18:24 |
trinque |
nubbins`: pls don't trigger me |
18:24 |
trinque |
I actually typedef'd the missing type to see what happened, and now it's pissed about something else |
18:24 |
trinque |
would love to show ya >:) |
18:26 |
nubbins` |
hey, pastebin is hungry |
18:27 |
trinque |
nubbins`: http://dpaste.com/136CA5Z.txt |
18:28 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/19MS6mi ) |
18:28 |
nubbins` |
trinque try alf's patch |
18:28 |
trinque |
link? |
18:29 |
nubbins` |
http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150401/asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation_8685d541f20bcfe8d8cc9fefba663dd861f7b237.patch |
18:29 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/19MSaCD ) |
18:29 |
trinque |
ty |
18:29 |
trinque |
heh yeah I was derping through exactly what he fixed |
18:30 |
nubbins` |
ah, i wouldn't say it's fixed |
18:30 |
trinque |
well, he was a notch closer anyway |
18:30 |
nubbins` |
regardless, try again |
18:30 |
nubbins` |
yes |
18:34 |
trinque |
nubbins`: kerboom -> http://dpaste.com/33G6CY8.txt |
18:34 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1GQAjbi ) |
18:36 |
trinque |
starting clean and logging all output |
18:37 |
trinque |
but it looked like the stuff not being linked *was* built |
18:37 |
nubbins` |
i am also at the "cannot find -lssl, -lcrypto" stage |
18:38 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28800 @ 0.00027 = 7.776 BTC [-] |
18:42 |
trinque |
nubbins`: what does export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$OURLIBS/lib under the rest of the exports do for you? |
18:42 |
trinque |
I'm waiting on mine to rebuild |
18:42 |
trinque |
this is in auto.sh |
18:43 |
asciilifeform |
<nubbins`> ok alf i'm applying all 3 of your patches << wai wat, 3?! |
18:44 |
asciilifeform |
the integer retardation patch includes the one from portatron |
18:45 |
asciilifeform |
/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.8.4/../../../../x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.8.4/../../../../lib64/libpthread.a(pthread_cond_wait.o): relocation R_X86_64_32 against `__gcc_personality_v0' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC |
18:45 |
asciilifeform |
/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.8.4/../../../../lib64/libpthread.a: error adding symbols: Bad value |
18:45 |
asciilifeform |
^ wat. |
18:45 |
asciilifeform |
(from trinque's) |
18:46 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59100 @ 0.0002719 = 16.0693 BTC [+] |
18:50 |
nubbins` |
<+asciilifeform> the integer retardation patch includes the one from portatron <<< o look |
18:51 |
asciilifeform |
? |
18:51 |
asciilifeform |
it should go without saying that asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation_8685d541f20bcfe8d8cc9fefba663dd861f7b237.patch is not a tree candidate ! |
18:51 |
nubbins` |
:D |
18:51 |
asciilifeform |
i probably should have specified this in the signed text |
| |
↖ |
18:52 |
asciilifeform |
but stating it here for anyone who did not immediately grasp this. |
18:52 |
trinque |
I dunno what that link error is. |
18:52 |
nubbins` |
while we're at it, do not operate chainsaws w/ your genitals |
18:55 |
danielpbarron |
nubbins`, how many of those birds of newfoundland books do you have left? / remind me to get one of those if/when the qntra cards get sent out |
18:56 |
nubbins` |
danielpbarron we'll be making them for as long as people buy them. i'll set one aside for ya |
18:56 |
nubbins` |
your if/when is currently an if |
18:57 |
nubbins` |
i floated a design, nobody was too fussy, nothing else suggested |
| |
↖ |
18:57 |
* |
nubbins` generally doesn't do design work on open-ended spec |
19:01 |
nubbins` |
:o |
19:10 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54650 @ 0.00027 = 14.7555 BTC [-] |
19:19 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16146 @ 0.0002719 = 4.3901 BTC [+] |
| |
~ 18 minutes ~ |
19:38 |
scoopbot |
New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/mpex-smpoe-march-2015-statement/ |
19:38 |
scoopbot |
New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/qntra-sqntr-march-2015-statement/ |
19:38 |
scoopbot |
New post on The Whet by han@thewhet: http://thewhet.net/2015/line-betting-on-bitbet-march-2014/ |
19:40 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44554 @ 0.00027 = 12.0296 BTC [-] |
19:45 |
hanbot |
lol i can't year. |
19:46 |
BingoBoingo |
!b 2 |
19:46 |
assbot |
Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0HEN57S.txt ) |
19:53 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53400 @ 0.0002719 = 14.5195 BTC [+] |
19:55 |
cazalla |
mircea_popescu, you might need to edit the s.qntr post |
19:59 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55400 @ 0.0002719 = 15.0633 BTC [+] |
20:07 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21518 @ 0.00027 = 5.8099 BTC [-] |
| |
~ 18 minutes ~ |
20:25 |
nubbins` |
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=xEsMZtmE |
20:25 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1CBiIB7 ) |
20:25 |
nubbins` |
^ with asciilifeform's kill-integer and dns-snip patches |
20:28 |
BingoBoingo |
!t m s.mpoe |
20:28 |
assbot |
[MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00023767 / 0.00025475 / 0.0002719 (11285618 shares, 2,875.10 BTC), 7D: 0.00022189 / 0.00025956 / 0.00028207 (45012775 shares, 11,683.73 BTC), 30D: 0.0001443 / 0.00028991 / 0.0004493 (104171490 shares, 30,200.60 BTC) |
20:28 |
BingoBoingo |
!t m s.qntr |
20:28 |
assbot |
[MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0.00037719 / 0.00037719 / 0.00037719 (10885 shares, 4.11 BTC), 7D: 0.00033 / 0.00037676 / 0.00037719 (10985 shares, 4.14 BTC), 30D: 0.00020808 / 0.00027399 / 0.00037719 (40462 shares, 11.09 BTC) |
20:29 |
nubbins` |
i'm not sure if this is confined to my system or not, asciilifeform mod6 danielpbarron ben_vulpes et al |
20:30 |
nubbins` |
but the local build of openssl doesn't copy its includes over to the ourlibs dir |
20:30 |
nubbins` |
simply doing this manually and re-running auto.sh brings me back to... uint32_t: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=pHmyM0FE |
20:30 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1CBiRo2 ) |
20:34 |
nubbins` |
my darwin build put 'em in the right place |
20:34 |
ben_vulpes |
my debian as well |
20:34 |
ben_vulpes |
if i recall correctly - it's been a few days |
20:37 |
nubbins` |
samesies, but i think i'd remember doing this |
20:37 |
nubbins` |
i'm gonna pastebin my entire build if anyone feels like digging w/ me |
20:38 |
nubbins` |
oh, too big. |
20:50 |
cazalla |
https://coinreport.net/antagonist-bitcoin/ first sentence paragraph lol |
20:50 |
assbot |
CoinReport The Antagonist of Bitcoin - CoinReport ... ( http://bit.ly/1GlDOpm ) |
20:51 |
cazalla |
who would've thought americans sit around drinking coffee discussing how much they dislike mircea_popescu |
| |
↖ |
20:55 |
BingoBoingo |
lol was Garrett Keirns Garr255 or the "Surf Captital Management" douche |
| |
↖ |
20:58 |
nubbins` |
haha |
20:58 |
nubbins` |
"Bryce and I have an esoteric, and funny, similarity. We mutually disdain Romanian cryptographer Mircea Popescu. This is how we start our conversation." |
20:58 |
nubbins` |
this should be rich |
20:58 |
punkman |
maybe it's a late april fool's joke? |
20:58 |
nubbins` |
“It never goes down!” says Bryce, referring to the BTC/UNO exchange rate. “That’s the thing people love about UNO. It never goes down.” |
| |
↖ |
20:58 |
punkman |
"He tells his EVUE dream of a RIAA-approved blockchain system that will allow users to keep track of digital content and freely transfer it via internet platforms (i.e. Spotify, iTunes, Windows Media). “People will be able to keep their digital content for life,”" |
20:59 |
punkman |
my non-riaa-approved content will work just fine in 2115 |
20:59 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 124970 @ 0.00027 = 33.7419 BTC [-] |
20:59 |
nubbins` |
hmm |
20:59 |
nubbins` |
i feel like this is a facebook post, but on a website |
21:01 |
nubbins` |
i.e.relevant to the two guys in it, and maybe in passing to some of their friends or family |
| |
~ 16 minutes ~ |
21:17 |
ben_vulpes |
mircea_popescu's a cryptographer nao? |
21:17 |
ben_vulpes |
first a girl, now a cryptographer? |
21:18 |
ben_vulpes |
i guess that's what they call anyone who understands math these days. |
21:19 |
ben_vulpes |
"The project will be a massive undertaking requiring a large seed investment. " |
21:19 |
ben_vulpes |
huehuehuehu i got a large seed investment for ya right here buddy |
21:19 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6950 @ 0.0002719 = 1.8897 BTC [+] |
21:20 |
ben_vulpes |
bryce will also tell you that reputation doesn't matter either. |
21:20 |
ben_vulpes |
HYU |
21:21 |
funkenstein_ |
mega lulz, where to start? |
21:21 |
scoopbot |
New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/04/silk-road-sealed-document-dump-day-full-text/ |
21:22 |
danielpbarron |
"I design blockchains to have purpose. I want the open-source, decentralized DNM to succeed so I can use my RZR coins to buy weed," quips Bryce. |
21:22 |
danielpbarron |
does he not have punk kids all over downtown to provide this service?? |
21:22 |
danielpbarron |
when has it ever been difficult to score weed, seriously |
21:28 |
BingoBoingo |
!up Cogburn |
21:28 |
Cogburn |
thanks :) |
21:28 |
Cogburn |
I'm Bryce Weiner :) |
21:28 |
danielpbarron |
do you gpg? |
21:29 |
cazalla |
i'm president obama |
21:29 |
Cogburn |
oh cmon nobody is gonna pop in here and pretend to be me |
| |
↖ |
21:29 |
ben_vulpes |
can't trust ya tho |
21:29 |
ben_vulpes |
welcome to the new world order |
21:29 |
ben_vulpes |
get your keys sorted, boss |
21:30 |
danielpbarron |
Cogburn, why do you hate mircea_popescu ? |
21:30 |
trinque |
"You think someone would do that, just go on the internet and tell lies?" |
21:30 |
Cogburn |
i don't |
21:30 |
Cogburn |
i dunno why people think that |
21:30 |
Cogburn |
we disagree. that's not hate. |
| |
↖ |
21:30 |
Cogburn |
adults can disagree |
21:31 |
Cogburn |
dialectic and all that |
21:31 |
cazalla |
going by the article, you hate him because you ain't him |
| |
↖ |
21:31 |
danielpbarron |
ok why do you disdain him? |
21:31 |
danielpbarron |
why is he beneath you? |
21:31 |
Cogburn |
going by the article garret has an axe to grind with him :) |
21:31 |
Cogburn |
nobody is beneath me. where do you guys get this stuff? |
21:31 |
danielpbarron |
well he suggested that the sentiment is mutual between you two |
21:31 |
Cogburn |
he would be wrong |
21:31 |
Cogburn |
:) |
21:31 |
BingoBoingo |
Cogburn: Well garret lost people a bunch of money with his Surf Captial Management thing |
21:32 |
Cogburn |
that would only be one way |
21:32 |
danielpbarron |
i did a google search for the word "disdain" and got the feeling that someone or something is unworthy of one's consideration or respect; contempt. |
21:32 |
danielpbarron |
and contempt: the feeling that a person or a thing is beneath consideration, worthless, or deserving scorn. |
21:32 |
BingoBoingo |
And Garrett may or may not also be Garr255 of the Cognitive Mining tire fire |
21:33 |
Cogburn |
i have never expressed disdain. i have expressed passionate disagreement. that's what consensus is about. like the old days of the greek republics arguing the issues of the day on the senate steps |
21:33 |
BingoBoingo |
Cogburn: Would you nick happen to be a reference to Rooster Cogburn? |
21:33 |
Cogburn |
those are garrets words, not quotes |
21:33 |
Cogburn |
Yes, it is. |
21:33 |
cazalla |
fuck u scoopbot! http://qntra.net/2015/04/federal-agent-sells-firearms-via-darknet-market/ |
21:33 |
assbot |
Federal Agent Sells Firearms Via Darknet Market | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1IWX6Be ) |
21:33 |
BingoBoingo |
Sweet |
21:34 |
cazalla |
Cogburn, maybe you should take that up with the surfs up guy instead of us? he wrote it afterall |
21:34 |
ben_vulpes |
Cogburn: get in the wot? |
21:34 |
Cogburn |
here's my key ID |
21:34 |
ben_vulpes |
just so's i can take ye seriously? |
21:34 |
Cogburn |
had to dig that shit out |
21:34 |
Cogburn |
26F3050C |
21:34 |
danielpbarron |
Cogburn, tell it to assbot |
21:34 |
danielpbarron |
!h |
21:34 |
assbot |
http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot |
21:34 |
ben_vulpes |
Cogburn: you savvy wot? |
21:34 |
Cogburn |
danke |
21:35 |
funkenstein_ |
i'm interested in riaacoin |
21:36 |
Cogburn |
who isn't :) |
21:36 |
Cogburn |
its not alt. it's bitcoin |
21:36 |
danielpbarron |
"I've developed what I call a Bitcoin Circadian Rhythm. I've noticed my body has begun aligning itself with the 10-minute block time of the Bitcoin Blockchain." << lolol |
21:36 |
Cogburn |
total misquote |
21:36 |
Cogburn |
but what are ya gonna do |
21:37 |
ben_vulpes |
negrate the fucker |
21:37 |
ben_vulpes |
if you're in the wot that is |
21:37 |
Cogburn |
i think WoT's are kinda culty |
21:37 |
danielpbarron |
so when you tweeted this article, you were using the hashtag "#awesome" in a sarcastic manner? |
21:38 |
Cogburn |
I think it's awesome when people say my name. :) |
21:38 |
trinque |
!b 3 |
21:38 |
assbot |
Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2213JV8.txt ) |
21:38 |
trinque |
those two lines in succession made me lol |
21:38 |
Cogburn |
:) |
21:38 |
BingoBoingo |
<Cogburn> i think WoT's are kinda culty << It makes a decent shit filter though. The postitive ratings often are no where near as informative as the reasons for the negative ratings |
21:39 |
Cogburn |
gamification of reputation is for people who can't give a good handshake or a warm, geniune smile when they meet someone. |
| |
↖ |
21:39 |
Cogburn |
trustless systems are for people with trust issues |
21:39 |
Cogburn |
:) |
21:39 |
* |
danielpbarron stabs Cogburn |
21:40 |
danielpbarron |
you know who gives really warm handshakes? scammers. |
21:40 |
Cogburn |
i dunno. i shook josh garza's hand. unimpressed. |
21:40 |
danielpbarron |
the same people who always have an explaination at the ready as to why they don't like WoTs |
21:40 |
BingoBoingo |
Cogburn: Score are the least important thing about a WoT, walking the graph and reading the feedback is |
21:41 |
funkenstein_ |
for the record, i still think you're trolling us :) |
21:41 |
Cogburn |
not at all |
21:41 |
Cogburn |
I'm here specifically to remove that misconception |
21:41 |
cazalla |
Cogburn, it's not so much the wot that can be gamed but yourself |
21:42 |
trinque |
depends I think as well on initial conditions a great deal. |
21:42 |
Cogburn |
I do agree with everything MP says, but I do respect him. that's sort of a necessary component of dialectic. |
21:42 |
Cogburn |
*do not agree |
21:42 |
BingoBoingo |
funkenstein_: It's not that he's trolling. He's stuck in a wilder wester place |
21:42 |
Cogburn |
We don't all have to agree. |
21:42 |
Cogburn |
The consensus can be "go fuck yourself" |
21:43 |
Cogburn |
:) |
21:43 |
BingoBoingo |
Disagreement is the most valuable thing in the world, especially when its informed |
21:43 |
Cogburn |
^ |
21:45 |
Cogburn |
I think we can bullshit the current system by crypto inside of the existing rules and bring about real change. I do not believe in the decentralized anarcho-capitalist utopia as a world-spanning solution to our ills. I think people will live that way if the want to, but real freedom is the ability to say "no" |
| |
↖ |
21:45 |
Cogburn |
*by using |
21:45 |
funkenstein_ |
itunes |
21:46 |
cazalla |
Cogburn, do you read the logs? you seem to have joined pretty quickly after my mentioning of that lulzy article |
21:46 |
BingoBoingo |
cazalla: Everyone reads the logs |
21:46 |
danielpbarron |
i told him to join |
21:46 |
Cogburn |
https://twitter.com/danielpbarron/status/583802621011501056 |
21:46 |
assbot |
The Antagonist of /hashtag/Bitcoin?src=hashhttp://t.co/j9a3G5bvDS via /CoinReportNews/hashtag/Awesome?src=hash |
21:46 |
Cogburn |
I was invited and I accepted :) |
21:47 |
BingoBoingo |
cazalla: And if they don't danielpbarron offers them the chance |
21:47 |
Cogburn |
I do not go where I am not wanted. I'll talk with anyone who wants to talk. |
21:47 |
danielpbarron |
yeah well you're wearing out my patience with all the spammy smily faces |
21:47 |
funkenstein_ |
do you use itunes? |
21:47 |
cazalla |
ah, fair enough then |
21:47 |
funkenstein_ |
any of you? |
21:48 |
Cogburn |
i smile all the time. don't be so grumpy |
21:49 |
danielpbarron |
and so far all you have to say might as well have been copy pasted from the top comment on a reddit post |
21:49 |
BingoBoingo |
!up CryptoDustin |
21:49 |
Cogburn |
Maybe.. but it's my post and my thoughts and you're the one reading articles about me and bitching, so there is that |
21:50 |
CryptoDustin |
<3 |
21:50 |
Cogburn |
MP doesn't have the market cornered on being crazy. some of us are just fucking nuts as he is. just not as rich. yet. |
21:51 |
danielpbarron |
who says he is crazy? |
21:51 |
BingoBoingo |
danielpbarron: He's going off in a way we find weird. Maybe it ends up kinda fruitful. |
21:51 |
Cogburn |
many people. i fully support his threat to fork bitcoin if gavin's block expansion goes through. he's 100% correct that it is an economic alteration to the network and not simple technical |
21:52 |
danielpbarron |
what?? he has threatened no such thing |
21:52 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51150 @ 0.00027 = 13.8105 BTC [-] |
21:52 |
danielpbarron |
gavin is the one threatening a fork |
21:52 |
Cogburn |
... i'm pretty sure he did |
21:52 |
Cogburn |
gavin has the keys. he's "that guy" |
21:52 |
danielpbarron |
what keys? |
21:52 |
Cogburn |
that's metaphorical |
21:52 |
danielpbarron |
the ones snipped from the code because they mean nothing? |
21:52 |
trinque |
Cogburn: with nothing grounding it to reality |
21:53 |
Cogburn |
that's right |
21:53 |
danielpbarron |
http://thebitcoin.foundation/turdmeister-alert-snip.tar.gz |
21:53 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1DCnJeK ) |
21:53 |
Cogburn |
it's 100% bullshit |
21:53 |
Cogburn |
that's why MP is right |
21:53 |
BingoBoingo |
Cogburn> gavin has the keys. he's "that guy" << Thermos also has a copy of the "Keys" |
21:53 |
Cogburn |
poor choice of words on my part |
21:53 |
trinque |
no problem, but that is the core of the issue |
21:53 |
trinque |
these clowns are no more "the bitcoin guys" than anyone else |
21:53 |
danielpbarron |
gavin has the attention poor people who think that talking about bitcoin makes them a part of it somehow |
21:54 |
Cogburn |
pun intended? what is bitcoin if not the core reference client? |
21:54 |
funkenstein_ |
Alert keys. I hope somebody pushes a cosbycoin message through someday :) |
21:54 |
Cogburn |
it gets really existential really quickly |
21:54 |
danielpbarron |
Cogburn, the reference client is here |
21:54 |
danielpbarron |
not github |
21:54 |
funkenstein_ |
what is the internet if not microsoft IE? |
21:55 |
Cogburn |
there's an article from late 2013 and i wish i could find it entitled "What if Bitcoin turned Evil?" |
21:55 |
Cogburn |
21.co get $120m to make ASICs |
21:55 |
Cogburn |
let's say they end up to comprise 70% of the network |
21:55 |
Cogburn |
and add 100m coins |
21:55 |
danielpbarron |
if you think socialism is good, then bitcoin is evil to you |
21:55 |
Cogburn |
what are you gonna do about it? |
21:56 |
funkenstein_ |
reject the blocks |
21:56 |
danielpbarron |
i'm gonna keep running my node that ignores their invalid blocks |
21:56 |
Cogburn |
so there's now 2 bitcoins |
21:56 |
danielpbarron |
do i care that hundreds of altcoins exist? nope. |
21:56 |
trinque |
yes but which diverged? |
21:56 |
Cogburn |
according to consensus, the 70% wins, right? |
21:56 |
danielpbarron |
well seeing as how i'm using a node which didn't change rules.. |
21:56 |
Cogburn |
but that's a single entity |
21:56 |
funkenstein_ |
$120m to make orphans |
21:57 |
funkenstein_ |
what's next an riaa-controlled blockchain? |
21:57 |
danielpbarron |
the consensus of whom? you still have to sell those 100m coins |
21:57 |
Cogburn |
Looking deeper, that's a silicon valley brain child |
21:57 |
BingoBoingo |
<Cogburn> according to consensus, the 70% wins, right? << The beautiful thing about concensus is how many releases have been make since $100+ BTC which must agree |
21:57 |
Cogburn |
that means all those buddies in palo alto that everyone uses will fork to that chain |
21:58 |
danielpbarron |
good for them. seriously good riddance |
21:58 |
danielpbarron |
they can have their USGcoin |
21:58 |
trinque |
and if the economic implications of their fork eventually make the thing worthless, the original will have the posture towards it that it has towards fiat |
21:58 |
danielpbarron |
!up Cogburn |
21:58 |
danielpbarron |
get in the WoT would ya |
21:58 |
Cogburn |
No |
21:58 |
Cogburn |
Hehe |
21:58 |
Cogburn |
I truly hope MP is interested in this because if he wanted to compete with 21.co I would be very down to help. |
21:59 |
danielpbarron |
if you want to help, the first step is getting in the WoT |
21:59 |
trinque |
Cogburn: ...sounds like a great reason to register so that you may retain voice and discuss that with him |
21:59 |
danielpbarron |
that is no optional |
21:59 |
danielpbarron |
Cogburn, http://www.contravex.com/2014/03/17/irc-yeshiva/ |
21:59 |
assbot |
IRC Yeshiva | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCpgkR ) |
22:00 |
Cogburn |
aww that's really cute |
22:01 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13817 @ 0.00027026 = 3.7342 BTC [+] |
22:01 |
BingoBoingo |
Cogburn: As someone else from the borderlands between the middle west and the middle south of the US I swear the WoT doesn't hurt that much |
22:01 |
Cogburn |
However I'm already 32 degree freemason, so thank you but no thank you |
22:02 |
trinque |
^ cold mothafucka |
22:03 |
Cogburn |
You know the WoT is basically forensic evidence, right? |
22:03 |
Cogburn |
You sacrifice anonymity? |
22:03 |
danielpbarron |
lol. |
22:03 |
Cogburn |
I'm okay with just a quick visit. |
22:04 |
BingoBoingo |
<Cogburn> You sacrifice anonymity? << You also gain insurance |
22:04 |
Cogburn |
For what? People come to my coffee house from bitcoin every few months. |
22:04 |
trinque |
no one connected to the internet on any device that exists has anonymity |
22:04 |
Cogburn |
You're welcome, too |
22:04 |
danielpbarron |
anonymity is overrated, and it isn't for the poor anyway |
22:04 |
BingoBoingo |
Cogburn: Did you not see mircea_popescu's insurance policy against Obola seizures? |
22:05 |
Cogburn |
anonymity is a choice |
22:05 |
danielpbarron |
and nobody is forcing you to register your slave name |
22:05 |
BingoBoingo |
Cogburn: I mean you did Changetip ISIS... |
22:05 |
trinque |
loooooool |
22:05 |
Cogburn |
hahahaha |
22:07 |
BingoBoingo |
Cogburn: Of all people you might have an interest in sticking your head out here from time to time and getting friendly with people. |
22:07 |
BingoBoingo |
!b 4 |
22:07 |
assbot |
Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1Y027Q5.txt ) |
22:08 |
asciilifeform |
lol what even is this. |
22:08 |
danielpbarron |
some guy who thinks he is a big name in bitcoin but needs to acknowledge that he is currently a nobody in the realm that counts |
22:09 |
asciilifeform |
<nubbins`> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=xEsMZtmE << this is actually -correct- behaviour - barfs instead of pulling in system's ssl headers |
22:09 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1DCr4un ) |
22:09 |
BingoBoingo |
<asciilifeform> lol what even is this. << Rooster Cogburn's a Marshall on the altcoin wild west |
22:09 |
Cogburn |
I am very friendly. I was invited and I showed up. |
22:09 |
Cogburn |
I do have things to do |
22:09 |
asciilifeform |
<nubbins`> simply doing this manually and re-running auto.sh brings me back to... uint32_t ... << aaaaand this is where my patch in turn b0rks the thing. 'the doctor cured the patient's ear, but did poke out an eye, i fear' |
22:09 |
Cogburn |
There's always twitter |
22:10 |
funkenstein_ |
thanks for stopping by |
22:10 |
asciilifeform |
'Romanian cryptographer Mircea Popescu...' << l0l |
22:10 |
Cogburn |
it's a pleasure. i'm glad i did. i didn't realize that people thought i hated MP or something. I don't hate anyone. Life is too short. |
22:10 |
BingoBoingo |
<Cogburn> There's always twitter << Stop by again. Just remember on Twitter danielpbarron tends to bite harder than here. |
22:11 |
asciilifeform |
Cogburn: where do you know (?) mircea_popescu from ? |
22:11 |
Cogburn |
being critical isn't hate. i'm not above being criticized. I do and say dumb shit like anyone does. I'm also kinda nuts. |
22:11 |
cazalla |
Cogburn, it's your friend who gave such an impression, not us |
22:11 |
Cogburn |
shut happens |
22:11 |
Cogburn |
*shit |
22:11 |
danielpbarron |
when condensing thoughts into 140 characters i tend to chop out the nice sounding bits leaving only the necessary harsh words |
22:11 |
Cogburn |
twitter is like conversation in haiku |
22:12 |
trinque |
Cogburn: I'm still waiting on an elaboration of this disagreement |
22:12 |
Cogburn |
MP and I had a little row at the end of 2013 and I think that's where it stemmed from |
22:12 |
asciilifeform |
<Cogburn> pun intended? what is bitcoin if not the core reference client? << actually Cogburn is right. it very much -is- the reference client. which lives here: http://therealbitcoin.org |
22:12 |
assbot |
..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CBlXID ) |
22:12 |
Cogburn |
I literally cannot remember the context |
22:12 |
Cogburn |
I have no idea what we were talking about |
22:13 |
danielpbarron |
when in doubt, check the log -> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-04-2015#1085254 |
22:13 |
assbot |
Logged on 03-04-2015 01:30:49; Cogburn: we disagree. that's not hate. |
22:13 |
asciilifeform |
but could not remember what disagreed about ? |
22:13 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25800 @ 0.00027 = 6.966 BTC [-] |
22:13 |
BingoBoingo |
!s Bryce |
22:13 |
assbot |
5 results for 'Bryce' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=Bryce |
22:13 |
Cogburn |
i remember the disagreement. there was someone else in it too... i can't remember |
22:14 |
BingoBoingo |
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-02-2014#533483 |
22:14 |
assbot |
Logged on 26-02-2014 21:09:12; mircea_popescu: anyone know a certain Bryce Weiner ? |
22:14 |
Cogburn |
i just don't remember what it was about. some esoteric point of anarcho capitalism or some such. |
22:14 |
Cogburn |
awww |
22:14 |
Cogburn |
<3 |
22:14 |
BingoBoingo |
Things happen, hopefully people learn |
22:15 |
asciilifeform |
<Cogburn> You know the WoT is basically forensic evidence, right? << it's more of a signed confession than 'forensic' anything. like the american 'declaration of independence.' 'we hang together or hang separately,' etc. |
22:15 |
Cogburn |
fair |
22:15 |
Cogburn |
I'll consider it. |
22:16 |
Cogburn |
I hadn't seen it expressed that way before |
22:16 |
asciilifeform |
<Cogburn> that means all those buddies in palo alto that everyone uses will fork to that chain << have you ever seen a tram in the third world ? |
22:16 |
asciilifeform |
or a train |
22:16 |
asciilifeform |
notice all the folks hanging off the sides, on the roof ? |
22:17 |
asciilifeform |
now, are they 'passengers' ? |
22:17 |
Cogburn |
Let's assume my RIAA project is real. Let's assume it happens, and partners with TIDAL for content provision. If 1,000,000 people listen to 3 minute songs for 1 hour, that's 3,000,000+ TX per block in microtransactions. |
22:18 |
asciilifeform |
and, do the folks -inside- - who paid for their tickets - need them for anything? does the train need them ? |
22:18 |
Cogburn |
I understand your analogy better than you think. |
22:18 |
asciilifeform |
Cogburn: there are more lucrative ways to fleece idiots, you know |
22:19 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31638 @ 0.00027 = 8.5423 BTC [-] |
22:19 |
asciilifeform |
Cogburn: RIAA project << i for one would only pay even a penny for something riaa-related if it somehow -takes away- at least the same penny from riaa et al. |
| |
↖ |
22:19 |
asciilifeform |
and am not alone in this. |
22:20 |
asciilifeform |
especially if the sum gets subtracted in human flesh. |
22:20 |
funkenstein_ |
george clinton would agree |
22:20 |
Cogburn |
I understand. I also appreciate where it is that I say these things. |
22:20 |
Cogburn |
This is not what I would call a "receptive audience" to my idea. |
22:20 |
Cogburn |
When we announce officially, I will come back and AMA |
22:21 |
mod6 |
asciilifeform: so, If I wanna play around, I should try gxemul before qemu? |
22:21 |
asciilifeform |
the other thing is the political nuance here. when you do business with riaa etc. you are banking that 2025 will contain a world where riaa and the usg it is an affiliate of - are still in business |
| |
↖ |
22:21 |
asciilifeform |
instead of residing in extermination camps. |
22:22 |
Cogburn |
I think that RIAA is tired of getting fucked by new technology and drank their own koolaid. |
22:22 |
Cogburn |
I could be wrong. |
22:22 |
funkenstein_ |
musicians are also tired of getting fucked by the riaa |
22:22 |
Cogburn |
everyone is tired of getting fucked |
22:22 |
Cogburn |
that's kinda the point |
22:22 |
funkenstein_ |
lol |
22:22 |
Cogburn |
we can fix that |
22:23 |
Cogburn |
that's what my project aims to do |
22:23 |
* |
BingoBoingo impressed there is so much lag between axe time and sword time |
22:23 |
asciilifeform |
Cogburn: from what i read so far, it seems like your 'fix' still involves armed thugs threatening murder to create a 'market.' |
22:23 |
Cogburn |
if things are going to change, we first have to stop getting fuced |
22:23 |
Cogburn |
*fucked |
22:23 |
Cogburn |
stop fucking over each other |
22:23 |
Cogburn |
then things just change on their own |
22:23 |
Cogburn |
nice and easy |
22:24 |
asciilifeform |
pass the lsd plz. |
22:24 |
trinque |
like that time in history where things went nice and easy |
22:24 |
Cogburn |
Rome |
22:24 |
Cogburn |
Say what you want, it fucking worked. |
22:24 |
danielpbarron |
ah, so you are also in favor of slavery? |
22:25 |
asciilifeform |
Cogburn: worked -when- ? |
22:25 |
Cogburn |
how's your paycheck? |
22:25 |
Cogburn |
are you self employed? |
22:25 |
asciilifeform |
Cogburn: please specify -when- rome 'worked' |
22:25 |
Cogburn |
don't talk to me of slavery if you are paid a wage |
22:25 |
danielpbarron |
i am in favor of slavery |
22:25 |
BingoBoingo |
Garret Kierns for the record https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=58893 |
22:25 |
assbot |
View the profile of Surf Capital Management ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCutJp ) |
22:25 |
Cogburn |
slavery in our time is a choice |
22:26 |
Cogburn |
i'm okay with that, so long as there is a choice |
22:26 |
danielpbarron |
it's always a choice.. between doing as your master says or being beaten |
22:26 |
danielpbarron |
or starving to death in the wilderness |
22:26 |
Cogburn |
I appreciate some people just don't want to deal with some shit. That doesn't make them bad. |
22:27 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28500 @ 0.00027 = 7.695 BTC [-] |
22:27 |
trinque |
I think ultimately people will choose whatever gives them the best life, and the sad current condition is that this is what they've chosen, because this is all they can see. |
22:28 |
Cogburn |
I think you're right. |
22:28 |
trinque |
now, how do you demonstrate that there's a different way of being, defining the world, etc |
22:28 |
danielpbarron |
slavery isn't the problem with the current state of affairs; it's this mentality of "i should get to eat while also talking back to my master" that has to go |
22:28 |
trinque |
many ways, probably. but I think it's naive to think that transition happens all nice and easy like |
22:29 |
asciilifeform |
!up Cogburn |
22:29 |
Cogburn |
Thank you |
22:29 |
Cogburn |
I think those of us who get this blockchain bitcoin magic internet money bullshit have the opportunity to demonstrate and lead by example. Quite frankly IDGAF if MP is crazy or I disagree. I think he's doing it right. I think he knows he's doing it right, too :) |
22:30 |
Cogburn |
It's a tool that provides an opportunity to do something truly different with the world. To take advantage, we must be different. |
22:31 |
asciilifeform |
Cogburn: i'm rather curious re: what you believe mircea_popescu is doing. 'right' or otherwise. |
22:31 |
Cogburn |
Leading by example. |
22:31 |
Cogburn |
"This is my way. Like, don't like, DGAF." |
22:31 |
Cogburn |
A choice. |
22:31 |
asciilifeform |
Cogburn: and which 'way' is that ? |
22:31 |
asciilifeform |
i mean, what does it concretely mean, in your mind |
22:32 |
Cogburn |
Dunno. Not my problem. I know he has one. I know he's passionate about it. That's what I think is important. The rest is how history will remember our efforts. |
22:33 |
asciilifeform |
let's say i said 'i think dijkstra was doing it right.' that would imply that i am in favour of structured programming, against the use of 'goto', and in favour of 99.999% of programming students being flunked and similar fraction of the practitioners of that profession - being fired. |
22:33 |
asciilifeform |
if i say that i -disagree- with dijkstra - then i do not believe these things. |
22:33 |
Cogburn |
I'm an order out of chaos sort of guy. |
22:33 |
Cogburn |
I see what's going on. No issues from me. |
22:33 |
mircea_popescu |
dude who the hell raped the logs. |
22:33 |
asciilifeform |
Cogburn: are you able to describe even one of the concepts you agree or disagree with mircea_popescu about? or do you just dislike his beard ? |
22:34 |
asciilifeform |
am i talking to a perl script ? |
22:34 |
asciilifeform |
late 4/1 joke ? |
22:34 |
mircea_popescu |
btw, anyone ever got rms' new autoreply ? the one where he goes "i'm on a 48 hour delay like mpex" ? |
22:35 |
BingoBoingo |
mircea_popescu: Bryce showed up |
22:35 |
mircea_popescu |
who ? |
22:35 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: rms' autoreply << never got, but the 48 hour thing is not, afaik, new. he has someone read the mail and pass it on (or not) |
22:35 |
BingoBoingo |
!s Bryce |
22:35 |
assbot |
5 results for 'Bryce' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=Bryce |
22:35 |
Cogburn |
Hahahah we had a twitter fight a year ago and people think i hate you |
22:36 |
asciilifeform |
Cogburn: so was it the beard ? or an actual position ? |
22:36 |
Cogburn |
I apparently did an interview with a blogger antagonistic to you and I wanted to clarify any guilt by association |
22:36 |
Cogburn |
Okay. I did not ever think that bitcoin would outperform BH. |
22:36 |
mircea_popescu |
interview ? who for ? wut ? |
22:37 |
BingoBoingo |
mircea_popescu: With Surf Captial Management kid |
22:38 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084140 << magically, i have never seen any of this irl |
22:38 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 14:59:47; asciilifeform: what a crock of shit! |
22:38 |
mircea_popescu |
where is this thing used by millions ? |
22:38 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: 'used' has a very peculiar meaning here |
22:39 |
asciilifeform |
sorta like high fructose syrup is 'used' |
22:39 |
danielpbarron |
cazalla, Patch.com reports the arrest of a Massachusetts man who sort to purchase a firearm << should be "sought to purchase" ? |
22:39 |
asciilifeform |
as in, fed to unsuspecting bipedal cattle |
22:39 |
cazalla |
danielpbarron, ty |
22:39 |
mircea_popescu |
but i never seen one. |
22:39 |
mircea_popescu |
how does it even work, you hash the "public key" and then multiply it with something ? sorta halfass rsa ? |
22:39 |
cazalla |
<Cogburn> Hahahah we had a twitter fight a year ago and people think i hate you <<< not people, your friend from coinwhatever website |
22:40 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: since it isn't an actual cryptosystem, you will never -see- it. instead, the bank account of that clown and his university 'sees' the royalties from idiot usg affiliates proclaiming to 'use' it. |
22:40 |
mircea_popescu |
ah one of those. mkay. |
22:40 |
asciilifeform |
http://www.voltage.com/technology/identity-based-encryption << him |
| |
↖ |
22:40 |
assbot |
Identity-Based Encryption (IBE), Boneh-Franklin Algorithm, Private Key Generation, Key Certificates, Cryptography Methods | Voltage Security ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCxycx ) |
22:40 |
mircea_popescu |
not that the idea is without merit. |
22:40 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21184 @ 0.00027029 = 5.7258 BTC [+] {2} |
22:41 |
asciilifeform |
1) idiot generates a 'public key' by his email, or name, being hashed |
22:41 |
mircea_popescu |
any random string being hashable, any random string could be used as a pubkey, in principle. may take some work to mine a usable privkey to go with it, but... |
22:41 |
asciilifeform |
2) usg generates a private key to 'go with' the public |
22:41 |
asciilifeform |
by virtue of the hash being malleable |
22:41 |
asciilifeform |
then they live happily ever after |
22:41 |
asciilifeform |
in buttfuck embrace |
22:41 |
mircea_popescu |
lol how is this encryption |
22:42 |
asciilifeform |
same way american 'food' is food |
22:42 |
mircea_popescu |
no but i mean for srs. this could actually be done correctly |
22:42 |
mircea_popescu |
drive them out of market. |
22:42 |
asciilifeform |
'encryption-flavoured extruded product' |
22:42 |
mircea_popescu |
(yeah yeah i know, as if) |
22:42 |
asciilifeform |
correctly?! |
22:42 |
mircea_popescu |
why couldn't i have arbitrary pubkey ? |
22:42 |
asciilifeform |
you can right now |
22:42 |
mircea_popescu |
exactly. |
22:43 |
asciilifeform |
e.g. 'vanitygen' |
22:43 |
mircea_popescu |
prolly the bruteforce approach doesn't deliver 100%. |
22:44 |
asciilifeform |
but the asymmetry is required for honest crypto. i.e. if mr luser can determine a privkey to go with luser@luserdom.com than so can you and i |
22:44 |
mircea_popescu |
hm |
22:45 |
mircea_popescu |
i suppose you're right - this service existing is sufficient prooof what it's serving isn't crypto. |
22:45 |
asciilifeform |
it's a 'keybase'. |
22:45 |
asciilifeform |
for all i know, 'keybase' is a licensee |
22:45 |
mircea_popescu |
lol |
22:45 |
asciilifeform |
i suppose one can patent a chumpatron. |
22:45 |
mircea_popescu |
gotta spend that "seed money" somehow. |
22:46 |
asciilifeform |
'scheme for relieving idiots of their...' |
22:47 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084166 << no, implication is "our readership is moronic" |
22:47 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 15:06:45; asciilifeform: What You Need to Know About the Unsealed Silk Road Docket << i do so hate these 'what you need to know' titles. implication is that no serious person would need to know anything else |
22:47 |
asciilifeform |
i haven't seen anything as insulting to the intelligence of the reader as 'voltage security co.' in many years. |
22:47 |
asciilifeform |
because, possibly, the flavour of being targeted at folks who go in for cryptological maths, rather than garden-variety schmucks |
22:48 |
mircea_popescu |
i suppose it's targeted at folks who think the usg is a good idea and windows an operating system. |
22:48 |
asciilifeform |
it's one thing to pitch 'proof that 1=2' to third-grade children, another - to maths grad students |
22:48 |
mircea_popescu |
depends. stanford grads prolly buy it. |
22:48 |
mircea_popescu |
if mit grads anything to go by. |
22:49 |
asciilifeform |
on the flip side, it gives an almost p.t. barnum-esque air of loud, profanely farting cynical hucksterism. nostalgic. |
22:49 |
asciilifeform |
sorta the same feeling i used to get when i was a regular reader of 'secret' forums for spammers |
22:49 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084204 << if you recall, that was taken off because that's how sa owned the forum back during mtgox 1 cent days |
22:49 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 15:27:23; nubbins`: wow, the latest DDOS attack against the forum seems to have reinstated the ability to change/add avatars |
22:50 |
mircea_popescu |
so go ahead, sql inject it. |
22:50 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform those forums... sorta tardstalk before the bitcoin. |
22:51 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00027 = 3.699 BTC [-] |
22:51 |
asciilifeform |
aha. they even had own 'spamcoins' (using - now, long-dead - centralized spam-money services) |
22:51 |
mircea_popescu |
people are generally stupid in the same ways. |
22:51 |
asciilifeform |
it is rare to see an entirely novel stupid invented. |
22:52 |
mircea_popescu |
kinda why you'd expect governments to do better than they are, really. |
22:53 |
asciilifeform |
incidentally, one idea for writersey folks - taxonomy of the meaningfully-different forms of bad crypto. |
22:53 |
pete_dushenski |
token "hey look it's pete" scoop: http://www.contravex.com/2015/04/02/mean-streets/ |
22:53 |
assbot |
Mean Streets. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCAeH8 ) |
22:53 |
asciilifeform |
https://craphound.com/spamsolutions.txt << based possibly on this. or in essay form |
22:53 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1DCAg1J ) |
22:54 |
mircea_popescu |
definite flavour of malus enumeratio |
22:54 |
asciilifeform |
not as a serious guide for humans ! |
22:54 |
asciilifeform |
as a massage. |
22:54 |
asciilifeform |
jjust like spamsolutions.txt is not a textbook |
22:55 |
asciilifeform |
enumerations of fallacies - and especially of scams - are not useless |
22:55 |
asciilifeform |
even if there is a universe full of falsehood. as pointed out, stupidity cuts into equivalence classes. |
22:56 |
mircea_popescu |
( ) Extreme profitability of spam << i take it this was 2000ish ? |
22:56 |
asciilifeform |
earlier. |
22:56 |
mircea_popescu |
myeah. meanwhile that problem took care of itself. |
22:56 |
asciilifeform |
iirc written no later than '97 |
22:57 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084246 << wait. wut ?! |
22:57 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 15:59:45; thestringpuller: no. i'm going to have to cancel for family reasons related to finance |
22:58 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084266 << i don't think this will work. |
22:58 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 16:06:28; asciilifeform: nor should nubbins`, or ben_vulpes, or the rest. |
22:59 |
mircea_popescu |
conceivably this will come down to "use so and so, version no later than X, and you will have to either not use sound or use one of these sound cards" |
22:59 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: or the other thing i suggested |
22:59 |
BingoBoingo |
!up Cogburn |
22:59 |
mircea_popescu |
what, "posix" ? that's not a thing |
22:59 |
asciilifeform |
it being, what folks do in school. emulate a machine that is described on half a sheet of paper |
23:00 |
asciilifeform |
with instruction set such-and-such, this much ram, etc. |
23:00 |
asciilifeform |
(see rest of thread) |
23:00 |
mircea_popescu |
emulators are seriously a very bad idea for this. |
23:00 |
Cogburn |
thank, you but you need not keep voicing me. I'll consider the invitation for the WoT. Glad to clear some things up. Have a great night. |
23:00 |
mircea_popescu |
i can appreciate the ... spherical chicken appeal. |
23:00 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: i do this in life. if you have a reasonably-fast computer, it is tolerable. |
23:01 |
asciilifeform |
now this'd be for -builds- |
23:01 |
asciilifeform |
not for running bitcoind -in-. |
23:01 |
mircea_popescu |
it's a bad idea. |
23:01 |
asciilifeform |
it is. |
23:01 |
mircea_popescu |
you're fighting shit with a taller tower. of shit. |
23:01 |
asciilifeform |
but no one has suggested a good idea. |
23:01 |
mircea_popescu |
how about debian sarge ? |
23:02 |
asciilifeform |
can i re-create it ? |
23:02 |
asciilifeform |
without downloading bins |
23:02 |
mircea_popescu |
3.x |
23:02 |
mircea_popescu |
i think you should STILL be able to yes. |
23:02 |
mircea_popescu |
but back in 2005, definitely. |
23:02 |
mircea_popescu |
!up E8888____ |
23:02 |
asciilifeform |
i mean, with my existing compilers. |
23:02 |
mircea_popescu |
with its own. it's a whole complete universe. |
23:02 |
asciilifeform |
aha so i gotta download bins |
23:02 |
mircea_popescu |
not sure about yours, mebbe worth a shit |
23:02 |
asciilifeform |
ick. |
23:03 |
mircea_popescu |
shot* |
23:03 |
asciilifeform |
besides we had someone try specifically it - ben_vulpes ? |
23:03 |
mircea_popescu |
we did / |
23:03 |
asciilifeform |
and turned out that it has a lying gcc |
23:03 |
mircea_popescu |
no ? |
23:03 |
asciilifeform |
which includes a type not defined in the src. |
23:03 |
asciilifeform |
(see yesterday's zoological find) |
23:04 |
BingoBoingo |
http://www.gomerblog.com/2015/04/hospitalist-becomes-own-endless-loop/ |
23:04 |
assbot |
Hospitalist Becomes Own Endless Loop | GomerBlog ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCCpKV ) |
23:04 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084286 << this is a correct approach, the problem seems to be however that compilers don't work properly. |
23:04 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 16:09:47; mod6: Ok, so say that you have installed via offical docs, bla bla bla. Ok, then our release doesn't work. But we need to fix defects, and I refuse to have this happen going forward. So we need something repeatable. |
23:04 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform i wasn't aware that was on deb sarge. |
23:04 |
asciilifeform |
ben_vulpes awake ? |
23:04 |
asciilifeform |
ben_vulpes: what did you use ? |
23:05 |
BingoBoingo |
It was all very surreal. The nurse told me my patient had arrived on the ward. I told her I was the patient. She apparently thought I was making an existential statement and replied arent we all just the sum of our patients and our patience. I know, it doesnt make any sense to me either now, but at the time it was profound, because, you know, dilaudid. |
23:05 |
asciilifeform |
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-04-2015#1082482 |
23:05 |
assbot |
Logged on 01-04-2015 19:08:25; ben_vulpes: ascii_field, nubbins`: debian 6.0.10 |
23:05 |
mircea_popescu |
that is not sarge. |
23:05 |
* |
asciilifeform consults table |
23:05 |
mircea_popescu |
that is 3 major revisions later. looks like modern. |
23:05 |
asciilifeform |
aha. |
23:06 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: be so kind as to try the build on one of your debians ? |
23:06 |
asciilifeform |
untar and ./auto.sh |
23:06 |
mircea_popescu |
i didn't take any across the ocean ;/ |
23:06 |
asciilifeform |
damn. |
23:06 |
mircea_popescu |
well how the fuck was i to know a year later ima be all the way up in thompsoncpp |
23:07 |
mircea_popescu |
but yes, the execration has occured to me a number of times. |
23:07 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: i once seriously toyed with the idea of building with borland cpp 3 |
23:07 |
asciilifeform |
you know, -that- one |
23:07 |
mircea_popescu |
then again if THAT didn't work it wouldn't surprise me. |
23:07 |
asciilifeform |
http://borlandc.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Screenshot1.png |
23:07 |
assbot |
... ( http://bit.ly/1HpoWoM ) |
23:08 |
asciilifeform |
i still miss that thing. |
23:08 |
mircea_popescu |
yes i had it, my f9 was illegible |
23:08 |
asciilifeform |
aha |
23:08 |
mircea_popescu |
note btw your ss is in romanian. |
23:08 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32427 @ 0.00027 = 8.7553 BTC [-] |
23:08 |
asciilifeform |
unsurprisingly |
23:08 |
Adlai |
BingoBoingo: no, the best part: McSwagger was awakened from a deep sleep by his pager, only to find out that he was being called by his own nurse, apparently because he needed something for sleep |
23:09 |
BingoBoingo |
lol |
23:11 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084315 << you're more than welcome to play with an emulator if you wish to broaden your horizon, but it is broadly inadequate for what we're trying to do here. |
23:11 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 16:16:41; nubbins`: so maybe we can start there |
23:11 |
* |
pete_dushenski reading logs, smacked with similarities between weiner / cogburn and charlie from mean streets |
23:11 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: the problem is that the pc architecture (as a standard that you can hard-hold a vendor to) is dead. |
23:12 |
asciilifeform |
e.g., i literally can't buy my main pc again. |
23:12 |
mircea_popescu |
this is a problem. |
23:12 |
pete_dushenski |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFWV-mfMdw8 << if this be the same weiner that keeps derping with seamonster |
23:12 |
assbot |
Bitcoin Chat With Crypto Mogul Bryce Weiner! - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1HppT0m ) |
23:12 |
asciilifeform |
possibly, very slowly, out of antiquarian collectible parts. |
23:12 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25155 @ 0.00027 = 6.7919 BTC [-] |
23:12 |
asciilifeform |
of fuck knows what provenance. |
23:12 |
mircea_popescu |
but pretending like magic works isn't a solution to it. |
23:12 |
asciilifeform |
magic? |
23:12 |
mircea_popescu |
yes. |
23:13 |
mircea_popescu |
look, qemu is essentially a hypervisor. |
23:13 |
asciilifeform |
nope. |
23:13 |
mircea_popescu |
if hypervisors fixed bad osen microsoft'd have been long fixed. |
23:13 |
asciilifeform |
when used as classical qemu (with accelerator) there is no hypervisor |
23:13 |
asciilifeform |
can emulate pc on vax |
23:13 |
asciilifeform |
or vax on pc |
23:13 |
scoopbot |
New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/04/federal-agent-sells-firearms-via-darknet-market/ |
23:14 |
asciilifeform |
hypervisor is a very other animal, where certain instructions are emulated ('sensitive' ring0 ones) while most execute naked. |
23:14 |
mircea_popescu |
but only provided the underlying os behaves. |
23:14 |
asciilifeform |
popular hypervisor: vmware |
23:14 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: we have a confusion of terminology here. an emulator is, for instance, 'zsnes' - popular 'super nintendo' emul |
23:14 |
asciilifeform |
works on soviet 'elbrus' as well as american '486' |
23:15 |
mircea_popescu |
yes. |
23:15 |
asciilifeform |
and regardless of what the nintendo proggy does, cannot crash the elbrus |
23:15 |
mircea_popescu |
so far this is a hypervisor. |
23:15 |
asciilifeform |
because we are essentially interpreting the snes instructions |
23:15 |
asciilifeform |
nope. |
23:15 |
asciilifeform |
hypervisor has a specific meaning |
23:15 |
mircea_popescu |
"works on another machine. check. client can't crash kernel. check" |
23:16 |
mircea_popescu |
yes. that special meaning is "runs vms" |
23:16 |
asciilifeform |
actually the rub with hypervisor is that the 'guest' -can- affect the 'host' quite often. |
23:16 |
mircea_popescu |
but this because hypervisor is badly implemented. |
23:16 |
BingoBoingo |
pete_dushenski: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article17061476.html |
23:16 |
assbot |
Teen son of Canadian Consul General arrested after brother killed in drug deal | Miami Herald Miami Herald ... ( http://bit.ly/1HpqDCK ) |
23:17 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: the short version of the difference is that a 'hypervisor' emulates -certain- instructions, that are understood to modify the global state of the machine in ways which would allow the guest os to monopolize the hardware (e.g., write a block to the disk at index I) whereas an emulator emulates -all- instructions executed by the guest |
23:18 |
pete_dushenski |
BingoBoingo: how stupid and ballsy are these consul's kids that they "planned to rob the drug dealers " |
23:18 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform a minor point, but anyway. |
23:18 |
pete_dushenski |
why can't they just buy coke from a classmate like normal kids of consuls ? |
23:18 |
BingoBoingo |
pete_dushenski: I dunno, what's going on in the Canadia |
23:18 |
asciilifeform |
very major point in practice |
23:18 |
mircea_popescu |
pete_dushenski "The teens are the sons of Roxanne Dubé, who only recently assumed the role of consul general in Miami. A former Fulbright scholar, she has extensive diplomatic experience, having worked as an aide in Parliament and as the ambassador to Zimbabwe." |
23:18 |
asciilifeform |
hypervisor requires host and guest architectures to be same. |
23:18 |
mircea_popescu |
and there you have your problem. |
23:18 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform notrly. |
23:19 |
asciilifeform |
emulator can be of anything you like, whether the computer from 'apollo' space probe, or one that i made up for the occasion. |
23:19 |
pete_dushenski |
BingoBoingo: not that anything does, but "Wabafiyebazu" isn't that canadian |
23:19 |
mircea_popescu |
plenty of 32 bit run on 64 bit that way for instance. |
23:19 |
asciilifeform |
32 is subset |
23:19 |
pete_dushenski |
s/does/is |
23:19 |
BingoBoingo |
pete_dushenski: Is Rob Ford contagious? |
23:19 |
asciilifeform |
x86_64 contains specific provisions for running a process in 'short' (x86) mode |
23:20 |
pete_dushenski |
BingoBoingo: you're closer to derpbama than i to ford ;) |
23:20 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform anyway, granted, it's "a better hypervisor". still runs on another os. |
23:20 |
BingoBoingo |
pete_dushenski: I'll need to get a map to check that |
23:20 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30900 @ 0.0002719 = 8.4017 BTC [+] |
23:21 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: sometimes, you can take the contents of the emulator and - if it exists and you have it in your collection - run it on physical iron |
23:21 |
mircea_popescu |
sometimes i fall asleep on one girl and wake up atop another. |
23:21 |
asciilifeform |
same idea. |
23:22 |
mircea_popescu |
i wouldn't propose this for anyone else. |
23:22 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: incidentally, this is lieke 90% of what i'd want a 2nd pet for |
23:22 |
asciilifeform |
2nd 'stator' |
23:22 |
asciilifeform |
(if fella who turns, is 'rotor') |
| |
↖ |
23:22 |
mircea_popescu |
inb short : it'd be great if emulators as you conceptually represent one existed and work. they do not. what we need is a distro to set in stone. |
23:22 |
asciilifeform |
for fucks sake, they exist and i use them every day for past decade. |
23:23 |
mircea_popescu |
are you running this in an emulator ? |
23:23 |
asciilifeform |
'this' - no |
23:23 |
mircea_popescu |
why not ? |
23:23 |
asciilifeform |
most of what passes for my day job - yes |
23:23 |
asciilifeform |
why not << because no reason to take 25x cpu hit |
23:23 |
mircea_popescu |
most of which isn't bitcoind-like |
23:24 |
mircea_popescu |
suppose your emulated bitcoind forks. what do you do ? |
23:24 |
asciilifeform |
win turing prize. |
23:24 |
mircea_popescu |
yeah well. |
23:24 |
asciilifeform |
spend on burial. |
23:25 |
asciilifeform |
anyway the point, again, would not be to ever -run- bitcoind in the dog-slow emulated linux |
23:25 |
asciilifeform |
but to cross-compile for normal machine (ibmpc, pogo, vax, whatever) |
23:26 |
asciilifeform |
using -known- set of mechanisms. |
23:26 |
asciilifeform |
as in, putting an actual cork in the os/libs/cpu/etc |
23:26 |
mircea_popescu |
but this is essentially naive. because, again, the bitcoind is not the code you read, but the binary that runs. |
23:26 |
asciilifeform |
as in 'here they are and this they shall be in 3015 running on Aldan-XVIII cpu' |
23:27 |
asciilifeform |
yes, the bin. small enough to eventually disasm & read. |
23:27 |
mircea_popescu |
if your binary that runs can not be run by your golden standard |
23:27 |
asciilifeform |
can, why not. |
23:27 |
mircea_popescu |
you essentially have managed to divorce a new academia out of engineering |
23:27 |
mircea_popescu |
this is the last thing we want. |
23:27 |
asciilifeform |
that'd be a monumentally strange thing to do. but not what suggested. |
23:27 |
asciilifeform |
suggested nailing down a machine spec |
23:28 |
mircea_popescu |
it is what'd happen. |
23:28 |
asciilifeform |
that can be replicated |
23:28 |
asciilifeform |
in the way that we are too poor (yes, poor) to do with tangible machine yet. |
23:28 |
mircea_popescu |
how do you distinguish a bug in the os from a bug in the emulator from a bug in the code ? |
23:28 |
asciilifeform |
that's the thing, bug in emulator is catastrophic |
23:28 |
asciilifeform |
but think of it as a skyscraper foundation. there is tremendous pressure on it |
23:28 |
mircea_popescu |
so you want me to pull in more code than the openssl. with worse risk outlook. |
23:28 |
mircea_popescu |
and your explanation is... "Well many people checked it" |
23:29 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: when you dig out your old laptop with 'pentium I', guess what you're pulling in |
23:29 |
asciilifeform |
at least emulator code - i can sit down & read. |
23:29 |
asciilifeform |
try read internals of 'pentium I' |
23:29 |
mircea_popescu |
except your emulator still runs on pentium i in question |
23:29 |
mircea_popescu |
with who knows what dirty hacks everywhere to make it "portabler" |
23:30 |
asciilifeform |
or soviet 'iskra' |
23:30 |
mircea_popescu |
(incidentally, portability worst fucking idea in computing!) |
23:30 |
asciilifeform |
or my mips-on-fpga that exists nowhere but my living room |
23:30 |
asciilifeform |
or, or |
23:30 |
asciilifeform |
or it runs in my head & a pencil |
23:30 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform i can't see this as anything but "adding more bad code". |
23:31 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu is right, but in the same way as a fella taking penicillin is 'swallowing poison' |
23:31 |
asciilifeform |
technically -yes. |
23:31 |
mircea_popescu |
i don't have anything against running test versions of golden-bitcoind on anything, including toasters, gameboys, toasters emulated on gameboys etc |
23:31 |
mircea_popescu |
but that's a different discussion. |
23:31 |
asciilifeform |
ideally i would not even suggest something as terrifyingly unpleasant as - in effect - giving everyone a 486. |
23:31 |
asciilifeform |
which is what emulator amounts to. |
23:32 |
asciilifeform |
but what is the alternative whereby each of us ends up with 1) EXACTLY same machine 2) one we can still get 1000 years later |
23:32 |
asciilifeform |
or even month later. |
23:32 |
mircea_popescu |
no, we've not even come to the discussion where "it's entirely unclear desktop with bitcoind in quemu can even process blocks in 10 minutes each" |
23:32 |
mircea_popescu |
we're still atthe principle of the matter. |
23:32 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: believe or not - can. |
23:32 |
* |
asciilifeform admits he tried |
23:32 |
mircea_popescu |
nothing wrong with trying it. |
23:33 |
asciilifeform |
(on what? modest box circa '07) |
23:34 |
asciilifeform |
but none of it changes the fundamentally bowel-loosening fact of discovering that 1) extant linuxen are incompatible in eldritch ways 2) that impact bitcoind build |
23:35 |
asciilifeform |
and 3) static builds never really worked for items of any complexity |
23:35 |
asciilifeform |
because 4) we have a rusted-solid 'luger' from 1941 |
23:35 |
mircea_popescu |
so far, i'm a) chasing whoever the fuck broke the world by making an idiotic libnss and b) unconvinced the problem's more than that dns bs. |
23:35 |
asciilifeform |
that we tried to fire and somehow surprised |
23:35 |
asciilifeform |
i think we shot (a) in the head |
23:36 |
mircea_popescu |
hm |
23:36 |
mircea_popescu |
? |
23:36 |
asciilifeform |
(dns removal. but one more tumour growth left, the external-ip getter) |
23:36 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084194 |
23:36 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 15:17:35; asciilifeform: my dns seed snip patch never made it in the realease, did it |
23:36 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084387 << ahaha good one. |
23:36 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 16:32:29; nubbins`: but hey. the plural of anecdote is proof, yes? |
23:36 |
mircea_popescu |
asciilifeform THE PROBLEM STILL EXISTS. |
23:37 |
mircea_popescu |
even if not in our code anymore |
23:37 |
asciilifeform |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1085084 |
23:37 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 21:50:57; asciilifeform: bitcoin does not need dns for anythign! |
23:37 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: yes, exists |
23:37 |
mircea_popescu |
well yes. im chasing the culprit. i wish to know who the fuck thought this is a good idea. |
23:38 |
asciilifeform |
i humbly request a copy of r. stevens's 'tcp/ip' bound in his skin. |
23:38 |
asciilifeform |
will also accept pike's 'unix prog. envir.' |
23:38 |
mircea_popescu |
more like it. |
23:39 |
* |
asciilifeform has a list. |
23:39 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084405 << the reason they're doing this is obvious. they want to find bugs. |
23:39 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 16:34:58; jurov: even openbsd prefers to maintain racks of obsolete hardware to running emulators |
23:41 |
asciilifeform |
must add also that the possibility of emulating a reasonably unix-capable computer is relatively recent. in university 'operating systems' courses in '99 folks were still rebooting actual pc, with floppy, 500 times a day. in 2006 - qemu. |
23:41 |
asciilifeform |
(and the occasional floppy/pc) |
23:41 |
asciilifeform |
my brother had one - i had the other |
23:41 |
mircea_popescu |
nobody is disputing it's a very useful tool for many things. |
23:41 |
mircea_popescu |
well, not i at any rate. |
23:43 |
asciilifeform |
mircea_popescu: do you recall the 'specificity of diddling' thread ? |
23:43 |
mircea_popescu |
yes. |
23:43 |
asciilifeform |
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2015#1044648 << for others reading |
23:43 |
assbot |
Logged on 06-03-2015 23:42:12; asciilifeform: for the benefit of n00bs, i will briefly elaborate |
23:44 |
asciilifeform |
related. |
23:46 |
mircea_popescu |
http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084446 << lol wait, they came full circle to the actual goal, usg's own bitcoin ? |
23:46 |
assbot |
Logged on 02-04-2015 16:43:36; asciilifeform: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/urbit-dev/zhMRI9hn4KI/bMYtcr9o5QkJ << unrelated mega-l0l |
23:47 |
mircea_popescu |
"Writing an empty stub is an extremely bad practice and should only be done in desperation, because at the urbit level it produces a system event log that is nonrepeatable, or at least noncompliant with the nock spec. Discrepancies propagate rapidly in any kind of replay. You should be able to turn off all jets and get the same result. This is not practical, but it is practical if you disable everything but a few ba |
23:47 |
mircea_popescu |
sic math functions. |
23:47 |
mircea_popescu |
As a development methodology it's often useful to write hoon that tracks an existing C routine rather than the other way around, but even this needs to be done quite carefully to avoid jet discrepancies." |
23:47 |
mircea_popescu |
i liked that part. |
23:52 |
assbot |
[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.0002719 = 3.2356 BTC [+] |
23:53 |
asciilifeform |
they'll eat their pants before admitting it's 'usg bitcoin' |
23:54 |
mircea_popescu |
well for one thing it's not ok to admit yarvin is orlov in a different color scheme |
23:54 |
asciilifeform |
lol, what color ? |
23:54 |
mircea_popescu |
for the other it's not ok to admit urbit exists strictly because a) yarvin's chumpatron attempt failed just at the time b) usg was looking for a particular tool |
23:54 |
mircea_popescu |
scooped it up cheapo. |
23:55 |
mircea_popescu |
so i guess two can't admits make it a mindblowing evil thing. |
23:55 |
asciilifeform |
close. exists because y dropped out of grad school to play original 'dotcom' chumpamatic |
23:55 |
mircea_popescu |
right. but that's half the story. |
23:55 |
asciilifeform |
and sorta wanted to get back to these two highlights of his youth |
23:56 |
mircea_popescu |
his mantears over bitcoin existing coupled with a certain need for "Expertise" in certain quarters... |
23:56 |
asciilifeform |
i actually read his 'all bitcoin users will be gassed' thing as honest defeatism |
23:56 |
asciilifeform |
but can't even tell now. |
23:57 |
mircea_popescu |
the man is not honest. |
23:57 |
mircea_popescu |
im starting to notice a pattern here, he reads exactly like yak guy, once i read yak guy |
23:57 |
asciilifeform |
brings to mind, |
23:57 |
asciilifeform |
Orwell: Do you really want to see your children grow up Nazis? |
23:57 |
asciilifeform |
The youth: Nonsense! You don't suppose the Germans are going to encourage Fascism in this country, do you? They don't want to breed up a race of warriors to fight against them. Their object will be to turn us into slaves. That's why I'm a pacifist. They'll encourage people like me. |
23:57 |
asciilifeform |
Orwell: And shoot people like me? |
23:57 |
asciilifeform |
The youth: That would be just too bad. |
23:57 |
asciilifeform |
Orwell: But why are you so anxious to remain alive? |
23:58 |
asciilifeform |
The youth: So that I can get on with my work, of course. |
23:58 |
asciilifeform |
( http://orwell.ru/library/articles/As_I_Please/english/eaip_04 ) |
23:58 |
assbot |
George Orwell: As I Please -- 1943 ... ( http://bit.ly/1I9faus ) |
23:58 |
mircea_popescu |
there was a very apt summary in that physicits's criticism. i suppose i should look it up. |
23:58 |
asciilifeform |
mr mold decided that he was anxious to remain alive. i can't really see why. |
23:58 |
mircea_popescu |
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Eliezer_Yudkowsky << lulwut. |
23:58 |
assbot |
Eliezer Yudkowsky - Wikiquote ... ( http://bit.ly/1I9fhWN ) |
23:59 |
mircea_popescu |
hey, does wikiquote have a page of quotes from my cat yet ? |
23:59 |
asciilifeform |
no but almost |
23:59 |
asciilifeform |
i think they have naggum's cat. |
23:59 |
mircea_popescu |
holy shit, "crocker's rules" omfg. http://trilema.com/2014/anonymous-derpage/ |
23:59 |
assbot |
Anonymous derpage pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pBuh84 ) |
23:59 |
mircea_popescu |
it's eerie just how connected stupidity is. |