#trilema | 2015-04-02

... ( http://bit.ly/1al9C2c )

00:05

yeah, bigass 'autotransformer'

00:06

http://imgur.com/zrmHTMR,OzgNDNH#0 << that one

00:06

Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1al9Y8V )

00:06

not same as autotransformer

00:06

relies purely on energy in magnetic field for 'inertia'

00:08

heh even the russian version is a slightly more advanced 'enigma' machine http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/fialka/m125_3/index.htm

00:08

M-125-3 ... ( http://bit.ly/1alarYU )

00:08

all the rotor machines were much alike.

00:09

interestingly, vernam (which we today call 'one time pad') coexisted with all of them

00:09

and to the extent folks used it - correctly - their crypto worked.

00:09

but 'omg11111111111111!1!!11!!11 not convenient!!'

00:09

aye, actual humans must handle keys

00:10

asciilifeform do you have libssl.so, libcrypto.so on your system? (/usr/lib64, perhaps?)

00:10

to the extent they did not use it (and swiss 'cryptoag' etc marketed rotors until late '80s!! and possibly now) - usg and its merry men had their fun with the payload.

00:11

nubbins`: sure

00:11

are they symlinked to .so.1.0.0 like mine are?

00:11

nubbins`: libssl is

00:12

and if you: $ openssl version

00:12

1.01j

00:12

1.0.1j

00:12

why ?

00:12

i mean, it didn't get pulled in to the static build

00:12

just as it was meant -not- to

00:12

that part works.

00:13

hm k

00:13

the attempted ssl was the one included with auto.sh (release)

00:13

it - did not build.

00:13

(see log)

00:13

*

nubbins` sees log

00:13

oh ffs

00:13

*

nubbins` sees log1

00:17

decimation: http://www.dansdata.com/gz039.htm << re: ferroresonators

00:17

Power struggle ... ( http://bit.ly/1CzuL1B )

00:17

http://www.dansdata.com/images/powerconditioner/lidoff1024.jpg << pretty simple.

00:17

... ( http://bit.ly/1CzuM5M )

00:19

yeah it's kinda the magnetic equivalent of a bigass flywheel

00:20

aha.

00:20

more of gigantic pendulum

00:20

if we want an exact analogy

00:20

but yes.

00:22

http://www.dansdata.com/gz083.htm << unrelated but interesting re: ancient 'copy protection'

00:22

Meet the new DRM, same as the old DRM ... ( http://bit.ly/1CzvMa6 )

00:22

' Then, after the tape had been professionally rewound, you could rent it again, if you liked.'

00:25

heh

00:25

that actually sounds pretty effective, assuming the listener didn't have a recorder

00:28

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.00025344 = 5.2209 BTC [-]

00:28

la wik' seems to imply that the "system 3" punch card was the most densely packed card in common use

00:28

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/System_3_punch_card.jpg

00:28

... ( http://bit.ly/1Czx0lA )

00:28

^could hold 64 byte

00:29

you would still need many of those cards to hold a standard gpg key

00:29

evidently not the one featured in the rhyme;

00:30

'He died at the console, / Of hunger and thirst. / Next day he was buried, Face down, nine-edge first. / And the last bug in sight, / An ant passing by, / Saluted his tombstone, / And whispered, Nice try.'

00:30

heh

00:32

one of the reasons why the "PC" was such a success (as in the commodore, etc) was because many universities had taken to putting their computers behind a locked wall

00:32

with strict controls on access

00:33

obviously 'actual people' were not exactly thrilled with the idea of being treated like criminals while calculating

00:34

instrument which costs $maxint - of course locked.

00:34

so there was a hunger to 'own' said machine

00:34

last i checked, i can't waltz in to my local uni and use their mass spectrometer or nmr

00:34

(i asked)

00:34

yeah, similar idea I guess

00:34

but it was made worse because apparently the hippies of the time took to 'attacking' the machines

00:35

because they were seen as a symbol of 'the man'

00:35

decimation: this was not only for computer.

00:36

decimation: my first paying job was at nih. and found it odd that only select few had the clearance to see where the live animals were

00:36

i was told they were under 24/7 heavily armed guard

00:36

underground, behind a tunnel with multiple doors

00:36

but that this had not always been so, and old-timers remembered when you could keep the cages in the lab

00:36

*i found it odd

00:37

yeah because the hippies want to 'set free'

00:39

socialist dumbfuckery is like pollution, it ruins everything

00:40

complicated.

00:40

what was the alternative for these folks?

00:40

i mean, it sounds odd, to ask

00:40

for who, the 'pro-animal' hippie?

00:41

but what -could- they have been doing, that was equally entertaining as setting rabid chimps free ?

00:41

ah. indeed.

00:41

it was yet another generation asked to eat stale doughnuts

00:41

to borrow mr mold's expression

00:41

so they went apeshit when offered chances.

00:41

because still had balls.

00:42

now, for the man who likes physics, maths, etc - it was golden age.

00:42

for instance!

00:43

contrary to popular image of rms, he was - at the time - the very example of a 'straight lace square'

00:43

playing with the 'big iron' at usg expense.

00:43

clean-shaven, even, iirc.

00:43

yeah, the 60's were definitely a golden age of the hard sciences in the us

00:44

many low-hanging fruits were picked

00:44

it is a mistake, to call them low hanging

00:44

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 213700 @ 0.00024903 = 53.2177 BTC [-] {4}

00:44

they could be put on the tree today and would stay unpicked.

00:44

perhaps. it's hard not to see things taught to undergrads as 'not obvious'

00:44

but it's true that they weren't

00:56

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19300 @ 0.00025344 = 4.8914 BTC [+]

00:57

;;ticker

00:57

Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 246.68, Best ask: 246.75, Bid-ask spread: 0.07000, Last trade: 246.75, 24 hour volume: 22636.38523189, 24 hour low: 239.21, 24 hour high: 248.71, 24 hour vwap: None

~ 36 minutes ~

01:33

;;bc,stats

01:33

01:38

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 226900 @ 0.00026234 = 59.5249 BTC [+] {4}

01:47

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 194848 @ 0.00026405 = 51.4496 BTC [+]

01:51

!up bagehot

01:54

bagehot

Hey, thanks for the up

02:03

bagehot

Why do folks here consider bitcoins tradeable for other goods?

02:03

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 261100 @ 0.00025801 = 67.3664 BTC [-] {2}

~ 25 minutes ~

02:29

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 192161 @ 0.00026396 = 50.7228 BTC [+] {3}

02:36

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87059 @ 0.00025743 = 22.4116 BTC [-]

02:37

Bet placed: 3.84713728 BTC for No on "Bitcoin above MtGox $266 high 2 years on" http://bitbet.us/bet/1126/ Odds: 26(Y):74(N) by coin, 56(Y):44(N) by weight. Total bet: 13.22859233 BTC. Current weight: 16,339.

~ 16 minutes ~

02:54

;;later tell bagehot Do you know any better money?

02:54

The operation succeeded.

02:56

Axe time is starting awfully slow, I was expecting more... fluids

03:00

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 85750 @ 0.0002513 = 21.549 BTC [-]

03:11

!up hktud0

03:14

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 109200 @ 0.0002513 = 27.442 BTC [-]

03:18

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65950 @ 0.0002513 = 16.5732 BTC [-]

03:23

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67443 @ 0.00025318 = 17.0752 BTC [+]

03:33

;;ticker

03:33

Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 245.89, Best ask: 245.99, Bid-ask spread: 0.10000, Last trade: 245.78, 24 hour volume: 22946.51481821, 24 hour low: 239.21, 24 hour high: 248.71, 24 hour vwap: None

03:34

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 246950 @ 0.00024837 = 61.335 BTC [-] {4}

03:34

http://trilema.com/2015/the-definitive-sovereign/ < updated, because i can't sleep now, because of this stroke of brilliance.

03:34

The definitive sovereign pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6L2Qg )

03:34

really the similarities are many and varied.

03:37

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083737 < nsa.

03:37

Logged on 02-04-2015 03:26:39; decimation: asciilifeform: one wonders what the openssl authors use as a 'baseline os'

03:37

it's easy when you're on stupid team.

03:37

your shit doesn't have to actually work.

03:39

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083756 << yeah your hole was, to my grief, readily reproduced.

03:39

Logged on 02-04-2015 03:29:10; asciilifeform: ok so nubbins` has what i have.

03:39

once i was done screaming so people could ask questions.

03:40

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083766 << this option is not unlike proving you didn't fuck a goat by proving you impregnated it.

03:40

Logged on 02-04-2015 03:34:34; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu:fork the chain or maintain the historical copy. << third option: make new apparatus, prove idempotence.

03:40

in that "proof of idempotence" has generally been orders of magnitude more successful at proving the proving party has no idea what proving means,

03:40

rather than the intended result.

03:42

also speaking of " dns providers" : http://0pointer.de/lennart/projects/nss-mdns/

03:42

nss-mdns 0.10 ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6LQos )

03:42

"Please note that due to security reasons from this release on the minimal mDNS stack included in nss-mdns (dubbed "legacy") is no longer built by default. Thus, nss-mdns will not work unless Avahi is running!"

03:45

also https://www.openhub.net/accounts/mezcalero if anyone's actually that curious.

03:45

Lennart Poettering : Lennart Poettering - Open Hub ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6M6nd )

03:49

asciilifeform dude how did you dig up the fialka thing.

~ 18 minutes ~

04:08

Bet placed: 2.10372615 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $150 before July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1133/ Odds: 20(Y):80(N) by coin, 21(Y):79(N) by weight. Total bet: 6.08572615 BTC. Current weight: 95,148.

04:12

Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) to drop under $35 before June " http://bitbet.us/bet/1129/ Odds: 10(Y):90(N) by coin, 12(Y):88(N) by weight. Total bet: 12.8656096 BTC. Current weight: 74,132.

04:21

http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/fialka/psu/img/300125/019/full.jpg gotta love that crazy shit.

04:21

... ( http://bit.ly/1GOkKAG )

04:28

asciilifeform and speaking of it : http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/fialka/psu/img/Tempest.png doesn't look like the exceptionally advanced thing the article promised. seems to me the solenoid-driven switching would create so much echo as to make it readily measurable.

04:28

... ( http://bit.ly/1GOlIwW )

04:28

i suppose "works according to what we know how to do" is the one standard of tradecraft.

04:29

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083796 << exactly.

04:29

Logged on 02-04-2015 03:51:47; asciilifeform: i can see this being given to unreliable warsaw pact nations to -amplify- their tempest emanations

04:30

!up asteric

04:30

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083827 i guess i should just read logs lol

04:30

Logged on 02-04-2015 04:00:21; asciilifeform: considering that solenoid is an inductive load, and resistor is - well - resistive.

04:31

why the fuck not put in there... some "carefully chosen" solenoids of the right fucking charge.

04:31

how hard is it to reproduce a coil of wire with... another coil of wire!

04:32

*

BingoBoingo did not expect axe time to offer this much lead to work the whetstone before sword time

04:33

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083849 << dude what the fuck is so very convenient about all the rotor bs i dunno.

04:33

Logged on 02-04-2015 04:09:37; asciilifeform: but 'omg11111111111111!1!!11!!11 not convenient!!'

04:47

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 78350 @ 0.00024829 = 19.4535 BTC [-]

04:56

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060558/ << hory sheit!!

04:56

Jesse James Meets Frankenstein's Daughter (1966) - IMDb ... ( http://bit.ly/1GOpu9w )

04:56

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 233444 @ 0.00024885 = 58.0925 BTC [+] {2}

05:05

"To view a downloaded movie, you double-click it. And then you're watching it. Stick a recent commercial DVD into your player, though, and you'll probably have to sit through lengthy, un-skippable warnings about how dastardly is the piracy in which you did not just engage."

05:06

"if kids continue to not show up for class, the class will continue to get detention!"

05:18

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 127646 @ 0.00025424 = 32.4527 BTC [+] {2}

05:18

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083930 << this seems exceedingly likely, especially with stuff like the "oh open source is more secure because million eyes" million examples fresh in memory.

05:18

Logged on 02-04-2015 04:44:24; asciilifeform: they could be put on the tree today and would stay unpicked.

05:19

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50198 @ 0.00025644 = 12.8728 BTC [+]

05:20

BingoBoingo you not getting enough fluid ? :D

05:32

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 204700 @ 0.00024694 = 50.5486 BTC [-] {2}

05:39

Bet placed: 6.10372615 BTC for No on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) to drop under $35 before June " http://bitbet.us/bet/1129/ Odds: 7(Y):93(N) by coin, 8(Y):92(N) by weight. Total bet: 18.96933575 BTC. Current weight: 74,045.

05:51

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47665 @ 0.00025118 = 11.9725 BTC [+]

06:05

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 180450 @ 0.00024481 = 44.176 BTC [-] {2}

06:10

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 189800 @ 0.00024445 = 46.3966 BTC [-] {2}

06:18

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54150 @ 0.00025118 = 13.6014 BTC [+]

06:29

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72887 @ 0.00025519 = 18.6 BTC [+] {2}

06:35

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 250947 @ 0.00024327 = 61.0479 BTC [-] {4}

06:36

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46753 @ 0.00024238 = 11.332 BTC [-]

~ 40 minutes ~

07:16

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46414 @ 0.00024386 = 11.3185 BTC [+]

07:18

morn

07:23

Apocalyptic

!up neverending

07:26

today's auction-end day :o

07:29

http://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahjeong/2015/04/01/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-unsealed-silk-road-docket/

07:29

What You Need to Know About the Unsealed Silk Road Docket - Forbes ... ( http://bit.ly/1CAOSN1 )

07:29

In April 2014, BitStamp representatives messaged Force, asking him why he was accessing his account through Tor. He responded through the support ticket: “I utilize TOR for privacy. Don’t particularly want NSA looking over my shoulder :)”

07:29

BitStamp management found this message to be, well, incredibly weird.

07:29

yep. INCREDIBLY WEIRD, this. a guy using tor.

07:38

!up menahem

07:39

so i get woken up 3:30am last night by the guy next door POUNDING on the wall

07:39

after a few minutes of this, my doorbell rings, so i go grab a chunk of wood to cave the guy's face in with

07:39

and it's my piece of shit roommate who lost his keys

07:40

because, y'know, if you lost your keys three days ago, you should come home drunk to a locked house at 3:30am

07:40

with no plan

07:42

Adlai

sounds like his plan was "pick a time when nubbins`'s probability density is most concentrated within the home"

07:43

or, since i am generally always home, pick a time when any normal person is precisely in the middle of a night's rest

07:43

*

nubbins` can't wait to reduce the head count in here

07:50

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/dead-dolphin-found-on-roadside-in-bay-roberts-1.3018170

07:50

Dead dolphin found on roadside in Bay Roberts - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1xD1Ivh )

07:52

obligatory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au1AN_MC6Rg

07:52

Dolphin found on public beach in Newfoundland - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1xD2eco )

07:52

Adlai

breaking news: not all interspecies interactions are beneficial for both parties, or even either!

08:01

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/nypd-detective-caught-on-video-berating-uber-driver-reassigned-1.3018889

08:01

NYPD detective caught on video berating Uber driver reassigned - World - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1xD4BMt )

08:02

hahaha man i hate cops.

08:04

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130550 @ 0.00024349 = 31.7876 BTC [-]

08:05

mircea_popescu i guess we're technically two-and-a-half-dogland: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/labradoodle-marketing-fetches-2-500-puppy-price-1.3018419

08:05

Labradoodle marketing fetches $2,500 puppy price - Calgary - CBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1xD5BAe )

~ 17 minutes ~

08:22

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 197550 @ 0.00024212 = 47.8308 BTC [-] {3}

08:29

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82450 @ 0.00024379 = 20.1005 BTC [+] {2}

~ 16 minutes ~

08:45

mornin' nubbins

08:46

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BWGzrhKKi0

08:46

Immortal Technique - Live From New York Footage - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1BTqPGH )

08:53

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 265900 @ 0.00024162 = 64.2468 BTC [-] {3}

08:54

!up diana_coman

08:59

height=309336 vs height=219658

09:02

danielpbarron, what are the height numbers?

09:02

!up smidge

09:16

mike_c

funkenstein_: blockchain sync progress on a SSD vs. 5400 rpm platters.

09:17

mike_c, thank you

~ 17 minutes ~

09:34

I posted obamaz magic decree to my facebook. Quite expectedly, no one cares.

09:34

I feel the cynicism growing inside me

~ 20 minutes ~

09:55

Chillum

obama is magical? I knew it1

09:55

Chillum

!

09:55

muggle controlled by death eaters, news at 11

09:58

http://www.latimes.com/la-oe-ehrenstein19mar19-story.html

09:58

Obama the 'Magic Negro' - LA Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1P2pjel )

10:00

<+lobbes> I posted obamaz magic decree to my facebook. Quite expectedly, no one cares. <<< no one, including you

10:00

Chillum

some sociologists are magical twits

10:00

golly gee, you shared a whole link on bookface?

10:00

YOU ANARCHIST

10:01

yes yes, I deserve that

10:01

put another way: maybe all your bookface friends care just as much as you do

10:01

i.e. they care enough to share a link

10:02

but you did it first, so "*shrug* w/e"

10:02

hmm I see what you mean

10:02

caring != sharing.

10:02

no real action

10:02

not even fake action.

10:02

just 'hey, "be aware"'

10:02

the slightest twitch of a finger.

10:02

yes, and awareness has done wonders so far 8)

10:03

so are the only real options: 1) gtfo 2) wait for the eventual hanging?

10:04

no, but i'll leave the other options for you to figure out

10:04

some things you can't be shown, neh?

10:05

I'd like to believe if I just focus on myself and amass enough wealth I can weasel my way through time

10:05

some things you can't be shown, neh? << agreed. Trial by fire, eh?

10:06

well, i'd like to believe this is all an illusion and i'll eventually wake up, my 16-year-old self, sweating through the mattress in a fever dream

10:06

wait, that would be horrible

10:15

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37376 @ 0.0002408 = 9.0001 BTC [-]

10:25

asciilifeform mod6 ben_vulpes and others: on a side note, auto.sh doesn't put the openssl headers in /ourlibs/

10:27

build failed on gentoo using gcc-4.4.7: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=qhb7ZT3x

10:27

... ( http://bit.ly/1P2udYC )

10:27

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104314 @ 0.0002408 = 25.1188 BTC [-]

10:32

if i manually move the headers over, back to uint32_t errors: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=taiiWaYc

10:32

... ( http://bit.ly/1P2v4bK )

10:33

with both of alf's patches applied: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=7qRa7CnL

10:33

... ( http://bit.ly/1P2vijl )

10:34

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 139750 @ 0.00024073 = 33.642 BTC [-] {3}

10:37

with "-std=c++03" from portatronic patch removed: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=50XwKjsy (precisely the same as before patching)

10:37

... ( http://bit.ly/1P2vXkG )

10:43

power rangers added more int types later like arith_uint256

10:44

but 10.0.1 release no longer has that class

10:44

after renaming all uint32_t to boost::uint32_t: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=D7XGyGna

10:44

... ( http://bit.ly/1IUiEhQ )

10:44

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 180800 @ 0.00024325 = 43.9796 BTC [+] {3}

10:44

after renaming all int32_t to boost::int32_t: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=A2M3kkZL

10:44

... ( http://bit.ly/1IUiOpD )

10:45

"canot find -lssl, -lcrypto"

10:45

*0.10.1

10:45

*cannot

10:47

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083447 <-- looks like you got here

10:47

Logged on 02-04-2015 01:18:00; decimation: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2725255/create-statically-linked-binary-that-uses-getaddrinfo <glibc uses libnss to support a number of different providers for address resolution services. Unfortunately, you cannot statically link libnss, as exactly what providers it loads depends on the local system's configuration.

10:47

http://awards.acm.org/infosys/

10:47

ACM - Infosys Foundation Award in the Computing Sciences - ACM Award ... ( http://bit.ly/1IUjPhm )

10:53

!s libnss

10:53

0 results for 'libnss' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=libnss

10:53

!s nss

10:53

5 results for 'nss' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=nss

10:54

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083738

10:54

Logged on 02-04-2015 03:26:58; nubbins`: "glibc uses libnss to support a number of different providers for address resolution services. Unfortunately, you cannot statically link libnss, as exactly what providers it loads depends on the local system's configuration."

10:54

:D

10:54

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083741

10:54

Logged on 02-04-2015 03:27:23; decimation: nubbins`: no that's a different issue, not critical

10:54

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 124700 @ 0.0002459 = 30.6637 BTC [+]

10:54

http://syssec.rub.de/media/emma/veroeffentlichungen/2015/03/28/COOP-Oakland15.pdf

10:54

... ( http://bit.ly/1P2zcIM )

10:54

yeah, what we need now is a build environment as discussed yesterday. or we really can't move forward.

10:54

i know qemu was bandied about in the past

10:55

!qemu

10:55

er.

10:55

!s qemu

10:55

18 results for 'qemu' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=qemu

10:56

^ read

10:56

are you talking to me?

10:57

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101750 @ 0.00024853 = 25.2879 BTC [+] {3}

10:57

i thought everyone wanted to create a common gentoo configuration.

10:58

anyway, that's the deal. we need something that we can work with; one supported environment, blessed by alf.

10:58

mats, can you summarize the COOP scoop?

10:58

'Boneh, in joint work with Matt Franklin, constructed a novel pairing-based method for identity-based encryption (IBE), whereby a user's public identity, such as an email address, can function as the user's public key. Since then, Boneh's contributions, together with those of others, have shown the power and versatility of pairings, which are now used as a mainstream tool in cryptography. The transfer of pairings from theory t

↖ ↖ ↖

10:58

o practice has been rapid. Organizations now using pairings include healthcare, financial, and insurance institutions. Over a billion IBE-encrypted emails are sent each year.' << ahahahahahaha.

10:58

http://awards.acm.org/award_winners/boneh_4125431.cfm ^ from mats's link

10:58

Dan Boneh - Award Winner ... ( http://bit.ly/1P2A14C )

10:59

'Identity-based encryption is a type of public-key encryption in which any arbitrary string (such as a users email address) can be used as a public key, enabling data to be protected without the need for long, randomly generated keys or certificates. Today, there are numerous standards for IBE based on Bonehs work, including IEEE P1363.3 and several IETF RFCs.' << from the press release.

10:59

what a crock of shit!

10:59

and it has the full blessing of american academia, yes.

11:00

'Dan Boneh is professor of Computer Science and Electrical Engineering at Stanford University, and leads the applied cryptography group there. He has written extensively on cryptography and computer security, publishing more than 150 refereed conference and peer-reviewed journal papers. Boneh served as an editor of ACM Transactions on Internet Technology (TOIT), Journal of the ACM (JACM), and Journal of Cryptology. He has serv

11:00

ed as program chair or general chair for several academic conferences and as member of more than 30 conference program committees.'

11:01

^ now we know what EACH AND EVERY ONE of those institutions, the papers this cheap clown refereed, the conferences he chaired - are worth.

11:01

*

danielpbarron already knew they weren't worth much

11:01

no but this is how it works.

11:01

smells like cryptography as a service

11:02

this is how usg killed -actual- academic crypto

11:02

any wonder they banned shamir from usa?

11:02

!s shamir

11:02

25 results for 'shamir' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=shamir

11:02

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 116052 @ 0.00025208 = 29.2544 BTC [+] {2}

11:03

uh

11:03

you don't generate a public key from an email address, you generate it from a private key

11:03

what's the private key here?

11:03

the fucking email address?

11:04

nubbins i can hold the private key for you don't worry

11:04

k thx

11:04

i'll pm my email password

11:04

you just get it set up

11:04

lol

11:04

<mircea_popescu> in that "proof of idempotence" has generally been orders of magnitude more successful at proving the proving party has no idea what proving means << didn't say it would be easy. or that the existing 'state of the art' is any kind of guide.

11:05

mircea_popescu: ... dude what the fuck is so very convenient about all the rotor bs i dunno << short keys

11:05

ugh i need lunch

11:06

mircea_popescu: does that remind you of arguments in favour of any modern cryptosystem? how about ecdsa, aha

11:06

What You Need to Know About the Unsealed Silk Road Docket << i do so hate these 'what you need to know' titles. implication is that no serious person would need to know anything else

11:07

and -of course- it proclaims 'this malefactor was caught thanks to our glorious know-your-customer crapolade!'

11:09

<nubbins`> because, y'know, if you lost your keys three days ago, you should come home drunk to a locked house at 3:30am ..with no plan << http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-04-2015#1083000 >> what do you suppose i was talking about.

11:09

Logged on 01-04-2015 22:18:14; ascii_field: nubbins`: but even something like living in a dwelling without the company of strangers is a titanically expensive luxury in most of the world

11:09

HAHAHA

11:09

hey, pothing's nerfect.

11:09

anyway i gave said idiot the boot

11:10

he's got til the 30th

11:10

<nubbins`> with "-std=c++03" from portatronic patch removed << might not actually make a difference

11:11

<nubbins`> "canot find -lssl, -lcrypto" << note! it finds the system's headers, like a moron, and builds with them, then notices no local ssl was built (it wasn't)

11:12

nubbins`: he's got til the 30th << so you didn't need the money? or will replace him with a fresh idiot ?

11:12

i think the openssl build has some problems

11:12

asciilifeform his bedroom is being turned into a paper-printing studio

11:12

neato.

11:12

pink eye will make up the rent shortfall

11:12

yeah :D

11:13

'Using 'getaddrinfo' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking' << wtf are we even using getaddrinfo for.

11:15

objdump -t src/obj/nogui/*.o | grep getaddrinfo

11:15

0000000000000000 *UND* 0000000000000000 getaddrinfo

11:15

it's in there all right

11:15

motherfuckers.

11:15

incidentally i tried a non-static build of openssl, auto.sh barfs w/ same error

11:16

nubbins`: which error

11:16

cannot find -lssl, -lcrypto

11:16

because it was given the local ssl as a search path, yes

11:16

of course couldn't find.

11:16

no surprise here

11:17

ahahahaha guess what

11:17

my dns seed snip patch never made it in the realease, did it

11:17

nope

11:17

quite possibly this is where the getaddrinfo crap is from!

11:17

oh ha is that what's using it!

11:21

BingoBoingo: http://cryptome.org/2015/04/ulbricht-227-228.pdf << the unsealed material

11:21

... ( http://bit.ly/1P2EjZM )

11:22

i just can't get over the lulziness of usg proclaiming that stealing/extorting from an outlaw constitutes 'theft of government property'

11:24

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 138238 @ 0.0002428 = 33.5642 BTC [-] {2}

11:25

mats: http://syssec.rub.de/media/emma/veroeffentlichungen/2015/03/28/COOP-Oakland15.pdf << aha. recommended reading for all, quite pertinent.

11:25

... ( http://bit.ly/1BRwE6s )

11:27

wow, the latest DDOS attack against the forum seems to have reinstated the ability to change/add avatars

11:27

;p

11:28

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-32157342

11:28

Kenya Garissa students taken hostage by al-Shabab - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1P2FGYh )

11:29

funkenstein_: read the extract

11:32

*

nubbins` takes this opportunity to make his avatar look meaner

11:33

http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2015/04/truecrypt-report.html

11:33

A Few Thoughts on Cryptographic Engineering: Truecrypt report ... ( http://bit.ly/1P2GLiM )

11:34

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 211200 @ 0.00024533 = 51.8137 BTC [+] {2}

11:36

A problem in Truecrypt is that in some extremely rare circumstances, the Crypto API can fail to properly initialize. When this happens, Truecrypt should barf and catch fire. Instead it silently accepts this failure and continues to generate keys.

11:37

ha

11:37

For example: the most significant issue in the Truecrypt report is a finding related to the Windows version of Truecrypt's random number generator (RNG), which is responsible for generating the keys that encrypt Truecrypt volumes.

11:37

<mod6> [14:57] anyway, that's the deal. we need something that we can work with; one supported environment, blessed by alf. << asciilifeform, what's the One True Build Target for La Serenissima?

11:37

more like Falsecrypt

11:38

gentoo on amd64, but the shit don't work

11:38

if it doesn't work how is it a candidate now?

11:39

whatcha wanna use, windows?

11:40

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 210462 @ 0.00023945 = 50.3951 BTC [-] {2}

11:40

gentoo is ostensibly used by alf because it's the sanest. the fact that bitcoind doesn't compile on it doesn't necessarily mean that the OS is the problem, nor does it mean a turd should be adopted as the OTBT

11:40

but...

11:40

\o/

11:41

i don't know nearly enough about gcc to be of much further use atm

11:41

*

nubbins` is good at figuring things out but is currently in position of "doesn't know what questions to ask"

11:41

tell me about it.

11:43

anyways, we need a build target. one. not the accidental build target of debian 6 that fell out of my archaeology project.

11:43

talk about unexamined assumptions...

11:47

ubuntu!!!

11:48

(context: i was hired to patch android system. had to create nigbuntu lxc container for its monstrous build system)

11:49

oh yeah. i did a continuous integration thinger for an android project recently.

11:50

('here, let me duct tape a bunch of libs together so you get emails when your derps break the cpp compiled into the android code')

11:50

surely my finest work

11:54

heh

11:55

well, alf's not gonna go for anything w/ systemd

11:55

what *has* 0.5.3.1 worked on so far? debian, darwin, that it?

11:57

systemd is the best thing ever

11:57

so fast

11:57

much secure

11:57

ah get out

11:58

rich boy sellin' coin broke niggaz wanna jack this just bought a debian "THROW SOME SYSTEMD's on dat bitch"

11:58

amirite?

11:58

out, you

11:58

thestringpuller: are you coming to con3?

11:59

no. i'm going to have to cancel for family reasons related to finance

11:59

haven't been able to contact cazalla

12:00

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 136300 @ 0.00023901 = 32.5771 BTC [-] {2}

12:00

"It's all fun and games until someone jokes about systemd" lol

12:01

<+nubbins`> what *has* 0.5.3.1 worked on so far? debian, darwin, that it? << what's blowing my mind is why i was able to build just fine on aws Gentoo AMI. Unless it was packed full of stuff in there that we don't want to begin with. Which must be the case.

12:03

here's the build log: http://thebitcoin.foundation/gentoo-x86_32-bitcoind-static.txt

12:03

... ( http://bit.ly/1P2NE3B )

12:03

i know nothing about aws, can you pull an image of that machine down locally?

12:04

mod6 ah 32bit

12:04

tried 64?

12:04

*

nubbins` has a suspicion that this is somehow related to 32bit vs 64bit libs

12:05

yeah, I believe I did. But I can't find a build log for it.

12:05

<ben_vulpes> what's the One True Build Target for La Serenissima? << why asking -me-, l0l

12:05

what if i said 'posix'

12:05

I also seem to recall, and maybe I should dig for it, someone else built for gentoo before anyone was discussing 32bit.

12:05

like... say.. 3-4 weeks ago when we were testing stuff.

12:06

asciilifeform then i'd mention again that i built it on POSIX-compliant os

12:06

general rule is that i should be able to at least obtain the build target using -the compilers i presently have- and a set of sourceballs.

12:06

that happens to be made by crapple

12:06

that is, i should not have to download any binaries.

12:06

nor should nubbins`, or ben_vulpes, or the rest.

12:06

<nubbins`> well, alf's not gonna go for anything w/ systemd << damn right

12:06

one of the solutions floated for the "no lssl, lcrypto" thing was to download precompiled bins

12:06

i lel'd

12:07

asciilifeform: can you make a repeatable build environment for The Foundation to use going forward? Something put together by you, blessed by you, so we're all building/testing/using something that "fits in head"?

12:07

"can't untie the knot in your laces? cut em off and apply glue-backed velcro"

12:08

mod6: i suggested this some time near day 1 if anyone recalls

12:08

yeah, see !s qemu

12:08

but do folks really want to pass a multigig bag of shit around ?

12:08

mod6 in fairness my gentoo was installed using the official docs, and it's reacting precisely the same as alf's

12:08

^^

12:08

What I was hoping for is maybe a build script. Would that be muti-gig?

12:08

"build script" is sorta the install guide :P

12:09

mod6: build script is what we have now

12:09

and see the result.

12:09

no, it would have to be a disk image for an emulated machine

12:09

to be 100% replicable across time and space

12:09

regardless of whether you have a 'pc' or 'elbrus'

12:09

mod6 ^

12:09

or hypertrophied nintendo

12:09

Ok, so say that you have installed via offical docs, bla bla bla. Ok, then our release doesn't work. But we need to fix defects, and I refuse to have this happen going forward. So we need something repeatable.

12:09

*

nubbins` has a virtualbox .VDI with gentoo installed

12:10

nubbins`: i'd rather have something that isn't as dependent on pc

12:10

virtualization of pc arch only works on pc arch.

12:11

yeah

12:11

well.

12:11

try to understand why i am hesitant to put out a binary image for folks to run

12:11

i don't want a binary.

12:11

i want a script that will build all of the "accepted"/"blessed" versions of the things it needs; gcc, etc, etc, etc.

12:12

we have to get to some sort of common ground here.

12:12

mod6: say i publish a recipe for constructing said image (runs on, e.g., qemu-system-mipsel). and then you do it, and we learn that your disk image differs from mine which differs from nubbins` which differs from mircea_popescu's etc

12:12

what then.

12:12

mod6: i want a script that will build all of the "accepted"/"blessed" versions << notice that this is where we were with bitcoind ?

12:13

let's rephrase a bit

12:13

ok. im not sure if we have a way forward on this project. or if there is, I don't know what it is.

12:13

the only -canonical- parent of a given build on my box is my particular hardware plus my particular disk contents

12:14

given that i do not especially feel like publishing the entire contents of my disk, nor could you replicate my machine easily (most of the components are no longer produced) - the next best thing is to somehow create an equivalent

12:14

with, yes, maximally detailed instructions made publi

12:14

c

12:14

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 167100 @ 0.00023779 = 39.7347 BTC [-] {2}

12:14

the other non-negotiable requirement is that it be -small-

12:14

can't be some supported-till-2020 distro used for now? gentoo is good, but moving target

12:14

because we -would- have to eventually audit the binaries.

12:15

jurov: 'supported' means what ?

12:16

before we dig too deep, is it fair to say that qemu is worth using for hosting dev environment?

12:16

leaving aside the question of OS for now

12:16

nubbins`: i have used it for dev work for many years.

12:16

ok

12:16

it is a simple enough beast

12:16

so maybe we can start there

12:17

there -are- even simpler emulators

12:17

like gxemul

12:17

what's the simplest we could get away with?

12:17

these do not focus on any -physical- machine that existed in life

12:17

but a 'textbook' mips plus bitmap graphics

12:17

http://hmarco.org/bugs/AMD-Bulldozer-linux-ASLR-weakness-reducing-mmaped-files-by-eight.html

12:17

AMD Bulldozer Linux ASLR weakness: Reducing entropy by 87.5% ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6vG8d )

12:17

i use gxemul in cardano work

12:17

i dont want to rely on an emulator if possible. i'd like to have: a URL to an ISO of gentoo that's "acceptable", a script that pulls down tar balls of required tools and builds them

12:18

mhm...how do you ensure you'll hav exact versions of stuff once gentoo moves on?

12:18

mod6: again, iso for what box

12:18

x86_64

12:18

uh does gxemul emulate x86?

12:18

if you have physical hardware, you do not control all of the variables

12:18

<nubbins`> uh does gxemul emulate x86? << very much not!

12:18

:D

12:18

only a textbook 'ideal' mips cpu that never existed

12:18

but we're cross-compiling anyway

12:18

right

12:19

(gcc doesn't care what it runs on)

12:19

all compilation is cross-compilation, really

12:19

ok so we're stuck with using an emulator only.

12:19

not stuck

12:19

not stuck. just gives a golden reference

12:19

how does one then build on an emulator then run it on their desktop or vps or w/e?

12:19

i wouldn't ascribe "stuck" to having clone-able metal available

12:19

you can still take the code and build elsewhere - if you know how

12:19

mod6: cross compile

12:20

like we now do for 'pogo'

12:20

i fear this'll add complexity from the start because you won't know if the cross-compile is failing because it's a cross-compile or because the code's borked

12:20

if the cross-compile is failing because it's a cross-compile << cross-compile is the gold standard for correctness

12:20

why? -- because you know it cannot be using the system's libs

12:21

thinkaboutit

12:21

ah, this is correct

12:21

does not make the code smarter, no

12:21

cross-compile failing would probably be a canary

12:21

but eliminates several holes-through-which-the-night-walks-in

12:21

other pros/cons for qemu vx gxemul?

12:21

might as well get em all laid out now

12:22

http://gxemul.sourceforge.net

12:22

GXemul ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6wdHc )

12:22

it has simplified hardware, not copied from any physical machine sold. quite like many similar emulators used in schools

12:23

and mips is a very simple and well-defined cpu arch.

12:23

qemu on the other hand emulates many physical machines

12:23

including i386 and x86_64

12:23

which you can physically get.

12:23

but is a more complex beast

12:24

the third choice, included for completeness, is that we do none of this

12:24

and carry on with our old approach.

12:24

of trying to get to the bottom of why the thing built for some folks

12:25

aha

12:26

welp

12:26

based on this, i think qemu is the third choice

12:27

aha lol

12:27

fourth then.

12:27

okay, so.

12:28

if anyone reading feels like being tasked

12:28

do a run-through (or 10) of getting gxemul set up, and make a guide

12:29

i'm assuming the built environments can be swapped around from person to person?

12:29

nubbins`: yes, that's the whole point.

12:29

ok

12:29

*

nubbins` asks "sanity check" questions more often than most

12:29

38108c7e4f1332bf80046a63e4a7c5e0fbce7f83a62fdeaa4518ef02947d7de83aac20b0307d286b7eb5d9c721b8400d449d4f244b2bc9358a2502fa21f56b73 /usr/portage/distfiles/gxemul-0.6.0.tar.gz

12:30

^ my snapshot

12:30

dated feb. 14 2010

12:30

current stable is only 0.6.0.1

12:31

welp

12:31

my path forward is prolly gonna be (a)gxemul (b) gentoo on same (c) 0.5.3.1 on same

12:32

i do feel that we'll run into precisely the same issues as we're having with our current gentoo installs

12:32

deedbot- http://dpaste.com/11V97ED

12:32

dpaste: 11V97ED: gxemul ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6xMVL )

12:32

but hey. the plural of anecdote is proof, yes?

12:32

deedbot...?

12:32

!up deedbot-

12:32

will it be able to run or even debug bitcoind?

12:33

nubbins`: not gentoo for the (so far, hypothetical) emulated machine

12:33

buildroot

12:33

o, rite

12:33

otherwise no one will use that for development

12:33

we don't need to upgrade it ever

12:33

or add packages

12:33

jurov: clearly this is part of the spec, it must build for a) self b) other archs

12:33

or cannot be used.

12:33

i am also open to using a bsd of one kind or another

12:34

building and usefully running are two disticnt things

12:34

BingoBoingo messed w/ 0.5.3.1 on bsd?

12:34

i'll be afk-ish, one last color to lay down on these business cards

12:34

jurov: the good thing about an emulator is that you can emulate machine of any size, providing you have one 20x or so that size.

12:34

is deedbot dead ?

12:34

even openbsd prefers to maintain racks of obsolete hardware to running emulators

12:35

deedbot- afasdfasdfgwre

12:35

deedbot- http://dpaste.com/11V97ED

12:35

dpaste: 11V97ED: gxemul ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6ycv7 )

12:35

Bad URL or network outage.

12:35

so i'm not very keen on this

12:35

deedbot- http://dpaste.com/11V97ED.txt

12:35

... ( http://bit.ly/1F6ydPH )

12:35

jurov: openbsd is solving a rather different problem, 'waltzing' it on variety of archs

12:35

accepted: 1

12:35

asciilifeform ^

12:35

raw txt

12:36

jurov: i can't say i'm creaming my pants with excitement over the idea of doing this. but so far the alternatives have been disappointing

12:36

jurov openbsd keeps a room of shit hardware because it's expected to run on that shit hardware in the real world

12:36

not on emulators of the shit hardware

12:37

<+nubbins`> i'll be afk-ish, one last color to lay down on these business cards

12:38

if using gxemul, i was speaking specifically of http://gxemul.sourceforge.net/gxemul-stable/doc/machines/machine_testmips.html

12:38

GXemul - Documentation (0.6.0.1) ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6yySC )

12:38

(it supports other, more realistic archs too, which i actually forgot because never tried)

12:39

and before anyone asks, the ram is adjustable!

12:39

or it would be a joke

12:39

HAHA i was about to.

12:39

how 'bout the cpu speed ;p

12:39

adjustable by buying faster physical cpu, lol

12:40

i think everyone here knows what an emulator is

12:40

and what the serious tradeoffs are.

12:40

i know i'd sure as fuck rather play Super Spike V-Ball on an actual NES

12:40

i wouldn't. fucking hate ntsc and 60hz flicker

12:41

why not use jvm? </troll>

12:41

hue

12:41

jurov: dotnet!

12:41

asciilifeform i wonder how well it works w/ modern tvs

12:41

*

nubbins` has NES, but in storage

12:41

nubbins`: most tv sets still come with ntsc jacks

12:42

last i checked

12:42

*

asciilifeform has not been to a tv store in a very long time

12:42

yeah they still come w/ RCA in

12:42

incidentally, the fact that NES has RCA out is amazing

12:42

AMAZING COMPANY!

12:43

nubbins`: why ?

12:43

how else would it output

12:43

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/urbit-dev/zhMRI9hn4KI/bMYtcr9o5QkJ << unrelated mega-l0l

12:43

Google Discussiegroepen ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6zdnb )

12:44

http://cryptome.org/2015-info/dragoon/dragoon-ride.htm << wtf

12:44

... ( http://bit.ly/1F6zjet )

12:45

^ eu welcomes reich IV as it welcomed III

12:46

asciilifeform via stupid RF adapter

12:46

plugged into coax input

12:46

aha those.

12:46

i remember those.

12:46

yeah

12:46

my atari 2600 one had a switch for CH 2/3

12:46

*

asciilifeform never had 'nes' but had 'commodore 64'

12:47

anyway it was usually the tv which lacked rca in

12:47

commodore, for instance, had the out

12:47

back then, yeah. a rarity.

12:47

imagine, future-proofing a video game console in 1983 :0

12:48

http://cryptome.org/2015-info/dragoon/pict21.jpg << very special l0lsauce

12:48

... ( http://bit.ly/1F6zR3T )

12:49

wonder if the muppet ever wondered why his pissant kingdom was ever occupied by ru.

12:49

hahahahaha is he holding a fucking pint of draft?

12:50

and ahahaha we know, it was because it lacked a 'big daddy' to cry to

12:50

oh wow there's another almost-empty glass behind the other side of the banner

12:50

o.O

12:50

together we will *hic*

12:50

TOGETHER WE WILL *HIC* [SIC] NOT ALLOW...

12:52

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/education/learning-curve/american-students-head-germany-free-college

12:52

American students head to Germany for free college | Marketplace.org ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6Anz0 )

12:54

this girl I know moved to germany to work at some tech company, 800eur salary for first 2 years or something.

~ 25 minutes ~

13:20

woo, done, nicest cards yet

13:20

*

nubbins` wanders away to void himself

13:23

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/32157624

13:23

Woman reported for flashing Google Street View car in South Australia - BBC Newsbeat ... ( http://bit.ly/1CVQCSh )

13:27

http://m0.joe.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/30094607/Nazi.gif

13:27

... ( http://bit.ly/1CVS72X )

13:27

" balaclava-clad goon attempts to burn a fire-resistant EU flag"

13:27

together we will *hic* ...so? let's have fun

13:30

alf takes his usaschwitz suffering too seriously

13:33

;;later tell mircea_popescu http://www.bild.me/bild.php?file=1181853joe_sacco_buffoons_tale.png << l33t w4r3z scan. this comic was probably not intentionally about the collapse of fiat world, but is a good parable for it regardless.

13:33

... ( http://bit.ly/1CVUKlf )

13:33

The operation succeeded.

13:41

[HAVELOCK] [AM1] 77 @ 0.01505727 = 1.1594 BTC [+] {6}

~ 21 minutes ~

14:02

'hey hey, ho, ho,' dns in bitcoind 'has got to go!!'

14:14

good mornin'!

14:20

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 439400 @ 0.00025376 = 111.5021 BTC [+] {2}

14:27

ein popescu!

14:27

morning!

14:27

ja!

14:28

damn, i realized took me half day to get through last 24h logs

14:28

should be doing sth else

14:29

l0l

14:32

dude these logs are dense

14:32

heh. as in stupid ?

14:32

it's not the number of lines but the maaaadness described herein

14:32

BingoBoingo: interested in "Weekly #b-a"? i need at least someting useful to come out of this

14:32

ahahaha wut!

14:33

jurov yes actually, summaries have been sought and hoped and desired for year+

14:33

every 2 lines i have to hare off to the internet - "buildroot" "qemu"

14:33

ben_vulpes that's only because you're a young fox.

14:33

there breatheth a man who has not heard of 'qemu' ?

14:33

up yrs, asciilifeform

14:33

^

14:33

apparently. EVEN I!!!! had actually seen the thing used.

14:34

and honestly, i should be the king noob here.

14:34

naw, you're too old to be a noob anymore.

14:34

but i never put any serious effort into electrical engineering!

14:34

point in case : that's how you say "computing" imh.

14:34

s.qntr arrived

14:34

jurov just sent it yeah. was about to notify you

14:34

who wants to get'em first?

14:34

but then I GOT CAUGHT IN A BA CONVO

14:34

"imh" << in my house?

14:35

head

14:35

ah

14:35

lol

14:35

i was going to, but then i got caught in conversation!

14:35

mircea_popescu> but i never put any serious effort into electrical engineering! << said the chap with his own bitcoind running on soviet trinary comp

14:35

asciilifeform you will notice it is not my effort tho.

14:35

i have put plenty of ope, as you may well be aware of from unrelatedlandia.

14:36

haha aha.

14:36

<jurov> s.qntr arrived << my broadcast also coming soonish

14:36

*

asciilifeform presently lightly occupied with a couplea unrelated things

14:36

we should start our own cockney. coupla unrelated things = fleas.

14:37

'flee,' said the fly; 'fly,' said the flea...

14:37

bitstein

mircea_popescu, mod6: The deed link at the bottom of http://thebitcoin.foundation/declaration.txt redirects to a weird domain registration site.

14:37

... ( http://bit.ly/1Gkw3A7 )

14:38

ugh

14:38

linkrot!

14:38

hot damn...

14:38

kakobrekla any idea why http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/ redirects to unregistry.com ?

14:38

... ( http://bit.ly/1GkweLY )

14:38

perfect time for me to point out that current incarnation needs friendly hosting

14:39

oh wait it is not kako's fault

14:39

TRINQUE

14:39

is not

14:39

I don't run whatever URL that is

14:39

a) put the fucking history in and b) fix your 404 scheme

14:39

that's not hitting the current one, wherever it's going

14:39

what happens is that http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/9ULZPc7yeZ9fQEA1aZ73H6mcv1s2C4gYFAbNTb5urovj gets -> to deedbot.org/ deed/9ULZPc7yeZ9fQEA1aZ73H6mcv1s2C4gYFAbNTb5urovj

14:39

Domain Names - New gTLDs | Uniregistry ... ( http://bit.ly/1GkwmLc )

14:39

which...

14:40

bitstein

mircea_popescu: http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/ redirects to http://deedbot.org/ for me. It's that specific deed link that is redirecting to unregistry.com

14:40

... ( http://bit.ly/19NfCjn )

14:40

... ( http://bit.ly/19NfCzN )

14:40

right.

14:40

http://deedbot.org/deed/9ULZPc7yeZ9fQEA1aZ73H6mcv1s2C4gYFAbNTb5urovj << normal aws 404

14:40

404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/19NfJv7 )

14:40

and I don't know what that registry is

14:40

never heard of her

14:40

weirdness.

14:41

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 188050 @ 0.00025508 = 47.9678 BTC [+] {3}

14:41

> Host: deeds.bitcoin-assets.com

14:41

> Accept: */*

14:41

>

14:41

< HTTP/1.1 302 Found

14:41

< Server: nginx/1.2.1

14:41

eyah ok.

14:55

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72500 @ 0.00025193 = 18.2649 BTC [-]

~ 31 minutes ~

15:26

<trinque> perfect time for me to point out that current incarnation needs friendly hosting << fucking hell someone start that hoster already.

15:26

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 169700 @ 0.00024797 = 42.0805 BTC [-] {2}

15:30

trinque what specs?

15:30

minimal

15:30

if we do the emulatron thing, it will -definitely- need hosting

15:30

you need what, python for the bot ?

15:30

python and go

15:30

i'd rather not put a multigig turd on my puny hostatron

15:30

and some space for the blockchain

15:30

some space aka 50gb

15:30

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000000 @ 0.000257 = 257 BTC [+] {8}

15:31

interesting, what it needs blockchain for?

15:31

has its own node

15:31

naturally deedbot has node

15:31

how else.

15:32

<+punkman> " balaclava-clad goon attempts to burn a fire-resistant EU flag" <<< protip: spray paint the corner of the thing before lighting

15:32

i see

15:32

pretty much means server for it can't have ssd.

15:33

nubbins` or squirt 190 proof alcohol on it

15:33

ssd isn't -really- 'disposable'

15:33

so, we can bootstrap on aws and move to iron later

15:33

lasts about as long as the shitty mechanical disks sold in past 5 yrs

15:33

neither is worth anything except in heterogeneous tandem.

15:33

asciilifeform just meant for size. server ssd 100gb is expensive as shit

15:33

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1245983 @ 0.00026371 = 328.5782 BTC [+] {8}

15:34

trinque any specific distro?

15:34

jurov i think he is on aws already

15:34

currently gentoo which is my preference

15:34

mircea_popescu i'd say that man drinks the 190 proof

15:35

prob drinks the paint too, i mean, that 'clava doesn't even fit him! it's like 3x too big!

15:35

wait he's dressed in a pastry ?

15:36

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 168200 @ 0.00026831 = 45.1297 BTC [+] {2}

15:36

heh

15:36

"the man donned his baclava"

15:36

oh hey, 10 minutes left in this auction: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=975256.msg10963734#msg10963734

15:36

Casascius 0.5 BTC Silver Series-2 physical bitcoin: NO RESERVE, 30-DAY AUCTION ... ( http://bit.ly/1BV27pl )

15:36

unrelated:

15:36

mircea_popescu: http://thesemenette.com/home.html

15:36

The Semenette® : : : Even Better than the Real Thing ... ( http://bit.ly/1BV29xp )

15:36

if you wanna see people be loose with money, that's the place to go

15:36

(don't ask how found this, l0l)

15:37

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 585817 @ 0.00027037 = 158.3873 BTC [+] {5}

15:38

trinque are you interested in running it on pogoplug?

15:38

jurov: the bot part I think I will

15:39

mircea_popescu: what do you think about the deeds being added to the wiki?

15:39

jurov: I have a pogo here

15:39

.deed http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=CmWcr0iw

15:39

... ( http://bit.ly/1BV33df )

15:40

trinque added to the wiki how ?

15:40

which one ?

15:41

hanbot try "deedbot- http://blah"

15:41

and also:

15:41

!up deedbot-

15:42

deedbot- http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=CmWcr0iw

15:42

... ( http://bit.ly/1BV3xjC )

15:42

rejected: 1

15:42

man you guise. /nick nubbot

15:42

lol

15:43

maybe deedbot should be auto-voiced by assbot? dem silent fails

15:43

that'd be quicker than waiting for me to give it fancy auth-to-assbot code

15:44

!gettrust assbot deedbot-

15:44

deedbot- is not registered in WoT.

15:44

well

15:44

anyone interested in hosted pogoplugs w/2 terabyte hdds? or 2x100G ssd?

15:45

*

nubbins` has 3 pogoplugs and 2 more in the mail

15:45

mircea_popescu: didn't you predict that someone would manufacture automatic impregnatrons ? i distinctly recall an essay concerning such

15:45

i'm gonna need babysitting, not hosting ;D

15:45

hanbot: it does not know your public key, which is added in the same fashion

15:45

asciilifeform aha.

15:46

man i'm outta touch w/ this new deedbot

15:46

i gotta pastebin my public key?

15:46

the lulzy part is that they try to make it sound feminine :D

15:46

"The Semenette® is unique because it offers the ability to replace the embedded plastic tubing with each use, eliminating sanitary concerns about mixing liquids you choose to put into the tube."

15:46

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you not getting enough fluid ? :D << I survived log catch up time

15:47

somebody had equal-opportunity thermodynamics class.

15:47

also i predicted a very different machine, that would include the chinese donor 'milking' box in the next room

15:47

in real time

15:47

mp

15:47

mp's rule of the junkworld : no machine may be roomsized.

15:48

not room sized in its crate!

15:48

if orc can't carry it, it already has problems.

15:48

but set up with a wall, or else what is the point

15:48

free the crates11!

15:48

(what the actual point is, is probably only comprehensible to u.s. pheminist types)

15:48

i don't think you exactly understand how envy that wears a coat and hides in the hallways works.

15:49

mircea_popescu: it could be packaged in a large suitcase, containing a reel of hose.

15:49

imagine there was a breed of marginally intelligent rabid dogs, and they attacked cars

15:49

because... can't carry one.

15:49

ahaha man this is great.

15:49

people putting bids in with 60 seconds left

15:50

this is kind-of what online action has come to mean i thought.

15:50

i'm gonna pretend that wasn't a typo

15:50

because this truly is action

15:50

anyway, late bids extend the end time by 15 minutes

15:50

so it's just people being silly

15:51

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113700 @ 0.00027094 = 30.8059 BTC [+] {2}

15:51

deedbot- http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=yRW6nuuQ

15:51

... ( http://bit.ly/1GkHOqc )

15:51

imported: EA0FAD90985B3025576A5061454B0FC0BC07B87E

15:51

lol

15:51

deedbot- http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=CmWcr0iw

15:51

... ( http://bit.ly/1BV3xjC )

15:51

accepted: 1

15:52

ty trinque, nubbins :)

15:52

np

15:53

envy that wears a coat and hides in the hallways works << also wai wat

15:53

what kind of coat does envy wear ?

15:53

allow me to show you.

15:54

http://www.demotivation.us/media/demotivators/demotivation.us__ENVY-It-Wears-a-Coat-and-Hides-in-Hallways-1.jpg

15:54

... ( http://bit.ly/1BV6yAs )

15:54

l0l

15:54

what even is that

15:54

can't tell if fatchick or hippie guy

15:55

that is the socialist of tomorrow.

15:55

neither can anyone else tell if fatchick or metrosexual.

15:55

but there clearly must be some regulation about all this unsanctioned mirror picture taking by self

15:56

what's this to do with impregnatron, though

15:57

(or perhaps i can guess what)

15:57

there's a reason you can't have a roomsized machine.

15:57

same reason people attacked big iron and lab cages.

15:57

which people ? these people.

15:58

only posited 'room' to allow for the lesbianz to avoid seeing the spooge-supplier

15:58

there's a reason stuff must be ipad even if crapple does not work : orc wants things it can carry

15:58

i'm engineer not psychiatrist.

15:58

there's no such thing as an engineer that's not a psychiatrist.

15:58

point

15:58

THIS is what psychiatry actually is

15:58

mega point

15:58

what ballas does is more akin to theatrics.

15:58

'build me a harness for efficiently tossing nun from helicopter.' -- 'what size nun?' -- 'a number-five.'

15:59

lol wut ?!

15:59

^ example

15:59

now i'm lost lol. explain in simple words ?

15:59

'mine is not to question why, mine is but to do and die'

15:59

oh lol

16:00

assumed that apparatus for delivering fresh spoodge into a lesbian is necessary

16:00

proceeded from there.

16:00

you can't proceed. "this harness is no good" "Why not ?" "it's yellow. duh."

16:00

ever ran into this ?

16:00

every time.

16:00

so then stop pretending and learn psychiatry :D

16:00

*

asciilifeform learns.

16:02

*

mircea_popescu points out that his entire life he's been a transaltor, and perhaps the most successful/best paid/dearliest loved translator ever. started off translating the law to a bunch of burly dudes, then later translated romania to foreigners, then later translated psychiatry to engineers

16:02

today translating bitcoin to everyone.

16:02

lo siento pero no entiendo

16:03

i mean uh

16:03

you know thats funny ?

16:03

no speako spanisho

16:03

jurov: BingoBoingo: interested in "Weekly #b-a"? i need at least someting useful to come out of this << I see no reason why not

16:03

<mircea_popescu> today translating bitcoin to everyone. << the book. it must be printed!

16:03

cause lo siento means sorry, but it also means i hear you in a very unspanish ethymological approach

16:03

nubbins` call it castejan, suddenly you're refined.

16:03

unless you replace the two L's with a J

16:04

'castejan' is castellano with mouth full ?

16:04

if i wanted to be refined, i'd decompose under pressure into hydrocarbons!

16:04

that's the fuck they do here.

16:04

parts of colombia do this too

16:04

they read ll like it were ascii.

16:04

medejin

16:05

'The one L lama, he's a priest The two L llama, he's a beast ...'

16:05

tried alpaca meat, never tried llama

16:06

me either.

16:06

while i'll advance that it was "good", peruvian standard is to beat any steak with a maul before grilling

16:06

so i can't really say if it's actually as tender as it seemed

16:06

and what of guinea pig meat ?

16:07

cuy? never tried.

16:07

it was always no. 1 in my 'travel to south americas' mental list

16:07

was told it's too much work for the amount of meat

16:07

[MPEX] [S.QNTR] 6415 @ 0.00037719 = 2.4197 BTC [+]

16:07

i dunno anyone offering either of these o.O

16:08

both popular in peru

16:08

iirc in peru

16:08

aha

16:08

viva el peru glorioso!

16:09

<mircea_popescu> i dunno anyone offering either of these o.O << my butcher sells llamaburgers

16:09

nuts.

16:09

are they any good ?

16:10

i'm not as curious

16:10

anything burger-ified is generally edible

16:10

*

nubbins` has admittedly made "lamburger helper" more than once :(

16:10

hanbot no cuy ?

16:10

nubbins`: sounds... delicious

16:10

trinque lamb is ++

16:11

yeah, I tend to encounter it via greek food

16:11

lamb yes.

16:11

love it

16:11

i mostly eat indian food lamb.

16:11

i should make donairs ("doner kebab" for you non-eastern-canadians) with actual lamb soon

16:11

beef's good, but i mean

16:14

saw this on a wall in a "love park" in lima, stays with me: http://imgur.com/2smAiq6

16:14

Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1BVbVQf )

16:15

do any of you lot have an x86 or x86_64 bitcoind built -with debug symbols still- in ?

16:15

i'd like one for a quick experiment.

16:16

ideally dynamic build

16:16

not i

16:16

er hm

16:16

i don't think i have debug symbols built in. easy way to check?

16:17

nm found one

16:17

young nubs in the amazon: http://imgur.com/gl4vfmS

16:17

Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1BVcKs3 )

16:19

oh man, that was the year i burned my hand! you can see the scar

16:19

*

nubbins` reminisces

16:20

let's rephrase

16:20

does anyone have an output of the latest release build

16:20

but with -dynamic-

16:22

... or not.

16:24

*

nubbins` is running latest release build, but assuming static

16:25

asciilifeform: I am building one on amd64 gentoo for ya

16:25

mircea_popescu hello sir! no cuy at all i tell you!

16:25

lmao

16:25

nubbins` well... "static".

16:25

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 114900 @ 0.00027158 = 31.2045 BTC [+] {2}

16:25

e-static it should be called.

16:26

yeah

16:26

staticky

16:26

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=975256.msg10963987#msg10963987 <<< the winning bid

16:27

Casascius 0.5 BTC Silver Series-2 physical bitcoin: NO RESERVE, 30-DAY AUCTION ... ( http://bit.ly/1BVfHJn )

16:27

meat for dinner tonight

16:28

holy everliving phuck, is auditing a cpp-built bin a pain.

16:29

found yerself a greater fool eh

16:29

mircea_popescu said that pets can be trained to do anything - make them do this.

16:29

you know asciilifeform, i don't hate them. i love them.

16:30

then train'em to do it with love.

16:30

lol

16:31

anyway, for the record, my experiment concerned the question of how to create a mapping between a source tree and sections of resulting bin

16:31

http://imgur.com/jCUBrdF <<< man i got really skinny after two weeks of diarrhoea

16:31

Imgur ... ( http://bit.ly/1BVgNES )

16:31

graph-colouring problem.

16:32

asciilifeform five colours should be enough for everyone 8)

16:32

also, you brit-spell?!

16:32

wat

16:33

he's referring to your dirty communist spelling of "color"

16:33

quick: what's the word for the people who live in the houses around you

16:33

don't think, just type

16:33

l0l

16:33

i dun spell, me fingerz spell

16:33

nubbins`: schmucks?

16:33

bahaha

16:33

smarty

16:33

neigh*r

16:33

Ah

16:34

*

nubbins` genuinely curious

16:34

ou

16:34

*

nubbins` applauds softly

16:34

wd

16:34

i mean, if we're gonna zap vowels why not let'em all go

16:34

like the semitic langs

16:34

nghbrs

16:34

neighbour.

16:35

http://www.ics.uci.edu/~perl/ndss15_opaque_cfi.pdf

16:35

... ( http://bit.ly/1P3qlH3 )

16:35

asciilifeform then a couple thou years from now you've got people taking guesses as to the True Name of mrc ppsc

16:35

YMMV, YHWH

16:35

mats: is it just me or do 'aslr' and related items give a feeling of 'plugging the wrong end of the funnel' ?

16:36

well, yes.

16:36

mats: as in, 'why is the enemy supplying instructions for your cpu to execute in the first place'

16:37

aslr is sorta like building a labyrinth in your house to slow burglars

16:37

between rooms

16:37

fun fact: i played starcraft with the guy that patented ASLR.

16:38

mats: how about the guy who patented the stone axe ?

16:38

he also went on to write the Control Flow Guard code.

16:38

heh

16:38

iirc there's an hg wells story about the guy who invented the stone axe.

16:38

not a bad read

16:38

it boggles my mind that aslr could be patented

16:38

what year filed ?

16:39

anything can bve patented

16:39

and as peole stupidify, more and more tyhings will be.

16:39

2006 iirc

16:39

there's a patent on having a database of products and modifiers which dates to 2000s sometime

16:39

stuff that was ridiculous to patent in 1850, such as "how to make bread" definitely meets the bar today.

16:39

mr mold, of all people, has watertight prior art from, iirc, '94

16:39

it was his one and only academic paper.

16:39

http://www.google.com/patents/US7831791

16:39

Patent US7831791 - Method of address space layout randomization for windows operating systems - Google Patents ... ( http://bit.ly/1BViSki )

16:39

the twist was "synchronizing the data between multiple terminals

16:39

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/27365/27365-h/27365-h.htm#Page_59

16:39

The Project Gutenberg eBook of Tales of Space and Time, by H. G. Wells ... ( http://bit.ly/1BViSAK )

16:39

if anyone's interested

16:39

l0l mentions winblows by name

16:40

at uspto these are called 'wall hanger patents'

16:40

as in, the only thing they are good for is office decoration

16:40

sure that and dragging every entity smaller than a billion plus in revenue into court to die by starvation

16:41

trinque: you need at least a basic troll-grade patent for that

16:41

not any old schizo rant will suffice

16:41

contrary to popular belief

16:41

til there's an even lower tier of "valid" patents

16:41

I've seen insane, *insane* cases in the hospitality software space

16:41

'designpatent' ?

16:42

prior art from the dawn of computing type patents

16:42

asciilifeform it occurs to me that if you spend some time now designing and patenting gasenwagens

16:42

you may end up controlling that space

16:42

prior art, if can be authenticated, invalidates patent. retroactively.

16:43

mircea_popescu: except that usg owns the patents (war trophies!)

16:43

heee

16:43

asciilifeform: jury of "peers"

16:43

this prior art thing if it actually worked would burn like a grease fire through 99.9% of software patents

16:43

100%

16:43

the standards for "novel" seem trivial

16:44

anyway patents are a passenger on the burning atomic dirigible of usg

16:44

all of'em.

16:45

not all of them.

16:45

seeing how you called whatever phrase a mpism

16:45

unless a patent is so poorly constructed as to be thrown out immediately, any patent litigation in usaworld is a contest of bank accounts.

16:46

mircea_popescu: i didn't say 'authorships' but -patents- as we know'em.

16:46

as in the weirdo crown monopolies.

16:46

well that.

16:48

incidentally, did anyone read the 'buffoon's tale' link ?

16:48

perfect allegory for usg.

16:48

and its works.

16:49

asciilifeform: current release busts for me on uint32_t as well

16:50

trinque: patched? and if so, how ?

16:50

have not made any attempt to fix it yet; have to attend to something else first

16:50

trinque: post barf plz.

16:50

k

16:50

along with os/gcc/etc

16:51

;;seen FabianB

16:51

FabianB was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 17 weeks, 6 days, 4 hours, 35 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <FabianB> not down but very slow it seems

16:52

scoopbot fetch

16:52

scoopbot -fetch

16:52

asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/01HWQYM.txt

16:52

... ( http://bit.ly/1BVmpz3 )

16:53

asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/1V47S94.txt

16:53

... ( http://bit.ly/1BVmylR )

16:53

trinque: aha, precisely what happens to the published (without weirdo patches) release on my boxes.

16:53

nubbins` et al ^^^^^^

16:54

asciilifeform: do you use a hardened toolchain?

16:54

hardened how ?

16:54

gentoo hardened profile

16:54

nope

16:54

dunno why that would magically poof in a header defining that type

16:54

wait, did it ?!

16:55

no, saying I don't know why that would be relevant

16:55

because your dump is quite the same as mine

16:56

mine is busted as yours

16:56

incidentally, i don't like 'selinux'

16:56

wondering what's different about the debian

16:56

asciilifeform: yeah I don't use it

16:56

do you like grsec?

16:56

i invoke mircea_popescu's maxim that 'if there is anything good in it, it will have to be reinvented naively'

16:56

hardened here just means having things like stack protection turned on

16:56

and why don't you like sel

16:56

selinux

16:57

mats: guess.

16:57

in my case it seems like a vast, complex surface to deal with

16:57

seems also that within that complexity you could hide nefarious things

16:58

i know why i don't like selinux, but i have a feeling we don't intersect

16:58

lemme guess: NSA?

16:58

aha.

16:58

but not merely the fact of.

16:58

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084056 << why would fb care ?!

16:58

Logged on 02-04-2015 13:34:48; lobbes: I posted obamaz magic decree to my facebook. Quite expectedly, no one cares.

16:59

mats: grsec >> but the sheer nonsensicalness of pretending that kernel can limit what kernel can do. consider this claim: 'Through PaX's UDEREF and KERNEXEC features, grsecurity forces any userland data access to go through an approved accessor and rejects any attempt to execute userland code in kernel context.'

16:59

nobody I know cares

16:59

cept those here and a handful of clever meatspace guys

16:59

mats: i can trivially make mincemeat of this by issuing raw dma cycles.

17:00

mats: selinux and similar are exemplary of usg approach to 'seek00r1ty' - add layers of 'granular' bureaucracy to the os

17:00

as if this did something tangible beyond making it even -less- fit-in-head.

17:01

and even further discouraging genuine audit, as if this were possible or even necessary

17:01

i dunno about that second part, but in general i agree with you

17:01

it isn't just 'voodoo taint' from nsa.

17:02

*

asciilifeform doesn't practice voodoo

17:03

this seems to be why openbsd just has chroot, bsd has fancy jails or whatever, and now linux has Containerz (TM)

17:03

just make fucking chroot work

17:03

that and a working firewall

17:03

but overall, folks who unrepentantly spout nonsense about one thing, damage their credibility re: other things.

17:03

you can't make chroot work

17:03

^

17:03

whysat

17:03

that's the dirty secret behind 20 years of "linux"

17:03

oh on linux

17:03

because, conceptually, it is nonsense.

17:03

mircea_popescu: actually it is the dirty secret behind 40 yrs of unix

17:03

but yes.

17:03

there's a deep reason permissions don't fucking work

17:04

that reason is that intelligent people do not wish to spend their time working on idiocy

17:04

and they do wish to tell themselves that they can ever work on "something else"

17:04

because hey, engineers not psychiatrists, right ?

17:04

unix perms are the proverbial 'pissing-section in swimming pool'

17:05

lol, I understand

17:05

makes sense.

17:05

that's what the jwz dood quite typically told me : that he "doesn't care about whatever political bone i have toi pick"

17:05

for those who don't follow the antics of lunatics: usg is -obsessed- with domain segregation

17:05

as if that's what happened, i was sitting on an exercise ball one day and spontaneously decided hey, let me make a political party and pick bones!

17:05

to the point of commissioning $maxint cpu archs that pretend to do it

17:06

ah that makes it very clear.

17:06

^ to a muppet, any deviation from his muppetology is a schizo paroxysm of irrational

17:06

"pretend to do it" << is exactly the useful thing there

17:07

to jwz et al, google simply 'is' - like the sun.

17:07

right.

17:08

to briefly return to thread, it is not a -total- waste of time to learn what usg imagines 'security' - for its private uses - means.

17:08

even if from purely psychiatric view

17:08

!s what colour are your bits

17:08

0 results for 'what colour are your bits' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=what+colour+are+your+bits

17:08

http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/entry/23

17:08

What Colour are your bits? - Ansuz - mskala's home page ... ( http://bit.ly/1BVqe7l )

17:08

^ that

17:08

and we -did- it here

17:09

'In Paranoia, everything has a colour-coded security level (from Infrared up to Ultraviolet) and everybody has a clearance on the same scale. You are not allowed to touch, or have any dealings with, anything that exceeds your clearance. If you're a Red Troubleshooter, you're not allowed to walk through an Orange door. Formally, you're not really supposed to even know about the existence of anything above your clearance. An

17:09

yone who breaks the rules is a Commie Mutant Traitor, subject to the death penalty. Much of the game revolves around the consequences of the security levels. For instance, Friend Computer might assign a team of Red Troubleshooters to re-paint a hallway that ought to be Orange but was painted Yellow by mistake the Commie Mutant Traitors. It's quite likely in such a case that the Troubleshooters will all end up shooting each o

17:09

ther for treason against Friend Computer, since none of them are allowed to touch the paint, go near the hallway, or talk about their mission, and they're all charged with enforcing the rules on one another.'

17:09

^ for the record.

17:10

lol notbad. what is this ?

17:10

the colour essay

17:10

!s monolith

17:10

9 results for 'monolith' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=monolith

17:10

mircea_popescu even wrote an essay on the subject.

17:12

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--cfqe4JUp--/fqceoem5sfd8khvzkpkc.jpg

17:12

... ( http://bit.ly/1BVrkju )

17:13

lol first time this decade ?

17:13

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084247 <<< to be fair, you didn't try until 4-5 hours ago

17:13

Logged on 02-04-2015 15:59:59; thestringpuller: haven't been able to contact cazalla

17:14

mircea_popescu: Apparently he set the record

17:15

nice lordosis on the chick... that babe knows how to party.

17:16

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46800 @ 0.0002719 = 12.7249 BTC [+]

17:17

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-10-2014#883664

17:17

Logged on 19-10-2014 18:32:52; asciilifeform: engineers, who (as shown by the 'monolith' gedankenexperiment, search logs) often do not really apprehend how lizard-reich and its subordinate bureaucracies really think.

17:17

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084081 <<< this, for the record, is kinda ridiculous.

17:17

Logged on 02-04-2015 14:05:13; lobbes: I'd like to believe if I just focus on myself and amass enough wealth I can weasel my way through time

17:17

might as well make your strategy "to get really really fat"

17:17

'too fat to hang'

17:18

(some prisoner in usa got a temporary stay of execution on this argument.)

17:18

'i wus sentenced to hang not heads-off'

17:18

!rate thestringpuller 1 overpromised and underdelivered on task he set himself for qntra

17:18

Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/0e2233d7dfc2e173

17:20

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084116 << whoever the fuck came up with this "binary module loading" bs should be found and named.

17:20

Logged on 02-04-2015 14:54:13; assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 03:26:58; nubbins`: "glibc uses libnss to support a number of different providers for address resolution services. Unfortunately, you cannot statically link libnss, as exactly what providers it loads depends on the local system's configuration."

17:20

i can see why this would be useful as an alternative method for very peculiar situations

17:21

but otherwise, in vast majority of cases, libnss SHOULD JUST CONTAIN ALL!

17:21

like fucking code is supposed to do.

17:21

many things 'should' xxxxx.

17:22

no.

17:22

but the list of 'should but doesn't' appears to grow, grow, every time we turn over a rock.

17:22

!verify assbot:cazalla.rate.thestringpuller.1:16ae1454fd113b8cc0c781069043ec4cfadbdd32f55f8f028415f9d88daa29df

17:22

Successfully updated the rating for thestringpuller from 2 to 1 with note: overpromised and underdelivered on task he set himself for qntra

17:22

to no surprise of mine

17:22

that you don't randomly stick binary in my ass is not a "many things"

17:22

this is rape.

17:23

reminds me

17:23

iirc i killed 'loadable modules' on pogotron but forgot to disable the now-useless mod utils.

17:23

oughta be in the next patch.

17:24

2M s.mpoe buy wall @ 0.00027

17:24

(loadable modules are good for kernel dev work and really not much else.)

17:25

asciilifeform do you even have a clue why the fuck libnss is made that way ?

17:25

is it to fit it on w/e arm shits ?

17:25

mircea_popescu: in so far as i can tell, the problem in question is entirely shot in the head by my dns removal patch.

17:25

is it to load whatever early ityeration of nsa diddle in systems ?

17:25

mircea_popescu: i cannot fathom why it was made this way, other than for the usual reasons.

17:25

there is no conceivable technical justification for it, beyond sloth.

17:26

who did this ?

17:26

there is also the overall 'rust' resulting from no one ever building static anything whasoever for years.

17:26

if whoever the fuck is responsible for this crapever shows up in wot he's getting my -.

17:28

one day we will have a simon wiesenthal of crapware.

17:28

pure anomie, this shit. idiots "doocracying" with no conception of right and wrong whatsoever.

17:28

hunt the gnomes and drag them kicking, screaming, to the stake.

17:28

"i have tried and so nobody should criticize the steaming pile of dumb dung "

17:30

Bet placed: 10 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/ Odds: 10(Y):90(N) by coin, 10(Y):90(N) by weight. Total bet: 142.30184834 BTC. Current weight: 73,553.

17:30

Bet placed: 3 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $150 before July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1133/ Odds: 13(Y):87(N) by coin, 14(Y):86(N) by weight. Total bet: 9.61572615 BTC. Current weight: 94,475.

17:30

mircea_popescu: don't expect them to walk in voluntarily

17:30

i don't expect anything.

17:30

^ the correct thing to expect.

17:31

"unfortunately, the way we made this foss software is that it behaves exactly like windows"

17:31

i actually find it interesting how astonishingly well-clustered the 'digerati' set is.

17:31

"there's nothing wrong with pki, it just fixes dns."

17:31

zawinski lives next to lanier in my head and this is not accidental nor misleading

17:31

even if they never met in the flesh

17:31

you KNOW this shit even got to be used in the first place because usg said so.

17:32

"why do we have dns ? it sucks! " "yes but that's how nsa could figure out how to diddle via libnss"

17:32

"so why are you all pushing pki ? it's fucktarded beyond reason" "no look, it has a whiff of salami right in this spot!"

17:33

in many cases (quite arguably dns included) the turd was an ad-hoc hack from the days of arpa but was cemented in place because guess-why.

17:33

this is a fine point but not unimportant zoologically

17:34

because it is uncommon for the enemy to -invent- a turd ab initio

17:34

and that, incidentally, is the objection ot poettering : it's not a matter of "doing". the man simply has no conception of right and wrong.

17:34

asciilifeform: so there's u_int32_t defined in sys/types.h but not uint32_t; I would be interested to see what sys/types.h holds for the other folks

17:34

it is normally fished out of a pre-existing latrine.

17:34

he might as well be a monkey.

17:34

asciilifeform just pick one of the preexisting sluts and then prevent washing, sure.

17:34

comment above: /* But these were defined by ISO C without the first `_'. */

17:34

i will have the heads of the ab-initio people tho.

17:35

there's u_int32_t defined in sys/types.h but not uint32_t << ahahahahaha.

17:36

someone actually wrote that.

17:36

with a straight face.

17:36

and, would probably come up with 'reasons'

17:36

i wonder what would be his 'reasons' after a few days of hanging upside-down over a cobra pit.

17:37

(or insert a more appropriate prelude to a punishment to fit the crime)

17:38

*

trinque begins a debootstrap to see what it craps in sys/types.h

17:38

soooooooo many ways to arrange four bytes.

17:38

asciilifeform: stop trying to stifle people's creativity

17:41

'friar sank to his knees! sacred sensation! miracle proclaimed! blessed defecation!'

17:42

asciilifeform: said poettering to the porcelain, parting is such sweet sorrow

17:43

debootstrap failed mysteriously the first time

17:43

trinque: from earlier link

17:43

failed how

17:43

I was just being creative

17:43

l0l

17:43

asciilifeform: couple files didn't download

17:43

reran, went better

17:44

http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/Name-Service-Switch.html#Name-Service-Switch

17:44

The GNU C Library: Name Service Switch ... ( http://bit.ly/19MOLU5 )

17:44

nss was added to "remove hacks"

17:44

hahaha

17:44

mega-l0l!

17:46

i don't think nss per se is the problem here however

17:46

the idea of loading binary modules and breaking static builds is not exactly = to nss.

17:46

you could have it implemented sanely just as well.

17:46

could.

17:46

just as you could have north america ruled by a sane ottoman empire.

17:46

or whatnot.

17:47

i guess they wanted to avoid running standalone process and whatnot

17:47

you don't even ened a motherfucking process.

17:47

dude holy hell, no configured file ever existed before ?

17:47

jurov: appreciate that what we are attempting with static build is like digging out one of those lugers ru kids routinely find in the ground and trying to fire it

17:47

it's solid rust

17:47

can barely make out which way the barrel points

17:48

butbutbut we need to support dns resolving with mongodb(r)(tm)!!!

17:49

nuts.

17:49

and that this made it into c...

17:49

and without(gasp) recompiling libc or running dns servers!

17:49

FFS!

17:50

fortunately we don't have to fill this swamp today

17:50

apply dns-zap patch.

17:50

bitcoin does not need dns for anythign!

17:53

http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000040.html

17:53

... ( http://bit.ly/19MPtAN )

17:53

for those just catching up

17:53

[MPEX] [S.QNTR] 4470 @ 0.00037719 = 1.686 BTC [+]

17:53

now, lemme give this a whirl

17:54

careful with that one

17:54

once you dump dns seeder, you gotta have some live nodes (!!!) in the seed list

17:54

which, in turn, should not be the hardcoded idiocy

17:54

but passed on commmandline

17:54

i never got around to shitting out a patch to remove the hardcoded seedz

17:55

ALSO

17:55

now that i read that patch, i notice that it does not eliminate -all- occurrences of the dns crapolade

17:55

*

nubbins` perks ears

17:55

there is yet another

17:55

iirc, in the spot where the thing learns own ip.

17:56

bbl, gotta buy food.

17:56

what's it sending a POST request to whatismyip.com? :D

17:56

^ dns query !!

17:57

holy shit no one knows why there's both a u_int32_t and a uint32_t

17:57

the latter is defined in c99

17:57

prob because one asshole somewhere along the line had a build error

17:57

and "this seems to fix it"

17:58

all I can find is derps going "just include ..."

17:58

NO SHIT

17:58

i suppose github could tell you who committed it the first time

17:58

i don't keep a list of this type of person, mp may be interested enough to look

17:59

may have been satoshi himself

17:59

may have been there from the beginning

18:00

this forum post thing where people pop off with some tape fix rather than explaining what's going on

18:00

blowtorch

18:01

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084788 dude, what's in your ear?

18:01

Logged on 02-04-2015 20:31:31; nubbins`: http://imgur.com/jCUBrdF <<< man i got really skinny after two weeks of diarrhoea

18:02

asciilifeform: could boost be pulling or not pulling this type in based on some kind of config magic?

18:02

lucky i am not otw to conf, i would so attach a padlock to your ear :P

18:03

you could try

18:05

in my /usr/include I see for example this "nettle" thing doing typedef u_int32_t uint32_t;

18:06

o.O

18:08

http://i.imgur.com/hOH0HCLl.png << silkscreened biz cards on 160# black paper

18:08

... ( http://bit.ly/19MQIzU )

18:08

nubbins`: those look great.

18:08

ty

18:08

really nice texture on the black parts too

18:08

dat subtle relief

18:11

s

18:13

ok alf i'm applying all 3 of your patches to a fresh 0.5.3.1, should know one way or another in an hour or so

18:17

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36956 @ 0.0002719 = 10.0483 BTC [+]

18:21

!up wpalczynski

18:21

nubbins`, nice card

18:22

thanks, hand-printed

18:22

*

trinque can suddenly not paste into chrome

18:23

typedef paste u_paste32_t;

18:23

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64650 @ 0.00027024 = 17.471 BTC [-] {2}

18:24

nubbins`: pls don't trigger me

18:24

I actually typedef'd the missing type to see what happened, and now it's pissed about something else

18:24

would love to show ya >:)

18:26

hey, pastebin is hungry

18:27

nubbins`: http://dpaste.com/136CA5Z.txt

18:28

... ( http://bit.ly/19MS6mi )

18:28

trinque try alf's patch

18:28

link?

18:29

http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150401/asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation_8685d541f20bcfe8d8cc9fefba663dd861f7b237.patch

18:29

... ( http://bit.ly/19MSaCD )

18:29

ty

18:29

heh yeah I was derping through exactly what he fixed

18:30

ah, i wouldn't say it's fixed

18:30

well, he was a notch closer anyway

18:30

regardless, try again

18:30

yes

18:34

nubbins`: kerboom -> http://dpaste.com/33G6CY8.txt

18:34

... ( http://bit.ly/1GQAjbi )

18:36

starting clean and logging all output

18:37

but it looked like the stuff not being linked *was* built

18:37

i am also at the "cannot find -lssl, -lcrypto" stage

18:38

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28800 @ 0.00027 = 7.776 BTC [-]

18:42

nubbins`: what does export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$OURLIBS/lib under the rest of the exports do for you?

18:42

I'm waiting on mine to rebuild

18:42

this is in auto.sh

18:43

<nubbins`> ok alf i'm applying all 3 of your patches << wai wat, 3?!

18:44

the integer retardation patch includes the one from portatron

18:45

/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.8.4/../../../../x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: /usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.8.4/../../../../lib64/libpthread.a(pthread_cond_wait.o): relocation R_X86_64_32 against `__gcc_personality_v0' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC

18:45

/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/4.8.4/../../../../lib64/libpthread.a: error adding symbols: Bad value

18:45

^ wat.

18:45

(from trinque's)

18:46

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59100 @ 0.0002719 = 16.0693 BTC [+]

18:50

<+asciilifeform> the integer retardation patch includes the one from portatron <<< o look

18:51

?

18:51

it should go without saying that asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation_8685d541f20bcfe8d8cc9fefba663dd861f7b237.patch is not a tree candidate !

18:51

:D

18:51

i probably should have specified this in the signed text

18:52

but stating it here for anyone who did not immediately grasp this.

18:52

I dunno what that link error is.

18:52

while we're at it, do not operate chainsaws w/ your genitals

18:55

nubbins`, how many of those birds of newfoundland books do you have left? / remind me to get one of those if/when the qntra cards get sent out

18:56

danielpbarron we'll be making them for as long as people buy them. i'll set one aside for ya

18:56

your if/when is currently an if

18:57

i floated a design, nobody was too fussy, nothing else suggested

18:57

*

nubbins` generally doesn't do design work on open-ended spec

19:01

:o

19:10

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54650 @ 0.00027 = 14.7555 BTC [-]

19:19

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16146 @ 0.0002719 = 4.3901 BTC [+]

~ 18 minutes ~

19:38

New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/mpex-smpoe-march-2015-statement/

19:38

New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/qntra-sqntr-march-2015-statement/

19:38

New post on The Whet by han@thewhet: http://thewhet.net/2015/line-betting-on-bitbet-march-2014/

19:40

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44554 @ 0.00027 = 12.0296 BTC [-]

19:45

lol i can't year.

19:46

!b 2

19:46

Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0HEN57S.txt )

19:53

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53400 @ 0.0002719 = 14.5195 BTC [+]

19:55

mircea_popescu, you might need to edit the s.qntr post

19:59

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55400 @ 0.0002719 = 15.0633 BTC [+]

20:07

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21518 @ 0.00027 = 5.8099 BTC [-]

~ 18 minutes ~

20:25

http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=xEsMZtmE

20:25

... ( http://bit.ly/1CBiIB7 )

20:25

^ with asciilifeform's kill-integer and dns-snip patches

20:28

!t m s.mpoe

20:28

[MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00023767 / 0.00025475 / 0.0002719 (11285618 shares, 2,875.10 BTC), 7D: 0.00022189 / 0.00025956 / 0.00028207 (45012775 shares, 11,683.73 BTC), 30D: 0.0001443 / 0.00028991 / 0.0004493 (104171490 shares, 30,200.60 BTC)

20:28

!t m s.qntr

20:28

[MPEX:S.QNTR] 1D: 0.00037719 / 0.00037719 / 0.00037719 (10885 shares, 4.11 BTC), 7D: 0.00033 / 0.00037676 / 0.00037719 (10985 shares, 4.14 BTC), 30D: 0.00020808 / 0.00027399 / 0.00037719 (40462 shares, 11.09 BTC)

20:29

i'm not sure if this is confined to my system or not, asciilifeform mod6 danielpbarron ben_vulpes et al

20:30

but the local build of openssl doesn't copy its includes over to the ourlibs dir

20:30

simply doing this manually and re-running auto.sh brings me back to... uint32_t: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=pHmyM0FE

20:30

... ( http://bit.ly/1CBiRo2 )

20:34

my darwin build put 'em in the right place

20:34

my debian as well

20:34

if i recall correctly - it's been a few days

20:37

samesies, but i think i'd remember doing this

20:37

i'm gonna pastebin my entire build if anyone feels like digging w/ me

20:38

oh, too big.

20:50

https://coinreport.net/antagonist-bitcoin/ first sentence paragraph lol

20:50

CoinReport The Antagonist of Bitcoin - CoinReport ... ( http://bit.ly/1GlDOpm )

20:51

who would've thought americans sit around drinking coffee discussing how much they dislike mircea_popescu

20:55

lol was Garrett Keirns Garr255 or the "Surf Captital Management" douche

20:58

haha

20:58

"Bryce and I have an esoteric, and funny, similarity. We mutually disdain Romanian cryptographer Mircea Popescu. This is how we start our conversation."

20:58

this should be rich

20:58

maybe it's a late april fool's joke?

20:58

“It never goes down!” says Bryce, referring to the BTC/UNO exchange rate. “That’s the thing people love about UNO. It never goes down.”

20:58

"He tells his EVUE dream of a RIAA-approved blockchain system that will allow users to keep track of digital content and freely transfer it via internet platforms (i.e. Spotify, iTunes, Windows Media). “People will be able to keep their digital content for life,”"

20:59

my non-riaa-approved content will work just fine in 2115

20:59

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 124970 @ 0.00027 = 33.7419 BTC [-]

20:59

hmm

20:59

i feel like this is a facebook post, but on a website

21:01

i.e.relevant to the two guys in it, and maybe in passing to some of their friends or family

~ 16 minutes ~

21:17

mircea_popescu's a cryptographer nao?

21:17

first a girl, now a cryptographer?

21:18

i guess that's what they call anyone who understands math these days.

21:19

"The project will be a massive undertaking requiring a large seed investment. "

21:19

huehuehuehu i got a large seed investment for ya right here buddy

21:19

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6950 @ 0.0002719 = 1.8897 BTC [+]

21:20

bryce will also tell you that reputation doesn't matter either.

21:20

HYU

21:21

mega lulz, where to start?

21:21

New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/04/silk-road-sealed-document-dump-day-full-text/

21:22

"I design blockchains to have purpose. I want the open-source, decentralized DNM to succeed so I can use my RZR coins to buy weed," quips Bryce.

21:22

does he not have punk kids all over downtown to provide this service??

21:22

when has it ever been difficult to score weed, seriously

21:28

!up Cogburn

21:28

thanks :)

21:28

I'm Bryce Weiner :)

21:28

do you gpg?

21:29

i'm president obama

21:29

oh cmon nobody is gonna pop in here and pretend to be me

21:29

can't trust ya tho

21:29

welcome to the new world order

21:29

get your keys sorted, boss

21:30

Cogburn, why do you hate mircea_popescu ?

21:30

"You think someone would do that, just go on the internet and tell lies?"

21:30

i don't

21:30

i dunno why people think that

21:30

we disagree. that's not hate.

21:30

adults can disagree

21:31

dialectic and all that

21:31

going by the article, you hate him because you ain't him

21:31

ok why do you disdain him?

21:31

why is he beneath you?

21:31

going by the article garret has an axe to grind with him :)

21:31

nobody is beneath me. where do you guys get this stuff?

21:31

well he suggested that the sentiment is mutual between you two

21:31

he would be wrong

21:31

:)

21:31

Cogburn: Well garret lost people a bunch of money with his Surf Captial Management thing

21:32

that would only be one way

21:32

i did a google search for the word "disdain" and got the feeling that someone or something is unworthy of one's consideration or respect; contempt.

21:32

and contempt: the feeling that a person or a thing is beneath consideration, worthless, or deserving scorn.

21:32

And Garrett may or may not also be Garr255 of the Cognitive Mining tire fire

21:33

i have never expressed disdain. i have expressed passionate disagreement. that's what consensus is about. like the old days of the greek republics arguing the issues of the day on the senate steps

21:33

Cogburn: Would you nick happen to be a reference to Rooster Cogburn?

21:33

those are garrets words, not quotes

21:33

Yes, it is.

21:33

fuck u scoopbot! http://qntra.net/2015/04/federal-agent-sells-firearms-via-darknet-market/

21:33

Federal Agent Sells Firearms Via Darknet Market | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1IWX6Be )

21:33

Sweet

21:34

Cogburn, maybe you should take that up with the surfs up guy instead of us? he wrote it afterall

21:34

Cogburn: get in the wot?

21:34

here's my key ID

21:34

just so's i can take ye seriously?

21:34

had to dig that shit out

21:34

26F3050C

21:34

Cogburn, tell it to assbot

21:34

!h

21:34

http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot

21:34

Cogburn: you savvy wot?

21:34

danke

21:35

i'm interested in riaacoin

21:36

who isn't :)

21:36

its not alt. it's bitcoin

21:36

"I've developed what I call a Bitcoin Circadian Rhythm. I've noticed my body has begun aligning itself with the 10-minute block time of the Bitcoin Blockchain." << lolol

21:36

total misquote

21:36

but what are ya gonna do

21:37

negrate the fucker

21:37

if you're in the wot that is

21:37

i think WoT's are kinda culty

21:37

so when you tweeted this article, you were using the hashtag "#awesome" in a sarcastic manner?

21:38

I think it's awesome when people say my name. :)

21:38

!b 3

21:38

Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2213JV8.txt )

21:38

those two lines in succession made me lol

21:38

:)

21:38

<Cogburn> i think WoT's are kinda culty << It makes a decent shit filter though. The postitive ratings often are no where near as informative as the reasons for the negative ratings

21:39

gamification of reputation is for people who can't give a good handshake or a warm, geniune smile when they meet someone.

21:39

trustless systems are for people with trust issues

21:39

:)

21:39

*

danielpbarron stabs Cogburn

21:40

you know who gives really warm handshakes? scammers.

21:40

i dunno. i shook josh garza's hand. unimpressed.

21:40

the same people who always have an explaination at the ready as to why they don't like WoTs

21:40

Cogburn: Score are the least important thing about a WoT, walking the graph and reading the feedback is

21:41

for the record, i still think you're trolling us :)

21:41

not at all

21:41

I'm here specifically to remove that misconception

21:41

Cogburn, it's not so much the wot that can be gamed but yourself

21:42

depends I think as well on initial conditions a great deal.

21:42

I do agree with everything MP says, but I do respect him. that's sort of a necessary component of dialectic.

21:42

*do not agree

21:42

funkenstein_: It's not that he's trolling. He's stuck in a wilder wester place

21:42

We don't all have to agree.

21:42

The consensus can be "go fuck yourself"

21:43

:)

21:43

Disagreement is the most valuable thing in the world, especially when its informed

21:43

^

21:45

I think we can bullshit the current system by crypto inside of the existing rules and bring about real change. I do not believe in the decentralized anarcho-capitalist utopia as a world-spanning solution to our ills. I think people will live that way if the want to, but real freedom is the ability to say "no"

21:45

*by using

21:45

itunes

21:46

Cogburn, do you read the logs? you seem to have joined pretty quickly after my mentioning of that lulzy article

21:46

cazalla: Everyone reads the logs

21:46

i told him to join

21:46

https://twitter.com/danielpbarron/status/583802621011501056

21:46

The Antagonist of /hashtag/Bitcoin?src=hashhttp://t.co/j9a3G5bvDS via /CoinReportNews/hashtag/Awesome?src=hash

21:46

I was invited and I accepted :)

21:47

cazalla: And if they don't danielpbarron offers them the chance

21:47

I do not go where I am not wanted. I'll talk with anyone who wants to talk.

21:47

yeah well you're wearing out my patience with all the spammy smily faces

21:47

do you use itunes?

21:47

ah, fair enough then

21:47

any of you?

21:48

i smile all the time. don't be so grumpy

21:49

and so far all you have to say might as well have been copy pasted from the top comment on a reddit post

21:49

!up CryptoDustin

21:49

Maybe.. but it's my post and my thoughts and you're the one reading articles about me and bitching, so there is that

21:50

CryptoDustin

<3

21:50

MP doesn't have the market cornered on being crazy. some of us are just fucking nuts as he is. just not as rich. yet.

21:51

who says he is crazy?

21:51

danielpbarron: He's going off in a way we find weird. Maybe it ends up kinda fruitful.

21:51

many people. i fully support his threat to fork bitcoin if gavin's block expansion goes through. he's 100% correct that it is an economic alteration to the network and not simple technical

21:52

what?? he has threatened no such thing

21:52

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51150 @ 0.00027 = 13.8105 BTC [-]

21:52

gavin is the one threatening a fork

21:52

... i'm pretty sure he did

21:52

gavin has the keys. he's "that guy"

21:52

what keys?

21:52

that's metaphorical

21:52

the ones snipped from the code because they mean nothing?

21:52

Cogburn: with nothing grounding it to reality

21:53

that's right

21:53

http://thebitcoin.foundation/turdmeister-alert-snip.tar.gz

21:53

... ( http://bit.ly/1DCnJeK )

21:53

it's 100% bullshit

21:53

that's why MP is right

21:53

Cogburn> gavin has the keys. he's "that guy" << Thermos also has a copy of the "Keys"

21:53

poor choice of words on my part

21:53

no problem, but that is the core of the issue

21:53

these clowns are no more "the bitcoin guys" than anyone else

21:53

gavin has the attention poor people who think that talking about bitcoin makes them a part of it somehow

21:54

pun intended? what is bitcoin if not the core reference client?

21:54

Alert keys. I hope somebody pushes a cosbycoin message through someday :)

21:54

it gets really existential really quickly

21:54

Cogburn, the reference client is here

21:54

not github

21:54

what is the internet if not microsoft IE?

21:55

there's an article from late 2013 and i wish i could find it entitled "What if Bitcoin turned Evil?"

21:55

21.co get $120m to make ASICs

21:55

let's say they end up to comprise 70% of the network

21:55

and add 100m coins

21:55

if you think socialism is good, then bitcoin is evil to you

21:55

what are you gonna do about it?

21:56

reject the blocks

21:56

i'm gonna keep running my node that ignores their invalid blocks

21:56

so there's now 2 bitcoins

21:56

do i care that hundreds of altcoins exist? nope.

21:56

yes but which diverged?

21:56

according to consensus, the 70% wins, right?

21:56

well seeing as how i'm using a node which didn't change rules..

21:56

but that's a single entity

21:56

$120m to make orphans

21:57

what's next an riaa-controlled blockchain?

21:57

the consensus of whom? you still have to sell those 100m coins

21:57

Looking deeper, that's a silicon valley brain child

21:57

<Cogburn> according to consensus, the 70% wins, right? << The beautiful thing about concensus is how many releases have been make since $100+ BTC which must agree

21:57

that means all those buddies in palo alto that everyone uses will fork to that chain

21:58

good for them. seriously good riddance

21:58

they can have their USGcoin

21:58

and if the economic implications of their fork eventually make the thing worthless, the original will have the posture towards it that it has towards fiat

21:58

!up Cogburn

21:58

get in the WoT would ya

21:58

No

21:58

Hehe

21:58

I truly hope MP is interested in this because if he wanted to compete with 21.co I would be very down to help.

21:59

if you want to help, the first step is getting in the WoT

21:59

Cogburn: ...sounds like a great reason to register so that you may retain voice and discuss that with him

21:59

that is no optional

21:59

Cogburn, http://www.contravex.com/2014/03/17/irc-yeshiva/

21:59

IRC Yeshiva | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCpgkR )

22:00

aww that's really cute

22:01

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13817 @ 0.00027026 = 3.7342 BTC [+]

22:01

Cogburn: As someone else from the borderlands between the middle west and the middle south of the US I swear the WoT doesn't hurt that much

22:01

However I'm already 32 degree freemason, so thank you but no thank you

22:02

^ cold mothafucka

22:03

You know the WoT is basically forensic evidence, right?

22:03

You sacrifice anonymity?

22:03

lol.

22:03

I'm okay with just a quick visit.

22:04

<Cogburn> You sacrifice anonymity? << You also gain insurance

22:04

For what? People come to my coffee house from bitcoin every few months.

22:04

no one connected to the internet on any device that exists has anonymity

22:04

You're welcome, too

22:04

anonymity is overrated, and it isn't for the poor anyway

22:04

Cogburn: Did you not see mircea_popescu's insurance policy against Obola seizures?

22:05

anonymity is a choice

22:05

and nobody is forcing you to register your slave name

22:05

Cogburn: I mean you did Changetip ISIS...

22:05

loooooool

22:05

hahahaha

22:07

Cogburn: Of all people you might have an interest in sticking your head out here from time to time and getting friendly with people.

22:07

!b 4

22:07

Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1Y027Q5.txt )

22:08

lol what even is this.

22:08

some guy who thinks he is a big name in bitcoin but needs to acknowledge that he is currently a nobody in the realm that counts

22:09

<nubbins`> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=xEsMZtmE << this is actually -correct- behaviour - barfs instead of pulling in system's ssl headers

22:09

... ( http://bit.ly/1DCr4un )

22:09

<asciilifeform> lol what even is this. << Rooster Cogburn's a Marshall on the altcoin wild west

22:09

I am very friendly. I was invited and I showed up.

22:09

I do have things to do

22:09

<nubbins`> simply doing this manually and re-running auto.sh brings me back to... uint32_t ... << aaaaand this is where my patch in turn b0rks the thing. 'the doctor cured the patient's ear, but did poke out an eye, i fear'

22:09

There's always twitter

22:10

thanks for stopping by

22:10

'Romanian cryptographer Mircea Popescu...' << l0l

22:10

it's a pleasure. i'm glad i did. i didn't realize that people thought i hated MP or something. I don't hate anyone. Life is too short.

22:10

<Cogburn> There's always twitter << Stop by again. Just remember on Twitter danielpbarron tends to bite harder than here.

22:11

Cogburn: where do you know (?) mircea_popescu from ?

22:11

being critical isn't hate. i'm not above being criticized. I do and say dumb shit like anyone does. I'm also kinda nuts.

22:11

Cogburn, it's your friend who gave such an impression, not us

22:11

shut happens

22:11

*shit

22:11

when condensing thoughts into 140 characters i tend to chop out the nice sounding bits leaving only the necessary harsh words

22:11

twitter is like conversation in haiku

22:12

Cogburn: I'm still waiting on an elaboration of this disagreement

22:12

MP and I had a little row at the end of 2013 and I think that's where it stemmed from

22:12

<Cogburn> pun intended? what is bitcoin if not the core reference client? << actually Cogburn is right. it very much -is- the reference client. which lives here: http://therealbitcoin.org

22:12

..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CBlXID )

22:12

I literally cannot remember the context

22:12

I have no idea what we were talking about

22:13

when in doubt, check the log -> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-04-2015#1085254

22:13

Logged on 03-04-2015 01:30:49; Cogburn: we disagree. that's not hate.

22:13

but could not remember what disagreed about ?

22:13

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25800 @ 0.00027 = 6.966 BTC [-]

22:13

!s Bryce

22:13

5 results for 'Bryce' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=Bryce

22:13

i remember the disagreement. there was someone else in it too... i can't remember

22:14

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-02-2014#533483

22:14

Logged on 26-02-2014 21:09:12; mircea_popescu: anyone know a certain Bryce Weiner ?

22:14

i just don't remember what it was about. some esoteric point of anarcho capitalism or some such.

22:14

awww

22:14

<3

22:14

Things happen, hopefully people learn

22:15

<Cogburn> You know the WoT is basically forensic evidence, right? << it's more of a signed confession than 'forensic' anything. like the american 'declaration of independence.' 'we hang together or hang separately,' etc.

22:15

fair

22:15

I'll consider it.

22:16

I hadn't seen it expressed that way before

22:16

<Cogburn> that means all those buddies in palo alto that everyone uses will fork to that chain << have you ever seen a tram in the third world ?

22:16

or a train

22:16

notice all the folks hanging off the sides, on the roof ?

22:17

now, are they 'passengers' ?

22:17

Let's assume my RIAA project is real. Let's assume it happens, and partners with TIDAL for content provision. If 1,000,000 people listen to 3 minute songs for 1 hour, that's 3,000,000+ TX per block in microtransactions.

22:18

and, do the folks -inside- - who paid for their tickets - need them for anything? does the train need them ?

22:18

I understand your analogy better than you think.

22:18

Cogburn: there are more lucrative ways to fleece idiots, you know

22:19

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31638 @ 0.00027 = 8.5423 BTC [-]

22:19

Cogburn: RIAA project << i for one would only pay even a penny for something riaa-related if it somehow -takes away- at least the same penny from riaa et al.

22:19

and am not alone in this.

22:20

especially if the sum gets subtracted in human flesh.

22:20

george clinton would agree

22:20

I understand. I also appreciate where it is that I say these things.

22:20

This is not what I would call a "receptive audience" to my idea.

22:20

When we announce officially, I will come back and AMA

22:21

asciilifeform: so, If I wanna play around, I should try gxemul before qemu?

22:21

the other thing is the political nuance here. when you do business with riaa etc. you are banking that 2025 will contain a world where riaa and the usg it is an affiliate of - are still in business

22:21

instead of residing in extermination camps.

22:22

I think that RIAA is tired of getting fucked by new technology and drank their own koolaid.

22:22

I could be wrong.

22:22

musicians are also tired of getting fucked by the riaa

22:22

everyone is tired of getting fucked

22:22

that's kinda the point

22:22

lol

22:22

we can fix that

22:23

that's what my project aims to do

22:23

*

BingoBoingo impressed there is so much lag between axe time and sword time

22:23

Cogburn: from what i read so far, it seems like your 'fix' still involves armed thugs threatening murder to create a 'market.'

22:23

if things are going to change, we first have to stop getting fuced

22:23

*fucked

22:23

stop fucking over each other

22:23

then things just change on their own

22:23

nice and easy

22:24

pass the lsd plz.

22:24

like that time in history where things went nice and easy

22:24

Rome

22:24

Say what you want, it fucking worked.

22:24

ah, so you are also in favor of slavery?

22:25

Cogburn: worked -when- ?

22:25

how's your paycheck?

22:25

are you self employed?

22:25

Cogburn: please specify -when- rome 'worked'

22:25

don't talk to me of slavery if you are paid a wage

22:25

i am in favor of slavery

22:25

Garret Kierns for the record https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=58893

22:25

View the profile of Surf Capital Management ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCutJp )

22:25

slavery in our time is a choice

22:26

i'm okay with that, so long as there is a choice

22:26

it's always a choice.. between doing as your master says or being beaten

22:26

or starving to death in the wilderness

22:26

I appreciate some people just don't want to deal with some shit. That doesn't make them bad.

22:27

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28500 @ 0.00027 = 7.695 BTC [-]

22:27

I think ultimately people will choose whatever gives them the best life, and the sad current condition is that this is what they've chosen, because this is all they can see.

22:28

I think you're right.

22:28

now, how do you demonstrate that there's a different way of being, defining the world, etc

22:28

slavery isn't the problem with the current state of affairs; it's this mentality of "i should get to eat while also talking back to my master" that has to go

22:28

many ways, probably. but I think it's naive to think that transition happens all nice and easy like

22:29

!up Cogburn

22:29

Thank you

22:29

I think those of us who get this blockchain bitcoin magic internet money bullshit have the opportunity to demonstrate and lead by example. Quite frankly IDGAF if MP is crazy or I disagree. I think he's doing it right. I think he knows he's doing it right, too :)

22:30

It's a tool that provides an opportunity to do something truly different with the world. To take advantage, we must be different.

22:31

Cogburn: i'm rather curious re: what you believe mircea_popescu is doing. 'right' or otherwise.

22:31

Leading by example.

22:31

"This is my way. Like, don't like, DGAF."

22:31

A choice.

22:31

Cogburn: and which 'way' is that ?

22:31

i mean, what does it concretely mean, in your mind

22:32

Dunno. Not my problem. I know he has one. I know he's passionate about it. That's what I think is important. The rest is how history will remember our efforts.

22:33

let's say i said 'i think dijkstra was doing it right.' that would imply that i am in favour of structured programming, against the use of 'goto', and in favour of 99.999% of programming students being flunked and similar fraction of the practitioners of that profession - being fired.

22:33

if i say that i -disagree- with dijkstra - then i do not believe these things.

22:33

I'm an order out of chaos sort of guy.

22:33

I see what's going on. No issues from me.

22:33

dude who the hell raped the logs.

22:33

Cogburn: are you able to describe even one of the concepts you agree or disagree with mircea_popescu about? or do you just dislike his beard ?

22:34

am i talking to a perl script ?

22:34

late 4/1 joke ?

22:34

btw, anyone ever got rms' new autoreply ? the one where he goes "i'm on a 48 hour delay like mpex" ?

22:35

mircea_popescu: Bryce showed up

22:35

who ?

22:35

mircea_popescu: rms' autoreply << never got, but the 48 hour thing is not, afaik, new. he has someone read the mail and pass it on (or not)

22:35

!s Bryce

22:35

5 results for 'Bryce' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=Bryce

22:35

Hahahah we had a twitter fight a year ago and people think i hate you

22:36

Cogburn: so was it the beard ? or an actual position ?

22:36

I apparently did an interview with a blogger antagonistic to you and I wanted to clarify any guilt by association

22:36

Okay. I did not ever think that bitcoin would outperform BH.

22:36

interview ? who for ? wut ?

22:37

mircea_popescu: With Surf Captial Management kid

22:38

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084140 << magically, i have never seen any of this irl

22:38

Logged on 02-04-2015 14:59:47; asciilifeform: what a crock of shit!

22:38

where is this thing used by millions ?

22:38

mircea_popescu: 'used' has a very peculiar meaning here

22:39

sorta like high fructose syrup is 'used'

22:39

cazalla, Patch.com reports the arrest of a Massachusetts man who sort to purchase a firearm << should be "sought to purchase" ?

22:39

as in, fed to unsuspecting bipedal cattle

22:39

danielpbarron, ty

22:39

but i never seen one.

22:39

how does it even work, you hash the "public key" and then multiply it with something ? sorta halfass rsa ?

22:39

<Cogburn> Hahahah we had a twitter fight a year ago and people think i hate you <<< not people, your friend from coinwhatever website

22:40

mircea_popescu: since it isn't an actual cryptosystem, you will never -see- it. instead, the bank account of that clown and his university 'sees' the royalties from idiot usg affiliates proclaiming to 'use' it.

22:40

ah one of those. mkay.

22:40

http://www.voltage.com/technology/identity-based-encryption << him

22:40

Identity-Based Encryption (IBE), Boneh-Franklin Algorithm, Private Key Generation, Key Certificates, Cryptography Methods | Voltage Security ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCxycx )

22:40

not that the idea is without merit.

22:40

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21184 @ 0.00027029 = 5.7258 BTC [+] {2}

22:41

1) idiot generates a 'public key' by his email, or name, being hashed

22:41

any random string being hashable, any random string could be used as a pubkey, in principle. may take some work to mine a usable privkey to go with it, but...

22:41

2) usg generates a private key to 'go with' the public

22:41

by virtue of the hash being malleable

22:41

then they live happily ever after

22:41

in buttfuck embrace

22:41

lol how is this encryption

22:42

same way american 'food' is food

22:42

no but i mean for srs. this could actually be done correctly

22:42

drive them out of market.

22:42

'encryption-flavoured extruded product'

22:42

(yeah yeah i know, as if)

22:42

correctly?!

22:42

why couldn't i have arbitrary pubkey ?

22:42

you can right now

22:42

exactly.

22:43

e.g. 'vanitygen'

22:43

prolly the bruteforce approach doesn't deliver 100%.

22:44

but the asymmetry is required for honest crypto. i.e. if mr luser can determine a privkey to go with luser@luserdom.com than so can you and i

22:44

hm

22:45

i suppose you're right - this service existing is sufficient prooof what it's serving isn't crypto.

22:45

it's a 'keybase'.

22:45

for all i know, 'keybase' is a licensee

22:45

lol

22:45

i suppose one can patent a chumpatron.

22:45

gotta spend that "seed money" somehow.

22:46

'scheme for relieving idiots of their...'

22:47

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084166 << no, implication is "our readership is moronic"

22:47

Logged on 02-04-2015 15:06:45; asciilifeform: What You Need to Know About the Unsealed Silk Road Docket << i do so hate these 'what you need to know' titles. implication is that no serious person would need to know anything else

22:47

i haven't seen anything as insulting to the intelligence of the reader as 'voltage security co.' in many years.

22:47

because, possibly, the flavour of being targeted at folks who go in for cryptological maths, rather than garden-variety schmucks

22:48

i suppose it's targeted at folks who think the usg is a good idea and windows an operating system.

22:48

it's one thing to pitch 'proof that 1=2' to third-grade children, another - to maths grad students

22:48

depends. stanford grads prolly buy it.

22:48

if mit grads anything to go by.

22:49

on the flip side, it gives an almost p.t. barnum-esque air of loud, profanely farting cynical hucksterism. nostalgic.

22:49

sorta the same feeling i used to get when i was a regular reader of 'secret' forums for spammers

22:49

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084204 << if you recall, that was taken off because that's how sa owned the forum back during mtgox 1 cent days

22:49

Logged on 02-04-2015 15:27:23; nubbins`: wow, the latest DDOS attack against the forum seems to have reinstated the ability to change/add avatars

22:50

so go ahead, sql inject it.

22:50

asciilifeform those forums... sorta tardstalk before the bitcoin.

22:51

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13700 @ 0.00027 = 3.699 BTC [-]

22:51

aha. they even had own 'spamcoins' (using - now, long-dead - centralized spam-money services)

22:51

people are generally stupid in the same ways.

22:51

it is rare to see an entirely novel stupid invented.

22:52

kinda why you'd expect governments to do better than they are, really.

22:53

incidentally, one idea for writersey folks - taxonomy of the meaningfully-different forms of bad crypto.

22:53

token "hey look it's pete" scoop: http://www.contravex.com/2015/04/02/mean-streets/

22:53

Mean Streets. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCAeH8 )

22:53

https://craphound.com/spamsolutions.txt << based possibly on this. or in essay form

22:53

... ( http://bit.ly/1DCAg1J )

22:54

definite flavour of malus enumeratio

22:54

not as a serious guide for humans !

22:54

as a massage.

22:54

jjust like spamsolutions.txt is not a textbook

22:55

enumerations of fallacies - and especially of scams - are not useless

22:55

even if there is a universe full of falsehood. as pointed out, stupidity cuts into equivalence classes.

22:56

( ) Extreme profitability of spam << i take it this was 2000ish ?

22:56

earlier.

22:56

myeah. meanwhile that problem took care of itself.

22:56

iirc written no later than '97

22:57

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084246 << wait. wut ?!

22:57

Logged on 02-04-2015 15:59:45; thestringpuller: no. i'm going to have to cancel for family reasons related to finance

22:58

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084266 << i don't think this will work.

22:58

Logged on 02-04-2015 16:06:28; asciilifeform: nor should nubbins`, or ben_vulpes, or the rest.

22:59

conceivably this will come down to "use so and so, version no later than X, and you will have to either not use sound or use one of these sound cards"

22:59

mircea_popescu: or the other thing i suggested

22:59

!up Cogburn

22:59

what, "posix" ? that's not a thing

22:59

it being, what folks do in school. emulate a machine that is described on half a sheet of paper

23:00

with instruction set such-and-such, this much ram, etc.

23:00

(see rest of thread)

23:00

emulators are seriously a very bad idea for this.

23:00

thank, you but you need not keep voicing me. I'll consider the invitation for the WoT. Glad to clear some things up. Have a great night.

23:00

i can appreciate the ... spherical chicken appeal.

23:00

mircea_popescu: i do this in life. if you have a reasonably-fast computer, it is tolerable.

23:01

now this'd be for -builds-

23:01

not for running bitcoind -in-.

23:01

it's a bad idea.

23:01

it is.

23:01

you're fighting shit with a taller tower. of shit.

23:01

but no one has suggested a good idea.

23:01

how about debian sarge ?

23:02

can i re-create it ?

23:02

without downloading bins

23:02

3.x

23:02

i think you should STILL be able to yes.

23:02

but back in 2005, definitely.

23:02

!up E8888____

23:02

i mean, with my existing compilers.

23:02

with its own. it's a whole complete universe.

23:02

aha so i gotta download bins

23:02

not sure about yours, mebbe worth a shit

23:02

ick.

23:03

shot*

23:03

besides we had someone try specifically it - ben_vulpes ?

23:03

we did /

23:03

and turned out that it has a lying gcc

23:03

no ?

23:03

which includes a type not defined in the src.

23:03

(see yesterday's zoological find)

23:04

http://www.gomerblog.com/2015/04/hospitalist-becomes-own-endless-loop/

23:04

Hospitalist Becomes Own Endless Loop | GomerBlog ... ( http://bit.ly/1DCCpKV )

23:04

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084286 << this is a correct approach, the problem seems to be however that compilers don't work properly.

23:04

Logged on 02-04-2015 16:09:47; mod6: Ok, so say that you have installed via offical docs, bla bla bla. Ok, then our release doesn't work. But we need to fix defects, and I refuse to have this happen going forward. So we need something repeatable.

23:04

asciilifeform i wasn't aware that was on deb sarge.

23:04

ben_vulpes awake ?

23:04

ben_vulpes: what did you use ?

23:05

It was all very surreal. The nurse told me my patient had arrived on the ward. I told her I was the patient. She apparently thought I was making an existential statement and replied arent we all just the sum of our patients and our patience. I know, it doesnt make any sense to me either now, but at the time it was profound, because, you know, dilaudid.

23:05

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-04-2015#1082482

23:05

Logged on 01-04-2015 19:08:25; ben_vulpes: ascii_field, nubbins`: debian 6.0.10

23:05

that is not sarge.

23:05

*

asciilifeform consults table

23:05

that is 3 major revisions later. looks like modern.

23:05

aha.

23:06

mircea_popescu: be so kind as to try the build on one of your debians ?

23:06

untar and ./auto.sh

23:06

i didn't take any across the ocean ;/

23:06

damn.

23:06

well how the fuck was i to know a year later ima be all the way up in thompsoncpp

23:07

but yes, the execration has occured to me a number of times.

23:07

mircea_popescu: i once seriously toyed with the idea of building with borland cpp 3

23:07

you know, -that- one

23:07

then again if THAT didn't work it wouldn't surprise me.

23:07

http://borlandc.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Screenshot1.png

23:07

... ( http://bit.ly/1HpoWoM )

23:08

i still miss that thing.

23:08

yes i had it, my f9 was illegible

23:08

aha

23:08

note btw your ss is in romanian.

23:08

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32427 @ 0.00027 = 8.7553 BTC [-]

23:08

unsurprisingly

23:08

Adlai

BingoBoingo: no, the best part: McSwagger was awakened from a deep sleep by his pager, only to find out that he was being called by his own nurse, apparently because he needed something for sleep

23:09

lol

23:11

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084315 << you're more than welcome to play with an emulator if you wish to broaden your horizon, but it is broadly inadequate for what we're trying to do here.

23:11

Logged on 02-04-2015 16:16:41; nubbins`: so maybe we can start there

23:11

*

pete_dushenski reading logs, smacked with similarities between weiner / cogburn and charlie from mean streets

23:11

mircea_popescu: the problem is that the pc architecture (as a standard that you can hard-hold a vendor to) is dead.

23:12

e.g., i literally can't buy my main pc again.

23:12

this is a problem.

23:12

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFWV-mfMdw8 << if this be the same weiner that keeps derping with seamonster

23:12

Bitcoin Chat With Crypto Mogul Bryce Weiner! - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1HppT0m )

23:12

possibly, very slowly, out of antiquarian collectible parts.

23:12

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25155 @ 0.00027 = 6.7919 BTC [-]

23:12

of fuck knows what provenance.

23:12

but pretending like magic works isn't a solution to it.

23:12

magic?

23:12

yes.

23:13

look, qemu is essentially a hypervisor.

23:13

nope.

23:13

if hypervisors fixed bad osen microsoft'd have been long fixed.

23:13

when used as classical qemu (with accelerator) there is no hypervisor

23:13

can emulate pc on vax

23:13

or vax on pc

23:13

New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/04/federal-agent-sells-firearms-via-darknet-market/

23:14

hypervisor is a very other animal, where certain instructions are emulated ('sensitive' ring0 ones) while most execute naked.

23:14

but only provided the underlying os behaves.

23:14

popular hypervisor: vmware

23:14

mircea_popescu: we have a confusion of terminology here. an emulator is, for instance, 'zsnes' - popular 'super nintendo' emul

23:14

works on soviet 'elbrus' as well as american '486'

23:15

yes.

23:15

and regardless of what the nintendo proggy does, cannot crash the elbrus

23:15

so far this is a hypervisor.

23:15

because we are essentially interpreting the snes instructions

23:15

nope.

23:15

hypervisor has a specific meaning

23:15

"works on another machine. check. client can't crash kernel. check"

23:16

yes. that special meaning is "runs vms"

23:16

actually the rub with hypervisor is that the 'guest' -can- affect the 'host' quite often.

23:16

but this because hypervisor is badly implemented.

23:16

pete_dushenski: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article17061476.html

23:16

Teen son of Canadian Consul General arrested after brother killed in drug deal | Miami Herald Miami Herald ... ( http://bit.ly/1HpqDCK )

23:17

mircea_popescu: the short version of the difference is that a 'hypervisor' emulates -certain- instructions, that are understood to modify the global state of the machine in ways which would allow the guest os to monopolize the hardware (e.g., write a block to the disk at index I) whereas an emulator emulates -all- instructions executed by the guest

23:18

BingoBoingo: how stupid and ballsy are these consul's kids that they "planned to rob the drug dealers "

23:18

asciilifeform a minor point, but anyway.

23:18

why can't they just buy coke from a classmate like normal kids of consuls ?

23:18

pete_dushenski: I dunno, what's going on in the Canadia

23:18

very major point in practice

23:18

pete_dushenski "The teens are the sons of Roxanne Dubé, who only recently assumed the role of consul general in Miami. A former Fulbright scholar, she has extensive diplomatic experience, having worked as an aide in Parliament and as the ambassador to Zimbabwe."

23:18

hypervisor requires host and guest architectures to be same.

23:18

and there you have your problem.

23:18

asciilifeform notrly.

23:19

emulator can be of anything you like, whether the computer from 'apollo' space probe, or one that i made up for the occasion.

23:19

BingoBoingo: not that anything does, but "Wabafiyebazu" isn't that canadian

23:19

plenty of 32 bit run on 64 bit that way for instance.

23:19

32 is subset

23:19

s/does/is

23:19

pete_dushenski: Is Rob Ford contagious?

23:19

x86_64 contains specific provisions for running a process in 'short' (x86) mode

23:20

BingoBoingo: you're closer to derpbama than i to ford ;)

23:20

asciilifeform anyway, granted, it's "a better hypervisor". still runs on another os.

23:20

pete_dushenski: I'll need to get a map to check that

23:20

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30900 @ 0.0002719 = 8.4017 BTC [+]

23:21

mircea_popescu: sometimes, you can take the contents of the emulator and - if it exists and you have it in your collection - run it on physical iron

23:21

sometimes i fall asleep on one girl and wake up atop another.

23:21

same idea.

23:22

i wouldn't propose this for anyone else.

23:22

mircea_popescu: incidentally, this is lieke 90% of what i'd want a 2nd pet for

23:22

2nd 'stator'

23:22

(if fella who turns, is 'rotor')

23:22

inb short : it'd be great if emulators as you conceptually represent one existed and work. they do not. what we need is a distro to set in stone.

23:22

for fucks sake, they exist and i use them every day for past decade.

23:23

are you running this in an emulator ?

23:23

'this' - no

23:23

why not ?

23:23

most of what passes for my day job - yes

23:23

why not << because no reason to take 25x cpu hit

23:23

most of which isn't bitcoind-like

23:24

suppose your emulated bitcoind forks. what do you do ?

23:24

win turing prize.

23:24

yeah well.

23:24

spend on burial.

23:25

anyway the point, again, would not be to ever -run- bitcoind in the dog-slow emulated linux

23:25

but to cross-compile for normal machine (ibmpc, pogo, vax, whatever)

23:26

using -known- set of mechanisms.

23:26

as in, putting an actual cork in the os/libs/cpu/etc

23:26

but this is essentially naive. because, again, the bitcoind is not the code you read, but the binary that runs.

23:26

as in 'here they are and this they shall be in 3015 running on Aldan-XVIII cpu'

23:27

yes, the bin. small enough to eventually disasm & read.

23:27

if your binary that runs can not be run by your golden standard

23:27

can, why not.

23:27

you essentially have managed to divorce a new academia out of engineering

23:27

this is the last thing we want.

23:27

that'd be a monumentally strange thing to do. but not what suggested.

23:27

suggested nailing down a machine spec

23:28

it is what'd happen.

23:28

that can be replicated

23:28

in the way that we are too poor (yes, poor) to do with tangible machine yet.

23:28

how do you distinguish a bug in the os from a bug in the emulator from a bug in the code ?

23:28

that's the thing, bug in emulator is catastrophic

23:28

but think of it as a skyscraper foundation. there is tremendous pressure on it

23:28

so you want me to pull in more code than the openssl. with worse risk outlook.

23:28

and your explanation is... "Well many people checked it"

23:29

mircea_popescu: when you dig out your old laptop with 'pentium I', guess what you're pulling in

23:29

at least emulator code - i can sit down & read.

23:29

try read internals of 'pentium I'

23:29

except your emulator still runs on pentium i in question

23:29

with who knows what dirty hacks everywhere to make it "portabler"

23:30

or soviet 'iskra'

23:30

(incidentally, portability worst fucking idea in computing!)

23:30

or my mips-on-fpga that exists nowhere but my living room

23:30

or, or

23:30

or it runs in my head & a pencil

23:30

asciilifeform i can't see this as anything but "adding more bad code".

23:31

mircea_popescu is right, but in the same way as a fella taking penicillin is 'swallowing poison'

23:31

technically -yes.

23:31

i don't have anything against running test versions of golden-bitcoind on anything, including toasters, gameboys, toasters emulated on gameboys etc

23:31

but that's a different discussion.

23:31

ideally i would not even suggest something as terrifyingly unpleasant as - in effect - giving everyone a 486.

23:31

which is what emulator amounts to.

23:32

but what is the alternative whereby each of us ends up with 1) EXACTLY same machine 2) one we can still get 1000 years later

23:32

or even month later.

23:32

no, we've not even come to the discussion where "it's entirely unclear desktop with bitcoind in quemu can even process blocks in 10 minutes each"

23:32

we're still atthe principle of the matter.

23:32

mircea_popescu: believe or not - can.

23:32

*

asciilifeform admits he tried

23:32

nothing wrong with trying it.

23:33

(on what? modest box circa '07)

23:34

but none of it changes the fundamentally bowel-loosening fact of discovering that 1) extant linuxen are incompatible in eldritch ways 2) that impact bitcoind build

23:35

and 3) static builds never really worked for items of any complexity

23:35

because 4) we have a rusted-solid 'luger' from 1941

23:35

so far, i'm a) chasing whoever the fuck broke the world by making an idiotic libnss and b) unconvinced the problem's more than that dns bs.

23:35

that we tried to fire and somehow surprised

23:35

i think we shot (a) in the head

23:36

hm

23:36

?

23:36

(dns removal. but one more tumour growth left, the external-ip getter)

23:36

mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084194

23:36

Logged on 02-04-2015 15:17:35; asciilifeform: my dns seed snip patch never made it in the realease, did it

23:36

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084387 << ahaha good one.

23:36

Logged on 02-04-2015 16:32:29; nubbins`: but hey. the plural of anecdote is proof, yes?

23:36

asciilifeform THE PROBLEM STILL EXISTS.

23:37

even if not in our code anymore

23:37

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1085084

23:37

Logged on 02-04-2015 21:50:57; asciilifeform: bitcoin does not need dns for anythign!

23:37

mircea_popescu: yes, exists

23:37

well yes. im chasing the culprit. i wish to know who the fuck thought this is a good idea.

23:38

i humbly request a copy of r. stevens's 'tcp/ip' bound in his skin.

23:38

will also accept pike's 'unix prog. envir.'

23:38

more like it.

23:39

*

asciilifeform has a list.

23:39

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084405 << the reason they're doing this is obvious. they want to find bugs.

23:39

Logged on 02-04-2015 16:34:58; jurov: even openbsd prefers to maintain racks of obsolete hardware to running emulators

23:41

must add also that the possibility of emulating a reasonably unix-capable computer is relatively recent. in university 'operating systems' courses in '99 folks were still rebooting actual pc, with floppy, 500 times a day. in 2006 - qemu.

23:41

(and the occasional floppy/pc)

23:41

my brother had one - i had the other

23:41

nobody is disputing it's a very useful tool for many things.

23:41

well, not i at any rate.

23:43

mircea_popescu: do you recall the 'specificity of diddling' thread ?

23:43

yes.

23:43

http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-03-2015#1044648 << for others reading

23:43

Logged on 06-03-2015 23:42:12; asciilifeform: for the benefit of n00bs, i will briefly elaborate

23:44

related.

23:46

http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084446 << lol wait, they came full circle to the actual goal, usg's own bitcoin ?

23:46

Logged on 02-04-2015 16:43:36; asciilifeform: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/urbit-dev/zhMRI9hn4KI/bMYtcr9o5QkJ << unrelated mega-l0l

23:47

"Writing an empty stub is an extremely bad practice and should only be done in desperation, because at the urbit level it produces a system event log that is nonrepeatable, or at least noncompliant with the nock spec. Discrepancies propagate rapidly in any kind of replay. You should be able to turn off all jets and get the same result. This is not practical, but it is practical if you disable everything but a few ba

23:47

sic math functions.

23:47

As a development methodology it's often useful to write hoon that tracks an existing C routine rather than the other way around, but even this needs to be done quite carefully to avoid jet discrepancies."

23:47

i liked that part.

23:52

[MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.0002719 = 3.2356 BTC [+]

23:53

they'll eat their pants before admitting it's 'usg bitcoin'

23:54

well for one thing it's not ok to admit yarvin is orlov in a different color scheme

23:54

lol, what color ?

23:54

for the other it's not ok to admit urbit exists strictly because a) yarvin's chumpatron attempt failed just at the time b) usg was looking for a particular tool

23:54

scooped it up cheapo.

23:55

so i guess two can't admits make it a mindblowing evil thing.

23:55

close. exists because y dropped out of grad school to play original 'dotcom' chumpamatic

23:55

right. but that's half the story.

23:55

and sorta wanted to get back to these two highlights of his youth

23:56

his mantears over bitcoin existing coupled with a certain need for "Expertise" in certain quarters...

23:56

i actually read his 'all bitcoin users will be gassed' thing as honest defeatism

23:56

but can't even tell now.

23:57

the man is not honest.

23:57

im starting to notice a pattern here, he reads exactly like yak guy, once i read yak guy

23:57

brings to mind,

23:57

Orwell: Do you really want to see your children grow up Nazis?

23:57

The youth: Nonsense! You don't suppose the Germans are going to encourage Fascism in this country, do you? They don't want to breed up a race of warriors to fight against them. Their object will be to turn us into slaves. That's why I'm a pacifist. They'll encourage people like me.

23:57

Orwell: And shoot people like me?

23:57

The youth: That would be just too bad.

23:57

Orwell: But why are you so anxious to remain alive?

23:58