Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2021-04-30 | 2021-05-02 → ↓
00:11 xristos hey lisp oldtimer, pls don't ban me
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~ 55 minutes ~
01:07 verisimilitude Who here is the oldtimer?
~ 7 hours 33 minutes ~
08:40 shinohai http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-01#1034922 << Welcome xristos ... do you have a blog or personal website?
08:40 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-01 00:11:42 xristos: hey lisp oldtimer, pls don't ban me
08:45 xristos shinohai: i do but somehow i ended up in the wrong channel, my apologies ;p
~ 2 hours 42 minutes ~
11:28 asciilifeform lol
11:29 asciilifeform $ticker btc usd
11:29 btcinfobot Current BTC price in USD: $57067.58
11:29 asciilifeform !w poll
11:29 watchglass Polling 15 nodes...
11:29 watchglass 185.85.38.54:8333 : Could not connect!
11:29 watchglass 185.163.46.29:8333 : Could not connect!
11:29 watchglass 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.022s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=681378
11:29 watchglass 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=681378
11:29 watchglass 108.31.170.100:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-100.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.105s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=681378 (Operator: asciilifeform)
11:29 watchglass 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=681266
11:29 watchglass 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.175s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=681378
11:29 watchglass 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.144s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=681378 (Operator: whaack)
11:29 watchglass 192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.145s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=681378
11:29 watchglass 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.228s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=681378
11:29 watchglass 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.222s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=681378
11:30 watchglass 84.16.46.130:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
~ 1 hours 15 minutes ~
12:45 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-03-02#1032672 << this is just fascinating, and coincides in some respects with my own theories.
12:45 snsabot Logged on 2021-03-02 12:22:32 asciilifeform: ru writer alex rosov takes the thesis further -- he gives (fairly solid) argument that a decision was made (by bluebloods of 'civilized' world) in 1968 to halt technical progress. ( and, consequently, to nail sovok, because otherwise it'll eat'em, not having 'gotten the memo' that r&d must stop )
12:46 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-03-02#1032666 << any evidence of this? I was researching a similar subject, so I find this fascinating.
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12:46 snsabot Logged on 2021-03-02 12:18:20 asciilifeform: trinque: near as i can tell, the folx who ~factually~ run usa (vs. the muppets who get trotted out for 'elections') are 5+ generation bluebloods
12:51 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-03-02#1032676 << if I may say so, I regard white Americans to be their own, newly formed ethnic group, similar to the Boers of South Africa.
12:51 snsabot Logged on 2021-03-02 12:26:05 trinque: at any rate, my contention is that race is one of the mechanisms by which they pit white kulaks against lower tiers.
12:54 gregorynyssa IMO the sooner they can admit this, and stop claiming to represent white people or Western society at large, the better for all parties involved.
12:55 gregorynyssa as "Neo Saxons" they deserve the right, like every other ethnicity, to fight for their survival and collective interests, etc.
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13:00 gregorynyssa unlike the Boers, the "Neo Saxons" of America still have the plurality/majority of population, and, in many states, clear majority.
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~ 32 minutes ~
13:33 trinque gregorynyssa: you think this "white american" identity stays whole for a historically relevant amount of time?
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13:33 trinque I'm skeptical, as I said in linked thread.
13:35 trinque imho the erosion of that foundational myth is a prime cause of current american instability.
13:38 trinque when I look at california, pacnw, texas, the southeast, new england, the midwest, I see completely distinct places which will fracture when the BRRRRRR holding them together runs out.
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~ 22 minutes ~
14:01 verisimilitude It's lasting despite all of the work so far to destroy it.
14:03 verisimilitude When I look at ``World Star'', affectionately known as ``Worl' Sta, Worl' Sta'', I see a group which no amount of money can make behave.
~ 49 minutes ~
14:53 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-01#1034956 << IIRC regional cultures are less fractured than before.
14:53 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-01 13:38:12 trinque: when I look at california, pacnw, texas, the southeast, new england, the midwest, I see completely distinct places which will fracture when the BRRRRRR holding them together runs out.
14:54 gregorynyssa the southern Midwest eg. Kansas, Missouri, Iowa (I am from Midwest, but northern half) and South used to be enemies
14:55 gregorynyssa today they are both considered "red states." see each other as kin. worship at same churches.
14:57 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-01#1034953 << that is, on a structural level, the purpose of the Alt Right, even if they are reluctant to admit it.
14:57 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-01 13:33:23 trinque: gregorynyssa: you think this "white american" identity stays whole for a historically relevant amount of time?
14:59 gregorynyssa do you think Alt Right is dying? I think it is getting stronger.
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15:01 verisimilitude Going further, it's natural for races to show animosity towards the others; will the technologies which have been shown able to inhibit this, such as television, stay for a historically relevant amount of time?
~ 20 minutes ~
15:21 trinque verisimilitude: your /pol/ sense of race is nonsense ftr.
15:22 trinque spouted like someone looking for a reason to be noteworthy, lacking any other.
15:23 trinque gregorynyssa: what evidence is there that it's getting stronger?
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15:25 trinque upstack, what's the evidence for a coherent "it"?
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15:27 verisimilitude I don't visit 4chan's /pol/. Historically, different peoples don't get along unless they're of similar strengths.
15:27 verisimilitude There are exceptions, sure.
15:28 verisimilitude Anyway, I'd rather discuss programming, so I abstain from the rest of this.
15:29 trinque gregorynyssa: taking the capitol riots as an example, that's evidence, if anything, of the severe decline of the US, not the strength of anything else.
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15:32 * trinque will brb, but this thread has been discussed since the days of the other alt-right thing that wasn't going anywhere, for the same reasons.
15:33 trinque strikes me as the armchair hopes that someone else, somewhere, is doing something, rather than oneself.
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~ 15 minutes ~
15:48 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-01#1034974 << the Capitol riot wasn't among my list of considerations.
15:48 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-01 15:29:32 trinque: gregorynyssa: taking the capitol riots as an example, that's evidence, if anything, of the severe decline of the US, not the strength of anything else.
15:48 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-01#1034969 << Baby Boomers are dying.
15:48 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-01 15:23:03 trinque: gregorynyssa: what evidence is there that it's getting stronger?
15:49 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-01#1034970 << shared beliefs, such as Alt Right's rejection of "mind body dualism," desire to apply Evolutionary theory to everyday problems, appropriation of Nietzschean thought.
15:49 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-01 15:25:03 trinque: upstack, what's the evidence for a coherent "it"?
15:52 trinque where!
15:53 trinque boomers dying are being replaced by whining millenials; what nietzschean thought
15:54 shinohai Re: this thread, I personally think nation that is obsessed with race/gender identity et all is sure sign of empire in sharp decline.
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15:54 trinque shinohai: "shit, nothing distinguishes us, and there's less to go around"
15:54 shinohai (tm) (r)
15:56 trinque gregorynyssa: I would like to know how you arrive at "alt right rejects mind-body dualism"
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15:57 trinque most of them are spouting what christian gargle they can find written on walmart kitsch
15:58 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-01#1034988 << Curtis Yarvin denounced it several times.
15:58 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-01 15:56:26 trinque: gregorynyssa: I would like to know how you arrive at "alt right rejects mind-body dualism"
15:58 gregorynyssa So has Vox Day, Richard Spencer, Jordan Peterson.
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15:59 gregorynyssa * so have ...
16:00 trinque I do not see anyone with significant power on that liast.
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16:00 trinque *list
16:01 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-01#1034994 << that is because all senior leadership-positions are held by Baby Boomers.
16:01 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-01 16:00:33 trinque: I do not see anyone with significant power on that liast.
16:01 gregorynyssa but in another decade, they will be gone.
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16:02 trinque this generation that sits politely waiting for its turn is the same one invoking nietzsche?
16:02 trinque I'm reminded of the servile relationship between gen-x and the boomers
16:03 trinque take peterson, almost killed himself with anxiety meds.
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16:03 feedbot http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2021/jwrd-logs-for-May-2021/ << Fixpoint -- #jwrd Logs for May 2021
16:03 trinque spencer's been doing a fat lot of nothing but larping and promoting his "brand" for decades
16:03 gregorynyssa fair points.
16:04 trinque since we're discussing nietzsche, until man accepts that he's doomed, stop crying, deal with it, etc., he'll hide in the fog of derealization.
16:05 gregorynyssa I think it is worth noting that SJW thought is itself based on a body of assumptions which are not quite Christian, and not quite Atheist.
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16:05 trinque all of it is hiding from the encounter with one's own end.
16:05 gregorynyssa SJW thought is closely tied to the milieu in which the Baby Boomers grew up.
16:06 trinque either mother socialism comforts the badthought away, or fetish-of-power larping distracts, same shit.
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16:06 gregorynyssa without the Baby Boomers, it is going to fall apart.
16:06 trinque absent moving past the fundamental problem, it'll be same shit, different flavor.
16:06 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-01#1035009 << are you suggesting, on a literal level, that people become Lefists in order to cope with the fear of death?
16:06 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-01 16:06:03 trinque: either mother socialism comforts the badthought away, or fetish-of-power larping distracts, same shit.
16:07 trinque no, they become whatever best distractst them.
16:07 trinque *distracts
16:07 trinque bleh, shitty apple keyboard.
16:09 trinque the alt-right return to "traditional thought" - as they perceive it - is itself cargo-cultism for w/e made grandfather less afraid than grandson
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16:09 trinque grandfather's metaphysical world broke in ways grandson is incapable reassembling on the same terms.
16:10 gregorynyssa would you mind going into more detail? how did it break?
16:11 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-01#1035017 << IMO there is no single body of "traditional thought" because people in old times also vigorously argued about what was right and wrong.
16:11 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-01 16:09:02 trinque: the alt-right return to "traditional thought" - as they perceive it - is itself cargo-cultism for w/e made grandfather less afraid than grandson
16:12 gregorynyssa I noticed a distrubing trend that when people say they value "Western traditional thought" without qualification, they basically just mean that they are huge fans of Thomas Carlyle.
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16:13 trinque there was certainly at one point traditional western thought, rooted upon the romans and greeks.
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16:13 trinque at any rate, I'm referring to the alt-right's memberberries, not the truth or falseness of said memberberries.
16:14 trinque the "it" is the atomic self standing before eternal god ever-approaching final judgment
16:15 trinque that being one of possibly innumerable operating systems a person may run.
16:15 gregorynyssa http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-05-01#1035023 << Carroll Quigley and Oswald Spengler both argued that Western civilization excludes Classical. it started with the Dark Ages, and merely appropriated Classical elements on a superficial level.
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16:15 snsabot Logged on 2021-05-01 16:13:10 trinque: there was certainly at one point traditional western thought, rooted upon the romans and greeks.
16:16 trinque really beside the point, this.
16:17 trinque the genesis of the atomic self is recorded in early greek writing, parminedes? discussed by heidegger in What is Called Thinking
16:18 trinque anyhow briefly, I say that the self contemplated here, eternal, singular, has broken.
16:19 trinque and cannot be put back together, based as it was upon the inevitable approach to final judgment.
16:20 trinque we brought up nietzsche; here he is.
16:22 gregorynyssa so is everyone in modern society broken in this way, or only those who have lost faith in God?
16:22 gregorynyssa trinque: interesting way of phrasing the problem, regardless.
16:23 trinque ever read The Origin of Consciousness by Jaynes?
16:24 gregorynyssa trinque: yep.
16:24 trinque proponent of the bicameral hypothesis of mind. for the purposes of this thread, I'm only interested in making reference to there being evidence of mental operating systems preceding atomic ego-self
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16:25 trinque recall he discusses when the Assyrian gods fell silent?
16:25 gregorynyssa of course.
16:25 trinque I would like to meet the person for whom YHWH has not fallen silent.
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16:26 gregorynyssa trinque: you think this shift happened in the last 100-200 years?
16:27 trinque over about that length of time, yes
16:31 gregorynyssa I considered there as being two major shifts in values, though not on the "bicameral mind" scale.
16:32 trinque which are those?
16:32 gregorynyssa one in the late 1600s, and one in the 1960s.
16:33 trinque 1600 being protestantism, or something else?
16:33 gregorynyssa late 1600s is the transition from Puritanism to Hobbes/Locke/Enlightenment.
16:34 gregorynyssa it also coincides with the closing of Germany's Age of Lutheran Orthodoxy in favor of Pietism.
16:35 gregorynyssa also coincides with rise of Freemasonry.
16:36 trinque rise of the belief that one's own faculties can apprehend truth is exactly what killed western metaphysics.
16:37 trinque "I had no need of that hypothesis."
16:38 gregorynyssa yep. the curse of Empiricism.
16:39 gregorynyssa now, 1960s - leftward swing of Hippie movement is IMO just tip of iceberg.
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16:40 trinque to be clear, what can't stand to reason has to go, whether it's jesus or your identity, doesn't matter.
16:40 trinque anyhow continue
16:40 gregorynyssa Carroll Quigley and Leonard Shlain both support the idea that around 1960s there were fundamental changes in way of thinking.
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16:42 gregorynyssa jarring transition of Americans in clothing and way of talking are consequences of this transition, but not the transition itself.
16:43 gregorynyssa Quigley, Shlain both suggest that a sort of "nonverbal communication renaissance" (my term, not theirs) occurred during this time.
16:44 trinque I'd agree, developmental regression society-wide
16:45 gregorynyssa people suddenly became much more sensitive to nonverbal communication. standards for "reading" people increased.
16:45 trinque people began losing the ability to relate to one another.
16:46 gregorynyssa trinque: I would say, people, including very educated people, became less reliant on literary language to express themselves.
16:46 trinque one could discuss cold war psychosis, the effect of drugs, television, or just easy life in the wake of a war won.
16:46 trinque sure, one well-educated can still be decadent.
16:47 gregorynyssa Quigley claims that Yankees (ie. WASPs) had focused on "going wide" with friendships. being friends with society at large rather than with particular people.
16:48 gregorynyssa but during the 1960s, the focus turned to "going deep," ie. cultivating deep and intimate friendships and relatinoships.
16:49 trinque sure, a less charitable rendering is that they got more selfish, less capable of forming larger groups
16:50 gregorynyssa I hadn't thought of that. maybe you are right.
16:51 trinque being more neurotic, the close relationships they form are more codependent, etc
16:51 trinque this trend continues to the atomization of today
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16:52 gregorynyssa ='\
~ 1 hours 21 minutes ~
18:14 verisimilitude I'll be doing some Ada programming today, the first I've done in months; what of you?
~ 43 minutes ~
18:58 shinohai verisimilitude: whatcha programming in Ada ?
19:03 verisimilitude I discuss it in the final paragraph here.
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~ 4 hours 24 minutes ~
23:27 verisimilitude Ada is the most exhausting programming language I know.
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