Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2022-05-06 | 2022-05-08 →
00:32 verisimilitude Also, I might make a video about the whole ecosystem.
00:32 verisimilitude Oh man, we're going to be on Youtube guys.
00:33 verisimilitude I hate idiots who do this.
00:34 verisimilitude A bunch of people go out of their way to avoid the megacorporations, and some jackass decides they can be his topic of study for tithing to the megacorporations.
00:34 verisimilitude I didn't like the book, but this is how ``Brave New World'' ends.
00:44 signpost this was from last year. also stop reading twitter.
00:46 verisimilitude I took a glance because it was linked.
00:47 shinohai vargvikernes.jpg
00:47 signpost addressing everyone, stahp.
00:47 verisimilitude What?
00:53 signpost sorry... (clears throat)
00:53 signpost Thy vulgar regurgitations of social media effluence doth affront mine ears.
00:53 signpost clearer?
01:02 thimbronion bitcoind 53e8c3c3c64bab5794c22b17a04352d311840bc68e8ae1d74f637bd35968de83 installed.
01:03 signpost thimbronion: neato!
01:04 * signpost also has an emacs in there
01:07 signpost thimbronion: interesting that you and shinohai got different hashes for your bitcoind builds. b00g.
01:07 * signpost probably needs to sort the list of files that get hashed. bet that's depending on on-disk order.
01:12 thimbronion was wondeirng about that
01:13 signpost target/src/scripts/ find $FIND_STARTING_POINT -type f | sort
01:13 signpost ^ adding that sort oughta make them uniform. I've done so locally
~ 15 minutes ~
01:29 signpost bitcoind 0775cb2ccc737e224806beeb4978bff59ca0db6f2be7b55c03d08efefb055859 installed. << got this after adding "| sort" and doing /src/pbuild install bitcoind --nodeps --rebuild
01:31 thimbronion Doesn't seem to be an emacs inside the chroot env
01:31 signpost gotta "/src/pbuild install emacs" to get it.
01:31 signpost bootstrap only installs what's required to rebuild the compiler
01:32 verisimilitude Yes, that was clearer, signpost.
01:34 thimbronion wrt twatter I'm fine not poasting in here. I will say that so far I've met 3 interesting people IRL from there.
01:35 thimbronion Actually 4
01:36 verisimilitude I primarily use Twitter through Nitter RSS, because too many artists left to it from Tumblr.
01:37 phf i've added custom support for twitter to my rss reader, and pull the rss via interface. lets me read a handful of accounts without having to drink from the hose
01:37 thimbronion I used nitter for a while but something broke and I wasn't able to get it working again
01:38 verisimilitude I've noticed something mildly interesting: It's becoming more common for idiots in forums to link to Twitter for topics.
01:38 signpost just giving y'all shit. read what you want.
01:38 verisimilitude How long, I wonder, will it be until these people start taking photographs of their colons and telling others to discuss those?
01:38 signpost just good to keep in mind what the incentives and "dark patterns" are on those things.
01:38 phf i read twitter for gandalf the hwite :>
01:39 verisimilitude I've had to switch instances multiple times, thimbronion.
01:39 signpost emacs f447c055b2d912ef35b27f6d4214c428e715fe99c88e7ed292863603de91c2b3 installed. << emacs hash I get with the |sort fix
01:39 * signpost has often found himself suddenly looking up from phone, "how the fuck did I just use twitter for an hour?"
01:42 verisimilitude Oh, so the opium addict thought to give me advice on my poppy seed bagel, did he?
01:43 signpost you're far too preoccupied with identity and perceived status.
01:44 * signpost keeps the social turds off his phone so that "oh I'm just laughing at the idiots" doesn't sneakily become something else.
01:44 signpost as it's designed to do.
01:45 verisimilitude I don't disagree.
01:46 * signpost afk for a bit
01:47 shinohai signpost: Adding your sort fix to and rebuild of bitcoind gives matching hash
01:47 shinohai bitcoind 0775cb2ccc737e224806beeb4978bff59ca0db6f2be7b55c03d08efefb055859 installed.
01:51 thimbronion With the sort change: bitcoind 0775cb2ccc737e224806beeb4978bff59ca0db6f2be7b55c03d08efefb055859 installed.
~ 52 minutes ~
02:43 signpost cool!
~ 18 minutes ~
03:02 * asciilifeform could be the last remaining who never once saw anyffin memorable imho on twatter. well maybe with the exception of rainier joswig's bolix screenshots, back when couldn't run the thing on own desk
03:04 asciilifeform << oh hmm did signpost defuse the boobytrap in gcc where impossible to deterministically link ? neato
03:04 dulapbot Logged on 2022-05-06 21:49:33 thimbronion: With the sort change: bitcoind 0775cb2ccc737e224806beeb4978bff59ca0db6f2be7b55c03d08efefb055859 installed.
03:05 verisimilitude How could GCC be non-deterministic; does it call an RNG or use loosely-initialized values?
03:06 asciilifeform verisimilitude: prng
03:06 asciilifeform seeded with, among other crapola, file timestamps
03:07 verisimilitude Oh, that's not an exaggeration; they do use an RNG of a sorts?
03:07 signpost asciilifeform: defused a few sources of churn, like __DATE__ __TIME__ and -frandom-seed, and I've got a WIP patch to make the linker "spec" (iirc) not contain a timestamp.
03:07 verisimilitude Well, how queer.
03:08 asciilifeform signpost: very nifty
03:08 signpost but that hash is of a concatenation of the build-file and other sources.
03:08 signpost and then there will eventually be a mapping of that to expected binary output hash.
~ 4 hours 12 minutes ~
07:21 verisimilitude I just noticed Kolibri OS has never been mentioned here before.
07:21 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-22 16:45:48 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: perhaps oughta elaborate. in context, 'make sense when objdumped' meaning, a la e.g. 'm', weighing next to nuffin and invoking no external libs
07:23 verisimilitude I've not used it before.
~ 6 hours 59 minutes ~
14:23 asciilifeform verisimilitude: was mentioned a rather long time ago under former name, 'menuet'. imho 'eiffel's tower from toothpicks' curio, rather than useful item.
14:23 dulapbot (trilema) 2014-06-10 asciilifeform: for unsatisfied masochist - 'menuet'
14:24 asciilifeform ( given as there are no actual ~ideas~ in there, is simply 'what if unixlike in asm' )
14:25 asciilifeform currently claims to support modern gpu and nic however, these may be worth lifting.
14:25 asciilifeform supposing actually worx
~ 2 hours 53 minutes ~
17:18 signpost << we're not doing fucking democracy.
17:18 dulapbot Logged on 2022-05-05 05:51:21 crtdaydreams: 2) Employs the use of a wot in which several peers can sign to say that "x key belongs to y handle" which can be automated. A simple "majority rules" would determine whether or not that peer can lay claim to that nick.
17:19 signpost (because obviously, *who says* what the proper "vote" count for such a thing is)
17:21 signpost I also don't see what the contents of my /src/wot directory have to do with nick-collision-avoidance. v does not depend on whether I call the keys in there fart1.asc, fart2.asc, etc.
17:23 signpost re: pest, if there's a way to... huehue... "mint" a unique nick I will be surprised if that process doesn't look like "proof of work".
17:26 signpost unrelatedly, an entomological specimin from pentacle research.
17:27 signpost 'How about your "deterministic build" tools just learn to ignore that suffix?' << exemplar of the economic and political failure of open source.
17:28 signpost "Isn't lying to yourself that your problem is solved just as good as fixing your problem?"
17:29 signpost bureaucracies form because there's a type of hominid that would rather be empowered to tell the ambitious to "eat shit" than produce anything themselves.
17:30 signpost there is no use for these.
17:40 shinohai signpost: did I miss something about pentacle chroot & networking? (not able to wget, etc.)
17:46 shinohai nm, just like Gentoo, gotta copy `resolv.conf` derp
~ 19 minutes ~
18:05 shinohai Made my first pentacle pbuild of jonsykkel's smalpest, love this shit.
18:09 signpost yep that's all it should need, will be mentioned in a writeup
18:09 signpost and nice!
18:10 shinohai Now if only I could figure out how to sbcl on here xD
18:13 signpost I've tossed clisp in /src/work but haven't finished, lemme see if it builds.
18:13 signpost but yeah, will need clisp to buttstrap sbcl
18:14 signpost looks like my WIP pbuild of clisp actually snuck into the tarball
18:14 signpost << needed at least this patch also.
18:14 shinohai oh hey yeah I see clisp pbuild now
18:15 signpost but no src in there, since I hadn't cut vpatches yet.
~ 20 minutes ~
18:35 signpost might've gotten that working over here. had to tweak __DATE__ and __TIME__ in CPPFLAGS, and change ./configure flags for clisp.
18:37 signpost will rebuild the entire system now and see if the CPPFLAGS are acceptable to everything else (added quoting, not sure why the other builds didn't care that the quoting wasn't there...)
18:39 asciilifeform << recall, asciilifeform at one pt suggested a powism. imho is Wrong Thing in almost any conceivable case, and oughta be used only when no possible alternative -- as demands difficulty ratchet & btc-style consensus grind, massive can of worms
18:39 dulapbot Logged on 2022-05-07 13:21:39 signpost: re: pest, if there's a way to... huehue... "mint" a unique nick I will be surprised if that process doesn't look like "proof of work".
18:41 signpost seems like something to avoid "solving" until can be done without the scarequotes.
18:42 * asciilifeform satisfied that powism and nothing-to-the-stranger system are physically contradictory
18:42 asciilifeform (i.e. no possible way to communicate current difficulty)
18:43 asciilifeform ( see also e.g. )
18:43 dulapbot Logged on 2021-07-01 18:18:30 asciilifeform: gregory4: peer can't 'set own difficulty' because this would require answering packets which come in w/ insufficient pow
18:43 signpost I don't see much harm if shinohai labels our peering "goatfucker". what someone calls you is conceivably their business.
18:44 asciilifeform signpost: thrd was re l2+ handles
18:44 asciilifeform the only place where the problem exists
18:44 signpost right, but perhaps the authority on that is whomever relays that message.
18:44 signpost "hi asciilifeform, this is my friend shinohaiiii"
18:45 shinohai But muh democracy
18:45 asciilifeform is how it worx nao. l1relayer[l2+handle]
18:45 signpost yep, doesn't bug me as is at all.
18:45 signpost without a direct relationship with the person you can't really know more.
18:47 asciilifeform imho the problem of l2+ handle uniqueness is worth solving, to the extent can be solved.
18:47 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-27 09:45:03 PeterL: but say I want to peer with both bobs, how is that handled?
18:47 asciilifeform ( 'but not further' )
18:48 asciilifeform << lulzy
18:48 dulapbot Logged on 2022-05-07 13:24:30 signpost: unrelatedly, an entomological specimin from pentacle research.
18:48 shinohai Dr. Seuss already solved that with "Thing 1" and "Thing 2".
18:48 asciilifeform shinohai: well atm no watertight way to assign the '1' and '2' there
18:49 asciilifeform is the problem statement to begin with.
18:49 dulapbot Logged on 2022-05-05 12:53:44 asciilifeform: aim there is to make all l2+ speakers ~distinguishable~
19:01 shinohai $ticker btc usd
19:01 busybot Current BTC price in USD: $35890.49
19:02 asciilifeform cheapcoinz!
19:08 * signpost eagerly awaits the wailing and gnashing of teeth.
19:18 verisimilitude One simple solution is as follows: Two bobs enter, but only one bob exits.
19:18 dulapbot Logged on 2022-01-27 09:45:03 PeterL: but say I want to peer with both bobs, how is that handled?
19:19 whaack <-- lol at the side-by-side of the debug printouts as a perfomrmance marker, then following a link from there "Note that no Bitcoin implementation strictly fully validates the entire chain history by default. As a performance improvement, most of them don’t validate signatures
19:19 bitbot Logged on 2022-05-06 23:09:45 billymg: lol btw was searching twitter the other day for mentions (out of vanity, purely) and saw this:
19:19 whaack before a certain point in time. This is done under the assumption that it would be very difficult to get a fraudulent block hash through peer review when updating the code."
19:20 signpost see also: "/dev/null is the fastest write-only memory"
19:21 shinohai kek
19:23 verisimilitude
~ 18 minutes ~
19:42 asciilifeform << this is the problem statement, not solution, lol
19:42 dulapbot Logged on 2022-05-07 15:17:12 verisimilitude: One simple solution is as follows: Two bobs enter, but only one bob exits.
19:43 asciilifeform << lol
19:43 dulapbot Logged on 2022-05-07 15:22:13 verisimilitude:
~ 1 hours 24 minutes ~
21:07 whaack !w poll
21:07 watchglass Polling 15 nodes...
21:07 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.082s) V=70001 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735366
21:07 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.112s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735366
21:07 watchglass : Alive: (0.022s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=735366 (Operator: whaack)
21:07 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.158s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735366 (Operator: asciilifeform)
21:07 watchglass : Alive: (0.204s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735366
21:07 watchglass : Alive: (0.339s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735366 (Operator: asciilifeform)
21:07 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.315s) V=88888 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735366
21:08 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.364s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=734613
21:08 watchglass : Could not connect!
21:08 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.606s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735120
21:08 watchglass : ( Alive: (0.104s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=733960
21:08 watchglass : Alive: (0.962s) V=99999 (/ Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr= Blocks=579780 (Operator: whaack)
21:09 watchglass : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
21:09 watchglass : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
21:09 watchglass : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
21:10 whaack ~2 months to get 579,780 blox, no manual intervention
21:10 whaack (using asciilifeform cement)
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