00:32 |
verisimilitude |
Also, I might make a video about the whole ecosystem. |
00:32 |
verisimilitude |
Oh man, we're going to be on Youtube guys. |
00:33 |
verisimilitude |
I hate idiots who do this. |
00:34 |
verisimilitude |
A bunch of people go out of their way to avoid the megacorporations, and some jackass decides they can be his topic of study for tithing to the megacorporations. |
00:34 |
verisimilitude |
I didn't like the book, but this is how ``Brave New World'' ends. |
00:44 |
signpost |
this was from last year. also stop reading twitter. |
00:46 |
verisimilitude |
I took a glance because it was linked. |
00:47 |
shinohai |
vargvikernes.jpg |
00:47 |
signpost |
addressing everyone, stahp. |
00:47 |
verisimilitude |
What? |
00:53 |
signpost |
sorry... (clears throat) |
00:53 |
signpost |
Thy vulgar regurgitations of social media effluence doth affront mine ears. |
00:53 |
signpost |
clearer? |
01:02 |
thimbronion |
bitcoind 53e8c3c3c64bab5794c22b17a04352d311840bc68e8ae1d74f637bd35968de83 installed. |
01:03 |
signpost |
thimbronion: neato! |
01:04 |
* |
signpost also has an emacs in there |
01:07 |
signpost |
thimbronion: interesting that you and shinohai got different hashes for your bitcoind builds. b00g. |
01:07 |
* |
signpost probably needs to sort the list of files that get hashed. bet that's depending on on-disk order. |
01:12 |
thimbronion |
was wondeirng about that |
01:13 |
signpost |
target/src/scripts/world.sh#36 find $FIND_STARTING_POINT -type f | sort |
01:13 |
signpost |
^ adding that sort oughta make them uniform. I've done so locally |
| |
~ 15 minutes ~ |
01:29 |
signpost |
bitcoind 0775cb2ccc737e224806beeb4978bff59ca0db6f2be7b55c03d08efefb055859 installed. << got this after adding "| sort" and doing /src/pbuild install bitcoind --nodeps --rebuild |
| |
↖ |
01:31 |
thimbronion |
Doesn't seem to be an emacs inside the chroot env |
01:31 |
signpost |
gotta "/src/pbuild install emacs" to get it. |
01:31 |
signpost |
bootstrap only installs what's required to rebuild the compiler |
01:32 |
verisimilitude |
Yes, that was clearer, signpost. |
01:34 |
thimbronion |
wrt twatter I'm fine not poasting in here. I will say that so far I've met 3 interesting people IRL from there. |
01:35 |
thimbronion |
Actually 4 |
01:36 |
verisimilitude |
I primarily use Twitter through Nitter RSS, because too many artists left to it from Tumblr. |
01:37 |
phf |
i've added custom support for twitter to my rss reader, and pull the rss via nitter.net interface. lets me read a handful of accounts without having to drink from the hose |
01:37 |
thimbronion |
I used nitter for a while but something broke and I wasn't able to get it working again |
01:38 |
verisimilitude |
I've noticed something mildly interesting: It's becoming more common for idiots in forums to link to Twitter for topics. |
01:38 |
signpost |
just giving y'all shit. read what you want. |
01:38 |
verisimilitude |
How long, I wonder, will it be until these people start taking photographs of their colons and telling others to discuss those? |
01:38 |
signpost |
just good to keep in mind what the incentives and "dark patterns" are on those things. |
01:38 |
phf |
i read twitter for gandalf the hwite :> |
01:39 |
verisimilitude |
I've had to switch instances multiple times, thimbronion. |
01:39 |
signpost |
emacs f447c055b2d912ef35b27f6d4214c428e715fe99c88e7ed292863603de91c2b3 installed. << emacs hash I get with the |sort fix |
01:39 |
* |
signpost has often found himself suddenly looking up from phone, "how the fuck did I just use twitter for an hour?" |
01:42 |
verisimilitude |
Oh, so the opium addict thought to give me advice on my poppy seed bagel, did he? |
01:43 |
signpost |
you're far too preoccupied with identity and perceived status. |
01:44 |
* |
signpost keeps the social turds off his phone so that "oh I'm just laughing at the idiots" doesn't sneakily become something else. |
01:44 |
signpost |
as it's designed to do. |
01:45 |
verisimilitude |
I don't disagree. |
01:46 |
* |
signpost afk for a bit |
01:47 |
shinohai |
signpost: Adding your sort fix to world.sh and rebuild of bitcoind gives matching hash |
01:47 |
shinohai |
bitcoind 0775cb2ccc737e224806beeb4978bff59ca0db6f2be7b55c03d08efefb055859 installed. |
| |
↖ |
01:51 |
thimbronion |
With the sort change: bitcoind 0775cb2ccc737e224806beeb4978bff59ca0db6f2be7b55c03d08efefb055859 installed. |
| |
↖ ↖ |
| |
~ 52 minutes ~ |
02:43 |
signpost |
cool! |
| |
~ 18 minutes ~ |
03:02 |
* |
asciilifeform could be the last remaining who never once saw anyffin memorable imho on twatter. well maybe with the exception of rainier joswig's bolix screenshots, back when couldn't run the thing on own desk |
03:04 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-06#1100462 << oh hmm did signpost defuse the boobytrap in gcc where impossible to deterministically link ? neato |
03:04 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-06 21:49:33 thimbronion: With the sort change: bitcoind 0775cb2ccc737e224806beeb4978bff59ca0db6f2be7b55c03d08efefb055859 installed. |
03:05 |
verisimilitude |
How could GCC be non-deterministic; does it call an RNG or use loosely-initialized values? |
03:06 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: prng |
03:06 |
asciilifeform |
seeded with, among other crapola, file timestamps |
03:07 |
verisimilitude |
Oh, that's not an exaggeration; they do use an RNG of a sorts? |
03:07 |
signpost |
asciilifeform: defused a few sources of churn, like __DATE__ __TIME__ and -frandom-seed, and I've got a WIP patch to make the linker "spec" (iirc) not contain a timestamp. |
03:07 |
verisimilitude |
Well, how queer. |
03:08 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: very nifty |
03:08 |
signpost |
but that hash is of a concatenation of the build-file and other sources. |
03:08 |
signpost |
and then there will eventually be a mapping of that to expected binary output hash. |
| |
~ 4 hours 12 minutes ~ |
07:21 |
verisimilitude |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-03-22#1087182 I just noticed Kolibri OS has never been mentioned here before. |
07:21 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-03-22 16:45:48 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: perhaps oughta elaborate. in context, 'make sense when objdumped' meaning, a la e.g. 'm', weighing next to nuffin and invoking no external libs |
07:23 |
verisimilitude |
I've not used it before. |
| |
~ 6 hours 59 minutes ~ |
14:23 |
asciilifeform |
verisimilitude: was mentioned a rather long time ago under former name, 'menuet'. imho 'eiffel's tower from toothpicks' curio, rather than useful item. |
14:23 |
dulapbot |
(trilema) 2014-06-10 asciilifeform: for unsatisfied masochist - 'menuet' |
14:24 |
asciilifeform |
( given as there are no actual ~ideas~ in there, is simply 'what if unixlike in asm' ) |
14:25 |
asciilifeform |
currently claims to support modern gpu and nic however, these may be worth lifting. |
14:25 |
asciilifeform |
supposing actually worx |
| |
~ 2 hours 53 minutes ~ |
17:18 |
signpost |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-05#1100135 << we're not doing fucking democracy. |
17:18 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-05 05:51:21 crtdaydreams: 2) Employs the use of a wot in which several peers can sign to say that "x key belongs to y handle" which can be automated. A simple "majority rules" would determine whether or not that peer can lay claim to that nick. |
17:19 |
signpost |
(because obviously, *who says* what the proper "vote" count for such a thing is) |
17:21 |
signpost |
I also don't see what the contents of my /src/wot directory have to do with nick-collision-avoidance. v does not depend on whether I call the keys in there fart1.asc, fart2.asc, etc. |
17:23 |
signpost |
re: pest, if there's a way to... huehue... "mint" a unique nick I will be surprised if that process doesn't look like "proof of work". |
| |
↖ |
17:26 |
signpost |
unrelatedly, an entomological specimin from pentacle research. |
| |
↖ |
17:27 |
signpost |
'How about your "deterministic build" tools just learn to ignore that suffix?' << exemplar of the economic and political failure of open source. |
17:28 |
signpost |
"Isn't lying to yourself that your problem is solved just as good as fixing your problem?" |
17:29 |
signpost |
bureaucracies form because there's a type of hominid that would rather be empowered to tell the ambitious to "eat shit" than produce anything themselves. |
17:30 |
signpost |
there is no use for these. |
17:40 |
shinohai |
signpost: did I miss something about pentacle chroot & networking? (not able to wget, etc.) |
17:46 |
shinohai |
nm, just like Gentoo, gotta copy `resolv.conf` derp |
| |
~ 19 minutes ~ |
18:05 |
shinohai |
Made my first pentacle pbuild of jonsykkel's smalpest, love this shit. |
18:09 |
signpost |
yep that's all it should need, will be mentioned in a writeup |
18:09 |
signpost |
and nice! |
18:10 |
shinohai |
Now if only I could figure out how to sbcl on here xD |
18:13 |
signpost |
I've tossed clisp in /src/work but haven't finished, lemme see if it builds. |
18:13 |
signpost |
but yeah, will need clisp to buttstrap sbcl |
18:14 |
signpost |
looks like my WIP pbuild of clisp actually snuck into the tarball |
18:14 |
signpost |
https://git.alpinelinux.org/aports/plain/community/clisp/no-page.h.patch << needed at least this patch also. |
18:14 |
shinohai |
oh hey yeah I see clisp pbuild now |
18:15 |
signpost |
but no src in there, since I hadn't cut vpatches yet. |
| |
~ 20 minutes ~ |
18:35 |
signpost |
might've gotten that working over here. had to tweak __DATE__ and __TIME__ in CPPFLAGS, and change ./configure flags for clisp. |
18:37 |
signpost |
will rebuild the entire system now and see if the CPPFLAGS are acceptable to everything else (added quoting, not sure why the other builds didn't care that the quoting wasn't there...) |
18:39 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-07#1100488 << recall, asciilifeform at one pt suggested a powism. imho is Wrong Thing in almost any conceivable case, and oughta be used only when no possible alternative -- as demands difficulty ratchet & btc-style consensus grind, massive can of worms |
18:39 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-07 13:21:39 signpost: re: pest, if there's a way to... huehue... "mint" a unique nick I will be surprised if that process doesn't look like "proof of work". |
18:41 |
signpost |
seems like something to avoid "solving" until can be done without the scarequotes. |
| |
↖ |
18:42 |
* |
asciilifeform satisfied that powism and nothing-to-the-stranger system are physically contradictory |
| |
↖ |
18:42 |
asciilifeform |
(i.e. no possible way to communicate current difficulty) |
18:43 |
asciilifeform |
( see also e.g. ) |
18:43 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2021-07-01 18:18:30 asciilifeform: gregory4: peer can't 'set own difficulty' because this would require answering packets which come in w/ insufficient pow |
18:43 |
signpost |
I don't see much harm if shinohai labels our peering "goatfucker". what someone calls you is conceivably their business. |
18:44 |
asciilifeform |
signpost: thrd was re l2+ handles |
18:44 |
asciilifeform |
the only place where the problem exists |
18:44 |
signpost |
right, but perhaps the authority on that is whomever relays that message. |
18:44 |
signpost |
"hi asciilifeform, this is my friend shinohaiiii" |
18:45 |
shinohai |
But muh democracy |
18:45 |
asciilifeform |
is how it worx nao. l1relayer[l2+handle] |
18:45 |
signpost |
yep, doesn't bug me as is at all. |
18:45 |
signpost |
without a direct relationship with the person you can't really know more. |
18:47 |
asciilifeform |
imho the problem of l2+ handle uniqueness is worth solving, to the extent can be solved. |
| |
↖ |
18:47 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-27 09:45:03 PeterL: but say I want to peer with both bobs, how is that handled? |
18:47 |
asciilifeform |
( 'but not further' ) |
18:48 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-07#1100489 << lulzy |
18:48 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-07 13:24:30 signpost: unrelatedly, an entomological specimin from pentacle research. |
18:48 |
shinohai |
Dr. Seuss already solved that with "Thing 1" and "Thing 2". |
18:48 |
asciilifeform |
shinohai: well atm no watertight way to assign the '1' and '2' there |
18:49 |
asciilifeform |
is the problem statement to begin with. |
18:49 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-05 12:53:44 asciilifeform: aim there is to make all l2+ speakers ~distinguishable~ |
19:01 |
shinohai |
$ticker btc usd |
19:01 |
busybot |
Current BTC price in USD: $35890.49 |
19:02 |
asciilifeform |
cheapcoinz! |
19:08 |
* |
signpost eagerly awaits the wailing and gnashing of teeth. |
19:18 |
verisimilitude |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-27#1076915 One simple solution is as follows: Two bobs enter, but only one bob exits. |
| |
↖ |
19:18 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-01-27 09:45:03 PeterL: but say I want to peer with both bobs, how is that handled? |
19:19 |
whaack |
http://logs.bitdash.io/asciilifeform/2022-05-06#1100406 <-- lol at the side-by-side of the debug printouts as a perfomrmance marker, then following a link from there https://blog.lopp.net/2020-bitcoin-node-performance-tests/ "Note that no Bitcoin implementation strictly fully validates the entire chain history by default. As a performance improvement, most of them don’t validate signatures |
19:19 |
bitbot |
Logged on 2022-05-06 23:09:45 billymg: lol btw was searching twitter the other day for bitdash.io mentions (out of vanity, purely) and saw this: https://twitter.com/raw_avocado/status/1489280497540902919 |
19:19 |
whaack |
before a certain point in time. This is done under the assumption that it would be very difficult to get a fraudulent block hash through peer review when updating the code." |
19:20 |
signpost |
see also: "/dev/null is the fastest write-only memory" |
19:21 |
shinohai |
kek |
19:23 |
verisimilitude |
https://devnull-as-a-service.com |
| |
↖ |
| |
~ 18 minutes ~ |
19:42 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-07#1100537 << this is the problem statement, not solution, lol |
19:42 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-07 15:17:12 verisimilitude: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-27#1076915 One simple solution is as follows: Two bobs enter, but only one bob exits. |
19:43 |
asciilifeform |
http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-07#1100544 << lol |
19:43 |
dulapbot |
Logged on 2022-05-07 15:22:13 verisimilitude: https://devnull-as-a-service.com |
| |
~ 1 hours 24 minutes ~ |
21:07 |
whaack |
!w poll |
21:07 |
watchglass |
Polling 15 nodes... |
21:07 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735366 |
21:07 |
watchglass |
54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.112s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735366 |
21:07 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.022s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=735366 (Operator: whaack) |
21:07 |
watchglass |
71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.158s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735366 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
21:07 |
watchglass |
208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.204s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735366 |
21:07 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.339s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735366 (Operator: asciilifeform) |
21:07 |
watchglass |
54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.315s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735366 |
21:08 |
watchglass |
94.176.238.102:8333 : (2ppf.s.time4vps.cloud) Alive: (0.364s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=734613 |
21:08 |
watchglass |
75.106.222.93:8333 : Could not connect! |
21:08 |
watchglass |
103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.606s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735120 |
21:08 |
watchglass |
82.79.58.192:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.104s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=733960 |
21:08 |
watchglass |
103.6.212.28:8333 : Alive: (0.962s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=579780 (Operator: whaack) |
21:09 |
watchglass |
143.202.160.10:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.) |
21:09 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.26:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.) |
21:09 |
watchglass |
205.134.172.6:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.) |
21:10 |
whaack |
~2 months to get 579,780 blox, no manual intervention |
21:10 |
whaack |
(using asciilifeform cement) |