Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2022-04-19 | 2022-04-21 →
00:00 asciilifeform today not only programmers but even monopolists mostly crib from ancient playbook rather than inventing anyffin.
00:00 dulapbot (trilema) 2014-03-25 asciilifeform: - How come they use the word "sommelier"? - he asked yet another stupid question, - So many different professions, but only one word...
00:00 verisimilitude Now I recall plenty of pizza places use an oven design with a conveyor belt, allowing as many pizzas as will fit to pass through one-after-the-other, and this is about as good as it gets.
00:01 asciilifeform verisimilitude: is how not only industrial bakeries, but e.g. pcb manufacturers work
00:01 verisimilitude Mass printing also uses such.
00:01 asciilifeform and for that matter any industrial process with seriously heavy capital gear, tries to keep 100% (or as duty cycle allows) booked
00:02 verisimilitude It's only for how fast they are, that we don't see computers as slow as the truly are.
00:02 asciilifeform oblig
00:02 verisimilitude It's only for how fast they are, that we don't see computers to be as slow as they truly are.
00:02 verisimilitude That's the pen article, right?
00:03 asciilifeform aha
00:03 verisimilitude I like to liken computers to transportation.
00:03 verisimilitude Imagine if we only had four-seat cars, and no planes or trains.
00:04 verisimilitude APL is a train.
00:04 asciilifeform four seat cars w/ four brake and gas pedals, lol
00:04 verisimilitude Oh my, yes.
00:06 asciilifeform << see e.g.
00:06 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-19 19:09:55 verisimilitude: The issue is copyright.
00:18 asciilifeform meanwhile in nifty pages on the folklore thing.
00:18 asciilifeform 'The basic Mac architecture was very spare, („TIGHT!” as the teenagers now say): about 32 ICs not counting the 68000 and the 16 RAM chips. There was the Timing State Machine (TSM), made out of a PAL and some flipflops; the Linear Address Generator (LAG) made out of a PAL and a couple of counters; the Bus Mgmt Unit (BMU) PAL, 4 multiplexors for the RAM addressing, 2 EPROMs, some bus drivers, a video output shift reg
00:18 asciilifeform ister, and the 6522 Peripheral Interface Adapter (PIA) which had 16 programmable I/O lines, which handled the keyboard and mouse interfaces and some other tasks. That was the core architecture, to which was added the dual serial ports, the internal and external floppy drive ports, the real-time clock chip, and the sound output. The PALs were the Programmable Array Logic parts made by MMI, which allowed one to write out
00:18 asciilifeform put logic equations to define each of the 8 outputs. They were fairly power-hungry (by today’s standards at least) but were cheap and flexible and Burrell put them to good use.'
00:19 asciilifeform 'The underside of the wire-wrap protos was of course a maze of wires. One morning we were amazed to find that one of the protos was badly scorched... it turned out that late the night before, Burrell had been making some changes and managed to get power and ground shorted together somehow, and in his impatience to get the proto back up, he decided to use ‘brute force’ by removing all the chips and connecting 120VAC
00:19 asciilifeform across the power and ground in an attempt to ‘burn out’ the short.... a misguided attempt, as one would expect! I don’t that proto was ever revived.'
~ 23 minutes ~
00:42 verisimilitude Here's my favourite.
~ 42 minutes ~
01:25 asciilifeform << imho just as possible nao to create, and in same vein, as prev. yes, will have fewer hands,
01:25 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-19 18:34:12 signpost: only interesting thing to say about tmsr is what better men would've created, or even better, shall.
01:26 asciilifeform ... but again imho much of what the 'moar hands' were doing, was in certifiably dead ends (e.g. the 'isp in third world' misadventure)
01:26 dulapbot Logged on 2022-03-31 23:49:04 asciilifeform: crtdaydreams: link was moar re 'there aint such a thing as an off-grid isp'
01:26 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-07 23:05:25 asciilifeform: ... and costs 10x less than piz cage ( let's say 5x, moar exactly, given that there's ~half of errything )
01:28 asciilifeform ( or asciilifeform's misadventure, or or. )
01:28 dulapbot Logged on 2021-11-15 00:08:52 asciilifeform: bonechewer: for background info, the cost of fabricating the 1st 100 FGs was ~5k usd. and that's not counting asciilifeform's time , or 1st microbatch of prototypes with defective solder joins , asciilifeform's microscopy time and fight w/ the board people, etc etc
01:32 asciilifeform ( see also re subj )
01:32 dulapbot Logged on 2020-08-26 15:40:40 asciilifeform: PeterL: virtually all of'em went to l1 folx
01:33 signpost possible in all times and places to assemble and be greater men.
01:33 asciilifeform surely
01:34 signpost in tales of lesser men,
01:35 signpost "EU is set to declare a full embargo on Russian oil after this weekend's French election"
01:36 asciilifeform ( re 'assemble', see also... )
01:36 asciilifeform signpost: but not gas, lol
01:36 asciilifeform 'god grant me escape from sin, but not just yet!'(augustine)
01:36 signpost ssshhh, very serious embargo
01:36 asciilifeform lel
01:39 asciilifeform 'will buy tram ticket! and then walk! to spite the conductor!'(tm)(r)(ru)
01:42 asciilifeform signpost: the interesting corollary is that also possible to assemble and 'be lesser men' (reddit et al.)
01:42 asciilifeform ( or other failure modes, like when folx walk off cliffs under command of lunatic )
01:43 signpost absolutely possible; the manner of interacting determines everything.
01:44 asciilifeform whether high pass filter for 'bell curve' is installed, also plays in.
01:44 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-19 13:58:24 asciilifeform: at one time there was an accidental iq filter in place.
01:45 asciilifeform or, say, whether can avoid the 'prestige pilfering' which nailed opensores.
01:45 asciilifeform ( re which 'dun have anyffin for rats to eat, and you'll have no rats' proverb applies )
01:48 * asciilifeform recalls endless parade of visitors in #ba, #t, begging for coin, or more often for 'nod of approval' by fuhrer
~ 28 minutes ~
02:16 shinohai << In honor of the 30th anniversary of Waco siege, I propose calling ourselves "Branch Derpidians".
02:16 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-19 18:25:34 signpost: sounds like an echo of "no republic without mp" but I'm not going to keep trying to infer.
02:29 asciilifeform lol
~ 2 hours 33 minutes ~
05:02 verisimilitude I agree with shinohai.
~ 50 minutes ~
05:53 adlai << did you skip 'instead of' clause? it's important; some sort of daily / hourly / statistic of the liquishit level is imho critical, to prevent frog boiling
05:53 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-19 16:55:03 asciilifeform: << 'ignore' ? cuz nobody wants GBs of liquishit pumped to his console, lolwtf
05:57 adlai << iirc, standard tournament Chess rules do allow this, although the third repetition causes the match to end in a draw, with players' ratings adjusted partially towards their midpoint; the game requiring novel situations in each move is Go, with the superko rule variation.
05:57 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-19 17:08:30 asciilifeform: ill-formed v inputs come in 3 equiv. classes -- ill-syntaxed (i.e. can't parse, or one of a pair of patch, or its sig -- missing) ; ill-connected ( topological 'islands' on graph ) ; cyclical ( i.e. commits what is prohibited in chess, a return to previous state of game board ) .
05:58 adlai iirc the 'superko' rule is only necessary for situations where there are multiple simultaneous ko fights, and then localized application of the ko rule can lead the game into a loop
06:09 adlai << I had a brain MRI requested, and thanks to the doctors not managing to make any easy diagnosis before this, insurance covered, so it was in the local public hospital; it has iirc four machines, with a queue of about a dozen sad folks, and a small army of technicians and nurses preparing ports for injecting contrast agents,
06:09 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-19 20:00:21 asciilifeform: and for that matter any industrial process with seriously heavy capital gear, tries to keep 100% (or as duty cycle allows) booked
06:09 adlai briefing folks about procedure, etc
06:10 adlai the machines themselves run 24/7, and when he entered the room for injecting the contrast agent, the technician wasalmost sprinting to save time
06:11 * adlai half-hoped for interesting results... few weeks later, gets nice letter, "MRI found normal brain, nothing notable."
06:21 signpost for what were you looking for a cause?
06:23 * signpost had one of those after an ugly bar fight a few years ago. neither party looked good after.
06:23 signpost brain was totally fine, but I checked because the thing started with a sucker-punch, and me hitting concrete.
06:24 signpost apparently I got up in a rage. had a standing concussion, so the next thing I can recall is bellowing at police for not arresting the other guy.
06:26 signpost weirdest thing was I didn't know the other guy, hadn't talked to him. either mistaken identity or just crazy.
06:26 adlai one of the doctors suspected that I had copper retention, which apparently causes changes to brain morphology visible in MRI, and eventually psychosis.
06:27 adlai I doubted I had that, after reading that it was incredibly uncommon, and was simply hoping that there would be any interesting result other than, "what did you expect, standard brainful of qualia"
06:27 signpost do they do the political psychiatry thing there? sounds like it.
06:28 signpost not that they don't here, but it's comparatively lazy. more like "say the magic word and we'll give you whatever drugs you want, so long as they're expensive"
06:30 adlai varies by doctor. I was focused on getting fewer medications, not more, and they quite quickly respected that request and tapered me off benzos and did not force me to take antipsychotics after I'd been released, although they did prescribe them in case I choose to continue.
06:32 signpost hm. glad you're getting off the shit. good luck.
06:33 * signpost to bed.
06:33 adlai goodnight
06:33 adlai rereading exact wording of Pest, I suppose my suggestion does not violate this, since I'm not suggesting that any specific message trigger printing to the console.
~ 6 hours 25 minutes ~
12:59 shinohai verisimilitude I figured out where the inspiration for the pregnant man emoji came from:
~ 2 hours 44 minutes ~
15:43 mats
~ 1 hours 30 minutes ~
17:14 phf went around looking for lte feature phones, confused sales associates would direct me to cheap androids. i guess not even aging hill folk are buying feature phones anymore
17:14 phf signpost: how you liking mudilo so far?
17:29 signpost was fine except for SMS not working, need to fuck with APN settings but haven't had the chance yet.
17:30 phf hmm
17:30 signpost wouldn't say I can recommend it yet, need to use it for a few weeks consistently.
17:30 phf how's the call quality so far?
17:31 signpost call quality was good, tested that. not as good as an iPhone, but passable.
17:31 signpost wife said same for how I sounded on the other end on her iPhone.
17:32 signpost also found that you can't actually build your own copy of their OS because there's some licensing shit with the eink display binwad.
17:32 signpost that might cause me to sell it and throw play money at some other brick.
17:33 signpost you can only build for their simulator and then "pretty please" have them accept your pull request on github.
17:35 signpost oh and (!) the switch on the side turned out to be software only.
17:35 phf f&g
17:37 signpost yeah, I ordered this quite a while ago, and it's not everything it appeared.
17:38 phf i have a 5s that no longer works for calling because of lte transition. i have no idea what to replace it with
17:39 verisimilitude My *Buffer List* is just a long list of things I've been intending to do for months.
17:39 signpost "pinephone" is way too neckbeardy for me, and pine64's laptop was a piece of shit.
17:40 verisimilitude The Pinebook Pro isn't great, no.
17:40 * signpost is not aware of good options. hardware business is hell.
17:41 verisimilitude That's how my review of it will end, basically.
17:41 verisimilitude ``Go ahead and buy it. More money won't buy a decent laptop.''
17:41 phf i'm thinking of getting one of those oversized rugged phones, that comes with a cb radio and a multitool
17:42 signpost seems useful for stomping around in the woods.
17:42 asciilifeform phf: 'caterpillar' ?
17:42 * asciilifeform saw'em for sale in montevideo, looked impressive -- at least iron-wise
17:42 phf asciilifeform: i think other brands make em besides cat, but yeah along those lines
17:43 phf i don't know how they are as phones, but when i jump out of my lifted ford pickup, i want to be able to talk into one of those on speakerphone
17:44 signpost s'how they know y'mean bidness.
17:44 phf i like maphone how i like mawomen: milspec
17:44 * asciilifeform pictures 'brick' a la 'iridium'
17:45 asciilifeform << damn, disappointing.
17:45 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-20 13:30:54 signpost: also found that you can't actually build your own copy of their OS because there's some licensing shit with the eink display binwad.
17:46 verisimilitude I like my phone how I like my women: I don't own a phone.
17:46 asciilifeform they've a shithub fulla ???, but apparently intel-style one.
17:46 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-07 20:07:56 asciilifeform: a very common flavour of scamsauce, reminiscent of e.g. intel's 'open source bios' (which built only on mswin and w/ 400MB of blobs)
17:46 signpost hahaha
17:46 asciilifeform verisimilitude wins 'brag riches' award...
17:47 signpost asciilifeform: yeah, I haven't gone too deep into it, but immune system says "this looks like a great way to waste weeks for zilch"
17:47 asciilifeform a la 'pinebook' yea
17:48 phf i'm still happily using those rk chromebooks. have like 4 of them, boot them into console, wrote a handful of framebuffer tools (jpg/png/pdf)
17:48 asciilifeform phf: a, so no x11 ?
17:48 phf no
17:49 * asciilifeform still has that one, tho fucked the internal mouse cable during one of over9000 disassemblies
17:49 phf i change the console colors and fonts so that it doesn't look too "hacker", and it gives me ~~9 hours of emacs, sbcl
17:49 asciilifeform notbad
17:49 asciilifeform phf: what didja end up running on that thing ?
17:50 phf your rk gentoo dump, as is
17:50 asciilifeform aa neato
17:50 phf i just patch portage when i need to build something new, that for some reason there's no old source for
17:51 asciilifeform phf: lemme know if you want $tar added to the fossilvault.
17:51 asciilifeform occasionally folx still find missing bits.
17:51 phf there's also no diffs, i log in as root, and there's no logger or really any daemons. i clone it as a big blob. oldschool #slackware gang.
17:52 asciilifeform the rk ball is hand-sewn and deliberately bare-bones
17:54 phf i think i ran into some binary blob issues: i had to rebuild some packages early on, because smh rks that you use in hosting are not the same as the rk in chromebook?
17:54 asciilifeform << grade-a lulz. 'That’s right. Java’s implementation of ECDSA signature verification didn’t check if r or s were zero, so you could produce a signature value in which they are both 0 (appropriately encoded) and Java would accept it as a valid signature for any message and for any public key.'
17:54 dulapbot Logged on 2022-04-20 11:42:29 mats:
17:55 asciilifeform phf: aha, the little rk is a 3328; iirc the cb is a 3399
17:55 phf aah, well that explains it
17:55 asciilifeform theoretically same instr set but fuckknows
17:55 phf it's clean enough to boot, or at least clean enough to build and rebuild
17:55 phf *to boot and rebuild
17:58 verisimilitude Don't implement your own crypto, asciilifeform!
18:01 phf hmm, now that they replaced james bond with a woman how will i know which phone to buy??
18:02 asciilifeform lol thought his 'phone' was a parabellum
18:03 phf asciilifeform: your not aware of the exciting world of "everything you see in a movie somebody has paid for to be there"
18:03 phf e.g.
18:03 asciilifeform distantly aware
18:08 verisimilitude Apparently, in an AppleTV show, the only Android user was a pedophile.
~ 25 minutes ~
18:33 asciilifeform meanwhile in eccism olds.
~ 2 hours 38 minutes ~
21:12 verisimilitude Rather than optimize sorting, it's better to eliminate the need of it.
~ 17 minutes ~
21:29 verisimilitude I'm reading this.
21:29 verisimilitude static uint_fast64_t __seed() {
21:29 verisimilitude // static variable address may be randomized if built with ASLR.
21:29 verisimilitude static char __x;
21:29 verisimilitude return reinterpret_cast<uintptr_t>(&__x);
21:29 verisimilitude }
~ 47 minutes ~
22:17 shinohai "The Treasury department announced sanctions against companies and individuals who enable fiat payments or infrastructure for bitcoin mining in Russia." <<< kekkity kek
22:31 shinohai Forgot sauce, was mobile
~ 18 minutes ~
22:49 phf woof
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