Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2022-02-25 | 2022-02-27 → ↓
02:25 crtdaydreams verisimilitude: wouldn't you just want to have a low level impl. of s-exp wherin you remove the abstraction between symbols and strings?
02:26 crtdaydreams i.e. 'mystring == "mystring"
02:27 crtdaydreams well, that's a poor example, rather '('my 'string) == "my string" or something along those lines
02:27 crtdaydreams In that sense if it were to run on a lisp machine the implementation would in fact be the lowest level.
02:28 verisimilitude Lisp isn't the ultimate abstraction, crtdaydreams.
02:28 verisimilitude However, yes, Elision does resemble symbol interning in some ways.
02:28 verisimilitude I'm going much further, though.
02:29 verisimilitude I'll wait a little bit longer before revealing my solution to that problem, asciilifeform.
02:30 crtdaydreams By no means to I assume that, also I was thinking it's more akin to a hardware impl. of a hash map.
02:31 crtdaydreams But symbol interning makes more sense
02:33 verisimilitude A hash table has O(N) worst time performance, so no.
02:33 crtdaydreams Ofc then you have to deal with conflicting standards like all the different forms of UTF and custom fonts, dictionary extenstions and god-knows what else. I think a fundamentally extensible computer (i.e. a lisp machine with FPGA programmable in macros) would be requisite.
02:33 verisimilitude Elision is based around O(1) time operations.
02:34 crtdaydreams Ah ok.
02:34 verisimilitude Unicode is irrelevant to me.
02:34 verisimilitude Furthermore, one goal is to actually define text, and not treat it as a grab-bag of whatever shit the Unicode Consortium adds to it.
02:35 verisimilitude A later goal is to attack the notion of a fixed character set for all text.
02:35 verisimilitude Why shouldn't I be able to add this symbol to our conversation: http://verisimilitudes.net/crest.png
02:36 verisimilitude Now, it would be one thing if the symbol masters were good, but they're not; observe the vile symbols added for homosexuals and associated illnesses.
02:37 crtdaydreams i would not wish to taint my understand of a "symbol" with that of an emoji charset
02:37 shinohai But verisimilitude we got to be inclusive to all those pregnant men out there.
02:38 verisimilitude Why, we'd precisely the same vile symbol in-mind, shinohai.
02:38 shinohai kek
02:38 crtdaydreams not for long, they'll get an abortion at 24 weeks.
02:39 shinohai http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-24#1080678 <<< so far imma stick with the Latinas and not imprt girls from the Alabama of Eastern Europe.
02:39 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-24 22:52:12 vex: any thing interesting from .ua gals who `went to cornell' yet shinohai? ie camwhores
02:39 verisimilitude These ``emoji'' aren't text, crtdaydreams. Text can be written well by human hands, I'd argue it's monochromatic at the symbol-level, and it can be translated to systems such as braille.
02:40 verisimilitude A blind man should at least be able to feel a textual symbol, but these ``emoji'' fail there as well.
02:41 crtdaydreams hm ok, I get where you're at. I need to broaden my understanding of the current text processing faculties if I were to contribute.
02:42 crtdaydreams i.e. how regex works and similar string manipulation tools. also what exactly constitutes as a string in a low level impl.
02:45 verisimilitude http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-25#1080748 Try to solve this well, crtdaydreams.
02:45 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-25 13:26:38 verisimilitude: Consider the problem of searching from one point to another, forwards or backwards, for the first word beginning with some specified letters. Let me know when to share my solution.
02:45 verisimilitude This is an Elision problem, note.
02:53 crtdaydreams hmm
02:57 crtdaydreams I haven't done the maths for it, but my `solution' would be to have for a textual structure (be it a character, a word, a phrase etc.) that the mem location of each of these structures is stored in a sort of pointer-box. How these structures are identified is another problem. But To find that, the inputs would be the symbol for say a sentence with a search for the characters and there is a marker for what type it is, say a
02:57 crtdaydreams 3-bit marker before each structure. Each structure down to a character is a series of pointers to the lower structures... eh. i'm dumb
02:58 verisimilitude My solution is so simple, but I'm waiting to see if asciilifeform wants to play.
03:00 crtdaydreams can you pm me the solution?
03:04 verisimilitude No; wait for it.
03:05 verisimilitude I'll help, crtdaydreams. So, all words are represented as indices, in a holding structure such as an array, and it's needed to find the first from some point that begins with certain characters. Think about it.
03:11 crtdaydreams whoa wait a minute
03:12 crtdaydreams hmm
03:14 crtdaydreams wait you're telling me that's not how they do it already?
03:15 crtdaydreams so like, consider an array; sentence1 = array[word1, word2, word3]
03:15 verisimilitude What passes for text is commonly stored character-by-character, crtdaydreams.
03:15 crtdaydreams well yes.
03:16 crtdaydreams Of course, but wouldn't you essentially end up with a string of structures.
03:16 crtdaydreams s/string/tree/
03:16 verisimilitude There's some manner of misunderstanding here which I don't care to correct.
03:16 verisimilitude I'll just reveal mine answer now.
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03:16 crtdaydreams ok.
03:16 verisimilitude Get the index of the first possible such word, and of the last possible such word; now the searching is a bounds check on each word, needing no more dictionary access. Searching the auxiliary dictionary would mean just an additional bounds check. Isn't this neat? Certainly, turning a letter problem into an integer problem satisfies this. This is power, turning figurin
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03:16 dulapbot (trilema) 2015-10-31 asciilifeform: one that fits will into the architecture of the machine.
03:20 verisimilitude This works because the dictionary is sorted, and even if it weren't, there could be a transformation table to make it so; thus, other problems can have such tables and use such simple methods.
03:21 crtdaydreams I.. don't get it. Sorry. I'm dumb.
03:22 crtdaydreams waot
03:25 crtdaydreams keyboard cat. sorry.
03:25 verisimilitude Read this.
03:33 crtdaydreams what if you want to process random strings like say an RSA pub key?
03:34 crtdaydreams would you solely be only able to transport such formats in binary?
03:35 verisimilitude Be an RSA public key text or an RSA public key?
03:37 verisimilitude Of course if people insist on using these unnecessary qualities of character-by-character ``text'' then they should store it character-by-character, crtdaydreams.
03:37 verisimilitude Is most text ASCII line-noise or a sequence of words with punctuation?
03:38 crtdaydreams there would be no distinction, no?
03:39 verisimilitude What?
03:39 crtdaydreams Between ASCII line-noise or a sequence of words with no punctuation
03:40 crtdaydreams misread, sorry. but the point remains as above ^
03:40 verisimilitude Elision is designed to store text as a sequence of words, perhaps with punctuation.
03:40 verisimilitude ASCII is designed to store text as a sequence of characters, perhaps with meaning.
03:41 crtdaydreams soisthisawordorasequenceofowordsorasequenceofcharachters?
03:41 verisimilitude That's unnecessary is what it is.
03:42 crtdaydreams of course, but it poses issues when dealing with things like say urls.
03:42 verisimilitude URLs are vile shit.
03:42 verisimilitude When interacting with such things in Elision, a trap door is needed, certainly.
03:42 verisimilitude Most text wouldn't need it.
03:43 verisimilitude Importantly, this trap door would only exist at a message-formatting layer.
03:44 verisimilitude Now sure, crtdaydreams, I can't easily express line-noise in Elision, but ASCII and Unicode can't express concepts to which they haven't explicitly given a symbol; which one is the real issue for humanity?
03:45 crtdaydreams why must you need symbols as apart of a character standard? you could have a seperate symbol standard specifically for that purpose?
03:46 verisimilitude Why does addition deserve + but some new fundamental operation only gets a name? This should be set in stone forever?
03:47 verisimilitude We should have the ability to add symbols ourselves, crtdaydreams.
03:47 verisimilitude Anything less is unacceptable to me.
03:47 crtdaydreams of course, so why not remove those symbols from a charachter standard and put them in a malleable symbol standard
03:47 crtdaydreams s/charachter/character/
03:47 crtdaydreams I'm not myself today. Eugh.
03:48 verisimilitude That's never going to happen with Unicode.
03:48 crtdaydreams Who said anything about using unicode's shitty standard.
03:48 crtdaydreams s/'s/s/ I can't even english today. Great apologies.
03:49 verisimilitude No, that's right.
03:49 crtdaydreams is it? x_x
03:49 verisimilitude I've a secret, crtdaydreams; I think before I hit enter.
03:50 crtdaydreams Yes, I'm in a rather unthoughtful state of mind.
03:51 verisimilitude Unfortunately, this is the current state-of-the-art regarding Elision.
03:53 crtdaydreams This is interesting though, because it poses a problem with symbolic languages. For example Mandarin composed almost entirely of single-symbol words could be represented fluently with the ASCII character-strings.
03:53 crtdaydreams Perhaps the problem lies not within the digital representation of language, but rather our mental representation?
03:54 verisimilitude The digital representation makes a bounded problem seem infinite, so no.
03:55 verisimilitude Elision recognizes that we use fewer than, say, sixteen million words in one language.
03:55 verisimilitude We can bind the problem, and then certain issues are conquered immediately.
03:55 crtdaydreams Of course this has it's quirks, there is no room for evolution (nor devolution) in a purely symbolic language, so you'll never have to change the standard as no new words will be added or removed. Of course this also means your thinking is now heavily limited by the number of words you have in your language.
03:56 verisimilitude The auxiliary dictionary exists for this.
03:57 verisimilitude However, is a document with more made-up words than standard words really written in that language? I think not so.
03:57 crtdaydreams In a language like Mandarin would you have any made-up words as they are not built from letters but symbols?
04:01 crtdaydreams The representation of text should not impede the users way of conveying their thoughts to a computer. This means if a user should want to type askjdnfajsd, why should they not be permitted to do so?
04:03 verisimilitude This is already an issue with Chinese, crtdaydreams, because of the inflexibility.
04:03 crtdaydreams Of course your system would permit it, but in time would it not be just another layer of added complexity?
04:04 verisimilitude If someone wants to write on the wall with shit, he may, but I'll use ink and paper.
04:04 verisimilitude I want tools that help how I write, crtdaydreams.
04:04 crtdaydreams I know. The limitations imposed on thought by a language like Mandarin are not ignorable no.
04:05 verisimilitude It exists for me before anyone else.
04:05 verisimilitude I don't like how idiots warp English now.
04:06 verisimilitude First we get a hashtag ``MeToo'' and then it ``becomes'' a verb and people get ``MeToo'd'' and it's sickening.
04:06 crtdaydreams Would have said the same for Shakepeare in the 16th century?
04:07 crtdaydreams s/Would/Would you/
04:08 crtdaydreams Don't worry I understand your frustration with the devolution of language, but constricting the evolution as a side-effect isn't worth it.
04:08 crtdaydreams Besides, those who are devolving are simply a loud minority.
04:09 verisimilitude How does Elision constrict it?
04:09 verisimilitude It's been designed not to do this.
04:09 verisimilitude The ability to make words is present.
04:10 verisimilitude It adds structure.
04:10 crtdaydreams I understand, but the need to update those words into an auxiliary dictionary and so-on and so forth in the name of optimization seems like over-engineering.
04:11 verisimilitude Rather, it recognizes structure.
04:11 verisimilitude No, Unicode is over-engineering.
04:11 crtdaydreams ^ I don't disagree.
04:12 verisimilitude It's similar to how I don't like programming by entering text into a file.
04:12 verisimilitude How do I write machine code, crtdaydreams?
04:13 crtdaydreams I don't know, how do you?
04:13 verisimilitude This is how I write machine code.
04:14 verisimilitude I use this.
04:14 verisimilitude Those who think an assembler necessary will never create such things.
04:15 crtdaydreams ah the MMC one of the first articles I viewed on your site
04:16 crtdaydreams I'd almost forgotten about it, It's been a long while since I read it.
04:17 crtdaydreams Perhaps you're wasting your time talking to me then. It's evident you're far beyond a skill level I could hope to achieve.
04:19 verisimilitude Make a website and make something of which to be proud, crtdaydreams.
04:20 crtdaydreams Router firmware is being a cunt, I physically cannot port forward to my domain.
04:21 verisimilitude Rent a server, as I do.
04:22 crtdaydreams I would, besides I have a chronic fear of getting pwned.
04:23 verisimilitude My first article was a masturbation joke; just write something decent, crtdaydreams.
04:24 crtdaydreams I have naught the way with words. I'd just be making a bigger fool of myself.
04:26 crtdaydreams Enough internet for one day.
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13:16 * d4 is amused fun looking at cryptonomicon
13:16 d4 s/fun//
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14:41 mats see, buying the invasion would have been a solid play
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14:44 shinohai $vwap
14:44 busybot The 24-Hour VWAP for BTC is $ 39142.77 USD
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15:34 asciilifeform ... cement testbed at 472+k.
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16:23 shinohai thimbronion: 9982 pressed fine, am fiddling with knobs and will try to connect shortly.
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16:41 billymg cgra: very cool. i think something like that would be useful if built-in to mp-wp (not for you perhaps, since you've already rolled your own, but for others in the future). something that one could point to a directory containing patches organized by vtree and have it auto-generate more or less what you have on your www
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16:42 billymg cgra: btw, how do you feel about the less-enormous pile of '???' after using it for a few months?
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16:44 billymg part of me still would like to make something out of it, but it's hard to motivate myself to work on something no one really cares about
16:45 billymg seems that most who use mp-wp, myself included even, do so because in the mp era it was declared the standard and because it works
16:47 billymg looking at the php internals is so off putting i can see why no one *likes* using it
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18:24 verisimilitude Besides comments, why use it at all, billymg?
18:38 billymg verisimilitude: because i don't know what else to use instead, any suggestions? (yes, comment system would be a requirement)
18:41 verisimilitude I just write everything by hand, and don't yet have an automatic comments system, so no.
18:42 verisimilitude Someone less allergic to other software could probably just use a comments system from elsewhere for that, though.
18:42 cgra http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1080979 << can't say i'm too familiar with the php stack so thought i'd use that name :) but overall, i fell back to the tinymce approach (knitted together a localhost "wysiwyg" editor hack), because couldn't stand hand-cranking that many trb links and code tags as i did. another thing is not sure yet why couldn't i access the admin page through ssh-forwarded port, intending to give it
18:42 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-26 11:42:34 billymg: cgra: btw, how do you feel about the less-enormous pile of '???' after using it for a few months?
18:42 cgra an another look sometime
18:43 verisimilitude This would be easy for a website such as mine, in which the comments are on other pages.
18:58 cgra http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1080978 << as these are static pages, they don't need a server-side generator. perhaps only something for highlight-linking, say, multi-line highlights at minimum.
18:58 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-26 11:40:51 billymg: cgra: very cool. i think something like that would be useful if built-in to mp-wp (not for you perhaps, since you've already rolled your own, but for others in the future). something that one could point to a directory containing patches organized by vtree and have it auto-generate more or less what you have on your www
18:58 billymg verisimilitude: i like the sidebar that updates based on content as well, and that archive and category pages are generated automatically, and that it's all searchable
19:01 billymg cgra: i hate using wysiwyg editors because they tend to spit out very ugly html with inline styles everywhere, but i have come to appreciate the select text -> ctrl-k scheme for generating links used in some editors
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19:01 verisimilitude Well, that would require much more work, yes.
19:01 cgra billymg: oh, and one minor detail: personally i would find yearly archive grouping more suitable myself than monthly. and anyone else with 0-2 articles/month :)
19:02 verisimilitude Internet speeds are so great, I put everything on one page, not that it's large anyway.
19:02 billymg cgra: i agree it's a pain hand-editing though
19:02 billymg cgra: heh, good point
19:03 billymg how would you feel about a box that ate markdown instead of html?
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19:04 billymg that could at least be configured to spit out clean html, which you then style manually with css, and doesn't require a JS textbox
19:06 cgra http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1080994 << i had the same feeling from the earlier usage, but see for example my latest, look for 'storycontent', and it's pretty alright wysiwyg output
19:06 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-26 14:01:02 billymg: cgra: i hate using wysiwyg editors because they tend to spit out very ugly html with inline styles everywhere, but i have come to appreciate the select text -> ctrl-k scheme for generating links used in some editors
19:07 billymg cgra: ah, yeah, very clean
19:11 cgra http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1081000 << atm the hack i have, works reasonably well, so it's now sunk somewhat low in priority to think of a better replacement
19:11 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-26 14:03:23 billymg: how would you feel about a box that ate markdown instead of html?
19:13 cgra if i had to guess though, long link texts might still throw your concentration annoyingly off from actual writing
19:14 cgra ah, but i'm already adding links as a last, separate step, so may not apply
19:15 billymg cgra: re: the code viewer, i was thinking of server side vpressing, i think like what whaack describes here but only for what the blog owner puts there
19:15 bitbot Logged on 2022-02-19 15:53:16 whaack: http://btcbase.org/patches <-- phf are you around? this is a great tool. i think that updating this site shoul be made automatic. there should be a way to submit a vpatch , and if it has a sig from the host's l1, then the vpatch is automatically submitted and the version graph is automatically updated
19:17 billymg cgra: i also do that, i wrap the words i want to link in [] and come back to it at the end
19:21 cgra i'm not sure if vpatch volume is high enough that it needed server-side automation, while phf's chart certainly is neat
19:22 billymg also a fair point
19:23 cgra ah and if blog owner puts it there anyway, not his l1, what's the difference if the html generator runs on his desktop?
19:23 billymg yes, true
19:29 billymg you're right, it could be a separate set of tools that one runs locally, then uploads to some directory on their server. doesn't need to be stored anywhere in the mp-wp db
19:33 cgra billymg: gives you more choice in picking your favourite sewing needle. and even if pages are stored in the db, prolly still applies. if wanted multi-line code highlight, then you'd likely best off with a minimal mpwp tweak on top of that
19:40 billymg i think i'm trying to solve problems for users that i imagine exist but don't actually. as in, turn v into something like github so that "anyone can use it". but who is this "anyone" that would select v over git in the first place, and what would they do with it?
19:40 bitbot (trilema) 2016-01-18 ascii_butugychag: btw i hope everybody understands that life with 'v' is always going to resemble dark age blood sports like cvs, etc. far more than modern greased poles (e.g., 'git')
19:41 verisimilitude I'll eventually choose V over git, but I wouldn't use vhub.
19:44 billymg verisimilitude: exactly
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21:08 signpost what's needed is a decentralized mechanism where I can say "give me the vpatch which yields the antecedent I need for $hash"
21:08 signpost not a centralized item.
21:09 signpost http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1080973 << every major market collapse has bull traps the whole way down. are you telling me you know how high they'll bounce?
21:09 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-26 09:41:32 mats: see, buying the invasion would have been a solid play
21:10 signpost swing trade, sure, but you're speaking in finbro memethought
21:11 verisimilitude That almost seems like Bittorrent, signpost.
21:11 signpost couple of things wrong with bittorrent, but it's not a terrible analogy.
21:12 signpost relies on centralized "bootstrap" nodes even for "trackerless" torrents, for example.
21:13 signpost all peers being equal is another problem.
21:14 verisimilitude If I were to remark on how asciilifeform has educated me in three ways, I'd note random number generation, flaws with the Internet, and a good attitude to have on computing in general. Be there truly no good way to send a large packet without fragmentation through the Internet, asciilifeform; it must require splitting it into chunks somehow?
21:15 verisimilitude Doesn't the DHT mechanism only require knowing of any node, similarly to DNS, signpost?
21:15 signpost there is a "don't fragment" flag in the IP header, but admittedly I am not an expert on how it's handled.
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21:16 signpost naively, I'd expect that DF header set, plus MTU discovery by increasing packet size, plus a signal back from the far end, would tell you how large you can go
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21:16 signpost perhaps this DF field is ignored somewhere along the way
21:17 signpost verisimilitude: I believe the clients carry along their own bootstrap nodes hard-coded, though perhaps some of them allow configuration
21:17 verisimilitude That flag can result in an ICMP error response, signpost.
21:17 signpost right, that tells you the maximum transmission unit, when you get an error, right?
21:17 verisimilitude I don't recall.
21:18 verisimilitude The reason Pest uses its size is because that's the minimum transmission unit.
21:18 verisimilitude Still, that's too small for many interesting protocols.
21:18 signpost yeah, it puts a limit on the rateless code for example
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21:19 signpost gets much slower with smaller block sizes.
21:19 signpost though there is likely lots of room for optimization in my implementation, and even without it was doing a few megabytes per second on one core
21:21 verisimilitude For something in the future, I'd prefer to be able to use packets at least a few kibibytes in size.
21:22 verisimilitude IP fragmentation was easy to ignore in the IETF RFC, but it's clearly broken after asciilifeform explained the issues.
21:22 signpost I provided a knob in mine.
21:22 signpost yeah curious to hear from asciilifeform why one can't use MTU discovery with don't-frag
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21:22 * signpost will be entirely unsurprised if there's a good reason
21:24 verisimilitude I'd recognized by myself why the top secret security clearance IP header feature was stupid, but not fragmentation.
21:26 verisimilitude Another thing about the Internet is how it's really not designed for anything but messages. It can't really provide a stream like the telephone network could, because the telephone network effectively established a physical line. A packet-switching network could do this, by reserving buffers and establishing a chain of reserved buffers, but this would need some way to restrict the reservation to avoid issues, such as identificati
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21:26 signpost reasoning through it, one reason higher MTU might be dangerous is allowing the enemy to cause you to rediscover MTU, say by changing routes on you, or whatever else.
21:28 signpost I could still see reason to opportunistically blast bits at a peer as fast as one can in certain cases.
21:29 signpost not with pest packets, no need, but for things which can degrade with less harm.
21:30 signpost mats: what do you make of the increased s&p put volume since last year, for example?
21:31 signpost "hedges only cost money bro!"
21:31 signpost and I'm not beating you up here, just having the thread.
21:31 signpost one place I've been looking is commodities. they appear to have done pretty well after the other recent large crashes.
21:32 signpost I know next to nothing about investing in commidities, so I'm just saying I'm reading about it, not giving advice.
21:33 verisimilitude Why not learn how to count cards and visit the casinos instead, signpost?
21:35 signpost because casinos are for taxing the poor, and capital markets are for taxing the rich, of course.
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21:35 * signpost chuckles
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21:56 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1081033 << 'don't frag' simply means 'drop rather than frag' ftr.
21:56 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-26 16:15:33 signpost: there is a "don't fragment" flag in the IP header, but admittedly I am not an expert on how it's handled.
21:57 asciilifeform i.e. will get dropped if somewhere along transit sumbody would've have normally fragged it
21:58 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1081034 << this'd work if could assume that it'll always traverse same route. which often enuff aint the case (even if neither yer own station nor the other side's is on a moving train etc)
21:58 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-26 16:15:58 signpost: naively, I'd expect that DF header set, plus MTU discovery by increasing packet size, plus a signal back from the far end, would tell you how large you can go
21:59 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1081042 << well if yer using luby, turbo, etc. can set it up so some % of the packets are 'fat', but will still converge if these dun make it to other side, cuz redundancy
21:59 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-26 16:18:31 signpost: yeah, it puts a limit on the rateless code for example
21:59 asciilifeform ... simply will take longer.
21:59 signpost yep yep
22:00 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1081048 << see above
22:00 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-26 16:22:18 signpost: yeah curious to hear from asciilifeform why one can't use MTU discovery with don't-frag
22:00 signpost ended up reasoning out the "MTU ain't fixed for all time, stupid" matter slightly farther on
22:01 asciilifeform if the dice fall a certain way, you can indeed reliably send/receive 'obese' packets. problem is, can't know apriori, and can't rely on the dice to fall thusly
22:02 asciilifeform the other thing, afaik we dun currently have 'don't reassemble' turned on anywhere, so can't even reliably test (atm you'll see 'obese' packets go through as if they actually had, whereas what actually happens is that os reassembles, and this is a ddosable mechanism , cuz frags aint signed )
22:03 signpost sounds like best move is to pack several check blocks of min-UDP size into the fatties, such that they can be used with the smaller ones.
22:03 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1081061 << capital markets still for (indirectly, via pension scams etc) 'taxing the poor' lol
22:03 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-26 16:34:56 signpost: because casinos are for taxing the poor, and capital markets are for taxing the rich, of course.
22:04 asciilifeform signpost: well several luby quanta at any rate
22:04 signpost right
22:04 signpost if they arrive, hooray, maybe they unlock a few xor chains of data for ya. if not, just wait longer for enough tinies.
22:04 asciilifeform aaha
22:05 signpost one'd have to reason about making sure you're not biasing parts of the distribution into fat dispatches too
22:05 signpost such that you're harming the rate at which the tinies converge.
22:06 asciilifeform http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1081051 << you dun have control over latency at any juncture, important to note. (in olden days existed e.g. 'frame relay' where in fact reserved timeslots. but we dun have this on general-purpose internet)
22:06 dulapbot Logged on 2022-02-26 16:25:58 verisimilitude: Another thing about the Internet is how it's really not designed for anything but messages. It can't really provide a stream like the telephone network could, because the telephone network effectively established a physical line. A packet-switching network could do this, by reserving buffers and establishing a chain of reserved buffers, but this would need some way to restrict the reservation to avoid i
22:07 asciilifeform i.e. you can't actually emulate circuit switching over a packet network, any moar than you can 'push a rope'
22:08 * asciilifeform must bbl, very short on time, but hopefully answered basic q.
22:08 signpost appreciate it, take care
22:11 verisimilitude Well, what I described assumed the packet-switching network could make guarantees, but this requires each switcher to communicate with each other; it doesn't apply to the Internet, no.
22:13 verisimilitude Here's a fun fact, asciilifeform, I came across ``a priori'' not long ago, and realized it was wrong; the Ā PRIŌRĪ is dative, whereas Ā requires an ablative; the correct form is actually Ā PRIŌRE. Isn't that neat?
22:16 verisimilitude I don't believe the creators of the Internet would've cheered letting the telephone system literally rot to be replaced by it.
~ 38 minutes ~
22:55 mats signpost: people seeing frothiness and subsequently hedging, but also a general rise in options contracts vol due to retail shmucks
22:57 mats hard to find think of anything novel or interesting to say about something so broad
23:10 signpost so help me see the difference between your permabull comments and what was said before and during any previous major crash?
23:13 signpost https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-labor-force-participation-rate.htm << seems like the demo with peloton subscription money is dwindling.
23:15 signpost https://app.koyfin.com/cmty << gotta explain why the inputs to manufacturing and food skyrocketing are actually good, too.
23:16 signpost at the very least, they compress profit margins, assuming companies can eat the higher input costs. so then you have to explain why P/E will increase forever, rather than mean-revert.
23:17 * signpost is hearing quite a lot of "hopeless if true, so can't be so" from meatwot. reality doesn't care.
23:20 billymg "if true" meaning if market crashes?
23:20 signpost take it as broadly as you like.
23:25 billymg well doesn't "crash" mean relative to USD? so if you're
23:25 signpost s&p is already down about 10%; that's not froth.
23:25 billymg sorry, ...if you're "bearish" you're actually bullish on USD
23:26 billymg hard for me to be bullish on USD these days
23:26 billymg seeing as how the collective west is trying to win a war against russia by #cancelling putin
23:26 signpost billymg: I mean, the central bank definitely can yank enough liquidity out of the system to crash both assets and prices of whatever slop is left on the grocery shelves.
23:29 verisimilitude Putin will buckle any day now; he can't just ignore criticism.
23:31 signpost verisimilitude: you know, "unprecedented" may be the most american of the adjectives.
↖
23:31 verisimilitude I see countless people on Twitter, Reddit, and Hacker News looking to bring Putin to heel.
23:31 verisimilitude He's just like Voldemort, as we know.
23:31 billymg verisimilitude: you had me there for a second, thought you were being serious
23:31 signpost hahaha, me as well.
23:35 signpost billymg: https://app.koyfin.com/share/4eb13db5fc << "this time is different"
23:36 signpost then later they'll say "unprecedented drop in equities!"
23:36 signpost "unprecedented inflation/supply-chain issues/shortages"
23:36 billymg would be lulzy if equities drop and btc moons
23:37 signpost btc seems pretty vulnerable to the money printer mid-cycle
23:37 billymg so they can queue up the "holders are literally terrorists" headlines
23:37 signpost but '24 is not too far away.
23:37 signpost yeah, I'm glad I have no BTC.
23:37 billymg yeah, same
23:41 shinohai verisimilitude: Here's how the West will defeat totalitarians like Putin: http://btc.info.gf/uploads/TROONS1.png
23:41 signpost oof
23:43 billymg lol, are shinohai and i the only ones here who browse the shitposts on 4chan for entertainment?
23:43 mats i wouldn't characterise what i said as permabull
23:43 shinohai Only worx if you use 4chan-X
23:44 billymg shinohai: what's that?
23:44 verisimilitude Oh, I'm not the only imageboard user here?
23:44 shinohai billymg: It's a userscript for tampermonkey that let's you filter bait posts, expand images, etc.
23:45 billymg shinohai: ah, neat, will have to check it out
23:45 mats moreover, plenty of people have been predicting crashes for years, while losing money for years, like einhorn
23:46 mats its very edgy and drives clicks, but unless you're einhorn and putting money where your mouth is, it rings hollow
23:46 verisimilitude So, be either of you users of 4chan's /pol/, billymg and shinohai?
23:47 signpost mats: I gave an alternative to btfd in stocks.
23:47 signpost will gladly eat my hat right here if it eats shit.
23:48 shinohai billymg: https://www.4chan-x.net/builds/4chan-X.user.js
23:48 shinohai verisimilitude: occasionally browse it when bored.
23:48 verisimilitude I'm just wondering if either of you be ``election tourists''.
23:49 mats i bought the bitcorns and don't invest in equities, except i guess the few low four digit index fund accounts over the years, but i don't think it'll be immune to crashes, they are risk-on assets
23:49 signpost yeah, agreed. bitcoin will have a near-term crash if the rest crashes.
23:49 mats there have been so many crashes i stopped counting
23:49 billymg verisimilitude: yeah, i load the catalog now and then when i'm bored
23:49 verisimilitude I no longer use 4chan much, but it's how I wound up here. I seem to recall seeing Loper-OS around a decade ago on 4chan's /g/, and reading it over the years.
23:50 verisimilitude There are much better imageboards, however.
23:50 mats pton's free cash flow numbers are very good, from what i remember in their last report
23:50 shinohai /g/ is about the only sane board left. /b/ generally gets filtered to single page
23:50 signpost mats: just looks like an exemplar of "luxury good"
23:51 signpost maybe the techtard class is large enough for them to sustain it.
23:51 verisimilitude That board was garbage back when I still used it, shinohai.
23:51 mats same thing with resto hardware, its a veblen good and will resist declines during a prolonged market rout better than most
23:51 shinohai Well to be fair, it's *always* been garbage.
23:51 signpost mats: yeah, quite agree that e.g. Square is a good company.
23:51 mats veblen makers are a decent inflation and rising inequality hedge
23:52 verisimilitude It's been mentioned before, but care for a link to a decent imageboard?
23:52 * signpost considered going there after last $megacorp job, but farting around with own projects for a bit first.
23:52 signpost my last company was restaurant online ordering, started right after 08-09 crash, was timed well.
23:52 signpost that industry churns over continuously.
23:53 mats is anyone earning money yet
23:53 mats i haven't watched that segment at all, but i noticed uber only recently turned a profit
23:53 signpost we did fine, but we were tiny, and didn't touch fulfillment, just facilitated it with other providers
23:53 mats after losing uncountable billions for, like, a solid decade
23:54 verisimilitude If only I'd the opportunity to lose billions of US dollars.
23:56 mats https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/UBER/uber-technologies/net-income-loss k e k
23:57 signpost cash incinerator
23:57 signpost and they can't stop, because the driver incentives are the only way to keep capacity
23:57 signpost delivery sucks; I would never touch it
23:57 verisimilitude I've been in awe at the behaviour these companies have inspired.
23:58 verisimilitude ``Noooooo, I can't talk to a person on the phone to order my food, I have anxiety, noooo!''
23:59 mats there were a lot of these in taipei, food couriered around by kids on mopeds
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